Representing:
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
OFFICE OF INSURANCE
REGULATION
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S
AFFAIRS
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
STATE BOARD OF
ADMINISTRATION
The above agencies came to be heard
before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding, in
the
Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee,
Florida,
on the 9th day of November, 2004, commencing at
approximately
9:25 a.m.
Reported by:
KRISTEN L.
BENTLEY
Certified Court Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
2894 REMINGTON GREEN
LANE
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308 (850)878-2221
.
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB
BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H.
BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
CHARLIE
CRIST
Attorney General
TOM
GALLAGHER
Chief Financial Officer
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
3
I N D E X
DIVISION OF BOND
FINANCE
(Presented by Ben Watkins)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
5
2
Approved
5
3
Approved
6
4
Approved
6
5
Approved
7
6
Approved
7
OFFICE OF INSURANCE
REGULATION
(Presented by KEVIN MCCARTY)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
9
2
Approved
9
3
Approved
10
DEPARTMENT OF
REVENUE
(Presented by JAMES ZINGALE)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
17
2
Approved
18
DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S
AFFAIRS
(Presented by ROCKY McPHERSON)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
20
2
Approved
20
3
Approved
21
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
4
I N D E X (Continued)
DEPARTMENT OF LAW
ENFORCEMENT
(Presented by GUY TUNNELL)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
25
2
Approved
26
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST
FUND
(Presented by COLLEEN CASTILLE)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Presentation
2
Denied
87
STATE BOARD OF
ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by COLEMAN STIPANOVICH)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
89
2
Approved
89
3
Approved
89
4
Approved
90
5
Approved
90
6
Approved
91
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 11/9/04
5
1
PROCEEDINGS
2
THE GOVERNOR: The next cabinet meeting is Tuesday,
3 November 23rd.
4
Division of Bond Finance. Ben.
5
MR. WATKINS: Good morning, Governor.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
7
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 1 is approval of the minutes
8 of the September 21st
meeting.
9
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
10
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a second?
11
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
12
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
13 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
14
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 2 does two things. It
15 authorizes a new
money issue and a refunding. The first
16 piece is
authorization of up to 36 and a half million
17 dollars of housing
facility revenue bonds for Florida
18 International
University. And the second piece is a 24
19 and a half million
dollar refunding of existing housing
20 facility revenue
bonds.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
22
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
24 objection, the item
passes.
25
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 3 is also a
multi-part
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 11/9/04
6
1 resolution. Part
1 is a resolution authorizing the
2 issuance and
competitive sale of up to $13,550,000 of
3 parking facility
revenue bonds for the University of
4 Central Florida.
And the second part of that is
5 authorizing of
refinancing of up to $5,350,000 of existing
6 outstanding parking
facility revenue bonds.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
8
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
10 objection, the item
passes.
11
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 4 is a report of award on the
12 competitive sale of
$200 million in PECO bonds. The bonds
13 were awarded to the
low bidder at a true interest cost of
14 4.55 percent.
15
CFO GALLAGHER: I have true interest at 4.5827.
16
MR. WATKINS: I rounded it off, Treasurer.
17
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
18
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
19
MR. WATKINS: Item No. --
20
THE GOVERNOR: Hang on a second. There's a motion
21 and a second.
Without objection, the item passes. Excuse
22 me.
23
MR. WATKINS: Sorry.
24
Item No. 5 is a report of award on the competitive
25 sale of $16 million
of parking facility revenue bonds
for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 11/9/04
7
1 the University of
South Florida. The bonds were awarded
2 to the low bidder at a
true interest cost of approximately
3 3.74 percent.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
5
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, the item
passes.
8
MR. WATKINS: And Item No. 6 is a report of award on
9 the competitive sale
of $171,695,000 of PECO refunding
10 bonds. The
bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a true
11 interest cost of
approximately 4.09 percent, resulting in
12 debt service savings
to the State of $23.4 million on a
13 gross basis or on a
present value basis, approximately
14 $15.7 million.
15
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.
16
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
17
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
18 objection, the item
passes.
19
Thank you, Ben. And thank you, by the way, for your
20 expertise and hard
work on the Accelerate projects. We
21 really appreciated
your input. I think we've structured
22 something that will
accelerate these projects but not at
23 the expense of the
taxpayers in south Florida. Appreciate
24 what you did.
25
MR. WATKINS: It was an honor and a privilege and
we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 11/9/04
8
1 look forward to
working with the South Florida Water
2 Management District to
move forward in implementing --
3 developing and
implementing that financing program.
4
THE GOVERNOR: They may not be as much looking
5 forward to it as we
are.
6
MR. WATKINS: Right. I understand.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
9
1
THE GOVERNOR: Financial Services Commission.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Office of Insurance Regulation.
4
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
5
THE GOVERNOR: Hello, Kevin.
6
There's a motion and a second. Without objection,
7 Item 1 passes.
8
MR. McCARTY: Item 2 and 3 involve approval of the
9 NAIC manuals.
Item 2, the Office is requesting approval
10 of adoption of the
2004 National Association of Insurance
11 Commissioners' annual
and quarterly reporting required.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
13
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
14
MR. McCARTY: Item 3 --
15
THE GOVERNOR: Hang on. There's a motion and a
16 second. Without
objection, the item passes. You guys are
17 in a hurry to go back
to work. That's good.
18
MR. McCARTY: Well, we got a lot of work to do.
19
THE GOVERNOR: Yes, you do.
20
MR. McCARTY: Yes, sir. The Office is requesting
21 approval of the
adoption of the 2004 NAIC financial
22 examiner's
handbook.
23
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
24
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
25
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a
second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
10
1 Without objection, the
item passes.
2
Kevin --
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Um.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Yes, Treasurer?
5
CFO GALLAGHER: I was probably going to do what
6 you're probably going
to do.
7
THE GOVERNOR: Ask the same question? Go ahead.
8
CFO GALLAGHER: Feel free.
9
THE GOVERNOR: No, go ahead.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: I have two, actually. One, I'd like
11 to have a discussion
on the issue that's gotten a lot of
12 news lately in
brokerages and kickbacks to those
13 brokerages from
insurance companies. And we have a
14 working group working
on that and we've also issued a
15 subpoena because we
have -- the State of Florida has
16 contracted with a
broker to get us our coverage for our
17 property and casualty
insurance. That broker is Marsh &
18 McLennan and they
charged us a fee of $295,000 which we
19 agreed to pay.
And we basically had a clause in there
20 that said that they
would not receive any money from
21 insurance
companies.
22
And there was another clause in that contract that
23 said usual and
customary was okay, whatever that is. I
24 guess they are going
to maybe call kickback commissions or
25 extra commissions or
something from insurance
companies
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
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FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
11
1 that. But we're
about to find out because we've
2 subpoenaed that
information. But I think it would be good
3 to give us an overview
of sort of what you see. Other
4 than that's an issue
that I'm personally responsible for,
5 I'm wondering about
other businesses in Florida that have
6 used brokers to buy
large policies in the --
7
MR. McCARTY: Well, in the subject of Marsh &
8 McLennan is the broker
we've contracted in Florida which
9 also the subject of
Spitzer investigation which has filed
10 a civil suit alleging
bid rigging and unlawful contingency
11 fees and unlawful
steering of business to affiliated
12 parties and
companies.
13
There are a number of investigations going on in the
14 state of Florida
right now. There is a task force that
15 you appointed
recently looking into that. Our office is
16 working with the
Attorney General's office on the task
17 force as well
investigating the brokers. The Attorney
18 General has issued
ten orders. Ten subpoenas. We're
19 working on doing some
joint subpoenas in the next several
20 days with respect to
licensees in the Office of Insurance
21 Regulation. In
the broad context, I think it's important
22 for us to ensure with
regard to the State risk management
23 as well as all other
businesses in Florida that those
24 transactions are done
as transparent as possible. And if
25 there is any
activity, unlawful, criminal or
civil
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
12
1 liability, we are
certainly going to ferret out that and
2 pursue that and I
think we're very proud to be working
3 with both the CFO and
the Attorney General in coordinating
4 these efforts.
There's different efforts that are being
5 coordinated because
different authorities, and we need to
6 issue separate
subpoenas to make sure they are legally
7 correct. So
that's why coordination is critically
8 important on this
matter.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Yes, General.
10
GENERAL CRIST: Governor, I wanted to thank Kevin for
11 working so well with
our antitrust department. I want to
12 thank the CFO for his
assistance in helping to hopefully
13 making sure that the
consumers of the state of Florida are
14 protected in this
scenario. And I wanted to make it
15 clear, we're not
alleging anything with the issuance of
16 our subpoenas.
We're merely in the discovery phase and
17 have received a
complaint from a consumer in Florida and
18 as a result, issued
subpoenas to try to make sure they're
19 being dealt with in a
fair and appropriate fashion. But
20 thank you very much
for your work. Thank you, Treasurer.
21
MR. McCARTY: Ironically, the Spitzer investigation
22 which was originated
in New York, the victims, one of the
23 victims, is a Florida
company. So I think it's prudent
24 for us to be
expanding our -- again, there's no
25 allegations in the
instant case. We just want to
make
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
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FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
13
1 sure there's no
improprieties going on with regard to
2 Florida consumers.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Treasurer, you have another
4 question?
5
CFO GALLAGHER: I have another one.
6
I want to bring to light to the commission that we,
7 along with Kevin,
primarily Kevin, but we authorized the
8 issuance of emergency
orders for hurricane victims that
9 mandated that
companies not non renew which is a double
10 negative or that they
must renew policyholders through
11 hurricane
season. One of the reason for those is that if
12 you have a damaged
home, obviously you're not renewed by
13 your company, they
are going to still pay the claim, and
14 they're required to
do that. But it's impossible for you
15 to get insurance from
someone else on a damaged home.
16 Because at that
point, you know, somebody would be taking
17 on a liability they
don't want. They inspect and they're
18 not going to insure a
home that's not completed.
19
So I think that we should look at and have Kevin
20 bring back to the
next meeting an answer to those people
21 that have -- because
of the time it's taken adjusters to
22 get there, the time
it's going to take for individuals to
23 get contractors to do
the work on their homes, this is
24 going to be an
extended period of time that they are not
25 going to be able to
get coverage. And their policy
may
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
14
1 run out where they are
and our emergency rules that we
2 have are going to
expire. And so we may even need a
3 legislative fix on
this, I don't know. But I would like,
4 one, to at least have
notice that at the next cabinet
5 meeting I think we may
want to extend the time on at least
6 damaged homes, if not
others, and have Kevin get back to
7 us on his
recommendations on a new emergency rule that
8 will cover damaged
homes or some other solution to this
9 and maybe it will
require special session legislation, I
10 don't know. But
I think Kevin could give us some ideas.
11 If we bring it up
today, that gives notice. It could be
12 on the agenda and a
solution can be brought up before the
13 expiration of the
existing rules.
14
THE GOVERNOR: You-all good to go on that?
15
GENERAL CRIST: (Nods affirmatively.)
16
THE GOVERNOR: I think it would be a good idea also,
17 if there is a
requirement for special session, the sooner
18 we can get that
done. If you -- in the interim between
19 now and two weeks
from now, if your office concludes that
20 we need to have some
statutory change, we need to know
21 about it pretty quick
because we're trying to finalize the
22 ground rules of the
session shortly after the
23 organizational
meeting which will be next week, right?
24
CFO GALLAGHER: Right.
25
THE GOVERNOR: Next Tuesday and Wednesday. So if
you
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
15
1 could do that, that
would be wonderful.
2
Kevin, how are we doing on the --
3
CFO GALLAGHER: By the way, our meeting is
4 November 23rd so we're
actually skipping really two weeks.
5
THE GOVERNOR: That's about right. That's two weeks,
6 isn't it?
7
Kevin, how are we doing on the adjusters getting out
8 to see people?
9
MR. McCARTY: So far it appears as though the
10 complaints that have
been registered with Treasurer
11 Gallagher's
department have declined. We have been in
12 contact with most of
the major companies and they have
13 indicated to us that
they are going to certainly meet the
14 standards established
by the Financial Services Commission
15 in our last
meeting.
