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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
4 Representing: 5 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 7 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 8 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION BOARD OF TRUSTEES, INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 9
10 The above agencies came to be heard before THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles 11 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, 12 May 12, 1998, commencing at approximately 9:51 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT Registered Professional Reporter 18 Certified Court Reporter Certified Realtime Reporter 19 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large 20
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 100 SALEM COURT 24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301 850/878-2221 25
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES Governor 4 BOB CRAWFORD 5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN Comptroller 7 SANDRA B. MORTHAM 8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH Attorney General 10 BILL NELSON 11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN Commissioner of Education 13 * 14
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
May 12, 1998 3
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION: (Presented by Tom Herndon, 4 Executive Director)
5 1 Approved 5 2 Approved 5 6 3 Approved 6
7 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE: (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III, 8 Director)
9 1 Approved 7 2 Approved 8 10 3 Approved 8 4 Approved 8 11 DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT: 12 (Presented by James T. Moore, Executive Director) 13 1 Approved 10 14 2 Approved 10
15 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION: (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D., 16 Deputy Commissioner)
17 1 Approved 13 2 Approved 13 18 3 Approved 13 4 Approved 14 19
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
May 12, 1998 4
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION: (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D., 4 Secretary)
5 1 Approved 15 2 Deferred 15 6 3 Approved 37
7 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION: 8 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D., Secretary) 9 1 Approved 38 10 2 Approved 38 3 Approved 38 11 4 Approved 39
12 BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT 13 TRUST FUND: (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell, 14 Secretary)
15 1 Approved 40 2 Approved 40 16 3 Approved 40 4 Approved 41 17 Substitute 5 Deferred 41 6 Approved 42 18 7 Approved 42 8 Approved 42 19 9 Approved 42 10 Approved 43 20 11 Approved 43 12 Approved 43 21 Substitute 13 Approved 50 14 Approved 50 22 Substitute 15 Approved 52
23 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 54
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION May 12, 1998 5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:38 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
4 Administration.
5 MR. HERNDON: Item number 1 on the
6 State Board is the approval of the minutes of
7 the meeting held on April 28th, 1998.
8 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, the minutes are adopted.
12 MR. HERNDON: Item number 2 is approval of
13 the fiscal determination required by
14 Article VII, Section 16(C) of the
15 Florida Constitution of one or more series in an
16 aggregate amount not exceeding a hundred and
17 sixty-two million nine hundred and twenty-five
18 thousand dollars of the Housing Finance
19 Corporation Homeowner Mortgage Revenue Bonds,
20 Series 1998, 1 through 4.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, Item 1 is approved.
25 MR. HERNDON: Item number 3 is the
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION May 12, 1998 6
1 reappointment of Elsie Crowell, the Insurance
2 Consumer Advocate, as Chair of the Florida
3 Commission on Hurricane Loss Projection
4 Methodology.
5 TREASURER NELSON: And I move it.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, Item 3 is approved.
9 MR. HERNDON: That completes the agenda.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Tom.
11 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
12 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
13 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE May 12, 1998 7
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
3 the minutes of the April 28th meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, the minutes are
9 approved.
10 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution
11 on -- for the Lottery Revenue Bonds amending
12 certain -- incorporating certain technical
13 change, a result of dialogue with the rating
14 agencies.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Moved approval, with
16 a quick question, Governor.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Ben, does this keep
19 us still on the same time line as far as --
20 MR. WATKINS: Yes, sir. Still on the same
21 time line. We expect the first sale to occur --
22 well, we'll be ready to go to market at the end
23 of May.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Governor.
25 MR. WATKINS: That's market conditions
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE May 12, 1998 8
1 permitting, end of May, early June.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a report of
5 award on the annual installment of 300 million
6 dollars in Preservation 2000 bonds. The bonds
7 were sold at competitive sale and awarded to the
8 low bidder at a true interest cost of
9 4.79 percent.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, that's approved.
14 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a report of
15 award on the competitive sale of two million
16 seven hundred and eighty-five thousand dollars
17 in University of South Florida Housing Revenue
18 Bonds. The bonds were awarded to the low bidder
19 at a true interest cost of approximately
20 5.23 percent.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, that's approved.
25 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE May 12, 1998 9
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
3 concluded.)
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT May 12, 1998 10
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 1 are the
4 minutes of the January 21, '98, Cabinet meeting.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is our performance based
10 program budgeting progress report for January
11 through March of '98, including contracts and
12 purchases over $25,000.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. MOORE: Governor, if I might, I'd like
18 to share with you, under that second item there
19 is something I think is extremely good news.
