Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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COMMISSION ON MINORITY ECONOMIC
6 AND BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
7 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
8 INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
9 AND MOTOR VEHICLES
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
10 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
11 STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
12 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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14 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
15 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
16 December 12, 1995, commencing at approximately
9:46 a.m.
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18 Reported by:
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
20 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
21 the State of Florida at Large
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
25 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
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BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
December 12, 1995
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 COMMISSION ON MINORITY
ECONOMIC AND BUSINESS
4 DEVELOPMENT:
(Presented by Tereasa P. Stewart,
5 Interim Executive Administrator)
6 1 Approved 7
2 Approved 7
7 3 Approved 8
8 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Ash Williams, Jr.,
9 Executive Director)
10 1 Approved 9
2 Approved 9
11 3 Approved 9
4 Approved 10
12 5 Approved 10
6 Approved 10
13 7 Approved 10
8 Approved 11
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
15 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
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1 Approved 12
17 2 Approved 12
3 Approved 13
18 4 Approved 13
5 Approved 13
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS:
20 (Presented by Earl G. Peck,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 14
22 2 Withdrawn 14
3 Remarks 14
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
December 12, 1995
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
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ITEM ACTION PAGE
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INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION:
4 (Presented by John Douglas,
Interim Executive Director)
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1 Approved 20
6 2 Approved 20
3 Deferred 21
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY
8 AND MOTOR VEHICLES:
(Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III,
9 Executive Director)
10 1 Approved 22
11 DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
12 Executive Director)
13 1 Approved 23
2 Approved 23
14 3 Approved 23
4 Presentation 23
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
16 (Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
Executive Director)
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1 Approved 31
18 2-5 Approved 31
6 Approved 32
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
December 12, 1995
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
4 (Presented by Wayne Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner, Planning and Budgeting)
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1 Approved 34
6 2 Approved 34
3 Approved 34
7 4 Approved 34
5 Approved 35
8 6 Approved 35
7 Approved 35
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STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION:
10 (Presented by Wayne Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner, Planning and Budgeting)
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1 Approved 37
12 2 Approved 37
3 Approved 38
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
14 (Presented by Gale Sittig,
Deputy Director)
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1 Approved 39
16 2 Approved 39
3 Approved 39
17 4 Approved 40
5 Approved 40
18 6 Approved 40
7 Approved 41
19 8 Approved 129
9 Approved 42
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December 12, 1995
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 131
7 2 Approved 131
3 Approved 131
8 4 Approved 131
5 Approved 131
9 6 Approved 154
7 Approved 229
10 8 Approved 230
9 Approved 230
11 10 Approved 230
Substitute 11 Approved 231
12 Substitute 12 Approved 231
13 Approved 231
13 14 Approved 232
Substitute 15 Approved 232
14 16 Approved 236
15 Item 11 from
November 29, 1995, Agenda
16 Reconsidered 156
17 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 238
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
COMMISSION ON MINORITY ECONOMIC/BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
December 12, 1995
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
10:10 2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:10 a.m.)
10:10 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: And we'll begin our
10:10 4 Agenda Order with the Commission on Minority
10:10 5 Economic and Business Development.
10:10 6 MS. STEWART: Good morning.
10:10 7 We have three agenda items today.
10:10 8 The first item is the approval of our -- of
10:10 9 the minutes of the meetings held October 24th,
10:10 10 1995; and November 7th, 1995.
10:10 11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:10 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:10 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
10:10 14 seconded that the minutes be approved.
10:10 15 And without objection, they are approved.
10:10 16 MS. STEWART: Item 2 is a -- is for final
10:11 17 agency action on an administrative hearing in
10:11 18 the case of Tregoning Industries of the granting
10:11 19 of application for certification as a Minority
10:11 20 Business Enterprise.
10:11 21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:11 22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:11 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
10:11 24 seconded.
10:11 25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
COMMISSION ON MINORITY ECONOMIC/BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:11 1 MS. STEWART: Agenda item 3 is deferred
10:11 2 from our meeting on 11-29-95. Agenda item 3 is
10:11 3 for the final agency action on an administrative
10:11 4 hearing in the case of Test Lab, Inc., of the
10:11 5 granting of application for certification as a
10:11 6 Minority Business Enterprise.
10:11 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10:11 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:11 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:11 11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 (The Commission on Minority Economic and
13 Business Development Agenda was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
December 12, 1995
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10:11 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of
2 Administration.
10:11 3 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 1 is the minutes from
10:11 4 the November 29 meeting.
10:11 5 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
10:11 6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10:11 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
10:11 8 seconded.
10:11 9 Without objection, minutes are approved.
10:11 10 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 2 is a fiscal
10:12 11 sufficiency for State of Florida PECO bonds.
10:12 12 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
10:12 13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
10:12 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:12 15 Without objection, they're approved.
10:12 16 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 3 is the fiscal
10:12 17 sufficiency for PECO Bonds, 1996 Series A.
10:12 18 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
10:12 19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
10:12 20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:12 21 Without objection, it's approved.
10:12 22 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 4 is an interest rate
10:12 23 exception for the Bayside Improvement Community
10:12 24 Development District.
10:12 25 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
December 12, 1995
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10:12 1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10:12 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:12 3 Without objection then, item 4 is approved.
10:12 4 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 5 is an interest rate
10:12 5 exception for the Eastlake Oaks Community
10:12 6 Development District.
10:12 7 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
10:12 8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10:12 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:12 10 Without objection, it's approved.
10:12 11 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 6 is an interest rate
10:12 12 exception for the Housing Authority for the City
10:12 13 of Tampa.
10:12 14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
10:12 15 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
10:12 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Motion and seconded.
10:12 17 Without objection, it's approved.
10:12 18 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 7, reports by the
10:12 19 Executive Director, fund balance and performance
10:12 20 for the month of October '95, and bank
10:12 21 designations for the month of November.
10:12 22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
10:12 23 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
10:12 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:13 25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
December 12, 1995
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10:13 1 MR. WILLIAMS: Item 8 is an interest rate
10:13 2 exception for the Orange County Housing Finance
10:13 3 Authority.
10:13 4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
10:13 5 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
10:13 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:13 7 Without objection, that's approved.
10:13 8 MR. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
9 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
10 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
December 12, 1995
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10:13 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Division of Bond Finance.
10:13 2 Good morning.
10:13 3 MR. WATKINS: Good morning.
10:13 4 Item number 1 is approval of the minutes of
10:13 5 the November 29 meeting.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
10:13 8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
10:13 10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution
10:13 12 to authorize the issuance and competitive sale
10:13 13 of PECO refunding issue to effectuate a debt
10:13 14 service savings.
10:13 15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:13 16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:13 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:13 18 Without objection, it's approved.
10:13 19 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a resolution
10:13 20 authorizing the competitive sale of not to
10:13 21 exceed 242.7 million dollars in capital outlay
10:13 22 bonds for educational facilities.
10:13 23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move.
10:13 24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:13 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
December 12, 1995
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10:13 1 Without objection, it's approved.
10:13 2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a resolution
10:13 3 endorsing the recommendation of the selection
10:14 4 committee and selection of a top ranked law firm
10:14 5 for the development and implementation of a
10:14 6 comprehensive equipment financing program on
10:14 7 behalf of the Comptroller.
10:14 8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
10:14 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:14 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:14 11 Without objection, it's approved.
10:14 12 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is the report
10:14 13 of award of three multifamily revenue bond
10:14 14 issues on behalf of the Florida Housing Finance
10:14 15 Agency.
10:14 16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move acceptance of the
10:14 17 report.
10:14 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:14 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:14 20 Without objection, the report is accepted.
10:14 21 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
22 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
23 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:14 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of
10:14 2 Veterans' Affairs.
10:14 3 GENERAL PECK: Good morning.
10:14 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
10:14 5 GENERAL PECK: Item 1, quarterly report;
10:14 6 recommend acceptance.
10:14 7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
10:14 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
10:14 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:14 10 Without objection, it's approved.
10:14 11 GENERAL PECK: We've been asked to withdraw
10:14 12 Item 2 pending potential revision.
10:14 13 And item 3, I'd ask for a few minutes to --
10:14 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's have a motion on
10:14 15 the withdrawal --
10:14 16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So move.
10:15 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:15 18 Without objection, the item is approved.
10:15 19 GENERAL PECK: Okay. Governor, members of
10:15 20 the Cabinet, I'd asked for a few minutes this
10:15 21 morning, because as you know, I'm going to step
10:15 22 down on the 2nd of February.
10:15 23 This is not a farewell address. But I
10:15 24 thought I'd take this opportunity to share a few
10:15 25 thoughts on the subject --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:15 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: General, have you reached
10:15 2 the age sixty mandatory retirement?
10:15 3 GENERAL PECK: Actually, Governor, I've
10:15 4 reached sixty-seven. I'm not sure it's
10:15 5 mandatory, but it may be desirable.
10:15 6 I thought it might be opportune to give you
10:15 7 a few thoughts on veterans' affairs in the State
10:15 8 of Florida today.
10:15 9 We've made a lot of progress since veterans
10:15 10 affairs language -- as a Division within the
10:15 11 Department of Administration prior to 1989.
10:15 12 Today we assist hundreds of thousands of
10:15 13 veterans, literally, in obtaining the benefits
10:15 14 and services to which they're entitled.
10:15 15 We train and certify the county veterans'
10:16 16 service officers in 67 counties, and along the
10:16 17 way, train volunteers in post barracks and
10:16 18 chapters. And the training program we have
10:16 19 developed, I'm proud to say, has been adopted by
10:16 20 more than half of the other states as a model
10:16 21 for their training program.
10:16 22 We run veterans programs -- veterans' homes
10:16 23 in Lake City, a domiciliary home, which is
10:16 24 essentially an old soldier's home; and a model
10:16 25 state veterans' nursing home in Daytona Beach,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:16 1 which I'm happy to say is above 95 percent
10:16 2 occupancy; and for the typical resident, costs
10:16 3 the State of Florida less than 15 percent of the
10:16 4 cost of care.
10:16 5 So for a burden the state must bear in any
10:16 6 case, it's a cost-effective way to approach the
10:16 7 necessity of providing extended health care.
10:16 8 This is not -- I'm here today because this
10:16 9 is not the time to reduce the effort in
10:16 10 veterans' affairs. Florida has the second
10:16 11 largest veteran population in the nation, second
10:16 12 only to California, although only the fourth
10:16 13 most populace state.
10:16 14 We have the oldest median age veteran
10:16 15 population, we have the most infirm veteran
10:17 16 population in terms of adjudicated disability by
10:17 17 the U.S. Department of Administration,
10:17 18 U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs.
10:17 19 All of these things would portend more,
10:17 20 rather than fewer, federal dollars for veterans
10:17 21 in Florida. That's been a tough fight. During
10:17 22 the last decade, one-half of all the veterans in
10:17 23 the United States who relocated, relocated to
10:17 24 the state of Florida, which is a startling
10:17 25 figure.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:17 1 Yet at the same time, New York state, as an
10:17 2 example, has 150,000 fewer veterans than
10:17 3 Florida; has twelve VA medical centers, compared
10:17 4 to six in Florida.
10:17 5 Last year, the VA spent 1.278 billion
10:17 6 dollars on health care in New York; and seven
10:17 7 hundred seventy-five million in Florida with an
10:17 8 older, more infirm population, none of which
10:17 9 makes any sense.
10:17 10 We have made progress this year. We had
10:17 11 convinced the powers that be in the VA that our
10:18 12 case was genuine. And, in fact, you will note
10:18 13 that the administration budget included
10:18 14 154.7 million dollars for a new VA medical
10:18 15 center in Brevard County. That's been lost in
10:18 16 the budget wars in Washington, with which you
10:18 17 have more familiarity than I do, Governor. You
10:18 18 know how those things work.
10:18 19 Fortunately, our two senators are working
10:18 20 on a compromise whereby we may get a nursing
10:18 21 home and an outpatient clinic in Viera, north of
10:18 22 Melbourne, where that medical center would have
10:18 23 gone.
10:18 24 But at this point, where we began to make
10:18 25 progress, we need to keep the pressure on to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:18 1 continue that progress.
10:18 2 I want to give you some figures to
10:18 3 illustrate that. If you count the expenditures
10:18 4 the VA makes in Florida, if you add military
10:18 5 retired pay, you add the value of home loans,
10:18 6 compensation pension, veterans add more than
10:18 7 7 billion dollars a year to the economy of
10:18 8 Florida, which is more than any of the
10:18 9 individual interests many of you represent in
10:19 10 agriculture and other pursuits.
10:19 11 So no state in the union has a -- a
10:19 12 stronger vested interest in ensuring that
10:19 13 veterans get everything to which they're
10:19 14 entitled because it's good not only for the
10:19 15 veteran, it's good for the state of Florida.
10:19 16 I want to solicit your support for whomever
10:19 17 is selected to replace me ultimately. And I
10:19 18 want to thank you for the support and
10:19 19 encouragement you have given me in the time
10:19 20 we've been running a department since
10:19 21 January 1989. I want to thank you from the
10:19 22 bottom of my heart for all that help.
10:19 23 And at the same time, I want to extend to
10:19 24 you a -- a heartfelt wish for a joyous holiday
10:19 25 season, and a magnificent and prosperous new
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
December 12, 1995
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10:19 1 year.
10:19 2 Thank you very much.
10:19 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much,
10:19 4 General. We'll look forward --
10:19 5 administration --
6 (The Department of Veterans' Affairs Agenda
7 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
December 12, 1995
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10:19 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Highway
2 Safety and Motor Vehicles.
10:20 3 Information Resource Commission.
10:20 4 MR. DOUGLAS: Good morning, Governor,
10:20 5 members of the Cabinet.
10:20 6 Item number 1 is approval of the minutes of
10:20 7 the meeting of November 7th, 1995.
10:20 8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So move.
10:20 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:20 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:20 11 Without objection, minutes are approved.
10:20 12 MR. DOUGLAS: Item number 2 is approval of
10:20 13 an amendment to the agency strategic plan for
10:20 14 Information Resources Management of the Public
10:20 15 Defender's Office of the Thirteenth Judicial
10:20 16 Circuit.
10:20 17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:20 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:20 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:20 20 Without objection, it's approved.
10:20 21 MR. DOUGLAS: Governor, I would like to
10:20 22 request that we defer item number 3, the
10:20 23 approval of recommendations of the Public Access
10:20 24 User Advisory Group, until the next meeting of
10:20 25 the Governor and Cabinet on January the 23rd.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
December 12, 1995
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10:20 1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
10:20 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:20 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:20 4 Without objection, it's approved.
10:20 5 MR. DOUGLAS: Thank you.
6 (The Information Resource Commission Agenda
7 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES
December 12, 1995
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10:20 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now Department of Highway
10:20 2 Safety.
10:20 3 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, our sole item is
10:21 4 the request for approval to purchase a
10:21 5 replacement computer for our motor vehicle
10:21 6 network for the --
10:21 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:21 8 MR. DICKINSON: -- tax collectors of
10:21 9 Florida.
10:21 10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:21 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:21 12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you.
10:21 14 I'd like to wish everyone a happy and safe
10:21 15 holiday, and may God bless for the new year.
10:21 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much.
17 (The Department of Highway Safety and Motor
18 Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:21 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: The Florida Department of
10:21 2 Law Enforcement.
10:21 3 MR. MOORE: Governor, item 1 is the minutes
10:21 4 of the October 12 Cabinet meeting.
10:21 5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:21 6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:21 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:21 9 Without objection, it's approved.
10:21 10 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is our quarterly
10:21 11 progress report from July through September of
10:21 12 '95.
10:21 13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move it.
10:21 14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:21 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:21 16 Without objection, it's approved.
10:21 17 MR. MOORE: Item 3 is a recently completed
10:21 18 performance audit, compliance audit, of the
10:21 19 Department for calendar year 1994.
10:21 20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:21 21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:21 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:21 23 Without objection, it's approved.
10:21 24 MR. MOORE: Governor, item 4 is a very
10:21 25 important item for us, not only in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:21 1 department, but I think for you and the Cabinet,
10:21 2 as head of the agency, and for the state of
3 Florida.
10:22 4 As you know, back in 1990, the Department
10:22 5 of Law Enforcement became the first statewide
10:22 6 criminal investigative agency in the country to
10:22 7 be accredited by the Commission on the
10:22 8 Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies.
10:22 9 We were extremely proud of that -- that
10:22 10 accomplishment at the time, and we remain so
10:22 11 today. The original accreditation was for a
10:22 12 period of five years.
10:22 13 I'm happy to report to you that we've
10:22 14 recently committed the rigorous process for
10:22 15 reaccredition by the Commission. That's
10:22 16 something that we take great pride in, and I
10:22 17 know that you do as well, because that gives a
10:22 18 lot of reinforcement to our credibility as an
10:22 19 organization; to our professionalism; and gives,
10:22 20 frankly, peace of mind to our citizens that
10:22 21 we're doing things the way things should be
22 done.
10:22 23 You'll also recall that earlier this year I
10:22 24 had the pleasure of standing before you and
10:22 25 sharing in the -- in the honor of -- of getting
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:22 1 our statewide crime laboratory system accredited
10:22 2 as well by the American Society for Crime Lab
10:22 3 Directors at a time when crime laboratory
10:22 4 examinations and law enforcement in general was
10:22 5 really, and continues, to undergo a lot of
10:22 6 scrutiny.
10:23 7 This accomplishment for reaccreditation by
10:23 8 the Commission is certainly a tribute to your
10:23 9 leadership, and your continued support of the
10:23 10 Department of Law Enforcement.
10:23 11 And it's also a tribute to the
10:23 12 accomplishment and hard work of the men and
10:23 13 women and to the members of the Department.
10:23 14 If you'd indulge me just a moment, I'd like
10:23 15 to ask the members of our leadership team to
10:23 16 stand up and to be recognized, and to publicly
10:23 17 say thanks to them for their efforts during the
10:23 18 process.
10:23 19 Would you men and women please stand,
10:23 20 please.
10:23 21 (Applause).
10:23 22 MR. MOORE: We're very privileged today to
10:23 23 have with us Mr. Richard Kitterman. Dick is the
10:23 24 Executive Director of the Commission on the
10:23 25 Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies, and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:23 1 he is here to present to you today the
10:23 2 reaccreditation certificate for the Department
3 of Law Enforcement.
10:23 4 Mr. Kitterman.
10:23 5 MR. KITTERMAN: Thank you.
10:23 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
10:23 7 MR. KITTERMAN: Governor Chiles, members of
10:23 8 the Cabinet, the Commission recognizes that the
10:23 9 challenge to law enforcement is greater today
10:24 10 than ever before. Social problems, violence,
10:24 11 and the fear of crime have placed demands on
10:24 12 law enforcement to protect and serve even more
10:24 13 now than ever before.
10:24 14 While crime and the social problems that
10:24 15 plague our states, cities, and communities are
10:24 16 everyone's responsibility, law enforcement still
10:24 17 plays a major role to stand as a shield and
10:24 18 guard us from harm.
10:24 19 It's an awesome responsibility, and its
10:24 20 demands have become extremely complex,
10:24 21 technical, and often dangerous.
10:24 22 In 1979, the four major professional
10:24 23 law enforcement membership associations, the
10:24 24 International Association of Chiefs of Police,
10:24 25 the National Organization of Black
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
27
10:24 1 Law Enforcement Executives, the National
10:24 2 Sheriffs Association, and the Police Executive
10:24 3 Research Forum formed this Commission and a
10:24 4 national accreditation program.
5 This program is a profession driven audit
10:24 6 system that recognizes excellence in those
10:24 7 agencies who can demonstrate compliance with a
10:25 8 wide range of professional standards set by our
10:25 9 industry to ensure commitment all across the
10:25 10 country.
10:25 11 Participation in this program is
10:25 12 voluntary. Since the induction of Canadian
10:25 13 agencies into this accreditation program,
10:25 14 recognition of an agency's professional status
10:25 15 is now both national, as well as international.
10:25 16 In July of 19-- in July 28th, 1990, the
10:25 17 Florida Department of Law Enforcement became the
10:25 18 156th agency nationally to be accredited by this
10:25 19 Commission.
10:25 20 Their accomplishments then are not unlike
10:25 21 what Florida's going to do to Nebraska very
10:25 22 shortly in the Fiesta Bowl.
10:25 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Here, here.
10:25 24 MR. KITTERMAN: It's going to be a
10:25 25 tremendous day of excitement for them, and it
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:25 1 was a tremendous day of excitement and pride for
10:25 2 them. They were able to say, we're okay; we are
10:25 3 professional; we are the best.
10:25 4 But being able to say that, to also
10:26 5 establish some expectations, they then have to
10:26 6 say, we will be the best next year, we will
10:26 7 always be the best. And that's what we're here
10:26 8 today, to celebrate the fact that they are still
10:26 9 the best.
10:26 10 When this Commission accredited FDLE in
10:26 11 1990, it also required them to maintain their
10:26 12 compliance with all applicable standards for the
10:26 13 award period. The Commission offered them the
10:26 14 opportunity to reaffirm that commitment, and
10:26 15 they have accepted.
10:26 16 In September of this year, the agency
10:26 17 underwent a thorough inspection by a peer group
10:26 18 who came in from various parts of this country.
19 Inspector Mark W. Huguley of the South Carolina
10:26 20 State Law Enforcement Division was the team
21 leader; was assisted by Chief James M. Beatty,
10:26 22 Sr., of the Maryland Port Authority Police
23 Department, and Special Agent Roger D. Allen of
10:26 24 the North Carolina State Bureau of
25 Investigation.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:26 1 This assessment team reported to the
10:26 2 Commission that this agency stayed in compliance
10:26 3 with 293 applicable standards for the period of
10:27 4 five years. In recognition of that sustained
10:27 5 commitment and performance, this Commission is
10:27 6 deeply honored to present this second
10:27 7 Certificate of Accreditation to the Florida
10:27 8 Department of Law Enforcement.
10:27 9 Now, before I present this to not only you,
10:27 10 Governor, but to Commissioner Moore, I think
10:27 11 it's important that this plaque -- and plaques
10:27 12 sometimes are handed out, and nobody bothers to
10:27 13 read them. But I think it's important that the
10:27 14 citizens of this state hear what this -- what
10:27 15 this endeavor means.
10:27 16 The plaque reads: Be it hereby known that
10:27 17 the Florida Department of Law Enforcement,
10:27 18 having fully demonstrated its voluntary
10:27 19 commitment to law enforcement excellence by
10:27 20 living up to a body of standards deemed
10:27 21 essential to the protection of life, health,
10:27 22 safety, and the rights of the citizens it
10:27 23 serves, and having exemplified the best
10:27 24 professional practices in the conduct of its
10:27 25 responsibilities, is hereby, upon the
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
December 12, 1995
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10:27 1 recommendation of the members of the Commission
10:27 2 on Accreditation for Law Enforcement Agencies,
10:27 3 Incorporated, awarded this Certificate of
10:28 4 Accreditation effective July 28, 1995, and is
10:28 5 recognized as an accredited law enforcement
10:28 6 agency for a period of five years.
10:28 7 The certificate is signed by the Commission
10:28 8 President, Chief Ronald E. Nelson; and myself as
10:28 9 Executive Director.
10:28 10 Congratulations to Commissioner Moore; to
10:28 11 you, Governor; and to you, the members of the
10:28 12 Cabinet. This is a job well done.
10:28 13 Congratulations.
10:29 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10:29 15 Tim, we certainly congratulate you and your
10:29 16 fine people for this -- this recognition of the
10:29 17 outstanding job you're doing.
10:29 18 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor. Thank you
10:29 19 very much.
20 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
21 Agenda was concluded.)
22 *
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
December 12, 1995
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10:29 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Department of Revenue.
10:29 2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning, Governor, and
10:29 3 members of the Cabinet.
10:29 4 On behalf of the employees at the
10:29 5 Department of Revenue, like to wish everyone a
10:29 6 happy holiday season, and a wonderful new year.
10:30 7 Item 1 is a request for approval of the
10:30 8 minutes of the November 29th meeting.
10:30 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move
10:30 10 approval.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:30 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:30 13 Without objection, it's approved.
10:30 14 MR. FUCHS: Items 2 through 5 are consent
10:30 15 items repealing obsolete rules and portions
10:30 16 thereof, and conforming the remainder to
10:30 17 statutory changes.
10:30 18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:30 19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
10:30 20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:30 21 Without objection, it's approved.
10:30 22 MR. FUCHS: Item 6 is a request for the
10:30 23 Commission to submit our strategic plan. This
10:30 24 is a new approach for us. It's integrated with
10:30 25 program budgeting and performance accountability
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December 12, 1995
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10:30 1 measures to show clear direction and provide for
10:30 2 accurate measurement of our progress.
10:30 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would move
10:30 4 approval, Governor.
10:30 5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:30 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:30 7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
10:30 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: I want to take this
10:30 10 opportunity to congratulate the Department of
10:30 11 Revenue. Y'all are really setting the curve in
10:30 12 regard to quality management, performance based
10:31 13 budgeting, accountability outcomes, goal
10:31 14 outcomes, and it -- it's certainly showing up in
10:31 15 the services that are being given to the people
10:31 16 of the state of Florida.
10:31 17 We hope that all of our other agencies will
10:31 18 try to follow the lead that y'all are setting
10:31 19 out.
10:31 20 MR. FUCHS: I thank you for the kind words,
10:31 21 Governor. It's an effort by everyone in the
10:31 22 agency. I'm just a cheerleader.
10:31 23 But we don't pretend to have the only way,
10:31 24 and we certainly don't pretend to be perfect.
10:31 25 We're learning a lot of things from many of the
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
December 12, 1995
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10:31 1 other agencies in Florida government and
10:31 2 elsewhere around the country.
10:31 3 It's -- it's hard work, and we do
10:31 4 appreciate the recognition.
10:31 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
10:31 6 MR. FUCHS: Thank you, sir.
7 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
8 concluded.)
9 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
December 12, 1995
34
10:31 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
10:31 2 MR. PIERSON: Governor, members of the
10:31 3 State Board of Education, Item 1, approval of
10:32 4 the minutes of the meeting held on October 24th.
10:32 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
10:32 6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:32 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:32 8 Without objection, it's approved.
10:32 9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is a contract for
10:32 10 management of day-to-day operations of the
10:32 11 Recovery Network Program for Educators.
10:32 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:32 13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:32 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:32 15 Without objection, it's approved.
10:32 16 MR. PIERSON: Items 3 and 4 are
10:32 17 State University System rules.
10:32 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would move approval
10:32 19 of items 3 and 4, Governor.
10:32 20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:32 21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
10:32 22 items 3 and 4.
10:32 23 Without objection, they are approved.
10:32 24 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room).
10:32 25 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is an appointment to
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
December 12, 1995
35
10:32 1 the Lake City Community College District Board
10:32 2 of Trustees.
10:32 3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:32 4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:32 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:32 6 Without objection, it's approved.
10:32 7 MR. PIERSON: Item 6, a request for
10:32 8 approval and adoption of a resolution
10:32 9 authorizing the sale of two hundred forty-two
10:32 10 million six hundred ninety-five thousand
10:32 11 dollars, Florida Board of Education Capital
10:32 12 Outlay Bonds.
10:32 13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
10:32 14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:32 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:32 16 Without objection, it's approved.
10:32 17 MR. PIERSON: Item 7, request for approval,
10:32 18 adoption of the tenth supplemental authorizing
10:32 19 resolution for a hundred and ninety million
10:32 20 dollars, State of Florida Full Faith and Credit
10:33 21 Bonds.
10:33 22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:33 23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:33 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:33 25 Without objection, that's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
December 12, 1995
36
1 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
2 concluded.)
3 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
December 12, 1995
37
10:33 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Career
10:33 2 Education.
10:33 3 MR. PIERSON: Item 1, minutes of meeting
10:33 4 held on October 12th for approval.
10:33 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
10:33 6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:33 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:33 8 Without objection, it's approved.
10:33 9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is the Vocational
10:33 10 Program Performance Status Report for
10:33 11 information only.
10:33 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Would you like --
10:33 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
10:33 14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- formal acceptance,
10:33 15 Governor, I would move it.
10:33 16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:33 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:33 18 Without objection, it's approved.
10:33 19 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is a recommendation
10:33 20 for fees for '96-'97, Adult Vocational Job
10:33 21 Preparatory and Vocational Supplemental Programs
10:33 22 submitted in the course with Florida Statute
10:33 23 239.117.
10:33 24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:33 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF CAREER EDUCATION
December 12, 1995
38
10:33 1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10:33 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: And seconded.
10:33 3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 Thank you, sir.
5 (The State Board of Career Education Agenda
6 was concluded.)
7 *
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
December 12, 1995
39
10:33 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Administration
10:34 2 Commission.
10:34 3 MS. SITTIG: Item number 1, recommend
10:34 4 approval of the minutes of the meeting held
10:34 5 November 29th, 1995.
10:34 6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:34 7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10:34 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:34 9 Without objection, it's approved.
10:34 10 MS. SITTIG: Item number 2, recommend the
10:34 11 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
10:34 12 the administered funds.
10:34 13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:34 14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:34 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:34 16 Without objection, it's approved.
10:34 17 MS. SITTIG: Item number 3, recommend the
10:34 18 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
10:34 19 the Department of Corrections.
10:34 20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:34 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10:34 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:34 23 Without objection, it's approved.
10:34 24 MS. SITTIG: Item number 4, recommend the
10:34 25 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
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December 12, 1995
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10:34 1 the Department of Elder Affairs.
10:34 2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:34 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:34 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:34 5 Without objection, it's approved.
10:34 6 MS. SITTIG: Item number 5 recommend the
10:34 7 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
10:34 8 the Department of Elder Affairs and the
10:34 9 Department of Health and Human Services.
10:34 10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
10:34 11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:35 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:35 13 Without objection, it's approved.
10:35 14 MS. SITTIG: Item number 6, recommend the
10:35 15 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
10:35 16 the Department of Health and Human Services.
10:35 17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move the item.
10:35 18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:35 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:35 20 Without objection, it's approved.
10:35 21 MS. SITTIG: Item number 7, recommend the
10:35 22 transfer of General Revenue appropriations in
10:35 23 the Department of State.
10:35 24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
10:35 25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
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December 12, 1995
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10:35 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:35 2 Without objection, it's approved.
