Click here to MyFlorida Home Page  
Clear Dot Image Cabinet Affairs

          2                  T H E   C A B I N E T
          3             S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
          6                     AND MOTOR VEHICLES
          7                ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                             TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
          8                   IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
                       The above agencies came to be heard before
         10   THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
              presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
         11   The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
              February 11, 1997, commencing at approximately
         12   9:48 a.m.
         15                       Reported by:
         16                    LAURIE L. GILBERT
                        Registered Professional Reporter
         17                 Certified Court Reporter
                            Notary Public in and for
         18              the State of Florida at Large
                                100 SALEM COURT
         23                TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
                                February 11, 1997
          1   APPEARANCES:
          2            Representing the Florida Cabinet:
          3            LAWTON CHILES
                       BOB CRAWFORD
          5            Commissioner of Agriculture
          6            BOB MILLIGAN
                       SANDRA B. MORTHAM
          8            Secretary of State
          9            BOB BUTTERWORTH
                       Attorney General
                       BILL NELSON
         11            Treasurer
         12            FRANK T. BROGAN
                       Commissioner of Education
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1                        I N D E X
          2   ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
                OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND
          4     MOTOR VEHICLES
          5                       Discussion                5
              (Presented by John Douglas,
          7       Interim Executive Director)
          8    1                  Approved                 13
               2                  Approved                 22
          9    3                  Approved                 22
               4                  Approved                 22
         11   (Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
                  Executive Director)
               1                  Approved                 23
         13    2                  Approved                 27
              (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
         15       Secretary)
         16    1                  Approved                 92
               2                  Approved                 93
         17    3                  Approved                 93
               4                  Approved                 93
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1                         I N D E X
              BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
              TRUST FUND:
          4   (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
               1                  Approved                 39
          6    2                  Approved                 39
               3                  Approved                 39
          7    4                  Deferred                 41
               5                  Approved                 42
          8    6                  Approved                 43
               7                  Approved                 43
          9    8                  Approved                 89
              Substitute 9        Approved                 90
         10   10                  Approved                 91
                       CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER             94
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
          2            (The agenda items commenced at 10:13 a.m.)
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Comptroller Milligan has
          4       some comments to make on the Department of
          5       Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, thank you,
          7       Governor.  I realize they're not on the agenda
          8       today, and this pertains to really our next
          9       Cabinet meeting.
         10            I'd like to address an issue, and then
         11       subsequent to that, make a motion regarding the
         12       Department of Highway Safety and Motor
         13       Vehicles.
         14            Yesterday I met with Secretary of State
         15       Mortham, and some of her staff, regarding the
         16       legislation that she has regarding the
         17       Department of Motor Vehicles -- or Highway
         18       Safety and Motor Vehicles.
         19            And she articulated her concerns regarding
         20       the Department's inefficiencies, and the cost
         21       savings that are attributable to the Secretary's
         22       plan, and cited a report which happens to be
         23       titled How to Merge Florida Department of State
         24       and Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, dated
         25       February 15, 1996, which I happened to see for
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       the first time yesterday.
          2            And also cited an OPPAGA report, which I
          3       have not yet acquired and had a chance to
          4       review.
          5            But both expressed -- both reports
          6       expressed findings, and recommendations that
          7       deal with efficiencies and effectiveness related
          8       to the Department of Highway Safety and
          9       Motor Vehicle.
         10            And basically, the Secretary's bottom line
         11       is we need to take action now.  And I certainly
         12       agree with her that we need to take action now.
         13            The last time I checked though, the
         14       Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
         15       is our responsibility.  And we need to take
         16       action now, if action is required.
         17            If the things I have read in the media are
         18       correct, and based on what I've learned
         19       yesterday, we have been remiss in not taking
         20       action, and perhaps even negligent if we knew
         21       about the concerns and didn't take action.
         22            I would move, Governor, that we have the
         23       Secretary of the Department of Highway Safety
         24       and Motor Vehicles come to us before us at the
         25       next Cabinet meeting, and tell us what action,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       if any, has been taken, or will be taken, in
          2       reference to the findings and recommendations in
          3       these two reports; and respond to the concerns
          4       specifically addressed by the Secretary of State
          5       in reference to inefficiencies, and in reference
          6       to the cost savings associated with some of her
          7       proposals.
          8            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, if
         10       I can --
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         12            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- say
         13       something.
         14            I'm not quite sure this needs a motion.
         15       Because I think at any time, I think any of us
         16       can ask these questions of an Executive Director
         17       of an Agency that works for us.  And I have no
         18       problem at all with any Executive Directors
         19       coming before us having to answer questions.
         20            I'm probably the only one up here who has
         21       had the opportunity to also serve in the
         22       Executive Director role for an agency that
         23       reports to the Cabinet.
         24            And it's -- as I've stated over the past
         25       ten years, and twice this particular Governor
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       and Cabinet, and a former Governor and Cabinet
          2       have unanimously voted to re-- to change the
          3       entire system, the Legislature has not quite
          4       agreed with us.
          5            But the -- but I've found that whenever I
          6       was working for seven bosses, I was really
          7       working for no boss.  And so I don't remember
          8       wearing --
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I appreciate the
         10       comment.  But, nevertheless, we are the bosses
         11       right now, and we are responsible.  And if there
         12       are inefficiencies, and they are not being
         13       addressed properly, we need to get to it.
         14            And I believe that the Director -- the
         15       Secretary has his opportunity to have his day in
         16       court.  And I'd rather see us address our
         17       responsibility straightforward.
         18            And if a motion is not required to get that
         19       done, I mean, I don't care.  I --
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I totally
         21       agree with you, but --
         22            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- get on with it,
         23       and account -- be accountable for what are our
         24       responsibilities.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, I
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       don't disagree with the General.  In fact, I
          2       think -- and I used to -- I just don't think a
          3       motion is necessary to do this, because a lot of
          4       times I know I've asked our various
          5       Executive Directors questions, and brought it
          6       before the Cabinet.
          7            And I think we should not only look towards
          8       Highway Safety, might want to look at each of
          9       the agencies that report to us.
         10            A number of years back, I know when I was
         11       serving in that capacity as Executive Director
         12       of Highway Safety, two Cabinet officers were,
         13       in essence, assigned to me.  Or whatever.
         14            And I had to basically report to them, and
         15       had almost oversight.  And then it started
         16       rotating.  And even being up here on the
         17       Cabinet, a few years back, we started to assign
         18       a couple of us to various agencies to look at
         19       them, more so than the others.  And -- in order
         20       to address the various issues.
         21            Maybe we should -- we need to go back to a
         22       system such as that.  I'm probably the only one
         23       on here that's -- that was here when that
         24       happened.  And then maybe it's something that as
         25       a Cabinet, it may be -- it is our fault.  We
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       should probably have kept up more a day-to-day
          2       operation with these agencies.  Because we
          3       are -- we are the agency.  We are the -- we are
          4       the Department of Highway Safety and Motor
          5       Vehicles.  That's our -- our
          6       Executive Director.
          7            I guess he'd be a Master Sergeant or
          8       something, or Sergeant Major, or whatever --
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, he's probably
         10       a little higher than that.
         11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
         12            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  He gets paid a lot,
         13       so he must --
         14            But I don't care how we get to it, I just
         15       say we need to get to it.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think the General is
         17       right -- both Generals -- any -- that any member
         18       of the Cabinet could ask for an agency head,
         19       you know, to come before any Cabinet meeting.
         20            So we'll take that as a -- the motion,
         21       in effect, as -- as a request, and ask the
         22       Department head to come before the next -- next
         23       meeting.  As I say, any member could ask.
         24            I do recall -- and I think it was -- it was
         25       a little earlier, that the Attorney General did
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       sponsor a plan which went before the Legislature
          2       which would have created a Department of Law
          3       Enforcement, so to speak, that would have had
          4       motor vehicles vast-- I think most of that,
          5       together with the Department of Law Enforcement,
          6       and everything would have been merged into an
          7       agency.
          8            As I recall, the Legislature didn't see fit
          9       to -- to do anything with that.  And so there
         10       have been other moves about how to organize or
         11       reorganize.
         12            We will -- we will ask the -- the
         13       Department head to be before us next time.
         14       Usually they're on the agenda every time, but
         15       they're not on this one.  So --
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I can
         17       understand why.
         18            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, yes, Governor,
         19       I agree that there have been a number -- at
         20       least in my experience here, short experience, a
         21       number of efforts to do some reorganizing.  And
         22       we are on the verge of having another one with
         23       the Constitutional Revision Commission --
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  That's right.
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  That's
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       right.
          2            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- which is perhaps
          3       the really appropriate place to address any
          4       changes in the structure.
          5            But with that said, we are still
          6       responsible for the actions of the Department of
          7       Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles, and we need
          8       to be on top of it I think.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think you're right.
         10            (The Discussion Re:  Department of Highway
         11       Safety and Motor Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
         12                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Information Resource
          2       Commission.
          3            MR. DOUGLAS:  Good morning, Governor,
          4       members of the cabinet.
          5            Item 1 is the approval of the minutes of
          6       January 28th, 1997.  Recommend your approval.
          7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Move and seconded.
         10            Without objection, minutes are approved.
         11            MR. DOUGLAS:  Item 2 is the approval of the
         12       Information Resources Commission's annual
         13       report.
         14            A couple comments, if I may, Governor, on
         15       that, like to make note of.
         16            The report, I think, shows a wide variety
         17       of accomplishments by the State agencies in the
         18       area of information management over the 95-96
         19       fiscal year.
         20            I think the expenditures increased on
         21       information resources management from three
         22       hundred and twenty-six million, to three hundred
         23       and sixty-nine, or 13 percent.
         24            We are experiencing a high turnover in
         25       technology positions, a 3 percent increase, with
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       highs in communications networking positions of
          2       31.5 percent annually, and 20 percent --
          3       26 percent among applications programming people
          4       annually, turnover rate.
          5            Almost half of the State's information
          6       resource management expenditures are among five
          7       agencies:  What used to be the Health and
          8       Rehabilitative Services agency, now Children and
          9       Family; Labor and Employment Security; and
         10       Management Services; Transportation; and
         11       Law Enforcement.
         12            And almost half of our inventory of
         13       personal computers are older than 386 computers
         14       which are nonyear 2000 compliant, which is
         15       something we will talk about later.
         16            (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
         17            MR. DOUGLAS:  We recommend your approval of
         18       this annual report, sir.
