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                         The above agencies came to be heard before
               THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding, in the
               Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida,
               on the 21st day of September, 2004, commencing at approximately
               9:30 a.m.


                                        Reported by:

                                     KRISTEN L. BENTLEY
                                  Certified Court Reporter


                             ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                  2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE
                           TALLAHASSEE, FL  32308   (850)878-2221




                         Representing the Florida Cabinet:

                         JEB BUSH

                         CHARLES H. BRONSON
                         Commissioner of Agriculture

                         CHARLIE CRIST
                         Attorney General

                         TOM GALLAGHER
                         Chief Financial Officer

                                           * * *

















                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.


                                          I N D E X

               (Presented by BEN WATKINS)
               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE
               1                     Approved                  5
               2                     Approved                  5
               3                     Approved                  5
               4                     Approved                  6
               5                     Approved                  6
               6                     Approved                  6

               (Presented by DON SAXON)
               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                  7

               (Presented by James Zingale)
               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                  8
               2                     Approved                 11
               3                     Approved                 12
               4                     Approved                 12
               5                     Approved                 17

               (Presented by Fred Dickinson)
               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                 18
               2                     Approved                 19
               3                     Approved                 20
               4                     Approved                 22
               5                     Approved                 22
               6                     Approved                 25
               7                     Approved                 28

               (Presented by Heather Smith)

               1                     Approved                 30
               2                     Approved                 30
               3                     Approved                 31

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.


               (Presented by Teresa Tinker)

               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                 32
               2                     Approved                 65

               (Presented by Teresa Tinker)

               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                 66
               2                     Approved                 66

               BOARD OF TRUSTEES
               (Presented by Colleen Castille)

               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                 67
               2                     Approved                 74
               3                     Deferred                109
               4                     Approved                 79
               5                     Approved                 80
               6                     Approved                 86
               7                     Approved                 91
               8                     Approved                 95
               9                     Approved                 96
               10                    Deferred                 97
               11                    Approved                101
               12                    Approved                104
               13                    Approved                108

               (Presented by Coleman Stipanovich)
               ITEM                  ACTION                 PAGE

               1                     Approved                109
               2                     Approved                109
               3                     Approved                109
               4                     Approved                110



                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                        DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 9/21/04

          1                              PROCEEDINGS

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  The next cabinet meeting will be

          3         Tuesday, October 5th, 2004.

          4              Division of Bond Finance.

          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on the minutes.

          6              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Item 1

          8         is approved without objection.

          9              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 2 is a resolution authorizing

         10         the competitive sale of up to $100 million in PECO bonds.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

         12              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         14         objection, the motion passes.

         15              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 3 is a resolution authorizing

         16         the competitive sale of up to approximately $364 million

         17         of Turnpike revenue bonds.

         18              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

         19              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         21         objection, the motion passes.

         22              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 4 is a resolution that does

         23         two things.  First, it authorizes the competitive sale of

         24         up to 12 and a half million dollars of new money bonds for

         25         a parking facility at University of South Florida.  And,

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                        DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE - 9/21/04

          1         secondly, it authorizes the issuance and competitive sale

          2         of up to $3.9 million in refunding bonds for debt service

          3         savings.

          4              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 4.

          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

          7         objection, the motion passes.

          8              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 5 is a resolution authorizing

          9         the redemption prior to maturity of Jacksonville

         10         Transportation Authority bonds.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         13         objection, the motion passes.

         14              MR. WATKINS:  And Item No. 6 is a report of award on

         15         the competitive sale of $200 million in PECO bonds.  The

         16         bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a true interest

         17         cost of approximately 4.60 percent.

         18              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 6.

         19              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         21         objection, the motion passes.

         22              Thank you, Ben.




                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                      FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION - 9/7/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Financial Services Commission.  Office

          2         of Financial Regulation.

          3              Good morning, Don.

          4              MR. NORTHAM:  Good morning, Governor, members of the

          5         cabinet.  Adoption of Amendments to Rule 69V-40.205 and

          6         69V-40.225, Florida Administrative Code.

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on Item 1.

          8              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         10         objection, the item passes.  Thank you, sir.
















                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Department of Revenue.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Item 1

          5         is passed without objection.

          6              Item 2.

          7              DR. ZINGALE:  This is going to go a little slower.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  That's fine.

          9              DR. ZINGALE:  We have four items on the agenda today.

         10         The four items primarily deal with planning, budgeting,

         11         capital facilities, and our performance contract.  I've

         12         got a small little intro and then we'll take up No. 2.

         13         Glasses are required.

         14              We spend about four months going out and critically

         15         evaluating our planning system, our measurement system,

         16         our budgeting system with some of our friends in the

         17         private sector.  That caused this kind of a

         18         characterization of each of those documents that we have

         19         in here.  We felt after that evaluation that our budget

         20         system was pretty solid.  We were identifying minimal

         21         critical needs that needed to be brought forward.  Our

         22         capital facility plan is no big deal, not a whole lot of

         23         effort is put into it.  It's kind of minimalistic at best.

         24              Our strategic plan that's embedded in here is pretty

         25         weak.  Our operating plan, what is usually used in the

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         private sector to transform your strategic plan down to

          2         where the employees are doing the work didn't exist.  And

          3         our measurement system, while adequate, really didn't

          4         challenge the organization to move forward in a direction.

          5         What we were doing very well is we did have really strong

          6         strategic initiatives that didn't really flow from the

          7         planning process.  We looked at the big things we wanted

          8         to get done and we broke them out as strategic initiatives

          9         and we really planned by strategic initiative.

         10              We took most of the last six months, knowing that the

         11         plans in front of you today are for '05/'06.  Budget for

         12         '05/'06 has to be taken in front of the Legislature.  But

         13         the underlying planning framework is really nine months

         14         away with an internal goal to try to dramatically revamp

         15         each of these pieces so that when July 1 of next fiscal

         16         year starts, we will have meaningful stretch goals in all

         17         of our programs.  It will go down to line employees so

         18         they know what their contribution is.  And we will be

         19         rolling out the first ever operating plan in the

         20         Department of Revenue so we can have some assurances that

         21         site managers and line employees know what we are doing.

         22              We're kind of enthusiastic about the outcome of that

         23         undertaking.  You will see that as we go through this year

         24         knowing that most of what you see in here doesn't take

         25         place until July 1 of '05/'06.  So with that background as

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         it is, we're going to take up Item No. 2 which is our LBR

          2         request for next year.

          3              The overall LBR request last year is slightly less in

          4         total dollars than in the previous year both in terms of

          5         general revenue, down about .3 percent, about a half a

          6         million less.  And in total spending, about $300,000 less.

          7         Our key priorities, the top five all have to do with

          8         technology.  The remaining two-and-a-half years on our

          9         SUNTAX transformation is in this mix and phase one and

         10         phase two of our child support system, the entire child

         11         support system is funded by either federal dollars or

         12         federal incentive dollars.  So there is no general revenue

         13         embedded in that.

         14              Six through ten are very small items and I wouldn't

         15         count them as very critical.  The last four are really

         16         things that are partners, the SDU and our Dade County

         17         child support office down there that's run by the state

         18         attorney down there.  These are really issues we have to

         19         put in our budget for other agencies.  I would like to

         20         push a little help for Dade County.  They're asking for

         21         some space and they are asking for some positions.  They

         22         do need some help down there.  But our budget requests are

         23         primarily, like you've seen from us the last few years,

         24         very, very slight reductions, highly driven by technology.

         25         We hope in a very short period of time us coming back

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         again for some more position reductions.  So with your

          2         permission, I would like to see the budget request

          3         approved or do you have any questions?

          4              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion on 3.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion.

          6              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  And a second.  Any discussion?

          8              GENERAL CRIST:  Thank you, Governor.  I just want to

          9         commend Dr. Zingale.  Our office has the opportunity to

         10         work with the department on child support enforcement

         11         which we think is awfully important.  The work you people

         12         do in conjunction with our office we are very grateful for

         13         and appreciative for.

         14              DR. ZINGALE:  Appreciate that.  Thank you.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  All in

         16         favor say aye.

         17              (Aye.)

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  I abstain so I can submit my own

         19         budget.  I think that's what I'm supposed to say.

         20              DR. ZINGALE:  Item 3 is our long-term capital

         21         facility plan, really thick document.  Again, only two

         22         things in this very long document.  One is an anticipation

         23         that maybe with the final repeal some day of the

         24         intangible tax at least some of our improvements, we

         25         expect to see fewer Department of Revenue employees as we

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         go through time.  But our major issue that's in here is

          2         we've been working with Mr. Simon from DMS in the hopes

          3         that sometime in the next three years our site here in

          4         Tallahassee, Tax World, that probably wouldn't have

          5         withstood a 90-mile-an-hour wind coming through last week,

          6         will be collocated and moved out to Southwood and we've

          7         been working with Star Buck Enterprises in terms of making

          8         that happen.  We have some DRI things going forward.

          9         That's the only thing of any significance in the long-term

         10         plan.  If there is not any questions, I would request

         11         approval of Item 3.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

         13              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Any

         15         discussion?  Without objection, the item passes.

         16              DR. ZINGALE:  Item 3 is that --

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  Item 4.

         18              DR. ZINGALE:  Oh, excuse me.  Item 4 is our

         19         long-range plan.  And this was the document I referred to

         20         as fairly weak in terms of something we hoped to be

         21         showing you as this year progresses.  So I'm primarily

         22         only going to highlight in this document the major

         23         initiatives that are undergoing now and will continue out

         24         for the next couple of years.  On the general tax side,

         25         the new computer system is fully matured.  To date we have

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         spent $61.1 million over the last five years.  We've got a

          2         return on investment today, FTE savings, revenue

          3         generation, productivity increases, 280 million while

          4         we've been building the system.  The phase that we are

          5         entering in now is moving into the data warehouse, the

          6         case management tools.  And we expect to see each year's

          7         annual investment produce three to four times rate of

          8         return on that investment since we're back into dealing

          9         with the enforcement systems and the management tools that

         10         will let us get more productivity out of our employees.

         11              So on the general tax side, it's primarily all driven

         12         by technology.  On the child support side, we are looking

         13         at fairly radical initiatives down the road that shift

         14         from judicial back into administrative, that leverage the

         15         benefits of CAMS 1 (phonetic), the backend enforcement new

         16         computer system, to free up resources that we can deploy

         17         to the front end of the system.

         18              You see an extension of the initiatives that have

         19         been going around for some time, produced a billion

         20         dollars worth of collections last year, that's a

         21         substantial increase in 11 percent last year.  So we

         22         expect those initiatives to continue to get us as we

         23         pledged in a very short time to the top five in the

         24         country.

         25              On the property tax side, a difficult task at best,

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         where our job is to regulate property appraisers in terms

          2         of the quality of their role that they bring forward, this

          3         last year and this next year coming up, we are continuing

          4         our effort on both of our in-depth and non-indepth roles

          5         to expand the number of statistical tools we have

          6         available.  We used to have one statistical tool for the

          7         in-depth side, one statistical tool for the non-indepth

          8         side.  Kind of boring stuff.  We have seven tools now on

          9         both of them to apply to the roles.  And we have a major

         10         initiative coming up to work on quality control in our

         11         field work.

         12              If you would look at all of our programs, I think we

         13         have identified a major initiative is this total revamping

         14         of our planning system and our measurement system in a

         15         manner where we can come in front of you with some very

         16         aggressive long-term goals.  Not some, Let's limp forward

         17         next year and do a little better than we did, but very

         18         aggressive in all of our programs, with meaningful

         19         measures that will drive down into our organization.

         20              We have going underway right now, taking the measures

         21         that we have come up so far and driving them down in the

         22         line employee performance evaluations, something we

         23         observed in the private sector but haven't been able to

         24         achieve yet in the Department of Revenue.

         25              So you have a plan that is going to go through a

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         major revision between now and '05/'06 starting.  And we'd

          2         be more than happy to, as that development wants to work

          3         with you collectively or individually, to show you the

          4         progress.  We'll have to sell a lot of that to the

          5         Legislature if they are going to allow us to proceed in

          6         that direction.  We are the only agency that I do know

          7         that is funded by core business process.  And so we're

          8         kind of hoping these tools will allow the Legislature to

          9         want to have us be managed in this direction.  So with

         10         your permission, I request approval of Item 4.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

         12              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Any

         14         discussion?

         15              Without objection, the motion passes.

         16              DR. ZINGALE:  Item 5 is the annual performance

         17         contract.  And I hate to say it, but I think I kind of

         18         branded this one also as weak.  There are good measures in

         19         here, not nearly enough measures that I believe we could

         20         give you a clear picture of what's going on.  You can kind

         21         of see on the first page of the measure we do have a

         22         measure that says, The dollars collected voluntarily,

         23         because our primary goal is to try to get taxpayers to

         24         voluntarily pay the correct amount of tax as a percentage

         25         of total dollars collected.  This is always one of those

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         strange ones.  As SUNTAX got substantially more efficient

          2         at the enforcement side, our taxes that come in from

          3         nonvoluntarily compliance went up.  We brought in about

          4         300, $258 million more money this year from our

          5         enforcement efforts than we did in the prior year.  And

          6         when you do that, that causes this measure to be slightly

          7         below standard, nothing to do with performance.  It had to

          8         do with the economy and how well we are performing.  If

          9         you look further down the line, one that we got behind on,

         10         which is below standard on the average number of days to

         11         resolve a dispute from an audit, we had been making major

         12         progress.  We moved in the opposite direction.  We have an

         13         action plan to bring that in goal fairly soon.

         14              The only other one below standard, I don't consider a

         15         very good measure.  But it was only .3 percent under and

         16         that measure had to do with the number of stratum that a

         17         property appraiser presents in excess of 90 percent.  Most

         18         of these measures, to be honest with you, were fairly easy

         19         to achieve.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  You're an honest man, Zingale.

         21              DR. ZINGALE:  Well, we want to do better than that.

         22         They were chosen in negotiation with the Legislature and

         23         were fairly easy to achieve.  We want to hopefully present

         24         a measurement system this year that's very difficulty to

         25         achieve but is challenging and we're working hard to

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                         DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE - 9/21/04

          1         present that and we'll report back to you in terms of how

          2         the Legislature takes that.  So with your permission, I

          3         would like my performance contract approved.

          4              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

          5              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          7         Without objection, the motion passes.

