T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
CONFIRMATION OF SECRETARY OF
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
VOTE ON 1999 CABINET CALENDAR
VOTE ON PAY RAISES FOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
November 10, 1998, commencing at approximately
9:50 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
LAWTON CHILES
Governor
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
SANDRA B. MORTHAM
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
*
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
3
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 CONFIRMATION OF SECRETARY OF
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION:
4
Approved 5
5
VOTE ON 1999 CABINET CALENDAR:
6
Approved 6
7
VOTE ON PAY RAISES FOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS:
8
Approved 9
9
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
10 (Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
11
1 Approved 10
12 2 Approved 11
3 Approved 11
13 4 Approved 11
14 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Timothy Tinsley,
15 Manager of Bond Programs)
16 1 Approved 14
2 Approved 14
17 3 Approved 14
4 Approved 15
18
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
19 (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
20
1 Approved 16
21 2 Withdrawn 16
3 Information Only 17
22 4 Approved 23
5 Approved 28
23 6 Deferred 28
7 Approved 29
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
4
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1
I N D E X
2 (Continued)
3 ITEM ACTION PAGE
4 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
5 Secretary)
6 1 Approved 30
2 Approved 30
7 3 Approved 30
4 Approved 31
8
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
9 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
10 Secretary)
11 1 Approved 32
2 Deferred 32
12
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
13 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND:
(Presented Kirby B. Green, III,
14 Secretary)
15 1 Approved 33
Substitute 2 Deferred 34
16 3 Approved 35
4 Approved 35
17 5 Approved 35
6 Approved 36
18 7 Approved 36
8 Approved 36
19 9 Approved 36
Substitute 10 Approved 71
20 Substitute 11 Approved 71
12 Approved 71
21 13 Approved 71
22 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 82
23 *
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
CONFIRMATION OF DEP SECRETARY 5
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:21 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: We need a motion for the
4 confirmation of Kirby Green as the Secretary of
5 the Department of Environmental Protection.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll move it.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
10 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
11 THE CABINET: Aye.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
13 The -- the motion is adopted.
14 (The Confirmation of Kirby Green as the
15 Secretary of the Department of Environmental
16 was concluded.)
17 *
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
1999 CABINET CALENDAR 6
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: We need a vote on the
2 calendar agenda -- Cabinet calendar for 1999.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's adopted.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Do you really
8 care about it?
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No. That's why I moved
10 it.
11 (The Vote on the 1999 Cabinet Calendar was
12 concluded.)
13 *
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE ON PAY RAISES FOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS 7
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: We need a -- a vote on the
2 pay raises for Executive Directors.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, earlier this
4 year, we approved the '98-'99 budget for the
5 State Board of Administration, which included a
6 5 percent salary increase for all SBA
7 employees.
8 And I think as a measure to recognize the
9 outstanding work of our Executive Directors,
10 and the work that they've done this past year,
11 and as a vote of confidence, as they continue
12 to serve, I think that we should also increase
13 their salaries by 5 percent. These agencies
14 have performed admirably, and the Directors
15 deserve to be rewarded for their hard work.
16 They have had outstanding successes and
17 achievements that we have recognized in the
18 course of many of these Cabinet meetings.
19 For example, FDLE had met or exceeded 55 of
20 their 69 performance standards, and had a
21 19 percent increase in the number of completed
22 investigations without having any additional
23 personnel.
24 In the Department of Revenue, and we
25 already recognized this, it was awarded the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE ON PAY RAISES FOR EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS 8
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 prestigious Sterling Council Award, which is no
2 little achievement, and that's the first time a
3 State agency in Florida has achieved such
4 recognition. And we've already chronicled here
5 in the Department of Highway Safety and Motor
6 Vehicles the extraordinary improvement to
7 customer service at the driver's license
8 offices.
9 So, Governor, I move that pay raise item
10 for the Executive Directors.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'll second
12 it, Governor. Even though this means that
13 they'll be getting paid more than Cabinet
14 members, I think that's still -- that's still
15 all right.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
17 seconded.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- the original proposal
21 was two -- was it two-and-a-half, same as other
22 employees.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Two seven eight or --
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Two seven eight?
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE ON PAY RAISES/EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS 9
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And,
2 Commissioner Nelson, could you give the totals
3 for each of the proposed at 5 percent?
4 TREASURER NELSON: You want the total
5 salary?
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes, please.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Tim Moore, a hundred and
8 fifteen oh five oh; Larry Fuchs, a hundred and
9 fourteen four eight one; Fred Dickinson, a
10 hundred and fourteen four eight one;
11 Carlos Rainwater, a hundred and ten
12 five sixty-three.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. So many as
14 favor the motion, signify by saying aye.
15 THE CABINET: Aye.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: The ayes have it.
19 Motion is adopted.
20 (The Vote on Pay Raises for Executive
21 Directors was concluded.)
22 *
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 10
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: The next Cabinet meeting
2 will be November 24th, 1998.
3 State Board of Administration.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- we have
7 a -- the United Way report --
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
10 Administration.
11 MR. HERNDON: Item number 1 is approval of
12 the minutes of the meeting held on
13 October 27th, 1998.
14 TREASURER NELSON: And I move it.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. HERNDON: Item number 2 is approval of
19 the fiscal sufficiency not exceeding
20 eight million eight hundred thousand dollars,
21 State of Florida, Board of Regents,
22 University of Central Florida, parking facility
23 revenue bonds.
24 TREASURER NELSON: I'll move it.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item number 3 is approval of a
4 fiscal sufficiency not exceeding 10 million
5 dollars for the State of Florida, Board of
6 Regents, University of Florida parking facility
7 revenue bond.
8 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that one.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. HERNDON: Item number 4 is the Florida
13 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund requesting approval
14 of three rules. Those rules amend Chapter
15 19-8.011, Chapter 19-8.013, and Chapter
16 19.8025.
17 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that one.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, the three rules are --
21 MR. HERNDON: That completes --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- are approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: -- the agenda.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask:
25 I've noticed that the market has certainly had
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 12
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 a run-up in the last week.
2 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Where -- where does that
4 bring us in our overall portfolio?
5 MR. HERNDON: We are still down about 5 to
6 6 percent from the peak, which was July 17th.
7 That translates into approximately 2 billion
8 dollars, a little over --
9 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
10 MR. HERNDON: -- 2 billion dollars with
11 yesterday's market actions. But we've
12 recovered well in excess of 13 percent of the
13 losses that had occurred during that
14 correction, that July 17th to October slide.
15 And we're certainly very pleased with the way
16 the market has performed.
17 And we were also able, as I believe we
18 communicated to -- to each of the Trustees,
19 able to take tactical opportunity occasionally
20 during that market correction by some -- some
21 equities that particularly good -- attract the
22 prices that'll help us in the long-term.
23 So we're doing well. The pension fund is
24 back up over 84 billion dollars now.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 13
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
2 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
3 was concluded.)
4 *
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 14
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. TINSLEY: Item number 1's approval of
3 minutes of the October 13th meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, the minutes are
8 approved.
9 MR. TINSLEY: Item number 2 is adoption of a
10 resolution authorizing competitive sale of not
11 exceeding 10 million dollars, University of
12 Florida parking revenue bonds.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
17 MR. TINSLEY: Item number 3 is adoption of a
18 resolution authorizing a competitive sale of
19 not exceeding 8.8 million dollars, University
20 of Central Florida parking revenue bonds.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. TINSLEY: And Item number 4 is report of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 15
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 award of 240.2 million dollars in PECO bonds.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, that's approved.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
7 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
8 concluded.)
9 *
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 16
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1, minutes of the meeting
3 held September 23rd, 1998.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, the minutes are
8 approved.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2, authorization of
10 eminent domain leasehold from Miami-Dade
11 Community College. That item is withdrawn.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move withdrawal.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll second that.
