Cabinet
Affairs |
1
2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
4
Representing:
5
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
6 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
7 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
8 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
9 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
10 MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
11 IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
12
The above agencies came to be heard before
13 THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
14 The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
September 10, 1996, commencing at approximately
15 9:44 a.m.
16
17 Reported by:
18 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
19 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
20 the State of Florida at Large
21
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
25 1-800/934-9090
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
4
BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
7
SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
13
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 10, 1996
3
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 VOTE ON APPOINTMENT FOR ELECTIONS COMMISSION:
4 Approved 7
5 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Barbara L. Jarriel, CFA,
6 Acting Executive Director)
7 1 Approved 8
2 Approved 9
8 3 Approved 9
4 Approved 10
9 5 Approved 10
6 Approved 10
10 7 Approved 11
8 Approved 12
11 9 Approved 21
12 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
13 Director)
14 1 Approved 22
2 Approved 22
15 3 Approved 25
4 Approved 26
16 5 Approved 26
6 Approved 27
17 7 Approved 27
18 INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION:
(Presented by John Douglas,
19 Interim Executive Director)
20 1 Approved 28
2 Approved 28
21 3 Approved 29
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 10, 1996
4
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
4 (Presented by James T. Moore,
Executive Director)
5
1 Approved 30
6 2 Approved 33
3 Approved 33
7 4 Approved 34
8 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
9 Executive Director)
10 1 Approved 39
2 Approved 43
11 3 Approved 44
4 Approved 44
12
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
13 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
Deputy Commissioner)
14
1 Approved 46
15 2 Approved 46
3 Approved 46
16 4 Approved 47
5 Withdrawn 47
17 6 Approved 47
7 Approved 48
18 8 Approved 48
9 Withdrawn 48
19 10 Approved 48
11 Approved 49
20 12 Approved 49
13 Approved 51
21 14 Approved 51
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 10, 1996
5
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
4 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
Secretary)
5
1 Approved 53
6 2 Approved 53
3 A. Approved 53
7 3 B. Deferred 54
4 Approved 54
8 5 Approved 54
6 Approved 55
9
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
10 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
11 Secretary)
12 1 Approved 56
2 Deferred 61
13
MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION:
14 (Presented by Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
15
A Approved 62
16 B Approved 62
C Approved 62
17 D Approved 63
E Withdrawn 63
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 10, 1996
6
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
6
1 Approved 68
7 2 Approved 68
3 Approved 69
8 4 Approved 69
5 Approved 69
9 6 Approved 70
7 Approved 70
10 8 Withdrawn 70
9 Approved 70
11 10 Approved 71
11 Approved 71
12 12 Approved 71
13 Approved 71
13 14 Approved 71
15 Approved 72
14 16 Approved 72
17 Approved 72
15 18 Approved 72
19 Approved 73
16 20 Approved 73
Substitute 21 Approved 73
17 Substitute 22 Deferred 73
23 Approved
18 (Substitute Motion) 96
24 Approved 97
19 25 Approved 97
26 Approved 97
20 27 Approved 123
28 Approved 123
21 29 Withdrawn 124
30 Approved 181
22
23 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 183
24 *
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE ON APPOINTMENT FOR ELECTIONS COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
7
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:19 a.m.)
3 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: We need a -- a motion and
5 a vote to approve Julie McClure's appointment to
6 the Florida Elections Commission.
7 Whose --
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
11 seconded.
12 Without objection, that's approved.
13 Our next Cabinet meeting will be on
14 September 26.
15 (The Vote on the Appointment for the
16 Florida Elections Commission Agenda was
17 concluded.)
18 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
8
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: And now State Board of
2 Administration.
3 MS. JARRIEL: Good morning.
4 The first item we have this morning is an
5 approval of the minutes of the meeting held on
6 July 23rd.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and --
9 TREASURER NELSON: General Milligan.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sir?
11 TREASURER NELSON: We need a second.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm busy.
13 Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and delayed second
15 on the meeting -- the minutes.
16 Without objection, they're approved.
17 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
18 TREASURER NELSON: He's still trying to
19 figure out the Macarena.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I think I did it
21 pretty good.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, you did. That's
23 halfway sort of a drill.
24 MS. JARRIEL: The next item we have is a
25 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
9
1 not to exceed --
2 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
3 room.)
4 MS. JARRIEL: -- six million one hundred
5 and eighty-five thousand dollars Board of
6 Regents, Central Florida Bookstore Revenue
7 Bonds.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MS. JARRIEL: The next item is a
13 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
14 to exceed seven million seven hundred and
15 fifty thousand dollars, Florida
16 Housing Finance Agency Housing Revenue Bonds,
17 Tiffany Club Apartments project.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, that's approved.
22 MS. JARRIEL: The item next is a
23 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
24 to exceed eight million nine hundred and
25 twenty-five thousand Florida Housing Finance
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
10
1 Agency Housing Revenue Bonds, Woodbridge
2 Apartments project.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. JARRIEL: The next item is a
8 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
9 to exceed twenty-two million eight hundred and
10 fifty thousand dollars, Florida Finance Housing
11 Agency bonds, Mariner Club Apartments project.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. JARRIEL: Another recommendation to
17 approve fiscal sufficiency not to exceed
18 sixty-one million five hundred and seventy-five
19 thousand dollar, Florida Housing Finance Agency
20 homeowner mortgage revenue bonds.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Has a motion and a
24 second.
25 Without objection, that's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
11
1 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 7 recommends two
2 amendments to the SBA rules. The first
3 amendment is to facilitate a more automated
4 process, and to recognize the increase in
5 electronic payments.
6 The second item simply incorporates into
7 the SBA rules a legislative change which was
8 made --
9 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
10 room.)
11 MS. JARRIEL: -- this year regarding
12 interest rate waivers, and Board approval
13 thereof.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
15 MS. JARRIEL: We recommend adoption of the
16 rules, please.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 8 we submit for
22 your review and approval, the investment
23 performance and fund balance reports for the
24 month of July.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
12
1 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. JARRIEL: The next item, Item number 9,
5 relates to the Inland Protection Financing
6 Corporation.
7 This corporation was created in
8 Section 376.3075, Florida Statutes. Since the
9 members of the SBA Board are named under this
10 statute as members of the Board of Directors for
11 this corporation, we would like to hold the
12 first organizational meeting of this corporation
13 in conjunction with the SBA meeting.
14 This meeting is necessary to facilitate the
15 validation process, which is critical to the
16 corporation's ability to issue debt to pay the
17 existing reimbursement obligations.
18 The other two members of this corporation
19 named by statute are the Secretary of the
20 Department of Environmental Protection, and the
21 Chairman of the Black Business Investment Board.
22 I'd like to call at this time to the podium
23 the designee by the Secretary of Department of
24 Environmental Protection, Mr. Kirby Green, the
25 Deputy Secretary; and the Chairman of the Black
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
13
1 Business Investment Board, Mr. Keith Carswell.
2 Thank you.
3 And, Governor, we request that you call the
4 organizational meeting of this corporation to
5 order.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. The
7 organizational meeting of the Corporation is
8 called to order.
9 We need a -- a motion for the election of
10 officers. In fact, I think -- can we do this
11 all with one motion and second?
12 MS. JARRIEL: We can certainly do it with
13 one motion. There is presented to the Board
14 members Items A through F, which include in
15 addition to a slate of officers, the articles of
16 incorporation, bylaws, corporate seals,
17 administrative services contract, and direction
18 of the Secretary to set these actions in the
19 minutes of the corporation.
20 We can request a motion to adopt Items A
21 through F presented on the agenda.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
23 TREASURER NELSON: I so move.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: We have a motion.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: May I --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
14
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- raise a couple of
3 questions or comments really, Governor.
4 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Barbara, if you
6 would, you know, this is a particular subject
7 that's going to receive a lot of scrutiny. It's
8 a real challenge to handle the problems that are
9 going to come before this particular
10 corporation.
11 In fact, you can almost say it's a bag of
12 worms that you're going to have to try to sort
13 out.
14 And I am curious as to how you view -- or
15 how really the officers will view -- the
16 decision making process. Who has the decision
17 making authority, and who has accountability for
18 those decisions?
19 Would you care to comment?
20 MS. JARRIEL: Yes. I'll certainly be happy
21 to do that.
22 In fact, General, I had planned to review,
23 subsequent to the coverage of those items, I
24 know that your interest is specifically in the
25 case of our selection of bond counsel and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
15
1 financial advisor.
2 Under normal SBA business, the Board grants
3 to the Executive Director by rule the authority
4 to conduct such matters.
5 I believe the Board was particularly
6 complimentary of the way that we conducted the
7 first organizational meeting of the Florida
8 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund, and we felt that
9 since that pattern had been established, and the
10 objectives of this corporation are very similar
11 in nature, that we could follow suit.
12 The statute specifically provides to the
13 Executive Director of the SBA the ability to
14 direct and supervise the administrative affairs
15 of the corporation; and to control, direct, and
16 supervise the operation.
17 The one critical element in being able to
18 proceed with validation was the retention of
19 bond counsel.
20 In order for us to be in a position to be
21 able to issue the bonds at the point in time at
22 which the Department of Environmental Protection
23 is able to provide to us a final number for the
24 outstanding reimbursement claims, the validation
25 process itself may take several months,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
16
1 depending on court calendars. So we felt that
2 was critical.
3 We established an RFP process, and we
4 assigned five team members. We had
5 representatives from, I believe, the Division of
6 Bond Finance; the Cat Fund; representatives
7 within the SBA for that purpose.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That was done
9 through a competitive process.
10 MS. JARRIEL: It was done through a --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
12 MS. JARRIEL: -- competitive process.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
14 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
15 MS. JARRIEL: In the case of financial
16 advisor, as you know, the SBA typically is an
17 investor, as opposed to an issuer, and we felt
18 it was important to rely upon the experience and
19 the expertise of the Division of Bond Finance.
20 They just had approved by the Governor and
21 the Cabinet in July a list of four firms which
22 were attained through an RFP process to serve as
23 financial advisor for the Division of
24 Bond Finance related issues.
25 When we asked for the opinion of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
17
1 Division of Bond Finance in this issue, they
2 felt that we, too, could utilize that stable of
3 four financial advisors for this purpose as
4 well.
5 And since this is a brand new program, and
6 there's no particular expertise in the market
7 with regard to it, it was the opinion of our
8 director of the Division of Bond Finance that we
9 simply take the firm that rated highest in the
10 original scoring.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We did not choose to
12 do that in the previous corporation in terms of
13 the Cat Fund; is that correct?
14 MS. JARRIEL: Actually, in terms of the
15 Cat Fund, we did the opposite in terms of bond
16 counsel. We had utilized a firm for quite some
17 time --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
19 MS. JARRIEL: -- to establish the tax
20 opinion and so forth, and they had a great deal
21 of expertise in that area.
22 We have a co-advisor who was part of this
23 group of four. But clearly in the case of the
24 Cat Fund, that's going to be a tremendously
25 large issue, multibillion dollars. And it was
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
18
1 clear early on that we would need another
2 financial advisor as well, that might not meet
3 the needs -- that would meet the needs of
4 Bond Finance for normal State bond issuance, but
5 could not meet the needs of the Cabinet.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And it's your --
7 your position that that authority to make that
8 selection, even prior to the forming of this
9 corporation, was within your -- your bounds.
10 MS. JARRIEL: We believe that it is.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And you have no
12 intention to bring in a recommendation -- or did
13 not have any intention to bring a recommendation
14 to the officers, or to the Board of Directors.
15 MS. JARRIEL: Right. We had --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is that correct?
17 MS. JARRIEL: We had not planned to do
18 that. However, having said that, if there is
19 any concern on the part of the corporation, we
20 feel that moving forward with bond counsel is
21 critical, because time is of the essence in
22 being able to proceed with our validation
23 process.
24 You know, however, if other members of the
25 corporation would like to readdress the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
19
1 financial advisor selection, we would be happy
2 to do that.
3 But we certainly felt that because the
4 Division of Bond Finance had just done an RFP
5 and had it approved by the Governor and the
6 Cabinet a couple of months ago, that that stable
7 of four financial advisors would be an
8 acceptable selection of firms to --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I will not dispute
10 that logic, because I think it was probably
11 sound logic.
12 But when you are given certain
13 responsibility in terms of decision making, but
14 others are still held accountable, I think it's
15 an appropriate thing to try to bring to the
16 people that are held accountable,
17 recommendations on some of these more critical
18 decisions, such as, a selection of the bond
19 counsel, such as the selection of the financial
20 advisor.
21 It's -- that is my view. And I would hope
22 that, not necessarily at this meeting, but
23 before too long, that you do come before --
24 before the Board, and advise them as to what
25 your recommendations are.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
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1 And I would like to make that a -- an
2 element of the movement of this process.
3 MS. JARRIEL: Right. We would be --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But accountability
5 will rest with the Board.
6 MS. JARRIEL: Right. We would be happy to
7 do that.
8 If everyone is comfortable with the process
9 itself, as it has been described, we can
10 certainly provide those recommendations this
11 morning to ensure that the corporate officers,
12 and the Board, are comfortable with the
13 selections.
14 And obviously, as I said, it's most
15 important that bond counsel be retained. And if
16 we want to address the financial advisor later,
17 we can certainly do that. And I would be
18 interested in any comment --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I concur -- I
20 concur that bond counsel is critical. You went
21 through an RFP process to come up with a bond
22 counsel, and I think your selection process is
23 certainly adequate.
24 I personally would like to see us always
25 compete matters of this importance, and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
September 10, 1996
21
1 particularly those things that are dealing with
2 a very, very swirly operation that needs to be
3 repaired as a result of this corporation.
4 So I --
5 MS. JARRIEL: I understand.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I would accept
7 the motion that we accept these matters before
8 us, A through F, with the proviso that we do see
9 a recommendation on selection of the bond
10 counsel and selection of the financial advisor.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
12 moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 Thank you, ma'am.
15 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
16 was concluded.)
17 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
22
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
3 the minutes of the July 23rd meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, the minutes are
8 approved.
9 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution
10 authorizing the competitive sale of six million
11 one hundred eighty-five thousand Board of
12 Regents Revenue Bonds for additions and
13 renovations to the University of Central Florida
14 Bookstore.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a resolution
20 authorizing the use of excess proceeds from
21 prior bond issues for the renovation of the
22 Sony Building.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a motion.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I've got a question.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
23
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I know that this
5 particular item has come before the Governor and
6 Cabinet twice before seeking funds for the
7 purchase and renovation of this particular
8 facility.
9 Can you tell us why we're seeing the
10 request for additional funds again?
11 MR. WATKINS: I've got someone here from
12 the Department of Management Services to address
13 any questions regarding the funding of the
14 Sony Building.
15 This is Jim Mayne -- Mayne with the
16 Department of Management Services, who's
17 overseeing the acquisition and renovation of the
18 Sony Building, and can better address that
19 question.
20 MR. MAYNE: Thank you.
21 This is actually the fourth time,
22 Secretary Mortham, that this has come before the
23 Cabinet.
24 The first was the acquisition of the
25 Sony Building last year when we came to you with
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
24
1 the purchase contract that was a million dollars
2 below appraisal, 5.5 million, compared to
3 six-and-a-half million.
4 But this is the third time for a -- a bond
5 issue resolution item. And we're here
6 because -- today because, quite frankly, we had
7 a -- an oversight by our contractor in
8 developing the estimate of what it would take to
9 finish the renovations. And that half
10 million dollars will repair that oversight.
11 And we will not be back a fifth time, I
12 guarantee you.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Just to
14 follow up then, it was a million dollars under
15 the appraised value. If this is the third time
16 for a half million, could you just refresh us on
17 what the other two were?
18 MR. MAYNE: The -- the original issue of
19 15 million dollars covered the five-and-a-half
20 million dollar acquisition, and the -- what we
21 estimated at that time to -- to be the cost of
22 the renovations.
23 The -- the second issue, 2.3 million
24 dollars, it was part of a 5 million dollar
25 issue, had another project involved. Those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
25
1 estimates were flawed, because we were not aware
2 at that time of the impact of the revisions to
3 the building code in south Florida that related
4 to Hurricane Andrew.
5 And there was a recovery in the
6 construction market that made prices not as
7 advantageous as we thought we would -- they
8 would be when we had the original estimate
9 drawn. So we underestimated.
10 But we didn't want to generate surpluses,
11 so we asked for a bond issue that represented
12 what we thought we would spend, 15 million
13 dollars originally, upgraded to 17.3. We're
14 going to finish the job with 17.8.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a resolution
21 authorizing the negotiated sale of three
22 multifamily housing revenue bond issues for and
23 on behalf of the Florida Housing Finance Agency,
24 and the first competitive sale of a single
25 family housing bond issue.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
26
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval, with
2 congratulations.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a motion and a
5 second.
6 And without objection, that's approved.
7 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is a report of
8 award of two hundred twelve million dollar PECO
9 bonds. Bonds -- bids were received for this
10 issue on July 23rd Division of Bond Finance, and
11 the bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a
12 true interest cost of approximately
13 5.72 percent.
14 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move acceptance of the
16 report.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
19 seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. WATKINS: Item number 6 is 150 million
22 Department of Transportation right-of-way
23 bonds. Bids were received at the Division of
24 Bond Finance on August 15, 1996, and the bonds
25 were awarded to the low bidder at a true
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
September 10, 1996
27
1 interest cost of approximately 5.58 percent.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, that's approved.