10:35 3 MS. SITTIG: Item number 8, recommend
10:35 4 authorizing the Secretary to enter the amended
10:35 5 draft final order; approve and adopt Rule 28,
10:35 6 dash, 20.100, Florida Administrative Code; and
10:35 7 approve and adopt Rule 28, dash, 20.025, Florida
8 Administrative Code.
10:35 9 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
10:35 10 MS. SITTIG: There are several parties and
10:35 11 individuals who wish to speak. Time limits have
10:35 12 been placed on the speakers.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let's move
10:35 14 number 9 first.
10:35 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Can we do Item 9, skip
10:35 16 over to that?
10:35 17 MS. SITTIG: Okay. Item number 9,
10:35 18 recommend the transfer of General Revenue
10:36 19 appropriations in the Justice Administration
10:36 20 Commission from the Administered Funds
10:36 21 deficiency fund to the Second Circuit
10:36 22 Public Defender.
10:36 23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval of a
10:36 24 good cause item, Governor.
10:36 25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
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10:36 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:36 2 Without objection --
10:36 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: May I make
10:36 4 just one comment, Governor?
10:36 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
10:36 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is --
10:36 7 this is a very important item. I think the
10:36 8 Public Defender, Nancy Daniels, is here.
10:36 9 With Court imposed deadlines, amending of
10:36 10 the major cases, especially death cases, in this
10:36 11 particular Circuit -- or District of
10:36 12 approximately 30 counties, mainly very, very
10:36 13 poor counties, in order to meet the deadline,
10:36 14 the alternative would have been for the public
10:36 15 to ask the counties to have picked up the tab.
10:36 16 And so here the smaller counties, the more
10:36 17 rural counties, will be able to not -- they will
10:36 18 not do that. So really the Public Defender is
10:36 19 to be handling it in the particular manner
10:36 20 for -- from a standpoint of justice issues, as
10:36 21 well as fiscal, we do commend her for that.
10:36 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Then we go
10:37 23 back to Item 8.
10:37 24 MS. SITTIG: As I mentioned, there are
10:37 25 several parties and individuals that wish to
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December 12, 1995
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10:37 1 speak. Time limits have been set. We'd like to
10:37 2 start with Dan Stengle, Acting Secretary of the
10:37 3 Department of Community Affairs.
10:37 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. What are your
10:37 5 time limits?
10:37 6 MS. SITTIG: Fifteen minutes for the
10:37 7 Department, fifteen minutes for the County, and
10:37 8 then we've got five minutes each for a number of
10:37 9 intervenors, and a minute each for some
10:37 10 individuals from the public.
10:37 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: We want to thank all of
10:37 12 you for coming up from Monroe County. I know
10:37 13 that's a long, long ways. And tell you that in
10:37 14 some instances, I know that the time that we're
10:37 15 giving you is short.
10:37 16 We do have an agenda that is awfully,
10:37 17 awfully full today. We want to have everybody
10:37 18 have an opportunity to be heard. So we hope you
10:37 19 will follow our time restrictions.
10:37 20 Including you, sir.
10:37 21 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir.
10:38 22 Thank you, Governor.
10:38 23 Governor, members of the Cabinet, I'm
10:38 24 Dan Stengle, I'm general counsel at the
10:38 25 Department of Community Affairs, and
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10:38 1 Acting Secretary for the purposes of this case,
10:38 2 since Secretary Murley has recused himself from
10:38 3 consideration of this case.
10:38 4 We're here before the Governor and Cabinet
10:38 5 to discuss remedial actions necessary to bring
10:38 6 the Monroe County 2010 Comprehensive Plan into
10:38 7 compliance.
10:38 8 This is an area of a critical State
10:38 9 concern, as designated in Chapter 380 of the
10:38 10 Florida Statutes.
10:38 11 As a result, the Department has oversight
10:38 12 authority to approve the Comprehensive Plan, and
10:38 13 the Administration Commission must exercise
10:38 14 rulemaking authority to amend the plan.
10:38 15 So the Monroe County plan must comply with
10:38 16 both the growth management mandates of
10:38 17 Chapter 163, and the Principles for Guiding
10:38 18 Development in the Florida Keys of Chapter 380.
10:38 19 Just to give you a brief background on what
10:38 20 brought us here today, the County adopted a plan
10:38 21 in 1991, which the Department found not in
10:39 22 compliance, which lead in 1993 to the remedial
10:39 23 plan, which was also found not in compliance,
10:39 24 and was the subject of a lengthy administrative
10:39 25 hearing involving a number of parties.
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10:39 1 The Administration Commission proposed a
10:39 2 rule to cure the noncompliance provisions of the
10:39 3 plan, which was also a part of the
10:39 4 administrative hearing.
10:39 5 The Administration Commission additionally
10:39 6 proposed a rule to provide interim land
10:39 7 development regulations to bridge the gap
10:39 8 pending the effectiveness of the new remedial
10:39 9 plan.
10:39 10 The hearing officer found the plan not in
10:39 11 compliance, and invalidated a number of policies
10:39 12 because they were not stringent enough.
10:39 13 The recommended order found the bulk of the
10:39 14 plan to be in compliance. But this order is
10:39 15 unique and unprecedented in that it detailed the
10:39 16 parameters for compliance, but did not specify
10:39 17 the particular actions necessary to bring those
10:39 18 provisions into compliance.
10:39 19 Therefore, a final order, or final action
10:39 20 of the Administration Commission specifying
10:40 21 remedial actions is needed.
10:40 22 In accordance with the recent Supreme Court
23 decision in Morman, the State is the steward of
10:40 24 the environment, and remedial actions to bring
10:40 25 the Monroe County Comprehensive Plan into
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10:40 1 compliance must be determined by the State.
10:40 2 The assistance of the Department's sister
10:40 3 agencies is needed in order to implement the
10:40 4 findings of the recommended order.
10:40 5 Today I'd just like to present you with the
10:40 6 most important findings of the hearing officer
10:40 7 directly related to the Principles for Guiding
10:40 8 Development.
10:40 9 The Principles require Monroe County to
10:40 10 ensure sound economic development. The hearing
10:40 11 officer concluded that a healthy economy is,
10:40 12 quote, inextricably linked, close quote, to a
10:40 13 healthy environment. Specifically clean, clear
14 water.
10:40 15 First, the hearing officer found that the
10:40 16 nearshore waters in the Florida Keys have
10:40 17 exceeded the carrying capacity for further
18 assimilation of nutrient impacts caused by
10:41 19 inadequate storm water and wastewater
10:41 20 treatment.
10:41 21 No further development, according to the
10:41 22 recommended order, should be approved that would
10:41 23 result in a net increase in nutrient loading to
10:41 24 nearshore waters.
10:41 25 Two, the hearing officer found that a State
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47
10:41 1 standard for effluent discharge are inadequate
10:41 2 to protect the nearshore waters of the
10:41 3 Florida Keys.
10:41 4 Three, the hearing officer found that sea
10:41 5 grasses in the Florida Keys have reached
10:41 6 carrying capacity for further assimilation of
10:41 7 nutrients and the ability to recover from
8 impacts caused by proper etching from boats.
10:41 9 Four, the hearing officer found that the
10:41 10 carrying capacity of the critically endangered
10:41 11 Key deer has been reached with respect to the
10:41 12 species' ability to withstand any further
10:41 13 impacts from vehicular collisions and loss of
10:41 14 habitat and fresh water resources.
10:41 15 Five, the hearing officer found that
10:42 16 development should not be allowed that would
10:42 17 negatively impact Key deer corridors, fresh
10:42 18 water resources, or habitat areas. This
10:42 19 limitation would apply both to Big Pine Key and
10:42 20 to No Name Key.
10:42 21 Six, the hearing officer found that North
22 Key Largo, Ohio Key, and Coupon Bight have
10:42 23 virtually no capacity to sustain development and
10:42 24 still maintain their unique environmental
10:42 25 characteristics and importance.
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10:42 1 Seven, the hearing officer found that
10:42 2 disturbed wetlands that retain functional value
10:42 3 are not adequately protected.
10:42 4 Eight, the hearing officer found that
10:42 5 permitting of docks and water depths of 3 feet,
10:42 6 or less, fails to adequately protect marine
10:42 7 resources. A water depth standard according to
10:42 8 the hearing officer of 4 feet would minimize the
10:42 9 impacts of boating on sea grasses and water
10:42 10 quality.
10:42 11 Proposed rule 28, dash, 20.100, which
10:42 12 requires continuous access to open water for
10:43 13 development in open shorelines is in compliance.
10:43 14 Number nine, the hearing officer found that
10:43 15 an evacuation time from the Florida Keys of
10:43 16 greater than 24 hours is unacceptable.
10:43 17 Evacuation standards, according to the
10:43 18 recommended order, cannot exceed 24 hours.
10:43 19 Additional development should be limited to
10:43 20 that amount that can be accommodated while
10:43 21 maintaining a 24-hour evacuation standard and
10:43 22 remain within acceptable environmental carrying
10:43 23 capacities.
10:43 24 Ten, the Permit Allocation System, or PAS,
10:43 25 will not work to achieve the intent of the
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10:43 1 permit allocation policies unless sufficient
10:43 2 competition exists -- exists among the permit
10:43 3 applicants.
10:43 4 On the Permit Allocation System, the county
10:43 5 plan incorporates this system that limits the
10:43 6 number of permits based on hurricane evacuation
10:43 7 and environmental concerns.
10:43 8 Applicants compete for permits under the
10:44 9 system on a quarterly basis. And permit
10:44 10 applications are scored based on positive
10:44 11 factors and negative factors. Applicants,
10:44 12 for example, developing in sensitive areas
10:44 13 receive negative points.
10:44 14 This approach toward environmental
10:44 15 protection will only work, the hearing officer
10:44 16 found, if sufficient competition exists, which
10:44 17 means that more applications must be submitted
10:44 18 than the available number of permits that can be
10:44 19 issued. If more permits are available than the
10:44 20 number of applications submitted, then all
10:44 21 applicants will receive a permit regardless of
10:44 22 the environmental impacts involved.
10:44 23 Therefore, the Department supports a
10:44 24 reduced rate of growth so as to ensure
10:44 25 competition as well as effective habitat
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10:44 1 protection.
10:44 2 Finally, number eleven. The
10:44 3 hearing officer found that proposed County
10:44 4 policy number 1, which defines funding
10:44 5 responsibilities, is rejected. The County is
10:44 6 responsible for implementing the plan, and must
10:44 7 commit to reasonable funding.
10:44 8 However, the County is not required to
10:45 9 raise property taxes. To the extent that the
10:45 10 State should assist the County with funding
10:45 11 needs but fails to do so, the County is not
10:45 12 required to provide such funds.
10:45 13 While the Department and the County have
10:45 14 reached agreement on a revised funding policy
10:45 15 that reflects the intent of the order, it is
10:45 16 clear that substantial funding will be needed to
10:45 17 protect the environment of the Keys, including
10:45 18 land acquisition costs.
10:45 19 Under the Permit Allocation System, the
10:45 20 County must purchase environmentally sensitive
10:45 21 properties that are denied in allocation, or
10:45 22 ultimately issue the permit. This is consistent
23 with the Supreme Court's findings in the Morman
10:45 24 case that the state must be willing to
10:45 25 compensate, where necessary, for the exercise of
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10:45 1 the state's stewardship.
10:45 2 We are asking the Administration Commission
10:45 3 today to take the following four actions, those
10:45 4 are our recommendations: To adopt the
10:45 5 recommended order and enter a final order
10:45 6 finding the Monroe County Comprehensive Plan not
10:46 7 in compliance.
10:46 8 Number two, withdraw the provisions of the
10:46 9 Administration Commission rules amending the
10:46 10 plan and providing interim land development
10:46 11 regulations that were invalidated by the
10:46 12 hearing officer.
10:46 13 Three, adopt the valid provisions of the
10:46 14 Administration Commission rules to replace
10:46 15 portions of the plan found not in compliance,
10:46 16 and to establish interim land development
10:46 17 regulations.
10:46 18 And four, our original recommendation was
10:46 19 to order mediation to address the compliance
10:46 20 issues raised in a recommended order, but not
10:46 21 necessarily resolved by the Administration
10:46 22 Commission rule. Particularly we had asked for
10:46 23 consideration of pointing us toward mediation in
10:46 24 the areas of water quality and development in
10:46 25 Key deer habitat.
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10:46 1 We understand that the staff recommendation
10:46 2 of the Administration Commission does not
10:46 3 include mediation, and calls for immediate
10:46 4 promulgation of a remedial rule addressing the
10:47 5 remaining compliance issues needed to bring
10:47 6 Monroe County Comprehensive Plan into
10:47 7 compliance. The Department of Community Affairs
10:47 8 does not object to the staff recommendation.
10:47 9 Lastly, the Department has filed a response
10:47 10 in opposition to the petition for intervention
10:47 11 in this proceeding filed by the Big Pine Key
10:47 12 Joint Venture on the grounds that the joint
10:47 13 venture has not and cannot satisfy the
10:47 14 jurisdictional standard requirements of
10:47 15 Chapter 163.
10:47 16 Thank you. Have any questions?
10:47 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
10:47 18 MR. STENGLE: We --
10:47 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: We may have some
10:47 20 questions.
10:47 21 Don't seem to have any right now.
10:47 22 MR. STENGLE: Thank you.
10:47 23 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is Bob Apgar
10:47 24 representing Monroe County. And he would -- is
10:47 25 going to take 5 minutes.
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10:47 1 Then Jack London, a Monroe County
10:47 2 Commissioner, doing 5 minutes.
10:47 3 And then the County wants their last
10:47 4 5 minutes to be done at the conclusion after the
10:47 5 rest of the speakers with the County --
10:47 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very well.
10:48 7 MS. SITTIG: -- Attorney, Jim Hendrick.
10:48 8 MR. APGAR: Good morning,
10:48 9 Governor Chiles --
10:48 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
10:48 11 MR. APGAR: -- Cabinet members. I'm
10:48 12 Bob Apgar with the firm of Apgar, Pelham and
10:48 13 Piper representing Monroe County.
10:48 14 Our -- the first speaker this morning is
10:48 15 going to be Commissioner Jack London, who is
10:48 16 our -- the designated member of the Board of
10:48 17 County Commissioners for -- worked with the
10:48 18 liaison on growth management matters with the
10:48 19 agency, and with you.
10:48 20 I'd like to introduce Commissioner London
10:48 21 at this time.
10:48 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Commissioner.
10:48 23 MR. LONDON: Good morning, Governor --
10:48 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning,
10:48 25 Commissioner.
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10:48 1 MR. LONDON: -- Cabinet officers.
10:48 2 You're elected officials, just as I am.
10:48 3 And this is one of those times when I wish I
10:48 4 wasn't. But I want to speak to you today as
10:48 5 elected officials.
10:48 6 People elect us because they believe we
10:48 7 will represent them to the best of our ability.
10:49 8 Some of our constituents even trust us.
10:49 9 There's a very special bond between us and
10:49 10 those who elect us. Since you are elected
10:49 11 officials, I'm going to ask you to put
10:49 12 yourselves in my shoes and the shoes of the
10:49 13 other Monroe County Commissioners I speak for
10:49 14 here today.
10:49 15 I've been a commissioner for over
10:49 16 five years now. Back in 1990 when I ran, I ran
10:49 17 on a platform to control development in the
10:49 18 Keys. I ran because I wanted to stop what was
10:49 19 happening there.
10:49 20 In fact, I defeated a commissioner who led
10:49 21 the so-called concrete coalition. I've lived up
10:49 22 to the promises I made when I ran for that
10:49 23 office.
10:49 24 And carrying out those pledges to reduce
10:49 25 growth was not easy. I've been to the wall any
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10:49 1 number of times.
10:50 2 In one instance, our Commission faced an
10:50 3 angry crowd carrying hangman's nooses when we
10:50 4 first attempted to pass our rate of growth
10:50 5 ordinance. We came away from that disastrous
10:50 6 meeting realizing the only way we were going to
10:50 7 pass a land use plan that protected our
10:50 8 environment was to work towards building a
10:50 9 consensus, and to convince the majority of our
10:50 10 citizens to accept the notion of controlling
10:50 11 development. And we did forge a consensus. We
10:50 12 argued, cajoled, and implored.
10:50 13 After hundreds of hours of hearings and
10:50 14 spending millions of dollars, we passed a plan
10:50 15 that disastrously -- or I should say
10:50 16 dramatically curtailed development in
10:50 17 Monroe County.
10:51 18 In fact, we reduced the number of permits
10:51 19 from new buildings from over 900 a year, to
10:51 20 255. That's better than a 300 percent
10:51 21 reduction.
10:51 22 The plan we adopted also controls
10:51 23 commercial development. We did this despite
10:51 24 warnings from cynics who said it was all in
10:51 25 vain, that the ultimate decisions would be made
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10:51 1 by special interests who had no constituency,
10:51 2 and who didn't want to face -- who don't have to
10:51 3 face the electorate with the consequences of
10:51 4 their recommendations.
10:51 5 I once asked DCA Secretary Bill Sadowski if
10:51 6 the State would be willing to write our land use
10:51 7 plan for us, and save us the expense and the
10:51 8 agony of public hearings where we face
10:51 9 vilification and ridicule by constituents who
10:52 10 simply don't trust government.
10:52 11 Secretary Sadowski would not allow us to do
10:52 12 that. He convinced our Commission that we had
10:52 13 the responsibility to craft a plan with our
10:52 14 citizens' participation. He described it as a
10:52 15 partnership between county government and state
10:52 16 government.
10:52 17 I'm here today to ask you as fellow elected
10:52 18 officials not to take us out of the process. It
10:52 19 would be a betrayal of that trust our
10:52 20 constituents have placed in us.
10:52 21 Allow us to continue to represent the
10:52 22 citizens of Monroe County. Allow them to
10:52 23 continue to believe that representative
10:52 24 government can work, and that they have some
10:52 25 control over their own destiny.
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10:52 1 The plan before you today is 97 percent in
10:52 2 compliance. It is considered by planners to be
10:53 3 a model for the rest of the state. I would also
10:53 4 point out that it is the most restrictive plan
10:53 5 in all of Florida.
10:53 6 We continue to be committed to negotiating
10:53 7 solutions to the two remaining issues, nearshore
10:53 8 water pollution and environmental concerns on
10:53 9 Big Pine Key.
10:53 10 But rulemaking, and the years of a costly
10:53 11 litigation which inevitably follow, make a
10:53 12 mockery of the notion that Chapter 163 is a
10:53 13 partnership between the state and responsible
10:53 14 local government. Don't punish us now for the
10:53 15 sins of previous commissions. If you start
10:53 16 rulemaking today, you will throw us into
10:53 17 litigation yet again.
10:53 18 I implore you to allow us to continue to
10:53 19 negotiate with the appropriate state agencies to
10:53 20 resolve our problems. A position recommended in
10:53 21 an editorial in today's Miami Herald: Please do
10:54 22 not allow special interests to assume de facto
10:54 23 control of Monroe County government.
10:54 24 Thank you very much.
10:54 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
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10:54 1 MR. APGAR: Governor, members of the
10:54 2 Cabinet, Commissioner London was one of our
10:54 3 leaders on the Commission during the five years
10:54 4 that we have fought and -- to have this
10:54 5 Comprehensive Plan adopted.
10:54 6 I thought it was particularly appropriate
10:54 7 that he speak to you today, and I know he did,
10:54 8 and we're close to the conclusion of that
10:54 9 process. As he told you, 97 percent of the
10:54 10 Comprehensive Plan is in compliance and ready to
10:54 11 take effect through your action today.
10:54 12 The first thing that Mr. Stengle asked you
10:54 13 to do from the staff recommendation is to finish
10:55 14 the rulemaking that started years and years and
10:55 15 many, many hours of litigation ago.
10:55 16 To get 97 percent of the plan in effect, I
10:55 17 want to tell you a little bit about how that
10:55 18 happened.
10:55 19 When we got to the end of the rule
10:55 20 challenge and Comprehensive Plan hearings last
10:55 21 summer, we reviewed that -- the
10:55 22 hearing officer's final and recommended orders,
10:55 23 and the County and the DCA and the intervenors
10:55 24 entered into settlement negotiations.
10:55 25 And we identified those parts of the
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10:55 1 Comprehensive Plan that survived the
10:55 2 hearing officer's review, or parts of the review
10:55 3 of the rule.
10:55 4 And the County had many genuine issues
10:55 5 regarding that part of the plan that we had lost
10:55 6 before the hearing officer. Issues on what
10:55 7 size -- how big the setbacks should be on
10:55 8 wetlands, on what lands development rights
10:55 9 should be transferred from, and what lands they
10:55 10 should be transferred to.
10:55 11 But in an effort to move this process
10:56 12 forward, to get agreement, the County Commission
10:56 13 authorized me to waive our appeal rights on all
10:56 14 of those parts of the original rule that the
10:56 15 hearing officer approved, and to join with DCA
10:56 16 in a motion to the hearing officer to set aside
10:56 17 the stay that occurs during appellate review so
10:56 18 that you today could take final action on
10:56 19 97 percent of the plan.
10:56 20 What the County asked in return for that
10:56 21 was simply the Department's agreement to propose
10:56 22 to you the language that Mr. Stengle talked
10:56 23 about that's in the new policy 5 that clarifies
10:56 24 the financial responsibilities of the County and
10:56 25 the State in this process, and virtually mirrors
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10:56 1 the hearing officer's order on that subject.
10:56 2 So we stand with DCA today asking you to
10:56 3 complete this rulemaking. Let's get our
10:56 4 Comprehensive Plan into effect. It can go into
10:56 5 effect before the end of this year, and start to
10:56 6 bring this process to closure.
10:57 7 Now, in the recommend-- the last
10:57 8 recommended final order that we saw before us
10:57 9 yesterday afternoon, your staff was also
10:57 10 recommending to you based on the Department's
10:57 11 recommendation that you send all the parties and
10:57 12 the agencies here off to a mediation process for
10:57 13 90 days before we get back into -- we have to go
10:57 14 back into rulemaking again.
10:57 15 And the purpose of that was to help us
10:57 16 resolve the rest of the issues in a cooperative,
10:57 17 mediation mode, rather than in a litigation
10:57 18 mode.
10:57 19 We're very close, we feel, to reaching a
10:57 20 consensus on a lot of those issues, if not all
10:57 21 of them. And this can be a very profitable
10:57 22 exercise.
10:57 23 But at 5:30 yesterday afternoon, to our
10:57 24 surprise, that recommendation --
10:57 25 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
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10:57 1 MR. APGAR: -- changed, and that the order
10:57 2 that's before you today, the provisions for
10:57 3 mediation, for cooperative decision making, are
10:58 4 struck through and replaced with litigation.
10:58 5 That may not look to you -- like that to you at
10:58 6 first glance. I want to explain that a little
7 bit.
10:58 8 The order that's before you asks you to
10:58 9 direct your Secretary to immediately publish
10:58 10 certain rules for adoption. When you do that by
10:58 11 law, a 21-day clock starts for anyone who feels
10:58 12 aggrieved by those rules to file a petition to
10:58 13 challenge them. We cannot waive that, we cannot
10:58 14 extend that.
10:58 15 Once that 2-- once those petitions are
10:58 16 filed, the statute specifies the hearing officer
10:58 17 has 30 days to conduct a hearing, unless all
10:58 18 parties waive those time limits, which we don't
10:58 19 expect to see happen.
10:58 20 Then you have 30 days for the
10:58 21 hearing officer to enter a recommended, or a
10:58 22 final order in the case.
10:58 23 And what I want to impress on you is if you
10:58 24 do that, you're throwing us back into
10:58 25 litigation. We've been in litigation for next
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10:59 1 to five years on this plan. We're finally close
10:59 2 to closure.
10:59 3 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
10:59 4 MR. APGAR: We see ways to resolve these
10:59 5 other issues, and there are many other issues.
10:59 6 But they need a consensus building process.
10:59 7 And I'm afraid that if you adopt the order
10:59 8 that's before you today, you will prevent that
10:59 9 from happening, because the time necessary to
10:59 10 prepare for litigation and conduct on those
10:59 11 tight time frames will simply make it impossible
10:59 12 for us to engage in any kind of negotiation.
10:59 13 And you add to that the fact that when you
10:59 14 get into that adversary relationship that
10:59 15 litigation produces, it tends to make people a
10:59 16 lot less open to problem solving and settlement
10:59 17 discussions.
10:59 18 We want to keep this process in a form of
10:59 19 open discussion and problem solving to try to
10:59 20 reach solutions. We want to go to that 90-day
10:59 21 mediation period and try to bring solutions back
10:59 22 to you, as was in the order that was on the
10:59 23 table before 5:30 yesterday afternoon.
11:00 24 The County has put forward solutions to
11:00 25 these problems, there are solutions in sight.
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11:00 1 We just ask you to give us the opportunity to do
11:00 2 that before we have to go back into litigation
11:00 3 again.
11:00 4 The final speaker for the County will be
11:00 5 County Attorney Jim Hendrick. Your staff has
11:00 6 graciously agreed to let him go last. So at
11:00 7 this point, I'll conclude the remarks for the
11:00 8 County, unless there are some questions.
11:00 9 Thank you.
11:00 10 MS. SITTIG: We've got six parties of
11:00 11 intervenors. The first party is 1000 Friends of
11:00 12 Florida. There are three individuals who
11:00 13 I think wanted to speak: Robert Parks,
11:00 14 Dr. John DeGrove, and Dr. Earl Starnes.
11:00 15 MR. PARKS: Good morning, Governor, and
11:00 16 distinguished members of the Cabinet.
11:01 17 My name is Bob Parks. I appear before you
11:01 18 as a member of the Board of 1000 Friends of
11:01 19 Florida and the Chair of its litigation
11:01 20 committee. And also as a property owner and
11:01 21 taxpayer in Monroe County.
11:01 22 And let me make very clear to all of you --
11:01 23 and I will be as brief as possible, but I do --
11:01 24 we do appreciate the time that we've been
11:01 25 given.
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11:01 1 -- precisely what 1000 Friends' position
11:01 2 is. And in order to understand that, I want to
11:01 3 give you, if I may, a 30-second synopsis of
11:01 4 where we have been in this issue, and in other
11:01 5 issues around the state, which affect, as our
6 first speaker cited from the Morman case,
11:01 7 those -- the responsibility of all of us,
11:01 8 particularly the Governor and Cabinet, to be the
11:01 9 stewards of the property of Florida.
11:01 10 1000 Friends of Florida was created to be,
11:01 11 if you will, a watchdog; but more importantly, a
11:01 12 partner in working with government and private
11:02 13 interest to bring about consensus, to bring
11:02 14 about plans which worked under the Growth
11:02 15 Management Act, to bring about things which
11:02 16 furthered both private property rights and the
11:02 17 stewardship and protection of a great state with
11:02 18 a very fragile environment.
11:02 19 And it has been the goal of this group
11:02 20 since its inception to do those kind of things,
11:02 21 and it has done them. And it's built up, I
11:02 22 might say, a very impressive track record in
11:02 23 terms of being into the process from day 1 of
11:02 24 every county in this state, and cities in this
11:02 25 state who have asked for our assistance from a
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11:02 1 planning standpoint.
11:02 2 It has assiduously avoided litigation, and
11:02 3 has screened -- and I can tell you as a
11:02 4 litigation chairman since its beginning, that it
11:02 5 has a very strict guideline for litigation, as
11:02 6 to when it gets involved, and how it gets
11:02 7 involved, and what limited role it must play,
11:02 8 because adversarial processes and the
11:02 9 environment do not necessarily find themselves
11:02 10 compatible.
11:03 11 It does all of those things, and it has
11:03 12 done all those things. And I stand here before
11:03 13 you this morning having words of things like
11:03 14 cooperative mediation modes and consensus about
11:03 15 this very significant issue in which
11:03 16 1000 Friends has been in, and was involved in
11:03 17 the litigation. And our counsel, our trial
11:03 18 lawyer, Mr. Grosso, Richard Grosso,
11:03 19 1000 Friends, is here to answer any questions on
11:03 20 specifics you may have.
11:03 21 And we've heard about these things, and
11:03 22 we've been involved in these things. We've been
11:03 23 consensus builders, we've worked with people, we
11:03 24 have avoided adversarial proceedings, except
11:03 25 when it was necessary.
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11:03 1 But now, as the poet said, the time has
11:03 2 come to talk of other things. The things now,
11:03 3 very simply, and this is what 1000 Friends'
11:03 4 position is: You have before you an order from
11:03 5 a hearing officer of great magnitude and
11:03 6 significant finding. We want you to approve it,
11:04 7 period. We want you to say, do it, period.
11:04 8 The time for -- this is the other thing we
11:04 9 ask: Follow what has been the process and all
11:04 10 of its failures and its strengths that has
11:04 11 culminating -- culminated in a decision. And if
11:04 12 that involves more litigation, I respectfully
11:04 13 suggest to each of you that it will be more
11:04 14 litigation.
11:04 15 But more delay and more consensus is not
11:04 16 going to solve the problem of Monroe County. It
11:04 17 is simply not going to do it. Those of us
11:04 18 who've been here for a while in the
11:04 19 environmental area and land use area, can go
11:04 20 back and trace a long history of this abuse.
11:04 21 This is not to point fingers at anybody,
11:04 22 it's not to blame anybody, it's not to criticize
11:04 23 anybody. But as stewards of the property of the
11:04 24 state of Florida, it is the responsibility of
11:04 25 this body, as well as all of its citizens, to
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11:04 1 make sure as to what that order said.
11:05 2 And it simply said, it's not a question of
11:05 3 private property rights; it is not a question of
11:05 4 development interests; it is not a question of
11:05 5 environmentalists; it is not a question of
11:05 6 synopsis and consensus; it is a question that
11:05 7 the system, the natural system, is breaking
11:05 8 down.
11:05 9 And if you waved a wand today, if you had
11:05 10 that power, and said, we're going to put that
11:05 11 hearing officer's program into effect this
11:05 12 second, we would have already lost, I suggest to
11:05 13 you, a lot of the things that are great about
11:05 14 the Florida Keys.
11:05 15 And every day that the clock ticks without
11:05 16 getting us closer to ultimate resolution is a
11:05 17 day that carries out that sentence.
