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          2                  T H E   C A B I N E T
          3             S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
                        VOTE ON 1997 CABINET MEETING DATES
          6                 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
          7                  DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                           DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
          8                     AND MOTOR VEHICLES
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
          9                  STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
         10                  TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
                              IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
         11                MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                       The above agencies came to be heard before
         13   THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
              presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
         14   The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Thursday,
              November 7, 1996, commencing at approximately
         15   9:51 a.m.
         17                       Reported by:
         18                    LAURIE L. GILBERT
                        Registered Professional Reporter
         19                 Certified Court Reporter
                            Notary Public in and for
         20              the State of Florida at Large
                                100 SALEM COURT
         24                TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
         25                      1-800/934-9090
          1   APPEARANCES:
          2            Representing the Florida Cabinet:
          3            LAWTON CHILES
                       BOB CRAWFORD
          5            Commissioner of Agriculture
          6            SANDRA B. MORTHAM
                       Secretary of State
                       BILL NELSON
          8            Treasurer
          9            BOB BUTTERWORTH
                       Attorney General
                       FRANK T. BROGAN
         11            Commissioner of Education
         12                           *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                        I N D E X
          2   ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
          4    1                  Approved                  7
              (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
          6       Secretary)
          7    1                  Approved                  8
               2                  Approved                  8
          8    3                  Approved                  8
               4                  Approved                  9
         10   (Presented by Barbara L. Jarriel, CFA,
                  Acting Executive Director)
               1                  Approved                 10
         12    2                  Approved                 10
               3                  Approved                 11
         13    4                  Approved                 11
               5                  Approved                 11
         15   (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
               1                  Approved                 13
         17    2                  Approved                 13
               3                  Approved                 14
         18    4                  Approved                 14
               5                  Approved                 14
         20   (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
                  Executive Director)
               1                  Approved                 15
         22    2                  Approved                 15
               3                  Approved                 16
         23    4                  Approved                 16
               5                  Approved                 16
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                         I N D E X
              ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
          4   (Presented by James T. Moore,
                  Executive Director)
               1                  Approved                 20
          6    2                  Approved                 20
               3                  Approved                 20
          7    4                  Report                   20
               5                  Approved                 28
          8    6                  Approved                 28
              (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
         10       Deputy Commissioner)
         11    1                  Approved                 29
               2                  Report                   29
         12    3                  Report                   39
               4                  Approved                 69
         13    5                  Approved                 69
               6                  Approved                 69
         15   (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
                  Deputy Commissioner)
               1                  Approved                 71
         17    2                  Approved                 71
         18   BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
         19   TRUST FUND:
              (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
         20       Secretary)
         21    1                  Approved                 82
              Substitute 2        Approved                 82
         22   Substitute 3        Approved                 82
               4                  Approved                 83
         23    5                  Approved                 83
              Substitute6         Approved                 85
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                         I N D E X
              ITEM                  ACTION                PAGE
          4   (Presented by Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D.,
                  Executive Director)
               A                  Approved                 88
          6    B                  Approved                 88
               C                  Approved                 89
          7    D                  Approved                 89
               E                  Approved                 89
          8    F                  Approved                154
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                     INDEX TO EXHIBITS
          2   NUMBER              DESCRIPTION           PAGE
              (All Exhibits Filed with
          3     Original Transcript)
          4    1       Letter dated November 7, 1996,
                         to Governor Lawton Chiles and
          5              Cabinet from J. Patrick Floyd
                         with attachments                 155
               2       Transcript of Jorge Ernesto Laguna
          7              dated November 4, 1996           155
          8    3       Transcript of
                         Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D., dated
          9              November 5, 1996                 155
                       CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER            156
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            1997 CABINET MEETING DATES
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                  P R O C E E D I N G S
          2            (The agenda items commenced at 10:03 a.m.)
          3            (Treasurer Nelson not present in the room.)
11:02     4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We need a motion on the
11:02     5       1997 Cabinet meeting dates.
11:02     6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move.
11:02     7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Been moved and -- is
11:02     8       there a second?
11:02     9            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:02    10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
11:02    11            Without objection, they're approved.
11:02    12            Commissioner Brogan's going to give us an
11:02    13       update on the Florida State Employees Charitable
11:02    14       Campaign.
11:02    15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Thank you, Governor.
         16            (Discussion not reported.)
         17            (The Vote on the 1997 Cabinet Meeting Dates
         18       was concluded.)
         19                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:05     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  And I want to take out of
11:05     2       order, if I might, the Administration
11:05     3       Commission, take them first.
11:05     4            DR. BRADLEY:  Thank you very much.
11:06     5            Item number 1, recommend approval of the
11:06     6       minutes of the meeting held October 22nd, 1996.
11:06     7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
11:06     8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:06     9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's moved and seconded.
11:06    10            Without objection, it's approved.
11:06    11            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 2 is recommend
11:06    12       the approval of transfers of general revenue
11:06    13       appropriations in the Department of Corrections.
11:06    14            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
11:06    15            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:06    16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:06    17            Without objection, it's approved.
11:06    18            DR. BRADLEY:  Item number 3 is recommend
11:06    19       the approval of the transfer of general revenue
11:06    20       appropriations in the Justice Administrative
11:06    21       Commission.
11:06    22            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
11:06    23            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
11:06    24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:06    25            Without objection, it's approved.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                            ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:06     1            DR. BRADLEY:  Recommend -- Item number 3,
11:06     2       recommend the approval of the transfer of
11:06     3       general revenue appropriations in the Department
11:06     4       of Juvenile Justice.
11:06     5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
11:06     6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:06     7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:06     8            Without objection, that's approved.
11:06     9            DR. BRADLEY:  Thank you very much.
11:06    10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
         11            (The Administration Commission Agenda was
         12       concluded.)
         13                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:06     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  State Board of
11:06     2       Administration.
11:06     3            MS. JARRIEL:  The first item is approval of
11:07     4       the minutes of the meeting held on October 22nd.
11:07     5            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
11:07     6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:07     7            Without objection, it's approved.
11:07     8            MS. JARRIEL:  Second item, a recommendation
11:07     9       to approve fiscal sufficiency not to exceed
11:07    10       nineteen million four hundred and fifty-five
11:07    11       thousand Board of Regents, University of
11:07    12       Central Florida Housing Revenue Bonds.
11:07    13            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
11:07    14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved.
11:07    15            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
11:07    17            Without objection, it's approved.
11:07    18            MS. JARRIEL:  Item number 3, a
11:07    19       recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
11:07    20       to exceed forty million three hundred and
11:07    21       ninety-five thousand Board of Regents University
11:07    22       System Improvement Revenue Bonds, series 97.
11:07    23            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
11:07    24            Since there's only you and me here --
11:07    25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Then I second --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:07     1            TREASURER NELSON:  -- you have to --
11:07     2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
11:07     3            And without objection, it's approved.
11:07     4            MS. JARRIEL:  Item number 4, a
11:07     5       recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
11:07     6       to exceed nine million six hundred thousand
11:07     7       Department of Management Services, Division of
11:07     8       Facilities Management, Florida Facilities Pool
11:07     9       Revenue Bonds, Series 1996B.
11:07    10            TREASURER NELSON:  Move it.
11:07    11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
11:08    12            Without objection, it's approved.
11:08    13            MS. JARRIEL:  Item number 5, a
11:08    14       recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
11:08    15       to exceed ten million five hundred thousand
11:08    16       Board of Regents, University of South Florida
11:08    17       Housing Facility Revenue Bonds.
11:08    18            TREASURER NELSON:  And I move it.
11:08    19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
11:08    20            Without objection, it's approved.
11:08    21            MS. JARRIEL:  And that concludes SBA's
11:08    22       agenda.
11:08    23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, ma'am.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            (The State Board of Administration Agenda
          2       was concluded.)
          3                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                 November 7, 1996
11:08     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Division of
11:08     2       Bond Finance.
11:08     3            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 1 is approval of
11:08     4       the minutes of the October 22nd meeting.
11:08     5            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:08     7            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:08     8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:08     9            Without objection, they're approved.
11:08    10            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 2 is a resolution
11:08    11       authorizing the competitive sale of up to
11:08    12       10.5 million dollars of Board of Regents Revenue
11:08    13       Bonds for the University of South Florida.
11:08    14            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:08    15            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:08    16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:08    17            Without objection, it's approved.
11:08    18            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 3 is a resolution
11:08    19       authorizing the competitive sale of up to
11:08    20       nineteen million four hundred fifty-five
11:08    21       thousand Board of Regents Revenue Bonds for the
11:08    22       University of Central Florida.
11:08    23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:08    24            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:09    25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                 November 7, 1996
11:09     1            Without objection, it's approved.
11:09     2            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 4 is a resolution
11:09     3       authorizing the competitive sale of up to
11:09     4       9.6 million dollars of facilities revenue bonds
11:09     5       for the satellite office complex here in
11:09     6       Tallahassee.
11:09     7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:09     8            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:09     9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:09    10            Without objection, it's approved.
11:09    11            MR. WATKINS:  Item number 5 is a resolution
11:09    12       authorizing the competitive sale of up to
11:09    13       forty million three hundred ninety-five thousand
11:09    14       Board of Regents Revenue Bonds for improvements
11:09    15       to the State University System.
11:09    16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:09    17            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:09    18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:09    19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:09    20            Without objection, it's approved.
         21            (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
         22       concluded.)
         23                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
11:09     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Highway Safety.
11:09     2            MR. DICKINSON:  Good morning.
11:09     3            Item number 1 is approval of the minutes
11:09     4       from the September 26th meeting.
11:09     5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move it.
11:09     6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:09     7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  They're moved and
11:09     8       seconded.
11:09     9            Without objection, they're approved.
11:09    10            MR. DICKINSON:  Item number 2 is a
11:09    11       reappointment of the following doctors on the
11:10    12       Medical Advisory Committee.
11:10    13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:10    14            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:10    15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:10    16            Without objection, they're approved.
11:10    17            MR. DICKINSON:  Item 3 is to request
11:10    18       approval to contract for a customer friendly
11:10    19       service wing as you enter our building.  It's
11:10    20       also part of our workplace safety.
11:10    21            We're going to try to get everybody that's
11:10    22       coming to our building for a nonworking purpose
11:10    23       to be housed right there at the front door where
11:10    24       you come in so you can get your driver license,
11:10    25       tag, anything like that right there as you walk
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
11:10     1       in the door.
11:10     2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:10     3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
11:10     4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:10     5            Without objection, it's approved.
11:10     6            MR. DICKINSON:  Item 4 is a revision.
11:10     7       We're going from a five-year to a -- request
11:10     8       approval to go from a five-year to a one-year
11:10     9       contracts on the motorcycle training contracts
11:10    10       that we have around the state.
11:10    11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
11:10    12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved.
11:10    13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:10    14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
11:10    15            Without objection, it's approved.
11:10    16            MR. DICKINSON:  And Item 5 is our
11:10    17       legislative package.  Request approval.
11:10    18            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
11:10    19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  There's a motion?
11:10    20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
11:11    21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
11:11    22            Without objection, it's --
11:11    23            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I moved and
11:11    24       seconded that.
11:11    25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  You did.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Yes.
11:11     2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  That's what I thought.
11:11     3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
11:11     4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Did it well.
11:11     5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I think so.
11:11     6            MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, if I might, we
11:11     7       have a gentleman visiting today from Lithuania.
11:11     8       He's the Vice Mayor of Siauliai, Lithuania.
11:11     9            And our local tax collector, John Chafin,
11:11    10       has been his host.  Alfred-- Mr. Alfredas
11:11    11       Jonuska has been over here with three of his
11:11    12       colleagues to look at some of the ways we do
11:11    13       things in our democracies here in the states.
11:11    14            As you know, they became independent some
11:11    15       six years ago, I believe, and --
11:11    16            MR. CHAFIN:  Correct.
         17            MR. DICKINSON:  -- are still putting their
11:11    18       infrastructure together for taxation.
11:11    19       Of course, they looked at us, at our driver
11:11    20       licensing and tagging.  I believe they've been
11:11    21       to some of your offices, as well as some other
11:11    22       State agencies.  And --
11:11    23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Let me get this
11:11    24       straight.  They're looking at the United States
11:11    25       upon which to build their tax structure?
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
11:12     1            MR. CHAFIN:  No, sir, Your Honor.  They're
11:12     2       looking at how we fund our services, and,
11:12     3       you know, what type of services we provide.
11:12     4       They have spent some time with the Governor's
11:12     5       staff a couple of weeks ago, Governor, and
          6       they've spent some time with all the State
11:12     7       agencies that the tax collectors represent.
11:12     8            Mr. Inzer, with the City, and I have been
11:12     9       spending about three weeks with him now.  They
11:12    10       are looking at our democracy and how we're
11:12    11       structured and how we fund our services.
11:12    12            So this is Mr. Alfredas Jonuska from
11:12    13       Siauliai, Lithuania.
11:12    14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We're delighted to have
11:12    15       you here.  We know that Lithuania has had a very
11:12    16       long and sometimes tragic history.  We know that
11:12    17       there has always been a very strong Lithuanian
11:12    18       community in the United States.  And the
11:12    19       United States has long looked with yearning to
11:12    20       see Lithuania become free again.
11:12    21            We're delighted to see that you're -- that
11:12    22       you now have your independent status, and we
11:13    23       wish you well in everything that you're doing.
11:13    24            MR. JONUSKA:  Thank you.  We appreciate for
11:13    25       this.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
11:13     2            MR. JONUSKA:  We wasn't independent till
11:13     3       '94, but after that, was annexed.  And from
11:13     4       1990, now independence is restored.
11:13     5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Terrific.
11:13     6            MR. JONUSKA:  We appreciate it.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
11:13     8            MR. CHAFIN:  If I could just add, he
11:13     9       attended his first football game ever, the
11:13    10       FSU-Virginia game a couple of weeks ago.  And
11:13    11       he's kind of gotten into the sport.
11:13    12            So I had a chance to introduce him to
11:13    13       Coach Bowden yesterday, and tour the facilities
11:13    14       out there.  So we're fast converting him to a
11:13    15       football fan.
11:13    16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Terrific.
         17            MR. CHAFIN:  Thank you.
         18            (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
         19       Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
         20                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:13     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Florida Department of Law
11:13     2       Enforcement.
11:13     3            MR. MOORE:  Governor, Item 1 is the minutes
11:13     4       from the September 10 Cabinet meeting.
11:13     5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:13     6            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:13     7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:13     8            Without objection, they're approved.
          9            MR. MOORE:  Item 2 is the Department's
11:13    10       quarterly report for July through September of
11:13    11       '96.
11:13    12            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
11:13    13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:13    14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:14    15            Without objection, it's approved.
11:14    16            MR. MOORE:  Item 3 is the Department's
11:14    17       Legislative Budget Request and our 1977
11:14    18       legislative proposals, summarized, request
11:14    19       approval to transmit.
11:14    20            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
11:14    21            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
11:14    22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:14    23            Without objection, that's approved.
11:14    24            MR. MOORE:  Governor, Item 4, as you know,
11:14    25       is -- grew out of a tragic situation better than
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:14     1       a year ago with the death and the heinous murder
11:14     2       of Jimmy Ryce.
11:14     3            And out of that, you signed an
11:14     4       Executive Order directing certain things to
11:14     5       happen.  And as a result of that, along with
11:14     6       Commissioner Brogan and others, legislation was
11:14     7       filed and passed that -- that has been called
11:14     8       the Jimmy Ryce Child Safety Act.
11:14     9            And we've done several things in that
11:14    10       regard.  Through interest expressed by all the
11:14    11       Cabinet offices, and your office as well, we
11:14    12       thought it very appropriate to give you a typed
11:14    13       status report on what we're doing in that area.
11:14    14       We've made a lot of progress.  Much remains to
11:14    15       be done on that very critical and sensitive
11:14    16       area.
11:14    17            I'd like to ask Ms. Donna Uzzell, who was
11:14    18       recently promoted, by the way, to our Director
11:14    19       of Criminal Justice Information, to come up and
11:14    20       give us a very brief status report on our
11:14    21       progress.
11:15    22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
11:15    23            MS. UZZELL:  Thank you.  I appreciate the
11:15    24       opportunity to speak to you today regarding the
11:15    25       implementation of the Jimmy Ryce Child Safety
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:15     1       Action Plan, and the subsequent passage of the
11:15     2       Jimmy Ryce Act.
11:15     3            I commend each of you for the leadership
11:15     4       you have shown on this issue, and the priorities
11:15     5       you have placed when it comes to the safety and
11:15     6       the protection of our children.
11:15     7            And I truly believe that as a result of
11:15     8       your actions, and the efforts of people such as
11:15     9       Don and Claudine Ryce, that we are making a
11:15    10       difference in the way we respond to missing
11:15    11       children cases, at the local level, at the State
11:15    12       level, and at the national level.
         13            And I'd like to take a minute, as the
11:15    14       Commissioner said, to highlight some of the
11:15    15       things that we've been able to accomplish.
11:15    16            Our first issue was to develop a fully
11:15    17       staffed and equipped law enforcement response
11:15    18       team.  To that effect, we have assembled the
11:15    19       capabilities around this entire state to respond
11:15    20       to assist local law enforcement with a variety,
11:15    21       or menu, if you will, of services that they can
11:15    22       choose from.
11:15    23            Among these services are things like a
11:15    24       mobile -- fully mobile and technologically
11:15    25       equipped command post; investigative assistance;
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:16     1       case tracking software; access to tracking dogs
11:16     2       via our mutual aid agreements with local
11:16     3       law enforcement, but also through an agreement
11:16     4       that we arranged with the Department of
11:16     5       Corrections, using their tracking dogs around
11:16     6       our State facilities.  Analytical resources, and
11:16     7       then staffing resources.
11:16     8            Additionally, we've entered into a
11:16     9       partnership with the Office of Juvenile Justice
11:16    10       and Delinquency Prevention at the Federal level,
11:16    11       and we've provided three regional trainings
11:16    12       around our state to missing person
11:16    13       investigators.
