Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
6 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
7 AND MOTOR VEHICLES
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
8 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
9 MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
10 IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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The above agencies came to be heard before
12 THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
13 The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
March 12, 1996, commencing at approximately 9:51 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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22 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
23 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
24 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
January 23, 1996
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Ash Williams, Jr.,
4 Executive Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Approved 5
6 3 Approved 6
4 Approved 6
7 5 Approved 6
6 Approved 6
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
9 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
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1 Approved 8
11 2 Approved 8
3 Approved 8
12 4 Approved 9
5 Approved 9
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
14 (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 11
16 2 Approved 11
17 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
18 Secretary)
19 1 Approved 12
2 Approved 12
20 3 Approved 13
4 Approved 13
21 5 Approved 13
6 Withdrawn 14
22 7 Approved 14
8 Part I Approved 15
23 8 Part II Deferred 18
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
January 23, 1996
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
4 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
(Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
5 Secretary)
6 1 Approved 19
2 Deferred 20
7 3 Approved 30
8 MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION:
(Presented by Charles L. Shelfer, Esquire,
9 General Counsel)
10 A Approved 31
B Approved 35
11 C Approved 36
12 BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
13 TRUST FUND:
(Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
14 Secretary)
15 1 Approved 37
2 Approved 37
16 3 Approved 37
4 Approved 37
17 5 Approved 38
6 Approved 38
18 7 Deferred 57
8 Approved 105
19 9 Approved 106
20 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 107
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 12, 1996
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:11 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now we'll start with the
4 State Board of Administration.
5 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 1 is the minutes of the
6 February 27 meeting.
7 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's agreed to.
11 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 2 is a fiscal
12 sufficiency for the Board of Regents,
13 University of South Florida Housing Facility
14 Revenue Bonds.
15 TREASURER NELSON: And I move it.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's agreed to.
19 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 3 is a fiscal
20 sufficiency for the Department of
21 Environmental Protection, Preservation 2000
22 Bonds.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 12, 1996
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 4 is a fiscal
3 sufficiency from the Florida
4 Housing Finance Agency.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's agreed to.
8 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 5 is an interest rate
9 exception for the Lake St. Charles Community
10 Development District.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, that's agreed to.
15 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 6 is an interest rate
16 exception for the Julington Creek Plantation
17 Community Development District.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, that's agreed to.
22 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
March 12, 1996
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1 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
2 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 12, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
3 the minutes of the February 27 meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 authorizes a
8 competitive sale of 2.1 million in revenue bonds
9 for a dormitory for University of
10 South Florida's new college campus.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, that's agreed to.
15 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 authorizes a
16 competitive sale of 245 million dollars of
17 revenue refunding bonds for
18 Department of Environmental Protection
19 Preservation 2000 program in order to achieve a
20 debt service savings for the state.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a resolution
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 12, 1996
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1 authorizing the issuance and negotiated sale of
2 14 million dollars in tax exempt revenue
3 refunding bonds, and 3 million dollars in
4 taxable revenue refunding bonds for the Florida
5 Housing Finance Agency.
6 TREASURER NELSON: Motion.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's agreed to.
10 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is a report of
11 award of 242.7 million dollars in capital outlay
12 bonds for education. The bonds were sold to the
13 low bidder on February 15th at an interest rate
14 of 4.93 percent.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 Looks like a good interest rate.
20 MR. WATKINS: It's a very, very good
21 interest rate for the local school districts of
22 the state of Florida.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
March 12, 1996
10
1 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
2 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
March 12, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of
2 Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
3 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, item 1 is request
4 approval for a contract on customer services
5 refurbishing of -- out at our Department.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is approval to
11 purchase a service from Florida Association of
12 Broadcasters for $140,000 worth of PSAs, a
13 safety message from our Florida Highway Patrol.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you.
20 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
21 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
22 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
12
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Administrative
2 Commission.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Need your oranges
4 this morning, Bob.
5 DR. BRADLEY: Yes, sir. Sorry.
6 Administration Commission, Item 1,
7 recommend approval of the minutes of the meeting
8 held February 27th, 1996.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, recommend the
14 establishment of positions in excess of the
15 number fixed by the Legislature in the
16 Department of Revenue.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 DR. BRADLEY: And number 3, recommend the
22 transfer of general revenue appropriations in
23 the Justice Administration.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
13
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Number 4, recommend the
4 establishment of four positions in excess of the
5 number fixed by the Legislature in the Florida
6 Department of Law Enforcement.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move it.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 5, recommend the
13 transfer of fixed capital outlay appropriations
14 in the Department of Transportation.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 6, we'd request
21 withdrawal of this matter pending a conclusion
22 of settlement negotiations, and direct the
23 parties to provide a status report to the
24 Secretary of the Commission in 60 days as to the
25 progress of the settlement.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 7, request
7 acceptance of the Department of Community
8 Affairs recommendation, and extend the area of
9 critical state concern designation for the
10 Florida Keys area for another year.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 8 contains two
16 parts. It's a two-part recommendation.
17 The first part is: Request the Board of
18 Trustees of the Internal Improvement Trust Fund
19 to authorize the Department of Environmental
20 Protection to aggressively pursue land within
21 Monroe County CARL projects utilizing appraisals
22 based on land use regulations in effect as of
23 January 1st, 1996.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
3 Part I.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 DR. BRADLEY: Part II is request deferral
6 of further consideration of the Monroe County
7 Comprehensive Plan as to the March 28th, 1996,
8 Commission meeting.
9 And we have some individuals here to speak
10 on this for questions.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Was your recommendation
12 to defer it to March the 28th?
13 DR. BRADLEY: Yes, sir.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. If the people
15 are here, we'll let them speak.
16 DR. BRADLEY: The first is Stephanie Gehres
17 from DCA.
18 MS. TINKER: She's just here for questions.
19 DR. BRADLEY: Oh, okay.
20 The next one is Bob Apgar for
21 Monroe County.
22 MR. APGAR: Governor, members of the
23 Cabinet, Bob Apgar for Monroe County.
24 I just wanted to express again the
25 Commission's invitation to you to come down to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 Monroe County, and tell you that if you need the
2 additional time to make those trips possible,
3 the County has no objection to delaying this
4 item to the May agenda.
5 I understand there's some planning
6 underway. And we are glad some of the members
7 are coming. We hope all of you will take the
8 opportunity to come.
9 Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
11 DR. BRADLEY: Next, Richard Grosso of
12 1000 Friends.
13 MR. GROSSO: Good morning, Governor Chiles,
14 members of the Cabinet. I'm Richard Grosso with
15 1000 Friends.
16 We support hearing the matter again on
17 March 28th. We had the hearing officer's
18 findings in July of 1995. Since then, water
19 quality's worse, deterioration only continues.
20 What you would be doing March 28th is
21 telling staff to again initiate rulemaking,
22 which, if all goes well, DCA doesn't agree to
23 continuances, would still take nine to
24 twelve months to finish.
25 So we continue to have this sense of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 urgency that we move just as swiftly as we can,
2 because we are not seeing progress on the
3 ground.
4 And the other last comment that I want to
5 make is that in the interim period, please
6 direct the agencies, DCA chief among them, to
7 get to the bottom of the economics that are
8 going on here.
9 We are spending more money trying to
10 develop the Keys than we are trying to restore
11 them. We are at a critical juncture with this
12 state's policy.
13 We still find it very difficult to
14 understand why we're spending 154 million
15 dollars to try to widen the 18-mile stretch,
16 when we don't have the money to fix the problems
17 that we know exist, and we're having trouble
18 keeping off the pressure against reducing the
19 current rate of growth.
20 And so why would they spend that kind of
21 money just to increase those growth pressures
22 when money is so scarce already is a big
23 decision that we think that the state ought to
24 reconsider at this critical juncture in the
25 history of the Florida Keys.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 So thank you. We hope you will vote on
2 March 28th.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
4 Is there a motion?
5 TREASURER NELSON: I move --
6 DR. BRADLEY: We have --
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- to defer --
8 DR. BRADLEY: -- one more person, Governor,
9 who wanted --
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Oh --
11 DR. BRADLEY: -- to --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- excuse me.
13 DR. BRADLEY: Eva Armstrong with the
14 Audubon --
15 MS. ARMSTRONG: That's okay. I'll just
16 echo Mr. Grosso's comments.
17 TREASURER NELSON: I move to defer to a
18 date certain, March 28th.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
23 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida Land and Water
2 Adjudicatory Commission.
3 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1, request
4 approval of the minutes of the February 27th,
5 1996, Commission meeting.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2 is a request
11 authorization to enter the -- a draft final
12 order. And we have two individuals to speak.
13 The first is Richard Coker, representing
14 the Park Central Industrial.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Is this item not going
16 to be deferred?
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes, I'd like to defer
18 it.
19 DR. BRADLEY: It -- we -- that wasn't the
20 staff recommendation. But --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
22 MR. COKER: Governor, Richard Coker for the
23 Petitioner. If this item is going to be
24 deferred, I'd just as soon make my recom-- my
25 comments at the next meeting.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good. I thought you
2 would want that opportunity.
3 Is there --
4 DR. BRADLEY: There was one more speaker.
5 Stephanie Gehres of DCA.
6 MS. GEHRES: Commissioners, I'm
7 Stephanie Gehres, General Counsel for DCA. We
8 would also reserve comment if the item's going
9 to be deferred.
10 We will say that we do support the draft
11 final order.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Anybody
13 else?
14 DR. BRADLEY: No, sir.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: There's a motion to
16 defer.
17 Is there a second?
18 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's deferred.
21 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 3, request
22 authorization to enter the draft order of
23 transmittal for forwarding the appeal to the
24 Division of Administrative Hearings for
25 assignment of a hearing officer, and further
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 proceedings with directions to the
2 hearing officer to first rule on the motion to
3 dismiss filed by Charles River Laboratories.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
5 DR. BRADLEY: We have a whole series of
6 people on -- on this issue to explain it some to
7 you.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
9 DR. BRADLEY: The first individual who
10 wanted to speak was Richard Grosso.