6 MR. WATKINS: Item number 7 is a report of
7 award of two multifamily housing revenue bond
8 issues negotiated by the Division of
9 Bond Finance on behalf of the Florida Housing
10 Finance Agency.
11 Item (A) was at a true interest cost rate
12 of approximately 6.42 percent; and item (B), at
13 a true interest cost rate of approximately
14 6.1 percent.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, that's approved.
19 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
20 concluded.)
21 *
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
28
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Information Resource
2 Commission.
3 MR. DOUGLAS: Good morning, Governor, and
4 members of the Cabinet.
5 Item 1 is the minutes of the meeting of
6 May 14th.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. DOUGLAS: Item 2 is the Information
12 Resource Commission's quarterly performance
13 report for April 1st through June 30th, 1996.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. DOUGLAS: On Item 3, Governor, we'd
20 like to express our appreciation to the agencies
21 for their cooperation in helping us coordinate
22 the Agency's Strategic Plans for Information
23 Resources Management. And also on the quality
24 of the effort from all of the agencies during
25 this process.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
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1 It has allowed us to bring forward all
2 66 Agency Strategic Plans for Information
3 Resources Management for your approval this
4 morning.
5 We recommend.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very good.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. WATKINS: Thank you, Governor.
13 (The Information Resource Commission Agenda
14 was concluded.)
15 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
30
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 MR. MOORE: Good morning, Governor, and
4 Cabinet members.
5 Item 1 is the minutes of the June 25, '96,
6 Cabinet meeting.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is the Department's
13 fiscal year progress report for fiscal year
14 95-96.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Give us a little
18 description of what you've got here.
19 And it's been approved --
20 MR. MOORE: Well, there's a lot of good
21 news in that progress report, Governor.
22 You recall last time in our conversation, I
23 talked particularly about the success we've had
24 in apprehending violent felony fugitives,
25 working very closely with local
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
31
1 law enforcement.
2 In addition to that, we've continued our
3 efforts on high level drug organizations in this
4 state. We've not abated that focus at all.
5 Over this fiscal year, we've -- we targeted
6 290 investigations -- major organized crime
7 investigations of the drug arena.
8 Those investigations resulted in over
9 300 arrests, and the seizure of over 91 million
10 dollars worth of drugs and property. So we're
11 continuing to focus on that very important
12 issue, and will continue to do so.
13 Additionally, the Department trained over
14 13,000 local law enforcement officer men and
15 women of the State of Florida over this -- over
16 these 12 months. That's something that we're
17 very, very proud of.
18 Additionally, we responded to
19 1,723 requests from local law enforcement for
20 investigative assistance in our 67 counties.
21 That, too, goes in kind with the direction that
22 we're taking in the Agency, that you are
23 supporting, in supporting and helping local
24 law enforcement.
25 And we're continuing to make value added
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
32
1 contributions to those things that the public
2 buy from us. Information when an individual
3 wants to buy a handgun. We're able -- we're
4 down now to a little less than two-and-a-half
5 minutes on response times to those seven,
6 eight thousand gun dealers in the state that
7 really daily come into contact with the public.
8 That's important to us, and we continue to
9 make additions and improvements in that area.
10 And we're continuing to --
11 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
12 MR. MOORE: -- lure that line, if you will,
13 on our average turnaround time on the
14 100,000 pieces of forensic evidence that we'll
15 work through our lab system this time.
16 We're down a little below 30 days right
17 now. And our goal, if you recall, in my
18 contract was to get it below 30 days. And we
19 did that, and it's continuing to drop.
20 So my compliments to the men and women of
21 the organization on all those fronts, Governor.
22 And thank you for the opportunity to share
23 some of those with you.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is -- was there a second
25 on that?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
33
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a second.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. MOORE: Item number 3 is our
5 performance contract for fiscal year 96-97.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
9 MR. MOORE: Item 4 --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I could
13 just make a quick comment. I happened to have a
14 chance to spend some time with FDLE on their
15 performance based budgeting effort.
16 And we'd do well to emulate what they're
17 doing. They have a great program in place.
18 And I congratulate you, Tim. It's well
19 done.
20 MR. MOORE: Thank you, General.
21 Thank you very much. We're getting a lot
22 of good help and support from all of your
23 offices, and we appreciate that, too.
24 Thank you very much.
25 Item 4 is a series of three amendments to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
34
1 the Medical Examiner Commission rules for the
2 State of Florida. I'll just talk about them
3 briefly.
4 The First Amendment requires and
5 establishes a protocol so unidentified remains
6 that are subject for cremation cannot be
7 cremated by a medical examiner before an autopsy
8 has been completed.
9 The second amendment refers to --
10 establishes an auto -- autopsy protocol for
11 sudden infant death syndrome. It just puts in
12 place what the statute requires.
13 And the third amendment gives the medical
14 examiners the discretion and the authority to
15 destroy after ten years tissue samples that they
16 keep and bank over time related to cases.
17 These are noncontroversial rules that are
18 supported by Florida's Medical Examiner
19 Commission.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. MOORE: Governor, if I could, on a
25 final item. In keeping with the legislative
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
35
1 direction that we all pushed to get, and you
2 helped particularly get, the Jimmy Ryce Act
3 passed, that gives the Department of Law
4 Enforcement some good, clear direction in terms
5 of aggressively promoting the identity of sexual
6 predators.
7 We've made a recent addition to our home
8 page on the Internet all under the heading of
9 making sure that we maximize the identification
10 of these sexual predators in the state of
11 Florida.
12 Under the law as of May of 1996, we had 317
13 sexual predators.
14 A lot of these perverts and criminals, they
15 bank on the fact that they have a cloak of
16 anonymity, and that's how they're able to target
17 out their victims and to commit their crimes.
18 You have there on the dais in front of you
19 a smaller version of what that home page looks
20 like.
21 And today, with the help of the media,
22 we're encouraging the public to pay attention to
23 this home address, to inquire to this home
24 page.
25 It's absolutely free of charge, and you can
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
36
1 get complete and total access to, not only who
2 the sexual predators are, but you can get a
3 picture and a likeness that will allow you to
4 identify any that may be in your neighborhood.
5 We're working very closely with
6 Commissioner Brogan and the local school
7 authorities to make sure that we maximize the
8 identity of these individuals, again, in the
9 interest of trying to prevent further
10 victimization of our kids and our law abiding
11 public.
12 Thank you.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that's a good
15 piece, and I certainly like the way you display
16 it. That's pretty -- jump rights up at you in
17 the home page.
18 Yes, ma'am.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I just have one quick
20 question.
21 Tim, what does it mean, registered sexual
22 predator?
23 MR. MOORE: You have to have a written
24 finding, according to both the previous law
25 prior to the last session; and now, as a result
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
37
1 of the last session's activity, you have to have
2 a formal written finding by a Court for offenses
3 occurring after October 1 of 1996.
4 In the interest of maximizing exposure of
5 these criminals, we published the list as it
6 existed in May of 1996 under the existing law
7 then, to both local law enforcement and to the
8 public in printed format.
9 With the support and approval of the
10 Attorney General, we also took that same list of
11 317 predators, and put them out here on the
12 Internet.
13 It is a way that individuals can make a
14 public record request electronically, with no
15 cost, and immediate return on the information
16 that -- requesting.
17 But they do have to be registered, both
18 under the old law as it existed prior to
19 October 1, 1996; and under the new law, as it
20 will exist after October 1, 1996.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
22 MR. MOORE: I might add that we're working
23 very closely with the Attorney General and the
24 State Attorneys across the state to expedite
25 that written finding provision that the law --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
September 10, 1996
38
1 the new law requires.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
3 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor.
4 (The Department of Law Enforcement Agenda
5 was concluded.)
6 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
39
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.
2 MR. FUCHS: Item 1 is a request for
3 approval of the minutes of the July 23rd
4 meeting.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
10 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for
11 permission to submit the Department's 1997-98
12 Legislative Budget Request to the
13 Executive Office of the Governor, and the
14 Legislature.
15 This request focuses on continuation issues
16 which are necessary to the Department's
17 mission. It does represent a 5.1 percent
18 increase in funding, and a net increase of
19 38 positions.
20 And that follows approximately three years
21 of either no increase -- or virtually no
22 increase, and, in fact, a decrease in -- in
23 requests for one of those years.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: How much money are you
25 going to make for us by putting in these new
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
40
1 positions?
2 MR. FUCHS: Well, I don't know that I can
3 project the exact amount, due to the vagaries of
4 the economy, Governor. But over the last, oh,
5 four years, we've had an average of about 7 or
6 8 percent annual increase in revenues, while
7 inflation has run at about the 3 percent level.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, we ought to hold
9 you to about 6 percent then.
10 MR. FUCHS: Well, if you allow me to
11 average it over those 6 years, I'd be willing to
12 make that bargain, sir.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there --
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Quick --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- a motion?
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- question.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Larry, how much in this
19 budget is contract auditing?
20 MR. FUCHS: About 2 million, Secretary.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Two million.
22 Thank you.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I could
24 ask a question --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
41
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on the sun tax,
2 would you -- that's a good deal of your
3 increase, Larry. And I'd just like to know what
4 that's all about.
5 MR. FUCHS: We started -- well, let me back
6 up, General Milligan.
7 About 25 years ago, the Department built a
8 computer system that treats each of our 38 taxes
9 independently. There's no correlation of an
10 individual taxpayer's payments on corporate
11 income tax, intangible tax, sales tax, or
12 anything else. So it's impossible to reconcile
13 overpayments or -- or underpayments.
14 It's also impossible to determine whether
15 there's an effective matchup between what's
16 reported, for instance, on corporate income tax
17 and intangible tax, without doing special
18 operations that are very costly and time
19 consuming.
20 Most of the -- the major states in this
21 country have gone to an integrated tax system
22 where there's a common identifier for an
23 individual taxpayer across any taxes they pay.
24 We started development of that system about
25 four years ago, changing our business processes
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
42
1 first so that when we -- we automated, we would
2 not manumate, we would not simply automate bad
3 processes and become more efficient at doing the
4 wrong things.
5 We are now in the phase of actually
6 building the system. And we paid for our
7 network, and we paid for most of our terminal
8 installations through surplus funds at the end
9 of each year, unexpended funds, without asking
10 for appropriations.
11 We have also built the first two modules of
12 the system, motor fuels tax, and estate tax, out
13 of existing resources.
14 But now it's time to tackle the big ones,
15 corporate income tax being the first one. And
16 we need personnel for about the next four to
17 five years, at least, to build the system, put
18 it in place, and make it fully operational; and
19 then we can phase those -- those positions back
20 out.
21 We made the decision to do it via that
22 method so that our personnel would have
23 ownership, would have knowledge, would be the
24 ones who are actually building the system with
25 consultant expert help, rather than by a turnkey
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
43
1 operation from a vendor, and then be obligated
2 for that -- to that vendor in perpetuity.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So that 7 million is
4 both people and system assets that you're --
5 MR. FUCHS: Yes. And we project an
6 expenditure of about that level over the next
7 five -- for each of the next five years to be --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. So we're just
9 seeing the tip of the iceberg on this particular
10 item.
11 MR. FUCHS: Yes, sir. It has been funded
12 in the last few years at the approximately
13 2 million dollar a year level, and with full
14 concurrence from the IRC, and with appropriate
15 legislative oversight.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. Thank you.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection -- without -- that's
22 approved.
23 MR. FUCHS: Item 3 is a request -- is a
24 request for permission to submit the
25 Department's agency capital improvements program
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
44
1 to the Executive Office of the Governor and the
2 Legislature.
3 And this program is designed to identify
4 the space needs of the Department over the next
5 five years based on projected increases in
6 workload due to the growth in the taxpayer base,
7 and the increases in child support enforcement
8 collections.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. FUCHS: And Item 4 is a request for
16 approval and acceptance of the performance
17 contract of the Executive Director of the
18 Department of Revenue for the next fiscal year.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, that's approved.
23 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
September 10, 1996
45
1 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
2 concluded.)
3 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
46
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Education.
3 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles, members of
4 the State Board of Education, good morning.
5 Item 1, minutes of the meeting held
6 June 13th; June 25th; and July 23rd, 1996.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, quarterly report for
13 the period ending June 30th, 1996.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 DR. BEDFORD: Item 3, the 1996 Report on
19 the Planning and Coordination of the Program
20 Review for Postsecondary Education.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 DR. BEDFORD: Item 4, contract amendments
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
47
1 for Florida's Guaranteed Student Loan Program.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, that's approved.
6 DR. BEDFORD: Item 5, Rule 6A-1.0955,
7 Amendment, we are requesting permission to
8 withdraw.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move that,
10 Governor.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 DR. BEDFORD: Item 6, Rule 6A-4.0021,
15 Amendment, Florida Teacher Certification
16 Examination.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BEDFORD: Item 7, Rule 6A-6.03024,
22 Amendment, Special Programs for Exceptional
23 Students Who Require Physical Therapy.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
48
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 DR. BEDFORD: Item 8, Rule 6A-10.024,
5 Amendment, Articulation Between Universities,
6 Community Colleges, and School Districts.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Item 9, Rule 6A-20.026, we're
12 requesting permission to withdraw.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move that,
14 Governor.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
18 DR. BEDFORD: Item 10, Division of
19 Community College, Rule 6A-14.0716, New Rule,
20 Community College Budgets.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 DR. BEDFORD: Item 11, Chapter 6A-14,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
49
1 Repeal.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 DR. BEDFORD: Item 12, Rule 6H-1.046,
7 New Rule, Florida Community College Distance
8 Learning Consortium.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Question on that one.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Bob, what is -- what is
16 really the relationship between this consortium
17 and the Florida Distance Learning Network?
18 DR. BEDFORD: Denise, do you want to come
19 up and help me?
20 Denise is in the audience, I know.
21 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
22 DR. BEDFORD: It -- Denise Potvin.
23 MS. POTVIN: I'll be happy to answer your
24 question. My name is Denise Potvin. I'm with
25 the Division of Community Colleges.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
50
1 The relationship between the Florida
2 Community College Distance Learning Consortium
3 and the Florida Distance Learning Network would
4 be an opportunity for us just to provide them
5 information, as the consortium provides
6 information to any other board.
7 It's created as an advisory committee under
8 the State Board of Community Colleges to deal
9 with issues that the Board would then move in
10 the form of a policy.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Do they plan to
12 communicate or report its activities to the
13 Distance Learning Network?
14 MS. POTVIN: Yes.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And then will they also
16 be coordinating the activities as far as the
17 courses themselves that will be offered?
18 MS. POTVIN: Through the network?
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
20 MS. POTVIN: In a reporting capacity only.
21 That ownership would rest with the State Board
22 of Community Colleges.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
24 Thank you very much.
25 DR. BEDFORD: Item 13, appointment to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
51
1 the Board of Regents.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 DR. BEDFORD: Item 14, appointment to the
5 Florida Keys Community College --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Wait --
7 DR. BEDFORD: -- District --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- wait a minute.
9 Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 Let's --
12 DR. BEDFORD: I'm sorry.
13 Sorry.
14 Item 14, appointment to the Florida Keys
15 Community College --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 I think we should note that in Item 13,
21 Jim Harding is our first disabled student to
22 serve on the Board of Regents. I was hoping he
23 would get here today so you could all meet him.
24 But I don't know that he is.
25 But I think he's going to be an outstanding
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 10, 1996
52
1 Regent.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And from what I
4 understand, Governor, that handicapping
5 condition has not slowed him down one iota. And
6 everyone tells me he's going to be a great
7 contributing member of the --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: He is. I think he's
9 going to be an outstanding member on the
10 Regents, yes, sir.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
13 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
14 concluded.)
15 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Recommend approval of the
4 minutes of the meetings held July 23rd, 1996.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend the
10 approval of the transfer of general revenue
11 appropriations in the Department of Agriculture
12 and Consumer Services.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 DR. BRADLEY: Item 3 A., recommend the
18 approval of the transfer of general revenue
19 appropriations under Item A in the Department of
20 Education.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 DR. BRADLEY: Item 3 B., we're recommending
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1 deferral.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move that.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's deferred.
6 DR. BRADLEY: Item 4, recommend the
7 authorization to establish four positions in
8 excess of the number by the Legislature in
9 accordance with Chapter 216.262(1)(a),
10 Florida Statutes, in the Executive Office of the
11 Governor.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 DR. BRADLEY: Item 5, recommend the
17 approval of the transfer of general revenue
18 appropriations in the Department of Health and
19 Rehabilitative Services.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Move and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 6, recommend the
25 approval of transfer of general revenue
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1 appropriations in the Department of
2 Juvenile Justice.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, that's approved.
7 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
8 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
56
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of July 23rd, 1996 --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 DR. BRADLEY: -- Commission meeting.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request
11 withdrawal of this matter.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sorry,
14 Governor. I got --
15 TREASURER NELSON: I want to hear some
16 discussion on this, Governor.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't know
19 why they're withdrawing it.
20 DR. BRADLEY: If you'd allow me, let me
21 introduce Teresa Tinker, the Policy Coordinator
22 in the Governor's Growth Management Unit in the
23 Office of Planning and Budgeting.
24 MS. TINKER: The staff's reco-- staff's
25 recommendation has been changed to recommending
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1 that this item be withdrawn from the agenda.
2 The reason for that is because the
3 Department of Community Affairs, the petitioner
4 in this proceeding, filed a Notice of Voluntary
5 Dismissal yesterday. We received that yesterday
6 morning.
7 So we are recommending that, consistent
8 with that Notice of Voluntary Dismissal, we
9 withdraw it, and then the Secretary of the
10 Commission would actually enter a final order
11 closing the file.