11:16    14            To date, over 150 law enforcement
11:16    15       investigators have received a specialized
11:16    16       training, and we'll be hosting our fourth
11:16    17       regional workshop in Jacksonville this January.
11:16    18            We have also provided numerous in-service
11:16    19       trainings at the agency level on the services
11:16    20       that we provide at our state clearinghouse.  And
11:16    21       we have distributed to every agency a list of
11:16    22       resources that we have available.
11:16    23            A second issue was the implementation of an
11:16    24       Executive Order requiring all State agencies to
11:16    25       post photos of missing children.  In May of
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:16     1       1996, each State office building began to
11:17     2       display flyers of missing children on bulletin
11:17     3       boards.  And a total of 2,393 facilities
11:17     4       participate now in this endeavor.
11:17     5            The photograph and the information of six
11:17     6       missing children are selected and sent to each
11:17     7       agency every other month.
11:17     8            The third issue that I'd like to mention is
11:17     9       the creation of a Missing Children Information
11:17    10       Clearinghouse Advisory Board.  This Board is
11:17    11       comprised of members from community and
11:17    12       nonprofit organizations, business leaders, local
11:17    13       law enforcement, school administrators, and
11:17    14       parents.  It's actually chaired by
11:17    15       Mike Vasilinda, who represents the important
11:17    16       role that the media plays on these issues.
11:17    17            The Board has met twice, and in just a
11:17    18       short period of time they've developed an
11:17    19       additional list of ten action items that we will
11:17    20       be addressing in the near future.
11:17    21            I mentioned earlier the resources available
11:17    22       to local law enforcement.  With your support,
11:17    23       and with that of the Legislature, the
11:17    24       Clearinghouse has enhanced our staffing
11:17    25       resources to include hiring four additional
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:17     1       analysts, upgrading our technology, which we now
11:17     2       have posted our missing children faces on the
11:18     3       home page, and we thank the Attorney General for
11:18     4       use of his home page during the period when we
11:18     5       didn't have one.
11:18     6            We have faxed the faces of these missing
11:18     7       children in emergency cases to every local
11:18     8       law enforcement agency in our state, and within
11:18     9       minutes, we have the capability now to do that.
11:18    10            And I might add that these resources that
11:18    11       we have in place now have helped us to directly
11:18    12       recover three to four children a month in our --
11:18    13       in our Clearinghouse.  Not to mention the
11:18    14       numerous assists we've been involved in with
11:18    15       local law enforcement.
11:18    16            We have added several tools to that
11:18    17       investigative process to include the sexual
11:18    18       predator database.  We have posted the names and
11:18    19       photos of sexual predators on the Internet.  And
11:18    20       since the inception of that program, we've
11:18    21       received approximately 3200 inquiries on our
11:18    22       home page, specifically accessing sexual
11:18    23       predator information.
11:18    24            And we continue to work with
11:18    25       law enforcement to develop protocol and
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:18     1       procedures for community notification of sexual
11:18     2       predators.
11:18     3            Another issue that we developed through the
11:18     4       J.R. -- the Jimmy Ryce Act is the flagging of
11:19     5       school records.  Children who are reported
11:19     6       missing to our Clearinghouse will now have
11:19     7       the -- their educational records flagged in the
11:19     8       event that they are reenrolled in another
11:19     9       school.
11:19    10            We appreciate, Commissioner Brogan, your
11:19    11       assistance in that effort, and we anticipate the
11:19    12       ability to track noncustodial abductions with
11:19    13       this mechanism in the near future.
11:19    14            Finally, the plan calls for intensive eye
11:19    15       and prevention programs.  We believe we must
11:19    16       continue to create an atmosphere in our
         17       communities that prevent the abduction of these
11:19    18       children in the first place.
11:19    19            We look forward to working with the
11:19    20       advisory board on these issues, and with the
11:19    21       Department of Education on identifying
11:19    22       successful curriculum programs in our schools.
11:19    23            I thank you for the opportunity to be here
11:19    24       today, and I want to thank each and every one of
11:19    25       you for standing up for our children, whose
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:19     1       faces and names continually remind us of why we
11:19     2       must keep striving to make a difference.
11:19     3            Thank you.
11:19     4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
11:19     5            Thank you for all your efforts in that
          6       regard.
11:19     7            MR. MOORE:  Good job, Donna.  And
11:19     8       thank you.
11:19     9            Governor, if I might comment, you know,
11:19    10       we've had -- we had one of the first missing
11:19    11       children information clearinghouses in the
11:19    12       country back in the late '70s and early '80s
11:20    13       when it was created.
11:20    14            I'd like to take one moment, and just ask
11:20    15       the men and women and the members of our
11:20    16       organization who staff that day in and day out
11:20    17       to stand up and be recognized for the good job
11:20    18       they do.
11:20    19            If you members would stand, I would -- I
11:20    20       would appreciate that.  Thank you.
11:20    21            (Applause.)
11:20    22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We thank you all very,
11:20    23       very much for your efforts in that regard.
11:20    24            MR. MOORE:  Thank you very much, Governor
11:20    25       and Cabinet.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                          DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                 November 7, 1996
11:20     1            Item 5 is proposed amendments to the
11:20     2       Division of Criminal Justice Standards and
11:20     3       Training administrative rules that we are still
11:20     4       required by law, it says shall have these
11:20     5       rules.  And we're --
11:20     6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:20     7            MR. MOORE:  -- moving to clean that up, but
          8       we need to pass this rule --
11:20     9            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         10            MR. MOORE:  -- to pass --
11:20    11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:20    12            Without objection, it's approved.
11:20    13            MR. MOORE:  Final item is Item 6.  It's
11:20    14       some similar rules dealing with our Implied
11:20    15       Consent Program in the Division of Local Law
11:20    16       Enforcement Assistance.
11:20    17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:20    18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:20    19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:20    20            Without objection, that's approved.
11:20    21            MR. MOORE:  Thank you, Governor.
11:20    22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         23            (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
         24       Agenda was concluded.)
         25                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:20     1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  State Board of Education.
11:20     2            DR. BEDFORD:  Governor Chiles, members of
11:21     3       the State Board of Education, good morning.
11:21     4            Item 1, quarterly reports for the period
11:21     5       ending September 30th, 1996.
11:21     6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
11:21     7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
11:21     8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
11:21     9            Without objection, it's approved.
11:21    10            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 2 is a presentation for
11:21    11       your information, a presentation of the
11:21    12       Department of Education process of planning for
11:21    13       organizational improvement.
11:21    14            With us from -- representing Department,
11:21    15       Hal Thomas.
11:21    16            MR. THOMAS:  Good morning, and thank you
11:21    17       for this opportunity to share a brief overview
11:21    18       of the work we're doing in the Department in an
11:21    19       effort to improve the services we deliver to the
         20       State of Florida.
11:21    21            When Commissioner Brogan came to the
11:21    22       Department, he brought with him a strong belief
11:21    23       that business practices that were being used in
11:21    24       organizations throughout this country to produce
11:21    25       high performance could be utilized in the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:21     1       delivery of educational services as well.
11:21     2            The first step in his plan to poise the
11:22     3       Department of Education to be in a position to
11:22     4       fulfill our changing role in this state
11:22     5       education system was the reorganization of our
11:22     6       agency, which was a 1995 priority.
11:22     7            The emphasis beginning this year is to
11:22     8       systematically define that role, and improve the
11:22     9       Department's effectiveness.
11:22    10            In September of 1995, Commissioner Brogan
11:22    11       and executive leadership met to discuss
11:22    12       strategies for making the reorganized Department
11:22    13       of Education more responsive to the needs and
11:22    14       requirements of schools and districts.
         15            (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
         16            MR. THOMAS:  Their vision for how the
11:22    17       Department should operate would include these
11:22    18       factors:
11:22    19            First, a more structured business approach
11:22    20       to education; secondly, the efficient and
11:22    21       effective use of physical and human resources;
11:22    22       third, a clear focus for the Department of
         23       Education.
11:22    24            A part of that was that that focus had to
11:22    25       increase support and flexibility to districts
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:22     1       and schools.
11:22     2            The commitment that was made:  First of
11:23     3       all, the systems thinking in the DOE.
11:23     4            The DOE must come to understand its role as
11:23     5       a subsystem of the State education system.  And
11:23     6       then all the systems within our agency must
11:23     7       begin to understand how they relate and
11:23     8       interrelate with each other, and how they impact
11:23     9       each other as they operate.
11:23    10            The second commitment was to the principles
11:23    11       of total quality management.  Research has shown
11:23    12       that high performing organizations, including
11:23    13       those with the service orientation, have
11:23    14       achieved this level of performance by
11:23    15       integrating quality management principles into
11:23    16       their organization.
11:23    17            Third, do a systematic approach to change.
11:23    18       Many organizations, including our agency, have
11:23    19       struggled with this issue of total quality
11:23    20       management.  A lot of unsuccessful efforts to
11:23    21       implement total quality management throughout
11:23    22       the country have been the result of failing to
11:23    23       address critical aspects of the organization's
11:23    24       operation.
11:23    25            To be successful in implementing total
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
11:23     1       quality management principles in a traditionally
11:24     2       bureaucratic organization, Commissioner Brogan
11:24     3       needed to use a system which ensured a
11:24     4       comprehensive and systematic effort.
11:24     5            Pinellas County, the school system there,
11:24     6       is recognized nationally now as a leader in
11:24     7       implementing quality management in the education
11:24     8       setting through the implementation of an
11:24     9       integrated management system.
11:24    10            Working with their quality academy, the
11:24    11       Commissioner and executive leadership made the
11:24    12       decision to implement in DOE such a system.
         13            (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
         14            MR. THOMAS:  This system would use the
         15       Baldridge or the Sterling Award Criteria and
         16       self-assessment process to bring about
         17       systematic and continuous improvement in the
         18       Department of Education.  I think you've been
         19       given an overview of the Sterling categories,
         20       and those items, those standards, which bring
         21       about high performance.
         22            The first steps which had to be taken to
         23       provide a foundation for the system were:  First
         24       of all, the mission of public education had to
         25       be articulated.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Following that, the Commissioner's vision
          2       for public education and the mission of the
          3       Department of Education had to be clearly
          4       stated.
          5            The core values necessary to guide the
          6       organization had to be identified.
          7            And, lastly, DOE's key customer
          8       requirements, and a strategic plan to meet them,
          9       had to be developed.
         10            Commissioner Brogan, his executive and
         11       senior leadership team, and over 100 Department
         12       of Education employees, and their customers,
         13       have been in the process which began on
         14       January 4th, with an executive retreat, and has
         15       led to a clear articulation of the strategic
         16       direction for the public education system, and
         17       for the Department of Education, including the
         18       mission, vision, values, and strategic plan.
         19            The implementation of that plan is being
         20       coordinated by seven cross-departmental teams,
         21       each led by a manager with accountability for
         22       measuring and reporting results on a regular
         23       basis.
         24            The information I'm about to go over is
         25       included in the second overview of the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       Department of Education's strategic direction,
          2       which you've been provided.
          3            The Department of Education exists to help
          4       facilitate the mission of Florida's
          5       public education system.
          6            And that mission is to provide the
          7       opportunity for all Floridians to attain the
          8       knowledge and skills necessary for lifelong
          9       learning, and to become self-sufficient,
         10       contributing members of society.
         11            The vision describes what the Department of
         12       Education would like to be like in the future:
         13       A high performing, customer focused organization
         14       that provides leadership and support to a world
         15       class education system for all Florida
         16       citizens.
         17            There's key -- three key things there:
         18       High performing, customer focused, providing
         19       leadership and support.
         20            Our mission statement describes what we
         21       must accomplish, for whom it must be
         22       accomplished, and how we approach the
         23       accomplishment of this mission that is to
         24       provide leadership and support for Florida's
         25       public education system by establishing
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       standards, providing technical assistance,
          2       guiding assessment, and reporting results.
          3            This statement reflects priorities
          4       expressed by the Department's primary customer
          5       groups, including teachers, school district
          6       administrators, parents, legislators, and the
          7       business community.
          8            Our strategic issues are those issues on
          9       which our customers have told us we should focus
         10       our efforts.
         11            The three issues, as included in the
         12       Agency's legislative budget request, which
         13       you've approved, are as follows:  High student
         14       achievement.  All students must be given the
         15       chance to attain the highest possible levels of
         16       academic achievement.
         17            Safe learning environment.  Florida's
         18       school sites and settings must be safe and
         19       secure places in which to learn.
         20            The third, increased government
         21       efficiency.  Florida's public education system
         22       will work with all stakeholders to maximize its
         23       effectiveness in meeting the needs of its
         24       citizens.
         25            The first strategic issue, high student
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       achievement, has identified three strategic
          2       goals.  The first:  Academic and employment
          3       skills.  Each student will be assured an equal
          4       opportunity to attain the highest levels of
          5       educational achievement, and prepare to
          6       successfully participate in the work force and
          7       pursue postsecondary education.  It's this area
          8       which aligns with the academic goals from school
          9       improvement and accountability.
         10            High performing workforce.  Employees
         11       throughout the State's educational system will
         12       perform at the highest levels of effectiveness
         13       and efficiency, and will understand how their
         14       jobs support high student achievement.
         15            It's this area which aligns with the
         16       workforce goal from school improvement
         17       accountability.
         18            The third:  Choice in school selection.
         19       All students will be provided equal enrollment
         20       access and resources to attend the school which
         21       will most effectively and efficiently meet their
         22       educational needs.
         23            Our second strategic issue, safe learning
         24       environment.  At this point, there's only one
         25       strategic goal that we're focusing our efforts
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       on, and that is personal safety.
          2            Florida students will have a safe and
          3       secure place in which to learn.  It is this area
          4       which aligns with the environmental safety goal
          5       from the school improvement accountability.
          6            Our third strategic issue, increased
          7       government efficiency, has three strategic goals
          8       as well:  Partnerships will be developed among
          9       state, district, school, and community resources
         10       to encourage and ensure that all groups work
         11       together to improve student achievement, and
         12       promote a safe learning environment.  And this
         13       area which aligns with the newest state goals on
         14       parental involvement.
         15            The second, local control.  Control and
         16       decision making authority critical to the
         17       effective and efficient delivery of educational
         18       programs will be retained to the greatest
         19       possible degree at the level closest to the
         20       learner.
         21            And lastly, the issue that we're -- we've
         22       provided a brief overview this morning is the
         23       integrated management system.  The education
         24       system in Florida will use an integrated
         25       management system to ensure that all resources
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       effectively and efficiently promote high student
          2       achievement in a safe and secure learning
          3       environment.  This system has been the topic of
          4       this presentation.
          5            The Sterling criteria serve as a map for
          6       the journey to organizational excellence.  Their
          7       effectiveness has been verified by a growing
          8       number of organizations, including those with a
          9       service orientation who have aggressively
         10       pursued an integrated management system based
         11       upon them.  They are a prescription of how to
         12       do, not what to do.
         13            On a more personal note, after 23 years as
         14       an educator in the state of Florida, as a
         15       teacher, as a local administrator, and as a
         16       district administrator, now as a Department of
         17       Education employee for the last eight years, I
         18       truly believe that these criteria in an
         19       integrated management system, can be a highly
         20       effective tool in bringing about true education
         21       reform.
         22            And once again, I thank you for the
         23       opportunity to share this information with you.
         24            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you, Hal.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you, Hal.
          2            That item was for information.
          3            Item 3, the annual report from the Florida
          4       Commission on Educational Reform and
          5       Accountability.
          6            We have with us Dr. Michael Biance, the
          7       Executive Director of the Accountability
          8       Commission.
          9            Mike.
         10            DR. BIANCE:  Governor, members of the
         11       State Board, it's a pleasure to be able to
         12       present to you the Accountability Commission's
         13       annual report.
         14            What I would like to do today is to just
         15       hit on some of the highlights of the report, and
         16       some areas that I believe need to be
         17       specifically considered.  Probably the -- the
         18       most -- single most important accomplishment in
         19       this past year was the completion of the design
         20       of Florida's system of school improvement and
         21       accountability.
         22            That was the result of an arduous
         23       five years.  If you take a look at it, you will
         24       see the eight goals are in place, standards for
         25       the eight goals, assessments and reporting
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       mechanism through the accountability
          2       indicators.
          3            You'll see some new accountability
          4       indicators, new reporting data.  For the first
          5       time this year, you will see results on whether
          6       or not students really are ready to start
          7       school.  We have never had assessment data that
          8       would tell us whether or not students coming in
          9       were meeting the State level expectations.
         10            But I'd like to emphasize Goal 3.  If you
         11       look at the Goal 3, which is the student
         12       performance, you'll notice that those standards
         13       are the SCANS standards.  Came from the business
         14       community, in terms of what students need to
         15       know and be able to do to be competitive in the
         16       21st century.
         17            You'll also notice that the revised
         18       curriculum frameworks, which you've been made
         19       aware of and the Sunshine State Standards are
         20       the embodiment of those SCANS standards and what
         21       goes on in our classrooms on a day-to-day
         22       basis.
         23            And they are assessed, as you can see,
         24       through the Florida Writes, and the upcoming
         25       F-CAT test.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            One of the other responsibilities of the
          2       Commission is the area of oversight.  And the
          3       Commission has been very fortunate to have the
          4       support of the Office of Program Policy Analysis
          5       and Government Accountability.
          6            And some of the highlights, if you will,
          7       what they found in a review of five districts,
          8       19 schools, first of all, that schools are
          9       implementing the initiatives to improve student
         10       performance.
         11            And secondly, stakeholders are beginning to
         12       see improvements, but they need help in
         13       evaluating initiatives.  That's really
         14       significant.
         15            We have gone from that first year -- first
         16       few years, where schools were saying, when are
         17       you going to send us the school improvement
         18       plans, to a whole other level of sophistication,
         19       where they're asking for the evaluation skills
         20       to be able to look at that data and tell whether
         21       or not these strategies are really working or
         22       not.
         23            Third, there's a framework in place for
         24       school improvement.  However, it has not
         25       affected the resource allocation and decision
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       making at the school and district level.  And
          2       that's an area that needs to be pursued.