16
There -- we still have pockets of companies which we
17 are pleased to report
is a small number of companies that
18 are still struggling
with regard to getting the adjusters
19 out to meet the
minimum standards that we've established.
20 As I mentioned to you
before, we have a program that we
21 have put together in
conjunction with Treasurer Gallagher
22 to put the resources
together with those companies that
23 have not been able to
get adequate number of adjusters.
24 We have been able to
place some adjusters in some of those
25 companies and we
continue to monitor them and
augment
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 11/9/04
16
1 their services to the
best of our abilities. But pleased
2 to report that we
believe that most companies are going to
3 be able to file in
compliance with the emergency rule.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: And we are working on a Web site
5 where adjusters that
have capacity can put their name down
6 and companies that are
looking for capacity can get to
7 those adjusters and
find the people they need. So we're
8 sort of acting as a
--
9
MR. McCARTY: In our next cabinet meeting I'll be
10 able to also give you
an aging report that breaks down 30,
11 60, 90 days out as to
each company.
12
THE GOVERNOR: But by the next cabinet meeting
13 wouldn't we have
gotten to the -- wasn't it the 30 day?
14
CFO GALLAGHER: The last hurricane is December 8th.
15
MR. McCARTY: Right. December 8th. But the first
16 one is November
20th. You'll have the certification
17 November 22nd for
November 23rd.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Any other questions or
19 comments? (No
response.) Thank you, Kevin.
20
MR. McCARTY: Thank you, Governor, members.
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 11/9/04
17
1
THE GOVERNOR: Department of Revenue.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
5 Without objection,
Item 1 passes. Good morning, Jim.
6
DR. ZINGALE: Good morning. The second item is a
7 proposed final order,
HAAS Publishing. Last cabinet
8 meeting the cabinet
deferred this issue, encouraging the
9 Department and the
taxpayer to try to come up with a
10 settlement.
Last Friday -- review of the quick numbers.
11 Total assessment, not
counting the penalty that was
12 already compromised,
992,000, 562,000 in tax; 430,000 in
13 interest.
14
The taxpayer, last Friday, offered 325,000 in tax,
15 substantially less
than the tax due. We waived 430 -- we
16 offered a waiver of
$430,000 in interest. That would put
17 the taxpayer
basically only at the tax position, would
18 leave the taxpayer
where most other leases are, that all
19 other leases are,
that have these same circumstances.
20 Taxpayer came back
this morning and offered still less
21 than the tax due,
425,000, wants to make it sure that at
22 least that number
doesn't imply that they believe there is
23 any liability
due.
24
Taxpayer has the right after this order, if it's
25 approved, to go to
district court. So we are less
than
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 11/9/04
18
1 50 percent of the
original assessment. Tried to get a
2 settlement. Can
still settle up to the district court
3 hearing. But
with your permission, we would like to go
4 forward with the final
order.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Let me just make this clear so that
6 everybody understands
what it is, including the taxpayers'
7 counsel who is
here. Today they can pay $552,000 which
8 is --
9
DR. ZINGALE: Tax.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: -- tax only. After this board takes
11 a motion, which I
think it will, they are back at the
12 552,000 plus the
430,000 which the ALJ said and that is
13 what goes to circuit
court if they choose to take it or
14 they can pay the
$982,000.
15
DR. ZINGALE: We can still settle between now and
16 that district
court. There is still an opportunity if
17 they come back and
choose to want to pay just tax that we
18 can accept that.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Until the district court starts --
20
DR. ZINGALE: Absolutely.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. In that case, I move to
22 approve Item 2.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a second?
24
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'll second.
25
THE GOVERNOR: There is a motion and a second.
All
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 11/9/04
19
1 in favor say aye.
2
(Aye.)
3
All opposed?
4
(No response.)
5
DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S AFFAIRS - 11/9/04
20
1
THE GOVERNOR: Department of Veteran's Affairs.
2
MR. McPHERSON: Good morning again, Governor. Item 1
3 is the approval of our
minutes from previous session.
4
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
7 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
8
MR. McPHERSON: Thank you, sir. Item 2 is approval
9 of quarterly reports
for the Department recommending
10 acceptance.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
12
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
14 Without objection,
Item 2 passes.
15
MR. McPHERSON: Sir, Item 3, within the material
16 before you, is the
FDBA budget proposal, legislative
17 budget request for
our budget for fiscal year '05/'06. It
18 is essentially a
continuation budget with approximately
19 $50 million. It
has several small items requesting
20 additional funds for
necessities required for enhancement
21 and outreach
activities, needed equipment, and they are
22 all primarily trust
fund issues.
23
Since submitting this in September, we have continued
24 to work with
OPB. There are two issues. Senate Bill
25 12-02 staffing is one
that will be additive to the
request
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERAN'S AFFAIRS - 11/9/04
21
1 and it will depend, of
course, on legislative action
2 regarding staffing for
Senate Bill 12-02 during the next
3 session. And
another item we're working with OPB on is
4 the architectural
engineering funding for state veteran's
5 nursing home No.
7.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
7
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
8
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. All in
9 favor say aye.
10
(Aye.)
11
I abstain so that I can submit my own budget to the
12 Legislature.
13
MR. McPHERSON: Yes, sir.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Thanks, Rocky.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
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FLORIDA DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT - 11/9/04
22
1
THE GOVERNOR: Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
2
MR. TUNNELL: Good morning, Governor, members of the
3 cabinet.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
5
MR. TUNNELL: FDLE has two items on the agenda this
6 morning. The
first is our first quarter performance
7 report for the period
ending September 30th. Our
8 contracts, agreements
and purchases over $100,000 for the
9 same period. As
you-all know, hurricanes have been our
10 priority this past
quarter. I know that like me, each of
11 you are very proud of
the way Florida's first responders
12 worked together to
come to the aid of the impacted areas
13 within our state.
14
On our performance report overall, we stayed on track
15 in our information
and professionalism program areas. But
16 obviously because of
the impact of the storms, our
17 investigative
measures were greatly affected. FDLE, as
18 you know, leads the
ESF or emergency services function 16
19 which is responsible
for coordinating the State's law
20 enforcement
resources. We had some 6,000 plus officers,
21 state officers, that
responded to the hurricanes during
22 these past several
months, executing over 300 missions.
23
In addition, 422 of FDLE's own members worked in
24 excess of 83,000
hours during the storm season assisting
25 local law enforcement
with search and rescue
efforts,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
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FLORIDA DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT - 11/9/04
23
1 security, traffic
control escorts for fuel and other
2 supplies relative to
storm recovery. Our crime lab
3 services were also
very adversely affected. Labs were
4 nonoperational for a
total of some 36 days where our
5 technicians and
scientists were busy taking down
6 instruments,
protecting against possible water and
7 electrical damage
during the storms, unpacking, bringing
8 back online, checking
for damage, et cetera, et cetera.
9 And you may have heard
that our Pensacola facility was
10 very severely damaged
because of Hurricane Ivan. The lab
11 has been relocated to
temporary facilities at the Escambia
12 County sheriff's
office. And they were still doing very
13 limited casework
involving chemistry, latents, firearms,
14 crime scene assists,
having to ship a number of their more
15 involved examinations
to other labs across the state. We
16 expect them to be
some six months before they're back in
17 full operation.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Guy, are you going to rebuild in the
19 building or take
advantage of the opportunity to
20 modernize?
21
MR. TUNNELL: Yes. Yes, sir, on both counts. We're
22 in the process of
working with DMS to try to find another
23 facility that was
much more agreeable with our operational
24 needs.
25
THE GOVERNOR: That's probably one of the
oldest
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1 state buildings in the
--
2
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, sir, has to be. It's an old
3 elementary school.
4
THE GOVERNOR: What's the name of it?
5
CFO GALLAGHER: It's an old school, isn't it?
6
MR. TUNNELL: It's an old school. I can't remember
7 the name of the
school.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Really old.
9
MR. TUNNELL: Very, very old. I think it was built,
10 I heard, 1922 maybe;
'21, '22 and it's a beautiful
11 building but it's
just not very --
12
THE GOVERNOR: Not so lovely right now.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Doesn't have any roof on it now, does
14 it?
15
MR. TUNNELL: No, sir, it doesn't. It doesn't have
16 much for all three
floors. I saw some photographs the
17 other day and it's
being totally rebuilt from inside out.
18 But they say they are
going to have it back running in six
19 months. So
we'll see.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Good.
21
MR. TUNNELL: We hope so. Again, overall, we haven't
22 worked the volume of
cases that we would normally expect
23 to be able to because
of the storms either in our
24 laboratory
environment or in our field investigations. So
25 we've done very well
with the state that we're in,
in
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1 summation.
2
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
5
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Item 1
6 passes without
objection.
7
MR. TUNNELL: Thank you. The second item is a
8 submission of 13 rules
for final adoption in Title 11 of
9 the Florida
Administrative Code. These rules are all in
10 FDLE's alcohol breath
test program. The bulk of them are
11 a result of our
transition to new and more sophisticated
12 alcohol breath
testing equipment. The new equipment
13 that's been purchased
will replace equipment that is
14 approaching 15 years
in age. Certainly it's not the best
15 technology that's out
there available. This new equipment
16 that's been selected
is called the Intoxilyzer 8000.
17
THE GOVERNOR: Is that better than the 7000?
18
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, sir. Actually, we're using 5000,
19 so it's a big
jump.
20
THE GOVERNOR: It's a four-generation jump.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: I notice one of these rules, 8.0036,
22 approval of dry gas
standards source. What in the world
23 is alcohol dry gas
standards?
24
THE GOVERNOR: That's a tough question.
25
MR. TUNNELL: That's a tough question. Is that
a
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1 trick question,
Treasurer?
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, you know, I'm not trying to
3 embarrass
anybody. I have no idea what it is. Maybe you
4 can just --
5
THE GOVERNOR: Guy, just make up something. We'll
6 all nod our heads.
7
(Laughter.)
8
MR. TUNNELL: According to my notes, this rule
9 revision updates the
approval process for alcohol dry gas
10 standards as -- by
specifying industry criteria and
11 deleting unnecessary
provisions, quote, unquote. Does
12 that help?
13
CFO GALLAGHER: That's exactly what my notes say.
14 You know, I still
don't know what dry gas --
15
MR. TUNNELL: I thought might sound familiar.
16
THE GOVERNOR: Try this answer. I'll get back to
17 you, Treasurer.
18
MR. TUNNELL: I used that yesterday.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
20
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
21
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
22 Without objection,
Item 2 passes. Thank you.
23
MR. TUNNELL: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
24
25
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Board of Trustees.
2
MS. CASTILLE: Good morning, Governor, members of the
3 cabinet.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning, Colleen.
5
MS. CASTILLE: Thank you. We only have two items
6 before you today,
Governor, and members of the cabinet,
7 but important items
nonetheless. Both are important
8 policy issues.
9
We have a report on the -- on what we're doing with
10 our oceans initiative
which, thank you for your support,
11 Governor, during the
legislative session. We initiated
12 our initiative during
the legislative session and got the
13 support of the
Legislature for the first million dollars
14 of research and
education. The impetus for this was the
15 U.S. commission on
ocean policy that has been gathering
16 data nationwide for
the last two years. And they had
17 issued their draft
policy recommendations back in the
18 April time
frame. Florida was the first out of the shoot
19 to build on some of
their recommendations and to formalize
20 an initiative of our
own. We also initiated two other
21 items of partnership
with the other gulf states as well as
22 the country of
Mexico.
23
On the U.S. ocean commission report, which finalized
24 its recommendations
on September 20th of 2004, the key
25 recommendations, and
there were over 200
recommendations,
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1 but the key
recommendations were very similar to the way
2 that we manage -- that
we have begun to manage our waters.
3 The ecosystem-based
approach, which we both make a land
4 and sea connection
with, emphasis on regional management
5 which we have with our
coastal and aquatic managed areas
6 and initial -- another
200 recommendations.
7
But let me first give you a bit of why it's
8 important, a bit of
information as to why it's important.