12 There would be no action taken on the
13 merits of the proceeding.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Go ahead.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I -- is
16 there anybody here from the -- from DCA? I
17 mean, I want to find out why -- I mean, has the
18 issue been resolved with Key West, or were they
19 just concerned about the one day late --
20 MS. TINKER: No, sir --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and --
22 MS. TINKER: -- the issue has not been
23 resolved.
24 Dave Jordan, the Deputy General Counsel for
25 the Department of Community Affairs is here, and
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September 10, 1996
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1 he can discuss further why the Department made
2 the decision to file the voluntary dismissal.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's hear from him.
4 MR. JORDAN: Good morning. Dave Jordan
5 with the Department.
6 The reason we decided to file a Notice of
7 Voluntary Dismissal is we felt that the -- from
8 discussions with the Cabinet Aides, we felt that
9 we did not have as strong a case as we had
10 hoped, based on our motion -- our response to
11 the motion to dismiss, we felt we would like to
12 pursue the issues in other forums that didn't
13 have this procedural defect.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
15 go ahead.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Well, if I may just
17 pursue --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
19 TREASURER NELSON: -- a couple of questions
20 here.
21 Now, is it -- is it a correct understanding
22 that if this issue is withdrawn today, that this
23 potentially illegal development order would be
24 allowed to stand; is that correct?
25 MR. JORDAN: The development order would be
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September 10, 1996
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1 allowed to stand, yes.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Well, before we vote
3 to -- on the issue of withdrawal, I'd like to
4 know if there are other cases -- if there's
5 precedent where late filing dates -- and as I
6 understand it, that's the issue here, that the
7 Department was one day late in filing an
8 objection.
9 Is there precedent that late filing dates
10 were excused in the past?
11 MR. JORDAN: There are none involving this
12 particular statute. However, in the last four
13 or five years, the appellate courts have
14 instructed agencies who issued final orders
15 dismissing petitions for being late to take
16 another look to see whether there was excusable
17 neglect.
18 That has been applied in other statutes,
19 but not -- it has not been raised before, to my
20 knowledge, involving 380.07.
21 TREASURER NELSON: If they've been applied
22 in the past to question whether or not there was
23 excusable neglect in a late filing by one day,
24 is there any reason that we should not have a
25 similar line of inquiry here today?
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September 10, 1996
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1 MR. JORDAN: None that I know of. All I
2 can say is that we thought it might be better to
3 pursue it in other forums. But if you would --
4 certainly the Department has no objection to
5 pursuing it further, if that is the will of the
6 Commission.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Well, Governor, that's
8 going to be my request, that we defer this
9 matter so that we can determine if there was a
10 reason of excusable neglect.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If I
12 understand it correctly, Governor, I believe
13 there were -- we'd be sending it to DOAH, and
14 the hearing officer would determine whether or
15 not there was excusable neglect.
16 And, in fact, if the hearing officer
17 determines that there was not, and that DCA
18 really botched it, you're back on the street.
19 But if, in fact, there was excusable
20 neglect, and from time to time, dates are not
21 met by either side. I think we're making a
22 very, very bad precedent here, not only for the
23 State, but also for the private person who is
24 affected by what we're doing here.
25 And I just as soon have it go up to DOAH,
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1 and let the hearing officer determine it.
2 MS. TINKER: Could -- could I just add
3 something for you to consider here?
4 The property owners', the MacKays, attorney
5 chose not to come to the Cabinet meeting today
6 because he thought that the item would be
7 withdrawn based on the voluntary dismissal.
8 I'd like to suggest that you might want to
9 consider -- if you don't want to withdraw it
10 today, defer it to the next Cabinet meeting to
11 give the MacKays an opportunity to represent
12 their side of the issue to you as well before
13 you --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: That sounds --
15 MS. TINKER: -- it to DOAH.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- reasonable to me, and
17 something we should do.
18 Is there a motion to defer?
19 TREASURER NELSON: I move.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
22 seconded.
23 Without objection, it's deferred.
24 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
25 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
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MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
September 10, 1996
62
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Marine Fisheries
2 Commission.
3 DR. NELSON: Good morning.
4 Item A on the agenda is our annual research
5 recommendations to the Department.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move -- move --
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second --
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- acceptance.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 DR. NELSON: Item B consists of a number of
13 obsolete, redundant, and unneeded rules that are
14 being deleted.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 DR. NELSON: Item C reinstates trap and
20 fishery vessels marking requirements that have
21 previously been part of the Department's rules.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 DR. NELSON: Item D repeals an antiquated
2 and obsolete Bay, Okaloosa, and
3 Washington County local law.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, that's approved.
8 DR. NELSON: Item D, the amendments to the
9 mullet management plan. We had a -- a filing in
10 this case, and we would, therefore, ask
11 permission to withdraw this until the outcome of
12 a DOAH hearing.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move that,
14 Governor.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 DR. NELSON: There was -- Senator Crist was
20 here, and did ask me to ask if he could have a
21 moment though.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Before we get
23 to that. Tell us a little something -- I'm
24 reading some good stories now about scalloping
25 going on in -- the increase of that at Cedar Key
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September 10, 1996
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1 and other places. Tell me what you can about
2 that.
3 DR. NELSON: We have had in the northern
4 part of what was the historic scallop range a
5 very good season this year. And I -- we haven't
6 received an assessment from the Department.
7 Once the season's over, we will get an updated
8 assessment probably in December or February,
9 which we'll take a look for next year.
10 But from --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: And most of those are
12 seeded?
13 DR. NELSON: No, sir. Most of those are --
14 those are wild scallops. Now, we still have
15 very few, if any, wild scallops from
16 Charlotte Harbor up to the Crystal River area,
17 north of there where they still haven't
18 returned.
19 But once we get to the Suwannee, head
20 around north through Gulf County, we've had very
21 good natural settlement and --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: So those are the small
23 bay scallops that --
24 DR. NELSON: Those are small bay scallops.
25 So there are upper -- there's ongoing work in
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1 Tampa Bay to try to re-seed scallops and restore
2 them in those areas where they no longer exist.
3 Those --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are we doing some of that
5 in Apalachicola, in the bay there?
6 DR. NELSON: Not to my knowledge, sir.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Thank you,
8 sir.
9 Senator Crist?
10 SENATOR CRIST: Thank you, Governor,
11 members of the Cabinet.
12 My name's Charlie Crist. I'm a State
13 Senator from Tampa Bay. It's good to be with
14 you in Tallahassee today in the off-season, as
15 it were.
16 The issue I wanted to talk about is what
17 Russ had just mentioned about the -- the rule
18 that they had put before the Cabinet dealing
19 with tarp nets as they're called. I -- Russ has
20 taken some pictures up for you to look at to see
21 what we're referring to.
22 There are some news reports that indicate
23 that some of these nets can be as large -- or
24 have a circumference of almost 9 acres of
25 water.
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1 Clearly, it seems to me, this is a
2 subversion of the net ban that was passed in
3 1994 where they were to be limited to only
4 500 square feet.
5 I think that the rule that was put before
6 you by the Marine Fisheries Commission would
7 take care of that, and put the intent of the net
8 ban back into line so that we could protect our
9 precious natural resources.
10 So I realize that Mr. -- Dr. Nelson,
11 rather, has gone ahead and requested that it be
12 withdrawn from the agenda today. If in the
13 event that you don't take his recommendation,
14 and you vote on it, obviously, I would encourage
15 your positive support.
16 And it seems also clear to me that the
17 people of Florida wanted to limit the size of
18 the nets, and -- no matter what they're made out
19 of, whether it's a tarp, or whether it's the net
20 material itself, or whatever it might be.
21 I'm going to introduce a bill today, later
22 this afternoon, that would do just that, say
23 that no matter what the material is, they cannot
24 be any larger than 500 square feet, and just
25 would encourage your positive support of
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1 protecting our natural resources.
2 Thank you very much for your time.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
4 SENATOR CRIST: Thank you, Governor.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
6 (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was
7 concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees of the Internal
2 Improvement Fund.
3 MR. GREEN: Governor, Secretary Wetherell
4 is in Alabama today representing Florida on the
5 Apalachicola, Chattahoochee, Flint River System
6 Executive Coordinating Council.
7 They're in the final negotiations of the
8 tri-state compact for management of the ACF
9 system, which affects the way we get water to
10 the Apalachicola Bay and the health of the bay,
11 so it was very important that she was there.
12 She apologizes for not being here today.
13 First item is the minutes of the June 13th,
14 June 25th, and July 9th Cabinet meeting.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 2, ten-year sovereignty
20 submerged land live rock aquaculture lease.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. GREEN: Item 3, ten-year sovereignty
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1 submerged land live aquaculture lease.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 MR. GREEN: Item 4 is ten-year --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Wait. Is there -- is
5 there a second?
6 MR. GREEN: I'm sorry.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 4 is a ten-year
12 sovereignty submerged land aquaculture lease.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. GREEN: Item 5 is a purchase agreement
18 and release of funds.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 6, approval of a sublease
24 agreement between the Board of Regents and the
25 Florida Conference Center Associates.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 MR. GREEN: Item 7 is an exchange
6 agreement.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 8, withdraw.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move withdrawal.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Item 8 is withdrawn without objection.
16 MR. GREEN: Item 9, option agreement to
17 acquire 5 acres.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. GREEN: Item 10, a purchase agreement.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 11, a purchase agreement.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. GREEN: Item 12, a purchase agreement.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 13 is a purchase
13 agreement.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 14 is three separate
20 purchase agreements and requests for waiver of
21 survey.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MR. GREEN: Item 15, an option agreement
2 and request a survey waiver.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. GREEN: Item 16, option agreement.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 17, a purchase agreement.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 18, a purchase agreement.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 19, a quitclaim deed and
24 release of mineral and petroleum interests.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. GREEN: Item 20, an option agreement.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 21 is approval
10 of 37 purchase agreements, delegation of
11 authority to the Department to purchase
12 assignments from the Nature Conservancy, and
13 waiver of survey.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item number 22,
19 deferral.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's deferred.
24 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 23, issuance of
25 two quitclaim deeds for 50.13 acres, and release
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1 of mineral interests.
2 And we have two speakers, Governor.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
4 MR. GREEN: Dexter Lehtinen.
5 MR. LEHTINEN: Thank you.
6 Governor and Trustees, I will be brief and
7 not address those parts of the settlement that
8 do not directly concern the Board of Trustees.
9 It's been in litigation for more than five years
10 regarding the taking of Indian land and the
11 construction of I-75.
12 We appreciate FDOT's willingness to settle
13 the case. It involved some money changing
14 microwave relay towers and others.
15 The concern to the Trustees is the land
16 exchange. The land that the United States
17 Government is giving up, 200 acres of soil,
18 of course, was developed and became part of
19 Interstate 75. You'll just get a good deed for
20 that.
21 What the Tribe will receive -- and this
22 really addresses the Substitute Item 23, the
23 question of development.
24 And Chairman Cypress is here with the
25 Miccosukee Tribe as well; and so are the Florida
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1 Department of Transportation legal counsel,
2 Thornton Williams.
3 What the Tribe will receive is 50 acres,
4 but only 15 of it would have any -- is the land
5 between Old Tamiami Trail and New Tamiami
6 Trail. Twenty-some acres is already a paved
7 road; 3 acres is at the intersection of Krome
8 and Tamiami where there's a gas station,
9 submerged gas tanks, and everything.
10 The only question would be those parcels
11 between Old and New Tamiami. And I hasten to
12 point out in opposition to Substitute Item 23,
13 which would restrict development, is that the
14 State and the Federal governments already did
15 what damage can be done to that land, has
16 already been done.
17 Old Tamiami is on the south, New Tamiami
18 went in on the north, you can throw a baseball
19 between Old and New.
20 If -- within walking and visual distance is
21 a restaurant to the east; a restaurant and a
22 motel off of the land, but within visual to the
23 west; microwave relay tower; eventually a church
24 owned by a downtown Miami congregation. This is
25 not a functioning wetland.
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1 There's no water passage through these
2 parcels because of the fixed Old and New
3 Tamiami Trial. They are scavenger, essentially
4 destroyed.
5 In fact, one of the parcels is right now
6 the paved parking lot for the commercial Indian
7 village. Another parcel has the Tiger camp on
8 it. Mr. Tiger and Miccosukee Indians have lived
9 in permanent structures there for more than
10 50 years, longer than I've been a Florida
11 resident, and I was born in Florida.
12 In a sense, they have always believed that
13 they do have title. And while not getting into
14 the details, they, in fact, do have aboriginal
15 title recognized by United States courts, and
16 the State of Florida.
17 The title that you will be giving over is
18 the overlay European title, our system of title,
19 the non-Indian system of title.
20 That's why the parking lot is there, and
21 the Indians haven't encroached or behaved
22 illegally by having this fully paved parking lot
23 because of their aboriginal rights without the
24 objection of the State previously.
25 The same with the Tommy Tiger camp. Those
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1 parcels will become owned by the Secretary of
2 Interior, held in trust for the Miccosukees, but
3 the use of those parcels won't change at all.
4 Two parcels to the east and west of the
5 parking lot, it is expected that the parking lot
6 might be expanded. But there's no significant
7 problem because those wetlands don't -- they're
8 not really -- much of it isn't wetlands because
9 of the dredge and fill that took place in
10 building those roads. There's no flow. So we
11 don't think there's any potential for harm.
12 And I would add that the Miccosukees have
13 been there for generations, for hundreds of
14 years. This is their homeland area.
15 As I say, one parcel that will come to the
16 ownership of the Secretary of Interior is the
17 Tiger camp. They've lived there longer than
18 I've been there.
19 This is not a new area or an expansion. It
20 touches Old and New Tamiami where they have
21 historically lived for many, many years, and
22 where they have a right to be in perpetuity on
23 the park side of it, by act of Congress, with
24 the concurrence of the State of Florida.
25 As well, if there is any action when --
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1 question of development activity, they do comply
2 fully with the Federal Clean Water Act, with all
3 dredge and fill permits, 404(b), et cetera. And
4 they're not difficult to get there, because it's
5 a destroyed and non-functioning wetland.
6 However, in any area that is of
7 significance, they conform to the mitigation
8 ratios 2 to 1, and all this other type of
9 activity.
10 So we would urge you to accept the original
11 item, and -- in substitution for Substitute
12 Item 23, if I have those words correct -- reject
13 Substitute Item 23, take the original. And like
14 the land that you're receiving on which you
15 built an interstate highway, it's not
16 restricted. The Miccosukees would receive that
17 not restricted, the Secretary of Interior
18 technically would receive it.
19 And it would mostly be just what it is
20 right now, the Miccosukees have always thought
21 it was theirs, and it would just become legally
22 theirs as well.
23 Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Counsel, I think part of
25 the concern that's been raised here is if on
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1 this -- and you know much more about the status
2 of the land than I do -- but was a concern that
3 you could have housing and septic tanks, and
4 that, in turn, would be in a wetlands area is
5 something that we try to push very hard to keep
6 from happening, you know.
7 And so I think that was one of the reasons
8 for wanting to see some kind of deed
9 restrictions on it.
10 MR. LEHTINEN: Well, Governor, I certainly
11 concur. And just -- not to personalize it, but
12 I have always been a believer in getting rid of
13 septic tanks. I'm in litigation -- or would
14 be --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
16 MR. LEHTINEN: -- today, I have an
17 associate doing it -- in trying to block the
18 widening of U.S. 1 to the Keys because of the
19 lack of adequate solid waste treatment in the
20 Keys, and so forth, an issue that you folks know
21 about a lot, because you've had the
22 Comprehensive Plan for Monroe County.
23 However, I hasten to point out that the
24 50 acres is -- twenty-some of that is a road.
25 So you're down to twenty-some. The rest -- 3,
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1 4 is outside of the -- this Everglades issue.
2 So you're down to 15.
3 Four of those are already paved, and about
4 4 of them are already the Tommy Tiger camp. So
5 you're down to, like, 7 or 8. And the most
6 likely use is a parking lot, properly storm
7 water treatment where there's an existing
8 parking lot, or no use at all.
9 To the extent that it might receive
10 housing, the Tribe is fully committed -- and has
11 never fought all of the scientific advice that
12 its given.
13 If it is told -- the Indian Health
14 Services, the group that's responsible for
15 enforcing Federal laws in aiding Indian tribes
16 in its health issues -- the Indian Health
17 Service believes it, or anyone else believes it,
18 that a septic tank would not be appropriate,
19 they would use another system.
20 What -- I'll conclude with this: What has
21 happened though, as a person who came to the
22 Tribe believing that septic tanks were no good,
23 and that a more centralized solid waste
24 treatment was appropriate, I have found in all
25 the litigation in connection with the Tribe that
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1 actually no one -- Indian Health Service, or the
2 Everglades National Park experts, or the Florida
3 International University experts -- actually no
4 one believes that in this particular case, the
5 very small number of Indians that are there
6 would do the Everglades any good at all if they
7 were on a central system.
8 This is just a peculiarity that the small
9 amounts involved and the lack of concentration
10 has -- has led all of the experts -- and
11 Chairman Cypress would concur -- we've had the
12 experts in the room -- it's never been an issue,
13 but we've always said, when do we put in a solid
14 waste treatment.
15 And the answer has been, well, in your
16 particular case, you know, we'll tell you, if
17 ever. But the few houses involved haven't
18 warranted it.
19 And when it does, I -- and when the
20 Corps of Engineers believes it, or any other
21 appropriate agency believes it, the Indians will
22 be the first to do it, because they are
23 convinced that any discharges to the south in
24 the Everglades should be prohibited, and they
25 will not be responsible for creating any.