15 And, Governor, if I could just very quickly
16 say thank you to Mike Olenick, who is the
17 General Counsel for the Department of
18 Education, and Bob Ballard, who's with Cabinet
19 staff, who helped to broker that particular
20 agreement. That was a pretty sticky wicket,
21 and they went down and brokered this
22 arrangement.
23 And we want to thank both of them for that.
24 And it looks like it's going to work very
25 favorably for both parties.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 17
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is an annual review of
4 academic program contracts between -- between
5 the State Board of Education and Florida
6 Independent Postsecondary Institutions, which
7 is presented for information only.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's received.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is a master plan for
10 Florida Postsecondary Education. You have a --
11 a brief presentation by Bill Proctor from PEPC;
12 and Dr. Robert A. Bryan, who's the Chairman of
13 the Master Plan Committee.
14 DR. BRYAN: Governor Chiles,
15 Commissioner Brogan, members of the State Board
16 of Education, you have before you a document
17 called Challenges and Choices. It is the
18 five-year plan -- master plan for higher
19 education -- public higher education in the
20 state of Florida.
21 This plan has been constructed over a
22 period of seven months, eight months. Public
23 hearings were held throughout the state of
24 Florida. We had extraordinary cooperation from
25 the Board of Regents and the State -- State
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 18
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Board of Community Colleges, who came to all of
2 these public hearings, and participated with us
3 in our deliberations as we began to draw up the
4 document you now have.
5 The document is essentially divided into
6 four major topics: Access; that is, the access
7 of students to the institutions, public
8 institutions of higher education;
9 interdependence, a seamless system; outcomes;
10 that is, productivity and the quality of the
11 graduate who is produced; and, of course,
12 funding.
13 Our first problem is, of course, access to
14 the community colleges of the state, and the
15 State universities. As you have heard, I'm
16 sure over and over again, we have an extremely
17 explosive situation in terms of the number of
18 college age students. To deal with those
19 recommendations which the Commission has made
20 about that problem, I ask Dr. Proctor to say a
21 few words.
22 DR. PROCTOR: Thank you.
23 We broke our recommendations down into two
24 sections, short-term and long-term. As
25 you know, we only have 38 public institutions
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 19
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 in the state of Florida, and we have one of the
2 largest states in the nation.
3 Short-term recommendations basically would
4 be to increase enrollment at existing
5 institutions; increase use of the independent
6 sector. We already use them, you had the
7 contract report in front of you. We have the
8 resident access grant; and expand distance
9 learning.
10 We're looking at some long-term options for
11 the state of Florida, and I'm not going to go
12 through those. One of the most popular right
13 now is using joint use, colocation of
14 facilities, and those things.
15 We're also looking at things some other
16 states are doing. They have more baccalaureate
17 institutions. Chancellor Reed went to the
18 state of California, which actually has an
19 entire system.
20 What we will do on the long-term options is
21 in February we'll come out with a supplement to
22 the master plan with recommendations of
23 long-term and short-term. The Board of
24 Regents, the State Board of Community College,
25 and our Commissioner, are all working on these
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 20
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 long-term options right now.
2 Thank you.
3 DR. BRYAN: The -- the second topic that the
4 Challenges and Choices takes up is
5 Interdependence, a seamless system.
6 Now, let me just give you a little
7 historical note on the use of the word seamless
8 in this context.
9 It was first used at least 30 years ago by
10 then Senator Phil Lewis, who is now a member of
11 the Florida State Board of Regents. He was
12 concerned then, is concerned now, as all of us
13 are, in making sure that you can go from
14 elementary school to middle school to
15 high school to community college to university
16 without any bumps, without any bureaucracy,
17 without any difficulty whatsoever in terms of
18 transferring.
19 And so the -- the report deals with the
20 ways in which we can achieve a seamless system
21 in public education in Florida.
22 The third section deals with outcomes, the
23 productivity. Our productivity of
24 baccalaureate degrees, our productivity of A.S.
25 and -- and degrees and our productivity and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 21
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 our -- and the quality of the graduate that we
2 are sending out into the world.
3 To deal with some of those issues, I ask
4 Bill to help me.
5 DR. PROCTOR: No longer is a high school
6 diploma enough to be employed in the work
7 force. Right now we have about 50 percent of
8 all of our graduates going on to postsecondary
9 education in some form. We have set out goals
10 for the year 2000, the year 2010, of 65 and
11 75 percent of the graduates getting into some
12 form of postsecondary education.
13 We spent a lot of time talking about
14 baccalaureate attainment. We're below the
15 national average in baccalaureate attainment
16 and have set out targets to be an 80 perc-- to
17 have 80 percent of what the top ten strong
18 economies have as far as their graduates by the
19 year 2000, and 90 percent by the year 2010.
20 And another thing that we need to focus on,
21 and I think the I-4 corridor is an excellent
22 example of the partnership of business,
23 industry, and our higher education system on
24 providing economic development. We need to do
25 more things like that.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 22
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 DR. BRYAN: And the fourth, last, but
2 certainly not least topic, is funding. How do
3 we fund these various goals that the Commission
4 and the people of Florida, as we understand
5 their input from these public meetings, how do
6 we fund these goals?
7 We have four recommendations: One, revise
8 the State University System funding methodology
9 to reflect the actual cost of instruction at
10 each level: Freshman, sophomore, junior,
11 senior, graduate; particularly the difference
12 between the undergraduate and the graduate
13 costs in instruction.
14 I'm pleased to tell you that the State --
15 State Legislature has begun to change its
16 system of funding along those lines.
17 Number two, move to at least the national
18 average in tuition and need based aid.
19 Increase the tuition, increase need based aid
20 to the national level.
21 Three, cap the -- pardon me. In the same
22 part -- another part of recommendation two, cap
23 the cost -- cap the share of the instructional
24 costs to be borne by students at 25 percent.
25 This seems to be a national average.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 23
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Three, extend coverage of local fees by the
2 Prepaid Tuition Program, and provide greater
3 scholarship outreach to students from lower
4 income families.
5 And, four, include the independent sector
6 in the enrollment estimating process. As we go
7 along, the cooperation, and I would say almost
8 the -- the interdependence between the public
9 and the private sector grows each year. And
10 they should be included in that process.
11 That's a summary, members of the Cabinet,
12 of -- of the report you have before you.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, sir.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, the report is adopted.
18 Thank you very much.
19 DR. PROCTOR: Thank you.
20 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is the Florida
21 Commission on Education Reform and
22 Accountability annual report.
23 Senator Phil Lewis will speak on this item.
24 SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning,
25 distinguished --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 24
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
2 SENATOR LEWIS: -- members of the Cabinet.
3 Governor. Pleasure to be here.
4 I think you've already received a copy of
5 the annual report. We hope that you will study
6 it carefully, as you have in the past. And we
7 only have 66 recommendations to keep you all
8 busy and to keep the Legislature busy for
9 awhile.
10 We want to really thank -- take this
11 opportunity to thank all of you for the support
12 during the last few years. This has not been
13 an easy task. It's been a tough one. And
14 the -- but the toughest part of this task is
15 just coming.
16 We've come up with many programs at the
17 guidance of both Lieutenant Governor MacKay,
18 and Frank. He's done a great job.
19 Secretary Mortham, you've been with us all
20 since the time you were in the House. And you
21 passed this prestigious bill and got it moving.
22 And then you became a member of the Commission,
23 and we trained you and made you eligible for a
24 statewide job.
25 We wish you well in the future.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 25
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Commissioner Brogan, and MacKay --
2 Commissioner Brogan, we have elevated you to
3 Lieutenant Governor. You will now be the
4 Vice-Chairman again -- or not the
5 Vice-Chairman. I'm the Vice-Chairman. I've
6 just got to get that straight. I have a
7 difficulty with that identification problem.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm a little title
9 burdened these days myself. So --
10 SENATOR LEWIS: But you're the Co-Chairman
11 with the -- as Lieutenant Governor.
