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          2                  T H E   C A B I N E T
          3             S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
          6               STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
          7                DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
                                AND MOTOR VEHICLES
          8               DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
          9              STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
         10                  FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
                             ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
         11                  TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
                              IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
         13            The above agencies came to be heard before
              THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
         14   presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
              The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
         15   February 25, 1997, commencing at approximately
              9:44 a.m.
         18                       Reported by:
         19                    LAURIE L. GILBERT
                        Registered Professional Reporter
         20                 Certified Court Reporter
                            Notary Public in and for
         21              the State of Florida at Large
                                100 SALEM COURT
         24                TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
          1   APPEARANCES:
          2            Representing the Florida Cabinet:
          3            LAWTON CHILES
                       BOB CRAWFORD
          5            Commissioner of Agriculture
          6            BOB MILLIGAN
                       SANDRA B. MORTHAM
          8            Secretary of State
          9            BOB BUTTERWORTH
                       Attorney General
                       BILL NELSON
         11            Treasurer
         12            FRANK T. BROGAN
                       Commissioner of Education
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1                        I N D E X
          2   ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
              (Presented by Martin Young,
          4       Secretary)
          5    1                  Approved                 82
               2                  Approved                 82
          7   (Presented by Tom Herndon,
                  Executive Director)
               1                  Approved                 83
          9    2                  Approved                 83
               3                  Approved                 83
         11   (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
               1                  Approved                 85
         13    2                  Approved                 85
               3                  Approved                 94
         14    4 a) through 4 f)  Approved                 86
              (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
         16       Executive Director)
         17    1                  Approved                 95
               2                  Approved                131
         18    3                  Approved                131
              (Presented by James T. Moore,
         20       Executive Director)
         21    1                  Approved                133
               2                  Approved                133
         22    3                  Approved                135
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1                         I N D E X
          3   (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
                  Deputy Commissioner)
               1                  Approved                 46
          5    2                  Approved                 46
               3                  Report                   46
          6    4                  Withdrawn                60
               5                  Good Cause Item           9
          8   (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
                  Deputy Commissioner)
               1                  Approved                 61
         10    2                  Approved                 81
              (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
         12       Secretary)
         13    1                  Approved                  6
               2                  Approved                  7
              (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
         16       Secretary)
         17    1                  Approved                  8
               2                  Deferred                  8
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1                         I N D E X
              BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
              TRUST FUND:
          4   (Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
                  Assistant Secretary)
               1                  Deferred                139
          6    2                  Approved                139
               3                  Approved                139
          7    4                  Approved                140
               5                  Approved                140
          8    6                  Approved                140
               7                  Approved                141
          9    8                  Approved                141
               9                  Denied                  156
         10   10                  Denied                  156
              Substitute 11       Deferred                170
         12            CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER            173
         13                           *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                February 25, 1997
          1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
          2            (The agenda items commenced at 10:03 a.m.)
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We're going to skip just
          4       a little bit around today, and take up the
          5       Administration Commission first, then Florida
          6       Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission, then
          7       we'll take State Board of Education, State Board
          8       of Career Education, then go back to our agenda.
          9            We have some people that were out of town,
         10       and we want to try to accommodate them.
         11            DR. BRADLEY:  On the
         12       Administration Commission.
         13            Item number 1 is recommend approval of the
         14       minutes of the meeting held February 11th, 1997.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Move it.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion and --
         17            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- second.
         19            Without objection, minutes are approved.
         20            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 2 is recommend
         21       approval of the transfer of general revenue
         22       appropriations in the Department of Education.
         23            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Without objection, that's approved.
          2            (The Administration Commission Agenda was
          3       concluded.)
          4                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Florida Land and Water
          2       Adjudicatory Commission.
          3            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 1 is request
          4       approval of the minutes of the January 28th,
          5       1997 --
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval --
          7            DR. BRADLEY:  -- Cabinet meeting.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- of the minutes.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, it's approved.
         11            DR. BRADLEY:  Then Item number 2 is request
         12       approval -- I mean, approval of a deferral of
         13       this -- of the matter involving the
         14       Franklin County Resort Village --
         15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move deferral,
         16       Governor --
         17            DR. BRADLEY:  -- to the March 11th
         18       Commission meeting.
         19            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And --
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded on a
         21       motion to defer.
         22            And without objection, that's granted.
         23            (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
         24       Commission Agenda was concluded.)
         25                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  We'll go now
          2       to the State Board of Education.
          3            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
          4            DR. BEDFORD:  Governor Chiles, members of
          5       the State Board of Education, good morning.
          6            With your permission, I'm also going to go
          7       out of order with my own agenda.
          8            We'd like to go to Item 5 first.  This is
          9       where we have a lot of speakers from out of
         10       town.
         11            Item 5 is the purchase of WXEL Television
         12       by Barry University.  It is brought before you
         13       today for your information.  The State Board of
         14       Education is the lessor in this potential
         15       transaction.
         16            We'd like to begin today with a short
         17       presentation by Mike Olenick, our
         18       General Counsel.
         19            MR. OLENICK:  Governor, members of the
         20       Cabinet, my name is Mike Olenick, and I am the
         21       attorney for the State Board of Education.
         22            I have received many comments, as has the
         23       Commissioner, from your aides, as well as many
         24       members of the Cabinet, over a proposed merger
         25       between South Florida Public Telecommunications,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       Inc., which is better known as WXEL; and
          2       Barry Telecommunications, which is a subsidiary
          3       of Barry University.
          4            Just very briefly, in 1989, there was a
          5       lease agreement between the State Board of
          6       Education as lessor, which is why you're even
          7       involved in this --
          8            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
          9            MR. OLENICK:  -- and South Florida Public
         10       Telecommunication, Inc.
         11            We, the State Board of Ed, leased a
         12       5 million dollar -- put 5 million dollars of the
         13       PECO money into a building which sits on WXEL --
         14       and I'll use WXEL, meaning South Florida
         15       Public -- South Florida Public
         16       Telecommunications, Inc., because it makes it
         17       easier.
         18            That land is owned by XEL, but the
         19       building, which was PECO funded, is owned by the
         20       State Board of Ed.  So there's a lease
         21       agreement.
         22            Subsequent to '89, there was another
         23       million dollars put in of PECO funds, totaling,
         24       since 1989, over 6 million dollars of public --
         25       public money into this -- into the building and
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       equipment.
          2            The lease language in the 1989 agreement
          3       requires that any assignee demonstrate that they
          4       are an educational or noncommercial broadcasting
          5       entity authorized by the State of Florida.  And
          6       we put WXEL --
          7            And I, by the way, have been working with
          8       the Attorney General's Office in this matter.
          9            A letter was sent on February 17th to
         10       WXEL's attorney informing them of that provision
         11       within the lease.
         12            We have received a myriad of documents from
         13       WXEL.  I want to indicate that both Barry and
         14       XEL have been extremely cooperative in working
         15       with us, but there is much documentation and
         16       much document review.
         17            The limited purpose, in my mind, of the
         18       Governor and Cabinet, or the State Board of
         19       Education, today is to get input from the
         20       various parties.  And I understand that there
         21       are a number of people who want to speak.
         22            And, in essence, to have a public forum for
         23       this matter since it is public money being
         24       transferred.
         25            The issue may -- and I emphasize may come
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       back before the State Board of Education.  But
          2       if it does, it would be for the sole purpose of
          3       determining whether or not there is the --
          4       whether or not the new entity, this Barry Tel.,
          5       is, in fact, an educational, noncommercial
          6       broadcasting entity.  But that'll be for a later
          7       date.
          8            So I think for today's purpose, if I can
          9       sort of frame it, it's public input, as well as
         10       any questions that you may have of me.  And
         11       also, Ms. CeCe Dykas is here with the
         12       Attorney General's Office.  And we can answer
         13       any questions.
         14            But with that, I'd turn it over to the
         15       people that want to speak.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Question?
         17            Yeah, hold on just a minute.
         18            MR. OLENICK:  Yes, sir.
         19            TREASURER NELSON:  Yeah.  Let me see if you
         20       can help me understand by framing some of the
         21       issues.
         22            Now, this station has been troubled for a
         23       few years; has it not?
         24            MR. OLENICK:  That's a fair statement.
         25            TREASURER NELSON:  And in the course of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       those troubled times, a sister station in Miami,
          2       Channel 2, the public television station there,
          3       has basically become the dominant station; is
          4       that a fair statement?
          5            MR. OLENICK:  I -- I'd go along with that,
          6       sir.  Yes.
          7            TREASURER NELSON:  Okay.  Now, in the
          8       course of these few years of trouble -- troubled
          9       times, has any of the equipment been upgraded?
         10            MR. OLENICK:  I'm not aware of that, sir.
         11       You'd have to ask someone from WXEL.  I would
         12       assume that there's been some upgradings, but I
         13       couldn't answer that.
         14            TREASURER NELSON:  Well, put another way,
         15       is it going to take six to ten million dollars
         16       to upgrade the technology of this station to get
         17       it where it could be competitive?
         18            MR. OLENICK:  My understanding that -- the
         19       president of Barry is here.  But my
         20       understanding, yes, sir, it would take millions
         21       more input for this station to be competitive,
         22       and to remain a community based station.  Yes.
         23            TREASURER NELSON:  Is it correct that the
         24       radio station -- it has a radio station.
         25            MR. OLENICK:  Yes.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            TREASURER NELSON:  And that license has
          2       value; does it not?
          3            MR. OLENICK:  Yes, sir.
          4            TREASURER NELSON:  And does that license --
          5       is that being sought by others as well?
          6            MR. OLENICK:  There's rumors to that
          7       effect.  But I -- my understanding is that the
          8       agreement contemplated with Barry would be
          9       one -- one agreement.  Not break them apart.
         10            TREASURER NELSON:  So we have a troubled
         11       station that has outdated equipment that's going
         12       to cost a lot, but does have a valuable radio
         13       license.
         14            MR. OLENICK:  Yes, sir.
         15            TREASURER NELSON:  Okay.  Thanks.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, if
         17       I could --
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- maybe
         20       just add something.  I think why we're here, to
         21       some extent, is because we have what
         22       Palm Beach County and the surrounding area
         23       believes to be a community asset where people in
         24       that community have been subject to fund drives
         25       to raise money to keep the radio station and TV
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       station working, just as they do here in
          2       Tallahassee, and every other Public Service TV
          3       station and radio station.
          4            Local people have given money.
          5            As well as the Florida Legislature, through
          6       the Board of Education.
          7            It appeared that this community asset
          8       was -- was, in essence, going to be either
          9       merged with, or sold to something -- to someone
         10       else.
         11            Whenever this occurs, a community, I think
         12       rightfully, starts wondering why is there such
         13       secrecy, how come we don't know about it?  How
         14       come the first day we find out about it is when
         15       it has already happened?
         16            And -- and then I think properly the public
         17       has to have a hearing to find out what has
         18       occurred.  I think we need it up here as a State
         19       Board of Education.  The Legislature's
         20       concerned, what happened to our 5 million
         21       dollars, how can this happen?
         22            So really, in essence, this is the first
         23       public hearing on the issue.
         24            MR. OLENICK:  That's correct, sir.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
          2            DR. BEDFORD:  Our next speaker is
          3       Murray Green, Vice President, General Manager,
          4       WFLX TV, West Palm Beach.
          5            MR. GREEN:  Governor, Commissioners, thank
          6       you for the opportunity.  My name is
          7       Murray J. Green.  I am Vice President and
          8       General Manager of the Fox affiliate, WFLX, in
          9       West Palm Beach; and a Senior Vice President of
         10       the Television Division of
         11       Malrite Communications, the company that owns
         12       WFLX.
         13            We are a company that takes a great deal of
         14       pride in our involvement in the community, and
         15       that's why I'm here.  We view WFLX, as you said,
         16       Commissioner Butterworth, as a community asset.
         17       And it's also a community trust and a public
         18       trust.
         19            It is licensed to serve the community, that
         20       community being a five-county area, which
         21       involves the Treasure Coast and
         22       Palm Beach County and Okeechobee County.
         23            From 1982 until 1993, it did so very well.
         24       There were thousands of members and volunteers
         25       that raised millions of dollars, and it was
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       solvent.
          2            In April '92, problems became imminent.
          3       There was a letter that I wrote to the Board on
          4       the 24th of April -- to the Board of WXEL, let
          5       me say -- on the 24th of April, recommending
          6       that they put a local broadcaster on the Board,
          7       and I recommended a very well respected
          8       broadcast administrator at that time.  That
          9       letter was totally ignored.
         10            There are five commercial stations in the
         11       community, and they serve the community well.
         12       And the market certainly is large enough to
         13       support a public television station of its own.
         14            It did so, and it can continue to do so.
         15       There are many, many smaller markets that do so
         16       very well.
         17            I'm really here to ask only one thing of
         18       this Board -- of this body, that they conduct a
         19       public hearing inside the market, and allow the
         20       people who have supported WXEL to express their
         21       feelings.
         22            I would like to see the people who have
         23       been involved, the volunteers, come before this
         24       group and tell you how they feel.  And ask those
         25       who serve WXEL if they will again support it
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       with their dollars.  When you have done that, we
          2       believe that you will find that there is already
          3       a renewed interest in WXEL TV and FM.
          4            And under a newly appointed Board, and
          5       inspired management, you will again have a
          6       station that the area and the state can be proud
          7       of.  We believe that it's imperative that those
          8       who are to be served by WXEL have an opportunity
          9       to speak to you.
         10            Thank you very much.
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
         12            DR. BEDFORD:  Dr. Charles Reed, Chancellor,
         13       State University System.
         14            Charlie.
         15            DR. REED:  Governor, members of the State
         16       Board of Education, around the middle of
         17       January, the State University System first heard
         18       of WXEL's relationship, or proposed
         19       relationship, with a private institution.
         20            At the January 24th Board of Regents
         21       meeting in Pensacola, I was directed by the
         22       Board of Regents to write to the State Board of
         23       Education and ask the State Board to look at the
         24       lease agreement that the State Board of
         25       Education had with WXEL, because several of our
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       institutions were interested in the operation of
          2       a public television station, specifically
          3       Florida Atlantic University and Florida
          4       International University.
          5            Since that time, Broward Community College,
          6       Palm Beach Community College, and Indian River
          7       Community College have formed a consortium with
          8       Florida Atlantic University, and Florida
          9       International University, to consider the
         10       possibility of being a part of operating WXEL.
         11            As you know, the State University System
         12       operates several public television stations.  We
         13       have operated public television stations,
         14       I believe, very successfully over the past
         15       umpteen years.
         16            The Board of Regents felt that the Board of
         17       Education's fiduciary responsibility was one of
         18       looking at the assets, something close to
         19       7 million dollars, of the State's money that had
         20       been invested in WXEL, and whether or not a
         21       consortium of institutions could be put together
         22       to operate the television station.
         23            I'm here to say that that consortium could
         24       be broadened to include private institutions,
         25       Barry, Nova, Nova University, Southeast -- Nova
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       has a lot of experience of operating
          2       telecommunication systems and television
          3       stations.
          4            I would like to request -- and I don't know
          5       if it's too late, I'm not a lawyer -- the
          6       opportunity for the public institutions, and the
          7       other institutions in south Florida, to look at
          8       the possibility of forming a consortium to come
          9       back to the State Board of Education and
         10       recommend to you a way of operating that
         11       television station.
         12            If we could do that, it would take us
         13       probably several weeks.  We need to look at the
         14       books, we need to look at the structure, we need
         15       to look at what the public investments have
         16       been, what the costs would be in order to do
         17       this.
         18            But Florida Atlantic University, Florida
         19       International University, Broward Community
         20       College, Palm Beach Community College, and
         21       Indian River Community College are all very
         22       willing and anxious to try to do what they can
         23       to operate this station.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Question?
         25            Thank you very much.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            DR. BEDFORD:  We have with us Mary Souder,
          2       President and CEO of WXEL; and Sister
          3       Jeanne O'Laughlin, President of Barry College.
          4            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  University.
          5            DR. BEDFORD:  University.  Excuse me.
          6            It shows you I read what's written, doesn't
          7       it?
          8            MS. SOUDER:  Thank you.
          9            Governor, members of the State Board, I
         10       would like to address the question of whether or
         11       not Barry Tel. would be qualified to assume the
         12       risk.  But before doing that, I would like to
         13       clarify a couple of issues, and answer some of
         14       the questions that have been raised.
         15            First of all, the question of Channel 2 in
         16       the market has been raised.  There is a history
         17       going back to the beginning of the station in
         18       which Channel 2 initially challenged the license
         19       at the FCC, and there is a long sustainable
         20       history of Channel 2 making various offers at
         21       different times to acquire that license, as well
         22       as a record of their putting substantial
         23       investment in a market to which their broadcast
         24       signal does not reach.
         25            And they invest most of their development
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       and fund raising money and activities in the
          2       market.
          3            Secondly was the question of the radio
          4       license.  In fact, the station has been
          5       approached by brokers on behalf of other
          6       501(C) (3), not-for-profit organizations, those
          7       qualified to hold educational licenses for the
          8       outright purchase of the license.
          9            Such a purchase would, in effect, have
         10       taken the NPR and public radio service out of
         11       the community, and replaced it with a service of
         12       another kind.
         13            It would have brought, as someone had
         14       suggested, money into the operation of the
         15       station.  But the consideration of this process
         16       is not to sell or to have assets leave the
         17       community, but to maintain and preserve a vital
         18       community asset.
         19            The question of secrecy has been raised.
         20       This has been a long and thoughtful process.  In
         21       November, we released press releases to all of
         22       the media in Palm Beach County.  I personally
         23       had individual phone calls with the general
         24       managers of all of the commercial stations in
         25       Miami to -- in Miami, as well as in Palm Beach,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       to discuss this issue.
          2            We had held an annual meeting.  The notices
          3       for the annual meeting were posted on all radio
          4       and television stations, as well as in the
          5       newspapers.  There was much made in the local
          6       press about the annual meeting, and very few
          7       members came to that meeting.
          8            Instead, we had hundreds of calls from
          9       members and partners in the community who have
         10       been supportive of this process.
         11            So the question again:  Is Barry Tel.
         12       qualified to assume the lease.
         13            I would suggest to you that Barry Tel. will
         14       be no less than what WXEL is today.  In fact, it
         15       will be more.
         16            A review of the documents stresses the
         17       continuation and continuity of service, and that
         18       means NPR and PBS, and the outreach and
         19       educational activities which we do.
         20            In fact, the intervention of
         21       Barry University has already demonstrated their
         22       commitment.
         23            The real question is:  What should be
         24       continued?  Has WXEL served the public
         25       interest?  Well, let's take a look at the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       record.
