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3 T H E C A B I N E T
4 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
5 Representing: 6 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 11 The above agencies came to be heard before 12 THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT Registered Professional Reporter 18 Certified Court Reporter Certified Realtime Reporter 19 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large 20
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 100 SALEM COURT 24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301 850/878-2221 25
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES Governor 4 BOB CRAWFORD 5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN Comptroller 7 SANDRA B. MORTHAM 8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH Attorney General 10 BILL NELSON 11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN Commissioner of Education 13 * 14
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 23, 1998 3
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION: (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson, 4 Deputy Commissioner)
5 1 Approved 6 2 Approved 57 6 3 Approved 58 4 Approved 58 7 5 Approved 58 6 Approved 60 8 7 Approved 61, 62 8 Approved 62 9 9 Approved 62
10 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION: (Presented by Tom Herndon, 11 Executive Director)
12 1 Approved 64 2 Approved 64 13 3 Approved 65 4 Approved 65 14 5 Approved 65 6 Approved 66 15 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE: 16 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III, Director) 17 1 Approved 69 18 2 Approved 70 3 Approved 70 19 4 Approved 70 5 Approved 71 20 6 Approved 71 7 Approved 71 21 8 Approved 72
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 23, 1998 4
1 I N D E X (Continued) 2 ITEM ACTION PAGE 3 DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS: 4 (Presented by Carlos L. Rainwater, Executive Director) 5 1 Approved 73 6 2 Approved 74 3 Approved 76 7 4 Approved 77 5 Information Only 77 8 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE: 9 (Presented by L.H. Fuchs, Executive Director) 10 1 Approved 80 11 2 Approved 80 3 Approved 81 12 4 Approved 81 5 Approved 82 13 6 Approved 82
14 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION: (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D., 15 Secretary)
16 1 Approved 83 2 Approved 83 17 3 Approved 84 4 Approved 84 18 5 Approved 84 6 Approved 85 19 7 Approved 85 8 Approved 85 20 9 Approved 86 10 Approved 86 21 11 Approved 86 12 Approved 87 22 13 Approved 87 14 Withdrawn 87 23 15 Deferred 88
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 23, 1998 5
1 I N D E X (Continued) 2 ITEM ACTION PAGE 3 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER 4 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION: (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D., 5 Secretary)
6 1 Approved 89 2 Approved 90 7 3 Approved 105
8 BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT 9 TRUST FUND: (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell, 10 Secretary)
11 1 Approved 106 2 Approved 114 12 3 Approved 114 4 Approved 114 13 Substitute 5 Approved 115 6 Approved 115 14 7 Approved 115 8 Approved 115 15 9 Approved 116 10 Approved 116 16 Substitute 11 Approved 116, 124 12 Approved 125 17 13 Approved 125 14 Approved 126 18 15 Approved 126
19 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 128
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 6
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:39 a.m.)
3 (Secretary Mortham not present in the
4 room.)
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
6 MR. PIERSON: Good morning.
7 Item 1 is minutes of the meeting held
8 July 28th, 1998.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
10 Still move it.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's been a motion.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: And a second.
14 Without objection, it's approved as read.
15 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is the presentation of
16 the fiscal year 1999-2000 Legislative Budget
17 Requests.
18 Presenting the State University System
19 budget will be Chancellor Adam Herbert.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
21 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Good morning.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good to see you,
23 Mr. Chairman.
24 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Thank you very much,
25 Governor.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 7
1 Members of the Board of Education, this
2 morning I have the privilege of presenting for
3 the first time, and in less than 10 minutes, the
4 budget request of the State University System of
5 Florida for the 1999-2000 fiscal year.
6 Before presenting the specifics of our
7 budget request, I would like to briefly outline
8 the goals and philosophy upon which it has been
9 developed. Specifically there are six
10 fundamental goals which constitute the
11 foundation for our budget request.
12 First, we seek to establish the State
13 University System of Florida as one of the top
14 university systems in America.
15 Second, we seek to offer outstanding
16 undergraduate programs that are not only
17 responsive to students, and to regional and
18 state needs, but also are delivered in closer
19 proximity to where students live and work.
20 Third, we seek to link graduate education
21 and research much more closely to Florida's
22 economic community development agenda, as well
23 as its economic diversification and growth
24 aspirations.
25 Fourth, we seek to establish a broader and
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 8
1 much more rigorous accountability process with
2 benchmarks that are appropriate for each of our
3 SUS institutions.
4 Fifth, we seek to become much more active
5 participants in the process of enhancing K--
6 pre-K through 12 education.
7 And finally, six, we seek to build a
8 stronger partnership with the community college
9 system to assure the development of a strong
10 work force for Florida.
11 To enhance our prospects of achieving these
12 goals, the Board of Regents is considering a new
13 mission classification system for the ten
14 State Universities. The classification system
15 reflects the current instruction and research
16 status of each SUS institution as measured by
17 the Carnegie Foundation.
18 These -- the universities are being
19 clustered into three categories: Research I,
20 Research II, and Comprehensive.
21 I believe that this classification system
22 presents exciting growth and development
23 opportunities for each university in our
24 system. The plan acknowledges each
25 institution's unique regional and/or statewide
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 9
1 mission in broadening the frontiers of
2 knowledge, in educating our citizens, and also
3 in preparing them for a wide array of
4 professional careers.
5 It challenges our universities to define
6 more precisely their long-term intellectual
7 growth and development aspirations, and
8 strategies within the context of their missions.
9 It is built on the assumption that each
10 university will continue to build upon its
11 commitment to excellence in undergraduate
12 education. It encourages each university to
13 focus on research initiatives of significance
14 for the state of Florida, and challenges some to
15 move into the ranks of the nation's most
16 outstanding research universities.
17 It is against this backdrop that I would
18 now like to present the priorities of our
19 1999-2000 Legislative Budget Request.
20 At its September 11th, 1998, meeting, the
21 Board of Regents approved, and on its behalf, I
22 am requesting a 10.87 percent increase in the
23 State University System budget, totaling
24 approximately 230 million dollars.
25 Rather than focusing on each element of
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 10
1 this request, allow me to briefly highlight five
2 specific issues that are critical for the
3 long-term development of the State University
4 System.
5 The first is a request for 20 million
6 dollars to strengthen and enhance the
7 universities' infrastructure. The last
8 15 years, as you know, have been marked by
9 significant growth, and continued enhancement of
10 quality and excellence throughout the State
11 University System.
12 Much of this improvement was achieved
13 during a time of economic recession, which
14 forced many very difficult budget reductions by
15 the Governor, by this Board, by the Legislature,
16 the Board of Regents, and by university
17 administrators.
18 This funding will provide an additional
19 $138 per FTE to our universities. It would
20 simply move the State University System from
21 $11,900 in funding per calculated Full-Time
22 Equivalent student a bit closer to the national
23 average, not the upper quartile, but the
24 national average, of 12,200.
25 These limited infrastructure funds are very
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 11
1 important because they will provide a basic
2 maintenance level for equipment, for expenses,
3 and electronic data processing. They will
4 assist us in assuring that we can reduce current
5 levels of equipment inventory obsolescence, and
6 will address also the State mandated fire code
7 inspection fee.
8 The second request relates to student
9 access. It has two important aspects. One is
10 that we wish to provide expanded access to more
11 undergraduate and graduate students.
12 The 25 million dollars requested for
13 enrollment growth will fund an additional
14 3,000 FTE. These FTE will be allocated among
15 the universities, with consideration of their
16 focus mission within the context of the region's
17 classification system, their capacity to meet
18 enrollment targets, and also student demand
19 within their service areas.
20 This chart shows our full-time equivalent
21 enrollment history over the past 14 years. As
22 you can see, our FTE enrollment of 87,000 in
23 1986-87, has increased by about 57 percent, to
24 almost 137,000 this academic year.
25 That number of FTEs translates into about
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 12
1 230,000 actual students. Our FTE growth has
2 averaged almost 3500 new FTE each year over the
3 past decade.
4 Over the next decade, we anticipate that
5 another seventy to eighty thou--
6 eighty-five thousand head count students will
7 seek admission into the State University
8 System. This is consistent with projections
9 that from 1999 to 2010, the number of
10 traditional college aged students, ages eighteen
11 to twenty-four in Florida, is expected to grow
12 by 30 percent.
13 Our budget request reflects a conservative
14 estimate of the first cohort of these students
15 who will apply for admission during the next
16 fiscal year.
17 To assist in addressing this growth, the
18 second part of our access request includes
19 12 million dollars for the development of branch
20 campuses, centers, and what we're calling
21 concurrent use campuses with our community
22 colleges.
23 As the State University System strives to
24 accommodate more undergraduate students by the
25 year 2010, these new -- these campuses will be
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 13
1 significant components of our strategy to
2 provide access to universities that are on sites
3 much closer to where students live and work.
4 In addition to serving our state and its
5 citizens more effectively, I'm convinced that
6 this approach will enable us to also achieve
7 greater facilities, and operation savings during
8 a period of limited fiscal growth.
9 The third major request relates to faculty
10 and staff salaries. The State University System
11 is requesting approximately 48 million dollars
12 for incentive pay.
13 The most critical success factor, as I'm
14 sure all of you can appreciate in achieving our
15 strategic goals, and also our performance based
16 budgeting objectives, is an energized, diverse,
17 and also competitive work force.
18 You will recall that about 15 years ago,
19 this State Board of Education adopted as a goal,
20 that of reaching the upper quartile among the
21 states in various indicators of educational
22 quality, including faculty salaries.
23 The good news is that we did achieve that
24 goal. The bad news is that we're now falling
25 further behind each year from that upper
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 14
1 quartile aspiration.
2 We would like to modify our pay plan so
3 that it can more effectively reward individuals
4 and teams who are making the greatest
5 contributions to our academic enterprises.
6 Allow us to move back into the upper quartile
7 through a strong focus on quality, and on
8 performance.
9 Our belief is that salary increases linked
10 to performance will assist in carrying the State
11 University System, and, indeed, this state, to
12 the next level.
13 The fourth request is for 42 million
14 dollars in support of our goal to enhance
15 undergraduate education. Within the State
16 University System, each university's mission
17 includes a priority focus on high quality
18 undergraduate education.
19 These resources will enable our
20 institutions to develop specific programs and
21 initiatives which will ensure the enhancement of
22 undergraduate education. They will foster the
23 development of new undergraduate degree
24 programs, which will address both regional and
25 statewide needs; they will facilitate
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 15
1 instructional innovation; and provide support
2 for our pre-K through 12 partnership
3 initiatives.
4 The fifth issue is a 30 million dollar
5 request for research, graduate education, and
6 service. The State University System's
7 educational mission requires a strong
8 commitment --
9 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
10 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: -- to research and
11 economic development. With its emphasis on
12 creativity and expansion of knowledge, research
13 is at the very heart of graduate and
14 professional education.
15 The economic development potential of
16 Florida, as all of you know, is enormous, and it
17 will be greatly enhanced by having multiple
18 major research and doctoral degree granting
19 institutions.
20 Our recent experiences along the I-4
21 research corridor demonstrate what can happen
22 across this state as our universities
23 increasingly participate in research
24 partnerships. These partnerships will attract
25 new companies to Florida, and will foster the
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 16
1 expansion of existing industry because of their
2 access through our university research products,
3 to advance education and training, to leading
4 scholars, and to research libraries and
5 laboratories.
6 In collaboration with Enterprise Florida,
7 we have already identified a set of major
8 system-wide and statewide research priorities
9 which will foster Florida's economic
10 diversification into sunrise industries for the
11 next millennium. This request will enable us to
12 address these challenges.
13 We also have established a Florida Research
14 Alliance, along with our research corridors.
15 These initiatives will assure that wherever
16 there is a research partnership need in Florida,
17 the State University System will have a capacity
18 to respond.
19 The funding of these issues is critical in
20 accomplishing the goals that I've outlined
21 very --
22 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
23 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: -- briefly this
24 morning, and in enhancing the quality of life
25 for all Floridians.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 17
1 As you set the education and economic
2 agenda for our state, we in the State University
3 System want to be an integral part of those
4 efforts.