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I'll move approval
         20       for discussion, Governor, and have a question
         21       for John.
         22            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I'd second.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved and
         24       seconded.
         25            Yes, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  You suggested you
          2       were going to get to the 2000 issue.  It's -- it
          3       is an international issue that we're dealing
          4       with in terms of --
          5            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- rolling over to
          7       the year 2000 and our capacity to address all of
          8       the lines of data that are caught in that.
          9            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes.
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  My concern, and I
         11       speak for many, I think, on this issue, is that
         12       the State of Florida be moving together on this
         13       thing rather than in fragmented fashion.
         14            I've talked to some who suggest that there
         15       are contractual services to deal with this that
         16       might be as expensive as a dollar sixty-five per
         17       line, with agencies who go from a couple of
         18       million lines that have to be dealt with, to
         19       900,000 up or down.
         20            I guess free market would lead me to
         21       believe that if we can as a State address the
         22       issue, because we all have the problem, John,
         23       that there's the possibility we might be able to
         24       address this thing in the most cost-effective
         25       manner possible, recognizing it's such a
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       monstrous issue to deal with.
          2            And I read your -- your annual report with
          3       a great degree of -- of interest on this issue.
          4            Could you enlighten us as to where you
          5       think the State of Florida is going on this
          6       problem; and if you have some, advise us as to
          7       how you think we can deal with this in the most
          8       cost effective and efficient manner?
          9            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes, sir.  And, in fact, that
         10       is our Item 4 on this agenda is our statewide
         11       assessment of the year 2000 date change
         12       problem.
         13            And I do believe that the State of Florida
         14       is, for its size, doing very well.  The agencies
         15       are working very hard on this issue.
         16            And what we present in this --
         17            (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
         18            MR. DOUGLAS:  -- report is a snapshot of
         19       where we are as of January 1st.
         20            And I think if we looked at the progress of
         21       the agencies in that interim period, just in a
         22       short period --
         23            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
         24            MR. DOUGLAS:  -- of time, we would see a
         25       lot of progress.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            One of the things on the cost of this issue
          2       is that because it is a worldwide problem, there
          3       is projected to be a shortage of resources to
          4       address the issue.
          5            Consequently, that and the free market,
          6       will drive prices up as we grow -- get closer to
          7       the year 2000, rather than down.
          8            We have obviously a strong -- we are a big
          9       entity for anyone to want to take on this task.
         10       So there is the opportunity to leverage -- get
         11       our best hold, if you will, from a price
         12       standpoint.  But we need to move as rapidly as
         13       possible on that.
         14            A number of contractors are working with
         15       our State Department of -- Division of
         16       Purchasing to get on a statewide contract.  We
         17       have a number of very qualified, credible
         18       vendors, who are willing to work with us now.
         19            I think the big issue for the State is that
         20       the resources that have been requested during
         21       this -- for this legislative session by the
         22       agencies needs to be appropriated by the
         23       Legislature so that we can get on about making
         24       these corrections in the next fiscal year.
         25            Many of the agencies are also doing as much
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       as they can with their in-house resources, and
          2       we're seeing a lot of progress being made.  But
          3       clearly, I don't believe, nor -- nor our
          4       assessment indicates that the State in and of
          5       itself has enough resources to handle this
          6       problem totally, that we will need some
          7       additional contract help to get the job done.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor, a
          9       follow-up, if I may.
         10            What I -- what I think I heard you say
         11       within that statement is -- and I appreciate the
         12       statement -- is that there are already several
         13       things going on.  And I have found that to be
         14       the case, that agencies are already in-house
         15       dealing with this issue, and have for -- some
         16       for several years --
         17            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes, sir.
         18            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- trying to lighten
         19       the load as we close in on the year 2000.
         20            But I also, I think, heard you say that we
         21       are already contracting for some services as
         22       individual entities.
         23            And, again, I know it's never as simple as
         24       we all try to make it sound, even though it's
         25       the same problem, the problem is different from
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       agency to agency, and from program to program.
          2            MR. DOUGLAS:  Right.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  But is there a way to
          4       recommend that we not only get on with it, but
          5       somehow pool our resources together so that
          6       we're not dealing with so many individual
          7       contractors who have the ability then to
          8       leverage the fact that we're running out of time
          9       on this thing in their favor, that we can
         10       leverage and harness the sheer volume of this
         11       thing statewide so that we can use that as a
         12       lever to drive down the cost of this thing?
         13            MR. DOUGLAS:  There is a possibility of
         14       that, although our problem -- or the scope of
         15       the issue is so large that I think there are
         16       very few vendors who would probably want to take
         17       on the whole thing.
         18            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Whole magnitude?
         19            MR. DOUGLAS:  You might have a group of
         20       them, a smaller group.  And in the case -- in
         21       some states, they are looking at different
         22       vendors to do different things.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And I guess that's my
         24       point, because I appreciate your comment.  It is
         25       such a huge dilemma that we're facing, that you
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       may need a number of different vendors to do it.
          2            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes, sir.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  But I still think you
          4       have the -- we have the ability to leverage the
          5       volume of the need, versus the number of vendors
          6       that it would take to put in our favor the --
          7       the cost-effectiveness of it.
          8            MR. DOUGLAS:  Well, I note the -- an
          9       earlier report by the Auditor General had
         10       recommended that there be established a Year
         11       2000 Project Oversight Task Force, if you will,
         12       that would help provide a focal point to
         13       coordinate this matter in working with the
         14       agencies.
         15            And the Governor's office, I know, has
         16       recommended a -- that the funding requested by
         17       the agencies be administered in one amount.  So
         18       I think we are looking at activities to try to
         19       bring that focus together, and to try to manage
         20       that in that regard.
         21            But there's always opportunity --
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Well, and I --
         23            MR. DOUGLAS:  -- to try to --
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- I appreciate
         25       that.  I just know that this is one of those
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       issues that has an absolute finality to it --
          2            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
          3            MR. DOUGLAS:  Yes, sir.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- and it's rapidly
          5       approaching.  And -- and I just -- I hope as a
          6       State, we're moving as proactively as possible
          7       so that we don't get caught up with the eleventh
          8       hour making some mammoth purchases of services
          9       because we've run out of time.
         10            MR. DOUGLAS:  I think that we are going to
         11       be going down to the wire in some cases, because
         12       of the size of some of our applications, and the
         13       complexity of them.
         14            But I believe that at this juncture, we
         15       have the opportunity to be successful in
         16       achieving year 2000 compliance with our most
         17       critical applications.
         18            The key, in my view at this juncture, is
         19       for the Legislature to appropriate the necessary
         20       resources that have been requested by the
         21       agencies, to get that job done.
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Understood.
         23            Thanks, Governor.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
         25            MR. DOUGLAS:  Did we --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I move --
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  So many as favor the
          3       adoption of the amendment, signify by saying
          4       aye.
          5            THE CABINET:  Aye.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
          7            It's approved.
          8            MR. DOUGLAS:  Item number 3 is approval of
          9       the Information Resource Commission's quarterly
         10       performance report.
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         12            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         14            Without objection, it's approved.
         15            MR. DOUGLAS:  Item 4 is approval of the
         16       statewide year 2000 date change assessment
         17       report that we were essentially just now
         18       discussing.
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         22            Without objection, that's approved.
         23            MR. DOUGLAS:  Thank you, Governor.
         24            (The Information Resource Commission Agenda
         25       was concluded.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Department of Revenue.
          2            MR. FUCHS:  Good morning.
          3            Item 1 is request for approval of the
          4       minutes of the January 28th meeting.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          8            Without objection, the minutes are
          9       approved.
         10            MR. FUCHS:  Item 2 is a request for
         11       approval in concept of the Department's
         12       additional legislative proposals for the Child
         13       Support Enforcement Program.
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved.
         16            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I'll second it --
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  And seconded.
         18            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- and make a
         19       comment if I --
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         21            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  -- or ask a question
         22       really, Governor, if possible.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         24            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  I'm taken by the
         25       privatization effort, Larry, that you're looking
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       at to try to pick up your backlog.
          2            And my understanding is that your
          3       privatization effort at this time is going to
          4       attack only 25 percent of that backlog?
          5            MR. FUCHS:  We have had discussions with
          6       potential vendors.  And the level of resources
          7       that they have to put in the State, both
          8       automation, and human resources, is such that we
          9       feel more comfortable at a 50,000 case a year
         10       level, at least to start out with, as a
         11       practical size to determine how effective
         12       they're going to be, and what the size of
         13       subsequent contracts might be.
         14            Also there's a potential, given the Federal
         15       funding, that this effort could pay for itself
         16       beginning in the second year.  So if we start
         17       modestly, there may be sufficient income that we
         18       could expand beyond that without having to ask
         19       for any of the general revenue dollars.
         20            So it seems to be the prudent, logical way
         21       to -- to get it off the ground in an area where
         22       we haven't done anything before.
         23            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  How does that
         24       25 percent then, in that prudent approach that
         25       you're talking about, relate to the 750 FTEs?
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MR. FUCHS:  They're two different issues,
          2       General.  We think we need 750 FTE -- if the
          3       Legislature approves that level.  And,
          4       of course, they might approve something else --
          5       to maintain equilibrium.
          6            Those 750 FTE would not be used at all in
          7       the backlog.  They would just try and deal with
          8       the workload that we're being presented with
          9       today, in order to keep from increasing the
         10       workload.
         11            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  So the 750 then
         12       would handle -- the additional 750 with the
         13       resources you already have -- would handle your
         14       new case load each year.
         15            MR. FUCHS:  Yes, sir.
         16            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  And not address the
         17       back load at all.
         18            MR. FUCHS:  This is correct, sir.
         19            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  My understanding
         20       also is that you have already seen a 15 percent
         21       or so reduction in the case load -- annual case
         22       load -- as a result of the Federal actions on
         23       welfare that are just now beginning to be
         24       in effect, and that you really can anticipate
         25       even further drawdown in the case load.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            How does that relate to the 750?
          2            MR. FUCHS:  Once again, we're not sure
          3       exactly how this'll work out on a year-to-year
          4       basis.
          5            Persons -- the initial reduction of the
          6       case load appears to be the result of persons
          7       getting off of AFDC, off of the welfare roles,
          8       if you will.
          9            However, anyone, whether they have been on
         10       AFDC or not, can avail themselves of our
         11       services by payment of a one-time fee of $25.
