T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Thursday,
November 16, 2000, commencing at approximately
9:10 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
3
November 16, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 5
3 For Information Only 5
4 Status Report 8
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 18
2 Approved 18
3 Deferred 19
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 20
2 Approved 21
3 Approved 34
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
(Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 37
2 Approved 37
3 Approved 47
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by James A. Zingale, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 52
2 Status Report 52
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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November 16, 2000
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 62
2 Approved 62
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 65
Second
Substitute 2 Approved 67
3 Approved 68
Second
Substitute 4 Approved 101
Substitute
Additional 5 Approved 106
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 108
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5
November 16, 2000
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:20 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom Herndon, State Board of
4 Administration.
5 MR. HERNDON: Good morning, Governor,
6 members.
7 Item Number 1 on the agenda is approval of
8 the minutes of the meeting held October 24th,
9 2000.
10 TREASURER NELSON: I move the minutes.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
15 a fiscal sufficiency not exceeding thirty-two
16 million two hundred thousand dollar State of
17 Florida, Board of Regents, University of
18 Central Florida Housing Revenue Bond, series to
19 be determined.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 2.
21 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is provided for
25 your information, Governor, and members of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6
November 16, 2000
1 the -- of the Board.
2 It is what we're characterizing as the
3 product design, if you will, for the actively
4 managed funds that were identified earlier in
5 the Investment Policy Statement. We provided
6 you with a lot of detail from our consulting
7 firm, Callan and Associates.
8 But basically what we wanted to just simply
9 describe was the thought process behind how we
10 might select investment providers for some of
11 these institutional products, what the
12 line-up -- physical line-up might look like.
13 In this respect, it's very analogous to the
14 kind of selection line-up that we go through on
15 the DB side of things. When we have a large
16 cap growth manager, for example, that provides
17 services to the pension fund, we might have two
18 or three, depending on the capacity
19 requirements, depending on liquidity
20 requirements, depending on manager risk, style
21 risk, and so on, and so forth.
22 Now, we have taken this information from
23 Callan, scrubbed it down ourselves, run it
24 through our internal working committees that
25 are made up of representatives from your
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7
November 16, 2000
1 offices, and from the County associations,
2 School Board Association, and so forth.
3 And we will also be sharing this
4 information in a formal setting with the
5 Investment Advisory Council, and the PEORP
6 Advisory Council on the 29th of this month when
7 they meet for a joint meeting.
8 Thus far, there's certainly been no
9 disagreement with this line-up. But I wanted
10 you to have an opportunity to see it formally,
11 and also to make it clear that this is a work
12 in progress.
13 We may find when we get to the point of
14 actually getting enrollment reality in front of
15 us, that we don't need some of the managers
16 that we propose to hire for some of the
17 investment products.
18 It's at this point largely speculative,
19 based on the forecasts of how much money will
20 be spun off for some of these products.
21 And as you know, all that we have to rely
22 on are various actuarial estimates at this
23 point. So we've indicated in the line-up that
24 we have that while we might identify,
25 for example, two small cap growth managers, we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8
November 16, 2000
1 may find when we start to see the actual
2 enrollment statistics, that we only need to
3 have one of those under contract. But we'll
4 have two of them ready and preselected and
5 ready to go.
6 So that's the thought process behind this
7 product design architecture.
8 Item Number 4 -- I mean, if there are any
9 questions, I'm certainly happy to answer
10 them --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
13 MR. HERNDON: -- but --
14 Item Number 4 is our fourth in a series of
15 implementation status reports on the
16 defined contribution program.
17 And, Governor, and members, with your
18 permission, I thought I might spend a minute
19 and talk about this. There has been a lot of
20 activity. Overall, our progress has been very
21 good. We've moved along essentially on all
22 fronts.
23 And I thought it might be worthwhile to
24 just touch on a couple of those that don't
25 quite come through when you read the dry -- the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 9
November 16, 2000
1 dry facts.
2 And this is not in any particular order.
3 But working from the standpoint of asset
4 transition, how we move the money from the
5 DB plan to the DC plan, we had our first rule
6 hearing on proposed rules on asset transition
7 this week. We had some good suggestions.
8 We have a draft of the RFI for a transition
9 broker that's currently being circulated in the
10 staff for review. Hope to have that out in the
11 course of the next couple of weeks.
12 We'll obviously take that in front of the
13 Advisory Council, and so forth, also on the
14 29th.
15 We should get the additional actuarial
16 estimates from Mercer and from
17 Milliman & Roberts this week. So we'll have
18 three different actuarial estimates of the
19 likely amounts of money that we're
20 transferring.
21 Those really formed the cornerstone of an
22 awful lot of the later work that we're doing in
23 terms of the number of managers that we hire;
24 the kind of transition planning that we do; the
25 education program that we design, its scope,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 10
November 16, 2000
1 its scale, and so forth.
2 So all of that information is coming
3 together. And we're on track to have that
4 transition broker in place shortly after the
5 first of the year.
6 The first product that actually hit the
7 street was an RFI for a third party
8 administrator for a record keeper. We had over
9 100-page RFI that was released. It was all out
10 on the web.
11 That product I think was by-in-large well
12 received by the industry. We had slightly over
13 100 questions that were sent back to us to
14 answer. We answered all of those questions.
15 And at that point, two protests were filed to
16 that RFI, and the solicitation process has
17 halted per the statute.
18 Now, the vendors out there who were in the
19 process of preparing their response to that RFI
20 are free to continue to do whatever they wish
21 to do in the way of preparation.
22 But actually submitting their bids, or our
23 evaluating their bids, or anything like that,
24 is -- is halted until this particular DOAH
25 hearing is resolved.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11
November 16, 2000
1 We will go before DOAH next week with some
2 responses to the protests, ask for expedited
3 hearings.
4 I might add, by -- by the way, too, that we
5 met with both of the protesting parties before
6 they filed their protests -- or before their
7 protests were -- were official, to see if there
8 was any way that we could mitigate their
9 concerns. They -- did not prove to be
10 possible.
11 But we are also planning on scheduling some
12 additional meetings the first part of next week
13 before we filed our responses to see if we can
14 mitigate some of their concerns.
15 So --
16 Yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm a little confused about
18 the protests for -- I would have thought that
19 the protest would have been on the next
20 Request for Proposal, or --
21 MR. HERNDON: Right.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Request for Information,
23 not this one.
24 Why -- why -- if -- if these entities that
25 are protesting are not going to bid on the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 12
November 16, 2000
1 third party administrator work, why are they
2 protesting it?
3 MR. HERNDON: I'm a little reluctant to put
4 myself in their shoes. But if you'll accept
5 for the moment that this is --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Speculate.
7 MR. HERNDON: -- a little speculative on my
8 part, my impression is that they believe that
9 the RFI, as currently drafted, precludes them
10 from bidding as they might like for subsequent
11 work, since it is, in their view, not
12 consistent with their bundled strategy.
13 And that's -- I think --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: But the law's pretty clear,
15 isn't it, that there's a third party
16 administrator, and then there are the
17 investment options.
18 MR. HERNDON: That's certainly our
19 position, Governor. And we've tried to
20 maintain that position pretty consistently
21 throughout, that the law says there shall be
22 one third party record keeper, that you cannot
23 be a record keeper and be an investment
24 provider, that you cannot be an investment
25 provider and be an educator.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 13
November 16, 2000
1 I mean, we think it's pretty clear.
2 But perhaps there's a way that -- that the
3 courts can --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you -- is the RFI
5 defining the third party administrator in such
6 broad terms that -- is that the possibility
7 where -- is that the -- where there could be a
8 disagreement?
9 MR. HERNDON: Well, we -- we've tried to
10 indicate that -- that there are some
11 administrative functions that we would
12 anticipate that the bundled provider needs to
13 perform, and -- and has to perform, but it
14 wouldn't be the full panoply of services that a
15 central record keeper would perform.
16 I'm not sure that that's satisfactory. At
17 least my impression is from their point of
18 view, it's not.
19 So that's where we are.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Senator, any questions?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Just a quick
22 question, Governor, on -- on impact on the
23 program, Tom.
24 MR. HERNDON: Right now we're okay because
25 we had not anticipated receiving back the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 14
November 16, 2000
1 responses to the RFI until the 21st of this
2 month. We've still got that period of time
3 that the vendors can continue to prepare their
4 responses.
5 If the judicial process drags on
6 indefinitely, then clearly our ability to meet
7 our deadlines and provide the kind of
8 infrastructure that you have to have is
9 compromised.
10 What we've told the vendor community is,
11 this Court process does build in some delays.
12 It inures to your benefit in the sense that it
13 gives you more time to actually prepare your
14 response.
15 So once the Court answers these questions,
16 we will call for those responses immediately;
17 basically, you won't get 30 more days, or
18 60 more days.
19 Whether or not that adds a month or -- or
20 two, I -- I don't know. At this point, I --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So it's too early to
22 tell. But it could have a significant impact
23 on the dates that have been set by the
24 Legislature.
25 MR. HERNDON: It certainly could.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 15
November 16, 2000
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
2 MR. HERNDON: And -- and that's a distinct
3 possibility that we're very mindful of.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
5 MR. HERNDON: And part of the reason, I
6 might add, why we're trying to move forward on
7 as many other fronts as we can concurrently.
8 And on that point, let me just say, on
9 the -- on the education program, we've
10 successfully completed our search for a media
11 consultant, hired a firm out of New York.
12 We have an education RFI that was -- the
13 responses were due back on Tuesday afternoon.
14 We got a very good set of responses, over
15 21 firms responded. Some of the biggest
16 national and international media firms in the
17 country have responded. We feel very pleased
18 with that -- with that work.
19 Product design you saw this morning. We'll
20 be taking the selection -- proposed selection
21 and evaluation criteria for the investment
22 managers to the Advisory Council on the 29th;
23 and then later on, to you in December. That's
24 moving forward very satisfactorily.