5 I would very much -- be very happy to
6 respond to any of your questions. And, again,
7 appreciate the opportunity to make this
8 presentation to you.
9 Thank you very much.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- just a comment and
13 a question.
14 First of all, I think this is the first
15 time, Chancellor, we've had the opportunity
16 to -- to have you before this body in such a
17 capacity, and I -- I know I speak for my
18 colleagues when I say how fortunate we are to
19 have you as the Chancellor of our State
20 University System, and how already, in your
21 inaugural year, I really feel you're making a
22 difference in setting a vision and a focus for
23 our State University System.
24 I don't envy you the task of -- of going
25 out there, any more than David Armstrong or me,
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 18
1 in trying to get done what we're trying to
2 accomplish. But you are, I think, the right man
3 for the job at the right time in the history of
4 the state of Florida.
5 We're excited about that.
6 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Can you just tell, if
8 you will, the State Board where we are as far as
9 the Board of Regents is concerned with the new
10 tiered system, and how that whole issue is
11 moving forward?
12 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Yes, Commissioner.
13 Thank you very much for those comments. I
14 really do appreciate them very much.
15 The Board of Regents at the last meeting
16 did go through the plan, and I was very excited
17 about the fact that the members of the Board
18 decided that they wanted to add one additional
19 important element to its strategic plan.
20 And I think it reflects the -- the
21 philosophy of the Board as we begin to move into
22 the next millennium.
23 What the Board said was that it wants to
24 have some concrete numbers, some clear
25 benchmarks, that give a very clear sense as to
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 19
1 where we believe the University System can make
2 a significant contribution to the long-term
3 development of this state.
4 And my assumption is that the Board will
5 approve the -- the strategic plan at its
6 November meeting. We will add those hard
7 numbers, we will add the benchmarks that will
8 also provide a basis for -- for this Board, for
9 the Legislature, the Governor, and the people of
10 Florida to assess our performance.
11 So I think that the -- the ten universities
12 are on board with regard to what we're doing.
13 There's still some concern around the state with
14 regard to one or two institutions. But we're
15 trying to address those now to make very clear
16 that this is a significant opportunity for every
17 university in our state. And I think each and
18 every one of them is going to benefit as a
19 result of this exciting plan.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Governor.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. Chancellor, welcome.
23 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Thank you very much.
24 TREASURER NELSON: And thank you for the
25 good job that you're doing.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 20
1 You and I have had extensive discussions
2 about the need for need-based scholarships --
3 scholarships based on need, as opposed to
4 scholarships based on merit. The Bright Future
5 Scholarship Program primarily is one for merit.
6 And perhaps this is a question that I ought
7 to address later on as we get into the budget on
8 the overall Department of Education. But I'd
9 love to have some of your comments about the
10 discrepancy between the two for students that
11 are going into the State University System.
12 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Yes.
13 I am one of those individuals who does feel
14 strongly that we should have scholarship funds
15 that are available for the best and brightest
16 students in our state. We want to keep our --
17 our best minds within Florida.
18 I think the challenge is to assure that --
19 that our -- our policies with regard to academic
20 standards are reflective of the policies that we
21 are laying forth for our public schools.
22 I think one of the challenges now is that
23 our standards for the Bright Future Scholarship
24 are too low and should be raised.
25 Simultaneously, I think that we have got to
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 21
1 accept the fact in this state that education is
2 the key to opportunity, and that one of the
3 problems that I think clearly exists across this
4 state is that many young people from low income
5 families do not assume that they have the
6 prospects of going to college. And that then
7 begins to create a number of disincentives for
8 those young people, as they begin to contemplate
9 their futures.
10 And what we have done essentially is this:
11 Rather than making a major -- a clear,
12 unequivocal statement about our commitment to
13 that principle of opening the door to
14 opportunity, what we have done instead is to
15 say, our primary focus is going to be on the
16 best and brightest, many of whom can already
17 afford to go to college, or at least their
18 families can; many of them can take advantage of
19 the -- the Federal tax credit that's available
20 up to $1500 for -- for tuition that is paid to
21 enter our universities.
22 In the process, we're ignoring these young
23 people who have -- who have the clear need. And
24 we are -- in fact, ironically passing the burden
25 for paying the tuition for young people from low
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 22
1 income families to our students, because what
2 we're doing is each year, as we have a tuition
3 increase, we -- we attach some of that to
4 need-based aid.
5 And I think that's the wrong message.
6 I think that if -- if we are committed to -- to
7 helping the best and brightest, there are also
8 some outstanding students who are included among
9 the best and brightest among those who have the
10 greatest need.
11 And my hope is that this Board, and I know
12 that Commissioner Nelson, you; I know that the
13 Attorney General feels strongly about this; the
14 Governor; Commissioner Brogan; in terms of those
15 of you that I've spoken with, we have an
16 opportunity, I believe, to make a significant
17 statement to the people of this state, and to
18 our young people that we're going to turn this
19 around.
20 And if I could just make -- just use one
21 example on this. When I was President of the
22 University of North Florida, one of the things
23 that I was so proud of in our community was that
24 the citizens of Jacksonville began to understand
25 the importance of this. And in the course of
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 23
1 about a year-and-a-half, we raised
2 8 million dollars from that community, with some
3 State matching dollars, for young people who
4 lived in publicly assisted housing, who were
5 enrolled in our inner city schools, telling all
6 of them that the bottom line is that if you work
7 hard, if you prepare yourself, if you aren't
8 engaged in drugs and those kinds of deviant
9 behavior, you're going to have a college
10 education.
11 What a wonderful message for us to send to
12 the young people of this state, that need is not
13 going to be a delimiting factor as you pursue
14 your life's destiny.
15 So I hope that we can, from a matter of
16 public policy, make it very clear that we're
17 going to open those doors of opportunity.
18 Forgive me for elaborating a little --
19 perhaps too long on that, but I feel very
20 strongly about the fact that this is something
21 that Florida must do. It's a fundamental
22 obligation that we have to the people of this
23 state.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And if I -- if I
25 may -- and this -- this probably is just as good
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 24
1 a time to --
2 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- talk about this
4 issue, because it does affect all three levels
5 of education.
6 It's going to take us about 107 million
7 dollars to achieve the 50 percent requirement
8 that's laid out in statute for -- in Florida for
9 needs-based educational opportunities.
10 And it's going to take all of us working
11 with the Legislature to make certain that we not
12 only get to that 50 percent, because it's laid
13 out statutorily, but because it's also the right
14 thing to do.
15 We can request it. It's another thing to
16 get it. And that means we've all got to stand
17 and testify when our name is called to that
18 great roll in the sky, and see to it that we try
19 to get that money.
20 I also agree with the Chancellor, and we've
21 committed to come back to the Legislature this
22 year on the Bright Future Scholarship Program
23 with some changes in their program.
24 But there again, it's going to be important
25 for everyone to recognize that making it more
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 25
1 difficult to acquire a Bright Future Scholarship
2 in this state means that you are going to be
3 eliminating some people, possibly a significant
4 number, who qualify today.
5 Typically when you make something harder,
6 you can go back and statistically analyze it and
7 know exactly which populations of students that
8 you're going to affect to the greatest degree.
9 We can do that with Bright Futures.
10 If we raise the cut score on the SAT from
11 current 970 to anything higher, you can go back
12 and analyze the statistics, and you can see
13 exactly which populations of students you're
14 going to be affecting the most.
15 And I will reiterate the fact that when we
16 start this process, all of those people -- and I
17 run into them all the time who agree that the
18 criteria should be stiffened -- need to stand up
19 with us and make certain that when, not if, the
20 shooting starts over this issue, that everybody
21 has the guts to look the Legislature in the eye
22 the way that we're going to be asked to do, and
23 say, yes, we know who we're affecting, and we
24 know how we're affecting them, by changing the
25 criteria, but it's the right thing to do.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 26
1 Because it's a lonely place to be when
2 you're standing out there saying, we need to
3 make things harder and stiffer and more
4 challenging, knowing that as soon as you do,
5 you're going to be affecting some students
6 negatively.
7 It's another thing to stand there and
8 weather the storm. And remember that when we
9 raise the SAT -- if, in fact, that's what we do
10 this fall -- if we stiffen the GPA requirement,
11 whatever we do to change that criteria, we can
12 go back and statistically analyze it and know
13 that we're going to be negatively affecting some
14 people's opportunity to gain it.
15 And, quite frankly -- and this is selfish
16 on my part -- it doesn't give me a great deal of
17 solace. You need to know this to say that
18 because Johnny no longer qualifies for a Bright
19 Future Scholarship because he now, instead of
20 970, needs a 1,000, for example, that he can't
21 qualify for a Bright Futures. But that's no
22 problem, he can just walk down to the next
23 financial assistance door and get free money
24 because he no longer meets a particular Bright
25 Future Scholarship criteria.
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1 It really doesn't give me great solace to
2 know that we're saying two things: One, it
3 needs to be harder to get a Bright Future
4 Scholarship.
5 On the other hand, it needs to be easier to
6 acquire a student financial assistance gift.
7 Because, again, I -- I, like the Chancellor --
8 and like you, I know -- believe that we should
9 also be challenging our students to not only get
10 to college, but to get there prepared to do what
11 they have to do to stay there.
12 And I think if you look at the attrition
13 rate among those students who receive
14 old-fashioned student financial assistance, you
15 will find a rather dismal attrition rate among
16 those who acquire that financial assistance, but
17 aren't around second semester or second year or
18 third year in order to complete that course of
19 study.
20 Getting to college is important. But being
21 able to compete once you get there, in my
22 opinion, is even more important, and that goes
23 beyond the whole debate of student financial
24 assistance.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much.
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1 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Thank you, Governor.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Appreciate --
3 CHANCELLOR HERBERT: Thank you, members of
4 the Board.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- very much,
6 Mr. Chancellor.
7 MR. PIERSON: Community College budgets
8 will be presented by Executive Director,
9 David Armstrong.
10 MR. ARMSTRONG: Governor, Cabinet members,
11 thank you for giving me the opportunity to
12 present our first budget.
13 I want to tell you that the incoming
14 chairman of the State Board of Community
15 Colleges, Randy Hanna, who led the Committee to
16 develop this budget, wanted to be here with us
17 this morning. He's in New York closing a
18 business deal.
19 But he wanted me to say to you that he
20 realizes this budget that he and others in our
21 system have developed with us is a bold,
22 aggressive budget, but he didn't want to be
23 accused of not asking for enough.
24 And I said, well, Mr. Hanna, I don't
25 believe we're going to be accused of that. We
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1 never have been --
2 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
3 room.)
4 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- in the past. We're
5 asking for almost as much as the
6 University System is. So I'm not worried about
7 that accusation.
8 Let me give you a couple of policy
9 challenges that we have identified over the last
10 year or so, as we've done a complete strategic
11 planning process, and a review of our budget.
12 Challenges that we see -- that we need to meet
13 to help the State progress and become even
14 better.
15 The first one is in the area of access that
16 the Chancellor has already spoken to to some
17 degree. But I want to help you understand an
18 issue of access that is different from the issue
19 that you've heard about a lot in the past. And
20 you've heard a lot about the increased number of
21 high school graduates that we're going to have,
22 and how are we going to accommodate those in our
23 community college and university system.
24 At least as big a problem, if not a bigger
25 one, is the fact that we don't have enough
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1 students coming into higher education already.
2 You have already seen many reports that talk
3 about the fact that education does lead to
4 opportunity, it leads to good jobs and good
5 productive citizens.
6 We need to encourage more of our citizens
7 to go into higher education. Let me give you a
8 couple of facts to illustrate the challenge that
9 we have here.
10 If you do a snapshot of all nineteen year
11 olds in the state, we have only 29 percent of
12 our nineteen year olds who are going on to a
13 college or university experience.
14 Thirty-nine percent is the national
15 average. We're 47th out of 50. So we have a
16 gap there that we need to make up we believe.
17 Secondly, we've got -- of all high school
18 graduates, all high school graduates,
19 approximately 50 percent are going on to a
20 college and university experience. That's
21 57 percent on a national average basis. And we
22 need to close that gap, we believe, also if
23 we're going to have a trained, educated work
24 force.