11 MR. GROSSO: Good morning,
12 Governor Chiles --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
14 MR. GROSSO: -- members of the Cabinet.
15 I'm Richard Grosso, and I'm here
16 representing a citizen of Monroe County and a
17 biologist and a fishing guide by the name of
18 Curtis Kruer, who's been following this long
19 history of these two offshore islands. They
20 have a very long history. These activities
21 began about in the mid-1970s.
22 About immediately thereafter, all of the
23 people's fears about what might happen when we
24 start breeding monkeys on two offshore islands
25 in the Keys came true.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 In 1988, DER entered into consent orders
2 because of the devastation of these two
3 islands. In November of 1995, they just filed a
4 motion in the Circuit Court saying that the
5 consent orders had been violated in significant
6 material ways, seeking the immediate removal of
7 all structures and the monkeys.
8 They have yet to call that motion up for
9 hearing. They haven't moved on that motion at
10 all.
11 At the same time, the Game Commission is
12 entertaining a new permit to keep captive
13 monkeys out there. Without that permit, they
14 cannot continue these activities. The
15 Game Commission has expressed reluctance to deny
16 that permit.
17 DCA has appealed and brought to you the
18 permit issued by Monroe County, an after the
19 fact permit for structures that were put there
20 without benefit of a county permit.
21 DEP and the Game Commission, in some effort
22 to argue plausibly that the monkeys are being
23 controlled, and they're not, have suggested that
24 the company get cages and pens, and fence the
25 animals to reduce the amount of destruction.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 The only problem is, those things are
2 prohibited by the Monroe County Land Development
3 Code. And although the County denied some
4 permits, some of the after the fact permits,
5 they've issued some, DCA says they violate the
6 Code. That's what they've challenged, that's
7 what they've brought before you.
8 And so we support the recommendation that
9 you send that challenge to the Division of
10 Administrative Hearings.
11 But this issue is not just these two
12 breeding pens and cages. There are a lot of
13 structures on both of these islands that have
14 been there illegally under local, state, and
15 federal law for a long time.
16 The agency files are just thicker than
17 anything I've ever seen, but it's not just, we
18 think this is going to happen, this has
19 happened, total devastation of these islands.
20 At the time when -- when this Cabinet is
21 putting extremely stringent restrictions on what
22 single family home owners can do in the Keys,
23 people in the Keys are wondering why a
24 multimillion dollar corporation is able to make
25 commercial activity on offshore islands in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 Keys, devastating islands, blatantly not living
2 up to promises that has been in consent orders
3 and injunc-- court orders for years.
4 And we are not seeking the immediate
5 removal of the monkeys.
6 We understand -- understand that DCA and
7 DEP and HRS are talking about a joint
8 restoration plan that they would give to the
9 company. They've violated restoration plans
10 before.
11 We also understand that part of that
12 restoration plan will be a plan to -- although
13 DCA has challenged breeding pens and cages here,
14 to give them more breeding pens and cages, maybe
15 30 to 60 more, so that we can cage the animals.
16 That's going in the wrong direction.
17 We are seeking from you direction to DEP,
18 suggestion to Game and Fish, direction to DCA to
19 seek the immediate removal of the monkeys as
20 soon as can physically be accomplished out
21 there.
22 There's no bond on these -- on these two
23 islands. Every day that the devastation
24 continues, and it gets worse every day,
25 restoration gets a lot less likely, a lot more
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 expensive.
2 We're going to be left towing the bag to
3 try to restore these islands 50 year -- 2012 and
4 2015 when their leases run out. They violated
5 their leases.
6 They haven't lived up to their end of the
7 bargain, and the state should say that. The
8 state should say, you've got to leave now.
9 Because we have no way of guaranteeing we're
10 ever going to restore those islands.
11 This is a big issue, it's gone on for
12 20 years now. And people have been unwilling to
13 do their part to get these monkeys off of these
14 islands.
15 That's why we came to speak to you today.
16 We're asking you to do more than just send this
17 particular permit challenge to DOAH. We're
18 asking you to direct the agencies to enforce
19 their rules.
20 Game and Fish could deny the captive
21 wildlife permit, and they would have to leave.
22 DEP could live up to what it said in its motion
23 to enforce in Circuit Court and seek the
24 immediate removal of the monkeys. They haven't
25 done that.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 We have communicated with some of you,
2 we've had responses, and we appreciate that. We
3 want you to look at the larger picture today,
4 and tell those agencies it's time to enforce
5 state law. These are public resources that a
6 commercial breeding activity is using at a
7 pittance, and they're devastating forever. We
8 may not ever be able to restore these islands.
9 This is very serious. It's gone on for a
10 long time. We urge you to give that direction
11 to the agencies today.
12 There's a long history behind these
13 projects, and I'd be happy to answer any
14 questions that I could today.
15 Thank you.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any questions?
17 Thank you.
18 DR. BRADLEY: Eva Armstrong of the
19 Audubon Society would like to speak.
20 MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning, Governor,
21 members of the Cabinet, Eva Armstrong
22 representing Florida Audubon.
23 Florida Audubon has been on record opposed
24 to the monkeys on this island from years back.
25 And what I would encourage you to do,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
March 12, 1996
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1 particularly those that are thinking about going
2 down to Monroe County, fly over the islands,
3 because you will see in 5 minutes the impact the
4 monkeys have had, not only on the stripping of
5 foliage off the bushes, but the water quality
6 from the run-off on these islands. It is
7 incredibly eye opening to see it.
8 We urge you to go forward with the hearing.
9 Thanks.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I -- it must
11 have been about six years ago when this item
12 first came to the Cabinet. I think you were
13 sitting down there --
14 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- on that
16 first row at that time.
17 And we saw a number of pictures where,
18 in essence, the monkeys were eating the island.
19 And I don't know how much foliage is even left.
20 If you can get us some recent pictures, I'd
21 appreciate that. Because it was pretty bad
22 before. We thought we had a resolution, and I
23 was surprised --
24 MS. ARMSTRONG: To see it back.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- to see it
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1 back, really. Because I thought that the issue
2 had been resolved. It is -- it is really
3 totally devastating the island.
4 And for the Cabinet members who were not
5 here six years ago, which is probably everybody
6 but me I guess, and Bob, that really -- that
7 seriously really is a -- an issue. I do
8 encourage you all to go visit. You'll be very,
9 very surprised.
10 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
11 Yes, sir. I'll get those pictures for you.
12 Thank you.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.
14 DR. BRADLEY: Bob Routa representing
15 Charles River Laboratories would like to speak.
16 MR. ROUTA: Governor, members of the
17 Commission, good morning. Bob Routa. I've been
18 here before.
19 And this is not a recent project. This
20 Board granted the first permit in the early
21 1970s to dredge the first channel to Key Lois
22 with a tugboat, by blowing the channel out with
23 a tugboat.
24 The company has been there for over
25 20 years. The company has attempted to comply
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1 with every regulation.
2 When it last came before you, it was the
3 ratification of a consent final judgment in
4 Circuit Court. The company has complied with
5 that consent final judgment.
6 What has happened is Mr. Kruer in the Keys,
7 starting in the late 1980s, has fought this
8 project. And now he has Richard Grosso, who
9 knows how to work with every agency to get
10 maximum impact for these objections.
11 You folks are coming to the Keys, some of
12 you. We would invite you to visit the islands.
13 Rather than the mass destruction, which is being
14 told to you, which there was damage occurred in
15 the late '70s when there was a buildup of
16 population, the islands are well on the road to
17 recovery. This can be seen with your own eyes.
18 You don't need pictures, you don't need
19 reports.
20 We would welcome each of you to come and to
21 visit the islands.
22 We don't have any objection to the
23 recommendation today. We're going to try to
24 negotiate a new agreement with the agencies. We
25 already have a verbal agreement with DEP that we
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1 are acting under.
2 So I'd just like to invite you to come and
3 see for yourself rather than listening to what
4 Mr. Grosso has to say.
5 Thank you.
6 DR. BRADLEY: That's all the speakers,
7 Governor.
8 That's all the speakers.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Did you move?
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I moved it,
11 Governor.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I second it.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
14 seconded.
15 Without objection, the recommendation is
16 passed.
17 DR. BRADLEY: That's all.
18 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
19 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
20 *
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees.
2 MR. SHELFER: Marine Fisheries Commission.
3 Item A is an emergency rule to allow
4 shrimping in an area of Apalachicola Bay that's
5 closed by special act that has been trawled for
6 at least 16 years.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Excuse me.
9 Marine Fisheries.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection.
14 MR. SHELFER: Item B is a rule amendment
15 which imposes a bag limit of two per day on the
16 single species of live shellfish along the
17 shoreline of Manatee County.
18 We have two persons who would like to speak
19 very briefly on the item.
20 First is Dorothy McChesney from
21 Anna Maria.
22 MS. McCHESNEY: Good morning,
23 Governor Chiles, and members --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
25 MS. McCHESNEY: -- of the Cabinet.
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1 Thank you very much for allowing me to come
2 and speak on behalf of the people and residents
3 of Manatee County.
4 I am so grateful to Don Hansen and
5 Russell Nelson and the members of the Florida
6 Marine Fisheries Commission for listening to our
7 requests, and for moving forward on it today
8 with the southwest Florida shells, which you now
9 have before you.
10 You can see all the reasons that we want
11 it. It's been going on now for three years.
12 We've been working on this, we've had all the
13 hearings, all the law enforcement officers from
14 every city. All six cities in Manatee County
15 have agreed to enforce it should you pass it.
16 And I was wondering if you had gotten -- I
17 know the Florida Marine Fisheries have gotten
18 more mail on this than probably any other
19 issue.