          3            And last, the SAC membership problems have
          4       not improved.  The Commission made a
          5       recommendation last year to the Legislature, a
          6       bill was filed to deal with that issue.  And it
          7       will be refiled again this year.
          8            Another area of responsibility of the
          9       Commission is the annual feedback report.  There
         10       is no other agency that has a report card done
         11       on it.
         12            The results of the feedback survey
         13       conducted by the Commission of 276 schools, sent
         14       to the principals, sent to the School Advisory
         15       Council chair, and also to the district offices,
         16       was extremely positive.  Our biggest problem in
         17       the analysis of the data was, which was the most
         18       positive?  The school accountability reports, we
         19       are finding, are much more accurate than they've
         20       ever been.
         21            However, there's concern about the limited
         22       number of waivers at the School Board policy
         23       level, which is another area that the Commission
         24       needs to pursue.
         25            And last --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  What do you mean by
          2       that?  I mean, what -- what does that mean?
          3            DR. BIANCE:  It was the number of -- of
          4       requests for waivers of local School Board
          5       policy was very limited.  Approximately a third
          6       of the principals, and the School Advisory
          7       Council chairs, had stated that they had
          8       submitted waiver -- requests for waivers at the
          9       School Board level.
         10            Now, a lot of times those waivers -- what
         11       is eligible to waive and what is not eligible to
         12       waive is locally determined.
         13            But from the -- from first glance on that
         14       data, we need to take a closer look at what are
         15       the areas, and -- and you'll see as we go along,
         16       you know, what are the barriers to those
         17       implement-- that implementation.  What are the
         18       obstacles that -- we may not see it at the State
         19       level because we have this list and we have
         20       waivers submitted to the Commissioner, but is
         21       that really occurring at the district level.
         22            But in general, I -- I feel compelled to
         23       make this comment in reference to the Department
         24       as a result -- more than just this annual
         25       feedback survey.  And that is, this past year,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       we have seen a tremendous amount of
          2       follow-through and the recommendations the
          3       Commission has made and the Cabinet's approved.
          4            First of all, the curriculum framework
          5       revision and the Sunshine State Standards, the
          6       F-CAT was major, and is being recognized
          7       throughout the country for that bold move that
          8       Florida has made.
          9            But also something that may seem
         10       insignificant, but if you notice -- if you
         11       recall over the years, our document's pretty
         12       complex.  That's been revised.
         13            But they've also done a version that's more
         14       user friendly, excerpts from it.  That kind of
         15       proactivity, I believe, is going to pay
         16       dividends in the next couple of years.
         17            The future direction of the Commission is
         18       different.  We've gotten through the design
         19       phase, the developmental phase.  And the
         20       Commission needs to turn its energies to the
         21       area of monitoring and implementation.
         22            And I'd like to hit just a few of those
         23       areas.
         24            The first area that the Commission will be
         25       dealing with is a recommendation on raising the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       exit level requirements for a Florida diploma to
          2       meet the work force readiness and college
          3       entrance requirements.
          4            Here we've got 24 credits, a 1.5 GPA, and a
          5       high school competency test that's roughly
          6       ninth grade, and we have a remediation problem
          7       at the community college level.
          8            And that ties in to the secondary -- a
          9       development of a seamless K-16.  So that we look
         10       at what the exit levels are, but we also look at
         11       what the placement levels in college are, and
         12       what the levels that are expected for a student
         13       who leaves high school and goes directly into
         14       the work force.  And so that alignment needs to
         15       be -- be dealt with.
         16            The third area is the area of performance
         17       based budgeting.  There's a tremendous amount of
         18       discussion about it right now.  The concern is
         19       that the performance based budgeting be
         20       synchronized with Florida's system of school
         21       improvement and accountability.
         22            If not, there's the possibility of sending
         23       schools in two different directions.  And we've
         24       been working very closely with the (G2??) /*
         25       GAP Commission in that area.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Further, we need to take a look at the
          2       redesign of the annual feedback report.  Again,
          3       to shift from just the development and initial
          4       implementation of school reform and
          5       accountability, to more deal directly with those
          6       infrastructure and implementation type issues
          7       that the Governor was questioning earlier.
          8            And last, the Commission believes that it
          9       needs to measure, through an evaluation design,
         10       to get data on specific issues related to
         11       implementation, but particularly up-front,
         12       proactive research to deal with some of these
         13       problem areas.
         14            The organization -- to take a look at the
         15       organizational change in the school.  Changes in
         16       the schools, and the districts.
         17            Also to take a closer look at the teacher
         18       education programs and whether or not they are
         19       truly changing as we raise the level of
         20       requirements of student performance.  We're also
         21       raising the level of requirement of instruction
         22       in the classroom.
         23            And lastly, to deal with the whole issue of
         24       waivers and the deregulation and the charters.
         25            In closing, there has been a tremendous
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       amount of stakeholder involvement.  We currently
          2       have over 53,000 people involved in 2600 School
          3       Advisory Councils.  There has been consistency
          4       of policy in this state for the last five years,
          5       and it's beginning to pay off.
          6            And an indicator of that was last summer,
          7       the Education Commission of the States asked
          8       Kentucky and Florida to present in a national
          9       forum.  And the topic was:  Sustaining systemic
         10       reform.
         11            Thank you for the opportunity to present
         12       the report to you.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you very much,
         14       Michael.
         15            Question.
         16            Yes, sir.
         17            Hold on just a minute.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  I think you're really
         19       going in the right direction.  I commend you for
         20       that.
         21            There's one seeming inconsistency here that
         22       I need you to explain to me.  One of the
         23       recommendations in the report is to replace the
         24       high school competency test, I think, with a
         25       Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, F-CAT.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       Or Florida Writes -- and/or Florida Writes.
          2            Later in the agenda on the State Board of
          3       Education, Item 6 is a proposal for us to
          4       approve a 1.9 million dollar contract for
          5       administering the high school competency test.
          6            Tell -- tell me.
          7            DR. BIANCE:  Well, the F-CAT is in
          8       development right now.  It'll be field tested
          9       next year.  And what's -- what'll have to be
         10       done after that field testing, particularly if
         11       you're going to set a cut score for the exit
         12       level, there's going to need to be a -- there's
         13       going to need to be a -- some baseline data,
         14       for instance, run on it.  But, also, especially
         15       to get through that field testing to set that
         16       level.
         17            And so we're kind of in a transition period
         18       right now.  And the high school competency test
         19       is still a statutory requirement of a Florida
         20       diploma.
         21            TREASURER NELSON:  When will F-CAT be
         22       ready?
         23            DR. BIANCE:  If --
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  We'll use F-CAT --
         25       field test this year; next year, baseline data;
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       the following year would be the first full
          2       administration for accountability purposes.
          3            TREASURER NELSON:  For F-CAT.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Which would make
          5       it --
          6            TREASURER NELSON:  Two years ago away?
          7            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yeah.
          8            TREASURER NELSON:  So this 1.9 million
          9       dollar contract would be for two years.
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Actually three,
         11       I believe, to make sure that we've got it.
         12            Let me see if my testing people are out
         13       there.
         14            Hold up a number of appropriate fingers.
         15            MR. HEIDORN:  The contract is for two
         16       years --
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Two years.
         18            MR. HEIDORN:  -- with the possibility of a
         19       one-year extension.
         20            DR. BIANCE:  I believe it's in sync.
         21            TREASURER NELSON:  Okay.
         22            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
         23            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you, Mike.
         24            Thank you, Mike.
         25            That was Item 3 for information.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Item 4 and Item 5 together are
          2       recommendations of the Florida Education
          3       Standards Commission.
          4            And with us today, we have Dr. Charlotte
          5       Minnick Boroto to make a presentation regarding
          6       these two items.
          7            DR. MINNICK BOROTO:  Good morning,
          8       Governor, members of the State Board of
          9       Education.
         10            I'm pleased to be here today, along with
         11       several members of the Standards Commission, to
         12       present to you their recommendations.  And these
         13       recommendations deal with standards for
         14       teachers, and standards for teacher education
         15       programs, those of which Mike Biance was
         16       speaking earlier.
         17            Our recommendations deal with several
         18       issues.  The first are performance standards for
         19       continued approval of teacher education programs
         20       in colleges and universities in the state of
         21       Florida.  These do include the Educator
         22       Accomplished Practices.
         23            Our next recommendation has to do with
         24       standards for providing prospective teachers
         25       with the instruction necessary to teach students
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       having limited proficiency in English.
          2            I have the privilege --
          3            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
          4            DR. MINNICK BOROTO:  -- today of
          5       introducing three members of the Commission.
          6       They will present to you their recommendations,
          7       present any implications, and answer questions.
          8       I'd like them to come up.
          9            First is Dr. Rod McDavis.  He is the Dean
         10       of the College of Education at the
         11       University of Florida.
         12            Second, Dr. William L. Proctor.  He is the
         13       President of Flagler College.
         14            And, third, Mr. Steve Bouzianis.  Steve is
         15       the School Personnel Officer in Seminole County
         16       and is the President of the Florida School
         17       Personnel Association.
         18            Dr. McDavis will speak to you about the
         19       Educator Accomplished Practices.
         20            DR. McDAVIS:  Good morning,
         21       Governor Chiles, Commissioner Brogan, and
         22       Honorable members of the Cabinet.
         23            It's a pleasure for me to be with you today
         24       to talk about the Educator Accomplished
         25       Practices.  I'm here today to essentially
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       present two recommendations from our Education
          2       Standards Commission.
          3            First will be the Educator Accomplished
          4       Practices, and the second will be the standards
          5       for providing prospective teachers with the
          6       instruction necessary to teach students having
          7       limited proficiency in English.
          8            I am presenting the Educator Accomplished
          9       Practices first, because they form the basis for
         10       the other two recommendations of the Education
         11       Standards Commission.
         12            The 1993 Legislature, through language and
         13       specific appropriation 312, directed the Florida
         14       Education Standards Commission to develop
         15       competencies for teachers related to the goals
         16       of the Education Accountability Act.
         17            The Education Standards Commission
         18       developed the Educator Accomplished Practices,
         19       using the following framework:  One, high
         20       expectations for teachers, not minimums; two,
         21       continuous quality improvement; and three,
         22       performance based and results oriented
         23       standards, rather than seat time and
         24       completion.  The goal being to improve the
         25       quality of the product.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            What the Commission has identified,
          2       therefore, are the knowledge and skills
          3       necessary by needed -- by teachers to
          4       effectively implement Florida's system of school
          5       improvement and accountability.
          6            These practices are common to all teachers
          7       at all grade levels and all subject areas.  The
          8       Education Standards Commission developed a set
          9       of accomplished practices regarding what Florida
         10       teachers should know and be able to do at three
         11       benchmark levels:  Preprofessional, the first
         12       level, the point at which the individual
         13       graduates from a pre-service teacher education
         14       program.
         15            The second level:  Professional.  These are
         16       competencies teachers should be able to
         17       demonstrate between the three- and five-year
         18       mark in their professional careers, and
         19       accomplish the third level.  This is the level
         20       that every educator wants to achieve.  You're
         21       constantly seeking to improve yourself, because
         22       continuous improvement will always be necessary
         23       as a teacher.
         24            Governor and Commissioner Brogan, several
         25       school districts have already adopted these
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       accomplished practices for the evaluation of
          2       their teachers, Leon and Lee Counties, to name
          3       two.  Many other school districts have
          4       incorporated the accomplished practices into
          5       their master in-service plans.
          6            Moreover, several universities, both public
          7       and private, have incorporated the accomplished
          8       practices into their teacher education programs,
          9       and are using them to coach, guide, and evaluate
         10       their teacher interns.
         11            The Standards Commission believes the
         12       accomplished practices clearly are a shift from
         13       minimum competencies to high expectations and
         14       standards for all teachers.
         15            At this point, I'll stop and take any
         16       questions that you might have on the Educator
         17       Accomplished Practices.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, I'm just trying to
         19       think now -- right now you say that a couple of
         20       school districts have -- have agreed --
         21       you know, have accepted these.
         22            In the legislation that was set forward
         23       that required y'all to do this, does there need
         24       to be an acceptance by the School Board, is that
         25       just something that they can or can't decide
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       whether they want?
          2            DR. McDAVIS:  I think on the front end,
          3       several school districts wanted to begin to
          4       incorporate --
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yeah.
          6            DR. McDAVIS:  -- these into their
          7       evaluation plans on a voluntary basis.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Right.
          9            DR. McDAVIS:  I think once they are
         10       approved by this Board, I think all of the
         11       school districts will incorporate them into
         12       their evaluation plans.
         13            DR. BEDFORD:  Yes.
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Good.
         15            DR. McDAVIS:  So it won't be a maybe or a
         16       we'll see --
         17            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Right.
         18            DR. McDAVIS:  -- or that sort of thing.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Again, once the Board
         20       makes its finding and accepts them, then will
         21       all of at least the public universities accept
         22       them?
         23            DR. McDAVIS:  Without question.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         25            DR. McDAVIS:  We have already at the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       University of Florida incorporated many of the
          2       Educator Accomplished Practices into our teacher
          3       education program.  And I think I can speak for
          4       my colleagues, both at public and private
          5       universities in the state who are already doing
          6       the same kind of thing.
          7            So we are excited as a group of teacher
          8       educators, and as a group of deans and directors
          9       of teacher education programs in the state of
         10       Florida, to take a leadership role in
         11       incorporating these into our programs, because
         12       we think that we're one complete unit, that
         13       there should not be a gap between those teachers
         14       in the field, and what we're doing in colleges
         15       of education across the state.  So we're excited
         16       about these accomplished practices.
         17            The second recommendation that I would like
         18       to share with you has to do with the E-S-O-L
         19       pre-service training.  Section 231.17, the
         20       Florida Statutes, states that:  The State Board
         21       of Education shall adopt rules to require
         22       colleges of education in the State University
         23       System to provide prospective teachers with the
         24       instruction necessary to enable -- to enable
         25       them to teach students having limited
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       proficiency in English.  The instruction must be
          2       a required part of the teacher preparation
          3       program in each college.
          4            The rules must be based on the
          5       recommendations of the Education Standards
          6       Commission, and shall take effect with the
          7       1997-98 academic year.
          8            (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
          9       room.)
         10            DR. McDAVIS:  The Education Standards
         11       Commission undertook extensive data gathering
         12       efforts, including, but not limited to, working
         13       with the Multicultural Education Training
         14       Advocacy, META, attorneys, and the ESOL
         15       profession, and holding the -- and holding five
         16       regional public hearings to develop standards
         17       for such rules.
         18            The following are the recommendations of
         19       the Education Standards Commission:  One, that
         20       the educator accomplish practices at the
         21       preprofessional benchmark level be the
         22       knowledge, skills -- be the knowledge, skills,
         23       and dispositions to be included or incorporated
         24       into pre-service teacher preparation programs.
         25            Two, that the pre-service teacher
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       preparation programs embodying recommendation
          2       number 1 shall have fulfilled the statutory
          3       requirements set forth in Section 231.17 of the
          4       Florida Statutes.  These are the two
          5       recommendations that the Standards Commission
          6       makes relative to the responsibility that we
          7       were given.
          8            And what this essentially means is that we
          9       have incorporated into the Educator Accomplished
         10       Practices those aspects that were given to us --
         11       those recommendations that were given to us, to
         12       help prepare teachers to deal with E-S-O-L
         13       students.
         14            So rather than having a separate set of
         15       practices, we believe that inclusion or
         16       incorporation was the way to go.
         17            (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
         18       room.)
         19            DR. McDAVIS:  And so that's what we're
         20       recommending.
         21            DR. BEDFORD:  I wonder -- if I could just
         22       interrupt a minute --
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         24            DR. BEDFORD:  -- I might be able to stop
         25       some of the confusion.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            We will be coming back to you with rules to
          2       implement their recommendations.  Today we're
          3       accepting their reports.  We will come back with
          4       specific rules.
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Fine.
          6            Any other questions?
          7            Thank you, Dean.
          8            TREASURER NELSON:  Governor, I'd just say
          9       that I think y'all are doing important work
         10       here.  And I commend you.  Because reforming the
         11       colleges of education, I think, has been long
         12       overdue.
         13            Now, are you getting the cooperation that
         14       you all need from the colleges of education?
         15            DR. McDAVIS:  I --
         16            DR. BEDFORD:  They are --
         17            DR. McDAVIS:  Yes.
         18            TREASURER NELSON:  I know you're --
         19            DR. McDAVIS:  I feel --
         20            TREASURER NELSON:  -- going to say yes.
         21            DR. McDAVIS:  Yes.  Yes, sir.
         22            TREASURER NELSON:  I know you're going to
         23       say yes.
         24            But what about the rest of them?
         25            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Definitely at the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       University of Florida.
          2            DR. McDAVIS:  Yes.  With the -- the
          3       colleges of education are cooperating.  There
          4       are a number of faculty and others in the
          5       colleges that are working very closely with the
          6       Standards Commission, as well as with the
          7       Accountability Commission so that we move
          8       forward as a -- as a total entity in the state
          9       of Florida.
         10            I think it's critical at this juncture with
         11       the Sunshine State Standards and the other
         12       initiatives, that under Commissioner Brogan's
         13       leadership, coming through the Department of
         14       Education, that all of us work together, because
         15       we have the same goal, and that is to improve
         16       the education of young children in this state.
         17            TREASURER NELSON:  Do we have the clear
         18       capability today of hiring, for example, as a
         19       chemistry teacher someone who has not gone
         20       through an educational curriculum, and might
         21       have a Ph.D. in chemistry?
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  The answer to that
         23       is, yes, Commissioner, but.  The "yes, but" is
         24       that currently while we can hire someone with
         25       that kind of a background, I still feel as
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       though the process as it exists today, and we're
          2       looking to change, is that we don't give enough
          3       credit for lifetime experience, state of the art
          4       knowledge, et cetera.  And too often we treat
          5       those people in the system much like we treat an
          6       eighteen year old who will start at the
          7       University of Florida's College of Education
          8       this year.  That's one of the reforms in
          9       certification that we want to make.
         10            There's a great deal to be said for real
         11       world experience and a state of the art
         12       knowledge.  And that keeps good people out, by
         13       the way.
