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          2                  T H E   C A B I N E T
          3             S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
          6                  DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
          7                  STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                           ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
          8                  FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
                             ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
          9                MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                             TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
         10                   IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
                       The above agencies came to be heard before
         12   THE FLORIDA CABINET, Attorney General Bob Butterworth
              presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
         13   The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, May
              13, 1997, commencing at approximately 9:47 a.m.
                                  Reported by:
                               LAURIE L. GILBERT
         17             Registered Professional Reporter
                            Certified Court Reporter
         18                 Notary Public in and for
                         the State of Florida at Large
         22                     100 SALEM COURT
                           TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
         23                       904/878-2221
          1   APPEARANCES:
          2            Representing the Florida Cabinet:
          3            BOB MILLIGAN
                       BOB BUTTERWORTH
          5            Attorney General
          6            BILL NELSON
                       FRANK T. BROGAN
          8            Commissioner of Education
          9                           *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1                        I N D E X
          2   ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
              (Presented by Tom Herndon,
          4       Executive Director)
          5    1                  Approved                  6
               2                  Approved                  7
          6    3                  Approved                  7
               4                  Approved                  7
          7    5                  Approved                  7
               6                  Approved                  8
          9   (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
               1                  Approved                  9
         11    2                  Approved                  9
               3 (A) through (D)  Approved                 11
         12    4                  Approved                 11
              (Presented by James T. Moore,
         14       Executive Director)
         15    1                  Approved                 13
               2                  Approved                 13
         16    3                  Approved                 16
               4                  Approved                 17
         18   (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
                  Deputy Commissioner)
               1                  Approved                 30
         20    2                  Approved                 30
               3                  Approved                 55
         22   (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
               1-6                Deferred                 18
         24    7                  Approved                 18
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1                         I N D E X
              ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
              (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
          5       Secretary)
          6    1                                          19
          7   BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
          8   TRUST FUND:
              (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
          9       Secretary)
         10    1                  Approved                 20
               2                  Approved                 20
         11    3                  Approved                 21
               4                  Approved                 21
         12   Substitute 5        Approved                 21
               6                  Approved                 22
         13    7                  Deferred                 22
              Substitute 8        Deferred                 23
         15   (Presented by Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D.,
                  Executive Director)
               A                  Approved                 24
         17    B                  Approved                 28
         18            CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER             59
         19                           *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
          2            (The agenda items commenced at 9:55 a.m.)
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  We'll have a
          4       short modification on our agenda order.  By
          5       popular demand, the State Board of Education
          6       will be last on the agenda.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  That way we can
          8       reserve all afternoon, if need be.
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  All
         10       afternoon if needed.  And also into the morning,
         11       if necessary.  In fact, the Governor and
         12       Secretary of State might be back after being
         13       away from their trip before we finish the
         14       agenda.
         15            So the people who were after that
         16       unanimously asked us to please defer that item
         17       till the end.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  Why don't we recess and
         19       see if he can drive nails with a hammer and talk
         20       at the same time.
         21            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Oh, I can do that.
         22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I believe we
         23       can probably build your house quicker than he
         24       can finish his agenda.
         25            With the Department --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Are you just going to
          2       sit down there and let me take this beating,
          3       General?
          4            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  You're on your own.
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  The -- we
          6       have a deferral on the Department of
          7       Environmental Protection presentation on
          8       mitigation banking; is that correct?
          9            MS. WETHERELL:  (Nodding head.)
         10            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
         11       Without objection, that'll be deferred.
         12            Our first item will be the State Board of
         13       Administration.  And I'll turn the Chair over to
         14       General Milligan.
         15            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Thank you, sir.
         16            First item.
         17            MR. HERNDON:  Mr. Chairman, the first item
         18       is the approval of the minutes of the meeting
         19       held on April 29th.
         20            TREASURER NELSON:  I move it.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And second.
         22            Without dissent, approved.
         23            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 2 is approval of
         24       fiscal sufficiency for a nine million dollar
         25       Leon County Florida Housing Finance Agency bond
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       issue.
          2            TREASURER NELSON:  I move it.
          3            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          4            And without dissent, approved.
          5            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 3 is approval of
          6       a 9.4 million dollar Bay County fiscal
          7       sufficiency for a Florida Housing Finance Agency
          8       bond issue.
          9            TREASURER NELSON:  And I move it.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         11            And without dissent, approved.
         12            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 4 is approval of
         13       a 13.6 million dollar fiscal sufficiency for
         14       Alachua County for a Florida Housing
         15       Finance Agency bond issue.
         16            TREASURER NELSON:  And I move that.
         17            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  With a second.
         18            And without dissent, approved.
         19            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 5 is 15.7 million
         20       dollar Florida Housing Finance Agency bond issue
         21       for Seminole County.
         22            TREASURER NELSON:  And I move it.
         23            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         24            Without dissent, approved.
         25            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 6 is approval of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       an interest rate exception on an issue for
          2       approximately 1 million dollars for
          3       Osceola County, also a Florida Housing Finance
          4       Agency proposal.
          5            TREASURER NELSON:  And I move it.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          7            And without dissent, approved.
          8            MR. HERNDON:  That completes --
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Thank you.
         10            MR. HERNDON:  -- the agenda.  Thank you.
         11            (The State Board of Administration Agenda
         12       was concluded.)
         13                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Division of
          2       Bond Finance.
          3            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 1 is approval of
          4       the minutes of the April 29th meeting.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Moved and
          8       seconded.
          9            Any discussion?
         10            Passes.
         11            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 2 is adoption of
         12       a resolution authorizing the redemption of State
         13       of Florida Liberty County road bonds.
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
         15       motion?
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         17            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
         18       second?
         19            No second.
         20            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I second.