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1 They'll do everything necessary to protect the
2 areas to the south.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
4 Is there another speaker.
5 MR. GREEN: One more speaker.
6 Manley Fuller.
7 MR. FULLER: Manley Fuller representing the
8 Florida Wildlife Federation.
9 We think it is appropriate for the State of
10 Florida to condition exchanges of wetlands. We
11 think it's -- as a matter of -- as a matter of
12 general policy, we support this concept being
13 applied to State-owned wetlands.
14 The -- we recognize that this -- these
15 properties are also -- lie within the
16 Everglades.
17 We have no concern about the exchange of
18 the properties that Dexter referred to that
19 had -- that are already a road or are a parking
20 lot or are already filled.
21 But the -- the remaining acreage can serve
22 additional functions, such as storm water
23 management, and we think that -- we think that
24 it's appropriate to, whenever possible, for the
25 State to guarantee that Everglades wetlands will
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1 not be -- State-owned Everglades wetlands are
2 not -- are not subject to development.
3 So we -- we understand that the Tribe --
4 the Tribe's acceptance of the -- of the
5 settlement is based on them receiving these
6 properties essentially free and clear of any
7 encumbrance.
8 We would suggest that the item might be
9 modified to provide additional compensation to
10 the Tribe to take -- to take into consideration
11 any diminution of value that might be associated
12 with the placement of these conditions.
13 So that's -- that's our recommendation is
14 that they -- that the Tri-- that you all
15 maintain the restrictions on the parcels that
16 have not been filled, and that you provide
17 compensation to the Tribe for that change in
18 value placed on that -- those restrictions.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
21 MR. GREEN: Governor, there's one more
22 speaker, I'm sorry. Eva Armstrong,
23 Florida Audubon.
24 MS. ARMSTRONG: I'll be brief.
25 Good morning. Eva Armstrong representing
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1 Florida Audubon.
2 We concur with Manley's suggestion. The
3 Everglades clearly has been a big issue for our
4 organization, and we get accused a lot of only
5 looking at one industry for what they've done
6 down there, and that's not true.
7 The Miccosukee Indians have been allies of
8 ours in lawsuits. We -- we want to help them
9 develop the community they want down there, and
10 we want to see it done in a way that furthers
11 everybody's interests in protecting -- and at
12 least improving what we've got in the
13 Everglades.
14 We happen to think that Manley's suggestion
15 about changing the compensation to adjust for
16 maintaining those wetlands, whatever value they
17 are, is a good one. And would suggest that
18 you'd stick with the restrictions on the
19 wetlands.
20 Thanks.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
22 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a question?
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Uh-hum.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. Lehtinen, let me ask
25 a couple of questions here.
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1 What -- you've subtracted out what is being
2 used by the parking lot and the Tiger camp and
3 so forth, and you come up with about 8 acres
4 remaining.
5 What do you envision would be the use of
6 those 8 acres?
7 MR. LEHTINEN: The most likely use,
8 Treasurer Nelson, is that -- either no use, or
9 an expansion of the parking lot. Because if you
10 look on an aerial, you will see the large
11 commercial Indian village is south and touches
12 Old Tamiami Trail.
13 The parking lot in front of it, which was
14 there, by the way, before the State built New
15 Tamiami Trail -- or the Feds, whoever built
16 that -- and Tommy Tiger, by the way, was there
17 before the State built New Tamiami Trail. They
18 would have been happy had you not built that new
19 road, but they couldn't stop that at the time.
20 So that parking lot that has been there --
21 the most likely use is simply to expand that
22 parking lot to the east and to the west.
23 And with -- you know, with proper
24 storm water treatment systems and so forth.
25 It is not likely that there will be housing
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1 there. I have accepted the connotation -- or
2 the idea that there could be housing, because
3 the deeds are not restricted, there legally
4 could be housing.
5 But it is highly unlikely that Indians want
6 to live next to all of that parking -- in the
7 parking lot. They don't -- they want to live
8 down Old Tamiami Trail, as they do.
9 And none of this area, I might point out,
10 in addition -- all of this area we're talking
11 about between Old and New, on the south side of
12 Old already is developed. It has houses, it has
13 filled in, or it's the Indian village.
14 So the quick answer, Mr. Nelson, is most
15 likely it's parking; if not parking, it is
16 nothing. The least likely is any Indians want
17 the housing with the associated traffic. Nobody
18 really wants to live that close to New
19 Tamiami Trail. And these parcels are between
20 Old and New.
21 And I wouldn't want to live with that
22 speeding traffic on New Tamiami. So I
23 personally don't think, nor does the Tribe, in
24 my discussions with them, think that anybody's
25 going to want to build housing there. But it'd
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1 be legally allowed.
2 TREASURER NELSON: In view of your
3 response, would there be any objection to these
4 stipulations that would provide for the
5 protection of those 8 acres from that kind of
6 development in the future?
7 MR. LEHTINEN: Well, the difficulty,
8 Mr. Nelson, is that Indian tribes have for years
9 been induced on land that was once theirs, for
10 which they still have aboriginal title.
11 And for reasons that do not seem when this
12 wetland was already destroyed by government
13 action -- it's the very government that's
14 deeding it over that has done in these wetlands
15 to be just scavenger, Florida holly junk land.
16 I mean, that's the state, let's --
17 you know, as Joan Rivers'd say, can we talk.
18 I mean, it's the State that did this in.
19 Now to ask the Indians that -- where
20 there's a motel, two restaurants, an Indian
21 village, parking lots; and, by the way,
22 Everglades National Park built housing and
23 buildings there, and put some loop -- Snake --
24 I'm sorry -- Shark Valley Road into the park
25 right at that area, dredge and fill, and
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1 everything else, and pavement -- to ask the
2 Indians to accept a restriction on a matter that
3 seems to -- to put them in a second-class status
4 is what the Tribe would object to.
5 So we would respectfully object to that
6 because the Tribe would see no reason to have
7 its status -- when there's 2 million acres of
8 park, Mr. Nelson, that is protected only by the
9 Federal Clean Water Act. And this --
10 TREASURER NELSON: Well --
11 MR. LEHTINEN: -- is 8 more acres touching
12 it --
13 TREASURER NELSON: I understand. And you
14 make a compelling argument, I certainly
15 acknowledge that. And it's well stated, and
16 you're most eloquent.
17 Looking down the road, let's say what if,
18 that the Miccosukee Tribe wanted to put -- if
19 they ever got approval for casino gambling,
20 for example, to put on this 15 acres out there,
21 casino gambling; or what's legal now, bingo.
22 They wanted to put bingo.
23 That is certainly not a use that is
24 compatible with what we think of the rest of the
25 Everglades.
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1 Now, I know the practical matter, what
2 you're going to say, you're going to put the
3 bingo hall over there where the population is.
4 But I'm -- I'm posing a hypothetical, and,
5 therefore, raising the question: Do we need any
6 restrictions on the deed to take care of that
7 for the possible future harm?
8 MR. LEHTINEN: Well, Mr. Nelson, you first
9 are correct that -- you said I would say it, so
10 I'll accommodate you -- compliment you by saying
11 it: Yes, they would put gaming facilities east
12 and west where the population is.
13 Secondly, they would not put them next to
14 their own housing.
15 Third, that gaming -- they cannot put
16 gaming there. Under the current legal
17 parameters of Indian gaming, not likely to
18 change -- I didn't say current because it's
19 going to get changed tomorrow. I mean, it's
20 just not going to be changed.
21 These post-1988 acquired lands cannot be
22 gambled on, including bingo. Not -- we're not
23 now talking just about Class III casinos, and
24 all that kind of stuff that you'll talk about
25 with cruise ships in a minute.
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1 Even bingo cannot go on that newly acquired
2 land.
3 So I would say -- commend your attention,
4 there's a certain point at which the legal
5 protections are sufficient enough, and to then
6 impose more on the Indians appears to give them
7 a second-class status.
8 The -- they can't game there, they don't
9 intend to game there. But historically, Indians
10 have found that what they accepted and thought
11 was okay, 50 years later, comes back to haunt
12 them, because you just can't anticipate what
13 those restrictions mean.
14 Plus the Miccosukee Tribe was pushed into
15 the Everglades by a society that didn't think
16 they were worth anything. They have -- the
17 Everglades, nor the Indians, for that matter.
18 The -- they have fought to protect those
19 areas and those lands, and -- as Federal
20 reservation land, it would be protected by Clean
21 Water Act and Secretary of Interior ownership.
22 So the Tribe would feel discriminated
23 against, and as second-class citizens if even
24 more requirements were to be there, other than
25 the existing ones under law that appear to be
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1 sufficient.
2 Thank you.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, may I?
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: My understanding is
6 that the negotiations with the FDOT have been
7 going on for some six years on this issue?
8 MR. LEHTINEN: Yes.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: At what point in time
10 did the Miccosukees become aware that this
11 additional caveat may be placed into the
12 tentative mediation agreement?
13 MR. LEHTINEN: Friday. Meaning --
14 meaning --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I've got two
16 concerns --
17 MR. LEHTINEN: -- two -- three days ago.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and I will tip my
19 hand, by the way, and tell you up front, I
20 support the additional caveat.
21 My problem also, however, on the flipside
22 is the --
23 (Commission Crawford exited the room.)
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the good faith
25 negotiations and the fact that that's been going
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1 on for some six years.
2 We've heard made mention here today of the
3 possibility of -- of a brief period of continued
4 negotiations with the new caveat being
5 considered in those negotiations.
6 And I guess my dilemma, or my quandary is:
7 While I support the caveat for not using that
8 property for continued development, I recognize
9 it's only 8 acres. But as the man once said, a
10 million acres here and a million acres there,
11 before you know it, you've got a lot of acreage.
12 I also, however, as I say, I'm concerned
13 about prolonged mediation that we've been
14 through on this issue.
15 And I guess my -- since beginning
16 discussion on this, my concern is that we took
17 six years of negotiation, and we've suddenly put
18 a punctuation mark on it and said, end of
19 negotiations with a new wrinkle.
20 Is there the possibility of discussing --
21 or continuing to discuss this issue in light of
22 the caveat which I, and -- I can't speak for
23 other members of the Board -- would support, but
24 discuss it with consideration for possible
25 remuneration for some of that property?
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1 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
2 MR. LEHTINEN: Well, Commissioner, I would
3 say this with respect to that: The -- the money
4 is of -- of no significance to the Tribe. If
5 money were the issue, they'd live in downtown
6 Miami.
7 They have a society that continues their
8 culture. They've lived in that location
9 forever, they have aboriginal land rights.
10 Tiger built his camp on that land, and the State
11 didn't say anything, and I don't think could
12 have.
13 They paved the parking lot, I don't think
14 the State really could have in light of the
15 aboriginal rights and reasonableness issues that
16 are involved and no environmental harm.
17 FDOT picked that land because it was not
18 viewed as having any environmental significance,
19 as being damaged between the two roads the way
20 it is.
21 And it's of -- it's of no use or value in a
22 settlement if it doesn't come to the Indian
23 Tribe. They have far more than that in their
24 filled-in commercial Indian village and in the
25 parking lot. I don't know off the top of my
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1 head. But it's an 8 acre -- an 8 acre expansion
2 on what is 50 or 40 acres of -- of area used
3 right now.
4 And so there's no monetary compensation
5 that would -- that would really make a
6 difference in the loss of that -- of that land.
7 And I might ask: What -- if the State
8 doesn't deed it over, is it going to kick
9 Tommy Tiger out? I mean, there's resistance to
10 saying Tommy Tiger owns that land, but
11 Tommy Tiger does own it. He's lived there his
12 whole life. He ain't leaving. It's going to
13 take Federal Marshals and State Police to kick
14 Tommy Tiger off of there. And I don't think
15 that's going to be done.
16 I think that what happens is, there's kind
17 of -- a kind of nominal environmentalism. It
18 does appear on its surface that this is in the
19 Everglades. But they were filling mounds in the
20 Everglades and doing this 300 years ago and
21 200 years ago.
22 So to now impose a system of settlement
23 that says, take some money so that you can buy
24 some land in Hialeah -- that's not what you
25 said, Mr. -- Commissioner. But I mean, that's
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1 what -- see, we treat money as important because
2 it's a medium of exchange, and it can be
3 exchanged for other things of value. I mean, to
4 honestly point out why money is of value to us.
5 But if you're not going to go into Hialeah
6 and buy a parcel of land, then the money is not
7 of any great significance.
8 Back on the other question, FDEP did know
9 about this for more than a year, has discussed
10 these parcels for more than a year, and it was
11 just last Friday that -- you know, that's the
12 agency we've sued. We have three outstanding
13 lawsuits against them for not enforcing State
14 water quality laws -- our position, I'm not
15 saying that they agree with that.
16 So it didn't -- I guess it didn't surprise
17 me when that agency in the last minute proposed
18 that the Tribe not be able to essentially live
19 there, because that's what a restriction -- that
20 you can't build a house or build a parking lot
21 means you can't live there.
22 It's not a minor environmental
23 restriction. It's, we don't want you there, and
24 we're going to squeeze you until you have to
25 move.
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1 At least that would be the view that the
2 Tribe would take.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I think
6 Mr. Lehtinen's been about the most articulate
7 speaker I've seen in my ten years on the Cabinet
8 on this issue.
9 I'd like to move a substitute amendment --
10 or substitute motion to go back to the FDOT
11 settlement agreement.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
13 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
15 seconded.
16 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
17 THE CABINET: (Aye.)
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no?
19 Moved.
20 MR. LEHTINEN: Thank you, ladies and
21 gentlemen.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 24, acceptance of a land
24 acquisition procedures for the Southwest Florida
25 Water Management District and an acquisition
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1 agreement with the District for Jordan Ranch.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: (Nodding head.)
6 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, it's
9 approved.
10 MR. GREEN: Item 25, modification of a
11 five-year sovereignty submerged land lease.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. GREEN: Item 26, modification of a
18 five-year sovereignty submerged land lease.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 27, modification of a
24 five-year sovereignty submerged land lease, and
25 authorization to enter into settlement
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1 agreement.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- just a question.
5 It may or may not be an issue.
6 There's apparently some language within
7 this particular item that may or may not be
8 impacted by the vote on Item number 28 relative
9 to the submerged land lease and the issue of the
10 gaming ships?
11 For no other reason than possibly avoid
12 having to come back to an issue, we may want to
13 consider moving Item 27 so that we take it up
14 after Item 28.
15 It may just be easier for purposes of vote.
16 No other reason than that.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: I have no objection to
18 that.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Did we --
20 MR. GREEN: Temporary pass?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If I can
22 just ask one question is --
23 MR. GREEN: Yes.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Kirby,
25 hasn't -- didn't the applicant already agree to
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1 that particular language?
2 MR. GREEN: They did.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. I see
4 no reason to -- if they've agreed to it.
5 This is a company that gave us a hard time
6 in the first place. They put a gambling ship,
7 they expanded their own lease, we fined them,
8 they've been up here a couple of times.
9 If they've agreed to a particular
10 agreement, I see no reason not to allow their
11 agreement to go forward.
12 But if you want to defer, it's fine with
13 me. I just --
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: As I say, it only had
15 to do --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No, no. I
17 have no problem with deferring it. But they've
18 already agreed to it. So --
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I don't think there's
20 going to be an issue with it --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's defer the vote,
22 take up Item 27.
23 MR. GREEN: Okay. Item 28. It's
24 consideration of a policy regarding sovereign
25 submerged use by gambling ships.
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1 We have three speakers.
2 The first speaker is Jon Glogau, who will
3 help us lay out some of the legal principles
4 that are involved in this.
5 And then Ralph Haben and Morris Adger.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Jon, you're
7 here just for information, or you --
8 MR. GLOGAU: I --
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- you're
10 just going to answer questions --
11 MR. GLOGAU: I was here to answer any
12 questions regarding the legality of the ships
13 and what the law is as it is today.
14 If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy
15 to answer them.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think it's
17 best if Jon goes on later then, Kirby.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Stay close.
19 MR. GREEN: Well, let me -- then let me try
20 to get this in the right posture, I guess.
21 We've looked over the past 45 days, or so,
22 at ships that were using State waters for the
23 purposes of one-day cruises, and gambling from
24 them.
25 And we've provided with a matrix that show
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1 which of those ships are on sovereign submerged
2 lands publicly owned, and may be private -- and
3 others that are on privately owned lands that
4 the State at some point in time has conveyed out
5 of title to the State.
6 There are about 14 of those ships currently
7 that are using sovereign submerged land owned by
8 the public in the State of Florida.
9 There are provisions in Chapter 849 of the
10 Florida Statutes that deal with having equipment
11 for gambling stored or on -- on ships. And it
12 says that it's -- it's against the law to have
13 those, it's prohibited, on those that have a
14 U.S. flag registry; that it exempts foreign
15 registry.
16 That law was passed in 1987.
17 In 1992, the Federal government passed a
18 law, the Johnson Act I believe it's called, that
19 may affect our ability to claim that these
20 activities are prohibited in Florida waters.
21 We don't have a -- a preemption
22 determination on the Federal law yet.
23 So there is language in the
24 Florida Statutes that prohibits this type of
25 activity on foreign -- excuse me -- on
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1 U.S. registered vessels, but it exempts foreign
2 registered vessels from that prohibition.
3 That is kind of where we are at this point
4 in time.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If I can
6 just say one thing, Governor, here.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We're here
9 obviously -- and I want to thank you for doing
10 the research. This -- this Governor and Cabinet
11 passed a very strong resolution during the last
12 legislative session against certain of these
13 cruises to nowhere, especially those that were
14 only being used for gambling.
