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                                   T H E   C A B I N E T
                              S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
                               FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION
                              DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                               DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
                                     BOARD OF TRUSTEES
                              The above agencies came to be heard before
                   THE FLORIDA CABINET, The Honorable Governor Bush
                   presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The
                   Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Thursday, September
                   18, 2003, commencing at approximately 9:05 a.m.

                                        Reported by:
                                      MARY ALLEN NEEL
                              Registered Professional Reporter
                             ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                      100 SALEM COURT
                                 TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA  32301

                              Representing the Florida Cabinet:

                              JEB BUSH

                              CHARLES H. BRONSON
                              Commissioner of Agriculture

                              CHARLIE CRIST
                              Attorney General

                              TOM GALLAGHER
                              Chief Financial Officer
                                         *   *   *

                                         I N D E X

                   (Presented by Kevin McCarty)
                   ITEM                  ACTION                      PAGE
                   1                     Approved                       5
                   2                     Approved                       5
                   3                     Approved                       6
                   4                                                    6

                   (Presented by Rocky McPherson)
                   ITEM                 ACTION                       PAGE
                   1                    Approved                       23
                   2                    Approved                       24

                   (Presented by Fred Dickinson)
                   ITEM                  ACTION                      PAGE
                   1                     Approved                      29
                   2                     Approved                      30
                   3                     Approved                      30
                   4                     Approved                      34
                   5                     Approved                      42
                   6                     Approved                      43

                   (Presented by Daryl McLaughlin)
                   1                     Approved                      44
                   2                     Approved                      46
                   3                     Approved                      47
                   4                     Approved                      48

                   IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
                   (Presented by David Struhs)
                   ITEM                  ACTION                      PAGE
                   1                     Approved                      49
                   2                     Approved                      64
                   3                     Approved                      64
                   4                     Approved                      80
                   5                     Approved                      81
                   6                     Approved                      84
                   7                     Approved                      87
                   8                     Withdrawn                     94
                   9                     Approved                      95

                   CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER                             96


             1                     P R O C E E D I N G S
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Financial Services 
             3           Commission.  Kevin?
             4                MR. McCARTY:  Good morning, Governor.   
             5                CFO GALLAGHER:  I'll move the minutes from 
             6           August 12th.
             7                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
             8                GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a 
             9           second.  Without objection, Item 1 passes.
            10                Mr. Saxon, welcome.  
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Welcome. 
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Item 2. 
            13                MR. McCARTY:  Is the adoption of amendments 
            14           to Rules 3E-200.001, 3E-300.002, 3E-600.012 
            15           through 3E-600.015, and 3E-600.021, Florida 
            16           Administrative Code.  The amendments update 
            17           references to federal statutes and rules or 
            18           independent self-regulatory organizations.
            19                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on Item 2.
            20                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.  
            21                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            22           Without objection, the item passes.
            23                MR. McCARTY:  Next is the adoption of 
            24           amendments to Rule 3E-600.005.  The amendment 
            25           changes the references to Certified Financial 


             1           Planners and the initials CFP to denote special
             2           status as trademarks.
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.
             4                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.  
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             6           Without objection, the item passes.
             7                Item 4.
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  That's your update.
             9                MR. SAXON:  Good morning, Governor and 
            10           members of the Cabinet.  This is the first 
            11           opportunity I have had to be before you, and as 
            12           such, it's the first opportunity I've had to 
            13           publicly thank you for the appointment you've 
            14           made of me as the Director of the Office of 
            15           Financial Regulation.  I'm honored by your 
            16           support and the opportunity you've given me to 
            17           be of public service and working before the 
            18           Commission.  
            19                I understand and I recognize that this is a 
            20           tremendous opportunity for me as an individual.  
            21           I also recognize the importance of this to the 
            22           State of Florida as the regulator for our 
            23           financial services.  I look forward to working 
            24           with you and the Commission, and I'm certainly 
            25           here to serve you at any time as the needs that 


             1           you may have of our office.
             2                The Office of Financial Regulation is 
             3           dedicated to safeguarding the financial 
             4           interests of the public and serving those 
             5           financial services to the industries that we 
             6           serve.  Those entities within our purview 
             7           include banks, credit unions, nondepository 
             8           financial institutions, security brokers, money 
             9           transmitters, check cashers, and deferred 
            10           presenters.
            11                Currently we have 197 banks chartered in 
            12           the State of Florida.  We have 106 credit 
            13           unions.  We have 49 international banking 
            14           offices and 17 trust companies.  We have 50,000 
            15           nondepository financial institutions, those 
            16           being your mortgage brokers, your consumer 
            17           finance companies, and your retail installment 
            18           loan lenders.  We also have 200,000 licensed 
            19           stockbrokers in the State of Florida.  To put 
            20           that in perspective, that represents about 30 
            21           percent of all licensed stockbrokers in the 
            22           country.
            23                GOVERNOR BUSH:  In the country?
            24                MR. SAXON:  In the country, yes, sir.
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  Thirty 30 percent?


             1                MR. SAXON:  Thirty percent.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  That has nothing to do with 
             3           our retirement population.  Wow. 
             4                MR. SAXON:  We also have 5,800 licensed 
             5           dealers and investment advisors in the State of 
             6           Florida, and we also have 85 branch offices, 
             7           which are like satellite offices, if you will, 
             8           of the major wirehouses out of New York, 
             9           California, and the Midwest.  And we also have 
            10           28,000 check cashers, money transmitters, and 
            11           deferred presenters.
            12                I've gone back and looked at the history 
            13           of the office for some 10 years, and what I've 
            14           found is that since 1996, we have received 117 
            15           new applications for state-chartered 
            16           institutions in the State of Florida.  At the 
            17           same time, we've had 14 credit union conversions 
            18           submitted since 1996.  Those conversions have 
            19           resulted in 5.5 billion more assets to those 
            20           institutions chartered by our office.
            21                GOVERNOR BUSH:  When you say conversions, 
            22           Don, that's from federal to a state charter?  Is 
            23           that --
            24                MR. SAXON:  That's where they acquire other 
            25           institutions and consolidate.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.
             2                CFO GALLAGHER:  What you've had is, you've 
             3           had an advantage of being a state institution in 
             4           regards to what is considered for a credit union 
             5           its membership availability.  Am I right? 
             6                MR. SAXON:  Yes, sir.
             7                CFO GALLAGHER:  So they can -- it's easier 
             8           for a state-licensed credit union to attract 
             9           membership that's outside a specific group, 
            10           whereas the federals are very specific on -- you 
            11           have to be a member of the group. 
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Like the Navy or the --
            13                CFO GALLAGHER:  Right, or state employees, 
            14           or whatever it can be, work for a certain 
            15           company.
            16                MR. SAXON:  Since 1998, banks have grown 
            17           from 167 in the State of Florida to the 196.  
            18           While our credit unions were 115 in 1998 and we 
            19           only have 106 now, primarily because of the 
            20           conversions, as I had mentioned, their assets 
            21           have grown about threefold.  For '90 -- in 1998, 
            22           they had $5 billion in assets.  Today they have 
            23           $15 billion.  Our bank assets have gone since 
            24           1998 from 38 billion to $45 billion.  And if you 
            25           include our international banking offices, the 


             1           total assets that we have under responsibility
             2           is $55 billion.
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  That's with a B; right?
             4                MR. SAXON:  That's with a B.  I think 
             5           that's a thousand million.
             6                CFO GALLAGHER:  Thousand million.
             7                MR. SAXON:  The history of growth in 
             8           securities and finance has also been 
             9           significant.  In 1998, we had 156,000 licensed 
            10           stockbrokers in the country.  As I mentioned 
            11           before, we now have over 200,000.  Our dealers 
            12           have gone from just over 3,000 in 1998, where 
            13           today we have almost 4,000 broker-dealers 
            14           operating.  Branches have gone from 4,000, as I 
            15           mentioned before, to 8,500 today.  And our 
            16           investment advisors, these are people who 
            17           provide guidance to people as to the value of 
            18           securities and whether they should buy or sell 
            19           securities.  Those offices have gone from 2,300 
            20           in '98 to 3,700 today.  Finance companies is no 
            21           different.  In 1998, we had 20,000 such 
            22           companies.  Today we have over 50,000.
            23                GOVERNOR BUSH:  50,000?
            24                MR. SAXON:  50,000, yes, sir.
            25                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Finance companies, those 


             1           would be --
             2                MR. SAXON:  Mortgage brokers, consumer 
             3           finance, retail installment lending. 
             4                To put that in perspective, three years 
             5           ago, the normal processing of a mortgage broker 
             6           application ran about 300 a month.  Today we're 
             7           processing on average 1,800 a month. 
             8                Just a couple of initiatives of the 
             9           office.  And I should probably say first on the 
            10           national side, I think there should be a close 
            11           connection between financial consumers and state 
            12           capitols, that it is vital to the strength of 
            13           the nation's financials markets.  The ability of 
            14           states to regulate banking, credit unions, 
            15           finance companies, and securities allows this 
            16           Commission, allows state legislatures, it allows 
            17           local governments to meet the needs of local 
            18           economies and to respond to the concerns of 
            19           citizens.  But we can only achieve this by 
            20           preserving the integrity of the dual banking 
            21           system and allowing state regulators to enforce 
            22           security regulations as they deem appropriate.
            23                I only mention this because there have been 
            24           a number of initiatives at the federal level to 
            25           preempt some of the operations that we have as 


             1           banking regulators and state security
             2           regulators.
             3                I've had several meetings already with our 
             4           congressional leaders in Washington, D.C.  I'm 
             5           very thankful that they've been supportive.  In 
             6           fact, on two occasions already, they've 
             7           championed our cause and have gone to the 
             8           leadership of the Congress to delay, or at least 
             9           to hopefully make some changes in how regulation 
            10           will be done between states and the federal 
            11           government.
            12                CFO GALLAGHER:  Don, I think it's 
            13           interesting to note that with the tremendous 
            14           amount of consolidation that has taken place on 
            15           a national level in banking -- and it has 
            16           certainly affected Florida.  So many banks that 
            17           were Florida banks became national banks and are 
            18           part of a very few large, large national 
            19           institutions.  Even with that happening and 
            20           taking all their branches with them, we end up 
            21           having more banks now because of our dual system 
            22           and because of the opportunity for local 
            23           entrepreneurs to start their own banks.
            24                MR. SAXON:  Yes. 
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  And to let the federal 


             1           government take that away I think would really
             2           hurt our economy and hurt the ability for the 
             3           citizens of Florida to start small businesses in 
             4           the banking area.  So keep working them up 
             5           there.
             6                MR. SAXON:  Locally, just a few of the 
             7           things that we're doing.  Obviously, first of 
             8           all, we've been working diligently developing an 
             9           administrative staff, if you will.  And I want 
            10           to thank the Governor for your support during 
            11           the last legislative session in providing us 
            12           some additional positions to do that.  We now  
            13           have an inspector general.  We have a 
            14           legislative director.  We have just hired a 
            15           consumer advocate to help do some publications 
            16           and so forth for our office, and we have hired a 
            17           general counsel.  And again, I certainly 
            18           appreciate your support on that.
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  The consumer advocate is 
            20           for public relations, or is it for being able 
            21           to -- when people e-mail me with complaints, can 
            22           I --
            23                GENERAL CRIST:  Send them to you.
            24                GOVERNOR BUSH:  This issue, the broker 
            25           issue is one -- mortgage brokers and securities 


             1           brokers is one that I think -- I would love to
             2           get your views before the start of the next 
             3           legislative session.  If we have enough consumer 
             4           protection measures in our statutes to protect 
             5           people -- I mean, people get preyed upon in our 
             6           state because of the fact that -- the reason we 
             7           have all those brokers is, we have people who 
             8           save, and they retire.  And I've never gotten a 
             9           sense that we have the consumer protection tools 
            10           to protect people.  And maybe I'm wrong, but I 
            11           think it's worthy of a review, given the volume 
            12           of increase in both the transactions and the 
            13           number of brokers.
            14                MR. SAXON:  What we're doing, we're going 
            15           to develop a number of outreach programs.  One 
            16           of these will be for consumers.  One of the 
            17           first responsibilities of this new person, if 
            18           you will, is, we would like to develop a website 
            19           where people can go to to get information about 
            20           how to make the right choices, things that they 
            21           should ask their brokers, things they should 
            22           think about, you know, things that they can do 
            23           to protect themselves.  It's like no other 
            24           industry.  We can't be there all the time, and 
            25           there's always going to be somebody out there 