          2            There have been problems, but in spite of
          3       these problems, there's a strong record of
          4       service and success.
          5            Foremost, what is WXEL?  It is a
          6       private/public partnership, just as public
          7       broadcasting across the country is one of the
          8       most nation's successful public/private
          9       partnerships.
         10            Just a few of our partners:  The State of
         11       Florida, and we recognize and thank you for what
         12       you have provided; the Federal government; our
         13       local Board of Education; businesses,
         14       foundations; donors; and now Barry University.
         15            How does it work?  Collaboration, organized
         16       around four product lines.  We look at our
         17       product lines as heritage and culture,
         18       information and data, education and learning,
         19       development and training.
         20            We work with the -- we are the official
         21       emergency communication center for
         22       Palm Beach County.  That's a partnership with
         23       the Palm Beach Office of Emergency Services.
         24       And we're working to extend that commitment
         25       through the Board of Ed by interconnecting their
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       ITFS system and our emergency communication
          2       systems.
          3            We currently offer courses for college
          4       credit.  For the past two-and-a-half years, we
          5       have been in partnership with Palm Beach
          6       Community College, and we have offered many
          7       courses, and they have had over 700 students
          8       enrolled through that partnership.
          9            For the past five months, we have been in
         10       conversations with Indian River Community
         11       College to offer the same courses for college
         12       credits.  We have GED on TV, and we've had
         13       partners in that.  You may be surprised that the
         14       Cable Club of Palm Beach was the first partner
         15       who brought money to that and provided
         16       scholarships for students to complete the GED.
         17       And one of the first graduates of our GED on TV
         18       program is now completing nursing school.
         19       That's a success, that's a community resource.
         20            We work with AARP, and -- in an area where
         21       we have an aging demographic, you will believe
         22       that our Fifty-Five Alive Program, which teaches
         23       defensive driving to citizens, is a valuable
         24       program.
         25            And our first book, which is a continuity
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       literacy program for teachers, children, and
          2       parents.  And who do we work with?  The Mom's
          3       Club, United Way, subsidized child care, safe
          4       and drug-free schools, and children's services.
          5            And what about our Ready-to-Learn?  It is
          6       well-known among educators that one of the goals
          7       of America 2000 is that children be ready to
          8       learn by the time they enter school.  Funded by
          9       the CPB, and in collaboration with WLRN,
         10       reconstitute the largest and only collaborative
         11       ready-to-learn effort in the country.
         12            In the past, we have trained over
         13       700 teachers and day care providers.  This is a
         14       record of success.
         15            The State of Florida's own research shows
         16       that public broadcasting is the most utilized
         17       broadcast technology and the most utilized
         18       educational technology in the classroom.
         19            Through our training programs and other
         20       initiatives, we extend that use, and we help
         21       teachers, parents, and day care providers.
         22            So what does Barry Tel. bring?  Barry Tel.
         23       brings a commitment to localism and local
         24       control.  Barry Tel. brings scale and strength
         25       to a station, which for more than 25 years has
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       had financial problems.
          2            It brings lay leadership that can support a
          3       12 million dollar capital campaign to rebuild an
          4       aging infrastructure; a strong and committed
          5       partner to public television, and to the
          6       state of Florida.
          7            It brings flexibility to an organization
          8       whose strength is innovation.  We are the first
          9       and only station in the country to have a
         10       partnership with cable services and cable
         11       providers bringing programs to heritage and
         12       cultural groups in our community that would not
         13       otherwise be available, even on the cable
         14       systems in Palm Beach County.
         15            And finally, it brings the financial
         16       stability, which the television and radio
         17       station has not been able to maintain in
         18       25 years.
         19            Thank you for your consideration.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, ma'am.
         21            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  Good morning.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Good morning,
         23       Sister Jeanne.
         24            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  I have to say, it is a
         25       great privilege to be part of the dialogue going
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       on here.
          2            I think it was when I was in
          3       Commissioner Milligan's, the Comptroller, when
          4       he was listening to me and made a remark about
          5       how great the Democratic process is, that we as
          6       a people come together to talk about issues that
          7       affect the life of a community.
          8            I am, and have only been interested in
          9       community service for this area.  I've long been
         10       a proponent of public television, and that it
         11       should be for the local community.
         12            We have about 1500 students in that area
         13       this year, and over 9,000 alums, or people
         14       related to Barry.
         15            I'm not a lawyer.  I only know that it
         16       appeared to be, to me, a priority to save the
         17       station.
         18            When we stepped up to the plate and put the
         19       money down, that was an important action for us,
         20       for, as you know better than I, there's not
         21       money in public television.  It takes a lot of
         22       hard work, and it takes a lot of true service to
         23       a community.
         24            I cheat a little bit.  I prayed about
         25       today.  I was very concerned that the community
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       be served by whatever format comes from your
          2       decisions.  For I have great respect, and really
          3       reverence, for the kind of decisions that are
          4       made by this body.
          5            However, to me, the question is, was this
          6       legal or not legal.  With many lawyers speaking
          7       to me, it has been said that it is legal.  If it
          8       is not, then you should tell me, and I should
          9       step aside.
         10            If it is legal, then we should move
         11       forward, for justice is going to be served or
         12       denied on that.
         13            If we step forward, I would say that we
         14       have a three-phase project to do.  And I believe
         15       very much, as Charlie Reed, who is a colleague
         16       and a friend of mine, as is Tony, that -- I've
         17       been the Chair of the Florida Association of
         18       Colleges and Universities in the past.  I am
         19       presently the Chair of the Independent Colleges
         20       and Universities of Florida.
         21            It is my concern that we as people that are
         22       educators, who see the need of an educational
         23       mission, public television, that we truly meet
         24       the community needs.
         25            We might explore, first of all, the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       necessity and the urgency of serving -- getting
          2       that station on its feet right now.  There is
          3       much to be done.
          4            I have three full-time people working
          5       there -- have actually been working full-time
          6       since December -- getting that on its feet,
          7       first of all.
          8            The second phase for me would be to work
          9       with my colleagues in south Florida to -- to see
         10       if, in fact, a consortium of higher educational
         11       institutions can be put together.  I believe it
         12       can.  That was one of my first discussions --
         13       Mary will remember -- that, in fact, it is -- it
         14       belongs to the people, and the higher
         15       educational community could respond.
         16            That could be done on size of institution
         17       assets, and the liabilities that would be
         18       legitimately claimed.
         19            Barry has been a public servant for
         20       57 years.  We have a variety of contracts with
         21       the State.  We've been honorable citizens.  We
         22       continue to play that role, and will continue to
         23       play that role.
         24            It is my concern that we not spend great
         25       time and energy on the what-ifs and things that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       would block moving forward to serve the people.
          2            The -- if we lose the station, the
          3       Treasure Coast will not be able to get one
          4       back.  We have to keep this healthy until some
          5       of these decisions are decided, and that worries
          6       me.
          7            I think there was some mention that the FTE
          8       would certainly -- would suffer from
          9       Florida Atlantic.  There is no way that
         10       Barry University, or any private institution,
         11       can truly compete with -- or diminish a State
         12       university.
         13            When the State underwrites the public
         14       student for 7,000, and seventeen for the
         15       private; and I have to raise 80 percent to get
         16       some -- a student through school, and the State
         17       has to raise 20 percent, we're just not in the
         18       same ballpark.
         19            But we are in the same ballpark when it
         20       comes to purpose.  The purpose is quality
         21       education, and community service.
         22            And for me -- and I say this with great
         23       reverence -- for me, it is essential that this
         24       station serve the public and do the best public
         25       good.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            But I don't see how we can continue not
          2       making a decision or going forward, and have
          3       this a viable -- one of the best public
          4       televisions in the state.  It would be a unique
          5       opportunity for the higher educational
          6       community.
          7            And the ones that would benefit in the end
          8       would be the members of this community.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you very much,
         10       Sister Barry.  I want to compliment you, and --
         11       and Barry University, for stepping up to the
         12       plate.  I understand you've put about $750,000,
         13       maybe more than that in time and effort, to keep
         14       the station afloat and to keep it going, and
         15       that is a tremendously valuable service.
         16            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  It's vital.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  And we compliment you for
         18       that.  And that's something that y'all did.
         19            I've listened carefully to what you said.
         20       And -- and I think that there are two things
         21       that we're sort of talking about here, maybe.
         22       Maybe more than that.  But one is the legality.
         23       I'm -- have not had any chance to examine this.
         24       I'm handicapped with a law degree, but haven't
         25       used it very much in a long, long time.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            But there may be a situation where it is
          2       perfectly legal for this transfer or this
          3       accommodation to be made in which Barry steps
          4       into that.
          5            I think from the standpoint -- and I've
          6       listened again to your --
          7            (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- saying that we need to
          9       move forward in this.  We cannot sit and wait a
         10       long time.
         11            This is sort of a first impression, in
         12       spite of all the notice that might have been in
         13       the paper down in Palm Beach, and some of the
         14       notice of the annual meeting.  It's -- I think
         15       it's first impression to me in the last few days
         16       that I've heard about it -- I think to most of
         17       the members of the Cabinet -- we do sit as the
         18       State Board of Education as policymakers, and we
         19       have a fiduciary responsibility by virtue of the
         20       offices we hold, for that six million plus
         21       dollars of public money that has been placed
         22       into this.
         23            And so a decision to be made about this, we
         24       would certainly be -- not be following our
         25       responsibility if we were not a part of that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       decision.  So that is something that I think
          2       that -- you know, that we must be a part of.
          3            I listened also to, you know, what you were
          4       talking about, and to everybody, about the need
          5       to have the local support and the strength of
          6       the local support.  And that is not only
          7       necessary for a public television, but that's
          8       what the public television is all about,
          9       serving --
         10            (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- that very thing, and
         12       that partnership that you have.  And the station
         13       has enjoyed that, and a lot of local support
         14       over the years.
         15            It would seem to be that bringing
         16       Palm Beach Community College, Indian River
         17       Community College, Florida Atlantic, FIU, along
         18       with Barry, would be one of the ways of trying
         19       to strengthen.  And I guess it was
         20       Broward Community College, along with it -- to
         21       make sure that you even strengthen that bond and
         22       you just have more people supporting.
         23            I think this is something that should not
         24       wait around.  And I think if you -- I heard you
         25       say something about people stepping up to the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       plate and taking their share based on their
          2       assets.
          3            You're probably well beyond your share
          4       right now.  And anything that you -- that
          5       Barry University has placed up, it would only be
          6       fair if -- if everybody steps up, or if Barry is
          7       made whole for any efforts that they've made.
          8            But it would just seem to me that we would
          9       have maybe a win-win situation out of this if we
         10       could bring all of these parties together.
         11       You've performed, and the university has
         12       performed a leadership role.  I think you should
         13       continue to be in a very, very leadership and
         14       important role of any consortium that is set for
         15       this.
         16            But I would hope that within some short
         17       period of time, that somebody could tell us,
         18       this would come back to us, and -- and we could
         19       go look at this again.
         20            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  I would not even
         21       continue, Governor, had I thought there was
         22       anything that -- well, but legal.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Uh-hum.
         24            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  And I've had six very
         25       fine lawyers involved, as has WXEL.  And so that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       to me is -- we must get on with it.
          2            And it -- in order to serve that community
          3       well, we cannot halt and just say, well, it will
          4       stand there.  It will not.  I agree with you,
          5       the process has to go on.
          6            However, I think it should be the intent,
          7       as the process goes on, that it would be the
          8       higher educational community, and I think we
          9       have to look at the public school system also,
         10       that it truly has an educational mission.  That
         11       is --
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I agree.
         13            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  -- why they came to us
         14       in the beginning, because they wanted to look at
         15       that educational mission and community service.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Uh-hum.
         17            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  We have done that,
         18       we've had a record of it.  The 57 years, as you
         19       said, speak for itself.
         20            I'm just grateful for the possibility and
         21       the dialogue.  I continue to marvel how blessed
         22       we are as a country that people with a problem,
         23       or something that concerns the community, that
         24       we are privileged to come before the highest
         25       authority in the state, and make a statement.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            And that -- that's something that, if
          2       nothing else, I have learned very well.  And I
          3       really appreciate that very much.
          4            Thank you.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor?
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Question.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yes, sir.
          8            First I want to thank Sister Jeanne and
          9       Chancellor Reed, and the others who have spoken
         10       to this issue.
         11            I agree, this is -- as characterized by the
         12       General -- one of the first opportunities that
         13       all of us have had the chance to speak about
         14       this, and hear about this in a public forum, and
         15       I think that's very healthy.  And I appreciate
         16       people coming forward on the issue.
         17            I think, as our General Counsel discussed
         18       earlier, and the Governor picked up on later, we
         19       actually have, as State Board of Education, two
         20       roles that we play in this particular
         21       undertaking.  One is a fiduciary responsibility
         22       based on the expenditure of public funds; and
         23       making certain, number two, that as the lessor
         24       of this facility, we are satisfied, as
         25       apparently is required in the lease agreement,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       regardless of who is on the other side of the
          2       lease agreement, that the entity which holds
          3       that lease with us fulfills an educational
          4       mission.
          5            I think also, as the Governor suggested,
          6       ultimately the legal minds will continue to
          7       probe and poke and look at this potential
          8       arrangement to satisfy themselves it is within
          9       legal bounds as far as the arrangement is
         10       concerned.
         11            The State Board's role, as I understand it,
         12       would ultimately be determined at the level of a
         13       lease-lease arrangement.  And our responsibility
         14       to be satisfied that, again, whether it is
         15       Barry Tel., or a consortium, or whatever it ends
         16       up being in the long run, meets the obligation
         17       set out in that lease arrangement, which
         18       requires that the leaseholder, or the lessee
         19       provide that educational mission.
         20            And I think that, as this thing moves
         21       forward, and ultimately when it comes back to
         22       the State Board of Education, our responsibility
         23       will be more narrowly focused on the issue of
         24       lessor-lessee, and the caveats that we're
         25       required to see are fulfilled.  And I think
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       that's an appropriate role to play.
          2            And, General, you are an attorney, and I
          3       know that you -- you are working on this issue
          4       as well.
          5            But we thought it was important to bring
          6       this forward to the Cabinet today, based on the
          7       lease arrangement, but also to give all of us an
          8       opportunity to hear a little bit more about
          9       those things that we've been reading and those
         10       things that we've been hearing.
         11            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  Barry Tel., the -- is
         12       really the structure, and Barry University is
         13       the only member.  But it is the structure
         14       requested whereby editorial freedom would be
         15       guaranteed.  And that was the reason for that
         16       structure.
         17            That was one commitment that was made, and
         18       you will notice that in the document.
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yeah, if I can just
         20       follow-up real quickly.
         21            I think that in much of what I've read,
         22       some of the members of the press -- and I
         23       understand why -- are a little confused over the
         24       State Board's role in all of this.  They suggest
         25       that the State Board has the ability to derail
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       this if, in fact, we believe that it is an
          2       illegal arrangement.
          3            And, again, I -- what we're trying to do
          4       today is put the State Board in its appropriate
          5       role as far as having people understand on the
          6       State Board, but more importantly, have others
          7       understand in a public forum, that our ability
          8       to -- to either see this arrangement
          9       consummated, or our ability to see this
         10       arrangement move in a different direction --
         11       and, General, please help me if you think I'm
         12       wrong -- is based solely on our lessor-lessee
         13       arrangement and the caveat that requires an
         14       educational mission of whoever holds that lease
         15       with us in a legal arrangement.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Yeah.
         17       I think that it's -- that's primarily -- but
         18       there are other aspects of the lease, and other
         19       legalities which -- which have to be totally
         20       looked at.
         21            But I think that the -- what this Board
         22       wants to do in our fiduciary relationship,
         23       I think, is -- is very important.  And I know
         24       the Legislature probably had a certain intent
         25       when they -- when they, in essence, appropriated
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       the money to go in this direction.
          2            But there are many things we'll be looking
          3       at, working with -- with your office, your legal
          4       staff, the legal staffs of the State Board, as
          5       well as -- as, of course, Barry and WXEL, and
          6       also the -- the University System.
          7            And hopefully -- I agree with the Sister,
          8       this thing cannot sit for a period of time.
          9       This thing has to keep moving.  And perhaps we
         10       should agenda it again for our next meeting
         11       where we may or may not be able to take final
         12       action.
         13            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  Just a point of
         14       information.  The consultant who was hired in,
         15       I believe, October by WXEL has finished the
         16       report, and we would get that to you.
         17            The basic thing that -- that he found is
         18       that support of the community is there.  So that
         19       was of interest to us.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there a general -- an
         21       agreement conceptually that we would like to
         22       have this matter come back before us at the next
         23       meeting, which will be in March, and see if that
         24       time -- let's see -- announce that meeting.
         25       That would be March --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  The 11th.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- the 11th.
          3            And to see if -- if by that time, we can
          4       have a better understanding, and that if during
          5       that time, the -- the parties can have a chance
          6       to see if they can get together and bring us a
          7       conceptual plan.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Can I ask a question,
          9       Governor?
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And it's opinion,
         12       General.
         13            When would -- and I agree, we should come
         14       back at the next meeting.
         15            Is what we would be taking action on at
         16       that meeting then what I -- what I understand to
         17       be the case, that we would, as the State Board,
         18       be asked to take an official position on the
         19       lessor-lessee arrangement, and whether or not we
         20       do believe that there is an educational mission
         21       that would be met by the entity?
         22            Or is there a larger question that this
         23       Board would have to take up?  That's where I
         24       become a little unclear.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I think
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       that's primarily our fiduciary relationship,
          2       make sure it stays educational, make sure it
          3       stays not-for-profit, make sure it stays in
          4       the -- in public education.
          5            But the -- I believe the Governor has
          6       stated, in the next couple of weeks, I'm sure,
          7       Barry and the State University System, the
          8       community colleges, as well as the Boards of
          9       Education -- at least definitely of
         10       Palm Beach -- will want to have their input,
         11       because they are part of the educational system,
         12       they -- they have an investment, and WXEL, they
         13       don't want to see diminished either.
         14            So it'd be important to hear from all of
         15       them, and then determine what we believe is the
         16       best thing for the -- our fiduciary
         17       responsibility in accordance with the laws of
         18       the State of Florida, and with the contract.
         19            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  Are you saying then
         20       that I should not do anything at this point?
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I think
         22       that --
         23            Governor, I don't know.  I mean, the
         24       station has to be run.  And I think, as the
         25       Governor has stated, is -- that you did come in
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       at a point in time when the station was in
          2       need.
          3            As you've done now with the TV station, but
          4       with so many things, so many of us are so
          5       familiar with over the years.