         12       So some of those individuals -- and we have no
         13       idea -- no way of determining at this time how
         14       many -- may continue to be clients, or become
         15       clients again after a short interval, by payment
         16       of the $25.
         17            And once again, I'm not sure -- I doubt,
         18       standing here today, that the Legislature is
         19       going to fund the entire 750 persons.
         20            And we intend to present them with a plan
         21       where that can be accomplished -- or some
         22       portion of that 750 can be accomplished on a
         23       revenue neutral basis, certainly by the second
         24       year.
         25            So we asked for the number that we feel
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       are -- would be currently necessary to maintain
          2       equilibrium as the outside parameter, and expect
          3       to negotiate with them as to what makes the most
          4       sense for the State overall, and taking into
          5       account the concerns that you've expressed
          6       regarding the changing numbers, and our
          7       inability to judge at this point exactly how far
          8       they're going to change.
          9            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Okay.  Thank you.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there further
         11       discussion?
         12            So many as favor the motion, signify by
         13       saying aye.
         14            THE CABINET:  Aye.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, I
         17       have one question.  I'll just bring --
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- it up
         20       real quickly.
         21            Larry, some people seem to not understand
         22       the procedure.
         23            Let me just ask you this:  If I purchase an
         24       item from a catalog company who -- who's outside
         25       the state of Florida, how do you collect the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       sales tax on that item, from the company, or
          2       what -- how does that work?
          3            MR. FUCHS:  The ideal situation is that we
          4       have either a legal or a contractual
          5       arrangement -- a legal obligation, or
          6       contractual arrangement, with the company where
          7       they are required to collect the sales tax for
          8       Florida, just as if they were a merchant here.
          9            That kind of levels the playing field for
         10       our resident merchants, and provides some return
         11       for whatever expenditures the State is making on
         12       behalf of that merchant.
         13            However, if the merchant, through some
         14       U.S. Supreme Court decisions, decides that they
         15       will not honor the state of Florida's request to
         16       collect the taxes, they shift the obligation to
         17       the citizen of the state of Florida.
         18            And since 1949, it has been the person who
         19       makes the purchases responsibility to report
         20       their purchase to the Department of Revenue
         21       individually, and still pay the tax, same amount
         22       of tax.
         23            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  And I assume
         24       not everybody does that?
         25            MR. FUCHS:  I think there are -- there are
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       three people in the Department of Revenue; and,
          2       of course, the seven of you; besides myself, who
          3       actually turn in those reports and --
          4            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I tell --
          5            MR. FUCHS:  -- make those payments.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  So other
          7       than the twelve of us who are doing this --
          8            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  I think you've got
          9       eleven.
         10            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- obviously
         11       the Legislature is not going to pass any new
         12       taxes.  Therefore, it makes it incumbent upon us
         13       to collect all the taxes.
         14            And since the Department of Revenue does
         15       work for the entire Cabinet, this puts you
         16       almost in the same position as the head of the
         17       Department of Highway Safety and Motor
         18       Vehicles.  That if this Cabinet does not do --
         19       if we don't also hold this particular
         20       Executive Director's feet to the fire -- or head
         21       to the fire, whatever it might be -- that we
         22       also may not be doing our -- our jobs.
         23            Maybe you can bring back to us next week
         24       some suggestions --
         25            What is the penalty, by the way, if they --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       if everyone else -- since we're all doing it, if
          2       other people do not pay their -- let's say
          3       someone in -- in the media decides to buy their
          4       VCR from that place in New York that advertises
          5       every week in the Wall Street Journal, don't pay
          6       any tax.  What's the obligation, what's the
          7       penalty?
          8            MR. FUCHS:  Pardon me for not remembering
          9       exactly.  There's interest, of course.  I think
         10       the legislatively mandated interest right now is
         11       12 percent.  I don't recall the level of the
         12       penalty.  I want to say 10 percent, but I can
         13       check on that --
         14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  So there's
         15       no criminal penalty here at all.
         16            MR. FUCHS:  No.
         17            But let me point out, if I might, General,
         18       that for the past year, I have been a member of
         19       a seven-person negotiating team representing all
         20       50 states in face-to-face and written
         21       communication with the Direct Marketers
         22       Association wherein we are attempting to write
         23       the basis for voluntary agreements, where the
         24       major direct marketers, major catalog companies
         25       in the United States, would voluntarily collect
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       Florida's tax for us.
          2            The ACIR in Washington estimates that we're
          3       losing about 200 million dollars a year through
          4       noncollection of out of state taxes.  And I have
          5       reported this, I think, to each of you in
          6       letters -- several letters over the past year.
          7            We are close to success in those
          8       negotiations.  I knock on wood.  I was nowheres
          9       near as optimistic about four months ago.  But
         10       there seems to be a major push on the part of
         11       responsible out-of-state marketers to -- to
         12       bring forth this voluntary agreement.
         13            And I'll be happy to report in greater
         14       detail at our next agenda.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, if
         16       I may -- may just continue.
         17            When it comes to alcoholic beverages, such
         18       as to wine clubs and beer clubs, they're really
         19       getting to be -- and I'm sure cigar clubs in the
         20       future -- are going to be -- it's getting bigger
         21       and bigger.  Some people estimate we could be
         22       losing 600 million dollars in that regard.
         23            What role do you have there, or is that
         24       just under DBPR?
         25            MR. FUCHS:  My -- this is not an area of my
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       personal expertise.  My general understanding is
          2       that that's almost exclusively DBPR.
          3            We, of course, cooperate with them where
          4       there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  But isn't
          6       also the people who are receiving those
          7       particular goods also are responsible to pay the
          8       State of Florida all taxes that should have been
          9       on those particular items.
         10            MR. FUCHS:  I can certainly speak to sales
         11       tax.
         12            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  To sales
         13       tax.
         14            MR. FUCHS:  Yes.
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Now, the
         16       problem here might be, if you can work out an
         17       agreement with the wine companies, we have a
         18       three-tier system on how you sell liquor in
         19       Florida.
         20            Maybe you can explain how we can -- or
         21       think about how we can resolve that -- that
         22       particular issue.
         23            MR. FUCHS:  Yes, sir.
         24            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I don't need
         25       an answer from you now.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Governor, I just
          2       want to point out, too, if it's a large item
          3       that's coming by truck, our road guard stations
          4       are picking those items up.
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  They are?
          6       Okay.
          7            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  We collected
          8       probably -- in the last few years, working with
          9       the Department of Revenue, probably 30 million
         10       dollars in unpaid sales tax, which probably
         11       would have gone unpaid.
         12            In fact, if -- I was recently in
         13       North Carolina.  If you look at furniture
         14       there -- I was at a fairly reputable store, and
         15       they said, oh, if you buy this, you don't have
         16       to pay any sales tax.
         17            I said, yeah, but do you know that's not
         18       really true, you know.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  They told
         20       the wrong person.
         21            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yeah.  They told
         22       the wrong person.  I said, our road guard people
         23       are picking them up.
         24            But, see, what happens, they'll tell you
         25       you're not going to have to pay the tax.  When
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       they come through our road guard station, we get
          2       the bill of lading, if there's no evidence tax
          3       is paid, we get the name of the destination
          4       where it's going, the person.
          5            Then you'll get a letter from the
          6       Department of Revenue, and they expect in
          7       evidence the tax has been paid.
          8            So what is happening if you buy a large
          9       purchase, like furniture from North Carolina,
         10       regardless of what they tell you in
         11       North Carolina, you actually are going to pay
         12       that tax.  So you're not saving that, you know,
         13       6 or 7 percent that you might think you're
         14       saving.  Because we're -- with the
         15       Department of Revenue and our road guard, we're
         16       picking it up.
         17            So -- but the smaller items, you know, you
         18       don't have a chance to really inspect.
         19            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  You know,
         20       some issues, I think, like, when you bring
         21       liquor in, that's a criminal offense.  And
         22       I'm -- I don't know whether or not your guys get
         23       involved in that.  But that's --
         24            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yeah.  That
         25       could --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  But haven't we
          2       actually -- in the catalog sales though, which
          3       are tremendous purchases, we've lost some court
          4       cases on that as far as enforcement; have we
          5       not?
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  We have.
          7            MR. FUCHS:  Yes, sir.  There are two
          8       United States Supreme Court decisions that have
          9       precluded the states from enforcing the tax
         10       collection provisions.
         11            However, the U.S. Supreme Court has also
         12       said that Congress can overcome this problem,
         13       that it's not a constitutional issue, it's
         14       merely a statutory one.
         15            And we have encouraged, with your support
         16       in the past, encouraged our Congressional
         17       delegation to support provisions.  I think
         18       Senator Graham was a cosponsor of one of them by
         19       Senator Bumpers, to try and get Congress to
         20       act.  But that has not yet occurred.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  My understanding is
         22       that -- and this came up at the National
         23       Governor's Conference, that they're looking for
         24       some kind of a -- an agreement with, I guess,
         25       major catalog companies, or whoever represents
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1       them, that will allow some kind of -- I think,
          2       virtually a voluntary situation.
          3            It doesn't appear that we're going to be
          4       very successful in the Congress.  The -- the
          5       lobby on the other side can always kill that
          6       legislation.
          7            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Yeah.  We --
          8       because we did pass it in the Legislature, what
          9       we -- at that time we called it the LL Bean Tax.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
         11            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  And -- but then the
         12       courts, I think, hit it, and we couldn't --
         13       you know, it was -- I think it was like an 18,
         14       20 million dollar increase in revenue, just as
         15       small as that -- the scope of that bill was.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.  It would probably
         17       be --
         18            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Much bigger now.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- much bigger than that.
         20            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  That's probably --
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  But this -- my
         22       understanding is if we got this settlement, it
         23       would cover about 80 percent of the catalog
         24       purchases, or more.  So it would be a major
         25       thing if we could get it.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MR. FUCHS:  That's the negotiation that
          2       I'm -- that I'm --
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
          4            MR. FUCHS:  -- that I'm speaking of.  And
          5       we --
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Uh-hum.
          7            MR. FUCHS:  -- are close to getting that
          8       agreement.
          9            Florida's Legislature did prepare us.
         10       We're probably better situated than any other
         11       state in the country to -- to enter into these
         12       agreements.
         13            A bill was passed before my time to -- to
         14       structure a settlement agreement, and allow the
         15       Department to enter into them.  So we would not
         16       need legislation in order to sign these
         17       agreements once the format is decided upon by
         18       this negotiating team.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Very good.
         20            MR. FUCHS:  Thank you.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there further
         22       discussion?