20 You'll recall that we joined in a pilot
21 project for Tallahassee Memorial Regional
22 Medical Center here to take the DNA capability
23 we use in forensics, and apply it over to child
24 identification.
25 Parents now who -- under this pilot program
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT May 12, 1998 11
1 that will focus on 500 births. Parents who now
2 go in to have a child delivered in
3 Tallahassee Memorial are given an option at the
4 time of -- of -- in processing, to have the
5 blood of the baby drawn immediately after birth,
6 blotted on some specially treated paper that is
7 produced by Life Technologies, and available
8 then to store that baby's DNA for perpetuity in
9 the event that it were to be needed if the child
10 was missing, or we had a disaster, or some other
11 kind of situation where the identification would
12 be in question.
13 That program again -- with no government
14 intervention. The parents take that DNA, and
15 that specially treated envelope home with them
16 when they leave the hospital with that child.
17 And they -- they control that, not the
18 government, and not the hospital.
19 But in the event it were to be needed, then
20 we will in the Department of Law Enforcement,
21 with your support, continuing support, will do
22 the DNA classification at that time, using the
23 current technology at that time that's -- that
24 is available.
25 We've had over 500 so far -- or just short
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT May 12, 1998 12
1 of 500 participants so far. We've only had two
2 refusals. And the results have been
3 overwhelmingly possible -- positive.
4 Our Missing Children Information Advisory
5 Board will meet next month, and they'll decide
6 how do we generalize then the results of this
7 pilot across the rest of the state of Florida,
8 and make it available for other parents who are
9 expecting newborns.
10 And I think that's a good application by
11 the men and women in our Department to look for
12 ways to prevent crime, instead of just reacting
13 to it after the fact. And I'm real proud of
14 that accomplishment.
15 Thought I'd bring that to your attention.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
17 MR. MOORE: Thank you, sir.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
19 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
20 Agenda was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION May 12, 1998 13
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Education.
3 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles,
4 Commissioner Brogan, members of the State Board
5 of Education, good morning.
6 Item 1, minutes of the meeting held
7 March 10th and March 24th, 1998.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, Brevard District
13 School Board request to increase the number of
14 charter schools within its district.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, that's approved.
19 DR. BEDFORD: Item 3 is an amendment to
20 6A-10.024, Articulation Between Universities,
21 Community Colleges, and School Districts.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION May 12, 1998 14
1 DR. BEDFORD: Item 4 is appointments. The
2 appointees are Frank R. Satchel, Jr., and
3 Thomas W. Moore to a term that expires May 31st,
4 the year 2001; and the reappointment of
5 Jack P. Brandon, with an expiration date of
6 May 31st, the year 2002.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
12 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
13 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 15
1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, recommend
4 approval of the minutes from the meeting held
5 April 28th, 1998.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
10 Without objection, they're approved.
11 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, defer
12 consideration of Item number 2 until May 28th,
13 1998, Cabinet meeting.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move to
15 defer.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion to defer.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3 is recommend
21 the Secretary to be authorized to enter a draft
22 order of remand, and direct the Department of
23 Environmental Protection to initiate rulemaking
24 to implement Section 377.2425(1)(c),
25 Florida Statutes.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 16
1 And we have a couple of folks who would
2 like to speak on this, both for and against.
3 We've agreed to give them 10 minutes each,
4 Governor, if --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
6 DR. BRADLEY: The first is Mr. Rob Angerer,
7 representing Coastal Petroleum Company, who has
8 10 minutes.
9 MR. ANGERER: My name is Bob Angerer. I --
10 partner of Angerer and Angerer here in
11 Tallahassee. We appear on behalf of the
12 Applicant, Coastal Petroleum Company, to oppose
13 the staff recommendation.
14 This is the fourth appearance before this
15 group of people, wearing various hats, that I've
16 made concerning this surety. The first was when
17 we were here, as you remember, for 515 million
18 dollars. We appeared and urged you to reject
19 the staff recommendation because it was
20 unlawful. Subsequently the First District Court
21 of Appeal held it was unlawful.
22 We were here the second time when the staff
23 recommended that you adopt a 1.9 billion dollar
24 surety. We urged you that it also was unlawful,
25 and the First District Court of Appeal held it
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 17
1 was unlawful.
2 On the third visit here, we -- you remember
3 the -- you may remember the slide show and about
4 the oil and various things. The staff
5 recommended that you adopt a four-and-a-quarter
6 billion dollar surety. We urged you that that
7 was unreasonable. And as a matter of fact now,
8 we've had the day in court, and the
9 Administrative Law Judge has ruled not only was
10 it unreasonable, it was unrealistic, it was
11 flawed, and in some elements absurd.