12 Buddy MacKay, we want to thank both of you for
13 all the efforts you've put forth the last
14 couple of years.
15 And lastly, Governor Chiles, you have been
16 a very big supporter of us and this education
17 program.
18 The Reform and Accountability Act, which
19 was passed, got practically no recognition by
20 the media at all. For whatever reason, I don't
21 know. There wasn't any sex involved, and there
22 wasn't any secret meetings involved, even
23 though I called a few of them to get their
24 attention. But nothing happened.
25 So I would ask that -- we've had 50 public
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 26
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 hearings from around -- all over this state.
2 Some of them were exciting, some of them were
3 rather blase. But, nevertheless, we have had
4 our share of public hearings.
5 I want to thank you all for the last time,
6 and to thank the staff. Staff is here -- and
7 then Gene Prough, and Representative Murman.
8 She's just made -- she's been made queen of
9 education.
10 Is that right?
11 And we're glad to have her, and she's on
12 our Commission as well.
13 You all have done a great job. But as I've
14 mentioned to you, your job is just beginning.
15 There is a rule coming up on what's called
16 F-CAT, and I want to tell you, that is where
17 the rubber meets the road. That is where we're
18 going to see where all of this education
19 business is going.
20 The ed-- Governor's Education Commission
21 adopted a rule that said, don't flinch. And
22 don't flinch is what you're going to have to
23 do. Because this rule is going to make
24 everybody straighten up.
25 And it's something we ought to do. And I
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 27
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 hope that you will do so when the time comes.
2 Again, I want to thank you for your
3 attention. I can remember some of the days
4 that this group spent 4 or 5 hours listening to
5 our proposals. And I have to tell you, that's
6 not usual for the Cabinet. But you all did it.
7 Also, the previous speakers talked about
8 the seamless system, pre-K through the
9 university. The Regents have a subcommittee on
10 that. I chaired it for awhile, and then
11 John Moreland is chairing it currently.
12 And to think how we've changed our thoughts
13 and processes on pre-K through the university
14 system in the last five or six years is very
15 gratifying. I've thought about that for a long
16 time. All of education is connected. You
17 can't just say K-12 by itself, community
18 college by itself, and the universities by
19 themself.
20 Teachers come from universities, in case
21 some of you haven't thought about that. But
22 that's where they come from. And they -- we
23 all are integrated in this whole system. And
24 we've come a long ways, but we've got a long
25 ways to go.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 28
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 I thank you. We've got to -- and I
2 appreciate your time and effort.
3 See you soon.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: We thank you and the
5 Commission for its tremendous efforts in this
6 regard, and your perseverance. And I trust
7 that the -- that the Governor and the Cabinet
8 will follow through and see that the F-CAT
9 scores are -- are held valid, and that we -- we
10 hit the rubber and the road to --
11 SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Governor.
12 Thank you all.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'll move
14 approval.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 6, capital outlay and
19 debt service bond program software contract.
20 We request that be deferred until November 24th
21 meeting.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move deferral.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's deferred.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 29
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MR. PIERSON: Item 7, 6A-1.0451, amendments,
2 Florida Education Finance Program Student
3 Membership Surveys.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, that's approved.
9 MR. PIERSON: Thank you.
10 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
11 concluded.)
12 *
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 30
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, recommend
4 approval of the minutes for the meeting held
5 October 27th, 1998.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend
11 approval of the transfer of general revenue
12 appropriations for the Department of Community
13 Affairs.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, that's approved.
18 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, recommend
19 approval of a trust fund loan for the
20 Department of Environmental Protection.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, that's approved.
25 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 4, recommend
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 31
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 approval of a trust fund loan for the
2 Department of Agriculture and Consumer
3 Services.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, that's approved.
8 DR. BRADLEY: That concludes --
9 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
10 concluded.)
11 *
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 32
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of the
5 September 23rd --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
7 DR. BRADLEY: -- 1998, meeting.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, the minutes are
11 approved.
12 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request
13 deferral of Item number 2 to the November 24th,
14 1998, meeting.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move deferral.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's deferred.
20 DR. BRADLEY: That concludes the agenda.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
22 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
23 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
24 *
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 33
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees,
2 Internal Improvement Trust Fund.
3 MR. GREEN: Item 1, approvement -- approval
4 of a management plan for the designation of
5 Guana Tolomato Matanzas National Estuary
6 Research Reserve in Flagler and St. Johns
7 County.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, that's approved.
13 We want to thank the citizens advisory
14 council for that.
15 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir. If I could at this
16 time, we have a number of those members with us.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
18 MR. GREEN: And I'd like to recognize them.
19 And then after the meeting today, we're going
20 to give them --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Please do so --
22 MR. GREEN: -- them plaques.
23 If I could have them stand as I -- as I
24 call their names. Chris Benjamin,
25 Rick Gleeson, Bill Hamilton, Pat Hamilton,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 34
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Barbara Ward-Newman, Susan Van Hoek, and
2 Larry Perry.
3 This group represent the advisory council
4 for the -- the NERR. They've spent since 1991
5 in preparation of this plan, moving it towards
6 approval, and should be applauded for their --
7 their efforts.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: We want to thank you very
9 much for your -- your long and -- and great
10 efforts in this regard. We're delighted to see
11 the plan approved.
12 Thank you.
13 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Governor.
14 Substitute Item 2, recommend deferral until
15 December 8th.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move -- move deferral.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, Item 2 is deferred.
20 Substitute --
21 MR. GREEN: Item --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- Item 2.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 3, an option agreement to
24 acquire 818.7 acres in the Bell Meade project.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 35
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, Item 3 is approved.
4 MR. GREEN: Item 4, two purchase agreements
5 to acquire 10.31 acres in the
6 Coupon Bight/Key Deer --
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 MR. GREEN: -- Preserve.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, Item 4 is approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 6, authorization to acquire
13 an undivided 50 percent interest in 104 acres.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: This is Item 5?
16 MR. GREEN: Excuse me. Item 5 is
17 authorization to acquire 100 percent interest
18 in 30 acres in the Corkscrew Regional
19 Ecosystem.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, Item 5 is approved.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 6, authorization to acquire
25 an undivided 50 percent interest in 104 acres.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 36
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, that's approved.
5 MR. GREEN: Item 7 is an option agreement to
6 acquire 6.15 acres in the McKay Bay project.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, Item 7 is approved.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 8 is request not to assert
12 claim of ownership to certain sovereign
13 submerged lands, and Lake Walk-in-Water.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, Item 8 is approved.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 9, authorization to
19 encumber specific parcels of State-owned lands
20 as a condition of receipt of Federal grant
21 money.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, Item 9 is approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 37
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 10 is request
2 approval of management plan for the Wekiva
3 Basin GEOpark.
4 Governor, we have a number of speakers on
5 this item. I would recommend that we allocate
6 15 minutes per side.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Fifteen minutes per side.
8 All right.
9 MR. GREEN: Okay. The first speaker is
10 Bill Morse, followed by Virginia Mapel,
11 followed by Logan Katz.
12 MR. MORSE: Governor, distinguished Cabinet,
13 my name is Bill Morse. I'm an insurance agent
14 from Apopka, Florida. I'm up here at my own
15 expense. This is the fifth time we've been up
16 here to talk about --
17 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
18 MR. MORSE: -- Wekiva Springs Park.
19 I would like to refer you to
20 Florida Statutes about the use of State-owned
21 lands, 253.034. It speaks to the use of
22 multiple purposes. It's clear that it's only
23 allowed in cases where conservation and goal of
24 the Board of Trustees, the Internal Improvement
25 Fund are being complied with.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 38
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Florida Statute 258.037, under State Parks
2 and Preserves: It shall be the policy of the
3 Division of Recreation and Parks to conserve
4 these natural values for all time in such a
5 manner as to enable the people of Florida and
6 visitors to enjoy these values without
7 depleting them.