          6            And many of us agree when they featured you
          7       on Dan Rather, that they definitely featured the
          8       best Floridian they possibly could have featured
          9       as -- as a great American.
         10            And I personally have no problem with
         11       continuing what you're doing right now.  But --
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, I think not only
         13       continue, I think -- I think we're expressing
         14       our -- our support, and literally our word that
         15       we don't intend to have you suffer a great
         16       financial hardship because of -- because you've
         17       stepped up as a Good Samaritan, and you've
         18       invested your time and your money in this
         19       project --
         20            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  It's just so important
         21       to the people of that community, and I just want
         22       to make sure that we're clear that the people
         23       not suffer because of some nits and grits and
         24       periods.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think that's exactly
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       our intent.
          2            And I -- and I would hope -- and
          3       I thank you for your -- your very, very kind
          4       words of the action that is taken sometimes up
          5       here by the Governor and the Cabinet in public
          6       policy issues, we wish it was all the time.
          7            But regardless of the pure legal aspect of
          8       this thing, it seems to me, if you can bring
          9       together a plan that has the blessings of the
         10       State Board of Education, which maybe carries
         11       with it further PECO funding when necessary, or
         12       other public funding, as well as hopefully,
         13       you know, some certification that would receive
         14       public support, that that would be very helpful
         15       to this station as it goes forward in the
         16       future, carrying out its public mission,
         17       you know.
         18            SISTER O'LAUGHLIN:  Thank you, Governor.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         20            DR. BEDFORD:  Now if I could return to
         21       Item 1.
         22            Item 1 is the quarterly reports for
         23       October 1st through December 31st.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         25            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          3            Without objection, they're approved.
          4            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 2 is the FIRN purchase
          5       order for Information Systems of Florida,
          6       Incorporated.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          8            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, it's approved.
         11            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 3 is the Readiness for
         12       College Report.  I will give a very -- very,
         13       very brief report.
         14            We'll use the transparencies.  I believe
         15       this is the fourth time I've come before you
         16       with this report.
         17            The news that I have this year, of course,
         18       you've all, I hope, received a green book that
         19       looks similar to this.  The charts I will be
         20       using are from that book.  And I'll give you a
         21       very brief synopsis of the 1995 high school
         22       graduates.
         23            These are the first-time attendees.  These
         24       are graduates of Florida public schools that
         25       attend Florida public community colleges or
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       universities.
          2            The very first slide that we will show you
          3       is a continuation of a general downward trend in
          4       the percentage of readiness in all areas.  On
          5       the slide and in your book, you will see the
          6       numbers that indicate the percentages ready in
          7       math, writing, and reading.  And you will notice
          8       that all of them have gone down.  And the
          9       readiness in all areas stands at 54.1 percent.
         10            I'll come back and visit that slide in just
         11       a second, as we go on and take a look at
         12       readiness by area and institution type.
         13            As we talked last year, the readiness of
         14       the university students.  And if you'll go
         15       across and look at readiness of the State
         16       University System in math, writing, reading, you
         17       will find that they are at 95.6, 95.1, and 96.3;
         18       and in all areas, 91.5.
         19            On the other hand, if you will go across
         20       and look at the community college readiness, the
         21       readiness in math was 56.4, the readiness in
         22       writing was 61.6, the readiness in reading was
         23       66.5.  But the overall readiness in all areas
         24       for community college entering freshmen was
         25       37.1 percent.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            The next slide will --
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thirty-seven point
          3       one percent --
          4            DR. BEDFORD:  Were ready in all areas.
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- were ready in all
          6       areas.
          7            DR. BEDFORD:  Were ready in all areas,
          8       reading, writing, and mathematics.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  So really there were --
         10       then 63 were not ready.
         11            DR. BEDFORD:  That's correct.  That is
         12       correct.
         13            The next transparency looks at ethnicity.
         14       The American Indian is a bit of an anomaly in
         15       that it's -- a very small number of test takers
         16       have a tremendous influence on the percentage,
         17       because the base number is very low.  That was
         18       an increase to 54.9 percent.  Asian students,
         19       exactly the same, 59 percent the last two years;
         20       black was a decrease from 35.2 percent ready to
         21       35.0; Hispanics decreased to 37.5; white
         22       decreased to 63.6.
         23            Generally, if we were looking through this
         24       data, you would find that whichever area you
         25       look at, there was, in fact, a decrease.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            The next transparency is by gender.  If we
          2       look at gender, we would find that all of the
          3       areas reflect a decrease.  A generalized
          4       statement would let you assume that females
          5       achieved at a lower rate in math, females
          6       achieved at a higher rate in writing, and
          7       females achieved at a lower rate in reading.
          8       And those are fairly consistent with what each
          9       year's data has shown.
         10            If we could put the first slide back up,
         11       Colleen, the one that shows the overall --
         12            The overall readiness tested is one that is
         13       probably used by the press most in the articles
         14       that they have written.  And it is the one that,
         15       indeed, shows that only 54 percent of the total
         16       graduates that attended public community
         17       colleges, or public universities were, in fact,
         18       ready in all areas.
         19            And I know you've heard a lot about the
         20       amount of money it takes in remediation, and
         21       I think the Commissioner has put forth several
         22       programs to correct this situation, and that is
         23       our pledge.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor --
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- just some
          2       comments.  These are for 94-95.  We hope --
          3            DR. BEDFORD:  Right.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- we're going to see
          5       some changes over the next couple of years.
          6            But let me say, first of all, that as, no
          7       doubt you are -- and I'm not trying to speak for
          8       the members of the State Board of Education, but
          9       I'll -- I'll speak for myself -- I continue to
         10       be -- I continue to marvel at the incredible
         11       number of students who require mediation in
         12       basic reading, writing, and mathematics.
         13            What scares me worse, Governor, is the fact
         14       that these are the students who aspire to any
         15       kind of a postsecondary education, whether it's
         16       community college or university.
         17            I then have to consider those who are not,
         18       and where they might be, in terms of their
         19       ability to read, write, or calculate
         20       mathematically at what is about a 10th grade
         21       level, as gauged by the college placement test.
         22            And I think it simply begs that this state
         23       get serious about many of the changes that you
         24       all have supported up here as the State Board of
         25       Education in implementation.  If -- as I've said
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       to the press on this issue, if these statistics
          2       don't scream urgency, I don't know what will.
          3            I am given hope by virtue of the fact --
          4       and I appreciate your support on these
          5       initiatives -- that we're now infusing the
          6       Sunshine State Standards, and the new Florida
          7       Comprehensive Assessment Test.
          8            I'm given hope that we are now
          9       standardizing the college placement test, and
         10       the cut scores, as you recall that we brought to
         11       you some months ago, which I think will give a
         12       much clearer picture to K through 12 as to
         13       exactly what's expected of a youngster who hopes
         14       to go on to any sort of a postsecondary
         15       education.
         16            We have now moved the college placement
         17       test just this year down in a voluntary basis to
         18       the high school level so that students who are
         19       considering any sort of a postsecondary
         20       educational experience will have the opportunity
         21       to begin to feel what that test is all about,
         22       and schedule accordingly.
         23            We are moving again this year to increase
         24       the graduation requirements in the state of
         25       Florida proportionately from the 1.5 to a 2.0;
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       require Algebra I, remembering that many of the
          2       students who are doing poorly on the math
          3       portion of this test have never seen Algebra I,
          4       or its equivalent, much less be able to pass it
          5       on a test.
          6            We're beginning to not only constrain the
          7       number of Level I courses that students can take
          8       in high school, which are those functional
          9       remedial courses, but we are looking to change
         10       the course code directory where we're actually
         11       going to eliminate a good number of Level I
         12       courses from availability, and require that
         13       those who are enrolled in Level I courses do so
         14       with the approval of their parents, so their
         15       parents will understand exactly what those
         16       Level I courses will provide.
         17            We're working with the Legislature this
         18       year on a college ready diploma; reading
         19       requirements, especially at the elementary and
         20       middle school levels to see to it that students
         21       don't make it to high school without the ability
         22       to read on grade level.  On and on.
         23            So I -- I just -- I want to tell you that
         24       while I continue to be depressed by the college
         25       readiness report year in and year out, I also
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       simultaneously want to commend you, and also the
          2       members of the Legislature, for supporting what
          3       I believe are some very drastic, but long
          4       overdue actions, to hopefully see this thing
          5       turn around in the very near future.
          6            Because there is a tremendous urgency to
          7       this, not only financial, with the amount of
          8       money we're putting into remediation, but more
          9       importantly, making certain that there is a
         10       certain amount of truth in advertising here that
         11       when a youngster does graduate from high school,
         12       they are leaving with the skills that will
         13       either allow them to go successfully to the
         14       world of work, or on to postsecondary education,
         15       ready to compete, without having to face more
         16       and more and more remedial activities in basic
         17       reading, writing, and math.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We -- I just wanted to
         19       mention, and I -- I concur in what you say,
         20       about we hope there are some steps that we have
         21       already taken with the Sunshine State Standards,
         22       with the standardized testing, with all of those
         23       steps that we're taking that you've cited that
         24       are going to change these numbers.
         25            But my concern is, what kind of testing do
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       we have -- what kind of acknowledgment do we
          2       have at this stage of whether a child is ready
          3       to enter into the 1st grade, or to
          4       kindergarten?
          5            Because I think, again, our attention is on
          6       the remediation, the steps that we take in
          7       high school, even in middle school.
          8            But if we aren't starting with a healthy
          9       product to start with, I think we can do all of
         10       these things, and we will, and I still don't
         11       think we'll see much in the way of change if we
         12       don't start in the beginning.
         13            I think we're now seeing the whole ball
         14       game is through zero to five.  Everything's laid
         15       down.  All the wiring, all the circuits, all of
         16       the brain is laid out during that time.  That,
         17       I think, is where Florida is still missing.
         18            I would like to see us, if we really want
         19       to look and see where we are, and what we should
         20       be doing, that we would have the kind of numbers
         21       that would tell us at kindergarten, or at the
         22       1st grade where we are, and maybe that would
         23       help us get some of the public support that
         24       we're going to have to have to get children
         25       ready to learn.  It's --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  That's right,
          2       Governor --
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- part of our
          4       Goals 2000, it's part of our plan.  But in spite
          5       of being on the paper, there's daggum little
          6       we're doing about it when we see we're 47th, and
          7       what we're doing for our children.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  That's an excellent
          9       point.  And we are taking steps to try to
         10       provide those numbers.  For years we have pumped
         11       a great deal of money into readiness programs
         12       around the state, prekindergarten being one.
         13            But, we have, I think, failed to determine
         14       via numbers whether those youngsters are
         15       actually coming to kindergarten better prepared
         16       as a result of having gone through those
         17       programs.  I think globally, we all believe
         18       that's the case.
         19            But what we're trying to do now is create a
         20       consistency of reporting so that the
         21       kindergarten teachers, via observations of
         22       certain skills, will be able -- be better in a
         23       position to really consistently determine if,
         24       in fact, these programs are meeting the needs of
         25       the children that they serve, and the money that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       we spend.
          2            Because I agree with you, Governor, if,
          3       in fact, you take a youngster who walks into
          4       kindergarten already three grade levels, or
          5       three years chronologically behind their peers,
          6       you're constantly trying to play a game of
          7       catch-up.
          8            And I think as we do spend money in
          9       Headstart, and money in prekindergarten, and
         10       money in some of the other readiness programs,
         11       while we have somewhat shunned, I think,
         12       accountability with those programs as to whether
         13       they were doing what it is we hoped they would
         14       do, we've got to start to embrace that and make
         15       certain that, indeed, those expenditures --
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, it's --
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- in terms of --
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- not only --
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- having that --
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- accountability, we've
         21       shunned the availability.  If you look at -- see
         22       the percentage of our kids that are actually in
         23       prekindergarten, you know, that are served that
         24       way; and the ones that aren't served are the
         25       ones that most desperately need that service, as
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       well as the -- the nurturing and remediation or
          2       that support that they would have prior to the
          3       time they even go to that -- they're four years
          4       old.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I also have the
          6       ability -- or the opportunity to sit on the
          7       Wages Board, Work Force Development, child care
          8       and readiness programs I think are about to get
          9       a new focus, I hope, in this state, with not
         10       only State, but Federal dollars, in terms of
         11       some of these activities, to make certain that
         12       more youngsters get what it is that they need.
         13            But I -- I really believe that while you're
         14       right, this is at the end of the game as far as
         15       statistics, it's a systemic problem that we
         16       face, and one that starts from the day they walk
         17       in the door, and then works its way throughout
         18       the system to the day they walk out, either
         19       prepared or not prepared.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It starts the day they're
         21       born.
         22            TREASURER NELSON:  Well, I would like to
         23       associate myself with the remarks of the
         24       Governor.
         25            And I'd like to also compliment the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       Commissioner of Education on offering leadership
          2       and moving us in the right direction.
          3            Having said that, I'm wondering if we
          4       should brace ourself, Frank, next year that
          5       we're going to have a requirement of a higher
          6       passing score on the placement test that's going
          7       to take effect.
          8            So is not what we're going to see on the
          9       chart a year from now a continual decline?
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Well, there's a
         11       couple of variables involved in these numbers.
         12       One, I'm told there was a higher number of
         13       students who took this test.
         14       Psychometricians --
         15            (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
         16       room.)
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- will tell you that
         18       that typically will give you a decrease in
         19       scores, just because you have a higher test
         20       pool.
         21            When we get the bulge, which is the great
         22       boom of students who are going to move to
         23       community college and university over the next
         24       several years that you hear people like
         25       Chancellor Reed talk about, we can expect an
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       even larger test pool, which means that we may
          2       see a continual decline.
          3            But back to what you're saying, indeed, as
          4       we've standardized the college placement test
          5       scores, and actually in some ways, in a few of
          6       those scores, increase the rigor to, I believe,
          7       where it needs to be, there is the potential
          8       that at least in the short-term, we're going to
          9       see some numbers that we may want to brace for.
         10            It's a little like the F-CAT.  We're giving
         11       a test that we hope will be an accurate
         12       reflection of what children had better be able
         13       to do to be successful in the 21st century.  But
         14       that doesn't mean you shouldn't brace for the
         15       initial results, and use those results so that
         16       you can change your program to help increase the
         17       results over time.
         18            DR. BEDFORD:  One item that we hope will
         19       help, I think about 55 counties have changed to
         20       Algebra I requirement.  And that -- once we get
         21       that statewide, we think that will really help,
         22       too.
         23            The next item is Item 4.  Item 4, we are
         24       asking to have withdrawn.
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Do you need a motion
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       on that, Governor?
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I'll take one.
          3            Motion to withdraw.
          4            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there a second?
          6            Without objection, it's withdrawn.
          7            DR. BEDFORD:  That concludes the State
          8       Board of Education business.
          9            (The State Board of Education Agenda was
         10       concluded.)
         11                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Now, we'll go
          2       back and then --
          3            DR. BEDFORD:  State Board of Career Ed.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Oh, right.  Yes.
          5       All right.  We'll take up the Career Education.
          6            (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
          7       room.)
          8            DR. BEDFORD:  State Board of Career
          9       Education.  Item 1, minutes of the meeting
         10       held --
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes --
         12            DR. BEDFORD:  -- November 7th --
         13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- Governor.
         14            DR. BEDFORD:  -- 1997.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Minutes are moved.
         16            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
         18            Without objection, they're approved.
         19            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 2, the 1996 annual
         20       report by the Florida Education and Employment
         21       Council for Women and Girls.
         22            We have Colonel Ronald Joe -- Ronald Joe,
         23       Chairman, Florida Education and Employment
         24       Council for Women and Girls.
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And I'll move
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       approval for --
          2            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- discussion.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  It's been
          5       moved and seconded.
          6            We'll hear from the Colonel.
          7            DR. BEDFORD:  He had such great success
          8       last year, he's ready again.
          9            COLONEL JOE:  Good morning, Governor,
         10       Board.  It's a pleasure to -- to be here this
         11       morning.
         12            First of all, I'm on the Board again by
         13       appointment, now retired and living in
         14       Tallahassee, working at Florida A&M University
         15       as Director for Student Activities there.
         16            And I'm presenting this report because at
         17       the time that it was compiled, I was Chairman of
         18       the Council.
         19            Let me present two people who are here with
         20       me to assist for the really hard questions if I
         21       get any.
         22            First of all, Dr. Carol Darling, who is the
         23       Executive Director for the Council.
         24            And then Ms. Barbara Gershman, who is the
         25       Vocational Education and Gender Equity
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       Administrator for Florida.  And she is a part of
          2       the Department of Education.
          3            We represent the Council here today, and
          4       it's a pleasure to be here to present this
          5       Seventh Annual Report.
          6            Just a little bit about the Council again.
          7       It is a diverse Council; men and women on it; a
          8       variety of occupations, from NASA scientists to
          9       small business persons, educators, retirees, and
         10       volunteers; there are blacks, whites, Hispanics,
         11       Native Americans on board the Council, who are
         12       from all regions of the state.
         13            There are different political beliefs
         14       across the Council, which makes for very
         15       interesting discussions; and there's a variety
         16       of economic and educational backgrounds on the
         17       Council as well.
         18            It was formed in May of 1989, and we are
         19       appointed and serve at the pleasure of the
         20       Commissioner.
         21            The purpose of the Council is to foster a
         22       public consciousness of the talents and plights
         23       of women and girls in the state of Florida,
         24       regardless of their age, their race, color,
         25       creed, or handicapping conditions.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            We encourage girls and women to participate
          2       in education and training that will lead to high
          3       wage, or living wage jobs or occupations.  And
          4       we support women in taking leadership positions
          5       in those roles.
          6            I'd like to, on behalf of the Council,
          7       thank personally again Commissioner Brogan for
          8       his support to the Council, both last year, and
          9       this year.
         10            And I'd also like to thank
         11       Mr. Joe Stephens, who is the Director of Applied
         12       Technology and Adult Education for the
         13       Department of Education, and is not here today.
         14            First of all, I think I would be remiss in
         15       not mentioning that we did put a report out last
         16       year, and we showed it to you last year, and it
         17       was on teen pregnancy; and to say to you that
         18       that report enjoyed not only statewide support,
         19       it also enjoyed national support.
         20            We are still getting requests for copies of
         21       that report, and still getting requests to do
         22       television and other kind of interviews --
         23            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
         24            COLONEL JOE:  -- to do that.
         25            As a result of that report, we think that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       about seven pieces of legislation were offered,
          2       and perhaps two -- at least two were passed.
          3       And, therefore, the Council takes pleasure in
          4       serving you and knowing that we did make a
          5       difference.