             1           trying to deprive somebody of their hard
             2           earnings and to take that money from them.
             3                We believe that if we can get more out 
             4           front, if you will, and educate people about the 
             5           dos and don'ts of the industry and how they can 
             6           protect themselves, that would be much more of a 
             7           way of doing good regulation in the State of 
             8           Florida.
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  How many brokers have lost 
            10           their license because of unethical activity or 
            11           illegal activity?
            12                MR. SAXON:  A lot of what we do is on the 
            13           front side in the way of licensing.  I can tell 
            14           you in the last year, we have denied 600 people 
            15           who were seeking to be licensed because of their 
            16           activities.  
            17                On the criminal side, we had -- since 
            18           January, since this office came in to being, 
            19           we've had 43 criminal indictments.  We have 
            20           issued 27 administrative complaints.  We've 
            21           gotten court-ordered restitution of over $100 
            22           million, and we've gotten voluntary restitution 
            23           of $650,000.
            24                The other outreach for us is going to be 
            25           with the industry itself.  We think it's 


             1           important that we have a dialogue with them.  We
             2           think they need to know who we are and what we 
             3           do, and perhaps most importantly, why we do it.  
             4           We believe that early detection is important, so 
             5           we can interface with them, meet with them, when 
             6           we do our exams, have them have more of an 
             7           appreciation of what we do and what we're going 
             8           to be looking for.  Those are the areas we'll 
             9           concentrate to make sure that they comply with 
            10           the appropriate rules and regulations in the 
            11           State of Florida. 
            12                We're also looking at disaster 
            13           preparedness.  We've already had feedback from 
            14           seven banks who have agreed to on a 24-hour 
            15           basis, in the event of a natural disaster or 
            16           some other type of disaster, that they will have 
            17           mobile ATMs available within those vicinities so 
            18           that people have access to cash that they might 
            19           need to make, you know, whatever corrections or 
            20           the -- whatever their situation may be with 
            21           that particular disaster.  And we're going to be 
            22           looking for other ways that the finance industry 
            23           can provide services in the time of need.
            24                One of our other initiatives is automated 
            25           licensing.  I can tell you that department-wide, 


             1           licenses have increased 32 percent in the last
             2           five years.  At the same time, our staff has 
             3           gone down by 16 percent.  The only way we can 
             4           meet the Administrative Procedures Act and make 
             5           sure we make the right decisions about who gets 
             6           licensed is through automation.  We already have 
             7           automation for all of our security activities.  
             8           A lot of our activities in the finance area are 
             9           automated, but we are still working on that, and 
            10           we simply will need to do more automation to 
            11           make sure that we can meet the needs of the 
            12           state.
            13                Going back to enforcement and some of the 
            14           actions we've taken, I will also tell you that 
            15           we've been working very closely with Attorney 
            16           General Crist's office.  Currently we have 18 
            17           cases that we're working collectively with the 
            18           Statewide Prosecutor, and we have a number of 
            19           cases that we're working directly with the 
            20           Attorney General's Office.
            21                Commissioner Bronson, we're also working 
            22           with his office.  We've received information 
            23           recently about some of the practices of 
            24           confrontation and threats being made against 
            25           people from collection agencies.  It's my 


             1           opinion that that code, 559, needs to have major
             2           reform in how that business is conducted, and so 
             3           we'll be looking to -- we've already met with 
             4           some of Commissioner Bronson's staff on this,  
             5           and we'll be moving forward with that with all 
             6           diligence.
             7                Finally, CFO Gallagher, obviously, because 
             8           of the connection with that Department, we've 
             9           been working very closely with them.  And I want 
            10           to publicly thank the CFO for their support with 
            11           the HR services, the Public Affairs Office, and 
            12           encouraging us to look at best practices in the 
            13           way we can share information between the 
            14           insurance side and the securities and banking 
            15           side about licensing, consumer services, and the 
            16           sharing of enforcement data.  
            17                I think you can see from this that there is 
            18           an interaction between all of our respective 
            19           agencies, with the Attorney General, the CFO, 
            20           and the Agriculture Commissioner's office, and 
            21           we'll certainly do everything we can to work 
            22           with you all on all these different issues.
            23                Legislation wise, we will being doing a 
            24           bill this year.  That bill primarily will be a 
            25           bill to allow us to do more automation and to do 


             1           better procedures in the way we do licensing
             2           with our people.
             3                As to the future, we will certainly 
             4           continue to carry out the initiatives that I've 
             5           laid out, and we'll look for other areas where 
             6           we think we need to do more. 
             7                Also, starting as of October 1, you'll 
             8           begin receiving a quarterly report from us.  It 
             9           will be laid out with each functional area, be 
            10           it banking, nondepository institutions and 
            11           securities.  I would encourage you, if you 
            12           could, to review it.  If you have any comments, 
            13           if there's anything that you feel like you would 
            14           like to see in those reports, let me know, and 
            15           I'll make sure that we take care of that.
            16                Finally, I want to tell you about what I 
            17           believe is a very big success for our office, 
            18           and I think it demonstrates what's good in 
            19           government and how it can be achieved. 
            20                Two years ago we were tasked through a bill 
            21           to develop a database to monitor the activities 
            22           of payday lenders, otherwise known as deferred 
            23           presentment.  That system had to be a 24/7 
            24           operation.  We were told we had to develop it 
            25           within eight months, and we were given no budget 


             1           to do it.  And I'm happy to say that we were
             2           able to develop the system at no cost to the 
             3           State, and we were able to actually get the 
             4           system up and running before the deadline.
             5                What the system does is, every time 
             6           somebody goes into a convenience store where 
             7           they have check cashing or deferred presentment 
             8           activities, the vendor has to go into that 
             9           system and make sure that person doesn't already 
            10           have an outstanding transaction.  And a payday 
            11           transaction is essentially where a person writes 
            12           a postdated check.  The collateral for that 
            13           check will be their pay when it comes in in the 
            14           next seven days, if you will.
            15                What we found is that many people were 
            16           going into one check cashing facility and doing 
            17           a deferred presentment transaction, going down 
            18           the street and doing another one, going down the 
            19           street and doing another one, to the point that 
            20           they were in a situation where financially they 
            21           would never be able to recover.  This system 
            22           requires the vendors to go and make sure they 
            23           don't have any outstanding transactions, and 
            24           then there's a 24-hour period where they have to 
            25           delay before they can do another transaction. 


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's good.
             2                MR. SAXON:  I can tell you that not only 
             3           did we come in ahead of schedule, it didn't cost 
             4           the State any money.  And going through the 
             5           normal procedures of outsourcing and doing an 
             6           RFP, we did find a vendor.  And as of today, 
             7           they have processed nearly 3 million 
             8           transactions, and the system has created a 
             9           surplus of $1.4 million in transaction fee 
            10           assessments to the state of Florida.  So we're 
            11           very pleased with that. 
            12                In closing, I would again like to thank 
            13           you for the opportunity of -- this Commission 
            14           for allowing me to serve as the Director for the 
            15           Office of Financial Regulation.  And I'll leave 
            16           you with a quote from Franklin Roosevelt on 
            17           public speaking.  He said, "Be sincere, be 
            18           direct, and be seated."  So if you don't have 
            19           any other questions, I'll be seated.
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any questions? 
            21                Thank you very much. 
            22                MR. SAXON:  Thank you.
            23                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Come back regularly. 
            24                I just said come back regularly.
            25                MR. SAXON:  Thank you.  I will.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  By the way, we may have a
             2           secret covert planned for you, Don.  It's to go 
             3           undercover behind the scenes of the St. Pete 
             4           Times, since you look so much like Steve 
             5           Bousquet.  He's right here.  Find out what they 
             6           do when they get together and report back to 
             7           us. 
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, who would want to go 
             9           undercover as Steve Bousquet?  I mean, I can 
            10           think of some things, but my goodness. 
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I see some press kit 
            12           activity.
            13                GENERAL CRIST:  Mr. Bousquet will be 
            14           regulating the financial institutions of the 
            15           Florida.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Department of Veterans'
             2           Affairs.  Rocky.
             3                MR. McPHERSON:  Good morning.
             4                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.
             5                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
             6                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             7           Without objection, Item 1 passes.
             8                Item 2.
             9                MR. McPHERSON:  Item 2 is our quarterly 
            10           report for the fourth quarter of fiscal year 
            11           2002-2003.  There are no significant issues.  
            12                I would like to make one comment.  In 
            13           January when I was born to this position, one of 
            14           the contentious issues was our progress on 
            15           census surveys in nursing homes.  At that time 
            16           we were averaging about 83 percent at our 
            17           facilities, and the goal, of course, is 90.  I 
            18           would like to report that on average basis, we 
            19           are now at 91 percent in the facilities.  I 
            20           still have two that are 1 percent below 90, 
            21           but we're working hard on them, and I have one 
            22           at 95.  So we have an average census in our 
            23           facilities, the four operating facilities, of 91 
            24           percent.  And it's a goal that we worked hard to 
            25           reach, and our administrators did a great job. 


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good.  Excellent. 
             2                Is there a motion on 2?
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on Item 2. 
             4                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second. 
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             6           Without objection, the item passes.
             7                MR. McPHERSON:  Item 3, sir, is our CARES 
             8           update.  I would like to just take a few minutes 
             9           to -- we recollect that last March, Dr. Headly, 
            10           who is the director of the Veterans' Network for 
            11           Florida, Division 8, made a presentation to the 
            12           Governor and the Cabinet regarding the CARES 
            13           planning process by which the VA will define 
            14           their building plans for the next 20 years.  In 
            15           the period since that presentation in March, all 
            16           of the CARES programs from the 21 networks 
            17           around the nation have been rolled into a thing 
            18           called the National CARES Plan, which was 
            19           released about a month ago.  
            20                There is a 15-member Commission that has 
            21           been appointed by the Secretary of the VA to 
            22           review that plan, and they have held two 
            23           hearings that are relevant to Florida, August 
            24           the 26th in Biloxi, and Orlando on the 10th of 
            25           September, followed by a visit to VA medical 


             1           centers by the Commission on the following day,
             2           Thursday, the 11th of the September.  And I'm 
             3           pleased to report that I was able to testify at 
             4           both of those hearings on behalf of Florida's 
             5           plan.  
             6                It is important to note that it brings 
             7           tremendous new resources in the plan to Florida, 
             8           a new hospital that we've all read about planned 
             9           for Orlando, two new bed towers in Gainesville 
            10           and Tampa, four new outpatient clinics at 
            11           various locations throughout the state, and 
            12           expansions of existing clinics in places of high 
            13           growth.  So all of those things at the hearing 
            14           were well presented, and in fact the Commission 
            15           has a great understanding of the need that's 
            16           forecast for Florida for future VA facilities.  
            17           We do not anticipate any significant problems 
            18           with it. 
            19                We have two concerns that I would like to 
            20           mention that we will be conveying to the CARES 
            21           Commission.  The first one is, their projections 
            22           to 2022 may be conservative.  In fact, the need 
            23           in Florida, if growth rates continue or if we 
            24           have high growth rates in an area that were not 
            25           planned for, may in fact be greater than what 