         23            So many as favor the item, signify by
         24       saying aye.
         25            THE CABINET:  Aye.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                              DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
          2            Thank you, sir.
          3            MR. FUCHS:  Thank you.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Or I guess we'd already
          5       covered that.
          6            (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
          7       concluded.)
          8                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Trustees.
          2            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 1, minutes.
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Without objection, the
          7       minutes are approved as read.
          8            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 2 is an option
          9       agreement for the Bell Meade CARL project.
         10            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         13            Without objection, it's approved.
         14            MS. WETHERELL:  All right.  Item 3 is a
         15       purchase agreement for an addition to the
         16       Cedar Key Marine Lab.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         20            Without objection, that's approved.
         21            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 4 is a purchase
         22       agreement for FSU.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         24            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Governor, I have a
         25       question on this.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved.
          2            Is there a second?
          3            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  And seconded.
          5            Yes, sir.  Go ahead.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  The -- as I
          7       understand it, this property was purchased in
          8       August of 1994 for slightly over $100,000.  And
          9       we are now paying somewhere around $163,000 for
         10       it.
         11            I am having a lot of difficulty with
         12       understanding how the value of the property has
         13       exploded at least 50 percent.  I'm trying to get
         14       some answers to that question.  I haven't gotten
         15       those answers.
         16            I would be willing to move for a deferral
         17       until we get the answers.  Otherwise, I would
         18       certainly couldn't support it today.
         19            MS. WETHERELL:  FSU negotiated this
         20       agreement, and I understand that the person is
         21       here.
         22            If he would like to come forward if you
         23       would like to ask him any questions.
         24            But the backup does reflect what the
         25       Comptroller is saying, that an individual did
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       purchase it a couple of years ago for 102,000.
          2       FSU negotiated this price.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is there any reason why
          4       we can't just delay this till next Cabinet
          5       meeting?
          6            MS. WETHERELL:  No, sir.  Because the --
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor --
          8            MS. WETHERELL:  -- closing date's in May.
          9       So from a technical --
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Based --
         11            MS. WETHERELL:  -- standpoint --
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- based on
         13       General Milligan's concerns, and possibly
         14       concerns of others, I'd be happy to change my
         15       motion to that of deferral, get more
         16       information.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion to defer.
         18            Is there a second for that?
         19            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
         21            Without objection, it's deferred.
         22            MS. WETHERELL:  All right.  Item 5 is a
         23       purchase agreement for FSU.
         24            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- seconded.
          3            Without objection, it's --
          4            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Well, I --
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Excuse me.
          6            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  Jump in here again,
          7       Governor, I'm sorry to say.
          8            This one probably is a little more
          9       acceptable.  But even at that, the price is
         10       extraordinary, and I acknowledge that there are
         11       some developments on this particular piece of
         12       property.
         13            But, you know, we've drawn some rather
         14       skinny lines in the sand a couple times, and
         15       time and wind has blown them away.
         16            And I -- I'm just continuing to be
         17       concerned about the price that we wind up paying
         18       for property when we buy it as a state.
         19            And I'm not going to ask for a deferral,
         20       but I am not going to support this particular
         21       motion and purchase.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Further discussion?
         23            Noting the objection, so many as favor the
         24       motion, signify by saying aye.
         25            THE CABINET:  Aye.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
          2            COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:  No.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion is carried.
          4            MS. WETHERELL:  Thank you.
          5            Item 6 is an option agreement for
          6       Lake Kissimmee recreation and Parks Addition.
          7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          8            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved and
         10       seconded.
         11            Is there discussion?
         12            Without objection, it's approved.
         13            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 7 are two option
         14       agreements for the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway CARL
         15       project.
         16            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         19            Without objection, that's approved.
         20            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 8, the 1997 CARL
         21       annual report, and the '97 CARL annual priority
         22       list.
         23            We have a number of speakers, some for and
         24       against; some ten speakers total, Governor.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Do you have some kind of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       time?
          2            MS. WETHERELL:  If you want to do your
          3       traditional 3 minute per speaker?
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Let's try that.  Yeah.
          5            MS. WETHERELL:  All right.  I'll call first
          6       on Eva Armstrong from Audubon Society.
          7            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Good morning, members of
          8       the Cabinet.  Eva Armstrong representing the
          9       Audubon Society.
         10            I've been involved with this issue since
         11       August.  I know most of you have been aware of
         12       it as least that long, if not longer.
         13            And I just wanted to point out to you some
         14       concerns I have about the specific action that
         15       you're contemplating taking today in moving that
         16       CARL boundary.
         17            And I understand that you're trying to work
         18       a compromise with the local government to
         19       provide them with ways to move forward with
         20       their responsibilities.
         21            But in taking the action to move that CARL
         22       boundary today, something to keep in mind is
         23       that this is land that was purchased with
         24       Preservation 2000 dollars.  And in order to do
         25       that, the staff that bought the land had to
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       certify that the lands within that project were
          2       of such value that they needed to be protected,
          3       they had a specific test they had to go
          4       through.
          5            And so in moving the CARL boundary, you're
          6       saying, well, sorry, we were wrong about this
          7       part of that project.  And I want to suggest to
          8       you that that is a dangerous precedent to set.
          9            Because today it is this county government,
         10       several months ago it was a prison, tomorrow
         11       it'll be another school.
         12            And I understand infrastructure needs,
         13       Governor, I understand infrastructure needs.
         14       And I'm here to tell you that this --
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  But do you understand the
         16       unique way in which we purchase this property.
         17            MS. ARMSTRONG:  I want to suggest it's not
         18       quite as unique.  I'm -- my guess --
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's not unique?
         20            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Well, there are other --
         21       there have been other purchases where the staff,
         22       to buy land, bought property that they said, buy
         23       it all or buy none.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Number one on the CARL
         25       list was Topsail.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Yes, sir.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  About -- way, way, way,
          3       way, way down the list was some -- was
          4       Fort Washington property.
          5            Now, on a -- on a very unique thing,
          6       because it was a foreclosure, and an item that
          7       was placed on our agenda under the exceptions,
          8       so no one sort of had much notice about it, we
          9       had to be prepared literally to pass an action
         10       and to bid on the courthouse steps for a piece
         11       of property within hours from the time we passed
         12       that action.
         13            The local people of Washington County --
         14       I mean, of the County got very little notice
         15       whatsoever, Walton County.  Nobody had any
         16       notice.
         17            We would not have bought -- I would have
         18       never voted to pay the kind of money that we
         19       were talking about that you would normally pay
         20       for the Fort Washington property way down the
         21       list, but it was free.  It was literally given
         22       to us because we were getting the other property
         23       to bargain.
         24            Now, let me just read you a little of the
         25       discussion that went on at that time.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Because when you start
          3       talking about how we're cavalierly -- or you
          4       didn't say that --
          5            MS. ARMSTRONG:  No, sir.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- at how we're making
          7       some great precedent that we're setting.
          8            Governor Chiles -- now, I'm afraid this
          9       transcript is verbatim, so it's got a lot of
         10       what's and you knows and --
         11            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Okay.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- you know, that kind of
         13       thing.
         14            Well, let me, you know -- I want to
         15       understand this a little better.  I don't think
         16       we should be in the business of buying land and
         17       managing it, even if it's a bargain, you know.
         18            It sounds like --
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Sounds like an ESPN
         20       interview --
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- to me, Governor.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Sounds like Topsail is
         24       very valuable, pristine land, has some great
         25       value.  I don't know about the other.  I know
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       we're being rushed because of the foreclosure
          2       sale.
          3            Why should we even say, even if we're going
          4       to buy it, that we're going to end up owning
          5       it?  Why don't we, even if we buy it at this
          6       sale, say we'll get the Inter-agency Management
          7       Committee to look at it, to determine what
          8       should be appropriate.
          9            I'm not sure that we shouldn't sell part of
         10       this land back off again, let the County have
         11       some.  There ought to be school sites, there
         12       ought to be -- you know, I'm concerned if we
         13       keep buying land because we think it's some kind
         14       of bargain or something, we're going -- how are
         15       we going to manage it?
         16            And goodness knows, if it's agricultural
         17       land, and there might be management, somebody --
         18       shouldn't that be in the private sector doing
         19       it?  Should it not go back on the tax rolls?
         20            Treasurer Gallagher:  I think we all agree
         21       with that.  I think it should be looked at.
         22       I mean, if we look at the history of the
         23       country, what made it great was private
         24       ownership of land.  So there probably are some
         25       good parcels here that could go back to private
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       ownership.
          2            But I am in favor of buying it, analyzing
          3       it, and letting those pieces that can go back to
          4       private ownership go back.  Unless they're
          5       environmentally endangered, or something like
          6       that.
          7            Governor Chiles:  Is there some
          8       extraordinary bargain we're going to get out of
          9       this?
         10            General Butterworth:  Yes, Governor.  This
         11       is probably why P2000 -- what it was intended to
         12       accomplish.  It's consistent with the law which
         13       encourages State acquisition of environmentally
         14       sensitive RTC lands.  We believe this is a real,
         15       real bargain.
         16            I just think, Governor, some of the lands
         17       which are being thrown in, we don't really need,
         18       but they just have to be thrown in.  And I think
         19       it actually is probably better if they are spun
         20       off later.  But it's a bulk purchase, we have to
         21       take it all.
         22            Really, the people who have been working on
         23       this from DER -- DER, Natural Conservancy,
         24       Department of Banking and Finance, Division of
         25       Forestry, this basically has been a long time in
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       coming, and a tremendous bargain to the
          2       State of Florida.  As the Director can state to
          3       us, we can't miss this opportunity.
          4            Governor Chiles:  Well, I would certainly
          5       suggest if we have the Inter-agency Management
          6       Committee look at this, and give us back a
          7       report of what would be appropriate use for this
          8       property, whether all of it needs to be held by
          9       the State, whether part of this land could be
         10       either resold or turned over to the Court, put
         11       back on the tax rolls in some way, because
         12       I think if we don't do that, all our P2 money --
         13       thousand money will be gone.
         14            You know, we're buying it -- in a lot of
         15       instances, I think, land that's very valuable
         16       for holding, we're buying -- and a lot of
         17       instances, I think land that's valuable for
         18       holding the world together.
         19            Treasurer Gallagher:  I think there's a
         20       good opportunity to get a lot of P2000 money
         21       expended back -- when it, in fact, we do analyze
         22       the property and let some of it go back to the
         23       private sector.