25 Now, the second issue beyond that general
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1 access issue is the fact that we need to do a
2 better job in work force development training
3 our adults and our high school students coming
4 to us to be prepared for technical kinds of
5 careers.
6 Governor, we've said in this state for many
7 years that we have the best community college
8 system in the nation, and I think that's still
9 true. At least partially.
10 But in some ways, we are way behind other
11 state's community colleges and technical college
12 systems, and it's in this area of work force
13 development.
14 We want to step up to the plate in this
15 budget and do a better job in that area. We
16 want to work closely with our school districts
17 and with our vocational centers to make sure we
18 have good articulation of programs in the
19 vocational area to our community colleges.
20 But we've got to make a significant
21 investment.
22 You may have seen a recent article in the
23 Wall Street Journal that talked about states
24 that have done a good job in the economic
25 development arena.
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1 It gave a number of different examples
2 ranging from the strategies that some states,
3 such as Alabama have, where they have attempted
4 to, in essence, buy in major industries such as
5 the Mercedes plant in Alabama. Other states
6 that have used a lot of tax credits.
7 The focus of this article said that the
8 state of North Carolina is the success that we
9 all ought to be looking at. North Carolina has
10 made an investment in its community college
11 system, and said to existing businesses and
12 businesses who are looking at coming into the
13 state, and they've said, we will guarantee you a
14 trained work force.
15 The trained work force is the biggest issue
16 that Enterprise Florida is telling us that we
17 need help in if we're going to recruit new
18 businesses into the state, and if we're going to
19 expand existing businesses.
20 That's the gap that we have not done a good
21 enough job in, and so a lot of what this budget
22 is about is asking to make an investment in that
23 area.
24 So let me move to a couple of the specific
25 areas, Governor, and then be happy to answer any
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1 questions.
2 The first significant issue that we have is
3 a 73 million dollar request that is what we call
4 an adequacy challenge. We have fallen behind,
5 even in comparison, not just national averages,
6 but in averages compared to Southern Region
7 Education Board states, in the amount of dollars
8 that we have allocated on a per student basis to
9 our community college system.
10 In fact, we're second from the bottom among
11 Southern Region Education Board states in
12 investment on a per pupil basis into our
13 community college system.
14 So we're asking, through this adequacy
15 challenge, costs to continue kinds of increases,
16 a significant increase in salaries for our
17 faculty to be able to recruit and retain faculty
18 members.
19 We're at a period in our system -- as you
20 know, most of our colleges were opened about 25
21 to 35 years ago. And so a large number of our
22 faculty now are reaching retirement age. We're
23 going through a lot of turnover.
24 So we're looking at investing a great deal
25 in our human resources. Fully 80 percent of our
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1 budget goes into human resources and to faculty
2 members and staff. So this is an important area
3 for us to make an investment into.
4 The second area is a major way that we want
5 to try to --
6 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
7 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- step up and direct the
8 lack of access issue that I talked about.
9 We have not done nearly as good a job in
10 working on our partnerships with our K-12 system
11 as we have in many years in the past in our
12 partnership with our University System.
13 I would tell you that there is nobody in
14 the nation anywhere near the kinds of
15 partnership relationships that we have with our
16 University System. Our Two Plus Two system,
17 articulation between our two systems is -- is
18 still looked at as the best model by far.
19 But we have not done nearly as good a job
20 with our K-12 system.
21 One of the reasons that we don't have as
22 many people coming out of our K-12 system with
23 high school diplomas into our system is we
24 haven't developed those partnerships.
25 So we have a 20 million dollar request to
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1 focus on a number of programatic kinds of issues
2 to work with our schools, both at the middle
3 school and high school level, to try to
4 communicate with teachers, counselors, and
5 students, and parents what it is they need in
6 order to come into our institutions, what they
7 need to be prepared.
8 It has a number of different issues,
9 building on some good strengths and strong
10 programs that we already have, such as dual
11 enrollment programs so that high school students
12 can take college credit courses in the
13 high schools.
14 Today we have gotten to the point with
15 those dual enrollment courses, Governor, where
16 we every May have a number of high school
17 students who accept their high school diploma,
18 and at the same time, walking across the same
19 stage, will receive an Associate of Arts degree
20 from a community college, because of those dual
21 enrollment programs. We want to expand those
22 kinds of programs.
23 So we've got significant increases there
24 that we would like to expand on.
25 One of the biggest challenges that we have,
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1 and we have never asked for an increase -- or a
2 budget request in this area, is in the area of
3 technology.
4 We asked our colleges: Over the next
5 two years, what kind of resources are you going
6 to need to equip your laboratories, your
7 classrooms with computers. We all know today
8 that there are very few jobs where you're not
9 going to have to have at least some basic skill
10 level in the use of computers and other
11 technology. The best jobs that we have out
12 there today are in these technology areas.
13 The colleges told us in -- in the broad
14 area of hardware, software, in the classroom, as
15 well as administrative support for these kinds
16 of systems that we are moving into, that they
17 needed approximately 105 million.
18 Now, we're not asking for all of that this
19 year.
20 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: But we are asking for a
22 beginning on that, and we're asking for
23 40 million dollars to link that technology back
24 to training programs and in the classroom.
25 Another area that we think has been a very
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1 strong success for us, Governor, is in the area
2 of performance funding. We started three years
3 ago with performance based budgeting, and we
4 moved a step beyond what you have seen a lot of
5 agencies do in a very positive way in the
6 state.
7 We took the step of linking some portion of
8 our budget request back to the outcome measures
9 that we believe we should have in this state.
10 We started with identifying very basic
11 outcome measures, such as completion of
12 programs, graduation from -- with degrees and
13 certificates in vocational areas, placement into
14 jobs, those sorts of basic outcome measures.
15 We linked a portion of our budget, and this
16 is a continuation of that program that takes
17 approximately 2.5 percent of our budget, and
18 links it back to those outcome measures.
19 Result of that, in only three years' time,
20 is we have seen a significant increase in
21 productivity, if you will. We don't often talk
22 about productivity in higher education. But
23 productivity is measured in some simple ways,
24 such as how many completions do you have
25 compared to how many students you have
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1 enrolled.
2 How many students do you place into good
3 paying jobs, as compared to the graduates that
4 you get out.
5 The productivity, as measured in those
6 ways, has increased significantly. It's true
7 that institutions and presidents are very good
8 at following dollars, even if it's a small
9 amount. So we want to increase -- we want to
10 continue that budget request, and continue to
11 increase them -- encourage them to increase
12 their productivity.
13 Almost done, Governor.
14 The next to the last issue here addresses
15 the work force issue that I mentioned. We've
16 been meeting with Enterprise Florida, also with
17 the Florida Chamber, and others.
18 And we've said: What are the kinds of new
19 skills, new jobs, new occupations that you see
20 coming down the line. How can we build new
21 programs to support the goals that you have.
22 Enterprise Florida, as you know, has the
23 various sector strategies. We are linking with
24 those sector strategies, and we're going to --
25
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 39
1 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
2 room.)
3 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- start up programs in
4 these areas to train the work force so that they
5 can go to work in these new sectors as one
6 example.
7 So we're asking for 37 million to begin new
8 programs in those areas. These are highly
9 technical programs, require investment not only
10 in expensive faculty and staff, but also in the
11 equipment to -- to start the programs up.
12 I will tell you that we have made a lot of
13 changes, reengineered our programs, if you
14 will. I was with you a couple of weeks ago and
15 showed you one example of the kinds of programs
16 that we want to offer with the CISCO Academies,
17 Governor, that you recall we did a press
18 conference on.
19 We're attempting to link with business
20 partnerships in that way to -- to provide
21 training into those new high tech kinds of jobs,
22 a lot of them in allied health programs, and
23 others, that Enterprise Florida has identified
24 for us.
25 Finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't give you
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 40
1 and the Legislature and the State of Florida,
2 credit for the wisdom of starting several years
3 ago now, almost ten years ago, when some of you
4 were in the Legislature and had a hand in
5 starting our partnership programs with matching
6 incentive grant programs.
7 We are now up to four matching programs,
8 and are being looked at around the nation as a
9 model for this. Last year the Legislature
10 appropriated over 23 million dollars to us to
11 match with contributions that we received from
12 the public in four different areas.
13 The Academic Improvement Trust Fund is the
14 oldest one now, about 10 or 11 years old. The
15 Facilities Matching Grant Program; and Allied
16 Health Matching Grant Program; and finally, a
17 Scholarship Matching Grant Program.
18 Business and industry has come to the
19 table, offered dollars to match these dollars,
20 and we're expecting approximately 25 million to
21 have in our bank accounts and our foundations at
22 our colleges this upcoming year to be able to
23 match with State dollars and private
24 partnerships.
25 So, Governor, that's a -- that's an
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1 overview. I appreciate the time, and be happy
2 to answer any questions.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
4 Are there questions?
5 Thank you.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, we'll take
8 up the Department's request at this point.
9 And I know I speak on behalf of my other
10 two colleagues when I say that this, of course,
11 fulfills our legislative requirement that we
12 make these presentations to our colleagues on
13 the State Board of Education in the month of
14 September.
15 But as I've said every year, we also do
16 that at a certain disadvantage in light of the
17 fact that we don't have the opportunity to see
18 some of the revenue estimating information
19 that'll be coming up in conferences over the
20 next several months. So these are our best
21 projections and our best estimates.
22 And I'll just hit some of the highlights.
23 You and your staff, of course, have all of the
24 detail. But just some of the highlights of our
25 request.
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1 This is overall an 894 million dollar
2 increase in public school funding through the
3 FEFP. So this does not include federal dollars
4 and some of the other funding streams. This is
5 strictly through the FEFP.
6 That constitutes a 201 million dollar
7 increase to accommodate what will be projected
8 this year as a 46,000 student increase in
9 enrollment for the following school year.
10 That's a 20 million dollar increase for
11 K through 12 after school, and summer school
12 programs for at-risk students, those who are
13 at risk of academic failure, for a total of
14 103 million dollars; 48 million dollar increase
15 for dropout prevention programs.
16 We know with our new State standards, the
17 higher graduation requirements, that both of
18 these two categories, the after school, and the
19 summer school programs, and the dropout
20 prevention programs are going to become more and
21 more important to see to it that all students
22 have an opportunity to get to those new
23 standards and graduation requirements.
24 An 11 million dollar increase for textbooks
25 and instructional materials. This once again
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1 more than I think fully funds the FADIMA study
2 that we've used as a benchmark over the last
3 several years.
4 And that brings that to a total of
5 195 million dollars specifically set aside for
6 textbooks and printed instructional materials.
7 Twenty-five million dollars for reading
8 improvement activities. The Governor has been a
9 real stalwart on this particular initiative to
10 try to provide some good research based reading
11 program opportunities to those who want to find
12 new ways to reach students, especially those
13 that we haven't been reaching in terms of
14 primary focus, and that's the ability to read.
15 A 15 million dollar increase in the school
16 recognition program. We are -- right now we
17 have the applications out for the school
18 recognition program which was passed into law
19 and funded first step this year for 5 million
20 dollars. Those applications are out there now.
21 I think the due date is coming up for those to
22 be back to the Department of Education.
23 And those reward schools for two things:
24 One, high performance. As we've always said,
25 sometimes it's harder to win the Super Bowl
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 44
1 three times in a row, than it is to get there in
2 the first place.
3 And, two, for schools who manage to
4 increase their student achievement and
5 performance measures one year to the next. And
6 this would take that total package, if funded,
7 to 20 million dollars, up 15 million, to
8 continue to finance fully the school recognition
9 and reward program.
10 Thirty million dollar increase for safe
11 schools initiatives, to a total of
12 80 million dollars; 36 million dollar increase
13 for professional development and training, for a
14 total of 39 million dollars that would be
15 directed and targeted specifically at the
16 training and retraining needs of Florida's
17 130,000 professional educators.
18 One point eight million dollars. This is a
19 placeholder for now, members of the
20 State Board. This is for critically low
21 performing schools specifically.