          8              Thank you, Jim.

          9              DR. ZINGALE:  Thank you very much.

















                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Department of Highway Safety and Motor

          2         Vehicles.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes of the February

          4         26th, March 9th, and March 30th --

          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second on

          7         Item 1.  Without objection, the motion passes.

          8              MR. DICKINSON:  Item 2 is our quarterly report for

          9         the quarter ending March of this year.  It's a pretty good

         10         start to our calendar year.  We had a big increase in our

         11         number of driver license and motor vehicle customers in

         12         the offices, on the Net, and on the phones.  Increased

         13         emphasis on motor vehicle dealers.  Inspections and the

         14         mobile home inspections that we performed statewide for

         15         every mobile home that's either constructed here in

         16         Florida or offered for sale in this state.  That was

         17         fairly timely with what we've been through the last two

         18         months.

         19              We started a new program that requires 80-year-olds

         20         or anybody over the age of 79 to be vision-tested every

         21         time they renew, not only when they come in the office.

         22         Today everybody that comes in the office is vision-tested.

         23         But those that renew by mail, phone, or Internet do not do

         24         the vision test.  We have now put together a plan where

         25         they also provide us with a vision test and we put a

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         little web-based plan for the doctors to submit to us of

          2         that testing.  The doctors for the elderly are also

          3         elderly and they are not computer literate and have told

          4         us in no uncertain terms they're not going to use it.  But

          5         fortunately in that quarter only 258 were revoked.  About

          6         86 percent were approved and just 13 percent had to be

          7         referred for new prescriptions or whatever.  So it seems

          8         to be working.  We have not heard any complaints.

          9              For that quarter, we had less fatalities and we

         10         started our Operation Safe Ride which is a statewide burst

         11         we're going to do every so often to try to target

         12         aggressive driving throughout the state.  Those are some

         13         of the highlights from the first quarter, Governor.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  Is there a motion?

         15              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

         16              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  There is a motion and a second to

         18         accept the report.  Without objection, it is accepted.

         19              MR. DICKINSON:  Item 3 is our quarterly report for

         20         the quarter ending June '04.  More customers again.  We

         21         also began the rollout of our new driver's license that

         22         has been before you on more than one occasion.  We are now

         23         doing central issuance process, those that come through

         24         the Internet or those that are noncitizens that come in

         25         our office and go through that 30-day delay.  We're

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         processing over 7,000 a day.  It is working well.  We

          2         should be doing our performance testing starting next week

          3         or in the coming weeks and roll out through the fall.  And

          4         in addition, we had 18 troopers recognized by MADD as

          5         members of the 100 Club.  Those are troopers who make 100

          6         or more arrests in the previous calendar year.  And Ronald

          7         J. Evans made 300 arrests, one of our troopers.  You know

          8         how many days we work in a calendar year.  So to make 300

          9         DUI arrests in a calendar year is pretty spectacular.

         10              CFO GALLAGHER:  Would you tell us which roads he's

         11         covering so --

         12              (Laughter.)

         13              MR. DICKINSON:  Polk County.  Imperial Polk County,

         14         excuse me.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Is there a motion?

         16              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

         17              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second to

         19         accept the report, quarterly report, for the quarter

         20         ending June 2004.  Without objection, the report is

         21         accepted.

         22              MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, Item 4 is the performance

         23         contract for this year past.  The good news is we did meet

         24         50 of our 67 standards, about a 75 percent goal.  And as

         25         you're well aware, some of our standards are not totally

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         within our control but we are pleased to report that the

          2         death rate, that's the fatality per 100 million miles

          3         traveled, dropped to an all-time low in Florida of 1.7.

          4         The national rate is 1.5 but we've always been about .4 to

          5         a half a point above the national rate.  So we're

          6         shrinking that difference.  That is good.  That is

          7         substantially lower than the goal we set of 1.85.

          8              The crash data had some very positive trends.  We had

          9         just under 3 percent less crashes, 3 and a half percent

         10         less injuries and 3 percent less property damage.  We did

         11         have more people, unfortunately, were fatals on our

         12         highways than ever before.  But as that tells you, we just

         13         got more people driving.

         14              Alcohol-related crashes were up a little bit.  As I

         15         said, fatalities were up about 8 percent.  Increase in a

         16         lot of our fatalities are pedestrians and motorcycles.

         17         Motorcycles up 23 percent.  Pedestrians up almost a little

         18         over 5 percent.  We lead the nation, unfortunately, in

         19         pedestrian and bicycle deaths and we're working with DOT

         20         on that as we speak.  Pretty much met most of our other

         21         standards.  Seat belt compliance at an all-time high of

         22         72.6 percent.  Standard we were trying to achieve was

         23         67 percent.  So we did well in those categories.

         24              THE GOVERNOR:  Is there a motion?

         25              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  Motion and second.  Without

          3         objection -- Item 4 is accepted.  The report is accepted.

          4              MR. DICKINSON:  Next year, I'll probably lump these

          5         up like Jim Zingale did, but this is the next year's

          6         performance contract or I guess the current year.  We

          7         developed this in conjunction with the legislative

          8         appropriation staff and other budgeted entities as

          9         approved in the past by the Legislature and signed by the

         10         Governor under the General Appropriations Act.

         11              Several standards were changed from the prior year or

         12         eliminated.  But basically, we're trying to reflect some

         13         trends and some budget forecasts that are coming that we

         14         are trying to comply with.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Is there a motion?

         16              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion.

         17              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Motion and second.  Without objection,

         19         the report is accepted.

         20              Item 6.

         21              MR. DICKINSON:  Item 6 is our legislative package,

         22         Governor, and we have not had success in the legislative

         23         package that we have in some other areas.  We haven't been

         24         able to get our legislative bill through for the last two

         25         years.  So it really looks the same as I've been before

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         you the last two years.  I would like to point out -- I

          2         know Commissioner Bronson will be interested in this -- we

          3         have a problem with Class D licenses when you're driving a

          4         vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of over 8,000

          5         pounds.  Currently -- what has happened, basically,

          6         Governor, is the weight of these vehicles has increased

          7         more than our ability to keep up through the licensing

          8         process.  We're suggesting to eliminate the Class D, as in

          9         dog, license which is the chauffeur's license, the old

         10         chauffeur's license.

         11              It really doesn't serve any purpose in today's world.

         12         We will still have our commercial driver's licenses plus

         13         your Class E license and all the Class Ds would slide back

         14         in that category.  But if you're driving a truck or an SUV

         15         of over 8,000 pounds DVWR, which is a Ford 250, a Chevy

         16         2500, a Hummer, these are the cars that are over the 8,000

         17         pounds, for your personal convenience, if you drive it,

         18         you do not need to get the Class D driver's license.  We

         19         had that in the bill last year.  It did not pass.  And I

         20         think, quite frankly, there's going to be a separate bill

         21         in addition to the Department bill that will fly on this.

         22         And from what I hear, a number of legislators are

         23         interested in doing it quite early.

         24              THE GOVERNOR:  Yeah, the ones that have cars like

         25         that?

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, sir.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  Representative Johnson going to

          3         sponsor it?  I always drive by his Hummer --

          4              MR. DICKINSON:  We don't have a problem with

          5         sponsors.  They're coming out of the woodwork on it.

          6              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  If I could, Governor, the

          7         thing that brought this to my attention was we had people

          8         who had little one and two-horse trailers hooked to their

          9         vehicles were being stopped, and many of them by DOT

         10         officers, and ticketed.  And that's about $173 ticket for

         11         not having a Class D license.  The big problem here was

         12         and what I talked to Fred about was I don't know a single

         13         car dealer who sells an Escalade or one of the more -- the

         14         bigger SUVs are telling anybody they got to have a Class D

         15         license to drive it, whether you hook a trailer to it or

         16         not.  And so a lot of housewives are getting a lot of

         17         tickets because they don't have -- and wives of farmers

         18         and so forth who drive these bigger vehicles to haul

         19         supplies back and forth to the farm are getting ticketed.

         20         And I just didn't think it was fair if they weren't being

         21         warned ahead of time that they've got to go take a special

         22         test just to drive that vehicle.

         23              So I appreciate Fred working with us on that.  I

         24         think it will solve that problem.

         25              THE GOVERNOR:  Is there a motion?

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

          2              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          3              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second to

          4         accept the legislative package for the Department 2005.

          5         Without objection, it is accepted.

          6              MR. DICKINSON:  Item 7 is our Department LBR,

          7         legislative budget request.  Governor, this is about a

          8         4 percent increase request over the current year.  And

          9         most all of it is for technology or very few personnel.

         10         You're probably familiar with most of it, the funding on

         11         the nonrecurring monies is for driver's license contract,

         12         which is a little higher than the old one, trooper

         13         overtime, motor vehicles, and gasoline and maintenance.

         14         And the last couple, I'd like to reflect on a moment.

         15              DMS has a standard, if you will, for 75,000 miles for

         16         pursuit vehicles.  We have an inordinate amount of

         17         vehicles over that.  And I think all of you -- and you-all

         18         have law enforcement under you -- are running into the

         19         same problem.  With the gas price going up and right now

         20         we are only budgeted for a buck 58 at the pump.  And so

         21         you see how long ago that was changed.  We're asking for a

         22         little added money there.  But I am alarmed at how much

         23         our maintenance costs have gone up.  And we're asking for

         24         just about as much money in increased maintenance costs as

         25         we are for the increased gas.  And that is all lumped in

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         with our budget request.

          2              This year we were fortunate enough to get some,

          3         couple million, to handle that.  But we're getting to a

          4         point where I think it probably needs to go into the base.

          5         But every year we do have to request that.  Our fleet is

          6         growing older and less reliable.  Maintenance costs, as I

          7         mentioned, sky high.  We do have a salary adjustment.

          8         We're asking you, Governor, for a critical class

          9         acknowledgement of our motor services people.  These are

         10         the folks on the front line who are making a whopping

         11         $20,000 a year and serve 50,000 customers a day.  And this

         12         is -- they have been hit hard since 9/11.

         13              Quite frankly, our times, our waiting times, are a

         14         little longer in our driver's license offices and we are

         15         trying to address that.  You've given us, through your

         16         leadership, some go-ahead for some technological changes

         17         that will be coming on board the latter part of this year.

         18         But we'd like to recognize those folks.  We have some

         19         fixed capital outlay issues that we'd like to address that

         20         are also embedded in there.

         21              And we do have the funding sources, Governor, we've

         22         tried to stay away from the general revenue drain.  As a

         23         matter of fact, our trust fund has been used to try to

         24         help in those deficits over the last five or six years.

         25         So we hope to continue to do that.

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              The hurricanes have changed the landscape for what's

          2         going on right now.  Our numbers are not going to look

          3         near as good, none of them are next year, and we all know

          4         that.  Our guys have been stretched pretty thin as all of

          5         yours have.  I was out on a tractor yesterday,

          6         Commissioner Bronson, and I just mowed this pasture a

          7         couple of weeks ago and it's amazing how the ant hills

          8         were back up in it and that's what we've got out there is

          9         an army of ants, not only at our local EOC, but out there

         10         in Pensacola, in Gulf Breeze and in all of these towns.

         11         And I'd just like to say thanks to you for your leadership

         12         and thanks to all our people who are out there.  Our guys

         13         had about a one-day break between Charley and Frances and

         14         about two or three days between this last one.  Everybody

         15         is a little bit weary but they look like ants.  I mean,

         16         we're rebuilding, the waves may wash us away but we're

         17         going to rebuild that ant hill as quickly as possible.

         18              Like I said, we're asking for a little flexibility in

         19         this budget to where we can anticipate for some of those

         20         contingencies in the future.

         21              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 7.

         22              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

         24         Treasurer?

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  I have a question.  Not on 7.

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  There's a motion and a second.

          2         All in favor say aye.

          3              (Aye.)

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  I abstain for purposes of submitting

          5         my own budget to the Florida Legislature.

          6              Yes, Treasurer.

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  My question is on your dealings with

          8         certain HAZMAT licenses, we have a clemency case coming up

          9         on Thursday where an applicant has three prior felony

         10         arrests, arson convictions.  He recently flipped a

         11         tractor-trailer containing 40,000 gallons of milk yet he

         12         still has a valid HAZMAT endorsement.  And I'm concerned

         13         that maybe we should have some legislation that would sort

         14         of keep that from happening here in Florida.

         15              MR. DICKINSON:  Treasurer, we have a new HAZMAT --

         16         actually, it was an outcropping, if you will, of the

         17         Patriot Act.  And July 31st of '05, we will begin the

         18         federal HAZMAT program which means a background check,

         19         fingerprint, the works, the vetting, through several

         20         agencies.  That legislation does include the ability for

         21         our state to come in and take action in instances such as

         22         this.

         23              Quite frankly, when it was brought up by your staff a

         24         little earlier, we were wondering why this wasn't covered

         25         and we probably should have passed something in the past

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                      DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY - 9/21/04

          1         to cover this.  But it's always been a federal program

          2         that we've relied upon.  If we don't have the legislation

          3         right now, we know we have the authority, we think the

          4         federal legislation knocks that particular case and others

          5         out.  And I'll have you a little more detailed report

          6         later in the week on that.  But right now it looks like he

          7         will be knocked out under those set of facts.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you, Fred.

          9              MR. DICKINSON:  Thank you, Governor.

















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                        DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Department of Law Enforcement.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          5         Without objection, Item 1 passes.

          6              Item 2.

          7              MS. SMITH:  First, let me send regrets from

          8         Commissioner Tunnell, he is in Pensacola with the recovery

          9         efforts there, including our office building, all 90

         10         employees are having to be relocated into, right now the

         11         Escambia County Sheriff's Office, about 4800 square feet

         12         of space.  He expresses apologies for not being here.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  That building -- that may be an

         14         opportunity rather than a problem.

         15              MS. SMITH:  Absolutely.  Item No. 2, we respectfully

         16         submit for approval our '03/'04 annual performance report

         17         and our contracts, purchases, and agreements over 100,000,

         18         for the period April 1st through June 30th, 2004.

         19              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on two.

         20              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

         22         Without objection, the item passes.  Would you like to say

         23         something about it or are you just --

         24              UNIDENTIFIED:  I think this is running very smoothly,

         25         thank you.

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                        DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT - 9/21/04

          1              (Laughter.)

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  We're good to go then.  Thank you.

          3         Item 3.

          4              UNIDENTIFIED:  Item 3, we respectfully request

          5         approval of our FDLE proposed legislative budget for

          6         '05/'06.

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

          8              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  All in

         10         favor say aye.

         11              (Aye.)

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  I abstain for purposes of submitting

         13         my own budget to the Florida Legislature.  Thank you.

         14              UNIDENTIFIED:  Thank you.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Well done.

         16              UNIDENTIFIED:  Appreciate that.










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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Administration Commission.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          5         Without objection, Item 1 passes.

          6              Item 2, Teresa.  Good morning.

          7              MS. TINKER:  Good morning.  Item 2 in the

          8         Administration Commission, request authorization to enter

          9         the draft final order and we have speakers on this issue.