9 For the U.S., the
coastal marine -- the ocean is a large
10 part of our nation's
economy. It's $54 billion in goods
11 and services.
30 billion to the U.S. economy through
12 recreational
fishing. It attracts 180 million Americans
13 each year.
Travel and tourism is the nation's largest
14 employer and the
second largest contributor to the gross
15 domestic
product. It generates more than $700 billion
16 annually.
17
Next slide. For Florida's ocean economy, the
18 $53 billion and more
than 700 jobs that are generated from
19 tourism are largely
dependent on our coastal beaches and
20 shores. The
recreational commercial fishing, thank you,
21 Governor, and Fish
and Wildlife Conservation Commission,
22 Florida is the
world's fishing capital. We generate
23 $6.6 billion for
Florida's economy with commercial and
24 recreational
fishing. Recreational boating contributes
25 14.6 billion.
So for a total of $74 billion to
Florida's
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1 economy, our oceans
are an important element to protect.
2
For 77 percent of Florida's residents live in coastal
3 counties. 75
percent of both gross retail sales and
4 taxable retail sales
occur in the coastal counties. For
5 those counties in
Florida that have reefs, the reefs
6 themself have a
particular impact to our economy, positive
7 impact. We have
--
8
THE GOVERNOR: 36,000 jobs in Broward County because
9 of the reefs?
10
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir. There is a tremendous
11 amount of tourism
that is associated with that. They have
12 dive shops, they have
boating shops, they've got ships
13 that take folks out
there. We got these from Fish and
14 Wildlife Conservation
Commission. Our coastal
15 development, Florida
is a great place to live.
16 Development densities
show it. If you look at this slide,
17 the darker the
colors, the denser the development. In the
18 most southeastern
counties and Hillsborough, Pinellas, and
19 a little bit up the
northeast coast, you'll notice that
20 there are 300 to
299.9 persons per square mile. So most
21 of our population is
in our coastal areas which indicates
22 its attraction.
23
Our ocean resources, we've got 1300 miles of
24 shoreline along our
coasts. We've got 6 million acres of
25 submerged land and we
have 2.66 million acres of
sea
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1 grasses. Our sea
grasses are beginning -- well, let me
2 give you a little bit
more about the Florida loop current.
3 And why it's
important, not just for us, to protect our
4 resources here but for
everyone else.
5
The Florida loop current, which is what you see in
6 the Gulf of Mexico and
moves up into the Gulf Stream on
7 the right side with
the dark red, the triangles in there
8 are the flow of the
current. And you'll note that we are
9 not alone in our -- in
our existence with the Gulf of
10 Mexico. But
just north of this loop current is where what
11 they have called the
dead zone from the Mississippi River,
12 is in that highly
mixing -- high mixing zone north of the
13 loop. So as it
mixes, it mixes in some of those nutrients
14 and brings them into
the loop through our --
15
THE GOVERNOR: So are you telling me that we're
16 spending $8 and a
half billion to clean up the Everglades
17 to stop the
phosphorus from coming down to the Everglades
18 and it might not
matter?
19
MS. CASTILLE: No, I'm not telling you that. It
20 matters completely
because Florida Bay, which is protected
21 from much of that
current by the Keys, is completely
22 dependent upon the
Everglades. And Florida Bay is, of
23 course, connected to
the Ten Thousand Islands --
24
THE GOVERNOR: So you don't think the nutrients make
25 it into the
--
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1
MS. CASTILLE: There is -- the science is not decided
2 on that yet.
That is one -- that is -- there are numerous
3 institutes that are
studying whether some of the red tide,
4 some of the black tide
that we've seen, are associated
5 with nutrients that
are coming from the middle of the Gulf
6 or whether they are
coming from our shores. So the jury
7 is still out on
that.
8
THE GOVERNOR: When will the jury convene and have a
9 decision?
10
(Laughter.)
11
MS. CASTILLE: I will tell you a little bit about
12 what we're doing with
our oceans initiatives to get more
13 of this
information.
14
CFO GALLAGHER: Before you get to this next one.
15
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: The colors are speed or temperature?
17
MS. CASTILLE: The colors are temperature. And the
18 arrows are
direction.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: I figured that part. What I'm
20 looking at it's hard
for me to comprehend what would make
21 the Gulf Stream get
so warm over on the east coast of
22 Florida but yet it's
not out there in the Gulf of Mexico
23 and it sort of cools
down. What heats it up? Shallowness
24 or something? I
know it's not very shallow.
25
MS. CASTILLE: I never asked that question when
I
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1 learned about this in
science class, about what made it
2 warm.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: So you're sure it's temperature and
4 not speed?
5
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir. I am absolutely sure it's
6 temperature.
7
THE GOVERNOR: The answer is, Treasurer, I don't
8 know, but I'll get
back to you.
9
MS. CASTILLE: No, I do know that that is
10 temperature. I
just don't know what makes it that.
11
THE GOVERNOR: That's the question you could get back
12 to all of us.
That's a good question.
13
MS. CASTILLE: All right. The next slide is the
14 biodiversity.
You've heard, Governor, in some of the
15 speeches that I've
attended with you and spoken with you
16 that the biodiversity
of our coastline is -- where the
17 integration of the
upland and the coast is where some of
18 our highest diversity
is. It is also, in some of our
19 south coast area
there where we've got the reefs, the only
20 reefs that we have in
North America. So you'll see the
21 highest biodiversity
is about from, I think, Brevard
22 County on around to
Collier and Lee Counties. Also, a
23 little bit north of
Cuba as well.
24
The currents are what provide Florida with its
25 richest marine
biodiversity and it's that warm
temperature
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1 that supports
it. We do have some bad news and so we do
2 have challenges.
The challenges that we have before us
3 are some of the ships
and pollution that are taking a toll
4 on our coral
reefs. We just recently had another ship
5 that hit some of the
reefs off of Broward County.
6
Sewage spills -- yes, sir.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: Colleen, I hate to do this to you. I
8 want to go back
again. And I'd like you to tell me what a
9 tetrapod is.
10
MS. CASTILLE: I can tell you what a copepod is. I
11 don't know what a
tetrapod is.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: -- (inaudible) invertebrates, fishes
13 and tetrapods.
I don't know what it means.
14
MS. CASTILLE: Copepod is -- I don't know what a
15 tetrapod is.
But a copepod is actually what we have. We
16 have two things that
tell you the health of a waterway.
17 For freshwater, it's
a polycyte and for saltwater it's a
18 copepod.
19
THE GOVERNOR: Very impressive. But the answer is,
20 Treasurer, I don't
know what the answer is --
21
MS. CASTILLE: I don't know what a tetrapod is.
22
THE GOVERNOR: -- but I'll get back to you with the
23 answer.
24
MS. CASTILLE: But I'll get back to you.
25
(Laughter.)
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Why is that so hard?
2
MS. CASTILLE: All of the secretaries have that
3 problem. So we
have some challenges. Sewage spills are
4 quite frequent.
We have aging infrastructure in a lot of
5 our older communities
and we've -- as you know, what we've
6 done with the Keys,
Key West, we've completely replaced
7 the sewage system
there. We're looking at Miami-Dade
8 who's trying to
upgrade their sewer system. We still have
9 ocean outfalls in our
waterways. We are improving the
10 level of treatment
for those ocean outfalls but it is our
11 goal in our strategic
plan, Governor, if you recall, to
12 eliminate those ocean
outfalls in the next ten years.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Many years ago, there was this study
14 by this MINSA group
that said that ocean outfalls are okay
15 as long as you take
them way out and go way deep. Is that
16 proven not true or
does it still got a shot?
17
MS. CASTILLE: Well, that would be following the
18 philosophy of the
solution to pollution is dilution which
19 is --
20
CFO GALLAGHER: I like the poem.
21
MS. CASTILLE: Which Dionna taught me that. But we
22 try to get away from
that but we have not gotten to that
23 point in our -- in
our technology where we can have
24 absolutely harmless
effluent from our outfalls.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: So your solution to pollution
is
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1 tertiary
treatment?
2
MS. CASTILLE: That would be one. It's more
3 expensive.
Tertiary treatment is more expensive.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay.
5
MS. CASTILLE: Again, we have beach closings.
6 Recently, it was
reported that our beach closing has
7 increased. A
two-fold reason for that. We are testing
8 more. We've been
required under the Clean Water Act to
9 test our beaches, so
we are -- the Department of Health
10 has increased its
testing locations and frequency. So we
11 have been able to
find that those near shore waters are
12 frequently being
found with high nutrient levels. And
13 I'll expand upon that
in a little bit.
14
EPA released a coastal condition report. In this
15 slide what you see is
-- you see on the bottom left-hand
16 corner the ecological
elements that are reviewed. On the
17 right-hand side are
the outcome for each of these. If you
18 look on the southeast
coast of the United States, there
19 are more of these
elements in the poor category than there
20 are in the other
categories. So it's an indication that
21 there are issues that
we need to address.
22
CFO GALLAGHER: On that slide, it's interesting that
23 of all the coastal
areas, we're doing the best.
24
MS. CASTILLE: On the east coast.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: I'm looking overall southeast
--
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1
MS. CASTILLE: Well, we have on the southeast coast
2 we have half of
Florida is darker blue.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: (Inaudible.)
4
MS. CASTILLE: Right.
5
THE GOVERNOR: It's also because of the --
6
MS. CASTILLE: Of the currents. It's in the currents
7 is what --
8
CFO GALLAGHER: So is our problem what's coming out
9 of Mississippi?
10
MS. CASTILLE: I can't tell you that. A jury is
11 still out on that
issue. Those are -- all of our marine
12 institutes are
studying that issue. Next slide, please.
13 Let's talk about the
coral reef decline. The coral reefs
14 in the Carribean have
seen disastrous declines in the last
15 decades. The
Keys have not escaped this regional problem.
16
The coral cover in the Keys, remember our only
17 barrier reef in the
United States, has declined 37 percent
18 in the last eight
years since 1996, 37 percent.
19
We do have some good news. We've got a blue
20 infrastructure in
place. We've got national marine
21 sanctuaries.
We've got three national marine -- we've got
22 one national marine
sanctuary. We've got three estuarine
23 research
reserves. And we've got 41 aquatic preserves.
24 We have designated,
since 1993, 1.9 million acres of our
25 coastal lands as
aquatic preserves, which, as you
know,
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1 get additional
protection, a higher level of protection
2 than our normal
coastal waters. We are working with NOAA
3 on an extensive
reassessment of our aquatic preserves to
4 make sure we are
preserving those marine environments.
5
Marine reserves. Marine protected areas. We have a
6 number of marine
protected areas throughout the state and
7 it's those marine
protected areas that sort of raise a red
8 flag to some people
and what the real concern is is marine
9 reserves. Marine
reserves are the subset of a marine
10 protected area.
We'd like to change the lingo to marine
11 managed areas because
we're starting to see that
12 especially the
fishermen and those who make their living
13 off the coastal
waters understand that there is a big
14 benefit from marine
reserves in other type of managed
15 areas.
16
Just recently, as I was flipping through the channels
17 on television and I
was watching Outdoor Network, they
18 were actually having
some of the major fishermen discuss
19 the benefits of the
marine reserves and the size of the
20 fish and the numbers
of the fish that are able to be
21 caught on the outside
of those reserves. So they are
22 having their intended
consequences of improving the
23 ecosystem.
24
Next slide. So what are we doing in Florida?
25 Governor Bush, as I
mentioned earlier, instituted
a
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1 regional Gulf of
Mexico effort. We are meeting with the
2 Agency -- with similar
agencies around the Gulf of Mexico
3 and I think it's -- is
it December, Kathy, or November?
4 In November all of the
scientists and aquatic managed area
5 folks are meeting at
the Stennis Laboratory in Alabama to
6 discuss what we can do
jointly for the Gulf of Mexico so
7 that we are
coordinated all of that research and
8 monitoring that's
going on between the states.
9
We are entering into -- well, the DEP and the Fish
10 and Wildlife
Conservation Commission launched the oceans
11 initiative which I'll
give a little bit more detail later.
12 We're entering into a
memorandum of agreement with the
13 Great Barrier Reef
Marine Park Authority on the coral
14 resilience.