         14            TREASURER NELSON:  I'll never forget, when
         15       I was at Melbourne High School, they had the
         16       first Chinese course taught in the state of
         17       Florida.  And you know who it was taught by?  A
         18       medical missionary from China who spoke fluent
         19       Chinese.
         20            And yet I remember my -- my principal,
         21       Dr. B. Frank Brown, having to go through all
         22       kind of hoops --
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  B. Frank Brown.
         24            TREASURER NELSON:  -- to get Dr. Fellows, a
         25       medical doctor, so that he could teach Chinese
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       at Melbourne High School in 1959.
          2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And while it got
          3       somewhat better, it is still not where it needs
          4       to be.  That is still one of the things we need
          5       to change.
          6            I also want to pick up on something.
          7       Dr. McDavis has talked largely about
          8       pre-service, as well he should.  These are
          9       primarily targeted at pre-service, how do we
         10       prepare people to become teachers.
         11            But as he also mentioned, and the Governor
         12       brought up in his remarks, the important
         13       residual is the fact that ultimately this will
         14       change the evaluation process of educators all
         15       across the state of Florida.
         16            And by virtue of that fact then, change how
         17       we go about staff development activities with
         18       educators so that ultimately, not only will we
         19       be producing educators from our public and
         20       private universities who have these skills, this
         21       will have the effect of ultimately changing the
         22       skill level of all educators in the state.  And
         23       that's an important part of the residual impact
         24       it'll have.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Dean, this is a more
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       specific question, and I recognize that.
          2            But we have just begun the wiring of all of
          3       our schools in Florida.  I think all of us
          4       recognize that one of our problems today is that
          5       basically our core of teachers that are out
          6       there are a little bit afraid of the
          7       technologies there.  They don't exactly know how
          8       to deal with the fact that the students know a
          9       hell of a lot more about the computers -- or
         10       some of them do -- than they do.  That's part of
         11       what happens with the whole thing.
         12            And we know that we've got to have a
         13       tremendous effort to train and retrain even the
         14       teachers that we have out there.
         15            But are we doing something in the -- in the
         16       curriculum now, in the courses we're taking, to
         17       see that all of the new teachers that come out
         18       are proficient, have sort of self-reliance that
         19       they're going to be able to cope with, and be
         20       able to start moving as the software and all of
         21       this continues to just balloon and mushroom as
         22       it goes forward.
         23            DR. McDAVIS:  Yes, Governor, we are.  As a
         24       matter of fact, this fall, for the first time,
         25       all of the teacher education majors in state
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                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       universities are required to take at least one
          2       course in instructional technology, which deals
          3       with the subject matter that you've referenced.
          4            But beyond that, what colleges of education
          5       are doing all over the state is integrating
          6       technology throughout the entire teacher
          7       education curriculum.
          8            We think that's important.  We think we
          9       have to move as fast as we can to, number one,
         10       integrate it into the curriculum.  But beyond
         11       that, we think we need to get out front.  And
         12       that's what we're working hard to do.
         13            So we understand the importance and the
         14       value of technology as we move into the
         15       21st century.  And what we're doing through our
         16       colleges and schools of education across the
         17       state is talking with one another, collaborating
         18       and cooperating, trying to share our ideas,
         19       trying to help one another move ahead so that we
         20       can be out on the front end of the technology
         21       curve.
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And, Governor, we've
         23       given you a lot of written information this
         24       morning.  If you're like me, I like the
         25       executive summaries on things.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Contained within your information is a
          2       breakdown of what these accomplished practices
          3       are that Rod is talking about.
          4            And, for example, just as we did the
          5       Sunshine State Standards, Accomplish Practice 12
          6       is technology, and essentially shows you there
          7       exactly what a teacher should know and be
          8       expected to do regarding technology, as well as
          9       the other accomplished practices.  And it's --
         10       that's a nice piece of down and dirty work as
         11       well.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, Dean.
         13            DR. McDAVIS:  Quite welcome.
         14            I'd like to introduce my colleague,
         15       Dr. Bill Proctor, who's going to present the
         16       performance standards for continued program
         17       approval.
         18            DR. PROCTOR:  Thank you, Dr. McDavis.
         19            Governor Chiles, Commissioner Brogan,
         20       members of the State Board.
         21            I serve as President of Flagler College,
         22       but I also serve as Chairman of the Board of
         23       Trustees for the Florida School for the Deaf and
         24       the Blind.  So I have an interest in both ends,
         25       teacher preparation, and also the effectiveness
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       of teachers that we hire at the school.
          2            I'd first like to strongly endorse my
          3       colleague's support for the ESOL provisions.  At
          4       the Florida School for the Deaf and the Blind,
          5       we have a very complex situation.  We have to
          6       deal with ESOL in the context of also sometimes
          7       language training, teaching of actually two
          8       languages dealing with students in that
          9       context.
         10            So I think the inclusion of the ESOL in the
         11       Accomplished Practices is certainly the best way
         12       to proceed.
         13            Mr. Nelson, you asked about could -- would
         14       the schools of education cooperate in the
         15       implementation of the accomplished practices.
         16            That leads me into the standards for
         17       continuing program approval.  The accomplished
         18       practices are built into those standards.  So
         19       it's not a question of cooperation, it's a
         20       question of whether or not you want to be
         21       approved, assuming that these standards are put
         22       into regulation.  So the answer to your question
         23       is yes.
         24            Governor Chiles, with technology, it's been
         25       pointed out that Item 12 in the Accomplished
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       Practices is a technological standard.
          2            And I would tell you just at a small school
          3       such as Flagler, we've also considerably
          4       diminished our operating reserves simply to put
          5       in additional laboratories for teacher training
          6       in that area.
          7            The continuing -- the standards for
          8       continuing program approval are shifting
          9       dramatically.  They are shifting from resource
         10       and processed analysis, which has been the
         11       standard for years, to graduate performance
         12       measures.
         13            I was thinking today, I started my teaching
         14       in Florida some 40 years ago.  So educational
         15       reforms are not new to me.
         16            If I could leave you with -- with one
         17       thought, it would be this:  That in all the
         18       reforms that I have seen come down the pike over
         19       those 40 years, I have seen nothing comparable
         20       to the accomplished practices, or the continuing
         21       program approval standards comparable in the
         22       sense that you're making a decided shift from
         23       resources, processes, measuring seat time,
         24       counting courses, to graduate performance
         25       measures, what can the teacher actually do at
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       the time you certify them.
          2            I'd welcome any questions.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
          4            Are there questions?
          5            Thank you very much.
          6            DR. PROCTOR:  Thank you, Governor.
          7            MR. BOUZIANIS:  Good morning, and it's an
          8       honor to become -- come before you today.
          9            My name is Steve Bouzianis, and I'm
         10       representing my personnel colleagues from around
         11       the state.  And I would just like to very
         12       briefly endorse the comments made by my
         13       Standards Commission colleagues, and also my
         14       fellow personnel administrators.
         15            We feel strongly in all of the
         16       recommendations before you, because we feel that
         17       a more qualified teacher is going to lead to
         18       improved student performance.
         19            We are very excited about this, because we
         20       feel like these standards are really going to
         21       upgrade the teaching profession around the
         22       state.
         23            Thank you very much.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         25            Thank you all very much for that --
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you --
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- report.
          3            DR. BEDFORD:  -- Charlotte.
          4            Rod, for the record, did you say that this
          5       was something that U of F was number 1 in also?
          6            DR. McDAVIS:  Yes, sir.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Let's see.  Did we have a
          8       motion on that --
          9            DR. BEDFORD:  We have not had a motion.
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move, Governor.
         11            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Been moved and seconded.
         13            Without objection, it's approved.
         14            DR. BEDFORD:  And same for Item 5, we would
         15       need a motion.
         16            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move.
         17            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         19            Without objection, Item 5 is --
         20            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 6 is proposed contract
         21       for the Florida High School Competency Test.
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval,
         23       Governor.
         24            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         25            Without objection, it's approved.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                             STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            DR. BEDFORD:  That concludes the State
          2       Board of Education.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
          4            (The State Board of Education Agenda was
          5       concluded.)
          6                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Career Education.
          2            DR. BEDFORD:  State Board of Career
          3       Education.
          4            Item 1 is minutes of the meeting held
          5       March 28th, 1996.
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
          7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion and second.
          9            Without objection, it's approved.
         10            DR. BEDFORD:  Item 2 are reports of the
         11       Florida Council on Vocational Education.
         12            We have with us in our audience
         13       Chuck Kronz, Chairman; and Eloise Sarlo,
         14       Vice-Chairman, who will come forward at this
         15       time.
         16            MR. KRONZ:  Good morning, Governor, and
         17       Cabinet.
         18            I'm Chuck Kronz, current Chairman of
         19       Florida Council, Vocational Education.
         20            With me this morning is Eloise Sarlo, our
         21       Vice-Chair.  And in the audience is Hines Boyd,
         22       one of our council members; Jim Culligan, our
         23       Executive Director; and Bill Roberts from staff.
         24            We have three reports in front of you this
         25       morning for consideration.  We have brief
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       summaries of the two reports.  I will summarize
          2       two of them, and Eloise will give you a brief
          3       summary on the Council's visit to Lee County.
          4            The Council is charged by Federal
          5       legislation to advise the State Board on ways to
          6       enhance the involvement of local labor
          7       organizations in state vocational education
          8       programs in order to assess the potential
          9       that -- council's conducted a survey of local
         10       labor organizations throughout the state of
         11       Florida.
         12            Results of the survey indicate that members
         13       of the organized labor organizations strongly
         14       support Commissioner Brogan's push for higher
         15       academic standards for graduation, want to
         16       participate more fully in education of our young
         17       people through such activities as classroom
         18       visits, participation in career figures, and
         19       monitoring of students.
         20            They want to also be invited to -- and want
         21       to work in close relationships with the guidance
         22       personnel.  And they particularly want students
         23       to be exposed to the rule of labor in
         24       advancement of American society.
         25            To get down to specific findings of the
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       survey, members of the local labor organizations
          2       favor the seven period day to allow students to
          3       have time for elective courses; endorse
          4       qualified examinations of basic skills; believe
          5       that every student should earn at least one
          6       vocational credit; urge the acceptance of some
          7       vocational courses and fulfillment of
          8       high school academic requirements; support the
          9       idea that every student should have some work
         10       experience, either paid or voluntary, while in
         11       school.
         12            Advocate the certification of vocational
         13       teachers by the State.  Want computer keyboard
         14       skills to be taught to elementary school
         15       students.  And by an overwhelming majority of
         16       94 percent, agree that vocational, slash,
         17       applied technology education is helpful to our
         18       work force.
         19            Having taken into consideration the results
         20       of the survey, and the comments that were
         21       offered in the open response section, the
         22       Council offers to the State Board of Education
         23       the recommendations and endorsements found on
         24       page 17 of the Council's report.
         25            Our second report in front of you for your
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       consideration is the Council's report on
          2       allocation of spending of funds provided to
          3       Florida under provisions of the Carl D. Perkins
          4       Vocational Applied Technology Education
          5       Amendments of 1990.
          6            This document provides a breakdown of uses
          7       of funds for secondary, postsecondary, consumer,
          8       and homemaking, tech prep, and Committee Based
          9       Organizations, and correctional education
         10       programs in our state.
         11            We found that the Florida Department of
         12       Education and the Correction Education School
         13       Authority have used these funds in an equitable
         14       awareness of the State's cultural and geographic
         15       diversity, with an operational mode of fairness
         16       and service to students and employers.
         17            Likewise, we found a clear indication of
         18       appreciation for the value of the involvement
         19       and innovation.
         20            In addition to the numbers, the Council
         21       report also contains a description of the tech
         22       prep initiatives and the programs operated by
         23       Community Based Organizations.  Therein lies its
         24       uniqueness.  We are especially appreciative of
         25       the work done by Community Based Organizations
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       area of dropout prevention, and retrieval.
          2            The CBOs is -- as we call them -- fill an
          3       educational niche, which established educational
          4       institutions sometime lack the resources to
          5       fill.
          6            They can reach out beyond the boundaries of
          7       the school yard and help save the futures of
          8       young people who are troubled, alienated,
          9       disadvantaged, or just need a little extra
         10       attention.
         11            The schools themselves cannot do
         12       everything, as you well know.  As a society, we
         13       are fortunate that Community Based Organizations
         14       are on hand and willing to lend a helping hand.
         15            Every student, every future contributor to
         16       the well-being of our nation that's available in
         17       advancement of our society, and the progress and
         18       stability of our economy, lies in our hands.
         19            Eloise will present the last report.
         20            Thank you.
         21            MS. SARLO:  Good morning.
         22            I'm pleased to present to you the Council's
         23       report on its April visit to Lee County.
         24            Florida's Council on Vocational Education
         25       has a mandate to analyze how well vocational
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       education and training programs represent a
          2       consistent, integrated, and coordinated approach
          3       to meeting Florida's economic needs.
          4            The Council believes it's important to meet
          5       in many different locations in our state to
          6       explore the varying needs of students and
          7       employers.
          8            For example, we wanted to know if young
          9       people in southwest Florida found it necessary
         10       to leave the area for employment.  We found a
         11       top priority is to diversify the local economy,
         12       and expand economic development.
         13            The Lee County School District and Edison
         14       Community College worked together with business
         15       and industry to provide education and employment
         16       opportunities.
         17            Council members visited the campus of
         18       Lee County High Tech Center, North, in
         19       Cape Coral.  This well-planned facility opened
         20       in 1993.
         21            Administrators pointed out that the
         22       center's flexibility makes it easy to set up
         23       classes to meet specific employer needs, and it
         24       has been a key factor in bringing business and
         25       industry to that area.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Sony and Carnival Travel have just brought
          2       their businesses into the Lee County area.
          3            The Council also conducted a public meeting
          4       in Fort Myers.  The Council has a record of well
          5       attended, successful public meetings.  And
          6       I believe this is because we involve local
          7       people in the planning of these meetings.  And
          8       they invite business, education, and labor
          9       communities to participate.
         10            There is, however, no such thing as a
         11       typical F/COVE public comment meeting, because
         12       the format for each is unique.
         13            Participants at the public meeting
         14       emphasize that quality programs are needed to
         15       target students who are not college bound.
         16       Because teachers and counselors may have never
         17       worked outside of the education system, an
         18       innovative program in Lee County places
         19       educators in summer jobs such as high-rise
         20       construction, and other such jobs.
         21            People should never have to apologize for
         22       the way they earn their living, said one of the
         23       business people at the F/COVE public meeting.
         24            The Council always looks for coordination
         25       among providers and customers of vocational
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       education and job training.  And cooperation is
          2       evident in Lee County and the surrounding area.
          3            The Council is also pleased to report that
          4       real articulation is taking place among the high
          5       schools, vo-tech centers, and Edison Community
          6       College.
          7            Thank you.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, ma'am.
          9            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you, Chuck.
         10            Thank you, Eloise.
         11            Thank you.
         12            That concludes the items.  That was for
         13       information.
         14            TREASURER NELSON:  May I ask a question,
         15       Governor?
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
         17            TREASURER NELSON:  Do I understand that the
         18       Council is being abolished?
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yes, sir.  This is as
         20       a change that comes via the legislation with
         21       Jobs and Education Partnership, the Work Force
         22       Development, the Enterprise Florida move.
         23            About 35 states, including Florida, are
         24       making the transition via those kinds of
         25       methodologies away from having a state
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       centralized system.  And I mean that in a
          2       positive sense, not a negative sense, with work
          3       force development boards, et cetera.
          4            What we will be doing, because we are
          5       mandated to do so, is continue to come to the
          6       State Board of Education, who in this capacity,
          7       serves as the State Board of Career Education,
          8       via the requirement to have such, and in the
          9       Federal legislation, but will be coming to you
         10       now with information and recommendations,
         11       et cetera, from, we believe, what will be Jobs
         12       and Education Partnerships and Work Force
         13       Development, et cetera.
         14            TREASURER NELSON:  So there will be some
         15       kind of council that will replace them to
         16       satisfy the requirements of the Carl Perkins
         17       Federal Act.
         18            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Yes, sir.  This
         19       group -- and before they leave today, we need to
         20       do a couple of things.  One, we need to thank
         21       not only these people, but all of the people who
         22       over the years have served as a part of F/COVE,
         23       Florida Council on Vocational Education.
         24            And as I tell people all the time, you
         25       don't necessarily change from something because
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       that something was bad, you simply are moving to
          2       a new way of thinking.
          3            I think in the State's wisdom, as we move
          4       toward more localized and regionalized --
          5            (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
          6            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  -- activities
          7       relative to Work Force Development and Jobs and
          8       Education Partnerships, et cetera, we're making
          9       now the transition to that shift.
         10            But that should in no way diminish the role
         11       and the good work done by over the years the
         12       Florida Council on Vocational Education, not
         13       just with these good folks here, but all those
         14       who have served.
         15            These folks, by the way, are talking
         16       currently with Enterprise Florida, Work Force
         17       Development, to see if, in fact, there might be
         18       other services that they could provide down the
         19       road with those groups as well, Commissioner.
         20            TREASURER NELSON:  What will be the
         21       creature that will replace the Council?
         22            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  TBA.
         23            TREASURER NELSON:  What's --
         24            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  To be announced
         25       creature.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                         STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            DR. BEDFORD:  Thank you.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, sir.
          3            (The State Board of Career Education Agenda
          4       was concluded.)
          5                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Board of Trustees.
          2            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 1, minutes.
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Motion.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
          6            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Second.
          7            Without objection, minutes are adopted.
          8            MS. WETHERELL:  Substitute Item 2 is a
          9       purchase agreement for Belle Meade CARL project
         10       and a waiver of survey.
         11            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --
         13            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- seconded.
         15            Without objection, it's approved.
         16            MS. WETHERELL:  Substitute Item 3 is an
         17       option agreement for Belle Meade CARL project
         18       and a waiver of survey.
         19            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         21            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         22            Without objection, it's approved.
         23            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 4 is an option
         24       agreement for Lake Wales Ridge CARL project.
