Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
6 DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
7 AND MOTOR VEHICLES
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
8 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
9 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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11 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
12 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Thursday,
13 September 26, 1996, commencing at approximately
9:53 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
25 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 26, 1996
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
4 Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Withdrawn 5
6 3 Approved 6
4 Approved 7
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS:
8 (Presented by Carlos L. Rainwater,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 9
10 2 Approved 9
3 Approved 10
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
12 (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 11
14 2 Approved 12
3 Approved 12
15 4 Approved 16
5 Approved 17
16 6 Approved 18
7 Approved 19
17 8 Approved 20
18 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
19 Executive Director)
20 1 Approved 27
2 through 5 Approved 27
21 6 Approved 28
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 26, 1996
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
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ITEM ACTION PAGE
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
4 (Presented by Wayne Pierson)
5 1 Approved 56
2 Approved 56
6 3 Approved 56
7 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Gale Sitting,
8 Deputy Director)
9 1 Approved 57
2 Deferred 57
10 3 Approved 57
4 Approved 58
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BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
12 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
13 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 59
15 Substitute 2 Deferred 101
3 Approved 102
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17 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 104
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 26, 1996
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:45 a.m.)
3 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: And now we'll go to the
5 Division of Bond Finance.
6 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
7 the minutes of the meeting of September 10th.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
9 Moved and --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 we request be
14 withdrawn.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: A motion to support
18 the --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
20 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
21 MR. WATKINS: Item 3 is a report of award
22 of two multifamily housing revenue bonds sold on
23 behalf of the Florida Housing Finance Agency.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So move.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 26, 1996
6
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, that's approved.
3 Anything special about these bonds, or
4 anything?
5 MR. WATKINS: The next one.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Next one.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The next one. Yes.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a report of
9 award of the single family housing bond issue
10 sold on a competitive basis.
11 At the -- as you know, at the urging of the
12 Governor and this Board, the Housing Agency
13 undertook to evaluate --
14 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
15 MR. WATKINS: -- the feasibility of
16 executing a transaction on a competitive basis.
17 And this report of award is the result of that
18 undertaking.
19 The Housing Finance Agency, in a
20 cooperative effort with the Division of
21 Bond Finance, structured a transaction that
22 would be well received by the marketplace in
23 order to ensure a successful sale. We received
24 six bids on the transaction, the -- awarded the
25 sale to the low bidder at a true interest cost
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 26, 1996
7
1 of approximately --
2 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
3 MR. WATKINS: -- six point oh seven
4 percent.
5 From a bond sale standpoint, this was a
6 very successful transaction in obtaining the
7 lowest borrowing costs from the state.
8 And in addition to that, achieved the
9 Housing Agency's programatic objectives of
10 minimizing their contribution in creating a very
11 competitive mortgage loan rate for potential
12 borrowers throughout the state.
13 (Applause.)
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
15 I never thought I would live to see it.
16 But that's terrific.
17 Is there a motion?
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion, and --
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I hope we have
22 many more of those.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
24 Without objection.
25 Thank you very much for your diligence in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 26, 1996
8
1 that, and I thank all the members of the
2 Cabinet, and especially the Comptroller, who
3 kept pushing on this as well.
4 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
6 Interesting, again, one of the lowest rates
7 that we've received in a good while. So it
8 seem --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Can be done.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- can be done.
11 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
12 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
September 26, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of
2 Veterans' Affairs.
3 MR. RAINWATER: Good morning, Governor and
4 members of the Cabinet. We have three issues on
5 our agenda this morning.
6 The first is Attachment 1 in your package,
7 the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs
8 quarterly reports for the third and fourth
9 quarters of 1996. You'll see that in
10 Attachment 1.
11 I recommend approval.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,
13 Governor.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. RAINWATER: The second item on our
18 agenda this morning is our Legislative Budget
19 Request for fiscal year 1997-1998. That will be
20 seen in Attachment 2 to the package.
21 I recommend approval.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. RAINWATER: And the final item on our
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
September 26, 1996
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1 agenda is our Capital Improvements Program for
2 fiscal years 1997 through the year 2002, seen in
3 Attachment 3 to the package.
4 I recommend approval.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, that's approved.
9 MR. RAINWATER: Thank you very much.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
11 (The Department of Veterans' Affairs Agenda
12 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of
2 Highway Safety.
3 MR. DICKINSON: Good morning, Governor and
4 Cabinet.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
6 MR. DICKINSON: First item is approval of
7 minutes from July 9th Cabinet meeting.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, minutes are approved.
12 MR. DICKINSON: Item number 2 is request
13 approval of the quarterly report for the period
14 ending June of 1996.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, that's approved.
19 MR. DICKINSON: Item 3 is a submission of
20 accomplishments relating to the 95-96
21 performance contract of the Executive Director
22 of the Department.
23 Recommend approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm just reading.
25 MR. DICKINSON: Hopefully.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
12
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't know whether
2 there's a motion on that or not, to tell you the
3 truth. I've been --
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I suppose,
5 grudgingly, Governor, I'll move approval.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I'll -- and
7 I'll second it, because I think it reflects some
8 pretty good effort on the part of the Secretary
9 and his people.
10 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, sir.
11 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, it's
13 approved.
14 Anything remarkable in this you want to
15 talk about? I mean, it --
16 MR. DICKINSON: Well, I think we're doing
17 more with a lot less is the bottom line. Our
18 quarterly reports have reflected, we're taking
19 more of the bad drivers off the road, and our
20 patrol is really working hard to eliminate the
21 problem we had with response time to crashes and
22 scenes of accidents.
23 We're on the Web, we've got a good home
24 page on the Web.
25 We were fortunate enough this past July,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
13
1 they had five awards in our -- AAMVA is our --
2 American Association of Motor Vehicles
3 Administrators. They have five customer service
4 awards in the southeast region, and Florida
5 walked away with all five of them.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Terrific.
7 MR. DICKINSON: So --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very good.
9 MR. DICKINSON: -- I think the customer
10 service effort is paying off, and we're working
11 hard in the driver license area. We're now
12 digitized in all of our field offices.
13 The lines are very subdued right now.
14 In fact, Sandy Lambert, our Division Director,
15 was in Broward County this past week. She said,
16 if you go in, you're going to be handled.
17 There's probably a 15-minute wait, at the most.
18 So I think we've turned this thing around.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
20 Fifteen minutes?
21 MR. DICKINSON: That's what she reported
22 this week. And she was there --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Amazing.
24 MR. DICKINSON: -- for the whole week.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 unbelievable.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: For the --
3 MR. DICKINSON: And that's Broward, which
4 you know we've --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Usually it's
6 a 4-hour battle.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
8 MR. DICKINSON: We've got, as you're well
9 aware, two tax collectors now that are issuing
10 driver's licenses, Marion County and Manatee.
11 So we're going to expand that program.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
13 great.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are people using the
15 telephone at all?
16 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir. We're -- about a
17 million a year. We're --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's pretty good.
19 MR. DICKINSON: -- the mail-in and the
20 telephone renewal.
21 We've just gone to a program this week
22 where if you haven't paid your traffic citation,
23 instead of going down to the court, then having
24 to come to the driver license office to
25 reinstate your privilege, you can go ahead and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 pay with a credit card. And do it all through
2 the -- what -- what's finally hit --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: This information is on
4 your Web page --
5 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Great.
7 MR. DICKINSON: In fact, we are now --
8 Massachusetts is the first state that has gone
9 to a renewal process through their Web page.
10 And we hopefully will be on-line soon with that.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: That would be great.
12 MR. DICKINSON: We're trying to work out
13 some kinks right now on the payment side, but --
14 for your tag and your -- and your
15 driver license.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you've got some
17 great progress here, and we do commend you for
18 that.
19 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's great.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Outstanding.
22 MR. DICKINSON: Item 4 is submission of the
23 96-97 performance contract. Hopefully we can
24 expand on these -- what progress we're making
25 right now.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval, with
2 better things to come.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Item 5 is a submission of
7 the Department's legislative budget request for
8 97-98.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I have a
11 question on the budget.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I notice that it's a
14 $19 million increase in the budget. Can you
15 tell me whether or not you have proposed
16 decreases in any of the budget?
17 MR. DICKINSON: As you're well aware, these
18 last couple of years, that's primarily what
19 we've been about is cutting the budget. I'm not
20 sure that we have submitted anything at this
21 point.
22 I'm trying to think if we have a request
23 before us from either the OPB, or the Senate, or
24 the House, for a decrease. But we're poised and
25 ready if that is necessary. We've cut about --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But you didn't initiate
2 any decrease in the budget.
3 MR. DICKINSON: We don't have anything --
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: In any areas.
5 MR. DICKINSON: In our budget request, we
6 did not initiate any --
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
8 MR. DICKINSON: -- decrease.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: In other words, he knows
10 he's going to get the request from up here, so
11 he saves anything for awhile.
12 Is there a motion?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
15 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
19 MR. DICKINSON: Item 6 is request approval
20 with the -- this is a -- the Allen Corporation,
21 which is our Employee Assistance Program. And
22 we're seeking a -- to contract with a different
23 vendor on this issue. This is a --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
25 MR. DICKINSON: -- five-year contract. We
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 handle about 200 of our employees through EAP.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, that's approved.
5 MR. DICKINSON: Item 7 is request approval
6 or authority for us to enter into a contract
7 with the Florida Association of Court Clerks
8 Association to put an automated traffic citation
9 system together.
10 And it would go through the courts, and
11 then eventually to Tallahassee, with the
12 law enforcement at the initial level.
13 This should be a real big time saver for
14 our law enforcement personnel. It's been
15 through the legislative process, it's been
16 through ITRPAC.