I'll get into that a little bit later. And
15 we're participating
in the development of a regional ocean
16 observing
system. And we're also reassessing our
17 priorities and making
sure, as we did with the springs
18 initiative, that all
the folks in the agency are aware of
19 what we are doing so
we don't -- so that we don't approve
20 any more ocean
outfalls or if we do, we do it at a higher
21 treatment level and
reduce those impacts to the ocean.
22
The stronger alliance for the Gulf of Mexico, we are
23 involving the Mexico
gulf governors as well through the
24 Gulf of Mexico States
Accord. There was yet another
25 meeting with all of
the states including Mexico at
the
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1 Hart Institute in the
University of Texas -- in Corpus
2 Christi. So the
most important part of all of this is the
3 data gathering to find
out what do we know. With our
4 oceans initiative, we
need to find out what is the science
5 gap that we
have. What is it that we know, what is it
6 that we don't know,
and then initially how can we -- how
7 can we move forward
with increasing the awareness to
8 Florida's public on
estAblishing the partnerships to
9 enhance recreation,
ecotourism, commerce and understanding
10 that this is most
importantly an ecosystem that we need to
11 protect because it is
an important factor in our quality
12 of life, but as well
as an important part of our economy.
13
With the $1 million appropriation from the
14 Legislature this
year, DEP and Fish and Wildlife
15 Conservation
Commission have contracted with a couple of
16 items that we know
are the most important issues to
17 address. We're
funding projects such as the sea grass
18 mapping and
restoration. We've lost over 200,000 acres of
19 sea grass over the
last 15 years. We have -- we're
20 funding a bacterial
source study to determine what the
21 causes of the beach
closings are. Governor, this is the
22 very exciting DNA
work that I told you about with regard
23 to the fecal coliform
bacteria. It sounds not very
24 exciting, it sounds
like --
25
THE GOVERNOR: I was
riveted.
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1
MS. CASTILLE: Sounds like toilet entertainment.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Toilet entertainment? (Laughter.)
3 I'm glad I don't make
those meetings.
4
MS. CASTILLE: However, it is very important. Let me
5 just give you a very
real example of what we're doing here
6 in Tallahassee.
And we're doing this across the state.
7 We are -- take the
Ochlockonee River. The Ochlockonee
8 River begins in the
lower Georgia area. It flows through
9 Gadsden County, a
rural agricultural area. It flows
10 through Leon County
to the west of us but it is also --
11 flows down through
Wakulla County and Franklin County and
12 comes out at two
areas there, Mashes Sand in Wakulla
13 County and Alligator
Point Beach on Franklin County.
14
What we are doing is we are testing the nutrients
15 which, by the way,
both beaches have been closed since
16 October because of
high nutrient levels. But what we are
17 testing is the
nutrients in trying to determine the DNA of
18 which the nutrients
come from. So we'll be able to tell
19 whether it's from
septic tanks, whether it's from goat
20 farms, chicken farms,
and there is --
21
THE GOVERNOR: I resent the fact that you're
22 attacking the
beleaguered goat farmers of north Florida.
23
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, we know it's not going to be
24 pig farms. We
ran them out of the state, right, Charlie?
25
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: That's
right.
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1
THE GOVERNOR: On this note, the word tetrapoda means
2 four legs in
Greek. Amphibians, reptiles and mammals are
3 the major groups of
the tetrapoda.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Including snakes that don't have any
5 legs but they used
to.
6
(Laughter.)
7
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I did --
8
MS. CASTILLE: Science can be fun.
9
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I did have a comment I would
10 like to make on this
and that is --
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Tetrapods?
12
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: No.
13
(Laughter.)
14
THE GOVERNOR: The runoff?
15
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I just want to make sure --
16 yes. And I
think it's an important issue here. And no
17 matter -- while all
our environmental friends are going to
18 put more pressure on
Florida to do everything we can and
19 we pay for to clean
up our potential problem, and I just
20 asked the CFO about
the flow of the water that we looked
21 at awhile ago.
And that is if our neighboring countries
22 from South, Central
America, and Mexico are not doing all
23 the things that they
can do then the pressures when you
24 test water off our
coast with that water flow, it may be
25 bringing things in
that are really not responsible
for
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1 Florida but from our
neighbors that we're still testing as
2 if it's our problem
and we're spending millions, if not
3 billions of dollars
trying to clean up which would include
4 our friends down the
Mississippi River which we know how
5 high industrial that's
been for over 100 years. And that
6 water flows down and
that mixture swirls that water and
7 therefore, we're
picking up contaminants that may not be
8 our fault but coming
from somewhere else that we're paying
9 for.
10
So I don't mind being a part of doing our share of
11 cleanup and
responsibility, but I don't think Florida
12 should pay for all of
it and be totally responsible just
13 because we're dipping
water up off our shores that may be
14 coming from somewhere
else and being contaminated from
15 somewhere else.
So I just want to make sure we're looking
16 at this from a very
broad perspective of what the science
17 is going to tell
us. And I think they need to be telling
18 us what's coming in
around the tip of South America,
19 what's coming in from
other areas so that we know what
20 we're dealing
with. And right now all I've heard is what
21 Florida can do for
what we test off our shores and that's
22 fine. But it
may not all be our problem and yet we're
23 going to have to pay
for it. So I just want to be -- make
24 sure we're looking at
this from a very broad, open
25 approach
here.
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1
CFO GALLAGHER: So what Charlie wants to know is that
2 when you're doing that
DNA testing and figuring out
3 whether it's from
septic tanks, can you figure out whose
4 it's from.
5
MS. CASTILLE: You actually can.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: So we'll know whether it's some South
7 American septic tank,
Mexican or ours.
8
MS. CASTILLE: I think right now what we are trying
9 to do is reduce the
cost of the tests. Right now, the
10 test is about $50,000
for one run of the -- so we're
11 trying to bring that
down and we're partnering with other
12 states to do
that. This is a joint project between the
13 University of
Tennessee and the University of Florida. I
14 believe there are
other universities as well. To address
15 Commissioner
Bronson's concern, this is actually -- the
16 U.S. ocean commission
was -- has worked very closely with
17 the departments of
state and I guess you would call it a
18 parallel project with
the entire world on oceans. We're
19 doing these very same
things with other countries and I
20 believe it was April
or May of this past year I attended a
21 conference with
worldwide attendance in Miami talking
22 about these very same
issues. And there were governors of
23 countries, there were
governors of states in countries
24 from all over the
world. We had interpreters, they were
25 all very concerned
about this same
thing.
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1
There was actually corporations from across the world
2 in attendance as
well. What came from that, from that
3 initiative, was a
resolution in which all of the countries
4 agreed to utilize best
practices very much like our best
5 management practices
that we utilize here in Florida.
6 That was used as a
model for what we're doing on a
7 worldwide basis.
So, Commissioner, you make a very good
8 point.
9
My presentation here was very Florida-centric because
10 of our oceans
initiative here. But it is not a singular
11 partnership. It
is a worldwide partnership.
12
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, my -- and I understand
13 that and I just
wanted to make sure we weren't taking on
14 the lion's share of
the responsibility and the cost when
15 it really should be a
shared responsibility because my
16 guess would be, just
like we did here in Florida over
17 years when we started
growing so fast that nobody could
18 keep up with
it. So the idea was if your sewage treatment
19 plant can't take care
of it, you just put it in a pipe and
20 you ship it off out
to wherever you got to ship it to
21 which is exactly what
we did. And I'll use Orlando for a
22 perfect example of
that. When they were shipping
23 everything down to
Shingle Creek into Lake Tohopekaliga
24 which got up to about
your knees when it used to be a
25 sandy bottom lake and
all that effluent flow got up
to
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1 about your
knees. By 1968 you couldn't even walk out
2 there.
3
So my guess is other growing countries like Mexico,
4 the coastline, South
America that are now really beginning
5 to grow, they are not
handling their problem the way it
6 needs to be and
they're probably shipping it out in pipes
7 and it's hitting that
water and flowing right on up to us.
8 So I just want to make
sure we're looking at the whole
9 thing.
10
MS. CASTILLE: We are.
11
THE GOVERNOR: Or the industrial waste coming out of
12 the Mississippi
River.
13
MS. CASTILLE: And this group of scientists that's
14 meeting at the
Stennis Labs, there was -- I think the U.S.
15 Oceans Commission
made a presentation in Iowa. Was it in
16 the state of
Iowa?
17
THE GOVERNOR: U.S. oceans commission met in Iowa?
18
MS. CASTILLE: Well, because Iowa is where much of
19 that industrial and
agricultural effluent to the
20 Mississippi comes
from. So Iowa is very concerned about
21 it, about what issues
we may bring up. So it's a
22 nationwide
problem. It's a worldwide problem and it takes
23 time and it does take
money to meet and to share the
24 information and to --
and the more the scientists get
25 together, the more
they can compare and
contrast
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1 information and the
more they educate some scientists who
2 come from either
states that don't have as quality a
3 program as we have or
countries that have a quality of
4 program that we
have.
5
THE GOVERNOR: General?
6
GENERAL CRIST: Colleen, I'd be interested -- you
7 mentioned that
recreational and commercial fishing
8 together generate 6.6
billion. If you could get me a
9 breakdown of one
versus the other and what all is included
10 to get to those
numbers, I'd be interested to see that.
11
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. We can do that.
12
THE GOVERNOR: All right, Colleen. Are you wrapping
13 it up here?
14
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir, I am. The other most
15 important issue that
we are working on is resilience
16 management on the
coral reefs. This is a cutting edge
17 scientific research
project that has found that some reefs
18 in the Pacific Ocean
have a resilience threshold or a
19 sense of resilience
that they can withstand many of the
20 same pollutants that,
for instance, our coral reefs in the
21 Keys are
experiencing. And what we're trying to do is
22 determine what is it
in the DNA of the coral, what is it
23 in either the waters
or the temperature of the waters or
24 the currents that
make those coral reefs resilient. And
25 we're bringing them
in, partnering with the
Nature
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1 Conservancy to do that
scientific study. Those are just a
2 couple of the issues
we're working on. And so that's
3 again, that would be
worldwide research that would be
4 conducted here in
Florida.
5
Let me just go ahead and cut to the chase here. We
6 have a new vision in
Florida that we make folks more aware
7 of that Florida is not
just a state, it's a state with
8 oceans and coasts and
what we're trying to do is to make
9 sure that we protect
these resources for our future and
10 our children's
future.
11
THE GOVERNOR: Any other comments? (No response.)
12 What was the Suwannee
River basin part that you left out?
13
MS. CASTILLE: The Suwannee River basin was a very
14 similar initiative
that we were doing with the
15 Ochlockonee.
The Ochlockonee -- I use the Ochlockonee
16 because I happened to
have done a little bit more research
17 on that one then I
did with Suwannee. Although we're
18 working -- we have
the partnership in the Suwannee with
19 the dairy folks to
reduce the effluent that may make it
20 into the Suwannee
basin. It's a significant partnership.
21 But what we're able
to see, and it's the same thing in
22 every river that you
have. You have the nutrients that go
23 into the river.
You have the impacts to the benthic
24 resources, to the
shellfish, to the fish dock, the fish
25 biomass. But
not only that, but you have impacts to
how
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1 people recreate.
2
When we have these beaches that are closed, you know,
3 the kids who live and
play on the river can't go in. And
4 if you've spent your
life growing up in Alligator Harbor
5 and you can't go in
there anymore and you can't catch -- I
6 mean, people who live
in these areas literally live off of
7 the ocean. They
catch fish, they catch shrimp. They pull
8 oysters and clams from
the waterways and that's how they
9 subsist. And
that's no longer an option for those folks
10 when we close those
beaches down.
11
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Thank you, Colleen. Just one
12 other item. If
you could give me the details on the
13 budget recommendation
for the continuation of this, I
14 would appreciate
it.
15
MS. CASTILLE: We have that. I have dual beach and
16 budget issue today
with you at 2:30.
17
THE GOVERNOR: Excellent. Item 2.
