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         4                       T H E     C A B I N E T

         5                 S T A T E    O F     F L O R I D A

                               STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
         9                       DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
        10                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE                
                                 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION

        13      _________________________________________________________


        15               The above agencies came to be heard before THE 
                FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Chiles presiding, in the Cabinet 
        16      Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on 
                Tuesday, August 28, 1997, commencing at approximately 9:47 
        17      a.m.

        18                            Reported by:

        19                           DEBRA R. KRICK
                                     Court Reporter
        20                      Notary Public in and for
                              the State of Florida at Large
        21      ________________________________________________________






         1                    Representing the Florida Cabinet:


         3                    LAWTON CHILES

         4                    Governor


         6                    BOB CRAWFORD

         7                    Commissioner of Agriculture


         9                    BOB MILLIGAN

        10                    Comptroller


        12                    SANDRA B. MORTHAM

        13                    Secretary of State


        15                    BOB BUTTERWORTH

        16                    Attorney General


        18                    BILL NELSON

        19                    Treasurer


        21                    FRANK T. BROGAN

        22                    Commissioner of Education





         1                               I N D E X


         3      (Presented by Tom Herndon, 
                          Executive Director)
                ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
                1                       Approved                  12
         6      2                       Approved                  12
                3                       Approved                  12
         7      4                       Approved                  13
                5                       Approved                  13




















         2      (Presented by Ben Watkins, III) 

         3      ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
                1                       Approved                  14
         4      2                       Approved                  14 
























         2      (Presented by Robert Bradley)

         3      ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
                1                       Approved                  15
         4      2                       Approved                  15
























         2      (Presented by Fred Dickinson)

         3      ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
                1                       Approved                  16
         4      2                       Approved                  16
                3                       Approved                  17
         5      4                       Approved                  17






















                DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
                (Presented by Larry Fuchs)
                ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
         4      1                       Approved                  18
                2                       Approved                  18
         5      3                       Approved                  18
                4                       Approved                  19





















                (Presented by Robert L. Bedford)
                ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
         4      1                       Approved                  20
                2                       Approved                  30
         5      3                       Approved                  35
                4                       Withdrawn                 35





















                (Presented by Secretary Virginia Wetherell)
                ITEM                    ACTION                   PAGE
         4      1                       Approved                  45
                2                       Approved                  45
         5      3                       Approved                  45
                4                       Approved                  46
         6      5                       Approved                  46
                6                       Approved                  52
         7      7                       Withdrawn                 52




















         1                         P R O C E E D I N G S

         2                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Good morning.  

         3                (Invocation by Father Semanhyia J. Boateng-Mensah 

         4           of Saint Eugene Chapel, and Pledge of Allegiance.)

         5                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Our next Cabinet meeting will 

         6           be September the 9th.  

         7                I need a motion on the Parole Qualifications 

         8           Committee. 

         9                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion on Parole 

        10           Qualifications Committee.

        11                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

        12                GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  We have the staff 

        13           recommendations and I think everybody has their things 

        14           in front of them.  

        15                Moved and seconded; without objection, it is 

        16           approved. 

        17                We're going to go a little bit out of order today 

        18           in a couple of these areas to allow some people to 

        19           move on to other things.  








         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  The State Board of 

         2           Administration. 

         3                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 1 is the minutes of the 

         4           meeting held on August 12, 1997. 

         5                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Move it. 

         6                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         8           objection, it's approved.

         9                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 2 is approval of  

        10           fiscal sufficiency for Florida State Department of 

        11           Transportation 250-million-dollar Turnpike bond.

        12                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Move item 2.

        13                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

        14                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        15           objection.

        16                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 3 is an interest rate  

        17           exception for the Housing Finance Authority of Volusia 

        18           County.

        19                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Move item 3. 

        20                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

        21                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; item 3, 

        22           without objection, it's approved.  

        23                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 4 is an interest rate 

        24           exception for the Housing Finance Authority of Palm 

        25           Beach County.


         1                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Move 4.

         2                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

         3                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         4           objection, item 4 is approved.

         5                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 5, on behalf of the 

         6           Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund, we request your 

         7           approval to file for adoption Rule 19-8.013. 

         8                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I move the approval for 

         9           filing.

        10                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

        11                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        12           objection, it's approved. 

        13                MR. HERNDON:  Item number 2 in that category 

        14           requests your approval to file for notice Rule 

        15           19-8.011.

        16                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Move approval for filing 

        17           for notice.

        18                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

        19                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        20           objection, that's approved.

        21                MR. HERNDON:  That completes the agenda.  Thank 

        22           you, Governor.

        23                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.  




         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Division of Bond Finance. 

         2                MR. WATKINS:  Item number 1 is approval of  

         3           minutes of the August -- 

         4                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes.

         5                TREASURER NELSON:  Second.

         6                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         7           objection, it's approved. 

         8                MR. WATKINS:  Item number 2 is a resolution 

         9           authorizing the issuance and competitive sale of up to 

        10           $250 million in Department of Transportation Turnpike 

        11           revenue refunding bonds.

        12                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the item.

        13                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        14                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        15           objection, it's approved.  

        16                MR. WATKINS:  Thank you.

        17                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.  










         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Florida Land and Water 

         2           Adjudicatory Commission. 

         3                MR. BRADLEY:  Item number 1 is request approval 

         4           of the minutes of the August 12, 1997, Commission 

         5           meeting. 

         6                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval. 

         7                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

         8                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         9           objection, it's approved.  

        10                MR. BRADLEY:  Item number 2 is request 

        11           authorization to enter the draft final order regarding 

        12           Permit No. 9320004072. 

        13                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move that item. 

        14                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        15                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        16           objection, it's approved.

        17                MR. BRADLEY:  Thank you.

        18                GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  

        19                The Department of Highway Safety and Motor 

        20           Vehicles.   

        21                MR. BRADLEY:  We had a mistake on the minutes.  

        22           We're going to try to correct it right now, Governor. 

        23                We'll correct it later, Governor.  It was a wrong 

        24           date.  There was a typo on the minutes. 