22 I say it's a placeholder because, as
23 you know, we've moved from 158 to zero on that
24 list. We're right now in the process of taking
25 the cut scores, or the information from last
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 45
1 year's administration of the Florida
2 Comprehensive Assessment Test, and will be
3 coming back to the State Board in a couple of
4 months with the recommendations as to what
5 scores will be used to identify schools, and how
6 they fall in terms of levels of proficiency on
7 that test.
8 One of the things we would bring to you as
9 a part of that would be the new criteria for
10 identifying critically low performing schools.
11 And until we see really what we're up
12 against, and that would be long prior to the
13 legislative process, it's a little difficult
14 right now to determine what sort of a
15 legislative request to put in there for special
16 support and assistance to those schools.
17 So that is no doubt one of the areas that
18 we'll be looking to amend over the next several
19 months, based on need that we see when we bring
20 that information to you as the State Board of
21 Education.
22 Twenty million dollar increase for public
23 school technology. This is to continue
24 Florida's efforts to maintain our status as
25 number one in the nation in terms of the amount
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 46
1 of computer hardware per pupil that we have in
2 our K through 12 system. And we're very proud
3 of that fact, and we want to push hard to
4 continue to see that we keep that kind of a
5 ratio in getting them better.
6 All of this constitutes approximately
7 $206 increase in funding per student, in the
8 per pupil expenditure, and it is about an
9 8.01 percent total budget increase over current
10 year funding.
11 It is an ambitious request we think in
12 light of the economy, we hope doable. We
13 recognize that our request, along with the
14 community college and State University requests
15 combined are ambitious. But we hope that our
16 Florida Legislature will continue to see
17 education as our top priority, and to continue
18 to help fund the kind of requests that we've
19 taken forward.
20 This, if funded, would be the largest
21 allocation to public schools in the FEFP that
22 we've seen in many years. But, again, we think
23 we've got some precedence here based on where
24 the Legislature's been over the last few years.
25 And we'll push hard to see if these requests
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1 become reality.
2 And, Governor, I'll be glad to try to take
3 any questions.
4 This budget, by the way, is built on
5 several basic tenets that we've used, which
6 include high academic achievement, and that's
7 our new standards and expectations package,
8 accountability strand; safe schools as being,
9 of course, a critically important issue;
10 professional development of our work force; and
11 the recognition out there that with the new law
12 requiring that districts put in place systems
13 that will identify their best and brightest, and
14 provide them additional money for being our best
15 and brightest, that that's a part of the
16 professional development and recognition
17 package.
18 And, of course, technology is an important
19 component of all of this. Not just for
20 students, but also for the training and
21 retraining of our professional work force.
22 So with that, Governor, I'll be glad to try
23 to take any questions.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
25 TREASURER NELSON: Yes, sir. Thank you,
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1 Governor.
2 Frank, I think you've done a very good job
3 on this budget. And let me just -- some of the
4 specifics that I'd like to ask that are not
5 quite apparent to me.
6 For example, you remember about a
7 year-and-a-half ago, we had a discussion on the
8 shortage of teachers in critical areas. And
9 what -- what does this budget reflect in an
10 increase of funding for the tuition
11 reimbursement, and the student loan forgiveness
12 programs for those teachers that teach in
13 critical shortage areas?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Nothing directly in
15 this budget, Commissioner. We're going to take
16 that up as a separate issue when we go to the
17 Legislature this year. We're trying to pull the
18 numbers together right now so we can make a
19 compelling case to the Legislature that we've
20 got some specific and targeted areas of critical
21 shortage, as you mentioned. And then try to put
22 a package together that we can take to them to
23 help us fund some incentives and additional
24 enhancements.
25 This does include though indirectly, as I
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 49
1 say, the 39 million for professional development
2 and training. And a part of that would be
3 dedicated to try to help teachers to move from
4 one area of certification, to be able to add to
5 that certification and shore up some of those
6 critical teaching shortage areas.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. So -- so that's
8 an issue that we've got to worry about in -- in
9 the Legislature.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
11 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, take,
12 for example, nurses in the school. What -- what
13 there? We've got -- is there any specific
14 funding in your budget that's being proposed to
15 increase the number of nurses in the schools?
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No. Again a separate
17 issue. One of the things that we began to
18 discuss with the Legislature last year, that I
19 would like to pursue to even a greater degree
20 this year, is the possibility of adding a school
21 nurse at every elementary school; and try to at
22 least, if not every elementary school initially,
23 target those elementary schools that are in the
24 greatest need for those kinds of services.
25 And one of the things that we began to talk
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1 about last year with the tobacco settlement
2 dollars is the fact that the tobacco settlement
3 dollars, I think, in most of our view was meant
4 to help children, number one.
5 Number two, help children in issues that
6 specifically surround health initiatives and
7 education initiatives surrounding health.
8 And we think that that might be one of the
9 things that might best serve the need of the
10 tobacco settlement dollars, might be to help
11 fund a program that would provide us with health
12 nurses.
13 It also has the potential of hopefully
14 helping with another residual problem that
15 I think some of us recognize with the tobacco
16 problem -- or the tobacco dollars if we're not
17 careful. And that is something we learned with
18 the lottery.
19 That if you don't earmark for some
20 tangibles, that you run the risk of seeing the
21 tobacco dollars sort of assimilated into --
22 through osmosis, the budgeting process; and
23 ultimately two years, three years, four years
24 down the road, people will say, whatever
25 happened to the tobacco money? And it's going
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1 to be very hard to identify exactly where that
2 money went and what it did.
3 So we hope that through a tangible, like a
4 school nurse program, we might be able to not
5 only provide good services for children, but
6 also be able to keep us out of a potential
7 pitfall with the tobacco dollars later on.
8 TREASURER NELSON: So that's something
9 you'd go to the Legislature on.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
11 TREASURER NELSON: And at least this member
12 of the State Board of Education would support
13 you on that.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: We'll take it.
15 Thank you, sir.
16 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, let's
17 talk about, you've got a million dollar increase
18 in here on school readiness funding to serve a
19 bunch of additional children in preschool.
20 Will your 8 million dollar increase here
21 fund all the eligible three and four year olds?
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No, sir. It would be
23 an increase. And somebody would have to help me
24 in terms of the number of additional slots --
25 MR. JARRETT: Twenty-three hundred
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 52
1 additional --
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Would be
3 2300 additional slots statewide.
4 TREASURER NELSON: And that's out of how
5 much that you would estimate would be the
6 eligible three and four year olds?
7 MR. JARRETT: I can get that number for
8 you. I don't have it.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. You see what I'm
10 saying is, I'd like to know, in your budget, the
11 8 million increase, what percentage of all the
12 eligible children are going to be covered, and
13 what percentage are not going to be covered so
14 that we can at least see what our target is for
15 the future.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. We can do
17 that for you.
18 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, in
19 here, you've got 125 million, which is an
20 increase from 100 to a 125 million on reducing
21 the student-teacher ratio in the elementary
22 schools.
23 So tell me, what -- what does that do in
24 our overall targets of where we're trying to get
25 on class size in elementary school.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
2 We've been over the last, I think,
3 three years, requesting and have gotten,
4 100 million dollars in each of those years
5 targeting kindergarten through 3rd grade --
6 3rd grade class size reduction. We've kicked
7 that request, as you've suggested, by about 25.
8 And what we would like to do with the
9 Legislature -- facing some of the frustration on
10 this issue -- the Legislature has, instead of
11 making it a mandate, used the word goal in their
12 legislative language surrounding class size
13 reduction. And our classes have, indeed,
14 reduced over the last three years in
15 K through 3.
16 One of the problems that we have continued
17 to face is the fact that when you spread that
18 money over what is literally four grade levels,
19 K through 3 --
20 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- without really
22 targeting, it makes it very difficult to see the
23 kinds of reductions that I think the Legislature
24 is looking for.
25 So we've not only tried to add some
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1 additional money to that, so hopefully they'll
2 be able to see some continued reductions in
3 class size, but we're also going to talk to them
4 about the possibility of further targeting some
5 of those dollars to the earliest grades,
6 guaranteed so that we can get much more quickly
7 where I think they want to go, and where we'd
8 like to go, at the earliest possible grades,
9 rather than trying to satisfy this issue
10 across-the-board.
11 So we hope that additional money will help,
12 and we also want to work on the language a
13 little bit.
14 The Legislature did a good job this past
15 year, if you'll recall, on the critically low
16 performing schools issue, of saying that if you
17 are a critically low performing school, that you
18 would be guaranteed first in line status for the
19 class size reduction money that comes from the
20 Florida Legislature. And we're going to see
21 that hopefully begin this year as well.
22 TREASURER NELSON: I notice, for example,
23 and if you could have your people supply this to
24 all of us, you have your figures for '96 and '97
25 on the class size.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 55
1 And, for example, K through 3, in '96, you
2 had an average class size of 23.53. And that
3 was reduced in '97 to 22.97, right at an average
4 of 23.
5 I'd like to know: What does this increase
6 provide in your target of what it's going to be
7 for '98?
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir, we can do
9 that for you as well. That'll be projected,
10 of course, but we can do that for you as well.
11 TREASURER NELSON: All right. A final
12 question I have is the -- there's 27 million in
13 here that was requested to continue the F-CAT
14 and the Florida Writes testing programs given in
15 the grades of 4, 5, 8, and 10.
16 And that clearly was a part of, and I would
17 clearly support, you getting these schools off
18 the critically low performing schools.
19 How does that fit with the plan, as
20 articulated in the campaign with regard to your
21 ticket, with regard to the testing of students
22 in every grade instead of this? And is that
23 reflected in this budget?
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No, sir. There is --
25 this is a continuation of all of the things that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 56
1 we have laid out, and have been accepted by the
2 State Board of Education since I got here.
3 I really felt it was important to keep
4 campaign and reality separate as we move through
5 this budget process.
6 If campaigns goes as the way I hope
7 campaigns will go, we may see some changes in
8 the budget request.
9 But as of this particular request, I
10 thought it was only appropriate that my request
11 hinge on exactly the plan that has been laid out
12 and approved by the State Board of Education
13 over the last four years, and that's what's
14 reflected here.
15 So, in other words, the continuation of
16 testing in grades 4, 5 --
17 TREASURER NELSON: Five --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- 8 --
19 TREASURER NELSON: -- eight --
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and 10 , and the
21 continuation of the Florida Writes test in the
22 state of Florida.
23 Yes, sir.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you, Governor.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 57
1 Any further questions? All right.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, Governor, we'll
3 need -- since it is legislatively required,
4 we'll need a motion on those -- either
5 individually or collectively, depending on how
6 someone would like to --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think you --
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- offer it.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- could move it indiv--
10 collectively if you want to.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
13 moved.
14 Is there a second?
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is adoption of a
19 supplemental resolution authorizing the issuance
20 of not more than 600 million dollars of PECO
21 bonds, Series 1998 D; and of a resolution
22 authorizing the competitive sale and delivery of
23 these bonds.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 58
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, that's approved.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is a resolution
4 authorizing the issuance of 250 million dollars
5 of State Board of Education Lottery Revenue
6 Bonds.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
11 Without objection, that's approved.
12 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is a resolution
13 authorizing the competitive sale of delivery of
14 not exceeding 250 million dollars of PECO bonds,
15 1999 Series B.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
20 Without objection, that's --
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, Governor, before
22 we leave those -- and I -- I know Ben'll be here
23 later -- I'd like to -- we've done this before,
24 but I'd like to continue to congratulate
25 Ben Watkins and his folks for doing a great
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 59
1 job.
2 You know, this -- this lottery initiative
3 that we all supported in the Legislature got
4 some funny looks from people who were afraid
5 because it was so different as to how those
6 bonds would be accepted out there on the market,
7 and if they'd give us a good return on
8 investment.
9 And I think, again, largely based on the
10 good work of Ben and his people, who are taking
11 advantage of a very good economy, I think we've
12 silenced the critics on that one.
13 It is going very, very well and is
14 providing over time an awful lot of much needed
15 money out there for school construction and
16 renovation and remodeling.