17 The money is in -- in our -- one of our
18 trust funds. But the Legislature and every --
19 all the other parties have gotten together, and
20 we're going to let the Clerks of the Court
21 design the system. And then there'll be money
22 in there for the individual law enforcement
23 agencies to purchase these automation -- these
24 automated traffic citators.
25 It's a computerized handheld computer to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 handle citations, crash reports. Another good
2 automation issue.
3 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think you've done a
5 good job in working with a number of the county
6 officers, the clerks, the comptroller -- I mean,
7 the tax collectors. And I think this sounds
8 like good progress, too.
9 Is there a motion?
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. DICKINSON: Now for the fun issue.
15 Submission of the new state license plates. We
16 have five plates today:
17 The Tampa Bay Devil Rays, the Boy Scout
18 plate, the Bethune-Cookman College plate, and
19 the Florida Athletic League -- excuse me --
20 yeah, Florida Athletic League plate.
21 And this is the proposed Florida plate --
22 sorry? Police Athletic League.
23 And there's something here that we'll
24 discuss in a moment.
25 This is a surprise plate, Governor.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would --
2 I'd like to move those -- those five plates,
3 Governor, if that'd be appropriate.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, the five plates are
7 approved.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
9 there's a Federal Express package for you here.
10 This is the Federal Express man coming up.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: You might want to
12 soak it in water, Governor.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think
14 security --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Where's the bomb
16 disposal?
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Security has
18 already looked at the -- I think the PLE has
19 already looked at it.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: They have looked it?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Now,
22 Governor --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: I thought maybe you'd
24 found my credit card.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No, no.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 We -- well, we noticed the new vehicle you
2 have is Florida One vehicle, the four-wheel
3 drive. We thought this would be appropriate to
4 put on the front of the vehicle.
5 And how you are prone to lose things, we've
6 given you two of them.
7 So if we could make a motion -- if we could
8 both make a motion, Governor, that the he coon
9 plate be the official front license plate of
10 Florida Number One tag -- vehicle.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: I might interpret that as
12 a motion to adjourn.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No,
14 fortunately, the Haitian delegation is not here
15 right now, because it might be kind of hard to
16 translate.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that might be a
18 little hard to explain.
19 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Governor,
20 Cabinet.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, just on
23 the official state tag of Florida, I want to
24 thank the Cabinet and the Governor for including
25 a symbol of the Florida citrus on there.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 I think it's appropriate that we do that. It's
2 our number one agriculture commodity.
3 We produce more citrus in the state of
4 Florida than all other states combined in this
5 nation.
6 And, Governor, you'll be glad to know that
7 last year, it's official now, Polk County's back
8 as king of citrus, they're back in the number
9 one production of --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are they really?
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- citrus in the
12 state.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very good.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: What I liked was the
16 numbers, and why don't you give them to us of
17 how much the -- the product went up.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. We're going
19 to have the most -- the largest and most
20 valuable crop of citrus ever in the 100 years of
21 our production, which is projected for next
22 year.
23 Michael, how --
24 MR. SPARKS: It's a billion dollar figure.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Little over a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 billion dollars this year, which really
2 translates into about an 8 billion dollar
3 industry. And that's really about 150,000
4 jobs. So --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think we really
6 have to compliment the Citrus Commission,
7 Mutual, everybody that's working on it in your
8 department.
9 I have never known a time in which you had
10 increasing crop production that you had
11 increasing prices.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's always, from the
14 history of man, I believe, it's gone the other
15 way. And it's taken us -- any time we've had
16 increased production, we had lower prices, and
17 it took us several years to be able to start
18 selling that crop.
19 Here we've literally created a market. And
20 the demand is so great that even as the
21 production has gone up, prices have gone up
22 dramatically --
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Tremendously. And
24 I --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very, very big. From
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 about a dollar a box to three fifty, three sixty
2 something a box. Just a tremendous increase.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And I think you and
4 I, Governor, clearly get the credit for all of
5 that. Since it is up, we need to take advantage
6 of that.
7 In fact, the Citrus Commission is kicking
8 off a new campaign in New York this week,
9 I believe, at Carnegie Hall. Lauren Bacall will
10 be there with the American Cancer Society, the
11 Florida -- the Heart Association, showing the
12 valuable health benefits of citrus, which it's
13 really unprecedented for those groups to endorse
14 a product.
15 And the Commission is spending a lot of
16 money letting people know that not only is
17 citrus good, it's good for you, and all of the
18 United States will be hearing about that in
19 the --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think, again --
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- things ahead.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- the nice thing is
23 if -- when you go to Europe, people don't ask
24 for a glass of orange juice, they want some
25 Florida --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES
September 26, 1996
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's great.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- orange juice. So they
3 really know that the Florida product is the
4 premium. And we have been -- been able to
5 market that. Florida Fresh has been great.
6 So --
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, Governor, the
8 competition for the new state license plate has
9 been most exciting. And all the staff members
10 who participated in all the different Cabinet
11 agencies trying to put together their
12 contribution, I think they're to be commended.
13 But I think, especially based on what
14 you've -- and the Commissioner have been talking
15 about in terms of the citrus industry, I think
16 this is a very, very appropriate plate for the
17 State of Florida. We're real proud of it.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
19 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
20 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 26, 1996
26
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Education?
2 Or are we -- Administrative Commission?
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Revenue.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Department of
5 Revenue. Let's try that.
6 MR. FUCHS: Given the popularity of the
7 license plate and all of the money citrus is
8 bringing in the state, maybe I could get
9 together with General Milligan, and we could
10 propose a new State of Florida dollar bill,
11 start printing our own, and design it, and --
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Interesting.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: We don't have that
14 kind of time.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You can go
16 to jail for that --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Be careful.
18 MR. FUCHS: -- to add to that. Big effort.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I approve the
20 minutes -- I mean, I second -- I mean, I --
21 motion on the minutes, Governor.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: And seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 26, 1996
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. FUCHS: Items 2 and 5 are consent rule
3 administrative adjustments.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 MR. FUCHS: Two through five. I'm sorry.
6 I misspoke. Two through five.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
8 MR. FUCHS: Item 6 --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection --
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That is Items --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that's approved.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- 2 through 5,
14 Governor.
15 MR. FUCHS: Two through five.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Two through five are
17 approved, without objection.
18 MR. FUCHS: Item 6 is a request for
19 authority to enter into contracts between the
20 Department of Revenue and the 14 Certified
21 Public Accountants, who are listed, for tax
22 compliance audits. This is part of our Contract
23 Audit Program.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 26, 1996
28
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, that's approved.
4 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
6 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
7 concluded.)
8 *
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
29
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now State Board of
2 Education.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 1, our Legislative
4 Budget Request for the Department of Education,
5 State University System, the State Board of
6 Community Colleges.
7 And Commissioner Brogan will speak to that.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, and members
9 of the State Board of Education, we have
10 representatives from all three of those entities
11 who are here with us today.
12 I know that you and your staff members have
13 received those tentative budgets. I think we
14 have Debi Gallay, who is here from the
15 State University System.
16 Debi, you might just want to come forward
17 in the event there's a question.
18 And Clark Maxwell was going to be here from
19 Community Colleges. And he is. I see him in
20 the back. If he'll come forward.
21 I would make this comment, and that is that
22 we are all required by law to bring forward a
23 tentative budget for the upcoming legislative
24 session. But I would also underscore the word
25 tentative.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
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1 And I'll speak more for myself than the
2 other two in this particular case. But as we
3 stated last year, I think you'll probably see
4 these budgets look a little bit differently as
5 we move to and through the legislative session.
6 But these are based on estimates in the
7 category, for example, of prekindergarten
8 through twelfth grade. Everything that we're
9 doing right now with this budget is based on
10 estimate. We don't have the luxury yet of
11 having the reporting periods come in, and other
12 information we're going to need to do a better
13 job a little later down the road, of being more
14 specific with this information.
15 But again, we felt the best way to proceed
16 this morning would probably be between the three
17 of us, knowing that you and your Cabinet aides
18 and staff members have reviewed all of this
19 entirely. And probably, Governor, just felt the
20 best way to proceed would be to see if you all
21 have any questions on any of the three.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I -- yes. I have a
23 couple of questions, and I haven't, you know,
24 I think had a chance to really digest the budget
25 request or anything.
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1 And I understand what you're saying, this
2 is the first cut that you've gotten together,
3 and it may change.
4 In the State University System, I note that
5 you've requested 15 million dollars for equity
6 funding.
7 The -- it looks like this time the
8 Board of Regents wants to present a performance
9 based budgeting idea. And it seems like if
10 we're doing that, you know, that would have
11 some --
12 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
13 room.)
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- deequalizing effect on
15 the universities, because where before we just
16 said we were going to keep everybody sort of in
17 place.
18 Now, in performance based budgeting, we're
19 taking a different idea. We're going to look at
20 what you're -- what you're doing. Should we be
21 just continuing to increase equity funding at
22 the same time that we're embarking on
23 performance based?
24 Aren't we on a -- just -- aren't they
25 contradictory a little bit?
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
32
1 MS. GALLAY: Well, on the performance based
2 program budgeting, right now the University
3 System, at the request of the House, Senate, and
4 Governor's Office, is on hold till there's some
5 agreement among the measures.
6 And as a result, we were requested to
7 submit our budget without incorporating
8 performance --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: I see.
10 MS. GALLAY: -- based program budgeting.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: I see.
12 MS. GALLAY: And the issue on the equity
13 funding, that study was done, as you know,
14 Governor, about four years ago. The request was
15 for -- what was calculated was at 30 million.
16 The dollars appropriated in the intervening
17 three years equated to 15 of that 30 million.