25 The final point, of course, is the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 16
November 16, 2000
1 Investment Policy Statement which, I think,
2 Governor, as -- as you were kind of pointing
3 out, is kind of the -- the origin of an awful
4 lot of what is now taking place.
5 The deadline for protests is the 27th of
6 this month. We anticipate a protest. We've
7 been told that it will be protested. We'll see
8 if that, in fact, occurs.
9 We would hope, and -- and certainly
10 anticipate that any protests on that, and on
11 the third party administrator, are essentially
12 the same. I mean, they're making the same
13 arguments. And perhaps they can be
14 consolidated --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: But these --
16 MR. HERNDON: -- and expedited.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- will it be seen by the
18 same judge?
19 MR. HERNDON: That I -- I -- I don't know,
20 Governor. I -- I don't know that that's
21 necessarily the way DOAH would work.
22 But we, I think, are interested in trying
23 to have these pleadings consolidated, because
24 I think they go to the same set of issues.
25 So --
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November 16, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
2 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Tom.
4 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
5 was concluded.)
6 * * *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 18
November 16, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 1 is approval of
3 the minutes of the October 24th meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 2 is approval of
9 a resolution authorizing the competitive sale
10 of up to 32.2 million dollars of Board of
11 Regents Revenue Bonds for construction of a
12 dormitory for University of Central Florida.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move to --
18 MR. WATKINS: I'd like to --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- defer Item 3.
20 MR. WATKINS: Excuse me?
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd move to defer
22 Item 3.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's what you wanted --
25 MR. WATKINS: Yes.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 19
November 16, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- isn't it?
2 MR. WATKINS: I'd like a deferral of
3 Item 3.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer and second.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. WATKINS: Very good.
7 Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
10 concluded.)
11 * * *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 20
November 16, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 Commissioner.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on --
5 MR. MOORE: Good morning, Governor --
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- minutes.
7 MR. MOORE: -- Cabinet.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second on
10 the minutes.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 Treasurer Gallagher's in a hurry.
14 MR. MOORE: I gathered as much.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Board of Regents
16 meeting down in Miami. Big stuff going on.
17 I've got to get to it.
18 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 2 is the
19 quarterly report for the Department for the
20 year of -- first quarter of July 1 fiscal year.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 MR. MOORE: Could I --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 21
November 16, 2000
1 MR. MOORE: -- could I mention a -- a
2 program there, Governor, that I'm real proud
3 of?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I -- can we -- can we
5 move and second it?
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Yes, you can.
8 MR. MOORE: Thank you, sir.
9 This past quarter, we launched something
10 called Operation THUGS, taking hoodlums who use
11 guns seriously here in Florida, targeting some
12 254 --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you remember what the
14 acronym stands for?
15 MR. MOORE: Taking Hoodlums Who Use Guns
16 Seriously.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
18 MR. MOORE: Very seriously.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's one of my favorites.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That one's okay?
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I thought you
22 didn't like them.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: THUGS.
24 MR. MOORE: We identified 251 violent
25 felony fugitives who had between them over
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November 16, 2000
1 5,000 arrests. They had outstanding warrants
2 for a violent felony offense in Florida.
3 And the other commonality they had, they'd
4 all used a firearm during the commission of
5 their crime.
6 To date, we've captured 56 of those thugs,
7 and they're now back in jail where they belong.
8 We used technology to do that. We went on the
9 Internet and -- and put the pictures of those
10 thugs in every city that -- where the warrant
11 had been issued.
12 And we went a step further and offered
13 $1,000 reward to the public if they'd help us
14 find those individuals and -- and get them
15 arrested.
16 Success there is -- it's continuing to
17 improve, and we're staying focused on that
18 target. The 54 we captured had over
19 1500 arrests between them.
20 Now, that's more arrests than 19 of our
21 counties had individually in the calendar year
22 1999. So it was, indeed, a -- a crime wave
23 there, those -- those 54.
24 Programs like that, Governor, and members
25 of the Cabinet, is why I think we're seeing
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 23
November 16, 2000
1 this 20 percent reduction in gun related
2 violence in Florida that we saw the first full
3 year of 10-20-Life here since it was passed.
4 So I'm encouraged by that.
5 And following your direction, we're going
6 to continue targeting on these individuals in
7 the state of Florida.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Treasurer Gallagher.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: What -- how -- how
10 much money did we pay out to pick these guys
11 up? Did -- did --
12 MR. MOORE: Well, so far, we're -- we've
13 paid under $10,000 to pick these up. But I'm
14 encouraging the public, and we're continuing to
15 encourage the public, not to take enforcement
16 action on their own, but if they've --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
18 MR. MOORE: -- got information on these --
19 these hoodlums, let us know, and we'll go after
20 them.
21 Governor, yesterday as well, you hosted
22 the first ever State of Technology Conference
23 here in the state of Florida, and we talked as
24 a state about the things that we're doing in
25 technology that is helping us do a better job
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 24
November 16, 2000
1 deliver our services to our citizens.
2 And there are several applications here in
3 the state of Florida that I'm particularly
4 proud of in the area of public safety. One
5 that you helped champion the cause on last year
6 was to add burglary as a predicate crime for
7 adding samples to our DNA database.
8 And during this past quarter, we picked up
9 and -- and solved a rate for -- for a crime
10 using the first sample of that burglary into
11 the database. So we're having success in that
12 already.
13 We've add-- as you'll see from that
14 quarterly report, we've added 2400 additional
15 samples. And by the end of this calendar year,
16 we will add another 24,000 burglary convictions
17 to that database, giving us in excess of
18 70,000 entries into that database now, and
19 solving crimes across our state in ways that we
20 all hoped that it would.
21 Finally, you and General Milligan
22 co-hosted, along with us, a -- a partnership --
23 public/private partnership back at the end of
24 September where we brought together some
25 80 corporate individuals of businesses across
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November 16, 2000
1 the state of Florida to work with all of our
2 regulatory agencies here in Florida, consistent
3 with our strike force against fraudulent
4 enterprises, looking for ways that we could
5 forge coalitions and work corporately to keep
6 fraudsters from victimizing our citizens.
7 At that time, we promised the participants,
8 some -- again, some 80 corporate individuals,
9 that we would give them by yesterday, access
10 via myflorida.com to our strikeforce against
11 fraudulent enterprises database, a database of
12 some 200,000 plus entries of people that have
13 either been complained against, or convicted of
14 fraud offenses here in the state of Florida.
15 Well, yesterday, I promised, we turned that
16 database on, again through myflorida.com to all
17 of those corporate sponsors, and -- and
18 petitioners, and they're now using that data to
19 help us make sure that we keep people from
20 victimizing our citizens here in this state.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excuse me, Commissioner.
22 Could I just -- could you move just a
23 little bit? That's the Mayor of Jacksonville,
24 and he probably is interested in the --
25 Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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November 16, 2000
1 If y'all could just recognize, there are
2 people here that are actually interested in the
3 agenda, we'd be grateful.
4 Mayor, how are you doing? Good to see you
5 now.
6 MR. MOORE: Good.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
8 MR. MOORE: Governor, our charge now is to
9 continue populating that database amongst the
10 20 agencies, investigative and regulatory, in
11 the state of Florida to make sure that the left
12 hand knows what the right's doing in terms of
13 individuals who are victimizing our citizens.
14 We're making much progress there, and I'm
15 proud of the fact that that -- that database is
16 now available to our corporate partners. And I
17 thank you and the Comptroller for helping
18 sponsor that partnership.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If I might,
20 Governor --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the -- one of the
23 challenges has been to really get all of the
24 agencies to participate in providing
25 appropriate data into that fight fraud
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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November 16, 2000
1 database.
2 And since we have all the agencies head --
3 heads here, I would encourage you all to work
4 with your folks, and -- and get that done. It
5 is an extraordinarily valuable service. We are
6 expanding it into the private domain.
7 Early in January we anticipate that any
8 citizen in Florida will be able to access the
9 database, and we are working with the private
10 sector, and will be working with the
11 Legislature to see what the private sector can
12 put into this database in terms of information
13 that they have.
14 And so it's a great opportunity to get
15 information out to -- to needy communities,
16 citizens, and so forth. But we need to get our
17 own act in order, and I encourage you all to --
18 to be participants.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is there --
20 I have a question.
21 Is there a -- a safeguard or some filter
22 that --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- would stop
25 somebody from, you know, not liking somebody
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November 16, 2000
1 and popping their name in there?
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Absolutely.
3 To say it is fail-safe, with today's
4 ability of some people to hack into systems,
5 I -- I wouldn't go that far. But every
6 security measure that we can take, has been
7 taken.
8 And, Tim, you might want to amplify on
9 that.
10 MR. MOORE: That's correct. The only entry
11 that can be made into that database is from one
12 of the agencies, one of the regulatory
13 agencies, or one of the investigative agencies.
14 And all this data are representative of
15 closed cases; not active, ongoing cases. That
16 was a condition for the business partners to
17 participate.
18 So I'm, like the -- like the Comptroller,
19 comfortable with the fact that we have the
20 safeguards on the front end to pre-- prevent
21 what you're talking about.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You're including
23 closed cases that there was no prosecution on?
24 MR. MOORE: Closed cases if there were
25 prosecutions, or if there were no prosecutions.
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1 That's public record in the state of Florida --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
3 MR. MOORE: -- and we --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So it's
5 basically -- you're exposing --
6 MR. MOORE: -- we just --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the total
8 public --
9 MR. MOORE: -- we put it together.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- record.
11 MR. MOORE: Exactly. Exactly.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But I heard
13 somebody say that the corporate can put data
14 in. What -- where would they --
15 MR. MOORE: Well, we're not there yet.
16 We're encouraging them to do that, and to work
17 with us in terms of sharing data with us in the
18 future of complaints that they've had against
19 individuals that are victimizing their
20 companies.