         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Department of Highway Safety 

         2           and Motor Vehicles.  

         3                MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, item 1 is approval of 

         4           the minutes from the last two previous Cabinet 

         5           meetings.

         6                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes, assuming 

         7           those dates are correct.

         8                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

         9                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        10           objection, it's approved. 

        11                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 2 is recommend approval of 

        12           the quarterly report from the period ending June, 

        13           1997.

        14                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

        15                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        16           objection, it's approved. 

        17                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 3 is recommend appointment 

        18           of the following doctor to a four-year term on the 

        19           advisory board.  It's Tom Dickinson, no relation.  

        20           He's a doctor in good standing with the Florida 

        21           Medical Association and the Department of Business and 

        22           Professional Regulation.

        23                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Dickinson, we better check 

        24           that.

        25                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move item 3 on the 


         1           condition that he is not related.

         2                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --

         3                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

         4                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded; without objection, 

         5           it's approved.

         6                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 4 is a grant for the Florida 

         7           Highway Patrol to publicize some dissemination of 

         8           Florida Highway Patrol public service messages to 

         9           publicize a heightened awareness campaign on safety 

        10           belts.

        11                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval. 

        12                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        13                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        14           objection, it's approved.

        15                MR. DICKINSON:  That concludes our agenda.  Thank 

        16           you.  











         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Department of Revenue. 

         2                MR. FUCHS:  Item 1 is a request for approval of 

         3           the minutes of the June 26, 1997, meeting.

         4                TREASURER NELSON:  Move.  

         5                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.

         6                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         7           objection, it's approved. 

         8                MR. FUCHS:  Item 2 is a request for approval and 

         9           authority to enter into a contract with the Florida 

        10           Association of Court Clerks to operate and maintain 

        11           the automated child support enforcement local entity 

        12           repository collection systems.  

        13                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

        14                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        15                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        16           objection, it's approved.  

        17                MR. FUCHS:  Item 3 is a request for permission to 

        18           notice amendments to Rule Chapter 12B-4, Florida 

        19           Administrative Code, relating to documentary stamps. 

        20                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

        21                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        22                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        23           objection, it's approved.

        24                MR. FUCHS:  Item 4 is a similar request for 

        25           permission to notice amendments to Rule Chapter 12D-7, 


         1           12D-8, 12D-10, 12D-13, 12D-16, 12D-18, 12D-51 and 

         2           12-9, Florida Administrative Code, rules relating to 

         3           ad valorem taxation.

         4                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval. 

         5                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  And second.

         6                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Item 4 has been moved and 

         7           seconded; without objection, it's approved.

         8                MR. FUCHS:  Thank you.

         9                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.


















         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  State Board of Education. 

         2                MR. BEDFORD:  Governor Chiles, members of the 

         3           State Board of Education, good morning.  

         4                Pay no attention to the sound, I am supposed to 

         5           stall for a few minutes up here.  I thought I'd tell a 

         6           few jokes, maybe talk about the Florida Gators, do 

         7           some things like that.

         8                GOVERNOR CHILES:  That's not a joke.

         9                MR. BEDFORD:  We have a little problem with our 

        10           video.  When we unplugged it for the picture, it seems 

        11           to have caused a slight delay.  

        12                Item 1, quarterly reports for April 1st through 

        13           June 30, 1997.

        14                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

        15                COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.

        16                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        17           objection, it's approved.  

        18                MR. BEDFORD:  Item 2, the Educational Standards 

        19           Commission and the Educational Practices Commission 

        20           Standards for the use of reasonable force by school 

        21           personnel.  

        22                I would like to introduce at this time Dr. 

        23           Charlotte Minnick-Boroto, who will come forward, and 

        24           while she's coming forward, I think Commissioner 

        25           Brogan will begin the discussion of this item.


         1                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thanks, Bob. 

         2                Governor and members of the State Board of 

         3           Education, what we're presenting to you today comes 

         4           from a recent piece of legislation that is called the 

         5           Teacher Empowerment Bill.  This contained a number of 

         6           caveats that were all meant to make certain that not 

         7           only classrooms and campuses were safer places for 

         8           teachers and children, but to also better support our 

         9           professional educators in creating that atmosphere.  

        10                One of the components of the law requires the 

        11           State to come up with some guidelines on the use of 

        12           reasonable force by school personnel.  We charged two 

        13           standing groups that are in law to that end, the 

        14           Florida Education Standards Commission and the Florida 

        15           Education Practices Commission, who worked jointly on 

        16           the development of these guidelines.  

        17                The guidelines are essentially meant to do 

        18           several things, to clarify the authority of local 

        19           school personnel and give guidance on appropriate 

        20           professional conduct by school personnel, but also to 

        21           see to it that teachers and administrators have a 

        22           clear expectation as to their role in the use of 

        23           reasonable force if and when it ever becomes a 

        24           necessity, and we hope that is never the case for  

        25           school personnel, but to provide them with a framework 


         1           of information and, ultimately, training that they're 

         2           going to need to better understand when and where 

         3           reasonable force may be used, how to use that 

         4           reasonable force, not only to protect themselves and 

         5           to protect the students with which -- with whom 

         6           they're intervening, but also other students and their 

         7           colleagues.  

         8                The two groups that I mentioned did a wonderful 

         9           job on a very tricky and delicate issue.  There is 

        10           reason to believe that you can pre-prescribe, if you 

        11           will, an inordinate number of guidelines, 

        12           requirements, regulations on the use of reasonable 

        13           force.  But as the group worked, what they've come to 

        14           realize is that there are no two situations the same 

        15           in terms of dealing with the student or students and 

        16           having to apply reasonable force.  Each particular 

        17           instance is separate.  It has its own individual 

        18           components, and by virtue of that fact, it's 

        19           impossible to write enough rules and regulations and 

        20           guidelines to protect teachers and to protect 

        21           students.