         10         The first speaker is Robert Gardner, Jr., representing the

         11         Petitioners.

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  Do we have some time?  How many people

         13         are going to speak?

         14              MS. TINKER:  We have five people to speak.  And I'll

         15         ask that they limit their time to two or three minutes

         16         each.

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Good morning, sir.

         18              MR. GARDNER:  Good morning, Governor, commissioners,

         19         ladies and gentlemen.  My name is Robert P. Gardner, Jr.

         20         I reside at 1529 Oakhaven Road in Jacksonville, Florida.

         21         I'm here to speak on the Wal-Mart issue.  I'm co-counsel

         22         with Mr. Ansbacher who was unable to attend this morning.

         23              For purposes of the record, I was handed, just

         24         moments before I walked in here, a revised draft final

         25         order totally different from the one that we received in

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         advance.  I haven't had a chance to even look at it or

          2         respond to it and at this juncture I'm told there is a

          3         possibility that Mr. Sanders may or may not offer it.  On

          4         the chance that he might, I would object to it under due

          5         process requirements of notice and at least a right to

          6         respond.  He's had more than two weeks.  And to hand this

          7         to me one minute before I walk in the door is

          8         unacceptable.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Teresa, can you come back?

         10              MS. TINKER:  Just to clarify, Governor, the proposed

         11         draft that he's talking about is not the staff's

         12         recommended order.  The staff's recommendation is to

         13         basically adopt the Hearing Officer's findings and

         14         conclusions and the Hearing Officer's recommended order.

         15         There is another order floating out there.  We just

         16         received it ourselves this morning, have not had a chance

         17         to look at it.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Well, that's -- go ahead.

         19              MR. GARDNER:  Procedurally, for the record, I would

         20         object to it, but I'm going to go ahead and I don't know

         21         how to respond to it because I haven't had an opportunity

         22         to even read it.  However, it's our position that this

         23         proposed zoning is wrong.  It was from the outset.  It is

         24         today.  And I think it would be in the future.  Based

         25         specifically on the fact that there is a church that's

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         more than 100 years old immediately adjacent to the

          2         property in question.  From the site plan that was

          3         presented, the back of this Wal-Mart store would butt

          4         right up to the church.  The church would look at a

          5         Wal-Mart loading dock and garbage receptacle.  We say

          6         that, in of itself makes it not appropriate.  It's also

          7         not appropriate for our neighborhood.

          8              Ironically, a similar zoning, which was directly

          9         across the street diagonally was turned down by the zoning

         10         commission.  It was for a residential piece of property

         11         that they were seeking to have rezoned for professional

         12         office space which is a less restrictive than the

         13         neighborhood commercial that they are asking for the

         14         Wal-Mart.  I would submit to you that Judge Alexander,

         15         after a two-day hearing, he took testimony and evidence of

         16         witnesses, including experts.  He's an erudite judge who's

         17         been on the bench, I'm told, 18 years, very knowledgeable

         18         in zoning matters.  He ruled in his recommended order that

         19         the City did not comply with their own 2010 comprehensive

         20         plan.

         21              I would submit to you that it was remanded.  An issue

         22         arose, the City reclassified Bartram Road as a collector.

         23         At the time the initial hearing was had, it was a local

         24         road.  It was remanded.  Judge Alexander considered that

         25         road a revised order, same result.  It's not in

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         compliance.  I would urge the commission to follow the

          2         judge's recommended order and I thank you.

          3              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you very much.

          4              MS. TINKER:  The next speaker on behalf of the

          5         Petitioners is councilwoman Lynnette Self of the City of

          6         Jacksonville.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  Good morning.

          8              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Good morning, Governor and

          9         cabinet and thank you for this opportunity.  This has been

         10         quite a volatile issue in our district.  But I just wanted

         11         to state a few things.  Number one, I support your staff's

         12         recommendation.  The land use for this property is as it

         13         should be today, it's RPI.  RPI land use in Jacksonville

         14         is for professional offices, could be for apartments.

         15         What we're asking here is for a 24/7 use.  That is the

         16         wrong use, I don't care if it's a Wal-Mart, I don't care

         17         if it's a Winn-Dixie.  It's not the person, it's not the

         18         zoning, it's the use of the land.  Our comprehensive plan

         19         states that the developed or developable land areas of the

         20         confluence of collector or highway classified roadways

         21         which are suitable for medium to high densities.  Your

         22         judge, the DOAH judge, stated that this particular piece

         23         of property is not suitable.  It's not suitable to

         24         increase the intensity of it.

         25              When this comprehensive plan was put together back in

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         early '90s, a line was drawn at Bartram Road.  And that

          2         line says, This is where we stop with the intense

          3         commercial use.  That's what I'm here to oppose today,

          4         that we do not bring any more of an intense use past

          5         Bartram Road.  I too just received this draft for an

          6         amended recommended order and do not agree with it.  I

          7         believe there are some things in it that are not true,

          8         that they are taken out of context.  I would respectfully

          9         disagree with this amended order if it is put in.  I would

         10         ask you, Mr. Governor, and cabinet to please listen to

         11         your staff's recommendation and to deny and not allow this

         12         land use to go through.

         13              Again, it's a land use issue.  It's not a zoning

         14         issue.  But if you do look at the site plan, if a

         15         developer has to give up 150-foot buffers, I would say it

         16         doesn't fit on that piece of property.  You're trying to

         17         put a square peg into a round hole and it just doesn't

         18         work.  Hopefully we'll have a chance to speak to this

         19         order if this is taken up, the new revised one, because I

         20         do have some notes in the small amount of time I've been

         21         able to look at it.  But thank you very much for your

         22         time.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  Treasurer?

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  You're on the Jacksonville city

         25         commission?

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Yes.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  And did they take this item up at

          3         all?

          4              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Yes, we did vote on it.

          5              CFO GALLAGHER:  What was that vote?

          6              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  There were two opposed.  I

          7         believe there were two that had to abstain.  I'm sure that

          8         Mr. Sanders had that.  And the rest were in favor of it.

          9         He had 19 total -- he had 15 -- it was either 15 or 13 to

         10         two, I think.

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  Thirteen, I think.

         12              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Thirteen to two.

         13              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I have a question as well.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  Yes.

         15              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  You were saying this area was

         16         not suitable for 24/7 for a business of this type but then

         17         you said it would be suitable for apartments and so forth.

         18         That would be 24/7 as well, wouldn't it?  That doesn't --

         19         I can't compute what you're saying there if there's going

         20         to be apartments there and people living there, coming in

         21         and out 24/7.  What's the difference between the two?

         22              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Well, you have a lot more of an

         23         intensive use with a development such as this land use,

         24         what we're proposing for a store.  You do have also your

         25         deliveries that come in.  It's much more intense use.

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         With apartments, you still have the dumpsters and that but

          2         you don't have the deliveries coming in and the large

          3         trucks, you don't have that.  And an apartment use is

          4         really not as intense as people coming in at different

          5         times of the hour of the day, going into a grocery store

          6         buying something.  Your lighting is more intense.  There

          7         are a lot of differences between apartment living and

          8         between a 24/7 commercial use.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you.

         10              COUNCILWOMAN SELF:  Thank you.

         11              MS. TINKER:  The next speaker is councilwoman Suzanne

         12         Jenkins representing the City of Jacksonville.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Good morning.

         14              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Good morning, Governor, and

         15         cabinet members.  I am Suzanne Jenkins, District 4.  This

         16         is in my district and I'm going to put a picture up here.

         17         I know there is some magic camera.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Got to turn it on.

         19              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  This large area right there

         20         that you see, the large road, that is Atlantic Boulevard.

         21         The site that's built is the Publix that is there, the

         22         strip mall.  And then across from that is the open field.

         23         This area is the area.  (Indicating.)  This is the buffer

         24         they are proposing here for the community and the church.

         25         And this is Bartram Road and this is Atlantic Boulevard.

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          1         Everything on this side is my district.  Everything on

          2         this side is Councilwoman Self's district.  And I'm here

          3         representing my constituents today who were involved.  I

          4         set up a citizen advisory that worked with the developer.

          5         This is an infill of an old hospital site.  It's located

          6         on the corner of a six-lane arterial road with a collector

          7         road.  You'll get the counts of that, people who are

          8         following me.

          9              When a developer comes in to bring me infill, I

         10         always want to trade up because a lot of times in the old

         11         neighborhoods what's left doesn't work with what was zoned

         12         15 years ago or what the land use was.  Our city is

         13         dynamic and it's changing.  As I said, there was citizen

         14         involvement.  They worked through the issues and they came

         15         up with this site plan and I'll show you that.

         16              Our area is on the left with the trees.  You can see

         17         the buffers that will be left.  All of that was negotiated

         18         by citizens.  The liquor -- there's no liquor.  There's no

         19         gas going to be sold there.  There will be a police stop

         20         station was agreed to inside.  And a majority of the

         21         citizens who served on this and my constituents are okay

         22         with this.  They said if they had to choose between what

         23         we have now, what would be allowed by right or this, they

         24         chose this and that's why I'm here today and that's why I

         25         supported them at our city council meeting when we took up

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          1         the vote of 13 to 2 and 2 and two were absent.

          2              I feel that this is a balanced approach and it comes

          3         down to two things, a technicality that has been resolved

          4         and a 24/7 national policy of Wal-Mart.  Now my business

          5         is to look at zonings and legislations and land use.  But

          6         I'm not in the business of telling business how to do

          7         their business and refuse to support them in asking them

          8         to not do their business at 24/7.  That, I do not feel, is

          9         my right as a local legislator to ask a national company

         10         to change their national policy because if they do it

         11         here, then it goes nationwide.  I'm not going to be party

         12         to that.

         13              But I would ask you, and this is very important to

         14         me, we debated this.  It was hotly debated and

         15         Councilwoman Self and I are usually in lockstep on every

         16         issue just about in this kind of zoning or land use.  This

         17         is probably the one time that we are totally on opposite

         18         sides.  But I have to represent my constituents and this

         19         is what they chose.  So I'm here asking you-all to respect

         20         what we did at council, the time we took, the effort we

         21         gave, and our final recommendation was to support this

         22         land use change to allow this to be built there so that

         23         this community can have some resolution and some assurance

         24         on how this corner is going to play out in the future.

         25         Thank you.

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          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Councilwoman, you mentioned a

          2         technicality.  What was the technicality you're referring

          3         to?

          4              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  The one thing that was --

          5         Bartram Road, at the time that this passed, was not a

          6         collector road.  But there was legislation introduced

          7         during that time that made it a collector road.  So by the

          8         time they went and had this first hearing with the

          9         officer, the judge, it was not a collector road at that

         10         point.  It had not been designated.

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  You mean the --

         12              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Bartram Road.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  The recent ALJ ruling?

         14              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Not the recent one, the first

         15         one.

         16              THE GOVERNOR:  The first one.

         17              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Since then, that designation

         18         has gone through.  I believe Bartram Road carries like

         19         3,500 trips.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  So why did the -- what's your opinion

         21         of why the ALJ ruled the way they did?

         22              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  I wish I knew.  I can tell you

         23         as a local legislature, we hate when that happens because

         24         it takes us out -- I mean, we heard the issues, both

         25         sides --

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          1              THE GOVERNOR:  We're not -- thank God you-all do the

          2         land use work, let me just be clear.  I appreciate the

          3         patience it requires and the intensity of these decisions

          4         and I always wonder when we have disputed administration

          5         commission meetings why the heck are we here?

          6              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  It feels strange to be

          7         standing before you.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  Yeah, I mean, this is just an odd

          9         quirk of history.  Maybe it will be changed one of these

         10         days.  But the question at hand is, correct me if I'm

         11         wrong, but we took your position once and we were

         12         summarily slapped back in essence.  And so you're asking

         13         us to do the same thing again.  I'm just confused.  Maybe

         14         Teresa could explain one more time what exactly our role

         15         is here.  I mean, certainly it isn't to site Wal-Marts.

         16              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Absolutely.  I believe it's

         17         about the commercial note.  In our comp plan, the

         18         definition of a commercial note is with an arterial road

         19         and a collector road, and that is what you have at Bartram

         20         and Atlantic.

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  But we've already -- hasn't that

         22         already been -- hasn't that --

         23              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  But the first time it was not

         24         designated a collector road even though it was functioning

         25         as one.  It had not been designated.  It has since that

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          1         first one came out.  And when you all sent it back to the

          2         judge and said, Okay, here's new evidence.  It's a

          3         collector road and he still hasn't changed, I don't

          4         understand why.  I wish I could tell you.  But I'm here

          5         asking you to support the local legislators on this at 13

          6         to 2 who supported it.  I wish I could answer for the

          7         judge.  I really don't know.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, I shouldn't have even asked you

          9         that.  Judges sometimes can be mysterious.

         10              COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS:  Thank you very much.

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  Thanks a lot.

         12              MS. TINKER:  The next speaker is Carl Sanders

         13         representing Wal-Mart stores.

         14              MR. SANDERS:  Good morning.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Good morning.

         16              MR. SANDERS:  My name is Carl Sanders.  I'm with the

         17         law firm of Edwards Cohen in Jacksonville and I'm pleased

         18         to be here this morning and it's been a long journey and I

         19         think both sides are ready to see some closure here.

         20              Governor, if I may, I had some notes written out here

         21         but I think I'm just going to jump right into your

         22         question that you had for Councilwoman Jenkins which is

         23         the legal issues that you-all are looking at today.  The

         24         initial order that came out from the administrative law

         25         judge concluded that this particular parcel was not

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          1         located in what's referred to as a "node" which is a

          2         planning term of art.  It's a term of art that is defined

          3         specifically in the City's comprehensive plan.

          4              Based upon his initial order, we took the position

          5         the first time that we were before the cabinet that he

          6         erroneously construed that definition by placing form over

          7         substance, if you will, that the fact that it was --

          8         Bartram Road was labeled as a local at road at the time of

          9         the hearing should not -- should not require turning a

         10         blind eye to the fact that it was actually functioning as

         11         a collector road.  And our position was if you make that

         12         finding, that finding of fact, and recognize that, in

         13         fact, it's a collector road, there's only one conclusion

         14         that you can reach as a matter of law and that conclusion

         15         is that this parcel meets the clear and unambiguous

         16         definition of a node as set forth in the City's

         17         comprehensive plan.