12 Now, I'm here for the fourth time to urge
13 you to reject the recommendation of the staff,
14 which urges you to remand the case back to the
15 Administrative Law Judge for additional
16 findings.
17 The judgment -- and I don't know how many
18 of you have had the opportunity to read the more
19 than 80-page judgment following a three week
20 trial that cost more than a million dollars with
21 the premier experts in the world addressing
22 these issues before the judge. It has
23 3500 pages of transcript, and boxes of
24 exhibits. So it was very thoroughly
25 considered.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 18
1 And her recommendation was two hundred and
2 twenty-four million five hundred thousand
3 dollars, which is the largest surety ever
4 required for any drilling application anywhere,
5 as far as we know, in the world.
6 Very conservative. And she specifically
7 made findings that said that the choice of Ixtoc
8 as a basis was, as I said, unreasonable and
9 unreliable; that it's flawed and unreliable; and
10 that the greater weight and more competent
11 substantial evidence in the proceeding
12 established that Coastal's worst case
13 scenario -- this was the worst of the worst --
14 rather than the Department's 150 million
15 gallons, is a reasonable maximum.
16 With respect with the political comment
17 that this was greenmail, that Coastal has no
18 intention to drill -- and this will be
19 drilled -- she specifically found as a fact:
20 Activity by Coastal over the past 50 years
21 through its partners and joint venturers belies
22 the environmental petitioner's claims that
23 Coastal has abandoned oil exploration in favor
24 of a more lucrative settlement or buy-out by the
25 State, the greenmail theory.
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 19
1 So we now have a finding of fact, after a
2 trial, that that is belied.
3 In fact, what she said was, nothing in the
4 text of the law relates to motive if the
5 environmental petitioners are correct in their
6 apprehension of greenmail by Coastal to induce
7 the State to buy its leases or to support a
8 claim of inverse condemnation or taking, the
9 surest way to dissipate those motives is to
10 permit the drilling.
11 So we would urge you to grant this, if
12 there's any concern about greenmail, as she has
13 found as fact.
14 We would urge you to reject the staff
15 recommendation. We've laid out our reasons,
16 pointing out that 97-49 shouldn't be applied.
17 There is no specific authority that --
18 express authority that allows you to remand.
19 And the exceptional cases where it's been
20 allowed before are very limited, and this
21 doesn't fit. And if it is remanded, the 45-day
22 requirement of Section 120.60, that is the
23 licensing, would require an -- a default permit
24 here.
25 But probably most important is the fact
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 20
1 that this recommended order remand -- this
2 remand of the recommended order makes findings
3 of fact on your behalf, which is contrary to
4 120.57, that says that each of you have to read
5 the record; re-- that is, 3500 pages of
6 transcript -- review the materials; and then
7 find that there is no competent substantial
8 evidence to support her findings. I don't think
9 that's been done. And yet this draft order that
10 you're asked to sign has you doing -- has that
11 as a prerequisite.
12 It is based on three incorrect assumptions,
13 first, that she relied on risk, finding of fact
14 1-- number 38 finding of fact says she didn't
15 rely on risk.
16 Another incorrect assumption is that she
17 has ignored the relief wells. She didn't ignore
18 them. She found that in some parts of the
19 world, relief wells have rarely been required,
20 but in the Gulf of Mexico, they haven't.
21 Now in Louisiana, there was a production
22 gas platform close to shore that had a problem.
23 And offshore California there was a relief
24 well that had to be drilled where there was no
25 casing, they broke the law. But she found as a
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 21
1 fact, that no relief wells had been required in
2 the Gulf of Mexico in Federal waters.
3 The last thing is that -- the predicate for
4 the remand is that the cleanup equipment was
5 used by her to ameliorate or to cushion this
6 determination, and she specifically found in
7 finding 137 that this was ignored.
8 So they are asking -- when they ask you to
9 sign that order, they're asking you to ignore
10 findings of fact, make ones contrary to what
11 she's found, when the predicate's not there, and
12 when, in fact, the evidence showed to the
13 contrary.
14 It is too late now to stop the effects of
15 the delay. This one was filed in 1992. At some
16 point, delay becomes a taking, under the
17 precedence of the United States Supreme Court.
18 It doesn't mean the lease is invalidated, means
19 there's a partial taking.
20 For this continue -- runs a risk of having
21 to pay for that delay, and this is a very
22 important prospect.
23 The last thing I want to say is a policy
24 reason.
25 Maybe you have read, and maybe you haven't,
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 22
1 the recent Scientific American Journal, March of
2 1998. In a special report, the end of cheap
3 oil. And you may have seen this in Forbes, you
4 may have seen this in some of the other --
5 There's a serious concern with the amount
6 of oil in the world. Economies are booming
7 because of cheap oil. States are having
8 surpluses because of cheap oil. The business is
9 dependent on it. And political reality is
10 dependent upon it as well.