21 A lot of those complaints would be the same
22 as those that we have received in the state of
23 Florida, either in a regulatory agency, or an
24 investigative agency --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
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1 MR. MOORE: -- and pursued. But we're not
2 there just yet.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But -- but how
4 would -- how would they have one that -- that
5 our investigative agencies wouldn't know about?
6 MR. MOORE: Well, all of those -- those
7 corporations, as you know, particularly the big
8 ones, have huge investigative arms and elements
9 that we work jointly with day in and day out.
10 The majority of the complaints that they
11 would receive would be in the investigative
12 agencies, or in the regulatory agencies.
13 But there's those from time to time that
14 aren't. We're encouraging this -- this full
15 exchange of information --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But when they gave
17 it to -- they'd give it to one of our
18 investigative agencies that would look at it,
19 and put it on or not put it on, depending on
20 its --
21 MR. MOORE: That's correct. That's
22 correct.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There -- there are
24 some questions of liability that we have to
25 sort out, Tom. And that's part of what is
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1 being looked at at this point in time.
2 But identity thefts, and those types of
3 things, are information that the -- the private
4 sector may be willing to put into the database.
5 So we'll see where it goes.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
8 thank you.
9 Tim, can this be expanded, or is it already
10 there, to where we find that since there's so
11 many elderly people here in the state of
12 Florida, and so many -- so many elderly people
13 are scammed by telemarketers, as well as some
14 of the mail scams.
15 And many times, because their jurisdictions
16 are so small -- I mean, so far as a city or --
17 if they cross city lines, a lot of times,
18 law enforcement in one agency may not be
19 communicating directly with the other agency,
20 except maybe at monthly meetings or weekly
21 meetings. Can this be expanded to, if -- if,
22 in fact, there appears to be a certain type of
23 scam occurring in a community where -- where
24 law enforcement can at least put that
25 particular type of scam on the Internet so --
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1 where other officers can then look and see if
2 they're having the same type of thing.
3 Because many times we find that, well, only
4 one person complained in our community, but
5 somebody might have complained in -- in a
6 neighborhood community.
7 MR. MOORE: Exactly.
8 Ultimately where we want to be is -- the
9 state of Florida, consistent with the direction
10 you gave us as the -- as our governing body
11 several months ago, is we'll have a common
12 complaint, receipt, and referral database in
13 the state of Florida.
14 Now, Commissioner Crawford handles
15 thousands of those a year now. We want to
16 build on that good -- on that good operation,
17 and have a common complaint and referral
18 center.
19 When those complaints start coming in then,
20 and if there's gypsy roofers, or -- or -- or
21 road paver scammers that are -- that are
22 starting to work in Escambia County, then
23 intelligence is real and immediate, and we can
24 start alerting people by regions, and
25 ultimately statewide that, hey, be on the
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1 lookout for these kind of scams.
2 We can do that based on the suggestions
3 that you have there.
4 Now, local law enforcement and local
5 prosecutors are participants in this as well.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They --
7 MR. MOORE: They have been at the table
8 with us.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
10 Commissioner, since we have the worldwide media
11 here, we can send a signal out that
12 telemarketers that are calling in to the state
13 of Florida, your days are numbered. Okay?
14 MR. MOORE: We have some good -- we have
15 some good tough laws, and some good people that
16 are out there protecting Floridians. So --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sure it'll --
18 MR. MOORE: -- don't come down here --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- make the --
20 MR. MOORE: -- to do your business.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- national news tonight.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It'll be the
23 top story in the news --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It'll be the
25 number one story. You got it.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Maybe second.
2 MR. MOORE: Governor -- Item 3, Governor,
3 is final approval recommended for a rule we
4 initiated back earlier this year, consistent
5 with the Cabinet's rulemaking authority, to
6 adopt the specific legislative direction we
7 were given last session to lower the firearms
8 purchase fee from $8 back to the $5 fee that
9 was originally put in place when the program
10 was implemented.
11 We have published and -- notice of this
12 rule and rulemaking, as required by your
13 guidelines and the state of Florida guidelines.
14 We've had no input or concerns regarding
15 this rule, and I'd recommend final approval to
16 you.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Any discussion?
22 Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. MOORE: Thank you.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commissioner.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
3 TREASURER NELSON: -- may I make a -- a
4 comment to Tim before you leave?
5 I -- I don't know if you're going to be
6 here in our last Cabinet meeting. But I just
7 want to tell you what a delight it has been in
8 the professional relationship that we've had in
9 our two law enforcement operations, Division of
10 Insurance Fraud, and also the arson
11 investigators in the State Fire Marshal's
12 Office.
13 And working with you has been a -- a truly
14 professional delight, and it has also been a
15 great help. And -- and thank you for the
16 compliments.
17 Most people do not know that it was one of
18 our investigators in the arson investigation
19 that broke open that Florida A&M bomber case.
20 And you were very kind to call me to thank us
21 for that.
22 And we appreciate the relationship.
23 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Senator, and so do
24 we.
25 Thank you much.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Thanks.
2 MR. MOORE: And good luck to you, sir.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Thanks.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: You going somewhere?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You're not
6 coming to next week's Cabinet meeting?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're -- are you leaving
8 before or something? What's --
9 TREASURER NELSON: No.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're going to organize a
11 good good-bye. Don't worry.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Do we have -- how many
13 more Cabinet meetings do we have before the end
14 of the year?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we have one in
16 Melbourne.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Very good.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Gets to go home.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: So we'll do that.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Very good.
21 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
22 Agenda was concluded.)
23 * * *
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of
2 Highway Safety.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item 2.
9 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2, Governor, is
10 approval of our quarterly report ending
11 September 2000.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. DICKINSON: Item 3 is the submission of
18 our Department legislative package for 2001.
19 I would like to point out a couple items.
20 I know it's pretty noncontroversial from what
21 I've heard.
22 So -- no, I'm just --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: You can't match controversy
24 right now. So go ahead.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Go ahead, give it a
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1 try.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just -- I dare you to
3 become controversial today.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Please
6 become controversial.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This is the time
8 to do it, because nobody would recognize it.
9 MR. DICKINSON: We have a couple of items
10 that are to be withdrawn from the package.
11 One is a law enforcement item that I talked
12 with the Comptroller about. And we'll be
13 working on that in the future with -- with a
14 number of you.
15 The other item is an item that we --
16 currently we suspend your driving privilege and
17 your tags -- or actually only suspend what you
18 have floated us a check for.
19 If you give us a bad check, we'll go in
20 there and get your driver's license or suspend
21 it. We were seeking to expand that.
22 We're going to go back and narrow it down
23 to just what you've given the check for. So
24 that also has been withdrawn.
25 There is an item in here, and I think,
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1 Governor, you and the General will be
2 interested in this, that goes to our problem
3 on -- when we have fatalities or serious
4 injuries.
5 We have authorized medical personnel to
6 provide us with the blood when they take it
7 from someone involved in one of those crashes.
8 Hopefully will help us in some of those
9 horrible situations. But that's also included
10 here.
11 As well as a proposal to do some fund
12 shifting that would -- we would absorb all the
13 costs for our Internet fees, and any other fees
14 that you might want to go through us for
15 renewals.
16 Don't know how that'll fly upstairs, but --
17 in the Legislature, but we're going to make a
18 stab at it.
19 And as you are all aware, we have the --
20 the flat rate fee included in here. What we're
21 striving to do is to condense or consolidate
22 about 97 class codes that we currently operate
23 under, down to a more manageable number.
24 And what we've done in this package is
25 brought it down to one. You pay a flat $43 fee
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1 for every plate in Florida. I understand --
2 and we understood this on the front end -- this
3 was going to be open for some consternation.
4 About 70 percent of the Floridians would pay a
5 lower fee in this. The -- the remaining
6 30 percent would pay a little more. And the --
7 the -- that 30 percent would be the lower
8 category weight class of vehicle.
9 So the -- the reason I'm pointing this out
10 to you is that we know this is the start of the
11 process. We have some fallbacks, quite
12 frankly, to fall back three to five categories.
13 Still much better -- much improved over the
14 current 97.
15 And I understand they're -- we'll -- we'll
16 be working this process.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: On this -- this
19 blood sample deal --
20 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir. Uh-hum.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- this -- I just
22 want to be clear on this.
23 This is, if, in fact, during the normal
24 medical attention given to a person that is
25 hospitalized, blood samples are taken, you can
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1 have some of that.
2 This is not an authorization for your
3 Department or your personnel to go request and
4 get a blood sample.
5 Am I correct or am I incorrect?
6 MR. DICKINSON: Yes and yes.
7 You -- currently we can request -- if we
8 have probable cause, we can request the medical
9 personnel to take that blood.
10 This says just what you said on the front
11 end of that, if in the crash, we don't ask for
12 it, but the medical personnel happens to take
13 the blood, then it can be turned over to
14 law enforcement and used.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
16 MR. DICKINSON: Does that answer what --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That does.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is a result of y'all's
19 work after the fatality in Broward County,
20 right?
21 MR. DICKINSON: Absolutely.
22 Actually, Governor, we have been interested
23 in this for several years. I think four to
24 five years ago it was also proposed, and there
25 was some constitutionality, some
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1 fourth amendment problems that we encountered.
2 This is our stab at getting around --
3 around that -- the unconstitutional problem.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
5 legislative package, as amended.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Well --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Well, let me get some
11 clarification.
12 What -- what does, as amended -- does that
13 include your recommendation for this $43 fee?
14 MR. DICKINSON: It includes the
15 recommendation that we put that in our
16 legislative package. I -- I wanted y'all to
17 understand that we are -- we're not pushing for
18 that particular proposal per se.
19 What I want to do is put it on the table,
20 and let's debate it, which I -- I see happening
21 here, the start of it. I guarantee you, the
22 Legislature's going to take a more active -- or
23 as an active role in this thing.
24 The tax collectors are joining with us on
25 this.
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1 And what we'd like to do is put it out
2 there, and -- you know how the process will
3 take it from there.