         18              As lawyers and judges do sometimes, we disagreed.

         19         The administrative law judge, when it went back to him, we

         20         briefed the issues again, and his revised order said that

         21         that he still thought that this parcel was not located

         22         within a node.  Our response to that is more fully set

         23         forth in our exceptions that we filed and argued and

         24         briefed with staff and it's basically this:  That the way

         25         that the judge reads the plain and unambiguous terms of

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          1         the definition of "node" in the City's comp plan is

          2         directly contrary to that definition.  That is a question

          3         of law.  It's not a question of fact.  We're not asking

          4         you to reweigh the evidence or second-guess his decision

          5         in that regard.  I've got lots of nice pretty pictures I

          6         can show you guys and I think everyone here will agree

          7         that it's a nice development, it's a good-looking

          8         development and the argument is whether or not this is the

          9         right development for this particular parcel.

         10              Our position is that as a matter of law it is because

         11         it falls within the definition of a node.  Let me explain

         12         why it is that we take that position.  And, again, these

         13         are all set forth in our exceptions that we filed to the

         14         revised recommended order.  First and foremost, the

         15         definition of a node requires a couple of things.  One,

         16         that you be a -- that the subject parcel be a developed or

         17         developable land area.  Certainly, we are that.  Second,

         18         that you be located -- the parcel be located at the

         19         intersection of a collector and an arterial roadway.  We

         20         now meet that criteria as well.

         21              And here's the problem.  The problem is in the

         22         revised recommended order, I want to point out that

         23         specific paragraph, Paragraph 10, the revised recommended

         24         order.  The ALJ draws this conclusion:  Given the

         25         character of the neighborhood, the Bartram property is not

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          1         suitable for medium or high densities or intensities of

          2         the type authorized under the neighborhood commercial land

          3         use category.  There are at least three things wrong with

          4         that conclusion as a matter of law.  And I just want to

          5         address a couple of them.

          6              First and foremost, the character of the neighborhood

          7         is not the issue for the land use amendment proceeding.

          8         That's not the issue in the definitions section.  The

          9         definition is very, very clear.  It says:  Are you a

         10         developable land area and are you located at the

         11         intersection of a collector and arterial.  The remainder

         12         of that sentence which says, comma, which, which parcels,

         13         which developable land areas are suitable for medium to

         14         high densities and intensities of use.  The question is

         15         what does that mean.  Does that add a third criteria or a

         16         third element to the definition?  We think clearly it does

         17         not.

         18              And our position is that this particular parcel

         19         already has a commercial land use classification that's

         20         known in Jacksonville as RPI.  In RPI, you can do limited

         21         commercial retail developments and it's debatable as to

         22         whether you can do the proposed grocery store in RPI.  We

         23         take the position that you can and the judge noted in his

         24         initial order that that may, in fact, be a debatable

         25         issue.  In addition to RPI you also have -- I know the

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          1         time is coming up -- you can also have institutional uses

          2         like the hospital that was here before, 24/7 hospital.

          3         You can have 24/7 apartments and the like.

          4              We take the position that because the city council,

          5         the City of Jacksonville, I'll sum up with this, has

          6         already made the determination that this parcel of land

          7         is, in fact, suitable for medium to high densities and

          8         intensities of use that, as a matter of law, it meets that

          9         prong of the definition and there was no opportunity for

         10         the ALJ to review that as a question of fact and take it

         11         into consideration.  And for those reasons, Governor, and

         12         members of the cabinet, we would respectfully request that

         13         you reject those conclusions of law set forth in the

         14         recommended order and revised recommended order.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you.

         16              MS. TINKER:  The next speaker is A.C. Skinner

         17         representing Bartram Atlantic.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Good morning.

         19              MR. SKINNER:  Good morning.  I'm Chester Skinner.

         20         I'm one of the owners of the property at Bartram and

         21         Atlantic.  The property was purchased from the Morse

         22         Foundation who is the owner of the previous hospital

         23         located on the site.  I'm not going to spend a lot of time

         24         talking about a lot of things that have been covered

         25         previously.  But I just wanted to tell you that when we

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          1         acquired the property and two transactions in 2000 and

          2         2002, the main interest in the property was from

          3         commercial interest.  There is very little interest.  It's

          4         not an office market location.  It's a very heavily

          5         traveled road, there's something like 38,000 cars a day

          6         going by it.  It's really not a very suitable location for

          7         residential either, quite frankly.

          8              But the interest came from the commercial sector and

          9         we worked very closely with Councilwoman Jenkins through

         10         the citizens' committee meetings trying to create a

         11         development that would be suitable and compatible and

         12         benefit an older area that needed some revitalization.  I

         13         feel personally very comfortable with the development and

         14         the work that Wal-Mart has done to try and accommodate the

         15         interests of the neighborhood and I just ask that you

         16         respectively support the City council's 13 to 2 ruling and

         17         the support of the planning staff and approve this

         18         development.  Thank you.

         19              THE GOVERNOR:  Thanks a lot.

         20              MS. TINKER:  Governor, we have a couple of citizens

         21         that have asked to speak.  Former Representative Jim

         22         Tullis (phonetic) and Maryanne Sadee (phonetic).

         23              REPRESENTATIVE TULLIS:  Good morning, Governor, good

         24         morning, cabinet members.  I just want to use Ms. Jenkins'

         25         picture here.  I'm here this morning -- you don't know how

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          1         to do it either.  Oh, we're in trouble.  We're in big

          2         trouble.  (Laughter.)

          3              I'm here this morning, I don't live in the area.  I

          4         was on the council in 1990 when I was put to be chairman

          5         of the comprehensive 2010 plan which was dropped down by

          6         the State and wanted to come in and really look at our

          7         zonings and take it out of the political realm.  And we

          8         didn't know how that was going to be done and that was how

          9         you-all got it.  The process was it was going to come back

         10         to the state and make it harder to start tearing our plan

         11         up.  Every plan can be changed, we understand that.  I

         12         want you to realize one thing, if you will.  Nothing has

         13         changed in this neighborhood in 15 years.  It was

         14         completely built out.  The hospital you're hearing was a

         15         polio hospital for children, was there back when polio was

         16         in.  It was when polio was cured, they came to us and

         17         wanted to make it a children's hospital.  And we denied

         18         the 24-hour emergency ingress and egress because this is a

         19         neighborhood.

         20              Yes, we have a Publix on the west side.  We studied

         21         this issue very, very long during the comprehensive plan.

         22         We stopped any commercial zoning and kept it east of

         23         Bartram Road where Publix is, not to allow it to come

         24         across and into that residential neighborhood.  Yes, we

         25         did call for RPI.  And anybody here that thinks you can

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          1         put a Wal-Mart in an RPI, God help our zoning because we

          2         might as well throw it all out the window.  That was the

          3         thinking of our planning director and she quickly backed

          4         off that and they decided to come for rezoning.

          5              I will tell you, to go for this zoning will start

          6         eroding a plan that we spent two years and that this group

          7         adopted in Jacksonville.  I understand there can be

          8         changes but not changes when the area has already grown

          9         out.  This is a T intersection right here.  This is a T

         10         intersection.  (Indicating.)  This is a commercial

         11         intersection.  (Indicating.)  This is the property we're

         12         talking about.  (Indicating.)  This is all commercial

         13         (sic) with the exception of a little plumbing shop that

         14         was put in in the '40s --

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  All residential.

         16              REPRESENTATIVE TULLIS:  All residential.  I'm sorry.

         17         Thank you, Governor.  This was all residential and all

         18         this is back residential.  And it's up to government to

         19         protect those neighborhoods and where do we protect them?

         20         The commercial neighborhood came in with Publix right here

         21         and Bartram was the dividing road.  Nothing has changed.

         22         I tried to get the traffic count back in 1990 because we

         23         looked at that.  We called it a local road.  They couldn't

         24         come up with those figures.  But nothing has changed out

         25         there.  We have a school at one end, a Publix at the

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          1         other, and a school in the middle.  We had a school at one

          2         end, a school in the middle, and a Publix when we did this

          3         plan in 1990.  It's just a gross tearing apart of a plan

          4         that myself and six other members spent two years working

          5         with a lot of good help and I just hope that you will

          6         adhere to what the Hearing Officer and what your aides

          7         have said and find in favor of the neighborhood.

          8              Thank you, Governor.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you very much.  Good seeing you.

         10              Good morning.

         11              MS. SADEE:  I'm Maryanne Sadde.  I'm one of the

         12         Petitioners and I have a map.  And I have for you

         13         individual maps, they have been provided to your aides but

         14         there are --

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  That's going to be hard.  Maybe the

         16         picture might work better.  What do you think?

         17              MS. SADEE:  First, to show you, I'd like to make two

         18         or three comments that are in response to some that

         19         Councilwoman Suzanne Jenkins and attorney Carl Sanders

         20         have said.  I was on that citizens advisory committee.

         21         And the citizens advisory committee was a symbol of people

         22         from the neighborhood to find out what was going on.  The

         23         citizens advisory committee did not approve -- the

         24         citizen's advisory committee was there to try to protect

         25         our neighborhood and find out what plans were going

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          1         forward.  And so now our having agreed to be there and

          2         listen to what was going on is being construed as

          3         approving what happened.  That is not true.

          4              I would say further that looking at this map, if you

          5         look carefully, you can see some little dots.  And the

          6         little dots, again, to get it oriented, it's not oriented

          7         properly here.  This position is the subject property so

          8         if you have yours oriented right, you can see there is a

          9         larger property and then a little square out at the

         10         corner.  Something that has sort of escaped notice has

         11         been that Mr. Skinner did allude that there are two

         12         properties involved.

         13              It's sort of under the radar screen that not only is

         14         there proposed a Wal-Mart neighborhood grocery, but this

         15         out parcel has been kept with we don't know what is going

         16         to go in there with the plan.  If this land use is

         17         approved for neighborhood commercial, we're buying a pig

         18         in a poke in terms of what will go there.  But the

         19         neighborhood commercial would grant the most intensive use

         20         for fast food operation or whatever.  I can say I live

         21         here, so I'm just --

         22              THE GOVERNOR:  Where are you pointing?  Don't point

         23         at the screen.  That doesn't --

         24              MS. SADEE:  This is the subject parcel.

         25         (Indicating.)  I live here.  Now when you look at the --

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          1         this little map further and you see all of the dots, I

          2         would -- you'll remember that Councilwoman Jenkins said

          3         that her constituency were for this.  Look at the dots and

          4         you will see these -- Councilwoman Jenkins' district is on

          5         this side of Atlantic Boulevard.  Councilwoman Self's

          6         district is on this side of Atlantic Boulevard.

          7              All of the dots in here show you where the people are

          8         who signed the petition opposing this use of the property.

          9         So petitions were signed and you-all have in your

         10         possession some 500 signatures of petitions signed and

         11         these folks live in the neighborhood.  Those who are for

         12         it, Ms. Jenkins' district is wide and goes this way and

         13         there are many people who may be for this project but they

         14         don't live in the neighborhood.  We live here.  To make a

         15         little more -- and I don't want to overuse my two minutes

         16         but the --

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  You're in overtime right now, ma'am.

         18              MS. SADEE:  I'm going -- all right.  It's a picture.

         19              THE GOVERNOR:  Someone will hold that for you.

         20              MS. SADEE:  It's right side up now, I think.  Again,

         21         you're here on the law, not on politics.  I'm not a

         22         lawyer, I'm a citizen.  But I can read and I can see this

         23         is the node.  It is being proposed that this is the node

         24         and you can very clearly see that the commercial -- this

         25         is the commercial intensive designation and this is

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          1         Bartram Road.  And as the land use was designated, this

          2         was the dividing line and this is the subject parcel that

          3         was transitional zoning.  This is a church.  And so

          4         Bartram Road is a dividing line for transitional zoning.

          5         If you approve the land use that has been approved by the

          6         City Council of Jacksonville, that is if you do not deny

          7         the City Council of Jacksonville's approval, then you will

          8         have brought into this neighborhood more intensive zoning

          9         than this and now we'll have hanging out this -- here's

         10         the church.  And our neighborhood could -- that will have

         11         been broken down, the design planned for stability for the

         12         reasonable use of land in a neighborhood.

         13              We have someone who bought the property knowing what

         14         the zoning and land use were.  It was known at the time.

         15         It was nothing new.  And we would ask you to hold to the

         16         land use that has been carefully, carefully considered.

         17         You have already raised the question why we are here.  But

         18         it has been carefully considered by many minds over

         19         extensive time.  Thank you.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you very much.  I tell you what,

         21         you did pretty good for not being a lawyer.  You can tell

         22         you've had some practice at this.

         23              MS. TINKER:  Governor, we have one last speaker,

         24         Tracy Arkin, the city attorney for Jacksonville.

         25              MR. ARKIN:  Good morning.  I'm Tracy Arkin, the

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          1         deputy general counsel from the City of Jacksonville and

          2         we support the position of the applicant here.  And I'd

          3         like to begin first by addressing the issue that has to do

          4         with the line drawn in the sand when the comp plan was

          5         adopted.  The comp plan maps were adopted almost 15 years

          6         ago now.  And the comprehensive plan is not a document

          7         that is set in stone.  It lives, it breathes, it adjusts

          8         to what happens in the community.

          9              At the time that the comprehensive plan was adopted

         10         and the maps were adopted, Bartram Road was not a

         11         collector road.  It was a local street at that time.  It

         12         was not functioning at that point 15 years ago as a

         13         collector road.  And as a result, if you look at our

         14         definition of a node in the comprehensive plan, it would

         15         have been inappropriate to have designated this for

         16         commercial use back when the comp plan maps were first

         17         adopted because it was not land that would have been

         18         located at the confluence of collector or higher roadways.

         19              What has happened in the meantime, the traffic counts

         20         on Bartram Road have gone to over 3600 cars a day.  The

         21         road has appropriately been reclassified as a collector

         22         road and as a result it's appropriate for the

         23         comprehensive plan to be amended now to change the land

         24         use classification at the intersection to a commercial use

         25         because it is at a site which under the definition

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          1         qualifies as a collector and as a suitable site that the

          2         comprehensive plan has determined is a location which is

          3         suitable for medium to high densities and intensities of

          4         use.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  How -- I'm sorry, I hate to ask this

          6         question because it may mire me into the land use

          7         discussion which I don't believe is our role.  But here I

          8         go.  How can this be a collector road if dead-ends into

          9         Atlantic?

         10              MR. ARKIN:  I think what you need to see is it is

         11         probably a broader view and this may be too small a scale

         12         to see.  It's actually a collector road in part because it

         13         goes from Atlantic, it comes down and then ties into

         14         University Boulevard.  And along that road, you've got a

         15         private school.  In fact, I think two private schools, a

         16         public school and then up by the other end it splits

         17         between a shopping center site, grocery store site down to

         18         the proposed site here.

         19              So it actually serves, to some extent, as a

         20         cut-through between two major arterials in Jacksonville.

