Click here to MyFlorida Home Page  
Clear Dot Image Cabinet Affairs












                              The above agencies came to be heard before
                   THE FLORIDA CABINET, The Honorable Governor Bush
                   presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The
                   Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, August 10,
                   2004, commencing at approximately 9:15 a.m.



                                         Reported by:

                                       MARY ALLEN NEEL
                               Registered Professional Reporter




                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                       100 SALEM COURT
                                  TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA  32301




                            Representing the Florida Cabinet:

                                 JEB BUSH

                                 CHARLES H. BRONSON
                                 Commissioner of Agriculture

                                 CHARLIE CRIST
                                 Attorney General

                                 TOM GALLAGHER
                                 Chief Financial Officer


                                          *   *   *



                                          I N D E X

                   DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                   (Presented by Ben Watkins)

                   ITEM                   ACTION                       PAGE

                   1                      Approved                        5
                   2                      Approved                        5
                   3                      Approved                        6
                   4                      Approved                        6
                   5                      Approved                        6

                   (Presented by Don Saxon)

                   ITEM                   ACTION                       PAGE

                   1                      Approved                        8
                   2                      Approved                        9
                   3                      Accepted                       11

                   (Presented by Barbara Leighty)

                   ITEM                   ACTION                       PAGE

                   1                      Approved                       12
                   2                      Approved                       12
                   3                      Approved                       12

                   POWER PLANT SITING BOARD
                   (Presented by Colleen Castille)

                   1                      Approved                       13
                   2                      Approved                       13



                   (Presented by Colleen Castille)

                   ITEM                   ACTION                       PAGE

                   1                      Deferred                       14
                   2                      Deferred                       14
                   3                      Withdrawn                      16
                   4                      Withdrawn                      16
                   5                      Approved                       17
                   6                      Approved                       18
                   7                      Deferred                       18
                   8                      Approved                       50

                   (Presented by Coleman Stipanovich)

                   ITEM                   ACTION                       PAGE

                   1                      Approved                       52
                   2                      Approved                       52
                   3                      Approved                       52
                   4                      Accepted                       53

                   CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER                               54


            1                       P R O C E E D I N G S

            2               GOVERNOR BUSH:  The next Cabinet meeting -- no

            3          resolutions today.  The next Cabinet meeting is

            4          Tuesday, August 24th, where I'm sure we'll have all

            5          sorts of resolutions.

            6               Division of Bond Finance.

            7               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

            8               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second. 

           10          Without objection, Item 1 passes.

           11               MR. WATKINS:  Item number 2 is a resolution

           12          authorizing the issuance of $473,500,000 in PECO

           13          bonds and authorizing the competitive sale of $200

           14          million of that authorization.

           15               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 2.

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.

           17               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           18          objection, the item passes.

           19               MR. WATKINS:  Item number 3 is a resolution

           20          authorizing the issuance of up to $12-1/2 million in

           21          parking facility revenue bonds for the University of

           22          South Florida.

           23               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3. 

           24               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

           25               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without


            1          objection, the motion passes.

            2               MR. WATKINS:  Item number 4 is a resolution

            3          authorizing the issuance of up to $36-1/2 million of

            4          housing facility revenue bonds for Florida

            5          International University.

            6               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 4.

            7               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

            8               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           10          objection, the motion passes.

           11               MR. WATKINS:  And item number 5 is a report of

           12          award on the competitive sale of $300 million of

           13          right-of-way acquisition and bridge construction

           14          bonds.  The bonds were awarded to the low bidder at

           15          a true interest cost of 4.73 percent.

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.

           17               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second. 

           18               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           19          objection, the item passes.

           20               What's the Fed going to do today? 

           21               MR. WATKINS:  The conventional wisdom has them

           22          moving a quarter point.

           23               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Up?

           24               MR. WATKINS:  Up.  But that being said, the

           25          employment numbers last week came in weaker than


            1          expected, and so rates come down.  So it has been a

            2          random walk this summer, but rates are still

            3          extraordinarily attractive on a long-term basis.

            4               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Ben, have you had a chance to

            5          visit with my office regarding -- this is an

            6          off-Cabinet subject, but I don't get to see you

            7          often -- on the Everglades, the Water Management

            8          District proposal?

            9               MR. WATKINS:  Yes, sir, I have, and I'm

           10          available at your convenience to discuss that.

           11               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.  Thank you.

           12               MR. WATKINS:  Just let me know.

           13               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.














            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Office of Financial

            2          Regulation.  Mr. Saxon, good morning.

            3               MR. SAXON:  Good morning, Governor.  And allow

            4          me to congratulate you on the marriage of your son. 

            5          Wish you all the best.

            6               CFO GALLAGHER:  Many grandchildren.

            7               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Exactly.  Is there a motion on

            8          Item 1?

            9               (Laughter.)

           10               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes.  On the many grandchildren

           11          part or the -- is there a motion?

           12               CFO GALLAGHER:  He didn't do one yet, did you?

           13               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, we're ready to.

           14               MR. SAXON:  Not yet.  Adoption of the

           15          amendments to Rules 3C-560.103 --

           16               GOVERNOR BUSH:  No motion on the minutes.

           17               MR. SAXON:  3C-560.707.

           18               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 1. 

           19               MR. SAXON:  3C-560.805, 3C-560.902, 3C-560.903,

           20          3C-560.904, and 3C-560.908, Florida Administrative

           21          Code.

           22               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           23               CFO GALLAGHER:  There's a motion and a second. 

           24          Without objection, the item passes.

           25               MR. SAXON:  Second, the adoption of repeal to


            1          Rule 3E-301.005, Florida Administrative Code.

            2               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 2.

            3               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

            4               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Motion and a second.  Without

            5          objection, the item passes.

            6               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to receive the

            7          quarterly report.

            8               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Would you like to comment on

           10          the quarterly report?

           11               MR. SAXON:  Yes, I could, sir, if you would

           12          like.  I would like to tell you that in all of our

           13          functional areas, we seem to be doing very well as

           14          far as growth is concerned.  Just a couple of

           15          examples.  In securities, Florida is now ranked in

           16          the top three in the number of agents that we have

           17          that can sell and buy securities for others.  We're

           18          also ranked third in the state in terms of the

           19          numbers of firms that are licensed to do business in

           20          the State of Florida.  And we've had a 77 percent

           21          increase since 1999 in the number of branch offices

           22          that are domiciled here in the State of Florida.  We

           23          now have over 8,500 branch offices selling

           24          securities for others.

