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                                  T H E   C A B I N E T
                             S T A T E   O F    F L O R I D A

                              STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                                 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
                                  DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

                         The above agencies came to be heard before
               THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding, in
               the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee,
               Florida, on Tuesday, August 26, 2003, commencing at
               approximately 9:45 a.m.

                                       Reported by:
                                    KRISTEN L. BENTLEY
                                 Certified Court Reporter
                            ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                2894 REMINGTON GREEN LANE
                          TALLAHASSEE, FL  32308   (850)878-2221
                         Representing the Florida Cabinet:
                         JEB BUSH

                         CHARLES H. BRONSON
                         Commissioner of Agriculture
                         CHARLIE CRIST
                         Commissioner of Education
                         TOM GALLAGHER
                                          * * *

                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                        I N D E X
               (Presented by Coleman Stipanovich)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      34
               2                   Approved                      34
               3                   Approved                      34
               4                   Approved                      35
               5                   Approved                      35
               6                   Approved                      36
               (Presented by Ben Watkins)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      37
               2                   Approved                      37
               3                   Approved                      37
               4                   Approved                      38
               5                   Approved                      38
               6                   Approved                      38
               (Presented by Jim Zingale)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      40
               2                   Approved                      40
               3                   Approved                      40
               4                   Approved                      41
               5                   Approved                      70
               (Presented by Martin Young)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      71
               2                   Approved                      71
               (Presented by Theresa Tinker)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      72
               2                   Approved                      72

                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
               BOARD OF TRUSTEES
               (Presented by David Struhs)
               ITEM                ACTION                        PAGE
               1                   Approved                      114
               2                   Approved                      115
               3                   Approved                      116
               4                   Approved                      117
               5                   Approved                      117
               6                   Approved                      118
               7                   Withdrawn                     118
               8                   Approved                      118
               9                   Deferred                      119
               10                  Approved                      119
               11                  Approved                      120