18 We -- the amount that's in the budget request is
19 the balance. It is not even inflated for the
20 four intervening years.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: So it's sort of a
22 catch-up on where we are. You're --
23 MS. GALLAY: Yes, sir.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- also waiting to see
25 what would happen. Well --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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September 26, 1996
33
1 MS. GALLAY: Yes, sir.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- thank you for that.
3 Now, the other question I might have in
4 regard to the university portion of the
5 budget --
6 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
7 room.)
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- is I understand that
9 you have funded the -- some of the provisions
10 for -- under the Saunders Bill, I guess it would
11 have been where some of the lottery money went
12 for tuition and all.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
14 Also tentative, based on the fact that
15 according to the legislation, the
16 PEPC Commission and the Department of Education
17 are required to -- and we embrace that
18 requirement --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- go through a
21 complete study of all of the financial
22 assistance --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Right.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- programs in the
25 state, which include merit based, need based, as
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
34
1 well as create language that would see us
2 ultimately request the money to implement the
3 lottery based scholarship program.
4 So as Debi mentioned on your first
5 question, we're in a similar situation on the
6 issue of student financial assistance. This is
7 very tentative based on the outcome of that
8 particular study, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, what I -- the
10 question I have is it looks like, Debi, that
11 this money is funded by taking money from the
12 public education funds. Isn't that going to --
13 MS. GALLAY: Okay.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- change the balance of
15 the --
16 MS. GALLAY: The way --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: --
18 seventy/fifteen/fifteen division.
19 MS. GALLAY: No, sir.
20 The way the university request is, it still
21 incorporates the 15 percent request.
22 I believe --
23 And, Commissioner, I don't want to speak
24 out of line.
25 -- I believe what occurred is the -- the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
35
1 lottery scholarship is funded at about
2 15 million dollars. That money was taken out of
3 the public school budget, with a request for
4 replacement of general revenue, so that no
5 budget entity within the education -- within
6 education is adversely affected.
7 It was not taken out of the community
8 college or university budget. We still formed
9 our budgets assuming we received 15 percent of
10 the latest lottery estimate.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that's a tortured
12 answer, but does that still leave public schools
13 70 percent?
14 MS. GALLAY: No.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: No. Okay. Well, then --
16 MS. GALLAY: I didn't want to speak for
17 public schools.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Then you done robbed
19 Peter to pay Paul, Debi.
20 MS. GALLAY: Well, I didn't do it.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Like I say, Governor,
22 the bottom line on this is until we finish the
23 complete study and know exactly how much it's
24 going to take to fund all three of those
25 entities, need based, merit based, and lottery,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
36
1 and then determine where it's going to come
2 from, it's -- I understand exactly what you
3 mean. But it's a little premature to be able to
4 give you an exact answer on that.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, one other -- just a
6 policy question, it looks like it -- the budget
7 does not -- and this is a public education
8 question, in effect -- did not fund full service
9 schools.
10 Is there a rationale for why we're not
11 proposing funding --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Just as we have in
13 the past, looking to try to see if we can work
14 with other agencies, like HRS, et cetera, and
15 see if we can include that in their budgets.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Hmm.
17 TREASURER NELSON: May I follow-up?
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's see. HRS took
19 four hundred and something million dollars worth
20 of cuts last year, and education got all its
21 increase.
22 You're going to take from them again?
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No. We just happen
24 to think that those are more in line with HRS
25 activities, even though they might even be
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
37
1 offered on a school campus. And we want to see
2 if we can work with the Legislature to earmark
3 some funds through them. Or if they feel
4 there's another appropriate agency that it
5 should go through.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: That was a 9.2 million
8 dollar program, basically for a one-stop shop in
9 a school.
10 Can y'all tell us where that 9.2 million
11 was redirected? On the full service school
12 funding?
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm not quite sure I
14 understand your question, Commissioner.
15 TREASURER NELSON: There was a 9.2 million
16 dollar full service schools was cut in this
17 particular budget.
18 And I was wondering: Where was that 9.2
19 redirected to be used for this program, and
20 what'll happen to those services now?
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The answer, I guess,
22 is: It's not anywhere right now. And it goes
23 back to the answer I was trying to give to the
24 Governor, is that it remains to be seen when we
25 get through the legislative process where it
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
38
1 will end up.
2 If the Legislature, in other words, decides
3 that they want to put it back in education, they
4 will. If they decide that they want to put it
5 in another agency's budget, they could do that
6 as well.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let me just ask
8 this question, and I'll try to leave this thing
9 alone: But has the Department made any
10 recommendation, or any finding that full service
11 schools are not beneficial, that they're not
12 helping overall, in effect, education by
13 allowing the -- the use of our schools, and also
14 allowing parents to be able to get some help at
15 areas where the school is involved?
16 I mean, has that decision been made, or --
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No, sir. That is
18 not. My point is is that --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: You just want somebody
20 else to fund it.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: There you go.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
23 I think that's basically the questions that
24 I have now. Thank you, sir.
25 Yes, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
39
1 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a couple of
2 questions --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- and just as a
5 follow-up to that, for us to give our comments
6 about sitting here as the State Board of
7 Education, I distinctly remember hearing some
8 great success stories about these one-stop
9 shops, where -- where you have a variety of
10 social, health, economic, and educational
11 services all located at the schools.
12 And as one member of the State Board of
13 Education, I would be concerned about the cuts
14 of that kind of money from the very wonderful
15 success stories that we've heard coming out of
16 there.
17 If I may, just ask a couple of other
18 questions though. We spent a lot of attention,
19 and you have given a great deal of time to the
20 critically low schools.
21 And can -- can you, Frank, or your staff,
22 share with us which components of this budget
23 link with the funding the critically low
24 schools.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: All of these
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
40
1 particular areas, I guess, in answer to your
2 question, Commissioner, can be attributable to
3 critically low performing schools.
4 For example, the staff development piece,
5 which is 12.1 million dollars, that's a
6 7 million dollar increase over last year.
7 That's to do a better job on the Sunshine State
8 Standards Assessments, staff development
9 activities for changing the program, et cetera.
10 We also believe that there's the
11 possibility of some Federal money again this
12 year. As you know, we were able to use some of
13 that Federal money last year. There's the
14 possibility of having some access to Federal
15 dollars again this year.
16 The individual districts last year took up
17 the charge, and I guess Dade County is probably,
18 just by sheer size, one of the most
19 significant. I think they allocated 35 million
20 dollars to their critically low performing
21 schools.
22 So I guess what we're saying is that
23 between all of the entities that we're asking
24 for in terms of budget, class size reductions,
25 et cetera, and what the local districts are
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
41
1 doing to change the program in those schools, we
2 hope those are going to have the most
3 significant impact.
4 Staff development is a big piece of
5 changing the program in critically low school --
6 or any school, for that matter.
7 And, by the way, back to the other issue.
8 Believe me, I have seen some great things
9 happening in some of the programs that I have
10 visited out there on some of those school
11 campuses.
12 And by virtue of the fact that full service
13 schools is not in this budget, that's not an
14 indication that some of these things aren't well
15 received and aren't providing services that were
16 not provided before.
17 It simply is, as the Governor put it better
18 than I, is trying to find a way to separate it
19 from the education budget; and, quite frankly,
20 still see if we can continue a lot of those
21 activities out there.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. I would like
23 to -- I notice that -- in here that there is a
24 significant increase in the funding for distance
25 learning in both community colleges and the
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
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1 universities.
2 Is there -- is that additional funding
3 being coordinated between community colleges and
4 universities, and how it's going to be spent.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well -- Clark, you
6 want to --
7 MR. MAXWELL: Mr. Treasurer, we have
8 established a Florida Institute of Postsecondary
9 Education that's comprised of presidents of both
10 systems, Dr. Reed and myself, a member of
11 the Board of Regents, and the Chairman of the
12 State Board of Community Colleges.
13 And we are working in a very coordinated
14 fashion through FDLN in the expenditure of those
15 monies. We've got a lot of checks and balances
16 as we go forward.
17 We're in the process, working with the --
18 with the proviso dollars that were appropriated
19 last year to FDLN for the purpose of
20 postsecondary education.
21 We are working on plans -- submitting those
22 plans to FDLN, working in coordination with both
23 the House and the Senate, and then through the
24 State Board of Education, in moving forward.
25 Last year, we had jointly requested
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
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1 14 million dollars for postsecondary education
2 as a recommendation of four presidents,
3 university system, four presidents of the
4 community college system working together.
5 We're looking now at a continuation of
6 those programs, and at the same time, looking at
7 the infrastructure needs of the various systems
8 in order to move forward with distance learning.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Thank you for
10 that, Clark.
11 Now, Frank, can you tell us what -- what is
12 the budget reflecting in distance learning,
13 if any, for the public schools?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, we have
15 requested 75 million dollars for distribution to
16 the 67 school districts for the use of
17 additional technology.
18 Also through the efforts of the Distance
19 Learning Network, who will be reviewing, through
20 our office, the plans being developed by those
21 67 districts for the expenditure of that money
22 towards technology.
23 The real idea there is to try to prevent
24 duplication of effort, or -- or direct people
25 away from purchases of outdated hardware,
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
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1 et cetera, et cetera, but still give them the
2 flexibility to design technology programs for
3 their district.
4 I need to say, and I know we've been
5 working with the Governor's office on this, that
6 the Distance Learning Network is still very much
7 in its infancy. And we're grappling -- believe
8 me, as chairman of that group, I can tell you,
9 we're grappling with some issues relative to
10 governance, and relative to just who is going to
11 approve what in the final analysis.
12 I read a newspaper article not too long ago
13 about consensus. And let me tell you, folks, as
14 much as I love consensus, living in the world of
15 politics, we all know that it's great to reach
16 consensus on everything we do, but we also know
17 that occasionally when the rubber meets the
18 road, you've got to vote and take a stand on
19 something.