15 It was not your 700 foot boat that had
16 dancing, music, running tracks, tennis, golf
17 probably, everything else. These are what we --
18 and your research has shown -- what the
19 Legislature had -- did not take any action.
20 But it appears, you have much more
21 information here than the Legislature had before
22 them when they chose not to take action last
23 year.
24 And in your particular report you gave to
25 us -- and, again, I thank you for it and the
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1 thoroughness of it -- we are seeing, and for the
2 first time, really, I believe, that a number of
3 these vessels -- and most of them, as you will
4 see from your handout -- that are registered in
5 the U.S., are those that are 87 feet, 95 feet,
6 and very, very small vessels.
7 But those that are actually registered in
8 foreign countries such as the Netherlands,
9 733 feet, 704 feet, 855 feet, 782 feet, this is
10 a whole different thing.
11 And you also have a number of them here on
12 one of the pages, page 3, says you do not -- you
13 do not know whether it's a private lease, or
14 whether it's a -- a public lease. I guess
15 there's a -- there's one, two, three, four,
16 five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven of
17 them. And these are virtually very small. And
18 all but one appears to have registry in the U.S.
19 And as you very well stated, when the
20 Legislature made its change -- when it actually
21 made its change in '87 to allow vessels to come
22 into the State of Florida waters, with gambling
23 equipment on it, they only -- they said that
24 this will not pertain to vessels with the U.S.A.
25 registration, only -- only foreign vessels.
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1 And at that time, the Federal law did not
2 allow U.S. registered vessels to have any
3 gambling equipment on it.
4 So what's happened now is that we have in
5 Florida where these vessels -- these I guess,
6 converted shrimpers since the net ban has -- has
7 taken place, now have literally gambling.
8 And it's all they have on them. It's --
9 the smaller ones -- that it's an issue which we
10 should look at.
11 And I would hope that we're going to renew
12 our request of the Legislature to -- to address
13 this issue, and make some sense out of it.
14 But in the meantime, we may have a real
15 problem in that there may very well be certain
16 type -- what we -- whether we are for or against
17 these cruises, we may very well have a number of
18 these vessels that are on State land that,
19 in essence, are operating against the laws of
20 the State of Florida.
21 I think that's what you were saying.
22 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Well, Governor --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
25 TREASURER NELSON: -- could I ask: Do you
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1 have any idea what was the legislative intent
2 back in '87 that would distinguish between the
3 U.S. and the foreign registry?
4 MR. GREEN: No, sir. I'm sorry, I don't.
5 MR. GLOGAU: Mr. Nelson, in 1987, it was
6 illegal under Federal law for U.S. flagged
7 vessels to carry any gambling equipment.
8 So at least to that extent, the
9 Legislature's action in allowing only foreign
10 flagged vessels to carry the gambling equipment
11 in the State of Florida, those are the only
12 ships that would have them anyway.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: One other
14 thing. I believe my memory is correct, I think
15 some action was taken in the panhandle area by a
16 State Attorney against a particular vessel,
17 which I think is now -- I think a hurricane has
18 taken care of that vessel.
19 The people in -- and the legislators in
20 Dade County were very, very concerned that
21 whatever action was taking place was going to
22 adversely affect the cruise industry, and they
23 did not wish to adversely affect the cruise
24 industry.
25 But at that time, I cannot recall any --
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1 any particular information as to what type of
2 ships they were attempting to stop or not stop.
3 But it appeared that they -- they did not want
4 to stop the major cruise lines that have very
5 large vessels from actually operating in
6 southeast Florida.
7 And we can check out the legislative
8 intent. But we do have a legislator -- former
9 legislator in our midst here. So --
10 But it -- and the thing that does concern
11 me, and --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Talking about me?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is the
14 Florida Legislature, Governor, in 1987.
15 It was 19--
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Post-Civil War
17 legislator.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Hey, Lawton, you served
19 in the Legislature before cruise ships.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: You're talking about
21 after reconstruction.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: After
23 reconstruction.
24 Well, we do have a real situation here.
25 I mean -- and it really is. It's -- it may take
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1 a court to interpret it, it may take the
2 Legislature to readdress the issue.
3 But, you know, I really believe that the
4 proliferation of these particular vessels -- and
5 my own concern is not really the 750 foot one.
6 My concern, as I think as a -- as a Cabinet is
7 the 40 foot one who just has some slot machines
8 on it and a card -- a deck of cards. And they
9 take you out 3 miles, and keep you out there for
10 6 hours. And -- and there's no regulation at
11 all. But that may be up to the Legislature to
12 do something. But --
13 MR. GREEN: We do have two speakers that
14 would like to speak.
15 Ralph Haben and Morris Adger.
16 TREASURER NELSON: While he's coming up, I
17 just want to get this clear.
18 Are these U.S. registered ships violating
19 State law?
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now, he was in the
21 Legislature up there.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: In '87?
23 MR. HABEN: A long time ago.
24 MR. GREEN: Good question.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: See, I told you.
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1 MR. GREEN: I don't -- I don't know. We're
2 going to have to get with the Attorney General's
3 Office and the State Attorney's Office, and see
4 how they're going to interpret it and how the
5 Federal law may overlay this, and how all that
6 plays together.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And if they are
8 violating the law, it will apply to all of those
9 that are operating on State lands.
10 MR. GREEN: It will apply to all of those
11 that are U.S. registered, whether or not they're
12 on State lands or --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Or not.
14 MR. GREEN: -- on private lands.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Only U.S. registered.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Only U.S.
18 MR. GREEN: Only U.S. registered.
19 TREASURER NELSON: So then if it's
20 determinative that it is a violation, would you
21 then see a rush to register in a foreign
22 country?
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Absolutely.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Of course.
25 MR. GREEN: I think Mr. Haben may be able
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1 to address that for you.
2 MR. HABEN: My name is Ralph Haben. I
3 represent the Florida Day Cruise Association. I
4 also represent two people that are on the bubble
5 relative to their lease, two boats, one in
6 Jacksonville; and I represent a landowner, which
7 is Pier 81.
8 Governor, members of the Cabinet, good
9 morning.
10 I was going to talk about my specific
11 problem first, but let me just speak to a couple
12 of issues that have been raised.
13 This issue is not about whether you in your
14 capacity as a Trustee favor or don't favor
15 casino gambling. I would suggest that the vote
16 we're taking up here today would be unanimous
17 against casino gambling. And that's not what
18 I'm talking about.
19 Let's look for a moment where we are and
20 relative to whether it is against the law or not
21 under the statute that was passed in '87.
22 If that were the case, let me suggest to
23 you that Representative King from Jacksonville
24 never would have filed the opt-out bill that he
25 did last year, which I believe the
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1 Attorney General supported, understandably so.
2 That's why that bill was filed.
3 Had that bill passed, we would not be
4 having this conversation, because then under the
5 Johnson Act, Florida would have opted out, and
6 all of the cruises, the cruise ships, cruise to
7 nowhere, would have been gone. Because it would
8 have been illegal, then relative to the gambling
9 paraphernalia.
10 That's why that bill was filed. What
11 happened, that statute was passed in '87, as the
12 gentleman said, in compliance with what Federal
13 law was.
14 In '92 the Johnson Act was amended, and it
15 was amended to say that U.S. flagged vessels
16 could also carry gambling equipment. And let me
17 tell you why that was done. It was done on
18 behalf of American ship builders. That was the
19 reason that that was done. Had nothing to do
20 with gambling.
21 It had to do with competition so that U.S.
22 interests could compete relative to the purchase
23 of ships used around the world. That's why that
24 was done.
25 But in my judgment, the status of the law
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1 today is -- and you have a resolution that the
2 Cabinet passed in the Legislature. But the
3 appropriate body to do the opt-out provision --
4 and I do not question, Florida can opt-out.
5 You can do away with all of the cruises to
6 nowhere instantly. When I say "you" though, the
7 you is the Legislature. And you have done
8 actually whatever it is you can do, because you
9 have sent a resolution to the Florida
10 Legislature. And, in fact, they did file what
11 amounted to an opt-out bill last year. It died
12 in committee.
13 And so the status of the law now is, let me
14 suggest to you, that what the Cabinet ought to
15 do, if you're opposed to casino gambling, if
16 you're opposed to American interests having the
17 same parity as foreign interests, urge the
18 Legislature to pass the opt-out provision of the
19 Johnson Act, and then there is no question.
20 But under the doctrine of the Federal
21 supremacy in the '92 amendment to the
22 Johnson Act, the status of the law, in my mind,
23 is clear. It is not illegal to possess gambling
24 equipment in the State of Florida if you are
25 docked -- even if it's over sovereignty
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1 submerged land.
2 That is my position relative to the generic
3 question of why you're here today.
4 Let me, if I might, just take a moment and
5 be specific. I represent LaCruise, which is the
6 boat in Jacksonville.
7 Whatever you do -- I would respectfully
8 ask, whatever you do, we are on the bubble. DEP
9 has advised us that come October the 1st, we
10 have to do something. We don't know what to
11 do. We don't know what the State policy is.
12 We know we employ a lot of people, we pay
13 leasehold, we do all those things. We don't
14 know where we're going to be October the 1st.
15 So the one thing that I would ask you to do
16 as you consider this, is take into consideration
17 the people that are on the bubble -- and when I
18 say "on the bubble," those whose leases are
19 coming up for renewal.
20 So that at least until you make a decision,
21 whatever it may be, either for us or against us,
22 that we can at least continue on. If you decide
23 then to let us continue, then, fine, we can go
24 forward.
25 If not, at least we'll know something. So,
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1 specifically, that's what I ask you, for all
2 those people that are now on the bubble, and may
3 come on the bubble.
4 Thank you.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: One
6 question, Mr. Haben.
7 Where is that particular vessel
8 registered?
9 MR. HABEN: My client's right here.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Panama, I believe.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's Panama,
12 I believe.
13 MR. HABEN: Panama.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And that's a
15 260 foot vessel.
16 MR. HABEN: Yes.
17 Incidentally --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And this is
19 docked --
20 MR. HABEN: Let me respond further: The
21 only 40 foot gambling boat we had was mine, and
22 my new wife made me sell it.
23 All of ours was -- all of ours are 100 feet
24 or more. We have eating and dancing and
25 everything the 700 footers have, we're just a
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1 little shorter.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But the
3 thing is, the statute of limitations on your
4 admission has, I believe, run, so to speak.
5 MR. HABEN: No question about that.
6 Thank you.
7 MR. GREEN: Morris Adger.
8 MR. ADGER: Governor and members of the
9 Cabinet, good morning. My name is
10 Morris Adger. I am Port Director for the Port
11 of Fort Pierce. I work for the St. Lucie County
12 Port and Airport Authority. I am here this
13 morning at the direction of my chairman,
14 Commissioner Havert L. Fenn.
15 The gentleman before me referred to being
16 on the bubble. Gentlemen and Secretary Mortham,
17 we are not only on the bubble, we're at the top
18 of the bubble.
19 Our submerged land lease for the pier that
20 I'm going to talk about in just a second is --
21 expires this year and an application has been
22 made for renewal for it.
23 We were approached about a year-and-a-half
24 ago by a firm out of Boston, who currently, and
25 for many years, has been in operation there with
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1 a dinner cruise in the waters around Boston.
2 They also operate the airport to downtown
3 water shuttle service. We've made a number of
4 inquiries to the Massachusetts Port Authority,
5 and they're very reputable folks.
6 They approached us some months ago about
7 putting in a cruise to nowhere in Fort Pierce on
8 a pier that is owned by the Port Authority.
9 The uplands lands from which the pier goes
10 out is owned by the Port Authority. It's on our
11 south causeway.
12 The lands are State-owned lands, and we've
13 had a submerged land lease for five years at
14 that pier, and are currently, and have run for a
15 number of years, a dinner cruise boat that goes
16 up and down the Indian River.
17 Our Port Authority authorized staff to
18 negotiate a lease with the folks from Boston,
19 which we successfully did. And our
20 Port Authority approved that lease. It's been
21 executed by my Chairman, but is being held up
22 and pending execution by the folks from Boston
23 because of what came up with you all back in
24 March.
25 The reason it's being held up is that they
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1 agreed in the lease to do some fairly
2 significant upland improvements, such as
3 building a -- a parking lot for a couple of
4 hundred vehicles, which would serve them and the
5 cruise to -- up and down the river. They would
6 up-front the money for that.
7 Also build about a 2,000 square foot
8 building, which would house their ticket sales
9 and office space.
10 And also do some piling improvements to the
11 dock to accommodate their vessel. They would
12 up-front those improvements.
13 Now, we would, in our lease agreement,
14 would get about $100,000 a year revenue,
15 minimum. Could be exceeded if certain number of
16 passengers reached a certain level. We would
17 amortize their up-front investment over a few
18 years by reduced revenues from them from the
19 dockage and wharfage.
20 They understandably have been reticent to
21 carry forward with those improvements. They
22 were to have been in operation by November 1.
23 They are building a brand new boat.
24 I believe it's being built in Maine at a
25 shipyard. It's 168 footer. Looks like a very
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1 large and very attractive private yacht; would
2 have a level for dining and entertainment; a
3 level for gaming; and a level, I suppose, on top
4 for just sight-seeing.
5 In our lease agreement, it specifically
6 states they have to meet all Coast Guard and
7 State and Federal regulations. I think
8 General Butterworth was a little bit concerned
9 about safety. I think one of the issues you
10 were concerned about -- you didn't specifically
11 voice it -- but we were, too. That's why that's
12 in our lease agreement.
13 So we're on -- we're in a holding pattern.
14 The port to the north of us, Canaveral,
15 owns their submerged bottom lands. So a
16 prohibition in a submerged land lease would not
17 affect them.
18 The port to the south of us, Palm Beach,
19 has a similar situation. Although there may be
20 someone here from Palm Beach to speak, but this
21 has the potential to affect them because they
22 may want to move the location within their port
23 of where they would -- their gaming ship would
24 go out of, and then it would affect them.
25 So it directly affects us, and immediately
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1 affects us since we do have a submerged land
2 lease application pending.
3 I've had probably two dozen calls in the
4 last year-and-a-half or so from residents in the
5 County asking about this. About a third of them
6 have been people that are anxious to go out on
7 the boat and wanting to know when it's going to
8 start.
9 But about two-thirds of the calls have been
10 people wanting to know, where do I call to get a
11 job? They're interested in the employment.
12 St. Lucie County is number two in the state
13 in unemployment, and I submit to you that we're
14 looking for any sources of employment that we
15 can find.
16 So it's of immediate interest to us, and
17 I think you all are getting into the issue of
18 whether or not it's -- it's equitable to have
19 the submerged land leases prohibited in one
20 location, where neighboring locations it's not
21 going to affect.
22 I appreciate the opport--
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If I can
24 just ask a question.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You bring a
2 very interesting point up. But -- by the way
3 you're describing this particular vessel, I'm
4 not quite sure anyone can say this is primarily
5 being used -- or only being used for gambling
6 because the size of the vessel being three
7 decks, the dining deck, the sight-seeing deck.
8 I mean -- and it does have gambling. It sounds
9 almost like the much larger cruises.
10 But you said that the City is going to be
11 obtaining approximately -- and perhaps even more
12 than $100,000 in revenue?
13 MR. ADGER: Yes, sir.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let me ask
15 you one question: How much does the City now
16 pay to the State of Florida -- to the people of
17 the State of Florida to lease this -- this
18 sovereignty land?
19 MR. ADGER: One correction, General. It's
20 to the County and not the City.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
22 MR. ADGER: But it's around -- I believe
23 it's around $6,000 for the submerged land
24 lease.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And how much
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1 of -- what percentage of that land lease will
2 the -- this particular vessel be taking up,
3 about 20 percent?
4 MR. ADGER: Probably slightly less than
5 that.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. So,
7 in other words then, the people of the State of
8 Florida are obtaining about -- maybe $1200, and
9 the County's obtaining 100,000.
10 If, in fact, this was not a county, but a
11 private person, and then many times, of course,
12 we do have leases of State sovereignty land for
13 people to have their private docks. And
14 I believe our rate --
15 And, Kirby, you can correct me if I'm
16 wrong.
17 -- is the same. Our numbers have been
18 advocating over the past few years, we might
19 want to look at -- especially on these private
20 docks -- look at the amount of money the people
21 of the State of Florida are leasing this for,
22 because for your $1200, you're getting a pretty
23 good return on that.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- maybe to bring this
2 thing to at least some closure, it seems that we
3 all understand that we passed a resolution,
4 I believe, it was unanimously, during
5 legislative session.
6 We sent that to, I believe, Representative
7 Jim King, and Senator Jim Horne, who happened to
8 both be from Jacksonville where we're talking
9 about one of these ships being.
10 It seems that the Legislature did not
11 believe that they should outlaw these particular
12 cruises to nowhere. And it would seem, to me at
13 least, inappropriate that we would give an
14 unfair advantage to a particular ship that was
15 in a private docking situation, as opposed to
16 the State.
17 And I, therefore, believe that we should
18 leave the laws that -- I mean, we should adhere
19 to the law as it stands today, and we should
20 allow equal access.
21 And I believe that we should, in fact, take
22 this to the Legislature again next year, maybe
23 with a resolution, maybe with members of the
24 Cabinet actually going to the committee hearings
25 if, in fact, we believe that this is something
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1 that is good for the entire State of Florida.
2 But to say that we are going to allow it in
3 private -- not we -- the Legislature is going to
4 allow it in private ports, and yet we aren't
5 going to allow it on submerged lands I believe
6 is -- is unfair.