18
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. Item 2. Item 2 is a request
19 for -- well, it's a
request for the county of Palm Beach
20 to share title with
Palm Beach County and the Board of
21 Trustees for a 5,000
plus acre parcel in western Palm
22 Beach County.
Let me just orient you here. If you
23 look -- you can see
it a little better on the right-hand
24 side. It says
JW Corbett Wildlife Management Area. That
25 blank white triangle
to the north of there is
Pratt
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1 Whitney. The
angled road going across is Beeline
2 Expressway. And
if you look at the very corner of JW
3 Corbett and it says
Northlake Boulevard, that is the
4 Scripps property.
5
So you'll note that in this area, we have quite a bit
6 of land under
conservation. The piece of -- the item
7 before us is a
direction that we were given by the
8 Governor and cabinet
in 1999 which was after a report
9 titled, Joint Title to
Land Purchase by the Trustees and
10 Counties, and the
trustees directed us to develop
11 procedures for
negotiating shared title.
12
This is actually not an issue that -- this is not the
13 first time for this
issue. It's one that, Treasurer
14 Gallagher, you may
recall, we've probably had at least two
15 other times and were
never really able to address many of
16 the issues. In
19 -- on November 9th we were to go to
17 closing for a piece
-- for this piece of property with
18 Palm Beach
County. Palm Beach County notified us at the
19 hearing -- I mean at
the closing that they wanted to have
20 joint title to this
property. We balked at that because
21 at the closing we
were notified that the acquisition
22 dollars that Palm
Beach County has prohibits hunting on
23 their conservation
property.
24
We had specifically, the management plan for this
25 property specifically
addressed hunting and preserved
the
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1 hunting ability on
these properties. So we withdrew from
2 that closing and Palm
Beach County asked us for a deferral
3 until the June -- I
think June 12th cabinet meeting.
4 During the legislative
session, one of the legislators
5 from the Palm Beach
County area proposed some legislation
6 that would allow the
joint -- that would specifically
7 allow the trustees to
enter into joint ownership.
8
We had some concern with that. We have always tried
9 to preserve the
trustees' control and ownership of the
10 property that we
purchase on your behalf. When there is a
11 joint -- when there
is a joint acquisition, each owner has
12 the ability to
mortgage and lease a deed or interest and
13 dispose of the
property without the knowledge or approval
14 of the other
partner. By state law, the Board of Trustees
15 can sell its interest
except it must offer the property to
16 local governments
first on a right of first refusal basis.
17
So if we enter into joint ownership with a county, we
18 have to notify them
that we are changing our ownership in
19 some fashion or
another. It is not the same with a county
20 or a
municipality. They do not have to notify us.
21 Ultimately, I think
the reality would be that we would
22 find out that
something was happening to the property but
23 it would -- the
burden would be upon us to go to court --
24 if the county chose
not to stop their activity, the burden
25 would be upon us to
go to court to estop the county
from
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1 taking this particular
action.
2
Again, a co-owner can pledge the property to secure a
3 federal grant without
our knowledge. And should the grant
4 not be fulfilled, the
federal government could seize the
5 property and the
co-owner, which would be us, could find
6 ourselves enjoined
with the feds on an ownership. The
7 co-owners each have a
right to partition the property and
8 it is an unconditional
right.
9
The court would then make the determination as to
10 dividing the property
into two separate ownerships or
11 selling the property
and dividing the proceeds. What we
12 have done here is we
have recommended a denial of a joint
13 ownership with the
County. If you look at the map, I'm
14 not sure if you can
tell the colors very well. Well, look
15 at the right-hand
map. The right-hand map where the
16 bold -- where the
bold lines are --
17
THE GOVERNOR: Does your map have A, B, C?
18
MS. CASTILLE: My map doesn't.
19
THE GOVERNOR: That's A?
20
MS. CASTILLE: The bold ownerships is what we would,
21 as the State, acquire
if we did a separated ownership.
22 The left side.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Say it again.
24
MS. CASTILLE: There are two dark parcels. The left
25 side is -- this is
better.
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1
THE GOVERNOR: This is simpler, I think.
2
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. The parcels, the actual parcels
3 that are above C and A
--
4
(Off-the-record discussion.)
5
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. The parcel -- if we decided not
6 to do joint ownership
and continued with this closing,
7 what we would
recommend is we would recommend a 50/50
8 split. And what
we would purchase from Palm Beach County
9 would be Parcel C and
Parcel A and the right-hand side
10 would remain with
Palm Beach County.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Now what you're saying -- has Palm
12 Beach County already
bought this?
13
MS. CASTILLE: Palm Beach County has already bought
14 it. We
typically -- it's generally with the water
15 management districts
but we do -- we do an acquisition
16 agreement where a
county or the water management district
17 would acquire the
property and then come to us for a 50/50
18 split.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: We do 50/50 splits on joint ownership
20 with water management
districts. To the best of my
21 knowledge, we've
never done one with anybody else.
22
MS. CASTILLE: We have -- to the best of my
23 knowledge, we haven't
either. But there is a speaker who
24 remembers a cabinet
meeting differently than we do and
25 says
--
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1
CFO GALLAGHER: Where is she?
2
MS. CASTILLE: Ultimately, we did not do the joint
3 ownership but the
Governor and cabinet approved a joint
4 ownership
apparently.
5
THE GOVERNOR: That's a separate subject. We have
6 the right to do
it.
7
MS. CASTILLE: We do. We do have a right to do it.
8
THE GOVERNOR: We don't need to have legislation to
9 do it in my
opinion. I think we have the right to do it.
10 The question is
should we do it and that's worthy of
11 discussion.
12
MS. CASTILLE: So that's the debate --
13
THE GOVERNOR: Did we agree that we were going to buy
14 this property in
advance of their purchase? In other
15 words, was there an
understanding, commitment?
16
MS. CASTILLE: Yes.
17
CFO GALLAGHER: But we didn't say exactly how because
18 there was a big
discussion --
19
MS. CASTILLE: Well, we knew we were going to do a
20 joint
ownership. We were going to hold shared title,
21 right?
22
MS. ARMSTRONG: No, we went down --
23
THE GOVERNOR: Eva, talk into the microphone.
24
MS. ARMSTRONG: This project goes back to 1992 when
25 it was first put on
the Preservation 2000 list. And
at
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1 that point shared
title was not part of the plan. It was
2 going to be a bargain
share purchase with the County and
3 we were going to share
funds but we were going to hold
4 title which goes way
back.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Which is what we normally do with
6 counties on every deal
that I've been involved in.
7
MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. I do need to clarify. At
8 one point, the Board
of Trustees and this County shared
9 title on what was
MacArthur State Park. In 1996, the
10 County came to the
Board of Trustees and said they did not
11 like that arrangement
and the Board of Trustees bought
12 them out. I
think they gave up interest in something else
13 and Board of Trustees
now fully own MacArthur Park. I
14 don't know all the
details, but it was in 1996.
15
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, we've already learned that this
16 joint ownership
doesn't work at least in one instance.
17
MS. CASTILLE: Well, the issues that frequently come
18 up is counties tell
us that they are concerned that we may
19 develop the
property. Which in the history of the Board
20 of Trustees has not
really been a large -- a big issue.
21 We, on quite a
frequent basis, get requests from
22 municipalities and
from counties for giving up state land
23 for development
purposes and it's in very rare occasions
24 that we do that.
25
THE GOVERNOR: We could -- the simple fact is that
we
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1 could have a 50/50
arrangement and you brought up
2 legitimate concerns
that we would have with a local
3 government about their
ability to mortgage the property or
4 to do things on the
property without notice. You could
5 put that in the
agreement. I mean, it would be a legal
6 binding
agreement. Likewise, if people were concerned
7 that the State was
going to develop the property, that
8 could be put into the
agreement. That's what agreements
9 are for, I would
imagine.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: Put a title restriction on it.
11
THE GOVERNOR: I mean, this is -- this seems like a
12 big -- the question
is do we want to do it or not. And
13 I'd like to hear from
the local permit people. I don't
14 think -- I mean,
that's why we have the ability to
15 structure deals on a
case-by-case basis. I don't know why
16 we need to try to
reinvent the wheel here. Give the
17 lawyers a chance to
go into a room and work it out.
18 That's what they do
for a living.
19
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: And, Governor, I'd like to
20 know what is the
benefit to the State for us to even -- I
21 mean, I haven't heard
what the true benefit yet of us
22 doing this is for the
people of the state of Florida.
23 What benefit to the
citizens of this state if we make this
24 agreement do the rest
of the people in the state get out
25 of doing a joint
agreement with Palm Beach
County?
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Shouldn't we hear from Palm Beach
2 County and then we'll
open it up for discussion?
3
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, we should.
4
MS. ARMSTRONG: And if I might, let me clarify the
5 map real quick because
I think I've confused the
6 secretary. If
you'll look at these two maps, this one is
7 the way the contract
was before where the State would buy
8 this piece, these two
dark pieces and the County would
9 retain this one.
This is the current contract, the way
10 you had approved it
in the spring. This is the one where
11 we would jointly hold
title to all of it, ignore the A, B,
12 C, and D, those were
parcel-specific.
13
THE GOVERNOR: That's what Palm Beach -- that's
14 what's in front of us
--
15
MS. ARMSTRONG: This is what's before you today.
16
THE GOVERNOR: -- and what Palm Beach would like for
17 us to do?
18
MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. You would jointly hold 100
19 percent title, both
parties to all of the hatched area.
20 And I confused the
secretary. I'm sorry about that, okay?
21 I'm going to put this
one back up for discussion purposes.
22 Will you back that up
a little bit?
23
CFO GALLAGHER: If the County would tell us what's
24 wrong with the old
agreement and why a new one.
25
MS. CASTILLE: Mr. John VanArnam, Palm Beach
County.
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Welcome, sir.
2
MR. VANARNAM: Good morning, Governor and members.
3 I'm not one of our
commissioners. I'm a staff person with
4 the County. I'm
the deputy director of our environmental
5 resources management
--
6
THE GOVERNOR: You don't look like Karen Marcus.
7
MR. VANARNAM: No, so I want to make that clear. As
8 the secretary pointed
out, this is not a new issue. Four
9 points, if I
may. This is not a new issue. Back in
10 December of '99, the
Department, then Secretary Struhs,
11 brought this issue
before you and he asked for three
12 things. One was
to accept the report by your land
13 acquisition counsel,
LaMack. The second was to develop
14 procedures for shared
titles. And third was to direct
15 staff to develop
procedures that would resolve any future
16 conflicts relative to
ownership and management. And he
17 pointed out when he
testified in front of this body that
18 those should be
exceptions rather than the rule.
19
The trustees approved that recommendation unanimously
20 and unfortunately the
Department never developed those
21 procedures that they
asked for authorization to develop.
22
You asked about why shared title and I want to give
23 you a few reasons why
shared title with local government
24 makes sense and is
consistent with the Florida Statutes.
25 One is when you have
a local government partner, the
State
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1 gets essentially
double acreage for the same purchase
2 price. We are
sharing, putting 50 percent of the money up
3 towards an
acquisition.
4
All of your state management rules related to
5 acquisition and
management apply. The legislative intent
6 for conservation for
the goals of the State's conservation
7 lands program are
furthered by partnership with the local
8 government. With
the local government as the land manager
9 and most of these
types of arrangements are structured in
10 that way, the
responsibility for management of the site
11 falls on the local
government and the local governments
12 fund the management
of these sites which can get rather
13 expensive
essentially, if you're in an area where you have
14 a lot of problems
with invasive exotics and encroachment
15 of development.
16
The local government --
17
THE GOVERNOR: I'm sorry. But is that the
18 understanding that if
we purchase this -- if we purchase a
19 50 percent interest
in the whole amount that you would
20 continue to manage
it?
21
MR. VANARNAM: Yes, sir.
22
THE GOVERNOR: And if we don't, we are obligated to
23 manage it?
24
MR. VANARNAM: The option agreement that was on the
25 table was we'd agree
to manage the State portion also
if
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1 we went ahead and
split the property in half which was
2 what the Department
seems to prefer as opposed to the
3 shared title
arrangement, we had agreed to manage both
4 parcels.