          6            As we went through and talked about, and
          7       studied teen pregnancy, and looked for linkage,
          8       and tried to decide where would we go from teen
          9       pregnancy to this year's efforts for the Council
         10       and this year's report, we bumped into the teen
         11       pregnancy issue, and women, single head of
         12       household, who were grappling with and locked
         13       into the poverty cycle that teen families and
         14       teen single mother family found themselves
         15       involved in.
         16            And we ran smack up against the reality
         17       that not only Florida, but all states, were
         18       about to undergo welfare reform, and look at
         19       work force development.
         20            And we decided to take a look at what the
         21       implications for those pieces of legislation,
         22       and that area would have on these women who are
         23       living in our state, and their attempts to move
         24       themselves to the work force.
         25            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COLONEL JOE:  This study that we're
          2       presenting to you this morning, this report that
          3       I'm presenting this morning, is Part I of a
          4       two-year study.
          5            As we looked at this area, we realized that
          6       it's a big area.  We can't get through it in one
          7       year, and we're going to look at it over
          8       two years.
          9            This report is the first of that two-year
         10       report.  And so, even as I stand here speaking
         11       today, we are having, throughout the state,
         12       meetings with people involved in the work force
         13       development, who are parts of wage boards, who
         14       are women who are single head of households, who
         15       are teen parents, and others involved in the
         16       program, to look at the implications of people
         17       moving to work force and getting to high wage
         18       kinds of jobs as a part of doing that.
         19            The report has 23 recommendations.  I would
         20       like to draw your attention to the report
         21       itself.  There is a copy at your desk there.
         22            And I would first like to draw your
         23       attention to the table of contents just to go
         24       briefly, to show you how we have broken it up.
         25            We have recommendations there on page 6.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       I've already said that there are 23 of them.  On
          2       page 14, we look at poverty rates, we look at
          3       high wage jobs for economic security on
          4       page 17.
          5            We look at education and say that education
          6       is key, and we did that beginning on page 24.
          7       And we -- we offer a model for how education and
          8       support surfaces can work in the attempt to move
          9       people from welfare to a living wage, or a high
         10       wage job situation.
         11            And then finally, I draw your attention to
         12       34, page 34, where we talk about understanding
         13       women's poverty and welfare reform.
         14            And particularly under there, it talks
         15       about myths and realities.  And I think that
         16       offers some good reading, because, I think,
         17       again, it's a good report to read.
         18            Let me next ask you to look at page 6.
         19       Page 6 begins our recommendations.  And I'm
         20       going to read, with your permission, just four
         21       of those recommendations, and then I will talk
         22       to them in -- in the concluding portion of my
         23       report.
         24            First of all, under recommendations on
         25       policy planning and administration,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       recommendation number 1 says that it is
          2       recommended that the State of Florida study the
          3       impact of changes in welfare and work programs
          4       in order to assure a sufficient safety net for
          5       individuals and families who are unable to meet
          6       the time limits, or who must return to public
          7       assistance due to public or mental health
          8       problems, or other hardships.
          9            Next I would like to read for you
         10       recommendation number 2, under recommendations
         11       on education for high wage jobs.  Still on
         12       page 6, at the bottom of the page.
         13            It is recommended that the time allowed for
         14       an individual to enroll in remedial orientation,
         15       or prerequisite courses, and to complete an
         16       educational training or apprenticeship program,
         17       be in the range of two to four years in order to
         18       receive adequate training to enter a high wage
         19       occupation.
         20            Access to all educational and training
         21       programs should be assured for all women,
         22       regardless of any personal characteristic.
         23            On page 7, under recommendations on
         24       accountability, recommendation number 2:  It is
         25       recommended that demographic data be collected
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       on every individual receiving services by
          2       gender, race, ethnicity, age, disability,
          3       marital status, and socioeconomic class.
          4            And the final one that I would like to read
          5       is recommendation number 6 under recommendations
          6       on families and poverty.
          7            And it reads:  It is recommended that
          8       provisions be implemented for subsidized
          9       affordable quality developmental care for
         10       children from birth to age three, and preschool
         11       children -- and preschool for children above the
         12       toddler age, which is essential for women's
         13       participation in education, job training, and
         14       work programs.
         15            We are a Council, and so we don't take to
         16       try to say whether work force development ought
         17       to happen, whether Wages will or will not
         18       succeed.  We're looking at the safety net, will
         19       it work; and then to make recommendations and a
         20       study about what can we recommend to you that
         21       will work as we attempt to move people from
         22       welfare to work.
         23            First of all, we think that what is most
         24       important is that skills are important.  We
         25       think that education is important.  We think
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       that people who are moving from welfare to work
          2       have to be educated, they have to be trained.
          3       The wages bill says that we must work first.
          4            Now, I know standing here that that may
          5       be -- what I'm about to say may be a little bit
          6       in discord.  But the people that we've talked to
          7       and interviewed said that when a worker comes to
          8       them on the job, that individual needs to bring
          9       certain social skills to the job.
         10            So that, for example, if they're selling
         11       hamburgers, I don't lose hamburger sales because
         12       I've hired somebody that doesn't have the social
         13       skills to be compatible with my customer across
         14       the counter, if you will.  They need work skills
         15       that they should bring to the job.
         16            The feeling is on the part of the people in
         17       the field that two years really is not adequate
         18       to have people trained, and particularly if you
         19       have a vocational aspect of that training that's
         20       required.
         21            And we want to train them for a job that's
         22       a living wage job that allows them to make
         23       enough money that not only will we move them off
         24       of welfare, but hopefully there is the
         25       long-range goal of leaving them off of welfare
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       for a long period of time.
          2            I think that you all discussed a great deal
          3       of that up here in just -- up here just a few
          4       minutes ago.  We need literacy.  And if we're
          5       having problems with people who are thinking
          6       about going on to college and are going on to
          7       junior colleges, what about those that are in
          8       poverty, and when we're talking about moving
          9       them from welfare to a job.  They need -- they
         10       need remedial training.
         11            And there are those who use English as a
         12       second language, who also need now training on
         13       the English language before we can put them into
         14       jobs that are going to be high wage jobs.
         15            Now, I keep saying that.  In a minute, I
         16       want to make the connection why high wage
         17       along -- or high paying jobs or living wage jobs
         18       are important to us.
         19            The second important thing for us to cover
         20       here is that there needs to be a baseline
         21       study.  So our recommendation is that Florida
         22       needs to gather data on the people that are
         23       coming off of welfare.
         24            Where are they going when they come off of
         25       welfare, what is happening to them when they
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       come off of welfare, are they staying off, are
          2       they in a job, are they productive citizens, or
          3       are they simply slipping somewhere out of the
          4       net where no one knows what's going to happen to
          5       them.
          6            And this is especially important for female
          7       single parent heads of household.
          8            Now, next I will tell you what we ran into
          9       and consider the great biggest portion of our
         10       whole study to date.  And that's a simple word
         11       called child care.
         12            It is occurring to us as we talk to people
         13       throughout the state, that they can't do what
         14       we're asking them to do with respect to moving
         15       from welfare to a job without child care.
         16            Child care is critical, because for the
         17       single parent to go and work, she -- and we're
         18       talking she, because that's the greatest
         19       percentage here -- has to have someone to take
         20       care of her child.
         21            We have said in our report, the research
         22       indicates that in an ideal situation, a family
         23       should spend approximately 10 percent of their
         24       income on child care.
         25            In this welfare, minimum wage kind of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       environment that we're talking about, we see
          2       situations in the research where as much as
          3       60 percent of a family's income is required for
          4       that family to be able to put their children in
          5       child care.
          6            Envision with me for a few minutes a single
          7       head of household.  And let's say that it's a
          8       woman.  And let's say that this woman needs to
          9       go to work because Wages says go to work, and it
         10       says, go to work first.
         11            Let's make her a single parent, let's make
         12       her a mom, let's say she needs social skills --
         13       skills, let's say she needs education.  She
         14       needs a living wage so that she can pay the
         15       child care bill if she possibly can.
         16            Let's let her have an infant.  And let's
         17       just pretend that that infant is, for example,
         18       three months old, which one of the bills says
         19       that if you get a three-month old infant, then
         20       it's okay for you to go to work.
         21            The Tallahassee Democrat on
         22       February the 20th had an article, and that
         23       article was titled:  One Less Day Care Center,
         24       One More Worry for Parents.  And they talked
         25       about parents in the State system who are -- who
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       are employed by the State.  Not welfare moms.
          2            And just one excerpt from -- from that
          3       article said this:  Six of the children are
          4       infants, which hardly any commercial child care
          5       center has space for.
          6            So even if we do all the other things that
          7       we want to do, child care is sparse.  If there
          8       are infants involved, it costs even more for an
          9       infant to be taken care of.
         10            And then let me paint you two more issues
         11       with this same person.  Let's say that she has
         12       more than one child.
         13            We ran into a lady in Tampa, Florida, on
         14       Friday of last week -- I hope it was Friday --
         15       Thursday or Friday of last week, who I would say
         16       was atypical in all regards.
         17            She was a white mom; she had eight
         18       children; she did nontraditional work, she was a
         19       construction worker; she got herself educated to
         20       go do it.  And to sit and listen at the woes and
         21       the difficulty -- because she was committed to
         22       get off of welfare and get herself to a job.
         23            But to listen at the woes and all of the
         24       hard work it took to get there.  Because, now,
         25       in addition to needing child care, as a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       nontraditional worker, she needed special child
          2       care so if there are clinicals you have to go
          3       to, if there's work that has to be done off duty
          4       hours, if there's vocational training to be
          5       done, if there's remedial training to be done,
          6       then the child care was all the more important.
          7            Now, I sort of waddled around that a little
          8       bit, but I want to make the point then -- and
          9       the report makes some recommendations -- that
         10       key to getting people from welfare to work, and
         11       the finding of our committee, is the issue of
         12       child care.
         13            And, Governor and Commissioner, you said it
         14       a few minutes ago.  It's really key from zero,
         15       if you will, to the time we put them in early
         16       education.
         17            And we -- we've got some research that
         18       talks about, you know, what happens if you don't
         19       have quality child developmental care, because
         20       if those kids don't get it then, then they end
         21       up at 1st grade or kindergarten, and then the
         22       system has to -- has to struggle with them later
         23       on.
         24            And my final point is one of -- and I know
         25       you're aware of it -- maintaining a diversity in
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       the Boards that you have appointed throughout
          2       the state to look at this issue, a diversity in
          3       terms of women there in roles of leadership.
          4       You've already recognized that, and I know you
          5       are conversing with the local Boards on that.
          6            But we think it's very key with women being
          7       such an important part of this issue, that
          8       women -- women be present and be represented in
          9       leadership roles on local and state wage boards.
         10            Subject to -- to your questions, that is
         11       our Seventh Annual Report, and we look forward
         12       to working on that project for the rest of the
         13       year, and presenting a final report at the end
         14       of the year.
         15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor --
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- on behalf of my
         18       colleagues, I would like to thank Colonel Joe
         19       and the members of the Commission.
         20            Just to let you know, he overcame a little
         21       hardship of his own.  He was called up to active
         22       duty, General Milligan, during the course of the
         23       Commission's work this year.  So he actually
         24       served in a dual capacity.
         25            But we do appreciate, again, his leadership
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       on these issues, and the leadership that the
          2       Commission brings.  I think the findings, as
          3       they did last year -- and the Colonel is
          4       correct -- found their way into pieces of
          5       proposed legislation.  And I think there's every
          6       reason to believe that, as I've already passed
          7       these out to all the members of the Wages Board,
          8       the Work Force Development Board, that there is
          9       a tremendous amount of good information within
         10       this document that will help us as the Wages,
         11       Work Force Development Board at the state
         12       level.
         13            But most importantly, those regional
         14       Work Force Development Boards, who are now
         15       looking at the issues of welfare to work, and
         16       making certain that people have appropriate
         17       opportunities, not just for training,
         18       retraining, and job placement, but also those
         19       services such as transportation and --
         20            COLONEL JOE:  That's right.
         21            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- most certainly the
         22       one we've discussed at greatest length on all of
         23       these Boards is appropriate child care.
         24            So we appreciate everything that you and
         25       the members of the Commission continue to do for
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       us, Colonel.
          2            Thanks, Governor.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Colonel, I want to
          4       thank you.  I think it's a very, very strong and
          5       very good report.  I think -- just a couple of
          6       points.
          7            You spell out that we've passed a major
          8       wages bill.  It -- it was passed, assuming
          9       certain things.  I think to continue to look at
         10       some of those dates in regard to whether
         11       two years is enough, or four years, we need to
         12       recognize that there was no exact science when
         13       we did that.
         14            What we really did, more than anything
         15       else, was we blew up a system that didn't work,
         16       that we knew didn't work, and we have put
         17       something in place.
         18            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We need to be able to
         20       fine-tune that.  I thank you and your Board for
         21       bringing this to our attention.
         22            I hope you will continue with your Board to
         23       look and bring us -- and bring the Legislature
         24       back facts and information that show how we
         25       should fine-tune this, number one.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Number two, I am just delighted to see the
          2       emphasis that you've placed on affordable,
          3       quality child care.  Having said those words,
          4       and I think they are the key, and if you talk to
          5       any mom, you will find that that's the key.
          6       They literally are an oxymoron right now --
          7            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- to say that there is
          9       such a thing as affordable, quality child
         10       care --
         11            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- for the vast majority
         13       of our people.
         14            Now, we have put in a big pot of money for
         15       the wages day care.  I would like to say that it
         16       would be quality day care.  I'm not sure of that
         17       at all.
         18            In fact, I doubt if it will be to start
         19       with, but we need to continue to emphasize that.
         20            I see good legislative support right now,
         21       or recognition.  And this report helps us give
         22       the ammunition to continue that, that this is
         23       essential.  Without that, you don't -- wages
         24       cannot progress.
         25            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I hope though that the
          2       public will be mindful, and the Legislature
          3       will, there are two pots of day care money.  The
          4       one for wages we're doing out of the monies that
          5       we're getting from the Federal government and
          6       the block grant.  So that's not any sort of
          7       taking money away from anything else.
          8            In addition to that, in our budget, we put
          9       in a large increment of money for the working --
         10       subsidized day care for the working moms, to try
         11       to carry that up to where we would cover
         12       70 percent of the waiting list.
         13            I'm sure it's like most waiting lists.  If
         14       you went to 100 percent, the waiting list would
         15       probably be 7-- you know, very long again.
         16            But, that piece is as important as the
         17       piece for wages, because these are the moms that
         18       are out there every day --
         19            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- the lady that you're
         21       talking about, in spite of all the adverse
         22       conditions, they are trying to work, trying to
         23       stay on the job.  And if we don't do something
         24       to help them, we're really shooting ourselves in
         25       the foot, and the others.  So that's very
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1       important.
          2            Thank you very much for --
          3            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- and your Board, and I
          5       hope you'll express our appreciation to them.
          6            COLONEL JOE:  Yes, sir.  Thank you.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  We've had a
          8       motion and a second.
          9            Without objection, the report is accepted.
         10            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you.  That concludes --
         11            (The State Board of Career Education Agenda
         12       was concluded.)
         13                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Now we'll go
          2       back then to the Fiscal Accounting Information
          3       Board.
          4            MR. YOUNG:  Good morning, Governor, members
          5       of the Cabinet.  Martin Young, Secretary, Fiscal
          6       Accounting Information Board.  We have two items
          7       before you.
          8            Item 1 is the approval of the minutes,
          9       November 19th, 1996.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         11            TREASURER NELSON:  Second.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         13            Without objection, it's approved.
         14            MR. YOUNG:  Item 2, approval of the 1996
         15       famous annual report.
         16            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
         17            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And I second it.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         19            Without objection, that's approved.
         20            MR. YOUNG:  Thank you, Governor.  That
         21       concludes the agenda.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         23            (The Fiscal Accounting Information Board
         24       Agenda was concluded.)
         25                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  State Board of
          2       Administration.
          3            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 1 is approval of
          4       the minutes of the meeting held on January 28th.
          5            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          8            Without objection, they're approved.
          9            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 2 is the initial
         10       appointment and reappointment of two members of
         11       the Investment Advisory Council.
         12            TREASURER NELSON:  Motion.
         13            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And I second it.
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         15            Without objection, that's approved.
         16            MR. HERNDON:  Item number 3 is reports by
         17       the Executive Director for the months of
         18       December and January -- December '96 and
         19       January '97.
         20            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And second.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         23            Without objection, that's approved.
         24            MR. HERNDON:  That's completes the agenda.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                February 25, 1997
          1            (The State Board of Administration Agenda
          2       was concluded.)
          3                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Division of
          2       Bond Finance.
          3            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 1 is minutes of
          4       the January 28th meeting.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move the minutes.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          7            Without objection.
          8            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 2 is a report of
          9       award of ten million two hundred forty-five
         10       thousand University of South Florida Housing
         11       Revenue Bonds.
         12            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         15            Without objection, that's approved.
         16            MR. WATKINS:  I'd like to skip to Item 4 at
         17       this point.
         18            Item 4 is a report of award of bonds issued
         19       on behalf of the Florida Housing Finance
         20       Agency.  The bonds were sold through negotiated
         21       sale at the request of the Housing Agency in
         22       November and December of 1986 for various
         23       multifamily housing projects, and the results of
         24       the sales are reported in Items 4 a) through f).
         25            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --
          2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second Items a)
          3       through f).
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- seconded.
          5            Without objection Items 4 through -- a)
          6       through f) are approved.
          7            MR. WATKINS:  Going back to Item 3, it is a
          8       report for the Florida Housing Finance Agency
          9       that'll be presented by Susan Leigh.  It covers
         10       three things.
         11            One is the competitive single family issue
         12       that was executed in June of '96; the second is
         13       an evaluation process for all multifamily
         14       housing transactions; and thirdly, a report on
         15       the preliminary financing plans for the single
         16       family program for 1997.
         17            Susan.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Is there a
         19       motion on that?
         20            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         22            And then we'll listen to the report.
         23            Thank you, ma'am.
         24            MS. LEIGH:  Good morning.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Good morning.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1            MS. LEIGH:  As Ben said, it is a report on
          2       three different items.  The competitive bid
          3       single family, which was actually done in
          4       November of '96.  And the Division made a report
          5       at that time specifically on the sale of bonds
          6       on that transaction, which was the first
          7       competitive bid, single family transaction for
          8       the Agency since 1982.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  That didn't blow up the
         10       world?
         11            MS. LEIGH:  It didn't blow up the world.
         12            It was a successful transaction from bid
         13       perspective, and the citizens of Florida
         14       received a competitive interest rate, the
         15       Agency's programatic needs were accomplished,
         16       and the competitive sale gave everyone the
         17       comfort that no favoritism had occurred.