7 And so for that reason, I think that we
8 should leave the policy as it is today and go
9 forth and abide by the laws of the State of
10 Florida.
11 And I guess that's a motion.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If that is in the
13 form of a motion, I second it. It makes good
14 sense.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: We have a motion and a
16 second.
17 Is there discussion?
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Only
19 discussion, Governor --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- is
22 I believe we're still saying -- and I don't
23 disagree with -- with the motion at all -- is
24 that this is additional information we'll be
25 taking to the Legislature.
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1 We're still foursquare behind our
2 particular resolution, and we'll be going to the
3 Legislature again and asking them to put some
4 sense into it, and probably asking them to clear
5 up the language here, which -- one way or the
6 other -- where it says U.S.A. vessels cannot,
7 in essence, have gambling equipment in Florida.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: So many as favor the
9 motion, signify by saying aye.
10 THE CABINET: (Aye.)
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
12 Motion is adopted.
13 MR. GREEN: Thank you.
14 Second substitute item, number 29,
15 withdrawn.
16 I'm sorry, Governor. We need to go back
17 and take up Item 27. We temporarily passed
18 that.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Let's go back
20 to Item 27. We had a motion and a second.
21 Is there further discussion?
22 Without objection, Item 27 is adopted.
23 MR. GREEN: The second substitute Item 29,
24 recommend withdrawal.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion to
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1 withdraw?
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, Governor.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: So moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
6 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
7 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 30 is
8 consideration of a conceptual approval of a
9 five-year sovereignty submerged land lease in
10 Fernandina.
11 If I might, Governor, this item was on the
12 July 23rd Cabinet agenda. The Department
13 recommended that we defer the item because there
14 were some outstanding issues that we needed to
15 look at.
16 At that time, we were recommending denial
17 of the conceptual approval because of the
18 impacts that the vessel and the activities would
19 have had on sovereign submerged land in the
20 aquatic preserve.
21 Since that time, we've -- we visited the
22 site, the Secretary has made a personal visit
23 there. We visited with the Navy. And -- to
24 determine what their true needs were.
25 We've been to Norfolk to look at the
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1 operation of the site in Norfolk that's similar
2 to this.
3 We've talked with the Port of Jacksonville,
4 who indicated they may have an alternate site
5 that would be acceptable for these activities.
6 In review of that, we found that they had
7 not amassed the land base to support this, and
8 they had needed to purchase about three
9 additional parcels to consolidate the land
10 mass. They had to do dredging from -- from the
11 site at Dames Point out to the -- the river
12 channel, which was going to be at some length.
13 The site had to be completely developed.
14 The warehouses, power, roads going into the
15 site would have had to have been in place. So
16 the use of the Dames Point site became cost
17 prohibitive.
18 We, again, went to Norfolk, looked at the
19 operation there, made some recommendations of
20 change to the proposal to move the dry dock
21 further seaward, thereby getting it out of the
22 resource protection area where there would not
23 be any impacts on sea grasses or the oyster bar
24 that was of concern at the last meeting.
25 The original item had something like
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1 480,000 cubic yards of material that needed to
2 be removed to be able to support the activity.
3 With the seaward movement, it's down to about
4 a hundred and seventy, a hundred and eighty
5 thousand cubic yards. All out of the
6 biologically productive area.
7 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
8 MR. GREEN: And we also looked at the noise
9 levels, the impact on the park, the ability of
10 someone in the park to see the activities at the
11 site.
12 After reviewing all of those concerns,
13 we've decided that we think that we can make it
14 work. We think that it can be an investment in
15 Florida that -- that we can support from an
16 environmental perspective.
17 And, therefore, we've changed our
18 recommendation from a denial of the conceptual
19 approval to a recommendation that you approve
20 the conceptual approval.
21 We have Senator Williams here, who would
22 like to make a statement. And then we have
23 twenty -- we have almost 45 people.
24 I would recommend that we allow them
25 15 minutes per side.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Fifteen minutes to the
2 side?
3 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
5 SENATOR WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Green.
6 Governor, members of the Cabinet, my name
7 is Charles Williams. I'm a State Senator in the
8 Fourth District of Florida --
9 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
10 SENATOR WILLIAMS: -- which geographically
11 is the largest Senate district in Florida,
12 beginning right out in front of the Capitol, and
13 going all the way to the Atlantic Ocean north of
14 Jacksonville, including all of Nassau County,
15 which is where this proposed dry dock is to be
16 located.
17 And my purpose in being here today is to
18 let you know my strong support of the Navy
19 dry dock proposal by Metro Marine at
20 Fernandina Beach, which is the old
21 Nassau Fertilizer site.
22 And like Secretary Wetherell, I have also
23 toured the site, walking virtually every square
24 inch of it, and find that what is there now is a
25 deplorable situation. And a Navy dry dock
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1 facility there would certainly be an improvement
2 to the area.
3 My interest is in the economic development
4 and the creation of jobs in Florida.
5 A fourteen million dollar capital
6 investment in the dry dock facility there; the
7 creation of 500 new jobs, averaging $18 per
8 hour; and a twenty million dollar annual
9 economic spin-off in that area as a result of it
10 being located there.
11 I think all of us realize that as we
12 implement welfare reform in Florida, it's going
13 to be absolutely necessary that we create some
14 new jobs for our people. And this is a
15 wonderful opportunity that we have to create
16 500, what I consider, medium to high paying
17 jobs, for Floridians.
18 There is widespread support for the
19 project. The Board of County Commissioners
20 supports it in Nassau County, the Port Authority
21 supports it, the Nassau County Chamber of
22 Commerce supports it.
23 The project will involve, as Mr. Green
24 said, a reduced amount of dredging over what
25 originally was thought. It will also involve no
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1 damage or -- to the grasses or the oyster beds
2 in that area, which I believe is really
3 important.
4 It will involve the removal of two old
5 barges that are there, that are very unsightly;
6 and in my opinion, create a danger to the
7 public --
8 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
9 SENATOR WILLIAMS: -- for them just being
10 located there.
11 No pollution to the air; or to the water;
12 no noise problem; proper mitigation measures by
13 Metro Marine; and with the most advanced modern
14 technology, called the CAPE system, whereby the
15 ships will be totally enclosed so that they are
16 environmentally safe.
17 I think it's a win-win for everyone. And
18 we'd urge the -- urge your approval -- your
19 conceptual approval today of this project.
20 And thank you for allowing me to be with
21 you.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
23 MR. GREEN: The -- the first speaker in
24 opposition will be Jay Yarnell. And he'll
25 handle the speakers for the opposition.
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1 MR. YARNELL: Thank you, Mr. Kirby.
2 Cabinet members, I'll be brief, because we
3 have a number of people who wish to speak.
4 I certainly appreciate the access to
5 yourselves and your staff in the last week or
6 two to explain all of our technical reasons of
7 why we oppose this.
8 But the bottom line comes down to: We're
9 opposed to this because we want to preserve our
10 quality of life and our way of life for our
11 children and our community. And I think that's
12 what you're going to hear from the various
13 speakers.
14 The first two I'd like to introduce are
15 Leigh Thompson and Francine Cline, two young
16 people from our community.
17 LEIGH THOMPSON: Good afternoon.
18 My name is Leigh Thompson, and I want you
19 to know my feelings on the dry dock issue.
20 You may not understand how I feel, because
21 it may not be happening to your town. I've
22 spent a majority of my life in Amelia Island and
23 have realized my love for it. This dry dock
24 will cause many ecological problems. It will
25 also be bad on tourism, which is one of our
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1 city's main source of income. As well as a
2 chance of hurting the fishing industry.
3 In closing, I would like for you to make
4 the right choice and stand behind what the
5 people want. Please stop the dry dock from
6 being built, for me and future generations.
7 Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
9 MS. CLINE: Hi. I'm Francine Cline. And
10 I've come here today to speak on behalf of the
11 Fernandina's youth, for today and for tomorrow.
12 I'm not against the change, the progress,
13 or growth. But I am against exploitation of the
14 environment that building the dry dock might
15 bring to our community.
16 I realize that most of the support for the
17 dry dock is based on the perspective of an
18 increase in employment opportunities.
19 Yet we must take it upon ourselves to
20 defend the environment, because it can't stand
21 up for itself.
22 It's a matter of priorities. Which is
23 really more important for the future, a few jobs
24 or the well-being of the planet?
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
2 MR. YARNELL: Governor, I'd also like to
3 point out that these young people have taken it
4 upon themselves, they passed a petition among
5 their friends, and have 176 signatures which
6 have been faxed to you all's offices from the
7 young people of the town, saying that they're
8 opposed to this.
9 The next person I'd like to introduce is
10 our Vice Mayor, Greg Roland, who was born and
11 raised in the City of Fernandina Beach.
12 MR. ROLAND: Thank you, Jay.
13 Governor, Cabinet members, thank you for
14 allowing us our presentation here.
15 As a lifelong resident of Fernandina Beach,
16 it's difficult sometimes to make a decision
17 locally when your friends are sometimes on the
18 other side of the issues.
19 Jim Corbett, the property owner, has been a
20 good friend over the years. My wife has taught
21 his sons in school; my brother has been a
22 baseball coach at the high school, the athletic
23 director, so we're all intertwined in a small
24 community.
25 So this project has taken a lot of thought
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1 among our community members, and among the
2 City Commission.
3 One of the things that disturbed me most as
4 a council member was somebody forgot to ask the
5 City of Fernandina what we thought about this
6 project. So we got the news secondhand that
7 this was going to be established, even though a
8 County parcel that impacts the City totally.
9 Nowhere else does it impact the County or
10 anybody else.
11 There's one road in, one road out for this
12 project. Those of you that have been up there
13 know the beauty of Fort Clinch.
14 Before I made my decision in our
15 City Council vote, I told Jim Corbett and
16 Buddy Jacobs and the others that I'd like to
17 take a look at the dry dock in Norfolk.
18 I went up there under no preconceived
19 notions, other than the fact that, is this
20 project going to be good for Fernandina.
21 And I came away with the opinion that, no,
22 this is not what we want in Fernandina Beach.
23 It's out of scale for our area. The
24 potential for environmental damage is great.
25 Even though the CAPE system is what they say it
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1 is, do you want to trust that to the children's
2 future?
3 And again, one of the things that I'd like
4 to impact on you gentlemen and ladies up there
5 is the fact that it will impact the City of
6 Fernandina.
7 I have not had a single phone call in
8 support of this project, although we have a
9 tendency to gather those that are either opposed
10 or in favor of it, one way or the other, on
11 particular issues.
12 So as a lifelong resident for the City of
13 Fernandina, it's something I take heavy interest
14 in, in what I leave my community when I leave
15 the City of Fernandina Beach.
16 It will stress our city, it will expand our
17 services beyond our capabilities at the present
18 as far as police and fire. We have 21 firemen
19 on duty, seven each day.
20 I work for the Jacksonville Fire Department
21 full-time as a captain. And so when we have a
22 call at the Jacksonville shipyards, we send 60
23 to 100 firemen. We have seven to send if
24 there's an incident. So you can see how
25 problems are going to crop up, and how stressed
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1 we will -- our City services.
2 So, again, I ask you not to support this
3 project. It's with great conflict that we do
4 that in the City, but we do that in the best
5 interest of our citizens in the future in a 5 to
6 nothing vote in a resolution opposing this
7 particular project.
8 Again, I thank you for the opportunity to
9 come and speak to you on this particular
10 important issue.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, could I ask
13 him a question?
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sir, I understand that
16 this particular property is an enclave of
17 Fernandina Beach; is that correct or not
18 correct?
19 MR. ROLAND: It's an enclave of County
20 property, completely surrounded by the City of
21 Fernandina Beach on all sides.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And have you
23 ever tried to annex this property?
24 MR. ROLAND: There are no voting members
25 out there. So the annexation procedures, as I
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1 understand them, the property owner would have
2 to ask to be annexed.
3 So in this project, we have a City
4 ordinance coming up that we've approved on first
5 reading that any future properties to be
6 annexed, they'll have to have City water and
7 sewer. So when we run City water and sewer,
8 they have to annex into the City.
9 So, therefore, they will be a City parcel
10 out there. So the impact is going to be great.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And on this
12 piece of property, just going down a laundry
13 list of services, fire -- who provides fire
14 protection for this particular piece of
15 property?
16 MR. ROLAND: As a County parcel, it's their
17 responsibility. But the City being the closest
18 unit probably would get the first call.
19 They have the nearest fire station about 7
20 or 8 miles away with only two people on board
21 their truck. So our City fire engine would be
22 the first in, our police department already
23 patrol out there.
24 The -- Fort Clinch State Park is already
25 city limits. So that has been annexed over the
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1 years.
2 So, yes, ma'am, we would be providing
3 first-in services to that area whether they
4 become part of the City or not.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sanitation, is it
6 private or is it City?
7 MR. ROLAND: City.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's what?
9 MR. ROLAND: City.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It is City?
11 MR. ROLAND: Yes, ma'am.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Thank you very
13 much.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
15 MR. ROLAND: Thank you.
16 MR. YARNELL: Our next speaker is
17 Zachary Zoul, the City Manager for City of
18 Fernandina Beach.
19 MR. ZOUL: Governor, and members of the
20 Cabinet, I would like to indicate today on
21 behalf of all of the City officials of the City
22 of Fernandina Beach -- and you'll shortly hear
23 from our Mayor -- what we believe is the most
24 important message we can convey to you, and that
25 is that the citizens of Fernandina Beach and the
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1 people of Amelia Island oppose this project.
2 And that opposition is strong, and that
3 opposition is overwhelming.
4 And we as elected and appointed City
5 officials know the sentiment of our community,
6 because given the positions we're in, we hear it
7 loud and clear each and every day on the street
8 corners, in the coffee shops, in the cafes, in
9 our churches, in the playgrounds, and in the
10 schools.
11 And this project does not have the support
12 of the community, and it has widespread and
13 overwhelming opposition of our people.
14 This site is surrounded by a State park, a
15 State aquatic preserve, the Amelia River, the
16 Cumberland Sound, Egans Creek, and the Old Town
17 historic district. This is a pristine and
18 beautiful special place in our community and in
19 our state.
20 And the purpose of this aquatic preserve,
21 as set forth in the State, was to establish a
22 protective aesthetic buffer, and this project
23 violates that covenants.
24 The Fernandina Beach, Amelia Island Chamber
25 of Commerce has in its national ad campaign
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1 promoting our island for tourism, the slogan:
2 There's Still a Place.
3 And we believe there still is a place, and
4 we believe Amelia Island and Fernandina Beach is
5 that place. It's our community, it's our home,
6 it's a special place, and we ask for your
7 support to keep it that way.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. YARNELL: Our -- the last speaker that
10 we have due to time constraints will be our
11 Mayor, who is Mr. Robert G. -- B. Rog-- I'll get
12 it right -- Robert B. Rogers, Rear Admiral
13 U.S. Navy, Retired.
14 Before I introduce him, in addition to all
15 of the petitions that were sent to your office,
16 a large bus load and a large contingent of our
17 City residents and island residents, who are
18 also County residents, have come.
19 I'd like for them just to stand up so you
20 can see that they're here.
21 If everyone could stand up who has come to
22 demonstrate their opposition.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, we're glad to have
24 them all here.
25 MR. YARNELL: And now I'll turn it over to
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1 Mr. Rogers.
2 MR. ROGERS: Governor, Cabinet --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
4 MR. ROGERS: -- my past is irrelevant to
5 the issue at hand this morning. I'm going to
6 present myself as an honest broker on this one.
7 I was first made aware of this project --
8 potential project about two years ago. And up
9 until very recently, I was, in fact, in support.
10 I am now in direct opposition to it for a
11 wide variety of reasons.
12 Through my life, I've operated from the
13 principle that everything is related to
14 everything else. And in relating -- in trying
15 to relate, we have a situation where the DEP
16 changed its mind, and I believe they changed it
17 in the wrong direction.
18 You have a situation where no one knows
19 what the population -- I feel reasonably
20 confident that no one has invited your attention
21 to what the population growth rate is in the
22 City of Fernandina Beach, and on Amelia Island.
23 I'm reasonably confident that no one has
24 pointed out to you that in the near future, the
25 City will be dealing with the issues of growth
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1 in the port operations at Nassau terminals.
2 I feel reasonably confident that no one has
3 pointed out to you the percentage of the tax
4 base that Fernandina Beach and Amelia Island
5 represents within the County.
6 And I guess until those factors are all
7 addressed, I can't help but raise the issue as
8 to whether the spirit, the intent, and the
9 principles of growth management have been
10 brought to bear on this issue.
11 People have tried to steer me away from
12 using the term vision. I don't believe they
13 should do that, because -- I guess the question
14 I pose is: How much impact do you really want
15 to put on a fragile barrier island?
16 In this issue, it seems to me, there's --
17 you know, a previous speaker briefed you that
18 it'll cost too much to do it in Jacksonville.
19 All that tells me is we know the value of
20 every-- or we know the cost of everything, and
21 the value of nothing.
22 So if concept approval is given, I would
23 ask: Are you beginning an uphill fight to
24 justify the impact, are you beginning a downhill
25 ride to a foregone conclusion?
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1 And I personally have changed my position
2 on this, I'll stand by it. And the
3 City Commission has a resolution in place
4 opposing this. And I think it's right and
5 proper for our area that this not be approved.
6 Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, can I --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
10 TREASURER NELSON: What was the reason for
11 your initial support, and then what was it that
12 changed your mind?
13 MR. ROGERS: I got my responsibilities
14 mixed up.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Well, explain that.