         24            Now, this is the gist of what took place in
         25       the meeting, before -- before we agreed to buy
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       this.
          2            I was very apprehensive that we were going
          3       to take this and -- and again, with very little
          4       notice to the County.  So, in effect, we
          5       promised them there that there would be an
          6       Inter-Agency Management --
          7            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Uh-hum.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- group would look at
          9       this property, determine this property -- now,
         10       that's been going on for years, some years now.
         11       Been all kind of meetings.
         12            And, in effect, when you say we're getting
         13       rid of P2000 land, there is -- actually now,
         14       under the agreements that they're looking at,
         15       going to be more land.  Because we're talking
         16       about buying some more land to connect the two
         17       projects.
         18            But we're going to let the County have a
         19       township that they can use.  And all of the
         20       people, all of the State inter-agency groups
         21       have looked at that.
         22            Now, I don't believe it violates any
         23       precedent, I don't think it changes anything at
         24       all.
         25            And I think when you lock yourself in, that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       once you have bought something with P2000, you
          2       can never, never get rid of a foot of it.
          3            I really think it's ridiculous that we
          4       couldn't find some of the land in Tate's Hell to
          5       make a prison on.  Tate's Hell is exactly what
          6       it is said, it's a hell.  And if you ever got
          7       lost out there at any time, you'd know it's
          8       Tate Hell.
          9            Environmentally sensitive for the kind of
         10       acreage that we have, that we shouldn't be able
         11       to put a prison or something, like -- we get
         12       ourselves hooked into these things.
         13            And what I'm saying is, I think that's the
         14       worst thing we can do for P2000, the worst thing
         15       that we can do -- let's look at -- keep our eye
         16       on what we say we were going to do.
         17            We were going to purchase environmentally
         18       sensitive land.  We were going to lock that land
         19       up and try to keep it from the state.
         20            Here we get an opportunity to have a
         21       bargain, and to purchase some other lands that
         22       we don't need, and we're trying to do that, all
         23       of our people have been involved in it, and then
         24       we come up and, oh, my God, you're going
         25       against -- you're going to break the world
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       because you're going to violate this oath of --
          2       of not taking the P2000 land.
          3            I think this is a way for us to keep faith
          4       with the County.  Now, if there's something
          5       wrong of -- either designated -- but I think
          6       we've been through that and through that and
          7       through that.  I don't think we're breaking any
          8       precedent whatsoever or setting any bad prec--
          9       other than saying, we're going to try to
         10       preserve land that should be held from the
         11       State, and we're going to try to be good
         12       managers, and we're going to recognize that
         13       local government has needs for schools and
         14       infrastructure, and we're going to not try to
         15       say we're going to buy all of the land in
         16       Walton County and take it off their tax rolls,
         17       so they have no benefits out of that.  Again,
         18       that would be very ridiculous, too.
         19            So I feel very comfortable about what we're
         20       doing here.
         21            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Governor, I totally
         22       understand your position.  I would like to make
         23       two or three brief points.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Your time is up.
         25            MS. ARMSTRONG:  You know, I get into this
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       with you all the time.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We can't sit here all day
          3       and have you monopoliz--
          4            MS. ARMSTRONG:  I understand your position,
          5       Governor.
          6            Number one is that there is no doubt in my
          7       mind, or I think anybody's mind, that
          8       Preservation 2000 is probably the most popular
          9       program ever adopted in the state anywhere.
         10       I mean, the public loves it.
         11            And they also -- if you talk to people in
         12       the public, they have a belief that when you
         13       guys buy it, it's staying like that.  I
         14       understand --
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Because you don't help
         16       us, and some of the environmental writers don't
         17       help us, and go back and don't recognize the
         18       action we took, that we said exactly what we
         19       were doing; we've been doing exactly what we're
         20       doing; and, yes -- and then you say, oh,
         21       these -- they're getting rid of it.  Of course,
         22       they feel that way.
         23            But I can tell you, they also feel -- a lot
         24       of people out there, what are you doing buying
         25       all this land?  Are you managing it; are you
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       using it; are you just locking up land and
          2       letting it grow into jungles, and some of that
          3       we're doing.  Some of that we're doing.  We're
          4       not doing the kind of management job that we
          5       should be doing.
          6            So what this good program that you're
          7       talking about, it won't have all this goodwill
          8       if we don't do our job properly.
          9            MS. ARMSTRONG:  I understand.  Just two
         10       more points --
         11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Who was the
         12       Governor's aide back then, do you remember,
         13       Governor?
         14            MS. ARMSTRONG:  That was number one, that
         15       it's a popular program.
         16            Number two, we don't disagree with
         17       surplusing the lands that were outside the CARL
         18       boundary.  I'm not complaining about that.
         19            In fact, if we could have found a way to do
         20       this -- and grant you, I didn't think about this
         21       until last night, so I understand it's too
         22       late.
         23            But if we -- I'd have been willing to give
         24       them more of the land that was outside the CARL
         25       boundary to protect that boundary.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            And it is about protecting our natural
          2       resources here --
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  But -- all right.  Let me
          4       just ask you one more time.
          5            But if something was on the CARL list, and
          6       it was number 40, or somewhere way down there,
          7       that you'd never have gotten to it, you never
          8       have purchased it.  But now you're saying
          9       because it was once in that so-called boundary,
         10       even though you pick it up in a bargain, which
         11       is given to you free, which it was, you can't go
         12       look at that boundary.
         13            Now, if you -- if I had known that I could
         14       never look at that boundary, I would have never
         15       voted for this purchase on that day.  Because I
         16       knew we didn't need it all, I knew we were not
         17       giving the County notice.
         18            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Yes, sir.
         19            And my last point is that the reason why
         20       moving the boundary today is important is
         21       because of the philosophical difference we have,
         22       which is, as soon as you move it,
         23       Franklin County and Corrections will be back in
         24       to move the boundary in Tate's Hell.
         25            And while I understand those look like two
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       very valuable decisions to make, to move
          2       forward, to me it is opening the dam for uses on
          3       any of the Preservation 2000 lands.  And it's
          4       difficult to hold that line.
          5            And I just wanted you to be aware that
          6       I think it is a precedent.  And I think it's an
          7       important precedent to understand.
          8            Thank you.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I'm a little bit like the
         10       old Methodist hymn, almost persuaded.
         11            MS. ARMSTRONG:  Thanks for hearing me out.
         12            MS. WETHERELL:  Governor, I just wanted to
         13       clarify one point.  I just asked Greg Brock
         14       who's our CARL Director.
         15            Some of the land that we purchased at that
         16       point in time was not in the original CARL
         17       boundary.  And she made the statement that had
         18       it not been in the CARL boundary, she wouldn't
         19       be feeling that way.
         20            But some of the property we purchased was
         21       not in the original CARL boundary.
         22            I'll call next on Manley Fuller, and then
         23       Susie Caplowe.
         24            MR. FULLER:  Governor and Cabinet,
         25       Manley Fuller, Florida Wildlife Federation.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            I was listening intently to the immediate
          2       previous discussion.  One thing I'd like to
          3       say -- say, Governor, it is true that the State
          4       forest was number 55 on the CARL list, which is
          5       pretty low.
          6            But my understanding of what I've been told
          7       is it was not given a low ranking because people
          8       didn't feel that there were significant
          9       resources out there, it was given a low ranking
         10       because there was an unwilling seller.  And
         11       that -- that the property -- had there been a
         12       willing seller, it probably would have been
         13       higher on the -- on the ranking.
         14            But I do -- I do want to say that outside
         15       the CARL boundary, we think that there are --
         16       there are clearly properties which -- which
         17       could be, we believe, legitimately surplused or
         18       used for exchange to fill in inholdings within
         19       the proposed CARL boundary modification.
         20            And those -- in fact, I would say that all
         21       the parcels in section 27, which total 4--
         22       70 acres; and a number of the parcels in
         23       section 28, which total another 60 acres, we
         24       think there would be -- would make an excellent
         25       surplus property.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            We have a concern about parcel Z, which is
          2       in section 28.  It has a high natural resource
          3       values, it's about an 80-acre parcel.
          4            As the surplusing process goes through,
          5       we'd like to see that -- that as a consideration
          6       that we might be able to protect the resource
          7       values on that property.  It's very close to the
          8       proposed new CARL boundary.
          9            So we believe that there clearly are
         10       parcels which could be surplused legitimately
         11       that could benefit the overall State forest and
         12       State park complex.
         13            One concern that we have is there's a --
         14       and we're not -- we're certainly not qualified
         15       to say where school sites -- whether there
         16       should be school sites or not.
         17            But one -- one thing that we've looked at,
         18       the new town center proposal, and it has a
         19       middle school site proposed in the northern
         20       portion of it.  And that's an area that has a --
         21       has a moderate -- or middle ecological value
         22       that the State people made that determination.
         23            And we think that perhaps some of these
         24       parcels in section 27 or 28 might be more
         25       applicable for a school site.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            Also looking at the -- the plan for the
          2       town center, we see that it's -- that a large
          3       portion of the town center would be considered a
          4       nature preserve.  And we think that because it
          5       would immediately abut State forest, we would
          6       think that that might -- it might be a good idea
          7       to continue to manage that as State forest.
          8            Maybe sell it, but have a lease condition
          9       if the State is the manager, possibly there's
         10       some options there.
         11            So we think that the new CARL boundary is
         12       an improvement in a number of ways over the
         13       previous CARL boundary -- that we think that
         14       there's some improvements in the new CARL
         15       boundary.
         16            But we would like to participate in the
         17       discussions that occur through -- through the
         18       surplusing process.  And we'd like consideration
         19       for exchange.
         20            And one other -- one closing comment is
         21       that we -- we're aware of the history of this
         22       property, we're aware of the purchase, and we
         23       think that your hands should not be totally
         24       bound, that you could not do some surplusing of
         25       these out parcels.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            But there are -- there is a lot of value in
          2       that State forest, and we think -- and clearly
          3       there needs to be dollars to manage the
          4       property, and we don't want to waste lands, and
          5       we support the State actively managing and
          6       having recreational opportunities for the public
          7       on State lands.  I know you know that.
          8            And that's -- conclude my remarks with
          9       that.  And if you have any questions, I'd be
         10       glad to take them.
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         12            Any questions?