11:05 18 Our position: Sign the order approving and
11:05 19 supporting the hearing officer, and issue an
11:05 20 order -- an emergency rule declaring a
11:05 21 moratorium on all further building in the Keys
11:05 22 until such time as the plan has been complied
11:06 23 with. 1000 Friends will be there with
11:06 24 Monroe County to the extent we are called upon
11:06 25 to work out that particular side of the problem.
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11:06 1 Thank you.
11:06 2 MS. SITTIG: The next intervenor is
11:06 3 James Mattson, representing DeCarion.
11:06 4 MR. MATTSON: Good morning. My name is
11:06 5 Jim Mattson. I live in Key Largo, and I
11:06 6 represent 17 intervening property owners.
11:06 7 It's quite an experience to be in a hearing
11:06 8 where there are eight intervenors, and seven are
11:06 9 environmental groups, and you're the only one
11:06 10 who represents the property owners.
11:06 11 The -- considering the proposed final order
11:06 12 that you have before you today, I've changed the
11:06 13 whole notion of my presentation, and I want to
11:07 14 speak to what appears to be an effort to
11:07 15 continue confrontation between the state and the
11:07 16 local government, rather than an effort to solve
11:07 17 a problem. I want to urge you to solve a
11:07 18 problem, instead of making it worse.
11:07 19 I have a Ph.D. in water resources science.
11:07 20 I have degrees in environmental health and
11:07 21 chemistry as well. My Ph.D. dissertation was on
11:07 22 activated carbon, a material used in advanced
11:07 23 waste treatment.
11:07 24 I spent four years on the chemical
11:07 25 oceanographic faculty at the University of
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11:07 1 Miami. I spent another five years at Nova,
11:07 2 where I specialized in marine pollution.
11:07 3 In fact, I wrote a report in 1980 entitled
11:07 4 the Role of the Oceans and a Waste Management
11:07 5 Strategy for the National Advisory Committee on
11:07 6 Oceans and Atmosphere, a presidential advisory
11:07 7 committee.
11:07 8 Before coming back to south Florida, I
11:07 9 represented the Association of Metropolitan
11:07 10 Sewage Agencies for three years before
11:07 11 Congress. I've also taught marine pollution law
11:08 12 at the University of Miami since 1983. And this
11:08 13 issue of sewage is something I know a lot
11:08 14 about.
11:08 15 I didn't think it was going to rise to the
11:08 16 level it did in the hearing officer's
11:08 17 recommended order. Because all there was in the
11:08 18 record was some evidence that we all knew about,
11:08 19 that some dead-end canals were contaminated with
11:08 20 sewage, some of the areas of the Keys with older
11:08 21 homes with cesspools were contributing a vast
11:08 22 amount of nutrients to the local canals and
11:08 23 nearshore waters.
11:08 24 We've known about it for years. The
11:08 25 Monroe County Commission has attempted to do
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11:08 1 something about it for years. For the last
11:08 2 couple of years, DCA has put a quarter of a
11:08 3 million dollars into its budget each year to
11:08 4 locate these cesspools and upgrade them to
11:08 5 working septic tanks.
11:08 6 Each year the Governor has removed that
11:08 7 quarter of a million dollars from DCA's budget.
11:08 8 Many of these inadequate facilities are in older
11:08 9 homes owned by low income families who cannot
11:08 10 afford the eight to ten thousand dollars it
11:08 11 would cost for them to upgrade.
11:08 12 Yet they could be upgraded. But we need
11:08 13 help to upgrade them. We don't need to have a
11:09 14 cut in future building from twenty homes a month
11:09 15 to eight homes a month, because we've already
11:09 16 got a rule in place that takes effect in July of
11:09 17 '96 requiring all new home construction to have
11:09 18 advanced waste treatment facilities as their
11:09 19 sewage disposal facilities.
11:09 20 So the new construction, which you're
11:09 21 proposing reducing, isn't going to contribute
11:09 22 anything to this problem. Yet you're not doing
11:09 23 a thing to solve what is a problem.
11:09 24 There hasn't been a marine environment in
11:09 25 this world that hasn't recovered from the
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11:09 1 impacts of nutrients from sewage disposal as
11:09 2 soon as that sewage disposal problem was
11:09 3 removed.
11:09 4 I give you San Diego Bay as a good
11:09 5 example. During World War II, San Diego
11:09 6 discharged all of its sewage, raw sewage, to
11:09 7 San Diego Bay. And they did it up till about
11:09 8 1960.
11:09 9 San Diego Bay was the nation's biggest
11:09 10 cesspool. By moving the discharge from
11:09 11 Point Loma, and discharging it 3 miles into the
11:10 12 ocean in very deep water, San Diego Bay
11:10 13 recovered completely in three years. There were
11:10 14 no signs of these nutrients, there were no signs
11:10 15 of the mounds of sewage after three years.
11:10 16 In the Florida Keys, if we could shut off
11:10 17 these cesspools, there'd be no signs of
11:10 18 nearshore water quality problems immediately.
11:10 19 We would see the results in a matter of 60 to
11:10 20 90 days.
11:10 21 I urge you not to enter a final order. The
11:10 22 final order will be appealed by the County, I
11:10 23 can assure you, and they'll stay the final order
11:10 24 so it won't get -- it won't go into effect.
11:10 25 If you enter the final order, we also get
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11:10 1 stuck with the hearing officer's incomplete
11:10 2 findings in his recommended order. Yes, he
11:10 3 found there was a problem.
11:10 4 Did he think of a way to solve it? No.
11:10 5 Is there a way to solve it? Yes.
11:10 6 I urge you to not enter an appealable
11:10 7 document so that this process will continue to
11:10 8 be negotiated. Don't -- don't promulgate a new
11:10 9 rule. The rule that you've got before you that
11:10 10 the staff wants you to promulgate just
11:10 11 exacerbates the litigation. Just gets everybody
11:11 12 back, you know, raring up on their hind legs
11:11 13 to -- to shout at each other.
11:11 14 Now, it's really -- that's really all I
11:11 15 have to say. We have a very, very simple
11:11 16 problem. It's been characterized as some sort
11:11 17 of god-awful thing that is destroying the coral
11:11 18 reef. The hearing officer himself found that
11:11 19 this impact of sewage nutrients has not been
11:11 20 seen on the coral reef.
11:11 21 We live in an environment in the
11:11 22 Florida Keys that is phosphate limited. That
11:11 23 is, if we put more phosphate in the water, we
11:11 24 get more growth. What we're seeing is we're
11:11 25 seeing -- we're seeing sedimentation on our
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11:11 1 sea grasses, because we're producing more
11:11 2 organisms in the shallow waters than we want
11:11 3 to.
11:11 4 If we could shut off the source of
11:11 5 phosphate, we would stop this additional
11:11 6 growth. All of the communities in the Midwest,
11:11 7 if you remember when the Great Lakes were
11:11 8 supposedly dying 25 years ago, they shut off the
11:11 9 source of phosphate. They had phosphate
11:11 10 detergents removed from the shelves of the
11:12 11 grocery stores. Monroe County has an
11:12 12 ordinance --
11:12 13 My time is up.
11:12 14 But I urge you, send this back to
11:12 15 mediation. There are technological fixes, there
11:12 16 are rules in place that are going to control
11:12 17 future development, and let's go out there and
11:12 18 solve this problem at a statewide level instead
11:12 19 of looking at down the road two-and-a-half more
11:12 20 years of litigation.
11:12 21 MS. SITTIG: The next intervenor is
11:12 22 Greg Goldfarb, representing the Florida Keys
11:12 23 Citizens Coalition.
11:12 24 MR. GOLDFARB: Good morning, Governor,
11:12 25 Cabinet.
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11:12 1 This is my first opportunity to speak
11:12 2 before you, and if I break any protocol, please
3 don't hesitate to let me know.
11:12 4 My name is Greg Goldfarb, and I represent
11:12 5 two victorious intervening parties in this
11:12 6 matter, Florida Keys Citizens Coalition, and
11:12 7 Upper Keys Citizens Association. To make
11:12 8 matters a little simpler for you, I will only be
11:13 9 speaking on behalf of Florida Keys Citizens
11:13 10 Coalition now. I will come up a few people
11:13 11 afterwards.
11:13 12 We would also support the 1000 Friends and
11:13 13 Mr. Parks' comment that this Cabinet and the
11:13 14 Governor should approve the recommended order
11:13 15 which finds as facts things that the members of
11:13 16 the -- of Florida Keys Citizens --
11:13 17 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
11:13 18 room.)
19 MR. GOLDFARB: -- Citizens Coalition have
11:13 20 known since the early '80s. And that is two
11:13 21 things: One, there is some serious
11:13 22 environmental problems in the Keys which are
11:13 23 related to land use activities; and two, that
11:13 24 there is a hurricane evacuation problem which
11:13 25 could result in a huge catastrophe.
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11:13 1 Very recently, the foremost hurricane
2 prognosticator, Lloyd Goode from the University
11:13 3 of Chicago has predicted that starting now, we
11:13 4 will now enter into what is known as a wet
11:13 5 phase. Which means that in the next 20 years,
11:13 6 he expects that Florida, south Florida, will be
11:14 7 hit with a number of hurricanes as opposed to
11:14 8 the last 30 years, which he contends we have
11:14 9 been suffering -- we have not had -- we've been
11:14 10 in a slow phase.
11:14 11 This will raise the hurricane evacuation
11:14 12 situation to a peak which needs serious redress.
11:14 13 The hearing officer found at a minimum
11:14 14 level, that 24 hours is needed to evacuate the
11:14 15 County. This only puts people to Dade County,
11:14 16 to the border of Dade County. This does not put
11:14 17 people in safety. The nearest shelter is at
11:14 18 FIU, which is approximately 40 miles from this
11:14 19 border.
11:14 20 So when you hear that it takes 30 hours to
11:14 21 evacuate out of Monroe County, that is not
11:14 22 evacuation to safety, that is evacuation out of
11:14 23 the county.
11:14 24 Florida Keys Citizens Coalition would like
11:14 25 there to be a shelter in Florida City. We think
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11:14 1 this would be one appropriate method to solve
11:14 2 some of the hurricane evacuation problems.
11:14 3 But Florida Keys Citizens Coalition at this
4 point thinks --
5 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
11:15 6 room.)
7 MR. GOLDFARB: -- there needs to be a
11:15 8 temporary moratorium based upon the
11:15 9 hearing officer's findings.
11:15 10 The hearing officer finds as fact that
11:15 11 24 hours is a minimum level. The
11:15 12 hearing officer also finds as fact that
11:15 13 currently we are at -- Monroe County is at
11:15 14 28 hours, 4 hours in excess of the minimum
11:15 15 level.
11:15 16 The National Hurricane Center says 16 hours
11:15 17 is acceptable. This means that we are
11:15 18 approximately 12 hours over what the National
11:15 19 Hurricane Center says is acceptable. We think
11:15 20 this demands a moratorium on residential units
11:15 21 until the evacuation level is improved.
11:15 22 Two things to improve it: One, put a
11:15 23 shelter in Florida City; and two is to order the
11:15 24 County to issue earlier evacuations. The
11:15 25 National Hurricane Center will issue a warning
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11:15 1 at 24 hours. The County will not order
11:15 2 evacuation at that point because of the problems
11:15 3 with hurricane forecasting.
11:15 4 The problems can be seen as such: The
11:15 5 hurricane -- National Hurricane Center says
11:15 6 Monroe County, we expect 24 hours from now,
11:15 7 you're going to be hit by a hurricane.
11:16 8 Five hours later, the hurricane shifts north,
11:16 9 Monroe County all of a sudden is out of the
11:16 10 danger zone.
11:16 11 Recently, the National Hurricane Center has
11:16 12 stated that it has improved its forecasting
11:16 13 techniques, which means when they say 24 hours
11:16 14 it's going to hit landfall, more likely it will
11:16 15 hit landfall where they predict.
11:16 16 This eliminates the County's rationale for
11:16 17 not ordering the evacuation earlier. The
11:16 18 rationale previously was, well, the National
11:16 19 Hurricane Center is not perfect with its
11:16 20 forecasting, we don't want to tell people to
11:16 21 leave and to close down their businesses because
11:16 22 of this problem.
11:16 23 We would like to see the National Hurricane
11:16 24 Center's improvements put into effect and have
11:16 25 the County early -- order earlier evacuations.
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11:16 1 Certainly, we think that the coral reefs
11:16 2 need more protection than the hearing officer
11:16 3 has given. There were a couple of findings of
11:16 4 fact which Mr. Stengle did not announce, which
11:16 5 are critical for this Cabinet and the Governor
11:16 6 to understand.
11:16 7 First finding is the marine citizen is
11:17 8 headed towards a collapse which will completely
11:17 9 and negatively change its character. Two, due
11:17 10 to the interconnection of the various nearshore
11:17 11 habitats, if one part of the system is
11:17 12 negatively impacted, the entire system will be
11:17 13 negatively -- will suffer.
11:17 14 Number three, development is responsible
11:17 15 for introducing pesticides and herbicides which
11:17 16 negatively impact the coral reefs. And that the
11:17 17 coral reefs have almost no tolerance to
11:17 18 pollutants, especially nutrients.
11:17 19 The hearing officer does not do anything to
11:17 20 remedy this, and we are asking you to remedy
11:17 21 this. This is the third largest coral reef in
11:17 22 the world. Development could be the end of the
11:17 23 coral reefs in Florida.
11:17 24 As stewards of this state, it would be your
11:17 25 obligation to assure that this protection is
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11:17 1 given.
11:17 2 And I thank you for your time.
11:17 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
11:17 4 MS. SITTIG: The next intervenor is
11:18 5 Manley Fuller, representing the Florida Wildlife
6 Federation.
11:18 7 MR. FULLER: Governor, members of the
11:18 8 Cabinet, I'm Manley Fuller, representing the
11:18 9 Florida Wildlife Federation.
11:18 10 The Florida Wildlife Federation is
11:18 11 extremely concerned that growth pressures in the
11:18 12 Florida Keys are having serious adverse impacts
11:18 13 on the waters of the Keys, sea grass beds,
11:18 14 Key deer habitat, and Keys wetlands, wildlife
11:18 15 habitat in North Key Largo, and other keys.
11:18 16 We believe the natural resources of the
11:18 17 Florida Keys cannot tolerate additional growth
11:18 18 pressures. In short, the Keys are being loved
11:18 19 to death.
11:18 20 We join with 1000 Friends of Florida, and
11:18 21 urge the Board to take the strongest possible
11:18 22 actions to address the growth issues in the
11:18 23 Florida Keys, recognizing that the
11:18 24 hearing officer has found that additional growth
11:18 25 in the Florida Keys directly threatens water
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11:18 1 quality and fish and wildlife and their
11:18 2 habitats.
11:19 3 Thank you.
11:19 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
11:19 5 MS. SITTIG: Next is Debra Harrison
11:19 6 representing the Wilderness Society.
11:19 7 MS. HARRISON: Thank you.
11:19 8 Thank you for the opportunity to address
11:19 9 you today. It's been a long-time dream of mine
11:19 10 to be able to address you.
11:19 11 And it's a pleasure to be here today.
11:19 12 On behalf of the Wilderness Society, we
11:19 13 have a -- a philosophy that's a part of our
11:19 14 strategic definition that says that we will do
11:19 15 whatever is the very best for the environment.
11:19 16 We think of ourselves as the silent voice for
11:19 17 the resources that have no voice.
11:19 18 And we applauded the recommended order and
11:19 19 the final order that was delivered by the
11:19 20 hearing officer in this case.
11:20 21 There's a recognition though that no plan
11:20 22 is any stronger than the citizenry that accepts
11:20 23 it and supports it. In the last five years, we
11:20 24 have seen tremendous changes in the way the
11:20 25 citizens of Monroe County respond to and demand
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11:20 1 protection for their resources.
11:20 2 When the Wilderness Society opened its
11:20 3 doors in 1988, it was because we saw many
11:20 4 resources of national significance being
11:20 5 destroyed by local decision makers.
11:20 6 Through public education and the
11:20 7 development of public stewardship and outreach,
11:20 8 the citizenry have demanded a different ethic,
11:20 9 and I want to applaud the kinds of decisions
11:20 10 that have been made by the Monroe County
11:20 11 commissioners who have been seated for the last
11:20 12 four to five years.
11:20 13 We have put in place in Monroe County the
11:20 14 strongest growth plan that we've seen throughout
11:20 15 the state of Florida. And we have imposed upon
11:21 16 ourselves, with much contention, the only growth
11:21 17 ordinance that restricts the rate of growth in
11:21 18 the state of Florida.
11:21 19 There is a recognition that we have very
11:21 20 valuable resources, that intrinsically and
11:21 21 because of their economic values to
11:21 22 Monroe County, need to be protected.
11:21 23 So while I -- I urge this Cabinet to adopt
11:21 24 the final order, I implore you to go forward
11:21 25 with directing a mediation process that brings
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11:21 1 all of the parties that have any kind of
11:21 2 jurisdiction on the concerns that have been
11:21 3 raised by the hearing officer in his order
11:21 4 together.
11:21 5 I sit at your direction on the Regional
11:21 6 Planning Council, on the Governor's Commission,
11:21 7 and on the Sanctuary Advisory Council. And
11:21 8 through other avenues, including the Big Pine
11:21 9 Key pool mediation, I've seen the kinds of
11:22 10 wonders that can result from a mediated process.
11:22 11 I believe that Monroe County has shown good
11:22 12 faith in trying to resolve some of the issues
11:22 13 that -- that are destroying our resources now.
11:22 14 But I also believe that there has got to be a
11:22 15 full participation by Health and Rehabilitative
11:22 16 Services, the Florida Department of
11:22 17 Environmental Protection, the South Florida
11:22 18 Water Management District, and other agencies
11:22 19 that also are involved in controlling and
11:22 20 permitting wastewater and storm water impacts in
11:22 21 the Florida Keys.
11:22 22 The hearing officer found that
11:22 23 Monroe County had known for some 20 years that
11:22 24 on-site sewage disposal systems didn't work in
11:22 25 the Florida Keys. That's true. But so did the
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11:22 1 state of Florida. We need to have that
11:22 2 partnership.
11:22 3 When we look at the problems revolving
11:22 4 around Big Pine Key, which has been my home for
11:22 5 many, many years, we know that the final
11:23 6 resolution to protection of the Key deer lies
11:23 7 with land acquisition.
11:23 8 And even though the Key deer, funded by a
11:23 9 CARL project, is listed as number 2 in the
11:23 10 state, and has been for some time, in their mega
11:23 11 multiparcel category, in 1994, we saw only one
11:23 12 lot closed, only one lot acquired.
13 We have got to bring all those hands to you
14 that have a role --
15 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
11:23 16 MS. HARRISON: -- in finding resolutions to
11:23 17 Monroe County together in a mediated forum to
11:23 18 try to define and outline and give guidance to
11:23 19 where this process needs to go.
11:23 20 Again, I urge you to adopt the final order,
11:23 21 but please mandate, bring together, all of the
11:23 22 agencies, Monroe County, the intervenors, and
11:23 23 various state agencies, in a facilitated
11:23 24 mediation to find resolution.
11:23 25 Monroe County is -- is trying to do their
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11:23 1 job, and they need a push. But they need a
11:23 2 hand, too.
11:24 3 Thank you very much.
11:24 4 MS. SITTIG: The last intervenor is the
11:24 5 Upper Keys Citizens Association, and
11:24 6 Greg Goldfarb also represents them.
11:24 7 MR. GOLDFARB: The Upper Keys Citizens
11:24 8 Association has been around for 30 years, and
11:24 9 they've been fighting these problems for
11:24 10 30 years. And finally, they got a victory.
11:24 11 I guess it's a bittersweet victory.
11:24 12 They were one of the victorious intervening
11:24 13 parties in this matter. They have a lot to --
11:24 14 they have a lot that I'd -- they'd like me to
11:24 15 bring to your attention, so I'm going to try to
11:24 16 do it quickly.
11:24 17 With regards to North Key Largo, the
11:24 18 hearing officer is going to -- has defined a
11:24 19 great many order permits for development on
11:24 20 North Key Largo.
11:24 21 Governor, as the Cabinet in 1982 passed a
11:24 22 resolution calling for the acquisition of land
11:24 23 in North Key Largo, we think this is
11:24 24 inconsistent. The hearing officer's findings
11:24 25 show that development will destroy the
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11:24 1 environmental character of North Key Largo. And
11:25 2 we think that the processing of permits in North
11:25 3 Key Largo needs to be stayed until the CARL
11:25 4 acquisition, which is -- has designated North
11:25 5 Key Largo number 1 repeatedly, is complete.
11:25 6 That's on North Key Largo.
11:25 7 One of the most important elements of a
11:25 8 land use plan is the maps. The maps designate
11:25 9 where development's going to occur, which type
11:25 10 of development, what intensities, what densities
11:25 11 the development is going to occur at, where the
11:25 12 flood zones are, where are the coastal high
11:25 13 hazard areas.
11:25 14 The hearing officer found that
11:25 15 Monroe County's plan uses 1986 maps. Data from
16 9J-5 calls for it to be relevant and
11:25 17 appropriate. This is clearly inappropriate
11:25 18 data. This is probably why I'm here speaking to
11:25 19 you right now. The County wants these maps to
11:25 20 continue.
11:25 21 It's critical that these maps be revised.
11:25 22 Part of the revision process is public
11:25 23 participation. This will allow all the property
11:26 24 owners in Monroe County to step forward and say,
11:26 25 in my neighborhood, there is too much
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11:26 1 development; in my neighborhood, there is no
11:26 2 commercial development, we need some restaurants
11:26 3 in my neighborhood, we are having overcrowding
11:26 4 in our schools. This is critical, this needs to
11:26 5 be done.
11:26 6 Part of the future land use map will show
11:26 7 the area designated as the coastal high hazard
11:26 8 area. Monroe County's Comprehensive Plan
11:26 9 decided --
11:26 10 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
11:26 11 MR. GOLDFARB: -- to go against the law.
11:26 12 The law said, you designate the area as coastal
11:26 13 high hazard area, as the area which history
11:26 14 shows to be the coastal high hazard areas.
11:26 15 The County decided, we are going to
11:26 16 designate it based upon the weakest storm. Even
11:26 17 though there have been 40 hurricanes that have
11:26 18 hit Monroe County in the last 100 years. And a
11:26 19 number of them, including the 1935 hurricane,
11:26 20 have been some of the most severe and
11:26 21 destructive hurricanes, causing hundreds of
11:26 22 peoples' lives, and thousands and thousands of
11:26 23 dollars in property damage.
11:26 24 The critical aspect of coastal high hazard
25 area is that 9J-5 calls for you to direct
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11:26 1 development away from the coastal high hazard
11:26 2 area. If you put in -- if you allow residential
11:27 3 units or -- in the coastal high hazard area,
4 then the state and the county has got to
11:27 5 contribute money to public infrastructure to
11:27 6 support that. That money will probably be
11:27 7 wasted.
11:27 8 When hurricanes hit, they destroy
11:27 9 buildings. And we think that the coastal high
11:27 10 hazard area can be properly designated in
11:27 11 accordance with the law. It clearly violates
11:27 12 the law in this matter.
11:27 13 I would like to thank a number of people
11:27 14 here. I think -- this is my first experience
11:27 15 here. Truly, this is government at its best.
11:27 16 Greg Smith, the governor's attorney, was in
11:27 17 the office Saturday speaking with me at length;
18 Barbara Leighty; Teresa Tinker; the Cabinet
11:27 19 aides allowed us to communicate our position.
11:27 20 And as intervenors, that's a rare, rare
11:27 21 experience.
11:27 22 These intervenors know what they're talking
11:27 23 about, they've been here, they've fought these
11:27 24 battles long before the County representatives
11:27 25 that are here today, and they will be fighting
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11:27 1 these battles long after they are gone.
11:27 2 We think that action needs to be taken
11:28 3 right now. Policy 5 talks about funding. And
11:28 4 basically, it states that if there's no funding
11:28 5 available from the state, the federal, the
11:28 6 county government, that the County doesn't have
11:28 7 to go forward implementing their plan.
11:28 8 We would like policy 5 to contain one other
11:28 9 provision, that in the event there is no
11:28 10 funding, that the processing of permits is
11:28 11 stopped until the funding is found to develop
11:28 12 the -- the remedial actions that you and any
11:28 13 appellate court calls for.
11:28 14 Lastly, I would like to thank the person
11:28 15 for bringing me into this huge mess,
16 Rich Grosso, who deserves a lot of accolade for
11:28 17 his efforts.
11:28 18 Thank you.
11:28 19 MS. SITTIG: We have eight remaining
11:28 20 speakers who have each been given one minute to
21 speak. The first one is Mike Morell
11:29 22 representing Big Pine Key Joint Venture.
11:29 23 MR. MORELL: Good morning, ladies and
11:29 24 gentlemen of the Commission.
25 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
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11:29 1 MR. MORELL: My name is Mike Morell, and
11:29 2 I'm an attorney who has the pleasure of
11:29 3 representing Big Pine Key Joint Venture in this
11:29 4 matter before you today.
11:29 5 Before the meeting, I was informed by the
11:29 6 staff of the Commission that I would have
11:29 7 5 minutes. I don't think I quite have
11:29 8 5 minutes. But I believe I have more than
11:29 9 1 minute.
11:29 10 And if it would please the Commission, I
11:29 11 would attempt to conclude my comments in about
11:29 12 4 minutes.
11:29 13 Would that be okay?
11:29 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Were you an intervenor?
11:29 15 MR. MORELL: I -- we filed a petition to
11:29 16 intervene. It was an extraordinary petition in
11:29 17 cases like this. We want to explain to you the
11:29 18 nature of our --
11:29 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, please, you know,
11:29 20 we have an awful lot --
21 MR. MORELL: Thank you, Governor.
11:29 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- before us today.
11:29 23 MR. MORELL: Thank you. I realize. I
11:29 24 appreciate the indulgence.
25 My client, the Big Pine Key Joint Venture,
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11:29 1 is the owner and operator of a business and
11:29 2 owner of a commercial parcel of property known
11:29 3 as the Mariner's Resort, which is located on
11:29 4 Big Pine Key. The Mariner's Resort has been in
11:29 5 existence for more than three decades.
11:29 6 The property currently consists of
11:30 7 26 existing guest rooms, two employee --
8 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
11:30 9 MR. MORELL: -- employee housing units, an
11:30 10 accessory unit which includes an office, a
11:30 11 restaurant, a marina, bait and tackle shop,
11:30 12 tennis, and other amenities.
11:30 13 My client, the joint venturer, acquired the
11:30 14 Mariner's Resort to renovate and expand the
11:30 15 resort's existing facility. We have expended in
11:30 16 excess of 3.3 million dollars in good faith
11:30 17 reliance on the ability to conclude renovating
11:30 18 of the existing resort facilities and the
11:30 19 construction of the new facilities.
11:30 20 My client did not intervene as a party to
11:30 21 the plan challenge cases before the Division of
11:30 22 Administrative Hearings, because at that time,
11:30 23 my client was unaware of its substantial
11:30 24 objections to the manner in which the plan would
11:30 25 be reviewed by the hearing officer, or to the
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11:30 1 DCA's recommended remedial actions which were
11:30 2 issued on December 1st.
11:30 3 Only after the joint venturer became aware
11:30 4 of the new and very materially different
11:30 5 standard for plan review and compliance
11:30 6 determinations included in the hearing officer's
11:31 7 recommended order, which was released over
11:31 8 two years after the deadline for parties to have
9 intervened in the original plan review planning
11:31 10 cases, only then did my client become aware of
11:31 11 the substantial negative impact which both new
11:31 12 plan review standards and the Department's
11:31 13 recommendations to the Commission would have
11:31 14 upon its interests.
11:31 15 We are requesting today that you not adopt
11:31 16 the recommended order. We are also requesting
11:31 17 that you not approve for partial filing the
11:31 18 portions of the rule which -- that were not
11:31 19 rejected.
11:31 20 Instead, we are asking you to remand the
11:31 21 matter back to the Division of Administrative
11:31 22 Hearings for an evidentiary hearing on disputed
11:31 23 issues of fact, including those alleged in our
11:31 24 petition.
11:31 25 We believe for you to pass the final order
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11:31 1 would conflict with fundamental principles of
11:31 2 public participation, due process of law, and
11:31 3 planning embodying numerous planning decisions
11:31 4 previously announced by this Commission.
11:31 5 The policy behind the public participation
11:32 6 requirement in Florida's Growth Management Act
11:32 7 places the highest value on protection of rights
11:32 8 of all Floridians, not just a few, through
11:32 9 procedures that are fair and allow the citizen
11:32 10 to influence the adoption of the
11:32 11 Comprehensive Plan.
11:32 12 And as this Administration Commission has
11:32 13 ruled and -- consistently in both management
11:32 14 cases since the very first, citizens'
11:32 15 participation in fair procedures under our
11:32 16 state's planning laws are essential safeguards
11:32 17 in the decision making process.
11:32 18 Why are procedural safeguards, including
11:32 19 citizen participation, important? Well, as our
11:32 20 Supreme Court says, experience teaches us that
11:32 21 the affording of procedural safeguards which by
11:32 22 their nature attempt to illuminate the
11:32 23 underlying fact, in itself operates to prevent
11:32 24 erroneous decisions on the merits from
11:32 25 occurring.
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11:32 1 The problem that we have with the
11:32 2 hearing officer's order that you are being asked
11:32 3 to finalize today is that only some affected
11:32 4 citizens and groups have been given the
11:32 5 opportunity to illuminate those facts which they
11:32 6 feel are important for you and the
11:32 7 hearing officer to have considered.
11:33 8 Other affected citizens and groups,
11:33 9 including my client, have not been given the
11:33 10 opportunity to illuminate those underlying facts
11:33 11 that they believe are important.
11:33 12 Why were they not given that opportunity?
11:33 13 Because we did not know that the 1000 Friends of
11:33 14 Florida was going to be given the opportunity to
11:33 15 supplement the record.
11:33 16 We would encourage you to remand the order
11:33 17 to the hearing officer. We believe there are
11:33 18 grounds for our client to participate, even if
11:33 19 you rule against the client having had standing
11:33 20 because the record reflects that the
11:33 21 hearing officer admitted the testimony of other
11:33 22 affected citizens at the hearing who did not
11:33 23 have standing.
11:33 24 We thank you very much.