17 And they've done just a great job, I think,
18 handling what is a very different approach to
19 some bonding issues.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
21 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is a contract between
22 FIRN and the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
24 MR. PIERSON: I'm --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 60
1 MR. PIERSON: This -- I'm --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
3 Without --
4 MR. PIERSON: -- sorry.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- objection --
6 MR. PIERSON: This has been changed to a
7 one-year contract.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So it's changed from
9 what's on the agenda, to a one-year contract.
10 MR. PIERSON: It's changed to a one-year
11 contract with no extensions.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would move
13 approval, that in mind.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
16 seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 7 is appointments to the
19 Education Standards Commission:
20 Paula J. Leftwich through September 30, 2000;
21 Dr. Thomas H. Gaul through September 30th, 1999;
22 Judy Brashear through September 30th, 2000; and
23 Anthony D. George through September 30th, 1999.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 61
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 9 is appointments and
4 reappointments to the District Board of
5 Trustees, Lake City Community College.
6 Appointment: Daniel Crapps through
7 May 31st, 2000.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Mr. Pierson?
9 I'm sorry. Did you skip a page?
10 The reappointments on Number 7 --
11 MR. PIERSON: Yes, sir, I --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and under 8.
13 MR. PIERSON: -- did. I apologize.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, let's just not
15 let it happen again, shall we?
16 MR. PIERSON: I'll try.
17 I'm sorry. On Item 7, the reappointments
18 are Norma E. Coto through Sept-- all these are
19 through September 30th, 2000: Norma E. Coto;
20 Matty Rodriguez-Walling; James W. Pippin;
21 Diane Farmer; Dr. William Proctor; and
22 Kathleen M. Johnson.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,
24 Governor.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 62
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, they're approved.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 8 is appointments and
4 reappointments to the Education Practices
5 Commission. Appointments through
6 September 30th, 2002, are Roy Brooks;
7 Charles H. Chestnut, III; and Honor M. Bell.
8 Reappointments through September 30th,
9 2002, are Toni F. Brummond and James E. Davis.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. PIERSON: Item 9, appointment and
15 reappointments to the District Board of
16 Trustees, Lake City Community College.
17 Appointment: Daniel Crapps, May 31st,
18 2002; reappointment, Linda G. Stoddard,
19 May 31st, 2002; and Donald D. Bennink, May 31st,
20 2002.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, that's approved.
25 MR. PIERSON: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 23, 1998 63
1 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
2 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 23, 1998 64
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Administration.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item number 1 is approval of
4 the minutes of the meeting held on
5 September 9th, 1998.
6 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. HERNDON: Item number 2 is approval of
11 the fiscal sufficiency of an amount not
12 exceeding 600 million dollars for the State
13 Board of Education, Public Education Capital
14 Outlay refunding bonds, 1998 Series D.
15 TREASURER NELSON: And I move it.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. HERNDON: Item number 3 is approval of
20 the fiscal sufficiency of an amount not
21 exceeding 250 million dollars State of
22 Florida -- State Board of Education Lottery
23 Revenue Bonds, Series 1998 C.
24 TREASURER NELSON: I move the item.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 23, 1998 65
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item number 4, approval of
4 fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding
5 100 million dollar, Department of
6 Management Services, Florida Facilities Pool
7 Revenue Bonds, Series 1998.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, that's approved.
12 MR. HERNDON: Item number 5, approval of
13 fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding
14 twenty-nine million one hundred and
15 forty thousand dollar, State of Florida,
16 Board of Regents, Florida International
17 University Housing Facility Revenue Bonds,
18 Series 1998.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: Item number 6 is approval of
24 three proposed rule amendments to the Florida
25 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund rules.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 23, 1998 66
1 Item 1 -- if you don't mind, Governor, I'm
2 just going to enumerate each of these specific
3 rules -- is 19-8.011; Item number 2 is 19-8.013;
4 and Item number 4 is 19-- excuse me -- Item
5 number 3 is Item 19-8.025.
6 Each of these are subsequent -- are
7 separate amendments to the Hurricane Catastrophe
8 Fund rules.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll move approval.
10 TREASURER NELSON: And I second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, they're approved.
13 MR. HERNDON: Governor, with your
14 permission, I'd also like to mention, in light
15 of Hurricane Georges's presence south of the
16 Keys, the current status of the Cat Fund in
17 advance of that possible strike by the
18 hurricane, and, in particular, recognition of
19 the fact that each of you as Trustees of
20 the Board of the Cat Fund, and
21 Commissioner Nelson, of course, as
22 Insurance Commissioner, we presently have
23 approximately 2.1 billion dollars in cash on
24 hand in the Cat Fund balance -- premium
25 balance.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 23, 1998 67
1 We anticipate another 400 million dollars
2 in premiums to be collected shortly, which will
3 bring the cash balance of the Fund to
4 2.5 billion dollars --
5 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
6 MR. HERNDON: -- for the calendar year.
7 In addition to that, of course, we have an
8 8.5 billion dollar bonding capacity for the
9 Cat Fund.
10 So the total fund balance available, so to
11 speak, is approximately 11 billion dollars.
12 Furthermore, as you know, in an action that
13 you took approximately a month ago, the
14 underwriting team for possible issuance of
15 Cat Fund bonds has been prequalified.
16 And, in fact, the staff of the Cat Fund was
17 in New York about 10 days ago and met with that
18 underwriting team, went through a complete
19 orientation and so forth. So we feel very good
20 about the posture of the Cat Fund in
21 anticipation of a possible hurricane. We
22 certainly hope it never occurs. But --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I just want to
25 underscore this 11 billion dollars is for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 23, 1998 68
1 residential losses. The ability to offset
2 11 billion dollars of insurance losses now is
3 greater than the 10 billion dollars of
4 residential losses of Hurricane Andrew.
5 In other words, we are financially able to
6 offset losses greater than Hurricane Andrew as a
7 result of this successful Cat Fund, which is the
8 largest single reason why we have been able to
9 restore the marketplace in homeowners insurance,
10 bringing 28 new companies to Florida, and
11 finally now having 44 companies lower their
12 homeowner rates, comprising 71 percent of all
13 the homes in Florida.
14 It's large part due to this institution
15 right here.
16 MR. HERNDON: That completes --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sounds good.
18 MR. HERNDON: -- the agenda.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir. Thank you.
21 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
22 was concluded.)
23 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 23, 1998 69
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Bond Finance -- Division of Bond Finance.
3 MR. WATKINS: Good morning.
4 Commissioner, thank you very much for the
5 kind words. I'm going to pass that on to the
6 staff. Most of the thanks go to them, and --
7 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
8 MR. WATKINS: -- and their hard work in
9 preparation to give us the opportunity to take
10 advantage of these very good market conditions;
11 and this Board having the confidence in our
12 ability to conduct our business in a very
13 professional manner, and take advantage of the
14 opportunities that are presented.
15 In keeping with that philosophy, we've got
16 a very large agenda today. And this is
17 primarily to give us maximum flexibility to be
18 able to take advantage of very favorable market
19 conditions.
20 Item 1 is approval of the minutes of the
21 September --
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
23 MR. WATKINS: -- 9th meeting.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, they're approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 23, 1998 70
1 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a resolution
2 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
3 250 million dollars of PECO bonds.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item 3 is a resolution
9 authorizing the issuance and competitive sale of
10 up to 600 million dollars in PECO refunding
11 bonds.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item 4 is a resolution
17 authorizing competitive sale of up to
18 250 million dollars in Lottery Revenue Bonds.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. WATKINS: Item 5 is a resolution
24 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
25 100 million dollars in Florida Facilities Pool
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 23, 1998 71
1 Revenue Bonds for State office buildings.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 6 is a resolution
7 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
8 twenty-nine million one hundred forty thousand
9 dollars of Board of Regents Housing Facility
10 Revenue Bonds for a dormitory for Florida
11 International University.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item number 7 is a resolution
17 authorizing the redemption prior to maturity of
18 University of West Florida Housing Revenue
19 Bonds.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. WATKINS: Item number 8 is a report of
25 award on the competitive sale of 200 million
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 23, 1998 72
1 dollars in Lottery Revenue Bonds.
2 We received bids on September 1st, and
3 awarded them to the low bidder at a true
4 interest cost rate of approximately
5 4.72 percent.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, that's approved.
10 That's a great rate.
11 MR. WATKINS: Yeah. Absolutely. Interest
12 rates have been extremely low, and we've been --
13 the market has been experiencing unprecedented
14 volatility.
15 So philosophically, what we're doing is
16 getting your approval for what we perceive to be
17 the transactions we'll need over the next three
18 to six months, and this gives us maximum
19 flexibility to be able to take advantage of
20 these market conditions.
21 So thank you very much.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
23 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
24 concluded.)
25 *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 73
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of
2 Veteran Affairs.
3 MR. RAINWATER: Good morning,
4 Governor Chiles --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
6 MR. RAINWATER: -- members of the Cabinet.
7 The Department of Veterans' Affairs has
8 five brief agenda items to present this morning
9 for your acceptance.
10 Item number 1, we request acceptance of our
11 reports for third and fourth quarters of
12 Fiscal 97-98.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and seconded.
17 Without objection, that's approved.
18 MR. RAINWATER: Item number 2, Department
19 of Veterans' Affairs rulemaking.
20 Rule -- proposed Rule 55-11 giving our
21 State veterans domiciliary home at Lake City, a
22 license to operate as an extended congregate
23 care facility, serving yet another segment of
24 the disabled veterans population of our state.
25 Rule Number 55-12, which decreases the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 74
1 residency requirement from three to one year for
2 acceptance into the State veterans healthcare
3 facilities; Rule 55-A7, which implements the --
4 the veterans preference rule as passed by last
5 session.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 MR. RAINWATER: Request approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved to be
10 approved?
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: And second.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. RAINWATER: Item number 3 is our
15 legislative -- legislative budget request for
16 Fiscal '99-2000.
17 I will give a few brief highlights of
18 our -- of our LBR for this year for your
19 information.
20 The total request is for 42 million. Only
21 8.7 million is general revenue funding.
22 One of the highlights of our LBR this year
23 is a 15.5 million dollar authority request to
24 tap into the tobacco settlement money, not on
25 the basis of a grant, but on the basis of a loan
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 75
1 to expand an innovative program to reinstitute
2 homeless veterans into productive lives in our
3 state.
4 This program was -- has been piloted and
5 proved successful in Jacksonville-Duval County,
6 under the acronym, their JVET program. It's
7 been in existence for several years.
8 We now are requesting the opportunity to
9 expand the JVET program into a statewide
10 initiative to -- to reinstitute our homeless
11 veterans population back into productive lives.
12 I have with me today Captain Chet Smith,
13 U.S. Navy retired, who is the County Veterans
14 Service Officer for Jacksonville-Duval County,
15 who has operated this program successfully for
16 several years in Jacksonville.
17 And we're requesting the authority to tap
18 into the tobacco settlement money to help the
19 homeless veterans of our state.
20 We are requesting 13 additional FTE for
21 this coming year, five of those to start up the
22 new Broward facility which -- nursing facility
23 which would be built at Pembroke Pines this
24 coming year; one FTE to do the administrative
25 details of the veterans preference law passed
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 76
1 last session; 3 additional veterans claims
2 representatives to staff new VA clinics that are
3 being built throughout the state; 2 information
4 resource FTE to enhance our potential to market
5 the Florida Salutes Veterans license plates
6 which produce trust fund dollars to operate our
7 facilities.
8 Due to the increase in our FTE nursing home
9 program, we need an additional FTE in our
10 personnel function; and 1 FTE to staff the --
11 the Commission on Veterans' Affairs.
12 That is our Legislative Budget Request. We
13 request approval.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. RAINWATER: Our Capital Improvements
20 Program for Fiscal '99-2004. The primary
21 centerpiece of that -- of the CIP is the
22 authority to accept the 4 million dollars, and
23 half of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
24 share, of the construction of the Broward
25 nursing home, and the 2 million dollars
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 77
1 requested from the Legislature for the State's
2 share of the Broward facility to complete
3 construction there.
4 Request --
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 MR. RAINWATER: -- approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second, with a
8 question, Governor, if I may?