           25               In our credit unions, we're ranked in the top


            1          five in assets that are under supervision, and they

            2          now serve over 4 million citizens in the State of

            3          Florida.  We have 194 institutions that are

            4          chartered as banks that will receive $46 billion in

            5          assets.  We've seen a 41 percent increase in terms

            6          of banks that have been doing business in the State

            7          of Florida for less than five years.  And in the

            8          last five years, over 85 percent of any banks that

            9          come into the State of Florida are seeking state

           10          chartered regulation versus being regulated by the

           11          Feds.  And we also have currently 14 applications

           12          that are pending to be chartered as state

           13          institutions now in the State of Florida.

           14               On the mortgage broker side, we have 45,000 

           15          mortgage brokers, and we have 15,000 mortgage broker

           16          businesses.  That's a 38 percent increase since the

           17          beginning of the millenium.  And we recently were

           18          accredited by the CSBS.  That's the Conference of

           19          State Banking Supervisors, which accredits us for

           20          the work that we do in regulating state institutions

           21          in the State of Florida.  This is a group that comes

           22          in that's made up of other states, and they certify

           23          that we are doing business in a way that is

           24          commensurate with the way other way states regulate

           25          banks and the way the Feds regulate banks.  And at


            1          this time we're also looking to get accredited for

            2          the first time for our credit unions and our

            3          examination program in that area.

            4               And if you go through the report, you'll see in

            5          all of our functional areas that we've been very

            6          aggressive in trying to do what we can to protect

            7          consumers out there where our industries are

            8          wronging our consumers.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any questions?  There's a

           10          motion to accept the report and a second.  Without

           11          objection, it is accepted.

           12               Thank you, Don.  Appreciate the report.















            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Florida Land and Water

            2          Adjudicatory Commission.

            3               MS. LEIGHTY:  Good morning.  I'm Barbara

            4          Leighty.  Teresa Tinker is on leave.

            5               Item 1 is recommend approval of the minutes of

            6          the June 24th meeting.

            7               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

            8               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           10          objection, the item passes.

           11               MS. LEIGHTY:  Item 2, request approval of the

           12          proposed final rule establishing the Tern Bay

           13          Community Development District in Charlotte County.

           14               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 2.

           15               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           16               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second. 

           17          Without objection, the item passes.

           18               MS. LEIGHTY:  Item 3, request approval of the

           19          proposed final rule establishing the Concord Station

           20          Community Development District in Pasco County.

           21               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

           22               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

           23               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           24          objection, the item passes.

           25               Thank you.


            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Power Plant Siting Board.

            2               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

            3               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            4               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

            5          objection, the item passes.

            6               MS. CASTILLE:  Item number 2 is consideration

            7          of an ALJ's recommended order finding that FP&L's

            8          Turkey Point power plant site is consistent and in

            9          compliance with the existing land use plans.  FP&L

           10          has applied for certification of an 1,150 megawatt

           11          natural gas-fired power -- combined cycle steam

           12          electric generating system as an expansion of their

           13          Turkey Point power plant.

           14               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 2.

           15               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

           16               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           17          objection, the item passes.










            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Board of Trustees of the

            2          Internal Improvement Trust Fund.

            3               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer Item 1 to

            4          September 21st.

            5               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            6               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to defer Item

            7          1 to September 21st and a second.  Without

            8          objection, the item passes.

            9               CFO GALLAGHER:  Item 2, defer till August 24th.

           10               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           11               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There is a motion to defer Item

           12          2 till -- when is it?

           13               CFO GALLAGHER:  August 24th.

           14               GOVERNOR BUSH:  August 24th.  And a second. 

           15          Without objection, the item is deferred.

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to withdrew Item 3 and

           17          Item 4.

           18               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Wait a second.  Can we have a

           19          little discussion on Item 3?

           20               CFO GALLAGHER:  Sure.

           21               MS. CASTILLE:  We sure can.

           22               GOVERNOR BUSH:  This is the one that we asked

           23          to go back to the drawing boards?

           24               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, sir.

           25               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Commissioner Bronson, do you


            1          have any thoughts?  Since this is a Division of

            2          Forestry property, I want to show a little

            3          deference.

            4               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, we're still --

            5          we're trying to work out the issue.  We think there

            6          is a chance to try to work this out.  I know my

            7          staff is working with those involved, and it is an

            8          issue that we really need to concentrate on doing

            9          something with, simply because we have people across

           10          the state who want the place, since the State is

           11          buying land on behalf of the people, that they can

           12          actually use.  And we're trying to create a

           13          situation where it is going to be environmentally --

           14          I guess I would say safe, but environmentally

           15          positive to use this facility in such a way that

           16          we're not going to harm the environment, but yet

           17          give the public a chance to use these properties. 

           18          But we're still working on it, and I believe we can

           19          come up with a solution hopefully by the next --

           20               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Would it make sense then not to

           21          withdraw the motion, but to defer it?

           22               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, they can bring it back up

           23          anytime they want, including the next meeting.  And

           24          if they're ready for the next, they will, and if

           25          they're not, they'll wait till they are.


            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  So withdrawing doesn't change

            2          the --

            3               CFO GALLAGHER:  No.  It just makes it easier

            4          for them to figure out when they're ready to bring

            5          it to us.

            6               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.  Are you good with that?

            7               CFO GALLAHAGER:  Three and 4, withdraw.

            8               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to withdraw

            9          Items 3 and 4. 

           10               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           11               GOVERNOR BUSH:  And a second.  Without

           12          objection, both items are withdrawn.

           13               MS. CASTILLE:  Item 5.  Governor and members of

           14          the Cabinet, this is the consideration of an option

           15          agreement on 9.16 acres in Monroe County.  This is a

           16          part of our initiative to work out with the County. 

           17          This is our second acquisition, and we are in the

           18          process of determining how to use the $10 million

           19          for water and sewer that was in the budget, and

           20          we're working on an agreement on that with the

           21          communities down there.  And so this is our part of

           22          the deal, and we continue to work on it. 

           23               This particular parcel, if you recall, the Keys

           24          properties are the only tropical hardwood forests

           25          that we have in the continental U.S., and this


            1          particular site contains just over eight acres of

            2          undisturbed high quality hammock.  The purchase

            3          price for the property is 385,000, and we are

            4          purchasing it from Monroe County Land Acquisition

            5          Authority, Land Authority, which allows them to

            6          utilize -- they have a dual role.  They can use some

            7          of their money for land acquisition for conservation

            8          lands, and they can also use it for affordable

            9          housing.  So us buying the property for them frees

           10          up their dollars for affordable housing as well.

           11               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.

           12               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

           13               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           14               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second. 