         13            Thank you.
         14            MR. FULLER:  Thank you.
         15            MS. CAPLOWE:  Good morning, Governor and
         16       Cabinet members.  My name is Susan Caplowe, and
         17       I'm speaking for Judy Hancock who lives in
         18       Lake City and couldn't be here today.  But as
         19       you know, she regularly attends the LMAC and
         20       LAAC meetings, so she is very familiar with this
         21       issue.
         22            So I'd like to just read her statement.
         23            Sierra Club is very concerned about the
         24       proposed boundary change on Point Washington
         25       State Forest.  While we understand that
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       potentially the small, disjunct parcels may not
          2       be needed as part of the State forest because of
          3       difficulties in management, we disagree that the
          4       lands in the identified town center are not
          5       needed to remain as State forest lands.
          6            These lands are part of the forest, and we
          7       would hope they remain so.
          8            We also were not aware of any criteria for
          9       determining that these lands are not needed to
         10       further the intent of Preservation 2000.  It is
         11       essential that the integrity of P2000 be
         12       protected and maintained.
         13            We, therefore, request that the boundary
         14       change release only the small disjunct parcels
         15       north of 98, and that the referenced town center
         16       lands be retained as part of the forest.
         17            Thank you.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         19            MS. WETHERELL:  Call on next three people:
         20       Cynthia Alexander, Celeste Cabena, and
         21       Bonnie McQuiston.
         22            MS. ALEXANDER:  Good morning.  My name is
         23       Cynthia Alexander.  I'm a local resident and
         24       business owner in South Walton, and I'm a Board
         25       member of Beach to Bay Connection, the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       South Walton coastal conservancy grass roots
          2       group.
          3            The Trust introduced South Walton to a
          4       vision that we cannot dispel.  We, the citizens
          5       and residents of South Walton, are the major
          6       stakeholders in the fate of the Topsail and
          7       Point Washington CARL projects, and consequently
          8       the future of South Walton.
          9            And the responsibility falls to us to be
         10       the local stewards and the advocates of this
         11       land for all of the state of Florida.
         12            We support the new CARL boundary that
         13       identifies 1663 acres for acquisition to
         14       complete our east/west greenway, complete our
         15       only beach to bay connection greenway, and
         16       complete the in-fill of our CARL project.
         17            The new CARL boundary allows our economy
         18       and our environment to move forward.
         19            Securing our parks and forests and
         20       greenways allows us to move forward with
         21       improved access, and begin ecotourism in
         22       earnest.  We have a chance to do it right in
         23       South Walton, and I believe we can.
         24            It is our firm belief that the environment
         25       and the economy cannot be separated in
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       South Walton.  They are inextricably entwined.
          2            There is a special sense of place here, and
          3       we are united as a diverse community in our
          4       desire to maintain this quality of life.  We
          5       share our home with the Florida panther, the
          6       gopher tortoise, and the red-cockaded woodpecker
          7       along a coastal dune-like system found nowhere
          8       else in the world, amid beaches of sugar-white
          9       sand and sweeping dunes, framed by hardwood
         10       hammocks and longleaf pine.
         11            We can, and must, sustain our tourism and
         12       development without consuming and obliterating
         13       the natural resources that make this place so
         14       very special.
         15            Wise resource management is good
         16       stewardship.  As South Walton prospers, so
         17       prospers Walton County.
         18            Our County officials attempt to argue that
         19       the chunk of land in South Walton now held in
         20       preservation strains our tax base.  Yet an
         21       observation made by the Wall Street Journal
         22       May 15th, 1996, edition, notes, quote:  In
         23       Walton County, the average sale price --
         24            (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
         25       room.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MS. ALEXANDER:  -- of a home of $150,459 is
          2       37 percent higher than the State average,
          3       according to the TRW-REDI Property Data, Inc.,
          4       an Anaheim, California, real estate research
          5       firm.  Development in South Walton has keyed off
          6       the preserve land.  People have settled here,
          7       and tourism has grown, because we are one of the
          8       few relatively beautiful and pristine areas left
          9       in Florida.
         10            We consider ourselves park and forest
         11       communities.  Even local developers recognize
         12       the value of green spaces, parks, and forests,
         13       and the enhanced worth it brings to our
         14       neighborhoods.
         15            They know that in our area, preserved land
         16       is the number one amenity when considering a
         17       place of residence.
         18            Walton County literally received a gift
         19       from the State of Florida.  The Point Washington
         20       project and the Topsail Hill, Deer Lake, and
         21       Grayton Beach projects were purchased, and have
         22       been managed without direct cost to the County.
         23            We would like to reiterate our firm desire
         24       to keep the promise of preservation.
         25            We support the new CARL boundary and the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       careful and tough process by which it was
          2       formulated.  We have demonstrated to the State
          3       in every way possible our acceptance and support
          4       for the gift of our conservation land in
          5       South Walton.  It is the only attribute that
          6       distinguishes us from our eastern and western
          7       neighboring counties.
          8            Please remove our preserved lands from this
          9       contentious political bartering.  Please do not
         10       circumvent the will of the Preservation 2000
         11       process.  Please do not circumvent the will of
         12       the people.  Keep the intent of
         13       Preservation 2000 and CARL intact.
         14            It is an honorable, beautiful,
         15       forward-thinking endeavor.  We want to hold the
         16       line in South Walton County, and we ask you to
         17       hold it with us.
         18            Thank you.
         19            MS. CABENA:  Good morning.  I'm
         20       Celeste Cabena, and I'm a resident of
         21       South Walton, and I'm also chairperson for the
         22       Beach to Bay Greenway Committee.
         23            The Beach to Bay Connection Greenway
         24       Committee endorses the approval of the revised
         25       CARL boundary and the number 2 ranking on the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       substantially complete CARL list for the
          2       Point Washington ecosystem CARL project.
          3            In 1995, Governor Chiles, when you declared
          4       the South Walton Greenway network as one of
          5       150 greenways in the State of Florida, the
          6       community of South Walton took this to heart
          7       since we already had a greenway plan in the
          8       works.
          9            The map presented to you today by Beach to
         10       Bay Connection illustrates the plan we have for
         11       our greenway.
         12            Our State parks, Topsail Hill,
         13       Grayton Beach, and Deer Lake, are the hubs of
         14       the greenway system linked by the
         15       Point Washington State Forest.
         16            However, a more complete connection is
         17       desired between Topsail Hill and the
         18       Point Washington State Forest Management Area.
         19            A series of trails through this area will
         20       provide alternate transportation roads between
         21       the Van Ness Butler School -- that's point A on
         22       your map -- and the Helen D. McCall Ball Field,
         23       that's point C; the Santa Rosa Beach post office
         24       and library, which is point B on your maps.
         25       Also it will connect up neighborhoods and local
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       businesses.
          2            Pedestrian and bicycle travel between these
          3       locations, as well as the beach, will be
          4       possible without getting into traffic on
          5       Highway 98 or County Road 30A.
          6            This is not a conceptual plan.  The eastern
          7       lake trail is the first in a series of greenway
          8       trails.  This trail was dedicated in May of 1996
          9       by the Florida Division of Forestry.  Use of the
         10       trail has exceeded our expectations.
         11            Future plans include trails linking all of
         12       the State Parks, the sites listed on your map,
         13       and neighborhoods and businesses.
         14            We feel that this greenway plan will boost
         15       the economy, and maintain a high quality of life
         16       in South Walton.
         17            The Statewide Comprehensive Outdoor
         18       Recreation Plan, 1994 states:  Among all leisure
         19       activities, 44 percent of the residents, and
         20       37.8 percent of the tourists regarded outdoor
         21       recreational activities involving natural
         22       resources as the things they enjoyed most.
         23            The results suggest a critical need to
         24       maintain the quality and quantity of the natural
         25       resources in Florida to serve the residents; but
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       also to serve the number one industry in
          2       Florida's economic base, the tourist sector.
          3            Tourists in increasing numbers are
          4       abandoning Florida.  Ecotourism is the wave of
          5       the future, and Walton County is poised to
          6       capture an increasing market share.
          7            Total expenditures by users of the
          8       St. Marks Trail in Leon and Wakulla County in
          9       1992 were over 1.8 million dollars.
         10            One can only imagine the revenue that will
         11       flow into Walton County when over 30 miles of
         12       beach to bay, dune-like to dune-like, and
         13       park-to-park trails are completed.
         14            Once again, we ask the Governor and Cabinet
         15       to approve the revised South Walton ecosystem
         16       CARL boundary and the number 2 ranking on the
         17       substantially complete CARL list, and let's
         18       please hold this line together.
         19            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
         20            MS. McQUISTON:  I am Bonnie McQuiston, a
         21       local resident of South Walton.
         22            Many citizens volunteered to set up tables
         23       outside the polling places in South Walton
         24       during the general election in November.  They
         25       had a petition.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            And the petition reads in part:  We, the
          2       undersigned, respectfully petition the Governor
          3       and Cabinet members to listen to the people.
          4       Please keep the promise of preservation, and
          5       maintain the integrity of Preservation 2000 and
          6       the CARL program.
          7            There are over 1500 signatures on these
          8       petitions I'd like to give y'all today, please.
          9            Also, this morning, many Walton County
         10       citizens traveled here to voice their support
         11       for the Forestry Division's new CARL boundary.
         12            I'd like to ask if the citizens from
         13       Walton County could stand, please.
         14            Okay.  Thank you.
         15            Also, among -- among this group are many
         16       individuals who represent all the organizations
         17       in Walton County.  And I would like to ask for a
         18       quick roll call of those representatives to tell
         19       you what organization they're with.  And they
         20       also want to voice their support for the new
         21       CARL boundary.
         22            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
         23            MR. PETERSEN:  I'm Steve Petersen.  I
         24       represent the Homeowners' Association of
         25       Sunrise Beach, and we do support holding the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       line and protecting our lands.
          2            MR. HILSON:  I'm Hilton Lawson.  I've been
          3       with Walton County since 1968.  I'm a
          4       Walton Tax -- Walton County Taxpayers
          5       Association.  It is the oldest civic
          6       organization in South Walton.
          7            And I fully agree, and the members I've
          8       contacted fully agree on the boundaries that you
          9       have designed and brought before you this day.
         10            Thank you.
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         12            MS. McQUISTON:  Excuse me.  In the name of
         13       time, could you just stand and just name your
         14       organization.  And that's all we're going to
         15       have time for.
         16            MR. WRIGHT:  Governor, my name is
         17       John Wright.  I had the privilege of serving as
         18       one of the Board members of the South Walton
         19       Conservation Development Trust.  I would say I
         20       was treasurer.  I tried to be a good steward.