         25            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          2            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          4            Without objection, it's approved.
          5            MS. WETHERELL:  Item 5, two option
          6       agreements for Florida Keys ecosystem --
          7            (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
          8            MS. WETHERELL:  -- CARL project, and
          9       designation of the Game Commission as the
         10       managing agency.
         11            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Motion.
         12            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
         13            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
         14            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         15            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         16            Without objection, it's approved.
         17            MS. WETHERELL:  Substitute Item 6 is a
         18       modification of a five-year submerged land
         19       lease, and authorization for severance.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor, I
         21       just have some questions on this.  I'm not
         22       opposed to it, I was opposed to it two weeks
         23       ago.
         24            But looking at it, this seems to be a
         25       unique type of lease where we do have a person
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       who is not -- as I thought originally --
          2       involved in the slip rental facility.  He's
          3       involved more in a -- as I understand it, a
          4       construction and repair facility, and does need
          5       it 25 years.
          6            My concern would be that if he, in essence,
          7       does get out of the repair business and goes
          8       into slip rental business, I would like to have
          9       it come before the Cabinet for further review
         10       since we're giving him a 25-year.
         11            Would he be opposed to an amendment such as
         12       that, Ginger; do you know?
         13            MS. WETHERELL:  No, sir.  I understand that
         14       he's not.  And --
         15            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Okay.
         16            MS. WETHERELL:  -- his current business
         17       includes yacht building, as well --
         18            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Right.
         19            MS. WETHERELL:  -- as yacht repair.
         20            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  So I would
         21       move the item, Governor, with the -- a special
         22       lease condition and approval of a lease
         23       modification by the Board of Trustees will be
         24       required in the event the operations facility is
         25       changed to be primarily a slip rental facility.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  And I would second
          2       the motion as amended, Governor.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  It's been
          4       moved and seconded as amended.
          5            Without objection, it's approved.
          6            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Governor,
          7       one more point which is --
          8            (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
          9            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  -- what I
         10       raised the last time was a concern that we are
         11       perhaps allowing staff, through our policy, to
         12       give maybe too many 25-year leases.
         13            I believe that the Board of Trustees,
         14       between 1968 and 1988, gave approximately
         15       36 long-term leases.  Twenty of them were
         16       25 year leases, and 13 of them were between
         17       5 and 25 years.
         18            We adopted a long-term leasing policy in
         19       the year of '88.  And since then, the Board of
         20       Trustees has approved 32 long-term leases in the
         21       last eight years, 29 of them for 25 years, four
         22       of them between 5 and 25.
         23            In that same time period, the staff has
         24       approved 93 long-term leases, 82 of them,
         25       25 years; and 11 of them from 5 to 25 years.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            I'm very concerned, Governor, of the
          2       1500 active leases we have now, that 161 of them
          3       are -- are the 25-year leases.
          4            I mean, it very well used to always provide
          5       for a five-year lease, now it automatically
          6       appears people are going to be asking for the
          7       25s.
          8            And I'd just like to have a -- maybe staff
          9       bring back some recommendations on this, because
         10       some parts of the state, we may be very, very
         11       hesitant about giving a 25-year lease, and may
         12       wish to review it every five years.
         13            So if I can just move the staff bring back
         14       to this Board recommendations for revision of
         15       the rules that address, at a minimum, the fees
         16       charged for the leases and easements, including
         17       those issued for the public utilities, the
         18       justification of public benefit of extended term
         19       leases, and a need and public benefit of special
         20       discounts.
         21            Just a --
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
         23            MS. WETHERELL:  That's fine.  We're happy
         24       with that, and think it needs to be done.  So
         25       that's fine.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Just
          2       housekeeping.
          3            MS. WETHERELL:  Okay.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Pardon?
          5            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Just
          6       housekeeping.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
          8            MS. WETHERELL:  All right.  That's all of
          9       our agenda.  Thank you very much.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         11            (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
         12       Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
         13                             *
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Marine Fisheries.
          2            MR. SHELFER:  Good morning.
          3            Item A is minutes.
          4            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  So move.
          5            MR. SHELFER:  These are minutes from the
          6       June 25th and July 9th --
          7            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
          8            MR. SHELFER:  -- Cabinet --
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and --
         10            MR. SHELFER:  Item B is a rule amendment --
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Wait a minute.
         12            MR. SHELFER:  -- that's been --
         13            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         14            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Seconded.
         15            Without objection, they're approved.
         16            MR. SHELFER:  Item B is a rule amendment to
         17       extend permitting requirements for commercial
         18       harvest of reef fish on state waters of the Gulf
         19       of Mexico.
         20            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         21            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Second.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         23            Without objection, it's approved.
         24            MR. SHELFER:  Item C is rule amendments and
         25       repeals to eliminate provisions affecting
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                                 November 7, 1996
          1       aquaculture.
          2            COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD:  Motion.
          3            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  Second.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
          5            Without objection, it's approved.
          6            MR. SHELFER:  Item D is a rule amendment to
          7       adjust commercial daily harvest limits for
          8       Spanish mackerel on the east coast to conform
          9       with Federal rule changes.
         10            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Move approval.
         11            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         13            Without objection, it's approved.
         14            MR. SHELFER:  Item E is a rule amendment to
         15       set tarp and tag levels for 1997.
         16            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Move approval.
         17            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Second.
         18            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Moved and seconded.
         19            Without objection, it's approved.
         20            (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
         21            MR. SHELFER:  Item F is an emergency rule
         22       to establish allowable harvesting gear for
         23       mullet and reduced season closures.
         24            Beach or haul seines used to harvest mullet
         25       will be limited to 500 square feet of total
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       material, including netting and any other
          2       attached material attached to the fishing
          3       surface of the net.
          4            The Commission has found an emergency to
          5       exist because of the threat of unregulated
          6       amounts of tarpaulin gear that may be used to
          7       harvest mullet during the impending roe mullet
          8       season.
          9            Mullet remain an overfished and recovering
         10       resource in Florida.  And the introduction of
         11       new, large scaled gear constitutes a threat to
         12       the continuing health and abundance of the
         13       species.
         14            Permanent rules to limit net and net type
         15       gear used for mullet have been challenged in the
         16       Division of Administrative Hearings, and the
         17       challenge will not be concluded before the end
         18       of the roe season, thus necessitating this
         19       action.
         20            We have available to answer questions today
         21       our Chairman, Dr. Bob Marston; our
         22       Vice-Chairman, Bob Woodward; and Major
         23       Bruce Buxton of the Marine Patrol, if you have
         24       any questions of him.
         25            We have a number of people to speak, pro
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       and con.  I have suggested, subject to your
          2       approval, of course, a total of 15 minutes per
          3       side, if that's -- if that's okay.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.
          5            MR. SHELFER:  The first person to speak
          6       will be J. Patrick Floyd.
          7            MR. FLOYD:  Permission, Governor, to --
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.
          9            MR. FLOYD:  -- approach to hand out --
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes.
         11            MR. FLOYD:  I have a few handouts here.
         12       These aren't actually handouts --
         13            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  I'll pass them down
         14       for you, if you like.
         15            MR. FLOYD:  Okay.  Thank you.  I think I
         16       have the right number there.
         17            This is a letter to you, and also an
         18       affidavit from probably the only person in the
         19       state of Florida that has experience in dealing
         20       with the tarp materials and nonmesh type gear
         21       that is attempted to be used legally --
         22       attempted to be used -- in the harvesting of
         23       mullet.
         24            This particular man, who I represent here
         25       today, is a Clinton Moore.  He and his brother,
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          1       Mark Moore, run a small -- trying to run a small
          2       commercial fishing business on the shores of
          3       St. Joe Bay in Gulf County.
          4            They probably have, if they're lucky, from
          5       the commercial fishing operations, generate
          6       $15,000 each during a year.
          7            They have struggled to find a legal way,
          8       not using any type of -- of gill or entangling
          9       nets, but a legal way to be able to continue
         10       their harvesting of mullet.  And I want -- have
         11       a few things that I would like to go over with
         12       you with respect to this rule.
         13            This rule is required by law to be refused
         14       and denied.  You know the particular standard,
         15       the high standard, that is required to be shown
         16       by the Marine Fisheries Commission to show by
         17       facts -- not suppositions -- by facts a clear
         18       and immediate danger to the health, safety, and
         19       welfare of the people of this state.  And to
         20       show it in the documents.
         21            There has been no showing.  Unfortunately,
         22       because I know there has been some suggestion
         23       of -- in the press or otherwise, moving them to
         24       this without the factual basis to be able to
         25       develop it.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            And unfortunately, maybe for that
          2       particular concern, but I think fortunately for
          3       fairness, and for legal concerns, that burden,
          4       and that step -- establishment has not been
          5       met.  And you're -- as the agency head in terms
          6       of approving that, need to make that -- be aware
          7       of that.
          8            Let's get into the facts.  And there's
          9       some -- the facts here establish that actually
         10       what we're doing in challenging this particular
         11       rule, this rule would increase the take of
         12       mullet, this emergency rule.  And let's take a
         13       look at that.
         14            The -- let's take first a look at the --
         15       the requirement, as we know, even if it's not an
         16       emergency rule.  They're required to go in and
         17       establish that there's a threat or danger to the
         18       health and safe biological scientific level of
         19       mullet stocks.  It's not here.
         20            You only have to look to your own
         21       Dr. Mahmoudi of the Florida Marine Research
         22       Institute to be able to establish that.
         23            His data is in there.  You remember in
         24       1993, the -- because of the concern of the State
         25       of Florida over the mullet stocks, there was a
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          1       mullet management plan that was -- that was
          2       enacted.  It was the result of all the
          3       biological and scientific data to determine what
          4       levels need -- of harvest could be allowed to
          5       safely recover the resource.
          6            Dr. Mahmoudi did it.  All of them say it's
          7       still -- I took depositions yesterday and the
          8       day before to confirm this, and I have these
          9       depositions I'm going to insert into the -- into
         10       the record here.
         11            And I -- and I request anybody from the
         12       Marine Fisheries to come up and challenge any of
         13       the specific facts or details that they find
         14       that are incorrect here.
         15            In 19-- those particular restrictions that
         16       were put in place in 1993 continue on the books
         17       to this time.
         18            Those projections show that the -- that it
         19       would be -- and I have this in the letter before
         20       you there -- that the level that was needed to
         21       be reached -- a 35 spawning potential ratio
         22       would be reached in five to seven years.  That
         23       has not changed, been repeated in every type of
         24       study.
         25            Now, the -- the actual studies show that in
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                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       1994-95, instead of the expected 28 to
          2       37 percent reduction -- this is before the net
          3       ban was in effect -- show that reduction of a 28
          4       to 34 percent, there was a 42.8 percent
          5       reduction during the roe season.
          6            So the actual restrictions in '93 lowered
          7       the take of mullet more than was even expected
          8       or necessary at that time to achieve this level,
          9       which was said to be as biologically safe and
         10       sound to achieve it in five to seven years with
         11       the proper balancing.
         12            Now, let's look at it, the statistics.  In
         13       1994 -- we're talking about roe season here --
         14       1994-95, the -- the harvest of mullet during
         15       that roe season was 8.3 billion pounds.
         16            As I say, it was 5 to 8 percent lower than
         17       that necessary to meet the State's acceptable
         18       level.  That's under the mullet management
         19       program.
         20            In 95-96 -- the data is right there in
         21       front of you.  You've got it right here from
         22       Dr. Mahmoudi.  1996, the mullet take was down to
         23       2.27 million pounds.
         24            Now, it's interesting that you've heard
         25       comments about that the fishermen are still
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                                 November 7, 1996
          1       taking -- have been during that season taking
          2       mullet by illegal means, by using gill nets and
          3       reporting them as cast nets.  Well, that figure
          4       even includes that amount, which, by
          5       enforcement, according to the Marine Patrol,
          6       would be eliminated.
          7            Now -- so we have a reduction below the
          8       level in 1995 and '6 of over 6 million pounds
          9       below the level that's necessary to meet the
         10       objective, the scientific biological objective
         11       established and still in place by the
         12       State of Florida.
         13            Let's talk about this.  Now, this
         14       particular -- in the -- in these -- use of these
         15       other type of gear, which are legal, the
         16       particular individual who used it found that he
         17       tried to use 2-- he's tried to use the solid
         18       tarp that they're talking about.  It doesn't
         19       even work.  It's not even applicable.  They
         20       can't even use it.
         21            He tried to use another type material
         22       called shade material that the water will --
         23       allowed to be flowed through.  Two hundred feet
         24       extra on either side of it.  That was what he
         25       was -- he was cited for, for that.
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                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            The judge said, that's not -- the
          2       constitutional amendment regulated -- wait a
          3       minute.  It regulated 500 square feet of open
          4       mesh netting.  Open mesh netting.  Webbing.
          5       Says it right in there.
          6            And the picture they have was of the
          7       turtles and the porpoises and everything being
          8       caught in what, traditional netting.  It didn't
          9       include it.
         10            And that was in Gulf County.  All the other
         11       places in the state, they still restrict any
         12       type of material that's used that -- through
         13       which water will flow, be it lady's hose, cotton
         14       sheets, two car bodies attached to a net,
         15       doesn't make any difference.
         16            If water goes through it, they enforce it
         17       as being included in the mesh area under the
         18       constitutional amendment.  Except for
         19       Gulf County.  That takes care of all of that.
         20       The solid material we've already talked about is
         21       not even -- can be used.
         22            You see that in the affidavit.
         23            But let's talk about what he says that in
         24       the mesh that he can use, that he's been able to
         25       survive on in trying to attempt this, that
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                                 November 7, 1996
          1       it's -- that it's 10 percent as efficient as the
          2       previous as what it was the same -- a net of the
          3       same size before the constitutional amendment.
          4            And it's only 10 percent, in the best
          5       conditions, when the wind's not blowing, the
          6       tide's not flowing out in it.  And you have a
          7       smooth, even bottom drag net, it's 10 percent at
          8       best the efficiency of -- in terms of take --
          9       the 500 square foot of mesh area.
         10            Now, we know in 1995-96, how many cast
         11       net -- we know that there was two million
         12       two hundred -- two million two hundred and
         13       twenty-seven thousand pounds of mullet taken
         14       during mullet roe season, 95-96.
         15            And guess what we know, too.  We know how
         16       many cast net -- how many ones were taken by
         17       cast net, even including the supposed illegal
         18       capture by the gill nets.  And the total amount
         19       of that came to two million seventy thousand
         20       pounds.
         21            So -- and there's only two type of gear,
         22       they admit that.  There's only two type of gear
         23       left:  cast net and seine net.
         24            So if you take the cast net out, there's
         25       only two million pounds left that the seine net
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       took -- could have taken, even including the
          2       other gear, during 1995-96 roe season.
          3            So we've got 200,000 pounds of mullet taken
          4       during the whole season by the whole state of
          5       Florida.
          6            Now, as reference, the -- from the facts
          7       that we look at, we see that there's a
          8       10 percent increase that he can have.
          9       10 percent.
         10            So if we say we take the 200,000 pounds,
         11       it's simple -- absolutely so -- in their
         12       documents.  Two hundred thousand pounds,
         13       10 percent increase, that's 20,000 pounds.
         14            It would take 300 times that amount to even
         15       approach the level of stocks that would be
         16       necessary to endanger the 35 percent SPR reached
         17       in the five to seven years.
         18            Three hundred times.
         19            And I ask you to take a look at that,
         20       because there's some misrepresentation.
         21            Let's go on to some other things real
         22       quickly here, because I know that Mr. Shelfer
         23       has limited my time.  And I ask if there be some
         24       other people who come, I know that they have --
         25       are real concerned about this in terms of what's
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                                 November 7, 1996
          1       being done.
          2            But let's -- let's go over some of the
          3       areas.  I told you that actually this particular
          4       rule -- this rule that we challenged, and the
          5       permanent rule that Mr. Moore challenged, and
          6       the emergency rule brought before you today,
          7       actually increase the amount of mullet stocks
          8       that would be harvested.
          9            Let me tell you what this is really.  What
         10       we have here is, there's a county -- that court
         11       case that said that these particular mesh
         12       material was -- this plastic tarp stuff is not
         13       mesh and not included in the constitutional
         14       amendment?  We got angry about it.  It was
         15       issued July the 26th, 1996.
         16            On August the 1st, they distributed it to
         17       all of the staff and everything.  And on
         18       August the 6th, they had the Marine Fisheries
         19       Commission meeting when they passed this rule,
         20       without any notice to any of them.
         21            What are we required to do?  Do you know
         22       that to this day, they still do not have an
         23       economic impact statement that includes the
         24       effect of these tarps?  They still do not have
         25       the requirement -- the assessment --
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                                 November 7, 1996
          1            (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
          2            MR. FLOYD:  -- of what the statutory
          3       requirements are being met.  To this day, none
          4       of it is still there.
          5            Now, let's go -- let's look at it.
          6            This particular rule, they actually -- in
          7       this emergency rule, want to eliminate the days
          8       shown that have been shown in this '95 study by
          9       Dr. Mahmoudi to be absolutely important to the
         10       maintenance of the mullet popu-- he called it
         11       the 72-hour closure rule on weekends.
         12            They want to eliminate it by reducing it by
         13       10 hours -- I think it's about 10 hours a week
         14       during the time that they say is absolutely
         15       urgent that these mullet stocks be protected.
         16            Do you know how many hours that -- that is
         17       a significant amount when it comes to the mullet
         18       resources.  Not only that, but they're going to
         19       eliminate in the middle of the admitted mullet
         20       roe season for every part of the state of
         21       Florida, they're going to eliminate the 10-day
         22       closure in December.  That's what this emergency
         23       rule would do.  That's talked about by
         24       Dr. Mahmoudi.
         25            He estimated in his studies, and determined
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                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       in the facts, that about 50 percent of the time
          2       when the mullet spawn and get together and go
          3       out, when they're being subject to being caught
          4       in large numbers, occurred when the fronts came
          5       through on the weekends.
          6            So this is the most damaging part right
          7       here.  We're actually helping this.