        22                And they did a wonderful job in putting together 

        23           information that we think is based largely on common 

        24           sense, because whenever you're dealing with students 

        25           in a reasonable force situation, you've got to rely 


         1           heavily on not only the common sense, but also the 

         2           training and the information that have been afforded 

         3           to those professional educators.  

         4                But we hope that these guidelines will give a 

         5           much better profile to our professional educational 

         6           community, as I mentioned, as to when and where 

         7           reasonable force might be used and, again, to make 

         8           certain that we do the very important next step, which 

         9           is the training that all of our professional educators 

        10           are going to need.  

        11                Each school is going to be provided, and I think 

        12           already has, with a draft version of the video that 

        13           you're about to see.  Thousands and thousands of these 

        14           pamphlets are being readied for dissemination, all 

        15           stamped, of course, based on the fact that this Board 

        16           needs to take action before it becomes a final 

        17           document.  And then we are going to be working with 

        18           the districts to identify some best practice on the 

        19           training that will be needed to take this information 

        20           to the next level and to better educate teachers, 

        21           administrators, parents and others as to what 

        22           reasonable force is all about, where it might become 

        23           appropriate to use and how, indeed, it can be helpful, 

        24           if needed, to secure a safer and more disciplined 

        25           environment. 


         1                So before I do anything else, I want to applaud 

         2           the two groups who worked so very hard on this, and 

         3           they spent a great deal of time putting this package 

         4           together.  And that's the Standards Commission and the 

         5           Education Practices Commission.  

         6                And I will now turn it over to the executive 

         7           director and allow her to share some of the 

         8           information with you. 

         9                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  Good morning, Governor 

        10           Chiles and members of the Cabinet.  I am Charlotte 

        11           Minnick- Boroto, director of the Education Standards 

        12           Commission.  

        13                I'd like to introduce the new director of the 

        14           Education Practices Commission, and that's Kathleen 

        15           Richards.  Kathleen is sitting right here.  

        16                And also I'd like to introduce Niji Odutola.  He 

        17           is my assistant with the Standards Commission.  

        18                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I see you back there, 

        19           Niji. 

        20                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  He is here.  

        21                On behalf of our members, we're here today to 

        22           bring you their recommendations on the use of 

        23           reasonable force for school personnel.  This indeed 

        24           was a joint effort by both Commissions.  We worked 

        25           together from the beginning to the very, very end of 


         1           this; we met together, and I'd like to point out to 

         2           you that there was unanimous agreement on the 

         3           recommendations that you have before you today.  

         4                Your staff has received copies of the report and 

         5           the brochure, and I think you have also -- and in 

         6           addition to that, we would like to share with you our 

         7           legislative directive, our methodology and more 

         8           details about the guidelines through a video, and then 

         9           will be available for questions following that.  

        10                So I believe --

        11                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I should make mention as 

        12           she is turning on this video that I asked them to 

        13           fast-forward over my two-minute preamble.  I knew 

        14           you'd appreciate that.  And so instead, we're going to 

        15           have some words from Secretary of State Sandy Mortham.

        16                (Video playing.) 

        17                MR. BEDFORD:  Charlotte is available if you have 

        18           any questions.

        19                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir? 

        20                TREASURER NELSON:  Does that mean spanking is 

        21           allowed? 

        22                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  No, it does not.

        23                TREASURER NELSON:  Why doesn't it? 

        24                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  Let me point out that it in 

        25           no way signifies that corporal punishment -- this is 


         1           not correlated with corporal punishment.  

         2                What it means is that teachers should be trained 

         3           to have a variety of management of conduct 

         4           alternatives to use.  And if it is necessary, if there 

         5           is physical danger that would potentially harm the 

         6           student themselves, other students or the teachers, 

         7           they may use physical force.  It is intended to be 

         8           nonviolent physical force, and there are trainings 

         9           that help teachers to learn techniques for nonviolent 

        10           physical force.  

        11                It is not supposed to be cruel and unusual and 

        12           excessive.  It does not mean putting tape over a 

        13           child's mouth, stuffing paper in their mouth, 

        14           slapping, spanking.  

        15                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I was watching the news 

        16           this morning before I left home, and the local news 

        17           had a little bit -- kind of a tickler on this issue.  

        18           And the newscaster, who was getting ready to cut away 

        19           for a commercial, said, "And we'll be back to let you 

        20           know more about how now teachers will be using force 

        21           in Florida's classrooms."  And I knew there were 

        22           parents all over the state of Florida who felt 

        23           taekwondo was now going to be the art form that we 

        24           were going to use in force classes.  

        25                We expect very little to change to the negative 


         1           side, if any.  More, we expect, as I said to some of 

         2           the media out front earlier, hopefully with more 

         3           training that we do on this, even less confrontation 

         4           of a physical night, because a big part of the 

         5           training is going to be directed at how to, as 

         6           Charlotte mentioned, defuse the situation before it 

         7           escalates into a teacher or administrator having to 

         8           use physical force.  

         9                But it still is very important that if and when 

        10           that occasion arises, and, very sadly, it always has 

        11           and always will, even a little more in the future 

        12           based on some of the societal problems we're seeing, 

        13           we want our teachers to feel supported.  

        14                Commissioner Nelson and I looked at each other 

        15           when the mother, I think, said it best, it's ludicrous 

        16           to imagine that an administrator or a teacher can't be 

        17           afforded the support to do what they have to do to 

        18           provide a safe and disciplined learning environment.  

        19           That's what this is about.

        20                GOVERNOR CHILES:  I like very much the term 

        21           "nonviolent physical force."  I don't understand it, 

        22           but I like it very much. 

        23                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  Well --

        24                GOVERNOR CHILES:  What is it?

        25                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  -- believe it or not --


         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  I would like to think that's 

         2           what I gave my children at times, but they would not 

         3           agree, I don't think. 