         18            And I think if you've read the report, you
         19       will see that everyone involved worked real hard
         20       to make that successful.
         21            There were several reasons though that this
         22       was successful that are less evident than the
         23       numbers that have been included in the report.
         24            The Agency has a tremendous amount of
         25       respect in the market.  And for over 17 years,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       without the benefit of the backing of the State
          2       of Florida, through general obligation bonds,
          3       we've structured transactions that have not only
          4       paid for themselves, but have provided mortgages
          5       for the citizens of this state that neither
          6       could qualify, nor afford conventional loans.
          7            Our clientele has been families at about
          8       73 percent of the median income.  We've served
          9       over 200,000 families through the single family
         10       home ownership program.  And the reason we've
         11       been able to do that is because of the private
         12       sector partners that we've been working with.
         13            We have Board members that have been
         14       appointed and volunteer their time, lenders
         15       across the state, investment bankers throughout
         16       the United States, innovative bond and real
         17       estate councils, advisor servicers, and a real
         18       hard working staff.  And the '96 transaction was
         19       no different.
         20            The bottom line that the Board had to
         21       consider, more than just the sale of bonds, when
         22       evaluating the real cost benefit of this
         23       transaction, were other things.  They had to
         24       include staff time, professional time, the
         25       overall up-front costs that had to be provided
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       in order to make this transaction work.
          2            And the fact that this was the third time
          3       that this particular structure had been in the
          4       market.
          5            It also had considered that this structure
          6       that had been competitively bid had originally
          7       been invented by a team of bankers in response
          8       to a competitive RFP, issued by the Agency, but
          9       that was a negotiated transaction.
         10            No matter the transaction, all housing
         11       deals must be structured to meet specific,
         12       programatic, and economic needs.  And there is
         13       not one housing structure fits all.
         14            I think the report speaks for itself.  But
         15       the conclusion of the single family report sums
         16       up the feelings of the Board.  The Florida HFA
         17       believes that competitively bid, single family
         18       mortgage revenue bond issues can be successfully
         19       competitive bid on a selected basis.
         20            There must be adequate allocation of
         21       resources, and a resolution as to how to
         22       continually access the creative talents of the
         23       investment banking community and find a way to
         24       compensate them.
         25            I would ask you on behalf of the Agency
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       Board, at the appropriate time, to accept this
          2       report.
          3            There is a lot of detail within the single
          4       family.  I think it's everything that everybody
          5       asked us to look at, and you can look at those
          6       numbers, as your staff had.
          7            The second issue, which is Item B, is
          8       because of the dialogue that was created in the
          9       process of doing the single family transaction,
         10       and because of some of the desires expressed by
         11       each of you, and by your staff, the Board has
         12       also authorized me to present a report developed
         13       in conjunction with the Agency, the Division of
         14       Bond Finance, their financial advisor, and the
         15       Governor's office on a new process that will be
         16       put in place for all new multifamily
         17       transactions.
         18            So we have done a competitive transaction,
         19       we're looking at doing future -- we are now
         20       looking at trying to do our multifamilies in
         21       some similar fashion.
         22            If approved today, it will provide the
         23       Cabinet and the Agency with more comfort that
         24       additional reviews have taken place from an
         25       objective source on the recommendation,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       specifically on the method of sale of these
          2       bonds.
          3            Enclosed is the report that WR Lazard, who
          4       is the financial advisor to the Division of
          5       Bond Finance, has prepared.
          6            It outlines a process by which the
          7       financial advisor to the Division will review
          8       all multifamily transactions early in the
          9       evaluation process in order to recommend to the
         10       Agency, and to the Cabinet, as to whether they
         11       should be competitively bid, or should be done
         12       through a negotiated transaction.
         13            When the bond issue comes to the Cabinet,
         14       it will come with our normal resolutions that
         15       you will see on each of our transactions, but
         16       also with a recommendation for method of sale
         17       from the Division of Bond Finance's financial
         18       advisor.
         19            Within this report is also the first set of
         20       recommendations from WR Lazard that the Agency
         21       is utilizing for the initial seven transactions
         22       for 1997.
         23            The Board has also -- the Board believes
         24       that this is an independent review, and at the
         25       appropriate time would like the acceptance of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       this report so that we can proceed using this
          2       process for the coming year.
          3            The Board has asked me to thank you for
          4       your thoughtful consideration of this issue and
          5       your concern that the State of Florida conduct
          6       bond sales in a manner of which we all can be
          7       proud.
          8            Because of your interest, we have conducted
          9       an exhaustive analysis of when to bid bonds,
         10       when to negotiate bonds, and -- so that the best
         11       economic deal is achieved and the public can
         12       have faith in the integrity of the decision
         13       making process.
         14            Many bonds will now be bid.  But when the
         15       Agency and the Cabinet decide that bonds are to
         16       be negotiated, we can all know that this
         17       approach is being utilized, not because it is
         18       the easier way, or because it is the old way,
         19       but instead because it is the right way.
         20            So I submit this report to you, and I'll be
         21       happy to answer any specific questions on -- on
         22       that.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Question.
         24            Well, we again want to thank you very much
         25       for the report.  Thank you for giving us an
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1       analysis of what has happened in the single
          2       family provision that we -- that we did bid
          3       competitively.
          4            And thank you for the report of how you're
          5       looking now at multifamily issues.  I understand
          6       that you're -- you think maybe at least three of
          7       those could be bid competitively.  I think
          8       that's outstanding.
          9            And I believe that -- that it is our wish
         10       that we do it the right way.  We did not feel
         11       that we could not do some with competitive
         12       bidding, and we wanted to see how that would
         13       work.  And y'all have worked very hard to do
         14       that, the Board has.
         15            We know that it is the past reputation of
         16       the Board, and the work that they had done, that
         17       allowed this to be received as it was by the
         18       market.
         19            I assume that in accepting the report, we
         20       would be giving you the authority that you said
         21       you felt you needed to proceed in that way.
         22            Is that correct?
         23            MS. LEIGH:  Yes, sir, for the multifamily
         24       especially --
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  For the multifamily.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                February 25, 1997
          1            MS. LEIGH:  -- because it is a new system.
          2       And we want to know that that's something
          3       that --
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Well, I --
          5            MS. LEIGH:  -- meets your needs.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- I think that certainly
          7       has our approval, our stamp of approval.
          8            All right.  We have a motion and a second.
          9            And without objection, the report is
         10       accepted, with our sincere thanks.
         11            (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
         12       concluded.)
         13                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Department of Highway
          2       Safety and Motor Vehicles.
          3            MR. DICKINSON:  Governor and Cabinet, the
          4       first item is approval of minutes for the --
          5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          6            MR. DICKINSON:  -- January --
          7            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          8            MR. DICKINSON:  -- 28th --
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, the minutes are
         11       approved.
         12            MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, with your
         13       approval, I'd like to delay Item number 2 until
         14       after our Item number 3 presentation.  I think
         15       it's -- probably follows that presentation
         16       better than preceding --
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         18            MR. DICKINSON:  Item number 3 is a report
         19       from the Department to the Governor and Cabinet
         20       as requested by the Controller from your last
         21       committee meeting.
         22            There are two reports that came out in the
         23       last year, the Johnson Controls report from last
         24       January; and the OPPAGA report that was begun
         25       last January, and was issued January of '97.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            And our first presentation --
          2            Yeah, we can see that pretty well.
          3            -- really speaks to the Johnson Controls
          4       report.
          5            And I'd like to say that since February of
          6       '96 when that report was released, we have been
          7       working diligently to implement as many
          8       recommendations as possible.
          9            The field work supporting the report was
         10       performed in the fall of '95, which was a
         11       particularly critical time for us, as we were
         12       implementing some of the reductions from the
         13       1995 General Appropriations Act.
         14            We do fully understand, and appreciate the
         15       funding limitations available to Florida State
         16       government, and are continuing to make every
         17       effort to accomplish more with less, yet serving
         18       our customers appropriately.
         19            While there's still room for improvement,
         20       the survey conducted by Johnson Controls did
         21       state that we were on par with the customer
         22       service level comparable to the commercial
         23       business establishment in this state.
         24            What I'd like to do is address this in four
         25       parts:   The operational part, organizational,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       financial, and technological.
          2            And let me point out that in each one of
          3       these areas, I think we've made significant
          4       strides.  And I've heard the quote, it's a
          5       journey, not a destination; and we're certainly
          6       on that path.
          7            We feel positive in the direction we're
          8       going.  We have not reached our goals yet, but
          9       we will strive to meet them.
         10            Operationally, some of the complaints of
         11       what was happening in '95 were that we had the
         12       long lines.  It was pointed out, we had some 5-
         13       and 6-hour waits in southeast Florida.
         14            Our facilities were run-down.  There may
         15       have been too many of them, poorly located, our
         16       service level was certainly lacking.
         17            Organizationally, we had too much middle
         18       management.  And we had a centralized decision
         19       making process that sometimes was a little
         20       cumbersome in getting our decisions made.
         21            Financially, the Johnson Controls report
         22       pointed out some savings that could be
         23       accomplished through the merger.  We also would
         24       like to point out some departmental savings that
         25       we've accomplished.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            And there were some comments in the report
          2       about how heavy we were at the top of our
          3       ladder.  And we want to point out what that
          4       personnel actually accomplish here in our
          5       headquarters, and some of the information behind
          6       what they do.
          7            Technologically, we want to talk to you
          8       about some state of the art things that we're
          9       doing out there from the database rewrite, and
         10       merging, to some applications.
         11            The first thing we really tried to do was
         12       address our access and availability.
         13            We are now serving all customers that are
         14       in our offices before closing time.  Previously
         15       at 6:00 o'clock --
         16            General, you'll probably remember this.
         17            -- whoever was in line, but not handled
         18       were thrown out the door and asked to come back
         19       tomorrow.
         20            We've installed appropriate information --
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I don't
         22       remember that, Fred.  I don't remember that at
         23       all.
         24            MR. DICKINSON:  We've installed appropriate
         25       and informational signage at the offices, which
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       was one of the complaints of the
          2       Johnson Controls report.  And those are our
          3       multilingual all over our state.
          4            We had a parking issue, where the folks in
          5       the offices were taking the prime parking
          6       spaces, the employees.  We've corrected that
          7       situation.
          8            We have provided Internet access to our
          9       driver license information on our home page.
         10       And I'm happy to say, we've had about
         11       1.1 million visits in the last year to that
         12       home page.
         13            Additionally, we have implemented a mail-in
         14       address change program where you don't have to
         15       come into the office.
         16            We've extended our service in a number of
         17       areas.  As you know, we're from Tuesday to
         18       Friday shops in most areas.  We've opened on
         19       Monday in a number of areas.  We now have nine
         20       openings on Saturdays in the southeast corridor,
         21       northeast, and central Florida.  Those have been
         22       positive.
         23            We had one office that did close down,
         24       because we just couldn't get the people in there
         25       on Saturday.  But we are looking to expand that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       service.
          2            I might point out that we have expanded
          3       this service without any additional personnel --
          4       in fact, with fewer personnel -- and we've done
          5       it on a flex time.  We've staggered our time.
          6       So that's been a positive.  We haven't spent
          7       more money.
          8            We also embarked on a program to increase
          9       examiner efficiency and proficiency.  We've
         10       adjusted staffing to handle peak activity
         11       periods during the day, and peak geographical
         12       workloads.
         13            We've isolated office telephone service so
         14       it will not interfere with those people working
         15       on the front desk.
         16            In three counties in southeast Florida, we
         17       have a separate phone bank for setting up
         18       appointments.
         19            And I will tell you that we borrowed a page
         20       from the airlines.  We're now double and triple
         21       booking those appointments, because we had so
         22       many no-shows.
         23            So the biggest problem we're having right
         24       now is you get an appointment a week or 10 days
         25       in advance, you're actually able to go find a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       walk-in appointment much quicker.  So those are
          2       the folks that are not showing up for their
          3       appointments.
          4            We've introduced customer screening to
          5       identify situations for faster service, and we
          6       have express lines for such things as change of
          7       address and your straight renewal service.
          8            And I'd mentioned, we improved utilization
          9       of appointments to lessen our impacts on
         10       no-shows.
         11            We provided additional manpower by
         12       temporary reassignment from positions of support
         13       areas within the headquarters to the field.
         14            We've reduced impact of turnover by
         15       streamlining the employment process --
         16       employment process, and maintaining a pool of
         17       available applicants.
         18            Basically we've got a pool available when a
         19       vacancy arises, and it's a little quicker to
         20       fill that vacancy than it once was.
         21            We've provided more original applicant
         22       processing productivity by group testing for
         23       written and driving skills.  We tried that when
         24       we had the immigration situation from Cuba a
         25       couple of years ago, and it's been a real plus.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Basically we can use one or two examiners
          2       to examine 50 or 60 people at a time, as opposed
          3       to having one examiner one-on-one with those
          4       people.
          5            We have relieved overcrowding in some areas
          6       by using the FLOWmobile, which is our Florida
          7       Licensing on Wheels.  That was arrived at as a
          8       partnership through -- with PRIDE, who
          9       refurbished the buses that were donated to us by
         10       some of the school districts, as well as some of
         11       our other partners.
         12            We've utilized positions normally allocated
         13       to nonlicensing activities to direct customer
         14       service delivery, as time is available.
         15            We have minimized the impact of our '95
         16       budget req-- the budget reductions by
         17       streamlining our record keepings function here
         18       in headquarters.
         19            The next item is our technology and
         20       contracts for better service.  We've implemented
         21       a pilot credit card reinstatement fee via
         22       telephone.
         23            If you have a D6, you haven't paid your
         24       ticket from out of state or out of county, you
         25       can now call us, pay with a credit card your
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       traffic ticket, and get reinstated.
          2            It used to be you had to show up back at
          3       that -- typically back at that court, or that
          4       clerk of the court to pay that.
          5            We've redistributed our computer equipment
          6       to maximize productivity utilization --
          7       productive utilization.  We've worked with the
          8       Department of Corrections to provide lawn and
          9       facility maintenance.
         10            We are also embarking on an operation with
         11       the Department of Corrections where they answer
         12       some of our phones for us.  That's -- we're
         13       working on the details of that right now, and we
         14       hope to announce that soon.
         15            This past week, we completed our third week
         16       in the -- our installation of our 900 phone line
         17       for renewals and address changes.  I think the
         18       numbers this morning -- we had about 1700 calls
         19       so far in that short period of time.
         20            They do not pay with a credit card, the
         21       folks that utilize that service.  They -- it
         22       comes -- shows up on their phone bill.  So it's
         23       been a real productive situation with the phone
         24       company that we've worked out there.  And we
         25       look forward to that expansion.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            We're also doing some implementation of
          2       third party testing, for not only motorcycles,
          3       but the Legislature this last session gave us
          4       the authority to contract out for third party
          5       testing for your driver license as well.
          6            We have installed in the last year a
          7       digitized license system, which is a faster
          8       process, and enables us to take all that data
          9       field, and send it anywhere in the world
         10       instantaneously.
         11            What does all this mean?  Well, you can see
         12       the waiting times.  I don't know if you can read
         13       them from up there.  But in '95, fall of '95,
         14       when the Johnson Controls report came out, they
         15       stated that we had an average waiting time of
         16       36 minutes; we had 5- to 6-hour waits,
         17       particularly in the southeast corridor.  And
         18       that was not acceptable to anyone.
         19            Last fall, which is one year hence, we sent
         20       our internal audit team out to do a
         21       comprehensive study.  The average waiting time
         22       was reduced to 15 minutes statewide, and our
         23       longest waits, we had about 3 percent of the
         24       people that were in line waiting to get to the
         25       counter for an hour.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            We have sent our team out as -- as recent
          2       as last week.  We primarily looked at Pinellas,
          3       Orange, Duval, and the southeast corridor.  And
          4       I'm happy to report to you that our average wait
          5       time is down to 8 minutes statewide.
          6            Our longest wait, we had no one in line for
          7       an hour.  I will tell you that there are times
          8       after holidays, on Tuesdays, sometimes at the
          9       lunch hour that we're also addressing in another
         10       study right now, where you may have a little
         11       longer wait.  There are circumstances where you
         12       dictate a longer wait.  But I'm happy to report
         13       that our average wait time is way, way down.
         14            In fact, in just the last three months,
         15       we've reduced by 6 minutes our average wait
         16       time, which is a 25 percent reduction in
         17       southeast Florida.
         18            We have no more lines out the doors.  And
         19       if you don't receive service in that office
         20       before closing, one of us is going to go down
         21       there and handle the situation.
         22            We also did surveys during our studies, as
         23       did Johnson Controls.  96 percent of the people
         24       surveyed held our employees at a very
         25       knowledgeable -- or knowledgeable level,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       courteous or very courteous level, and our
          2       facilities were clean.
          3            We had adequate signage according to them,
          4       including Spanish; and, of course, the parking
          5       situation I referred to.
          6            The other area of improved service is the
          7       partnerships.  As you may or may not be aware,
          8       we were authorized last year to allow tax
          9       collectors to now do driver licensing.  And it's
         10       a one-stop shop.  They can do the driver license
         11       and the tag or titling information for their
         12       cars at the same stop.
         13            We've got five collectors that are
         14       currently handling that service for us.  We have
         15       five that are coming on-line within the next
         16       several months.
         17            We've got a little bit of equipment problem
         18       right now that we're trying to work out.
         19       I think that'll be solved pretty soon, and we
         20       should be able to bring more and more on-line.
         21       About 65 percent of the tax collectors are
         22       interested in this.
         23            As I mentioned, the partnership with
         24       Department of Corrections seems to be working
         25       out nicely.  That's both in the maintenance
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       area, as well as the answering of phones.
          2            We have discussions going on with our
          3       emissions vendors in those six nonattainment
          4       counties where we do emissions testing about
          5       taking over third party, not only testing, but
          6       also driver licensing in their facility.
          7            I want to shift to the organizational side
          8       of the Johnson Controls report quickly.  The
          9       problem was too many layers.
         10            We have taken action as of January of this
         11       year.  We have cut from seven to three layers in
         12       the reporting cycle, or chain of command from
         13       the driver license examiner, which is our field
         14       representative; all the way to the director.
         15            We went from, as I said, seven to three.
         16       We cut out all of our assistant directors,
         17       assistant bureau chiefs, regional, and assistant
         18       regional administrators.
         19            We have reassigned a number of people to
         20       the field from not only headquarters, but also
         21       those folks that were in the chain of command at
         22       the field level that may have not been actually
         23       in the customer service area, they were in
         24       training, or in administration of some type.