20 I wondered if you got the 19 letters from
21 the school, Governor Chiles, from Anna Maria
22 school, that the fifth graders wrote why they
23 would like you to pass this rule.
24 I don't know if it came to you, but I had
25 hoped it would get to you in time.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: It did.
2 MS. McCHESNEY: It's just an example of all
3 the efforts that's gone into this. The children
4 want it, the residents want it, the cities want
5 it. The commissioners of every city passed this
6 rule.
7 So -- resolutions for this.
8 So we do hope that you will pass it today,
9 so we can go back with happy news that our live
10 shells will be partially protected.
11 Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
13 MR. SHELFER: Commissioner Don Hansen.
14 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
15 MR. HANSEN: Good morning, Governor --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
17 MR. HANSEN: -- Cabinet.
18 First, I want to say to you, after
19 175 years, I think you're doing a very, very
20 excellent job.
21 And I -- the Marine Fisheries Commission
22 staff and the members appreciate the fine effort
23 that you have been doing in helping to preserve
24 the fish over the state of Florida.
25 Bob, I want to say to you, we didn't have
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1 any iceberg for you today to preach on, but -- I
2 don't know if everybody -- if they read the
3 article, but I read it at daylight this morning,
4 and appreciate your strong effort.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Thank you.
6 MR. HANSEN: But I want to refer back to
7 one thing. And that was the Wednesday,
8 November the 29th --
9 Bob, you weren't here at that meeting. But
10 it was a very exciting meeting. And since that
11 time, I have called every day -- that was on a
12 Wednesday, November the 29th. And since that
13 time, I have addressed most days as Wednesday,
14 because it was -- it was really a very, very
15 wonderful thing that happened that day, and
16 thousands and thousands of people that I have
17 spoken to since that time have said and sent
18 their appreciation to the Governor and the
19 Cabinet for their fine effort.
20 But I just want to say on the
21 Manatee County shellfish, the live shellfish,
22 that we hope that you will pass this. We have
23 put a great deal of effort into it for the
24 people of Manatee County.
25 And as you have heard, the
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1 County Commission and Anna Maria and Palmetto,
2 and the rest of the county and the cities
3 around, have approved this, and the children
4 have approved it. And it seems as though most
5 of the people have approved it.
6 And so I just want to relate to you that we
7 certainly appreciate your vote today to pass
8 this.
9 Thank you very much.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'll move
12 the item.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
15 seconded.
16 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection, the
18 item's approved.
19 MR. SHELFER: Item C is a rule amendment
20 that imposes a special bag limit on the
21 recreational harvest of amberjack in
22 Monroe County.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. SHELFER: Thank you.
4 (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 *
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1 is a quarterly
3 management report.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move acceptance.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's accepted.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2 is a purchase
9 agreement for the Department of Agriculture.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 is a purchase
15 agreement for the Department of Agriculture.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4 is a purchase
21 agreement for Department of Agriculture.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Are you
2 buying the whole state, Bob?
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No. We were going
4 to leave a few dollars. It's pretty small.
5 MS. WETHERELL: Item 5, three option
6 agreements for Florida First Magnitude Springs
7 project.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Item 6 is an option
13 agreement for the Wekiva-Ocala Greenways
14 project.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7, we're recommending
21 withdrawal at the applicant's request. But,
22 Governor, there are a number of speakers who
23 wish to very briefly speak so they won't waive
24 their time for the time that it is scheduled on
25 the agenda.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is this
2 deferral, or flat out withdrawal?
3 MS. WETHERELL: They requested withdrawal,
4 meaning that there's no time certain that it
5 would come back.
6 TREASURER NELSON: Well, Governor, I would
7 like to move to a date certain so that we know
8 what we're doing, and we don't have this limbo.
9 And I would move to the date certain of the
10 next Cabinet meeting on this issue, which would
11 be March the 28th.
12 Of course, hearing from the folks that are
13 here as well.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Would you like to
15 hear from --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They're not
17 withdrawing their application, they're only
18 withdrawing the item.
19 MS. WETHERELL: That's why --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Were they
21 actually withdrawing their entire paperwork and
22 everything. That was really my question.
23 MS. WETHERELL: No. That's not my
24 understanding. They've requested withdrawal.
25 And the procedure we've always used for
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1 withdrawal is that you use that when you don't
2 want to set a time certain. Otherwise, it's
3 deferral until a -- the next Cabinet meeting.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, who
5 put this on for this Cabinet meeting? Did they
6 ask for it to go on?
7 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. For withdrawal.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: For withdrawal.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If
10 they'll -- but they -- was it automatically on
11 for this meeting, or did they ask for it to come
12 off? Because the last time it was here, I
13 thought that we weren't going to see this thing
14 for about six months --
15 MS. WETHERELL: Well, you --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- and it --
17 and then it comes right back --
18 So was it put on administratively, or was
19 it put on at the request of the County?
20 MS. WETHERELL: When you made the -- when
21 the motion was made at the last Cabinet meeting,
22 it was made for deferral. And so that
23 automatically puts it --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh. And
25 then --
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1 MS. WETHERELL: -- back on. That's the
2 rule, it automatically comes back on --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So they did
4 not request -- I thought they requested it to
5 come up quicker, then they can withdraw it. If
6 that was the case, that's --
7 MS. WETHERELL: When you defer it, unless
8 you say defer until a date certain, it comes
9 back on the --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh --
11 MS. WETHERELL: -- next time.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- okay.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I'm not locked
14 into that particular date.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I just -- I think
16 that's awful early. It sounds like --
17 MS. WETHERELL: Oh. I am so sorry. I've
18 been corrected.
19 Kirby says that they -- that last time it
20 was moved for withdrawal, and that they
21 requested it back on.
22 So I stand corrected. I'm sorry.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I have
24 a problem with that. I mean, from the
25 standpoint that when something is withdrawn,
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1 then somebody puts it back on.
2 And what was the date of the letter of
3 withdrawal?
4 MR. GREEN: Yesterday.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yesterday.
6 So my understanding, a lot of people came
7 up, and then the applicant, who asked for it to
8 be on, says, wait a minute, ten people are going
9 to be there against me. And then they say,
10 let's withdraw it.
11 That's not fair.
12 So if they want to withdraw their entire
13 request for a permit, that's what I thought they
14 were doing. But just withdrawing the item, I --
15 I don't know. That's just not fair, Governor,
16 in any way.
17 TREASURER NELSON: I don't think it is
18 either.
19 Would late April be an agreeable time?
20 Let's get a particular date certain so that
21 everybody knows, and then it can be fairly
22 noticed. And quit keeping all these people in
23 limbo.
24 Is late April a good time for everybody?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You're -- you're not
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1 asking --
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think I'm --
3 TREASURER NELSON: Well then, I -- then I
4 would move the late April Cabinet meeting as a
5 date certain.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I second that
7 motion.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
9 moved and seconded.
10 Now, are there people that would like to
11 speak today because they've come up here?
12 MS. WETHERELL: That's my understanding.
13 We have, 2, 4, and 10 who wish to very briefly
14 speak against. Bevin Beaudet from County --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, my
16 memory, Governor, that's about two months. I
17 may forget a lot of this.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: I --
19 MR. BEAUDET: Thank you very much, Governor
20 and members of --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'm not going to comment
22 on your memory. But I think that the -- people
23 take a certain chance when they -- they don't
24 come back.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, that's
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1 true. But I think they -- they will be
2 coming -- I'm sure they'll be coming back.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: But if they come up here,
4 we want to let them --
5 Yes, sir.
6 MR. BEAUDET: Thank you. Governor, and
7 members of the Florida Cabinet.
8 My name is Bevin Beaudet, I'm Assistant
9 Administrator for Palm Beach County
10 Environmental Services. Thank you for the
11 opportunity to briefly address you.
12 Replacement of the Juno Pier is important
13 to the County. It's an issue that we have been
14 working on for over ten years.
15 Palm Beach County has an enviable
16 environmental record. We've passed six major
17 environmental ordinances, all stricter than the
18 requirements of the state.
19 These ordinances are enforced by a staff of
20 more than 60 people in our Environmental
21 Resource Management Department, including three
22 permanent employees, and six student employees
23 in our sea turtle section whose sole job it is
24 to enforce our sea turtle ordinance, and monitor
25 our turtle activity.
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1 County citizens have voted to tax
2 themselves three times in the last ten years to
3 acquire and preserve environmentally sensitive
4 lands.
5 In the mid-'80s, the County passed a beach
6 bond and a park bond issue, which has resulted
7 in the acquisition of hundreds of acres of
8 beachfront property, much of which is slated for
9 preservation forever for posterity, and much of
10 which is on this stretch of beach that we are
11 debating at the present time.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sir, may
13 I -- I don't mean to interrupt you. I -- who do
14 you represent?
15 MR. BEAUDET: Palm Beach County. I'm
16 almost finished with the sales pitch if you --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, yeah.
18 Why are you trying to sell something that
19 your Chairman of the County Commission asked to
20 withdraw?
21 MR. BEAUDET: Okay. I'd -- I'd like to --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah. See,
23 if you --
24 MR. BEAUDET: Just let me finish one issue
25 on the ordinance, and --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. But if
2 you're here --
3 MR. BEAUDET: Right.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- let's
5 hear it.
6 MR. BEAUDET: Okay. The other --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Unless you
8 oppose --
9 MR. BEAUDET: -- issue on the ordinance --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
11 withdrawing it.
12 MR. BEAUDET: -- is that 100 million dollar
13 environmentally sensitive land ordinance is also
14 acquiring land in this area.
15 The point I'm trying to make is that the
16 County is a strong environmental county. We do
17 not want to move forward with any project that
18 would harm the environment. That's the issue
19 that we have here.
20 Now, we believe that the facts, as they are
21 right now, as we understand them, along with the
22 restrictions in the permit, would not harm the
23 environment.
24 However, questions have arisen just this
25 past week. We have not seen the data or the
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1 facts about this, we would like to take a look
2 at it.