4 But, yes, sir, it is in our legislative
5 package.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- I looked at
7 it as it's -- it's there to go to the
8 Legislature for discussion, as opposed to, this
9 is what we're recommending.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'm opposed to it.
11 And either -- I can either vote against the
12 proposal, or I can amend.
13 Simply, I don't think that 50 -- well, you
14 said 70 percent of the people that would be
15 paying less than $43 ought to suddenly have
16 that jacked up.
17 The old fee was based on a -- a weight
18 category. And if we are in a time of concern
19 of energy conservation, what we ought to be
20 doing is encouraging lighter vehicles and more
21 efficient vehicles.
22 And to suddenly jack up their license tag
23 fee, whereas under the present schedule, the
24 lower weight vehicles pay less, to jack that up
25 and ask them to pay more in order to -- just to
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1 have a statewide average doesn't seem to me to
2 be good public policy.
3 So, Governor, how would you like us to
4 proceed?
5 Would you like me to offer an amendment, or
6 just to take an up or down vote?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think probably for safety
8 purposes, since we're nearing the completion of
9 an election year, this is the kind of thing
10 that you see on TV ads.
11 You may want to have it -- I don't know
12 how -- I mean, there -- there's a way to do
13 this where you can allow the debate to occur
14 without it being officially part of your
15 legislative package, isn't there, Fred?
16 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Why don't -- why
18 don't --
19 MR. DICKINSON: May I offer something?
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Why don't we --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- just remove
23 that from our -- our recommendations as --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a sad time. But it's
25 actually the case, that you could see a really
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1 stupid TV ad which stifles the ability to have
2 some kind of debate about something that
3 might -- might actually make a lot of sense.
4 It might be an efficiency measure.
5 One thing I want to make clear though,
6 did -- did the -- did Senator Nelson get it
7 backwards, or -- or was it 70 percent will see
8 a reduction, and 30 percent will see an
9 increase, or --
10 MR. DICKINSON: That's correct.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the other way around?
12 MR. DICKINSON: No, sir. Seventy percent
13 will see a reduction.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Because on -- our -- our
15 statistics here said 40 to 50 percent. So it
16 was about even.
17 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Let me --
18 see if this is correct, Fred.
19 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Fifty percent of the
21 people now pay $37 or less; is that correct?
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: You can't figure it
23 out.
24 MR. DICKINSON: I think it's
25 thirty-seven fifty. But -- okay.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Thirty-seven fifty or
2 less.
3 Fifty percent of the people now.
4 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
6 MR. DICKINSON: No.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Therefore, if you jacked
8 it up to $43, we know that that 50 percent is
9 going to be paying more.
10 MR. DICKINSON: I'm going to -- I'm going
11 to backtrack for one second. I think it's --
12 I think the figures are 30 percent are in the
13 low weight category, and they would pay --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the -- the
15 figure you gave said 14.88 percent are in the
16 lowest weight category, $29 category.
17 MR. DICKINSON: I'm going up to --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER:
19 Thirty-seven percent are in the --
20 MR. DICKINSON: The lowest two categories?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But it tends to
22 stay the same, I guess.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The lowest two,
24 you add the 14 and the 37 together, don't you?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, we could
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1 spend a lot of time on this --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Why don't we just
3 pull this out of there?
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I recommend
5 that we --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yank it.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- amend the -- the
8 project right now to exclude that as part of
9 the package, and --
10 TREASURER NELSON: Then I will second that.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Senator.
12 There's a motion and a second to approve
13 the package as amended.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Simple
16 solution to a difficult problem.
17 Just get rid of it.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move it on to
19 somebody else.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hmm.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's the
22 way you deal with it.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You've been going
24 for difficult solutions to simple problems.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
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1 right.
2 If I can just ask Fred one question.
3 Fred, I understand that you're going to be
4 changing your -- your accident reports the
5 first of the year in order to reflect crashes
6 that -- that might have been caused while --
7 while the driver is distracted, such as reading
8 the Wall Street Journal, or watching TV?
9 Because -- because literally -- I mean,
10 cars are now -- literally offices now. So --
11 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
12 That crash report is being amended to take
13 into account distractions that may occur.
14 And we've also, under your suggestion,
15 asked our Troopers -- with all the other things
16 that are going on right now, asked our Troopers
17 to be a little more alert to tires, maybe some
18 mechanical defects that may occur.
19 And we had that happen, as a matter of
20 fact, over in Escambia County a couple of
21 months ago, where a young newlywed couple was
22 involved in a crash, and their seat belts
23 actually failed.
24 The first report was that they were not
25 belted. The family got back to us, we went
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1 back and did some investigations, and actually
2 we saw the burns on the -- on the hinges.
3 The seat belts actually didn't lock up when
4 they were supposed to. Both were ejected. And
5 the young bride of 6 hours was unfortunately
6 killed.
7 But, yes, we're -- not only we're putting
8 it on the crash report, but we're -- we're
9 trying to train our guys and gals on the
10 Highway Patrol, and -- and have a little higher
11 awareness level.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What's good
13 about this is that the troopers are the
14 frontline defense against certain type of
15 defects that might be involved in -- whether it
16 be tires or whether it be automobiles.
17 When you see a pattern going -- I
18 understand you're going to make that available
19 to -- to national agencies and such like that.
20 Because you are the front line to protect
21 all of us against possible defects.
22 MR. DICKINSON: We're just following in --
23 in the training we got 15 years ago, General,
24 when --
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.
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1 That's --
2 MR. DICKINSON: -- you were the head.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You had such
4 a -- you had such an enlightened Director back
5 then as --
6 MR. DICKINSON: We do have -- we did have,
7 incidentally, on this case in Escambia or --
8 or -- or Walt-- Santa Rosa, we did have NHTSA
9 and Ford Motor. It was unfortunately a
10 Ford Motor Company car.
11 But both of them came down to inspect
12 the -- the situation, and --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I bet they did.
14 MR. DICKINSON: -- I'm sure the -- the
15 trial lawyers will take it from there.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Probably
17 have 14 trial lawyers. I mean --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Don't go there.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: They're all tied
20 up.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
22 MR. DICKINSON: I think we need to approve
23 the --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: We did.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We did.
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1 MR. DICKINSON: Oh, we did?
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: As amended.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: As amended.
4 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: With the auto tags
6 out.
7 MR. DICKINSON: Yes.
8 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
9 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
10 * * *
11
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Dr. Zingale, how are you doing?
8 DR. ZINGALE: Doing great.
9 Very brief status report today. Very
10 brief.
11 This is the -- this is the three-month
12 reporting in on our property tax study.
13 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
14 DR. ZINGALE: We've got a tracking document
15 in place. It has identified 43 actionable
16 items. Five of those items have been fully
17 implemented. Two of those items, the policy
18 has been implemented, and needs budget to fully
19 implement across all strata.
20 Two, the policy has been implemented, and
21 it's in a phased-in schedule. Three are behind
22 schedule. One, delaying a month; two, part of
23 our search for best practices across the
24 country is experiencing some delays in getting
25 those results in, and 31 are on schedule.
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1 The tracking report has gotten a wide
2 distribution. We gave it out to both property
3 appraisers association at their annual meeting
4 yesterday.
5 We have continued to work quite extensively
6 with the Auditor General and their staff,
7 particularly Dr. Whorton, the consultant.
8 Are there any questions?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: How was your meeting with
10 the property appraisers on --
11 DR. ZINGALE: Yesterday?
12 Had a nice teflon vest on, got up there and
13 said, our job was to follow the law, identify
14 what's right, and be fair. And we are going to
15 do that.
16 And if at the end of this cycle that caused
17 some counties not to be in compliance, then
18 we'd be turning rolls down. Our goal was to
19 try to help them all become in compliance.
20 It was an interesting meeting.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How does one get
22 over 100 percent --
23 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- of valuation on
25 a piece of property when, in fact, we know that
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1 that person would not sell the property for
2 that valuation?
3 MR. ZINGALE: Complex question. You're
4 talking the whole rolls, not on an individual
5 parcel of property. If an individual parcel
6 felt that they were over, they could go in
7 front of the Value Adjustment Board and get it
8 down.
9 It primarily --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But if -- if you
11 have no individual property above 100 percent,
12 how can you come up with the math that gives
13 you the whole roll being above 100 percent?
14 DR. ZINGALE: It -- it comes from two
15 different assessments of what that value is.
16 Okay?
17 One, from a property appraiser to be doing
18 a mass appraisal job.
19 Two, us doing where those over 100s are
20 coming in using that econometric approach we
21 talked about where the entire roll is valued.
22 And it's basically a disagreement between the
23 Department of Revenue's methodology and the
24 property appraiser's methodology in terms of
25 what was the economic activity over the prior
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1 year.
2 If we forecast that growth in the overall
3 roll to be in excess of what the property
4 appraiser put it on, we can come in with ratios
5 over 100.
6 If you think about it though, that's coming
7 with those counties that we are viewing as
8 fairly close to 100. You've got a county whose
9 appraiser brought it in at fairly close to 100.
10 Our econometric forecast shows that slightly in
11 excess, and you can get a ratio over 100.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But aren't you
13 forcing assessors to undervalue properties
14 because of your econometrics?
15 DR. ZINGALE: It's a question of who's
16 right, not a question of whether we're forcing
17 them to do one thing or another.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, if I'm -- if
19 I'm an assessor, I'm going to -- I'm going to
20 lean toward keeping them lower than the law
21 says in order not to be reported as over
22 100 percent.
23 DR. ZINGALE: That is certainly a
24 consequence of that finding. It is why in this
25 action plan that you see here, we've engaged a
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1 national econometrician, Dr. Keith Ilnfeldt
2 from FSU. He is the -- that emeritus scholar
3 we talked about specifically to work with our
4 econometric methodology to determine whether
5 it's sound.
6 It's not something that I would argue as
7 perfect last time around. There's a lot of
8 time and effort going into it this year.