         25            I might add, we've also taken the bureau
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       chiefs that handle field operations, which is, I
          2       think, one of the largest bureaus in state
          3       government, it's about 1,000 strong.  We now
          4       have -- the bureau chiefs are in the field.
          5            Gainesville, Orlando, and Miami are the
          6       homes for our new bureau chiefs as of last
          7       month.  It's an effort to try to push that
          8       decision making out.
          9            And we're trying to demonstrate to our
         10       folks that, you know, we've got somebody out
         11       there now that can give us your concerns.
         12       And -- in a direct line, direct fashion.
         13            This also follows in a pattern we've done,
         14       if you'll remember, the Florida Highway Patrol,
         15       the Director of the Highway Patrol now resides
         16       in Miami.  So -- and that has worked
         17       beautifully.
         18            I will tell you, with today's communication
         19       and transportation links, I don't think we've
         20       lost a thing.
         21            But anyway, we have moved our bureau chiefs
         22       to the field.  Commensurate with that is our
         23       decision to reassign some of these former
         24       management decisions.  And that was about 18 to
         25       20, I believe, went to the front line.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            The next area that I'd like to address is
          2       the financial impact.  And this was really
          3       critical to the report.
          4            The Johnson Controls recommendation was to
          5       close 140 offices, and open 60 super centers.
          6       That was a negative -- would have saved
          7       24 million dollars.
          8            A technology enhancement, which would have
          9       pumped 10 million dollars back in, and some
         10       severance and buy-outs of our current leased
         11       facilities, which would have been another
         12       4 million dollars, estimated it would have cost
         13       us.
         14            They also suggested some privatization
         15       efforts that would have saved us 10 million
         16       dollars.
         17            There were some additional cuts that came
         18       from our 25 percent reduction exercise, as it's
         19       been characterized in the Senate of a couple of
         20       years ago, which brings the savings up to over a
         21       ten-year period, 102 million dollars.
         22            Now, we're all in this process of cutting,
         23       trying to do more with less.  I will tell you
         24       that that is commensurate with what we have done
         25       out there at Highway Safety.  In that particular
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       year that the report was formulated, we took
          2       some 40 -- well, 4.2 million dollars and about
          3       167 positions.  Those were primarily from the
          4       field.
          5            We worked with the Governor's office and
          6       OPB, and readjusted some 56 of our headquarters
          7       people out there, which softened the impact on
          8       the customer service that we're trying to offer.
          9            The next item was also a 1.6 million dollar
         10       savings of 53 FHP personnel.  Those were
         11       accomplished through the consolidation of our
         12       radio dispatch function.  We went from 43
         13       offices to 29 offices statewide where we
         14       currently dispatch.
         15            We are working with the Department of
         16       Transportation, and Tim Moore at the Department
         17       of Law Enforcement.  Tim's kind of spearheading
         18       this thing on a consolidated dispatch for all
         19       statewide law enforcement.  And I think you'll
         20       see some more savings in that area.
         21            In addition, we have had some 38 million
         22       dollars in cuts, and 237 positions over the last
         23       eight years.  And added up, that total over
         24       10 years is 438 million that we should be
         25       saving -- we will be saving -- we are saving the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       taxpayers, as we speak.
          2            So the cuts discussed in the
          3       Johnson Controls report, I think, are consistent
          4       with what we have done, what we will continue to
          5       do out at the Department.
          6            The next chart we have will show you the
          7       cut list that we have right now before the
          8       Senate and the House.  The Senate is primarily a
          9       little stronger than the House position because
         10       they asked for a straight 10 percent cut.
         11            The House asked for a more generic, give us
         12       your idea of where some of these cuts can been
         13       realized, inefficiences in your Department.
         14       They didn't have a target for us to reach.
         15            There were some comments in the
         16       Johnson Controls report about our headquarters
         17       versus field personnel.  We're about
         18       70/30 field, 70 headquarters, 30 percent
         19       delineated.
         20            Our cuts distribution is more on a 60/40.
         21       We've tried to, as I said, soften the burden,
         22       soften the cut, soften the blow out in our field
         23       offices.
         24            Most support from the headquarters
         25       positions accomplishes what other agencies are
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       also about that are interested in highway safety
          2       and public safety in general.
          3            We have a number of people who are
          4       dedicated to the Kirkman data center, as you
          5       see, 225.  That primarily provides information
          6       to a number of agencies and their efforts to do
          7       their job.
          8            We have some 215 that are in the records
          9       section.  I will tell you, there's a -- I saw
         10       Fred Baggett in here earlier.  There's a joint
         11       operation going on with the clerk of the courts
         12       right now.  And they are funding a backbone
         13       network that will take the uniform traffic
         14       citation system and condense it.  So we should
         15       be able to realize some savings there.
         16            The next -- two of the next three items,
         17       the registration -- people who handle the
         18       registration from the tax collectors, as well as
         19       the microfilm item on the bottom, will be
         20       addressed in the final agenda item; the Peat,
         21       Marwick report that was also suggested by the
         22       OPPAGA report that'll also be talked about.
         23            That will be handled there.  It's a study
         24       to look into our processes, and see if we can
         25       maintain some efficiencies there.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            I won't go through the rest of these, but
          2       you can see that these people are vital to what
          3       our mission is out there.  And I will tell you,
          4       if we go through some cuts, we will have to get
          5       the Legislature to give us some relief on the
          6       statutory side for our responsibilities also.
          7            The last item, if I may, Governor, are our
          8       technological enhancements.
          9            We started in about '91 or '92 on a plan to
         10       get us ready for the 21st century.  And we have
         11       been through the IRC; we've been through both
         12       legislative bodies; as well as the OPB; and
         13       we've been before you on a number of occasions,
         14       and appreciate your help and support getting us
         15       some of this technology.
         16            I'll tell you, why don't we just go to
         17       the -- two more.
         18            This will give you an idea of our current
         19       system.  The top item is our motor vehicle
         20       database, motorist database.  We have five
         21       different databases out at the Department that
         22       we are currently merging.  That has been funded
         23       and acquired.  And that's ongoing, as we speak.
         24            The second system is a distributed system
         25       for our mainframe, and we have three hot sites
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       now that should keep business booming a little
          2       bit more frequently than it has been when we had
          3       just one site.  And in the event of any power
          4       outage, of course, we've got some redundancy
          5       built in there.
          6            The frame relay conversion is the big cloud
          7       you see.  Cloud was not intentional in the
          8       artwork.
          9            But that's basically the communication
         10       lines between the motor vehicle side and the
         11       driver license side.
         12            Both -- well, the driver license side has
         13       been funded and acquired.  The motor vehicle
         14       side is in our legislative request for this
         15       year.
         16            The final component to this technological
         17       system is the driver license, FDLIS system on
         18       the left; and the FRVIS system, the Florida
         19       Real-Time Vehicle Information System on the
         20       right.
         21            On the driver license side, we have been
         22       funded for Phase I.  Phase II is before the
         23       legislative body right now for this year.
         24            And on the motor vehicle side, we have been
         25       funded and acquired.  And that should be
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       starting next month.  And that'll be about a
          2       year-and-a-half to two-year project.
          3            The bottom line on our technological side
          4       is that we have a database management system
          5       that really reflects the state of the art
          6       management system.  That's the Oracle system.
          7            Our mainframe computers should be up to
          8       speed much better than they have been in the
          9       past.  Communication links are new.
         10            The FRVIS and the FDLIS field customer user
         11       have been -- are going to be reacquired, new
         12       machines in the office, as well as our software
         13       has been reacquired, all of which is going to
         14       make us more reliable, and give us more up time
         15       in the offices.
         16            The OPPAGA report, if I might, Governor, is
         17       the last item that we have to respond to.
         18            And the OPPAGA report -- the OPPAGA report
         19       really asked us to look at some of our labor
         20       intensive operations that we had out there.
         21       They did look at all of our information
         22       technology projects and said they were all
         23       on-line.
         24            And that, incidentally, reiterated what
         25       Johnson Controls said.  They thought we were
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       going in the right direction, they just wanted
          2       us to speed things up a little bit.
          3            I will tell you that there were seven
          4       recommendations in the OPPAGA report, and five
          5       of the seven have already been implemented, or
          6       in the process of implementation as we speak.
          7            Two of the other -- the other two
          8       recommendations would be handled in the request
          9       of our other item, which is the Peat, Marwick --
         10       to have Peat, Marwick come in and review our
         11       processes in a couple of areas, most namely the
         12       image scanning, and our process area for
         13       titling.
         14            In summation, I will also tell you -- let
         15       me run through one little item that OPPAGA also
         16       pointed out was our motor vehicle title
         17       processing.
         18            Some of our goals, we had an eight-day goal
         19       for processing regular titles that you'll see on
         20       the chart.  We are currently doing 90 percent in
         21       eight days with a 99.9 percent accuracy rating.
         22            We had a backlog just seven or eight months
         23       ago of 65,000 documents.  We're now at
         24       2,000 titles -- 3,000, excuse me.  And the
         25       oldest one's about two weeks old.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Our file transfer -- the goal was to get
          2       92 percent -- 97 percent of our file transferred
          3       from the tax collectors.  As of last month, we
          4       are at 92 percent of that figure.  We're 92 of
          5       97 percent.  We started out about 85.  So we're
          6       moving nicely in that area also.
          7            Fast title is another area, which, as
          8       you're aware, the law requires us to provide
          9       fast title within five days of submission to our
         10       office.
         11            The five-day goal has been met by
         12       95 percent.  We do have some titles that we need
         13       extra information on, or there may be a mistake
         14       in the -- some of the paperwork, and that throws
         15       it back in the miscellaneous category, which we
         16       have also whittled down substantially in the
         17       last six months.
         18            So all in all, Governor, I would like to
         19       report to you that -- that we're moving in the
         20       right direction.  We're not where we want to be,
         21       but I'm certainly encouraged by everything we're
         22       doing.
         23            This was not a hard report to put
         24       together.  I will tell you that these are
         25       accomplishments that the people at
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles have been
          2       working on for some time, and all we did was put
          3       a little summary of their activities --
          4            (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
          5            MR. DICKINSON:  -- over the last several
          6       years.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Are there questions?
          8            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Governor, I have --
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, ma'am.
         10            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Fred, first of all, I'd
         11       just like to say that over the past year since
         12       the Johnson Controls report's come out, I think
         13       that there's no question that Highway Safety,
         14       you, Sandy Lambert in particular, have done just
         15       a wonderful job operationally of getting this
         16       under control.
         17            And I think that we can see that a year
         18       ago, 5-hour waits; and now we're down, and
         19       hopefully well under an hour.  And I think that
         20       there's no question that we're going in the
         21       right direction.  And I want to compliment you
         22       on that.
         23            And I want to compliment all the people out
         24       in the field.  Because they're, I know, in a
         25       situation where you have to do with what you've
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       got available to you.
          2            And one of the things that you mentioned in
          3       your report was the technology piece.  And
          4       I think that you're -- you're absolutely right
          5       that the Johnson Controls report indicated that
          6       you were on the right -- on the right track with
          7       technology.  The question was:  Can we wait till
          8       1999.  And that -- that is a huge concern to
          9       me.
         10            And one of the reasons that I thought that
         11       it was so important that we address the issue of
         12       the savings was so that we could put it towards
         13       the technology end.  And that was also the issue
         14       of the privatization, particularly in the
         15       Dade County area.
         16            The question I do have for you, and maybe
         17       it was something that I misunderstood from you.
         18       Excluding the Highway Patrol, who has less than
         19       1 percent of their personnel at headquarters --
         20            MR. DICKINSON:  Uh-hum.
         21            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  -- is it true that you
         22       have more people at headquarters in the
         23       Kirkman Building than you do in the field?  And
         24       do you think that that is appropriate?
         25            MR. DICKINSON:  Well, no, ma'am.  We
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       actually have more people in the field.  If you
          2       take the Patrol out of that mix, you'll show
          3       about, I think, 2,000 in the field and 1500 at
          4       headquarters.
          5            I will tell you that the headquarters
          6       personnel are not necessarily all support
          7       staff.  A number of the headquarters personnel
          8       are in the program area that actually support
          9       directly the field personnel, and/or programs
         10       such as financial responsibility.
         11            I can go through the list if you'd like for
         12       me to.
         13            But there are a number of program people in
         14       headquarters.  And even though they show up as
         15       Tallahassee headquarters people, they do,
         16       in fact, operate for field personnel and
         17       customer service.
         18            Customer service is another area where we
         19       have, I think, about 87 people that are
         20       answering the phone lines.  And those are from
         21       people all over the state, and, in fact, the
         22       nation, who call in on driver records.
         23            So I'm not sure if it's fair to
         24       characterize everyone as, you know, support
         25       administrative personnel, if you would.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
          2            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  What I -- I
          3       would like you to check, because our numbers and
          4       your numbers are different.  We say that 2150 of
          5       the 3,484 in the field are Highway Patrol.  So
          6       48 percent, or 1334 of all employees, excluding
          7       FHP -- which was not part of the
          8       Johnson Controls report, as you know -- are
          9       actually in the field.
         10            Fifty-two percent, or 1437, of all
         11       employees, excluding FHP, are actually here in
         12       Tallahassee.
         13            And that would mean that it's really
         14       48 percent out in the field, 52 percent here at
         15       the Kirkman Building.  That's a concern for us.
         16       Obviously that was a big concern of the
         17       Johnson Controls report.  And we just need to
         18       know that, in fact, those numbers are correct or
         19       incorrect.
         20            Next question:  When the cuts were made
         21       previously, they were basically two-to-one out
         22       in the field.  And this is reflected in this
         23       report of yours actually from 1989 to 1990.
         24            And I guess I have a concern of a
         25       two-to-one cut in the field versus
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       administration, and just wondered what your
          2       general comments are.
          3            MR. DICKINSON:  Well, I -- you know, we do
          4       this in concert with the Legislature.  But I
          5       will tell you that they take specific position
          6       cuts.  And then we typically come down to the
          7       Governor, to the OPB office and say, hey, we'd
          8       like to substitute some for the other.
          9            The primary cut that I think we're talking
         10       about is that 1995 -- the 8 million dollars that
         11       we took out.  And I will tell you that that was
         12       something that came out of conference about a
         13       day before the end of session, and we were all
         14       scrambling to find out which positions they
         15       were.
         16            We gave them a 25 percent cut letter, which
         17       is what they took all of their cuts off of.
         18       When, in essence, they ended up with about a
         19       3 or 4 percent.  Had they asked us for a 3 or
         20       4 percent cut, I think it would have been
         21       substantially different.
         22            We were -- we were trying to make lemonade
         23       out of some lemons that were on the table before
         24       us.
         25            And I'll tell you -- I keep saying this --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       our Tallahassee personnel are not all -- I mean,
          2       they're all customer service oriented.  They're
          3       all customer -- I mean, we have direct customer
          4       service contact with those people.
          5            So I'm not sure it's fair to say that we've
          6       cut the field by more than we've cut
          7       headquarters.  The thought process being that
          8       headquarters is not necessarily people who are
          9       just on administrative support functions.
         10            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  But in 1995-96,
         11       according to the records that we have from
         12       you --
         13            MR. DICKINSON:  Uh-hum.
         14            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  -- is that 72 were cut
         15       from headquarters, 158 in the field.
         16            So my only -- my only question is:  Is did
         17       the Legislature specifically tell you to cut 158
         18       in the field?
         19            MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, ma'am.  I mean, it's
         20       in --
         21            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  And 72 --
         22            MR. DICKINSON:  -- the budget.
         23            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  -- in headquarters.
         24            MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, ma'am.  And then we
         25       restructured that to where we took more from
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       headquarters than we did from the field.
          2            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  One -- one more
          3       quick question.
          4            I received a letter from you dated
          5       February 5th, which I would assume that everyone
          6       else received as well.
          7            And this goes to the issue of the reduction
          8       in the levels from seven to three.
          9            MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, ma'am.
         10            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  In that particular
         11       letter, you suggested something that I took a
         12       little bit differently, and maybe you can
         13       explain it.
         14            Let's take the office across the street in
         15       the courthouse.  Sandy Lambert is the
         16       Division Director.
         17            MR. DICKINSON:  Uh-hum.
         18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Correct?
         19            MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, ma'am.
         20            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Thomas Dukes is the
         21       Bureau Chief.
         22            MR. DICKINSON:  Correct.
         23            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  And Charlotte Spivey is
         24       in charge of the 15 offices under Mr. Dukes.
         25            MR. DICKINSON:  Correct.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  Now, am I to
          2       assume or not assume that the office -- I think
          3       it's B-70 that's across the street -- has a
          4       supervisor?
          5            MR. DICKINSON:  Well, I'm going to answer
          6       your question I think the way you're asking it,
          7       but be mindful that that office is now the tax
          8       collector's office.
          9            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Correct.
         10            MR. DICKINSON:  That's not one of ours.  We
         11       don't have any personnel at that office.
         12            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  Take another
         13       office that's not tax collector.  Do they have a
         14       supervisor --
         15            MR. DICKINSON:  They have a --
         16            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  -- in the office?
         17            MR. DICKINSON:  -- supervisor in the
         18       office.
         19            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  And they have an
         20       examiner.
         21            MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, ma'am.
         22            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  So would that be
         23       considered three layers, or would that be
         24       considered five layers?
         25            MR. DICKINSON:  Well, if you look at the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       way Johnson Controls structured it, it was the
          2       supervisor examiners where they started, and
          3       that's where we started.
          4            And we just took out all the suggested
          5       layers that they said take out, which were the
          6       assistant regional, the regional, the assistant
          7       bureau chief, and the assistant division
          8       director.
          9            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  So how many
         10       positions were actually eliminated?
         11            MR. DICKINSON:  We eliminated none.  We
         12       moved --
         13            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  So you've got zero
         14       elimination --
         15            MR. DICKINSON:  That's correct.
         16            We moved them to the counters.  We moved
         17       them to the field.
         18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  So when the
         19       Johnson Controls report recommended that in the
         20       first year there would be 143 less positions,
         21       are you for that or against that?
         22            MR. DICKINSON:  Anything that will make our
         23       operation more efficient, I will support.  And I
         24       think all of our people would.  We had
         25       167 positions taken that year, so -- I mean, we
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       have made some cuts.
          2            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  But that was prior to
          3       the report, that wasn't after the report.
          4            MR. DICKINSON:  That's correct.
          5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.
          6            MR. DICKINSON:  I mean, it was during the
          7       year the report was being prepared.
          8            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  But the report was
          9       specifically after -- the 143 they suggested
         10       were after the elimination of the prior
         11       positions, correct?