11:33 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
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11:33 1 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is Captain
11:33 2 Ed Davidson, Florida Audubon Society.
11:33 3 MR. DAVIDSON: For the record, I'm Captain
11:33 4 Ed Davidson, Chairman of the Board of Florida
11:33 5 Audubon. But I'm going to speak as a resident
11:34 6 for 27 years of the Florida Keys. This is my
11:34 7 second trip here in a week. It's an expensive
11:34 8 sound bite, but here we go.
11:34 9 I was chairman of the zoning board when it
11:34 10 was reconstituted out of critical concern. And
11:34 11 I thought 20 years ago that we'd saved the
11:34 12 Florida Keys. Since then, I've thought DCA was
11:34 13 going to save us, that the Legislature would
11:34 14 save us, the Governor and Cabinet would save us,
11:34 15 EPA, Fish and Wildlife.
11:34 16 Guess what? Nobody's saved us. We're
11:34 17 still here. This is my 32nd Cabinet appearance
11:34 18 on these same issues. And it's time to bite the
11:34 19 bullet.
11:34 20 The hearing officer's findings are
11:34 21 compelling. I can tell you as a participant in
11:34 22 all of the other processes in south Florida that
11:34 23 the science is much more compelling now than it
11:34 24 was then.
11:34 25 I'm in the fishing, diving, glass bottom
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11:34 1 boat industry in the Florida Keys. The
11:34 2 environment's gone to hell in a hand basket,
11:34 3 business is bad. The word is out about our
11:34 4 water quality problems.
5 And the point about home rule, frankly,
11:34 6 isn't as compelling in the Keys as it is the
11:34 7 landlocked counties in the state where you
11:34 8 actually have jurisdiction over the resources.
11:35 9 We are surrounded by and literally flushing
11:35 10 our toilets into resources that don't belong to
11:35 11 us, that belong to your constituents, the
11:35 12 citizens of the state of Florida; and in part,
11:35 13 to the grandchildren of America. These are not
11:35 14 the possession of people who live in the Keys or
11:35 15 the politicians in the Florida Keys, quite
11:35 16 frankly.
11:35 17 It's time to bite the bullet. After
11:35 18 22 years of sliding and letting the clock run,
11:35 19 which is what we love to do in Monroe County, we
11:35 20 need a temporary moratorium to get the attention
11:35 21 of affected parties and voter rulemaking.
11:35 22 Thank you very much.
11:35 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
11:35 24 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is
11:35 25 Clay Henderson with Florida Audubon Society.
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11:35 1 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Governor,
11:35 2 members of the Cabinet. On behalf of the
11:35 3 Florida Audubon Society, we appreciate this
11:35 4 opportunity.
11:35 5 The Audubon Society for 100 years has been
11:35 6 involved in Keys issues, and operates one of the
11:35 7 real substantive environmental restoration
11:36 8 programs there. We deal with the issue every
11:36 9 day, and know that even on state lands, there's
11:36 10 a need for the continuing and immediate type of
11:36 11 remedial work.
11:36 12 This is a historic hearing officer's
11:36 13 decision that is before you. It is historic
11:36 14 because it gives you the opportunity to fulfill
11:36 15 the mandate and to restore and protect the
11:36 16 natural resources of the state, which are state
11:36 17 resources, and not just resources of the
11:36 18 Florida Keys.
11:36 19 It is clear that we are in a situation
11:36 20 where we need to take immediate action and
11:36 21 remedial action. And, in fact, in this
11:36 22 historical order, we -- we note that the
11:36 23 carrying capacity of the Florida Keys has been
11:36 24 exceeded.
11:36 25 The Florida Keys is a single ecosystem, and
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11:36 1 we should not move forward with development
11:36 2 until such time as remedial action can be put in
11:36 3 place.
11:36 4 Our position is to support the
11:36 5 environmental community of this state is we
11:36 6 support the position of 1000 Friends of Florida,
11:36 7 immediate action is required, emergency
11:36 8 rulemaking needs to be initiated to move forward
11:37 9 to implement the hearing officer's decision.
11:37 10 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is
11:37 11 Charles Causey, with the Florida Keys
11:37 12 Environmental Fund.
11:37 13 MR. CAUSEY: Governor, members of the
11:37 14 Cabinet, my name is Charles Causey. I'm a
11:37 15 retired businessman living in Islamorada for the
11:37 16 past 15 years.
11:37 17 I'm a past Board member of the South
11:37 18 Florida Water Management District. I'm
11:37 19 currently a member of the Florida Keys National
11:37 20 Marine Sanctuary Steering Committee. And I'm
11:37 21 also president of the Florida Keys Environmental
11:37 22 Fund, a nonprofit.
11:37 23 The hearing officer's Monroe County Land
11:37 24 Use Plan is confirmed by his recommended order,
11:37 25 that growth management in an area of critical
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11:37 1 State concern designation has failed to protect
11:37 2 the natural systems of the Florida Keys.
11:37 3 Evidence, scientific and otherwise,
4 convince Larry Sartin that the Keys are on the
11:37 5 brink of ecological collapse.
11:37 6 When will the message become clear? Do we
11:37 7 need more court cases, more delays while the
11:38 8 Keys' natural systems deteriorate. I certainly
11:38 9 hope not.
11:38 10 What we need, we need you seven people to
11:38 11 say that this is enough. We need no further
11:38 12 negotiations on a battle already decisively won
13 by Larry Sartin. We need to approve
14 Mr. Sartin's recommended order and call for
11:38 15 emergency moratorium on both the residential and
11:38 16 commercial development permitting.
11:38 17 I believe that would be -- this would not
11:38 18 only be politically correct, as well as a brave
11:38 19 decision, but it also would signify Florida's
11:38 20 willingness to deal with her future with
11:38 21 foresight and maturity.
11:38 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
11:38 23 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is
11:38 24 Brian Schmitt, representing the community
11:38 25 interests.
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11:38 1 MR. SCHMITT: Governor, Cabinet, my name is
11:38 2 Brian Schmitt. I'm a lifelong resident of the
11:38 3 Florida Keys. I'm a past president of the
11:38 4 Marathon Chamber of Commerce, President of
11:38 5 Florida Keys Land and Sea Trust.
11:39 6 I'm also the broker of the oldest and
11:39 7 largest real estate firm in the Keys, and a
11:39 8 director for First National Bank of the
11:39 9 Florida Keys.
11:39 10 I have watched and participated over the
11:39 11 years as --
12 (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
11:39 13 MR. SCHMITT: -- development and
14 environmental factions battled, each entrenched
11:39 15 in their respective positions, over everything
11:39 16 from schools to roads and docks to future land
11:39 17 uses and major developments.
11:39 18 In this extremely polarized climate, who
11:39 19 would have imagined that the same factions could
11:39 20 have joined together, with government, to forge
11:39 21 a land use plan which models residential and
11:39 22 commercial development controls with a reduction
11:39 23 in -- in growth to a quarter of historical
11:39 24 levels. Such a partnership of business,
11:39 25 government, and environmental is unprecedented
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11:39 1 in Monroe County.
11:39 2 I was appointed by Governor Chiles to the
11:39 3 Florida Keys Resource Planning and Management
11:39 4 Committee and to the Water Quality
11:39 5 Subcommittee. Our recommendations on sewage
11:39 6 treatment were sent to you in 1992, and have
11:39 7 almost all been enacted on by Monroe County.
11:40 8 Now interests who don't have the historical
11:40 9 perspective tell you that the solution to our
11:40 10 water quality problem is to further reduce
11:40 11 development potential.
11:40 12 For instance, in the middle Keys where I
11:40 13 reside, the proposal before you is to reduce the
11:40 14 number of residential permits from three per
11:40 15 month to less than one per month. That's less
11:40 16 than one home per month over a 30-mile stretch
11:40 17 of the Keys.
11:40 18 To impose this arbitrary reduction in our
11:40 19 consensus driven growth and mang-- land use plan
11:40 20 would violate the spirit of partnership that our
11:40 21 community has worked so hard to achieve.
11:40 22 I urge you to let us, the citizens and
11:40 23 government of Monroe County, to complete this
11:40 24 process. Do not break trust with the people of
11:40 25 Monroe County.
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11:40 1 Thank you.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
11:40 3 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is
11:40 4 James Mattson, representing Ocean Reef.
11:40 5 MR. MATTSON: This is just a brief
11:40 6 reappearance on behalf of one particular
11:40 7 community in the Florida Keys.
11:40 8 The Ocean Reef Club at the north end of
11:41 9 Key Largo has been exempt from the hurricane
11:41 10 evacuation related Rate of Growth Ordinance
11:41 11 since the beginning of it, because Ocean Reef
11:41 12 Club has a short access route across the
13 Car Sound Bridge to Dade County, and does not
11:41 14 contribute to the hurricane evacuation time
11:41 15 problem in Monroe County.
11:41 16 Ocean Reef Club urges me to mention to you
11:41 17 that should you adopt this rule, which is part
11:41 18 of your package before you, that it would
11:41 19 apparently penalize them for a problem that they
11:41 20 don't contribute to, which is the hurricane
11:41 21 evacuations, which is how you calculate the 88.
11:41 22 And they wanted me to bring to your
11:41 23 attention that they also are on a sewage
11:41 24 treatment plan, which they have just improved
11:41 25 and are upgrading as we speak.
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11:41 1 All future development at Ocean Reef Club
11:41 2 will also go on to their sewage treatment
11:41 3 plant. It's being upgraded and up sized to
11:41 4 handle the remaining development at that club.
11:41 5 Furthermore, the Club was an intervenor in
11:41 6 this process, but it pulled out when the County
11:41 7 and DCA offered to develop a development
11:42 8 agreement with Ocean Reef Club. That has been
11:42 9 done, all of the future growth of Ocean Reef is
11:42 10 now on paper. It's been approved by the Board
11:42 11 of County Commissioners in Monroe County, and
11:42 12 apparently approved by the Department of
11:42 13 Community Affairs.
11:42 14 So the club would urge you to --
11:42 15 (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
16 MR. MATTSON: -- to revise your proposed
11:42 17 rule so that it would not affect the communities
11:42 18 which are exempt from the hurricane evacuation
19 based Rate of Growth Ordinance.
11:42 20 Thank you.
11:42 21 MS. SITTIG: The next speaker is
11:42 22 Dr. John DeGrove, 1000 Friends of Florida.
11:42 23 DR. DeGROVE: Could we have Earl go first?
24 MS. SITTIG: Uh-hum.
11:42 25 This is Dr. Earl Starnes, 1000 Friends of
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11:42 1 Florida.
11:42 2 DR. STARNES: Thank you, ma'am.
11:42 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's not the old
11:42 4 Earl Starnes I used to know, is it?
11:42 5 DR. STARNES: Yes, sir. It is, Governor.
11:42 6 And, Governor, good to see you today.
11:42 7 Members of the Commission.
11:43 8 I am Earl Starnes, Professor Emeritus,
11:43 9 University of Florida. I was director of the
11:43 10 regional state planning during the 1970s. And
11:43 11 I'm a founding Board member of 1000 Friends of
11:43 12 Florida.
11:43 13 I'm here today to support the
11:43 14 hearing officer's order, which agrees with
11:43 15 virtually every position 1000 Friends of Florida
11:43 16 has taken and supported by dozens of reports
11:43 17 over the many, many years being involved in this
11:43 18 case.
11:43 19 A bit of history. The Florida Keys has
11:43 20 long been the focus of state interest. The --
11:43 21 based upon recommendations by the Division of
11:43 22 State Planning in 1975, the Governor and Cabinet
11:43 23 met in the Florida Keys and precedent setting
11:43 24 needs -- a meeting away from Tallahassee in
11:43 25 those days was quite a precedent -- and
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11:43 1 ultimately declared the Florida Keys an area of
11:43 2 critical state concern.
11:43 3 And why did we recommend that?
11:43 4 Rachel Carson riding in the edge of the sea
11:43 5 observed: The world of the Keys has no
11:44 6 counterpart elsewhere in the United States, and,
11:44 7 indeed, few coasts of earth are like it.
11:44 8 What we finally recommended was that in the
11:44 9 Florida Keys, as a national and state resource,
11:44 10 it is rapidly deteriorating because of an
11:44 11 imbalance of concern for the interaction between
11:44 12 its environmental, urban, and economic systems.
11:44 13 I feel those things have not changed very
11:44 14 much over the years. And I'm not sure how many
11:44 15 more years we have before I can reappear here in
11:44 16 another 20 years to talk about the Florida Keys.
11:44 17 Thank you.
11:44 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
11:44 19 DR. DeGROVE: Governor, members of the
11:44 20 Cabinet --
11:44 21 GOVERNOR CHILES: John, I'm glad to see
11:44 22 you.
11:44 23 DR. DeGROVE: Thank you, sir.
11:44 24 Those who know me, you may not believe
11:44 25 this, but I intend to be brief.
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11:44 1 These --
11:44 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: I love that John.
3 Go ahead.
11:45 4 DR. DeGROVE: I just want to say a few
11:45 5 things, and leave a minute for Richard Grosso,
11:45 6 1000 Friends of Florida, attorney, to say a few
11:45 7 things.
11:45 8 Look, we've been at this a long time. This
11:45 9 hearing officer's order is definitive, it's
11:45 10 detailed, and it's conclusive. And it ought to
11:45 11 be implemented to the maximum extent possible,
11:45 12 which is essentially what's being recommended to
11:45 13 you by your staff.
11:45 14 Now, does that mean that we should stop
11:45 15 negotiating in good faith with Monroe County to
11:45 16 try to settle out some things that are still at
11:45 17 issue? It does not.
11:45 18 For instance, advanced wastewater
11:45 19 treatment, even if we can get it in place
11:45 20 everywhere in the Keys, and there are questions
11:45 21 about how to do that, we've got pollution
11:45 22 problems in those waters down there that we
11:45 23 need -- might have to find something beyond
11:45 24 AWT.
11:45 25 And there are other reasons, too, for --
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11:45 1 for taking a time-out for further development
11:45 2 until we can figure out how to do some things in
3 North Key Largo, Coupon Bight, Ohio Key, the
11:46 4 Key deer areas that can't accommodate, according
11:46 5 to the hearing officer's findings, any
11:46 6 additional development if they are to be
11:46 7 protected.
11:46 8 Now, I yield to nobody in my admiration for
11:46 9 Jack London. He's a good man, and I think he
11:46 10 has taken a leadership role in trying to get
11:46 11 things moving in the right direction. I think
11:46 12 comparatively speaking they are.
11:46 13 But, you know, the time -- the time has
11:46 14 come for some short-term pain for long-term gain
11:46 15 in the Keys. We need to adopt this order as
11:46 16 it's being recom-- essentially as it's being
11:46 17 recommended to you. But also we need to
11:46 18 continue to find ways of helping Monroe County
11:46 19 implement.
20 I -- in 1986, we cooked up with Hugh Morgan
11:46 21 and others from the Keys, 11 million bucks extra
11:46 22 for Monroe County. The year before -- when I
11:46 23 was secretary, we got enough money to do the
11:46 24 Comprehensive Plan that resulted in the '86
11:47 25 plan. Now, those are largely state dollars --
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11:47 1 or a lot of them were state dollars.
11:47 2 But we need to continue to do that.
11:47 3 There's opportunities to put a toll on the road
11:47 4 down there, and use it for land acquisition, I
11:47 5 do believe I heard that that might be done.
11:47 6 And -- so we need to do -- the State has to
11:47 7 step up to the table, but so does the County,
11:47 8 financially and otherwise.
11:47 9 So I urge you to -- to heed a very
11:47 10 comprehensive 600 page, in fact,
11:47 11 hearing officer's order that -- that is -- is a
11:47 12 defining moment in the history of the Keys.
11:47 13 I've left a couple of minutes for
11:47 14 Richard Grosso.
11:47 15 MR. GROSSO: Good morning, I'm
11:47 16 Richard Grosso. And I'm the Legal Director for
11:47 17 1000 Friends of Florida. I just wanted to
11:47 18 address a couple of -- some legal issues that
11:48 19 have been raised to you.
11:48 20 You're being asked to do nothing other than
11:48 21 what you typically do when a case comes to you
11:48 22 in this posture. A recommended order comes to
11:48 23 you, the findings of fact, then you enter a
11:48 24 final order which establishes remedial actions
11:48 25 based on those findings of fact.
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11:48 1 In almost no cases does the hearing officer
11:48 2 write the word for word changes for you. So
11:48 3 that's what your staff is recommending to you,
11:48 4 that's the normal process. You're being asked
11:48 5 to do nothing any different in this case than is
11:48 6 done typically.
11:48 7 Your staff appropriately recommends to you
11:48 8 that you adopt the bulk of the findings of
11:48 9 fact. And we think it's pretty clear that those
11:48 10 findings of fact have resolved some issues that
11:48 11 have been factually disputed for a long time.
11:48 12 They resolved those issues.
11:48 13 We know what the facts are. We know how
11:48 14 bad things are. We know from the hearing
11:48 15 officer's findings that you make those -- you
11:48 16 reverse those declines, you have to take some
11:48 17 pretty straight -- and swift and strong action.
11:48 18 Now, if you do that for a two- or
11:48 19 three-year period until the changes are in, and
11:48 20 I must tell you that wastewater is not the only
11:49 21 issue. The hearing officer found that there are
11:49 22 deep cuts in the ecosystem of the Keys, the
11:49 23 wetlands, the hammock systems, the nearshore
11:49 24 waters that put the fishes out on the reef are
11:49 25 in serious trouble.
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11:49 1 All of that works together, and you cannot
11:49 2 isolate just the wastewater issue and say, if we
11:49 3 might do the AWT standards next year, everything
11:49 4 is okay, because we have serious problems in how
11:49 5 the County evaluates habitat types, how it
11:49 6 evaluates development proposals.
11:49 7 There are very specific fixes that the
11:49 8 hearing officer said need to be made. And so
11:49 9 when those things are done, those things are on
11:49 10 the ground and in place, the infrastructure is
11:49 11 in place, fully resolved all the factual issues,
11:49 12 not just the isolated wastewater issues, then we
11:49 13 can resume a reasonable rate of growth based on
11:49 14 these findings of fact.
11:49 15 That's why it's our position that we ask
11:49 16 you to move as quickly as you can to halt the
11:49 17 development process while we put the changes in
11:49 18 place.
11:49 19 Thank you very much.
11:49 20 MS. SITTIG: The last speaker is
11:49 21 Nancy Regalado with the National Audubon
11:49 22 Society.
11:50 23 And then the County will wrap up with their
11:50 24 final 5 minutes.
11:50 25 MS. REGALADO: Good afternoon. I will --
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11:50 1 it's a challenge, I'll be briefer than my former
11:50 2 boss, John DeGrove.
11:50 3 The National Audubon Society is
11:50 4 committing -- committed to protecting birds,
11:50 5 wildlife in their habitat. While the Audubon --
11:50 6 while Audubon places great emphasis on
11:50 7 environmental issues of national significance,
11:50 8 it also recognizes that many of the most
11:50 9 important decisions affecting our nation's most
11:50 10 threatened ecosystems occur at the state and
11:50 11 local level.
11:50 12 For this reason, the National Audubon
11:50 13 Society is greatly concerned about the decision
11:50 14 you will make today regarding Monroe County's
11:50 15 Comprehensive Growth Management Plan. The
11:50 16 actions you take regarding the comp plan will
11:50 17 have far-reaching impacts.
11:50 18 In Monroe County, natural resource
11:50 19 protection is a matter of human survival. If
11:50 20 the Keys in Florida Bay are to remain healthy
11:50 21 and viable, no further degradation of the
11:50 22 natural environment can be allowed.
11:50 23 We strongly urge you to adopt the tradition
11:50 24 of 1000 Friends of Florida. We urge you to
11:51 25 adopt the hearing officer's final order, and
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11:51 1 begin rulemaking proceedings immediately. We
11:51 2 also urge you to place a temporary moratorium on
11:51 3 the issuance of all development permits until
11:51 4 solutions to contested portions of the plan are
11:51 5 developed and implemented.
11:51 6 Thank you.
11:51 7 MS. SITTIG: And lastly is the
11:51 8 County Attorney, Jim Hendrick, from
11:51 9 Monroe County.
11:51 10 MR. HENDRICK: Governor Chiles, members of
11:51 11 the Cabinet, the last four years I've had the
11:51 12 honor of defending the County and its
11:51 13 Comprehensive Plan and our Rate of Growth
11:51 14 Ordinance in the courts.
11:51 15 And I've had the pleasure of fighting
11:51 16 Mr. Mattson on many of those.
11:51 17 I can tell you, although I make my living
11:51 18 with litigation, it's not the answer. It
11:51 19 couldn't have been said more eloquently by
11:51 20 Debra Harrison of the Wilderness Society when
11:51 21 she said that, go forward with mediation,
11:52 22 because no plan will work without the support of
11:52 23 the local citizenry.
11:52 24 And I have to tell you that there are
11:52 25 folks, as Commissioner London told you, in the
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11:52 1 Keys that told us that we've been fools telling
11:52 2 them that we should work cooperatively under
3 Chapter 163 and 380 to develop a Land Use Plan
11:52 4 and a Rate of Growth Ordinance.
11:52 5 They told us that everything would be
11:52 6 imposed by Tallahassee. I don't believe that
11:52 7 you as Governor and members of the Cabinet will
11:52 8 do that, that you'll give us the chance to work
11:52 9 cooperatively together.
11:52 10 Now, I can't disagree with Bob Parks, my
11:52 11 friend, who tells you, do it now. But what is
11:52 12 it that the hearing officer is telling you to do
11:52 13 now? He said there's a problem with nearshore
11:52 14 water quality, but didn't lead us in the
11:52 15 direction.
11:52 16 Let me tell you what the County has come up
11:52 17 with. Bob Herman, who's our growth management
11:52 18 director, is a very practical guy, came up with
11:52 19 a solution. And that solution is what we want
11:52 20 to work out over the next 90 days.
11:52 21 DCA is very interested in our plan. It's a
11:53 22 very simple one. It doesn't tackle the problem
11:53 23 indirectly, it tackles it directly.
11:53 24 The problem is nearshore water pollution.
11:53 25 Reducing growth from 20 units a month to 1-- by
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11:53 1 13 units is not going to solve the problem. We
11:53 2 have a problem of pollution.
11:53 3 How do we tackle it? Bob Herman's plan
11:53 4 is: Go to the major sources of pollution, the
11:53 5 big treatment plants, and put advanced
11:53 6 wastewater treatment on them now. We believe
11:53 7 that works. It immediately reduces water
11:53 8 pollution.
11:53 9 It doesn't deal with the 20 or so families
11:53 10 who hope to make their home in the Keys next
11:53 11 year. That's not the answer.
11:53 12 Those are -- those who urge you to have a
11:53 13 moratorium should be focusing on the large
11:53 14 sources of pollution, not the little guy. It's
11:53 15 very easy to make a symbolic gesture. But I'd
11:53 16 ask you to give us 90 days, the mediation route,
11:53 17 to work out a real solution.
11:53 18 Doesn't it make sense if your problem's
11:53 19 pollution, to deal with pollution? Or does it
11:53 20 make sense in a county that's 110 miles long to
11:54 21 reduce building by 13 units a month?
11:54 22 Which choice would you take? We would ask
11:54 23 you for the mediation route.
11:54 24 Now, I appreciate Dr. DeGrove's kind words
25 about my partner, Hugh Morgan, and how he,
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11:54 1 together with Dr. DeGrove and many others,
11:54 2 worked for land acquisition in the Keys several
11:54 3 years ago. But, as has been pointed out to you,
11:54 4 we have a problem. We've run out of, not money,
11:54 5 but an effort to acquire those lands.
11:54 6 In the last two years, six lots have been
11:54 7 acquired through the CARL funds on Big Pine
11:54 8 Key. If we're going to preserve the Key deer,
11:54 9 further regulation is not the answer, it's
11:54 10 acquisition.
11 Mark Rosch from our county land authority
11:54 12 is here. He has the staff and the personnel to
11:54 13 work with DEP to acquire those lots. He's dying
11:54 14 to spend the money, buy the lots, and preserve
11:54 15 the deer. But it's got caught up in an
11:54 16 underfunded or understaffed DEP effort.
11:54 17 Direct your staff to work with our land
11:54 18 authority. We're serious about this.
11:54 19 Commissioner London and the others who work with
11:54 20 us, who hired us as county attorney, who
11:55 21 directed us to go forward and vigorously adopt
11:55 22 and defend the ROGO, our Rate of Growth
11:55 23 Ordinance, are serious about doing something.
11:55 24 But give us a chance to work.
11:55 25 You know, it's unheard of for the
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11:55 1 Wilderness Society and Jim Mattson to agree on
11:55 2 anything. That's the first time I think that's
11:55 3 ever happened.
11:55 4 And they both tell you, mediation is the
11:55 5 answer. Not an imposed solution; or worse,
11:55 6 litigation. I make my living litigating. But I
11:55 7 can tell you that rulemaking is nothing but an
11:55 8 invitation for more fighting.
11:55 9 Ninety days of mediation to produce a real
11:55 10 solution, a real reduction in impacts is the way
11:55 11 to go, we would urge you.
11:55 12 So what we would ask you to do is to strike
11:55 13 the language on page 55 of your recommended
11:55 14 order directing immediate rule publication, and
11:55 15 restore the 90-day mediation period to allow us
11:55 16 an opportunity to reach a consensus decision on
11:55 17 the best remedial actions to accomplish these
11:55 18 goals.
11:55 19 Thank you very much.
11:56 20 MS. SITTIG: That concludes the speakers.
11:56 21 I'd be glad to read the recommendation
11:56 22 again if you'd like me to.
11:56 23 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
11:56 24 MS. SITTIG: We recommend authorizing the
11:56 25 Secretary to enter the amended draft final
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11:56 1 order; approve and adopt rule 28, dash, 20.100
11:56 2 of the Florida Administrative Code; and approve
11:56 3 and adopt rule 28, dash, 20.025 of the Florida
11:56 4 Administrative Code.
11:56 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let me -- Dan, come up
11:56 6 here a minute. Let's see if anybody has any
11:56 7 questions.
11:56 8 Question.
11:56 9 TREASURER NELSON: Yes, sir.
11:56 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Go ahead.
11:56 11 TREASURER NELSON: I just want to make sure
11:56 12 of the parliamentary procedure that we're in
11:56 13 here.
11:56 14 We have before us your recommendation,
11:56 15 which is the staff recommendation of the
11:56 16 Administration Commission. And how does that
11:56 17 differ from the hearing officer's final
11:56 18 recommended order?
11:57 19 MR. STENGLE: It does not. It does not.
11:57 20 TREASURER NELSON: It's one and the same?
11:57 21 MR. STENGLE: It is one and the same.
11:57 22 There are a number of approaches, Commissioner,
11:57 23 that could have been taken to carry out the
11:57 24 recommended order.
11:57 25 But the final order of the Commission that
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11:57 1 you have before you, to implement the staff
11:57 2 recommendation of the Administration Commission,
11:57 3 would adopt the recommended order of the
11:57 4 hearing officer as the final order of the
11:57 5 Commission.
11:57 6 As -- as I told you before, the recommended
11:57 7 order was unspecific insofar as its -- the
11:57 8 number of options that the Administration
11:57 9 Commission has before it to fulfill the terms of
11:57 10 the recommended order.
11:57 11 And before you on the staff recommendation
11:57 12 is one of those innumerable options necessary to
11:57 13 meet the bottom line of the recommendation. It
11:57 14 does not in any way depart from any of the
11:57 15 essential requirements of the recommended order.
11:57 16 TREASURER NELSON: Under your recommended
11:58 17 order, how many yearly permits will be allowed?
11:58 18 MR. STENGLE: It would be 88. And that
11:58 19 will go through the rulemaking process. That's
11:58 20 down from a current 255 per year.
11:58 21 TREASURER NELSON: Isn't that at variance
11:58 22 with the Administrative Hearing judge's
11:58 23 recommended order?
11:58 24 MR. STENGLE: No, sir. Because the --
11:58 25 what -- what the bottom line that was specified
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11:58 1 is that hurricane evacuation times not exceed
11:58 2 24 hours. That brings it within the allowable
11:58 3 limit without exceeding, according to the
11:58 4 calculation in the final order.
11:58 5 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
11:58 6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor --
11:58 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
11:58 8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- I'd kind of
11:58 9 follow that same line.
11:58 10 I'm interested in the -- one of the
11:58 11 speakers referred to some last minute changes
11:58 12 that was made yesterday around 5:00 o'clock, or
11:58 13 5:30.
11:58 14 Could you tell me about those kind of
11:58 15 changes that were made?
11:58 16 MR. STENGLE: Well, what -- the Department
11:58 17 of Community Affairs had recommended the 90-day
11:59 18 mediation period as one of the options available
11:59 19 to the Commission. That was our
11:59 20 recommendation. That would have led to a 90-day
11:59 21 mediation period, and ultimately led to a
11:59 22 proposed rule being noticed, at which point it
11:59 23 would be challenged.
11:59 24 The Administration Commission staff did not
11:59 25 accept that portion of the Department's
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11:59 1 recommendation; and instead, recommended that
11:59 2 the Administration Commission go immediately to
11:59 3 the rulemaking process, and that the terms of
11:59 4 the -- the specific terms of the rule would be
11:59 5 developed through the rulemaking process,
11:59 6 through the public hearing process, through the
11:59 7 notice of change, perhaps even through
11:59 8 negotiated rulemaking.
11:59 9 That is one of the options available to the
11:59 10 Commission, and we don't oppose that in any way.
11:59 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Dan, is there any way
11:59 12 that you could go on two tracks, that you could
11:59 13 actually begin the rulemaking process so you --
12:00 14 you're setting a time -- turning the clock on as
12:00 15 far as that goes; but at the same time, you
12:00 16 could mediate -- you could go into mediation
12:00 17 during that time?
12:00 18 MR. STENGLE: The rulemaking doesn't
12:00 19 foreclose mediation, Governor. But it would
12:00 20 appear that -- that that may muddy the waters by
12:00 21 having a mediation process -- a directed
12:00 22 mediation with -- process on one hand, with a
12:00 23 number of identified parties.
12:00 24 And a rulemaking process on the other hand
12:00 25 that invites public participation --
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12:00 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, one of the things
12:00 2 you're trying to do is -- I think from a
12:00 3 standpoint of the -- of the Governor and the
12:00 4 Cabinet, is this thing has gone on forever --
12:00 5 MR. STENGLE: Yes.
