Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
6 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
7 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
8 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
9 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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11 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
12 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
13 July 23, 1996, commencing at approximately 9:55 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
25 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
July 23, 1996
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Barbara Jarriel,
4 Acting Executive Director)
5 1 Approved 6
2 Approved 7
6 3 Approved 7
4 Approved 8
7 5 Approved 8
6 Approved 8
8 7 Approved 9
8 Approved 9
9 9 Approved 10
10 Approved 11
10 11 Approved 16
11 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
12 Director)
13 1 Approved 17
2 Approved 17
14 3 Approved 18
4 Approved 18
15 5 Approved 18
6 Approved 19
16 7 Approved 19
17 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
18 Executive Director)
19 1 Approved 21
2 Approved 21
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
July 23, 1996
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
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ITEM ACTION PAGE
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
4 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
Deputy Commissioner)
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1 Approved 23
6 2 Approved 24
3 Approved 25
7 4 Approved 25
5 Approved 25
8 6 Approved 26
7 Deferred 26
9 8 Approved 26
9 Approved 27
10 10 Approved 28
11 Approved 28
11 12 Approved 28
13 Approved 29
12 14 Approved 29
15 Approved 29
13 16 Approved 39
14 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
15 Secretary)
16 1 Approved 40
2 Approved 40
17 3 Approved 41
4 Approved 41
18 5 Approved 41
6 Approved 196
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FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
20 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 43
22 2 Approved 43
3 Approved 44
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
July 23, 1996
5
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 45
7 2 Approved 45
3 Approved 46
8 4 Approved 46
5 Approved 46
9 6 Approved 46
7 Approved 47
10 8 Approved 47
9 Approved 72
11 10 Deferred 76
11 Approved 77
12 12 Approved 77
13 Deferred 133
13 14 Approved 133
15 Approved 156
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15 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 197
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:41 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: And today is the last
4 Cabinet meeting for Carmelia Bugbee. She is
5 moving over to my scheduling office.
6 I want to thank Carmelia for all of her
7 work in helping to make these meetings go as
8 smoothly, and for taking care of many details
9 that Danny and Curtis can't handle. I know the
10 other Cabinet members and the staff are going to
11 miss her assistance with all of the projects.
12 Maybe we won't have as many resolutions
13 now. She was too accommodating on that I think.
14 But we want to thank you very much, and
15 good luck to you.
16 State Board of Administration.
17 MS. JARRIEL: Good morning.
18 The first item we have this morning is
19 approval of the meetings -- approval of the
20 minutes of the meeting held on July 9th, 1996.
21 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
24 seconded.
25 Without objection, that's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
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1 MS. JARRIEL: The next item is a
2 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency,
3 not to exceed six million six hundred and fifty
4 thousand Florida Housing Finance Agency Revenue
5 Bonds, Vizcaya Villas project.
6 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, Item 2 is approved.
10 MS. JARRIEL: Next item is also a
11 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
12 to exceed 19 million Florida Housing
13 Finance Agency revenue bonds, Center Court
14 Apartments project.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, that's approved.
19 MS. JARRIEL: Next, a recommendation to
20 approve fiscal sufficiency not to exceed
21 four million five hundred and thirty thousand,
22 Florida Housing Finance Agency Revenue Bonds,
23 Mystic Woods, Phase II Apartments projects.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
8
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, Item 4 is approved.
3 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 5, recommendation
4 to approve fiscal sufficiency not to exceed
5 two hundred and fifty million State of Florida
6 State Board of Education PECO bonds, Series A.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and second.
10 Without objection, the item is approved.
11 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 6, a
12 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
13 to exceed seven million eight hundred thousand
14 Florida Housing Finance Agency revenue bonds,
15 The Landings at Sea Forest Apartments project.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 7, a
21 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
22 to exceed eleven million one hundred and five
23 thousand Florida Housing Finance Agency Revenue
24 Bonds, Leigh Meadows Apartments project.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 8, a
5 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency not
6 to exceed twelve million five hundred thousand
7 Florida Housing Finance Agency Revenue Bonds,
8 Stoddert Arms project.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
12 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 9 relates to the
16 Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund. We request
17 that the Trustees adopt a resolution which
18 determines that the issuance of bonds will
19 maximize our ability to meet our obligations,
20 and to approve the form, and authorize the
21 execution of a pledge and security agreement for
22 the issuance of said bonds.
23 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
24 And, Governor, I might just say that the
25 Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund now has the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
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1 capability of bonding about $5 billion. And,
2 of course, a bond issue of that magnitude,
3 you're talking about a huge draw on the
4 financial markets.
5 And what they're trying to do is to get it
6 in line so that they could go quickly into the
7 market and float those bonds if we had a big
8 catastrophe.
9 So they're doing the right thing here.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a motion.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Second.
13 Without objection, that's approved.
14 You're not saying that you want to use
15 those right now.
16 TREASURER NELSON: No, I don't want to use
17 them at all.
18 As a matter of fact, we've got a cushion
19 now, by the end of the year, we'll have
20 $1.4 billion in the trust fund.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
22 You're not bragging.
23 TREASURER NELSON: I'm just saying, I'm
24 thankful we have a cushion. I don't want to use
25 it. I want that thing to keep building and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
11
1 building and building, and not to draw on it.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Absolutely.
3 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 10, the Acting
4 Executive Director submits for your review and
5 approval, Investment Performance and Fund
6 Balance Analyses Reports for the month of May
7 and June.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MS. JARRIEL: Item number 11 relates to the
13 Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund Finance
14 Corporation.
15 Under Statute 215.555(6), the Florida
16 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund Finance Corporation
17 was created. Since the members of the State
18 Board of Administration are named under this
19 statute as members of the Board of Directors for
20 this corporation, the organizational --
21 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
22 MS. JARRIEL: -- meeting of this
23 corporation is being held in conjunction with
24 the SBA agenda.
25 At this time, I would like to introduce
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
12
1 Jack Nicholson, the Chief Operating Officer of
2 the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund; and
3 Ben Watkins, Director of the Division of
4 Bond Finance. These two individuals comprise
5 the remainder of the Board of Directors for this
6 corporation.
7 At this time, this concludes the SBA
8 agenda.
9 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
10 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
13
1 MS. JARRIEL: And, Governor, we ask that
2 you call the organizational meeting of this
3 Financing Corporation to order.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Meeting is called to
5 order.
6 MR. NICHOLSON: Governor, let me provide a
7 little background. As Barbara mentioned,
8 Committee Substitute for Senate Bill 2314
9 created section 215.555(6)(c) of
10 Florida Statutes, which creates the Florida
11 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund Finance Corporation.
12 It's a public benefit corporation for the
13 purpose of facilitating the issuance of bonds if
14 financing is needed after --
15 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
16 MR. NICHOLSON: -- a catastrophic
17 hurricane. The Directors of the Corporation
18 include the Governor, or his designee; the
19 Comptroller, or his designee; or the
20 Treasurer -- and the Treasurer and his
21 designee. In addition, the Director of the
22 Division of Bond Finance of the SBA,
23 Ben Watkins; and the Chief Operating Officer of
24 the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund, the
25 position which I hold.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
14
1 Further, the statute requires the issuance
2 of bonds by the corporation to be validated at
3 the Florida Supreme Court.
4 The Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund
5 Finance Corporation will allow us to effect --
6 effectively self register bonds, and be in a
7 position to respond quicker following a major --
8 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
9 MR. NICHOLSON: -- hurricane catastrophe,
10 and avoid unnecessary costs and expenses. The
11 bonds would only be issued if assets of the
12 Cat Fund are inadequate to pay claims. And as
13 Commissioner Nelson points out, that at year-end
14 1996, we anticipate having approximately
15 $1.4 billion in cash available to pay claims.
16 The purpose of this meeting is to conduct
17 an organizational meeting, and the agenda items
18 are laid out in the agenda that you have, Items
19 2A through F. These items help us to legally
20 set up the corporation, and to begin the
21 validation process.
22 They include the following: One, the
23 election of officers; two, the approval of the
24 Articles of Incorporation and the Bylaws, as
25 well as the corporate seal.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
15
1 We also ask that you approve a resolution
2 that authorizes the issuance of up to
3 $10 billion of bonds.
4 The resolution also approves a master trust
5 indenture, approves a pledge and security
6 agreement, and authorizes the validation of the
7 bonds.
8 It also -- also included in the minutes are
9 an -- is an item that directs the Secretary to
10 set out all actions in the minutes of the
11 corporation.
12 What we need is a motion to approve all
13 agenda items under Items 2A through F.
14 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Agenda Items
16 A, B, C, D, E, and F have been moved.
17 Is there discussion?
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The only comment
19 I'll make, Governor --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- is that I think
22 this process all is to be a model for efficiency
23 and effectiveness. They have really done a
24 terrific job in pulling this together, and I
25 second the motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
July 23, 1996
16
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that's very
2 true. I think they've done an outstanding job
3 on that.
4 All right. It's been moved and seconded.
5 Without objection A, B, C, D, E, and F are
6 approved.
7 MR. NICHOLSON: Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
9 There being no further business, is there a
10 motion to adjourn the meeting of the --
11 organizational meeting of the Florida Hurricane
12 Catastrophe Fund --
13 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
15 seconded.
16 And without objection, that's approved.
17 Meeting is adjourned.
18 MR. NICHOLSON: Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
20 (The State Board of Administration Florida
21 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund Finance Corporation
22 Agenda was concluded.)
23 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
July 23, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item 1 is approval of the
3 minutes of the July 9th meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, they're approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a resolution that
9 had previously been deferred, which authorizes
10 the use of unspent proceeds in the Facilities
11 Management Program for renovations to the
12 Knott Building.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a resolution
18 which does two things: It authorizes the
19 issuance of the 1996-97 fiscal year
20 appropriation for the PECO program; and
21 secondly, it authorizes the competitive --
22 issuance and competitive sale of 250 million of
23 the $450 million appropriation.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,
25 Governor.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
July 23, 1996
18
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. WATKINS: Item 4 is adoption of a
5 resolution authorizing the issuance of
6 thirteen million three hundred and eighty-five
7 thousand Board of Regents Student Housing
8 Facility Revenue Bonds for the renovation of two
9 student housing facilities at Florida State
10 University.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is adoption of
16 resolutions authorizing the negotiated sale of
17 several multifamily housing revenue bond issues
18 enumerated in Items (A) through (F) on behalf of
19 the Florida Housing Finance Agency.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move approval of
21 Items 5 (A) through (F), Governor.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
24 Items 5 (A) through (F).
25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
July 23, 1996
19
1 MR. WATKINS: Item number 6 is a report of
2 award of one million nine hundred and
3 eighty-five -- nine hundred and eighty thousand
4 Student Housing Facility Revenue Bonds on behalf
5 of the University of South Florida for the new
6 college campus. The bids were received on
7 July 2nd at Division of Bond Finance. We
8 accepted the low bid at a true interest cost
9 rate of 5.76 percent.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. WATKINS: Item number 7 is a report of
16 award of fourteen million five hundred thousand
17 Florida Housing Finance Agency transactions,
18 which were sold at a weekly variable interest
19 rate of 2.75 percent.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, that's approved.
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
July 23, 1996
20
1 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
2 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
July 23, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.
2 MR. FUCHS: Item 1 is a request for
3 approval of the minutes of the June 25th
4 meeting.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for
9 approval to file with Secretary of State
10 proposed amendments to child support enforcement
11 Rules 12E-1.004, and 12E-1.006.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. FUCHS: And with your permission,
17 Governor and members, today is the last Cabinet
18 meeting of Lorraine Dempsey Yeomans, who has
19 served the people of the State of Florida the
20 last ten years as a staff person in the House of
21 Representatives, an Assistant Attorney General,
22 and as the Legal Services -- excuse me --
23 Legal Staff Director for the Senate Finance and
24 Tax Committee prior to being Legislative and
25 Cabinet Affairs Director for the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
July 23, 1996
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1 Department of Revenue.
2 With your indulgence, could she please come
3 forward with a picture --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Certainly.
5 MR. FUCHS: -- for a picture?
6 Thank you.
7 She didn't know about this.
8 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
9 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
2 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
3 DR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles, Members of
4 the State Board of Education, good morning.
5 Item 1, proposed contract for the
6 administration, Florida Writing Assessment
7 Program for 1996 through 1999 to National
8 Computer Systems, Inc.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- before we go
16 forward, I'd just like to congratulate DOE
17 and -- and Commissioner Brogan and the staff for
18 a reduction and savings of $1.3 million.
19 I think that's pretty significant.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: It is significant.
21 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Secretary.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Item number 2, adoption of
24 High Priority Location Schools for 1996-1997.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
24
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 DR. BEDFORD: Item number 3, approval of
6 Division Directors for the Department of
7 Education. I'm very pleased to present for your
8 approval the four individuals who hold Division
9 Director status within the Department of
10 Education.
11 Today in our audience we have two of our
12 Division Directors, and I would like to have
13 them stand as I present them to you.
14 We have Mrs. Betty Coxe, Director of the
15 Division of Human Resource Development. And
16 with her, we have Dr. David Mosrie, Director of
17 the Division of Public Schools.
18 Absent today, and unable to be here,
19 Mr. David Rodriguez, Director of the Division of
20 Administration; and Mr. Joe Stephens, Director
21 of the Division of Applied Technology and Adult
22 Education.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval without
25 a picture, Governor.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
25
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
3 moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 DR. BEDFORD: Item number 4, adoption of
6 the Eleventh Supplemental Authorizing Resolution
7 to the Master Authorizing Resolution adopted
8 July 21st, 1992; and the Resolution authorizing
9 the Public Competitive Sale and Delivery of not
10 to exceed $250 million of State of Florida Full
11 Faith and Credit State Board of Education
12 Public Education Capital Outlay Bonds.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,
14 Governor.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 DR. BEDFORD: Number 5, approval of the
19 1996-97 College Outreach Program Funding.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, that's approved.
25 DR. BEDFORD: Item 6, approval of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
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1 guidelines for Innovative Practices Grants.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, that's approved.
6 DR. BEDFORD: Item 7 we wish to defer.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral.
8 DR. BEDFORD: Motion to --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on a
11 motion to defer.
12 And without objection, it's deferred.
13 DR. BEDFORD: Item 8, Rule 6A-1.09982,
14 Amendment: Reporting Requirements for School
15 Improvement and Accountability.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BEDFORD: Item 9, 10 --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Ah.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Whoops. Pardon.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
27
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- just on that
2 particular rule, I'd just like to ask the
3 Accountability Commission, and also DOE to work
4 towards individual student achievement, as
5 opposed to the masses. As a parent, I think
6 that parents are concerned about their
7 individual student; and hopefully, that's what
8 we would ultimately be working toward as well,
9 and I'm sure you are.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, ma'am.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
13 DR. BEDFORD: Items 9, 10, and 11 are
14 Division of Community Colleges.
15 Item 9, 6A-14.0247, Amendment: Powers and
16 Duties of the Board of Trustees.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BEDFORD: Item 10, 6A-14.0301,
22 Withdrawal and Forgiveness.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
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July 23, 1996
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 DR. BEDFORD: Item 11, Chapter 6A-14,
3 Repeals.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 DR. BEDFORD: Item 12, 13, 14 are items of
9 the State University System.
10 Item 12, 6C-6.0091, Repeal: Spoken English
11 Language Competence of Graduate Students
12 Involved in Classroom Instruction.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'll move
14 approval. And just to let you know, because it
15 may look a little ominous, that simply moves two
16 rules into one rule, covers undergraduate and
17 graduate instructors in one rule instead of the
18 two that it used to.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 DR. BEDFORD: Item 13, 6C-ER96-1, an
23 Emergency Rule: Tuition, Fee Schedule, and
24 Percentage of Cost.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 DR. BEDFORD: Item 14, 6C-7.001,
5 Amendment: Tuition, Fee Schedule, and
6 Percentage of Cost.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. BEDFORD: Item 15, Appointment and
12 Reappointment to the Manatee Community District
13 Board of Trustees.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 DR. BEDFORD: Item 16, a good cause item:
19 Florida System of School Improvement and
20 Accountability. Here representing the
21 Accountability Commission, Senator Phil Lewis.
22 SENATOR LEWIS: Good morning, Governor.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning, sir.
24 SENATOR LEWIS: Members of the Cabinet,
25 it's a pleasure to be here.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
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1 I think you all have a copy of the
2 Florida's System of Schools and Improvement and
3 Accountability for 1996. And we are pleased to
4 present it to you for approval, with this one
5 caveat: We have -- the Commission hasn't seen
6 the final draft. And I just -- I don't think --
7 everything we've seen --
8 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
9 SENATOR LEWIS: -- so far is substantively
10 correct. And I'd just like to have them take a
11 shot at it, because they've got the last say.
12 A year ago, we completed the assessment
13 design for the Commission, and for the State
14 Board of Education. And we would like -- we are
15 just going to report to you that the items for
16 assessment in the Florida Criterion Reference
17 Test are being worked out now.
18 This past year, the Department of Education
19 has worked on the implementation plan by
20 revising the curriculum frameworks, including
21 the Sunshine State Standards, and letting
22 contract and develop new assessments.
23 And I compliment the Commissioner of
24 Education and the work he and his staff have
25 done. And also want to compliment the
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1 Commissioner on taking the courageous decision
2 on the critically low schools. We all know what
3 happened when that hit the --
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Fan.
5 SENATOR LEWIS: -- fan. That's the -- I'm
6 glad you said that.
7 And -- however, the results have been very
8 good. People are working very hard to get off
9 of the list. And hopefully that list will
10 narrow itself down over the years and will raise
11 the standards. And I think it's been the first
12 move, and it was one that a lot of people were
13 critical of.
14 But I think, first of all, the Commissioner
15 was carrying out the law; secondly, the
16 Commission results are going to be very good.
17 And it's with your support and help that this is
18 coming into fruition.
19 What you have before you is a design of the
20 system of school improvement accountability as
21 required by statute. The statute required the
22 design to be completed by the year 2000.
23 Thus, the design has been completed by the
24 Commission four years early, including the
25 important part involving the stakeholders.
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1 There is a tremendous amount of work left
2 to be done in the development of the various
3 components, as well as the training to bring
4 about full implementation. There are many
5 issues before the Commission at this time,
6 including exit standards and use of high school
7 competency tests; performance based budgeting,
8 as it relates to accountability; and other
9 oversight responsibilities.
10 And I'll just parenthetically say here:
11 From what I've been -- I've listened to what a
12 performance based budgeting is. And if you've
13 had five explanations, you've had five different
14 explanations. So by the time we'd get it all
15 fully implemented, we'd have a train wreck the
16 likes you have never seen. However, that is,
17 I think, going to be narrowed down over the next
18 few months.
19 But one of the things that I noted in my --
20 one of the explanations, which I think is going
21 to come into play, and that is performance based
22 budgeting is going to be tied to performance
23 based education, in particular, the K-12 system,
24 and they're going to tie money to it. I can
25 almost count on that.
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1 And so if you haven't heard it,
2 Commissioner, and members of the Cabinet, you
3 will soon. I just learned about it myself.
4 Other areas of -- need attention, the
5 postsecondary is creating a K-- pre-K through
6 the university, a continuum of education that
7 gets fully involved in the system.
8 We can no longer afford in this state, or
9 any other state, for each one of the segments of
10 education to take off like Roman candles all by
11 themselves, and not have -- looking at one
12 another. The teachers come out of higher
13 education in some state. The -- and go back
14 into the system.