           15          Without objection, the item passes.

           16               MS. CASTILLE:  Item 6 is the consideration of

           17          an option agreement to acquire 23.5 acres in Terra

           18          Ceia in Pinellas County from the Nature Conservancy. 

           19          The goal of this particular acquisition is to

           20          preserve the natural creek system which provides

           21          proper nutrients to Bishop's Harbor and to Terra

           22          Ceia Bay.  The price for this acquisition is

           23          $360,500, which includes closing costs for the

           24          Nature Conservancy.

           25               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 6.


            1               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            2               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second.

            3          Without objection, the item passes.

            4               This is in Manatee County, correct, not

            5          Pinellas?

            6               MS. CASTILLE:  I'm sorry.  Manatee County, yes,

            7          sir.

            8               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.

            9               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer number 7 to

           10          August 24th.

           11               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           12               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to defer Item

           13          7 and a second.  Without objection, the motion is

           14          deferred till August 24th -- the item is deferred.

           15               MS. CASTILLE:  Item 8 is a little bit of a

           16          controversial item we've been working with over the

           17          summer.  It's a -- let me set up the item for you. 

           18          It's a determination that a 1.86-acre parcel of

           19          state-owned land is no longer needed for

           20          conservation purposes.

           21               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Secretary, can you change the

           22          picture here on the screen? 

           23               MS. CASTILLE:  Oh, yes, sir. 

           24               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.  This is a new

           25          system we've got.  This is very exciting, except 


            1          that doesn't mean anything right there.

            2               MS. CASTILLE:  Can you see it?

            3               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes.  We've got it in a better

            4          form that's easier to follow, I think.  It's a

            5          little complicated.

            6               MS. CASTILLE:  What you see before you -- let

            7          me just sort of set up the map for you.  What you

            8          see before you is a trail which is adjacent to I-95

            9          on the north-south -- on the right side of the page.

           10          The green in there is the proposed trail.  If you

           11          see the blue dotted lines, that's a proposed roadway

           12          that is required to be built as a part of the

           13          Florida Landmark Communities development of the

           14          area, development which has 2,500 dwelling units and

           15          a number of commercial developments to support that

           16          neighborhood.

           17               This is a very hot growing area of the state. 

           18          If you look at -- there are some other maps that we

           19          have there.  You can see that there are a number of

           20          roadways that are already built for housing

           21          developments as well.  The County has been

           22          adequately planning for their growth.  They have two

           23          roads that are going to be major north-south

           24          connector roads.  One of them is Old Kings Road,

           25          which is to the right of I-95.  And to the left,


            1          about the center of the page, is the Belle Terre

            2          roadway, two major north-south connectors.

            3               This particular roadway that is being built

            4          here will be to take some of the pressure off those

            5          two north-south connectors for the development

            6          itself and for the Town Center itself.  The greenway

            7          is designed as a part of that Town Center as well.

            8               As we develop the trail systems in the State of

            9          Florida, what we try to do is, we try to accommodate

           10          development, but we also try to make sure that the

           11          public is safe in the location of the trails.  And

           12          part of what we're doing is to have a 12-foot-wide

           13          pedestrian trail, an FDOT approved overpass at this

           14          road, trail landscaping, physical barriers under

           15          I-95 to protect the pedestrians, because at that

           16          point, that's where all of the traffic will be

           17          bottlenecked together, and then construction of the

           18          3,600 linear feet of trails as a part of the Town

           19          Center project.  And we appreciate working with the

           20          developer on these pieces of property and on the

           21          development of this trail.

           22               When we develop trails with a community, we try

           23          to develop with the developer as well as -- with the

           24          developer's money, with the community's money, and

           25          with FDOT's money, as well as our money.  And in


            1          order to make that money go further, we try to

            2          leverage as much as we can from the community.

            3               In this particular case, we will have

            4          difficulties over those two north-south connectors

            5          that I mentioned to you earlier, Kings Highway and

            6          Belle Terre.  Those are also locations that we would

            7          hope to get ISTEA money that we can leverage for

            8          from USDOT and from Florida DOT for overhead trails

            9          there as well.

           10               This is not an unusual situation.  We generally

           11          work with communities to do this.  And I want to

           12          show you a picture of a couple of different trails.

           13               The one that I can remember last coming here

           14          about -- can you switch over to me for the dotcam? 

           15          The ones that I remember coming --

           16               GOVERNOR BUSH:  I like this new system.

           17               MS. CASTILLE:  -- to are in Seminole County and

           18          the West Orange Trail that we worked out through the

           19          community.  Now, this particular -- there are

           20          different levels of prices. 

           21               The issue here is whether the developer should

           22          be required to build a trail overhead at this

           23          location.  When we signed a contract with the

           24          community to buy the trail and to establish the

           25          trail, the commitment was that if an overhead was


            1          needed -- I mean an over-road bridge was needed,

            2          that they would be committed to developing that as

            3          well.

            4               CFO GALLAGHER:  Is that part of the contract

            5          that was written when they --

            6               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes.

            7               CFO GALLAGHER:  When we sold to them?

            8               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, it was.

            9               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, then they knew it was

           10          coming.

           11               MS. CASTILLE:  When we did some other trails

           12          around the Orange County area, which you know has

           13          explosive growth, there were a number of roadways in

           14          Seminole and Orange County that were six-lane roads

           15          and were slated to be six-lane roads.  This

           16          particular trailhead overpass -- not trailhead, but

           17          trail overpass, is at State Road 434, and this

           18          particular one is a $2 million --

           19               GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's got to be more than that.

           20               MS. CASTILLE:  A $2 million -- can you zoom in

           21          a little bit, Michael?  It's a $2 million trailhead. 

           22          The trailheads come in various prices and various

           23          designs.

           24               GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's 2 million?

           25               MS. CASTILLE:  This one is 2 million, this one


            1          is 3 million, and this is over the Cady Way Trail

            2          over State Road 436, which is a major statewide

            3          connector in Central Florida.

            4               Now, this one is the one that you typically

            5          see.  It is the low cost option, $500,000.  It

            6          certainly doesn't beautify a community, but it

            7          certainly meets the need of safety of the public who

            8          is traversing the trail.

            9               CFO GALLAGHER:  Is the left side of this a ramp

           10          that a bike can go down?

           11               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, it is.

           12               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Colleen, isn't there a process

           13          where after a certain traffic level, or if you go

           14          from two lanes to four lanes or four lanes to six

           15          lanes, that triggers the requirement of a solution

           16          like this?

           17               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, it does.  And that's what

           18          we're recommending here, that when that traffic

           19          count is reached that we would -- that the developer

           20          would help to -- help us achieve that, the developer

           21          and the County would help us achieve that.