         4                MS. MINNICK-BOROTO:  That's true.  Mine probably 

         5           wouldn't, either.  

         6                There are alternatives that should be used prior 

         7           to any use of physical force.  Those include verbal 

         8           desists.  I will give you an example.  If somebody is 

         9           tapping a pencil on a table, that's really a 

        10           disruption.  And I would say, "Stop tapping that 

        11           pencil."  If someone throws that pencil, there may be 

        12           another form of desist that's used, taking away the 

        13           pencil, talking to the child.  

        14                If someone starts poking that pencil in someone's 

        15           eye, a student's eye, then the teacher would have been 

        16           trained, and these are -- I don't want to use police 

        17           terms, but exceptional student education teachers now 

        18           get training in techniques that they can use that are 

        19           not techniques that are choking or grabbing someone's 

        20           arms so that there are bruises, but learn how to, for 

        21           instance, if you have to, to take a child's arms in 

        22           back of them, get them under control.  But there is no 

        23           hitting, there is no bruising, there is no throwing 

        24           into the wall, throwing into the window.  

        25                There are variables that have to be looked at,  


         1           and that's the size of the student, the size of the 

         2           teacher, the potential danger, if there is assistance 

         3           available from other folks in the school.  And so 

         4           there are techniques, and they are trained, especially 

         5           in this particular training package that's offered for 

         6           exceptional student education teachers.  

         7                There are teachers now out there who have had 

         8           this training, and there are systems set up at schools 

         9           so there are teams of teachers that will be called to 

        10           help in an instance where something might arise.

        11                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Mr. Commissioner, the Attorney 

        12           General and I would like to ask you whether in the 

        13           money that we won in the tobacco suit that you intend 

        14           to use for education, is there any plan to order any 

        15           weapons?

        16                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  We think this particular 

        17           program can be funded with approximately $4.6 billion 

        18           of the settlement money, Governor. 

        19                MR. BEDFORD:  Oh, dear.

        20                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Are there further questions? 

        21                Thank you very much.

        22                MR. BEDFORD:  Thank you, Charlotte.

        23                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  We still have 

        24           $7 billion left over.

        25                MR. BEDFORD:  That's my next item.


         1                I believe that it does take a vote of approval, 

         2           if you would.  

         3                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yes.  And I'd like to offer 

         4           the motion, and again, congratulate all the people who 

         5           worked so hard on this, Governor.

         6                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         8           objection, it's agreed to.  

         9                That was a difficult task, and I think it was--

        10                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Perhaps a cash stipend to 

        11           each of the member of the group of a million dollars 

        12           of the settlement money?  

        13                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  That's just one 

        14           day's interest.  

        15                MR. BEDFORD:  Item 3, Florida System of School 

        16           Improvement and Accountability, Revised.  We come 

        17           before you yearly with this item.  

        18                At this time, I'd like to bring forward Senator 

        19           Phil Lewis, and with Phil Lewis, we have Dr. Lee 

        20           Baldwin from Orange County, who is an assessment 

        21           expert.  And these gentlemen are members of the 

        22           Accountability Commission, and they are here to 

        23           present the item.

        24                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Much like the swallows 

        25           returning to Capistrano, Senator Lewis.


         1                SENATOR LEWIS:  I was sort of disappointed.  I 

         2           didn't know you could speak for only two minutes.  I 

         3           thought you put that --

         4                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  It's the power of video.  

         5                SENATOR LEWIS:  Governor and distinguished 

         6           members of the Cabinet, we have our annual report to 

         7           make to you.  This is our sixth appearance on the 

         8           Florida System of School Improvement Accountability.  

         9           It's not that we can't get it right.  It's just that 

        10           Florida statutes require the Commission to review and 

        11           revise the document annually.  

        12                The system has been developed and now is being 

        13           implemented by the Department of Education, and I 

        14           believe it's under implementation in every county. 

        15                There are some counties who have sort of run away 

        16           with the program and implemented it more than others,  

        17           I'd say Pinellas, Orange, maybe St. Johns, and others. 

        18                And it's obvious in Pinellas, the reading scores 

        19           have gone up, and I think it's now beginning to take 

        20           effect.  And you all know about the Sunshine 

        21           Standards, they are implemented. 

        22                The major change in this document is the result 

        23           of legislation passed in the 1997 session.  Many of 

        24           the legislative changes were supported by the 

        25           Commission over the last several years.  


         1                Two -- or three of these changes are, the 

         2           allocation of $10 per student for school advisory 

         3           councils to spend on the implementation of the school 

         4           improvement plan; the next one would be the 

         5           requirement that  majority members of the School 

         6           Advisory Committee must be persons not employed by the 

         7           School Board; and then the requirement for algebra and 

         8           the passage of a 2.0 average in your school is 

         9           required.  

        10                Those are all implemented now and hopefully are 

        11           going to make a dramatic change in the education of 

        12           people in Florida.

        13                The Commission is recommending the addition of an 

        14           attendance goal and the Goal 8 indicator.  This will 

        15           require a change in the State Board rule, which we've 

        16           talked to you about.  

        17                Several definitions have been added to the 

        18           glossary.  We've tried -- even those of us who are 

        19           very familiar with the definitions, we felt as though 

        20           a glossary was needed in that document every year, and 

        21           we've put it in there. 

        22                Appendix 1 has been revised due to the 

        23           legislative changes in the waiver process.  The 

        24           Commissioner of Education now has the authority to 

        25           waive Chapters 230 through 239, with the exception of 


         1           civil rights, health, safety and welfare requirements, 

         2           election compensation, organization of School Board 

         3           members and superintendents, graduation standards and 

         4           accountability standards.  The public meeting records, 

         5           public records will be open, as we all know that that 

         6           would be a mortal sin.  I just threw that in.  

         7                And due process hearings. 

         8                The Commissioner has been very prudent in how he 

         9           has waived those in the waiver process.  And keep up 

        10           the good work, Commissioner. 