9 On the Pembroke Pines veterans nursing
10 home, one of the things that stuck out was the
11 fact that there seems to be about a 15 percent
12 of budget request for miscellaneous.
13 And I was just wondering why such a large
14 percentage would be set-aside for
15 miscellaneous?
16 MR. RAINWATER: Commissioner, I'm not
17 exactly sure. I haven't explored the detail of
18 that miscellaneous request. But I will get back
19 to you for the record on that.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would appreciate
21 it.
22 Thanks, Governor.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. RAINWATER: The final item is one for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 78
1 information only. As you know, we have State
2 veterans nursing facilities in several locations
3 of the state. There's two underserved areas for
4 State veterans affairs facilities for our
5 veterans of our state are in southwest Florida
6 and in northwest Florida, the panhandle area.
7 Those two areas have no State veterans
8 healthcare facilities.
9 We have submitted to the U.S. Department of
10 Veterans' Affairs a pre-application intent to
11 ask for their participation in construction --
12 in constructing health care facilities in those
13 two areas.
14 There is a -- a window of opportunity here
15 that took place in the United States Congress
16 that is taking place in the -- in Washington, in
17 the current budget process where it appears that
18 that State veterans grant program will be
19 greatly enhanced by an infusion of -- of
20 significant funding this session of the
21 Congress.
22 So we are looking forward to that to
23 complete our long-term plan of five veterans
24 nursing homes for the state of Florida. We
25 would like to -- to tap into that.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS September 23, 1998 79
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would move the
2 item, Governor.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think it was just an
5 information item.
6 MR. RAINWATER: It was information,
7 yes, sir.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
9 MR. RAINWATER: Okay.
10 That concludes our presentation, be glad to
11 take any questions.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
13 MR. RAINWATER: Thank you.
14 (The Department of Veterans' Affairs Agenda
15 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 23, 1998 80
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.
2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.
3 Item 1 is a request for approval of the
4 minutes of the September 9th --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move the
6 minutes.
7 MR. FUCHS: -- 1998, meeting.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, the minutes are
10 approved.
11 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for
12 permission to notice proposed amendments and
13 repeals to Rule Chapters 12D-1, --2, --5,--6,
14 --7,--8, --10, --13, --16, --17, and --18.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, they're approved.
20 MR. FUCHS: Item 3 is a request for
21 approval and authority to file with the
22 Secretary of State, proposed amendments to
23 Rule Chapter 12-3.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 23, 1998 81
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, they're approved.
4 MR. FUCHS: Item 4 is a request for
5 approval of, and authority to file with the
6 Secretary of State, proposed amendments to
7 Rule Chapter 12-10.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, they're approved.
12 MR. FUCHS: Just a moment, if you -- if you
13 would allow me, Governor. Item 5 has to do with
14 electronic data interchange filing.
15 And I would report to the -- to you and to
16 the Cabinet that this program has been
17 enormously successful.
18 In August, 38,000 tax returns were filed in
19 this paperless environment, representing
20 500 mill-- 570 million dollars, eliminating
21 about one-and-a-half million keystrokes in data
22 entry, and all possibilities of error on the
23 part of either the taxpayers or the
24 Department of Revenue.
25 Item 5 is a request for approval of, and
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 23, 1998 82
1 authority to file, with the Secretary of State
2 proposed Rule Section 12A-1.0565, which allows
3 us to waive those requirements for those
4 businesses who find difficulty in filing.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. FUCHS: Item 6 is a request for
10 approval of, and authority to file with the
11 Secretary of State, proposed amendments to
12 Rule Chapter 12B-5.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
19 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
20 concluded.)
21 *
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION September 23, 1998 83
1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, recommend
4 approval of the minutes for the meeting held
5 July 28 --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
7 DR. BRADLEY: -- 1998.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, the minutes are
11 approved.
12 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend
13 approval of the transfer of general revenue
14 appropriations for Items A. and B. for the
15 Department of Children and Families.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move Items 2 --
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- A. and B.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, they're approved.
21 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, recommend
22 approval of the transfer of general revenue
23 appropriations for the Department of Health.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION September 23, 1998 84
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- approval.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 4, recommend
6 approval of the transfer of general revenue
7 appropriations for Items A. and B. for the
8 Agency for Health Care Administration.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move Item --
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- 4 A. and B.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 5, recommend
17 approval of the transfer of general revenue
18 appropriations for the Department of
19 Juvenile Justice.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the item.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, that's approved.
24 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 6, recommend
25 approval of the transfer of general revenue
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1 appropriations for Items A. and B. for the
2 Department of Labor and Employment Security.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move Item 6 A. and B.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 7, recommend
8 approval of the transfer of general revenue
9 appropriations and reorganization changes for
10 the Department of Management Services and the
11 Department of Education.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 8, recommend
17 approval of the transfer of general revenue
18 appropriations for Items A., B., and C. for the
19 Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, that's approved.
24 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 9, recommend
25 approval of the transfer of general revenue
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1 appropriations for the Department of Children
2 and Families.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, that's approved.
7 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 10, recommend
8 approval of the transfer of general revenue
9 appropriations for the Department of Education.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 11, recommend
15 approval of the transfer of general revenue
16 appropriations for the Department of
17 Juvenile Justice.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 12, recommend
24 approval of the transfer of general revenue
25 appropriations for the Department of Labor and
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1 Employment Security.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 13, recommend
7 approval for proposed amendments to
8 Chapter 60K-5 of the Florida Administrative Code
9 on attendance and leave.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, if you'd just
15 record me as a no on that.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
17 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 14, request
18 authorization to withdraw amendments to Uniform
19 Rules of Procedure 28-106.202, and 28-106.205.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Approve withdrawal.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, approved.
24 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 15, request
25 deferral of consideration of this item.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION September 23, 1998 88
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move --
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- deferral.
4 Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
6 motion to defer.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
9 concluded.)
10 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION September 28, 1998 89
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of September 9th, 1998,
5 Commission meeting.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the minutes.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, minutes are approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request
11 authorization to enter the draft order
12 transmitting proceeding.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move staff
14 recommendation.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Yes.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'd like to move to
20 amend to waive the interest on the lease fees in
21 the arrears, which would amount to $12,929.83.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pardon?
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think
25 that's the next page.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's number 2,
2 right? Are we on number 2 yet?
3 DR. BRADLEY: On the --
4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You're not on
5 Trustees.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Oh.
7 DR. BRADLEY: On the Trustees?
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Oh, okay. Okay. We'll
9 wait, and do that on the next one.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. We've --
11 motion and a second on Item --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The motion --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- 2 --
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- stands.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- approved.
16 Item 2 is approved.
17 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, request
18 authorization to enter the draft final order.
19 And on this one, we have several people who
20 would like to speak, Governor. We're giving
21 them 3 minutes apiece at your forebearance.
22 The first is Bram Canter, representing the
23 Petitioners and the Intervenor.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Why don't you give us a
25 little idea of what this is about.
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1 DR. BRADLEY: I'm sorry.
2 Why don't -- why don't I let Teresa Tinker
3 come up and give you the --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Fine.
5 DR. BRADLEY: -- overview so that you'll
6 have a complete understanding of this issue with
7 regard to development over in Panama City.
8 MS. TINKER: Teresa Tinker with the
9 Governor's Office of Planning and Budgeting.
10 This is a request for review of a
11 Department of Environmental Protection final
12 order that was issued authorizing a construction
13 project on the beach of Panama City.
14 The petition -- the permit was issued to
15 Resort Hospitality Enterprises. It involves a
16 restaurant, a deck to the restaurant, and a
17 pool. There are several issues that were raised
18 in the process of the Department issuing its
19 permit. The matter was challenged by
20 Kelly Cadillac and Hudson Construction. And
21 George Cherry intervened in that proceeding.
22 The matter went to the Division of
23 Administrative Hearings, came back with a
24 recommendation by the Administrative Law Judge
25 that the Department issue the permit.
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1 The Department did, in fact, enter a final
2 order to issue. And that final order is before
3 you under Chapter 20 as a request to review.
4 Should you decide today to accept this
5 review, staff will come back to you at a future
6 meeting with a recommendation on the merits.
7 According to the statute, it only actually
8 takes one member to request review. You do not
9 have to do a majority vote for that, just one
10 person has to ask for it.
11 There are several speakers here today. The
12 Petitioner's attorney, and the applicant for the
13 permit, and then the Department of Environmental
14 Protection is here as well.
15 MR. CANTER: Governor Chiles, members of
16 the Cabinet, my name is Bram Canter. I
17 represent the Petitioners and Intervenor in this
18 case. They own town houses adjacent to this
19 proposed project.
20 I don't have any exhibit large enough for
21 you to see from where I am. But I -- if you
22 would let me approach you, I will give you one
23 aerial photograph which you can look at while
24 I'm speaking to you.
25 May I?
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1 MS. CASTILLE: Here. I'll do it.
2 MR. CANTER: This aerial photograph shows
3 an area of Panama City Beach. I have circled
4 the location of the proposed restaurant. So
5 it's not on the photo. Of course, it's not been
6 constructed.
7 But the circle shows you the -- the place
8 where it would be located.
9 And the line on the beach is the old -- the
10 pre-Opal Coastal Construction Control Line. And
11 the proposed project would be located right up
12 to that line.
13 To give you an idea of its relation-- its
14 location in relationship to other projects in
15 the area.
16 This project will -- extends 35 feet
17 seaward of the adjacent properties. It --
18 adjacent habitable structures.
19 This review procedure is an alternative to
20 what used to happen, which is sitting as the
21 head of the Department of Natural Resources, you
22 would issue Coastal Construction Control Line
23 permits. Now that's delegated to the Department
24 of Environmental Protection, and you have this
25 review function when an order is brought to your
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1 attention.
2 You may recall, those of you who were on --
3 were part of DNR before the reorganization, that
4 you didn't allow projects to extend 35 feet
5 seaward of -- of adjacent structures.
6 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
7 MR. CANTER: But that's what's proposed in
8 this case.
9 The recommended order is -- makes many
10 findings, and -- in support of the issuance of
11 the permit. But I believe the case and the
12 proposed issuance of the permit can be rejected
13 because of the way several rules of the
14 Department were applied, applied wrongly,
15 I believe; and not consistent with the
16 provisions and purposes of Chapter 161.
17 And that's what you're doing here. You're
18 reviewing this proposed order to determine
19 whether you believe it is consistent with the
20 provisions and purposes of Chapter 161.
21 For example, there's a requirement that you
22 not remove or destroy vegetation that would
23 destabilize the dune or the beach system in the
24 area. There was dune vegetation, very thick
25 dune vegetation in this area. It was swept away
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1 by Hurricane Opal.
2 The applicant comes in, he says, there is
3 no vegetation, therefore, my project will not
4 remove or destroy vegetation. In fact, the
5 project is located right over the area where the
6 vegetation was located. And --
7 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
8 MR. CANTER: -- vegetation cannot grow
9 under the structure now.
10 I believe that this provision has to be
11 interpreted to mean that when coastal storms
12 remove the stabilizing vegetation, that a
13 project cannot be authorized that would prevent
14 the return of that vegetation, because one of
15 the provisions and purposes of Chapter 161, and
16 reflected in the rules, is to allow for natural
17 fluctuations and the natural restoration of the
18 beach dune system.
19 So if you allow, after a coastal storm has
20 removed stabilizing vegetation, a project to be
21 placed where that vegetation used to be, and you
22 take the position, as this hearing officer did,
23 that that doesn't do injustice to the
24 requirement that you not remove or destroy
25 vegetation because there is none there, then you
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1 have created a huge loophole. And instead of
2 allowing the beach to be protected following
3 coastal storms, you allow this inroads and --
4 DR. BRADLEY: Time is up.
5 MR. CANTER: -- advancement.
6 I would like to please request a slight
7 extension of my time. Three minutes is just
8 really impossible to cover these, but I will try
9 to --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Give you --
11 MR. CANTER: -- move quickly.
12 Thank you very much.
13 Another provision is one that requires that
14 the impacts of a project be minimized.