             1           the CARES Commission is planning for.  In view
             2           of that fact, we asked the Commission on behalf 
             3           of the Department and the State that they 
             4           conduct a regular annual review and a five-year 
             5           formal review to see how their plans are being 
             6           executed in light of what the actual movement in 
             7           our state happens to be.  And that has generally 
             8           been accepted by the Commission as a good 
             9           suggestion, and it will probably be in their 
            10           report.
            11                The other issue is, the seven western 
            12           counties of Florida are in Division 16, which is 
            13           over in the Jackson, Mississippi, area.  And 
            14           they support that due to distance from other 
            15           facilities.  The arrangement to enhance services 
            16           in that area in Pensacola, Eglin, and Tyndall, 
            17           is to increase DOD and VA sharing.  And while we 
            18           think that's a great idea, and at the Secretary 
            19           level and the national government, that concept 
            20           is supported, on the ground, it sometimes gets 
            21           harder, particularly when you realize that due 
            22           to the things that are happening in Florida, 
            23           such as all the new training ranges that have 
            24           come from Viequez and that are now being used, 
            25           more military coming into the Panhandle area, we 


             1           feel that there might be some stress on those
             2           facilities.  And in fact, that's going to 
             3           deserve significant attention and following, and 
             4           we will do that at the Department level with the 
             5           VA to ensure that the DOD participation in that 
             6           agreement in fact comes to fruition, or if it 
             7           doesn't, to look at alternative methods.
             8                And those are the main comments.  The plan 
             9           is on track.  The Commission will finish  -- 
            10           they're about halfway through their public 
            11           hearings.  They finish next month, go into about 
            12           a month's worth of analysis and review, and 
            13           write a report to the VA Secretary that's due to 
            14           him in December, and he intends to act on it by 
            15           January.
            16                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Rocky, any update on the 
            17           Lake City facility? 
            18                MR. McPHERSON:  Yes, sir.  The Lake -- when 
            19           the National CARES Plan came out, the issue of 
            20           the Lake City being combined with the 
            21           Gainesville area essentially has been resolved.  
            22           The 24 by 7 hospital level services will remain 
            23           intact at Lake City.  The only minor adjustment 
            24           that is forecast to be made is that surgical 
            25           inpatient services, which only number about 


             1           eight a month at Lake City, will be moved to
             2           Gainesville because of just getting a better -- 
             3           it's a health care issue more than a placement 
             4           issue.  The Lake City issue is relatively well 
             5           resolved.  It's not a contentious item in front 
             6           of the committee.  And as far as I know -- I 
             7           haven't talked to the mayor and the Chamber of 
             8           Commerce over there -- they're pleased with the 
             9           result.
            10                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Excellent.  Thank you.
            11                MR. McPHERSON:  Yes, sir.
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any questions or comments?
            13                Thank you.
            14                MR. McPHERSON:  Yes, sir.  Thank you.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Department of Highway
             2           Safety and Motor Vehicles.
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.
             4                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I'll second.
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             6           Without objection, the item passes.
             7                Item 2.
             8                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 2, Governor, is 
             9           submission of our 2002-2003 Annual Performance 
            10           Report.  This basically tells everything for a 
            11           performance report -- contract, I'm sorry, from 
            12           last year.  We had a decent year.  Our death 
            13           rates on regular death rates and alcohol-related 
            14           were down, less than expected.  We exceeded our 
            15           goals on seat belt performance.  
            16                But as you can see, there are a couple of 
            17           other areas we need to pay some attention to.  
            18           We've lost a number of troopers in the last 
            19           couple of years.  In the first year, or first 
            20           three years of them coming to law enforcement, 
            21           we're only retaining 78 percent, so we've got a 
            22           22 percent loss there that we're trying to 
            23           address, and we do that in our budget request. 
            24                Our trooper response times are up a little 
            25           bit, and we're investigating substantially more 


             1           crashes.  And our driver license lines are still
             2           too long, and we're working on that.
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a motion?
             4                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 2.
             5                GENERAL CRIST:  Second. 
             6                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Any 
             7           discussion?
             8                Without objection, the item passes.
             9                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 3 is our performance 
            10           report for the current year, and basically some 
            11           of the same performance standards established by 
            12           yourselves and the Legislature, and we're 
            13           proposing those.
            14                CFO GALLAGHER:  Item 3 is the performance 
            15           contract; right? 
            16                MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, sir.  I'm sorry.  
            17           Annual Performance Contract for the current 
            18           year.
            19                CFO GALLAGHER:  Okay.  I'll move it.
            20                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
            21                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            22           Without objection, the item passes.
            23                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 4 is the Department's 
            24           legislative budget request for 2004-2005.  We 
            25           are requesting approximately a 5 percent 


             1           increase over the current year, some new
             2           initiatives that only relate to personnel 
             3           regarding law enforcement and/or IT or 
             4           technology issues.  The majority of our request 
             5           comes from recurring program activity, such as 
             6           driver license, trooper overtime, vehicles, and 
             7           fuel.  
             8                And then we have a couple of budget issues 
             9           to help address areas where we feel some 
            10           deficiencies exist, and those were noted in our 
            11           performance report, trooper retention problems, 
            12           response times, and our driver license lines, 
            13           which we propose some DL technology enhancements 
            14           and an appointment system. 
            15                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Telephone 
            16           appointment system?
            17                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 4. 
            18                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
            19                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
            20                Governor, also, I would like to mention 
            21           that some of the problems that Highway Safety is 
            22           experiencing we're also experiencing in the 
            23           Department of Agriculture's highly trained law 
            24           enforcement and firefighter group.  We're 
            25           running into some of the same retention problems 


             1           that they're running into.  So it's something we
             2           may need to pretty much sit down and let some of 
             3           our staffs get together and figure out what we 
             4           can do to keep from losing some of these good 
             5           people that we have trained to do these specific 
             6           functions.
             7                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, if you look, you're 
             8           going to see that the Florida Department of Law 
             9           Enforcement is asking for increases because 
            10           they're losing people to the Feds.  As they get 
            11           their increases, we're losing all of our law 
            12           enforcement staff to FDLE.  And it's a continual 
            13           movement on.  
            14                I don't know where it stops or what we do 
            15           about it.  It's -- you know, we're all getting 
            16           this kind of turnover, and it's -- the Feds 
            17           expand and pay more than we do, and therefore, 
            18           FDLE pays more than the other law enforcement 
            19           areas do, and then as it filters down, you 
            20           know, people keep getting -- we train them, and 
            21           somebody ends up hiring them away.  And it's a 
            22           very expensive -- I'm not sure it doesn't cost 
            23           us more to keep training them and getting new 
            24           people than it does to pay them more -- 
            25                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Sure it does. 


             1                CFO GALLAGHER:  -- when we get them.  So
             2           we've got to look at the --
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Most definitely.
             4                CFO GALLAGHER:  I don't think we can look 
             5           each one of these individually.  I think we need 
             6           to sit down with all the law enforcement groups 
             7           that we have in the state and figure out some 
             8           kind of method by which we don't have the 
             9           continual turnover.  And I don't have an answer, 
            10           but I think we need to look at them all instead 
            11           of break them down and do -- here's Highway 
            12           Safety's problem, here's FDLE's problem, here's 
            13           Fraud's problem, here's Agriculture's problem.  
            14           You know, they all need to be looked at.
            15                MR. DICKINSON:  And, Governor, we would be 
            16           glad to participate in that.  Another issue is, 
            17           some of these locals, for instance, have gotten 
            18           pretty innovative, and they're including signing 
            19           bonuses to the law enforcement officers that 
            20           come over, which is something that we really 
            21           don't have and can't compete with.  And quite 
            22           frankly, their salary structure is not decidedly 
            23           different initially.  However, it increases over 
            24           the next year to five years substantially, and 
            25           that's really what these law enforcement 


             1           officers are looking at, is the future.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  You have a compression 
             3           issue. 
             4                MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, sir, we do have a --
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's not necessarily a 
             6           beginning pay issue.  It's more advancement 
             7           going forward.
             8                Any other discussion?  I'm abstaining from 
             9           voting on this item in order to make my own 
            10           budget recommendation.  All in favor of Item 4 
            11           say aye.  
            12                CFO GALLAGHER:  Aye.
            13                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Aye.
            14                GENERAL CRIST:  Aye.
            15                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All opposed?  The motion 
            16           passes.
            17                CFO GALLAGHER:  Let me just mention, Fred, 
            18           before you go Item 6. 
            19                MR. DICKINSON:  Yes, sir. 
            20                CFO GALLAGHER:  I just wanted to 
            21           congratulate you and your employees on the 
            22           awards that you got at the Administrators -- 
            23           Motor Vehicle Administrators conference.  Three 
            24           of your people got awards, and maybe you want to 
            25           brag about them.  You're one of them, of course, 


             1           so you can't brag too much, but --
             2                MR. DICKINSON:  Well, Lieutenant Colonel 
             3           Billy Dickson, who has been with the Department 
             4           for about 40 years, was given the national award 
             5           for the most revered public servant, and that 
             6           was refreshing.  Billy is going to come back and 
             7           help us from time to time, but when he -- he 
             8           really left the patrol a couple of years ago and 
             9           came over under our office and has been working 
            10           hard nationally with identification and driver 
            11           license -- uniform driver license issues, and 
            12           has become quite well known for it.  So we were 
            13           real pleased with that.
            14                And the other two people, Pete Stoumbelis 
            15           and Diane Wood, were complimented on the DAVID 
            16           system that we implemented.  And quite frankly, 
            17           without FDLE making some comments that they did 
            18           in the little request, we probably wouldn't have 
            19           gotten it.  But the DAVID system, Governor and 
            20           Cabinet, is something that can immediately 
            21           electronically transfer all the data that we 
            22           have in our file, including the photograph, to 
            23           other law enforcement agencies for comparison.  
            24           It's one of the only systems like that in the 
            25           nation, and I think it's picking up real steam.  


             1           The local law enforcement loves it.  They have
             2           come to me in droves and said, "This is the 
             3           greatest thing we've seen since we've been in 
             4           law enforcement."  So it has been a real help. 
             5                And as you well know, we have changed our 
             6           driver licensing procedure to when you come in, 
             7           particularly for a duplicate, but in really all 
             8           instances, the last known photograph on file 
             9           pops up to our driver license examiner, and they 
            10           have to actively do something to get on with 
            11           it.  So there's a comparison that takes place, 
            12           and it has substantially cut down on fraud that 
            13           we have, primarily in the teenage ranks and the 
            14           young people that want to get a driver's license 
            15           that says over 21 that allows them in the bars. 
            16                But, of course, we're proud to see 
            17           everybody get recognized, but these people stood 
            18           up and said very clearly at the national 
            19           convention that it's a team effort, and 
            20           collectively with all the law enforcement agency 
            21           and the driver license agency -- agencies around 
            22           the nation.  We're pleased for the recognition, 
            23           but we've got a long way to go.
            24                Thank you.
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  Thank you.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.
             2                Item 5.
             3                MR. DICKINSON:  Item 5 is our --
             4                CFO GALLAGHER:  We're on 6. 
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  We just passed Item 4, the 
             6           budget.
             7                CFO GALLAGHER:  Oh, I'm sorry.  You're 
             8           right.
             9                MR. DICKINSON:  This is the Department's 
            10           2004 legislative package, and I know some of you 
            11           may have some comments on this.  This basically 
            12           is the same thing that we asked you for approval 
            13           on last year, and it sailed through the 
            14           Legislature, both sides, until we got to crunch 
            15           time, and it did not make it in the regular 
            16           session, and we did not push it at all in any of 
            17           the subsequent sessions.  We felt like you all, 
            18           or the Legislature had enough to do.  But a 
            19           number of things -- 
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  A keen observer of the 
            21           political scene.  
            22                MR. DICKINSON:  There are some items in 
            23           here, if I may, Governor.  We want to put the 
            24           lessee's name on the registration to assist law 
            25           enforcement when they stop a leased car to 


             1           figure out who's driving it and who owns it. 
             2           The lessor's name would be on the registration, 
             3           even though the owner would still be the -- I 
             4           mean the lessee's name, even though the owner 
             5           would still be the lessor.  It also prevents 
             6           wrecker operators and wrecker liens that's got 
             7           multiple registrations -- if a car rental 
             8           company comes up and a lien pops up on one of 
             9           their cars, they can literally shut down the 
            10           entire registration for the ownership of every 
            11           vehicle in their fleet.  So this will correct 
            12           that.  
            13                We want to establish a temporary license 
            14           plate system to minimize fraud, and that would 
            15           be a web-based program.  And I'll tell you, 
            16           there will be some car dealers that probably are 
            17           going to squawk and say, "We can't do that."  We 
            18           will accommodate those that cannot -- that don't 
            19           have a computer.  We're talking about a --
            20                CFO GALLAGHER:  A car dealer that doesn't 
            21           have a computer? 
            22                MR. DICKINSON:  -- real easy web-based 
            23           application.  But we've heard from a couple of 
            24           them --
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  I want to see a car dealer 


             1           that doesn't have a computer. 
             2                MR. DICKINSON:  Well, I think primarily 
             3           it's the ones that really don't want to comply 
             4           with it, but we're going to seek 100 percent 
             5           compliance.  This also will help law 
             6           enforcement.
             7                We want to clarify the intent of the 
             8           Florida law with regard to the full face 
             9           photograph requirements that we were involved in 
            10           a lawsuit earlier this year we were successful 
            11           in.  And I would like to take this opportunity 
            12           to thank Attorney General Crist and his staff.  
            13           They handled the lawsuit for us, an outstanding 
            14           job, and we won, which is important.  But quite 
            15           frankly, it was a fairly fundamental issue, in 
            16           my mind, and we're glad the court saw it the 
            17           same way.  But thank you, General, for the  
            18           assistance of your staff.
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  It became urban legend, 
            20           you know, that we didn't -- that we weren't 
            21           giving out licenses for people that had their 
            22           face covered.  Thank you, General, for winning 
            23           the case.
            24                MR. DICKINSON:  We got a lot of letters on 
            25           it too, didn't we, Governor? 