           22               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, why should we care who

           23          pays for it?  Shouldn't that be a local decision? 

           24          As long as we have an agreement that it happens when

           25          either the road is widened or there's the traffic


            1          flow, why do we want to be so prescriptive about

            2          hitting up the County or hitting up the developer?

            3               MS. CASTILLE:  Well, this is what we typically

            4          negotiate internally at DEP, and we have been unable

            5          to negotiate this particular deal.

            6               The benefit inures to the community for the

            7          moving of this particular roadway here, and so we --

            8               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, what's the concern about

            9          leaving it open-ended about how it's paid for and

           10          only require that it be done?

           11               MS. CASTILLE:  Because DEP usually gets the

           12          short end of the stick.  The public ends up having

           13          to pay for all of it.

           14               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Public like us?

           15               MS. CASTILLE:  Public like us.

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, let me ask you a question

           17          here.  This particular developer pretty much gave us

           18          an unbelievable deal on this property that we bought

           19          compared to today's value.  Do you agree? 

           20               MS. CASTILLE:  I agree.  It is also an

           21          unbelievable benefit that happens to a community

           22          that has a trail.

           23               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, that's all well and

           24          good.  We get a trail that will be there forever,

           25          which is a wonderful thing.  It's good for the


            1          community.  And we do need an overpass. 

            2               Now, my question is, he gave -- we got a good

            3          deal.  Obviously, somebody messed up in how much he

            4          needed to retain to get his roadway correct.  In

            5          other words, he's going to put his Town Center

            6          there, and he needs four to six lanes to get people

            7          in and out of there comfortably, and he doesn't have

            8          that.

            9               MS. CASTILLE:  Right.

           10               CFO GALLAGHER:  So he now needs to buy it back

           11          from us, what he sold us, and we're charging him a

           12          lot more than we paid for it, and we're declaring a

           13          surplus because the County needs this.  So here's

           14          somebody who, in their mind -- and we can look at it

           15          either way -- in their mind, did the right thing

           16          giving us the property or selling it to us so we

           17          would have a trail.  At the same time, that would be

           18          good for his community because there's a trail, and

           19          I agree with that.

           20               And now the question is, we're charging him a

           21          lot of money to get the little tiny piece he wants

           22          back so he can put his road in, and we're making him

           23          build the bridge. 

           24               MS. CASTILLE:  Because we have to build two

           25          more bridges.  And in order to leverage the public


            1          dollars, we're trying to get the developer that's

            2          increasing the density, that's increasing the

            3          traffic count, to participate in this as well.

            4               CFO GALLAGHER:  But all of things are done --

            5          all these increases are done by local government,

            6          not by us.  We're not the ones that say what you can

            7          build there.  That's local government saying you can

            8          put a Town Center, you can put this many houses, you

            9          can put --

           10               MS. CASTILLE:  Well, except that -- is this a

           11          community development district?  Is this a community

           12          development district?

           13               UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  Yes. 

           14               MS. CASTILLE:  Okay.  So it was approved by the

           15          Governor and Cabinet under FLAWAC.

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  But that was way back.

           17               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes.

           18               CFO GALLAGHER:  And he's already got that.

           19               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes.

           20               CFO GALLAGHER:  He gave us the land, and he got

           21          that, and he's sitting there.  And, listen, I think

           22          there ought to be the overpass.  I think it ought to

           23          be put in.  But I think we ought to require that it

           24          be put in and let the developer and the local

           25          government figure out when and how.


            1               MS. CASTILLE:  Well, the requirement -- and

            2          that we can do.  But what we're requesting is that

            3          it be a requirement that there be an overpass at the

            4          point in time when the traffic is increased.

            5               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Isn't that the law already?

            6               MS. CASTILLE:  No, it is not.

            7               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Isn't there a trigger for --

            8          that DOT can't approve a road if it --

            9               MS. CASTILLE:  No. 

           10               CFO GALLAGHER:  They could put a light there,

           11          I guess.

           12               MS. CASTILLE:  I'm sorry, sir? 

           13               CFO GALLAGHER:  They could put a light there.

           14               GOVERNOR BUSH:  They could probably do both. 

           15               MS. CASTILLE:  They could put a light, but the

           16          light doesn't necessarily stop children from

           17          crossing when they shouldn't, and that's what part

           18          of the problem is here.

           19               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, do we have speakers,

           20          Colleen?

           21               MS. CASTILLE:  Yes, sir, we do have speakers.

           22               GOVERNOR BUSH:  I thought maybe we did.

           23               MS. CASTILLE:  We have City Councilman John

           24          Netts, County Commissioner Jim Darby, and Florida

           25          Landmark Communities representative Charlie Faulkner


            1          as well.

            2               Commissioner Netts, would you like to speak

            3          first?

            4               MR. NETTS:  Thank you.  Good morning,

            5          gentlemen, and thank you for the opportunity to

            6          speak to you this morning.

            7               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good morning.

            8               MR. NETTS:  I'm John Netts, Council of the City

            9          of Palm Coast.  And I would like to preface my

           10          remarks by saying that I stand here on behalf of the

           11          entire City Council.  Your staff has a resolution

           12          that was unanimously adopted by the City of Palm

           13          Coast supporting the County's application for the

           14          surplusing of this land.

           15               I would like to give you some background as to

           16          why the City is interested in this or involved in

           17          this at all.  People have asked me, "Why does the

           18          City care?" 

           19               Here again is the property in question.  I-95,

           20          State Road 100, Palm Coast Parkway.  The City of

           21          Palm Coast, as you know, is perhaps one of the most

           22          rapidly growing cities in the state.  We went from a

           23          census count of 30,000 to -- we recently recognized

           24          the arrival of our 50,000th resident, and we

           25          anticipate by the end of the next fiscal year that


            1          there will be in excess of 60,000 residents in Palm

            2          Coast.  Now, this is not without its problems.

            3               GOVERNOR BUSH:  10,000 new residents in one

            4          year?

            5               MR. NETTS:  Yes, sir.  It's growing by leaps

            6          and bounds.  The best kept secret in Florida is no

            7          longer a well kept secret.

            8               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, if you've got 850 people

            9          moving in Florida a day, they've got to be

           10          somewhere.  I think a bunch of them are --

           11               MR. NETTS:  We're doing 500, 600 single-family

           12          residence permits a month. 

           13               CFO GALLAGHER:  Holy mackerel.

           14               MR. NETTS:  It's growing rapidly.

           15               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  They're all moving

           16          there.

           17               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Welcome to Florida.