          8            Let's take a look at some other things.
          9            What about -- you know, also evidence of
         10       the fact that the harvests are tremendously
         11       below the biological and scientific level, even
         12       as admitted by the Marine Fisheries Commission,
         13       is the fact that they -- in the permanent rule
         14       that they passed -- or attempted to pass that's
         15       been challenged, they were so comfortable with
         16       it, that they even allowed the use of a new kind
         17       of net to catch mullet.  Two skimmer nets, two
         18       of them, mind you --
         19            (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
         20            MR. FLOYD:  -- to be pulled behind the boat
         21       to be allowed for the first time to catch
         22       mullet.  And that's what we challenged.  That's
         23       part of what we challenged, that rule, that
         24       particular rule.  That's what I say, we're
         25       helping this.
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          1            Now, the other part -- let's look at the
          2       other part now.
          3            Now, in the emergency rule, they actually
          4       eliminate one of the prohibitions that was
          5       contained in the regular rule, that of snatch
          6       hooking of mullet.
          7            And people say that we're -- that we only
          8       protect the commercial fishermen.  There are so
          9       many recreational fishermen in the state of
         10       Florida that snatch hook mullet, that you would
         11       be astounded that do that.  They don't catch
         12       anything very much.  They go out and they have a
         13       good time, and they try to put some mullet on
         14       the table.
         15            But we challenged it, and preserved that
         16       for the rights of the people.
         17            Now, obviously the Marine Fisheries
         18       Commission wouldn't have passed that and put it
         19       in that part rule had what, had they not had the
         20       biological and scientific evidence to say, this
         21       is absolutely necessary to preserve the stocks.
         22            But when it comes to the emergency rule,
         23       what do they do?  They take it out.  They take
         24       it out.
         25            And that's what should happen with this
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                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       particular emergency rule.  It should be taken
          2       out, because it is not properly, not factually,
          3       not legally, not anything before you.  They
          4       have -- the staff has been deficient in doing
          5       what they're required to do.
          6            Now, let's take a look at some other
          7       things.  The prohibition -- the -- the only
          8       one -- the only type of material that could
          9       be -- that could be allowed at this time that's
         10       not prohibited or enforced against by the -- by
         11       the Marine Patrol is the solid material.  The
         12       solid material's out there.
         13            We say that it's not really being able to
         14       be used.  You can't -- there's a rule that
         15       prohibits net from stock gapping a bayou or
         16       river or bay.  That's already prohibited.
         17            All the chicken wire and stuff, that's
         18       prohibited because they consider that, in every
         19       area except for Gulf County, to be what?  To be
         20       a net.  To be a net.  That's right.
         21            Now, the prohibition on nonsolid material
         22       is already restricted in all the state of
         23       Florida, except for Gulf County.  That could
         24       hardly constitute some type of threat to the
         25       mullet stocks of the entire state of Florida,
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          1       particularly in light of what we know.
          2            Not only that, but they have admitted in
          3       the testimony, sworn testimony given, that at
          4       least 50 square feet of this pervious plastic
          5       material, when attached to a 500 square foot
          6       open mesh seine would have -- would not have a
          7       negative impact, or a meaningful impact on the
          8       harvest of mullet and the levels of harvesting
          9       mullet in the state of Florida.  Even they agree
         10       to that.
         11            Well -- so you know what type of level is
         12       required.  It -- the particular statute that
         13       governs emergency rule requires that it only
         14       prohibit that which is necessary.  That which is
         15       necessary.
         16            And they didn't even go in and accept any
         17       of it.  They eliminated any, 1 inch to
         18       whatever.
         19            But the information shows that it's not --
         20       you're not able to use any more in terms of
         21       mullet.  It's only with the shade material, the
         22       pervious material, and only then in connection
         23       with -- only then in connection with that --
         24       that netting that's used -- not this multiple
         25       miles and miles.  That's just the theory.
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          1            And the facts -- the only person -- this
          2       guy -- what we -- what did we say, he's -- the
          3       court case is over there, they're trying to
          4       establish it, they don't have the money to do
          5       that.  It's been agreement by -- to be appealed
          6       to the State Supreme Court.  The documents are
          7       all ready to be filed.
          8            These poor guys have to go in and do a rule
          9       challenge to try to maintain what they had been
         10       allowed, and been said, okay, go ahead and
         11       purchase these tarps and get them.  And they --
         12       improvements of their property depend on that.
         13       That is a rule challenge.
         14            And here we go -- this is -- all this is is
         15       a bold-faced attempt to go out and circumvent
         16       the judicial system, which is already in place
         17       to take care of this.  This is going to
         18       determine whether there's, what, what they're
         19       afraid of is these nonpervious material.  They
         20       shouldn't be.  But if they are, it's already
         21       before the Court, and it's already before the
         22       court system.
         23            And it's not been -- it's not something
         24       that's being pushed by them.
         25            The -- there's no indication of widespread
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          1       use of solid tarp material.  As they say in
          2       their report, and I ask you to read that
          3       particular emergency rule, says right in there
          4       that there's no indication of widespread use of
          5       solid tarp material.  They say widespread use of
          6       solid material being attached to 500 square feet
          7       of seine.  They admit they have never seen
          8       such.
          9            And Mr. Moore says that he has never heard
         10       of it and never seen it attached to a seine, the
         11       solid tarp material that they attempt -- that
         12       they're worried about in this particular rule.
         13            Now, there's another thing that I -- and
         14       this last I'll call to your attention.  It's the
         15       fact that in this particular report, and in the
         16       multiple reports produced by the staff on this,
         17       they continue -- and I do -- have done a letter
         18       to you on this, and this is what this letter
         19       addresses:  Dr. Mahmoudi, the expert on this,
         20       says, it'll take five to seven years from 1993,
         21       based on the restrictions that were in place in
         22       1993.
         23            Now, if you take the median, which the
         24       figure -- the graph shows, is Figure 7 on the
         25       graph says that it would -- he would reach the
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          1       90 percent biomass level in six years, probably
          2       five, but definitely six.  And that SPR would be
          3       achieved at that particular time through the
          4       1993 levels.  He already said 94-95 was met.
          5       And do you know -- so six years from October of
          6       1993 is October of 1999.
          7            Maybe October of 1988 that that would
          8       level, based on the '93 restrictions.
          9            But do you know what the -- they propose to
         10       you?  They state in their particular brief that
         11       that projection was seven to nine years.  All of
         12       a sudden it's increased.  Dr. Mahmoudi says, no,
         13       it did not increase.  He's never increased it.
         14            And they say that it will take at least
         15       three more years, even including the net ban
         16       restrictions in effect on harvest, three more
         17       years to achieve that SPR level.
         18            Well, let's look at it.  We're at November
         19       of 1996, if I'm not correct, and three more
         20       years is November of 1999.
         21            Well, that's when they said it was going to
         22       be -- Dr. Mahmoudi on scientific evidence that's
         23       supported by the State, said it was going to be
         24       reached with the 1993 restrictions.
         25            So what you're telling us is that the
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          1       constitutional amendment, the staff is, has had
          2       absolutely no effect whatsoever, the
          3       restrictions, on the gill netting and the
          4       harvest of mullet has had no effect at all on
          5       the -- the stocks of the mullet.
          6            We shouldn't have had it passed if it
          7       didn't affect at all the mullet stocks.  This is
          8       just an example of --
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I think your time's about
         10       up.  You've been --
         11            MR. FLOYD:  It is.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- you're well over your
         13       time now.
         14            MR. FLOYD:  Thank you for the allowance,
         15       Governor.
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         17            MR. SHELFER:  Ronald L. Crum.
         18            MR. CRUM:  I think our time is about up, so
         19       I'll just cut it real short.  You know, I think
         20       the issues here are very clear.
         21            Governor, a couple of weeks ago, I deployed
         22       a net in Levy Bay.  We've got a special
         23       prosecutor looking at that issue.
         24            What I did is I did not know how much I
         25       would need to deploy to be a beach or haul
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          1       seine.  I put eight legal 500 square foot pieces
          2       of beach and haul seine together.
          3            When I deployed it that day, it took four
          4       lengths, 320 feet, to be a beach or haul seine.
          5       If you cannot go from point A to point B, around
          6       fish, it is not a beach or haul seine.  Whatever
          7       it is, it's not a beach or haul seine.
          8            What I would like to ask you today, and
          9       I'll support this rule if you can get this to be
         10       possible.  Here's four pieces of rope
         11       representing 320 feet.  Each piece represents
         12       80 feet.
         13            If you can take the distance of this one
         14       piece and make it equal to all four of these, I
         15       will support this rule.  And if you cannot, I
         16       tell you today, January the 1st, 1997, you're
         17       going to be arresting people after you've
         18       entrapped them.
         19            There is not a legal beach and haul seine
         20       today described.  A seine is a device -- I've
         21       furnished you with Title 46 telling you exactly
         22       what it is.  There's not a question.
         23            I presented this -- if you look at the
         24       dates of the letters to Dr. Nelson, starts back
         25       in July, we asked to meet with them, we asked to
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          1       work with them.  What we proposed is 250 square
          2       foot of this nonporous stuff to be -- be put
          3       together with the two 500 square foot pieces
          4       supplied in the amendment.
          5            I was the one that worked with the shrimp
          6       net case.  The Justice said, yes, there's
          7       inconsistencies within the amendment and we must
          8       use it together to reach the intent of the
          9       voter.  That was our intent.
         10            I surveyed your markets here in
         11       Tallahassee.  Eighty percent of this product
         12       we're talking about is purchased by
         13       food stamps.  Seventy-five percent is purchased
         14       by minorities.
         15            Surely, I would say, it's the food of the
         16       less fortunate.  I think you have to vote your
         17       conscience today.  I think clearly -- you know,
         18       out in the -- outside the door here, and we have
         19       this net we developed.  We think total -- maybe
         20       legal, as we did the shrimp net, we come to the
         21       State, they said, hey, it's not possible, don't
         22       bring it to Tallahassee.  We had a unanimous
         23       vote with the Supreme Court on that issue.
         24            I think the net we've designed today is the
         25       minimum commercially viable device.  I don't
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          1       like it.  I think it will work, I think we'll
          2       feed these less fortunate people.  And I think
          3       that we're complying with that amendment.
          4            What you have to do is take -- as each time
          5       I looked at the press, I looked at the mullet --
          6       emergency mullet gear rule, with a discussion of
          7       the large purse seines that are still legal
          8       today.
          9            If -- I think, if mullet were eaten by the
         10       wealthy, I wouldn't be here today.  I wouldn't
         11       have to be here today.
         12            I ask you to look deep, listen to some of
         13       the facts and figures that he was talking about
         14       here.  Is there deceit and deception within this
         15       issue?  Vote your conscience.
         16            Thank you.
         17            MR. SHELFER:  Madeline Collins.
         18            MS. COLLINS:  Thank you.  Can you hear me?
         19            Can you hear me?
         20            Okay.  I wish I was together like I was the
         21       other day.
         22            My name is Madeline Collins, and I
         23       thank you gentlemen for allowing me to speak.
         24       I'm --
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Can you get just a little
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          1       closer to that microphone?  Tilt it --
          2            MS. COLLINS:  Does that work a little
          3       better?
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, ma'am.
          5            MS. COLLINS:  Okay.  I have a throat
          6       problem.
          7            Anyway, I was born and raised in
          8       Taylor County.  I have at least five generations
          9       of fishermen on both sides.  Believe it or not,
         10       fishing built my house.  My husband and I, and
         11       my family, all fish together.
         12            It's come down to the -- well, we're out of
         13       business.  The net -- I can't throw a cast net.
         14       I don't think I can pull this net they're trying
         15       to -- to develop or whatever.  There is nothing
         16       out there that's helping me as a commercial
         17       fisherman to be able to even catch mullet.  Not
         18       that would make me a living.
         19            The biggest thing that I want you to
         20       understand is that fishing is so different in
         21       every county.  You've lopped us altogether in a
         22       group.  Taylor County is a nice bed of ground.
         23       We have redfish coming out our ears.  We are
         24       taking chains out of the food chain.
         25            If you -- if you continue to do that, then
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          1       we're going to have so many redfish out there,
          2       that they're eating our little trout, they're
          3       eating our red -- mullet, they're eating our
          4       crabs, they're eating stones -- crabs, and
          5       they're messing with our -- our -- the rest of
          6       the species food to live on.
          7            South Florida is just totally different
          8       than what it is up in Taylor County or some of
          9       the other -- in the Big Bend area.
         10            I understand that due to the population
         11       growth and the infrastructure overrunning with
         12       people, that they made a difference in their --
         13       in their bay.  I understand that.
         14            I would like to be able to say that we are
         15       working actively to save our species, to work on
         16       helping the fish.  But instead of working on
         17       that, all we're doing is targeting a small
         18       amount of people that are struggling for a
         19       livelihood.
         20            And I say that because I've been told that
         21       in your documents and your surveys, that we only
         22       catch about 20 percent of these fish that are
         23       sold.  If we only catch 20 percent, then why are
         24       we the only ones being singled out to every time
         25       we try something new -- and I'm not saying I did
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          1       it, and I'm not saying it'll work -- but why is
          2       it there's something out there that's working
          3       for the Commission -- excuse me -- the fishermen
          4       so that we can be legal, and -- and be able to
          5       catch fish, whether it's mullet or whatever.
          6            Last year, I was told that, well, I'm going
          7       to retrain you.  Well, I went to the college
          8       last year, I spent a whole year.  Believe it or
          9       not, I'm trying to get my special education
         10       teachers certificate.
         11            Last June I was told there was no monies
         12       for the commercial fishermen.  There's no
         13       retraining out there.
         14            All right.  They called me this past -- or
         15       sent me some letters, and -- well, how about
         16       jellyfish.  Let's do jellyfish.
         17            Well, the film that I saw on jellyfish had
         18       a great big boat, and it had a great big net
         19       that scooped the jellyfish up together.  It had
         20       a big factory that was onshore that did the rest
         21       of it.
         22            I'm sorry, gentlemen, I -- I can't catch
         23       enough jellyfish at 8 cent a pound to sell to
         24       make me and my family a living.
         25            All right.  They sent me to another place,
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          1       said, well, let's grow fish.  Well, I'd love to
          2       grow fish, and I'd love to be able to turn them
          3       loose and replenish the ocean.  But I need to
          4       make a living for my family, as well as all
          5       those other people.
          6            And -- that's just really hard, gentlemen,
          7       to know that there is a lot of people out there
          8       that are counting on you.  They -- they're not
          9       asking for handouts.  We don't want welfare.  We
         10       don't -- we want to be self-supporting.  And,
         11       yes, we're independent.
         12            And we don't know how to -- to join
         13       together as a team and -- and present you with
         14       all the information that would give you less
         15       than an impartial view of what really is going
         16       on.
         17            I say to you that there is no emergency.
         18       This should not be even coming up here.  It's
         19       just that you are -- not you, but your people
         20       that bring you information share only one side
         21       with you.
         22            And this puts me in mind of just what we
         23       did to the Indians all those years ago.  We can
         24       look back and say, well, we made a mistake.
         25            Well, I hope that you won't have to do the
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          1       same thing years down the road whenever we have
          2       an overpopulated ocean because people can't
          3       catch fish, and it's not because of what the
          4       state voted on either, because they didn't vote
          5       to do away with catching fish.  They voted to do
          6       away with a specific kind.  And it's not even
          7       related to this net that is being proposed now.
          8            Are we trying to save our fish, or are we
          9       just trying to eliminate a few people?
         10            Mullet has always been a cheap resource for
         11       people that are in the low incomes.  In fact,
         12       fishermen are probably, most of them in the low
         13       income group.  It's been their main meal.
         14            But our county is high in unemployment.  We
         15       have a lot of people that are fishermen.  And I
         16       talk to our county commissioners, they are
         17       behind us all the way.  They don't know what to
         18       do, and I don't know how to help them to
         19       understand what we need.  But what we don't need
         20       is more rules and regulations.
         21            I've even -- since the last meeting here,
         22       we asked people to call and voice their
         23       opinions.  The people that answer the phone
         24       first took the name and numbers.  And then my
         25       aunt told me that she had tried to call, and it
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          1       was a recorder on there, and it just says leave
          2       your name and number, and we'll call you back.
          3            My daughter called yesterday, and was told
          4       that they wasn't doing any kind of a survey.  In
          5       other words, it sounded to me like, you don't
          6       care -- or -- I know you do care.  You're our
          7       representative, you are our government.  And,
          8       yes, we do pray for you every single meeting
          9       time, in hopes that you will be led right.
         10            And I ask you to do the right thing, and
         11       please stop targeting the little bitty man
         12       that's not going to make a difference in
         13       millions of pounds of mullet, or any other kind
         14       of fish.
         15            Do you have any questions?
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, ma'am.
         17            MS. COLLINS:  Thank you.
         18            MR. SHELFER:  Sue Smyronios.
         19            MS. SMYRONIOS:  I can tell you that lady
         20       was talking from the heart, because I'll be
         21       doing the same thing.
         22            I want to thank y'all for listening to us.
         23       My name is Sue Smyronios.  My husband and I own
         24       Steinhatchee Fish Company.  My husband is a
         25       commercial net fisherman first, and any other
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          1       type of fishing he can do second.
          2            I feel like I ought to know Governor Chiles
          3       personally, and Mr. Crawford personally, because
          4       I've talked to all of y'all's -- I've talked to
          5       you many times through letters.  And I've talked
          6       to Mr. Crawford's office many times, and his
          7       people, and they have been very supportive and
          8       very helpful.
          9            And they know the situation the commercial
         10       fishing industry's in.  We're farmers of the
         11       sea, you know.  And he knows.  And I want to
         12       commend him for the things that he's told me.
         13            We were a part of the Fresh From Florida
         14       campaign.  But because of the net ban, we
         15       couldn't follow-through and go on to the shows
         16       and all.  We just had to -- you know, and I told
         17       them, I said, I'd love to do it, but financially
         18       we can't.  You know, not now.
         19            There was some thing -- I was going to say
         20       some other things first.  I'm like Madeline now,
         21       I'm -- I'm nervous.  You know, we -- we fishing
         22       people -- and the old saying, fish out of
         23       water.  Well, that's where we're out up here
         24       talking to y'all.