        11                The Department is translating the document that 

        12           you have into Spanish, and the Department will print 

        13           and disseminate the document to the schools and school 

        14           districts.  

        15                And Dr. Baldwin, do you have anything to add to 

        16           that?  

        17                DR. BALDWIN:  No, sir.  You're a tough act to 

        18           follow.  

        19                SENATOR LEWIS:  Good. 

        20                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor, as always, I want 

        21           to thank Lee for being here, and I want to thank 

        22           Senator Lewis, who is sort of the champion of 

        23           volunteers in the state of Florida.  He has, as you 

        24           know, not only been on the Accountability Commission 

        25           and served as our chief administrator, if you will, of 


         1           that organization for many years, I think since its 

         2           inception, he also is on the State Board of Regents 

         3           and is a member of the Governor's Commission on 

         4           Education.  So he is well-versed in the intricacies of 

         5           all of these issues, and we appreciate his leadership 

         6           as always, as we do the members of the Accountability 

         7           Commission.  

         8                We thank you very much, Senator, for, as always, 

         9           the work you do, and the members of the group.  

        10                SENATOR LEWIS:  Thank you, Commissioner.  

        11                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And I would move the item.

        12                SENATOR LEWIS:  We have also been appointed -- 

        13           we're down to almost our last staff, Sarah Esner back 

        14           here, please stand and be recognized.  

        15                And for those of you who don't know, Dr. Michael 

        16           Biance has gone over to the University, FSU, and is 

        17           working in that Department.  I think he is going to 

        18           have his first class tonight.  

        19                And, of course, in all joking, I teased him, I 

        20           said, the quality and educational capacity of the 

        21           Accountability Commission has gone up proportionately 

        22           since he's now over at FSU.  We're going to miss him.

        23                GOVERNOR CHILES:  He did a great job for us.

        24                SENATOR LEWIS:  He did a very, very great job for 

        25           us.


         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  We will miss him, but we 

         2           congratulate him.  

         3                SENATOR LEWIS:  No other questions?  

         4                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And we have a search 

         5           underway, as a matter of fact, Governor and members of 

         6           the State Board of Education, for a replacement for  

         7           Mike.  And he did do a wonderful job, and we're lucky 

         8           to have him over at FSU, and he'll continue to be a 

         9           good partner for us.  

        10                So I move the item. 

        11                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.

        12                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        13           objection, the item is approved.

        14                MR. BEDFORD:  Item 4 is an amendment to Rule 

        15           6A-4.003.  We request permission to withdraw.

        16                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the item be withdrawn.

        17                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.

        18                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        19           objection, it's withdrawn.

        20                MR. BEDFORD:  Thank you. 







         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Trustees of the Internal 

         2           Improvement Fund. 

         3                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor, before we get to 

         4           the first item on this, while the Secretary is making 

         5           her way to the podium, would you mind if I ask a 

         6           question of the Secretary?

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Go right ahead.

         8                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Just very quickly -- before 

         9           I do that, I want to commend you on your leadership in 

        10           working with the Land Acquisition and Management 

        11           Committee.  I think y'all have done a wonderful job.  

        12           And I know you are working toward some ultimate 

        13           recommendations, I think, as early as October on some 

        14           of the P-2000 issues.  And since that particular 

        15           program, I guess, is now on the downslope as far as 

        16           acquisition and some of the important issues, I guess 

        17           what I wanted to ask the Secretary is, could you kind 

        18           of give us an idea of what sorts of recommendations 

        19           you've given to that needs and priorities group as 

        20           they work toward looking at further acquisition in 

        21           terms of what we have left to acquire as well as some 

        22           of the management issues?  

        23                I know that in trying to make some of these 

        24           P-2000 deals that we do out there, we've had some 

        25           people who have been a little more willing to settle 


         1           than others, and know that with the amount of money we 

         2           have left, it might lend a little urgency to some of 

         3           those unwilling sellers or at least those who are 

         4           willing to sell at too high a price to maybe 

         5           reconsider.  Are we prioritizing what we believe are 

         6           some of the major acquisitions we need to make as a 

         7           state with what we have left available and then manage 

         8           the total package?

         9                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Yes.  Thank you.  

        10                It is year, going into year 8 of the 10-year 

        11           P-2000 program.  And I guess it was about this time 

        12           last year that the Governor and I talked about how do 

        13           we bring a logical conclusion to this program?  You 

        14           know, there needs to be a logical conclusion to it, 

        15           and the Legislature this year addressed it and 

        16           directed the land management agencies to come 

        17           together.  And through this process we have the CARL 

        18           Committee, it's called LAMAC now, and to try to find a 

        19           logical way to bring closure to P-2000.  

        20                So this report that we're now directed by the  

        21           Legislature to bring to them in October should provide 

        22           that, and so the Department put together a 

        23           methodology, if you would, a framework for discussion 

        24           about how we bring closure to P-2000, and then what 

        25           should be next, if anything.  


         1                And as part of that, Commissioner, we need to 

         2           look at the -- what's left on the list, what are the 

         3           priorities, what particular parcels really need to be 

         4           purchased in order to make sense out of, you know, 

         5           what we've already purchased, what consideration 

         6           should we give to new things that want to be put on 

         7           the list, you know, with really three bond issues 

         8           left.  And that's what we have left.  You know, how 

         9           are we going to logically wrap this program up?  What 

        10           kinds of less-than-fee projects, you know, should we 

        11           pursue, which ones, those kinds of things, what kind 

        12           of historical archaeological projects, you know, need 

        13           to be pursued, and on and on and on, with a goal of 

        14           trying to address all the facets of the P-2000 program 

        15           so that we accomplish its mission by the time we wrap 

        16           up, and then also to have some discussion about what 

        17           should be next. 

        18                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And would that -- is that 

        19           meant to come as early as October, I understand?  