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         22       discussion?
         23            Passes unanimously.
         24            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 3 is adoption of
         25       resolutions authorizing the issuance of bonds
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       for multifamily housing projects set forth in
          2       Items (A) -- 3 (A) through 3 (D).
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
          4       motion?
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval with a
          6       question.
          7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Is it my
          9       understanding that this will be our swan song
         10       on -- on some of the Housing Finance Agency
         11       issues?
         12            MR. WATKINS:  That is correct.
         13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  With the change in
         14       legislation.
         15            MR. WATKINS:  That's correct.
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And I know, since
         17       it's no longer under the purview of the Cabinet,
         18       I probably speak for more than just myself.
         19       It's our real hope that that issue of
         20       competitive bonds -- and I am pleased to see
         21       that a couple of these are competitively bid --
         22       will continue.  I think it serves the best
         23       interest of all when and wherever that can
         24       occur.
         25            I think we've made a lot of progress on
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       that issue, just over the last couple of years,
          2       and know the Governor feels strongly about it as
          3       well.  So --
          4            Thank you, General.
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.  Is
          6       there a second?
          7            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          9       discussion?
         10            Any objections?
         11            Passes.
         12            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 4 is a report of
         13       award of the sale of 300 million dollars for the
         14       Preservation 2000 program.  The bonds were sold
         15       at competitive sale, and awarded to the low
         16       bidder at a true interest cost rate of
         17       5.377 percent.
         18            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         19            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         21       discussion?  Objection?
         22            Passes.
         23            MR. WATKINS:  Thank you.
         24            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Thank you.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
          2       concluded.)
          3                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Department
          2       of Law Enforcement.
          3            MR. MOORE:  Item 1 is the minutes of the
          4       February 25, '97, Cabinet meeting.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes.
          6            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
          7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          8       discussion?
          9            Objection?
         10            Passes.
         11            MR. MOORE:  Item 2 is the quarterly report
         12       for January through March of '97 for the
         13       Department.
         14            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         15            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         17       discussion?
         18            Any objection?
         19            Passes.
         20            MR. MOORE:  Item 3 is the Auditor General's
         21       Performance Audit on the Department of Law
         22       Enforcement for calendar year 1995, complete
         23       with our reply and responses to the findings.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval with a
         25       comment, Mr. Chair.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            TREASURER NELSON:  And I second.
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I just notice,
          4       Commissioner, that on Item 3, number 1, the
          5       arrest information from local authorities is not
          6       always received or processed in a timely
          7       manner.  Just know that you and I have been
          8       working carefully together on a like problem.
          9            And we face the same thing in education as
         10       you all face in law enforcement, and that's
         11       trying as best we can to acquire the best
         12       statistics and the best reporting possible.
         13            And you were instrumental in helping us
         14       pass a piece of legislation this year regarding
         15       law enforcement involvement with felonious acts
         16       on school campuses.  And we appreciate that.
         17            I don't think that piece of legislation
         18       would have passed without your support and that
         19       of your law enforcement folks throughout the
         20       state.  And we deeply appreciate that.
         21            MR. MOORE:  Thank you for those comments.
         22       It's, indeed, in the best interest of all of us
         23       to get that data.  But I -- you recognize, as we
         24       do, that local police, and in the case with us,
         25       they're busy responding to calls for service to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       people that are in need of their services.  And
          2       oftentimes, it's difficult for them to do things
          3       the way we might envision that it should be done
          4       up here in -- in this environment.
          5            So I commend them for what they do do.
          6       We're constantly working to reengineer that
          7       process to lighten that load on those local
          8       law enforcement agencies --
          9            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yeah.
         10            MR. MOORE:  -- and let them be out there to
         11       serve the public.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  As are we constantly
         13       trying to streamline the process.  Because the
         14       people at the local level, I think, also
         15       understand the importance of acquiring that
         16       information so we can find out what's working
         17       and where, and share that information.
         18            And the better the information, the better
         19       the opportunity that we provide.  And it is
         20       difficult to try to get as accurate as
         21       information as possible.  And we sure appreciate
         22       your help, and know we share a common problem in
         23       that regard.
         24            MR. MOORE:  Thank you, sir.
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thanks, General.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any further
          2       discussion?
          3            Any objection?
          4            Passes.
          5            MR. MOORE:  Item 4 is consistent with our
          6       administrative rules in the Department of Law
          7       Enforcement.  Any consulting contract we have
          8       that's over $25,000, we bring it down here for
          9       full disclosure and public discussion before we
         10       award that consulting contract.  That has served
         11       us well over the years.
         12            This contract here is pursuant to specific
         13       language in the appropriation bill for the
         14       current fiscal year that directs our Criminal
         15       Justice Standards and Training Commission to
         16       compare and evaluate Florida's methods and
         17       content of training police officers and
         18       correctional officers in our state to other

         19       states.
         20            We have got a contract in hand now.  The
         21       amount is $127,000.  The maximum we had was
         22       150,000.
         23            I would move -- or suggest -- recommend
         24       approval of that item, Mr. Attorney General.
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
          2       second?
          3            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          5       discussion?
          6            Any objection?
          7            Passes.
          8            MR. MOORE:  Thank you, sir.
          9            (The Department of Law Enforcement Agenda
         10       was concluded.)
         11                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
          2       Administration Commission.
          3            Items 1 to 6 will be deferred due to the
          4       Governor's absence until May 28th.
          5            Item number 7.
          6            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 7, request
          7       authorization to accept the Department of
          8       Community Affairs' request, and authorize the
          9       Secretary of the Commission to publish a Notice
         10       of Withdrawal of the proposed Rule 28-27.016 in
         11       the Florida Administrative Weekly.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the item.
         13            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         15       discussion?