15 I personally have a very strong involvement
16 in that, and hopefully I see that the
17 postsecondary people are beginning to understand
18 that they are going to be involved in the K-12
19 system. And I think the Commissioner, and
20 everyone else, is -- so far has shown an
21 interest in that, and we hope if they don't show
22 an interest in it, they will soon.
23 Now that I'm on the Board of Regents,
24 hopefully that will even cause them to have more
25 attention over the next few months.
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1 The Commission will -- in October, will
2 present its annual report, including the
3 feedback on the Department's implementation
4 efforts. Dr. Biance, who is on vacation
5 currently, or he'd be up here -- by -- was
6 invited by the Education Commission of the
7 states to present a topic of sustaining systemic
8 reform.
9 We are an elite group here in Florida, as
10 we are entering our sixth year. And now you're
11 beginning to see the fruits of our labor. When
12 you go outside the state, other states are
13 beginning to look at what Florida is doing.
14 If you remember, in the early days when
15 this started, the reform and accountability, we
16 only heard about Kentucky. They jumped into the
17 program, they jumped ahead too fast, and didn't
18 do what Florida was doing. And that was
19 methodically begin to plot out where this was
20 going.
21 And I'm no educator by any -- by a long
22 shot. But I think we've done it right.
23 As a matter of fact, Dr. Biance in one of
24 his talks over in New Orleans, the chap from
25 Kentucky interrupted and said, don't do as we
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1 did, we're having to redo, and do as Florida is
2 doing.
3 It's hard work; it's tough; it's -- it's
4 methodical; it's boring; and yet for those of us
5 in it, it's very exciting. I see great things
6 happening in the future. And I'm glad to be a
7 part of it.
8 In closing, I just want to tell you that
9 the Accountability Commission is still working
10 hard. They will continue to work hard.
11 And I want to thank again the staff of the
12 Commissioner for working to get this report in.
13 And if there's any major changes after the
14 Commission looks at this, we'll bring it back to
15 you, but I don't suspect there will be any. And
16 we want to get this into the hands of the
17 teachers and out in the local schools for the
18 1996-97 year.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much for
21 your report. And we congratulate the
22 Commissioner. We're delighted to see that we
23 have now put out -- formalized this process. It
24 is ahead of time, which is also great.
25 And I think the difference between Florida
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July 23, 1996
36
1 and Kentucky primarily is Kentucky did have a
2 unique opportunity when the courts threw out
3 their funding system. But they sort of
4 squandered that opportunity when they had a
5 top-down approach. And they thought they were
6 doing it right, but they had to -- all the
7 directives came from the Capitol, and they did
8 not go out and buy in any kind of help from
9 teachers, parents, school boards, others.
10 And I, again, congratulate the
11 Accountability Commission for all those hearings
12 you held, and continue to hold -- I know that
13 that was not easy. But I think we did have more
14 of a buy-in. And when we came out with our
15 report, it was something that basically an awful
16 lot of people had bought into. And so I think
17 that's -- attribute that to the success.
18 The other thing I would say, what you're
19 talking about on performance based budgeting,
20 everybody wants to see that, nobody knows how
21 the hell to do it. It's the most difficult
22 thing in the world.
23 And again, using the kind of approach that
24 y'all have of, again, getting a buy-in would be
25 very, very important in doing that. If we had
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1 the best idea and we directed it all from here,
2 it probably will not work.
3 It's again going and holding a lot of
4 meetings, letting a lot of people express
5 themselves, and letting a lot of people begin to
6 understand what we're talking about, that we are
7 talking about tying this to an individual
8 student's performance. So mom and pop know that
9 the dollar -- their taxpayers' dollar is being
10 spent properly, efficiently, effectively,
11 honestly, all of those things is what we're
12 looking for; as opposed to some bureaucratic
13 follow line items and everything else.
14 So, again, easy to talk about, very
15 difficult to do. But I can't think of any
16 organization better prepared to try to help us
17 do this, because of your previous experience and
18 your track record, than the
19 Accountability Commission.
20 SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Governor.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'll move
22 this item.
23 But I would be remiss if -- if we didn't
24 also take the opportunity to thank the
25 Accountability Commission's answer to Stanley
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
July 23, 1996
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1 the Panther, and that -- that's Senator
2 Phil Lewis. He -- he has been great, not only
3 with the Accountability Commission, but we also
4 applaude your wisdom in his appointment to the
5 Board of Regents.
6 He's going to provide for us, I think, a
7 very important link: Legislature, pre-K-12,
8 Community Colleges, State University System,
9 because he's got such a long and illustrious
10 track record dealing with all of those that's
11 very unusual, in this, or any other state -- and
12 I put this in quotes -- from a layman's
13 perspective. And I only mean that by saying, he
14 is not an educator, self espoused, and proud of
15 it, I think.
16 SENATOR LEWIS: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: But -- but he does
18 bring to bear a very important list of
19 credentials that will bring to us that kind of
20 experience.
21 So we thank you for that appointment to the
22 BOR, and we also thank Senator Lewis for his
23 continued efforts on behalf of the teachers and
24 children of the State of Florida. We appreciate
25 it very much.
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July 23, 1996
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1 SENATOR LEWIS: Thank you, Commissioner.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Picture?
3 SENATOR LEWIS: Oh, no. I put you through
4 that already.
5 Thank you.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: The report has been moved
8 and seconded.
9 Without objection, the report is adopted.
10 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
11 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
12 concluded.)
13 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
July 23, 1996
40
1 GOVERNOR CHILES:
2 Administration Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, recommend
4 approval of the minutes of the meetings held
5 June 13; June 20; and June 25, 1996.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- second in regard to
11 the minutes.
12 Without objection, they're approved.
13 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend
14 approval of the transfer of general revenue
15 appropriations in the Department of Agriculture
16 and Consumer Services.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, that's approved.
21 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, recommend the
22 approval of the transfer of general revenue
23 appropriations, and -- under Items A, B, and C
24 in the Department of Health and Rehabilitative
25 Services.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, move
2 Items 3 A, B, and C.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Motion is on
5 items A, B, and C.
6 And without objection, that's approved.
7 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 4, recommend the
8 approval of the transfer of general revenue
9 appropriations in the Department of Juvenile
10 Justice.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 5, recommend the
17 approval of the transfer of general revenue
18 appropriations under items A and B in the
19 Department of State.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 6, Governor, is
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1 recommended that we take up later after the
2 Trustees agenda. That's the Lee County --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
4 (The Administration Commissioner Agenda was
5 continued.)
6 *
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FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
July 23, 1996
43
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of July 9, 1996,
5 Commission meeting.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, minutes are approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2 is request
11 approval of the proposed final rule establishing
12 the Fiddler's Creek Community Development
13 District. We have some folks here available if
14 you want to --
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, request
22 acceptance of the June 30, 1996, report on the
23 status of the Save Our Everglades Program.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, that's approved.
3 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
4 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
5 *
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July 23, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Governor and Trustees, if I
3 could first introduce to you our new
4 General Counsel for DEP, Mr. Perry Odom.
5 If Perry'll just stand up, because you'll
6 be seeing a lot of him now.
7 Item 1, an option agreement for Belle Meade
8 CARL project, and a waiver of survey.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2 is an option
16 agreement for Belle Meade CARL project.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, that's approved.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 are ten purchase
22 agreements for Belle Meade CARL projects, and a
23 waiver of survey.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, that's approved.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4 is an option
4 agreement for Belle Meade CARL project.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, that's approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 5, purchase agreements
10 for Save Our Everglades CARL project, and a
11 waiver of survey.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, that's approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 6, two option
17 agreements for Tate's Hell Carrabelle CARL
18 project.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, that's approved.
23 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7, an option agreement
24 for Spruce Creek CARL project.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8, an option agreement
5 for the Chassahowitzka Wildlife Management Area.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, that's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9, a modification of
12 deed restrictions on Watson Island.
13 We have some speakers, Governor. If I can
14 call on first Steve Uhlfelder, representing the
15 applicant.
16 And following him will be Vice Mayor
17 Willy Gort, Commissioner Joe Carollo, and
18 Senator Ron Silver.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Which one is
20 Steve Uhlfelder, and which one --
21 TREASURER NELSON: You're getting yourself
22 all adorned these days, aren't you?
23 MR. UHLFELDER: He's going to tell us the
24 percentage. They guaranteed me that this was
25 potty trained.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They just
2 fed him.
3 MR. UHLFELDER: It's a pleasure to be here
4 representing the City of Miami. I'm with
5 Holland & Knight, we represent the City. And
6 today we have with us a number of City
7 officials.
8 I don't think this is going to work.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Cheap suit.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Better hope
11 it's a cheap suit.
12 MR. UHLFELDER: The -- we have --
13 TREASURER NELSON: It's the most lucid
14 presentation you've ever made.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: We're going to know
16 whether you're telling the truth or not because
17 of the bird.
18 MR. UHLFELDER: The -- I asked the bird
19 before I could get up here whether he was a
20 Democrat or Republican; he said, depending on
21 the issue.
22 But we have with us today the Vice Mayor,
23 Willy Gort; Commissioner Joe Carollo;
24 Commissioner J.L. Plummer; the head of Planning,
25 Jack Luft; Ron Silver with the -- the head of
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1 the Dade delegation; William Talbert, who's the
2 CEO of the Miami Convention Bureau; Mr. and
3 Mrs. Bernie Levine, CEO, Parrot Jungle, whose
4 bird this belongs to.
5 In 1945, this is what Watson Island looked
6 like; this is what the Watson Island looks like
7 today; and this is what the Watson Island would
8 look like with about 1,000 parrots like this,
9 and all -- the $25 million that will be put in
10 this -- this development.
11 We've spent about six months negotiating
12 with the City of Miami and the State to enter
13 into agreements so we can get a deed restriction
14 of about 18 acres. There was voter approval of
15 this project in November of 1995, with over
16 60 percent of the voters approving this
17 project. There'll be over $500,000 in State
18 sales tax coming to you as a result of this
19 project.
20 We've had three appraisals done on this
21 project, and it shows that what we negotiated,
22 the amount that we believe is reasonable, and we
23 believe that what the City is asking for at
24 7.5 percent supports those appraisals.
25 We negotiated this amount of 15, and the
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1 City requested an amount of 7.5, and the
2 Commissioners are here today to support their
3 position.
4 We believe because the economic development
5 and the tourism are being enhanced by this
6 project, that we believe you should support the
7 City's position.
8 Because the proposed attraction is
9 principally a garden, and has a low tax value,
10 the property tax returned to the City will be
11 less than the costs providing municipal
12 services. They're putting a substantial amount
13 of capital improvements in this area.
14 I would like now to turn over to the
15 commissioners to talk about the economic
16 development and to the -- the additional impact
17 this will have on the community, and answer any
18 questions at the end of that.
19 The first person is Vice Mayor Willy Gort.
20 MR. GORT: Thank you.
21 Good morning, Governor, members of the
22 Cabinet --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
24 MR. GORT: -- surely you are aware that the
25 City of Miami was said to be the poorest -- one
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1 of the fourth poorest city in the
2 United States. Certainly the most poorest city
3 in the state of Florida.
4 We tried to turn that around two years ago,
5 and we made a commitment to our residents that
6 we would change that around.
7 One of the first things we did, we -- we
8 deal with the budget. We are here to reduce the
9 budget by $36 million, and we requested our
10 employees to perform a lot better and to do a
11 lot more.
12 At the same time, we made a commitment that
13 we're going to turn -- maximize the revenues
14 from the public land, and that's what's -- a lot
15 of the RFP went out.
16 Just to give you an idea of the economic
17 impact that this will have, this proposed
18 Parrot Jungle will create 200 permanent jobs,
19 will create 500 jobs during construction,
20 provide environmental education programs to the
21 inner city school children, return attraction,
22 Florida will pay in excess of $500,000 annually
23 in sales tax.
24 Pay other taxes annually, 3 -- 3 percent in
25 property tax out of gross revenues;
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1 two-and-a-half percent in local food and
2 beverage taxes that helps the homeless, and
3 others; 7 in payroll taxes. Almost 20 percent
4 of the gross revenues will go into paying taxes,
5 federal, county, and state.
6 This project cost around $25 million for
7 the next five years, which will be additional
8 jobs and income taxes will be paid from.
9 As you were told before, we took this to
10 the electors, and they approved it by 60 percent
11 with a 28 percent turnout.
12 So, therefore, I respectfully request the
13 waiver of the deed restriction on Watson Island
14 at 75 -- 7.5 percent payment made to the
15 State of Florida.
16 Thank you very much.
17 Now I'd like to call on
18 Commissioner Plummer.
19 MR. PLUMMER: Governor, Members of the
20 Cabinet, I would like to take a second of your
21 time as Chairman of the City of Miami Centennial
22 to invite all of you Sunday to come down for the
23 world's largest birthday party. If you're in
24 the area, we'd love to have you as our guest at
25 that celebration.
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1 I come here today to tell you that
2 sometimes five years is a short period of time;
3 and other times, it's an awful long time. Five
4 years ago when the Parrot Jungle decided that
5 they were going to move, I talked to Dr. Levine,
6 and we had three locations pretty well laid out
7 in the City of Miami.
8 Finally came to a referendum last November
9 in which the people of the City of Miami decided
10 that 25 to $27 million privately financed would
11 be a tremendous asset for our community.
12 No one thing is the hub or the wheel. As
13 you know, we have many, many improvements that
14 we're looking at, and the Watson Island
15 Parrot Jungle and Botanical Gardens will fit
16 right into that picture.
17 With the expansion of the port; with your
18 help, the new arena; the performing arts; the
19 opera house, all of those are very, very vital
20 things for the redevelopment of our downtown
21 area.
22 They are looking presently at the present
23 attraction of where -- about 50/50, 50 percent
24 visitors, 50 percent local. They're looking
25 forward in three years to going to
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1 550,000 people, and an aspect of 60/40,
2 60 percent visitors, 40 percent of local people.
3 We beg your help in this matter. We feel
4 it is crucial, it is very important to our
5 community. And I just thank you very much for
6 allowing us to be here today. We're not
7 violating the Sunshine Law nor the Moonshine
8 Law, we've all signed the necessary pledges.
9 Thank you very much.
10 MR. UHLFELDER: I would like to call on the
11 head of the Dade delegation, Senator Silver.
12 SENATOR SILVER: Governor, and members of
13 the Cabinet, it's a pleasure to appear before
14 you.
15 It's a little odd for me to do this. In
16 18 years I've been in the Legislature, this is
17 the first time I have -- have done this.
18 Actually, it's the the second time,
19 because, as you saw, I was with Stanley Panther
20 before, and that was my first appearance before
21 you.
22 I certainly appreciate -- this gives me an
23 opportunity to extend my appreciation for the
24 kind remarks, Commissioner Crawford, that you
25 gave to me before. I just want to thank you so
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1 much for that, recognizing my bigness and
2 greatness.
3 This is a very important issue to those of
4 us in Dade County.
5 It represents something that we all are
6 proud of. And I'm here to tell you today, as
7 Chairman of the Dade County Legislative
8 Delegation, that not one single member of this
9 delegation objects to this proposal that is
10 before you today, that those of us who represent
11 the people of Dade County in the legislative
12 process are all unanimously behind this
13 proposal.
14 We do that for many reasons. But the
15 biggest one I think is because of the economic
16 development aspect of this.
17 The attraction that we can provide to
18 people who visit our area, who come to our area,
19 for various reasons, this gives them another
20 opportunity. And it's a tremendous educational
21 experience.
22 The Parrot Jungle before this move was
23 located in my district, and it will be located
24 in my district after this move. I am very proud
25 to have it. As we went through the hurricane
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1 process, we know that severe problems occurred
2 to Dade County. And this Cabinet, this
3 Legislature, has been absolutely outstanding in
4 every regard as far as getting us back on the
5 track.
6 I believe that this addition, this addition
7 will put us in the right direction. There's a
8 lot more that we can do, there's a lot more we
9 want to do. And the fact that the Dade
10 delegation has come together on an issue -- as
11 you know, those of you who served in the
12 Legislature, and it's very difficult to get the
13 Dade delegation to agree on almost anything.
14 Well, they're in agreement on this particular
15 issue.
16 So I would urge you, on that basis, to try
17 and accede to the proposal that is before you.
18 I think it's a win-win, it's a win for the State
19 of Florida. I think additional revenues are
20 going to be coming into the state, and it
21 certainly would be a win for the people of
22 Dade County.
23 Thank you very much.
24 MR. UHLFELDER: Last speaker, and I'll be
25 glad to answer any questions.
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1 But before that, the Mayor-to-be,
2 Joe Carollo.
3 MR. CAROLLO: Governor, Honorable Members
4 of the Cabinet, thank you for the opportunity
5 that you've extended to us today in making this
6 presentation on behalf of Miami.
7 Since 1949, the City of Miami has expended
8 over $10 million to the improvement of
9 Watson Island, along with a commitment that we
10 have of spending an additional seven-and-a-half
11 million for additional improvements on
12 Watson Island. It's a total of
13 seventeen-and-a-half million dollars.
14 The only return that the citizens of Miami
15 will receive monetary will be the monetary
16 returns that we'll receive from this project
17 since that time. At the same time, the State of
18 Florida will be receiving in excess of half a
19 million dollars a year in annual sales tax
20 revenues.
21 As you heard one of my colleagues state
22 before, Miami is the fourth poorest city in the
23 country. There is no other city in the state of
24 Florida, I may say, that needs this money more
25 than Miami.
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1 We hope that in this centennial year, the
2 year that Miami becomes 100 years old, that we
3 will start changing that, so instead of being
4 the fourth poorest city in the country, maybe we
5 could become one of the wealthiest cities so we
6 could contribute more to our great state.
7 But in this centennial year, I cannot think
8 of a better birthday present that you could give
9 to us in Miami than to vote for us in this
10 request that we've made.
11 Having said that, I would also like to
12 extend to all of you that you come to Miami this
13 weekend, an invitation to celebrate with us the
14 largest birthday party that there will be in the
15 state of Florida.
16 Thank you very much.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
18 MR. UHLFELDER: That concludes our
19 presentation. I want to let you know, this
20 parrot behaved a lot better than that panther.
21 So --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah. You haven't looked
23 at the back of your coat yet.
24 MR. UHLFELDER: Not -- I was anticipating
25 that. I borrowed a partner's jacket today.
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1 So --
2 TREASURER NELSON: At least he's wearing a
3 dark jacket.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Those are all the
5 speakers. And unless you would like to hear
6 from Mr. Mallison as to why we recommended
7 15 percent --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I -- what is the
9 proposal that's before us?
10 MS. WETHERELL: Proposal before you in the
11 item --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: And I'd like to hear from
13 Mr. Mallison.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Pete?
15 MR. MALLISON: Good morning, Governor, and
16 Cabinet.
17 The Secretary did ask me to kind of recap
18 for you how we got to where we are. And I
19 would, of course, begin with the deed to the
20 City, which was given to them by the Board of
21 Trustees back in the late 1940s.
22 At the time that the property was conveyed
23 to the City, it was conveyed with use
24 restrictions on the property, it was given to
25 them for virtually no consideration so that it
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1 could be used for public and municipal purposes.
2 And the deed contains specific language in
3 it that specifically provides that it may not be
4 leased to any private citizen, corporation, or
5 entity that the -- being that the purpose of the
6 original dedication to the City was for
7 municipal and public purposes.
8 Consequently, when the City approached us
9 six to eight months ago originally asking for a
10 relaxation, or waiver of the deed restrictions
11 so that they could lease this property to
12 Parrot Jungle, which clearly is a private
13 entity, we began our discussions with the City.