        20                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  The report is due in 

        21           October to the Legislature. 

        22                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  All right. 

        23                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Thank you, and I appreciate 

        24           your interest in it very much.

        25                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thanks, Governor.  


         1                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Thank you.

         2                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you. 

         3                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  All right.  Item 1 is a 

         4           disclaimer.

         5                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

         6                ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded --

         8                TREASURER NELSON:  Governor, I've got a question, 

         9           if I may.

        10                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir. 

        11                TREASURER NELSON:  Madam Secretary, may I direct 

        12           my question to someone in your legal department? 

        13                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Sure.  On this item?  

        14                TREASURER NELSON:  Yes, ma'am. 

        15                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Okay.  John Costigan. 

        16                TREASURER NELSON:  I'm in favor of issuing this 

        17           disclaimer, but when I started getting into it and 

        18           figuring out what had happened here, I had a question 

        19           about the dock that was built on the lands of the 

        20           State of Florida that apparently did not have a lease,  

        21           and so if, in fact, that is the case, it's there 

        22           illegally.  This is an issue separate and apart from 

        23           the issue of the disclaimer.  

        24                So what -- why don't you tell me about that? 

        25                MR. COSTIGAN:  I think first I would direct it to 


         1           Pete Mallison, who is more familiar with the history 

         2           of this, and can explain the dock. 

         3                TREASURER NELSON:  Okay. 

         4                MR. COSTIGAN:  Thank you. 

         5                MR. MALLISON:  Good morning.  

         6                I think that the history may help explain a 

         7           little bit of this, Mr. Nelson.  The property that 

         8           preexisted the dock and the structure that is there 

         9           today has been there for a long time.  And sometime 

        10           back in, I think it was about 1994, the Department 

        11           became aware that the structure was there without 

        12           benefit of a lease or a registered grandfathered 

        13           facility or anything like that.  We contacted the 

        14           owner at that time, and we were working with the owner 

        15           towards developing a temporary use agreement, I think, 

        16           at that time, and we were -- they were going to bring 

        17           the structure under lease.  

        18                At the same time, they were looking at the 

        19           portion of the structure that you have before you 

        20           today, which was eligible for a disclaimer, and they 

        21           were pursuing the disclaimer portion of that as well. 

        22               Then what happened was that the hurricane came 

        23           along and basically destroyed all the structures that 

        24           were out there, or substantially damaged them, and 

        25           they were issued, as I understand it, an emergency 


         1           permit to proceed to reconstruct the facilities that 

         2           were out there.  

         3                We have been working with them towards getting 

         4           the portion of the structure that was subject to the 

         5           disclaimer resolved in anticipation of having the 

         6           lease portion -- we needed to come to some conclusion, 

         7           if you will, on the disclaimer portion of it, which 

         8           will then allow us to determine the remainder that 

         9           will be subject to the lease.  

        10                So we have an agreement; it is not written, but 

        11           we do have an agreement with the owner, and the 

        12           owner's representative is here if you care to ask him 

        13           about it, under which once the disclaimer has been 

        14           finalized that the lease will be finalized, they will 

        15           pay the retroactive lease fees that would be otherwise 

        16           due, and we will be all squared away, if you will.  

        17                TREASURER NELSON:  All right.  Let me see if I 

        18           understand what you just said. 

        19                On this survey that I have here, I am told that a 

        20           dock was constructed without a lease.  The square 

        21           footage area of the dock is equal to the amount that 

        22           we are going to issue in the disclaimer.  So we have, 

        23           again, an area that was built without a lease over the 

        24           sovereign lands equal to what we're going to disclaim 

        25           today.


         1                So the question is, if that is illegally put 

         2           there, why?  And what does the Department intend to do 

         3           about that?  

         4                MR. MALLISON:  I guess that I -- the only answer 

         5           I can give you, sir, is that this was one of those 

         6           that kind of got caught in the transition between the 

         7           process that we used to use before the merger and the 

         8           process that we use after the merger.  And to further 

         9           complicate that, you have the hurricane that came in 

        10           and destroyed the structure, and furthermore, you have 

        11           the disclaimer, which is something that would not 

        12           normally be involved in this.  

        13                The -- as I mentioned, there was a dock there 

        14           prior to the hurricane, and we were in the process of 

        15           resolving that with the applicant when the -- both -- 

        16           the two complicating issues, which, again, were the 

        17           hurricane and disclaimer, sort of came in between.  

        18                There were -- the applicant did apply for permits 

        19           to do the construction, and so the structure was 

        20           permitted through the permitting process.  But you are 

        21           correct that there is not currently a lease on the 

        22           structure, although the applicant understands that 

        23           once the disclaimer is completed and the lease file is 

        24           completed, that they will owe us leases in arrears, if 

        25           you will, back to the appropriate time. 


         1                TREASURER NELSON:  Is it the intention of the 

         2           Department to grant the lease for the dock? 

         3                MR. MALLISON:  I can't answer that, because I do 

         4           not do that anymore, that is done through the field 

         5           office, and I frankly can't answer that.  I don't know 

         6           whether the applicant's agent could respond to that or 

         7           not.

         8                TREASURER NELSON:  Was the dock built illegally, 

         9           without a permit?

        10                MR. MALLISON:  No, sir.  There was a permit.

        11                TREASURER NELSON:  There was a permit for this 

        12           entire shaded area? 

        13                MR. MALLISON:  That's my understanding.

        14                TREASURER NELSON:  Would you take a look at this 

        15           and tell me?  

        16                MR. MALLISON:  Yes, sir.  My understanding -- and 

        17           the applicant, again, their agent is here -- is that 

        18           there is a permit, and I believe it has a permit 

        19           number and all of that.  

        20                MR. DANSER:  Yes, sir.  

        21                Russ Danser, representing the applicant.  

        22                The applicant did obtain a federal and state 

        23           permit for the docking structure and the work being 

        24           done on the boathouse.  They are permitted, yes, sir. 