         16            Any objection?
         17            Passes unanimously.
         18            (The Administration Commission Agenda was
         19       concluded.)
         20                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Land and
          2       Water Adjudicatory Commission.
          3            DR. BRADLEY:  There's nothing --
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  There's
          5       any -- are there any comments on this?  Because
          6       if we have comments, we'll have to bring it up
          7       next week.
          8            No comments?  Then it'll be passed.
          9            (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
         10       Commission Agenda was concluded.)
         11                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Board of
          2       Trustees.
          3            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 1, minutes.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
          6       second?
          7            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          9       discussion?
         10            Any objection?
         11            Passes.
         12            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 2, three option
         13       agreements for the Wekiva-Ocala CARL project.
         14            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
         15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         17       discussion?
         18            Any objections?
         19            Passes.
         20            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 3 is an option
         21       agreement for the Archie Carr CARL project.
         22            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval --
         24       second.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       discussion?
          2            Any objection?
          3            Passes.
          4            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 4 is a purchase
          5       agreement for Belle Meade CARL project and a
          6       waiver of survey.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          8            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         10       discussion?
         11            Any objection?
         12            Passes.
         13            MS. WETHERELL:  Substitute Item 5 is a
         14       purchase agreement, Lake Wales Ridge CARL
         15       project, a waiver of marketability, and a waiver
         16       of survey.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         20       discussion?
         21            Any objection?
         22            Passes.
         23            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 6 is a leasehold
         24       encumbrance and a delegation of authority.
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          3       discussion?
          4            Any objection?
          5            Passes.
          6            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 7, we're recommending
          7       deferral.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move it.
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there a
         10       second on deferral?
         11            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
         12            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         13       objection?
         14            Would that be to a certain date, or just --
         15       want to just defer it indefinitely?
         16            MS. WETHERELL:  That's a good question.
         17            Next meeting?
         18            Till the next meeting.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
         20       May 28th.
         21            MS. WETHERELL:  Uh-hum.
         22            Substitute Item 8 requires five votes, so
         23       we're recommending deferral.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the deferral.
         25            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Would that
          2       be until the 28th also?
          3            MS. WETHERELL:  Yes.
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
          5            MS. WETHERELL:  Thank you very much.
          6            (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
          7       Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
          8                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
          2       Marine Fisheries Commission.
          3            DR. NELSON:  Good morning.
          4            The first Item A on the agenda is an
          5       amendment to the bay scallop management plan.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move it.
          7            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
          9       discussion?
         10            Any objection?
         11            Passes.
         12            DR. NELSON:  And the second item, Item B,
         13       are the -- is the rule which will implement in
         14       State waters the special protection areas --
         15       preservation areas in the reserve proposed and
         16       the management plan for the Florida Keys Marine
         17       Sanctuary.
         18            We have two individuals who'd like to
         19       address the rule.  They both indicated it'd take
         20       them about -- perhaps 3 minutes apiece.
         21            Additionally, we did receive, and I believe
         22       your offices received, a letter from the
         23       Conch Coalition indicating they couldn't be
         24       here, but they asked that I express their
         25       sentiments, which are that they don't like the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       Sanctuary.  And I've done that.
          2            So the first speaker we have is
          3       Mr. H.P. Pontin.
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Welcome,
          5       sir.
          6            Please state your name for the record.
          7            MR. PONTIN:  For the record, my name is
          8       H.T. Pontin.  I have made my home in the
          9       Florida Keys for over 35 years.
         10            I've made my living all on the water my
         11       entire life and only wish to preserve everyone's
         12       right to navigate.  If Secretary Mortham had
         13       answered my letter of April 10th, it could have
         14       saved me a trip up here today.
         15            Because last Saturday in the local
         16       newspaper, I read there would be a meeting today
         17       to consider sanctuary zoning rules and
         18       boundaries in State waters.
         19            Mr. Irby of the Department of Environmental
         20       Protection said he expected no problem, since no
         21       one from the Keys was here to bring it up at the
         22       Cabinet aides meetings.
         23            I know of no one in the Keys that was aware
         24       the aides were discussing this issue.
         25            The latest letter to me from the Governor
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION

                                   May 13, 1997
          1       regarding Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary
          2       said, quote:  It is within the authority of the
          3       Governor and Cabinet to make decisions and enter
          4       into agreements in the public interest regarding
          5       the management of State lands, and sovereign
          6       waters.
          7            The only waters of the state and the
          8       Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary are
          9       canals.  When Florida became a state in 1845, it
         10       was given the sovereign submerged land by the
         11       right of statehood, but not the full navigable
         12       waters of the United States over it.
         13            On April 7th, I wrote Secretary of State
         14       asking for clarification and ruling on the

         15       Governor's sovereign waters.
         16            On April 8th, Paul Mitchell called and told
         17       me -- and said a clerk had made a mistake of
         18       using the word sovereign.
         19            Mr. Mitchell had already been advised of
         20       that Federal Government -- that the Federal
         21       Government is trying to take my right to
         22       navigate away in the Florida Marine National
         23       Sanctuary.
         24            Also said that the State would wait for the
         25       Federal judge's decision on my case before doing
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       anything.
          2            Florida sovereign submerged land,
          3       Chapter 18-21.001(3), includes this
          4       qualification:  So the public may continue to
          5       enjoy traditional uses, including, but not
          6       limited to, navigation, fishing, and swimming.
          7            When the State gave management of the State
          8       sovereign submerged land to Federal agencies,
          9       they expanded their authority to attempt to take
         10       the right to navigate on Federal navigable
         11       waters of the United States away from the
         12       public.
         13            Up until now, the State has done nothing to
         14       become an active partner with NOAA, even though
         15       the State voted to be partners with NOAA.