           18               MR. NETTS:  As I say, this growth is not

           19          without problems.  If you want to move north and

           20          south, you want to travel north and south in our

           21          city, that's not too much of a problem.  Old Kings

           22          Road runs north and south, I-95 runs north and

           23          south, and Belle Terre Parkway runs north and

           24          south.  Our problem is traveling east and west. 

           25          Palm Coast Parkway, which is north of this project,


            1          is really the only north-south connector.  State

            2          Road 100 is in the process of being widened right

            3          now, and the City of Palm Coast has instituted a CRA

            4          to help develop that and make this an alternative

            5          gateway into the city.

            6               The issue that we face is lots and lots of

            7          single-family residence lots, such that the

            8          potential tax base as the City grows is going to be

            9          heavily dependent on homeowners.  When Town Center

           10          was first proposed before we incorporated as a city,

           11          we felt it was going to be a tremendous asset to the

           12          City, because it brings jobs, it brings business, it

           13          brings other things for our taxpayers.

           14               When we incorporated as a city, we became

           15          intimately involved in the DRI negotiations.  Town

           16          Center, this proposed project, is an integral part

           17          of our strategic plan.  It will provide alternative

           18          shopping.  It will provide relief from our congested

           19          Palm Coast Parkway.  So we have put -- as a city,

           20          our staff, our government has put a tremendous

           21          amount of time and effort into negotiating this

           22          DRI. 

           23               The ironic thing is that when the original land

           24          sale that the Governor referred to was consummated,

           25          the developer retained an easement on some five


            1          acres, knowing full well that at some point some

            2          road was going to have to cross the trail.

            3               When the City became involved, we said, "No, we

            4          think there's a better way."  And -- let's see if

            5          I've got a graphic that better represents this.

            6               GOVERNOR BUSH:  This is north of Palm Coast?

            7               MR. NETTS:  No, this is in the south central

            8          region of Palm Coast. 

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.

           10               MR. NETTS:  Palm Coast started developing along

           11          Palm Coast Parkway, where it has fleshed out.  This

           12          is south of that.

           13               CFO GALLAGHER:  Is Royal Palms Boulevard the

           14          same as Palm Coast Parkway?

           15               MR. NETTS:  No, sir.  Royal Palms currently is

           16          a road that goes nowhere.  Royal Palms Parkway stops

           17          about here. 

           18               What the City said is that to facilitate travel

           19          within our city, it would make sense to continue

           20          Royal Palms Parkway across under 95 and tie into Old

           21          Kings Road.  That will be an additional east-west

           22          connector.

           23               There is a road here, Seminole Woods Parkway,

           24          that doesn't show well, that dead-ends.  Our thought

           25          and the input from the City was to continue Seminole


            1          Woods Parkway up through the development, dead-end

            2          it into Royal Palms, so that you kind of grid the

            3          city better than it currently is.

            4               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Why don't we focus on our

            5          little role in this. 

            6               MR. NETTS:  Yes.

            7               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Because I'm sure you guys can

            8          work out your local development issues locally.

            9               MR. NETTS:  I certainly hope we can.

           10               The point I was trying to make was that because

           11          of the City's input, the developer had to move his

           12          site.  This is the new site, and --

           13               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.

           14               MR. NETTS:  -- this is where we envision a

           15          trailhead. 

           16               Town Center is a unique development.  It is

           17          pedestrian friendly.  It is vehicular unfriendly. 

           18          It is consciously being designed that way, wide

           19          sidewalks, canopied awnings, park and get out and

           20          walk, much like old downtown Florida cities.  The

           21          trail supports that. 

           22               The concept, however, of an overpass does not

           23          fit with our vision.  What the City envisions this

           24          trail being or this intersection being is a

           25          trailhead, perhaps borrowing some design elements


            1          from Town Center, slightly elevated brick pavers, a

            2          wide median, a refuge area if you can.  We envision

            3          this becoming a major trailhead with trailhead

            4          amenities. 

            5               We feel that an overpass, while it certainly

            6          does address the issue of safety, is not the only

            7          way to address this issue of safety.  We feel that

            8          you can do an at-grade crossing more consistent with

            9          the overall theme of Town Center.

           10               The other point that I would like to make is

           11          that --

           12               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Even with six lanes on both

           13          these highways, these north-south arteries?

           14               MR. NETTS:  Currently Belle Terre Parkway,

           15          which is north-south, is four lanes.  It will

           16          probably go to six lanes at some point.  Old Kings

           17          Road is currently scheduled to be four-laned.

           18               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Right.  So --

           19               MR. NETTS:  But those are major 45-mile-an-hour

           20          roads.  The road that the trail is going to cross,

           21          Seminole Woods Parkway, will be a 25-mile-an-hour

           22          road.  Where would it get its traffic from?  For the

           23          most part, it will get its northbound traffic from

           24          within Town Center.  Keep in mind that Town Center

           25          is pedestrian friendly, vehicular unfriendly.  There


            1          is already a pedestrian favorable mind-set as they

            2          approach the trail. 

            3               So we think that a better way to address the

            4          issue of safety is to design an at-grade crossing,

            5          and we think it can be done very well. 

            6               The other problem that we see is that a project

            7          of this magnitude is probably going to have a 15- to

            8          20-year build-out.  The project is going to evolve

            9          during those 15 to 20 years.  We think -- we at the

           10          City feel that it's inappropriate to try to

           11          determine now what you're going to need in the

           12          future.  We don't know what that crossing is going

           13          to be like.  We don't know what the traffic levels

           14          are going to be.  We do know that many of the

           15          traffic study assumptions that were made prior to

           16          the Town Center DRI have already been changed, the

           17          widening of State Road 100, the City's Community

           18          Redevelopment Agency, the construction of the

           19          Matanzas Woods overpass, which is going to create an

           20          even further north east-west connector.  These have

           21          all changed many of the fundamental assumptions

           22          about traffic.

           23               GOVERNOR BUSH:  So the City's position is,

           24          don't require us to have an overpass.

           25               MR. NETTS:  The City --


            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  To synthesize this down.

            2               MR. NETTS:  Yes, sir.  The City's position is

            3          that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the County

            4          in saying that this is a local issue, this is an

            5          issue that is best left in our hands.  We could

            6          resolve the issue of pedestrian safety.  Palm Coast

            7          is dedicated to bike paths and trails.  We have

            8          numerous such already.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.

           10               MR. NETTS:  So our feeling is three things: 

           11          One -- if I can now summarize.

           12               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.

           13               MR. NETTS:  The surplusing of this property is

           14          essential.  We need to be moving forward with the

           15          project, and the developer certainly needs to be

           16          moving forward in the project.