5
THE GOVERNOR: So in either case --
6
MR. VANARNAM: We would have managed it.
7
THE GOVERNOR: You're talking in past tense here,
8 past, would have, I
mean --
9
CFO GALLAGHER: You will.
10
THE GOVERNOR: We're hoping that this goes forward.
11 The reverse of what
you said is also true which is that
12 we're extending the
reach of the County's conservation
13 plan. You
bought it. We're paying for half of it, I
14 assume. I don't
know what price compared to what you
15 bought it for if
there is some benefit that the County
16 gets out of that just
out of the appreciation of the
17 value. You're
extending our reach and we're extending
18 yours irrespective of
whether it's a 50 percent ownership
19 of a larger piece or
if we break it up.
20
MR. VANARNAM: Yes, sir. I mean, that's one of the
21 benefits for the
citizens of Florida --
22
MR. WATKINS: It's a benefit either way. It's a
23 benefit whether we
split it in two or if we buy 50 percent
24 interest.
25
MR. VANARNAM:
Yes.
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1
CFO GALLAGHER: Question. If we only buy 50 percent,
2 you own 50 percent, we
own 50 percent, two separate
3 pieces, you're still
going to manage both?
4
MR. VANARNAM: Well, let me suggest -- or tell you
5 that there has been
discussions that if this shared title
6 approach is not
approved by the trustees, it's likely that
7 the Board or our board
will authorize a request to the
8 State to withdraw from
that option agreement so that
9 essentially -- and
that was asked at the cabinet or at the
10 aides' meeting and
the Department said they would not
11 object to that.
12
THE GOVERNOR: So you would rather --
13
MR. VANARNAM: We would retain the whole property.
14
THE GOVERNOR: And then we could go spend money on
15 other properties that
have conservation value.
16
MR. VANARNAM: Right.
17
CFO GALLAGHER: Why are we here?
18
THE GOVERNOR: It's like sticking a gun to your head
19 and saying I'm going
to stick you up.
20
CFO GALLAGHER: I'm going to shoot myself.
21
MR. VANARNAM: If I could continue.
22
THE GOVERNOR: Please.
23
CFO GALLAGHER: Yeah, if you could explain that one.
24
MR. VANARNAM: In terms of the benefits, one of the
25 benefits of a shared
title arrangement is that -- one
of
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1 the main reasons we're
interested, we feel in terms of
2 long-term protection
for the land, there will be a greater
3 level of long-term
protection for the land. We're
4 protecting ourselves
from ourselves, you're helping us do
5 that and we're also
protecting the land against some
6 action by a future
Board of Trustees 20, 30, 40 years into
7 the future. We
are both -- both levels of government are
8 bought in and listed
on the title and are helping to
9 protect that, provide
the long-term protection for the
10 property.
That's one of the things that's missing when
11 you essentially split
the property in half.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, if we buy -- you already own it
13 all. And if we
buy half of it from you, we can make a
14 deal that basically
says that you must give us the first
15 option on the other
piece. We must give you the first
16 option on our piece
and you can't develop yours unless we
17 agree to develop
ours. And we'll crisscross it so nobody
18 can do anything
unless the other one agrees. Right now,
19 you have the title
and we could put a title restriction on
20 the whole property
when the sale is done because you got
21 it under one title
now. You're going to have to split it
22 and have two separate
titles anyway, aren't you?
23
MR. VANARNAM: Yes.
24
THE GOVERNOR: So, in other words, again, back to the
25 point of why a 50
percent interest in the whole
property
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1 is better than the
opposite, we could structure in the
2 purchase -- in the
agreement, a way to accommodate the
3 county commission not
trusting us and vice versa. I mean,
4 it could be done
either way. You haven't given us
5 anything to say this
is so unique that it requires a
6 50 percent purchase
rather than separating it.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: And let me just mention from my own
8 point of view, what we
would be doing is setting a
9 brand-new precedent
that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with
10 right now when it
doesn't have to be done. In other
11 words, there's other
ways to accomplish what you-all want
12 and what I don't have
a problem with. But to do the
13 50/50, all of a
sudden, we have a new precedent and every
14 county and city is
going to come to us and say, Let's do
15 one of these 50/50 we
all own it type things, and then we
16 end up with
properties all over the place, we don't even
17 know what we have and
we don't know who's managing it.
18 And we've never done
it before other than with water
19 management districts
which is sort of part of this, and
20 I'm real
uncomfortable starting that precedent when we
21 don't have to, for
whatever that's worth.
22
THE GOVERNOR: Is there another -- maybe in Palm
23 Beach they're more
respectful of the people that speak and
24 let them
finish. But we're kind of --
25
CFO GALLAGHER: You obviously haven't been to a
Palm
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1 Beach County
commission meeting.
2
(Laughter.)
3
THE GOVERNOR: If there are other issues that are
4 important, please let
us know.
5
MR. VANARNAM: In terms of an agreement, we spent
6 three or four months
crafting an agreement that's got 14
7 specific covenants
that we agreed, deed restrictions
8 placed on the
property. There is a reverter clause.
9 There's a right of
first refusal and there's a 14-page
10 lease that goes along
with it. All of those things were
11 structured to protect
the interests of the State and to
12 protect the
Trustees. A lot of time was spent on that and
13 we feel it
accomplishes that.
14
So you talked about under an arrangement could you
15 structure some
agreements and the governor, you mentioned
16 earlier, that's what
agreements are for and we did. We
17 spent a lot of work
on that. We felt we had a commitment
18 from the Department
to move forward. We put a lot of time
19 into it as did the
State and then we were somewhat
20 surprised at the
denial recommendation.
21
THE GOVERNOR: Well, let's ask the Department why you
22 would put Palm Beach
County through this and then at the
23 end have them come
here with a denial request.
24
MS. CASTILLE: It was for just the reason that
25 Treasurer Gallagher
brought up, that we would have
a
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1 number of counties who
were wanting to do this and the
2 management concerns
with having to make sure that every
3 time we do something
on a piece of property we notify
4 every time the County
does something on the piece of
5 property, and it would
be multiple counties.
6
But the other issue is the restrictive covenants that
7 we would put in there,
it would definitely be the good
8 faith intention of
both parties to adhere to those and
9 we're just leery of
doing that.
10
THE GOVERNOR: But why did you go months of
11 discussions and work
out an agreement? I'm missing the
12 point. If those
concerns were clear beforehand, why put
13 everybody through a
torturous process?
14
MS. ARMSTRONG: That was me. Well, I'll take the
15 responsibility, it
was. I had Sandra Stockwell who is
16 your Board of
Trustees DIRT (phonetic) lawyer do the
17 negotiations with
Palm Beach County. And when they got
18 done, she came in,
sat down with me, and we went over the
19 contract. And I
said, Ultimately are we able to protect
20 the public trust with
this contract? Will we, you know,
21 10, 15, 20 years down
the road still be protecting what we
22 need to
protect? And we couldn't come to yes because you
23 end up back in
court. It won't be today. It won't be
24 five years or ten
years. We're talking about 15 years
25 when something will
happen on that property and we'll
all
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1 be gone and we'll be
in court and the judge will divide
2 the property and end
up splitting it and we're right back
3 here with split
property.
4
You can't put the legal protections in place in that
5 contract to deal with
all the different things that happen
6 on a piece of property
when two governments jointly own
7 it. And I'm the
one who said, I can't in good conscience
8 for what you folks
hired me to do, recommend you enter
9 into this contract on
this piece of property. So that's
10 why I recommended
denial and that's why we're here.
11
And we told Palm Beach County during the legislative
12 process, we said,
Look, instead of going into rulemaking,
13 let's try one of
these and see if it works. And so we
14 did. I had them
in good faith negotiate that contract.
15 Do the best you can
to put the legal protections in place
16 in that
contract. But ultimately it just doesn't work.
17
So I said, Okay, let's take it to the cabinet. Let's
18 have a full
discussion of the policies around it. But as
19 your Director of
State Lands and your DIRT lawyer who's
20 excellent on these
issues, we just didn't feel we could
21 recommend this was
the way for the State to go if you're
22 going to protect
these conservation lands in joint
23 ownership with
another government entity.
24
We just don't see how it works. Split title works.
25 They say they're
interested in leveraging the property
and
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1 protecting it.
Boy, you leverage those dollars, you take
2 the dollars in, you
buy the big piece of property, you get
3 the lower price and
then split title and both entities get
4 to manage it for the
best way they see fit. You end up
5 there ultimately
anyway.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Everything you said makes sense, Eva.
7 But the same would
apply by splitting title. You have the
8 exact same -- there's
no way 20 years from now to know how
9 a crazy judge would
rule if one of the entities wanted to
10 do something that was
dramatically different than the
11 intent when it was
purchased.
12
MS. ARMSTRONG: Right.
13
THE GOVERNOR: I mean, if you're trying to plan for
14 that, neither one of
these scenarios guarantees that
15 that's going to
happen.
16
MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct.
17
THE GOVERNOR: So, again, I go back to the question
18 that it seems to me
that, just from a policy -- put aside
19 this particular
property and maybe the speaker could
20 answer this
question. What benefits -- the treasurer
21 asked the
question: What benefits does the State get -- I
22 think it was the
treasurer -- in return for doing --
23 accommodating you in
terms of the structure? What do we
24 get? The only
thing I can see, based on the conversation
25 so far, is we get
someone else to manage the property.
I
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1 think that's a
benefit. I mean, Palm Beach County is a
2 good steward of the
land. I think they are recognized as
3 such. So we get
that benefit. We get to save the
4 management
costs. I can't think of anything else.
5
MR. VANARNAM: The State gets the benefit of a true
6 partnership with their
local government partners. We put
7 up half the money, you
guys put up -- the State puts up
8 half the money.
The public benefits. We share title. We
9 have a tight agreement
that we're going to manage it
10 exactly the way the
State wants us to manage it and it's a
11 win -- we look at it
as a win/win, better long-term
12 protection for the
property.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: And the alternative is that you-all
14 own it
completely. We take it off the list and on we go.
15
MR. VANARNAM: Yes, sir.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: That's like a slam dunk. Don't buy
17 half of it, to
me. I mean, you know, you're saying, Why
18 don't you go ahead
and spend money so you could own half
19 of what we already
bought.
20
MR. VANARNAM: Well, that is an option. We'll keep
21 the property, we'll
manage it for conservation purposes
22 and we're trying to
get other entities to hold easements
23 to help protect
against the future action of the Board of
24 County
Commissioners. We've offered easements to the
25 Water Management
District at no cost. We've
offered
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1 easements to Audubon
and the Nature Conservancy. We are
2 trying to tie this
property to ensure that a future board
3 doesn't take some
action that will take it out of
4 preservation.
That's an option that we are trying to
5 pursue.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Maybe what we ought to do is buy a
7 conservation easement
from you and then we own -- we keep
8 you from ever
developing it by paying you some money and,
9 you know, you get to
manage it like we do with individuals
10 every day.
11
MR. VANARNAM: That would be fine.
12
THE GOVERNOR: Really?
13
MR. VANARNAM: Yeah, I have no problem with that at
14 all.
15
THE GOVERNOR: There you have it.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: That way, you get the money and you
17 manage it and we set
the rules on how you manage it.
18
MS. CASTILLE: One of the other issues with this
19 piece of property is
the management of it. The property,
20 prior to Palm Beach
County owning it or purchasing it, was
21 in hunting. And
Palm Beach County's conservation funds
22 restrict hunting from
properties that they purchase.
23
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I got a question on that one
24 then.
25
MS. CASTILLE: So if we purchased it in a separate
--
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1 so currently, there is
no hunting on the property. If we
2 purchased it in a
50/50 purchase, we would take the upper
3 half which is
connected to the Hungryland Slough area and
4 we would be able to
return hunting to those lands. And we
5 do have two other
speakers -- three other speakers here
6 and so that's kind of
one of the issues in Palm Beach
7 County.
8
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, if the County keeps
9 total control over it,
I mean there's nothing -- if that's
10 the County's rule on
it, that's one thing. But if the
11 State is a managing
partner, one of the things I hear
12 every day is:
How much more forest land are we going to
13 open up for hunting
for the State because for the public
14 to get a chance to
hunt, a lot of those areas are closing
15 down. And if
they don't hunt on State land, there's no
16 land for people to
hunt on.