         16            While, you, Cabinet members, still have
         17       control of State sovereign submerged land, I'm
         18       asking you to withdraw the sovereign submerged
         19       land from the Florida Keys National Marine
         20       Sanctuary, thereby protecting the State from the
         21       illegal action of the Federal government upon
         22       citizens of Florida.
         23            At least postpone this bill, as it will
         24       make you an active partner in this illegal
         25       action.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            Thank you.
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Is there any
          3       questions?
          4            DR. NELSON:  The second speaker is
          5       Mr. Bob Harris.
          6            MS. HARRIS:  Attorney General, members of
          7       the Cabinet, my name is Bob Harris.  I represent
          8       the Professional Association of Diving
          9       Instructors.
         10            We have worked very, very closely with
         11       Dr. Nelson and the Marine Fisheries Commission
         12       on this proposed rule, and we're here today just
         13       on behalf of the diving community to ask you to
         14       support and approve the rule, as it was amended
         15       at the Commission's meeting on April 11th.
         16            We ask you to please support the rule.
         17            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Thank you.
         18            Any questions?
         19            Do I hear a motion?
         20            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any
         23       discussion?
         24            Any objection?
         25            Passes.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            DR. NELSON:  Thank you, sir.
          2            (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was
          3       concluded.)
          4                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  State Board
          2       of Education.
          3            DR. BEDFORD:  Commissioner Brogan, members
          4       of the State Board of Education, good morning.
          5            Item 1, minutes of the meeting held
          6       March 25th, 1997.
          7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I have a motion.
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And a second.
         12            Any discussion?
         13            Without objection.
         14            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 2, quarterly reports,
         15       January 1 through January 31st, 1997.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  A motion.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And a second.
         20            Discussion?
         21            Without objection.
         22            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 3 is an appeal of a
         23       charter school denial.  I would like to read
         24       into the record the following statement:
         25            The State Board of Education will now
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       consider an appeal of a denial of a charter
          2       school application pursuant to Chapter 96-186,
          3       Laws of Florida.
          4            Let me take a moment to explain the
          5       process.
          6            As prescribed by law, Florida School Boards
          7       are given authority to grant approval to
          8       applicants who wish to operate charter schools
          9       within a district.  A further provision of the
         10       law allows an applicant who has been denied a
         11       charter, the right to appeal the School Board's
         12       decision to the State Board of Education.
         13            Based on the written record and oral
         14       argument presented at the meeting, the
         15       State Board must vote to recommend acceptance or
         16       rejection of the appeal to the School Board.
         17            The vote requires a simple majority of the
         18       members; and by law, is not subject to the
         19       provisions of the Administrative Procedures Act.
         20            The rule governing the appeal process was
         21       unanimously adopted by the Cabinet sitting as
         22       the State Board of Education on December 10th,
         23       1996.
         24            It very clearly states how this hearing
         25       must proceed, and it specifies the following
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       limitations, which must be respected by the
          2       applicant, the district School Board, and their
          3       representatives:
          4            One, the Notice of Appeal must be based on
          5       the errors the applicant charges the
          6       School Board made in its decision to deny the
          7       charter; two, the written arguments submitted by
          8       the applicant to the State Board is limited to
          9       discussion of those errors; three, the record of
         10       this proceeding is limited to the written
         11       arguments, the charter school application
         12       itself, and transcripts of meetings before the
         13       district School Board.
         14            At this hearing, representatives of each
         15       party may give oral argument.  Oral argument is
         16       limited to a summary of the written arguments
         17       previously submitted to the State Board.
         18            Each side is allocated 10 minutes to
         19       present its summary.  After the summaries are
         20       presented, a vote will be taken, and a written
         21       recommendation of the vote will be returned to
         22       the district School Board.
         23            At this time, let me present Lisa Arndt,
         24       representing the Foundation School and Central
         25       Florida Human Services.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            Lisa.
          2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Welcome.
          3            MS. ARNDT:  Thank you.
          4            When we initially spoke before the
          5       Polk County School Board on March 11th, they had
          6       some concerns stemming from the School Board
          7       staff committee report they asked us to address
          8       and come back on March 31st.
          9            We addressed those issues, provided them
         10       with additional documentation, came back, and
         11       got the same vote that we had initially got on
         12       March 11th.
         13            We felt like the School Board's concerns
         14       stemmed directly from that committee's reports.
         15       The issues that the School Board brought up were
         16       almost mirrors of what the committee had brought
         17       up against our proposal.
         18            When we challenged the School Board
         19       committee staff over the concerns that they
         20       brought up, they stood up in the School Board
         21       meeting and said that they had made errors in
         22       the report that they had given to the
         23       School Board.
         24            One of the primary concerns that we know
         25       that the School Board members had was that the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       public schools should not be in the business of
          2       drug treatment.
          3            We understand their concerns.  We don't
          4       necessarily disagree with that.  However, public
          5       schools in Polk County already provide substance
          6       abuse services on a limited basis.
          7            We have the DARE program, we have a couple
          8       other select programs.  We also have the
          9       Mark Wilcox Center, which provides substance
         10       abuse assessment for students who have been
         11       either caught with drugs or alcohol, or high or
         12       intoxicated at schools.
         13            It's a part of the mitigation of the
         14       discipline is they have the opportunity to go to
         15       the Wilcox Center and be assessed.
         16            The problem for Polk County students comes
         17       in in that once they've been assessed, parents
         18       are handed a recommendation and told to go out
         19       and find treatment.
         20            When we talked to School Board staff before
         21       we ever submitted our proposal, we found out
         22       that multiple parents take their children to the
         23       treatment that the Wilcox Center recommends, and
         24       then turn around and come back to the
         25       School Board with seventy and eighty thousand
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       dollar bills, expecting the School Board to pay
          2       them.  And they -- at that time, they have to
          3       explain to parents that, well, these were
          4       recommendations.