3 We would also like to sit down with the
4 environmental organizations that are bringing up
5 these issues, talk to them about it, reassure
6 them of the County's commitment to do an
7 environmentally sound project, and see where it
8 goes from there.
9 And that's basically --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sir, that
11 was the whole reason for deferral last time, was
12 for the County to sit down with the
13 environmental people. You put this thing on for
14 the next meeting, and that's why I'm saying,
15 I -- I don't think this is fair what you're
16 doing.
17 And if anybody should be speaking, it
18 should not be you, it should be the
19 environmentalists who came up here thinking that
20 they were going to have to fight this issue
21 today.
22 So please don't argue your position, unless
23 you want to take a vote on it today. I'm ready
24 to take a vote right now.
25 MR. BEAUDET: I'm not -- I'm not arguing
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1 the position. What I wanted to do was to assure
2 you of the County's commitment to environmental
3 issues, just to let you know what our record is,
4 and I think that's a very strong one.
5 And point out that we are asking for the
6 delay as part of this record because we want to
7 continue to make sure that our position is
8 strong on the environmental side.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have no
10 more questions, Governor.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Just three others have
13 decided that they want to briefly speak:
14 Jennifer Homcy, Mr. Daniels, and Manley Fuller.
15 If you'll just come forward, please.
16 MR. DANIELS: Good morning,
17 Governor Chiles, and members of the Cabinet. My
18 name is Don Daniels, I'm a Jupiter Town Council
19 member. I'll make it very brief.
20 We are very disappointed in the County
21 putting this on this agenda, and then removing
22 it after we were here in Tallahassee.
23 This is taxpayer's money. I have to answer
24 to my constituents when I go back. We're going
25 to make sure the County hears from their
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1 constituents.
2 I would like to -- at this time, I'm going
3 to cancel my attorney speaking, because we don't
4 want to present our case.
5 I would like to just let Jennifer introduce
6 the environmentalists that are here. And we'll
7 be very brief.
8 Thank you.
9 MS. HOMCY: Hi, Governor and Cabinet. My
10 name is Jennifer Homcy, and I spoke with you
11 last time.
12 I just wanted to acknowledge the situation
13 and thank you for your support and -- and giving
14 us some sort of idea of where to take this next.
15 I also want to introduce -- and I'm just
16 going to briefly have these people stand up so
17 that you acknowledge their presence from these
18 organizations, and which organizations they
19 represent that came here today prepared to speak
20 to you, and prepared to give you a presentation.
21 If you would like to hear from them, they
22 are prepared for that. And if not, I'm just
23 going to introduce them.
24 We have David Godfrey, from the Caribbean
25 Conserv-- I'm sorry, from the Sea Turtle
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1 Survival League.
2 And Larry Obrin from the Caribbean
3 Conservation Corps.
4 We have Susie Caplowe with Sierra, Florida
5 Sierra, and Florida Consumer Action Network.
6 We have Eva Armstrong from Audubon.
7 We have Peggy Ross from the Sea Turtle
8 Preservation Society.
9 Did I forget anybody?
10 We had a representative from Save a Turtle
11 on their way up. We were able to get ahold of
12 them and cancel their flight.
13 And we also have Manley Fuller, who wants
14 to speak with you on behalf of Florida Wildlife
15 Federation.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask her,
17 all of these people, they were to be here to
18 speak in opposition to the pier --
19 MS. HOMCY: They were --
20 TREASURER NELSON: -- is that correct?
21 MR. HOMCY: They were here to speak in
22 opposition of the pier. Located -- its location
23 in Juno Beach.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
25 And they are here representing those
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1 organizations that you just --
2 MS. HOMCY: Yes.
3 TREASURER NELSON: -- enumerated.
4 MS. HOMCY: Yes, they are.
5 MR. DANIELS: Can I just say one more
6 thing, please?
7 I've been asked by our attorney if we could
8 defer this until after the session is over,
9 which would be in early May. Apparently it's a
10 hardship to find hotels and transportation to
11 get here during the session.
12 So that would be my only --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that's a good
14 idea. We need the business after the session.
15 MR. FULLER: Governor and Cabinet,
16 Manley Fuller.
17 Several people noted the last time this
18 issue came before you all, I was silent. At
19 that time, we didn't have a position. I hadn't
20 been to the sites.
21 We clearly support fishing and recreational
22 opportunities, and we support sea turtle
23 conservation. So the issue, as for you, it's
24 posed to us some questions.
25 I visited all the -- the inlet, the
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1 proposed pier site, the old pier site, and the
2 Riviera Beach area; looked at all of those;
3 considered the -- the proposed restrictions on
4 the pier.
5 And it seems to -- it appears to us that
6 there are several things that need to be
7 considered.
8 If -- it was -- it was brought up that
9 there would be improvements in the inlet, and
10 some additional fishing opportunities there.
11 Well, I think that's the case.
12 But as -- as the Governor pointed out last
13 meeting, that's a specialized kind of fishing
14 that's heavy -- heavy gear. And we think that's
15 a good recreational opportunity. But that
16 doesn't equate to pier fishing.
17 We looked at the proposed site, which is
18 one of the highest sea turtle nesting areas in
19 existence, and we went down to Riviera Beach,
20 and we also looked at the old pier site.
21 It appears to us that the Riviera Beach
22 site -- and there may be other sites in the
23 County -- would make an excellent pier
24 location. It -- they have lower turtle density,
25 and they could provide a more fisherman, angler
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1 friendly fishing pier.
2 The idea of having a pier -- a fishing pier
3 in south Florida that's not used in the evening
4 is -- doesn't seem to us to be a particularly
5 good proposal.
6 I mean, if people are out there catching
7 pompano late in the afternoon, and somebody
8 comes along and says, let's get off the pier now
9 because we're going to close down for the
10 turtles, we see that as a situation where
11 there'll be very strong pressure to remove the
12 restrictions. Now, you all certainly have the
13 power to maintain them.
14 But why support restrictions on a fishing
15 pier that would result in -- that aren't
16 particularly angler friendly.
17 So we would -- we would simply say, we
18 think the idea of a fishing pier in the northern
19 part of Palm Beach County to central portion of
20 Palm Beach County makes good sense, and would be
21 a good thing to support.
22 But we think it ought to be located where
23 the level of restrictions due to the turtle
24 presence would be -- would be less of a problem.
25 So we would urge you to not support this
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1 proposal, but to -- but to urge the County to
2 come back with a proposal for a lease in the
3 other -- in another -- perhaps in a slightly
4 different -- in a different location with a
5 lower turtle density.
6 Certainly a pier like that would need to
7 have the lighting restrictions. But the -- but
8 having a pier that you can't use in the summer
9 at night doesn't seem to -- to us to be a good
10 proposal.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
12 MR. FULLER: So thank you very much.
13 Any questions?
14 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask a
15 question?
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
17 TREASURER NELSON: It'll be quick.
18 It was also my understanding that the
19 Florida Audubon Society was silent last time,
20 and Jennifer just introduced them as being in --
21 opposed to it.
22 I'd like to hear Florida Audubon's
23 statement as to their silence last time, and
24 their opposition today.
25 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
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1 Eva Armstrong, representing
2 Florida Audubon.
3 The silence the last time was totally my
4 fault. I -- it was the first Cabinet meeting on
5 a new job. And when I heard the presentation
6 about the pier at the Cabinet aides meetings,
7 following Florida Audubon strategic plans and
8 policies, it was, this is not a place to build a
9 pier. This -- the high turtle nesting makes it
10 a bad place.
11 So I went about lobbying your staff on that
12 position. Unbeknownst to me, the local chapter
13 had been very involved in the pier.
14 And Florida Audubon has a formal process in
15 place when there's a disagreement between a
16 local chapter and Florida Audubon. We have
17 people that sit down; we look at the issue; and
18 in the end, may agree to disagree, which is what
19 we've ultimately done here.
20 But because of my newness on the job, it
21 didn't even occur to me that I needed to call
22 somebody in Palm Beach. And they didn't hear
23 about it until over the weekend before the
24 Cabinet meeting. And by Monday, all you know
25 what broke loose.
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1 So in talking with my new boss,
2 Clay Henderson and I, what we wanted to do was
3 work with the local chapter, because I had made
4 a big mistake.
5 And so the game plan at that time was to
6 see if I could get you guys to put a condition
7 that would say, if there are any amendments to
8 these conditions filed, it has to come back to
9 you. Well, that didn't happen.
10 And in the interim, we've had our turtle
11 guys looking at this. They're -- we just -- we
12 just can't see any way to put enough conditions
13 on this pier at this site to justify the damage
14 that would be caused to the turtle nesting.
15 So that's why we're -- in my mind, we've
16 never flip-flopped. And I know publicly it
17 looked like that.
18 If you have any -- that kind of explain it?
19 Thanks.
20 MS. HOMCY: Can I just add one thing. I'm
21 a little embarrassed --
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: I want to borrow that
23 explanation sometime. That's a good one.
24 MS. ARMSTRONG: On your first week on your
25 next job, it works.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'll use it sometime.
2 Especially to close.
3 MS. HOMCY: I'm sorry. I -- I left out two
4 groups. And just a little slip of my memory.
5 Florida Defenders of the Environment,
6 Bram Canter, is here.
7 And we did have a video made by the
8 Washington office of Center for Marine
9 Conservation. We're not going to show that to
10 you today for the obvious reasons.
11 But we do have a position from both of
12 those organizations as well. And I forgot to
13 add those in, and I'm sorry, I apologize.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
15 Do you want to give us a date certain now?
16 TREASURER NELSON: Then I'll move to the --
17 what's the first meeting in May?
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, we can say the
19 first meeting in May.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll second it.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Without objection,
22 deferred to the first meeting in May.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 8 is Florida Mitigation
24 Trust Corporation request to use sovereign
25 submerged land for mitigation bank.