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes, we did.
             2                MR. DICKINSON:  In support.
             3                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Governor, there is 
             4           one issue I would like to mention, and that is 
             5           -- and I know they're working on this, but the 
             6           commercial driver's exemption on the 
             7           certification.  
             8                Some of our law enforcement -- and 
             9           especially I think DOT has done a little of 
            10           this, and we're trying to work out these issues.  
            11           But some of our farmers who don't have to get a 
            12           CDL license because they're moving equipment 
            13           from one farm to another within a certain 
            14           radius, which is state law, have been stopped.  
            15           As a matter of fact, some of them have been 
            16           stopped and their equipment has been parked for 
            17           hours while they're trying to straighten out 
            18           whether they need a CDL or not.  
            19                So I'm hoping that we can finally get 
            20           through the system between DOT and back to 
            21           Highway Patrol and others what the law really 
            22           says, because some of these poor people are 
            23           having to kill a whole day while -- and being 
            24           threatened that they're going to be charged if 
            25           they move that equipment before they get a CDL 


             1           license, which --
             2                CFO GALLAGHER:  What's a CDL?
             3                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  It's a commercial 
             4           driver's license.  And it's because of the 
             5           trailer size and so forth.  Well, some of those 
             6           are exempt under the farming provisions of the 
             7           state law, and I think we need to get that 
             8           straight.  We've got people really upset over 
             9           that.  My office gets called quite regularly on 
            10           that.
            11                MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, what the 
            12           Commissioner is referring to is a federal law 
            13           that requires everybody in a vehicle that's 
            14           toting anything that weighs more than 26,001 
            15           pounds or transports public people, public 
            16           transport, or hazardous materials, are required 
            17           to have a commercial driver's license. 
            18                There is an exemption for farmers that are 
            19           either hauling produce to and from their farm up 
            20           to 150 miles, and/or equipment.  So we will work 
            21           with other law enforcement and make sure they're 
            22           aware of --
            23                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I think 
            24           clarification to those units would be, you know, 
            25           very well appreciated by those, because I hear 


             1           from Farm Bureau and all the organizations about
             2           their people being stopped.  And I think we need 
             3           to get it clarified that they don't have to have 
             4           a CDL.  
             5                MR. DICKINSON:  Governor, I had to move a 
             6           tractor last night, for instance.  A tire blew, 
             7           and I got to roll that tractor a lovely 15 miles 
             8           an hour down Highway 27 for about 12 miles.
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I'll bet you were a 
            10           popular guy, waiving as everybody was going by.
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Did you cover your face?
            12                GENERAL CRIST:  Didn't wear a shroud?
            13                MR. DICKINSON:  Didn't wear a shroud.
            14                Those are the high spots of our 
            15           legislative package.  As I said, it's basically 
            16           the same package you approved last year. 
            17                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a motion?
            18                CFO GALLAGHER:  Move 5. 
            19                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            21           Without objection, the item passes.
            22                Item 6.  Back to --
            23                MR. DICKINSON:  Now the item we've all 
            24           waited for, as usual.
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  There's some new license 


             1           plates.  All right.  A group of them.
             2                MR. DICKINSON:  We have four license 
             3           plates, Nova University, Stop Child Abuse, Stop 
             4           Heart Disease, and the U.S. Paratroopers.  This 
             5           raises our total to 81.  Seven still to come for 
             6           this current year.
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Looks good.
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 6.
             9                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.  
            10                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            11           Without objection, the item passes.
            12                MR. DICKINSON:  Thank you, Governor.
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, Fred.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Florida Department of Law
             2           Enforcement.
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes. 
             4                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.       
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             6           Without objection, the item passes.
             7                Item 2.  
             8                MR. McLAUGHLIN:  Thank you, Governor.  Item 
             9           2 is our Annual Performance Report for the last 
            10           fiscal year.  If I may, a couple of comments.  
            11           We are proud to report that we achieved 95 
            12           percent in 37 of the 45 measures that we're held 
            13           accountable for.  Those measures that we did not 
            14           achieve, we believe that if we look at those 
            15           closely, we'll see that they are issues that 
            16           were out of our control, things that we were 
            17           supposed to do that the numbers just didn't 
            18           appear.  We're pleased with that.
            19                We processed 76,367 records or packets of 
            20           evidence in our crime laboratory.  That's the 
            21           most in our history.  For the last three years, 
            22           we've not had any additions in personnel to the 
            23           laboratory system, so our folks are doing a 
            24           tremendous job there.  We reduced our turnaround 
            25           time by 35 percent in seven of the nine 


             1           disciplines.  We're also pleased with that.
             2                And, Governor and Cabinet, 87 percent of 
             3           all fingerprint cards are coming to us now 
             4           electronically from our booking agencies across 
             5           the state.  Now, that is a real significant 
             6           public safety issue.  I'll remind that you 
             7           within three minutes now, law enforcement is 
             8           getting a response from FDLE on these criminal 
             9           fingerprint cards that are submitted to us as to 
            10           who they're dealing with, and that's a very 
            11           significant issue for local agencies, and we're 
            12           pleased to have achieved that this last year. 
            13                We worked with other agencies on 3,300 
            14           missing children cases.  
            15                We have 51,000 customers on our FCIC system 
            16           now.  We handled over 115 million transactions 
            17           per month last year on that system.  It operates 
            18           24 hours a day, seven days a week, and it cannot 
            19           go down, because that's the life blood of law 
            20           enforcement across the state.  
            21                And we were also able to keep $34 million 
            22           worth of fraudulent claims from being paid out 
            23           to folks who did not deserve it out of our 
            24           public assistance fraud area.  And that's 
            25           another area that we're very pleased with.  


             1                And for the first time in our history, we
             2           processed and returned to the public 2.1 million 
             3           criminal history record requests.  That's 
             4           400,000 more than we did the previous year.  So 
             5           there's a significant interest in that, and we 
             6           have a tremendous responsibility to the public. 
             7                And, of course, we celebrated once again 
             8           the lowest crime rate in our history.  That 
             9           takes good leaders, good policy, and outstanding 
            10           local law enforcement, and we're fortunate to 
            11           have that.
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any questions?  Is there a 
            13           motion?
            14                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion to approve.
            15                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.  
            16                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            17           Without objection, the item passes.
            18                MR. McLAUGHLIN:  Governor and members, the 
            19           next item is our Annual Performance Contract.  
            20           We're submitting this after consultation with 
            21           Sheriff Guy Tunnell, who is the incoming 
            22           Commissioner beginning on October the 1st.  He 
            23           and I have talked extensively over this 
            24           contract.  He understands where it comes from.  
            25           These have been measures that have been approved 


             1           by the House and the Senate and the Office of
             2           Planning and Budget in the Governor's Office, 
             3           and so this will govern the agency for the 
             4           coming year.
             5                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.
             6                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second. 
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             8           Without objection, the item passes.
             9                MR. McLAUGHLIN:  The final item, Item 4, is 
            10           our legislative budget request for 2004-2005.  
            11           Governor and members, it represents a 3.5 
            12           percent overall increase in our budget.  We have 
            13           a $278 million budget.  We're asking for about a 
            14           $9.8 million increase.  These issues have also 
            15           been discussed at length with incoming 
            16           Commissioner Guy Tunnell, and he concurs with 
            17           each of these items.  It is a strong 
            18           continuation budget, and we would request your 
            19           approval.
            20                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 4.
            21                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.  
            22                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any discussion?  There's a 
            23           motion and a second.  I'm abstaining from voting 
            24           on this item in order to make my own budget 
            25           recommendations.  Any discussion?


             1                All in favor say aye.
             2                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Aye.
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  Aye.
             4                GENERAL CRIST:  Aye.
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All opposed?  The motion 
             6           passes.
             7                Thank you, Daryl.  Daryl, I want to thAnk 
             8           you for -- you and your team for the great 
             9           Missing Children's Day Memorial.  It was very 
            10           moving and first rate in every way.
            11                MR. McLAUGHLIN:  Thank you, sir.  We 
            12           appreciate that.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Board of Trustees.
             2                MR. STRUHS:  Good morning.  I would like 
             3           to --
             4                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a motion on the 
             5           minutes?
             6                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on one, on 
             7           the minutes.
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.  
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            10           Without objection, the item passes.
            11                MR. STRUHS:  Item 2 is your acceptance of 
            12           the Sixth Annual Status Report of the Florida 
            13           Keys National Marine Sanctuary.  As you know, 
            14           this is something you do every year.  Last year 
            15           was the fifth annual report, and we did a fairly 
            16           major presentation.  
            17                This year we're going to keep it fairly 
            18           brief, but we are fortunate to have Ann 
            19           McCarthy, who is Florida's new manager of the 
            20           Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, here 
            21           with us.  She came up from the Keys.  Billy 
            22           Causey, who is well known to all of you, he's 
            23           the federal partner.  He's NOAA's superintendent 
            24           for the sanctuary.  And our own Katherine 
            25           Andrews, who is the director of our Coastal and 


             1           Aquatic Programs.  They will very briefly walk
             2           you through some of the highlights of the report 
             3           that we're going to ask for you to approve.
             4                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Let's do it.  Good 
             5           morning.
             6                MS. McCARTHY:  Good morning.  How are you 
             7           today?
             8                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good.
             9                MS. McCARTHY:  Good.  I'm just going to 
            10           give you a few of the highlights that I've been 
            11           privy to being involved with over the last year. 
            12                First of all the Tortugas Ecological 
            13           Reserve, I'm really happy to say initial 
            14           indications are showing an increase in overall 
            15           fish populations out there, as well as more the 
            16           general acceptance and embracing of the Tortugas 
            17           Ecological Reserve.  We're really proud of what 
            18           we've done out there for the State of Florida, 
            19           and I think it's going really well.  
            20                Again, the Western Sambos Ecological 
            21           Reserve, a very similar habitat, closer to 
            22           shore.  I don't mean similar habitat.  What I 
            23           mean is similar zoning.  It's an ecological 
            24           reserve, and again we've seen an increase in the 
            25           percentage of overall commercially exploited 


             1           fish, as well as the legal size lobster and
             2           overall size of lobster have increased since 
             3           that reserve has been in effect.  So we're 
             4           seeing some positive changes there.
             5                We've done a lot of work with volunteers, 
             6           as we continue to do every year.  In calendar 
             7           year 2002, I would like to say that we had over 
             8           12,400 volunteer hours recorded, which has saved 
             9           the state and federal government over $200,000 
            10           in labor hours dedicated to resource protection 
            11           of the Florida Keys.  A new program specifically 
            12           called Reef Medics has been designed to help our 
            13           staff address our large volume of vessel 
            14           groundings that we get in the Florida Keys every 
            15           year.  Those volunteers help us go out and look 
            16           at the sites and do some minor repairs that have 
            17           affected the coral reefs over the years.  So 
            18           we're really happy that that has been 
            19           implemented and going well. 
            20                The delegated authority to Captain Andrews, 
            21           the Board delegated authority to Ms. Andrews to 
            22           be -- allow her to actually use Ecosystem 
            23           Management and Restoration Trust Fund money to 
            24           address some issues that we have that are 
            25           oftentimes in sort of an emergency situation. 