          5            Our school, which targeted 150 middle and
          6       high school students, would provide that
          7       treatment for all those students who don't have
          8       access to that.
          9            One of the school's concerns -- or one of
         10       the School Board's concerns was that we couldn't
         11       provide quality education and treatment with the
         12       same FEFP money that the School Board has a hard
         13       time providing just education with.
         14            And we understand their concerns.  However,
         15       we gave them a detailed budget explaining that
         16       our intent to do that was strictly to hire --
         17       in lieu of a teacher aide, we would hire one
         18       teacher, one clinician per 25 students.  That
         19       would give us the capabilities of providing that
         20       treatment as an addendum.
         21            Our academic component we felt was really
         22       strong.  We have former interim superintendent,
         23       John Kersey on our organizing board who has gone
         24       over all the academic components with us, gone
         25       over the regulations.  So we felt like we were
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       really strong in that area.
          2            We also felt like we have less overhead
          3       than the public school system, and, therefore,
          4       we could operate on less money.
          5            Coupled with the fact that we couldn't
          6       provide those services was their concern that we
          7       couldn't get 150 students.  We took that figure
          8       from the School Board's own discipline referral
          9       records.  We took all the records from the
         10       students who were suspended or expelled for any
         11       kind of substance abuse involvement.  And we
         12       took referrals to local treatment agencies, and
         13       several other factors, and kind of combined them
         14       together to come up with a rough estimate.
         15            In just the last school year, over
         16       200 students in the age that we targeted were
         17       suspended or expelled for substance abuse
         18       issues.
         19            So we felt like, you know, that our target
         20       of 150 students was more than adequate.
         21            We also felt that we could be a supplement
         22       to the Wilcox Center, and that we could work
         23       together.  We took the referrals -- we talked to
         24       the people at the Wilcox Center and took the
         25       referrals that they had gotten, and felt like
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       more than 150 students would get in line to come
          2       to the school.
          3            We get -- as a community treatment agency,
          4       we get calls from parents every day who can't
          5       afford the seven, eight hundred dollars a day
          6       that private treatment costs.
          7            The other primary concern of the
          8       School Board was that we couldn't provide --
          9       because we did target high school students, that
         10       we couldn't provide the instructional needs of
         11       those students.
         12            When we questioned exactly what concerns
         13       they had, Robert Helmick, who's the head of
         14       instructional services, did inform the
         15       School Board that we would be considered an
         16       alternative education site, and, therefore, that
         17       we had a little bit more flexibility in the
         18       academic component.
         19            We did notify the School Board that we do
         20       have a comprehensive computer system so that if
         21       we had a student who had a specific need, that
         22       we could use computer assisted learning in order
         23       to meet each individual student's needs.
         24            They also expressed concern over our
         25       facility, that our facility would not

                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       accommodate a high school curriculum.  We're
          2       unclear how they came to that, because no one
          3       ever looked at our facility.  No one from the
          4       committee or the School Board has ever set foot
          5       in our building.
          6            We also had contacted several realtors,
          7       which we informed the School Board, looking at
          8       the possibility of leasing property if they did
          9       not care for our facility.
         10            So we felt like we had really covered all
         11       the issues with them.  And we still came back
         12       with the same vote.
         13            Since that meeting, since the March 31st
         14       meeting, we've talked to several of the
         15       School Board members, in particular,
         16       Randy Wilkinson, who stated to our CEO, that he
         17       was glad to hear that we were appealing, that he
         18       had gotten additional information after the
         19       meeting that made him open to reconsidering it.
         20            We also have provided some additional
         21       information to School Board member Jim Miles,
         22       who had a concern over the School Board's doing
         23       medical treatment.
         24            We gave him an outline of what substance
         25       abuse treatment is, and we feel like quelled his
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       concern that we are not going to be doing
          2       medical treatment, per se, that substance abuse
          3       treatment is not medical treatment.  It's a
          4       different type of treatment.
          5            So we feel like at least those two
          6       School Board members' concerns have been
          7       addressed.  We did, however, feel like we had to
          8       go forward with the appeal process in order to
          9       provide the service for the students of
         10       Polk County.
         11            So thank you.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Any questions?
         13            Thank you, Ms. Arndt.
         14            DR. BEDFORD:  At this time, we have
         15       Steven Selph, the attorney for the
         16       Polk County School Board.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Good morning.
         18            MR. SELPH:  Good morning, members of the
         19       State Board of Education.  My name is
         20       Steve Selph.  I'm the attorney for the
         21       School Board of Polk County.
         22            I wanted to just point out a couple of
         23       preliminary matters as we get into discussing
         24       the application at hand, and that is to say that
         25       I'm pleased to be able to tell you, if you don't
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       already realize this, that before the ink was
          2       dry on the charter school statute last summer,
          3       we had one charter school application, which we
          4       hurriedly processed, our School Board approved
          5       that application, and approved a charter at a
          6       public hearing that all happened at one time to
          7       try to get that school started by the beginning
          8       of our school year, which we were able to do.
          9       So we had one of the first charter schools in
         10       Florida, which is still in operation.
         11            This past fall, we adopted charter school
         12       policies so that we could set up time lines and
         13       procedures for dealing with applications in the
         14       future, and received six applications this past
         15       winter.  Three of those applications were
         16       approved by the School Board, three were
         17       rejected.
         18            And, of course, one of those three that was
         19       rejected is the Foundation School's application
         20       that we're here to talk about today.
         21            I wanted to simply point that out so that
         22       there's no mistake made that -- concerning the
         23       School Board's desire to cooperate and to try to
         24       have charter schools.  We are not hostile to
         25       having charter schools.  We have four out of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       seven right now that have applied that have been
          2       approved.