         21       And I'm for what we're trying to do today.
         22            Thank you.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
         24            MS. JONES:  I'm Nancy Jones of Inlet Beach
         25       Neighborhood Association.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MS. COMACHO:  I'm Lavern Comacho,
          2       South Walton Fire District.
          3            MS. MARTIN:  Grace Martin, Three Arts
          4       Alliance.
          5            MS. STAFFORD:  Lyn Stafford, Eastern Lake
          6       Neighborhood Association.
          7            MR. BAIR:  Wally Bair, President of
          8       South Walton Community Council, 18 neighborhoods
          9       belong to our association.
         10            MR. RUSSELL:  George Russell, past
         11       President, Emerald Coast Cyclists' Club.  We
         12       support the new foundation.
         13            MR. WHITE:  Bob White, member of the City
         14       38 Business Association.
         15            MS. BANNERMAN:  Claire Bannerman, Friends
         16       of Eden, volunteer coordinator, and we support.
         17            MR. SCHRADER:  Terry Schrader, business
         18       owner on Highway 98 in South Walton, and a
         19       representative of 51 plus percent of the vote in
         20       the last election of South Walton.
         21            MR. MURPHY:  I'm Bob Murphy, Chairman of
         22       Beach to Bay Connection, and we've worked hard
         23       with the LAAC and LMAC, and we think the
         24       proposal you have in front of you today is
         25       acceptable.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MR. DEAN:  Bob Dean with the Habitat for
          2       Humanity in Walton County, and I certainly
          3       endorse the concept of the town center,
          4       especially provisions that have been made for
          5       affordable housing, which is desperately needed
          6       in South Walton for the service industry.
          7            MS. McQUISTON:  And I've been asked by the
          8       President of Friends of the Coastal Branch
          9       Library, who could not be here today, she has
         10       faxed each of you to voice the Friends of the
         11       Library's support for this new boundary also.
         12            Thank you.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         14            MS. WETHERELL:  There are still four
         15       speakers, and I'll ask them to stay to their
         16       3 minutes, please.
         17            Kassy Keyes is next.
         18            MS. KEYES:  I have these documents to
         19       present.
         20            MS. WETHERELL:  I'll take them for you.
         21       There are two different documents.
         22            MS. WETHERELL:  Okay.
         23            MS. KEYES:  What I'm sending up to you are
         24       the documents that are the final report of the
         25       South Walton Ecosystem Management Team.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            It contains a summary of the two planning
          2       processes, and then you'll see a complete master
          3       plan for the new town center that includes
          4       wetlands jurisdictions, topographic surveys,
          5       environmental surveys, as well as a master plan
          6       of development.
          7            And I hope that that plan will help to
          8       answer some of Mr. Manley Fuller's questions.
          9       That town has been very well designed with all
         10       environmental considerations taken into its
         11       thought and planning.
         12            The South Walton Trust was created in 1993
         13       to help try to find an answer to some of these
         14       perplexing problems about conservation
         15       development.
         16            Throughout the process, there was a
         17       three-fold expression for South Walton that
         18       emerged:  Economy, ecology, and community.
         19            The South Walton Conservation Development
         20       Trust Plan was completed in December 31st, 1994.
         21       The scope of the document was extraordinary.  It
         22       contained a plan for South Walton that addressed
         23       infrastructure, transportation, natural
         24       resources, land use, housing, education, and
         25       economic growth.  It also contained an
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       acquisition, disposition plan for public lands.
          2            The plan met both conservation and
          3       development goals without changing the overall
          4       percentage of State ownership in South Walton,
          5       which at that time was 37 percent of the south
          6       end of the county.
          7            According to that report, by following the
          8       trust plan, Walton County stood to gain a net
          9       fiscal benefit of 176 million dollars over a
         10       25-year period; the school district would see a
         11       net fiscal benefit of 92 million; a combined net
         12       benefit of 268 million dollars over 25 years.
         13            Affordable housing and an approved primary
         14       and secondary education system were considered
         15       crucial to the success of this economic
         16       strategy.  The dispositioned lands would offer
         17       opportunities to provide for both needs.
         18            For the past several years, I have had the
         19       good fortunate to work with the Walton County
         20       Board of County Commissioners, and be involved
         21       in helping to bring to Walton County the
         22       planning processes known as the
         23       South Walton Conservation Development Trust, and
         24       the South Walton Ecosystem Management Pilot
         25       Program.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            Both programs were created by the Florida
          2       Legislature to try to find a balance between
          3       conservation development needs in Walton,
          4       following the State's purchase of this land.
          5            Both programs sought to fulfill the vision
          6       expressed through the Trust, economy, ecology,
          7       and community.
          8            Hopefully your actions today to approve the
          9       new CARL boundary for the South Walton Ecosystem
         10       Project will move us one step further towards
         11       that goal.
         12            I'd now like to introduce you to the
         13       Chairman of the Walton County Board of County
         14       Commissioners, Mr. Bill Young.
         15            And thank you very much.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         17            MR. YOUNG:  Governor Chiles, distinguished
         18       members of the Cabinet, we just want to
         19       thank you this morning for giving us our
         20       opportunity to appear before you to talk about
         21       the new CARL boundary.  We appreciate it very,
         22       very much.
         23            Our entire County Commission is here with
         24       us today, along with a representative of the
         25       School Board, Mrs. Susan Atkison.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            It is our understanding that all of our
          2       Congressional delegation has contacted you,
          3       either by letter, by fax, or by verbal
          4       communication, indicating their support of the
          5       new CARL boundary.
          6            And we appreciate that very, very much.
          7            I'd like now to introduce one or two other
          8       people before I introduce our commissioners.
          9            One man who is very familiar to all of you,
         10       I know, Mr. Jim MacFarland, who is formerly the
         11       Director -- State Director of Land Acquisition.
         12            He wants to speak briefly this morning
         13       concerning the proposal that is before you.
         14            MR. MacFARLAND:  Thank you very much.
         15            First of all, I'd like to admit, Governor,
         16       I have been lost in Tate's Hell.
         17            Also, your earlier remarks, where a lot of
         18       what I was going to say, you have said it much
         19       better.  I became involved in Grayton Beach when
         20       I was the Director of State Lands when I first
         21       came down here.
         22            In '84 and '85, one of the -- now
         23       commissioner, Van Ness Butler, managed the
         24       property for FDIC.  It was the Grayton Beach
         25       property, included hundreds of acres of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       beachfront.  It was put on the Save Our Coast
          2       list.
          3            There was some surplus property there,
          4       too.  There was a lot of land north of 98.
          5            The FDIC basically said, we're going to put
          6       auction, if you want; to really get it, you have
          7       to buy all the property.  The Governor in
          8       that -- and the Cabinet at that time told the
          9       staff to go ahead and do it, all the property
         10       was purchased.  And Van Ness led that effort.
         11            That was sort of a prototype of having to
         12       buy additional property.  It is now managed by
         13       the State, and it's very environmentally
         14       sensitive.  It was a good decision.
         15            I know a lot of the members of the -- the
         16       Trust and I speak for the Land Selection
         17       Committee.  The people that have looked at this
         18       issue are very capable, very competent.  And
         19       I think what they've come up -- the boundaries
         20       are very good.
         21            One of the things I need to point out is,
         22       you know, there's talk about the tax revenue
         23       loss.  One of the former speakers mentioned the
         24       prices of property in South Walton.
         25            One of the things that's happened there
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       because of the Grayton purchase, because of the
          2       Topsail, Point Washington purchase, it has made
          3       the remaining land very expensive.  And that's
          4       why Walton County needs some assistance.
          5            In fact, I was just advised the other day
          6       that DOT had money for widening Highway 98, they
          7       just discovered that the price has doubled, they
          8       do not have the money, they have to go back to
          9       get additional funding.
         10            Walton County has become a very desirable
         11       area from my -- first time I was over there, I
         12       fell in love with it.  I'm now a property owner
         13       over there.  I go over quite a bit.  And you can
         14       just watch the changes.
         15            The people in South Walton County -- the
         16       beaches over there, in my opinion, are the best
         17       beaches in the United States.  They're
         18       absolutely beautiful.
         19            South Walton will be a model -- it'll be
         20       one of the -- you know, the best places to
         21       live.  They're just going to say South Walton
         22       will go to the top of the list.  It's that
         23       unique.
         24            I think the boundaries that have been
         25       developed by -- by all the people is a good
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       one.  The surplusing of a few hundred acres is
          2       not going to effect the environment in there,
          3       and actually, quite frankly, is the prudent
          4       thing to do.
          5            Any manager of property that's configured
          6       like that would look at how they could best come
          7       up with the boundaries.  Any prudent owner would
          8       take a look at it.
          9            In addition, I'd like to ask you since
         10       property val-- are changing, if you approve the
         11       list today, is to encourage DEP to, one, to
         12       quickly buy the inholdings in Topsail Hill, the
         13       park there; and also in Point Washington, to
         14       make those connectors, to do that as soon as
         15       possible, and go through the surplus process, so
         16       the County can put --
         17            (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
         18       room.)
         19            MR. MacFARLAND:  -- some of the
         20       infrastructure in that they need.
         21            And thank you very much.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
         23            MR. MacFARLAND:  It's also my pleasure to
         24       introduce Van Ness Butler, who's now an elected
         25       Commissioner.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MR. BUTLER:  Governor and Cabinet members,
          2       it's an honor to appear before you today.
          3            I am Van Ness Butler, a newly elected
          4       County Commissioner for District 5, which
          5       includes all of South Walton County, all
          6       26 miles of Gulf front.
          7            I'm a third generation native of
          8       Grayton Beach.  My grandfather and my father
          9       developed Grayton Beach.  My grandfather built a
         10       hotel there in 1922.
         11            My father graduated from University of
         12       Florida in 1926, and was teacher and principal
         13       in South Walton for some 30 years.  He recently,
         14       at age ninety-three, had the honor of having the
         15       new South Walton Elementary School, Van Butler
         16       Elementary, which will open this fall, named for
         17       him, which was an honor, and I'm happy for him.
         18            But you, Governor, and fellow Cabinet
         19       members, are to be congratulated for your vision
         20       and foresight in helping Walton County acquire
         21       the land for that school so that school could
         22       become a reality.
         23            In the late '70s and '80s, I was a leading
         24       advocate of the State's purchase of
         25       Grayton Dunes, and worked very hard to bring
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       about that acquisition, as Mr. MacFarland told
          2       you.