8 Conditions of the use of park lands, the
9 use of natural resource land by linear
10 facilities avoidance. Owners and operators of
11 linear -- linear facilities must avoid locating
12 on natural resource lands unless no other
13 practical and prudent alternative is available.
14 We do have two viable alternate plans
15 available. One of them is a longer route, and
16 it goes out to the west. It goes through -- of
17 the Wekiva Springs Park. It goes by the
18 lake -- the Apopka 400 acre recreational
19 center, it goes by a golf course, it goes by
20 1,000 homes. It's a longer route, it's more
21 expensive.
22 The shorter route is up Rock Springs Road,
23 State Road 435, which has already been approved
24 at one time by Orange County, and we have
25 surveys showing that.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 39
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 I would suggest to you, too, that we had
2 1200 signatures from citizens of Apopka area
3 saying that they oppose the route through the
4 park.
5 Now, if you look at the costs, the park
6 route is 4.5 miles in the park. But when you
7 do the deviation back to the east, you have
8 5.3 miles long.
9 Two hundred and sixty thousand dollars per
10 mile is the cost of construction. If you use
11 concrete, which is suggested in the park,
12 you're talking about 30 percent or better
13 increased costs.
14 We're looking at a million eight hundred
15 thousand dollars to go through the park, as
16 well as destruction of 27 acres of pristine
17 land.
18 On the other hand, if you go up Rock
19 Springs Road, which you all have -- should have
20 copies of these from the Aides -- you're
21 looking at 3.5 miles, or a total cost of
22 $910,000. That is a savings of $881,000.
23 And I suggest to you that if you looked at
24 this piece of paper, and you said, this piece
25 of paper represents the entire cost of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 40
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Rock Springs -- going through the park and
2 destroying the 27 acres, if you took that and
3 you cut it in half, you're looking at saving
4 $900,000.
5 And my plea to you is, let's save the land
6 that we already own, let's go the shorter
7 route, go from directly up to Kelly Park. I
8 plead with you to do that.
9 Semper fi.
10 MR. GREEN: Yes, ma'am.
11 MS. MAPEL: Good morning, Governor; good
12 morning, distinguished Cabinet members.
13 In several of our earlier presentations, we
14 have cited quite a few facts, and some of them
15 very general in nature. One of them was that
16 there are only about 1500 of the Florida black
17 bear remaining.
18 Well, we can reduce that to 499, as you
19 will look in that packet. This young female
20 was killed November the 6th, this very past
21 Friday, at 7:00 a.m. in the morning. She was
22 on her way back into Wekiva Springs State Park.
23 While bears are considered to be nocturnal,
24 they may begin moving to and from feeding areas
25 several hours before dark, and several hours
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 41
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 after sunrise.
2 Location of the West Orange Trail in the
3 western boundary will significantly disturb the
4 bear cubbing area that exists in this park, as
5 well as the feeding habits and the herd
6 viability.
7 This 150 pound female was in an area that
8 is now being developed, nine hundred plus
9 homes. We're making the corridor tighter and
10 tighter.
11 It makes absolutely no sense to give away
12 more bear habitat when the State recently
13 purchased bear habitat north of this area, as
14 well as building a million dollar tunnel on
15 State Road 46.
16 Much has been said by the County about the
17 unsafe conditions on County Road 435,
18 Rock Springs Road. It's a strange situation
19 that safety only becomes the concern when
20 there's a possibility to acquire easement on
21 State land free.
22 Safety's not been a concern, not even
23 mentioned on phase II where the West Orange
24 Trail travels along County Road 435, nor have
25 driveways or street crossings been a concern.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 42
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Further, no concern has been cited on the
2 proposed phases III and IV, which travels the
3 most congested area of County Road 435.
4 Two miles of proposed West Orange Trail
5 traveled by the U.S. Post Office, Orange County
6 Service Building, public shopping center, and a
7 trucking terminal.
8 Then the proposed trail leaves
9 County Road 435 300 yards shy of Rock Springs
10 Elementary, which would certainly be better
11 served if the West Orange Trail continued down
12 County Road 435.
13 In this last segment of County Road 435 to
14 Kelly Park, there are only 37 parcels of land
15 with 22 driveways, and five street crossings.
16 It's no more unsafe there than in any other
17 section of the already constructed or proposed
18 West Orange Trail.
19 Again, I wish to apologize. I did not
20 introduce myself. My name is Virginia Mapel.
21 I am a retired educator, teacher,
22 administrator, and nursery woman.
23 Thank you so much for your time.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
25 MR. GREEN: Logan Katz.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 43
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MR. KATZ: Good morning, Governor, Cabinet.
2 My name is Logan Katz, as some of you know.
3 And this is my second time coming up here to
4 discuss the issue -- the trail you want to
5 build in Wekiva State Park.
6 By building the trail, it's going to take
7 away -- I don't know mathematically, but it's
8 going to take away a lot of the animals' homes
9 when you build the trail.
10 Now, a trail would be a great idea, just
11 not through the side of Wekiva State Park.
12 I've been bird bending, which is taking --
13 I've helped the birds by -- or the biologists
14 at Wekiva State Park, and they trap birds in
15 nets, and they record them, and, you know, take
16 their -- all their weight and stuff, and then
17 they let them go to track their migration.
18 And by taking away some of their habitat,
19 you might lessen the birds we catch.
20 My main question is: When I'm, you know,
21 sixty, seventy years old, and I have
22 grandchildren, will I get to show them a deer
23 track or a bear track in the sand, or am I
24 going to get to show them a paved trail.
25 That's it.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 44
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 Appreciate your coming.
3 MR. GREEN: The next three speakers are
4 Nancy Prine, representing the Friends of
5 Wekiva; Eva Armstrong, Florida Audubon; and
6 Cheryl McPherson, Sierra Club.
7 MS. PRINE: Good morning.
8 I'm Nancy Prine, Board member of Friends of
9 the Wekiva River. Thank you for allowing us to
10 be here.
11 I'm usually speaking on behalf of DEP, and
12 I find myself in somewhat of an awkward
13 position this morning, but here goes.
14 In Orange County, we have an excellent
15 trail system. It's been -- it's been
16 recognized for its excellence. It takes us
17 from one area of the county, and takes us
18 through to another. As I said, an excellent
19 trail.
20 But the one thing about this trail is that
21 there is noise, it's -- it's an active
22 recreation. There is a lot of movement through
23 this. The first phase of the trail had
24 60,000 people in one year on the trail.
25 When we start talking about Wekiva Springs
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 45
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 State Park, we talk about an area that has been
2 set aside for many years for the use of
3 recreation and the protection of the resource.
4 In the Land Management Review Committee,
5 who looked at the unit plan for the park, they
6 noted that the trail was an inappropriate use
7 for Wekiva Springs State Park.
8 The park is the best that we have in
9 central Florida. When the State began their
10 ecosystem planning of lands, Wekiva Springs
11 State Park was one of those areas that was
12 pointed out as being an area that had been well
13 managed, that the ecosystem was intact because
14 it had been protected and fire management had
15 been employed to protect those lands.
16 Wekiva Springs State Park allows the people
17 who visit there a real wilderness experience.
18 We are concerned that the trail will take away
19 that wilderness experience, and this one little
20 island in a rapidly developing central Florida
21 will no longer have the opportunity to present
22 that experience to the people of the state of
23 Florida.
24 Within 300 yards of the trail, there is a
25 primitive camp. Of course, that primitive camp
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 46
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 could be moved. But that primitive camp has
2 been enjoyed by many people.
3 Typically, it takes a good hike, a
4 two-and-a-half mile hike to get to that trail.
5 One of the reasons the County has -- has
6 cited is -- and DEP has cited that it's
7 important to have this trail -- is to explain
8 to the citizens using that trail the
9 environmental value of the area. Those values
10 can be learned by people visiting the park
11 today on numerous trails that are available.