20 And we're still working through that
21 process with the Florida Distance Learning
22 Network as well.
23 But public schools, we hope, through the
24 efforts of distance learning, will -- I guess
25 the terminology is be better spending in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 26, 1996
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1 future that 75 million dollars to make certain
2 that we're utilizing the technology
3 appropriately. And purchasing it.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- to follow up on that
7 Florida Distance Learning just one step further,
8 and I think it's a huge issue.
9 I guess my question to you,
10 Commissioner Brogan, is: You're talking about
11 voting and -- when do you -- when do you surmise
12 that a vote will be taken that will actually --
13 I mean, I have a problem with going to the
14 Legislature and asking for 50 million dollars --
15 in excess of 50 million dollars between
16 community colleges and the university system if
17 we haven't made some very basic decisions.
18 And my concern is public access. And,
19 frankly, I'm not sure that we've totally
20 resolved those issues.
21 So when do you surmise that those sort of
22 things are going to be resolved?
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would suggest,
24 Secretary, that we're going to have to have
25 those things resolved before the Legislature
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1 meets again.
2 Or I would suggest the Legislature will fix
3 some of those things for us.
4 And what I continue to tell the group is
5 that we're going to have to resolve the issue of
6 access, we're going to have to resolve the issue
7 of just how much authority the Distance Learning
8 Network is going to have with groups like
9 community colleges and university systems,
10 et cetera.
11 Because unless we can get it resolved here
12 in the next several months, I'm convinced the
13 Legislature, who created, by the way, the
14 Distance Learning Network in the first place,
15 will have to be the ones who are going to have
16 to legislate some changes in just those issues.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Just one final question,
19 Governor.
20 Frank, since we sit as a policy making
21 body, I'm concerned about the policy that
22 typically has been set that we leave the matter
23 of teachers' salaries to the local school
24 districts.
25 And yet Florida doesn't rank very high on
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1 the 50 states in average teacher salaries, it's
2 about 26th.
3 Is -- is there a policy declaration, or
4 should there be, in your budget submittal having
5 to do with the question of the salary levels?
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Commissioner, that's
7 a good question, and one we've wrestled with for
8 some time.
9 You've heard my speech on the issue of
10 teachers' salaries. I think the vast majority
11 of teachers deserve more. I think the system
12 that we have somewhat disintegrated into over
13 the last 20 years through the collective
14 bargaining process has simply lent itself more
15 toward a system that rewards completely at the
16 local level, and rewards only -- or in large
17 measure, for moving just from one step to the
18 next, which in my view, is an inefficient use of
19 salary money, and does nothing more than plug it
20 into a group of pigeonholes with no regard for
21 performance of the district, performance of the
22 schools, performance of individuals.
23 One of the things -- and that's why I
24 underscored tentative with this budget, that
25 we're looking at in our policy department right
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1 now, is trying to, in essence, recreate
2 something that the State of Florida was engaged
3 in some years ago, which conceptually was a
4 very, very fine idea. The problem wasn't with
5 the concept, the problem was with the process
6 and what it became.
7 Some years ago, if you remember, there was
8 a program called Meritorious Schools in the
9 State of Florida that actually rewarded a team
10 of individuals, school site, for achieving
11 certain increases in the performance of that
12 school.
13 And the idea was to award them a prorated
14 share of dollars, allow that to be distributed
15 among the staff members of that particular
16 school, over and above whatever it was the
17 individual district did.
18 There were several flaws in the program.
19 One, it was neither challenging nor rigorous,
20 sadly. The concept was good, but it never
21 evolved into something that was truly
22 challenging and truly rigorous, so that anyone
23 could achieve it. Even a critically low
24 performing school could move their students up
25 significantly, in -- in the rankings, and
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1 provide some of that reward.
2 But the other flaw, in my opinion, was the
3 fact that two major contributing partners in the
4 success of that school were the students and the
5 parents. And yet the only people that were
6 awarded were the parents -- were the employees.
7 Now, you can't give students money, as much
8 as they might like to see that. So what we're
9 talking about and what we're working on now; and
10 if we're in a position to, we'll bring forward
11 to the Legislature this year, would be something
12 akin to that, that uses student achievement
13 levels, and other indicators of school progress,
14 because standardized tests, as we all know, are
15 not the only indication of a school's
16 achievement.
17 But would -- if -- if we can put it
18 together, provide a financial reward to the
19 employees of the school, plus an amount of money
20 prorated that would go to the School Advisory
21 Council to be used at their discretion so that,
22 indeed, the -- the students and the parents and
23 the business partners in that school can also
24 enjoy in some of those rewards.
25 So I agree with what -- exactly what you're
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1 saying. I think our -- our -- our pay raise
2 range in this state is significant from lowest
3 county up to the highest county.
4 And -- but more importantly than that, in
5 my opinion, is the fact that I think we simply,
6 through collectively bargaining, allowed this
7 system to believe that there is only one way to
8 do this, and that is to create a salary schedule
9 and then argue, essentially, over how much money
10 goes into each of those pigeonholes, rather than
11 see boards and union representatives sit down
12 and really craft systems that will, in my
13 opinion, reward individuals for -- for going
14 above and beyond the call of duty. It is not an
15 easy thing to do, believe me.
16 But I still think it's something that we as
17 a state need to look at. The only reason we
18 hesitate from a statewide initiative is a
19 greater disaster was the Master Teacher Program
20 that the state entered into some years ago. It
21 was short-lived, thank goodness.
22 And I think the biggest flaw in that
23 program was the fact that we did try to create a
24 one size fits all approach to rewarding
25 individuals. And we found that there -- it
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1 simply was a virtual impossibility to do. Those
2 things are better crafted at a local level in
3 the communities and school districts.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, as long as
5 we're --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- beating this dead
8 horse, I was -- I got an explanation on this,
9 Frank, but I still want to raise the issue.
10 I -- I see a 600 million dollar increase in
11 your budget, of which less than 20 percent of it
12 is paid by the local systems, the State is
13 absorbing over 80 percent of that increase.
14 And that doesn't seem to be a good balance
15 with what I hear from you all the time about
16 pushing responsibility, pushing accountability,
17 and those -- funding goes with that. And so I'm
18 a little concerned about how it's out of whack.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. It's an
20 interesting system. And if you look at it, just
21 as you did, it appears as though the entire
22 contribution is coming -- or the lion's share is
23 coming from the State.
24 But if you take it as an individual entity,
25 and you look at a handful of counties in the
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1 State, for example, Martin, Collier, Monroe, and
2 a few others, in actuality, the lion's share is
3 coming from the local taxpayers, 90 percent, in
4 several districts around the state of Florida;
5 10 percent from the State.
6 What you're addressing is the FEFP and the
7 equalization issue that essentially does provide
8 what I still consider to be an imbalance in some
9 places.
10 By the way, that compression issue which we
11 addressed during the last session is addressed
12 again in this budget, trying to bring more
13 closely together the disparity, district to
14 district, 1 to 67 on that list, is an important
15 issue.
16 And the whole issue of -- of the 90 percent
17 cap, and State versus local contribution in this
18 thing is what makes funding requests so
19 interesting in the state of Florida.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Not happy with the
21 explanation, but I hear it again.
22 Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: In the --
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Consistent.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The only way to
2 change is to totally change the funding formula
3 for the State of Florida.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Mr. Commissioner --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- if we're through with
7 that subject, in light of the comments that you
8 made on the last round of comments that you were
9 making in regard to the full service school, I
10 would like to sort of put on the record what I
11 think is a philosophical difference, in that you
12 had said that you're not funding the full
13 service schools, because it was hard to do
14 everything that education needed, I think, and
15 to put this nine-and-a-half million dollars, or
16 whatever it is, in there, too.
17 I -- we initiated the full service schools
18 early on in my administration. And my feeling
19 is that this is a paramount education issue. I
20 don't think you can teach a kid if they have
21 physical and mental problems, if they have
22 family problems, and all of that.
23 And I think the whole idea of full service
24 schools was that in every county, you would
25 somewhere have in some kind of access that
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1 parents, working parents in many instances,
2 would have the ability to come in and interface
3 with some of the -- our agencies. But also we
4 were doing that because the kids were there, the
5 parents have to go to pick up the kids.
6 So I think the whole basis of that was that
7 this promoted education, this helped education.
8 And to say that this is, you know, somebody
9 else's job or something, I just want to --
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I understand --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- put those on the
12 record.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Governor. And
14 believe me, I think philosophically, the only
15 difference that we really have is where the
16 money resides. It purely --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- an accounting
19 system, I guess, because I -- like you, I will
20 support the money being placed somewhere,
21 wherever the Legislature deems that is
22 appropriate, rather than just abandon the
23 money.
24 Because as you and the Commissioner both
25 mentioned, there are some good things that are
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1 going -- some very good things that are going on
2 out there.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, sir.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a --
6 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, just as a --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
8 TREASURER NELSON: -- matter for the
9 record, likewise, I think that for the quality
10 of teachers, we've got to address, as a matter
11 of policy, what has traditionally just been left
12 to the districts, which is the question of the
13 salary levels.
14 And as a -- just for the record, this
15 member of the Board of Education would like to
16 say that there needs to be some policy
17 declaration in this budget with regard to the
18 level of those salaries.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there a
21 motion?
22 TREASURER NELSON: I move --
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move --
24 TREASURER NELSON: -- it.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Governor.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
4 Without objection, the --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: By the way, the
6 motion included all three entities, Governor?
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is a request for
10 Exception to Order of Priority for Expenditure
11 of Capital Outlay and Debt Service Funds for
12 Chipola Junior College.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Been moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is an appointment to
19 the Postsecondary Education Planning Commission.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, that's approved.