12:00 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- we know that you've
12:00 7 got to come to closure. And the other side is,
12:00 8 you could have just the mediation, and that
12:00 9 could just be another 90 days, then you haven't
12:00 10 started anything.
12:00 11 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir.
12:00 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: So I think for that
12:00 13 reason, I'm kind of persuaded that I would like
12:00 14 to start the clock running. You know, that's a
12:00 15 statement that we can put that we are very
12:01 16 serious that we are -- you know, this thing is
12:01 17 going to come to closure.
12:01 18 On the other hand, I listened to some of
12:01 19 the parties, I think you have to compliment the
12:01 20 County Commission. Ninety-seven percent of the
12:01 21 report -- you know, of the comp plan has been
12:01 22 adopted.
12:01 23 There certainly has been a sea change in
12:01 24 the -- the direction of the Monroe County
12:01 25 Commission in recent years from -- from where we
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12:01 1 know they used to be.
2 And --
12:01 3 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir.
12:01 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- and it may be that to
12:01 5 go in just to slam the door, that there could be
12:01 6 any mediation, again, you are going through a
12:01 7 long, protracted lit-- a process of litigation
12:01 8 and appeals, all the way through that.
12:01 9 So, you know, if there's some way I can
12:01 10 have my cake and eat it, too, we can set the
12:01 11 clock running.
12:01 12 But at the same time, we can say, look,
12:01 13 we're not closing the door to mediation, we
12:01 14 think the -- that the County Commission has done
12:02 15 good works, and maybe, you know, with the
12:02 16 deadline before them, that would give them sort
12:02 17 of a -- the impetus to say, look, we've got to
12:02 18 do this, we have to make the best thing we can
12:02 19 make out at this time.
12:02 20 MR. STENGLE: There are a number of
12:02 21 mechanisms in Chapter 120 which would allow some
12:02 22 kind of negotiated rulemaking process, or a
12:02 23 draw out proceeding in the course of the
12:02 24 rulemaking process.
12:02 25 The rulemaking process is calculated to
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12:02 1 bring, as you know, as much information as
12:02 2 possible to the decision makers, you all, in the
12:02 3 final adoption of -- of the rule, and even --
12:02 4 even the proposed rule.
12:02 5 That is not foreclosed at all. And the
12:02 6 Department of Community Affairs will bring as
12:02 7 many parties into this mix as it possibly can,
12:02 8 including our sister agencies, to try to direct
12:02 9 the rulemaking, to reach these ultimate
12:02 10 conclusions.
12:02 11 And we don't believe that this is
12:02 12 inconsistent at all with the objective of the
12:02 13 Commission, or of the recommended order.
12:03 14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
12:03 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:03 16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I'm going to try
12:03 17 your phraseology one more time here.
12:03 18 I continue to hear exactly what you're
12:03 19 saying, Dan, that you could technically use the
12:03 20 rulemaking possibilities almost as a
12:03 21 quasi-mediation system --
12:03 22 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir.
12:03 23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- without trying to
12:03 24 speak for the Governor, and I was thinking along
12:03 25 the same lines.
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12:03 1 Rulemaking and mediation, while it somehow
12:03 2 accommodates a little of both, there is an art
12:03 3 to rulemaking -- even though most people don't
12:03 4 believe there is -- is different than rulemaking
12:03 5 and/or mediation.
12:03 6 So I'm going to ask what I think the
12:03 7 Governor asked: Is there any legal potential
12:03 8 here for the rulemaking process to begin, and
12:03 9 include within it, all of the public hearings
12:03 10 that are required and all the considerations of
12:03 11 the public as they bring their information
12:03 12 forward, as well as locally elected officials;
12:04 13 and run a mediation track simultaneously with
12:04 14 that?
12:04 15 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir, Commissioner. And
12:04 16 I believe that would be phrased in terms of a
12:04 17 negotiated rulemaking. And the final order
12:04 18 could designate the parties to the proceeding as
12:04 19 participants in that negotiated rulemaking.
12:04 20 I think.
12:04 21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That is --
12:04 22 MR. STENGLE: That would --
12:04 23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the bottom line
12:04 24 is, that is something different than just the
12:04 25 standard rule promulgation process --
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12:04 1 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir.
12:04 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- is what I'm trying
12:04 3 to get at.
12:04 4 MR. STENGLE: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'd --
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll --
7 MR. STENGLE: -- you could identify the
12:04 8 parties to that negotiated rulemaking, or what
12:04 9 have you, and still open it up to the public
12:04 10 hearing process.
12:04 11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think we're on a
12:04 12 good line of thinking.
12:04 13 I would, if it's possible, like to hear
12:04 14 from somebody from the DCA who might have an
12:04 15 opinion about how this would work, and it's
12:04 16 their recommendations.
12:04 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Dan.
12:04 18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well -- but I
12:04 19 understand that DCA was against -- DCA wanted
12:04 20 the 90-day mediation.
12:04 21 MR. STENGLE: That was our -- that was our
12:04 22 recommendation, Commissioner. That was our
12:04 23 recommendation. The Administration Commission
12:04 24 staff changed that recommendation to their own,
12:05 25 which would have gone directly to rulemaking to
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12:05 1 avoid an additional 90-day delay.
12:05 2 I think they both -- it would end up at the
12:05 3 same place.
12:05 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think that
12:05 5 negotiated rulemaking, looks like to me, it
12:05 6 merges two ideas, and allows us to set the
12:05 7 clock; at the same time, allow us to -- there to
12:05 8 be a -- make it clear that we're still looking
12:05 9 to see if it's -- this issue can be mediated.
12:05 10 Yes, ma'am.
12:05 11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I -- I agree
12:05 12 wholeheartedly. I believe that we do need to
12:05 13 keep the dialogue going here. I certainly
12:05 14 believe that we ought to allow local elected
12:05 15 officials to be very involved in the negotiated
12:05 16 process.
12:05 17 And I'm not sure that we have the exact
12:05 18 language to get this done. But I would move
12:05 19 that we make the amendment to this order to
12:05 20 allow a negotiated rulemaking process to -- to
12:05 21 go forth.
12:06 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: I -- I think if we're
12:06 23 clear, I think we can ask the -- delegate the
12:06 24 authority to draw this to encompass what we're
12:06 25 talking about.
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12:06 1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, again, I --
12:06 2 you know, the word stewardship has been used on
12:06 3 numerous occasions this morning. And I think
12:06 4 the -- the Florida Cabinet acting in this
12:06 5 capacity, I think we are stewards.
12:06 6 I think, as you've seen throughout this
12:06 7 morning's activities, we're stewards of much:
12:06 8 We're stewards of finances, we're stewards of
12:06 9 highway safety, we're stewards of bond
12:06 10 financing. But we're also stewards of two other
12:06 11 most prized possessions in the state of Florida,
12:06 12 and that's the environment and children in the
13 state of Florida.
12:06 14 And I will draw a parallel, if you'll
12:06 15 indulge me, between what I think we're
12:06 16 discussing here today, and the act of the State
12:06 17 Board of Education not too long ago that
12:06 18 recognized that some of our schools were in
12:07 19 trouble, that some of our schools were having
12:07 20 problems.
12:07 21 And that was not an indictment of those who
12:07 22 are current stewards of the children in those
12:07 23 schools and the current stewards of those
12:07 24 children in those districts, as some have
12:07 25 believed.
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12:07 1 It was simply recognition of the fact that,
12:07 2 as are the Florida Keys, the critical point of
12:07 3 concern for all of us in the state, I think the
12:07 4 country, children who are in schools that are
12:07 5 having serious learning difficulty are of
12:07 6 critical concern to this same body.
12:07 7 And so we engaged, I think, in an activity
12:07 8 that did not close the door on those locally
12:07 9 elected officials, nor indict those locally
12:07 10 elected officials, many of whom, like
12:07 11 Commissioner London and his colleagues on the
12:07 12 Monroe County Commission, were very strong in
12:07 13 their position that they are, indeed, actively
12:07 14 involved in addressing those areas of critical
12:07 15 concern, and they should not be indicted for
12:08 16 either lack of action, or simply historical
12:08 17 occurrences that have created the present
12:08 18 situation.
12:08 19 So I think that -- that the action that
12:08 20 we're talking about here today is very similar,
12:08 21 that this is not an indictment of those locally
12:08 22 elected officials, I do applaud them for coming
12:08 23 up with something that is 97 percent
12:08 24 acceptable.
12:08 25 But I also recognize there is a tremendous
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12:08 1 urgency, as there is -- and a tremendous urgency
12:08 2 in those schools that are having critical
12:08 3 learning difficulties, that we are -- take
12:08 4 action, because we are stewards of those
12:08 5 children, we are stewards of the Florida Keys.
12:08 6 But also keep the door open to allow people
12:08 7 to continue to dialogue and continue to take
12:08 8 action who, indeed, have shown a propensity for
12:08 9 those kinds of things.
12:08 10 So I'm happy to hear from many who sit up
12:08 11 here that -- that there is that, I believe,
12:08 12 possibility through the action of -- of the
12:08 13 Cabinet today.
12:08 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think -- let me see if
12:08 15 I've stated this, Secretary Mortham. I think
12:09 16 she -- the motion is that we support the
12:09 17 amended -- an amended staff recommendation
12:09 18 amended to -- to say that the rulemaking
12:09 19 spell out -- would encompass negotiated
12:09 20 rulemaking that would allow the named parties to
12:09 21 participate, and especially the Commission,
12:09 22 during the time.
12:09 23 But at the same time, then we're -- we're
12:09 24 setting the clock.
12:09 25 Is that --
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12:09 1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: (Nodding head.)
12:09 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a second?
12:09 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would second that,
12:09 4 Governor.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
6 moved and seconded.
12:09 7 So many as favor that, signify by saying
12:09 8 aye.
12:09 9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Aye.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
12:09 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
12:09 14 The ayes have it.
12:09 15 Thank you.
16 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
17 concluded.)
18 *
19
20
21
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25
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12:09 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees.
12:10 2 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
12:10 3 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1, minutes.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12:10 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12:10 7 Without objection, the minutes are
12:10 8 approved.
12:10 9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2, a submerged land
12:10 10 aquaculture lease.
12:10 11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12:10 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved --
12:10 13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12:10 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- Item 2 is moved and
12:10 15 seconded.
12:10 16 Without objection, that's approved.
12:10 17 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 is --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: For the
19 record --
12:10 20 MS. WETHERELL: -- a rule --
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I vote
12:10 22 no.
12:10 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Record the
12:10 24 Attorney General as no.
12:10 25 Did you have a question?
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12:10 1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I can wait.
12:10 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
12:10 3 Item 3 did you say?
12:10 4 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 is a rule repeal.
12:10 5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12:10 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12:10 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
12:10 8 item 3.
12:10 9 Without objection, that's approved.
12:10 10 MS. WETHERELL: Item 4 is a memorandum
12:10 11 agreement with Dade County.
12:10 12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12:10 13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12:10 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
12:10 15 Without objection, it's approved.
12:10 16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 5, we'd recommend
12:10 17 conceptual approval of the "Storm of the
12:11 18 Century" quitclaim deeds.
12:11 19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move conceptual
12:11 20 approval.
12:11 21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12:11 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded on
12:11 23 conceptual approval.
12:11 24 Without objection, it's approved.
12:11 25 MS. WETHERELL: Item 6 is a lease
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12:11 1 modification, and we have three speakers.
12:11 2 If I can call on, first of all,
12:11 3 Manley Fuller.
12:11 4 MR. FULLER: Thank you.
12:11 5 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
12:11 6 MR. FULLER: Governor and Cabinet,
12:11 7 regarding the proposed Island Marina permit, we
12:11 8 are concerned that this application allows for
12:11 9 vessels having a draft up to four-and-a-half
12:11 10 feet.
12:11 11 It's been our position for some time that
12:11 12 this system is suitable for boats with a 3 foot
12:11 13 draft level. I've provided by fax with your
12:12 14 offices a copy of a recent photograph which is
12:12 15 located adjacent to the marina site that says --
12:12 16 it says: Warning, vessels with drafts greater
12:12 17 than 3 feet are not appropriate for passage
12:12 18 through Wiggins Pass.
12:12 19 That's a sign by Collier County.
12:12 20 Mr. David Guest with Sierra Club Legal
12:12 21 Defense Fund has indicated to me that the
12:12 22 Marine Patrol, who regards the depths greater
12:12 23 than 3 feet as being unsuitable for passage
12:12 24 through Wiggins Pass would also have a --
12:12 25 I believe Mr. Guest has an affidavit from the
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12:12 1 Coast Guard that they don't take vessels -- they
12:12 2 don't take 4-foot draft vessels that they have
12:12 3 into Wiggins Pass.
12:12 4 And our -- this is our -- our chief
12:13 5 concerns with this proposal regard the depth.
12:13 6 And our concern there is based on, we don't want
12:13 7 to see an intensification, either a deepening,
12:13 8 or -- or increasing the frequency of the
12:13 9 dredging of Wiggins Pass, which is naturally a
12:13 10 very shallow water body.
12:13 11 It's proposed -- it's been -- was recently
12:13 12 recognized by the ERC as an outstanding Florida
12:13 13 waters, it's got great fish and wildlife habitat
12:13 14 values. We don't want to see any
12:13 15 intensification.
12:13 16 We feel like if you let bigger and deeper
12:13 17 draft boats in there, there's going to be
12:13 18 increased pressure down the road to intensify
12:13 19 that dredging, and that will further increase
12:13 20 the turbidity and other problems within that
12:13 21 system.
12:13 22 So we -- our comments address that specific
12:13 23 part of the application.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Mr. Fuller,
12:13 25 what would --
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1 MR. FULLER: Yes, sir.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- what
12:13 3 would you suggest we do, we -- to amend the
12:13 4 staff recommendation?
12:13 5 MR. FULLER: We would like you to amend the
12:13 6 staff recommendation such that vessels greater
12:14 7 than a 3 foot draft should not be permitted by
12:14 8 the Trustees.
12:14 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'll move
12:14 10 that to start the discussion.
12:14 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12:14 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
12:14 13 MR. FULLER: Thank you.
12:14 14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'd just like to ask
12:14 15 the Secretary her thoughts, staff thoughts.
12:14 16 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I'd like to let the
12:14 17 staff talk. We've got two more speakers, too,
12:14 18 after this that you may want to ask some
12:14 19 questions of.
12:14 20 MR. CRAFT: I'm Jeremy Craft with DEP.
12:14 21 I think that is the legitimate concern, the
12:14 22 draft out there. The issue of the acceptability
12:14 23 of number of boats and the depth of the draft is
12:14 24 something that was litigated in the
25 Conklin Point Marina, which is located just
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12:14 1 across the waterway from this one.
12:14 2 And the findings in that marina dealt with
12:15 3 the number of boats allowable for certain
12:15 4 drafts. We have applied the same percentage of
12:15 5 restrictions with drafts for the various numbers
12:15 6 of boats to this marina that the hearing officer
12:15 7 recommended in the Conklin Point hearing.
12:15 8 So while there is legitimate concern that
12:15 9 Mr. Fuller has addressed, we think we're being
12:15 10 consistent with the past agency action and the
12:15 11 finding that -- that came out of litigation.
12:15 12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So you would
12:15 13 be opposed to it then.
12:15 14 MR. CRAFT: I think it's an inconsistency
12:15 15 there. We recommended, based on the resources
16 originally in that Conklin Point hearing, the
12:15 17 draft restrictions that were adopted. So we
12:15 18 think that's consistent with what's suitable for
12:15 19 the resources out there.
12:15 20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Are you
12:15 21 proposing a rule to designate this as an
12:15 22 Outstanding Florida Waterway?
12:15 23 MR. CRAFT: Yes, sir. The Department has
12:15 24 proposed that this be designated an OFW, and the
12:15 25 ERC at their meeting late last month adopted
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12:15 1 it --
12:15 2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is the
12:15 3 applicant --
4 MR. CRAFT: Now --
12:16 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is the
12:16 6 applicant for this modification also in favor of
12:16 7 that?
12:16 8 MR. CRAFT: The applicant for this
12:16 9 modification has challenged that rule, and the
12:16 10 rule challenge is pending. That litigation --
12:16 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If it's
12:16 12 going to be an Outstanding Florida Waterway, is
13 there any difference whether that's a
12:16 14 three foot, or four-and-a-half foot?
12:16 15 MR. CRAFT: The -- the issue -- because
12:16 16 this was applied for before the adoption of the
12:16 17 OFW is not something that would be considered in
12:16 18 this lease. Or in the permit that is about to
12:16 19 be issued on this.
12:16 20 The impacts, should the application have
12:16 21 come in after adoption of an OFW, would have
12:16 22 been a factor for consideration.
12:16 23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But we're
12:16 24 not bound by anything, seeing that as we have
12:16 25 not expanded anything yet, right?
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12:16 1 MR. CRAFT: In my opinion, you're not bound
12:16 2 by anything.
12:16 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.
12:16 4 That's all I have.
12:16 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
12:17 6 MR. RILLSTONE: Good afternoon, members of
12:17 7 the Trustees. My name is Douglas Rillstone.
12:17 8 I'm an attorney with the law firm of Greenberg,
12:17 9 Traurig at their Tallahassee office here in
12:17 10 town.
12:17 11 I've had the pleasure of representing the
12:17 12 applicant in this matter, Island Marina, Inc.
12:17 13 And to start off with, we'd like to express our
12:17 14 appreciation with staff with working with us
12:17 15 since April of '94 to try to bring this matter
12:17 16 to the Trustees to -- to get some closure on
12:17 17 this.
12:17 18 With respect to the draft limitations, we'd
12:17 19 just like to raise a few points. One, we're
12:17 20 looking for some consistency. The draft
12:17 21 limitations that we've accepted are consistent
12:17 22 with the hearing officer's findings of facts in
12:17 23 the administrative hearing that was conducted on
12:17 24 Conklin Point, 190 split marina directly north
12:17 25 of our facility. It's a private marina, ours is
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12:17 1 a public marina.
12:17 2 So we're looking for some consistency
12:17 3 there.
12:17 4 FDEP -- or DEP has recommended the draft
12:18 5 limitations that we voluntarily accepted. This
12:18 6 is an existing marina. We have 61 vessels in
12:18 7 our marina as it sits. Twenty-six of those
12:18 8 vessels have drafts that exceed 3 feet.
12:18 9 Three feet or greater.
12:18 10 We have a 35 foot sailboat that presently
12:18 11 occupies this marina that has a draft of 4 feet
12:18 12 3 inches.
12:18 13 The hearing officer found that there's
12:18 14 adequate water to support safe navigation
12:18 15 through the pass. There's an existing
12:18 16 management plan that will be considered by the
12:18 17 Collier County government in January of 1996,
12:18 18 which calls for the existing maintenance dredge,
12:18 19 all of which is acceptable to our client.
12:18 20 The Corps has reviewed this -- this marina
12:18 21 on two occasions, 1991, and 1994. On both
12:18 22 occasions, the Corps, the United States
12:18 23 Department of Army Corps of Engineers, has
12:18 24 issued a permit authorizing construction of this
12:18 25 facility.
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12:18 1 One of their key considerations is
12:18 2 navigation. They've issued a permit twice with
12:18 3 no considerations -- or no concern with
12:18 4 navigation.
12:19 5 But perhaps the most compelling argument we
12:19 6 think is this marina represents about 8 percent
12:19 7 of the slips within the Fokahatchee River, the
12:19 8 slips and the dry slips within the
12:19 9 Fokahatchee River.
12:19 10 Government is about fairness. Government
12:19 11 is about being treated equally. By imposition
12:19 12 of this draft limitation, we're certainly not
12:19 13 advocating a 3 foot draft limitation. We've
12:19 14 been doing without. By imposing a 3 foot draft
12:19 15 limitation on this marina, a very small minority
12:19 16 within this system, we've been singled out, but
12:19 17 at a competitive disadvantage for other people
12:19 18 who are using this system.
12:19 19 Again, the recommended order, which is now
12:19 20 a final order, that's been entered into by the
12:19 21 Department, has found that the draft limitations
12:19 22 that staff has recommended are acceptable for
12:19 23 this system.
12:19 24 Any questions?
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes, sir.
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12:19 1 Sir, I can understand why you say it was a
12:19 2 pleasure to represent this client. Because of
12:19 3 their history of noncompliance with the State of
12:20 4 Florida, I'm sure your legal fees have been
12:20 5 substantial in this case.
12:20 6 The -- whenever anyone comes up to ask for
12:20 7 an extension of anything, if they've had a
12:20 8 history of noncompliance with the State of
9 Florida, and that's having them moving ahead
12:20 10 over time, as one member of the Board of
12:20 11 Trustees, I don't usually try to help their
12:20 12 clients out too much because they have not been
12:20 13 what I consider to be good corporate citizens
12:20 14 attempting to help this state preserve its
12:20 15 waterways and the beauty of this state.
12:20 16 I find it to be very -- really very unusual
12:20 17 for your client to be challenging proposed
12:20 18 designation as an Outstanding Florida Waterway.
12:20 19 And with a history of noncompliance.
12:20 20 I mean, your client comes before us in '91
12:20 21 requesting a -- a commercial per-- a commercial
12:20 22 dock. Of course, you can get more spaces that
12:20 23 way.
12:20 24 And then what do you do? You put the
12:20 25 condominiums -- you advertise your condominiums,
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12:21 1 and says private dock. When we call your client
12:21 2 on it, the lawyer says, don't worry about it,
12:21 3 that's been taken care of.
12:21 4 Of course, we still have four, six, or
12:21 5 seven additional advertisements thereafter still
12:21 6 saying private docks for the -- the condominium.
12:21 7 So as far as I'm concerned, I am not going
12:21 8 to sit here and literally allow your client to
12:21 9 just completely disregard the rules of the State
12:21 10 of Florida completely.
12:21 11 But, like I say, I can understand why you
12:21 12 support your deal with this client, because it
12:21 13 appears like they're going to be in litigation
12:21 14 for quite an amount of time.
12:21 15 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
12:21 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:21 17 TREASURER NELSON: -- I'd like to ask the
12:21 18 counsel why his client represented this as a
12:21 19 private dock when he was told by the
12:21 20 Attorney General's Office that that was not in
12:21 21 compliance with the law?
12:21 22 MR. RILLSTONE: If I may digress a little
12:21 23 bit and give us some history on the facility.
12:21 24 This facility initiated -- it started its
12:21 25 permitting back in the mid '80s. Construction
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12:22 1 was undertaken in late 1991.
12:22 2 And before the -- the Trustees had
12:22 3 considered the lease, there were representations
12:22 4 by the private counsel that there would be no
12:22 5 advertising of this facility as a private
12:22 6 marina. And there have been occasions in which
12:22 7 the -- the condominium -- I'd like to point that
12:22 8 out, it's the condominium, not the marina -- has
12:22 9 advertised this marina as a private marina. And
12:22 10 it did so, we think, about five times. We've
12:22 11 had some disputes with staff as to the correct
12:22 12 time.
12:22 13 Those issues have happened. Those issues
12:22 14 have happened between 1991, and we believe
12:22 15 sometime in 1993. There was certainly no intent
12:22 16 to circumvent any direction of the Trustees, or
12:22 17 to -- to undertake actions inappropriate with
12:22 18 prior representations to the Trustees or their
19 staff.
12:22 20 They've happened. It's history, we've
12:22 21 addressed it with the Department. We've
12:22 22 addressed it on an annual basis with the
12:22 23 Attorney General's Office. And I assume we will
12:23 24 continue to address that.
12:23 25 The condominium owner who undertook the
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12:23 1 advertisement is now out of the facility. The
12:23 2 condominium has been turned over to the
12:23 3 condominium association.
12:23 4 The marina is a separate operating entity,
12:23 5 and it doesn't advertise. It doesn't need to
12:23 6 advertise. If there was some effort to try to
12:23 7 circumvent the rules, my client has failed
12:23 8 miserably. And out of the 61 units that are
12:23 9 presently occupied in the marina, only 12 are
12:23 10 occupied by people who have an interest in the
12:23 11 condominium.
12:23 12 TREASURER NELSON: You are asking in this
12:23 13 modification that your scope of 5 feet be
12:23 14 permitted for each slip; is that correct?
12:23 15 MR. RILLSTONE: That's correct.
12:23 16 TREASURER NELSON: And that's a depth of
12:23 17 5 feet.
12:23 18 MR. RILLSTONE: That's -- the scope is the
12:23 19 distance between the back of the boat and the
12:23 20 perimeter dock; and the front of the boat, and
12:23 21 the outboard mooring piles. It's to provide for
12:23 22 safer mooring.
12:23 23 TREASURER NELSON: And what would the depth
12:23 24 be that you're asking for?
12:23 25 MR. RILLSTONE: The depth that we're asking
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12:24 1 for is set forth in the staff recommendation,
12:24 2 and that is, a certain amount of boats -- I
12:24 3 think up to 14 boats can have a draft of up to
12:24 4 four-and-a-half feet.
12:24 5 TREASURER NELSON: Four-and-a-half feet.
12:24 6 Are there other marinas in the immediate
12:24 7 vicinity that have the permits to have up to a
12:24 8 four-and-a-half foot draft?
12:24 9 MR. RILLSTONE: The marina immediately
12:24 10 adjacent to us, Conklin Point, has 190 slips.
12:24 11 Twenty percent, or thereabout, of their slips
12 have drafts up to four-and-a-half feet.
12:24 13 Four-and-a-half feet.
12:24 14 TREASURER NELSON: And what does that
12:24 15 translate to in numbers, as compared to yours?
12:24 16 MR. RILLSTONE: We're at fourteen,
12:24 17 20 percent. Roughly 40 vessels.
18 TREASURER NELSON: I see.
12:24 19 MR. RILLSTONE: I don't have the numbers in
12:24 20 front of me.
12:24 21 TREASURER NELSON: Forty vessels for you.
12:24 22 MR. RILLSTONE: Forty vessels for them,
12:24 23 about 14 for us.
12:24 24 TREASURER NELSON: And how about, are there
12:24 25 other marinas in the immediate vicinity?
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12:24 1 MR. RILLSTONE: There are several
12:24 2 residential marinas in the vicinity. No draft
12:24 3 restrictions are placed upon them. Our
12:25 4 calculations, about 143 private docks in the
12:25 5 system.
12:25 6 All total, we've calculated about 1,000 dry
12:25 7 and wet slips in this system. Just within the
12:25 8 Fokahatchee River.
12:25 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
12:25 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:25 11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- counsel, why would
12:25 12 your client challenge the designation of
12:25 13 Outstanding Florida Waters? What -- what would
12:25 14 that potentially do to your client?
12:25 15 MR. RILLSTONE: Our concern and the
12:25 16 challenge, and the reason why we challenged, is
12:25 17 we don't believe the Department carried its
12:25 18 burden in designating the waters within the
12:25 19 marina as an OFW. It was a very limited rule
12:25 20 challenge, it challenges the rule.
12:25 21 But for purposes of the Department or the
12:25 22 ERC designating the water within the marina as
12:25 23 an OFW, it has to reach the criteria of
12:25 24 exceptional, recreational, and ecological
12:25 25 significant. We don't believe the Department
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12:25 1 has carried that burden.
12:25 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And what specifically
12:25 3 would that do to your client if that designation
12:25 4 were incurred?
12:26 5 MR. RILLSTONE: We're concerned that if,
12:26 6 for whatever reason, there is some modification
12:26 7 with an internal footprint of the marina --
12:26 8 for example, we want to put smaller boats in
12:26 9 there.
12:26 10 Or, for example, we come up with a better
12:26 11 way to moor vessels that is safer for the
12:26 12 public, we would obviously have to go back to
12:26 13 the Department of Environmental Protection for
12:26 14 an additional permit.
12:26 15 Under the OFW designation, we have to meet
12:26 16 the clearly and the public interest test.
12:26 17 Whereas under today's standards, we have to be
12:26 18 not contrary to the public interest. And as a
12:26 19 practical matter, that is a very substantial
12:26 20 burden to overcome.
12:26 21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Other questions?
12:26 22 Yes, sir.
12:26 23 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a question of
12:26 24 Mr. Fuller?
12:26 25 If there's an adjacent marina that is
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12:26 1 allowed a depth of four-and-a-half feet, why is
12:26 2 it your opinion that these folks should only be
12:27 3 allowed 3 feet?
12:27 4 MR. FULLER: We disagreed with the
12:27 5 hearing officer's decision regarding draft.
12:27 6 And Mr. Guest, who represented us in that
12:27 7 matter, is -- can speak to that. He's right
12:27 8 behind me.
12:27 9 TREASURER NELSON: Could we have him
10 address that question --
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:27 12 TREASURER NELSON: -- Governor?
12:27 13 MR. GUEST: David Guest here for the
12:27 14 Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund.
12:27 15 In answer to your question, the -- the
12:27 16 Florida Marine Patrol had sent a letter that was
12:27 17 approved by the commandant I believe, that says
12:27 18 simply that the pass, quote, will not
12:27 19 accommodate vessels greater than the 3 feet
12:27 20 draft safely.
12:27 21 The -- the Coast Guard concurred in that
12:27 22 hue, not as advocacy, but simply informed us
12:27 23 through a sworn statement that we requested,
12:27 24 that they do not allow vessels greater than
12:28 25 3 feet through that pass because of the safety
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12:28 1 issues.
12:28 2 And similarly, as Mr. Fuller had said,
12:28 3 the -- the County has a warning sign that says
12:28 4 they won't accommodate vessels over 3 feet.
12:28 5 We think the hearing officer simply did --
12:28 6 Did somebody have a --
12:28 7 -- that we felt that the hearing officer
12:28 8 simply did not defer to the experts on that as
12:28 9 he should have.
12:28 10 And I submit that this is like a situation
12:28 11 where -- where you're trying to decide whether
12:28 12 it's in the public interest to have a speed
12:28 13 limit of, say, 55 on a turn in a road.
12:28 14 And the -- and the Florida Highway Patrol
12:28 15 has said, you know, based on the history of
12:28 16 accidents and our view of it, it's simply unsafe
12:28 17 to have a speed limit of 55 in a place like
12:28 18 this, because there's going to be accidents.