         12            MR. DICKINSON:  I think that's probably
         13       accurate.
         14            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  Then you
         15       suggested in the House budget that they take
         16       257 positions.
         17            Are you -- are you espousing that
         18       position?
         19            MR. DICKINSON:  If -- they asked us for
         20       what cuts we would take, what cuts we would
         21       offer up if we have to take cuts, and that is
         22       our position.
         23            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  So you think for
         24       efficiency -- are those 257 positions all over
         25       the state, or are they basically here, or --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            MR. DICKINSON:  I can -- I don't have that
          2       in front of me, but I can -- we can get that for
          3       you.
          4            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Okay.  Again, I think
          5       this is a good exercise, because since we're all
          6       in charge of the Division, we need to know
          7       what's going on.
          8            And, again, I'd just like to compliment
          9       Fred, and to all the people in the Division,
         10       because I do believe that they have come a long
         11       way over the past year.
         12            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, I'm not sure I
         13       followed exactly what we were after there on
         14       that.
         15            The purpose here, from my perspective, was
         16       to perform our function as Governor and Cabinet,
         17       in cognizance over Fred and his people.
         18            And I appreciate very much the input, Fred.
         19            I do note that you did provide clear
         20       indications of what the 1490 people do in
         21       Tallahassee.  And it is quite clear that they
         22       are not what I would call headquarters people,
         23       but are operational type.
         24            And so in many respects, you've already
         25       answered that question.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            But, you know, we do have a responsibility
          2       to Fred and his people, and I think that's what
          3       we are serving here right now.  And I am quite
          4       satisfied with what I see he has done as part of
          5       his actions to the OPPAGA and to the Johnson
          6       report, and I think he is on the right track.
          7            And the -- he and his Division are our
          8       responsibility, and I support what he's doing,
          9       and will continue to support what he's doing.
         10            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, if
         11       I can add to General Milligan's comments, I --
         12       the General's absolutely correct, for the
         13       Department to go through this exercise, and
         14       I believe other departments should be doing it
         15       also --
         16            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Yes.
         17            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- and
         18       I think it has them thinking a certain way, and
         19       it has us understanding more about the agency.
         20            And also I want to second the comments
         21       about the number of people you have here in
         22       headquarters.
         23            As I understand it, your Division of
         24       Motor Vehicles is -- is more operational.
         25       I mean, and that -- historically, you issue a --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       I'm sure your titles from Tallahassee.  And it
          2       makes no difference where the people are housed,
          3       because it's going to be done by mail anyway.
          4            And your phone service, if you have
          5       100 people answering phones, it makes no
          6       difference where they happen to be sitting.
          7       So -- and I definitely believe the Department is
          8       going in the -- in a correct direction, and I
          9       commend you on -- on really taking a major step
         10       in government to put one of your major staff
         11       members ahead of your Division of Highway Patrol
         12       in the most populated region of this state.
         13            We have noticed a great deal of -- of a
         14       better working relationship now with -- with the
         15       Sheriffs and the police chiefs because of that.
         16            And now putting your -- your, in essence,
         17       deputies to your Division of Driver's License
         18       Director, I think that has made a tremendous
         19       difference of putting them in the field also.
         20            So I want to commend you on that service.
         21            MR. DICKINSON:  Thank you.
         22            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Do we need a motion,
         23       Governor, to accept the report?
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think that would be in
         25       order.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, I will --
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  A motion.
          3            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- make such a
          4       motion.
          5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
          8            Without objection, the report is accepted.
          9            MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, thank you.
         10            I want to also thank the Secretary for
         11       working with us.  I mean, it hasn't been easy.
         12       But we continue to work professionally, we --
         13       we're going to strive to make those efficiences
         14       happen.
         15            And I look forward to working with your
         16       office in that regard.
         17            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval of the
         18       contract for consulting services.
         19            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         21            Without objection, it's approved.
         22            MR. DICKINSON:  Thank you, Governor and
         23       Cabinet.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
          2       Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Florida Department of Law
          2       Enforcement.
          3            MR. MOORE:  Governor, Item 1 is the minutes
          4       out of the -- the November 7, '96 --
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          6            MR. MOORE:  -- Cabinet meeting.
          7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          8            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, that's approved.
         11            MR. MOORE:  Item 2 is our quarterly report
         12       from October to December of 1966.
         13            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --
         16            MR. MOORE:  1996, I'm sorry.
         17            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  '96 -- '97.
         18            MR. MOORE:  1996.  I'm living in the past a
         19       bit there.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  That's been moved.
         21            Is there a second?
         22            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
         24            Without objection, it's approved.
         25            MR. MOORE:  Item 3 is submitted for your
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       information.  That's OPPAGA's report on our
          2       first year in performance based budgeting.
          3            And a lot of what you heard Fred discuss
          4       here is the exact kind of things that this
          5       exercise has -- has caused us to go through.
          6            You'll recall that when the performance
          7       based budgeting law was passed back in 1994,
          8       with your blessing, Governor, and with support
          9       of the Cabinet, we asked the Legislature to move
         10       us to the front of the line.
         11            Instead -- in terms of --
         12            (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
         13       room.)
         14            MR. MOORE:  -- appropriating us and
         15       managing our Department under performance based
         16       budgeting.
         17            They did that, and the men and women in our
         18       organization took a challenge that I'm very
         19       proud of, to take a good organization and make
         20       it better.
         21            OPPAGA just came out with their -- their
         22       first report on our progress in performance
         23       based budgeting, and gave us a good report.  It
         24       said we were on the right track.
         25            We recognize the fact that we have a lot to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       do, and there's much to be done in that arena,
          2       but we're talking about the right things.
          3            And we're making, I think, decisions that
          4       are very consistent with the way you would want
          5       us to run the agency.
          6            We looked on performance based budgeting,
          7       as we've talked before, as a way of doing
          8       business, and not just a budgeting system, and
          9       we defined it that way.  We're operating that
         10       way now under our 96-97 appropriation.
         11            And to my knowledge, we were the first
         12       agency to be totally appropriated, all parts of
         13       the organization, except administration, under
         14       performance based budgeting.  And it's changing
         15       the way we're doing business.
         16            That information and that report was just
         17       provided for your review.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there a motion?
         19            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         20            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         22            Without objection, it's approved.
         23            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Comment, Governor,
         24       if I may.
         25            First of all, I've been fortunate enough to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       visit with Tim a number of times on his
          2       performance based budgeting activities, and that
          3       certainly is an agency that has taken that
          4       effort to heart, and doing a terrific job.
          5            I notice in the OPPAGA though, the
          6       reference to some of the performance measures,
          7       including arrest rates, for example.  And --
          8            (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
          9       room.)
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- it reminds me,
         11       unfortunately, of some of my past experiences
         12       where in some cases, you were interested in what
         13       was called a body count, and -- and so people
         14       generated body counts because that's what they
         15       were interested in.  Had no bearing really on
         16       your performance.
         17            And so I think you have to be a little
         18       careful when you talk about things like arrest
         19       rates as a measure of your performance, because
         20       all you will do is have a lot of people arrested
         21       that may or may not have any bearing on really
         22       good performance.
         23            So it's -- it's a comment really to the
         24       OPPAGA question of how one measures performance.
         25            MR. MOORE:  Governor, if I may respond to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       that, he's absolutely right.  And just because
          2       you arrest somebody, doesn't mean you're
          3       successful.
          4            (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
          5            MR. MOORE:  We're in the business of -- of
          6       clearing people against fraudulent allegations
          7       as well, and the baseless allegations.
          8            And we've had a lot of discussion with
          9       OPPAGA, a lot of discussion with the House and
         10       Senate about the appropriateness of not only
         11       that point, but also remembering that a lot of
         12       times, we're a supporting agency to a final
         13       outcome that takes place in a local
         14       Sheriff's Office, local police department.
         15            The vast majority of our policing in this
         16       state is, as it should be, localized.  And our
         17       role is to help in that regard.
         18            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
         19            MR. MOORE:  If we're not careful, trying
         20       to -- trying to measure everything to the finite
         21       amount could have a very negative, unintended
         22       consequence.
         23            We start trying to take credit for
         24       something we didn't 100 percent do, that has a
         25       backlash, and I don't think that's good
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       business.  And we've moved very cautiously on
          2       that point, and the excellent point that the
          3       General made as well.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there further
          5       question?
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  No, sir.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
          8            MR. MOORE:  Thank you, Governor.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         10            (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
         11       Agenda was concluded.)
         12                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Trustees of Internal
          2       Improvement Trust Fund.
          3            MR. GREEN:  Secretary Wetherell has the
          4       flu, so I'm standing in for her today.
          5            Item 1, recommend deferral.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
          7            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          9            Without objection, Item 1 is forward -- or
         10       referred.
         11            MR. GREEN:  Item 2, consideration of a
         12       request to convey ten acres of State-owned lands
         13       to the City of Jacksonville.
         14            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         17            Without objection, it's approved.
         18            MR. GREEN:  Item 3, an option agreement to
         19       acquire 143.6 acres in Belle Meade.
         20            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         23            Without objection, it's approved.
         24            MR. GREEN:  Item 4, a purchase agreement to
         25       acquire 31.9 acres in Belle Meade, and request
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       for waiver of survey.
          2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          3            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Second.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          5            Without objection, it's approved.
          6            MR. GREEN:  Item 5, a purchase agreement to
          7       acquire approximately 2 acres within Cayo Costa
          8       CARL project and waiver of survey.
          9            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And second.
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         12            Without objection, it's approved.
         13            MR. GREEN:  Item 6, consideration of an
         14       option agreement to acquire 4.42 acres in the
         15       Avalon tract.
         16            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         18            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         20            Without objection, it's approved.
         21            MR. GREEN:  Item 7, consideration of an
         22       option agreement to acquire approximately
         23       45 acres in the Avalon tract.
         24            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved, seconded.
          2            Without objection, it's approved.
          3            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
          4            MR. GREEN:  Item 8, acceptance of the
          5       assignment of an option agreement to acquire
          6       4.32 acres in the Avalon tract.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, that's approved.
         11            MR. GREEN:  Item 9, consideration of a
         12       purchase agreement among the Florida Board of
         13       Regents, Florida State University, and Trustees
         14       to acquire .19 acres.
         15            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Move approval.
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved.
         18            Seconded.
         19            Without objection, it's --
         20            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I --
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- approved.
         22            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- would like a
         23       discussion, if we can --
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         25            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- Governor?
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            This is the one I questioned the last time,
          2       and was deferred.
          3            I am still having a tough time dealing with
          4       the amount that we're willing to pay for this
          5       particular piece of property when it was
          6       purchased about a year ago for 104,000, which is
          7       slightly above the tax assessed value of -- a
          8       120 percent of a tax assessed value.
          9            There's three lots that are right next to
         10       that piece of property that were purchased by
         11       the same person at 115 percent over the assessed
         12       value.
         13            And now we are going to pay 200 percent
         14       over the assessed value.
         15            It's kind of interesting, there happened to
         16       be an article in the paper in February 18th
         17       dealing with the FAMU condemnation effort that
         18       we supported.  And two pieces of property
         19       particularly involved there.
         20            We made an offer of 114 percent over the
         21       assessed value, in one case.  And then made an
         22       offer of 89 percent of the assessed value in
         23       another case.
         24            And in this one, we're making an offer of
         25       200 percent over the assessed value.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Now, if the assessor is -- Leon County
          2       Property Appraiser assessed value is --
          3       you know, is reasonably consistent throughout
          4       the county, it would appear to me that there
          5       should be some relationship that can be drawn.
          6            And I am choosing to draw that
          7       relationship, and I believe we are paying far
          8       too much for that piece of property if we are
          9       paying approximately 200 percent, or twice, the
         10       assessed value.
         11            So I -- I, in fact, oppose the purchase.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  General, you know,
         13       I think we all see this, and it disturbs us all,
         14       especially where, as it looks like, from what I
         15       understand about this, the University's plans
         16       are well-known what they're seeking to do here.
         17            And some enterprising speculator has been
         18       able to look at those plans, go in front of
         19       them, buy -- and I understand this parcel is not
         20       the only parcel that this speculator, you know,
         21       has bought.  I don't know who it is.  But
         22       purchase a couple.
         23            Then, of course, they're in a position to
         24       sort of demand the price.  It's a very small
         25       parcel which allows you almost to jack this up a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       little bit more.
          2            The only way I know that you really kind of
          3       test these things is you go and you condemn
          4       something.  And you let the jury decide what
          5       it's worth.  And Florida has one of the most
          6       liberal condemnation laws there is, attorney's
          7       fees are guaranteed, you know, by the state, or
          8       by whoever's purchasing.
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Yeah.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  But maybe something like
         11       that gives you some credibility.
         12            Now, in P2000, we never do that because
         13       we're very afraid, and we want to make sure that
         14       we have a willing buyer and a willing seller --
         15       I mean, a willing seller, and all of those kinds
         16       of things.
         17            Condemnation is used every day by our
         18       Department of Transportation.  They make an
         19       offer, they do an appraisal.  If they think that
         20       offer is totally -- you know, the other offer is
         21       way out of line, they simply are always ready to
         22       say, we'll let a jury decide this.
         23            Now, you want to start -- you know,
         24       I believe we could take -- we can initiate an
         25       action, I believe, from up here.  We have the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       authority even to eventually jump in and zone
          2       property and do other things.  So I think it's
          3       within our authority.
          4            And I don't know whether you're pique is to
          5       this point yet, but if it is, I would join you.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I don't know whether
          7       my pique is quite that far, but it's getting --
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- there.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I just wanted you to know
         11       that I --
         12            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, I am at a
         13       point where we have been taken to the cleaners
         14       too many times.  And we need --
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         16            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- to do something.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         18            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And I'm -- this is
         19       the one I'm drawing the line on.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And that's what it's
         22       all about.
         23            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor,
         24       Generals stick together, I'm voting no also.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  You're going to vote no,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       too?
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I'll vote no
          3       also.  I really believe --
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, if there --
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- that the
          6       first --
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- are a couple more no
          8       votes, we might end up having to condemn it --
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Well --
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- if we need it.
         11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- I
         12       think -- I'm not sure we're going to need it.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I might vote no, too, if
         14       there's --
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I'm not --
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- another one.
         17            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Well,
         18       Governor, I'm not sure we need it.  I mean --
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I don't want to allow
         20       y'all to just allow the luxury of your no votes,
         21       and --
         22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Well --
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- us go ahead and buying
         24       this damn property, you know?
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Well, I
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       think there's other ways to buy this property.
          2       I think the University could have purchased
          3       property much -- maybe much quicker.
          4            Maybe we should look at the issue of why
          5       make an announcement you're going to buy
          6       something, and then let somebody go in there and
          7       buy it on a few cents on a dollar and make the
          8       money on it.
          9            The State of Florida, I think, on all land
         10       buying, I mean, we're -- we're always the last
         11       in a daisy chain.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, I think so.
         13       General, as you know, in our sunshine
         14       environment, it's very hard for the Board, or
         15       anybody else, to kind of move like a normal
         16       purchaser would.
         17            But, you know, kind of keep your hand
         18       folded up against your chest and go buy what you
         19       need --
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Right.  But
         21       there have been some laws changed, I believe,
         22       which will allow you to do just that, as long as
         23       you keep the court records, or at least you keep
         24       a court reporter's documents of what you're
         25       doing.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Uh-hum.
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  So in order
          3       to protect the treasury of the State.
          4            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Is there anybody
          5       out there that could shed some light on this?
          6            MR. GREEN:  We have a representative from
          7       FSU here that acted as the agent in the
          8       acquisition.  He can talk to the need for the
          9       property and the price that they're paying.
         10            MR. ADAMICK:  Hi.  My name is
         11       Steve Adamick, and I'm with FSU.
         12            And I'm sorry, I -- I didn't hear the
         13       question.
         14            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  I hadn't asked it
         15       yet.
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor -- Governor,
         17       how about a question?
         18            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  -- an answer, we --
         19       we'll figure out a question for it.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, you've got somebody
         21       here to answer a question --
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I'd like to -- I'll
         23       follow up on what Commissioner Crawford,
         24       I think, started to suggest.  The need for the
         25       property.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            MR. ADAMICK:  Well, as I believe y'all
          2       know, when we started this process about 1992,
          3       we identified an area that we were interested in
          4       purchasing property in.
          5            And real quickly, that's -- that's
          6       Tennessee Street to the north, Macomb Street to
          7       the east, Gaines Street to the south, and
          8       Stadium Drive to the west, and that kind of
          9       makes a rectangle.
         10            And we're looking at trying to purchase as
         11       much property inside that area as we can with
         12       the money that we have available.  We -- we do
         13       not have enough money to purchase all of the
         14       property that we don't own inside that area at
         15       this point.  But we have enough to purchase a
         16       great deal of it.
         17            And we have purchased a considerable amount
         18       over the last four, four-and-a-half years.
         19            Obviously the University has to expand over
         20       time, and it seems to make the most sense for us
         21       to expand in that direction, rather than to try
         22       to go to the east where property is even more
         23       expensive than this property is; or to the
         24       north, because, we, frankly don't want to cross
         25       Tennessee Street.  It poses too much problems
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       for us moving people back and forth across a
          2       six-lane street.  And so that's the reason we
          3       identified the area that we're looking at.
          4            And I can tell you that every parcel that
          5       we -- that we're trying to buy is important to
          6       us.  Surely we can -- we could probably do
          7       without it.
          8            But over a period of time, I would suggest
          9       to you that eventually the University is going
         10       to own most all of that property, if not now,
         11       then, say, over the next 10 to 15 years.
         12            We have occasion where we make offers to
         13       people, and our offers are refused.  So we do
         14       not -- we're not successful in making every
         15       purchase that we've attempted to make.
         16            I would say that our success rate is --
         17       it's better than 50 percent, maybe 60 percent,
         18       65 percent.
         19            But we certainly have not been able to
         20       just -- to make a deal with every -- every owner
         21       that we've -- we've talked to in this process.
         22            As you're aware, our offers are based on --
         23       on an appraisal that's done for us.  We really
         24       don't have any control over that process.  It's
         25       done independently, and then it's given to us to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       use as a tool.  And we try to base our offers
          2       on -- on that tool.  It's really the only thing
          3       that we have to work with.
          4            We -- we can't even really discuss an offer
          5       with an owner until we have that appraisal,
          6       under the law that we work under.  So that's our
          7       main way of determining what the property's
          8       worth, and how much we can legally offer an
          9       owner for it.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Correct me if I'm
         11       wrong on this.  You had a single appraisal.  And
         12       the opening offer by FSU to purchase this
         13       property was at that appraisal price.