             1           For instance, over the past year we were able to
             2           address a derelict shrimping vessel that had 
             3           sunk out in the Tortugas and was sitting on a 
             4           reef, and we were able to go out there and 
             5           actually remove that vessel, the pressure off of 
             6           the reef.  And we've been able to restore 
             7           several orphan grounding sites.  It has given us 
             8           a mechanism to be able to go out and respond a 
             9           lot more quickly, so we thank you for that 
            10           delegated authority again.
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Did that big old boat that 
            12           was supposed to go down near Key Largo, did that 
            13           ever get turned -- 
            14                MS. McCARTHY:  Speigel Grove?
            15                GOVERNOR BUSH:  -- right-side-up, or 
            16           whatever it was?
            17                MS. McCARTHY:  It's on its side now, yes.  
            18           Yes.  We got a lot of attention on that. 
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I mean, it hasn't been -- 
            20           where it landed, where it sunk, it's still in 
            21           the same place?  There's no way to -- that 
            22           wasn't the idea, was it?
            23                MS. McCARTHY:  The idea was actually to 
            24           have it sitting upright.  
            25                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Upright.  And that --


             1                MS. McCARTHY:  And it flipped over and was
             2           sitting upside-down in an inverted position.  
             3           The contracts -- we had contractors come out and 
             4           flip it where it's sitting on its side now.  
             5           It's not in the intended position that it was 
             6           initially supposed to be in.  There's still a 
             7           lot of divers coming in to dive that particular 
             8           vessel.
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  But that's a deep dive.  
            10           Instead of having --
            11                MS. McCARTHY:  It is a deep dive.  It's not 
            12           something you would want to --
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's too bad.
            14                MS. McCARTHY:  -- snorkel.  But, yes, the 
            15           artificial reef industry group really has 
            16           appreciated the State and the sanctuary for 
            17           allowing that vessel to be sunk.  Unfortunately, 
            18           it didn't happen exactly the way they intended, 
            19           but they did their best to fix that situation.
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  We're working on trying to 
            21           -- there are some derelict vessels that are in 
            22           the Miami River that are -- that's an 
            23           understatement.  Is that what you're saying?  
            24           These are ones that actually no one -- either 
            25           some government entity owns it or no one wants 


             1           to claim it, typically drug related.  We catch
             2           the bad guys, and we own the vessels.  And we're 
             3           trying to work with our federal partners to 
             4           clean them up.  So if you have any interest in 
             5           that -- there's a lot of demand for these 
             6           vessels, but if you're interested, we may have a 
             7           couple of them during this year.
             8                MS. McCARTHY:  Well, thank you, sir.  We 
             9           have a lot of derelict vessels in the Keys as 
            10           well, but --
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  These are good --
            12                MS. McCARTHY:  Good ones.
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good artificial reef.  I'm 
            14           not talking about the little boats that --
            15                MS. McCARTHY:  I know the state and the --
            16                GOVERNOR BUSH:  -- people live on down 
            17           there.  
            18                MS. McCARTHY:  Yes, yes.  I know the state 
            19           and the federal governments are both looking at 
            20           artificial reef policies, and it's something we 
            21           definitely need to look at and scrutinize over 
            22           time for sure.
            23                A couple more things I just want to mention 
            24           real quick is our law enforcement partners.  The 
            25           Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, which 


             1           does our main law enforcement in the Florida
             2           Keys National Marine Sanctuary, is now running 
             3           at full capacity with 17 sanctuary enforcement 
             4           officers.  They have done an outstanding job in 
             5           the Tortugas Ecological Reserve.  The number of 
             6           violations out there has decreased by 40 percent 
             7           in the second half of the fiscal year, so we're 
             8           really happy about that.
             9                And one last item, and I'll turn it over to 
            10           Mr. Causey.  Our damage assessment and 
            11           restoration program, again, I mentioned that we 
            12           have over 600 groundings reported this past 
            13           year, vessel groundings.  With ouR damage 
            14           assessment program, we've been able to decrease 
            15           our response time to those groundings, as well 
            16           as increase time that we're able to go out and 
            17           do restoration at these grounding sites, which 
            18           has enabled us to save a lot of our natural 
            19           resources, corals and seagrasses. 
            20                In particular, we restored an area out in 
            21           the Dry Tortugas where a freighter anchored and 
            22           caused extensive damage, and we were able to 
            23           restore over 1,100 corals out there in the Dry 
            24           Tortugas Ecological Reserve.  
            25                Thank you.  I'm going to turn it over to 


             1           Mr. Causey.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you. 
             3                MR. CAUSEY:  Good morning, Governor and 
             4           Honorable Cabinet Members.  Thank you very much 
             5           for having us again this year.  We always look 
             6           forward to this time.  Again, my name is Billy 
             7           Causey, and I'm the superintendent of the 
             8           Florida Keys National Marine --
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's the only time you wear 
            10           a coat and tie, isn't it, Billy?  
            11                MR. CAUSEY:  Excuse me?  
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's the only time you get 
            13           to wear a coat and tie, when you come up here to 
            14           the Cabinet.
            15                MR. CAUSEY:  That's right.  And Allison 
            16           Defore (phonetic) says I have to get the 
            17           mothball smell out of my coats better.
            18                GOVERNOR BUSH:  How would Allison know?
            19                (Laughter.)
            20                MR. CAUSEY:  Well, I want to point out as I 
            21           open, we have a tremendous state-federal 
            22           partnership here in the State of Florida between 
            23           NOAA and the State of Florida, the Department of 
            24           Environmental Protection, and the Fish and 
            25           Wildlife Conservation Commission.  My colleagues 


             1           in the other 13 sanctuaries around the United
             2           States are envious of this state-federal 
             3           partnership and the way it has worked over the 
             4           years.  
             5                But I want to point out just some of the 
             6           things that we appreciate so much, and one is 
             7           your decision to avoid the coral reefs in the 
             8           Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary when you 
             9           approved the access corridors for the fiber 
            10           optic cables.  I think the decisions that were 
            11           made there, the use of some of the 
            12           state-of-the-art technology to map the contours 
            13           of the ocean floor and to bring those cables in 
            14           through the right corridors was a tremendous 
            15           statement on your part as far as being concerned 
            16           about the environment and the coral reef 
            17           habitats, but also being very cognizant of the 
            18           importance economically of having fiber optic 
            19           cables come into the state.  So those are the 
            20           kinds of things that we tremendously appreciate.
            21                Back in December of 2002, the Florida Keys 
            22           National Marine Sanctuary and Florida was really 
            23           put on the international map in this designation 
            24           of Particularly Sensitive Sea Area.  This is an 
            25           international maritime organization designation, 


             1           and it was the third what we call a PSSA that
             2           was named in the world.  And these are areas 
             3           that are set aside because of their particular 
             4           environmental sensitivity, and they're areas 
             5           where you have had lot of shipping traffic, and 
             6           there are threats due to that shipping traffic. 
             7                And by establishing the Particularly 
             8           Sensitive Sea Area, it puts us literally on the 
             9           global maps, the nautical charts, that the 
            10           Florida Keys are an area where, when they're 
            11           navigating through that area, they have to be 
            12           aware that there are no-anchor zones, there are 
            13           areas where they can't transit, but that we are 
            14           also trying to work with the shipping community 
            15           to identify these very special areas.  Ships 
            16           greater than 50 meters in length or 164 feet in 
            17           length have to stay outside an area to be 
            18           avoided around the Keys, but have the corridor 
            19           to get into Key West and other areas.  The 
            20           Particularly Sensitive Sea Area puts this on the 
            21           British Admiralty Charts, for example.  So we 
            22           really are excited about that happening during 
            23           the last year.
            24                Another thing I want to report is that we 
            25           have been working very closely with our state 


             1           partners, all the permitting agencies, both
             2           state and federal, to work with the Navy in the 
             3           Key West harbor dredging project.  I think this 
             4           has been a model of cooperation.  A project that 
             5           would normally take two to three years to get 
             6           the permits, we were able to deliver the permit 
             7           to the U.S. Navy within one year.  And we used a 
             8           process that we've used often in the Keys 
             9           between our state partners and the federal 
            10           government, where we bring everyone to the table 
            11           at one time, to where the Navy and the Corps of 
            12           Engineers don't have to keep going to each of 
            13           the agencies, and it's all done at one time, and 
            14           all the concerns are heard.
            15                I have to say the Navy has been extremely 
            16           cooperative with us.  They're going to be -- and 
            17           this is one time that harbor dredging is a very 
            18           positive thing, because they're going to be 
            19           removing the sediments out of the Key West 
            20           harbor that have accumulated there over the -- 
            21           since the '60s, which was the last maintenance 
            22           dredging project.  And those sediments have 
            23           accumulated there, and sediment is really lethal 
            24           to coral reefs.  Sedimentation and turbidity are 
            25           a problem.  So by removing that sediment, it's 


             1           going to have a positive impact.  So people are
             2           really, really happy about that, and I have to 
             3           say our state partners and the feds have all 
             4           worked very well together. 
             5                The last thing I want to emphasize is, you 
             6           heard Ann McCarthy point out the success of the 
             7           Tortugas Ecological Reserve.  A lot of people  
             8           hear about these fully protected areas and their 
             9           importance.  And, Governor, you and the Cabinet 
            10           took leadership in this nation by establishing 
            11           the Tortugas Ecological Reserve as this nation's 
            12           largest fully protected marine protected area. 
            13                Another type of our zoning that we use in 
            14           the Florida Keys are called wildlife management 
            15           areas, and these are turning into really 
            16           successes.  We don't prohibit fishing or 
            17           activities like that, but we do limit the kinds 
            18           of access to these areas.  And in fact, this 
            19           year, or this month, we're going to be featured 
            20           in the Florida Fly Fisherman magazine, where the 
            21           reporter went through the Keys talking to flats 
            22           guys, tried to find someone to say something 
            23           negative about these areas, and all they could 
            24           hear were positive things.  So I'm going to 
            25           frame that one and put it on my wall and, 


             1           Governor, I'll probably send you a copy of it.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Could you? 
             3                MR. CAUSEY:  But I just want to say that --
             4                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I'll put it up there on the 
             5           wall with all the other positive news stories I 
             6           get. 
             7                MR. CAUSEY:  Fantastic.  But again, I want 
             8           to express my appreciation on behalf of my 
             9           supervisor, my boss, the Director of the 
            10           National --
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  How are we going to measure 
            12           the success of the Dry Tortugas preserve?  Is 
            13           there a way to measure downstream or upstream, 
            14           upcurrent?  Can you count the critters?
            15                MR. CAUSEY:  Yes, sir.  There are several 
            16           different ways, and we're looking at it a number 
            17           of ways.  One is that we have scientists that 
            18           are looking at the fish and lobster in the area, 
            19           and a number of scientists that are looking at 
            20           different aspects.  
            21                The more difficult thing is to be able to 
            22           trace where the larvae are actually going.  But 
            23           now with some of the technologies that they have 
            24           available, you can actually look at the snapper 
            25           in Florida Bay and look at the snapper and find 