11 These authors conclude that before the next
12 decade is over, the flood of conventional oil
13 will crest, and production will enter a
14 permanent decline.
15 If they are right, the world will need to
16 move quickly to avoid the price hikes,
17 recessions, and political struggles that oil
18 shortages, or the threats of them, have
19 historically provoked.
20 We have responsibility in Florida. We're
21 part of a world community that has to come up
22 with the oil for the next generation, and for
23 this generation.
24 Off the coast of Florida, in an
25 environmental fashion, if we work together, we
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 23
1 can produce a significant amount of oil. There
2 are some -- this prospect would be the largest
3 oil discovery east of the Mississippi River
4 ever.
5 And there is every reason to believe it's
6 there. It's right on trend with J. And it's
7 not the only one. So there's a significant
8 resource that the livelihood of these people in
9 this state, and in the free world, in the way we
10 know -- the political reality we know, is going
11 to be dependent. We have to participate.
12 We'd urge you to deny the recommended
13 order, and to grant the permit.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, could I ask
15 a question, please.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Sir, why do you think
18 the Administrative Law Judge completely
19 discounted the spill that took place off the
20 coast of Mexico that took 21 days to cap, and
21 did require the drilling of a relief well in
22 order to fix that problem?
23 I agree with you relative to the Gulf of
24 Mexico and the spills and the relief wells in
25 the Gulf of Mexico. And I'm asking you to
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 24
1 speculate, I understand, on another person's
2 recommended order.
3 But why is it that you think that the
4 Administrative Law Judge discounted that
5 particular spill?
6 MR. ANGERER: The spill in -- off the --
7 Campeche Bay in Mexico is a unique spill. It
8 took 295 days to contain that spill. It was --
9 first of all, it was drilled into what is
10 called -- has been called the Golden Lane. The
11 most productive oil wells in the world are
12 there. They have thousands of feet of pay.
13 So it was an area unlike -- that is, the
14 geologic conditions that are in the ground
15 that -- from which oil could be produced are
16 remarkable there. They're not duplicated in
17 Florida in this trend that I referred to.
18 So to begin with, the amount of oil that
19 could come out of there is much larger than the
20 amount of oil that could come out of a well in
21 this geologic area.
22 In the second place, that well was governed
23 by Mexican law, and -- and -- as I said, it was
24 295 days before they capped it. So not only was
25 the flow horrendous out of the hole, but it was
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION May 12, 1998 25
1 allowed to persist a very long period of time.
2 And because of that, you wound up with a very
3 large number.
4 The hearing officer, I believe, found on
5 the testimony of the witnesses, and I think it's
6 in her findings, that that is not the conditions
7 here. That's one of the things she referred to
8 as absurd.
9 This is a different geologic province,
10 these are different laws, different regulations,
11 and -- so, therefore, the period of time that
12 you would cap it would be much quicker.
13 Now, what happened down there was they
14 didn't begin to drill the relief wells
15 immediately either. In -- in that particular
16 situation, as in Santa Barbara, the casing was
17 not properly put.
18 What a casing is is a pipe that's cemented
19 into place, and from which you can close the
20 hole. If you don't have such a casing, then you
21 just have an open hole in the rock that -- as
22 in -- in Florida, can pour out a fracture in the
23 ground -- I mean, in California, it can pour out
24 a fracture in the ground.
25 That's what happened in Santa Barbara.
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1 They didn't have a pipe, they didn't have a
2 casing, and it poured out.
3 In Campeche, they didn't cement it in
4 properly, and it's very difficult to control a
5 well. The laws in Florida, and the laws of the
6 United States since that time are much more
7 stringent.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any other questions --
10 MR. ANGERER: Thank you.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12 DR. BRADLEY: The next speaker is
13 David Guest, representing the Earth Justice
14 Legal Defense Fund, and other parties. He also
15 has 10 minutes.
16 MR. GUEST: I will -- I will not take
17 10 minutes. I'm -- I represent the
18 environmental petitioners, David Guest.
19 The issue here today concerns really simply
20 a question of law. We contend that the
21 recommended order recommended an interpretation
22 of law for you all that was incorrect. And that
23 the correct interpretation is of the term
24 maximum oil spill.
25 And we urge you to adopt an interpretation
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1 that means simply that, that the words
2 maximum -- the word maximum really just means
3 nothing more than maximum.
4 We're not asking you here to review the
5 whole record, or to try to change any findings
6 of fact. We're strictly here on a question of
7 law, and what does the word maximum mean, what
8 does the phrase maximum oil spill mean.