15 In this case, the project is as far seaward
16 as the applicant could possibly get it in order
17 to gain an economic advantage.
18 It was suggested by my opposing counsel
19 that this is a point that's not established in
20 the record, but, in fact, it is.
21 There was a market analysis and testimony
22 from the applicant's own witnesses that this
23 project was -- needed to be as far seaward as
24 possible to compete with other restaurants in
25 the area.
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1 And there was a meeting with the
2 Department, and a -- minutes taken of that
3 meeting. And this is part of the record, too.
4 And it is stated by the applicant's attorney,
5 that the siting was needed for economic reasons
6 because of the view afforded by its competitors,
7 Pineapple Willy's, which is located
8 approximately 1500 feet west of the project
9 site. This is the reason the project is where
10 it is.
11 So it could have been moved back, but it
12 was not. If it was moved back off the frontal
13 dune, its impacts would be minimized.
14 There is also a requirement that the
15 project be located a sufficient distance
16 landward of the frontal dune to allow dune
17 processes to take place. Natural dune
18 processes.
19 This project is not landward of the frontal
20 dune. This project is at the crest of the
21 frontal dune. And if you -- you see the aerial
22 photograph, if it's still up there, you will see
23 that all the other projects are off the dune.
24 So here someone came in, and they placed a
25 project on top of the frontal dune, and tried
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1 to -- and yet the hearing officer made the
2 determination that it was sufficient distance
3 landward of the frontal dune, as practical, to
4 prevent shoreline fluctuations. A just
5 impossibility, in my opinion.
6 So the irony is: Prior to Hurricane Opal,
7 these dunes were not constructed upon. Then you
8 have Hurricane Opal doing great damage,
9 requiring a disaster determination or
10 declaration by the Federal government, and an
11 emergency rule by this state to place a new
12 control line in place.
13 And yet the result of this application is a
14 project that extends far seaward of other
15 projects in the area, and justified on a basis
16 that will be the justification for the
17 advancement of projects all along this beach,
18 and anywhere along Florida's beaches.
19 Thank you. I'll be available for
20 questions.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
22 DR. BRADLEY: Governor, that extension took
23 another -- about another 4 minutes, so we might
24 want to take that in mind in dealing with the
25 other folks who want to speak.
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1 The next speaker is Tom Mayton representing
2 the Department of Environmental Protection.
3 MR. MAYTON: Good morning.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
5 MR. MAYTON: I'm Tom Mayton with DEP.
6 As stated in the agenda, the Commission's
7 review here is -- is limited to determining
8 whether DEP's final order is consistent with the
9 applicable rules and statutes.
10 And what that means is that the review here
11 is limited to three questions: Whether there is
12 competent substantial evidence to support the
13 Administrative Law Judge's findings of facts;
14 whether the conclusions of law based on those
15 findings of fact follow the -- the law here, the
16 rules and statutes; and number three, whether
17 the administrative proceeding complied with the
18 essential requirements of law.
19 Now, the answer to all three of those
20 questions is yes. Mr. Canter argues that the
21 answer to the second question, whether the DEP
22 followed the law, is no.
23 In making his arguments, Mr. Canter alleges
24 facts that contradict the findings of fact made
25 by the Administrative Law Judge, which are
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1 supported by substantial competent evidence.
2 And it is inappropriate on a -- on a review
3 by a tribunal to -- to act to contradict those
4 findings of facts.
5 And for those reasons, the Department would
6 request that the Commission not accept review of
7 this case.
8 Thank you.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Counselor --
11 Can I ask a question, Governor?
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Counselor, the -- the
14 procedure is apparently, however, that this body
15 does have the ability to accept for review such
16 cases?
17 MR. MAYTON: The three -- in the three
18 instances I outlined, yes, Your -- yes, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So if, in fact, we
20 feel one or more of those particular issues
21 is -- is in question, then we have the right to
22 request the review?
23 MR. MAYTON: That is correct.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.
25 DR. BRADLEY: Next, Governor, I'd like to
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1 introduce Mr. Tom Tomasello, representing
2 Resort Hospitality Enterprises. And I believe
3 he'll have an introduction.
4 MR. TOMASELLO: Good morning, Governor,
5 members of the Commission. My name is
6 Tom Tomasello. I'm an attorney in Tallahassee,
7 and I'm the attorney who tried this case before
8 the Administrative Law Judge.
9 And if I could wish one thing, I would have
10 wished that all seven of y'all had sat in that
11 room for the two days that this case was tried,
12 because you would have heard a completely
13 different case than the one that was just
14 presented to you by counsel for the next door
15 neighbors who offered a lot of opinions about
16 the facts in the case.
17 But I would -- I would ask on this -- on
18 this one sole issue, I'm not going to argue the
19 merits of the case with you, but to keep in
20 one -- you know, in mind one fact when you
21 decide whether you want to look at this any
22 further.
23 And that is the finding by the
24 hearing officer in this case that after we build
25 this project, the beach dune system at that site
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1 is going to be better than it is right now.
2 And to me that -- that ends, you know, all
3 inquiry into this case, because that's a fact
4 that's indisputable.
5 If you read the Petitioner's opposition to
6 our case that was presented to you, he has never
7 at one point ever stated that there was no
8 competent substantial evidence in the record to
9 support each of the findings that the
10 hearing officer made.
11 And those findings are that this project
12 isn't landward of the frontal dune; second, that
13 it'll allow natural fluctuations following a
14 storm; that it'll allow beach recovery after a
15 storm; that when we get through with this
16 project, the dunes at the site will be better
17 than they were before Hurricane Opal; and that
18 there's going to be more vegetation on the site
19 than there was before Hurricane Opal. That's a
20 net positive benefit.
21 This applicant has done everything the
22 Department asked it to do to improve this
23 project.
24 You've been told that we're 35 feet seaward
25 of -- of the Petitioner's structures. That's
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1 just not the case. The evidence in the record
2 shows at most it's 15 feet.
3 The applicant in this case also agreed
4 if -- if -- you know, that the -- the fact that
5 the deck extended seaward of the restaurant was
6 resolved by our agreeing to make the deck
7 separate from the restaurant so that the deck
8 would dissolve in a storm. It's a frangible
9 structure, it won't have any impact. These are
10 all the things that you're not being told.
11 Again, it's probably fruitless to try to
12 argue all the merits of the case now. But I
13 only ask that you keep in mind one thing, and
14 that when -- when permitted and when built,
15 you're going to have a better beach there than
16 you have right now.
17 Thank you.
18 I'd like to introduce at this point
19 Mr. Neil Butler, who's the representative of the
20 corporation, Resort Hospitality.
21 MR. BUTLER: Thank you.
22 Governor, members of the Cabinet, I'm
23 Neil Butler. I'm on the Board of Directors of
24 the holding company that is Resort Hospitality
25 Enterprises.
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1 This is a complex of four hotels owned by
2 Joe Chapman in Panama City. And this project
3 was proposed as part of a reconstruction
4 following Hurricane Opal, that there's a
5 boardwalk connecting these four hotels.
6 And quite frankly, Mr. Chapman went out and
7 spent over a quarter of a million dollars to
8 reconstruct the dune system, and to revegetate
9 the dune system on a strip of over 1800 feet in
10 front of these hotels. Even before this latest
11 beach renourishment program, he went on his own
12 to do these things.
13 This case is not about the environment,
14 this case is not about vegetation on the frontal
15 dunes. This case is about someone's view.
16 And they fairly had a trial, they lost,
17 they again appealed to the Department for a
18 second review, they lost, and we would commend
19 to you the recommendation of no review.
20 I'll be happy to answer any questions.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Questions?
22 Thank you, sir.
23 MR. BUTLER: Thank you.
24 DR. BRADLEY: That's all the speakers,
25 Governor.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I move the
3 item.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: The item has been moved
6 and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's -- it's approved.
8 DR. BRADLEY: That's the end of the agenda,
9 Governor.
10 Thank you.
11 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
12 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1 are minutes.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
7 Without objection, the minutes are
8 approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2, a submerged land
10 lease, placement of "dolphins" and authorization
11 to severance. And we have a speaker.
12 If that's okay, Governor, then I would call
13 for the applicant, Mr. Joe Gunger.
14 MR. GUNGER: Good morning, Governor,
15 members of the Cabinet.
16 I'm Joe Gunger. I'm the agent for
17 Mr. and Mrs. Fleming of Coastal Materials in
18 their request for a permit and a submerged land
19 lease in Okaloosa County.
20 And I'm here today to answer any questions
21 you might have on the project, and to ask for
22 your help and consideration on the -- what we
23 feel is an excessive amount of money that the
24 Flemings are being asked to pay for what
25 basically was a mistake, an honest mistake.
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1 The Flemings thought that they were
2 grandfathered in. The project's been there a
3 long time. The City had grandfathered them in.
4 And they just -- they believed the City
5 when the City said they were grandfathered in,
6 and they did not realize that the State had a
7 separate grandfather system for use of the
8 bottom lands.
9 If they had understood, certainly they
10 would have gone ahead and registered as a
11 grandfathered facility, and -- and not had to
12 pay any money in back lease fees for the use of
13 the bottom lands.
14 When the City said they were grandfathered
15 in, they just thought that that covered
16 everything.
17 When they finally were told they needed to
18 get a permit, they've done everything they could
19 to comply with the wishes of the State. We
20 voluntarily put up a berm around the site to
21 protect and enhance the water quality of the
22 State waters.
23 When the DEP decided that the berm material
24 wasn't what they wanted, they went ahead and
25 removed the base material berm, and put up an
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1 earthen berm in order to comply.
2 The Flemings have spent about $13,246.50
3 on -- on the berm, putting the first one in,
4 then removing it, and putting the second one in.
5 The Flemings are looking at spending about
6 $79,035 on an upland retaining wall. The
7 existing bank there is stable so they could --
8 they wouldn't necessarily have to have one. But
9 the wall will go ahead and benefit everyone and
10 enhance the water quality so they're going to go
11 ahead and put it up.
12 We're doing everything we can to comply
13 with the wishes of the State as far as
14 environmentally for the permits.
15 The Flemings have already paid the State
16 $24,879.10 for lease fees in arrears through the
17 TUA.
18 And now the State wants to charge an
19 additional $52,961.21 in lease fees and interest
20 in arrears.
21 That comes out to about $77,840.31 that
22 wouldn't even exist if -- if the Flemings had
23 gone ahead and -- and registered their facility
24 as a grandfathered facility.
25 We just wish to appeal to your
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1 understanding and consideration, and ask for
2 some relief from this heavy financial burden
3 that's been placed on the Flemings.
4 They didn't try to cheat the State or get
5 over on the State or anything like that. It was
6 just an honest misunderstanding, a paperwork
7 mistake. And -- and certainly no one regrets
8 that the mistake was made more than -- than we
9 do.
10 They've already paid the State $24,879.10
11 for this error, and we would certainly
12 appreciate any relief that you could possibly
13 extend to us on the matter.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
15 Ginny, I can't totally understand this, but
16 I see that you say the project would have
17 qualified to be grandfathered by the State if
18 the applicant had submitted such a request.
19 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir.
20 In the '80s, the State established a
21 grandfather program. And if you registered for
22 the grandfather program, then you weren't
23 subject to lease until, as it was, this January
24 of '98.
25 That was in '84. And a lot of people --
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1 most people signed up.
2 But, again, we realize that some people had
3 overlooked that. And in '90, '91, we issued
4 what we called the Grandfather II program,
5 giving people a second chance to register.
6 We noticed this by, you know, posting in
7 marinas, by newspapers, by radio announcements.
8 And we had over 600 people who signed up for the
9 Grandfather I, and then the Grandfather II
10 program. We've had a handful of people who have
11 come forward and said they didn't hear about it,
12 and, you know, in a similar situation as this
13 gentleman.
14 But I think for the most part, we tried
15 very hard to make people aware that they could
16 be grandfathered through these kinds of
17 announcements that we made.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
19 MS. WETHERELL: Now everyone is subject --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't understand this,
21 again, totally. But --
22 MS. WETHERELL: I'm sorry.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- under the
24 Grandfather II, it's too late to be
25 grandfathered --
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1 MS. WETHERELL: No, sir. I'm sorry.