12:28 19 And I feel like the Governor and Cabinet
12:28 20 can and should defer to their experts, the
12:28 21 Florida Marine Patrol, and to the Coast Guard
12:29 22 and to the County, the people that are aware of
12:29 23 the area, and act in the public interest and
12:29 24 say, that's just not a safe place to be at all
12:29 25 in a vessel that's that big.
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12:29 1 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
12:29 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:29 3 TREASURER NELSON: -- my question's a
12:29 4 little bit different.
12:29 5 I'm trying to compare. The counsel for the
12:29 6 developer has said that an adjacent marina is
12:29 7 allowed 40 vessels to dock that have a draft of
12:29 8 four-and-a-half feet.
12:29 9 So if there are vessels that are
12:29 10 four-and-a-half feet that are going through this
12:29 11 pass already, why do you then oppose this
12:29 12 developer -- this marina having four-and-a-half
12:29 13 feet?
12:29 14 MR. GUEST: Because we submit that that
12:29 15 permit was a mistake, that never should have
12:29 16 been issued. Because -- and let me explicitly
12:29 17 say why.
12:29 18 Is that -- is that it's true that you can
12:29 19 get a four-and-a-half foot draft vessel through
12:30 20 there at high tide. It's true that even
12:30 21 probably at moderate tide, you can get a vessel
12:30 22 through there.
12:30 23 But it's the same as saying that -- that at
12:30 24 normal driving conditions in bright light, low
12:30 25 traffic, no rain, that you can get a -- a car
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12:30 1 around this turn at 55 miles an hour without
12:30 2 flipping it over.
12:30 3 But we submit that -- and we submitted to
12:30 4 the hearing officer, that that's not how you
12:30 5 should measure things. You should measure it in
12:30 6 adverse conditions. And that's the basis for
12:30 7 the Coast Guard's determination. They just
8 don't let their boats go through there.
12:30 9 And the Florida Marine Patrol, they look
12:30 10 not at the best conditions, but at the worst
12:30 11 conditions. And when the conditions are bad,
12:30 12 there's big waves in there, the boats are
12:30 13 bouncing up and down, tide can be real low, the
12:30 14 wind can be blowing. It's a very narrow
12:30 15 channel, highly congested.
12:30 16 And the Marine Patrol thought based on
12:30 17 that, not in normal conditions, but in adverse
12:30 18 conditions, this was a hazardous place.
12:30 19 And it's -- I submit it's the same with a
12:31 20 highway. You say -- you don't put the speed
12:31 21 limit on a highway at perfect driving
12:31 22 conditions. You consider expected adverse
12:31 23 conditions.
12:31 24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
12:31 25 I --
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12:31 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:31 2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I might
12:31 3 have some solution to this. I will just try a
12:31 4 motion if I can.
12:31 5 And that would be to deny the -- the
12:31 6 modification for an expansion at the present
12:31 7 time and come back to us after the -- the rule
12:31 8 designating this area as Outstanding Waterway
12:31 9 has been resolved.
12:31 10 TREASURER NELSON: Well, for purposes of
12:31 11 discussion, I'll second his motion.
12:31 12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: There's already a
12:31 13 motion.
12:31 14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We have two motions.
12:31 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: A substitute
12:31 16 motion then, Governor.
12:31 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's moved as
12:31 18 a substitute.
12:31 19 TREASURER NELSON: And I second it.
12:31 20 GOVERNOR CHILES: And there is a second.
12:31 21 TREASURER NELSON: Now, could somebody
12:31 22 explain to me the designation of an Outstanding
12:31 23 Waterway. And what -- what implication that
12:31 24 will have on this.
12:31 25 MS. WETHERELL: The designation of an OFW
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12:32 1 would mean to this applicant, or any applicant,
12:32 2 that they would have to meet the higher public
12:32 3 interest test. They would have to demonstrate
12:32 4 that the project is in the public interest.
12:32 5 So this means that -- that the standards
12:32 6 would be stricter in terms of any modification
12:32 7 that they came in for.
12:32 8 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, may I ask one
12:32 9 more question?
12:32 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
12:32 11 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary, the
12:32 12 testimony we've already had says that there are
12:32 13 40 slips that are permitted in an adjacent
12:32 14 marina that are allowed to have a draft over
12:32 15 3 feet, specifically four-and-a-half feet.
12:32 16 Are there -- is there another arena --
12:32 17 marina or marinas in the vicinity that likewise
12:32 18 have over a 3 foot draft?
12:32 19 MS. WETHERELL: I'm told that there are
12:32 20 other marinas in the area that don't have any
12:32 21 draft requirements. So that they could exceed
12:32 22 that.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Including
24 this one.
12:32 25 Including this one, right? Because they --
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12:33 1 they already have vessels that are about
12:33 2 four-and-a-half already.
12:33 3 TREASURER NELSON: Does this marina have --
12:33 4 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. They have existing
12:33 5 slips at that draft. So when they came in for a
12:33 6 renewal, and based on the previous
12:33 7 hearing officer's findings, we didn't feel we
12:33 8 had the -- the right at that point to remove
12:33 9 their existing conditions. And given the equity
12:33 10 of the surrounding marinas.
12:33 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. We have a
12:33 12 substitute motion before us.
12:33 13 So many as favor the substitute, signify by
12:33 14 saying aye.
12:33 15 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
12:33 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
12:33 18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No.
12:33 19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
12:33 20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
12:33 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: The substitute fails.
12:33 23 We --
12:33 24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Back to the motion.
12:33 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- have the staff
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12:33 1 recommendation before us.
12:33 2 So many as favor that, signify by saying
12:33 3 aye.
12:33 4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Aye.
12:33 5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
12:33 6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
12:33 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
12:33 9 TREASURER NELSON: No.
12:33 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
12:34 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Staff recommendation
12:34 12 passes.
12:34 13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
12:34 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
12:34 15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- before we get into
12:34 16 the next item, Item 11 from the November 29th,
12:34 17 1995, Board of Trustees agenda, and you might
12:34 18 recall it from the words, this was the one that
12:34 19 we talked about being a bifurcated item. The
12:34 20 applicant was Palm Grove Marina.
12:34 21 The determination of fine based on the
12:34 22 information that the site of submerged land
12:34 23 lease was located in an aquatic preserve. And
12:34 24 maybe Secretary Wetherell would want to speak to
12:34 25 this.
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12:34 1 It has come to my attention that this
12:34 2 determination may have, in fact, been
12:34 3 inaccurate. And for that reason, I'd like to
12:35 4 move that we do reconsider that item.
12:35 5 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
12:35 6 Trustees, we would like to see this item
12:35 7 re-- reconsidered possibly at the next Cabinet
12:35 8 meeting. But today you would need to move to
12:35 9 reconsider it. And then postpone that
12:35 10 consideration to the next time. At --
12:35 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: So you enter the motion
12:35 12 today, and that tolls the -- any running of the
12:35 13 motion not being ordered, then we would look at
12:35 14 this at the next Cabinet meeting.
12:35 15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct.
12:35 16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. We're
12:35 17 aware of that same information. So I'd be glad
12:35 18 to second the motion.
12:35 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. It's been
12:35 20 moved and seconded that -- that we reconsider,
12:35 21 and we'll leave that pending.
12:35 22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Great.
12:35 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very good.
12:35 24 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
12:35 25 Okay. Item 7 is the Santa Rosa Bay Bridge
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12:35 1 Authority, public easements and a severance.
12:35 2 We have many speakers, Governor, and
12:35 3 Trustees, and it's up to you as to a time
12:35 4 limit. But I show about 24 speakers on this
12:35 5 item.
12:35 6 I would suggest that we let the applicant
12:35 7 choose a -- a person to speak --
12:35 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: We would like --
9 MS. WETHERELL: -- to give us --
12:35 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to finish up before
12:36 11 Christmas.
12:36 12 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir.
12:36 13 Certainly before New Year's.
12:36 14 I would suggest that we -- that the
12:36 15 applicant be given a time to make a
12:36 16 presentation, and then we would limit the other
12:36 17 remaining 23 speakers to, what would you say?
12:36 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, how much per side,
12:36 19 so to speak. I mean --
12:36 20 MS. WETHERELL: If you want to do it per
12:36 21 side, we have -- we have about 12 speakers who
12:36 22 are opponents, and eight or nine speakers who
12:36 23 are proponents.
24 (Comptroller Milligan exited the room.)
12:36 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I would say,
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12:36 1 you know, this is an important area, we
12:36 2 recognize that. Let's do 20 minutes to a side?
12:36 3 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Twenty minutes
12:36 4 to a side. All right. I'm going to divide
12:36 5 these up and put about half of the proponents in
12:36 6 the front, and at the end; and the opponents in
12:36 7 the middle since there are so many more of
12:36 8 those. If I can do that.
12:36 9 I will call first on Mahlon McCall, who's
12:37 10 Chairman of the Santa Rosa Bridge Authority.
12:37 11 MR. McCALL: Governor Chiles, members of
12:37 12 the Cabinet, I want to thank you for the
12:37 13 opportunity of appearing here today and speaking
12:37 14 a few words on behalf of the Garcon Point Bridge
12:37 15 project.
12:37 16 As you may or may not recall, this project
12:37 17 has been in the mill for --
12:37 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: We already know --
12:37 19 (Comptroller Milligan entered the room.)
20 MR. McCALL: -- years, Governor.
12:37 21 And I can say without any reservation that
12:37 22 we are here today largely because of the
12:37 23 continued encouragement and support of the local
12:37 24 people there -- in that community, the people
12:37 25 that'll be affected by this local project.
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12:37 1 This is a very unique project. As a matter
12:37 2 of fact, I would call it a model local
12:37 3 transportation project, the Garcon Point Bridge
12:37 4 project.
12:37 5 It's unique in that we have assured
12:38 6 environmental safety, we have utilized
12:38 7 extraordinary precaution from an environmental
12:38 8 standpoint, and we are very proud of that fact.
12:38 9 And we have people here that can address the
12:38 10 issue regarding that if you happen to have
12:38 11 questions on the details of that.
12:38 12 Also, it's unique in its financing. I
12:38 13 don't know of another project in this state that
12:38 14 is structured exactly like the Garcon Point
12:38 15 Bridge project.
12:38 16 It's unique in that it has no gas tax
12:38 17 pledged, not one dime of gas tax pledged for
12:38 18 this project to support it.
12:38 19 Also there is no full faith and credit
12:38 20 backing of any county, state, or federal
12:38 21 governmental entity with this project. So it's
12:38 22 unique. We're proud of that fact. Speaks well
12:38 23 for our -- for it because it has shown that it
12:38 24 will be a feasible financial project.
12:38 25 This is a stand-alone facility. It's going
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12:38 1 to be supported by toll revenues. I have no
12:39 2 doubt in my mind about that.
12:39 3 Now, if I may, I'd like to read part of a
12:39 4 paragraph from a draft of the official bond
12:39 5 statement.
12:39 6 Now, you -- you people received copies of
12:39 7 this yesterday. It was hand delivered. I don't
8 know whether you've had a chance to look that
9 over or not.
12:39 10 But, if I may take the liberty, I'd like to
12:39 11 read from that on page 2, the middle of the
12:39 12 page:
12:39 13 Neither the State of Florida; Santa Rosa
12:39 14 County, Florida; the Authority; nor any
12:39 15 political subdivision of the state of Florida
12:39 16 shall be liable for the payment of the principal
12:39 17 of, or create value; premium, if any; or
12:39 18 interest on the series 1995 A bonds.
12:39 19 And the full faith and credit of the State
12:39 20 of Florida; Santa Rosa County, Florida; the
12:39 21 Authority; or any other political subdivision of
12:39 22 the state of Florida shall not be deemed to have
12:39 23 been pledged for the payment of the principal of
12:39 24 a created value; premium, if any; or interest on
12:39 25 the series 1995 A bonds.
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12:40 1 The Authority has no taxing power. No
12:40 2 owner of any of the series 1995 A bonds shall
12:40 3 ever have the right to compel the exercise of
12:40 4 the ad valorem taxing power of Santa Rosa
12:40 5 County, or taxation in any form of real property
12:40 6 therein, or the application of any funds other
12:40 7 than funds pledged under the resolution to the
12:40 8 payment of the series 1995 A bonds.
12:40 9 There seems to be some lingering concern
12:40 10 about this issue, and I would hope this would
12:40 11 resolve it.
12:40 12 If there are questions from any of you, we
12:40 13 do have people that can address those that are
12:40 14 here with us today.
12:40 15 We are here simply to obtain a submerged
12:40 16 land lease. The other permitting requirements
12:40 17 of the state of Florida -- this is the last
12:40 18 stop. The other permitting requirements have
12:40 19 been met, we have those permits in hand.
12:40 20 We need you today to approve the submerged
12:41 21 land lease. This will be our final stop with
12:41 22 this great state. Do that, and you'll make a
12:41 23 lot of people very happy.
12:41 24 Thank you very much for this opportunity to
12:41 25 speak to you today.
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12:41 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12:41 2 MS. WETHERELL: If I can call on
12:41 3 Representative Jerry Burroughs.
12:41 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Good morning.
12:41 5 REPRESENTATIVE BURROUGHS: Good afternoon,
12:41 6 Governor. Good to see you again.
12:41 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Let's do something, and
12:41 8 move that sign-up book somewhere. It's taking a
12:41 9 half a minute every time we sign somebody up.
12:41 10 Yes, sir.
12:41 11 REPRESENTATIVE BURROUGHS: Good to see you
12:41 12 again, Governor. Good afternoon.
12:41 13 Governor, I'm here this afternoon to voice
12:41 14 my support of the Garcon Point Bridge. I'm also
12:41 15 here and representing the Santa Rosa County
12:41 16 delegation in saying that unanimously, we
12:41 17 support the bridge.
12:41 18 Governor, in northwest Florida, we have had
12:42 19 a voice, and today we're here to stand up and
12:42 20 show you our support of the bridge.
12:42 21 At this time, with your permission, I would
12:42 22 like all the constituents and northwest
12:42 23 Floridians to stand up and show their support.
12:42 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you all for your
12:42 25 appearance here today.
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12:42 1 REPRESENTATIVE BURROUGHS: Governor, for
12:42 2 the sake of time, I'm not going to ask them to
12:42 3 speak, but just want to show you that we have
12:42 4 support over there that's in need of a project.
12:42 5 And I want to thank you for coming over
12:42 6 there after Opal and spending so much time over
12:42 7 there. We really appreciate it.
12:42 8 General Butterworth, I appreciate it.
12:42 9 Mr. Nelson, thank you.
12:42 10 We ask you to continue supporting us and
12:42 11 giving us this evacuation route. You saw the
12:42 12 devastation that occurred in Opal. It's a
12:42 13 needed project, and we ask you for support.
12:42 14 Thank you, sir.
12:42 15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12:42 16 MR. KESSLER: Good morning. I guess
12:42 17 afternoon now.
12:42 18 Governor Chiles, members of the Cabinet,
12:42 19 I'm Dave Kessler, County Commissioner,
12:43 20 Santa Rosa County.
12:43 21 I thank you for allowing me the opportunity
12:43 22 to speak to you. Though I'm not chairman this
12:43 23 year, I was asked by the County Commission to
12:43 24 come before you and present our thoughts on the
12:43 25 subject.
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12:43 1 And I guess they asked me for several
12:43 2 reasons. First of all, I'm the elder statesman
12:43 3 on the Board, I'm in my third term. And I don't
12:43 4 take that word statesman lightly. There's a
12:43 5 saying that a politician is concerned about the
12:43 6 next election, a statesman is concerned about
12:43 7 the next generation.
12:43 8 So that's why we're here today. These
12:43 9 folks that have just gotten up, a number of
12:43 10 elected officials are here, because we're
12:43 11 concerned about the need to move ahead, our
12:43 12 county, and worry about the folks that are
12:43 13 coming and going to be living here in the
12:43 14 future.
12:43 15 The second reason I guess I was asked to
12:43 16 speak is Redfish Point is in my district.
12:43 17 In fact, it's about a half mile right above my
12:43 18 house on the peninsula.
12:43 19 Of course, as many of you know, if you've
12:44 20 looked at the maps, that peninsula runs some
12:44 21 20 miles east and west just north of me.
12:44 22 And, third, I guess because of my eleven
12:44 23 years in office, I have served on a number of
12:44 24 organizations that were responsible for the
12:44 25 conceptual planning of this particular project.
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12:44 1 I've been on the -- Governor Graham's at that
12:44 2 time Escambia/Santa Rosa Coastal Resource
12:44 3 Committee, the MBO, and the RPC ever since that
12:44 4 time.
12:44 5 This bridge has been a dream of the county
12:44 6 residents for a number of years, in fact, for
12:44 7 decades. The Gulf Breeze City Council passed a
12:44 8 resolution in favor of the bridge back in 1978,
12:44 9 some 17 years ago.
12:44 10 And the reporter from the Press Gazette
12:44 11 sitting up front here mentioned yesterday that
12:44 12 it was in -- he was researching news for the
12:44 13 50 years ago column, and it was a dream back
12:44 14 then.
12:44 15 So this has been an ongoing desire from the
12:44 16 county residents for years.
12:44 17 At this time -- we've already seen from the
12:44 18 most important people, that's the residents who
12:44 19 got up at 3:00 a.m. to come over here. And we
12:45 20 appreciate our residents being involved.
12:45 21 But I'd also like to go ahead and name our
12:45 22 elected officials. All the elected officials in
12:45 23 the county support this. We've got five county
12:45 24 commissioners here.
12:45 25 Our Chairman, Bill Lundin.
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12:45 1 Would you please stand so we can see who's
2 here.
12:45 3 Lydia Ezell, Iramae Hewat, Byrd Mapoles.
12:45 4 We've got the Santa Rosa County Sheriff,
12:45 5 Jerry Brown.
12:45 6 We have the Superintendent of schools,
12:45 7 Mr. Benny Russell, Dr. Benny Russell.
12:45 8 Appreciate you coming over, Benny.
12:45 9 And from our City of Milton, we've got the
12:45 10 Mayor, Guy Thompson.
12:45 11 And our Mayor Emeritus, Clyde Gracey.
12:45 12 And some other key figures in the county,
12:45 13 from the Santa Rosa Medical Center, head of our
12:45 14 EMS ambulance services, Dominic Persichini.
15 Dominic still here? Yes.
12:45 16 And also the president of Santa Rosa County
12:45 17 Chamber of Commerce, Marty Martin.
12:45 18 Marty's in the back there.
12:45 19 If I've skipped anybody, I'm sorry.
12:46 20 So a lot of key figures that have tried to
12:46 21 get over here today to support what's going on.
12:46 22 Now, to understand why our local officials
12:46 23 are in -- and residents are supportive of the
12:46 24 bridge, let me discuss what's in the area we're
12:46 25 facing.
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12:46 1 In the '80s, we had a 47 percent growth in
12:46 2 our county. In the '90s, Florida Trend predicts
12:46 3 that that will be some 50 percent more.
12:46 4 My work district, or road district, as you
12:46 5 might call them, spans the entire southern
12:46 6 peninsula. And we've had over 70 subdivisions
12:46 7 that have come in in the years I've been in --
12:46 8 in office.
12:46 9 One of the largest subdivisions alone will
12:46 10 house 4,000 residence centers, not people. So
12:46 11 you can multiply that out how many people will
12:46 12 be there eventually.
12:46 13 So we're growing. It's estimated that the
12:46 14 build-out will be some 75,000 living on that
12:46 15 peninsula when it's finished.
12:46 16 In addition, nearby Hurlbert Field, the
12:46 17 Air Force's special operations base, has been
12:46 18 expanding extremely, thank heaven, under Bragg
12:46 19 that base is continuing.
12:47 20 But the families, many of them live in our
12:47 21 county. And as you well can expect when a
12:47 22 hurricane approaches, the aircraft are evacuated
12:47 23 to safe havens, leaving the families without the
12:47 24 head of household to help with their own
12:47 25 evacuations.
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12:47 1 And certainly, being a coastal community,
12:47 2 tourism is also on the increase, especially in
12:47 3 northwest Florida, further impacting our level
12:47 4 of service in this coastal area and on
12:47 5 Highway 98.
12:47 6 So the day-to-day needs, that's what we're
12:47 7 talking about now. I know hurricane evacuations
12:47 8 has been stressed. But just the day-to-day
12:47 9 needs serve the following purposes: The bypass
12:47 10 to the north end of the county increasing the --
12:47 11 for the increasingly congested Tiger Point, the
12:47 12 Gulf Breeze section of Highway 98, to areas like
12:47 13 Pensacola Junior College, Milton campus, to UWF,
12:47 14 and university malls.
12:47 15 It will be a more efficient access, to both
12:47 16 the north and south county areas for tourist
12:47 17 related activities, shopping areas, places of
12:47 18 work, and enhancement of business creation
12:47 19 opportunities.
12:47 20 And maybe one of the most important reasons
12:48 21 is for EMS ambulances who right now have to come
12:48 22 running with sirens blaring down that thin and
12:48 23 narrow Highway 87 on one end, or come down
12:48 24 Scenic Highway if you've been in
12:48 25 Escambia County.
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12:48 1 That's not really the kind of road you want
12:48 2 ambulances in a rush on. If they -- a more
12:48 3 direct route would certainly be the way to go on
12:48 4 this, on that aspect.
12:48 5 And finally, it certainly would be a
12:48 6 central corridor to unite our county for the
12:48 7 first time really in its history.
12:48 8 But in serving the peninsula, the bridge
12:48 9 will also act as a safety valve, so the second
12:48 10 major reason, not just the day-to-day
12:48 11 operations, but a safety valve for the fact that
12:48 12 the south end with almost 40 percent of the
12:48 13 population currently has only two routes to the
12:48 14 north, each at opposite ends of the county, the
12:48 15 infamously narrow Highway 87, and the 3-mile
12:48 16 long Pensacola Bay Bridge.
12:48 17 And, folks, after DOT spent a million
12:48 18 dollars improving the fender system on that
12:48 19 bridge, that's still an accident waiting to
12:49 20 happen.
12:49 21 The tugboat owner charged with the
12:49 22 responsibility of guiding large barges under the
12:49 23 bridge has contacted me to let me know of
12:49 24 their -- his concerns that it is the worst
12:49 25 passage along the entire Intercoastal Waterway
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12:49 1 system. Because of prevalent winds and
12:49 2 currents, plus the narrowness of the span, it is
12:49 3 only a matter of time before another barge
12:49 4 accident occurs.
12:49 5 Now, if that bridge again becomes shut
12:49 6 down, we're looking at some 50,000 cars a day
12:49 7 that have to make the 120-mile round trip,
12:49 8 40 miles of that again along that narrow
12:49 9 Highway 87. And, if you remember, it took DOT
12:49 10 one year to get that repaired. That's a lot of
12:49 11 driving that has to be done unnecessarily.
12:49 12 Finally, probably the most recently
12:49 13 verified justification is from the two
12:49 14 hurricanes, Erin and Opal, where hurricane
12:49 15 evacuation, along with military related and
12:49 16 other emergency conditions that may occur in our
12:49 17 area.
12:49 18 So for these two reasons, the potential
12:50 19 bridge disaster or hurr-- and hurricanes, I
12:50 20 might stress not only the need, but also the
12:50 21 urgency for constructing the bridge.
12:50 22 An additional key point is that last year,
12:50 23 the hearing officer at DCA in finding our comp
12:50 24 plan in full compliance, stated: Given that the
12:50 25 U.S. 98 on -- on the Gulf Breeze peninsula is
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12:50 1 indicated to be one of the more stressed
12:50 2 roadways in the county, the importance of the
12:50 3 proposed bridge to the county's evacuation needs
12:50 4 becomes apparent.
12:50 5 I might add that he goes on to say in the
12:50 6 same document basically that while the
12:50 7 intervenors were long on their allegations over
12:50 8 this 10-year period, they were short on
12:50 9 justifications.
12:50 10 This bridge has undergone environmental
12:50 11 scrutiny like no other in the past. As a
12:50 12 result, it will provide environmental
12:50 13 enhancements that will serve as a model for, and
12:50 14 should be required, of all similar projects in
12:50 15 and around the state in the future.
12:50 16 In addition, the Garcon lands on the P2000
12:51 17 list have moved from number 27 to number 12, and
12:51 18 we hope that the State will be successful in
12:51 19 acquiring them and further preserving that area.
12:51 20 In closing, we in Santa Rosa County simply
12:51 21 ask that you give us the same consideration as
12:51 22 any other county in the state. To deny this
12:51 23 project would fly in the face of all the
12:51 24 supporting local and elected officials and
12:51 25 residents and organizations, and the approving
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12:51 1 state and federal agencies.
12:51 2 We're not asking for state funding, but
12:51 3 rather as the apparent wave of the future, that
12:51 4 it be used as support. It's environmentally
12:51 5 sound and economically feasible.
12:51 6 After eleven years of study and
12:51 7 reevaluation, let's get on with it.
12:51 8 Thank you.
12:51 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
12:51 10 MS. WETHERELL: Sheriff Jerry Brown next.
12:51 11 And then I'll call on a former mayor of Milton,
12:51 12 Clyde Gracey, to come forward.
12:51 13 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
12:51 14 SHERIFF BROWN: Governor Chiles, members of
12:52 15 the Cabinet, it's good to see you again.
12:52 16 I am here to support the Garcon
12:52 17 Point Bridge. I think it has certainly a need.
12:52 18 I know they've been dealing with this issue for
12:52 19 many years now.
12:52 20 From the law enforcement standpoint, I sent
12:52 21 each and every one of you a letter -- I don't
12:52 22 know if you received a copy or not -- addressing
12:52 23 some of the issues that I was concerned with.
12:52 24 One of those issues is the response time in
12:52 25 times of emergencies. You, Governor Chiles,
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12:52 1 General Butterworth, and Mr. Nelson, all came to
12:52 2 Santa Rosa County after the storm. But you
12:52 3 weren't there in preparation of that storm.
12:52 4 We've got one roadway that links us out to
12:52 5 the north side of the county which is
12:52 6 Highway 87. We get criticized because traffic's
12:52 7 moving slowly.
12:52 8 We say to our public, get out, leave
12:52 9 early. But we all do last minute Christmas
12:53 10 shopping, we all wait until the last minute to
12:53 11 see our physicians. So it -- we're creatures of
12:53 12 habit.
12:53 13 But still, like the people that vote for
12:53 14 us, the ones that don't, they still receive the
12:53 15 same level of service. Supposed to be a level
12:53 16 playing field.
12:53 17 As a sheriff, I'm obligated and responsible
12:53 18 to respond to the needs of our citizens and our
12:53 19 county. I'm also responsible and obligated to
12:53 20 evacuate those same citizens in a safe and
12:53 21 timely manner.
12:53 22 I think with this bridge, we'll have an
12:53 23 alternate route. I don't know that it'll cure
12:53 24 the evacuation process. I certainly believe it
12:53 25 would help. It would help in response time
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12:53 1 moving our people from central to the south end
12:53 2 of the county.
12:53 3 I believe Chief Morgan from the Gulf Breeze
12:53 4 Police Department is here today. As a police
12:53 5 chief, I can tell you, especially from that
6 city --
12:53 7 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
12:53 8 SHERIFF BROWN: -- on any given day, you
12:54 9 can have a traffic accident that will block that
12:54 10 Pensacola Bay Bridge up to 3 hours at a time.
12:54 11 That's most inconvenient. We can live with
12:54 12 inconveniences from time to time. But at times,
12:54 13 it's a lot heavier than you consider.
12:54 14 We need an alternate route. I think this
12:54 15 bridge would allow that. It'll help with the
12:54 16 evacuations. It would certainly improve the
12:54 17 response time of the Sheriff's Department in
12:54 18 times of need.
12:54 19 I'm here asking your support and your vote
12:54 20 for this project. In that, you will be showing
12:54 21 the citizens of Santa Rosa County that you as
12:54 22 well support their safety and their concerns.
12:54 23 Thank you.
12:54 24 MR. GRACEY: Good evening, Governor,
12:54 25 members of the Cabinet. I served in City
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12:55 1 government in Milton for 20 years, six years as
12:55 2 council, fourteen years as mayor. And I come
12:55 3 here today not as an expert on anything.
12:55 4 But I do know something, a little bit about
12:55 5 wildlife and about fishing and about oystering
12:55 6 and about our bays. And there's nobody in
12:55 7 Santa Rosa County or the state of Florida that
12:55 8 loves this state any more than what I do, that
12:55 9 does any more fishing up and down, in and out of
12:55 10 these bayous, and so on and so forth.
12:55 11 We have a heard a lot of concerns when
12:55 12 I-10, Interstate -- I-10 was going to be built,
12:55 13 it's going to -- it's going to destroy our
12:55 14 bays.
12:55 15 When the trestle that went across, the
12:55 16 railroad trestle, it's going to destroy our
12:55 17 bays. But you've got some of the choice oyster
12:55 18 beds within 100 yards of -- of those places
12:55 19 today. And when people go fishing, where do
12:55 20 they go? They go there.
12:55 21 You've got an opportunity here for this
12:55 22 bridge to give me a new fishing spot. That's
12:55 23 right. A new fishing spot, and I have
12:55 24 dreamed -- I have dreamed of it for the last
12:55 25 50 years, since I've lived in Milton.
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12:56 1 There's a tide line mark that I talked
12:56 2 about around my stomach the last time I was
12:56 3 here. It's kind of going away now. Old Opal
12:56 4 took care of that. And I'm afraid to get over
12:56 5 and walk around and wade around.
12:56 6 But I want to tell you, there's nobody that
12:56 7 I know of anywhere that has more concern and
12:56 8 care for the environment there than what -- than
12:56 9 what I do, and what the -- the City Council and
12:56 10 City of Milton have.
12:56 11 Commissioner of Education, we were told
12 sometime back that the only way in the world
12:56 13 Bagdad School, which just received an award
12:56 14 right recently, and the only way they could ever
12:56 15 expand was is if they had a sewage treatment
12:56 16 they could hook on.
12:56 17 The City went out on their own, went out,
12:56 18 and through Benny Russell and those people,
12:56 19 provided those kids over there with a sewage
12:56 20 treatment system. They're doing the same thing
12:56 21 right now for the prison over in east Milton,
12:56 22 state of Florida.
12:56 23 There's nobody more concerned. Some of the
12:56 24 purest waters in the state of Florida flow right
12:56 25 through our city.