         14            MR. ADAMICK:  I think it was a few hundred
         15       dollars less than that.  I don't actually do the
         16       appraisal -- excuse me --
         17            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Okay.  I won't
         18       quibble over a couple hundred bucks, when we're
         19       talking about the money we're talking about.
         20            But -- so the -- there was no real
         21       negotiation.  It was an understanding that's the
         22       appraisal price, and that's probably what we're
         23       going to have to pay for it, so make that offer.
         24            MR. ADAMICK:  Well --
         25            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Yeah, I would
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       suggest that you could buy a heck of a lot more
          2       property with the money you have available,
          3       quote, unquote, by offer-- by trying to buy it a
          4       little cheaper.  Be able to buy a lot more.
          5            MR. ADAMICK:  Yes, sir.  I --
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And really --
          7            MR. ADAMICK:  -- I won't argue with you.
          8            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- hard-nosed
          9       negotiating.  And, if necessary, going to
         10       condemnation if you really need the property, if
         11       it's really a valid and supportable requirement.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And, Governor --
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         14            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- if I may, I --
         15       we -- we've talked at length with staff about
         16       this purchase since the last meeting, and we
         17       still continue to wrestle with the issue about
         18       when do you draw a line in the sand on some of
         19       these issues.
         20            Because I agree with the General, that we
         21       actually are the ones who are approving the
         22       purchase.  And as the speaker suggested, they
         23       only have so much money.  And as long as we
         24       continue to say, yes, certainly they're going to
         25       have less money to spend on other projects.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            I know the issue of willing sellers and the
          2       issue of even acquiring property with the
          3       knowledge that sooner or later, the State
          4       Board -- or the Board of Trustees is going to
          5       look to move in and buy it, which certainly
          6       elevates the potential selling price.
          7            I tend to agree with what's being
          8       discussed.  The Governor mentioned the sunshine
          9       and the problem that gives you with knowing
         10       where other members of the -- of the State Board
         11       are on some of these issues.
         12            We wrestled with this one long and hard,
         13       not just as an isolated purchase, but as it
         14       relates to what's going to continually be a
         15       constant need, I think, by Florida State
         16       University to grow in an area that is, for all
         17       intents and purposes, landlocked.  And how those
         18       prices will become inflated over time.
         19            So if -- if I'm hearing the sentiments of
         20       this body at a public meeting right, what I'm
         21       hearing is is that perhaps it is time to draw a
         22       line in the sand, and -- and look to this
         23       particular purchase as sort of a benchmark for
         24       where we're going to go on these purchases in
         25       the future.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            And I was, I believe, either the maker of
          2       the motion or the second of the motion.  And if
          3       I'm hearing you all right, I would be happy to
          4       withdraw my motion on this one, and regroup, as
          5       a body.
          6            TREASURER NELSON:  May I ask a question?
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
          8            TREASURER NELSON:  Tell me, where is this
          9       property located?  Is it out there where all
         10       those warehouses are close to the railroad
         11       tracks?
         12            MR. ADAMICK:  No, sir.  It's on
         13       Lafayette Street.  Gosh.
         14            Do you know where the FSU Credit Union is
         15       on Woodward Street?  Are you familiar with --
         16            TREASURER NELSON:  I think so.
         17            MR. ADAMICK:  Well, it would be back to the
         18       east from that direction about --
         19            TREASURER NELSON:  How far is it from
         20       Gaines Street?
         21            MR. ADAMICK:  It's about two blocks north
         22       of --
         23            TREASURER NELSON:  North of --
         24            MR. ADAMICK:  -- Gaines Street.
         25            TREASURER NELSON:  -- Gaines Street.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            MR. ADAMICK:  Yes.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Is there a
          3       motion?
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Well, I -- I believe
          5       I was the maker of the original motion, Governor
          6       But -- and I don't know who the second was.
          7            I would be happy to withdraw that motion
          8       that I made if the second will withdraw that
          9       one, and we can begin again.
         10            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well --
         11            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Why don't we just
         12       do a substitute motion?
         13            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Can't we have a
         14       motion, and second it, and then vote yes or no?
         15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I was trying to make
         16       it easier than that.  But that's all right with
         17       me.  We can do it either way.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We've got a motion and a
         19       second.
         20            Let's call the roll.
         21            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
         22       Commissioner Brogan.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  No.
         24            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
         25       Commissioner Crawford.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yes.
          2            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
          3       Commissioner Nelson.
          4            TREASURER NELSON:  Yes.
          5            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
          6       Comptroller Milligan.
          7            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  No.
          8            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
          9       General Butterworth.
         10            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  No.
         11            COURT REPORTER GILBERT:  Governor Chiles.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  No.
         13            All right.  Next item.
         14            MR. GREEN:  Item 10, application for
         15       modification of a five-year sovereignty
         16       submerged land lease to contain 126,228 square
         17       feet.
         18            Second is a modification of an existing
         19       five-year lease to a term of 25 years and an
         20       authorization to sever sovereign materials.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Motion.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
         25            Without objection, it's approved.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor,
          2       I'm -- I'll object.  I'm opposed to a 25-year
          3       lease in this particular area.
          4            I think at a point in time we're going to
          5       start to regret -- or at least our future people
          6       sitting up here -- are going to start to regret
          7       these 25 year leases.  Historically these people
          8       used to do five-year leases.
          9            You're putting this land in Clay County on
         10       the St. Johns River for 25 years.  I just think
         11       locking us in is just a wrong thing to do.
         12            So I vote no.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Note the
         14       objection.
         15            MR. GREEN:  Substitute Item 11 is approval
         16       of a moratorium on mitigation banking on
         17       Trustee -- Board of Trustees lands --
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  I want to be recorded as
         19       no also.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         21            MR. GREEN:  -- and authorization to proceed
         22       to public workshops on a draft policy that's
         23       attached.
         24            We would like to make a presentation -- a
         25       brief presentation to you on mitigation banking,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       and help explain why we think at this point in
          2       time we need a moratorium to help us address and
          3       look at the issues we need to look at in terms
          4       of mitigation banking on State property.
          5            So if -- if we have the time, Ann Redmond
          6       would like to make a short presentation.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  How long will this take,
          8       got any idea?
          9            MR. GREEN:  About 15 to 20 minutes.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I've had a chance to hear
         11       this presentation before, so I -- I have a
         12       lunch, I am going to kind of need to duck out,
         13       although I don't want to stop anybody else from
         14       hearing the presentation.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor,
         16       I think all of us realize, as was stated, the
         17       importance of needing a moratorium.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Right.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  We may not
         20       need the demonstration, but I have a motion
         21       which may or may not pass --
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, I wanted to say
         23       that I would -- I support the moratorium, and I
         24       would want to vote on that if that's going to be
         25       any controversy to it.  So --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Well, maybe
          2       it's in controversy in my motion, Governor, if I
          3       may get -- just to read that, what I'd planned
          4       to amend --
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Right.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- any maybe
          7       that could be taken care of now, even before the
          8       presentation.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Why don't you do that,
         10       and let's see --
         11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Right.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- if the people would
         13       like to hear --
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  This is
         15       given all the concerns identified about this
         16       issue, and the questions raised by the
         17       information to be presented here today.
         18            I believe it would be premature to consider
         19       any requests for approval of a moratorium bank
         20       on State lands until staff reports back to this
         21       Board --
         22            It's in a year, is it not, when you're
         23       reporting back?
         24            Or whenever you report back.
         25            MR. GREEN:  Well, the motion would be for a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       moratorium until we adopt -- bring you back a
          2       rule for adoption.
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.  So
          4       it -- so until staff reports back to this Board.
          5            Accordingly, I move that the moratorium
          6       extend to all proposals for mitigation banks on
          7       State lands, including any pending proposals.
          8       This will not affect mitigation projects.
          9            TREASURER NELSON:  I second it.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's seconded.
         11            Is there --
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor --
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- discussion on that?
         14            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- just some
         15       discussion, and a possible substitute.
         16            There are two pending banks,
         17       Lake Okeechobee and the Overstreet that are in
         18       the pipeline to date; is that not correct?
         19            MR. GREEN:  The -- Lake Okeechobee has an
         20       application before us.  It's not complete.
         21            The Overstreet bank has not submitted an
         22       application to us at this point, but it has been
         23       before you and -- in discussion with the land
         24       acquisition project.
         25            So the answer is, one, yes, we do have an
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       application on the Okeechobee site --
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  But it's not
          3       complete you said.
          4            MR. GREEN:  It's not complete.
          5            -- and the Overstreet bank has not come
          6       back to the Department in application form.
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  All right.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  So that's
          9       what I don't understand is why we're exempting
         10       those out, one with an incomplete application,
         11       and one with no application at all.  That seems
         12       pretty silly.  I mean, personally, I would --
         13            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And your motion
         14       doesn't opt them out.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  No.
         16       In fact, if it would -- I would read it to where
         17       there is no -- if it's a not complete
         18       application, it's not in the pipeline.  If
         19       there's no application, how can anybody even say
         20       it's in the pipeline?
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well --
         22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I mean, any
         23       application that's in there -- any application
         24       that is in the pipeline has actually gone
         25       through steps it has to go through, then,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       of course, I think we're stuck there.
          2            But I -- I just find it incomprehensible to
          3       try to put somebody outside the moratorium who
          4       is not even into the door yet.  I mean --
          5            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  But we -- didn't we
          6       take some action on that?
          7            MR. GREEN:  We did when we approved the
          8       land acquisition on the Overstreet property with
          9       the Water Management District.  There was
         10       discussion about whether or not the land would
         11       be available for a mitigation bank.
         12            At that time, we said that we would
         13       consider it at some later date when we had --
         14       when we had a specific proposal before us.
         15            So we indicated that we would consider it,
         16       but we didn't take any affirmative action to
         17       approve a bank, or -- or any --
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well --
         19            MR. GREEN:  -- anything like that.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- I think the only thing
         21       that perhaps -- or what I am concerned about --
         22       let me just say that -- is that if we have
         23       induced someone in by virtue of our action, and
         24       they've spent time and money, and they're in the
         25       process, and, I don't know, I think the question
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       is where does that application -- where is it
          2       ripe, or whatnot.
          3            But I feel a little bit strange about
          4       looking at some of those that might have -- be
          5       almost ready for adoption, or something like
          6       that.  As opposed to somebody saying, I would
          7       like a mitigation bank, you know, and made some
          8       requests, or something like that.  I think that
          9       would be different.
         10            Is there some way of --
         11            MR. GREEN:  What we can do --
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- alleviating, or saying
         13       where we are in regard to ones that are almost
         14       ripe, or something?
         15            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Well, couldn't we
         16       just refer it to the Okeechobee project and the
         17       Overstreet project, and not -- if we wanted to.
         18       I mean, if it's --
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  No.  I mean,
         20       the thing is if this -- if this is an important
         21       issue, Governor, I mean, if, in fact, staff is
         22       telling us that they want time to come back
         23       to -- on this mitigation bank issue on State
         24       lands, and they're going to report back as
         25       quickly as they can, I don't think anybody is
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       harmed if you have not put the application in,
          2       definitely; and if you're having -- and if you
          3       have in -- an application, which is not
          4       complete, it's not an application.
          5            I don't know how long it takes from
          6       application till the time it gets to the Board.
          7       I'm sure it's not a week or two.
          8            So I would assume if you do your job
          9       quickly, as we hope you will, perhaps the people
         10       with the Okeechobee lands, and the other lands,
         11       will be hoping you get your job done quickly
         12       also.
         13            I mean, I just don't wish -- I think it's
         14       pretty silly for us to exempt somebody --
         15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor --
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- am I correct in
         18       suggesting that both the Okeechobee and
         19       Overstreet projects would have to come back
         20       before this body for any final approval --
         21            MR. GREEN:  Yes, sir.
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- if they were
         23       allowed to continue on with the process?
         24            MR. GREEN:  Yes, sir.  That's a --
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So if, in fact, we
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       exempted them, at least for now, for further
          2       discussion from the moratorium, no official
          3       action could be taken out without the approval
          4       of this body; isn't that correct?
          5            MR. GREEN:  That's correct.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, my
          7       only problem there would be, is it fair to other
          8       people who have not put an application in, to
          9       allow somebody who's not put an application in
         10       to have a greater benefit or privilege.  It just
         11       doesn't seem to fair to me.
         12            I mean, I -- I know very little about these
         13       two projects.  I know very little about where --
         14       where they sit in the system.  But if they're
         15       not in the system, it's -- it concerns me
         16       seriously and greatly as to why we're picking
         17       out one person in particular, or two people in
         18       particular, and making them more equal than all
         19       the rest.  Does not make any sense.
         20            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Governor --
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         22            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- I understand that
         23       neither one of these two that are supposedly
         24       pending applications have, in fact, applied.
         25            MR. GREEN:  No, sir.  The Okeechobee bank
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       has an application before us.  It's an
          2       incomplete application.
          3            They've been working with the
          4       Water Management District to complete the
          5       mitigation banking permit with them before they
          6       bring it back to us.  We gave them concep-- you
          7       gave them conceptual approval --
          8            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Yes.
          9            MR. GREEN:  -- a number of months ago.
         10            And so they were able to complete their
         11       application with the Water Management District.
         12       They have to complete their application with us
         13       before we bring it back to you.
         14            So that's kind of the status of that one.
         15       It's been through the Water Management
         16       District's review.  I believe they have their
         17       banking permit from them.  They need to complete
         18       the application with the Department so we can
         19       bring it back to you for --
         20            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Are there any others
         21       that are in a similar state?
         22            MR. GREEN:  No, sir.
         23            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Well, tell us about
         24       now the Overstreet project.
         25            MR. GREEN:  The Overstreet project was a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       project where the Water Management District had
          2       brought to us a proposal that would, in essence,
          3       give us the lands, if the Trustees agreed to
          4       allowing them to perform mitigation banking acts
          5       on that property.
          6            You turned that down because we didn't know
          7       enough about the mitigation process at that
          8       point.
          9            The Water Management District, I believe,
         10       went ahead with the purchase of those lands, and
         11       left some rights in the property that would
         12       allow the Overstreets to use it as a mitigation
         13       bank if -- if we could -- we could work out the
         14       details of that.
         15            And we don't have an application before us
         16       on that one yet.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, what you're saying
         18       is, then, the one in the Okeechobee, it had
         19       conceptual approval from us.  The Overstreet
         20       property -- or that has not had a conceptual
         21       approval.
         22            MR. GREEN:  That's correct, yes, sir.
         23            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  But what had -- you
         24       said we did make some references to it up here.
         25            Didn't the Cabinet make some reference to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       it, some indication?
          2            MR. GREEN:  I believe.  I'd have to go back
          3       and --
          4            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yeah.
          5            MR. GREEN:  -- look at the transcript.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Could I --
          7            MR. GREEN:  I can't --
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- could I offer up a
          9       possible short-term resolution to this, because
         10       I know the Governor -- we're back to the
         11       15 minutes that we probably should have watched
         12       the presentation.
         13            If, just for purposes of making myself and
         14       maybe others comfortable with exactly where we
         15       are on those two projects, could we move the
         16       mitigation, and at least defer those two
         17       projects until the next meeting; and at that
         18       point, take up this issue again and decide,
         19       in fact, whether to allow those projects to move
         20       forward, or include them in the moratorium?
         21            Would that be all right?
         22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, I
         23       have no problem with that.  But if somebody's
         24       going to go running in, either the Overstreets
         25       or the Okeechobee land, or anybody else in the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1       state, then go running in there now and attempt
          2       to file an application real quickly, we're
          3       getting ourself in a box.
          4            If it's an important issue, it's an
          5       important issue.  We sit here as a Board of
          6       Trustees for the people of the state of Florida,
          7       not for the Okeechobee land people, or the
          8       Overstreets, for all the people of the state --
          9            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Well --
         10            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- of
         11       Florida.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- and I would
         13       agree --
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  And I
         15       understand that.
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- I'm not trying to
         17       give anybody a larger foot in the door.  And
         18       I -- believe me, I would be in a position to
         19       review this until the next meeting, and if I
         20       found that somebody was hurrying the process to
         21       try to improve their position on this, believe
         22       me, I'd take that into consideration.
         23            I just simply want an opportunity to get
         24       some more information before I make the decision
         25       on those two.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            Again, I'm ready to move the moratorium.
          2       I'd just like till the next meeting to consider
          3       the other two projects.  That's all.
          4            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yeah.  And
          5       I think -- as I hear that -- what could be a
          6       motion, I guess, would be we go ahead with the
          7       moratorium, but come back specifically, look at
          8       those two projects at the next meeting, and only
          9       those two.  So we're not actually opening the
         10       door.
         11            MR. GREEN:  Not --
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And we could actually
         13       look at them as to where they are today, not
         14       tomorrow or next week, or whatever it happens to
         15       be.  I'll be glad to do that.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there a second to that
         17       motion?
         18            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been seconded.
         20            Further discussion.
         21            Many as favor, signify by saying aye.
         22            THE CABINET:  Aye.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
         24            All right.  Done.
         25            MR. GREEN:  That concludes the --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I'm in
          2       charge, Governor.  As soon as you leave, I have
          3       some motions for consideration.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Sure.
          5            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  I think I'm going
          6       to leave, too.
          7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  How many
          8       people wish to speak to the -- to the -- not to
          9       the Governor and Cabinet -- the Cabinet now on
         10       this issue?
         11            If nobody needs to speak, I guess maybe we
         12       can adjourn the meeting.  It's --
         13            MR. GREEN:  We had --
         14            MS. ARMSTRONG:  I can't persuade you to go
         15       backwards.
         16            I'll wait till next week.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Ever forward, okay.
         18            MR. GREEN:  We only had the presentation.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Does anybody
         20       wish -- just have the burning desire to listen
         21       to this 15-minute boring, but very informational
         22       and important --
         23            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  It's not boring.
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move adjournment,
         25       General.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Since the
          2       Governor's still here --
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Move.
          4            MR. GREEN:  Thank you.
          5            (The Trustees of the Internal Improvement
          6       Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
          7                             *
          8            (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
          9       12:44 p.m.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 25, 1997
          1                     CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
          4   STATE OF FLORIDA:
          5   COUNTY OF LEON:
          6            I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
          7   the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
          8   time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
          9   notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
         10   pages numbered 1 through 172 are a true and correct
         11   record of the aforesaid proceedings.
         12            I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
         13   employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
         14   nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
         15   or financially interested in the foregoing action.
         16            DATED THIS 10TH day of MARCH, 1997.
         19                           LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
                                      100 Salem Court
         20                           Tallahassee, Florida 32301
                                      (904) 878-2221
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.