17
Now for those who think hunting is bad and all that,
18 I think they need to
go look at Ducks Unlimited and the
19 Wild Turkey
Federation and look at the amount of wildlife
20 that's been produced
on these lands and paid for by
21 hunters' licenses and
they'll find out there's more game
22 available than ever
before because it's being managed
23 properly.
24
And being from one of the three most populated
25 counties in the
state, your own population is looking
for
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1 hunting lands and they
are looking for the State mostly
2 for it. And, of
course, you've got Corbett wildlife
3 management area down
there which is open to everybody in
4 the state, not just
the people in that county. But that
5 would be one of the
things I'd want to talk to you about
6 is sometimes by people
in the county saying hunting is
7 bad, they don't
understand that doing it the right way,
8 you can actually have
a very good game population, very
9 good wildlife
population, and foliage population by
10 managing it in the
right way. So just to say, No hunting,
11 if the County owns
it, they certainly have a right to do
12 that. If the
State is a partner in it, I'm not sure we
13 want to do that.
14
MR. VANARNAM: Very quickly. On the hunting issue, I
15 don't disagree with
anything you said. We did turn
16 over -- sell a
portion of the Pal Mar piece north of
17 Indiantown Road to
the Fish and Wildlife Commission who
18 agreed with this
approach so they could hunt, add that to
19 their Hungryland
Slough area and their holdings north of
20 there so that it
could be hunted. The Fish and Wildlife
21 Conservation
Commission agreed with the management
22 approach to have this
piece that we're talking about here
23 which is below
Indiantown Road to be managed by the County
24 under the County's
management.
25
So the hunting issue was dealt with by turning
over
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1 the piece north of
Indiantown Road to the Fish and
2 Wildlife Conservation
Commission. I don't think the
3 hunting is an issue
with all due respect to the secretary.
4
MS. CASTILLE: We have two other speakers -- three
5 other speakers.
We have Eric Draper from the Audubon
6 Society, Florida
Audubon, sorry.
7
MR. DRAPER: Thank you, Colleen.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
9
MR. DRAPER: Good morning. I mostly want to focus on
10 this issue from a
policy point of view. I actually
11 managed the Land
Acquisition Referendum Campaign back in
12 1991 that approved
the County's program to buy this land
13 and a lot of the
other land. I remember specifically just
14 on the hunting issue,
Commissioner Bronson, that we sold
15 the voters on two
important points. One is that there
16 would be the promise
of matching money from the State for
17 the County's
purchases. And the second is these were
18 primarily sold as
park lands. That's what the voters
19 believed they were
going out and approving.
20
The point that I'm most interested in here is
21 maintaining the
partnership with the counties. We had
22 four counties at
election day approve tax increases and
23 bonds to have their
own land acquisition programs.
24 Brevard did it for
the third time. Dade did it for the
25 third time.
Indian River has a second program in
place
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1 now. And Osceola
has a new program which, by the way, I
2 think is nonhunting
lands.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Nonhunting in Osceola?
4
MR. DRAPER: I believe that that's the case. I
5 believe that's the
case. I was told that the other day.
6 The point is they're
tending toward more park land type
7 purchases. It's
very important that you continue the
8 partnership with Palm
Beach County. Probably Palm Beach
9 County has been the
Trustee's strongest partner in terms
10 of protecting lands,
its shared purchases, and the County
11 is managing other
lands in that situation, and sending a
12 message to other
county governments that this is the
13 type -- this is the
way we'll extend the Florida Forever
14 Program and try and
maximize the purchases as much as you
15 can.
16
As I've listened to this debate during the cabinet
17 aides' meeting,
participated in it during the legislative
18 session last year,
and listened to it this morning, I'm
19 concerned that the
State might just be focusing too much
20 on risk adversity and
not focusing enough on the
21 opportunity
here. It seemed to me at the point the
22 treasurer raised the
question of just buying an easement
23 over the property,
that might just be the solution to this
24 situation, is look
for other ways to structure this deal.
25 If you decide to deny
today, please do so with
some
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1 direction to the staff
to restructure this in such a way
2 that they can come
back to you and we can actually
3 complete something
that really is -- this deal has been
4 being worked on for
over ten years. Find a way to make it
5 work.
6
I read the attorney's memo, Stockdale's memo on this
7 thing. And I
just find it feels like there is too much
8 focus on risk and not
enough focus on opportunity here.
9 And what we should do
is to work as hard as we can to try
10 to keep this
partnership going and extend the benefit to
11 both the taxpayers of
Palm Beach County and the State of
12 Florida. Thank
you.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you. General?
14
GENERAL CRIST: Colleen, maybe you can help me out.
15 If I'm
oversimplifying, let me know. But it seems to me
16 what we're talking
about here is whether or not you want
17 to have the State and
the County go together to purchase
18 some land to preserve
it, to reduce the cost to, I guess,
19 about half to each
one, then determine somebody is going
20 to manage it.
Is that the idea? Just reduce costs to
21 both governments?
22
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, leverage our dollars. Allow each
23 of us to go out and
buy more land. We pay only for
24 50 percent and then
go out and buy more land.
25
GENERAL CRIST: Okay. But the reality is it's
the
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1 same taxpayer that's
doing it, isn't it?
2
MS. CASTILLE: I think the tax base is different from
3 each, but, yes.
From each 50 percent share.
4
GENERAL CRIST: And we have not done this before?
5 This would be the
first time we would do this mutual sort
6 of land buying
deal?
7
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
8
GENERAL CRIST: But it might, in the long run, enable
9 us to buy more
land.
10
MS. CASTILLE: It would.
11
GENERAL CRIST: Okay.
12
MS. CASTILLE: We have two more speakers. Manley
13 Fuller from the
Florida Wildlife Federation and then Bill
14 Roberts from the
Association of Counties.
15
MR. FULLER: Good morning, Governor and cabinet. The
16 Florida Wildlife
Federation thinks that certainly there
17 ought to be
opportunities to partner with counties and
18 should be pursued to
maximize conservation land
19 acquisition
benefits. But we're -- we support the staff
20 recommendation in
this case because we think there are
21 other ways to partner
besides having a shared title. I
22 followed some of
these discussions, been on the periphery
23 of these discussions
for several years about this issue in
24 Palm Beach County in
Pal Mar. And I was under the
25 impression that back
in the summer that an agreement
had
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1 been reached between
the State and the County that they
2 were going to divide
the property with the County
3 retaining 100 percent
title to approximately half of it
4 and the State was
going to retain title to the other half
5 and I that's -- I
didn't realize this item was coming up
6 again with the blended
title issue.
7
We're concerned that the guarantees under the State
8 constitution on
conservation standards could be brought
9 into question with
joint ownership. I had reviewed
10 staff -- legal
memorandum. I'm not an attorney but I'd
11 also spoken with --
at a meeting with an attorney, Jack
12 Peoples, and we had
an informal discussion about this and
13 he said, Well, you
don't want to go joint title. He said
14 there's other ways
you can structure agreements to do it
15 to protect both
parties' interests. So we're concerned
16 about the joint title
and think what Commissioner -- I
17 think what Colleen
Castille laid out with the State
18 acquiring a portion
of it and the County acquiring it and
19 just have a mutual
management agreement that's for the
20 parcels would be the
way to go. Or as Commissioner
21 Gallagher suggested,
possibly something along the
22 conservation easement
line.
23
One thing that I do want to say regarding comments by
24 Commissioner Bronson,
and the federation agrees with him
25 completely, that
there is a misunderstanding by
some
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1 people that you can't
have wildlife benefits, tremendous
2 wildlife benefits and
have hunting on a parcel. And we
3 don't like that
portion of Palm Beach County's language
4 which prohibits
hunting. While we recognize that most of
5 the parcels acquired
within Palm Beach County, hunting
6 would be an
inappropriate activity because the areas are
7 too urbanized,
suburbanized, whatever. That doesn't mean
8 that some of the
agricultural lands that might be -- might
9 come under a county
purchase or on the periphery might not
10 be able to have
things like dove fields, things like that.
11 And we think that we
don't like to see language in these
12 county initiatives
that would absolutely prohibit hunting
13 on a piece of
property, recognizing that there are many
14 properties where it
isn't appropriate. So we think this
15 has been one --
something about the Palm Beach language
16 that we have been
concerned about for sometime. Although
17 we very strongly
support counties doing what Palm Beach
18 County is doing.
19
So that -- we would support the staff recommendation,
20 but we think there's
other ways to get to where we all
21 want to get and we
think there are other ways where the
22 State and the
counties and other districts, particularly
23 counties, can
maximize conservation benefit both for
24 residents of
individual counties as well as residents of
25 the
state.
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner.
2
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Thank you, Governor. Manley,
3 let me ask you.
You've been involved over the years.
4 Audubon has, Sierra,
almost every organization has been
5 involved in the
process of either outright purchases of
6 land for the State
under a set of guidelines where we go
7 in and set which is
going to be in the Class A, Class B
8 and sometimes that
gets changed. But the way I'm looking
9 at this right now,
this would almost give counties, should
10 other counties decide
to do the same thing, a chance to
11 jump in and either
jump over or get us involved in doing a
12 split buy of land
that may not meet the Class A, Class B
13 land purchases that
we are right now we've got more land
14 out there available
than we have money to buy it with.
15
So therefore, you start putting this in, that's
16 another whole process
in there that the counties may want
17 the land saved but it
may not be that high up on our state
18 list that we're
looking at now that everyone has been
19 meeting on. So
that shoes more land in front of us to
20 make a deal that may
not be exactly where we think we need
21 to go with our State
money even if it is under an
22 agreement for
conservation easement. It may not be at the
23 top of our list in
conservation easements either.
24
So I see this as a potential to put more land in
25 front of us to put
money on without doing the
process
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1 we've been doing which
is to systematically go down those
2 lists as to what we
think is the most important land for
3 either purchase or
conservation easements.
4
MR. FULLER: Well, Commissioner, I think that
5 there -- one
situation, as you're well aware, we have more
6 potential conservation
purchases on the list than we have
7 money to follow up
on. And the counties, I think -- I
8 can't speak for ARC,
but I believe in their
9 recommendations if
other partners can help leverage a
10 piece of property
that they think is valuable, that will
11 be useful. But
you would not want to have a situation
12 where, you know, a
county was pushing property that really
13 didn't meet the
State's criteria if that's what you're
14 getting at.
15
So I could see what you're saying as a possibility.
16 But in most cases,
you know, you would think that -- you
17 have, you know,
counties like say Brevard and Brevard has
18 got a lot of real
high quality natural areas in it. It
19 also has tremendous
growth pressure. So in a place like
20 Brevard, there has
been, I think, some good coordinated
21 and cooperation
between the State and the County. So I
22 think there is an
opportunity there. But I think if you
23 cloud the title, you
bring in potential conflict. Do the
24 State constitutional
standards apply to a property where
25 there is joint
title. And eventually, some judge
would
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1 have to parcel that
out. Whereas if you-all maintain, we
2 own 100 percent here
on this side of the road and the
3 County owns 100
percent, we have a cooperative management
4 agreement.
You've effectively protected the property but
5 you don't get into
those potential legal quagmires. Thank
6 you.
7
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
8
MS. CASTILLE: Just to address the commissioner's
9 comments and also
Attorney General Crist. We frequently
10 purchase land bargain
shared with counties. But what has
11 happened historically
is that the counties turn over 100
12 percent title to us
after that. And it is a legitimate
13 why, Commissioner, of
moving your project up the list. If
14 you come to us with
an acquisition that the County is
15 either getting ready
to acquire or has already acquired,
16 then on that B list
it begins to be one of the bargain
17 properties that we
get because we get it for 50 percent of
18 value.
19
THE GOVERNOR: I think, don't we, when our federal
20 partners are
involved, they maintain 100 percent title.