          3            With regard to this particular application,
          4       there were some comments made by the charter
          5       school application review committee.  And when
          6       they conducted their own internal meeting, and
          7       also when they presented their recommendations
          8       to the School Board on March 11, some of those
          9       comments I found questionable and -- and advised
         10       the Board that those were -- some of those
         11       issues that were raised were not issues that
         12       related to this particular application, but were
         13       simply concerns that they had about how they go
         14       about funding and sponsoring, if you will, a
         15       charter school, which are -- which are issues
         16       that deal with every charter school that comes
         17       along, and it would not necessarily be issues
         18       that would cause the School Board to want to
         19       reject this particular application.
         20            So I think we cleared the air on those
         21       things at the charter -- at the School Board's
         22       meeting when it considered this application on
         23       March 11.  And in spite of that though, because
         24       of some concerns that the School Board members
         25       had, they voted 4 to 1 to reject the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       application.
          2            The concerns I think that were raised at
          3       that time dealt with not only the question of
          4       using these education funds to try to carry out
          5       middle school and high school curriculum, and
          6       present that curriculum to a wide variety of
          7       students, which we were uncertain as to what
          8       that student population would be, but also our
          9       concern about trying to take a portion of that
         10       money and use it to pay counselors to do drug
         11       treatment and counseling in conjunction with the
         12       educational needs of those students.
         13            It was mentioned at the March 11 meeting
         14       that, well, they probably would try to focus on
         15       middle school aged students, rather than
         16       high school.  And hopefully they would be
         17       considered a dropout prevention program, or an
         18       alternative education program that would allow
         19       teachers to teach out of field so they would not
         20       have to try to have teachers instructing
         21       high school students on their various subjects
         22       that they have to complete in order to meet
         23       their graduation requirements, and have those
         24       teachers teaching in field, which is required by
         25       State Board of Education rules, and by the State
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       law, unless teachers -- in some cases, teachers
          2       are allowed to teach out of field temporarily.
          3            And in alternative ed sites, they can teach
          4       out of field all the time if we're unable to
          5       find teachers that -- to cover that wide variety
          6       of subject matter.
          7            But that was discussed on March 11.  When
          8       they came back for reconsideration, our Board
          9       didn't -- was willing to hear them again on
         10       March 31 at a subsequent meeting.
         11            At that time, there really was no specific
         12       information given as to what the student
         13       population might be anticipated to be.  And
         14       I think that's not any fault of the applicants.
         15       It's simply a -- it's simply the situation we
         16       have at hand here where, because charter schools
         17       are schools of choice, because parents are
         18       not -- we cannot require a student to attend a
         19       charter school, we can't be certain as to which
         20       students would apply to attend this school.  We
         21       may have a large number of high school aged
         22       students, may have a small number.
         23            Some of them may be planning to graduate --
         24       we hope they are -- and would need to take
         25       certain courses to fulfill their graduation
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       requirements.
          2            It's anticipated this school would operate
          3       for a full school year -- or have students in it
          4       for a full school year, and they would need to
          5       have meaningful classes while they're there, in
          6       addition to the drug treatment.
          7            Middle school aged students would give us a
          8       lot more flexibility.  And so that was what we
          9       were hoping we would hear from them.
         10            And, of course, in fairness to the
         11       applicant, they can't really predict what
         12       students they would have if they open it up to
         13       that age bracket.
         14            We do have the Mark Wilcox Center, that was
         15       mentioned, where students who are identified as
         16       possibly having a drug or alcohol problem are
         17       referred there for a short 10- to 15-day period
         18       to be assessed, to determine whether they need
         19       counseling or need some kind of treatment before
         20       they return to school or finish out their period
         21       of suspension.
         22            In some cases, they go to an alternative
         23       education site.  But in many cases, they return
         24       to school.
         25            And, yes, as Lisa pointed out, that is --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       what treatment they receive is largely dependent
          2       upon their parent's financial ability or what
          3       type of insurance coverage they might have.
          4            So I don't think anyone -- I don't think
          5       anyone disputes the fact that there's a need to
          6       try to provide this kind of service to
          7       students.  I believe our question is whether
          8       it's appropriate to do it through the mechanism
          9       of a charter school, rather than working out
         10       some other kind of arrangement with this
         11       organization, as we do with many other agencies
         12       in our school district.
         13            TREASURER NELSON:  On that point, let me
         14       ask a question.
         15            What would happen to these 200 students if
         16       the charter were denied?
         17            MR. SELPH:  The ones that go through the

         18       Mark Wilcox Center now or --
         19            TREASURER NELSON:  The ones that are slated
         20       to go into the charter school.  What would
         21       happen to them?
         22            MR. SELPH:  Well, they're slated there
         23       simply based on a -- based on a prediction that
         24       the charter school applicant has made, based on
         25       discipline referrals, and based on the number of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       students who go through the Mark Wilcox Center
          2       during a given year.
          3            Those students would be -- if they had this
          4       charter school, they might choose to apply to go
          5       there, they might not.  We don't know what they
          6       would do.  Many cases, parents are into denial
          7       and don't want to admit their child has a
          8       problem.
          9            We could not force the child to go there if
         10       that school was there.  But if it was not there,
         11       they would either return to the regular school
         12       and seek other types of outpatient treatment, if
         13       it was needed; or they might go into -- as an
         14       inpatient to some facility temporarily if they
         15       had the funds or the insurance coverage to
         16       provide for it.
         17            That's pretty much the extent of what would
         18       be available to them, as I understand it now,
         19       with what government offers, or fails to offer,
         20       in that area.