9 And we're bound by the four corners of the
10 findings of fact in the recommended order.
11 Those findings themselves, I submit, show you
12 that a maximum oil spill, as properly
13 interpreted, means a spill which requires the
14 drilling of a relief well.
15 And, of course, what a relief well is, is
16 you've got a hole in the ground, that's the
17 oil -- the oil well hole; the oil's gushing out
18 of it in uncontrolled flow; and the only way you
19 can stop it, because it's on fire, or some other
20 reason, everything's all bent up and falling
21 over, is by drilling a second well that goes way
22 under the ground, and intersects the well bore.
23 Then you fill it full of mud and stop that.
24 That's why it takes up to three or
25 four months to do that. It's a pretty tricky
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1 business to get, you know, a hole intersecting
2 another hole three hundred feet or -- 3,000 or
3 5,000 feet under the ground.
4 Here's what the findings of fact show.
5 Number 85 at page 33 says: Most disastrous
6 spills are from blowouts. They are
7 uncontrollable discharges of oil.
8 Finding of fact number 88: If not
9 controlled, blowouts can cause considerable
10 damage. In extreme cases, the drilling rig may
11 collapse onto the well head, aggravating the
12 spill, and making it more difficult to halt the
13 flow of oil from the well.
14 As an example of how that happens, the
15 Administrative Law Judge referred to the spill
16 that you referred to, Commissioner Brogan, about
17 the Ixtoc spill. And there she finds in finding
18 of fact number 97 that oil gushed from the drill
19 pipe in extreme pressure; the petroleum fumes
20 led to a huge fire; everybody had to evacuate;
21 the whole thing burned, collapsed, fell down,
22 broke the -- broke the pipe coming out of the
23 floor of the ocean, destroyed all the
24 machinery. They made it so the only way they
25 could -- they could deal with it was by drilling
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1 a relief well.
2 They had to drill two relief wells in that
3 case, because the first one missed. And we're
4 not arguing for that extreme scenario that you
5 drill two relief wells, which, in that case,
6 took a great length of time. We're saying just
7 one.
8 Finding of fact number 92: Blowouts are
9 rare, but they do happen around the world, and
10 in the Gulf of Mexico. This is in her findings
11 of fact.
12 She finds they result from human error, or
13 a chain of miscalculation, possibly combined
14 with mechanical failures.
15 She finds that the threat is to St. George
16 Island and other sensitive barrier islands,
17 Apalachicola Bay, and world renowned beaches,
18 and to the commercially and environmentally
19 treasured lands in the Florida panhandle.
20 Finding of fact number 99. Ultimately, she
21 says: Two relief wells, as I said, were needed
22 at Ixtoc.
23 She finds in finding of fact number 100
24 that relief wells can take as little as 30 days,
25 but under normal to adverse circumstances, take
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1 three to four months. That's why we're asking
2 you for 120 days.
3 She finds additional time would be needed
4 to locate, transport, and set up a relief well
5 rig. We're not asking for that time either.
6 We're trying to be reasonable here.
7 However, in finding of fact number 139 --
8 which is the crux of why we're here -- the
9 Administrative Law Judge rejected the
10 Department's theory, and really the Commission's
11 theory, that -- that relief wells would be
12 needed on the ground that a relief well has not
13 been needed in the Gulf of Mexico in American
14 waters in the last 15 years, and that as
15 Mr. Angerer said, the only one was a complex,
16 multiple production well platform in Louisiana.
17 The finding of fact does not say it was a gas
18 well, and we're bound by the findings of fact.
19 That is a combination finding of fact and
20 conclusion of law, because it's adopting the
21 standard for maximum. The standard is
22 15 years. If it hasn't happened in the last
23 15 years, then it doesn't count as maximum
24 anymore. And that's what our problem is.
25 Because you can see that blowouts that
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1 require relief wells are a real risk. They're a
2 real risk in the oil industry. And you know
3 that, because this is a standard technology.
4 She makes extensive findings of fact about how
5 you do a relief well. You know, you go get a
6 rig to do it. People know how to do it. This
7 is not something weird or surprising. It's
8 something you've got to be ready for.
9 And here's what I think you can analogize
10 it to. You can analogize it to the worst, the
11 maximum air crash that you'd have at the
12 Tallahassee Airport. I'm sure they have foam
13 out there if a big jet has to come in with its
14 landing gear up. I'm sure they've got fire
15 trucks with everything they need in case a big
16 jet crashes there.