14 And it was our feeling that there were
15 certainly -- as the City has said today -- that
16 there are certainly some public benefits to be
17 derived from the construction of this tourist
18 attraction on the island. But, on the other
19 hand, that it was clearly also inconsistent with
20 the restrictions under which the property had
21 been conveyed to the City.
22 I can tell you that nearly from the
23 beginning, the City has agreed that it would be
24 appropriate to compensate the Board of Trustees
25 in some fashion for the modification of these
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1 deed restrictions.
2 However, before we began our negotiations
3 with the City over what an appropriate
4 compensation should be, we felt that we needed
5 to have an appraisal done on the property so
6 that we could see what its value was.
7 The City was gracious enough to agree to
8 pay for that appraisal. We obtained an
9 appraisal. We asked the appraiser to tell us
10 what the value of the property was put to its
11 highest and best use as a tourist attraction.
12 The appraiser estimated the value of the
13 land at three-and-a-half million dollars. He
14 then told us that it would be reasonable to
15 expect that a landlord would receive a base rent
16 for that property of approximately 10 percent of
17 that number, or $350,000 a year.
18 He also indicated to us that it would be
19 reasonable to expect a landlord of property on
20 which this sort of operation will be
21 constructed, to negotiate a lease with the
22 lessee, which would also include a return on
23 things such as ticket -- ticket sales; retail
24 sales; and banquet and restaurant income, which
25 are expected to be generated by this operation.
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1 And recommended to us through the appraisal
2 a range of percentages of those numbers that you
3 would expect to negotiate within.
4 Consequently, we began our negotiations
5 with the City, suggesting that it would be
6 appropriate for the State to receive in
7 recognition of the fact that this was not given
8 to them for a profit making venture, that it
9 would be appropriate for the State to receive
10 some portion of these revenues.
11 I believe that the offer that we were
12 making to the City several months ago was in the
13 neighborhood of 25 percent of the numbers, as I
14 have indicated.
15 The City came back -- or at least the
16 City's agent, and the City staff members that we
17 were dealing with, came back, and suggested that
18 if we would be agreeable to 15 percent, that
19 they would agree to that.
20 So in recognition that this is an important
21 public project in Miami, we said we would agree
22 to that.
23 And it was at that point apparently that
24 the -- this deal was taken to the
25 City Commission, at which point they apparently
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1 did not agree with their staff position on
2 15 percent.
3 So we are here now, as you know, with
4 somewhat of an impasse, our position being that
5 we believe that 15 percent is a reasonable
6 figure; the City, of course, asking for
7 seven-and-a-half percent.
8 I would just mention to you that the --
9 whatever proceeds are derived from this
10 agreement with the City would be deposited into
11 the Internal Improvement Trust Fund, which is
12 the Trust Fund that supports your staff, being
13 my Division of State Lands, as well as other
14 staff within the department who are charged with
15 the administration and oversight of the
16 3 million or so acres that are titled in your
17 name.
18 So I would just mention that as well.
19 And I would be glad to answer any questions
20 if --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I just think it's
22 interesting that the City Commission, which it
23 was certainly within their prerogatives and
24 responsibilities and duties, decided that
25 15 percent was too much, and so they thought it
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1 should be seven-and-a-half.
2 I will just point out that your Board has
3 not agreed to your 15 percent figure yet, and
4 I think it may be too low. So, you know, we may
5 have some more negotiations that we're doing
6 here.
7 Go ahead.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Well, Governor, I come
9 at it from a different approach. I wonder, what
10 is the public policy with regard to the
11 protection of the state. You all clearly have
12 done your job as the Division of State Lands, in
13 protecting the public interest and the State's
14 interest here.
15 Has the State expended any money with
16 regard to Watson Island? Clearly the City has
17 since the 1940s. Has the State?
18 MS. WETHERELL: Do you know that answer?
19 MR. MALLISON: I can tell you that in terms
20 of every day maintenance, and those kinds of
21 things, that it is not my under-- we certainly
22 haven't expended any money, Commissioner.
23 I would say that I believe that there is a
24 public road, a State road, that runs across the
25 island. Now, I would assume that DOT is
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1 providing some maintenance for that road.
2 But, again, I guess my response to that
3 would be that the property was given to the
4 City, and obviously it is theirs to maintain.
5 But, again, it was given to them for the
6 specific purposes of municipal purposes. So we
7 would expect that they would maintain it for
8 those purposes.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Well, in terms of global
10 affairs, we're only talking about a $30,000
11 difference here. But to get to what the
12 equities are, the Miami Herald has editorialized
13 that the State initially asked for 50 percent.
14 Could you tell me if that's true; and if
15 so, why?
16 MR. MALLISON: That is true, Commissioner.
17 And that was our beginning offer in the
18 negotiations.
19 I think that we went into the negotiations
20 hoping that we would end up somewhere in the 15
21 to 25 percent range. And obviously, we did not
22 want to begin with what our bottom line was. So
23 we threw out an initial offer of 50 percent.
24 Now, I think that there is some
25 justification for that. I think that the Board
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1 of Trustees in the past has considered requests
2 by the City to release deed restrictions on this
3 very -- within the same deed, for other City
4 projects.
5 And, in fact, the last time that that was
6 before this Board, the Board insisted that
7 100 percent of the revenue that the City derived
8 from the conversion of another part of this deed
9 to private uses would go into a special trust
10 fund that was intended to compensate the local
11 citizens for the conversion of that land.
12 So there's an instance where this Board
13 insisted that 100 percent of the City's revenues
14 on the property be earmarked, if you will, for
15 projects that this Board said they ought to be
16 earmarked for.
17 So we believe that the Board's past
18 practice had suggested that they thought that
19 some significant portion of that. But, on the
20 other hand, we'd never started with 100 percent,
21 because we understood that this is a project
22 with a lot of local benefits.
23 The City obviously is the one who's going
24 to have to be responsible for the day-to-day
25 oversight and management of this, and we did not
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1 believe that 100 percent was an appropriate
2 number.
3 So we did begin with a suggestion of
4 50 percent. But, again, it was an opening
5 position, and certainly not one that we expected
6 to end up at.
7 TREASURER NELSON: It's sort of interesting
8 how we will argue over minor matters of $30,000
9 per year. But it seems to me that the principle
10 here is that if Miami's taxpayers have
11 maintained this for years, that they ought to be
12 the ones that have the -- the primary benefits
13 coming from the revenue. And that's my --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
15 TREASURER NELSON: -- position, Governor.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- I would certainly
17 agree with that.
18 I also think that the discussion here is
19 not whether we're going to try to second-guess
20 the Commission as to what the purpose is, and
21 that while the State did give this land in the
22 '40s, again, with little or no compensation, as
23 I understand, we have Bayfront, which we've
24 also, in effect, provided for small compensation
25 goes.
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1 But it seems like to me, the 15 percent
2 that we're going to get is going to help the
3 citizens of Dade County and the citizens all
4 over Florida.
5 Because that helps us to be able to
6 administer the funds that we're talking about.
7 And if you all will remember, the Legislature
8 doesn't provide much funding. And we're
9 constantly finding that the Trustees do not have
10 sufficient funds to try to look after how you
11 protect the public's right.
12 So we're talking about how are we going to
13 help the citizens of Dade County the most? Are
14 we going to help them by cutting
15 seven-and-a-half percent, or are we going to
16 have a viable Trustees -- what is more critical
17 lands than Dade County and south Florida and the
18 area down there?
19 So, to me, we're talking about negotiation
20 here. We're not talking about second-guessing a
21 committee -- the Commission. We're not talking
22 about whether we're going to allow the private
23 use of what was a public facility -- a public
24 purpose.
25 It certainly is going to bring tourism
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1 there, it's going to bring a lot of other people
2 to there. And if that's the Commission's
3 judgment, I don't want to second-guess that.
4 But if the City Commission has decided
5 that, hell, let's just get seven-and-a-half --
6 pay them seven-and-a-half percent, they could
7 have said zero, you know, and we could have been
8 up here.
9 After negotiations have gone along at
10 15 percent, and as I say, I think you could have
11 good reason as to why we're paying 15. It is
12 the principle of the thing, I think. And I
13 think they are being a little piggy, to tell you
14 the truth. And I think that 15 percent would be
15 a fairer deal. And that's what I would like to
16 see us do.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I -- I think
18 part of this is a turf fight that you used to
19 teach me a lot about up in Washington as my
20 senior senator, about which agency was going to
21 get the revenue.
22 The fact is, this project is going to
23 benefit the State of Florida quite a bit,
24 because they're estimating that the income that
25 comes into the coffers of the State of Florida
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1 is going to increase fivefold, from about
2 $100,000 sales tax, to about 500,000.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
4 TREASURER NELSON: So clearly the
5 State of Florida's going to benefit. But that
6 revenue's not going into DEP, it's coming into
7 the general revenue of the state.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's right.
9 TREASURER NELSON: So it's a turf fight,
10 isn't it?
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sure.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I
13 may --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- jump into the
16 fray. We are dancing a little bit on the head
17 of a pin here, as --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: --
20 Commissioner Nelson pointed out.
21 But we don't have a -- really a very good
22 track record in this state in terms of economic
23 development, and promoting economic
24 development. Granted, we are trying to change
25 that, and there have been some recent actions
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1 that will strengthen it.
2 And it appears to me that we are poking in
3 the eye a little bit here the opportunity for
4 Miami and Dade County to really build and
5 strengthen the development of that area.
6 And, again, it is dancing on the head of a
7 pin, but it is a principle. And I take a
8 slightly different view of that principle, than
9 perhaps you do. And I certainly would argue for
10 lesser than the 15 percent. And, in fact, I
11 probably might even strike for zero. But
12 I think we could probably live with --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Commission may meet
14 again.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- we probably could
16 strike the -- at the seven-and-a-half.
17 And I would make a motion to that effect,
18 that we consider reducing that 15 percent to
19 seven-and-a-half percent.
20 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's been moved and
22 seconded.
23 Is there further discussion?
24 Many as favor the motion, signify by saying
25 aye.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no?
4 No.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion carries.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Item 10 is a status report
8 on the Bayside Center. And we have speaker,
9 Toby Brigham, representing the property owners
10 of the Barnacle.
11 MR. BRIGHAM: Good morning, Your Honors.
12 I have a status report as to the
13 Commodore Bay tract of land. It was about
14 eleven years ago today when a similar request
15 from the City of Miami came to have the State
16 release its restrictions on the Bayfront Park of
17 Miami to build the Bayside Commercial Center.
18 And at that time, the agreement was that
19 seven-and-a-half percent, or 7.4 percent of the
20 revenues from that rental to that commercial
21 enterprise, would go into a trust fund to
22 acquire the Commodore Bay tract, which was owned
23 by my three clients: Howard Scharlin and
24 Ken Treister and Jerry Katcher.
25 At that time, the owners, in order to use
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1 the property, not to sell it or increase the
2 price for the acquisition, were seeking to have
3 the property rezoned from its 1936 single family
4 zoning, to the same uses that existed in central
5 Coconut Grove, which was a mixed use development
6 that would open up the property to the bay with
7 an esplanade with boutique shops on the first
8 level, and residential on the top level.
9 During -- the Miami Herald approved that
10 rezoning; the Planning Commission approved that
11 rezoning; and at first reading, the
12 City Commission approved that zoning.
13 And then the agreement was struck with the
14 State to acquire the property as a replacement
15 for the bayfront property that the State had
16 released. And it was provided that the City
17 would set this property -- the acquisition of
18 this property as its first priority to acquire,
19 and the State would put it on the CARL list and
20 fund it.
21 The State would pay half, the City would
22 pay half. And if the City didn't have its half,
23 the State would pay all of it, and the State
24 would then recoup the money by the revenues from
25 the Bayside marketplace.
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1 The owners' zoning was denied.
2 Commissioner Carollo said: You know, it seems
3 to me that if we want to buy that land, we
4 cannot afford to rezone it now.
5 And they can --
6 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
7 MR. BRIGHAM: -- grow bananas on it. We
8 filed a suit for judicial review, as anyone
9 would do. It took the courts a long time. The
10 City won that. We did not get the rezoning.
11 But in eleven years, the City has done
12 nothing to proceed to acquire the property, and
13 the Trustees have not done anything in
14 eleven years to replace the asset that they gave
15 to the City of Miami, and we wish to give that
16 status report. I have it here.
17 We have checked recent sales that have
18 occurred around the rim of Biscayne Bay that are
19 single family zoning. And we find that their
20 prices reflect now that this property is worth
21 12 to $14 million.
22 Had it been acquired when the State thought
23 the City should do so, had the City been
24 forthcoming to try to acquire it from the
25 owners, the price would have been much less.
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1 So the assets of the public trust of the
2 Trustees of the Internal Improvement Fund have
3 suffered a loss on account of it.
4 We have now filed --
5 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
6 MR. BRIGHAM: -- or we have instituted a
7 court proceeding here in Leon County between
8 these owners and the state, hoping that that
9 would serve as a vehicle to resolve this
10 matter. And that through Court ordered
11 mediation, much like with the tobacco industry,
12 the State might choose to have a Court ordered
13 mediation with these owners, and agree on a fair
14 price.
15 And if we cannot agree on a fair price,
16 then have a jury determine a fair price
17 according to fact and law. And then have the
18 City proceed to pay its share of that.
19 And if I may, I would submit this written
20 report, together with that sales map, for
21 Your Honors as a status report on that project.
22 MS. WETHERELL: I'll take it.
23 MR. BRIGHAM: Thank you.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move that we
25 accept the report, Governor.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 The -- motion that we accept the report.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?
5 Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Governor, if I can, I think
8 he mentioned, but I just wanted to make sure
9 that the Trustees were aware that the owners of
10 the property have filed a suit in Leon County
11 Circuit Court in order to compel the Board of
12 Trustees to acquire the property.
13 And my understanding is that the Attorney
14 General's Office has moved to dismiss it, and
15 right now that action is pending.
16 Okay.
17 That property is on the CARL list. I
18 wanted you to be aware that we did put the
19 property on the list as we agreed to do.
20 Item 11 is a settlement agreement for
21 Yamato Scrub CARL project.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Item 12, a submerged land
2 lease for an industrial docking facility.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, that's approved.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 13, we're
8 recommending denial on a conceptual approval for
9 a submerged land lease, and for severance.
10 Governor, there are nine speakers who wish
11 to make a presentation. I'll introduce first
12 Buddy Jacobs, representing the applicant --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Have we got some time
14 constraints?
15 MS. WETHERELL: Would you like to put so
16 much time per side?
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Fifteen minutes per side,
19 what would you prefer?
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that would be
21 fine.
22 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Plenty.
24 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. I'm going to call on
25 Buddy Jacobs first representing the applicant.
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1 He says he has some slides and a short video.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a little glare.
3 MR. JACOBS: She wouldn't loan me the bird
4 as a hat. He said I couldn't use --
5 I just want to be sure. We -- everybody
6 can see the screen and the TV and the -- okay.
7 Good morning, Governor, and members of the
8 Cabinet. It's my privilege here -- to be here
9 today really, and at my age, I'm just glad to be
10 anywhere. But certainly this is a good place to
11 be for us today.
12 We're very excited in Nassau County to have
13 an opportunity for 500 new jobs, and they're
14 very high paying jobs, with a very good company.
15 Let me first tell you what we're going to
16 do. With your indulgence, we're going to show
17 you a slide show about -- very quick, brief
18 overview of the site itself. Then we'll have a
19 very brief film about the company that's going
20 to come to this particular area, and then I just
21 have a few remarks at the end.
22 First let me tell you that the Navy has
23 established, as you -- as I'm sure you're aware,
24 a program where they want to have the people of
25 the ships stay with the ships in the time
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1 they're in dry dock. When they go out to sea
2 and then come back sometimes during the year,
3 they're separated from their families for
4 ten months or more.
5 So they want to have, in Mayport in
6 particular, and all Navy ships, to be serviced
7 and dry-docked within a reasonable range of that
8 particular facility so that the people can live
9 at home during the time they're in dry dock.
10 And this is -- I think it's a very good program
11 on their behalf.
12 Our company, Metro Machine Corporation, has
13 been in about -- for almost two years now,
14 looking for a site within 75 miles of the
15 Mayport area so that they could service the
16 cruisers that are in port there that work with
17 the aircraft carriers out of there.
18 Now, they've explored sites in
19 Jacksonville, St. Augustine, some in Clay County
20 even, in trying to find this location.
21 After a lot of due diligence, they come
22 before you today with a site located in
23 Nassau County.
24 Metro Machine Corporation services only
25 Navy ships. They have facilities in Chester,
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1 Philadelphia, they have them in Norfolk, and
2 also in Erie, Pennsylvania.
3 They have about 1500 employees. It is an
4 employee owned company. They've received awards
5 really from U.S. EPA for their type of work that
6 they do.
7 This company does -- has a new procedure
8 that's patented called the CAPE system. And
9 we'll have a brief film about that. But just
10 let me tell you briefly what it does.
11 It allows no air, water, or noise pollution
12 at -- at any time during the -- the time the
13 ship's in the dry dock while they're working on
14 the hull because this system is an
15 air conditioned, heated building that moves
16 around the ship -- and you'll that -- during
17 this time. It's excellent for the employees, as
18 well as for anybody around.
19 First I'd like to introduce to you
20 Jim Corbett, who owns Nassau Fertilizer, and he
21 has a brief presentation to show you the site,
22 and then we'll talk about that in just a minute.
23 Jim.
24 MR. CORBETT: Hopefully you can see this
25 pretty good.
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1 And if it's necessary for me to step up to
2 the mike, just say so.
3 Going to start on the south end of our
4 property and move out toward Amelia River. And
5 then head north up to Amelia River to the
6 proximity of Fort Clinch State Park.
7 This is on the southern end of the
8 property. You can see the sea wall --
9 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
10 MR. CORBETT: -- and some of the old
11 fishing vessels that we've used through the
12 years. Our company was started in 1911.
13 And I got a slide hung up.
14 Some more good slides you can see.
15 The company started -- our company started
16 in 1911. We were one of three separate fish
17 plants that was on this site. The other two
18 were owned by larger conglomerations that when
19 the fish began to die out in this area in the
20 late '60s and early '70s, they packed their bags
21 and went to one of their other locations.
22 We were a small, independent. We didn't
23 have anywhere to go, so we stayed and acquired
24 the property of all the other fish plants there.
25 This is one of the docks. We're moving up
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1 to Amelia River now, heading northward toward
2 the Fort Clinch State Park.
3 Prior to the fish plants being at this
4 location, there was a lumber mill back in the
5 late 1800s and early 1900s. It took the pine
6 trees that are now used in the paper industry,
7 made them into lumber, and exported them all
8 over the world.
9 This is one of the other docks that we've
10 renovated.
11 This dock is the site where we used to
12 unload foreign vessels, bringing in fish meal
13 from South America. We started this in the mid
14 to early '60s, continued it for several years.
15 If I'm going too fast, say so, please.
16 You can see a small railway we used to pull
17 our first boats that we used to set our nets out
18 of the water into that shed to work on them
19 during our off-season.
20 I think it's also important to note that
21 Fort Clinch State Park became a part of our
22 community in 1936, which was a full quarter of a
23 century after the fish plants were already in
24 existence.
25 As we move up on the north end of our
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1 property, you could see some barges, and a
2 sunken dredge. The dredge is the one that looks
3 like it's got a smokestack or a chimney on top
4 of it.
5 This came to Fernandina as part of the
6 dredging of the St. Mary's River channel. And
7 it sunk, and it was removed, placed in this site
8 in 1988. It was then sold to another salvage
9 company that went bankrupt trying to literally
10 remove it.