24 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
25 concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 MS. SITTIG: Item 1, recommend approval of
4 the minutes of the meeting held
5 September 10th --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So move.
7 MS. SITTIG: -- 1996.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, minutes are approved.
11 MS. SITTIG: Item 2, request deferral of
12 this item until the next meeting.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MS. SITTIG: Item 3, recommend the
18 establishment of one position in excess of the
19 number fixed by the Legislature in the Office of
20 the State Attorney, Second Judicial Circuit.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MS. SITTIG: Item 4, recommend the
2 authorization to establish one position in
3 excess of the number fixed by the Legislature in
4 the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MS. SITTIG: That completes the agenda.
10 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
11 concluded.)
12 *
13
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17
18
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25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1, minutes.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 2 is a
9 purchase agreement for Oviedo to Spring Hammock
10 Trail.
11 And, Governor, we have four people who wish
12 to speak very briefly about this item.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay.
14 MS. WETHERELL: I'll call first on
15 Larry Kolk, who's with the U.S. Forest Service.
16 MR. KOLK: Governor and Cabinet, the role
17 of the U.S. Forest Service with the
18 Florida National Scenic Trail has been one of an
19 administrating agency, and in cooperation with
20 the Florida Trail Association. We've been
21 managing that trail for some ten years.
22 The Florida National Scenic Trail is a
23 national asset. And on any Federal lands
24 throughout the country, national scenic trails
25 are viewed as assets, and those states and those
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1 national forests and other Federal lands that do
2 have national scenic trails on their lands are
3 very fortunate, and look at it as the fine asset
4 to be administering and managing.
5 The Florida National Scenic Trail now in
6 Florida is recognized as a national asset. And
7 the Greenways program, you know very well what
8 it means to our Greenways program.
9 But I would ask that you consider one more
10 value to the National Scenic Trail, and that is
11 in terms of rural economic development.
12 The Florida National Scenic Trail in
13 Florida has been a -- the work of a major
14 partnership. And I just would like to take a
15 moment to mention a few of the federal, state,
16 and local government agencies and conservation
17 groups that have been connected and a part of
18 this partnership.
19 The State Division of Parks and Recreation;
20 Division of Forestry; the Office of Greenways
21 Program and Trails; and your Water Management
22 Districts; the -- the Florida Trail Association;
23 and the -- the Nature Conservancy are very, very
24 key partners with the U.S. Forest Service over
25 these ten years.
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1 Federal partners: The U.S. Forest Service;
2 U.S. Park Service; the Fish and Wildlife
3 Service; the Corps of Engineers; and the
4 Department of Defense, all for ten years have
5 been trying to put together this 1300-mile
6 segment of the National Scenic Trail.
7 This trail represents more -- this trail
8 proposal that we're talking about with -- in --
9 in the Orlando area and the -- the Rails to
10 Trails Program, represents more than hope to
11 this partnership, it represents perhaps the only
12 opportunity to make this key linkage in this
13 1300-mile section and 1300-mile recreation --
14 outstanding recreation resource in Florida.
15 I would ask, please, for your support of
16 this proposal, that we can deliver -- this
17 partnership can deliver, this National Scenic
18 Trail, this 1300-mile asset to Florida -- that
19 this partnership can deliver that to the
20 citizens of Florida, and the people of this
21 nation.
22 Thank you.
23 MS. WETHERELL: Next is Kent Wimmer, who's
24 President of the Florida Recreational Trails
25 Council.
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1 MR. WIMMER: Good morning, Cabinet. My
2 name's Kent Wimmer. I am the Chairman of the
3 Florida Recreational Trails Council, I'm --
4 serve on the Board of Directors of the Florida
5 Trail Association.
6 The event -- the Oviedo to Spring Hammock
7 line provides a critical link in -- for the
8 Florida National Scenic Trail that Larry was
9 just talking about through the very urbanized --
10 fast urbanizing east central Florida area.
11 This east central Florida area is the most
12 difficult place within the entire state of
13 Florida that we have of trying to get this --
14 this wilderness trail through that we're -- that
15 we're building and developing from Big Cypress
16 National Preserve in south Florida, all the way
17 to Gulf Islands National Seashore south of
18 Pensacola.
19 After years of on the ground research by
20 the Florida Trail Association, this -- this
21 corridor is identified by the Florida Trail
22 Association, U.S. Forest Service, state,
23 regional, local planners as probably the only
24 and best way to get through this very urbanizing
25 area of east central Florida.
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1 You know, without this connection, we
2 really feel it'd probably be impossible to
3 protect the route for the Florida National
4 Scenic Trail through the area.
5 The Florida Recreational Trails Council and
6 the Florida Trail Association urges you to
7 approve this project, and make this trail a
8 reality for Floridians and the visitors to
9 Florida.
10 Thank you very much.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Next is Ken Bryan, who's
12 President of the Rails to Trails Association.
13 MR. BRYAN: Good morning, Governor and
14 Cabinet.
15 I'm Ken Bryan, and I'm with the Rails to
16 Trails Conservancy. We're a national, nonprofit
17 501(C) (3) organization that happens to be the
18 nation's largest trail advocacy group in the
19 country.
20 And I'm here to talk about the local
21 support for this trail. Seminole County has
22 enjoyed a tremendous support for trails and
23 greenways within their community.
24 They just recently have appointed a Trails
25 and Greenways Task Force, which the Rails to
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1 Trails Conservancy participates with. And
2 they've just recently adopted a Bike Ways,
3 Trails, and Greenways Master Plan that
4 identifies this corridor as being key.
5 Currently, there's a 1 cent sales tax in
6 Seminole County for transportation. When that's
7 due to expire, the County has directed the staff
8 to look into renewing this 1 cent sales tax, not
9 for transportation, not for education, but
10 strictly for greenways and trails.
11 And I think for a community to tax themself
12 just for greenways and trails, that shows the
13 tremendous support for greenways and trails in
14 their community.
15 We always hear about the economic impacts
16 that these facilities have on local
17 governments. In the National Park Service study
18 in 1992, it documented the St. Marks --
19 Tallahassee/St. Marks Rail Trail as the second
20 largest industry for Wakulla County.
21 We've been able to calculate on a national
22 average that the average rail trail produces
23 2.02 million dollars per year per trail. Now,
24 that's in goods and services, does not -- does
25 not include any sales tax revenue, or any income
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1 revenue generated by that.
2 Using that figure, this acquisition would
3 pay for itself in three-and-a-half years. Now,
4 certainly if every investment that the
5 State of Florida makes has the ability to pay
6 for itself in three-and-a-half years, I think
7 it's remarkable. If we could get every one of
8 our roads to be able to pay for themselves in
9 three-and-a-half years, we certainly would have
10 something to be proud of.
11 So in closing, I just want to say that the
12 Rails to Trails Conservancy strongly urges you
13 to approve this contract. I think the
14 Department has -- has been -- it's incredible
15 that they've been able to get this corridor
16 under contract, and I urge that it be purchased.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. AYER: Governor and Cabinet, I'm
19 Fred Ayer, Director of Greenways and Trails.
20 Just summarizing basically what the people
21 before you have been saying. It's part of the
22 statewide greenways system, an integral part of
23 a 200-mile central Florida loop. It was
24 negotiated hard, and we feel like it's an
25 integral part of the statewide greenways system.
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1 We -- the smaller maps that you have in
2 front of you here are indicative of what you see
3 of the larger GIS maps, and kind of shows you
4 how the whole area relates down in that
5 particular area.
6 The analogy would be the Pinellas Trail,
7 which has millions of visitors every year, and
8 does create lots of dollars.
9 The greenways system itself, these counties
10 and cities are building greenways almost faster
11 than the State can help coordinate them.
12 And it's important to our ecosystem's
13 management approach, and our approach for
14 economic benefits for the state to be able to
15 keep buying these connectors. Once this
16 particular connector is done, we're in the
17 process of buying a few other connectors, it'll
18 loop all the way from the Withlacoochee area
19 around Crystal River, all the way down through
20 the Withlacoochee State Trail, down across the
21 Lake County, back over to Orange County and
22 Seminole County, all the way back up the Ocala
23 National Forest to the Jacksonville and Palatka
24 area.
25 And had had the pleasure of four or five of
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1 you on field trips, and you know a part of the
2 area.
3 But it should be able to help Floridians
4 and tourists be able to hike, bike, canoe, and
5 camp across the state of Florida.
6 Thanks.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Now, any questions?
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you know, it looks
9 like this is a very strategic piece of property,
10 and would add to everything that we're talking
11 about doing, and I think we are very, very proud
12 of what we're doing in Greenways, Rails and
13 Trails, all of those things.
14 My only question is: Primarily in the --
15 the value of this. I recognize that CSX is a
16 public held corporation, they've got a bottom
17 line that they're looking at, and that's their
18 responsibility and their job.
19 I know that we've got a couple of
20 appraisals here, and we're talking about whether
21 we're going to take the highest number of those
22 appraisals.
23 My -- and I also know that CSX had a price
24 originally of twenty something million dollars
25 on this, so their asking price was maybe higher.
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1 Having said all that, for the life of me, I
2 can't understand this value of $96,000 an acre,
3 or -- is that right, ninety something thousand
4 dollars an acre.
5 MR. AYER: Seventy-eight I think.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pardon?
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN:
8 Seventy-eight thousand.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seventy-eight.
10 Well, $78,000 an acre with a corridor of --
11 of this acreage.
12 Now, to me, I equate that kind of number
13 with a shopping center parcel. One of the --
14 you know, you get into seventy-five to a hundred
15 to a a hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars
16 an acre, you're buying a -- you know, a prime
17 shopping center in the most prime location.