17 And I ask you the question: If you were to
18 decide what the maximum air crash at the
19 Tallahassee Airport was, would you look and say
20 what was the worst thing that happened in the
21 last 15 years where thousands of flights came in
22 safely; or would you say, it's the one that
23 comes in with its landing gear up that has to be
24 foamed; or the one that comes in and just
25 crashes short of the runway that needs fire
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1 trucks and ambulances and everything else.
2 You do the right thing. You know what
3 maximum means. Maximum means --
4 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
5 MR. GUEST: -- the one that you could see
6 could really happen, and you know that could
7 really happen. Her findings of fact show you.
8 What could really happen is you could have a
9 blowout that would require a relief well, that
10 would run for 120 days at the rate she
11 specified.
12 So let me answer and say, yes, you should
13 remand. You have the legal authority to do it,
14 it's well established in the case law. I myself
15 had the pleasure of having a case remanded more
16 than once myself, and -- and we went back to
17 hearing. And there's nothing unusual or
18 surprising about that.
19 You should remember that you're not the
20 Department of Environmental Protection issuing
21 the permit. That's what he's talking about
22 about the default. This is the
23 Administration Commission, and all you're doing
24 is approving the Department's recommended
25 surety. So there's no connection between those
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1 things.
2 Mr. Angerer says that finding of fact
3 number 38 says she did not consider risk. I
4 submit that if you have any doubt about what
5 that says, you can read the text of it. It
6 doesn't say that. It says the chances of a
7 spill are remote.
8 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
9 MR. GUEST: That's not the same as saying
10 she didn't consider risk. Of course we know
11 it's remote. The chances of a plane crashing
12 are remote, the chances of having a car accident
13 on the way to work are remote. But they do
14 happen, and we have systems to set up to prepare
15 for those things.
16 On -- and one final thing, just to clarify
17 it for the record. Mr. Angerer says this is the
18 biggest oil find that they've proven, the
19 biggest oil find east of the Mississippi in the
20 history of the United States.
21 The finding of fact by the hearing officer
22 said basically, this is somewhat speculative,
23 and the standard she said was that this is worth
24 taking a look at.
25 I'd submit not quite the same as finding
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1 that this is the biggest tip of all time.
2 And -- as to the matter of Ixtoc,
3 Commissioner Brogan, those are in findings of
4 fact 92 through 97.
5 And basically the story of the rig blowing
6 up and catching fire is what happened there.
7 She finds that the Mexican regulations were at
8 the same, and so forth.
9 I don't think we can rely on Ixtoc, because
10 she said we can't.
11 I would urge you to not review any findings
12 of fact and adopt the proposal of the staff to
13 remand for figuring out what the maximum oil
14 spill damage would be with a relief well that
15 required 120 days to put in.
16 Thank you.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Question, Governor.
18 I would agree with you on Ixtoc, that we
19 can't rely on that based on the finding of fact,
20 but I would ask you to speculate as well.
21 Is it your opinion that the possibility of
22 a blowout in the Gulf of Mexico, or a
23 possibility of a blowout in this particular
24 drilling site, is a potential. And if that is a
25 potential, is there a potential for the need of
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1 a relief well to be dug in order -- or drilled
2 in order to --
3 MR. GUEST: Most definitely.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- cap the problem.
5 MR. GUEST: Most definitely.
6 No, the distinction, I think, with Ixtoc is
7 that what makes Ixtoc different was that -- was
8 that it was such a huge amount of oil that
9 flowed initially at 30,000 barrels per day. The
10 hearing officer, the Administrative Law Judge
11 here finds that it runs at approximately
12 6,000 barrels per day, which is a fifth as
13 much.
14 Those -- that area has huge reserves
15 under -- under -- under the sea and everywhere
16 else. And I think that really the big
17 difference was how much oil there was to flow
18 out. That really is the difference.
19 She finds it was an American rig rented
20 from Sedco out of Texas; supervised by an
21 American supervisor rented from Sedco; with
22 maintenance personnel rented from Sedco of
23 Texas, an American team; and an American advisor
24 to advise the Mexican government on the
25 operation of its rig.
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1 The response team that came was mainly
2 Americans, but there were people from all over
3 the world. And the relief wells were dug by
4 Americans.
5 We were disappointed that that awful
6 scenario, the series of mistakes that took
7 place, as a real world example of what can
8 really happen with Americans running drilling
9 rigs in the Gulf of Mexico wasn't used by the
10 Administrative Law Judge, because we thought
11 that was applicable.
12 But we're bound by the findings of fact,
13 and we have to accept them.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further questions?
15 Thank you, sir.
16 MR. GUEST: Thank you.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: What's your pleasure?
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move staff
19 recommendation.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Staff recommendation has
21 been moved.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
24 Is there discussion?
25 Without objection, staff recommendation is
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1 adopted.