         25            But I was going to say something first.
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          1       But I was sort of like what Madeline was talking
          2       about your people that get the words out to
          3       you.
          4            I have already been told by Mr. --
          5       Mr. Fuchs when I called, that your minds is
          6       basically made up.  Is it made up?
          7            Am I up here talking for nothing?  Now, I
          8       want to know.
          9            Is your minds basically made up -- already
         10       made up?
         11            GOVERNOR CHILES:  We're just listening to
         12       you, ma'am.
         13            MS. SMYRONIOS:  Okay.  That's what I want
         14       to know.
         15            Because if it is, there's not no reason --
         16       there's not really any reason for us to be
         17       here.  Because you're supposed to be listening
         18       to us and listening to what we say.
         19            And I know that we had a lot of people
         20       calling and calling.  And -- and people were
         21       telling y'all what they wanted.
         22            And I know one of my phone calls, I called
         23       Mr. -- Mr. Fuchs was telling me, he was saying,
         24       ma'am, are you sure you know what you're talking
         25       about?  Are you sure you want to vote yes --
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          1       I mean, I'm sorry, no.
          2            And I said, well, I don't know.  What do
          3       you mean?
          4            And he said, well, you want these miles and
          5       miles of tarp?  You want that big pile of tarp?
          6            And I was calling because I want this
          7       little -- this -- you know, this inshore --
          8       this -- what these in-- these commercial
          9       fishermen inshore is trying to do.  The offshore
         10       stuff, I know nothing about.  I know nothing
         11       about the bait fishery or anything.
         12            And I was thinking -- well, I called back
         13       up there.  And I'm thinking, are they getting
         14       the messages to you what we're really -- what we
         15       really think inside?
         16            In other words, you're not -- they're
         17       supposed to be telling you -- say -- listening
         18       to what we say, and writing it down, not try to
         19       give us ideas, you know.
         20            I'm here -- I'm here for the people of
         21       Taylor and Dixie County and the people of the
         22       other counties also north of the
         23       Suwannee River.
         24            Leon was the only county that voted against
         25       the net ban, you know, north of the Suwannee.
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          1       And I bet if they were given a second chance,
          2       they might not vote against it.
          3            I don't think the ordinary citizens of
          4       Florida realize what they were releasing when
          5       they voted.  And when I say "ordinary," I mean
          6       the people that live from day-to-day, from
          7       paycheck to paycheck, from -- they're on
          8       food stamps that are on low income.  The ones
          9       that can't afford to travel to the coast to buy
         10       and catch fish.
         11            I don't know if the people -- I don't think
         12       the people realized, you know, what all they
         13       were losing.  They lost more than just mullet,
         14       you know, and mullet was the staple of people in
         15       north Florida during the depression.
         16            I know y'all probably remember mullet and
         17       swamp cabbage.  I know I remember -- I don't
         18       remember the depression, but I remember my mama
         19       and daddy talking about it.
         20            But what has happened is that -- that we --
         21       that we have lost more than just that, we've
         22       lost the whitings, the croaker, the
         23       butter perch, the blue fish, the mackerel, the
         24       sheep head, the drums.
         25            In other words, we lost all these fish that
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          1       were cheap fish.  Before the net ban, you could
          2       go into our retail market, and you could buy any
          3       of these fish for less than a dollar, you know.
          4       And the people that get -- put it and have big
          5       incomes, they could afford it.
          6            Now you go in there, the cheapest fish you
          7       can find is $2.50, you know, because of the net
          8       ban, because we don't have the supply.
          9            I'm asking you to give the fishermen a
         10       chance to work.  What the Marine Fisheries
         11       Commission gave us does not work.
         12            And we in Taylor and Dixie County -- I'm in
         13       Steinhatchee, so I'm right on the river, on the
         14       two counties, we are in bad need.  We're fishing
         15       counties, and a lot of incomes has been lost.
         16            My company is the only one in Taylor County
         17       that's still operating.  There's only two in
         18       Dixie County, and those two in Dixie County
         19       are -- they sell their stuff to me, so I know
         20       what little they're producing.
         21            These people, not only are they losing
         22       their jobs and their insurance, and things like
         23       that, they're losing their dignity.  You know,
         24       they were -- they were proud people, and they
         25       supported their sales, they sent their kids
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          1       on -- and they try to get their kids to go on to
          2       college, and go and do other things.  And the
          3       majority of them does.  But they've lost their
          4       dignity because of what this has done to us.
          5            Let -- let us use what the amendment give
          6       us.  Let us use it to -- to -- to fix -- to make
          7       it work.  They give us 500 square feet.  Let us
          8       take that 500 square feet and make it work,
          9       whatever way we can do it.  You've got us beat,
         10       you've got us crippled.  Don't beat us down or
         11       cripple us any more.
         12            North Florida has had quite a bit of stuff
         13       happen to them since the Storm of the Century.
         14       We've had the storm, then the hurricanes.  And
         15       just this year, we've had two red tides and
         16       Josephine.
         17            And from -- all of our counties up here has
         18       been declared a disaster, you know, just this
         19       year, three different times, you know.
         20            What has happened also is that -- is
         21       that -- well, last time when I was up here,
         22       Mr. -- I talked a minute to Mr. Russ Nelson, and
         23       he was telling me, he says, I know these
         24       fishermen can catch mullet.  He says, my
         25       brother, he caught $12,000 worth of roe mullet
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          1       last year.
          2            And I said, well, that's good.  I said, but
          3       how did he do it?
          4            I said, I mean -- he said, well, with a
          5       cast net.
          6            Well, I found out later, he actually caught
          7       it with a gill net, you know, is what he caught
          8       them with.
          9            But I said, well, what does he do the rest
         10       of the year?
         11            He says -- what -- anyway, I asked him, I
         12       said, what did he do -- what did he do the rest
         13       of the year?
         14            They said he grouper fished.
         15            Okay.  These you -- these you catch.  Your
         16       average inshore mullet fisherman can't go and do
         17       grouper fishing or snapper fishing or something
         18       else.
         19            If you -- if you -- if an inshore net --
         20       most people think that if you can't net fish,
         21       then you can go grouper fish or stone crab or
         22       snapper.  Well, the catch to that is this -- and
         23       most people don't know it -- is that if you
         24       don't have reported landings in that fishery
         25       that you want to go into, or you didn't fish
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          1       before a control date, then you don't go into
          2       it.
          3            So that's what has happened to these
          4       netters, they -- a lot of them are having to
          5       fish illegally.  Because they don't have the --
          6       they don't have the permits to go into a
          7       different form of fishing.
          8            And the law of the state and federal laws
          9       won't let them get a refish permit, or a snapper
         10       permit or a grouper, you know.
         11            And about the only permit they can get is
         12       blue crabs.  So what do we have now?  We've got
         13       miles and miles and miles of crab buoys floating
         14       out there.
         15            And the net fishermen are blue crabbing,
         16       some are stone crabbing, because a few did have
         17       stone crab permits.
         18            What effect does this have?  Well, it's
         19       going to cripple the crab industry.  How?  By
         20       overfishing.
         21            Now the big crabs, they can't move 50 feet
         22       that they're not in a crab trap, so baby crabs
         23       can't move because you've got so many redfish
         24       out there that are eating the babies up.  And
         25       now I'm hearing reports that our crab
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          1       industry's -- you know, is -- you know, might be
          2       crippled.  And it's because we have pushed a
          3       fishery, a net fishery out into another form of
          4       fishery, you know.
          5            And one more thing, you know, you helped
          6       the scallop industry, you know, the commer-- the
          7       fish camps in Taylor County, and -- and let them
          8       people -- let them -- let the sports people come
          9       down and the recreation people come to help the
         10       fish camps to where they could go scalloping.
         11            And we need you to help us now.  You knew
         12       that this business was about to close.  And so,
         13       you know, you said, we're going to -- we're
         14       going to give them, you know, a chance to make a
         15       living some more.
         16            Well, you know that a lot of businesses
         17       went under.  And there's a lot more about to go
         18       under.  And we just -- we're just floating.
         19       You know, we just got our head above water.  And
         20       you have the power in your hands to -- to keep
         21       us from doing it.
         22            There's a lot more I wanted to say, but I
         23       know our time's limited.  And -- but will you
         24       please just think of us, think of the fact that
         25       we want a way -- we want a viable way to fish.
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          1       And we want a legal way, because come
          2       January the 1st, the fine is $2500 first
          3       offense; 5,000 second offense; 10,000 third
          4       offense.
          5            And these guys has no other way --
          6       you know, they don't have another fishery to go
          7       into.  So give them something they can work
          8       with.
          9            Thank you.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you, ma'am.
         11            MR. SHELFER:  I intend to address
         12       Mr. Floyd's legal comments following the
         13       proponents of the rule.  There are six of
         14       those.
         15            I would ask them please to be brief.
         16            Mr. Ted Forsgren.
         17            MR. FORSGREN:  Thank you, Governor, and
         18       members of the Cabinet.
         19            My name is Ted Forsgren, representing the
         20       Florida Conservation Association.  And we're
         21       here today to urge you to approve the rule.
         22       We've got some handouts ourselves.
         23            The rule does two things:  Number one, it
         24       specifies precisely what type of fishing gear
         25       can be used to harvest mullet in Florida.  It
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          1       includes hook and line, it includes cast nets,
          2       it includes seines.
          3            And it limits seines to 500 square feet so
          4       that large, assorted types of tarps, nylon,
          5       whatever additions to the net don't occur.  It's
          6       critical to the protection of the damaged mullet
          7       stocks.
          8            It does a second thing.  It shaves off some
          9       of the weekend closure periods, and eliminates
         10       four days at the end of the year, which provides
         11       an economic advantage to the smaller scale
         12       commercial cast netters and others to be able to
         13       harvest more mullet with the small scaled gear.
         14       So it does those two things.
         15            Make no mistake, the mullet stocks were
         16       seriously damaged prior to the net ban.  You've
         17       all heard about the intensive harvest during the
         18       roe season for export to the Orient.
         19            Prior to this meeting, I went around and
         20       visited with each of your staffs, and I showed
         21       some of the scientific information which shows
         22       that in the months of February through June,
         23       where there are no weekend closures, no trip
         24       limits, no quotas, just a minimum mesh size, the
         25       catch of mullet has consistently gone down in
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          1       the five years prior to the implementation of
          2       the net ban from 5 million pounds to 1 million
          3       pounds.
          4            Now, what that shows is when there are no
          5       restrictions, and the mullet are not matched for
          6       spawning, they're very difficult to harvest.
          7       And that shows very clearly the decline in
          8       abundance that all the fishing guides and others
          9       have indicated prior to the net ban.
         10            The restoration is well underway.  We're
         11       pleased to say that.  In fact, the benefits are
         12       even greater than we had anticipated in the
         13       short time it's been in effect.
         14            But the emergency rule is necessary,
         15       number one, because the permanent rule that the
         16       Commission had offered to you back in September
         17       was once again challenged by the industry.
         18       That's the fourth time in six years that the
         19       commercial fishing industry has filed legal
         20       challenges to block Marine Fisheries Commission
         21       mullet rules.
         22            We also think that without this rule, that
         23       there is no restrictions on the size, and you
         24       could have anywhere from that large net that you
         25       see in the photograph, which the industry says
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          1       they don't intend to use for mullet, which is
          2       understanding if they don't intend to use it,
          3       then why object to various other configurations
          4       that you've seen earlier.
          5            Someone said that the Commission doesn't
          6       want to listen to alternative ideas or different
          7       types of nets.  The Commission put in their
          8       permanent rule a skimmer net, which was only
          9       500 square feet.  It's pushed to the side of the
         10       boat.  We didn't object to it, it was an
         11       alternative form of gear to give the industry
         12       different options.
         13            We stood before you and did not oppose, we
         14       supported the jellyfish nets, another
         15       alternative.
         16            So there are alternatives out there that
         17       have been supported.
         18            All these other reasons, I think, are small
         19       compared to the one big reason.  And the one big
         20       reason is that we believe that the people of
         21       Florida spoke loud and clear when they approved
         22       the constitutional amendment to limit net
         23       fishing.  By a 72 percent vote, they said no
         24       more big nets in the inshore waters.
         25            That has been restated again.  You have a
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          1       package of editorials from around the state,
          2       major newspapers:  The Miami Herald saying the
          3       Governor and Cabinet Must Stop This Flouting of
          4       Voters Will.
          5            The Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel saying a
          6       Handful of Willful, Lawless Net Fishermen Should
          7       Not be Allowed to Undermine the Will of the
          8       People, Sound Fish Management Practices, and
          9       Good Public Policy.
         10            Tampa Tribune:  Netters Make Mockery of the
         11       Law.  And it goes on.
         12            Today's Sarasota Herald Tribune, Bradenton
         13       Herald, so forth.
         14            So it's very clear that this is not
         15       innovation, it's circumvention of the intent of
         16       the people.  So we urge you to -- no big nets in
         17       inshore waters, and please approve this rule.
         18            Thank you, Governor.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Yes, sir.  I want to ask
         20       just a couple questions.
         21            MR. FORSGREN:  Okay.
         22            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I -- my -- this -- we
         23       approved the rule, is that right; the one that's
         24       being challenged now?
         25            MR. FORSGREN:  No, sir.  That rule was
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          1       withdrawn because of the legal challenge.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  So we never got a chance
          3       to --
          4            MR. FORSGREN:  No.
          5            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- to deal with the
          6       regular rule.
          7            MR. FORSGREN:  That's correct.
          8            GOVERNOR CHILES:  And where is that
          9       challenge now?
         10            MR. SHELFER:  Let me explain.
         11            MR. FORSGREN:  Okay.
         12            GOVERNOR CHILES:  I'm asking him the
         13       question, if you don't mind.  I mean --
         14            MR. SHELFER:  I represent the Commission,
         15       so --
         16            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, that's fine.  But
         17       if I want to ask you a question, I'll ask you a
         18       question.  I'm asking him right --
         19            MR. FORSGREN:  Governor, that is in the
         20       administrative appeals process.  We have
         21       intervened with the assistance of the
         22       Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund to defend the
         23       Commission's rule.
         24            And that will not be resolved -- it took
         25       18 months on one issue to resolve a rule
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          1       challenge on mullet.  In others, it took
          2       eight months.
          3            And I think the -- the -- those who filed
          4       rule challenges against regular rules know that
          5       it's going to take months and know that it won't
          6       be resolved until long after this roe season.
          7            GOVERNOR CHILES:  All right.  Let me ask
          8       you this:  Given the fact that we had --
          9       according to the brief that we had, and I don't
         10       know whether you agree with that or not --
         11       83 percent reduction, I think it was, in the
         12       catch of mullet.
         13            You know, what is the basis that we use for
         14       saying that we need an emergency rule?  Now,
         15       emergency rules normally come before us,
         16       you know, because there is some critical reason,
         17       or there's some reason that we need to do that.
         18            Now, there are -- you know, we talk about
         19       the constitution and what it says.  The
         20       rulemaking process also has safeguards in it,
         21       require public testimony, require a lot of
         22       notice; emergency rule cuts across all of that,
         23       says you don't do that, you can move.  But I
         24       would think that there needs to be a pressing
         25       reason.
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          1            Now, the fact that we've got a shortage of
          2       mullet, you know, is certainly true, and we all
          3       agree with that.
          4            But we all know that scientifically the
          5       Commission, before you had the net ban, which
          6       was not imposed by sort of a scientific thing,
          7       it just said, boom --
          8            MR. FORSGREN:  Yes.
          9            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- we just stopped that.
         10       But we knew that we had to make a reduction to a
         11       certain amount.  We're way above where that
         12       amount would be.
         13            What I want to know is:  Is there some
         14       pressing emergency need for this, or is this a
         15       way of saying, you know, we don't like the fact
         16       that we're tied up in court, and we're going to
         17       cut across that?
         18            MR. FORSGREN:  No, sir.  I believe there is
         19       an emergency.  And I'll -- I'll use a good,
         20       clear example in Tampa Bay.
         21            In Tampa Bay, there were fisheries, large
         22       scale net fisheries on two species, Spanish
         23       sardines and menhaden.  We raised the question
         24       of, you know, you're overfishing the stocks,
         25       they're going to collapse.
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          1            The scientific methods and the scientific
          2       procedure that looks at fisheries -- and it's
          3       not just Florida, it's worldwide.  There are
          4       many faults and flaws in how to analyze the
          5       data.
          6            And time after time, too many fish were
          7       taken and the fishery collapsed.  And measures
          8       designed to protect the stocks were delayed and
          9       delayed.
         10            In the case of Tampa Bay, the Spanish
         11       sardine stocks collapsed, they're still not
         12       recovered.  And in the case of menhaden, they're
         13       still under recovery.
         14            Now, those stocks collapsed while
         15       scientists were analyzing the stocks.  So in
         16       mullet, we have the opportunity now through the
         17       net ban, we've got a dramatic reduction in the
         18       take.  And if that reduction is undermined by
         19       the introduction of these large tarpaulin net
         20       gears, to take who knows what quantity during
         21       the roe season, then you're going to be back to
         22       where you were before the net ban.
         23            And that's -- that's our concern.  And
         24       I think that constitutes a real emergency as it
         25       relates to a critically important fishery in
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          1       Florida.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Well, I guess the only
          3       thing in my simple mind is that it seems to be
          4       that we're saying that all the work that the
          5       Marine Fisheries did before in saying that you
          6       had to have this reduction, and you had to
          7       reduce it by 35 percent or the things that --
          8       the catch that we had, that that was all wrong.
          9            Because now you're saying that the thing is
         10       going to collapse.  We didn't say it at that
         11       time.  We said, if we take these steps over a
         12       period of -- whether you say it's five years or
         13       seven years, or whatever that turned out to
         14       be -- we had a plan that we were going to reduce
         15       it.