         21         It's not a local street that just heads south and stops.

         22         It actually is a collector that serves as a bypass to that

         23         main intersection at Atlantic and University Boulevards.

         24         So it has functioned over the years as a collector road

         25         because of the type of traffic it carries, the function it

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         serves and the traffic counts are such now that it

          2         qualifies as a collector road from the standpoint of

          3         volumes of traffic as well.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.

          5              MR. ARKIN:  The only other thing I would add is that

          6         we believe the ALJ was wrong in his interpretation of what

          7         the definition of a node is under the comprehensive plan.

          8         We think that in writing the plan if you are at that

          9         intersection, if you are developable land, you are thereby

         10         suitable for a development such as this and that he erred

         11         as a matter of law in his interpretation of the

         12         comprehensive plan.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you very much.

         14              MS. TINKER:  Governor, that concludes the speakers.

         15         Again, staff is recommending a final order that adopts the

         16         findings and recommendations of the administrative law

         17         judge.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Let me ask you, Teresa.  If we vote

         19         to -- vote with the staff's recommendation, what's the

         20         next step?  My problem, maybe I should ask -- I mean, is

         21         this -- are we going to court?  This is going --

         22              MS. TINKER:  District Court of Appeals most likely.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  District Court of Appeals.  If you

         24         guys don't win, you're going to appeal it.  And if you

         25         aren't allowed to develop property, you're going to appeal

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         it.  Why are we here?

          2              So what -- Shanta, tell me, maybe you can help on

          3         this.  What difference does it make what our view is on

          4         this if it's certain to be appealed.  Do we have certain

          5         weight because -- if we change our mind now and reverse

          6         ourselves from the previous position that the State --

          7         that the Administration Commission took which was out of

          8         deference to local decisions being made locally, if we

          9         reverse our decisions now and follow the staff

         10         recommendation, does that somehow give the courts some --

         11         do they defer to us?

         12              MS. COMBS:  Not necessarily, Governor, no.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  We just spent an hour and a half --

         14              MS. COMBS:  You, as the Administration Commission,

         15         have a very narrow standard of review on this.  You can

         16         only reverse the findings of fact from the administrative

         17         law judge if you find there's not competent substantial

         18         evidence to support those findings of fact.

         19              You can reverse the conclusions of law if you find

         20         your conclusions of law are as reasonable or more

         21         reasonable than the conclusions of law that the ALJ made.

         22         I've read both volumes of the transcript from this

         23         hearing.  It was my legal determination that there was

         24         competent substantial evidence in the record to support

         25         the ALJ's findings of fact.  Even if you want to change

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         the conclusions of law as Wal-Mart and the City recommend,

          2         you still cannot change the findings of fact without a

          3         finding of lack of competent substantial evidence.  Even

          4         if there's evidence that supports what you guys want to

          5         do, that's okay.  But you still have to find that there is

          6         not competent substantial evidence in the record to

          7         support what the ALJ did.  And when the Court gets it -- I

          8         know, Governor, I'm sorry.  (Laughter.)  That's how I felt

          9         at the Miami, Florida State game.  Getting you back.

         10         (Laughter.)

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  Commissioner?

         12              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I didn't want to stop her

         13         train of thought.  But I do have a question for her.

         14              MS. COMBS:  My point is if the District Court of

         15         Appeal finds that there is competent substance evidence

         16         for what the ALJ did and still finds that there is

         17         competent substantial evidence for what you guys want to

         18         do, the Court is likely to go with what the ALJ did

         19         because the ALJ sat and listened to the evidence.  Sat and

         20         listened to the credibility of the witnesses and that's

         21         the ALJ's role.  Now you-all have a role by statute, the

         22         Legislature has given you this role.  Once it's gone

         23         through the city commission process, through the ALJ

         24         process, it's given you a role to make a determination but

         25         the District Court of Appeal has its role as well.

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Commissioner?

          2              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, I've got to tell you, I

          3         have some concerns here and whether it's a Wal-Mart or any

          4         other -- whoever the business is in this area where the

          5         City has gone through the process of looking at this and

          6         made a determination by a vote, a substantial vote, that

          7         an administrative law judge, after the City says, Well, if

          8         the problem is that they don't believe it's a collector

          9         issue has now gone in and said it truly is because of the

         10         traffic flow, a collector road, if that was one of the

         11         substantial issues in the original determination by the

         12         administrative law judge, it was carried back and the law

         13         judge says, Well, I understand it's a collector road now.

         14         I understand you voted to do this.  But I'm still going to

         15         rule the way I ruled before, then in my opinion, and this

         16         is strictly my opinion, then the administrative law judge

         17         did not look at the fact that this local delegated elected

         18         commission voted with the idea that the collector road is

         19         a collector road now and decided just to go ahead and say

         20         I've already heard this once.  I don't care if it's

         21         changed, I'm not going to change my opinion.  That bothers

         22         me a little bit and I tell you why.  Because development

         23         in Florida now is becoming so keyhole-oriented as to who

         24         is going to attack it, why it's being attacked.  You can't

         25         have enclaves, you can't have sprawl -- now you have --

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          1         now you have an area where you have homes and businesses.

          2         I'm sure it didn't hurt you too bad.

          3              (Laughter.)

          4              The point is now you got an area that is developed,

          5         you have an area that's got homes around it, it's got

          6         businesses around it, now you don't even want a business

          7         to come into an area where the people living there can use

          8         the business or make it comfortable for them to travel to

          9         a business without having to travel across town or

         10         whatever.  This thing is getting to the point now where I

         11         guess we're going to scrutinize every single issue that

         12         comes before every city and every county and it's all

         13         going to be brought back to us as referees.  And quite

         14         frankly, it reminds me of the school issues when I was

         15         first on the cabinet here when we were having to go in and

         16         try to delegate on the school issues as to who ought to

         17         have a school, who shouldn't, and who should have a

         18         charter.

         19              I mean, to me, this board cannot be the one who makes

         20         the determination where local voters and businesses and

         21         commissions and elected people to try to overrule every

         22         time an issue comes up.  I just believe that the

         23         administrative law judge, in my opinion, did not consider

         24         the fact that the Commission did say it was a collector

         25         road.  He just decided to go with his first move and that

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         was it.  So I have a problem with that.

          2              MS. COMBS:  One thing I'd like to respond to that is,

          3         first of all, I appreciate your frustration with the

          4         issue.  Secondly, the Legislature has said that the ALJ's

          5         standard of review is preponderance of the evidence as

          6         opposed -- in other words, the ALJ does not have to give

          7         deference necessarily to what the City Commission did.  If

          8         the process of the Legislature is laid out, the City

          9         Commission has the first bite at the apple.  The ALJ has

         10         the second bite of the apple, according to the

         11         Legislature.  The ALJ does not have to give necessary

         12         deference to the City Commission and then it comes to

         13         you-all for review and they've given you a very limited

         14         standard of review.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Treasurer.

         16              CFO GALLAGHER:  I'm very impressed at your lawyering,

         17         now would you please give us Bronson's side of the issue.

         18              MS. COMBS:  His side of the issue and how we can make

         19         it work to develop?

         20              CFO GALLAGHER:  Yeah.

         21              MS. COMBS:  We have to state with particularity in

         22         our order why we want to reject the findings of fact that

         23         the ALJ made.  Now, I know that Wal-Mart and the City will

         24         say, We don't even have to touch the findings of fact.

         25         But if we adopt their legal conclusion as to what the

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         definition of a node is, and that's ultimately what the

          2         issue is, is what is the definition of a node, if we adopt

          3         their legal definition of that, we still -- there are

          4         findings of fact related to suitability of this property,

          5         whether or not this property is suitable to be developed

          6         as a Wal-Mart.  There are findings of fact in the record

          7         about that suitability analysis.  We have to state with

          8         particularity why we are rejecting those findings of fact

          9         as to suitability, that's how we get there.

         10              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Anybody else want to say

         11         something?  There is a -- does anybody want to make a

         12         motion?

         13              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

         14              MS. COMBS:  And I'll be happy to work with anyone of

         15         your-all's staffs to discuss it as well as the parties.

         16              THE GOVERNOR:  Motion.  Is there a second?  (Pause.)

         17         Okay.  No second.  How do I do this if I want to -- can I

         18         give the second?

         19              MS. COMBS:  I think you can.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  Hand the chair over to General Crist.

         21              GENERAL CRIST:  Is there a second?

         22              THE GOVERNOR:  Yes, I second.

         23              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion is seconded.

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  Draft an order finding the plan

         25         amendment --

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1              (Inaudible.  Microphones not on.)

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  It would be to offer the substitute

          3         directing staff to draft an order finding the plan

          4         amendment in compliance.

          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I'll second the substitute

          6         amendment.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  All right.  Now, there is a substitute

          8         amendment and a second.  Let me clarify one other thing

          9         here since we have this crazy four-person commission.

         10         Does the Governor have to be in the --

         11              MS. TINKER:  Not for this particular issue before the

         12         Administration Commission, Governor.  It is a simple

         13         majority vote.  If it's a tie the side that the Governor

         14         votes on prevails.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  That's what I thought.  Wanted to be

         16         clear.  All right.  Any other discussion?

         17              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Only had one other one like

         18         this, I think.

         19              THE GOVERNOR:  All in favor of the substitute motion

         20         say aye.

         21              (Aye.)

         22              All opposed.  No.

         23              GENERAL CRIST:  No.

         24              THE GOVERNOR:  Now we're backed to the original

         25         motion.  Do we accept the staff's recommendation.  Any

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                       ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION - 9/21/04

          1         other discussion?  All in favor say aye.

          2              (Aye.)

          3              Opposed.

          4              CFO GALLAGHER:  No.

          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  No.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  There you have it.

          7              MS. TINKER:  Just to clarify for the Petitioners and

          8         the audience, Governor, the staff's recommendation that

          9         adopts the Hearing Officer's recommended order prevailed.

         10              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you all very much.
















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                  FLORIDA LAND & WATER ADJUDICATORY COMM 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  You back?  Back up?  Florida

          2         Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          4              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          6         Without objection, Item 1 passes.

          7              Is that all you got?

          8              MS. TINKER:  Item 2, request approval of the proposed

          9         final rule establishing the coastal lake community

         10         development district in Walton County.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 2.

         12              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

         14         Without objection, the item is approved.












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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  State Board -- what are we doing here?

          2         Board of Trustees.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          4              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          6         Without objection, Item 1 passes.

          7              Item 2.

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 2.  Item 2 is the Department of

          9         Management Services item on disposal of state-owned

         10         property in Tallahassee.  And this is the initiative for

         11         asset management for the state's properties which would

         12         maximize usage and minimize the cost to maintain property.

         13         And Secretary Bill Simon from the Department of Management

         14         Services is here to give a short presentation.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you, Secretary.

         16              MR. SIMON:  Good morning, Governor and cabinet, I

         17         will be brief.  We do not want to put any Wal-Mart on the

         18         former state properties.

         19              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you, Bill.  You've been holding

         20         that back for like an hour, haven't you?

         21              (Laughter.)

         22              MR. SIMON:  It was funnier when the room was full.

         23         The project has had a lot of press recently and we thought

         24         it would be a good idea to make sure we had on record a

         25         briefing, although I've spoken with most of you and your

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         staffs separately.  The project was initiated by the 2002

          2         Legislature to review our utilization -- the utilization

          3         of the State facilities pool.  The primary objective of

          4         the State facility pool, of this review, is for efficient

          5         and effective use of the properties with a focus on

          6         putting agencies and state employees in the highest

          7         quality buildings we can.  We have many situations where

          8         employees are not in A and B class space.  They're in

          9         buildings that are substandard.

         10              And, finally, to move, if we reach the recommendation

         11         to this group that we will dispose of properties that move

         12         in a measured and coordinated manner with the City and the

         13         State and the County as we brief them.  And up before you

         14         are an example of four of the properties we're talking

         15         about.  It seemed at some stage in the '70s the State was

         16         interested in buying former motels because there are three

         17         of them that are here that are currently being used in

         18         various states of uses, offices and day cares and such.

         19              The good side of having an office in one of those is

         20         you get your own bathtub in your office.  Not sure what

         21         you're going to do with it, but there is one in some of

         22         those.  The top right building is a former gas station

         23         that has been used as a paint shop.  Some of these

         24         buildings have been vacated.  Some of them will be

         25         vacated.  But in most cases, these are not properties that

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         the State needs to maintain.  We're in the process of

          2         doing reviews, evaluations of the properties.  In fact,

          3         two of these properties, the Chevron gas station and one

          4         located at 319 West Madison, make up an entire city block

          5         in the downtown area along with some parking.  And there

          6         are better alternative uses than what sits there today.

          7              So as we move forward with this project, we'll be

          8         back probably in the November time frame, early December

          9         with a recommendation of potential candidates for

         10         disposition.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  All right.  So what are we here for

         12         now?

         13              MR. SIMON:  Information.

         14              CFO GALLAGHER:  All right.  Let me put out some

         15         information.  There are some things here that I'm sure

         16         you're aware of, for example, the boiler for the Fletcher

         17         and the Larson Building which are two buildings that we

         18         inhabit is in the Collier Building.  I'm sorry, in the

         19         Collins Building.

         20              MR. SIMON:  Uh-huh.

         21              CFO GALLAGHER:  So where would one put the boiler

         22         because there is no room in the Fletcher or Larson for it

         23         if you sold the Collins Building?

         24              MR. SIMON:  Again, Treasurer, this is a review of the

         25         properties.  If we're going to make a determination --

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         when we make a determination that we are going to

          2         recommend we make a move, we'll adjust the facilities, the

          3         buildings, the people that go with them.  In many cases

          4         we'll make a recommendation that we leave some buildings

          5         and renovate others that are on -- that are in this

          6         review.  So it's entirely possible that some of the

          7         buildings that are Cs and Ds that we occupy now can be

          8         made into As and Bs and will be utilized that way.  So

          9         it's difficult to answer that question until we reach the

         10         final one.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  Now what's a C?  Is that get rid of

         12         or keep?

         13              MR. SIMON:  It's a "not good".  Cs and Ds are bad.

         14              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  (Off-the-record comment.)

         15              MR. SIMON:  That would be a D.

         16              CFO GALLAGHER:  Okay.  You got the parking that

         17         people in the Larson and the Fletcher Building use as a C.

         18         So nobody has enough parking in this town and you're

         19         looking to get rid of a parking lot?

         20              MR. SIMON:  Looking to review it, Treasurer, to make

         21         a determination that we may keep, again, one entire city

         22         block, turn it into downtown parking that can accommodate

         23         and relieve all the parking issues which would then

         24         provide an option for utilizing some of the surface

         25         parking that exists which is an inefficient use of space

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         as --

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  This particular one is multi-level.