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1 We would like to start with a presentation
2 by Jeremy Craft, who's our Division Director of
3 the Division of Resource Permitting.
4 MR. CRAFT: Good morning. I'm
5 Jeremy Craft.
6 Mitigation is a concept that was
7 implemented about ten years ago to help projects
8 that did not meet permitting standards obtain
9 permits.
10 It's something that allows a permit
11 applicant to do a positive for the environment,
12 in turn, for getting an otherwise unacceptable
13 project approved.
14 Experience over about ten years with
15 mitigation showed an extremely poor rate of
16 success. Only about 25 percent of the projects
17 that were implemented were successful.
18 In many cases, it was because the projects
19 simply weren't attempted; in other cases, it was
20 because of poor engineering design and poor
21 implementation.
22 The ability of the Department to push
23 compliance in those efforts was limited because
24 we were dealing with very small projects, and
25 very numerous projects.
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1 The concept of mitigation banking came
2 along so that we could get some economies of
3 scale in mitigation, do bigger projects, have
4 more money involved, allow people to contribute
5 into a pool to get the work done. The thought
6 being that we could improve compliance and
7 improve success, and ultimately improve the
8 benefit to the environment.
9 Where we get the greatest benefit for
10 mitigation banking is if we can locate these
11 large scale projects in areas that have regional
12 ecological significance.
13 In south Florida, we've got some great
14 opportunities. We're working, as you all know,
15 with a great deal of public resources, and
16 trying to protect the Everglades, restore
17 Florida Bay, and so forth.
18 Projects like the east coast buffer are
19 major projects for which we do not have enough
20 public resource to carry them out. And those
21 are the kinds of areas where we could direct
22 mitigation banking to take place.
23 That's -- that's the policy issue then that
24 comes before you, is how to utilize the vast
25 holdings of the state of Florida, and how to
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1 manage them.
2 You as Trustees can direct which of those
3 public holdings should be utilized for banking
4 so that we can achieve some environmental
5 benefit.
6 Obviously, if we open all lands up to
7 mitigation banking, we will flood the market.
8 It's not simply an issue of money. We've
9 already cleared about 20,000 acres of land in
10 Lake Okeechobee for -- from melaleuca. If it
11 were an issue solely of money, we could issue
12 ourselves a mitigation bank permit for
13 10,000 credits, and go out there and start
14 selling them.
15 The downside would be, that's 10,000 acres
16 of wetland loss that would occur somewhere in
17 south Florida, and we'd flood the market,
18 deflate the value of mitigation credits, and
19 ultimately deflate the ability of the private
20 sector to play a role in protection of the
21 environment.
22 That policy issue is something that I think
23 needs to be considered very, very carefully by
24 the Board in the use of public lands.
25 This particular project has other problems
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1 associated with it.
2 The mitigation service area they're looking
3 at is expansive, far beyond what the rule
4 provides. And if you have questions dealing
5 with that, Mike Slayton with South Florida Water
6 Management District is here, and can speak to
7 those issues.
8 Technique involved is one that our
9 professional staff in the Bureau of Aquatic
10 Plant Management points to as one that will
11 enhance the ability of future growth of
12 melaleuca.
13 There's also the issue of long-term
14 protection of the site. Restoration is a goal
15 of mitigation banking. This project entails use
16 of lands that are now uplands, and will always
17 remain upland.
18 It also entails a site on which hydrology
19 is in question. There's currently an
20 environmental impact review being conducted by
21 the Corps of Engineers addressing hydrology of
22 this site. If that hydrology is adjusted too
23 drastically, restoration will not occur.
24 Those are the issues before you. I think
25 we've outlined in the agenda item major concerns
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1 for this project. And we would urge you to move
2 for denial of this site.
3 We'd also encourage you to look at the
4 policy that the Department staff put together on
5 the utilization of public lands for mitigation
6 bank. And suggest that we should adopt a policy
7 for those lands so that we can go out and
8 solicit the private sector to come to us with
9 bank proposals on land where there is a
10 designated environmental need.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: It kind of sounds like to
12 me that you've never seen a mitigation project
13 that you really liked.
14 MR. CRAFT: No, sir. There are a great
15 many of them out there.
16 And I'll point to the fact that I for the
17 last 15 years or so have been involved with the
18 phosphate industry. I think they've done some
19 tremendously positive work. There are a great
20 many mitigation projects out there that we can
21 point to with success.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, you know, while
23 we're making these statements, and they -- they
24 all sound very good, melaleuca is eating our
25 lunch. It's -- it's taking over thousands and
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1 thousands of acres.
2 What are you doing to stop the melaleuca?
3 And if you're saying, oh, we can sell these
4 credits ourself, but we haven't, and it looks
5 like to me we haven't done much about melaleuca,
6 now, you know, are we going to do something that
7 makes it feasible for the private sector to get
8 involved in melaleuca or not? That's one of the
9 things I'm interested in.
10 MR. CRAFT: We do have an aggressive
11 program in the Lake Okeechobee watershed. It's
12 an interagency thing with the
13 Corps of Engineers, South Florida Water
14 Management --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: How many acres have you
16 saved?
17 MR. CRAFT: Twenty thousand acres have
18 already been treated.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: At what cost?
20 MR. CRAFT: We are running a cost of about
21 $300 per acre for aerial treatments.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, we've got how many
23 thousand acres infested by melaleuca now, and
24 how fast is it growing right now? I want to get
25 a little cost --
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1 MR. CRAFT: In -- in the Lake Okeechobee
2 watershed --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: No. I mean in Florida.
4 I'm talking about Florida.
5 MR. CRAFT: In Florida, it's half a
6 million.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Half a million. Okay.
8 At $300 an acre, that's a pretty good price.
9 MR. CRAFT: Certainly if we're going to
10 look at Florida, it's a huge price.
11 But, if we look at the areas that have the
12 major ecological significance, those being the
13 water conservation areas, the Everglades proper,
14 and Big Cypress, we narrow the number of acres
15 down considerably.
16 I -- I wouldn't suggest that we go out and
17 begin treating an awful lot of uplands in areas
18 that are designated to be developed. Certainly
19 a seed source control, that could be of value.
20 But it's not the most important value at this
21 point in time.
22 We have through a team effort attacked all
23 of the outlier trees in the Everglades and the
24 water conservation areas.
25 There has been a significant deal of work
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1 on that to ensure against the spread into those
2 most critical resources.
3 Our staff believes in conjunction with the
4 Water Management District that inside of
5 five years, we can complete the treatment in the
6 Lake Okeechobee watershed, and be back only to
7 maintenance to prevent any further infestation.
8 But we have made major strides.
9 Statutes require that we spend 1 million
10 dollars per year of gas tax money that we
11 receive in the aquatic plant program on
12 melaleuca treatment alone.
13 So -- and the Water Management District has
14 received a great many dollars through mitigation
15 efforts for this treatment activity.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question?
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I guess
18 comments, last question.
19 The request on the agenda seems to have
20 prompted a much larger issue. Obviously this is
21 a bigger question than should the firm be
22 allowed to engage in the project and the
23 mitigation banking.
24 I think the Governor is correct. I think
25 we've got some other issues that are even far
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1 greater that we need to look at in the state of
2 Florida.
3 If we've got that many acres out there
4 infected by melaleuca, and the concept of
5 mitigation banking is sitting there left
6 somewhat untended in terms of the direction as
7 to where this state needs to go, I for one would
8 like to start to take a look at the whole issue
9 of mitigation banking and figure out how we're
10 going to move forward with it.
11 I agree, I think there's some wonderful
12 mitigation banking projects that are out there.
13 But that doesn't answer the bigger question,
14 where do we want to go as a state with the whole
15 concept of banking, and how do we want to go
16 forward. And this particular request seems to
17 have tickled that much larger question, probably
18 at an appropriate time.
19 So I -- I'd love to see some kind of a
20 recommendation, or some kind of a planned
21 proposal on the whole issue of mitigation
22 banking, Governor, as it relates to the state.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think it's a
24 question that the Legislature's already spoken
25 to, and I think they're going to speak even more
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1 to it. I don't think we're going to be able to
2 stick our head in the sand and say that there's
3 not going to be use in mitigation banking.
4 If you want to talk about a question of
5 critical state concern, I would be talking about
6 the use of cypress as mulch.
7 Now, if there's anything that's
8 counterproductive to good environment, and
9 Florida's environment, it's allowing the use of
10 cypress for mulch. You're taking these cypress
11 trees that it takes the good Lord hundreds of
12 years to grow a decent, or a big tree, and
13 you're saying, we're just going to use it for
14 mulch.
15 That has been the primary mulch thing
16 that's used in Florida literally. And now
17 they're telling us that the melaleuca can
18 replace that.
19 Seems to be as a product, it can match
20 cypress, from what I know of things. Now the
21 question is: How do you create that kind of
22 industry to -- to start using that five hundred
23 thousandths of a pest, and stop using cypress
24 trees which, you know, goodness knows, I
25 wouldn't like to use them for fence posts even,
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1 you know.
2 But certainly not to allow them to just be
3 used for mulch.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I think you're
5 right on.
6 Now, the question to me is the one of the
7 economics. And that's what I don't have a clear
8 understanding on --
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't either.
10 TREASURER NELSON: -- with regard to what
11 is a fair trade with regard --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't either.
13 TREASURER NELSON: -- to the credits.
14 And -- and, therefore, the trading of this.
15 Clearly, I think it's desirable public
16 policy to do what you just said. And we ought
17 to encourage an industry.
18 But how do we define what is in the
19 economic interest by valuing those credits and
20 allowing those credits, and where those credits
21 are located? I don't have the answer to that
22 today.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't either. And
24 I think that might be a good idea, to either
25 have a workshop, or to ask the Department to go
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1 back and look at that, and give us some ideas
2 about that.