12 So we ask that an alternative route be
13 selected for this trail, and that we preserve
14 our natural Florida for the people of the state
15 of Florida for the future.
16 Thank you.
17 MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning, Governor,
18 members of the Cabinet. My name's Eva
19 Armstrong. I'm representing the Audubon
20 Society.
21 We encourage the establishment of trails in
22 this state, but we are very concerned about
23 location of this proposed trail. Clearly, the
24 Florida bear requires the greatest amount of
25 acreage to pro-- in order to protect its
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 47
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 continued existence, and this trail will
2 increase the impacts to the park far beyond
3 just the impervious surface you put down and
4 people going up and down that trail.
5 And if you follow the current design past
6 where it is now -- it is now designed to go
7 through the -- to the park, but if you follow
8 the inevitable trail the way it may end up,
9 you'd end up going through Rock Springs
10 Preserve, and we just -- we just can't afford
11 to let that inevitability be set now.
12 We would encourage you to look at the other
13 alternatives. Clearly there's one that would
14 actually save the State money. And in -- and
15 this park -- the -- this -- the establishment
16 of the trail at this site does not avoid the
17 safety hazards with the road.
18 So we would encourage you to vote against
19 this section of the management plan.
20 Thank you.
21 MS. McFARRIN: Governor Chiles, Cabinet
22 members, good morning. And thank you for
23 giving me the opportunity to speak with you
24 this morning.
25 I'm Cheryl McFarrin. I'm from Orlando.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 48
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 I'm a member of Sierra Club, and I've taken the
2 day off work to come up and talk to you about
3 the West Orange Trail.
4 Now, I'm all for trails. But the
5 activities on a recreational trail are just not
6 compatible with activities in a remote nature
7 park. People that use the remote areas of the
8 park like to go there for peace and quiet,
9 solitude, bird watching, and wildlife viewing.
10 People that use the recreational trails are
11 there for fast moving exercise. Peace and
12 quiet, wildlife is just not a consideration.
13 In fact, that type of activity disrupts
14 wildlife.
15 So if you put the recreational trail in the
16 proposed area, it's going to destroy the
17 wilderness activity. It's very difficult to
18 see wildlife, even when you're slow and quiet.
19 But if you have a fast moving activity there,
20 it will make it absolutely impossible.
21 So I really believe that the West Orange
22 Trail would be much more suitable in another
23 location.
24 Thank you.
25 MR. GREEN: Representing the County,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 49
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Patsy McClure.
2 MS. McCLURE: Thank you very much.
3 Tallahassee is lovely this time of year, it
4 was lovely in the spring, it was lovely in the
5 summer, it was lovely in the fall. I'm not
6 sure we want to be back for Springtime
7 Tallahassee, but if we can, this is our eighth
8 trip up here, and we're glad to be here one
9 more time to talk to you about the West Orange
10 Trail project.
11 My name is Patsy McClure. I am a native of
12 Apopka where the trail is going. My father and
13 my grandfather actually owned the property and
14 made the decision to sell it to the State, as
15 not to sell it to Walt Disney, who came by
16 taking a serious good look at it.
17 They have asked me to tell you that they
18 wanted it to be open --
19 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
20 MS. McCLURE: -- for people to look at, for
21 people to use, and to be preserved for those
22 folks that own the public lands.
23 I also bring you greetings from
24 Chairman Chapin. I'm the aide to the
25 Orange County Chairman. She would have liked
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 50
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 to have been with you this -- today, but this
2 is our very last Board of County Commission
3 meeting at which she will preside. So she
4 asked me to bring you greetings from her. The
5 entire Board of County Commission has sent
6 their greetings and their strong support for
7 this project.
8 Orange County's commitment to the
9 environment is second to none of the counties
10 in Orange Coun-- in Florida. Under
11 Chairman Chapin's leadership, we have invested
12 26 million dollars, have purchased over
13 10,000 acres of environmentally sensitive lands
14 for preservation, we have partnered with other
15 agencies for an additional 20 million dollars,
16 to make a total of 46 million dollar commitment
17 to environmental protection in Orange County
18 under Chairman Chapin's administration.
19 Next week we will swear in a new county
20 chairman who has made the commitment for
21 another 10 million dollars over the next
22 four years for environmentally sensitive land
23 purchase.
24 Orange County believes in environmentally
25 sensitive land preservation. We put our money
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 51
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 where our heart is.
2 We also, through the growth management
3 process that -- that you so kindly allowed us
4 to -- to do, found that we were very deficient
5 in Orange County in active and in parks and
6 recreation, and that our citizens have a --
7 have a very big need. We're looking at acreage
8 per constituent, and we're trying to build our
9 park system up. We have in the past
10 eight years opened 12 new recreational parks.
11 Our attendance last year in our park system
12 was over 8 million visitors in Orange County's
13 park system. The most popular park, not by a
14 mile, but by over 25 miles, are the
15 recreational trails.
16 We have built them, we have introduced to
17 you -- have built them, and I want to introduce
18 you to our team of internationally famous, and
19 nationally recognized as the top 15 in this
20 country, trail builders.
21 Christi Flood is the manager of our
22 Department of Parks and Recreation, who
23 basically started the Rails to Trails, and the
24 trails program in Orange County.
25 Dale Mudrak is the project manager for the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 52
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 West Orange Trail.
2 Pam Thomas is an environmental scientist
3 with the Orange County Department of
4 Environmental Protection, and cooperates with
5 us. We have a -- a team that builds the
6 trails, and we do a good job at it.
7 Christi was going to give you a brief
8 background on the selection process for this
9 particular part of the trail. I'm actually
10 going to skip that today and introduce you to
11 Commissioner Vera Carter.
12 Commissioner Carter is a 12-year veteran of
13 the Orange County Board of County Commission.
14 She is currently serving on the South Florida
15 Water Management Board. She has been the
16 backbone of environmental protection for
17 Orange County, and I'd like her to address the
18 environmental concerns on the trail project.
19 Vera.
20 MS. CARTER: Good morning, Governor,
21 honorable members of the Cabinet. I can't tell
22 you what an honor this is to be here, probably
23 my last time to appear before the Cabinet as it
24 is today, and will be changing in the future.
25 It is such a -- a privilege that -- I hope
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 53
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 you don't subtract from my time to tell you how
2 honored I am to be able to do this.
3 But -- speak of good. Thank you.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: You're doing fine.
5 MS. CARTER: We'll be seeing you many, many,
6 many more times.
7 As you know, I retired from the
8 County Commission in 1992, thought I was going
9 to be out to pasture, but you found other --
10 other work for me to do.
11 And, Governor, I appreciate the appointment
12 to the South Florida Water Management District.
13 I did not know at that time that we were going
14 to be asked to be responsible supplying water
15 for everybody who needed it. That came about
16 in 1997. And so I started doing my war dance,
17 and it worked. We had a lot of water last
18 year.
19 But this -- this trail is very, very
20 important to me. After I retired, and having
21 some spare time, I formed an organization we
22 call Trail Friends. That organization is to
23 educate elected officials, and the general
24 public, of the value of recreational trails.
25 And we're talking about multipurpose
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 54
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 recreational trails.
2 Evidently some of the people who have
3 spoken before think that everybody that uses
4 the trails are on roller blades or bicycles.
5 Well, I can guarantee you I don't do either
6 anymore. At my age, my speed is a slow stroll
7 along the trail, among the trees, viewing the
8 wildlife, listening to the birds.
9 I'm also involved in a project to provide
10 a -- an engraved pathway to an arbor and a rest
11 area in conjunction with the garden club. So I
12 am working for trails because I believe in it,
13 I believe that they are compatible with a state
14 park, which is used for recreation. I believe
15 this is the right place to put it, because the
16 other alternatives were considered and rejected
17 as unsafe by consultants, by the highway
18 department, and by the -- Sheriff Barry, who
19 figured this was -- not be a safe place.