          3         It's not just single level.

          4              MR. SIMON:  Uh-huh.

          5              CFO GALLAGHER:  So what do you plan on doing?  This

          6         is your overall plan you're letting us know about.  And

          7         then you're going to -- I mean, obviously, wouldn't want

          8         to sell all this stuff on the market right away and we

          9         flood the thing and we don't get any money for it.

         10              MR. SIMON:  Correct.  Again, the process --

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  I mean, listen, there certainly are

         12         some pieces here we'd do a lot better off selling them and

         13         letting somebody else have them.  I fully agree with that.

         14         I could pick a few of them out real quick.  But I don't

         15         think we want to just sell them all at once because I

         16         don't think we'd make any money doing that.

         17              MR. SIMON:  Exactly.

         18              CFO GALLAGHER:  And it would probably hurt us more

         19         than help us.  So this is the plan and then you're going

         20         to start figuring out what to sell first.

         21              MR. SIMON:  And then we'll be back in front of the

         22         Board for our recommendation through the normal process

         23         through State Lands and the Trustees.

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  One -- a couple of buildings at a

         25         time?

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1              MR. SIMON:  Yes, sir.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  Like in November, you're not going to

          3         say, Okay, sell all these?

          4              MR. SIMON:  Yes, sir.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  The other -- this is also part of just

          6         the overall review of the office space needs of

          7         departments.  When the initial review was done, you know,

          8         we're talking about inefficiencies that cost us tens of

          9         millions of dollars in terms of rental costs.  I don't

         10         know if you-all saw the Department of Revenue real estate

         11         review in the agenda this morning, they have

         12         1,400,000 square feet.  And if they are occupying

         13         350 square feet per employee, and the private sector

         14         standard is 180 or even 150 in some cases, then they are

         15         paying double perhaps what the cost could be in terms of

         16         occupancy costs that could be going into investing in

         17         technologies to improve child support or anything else.

         18         So I think as we modernize our occupancy issues what we're

         19         going to find is there is going to be some private sector

         20         opportunities to provide some property taxes to Leon

         21         County.

         22              MR. SIMON:  Yes, sir.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  But this will be -- the Treasurer's

         24         point is well taken.  We wouldn't want to sell anything

         25         and depreciate the values of the properties.  It needs to

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         be done strategically.

          2              MR. SIMON:  Yes, sir.  We plan to market these

          3         buildings to the best of our ability, one at a time, in

          4         the most effective way to generate the best revenues we

          5         can.

          6              CFO GALLAGHER:  Also recognize that once we put this

          7         thing out and it's public, which it is, now everybody is

          8         going to sit around and say, Well, let's see, I'm going to

          9         just wait and get this piece.  So you may not sell the

         10         first piece as much as you could get.  So you got

         11         problems when you're trying to --

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  Thing about this is the Tallahassee

         13         Democrat will editorialize what a bad guy I am for

         14         suggesting this or Bill, maybe you'll --

         15              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, you can tell them that Lawton

         16         Chiles started it all off by building Southwood.  It's all

         17         his fault.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  They wouldn't believe it.  (Laughter.)

         19         Being out there a lot though, it's pretty convenient.

         20         Southwood is pretty nice.

         21              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, it's a long walk from the

         22         Mansion, isn't it?

         23              MR. SIMON:  I wasn't going to tell you about that

         24         Mansion relocation project.

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  That's it.  That's the ball house out

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                           BOARD OF TRUSTEES - 9/21/04

          1         in Southwood is going to be the new Mansion.  That will be

          2         the rumor.  Start that rumor.

          3              THE GOVERNOR:  Any other questions?  There's a

          4         motion.  We have to, I guess, accept this.  Is there a

          5         motion?

          6              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  And a second?

          8              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         10         objection, the report is accepted.

         11              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 3 is the Department of Children

         12         and Family's American Habilitation services sublease.

         13         These, Governor, and cabinet are subleases -- are leases,

         14         subleases from DCF to developmentally disabled cluster

         15         homes.  The request before you is a request to approve a

         16         12-year sublease between Department of Community

         17         Services -- Department of Children and Families and

         18         American Habilitation Services.

         19              Secondly, a determination that the proposed use is

         20         not contrary to the public interest.  And thirdly, a

         21         delegation of authority to the secretary of DEP to approve

         22         future subleases of DCF cluster facilities.  This is an

         23         attempt to get all of the cluster facilities under lease.

         24         These are companies that currently take care of

         25         developmentally disabled groups of people, generally in

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          1         homes and subdivisions.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  I have a question.

          3              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, sir.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  DCF owns these homes?

          5              MS. CASTILLE:  Technically speaking, the Board of

          6         Trustees own the home and we lease to the children --

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  And we got these by buying them in

          8         the communities?

          9              MS. CASTILLE:  I believe we probably had them built.

         10         Is DCF here?  Yes, we had them built specifically for

         11         developmentally disabled.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  Okay.  And we are letting this group

         13         of American Habitation Services -- are they going to

         14         manage the property?

         15              MS. CASTILLE:  Currently, the habilitation services

         16         manages the homes and the people in them.  They have a

         17         contract with the State to do that.  So there is already a

         18         contract in place but we also want them to have

         19         responsibility for the property as well which they

         20         currently do.  They just haven't been operating under a

         21         lease.  The purpose of putting them under a sublease is to

         22         make sure that we don't have tenants at will but we have

         23         tenants who have specific rights and responsibilities to

         24         upkeep the properties.

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  All right.  If for some reason, a

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          1         management change, an ownership change, or some reason

          2         American Habitation Services doesn't do such a good job

          3         with these people that they are taking care of and want to

          4         fire them, okay, how long is their contract?  Do they have

          5         a 12-year contract or do they have an annual contract with

          6         us?

          7              MS. CASTILLE:  Does the sublease have a clause in

          8         it --

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Not the sublease.

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  One moment.  Does the sublease have a

         11         clause in it that runs concurrent with the contract and so

         12         that if the contract is lost by Habilitation Services --

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Could you state who you are for the

         14         record?

         15              MR. WYGODSKI:  Harvey Wygodski, Department of

         16         Children and Families design and construction.  Right now,

         17         we have a provider that is in this building and a sublease

         18         would take it to --

         19              CFO GALLAGHER:  How long is the lease or how long is

         20         the contract with the provider?  Is it annual?

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  It has to be.

         22              MR. WYGODSKI:  Yeah, it's updated until 2012, I

         23         think.

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  But it's subject to appropriation?

         25              MR. WYGODSKI:  No.  AHCA pays the providers and --

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          1              CFO GALLAGHER:  So the contract is with AHCA.

          2              MR. WYGODSKI:  Yes.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  To take care of the kids.

          4              MR. WYGODSKI:  Correct.

          5              CFO GALLAGHER:  And it's an annual contract?  This is

          6         the contract to take care of the kids.  Forget the

          7         building they are in.

          8              MR. WYGODSKI:  Right.

          9              CFO GALLAGHER:  It's a contract to take care of the

         10         kids.

         11              MR. WYGODSKI:  Yes.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  It's by AHCA?  Under Medicare,

         13         Medicaid?  Medicaid?

         14              MR. WYGODSKI:  Correct, yes.

         15              CFO GALLAGHER:  And it's a one-year contract,

         16         five-year contract?

         17              MR. WYGODSKI:  It's from year to year.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  So the question is:  Does your lease

         19         have a clause in it, your sublease have a clause in it

         20         that if the contract is cancelled that the lease is

         21         cancelled.  That's what the Treasurer is asking.

         22              CFO GALLAGHER:  That's where I'm heading.

         23              MR. WYGODSKI:  We can do that, yes.

         24              THE GOVERNOR:  We have to do it.  I assume --

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  No, they didn't do it yet.  That's

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          1         the problem.  That's why you have to ask these questions.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  Come on, you're kidding me.

          3              MR. WYGODSKI:  Yes.  No, it's in the sublease that we

          4         can -- yes, that if -- if we're not happy with their

          5         service, we can give them notice and change them, yes.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Are we confirming that back

          7         there?

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, we are.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  You're good to go if that's the case,

         10         right?

         11              MS. CASTILLE:  It gives the lessor the right to

         12         terminate the sublease immediately in the event that the

         13         sublessee opts out of the provider agreement.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, that's not --

         15              CFO GALLAGHER:  That's their side opting out.  What

         16         about our side?

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  Exactly.  What happens if they're not

         18         in compliance with the performance elements of the

         19         contract and they're not renewed?

         20              (Pause.)

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  Tell you what.  Why don't you guys

         22         figure out where it is in the contract.  We'll come back

         23         to this item.

         24              Kent, can you work with them just to identify it, the

         25         lease?  We will table Item 3 and move to Item 4.

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          1              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 4 is the City of Palm Bay letter

          2         of consent.  The consideration of a proposed dredging of

          3         approximately 2,000 cubic yards of material for the

          4         temporary sediment sump in the Turkey Creek Tributary of

          5         the Indian River Aquatic Preserve.  Aquatic preserve rules

          6         prohibit dredging except for certain minimal activities

          7         and this is a one-time authorization which meets the

          8         criteria under the rule.

          9              The sump is intended to capture sediments that flow

         10         from the upstream portion of Turkey Creek and is a

         11         temporary solution to some upstream engineering changes

         12         that are being made to the C-54 canal -- I mean the -- I'm

         13         sorry, I forgot the name of the canal in the western

         14         portion.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Western portion of what?

         16              MS. CASTILLE:  Of Indian River County.

         17              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  There is a motion.  Is there a

         19         second?

         20              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  Motion and second.  Any discussion?

         22         Without objection, the item passes.

         23              Item 5.

         24              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 5 is a request for approval of

         25         amendments to Chapter 18-23 of the Florida Administrative

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          1         Code.  This is a rule that is for the coastal and aquatic

          2         managed areas.  It is a clarification, the changes are

          3         clarification of DEP's law enforcement process with regard

          4         to speeding tickets for and other violations in the

          5         aquatic managed areas.  And what it does is allows the

          6         local courts to have jurisdiction in the event of a

          7         contestment of the violation.  It also allows the coastal

          8         and aquatic managed areas to collect park entrance fees

          9         for the Guana River State Park and the adoption of the fee

         10         schedule for environmental education centers in Rookery

         11         Bay and Guana Tolomato Matanzas National Estuarine

         12         Research Reserves.

         13              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.

         14              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

         16         General?

         17              GENERAL CRIST:  Just a question on the fees.  Are

         18         they commensurate with what they are in other --

         19              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, with other parks, yes.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

         21         Without objection, the item passes.

         22              Item 6.

         23              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 6 is the Florida Keys National

         24         Marine Sanctuary annual status report and Billy Causey is

         25         here from the marine sanctuary to give his presentation.

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          1              MR. CAUSEY:  Thank you very much, madam secretary.

          2         Governor, honorable cabinet members, thank you very much

          3         for this opportunity.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  Good to see you, Billy.

          5              MR. CAUSEY:  It's great to be up here again.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Evacuation worked out pretty good?

          7              MR. CAUSEY:  It is phenomenal, Governor.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  Even with that lousy U.S. 1.  All the

          9         extra lanes you want.

         10              MR. CAUSEY:  Yeah, the last three days.

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  I read that article about how every

         12         time you see me you were supposed to be talking about the

         13         widening of U.S. 1.

         14              (Laughter.)

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Look good in a suit by the way.

         16              MR. CAUSEY:  Thank you.  First of all, I want to

         17         point out I'm very proud to be here to brief you on this

         18         seventh annual status report for Florida Keys National

         19         Marine Sanctuary which you all know we manage through a

         20         cotrustee agreement with the State of Florida.  And my

         21         partner Kacki Andrews from DEP is here with me today.

         22              We are very honored to be able to present this.  But

         23         also, one thing I wanted to point out to all of you is the

         24         fact that we -- the president's ocean commission report

         25         came out and recognized a need around the nation for

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          1         improved ocean governments and we've been doing it here in

          2         the state of Florida for a lot of years.  We have a

          3         state/federal partnership with DEP, with FWC.  And we also

          4         even have agreements with Commissioner Bronson's staff on

          5         aquaculture leases in the Florida Keys.

          6              So this state/federal partnership is something that

          7         has actually caught the attention of the president's

          8         marine protected area committee who are using our example

          9         of interagency coordination, interagency relationships, as

         10         a case example, a case study, around the nation as a model

         11         of success.  And I think it's something that we can all

         12         celebrate and I want to thank my partners with DEP, with

         13         FWC, and with Department of Agriculture for the tremendous

         14         relationship we've had over the years and all the

         15         leadership that you, Governor, and the cabinet have shown

         16         for the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary.

         17              The report has a number of items in it.  It's a

         18         pretty hefty report.  I think it's full of some good news

         19         and some status reports.  First, on the coral reefs, we

         20         did have a decline in our coral reefs in '97 and '98

         21         during massive bleaching events.  These were global

         22         bleaching events and we lost about 35 percent of our

         23         corals in the Keys.  But this happened around the globe at

         24         that same time.

         25              What we've seen since then is in 1999 until present,

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          1         as a result of our long-term coral monitoring project as

          2         funded by EPA and NOAA and the State, we have seen that

          3         decline level off.  And, in fact, we have not seen any

          4         appreciable decrease since 1998.

          5              The bad news is that we're not seeing it start to

          6         improve.  And that's what we're hoping to see.  Places in

          7         the Indo-West Pacific like Palau off Australia, New

          8         Guinea, areas like that, did see an improvement.  Our sea

          9         grass have remained somewhat stable in the sanctuary.  And

         10         one thing we also report on in this annual report,

         11         Governor, is something I know you've been paying a lot of

         12         attention to and that's the U.S. Navy redredging project

         13         of Key West Harbor.

         14              That project started in 2003 and has been progressing

         15         quite well.  They're into Phase 2 now.  They were using a

         16         hopper dredge originally and the hopper dredge came in and

         17         took out some of the settlement and now they're starting

         18         to do their pinpoint dredging.  We did have some early

         19         problems with the hopper dredge getting out of footprint

         20         of the dredge basin but those have been corrected and

         21         we're working with the Navy and the contractors to

         22         mitigate for that.

         23              We also, during that exercise, the Navy was proposing

         24         to do some construction along their seawall and we went in

         25         with our team, the state team and the federal team, and we

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          1         moved 3,500 coral colonies.  And we have them in nursery

          2         areas, we have scientists all over the U.S. now using

          3         them.  We have them in the Florida aquarium.  They're all

          4         over the country and we'll be bringing them back

          5         eventually, some of them, to retransplant to other areas.