18 It seems like to me, you know, this is sort
19 of a corridor. It's not the widest piece of,
20 you know, land I would think in the world. And
21 so I guess I might be saying to myself, how in
22 the heck did appraisers -- do appraisers get
23 this kind of number on it. I just --
24 MS. WETHERELL: We do have someone here
25 from our agency who can explain --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, maybe we should,
2 because I --
3 MS. WETHERELL: -- the appraisal
4 methodology.
5 Ike Jacobsen from the --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, I --
7 MS. WETHERELL: -- DEP is here.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Governor, I agree
9 with you. I support the greenways and the
10 trails enthusiastically.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But, you know, to
13 put it very simply, they don't think much of
14 this down at the 7-Eleven. You talk to a
15 taxpayer down there about paying $78,000 an acre
16 for a railroad bed, and I guarantee you, you'll
17 get some thousand yard stares.
18 It just doesn't make any sense to me at
19 all.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- not just a railroad
23 bed, an abandoned railroad bed.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. Thank you.
25 TREASURER NELSON: I have a document here
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1 entitled Appraisal Review. And if you all would
2 comment on this.
3 And I certainly agree with the two previous
4 speakers, the public policy of supporting these
5 rails to trails and greenways is solid. The
6 question is one of compensation here.
7 This appraisal review arrives at this
8 figure, an average figure of 78,000 by comparing
9 this abandoned railroad property to commercial
10 land sales from 84,000 to 185,000 -- this is
11 Mr. Carpenter's appraisal.
12 His appraisal of industrial land sales from
13 36,000 to a 103,000 per acre; his mixed use land
14 sales from 21,000 to 42,000 per acre; his PUD,
15 office commercial land sales from 110,000 to
16 232,000 per acre; his residential land sales
17 from 27,000 to 77,000 per acre.
18 And how can you take that kind of -- of
19 appraisal of land that is set-aside for all of
20 those uses, commercial, industrial, mixed use,
21 PUD, residential, and apply it to an abandoned
22 railroad?
23 MS. WETHERELL: I'm going to let the expert
24 talk to you. But let me just give you a very
25 brief explanation of why I think that it makes
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1 sense.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pull your mic down just a
3 little bit.
4 MS. WETHERELL: You know, if you look at
5 the Pinellas Trail and think today of purchasing
6 the Pinellas Trail property, and the kind of
7 areas that the Pinellas Trail goes through, you
8 would understand the -- what you'd have to pay
9 for that property today. And you think about
10 the hundreds of thousands of citizens who use
11 that, the recreational value, and the economic
12 development benefits that you get from it, and
13 consider all those things.
14 Today when you're purchasing 13 miles
15 through highly developed, through commercial,
16 through mixed use properties, and you base
17 that -- value of that property on the adjacent
18 property, the value of that property to the
19 adjacent property, comparable sales, and you
20 come up with those kinds of numbers that range
21 from 35,000 to $200,000 an acre, it's a lot of
22 money. You know, and I have the same reaction,
23 it's a lot of money.
24 So the question becomes, you know, if you
25 want a greenways and trail system through the
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1 state of Florida, and you're purchasing it
2 today, and you know you won't have the
3 opportunity 10 years from now, that those
4 properties will be developed, they will be in
5 some other use, you consider those things, and
6 decide if -- it's too bad we didn't purchase it
7 10 years ago or 20 years.
8 But we're operating today in trying to get
9 a linked greenway system throughout the state,
10 not only for people, but for wildlife. It's
11 part of a planned system for the last several
12 years.
13 So, to me, that's where it gets -- the
14 value is in what it means to the citizens of
15 Florida and to the wildlife in Florida, and it's
16 going to be a lost opportunity down the road.
17 But let me let the -- our appraisal expert
18 go further.
19 MR. JACOBSEN: My name is Ike Jacobsen with
20 the Bureau of Appraisal at DEP.
21 The appraisers on this project used what we
22 call in the valuation technique, the at-fence or
23 across-the-fence value. And that's where they
24 take comparable sales of land that goes to
25 different highest and best uses, and apply these
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1 values -- these units of value to the land
2 that's affected or in that highest and best
3 use.
4 You add them altogether for a corridor, and
5 you come up with these -- with these values.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let me ask you: How wide
7 is this right-of-way that we're talking about?
8 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: Eighty to a
9 hundred feet.
10 MR. JACOBSEN: Eighty to a hundred feet.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Eighty to a
12 hundred feet. You know, at some stage, I
13 thought an appraisal is looking at highest and
14 best use, you know, what are the commercial
15 things it can be used for.
16 With 80 to 100 feet, there ain't every use
17 in the world they could -- you can use it for.
18 And it seems to me, if you're comparing it to a
19 PUD, if you're comparing it to a shopping
20 center, if you're comparing it to a filling
21 station site, you know, you're talking about
22 enough land to build a filling station, enough
23 land to build a shopping center.
24 And so at some stage, you've got to segment
25 this down to parcels that are 80 to 100 feet,
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1 and you've got to say, what's that worth?
2 MR. JACOBSEN: Well --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: And I guess that's,
4 again, where you've got to help me. I can't get
5 my mind around that, and just saying that
6 compares to the doctor's office across the
7 street --
8 MR. JACOBSEN: Right.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to anything else that
10 is there.
11 MR. JACOBSEN: Right.
12 Again, when you're valuing corridors,
13 that's one of the valuation techniques, is to
14 take the at-the-fence or across-the-fence
15 value.
16 And, again, I reiterate that the appraiser
17 looks at the comparable sales of those highest
18 and best uses, derives a unit of value, and
19 applies that value to that area that's impacted
20 or affected by that highest and best use.
21 TREASURER NELSON: With no discount by
22 virtue of the fact that it's only 80 feet wide,
23 and, therefore, has a limited utility.
24 MR. JACOBSEN: But would -- it would have
25 limited utility as a stand-alone parcel. But
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1 when you're valuing corridors, what you do is
2 look at what that value that -- typically a
3 commercial site asks for X dollars per square
4 foot.
5 What they do is apply that value to that
6 part of the corridor that's right adjacent to
7 that land. If it's a commercial --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: You can have a hell of a
9 long strip shopping center if you're going --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, when --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to go with -- at
12 80 feet, you know.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: When does good --
14 when does good judgment and common sense enter
15 into this model that you --
16 MR. JACOBSEN: Well, the good judgment and
17 common sense comes with -- when the appraiser
18 estimates the highest and best use of the
19 corridor as it goes through those varying land
20 uses.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you know, it
22 seems to me, for this $78,000 an acre, through
23 an area that is not a wilderness -- we just
24 heard that, that it's a well developed area --
25 that I could buy an awful lot of trails on
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1 existing road networks, or adjacent to existing
2 road networks that we already own, and solve the
3 same problem.
4 It just does not make one bit of sense, to
5 me.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I guess the -- some
7 other question that just sort of come to mind,
8 Madam Secretary, you said we should have bought
9 it 10 years ago, or 20. I'm sure we should
10 have.
11 But also what we do here today, there are
12 going to be some other trails we want to build.
13 There are some other abandoned railroads that we
14 want to build.
15 Are we establishing now a price --
16 you know, we want to see a high speed rail in
17 Florida. The Florida east coast railroad may be
18 an area of which we're looking at a corridor,
19 you know, with the St. Joe, you know, with the
20 Florida east coast there. There are other areas
21 that we'll be looking at.
22 Have we been paying this kind of value
23 before, I guess, is what I want to know?
24 And the Pinellas Trail or some of these
25 things that you've talked about, you know, did
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1 we do things like that as we were doing that?
2 Maybe this has all slipped by me, and I just
3 haven't seen it.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Well, this is the ninth
5 acquisition that we've made under the rails to
6 trails -- the seventh out of the P 2000 money.
7 And I don't recall -- my memory's not that good
8 to tell you what we've paid per acre.
9 If there's anyone here who remembers --
10 MR. STASKIEWS: I -- I can --
11 MS. WETHERELL: Bruce can?
12 Okay. This is Bruce Staskiews from DEP.
13 MR. STASKIEWS: Hello.
14 On the Pinellas Trail, that was acquired
15 primarily by the Department of Transportation.
16 And we bought one small portion of that the last
17 year where we paid for 2,000 feet of the
18 corridor, which was about 3.2 acres. That was
19 $261,000 because of the valuation of this
20 across-the-fence method.
21 On this particular --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Per acre?
23 MR. STASKIEWS: It would have come out
24 about $90,000 an acre. But it's -- you know,
25 it's valued on the length of the corridor. And
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1 a corridor that's approximately 90 feet wide, 80
2 to 100 feet wide is about 500 linear feet. So
3 it depends on what value classification that
4 length falls into. And then that value is
5 attributed to what the adjacent property would
6 be.
7 In this particular one, when this corridor
8 was originally offered by CSX, they had offered
9 it to Florida Power Corporation for 20 million
10 dollars.
11 And then the Seminole County Board of
12 Commissioners made an offer on it last November
13 for 4 million dollars. And CSX dropped down to
14 15 million dollars.
15 When we got our appraisals in, and had
16 talked with Seminole County and every -- with
17 what they had done, we had made the original
18 offer at 7.4 million, and CSX countered back,
19 11.2 million.
20 And then after there was a meeting at CSX,
21 they were -- they wanted to retain rights on the
22 corridor. They wanted to sell it for full
23 value; retain underground rights; aboveground
24 surface rights for buildings, towers,
25 billboards, and everything.
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1 And we said that was absolutely
2 unreasonable, that we were not going to allow
3 them to retain all those rights to the corridor.
4 And so their offer at that time, they had
5 dropped down to 8.2 million dollars. We had
6 tried to work with them with another strategy
7 that they were trying to employ, which was
8 called a marketing agreement.