           17               Second, we ask that you not attach any

           18          conditions to the surplusing of the property.

           19               Thirdly, this is an issue best left to local

           20          government.

           21               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, sir.

           22               MR. NETTS:  If I may, I would like to thank you

           23          for your time, and I would like to introduce

           24          Chairman Jim Darby of the Flagler County Board of

           25          County Commissioners.


            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Absolutely.  Chairman, good

            2          seeing you.

            3               MR. DARBY:  Good to see you, Governor. 

            4          Honorable Governor Bush and members of the Cabinet,

            5          Honorable members of the Cabinet, I am Jim Darby.  I

            6          am Chairman of the Flagler County Board of County

            7          Commissioners since 1993. 

            8               In about 1997, I met with the developer's

            9          representatives to plead our cause for the Rails to

           10          Trails.  At that time, ITT had sold its -- or was in

           11          the process of selling its interests in Palm Coast

           12          to Palm Coast Holdings, so there were new players on

           13          deck.  And we were trying to make the application

           14          for the abandoned Lehigh Railroad, an eight-mile

           15          stretch, to bring it into public inventory for the

           16          Rails to Trails program.

           17               In that meeting that I personally had with the

           18          parent officers at the request of our Board of

           19          County Commissioners, we pled the case of the County

           20          to make the property available for the Rails to

           21          Trails acquisition.  They were promised the rails. 

           22          They were told they would get the ties and the

           23          salvage rights to all of those items, which did not

           24          materialize.  Later the Department took those

           25          instead, so the developer was left out on the limb


            1          for that.  They didn't contest it.  They went along

            2          with it.

            3               Now, I'm primarily an environmentalist at

            4          heart.  I'm a South Floridian at nature.  I moved to

            5          Palm Coast in 1978 from Miami, and my heart is with

            6          the environment of Florida and its pristine nature,

            7          so rarely do you see me standing arm in arm with a

            8          developer to plead their case.  In this event, this

            9          developer really needs the support of Floridians and

           10          the State in terms of what the transgressions have

           11          been upon the developer, which you have already

           12          touched upon.  I won't dwell on that.  I'll hasten

           13          my comments.

           14               This developer has done everything that has

           15          been asked of it for the Town Center development to

           16          help us with the Rails to Trails program.  They've

           17          been very proactive with it.  And so the few

           18          comments that I have that I would like to leave with

           19          you is that the grant application for Flagler County

           20          at the time the language was written was rushed,

           21          because we had Palm Coast Holdings now acquiring the

           22          property, and we had to get the grant application

           23          in.  So some of the language apparently didn't cover

           24          what your map showed as a roadway, and now we're

           25          asking for that exchange for the surplus land, the


            1          action asked of you today to reduce the original 5.X

            2          acres, whatever that was, to the 1-point acres

            3          today, to surplus it and let them get on with the

            4          road building without additional conditions.

            5               This is a unanimous vote of the Flagler County

            6          Board of County Commissioners.  This is a unanimous

            7          vote of the City Commission of Palm Coast.  This

            8          represents the unanimous vote of all of the members

            9          of the volunteer Rails to Trails Committee for

           10          Flagler County.

           11               The question I have is, why, if to fix the

           12          original concept, which was hurried -- it was a

           13          concept.  There was no permanency in place at that

           14          time.  The developer didn't know what they were

           15          going to do.  Then why is this connection, or this

           16          correction, I'm sorry, why is this correction being

           17          subjected to other conditions that traditionally are

           18          the responsibility of the local government, and that

           19          when the time comes, the local government will make

           20          the appropriate decision.  We are no less interested

           21          in safety than the Department that's contesting the

           22          right of local government to make this decision and

           23          making that decision for us at this point in time.

           24               You know, we came through the '98 fires, and

           25          Flagler County was burning.  We were the county that


            1          evacuated in this state.  We are no less sensitive

            2          to safety issues, and probably more so because of

            3          the experience that we've had in the past. 

            4               We ask your indulgence and understanding that

            5          Flagler County government has the expertise and the

            6          safety issue at heart to make these decisions, and

            7          that you allow us to do so.

            8               CFO GALLAGHER:  A quick question, if I can.

            9               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes, Treasurer.

           10               CFO GALLAGHER:  Do you foresee in the future

           11          whether your Commission would want -- I mean,

           12          depending on the traffic, and let's say it goes to

           13          what extent we all believe is going to happen as far

           14          as the development of the Town Center, and obviously

           15          we see the kind of growth that's happening in the

           16          city -- an overpass there anytime down the road, or

           17          do you foresee a --

           18               MR. DARBY:  An over -- I'm sorry, sir.  An

           19          overpass down the road? 

           20               CFO GALLAGHER:  Do you foresee that there

           21          might need to be one, or do you think that it could

           22          always be handled with some grade level?

           23               MR. DARBY:  We have not -- our engineers and

           24          our safety aspects have not been fully considered at

           25          this point, because we don't know what those growth


            1          parameters are.  As you've heard, this is a two-lane

            2          road with a 25-mile-per-hour speed limit.  It may

            3          never become more than that.  We have not made that

            4          determination.  But I can assure you, sir, that in

            5          the interest of public interest and welfare, when

            6          the time comes to make that decision, we're going to

            7          make the right decision on behalf of the safety of

            8          the public.

            9               We're probably on deck in the local area, being

           10          in the field and knowing more about that region than

           11          anybody else would outside of the area.  And we're

           12          just asking -- like with the original grant

           13          application that had to be hurried, we only knew of

           14          the concept.  We didn't know what the finality was

           15          going to be.  We don't have those details today, nor

           16          does anybody else.  We can assume that that road is

           17          going to become a major artery someday, but the

           18          rights-of-way and the other impacts on surrounding

           19          roads with the increase of Old Kings Road and Belle

           20          Terre, that may not be the state of affairs.

           21               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I understand that

           22          although the statute doesn't require an overpass,

           23          what it does, it says to the extent feasible and

           24          practical.  And so that's sort of were we're caught

           25          when we -- we're trying to look out for the right


            1          thing happening at the right time, and I think

            2          that's where you're coming from too.  How do we know

            3          that that will -- when you're gone and I'm gone, how

            4          do we know that down the road that's going to

            5          happen? 

            6               MR. DARBY:  Well, as we have trust in you and

            7          the Cabinet and the state government to run the

            8          affairs of the State of Florida, we would hope that

            9          you would have trust in the local officials to do

           10          the same.

           11               GOVERNOR BUSH:  So we'll never see you write a

           12          critical letter of anything we do up here.