        25                And there was some confusion -- maybe I can help 


         1           you a little bit on your question.  Pete, there was 

         2           some confusion as to exactly what was to be disclaimed 

         3           versus what was not to be disclaimed and put under a 

         4           lease.  That's because of the quality of the 

         5           photographs that were used to interpret what, in fact, 

         6           existed prior to 1957 were of very poor quality.  

         7                Obviously, from the photographs and from 

         8           statements made by people who had personal knowledge, 

         9           and through affidavits, of what existed there prior to 

        10           the 1950s, there was a docking structure there.  We 

        11           just -- I was never comfortable with stating to Pete 

        12           that, in fact, this square footage and so forth and so 

        13           on, this design was there, although the aerial photo 

        14           showed something.  

        15                So there's been a continuing ongoing negotiation, 

        16           you might say, as to what would qualify for disclaimer 

        17           versus what should be put under lease.  So the 

        18           applicant, the current owner, has agreed that the only 

        19           thing that he would seek a disclaimer for is strictly 

        20           the boathouse, which clearly shows in all the 

        21           photographs that we have, historic photographs, and he 

        22           would forget about the dock.  

        23                COMMISSIONER NELSON:  I don't have any problem 

        24           with the disclaimer.  I was just raising the question 

        25           of whether or not there was a permit.  You said there 


         1           was a permit?  

         2                MR. DANSER:  Yes, sir.  We have federal and state 

         3           permits for all the docking facilities that are out 

         4           there. 

         5                TREASURER NELSON:  Thank you.  

         6                MR. DANSER:  Thank you very much. 

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Further questions?  

         8                It has been moved and seconded.  Without 

         9           objection, it's adopted. 

        10                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Item 2 is a land exchange.

        11                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the item.

        12                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

        13                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        14           objection, approved.

        15                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Item 3 is an option 

        16           agreement for the CARL project and a waiver of survey.

        17                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval. 

        18                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

        19                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

        20           objection.

        21                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Item 4 is assignment of 

        22           option agreement for Lake Wales Ridge and a waiver of 

        23           the appraisal requirements and a waiver of survey.

        24                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.

        25                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.


         1                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         2           objection, it's approved.

         3                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Item 5 is an option 

         4           agreement for Triple M Ranch Wildlife Management Area. 

         5                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval. 

         6                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

         7                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         8           objection, it's approved.  

         9                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Item 6 is a settlement 

        10           agreement, and we have one speaker who has traveled up 

        11           from Collier County who would like to address you and 

        12           represents a number of groups in that area, David 

        13           Guggenheim.  

        14                MR. GUGGENHEIM:  Good morning.  Thank you for the 

        15           opportunity to speak this morning.  I'm David 

        16           Guggenheim, President and CEO of the Conservancy of 

        17           Southwest Florida.  The Conservancy of Southwest 

        18           Florida is a leading conservation organization, 

        19           located in Naples.  And I speak to you on behalf of 

        20           our 5,300 members, more than 640 volunteers, and our 

        21           32-member board. 

        22               First, I'd like to acknowledge the State's 

        23           leadership and dedication to protecting and sustaining 

        24           its natural environment and really all the hard work 

        25           that goes along with that. 


         1               This morning, I'm very pleased to express our 

         2           strong support of the proposed settlement for South 

         3           Golden Gate Estates.  This year has been a year of 

         4           real progress for South Golden Gate Estates 

         5           acquisition.  We've seen unprecedented unity and 

         6           cooperation among the environmental organizations, 

         7           landowners and the State. 

         8                We have worked successfully to build support of 

         9           our local government for this program, and this year, 

        10           thanks to the dedication and hard work of the State 

        11           DEP, Secretary Wetherell, Kirby Green, Pete Mallison, 

        12           Mike Ashey, the Division of State Lands, we have a 

        13           new, focused, results-oriented management plan with 

        14           specific achievable targets, and we are on target.  

        15                This year also, Al Gore came to south Florida and 

        16           he showed us the money, the money for South Golden 

        17           Gate Estates' acquisition.  And equally important, he 

        18           recognized the Estates and southwest Florida as part 

        19           of the Everglades and reaffirmed the administration's 

        20           commitment to its restoration. 

        21               And now before us is a real breakthrough in a 

        22           longstanding lawsuit, and this breakthrough promises 

        23           once and for all to break the logjam for acquisition.  

        24                So we support the proposed settlement.  It offers 

        25           a common sense, balanced solution.  It is responsive 


         1           to the needs of the landowners and the taxpayers and 

         2           the environment.  It allows us to move forward 

         3           rapidly; and frankly, it represents our best hope to 

         4           get South Golden Gate Estates' acquisition behind us 

         5           once and for all. 

         6               I'm also pleased this morning to offer support on 

         7           behalf of the Florida Wildlife Federation and the 

         8           Collier County Audubon Society, both of whom support 

         9           this proposed settlement.  And I believe you've 

        10           received a letter from the Florida Wildlife 

        11           Federation.

        12               The Conservancy of Southwest Florida has assisted 

        13           the State for many years in the acquisition process, 

        14           both for South Golden Gate Estates and other 

        15           acquisition programs, and we stand committed to seeing 

        16           this process through, offering our partnership to help 

        17           however we can through our land acquisition staff, our 

        18           technical expertise serving as your eyes and ears on 

        19           the ground in southwest Florida, to help build public 

        20           support and help administer public education about 

        21           these important programs.  

        22                And I think it's also important as we wade 

        23           through piles of legal documents not to lose 

        24           perspective on what it is we're doing here.  South 

        25           Golden Gate Estates, along with the Fakahatchee and 


         1           Belle Mead properties, are headwaters to 10,000 

         2           Islands, Rookery Bay and other delicate coastal marine 

         3           systems down there.  The alteration of the natural 

         4           sheet flow is having serious impacts on those delicate 

         5           estuarine areas.  Some areas are starved for fresh 

         6           water, others are inundated with fresh water, due to 

         7           the canal systems.  Every day that goes by without 

         8           restoration, these areas are suffering, and more 

         9           damage is being done. 