11 And we're left with this dredge here, as
12 well as several barges. And you'll be able to
13 see a little closer.
14 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
15 MR. CORBETT: The barges are full of the
16 styrofoam that was used to raise the dredge.
17 They had a crane barge come along, and literally
18 dig the styrofoam out, put it in these barges.
19 When the company went bankrupt, they pushed the
20 barges up on the bank.
21 You might notice some of the growth on the
22 barges, give you an indication of how long
23 they've been there.
24 That's a crane barge that was pushed up in
25 that area about three years ago, maybe four, and
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1 I guess the owner of that barge thought that was
2 a good place to put it. But it certainly isn't.
3 This is looking back down. We turned the
4 boat around, and we're moving back toward the
5 southern end.
6 Now, I'd like to make just a couple other
7 points. In 1970, the State created the
8 Fort Clinch State Park Aquatic Preserve. Now,
9 we, as adjacent property owners, were never
10 given any notification that this was going --
11 ready to take place. Nor were we given any
12 notification that it had taken place.
13 It wasn't until 1985 that we had our first
14 opportunity to speak to this matter, and that
15 was when the State came to Fernandina seeking
16 input for the management plan for their State
17 park that they created 15 years earlier.
18 It was at that time that we had the
19 opportunity to ask intelligent questions, like,
20 what is an aquatic preserve; what is it doing in
21 front of our historically commercial and
22 industrial place of business. And we were told
23 that Fort Clinch State Park Aquatic Preserve was
24 created as an esthetic buffer around the
25 Fort Clinch State Park.
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1 And certainly we have no problem with the
2 State creating an aquatic preserve around the
3 State's property.
4 Where we do have a problem is when the
5 State arbitrarily extended the boundaries of
6 that aquatic preserve past the boundaries of the
7 State park, in front of our place of business,
8 as well as another privately owned place of
9 business between us and the State park.
10 Now, it's been suggested to you that you
11 deny this permit because of the inconsistencies
12 and the fact that this program is contrary to
13 the Fort Clinch State Park Aquatic Preserve
14 Management Plan.
15 Well, I would like to, as a representative
16 of Nassau Fertilizer, suggest to you that the
17 fact that there is an aquatic preserve in front
18 of our place of business is contrary to, and
19 inconsistent with what aquatic preserves were
20 created for to begin with.
21 And certainly to be more specific in the
22 case of the Fort Clinch State Park Aquatic
23 Preserve, the fact that it was -- these
24 boundaries were extended beyond the boundaries
25 of the State park would be contrary to, and
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1 inconsistent with that also.
2 Thank you very much.
3 MR. JACOBS: Let me -- if I might, walk
4 over here, and I think I can talk loud enough
5 where y'all can see -- give you more of an
6 overview of where we are.
7 This -- these -- this is an aerial
8 photograph of the area we're talking about
9 here. And if you're at a State -- and the State
10 park begins where my finger is, and that's about
11 10 acres away from Nassau Fertilizer. And it
12 goes way around and up to where Fort Clinch is.
13 If you start -- if you were standing -- and
14 we've done this with the staff of DEP. If
15 you're standing at the campgrounds of the
16 Fort Clinch State Park, if you're standing at
17 the campground, you'd be right at this area --
18 I'm sorry -- right in this area here, you cannot
19 see Nassau Fertilizer right now, and you would
20 not be able to see our activity that we will do
21 there.
22 We have a photograph here -- not a
23 photograph -- but a drawing that shows you --
24 this is done by Reynolds, Smith, and Hill
25 that -- from that point, which is the furtherest
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1 point out on the beach there at the State park,
2 you can see Container Corporation, but you won't
3 be able to see us or the masts of any -- of
4 these ships that will be in the dry dock.
5 You come on around from the fertilizer
6 company, you'd have a boat yard here where they
7 make steel hulled boats; you have a marina;
8 there's a private dock; but then you have
9 Container Corporation, which is a very large
10 paper mill, right in this area. You can see
11 that -- you can see the smokestack and
12 everything from the State park, but you can't
13 see us.
14 Coming around, here's Port at Fernandina.
15 We have been proudly so -- we have 300 ship
16 movements a year, of ships that will be larger
17 than the ships we'll be servicing. We're only
18 going to have at most ten ship movements a year,
19 because they bring the ship in, it stays, and it
20 leaves the dry dock.
21 But we have now 300 ships that come through
22 here -- or 300 movements that come through here
23 every year.
24 So you have the Port at Fernandina. Then
25 you have -- commercial fishing fleet is here.
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1 Then Fernandina Harbor -- Marina is right here,
2 and then Rayonier. You can also see Rayonier
3 from the park site.
4 So the issue is --
5 She says I only have 2 minutes left.
6 Governor, we have a film that shows you the
7 dry dock at -- and its operation in Philadelphia
8 that shows you that there is no pollution to the
9 air, no pollution to the water. If -- I've only
10 got 2 minutes left.
11 But I guess that would take up all the
12 time, because it's about a 6-minute film, 6 or
13 7 minute film.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, can you just show
15 us a little bit of it?
16 MR. JACOBS: All right, sir.
17 And, Governor, while you're -- while we're
18 getting ready for that, too, we have some
19 statements to make about the impacts and what we
20 can do to mitigate those. And we'd just like to
21 get that in the record.
22 We've actually cut our presentation in
23 half. So --
24 (The videotape was published.)
25 ANNOUNCER: -- most important, coating
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1 quality is improved by controlling dust,
2 temperature, and humidity in the enclosure.
3 CAPE has sufficient freedom of motion to
4 permit full and efficient worker access to a
5 ship's hull. And also has the capability of
6 containing and processing abrasive glass dust,
7 spent and contaminated abrasive, paint-over
8 spray, and VOCs, thereby virtually eliminating
9 the qualities of these materials which are
10 released to contaminate shipyard surroundings.
11 CAPE at the same time provides a much more
12 efficient means to collect, dispose of, recycle,
13 and process contaminated abrasive and paint
14 residue, and significantly reduces the
15 disruption of the concurrent shipboard repair
16 work, all while decreasing dry dock utilization
17 times and ship out of service times.
18 For cleaning and/or painting the exterior
19 of the ship hull --
20 (The videotape publication was ceased.)
21 MR. JACOBS: I just wanted you to see that
22 it does work, and we are -- we are utilizing it,
23 and it's -- it is -- there's no pollution to the
24 air, water, and there's no noise pollution.
25 What I would submit to you is we recognize
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1 this is an aesthetic aquatic preserve, not a
2 biological nor a scientific aquatic preserve,
3 there is a distinction. This is the only
4 aquatic preserve of which I'm aware that there
5 is written into that particular aquatic
6 preserve, the recognition that there is
7 Mr. Corbett's property there, that there is an
8 ongoing commercial activity there, and the State
9 will not discourage the expansion of that
10 particular activity. He in the current time has
11 ships there that are -- that come in and get
12 repaired, he has storage there on the site.
13 We will clean the entire site up that's
14 there today. We will take the riprap that's
15 from that site, and we will go around to
16 Fort Clinch, and we will virtually stabilize
17 what's happening to Fort Clinch now. It's about
18 to fall into the river. It's of tremendous
19 importance to the State that we do that.
20 We will put 150,000 cubic yards of material
21 at that site, we will engineer and stabilize the
22 site with the existing materials that we have
23 there, and there are plenty of them, riprap and
24 docks and all kinds of things that make good
25 core utilization for beach -- retention of the
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1 beach sand there at Fort Clinch.
2 Fort Clinch is about to fall in the ocean,
3 as I say. It's suffering from the absence of
4 subjacent lateral support, which means it's on a
5 cliff, and that shore has got to be stabilized.
6 We work on that constantly.
7 We will also -- you know, since this is an
8 aquatic preserve, and it falls down in front of
9 us, we have to -- we have to pay more than
10 anybody else has to pay. You have to pay two,
11 maybe three times, depends on what you
12 negotiate, for that material -- and for that
13 land lease that we have there.
14 So we're going to be paying for that. We
15 also agree to pay over the life of this
16 contract, which we expect to be about
17 20 years -- it's five years with rights of
18 renewal -- we will pay $35,000 more a year,
19 which is virtually $750,000 more than we have to
20 pay for this particular land lease.
21 We will also build a 2-acre park on this
22 site with a boat ramp, and the -- other activity
23 of things there for this -- for mitigation there
24 for the citizens of Nassau County. We will deed
25 that boat ramp when we pie the property, which
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1 we're allowed to do in the tenth year of our
2 lease with Mr. Corbett. We'll deed it to the
3 citizens of Nassau County.
4 We have agreed to do these things, and we
5 think that this is in the public interest to,
6 number one, bring us 500 jobs in Nassau County
7 where we sorely need them, and these are good
8 paying jobs.
9 Number two, we're supporting the Navy.
10 Because -- I know you'll here discussion there
11 might be other sites. We've looked and looked
12 and looked, and we'd rather be in another site
13 from the company standpoint, without having to
14 go through this aquatic preserve exercise. We
15 don't think there is one.
16 All we want to do is get the conceptual
17 approval from you for a land lease. Conceptual
18 approval. This has to come back to you, you
19 have another shot at us. We just need this to
20 move forward to bid in the process.
21 There's some discussion this is not an
22 urgent thing. You have received from the
23 Department of Navy as of yesterday a letter that
24 says this -- there is urgency, and that we must
25 move forward, if you would allow us to do so.
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1 Governor, I've tried to honor your
2 time frame. I don't know if I've been as good
3 as I should have been. And I --
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you --
5 MR. JACOBS: -- any questions, I'd be glad
6 to answer.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just one
8 question, Buddy.
9 When must this actual -- when is the RFP
10 due, or --
11 MR. JACOBS: Our indications -- and the
12 letter from the Navy, if I might just -- that
13 might be the best way to say this to you. Just
14 read you the letter from the Navy.
15 Got it here somewhere --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is it due
17 next week, or is it due in October? I mean --
18 MR. JACOBS: No. It's -- our problem is is
19 that because you don't have a -- if you had a
20 Cabinet meeting in August, we wouldn't be here
21 today.
22 But we've started since the first of May to
23 get this conceptual approval. We met with all
24 the staff people that we could, and
25 Secretary Wetherell's office and staff have been
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1 great to us. I mean, they have really worked
2 hard, I think, and done what they could do.
3 But we've met with everybody, and had a
4 pre-application session, we've laid out from
5 what we were going to be doing. And everybody,
6 I think's, worked as hard as they can.
7 But the Navy says, and this is what they
8 say: We are currently working very hard to
9 solicit a five-year Navy ship maintenance
10 contract for the repair of about a dozen
11 cruisers and destroyers home port in Mayport,
12 Florida.
13 We are behind our solicitation schedule
14 presented at industry briefings with potential
15 contractors in the spring of this year.
16 Continued slips will jeopardize the start of
17 this contract. The request of Metro Machine,
18 and any other potential bidder, in connection
19 with this contract, is a matter of urgency and
20 importance to us to get this maintenance
21 contract established.
22 They have -- it's our understanding that
23 they have -- this has got to be available to
24 them by April of next year. Your permitting
25 process is six months, our construction process
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1 is eight months. We're already in a deep hole,
2 no pun intended, in order to get there.
3 So I submit to you that it is a problem.
4 But, again, we're seeking only conceptual
5 approval. We don't -- you don't finalize this
6 until it comes back to you in its written land
7 lease form.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, is the
9 Navy going to put it out for bid, or are they
10 just going to --
11 MR. JACOBS: They're going to put it out
12 for bid, but, General Butterworth, nobody else
13 has applied. And other people -- there's an
14 article in the Jacksonville paper on the
15 11th of July, and it talks about the
16 Jacksonville north Florida shipyards, and
17 that -- another one, Jacksonville shipyards --
18 they say the Jacksonville shipyard site is not
19 available to us for this project. Another one,
20 a north Florida shipyard and repair says they
21 wouldn't use -- they can't use their site.
22 We've looked for appropriate sites, and
23 believe me, Metro Machine out of Norfolk,
24 Virginia, would love to go somewhere else, if
25 that's possible. They don't think it is.
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1 And as a matter of fact, the Port of
2 Jacksonville referred them to a realtor to help
3 them find a site, and they couldn't find one.
4 Worked about six months on it.
5 So it's been long coming. And we're not
6 trying to -- you know, we just need conceptual
7 approval is all we need.
8 Okay.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Can I answer -- try to
10 answer the General's question as well?
11 MR. JACOBS: Yeah. Let me get out of your
12 way --
13 MS. WETHERELL: We spoke with the Navy
14 yesterday, and we've been told that they intend
15 in the next three to four weeks to put out an
16 RFP, and that RFP will be on the streets for
17 about 45 days.
18 So we would be back before you in early
19 September before they even close out their RFP.
20 We've also been told that there are several
21 other applicants who are interested, but because
22 of the Navy's time line, and because of the
23 permitting requirements of the State, were
24 afraid they could not reach it.
25 So that was another option I was going to
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1 put before you today. There are some speakers
2 here that I need to recognize in a minute. But
3 there are some other applicants that we have
4 discussed. The fact that if we could expedite
5 permitting, keep a level playing field for every
6 one of the applicants, we could possibly come up
7 with a different site.
8 And that is, you know, something that --
9 that we would like to see considered, given the
10 fact that we're going to have a very difficult
11 time being able to meet State law and State
12 rules for this particular site.
13 You see the site, and we would love to have
14 the site cleaned up. It looks -- it's an
15 horrendous looking site. But the problems are
16 within the aquatic preserve, not the upland.
17 The upland is not in the aquatic preserve.
18 We're talking about the water; and the amount of
19 dredging and the impacts to the shoreline; and
20 the conflict with Board of Trustees policies;
21 the conflict with the State Lands Management
22 Plan; the conflict with the Parks Management
23 Plan; and the conflict with Florida law,
24 Chapter 258; and the rules.
25 So we have a lot of hurdles to get over
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1 with this particular site.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask a
3 question?
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir. At some stage
5 we need to hear the other speakers. But go
6 ahead.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I can defer.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Maybe --
9 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. If I can --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Maybe we'll get a chance
11 for your question after we hear the speakers.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I wanted -- I
14 would like Mr. Jacobs to clear up the fact of
15 potential other sites.
16 It was my understanding in reading this
17 particular letter from the U.S. Navy, what you
18 just read, that they are basically saying that
19 if they can't get in the Mayport vicinity a
20 floating dry dock facility for these cruisers
21 and destroyers, that conceivably, they -- the
22 only place left would be down there where the
23 big carrier is at Mayport, and that would
24 displace 10,000 jobs. Is my understanding of
25 what the Navy --
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1 MR. JACOBS: That is --
2 TREASURER NELSON: -- is saying. Is that
3 correct?
4 MR. JACOBS: That is correct. This is
5 their policy, they believe in it, they want to
6 have the people stay close to their homes during
7 this dry dock experience.
8 And so they want it within 75 miles. Now,
9 I know that -- and they're -- they're moving
10 that direction. Now, if they can't get this
11 site -- if there other sites out there, that's
12 fine.
13 None of them -- none of those people have
14 come forward to seek permits. Everybody knows
15 that -- that the thing's out there. They've had
16 a briefing back in the spring with the Navy.
17 There's constant, everyday dialogue going on,
18 and nobody's stepped forward.
19 I don't -- I think as we move forward, this
20 aquatic preserve is certainly -- it is, quote,
21 unquote an aesthetic aquatic preserve.
22 You noted the barges and the dredge that
23 are seated in the middle of that aquatic
24 preserve, they've been there for eight years.
25 And the water washes over them every day and
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1 puts that styrofoam up on the beach and all
2 around, and nobody from the State's gone out and
3 said, gosh, this is terrible, we need to do
4 something about it.
5 We're going to clean all that up. Get rid
6 of those barges, get rid of those -- the
7 dredge. And the dredge is not even if -- our
8 footprint. We're going to get rid of the dredge
9 anyway, as part of our -- in the public interest
10 effort.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I just want to
12 make one observation. I went to see this site
13 last Friday. And what struck me is the fact
14 that there is a 55 foot deep channel that is
15 about 50 feet off of the shore.
16 So what you're talking about dredging is
17 not what I picture as an aquatic preserve that
18 is this long, lowly lot of sea grasses and very
19 shallow waters. You've got this deep channel
20 that's coming right up almost next to the shore,
21 which is what the -- they would then further dig
22 out and have where this floating dry dock would
23 come in there to do this repair.
24 So I just want to give you that observation
25 for whatever it's worth.
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1 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: We better move on --
3 MR. JACOBS: All right, sir.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to hear from some
5 other people.
6 MR. JACOBS: Thank you.
7 I guess I won't get another chance. Okay.
8 Thank you.
9 MS. WETHERELL: For time sake, let me go
10 ahead and call up the five individuals,
11 Jay Yarnell, Joan Altman, Julie Altman,
12 Erwin Duncan, and John Glenn.
13 MR. YARNELL: Good morning. My name is
14 Jay Yarnell. I'm a resident of the City of
15 Fernandina Beach. I'm a registered professional
16 engineer in the state of Florida, in fact,
17 owning my own company in Fernandina Beach, which
18 depends heavily upon industry. I sell currently
19 equipment to industry, I sell equipment to these
20 ships that are being repaired.
21 It's in my best interest to have this
22 facility to come to Florida, and I hope that it
23 does come to Florida. But the problem I have in
24 speaking -- well, I don't have a problem, I'm
25 glad to speak in opposition -- is because they
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1 picked the worst possible site that they could
2 pick.
3 I sent a fax to y'all's offices outlining a
4 number of items, and I've brought some backup
5 material to that. I'd like to real quickly just
6 kind of run through those in that first I
7 agree -- and the people who I speak with in the
8 city -- not the City in the government sense,
9 the residents of the city.
10 -- we agree emphatically with the DEP's
11 findings. This site is entirely within an
12 aquatic preserve. One major concern that I
13 have, and that has been expressed to me also by
14 others in the community is if this project's
15 approved, even conceptually, it's going to set a
16 precedent.
17 And then anybody that wants to build
18 anything in any sort of aquatic preserve, State
19 park, or conservation area, is going to be able
20 to point to it, and say, you have to let me
21 build my lumber mill, you have to let me build
22 my -- put my junkyard in here, whatever they
23 want to do.
24 You let this big facility go in to that
25 aquatic preserve, and now you've broken the
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1 trust of taking care of this land, and you must
2 let us come in and do what we want to do.
3 There are a number of issues, I'll try to
4 be real brief. The City of Fernandina Beach
5 right now is in a crisis almost over growth
6 management. You may have seen last summer the
7 article of the Florida Wall Street Journal
8 concerning the growing pains we're going through
9 trying to come to grips with what the rest of
10 Florida came to about ten years ago.
11 In the area of transportation, our roads on
12 the island and in the city are in a crisis.
13 State Road A1A between I-95 and Amelia Island,
14 which would be the main access for these
15 supposed 500 jobs coming in, is above -- exceeds
16 its level of service, and is currently the
17 subject of intense FLDOT study.
18 Eighth Street and Fourteenth Streets in the
19 city are the only roads that go from the access
20 to the island up to this area. Both of those
21 streets have exceeded their level of service by
22 the 1995 DOT traffic counts.
23 The site of this facility will require that
24 hazardous waste to be removed from the site
25 would be transported through our residential
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1 neighborhoods to get them off of the island.
2 The -- there'll be other speakers to speak
3 how this project abuts the area of Old Town,
4 which an historical residential district. It's
5 the third oldest settlement in Florida, and the
6 last Spanish plat in the western hemisphere that
7 is still in the original plat.