16 MR. ROGERS: Yes, sir.
17 I've got a Navy background. I understand
18 the impact of sailors having to be deployed for
19 long periods of time, and then coming home and
20 being deployed during overhauls. I understand
21 all these things.
22 I'm a member of the National County
23 Economic Development Board. So obviously this
24 has some economic appeal. Obviously it does.
25 But as the people that put me in office --
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1 and I will point out that I ran for one term,
2 and do not intend to run again -- and that's --
3 That goes back to being an honest broker
4 again. Some people don't always say what is on
5 their mind because they want to secure their
6 future. That's not the case here, sir.
7 I became more responsive to what was being
8 said to me, and that's why I changed my mind.
9 TREASURER NELSON: And when did that change
10 occur?
11 MR. ROGERS: Oh, probably within the last
12 two weeks. And the article in the
13 Jacksonville Times Union on Saturday, the
14 31st of August, was one that pretty much put the
15 icing on the cake.
16 Because I saw things being presented in a
17 way that I didn't feel they constituted
18 mitigation for the impact that was going to be
19 incurred.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Let me ask you a
21 question as a former Navy active duty, now
22 Retired Admiral: I stated at the time that I
23 went up there that it seemed to me that the
24 logical place for this kind of activity is a
25 location close to Mayport.
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1 And obviously a place like Blount Island.
2 But for the marine ammunition dump there, they
3 couldn't do it in Blount Island.
4 Are there other places along the
5 St. Johns River where when I asked this question
6 a month-and-a-half ago, the answer was: No,
7 this dry dock facility, there were no other
8 places along the St. Johns River.
9 Has any information changed to your
10 knowledge with regard to that?
11 MR. ROGERS: I'm going to answer your
12 question directly and say no. But at the last
13 City Commission, I did pose the idea, why not
14 put it in Mayport.
15 Now, there's a political agenda, as I
16 understand it, and it evolves over the course of
17 time, and I am obsolescent as far as to the
18 policies of the Navy and so forth and so on.
19 But for a long time, there's been an
20 understanding on my part that there is an agenda
21 to convert the carrier piers in Mayport to
22 nuclear capable, and bring two carriers there.
23 There again, a wonderful economic opportunity
24 for Florida.
25 However, you've got trade-offs. If you
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1 don't use half of that carrier for -- or half of
2 that pier for a carrier, can you use half of it
3 for a dry dock? I don't know, sir. And I will
4 not pretend to represent the Navy's position,
5 but I'm -- I can ask the question.
6 TREASURER NELSON: So you know of no place
7 in the old Jacksonville shipyards further up the
8 St. Johns River from Blount Island that could be
9 used for this kind of activity.
10 MR. ROGERS: On the basis of my background,
11 I'd say they're there, if the money is to be
12 spent to do it, sir.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
14 MR. YARNELL: Like to thank the Cabinet for
15 their attention. That's the last of our
16 speakers. We have many more that are going to
17 be upset with me that I didn't let them come up
18 and speak.
19 But certainly appreciate your time and your
20 attention, and we certainly would appreciate
21 your consideration in denying the conceptual
22 approval at this time.
23 MR. GREEN: Buddy Jacobs for the
24 proponents.
25 Treasurer Nelson, to answer your question
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1 about the Mayport area, when --
2 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
3 MR. GREEN: -- we asked the Navy about that
4 a couple of weeks ago, they currently have
5 I believe it's 15 vessels in the port. They
6 plan to, over the next five years, increase that
7 to almost 30 ships.
8 So they wanted to with -- to keep that
9 space available for additional ships coming into
10 their fleet at Mayport.
11 TREASURER NELSON: That's in Mayport. I'm
12 talking about up river.
13 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
14 MR. JACOBS: Good afternoon, Governor, and
15 members of the Cabinet. I was here the last
16 time, and probably talked a little too long.
17 This time we have other people who are here in
18 favor of this project.
19 In order to answer some questions first
20 that Secretary Mortham asked, the land owner is
21 here, and he has his own private sanitation. It
22 is not City of Fernandina Beach there.
23 And as far as Vice Mayor Roland is
24 concerned, we had several meetings in which the
25 Mayor attended all those meetings. We had one
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1 in the City Hall chambers. So that has had
2 wide --
3 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
4 MR. JACOBS: -- meeting coverage.
5 We have as our first speaker an elected
6 official, the Chairman of the Ocean Highway and
7 Port Authority of Nassau County, Terry Powell.
8 MR. POWELL: Good afternoon, Governor, and
9 Cabinet members.
10 It is tough to be on the opposite side of
11 an issue in a small community because so many of
12 the folks that you have to argue against are
13 your friends and neighbors, church members,
14 et cetera.
15 But representing the Ocean Highway and
16 Port Authority as the Chair -- the Chairman, I
17 have some things to share with you.
18 We are elected to serve the best interests
19 of the entire county. One of our
20 responsibilities is to support the creation of
21 meaningful employment in our community.
22 Currently there are approximately
23 20,000 people in Nassau County who work, but
24 only -- there are only 10,000 jobs in
25 Nassau County. So obviously one out of every
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1 two people that works has to travel outside the
2 County to seek meaningful or gainful
3 employment.
4 And it goes along with the notion as well
5 that in Nassau County, for generations, our
6 greatest export has been our children. Time and
7 time again families thought they did a good job
8 if they got their kids raised up and sent off.
9 Maybe they could come back and make a living,
10 maybe they couldn't.
11 But you can see that with our current
12 ratios, that one out of two kids, maybe, can get
13 a decent job in Nassau County, stay, raise a
14 family, et cetera.
15 After considerable investigation of
16 Metro Machine and their operations, the
17 Ocean Highway and Port Authority views Metro as
18 a -- a significant employment opportunity for
19 the citizens of Nassau County.
20 We feel that this is a state of the art,
21 environmentally sensitive operation that'll
22 generate long-term economic benefit for our
23 citizens.
24 So it boils to, our goals are the same,
25 what's good for the State is good for our
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1 County.
2 And we would certainly appreciate your
3 favorable consideration with this opportunity
4 for our citizens.
5 Thanks.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
7 MR. JACOBS: The next speaker, Governor, on
8 behalf of the County Commission is
9 Mr. Ed Gandy.
10 MR. GANDY: Mr. Governor, and members of
11 the Cabinet, representing Nassau County
12 Commission, and elected Port Authority
13 Commissioner also.
14 When the County Commission first heard of
15 this project, they were excited about it, they
16 wanted to know more about it. They sent
17 Commissioner John Crawford to Norfolk to look
18 over the facility that was there.
19 As you go along, and without taking your
20 time, you will -- you will find out more about
21 this facility. They were very happy to come
22 back -- you have in your files, of course, a
23 5/0 resolution from the County Commission urging
24 you to give us this property on a conceptual
25 assignment. We want this project.
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1 County Commission, you know -- no one knows
2 more than you the responsibility of problems
3 that small counties have to provide jobs for our
4 people, yet to have a balance between industry
5 and the environment.
6 We feel like that this would be one -- the
7 most state-of-the-art facility that we've ever
8 seen. County Commissioner John Crawford's seen
9 it. He was very happy with it. The
10 County Commission's excited.
11 We speak for all the people of -- all of
12 Nassau County. We're interested in all
13 portions, whether it be the island, or whether
14 it be west Nassau. We're interested in all
15 parts of Nassau County.
16 We would like to add also that this
17 property, as you know, is existing right now as
18 zoned industrial.
19 In order to have the landowner utilize this
20 property, yet we be provided with a tax base
21 that we should have, and to give the jobs that
22 we must have a clean industry, which is hard to
23 do, this, you will find out, is the cleanest.
24 I would like to add on a personal note,
25 that as a young sailor -- as Mr. Rogers said --
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1 I boarded a battleship in 1942 that was in
2 dry dock in New York City. I've breathed dust
3 from shipyards since I was fifteen years old.
4 Right on up from New York to Jacksonville.
5 Never in my life have I seen such a state
6 of the art facility. I think that Nassau County
7 and state of Florida, we would be very proud,
8 and we would be very lucky to get such an
9 organization and such a clean industry to our
10 County.
11 Thank you very much.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
13 MR. JACOBS: Thank you.
14 Next, Governor, and members of the Cabinet,
15 we have Mr. Dan Bierman, who's an elected member
16 of the Soil and Water Conservation District in
17 Nassau County.
18 MR. BIERMAN: Thank you very much, Buddy.
19 Governor Chiles, members of the Cabinet,
20 it's a pleasure to be here. I want to apologize
21 to our Senator Williams. I wrote this, Senator,
22 before you made your presentation.
23 I have two hats. I'm elected as a
24 Commissioner in Nassau County, Soil and Water
25 District, as a supervisor; and I'm also
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1 President of the North Florida Navy League.
2 I would like to say that my experience with
3 the DEP has been totally satisfactory in our
4 beach renourishment project. And I feel they
5 are very professional, very competent in
6 preserving our environment and ecological
7 balance.
8 I have to do the Senator one better, I say
9 it's a win-win-win situation. It's good for the
10 State of Florida, for Nassau County, for
11 Fernandina Beach, and the United States Navy.
12 They're all winners.
13 No belching polluting smokestacks, no air
14 pollution, no water pollution, no sound
15 pollution, an economic benefit that could
16 protect our tax and income base from a possible
17 loss of tourism from either erosion or some
18 other activity could affect our economic base, a
19 natural situation.
20 There's no guaranteeing that the pulp mills
21 will last forever.
22 There are not an endangered species,
23 whether it be a manatee or other form of
24 wildlife.
25 As President of the North Florida Navy
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1 League, I feel deeply for the families that are
2 separated from their loved ones who are
3 dedicated crew members. We owe it to those who
4 are serving our country to contribute to the
5 effort for those who are doing their job, to do
6 ours.
7 This is not a Navy issue, it is a rational
8 answer in making Amelia Island a responsible
9 citizen in a very positive and honest way.
10 As I drove over the Shayes Bridge this
11 morning, I looked north of the pulp mills, and I
12 wondered: What is the real reason for a -- very
13 active people would have in rejecting a very
14 positive growth plan for our future.
15 Thank you very much.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- can I ask a quick
19 question?
20 Mr. Bierman?
21 MR. BIERMAN: I'm sorry.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Has the Soil and
23 Water Commission taken a position on this?
24 MR. BIERMAN: No, not as a Commission we
25 haven't. No.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. BIERMAN: Thank you.
3 MR. JACOBS: Governor, we have as well
4 today the President of Amelia Island, Yulee,
5 Fernandina Chamber of Commerce,
6 Mr. Chip Townsend.
7 MR. TOWNSEND: Good afternoon.
8 We're the delegation from the Amelia Island
9 Fernandina Beach, Yulee Chamber of Commerce.
10 I'm joined today by Sherry Stein-Corbin, who is
11 the Executive Vice President of our Chamber; by
12 John Mead, who owns Mead's Trophy and Framery in
13 Yulee, and is on our Board; by Jim Mayo, who is
14 the administrator of the Baptist Medical Center
15 in Nassau County, and is the Vice-Chairperson of
16 our Public Affairs Committee; by Sherry Klein,
17 who is the Chairperson of our Economic
18 Development Committee.
19 Again, I'm Chip Townsend. I'm the
20 President of First Coast Community Bank and
21 President of the -- of the local Chamber of
22 Commerce.
23 Our organization is comprised of over
24 700 business members in and around the
25 Amelia Island, Fernandina Beach, Yulee area.
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1 We call your attention to our resolution
2 which we passed unanimously on August 8th
3 wherein we support the location of Metro Machine
4 in Nassau County at the site of Nassau
5 Fertilizer.
6 We've taken this position, in short,
7 because we believe the Metro project represents
8 responsible economic growth. As a group, we
9 encourage you to join us, and welcome Metro.
10 As an aside, I'm Vice-Chairperson of the
11 Welfare to Work Committee of the First Coast
12 Jobs in Education Regional Board. Clearly, a
13 huge factor in our region's success with respect
14 to welfare reform is job creation.
15 The Metro Machine project represents a
16 large number of those new jobs that we so
17 desperately need as a state and as a region and
18 as Nassau County.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
21 MR. JACOBS: Governor, and members of the
22 Cabinet, I'd like to introduce you to
23 Richard Goldbach, who is the President of
24 Metro Machine, and recent Past President of the
25 Norfolk Chamber of Commerce.
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1 MR. GOLDBACH: Good afternoon. Before I
2 start, I think I'd like to thank, most of all,
3 Leigh and Francine for coming before all of us
4 today, and reminding us that they are the
5 solution for tomorrow in the environmental
6 area.
7 Their interest in environmental affairs and
8 the environmental -- the effect of the
9 environment on their fellow citizens is
10 essential, not only to this state, but to this
11 nation, and to this world.
12 Just keep doing what you're doing. As time
13 goes on, you'll find, as the rest of us have,
14 that protecting the environment simply by
15 standing in the way of things doesn't really
16 protect the environment, because these things
17 are -- inevitably must go on.
18 People must live, technology must advance.
19 And listening to the two of you was probably the
20 most heartening thing of my day, and probably of
21 my week.
22 I want to give thanks to the -- all of
23 those who have taken the time to understand this
24 project. I don't have to tell all of you how
25 complicated restoring the environment, and
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1 preserving the environment is, with all of the
2 conflicting forces that exist in the world.
3 But it is essential. And it's essential
4 that public and private interests work together
5 to do it. That's the only way it's going to be
6 accomplished.
7 Unfortunately, all of that takes a lot of
8 time and a lot of concentration. The details of
9 any advance are complicated, the technological
10 details, the organizational details.
11 And while I wanted to get on with this
12 project, and I think I was frustrated by the
13 pace of the DE-- Florida DEP, in fact, they were
14 doing what they need to be doing, which is to
15 spend the time necessary to understand every
16 detail of the proposed project and how it
17 impacted the people they're empowered to
18 protect.
19 I especially want to thank the -- the
20 members who support all of you, who were very
21 attentive, as we tried to explain to each of
22 them the very complicated objectives that we
23 were trying to achieve as we technologically
24 conduct our affairs in a way that doesn't impact
25 the water, doesn't impact the air, doesn't
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1 impact the quality of life.
2 I'm satisfied that we have a -- had a fair
3 hearing. I'm perfectly prepared to abide by
4 whatever your decision is.
5 And I'm ever so grateful for all of those
6 who have taken the time to fully understand all
7 the details that it's going to take to make this
8 project successful.
9 Regarding quality of life, and I agree with
10 Mr. Yarnell, quality of life is essential. But
11 there are a lot of people in this -- in this
12 world, there are a lot of people in this state,
13 included in those are a bunch of young people
14 whose quality of life today is being impacted by
15 their need to be jerked away from their families
16 whenever work is done on their ship. This is
17 after serving on deployments.
18 This is the moving force on the part of the
19 Navy that caused this project to come under
20 consideration in the first place.
21 From personal knowledge, the Navy has been
22 trying to solve this problem in the Mayport area
23 since 1992. They have been unable to solve it.
24 They've tried to solve it using local
25 shipyards. They tried to solve it using me, in
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1 combination with local shipyards. None of those
2 have been successful.
3 These are the people that are really the
4 focus of this project. Letting these young
5 people that are only -- just a few years older
6 than Leigh and Francine enjoy their lives, as
7 Leigh and Francine are trying to get their peers
8 to enjoy their lives.
9 I -- I just would like to ask you to focus
10 your attention on these young people.
11 This is the only site, I can assure you of
12 that. We have explored all the sites. This is
13 the only site in Florida that's going to enable
14 these people to be able to commute home at night
15 and enjoy the same kind of normal life that we
16 enjoy.
17 Thank you so much for listening.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
19 MR. JACOBS: Governor, I didn't realize he
20 was going to let me close. I'm not without
21 words though, I want you to understand.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think we've got a
23 few questions for --
24 MR. JACOBS: All right, sir. We -- we have
25 people here to answer them, and be happy to
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1 do --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
3 MR. JACOBS: -- that. Yes.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Go ahead.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Well, this is quite an
6 interesting one. We had the Department of
7 Environmental Protection, that up until a few
8 weeks ago, opposed it; then they change their
9 mind, now they support it.
10 We had the Mayor who up until two weeks ago
11 supported it, and now he opposes it.
12 So let me see if I can just get some facts
13 to try to make a -- a right decision.
14 Road traffic.
15 MR. JACOBS: All right, sir. As far as the
16 road traffic is concerned -- and we can
17 certainly have Mr. Goldbach answer that, if
18 you'd like. Would --
19 MR. GOLDBACH: I think I'd like to answer
20 it.
21 MR. JACOBS: Okay.
22 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Let me just
23 pose the question, if you will give me a
24 specific answer.
25 Vehicular traffic, whether it be car, bus,
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1 or truck, will be increased by how many per
2 day?
3 MR. GOLDBACH: Increased?
4 TREASURER NELSON: Increased by how many
5 per day as a result of this facility.
6 MR. JACOBS: Mr. Goldbach doesn't know what
7 there is today. But what's happening is --
8 (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
9 MR. JACOBS: -- Mr. Corbett spoke to you at
10 the last Cabinet meeting and told you that he
11 has truck traffic going there now.
12 Those -- the number of trucks would be
13 diminished from -- that go there today.
14 As far as the employees are concerned,
15 they'd be bused into the site. So you're
16 actually going to have a diminishment of
17 traffic.
18 Mr. Goldbach --
19 This is what's going to happen, folks. We
20 are acquiring off-site, out of the City limits,
21 a parking lot -- and these people will be bused
22 in. He does this in Norfolk.