3 Because I -- I can't tell the answer to
4 that. Half credit, full credit, tenth credit,
5 what -- what it should be. But I think that's
6 something that certainly ought to be looked at.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, and there's
8 also the question raised by the Department on
9 what alternative forms of -- of removal are --
10 are good.
11 It's one thing to do it chemically, it's
12 another thing to do it mechanically. But then
13 the issue of does the mechanical process create
14 more harm than it does good.
15 Like you, I need some of those questions
16 answered before I can make a decision, on not
17 just this, but again the whole issue of banking
18 and the economy.
19 MR. CRAFT: We also, if I may, Governor,
20 have a very nice project just being piloted with
21 the Department of Corrections where they're
22 using prison labor to kill the trees. The
23 Department is paying for the herbicide, the
24 Water Management District is supplying a
25 chipper, and then the Department of Corrections
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1 is selling the chipped wood on the market for
2 mulch to someone who mulches it, and driving a
3 little revenue for their use. There --
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's a chemical
5 removal?
6 MR. CRAFT: Yes, sir.
7 It's a cutting down and chipping and then,
8 of course, you have to paint the stumps with
9 herbicide. Very similar process to what's being
10 proposed here.
11 But they're -- there are a lot of tweaks we
12 can make to whatever we do --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think --
14 MR. CRAFT: -- to benefit --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that makes sense. I'd
16 like to see prisoners doing that. But I believe
17 we've got enough melaleuca to go around.
18 MR. CRAFT: Enough prisoners, too, from the
19 sound of it.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah, we've
21 got enough prisoners. You're right.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, we will have
23 done a good day's work if we could ever start
24 the process where we start a new industry, a
25 melaleuca mulch industry, which would help us
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1 clean up this area.
2 So I would encourage you to proceed with a
3 workshop so we can try to get an economic
4 understanding of this.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes. Yes, ma'am.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- just to have a
8 motion on the table, I'd like to move a
9 conceptual approval of this directing staff, and
10 possibly your staff. Mr. Fuchs, in particular,
11 did a great job with high power, and negotiating
12 that. Actually negotiating with the applicant
13 on the -- the mulch issue, as well as the
14 mitigation issues.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I second the
16 motion.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'd like to put
18 Mr. Fuchs to work on this mulch issue, too,
19 Governor.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Well, may I --
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Nobody knows mulch
22 like Mr. Fuchs.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: No good deed goes
24 unpunished.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Be good to have him
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1 busy on mulch for a little while.
2 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask,
3 Madam Secretary, what does "conceptual approval"
4 mean?
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, pending the
6 negotiation that comes back from staff.
7 I think what we're hearing is that this is
8 a good idea. There's no question the
9 Legislature has already said that this is
10 something that we need to do, mitigation
11 banking.
12 And so it would seem to me that we need to
13 move forward. I'm not sure this group
14 workshopping it is going to move it that much
15 further down the pipeline, whereas if we say to
16 staff, we would like you to negotiate with this
17 particular company, come back to us, and tell us
18 what we can make. And what they can provide the
19 state of Florida.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I like the
21 concept, as I've stated. But I'm not prepared
22 to put my stamp of approval on saying that we
23 ought to value this as X, and there ought to be
24 this exchange of --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that would --
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1 TREASURER NELSON: -- 2 acres per credit,
2 and it ought to be in that geographical area
3 that's defined on the map. I'm not ready to
4 approve that concept.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, you would
6 probably vote no then.
7 TREASURER NELSON: All right. That's what
8 I wanted to find out, if that's your intention.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, anything that's
10 negotiated will come back.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Right.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I have
13 a question also then, Madam Secretary.
14 So you are really site specific on this,
15 you're conceptu-- we're conceptually approving
16 this site.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: For Lake Okeechobee.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I thought --
19 I'm not sure that that's -- that's good public
20 policy.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Does --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- the whole
23 package at once, or accept the whole package.
24 Why --
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: You're talking for the
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1 whole state of Florida?
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, this particular
4 proposal, as I understood it, was for
5 Lake Okeechobee site.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: But that particular --
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Now, maybe I'm wrong.
8 If somebody can tell me that this proposal was
9 for something other than --
10 MR. GREEN: You're correct,
11 Madam Secretary --
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So --
13 MR. GREEN: -- you are correct. It was for
14 Okeechobee.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So, yes. This would be
16 the site.
17 My suggestion would be that Mr. Fuchs, and
18 anybody else that he wanted to have, negotiate
19 with this particular company, and come back to
20 the Cabinet, and we either say yea or nay.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And the use
22 of sovereignty submerged lands for -- for
23 proposed mitigation bank, that's what we're
24 talking about.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's correct.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: And your motion would
2 assume that the mitigation credits be granted
3 all over the southern part of Florida, not just
4 in the area that is recommended by the South
5 Florida Water Management District; is that
6 correct?
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I would propose that
8 Mr. Fuchs and staff would come back with their
9 recommendation.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: They'd be free to go
11 either way.
12 TREASURER NELSON: With no preconceived
13 idea on where the mitigation credits would --
14 would be, nor how much they would be valued.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, that's what they
16 would come back with.
17 No, I think we need --
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: They would negotiate.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- to give it to
20 them --
21 MR. GREEN: Governor --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- as we did in the
23 high power instance.
24 MR. GREEN: -- we're stepping outside of
25 what really the question is today, where the
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1 mitigation credits apply, when you go and want
2 to develop and use a mitigation credit, that's
3 an issue that the Water Management District is
4 dealing with in their regulatory permit.
5 What -- the issue before you today is
6 whether or not we use sovereign submerged lands
7 as a mitigation bank. How much should we be
8 paid for that as the Trustees of those state
9 lands.
10 Those -- those issues, not -- not the
11 breadth of where they can apply these mitigation
12 credits to.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Is the issue before us
14 whether or not the Cabinet will approve the
15 public policy of using mitigation bank credits
16 for sovereign lands of the state? Is that the
17 issue?
18 MR. GREEN: That is part of the issue,
19 yes, sir.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I need to know a
21 little bit more before I move on that one.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
23 that was my question, too. Because I've been
24 fighting sovereign state land battles now for
25 the last decade. And I -- I'd rather not
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1 conceptually approve anything till after we get
2 more facts.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, it seems to me that
4 we're not giving up any sovereign state lands by
5 anything we do conceptually if it comes back to
6 us for a vote.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Right.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: The other thing, it seems
9 to me, that what we're allowing, if we even go
10 forward with it, is somebody to cut a melaleuca
11 on the sovereign state land.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's right.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's still our sovereign
14 state land, it's just our sovereign state land
15 less a melaleuca tree.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's right.
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: And I'd kind of like to
18 have some of that.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I would, too.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. I was
21 going to say, I -- the conceptual approval
22 concept I think gives us the ability, rather
23 than to sit and workshop, it gives us the
24 ability to start without a blank sheet of
25 paper.
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1 I think the negotiation process and the
2 consideration process, what we can actually do
3 is use this as an opportunity to take up all the
4 issues that we're all discussing, and use it as
5 a discussion springboard.
6 I don't think we're tied into anything with
7 a conceptual approval, other than finally
8 getting some of this discussion on the table and
9 finding a place to start. If we come back and
10 don't like any of it, part of it, or all of it,
11 we can make those decisions at that particular
12 point in time.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Why don't we see if we --
14 where the votes lie on this thing. I think --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a
16 question. Does this --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
19 conceptual approval is four votes, but to
20 actually use state sovereign land is five votes;
21 is that correct?
22 MR. GREEN: My understanding --
23 understanding is if you want to approve it, it's
24 a five-vote.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But even on
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1 conceptual, it might be a -- either a five-vote
2 or a four-vote.
3 MR. GREEN: Ken.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: In other
5 words, you're conceptually approving the use of
6 state sovereignty land. And I think that vote
7 would take a five vote and not a four vote.
8 TREASURER NELSON: While the counsel is --
9 MR. PLANTE: I can go along with that.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Maybe
11 four-and-a-half it should take.
12 MR. PLANTE: Ken Plante, for the record,
13 General Counsel of DEP.
14 In the past, we've -- we've gone both
15 ways. Four votes is just for a conceptual, but
16 there's no guarantee. And on the record it has
17 been stated that this is no permit to do
18 anything. That would be four votes.
19 If it's the intention that it be more
20 than -- it be conceptual approval that we really
21 intend to go forth with this, then you would
22 need the five votes.
23 But if there is no guarantee --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Does
25 conceptual approval mean that we approve the
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1 concept?
2 MR. PLANTE: It means that -- if I
3 understood --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Of using
5 state sovereignty lands.
6 MR. PLANTE: If that's the way you
7 conceptually --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's the
9 way --
10 MR. PLANTE: -- you need five votes. If it
11 is, as I understood Secretary Mortham, just go
12 out and come back with another plan, you'd only
13 need four votes.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. She
15 says hers includes the use --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, why don't you let
17 her state her motion.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But I'm
19 saying --
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: She may want to state a
21 four-vote motion.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. I'd
23 let --
24 TREASURER NELSON: Well, you see, Governor,
25 this is why we're having so much problem. I
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1 support the concept. But nobody understands
2 what the specific concept is. It's all nice and
3 fuzzy here. And I'm not going to vote for
4 something that's fuzzy.
5 So --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, that's why it has
7 to come back. It seems to me that nobody gives
8 up too much of anything as long as we all
9 clearly know that it is the type of a conceptual
10 motion that says folks are going to go out and
11 negotiate, they're going to bring back something
12 to us.
13 And other than saying that we think this is
14 an idea that should be explored, I don't think
15 we've taken another step.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Well now, if the motion
17 is stated like that, that's different than what
18 I heard --
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That it is --
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's my
21 interpretation -- maybe she can restate it --
22 that we are voting on a concept here. But that
23 concept is dependent on another vote.
24 And I think with that understanding, if
25 that's correct --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I think it needs to
2 be important, Counsel. You tell me if I'm
3 wrong. We're talking about entering into a
4 conceptual discussion with a person who wants
5 business.