2 Grandfather II program was another -- a
3 second chance for people to register their
4 facilities, and not have to pay lease fees until
5 this year, till '98.
6 So they were -- the public was again
7 noticed -- notified that if they, you know, were
8 using submerged lands, that they needed to
9 register for the Grandfather II program. In
10 other words, let the State know that they are
11 using sovereign submerged lands.
12 So there have been two programs in which
13 people had been notified that they needed to
14 come and register under the grandfather
15 program.
16 What this gentleman is telling you is that
17 they didn't do that, they didn't know about the
18 State's grandfather program.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So, in essence, then
20 the Governor I think is right in that they
21 didn't make the request under the grandfather
22 program; they didn't make the request under the
23 great grandfather program; and so at this point,
24 what we're basically saying is --
25 MS. WETHERELL: They have to pay --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- it is too late.
2 MS. WETHERELL: That's right.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I think that's --
4 MS. WETHERELL: We're saying -- yes.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the question,
6 Governor?
7 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. We're saying that
8 since they didn't register, it leaves us with --
9 with no choice under the rules but to charge
10 them for lease fees in arrears.
11 Had they registered, they wouldn't have had
12 to pay lease fees during that period of time.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Unless we come --
14 MS. WETHERELL: -- the '80s and the '90s.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- up with a great
16 great grandfather --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: They would have had to
18 pay what if they had regis--
19 MS. WETHERELL: They -- if they had
20 registered, they would not have to pay lease
21 fees during those '8--
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: The --
23 MS. WETHERELL: -- years of the '80s and
24 '90s.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: The $52,000?
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1 MS. WETHERELL: That's right.
2 So what has happened is that they did not
3 register that they were using submerged lands.
4 And they did not register under either the
5 Grandfather I program or the Grandfather II
6 program.
7 So that's the dilemma.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, Governor, I'll
9 try this again.
10 For lack of a Grandfather III program, I'd
11 like to move approval, with the waiver of
12 interest on lease fees in arrears, which would
13 total $12,929.83.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'll second that.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
16 seconded that for the payment of
17 twelve thousand --
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No. It would actually
19 waive the interest fees, which would amount to
20 12,000. So they'd still have, you know, a hefty
21 sum --
22 MS. WETHERELL: Approximately $40,000 in
23 lease fees in arrears remaining.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
25 moved and seconded.
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1 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
2 THE CABINET: Aye.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's --
6 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- it's moved and
8 seconded.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 is an option
10 agreement for Lake Wales Ridge Ecosystem
11 Project.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 4 is an option
17 agreement for the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway Project.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, that's approved.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 5 is a
23 purchase agreement for the Coupon Bight/Key Deer
24 Project, and a waiver of survey.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, that's approved.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 6 is a purchase
5 agreement for South Savannas CARL project, and a
6 waiver of survey.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7 are three purchase
12 agreements for Cape Romano Barrier Island
13 Project, and waiver of survey.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, that's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8 is a purchase
19 agreement for DOT.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9 is a purchase
25 agreement for FSU.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, that's approved.
5 MS. WETHERELL: Item 10 is a purchase
6 agreement for FSU.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 11 is an
12 option agreement for Grayton Beach Recreation
13 and Parks Addition, and a waiver of survey.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have
19 one comment --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Governor.
22 Ginger, in the future, this thing -- there
23 was a little bit of debate in this one a couple
24 of weeks ago.
25 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: In the
2 future, is there any way for the State to be
3 able to be put in the position to be able to do
4 the type of purchase that was done here, as
5 opposed to have someone else purchase, and we
6 end up spending an additional thirty -- thirty
7 or forty thousand dollars that really could have
8 been saved.
9 We had a very willing seller, obviously,
10 that needed money, and we had -- we had a bad
11 old appraisal.
12 Is there any way that -- that in the
13 future, when we have such a -- have purchases
14 where the -- where the State does want to buy,
15 this prior number top -- our top item to buy,
16 that we can't just have more hands-on, have
17 somebody awake?
18 MS. WETHERELL: Well, there -- there
19 certainly seems like there -- there could be.
20 The only thing that comes to my mind immediately
21 is that within our process, that we somehow have
22 a real clear understanding with the current
23 owner that, you know, if they are in a position
24 that they have to sell, which was the case here,
25 they had an emergency situation, that they would
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1 let us be the -- give us the first option, or
2 let us know, or maybe not as formal as a first
3 right of refusal, but certainly we need to make
4 it clearer that we would like to have a first
5 shot at it. Perhaps that's one way to get at
6 it.
7 In this case, as you said, we had an
8 appraisal several years before which was,
9 you know, faulty, or so far off that we didn't
10 think we could acquire it.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, when
12 you have an appraisal that is so far off --
13 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- isn't
15 there something you can do, as opposed to being
16 stuck with that appraisal? I mean, is there any
17 way of just throwing it out and getting another
18 appraisal?
19 I mean, common sense would say, in this
20 particular area of the state, that that land was
21 worth more than $38,000. I mean, that was
22 just --
23 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- it's
25 crazy.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. I think you probably
2 would rather hear from Pete on this. And I'll
3 give a shot at it if you'd like. But --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You said how
5 great he was a little while back.
6 MS. WETHERELL: He is. He's wonderful. He
7 truly is.
8 MR. MALLISON: Thank you, Ginger.
9 General Butterworth, I think in -- in this
10 particular case, it might be helpful to review
11 exactly what was happening and why we did not
12 get a new appraisal at the time.
13 When we had the property appraised back in
14 1996, and we got a value of $38,000 --
15 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
16 MR. MALLISON: -- which we offered to
17 the -- the owner at that time and it was turned
18 down, it is true that our staff looked at that
19 appraisal.
20 And while it was technically an appraisal
21 that needed to be approved under the standards,
22 and we did approve that, we did feel that the
23 underlying assumption that the appraiser made
24 that there was some disadvantage, if you will,
25 to having property located in an area that was
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1 surrounded by state land was -- was probably not
2 true.
3 And we did consult with the Division of
4 Recreation and Parks who we were buying that
5 property for, our own acquisition agents, and
6 our appraisers on the issue of whether we ought
7 to get a new appraisal at that time, because the
8 real estate agent for the owner knew that that
9 was probably not a valid number, in her opinion.
10 But what we were faced with at that time
11 was an owner who was listing the property for
12 sale for $250,000.
13 So in our impression, even if we had had
14 the property reappraised and it had doubled or
15 tripled or quadrupled in price, we would still
16 be a long way from what the owner wanted.
17 And as it turned out, the only reason that
18 the owner sold the property for $100,000
19 I think, as you are all well aware, is that he
20 was in some kind of a serious health situation,
21 and he needed the money.
22 Had that not occurred, we had no reason to
23 believe that he would have ever accepted a price
24 that was -- was somewhere in that range.
25 Another factor that we considered was the
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1 fact that this owner had owned this property for
2 a fairly long period of time, and had not sold
3 it. And so in our view, there was not any real
4 reason to go out and try to get --
5 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
6 MR. MALLISON: -- a new appraisal at that
7 time.
8 So we did take that into consideration,
9 General. And had we felt that there were facts
10 at that time that justified it, we could have
11 done that, but we did not.
12 And in retrospect, obviously, it came back
13 to bite us somewhat.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I -- could I
15 follow up, Pete, with just a question,
16 Governor?
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And that is simply:
19 This case aside, do we have the ability, if, as
20 the General mentioned, an appraisal just on its
21 merit appears to be so far out of whack, do we
22 have the ability to -- to ask for another
23 appraisal?
24 MR. MALLISON: Yes, we do.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So --
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1 MR. MALLISON: And, again, as I mentioned,
2 in this case, we did look at that issue. But
3 for the reasons that I explained, we did not
4 think that it was warranted.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So there's no special
6 trigger to warrant that. You can do it simply
7 because you look at a face value of an
8 appraisal, and simply decide that it may be out
9 of whack, and we've got the unfettered
10 ability --
11 MR. MALLISON: We have that ability,
12 Commissioner Brogan. But I -- you know, I think
13 that you all need to understand that we would
14 not do that unless we were very certain of
15 that. Because there is a lot of scrutiny that
16 not only you and your aides bring to this
17 process, but the Auditor General.
18 And we would feel that we would need to be
19 very certain of -- of our position before we
20 would want to do that. But we can do that.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: May I make a
22 comment, Governor, since I kind of precipitated
23 this, and then was joined by the
24 Attorney General.
25 I'm a little taken by the soft shoe routine
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1 I'm getting right now on the -- on the appraisal
2 business.
3 You know, most everybody that we deal with
4 when we go to buy a piece of property thinks
5 their property is worth more than what we are
6 offering.
7 So the fact that an owner comes back with a
8 statement of $250,000 is his -- his property
9 estimate of worth should not cause you all in
10 your business of acquiring property for the
11 State at the -- at the best price possible, but
12 so -- also reasonable within the marketplace.
13 And so I -- I don't think that's a very
14 good reason for not questioning an appraisal of
15 38,000. Particularly when, you know, two years
16 later, lo and behold, we come back with
17 $160,000 appraisal.
18 So I -- I would just hope that -- that the
19 Department would really take a good hard look at
20 the process for appraisals, and questioning
21 appraisals, and recognizing that every owner of
22 property thinks his property is worth more than
23 probably it will be appraised for.
24 So I would just ask you to -- to really
25 take a good hard look at the way you're doing
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1 the appraisal business. And, in fact, I -- I
2 would appreciate sitting down with your
3 appraisal process people, and -- and getting a
4 better understanding of exactly how you go about
5 your business.
6 MR. MALLISON: We'd be happy to do that.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thanks.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
9 moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Okay. Item 12, our
12 Annual Land Management Review Reports. And I'll
13 probably need to read something into the
14 record.
15 I've been asked to comment on one of the
16 management audits that -- as part of this total
17 report, and that's the Barefoot Beach Preserve
18 audit, which is just one of the audits.
19 In this audit, we looked at the on-site
20 management -- that's what we do in all of
21 them -- we look at the on-site management of the
22 property.
23 And in this case, the way that we were
24 providing --
25 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
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1 MS. WETHERELL: -- access from the beach
2 internally -- to the internal site, this report
3 did not in any way mean to imply that we had
4 evaluated the access to the park from the public
5 road point. It's -- it was purely an assessment
6 of the access to the beach from this site.
7 And I just wanted to clarify that for the
8 record.
9 Okay?
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Item 13 is a
15 conveyance.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Item 14 is a sublease
21 agreement.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Item 15 is a right-of-way
2 easement and a utility easement.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection it's approved.
7 MS. WETHERELL: And, Governor, I've been
8 requested by Treasurer Nelson's staff to bring
9 back up the subject of the item we had at the
10 last Cabinet meeting. This was the Rotenberger
11 eminent domain item.
12 And you had directed us to continue
13 negotiations with those two land owners who had
14 improvements on there.
15 So, you know, I think what
16 Commissioner Nelson had wanted to ask today, and
17 he had to leave early, was he wanted me to
18 assure you that we will continue to make sure
19 that these people are compensated for at least
20 what they have -- for at least what they paid
21 for the purchase of this property, their
22 purchase price.
23 And so I -- what I wanted to do today then
24 was to provide the assurance for the record that
25 the Department is doing that, will do that.
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1 We have gotten in touch with the appraiser
2 of this property. He is here today if you did
3 want to speak with him. He is updating his
4 estimate on the fair market value, and will have
5 that within two weeks.
6 But I wanted to tell you that should it
7 come back in that his revised value estimate is
8 below what they actually paid for this property,
9 that based on our legal review of these
10 circumstances, based on what the judge would
11 likely award them if we go in front of a jury,
12 that it is our -- our intention to offer them at
13 least what they paid for their property.
14 So that's what I wanted to relay to you
15 today, and put it in the record.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
17 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Thank you.
18 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
19 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
20 *
21 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
22 12:33 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 127 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 30TH day of SEPTEMBER, 1998.
17
18
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR 100 Salem Court 20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301 850/878-2221 21
22
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