             1           the related species out from the Tortugas, or
             2           whether they're from the same spawning group.  
             3           So there are ways that -- we're looking at the 
             4           various current patterns, and we mimic the 
             5           lobster, or we mimic different species.  And 
             6           when they spawn and release that spawn and it 
             7           circulates for three to four weeks before they 
             8           settle out, we're able to track through current 
             9           meters and drifting -- drift bottles just 
            10           exactly where they're being distributed.  
            11                So there are ways that we're looking at 
            12           that, but the best way is to listen to the 
            13           fishermen and to see where the fishermen are 
            14           fishing on the edges of these areas. 
            15                In the Western Sambos Ecological Reserve, 
            16           the fishermen fish right up to the very edge, 
            17           which is a clear signal to us that they either 
            18           think there are more fish inside or that they 
            19           want to be the first ones to catch them when 
            20           they come out.  But there are ways to do it.
            21                GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's good solid science.
            22                MR. CAUSEY:  The question you asked about 
            23           the Speigel Grove, and then I'll -- this is the 
            24           last item.  It did turn over on its side.  And 
            25           one of the things that we've been doing, we've 


             1           been looking at the number of the divers that
             2           are using it, because we sold this to the public 
             3           on the fact that we think that it takes diving 
             4           pressure off the natural reefs.  And what we 
             5           have found is that by being on its side, it's 
             6           attracting a greater diversity of reef fish 
             7           species and that it's actually turning into a 
             8           very positive event.  Divers like to dive on 
             9           them sitting upright, but on its side it's 
            10           actually attracting more species.
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Then why didn't you put it 
            12           on the side to begin with?
            13                MR. CAUSEY:  Well, that was up to the ones 
            14           that were running the project, and they wanted 
            15           an upright ship.  And they would still like to 
            16           have it upright, but from a biological and 
            17           ecological perspective, on its side is not bad.
            18                GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's kind of like turning 
            19           a lemon into lemonade, huh? 
            20                MR. CAUSEY:  That's right.  I can spin it.
            21                All right.  Thank you, Governor.
            22                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, Billy.
            23                MR. STRUHS:  We do need a motion to accept 
            24           the report.
            25                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion.


             1                CFO GALLAGHER:  Second.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             3           Without objection, the item passes.
             4                We thank you all for coming to give us this 
             5           presentation.  We really do.
             6                MR. STRUHS:  Item 3, sir, continues this 
             7           theme of strong state-federal partnerships.  As 
             8           you know, we've been a strong partner in 
             9           providing land for the expansion of Everglades 
            10           National Park.  This items would convey to the 
            11           National Park Service 329, almost 330 acres, 
            12           which will be the final installation by the 
            13           State of Florida for the completion of an 
            14           expanded Everglades National Park.
            15                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 3.
            16                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second. 
            17                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
            18           Without objection, the item passes.
            19                MR. STRUHS:  Item 4 deals with Murphy Act 
            20           lands.  And as you know, these are properties, 
            21           oftentimes very small parcels that people lost 
            22           for taxes during the Great Depression, and our 
            23           instructions have been to try to return them to 
            24           the tax rolls where they could be put back on 
            25           the tax rolls.  We check with local and county 


             1           governments first to make sure that they don't
             2           want them.  In this case, they did not.  This is 
             3           Nassau County.  We put them in a local 
             4           newspaper, advertised them for the appraised 
             5           value.  In this case, we had but one respondent 
             6           willing to pay the appraised value plus the cost 
             7           of the appraisal itself.  
             8                We would recommend approval of this item.  
             9           These lands, as you all know, are not 
            10           conservation lands.  These are lands that have 
            11           been held by the State now for some decades.
            12                CFO GALLAGHER:  I have a question.  We're 
            13           going to get $7,500 for 14 acres, almost 15.  
            14           And the only reason I can imagine somebody would 
            15           want to buy this is to use it as mitigation so 
            16           they can develop some other wetlands.
            17                MR. STRUHS:  That's one option; that's 
            18           correct.
            19                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, do you think that's 
            20           what's going to happen here?  I mean, that's 
            21           sort of what I --
            22                MR. STRUHS:  Well, we really don't know.  
            23           And I guess the point I would make is that once 
            24           a private owner has it, they can do whatever 
            25           they can with the property as long as it's legal 


             1           and as long as they get the appropriate permits
             2           through the local government or the water 
             3           management district.
             4                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, where I'm coming from 
             5           is, I mean, the idea that you have mitigation is 
             6           to protect wetlands; right?  At least that's 
             7           what I believe.
             8                MR. STRUHS:  That's correct.
             9                CFO GALLAGHER:  And so we've already got 
            10           them protected.  We own it.  So we're going to 
            11           now sell it to somebody so it becomes 
            12           technically unprotected, and that person is 
            13           going to use that that was already protected so 
            14           they can develop some other wetlands that are 
            15           unprotected.  
            16                MR. STRUHS:  I guess there are two ways for 
            17           the State to protect wetland interests.  One is 
            18           by owning them; the other is by regulating 
            19           them.  In this case, we own them, but we didn't 
            20           own them because of their particular natural 
            21           resource values.  We own them because of a 
            22           depression many decades ago. 
            23                To the extent that they are now private if 
            24           the sale goes through, they would still be 
            25           regulated as wetlands, and they would still have 


             1           to meet all the requirements in the event that
             2           that owner wanted to develop it or use it as 
             3           mitigation. 
             4                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I understand that.  
             5           I don't think anybody is going to develop it.  
             6           What I think they're going to do is, they're 
             7           going to take the advantage of that as owned 
             8           wetland and put it into a nondevelopable, you 
             9           know, mitigation area so that they can develop 
            10           another wetland that they own.
            11                MR. STRUHS:  That is a possibility.  
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Or they may use it.  They 
            13           may harvest the timber.
            14                MR. STRUHS:  That's true too.
            15                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I mean, there could be 
            16           uses for the property that aren't -- that are 
            17           within the law.
            18                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, if they have a bunch 
            19           of timber on it, probably $7,500 is pretty 
            20           cheap.
            21                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, you haven't 
            22           seen timber prices lately.  
            23                CFO GALLAGHER:  I should have known.
            24                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Fourteen acres of 
            25           timber at today's prices, they're not going to 


             1           make much money on it.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  How can timber prices be so 
             3           low now when lumber prices are so high?
             4                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, lumber itself 
             5           has gone up, processed lumber, and a lot of 
             6           that is coming in from Canada and Australia and 
             7           other places.  But our own domestic timber has 
             8           not really surged in price that much.  So there 
             9           is -- 
            10                CFO GALLAGHER:  Who's making the --
            11                COMMISSION BRONSON:  It's one of those 
            12           trade issue things that we've been talking about 
            13           over the last few years.
            14                CFO GALLAGHER:  So the middleman is making 
            15           all the money here.
            16                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, somebody is.  
            17           The farmer's not.
            18                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, where I'm coming from 
            19           is, we're -- I mean, is this some program we 
            20           want to do?  We want to find all the Murphy land 
            21           that exists that happens to be wet and sell it 
            22           to private developers so they can develop the 
            23           wetland they own?  I mean, I feel like we're 
            24           going backwards here.
            25                MR. STRUHS:  Actually, the instructions 


             1           that we've been given by the Legislature and by
             2           the Board is to dispose of all Murphy Act lands, 
             3           whether they're wet and dry or anything in 
             4           between.  One of the reasons is because --
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Unless they're part of some 
             6           strategic effort --
             7                MR. STRUHS:  That's correct.
             8                GOVERNOR:  -- to conserve land.  I mean, 
             9           that's --
            10                MR. STRUHS:  That's right.
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  You know, I'm not 
            12           disagreeing with that.  What my concern is is 
            13           that, you know, somebody owns, you know, 14 
            14           acres that happens to be wet on, you know, I 
            15           guess I-95, and obviously he hasn't been able to 
            16           develop it, so he spends 75 extra hundred bucks 
            17           and puts this up and, you know, builds his 
            18           shopping center.  And maybe that's the best use 
            19           for that land when you really look at it if it's 
            20           sitting on I-95, but -- 
            21                MR. STRUHS:  Sure.  
            22                CFO GALLAGHER:  You know, that's probably a 
            23           bad example, but --
            24                GOVERNOR BUSH:  I was going to say.
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  There's some others that 


             1           might be right on Biscayne Bay, where we might
             2           not particularly want them to fill and put a 
             3           high-rise, you know, right next to a preserve.  
             4           And for 7,500 bucks, you know, they've got a 
             5           14-acre property they can develop.  I'm just -- 
             6           you know, I don't want to say not to do this 
             7           particular one, but I'm worried about if this is 
             8           an ongoing thing we're going to be doing.  You 
             9           know, are we going to be able to -- the brag is 
            10           we put it on the tax roll.  And I don't know -- 
            11           as a process, is this environmentally sound as 
            12           an ongoing -- grab all the wetland Murphy lands 
            13           we can find and let everybody use them for 
            14           mitigation?
            15                MR. STRUHS:  The Governor made a good 
            16           point, which is that if it is a parcel that can 
            17           be utilized for conservation purposes, we 
            18           wouldn't look to sell it.  We would look to 
            19           incorporate it into some kind of larger 
            20           management scheme.
            21                The issue with these parcels is that many 
            22           of them are very small, and they're disjointed, 
            23           and they're very difficult for the State to 
            24           manage.  In fact, I think we can honestly say 
            25           that we don't manage them, and in many cases 


             1           they end up becoming roadside dumps where people
             2           trespass and use them as a cheap way to get rid 
             3           of garbage.
             4                So one of the things that we tried to do is 
             5           look at the size of the parcel and its location, 
             6           and these are properties that we really can't 
             7           effectively manage for a conservation purpose or 
             8           probably any purpose.
             9                CFO GALLAGHER:  Then that leads me to say 
            10           that somebody in this case, this couple, or 
            11           somebody else -- I don't want to pick on them -- 
            12           spends their 7,500 bucks and buys this 15 
            13           acres.  You know, I don't think they're going to 
            14           be managing it.  It's hard for me to believe 
            15           that.  My guess is that it sits there, and it's 
            16           still not going to get managed, and people are 
            17           still going to dump stuff on it.  What's to stop 
            18           that?
            19                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Well, Governor, I 
            20           understand where the Chief Financial Officer is 
            21           coming from.  But if I happen to be owner of 
            22           some property that butts up next to that 14 
            23           acres and I wanted to make sure somebody didn't 
            24           build next to me or didn't throw something in on 
            25           top of me, for $7,500, I would be more than 


             1           willing to buy that 14 acres just to keep that
             2           from happening next to my own property.  
             3                So I -- you know, there's two ways to look 
             4           at this, and one is a negative side and the 
             5           other is a positive.  But if I happen to be the 
             6           owners of that land that surrounded it or was 
             7           next to it and wanted to protect it myself, then 
             8           I certainly would pay that much money to make 
             9           sure nobody built a house on top of me or built 
            10           something else next to me.
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Do we know -- I mean, did 
            12           they come to the candidates meeting to say what 
            13           its proposed use was, or was there any -- 
            14                MR. STRUHS:  Well, yes.  I think in the 
            15           discussions with the Franklin family, they 
            16           indicated a potential interest in using these 
            17           for wetlands mitigation. 
            18                Having said that, that's not part of the 
            19           contract.  When we dispose of these parcels, 
            20           they can use that property for any use that they 
            21           can get permission.
            22                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, what we have here is, 
            23           there's one piece that's 10 acres, and the rest 
            24           of them, we've got a one, a one and a half, 1.6, 
            25           and a .6.  Are they near each other, or do they 


             1           just happen to be all over the place?
             2                MR. STRUHS:  Well, they're all in Nassau 
             3           County, but they are not adjacent to each other.  
             4           They're sort of a mosaic. 
             5                What I can do for you is, we can try to 
             6           survey all the existing Murphy Act properties 
             7           and give you a sense as to how many of them are 
             8           wet and how many of them are dry and the nature 
             9           of the properties that we are trying to --
            10                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Eva is right behind you. 
            11                MR. STRUHS:  Eva just told me we've 
            12           actually already employed somebody to do that 
            13           particular project for us.  It's a big 
            14           assignment, because there are a lot of these 
            15           parcels around the state. 
            16                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Repeat it.  I don't think 
            17           Tom was --
            18                MR. STRUHS:  There are tens of thousands of 
            19           these Murphy Act parcels across the State of 
            20           Florida.  We apparently have employed somebody 
            21           on a contract basis to go out and try to assess 
            22           the condition and status of these parcels.
            23                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, you understand where 
            24           I'm coming from with the -- 
            25                MR. STRUHS:  Yes.