          3            We were finally successful in '85 and '86
          4       when the State acquired this beautiful
          5       property.  This was the State's first purchase
          6       of environmentally endangered lands in
          7       Walton County.
          8            In 1993 and '94, I had the honor of serving
          9       on the South Walton Conservation and Development
         10       Trust, a Trust composed of twelve members
         11       appointed by the Governor, and the Walton County
         12       Commission, and funded by the Legislature to
         13       study the 18,000 acres of the Point Washington
         14       CARL acquisition.
         15            The Trust was formed to make -- make --
         16       recommendations on any further State
         17       acquisitions and dispositions of land in
         18       South Walton County.
         19            I had the honor of serving with Jim Early,
         20       Secretary of Department of Community Affairs;
         21       and George Wilson, of the Nature Conservancy on
         22       this Trust.
         23            The outcome of that planning effort is
         24       before you today.  The -- after going through a
         25       number of committees, and -- this is the final
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       recommendation from the LMAC Committee to change
          2       the CARL boundary, which would allow for
          3       surplusing of the proposed South Walton County
          4       town center.
          5            Believe me, this property has been studied
          6       from every aspect, from our environmentally --
          7       we've stated the drainage, storm water drainage,
          8       the -- everything has been done down to the nuts
          9       and bolts on this property.
         10            It's vital to Walton County to be able to
         11       acquire this property for the town center, to
         12       provide for the South Walton County -- the
         13       Walton County infrastructure needs, such as a
         14       South Walton County annex; the library;
         15       Okaloosa-Walton Community College wants to place
         16       a branch in this area.
         17            The -- its local school board wants to
         18       place a junior high school, and possibly a
         19       high school in this area.
         20            The Walton County Health Department has
         21       expressed interest in locating a facility in
         22       this area.
         23            The fire department is interested in
         24       locating facilities for the fire department.
         25            So what we're asking for really is help
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       from you to provide for county infrastructure
          2       needs in South Walton County.  And we appreciate
          3       all the help you've given us so far.
          4            Thank you.
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you,
          6       Commissioner Butler.
          7            MR. YOUNG:  The other commissioners that
          8       are with us here today, Commissioner Gordon
          9       Porter; Commissioner Joel Paul; Commissioner
         10       Randall Infinger; and our county attorney,
         11       George Ralph Miller.
         12            Other local officials who are here with us
         13       today:  We have Mr. Tom Powell.  He's the
         14       Executive Director of the Walton County Economic
         15       Development Council.
         16            And we have Mr. Malcolm Patterson.  He's
         17       the Executive Director of the South Walton
         18       Tourist Development Council.
         19            And there is one or two people that
         20       Mr. Patterson would like to introduce.
         21            MR. PATTERSON:  Thank you very much,
         22       Mr. Chairman, and Governor and members of the
         23       Cabinet.
         24            I also have the pleasure of serving on the
         25       Conservation and Development Trust.  I bring
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       with it a couple of people that are supporting
          2       the proposal before you this morning.
          3            One of them is Vernon Allen representing
          4       the Sandestin Resort.  And the other one is
          5       Don Quatey, who's the general manager of the
          6       Sandestin Beach Hilton, and is also the chairman
          7       of the Tourist Development Council.
          8            Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
          9            MR. YOUNG:  Thank you, Mr. Patterson.
         10            All of us are here today to express -- to
         11       express our support for the new CARL boundary.
         12       And we just want to say that we thank you very
         13       much for the action which you initiated back in
         14       1992.
         15            Governor Chiles and other Cabinet members,
         16       when you looked at this situation, and you
         17       sought to find a balance between the
         18       conservation and the development needs as far as
         19       Walton County is concerned, and we just
         20       appreciate it very much when you called for this
         21       review to be done to see which parcels of these
         22       properties might be disposed of to either the
         23       public or the private sector.
         24            As you recall, many, many State dollars
         25       were expended in studying this project.  It was
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       studied in great detail, as Mr. Butler pointed
          2       out.  And this -- this final report, which you
          3       were given this morning, I think it beautifully
          4       expresses a plan that expresses our vision of
          5       South Walton's economy for our future, and the
          6       community.
          7            And we would just like to say today, we ask
          8       you to approve this, and we are convinced that
          9       if you approve this new boundary, and if you
         10       approve the disposition of the lands outside the
         11       boundary, I think this is going to give us an
         12       opportunity to fulfill the vision expressed in
         13       the final report of this South Walton
         14       Conservation and Development Trust.
         15            We envision a new home town complex,
         16       courthouse annex, schools, a library, community
         17       college, affordable housing.  And all of these
         18       things we desperately need in South Walton.
         19            And on behalf of the Commission, I just
         20       want to thank you, and the Legislature, for what
         21       you did in the way of participation in these
         22       projects.  I thank you for directing it to be
         23       done.  And I thank the Legislature and all of
         24       you involved for funding these projects.
         25            And I just want to commend all of those who
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       were involved in this work which went on.  This
          2       report represents a tremendous amount of very,
          3       very hard work on the part of many individuals.
          4            I am very, very proud and thankful for what
          5       they've done.  Many local people, many local
          6       officials, many State and Federal officials, all
          7       had input into this plan.  And we as a Board of
          8       County Commissioners, I assure you, are
          9       committed to making this work.
         10            We respectfully ask you today to approve
         11       this new CARL boundary, and to help us begin
         12       putting our plan into action.
         13            Thank you --
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you --
         15            MR. MacFARLAND:  -- very, very much.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- Mr. Chairman.
         17            Thank you.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  Governor, I have a
         19       question of clarification.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         21            TREASURER NELSON:  Is it correct, Governor,
         22       that what we will be voting on is the CARL
         23       boundary, and only the CARL boundary, not the
         24       question of the disposition of surplus lines.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think that's right.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       I think at this meeting, that's what we're
          2       prepared to do.
          3            I would suggest that -- that we might want
          4       to ask the Secretary to come back in 90 days,
          5       what -- what period of time do you need?
          6            MS. WETHERELL:  I think 90 days is what the
          7       folks have been talking about as a realistic
          8       time frame.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Is that sufficient time
         10       to --
         11            MS. WETHERELL:  Yes, sir.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  That being the case,
         13       Governor, I'd like to move Item 8, acceptance of
         14       the '97 CARL annual report, and approval of the
         15       1997 CARL Priority List.
         16            MS. WETHERELL:  Governor, I have --
         17            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         18            MS. WETHERELL:  -- made a faux pas in that
         19       I did not call on one speaker.  And that is
         20       George Wilson from the Nature Conservancy.
         21            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  He's
         22       responsible for this whole thing.
         23            If he did not take that free piece of land
         24       a few years ago, we'd never be in this position
         25       now.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            He negotiated that, Governor.  That just
          2       shows, no good deed ever goes unpunished.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  You want to call on him
          4       then?
          5            MS. WETHERELL:  George, would you like to
          6       come forward?  I apologize to you.
          7            MR. WILSON:  I'll defer.  With that motion,
          8       that's perfect.
          9            MS. WETHERELL:  Okay.  All right.  He's a
         10       very wise man.
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, that's
         12       interesting.  I -- you know, there were some
         13       feathers on him at one time, a little bit
         14       earlier, and a little tar.  I'm glad that come
         15       off now.
         16            MR. WILSON:  I wanted to remind you that I
         17       was one of your appointees on the Trust.
         18            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Why was he
         19       not reappointed, Governor?
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  We have a
         21       motion and a second.
         22            Is there discussion?
         23            Without objection, it's approved.  The
         24       boundaries are approved.
         25            I want to thank all of you.  I think it's
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1       kind of interesting.  I think this notes that
          2       democracy isn't always pretty, but somehow it
          3       works.
          4            And I think all of the work that all of you
          5       have done certainly has helped put together what
          6       looks like an outstanding report.
          7            And I think that it's given the County an
          8       awful lot of push of recognizing when everybody
          9       does kind of work together and recognize that
         10       there is a way of balancing all of these
         11       economic, ecological, and other needs that we
         12       have, that it can work.
         13            You prove it to us by your actions, and we
         14       thank you very much for that.
         15            MS. WETHERELL:  Okay.  Substitute Item 9 is
         16       a consent of use for severance, a temporary use
         17       of submerged lands --
         18            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
         19            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         22            Without objection, it's approved.
         23            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 10 is amendments to
         24       the St. Joe Bay Aquatic Preserve Manage--
         25            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1            MS. WETHERELL:  --ment Plan --
          2            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          3            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved, seconded.
          5            Without objection, that's approved.
          6            MS. WETHERELL:  And, Governor, I just
          7       wanted to recognize a County Commissioner,
          8       Warren Yeager, who is here who cochaired this
          9       effort and made it possible.
         10            Commissioner Yeager.
         11            Thank you.
         12            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Is he standing?
         13            MS. WETHERELL:  It's hard to tell.
         14            That concludes our agenda.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  That's it.
         16            MS. WETHERELL:  Thank you.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         18            (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
         19       Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
         20                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                February 11, 1997
          1            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  We're not done?
          2            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Don't we
          3       still have Administration Commission?
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
          5       Administration Commission.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion on
          7       the minutes.
          8            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         10            Without objection, the minutes are
         11       approved.
         12            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 2, recommend
         13       approval of Items A, B, and C in the Justice
         14       Administration --
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         16            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         18            Without objection, it's approved.
         19            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 3, recommend
         20       approval of the transfer of general revenue
         21       appropriations to the Department of Children and
         22       Families.
         23            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         24            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                February 11, 1997
          1            Without objection, that's approved.
          2            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 4,
          3       administration -- request approval for
          4       publishing in the Florida Administrative --
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
          6            DR. BRADLEY:  This would be the notice --
          7            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          9            Without objection, that's approved.
         10            (The Administration Commission Agenda was
         11       concluded.)
         12                             *
         13            (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
         14       11:40 a.m.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                February 11, 1997
          1                 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
          4   STATE OF FLORIDA:
          5   COUNTY OF LEON:
          6            I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
          7   the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
          8   time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
          9   notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
         10   pages numbered 1 through 93 are a true and correct
         11   record of the aforesaid proceedings.
         12            I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
         13   employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
         14   nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
         15   or financially interested in the foregoing action.
         16            DATED THIS 21ST day of FEBRUARY, 1997.
         19                           LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
                                      100 Salem Court
         20                           Tallahassee, Florida 32301
                                      (904) 878-2221
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.