         21            TREASURER NELSON:  Now, you said that your
         22       School Board's major objection is that it's more
         23       or less a philosophical difference that -- that
         24       a charter school in part -- an extension of the
         25       the school system shouldn't be in the business
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       of having to do with drug rehabilitation.
          2            Is that basically your objection?
          3            MR. SELPH:  I believe that's the way it was
          4       expressed by the -- one Board member's comments
          5       that preceded the motion in the 4 to 1 vote to
          6       deny the application, yes, sir.
          7            Because of all the other issues that deal
          8       with family matters and deal with societal
          9       problems that the schools are now required to
         10       take on, I think it was felt that that was just
         11       one more that we don't really have the resources
         12       to deal with.  If it's going to be tried -- if
         13       those resources are going to be divided between
         14       education and drug counseling.
         15            TREASURER NELSON:  So basically, in our
         16       role here as a quasi-judicial appellate panel,
         17       either recommending to reject or accept the
         18       School Board's decision, we should rule -- or we
         19       should make our decision on the basis of the
         20       reason that they rejected the charter.
         21            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yes, sir.
         22            TREASURER NELSON:  And that is whether or
         23       not we think it is appropriate for students to
         24       have an alternative to a normal classroom that
         25       would -- in addition to their academics, would,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       in fact, focus on the problem of drug rehab and
          2       correlary activities.  That's basically it.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  That's the crux.
          4       Yes, sir.
          5            Any other questions from the members?
          6            Did you have any other comments,
          7       Counselor?
          8            MR. SELPH:  Let me just check my notes
          9       here, since I got off on a tangent here a little
         10       bit and tried to answer those questions, which
         11       were good questions, by the way.
         12            I think I pretty well covered the points I
         13       wanted to make.
         14            Here again, I think I should point out that
         15       our Board does enter into partnerships with
         16       other agencies, and we're not -- I don't think
         17       it would be fair to say that they're adverse to
         18       trying to deal with this drug problem, as
         19       they've tried to do in some -- to a limited
         20       degree already.
         21            I think it's just a concern about whether
         22       the charter school approach is the way to deal
         23       with this, as opposed to allowing the parties to
         24       work out some other arrangement, perhaps where
         25       the school district could require students to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       attend a facility like this, as opposed to being
          2       a choice situation as a charter school, with the
          3       limited number of charter schools that we can
          4       sponsor.
          5            I appreciate your attention.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thank you, Counselor,
          7       very much.
          8            I'll kick off some additional discussion
          9       with, first of all, also commending
         10       Polk County.  Polk County is one of the six
         11       original, I suppose, charter charter districts
         12       that we have in the state of Florida.  And they
         13       have consistently worked well, with not only
         14       that school that's up and running, as I visited,
         15       but also those who have applied.  I think
         16       they've been very professional, and I think
         17       they've handled themselves well, not only in the
         18       approvals, but also in the denials.
         19            And I guess I would characterize this
         20       particular denial as anything less than
         21       hostile.  I think both parties have been very
         22       professional in trying to work through this.
         23       And the appellate process is not always
         24       hostile.  It's one of just trying to make your
         25       case to a higher authority.
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            I would also say that I guess I'm second to
          2       none in terms of my position on reading,
          3       writing, and arithmetic being at the center of
          4       everything that we do.
          5            But I also know that if we have students
          6       within our schools that themselves are at risk,
          7       and by virtue of that fact, not able to receive
          8       a quality educational experience because of some
          9       condition, malady, or situation in their life;
         10       and also by virtue of that fact, potentially
         11       robbing other youngsters of their ability to
         12       learn in a safe and disciplined environment, one
         13       of the things the charter schools have been able
         14       to offer, nationwide, is an avenue for
         15       innovative and creative ways to reach out to
         16       such students.
         17            And as we look at the statistics
         18       nationally, and even right here in the state, we
         19       find that over 50 percent of the charter schools
         20       nationally, and here in this state, are set up
         21       to serve very special populations of students
         22       with very special needs.
         23            And I think in this particular case, we
         24       have a charter school applicant who appears to
         25       have a good proposal, recognizing that nothing
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       is a guarantee, and recognizing that a student
          2       population, other than that of the traditional
          3       public education system, is never a guaranteed
          4       commodity whenever you're dealing with a school
          5       of choice, therein lies one of the great risks,
          6       and yet one of the great beauties of schools of
          7       choice, is that they are subject to being
          8       subject themselves to the ebb and flow of
          9       choices of parents.
         10            But I think that's also one of the
         11       strengths of school choice, is that it is market
         12       driven.  And I would suggest in this particular
         13       case, if not enough parents take advantage of
         14       this particular situation for students, that
         15       ultimately, the school and the district would
         16       have a tough decision to make.
         17            But also recognize, having been a
         18       superintendent and a principal and a teacher,
         19       that there are large numbers of parents that
         20       exist out there who are searching for help for
         21       their child, that child being in the throws of a
         22       drug problem, or on the precipice of a drug
         23       problem.  And I know the cost that is engaged in
         24       with parents in that situation through private
         25       providers.  And -- who do a wonderful job, but
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       also recognize that many parents are simply not
          2       able to acquire that kind of assistance for the
          3       good old-fashioned reason that they simply can't
          4       afford it.
          5            And so the Commissioner's question was a
          6       good one, and I heard it loud and clear.  What
          7       would happen to those youngsters if, in fact,
          8       they didn't have this opportunity.  And the
          9       counsel was right, some of those youngsters
         10       would seek and gain help elsewhere.
         11            But I also believe that Polk is no
         12       different than any other district in that some
         13       of those students, whatever some is, would not
         14       have the opportunity to avail themself of help.
         15       And they would return to their traditional
         16       high school or their traditional middle school.