         16            Now, we're way ahead of that plan.  Way
         17       ahead of that plan now.  So how is it going to
         18       collapse?  Again, I'm getting back to this --
         19            MR. FORSGREN:  Okay.
         20            GOVERNOR CHILES:  -- thing:  Do you have to
         21       have an emergency rule here, which cuts the
         22       public out, the public hearings, and a lot of
         23       things that come before a regular rule.  Is that
         24       necessary?
         25            MR. FORSGREN:  Yes, sir.  I don't agree
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          1       that the plan that the Commission had in place
          2       prior to the net ban was going to effectively
          3       bring back the stocks in the time frame they're
          4       talking about doing.  I mentioned earlier about
          5       that time frame.
          6            In that five-year period where there's no
          7       rate -- if you have no regulations, only other
          8       than a net size, you can go out and catch as
          9       much as you want.  If your catch continually
         10       goes down, that tells you there's not as many
         11       fish out there to find a catch.
         12            The market certainly price was still going
         13       up.  So that, to us, was a very clear indication
         14       that the plan was not responding the way that
         15       they were doing.
         16            And I think that the answer here is:  If
         17       you approve this emergency rule, you will not
         18       have this tarpaulin gear affecting the recovery
         19       of the mullet.  If you reject it, then you will
         20       have whatever the industry puts in the water to
         21       harvest the fish.  That's the issue.
         22            And it's -- it's a question of judgment in
         23       terms of emergency, it's a judgment question
         24       that you have to answer yourself.  It's one that
         25       the Commission addressed and adopted
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          1       unanimously.  And we believe it -- it fits that
          2       criteria also.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
          4            MR. FORSGREN:  Thank you.
          5            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Governor, may I --
          6       and Ted or anybody can answer this, I suppose.
          7            One of the issues that has not been
          8       addressed specifically is that of bycatch, based
          9       on the fact that this is obviously a different
         10       kind of a drag.  We've talked about the
         11       potential impact on the mullet stock.
         12            Talk to me about bycatch, and how the
         13       bycatch is different, based on this drag versus
         14       the old --
         15            MR. FORSGREN:  You can see the tarpaulin
         16       net gear has no mesh.  So whatever is encircled
         17       in the area that is set is going to be
         18       captured.  And it depends upon how the fish are
         19       taken out and sorted as to whether anything will
         20       survive that's not intended to be caught.
         21            Frankly, the tarp net gear is worse than a
         22       shrimp trowel in terms of selectivity.
         23            COMMISSIONER BROGAN:  Meaning it takes
         24       everything.
         25            MR. FORSGREN:  It takes whatever is in the
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          1       area it encircles.  There's no way to get out.
          2            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
          3            MR. FORSGREN:  Thank you.
          4            MR. SHELFER:  David Gluckman.
          5            MR. GLUCKMAN:  Thank you.
          6            Governor and members of the Cabinet, my
          7       name is David Gluckman.  I'm here on behalf of
          8       the Florida League of Anglers, in support of
          9       this emergency rule.
         10            Governor, to try to answer your question,
         11       because I know it's a really important one for
         12       this particular issue, there are really sort of
         13       two emergencies that you're dealing with here.
         14            One, the way this rule is drafted, will,
         15       in fact, allow some of the fishermen who have
         16       had problems surviving, to be able to actually
         17       bring in a little more income during the
         18       Christmas season.  And that was one part of this
         19       rule.
         20            To the extent that it's an emergency for
         21       some of them, I don't know how much they need
         22       it.  But I think you've heard a lot of testimony
         23       that, in fact, this rule does open up additional
         24       fishing to allow them to use the methods that
         25       are presently available to them to bring in more
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          1       mullet during this particular area -- this
          2       particular season.
          3            The other emergency has to do with a very
          4       large unknown, which is the tarp net.  Nobody
          5       knew about tarp nets prior to the last
          6       eight months to a year.
          7            No fishery in the world that we know of has
          8       ever used a tarp net.  It is a particular type
          9       of gear that no one in this state has been using
         10       successfully, as far as we know, other than at
         11       least one instance that Mr. Rafael does on a
         12       large fishery, which is very different from
         13       this.
         14            What's happened in the environmental
         15       community is a -- is an uproar over this
         16       particular issue, because there are no
         17       restrictions on the sizes or lengths, or any of
         18       these types of experimental gear that they could
         19       use for tarp nets, if this rule is not passed.
         20            So the emergency is that if you do not have
         21       this rule today, those individuals who want to
         22       try to use this gear in the mullet fishery can
         23       use 10 foot long, 20 foot, 100 feet, 5 yards,
         24       5 miles, whatever they want to use, because
         25       there are no restrictions at all available to
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          1       them.
          2            And this is the unknown that could
          3       actually -- I think was what Mr. Forsgren was
          4       saying -- kick the mullet fishery back to where
          5       it was before the net ban went in.
          6            Because if these nets are being used, and
          7       they effectively trap mullet, we could see
          8       enormous increases -- in the increase in the
          9       take of these fish that would just throw the
         10       whole projections of the Marine Fisheries
         11       Commission into a cocked hat, and everything
         12       else that all of us have tried to do over the
         13       last few years.
         14            That's the fishery's problem with it.
         15       There are other problems with tarp nets, which
         16       is why we have been so strong in advocating that
         17       they not be permitted to be used in this system.
         18            A tarp net is very much like -- the tarps
         19       themselves -- and all of us who have ever been
         20       in the water in Florida, if you ever tried to
         21       swim against a current with a solid piece of
         22       material, it's a very, very difficult thing.
         23            And if the currents change or shift on you,
         24       if the wind comes up when these tarp nets are
         25       sitting up on deck, if -- if you get all kinds
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          1       of wave action or thunderstorms coming, it is a
          2       very, very dangerous gear, not only for the
          3       person in the boat using it, but, of course, for
          4       the marine environment if it's cut loose.
          5            Because what happens to these things is
          6       they're like sea anchors that are being dragged
          7       with a small amount of net mesh somewhere in the
          8       end of the net.
          9            If they start -- if unexpected weather
         10       conditions happen, these nets begin to pull the
         11       boats, particularly the small mullet boats that
         12       are out there if they began to use them and
         13       experiment with them.
         14            And when this happens, the fisherman on
         15       board has a choice, either to allow his boat to
         16       be pulled into rocks or onto waves, or --
         17       you know, into beaches and be swamped and have
         18       that type of dangerous condition, or to cut them
         19       loose.
         20            And that creates a secondary problem is
         21       these tarps, some of them are very expensive,
         22       and nobody thinks any fisherman in their right
         23       mind is going to intentionally cut them loose
         24       and let -- unless they have to.
         25            Others, because this is a very low economic
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          1       level fishery, you're going to find
          2       experimentation with all levels of plastics to
          3       find out which ones will work and which ones
          4       won't.
          5            And so unless there are restrictions now at
          6       the time that the roe season is on us when much
          7       of this is going to be taking place, you're
          8       going to have people out there using types of
          9       plastics which are very inexpensive, and which
         10       are going to simply be blown into the marine
         11       environment.
         12            And when that happens, what occurs out
         13       there is you get covering of the grounds and
         14       bottoms, which shades out the grasses and the
         15       corals and the other things that are essential
         16       for marine life to live in the inshore water.
         17            You've got them blowing up on beaches.
         18       Where you get these massive beach cleanups that
         19       we see now, you're going to have this type of
         20       stuff blown up on beaches.
         21            Until somebody finds out what works and
         22       what doesn't work, you've got an extremely
         23       difficult situation in that environment.
         24            The second part of it, which I think in
         25       many ways is if it's successful, I think you may
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          1       actually have more problems.  Because where you
          2       drag --
          3            (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
          4            MR. GLUCKMAN:  -- a net across the bottom,
          5       particularly in the shallow bottoms that you're
          6       dragging mullet nets, the sand and the silt then
          7       filters through the net and goes out to the
          8       side.
          9            When you pull a solid piece of material
         10       across the bottom, a number of things happen.
         11       One is you start scraping everything in sight
         12       with you.  And it starts to build up within the
         13       net system.
         14            Some of these nets, if you -- particularly
         15       with mullet in shallow water, begin to dig
         16       under, and you start actually digging up the
         17       bottom with them.
         18            So you've got some real potential dangerous
         19       damaging types of fisheries that could take
         20       place that -- that could have a devastating
         21       impact on our marine environment.
         22            And the suggestion that we have and the
         23       reason we are supporting this rule is that we do
         24       feel it is important to give some of the
         25       fishermen who showed up at the Marine Fisheries
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          1       Commission requesting these additional hours and
          2       days that they have to fish during the Christmas
          3       roe season, to give them that opportunity.
          4            But it's just as important and, to our
          5       extent, much more important to make sure that
          6       you don't in any way promote the use of this
          7       type of gear, which is inherently dangerous to
          8       both individuals in the marine environment, and
          9       encourage fishermen, who have limited resources
         10       right now, to go out and purchase and experiment
         11       with these things.  And then come in when
         12       they've all gone out and spent money, when they
         13       found the kinds that they think are going to
         14       work, and have to ban them later.  It doesn't
         15       make a whole lot of --
         16            (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
         17            MR. GLUCKMAN:  -- sense to do that from an
         18       administrative point, or an economic point.  So
         19       we suggest very strongly that you support this
         20       administrative rule today.
         21            Thank you very much.  Be happy to answer
         22       any questions.
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         24            MR. SHELFER:  Dave Lear.
         25            MR. LEAR:  Good morning, Governor and
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          1       members of the Cabinet.
          2            For the record, my name is Captain
          3       Dave Lear, and I'm the Big Bend Chapter
          4       President for Florida Conservation Association.
          5            I'm an outdoor journalist whose livelihood
          6       depends on healthy populations of fish,
          7       including mullet.  And I'm also one of the
          8       volunteers who help worked to get the Save a Sea
          9       Life Amendment on the ballot, and one of the
         10       millions of Floridians who voted for it.
         11            Ted and David have covered many of the
         12       important points.  We all know how critical
         13       mullet are to the marine food chain.
         14            I'd just like to share with you the fact
         15       that I'm down on the coast quite often, and I am
         16       witnessing every time I go down there,
         17       fishermen, commercial fishermen, out wading the
         18       shoreline, throwing cast nets, and catching
         19       mullet.
         20            I've also talked to a couple of fishermen
         21       one afternoon on St. George Island.  And in an
         22       afternoon, they were able to fill a 100 quart
         23       and an 80 quart cooler with mullet.
         24            I've also checked around, and you can find
         25       fresh, locally caught mullet in the area seafood
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          1       markets for around $2 a pound.
          2            The Save our Sea Life Amendment does not
          3       allow the continued overharvest of our mullet
          4       stock so the roe can be exported to Japan to
          5       satisfy the taste buds of the very wealthy.  We
          6       need to protect our own resources in maintaining
          7       the health of the marine food chain.
          8            These convoluted nets that are being touted
          9       by the commercial industry don't belong in the
         10       water.  Whether they're made with plastic
         11       tarpaulin, parachute cloth, chain link fence,
         12       shower curtains, orange construction fencing,
         13       whatever they can come up with, they defy the
         14       spirit of Amendment 3 and threaten the continued
         15       recovery of our mullet stocks.
         16            These contraptions look like a net; they
         17       act like a net; and, by golly, they are nets.
         18            Please let the cast net fishery work and
         19       let the recovery plan work.  Please support this
         20       emergency rule before you.
         21            Thank you.
         22            MR. SHELFER:  Mike McIntosh.
         23            MR. McINTOSH:  Governor, members of the
         24       Cabinet, my name is Michael McIntosh, Jr.  I'm
         25       from Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            Most of all the issues have been covered.
          2       I just want to support Mr. Gluckman's concerns
          3       over the environmental hazards that these
          4       plastic tarpaulins may cause to the marine
          5       environment.
          6            There are the chances that large tarps will
          7       scape and will effectively hurt the small fry
          8       mullet that are trying to grow in the very
          9       protected areas of the grassy areas.
         10            Secondly, we're concerned about smaller
         11       pieces of tarp being ripped.  There have been
         12       accounts of them ripping and -- and escaping.
         13       And we're concerned about ingestion of these
         14       plastics by marine life, including fish, birds,
         15       and sea turtles, and whatnot.
         16            I believe that this rule is -- is --
         17       qualifies as an emergency basically because this
         18       is the primary mullet roe season, and that it
         19       goes between October and January of next year,
         20       and that the use of very, very large tarpaulin
         21       skirts to create walls which would
         22       effectively -- could possibly catch full schools
         23       of mullet, create a -- a danger of pushing back
         24       the recovery of the mullet population.
         25            I'd request that the rule be supported by
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       this Cabinet, and I believe that is a very
          2       important issue at hand.
          3            Thank you very much.
          4            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
          5            MR. SHELFER:  Manley Fuller.
          6            MR. FULLER:  Governor and Cabinet,
          7       Manley Fuller representing the Florida Wildlife
          8       Federation.
          9            We wish to speak in favor of the rule.  We
         10       believe that if you do not enact the emergency
         11       rule, we think that there's a likelihood that
         12       there'll be a proliferation of gear which is
         13       attached to the 500 square foot seines, and that
         14       there'll be a proliferation of this type of
         15       netting material, which we think -- we think
         16       goes against the intent of the Constitution,
         17       which set the 500 square foot limit.
         18            Thank you.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
         20            MR. SHELFER:  Senator Charlie Crist.
         21            SENATOR CRIST:  Good afternoon, Governor,
         22       distinguished members of the Cabinet.
         23            My name is Charlie Crist.  I'm a State
         24       Senator from the Tampa Bay area.
         25            I believe these tarp nets must be stopped.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       It has been reported that some of them are as
          2       large as 9 to 10 acres.  This is clearly a
          3       subversion or circumvention of the intent of the
          4       net ban, which is to save our natural resources.
          5            I urge you to preserve our precious marine
          6       life and our environment.
          7            I am filing a bill with Representative
          8       Sandy Safley to put an end to these nets, that
          9       will give this rule the force of law.  But that
         10       won't be until the spring of this year -- next
         11       year, rather.
         12            You have the opportunity to ban these nets
         13       now under this emergency rule.  I urge you to do
         14       the right thing for our environment.
         15            I request that you uphold the will of the
         16       people and approve this important rule.  The
         17       citizens voted by 72 percent to stop large nets
         18       from eradicating our marine resource.
         19            They don't care if the nets are made of
         20       monofilament, cloth, plastic, or whatever
         21       material.  They just want it stopped, and I
         22       would encourage you to do just that, and uphold
         23       the will of the people.
         24            Thank you very much.
         25            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Thank you.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            MR. SHELFER:  Briefly, Governor, and
          2       Cabinet.
          3            The Administrative Procedure Act requires
          4       the Commission -- or any other State Agency,
          5       when it adopts an emergency rule, to spell out
          6       within the document -- and it's before you
          7       today -- specific reasons for finding an
          8       immediate danger to the public health, safety,
          9       or welfare.
         10            The emergency rule before you has such a
         11       statement, and it contains findings by the
         12       Marine Fisheries Commission.
         13            The Commission has a set of rulemaking
         14       standards that it must follow in emergency
         15       rules, as well as other rules.
         16            The paramount standard, as listed in
         17       Florida Statutes, is conservation and management
         18       measures shall be the -- the paramount concern
         19       of conservation and management measures shall be
         20       the continuing health and abundance of the
         21       marine fisheries resources of this state.
         22            It also states in the standards that
         23       conservation and management measures shall
         24       permit reasonable means and quantities of annual
         25       harvest consistent with maximum, practicable,
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1       sustainable stock abundance.
          2            The Commission has made a specific finding
          3       that the continuing health and abundance of the
          4       mullet resource in Florida is jeopardized if
          5       tarpaulin gear of unregulated size and access is
          6       used during the imminent roe mullet season.
          7            With this resource in a depressed,
          8       recovering condition, and the Commission's
          9       information in the testimony and the depositions
         10       that Mr. Floyd referred to is that we are still
         11       several years away from a fully recovered mullet
         12       resource at 35 percent spawning potential
         13       ratio.
         14            Reasonable means and quantities of annual
         15       harvest cannot safely be considered to include
         16       the introduction of this imponderable, new
         17       unregulated gear.
         18            Development of a cast net in a small seine
         19       mullet fishery does not owe such a threat to the
         20       resource, and can be encouraged consistent with
         21       the Commission's rulemaking standards.
         22            We submit to you that this rule is
         23       supported by the requisite findings of
         24       emergency, and that the procedures used were
         25       fair under the circumstances.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            And we ask you, please, to approve this
          2       rule.
          3            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Was -- what were the
          4       findings of the emergency in regard to snatch
          5       hook?
          6            MR. SHELFER:  Snatch hooking was a
          7       provision that was placed in the permanent
          8       rule.  It's currently under litigation.  It was
          9       not contained in the emergency rule, sir.
         10            GOVERNOR CHILES:  So then it's not in the
         11       emergency --
         12            MR. SHELFER:  It is not in here, no, sir.
         13            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Okay.
         14            Any questions?
         15            Thank you.
         16            ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:  I move the
         17       rule, Governor.
         18            SECRETARY MORTHAM:  Second.
         19            GOVERNOR CHILES:  It's been moved and
         20       seconded.
         21            So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
         22            THE CABINET:  (Aye.)
         23            GOVERNOR CHILES:  Opposed, no.
         24            The rule is adopted.
         25            MR. SHELFER:  Thank you, sir.
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                           MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
                                 November 7, 1996
          1            (Exhibit 1 marked for identification.)
          2            (Exhibit 2 marked for identification.)
          3            (Exhibit 3 marked for identification.)
          4            (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was
          5       concluded.)
          6                             *
          7            (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
          8       12:32 p.m.)
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                 November 7, 1996
          1                 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
          4   STATE OF FLORIDA:
          5   COUNTY OF LEON:
          6            I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
          7   the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
          8   time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
          9   notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
         10   pages numbered 1 through 155 are a true and correct
         11   record of the aforesaid proceedings.
         12            I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
         13   employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
         14   nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
         15   or financially interested in the foregoing action.
         16            DATED THIS 19TH day of NOVEMBER, 1996.
         19                           LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
                                      100 Salem Court
         20                           Tallahassee, Florida 32301
                                      (904) 878-2221
                        ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.