8 And by putting this project, which is
9 completely out of scale with the other items
10 that are in the -- developments that are in this
11 area, the imminent enhancement the City has
12 planned for this area would just be completely
13 brought to a halt.
14 The project abuts the historic Fort Clinch,
15 and it also abuts Fort St. Carlos Archeological
16 site.
17 In this packet that I've brought, I've also
18 brought backup from the Department of Interior,
19 and from the Department of Natural Resources,
20 whenever it existed, showing that this is a
21 critical manatee habitat area. The entire area
22 around the exit of Egans Creek; Tiger Island,
23 which is a little island out off of the shore;
24 and Egans Creek itself.
25 I live on Egans Creek, and I personally
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1 observe manatees as far up as where A1A crosses
2 Egans Creek.
3 In the interest of time, I'll step aside
4 and let the other speakers speak. And if you'd
5 like this backup information, I can leave it
6 with whoever needs it.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
8 MR. YARNELL: Thank you.
9 MS. JOAN ALTMAN: Governor Chiles and
10 Cabinet, my name's Joan Altman. And I live in
11 Old Town. I'm a Chair for the grass roots group
12 environmental -- I'm the Chair of FATE, which
13 means Fernandina's -- no. Friends of
14 Amelia Island's Threatened Environment.
15 As chair of the grass roots group of
16 environmentally conscientious people, we
17 think -- thank you for this opportunity to
18 express our concerns and reservations in regard
19 to this proposed facility.
20 We have no lobbyist, we don't even know the
21 DEP staff by their first names. We are only
22 here to support DEP's recommendation for denial,
23 because we have recognized the strength this
24 project carries, and can relate to the
25 environment -- environment's inability to speak
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1 out for its survival.
2 The City has a current moratorium for
3 bidding service being provided to noncity
4 users. The decision to annex the entire island
5 into the City goes to referendum in
6 November '96.
7 If, in fact, this area is annexed, the
8 dry dock facility will be in violation of our
9 comp plan. Objective V (B)05,
10 policy V (B)05.01: Marinas and ports shall not
11 be located in or adjacent to Department of
12 Natural Resources manatee designated sanction
13 areas, and areas of essential manatee habitat,
14 foraging areas in or adjacent to aquatic
15 preserves, and Class water II -- Class II
16 waters.
17 The storage of toxic materials, and a
18 100-year flood plan is a violation of FEMA law,
19 and the City's comp plan, Objective 1.02.
20 The ecosystem in Egans Creek basin is very
21 fragile, and plays a very important role in the
22 ocean's food chain, as all marshlands do on a
23 barrier island.
24 Before the extensive dredging for this
25 project is considered, and it is extensive, it's
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1 half the size of the channel that was dredged
2 for the nearby submarine base.
3 A hydrological computer model showing the
4 possible consequence of this dredge could be
5 most informative. This could alleviate the fear
6 that if extensive erosion occurs because of this
7 activity, maintenance dredging may be required,
8 and the effective waters would become -- could
9 possibly become barren of most sea life, and
10 possibly affect the surrounding marshlands.
11 We are not experts, and, therefore, cannot
12 prove our concerns are justified. But neither
13 can the experts guarantee that our environment
14 is not at risk.
15 There are many implications regarding this
16 facility at this site. We must be determined
17 if -- we must determine is: Does the -- having
18 this dry dock at this location justify the
19 costs, economically, and environmentally.
20 Will Fort Clinch be a haven for animals and
21 people alike, with the lights and noise of such
22 a 24-hour a day operation?
23 Will the manatee have to find another route
24 through the channel to its foraging area.
25 Will Tiger Island, with its undocumented
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1 archaeological sites, erode into the river?
2 And will the local crabber be able to hold
3 on to his livelihood until the dredging is
4 complete, and the crabs come back; if, in fact,
5 they ever do.
6 Will the installation of sewers and water
7 to this location in any way disturb Egans Creek
8 basin?
9 And will the City allow toxic waste to
10 transgress our streets.
11 Wouldn't it make more sense to put this
12 project in an area with other dry docks, perhaps
13 even Blount Island, where the impact has already
14 occurred.
15 Maybe the State could help Mr. Corbett find
16 another use for his property, as lucrative as
17 this one, but more conducive to the environment.
18 We agree with the Department of
19 Environmental Protection's recommendation to
20 deny, and plead with you to give this careful
21 consideration. What you decide here today will
22 affect all parks, aquatic preserves, and
23 conservation areas for future generations.
24 Thank you.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
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1 MR. DUNCAN: Governor Chiles and Cabinet
2 members, my name is Erwin Duncan. I represent
3 the Nassau County Sierra Club. I thank you for
4 the opportunity to speak.
5 The existing facility at this location was
6 grandfathered when the aquatic preserve was
7 created. It was not excluded, it was
8 grandfathered.
9 Because of the depletion of the menhaden
10 fish and the menhaden industry has ceased to
11 operate as such many years ago. Even if this
12 site had been excluded from the preserve, the
13 possible impact this proposed dry dock could
14 have on nearby preserve would cause reason for
15 debate.
16 On May 22nd, 1990, the City of
17 Fernandina Beach received a letter from the
18 Department of Natural Resources describing a
19 green line that had developed around
20 Fort Clinch. This line represents a peripheral
21 zone around the park, within which new
22 activities may have an impact on resources
23 associated with this unit of the Florida park
24 system.
25 It is based on resource concerns such as
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1 hydrology, wildlife population, and the
2 aesthetic quality of the recreation of this
3 site.
4 One of the list of concerned was Item 6,
5 named Buffer, which states: Buffer zones are
6 necessary around State park lands to a
7 particular site against potentially incompatible
8 adjacent land uses, or enhance the experience of
9 park visitors.
10 Adjoining properties, which are partially
11 or entirely surrounded by a park are of
12 particular concern.
13 In addition to such tracts, a zone of
14 varying width that rings the park is further
15 designated as buffer. If nearby properties have
16 already undergone development, proposed changes
17 in land use would yet concern the Division of
18 Recreation and Parks, since other uses might
19 have a more profound effect on those -- than
20 those that have the current utilization. The
21 Agency should be advised of any proposed change
22 that would affect these areas.
23 The placing of this facility at the
24 proposed site would be a violation of Florida
25 statute, Florida codes, FEMA law, and possibly
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1 our City Comprehensive Land Management Plan.
2 Perhaps there's a better use of this property.
3 One which would be totally dedicated to the
4 public interest. May we suggest that the
5 property be purchased by the trust for public
6 lands and become a part of the State park.
7 Mr. Corbett has expressed concern for the
8 remaining employees for whom he has felt
9 responsible. Perhaps they could be hired by the
10 Park Service to develop and maintain this area.
11 Department of Environmental Protection has
12 listed more than enough legal reasons for this
13 project to be denied. We agree with their
14 findings, and urge you to deny this permit.
15 Thank you.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
17 MS. JULIE ALTMAN: My name is Julie Altman,
18 and I am a citizen of Old Town/Fernandina
19 Beach -- or Fernandina rather, which is
20 approximately 600 feet from the proposed
21 facility, and is part of the Fernandina Beach
22 historic district. It is the third oldest city
23 in Florida, and the last settlement to be
24 platted by the Spanish in the western
25 hemisphere, and the only Spanish settlement with
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1 its grid still intact.
2 On the bluff of the Amelia River,
3 Plaza San Carlos is the site of the
4 Fort San Carlos and Fort San Fernando. This
5 side is part of the Fort Clinch State Park.
6 During the first three decades of the
7 19th Century, Old Town was the busiest port in
8 North America, and the most important shipping
9 trade station for the entire western hemisphere.
10 After Thomas Jefferson lowered the boom on
11 international trade and domestic ports with the
12 1807 Embargo Act, Old Town, totally under
13 Spanish rule, proposed by -- prospered --
14 excuse me -- by opening its port to legal and
15 illegal world traders. Over 400 ships a day
16 sailed into Fernandina Harbor.
17 The ban on slave importation in 1808 made
18 Old Town/Fernandina a gold mine for smuggling
19 African and Caribbean slaves into Florida and
20 throughout the United States.
21 A population of 800, even after the
22 Civil War, would have made Old Town the largest
23 city in the south.
24 Finally, in 1990, Old Town/Fernandina was
25 placed on the National Register of Historic
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1 Places. And the City of Fernandina Beach is in
2 the process of rehabilitating and restoring --
3 restoration of this area.
4 Reenactments were started on the plaza
5 two years ago, and public interest has
6 increased.
7 This proposed dry dock facility would
8 preclude the implementation -- excuse me -- the
9 enhancement that the City has planned for the
10 Old -- for Old Town.
11 The noise and lights from the proposed
12 facility would destroy any ambiance that the
13 historic recognition is attempting to preserve,
14 discourage any new residential building in this
15 area, and negatively impact tourism in Old Town.
16 The property value would, therefore,
17 decrease, and my bed and breakfast could
18 possibly be forced to close.
19 According to the National Register of
20 Historic Places, Federal funding will not
21 support any project which threatens the
22 existence of any site on the National Register.
23 Please deny this permit, as it has the
24 potential to inhibit the preservation and
25 restoration of Old Town.
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1 Thank you.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
3 MR. GLENN: Governor Chiles, members of the
4 Cabinet, appreciate the opportunity that
5 remains.
6 My name is John Glenn. I am here
7 representing a public interest group called the
8 Taxpayers Protection Committee. We were formed
9 in 1990-91 season to combat an unwarranted raid
10 on the -- on the assets of the people of
11 Fernandina Beach and Nassau County in the guise
12 of a community redevelopment area.
13 The scheme started out at 11 percent of the
14 tax base, and finally the City imposed upon its
15 citizens a seven-and-a-half percent of the tax
16 base, Tax Increment Financing Area.
17 We had time, and we had the wherewithal in
18 that situation, because we could go to the
19 voters with a petition, which we did. And we
20 were able to overcome an ill-advised move by the
21 elected representatives. We overcame it in two
22 ways. We passed a charter change that limited
23 tax increment financing areas to 2 percent of
24 the tax base. And we also unelected two
25 incumbent commissioners.
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1 We don't have that power nor that time nor
2 that mechanism in this case. You are the only
3 people that vote on this.
4 The fact that it's here in the first place,
5 being fast tracked, makes it impossible for the
6 citizens of Fernandina Beach, Amelia Island,
7 Nassau County to give any kind of a proper
8 response to the things that you've been hearing,
9 the things you've been reading.
10 But I urge you to listen very, very closely
11 to your Secretary Wetherell, and notice that
12 you're getting information that just came in
13 yesterday, and information that just came in
14 today. And to do anything about this would be a
15 very hasty door opener, a nose under the tent,
16 and a sure thing to be further expanded, and
17 that the assurance is given to you today
18 verbally, not under oath, without any kind of
19 proof. We're going to have a hard time proving
20 to you that they have -- could not be lived up
21 to.
22 And so I urge you to support your agency
23 and deny this. And tell them to look a little
24 more strongly under the circumstances that there
25 are places available, whether it takes a little
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1 more looking.
2 Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
4 MS. WETHERELL: That concludes the
5 speakers.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I appreciate the
9 testimony on all sides of the issue. We've
10 talked about this a great deal, as I'm sure all
11 of you have with your staff members as well.
12 I did so based on the belief that there was
13 a particular urgency regarding a vote on this
14 issue, either for or against, and I believe
15 everyone came to the table today, including the
16 speakers, working under that proposition.
17 This is, obviously, a more complicated
18 issue than it appears to be at first blush. I
19 think the CAPE system that we saw today, and
20 that I've looked at, is a most intriguing and
21 interesting approach to an old, old dilemma, and
22 that is how to repair and refit ships without
23 causing harm to the environment. And it looks
24 very interesting in that regard.
25 There are also some siting issues that
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1 we've heard about today, as well as some
2 statutory issues that the Secretary, I think,
3 has expressed some concern over regarding the
4 RFP, and other people's opportunity to make
5 their claim to such an RFP known.
6 The mitigation requirements that I've seen
7 in the -- in the process give me some pause as
8 well. I think that there may be some excessive
9 requirements in the mitigation information.
10 All in all, and knowing what I believe I
11 know now, which is the timing that the
12 United States Navy is really making available
13 regarding the RFP, the Secretary's concerns
14 regarding statute, the site issues, as well as
15 some of the -- the issues that we've heard
16 expressed by the citizens, as nonelegant as this
17 may be, I personally would like to have some
18 more time to consider this, that I didn't know I
19 was going to have made available based on the
20 time I thought I was working with.
21 So, again, as anticlimatic as it may
22 appear, I'd like to see this issue deferred.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I second
24 that.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I think by doing
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1 that, that would give us some time to continue
2 to discuss it, still give the vendor the
3 opportunity to meet the Navy's RFP response,
4 which I think is important to them, in deference
5 to them. But I think give all of us an
6 opportunity to catch our collective breath and
7 come back in September and consider this issue
8 with a little more time.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
10 seconded on a motion to defer.
11 Is there discussion?
12 TREASURER NELSON: Yes. I just want to
13 ask, Governor, of Secretary Wetherell, you
14 mentioned that there were some other sites.
15 Can you tell us what those are?
16 MS. WETHERELL: Well, we talked yesterday,
17 as I said, to both the Navy and to the
18 Port Authority. We were led to believe that
19 there were about four other applicants who were
20 interested with different sites, but that
21 because of the Navy's -- what they perceived as
22 the Navy's time frame, and what they perceived
23 as the State's permitting requirements, that
24 they could not meet those hurdles.
25 So, you know, what -- what I'm saying to
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1 you today is that we're committed to working
2 with the Navy and committed to the State in
3 terms of trying to provide these jobs.
4 So we will try to get with everyone who's
5 interested, all interested parties, ASAP, and
6 look at any other applications, any other site,
7 and meet the Navy's deadline.
8 That was our commitment to the Navy, that
9 we would continue to work with them on their
10 deadline. And so we need to make that known to
11 any other applicant, that we will work with them
12 in an expedited permitting way, as well as this
13 applicant.
14 This applicant has in good faith worked
15 very diligently to get ready for the RFP, which
16 is not yet on the street. And when it comes out
17 on the street in three to four weeks, hopefully
18 there will be some other applicants from which
19 to make an appropriate --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: So the RFP --
21 MS. WETHERELL: -- site selection.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- is to come out on the
23 street in three or four weeks?
24 MS. WETHERELL: That's right.
25 And then --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Then it's to be a 45-day
2 RFP?
3 MS. WETHERELL: That's what the Navy tells
4 us.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: So we're looking at at
6 least 60 days?
7 MS. WETHERELL: At least 60 days, because
8 they're telling us it won't even come out for
9 three to four weeks. And then they'll have a
10 month-and-a-half on the street. So we will be
11 back before you before they close the RFP.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I may
13 make --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- a comment.
16 The RFP process, if it were to hit the
17 street in the next three or four weeks, means
18 that anybody that is going to participate in
19 that process, will make a significant investment
20 in terms of preparing their proposal. And that
21 process is -- starts as soon as -- or even
22 before the RFP hits the street.
23 And so I think that we would be tying the
24 hands of -- of this particular company -- and
25 perhaps any other company -- by deferring.
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1 We're talking about several weeks eating into
2 their proper -- proper preparation of a
3 proposal. At great cost.
4 So I -- I -- I think rather than deny, I
5 would like to see defer. But we are talking
6 about conceptual approval here. And before I
7 would vote on a -- on a defer, I'd like to ask
8 one question, and that has to do with the
9 channel, and exactly what the flow of traffic is
10 in and out of that area.
11 Can somebody address that for me?
12 You could use -- you would better serve me
13 using the aerial photograph, and show me that --
14 where the channel is -- and I recognize you
15 don't show all of the water --
16 MR. JACOBS: I -- yes. The channel is off
17 right here that comes in -- Old Town they
18 talk --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Where is the entry
20 into that channel?
21 MR. JACOBS: Right up here. This is the --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. So the
23 traffic flow -- the traffic flow is down through
24 the aquatic preserve today --
25 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- with lots and
2 lots of ships, large ones and small ones, as
3 well as sport craft, going through the aquatic
4 preserve; is that --
5 MR. JACOBS: Yes, sir.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- correct? Okay.
7 MR. JACOBS: The dredging that was
8 discussed earlier by Commissioner Nelson occurs
9 right in this area.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. I understand
11 that. I was curious as to the traffic flow of
12 ships --
13 MR. JACOBS: Yeah.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- both personal, as
15 well as commercial. And they are through that
16 aquatic preserve today.
17 MR. JACOBS: We have been designated by the
18 Legislature two years ago as the entryway to the
19 Intracoastal Waterway system in Florida. We
20 have quite a -- when people come in from up
21 north with their yachts or whatever, any kind of
22 boat, they come right by Fernandina --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
24 MR. JACOBS: -- and the entrance for the
25 Intracoastal Waterway.
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1 This -- Old Town is this area right here.
2 And this is Container here, and we're over
3 here. So it gives you an idea. They're there,
4 and --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. No. I was
6 just interested in the ship and boat traffic --
7 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. Sir, what we were --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the preserve
9 area.
10 MS. WETHERELL: -- what we had been told is
11 that that channel is in the 30 to 50 foot
12 range. And I guess channels are measured by
13 their shallowest, because that's the limitation
14 for a vessel.
15 So it's -- you know, you've got
16 considerable dredging to do there. But it's the
17 size of the dry dock area --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: What -- what is the
19 dredging that has to be done and --
20 MS. WETHERELL: I'll let Jeremy --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- how much of that and
22 where --
23 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah.
24 MR. CRAFT: I don't know that I was clear
25 in your question, Governor?
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: What is the dredging that
2 has to be done.
3 MR. CRAFT: There is an area of currently
4 very shallow water adjacent to the channel that
5 would have to be dredged down to -- on the order
6 of 50 feet. That allows the dry dock facility
7 itself to sink down, the cruiser to float into
8 it, and then the dry dock facility to be
9 refloated and lift the entire ship out of the
10 water.
11 That's why it has to go so much deeper than
12 the draft of the ship, it's because it's an
13 extra piece of equipment under the ship.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There is no
15 requirement this time to dredge the existing
16 channel as far as we know, in terms of the draft
17 of the aegis cruiser, or for that matter, the
18 drafts of the commercial ships that come through
19 there.
20 MR. CRAFT: As far as I know, there is
21 none. The Corps of Engineers does maintain that
22 area regularly, however, and --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sure.
24 MR. CRAFT: -- and --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I --
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1 TREASURER NELSON: It would --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- would emphasize
3 that right now, there is a tremendous amount of
4 boat traffic that goes through the aquatic
5 preserve.
6 Is that a fair statement?
7 MR. CRAFT: Yes, sir. A good deal of it.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's my point.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: So the question that DER
10 is concerned about -- or one of the questions is
11 whether the dredging of that channel will affect
12 the water quality or water quantity or the water
13 provisions of the aquatic preserve; is that
14 right?
15 MR. CRAFT: Yes, sir. That's one of the
16 main issues. Also, by digging this deep hole,
17 there will be a tendency for the area to
18 sediment in, and the long-term maintenance of
19 this sand operation as it sediments in is of
20 concern.
21 It's also right now a very shallow water
22 area that has a high diversity of biota on it,
23 comparable diversity to that found in the Park.
24 And that is one of the concerns also that has to
25 be considered under the DEP permitting process,
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1 as well as in the aquatic preserve rule.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- the
5 Corps of Engineers maintains the present
6 channel. Do you know at what depth?