20 There's not adequate room to put a trail that
21 will remove the user -- users from the
22 transportation -- from the automobiles and the
23 traffic.
24 I ask you to please give this your most
25 favorable consideration. This trail -- this
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 55
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 section of West Orange Trail will be the most
2 studied trail that we will have had in
3 Orange -- not just in Orange County, but
4 probably in the state.
5 It has been studied, restudied, planned,
6 replanned. We've done everything possible to
7 make it compatible with the environment,
8 knowing that it will be in between existing
9 homes, which have already made an impact on the
10 environment. As you know, they built those
11 homes in the same environment that the park now
12 enjoys.
13 So it's not we're destroying something that
14 was unique and unspoiled. It has been
15 encroached upon. Some of the environment has
16 been impacted. This use of the trail is so
17 compatible with the use of the park in
18 providing the most affordable, and multiuse
19 recreation in Orange County.
20 We have a lot of entertainment centers. We
21 have Disney, Sea World, Universal Studios.
22 They're not exactly cheap, you know. I don't
23 knock them, but they're not cheap. And a
24 family needs a place they can go and take their
25 children, have a nice stroll or a bicycle ride
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 56
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 and a picnic, and enjoy some recreation that
2 shows them what Florida used to be, and part of
3 it will continue to be in the future.
4 Thank you so very much for your
5 consideration.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
7 MS. McCLURE: Thank you, Vera.
8 Also to speak on behalf of the West Orange
9 Trail is David Gluckman, who is with Gluckman
10 and Gluckman, and represents the Rails to
11 Trails Conservancy.
12 MR. GLUCKMAN: Thank you, Governor, members
13 of the Cabinet. I am David Gluckman with the
14 law firm of Gluckman and Gluckman. I'm here
15 representing the Rails to Trails conservancies
16 who support the position of the Orange County
17 Commission on the alignment of the West Orange
18 Trail.
19 This is -- it's -- this is an issue which
20 is interesting, many of my friends that I see
21 in the audience are on the other side of this
22 representing organizations, as I have
23 represented many times over the years.
24 And it creates one of those issues which
25 sometimes is very difficult for us to -- to try
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 57
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 to resolve. But in a situation like this,
2 I mean, it is -- basically any time you have
3 human activities, you're going to create
4 problems with natural systems.
5 And so the question in this case is really,
6 if you reduce it to the nub is: Are you going
7 to have so much human activity that you're
8 going to interfere with extremely important
9 natural or wildlife systems or habitats.
10 And in looking at the -- the location of
11 this trail and how it is located, that's a --
12 that's a question that I don't think has a
13 whole lot of -- of difficult answers to it.
14 I mean, this is an area that is already
15 previously disturbed. The black bear issue is
16 a -- I'd like to call it a black bear herring.
17 I guess it's a red herring. It's -- bears are
18 wonderful things, and we all want to protect
19 them. But it isn't going to be running into
20 125 pound kids on bicycles that's going to kill
21 bears in the state, and I think we all know
22 that.
23 And the habitat that's there is going to be
24 generally, in some ways, restricted by a few
25 feet in terms of new fencing.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 58
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 On the other hand, there is something that
2 we've been trying to review over the last few
3 years, which is extremely important, which has
4 to do with how do you get the general public
5 involved in protecting and preserving Florida's
6 natural systems in a personal way.
7 And one of the things we have found is that
8 the users of trails creates that type of an
9 aura in people, and a -- and a system of -- of
10 their own personal ideals of protection,
11 because they go out there, and they develop
12 their own state.
13 And I think rather than detracting from
14 Wekiva Springs State Park, the Rails to Trails
15 Conservancy's position is that it will,
16 in fact, create a whole new support group,
17 people who use trails both for recreation, as
18 well as Commiss-- what Commissioner Carter
19 said, wandering along them.
20 I personally use the St. Marks Trail, and
21 this summer, probably four or five times a
22 week, being one of those high speed people.
23 But in doing so, I had an opportunity to see
24 who actually uses trails.
25 And one anecdote I'd just like to bring to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 59
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 your attention, because I think it's -- it
2 shows what happens when you do something like
3 this, when you create a safe place for people
4 to go.
5 I was riding the trail a couple of months
6 ago, and in front of me was a couple -- a man
7 and a woman. As I got up to them, I -- it
8 was -- I couldn't quite make out what they --
9 what was happening. They were obviously in
10 their late eighties or nineties. He had a
11 cane, and was bent over and was walking, and
12 she was helping him.
13 And they were both wearing the most
14 incredibly beautiful silver track suits I've
15 ever seen. But they were having a wonderful
16 time. And they were just -- you know, they
17 were looking around, they were enjoying their
18 trail as they saw it.
19 And so on that note, I would like to -- to
20 just give you the posi-- the position is to
21 support this. This trail needs to be built as
22 we do with other trails.
23 And I thank you very much for your
24 consideration.
25 MS. McCLURE: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 60
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 And I understand that we have some
2 questions on either the phase III part of the
3 trail, which concerns the 441 crossing; or
4 perhaps the phase IV part of the trail, which
5 is in the management plan.
6 I am here to answer your questions. If I
7 can answer your questions today, we would
8 appreciate your support.
9 Thank you.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If I could, Governor,
11 one quick question.
12 You show on that map there three options
13 that are shown. Do they vary at all the impact
14 on 441?
15 MS. McCLURE: No, sir.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: On the 441 question?
17 MS. McCLURE: Right now -- this isn't our
18 map, so let me --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand that.
20 MS. McCLURE: This map is -- only deals with
21 phase IV. 441 is three-and-a-half miles --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
23 MS. McCLURE: -- south.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Does it impact the
25 441 question?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 61
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MS. McCLURE: No, sir. Today the trail is
2 in use, and it stops one block south of 441 in
3 downtown Apopka. It's paved, it's in use,
4 people are on it as we speak.
5 The City Council of Apopka has approved the
6 trail one block north of 441 to this terminus,
7 the unanimous vote of their City Council. So
8 we are one block short on the south side of
9 441, and one block short -- north.
10 We are working with the City. We had a
11 meeting -- last week was our third meeting with
12 the City to change what was previously approved
13 by the City as a -- as a route that actually
14 went, like, six blocks out of the way, to fund
15 the overpass. We have committed to doing that.
16 Let me tell you that -- that stopping
17 phase IV, which really is -- is going to happen
18 outside of phase III, does not change the
19 funding process. Our funding is done
20 three years in advance. So we can't, you know,
21 automatically fund when they changed where they
22 wanted the crossing of 441 to be. We have
23 absolutely agreed, and are in 100 percent
24 cooperation with the City to effect that
25 overpass.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 62
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Thank you very much.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes --
5 TREASURER NELSON: -- a question of --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- yes, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- of Mrs. Armstrong.
8 As I've been looking over these aerial
9 photographs of where the County proposes the
10 trail, in almost every instance, the proposed
11 trail comes along the backside of a developed
12 area.
13 What is it that is objectionable about that
14 to the environmental community?
15 MS. ARMSTRONG: The backside of the
16 developed area?
17 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
18 MS. ARMSTRONG: I don't know. Sorry. I'm
19 filling in for Charles Lee.
20 So I -- I can't answer that question. But
21 a local person can.
22 MS. CAPLOWE: Mr. Morse, do you want to
23 answer?
24 MR. MORSE: Would you rephrase the question,
25 please, sir?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 63
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 TREASURER NELSON: Yes, sir.
2 I'm looking at a series of aerial
3 photographs with the proposed -- County's
4 proposed trail superimposed on the aerial
5 photographs.
6 And in the disputed areas, the proposed
7 trail is located adjacent to, and generally on
8 the backside of developed areas.
9 What is objectionable about that location,
10 given the fact that it is colocated next to
11 development? What is the objection from the
12 environmental community with regard to that?