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12:56 1 People talk about this being a bridge to
12:57 2 nowhere. Now, I want you to know that Milton is
12:57 3 an untarnished jewel. On the western banks of
12:57 4 the Blackwater River that flows deep and dark to
12:57 5 the south forming Escambia Bay, the sound, flows
12:57 6 out and forms the Gulf of Mexico.
12:57 7 And I'll tell you right now, people have
12:57 8 talked about damming up Blackwater and drying up
12:57 9 the Gulf. We're -- we're not -- we're not
12:57 10 attemp-- figuring on doing anything like that.
12:57 11 This is one of the most important
12:57 12 decisions, seriously, for northwest Florida that
12:57 13 you'll be making on this bridge.
12:57 14 And I'll guarantee you, if -- if in my
12:57 15 heart I thought it was going to harm my
12:57 16 environment, I'd be up here standing on the
12:57 17 other side.
12:57 18 Thank you very much.
12:57 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Mayor always said if I
12:57 20 wanted to be the mayor of Milton, I daggum sure
12:57 21 wouldn't want to be the mayor after you.
12:58 22 MS. WETHERELL: We have three speakers left
12:58 23 in that category, and we've used the
12:58 24 20 minutes. I'm going to move on to the
12:58 25 opponents, then at the end come back with
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12:58 1 whatever time you're willing to give them.
12:58 2 If I can call in this order: Bob Newton,
12:58 3 Hank Steadman, and Donald Gairing to come
12:58 4 forward.
12:58 5 MR. NEWTON: Governor Chiles, members of
12:58 6 the Cabinet, my name is Robert Newton, or if
12:58 7 Rubin is in here, Fig Newton, he would know
12:58 8 that.
12:58 9 I appreciate the time you've given us, I
12:58 10 want to say a couple of things before I get
12:58 11 started. And I'll try to make it as brief as
12:58 12 possible.
12:58 13 I agree with the Governor, it's not much
12:58 14 fun to follow that gentleman.
12:58 15 Number one, we have been extremely
12:58 16 impressed with the help that you folks have
12:59 17 given us, your aides and secretaries. And I
12:59 18 probably shouldn't do this, but I want to
12:59 19 mention a couple of names.
12:59 20 One is in the Treasurer's office, the young
21 lady who's the secretary, Kyle -- I've got them
12:59 22 written down, I've forgot your name. I'm sorry
12:59 23 about that.
12:59 24 The two ladies on the -- from DEP who do
12:59 25 the scheduling, Pat Smith from Comptroller's
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1 office, Connie Consti-- Colleen Castille from
12:59 2 the office of Commissioner of Education,
3 Danny Fuchs from Governor Chiles' office, and
4 James Ford I believe it is from Mr. Crawford's
12:59 5 office.
12:59 6 I won't say they agreed with us, but they
12:59 7 were extremely helpful, extremely courteous.
12:59 8 And I wanted to get y'all in the right frame of
12:59 9 mind before I said anything else.
12:59 10 Gentlemen, could I ask one question. Could
13:00 11 all of those people who live on the peninsula
13:00 12 that came down here to be in favor of the
13:00 13 bridge, please stand up.
13:00 14 If you live on the peninsula in
13:00 15 Gulf Breeze, the bar --
13:00 16 That's all right, Jerry, you're my
13:00 17 neighbor. You --
13:00 18 I rest my case on who's in favor of the
13:00 19 bridge.
13:00 20 And I would also think it would be
13:00 21 interesting to find out how many of those people
13:00 22 would use that bridge and help pay for it.
13:00 23 Okay. I -- let me get into the business
13:00 24 itself.
13:00 25 We aren't here to say we don't like the
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13:00 1 bridge, we don't like that bridge.
13:00 2 We have given you -- and I believe --
13:00 3 Governor, did you get a folder -- you -- we
13:00 4 didn't mean to short anybody else, but everybody
13:00 5 else had been given one in their office, or
13:00 6 their aides had been given it.
13:00 7 If it's a free bridge -- I'm sure that some
13:00 8 of you people on the Cabinet have checked, and
13:00 9 have a much better idea of what the bond
13:01 10 situation responsibility for the State is than
13:01 11 we have. All we've got to go by is the -- all
13:01 12 we've got to go by is the statutes passed by the
13 state of Florida.
13:01 14 But the problem isn't that. What we ought
13:01 15 to do I think is look at the problem. Where is
13:01 16 the problem? Despite what all these folks say,
13:01 17 and they're all very good folks, there are not
13:01 18 8,000 people parked on that 3 foot high
13:01 19 peninsula waiting to cross the bridge that
13:01 20 hasn't been built. But Gulf Breeze is a mess.
13:01 21 As some of you know, if you try to go
13:01 22 through there going to work, coming back from
13:01 23 work, it's almost impossible. You have the
13:01 24 traffic lights in there that clog up the
13:01 25 traffic, you have the school is -- the school
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13:01 1 speed limit which clogs it up.
13:01 2 And early in the morning going to work,
13:01 3 coming back, and on weekends in the summer, it's
13:01 4 a mess.
13:01 5 Right now the Florida Department of
13:01 6 Transportation has an outfit called
13:02 7 HDR Engineering doing a PD&E study. And I hate
13:02 8 to say it, I don't know what those mean. But
13:02 9 they're doing this, and you all have pictures of
13:02 10 their map on U.S. 98.
13:02 11 I would like to recommend to you that you
13:02 12 consider having the Florida Department of
13:02 13 Transportation extend the scope of that study so
13:02 14 that it includes Pensacola, and it includes the
13:02 15 bridge -- another bridge across Pensacola Bay.
13:02 16 The people tell us that they can't solve
13:02 17 Gulf Breeze's problem without another bridge.
13:02 18 But their scope stops at Gulf Breeze, so they
13:02 19 pencil in a bridge, but they aren't doing
13:02 20 anything about it.
13:02 21 I would also recommend that these projected
13:02 22 traffic statements be looked at very carefully,
13:02 23 and that perhaps another study, because the
13:02 24 studies that are here are very old, other people
13:02 25 go in greater detail.
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13:02 1 But just, for instance, in order to pay for
13:03 2 that bridge according to the studies that were
13:03 3 done by the authority, every man, woman, and
13:03 4 child in Escambia County, regardless of what
13:03 5 age, would have to drive a vehicle across that
13:03 6 bridge two-and-a-half times a month. And I
13:03 7 don't think the difference between the ones that
13:03 8 will do that and the tourists will make it up.
13:03 9 All right. If you have any questions from
13:03 10 me, I will try to answer them.
13:03 11 If not, I'll call on Hank Steadman -- who
13:03 12 has a map which you can't see probably. But I
13:03 13 may hold it up here if it's all right -- who has
13:03 14 a map, and the information on traffic, the
13:03 15 traffic distances.
13:03 16 Can I make one more commercial? And I know
13:03 17 this is out of line.
13:03 18 Mr. Brogan, I taught for 18 years in
13:03 19 Escambia County, and I sure like what you're
13:03 20 trying to do.
13:03 21 Thank you.
13:03 22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir, you may say
13:03 23 that.
13:03 24 Say it again, if you like.
13:04 25 MR. NEWTON: I did, seriously.
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1 MR. STEADMAN: Governor, Cabinet members,
13:04 2 Hank Steadman.
13:04 3 I am having my brains taken away from me
13:04 4 here by the map. However, I will continue
13:04 5 talking because you should have copies on
13:04 6 your -- on your table.
13:04 7 However -- I'll hold it.
13:04 8 I'd simply like to point out from the
13:04 9 picture, the map being the picture, that we have
13:04 10 a traffic problem along here. This is
13:04 11 Highway 98, Gulf Breeze, Pensacola, Milton,
13:04 12 Navarre.
13:04 13 We are -- the study Bob Newton just
13:04 14 mentioned, the HDR study, has stated that
13:04 15 approximately 94 percent of the traffic is
13:04 16 east-west. East-west; 6 percent is
13:05 17 north-south.
13:05 18 Now, of course, the Pensacola Bridge along
13:05 19 this line is north -- is north-south. However,
13:05 20 it's going to Pensacola, it's going someplace.
13:05 21 And all the big Navy base, as you know, to the
13:05 22 west of that. That's where most of the working
13:05 23 people go. The City or the Navy, or other
13:05 24 centers in the area.
13:05 25 The point being, if you look at the numbers
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13:05 1 on the bottom of the map that I've given you,
13:05 2 there's projections at different years. This
13:05 3 year I believe the number is 54,000 cars will
13:05 4 cross this bridge, Pensacola Bay Bridge, from
13:05 5 Gulf Breeze, approximately.
13:05 6 That's per day.
13:05 7 Anyway, regardless of the time frame I'm
13:05 8 talking about, 6 percent of those cars,
13:05 9 according to the HDR and the study by FDOT, will
13:06 10 use this bridge. This is the new Garcon Point
13:06 11 Bridge in red here.
13:06 12 Now, if you calculate that quickly, you're
13:06 13 talking about something around 3,000 cars. And
13:06 14 this is a day, by the way. This is per day.
13:06 15 And the numbers indicated it's going to
13:06 16 take somewhere, six, seven, or eight thousand
13:06 17 cars per day to support this bridge. Now, this
13:06 18 is a Commission that is charted by the govern--
13:06 19 by the State Department of Transportation, and
13:06 20 that's what they're telling us.
13:06 21 Now, two of the studies that have been
13:06 22 mentioned, one in 1989, or '88, I won't give you
13:06 23 the names -- but this -- this study forecasts
13:06 24 10 to 15 percent increase in traffic per year.
13:06 25 All right. So along in 1991, there was
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13:06 1 another traffic study, which was updating, and
13:06 2 lo and behold, there had been no increase.
13:07 3 None. And since then, there hasn't been a
13:07 4 traffic study by the Bridge Authority.
13:07 5 Because -- I don't know why -- I don't know why.
13:07 6 Now, the bulk of the traffic is trying to
13:07 7 go east-west. So why do we need this little
13:07 8 spur in here which is probably going to delay a
13:07 9 good bridge, like a four-laner over here to
13:07 10 Pensacola, and mass improvement, four-laning of
13:07 11 Highway 87.
13:07 12 Other lines here -- and it was stated
13:07 13 before by one of the previous group, that
13:07 14 departing Gulf Breeze, that the Garcon Point
13:07 15 Bridge would be a shortened alternative.
13:07 16 Well, you can't see it probably, but on
13:07 17 your map, you've got exactly the same size
13:07 18 departing Gulf Breeze up Highway 98 through the
13:07 19 Garcon Point Bridge, Avalon Boulevard to a point
13:07 20 on Highway 10 where Avalon intercepts.
13:08 21 Or Gulf Breeze along with the existing bay
13:08 22 bridge, Scenic Highway, and Highway 10, it's a
13:08 23 little bit shorter than going across that new
13:08 24 bridge that's going to cost you $2. So who's
13:08 25 going to use it?
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13:08 1 The numbers say 18.4 miles to do it this
2 way, and 19.2 to do it that way. Each trip.
13:08 3 Each way.
13:08 4 Gentlemen, I can go on with lesser
13:08 5 important figures, lesser demanding figures.
13:08 6 But I believe I've made the point that we really
13:08 7 need some east-west highway work in lieu of a
13:08 8 little two-lane bridge going up to the north.
13:08 9 And the HDR study that has been
13:08 10 commissioned should prove that point.
13:09 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13:09 12 MR. GAIRING: Governor, members of the
13:09 13 Cabinet, my name's Don Gairing. I live in -- in
13:09 14 Gulf Breeze on the southern peninsula of
13:09 15 Santa Rosa County.
13:09 16 And I am here to speak against the bridge.
13:09 17 I speak against the bridge not because I -- it
13:09 18 would gain me any personal benefit or I have any
13:09 19 hidden agenda or I have any political reason to
13:09 20 do so.
13:09 21 I speak against the bridge because I
13:09 22 believe that it is an unnecessary structure, it
13:09 23 will be a waste of resources for the County and
13:09 24 for the State, and it will not solve any of the
13:09 25 real traffic problems which exist and need
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13:09 1 addressing very badly.
13:09 2 In addition, I -- it is my conviction that
13:09 3 it puts the taxpayers of both the County and the
13:09 4 State of Florida in jeopardy.
13:10 5 The bridge -- the Garcon Point Bridge is
13:10 6 not needed because, as you have just heard, most
13:10 7 of the traffic on route 98 is east and west, it
13:10 8 is not north and south, according to the WSA
13:10 9 study, traffic study.
13:10 10 The Secretary of the Department of
13:10 11 Transportation has said that such a bridge will
13:10 12 not alleviate at all any traffic problems in
13:10 13 Gulf Breeze. It's a situation where going from
13:10 14 our area in the southern part of the county up
13:10 15 to Milton is no farther by going through
13:10 16 Pensacola than it is by going through this
13:10 17 proposed bridge at -- and going in that
13:11 18 direction does not require a $4 round trip toll.
13:11 19 It kind of makes sense. The interest in
13:11 20 people along -- in the peninsula and along the
13:11 21 route 98 corridor is either along the corridor
13:11 22 itself, or in or through Pensacola.
13:11 23 And as you have just heard, as much of a
13:11 24 jewel in the crown of Santa Rosa County as
13:11 25 Milton is, it is not a -- by any stretch of the
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13:11 1 imagination, a great magnet for people, except
13:11 2 those who have specific business there.
13:11 3 It is -- it is, therefore, a bridge that
13:11 4 will be underused, if it is used. And it --
13:11 5 because of low usage, there will be low traffic
13:11 6 counts. And because of low traffic counts,
13:12 7 there will be low revenue generated.
13:12 8 There seems to be some thought this is
13:12 9 going to be a free bridge. It's going to be a
13:12 10 bridge that we are going to get at no cost. All
13:12 11 the risk and the cost will be on the shoulders
13:12 12 of bond holders.
13:12 13 Fortunately, that is not true, as all of us
13:12 14 here know. The State has already advanced or
13:12 15 given a total of $35 million to the Santa Rosa
13:12 16 Bay Bridge Authority.
13:12 17 The -- somehow the Bridge Authority must
13:12 18 get another hundred and -- or another million
13:12 19 dollars to buy land, or at least to give land
13:12 20 for the preservation of wetlands to the
13:12 21 Northwest Florida Water Management District.
13:13 22 If, as we contend, the traffic, it does not
13:13 23 generate enough money to pay off the bond issue,
13:13 24 the state, as I think you know, assumes the
13:13 25 responsibility. And consequently, the taxpayers
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13:13 1 of the state assume a responsibility. Federal
13:13 2 Statute 218 gives them that responsibility, and
13:13 3 I presume you are all familiar with it.
13:13 4 Therefore, I would make the following two
13:13 5 recommendations: One is that you disapprove --
13:13 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: You're talking about a
13:13 7 federal statute that requires the --
8 MR. GAIRING: Florida.
13:13 9 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- state of Florida --
13:13 10 MR. GAIRING: Florida Statute 218.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Florida statute.
12 MR. GAIRING: It's Florida Statute 218.
13 I --
13:13 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't think that we're
13:13 15 pledging the full faith and credit of the state
13:13 16 of Florida on this bridge, or anything like
13:13 17 this.
13:13 18 MR. GAIRING: Well, I -- you -- you, I
13:13 19 presume, have all seen the statute, and I can't
13:13 20 comment, I'm no lawyer. It reads to me like you
13:13 21 do.
13:14 22 But you -- just so you look at it, I bring
13:14 23 it to attention, to confirm or disconfirm what I
13:14 24 said.
13:14 25 My second recommendation would be that you
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13:14 1 expand the PD&E study being undertaken by the
13:14 2 HDR Engineering and sponsored by the Florida
13:14 3 Department of Transportation to include
13:14 4 Pensacola and to propose Pensacola-Gulf Breeze
13:14 5 Bridge.
13:14 6 Thank you for your --
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13:14 8 MR. GAIRING: -- attention, gentlemen.
13:14 9 MR. REID: Good afternoon, Governor Chiles
13:14 10 and Cabinet. I'm Bob Reid. I'm conservation
13:14 11 officer for Choctawhatchee Audubon Society.
13:14 12 I'm one of several of us from the central
13:14 13 time zone who set our clocks early this morning
13:14 14 and grabbed a cup of coffee and came on over
13:14 15 here to share with you our concerns about this
13:14 16 project.
13:14 17 There's another group here, obviously
13:15 18 organized by a Milton real estate broker. This
13:15 19 group was -- was bused here to show support for
13:15 20 the bridge.
13:15 21 I request that -- I hope that you will
13:15 22 consider both sides equally, but do note the
13:15 23 demographics. One side seeks narrow personal
13:15 24 gain, the other wants only to avoid
13:15 25 environmental and economic loss for all
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13:15 1 Floridians.
13:15 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: You know, I think you can
13:15 3 characterize what you're here for, but don't
13:15 4 characterize what all these people are here for.
13:15 5 MR. REID: But I would like to say that
13:15 6 this issue should be decided by a show of facts
13:15 7 rather than a show of bodies.
13:15 8 And I'd like to hit just briefly on three
13:15 9 of those facts.
13:15 10 First that -- the project best fell doomed
13:16 11 for the Garcon's wet prairies. Because such
13:16 12 prairies depend on frequent fire to suppress the
13:16 13 intrusive woody plants, regular prescribed
13:16 14 burning must be a central part of the
13:16 15 preservation. Fire is a part of nature.
13:16 16 But smoke management concerns preclude the
13:16 17 use of fire near major highways. You can ask
13:16 18 Eglin -- Jackson barge people about this. They
13:16 19 can't burn up close to the highways.
13:16 20 Without such fire, Garcon's special fish
13:16 21 and plant communities will, slowly but surely,
13:16 22 give away to an unnatural mix. And this
13:16 23 includes even, of course, the thousands of acres
13:16 24 that are already in state ownership. We're
13:16 25 going to lose the wet prairie there if we can't
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13:16 1 have fire in it.
13:16 2 And I had a -- there was a gentleman who
13:16 3 was going to come talk about this from a -- that
13:16 4 had experience in the area. He is a Florida
13:17 5 national areas inventory field biologist who
13:17 6 knows very much how wet prairies are
13:17 7 maintained. But when he asked his boss to come
13:17 8 over to talk today, he was told that he could
13:17 9 not.
13:17 10 The second fact, like you mention, is that
13:17 11 there are about 100 square miles of conditional
13:17 12 shellfish quality waters that surround
13:17 13 Garcon Point.
13:17 14 These will be unquestionably degraded by
13:17 15 the project. The Yellow River Marsh Aquatic
13:17 16 Preserve, one of 42 such special areas in
13:17 17 Florida, lies along Garcon's eastern flank.
13:17 18 Now, the bridge planners will admit that
13:17 19 their mitigation strategies will not control
13:17 20 polluted run-off from the bridge. And because
13:17 21 the water in the East Bay circulates very
13:17 22 slowly, this bridge run-off, along with the
13:17 23 added nutrient surge that will come with
13:17 24 secondary development, would eventually kill the
13:17 25 extensive East Bay oyster industry.
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13:18 1 And the third point, and I think this is
13:18 2 the most important point, is the one that's been
13:18 3 hit on before, is that the toll revenue simply
13:18 4 cannot pay for this span. I doubt it'd even
13:18 5 come close. And I speak from experience because
13:18 6 I'm from Okaloosa County, and we have a similar
13:18 7 facility there, the Midbay Bridge, across the
13:18 8 Choctawhatchee Bay.
13:18 9 The Midbay a day carries something over
13:18 10 8,000 cars a day. It has a $2 toll. Yet it
13:18 11 still requires augmentation by the local gas
13:18 12 tax. And just as an aside here, I'd like to
13:18 13 point -- this was a letter -- an article -- a
13:18 14 front page article in the Daily News from
15 Staffordview this week telling about the Okal--
13:18 16 County Commission -- Okaloosa County
13:18 17 Commission's efforts now to unload the
13:18 18 Midbay Bridge to the federal government.
13:18 19 And it says in the article that the main
13:18 20 reason behind the request is financial.
13:19 21 The Garcon Point span will cost twice -- at
13:19 22 least twice what the Midbay cost. Fewer cars
13:19 23 will use it. We know it's going to be fewer
13:19 24 than 8,000 a day using it. And there's no local
13:19 25 tax support pledged to back it up.
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13:19 1 This means that -- I think, that Florida
13:19 2 taxpayers -- I don't think that the
13:19 3 state of Florida is going to allow a bridge
13:19 4 authority to fail. And this means Florida
13:19 5 taxpayers will surely have to bail it out.
13:19 6 Now, regrettably these facts have been
13:19 7 overlooked, allowing the flogged proposal to
13:19 8 reach your level. A system that should have
13:19 9 haulted it before now has failed. Now it's up
13:19 10 to you.
13:19 11 In the best interest of all Florida
13:19 12 citizens, Choctawhatchee Audubon Society's
13:19 13 five hundred or so members urge you to please
13:19 14 not grant a submerged land -- lands lease for
13:19 15 this project.
13:19 16 Thank you.
13:20 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
13:20 18 MR. WALLIN: Governor Chiles, members of
13:20 19 the Cabinet, I'm Tom Wallin. And I, too, live
13:20 20 in Santa Rosa County in the south end --
13:20 21 excuse me. The weather's getting my throat a
13:20 22 little bit.
13:20 23 I was a charter member of the Santa Rosa
13:20 24 Bridge Authority, and I served on that fine
13:20 25 group for about eight years.
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13:20 1 But I came to a very different conclusion
13:20 2 than the members of that group have presented to
13:20 3 you today. I relied on the same reports that
13:20 4 they considered, the same studies that they
13:20 5 considered, and I am now firmly convinced from
13:20 6 public meetings that we've heard, and from the
13:20 7 studies that we conducted, that there is no need
13:20 8 for the proposed bridge, that the bridge simply
13:20 9 cannot pay for itself from tolls, and that the
13:21 10 bridge is unwanted by most people in Santa Rosa
11 County.
13:21 12 For background, I think you already have
13:21 13 that, you have seen the maps of the area.
13:21 14 You -- you can tell that Pensacola is the hub of
13:21 15 employment, commerce --
13:21 16 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
13:21 17 MR. WALLIN: -- shopping. People go back
13:21 18 and forth between the peninsulas, north and
13:21 19 south, to Pensacola. There's very little
13:21 20 traffic in the -- or the east and west rather.
13:21 21 There's very little traffic in the
13:21 22 north-south direction. People go from
13:21 23 Gulf Breeze to Pensacola. They don't go from
13:21 24 Gulf Breeze to Milton.
13:21 25 Therefore, the traffic flow is in the
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13:21 1 east-west direction, rather than the north-south
13:21 2 direction.
13:21 3 I came to Tallahassee by way of 87, which
13:21 4 is a north-south route, the only one in the
13:21 5 county, and there was very little traffic on it
13:21 6 today.
13:21 7 Highway 98, the 3-mile bridge into
13:21 8 Pensacola from the Gulf Breeze area is always
13:21 9 bumper to bumper.
13:21 10 Now, with this in mind, I ask you to look
13:21 11 at what has happened in consideration of this
13:22 12 bridge. The legislation that created the bridge
13:22 13 authority gave absolutely no guidance as to what
13:22 14 purpose this bridge was supposed to serve.
13:22 15 In essence, we were chartered to consider
13:22 16 several alternate routes, and to select one and
13:22 17 build it.
13:22 18 And we made that selection, despite
13:22 19 requests from the public, just on this basis.
13:22 20 We did not consider what purpose the bridge was
13:22 21 supposed to serve. There was no effort to
13:22 22 determine on the part of the majority of the
13:22 23 authority whether or not the bridge was to be
13:22 24 used to relieve traffic on the east-west route
13:22 25 to the south --
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13:22 1 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
2 MR. WALLIN: -- Highway 98 and the 3-mile
13:22 3 bridge, whether or not it was supposed to
13:22 4 shorten the distance to major destinations in
13:22 5 the area that it served, or whether or not it
13:22 6 was supposed to serve as a hurricane evacuation
13:22 7 route, or any other useful purpose, for that
13:22 8 matter.
13:22 9 And, indeed, I have to tell you that the
13:22 10 bridge does absolutely none of these things.
13:22 11 The distance between Gulf Breeze and Milton,
13:23 12 which are your major centers of population in
13:23 13 Santa Rosa County, are exactly the same if you
13:23 14 go the existing route by virtue of the scenic
13:23 15 highway in Pensacola, or if you go over the new
13:23 16 bridge. No travel distance.
13:23 17 And if go from the very base of the bridge,
13:23 18 which is the most favorable point to it, over to
13:23 19 the northern part of Santa Rosa County, where
13:23 20 Interstate 10 and 110 intersect -- that's a hub
13:23 21 of shopping, medical services, et cetera -- it's
13:23 22 3 miles further going to the new bridge.
13:23 23 The picture for the new bridge gets worse
13:23 24 if you're going further south over to
13:23 25 Escambia County, and stays about the same if
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13:23 1 you're going further north.
13:23 2 The Bridge Authority conducted absolutely
13:23 3 no studies related to hurricane evacuation. It
13:23 4 amazes me to hear them say that that is not
13:23 5 our -- a major purpose of the bridge.
13:23 6 Quite frankly, I can't see how anyone in
13:23 7 their right mind would take a two-lane bridge
13:23 8 into a low lying wetland area that the civil
13:24 9 defense maps tell you to avoid in times of
13:24 10 rising water.
13:24 11 But the lack of need is not the most
13:24 12 important factor in and of itself. It's the
13:24 13 fact that it's not going to be used.
13:24 14 These optimistic travel projections are
13:24 15 based on the Bridge Authority consultants, and
13:24 16 are based on a number of assumptions. And I'm
13:24 17 going to just touch on one assumption, if you'll
13:24 18 permit me.
13:24 19 And that assumption is that there be no
13:24 20 improvement to the existing competing routes.
13:24 21 Now, I would challenge any elected official to
13:24 22 say during the lifetime of this bridge, we are
13:24 23 not going to improve Highway 98 and the 3-mile
13:24 24 bridge route, which is already gridlocked, and
13:24 25 leave the county without being lynched.
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13:24 1 That's a -- that's just politically
13:24 2 intolerable. It can't be done. That is certain
13:24 3 to be improved. The highway department is
13:24 4 already looking at it.
13:24 5 And the studies of the Bridge Authority say
13:24 6 that if you do improve it, the projected traffic
13:24 7 for the Garcon Bridge would be reduced by
13:25 8 75 percent. From a projected 8,000 cars a day
13:25 9 to about 2,000 cars a day.
13:25 10 And it's questionable where -- whether
13:25 11 8,000 cars a day could support the cost of that
13:25 12 bridge. Certainly 2,000 cars a day could not.
13:25 13 The other factor I think which should be
13:25 14 considered is that in looking at the financial
13:25 15 picture, the Bridge Authority did retain a
13:25 16 nationally respected financial advisor to
13:25 17 evaluate the feasibility of the bridge.
13:25 18 When it became clear that that advisor's
13:25 19 report was going to be very unfavorable, the
13:25 20 Bridge Authority suppressed that report by
13:25 21 firing the advisor.
13:25 22 I respectfully submit, if the Authority had
13:25 23 reasonable confidence in the soundness of the
13:25 24 project financially, they would have no problem
13:25 25 in accepting the report and dealing with the
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13:25 1 findings in full public view.
13:26 2 The agencies that have considered this thus
13:26 3 far have not been responsible for the financial
13:26 4 side of this bridge. The burden of fiscal
13:26 5 responsibility is one that falls solely on you
13:26 6 fellows.
13:26 7 I thank you for giving me this little extra
13:26 8 time to speak to you.
13:26 9 If you have any questions, I'll be glad to
13:26 10 try to answer them.
13:26 11 Questions.
13:26 12 Thank you.
13:26 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13:26 14 MS. WETHERELL: Both sides have had a
13:26 15 little bit better than 20 minutes. There are
13:26 16 still 12 speakers who had signed up. But both
13:26 17 sides have had the 20 minutes. So it's your
13:26 18 pleasure.
13:26 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let's -- let's give
13:26 20 a minute apiece --
13:26 21 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
13:26 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- to those speakers.
23 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Then we continue.
13:26 24 I'm just going to call you up, please.
13:26 25 Michael O'Keefe, Ed Case, Manley Fuller,
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13:26 1 Susie Caplowe, Bob Tagatz, and John Guice.
13:27 2 MR. CASE: Good afternoon, Governor, and
13:27 3 Cabinet members.
13:27 4 My name is Ed Case, I live in south
13:27 5 Santa Rosa County on the Gulf Breeze peninsula
13:27 6 in the Tiger Point subdivision, not far from
13:27 7 Commissioner Kessler, but in a different world.
13:27 8 I represent the Francis M. Weston Audubon
9 Society, of which I'm president. We cover
13:27 10 Santa Rosa and Escambia Counties. My primary
13:27 11 concern about the bridge is environmental. The
13:27 12 difficulty, however, is that while the different
13:27 13 agencies have dealt with the mitigation and
13:27 14 minimization of environmental damage, none of
13:27 15 them have looked at whether there should be
13:27 16 any.
13:27 17 And that goes back to the purpose of the
13:27 18 bridge. And the purpose of the bridge is that
13:27 19 there isn't any purpose of the bridge. The
13:27 20 bridge has been a solution looking for a problem
13:27 21 since its inception.
13:28 22 Everybody in the south end of the county
13:28 23 knows that there's no reason for the bridge.
13:28 24 Every day I hear people talk about the bridge.
13:28 25 I've heard hundreds, literally hundreds of
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13:28 1 people in the south end of the county talk
13:28 2 about, quote, that stupid bridge, unquote.
13:28 3 They know that there's no need for it. And
13:28 4 the people that say that there is a need for it,
13:28 5 that they have studies that show a need for it,
13:28 6 those studies conflict with common sense.
13:28 7 And the people have already told you that
13:28 8 there's no need for the bridge, and I'm simply
13:28 9 reinforcing that.
13:28 10 I do want to say that I also serve on the
13:28 11 citizens advisory council to the Metropolitan
13:28 12 Planning Organization for the Pensacola
13:28 13 metropolitan area.
13:28 14 The citizens advisory council asked for a
13:28 15 presentation on the technical justification for
13:28 16 the bridge. We wanted to see credible origin
13:29 17 and destination studies that showed that the
13:29 18 bridge was needed. We asked three times for it,
13:29 19 we were stonewalled. We haven't seen it yet.