6 And I think what needs to be very
7 importantly stated here for the record today is
8 that there should be no belief on the part of
9 that corporate entity that anything in this
10 discussion is ultimately guaranteed, that this
11 is simply conceptual approval to discuss,
12 negotiate, and bring back something from which
13 we can work, whether we ever decide to do
14 anything, or whether we don't.
15 Is that a part of your concern?
16 MR. PLANTE: Yes. That a -- I agree with
17 General Butterworth. If the vote is to give any
18 indication that there's any sov-- use of
19 sovereignty submerged lands, it requires five
20 votes.
21 If this is, as you just said, to go -- a
22 conceptual approval to discuss this, and come
23 back, then it's going to require five notes --
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Then there now is
25 incredible pressure on the part of the Secretary
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1 of State to bring forth a motion that will do
2 this.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, you know, I think
4 that we're -- to be very honest, I don't have a
5 problem with going for the five votes and just
6 saying, if, in fact, there are not five people
7 that believe that we need to try to get this
8 melaleuca under control, I don't think there's
9 anybody up here that wants to do anything to
10 environmentally hurt the -- the state of Florida
11 or its citizens.
12 What we're looking for is someone from
13 staff to negotiate with this company, and at the
14 same time provide safeguards. And, you know,
15 the motion is pretty clear.
16 But if there are not five votes up here to
17 do that, then, frankly, I don't know if we
18 really should go forward with it.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Would you state your
20 motion, Madam Secretary?
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Conceptual approval
22 directing staff to enter into negotiations with
23 the applicant.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's a five
25 vote.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. That's five vote.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Clearly.
3 TREASURER NELSON: And that is not the
4 intent expressed by the Governor.
5 So --
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well --
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- I'm going to vote no.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- I would think that
9 it was what the Governor stated. So -- I mean,
10 I think he can probably say whether or not --
11 I mean, this is going to come back to this same
12 body. And we're going to either say yes or no
13 at that time.
14 MR. GREEN: Governor, we still have
15 additional speakers also.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: We have what?
17 MR. GREEN: Additional speakers.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Spoken --
19 are they speaking on a five-vote or a
20 four-vote --
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, all the additional
22 speakers are going to have an opportunity to
23 speak to this one again, if it passes -- if it
24 doesn't --
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'm confused
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1 as to -- I guess the way I understand it,
2 Governor, I could be wrong --
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I --
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- I think the way she --
6 I think the way she has stated the motion now,
7 I think it is five votes.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: To use state
9 sovereignty land.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think -- but I -- I
11 still think, even with that, it does not bother
12 me that much, because it is going to come back.
13 I am not worried that I can still not say no.
14 And I have an opportunity to do that.
15 So I would -- I will support the motion.
16 But I think the way it's stated, it's a
17 five-vote motion.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, if I
19 could, I -- at the appropriate time, I can do it
20 this meeting or the next meeting.
21 But as it relates to the revenue that might
22 be generated by the project, I would like for us
23 to consider language that would direct that the
24 first two-and-a-half million dollars from the
25 project be assigned back to the CARL trust fund
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1 for interim management projects.
2 The Legislature diverted two-and-a-half
3 million dollars out of the CARL fund for
4 nuisance and aquatic plant eradication, which is
5 kind of what we're getting at here.
6 And so if we can generate these dollars,
7 that it would actually go back into the CARL
8 Trust Fund for the purchase -- purposes of
9 interim management.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think that the proper
11 time would be when it comes --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Comes back.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- if it comes back, and
14 when it comes back.
15 Why don't we just see where the votes are,
16 instead of literally --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Probably
18 should.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- wasting our time.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let the
21 speakers go.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Pardon?
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let the
24 speakers go --
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay.
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1 MR. WILLSON: Governor, members of the
2 Cabinet, thank you for letting me speak before
3 the horses are out of the barn.
4 I'm George Willson with the
5 Nature Conservancy. And we speak in support of
6 the Department's denial request.
7 And for the following reasons: I think
8 it -- it gets back to a basic trust issue and
9 your responsibility on more than just sovereign
10 lands, goes back to CARL, goes back to Save our
11 Rivers and other programs, and I'll explain
12 why.
13 When Carol Brauner approached the
14 conservation community when she took over DER,
15 she came to us and said that mitigation is not
16 working. On-site mitigation is insufficient, it
17 doesn't get us any real environmental benefit.
18 And the off-site mitigation that was
19 occurring to date had not been monitored, and it
20 was still being used on less than significant
21 watersheds.
22 She came back to the conservation
23 community, she came back to Fish and Wildlife,
24 the Corps of Engineers, all five of the water
25 management districts, county government, and
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1 everyone and said, if we're going to do
2 mitigation, let's have mitigation occur in areas
3 that are really significant that helped get us
4 the core areas that we're trying to protect with
5 CARL and Save Our Rivers, and all of the county
6 programs, and all of the things we're doing.
7 Let's have mitigation occur in watersheds where
8 it's really going to do us some good.
9 What happens when you have a project like
10 this is you're removing the resource management
11 agencies from the District, the Corps, or anyone
12 else, and you're allowing credits to be
13 created.
14 And credits are only created when something
15 significant is destroyed. Basically you write
16 a -- you get a credit, and you get the -- pass
17 mitigation when one natural area is destroyed,
18 and you restore something.
19 What we were hoping to do with off-site
20 mitigation, and there are a lot of good examples
21 of -- Governor, you dedicated the Disney
22 Wilderness Preserve, so you've seen a site where
23 there was a win-win for the environment, a
24 win-win for the economy of central Florida.
25 We're not saying mitigation isn't
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1 significant, it isn't good. But let us have
2 mitigation occur in those areas that get us the
3 most benefit for the environment.
4 And if you look at this region, where do we
5 need mitigation, where are we -- where are we
6 finding new economic -- environmental
7 protection. You look at the EAA and a lot of
8 areas that are certainly going to be
9 acquisitioned, enhancement, restoration.
10 You can look at the buffer strips in
11 Broward; Dade; Palm Beach, Palmar area of
12 Palm Beach; and in Martin County, you can look
13 at the Frog Pond, you can look at an enormous
14 amount of areas with hundreds and hundreds of
15 millions of dollars of need.
16 Not only for acquisition, but for
17 restoration, not only for melaleuca but for
18 Casuarina, for all the exotics, for -- and other
19 terrestrial exotics.
20 These are areas that you need to acquire,
21 we need to be able to reflood, we need to be
22 able to store water.
23 All of the benefits that -- many of the
24 benefits that we already have on these sovereign
25 submerged lands. We're talking about one
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1 benefit here.
2 And you're talking about a lot of credits
3 to be created in an area where there's really
4 there no -- there's -- it's outside of an area
5 where damage is being done. You're outside
6 of -- you're in a service area that -- where the
7 harm is being done somewhere else.
8 What we would propose is -- recommend is
9 that the Department and the Water Management
10 Districts and the federal agencies that control
11 mitigation still be allowed to select the
12 mitigation areas that would help us get the most
13 benefit.
14 That helps us answer the question that many
15 of you have asked about does the CARL program
16 have a plan. Does the Save Our Rivers program
17 have a plan.
18 And I think I can argue, and we could
19 demonstrate by using mitigation effectively that
20 it helps -- it's another arrow in the quiver for
21 getting the core areas protected.
22 But if you allow mitigation credits to be
23 taken from lands where -- that are not in the
24 core area, or do not offer us a really
25 regionally significant environmental benefit,
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1 then you're not helping. It's not helping the
2 overall program.
3 So basically, we speak in favor of the item
4 to deny this. And if there is -- if you need a
5 workshop on off-site mitigation, we would be
6 very happy to participate, as do a lot of other
7 people.
8 Thank you.
9 Any questions?
10 MS. ARMSTRONG: Governor, members of the
11 Cabinet, I'll be quick. Eva Armstrong
12 representing Florida Audubon.
13 The public policy issue, we think, is a
14 very important one for you to discuss and
15 debate.
16 And what I question is whether or not it's
17 really wise to use these state lands, which
18 undeniably, we need to remove the melaleuca. No
19 doubt about it.
20 But are we providing a means for people to
21 develop in areas where we would normally require
22 a mitigation in that area as a tradeoff for
23 here. That's what I think is the major -- major
24 policy you're looking at --
25 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
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1 MS. ARMSTRONG: -- and I do happen to think
2 you need more information -- I need more
3 information about it.
4 So I would encourage you to bring this
5 conceptual agreement back, that's great. We
6 prefer that you not make a firm policy statement
7 to date that you want to go forward
8 across-the-board.
9 Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
11 MR. FULLER: Manley Fuller,
12 Florida Wildlife Federation.
13 We share the concerns expressed by
14 Mr. Willson and Ms. Armstrong. My understanding
15 is is this particular site is under -- is under
16 an active melaleuca control program, and there
17 may be other sites that are -- that are more
18 appropriate for this type of activity.
19 Regarding the concern that you expressed
20 earlier, Governor, about this cypress mulch,
21 every time I have a Board of Directors meeting,
22 all the Polk County and central Florida
23 directors are always real upset that that's
24 going on. And in terms of cypress mulching, I
25 don't know how much of it occurs on state
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1 lands.
2 But if you all wanted to take that up as a
3 separate action to discourage or eliminate that
4 on state lands and encourage the Water
5 Management Districts not to allow it, that's
6 something we'd certainly like to see.
7 Thank you.
8 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
9 MR. RILLSTONE: Good morning. My name is
10 Douglas Rillstone. I'm an attorney with the law
11 firm of Greenberg, Traurig, and I represent the
12 applicant in this matter, Forestry -- Florida
13 Mitigation Trust Corporation.
14 Excuse me.
15 You know, the Governor's right when -- in
16 terms of encouraging an industry to be started.
17 There is an industry that's already started, and
18 it was started by our client about 14 years
19 ago.