           13               MR. DARBY:  I've been in public service for 15

           14          consecutive years, and you've not seen one yet.

           15               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.

           16               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Governor, if I could,

           17          you know, there's a DOT springboard here of the

           18          amount of traffic needed before some of these things

           19          take place that are recommended.  We know that

           20          recommendation is out there through DOT.  We also

           21          know that through ISTEA at the federal level, there

           22          can be some grant monies gone after to help build in

           23          the future an overpass if it's needed to accomplish

           24          what everybody wants to do for safety. 

           25               And I would like to see, since DEP has been a


            1          part of this process of the land exchange and so

            2          forth -- it's easier for a state agency like DEP to

            3          help the local government go after a grant when

            4          needed for this process.  If we decide to go ahead

            5          with this and let the local determination after we

            6          make our determination here today, that DEP stay in

            7          contact to the point to help them get their ISTEA

            8          grant down the road whenever the time comes and the

            9          traffic gets high enough and the four-lane or

           10          six-lane takes place, and that way we become

           11          partners at the state and the local level to get the

           12          same thing done.

           13               MR. DARBY:  Well, we appreciate -- if I may

           14          close, Governor.  We appreciate everything the State

           15          has done for us, and the Feds.  The Feds came in

           16          with their ISTEA monies and our grant applications

           17          for a pedestrian -- an eight-foot-wide concrete

           18          pedestrian pathway that runs from county line to

           19          county line along the east coast of Florida in

           20          Flagler County, and those were ISTEA monies that

           21          satisfied that. 

           22               And we were very proactive on the safety

           23          issue.  We built that pathway.  And certainly for

           24          the safety aspects, we're well aware personally of

           25          what goes on in Flagler County and what our needs


            1          are.  But we appreciate everything the DEP does.  We

            2          believe that they've been very helpful to us.  On

            3          this particular issue, though, we believe that it's

            4          our time at bat and that we have the expertise to

            5          make that decision.

            6               If I may, Governor, introduce --

            7               CFO GALLAGHER:  May I ask another question?

            8               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Sure.

            9               CFO GALLAGHER:  Is there a way we can sort of

           10          require it, but allow you to come and tell us why

           11          you would rather not do it when the traffic gets to

           12          that count?

           13               MR. DARBY:  There is no decision that we would

           14          rather not do it.  We may very well make the

           15          decision to do exactly the overpass that --

           16               CFO GALLAGHER:  So then if you did, everything

           17          is fine.  But if you choose not to, you would come

           18          back, and we would say, "Okay.  You've got a good

           19          reason not to.  Go ahead and don't."

           20               MR. DARBY:  Well, that's strictly up to you

           21          folks.

           22               CFO GALLAGHER:  I'm thinking that would sort of

           23          get us past where we are and let you all sort of

           24          have a decision.  If you've got a good reason you

           25          don't want to do it, come back, and then --


            1               MR. DARBY:  Our Board of County Commissioners

            2          has given our legal department and myself as

            3          Chairman the authority to do what we need to do in

            4          order to help the developer get on with the road. 

            5          If we need to put other things on the table for you

            6          and keep that door open for future considerations,

            7          we're perfectly willing to do that.

            8               CFO GALLAGHER:  See, that's something that

            9          would make us comfortable.  We're doing the right

           10          thing making sure there's going to be one, but if

           11          you all in local government believe that it isn't

           12          needed, you can come back and show us it's not

           13          needed, and we don't do it.

           14               MR. DARBY:  If that is a stipulation or a

           15          condition that's conditioned upon the approval in

           16          order for this project to move forward, then our

           17          county will certainly consider that.

           18               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, for me, that would get us

           19          on out of here and moving on and let you all run

           20          your local government fine, and let us look at it if

           21          there's a good reason you have not to do it when you

           22          hit that traffic count.

           23               MR. DARBY:  Yes, sir.

           24               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Are you good to go with that?

           25               MR. DARBY:  Yes, sir.


            1               CFO GALLAGHER:  I would like to make that

            2          motion.

            3               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            4               GOVERNOR BUSH:  We've got another speaker. 

            5          We've got the developer here, I assume.

            6               MR. DARBY:  Charlie Faulkner is senior vice

            7          president of Landmark -- of Palm Coast Holdings,

            8          Inc., and I would like to introduce him.  He is the

            9          developer that we're essentially going to bat for.

           10               GOVERNOR BUSH:  If everything is good with the

           11          suggestion, we don't need to be talking too much,

           12          but if you've got concerns, please let us know.

           13               MR. FAULKNER:  Okay.  Well, first of all, thank

           14          you for listening to it.  I've told the story so

           15          many times, I can do a two-minute version or a

           16          two-hour version.

           17               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Try two minutes.

           18               CFO GALLAGHER:  Two minutes will --

           19               MR. FAULKNER:  I sort of sensed the two-minute

           20          version might be appropriate.

           21               I'm just going to distill it down.  I think

           22          you've been briefed adequately as far as the

           23          history, the evolution and the genesis of this

           24          thing.  I've been working on this for the last year

           25          just to try to get here in front of you folks.


            1               The local government, from my conversations,

            2          uniformly agrees.  They don't want to be dictated

            3          what the solution is and the design of this

            4          intersection of the trail and the road.  None of it

            5          is even built today.  It was predicated on a traffic

            6          model done in the process of a DRI.  Three years ago

            7          probably this model was done.  Since that time,

            8          there are improvements over the existing I-95.  I-95

            9          has a big barrier in the city like the Berlin Wall. 

           10          There's an overpass that's going to be under

           11          construction this year.  There's probably -- we're

           12          donating more land for another overpass just north

           13          of this one.  Old Kings Road is going to be

           14          four-laned.  The CRA is going to have a parallel

           15          connector with State Road 100.  In essence, the

           16          traffic patterns are likely to change from what this

           17          model predicted.

           18               I would ask you, and I think this is local

           19          government's position, don't dictate what the design

           20          ought to be today for something that won't be built

           21          for 10 or 15 years.  The whole world may change by

           22          then.  Allow local government to do its job.  And I

           23          think that's the right thing for you to do.

           24               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Are you comfortable with

           25          Treasurer Gallagher's amended --


            1               MR. FAULKNER:  If I understand it right, the

            2          motion would be to require an overpass, and then at

            3          the time, have local government come back and

            4          explain why you don't need one.

            5               CFO GALLAGHER:  That's correct.

            6               MR. FAULKNER:  I don't think that's -- I think

            7          that's an undue burden.  I think you need to trust

            8          local government.  I would be happy and won't

            9          complain on whatever decision you gentlemen make.  I

           10          think the correct thing to do is not to assume an

           11          overpass is the best solution, because I'm not

           12          convinced it is. 