9 If a roll comes in over 100, and it can,
10 that would cause what you said to take place.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So -- but --
12 here -- here's the problem. You have an
13 elected assessor that's doing their job
14 correctly, and probably closer than some guys
15 that may not be doing it as correctly.
16 DR. ZINGALE: Uh-hum.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- so when
18 they -- their reward for this is they get
19 hammered from our Department of Revenue saying
20 they overassessed.
21 DR. ZINGALE: The nature of that analysis
22 says they did overassess. We did sit down with
23 them individually and explain how we arrived at
24 that.
25 I would argue at this point in time that it
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1 isn't a solid conclusion whether they were
2 doing a better job than that analysis said.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But -- but if none
4 of the properties in that county are over
5 100 percent of the value that they can sell it
6 for, which is what they technically should be
7 assessing it at, how can you say that they
8 overassessed?
9 DR. ZINGALE: The adjustment of value would
10 have to take into consideration that first and
11 eighth criteria, and that 15 percent adjustment
12 down.
13 You can end up with rolls that come in that
14 way. You can end up with parcels that, based
15 on economic conditions, we believe the value
16 increased. The homeowner may not believe the
17 value increased, or the commercial property may
18 not believe the value increased. We believe
19 the value increased, and the property appraiser
20 didn't believe it increased as much.
21 Based on that, we don't bias the analysis
22 when it comes out at 101, and we say it's at
23 101.
24 And we'll continue to do that, if that's
25 what the analysis shows.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But what you just
2 said is that you didn't believe -- that nobody
3 believed it increased that much, including the
4 tax assessor. That would keep it below 100,
5 not above.
6 DR. ZINGALE: You've got parcels that could
7 have sold right side-by-side with -- that were
8 higher; you could have parcels that were sold
9 in similar market areas in other areas that
10 were higher.
11 You get very few that would be sitting down
12 there saying they would sell their property for
13 what that -- that assessed value was.
14 But that --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
16 DR. ZINGALE: -- that is the process today.
17 I've committed in this plan to look at it
18 at a very detailed level.
19 We are engaging people that have national
20 reputations in looking at it. That is the
21 methodology -- we have been assessing values
22 like that over 100 for many years. And if it's
23 wrong, we're going to fix it this year.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- I'm --
25 I'm glad to hear you're looking into it,
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1 because they -- I think you're punishing those
2 assessors that do the best job at having it
3 close to a -- a real value, and --
4 DR. ZINGALE: Absolutely.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- rewarding those
6 that don't. And I don't know that that's what
7 we ought to be doing in this state.
8 DR. ZINGALE: I understand.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Especially if we
10 have to deal with that in education, it's a --
11 it's a major influence on the local required
12 effort.
13 DR. ZINGALE: Absolutely.
14 And -- and you will see -- because I'm sure
15 it'll get a lot more attention when we bring
16 our legislative concepts next month --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, I'm sure it
18 will.
19 DR. ZINGALE: -- and we've got one that
20 deals with that link into the FEFP.
21 And it is a concern I personally have in
22 terms of how those ratios are used in setting
23 millage. Very difficult undertaking, one in
24 which statistics may not be the right way to go
25 about doing that.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Dr. Zingale, I would urge
2 the Butterworth principle here, which is, if
3 you make changes, make them simple, make them
4 commonsensical. This is a very complex --
5 I mean, this is really complex stuff.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's -- it's real
7 hard to explain --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: And there's so many --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- to somebody --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- unintended
11 consequences --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that you can't explain.
14 I mean, I -- I -- I think you answered
15 Commissioner Gallagher's questions. But it --
16 a normal person listening to that would say,
17 well, that doesn't make any sense.
18 And so you're -- you're -- what you're
19 saying, I'm sure, is completely accurate, and
20 it's within the law and all that. But if we're
21 going to make some changes, I would urge, not
22 overengineering it, but simplifying it.
23 DR. ZINGALE: Well, we're bringing in some
24 legislative concepts that directly address the
25 over 100 issue this time around.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's got to be --
2 DR. ZINGALE: And --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- addressed.
4 It's just --
5 DR. ZINGALE: -- it is -- we've gotten some
6 favorable response back from legislative staff
7 that it's been a long time since that's been
8 looked at.
9 Certainly the capping issue we brought in
10 front of you earlier kind of revealed it for
11 the first time. It's been going on for a lot
12 longer than just this last year.
13 Statistics can be used very effectively to
14 do some things; setting millage sometimes,
15 that's not the best way to do it.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's a problem.
17 DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
20 concluded.)
21 * * *
22
23
24
25
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November 16, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me move the
3 minutes from September 26th and October 2nd.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is a reappointment and
8 appointments to the State Board of Community
9 Colleges:
10 Randall W. Hannah, reappointed;
11 Randolph Berridge; and Dr. George Thomas,
12 appointed, terms ending September 30th, 2005.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 Thank you, Wayne.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
19 MR. PIERSON: We've got a --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, I'm sorry.
21 MR. PIERSON: We have a correction.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: October 10th?
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
24 October 10th, not the 2nd.
25 MR. PIERSON: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Change to
2 October 10th.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Gallagher --
4 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 * * *
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion on the minutes for
2 the Board of Trustees, September 26th.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
6 October 24th.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: September 26th
8 meeting.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is
10 Board of Trustees?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
12 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. It's --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Mine says --
14 MR. STRUHS: -- the 26th.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
16 October 24th.
17 MR. STRUHS: It's the 26th.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: My motion's on the
20 26th. If you want to change it, have at it.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
22 well, I'm going to fire a Cabinet Aide then,
23 because my --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: No.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- mine says
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1 October 24th. So I don't --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any volunteers?
3 No.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: How about we just
5 move both of them?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We're going
7 to miss, you, Kent, till --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
9 second.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. STRUHS: Sorry.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think Kent
13 should abstain --
14 MR. STRUHS: Sorry, Kent.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- from that
16 vote.
17 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 2 is an item that
18 has been before you before. It's known as the
19 Hawkins Avenue Corporation, or the Wood-Hopkins
20 contracting lease. It's actually been before
21 you a number of times.
22 And I'd like to report, if I could, that
23 there have been some substantial changes and
24 improvements I believe to the project that are
25 responsive to some of the questions that you as
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1 a Cabinet raised in earlier discussions.
2 For starters, the channel that's being
3 proposed has been moved an additional 75 feet
4 from the homeowners' property. You may recall
5 the industrial development is on the north
6 side, the homeowners are on the south side.
7 That proposal was originally to have a
8 channel that began dredging only 25 feet out
9 from their backyards. That has now been pulled
10 back an additional 75 feet, so you've got
11 100 foot setback.
12 In addition to that, we have been working
13 to create a partnership with the homeowners.
14 You may remember them, Mrs. Kratz and Hodges
15 and Khan.
16 Working with them --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are they here today?
18 MR. STRUHS: They -- they actually were
19 here, but chose to leave because they were so
20 comfortable and confident with the --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, darn it. I wanted
22 to --
23 MR. STRUHS: -- resolution --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- say hello.
25 MR. STRUHS: -- achieved.
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1 We thought it was good news that they left,
2 because it actually meant that we were on the
3 same page, and they felt confident that we
4 could resolve their issues.
5 What we're looking at, Governor, and
6 Cabinet, is the existence of a 1986 survey of
7 that shoreline in an effort in which the
8 Department and the land -- land owners, and
9 possibly with some assistance from the
10 Port Authority, will actually restore their
11 shoreline back to its historic measure.
12 And that provides them the protection that
13 they need, and allows the development project
14 to go forward. And we will have good
15 neighbors.
16 So with that as background, we're
17 recommending approval of this item, subject to
18 those conditions and a payment of $57,799.55.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 General Milligan, this is living proof that
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1 the process does work, that public meetings can
2 make a difference, that people -- people's
3 voices can be heard, and they can shape policy.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's right.
5 MR. STRUHS: A good example of that.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Best one I've seen so far.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: At least there is
8 one so far.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. It was a good one.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's good to
11 know.
12 MR. STRUHS: Item -- Item Number 3, we're
13 recommending approval of that item.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 4 is -- is very
19 exciting, and I know you're all familiar with
20 it. It's the Cedar Swamp acquisition.
21 This is, as you probably all know, a
22 remnant of an ancient and unique dune and swale
23 system that is just a few minutes from downtown
24 Jacksonville.
25 And what we've seen here is local political
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1 leadership build some broad-based work in the
2 local community to make it a priority to
3 conserve this open space; preserve it for some
4 threatened plants and animals; preserve it as
5 an opportunity for recreation, like canoeing
6 and hiking and biking.
7 And in -- perhaps most interestingly, a
8 recognition by the local government that this
9 is good, smart growth management that is
10 actually cheaper in the long run for the
11 community to conserve and preserve this land
12 for those uses, rather than having to extend
13 infrastructure out there for additional
14 development.
15 And it's a great privilege for me to be
16 able to introduce Mayor John Delaney, who made
17 the trip here this morning to describe this
18 program in a bit more detail.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Mayor.
20 MR. DELANEY: Governor.
21 Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
22 Good to be before you again, and I
23 appreciate this opportunity. We'd like to
24 start, first by saying that I drove over very,
25 very early from Jacksonville this morning.
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1 And my wife told me, Governor, to pass on
2 to you, and to Secretary Harris that her
3 prayers and thoughts are with you.
4 She rolled over and went back to sleep.
5 I'm sure she would have mentioned the other
6 five Cabinet members in the same breath.
7 And I'll pass --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can you wake
9 her up, and --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- testimony.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Crawford needs
13 some, too, over there.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Thank you.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Butterworth
16 does, too. I mean --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. You're out
18 there pretty far.
19 MR. DELANEY: As the Secretary pointed out,
20 and I would like to also thank the -- the DEP
21 and the Secretary and his staff for tremendous
22 cooperation. We're very, very proud of the
23 working relationship.