             1                CFO GALLAGHER:  I mean, are we going to
             2           just keep selling wetlands to let people 
             3           mitigate with them?  You know, we're not 
             4           carrying out our mitigation obligation that 
             5           way.  I mean, maybe we are.  I have a hard time 
             6           seeing that we are, but, you know, maybe we are, 
             7           although if it's already sitting in our -- we 
             8           know nobody is going to build it while we own 
             9           it.  The idea of mitigation is to let somebody 
            10           go buy somebody else's or put their own up and 
            11           see to it that it's not ever going to be 
            12           developed and it's protected as a wetland.
            13                MR. STRUHS:  Well, I can tell you we really 
            14           felt on this item, as we have on all these 
            15           Murphy Act exchanges, that we were actually 
            16           following the instructions of the Board.  If we 
            17           want to go in a new direction or new policy, 
            18           that's fine, but we were actually trying to 
            19           execute the instructions we were given. 
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  To use Tom's analogy, we 
            21           get money.  It is on the tax rolls.  The 
            22           development process is still intact.  If we 
            23           didn't do it, there -- and the mitigation 
            24           typically is not acre for acre or foot for 
            25           foot.  It's typically --


             1                CFO GALLAGHER:  They've got to put up more
             2           than --
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes.  So mitigation in and 
             4           of itself has that benefit.  And the good news 
             5           would be that we're not going to sell property 
             6           that is part of our mission, I would assume.  I 
             7           mean, that would be -- since I've been Governor, 
             8           that has never happened.
             9                MR. STRUHS:  That's correct.
            10                GOVERNOR BUSH:  And I don't think anybody 
            11           on this Cabinet would ever allow that to happen. 
            12           So from a policy point of view, I think it makes 
            13           sense.
            14                Now, you know, if every -- these thousands 
            15           of tracts of land, if they're all wetlands, then 
            16           there needs to be some re-evaluation.  My guess 
            17           is that it probably reflects the mix of the, you 
            18           know, land in the state.  I don't think it would 
            19           be any different.
            20                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  But, Governor, I 
            21           think we need to be very practical about how 
            22           we're looking at this too.  Quite frankly, 
            23           privately owned and controlled lands are 
            24           actually kept in better shape than what we're 
            25           capable of putting money --


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  These dual, you know,
             2           off-parcels, there's no way we're going to -- 
             3           you would have to have an army of people out 
             4           there.
             5                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  And if they use it 
             6           for their own park, or whatever they use it for, 
             7           for mitigation, to keep it that way, the chances 
             8           are they're going to take better care of it and 
             9           keep the non-native species and so forth off of 
            10           it better than what we're capable of doing on 
            11           our own state lands.  So from a positive 
            12           standpoint, the land may be more positively kept 
            13           than what we're capable of doing ourselves right 
            14           now.
            15                CFO GALLAGHER:  My guess is that this group 
            16           of areas, somebody is going to put that up in a 
            17           trade so they can get a development right on 
            18           another piece and, you know, never will this be 
            19           visited again.  That's just a gut thought.
            20                MR. STRUHS:  Commissioner, I think one of 
            21           the bigger policy issues that might deserve your 
            22           attention would be, do you want us in the future 
            23           to ask the potential purchaser what their 
            24           intentions are for the property?  Right now they 
            25           sometimes share that as a matter of course, but 


             1           it's not something that we specifically request,
             2           nor is it something that we would require.
             3                I was just alerted to the fact that just 
             4           yesterday, Mr. and Mrs. Franklin indicated that 
             5           their intention for at least some of these 
             6           parcels would be to remove the timber from the 
             7           land.  Now, that's something that they've shared 
             8           with us voluntarily.  It's not something that we 
             9           would normally have requested or have 
            10           incorporated into the exchange or the sale.
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, the --
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Prices are going up, 
            13           Commissioner.
            14                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  It depends on what 
            15           they're going to do with it.
            16                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I think for -- you 
            17           know, here's the deal.  They can take the timber 
            18           off and still use it as wetlands mitigation.  
            19           You know, you can maybe get both.  Why wouldn't 
            20           you if you bought it for that? 
            21                I'm just -- it's just whether -- I'm 
            22           concerned about the policy of selling it, using 
            23           it for mitigation.  And maybe my worries are not 
            24           needed. 
            25                I can see a business set up to come to 


             1           state lands and start surveying where all the
             2           Murphy Act properties are and start putting 
             3           together for developers, here's -- you know, 
             4           here's what you buy.  You can buy it, you know, 
             5           pretty cheap, and I'll put these together for 
             6           you, and you can go develop the other land.  
             7           That sounds like a pretty good business for me.
             8                GOVERNOR BUSH:  But it's also -- that would 
             9           be a very efficient thing to do, if you think 
            10           about it.  It -- 
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, it might be.
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's the -- under the 
            13           assumption that our growth management process 
            14           works, that our permitting process works, that 
            15           land use decisions at the local level are better 
            16           now than they were, which in most places I would 
            17           say that's the case.  I'm not sure it is across 
            18           the board.  So that's why mitigation -- I mean, 
            19           I'm a big fan of it, because I think it does 
            20           bring an efficiency to a marketplace.  And the 
            21           question is, do we have to own the land and 
            22           assume that that land is better off --
            23                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I'm all for the 
            24           mitigation program.  I think it makes sense.  It 
            25           allows developers to develop property that ought 


             1           to be developed, but at the same time save some
             2           wetlands of equal value.  And my concern is, are 
             3           they supposed to -- is it a good idea for them 
             4           to get ones that are already protected?  I mean, 
             5           the whole idea is to protect other wetlands that 
             6           aren't -- that could be under threat.  So, you 
             7           know, here we are providing the mitigation to 
             8           them instead of them buying something else and 
             9           protecting it. I mean, right now while we own 
            10           it, it's protected.  So we're -- you know, other 
            11           than the argument that we're putting it on the 
            12           tax roll and we're getting a few dollars for it 
            13           -- I guess that's a positive.  Anyway --
            14                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  For the counties, it 
            15           would be a great positive, I can tell you that. 
            16                CFO GALLAGHER:  I'm sure.
            17                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  If the outcome is 
            18           the same, it's being protected for its wetlands 
            19           features and is going to be protected by the 
            20           property owner and probably taken care of 
            21           better, then I think the exchange of the 
            22           positives on this is much greater than us --
            23                CFO GALLAGHER:  It may be.
            24                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  -- just hanging on 
            25           to it and keeping it, when you're going to have 


             1           taxes paid and you're going to have people
             2           taking care of their own property.  I see some 
             3           positive sides.  There can be some negatives, 
             4           but I see more positives than I do negatives.
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any other discussion?
             6                CFO GALLAGHER:  That completes the 
             7           discussion.  We can move on.
             8                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, we've got to vote.
             9                CFO GALLAGHER:  Yes, we do.
            10                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a motion?
            11                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion.
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a second?
            13                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.  
            14                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All in favor say aye.
            15                (Simultaneous affirmative responses.)
            16                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All opposed?  The motion 
            17           passes.
            18                MR. STRUHS:  Thank you for that.  Item 
            19           5 --
            20                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Do you want an extension, 
            21           or was that enough?  
            22                MR. STRUHS:  Item 5, we recommend approval.  
            23           This will allow an easement to be released, and 
            24           in exchange for that, we're getting a new 
            25           entrance built into the state property.


             1                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.
             2                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             4           Without objection, the item passes.
             5                MR. STRUHS:  Item 6 is a really fine item.  
             6           It is a remarkable opportunity to put in a new  
             7           trailhead that will be serving trails that head 
             8           both north and south and east and west.  
             9                Mark Middlebrooks is here from the City of 
            10           Jacksonville, if you would come on up, Mark.  We 
            11           just want to share with you a map so you can get 
            12           a quick idea what this property is all about.
            13                This is a -- using Florida Forever monies 
            14           reserved for the Greenways and Trails program, 
            15           the City of Jacksonville has already purchased 
            16           the property.  We reimburse them 50 percent, and 
            17           the Board of Trustees take 100 percent of the 
            18           title.
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  You know, if you put it on 
            20           the stand --
            21                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Lay that down.
            22                CFO GALLAGHER:  There you go.  Look up to 
            23           your left, and you'll see --
            24                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I'm getting seasick 
            25           here.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a way to -- can
             2           you focus that, Eva?
             3                CFO GALLAGHER:  They'll zip in on it once 
             4           they figure out where they're going to zip to.
             5                MS. ARMSTRONG:  Mike is going to fix it 
             6           for us.  The parcel you're focusing in on is 
             7           this here.
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  I think somebody in the 
             9           back usually does the zooming.
            10                (Simultaneous conversation.)
            11                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Whoa, there we go.
            12                MR. STRUHS:  Go ahead, Mark.  
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Give us some orientation, 
            14           please.
            15                MS. ARMSTRONG:  This is I-10 going across 
            16           here, 90 right above it.  The property we're 
            17           acquiring is facing right off of 90.  It's the 
            18           property right here.  You have Cary Forest to 
            19           the north in bright green, and you have Jennings 
            20           State Forest off the map to the south down here.  
            21           What else would you like me to point out?
            22                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Cecil Field.  
            23                MR. MIDDLEBROOKS:  Cecil Field is right --
            24                (Simultaneous conversation.) 
            25                MS. ARMSTRONG:  And then the Baldwin Trail, 


             1           which is the dotted line through the center. 
             2           Okay?  
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.
             4                MS. ARMSTRONG:  And the trailhead.  Oh, 
             5           yes, the trailhead.  This will be the trailhead 
             6           for the trail.  
             7                MR. MIDDLEBROOKS:  This is a trailhead 
             8           that serves primarily --
             9                (Simultaneous conversation.)
            10                MR. MIDDLEBROOKS:  -- and stretches from 
            11           Cary Forest to Jennings State Forest.  We have 
            12           about 12 land acquisitions to do to make the 
            13           final connection between the Rails to Trails and 
            14           the two forests.  This is an intermediate 
            15           trailhead off 90 or Beaver Street that would be 
            16           serving this entire area to the north.
            17                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 6.
            18                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.  Governor, 
            19           I would also like to say -- and I've met a 
            20           number of times with the previous mayor, as well 
            21           as working with the current administration, 
            22           because we do have some state forest involved in 
            23           this -- that they're probably as a city one of 
            24           the groups that have worked the hardest to try 
            25           to keep these open green spaces within their 


             1           city area so that people can use them as parks
             2           and use it as a connector to the greenways and 
             3           trails, which is what the whole connection idea 
             4           of greenways and trails was for.  And I think we 
             5           ought to applaud Jacksonville for sticking their 
             6           neck out and going to do some of these projects 
             7           where the State has not been able to come 
             8           directly in, but is working as a partner with 
             9           Jacksonville to accomplish their goal, which is 
            10           to keep these open green spaces for wildlife and 
            11           natural resources in the Jacksonville area, and 
            12           I'm proud to second that motion.
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a 
            14           second.  Without objection, the motion passes. 
            15                Thank you very much.  Send our regards to 
            16           the mayor, please.
            17                MR. MIDDLEBROOKS:  I will do that. 
            18                MR. STRUHS:  Item 7 continues our progress 
            19           in acquiring sensitive properties in the Green 
            20           Swamp area.  This is two different option 
            21           agreements, one for a perpetual conservation 
            22           easement, the other for a fee simple 
            23           acquisition.  We recommend approval for both of 
            24           those items. 
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 7.