7 MR. CRAFT: I don't know what their
8 designed depth is, no, sir. But the bathymetry
9 that was provided by the company on this shows
10 current depths in there ranging in the upper 30s
11 to the lower 50s.
12 TREASURER NELSON: And that channel is
13 approximately how far from the center of this
14 point of the new hole that would be dug for the
15 dry dock facility?
16 MR. CRAFT: After the --
17 TREASURER NELSON: The edge of the channel
18 to the center of that hole would be how many
19 feet?
20 MR. CRAFT: I did a quick estimate off
21 small scale drawings, and it ranges, because the
22 channel is at an angle compared to the
23 shoreline.
24 And judging from that, I think it ranges
25 center line to edge of channel, on the order of
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1 50 to 75 feet at the south end, to about
2 250 feet at the north end.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
4 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask one more
5 question --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- of the Secretary.
8 You know, the obvious site location that
9 first came to my mind was Blount Island. And I
10 asked: Well, why wasn't the location going to
11 be at Blount Island, it's just a few miles down
12 the St. Johns River from Mayport?
13 And the answer was that the United States
14 Marine Corps, which has an ordnance facility
15 there, would not allow this dry dock facility
16 there, because it was in the explosive range of
17 the Marine Corps ordnance facility.
18 Is that a correct statement?
19 MS. WETHERELL: I haven't heard that.
20 Kirby Green or Dale Padgett, who negotiated
21 might have --
22 MR. JACOBS: I could speak to that, sir.
23 We have some input that would help you --
24 MR. GREEN: We have heard that that is a
25 true statement, that that concern exists.
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1 Yesterday, as part of this discussion in
2 trying to decide how we were going to move
3 forward with this issue, we talked with the
4 Port of Jacksonville and their
5 executive director.
6 We asked him about Blount Island, and what
7 their feelings were about placing a facility at
8 that location.
9 They came back with a similar answer, that
10 that was not appropriate.
11 They did identify another site where at
12 least two other people had come to them and
13 asked them if it was a possibility for use for
14 this -- for this purpose. That was being at
15 Dames Point.
16 Their concern at that -- at that point was
17 that because of the short time of -- the Navy's
18 requirement for short time to be in operation,
19 that they told the applicants that they didn't
20 think that they could go through the permitting
21 process and produce the necessary permits for
22 them to dredge and make these facilities ready
23 for operation.
24 But if there was an indication that there
25 may be ability to work with the State, that that
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1 site may become available.
2 So Jacksonville Port yesterday indicated
3 that at Dames Point, they felt that there was a
4 site that would be appropriate for this
5 activity. And if the permits -- if we could
6 fast track permits, that it may be available.
7 That's -- that's part of the reason that
8 we've encouraged a deferral here, is so we could
9 get with all the applicants and see if there
10 were other available sites in the area that were
11 better environmentally suited for this activity
12 before we made a final recommendation to you.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- I personally am very
16 uncomfortable with this whole issue here today.
17 Now, maybe somebody else received the
18 information prior to when we did. But we felt
19 up until 4:45 yesterday afternoon that this
20 particular issue was going to be deferred at the
21 request of staff.
22 So I understand that I -- I've been out of
23 town, but, you know, 4:45 is not a lot of time.
24 I would hope that we would fast track
25 whatever would be in the best interest of the
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1 ultimate selection of the site that would be
2 proposed by staff, and/or the people that would
3 be coming forward.
4 Five hundred jobs is a lot of jobs, we
5 would certainly want that to happen.
6 As the chief historic officer in the state,
7 I would like George Percy to at least look at
8 the -- at the site, as well, if we're talking
9 about a National Registry district. I mean,
10 I think that that is an issue that also needs to
11 be addressed.
12 And I don't think that that has happened.
13 And so, you know, I think that there -- there's
14 a motion on the floor, and a second to defer,
15 and -- and I think that we need to take this up
16 at the -- at the next regular Cabinet meeting.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I just ask one
18 other question, Governor --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and I -- and by
21 the way, I don't know if anybody present today
22 has the answer to this.
23 Secretary, we've all been sort of wheeling
24 and dealing here based on some supposed
25 time line put out by the Department of the
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1 Navy.
2 What -- what is their urgency, other than
3 their desire to make this service available,
4 that throws us into that situation? Are you --
5 are you aware?
6 MS. WETHERELL: Well, you know, I think
7 obviously the desire to be able to repair the
8 ships close to the home port. But they have set
9 a time frame for themselves of fall of '97 to
10 January, February of '98, as having the dry dock
11 up and operational.
12 So if you back that out, they need to get
13 their RFP on the street as soon as possible.
14 But what they're telling us now is that it will
15 be three to four weeks before they get the RFP
16 out on the street for the contract.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I guess my
18 point is, however, that's -- I'm not trying to
19 trivialize it, but that's simply a time line
20 that the Navy has determined that they would
21 like to utilize.
22 It appears to me that there's still the
23 possibility that that could be the case. And I
24 know we've already made an issue of it. But
25 still defer this, and potentially remain within
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1 that time line.
2 Is that the way you see it?
3 MS. WETHERELL: Well, the way I see it is
4 that with the deferral -- you know, with a
5 denial, approval, or deferral, that the bottom
6 line is that the RFP is not going to close
7 before your next Cabinet meeting.
8 So there is an opportunity to continue to
9 explore to come up with the best site. The Navy
10 has very specifically said to us that they are
11 not site specific. They're not saying, this is
12 the site.
13 They -- this is a good applicant, they --
14 I think that this is, you know, a good project.
15 It's -- but they don't care where the site is,
16 as long as it's within 75 miles of the
17 Jacksonville home port.
18 We care, obviously, because of the
19 environmental impacts. We want to create the
20 jobs, we want to help Florida with its economic
21 development. But we are -- we would like the
22 opportunity to see. We might have to come back
23 to you and say, no other applicant, you know,
24 felt they could make the requirements -- meet
25 the requirements. But we believe there is an
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1 opportunity.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. We have a
3 motion and a second. And we've had a good, long
4 discussion.
5 So many as favor the motion, signify by
6 saying aye.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
11 Motion to defer is -- is --
12 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Thank you.
13 Item 14 are surplus land sales.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute item 15 is the
19 Overstreet/Mitigation Bank. And --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
25 have a little problem on 15. And that is, I'm
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1 not opposed to it, but be very, very careful
2 about this one.
3 I believe that the applicant believes
4 they're going to get, from my understanding,
5 about four or five hundred of his mitigation
6 so-called coupons. It'd be much cheaper for us
7 to buy this, than to give them 400 mitigation
8 coupons that could be used in a lot of other
9 areas.
10 So this is a very dangerous area. I don't
11 mind studying the mitigation bank issue, but I'd
12 almost rather not have it associated to a
13 particular project, because we're really getting
14 the hopes up of these people that we might do
15 exactly what they want to do with this piece of
16 property.
17 And when it comes back to us, we may decide
18 this is the worst piece of property for us to
19 use the mitigation bank issue on.
20 And, in fact, the way it's happening down
21 in Florida, the mitigation bank issue might even
22 be a securities issue. I saw -- I mean, there's
23 a lot of -- there's a lot more issues involved
24 with this whole thing. So -- than just -- just
25 try to come up with some value and some
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1 geography. It could be a very dangerous issue
2 for us.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Could you --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's my
5 only concern there.
6 MS. WETHERELL: Well --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would like
8 to unlink it.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could we go to the
11 Secretary on that, Governor?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Well, this is a --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
14 MS. WETHERELL: -- an application by the
15 South Florida Water Management District. It is,
16 you know, their item and their request.
17 I understand your concerns, and that --
18 that concern -- I think the Department shares
19 that concern. At this point though, we have
20 clear statutory authority and direction, lots of
21 direction in this past session about, you know,
22 setting up mitigation banks and proceeding that
23 way. But --
24 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
25 MS. WETHERELL: -- we have some of these
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1 same problems about where mitigation banking is
2 going to end up.
3 But at this point, we've got the authority
4 and the direction to -- to do these kinds of
5 things.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
7 MS. WETHERELL: If you want to hear from
8 the Water Management District, or you want to
9 hear from the person representing the owner --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'd like
11 to --
12 MS. WETHERELL: -- they're both here.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- uncouple
14 the item, and defer the actual purchase -- or if
15 it would -- I don't know how your item is. But
16 if it's just -- just do mitigation bank study or
17 report alone, but not linking it to this
18 particular project.
19 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I think I need --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It might
21 be --
22 MS. WETHERELL: -- to hear from --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- just
24 semantics. But, I mean, it's just --
25 MS. WETHERELL: -- the District.
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1 Would you like to hear from the District
2 though?
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Better hear from
4 somebody.
5 MR. RENALDI: Chuck Renaldi with the
6 South Florida Water Management District.
7 The objective here is to -- to facilitate
8 the acquisition for the Kissimmee River
9 restoration project. Involved is approximately
10 600 acres. About half of these acres are policy
11 lands over which the State may have an
12 interest. In lieu of an acquisition by
13 purchase, the Overstreets have offered to -- to
14 donate this land to the District in return for
15 establishing a mitigation bank on this property.
16 The benefit to the public will be a savings
17 of some $2.2 million. And we -- we believe it's
18 a worthwhile private-public partnership.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well now, what is the
21 other side of it? When you establish a
22 mitigation bank, then, in effect, they get
23 credits, and other people that have to --
24 you know, have a mitigation problem can then buy
25 those credits.
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1 So, you know, there are two sides to the
2 equation. I think what the General's saying is
3 we want to kind of see both sides of the
4 equation.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Your job is
6 to color in the property that you're supposed to
7 buy.
8 MR. RENALDI: That's correct.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's your
10 main concern. That's your job.
11 Our job is a little more than that, because
12 I don't want somebody buying something that you
13 might have had a value of $500 on, and find out
14 they're going to use it for acreage that may
15 very well have have a $50,000 item.
16 You may very well be giving the person --
17 this mitigation bank up to $20 million of value
18 in order to save your 2 million.
19 So I'm very concerned about the issue.
20 I mean, I'm seriously concerned about it.
21 So I just don't want to -- I do want to
22 look at mitigation bank, Governor, but I don't
23 want to link it to this piece of property, or
24 any piece of property, for that matter.
25 Especially when half this property I believe we
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1 own.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And that
4 makes it even sillier for us to give them
5 mitigation credits that they can use somewhere
6 else for acreage that we already own.
7 I mean, you know, just -- you know, it's a
8 small issue, Governor.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: What would you like
10 to do, General?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't know
12 what I'd like to do. I'd like to uncouple it
13 somehow to -- so if the Overstreets, who are
14 good people, I think they are really attempting
15 to do the right thing here, and they've been
16 here forever.
17 The -- I would like to not have them think
18 that when we come back on this issue that we're
19 going to lock ourselves into this particular
20 thing. I think they --
21 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I really
23 believe they believe they're going to be getting
24 about 400, or more, of these mitigation
25 credits. We may very well find out that the
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1 mitigation bank, that the value of one credit
2 might be worth the whole $2 million. We may --
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: It may be --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- only want
5 to give them ten or twenty.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, and I -- I
7 understand exactly what you're saying, and it is
8 a concern.
9 I -- my concern with trying to uncouple it
10 at this point is lack of knowledge that I have
11 as to whether the Overstreets really do believe
12 it's all part and parcel to one deal. And
13 trying then to separate it, because that may
14 have the potential, if nobody's here to address
15 it otherwise, of changing the configuration of
16 the deal.
17 Is it -- I think we've got a motion and a
18 second on the floor. And, again -- here I go
19 again. But based on exactly what you said and
20 exactly the same concern, this may be worthy
21 of -- of deferral until we can clear up that
22 issue.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You defer
24 this item --
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and then
2 just take the mitigation bank issue itself.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- it's my
4 understanding that this is -- comes under the
5 heading, kind of a concept approval that the
6 specifics of the mitigation bank and how that
7 would work would actually come back to the
8 Trustees.
9 So we're not necessarily locking ourselves
10 into a problem here. And I think the
11 Overstreets are in good faith moving forward
12 with this. And saving two -- in excess of
13 $2 million for the public.
14 So I would hope we could go ahead and vote
15 in favor of it, and the Attorney General would
16 be vigilant in making sure when we just come
17 back for the specifics, we could address those
18 concerns at that point.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you know, do we
20 have the right, when it comes back, to look at
21 how many credits, anything about it? I mean,
22 is --
23 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. There's some
24 conditions --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are we about to vote
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1 something --
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't want
3 any conditions. That's my problem.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah. That's give them
5 a --
6 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. You see Item 3, the
7 specifics of the extent of the mitigation area,
8 the number of credits will be presented to
9 the -- to you for consideration prior to any
10 work being conducted.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: What would --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think that --
13 MS. WETHERELL: That's on the --
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- give us another
15 bite at it. I think that gives us another shot
16 at it.
17 MS. WETHERELL: It gives you some control
18 of the mitigation bank.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- a motion to approve
20 it, and get the conceptual --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think with
22 the discussion, I think the Overstreets are on
23 notice that we might not do this.
24 But do we have the option to just not do it
25 with this property; or, in fact, are we locking
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1 ourselves in to having to do it, mitigation bank
2 purchase with the Overstreets. They may not
3 like the number of mitigation credits they get,
4 but I think you're locking --
5 MS. WETHERELL: I think you are.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- the --
7 this Board into buying this piece of property
8 with mitigation credits, and not with cash.
9 MS. WETHERELL: I think you're locking into
10 they're donating the property, and -- with the
11 establishment of a bank, and then you have some
12 control over the number of -- and the extent of
13 the service area.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well -- you know, the
15 banking company or their consultant must be
16 approved by us prior to any work being done to
17 establish mitigation bank.
18 But is there something specifically in
19 there that says how much credit, or anything
20 else? I don't --
21 MS. WETHERELL: No, there's not.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Hmm?
23 MS. WETHERELL: No.
24 MR. CRAFT: We do not have a mitigation
25 bank application before us at this time. We
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1 were trying to assist the Water Management
2 District in making sure the land deal could go
3 forward, and then handle that permitting process
4 later on.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I'm not sure it's
6 fair to the Overstreets. If we're now saying
7 that, wait a minute, you know, in effect, you're
8 locking them in to sell their land at this
9 price. But on the other hand, we're not ready
10 to tell them what they're going to get for
11 that.
12 So it looks like to me, if we're putting
13 them on notice that that's true, I'm not sure
14 that we've really done them much of a favor,
15 that that's exactly fair to them.
16 MS. WETHERELL: I think what's happened is
17 the District's telling me that their time crunch
18 is August the 31st, and they need title in order
19 to proceed with the restoration, the
20 Kissimmee River restoration. So they can't
21 proceed without title --
22 MR. RENALDI: That's correct.
23 MS. WETHERELL: -- to the property. So
24 they've worked out this agreement with the
25 Overstreets --
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Who can't --
2 MS. WETHERELL: -- to donate --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- proceed without title
4 to --
5 MS. WETHERELL: The District.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: The District?
7 MS. WETHERELL: The Corps.
8 MR. RENALDI: The Corps of Engineers'
9 schedule, Governor, is August 31st, by which we
10 must have title to this property. The -- the
11 idea is that the Overstreets would donate this
12 property to us, and proceed with the mitigation
13 bank. And this would --
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think it's
15 like more here, Governor. They're expecting
16 something more.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah. Well, no. I mean,
18 they donate it. But what, in effect, do they
19 get for it?
20 They get a mitigation bank. But there's
21 got to be some way of establishing value, the
22 value on this thing, it seems like to me. Or
23 within ranges.
24 MR. RENALDI: The value of the credits?
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah. Yeah.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: That's right.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's the
3 whole thing.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Uh-hum.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They
6 can't --
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's my concern, is
8 that by acting, and yet placing in the caveat
9 that that's not determined, we may, in essence,
10 be altering at least the perceived terms of the
11 agreement on the part of the Overstreets, who I
12 agree, are acting in very good faith.
13 But without them or their representative
14 here to speak to this, I think it makes the
15 whole issue a little difficult to deal with.
16 MR. GREEN: Governor and Cabinet, the
17 agreement with the Water Management District has
18 a clause in it that says if the mitigation bank
19 cannot be created, cannot be permitted, that
20 there is a value that the Water Management
21 District will purchase the land for.
22 So there is -- there is a dollar value that
23 is set in the contract that says, if this
24 doesn't happen, the mitigation bank, then we'll
25 do this for X number of dollars. And that
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1 X number of dollars is --
2 MR. RENALDI: About 1.2 million.
3 MR. GREEN: -- 1.2 million.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, my
5 only -- my only question of this would be --
6 I think it goes back to the fairness to the
7 Overstreets.
8 We may very well decide, fine, we'll give
9 it one mitigation bank credit. And they may
10 have much less value than 1.2 million. I would
11 certainly hope they would have an escape clause
12 there, too, and it would be -- you say they do
13 not have the escape clause.
14 So am I right to assume that the
15 Overstreets are expecting X number of units, or
16 whatever they call the ownership, to go into the
17 mitigation bank? Are they expecting something?
18 MR. GREEN: We have Bill Eagan here, who
19 represents the Overstreets. And I think I'll
20 let him answer that question.
21 MR. EAGAN: Governor Chiles and General,
22 and members of the Cabinet. This agreement that
23 is before you today comes out of your resolution
24 of 1993 which will recognize the need in the
25 District to acquire lands to facilitate the
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1 headwaters restoration on the Kissimmee River
2 project.
3 In that resolution, you recognized also
4 that there was a continuing dispute between the
5 private ownership rights and the public
6 ownership rights on the shoreline of these
7 lakes. And this is on the east shore of
8 Lake Kissimmee.
9 In that resolution, you said that in the
10 case of negotiated acquisitions, the State would
11 not assert any claim of ownership as to any
12 individual parcel acquired by the District
13 through negotiation.
14 Mr. Renaldi, who is probably one of the
15 toughest, and at the same time, most innovative
16 guardians of the public interest I've ever run
17 into, worked with us to evolve this concept out
18 of the spirit of that resolution, whereby the
19 District would acquire the necessary land.
20 Included in that land is 328 acres of what
21 is referred to in your prior resolution as
22 policy lands, the lands that you promised us you
23 would not assert any claim of ownership to.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: How many acres?
25 MR. EAGAN: Three hundred and twenty eight.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Three hundred and twenty
2 eight.
3 MR. EAGAN: And then there -- an
4 additional -- there is additional acreage there,
5 so that in what the District will acquire
6 constitutes about 695 acres.
7 In addition, the mitigation bank concept
8 will put into that conservation area by way of
9 conservation easements, another 400 acres of
10 privately owned land so that there will be in
11 conservation a total of 1,000 acres. And the
12 method by which we arrived at the compensation
13 to the owners and to accomplish the
14 conservation, would be through the mitigation
15 banking.
16 So that the necessary structure work would
17 be done to restore the original hydraulic
18 function to the lake. And then through the
19 mitigation bank process, ultimately the sale of
20 credits would flow, as permitted by the DEP.
21 If it comes back to you for a final
22 approval, that's fine. That's the way the
23 agenda item sits now.
24 But we understand that the DEP permitting
25 process is an evolutionary thing. We do not
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1 know how many credits will ultimately result.
2 There has been some preliminary discussion, some
3 preliminary review of the land. It is a -- it
4 is a very desirable, sensitive piece of land
5 that will work and should be conserved.
6 The Overstreets at the present time are
7 engaged in the facilitation of the
8 whooping crane program through which that
9 species is being reintroduced into the state.
10 And they have, at their expense, made land
11 available for that project, and have improved
12 that habitat. And this will facilitate the
13 further improvement of that habitat.