9 And this marketing agreement was to allow
10 them, we would own the corridor outright, but
11 would allow them to go out and find customers
12 for underground utilities, and that type of
13 arrangement, for utilities, fiber optics, any
14 kind of cable type of operation.
15 And then with that, they wanted to share
16 80 percent of the revenues that were gained from
17 that, and the State could get 20.
18 And we worked with them and tried to come
19 to some kind of agreement where we could jointly
20 use this, and we just couldn't get anywhere with
21 them that they wouldn't budge on it.
22 So then when we came up with this last
23 offer in August of the seven million five
24 hundred and twenty-nine thousand dollars, that
25 was for a full fee to the property without them
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1 retaining any rights at all.
2 And, you know, this is -- working with
3 them -- I mean, this has been going on for
4 almost a year. And, granted, it's a lot of
5 money. But to try and create something like
6 this that goes through the area that it does,
7 that it's very scenic in places, that most of it
8 is in locations where it will be a recreational
9 trail that can be used for equestrian use,
10 hiking, biking, roller blading.
11 And -- I mean, the opportunity isn't there
12 any more. I mean, once we go through this, and
13 if they decide that -- you know, we decide not
14 to buy it, and this is gone, then we will be
15 buying things adjacent to road rights of way.
16 We can't create a corridor like this in the
17 future.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Can I ask a quick
19 question?
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Is it your -- is it
22 your determination that this is absolutely the
23 lowest price that the State is going to get this
24 property?
25 MR. STASKIEWS: Yes.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The only -- the only
2 comment I'd make is that being very attuned to
3 the Pinellas Trail, having been on it a fair
4 number of times, is that it is -- it is heavily
5 used. It's phenomenal to me how many people do
6 use the trail. And --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that's right.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- and you do have to
9 be somewhat careful where you put a trail like
10 that. And it -- I mean, I think this is an
11 unbelievable amount of money --
12 MR. STASKIEWS: This can -- I'm sorry.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But, you know, I don't
14 know where we go from here.
15 MR. STASKIEWS: This one connects --
16 I mean, there's schools it connects, it connects
17 parks. I mean, it's just really a gem of this
18 type of corridor.
19 I mean, we've purchased other corridors,
20 and we're still trying to buy corridors that are
21 out in rural areas that, you know, they go
22 through -- long stretches of just very
23 underutilized property, and there aren't that
24 many users on some of these.
25 This one -- I mean, the county is already
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1 trying to get the Boy Scouts out there to clean
2 it up, the National Guard to build -- rebuild
3 the trestles. I mean, they've got all this
4 lined up, and they're ready to go with this.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: I know you've been
6 through a -- y'all have been through a long
7 process of negotiation. It sounds like you've
8 tried to work very hard at that.
9 Did you explore when you were going through
10 that, opportunities of CSX making a gift of part
11 of the provision?
12 In other words, if they had an offer of
13 20 million at one time, obviously they got
14 something to back that up, that they could have
15 called it for their purposes a higher value, or
16 something, and -- and then make a gift to us --
17 MR. STASKIEWS: That --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- we also have the
19 opportunity of a friendly condemnation,
20 you know -- I mean, of going through something
21 like that of establishing -- I mean, I'm not
22 trying to second-guess you. But --
23 MR. STASKIEWS: Well, on this particular
24 one, they have indicated that they have a value
25 that they can support that is, you know, much
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1 higher than what this is. And that was part of
2 the thing, that we would sign an IRS form saying
3 that, you know, that they --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: So you're already doing
5 that.
6 MR. STASKIEWS: -- charitable
7 contribution --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
9 But --
10 MR. STASKIEWS: -- on their part.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Governor,
12 I think the research is back, we may be our own
13 worst enemies here.
14 I kind of think the only buyer has been
15 government. And we'll probably end up bidding
16 against ourselves.
17 So if there are any other buyers out there,
18 that would make a difference. But I think we
19 can go back almost, what, almost a decade ago
20 when we purchased, what, 51 miles of railway for
21 the high speed rail.
22 And the Legislature appropriates only
23 235 million dollars for it, and it was well over
24 $100,000 an acre.
25 And in that particular agreement, the
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1 Legislature -- I think the Legislature agreed to
2 the terms, even before negotiation occurred,
3 where they allowed the railroad to keep all the
4 proceeds -- I think it was MCI -- was using
5 along the whole way.
6 Plus the -- the company -- the railroad
7 company was then contracted with by the State in
8 order to manage this particular railroad to
9 where the State or the counties had to pay an
10 additional 19 cents I think per mile per -- per
11 railroad car that we put on it, plus they were
12 also going to use it for their own purpose.
13 In other words, they sold it to us at full
14 value, and that was full value, across-the-fence
15 value; and then we gave it back to them and paid
16 rent on it.
17 So I think we have, in essence, spoiled the
18 industry. I'll have to see what some other
19 states might be doing, and go back and maybe
20 research the entire history of this thing.
21 If it comes out to where we're competing
22 against ourselves, and there are no other
23 bidders out there, I agree with
24 General Milligan, I do not believe that the
25 people at the 7-Eleven are going to agree with
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1 it.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, if you'll
3 allow me, I want to follow up on that. And you
4 may not know the answer to this question.
5 But you alluded to the fact that one of the
6 people who were originally in negotiations for
7 the property was someone with
8 telecommunications, I don't remember who you
9 said.
10 MR. STASKIEWS: Florida Power Corporation.
11 That's --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Okay.
13 MR. STASKIEWS: -- seems --
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.
15 MR. STASKIEWS: -- to be one of our biggest
16 competitors.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So it goes -- it goes
18 back to what the General said, the original
19 request laid on the table was 20 million dollars
20 for them. And then we were next, as they came
21 down.
22 Do you know what happened to the
23 negotiations with the power company?
24 MR. STASKIEWS: No, I don't. I mean --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Is it still ongoing,
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1 or --
2 MR. STASKIEWS: Not to my knowledge.
3 Because I don't think that was really that
4 desirable a corridor for the Florida Power,
5 because they already had --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: It seems like it --
7 MR. STASKIEWS: -- the time --
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- just got several
9 million dollars more desirable as --
10 I just wonder: Are we negotiating with
11 anybody else today actively, or is it pretty
12 much just us --
13 MR. STASKIEWS: It's the -- the utility
14 companies, Florida Power, Florida Power & Light
15 possibly, and the Department of Transportation
16 are the ones that are generally interested in
17 the full corridors.
18 CSX did advertise this to just -- advertise
19 this property to the public, and they had
20 interest from adjacent land owners for buying
21 that portion in front of their property.
22 However, CSX would prefer to sell the
23 entire corridor, and not have to cash this out
24 over --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I guess the
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1 reason for my question, I'm trying to
2 determine -- and I know y'all have done a lot of
3 work on negotiating this.
4 I'm trying to determine if, in fact, there
5 is the possibility of further negotiations.
6 And, of course, those negotiations, as the
7 General mentioned, driven with other people who
8 may have an active interest in this property as
9 well.
10 That always make the negotiation a little
11 more -- a little sweeter, if you will, if
12 somebody else wants it, too.
13 I'm like the Secretary, I'm trying to
14 figure out -- because I'm second to none in my
15 appreciation of the process and the project.
16 I've been on that trail myself I can't tell you
17 how many times. It's marvelous.
18 I'm trying to figure out: Are we at the
19 point in your opinion, where if we vote against
20 it today, it's gone? Or do you feel as though
21 there's the potential for some additional
22 negotiation?
23 MR. STASKIEWS: Well, I think you people
24 have more clout than I do with them, that if --
25 if you did turn it down, they may listen to
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1 that.
2 But listening -- you know, we've done what
3 we can through our office.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Let me also say that,
5 Governor, you may recall that in the first of
6 the summer I told you that I made a trip over to
7 CSX to talk to their officials about this
8 issue. Because it's bigger than this one
9 acquisition. It's kind of the future of the
10 greenways and trails program.
11 And the discussion really was around,
12 you know, less than fee, or the reservation of
13 certain rights. Their leadership has apparently
14 come to the realization that selling these lands
15 off, as they had been doing, these abandoned
16 trails -- railroad trails over the years, is
17 maybe not a smart move on their behalf because
18 of the potential down the road, maybe not today,
19 but for utilities, for fiber optics.
20 So we were proceeding -- I was hopeful when
21 I left that meeting that we could proceed toward
22 some kind of agreement where we could pay less
23 than value, and they could retain some,
24 you know, utility rights for the future.
25 That's where we tried to negotiate, and you
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1 heard that then they became -- came back with
2 wanting 80 percent, et cetera.
3 The good news on this particular deal is
4 that the Board of Trustees now will be able to
5 lease those out over time when that becomes
6 feasible.
7 So there is some revenue potential for
8 leasing for compatible linear uses over time for
9 the Board of Trustees.
10 And --
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So for a layman then,
12 similar to our trail here in Tallahassee, you
13 could have the trail for biking, for horseback
14 riding, et cetera, et cetera, but are you saying
15 that we then could negotiate with a power
16 company or a telecommunications company --
17 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. We thought --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- to access some of
19 that right-of-way to lay fiber optic line, or
20 whatever it happened to be?
21 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. We thought it was
22 compatible. And my discussion with the CSX
23 officials was along those lines that, you know,
24 you can use a portion of that -- of the width of
25 that, and to lay and to bury certain types of,
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1 you know, cables, pipes, et cetera.