          6              Another thing I know that you've been paying a lot of

          7         attention to or had around the state are the concept of

          8         no-motor zones.  When we passed the Florida Keys Natural

          9         Marine Sanctuary Act in 1990 and in 1997 when we

         10         implemented our management plan, we put into place 27

         11         wildlife management areas.  Seven of those are

         12         no-motorized zones.  This has turned out to be such a huge

         13         success where we have reduced the conflicts between

         14         personal water craft owners and other boat operators with

         15         the flats guys that the flats guys have gone to now asking

         16         for more of them and even off the city of Marathon they've

         17         asked for a no-motorized zone for us to come in and

         18         establish those.  It's been such a success that Walt

         19         Sterns with the Saltwater Fly Fishing magazine in its

         20         December/January issue had a success story about the

         21         no-motorized zones in the Florida Keys and how they've

         22         revived the fishing.  So this can be done and it can be

         23         done to everyone's enjoyment and success.

         24              In June, Jim Conatan (phonetic) came down and helped

         25         some of our NOAA leadership.  Jim Conatan is the

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          1         president's chairman for Council on Environmental Quality

          2         and he came down and did one of his first open water dives

          3         to place a marker out at Malasis Reef.  He did a great

          4         job, we were really happy.

          5              The no-discharge zone that you-all have supported and

          6         helped pass has been moving along successfully.  We've

          7         been getting good compliance.  In 19 -- in 2003 we

          8         initiated an education outreach program with all the

          9         various agencies, the county, the state agencies as well

         10         as some of the local grassroots groups such as Reef

         11         Relief.  And we've been campaigning that no-discharge zone

         12         and we're getting really good compliance and people are

         13         starting to really pay attention to it.  And it went

         14         through with very little controversy in the local

         15         community.

         16              The last thing I want to report on is our draft

         17         management plan has completed the NOAA review.  We have,

         18         in fact, given it to the cabinet aides and we are going to

         19         be bringing that in a formal review within 30 days and

         20         then we plan to wrap up the draft phase with a series of

         21         public meetings.  With that, Madam Secretary, I think I'm

         22         finished with the report.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you so much.  Any questions?

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

         25              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion.  Is there a second?

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          1              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  It's moved and seconded.  Without

          3         objection, the report is accepted.  Thank you so much for

          4         all your hard work.

          5              MR. CAUSEY:  Thank you, Governor.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you, Billy.

          7              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 7, the 2004 Florida Forever

          8         interim report and priority list.  Before you, Governor,

          9         and members of the cabinet, is consideration of the

         10         acquisition and restoration council's 2004 Florida Forever

         11         interim report and recommendations as well as the interim

         12         priority list.

         13              The Florida Forever priority list is dictated by the

         14         statute and essentially has 34 goals and 11 criteria that

         15         the acquisition council applies in deciding what are the

         16         most appropriate properties.  It is a process by which the

         17         group goes -- that many people come around to the State

         18         agency and to the acquisition council and make their

         19         presentations.  The communities get very involved in it.

         20         The non-profit environmental groups get very involved as

         21         well as the representatives of multiple parcels.

         22              So there are a number of issues that the acquisition

         23         council considers in determining which property goes on

         24         the list.  It is -- there are a number of, you can say

         25         "competing interests", and the acquisition council does

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          1         their best in trying to equally apply -- to equally

          2         represent the properties on the list.  Some of the issues

          3         that are -- some of the elements that are required to be

          4         in -- the land is required to have before going on the

          5         list include historic and archeological properties, acres

          6         for sustainable forest management, acres for endangered

          7         species, recreational abilities, natural groundwater

          8         recharge functions, open space in urban areas, and to

          9         participate in programs that acquire space in the urban

         10         core specifically as well as open space in the urban

         11         service areas.

         12              A number of acres is also required for water supply,

         13         including areas critical to springs, sinks, and aquifers.

         14         These are just some of the elements that the acquisition

         15         council considers when determining which properties are on

         16         the list.  And then the other element that comes into play

         17         when deciding which properties go on the list is how well

         18         have we -- to either take properties off or move

         19         properties from an A list to a B list, the acquisition

         20         council considers with the input of staff how successful

         21         we have been in negotiating some of the properties.  And

         22         when we get to a negotiation impasse, that is one reason

         23         why we either take projects from an A list to a B list, it

         24         puts a little bit of pressure on the owners to decide if

         25         they are going to fish or cut bait so to speak.  And it is

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          1         sometimes successful.  Other times it is not successful

          2         and that is when those properties come off both the A and

          3         the B list and come off the list altogether.

          4              There are always more properties on the list than we

          5         have money for and we have a number of properties that are

          6         large properties that have additional -- large projects

          7         that have additional interests in them.  For instance, the

          8         greenway between Eglin Air Force Base and the Apalachicola

          9         River.  Another one would be the the springs initiative.

         10         A third one would be the Keys ecosystem.  So there are a

         11         number of competing priorities that the acquisition

         12         council attempts to take into account when deciding what

         13         priorities are where.

         14              So the list before you today has several properties

         15         that were moved from the A list to the B list, several

         16         properties that were added to the priority list, and then

         17         decided whether they should be on the A or the B list.

         18         It's a complicated process and the staff does a good job

         19         in making it easy for the acquisition council to take

         20         those votes and make those decisions.  But it's always a

         21         competing list and there's always someone who ends up

         22         lower down on the list than others.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  Treasurer.

         24              CFO GALLAGHER:  Governor, I'd like to move to approve

         25         this item with the direction for ARC to incorporate a

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          1         reevaluation of the Florida Forever list for consideration

          2         in March 2005.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Can

          5         you explain the caveat?

          6              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, you know, I think there are

          7         some people on there that -- and some people on the

          8         outside both that really think some of the evaluations

          9         should be looked at a little closer and what's on A and

         10         what's on B.  And rather than reject this to let them do

         11         it, I'm going to let this move ahead and just hope that

         12         they will take a good, long look at what's where.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.

         14              MS. CASTILLE:  Treasurer, it would be helpful if we

         15         could have some idea of how you would like to have it

         16         reevaluated.  Because if we ask them to evaluate it under

         17         the same criteria that they have in the law and in the

         18         rules, I'm not sure they would come up with a different

         19         vote --

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, you'll have ample time to figure

         21         that out by March.

         22              CFO GALLAGHER:  Yeah, I'll give you -- you want an

         23         example?  I'll be glad to give you one.  You took, say, I

         24         think it was Bear Creek and moved it to B list.  And the

         25         reason was due to funding constraints.  Now later on you

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          1         recommend another project, Pine Island Slough, as an A

          2         project.  And, you know, what happened in between is a

          3         pension fund now is an option -- reserved an option to

          4         purchase Bear Creek last week.  So we may well lose Bear

          5         Creek because it was on the B list, not the A list.  And I

          6         don't know where Pine Island Slough is or why it was there

          7         but that's an example of why I'm saying I'd like them to

          8         take a long look at all of these and if there's something

          9         that's about to get sold, it shouldn't be on the B list.

         10         It ought to be on the A list if we're interested in it.

         11              MS. CASTILLE:  It's not necessarily that it's getting

         12         sold.  It's the type of property that it is.  The Bear

         13         Creek property is much -- mostly in pine plantation.  80

         14         percent of it is in pine plantation.  And we have -- what

         15         percentage of our land is pine plantation?  It's the most

         16         land that we buy is pine plantation.  So we feel like --

         17         the acquisition and restoration council felt like there

         18         was a large representative sample of pine plantation in

         19         our assets already and the Pine Island Slough has much

         20         more cypress domes and wetland strands and endangered

         21         species on it.  It has a higher value for endangered

         22         species.

         23              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, Bear Creek Forest has been added

         24         to the priority list, not taken off.

         25              MS. CASTILLE:  It was put on -- originally they were

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          1         all added to the B list and ultimately what the

          2         acquisition and restoration council did was to vote Pine

          3         Island Slough onto the A list.

          4              CFO GALLAGHER:  Okay.  Well, that's my motion passed

          5         and hopefully you'll --

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, it's going to pass right now.

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  I don't want to get in the middle of

          8         the process.  I don't think that's my job --

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a second.  Motion and a

         10         second.  Without objection, the item passes.  Which

         11         includes by March 2005.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  It may come back to us which is the

         13         normal.  But we're not changing anything.  Just let them

         14         know --

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you, Treasurer.  Colleen, can

         16         you tell me why a piece of property is called Battle of

         17         Wahoo Swamp?  Sounds like a movie.

         18              MS. CASTILLE:  I can't but it probably has some

         19         historic archeological value for a battle.

         20              MR. GLISSON:  It was the second Seminole Indian war

         21         site, battle site.

         22              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you.  Learn something new every

         23         day.

         24              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 8.  Item 8 --

         25              THE GOVERNOR:  By the way, one other thing in your

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          1         report which you failed to mention and it's your job as

          2         secretary of the Department to shamelessly promote the

          3         activities of your Department when they do something good,

          4         this summer, attendance at state parks exceeded 19.2

          5         million visitors.  And for the first time, state parks are

          6         generating over half their operating costs while

          7         contributing over $600 million per year in local economic

          8         benefits.

          9              MS. CASTILLE:  That's right, Governor.  Thank you for

         10         reminding me.

         11              CFO GALLAGHER:  And it's even going to be higher next

         12         year because the people that can't live in their houses

         13         are moving into the parks because the hurricanes moved

         14         them out.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  That's subject to fixing the parks.

         16         There are quite a few that have been damaged.

         17              MS. CASTILLE:  There have been.  We have --

         18              CFO GALLAGHER:  No, I mean, they're going to be

         19         moving from their homes to the parks.

         20              MS. CASTILLE:  The funds that the park is -- the

         21         parks are making through their entrance fees covers about

         22         55 percent of the parks operations and that's the highest

         23         that we have been able to cover cost of our operations so

         24         far.  Unfortunately the hurricanes have hit us hard as

         25         well and I think we have seven parks that will be closed

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          1         for at least another year in the southern part of the

          2         state and probably three parks in the Panhandle that will

          3         be as well.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  I also want to make note of the fact

          5         that your sister, Division of Forestry or cousin, I'm not

          6         sure if it's cousin or sister or brother.

          7              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Distant kin.

          8              (Laughter.)

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Distant?  He just disowned you.  Madam

         10         Secretary, I think he just disowned you.  Stepcousin.  Has

         11         generated in excess of $12 million in revenues from

         12         forest-related activities, returning $1.8 million to 12

         13         mostly rural counties which the forest revenues were

         14         generated from and 2 million people have visited Florida's

         15         31 state forests in the past three years.  And I also want

         16         to commend the Division of Forestry for the awesome job

         17         they've done in distributing -- setting up logistics with

         18         the National Guard for ice, water, food.  They are

         19         everywhere.  They got to be a little tired but they're

         20         doing great.

         21              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Governor, if I could also let

         22         the Board know since we are on these matters, we are

         23         assessing right now through the Division of Forestry the

         24         damage of the natural resources to our state forests and

         25         we will work with other agencies if we are requested to

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          1         make a determination of those timber pieces that have been

          2         lost.  We know it's in the millions.  Of course as cheap

          3         as pinewood has been lately, we're not sure whether that's

          4         in the hundreds of thousands, but we think it's in the

          5         millions.  But we do know there are a lot of trees down,

          6         North Black Water or I should say West Black Water was

          7         devastated by the high winds and they are taking an

          8         assessment of just how much was lost.  But we think, based

          9         on preliminary, we think it could be up to 50 percent of

         10         our big pines were lost in that storm.  So Ivan did a

         11         pretty good bit of damage to us there and there are other

         12         state parks and forests that are damaged pretty heavily.

         13         We'll have to get back to you on that loss.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  All right.  Thank you.

         15              Next item.

         16              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 8 is consideration of an option

         17         agreement to acquire 77.4 acres within San Felasco Hammock

         18         project.  The subject property is being acquired for $1.7

         19         million or 22,000 an acre.  This particular project

         20         contains an Indian village as well as a Spanish mission

         21         site.  And the Spanish mission of San Francisco de Potano

         22         was located at this site.  It also -- San Felasco Hammock

         23         State Park is also one of the parks where we have the

         24         cracker ponies that we've continued the blood line thanks

         25         to the Bronson family.

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          1              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 8.

          2              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          3              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

          4         objection, the item passes.

          5              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 9.  This is a consideration of an

          6         option agreement to acquire 74.3 acres within Tiger Island

          7         and Little Tiger Island Florida Forever project in Nassau

          8         County.  This particular site is believed to be the only

          9         location in the United States to have been under eight

         10         different flags.  United States confederacy.  The United

         11         States, the confederacy, the Mexican rebel flag --

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  The Mexican rebel flag?

         13              MS. CASTILLE:  Rebel flag, yes, sir.

         14              THE GOVERNOR:  Which rebellion?

         15              MS. CASTILLE:  The U.S. confederacy.

         16              THE GOVERNOR:  Thought you said Mexican rebel flag --

         17              MS. CASTILLE:  Oh, I'm sorry, yes, the Mexican rebel

         18         flag for one day.

         19              THE GOVERNOR:  One day?

         20              MS. CASTILLE:  For one day.

         21              CFO GALLAGHER:  Six guys that are going into Mexico

         22         to take over.

         23              (Laughter.)

         24              THE GOVERNOR:  Got lost and landed in Florida.  Okay.

         25              MS. CASTILLE:  This is an island parcel across from

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          1         the Fort Clinch State Park and it consists of uplands that

          2         have 1. -- have an entitlement of one unit per five acres.

          3         The particular property is similar to some property we

          4         bought last year which was called St. Martin's Island.

          5         And there is no vehicular access but it is quite a

          6         developable piece of property in the area where it is --

          7         where there is upland.

          8              CFO GALLAGHER:  What are the other three flags?

          9              MS. CASTILLE:  The Patriots of Amelia Island,

         10         England, and the colonial flag of France and the green

         11         cross of Florida.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  I think I got the seventh.

         13              MS. CASTILLE:  I'm not going to make it up.

         14         (Laughter.)

         15              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 9.

         16              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

         17              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 10.

         18              THE GOVERNOR:  Hang on a second.  There is a motion

         19         and a second.  Without objection, the item passes.  I'm

         20         just reading about this Louis Aude who in turn hoisted the

         21         Mexican rebel flag in 1817.  Are you counting all these

         22         flags, really?  Go ahead.

         23              CFO GALLAGHER:  Once we own them, we got to hang all

         24         those flags in a row.

         25              MS. CASTILLE:  The Palm Beach -- oh, I'm sorry,

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          1         that's deferred.  Item 10 is a deferral until

          2         November 9th.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

          4              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          5              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer until November 9th.