13:29 20 The chairman of the bridge committee took
13:29 21 my name and address and promised to send me
13:29 22 something. I don't have it yet.
13:29 23 Okay. The process. DEP looked at all
13:29 24 those mitigation and minimization issues, and
13:29 25 their professionals said, don't approve the
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13:29 1 bridge, disapprove it.
13:29 2 They were sent back for them to say it
13:29 3 again. It came up, and they said, don't approve
13:29 4 the bridge. They were sent back, and they
13:29 5 studied it again.
13:29 6 The third time that it came up, they found
13:29 7 a reason to approve the bridge. I guess it was
13:29 8 out of respect for the then Speaker of the
9 House.
13:29 10 The Corps of Engineers -- the
13:29 11 Corps of Engineers said at the outset that they
13:30 12 couldn't see any clear need for the bridge.
13:30 13 What was the purpose of the bridge? How can we
13:30 14 examine -- how can we do our statutory
13:30 15 responsibility for examining alternatives to the
13:30 16 bridge, unless we know what the purpose of the
13:30 17 bridge is?
13:30 18 MS. WETHERELL: Your minute is up. The
13:30 19 Governor said 1 minute.
13:30 20 MR. CASE: All right. I'm sorry it took me
13:30 21 so long to get here.
13:30 22 I'm going to tell you about the
13:30 23 environmental system that was then destroyed,
13:30 24 and why.
13:30 25 Anyway, the Corps of Engineers found a
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13:30 1 reason to approve the bridge. And I know that
13:30 2 they were pressured by a United States Senator
13:30 3 before they did.
13:30 4 Okay. The environmental system -- I'm
13:30 5 going to have to yield here.
13:30 6 The environmental system is going to be
13:30 7 lost, because if you approve this before you
13:30 8 complete the Preservation 2000 project, you will
13:30 9 have speculation and development on the
13:31 10 peninsula. The FNAI has defined the ecosystem
13:31 11 as 7,314 acres of essential land. It must be
13:31 12 preserved.
13:31 13 The hydrology of the system, if you -- if
13:31 14 you go in and put piecemeal development up
13:31 15 inside that -- those boundaries, you're going to
13:31 16 ruin the hydrology of what you already own and
13:31 17 what you propose to buy.
13:31 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13:31 19 MR. GUICE: Governor Chiles, and Honorable
13:31 20 members of the Cabinet, I've timed my speech
13:31 21 here to 3 minutes, and I hope that inasmuch as
13:31 22 some of the other people took a considerable
13:31 23 more time than that, I would hope that --
13:31 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I'm going to ask
13:31 25 you not to take that long, for the simple reason
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13:31 1 that we have another major issue after this that
13:31 2 we have a lot of people that have traveled for,
13:31 3 and I'm extending it now.
13:31 4 While we said 20 minutes to the side, we
13:32 5 just at some stage, you know, have to --
13:32 6 MR. GUICE: Could I have the courtesy of
13:32 7 3 minutes?
13:32 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: If I give you 3 minutes,
13:32 9 then I've got to give everybody else 3 minutes.
13:32 10 MR. GUICE: I'll make it as brief as I can,
13:32 11 sir.
13:32 12 I'm John J. Guice, a resident of south
13:32 13 Santa Rosa County for 43 years. Therefore,
13:32 14 I believe I'm quite familiar with our needs.
13:32 15 Seven days ago, we celebrated the 44th
13:32 16 anniversary of Pearl Harbor. I, along with my
13:32 17 comrades, served in the jungles of the southwest
13:32 18 Pacific.
13:32 19 I mention this episode in my life for we
13:32 20 proudly served to come home to a country which
13:32 21 was supposed to be governed by, of, and for the
13:32 22 people.
13:32 23 I'm disappointed that that political
13:32 24 atmosphere does not exist in Santa Rosa County.
13:32 25 It is one dedicated to political interest and
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13:32 1 greed, and not the will and the need of the
13:32 2 residents.
3 And so it goes with Santa Rosa Bridge
13:32 4 Authority, whose members are appointed, for the
13:32 5 most part, by political cronies whose goal is to
13:32 6 put the bridge in regardless of its cost to
13:32 7 taxpayers, a bridge that does not take people
13:33 8 where they want or need to go.
13:33 9 I think the question to be answered here
13:33 10 today is: Do we really need the bridge. The
13:33 11 resident who resides on the peninsula for the
13:33 12 most part works, shops, and commutes to
13:33 13 Pensacola by Highway 98 and the Pensacola Bay
13:33 14 Bridge.
15 This being an east-west arm and destination
13:33 16 corridor, therefore, the proposed two-lane
13:33 17 Garcon-Redfish Point Bridge, being a north-south
13:33 18 artery going to the Milton area, would not serve
13:33 19 our needs.
13:33 20 Therefore, the residents of the south end
13:33 21 will be affected most by its construction, not
13:33 22 the north end. This is why the majority of the
13:33 23 residents of the south end simply don't want the
13:33 24 bridge.
13:33 25 This -- the supporters of the bridge are
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13:33 1 going to try to lead you to believe it is needed
13:33 2 for hurricane evacuation. Hogwash.
13:33 3 During the approach of the last two
13:33 4 hurricanes, the Pensacola Bay Bridge and the
13:33 5 Destin and Midbay Bridge were both closed,
13:33 6 simply because the high winds on the bridge made
13:33 7 them too dangerous to be used.
13:34 8 Therefore, this is -- this, or no other
13:34 9 bridge, would be feasible for evacuation.
13:34 10 Highway 87 needs to be widened. And its present
13:34 11 state serves an excellent area of evacuation
13:34 12 route. We had absolutely no problem evacuating
13:34 13 the immediate area. However, we did exhibit
13:34 14 some traffic gridlock on I-10 and 65, which is
13:34 15 north of the area.
13:34 16 Wouldn't it be nice if the millions of
13:34 17 dollars already wasted on this political
13:34 18 boondoggle had been applied on widening
13:34 19 Highway 87, a project that is really needed.
13:34 20 I appreciate the opportunity extended on me
13:34 21 today --
13:34 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
23 MR. GUICE: -- to make you aware of our
13:34 24 needs, and respectfully ask you, as Nancy Reagan
13:34 25 would say: Just say no, because it's the right
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13:34 1 thing to do.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
13:34 3 MR. GUICE: Thank you.
13:34 4 MR. TAGATZ: My name is Bob Tagatz. I'm a
13:34 5 resident in the panhandle.
13:34 6 Due to the time constraint, I won't read a
13:34 7 letter, but I do have a letter here and
13:35 8 representing John T. Reading, Jr., who wanted to
13:35 9 be here and couldn't.
13:35 10 Mr. Reading is chairman of Metropolitan
13:35 11 Planning Organization, chairman of
13:35 12 Escambia County Commission, chairman of
13:35 13 Escambia County Public Service Commission, and a
13:35 14 member of the West Florida Regional Planning
13:35 15 Board.
13:35 16 I'd like that letter distributed to you.
13:35 17 It basically reinforces a lot of the information
13:35 18 that's already been said.
13:35 19 When I was speaking of the fact that I was
13:35 20 coming here to turn this in and voice our
13:35 21 opposition to the bridge, a group of school
13:35 22 children came and said that they wanted to voice
13:35 23 their opinion, too. That if I was going to the
13:35 24 Governor, then they wanted to be represented as
13:35 25 well.
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13:35 1 So these are a group of school aged
13:35 2 children and their parents. They wanted me to
13:35 3 give it to the Governor, and I assured them that
13:35 4 I would.
13:35 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right, sir.
13:35 6 MR. TAGATZ: They're basically future
13:35 7 people that these are all -- this was collected
13:35 8 at -- future people. No, they're people now,
13:35 9 I'm sorry.
13:35 10 But they're future residents of the area,
13:35 11 they've lived there. This was done as an
13:35 12 Earth Day project, and they wanted their opinion
13:35 13 known as well.
13:35 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
13:36 15 MR. TAGATZ: Thank you.
16 MS. REGALADO: Good afternoon. My name is
17 Nancy Ann Regalado. I'm with the National
18 Audubon Society.
19 I'm here this afternoon speaking for
20 Larry Compton, our southeast regional
21 vice president.
22 I'd just like to read a very short
23 statement prepared by Mr. Thompson.
24 He says: You are being asked to permit
25 what will eventually be a new four-lane highway
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1 the length of Garcon Point with a toll bridge
2 across east Escambia Bay.
3 Audubon has carefully reviewed this
4 proposed project, and we are concerned that one
5 of the -- America's finest examples of unspoiled
6 wet prairies will be destroyed as this highway
7 corridor is constructed. We know some of
8 Garcon's Point, Garcon's wetlands might be
9 protected. But thousands of equally valuable
10 prairie acreage will remain unprotected and open
11 to development.
12 Because Garcon's hydrology is not
13 divisible, secondary development of the
14 unprotected part will degrade the entire unit,
15 including adjacent waters of the Yellow River
16 Marsh Aquatic Preserve.
17 The National Audubon Society urges you to
18 deny this exceedingly unliked bridge and highway
19 project. Garcon Point's fragile wet prairies is
20 a unique natural and national treasure deserving
21 permanent protection.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. FULLER: Governor and Cabinet,
24 Manley Fuller, representing Florida Wildlife
25 Federation.
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1 We believe that approval of this bridge
2 will -- will ultimately represent and -- a
3 stimulus to development in the southern part of
4 the County, and those -- in those low lying
5 wetland areas on the barrier islands.
6 We think it's -- we think it's not good
7 public policy to stimulate development on the --
8 in areas like that. We would respectfully
9 request that you deny the request.
10 Thank you.
11 MR. GUEST: David Guest here, Sierra Club
12 Legal Defense Fund.
13 Let me simply reiterate what my brethren
14 has said. We think this is bad public policy.
15 This is an irreplaceable wetland, there'll be
16 aquatic impacts that are adverse. You can do
17 without it. You can come up with better
18 evacuation routes. We think you shouldn't do
19 it.
20 Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
22 MR. MILLER: I'm David Miller. I'm with
23 Public Financial Management. I've been asked to
24 speak here on behalf of the Authority to address
25 any financial questions with respect to the
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1 bridge.
2 I believe the best way for me to do so
3 would be to briefly overview from the beginning
4 the process of putting a financial plan for
5 this --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: Briefly.
7 MR. MILLER: -- briefly.
8 It has to begin with traffic, and there's
9 been a lot of questions about traffic. The
10 Authority employed URS, which is one of three
11 nationally recognized firms to study the traffic
12 in the area.
13 They set up counting points at Highway 87
14 and 98, at the base of --
15 (Governor Chiles exited the room.)
16 MR. MILLER: -- Pensacola Bridge on
17 Highway 98, and in the vicinity of where the --
18 the proposed bridge will intersect with
19 Highway 98.
20 And they counted traffic, and they
21 researched people driving through. They counted
22 up to 18 percent of the people on any given day
23 that they were out there. They were out there
24 during all the different seasons of the year and
25 during different days of the week to count for
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1 all the fluctuations.
2 And what they determined was that
3 26 percent of the traffic that's coming east and
4 west through that region is, in fact, looking
5 for a north-south route. They're trying to go
6 north to south. The reason they're going east
7 to west is because the highway runs east to
8 west.
9 What they concluded further was that based
10 upon the surveys and where people are coming
11 from and where they're going to, that about
12 30 percent of that 26 percent would use the
13 bridge.
14 Now, if you think about that, what they're
15 roughly saying is that if you build a third
16 north-south corridor, about 30 percent of the
17 traffic that wants to go north-south will,
18 in fact, use that third bridge, a little bit
19 less than one third. Okay. It makes reasonable
20 sense.
21 Again, they are a nationally recognized
22 firm. I've read their report, it seems
23 reasonable to me, and I believe it's a credible
24 report.
25 We took that report to the revenue
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1 projections. We then fit a financial plan to
2 that report.
3 In trying to determine what we thought was
4 a prudent and credible financial plan, we have
5 put together a bond structure that will allow
6 for the projected revenues to be 130 percent of
7 the debt service.
8 So that we have a credible revenue report
9 and we have a financial plan and bond issue that
10 has a 30 percent cushion for the revenues in
11 there, that if the revenues are below
12 projections, you're still making your debt
13 service payments.
14 In addition to that, we have applicable
15 reserve funds, insurance provisions, and other
16 things, all in order to ensure that it's a
17 financially feasible financing, and that the
18 bonds will not be in default.
19 (Governor Chiles entered the room.)
20 MR. MILLER: I'll make myself available for
21 any questions now or later.
22 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Yes, Governor.
24 With regard to the financing. I read
25 the -- the preliminary official statement with
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1 regard to the bond issue from the Bay Bridge
2 Authority.
3 And as I read this -- you tell me if this
4 is correct -- that there is not any pledging of
5 the full faith and credit of the state of
6 Florida, Santa Rosa County, or the Authority, or
7 any other political subdivision thereof; is that
8 correct?
9 MR. MILLER: That's correct.
10 TREASURER NELSON: There is no full faith
11 and credit backing that up.
12 MR. MILLER: None whatsoever.
13 TREASURER NELSON: So -- so what backs up
14 the bonds then is the revenue stream from the
15 cars --
16 MR. MILLER: Correct.
17 TREASURER NELSON: -- that pay the toll.
18 MR. MILLER: Correct.
19 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, what
20 happens if that revenue stream is less than what
21 is projected, and the bonds go into default, who
22 stands behind the default?
23 MR. MILLER: The Authority is behind the
24 default, and the bond holders would have the
25 ability to enter into a lawsuit and try to
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1 obtain whatever remedies that are within the
2 right of the Authority. But the Authority has
3 no taxing right.
4 So they would presumably have a third party
5 assigned by the Court that might take possession
6 of the bridge and collect tolls on their
7 behalf. But they would have no remedy against
8 the state or the Santa Rosa County.
9 TREASURER NELSON: So the only security
10 then for the bonds is the fact that if there
11 were a default, that somebody would take over
12 the bridge and operate the bridge and collect
13 revenues therefrom; is that correct?
14 MR. MILLER: That's correct.
15 TREASURER NELSON: That would be -- is --
16 is the bridge the only asset of the Authority?
17 MR. MILLER: Yes.
18 TREASURER NELSON: There's not an airport
19 or something else like that that's --
20 MR. MILLER: Just the bridge.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Just the bridge.
22 MR. MILLER: Correct.
23 TREASURER NELSON: All right. Now, tell me
24 what your experts have told you about the kind
25 of interest rate that you would have to pay in
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1 order to float a bond issue like this.
2 MR. MILLER: Well, that's -- those experts
3 are me. We're in the business all the time,
4 we've worked on dozens of toll financings in
5 Florida and throughout the country, and hundreds
6 of other municipal financings.
7 As you I'm sure are aware, interest rates
8 are now very low, which is a benefit, they don't
9 have to be as low as they are to make this a
10 feasible project.
11 But we're estimating that in all, in a true
12 interest cost right now would be in the
13 neighborhood of seven-and-a-half percent.
14 TREASURER NELSON: And what kind of rating
15 do you think that these bonds would secure?
16 MR. MILLER: We are in the process of
17 talking with Fisch Investor Service right now,
18 and we are expecting a triple B category, or an
19 investment B category.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Triple B.
21 MR. MILLER: Triple B.
22 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask somebody a
23 technical question?
24 Since the Governor and the Comptroller and
25 I sit as the State Board of Administration, is
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1 there any backup that we have with regard to an
2 issue of bonds such as this?
3 Is there any -- any way that this issue
4 would ultimately come to us?
5 Is there any counsel that could advise us
6 about that?
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: I don't think we're
8 responsible for it.
9 TREASURER NELSON: If --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If it exceeded --
11 Governor, if it exceeded the 1.5 percent
12 over the going interest rate in any particular
13 month, they would have to come to us for an
14 exception. We handled several of them today.
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Other questions?
16 Thank you.
17 MS. DODDS: My name is Michelle Dodds, and
18 I'm a graduate student here at Florida State
19 University.
20 I have been a resident of Santa Rosa County
21 for -- since 1971, and I've been an educator
22 there under Mr. Russell for seven years. And
23 I -- I know that paper that I have done for
24 class has been circulated among you. And so I
25 will not reiterate those points.
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1 What I am here to say is one thing I've
2 learned as a student of urban and regional
3 planning is that when you make decisions, you
4 should take into account the -- the interest of
5 all your citizens.
6 And -- so I'm curious as to why this hasn't
7 been put on a referendum for the citizens of the
8 county.
9 And I'd ask you to please consider the
10 issues mentioned in my paper.
11 Thank you.
12 MS. EZELL: Good afternoon, Governor,
13 members of the Cabinet.
14 I thank you very much for the opportunity
15 to speak to you today in support of the bridge
16 project.
17 My name is Lydia Ezell. I am the Immediate
18 Past Chairman of the Santa Rosa County Board of
19 Commissioners.
20 There's no need to go into any kind of
21 technical talk with you this morning, I believe
22 that every agency involved and every reviewing
23 body regarding this bridge project has submitted
24 to you the necessary documentation and
25 information that you need.
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1 We have the experts who have given their --
2 their findings on this project, and we find from
3 their findings that this is a feasible project.
4 We very much believe that we need this, it's
5 going to be of great benefit to the citizens of
6 Santa Rosa County, as well as anyone else who
7 travels -- chooses to travel through our county.
8 I would like to state one very unique fact
9 regarding this project. And that is that it has
10 the unanimous support of every elected
11 officeholder in the county, from every city,
12 from the county, to the school boards; the
13 unanimous support of every constitutional
14 officeholder in Santa Rosa County.
15 Now, that is very unusual in our county. I
16 don't know how the rest of your counties are.
17 But when you have a project that is supported
18 unanimously by every person elected to represent
19 the people of that county, I can tell you that
20 this is a very supported project. We all
21 understand the need for this bridge.
22 Having been the direct recipient of two
23 hurricanes over the past couple of months has
24 increased my feelings that we need this bridge
25 as a -- as an alternative evacuation route, or
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1 to be used as an evacuation route in the need --
2 if the need is there.
3 And perhaps it wasn't stated in the very
4 beginning that -- that one of the reasons this
5 bridge would be of benefit to our citizens is
6 because we could evacuate the citizens more
7 safely in the event that we need to.
8 But whether or not it was mentioned in the
9 beginning or not, it's very apparent now, having
10 been hit twice head-on by hurricanes.
11 I would also like to say that many of us
12 have spent a great deal of time gathering
13 accurate information to be submitted to this
14 body for review and so that you could base your
15 decision on accurate information. I believe
16 that you have received accurate information.
17 I will -- I would like to have seen the
18 same documentation requested from some of the
19 opponents who have spoken and stated things as
20 if they were fact, when I know very well that
21 they were not fact. If they are fact, I'd like
22 to see the documentation on that side as well.
23 We've spent enormous numbers of hours and
24 time gathering the appropriate information so
25 that you can make a good and sound decision.
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1 And I believe that you will. I believe that you
2 can see through that.
3 I just want to thank you for the
4 opportunity to be here today. We do have
5 tremendous support in our county. And while
6 there is opposition to this project, as there is
7 any project, it is quite limited. The support
8 for this project is quite broad based.
9 Representative -- former Representative and
10 former Speaker of the House, Bo Johnson, was
11 going to be speaking today.
12 Bo, if you --
13 MR. JOHNSON: I'd like to waive my time.
14 The community's done a good job.
15 MS. EZELL: He wishes to waive his time at
16 this moment -- or because he feels we've --
17 we've kind of said it all now.
18 I thank you very much. If any of you have
19 questions of me, I certainly stand ready to
20 answer.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
22 Further questions?
23 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah. Let me --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
25 TREASURER NELSON: Lydia, are you still
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1 chairman?
2 MS. EZELL: I just left. Last meeting we
3 had our organizational -- or reorganizational
4 meeting. So as I said, Immediate Past Chairman.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Let me ask you: From
6 our standpoint of financial responsibility, can
7 you confirm on the record for the Governor and
8 the Cabinet, there is no legal remedy that would
9 cause tax dollars to be used in the event of a
10 revenue shortfall from the tolls?
11 MS. EZELL: From Santa Rosa County -- in
12 terms of Santa Rosa County, financial
13 responsibility, absolutely, I can state that.
14 Without question.
15 TREASURER NELSON: If I --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Are you
17 through?
18 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
19 MS. EZELL: Yes, sir.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How about
21 the State of Florida?
22 MS. EZELL: Well, I'm not an expert on the
23 statutes of the State of Florida. I review them
24 as they apply to an issue that I'm involved
25 with.
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1 So I certainly wouldn't stand here and try
2 to tell you that I know what is written in the
3 Florida Statutes regarding this. I'm afraid
4 that you would have to get that information from
5 someone else.
6 But as far as the County's liability and
7 responsibility financially for this project,
8 there is none.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
10 MS. EZELL: Thank you very much.
11 MS. WETHERELL: General, if you would like,
12 the financial advisor says he can answer that
13 question.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
15 MR. MILLER: The answer is that there are
16 no legal remedies to the State or the County,
17 either one, or any other political body.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Any kind of tax revenue
19 not -- cannot be pledged, such as gas taxes or
20 anything?
21 MR. MILLER: None.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- we've got a
25 recommendation from staff, and so I'd kind of
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1 like to put the Secretary on the spot, if I
2 might --
3 MS. WETHERELL: I'm used to it.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and ask you to
5 speak on behalf of the State, Secretary. I know
6 you're used to it.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Have we finished our --
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir. We've concluded
9 with the speakers.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: When looking at this
11 project, as I know all the members of the
12 State Board have done, a lot of issues we have
13 to take into consideration.
14 But it boiled down ultimately, pro and con
15 today, and you consistently heard a stream
16 relative to three issues: One was need; one was
17 the environmental concerns; and one was the
18 financing that we've heard expressed on a
19 regular basis.
20 I'm going to assume that based on the
21 recommendation of the -- of the staff,
22 Secretary, that having waded through all of the
23 information that's been provided to us, as I'm
24 sure it's been provided to you, and certainly
25 more that's been provided to you and members of
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1 your staff, you feel that there is, (a), a need
2 for that particular bridge, which I would concur
3 goes beyond just a hurricane evacuation route,
4 which I think is incredibly important.
5 But we don't build the bridges just for
6 hurricane evacuation routes. We have to take in
7 considerably more than just an evacuation
8 route. Although I recognize the importance
9 thereof.
10 You obviously take into consideration the
11 environmental impact. And I have received, as I
12 know have all my colleagues, tremendous amounts
13 of information relative to accommodations being
14 made. In the case of this bridge, somebody
15 suggested this may be a model. I'm not an
16 expert on it.
17 But based on the accommodations,
18 environmentally speaking of this particular
19 bridge, it would certainly appear that it's hard
20 to believe anything else could be done in
21 connection with the environmental sensitivity of
22 that particular area in accommodations of the
23 bridge. And I think the financing issues have
24 been thoroughly addressed.
25 So I'm simply going to ask you based on
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1 need, based on environmental issues, and based
2 on finances, are you and yours comfortable with
3 your recommendation, and --
4 MS. WETHERELL: Let me address the
5 financing first. That's really not under our
6 purview, and we really don't have the expertise,
7 nor would ever we pretend to have any --
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Understood.
9 MS. WETHERELL: -- on the --
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And that's -- that's
11 a fair response, yes, ma'am.
12 MS. WETHERELL: In terms of need, the
13 Department of Transportation had the
14 responsibility to be involved in the need
15 determination.
16 And based on the Secretary of
17 Transportation, Ben Watts' findings, we
18 proceeded with the environmental review. And so
19 based on what DOT has -- our sister agency has
20 told us, we proceeded with the regulatory
21 piece.
22 We did not do our own need determination,
23 it's not under our purview. But I was
24 comfortable with what the Department of
25 Transportation had accomplished.
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1 In terms of the environmental review, as
2 you know, this was before our agency as DER, and
3 DNR and DEP for many years, contrary to what --
4 one person said up here and put on the record,
5 there was no pressure from anyone to issue a
6 permit, either for or against.
7 It went through the process, and we were
8 real pleased when, in fact, an environmentalist
9 came forward with the idea of putting the -- the
10 septic system, the sewer line, on the island,
11 which would require hookup instead of -- in lieu
12 of the septic tanks that would normally occur
13 without the sewer line.
14 So it was a -- a long, tedious process.
15 They have met the environmental test. That's
16 why they have the permits. They have complied
17 with all of the environmental requests of this
18 state.
19 We addressed the mitigation, they addressed
20 it well. They addressed the shellfish impacts,
21 they addressed the storm water, they addressed
22 everything that was required of them by Florida
23 laws and rules.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I -- I
25 appreciate your response and sensitivity to
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1 others who have been involved in this.
2 And I would simply suggest, as I looked at
3 all three of those issues, need, environmental
4 impact, and finances, with great red flags on
5 all, as we do all of these projects, I was
6 satisfied by DOT, I was satisfied by the report
7 from your particular department, and have just
8 over the last 48 hours or so become increasingly
9 more comfortable with the financial issues
10 relative to the bridge.
11 So I thank you very much, Secretary, for
12 your --
13 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- response.
15 Thank you, Governor.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
17 Any other questions?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I move staff
19 recommendation.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved, staff
21 recommendations.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: And seconded.
25 So many as favor, signify by saying aye.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: I think we better call
5 the role so --
6 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Commissioner Brogan.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Treasurer Nelson.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
10 MS. WETHERELL: General Butterworth.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Governor Chiles.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Aye.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Commissioner Crawford.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Secretary Mortham.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Comptroller Milligan.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: By your vote, the staff
21 recommendation is approved.
22 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: We would -- we would
24 please ask you if you will continue your
25 conversations out in the hall. We still have a
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1 little business to perform here.
2 Thank you very much.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8 is the termination
4 of a purchase agreement.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9, fifteen purchase
11 agreements within the South Savannas CARL
12 project and a waiver of survey.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. WETHERELL: Item 10 is an option
19 agreement within the Florida First Magnitude
20 Springs CARL project.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 11 is a
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1 purchase agreement for Florida Department of
2 Corrections.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 12 is a
8 University of North Florida joint venture
9 with -- University of North Florida,
10 excuse me -- it's a purchase agreement and an
11 option agreement.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 13 is an Everglades
17 agricultural area lease.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Item 14 is an extension of
23 an Everglades agricultural lease.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 15, we're
4 recommending approval of a settlement agreement.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 16, we're
10 recommending acceptance of a status report. As
11 each of you know, in this report, the Department
12 has concluded that the dikes are below the
13 ordinary high water line, that this is
14 State-owned sovereign land.
15 And we think the appropriate course of
16 action is to submit this for legal and equitable
17 questions to the Circuit Court. There is a
18 belief that -- in our agency that these dikes
19 should be removed, and that the floodplain area
20 be returned to its more normal condition.
21 There are a number of speakers on this
22 item. Pete Mallison is here for any level of
23 detail that you would like to have on the
24 history of this, and the Board of Trustees'
25 involvement since 1991 in this issue.
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1 We've also tried to recreate the record
2 prior to the Board of Trustees' involvement
3 prior to that.
4 But if you'd like, we can just start with
5 the proponents of this. And --
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: What is our time, do we
7 have time limitations on this?
8 MS. WETHERELL: Well, we have fifteen
9 speakers, Governor. Excuse me. Thirteen
10 speakers. The applicant may need to take a
11 minute to --
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let's say
13 15 minutes to the side.
14 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
15 Fifteen minutes --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Can I ask a question,
17 Governor, before we -- before we assign a time?
18 How many of those speakers are proponents,
19 and how many are opponents, Secretary?
20 MS. WETHERELL: Thirteen are proponents,
21 and two are opponents.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Proponents of --
23 MS. WETHERELL: The opponents are the
24 applicants.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, let's -- again, I
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1 was just going to mention that.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yeah.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: All right. Let me
4 try something here, since we've had a long day,
5 and we've got some other things I know we all
6 have to do.
7 I think the -- there's some good issues
8 been raised on both sides of this argument.
9 I think the Attorney General has some concerns
10 about the ownership of the land. I think the
11 owner has some legitimate arguments about
12 fairness as things been applied to him.
13 I would -- let me just go ahead and make
14 this suggestion, let's -- if the issue is around
15 the ownership, maybe we just have to go ahead
16 and decide -- which I think that's what you were
17 saying --
18 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- in the
20 beginning.
21 I would offer the motion that such legal
22 proceedings that are appropriate be filed on
23 behalf of the Trustees in the Circuit Court of
24 Brevard County to determine the ownership once
25 and -- and for all of the disputed lands within
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1 the Sabal Hammock's Planned Unit Development.
2 And let's let the courts tell us who owns
3 the land, and then we can move forward after we
4 know.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If you want
7 to do it --
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: That was your --
10 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Do you want to move
12 that?
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'll go ahead and
14 offer that motion.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'll second it.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
17 seconded.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Since --
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Anybody --
20 TREASURER NELSON: Since I was out of the
21 room, would you just restate your motion?
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay. I move that
23 such legal proceedings as are appropriate be
24 filed on behalf of the Trustees of the
25 Circuit Court of Brevard County to determine the
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1 ownership once and for all of the disputed lands
2 within the Sabal Hammock's Planned Unit
3 Development.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And we'll let the
6 Court decide who owns it, then they can put that
7 issue behind us. I think that's what the
8 Secretary was recommending.
9 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: We have a motion and a
11 second --
12 MS. WETHERELL: Do you wish to hear from --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Does anybody --
14 MS. WETHERELL: -- the landowner --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Why don't we adopt it,
16 and then see if anybody wants to speak.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's a
18 pretty good motion, Governor --
19 If that's what it takes case.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All in favor, signify by
21 saying aye.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Aye.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
2 Now --
3 MS. WETHERELL: Ralph Haben and Bram Canter
4 are here representing the landowner.
5 MR. HABEN: We concur with the motion,
6 Governor.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
8 MS. WETHERELL: And we had a number of
9 people who were proponents, but I think they'd
10 probably set aside --
11 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: We concur with the
12 motion.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We haven't
14 heard from Charles Lee in a long time,
15 Governor. You need to stand up --
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: I move we adjourn.
17 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
18 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
19 *
20 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
21 2:04 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 238 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 26TH day of DECEMBER, 1995.
17
18
19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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