23 This is the plan, and this is what we would
24 go forward to, and that certainly could be part
25 of any permit that we'd negotiate with you all.
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1 Secondarily, as far as truck traffic is
2 concerned, he has one truck going in every
3 morning, and one truck every night.
4 This is not a business where you produce a
5 product where you have to bring in raw materials
6 to be processed and then shipped out as a
7 finished product. It's a service activity. And
8 the truck that comes in, comes in and brings
9 whatever supplies come in from Norfolk in the
10 morning, it goes out at night. And so that's
11 the extent of the traffic situation.
12 TREASURER NELSON: So that's the extent of
13 the -- of the truck traffic, is one in in the
14 morning, one out at night.
15 MR. YARNELL: That --
16 TREASURER NELSON: I'm going to get to you,
17 Mr. Yarnell, in just a second.
18 MR. GOLDBACH: No. I just --
19 TREASURER NELSON: Let me ask the
20 questions.
21 MR. GOLDBACH: The question has not been
22 answered accurately, which is what I'd like to
23 correct.
24 TREASURER NELSON: All right.
25 MR. GOLDBACH: There's one -- there's only
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1 one truck above -- above pickup truck size that
2 will come in each day, and one truck above
3 pickup size that will leave each day.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. I understand
5 that.
6 Now, other vehicular traffic. How much
7 will the area that -- the only way you get into
8 this is to go through the residential areas.
9 So I am interested in the increased traffic
10 as a result of this facility.
11 Can somebody give me an answer?
12 MR. JACOBS: I'll try to do it.
13 We have currently a paper mill called
14 Container Corporation of America, which is
15 existing there. They have 100 trucks, about, go
16 in there every day. We have a port that has --
17 TREASURER NELSON: That's not what I asked.
18 MR. JACOBS: We're going to have buses that
19 go in and bring people. It'll be 500 employees
20 and three ships. And there are some sailors as
21 well.
22 So it would be school bus type of traffic
23 that would go in and out. And that's the kind
24 of -- the way the people would be transferred.
25 As you know from seeing this site, there's no
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1 parking areas on the site.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
3 So how many of those per day?
4 MR. JACOBS: Well, it's probably -- each
5 shift, maybe as many as three to four buses each
6 shift going in and out of this area.
7 (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
8 TREASURER NELSON: Three times a day.
9 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Three to four buses. So
11 we're --
12 MR. JACOBS: -- buses --
13 TREASURER NELSON: -- talking about a max
14 of nine to twelve bus loads per day.
15 MR. JACOBS: That's the current plan,
16 yes, sir.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. So in total
18 increase in traffic, we're talking about those
19 bus loads; plus one larger than pickup size in
20 the morning, and out at night.
21 Now, is there any other vehicular traffic
22 that you expect in and out?
23 MR. GOLDBACH: I would think that there
24 would be pickup trucks, perhaps ten a day in and
25 out.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: All right. What is the
2 present vehicular traffic to the fertilizer
3 site?
4 MR. JACOBS: Mr. Corbett's here who runs
5 that site. He has a warehousing operation there
6 at present --
7 TREASURER NELSON: I don't want a long
8 answer. I just want a quick understanding of
9 the degree of vehicular traffic in and out.
10 MR. JACOBS: This can be more or less, Jim,
11 I guess, is what --
12 MR. CORBETT: Not a whole lot.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Well, does that mean
14 five, does that mean 25, what does that mean?
15 MR. CORBETT: You talking about 18 wheelers
16 or cars?
17 TREASURER NELSON: I'm talking about
18 vehicles.
19 MR. CORBETT: Vehicles? Say, 20, 25 a day.
20 MR. JACOBS: Is what you have right now?
21 MR. CORBETT: It could go higher than that.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Twenty to twenty-five a
23 day. Now, that will be, you're saying,
24 replaced. Those 20 to 25 a day will -- will
25 zero out --
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1 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
2 TREASURER NELSON: -- and that will be
3 replaced with these buses and the larger than
4 pickup size, one in and one out, and that will
5 also be -- you said about ten pickup size trucks
6 per day.
7 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
8 TREASURER NELSON: So what you have just
9 told me is that the vehicular traffic is going
10 to lessen going into this site as a result of
11 changing the fertilizer site to the Navy site;
12 is that correct?
13 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir. That is correct.
14 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, let me
15 hear Mr. Yarnell.
16 Would -- do you accept that as fact, or do
17 you accept that as fiction?
18 MR. YARNELL: I would take issue with those
19 numbers. Just very simply, look at the very
20 first operation that they want to do there is
21 the operation of sandblasting the ship, which
22 requires multiple tens of tons of grit to be
23 hauled in, and then blasted onto the ship; and
24 then it becomes a hazardous waste, which then
25 must be hauled back out again through the
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1 residential neighborhood.
2 Just that very operation in its own will
3 precipitate a number of 18 wheelers coming
4 through just to haul that material on.
5 Then on --
6 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Mr. Jacobs, could
7 you address that?
8 MR. GOLDBACH: Goldbach.
9 Yes.
10 It will, in fact, be those materials coming
11 in and out. But they'll be coming in and out by
12 barge.
13 TREASURER NELSON: By barge.
14 MR. GOLDBACH: Yes, sir.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. Yarnell, did you
16 hear that?
17 MR. YARNELL: Yes, sir, I did.
18 TREASURER NELSON: He said by barge, not by
19 truck.
20 MR. YARNELL: That's the first I've heard
21 of that. There's also the issue of bring-- they
22 have to bring the paint in, they have to bring
23 in all of their hardware.
24 This is not just a -- an operation to
25 sandblast and paint, this is also a full ship
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1 refitting RFP coming from the Navy.
2 TREASURER NELSON: And --
3 MR. YARNELL: So they're going to have to
4 be bringing this equipment in. The sheet metal,
5 the nuts, the bolts, the welders, the whole nine
6 yards.
7 And also a comment on the bringing in of
8 the bus loads of people from a parking lot
9 outside the City is just a further reenforcement
10 that there's no intention to provide jobs to the
11 City of Fernandina Beach or Amelia Island.
12 They've intended to import these jobs from
13 someplace else.
14 TREASURER NELSON: All right. But I'm
15 asking not about that issue, I'm asking about
16 the vehicular traffic issue.
17 Would you, Mr. -- is it Goldbacher?
18 MR. GOLDBACH: Goldbach.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Would you respond to his
20 comment about all the paint and equipment and
21 so forth.
22 MR. GOLDBACH: Well, there are all the
23 materials that he described, and more, do,
24 in fact, come in and out of the shipyard. The
25 only question is how they will come in and out.
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1 Barge transportation will be used for bulk
2 materials in bulk shipments. Truck
3 transportation will be used for nuts and bolts.
4 Probably cans of paint, although at times there
5 may be -- cans of paint may be large enough.
6 The -- as far as his description of what
7 gets used in a shipyard, there's absolutely no
8 dispute. The only question is how it's going to
9 get there.
10 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Governor,
11 would you indulge me one additional line of
12 questioning?
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Line? I thought that was
14 going to be one question.
15 A line can be --
16 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'm trying to get
17 answers. And I can't -- I can't assure you that
18 it's going to be one question.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay.
20 TREASURER NELSON: The question of --
21 I think right across Egans Creek is this
22 Old Town.
23 And I think it's a legitimate question for
24 those folks who live there as to the activity
25 beyond this high technology CAPE system. And
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1 that activity in terms of sight and sound and
2 so forth.
3 Would -- would you address the issue of the
4 activities that will take place on this site
5 outside of your CAPE system, and what that does
6 to noise and sight.
7 MR. GOLDBACH: The maximum sound level will
8 be reached with a combination of abrasive
9 blasting, and all other concurrent activities.
10 That's the maximum sound level that's achieved
11 by any shipyard.
12 We recently took readings within a shipyard
13 while there was abrasive blasting going on in
14 the CAPE system. The sound coming from the
15 shipyard, including the abrasive blasting, at a
16 distance of 500 feet from the end of the
17 dry dock, was measured to be conversational
18 level.
19 The -- this was an independent testing
20 laboratory, and I unfortunately didn't receive
21 the report until the 3rd, so I didn't have a
22 chance to submit it to the DEP prior to them
23 making their evaluation.
24 But it was, in fact, consistent with their
25 own findings, which were simply based on
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1 listening.
2 So we have a -- a very significant tourist
3 attraction directly across from us in Norfolk,
4 approximately 1,000 feet away. And I think
5 about the same million people that come to
6 Amelia Island, come there.
7 I -- that tourism has built up in the
8 presence of all the shipyards. It could not
9 have done that if the sound, in fact,
10 encroached.
11 TREASURER NELSON: From the activities in
12 the fertilizer facilities now, will the decibel
13 level go up as heard across Egans Creek in
14 Old Town?
15 MR. GOLDBACH: I think you'd have to have
16 measuring instruments much more sensitive than
17 the human ear -- human ear to detect the
18 difference.
19 But if you had those instruments, I think
20 you would find that the sound level is higher
21 than the fertilizer plant, which is essentially
22 a dormant facility.
23 But the one who doesn't have those
24 instruments, I can't say that they'll notice any
25 difference whatsoever.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I ask -- I want
2 to follow up on that very quickly. And --
3 because I heard an answer this morning I want
4 confirmed.
5 It was brought to my attention that there
6 was a concern -- and you need to know that one
7 of my interests on this is the CAPE system. If
8 the CAPE system were not being discussed, my
9 level of interest would wane to a great degree.
10 CAPE system because it is not only meant to
11 envelope, as I understand it, pollutants; but
12 also to envelope sound, to a great degree,
13 whatever that is.
14 Yesterday I had a discussion with
15 Mr. Yarnell regarding the possibility that the
16 CAPE system, which is meant to envelope the
17 whole structure, thereby compressing sound and
18 pollutant activity within that envelope, there
19 was a concern expressed on his part that the RFP
20 may also contain work beyond the hull structure,
21 which went higher into the superstructure of the
22 vessel.
23 We checked that out. Now, somebody confirm
24 it for me, my understanding as of this morning
25 is, there would even be a commitment that that
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1 may not be true.
2 Further, that there would be a commitment
3 that the RFP not include work that would extend
4 to the superstructure of the vessel, but that
5 work which would be contained within the CAPE
6 system itself, which certainly would impact the
7 noise issue, recognizing that not all the noise
8 is going to be contained within that structure,
9 because as the Commissioner mentioned, there
10 will be peripheral kinds of activities around
11 that shipyard.
12 But that certainly would be a leading
13 contributor to the noise factor.
14 Can you express that --
15 MR. GOLDBACH: Yes. Mr. Yarnell is
16 100 percent correct. But the work on the sides
17 of the house is performed by ships' ports,
18 almost inevitably, as opposed to the shipyard
19 itself.
20 And it's performed using needle guns, which
21 are an impact device that removes the old
22 paint. And sailors do it, and sailors do the
23 repainting.
24 And I think that -- that's an issue that
25 has to be addressed and can be addressed with
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1 the United States Navy. That work can just as
2 easily be done by the ship's force when it's
3 aboard the ship in the Mayport basin in a way
4 that would not intrude on the -- on the -- the
5 region surrounding the shipyard, including
6 Old Town, Fernandina.
7 I -- the Navy is willing to make enormous
8 concessions to conduct their affairs in a way
9 that will allow them to keep their people in
10 home port.
11 So I think I can make you a commitment that
12 there will be no such work done --
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, the question
14 extends, I guess, as much statement as question,
15 and that's the fact that what we are discussing
16 today is conceptual approval, if granted, and
17 the fact that there do appear to be a couple of
18 additional, maybe more, questions that if
19 conceptual approval is granted, would have to be
20 answered before final approval would be granted,
21 recognizing that some of this still hinges on
22 the RFP, which is to be determined by the
23 United States Navy, and not the vendors who
24 would apply, nor the citizens of that area.
25 So I just drive that point home to indicate
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1 that not all the answers, in my opinion, can be
2 given by either side standing at that podium
3 today, nor by the members of the State Board.
4 MR. GOLDBACH: The RFP is nonspecific as
5 far as the task is concerned, because the RFP is
6 essentially contracting to do all the work that
7 needs to be done by a contractor on twelve ships
8 for the next five years. And they're not smart
9 enough to know what all that work is at the
10 start.
11 And so it's general in nature, and they
12 give illustrations of the kinds of work that can
13 be performed. And the RFP permits the
14 contractor to place whatever conditions that the
15 contractor determines are necessary in his
16 technical response to the solicitation. This is
17 one of the areas that we would address.
18 I agree with you that the process as it
19 goes forward should explore this, and -- and we
20 can certainly -- we work with the Navy, and
21 refine with them what gets done in Mayport, and
22 what gets done in Nassau County.
23 MR. YARNELL: Mr. Brogan --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
25 MR. YARNELL: Mr. Brogan, since you raised
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1 the question of the impacts on Old Town, there
2 should be, in the information that you have, a
3 letter from Dr. Bill Tilson from
4 University of Florida, the Carib-- Preservation
5 Caribbean Institute, who he has -- he's being
6 hired by the City of Fernandina Beach to develop
7 the development guidelines for the area of
8 Old Town.
9 And in that letter, he clearly states that
10 he cannot support this type of project in this
11 proximity to Old Town, and that he requests
12 that -- in his letter also, he encourages that
13 conceptual approval not be approved due to the
14 impact on the historic nature of Old Town.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That particular
16 professor has been procured by --
17 MR. YARNELL: He -- well, he is -- I don't
18 know if -- Mr. Roland can probably tell better.
19 I don't know if he's actually been hired to
20 date, or he's -- I know that we've been talking
21 to him, not about this issue until just the last
22 couple of days.
23 What we've been looking at is how to ensure
24 the proper development of Old Town and the
25 proper -- make sure we have the proper
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1 guidelines for architectural and -- you know,
2 what type of structures go into --
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: My question is
4 though: He -- his services, if not already
5 procured, would be procured by what entity?
6 MR. YARNELL: By the City of
7 Fernandina Beach.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: City of Fernandina?
9 MR. YARNELL: Yes.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: We did get that, I
13 think.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Before we get too
15 far, Governor --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- let me ask one
18 simple question.
19 I -- and this is to you, Mr. Green.
20 From the DEP assessment of this whole
21 situation, there is no other site, other than
22 Nassau County site, including the Mayport Navy
23 basin, available for this particular operation.
24 MR. GREEN: In our discussions with the
25 Port Authority for Jacksonville, with the Navy
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1 on their site in Mayport, and looking at the
2 Dames Point site, we know of no other site --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
4 MR. GREEN: -- that would be --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you.
6 MR. GREEN: -- appropriate for this.
7 Commissioner Brogan's comments --
8 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. Yarnell --
9 MR. GREEN: -- were --
10 TREASURER NELSON: -- wants to say
11 something.
12 MR. YARNELL: Yeah. Just to speak to
13 Mr. Milligan's question.
14 The comment was made this morning that
15 there were no other applicants either.
16 There are at least two other applicants
17 that I'm personally aware of, and there may be
18 more.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
20 MR. GREEN: We have a conceptual -- this is
21 a conceptual approval. They have to have a
22 permit from the Department to do the dredging
23 work, and then it would have to come back to
24 the Board for final approval on the leased area.
25 So we will see this again if you --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: What is your pleasure on
2 the recommendations of the Department?
3 TREASURER NELSON: Well, in the voting on
4 this conceptual approval, I want it made subject
5 to the testimony here today regarding noise
6 control and traffic reduction.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Did I -- on that
8 note, Governor, can I ask:
9 Did I understand that the DCA is engaged in
10 a traffic study of that particular area right
11 now?
12 MR. YARNELL: DOT is, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm sorry. DOT.
14 Excuse me.
15 MR. YARNELL: DOT has -- as a matter of
16 fact, they have a workshop tonight to begin the
17 discussions of --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So back to
19 Commissioner Nelson's point: By that time, they
20 may have some additional information regarding
21 traffic flow and patterns?
22 MR. ZOUL: I'd like to speak to that.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
24 MR. ZOUL: The Department of
25 Transportation, Governor, and members of the
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1 Cabinet, will be having a public meeting tonight
2 in Fernandina Beach.
3 The City and the County and the Chamber of
4 Commerce asked them to undertake a corridor
5 study of the Eighth Street, A1A corridor because
6 of concerns about congestion and overcapacity,
7 and the high volume of industrial truck
8 traffic.
9 So that's been a very real concern. And
10 we're concerned greatly that we're over
11 capacity, or approaching capacity today.
12 And we think that the busing in of
13 500 employees, and the support traffic
14 associated with feeding and caring for that
15 major facility, is going to add considerably to
16 the traffic.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: But they are studying
18 the issue is what I want to know.
19 MR. ZOUL: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you.
21 Thank you, Governor.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'm at your pleasure.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We don't have a
24 motion at this time?
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: No, sir.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, let's get it
2 off a dime.
3 I'll make a motion that we approve the
4 conceptual request for the use of that site.
5 TREASURER NELSON: And can you make it
6 subject to the testimony regarding noise control
7 and traffic reduction as printed --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Consider it --
9 TREASURER NELSON: -- presented today?
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Consider it done.
11 TREASURER NELSON: As presented today.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
15 seconded.
16 Is there further discussion?
17 So many as favor the motion, signify by
18 saying aye.
19 THE CABINET: (Aye.)
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: The motion carries.
23 MR. GREEN: Governor, that concludes our
24 agenda.
25 (The Trustees of the Internal Improvement
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1 Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
2 *
3 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
4 1:07 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 183 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 20TH day of SEPTEMBER, 1996.
17
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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