2 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
3 concluded.)
4 *
5
6
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9
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12
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18
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FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION May 12, 1998 38
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of the April 28th, 1998,
5 Commission meeting.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, the minutes are
10 approved.
11 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request
12 approval of the proposed rule amending the
13 boundaries of the Cypress Grove Community
14 Development District.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, request
20 authorization to enter the draft order of
21 transmittal.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 4, request
2 authorization to enter the draft final order
3 denying acceptance of the request for review.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move the authorization.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 DR. BRADLEY: That's all.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
11 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
12 *
13
14
15
16
17
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20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1 is an option
3 agreement for the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway CARL
4 project.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2 is an option
10 agreement --
11 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
12 MS. WETHERELL: -- for Rookery Bay CARL
13 project.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved, second.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 are two purchase
19 agreements for Coupon Bight/Key Deer CARL
20 project.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4 is an option
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1 agreement for the Juno Hills CARL project.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 5,
7 assignment of an option agreement for
8 Paynes Prairie, and a waiver of requirement to
9 provide legal access.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 MS. WETHERELL: And excuse me. I'm sorry.
12 And we're recommending deferral till
13 June the 9th.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- on deferral.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Item 6 is an option
22 agreement for Homosassa Springs State Wildlife
23 Park Addition --
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7, two option
5 agreements for Chipola River Greenway.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8, an option agreement
11 for Etoniah/Cross Florida Greenway.
12 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9, a purchase
19 agreement for FSU.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MS. WETHERELL: Item 10, fourteen option
25 agreements for Corkscrew Regional Ecosystem
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1 Project.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MS. WETHERELL: Item 11 is a conveyance.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Item 12, acquisition of
13 Hutchinson Island CARL project, St. Lucie County
14 as the Managing Agency, and confirmation of the
15 policy statement.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move --
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- approval.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 13 is the
23 Ybor building lease, sublease, and a waiver of
24 the competitive bid requirements.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I move the item with an
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1 amendment to the errata sheet dated 12 May, '98,
2 that was distributed with your agenda packets.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved with an amendment.
4 Is there a second?
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think --
7 shouldn't we hear from the Mayor for awhile,
8 Governor? And the -- give him a hard time maybe
9 a little bit?
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I'd just like
11 to state, since the Department of State has been
12 working with --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think the Mayor better
14 come up here so we --
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- the Mayor and the
16 City --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Look him in the eye.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's our
19 former Speaker of the House over there, too, I
20 think, Governor.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Get him up here.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Get his --
23 needs looked at, too. Yeah. It's -- I think --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Mr. Speaker.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I think
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1 this is the first time that the former Speaker
2 has come before this -- this Committee.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: It is.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Or this --
5 MR. WALLACE: Dan Fuchs told me I was going
6 to get a certificate of appreciation.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Couldn't get anybody
8 to sign it.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- if I just might
12 comment that the Mayor has worked very
13 diligently, as well as his staff, have done a
14 great job.
15 And this is a project -- I was down and
16 visited with him, toured the site. This would
17 not be possible without this private/public
18 partnership, and I'd just like to commend him
19 for his foresight.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: There were some knotty
21 legal problems in this, too; were there not?
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes. And the attorneys
23 on both sides worked diligently to work them
24 out.
25 MR. GRECO: Governor, lady and gentlemen of
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1 the Cabinet, if I'd have known you had so much
2 fun, I'd have come to one of these before.
3 Playing musical instruments and taking
4 pictures. It's really a neat -- neat thing to
5 watch.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's --
7 MR. GRECO: I'm sure they're not always
8 that way.
9 Let me say thank you to all of you in
10 advance for not only this, but everything
11 that -- how considerate you've been to our City
12 in the last three years that I've been there.
13 We've never asked for anything that -- that we
14 needed that we didn't get from any of you.
15 And this particular project -- and I don't
16 think I have to explain it to anyone here,
17 because you're most familiar with it -- is going
18 to give us the opportunity to -- to resurrect
19 Ybor City in a way that we've wanted to do for
20 over 35 years since urban renewal took over.
21 This building, if it weren't for you and
22 several of the others that have given a little
23 bit at a time to -- to keep them alive and keep
24 them in good shape, would probably be gone, and
25 it would erase a very important part of
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1 history.
2 This, because of the public/private
3 relationship that we have with the
4 Snyder Company and -- and others, we're going
5 to -- to make it a -- about a 50 million dollar
6 project when it's over.
7 And I think you'll see that Ybor City will
8 come back stronger than ever, certainly in a
9 different way than it was many years ago when
10 our grandparents were there.