21 There is no 50/50
joint ownership when the feds are
22 involved, are
they?
23
MS. CASTILLE: I think it differs on different pieces
24 of property.
Because on the Corbett piece of property, we
25 have 100 percent
title on that but they have this sort
of
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1 string attached to us,
as you recall, where if we do
2 anything with it, we
have to go ask them for authority to
3 sell --
4
THE GOVERNOR: But we don't have any -- do we have
5 any 50/50
ownership?
6
MS. CASTILLE: Federal title? I don't think so.
7
THE GOVERNOR: And the feds don't allow that, do
8 they?
9
MS. CASTILLE: I don't think so.
10
THE GOVERNOR: Do you have one more speaker?
11
MS. CASTILLE: And we have one more speaker, Mr. Bill
12 Roberts representing
the Association of Counties.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
14
MR. ROBERTS: Thank you, Governor and members of the
15 cabinet, I'm Bill
Roberts with the Florida Association of
16 Counties. We
were here four years ago talking about this
17 issue. As you
recall, those of you who were on the
18 cabinet at that time,
that you did adopt the policy which
19 the Association of
Counties brought to you on behalf of
20 Indian River and
Brevard counties. There are two
21 approaches there that
-- in answer to Commissioner
22 Bronson's comments --
that were very important to Indian
23 River County.
24
Indian River County raised the money to purchase the
25 lands from a revenue
bond issue which was funded by
their
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1 tourist development
tax. The holders of those bonds
2 raised the issue,
Well, why should you just give money to
3 the State to buy lands
and get nothing in return? In that
4 instance, it was not
the County coming to the State but
5 the State coming to
the County. And that project, I
6 think, was called the
Carson Flat purchase. The State was
7 going to pay 50
percent. The County, 25 percent and the
8 Water Management
District, 25 percent.
9
So the one issue that was discussed before the
10 governor and cabinet
was the bond obligations. The second
11 thing is Indian River
County had a lot of citizens who
12 were interested in
participating in the preservation of
13 this large tract of
land, 6,000 acres in the northern part
14 of the county which
is open for hunting. The county
15 simply wanted to put
a sign up and say, This property is
16 being protected by
the State of Florida, by the Water
17 Management District
and by Indian River County. Simply a
18 matter of public
policy of putting their money up,
19 $2 million in this
instance, and having the recognition
20 that they had
acquired something for it for the benefit of
21 the citizens.
22
I think all of the negative comments that have been
23 made can be easily
handled with management agreements.
24 There, again, it's an
opportunity to do something that we
25 haven't done before
and it would encouraged counties
to
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1 put up their money to
assist the State and the water
2 management districts
in acquiring the properties that are
3 already on the A and B
list. That both the attorney
4 general and the
general counsel for the Department back in
5 1999 could find no
legal reason why we couldn't do this.
6 We don't think there
is a logical reason why we shouldn't
7 do it. Thank
you.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you very much. Colleen.
9
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
10
THE GOVERNOR: I'm looking at the last person that
11 spoke. You
mentioned the fact that we looked at this
12 issue and -- four
years ago.
13
MS. CASTILLE: December 14, 1999.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Right. And it looks as though we
15 unanimously asked for
the Department to come up with rules
16 that would deal with
this issue that we wanted to pursue a
17 policy that gave us
the flexibility should we so desire to
18 do so.
19
MS. CASTILLE: Right. And --
20
THE GOVERNOR: Did you-all do it?
21
MS. CASTILLE: No, sir, I started that. That was my
22 opening comment about
the requirement that we go forward
23 with rules.
When we started moving forward with the
24 rules, we came up
with all of these problems with the
25 joint chair
title.
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1
THE GOVERNOR: Well, just out of curiosity since I'm
2 a little old and I've
got a lot of data that comes in
3 front of me all the
time, when we ask you to do something
4 and you don't do it,
isn't appropriate to come back to us
5 and tell us?
6
MS. CASTILLE: Well this is what we talked about
7 during session that we
would work on a set of rules. As
8 we started working on
the rules, we figured what we'll do
9 is a joint agreement
so that we can get a joint agreement
10 worked out. And
this is -- we're having concerns with
11 doing this.
12
THE GOVERNOR: In 1999, December, we asked you to get
13 back to us.
14
CFO GALLAGHER: Struhs.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Struhs, slash, Department. Colleen,
16 don't take it
personally. Eva, you might be able to take
17 it personally.
18
(Laughter.)
19
MS. ARMSTRONG: Let me help. Okay. In 1999, that
20 was like my fourth
month on the job here and I was still
21 in a major straight
up learning curve. A lot of things
22 changed from then and
now and we've become much more
23 sophisticated in a
number of areas in land acquisition.
24 The white paper that
was written in 1999 was written by a
25 man who worked on
office of environmental services
staff,
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1 who, let me assure you
was not an attorney. We have since
2 hired Sandra Stockwell
who is an expert in real estate law
3 and the best way to
describe what she did when she first
4 looked at the white
paper and I said, We're supposed to be
5 developing rules on
shared title, was start choking. She
6 said, No, this is not
worth the paper it's written on and
7 let me tell you
why. So she proceeded to educate us in
8 the challenges --
9
THE GOVERNOR: I'm just asking why she didn't educate
10 us.
11
MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, we can have her do that today
12 right now, if you'd
like.
13
THE GOVERNOR: It's a simple question.
14
MS. ARMSTRONG: So we became far more --
15
THE GOVERNOR: We may have misguided -- it could have
16 been a foolhardy
recommendation that we approved that we
17 do this. I
don't think it is. In 1999 --
18
MS. ARMSTRONG: In 1999 it was a lack of knowledge
19 recommendation in
1999, I'm here to admit. And we've
20 become more
educated. So rather than in the spring going
21 down the road of
developing a rule, I said, Wait. Let us
22 try one in reality
and so we have the contract.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Just asking a simple question. 1999
24 to 2004 is five
years. What happened in between now and
25 the
spring?
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1
MS. ARMSTRONG: We became educated in the
2 sophistication of real
estate law.
3
THE GOVERNOR: For the record, next time that we ask
4 incorrectly or
correctly for the Department to go through
5 rulemaking or to craft
a policy and there is a reason why
6 it can't be done, I
would suggest that you come back to us
7 and tell us that.
8
MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Not in five years.
10
MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. Yes, sir.
11
THE GOVERNOR: That's all I'm saying.
12
MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, sir.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: I have a question on this particular
14 piece.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Yes.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: There are mineral, gas, et cetera
17 rights that somebody
else has. Can you explain why that
18 is? I mean, is
that the way Palm Beach bought it or was
19 it on there before
Palm Beach bought it or what is the
20 deal?
21
MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, Palm Beach bought them. We
22 have a memo.
They're held by a third party. The
23 appraisers looked at
it and felt they didn't hold much
24 value because the
minerals aren't of much value and they
25 were not attributed
to value in the
purchase.
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1
CFO GALLAGHER: All right. But who holds them?
2
MS. ARMSTRONG: Third party.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Was that third party the person that
4 Palm Beach County
bought the land from?
5
MS. ARMSTRONG: No. Third party to that --
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Prior to that?
7
MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. Not the party that Palm
8 Beach bought it
from. Not the party that that held them
9 in -- yes, not the the
party that --
10
CFO GALLAGHER: So it's way back somewhere.
11
MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct.
12
MS. CASTILLE: To summarize, we have before us the
13 request to share
joint title and to share 50 percent of
14 the purchase and a
recommendation of denial from the
15 Agency. Through
our discussion, one of the options we
16 discussed was having
a 50/50 severance of title and
17 separate ownership
which would still meet the benefits of
18 the County option
which is to leverage both dollars and
19 would meet some of
the management desires that we have
20 which is to keep the
parcel in hunting as a legitimate use
21 for the property,
managed use for the property. And Fish
22 and Wildlife
Conservation Commission has agreed to manage
23 the property in
addition to Hungryland Slough if that's
24 what your choice
is. Or alternatively you can --
25
THE GOVERNOR: So you're proposing, as
an
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1 alternative, something
the County, I believe the
2 representative of the
County said they won't accept.
3
MS. CASTILLE: They have since came back to us and
4 said they will not
accept it at today's meeting.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I have a motion I'll make. And
6 that is that we deny
this as it sits and allow you to go
7 renegotiate with the
County and our aides as to what the
8 future should be with
this property.
9
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
10
THE GOVERNOR: So it's a denial with an admonition to
11 go forth and see
either through a conversation easement or
12 some other means.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Right.
14
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Any
15 other
discussion? Without objection, Treasurer
16 Gallagher's motion
passes. So there is a denial of the
17 request and --
18
MS. CASTILLE: Direction to move forward.
19
THE GOVERNOR: -- direction to go forward. And I
20 would add that I
don't have a problem doing -- I just --
21 maybe the -- your
colleague that believes that having
22 50/50 arrangements
with counties is impossible, I'd like
23 to have an
explanation about that. I'm not opposed to
24 this as a means, you
know, one other means of -- like
25 conservation
easements, another means of extending
the
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1 reach of
conservation. We should use whatever means are
2 appropriate for each
on a case by case basis. So if there
3 is a problem, let's
have a conversation about them on a
4 broader context.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: I don't mind the conversation. But
6 for the record, I have
major reservations about doing it
7 and maybe when we hear
the conservation, I might switch to
8 the other side.
9
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. Shall we schedule another
10 discussion on the
major policy?
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Right.
12
MS. CASTILLE: Okay.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Or you can come to our offices and
14 talk about it.
You don't have to take up -- maybe two of
15 us don't want to hear
about it, I wouldn't blame them.
16
THE GOVERNOR: That might be a good first step.
17
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. We will do that. Thank you,
18 Governor, members of
the cabinet. That is our last item.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Halleluiah.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Colleen.
21
22
23
24
25
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11-9-04
89
1
THE GOVERNOR: State Board of Administration.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, Item 1
passes.
6
MR. STIPANOVICH: Good morning, Governor, members.
7
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
8
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item No. 2 is a request for
9 approval of fiscal
sufficiency of amount not exceeding
10 36,500,000 State of
Florida, Florida Education System,
11 Florida International
University Housing facility revenue
12 bonds --
13
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
14
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
15
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
16 Without objection,
Item 2 passes.
17
THE WITNESS: Item 3 is a request for fiscal
18 sufficiency of an
amount not exceeding 24,500,000, State
19 of Florida --
20
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
21
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
22
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
23 Without objection,
Item 3 passes.
24
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item No. 4 is a request for
25 approval of fiscal
sufficiency of an amount not
exceeding
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11-9-04
90
1 13,550,000 State of
Florida, Florida Education System,
2 University of Central
Florida parking lot facility revenue
3 bonds.
4
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: There's motion and a second. Without
7 objection, Item 4
passes.
8
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item No. 5 is a request for
9 approval of fiscal
sufficiency of amount not exceeding
10 5,350,000 --
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
12
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
14 Without objection
Item 5 passes.
15
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 6, request approval of fiscal
16 sufficiency
determination -- was there a motion, Governor?
17
THE GOVERNOR: I didn't hear it. Fight on. Item 6
18 is a what?
19
MR. STIPANOVICH: Okay. Request for approval of
20 fiscal determination
of amount not exceeding 39,285,000
21 tax exempt Florida
Housing Finance Corporation multifamily
22 mortgage revenue
refunding bonds.
23
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
24
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
25
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a
second.
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91
1 Without objection, the
item passes.
2
(Thereupon, the proceedings concluded at 11:15 a.m.)
3
4
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8
9
10
11
12
13
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92
1
2
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
5 COUNTY OF LEON )
6
7
I, KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter, certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at
the time and
9 place therein designated; that my shorthand notes
were
10
thereafter translated under my supervision; and the foregoing
11
pages numbered 1 through 90 are a true and correct record of
12
the aforesaid proceedings.
13
14
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee,
15
attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative
16
or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel
17
connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in
18
the action.
19
DATED this 22nd day of November, 2004.
20
______________________________
21
KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court
Reporter
Notary Public
22
850-878-2221
23
24
25
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Cabinet
Affairs