           13               There's a northwest -- I mean, I've got all

           14          kinds of graphics.  There's a north-south bike path

           15          that will intersect right here at this intersection,

           16          and there's all kinds of opportunities for

           17          trailheads and amenities for the trails.  If you

           18          require an overpass, it's the Berlin Wall.  The

           19          constraints for an overpass haven't even been talked

           20          about.

           21               CFO GALLAGHER:  But if in fact that's where you

           22          end up 10 years from now, you come in and say, "This

           23          is what we designed in the city.  We would like to

           24          do this instead," we're going to probably say,

           25          "Fine," or whoever follows us.  It isn't going to be


            1          us.  And you have a good reason for doing it.

            2          However, if the traffic count on that road goes up

            3          to where all of us know you've got to have an

            4          overpass, then we want to make sure it gets done.

            5               MR. FAULKNER:  I understand.

            6               CFO GALLAGHER:  That's the problem on that. 

            7          And if it doesn't get there, then obviously it's not

            8          an issue for the local government or for us.  So if

            9          all of your other roads work and you end up with a

           10          25-mile-an-hour, two-lane road with nobody driving

           11          on it, then obviously nobody wants a four-lane or

           12          six-lane overpass.

           13               MR. FAULKNER:  Right.  Just two brief points. 

           14          One is the character of the project.  This is --

           15          this project was weighted heavy for nonresidential

           16          use.  It's literally in the center of 45,000

           17          approved, platted quarter-acre lots.  We don't need

           18          any more quarter-acre lots in Palm Coast. 

           19               CFO GALLAGHER:  I'll bet.

           20               MR. FAULKNER:  There's a deficiency of

           21          nonresidential uses.  This fills that gap.  There's

           22          2,500 units proposed here.  None of those units are

           23          single-family stand-alone houses.  There are any

           24          variety of townhouses, apartments, condominiums,

           25          many mixed in with residential uses in the downtown


            1          area.  This had in the DRI negligible impact on

            2          schools.  You're not having a lot of little kids in

            3          this project.

            4               The second point is the physical constraints of

            5          an overpass.  The property in this area that is

            6          owned by Greenways and Trails is in the vicinity of

            7          60 feet wide.  On the north there's a canal with an

            8          armored bank at greater than a 45-degree slope. 

            9          That's what the land abuts, is that canal.  You

           10          can't go further north.  To the south you've got an

           11          FPL easement with half-a-million-volt transmission

           12          lines there today, to be increased in the future. 

           13          You can't go further south either.  It is a heavily

           14          constrained area for an overpass.  None of that has

           15          ever been really looked at by engineers other than

           16          my engineers for the past year.

           17               CFO GALLAGHER:  Which is all the reasons why

           18          local government may well come back and say this

           19          overpass is not needed.

           20               MR. FAULKNER:  You're right.

           21               CFO GALLAGHER:  And whoever is here will say,

           22          "Fine."

           23               MR. FAULKNER:  And I think your proposal is a

           24          good probably solution to get us all out of here

           25          today. 


            1               CFO GALLAGHER:  That's what we're -- that's the

            2          goal.  That is my goal, believe me. 

            3               MR. FAULKNER:  Thank you.

            4               CFO GALLAGHER:  So I would just clarify that as

            5          a condition of the sale of the 1.8 acres, the County

            6          agrees to put an overpass at the crossing at the

            7          time of a four-lane highway, or return to the

            8          Governor and Cabinet to request a waiver of that

            9          condition.

           10               COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.

           11               GOVERNOR BUSH:  You mean at least four lanes;

           12          right?

           13               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Four or more?

           14               CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, obviously four or more.

           15               GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second. 

           16          Any other discussion?  All in favor say aye.

           17               (Simultaneous affirmative responses.)

           18               GOVERNOR BUSH:  All opposed?  The motion as

           19          amended is carried.

           20               Thank you all for coming.

           21               MS. CASTILLE:  That concludes our --

           22               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Chairman, it's good seeing you.

           23               MR. DARBY:  Good seeing you too.  Thank you.

           24               GOVERNOR BUSH:  You bet.

           25               MS. CASTILLE:  Thank you, Governor and members


            1          of the Cabinet.  That concludes our agenda items. 

            2          You have one more agency.

            3               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes.  Thank you, Colleen.  Your

            4          old Chief Cabinet Aide --

            5               MS. CASTILLE:  Just trying to keep everything

            6          on track.





















            1               GOVERNOR BUSH:  State Board of Administration.

            2               MR. STIPANOVICH:  Agenda item 1, the minutes,

            3          Governor.

            4               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.

            5               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            6               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

            7          objection, item 1 passes.

            8               MR. STIPANOVICH:  Agenda item number 2 is a

            9          request for approval of fiscal sufficiency of an

           10          amount not exceeding $200 million State of Florida,

           11          Full Faith and Credit, State Board of Education

           12          public education capital outlay bonds.

           13               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 2.

           14               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           15               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           16          objection, the item passes.

           17               MR. STIPANOVICH:  Item 3 is a request for

           18          approval of the fiscal determination of a amount not

           19          exceeding 75 million of Florida Housing Finance

           20          Corporation homeowner mortgage revenue bonds.

           21               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.

           22               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

           23               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

           24          objection, the item passes.

           25               MR. STIPANOVICH:  And, Governor and members,


            1          the last item on the agenda is just simply an annual

            2          report on corporate governance showing the

            3          activities for fiscal year '02-03, information only.

            4               CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to receive the report.

            5               ATTORNEY GENERAL CRIST:  Second.

            6               GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without

            7          objection, the report is received.  Thank you,

            8          Coleman.

            9               MR. STIPANOVICH:  Thank you, Governor, and

           10          thank you, members.

           11               (Proceedings concluded at 10:08 a.m.)

















            2                      CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER


            4      STATE OF FLORIDA)

            5      COUNTY OF LEON  )


            7               I, MARY ALLEN NEEL, do hereby certify that the

            8      foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time

            9      and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes

           10      were thereafter transcribed under my supervision; and

           11      that the foregoing pages numbered 1 through 53 are a

           12      true and correct transcription of my stenographic notes.

           13               I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,

           14      employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, or

           15      relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or

           16      financially interested in the action.

           17               DATED THIS 24th day of August, 2004.




           21                                 ___________________________
                                              MARY ALLEN NEEL, RPR
           22                                 2894-A Remington Green Lane
                                              Tallahassee, Florida  32308
           23                                 (850) 878-2221