20 Forester resources was going to be the
21 operational arm of this process. Incorporated
22 about 14 years ago with one purpose, and that
23 was to find something to do with melaleuca as an
24 alternative to cypress.
25 He has grown that business into a very
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1 successful business. He has about 3,000
2 distributors of melaleuca mulch; and quite
3 frankly, one of the problems, he can't get
4 enough of it.
5 And the -- the thought of entering into a
6 public-private partnership with the
7 State of Florida to help restore a resource was
8 very intriguing to him. And we've been moving
9 forward since December of last year, trying to
10 get authorization from the Trustees to try to
11 embark in that endeavor.
12 A win-win situation for the state, a
13 win-win situation for our client. The
14 restoration of a resource -- a needed
15 restoration of a resource, at no cost to the
16 state; a great value and benefit to the state,
17 not only from an economic perspective, which we
18 can certainly discuss that, but also from an
19 alternative to cypress mulch, as well as
20 restoring a much needed area.
21 I'd like to address some of the technical
22 issues, and I'll do that very briefly. Where
23 we're at procedurally is staff has recommended
24 denial.
25 We are in the final throws of a
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1 management -- Water Management District
2 permitting with the South Florida Water
3 Management District on the mitigation bank.
4 In the mitigation banking permitting
5 process, all the technical issues the Department
6 has addressed, including the method of removal,
7 are being addressed.
8 The final area that we need to negotiate
9 with the District is the mitigation service
10 area. And there's a -- there's a meeting this
11 afternoon at the Water Management District to
12 review that very same -- that very issue.
13 So on the technical side of this project,
14 the Legislature has directed the Water
15 Management District to be the regulatory arm of
16 it. We've been working with them for the last
17 year-and-a-half, spent a great deal of money,
18 and are in the final throws of that.
19 We've worked out mitigation credits. The
20 final thing that we need to work out is
21 mitigation service area, and we believe we can
22 come to some mutual satisfaction on that.
23 Because we're in the procedural process --
24 the procedural stance of a denial, we're
25 requesting conceptual approval. We haven't been
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1 able to sit down with either your staff or the
2 staff of DEP, to negotiate some of the finer
3 points of the agreement.
4 What is the State entitled to in terms of
5 revenue sharing agreement. We've made several
6 offers to the State, we've yet been able to
7 negotiate that.
8 What types of restrictions would you put on
9 these types of credits and the sale of these
10 credits. We've made some proposals, we've not
11 as yet had the opportunity to sit down with
12 staff, or your staff, to negotiate those points.
13 What we need to do in terms of trying to
14 get forward -- to move forward in this project,
15 is the conceptual approval of the project
16 subject to final negotiation of this agreement,
17 and bringing it back to the Trustees for
18 approval.
19 Using private resources to restore public
20 land is not a new issue. In June of last year,
21 the Trustees' approval of Pine Island using
22 private resources to restore a much needed
23 resource, using -- through the vehicle for
24 mitigation bank.
25 There are other governmental bodies that
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1 are doing this. The federal government is doing
2 it in the Everglades in the
3 Hole-in-the-Doughnut, the largest mitigation
4 bank in the State of Florida. Federally owned
5 lands, mitigation permit issued by the State.
6 Water Management Districts are using it to
7 restore their land, either in terms of
8 establishing mitigation banks, or accepting
9 funds from private entities as mitigation for
10 wetland impacts to restore their land.
11 Local governments are doing it the same
12 thing.
13 We're negotiating with Lee County at this
14 point to restore some of their lands, using a
15 vehicle for mitigation banking.
16 Dade County has done it, Palm Beach County
17 is proposing to do it. There's an article today
18 in the Volusia Times where Volusia County is
19 moving forward and doing it. Orange County has
20 a mitigation bank already set up and running.
21 The State, indeed, is involved in melaleuca
22 eradication program out of Lake Okeechobee.
23 Presently they're doing 200 acres a year.
24 (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
25 MR. RILLSTONE: In our project area, we can
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1 do it half as quick, and at no cost to the
2 state.
3 The present methodology is using aerial
4 application of an nonselective herbicide.
5 Everything it touches it kills.
6 We have a very select mechanical removal
7 process. The Water Management District wants to
8 use it as a resource management tool. And,
9 quite frankly, we've agreed to work with them up
10 to the tune of about 400 acres a year.
11 And they would prefer to use our
12 methodology if they had the money, et cetera.
13 Some of the benefits to the state, other
14 than the economic, is we would be creating 50
15 local jobs in this area -- much needed area.
16 We would recycle at least 1.1 billion tons
17 of melaleuca mulch as an alternative to
18 cypress.
19 We would relocate limited public
20 resources. The money that you would have spent
21 to restore this area you could use in some other
22 area of the state.
23 And we can provide additional money to
24 manage the lands once we've got the leftover.
25 What we need is an affirmative direction
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1 from the Trustees for two reasons: So we can
2 negotiate with your staff and bring this back at
3 a later date to come to some sort of agreement
4 so we can get a vote on this.
5 And second, we need an affirmative
6 demonstration from the Trustees so we can move
7 forward with the Water Management District
8 permitting.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Secretary.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: General Butterworth.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: May I ask a
12 question?
13 MR. RILLSTONE: Yes, sir.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Do you agree
15 with the -- with the Governor and the Cabinet in
16 our attempt to use -- use this particular
17 melaleuca for mulch, and thereby forego using
18 cypress for mulch?
19 MR. RILLSTONE: Our long-term -- our
20 client's long-term marketing plan is to make a
21 very large impact on the mulch -- on the cypress
22 mulch business.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Therefore,
24 your client would be opposed to anybody using
25 cypress for mulch, is that correct, sir?
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1 MR. RILLSTONE: I think that's probably a
2 fair statement.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And is your
4 client presently in the cypress mulch business?
5 MR. RILLSTONE: Out client uses cypress
6 mulch to supplement his melaleuca mulch sales.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Could you
8 maybe give me the ratio how much cypress and how
9 much melaleuca.
10 MR. CAUTHEN: About 50/50.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Because --
12 so, therefore, you do not plan on stopping the
13 use of cypress for mulch, that's what I
14 understand.
15 MR. RILLSTONE: Our client is a
16 businessman, Attorney General Butterworth, and
17 there's an existing market out there, he's
18 trying to service that market.
19 His goal is to use melaleuca. But he's a
20 businessman. If he needs to supplement his
21 melaleuca mulch sales with cypress, he needs to
22 do that.
23 His plans are to get the melaleuca mulch,
24 because that's the reason that the business was
25 formed for.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
2 Madam Secretary, one more question.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Uh-hum.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sitting as
5 the Board of Trustees for state land --
6 (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- we
8 obviously hold that land in trust for the people
9 of the state of Florida.
10 Therefore, what I understand you saying,
11 that as a businessman, if we're going to allow
12 him to use state sovereignty lands for him to
13 make a profit, he will then forego the use of
14 cypress in the state of Florida for mulch; is
15 that correct?
16 MR. RILLSTONE: I'm not sure that I can
17 answer that question for him.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
19 there's a little problem here. It seems this
20 person here is the guy who's -- who's chopping
21 up the cypress trees for mulch. And it's at
22 50/50 right now between melaleuca and cypress.
23 What he would like to do would be to,
24 you know, get more melaleuca, and then maybe
25 forego some cypress. But he's not really saying
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1 that it's going to be an acre for acre yet, or
2 whatever it might be.
3 So I have a little concern here about
4 the -- the conceptual use of state sovereignty
5 land when he doesn't want to give us a
6 conceptual promise that he's not going to use
7 cypress for mulch.
8 Just a little technicality, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Are you saying that we
10 ought to give him enough melaleuca that he
11 doesn't have to use cypress?
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That is
13 absolutely correct, Governor. No two ways about
14 it. But he doesn't want to say he's going to
15 stop using cypress when we give him enough
16 melaleuca.
17 MR. RILLSTONE: I think I can state for my
18 client is if you give us enough melaleuca mulch,
19 we'll be able to sell it. And if we can process
20 all the melaleuca mulch, I don't know that we're
21 going to have a need to go out there and acquire
22 any cypress.
23 The simple fact of the matter is, if we
24 can -- if we can meet our business objectives
25 with melaleuca mulch, we have no need to go
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1 after cypress.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sounds like to me, that's
3 another thing that Mr. Fuchs ought to be looking
4 at.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We're
6 getting closer. We're getting closer.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any other question?
8 Thank you.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I have a
10 substitute motion.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Make your motion.
12 TREASURER NELSON: All right. I move that
13 we approve the melaleuca mulch process in
14 concept, but specifically do not approve in
15 concept the geographical area to which the
16 mitigation credits would apply; as well as,
17 specifically do not speak to a -- a value placed
18 upon those mitigation credits.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
21 seconded.
22 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Nos appear to have it.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I guess we have a
7 motion.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Same motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
11 moved and seconded on the -- on the conceptual
12 approval --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'd like to
14 amend that motion, if I can, Governor.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's open for amendment.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.
17 I'd like to amend the motion that we also
18 in this conceptual approval, and in the Fuchs
19 study, look at ways that we can prevent the
20 harvesting of cypress on state sovereignty land.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Give Mr. Fuchs something
22 else to do.
23 Is there a second to the amendment?
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir, I'll second
25 that.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
2 seconded.
3 All right. The motion as amended is before
4 us now.
5 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Aye.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Aye.
11 Opposed, no.
12 TREASURER NELSON: No.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: The nos -- the ayes
15 appear to have it.
16 The ayes have it. Five to two.
17 Thank you.
18 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 9,
19 consideration of Administration Commission
20 request authorizing the Department to continue
21 purchase in several of the Keys projects in
22 Monroe County.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, approved.
2 MR. GREEN: Thank you. That's all.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's it.
4 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
5 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
6 *
7 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
8 11:38 a.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 107 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 22ND day of MARCH, 1996.
17
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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