14 So to -- I don't think you can delink the
15 process, because that is how the District is
16 acquiring the land, that is how the conservation
17 effort is going to be served, that is how the
18 restoration effort by the work that would be
19 done by the Corps of Engineers or the State
20 would otherwise be accomplished in actual
21 physical work in the lake proper.
22 So --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well then, would you --
25 are you acknowledging, in effect, as the agent
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1 for the Overstreets and their counsel that at
2 this stage, nothing has been represented to the
3 Overstreets, or there's nothing there that they
4 could necessarily say, wait a minute, we put
5 that in, we expect to be able to receive X
6 credits, or X value out of this, that that is
7 all to be left into the negotiation?
8 MR. EAGAN: We -- there is no commitment in
9 that respect, Governor. We understand that if
10 we are on a level playing field --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12 MR. EAGAN: -- that this will be a very
13 prime mitigation bank. And we'll --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, understand that --
15 MR. EAGAN: -- be --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- we know that, because
17 we're purchasing the property.
18 But the question now is, from our
19 standpoint as public policymakers is: How much
20 land are we going to allow to be taken out of
21 wetlands, in effect, for the credit of this
22 bank, because we know, in effect, if we want to
23 buy this land, probably the upper price is the
24 two million something, the lower price is the
25 one million something. So we've got a range,
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1 you know, there.
2 MR. EAGAN: That's right.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: But are we -- now, what
4 we don't know is how many acres, how much
5 sensitive land, how much other things that we're
6 saying to someone -- the shopping center, the
7 small thing, you go buy mitigation credit for
8 this, and you can take that out.
9 And -- you know, and you can destroy that
10 wetland. See, that's what we don't know.
11 And -- and I think what we're saying is, we want
12 to make sure that everybody is on a level
13 playing field, and there is going to be some
14 negotiation.
15 And I would think fairly that negotiation
16 should be that the Overstreets ought to get up
17 to $2 million credit, you know, for this land.
18 Certainly over a million two, or whatever that
19 is. But not necessarily 8 million or
20 10 million, or, you know, up to that amount.
21 Because at some stage, hell, we're better to buy
22 the land and use the mitigation bank ourself if
23 we have to.
24 MR. EAGAN: Well, you -- one never knows
25 what a mitigation credit is going to be worth in
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1 the ultimate market when this is all said and
2 done. It's a brand new concept. Came in --
3 came on-line in 1993.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
5 MR. EAGAN: There's a great deal of risk
6 involved in that for the Overstreets. They
7 understand that. They would expect some reward
8 for that risk, if, indeed, they choose to go
9 that route.
10 There's going to be a significant
11 investment in actual construction work done on
12 the property. And they would expect some return
13 and reward for that.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
15 you say the risk goes both ways, and we're
16 sitting here as the Board of Trustees to the
17 people of the State of Florida. We at this
18 point in time don't know where these could be
19 used, what effect it's going to have.
20 And you stated, Mr. Eagan, that the --
21 there have been some preliminary negotiations as
22 to numbers.
23 Could you tell me what those are?
24 MR. EAGAN: No, I don't -- as to numbers
25 I --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: On
2 mitigation --
3 MR. EAGAN: -- didn't say there was any --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- credits.
5 MR. EAGAN: I said there had been some
6 review of the land --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh, I
8 thought you said --
9 MR. EAGAN: -- with potential mitigation --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- there was
11 some number.
12 MR. EAGAN: We know that there will be a
13 significant restoration of ecological function
14 in the shore of the --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
16 MR. EAGAN: -- lake area.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- you know, I'm prepared
18 to vote for the motion now, to tell you the
19 truth, because I think -- I think we have put
20 the Overstreets on notice that --
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: They're at risk,
22 not the State.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that, in effect, they
24 may be putting themselves at risk, because we're
25 not agreeing to any dollar figure or credit
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1 numbers or anything like that. All of that
2 would be open for further negotiations.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
4 Governor, may I ask a question and --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- put
7 something on the record here?
8 From discussion here today then, sir, is it
9 the understanding of the Overstreets that we may
10 very well not offer them mitigation credits for
11 this land, and it'll go back to their --
12 whatever the contract price was?
13 Or is it your understanding that no matter
14 what happens, you get mitigation credits?
15 MR. EAGAN: I would not understand that you
16 would arbitrarily say, we would not have any
17 mitigation credits.
18 I would understand that we would go through
19 the normal permitting process, which would
20 involve an evaluation of the land. And it would
21 be -- as any other mitigation bank, it would be
22 evaluated for that purpose.
23 And I would not hope -- I would hope that
24 you would not penalize us because of the nature
25 of this originating transaction. But we would
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1 be treated as any other mitigation bank
2 applicant.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: I -- you know, I would
4 basically agree with that. I think there is a
5 fail-safe that's put into this, that if all
6 negotiations break down, we've agreed to give
7 them $1.2 million, or whatever it is.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is that what
9 the Overstreets understand?
10 MR. EAGAN: That's correct.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
12 That's all.
13 Thank you, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there
15 further discussion?
16 Many as favor the motion, signify by saying
17 aye.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sorry we
23 spent --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's carried.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- so much
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1 of the Cabinet's time, Governor, on a
2 noncontroversial issue.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's all right.
4 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
5 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
6 *
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
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25
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1 (Administration Commission agenda
2 reconvened.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Then we had one issue
4 that we were going to come back on again.
5 Good discussion.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Board of
7 Administration, isn't it?
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Board of Administration.
9 Yes, sir.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Governor, we're back on the
11 motion, Item number 6. That was the
12 authorization to enter the draft order in the
13 case of the Community Affairs and Responsible
14 Growth Management Coalition and Sylvan Zemel,
15 et cetera, versus Lee County and R.Q. Richards.
16 We have a number of people here to speak,
17 Governor. We're going to limit the time. You
18 can tell me if it's too much. I know some of
19 the Cabinet members have some commitments to
20 make.
21 We've got about nine people -- well,
22 eleven people. We were going to give them
23 20 minutes a side. We can try to squeeze them
24 into 15 if you want.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let's --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'd vote for the
2 15, if possible. I've got to make a funeral in
3 Polk County at 4:00 o'clock --
4 DR. BRADLEY: Yes, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- and I'd
6 appreciate if we could speed it up.
7 DR. BRADLEY: Okay. Fifteen minutes a side
8 then --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay. Let's try to --
10 DR. BRADLEY: -- Governor.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- do that.
12 DR. BRADLEY: The first -- the first group
13 of people will be led off by Secretary Murley.
14 If we could get the other folks up here at
15 the beginning, it would facilitate things.
16 I'd like to see Tom Reese of the
17 Responsible Growth Management Coalition,
18 Gary Beardsley.
19 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
20 room.)
21 DR. BRADLEY: Also of that organization,
22 John Cassani, Lyle Danielson, Terrell Arline,
23 and Eva Armstrong up here to follow
24 Secretary Murley.
25 SECRETARY MURLEY: Thank you, Bob.
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1 Members -- Governor, members of the
2 Cabinet, Jim Murley, Secretary of the Department
3 of Community Affairs.
4 We come here in support of the
5 Administration Commission staff's recommended
6 final order with some final technical
7 refinements that have been negotiated, as
8 always, today.
9 This is a very important case, members of
10 the Cabinet. It represents the first set of
11 amendments based on a County's evaluation and
12 appraisal report, a requirement that has been in
13 the law since 1975, was updated by the
14 Legislature in 1985 and in 1993.
15 I want to make it very clear that today,
16 the Lee County Comprehensive Plan is in
17 compliance. It is the amendments that have gone
18 through a lengthy administrative hearing that
19 have been -- that objection's been raised that
20 we have recommended to you, and the order not go
21 into effect, which will keep the Lee County plan
22 into compliance.
23 I also want to note that many of the
24 amendments that came out of the EAR evaluation
25 were not objected to, and they have been free to
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1 move ahead and adopt those --
2 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
3 room.)
4 SECRETARY MURLEY: -- and put them into
5 effect.
6 The key issue of this case relates to the
7 overlay, an important map that is -- that
8 overlays the future land use map of Lee County.
9 That is the future land use map of
10 Lee County as it exists today.
11 The overlay has its origins in the 1989
12 settlement before -- between the Department of
13 Community Affairs, Lee County, and a number of
14 third parties. It led to 1990 amendments, which
15 implemented the overlay.
16 It was part of the case brought before you
17 by citizens of the Shareview case in 1994, which
18 you issued a final order for.
19 The overlay is a critical part of being
20 sure that the Lee County plan allocates
21 development in proportion to the future
22 population, deals with allocations of land for
23 commercial for mixed use zones.
24 We understand that the overlay can be
25 difficult to implement. We stand ready to work
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1 with Lee County to find and examine with them
2 alternatives to the overlay.
3 But it is the finding of the
4 Hearing Officer, and is the recommendations of
5 the Department and in the order, that that not
6 be done subsequent to a removal of the overlay.
7 The amendment that we object to would
8 remove the overlay without putting in place the
9 specific things that would take -- which would
10 be there in place of the overlay.
11 The first sheet that she just removed
12 indicates the numbers that are there with the
13 overlay. What would happen if the overlay were
14 to be removed is reflected in this sheet.
15 Now, we have seven quick slides that
16 reflect the key findings of fact and conclusions
17 of law of the Hearing Officer that we believe
18 form the basis of the recommendations here
19 before you.
20 The first slide deals with the historic
21 fact that in Lee County, there has been an
22 extensive amount of land, and it's not the fault
23 of the leaders of Lee County today, it's the
24 history that they and we have to deal with.
25 It's the overlay with 115 districts that
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1 attempts to deal with that problem.
2 The next slide reflects the conclusions of
3 law dealing with if the overlay is deleted,
4 there would be extensive allocation of
5 additional land for commercial use, without any
6 alternative way of dealing with that issue.
7 The next slide deals with mixed use
8 categories, a land use category that the
9 Department encourages be used because it
10 provides for residential, commercial, retail,
11 and other uses to be located in a single area.
12 But a key factor to that is arriving with
13 some percentages of those uses within each mixed
14 use category. That's in the overlay. You take
15 the overlay away, and we don't have it.
16 Those three things are primary indicators
17 under the Department's urban sprawl rule, which
18 are looked at very carefully by a
19 Hearing Officer. Because this is a very
20 important rule, the urban sprawl rule. It's
21 been litigated, it's been before the
22 Legislature, it's -- and it's -- based on the
23 findings of the Hearing Officer, dealing with
24 overallocation of land, commercial, and mixed
25 use, that those are the indicators that he
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1 relied on to make a finding that, without the
2 overlay, the Lee County plan would lead to urban
3 sprawl.
4 And as recently as July 2nd, the First
5 District Court of Appeals upheld our urban
6 sprawl rule in the case of Florida East Coast
7 Industries versus DCA.
8 The elimination of the overlay also brings
9 great concern to the Department of Community
10 Affairs in the area of knowing the kinds of
11 development in the future that can be expected
12 in the Coastal High Hazard Area, that area
13 nearest to the coast that'll be impacted by
14 hurricanes.
15 This is a new requirement that was added,
16 and specifically detailed in the 1993
17 legislation, one of the very reasons that a
18 county does an overall EAR in order to update
19 its plan, and recognize the new direction given
20 by legislation.
21 Without the overlay again, and without
22 understanding what would be used as an
23 alternative, we have no idea how the land uses
24 would evolve in that critical Coastal High
25 Hazard Area.
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1 Now, an area we're very close in Lee County
2 is in Lehigh Acres, an area that is -- again,
3 the prior -- the past decision over
4 130,000 lots, of which about 13 percent are
5 built out.
6 That's an area that we believe we can work
7 with Lee County, interceptor plan as recommended
8 by the Hearing Officer, and provide the special
9 attention that would allow this area to develop
10 in recognition of what it is today, and how it
11 can best fit into the future of Lee County.
12 We believe that the areas of water and
13 sewer need to be looked at as that sector plan
14 is advanced.
15 Now, there is another area in the specific
16 area of the proposed changes to the plan dealing
17 with Airport Commercial where the
18 Hearing Officer made the specific findings that
19 the area --
20 And you can probably point to it,
21 Stephanie, on the map.
22 -- is suitable for the kind of land use
23 activities that the Airport Commercial category
24 would include.
25 However, the Hearing Officer did not find
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1 any need for an additional area to be amended
2 into this new category. So while the
3 suitability is there, the need was not
4 demonstrated.
5 Now, we understand this is an area that is
6 very important to Lee County and the kind of
7 area that I know the Governor and Cabinet often
8 like to try to find common ground with local
9 government.
10 If this is an area that you decide to
11 proceed in, based on the Hearing Officer's
12 findings of suitability, we would say that it
13 only should be approached if we -- if it's with
14 the commitment and direction to the County that
15 policies be added to the plan that make it clear
16 that we -- we're trying to discourage further
17 incursions of this type -- of commercial urban
18 uses into these areas that would include roads,
19 and, therefore, we could lay the groundwork for
20 any future change to be evaluated in the context
21 of -- of any inclusion of this airport
22 commercial --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now, just so I understand
24 that --
25 SECRETARY MURLEY: Yes, sir.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- is what you're saying
2 is that the Hearing Officer found that there was
3 not a -- a need, even though it could be a
4 suitability.
5 SECRETARY MURLEY: There was a finding of
6 suitability, Governor --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: The County -- that
8 portion is very important to the County, to do
9 something there. And what you're saying is, the
10 Department is saying that if the Cabinet wanted
11 to change that, in effect, go against the
12 Hearing Officer on that regard, you would want
13 to see it done conditioned upon the County
14 agreeing that --
15 SECRETARY MURLEY: The further remedial
16 amendments which would --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Further remedial
18 amendments in --
19 SECRETARY MURLEY: Yes, sir.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that's in commercial
21 type land, which you say they've already got too
22 much of now.
23 SECRETARY MURLEY: That's right. I mean,
24 future amendments --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: That would be some kind
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1 of restrictions on that.
2 Okay.
3 SECRETARY MURLEY: Yes, Governor.
4 Finally -- and I know that time is short,
5 and I'm going to cut right to the issue -- and
6 that is, the way the law now reads, members of
7 the Cabinet, is that the amendments are not into
8 effect.
9 You will issue a final order directing,
10 based on your reading of the Hearing Officer's
11 findings of fact and conclusions of law, your
12 directions to Lee County.
13 If they decide to follow through with
14 those, and to -- and we commit to you, and to
15 Lee County, we will work on every one of those
16 items to try to find reasonable solutions, then
17 there are no sanctions.
18 If Lee County decides to proceed not -- and
19 put into effect the amendments notwithstanding
20 any direction you may give in your final order,
21 then sanctions do apply under the law. And we
22 believe it is appropriate that the Governor and
23 Cabinet include and change the way the State
24 normally funds activities in this county where
25 the plan, based on the Hearing Officer's
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1 findings of fact and conclusions of law in your
2 final order, would be out of compliance.
3 I'd be glad to be available after the other
4 presentations to answer any questions, Governor,
5 members of the Cabinet.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Thank you.
7 MR. REESE: Governor Chiles, members of the
8 Cabinet, I'll be real brief. I'm Tom Reese. I
9 represent the Responsible Growth Management
10 Coalition.
11 We were -- Responsible Growth Management
12 Coalition was organized in 1987 for the specific
13 purpose of a group of Lee County citizens
14 getting together to try to implement the Growth
15 Management Act, and we've been very actively
16 involved in the Lee County comp plan.
17 During its inception in 1989, we signed the
18 settlement agreement when -- with regard to the
19 initial 1989 plan which required the 2010
20 overlay to address the overallocation problem,
21 and we participated in the hearing below. It
22 was a two-week hearing.
23 And I just want to stress, the 2010 overlay
24 is a very important component, and something
25 we've been addressing for a number of years,
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1 since 1989, concerning the Lee plan.
2 And we are in support of the staff's draft
3 order, the July 19th draft final order, and feel
4 that is the appropriate method to affirm the
5 Hearing Officer's findings of facts and
6 recommendations, and give the recommended
7 remedial actions that he suggested in that
8 recommended order.
9 With regard to the Alico property, they're
10 the 1400 Airport -- acre Airport Commerce, that
11 is important for two reasons, as
12 Secretary Murley stated.
13 One is, there's a very significant
14 overallocation on the commercial. There is just
15 no need for any more light industrial,
16 Airport Commerce type designations in
17 Lee County. They have sufficient amount for a
18 vast number of years.
19 So if you were to try to address the
20 Hearing Officer's concerns on overallocation,
21 you need to address the fact that there is this
22 tremendous allocation elsewhere, and you'd have
23 to try to reduce that allocation on other
24 properties.
25 The other problem with the Airport Commerce
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1 is, this is east of the interstate. This is
2 property that's currently designated 1 unit per
3 10 acres, the Density Reduction/Groundwater
4 protection area.
5 And it's part -- it's in between the new
6 tenth university and the airport. And it's --
7 it sets a precedent. If it's approved and is
8 allowed to go into effect, it sets a precedent
9 for further development east of the interstate
10 at a time when the Lee plan has all these
11 indicators of urban sprawl and overallocation.
12 Now, we were willing to try to negotiate
13 the Airport Commerce. We met several times with
14 Lee County and Department of Community Affairs
15 on trying to work out some type of solution for
16 this designation.
17 But it's our position, the only way -- and
18 it's, I believe, the same position
19 Secretary Murley stated -- the only way you can
20 assure that you're not going to have further
21 urban sprawl is to come up with some type of
22 policies concerning future expansion into the
23 Density Reduction/Groundwater Resource
24 protection area.
25 We also have concerns about long-term plans
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1 for roads in this area. And that is being
2 addressed currently by the Arnold committee,
3 which is looking at all of southeast Lee County
4 to try to address the growth management
5 concerns.
6 But we think at this point, the best thing
7 to do is just approve the staff recommendation
8 of July 19th.
9 And I'd like to introduce Gary Beardsley,
10 who's the President of Responsible Growth
11 Management Coalition. And he's driven a long
12 way. He drove here all this morning. In fact,
13 I believe he left at approximately midnight to
14 get here.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
16 DR. BRADLEY: There are about 3 minutes,
17 left, Governor.
18 MR. BEARDSLEY: Good afternoon, Governor,
19 and also Cabinet members.
20 The main reason our delegation of three
21 came here is to show you that there are many
22 organizations that we represent that have a lot
23 of concerns about the future of Lee County.
24 Also my wife is half Cherokee, and she
25 reminded me when I was ready to leave that
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1 Chief Mankiller, who is the Chief, and happens
2 to be a female, of the Cherokee Nation, said
3 that policy decisions made by the tribe -- and
4 I think Governor Chiles said that you're the
5 policy decision makers -- need to be made with a
6 look into the future of what the implications of
7 those decisions are going to be into multiple
8 generations.
9 And the Responsible Growth Management
10 Coalition feels that you will make the right
11 decision, and you will look into the future of
12 Lee County, and make sure that you also approve
13 the Hearing Officer, and also the DCA's
14 recommendations.
15 Thank you very much.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
17 MR. ARLINE: Good afternoon, Governor, and
18 Commissioners.
19 I'm Terrell Arline. I'm Legal Director of
20 1000 Friends of Florida. We're a statewide
21 growth management advocacy group. And we
22 support the recommended order and the
23 recommendations of Secretary Murley and your
24 staff.
25 Thank you.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. CASSANI: Good afternoon,
3 Governor Chiles and Cabinet members.
4 For the record, my name is John Cassani.
5 I've been a resident of Lee County for eighteen
6 plus years, and I'm here this afternoon
7 representing the Environmental Confederation of
8 Southwest Florida.
9 Thirteen of our forty-two member
10 organizations are from Lee County. And we have
11 been involved with the EAR and the Lee County
12 comp plan for the past two years, and a variety
13 of other growth management issues locally.