11 But you're giving us that opportunity, and
12 I assure you that we expect probably in about
13 two years time to have over 4 million people
14 visit this site, and, in turn, they will see the
15 El Centro Espanol Building and the Italian Club
16 and the Cuban Club, and all of the ones that you
17 helped preserve for us.
18 We -- we consider this is a very, very
19 important step. We're going to put a trolley in
20 that connects Ybor City with downtown. That
21 will be in by the end of '99, as will the new
22 Marriott hotel downtown. We will announce a
23 hotel in Ybor City two blocks from this project
24 within a couple of weeks.
25 Things are really moving. And the State
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1 has been a big help in helping us get there, not
2 just now, but for a long, long period of time.
3 And these buildings would have been long gone
4 had it not been for bits and pieces of dollars
5 that you all have -- have extended to us for a
6 long period of time.
7 And I thank you so much. I'm really
8 enthusiastic about this particular project. We
9 need it. We have so many venues in the
10 Tampa Bay area now, practically everything
11 New York has got, maybe less of them with
12 baseball, football, everything going well.
13 But we need the tourist trade that 20 years
14 ago wasn't so terribly necessary. And I think
15 Ybor City's going to really be the key to that.
16 So I am appreciative of all of you and what
17 you do for us on a daily basis, and certainly
18 this project here. It was complicated,
19 Governor, but between your staff and ours,
20 and --
21 And thank you, all of you. You worked very
22 hard on this, and asked many pertinent questions
23 I understand. And we're appreciative of what
24 you're doing.
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Do you think we can
2 really do this, Mayor, without a bloodless
3 bullfight?
4 MR. GRECO: Without what?
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Bloodless bullfight?
6 MR. GRECO: I couldn't hear.
7 Governor, I shot skeet too many years, like
8 you did.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: A bloodless bullfight.
10 MR. WALLACE: A bloodless bullfight.
11 MR. GRECO: What?
12 Maybe I just wanted to forget that.
13 That's a very old story. When I was
14 married before --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: That was the last great
16 hope for Ybor City, as I remember.
17 MR. GRECO: Well, that's why it took
18 30,000 --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to get this --
20 MR. GRECO: -- because we didn't have that.
21 I wouldn't bring that up again, no, sir.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's only,
23 what, 28 years, Governor? Is that what it was?
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: A few years ago.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think it
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1 died for lack of a second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
3 All right. Any further discussion?
4 So many as favor -- is there -- it's been
5 moved and seconded.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There's no
7 second, Governor. I don't know.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, it's
9 unanimously adopted.
10 Thank you.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 14 is a
12 quitclaim deed on a maintenance dredging
13 easement.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move it.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Substitute Item 15
19 is a policy for project mitigation and a policy
20 for mitigation banking on State-owned lands.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the -- you talked
24 about knotty problems a little earlier, and I
25 suspect the Secretary and her staff haven't
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1 found too many knottier problems than
2 mitigation banking over the -- over the last
3 month.
4 And I would first like to commend the
5 Secretary and her staff for all the hard work,
6 and data collection, and all the discussion and
7 debate that's taken place on this issue.
8 I've continued to look at it, as I know
9 members of the State Board have, over months,
10 maybe years, I suppose, since we started having
11 this discussion.
12 And want the Secretary and the members of
13 the Board to know at least how I feel, that I --
14 I am comfortable with the -- the project
15 mitigation. And I really do believe that we've
16 come a long way on that one, and I am fully
17 supportive of the project mitigation.
18 I am still, however, concerned about the
19 issue of mitigation banking and where we are
20 with that. It's no reflection on the Secretary
21 or staff. This is an issue I think we can
22 continue to discuss and debate forever, and
23 maybe I'll never be fully comfortable with the
24 mitigation banking proposals that we've been
25 talking about.
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1 And largely I'm concerned about the
2 potential for a net loss of wetlands with the
3 use of mitigation banking.
4 So today I am of -- certainly not trying to
5 curtail any discussion, Governor. But if
6 there -- if there is none, or at least a place
7 to start, I would like to move that we do move
8 forward with our policy on project mitigation,
9 and let that continue, and that we deny the
10 policy on mitigation banking on State-owned
11 lands.
12 Put that in the form of a motion.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
17 Any discussion?
18 Many as favor the motion, signify by saying
19 aye.
20 THE CABINET: Aye.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Rule's adopted.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And thank you again,
25 Secretary --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND May 12, 1998 53
1 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- very much.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
4 Okay. Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's all
7 there is.
8 (The Trustees of the Internal Improvement
9 Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
10 *
11 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
12 11:18 a.m.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
May 12, 1998 54
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
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4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 53 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 22ND day of MAY, 1998.
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR 100 Salem Court 20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301 850/878-2221 21
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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