24 Approximately two years ago, we began what
25 we called the preservation project in
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1 Jacksonville, which is to preserve portions of
2 land and try to push growth and development
3 where we want it, and not -- go ahead and buy
4 it from willing sellers in areas where we
5 prefer not to have it.
6 We have a partnership with The Trust for
7 Public Land, and also the Nature Conservancy, a
8 citizens oversight committee, and the
9 City Council that evaluates these.
10 We've essentially divided the county into
11 five categories. This particular parcel is in
12 the one that we describe as the, quote, high
13 growth corridor. It's basically the center of
14 the urban activity, the urban growth in our
15 particular community.
16 And this particular piece is under a very
17 high degree of -- a threat of eminent
18 development. In fact, there are permits
19 pending right now before our City Council in
20 the event that we are not able to purchase this
21 land for about a quarter of that land.
22 It has again been reviewed by a local
23 citizens committee, by the City Council or the
24 County Commission in northeast Florida, by the
25 Water Management District, and, of course, the
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1 CARL staff and the DEP.
2 I personally took a look at the appraisal
3 and the values that came on.
4 As to values, again, a similar review of
5 the assessments or the appraisals. There's
6 been four appraisals done, one by the seller
7 himself for estate tax purposes, two by the
8 Water Management District as required by law.
9 All of them are in the same basic range.
10 And the price is approximately 93 percent of
11 that particular value.
12 We have in the packet that we've dropped
13 off showing some comparables. They are again
14 substantially above the price that we are
15 paying here, especially as it relates to
16 potential commercial development.
17 This tract of land --
18 I know, Governor, you're familiar with it.
19 It's on J. Turner Butler Boulevard as you head
20 from the -- essentially the downtown towards
21 the beach.
22 The southern portion of this property has
23 already been purchased by the Water Management
24 District south of Pablo Creek on the map. This
25 is, in effect, what we now call Phase I. We're
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1 pursuing lands north of J. Turner Butler also
2 owned or controlled by this particular
3 individual.
4 The Governor appointed me to -- to act as
5 Chairman of the Florida Forever Advisory
6 Council, and -- and a series of things we've
7 discovered in going on that.
8 Our first report is pending. I think
9 it's -- the draft is on the Secretary's desk,
10 and we should approve it within the next few
11 weeks. That series of issues have come up.
12 One is public access, two is an
13 encouragement by the -- the Legislature and the
14 administration to use more creative instruments
15 in buying and obtaining lands such as less than
16 fee.
17 And, third, a shift to a more urban focus.
18 What we do find with a shift to an urban focus
19 is there is no cheap land in front of a
20 bulldozer, and that's what we have in this
21 particular parcel.
22 We think it's going to be a substantial --
23 substantial improvement for our community. As
24 with all the properties I've come -- come
25 before you in, we're putting in a substantial
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1 local commitment.
2 About one-sixth of the price is from the
3 City or County, another sixth from the
4 Water Management District, and the remaining
5 from the CARL program.
6 And I think it'd be a positive addition to
7 the State lands.
8 Thank you, Governor.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I don't know
10 whether this is the right time or not.
11 But -- and I guess your newspaper -- no.
12 I guess -- yeah, Times Union. Your newspaper
13 probably said it right. They said this stinks,
14 but we ought to do it anyway.
15 I -- I have a -- I don't mind buying it,
16 and I don't mind having a life estate in it.
17 And I can live with those two.
18 But I think that the way the life estate
19 ought to work is that we purchase this land,
20 and we hold it in joint title with a right of
21 survivorship. And that means that as the
22 couple -- the Hodgeses -- the one dies, the
23 wife and the State own it; when the other dies,
24 then it reverts to the State.
25 And that way we don't have to worry about
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1 whether somebody sends us a death notice and --
2 30 years from now, and it ends up, you know,
3 getting filed in -- in some file cabinet.
4 And -- and we don't -- we don't end up with the
5 property somehow.
6 And I -- so I have a real problem with the
7 title --
8 MR. DELANEY: Yeah. Commissioner, I
9 understand.
10 First, that was a columnist in the
11 newspaper, not the newspaper. And he does--
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Which columnist?
13 MR. DELANEY: -- he doesn't like you, me,
14 the Governor, or any of you up there.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Which one is it?
16 MR. DELANEY: So that's -- that's
17 Ron Littlepage.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
19 MR. DELANEY: And --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He didn't sign it.
21 MR. DELANEY: Yeah.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It looks like it
23 was an editorial. So I didn't see a --
24 MR. DELANEY: No --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I didn't see a
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1 byline here.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Case closed.
3 MR. DELANEY: It's -- but that's just more
4 anecdotal than anything else.
5 But again, the --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: He likes you, Mayor.
7 MR. DELANEY: -- the conclusion is -- the
8 conclusion is, this is something we've got to
9 buy.
10 I know you've had a concern with making
11 sure that upon the -- the -- again, the
12 termination of the life estates, that we're
13 going to find it.
14 First, I will say this: When this guy
15 dies, everybody's going to know it. It's --
16 it's not going to sneak up on us.
17 This particular parcel of land is in the
18 heart of a very urbanized area.
19 As -- in conjunction with the Aides, the
20 Cabinet Aides, we have made some changes to the
21 contract that upon -- again, upon the deaths,
22 the personal representatives of the estate then
23 triggers the process and is required by law to
24 turn it over.
25 But clearly we're going to know. It is a
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1 beautiful piece of property that we're going to
2 want to get. And I think the concerns have
3 been addressed with the modifications to the
4 contract.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- I
6 just --
7 MR. DELANEY: And the last concern,
8 Commissioner, is I think if you go into the
9 joint title or ownership, as it stands, the
10 owner has to pay property taxes. And I think
11 if we do the joint ownership, we -- we have an
12 impact on that. We just as soon them keep
13 paying.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But -- but just
15 think about this: What we're doing is we're
16 paying a -- a person about 92 percent of the
17 appraised value, we probably'll get the
18 property 30 years from now.
19 Do you know how much the taxes are each
20 year?
21 MR. DELANEY: It's a modest amount because
22 it's green belted. Yeah.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- well, any
24 amount --
25 MR. DELANEY: I don't off the --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- well, what --
2 what -- how much --
3 MR. DELANEY: -- top of my head.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- is it?
5 MR. DELANEY: I don't off the top of my
6 head.
7 MR. STRUHS: It -- I'm sorry.
8 MR. DELANEY: That's fine.
9 MR. STRUHS: I don't know the figure. We
10 can obviously find it out for you. But it's --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, you know --
12 MR. STRUHS: -- it's tax --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- thirty years --
14 I mean, he'd never --
15 MR. STRUHS: -- it's tax exempt.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- he no longer
17 pays taxes. And he has -- I mean, not only
18 does he get 93 percent of the value in cash, he
19 gets full use of the property, and ownership of
20 the property, but doesn't pay any taxes.
21 MR. STRUHS: No. He will be paying taxes
22 as long as he's alive.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, because he
24 still owns it.
25 MR. STRUHS: Right.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Plus the use is -- this is
3 a pretty unique concept, because -- I think
4 this deals more with the -- the -- less with
5 the law and more with the emotions of the --
6 just the kind of the intangible aspects of the
7 seller, Commissioner, in that this is
8 incredibly restrictive -- he doesn't have free
9 access. And you may want to talk about that.
10 MR. DELANEY: Yeah. He -- he basically --
11 he can't develop it, can't change it --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I would hope not.
13 MR. DELANEY: -- he can't do anything with
14 it. And --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: He can't ride a horse on
16 it.
17 MR. DELANEY: -- and, again, what you have
18 with any of the land purchases, Commissioner,
19 sort of -- a couple of objectives.
20 First will be to prevent the development.
21 Secondarily is to allow the public's
22 access. We think we accomplished both -- both
23 of those -- the second obviously is a little
24 later in time.
25 And in the end, what we come back to is
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1 this, that's what was the condition of him
2 selling it. And we believe then we preserve a
3 substantial hunk of this land. It has a
4 great -- it's both water recharge and water --
5 really some water purification qualities in
6 terms of the drainage in that basin.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Mayor, I have no
8 problem with us purchasing it, or the reasons
9 for purchase. I think those are all wonderful,
10 I'm all in favor of it.
11 MR. DELANEY: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But I am -- I am
13 really concerned about this kind of a precedent
14 set for purchasing land. This is a -- this --
15 I mean, everybody that's got a piece of land,
16 say I'll take that little deal.
17 MR. DELANEY: Well, they don't pass it on
18 to their kids. And, frankly, the State's done
19 that for quite some time. You're doing it in
20 the Everglades, that -- that much of the land
21 is purchased, and it's remained in agricultural
22 use without public access without, in effect --
23 the public has, in effect, a conservation
24 easement over that.
25 And, again, what you've got is you've got a
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1 temporary window. You've got a temporary
2 window we can't get to it.
3 And I guess I have to report to you this
4 way. You know, I've -- been personally
5 involved with this. This is as good as we
6 could get.
7 He wants to stay there and live on it. He
8 loves the property. And -- and he doesn't want
9 anybody else in there while he and his wife are
10 living there.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, and that's
12 why I think it ought to be in joint ownership
13 with the State, because we're not going to go
14 in there -- we've got the easements there and
15 everything else. And that way we know exactly
16 what happens when everybody does.
17 I look at it like this: Thirty years ago
18 we made this deal, everybody sitting in DEP is
19 different. Everybody in the Mayor's office and
20 the -- and the Council is different, everybody
21 up here is different. And somebody drops in
22 the -- in the mail, you know, a death
23 certificate and saying, you know, in -- and
24 they'd sit there and open it, and say, oh, gee,
25 somebody died.
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1 And where did -- why'd they send that to
2 us?
3 MR. STRUHS: Commissioner, that -- that's
4 a -- that's a legitimate concern, and it's one
5 that we shared. And that's one of the reasons
6 we went back and made it structured so that
7 they're not sending us a death notice, they're
8 actually sending us the title.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
10 MR. STRUHS: That it's -- it is a
11 self-executing option so that upon --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And --
13 MR. STRUHS: -- the death of the --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and when they
15 don't, what happens?