        10               It's also important to maintain perspective that 

        11           without -- without this program, South Golden Gate 

        12           Estates could have been part of the largest 

        13           subdivision in the world, and if developed as platted, 

        14           would double the population of Collier County, just 

        15           like that. 

        16                Once restored, however, we have a valuable and 

        17           beautiful resource that our children and we can enjoy 

        18           as Picayune Strand State Forest.  

        19                And finally, I'd just like to acknowledge the 

        20           exemplary efforts of all parties to get this 

        21           settlement achieved that will help make this vision a 

        22           reality.  

        23                And on behalf of the Conservancy and, really, the 

        24           entire environmental community of southwest Florida, I 

        25           respectfully urge you to approve this proposed 


         1           settlement.  And I thank you again for --

         2                GOVERNOR CHILES:  I want to thank you very, very 

         3           much for taking the time to come up here and make this 

         4           statement.  

         5                Generally, you know, once something is done and 

         6           it pleases somebody, you usually don't hear from them.  

         7           You always hear from people who are not pleased.  

         8                On behalf of all of the employees of the 

         9           Department of Environmental Protection and all of the 

        10           management and all of the other people, this is a 

        11           wonderful statement that you've made.  It says 

        12           something to them for all of the work that they have 

        13           been trying to do, especially as we have been trying 

        14           to develop eco- and management systems as opposed to 

        15           one by one trying to police somebody and through 

        16           paperwork or endless rules and regulations trying to 

        17           stop something that when anybody had the money they 

        18           probably could make happen anyway, but in that change, 

        19           in that culture, to make that change, an awful lot of 

        20           people misunderstood or seemed to and thought that, 

        21           you know, we had lost our focus on trying to protect 

        22           the environment.  I think the very things that you 

        23           said here demonstrate what Florida can hope to 

        24           accomplish with an eco-management system targeted and 

        25           knowing exactly what the bottom line that we're 


         1           looking for, and then trying to find all of the ways 

         2           that you can make a win-win situation or that you can 

         3           include the parties to make something like this 

         4           happen.

         5                As you know in this settlement, itself, all of us 

         6           are not pleased, that there's probably going to be a 

         7           little profiteering out of this.  Wish it wouldn't 

         8           happen.  

         9                But, on the other hand, to try to say that it had 

        10           to be perfect and not get it again is something that 

        11           we decided you have to go for what is the art of the 

        12           possible.  You have to try to put an agreement 

        13           together.  And the recognition that your group has 

        14           made in this, and I hope the other environmental 

        15           groups are listening a little bit, shows that as we 

        16           work together, it is unlimited what we can do.  

        17                And thank you very, very much for recognizing the 

        18           motivation, the hard work, the competency and 

        19           capabilities of our professional and state people who 

        20           have worked so hard on this.  It will do an awful lot 

        21           to boost their morale, I can tell you, and make them 

        22           work even harder in the future.  

        23                MR. DANSER:  Thank you very much.

        24                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  With that, Governor, I 

        25           would move the item.


         1                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.

         2                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded; without 

         3           objection, it's approved.

         4                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Thank you very much. 

         5                Second substitute item 7, we're asking for 

         6           withdrawal because of JAPC's concerns at this point.

         7                COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Move withdrawal.

         8                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Is that a deferral?

         9                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Withdrawal.  

        10                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.

        11                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion to withdraw?  Second?  

        12           Without objection.  

        13                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Thank you.  

        14                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor, before we -- I'm 

        15           sorry, Secretary, are you finished? 

        16                SECRETARY WETHERELL:  Yes, I'm through with this 

        17           agenda.  Thank you. 

        18                COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Okay.  I just wanted to, 

        19           before we break, we have all teased about the 

        20           $11.3 billion, but I do want to commend both you and 

        21           certainly General Butterworth, you know, it has been 

        22           something to watch.  And I know both of you are now 

        23           frequent fliers officially.  I think the General has 

        24           logged enough miles to join the space shuttle crew, 

        25           but it is -- you're to be applauded.  You've worked 


         1           very hard on something you've wanted very badly for a 

         2           very long time for the people, and we thank you for 

         3           what you do.  

         4                And let me be the first to say that it has never 

         5           been our belief that that money needs to be sucked 

         6           into anything.  The Governor's statements today, I 

         7           think, are very important that this absolutely can be 

         8           a win-win for the boys and girls of the state of 

         9           Florida.  And I've heard the General say as well, and 

        10           I agree, we don't have it yet, so we need to continue 

        11           to make certain that we do before we start putting it 

        12           in pigeonholes.  

        13                But I do want to congratulate both of you on your 

        14           hard work.  You're to be applauded for what you've 

        15           done.

        16                GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you. 

        17                (Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded at 

        18      11:05 a.m.) 









         1                        C E R T I F I C A T E

         2      STATE OF FLORIDA   )

         3      COUNTY OF LEON     )

         4               I, DEBRA ROTRUCK KRICK, Court Reporter at 

         5      Tallahassee, Florida, do hereby certify as follows:

         6               THAT I correctly reported in shorthand the 

         7      foregoing proceedings at the time and place stated in the 

         8      caption hereof;

         9               THAT I later reduced the shorthand notes to 

        10      typewriting, or under my supervision, and that the 

        11      foregoing pages 10 through 52 represent a true, correct, 

        12      and complete transcript of said proceedings;

        13               And I further certify that I am not of kin or 

        14      counsel to the parties in the case; am not in the regular 

        15      employ of counsel for any of said parties; nor am I in 

        16      anywise interested in the result of said case.

        17               Dated this 8th day of September, 1997.




        21                                 __________________________

        22                                 DEBRA ROTRUCK KRICK

        23                                 Court Reporter