13 MR. MORSE: The penetration of the park in
14 its concept is where we are objecting to this.
15 If you penetrate the park at this point, you go
16 into the environmentally sensitive area, you
17 set up the precedent for phase V that will take
18 you right on through Rock Springs Run.
19 You will no longer have any objection to
20 say, hey, we've got pristine land here that's
21 being protected, that we bought to protect, we
22 now have penetrated the park, and it does
23 not -- the fact that it goes by -- if you look
24 at phase III and phase II, they go down 435,
25 which is congested areas. You can see pictures
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 64
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 there of trucks right adjacent to the trail.
2 It has not been a safety issue by anybody
3 until we got to talking about saving the park.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I -- I can just
5 tell you my -- that doesn't convince me, simply
6 because other parts of the trail that go
7 through a congested area doesn't mean that the
8 extension of the trail ought to go through a
9 congested area.
10 The question I have: Is there any
11 environmental detriment by locating it where
12 the County has proposed it. And I don't think
13 you've made your case yet that there is
14 environmental detriment.
15 MR. MORSE: Well, maybe Nancy Prine can help
16 you on that.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
18 MS. PRINE: If I -- if I may, please.
19 The area -- this area of the park is
20 Sand Hill Community. Sand Hill Community is an
21 S2 classification community. It is classified
22 as being imperiled.
23 Twenty something acres of Sand Hill
24 Community will be destroyed when the trail goes
25 through.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 65
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 TREASURER NELSON: All right.
2 MS. PRINE: Now, the County --
3 TREASURER NELSON: Would you point that out
4 on the map? Where -- where is that?
5 MS. PRINE: Yes. That is this area right
6 through here. Now --
7 TREASURER NELSON: All right. And when you
8 say Sand Hill environment is -- is destroyed,
9 tell me, what -- what does that mean?
10 MS. PRINE: That means that an area that is
11 of deep sand soils supports a canopy of
12 longleaf pine. That is a fire tolerant
13 community that rejuvenates and regenerates by
14 virtue of the fact that it is burned on a
15 regular basis, or it burns on a regular basis.
16 This is an imperil community. It supports
17 seven endangered or threatened species. It has
18 been stated by the County in their report that
19 the trail would be going down the fire lane,
20 which is a road which is used all the time.
21 Actually that roadway is used once a week, or
22 maybe twice a week.
23 There have been two athletic activities
24 that have taken place on this. But other than
25 that, this is an area that is not disturbed.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 66
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 When the trail is built, they will bring
2 equipment into that area, will clear that --
3 that area. Though they state that they will
4 take out a minimal number of trees, and we
5 believe that -- serve on the committee with
6 them, and we believe that, but we must note
7 that the Seminole Trail that is going before
8 the Water Management District today will take
9 out some 50 plus trees in two-and-a-half miles.
10 This is 4 miles in the park.
11 So it is our belief that that habitat will,
12 in fact, be destroyed, and the integrity of
13 that habitat will be destroyed.
14 TREASURER NELSON: I think your argument as
15 far as this member of the Cabinet is concerned
16 would be a lot more compelling if this trail
17 just went right through the middle of a
18 wilderness area.
19 However, on these aerial photographs, it
20 looks like it's coming right up adjacent to a
21 developed area where there are houses on almost
22 the entire length of the trail.
23 So I am just not persuaded by your
24 argument, and I think your argument would be an
25 excellent one if, in fact, it took off through
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 67
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 the middle of the woods.
2 MS. PRINE: I understand your -- your
3 feeling there and your belief. We would -- we
4 would offer to you that those properties that
5 are adjacent to this boundary of the park are,
6 in fact, used by the wildlife. There is no
7 separation, even though there is a fence
8 between the park and the residential area. It
9 is used very frequently by the wildlife.
10 Our concern is that when you come in with a
11 14 foot wide path, plus a 6 foot wide horse
12 trail, and you have the compaction of that soil
13 with a horse trail; you then come in with
14 retention area, that brings you up to about 35
15 or 36 feet of width, which will be manipulated
16 in some manner to effect the allowance of this
17 trail through the area.
18 In addition, we will have fences on either
19 side. And we know that bears don't care if
20 there's a fence or not. We see that on this
21 boundary fence, the bears pass back and forth
22 on a regular basis.
23 Our argument continues that the noise and
24 the continuous activities within this area
25 will, in fact, impact the activities of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 68
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 wildlife, and will diminish the experience of
2 other park users within the wilderness area of
3 the park.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- DEP some questions.
7 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Could the DEP biologist
9 tell us -- tell all of us why they support the
10 location of the trail?
11 MR. GREEN: Fran.
12 MS. MAINELLA: Good morning. I'm
13 Fran Mainella. I'm Director of the Division of
14 Recreation and Parks, and good to be with you
15 this morning.
16 I'm not a biologist, but I do have a
17 biologist here. But I do want to indicate to
18 you that we would never be supportive of the
19 West Orange Trail if it was coming through a
20 middle part of the park.
21 It is going along -- it is in the Sand Hill
22 Community, and that is correct, and -- but it
23 is on a service road that is already in
24 existence, and it is one where it is along the
25 perimeter, as you've indicated, along a rural
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 69
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 area.
2 We do not -- the -- the interest that we
3 have is an opportunity here to work with the
4 County to actually do a databased analysis. A
5 year prior to the development of this trail,
6 there will be plotting and everything coming in
7 to analyze sound, wildlife coming through.
8 There'll be plotting. The County is going to
9 pay for all that -- to have that done.
10 Following the completion of -- after the
11 trail is actually completed, they will be
12 monitoring, and doing an analysis of the trail
13 and its impact, both recreational and
14 environmental. It'll give us a chance to
15 finally have some data addressing trail use.
16 We are getting regular requests to cross
17 our parks. And many times we have to say no to
18 that crossing, because it does not come
19 across -- doesn't come along the perimeter, and
20 instead it is in areas that we think are very,
21 very sensitive.
22 This is -- again, it is Sand Hill on the --
23 we are -- but we put a service road in that
24 Sand Hill area, and we have -- we do use that
25 road, not frequently, but it is being used.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 70
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 And we feel that this is an opportunity
2 environmentally, as well as recreationally, to
3 really analyze trail use in the state of
4 Florida, help us make better decisions so that
5 if we have these trail crossings coming up as
6 indicated, if someone was to come up to try to
7 cross Rock Springs Run, we would never be
8 supportive of it crossing that area.
9 We are looking for a model. We're looking
10 for some scientific analysis to help us make
11 better decisions.
12 And that is the best answer I have for you
13 right now. I'll be glad to bring up a
14 biologist if you'd like further answers.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. I think that
16 answers the question.
17 MR. GREEN: Governor, that completes the
18 list of speakers.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
20 What's your pleasure?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll move the
22 approval of the plan and the proposal, West
23 Orange Trail proposal.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
25 Is there a second?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 71
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
3 Many as favor adoption, signify by saying
4 aye.
5 THE CABINET: Aye.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
7 Plan is adopted.
8 MR. GREEN: Thank you, sir.
9 Substitute Item 11 is direct the Department
10 of Environmental Protection to exercise the
11 power of eminent domain, adopt a combination
12 resolution, and delegate authority to the
13 Secretary to prepare and execute the
14 condemnation resolution on the Kirton property.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 12, an agreement to settle
20 Case Number 90-416 CA.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, Item 12 is approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 72
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 MR. GREEN: Item 13 is consideration of a
2 petition filed by the Public Employees for
3 Environmental Responsibility against the
4 Department and the Water Management Districts.
5 Governor, if I could, I'd like to update
6 you on -- on this issue, and -- and tell you
7 where we are.
8 Mr. Medina and the Department met this
9 morning to discuss this issue.
10 Mr. Medina agreed to vacate his appeal.
11 The Department agreed that it would vacate its
12 denial of the petition. Mr. Medina agreed on
13 behalf of his clients to waive the 90-day time
14 clock for the adoption of rule.