16 MR. STRUHS: Well, how is that different
17 than if they don't send the death warrant?
18 I mean, the warrant --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's the --
20 MR. STRUHS: -- but the --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- problem with
22 both of them. That -- the problem is --
23 MR. STRUHS: -- certificate --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that when they
25 both die, the property reverts to the State,
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1 without anything happening.
2 MR. STRUHS: But -- but we -- we wrote it
3 in a way where it's automatically executing. I
4 mean, they will -- it will automatically
5 execute.
6 The conservation easement is -- the -- the
7 conservation easement is on record in
8 Duval County so that anybody who wanted to
9 touch the land in the future would be cognizant
10 of the fact that that existed, and that upon
11 the time of death, the title automatically
12 transfers to -- to the state of Florida.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Crawford --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Somebody still has
15 to send the title in, right?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Crawford?
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
18 Treasurer Gall-- I just want to correct one
19 thing.
20 Actually you said we wouldn't all be here.
21 But I think you're going to be here at that
22 time. So --
23 So --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. But I --
25 I'll probably be Commissioner --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: You can have --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- of Agriculture
3 by then.
4 That'll be the only thing left. I can't
5 be --
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Good luck.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I had to interrupt. That
8 was appropriate.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Did he whisper
10 that to you?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, he did.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I wasn't going to
13 say it.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I wanted the whole world to
15 share that.
16 Yes, General.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I can't -- I
18 can't top that, Governor.
19 Is there any reason, Mayor, why we cannot
20 do what the -- what the Commissioner wants?
21 I mean, I don't -- I don't see why the -- the
22 landowner would not object to the -- the joint
23 title. I mean, he wants the money, he wants to
24 be able to stay there --
25 MR. DELANEY: You don't know him.
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1 The -- I believe what we've done, as -- as
2 the Secretary's explained, it is
3 self-executing. The transfer happens.
4 We're allowed on the property to inspect
5 it, to make sure it hasn't been used or abused;
6 we've got scientists, et cetera, that are able
7 to go in and make sure that the property is
8 properly maintained.
9 It is right up adjacent to Water Management
10 District properties. We're trying to buy the
11 properties north of there also to make a
12 contiguous corridor.
13 For those of you that are familiar with
14 Jacksonville, it -- it basically is a notch in
15 the middle of a -- in the northern end of the
16 Dee Dot Ranch that's owned by the Davis family.
17 I think the concerns that were expressed by
18 the Cabinet Aides, we've restructured it in a
19 way that it happens automatically.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Mayor,
21 what -- you also filed this with the Clerk's
22 office so it --
23 MR. DELANEY: Yes.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- it will
25 be a cloud on a title then so no one could sell
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1 the property.
2 MR. DELANEY: It is in the deeds, correct.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, what --
4 what are in the dee-- so -- is there going to
5 be a new deed issued when this transaction
6 takes place?
7 MR. DELANEY: Yeah.
8 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
9 What I would like to do is if we -- if we
10 want to get to this level of detail, we
11 actually have the individual here who
12 negotiated it, and could speak to those
13 specific issues.
14 His name is Mr. Greg Chelius.
15 If he wanted to come forward and -- and
16 respond.
17 One of the things I -- while he's coming up
18 here, let me add what I think is an important
19 observation.
20 And that is, we don't know when these
21 individuals will -- will eventually pass away.
22 One of the things that we did in structuring it
23 this way is, number one, make it
24 self-executing.
25 But on the other hand, we wanted to make
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1 sure that the Board of Trustees had one last
2 look at it before they actually accepted the
3 title.
4 The title will be automatically sent to the
5 State. But, again, if it's 30 years from now,
6 things may change. Perhaps a future Cabinet,
7 Board of Trustees, would not want to accept the
8 title --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And we get our
10 money back?
11 MR. STRUHS: -- and at that point the --
12 the point is, 30 years from now, none of us can
13 forecast the future. I think you always want
14 to keep some -- some options open. And I think
15 that's what we've done here.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I'm worried
17 that that little option might be -- might be
18 construed to be something else down the road.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor --
20 Governor --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- I'd -- I'd
23 just -- I'd like to say, I agree with
24 everything that
25 Treasurer/Commissioner Gallagher said --
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1 Agriculture Commissioner Gallagher --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- Chief Financial
4 Officer Gallagher.
5 But -- and I -- I think if -- I think
6 the -- the points are -- obviously are very
7 well taken. But I -- it's my understanding
8 that we've -- we've probably gone as far as we
9 possibly can go with this owner, and there's
10 not any other -- you know, anything else we can
11 do. And under the circumstances, it's still
12 good. And we need to do -- make the best of it
13 we can.
14 And so I'd move the item.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, let me just
16 hear this -- what this deal is.
17 MR. CHELIUS: If I may address,
18 President Gallagher --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I guess I'm
20 willing to serve, you know.
21 MR. CHELIUS: Actually --
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Compromise.
23 MR. CHELIUS: -- actually what -- the
24 question here that we're discussing is a very,
25 very good one.
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1 And if I may, I'll just give you a little
2 bit of background, because initially when we
3 worked on this, a life estate is exactly what
4 we wanted.
5 The landowner is unique. As the Mayor
6 said, his father acquired about eighteen to
7 twenty thousand acres in this area back in the
8 '50s. And this is -- this 3,000 acres that the
9 Water Management District has now acquired a
10 conservation easement on 1200 acres. This
11 1487 acres is the last remaining parcel of
12 where he actually lives.
13 He is eccentric. He's also a recluse.
14 When the Water Management District acquired
15 the 1232 acres, they never met the man
16 personally. I have.
17 And when I discussed a life estate with
18 him, in his opinion, he did not want to be a
19 tenant on his own land.
20 And I told him -- I said, what we're doing
21 here is exactly what a life estate is. If we
22 can buy the fee for a dollar, upon your death,
23 it's a life estate.
24 He said, I don't care. You can buy
25 99.9 percent of what I own, but I want to
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1 retain the fee so that when I live here, I'm
2 not a tenant on my own land.
3 And that was the reason.
4 I don't believe he would do a joint
5 ownership. And what we did to make it as
6 automatic as possible is that upon his death,
7 the personal representative of the estate shall
8 tender a statutory warranty deed to the State.
9 And the receipt of that deed will also have to
10 be a return receipt as requested.
11 Now, you're right, a personal
12 representative may not send that. But I think
13 we have to have some faith and trust. There is
14 an annual review of the conservation easement
15 by the Water Management District. There's a
16 review of the property.
17 The Water Management District has two
18 other -- or the adjoining site, the 1234 acres
19 that they manage on a regular basis, I think
20 the City will want public access.
21 So there's a whole host of things that when
22 they do pass away, I believe enough people will
23 know when the deed's delivered, that someone
24 will say, we need to record this, and the State
25 will own the property.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How about -- how
2 about in their -- in their wills? I mean, is
3 there anything in there that's saying that this
4 property goes to the State, because it's
5 already been paid for?
6 MR. CHELIUS: Actually in their will right
7 now, if the fee -- if the deed was not recorded
8 in their will right now, the property would be
9 deeded to the Nature Conservancy, according to
10 their will. As it's -- as it is today.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And that's been
12 there a while?
13 MR. CHELIUS: Pardon me?
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's been there
15 a while?
16 MR. CHELIUS: I believe so, yeah.
17 That's what their -- their attorney told me
18 about three days ago. Because we kept trying
19 as much as we could to button this up as tight
20 as possible so that it would be as automatic,
21 without actually being a joint tenant with the
22 property, because he just won't do that.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me ask you
24 this: Is it possible to have a -- a warranty
25 deed signed and held in escrow until -- till
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1 their death?
2 That way we know it's there and it's done?
3 MR. CHELIUS: That's another possibility.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, I -- I --
5 I am very concerned about this kind of a
6 precedent.
7 MR. CHELIUS: I -- I agree.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You see, once we
9 do it, I'm telling you, if I own prop-- this is
10 what I'd do.
11 MR. CHELIUS: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I --
13 MR. CHELIUS: We said the same thing to --
14 you know, 25 years from now, I won't be here,
15 and --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
17 MR. CHELIUS: -- you know, people won't be
18 there --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll be the only
20 one here.
21 MR. CHELIUS: -- everyone remember.
22 But we feel with the District owning the
23 property to the south, with the property being
24 managed, the management plan, that the City
25 will review, the State will review, he is a
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1 substantial individual. We just felt there was
2 enough that even 25, 30 years from now, enough
3 people would know, particularly when the deed
4 is delivered.
5 If you'd like, that's something --
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we need to
7 add --
8 MR. CHELIUS: -- we could probably --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we need to
10 add: A warranty deed held in escrow so -- and
11 a -- a copy of it filed with the -- with the --
12 in the City -- or in the County -- in the
13 records so that it's clear that upon his death,
14 that warranty deed clicks in.
15 And then we don't have to worry about
16 somebody --
17 MR. CHELIUS: Uh-hum.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- forgetting to
19 send something in, and then some big fight to
20 go get that -- that fee simple.
21 MR. CHELIUS: Yeah.
22 MR. DELANEY: Well, it's automatic.
23 MR. CHELIUS: That's another possibility.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
25 MR. CHELIUS: It is automatic right now.
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1 You just have to rely on the personal
2 representative --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But, you see, the
4 other way it'll be automatic, you don't have to
5 rely on anybody.
6 MR. CHELIUS: Yeah.
7 MR. DELANEY: All we have to do -- we're
8 going to know when this guy dies. And the
9 District is going to want this land, we want
10 the land, we want to get in there.
11 It is automatic. I mean, it's automatic.
12 If it isn't, you go to Court, and it then is
13 automatic. We have purchased this property.