14 In general, we are very concerned about
15 growth management in Lee County. We are
16 disturbed as to how liquid a document the comp
17 plan has become. We understand the need for
18 some flexibility, but the plans become just too
19 liquid, resulting in what we feel is an
20 overallocated development.
21 We feel that if the proposed amendments are
22 adopted, the comp plan will lose much of its
23 original intent. We urge you and your Cabinet
24 to oppose adoption of the proposed amendments.
25 Thank you for your time and consideration.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. DANIELSON: Good afternoon,
3 Governor Chiles, and Cabinet members.
4 My name is Lyle Danielson, and I'm
5 representing the Audubon Society.
6 I've been in Cape Coral for 30 years, and
7 I've seen tremendous changes. And I just feel
8 that we've got to put some control, and,
9 of course, that's what responsible government is
10 all about.
11 And so we agree very strongly with
12 Tom Reese here and the DCA, and we ask you to
13 consider their amendments.
14 Thank you.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
16 MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning.
17 Eva Armstrong representing the Audubon
18 Society in Florida.
19 Most of our chapters are getting involved
20 in the EAR process in all of their counties.
21 Three of the previous four speakers are members
22 of the Audubon Society in Lee County. And the
23 growth management decisions that you make here,
24 when it gets to this point, are very important
25 to them.
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1 We support the recommended final order that
2 the staff has put together. We think it's very
3 clearly written, very fair. We'd like the
4 wetlands provision to be a little bit stronger,
5 but it's a fair compromise, so we urge you to
6 support it.
7 Thanks.
8 DR. BRADLEY: That was just over
9 15 minutes, Governor, about 16 minutes.
10 Now we have some folks that have a slightly
11 different view. In particular, I'd like to
12 bring them all up here at once.
13 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
14 DR. BRADLEY: First will be Ken Oertel from
15 Lee County, followed by Tim Jones from
16 Lee County, Bill Hyde from Alico properties, and
17 Russell Schropp from Zemel property.
18 Ken, why don't you go first.
19 MR. OERTEL: Let me yield to Mr. Hyde and
20 Mr. Schropp. I'm not sure the County will have
21 any comments:
22 MR. HYDE: Good afternoon.
23 My name is William Hyde of Tallahassee,
24 Florida, and I'm here today on behalf of Alico,
25 Inc. With me here today is our trial counsel,
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1 Neale Montgomery; as well as the Chairman and
2 CEO of our Board, Ben Hill Griffin.
3 Secretary Murley posed some findings of
4 fact to you which suggested support for his
5 position. I think there are other findings of
6 fact that support ours.
7 And I think the issue's really been
8 crystallized for you. You can choose the route
9 that Lee County -- excuse me -- that DCA is
10 advocating. I think it's the route of land use
11 planning by number crunching.
12 Or you can choose the route that Lee County
13 and Alico are proposing, at least for the Alico
14 site. And that is, giving due recognition to
15 the particularly characteristics of a site;
16 giving some deference to a local government's
17 determination of what's appropriate for its
18 future needs; and finally, to give some meaning
19 and context to the -- this government's often
20 stated public comments about supporting economic
21 development.
22 The finding of fact that I would like to
23 emphasize for your edification --
24 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
25 MR. HYDE: -- is finding of fact 100. And
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1 I'm quoting here. These are not arguments.
2 These are the direct statements.
3 In terms of location, the amendment
4 property; that is, the Alico property, is
5 perfectly suited for ACUs. I-75 and other AC
6 designated property is to the immediate west of
7 the amendment property. The Southwest Florida
8 Regional -- or International Airport is to the
9 immediate north of the amendment property.
10 A second runway and a new cargo handling
11 facility are planned for construction to the
12 south of the existing airport runway. When
13 built, the new facilities will practically be
14 touching the northern boundary of the amendment
15 property, and the proposed new south airport
16 access will cross the amendment property, and
17 intersect Alico Road, which is the southern
18 boundary of the amendment property.
19 For those of you who haven't seen this
20 aerial photograph, this is the Southwest Florida
21 International Airport. This area bounded in red
22 just below it, to the south of it, is the
23 so-called Alico AC property.
24 So you can see, we are immediately next to
25 the property -- the airport.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Where is the university
2 on that photograph?
3 MR. HYDE: I think the university is a
4 little bit farther south --
5 TREASURER NELSON: That's it where the lake
6 is, isn't it?
7 MR. HYDE: This right here.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Uh-hum.
9 MR. HYDE: Okay.
10 TREASURER NELSON: Does the university
11 property border this subject land?
12 MR. HYDE: It doesn't appear to from this
13 aerial photograph, although it's fairly
14 proximate to it.
15 MS. MONTGOMERY: The property in white down
16 here is the university property right here.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Was that answer yes or
18 no?
19 MR. HYDE: I said, it was fairly proximate,
20 but it does not border it.
21 Okay. I thought I'd made myself clear on
22 that point.
23 Another finding of fact that I think
24 deserves particular emphasis is 107, which
25 states: The County has a legitimate need to
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1 diversify its economy so that it is not so
2 dependent on tourism. It is the County's
3 prerogative to attempt to develop its regional
4 airport into an international trade center.
5 In view of the suitability of the amendment
6 property for AC and its projected role in
7 furthering the County's plans to develop its
8 regional airport into an international trade
9 center, the amendment property should be viewed
10 as a valuable economic resource in need of
11 protection.
12 It is appropriate when trying to protect a
13 resource to plan for the needs of generations to
14 come.
15 There are other findings of fact which
16 basically say that if it's not used for this
17 purpose at some point in the future, it'll
18 probably revert to the uses of rock mine, which
19 will be of a perhaps transitory benefit, but
20 certainly not a permanent benefit like AC would
21 be.
22 I think that Secretary Murley has already
23 suggested the broad outlines of a compromise on
24 this issue, and I would like to urge it. But he
25 has suggested a condition which I don't think is
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1 necessary, and that is that there be some
2 directive for a remedial amendment to the effect
3 that future intrusions into the areas to the
4 east of I-75 be discouraged.
5 I would suggest to you that it's
6 unnecessary for a couple of very basic reasons.
7 First of all, the current land use
8 designations of those properties under the Lee
9 plan don't allow urban uses anyway already.
10 Therefore, they're precluded. If you were going
11 to have -- or permit them, you would have to
12 change the land use map to do so. So it's
13 unnecessary. It's surplusage.
14 Policy 2.4.2, and I won't bore you with it,
15 but it already sets in place a special review
16 process for several areas of -- or several types
17 of lands in -- in the County, most particularly
18 the so-called Density Reduction/Groundwater
19 Resource land use category, which is -- embodies
20 all of these lands there.
21 And then finally, I would like to say that
22 in addition to the fact that I think it's
23 unnecessary, I urge you to be very careful when
24 crafting the terms of a recommendation for
25 remedial action, that you carefully state what
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1 that directive is.
2 To use a term like intrusions into that
3 area is probably a bit too broad. Lawyers can
4 make a lot of deal -- or a lot of hullabaloo
5 about what does an intrusion mean.
6 I would suggest if you want to pursue that
7 route, you preclude or discourage -- let's put
8 it that way -- discourage future land use
9 amendments in the DRGR category. I think
10 everybody would understand what that meant.
11 Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a couple
14 questions?
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sure.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Could you show us that
17 photograph again?
18 MR. HYDE: Yes.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Now, the subject
20 property is about 1400 acres; is that right?
21 MR. HYDE: Yes. More or less.
22 TREASURER NELSON: All right. And the
23 question is: What is future use of that
24 property? Show me the northern boundary of the
25 university property.
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1 MR. HYDE: The northern boundary is
2 approximately right here.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. And what is the
4 ownership of that tract in between?
5 MR. HYDE: This is a rock mining site. I
6 don't know the ownership of that intervening
7 tract. But some -- perhaps someone else could
8 advise me.
9 TREASURER NELSON: What is it being used
10 for?
11 MR. HYDE: Rock mining.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Is that owned by Alico
13 as well?
14 MR. GRIFFIN: This is Alico Road here. The
15 subject property that we're discussing today is
16 north of Alico Road. The university site is
17 here. This is the core campus. The university
18 property goes no further than about right along
19 here.
20 So the -- the university campus is here,
21 some 750 acres, then we have the
22 university community, housing that goes here.
23 We're at a lake. And then you have Alico Road,
24 which then adjoins some two sections,
25 two-and-a-half sections, that is in question
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1 today.
2 And our basic point is we're not asking to
3 do anything with that property today. We just
4 want to have the opportunity that it does not
5 get locked down to the point that at some future
6 date, that if we can, with our -- and the needs
7 of the public, show that this property needs to
8 be utilized for the expansion of the airport,
9 for the hiring of the student body to help them
10 go to school, and enhance the economic
11 development in this area, then at least we would
12 have the opportunity to go before that board and
13 make our request.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Don't put it down yet.
15 Keep it up.
16 COURT REPORTER: Your name, please.
17 MR. GRIFFIN: I'm Ben Hill Griffin, III,
18 I'm sorry.
19 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Does --
20 MR. GRIFFIN: I do know this property.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Did -- did Alico give
22 the land for the university?
23 MR. GRIFFIN: It did, yes, sir.
24 TREASURER NELSON: All -- how many acres?
25 MR. GRIFFIN: One thousand.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: And show me again the
2 north boundary of the university.
3 MR. GRIFFIN: The north boundary of the
4 university --
5 TREASURER NELSON: Of the university land.
6 MR. GRIFFIN: Land --
7 TREASURER NELSON: That was given.
8 MR. GRIFFIN: -- is here.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Is there. What --
10 what's up above then?
11 MR. GRIFFIN: What is up above is owned by
12 Alico.
13 TREASURER NELSON: All right.
14 MR. GRIFFIN: This is land owned by Alico.
15 TREASURER NELSON: All right. And that is
16 presently being used as a rock mine.
17 MR. GRIFFIN: That is correct. And we're
18 under contract with Florida Rock that all mining
19 will cease in this area prior to the opening of
20 the university, which is scheduled for September
21 of '97.
22 It is very interesting to me that when we
23 gave the thousand acres, 750 went to the
24 Board of Regents, and they are the ones that
25 made this configuration. And they also -- we
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1 also gave some 200 acres of endowment land.
2 Ladies and gentlemen, the endowment 200 acres
3 lies right here.
4 So our own Board of Regents has got
5 200 acres that that lies just north of
6 Alico Road, which they, in their judgment,
7 selected for the benefit of the university as --
8 as an endowment, which is north of Alico Road.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Did you make that as a
10 gift to the Board of Regents?
11 MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
12 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, where
13 is the -- the proposed airport expansion at this
14 point, as far as the Department --
15 MR. GRIFFIN: It will come --
16 TREASURER NELSON: -- the Department of
17 Community Affairs.
18 MR. GRIFFIN: Basically it will come south
19 and east.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Could the Secretary
21 point out what -- what is in this
22 Comprehensive Plan being proposed for the
23 expansion of the airport?
24 SECRETARY MURLEY: I don't believe anything
25 is. There is no amendment pending. I believe
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1 that they're working with the FAA. But at some
2 point when they decide that they know the
3 footprint, they'll need a comp plan amendment.
4 That's --
5 TREASURER NELSON: How --
6 SECRETARY MURLEY: -- that's our point.
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- how was the land for
8 the airport acquired? Was it purchased or
9 donated, or both?
10 SECRETARY MURLEY: Commissioner, I have no
11 idea. I do not know. Someone from Lee County
12 may know.
13 MR. JONES: Purchased.
14 SECRETARY MURLEY: Purchased.
15 COURT REPORTER: Your name?
16 MR. JONES: Tim Jones.
17 SECRETARY MURLEY: Tim Jones.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
19 DR. BRADLEY: We're back on track,
20 Governor.
21 We've got -- we added -- I just added
22 5 minutes to -- I gave the 5 minutes to the
23 Commissioner. So we're going to finish at 1:45
24 here.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
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1 MR. SCHROPP: Good afternoon, Governor,
2 Cabinet members.
3 For the record, my name is
4 Russell Schropp. I'm counsel of record for the
5 Zemel family in this proceeding. I have two
6 issues just briefly to touch upon here today.
7 Zemel owns about 8600 acres of land in
8 northwest Lee County. At hearing, we contested
9 a future land use map amendment that placed this
10 property in a newly created Open Lands
11 classification, and we have taken exceptions to
12 the Hearing Officer's recommended order on this
13 issue.
14 And rather than reargue them here before
15 you today, I would simply urge your
16 consideration and approval of same.
17 The second issue deals with a -- a section
18 entitled Implementation of Stipulations in the
19 proposed final order that you have before you.
20 As the draft order states, the County and the
21 Department of Community Affairs entered into two
22 stipulations at or before hearing, the second of
23 which deals with some defective language in the
24 County's adoption ordinance.
25 I was going to urge you to change the
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1 language in the proposed order. But it's my
2 understanding there's been a memorandum sent out
3 yesterday that does that amendment that I've
4 requested under cover of memo from
5 Secretary Bradley dated July 22nd, 1996.
6 And I'll just read it. It says: As
7 amended, the order merely recognizes the second
8 stipulation entered into between Lee County and
9 the Department, but takes no action on that
10 stipulation.
11 And if that's, in fact, what the amended
12 final order does, then I have no issue with
13 that.
14 I would, however, like to include a copy of
15 that memorandum as part of the record in this
16 proceeding.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
18 MR. SCHROPP: If that would be acceptable.
19 Thank you, sir.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Finally, we have Ken Oertel
21 from Lee County again. And he has 6 minutes
22 left.
23 MR. OERTEL: Finally, good afternoon
24 Governor, and members of the Cabinet. I'm
25 Ken Oertel from Oertel, Hoffman, Fernandez &
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1 Cole here in Tallahassee on behalf of
2 Lee County. My comments will be brief.
3 First, Mr. Murley is correct, this case has
4 always been largely about the Lee County
5 overlay. The overlay was adopted in 1989, and
6 it's been an experiment. Lee County's the only
7 county in the state of Florida whose plan
8 incorporates the overlay concept.
9 Mr. Murley was kind enough to concede, it's
10 been a problem for Lee County. Lee County would
11 use a stronger word. It's been a continuous
12 disaster for Lee County.
13 We propose these amendments in an effort to
14 replace the overlay. We thought we had
15 satisfactorily found the apparatus that would
16 substitute an easy to implement control for land
17 use. The Hearing Officer, I think, found with
18 us most of the way, but clearly said more work
19 needs to be done.
20 In a naive world, I would argue with you to
21 reject the Hearing Officer's findings on that,
22 but I don't expect you'd be a kind audience to
23 that.
24 I wish to tell you, we will be back. We do
25 hope we will find the way to find an apparatus
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1 that will be a satisfactory substitute for the
2 overlay. I do want you to know here, because
3 maybe a year or two or less, we hope, from now,
4 you will see how we tried to work to solve this
5 problem.
6 And indisputably, it's been a big problem
7 for Lee County. Lee County's biggest regret is
8 that it ever adopted this overlay. And it's
9 been a nightmare for them, and it'll continue to
10 try to work with it until something that
11 satisfies -- maybe a Hearing Officer can be
12 found.
13 With regard to the Airport Commerce,
14 Lee County is very interested in that. It's an
15 opportunity for the County to develop an
16 international air center in its airport.
17 The Hearing Officer found that Lee County
18 needs to diversify its economy. This is the
19 perfect opportunity for it to do so. And I
20 strongly urge you to reject the concept that's
21 espoused by the Department that Lee County must
22 show it will need this acreage by 2020, which is
23 our horizon year.
24 In a little bit of history, we went through
25 a big fight, and several years ago, we were on
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1 the Department's side on an issue in the
2 Lee County plan. That may surprise you here,
3 but it's true.
4 In the 1990 amendments, we adopted the
5 Density Reduction/Groundwater Resource area for
6 Lee County. It's the large green area. And it
7 comprises over 100 square miles that Lee County
8 voluntarily downzoned to protect its groundwater
9 resources.
10 It's this large area here, an area -- the
11 northern tier of sections.
12 The main purpose of that was to protect
13 Lee County's water supply for future
14 generations. And the land owners objected
15 saying that that supply wasn't needed by 2010,
16 which was our horizon year. But we persuaded
17 the Hearing Officer that when you protect a
18 resource, you should have an infinite planning
19 horizon.
20 And the Hearing Officer in this case
21 agreed. He said, you plan for generations to
22 come. He said that in regard to the
23 Airport Commerce amendment.
24 Now, as Mr. Griffin's shown you here, the
25 surrounding land is zoned for rock mining. And
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1 so is the area for Airport Commerce.
2 Now, the choice is simple here. If you
3 don't allow Lee County to implement this
4 Airport Commerce amendment, I think you can bet
5 that this will be a rock mine within 20 years.
6 Lee County's only hope of expanding its
7 airport to this extent is for this amendment to
8 be approved.
9 Now, if Lee County's wrong, if it can't
10 develop this successfully as an economic center,
11 the land will stay as it is today. It'll be
12 vacant land. It may still become a rock mine,
13 but Lee County hopes it won't.
14 We hope that the owner will be patient, and
15 wait for international air commerce to develop
16 in Lee County sufficient to justify the use of
17 all this land for airport related purposes.
18 So we think the Hearing Officer's findings
19 on this were very favorable to this amendment.
20 And it's a very simple matter for you here now
21 to enter a final order saying that the
22 Airport Commerce amendment should be approved.
23 And we'd all appreciate that very much.
24 And thank you.
25 DR. BRADLEY: I think that's all the
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1 speakers, Governor.
2 Do you have any -- are there questions or
3 any rebuttal that you want?
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, we got into this
5 thing, I'd just like to hear -- we had a little
6 semantics about the conditions on if we saw fit
7 to grant the amendment in the Airport Commerce.
8 Do we have some wording on that? Or does
9 the Department have, or does somebody have, or
10 what --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I've got some --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Make a motion that
13 I think --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Well, then
15 I think that's -- that's --
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. With that,
17 Governor, I'd like to move the recommended final
18 order with one amendment.
19 And in light of the Hearing Officer's
20 findings that the Alico property is perfectly
21 suited to this so-called AC, Airport Commercial,
22 designation, and in light of his findings that
23 the County has a legitimate need to diversify
24 its economy so that it's not so dependent on
25 tourism, I'd like to move that the draft final
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1 order be amended to approve the AC amendment for
2 the Alico property, contingent on Lee County
3 making remedial amendments to its plan by
4 adopting policies to ensure that future plan
5 amendments take into account the commercial and
6 light industrial uses included in the AC
7 designation.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is that --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I would --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- rather than to
12 possibly skip some parliamentary procedure,
13 rather than second it as is, I would ask the
14 Secretary to also consider some possible
15 wording, and that would be: Additionally the
16 County shall make remedial amendments to
17 discourage future land use amendments into the
18 southeast portion of the County.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is that -- do
20 you accept that as an amendment to your
21 amendment --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: As an amendment to the
23 amendment?
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
July 23, 1996
196
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Then do we
2 have a --
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- second.
5 We have a second.
6 Is there discussion?
7 Many as favor the motion as amended,
8 signify by saying aye.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
14 Motion is carried.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We're done.
16 DR. BRADLEY: We're done on that.
17 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
18 concluded.)
19 *
20 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
21 1:50 p.m.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
July 23, 1996
197
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 197 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 2ND day of AUGUST, 1996.
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