15 We agreed to bring back to the Governor and
16 Cabinet at the next meeting a report on
17 those -- those management issues and program
18 issues that were brought up in his petition.
19 And we've agreed to enter discussions
20 with -- with him and others, being the -- the
21 Audubon Society and the Manatee Club, on
22 adoption of rules and aquatic preserves.
23 So that's kind of where we are. Again,
24 we've agreed to vacate the denial of the
25 petition. He's agreed to vacate his appeal,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 73
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 and move forward with what we hope are some
2 meaningful dialogues and how to resolve these
3 issues and report back to you.
4 Mr. Medina would like to say something at
5 the appropriate time, and looks like Pat Rose
6 also.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
8 MR. MEDINA: Thank you, Governor,
9 distinguished Cabinet officers. My name's
10 Steve Medina on behalf of Public Employees for
11 Environmental Responsibility.
12 I do want to concur that we did reach a
13 stipulation, and I appreciate Secretary Green
14 working with us on that.
15 Want to -- want to just briefly summarize
16 where we are. PEER -- PEER's members in
17 Florida are vitally interested in the Sovereign
18 Submerged Lands Program, especially as it would
19 relate to aquatic preserves, which, as
20 you know, are the most important water
21 resources the State has.
22 PEER has filed its petition to bring to
23 your attention some serious issues of concern
24 to its members. PEER did not bring this
25 petition to criticize particular individuals,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 74
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 nor did PEER intend to simply raise problems
2 without making constructive suggestions for
3 addressing the problems.
4 PEER believes that if you are given an
5 opportunity to consider the issues raised and
6 the recommendations and positions of all the
7 interested parties, that you will be able to
8 decide what improvements you feel need to be
9 made. We look to this as a potential for
10 constructive discussion and consideration, not
11 legal wrangling.
12 The main point PEER is trying to make is
13 that there need to be better checks and
14 balances put in place regarding the delegations
15 to the DEP and the Water Management Districts.
16 This is about ensuring that the delegation is
17 implemented with adequate oversight in keeping
18 with the public trust fiduciary responsibility.
19 We recognize that you may feel that after
20 hearing from all interested parties on the
21 substance of the issues on November 24th, that
22 you may need to have time to carefully consider
23 the issues and recommendations.
24 In this regard, we would suggest that you
25 may want to consider as an option the formation
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 75
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 of a task force comprised of Cabinet aides,
2 or -- whom other -- which -- whatever other
3 persons you might feel are appropriate, to come
4 up with a proposed plan for addressing the
5 concerns that have been raised.
6 In the interim, we respectfully ask that
7 you encourage DEP and the Water Management
8 Districts to make a renewed commitment to
9 referring cases of heightened public concern to
10 the Board of Trustees as intended by the
11 delegation rule. This controversial case
12 exception was a critical part of the decision
13 to delegate.
14 We do not believe that this is consistently
15 happening at this time, and -- and we refer to
16 your attention, as an example, a case in the
17 Banana River Aquatic Preserve where over
18 100 senior citizens who owned nearby
19 mobile homes, as well as the Save the Manatee
20 Club, have protested a proposed marina in an
21 important manatee habitat.
22 We have by letter indicated PEER's
23 willingness to dismiss its appeal, and we have
24 sent, as Secretary Green indicated, stipulated
25 with DEP to the vacation of our appeal in -- in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 76
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 return for DEP's vacating the orders dismissing
2 PEER's petition.
3 And we believe it is, you know, of the --
4 of the utmost importance that you be able to
5 reach the merit and not be prevented from doing
6 so by legal technicalities. But since we've
7 reached a stipulation, I won't need to address
8 those legal technicalities.
9 We would just want to leave you with one
10 final note: The employees in the Sovereign
11 Submerged Lands and Environmental Resource
12 Permitting Program make a lot of personal
13 sacrifices for the people of the state of
14 Florida.
15 We told your Aides last week about one
16 outstanding DEP employee who was tragically
17 killed in a motor vehicle accident 11 days ago.
18 At the time of his death, he had several slap
19 suits pending against him personally for his
20 good faith efforts to carry out the Sovereign
21 Submerged Lands and Environmental Resource
22 Program requirements.
23 The person who brought the slap suits
24 apparently has indicated his intention to
25 continue the suits against the -- the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 77
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 employee's estate.
2 Meanwhile, his supervisor from the
3 Sovereign Submerged Lands Program in the
4 applicable district, who no longer has career
5 service protection, continues to leave with --
6 live with these same slap suits pending against
7 him. And he, in fact, is nearing retirement,
8 but he is afraid to retire because of the
9 pending nature of these suits.
10 So we would simply ask that you, at the
11 appropriate time, carefully consider providing
12 additional outside oversight to the Sovereign
13 Submerged Land Program that is needed, we feel,
14 to back up these conscientious public
15 employees.
16 And we look forward to addressing you on a
17 particular -- on November 24th.
18 Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
20 MR. ROSE: Governor, members of the Board.
21 My name is Pat Rose. I'm an aquatic biologist
22 with the Save the Manatee Club.
23 And I'll dispense with my formal remarks in
24 light of the -- the cooperation with the
25 Department and PEER.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 78
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 But wanted to echo what Mr. Medina said to
2 you just now. And we have found ourselves
3 unfortunately in a number of administrative
4 proceedings where that's -- appears to be the
5 only way we can defend our position until some
6 of these issues are heard in a more open forum,
7 and we look forward to meeting with the
8 Department, with PEER, and your involvement in
9 this issue to really uphold, we feel, a little
10 more sunshine in the public trust issues.
11 There's no more important habitat for
12 manatees than the State submerged lands. Those
13 literally are already in, of course, ownership
14 and under your purview. And we feel that it's
15 important to understand how those have been
16 administered under the delegations.
17 And as I stand here today, we have one
18 where we had to file an administrative appeal
19 recently with the Southwest Florida Water
20 Management District where there was going to be
21 a clear violation of the rules. We have
22 subsequently worked that out. That issue is
23 going to come before you, as it should.
24 But unfortunately, we had to take that
25 administrative process just to ensure that the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 79
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 rules were followed.
2 And I urge your -- your serious
3 consideration, and look forward to addressing
4 you at the next agenda when this item comes up.
5 Thank you very much.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I make a
8 couple of comments?
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
10 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like to thank the
11 environmental groups, PEER, and the Save the
12 Manatee Club, for working with us to protect
13 the use of our sovereign submerged lands.
14 I think it is a very important part of the
15 fiduciary responsibility of us as members of
16 the Cabinet sitting as -- in our various
17 environmental capacities to guard the state
18 lands.
19 And so when there may be problems with how
20 some of these lands are being managed, it's
21 clearly our duty to take a very serious look at
22 the issues, such as the ones that have been
23 raised here in this discussion.
24 What I want to do is to urge everybody
25 involved, us sitting as Trustees, DEP, the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 80
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 Water Management Districts, PEER, and the Save
2 the Manatee Club, and others that are involved,
3 to work together in good faith as partners to
4 reexamine how we issue permits on sovereign
5 submerged lands.
6 And in this reexamination, we need to see
7 whether we are issuing these permits correctly
8 and efficiently, while still ensuring the
9 protection of Florida's natural resources.
10 And so I'd like to see DEP and the
11 Water Management Districts work together, with
12 our Cabinet staff, with PEER, with Save the
13 Manatee Club, and with the other environmental
14 groups to continue our efforts of what we are
15 tasked to do, which is to be the guardians of
16 the State's natural resources.
17 Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
19 MR. GREEN: That completes our presentation,
20 sir.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
22 Thank you.
23 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
24 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
25 *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 81
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
2 11:37 a.m.)
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
82
NOVEMBER 10, 1998
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 81 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 20TH day of NOVEMBER, 1998.
17
18
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
|
Cabinet
Affairs