14 And -- in short, this is a good deal. It's
15 also the best deal we could get. And it's on
16 property that needs to be taken out of
17 development.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I believe
20 that we need to have a warranty --
21 MR. DELANEY: And I'll --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- deed also --
23 MR. DELANEY: -- I'll say this also,
24 Commissioner, that -- that what I think the
25 Advisory Council that's looking at the Florida
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1 For Act (sic) monies is going to recommend that
2 more instruments like this get looked at
3 because it saves money, and it may allow us to
4 purchase land that otherwise would be
5 unpurchaseable by the State.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, they --
7 MR. DELANEY: As they operate towards the
8 State's goal.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- then that
10 carries me to even want that warranty deed
11 signed even more, because we're setting a
12 precedent here that I think that ought to be
13 included and put in escrow. It will save
14 anybody from having to do anything. And --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that a -- is that a
16 viable option, given --
17 MR. DELANEY: I don't know. I think we've,
18 in effect, got the same thing.
19 I mean, in effect, that's when --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, that's
21 good --
22 MR. DELANEY: -- when we get the title, and
23 we deliver the check, that's really what --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Then --
25 MR. DELANEY: -- happens --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- tell him --
2 MR. DELANEY: -- we've got a binding
3 contract.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Tell him that's
5 the same thing, and get it signed, and put it
6 in escrow, and we're all -- I'm going to be
7 happy.
8 I'm going to make a motion that they do
9 that.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: I -- I -- I would be
11 cautious about adding conditions in this
12 particular case, knowing a little bit about
13 the -- about the owner.
14 Just to give everybody a little bit of
15 history on this. This is a -- Mayor Delaney
16 and I are close friends.
17 And -- and he got very angry at me a --
18 earlier in the spring, because I vetoed a line
19 item appropriation to purchase this, and
20 suggested that there was a process to go
21 through, which the City and the
22 Water Management District and the
23 Department of Environmental Protection had --
24 did, and now it's -- it's a beautiful property,
25 and it is worthy of a CARL designation.
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1 And so we actually saved a little bit of
2 money going through that process. The State
3 I believe was at 25 million --
4 MR. DELANEY: Yeah.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in the line item?
6 And so he's my friend again, and I'm going
7 to make sure that we're supportive of this --
8 MR. DELANEY: We always were.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and we think it's the
10 right thing --
11 I know we were.
12 But I think this is the right thing to do.
13 And, you know, when you're buying property, you
14 don't -- it's not always setting a precedent
15 when you have a willing buyer, but an unus-- a
16 willing seller, but an unusual one.
17 I mean, this gentleman is --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You're on
19 national TV, Governor.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's a fine gentleman. But
21 he's just different.
22 And -- and I think every circumstance is a
23 little bit different, and I think it's
24 appropriate for our team to be able to have
25 some flexibility to do different kinds of
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1 things to save money and to be able to purchase
2 properties otherwise we couldn't have
3 purchased.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- if I may.
7 I -- I certainly understand the mentality
8 of someone who wants to own the land. I think
9 you see that in a lot of the old Florida
10 crackers, and that makes sense.
11 But, Mayor, if I may, I -- in the
12 discussion, it was said that in his will, he's
13 leaving it to the Nature Conservancy.
14 Is there a reason why we're purchasing it
15 when it would be -- would have the same
16 conservation aspects? Or can you explain the
17 difference?
18 MR. CHELIUS: Well, again, what we're
19 acquiring is a conservation easement that's
20 99.9 percent of all the rights of the property.
21 His will was made out a couple of years ago
22 before this transaction even came up. And in
23 the will, had he passed on, he was leaving the
24 property to the Nature Conservancy.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
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1 MR. CHELIUS: He may change that. I -- I
2 really don't think that's as much an issue here
3 as what we're buying today is 99.9 percent of
4 the rights to the property, with a fairly good
5 assurance that upon his death, the deed will be
6 delivered to the State of Florida, and the
7 State will then own 100 percent of the rights
8 to the property.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, the -- the issue
10 is, and I just wanted to clarify, if he was
11 going to leave it to the Nature Conservancy, I
12 wasn't really -- if that's what he's going to
13 do in his will, I didn't understand why we were
14 actually purchasing it.
15 MR. CHELIUS: Yeah.
16 MR. DELANEY: He's --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Because you've got
18 to change that -- both.
19 MR. DELANEY: -- changed on that.
20 He has before the City Council now --
21 trying to get applications for the permit to
22 develop roughly a quarter of this land.
23 I think Greg was trying to illustrate a
24 point there, that there is -- there are ways
25 through the will to turn the property over.
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1 He's interested in the money.
2 MR. CHELIUS: Right -- yeah. Right now
3 he's devel-- he would develop the property --
4 had he died -- if he died tomorrow and his wife
5 died tomorrow, then, in fact, the property
6 would go to the Nature Conservancy.
7 MR. STRUHS: Or -- or he could change his
8 will tomorrow as well.
9 MR. CHELIUS: Or he could change his will
10 tomorrow, right.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I really --
12 I really feel strongly that we don't -- he
13 doesn't need to deed it over, and it would be
14 in escrow, and he'd get -- and it would
15 automatically come over upon both their deaths.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you -- you want to
17 make a motion so that we can move on?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And kill it if you
19 want. I made the motion.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Secon--
22 What was the -- I'm sorry --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You don't want to
24 second it.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you might want to.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Not from your
3 earlier -- not from your earlier concerns.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the escrow of the --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- warranty?
7 No second.
8 Very good.
9 There's a -- any other discussion?
10 There's a motion and a second on the
11 purchase of this property.
12 All -- everybody that says in favor of it,
13 say yes.
14 THE CABINET: Yes.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
16 Treasurer?
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
18 MR. DELANEY: Thank you, Governor.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
20 MR. CHELIUS: Thank you.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was an enthusiastic
23 yes by Commissioner/Treasurer Gallagher.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
25 our first city for a Capital of a Day was --
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1 was Jacksonville.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It was.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And that
4 was -- that was a wonderful --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mayor, don't leave yet.
6 I think someone --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- it was a
8 wonderful experience, Mayor, when we did the --
9 our first, in the history of the state, going
10 outside of Tallahassee for the Capital for a
11 Day. You hosted us wonderfully, and it was an
12 excellent -- excellent thing.
13 I would hope you invite us back again.
14 I think some event is occurring in your city in
15 the near future?
16 MR. DELANEY: SuperBowl?
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah. Oh,
18 that's right.
19 And -- and perhaps, Governor, maybe we
20 can -- we can adjourn a Cabinet meeting on the
21 50 yard line before the -- not -- not to be
22 there for any special reason. But I think it
23 might be just, you know --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's above the gift limit.
25 I can't go. Maybe you can.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I can't.
2 It's above my limit, too.
3 But if we have a Cabinet meeting, that
4 might --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But somebody'll
6 sell you tickets, if you want to buy one, I'm
7 sure.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know. But they cost,
9 like, 400 bucks.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's about
11 600 now, Governor.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Six hundred.
13 Well, we can stay in a cruise ship, too.
14 It'll be --
15 MR. DELANEY: That would be great.
16 Although --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Congratulations.
18 MR. DELANEY: -- like most everybody here,
19 with the exception of Commissioner Gallagher,
20 we'll all be out of office by the time the
21 SuperBowl's in.
22 We may not get the same invitation.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm staying till I
24 get --
25 MR. DELANEY: But you're always welcome --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that deed. I'm
2 not leaving till the deed comes.
3 MR. DELANEY: Governor, you're always
4 welcome in Jacksonville.
5 Thank you.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
7 MR. STRUHS: Our fifth and final item is
8 the Mount Royal Village Archaeological site.
9 This is an emergency acquisition. Actually
10 it's not an acquisition. It's simply getting
11 your acquiescence to begin the process of
12 acquiring the land.
13 Under the --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's not -- it's not less
15 than fee simple, I hope.
16 MR. STRUHS: No. This -- if it -- if it is
17 pursued, and it is executed, it would be a --
18 it would be a fee simple acquisition.
19 Under the Preservation 2000 program, there
20 is money set aside for emergency archeological
21 acquisitions. And this is an acknowledgment,
22 if you approve it, by -- by you that the
23 Division of Historical Resources and Division
24 of State Lands have complied with
25 Section 253.027 of the Florida Statutes.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a second.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just want --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Wit--
7 Yes.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor, I just wanted
9 to say a couple of things about this piece of
10 property.
11 We're going -- I hope we're going to move
12 forward in this process to acquire it. But it
13 really does have some interesting history. One
14 of the famous Flemish engravers from the 1500s
15 actually first began in copying some famous
16 paintings by LeMoyne and doing this, the
17 engravings of the Timucuan Indians. It's about
18 a 4,000 year old site.
19 And if you look at your aerials, you can
20 actually see a causeway, which is the only one
21 of its kind from north of Kissimmee from the
22 temple mount all the way out is very strategic.
23 You can see on to -- to Hog Island and
24 Drayton Island.
25 And so I'm looking forward to -- to the
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1 opportunity and -- to examine this acquisition.
2 Also, Bartram, who's probably the foremost
3 naturalist in -- in the 19th century that
4 published Bartram's Travels, talks about it
5 exhaustively in his book.
6 And for any of you -- I just thought it was
7 cool.
8 See? You can see the -- the temple mount
9 and the causeway -- an actual causeway that
10 it -- that was going on whenever he was -- he
11 was there examining it.
12 So I brought some of those engravings
13 and -- and -- because this is simply more
14 than -- it started as an Indian village, and
15 then a mission, and then a plantation. So it
16 has a very colorful and rich history for
17 Florida's past. And I think it's important for
18 a CARL acquisition.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
20 Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you,
24 Secretary Struhs.
25 Thank you all very much.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: All right.
2 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
3 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
4 * * *
5 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
6 10:38 a.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 107 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 1ST day of DECEMBER, 2000.
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22
LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
23 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
24 850/878-2221
25
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