          6              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion to defer until

          8         November 9th and a second.  Without objection, the motion

          9         is deferred.

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 11 is an assignment -- is a

         11         nature conservancy assignment of an option agreement for

         12         Yellow River Ravines and a Florida Forever project, with

         13         Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division

         14         of Forestry at the Black Water River State Forest

         15         Additions and Inholdings.  This is -- this subject

         16         property is being acquired for $5.4 million which is

         17         98 percent of apprised value, at $1153 per acre.  This

         18         particular property is right near the Black Water Forest.

         19         We believe that there is not much damage to this -- to

         20         this forestry and to the timber here.

         21              But it is currently -- we are going a recruise on the

         22         timber as we speak today.  The option agreement before us

         23         has $2 million in the project for timber and we have the

         24         option to be able to go back and renegotiate if there was

         25         significant damage to the timber which would affect the

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          1         price.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  Well, heck, the Commissioner just said

          3         he estimated that there would be a 50 percent reduction in

          4         timber.  And this is definitely -- this is in Santa Rosa

          5         County, isn't it?

          6              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  So that would be a pretty good chance

          8         that there is -- why would you want us to --

          9              CFO GALLAGHER:  Why is it our fault?

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  Well, we would like you to approve it

         11         and then give us the ability to go back and negotiate with

         12         the owner.

         13              CFO GALLAGHER:  Downward, I gather.

         14              MS. CASTILLE:  Down.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  We don't know what we are approving.

         16         You have to bring it back to us, is that what you are

         17         saying?

         18              MS. CASTILLE:  Well, we would like to not have to

         19         bring it back to you.  But if you'd like us to, we can.

         20              THE GOVERNOR:  I think you ought to negotiate their

         21         deal and come and then we would approve it the way we

         22         always do with every property.  I'm missing -- unless

         23         there is some time sensitivity or uniqueness to this.

         24         Someone's nodding their head.  Someone's got something

         25         going on here.  Tell me.

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          1              MS. CASTILLE:  The contract allows for us to go back

          2         and renegotiate if anything happens to the timber, either

          3         if there's fire or any damage to the timber, it --

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  What happens if a hurricane hits it?

          5              MS. CASTILLE:  Same thing.

          6              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  So why don't you go renegotiate

          7         it, get a price.  Please come up.  Can you say who you

          8         are?

          9              MR. BROWNE:  John Browne, Division of Forestry.  This

         10         is an acquisition we've been pursuing for four or five

         11         years and I certainly understand your concerns about the

         12         storm.  The timber value here is made up premerchantable

         13         pine.  The owners took most of the merchantable pine off.

         14         What we're finding, and the commissioner is exactly right,

         15         on the naturally forested areas we are losing up to 50

         16         percent of the seed trees that were there.  On the

         17         premerchantable pine and the smaller pine that hadn't been

         18         thinned, we're not losing nearly that much.  We don't

         19         think we're going to have a tremendous impact here.

         20              We have a relatively short closing time frame on

         21         this.  What we would really like to do is go through the

         22         same process we do on any acquisition.  Is that from the

         23         point that the Board approves this agreement we would go

         24         and reevaluate the appraisal, reevaluate the timber,

         25         reestablish the appraised value, and move on to closing.

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          1         And should there be any substantial differences, notify

          2         the Board.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I don't have a problem with

          4         that, but I do have a question.

          5              MR. BROWNE:  Yes, sir.

          6              CFO GALLAGHER:  Did this property get wind damage, do

          7         you know?

          8              MR. BROWNE:  Yes, sir, I'm should it has some wind

          9         damage.

         10              CFO GALLAGHER:  How about some water flow, high water

         11         damage?

         12              MR. BROWNE:  No, sir.

         13              CFO GALLAGHER:  Okay.  It's way beyond that.

         14              MR. BROWNE:  It's just wind damage.

         15              CFO GALLAGHER:  I don't have a problem if you don't

         16         go above the price.

         17              MR. BROWNE:  No, sir, it wouldn't go above.  We would

         18         base our new prices on whatever the adjusted appraisal

         19         would be.

         20              CFO GALLAGHER:  Usually, you get 90 days to close

         21         after -- what these contracts usually say is 90 days to

         22         close.

         23              MR. BROWNE:  November 30th, sir, drop dead date on

         24         this one.

         25              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I'll move the motion with the

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          1         idea that they will go in and reevaluate and renegotiate

          2         if necessary.

          3              THE GOVERNOR:  All right.

          4              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second which

          6         is -- basically, it is the motion is Item 11 as presented

          7         and a second.  Without objection, the motion passes.

          8              Thank you.

          9              MR. BROWNE:  Yes, sir.

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 12 is the reaffirmation of the

         11         Board of Trustees' delegations to the secretary of the

         12         Department for certain activities.  The delegations were

         13         granted to the Department of Environmental Protection by

         14         the Board of Trustees and they've had a significant impact

         15         on the efficiency of Florida's land acquisition program.

         16         Namely, that the average time from appraisal to closing

         17         has been reduced from 440 days to 235 days, an improvement

         18         of 205 days.

         19              The delegations are vital to how we operate in the

         20         Department and allows us to move quickly when we determine

         21         that there is a particularly valuable piece of property

         22         that we would like to move forward with and they also

         23         allow us to move quickly on appraisals and the whole

         24         process down the line.  When there are sales of lands of

         25         5 acres or less or the Murphy Act lands, all of those

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          1         lands no longer have to come to the Board of Trustees for

          2         acquisition approval.

          3              So there are a number of efficiencies under The Board

          4         of Trustees that are provided in the delegations and we

          5         request reaffirmation of those delegations.

          6              CFO GALLAGHER:  Now the lease -- I mean the deeds

          7         still have to be signed, don't they, on Murphy lands?

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  The deeds still have to be signed,

          9         yes.

         10              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I'd like to make a motion here

         11         if I could in regards to Item 12.  And that is, Governor,

         12         heightened public concern is often triggered for

         13         determining whether actions that are delegated come before

         14         us.  The determination of heightened public concern often

         15         rests with the district directors, meaning we sometimes

         16         miss the issues the public would like us to see, and I

         17         move that the determination of heightened public concern

         18         for proprietary issues be elevated to the secretary or

         19         deputy secretary.  I'd also like to see how delegations

         20         are implemented and moved that the reporting of actions

         21         under delegation be made quarterly rather than annually.

         22         Because you keep a list anyway.  You might as well give it

         23         to us.

         24              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, we do.

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  And what we're doing is making sure

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          1         that you all are aware of what's happening out in the

          2         field.  And then if you see something that should come to

          3         the attention of the Board, you can bring it to our

          4         attention.  My concern is that there is things happening

          5         out in the field that may not even get up to you.

          6              MS. CASTILLE:  Are you referring to -- which district

          7         directors, water management district directors or the DEP

          8         district directors?

          9              CFO GALLAGHER:  If both of them are involved --

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  Well, the DEP district directors do

         11         work with us and come to us and come to me specifically on

         12         controversial issues.  So if we're talking about water

         13         management district and what we delegate to the water

         14         management district, those ultimately are joint permits,

         15         IRC permits that also have uplands associated with them,

         16         upland projects associated with them.  And the upland

         17         projects are generally what the controversy is for the

         18         most part and that gets us back into the issue of zoning

         19         and much like the administration commission and the

         20         FLAWAC.

         21              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, like them.  But they become

         22         heightened public concern and I think at least our staff

         23         should know about those.  That doesn't mean it has to come

         24         in front of the Board, it's just a matter of letting us

         25         know that those issues exist.

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          1              MS. CASTILLE:  Okay.  We can do that.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  All right.  There is a motion.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  And a second.  Any other discussion?

          5         Without objection, the motion is approved.  I guess that's

          6         item -- you're also including Item 12 in there?

          7              CFO GALLAGHER:  That is included.  It's added to 12.

          8              THE GOVERNOR:  So that was an amended motion.

          9              CFO GALLAGHER:  Now this delegation is for what

         10         period of time?  Is this an open-ended deal?

         11              MS. CASTILLE:  Yes.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I think it ought to be other

         13         than open-ended.  So I think we ought to discuss --

         14              MS. CASTILLE:  How about the end of your term as

         15         treasurer?

         16              (Laughter.)

         17              THE GOVERNOR:  Did you just say that out loud?

         18              MS. CASTILLE:  Your term as treasurer, sir.

         19              CFO GALLAGHER:  I see you want my turn to be over.

         20              MS. CASTILLE:  Now why would I want that?  I worked

         21         for you for 17 years now.

         22              THE GOVERNOR:  Did you say that out loud?

         23              MS. CASTILLE:  Well, to the end of the term of the

         24         cabinet members because everybody's term ends on the same

         25         thing, December 31st, 2005.

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          1              CFO GALLAGHER:  Wouldn't they want to look at it one

          2         more time?

          3              (Laughter.)

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  All right, so --

          5              CFO GALLAGHER:  How about a year from now we'll look

          6         at it because during that period of time we will have seen

          7         what comes through.

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  That's a most excellent suggestion,

          9         sir.

         10              THE GOVERNOR:  Nice comeback, Colleen.

         11              (Laughter.)

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Good cause item.

         13              CFO GALLAGHER:  We didn't finish that motion with the

         14         one year.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  We've already approved the -- well,

         16         the motion as amended.  Now we're adding another feature

         17         which is the request to review the delegation altogether

         18         in September of 2004 --

         19              CFO GALLAGHER:  Five.

         20              MS. CASTILLE:  Five.

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  Five.  Halfway through the end of your

         22         term and mine.  Okay.  If you got all that, you're doing

         23         pretty good.

         24              MS. CASTILLE:  Could we go back to Item 4, the City

         25         of Palm Bay -- I'm sorry, Item 3, the sublease with DHS.

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          1              THE GOVERNOR:  Sure.

          2              MS. CASTILLE:  We have looked at the two clauses in

          3         the lease that talk about the opting out of the sublessee

          4         and it is much too one-sided.  And so we would like to go

          5         back and change that language.  Would you prefer to

          6         approve it with language --

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  No.

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  Then we will defer this item until the

          9         October --

         10              THE GOVERNOR:  And we should review all leases of the

         11         Department of Children and Families if this basic

         12         fundamental thing of State property being tied up for a

         13         long period of time where there is a service relationship

         14         it should be ironclad that if the contract is terminated

         15         for whatever reason, could be that there is a budget

         16         shortfall, could be a variety of reasons, that the lease

         17         is cancelled as well.  I mean, my gosh.

         18              So when you come for the approval, I would hope we

         19         also could ask the Department to come and say they

         20         reviewed the other leases that may be similar to this.

         21              CFO GALLAGHER:  See, one of the things that exist is

         22         when we lease property from someone there is a mandatory

         23         clause in there that says any budget -- the Legislature

         24         has a final say if they change the budget.  This is the

         25         opposite.  We're leasing it to somebody else for a dollar

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          1         a year and we're not covered because it's them paying us.

          2         There's no legislative language in there and that's why

          3         there is not.  So I don't really know what to do about

          4         that, but I think it's something that we -- we have a huge

          5         property that's out there for a buck a year until 2032.

          6         Isn't that what it was, something?

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  Fifteen years, I think.

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  Twelve years.

          9              THE GOVERNOR:  Twelve years.

         10              CFO GALLAGHER:  Thought I saw 2032 in this thing.

         11              MS. CASTILLE:  We will work with the Department of

         12         Children and Families to have them review their leases and

         13         we'll also make the change on this lease and bring it back

         14         on October 26th which is the next time we have an agenda.

         15              THE GOVERNOR:  Okay.  Thank you.  All right.

         16              MS. CASTILLE:  Item 13 is consideration of a request

         17         to approve a ten-year lease with four 10-year renewal

         18         options to the Department of Management Services.  It is

         19         for 40 acres of property which is commonly known as the

         20         Doral property in Miami-Dade County.  The property has

         21         been used for -- adjacent property has been used for the

         22         building of -- a building for South Com whose presence in

         23         Miami generates in excess of $107 million to the local

         24         economy.

         25              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

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          1              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          2              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.  Any

          3         discussion?  Without objection, the item is passed.

          4              MS. CASTILLE:  Great.

          5              THE GOVERNOR:  Thank you all very much.

          6              MS. CASTILLE:  Sir, on Item 3, we need a motion.

          7              THE GOVERNOR:  To defer?

          8              MS. CASTILLE:  A motion to defer until the 26th.

          9              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer until October 5th.

         10              MS. CASTILLE:  October 26th.

         11              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion to defer until

         12         October 26th and a second.  Without objection, the item is

         13         deferred.  Thank you.

         14              MS. CASTILLE:  Thank you, sir.












                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                     STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION - 9/21/04

          1              THE GOVERNOR:  State Board of Administration.

          2              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  There's a motion and a second.

          5         Without objection, the item passes.

          6              Item 2.

          7              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Is a request for approval of fiscal

          8         sufficiency of an amount not exceeding 100,000,000, State

          9         of Florida full faith and credit, State Board of

         10         Education, public education capital outlay bonds.

         11              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.

         12              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

         13              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         14         objection, the item passes.

         15              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Item 3 is a request for approval of

         16         fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding 363,825,000

         17         State of Florida Department of Transportation turnpike

         18         revenue bonds.

         19              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

         20              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         21              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         22         objection, the item passes.

         23              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Item 4 is request for approval of

         24         fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding 12,500,000

         25         State of Florida, Florida Education System, University of

                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                     STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION - 9/21/04

          1         South Florida parking facility revenue bonds.

          2              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion on 4.

          3              CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

          4              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

          5         objection, the item passes.

          6              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Final item.  Request for approval

          7         of fiscal sufficiency of amount not exceeding 3,850,000,

          8         State of Florida, Florida Education System, University of

          9         South Florida parking facility revenue bonds.

         10              CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion.

         11              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

         12              THE GOVERNOR:  Moved and seconded.  Without

         13         objection, the item passes.  Thank you, Coleman.

         14              (Thereupon, the proceedings concluded at 11:35 a.m.)












                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                     STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION - 9/21/04


          2                        CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER


          4    STATE OF FLORIDA    )

          5    COUNTY OF LEON      )


          7              I, KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter, certify that

          8    the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and

          9    place therein designated; that my shorthand notes were

         10    thereafter translated under my supervision; and the foregoing

         11    pages numbered 1 through 110 are a true and correct record of

         12    the aforesaid proceedings.


         14              I further certify that I am not a relative, employee,

         15    attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative

         16    or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel

         17    connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in

         18    the action.

         19              DATED this 1st day of October, 2004.

         20                              ______________________________

         21                             KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter
                                        Notary Public
         22                             850-878-2221




                                   ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.