             1                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
             2                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             3           Without objection, the item passes.
             4                GENERAL CRIST:  Just a question, Governor.
             5                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes, General. 
             6                GENERAL CRIST:  Thank you.  David, on this 
             7           one, is this the one that has 70 percent?  This 
             8           creates a conservation easement, does it not?
             9                MR. STRUHS:  Yes, sir.  The first -- there 
            10           are two transactions here.  The one that is the 
            11           conservation easement is the first one.  That's 
            12           with Tami Charlton. 
            13                GENERAL CRIST:  But it allows 30 percent to 
            14           be used for the easement, or is it -- do you 
            15           know the percentage?  
            16                MR. STRUHS:  The easement is over the 
            17           entire property.  
            18                GENERAL CRIST:  Okay.
            19                MR. STRUHS:  The easement covers the entire 
            20           property.  And the second one is a fee simple 
            21           acquisition. 
            22                I will point out just one interesting 
            23           policy point that is probably worth bringing to 
            24           your attention.  On this conservation easement, 
            25           it allows the owner to continue to use the 


             1           property for row crops.  This is probably the
             2           last example of a conservation easement in the 
             3           Green Swamp area where we would allow the 
             4           conversion to row crops.
             5                GENERAL CRIST:  I guess that was the 
             6           question, I guess.  You know, do we want to get 
             7           a conservation easement, and yet part of the 
             8           property is not arguably used for conservation 
             9           purposes?
            10                MR. STRUHS:  Right.  Well, these things -- 
            11           as you know, every conservation easement is 
            12           unique.  Each one is negotiated with a different 
            13           owner for a different parcel.  Sometimes if you 
            14           want to be successful in getting an easement 
            15           negotiated, it requires compromise both ways.  
            16           And in this case, in order to get the easement 
            17           for the State, the seller insisted on being able 
            18           to reserve the right to convert some of this 
            19           property to row crops.  In our estimation, it 
            20           was still appropriate and a useful acquisition 
            21           for the State.
            22                But what I wanted to share with you just as 
            23           a point of, I think, policy consideration going 
            24           forward, it probably is the last one that we 
            25           will bring to you that would have the allowance 


             1           for the conversion to row crops in the Green
             2           Swamp area. 
             3                GENERAL CRIST:  You anticipated my next 
             4           question.  Thank you.
             5                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 7.
             6                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  
             8           Without objection the item passes.
             9                MR. STRUHS:  Item 8, we would like to 
            10           withdraw that item.
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion to withdraw 8.
            12                GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to 
            14           withdraw and a second.  Without objection, the 
            15           item passes.  When do you think you'll have that 
            16           back to us?
            17                MR. STRUHS:  I hope it will be back in 
            18           about a month.
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.  There's a good -- 
            20           back to your subject of uses for conservation 
            21           easements, this is --
            22                CFO GALLAGHER:  A challenge. 
            23                GOVERNOR BUSH:  A real challenge, and very 
            24           pertinent.
            25                MR. STRUHS:  I know you're short on time, 


             1           but one of the things I can share with you in
             2           terms of the nature of the discussions that are 
             3           ongoing now, the Board of Trustees some time 
             4           ago was very successful in negotiating a 
             5           conservation easement for Fisheating Creek 
             6           Phase 1.  
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Right.
             8                MR. STRUHS:  And in Phase 1, that was the 
             9           result of a settlement of longstanding 
            10           litigation.  And it was interesting the way that 
            11           conservation easement was constructed, in that 
            12           what it did is, it had the State purchase all of 
            13           the rights on the property but for those that 
            14           were singled out and retained by the Lykes 
            15           Company.  That is probably the only conservation 
            16           easement of its kind in the State of Florida 
            17           where the State purchased everything but for 
            18           those rights retained by the landowner.  
            19                What we're focusing on now in Phase 3 -- we 
            20           skipped Phase 2 -- is a conservation easement 
            21           that is far more similar to other conservation 
            22           easements around the state where through the 
            23           easement the State is buying particular rights.  
            24           You're not buying all of them but those reserved 
            25           by the seller.  Instead, the State is just 


             1           buying certain rights.  And I think one of the
             2           things that had complicated this transaction is 
             3           recognizing that, while it is still Fisheating 
             4           Creek and it is still part of that larger term 
             5           conservation agenda, the starting point of the 
             6           discussion is more similar to other conservation 
             7           easements around the state.  Phase 1 was unique.
             8                CFO GALLAGHER:  Well, I think what we 
             9           ought to be doing is the other way around.  We 
            10           ought to be buying these properties and allowing 
            11           specific rights to stay with the seller, because 
            12           the other way, we have a good chance of 
            13           forgetting something like minerals, oil 
            14           drilling.  I mean, who knows what it could be.  
            15           And that wasn't mentioned, so therefore we don't 
            16           retain the rights, they do.  And if you say, 
            17           "Okay.  We're going to buy it all except for," 
            18           and put the exceptions back to the seller so 
            19           that we know exactly what they can do with the 
            20           land.  If it's they can use it for range for 
            21           cattle, fine.  If they can use it for 
            22           recreation, they can build, you know, one house 
            23           every so many acres, whatever they can do, it's 
            24           spelled out that way instead of, you know, we 
            25           spell out what we've saved.


             1                MR. STRUHS:  Right, and that's -- I'm
             2           sorry.  That's why I raised this issue, because 
             3           that is the underlying part of the issue in 
             4           terms of the difference between Phase 1 and 
             5           Phase 3 on Fisheating Creek.  Phase 3 is looking 
             6           a lot more like every other conservation 
             7           easement we've done over the last five years.
             8                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, answer Tom's 
             9           comment.
            10                CFO GALLAGHER:  Why aren't we -- what 
            11           you've told me is that we're paying them money, 
            12           and we're saying "This is what we bought from 
            13           you.  You can do everything else," as opposed to 
            14           saying, "We're giving you money.  We get 
            15           everything, and we'll give you these certain 
            16           things that you want to retain."
            17                MR. STRUHS:  I think if you look at 
            18           conservation easements around the country, not 
            19           just in Florida, the way we are doing it now is 
            20           typical.  It is the conventional approach.  One 
            21           of the reasons that's the conventional approach 
            22           is because conservation easements, the origin of 
            23           the idea was that it was truly to be a 
            24           partnership, a partnership between a private 
            25           landowner and public interest.


             1                GOVERNOR BUSH:  But, David, again, let's
             2           assume this is not a typical piece of property.  
             3           It's 24,000 acres, and there's another one 
             4           coming.  I think you can put aside convention 
             5           and look at this from the Treasurer's 
             6           perspective and concur that in this negotiation 
             7           for such a large piece of property, it ought to 
             8           be totally transparent.  In other words, we 
             9           ought to know what we get and what they can use 
            10           the property for after we have an easement on 
            11           it.  I think that's very fair.  And just because 
            12           convention says you do it one way -- we probably 
            13           lead the nation in conservation easements, and 
            14           there are not many 23,000-acre tracts of land 
            15           that you're going to be negotiating.
            16                CFO GALLAGHER:  $24 million. 
            17                GOVERNOR BUSH:  So I think his counsel as 
            18           you go about negotiating in the next month is 
            19           wise.
            20                MR. STRUHS:  And I appreciate that very 
            21           much.  It does, of course, have an effect on the 
            22           value of the easement, and that's another 
            23           consideration in terms of --
            24                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, then you get back to 
            25           the only game in town concept, which, as has 


             1           been reported in one of the papers, this is
             2           really the -- this is the last frontier of 
             3           Florida.  It's worth protecting because it has 
             4           tremendous conservation values.  But, you know, 
             5           there's not going to be a new town built in the 
             6           next 10 years.  I was talking to Ken and 
             7           Stephanie about this.  The Berry Farms deal, you 
             8           know, we bought, and they were platting, or they 
             9           were working on building this gigantic city out 
            10           near LaBelle, and --
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  Sure they were.
            12                GOVERNOR BUSH:  You now, the price went up, 
            13           and we paid for it.  It was very important as 
            14           part of our efforts to -- for the Everglades 
            15           restoration project.  It was a very valuable 
            16           piece of land.  But you've got to remember that 
            17           we're an important player this, and I think 
            18           you've learned that.  I'm confident that a fair 
            19           deal can be done.  
            20                CFO GALLAGHER:  Here's the thing.  We're 
            21           paying at this point on -- on this one that 
            22           we're withdrawing, at this point it's 68 percent 
            23           of the value.
            24                MR. STRUHS:  That's correct.
            25                CFO GALLAGHER:  And so we should be 


             1           spelling out what they get to keep for their 34
             2           percent, 32 percent, as opposed to, you know, we 
             3           spell out what we bought for 68.
             4                MR. STRUHS:  And I would argue that any 
             5           conservation easement that is well written will 
             6           accomplish that. 
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  So this one will.
             8                MR. STRUHS:  Yes.
             9                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Just confirm it.  That's 
            10           what --
            11                CFO GALLAGHER:  All right.  Well, let's 
            12           move on, and we'll see it when you get it done. 
            13                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good.  Why are you 
            14           reticent?  
            15                MR. STRUHS:  Well, because I just was 
            16           trying to draw the distinction between the 
            17           starting point, the starting point of the 
            18           discussion. 
            19                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, You're starting over.
            20                CFO GALLAGHER:  What you're getting from us 
            21           is start over, and the idea is, their 32 percent 
            22           that they're retaining is the following things.  
            23           And then we want to -- then when we look at it, 
            24           we'll say, "Okay.  Well, that looks like it's 32 
            25           percent," or "My goodness, that looks like it's 


             1           50."  You know, I would rather it be 20, but
             2           that's -- see how good a negotiator you are. 
             3                GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.  There's a 
             4           motion to withdraw and a second.  I believe 
             5           we've already -- maybe we haven't.
             6                CFO GALLAGHER:  I don't think we did.
             7                GOVERNOR BUSH:  Without objection, the item 
             8           is withdrawn. 
             9                Item 9.
            10                MR. STRUHS:  Item 9 is an agreement that 
            11           needs to be approved by three bodies, the South 
            12           Florida Water Management District, the Board of 
            13           Trustees, and the Collier County Commission.  
            14           The governing board of the Water Management 
            15           District has already approved it.  It is on the 
            16           agenda for the next County Commission meeting.  
            17           And it was important that we get this on the 
            18           agenda today so that we can get your approval. 
            19                This is what will transfer the roadways in 
            20           Southern Golden Gate Estates to the County so 
            21           that we can move forward with this project that, 
            22           as you know, is critical to Everglades 
            23           restoration.
            24                CFO GALLAGHER:  Motion on 9.
            25                COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.


             1                MR. STRUHS:  And before you vote, I wanted
             2           to point out an important consideration.  
             3           Ordinarily when we would bring something like 
             4           this to you, we would have already negotiated 
             5           all the particulars as to the utility easements 
             6           that are already on that property.  In this 
             7           case, they are not.  But I wanted to make clear 
             8           for the record is that our intention is that 
             9           these would be the typical 50-year utility 
            10           easements.  And these are easements that are 
            11           already in place.  We're just recording them.
            12                CFO GALLAGHER:  There's a motion and a 
            13           second.
            14                GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a 
            15           second.  Any other discussion? 
            16                Without objection, the item passes.  Thank 
            17           you, David.  
            18                MR. STRUHS: Thank you.  
            19                (Proceedings concluded at 10:55 a.m.)


             2                    CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
             4     STATE OF FLORIDA)
             5     COUNTY OF LEON  )
             7           I, MARY ALLEN NEEL, do hereby certify that the 
             8     foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time 
             9     and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes 
            10     were thereafter transcribed under my supervision; and 
            11     that the foregoing pages numbered 1 through 95 are a 
            12     true and correct transcription of my stenographic 
            13     notes.
            14           I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, 
            15     employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, 
            16     or relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 
            17     or financially interested in the action.
            18           DATED THIS 26th day of September, 2003.
            22                                ___________________________
                                              MARY ALLEN NEEL, RPR
            23                                2894-A Remington Green Lane
                                              Tallahassee, Florida  32308
            24                                (850) 878-2221