2 That's what CSX a long time -- that's what
3 the railroads around the country are --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, it --
5 MS. WETHERELL: -- now beginning to see,
6 that --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- it seems to me that we
8 are going to be looking for corridors, we
9 already are for laying cable --
10 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- laying of certain
12 utilities. We know that that's terribly
13 expensive again for them to go -- and to have
14 something -- if it does not interrupt the
15 horseback riding, the bicycling, the other
16 things, you lay that fiber down there, you know,
17 we see a lot of good trails now --
18 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that -- or some that
20 are along right-of-way where there other uses
21 are existing, that that can make sense.
22 I would say, I don't take a lot of comfort,
23 Ginger, in the fact that we're going to lease it
24 any better than we're doing -- as we purchase
25 things, you know.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's not our business.
3 We are -- we're not those kind of negotiators,
4 I think.
5 The idea of taking less than fee seems to
6 me to make some sense, not if it's giving them
7 right to billboards and, you know, do anything
8 above, or -- that wouldn't allow it to be a
9 scenic trail.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: But if it's things that
12 are going underground, that are not going to be
13 there, they're not going to be obtrusive,
14 you know, those kind of things would make sense.
15 I really -- I think for myself, and I think
16 I'm speaking for the group here, we don't want
17 to do something that's going to keep us from not
18 having this trail. We think it's very important
19 that we have now.
20 At the same time, I guess I'd have to say,
21 this is the first time it's come to my attention
22 like this, that we're using this kind of method
23 to make appropriations.
24 And knowing that literally we are going to
25 be facing this, and a lot of times in the
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1 future, I don't know that I could say I'm
2 prepared to have to vote on this right now,
3 because, you know, that would be very, very
4 tough to do.
5 I'm just wondering if we shouldn't workshop
6 this, or look at this a little bit, or at least
7 try to understand it better from my part. I --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could I ask --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- a quick
11 question?
12 I heard someone comment that
13 Seminole County, I guess, had 4 million dollars
14 on the table at one time to purchase this piece
15 of property.
16 What has happened to that
17 4 million dollars?
18 MR. STASKIEWS: I think they've expended
19 that in their Environmental Lands Program.
20 There may be something left there, but I'm
21 not -- I'm not certain.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Were they looking to
23 purchase the property for recreational purposes
24 as well?
25 MR. STASKIEWS: Yes. That was going to be
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1 a joint agreement with us to acquire that at
2 that time when they made that offer.
3 MR. AYER: They would manage it.
4 MR. STASKIEWS: And they still would intend
5 to manage this entire --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: But the bottom line,
7 according to the General's question, is that the
8 money, to your knowledge, does no -- doesn't
9 exist --
10 MR. STASKIEWS: Right. And that was using
11 our money also in there, too. So they were
12 going to -- were negotiating on our behalf.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. But they had
14 4 million dollars that they were ready to put
15 on --
16 MR. STASKIEWS: That they had --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the table.
18 MR. STASKIEWS: -- they had offered on
19 that.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But they have
21 expended it.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I'll have to say, I
23 am impressed with what we heard today about what
24 Seminole County has been doing. And it sounds
25 like they're not just saying, you do it all for
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1 us.
2 If they're talking about even extending a
3 transportation tax or a sales tax, that's pretty
4 major, you know. So I'd say they're being
5 partners with us.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, and just to
7 follow up on that, Governor, Seminole -- some of
8 the Commission has been in contact with the
9 office.
10 And how much -- I mean, they've got a
11 dedicated amount of money that they do plan to
12 put towards this trail as far as the actual
13 development --
14 MR. STASKIEWS: Design and development of
15 it.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Right.
17 How much is that going to ultimately
18 cost --
19 MR. STASKIEWS: That is --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- them?
21 MR. STASKIEWS: -- something that they
22 would generally get from the Department of
23 Transportation under the ISTEA grant program.
24 As far as their own money, I'm -- I'm not
25 aware of how much that would be. But the --
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1 the -- generally for these type projects, the
2 design and development funding comes from
3 the Department of Transportation.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: What would your
5 estimate be for the development of this
6 project?
7 I know Pinellas was unbelievable. I mean,
8 a lot of money.
9 MR. STASKIEWS: I couldn't even comment on
10 that.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
12 MR. AYER: Jax Baldwin Trail come out of
13 the city of Jacksonville, toward Baldwin, so the
14 development's going to be about
15 3.2 million dollars. And the City of
16 Jacksonville will manage that particular line.
17 And that's another example of, you know, us
18 buying it, soliciting a City to manage it, and
19 to develop it, which is the kind of business we
20 don't need to be in, other than the acquisition
21 portion of it.
22 We're encouraged in our -- in what we've
23 been doing with greenways and trails, that the
24 local cities and counties are participating a
25 lot more than what they used to, because they're
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1 seeing the obvious benefit of the economic --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Right.
3 MR. AYER: -- impact to the area.
4 McDonald's that you speak of in
5 Pinellas County changed its front entrance from
6 the other side to the front entrance toward the
7 trail it generated so much business.
8 And --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pretty good.
10 MR. AYER: -- you know, this is -- it's
11 just something that's going to have to be
12 addressed, we go -- as we go through the
13 Branford to the -- some of the smaller areas
14 they've been talking about, the rural areas, we
15 run into entirely different situations.
16 And these urban areas are going to be tough
17 for us, they're the only ones left. Any of us
18 could go to, you know, Seminole or the Orlando
19 area now, and they -- you try to buy what you
20 want to buy, and it's just hard to get to.
21 I agree with the General in his 7-Eleven
22 test and the common sense approach toward our
23 citizenry, you know, about how you can sell
24 this.
25 But I'm not sure what's left whenever we
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1 start looking at a statewide map, we've been
2 working so hard on, and we've been directed by
3 the Legislature to try to produce this statewide
4 map, not just for recreation, but for greenway
5 corridors, and ecosystems, too.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further discussion?
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I guess to
8 try to bring this to some closure, again, I'm
9 sure not going to speak for the group, I'm going
10 to speak for me.
11 I'm -- I'm just uncomfortable trying to
12 bring this to a decision today, because I'm not
13 quite sure we're at a drop-dead point on this
14 thing yet where we're going to have to say just
15 yes or no.
16 It appears as though hearing from the
17 Secretary, there may still be one or two
18 possibilities that exist out there in terms of
19 negotiation.
20 And before we just write it off, or before
21 we consider passing it at that price, I, for
22 one, would be interested in giving it another
23 whack, and deferring or withdrawing the issue,
24 and bringing it back again before we have the
25 opportunity to finally say yea or nay.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: This purchase -- for your
2 information, this purchase agreement has a
3 November 8th or 6th --
4 MR. STASKIEWS: November 6th was the --
5 MS. WETHERELL: -- 6th.
6 MR. STASKIEWS: -- closing date in the
7 agreement.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
9 MR. STASKIEWS: But --
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, unfortunately,
11 I think you can see what the agreement would be
12 if we had to vote on it today.
13 MS. WETHERELL: Right. Right. I just
14 wanted you to know that.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Closing dates --
16 MR. STASKIEWS: But they -- with CSX, they
17 generally want to close by the end of the year.
18 I mean, that's --
19 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
20 MR. STASKIEWS: -- the bottom line.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I would think
22 that in terms of negotiation, based on
23 everything you've said -- and by the way,
24 everything you've done. I sure don't want you
25 to make it appear as though that me, or anybody
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1 else, are --
2 MR. STASKIEWS: Sure.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- are going over top
4 of your negotiations. I know you've put a lot
5 of work in on it.
6 But I think based on the importance of the
7 property, and based on some of the things you've
8 heard today, one more shot, in my opinion,
9 before it's finally determined may be worth it.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If -- if we were to
11 say no today, does that end the issue, or could
12 you go back and negotiate?
13 MS. WETHERELL: We will go back and try
14 again.
15 MR. STASKIEWS: Yeah, we --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I think --
17 MR. STASKIEWS: -- certainly will.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I think,
20 personally, that we've got to send the right
21 kind of signal. I think this is too much
22 money.
23 And I, for one, am ready to vote no.
24 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'm voting
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1 no. So you've got two no votes anyway.
2 MR. STASKIEWS: Okay.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a -- is there a
4 motion on the project?
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I will say again,
6 Governor, that I think that we ought to send
7 them a strong signal. And I make a motion
8 that -- I move this, but I am planning on voting
9 no. And let them go back to the drawing board,
10 they can do it.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I would just sort
12 of urge that -- I think we might get ourselves
13 more into a mess if we vote it down. I just
14 think it might be better to pull it now, or to
15 delay it, or something.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll bow to your
17 good judgment.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I -- I thank you
19 for that.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll make a motion
21 that we defer.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded we
24 defer.
25 Is there discussion?
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1 Without objection --
2 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. We will -- we will
3 try once more.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
5 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Thank you.
6 Item 3 is a donation of 6,000 acres from
7 Cytec Brewster Phosphate --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: What do you mean they're
9 going to donate 6,000?
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's the good
11 news. The bad news, it's only 3 feet wide.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Who negotiated that
13 deal?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let's have
15 them negotiate with CSX.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: It's called the tight
17 rope to trails program. It's --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
19 right.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- something new
21 we're trying here.
22 MS. WETHERELL: And this also is
23 conservation easement to Southwest
24 Water Management District. Part of --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, Governor.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, we will take it.
5 MS. WETHERELL: And I'd like to express my
6 gratitude to Cytec for that donation. I've been
7 here eight years, and we don't often see this --
8 this happen.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think we
10 definitely should.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: The Governor and the
13 Cabinet's gratitude as well.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They have a
15 history of doing that. They did it on the
16 Peace River case with us also, Governor. They
17 were very easy -- were nice to deal with on the
18 Peace River. So this is a very good company to
19 deal with.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Maybe CSX
22 will hire some of their managers.
23 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. Thank you.
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1 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
2 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
3 *
4 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
5 12:12 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 104 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 7TH day of OCTOBER, 1996.
17
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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