         17       And they would either fall further and further
         18       through the cracks, personally; and/or take with
         19       them a significant number of other students
         20       based on the problems as they manifest
         21       themselves in the classroom.
         22            So I -- while I hear also loud and clearly

         23       the concerns of Polk County -- again,
         24       Polk County's done a great job with working
         25       through this process.  I also believe that there
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       are no guarantees, and I think that the
          2       application that the school has put forward is
          3       reasonable, rational, and doable.
          4            And also recognize that in
          5       public education, albeit through programs like
          6       homebound for students who are ill and spend
          7       prolonged periods of time in their own homes
          8       learning through the public education system so
          9       that they can deal with not only a medical
         10       malady, but also the educational need, programs
         11       such as alternative education, that do give us
         12       greater flexibility in certification, greater
         13       flexibility in curriculum, the opportunity to
         14       serve the needs of students where we find them
         15       through computer-based programs, as were
         16       mentioned before, or individualized instruction,
         17       or small group settings.  I think there are a
         18       variety of ways to reach out to youngsters.
         19            I am not in a position to make a motion,
         20       because I'm chairing this portion of the
         21       meeting.  But I, for one, have -- at least at
         22       this stage of the game, again, applaud
         23       Polk County, but suggest that my concerns at
         24       this point have been satisfied.
         25            Other comments?  Questions?
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            Commissioner.
          2            TREASURER NELSON:  Well, I'll take a que.
          3       And I'll move to reject the School Board's
          4       decision, and to remand it to the School Board
          5       for further consideration on the basis of just
          6       what you said, and what the implication of my
          7       question was, that we know that charter schools
          8       are -- by law are held strictly accountable for
          9       their academic results.  So you've got that
         10       control in the system.
         11            And that part of the purpose of charter
         12       schools is to allow site-based decision making
         13       and to get teachers and principals responding
         14       immediately to a specific need.  And obviously
         15       this is a need.
         16            And it seems like to me that if you are
         17       satisfied with school -- the public school
         18       systems as they are, you would want to vote no
         19       on my motion.
         20            But if you think that there's a place for
         21       innovation and creativity and experimentation,
         22       then I would commend that you vote for the
         23       motion.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Crossing eight time
         25       zones hasn't hurt you at all, Commissioner.
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            Any other comments?  I have a motion.
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  A motion and a
          4       second.
          5            Further discussion?
          6            Hearing none.
          7            Without objection, motion passes.
          8            We will at this point recommend back to the
          9       Polk County School District further
         10       consideration of this particular charter.  And
         11       again, thank both sides for being so
         12       professional in their delivery and their
         13       deliberation.
         14            And lastly, would point out that on your
         15       place, we have provided for you an update from
         16       Tracey Bailey, who is heading up our School
         17       Choice Office, on the status of charter schools
         18       in the state of Florida today.
         19            And hopefully, members of the State Board,
         20       you'll find that to be as pleasing as we do,
         21       recognizing that we are now, I think, second in
         22       the country in terms of new charter school
         23       start-ups in the length of time.
         24            So the State has much to be proud of.  And,
         25       again, we think all of public education will
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       ultimately benefit as charter schools grow and
          2       prosper.  And we thank you for your regular
          3       support of the concept.
          4            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thank you,
          6       Mr. Bedford.
          7            I turn the meeting back to you, General.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any further
          9       comments from any of the Cabinet members?
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  We would invite all
         11       of you at 1:00 o'clock out to do what you like
         12       to do best, and that is wave good-bye to me
         13       as -- as we begin the Sunshine Tour today.
         14            We are going to -- after the Habitat for
         15       Humanity visit, we're going to be off to
         16       Pensacola to visit our first site and first
         17       Teacher of the Year.
         18            We will then go to Jacksonville;
         19       Vero Beach; Arcadia; Stuart, Martin County; and
         20       on to Dade County.  And end up next week in
         21       Orlando for the Statewide Teacher of the Year

         22       function where we will name Florida's 1997-98
         23       Teacher of the Year, and five tremendous
         24       finalists.  And we know any of them would make a
         25       great Teacher of the Year.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1            So we're excited about it.  We think the
          2       tour's going to raise the level of public
          3       awareness regarding the importance of
          4       public education.  We want to keep it in the
          5       public eye.
          6            We think the tour will raise the visibility
          7       of the new Sunshine State Standards, and the
          8       importance of our push for excellence.  And we
          9       think the tour will also give our teachers
         10       greater visibility in the importance of
         11       excellence in teaching.
         12            So we started this morning at
         13       Leon County -- or Leon High School, and
         14       celebrated their 60th anniversary as a place to
         15       start on the bus tour.  And they were wonderful
         16       to us, and excited about the trip.
         17            So we hope you'll come out and join us at
         18       1:00 o'clock, and anywhere else on the tour that
         19       you care to be.
         20            Thank you.
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Any further
         22       short comments?
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I just saw how much
         24       time we still had to kill, General.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Do I hear a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                   May 13, 1997
          1       motion to rise?
          2            TREASURER NELSON:  So move.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move -- second.
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
          5            (The State Board of Education Agenda was
          6       concluded.)
          7                             *
          8            (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
          9       10:40 a.m.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                   May 13, 1997
          1                  CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
          4   STATE OF FLORIDA:
          5   COUNTY OF LEON:
          6            I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
          7   the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
          8   time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
          9   notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
         10   pages numbered 1 through 58 are a true and correct
         11   record of the aforesaid proceedings.
         12            I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
         13   employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
         14   nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
         15   or financially interested in the foregoing action.
         16            DATED THIS 22ND day of MAY, 1997.
         19                           LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
                                      100 Salem Court
         20                           Tallahassee, Florida 32301
                                      (904) 878-2221
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.