                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1                            PROCEEDINGS
          2           (The agenda items commenced at approximately
          3    9:45 a.m.)
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  We now have a vote for the parole
          5         commissioner.  On May 13th, the cabinet meeting, we
          6         appointed Monica David as chair of the Parole
          7         Commission and also appointed a new parole
          8         qualifications committee to fill the vacancy on the
          9         Parole Commission.
         10              The parole qualifications committee process is set
         11         out by statute and consists of five people who serve
         12         for a two-year period as needed.  The current committee
         13         is made up of Deputy Sheriff Ed Spooner, Judge Merrill
         14         Olowos (phonetic), Police Chief Osadeo Oligo
         15         (phonetic), state attorney Jerry Blair, and sheriff Don
         16         Hunter.  Their purpose is to advertise and receive
         17         applications for parole commission vacancies and then
         18         forward three names to the governor and cabinet for
         19         consideration.  I would like to thank all of them for
         20         their efforts.  The three people that we had a chance
         21         to visit with all were, I think, very well qualified to
         22         take on this responsibility.
         23              The three names are Mr. Patrick Donaldson,
         24         Ms. Tina Pate and Mr. Robert Woody.  Our vote today
         25         will fill the vacancy for the term left by Commissioner
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         Henry that expires the end of June 2004.  And Ken is
          2         passing out the ballot.
          3              (Ballots are distributed.)
          4              (Pause.)
          5              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Governor, as opposed to
          6         doing a ballot, I'd just like to move Robert Woody and
          7         request the others go along.  I believe that Robert
          8         Woody is, one, very highly qualified, having his
          9         Master's degree from Rollins College.  Two, he has the
         10         experience necessary.  And, three, he also happens to
         11         be an African-American.  Which, without him being named
         12         to this very important position, we would be lacking
         13         for the first time in many, many years an
         14         African-American representation on the Parole
         15         Commission.  And that, I think, would be a mistake.
         16              If you look at what we have in regards to -- in
         17         black males, white males, there is a 32 percent white,
         18         66 black.  If you look at the female area, you end up
         19         with 33 percent black female.  50 percent -- where am
         20         I.  I had the female one here.  Anyway, there is a
         21         large disparity among what's in the prisons as
         22         opposed -- and we all recognize this problem -- as
         23         opposed to in our society.  I think it's extremely
         24         important we have a very qualified African-American and
         25         that that African-American is certainly one that would
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         have an excellent opportunity at it.
          2              So I would move that we hire Robert L. Woody.
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, I think the procedures are
          4         to have a vote.  And I will just tell you that I'm
          5         voting for Tina Pate.  We've never had someone who has
          6         had a track record of focusing on victims.  And 100
          7         percent of the crimes committed in our state have a
          8         victim attached to them.  And so I think it's more than
          9         appropriate to have that expertise.  Robert Woody is a
         10         friend of mine.  He serves in my administration.  He's
         11         a very talented man.  He's, to put it completely in
         12         perspective, he's been the cochairman of my campaign.
         13         And I have enormous respect for him.  But I think Tina
         14         Pate is the proper person.  All three of them actually
         15         were very well qualified.  The other gentleman does
         16         great work in the Department of Corrections.
         17              GENERAL CRIST:  I would echo the Governor's
         18         comments.  I also have voted for Ms. Pate.  I think her
         19         experience, particularly as it relates to victim
         20         services, is critical.  And as the Governor so well put
         21         it, every crime does have a victim and we are very
         22         fortunate today that we have three extremely qualified
         23         people for this position.  And Mr. Woody has been a
         24         friend of mine as well and continues to be.
         25              And, Patrick, had the chance to visit with you
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         this morning and was very impressed and appreciate the
          2         fact that you applied.  But I think Ms. Pate offers a
          3         great breadth of diversity as relates to her experience
          4         and background and I think would really serve the
          5         people of Florida very well so I voted for her as well.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I'm assuming you're voting for
          7         Mr. Woody, right?
          8              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  That's correct.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  So it's a 2-2 vote which I think
         10         is the first time under the new cabinet rules that the
         11         governor must be on the prevailing side.  And Tina Pate
         12         is the new parole commissioner.  Thank you all very
         13         much.
         14              Now, by law the appointment to the position of
         15         executive director of the Department of Law Enforcement
         16         is made by the governor with the approval of all three
         17         cabinet members subject to confirmation by the Senate.
         18         After advertising nationally and speaking to many
         19         qualified candidates, I'm pleased to announce the
         20         appointment of Guy Tunnell, sheriff of Bay County, for
         21         the position of executive director, beginning October
         22         1st.
         23              I asked the cabinet's approval for my appointment
         24         subject to a background review which has already begun.
         25         And, of course, subject to confirmation by the Florida
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         Senate.
          2              MR. WOOD:  Governor, I just wanted to let you know
          3         that there are citizens here from Bay County who oppose
          4         that appointment based on findings of the federal court
          5         and evidence that show Sheriff Tunnell is not qualified
          6         and I ask for just one minute to be heard.
          7              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Mr. Wood, you can come for one
          8         minute.
          9              GENERAL CRIST:  Governor, while he's coming, would
         10         you entertain a motion?
         11              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Sure.
         12              GENERAL CRIST:  I would move that the cabinet
         13         approve the appointment of Sheriff Guy Tunnell as
         14         commissioner of the FDLE effective October 1, 2003.
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second.
         17         Now, Mr. Wood, if you could, please -- you promise a
         18         minute.
         19              MR. WOOD:  I promise a minute.
         20              I provided to Mr. Gallagher a copy of the letter
         21         that has been submitted.  I asked that that letter be
         22         entered into the record today prior to the vote in this
         23         case.  Attached to that is a federal order by Federal
         24         Judge Steven Mickle which has identified substantial
         25         evidence of racism on the part of Sheriff Tunnell
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         involving an African-American business in Panama City,
          2         Florida.
          3              And I don't believe that this material has before
          4         been considered by whoever was considering the
          5         appointment or, of course, by the members of the
          6         cabinet.  And I think it needs to be considered.
          7              Sheriff Tunnell, according to the evidence and
          8         according to the federal judge, is a blatant racist.
          9         And I believe that this evidence should be made public
         10         and that people should know about this prior to his
         11         appointment.  I know I'm probably outnumbered 200 to
         12         one here.  But in our form of democracy, sometimes one
         13         voice can bring to the attention material that needs to
         14         be considered before important decisions like this are
         15         made.
         16              To have a blatant racist to be the head of Florida
         17         Department of Law Enforcement is wrong and you should
         18         not allow it to happen today.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.  And just for the
         20         record, you've sent me more information, my office more
         21         information.  We've had all of this.  It's not news.
         22         It's not new and it's not newsworthy in my personal
         23         opinion.  All this has been looked at.
         24              MR. WOOD:  You still have refused to order an
         25         investigation in Bay County and that's why we have a
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         problem.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Governor, I'd like to say a
          3         couple of things if I may.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Sure.
          5              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  First of all, let me just
          6         tell you that I think Guy Tunnell is an excellent
          7         sheriff.  I had a chance to spend a little time with
          8         him yesterday after you told us who you had chosen.
          9         And I truly believe that he will make an excellent
         10         person in charge of FDLE.  I would also say that in the
         11         future I would ask that your staff would do the
         12         background check prior to bringing someone up.  I mean,
         13         there's not a sheriff in this room that would hire a
         14         deputy that would not do the background check prior to
         15         naming them.
         16              So I know it's a formality, but it's a very
         17         important formality that we all have to do.  I'm
         18         certainly going to vote for him because I like him and
         19         was very interested in months ago that he would get
         20         this job.  So I'm certainly for him.  I just would like
         21         us to sort of get things in the right order in the
         22         future if we could.  And I know that's not your fault,
         23         it's a staff issue.  But maybe this will have the staff
         24         do it in the right order.  And so therefore, I'd be
         25         most happy to vote in favor of the sheriff.
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I can tell you that Guy Tunnell is
          2         as good a cop that this state has and we've got a ton
          3         of good ones.  And he's a person of unimpeachable
          4         integrity and he has the support -- the broad support
          5         of law enforcement all across the state.  And there has
          6         been proper checking.  It is a formality and I
          7         apologize if you feel uncomfortable about it.  But I am
          8         completely comfortable with my choice and I would urge
          9         a unanimous vote.
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  You have a unanimous vote
         11         because you have a second and I'm certainly agreeing
         12         with it.  And I'm sure the background check will come
         13         in just fine.  But I did feel an obligation to at least
         14         mention that.  So hopefully staff will put it in the
         15         right order in the future.
         16              GENERAL CRIST:  If I might.  I think I need to
         17         give a friendly amendment to my motion to support the
         18         sheriff to add the salary of $124,000.  And look
         19         forward to the unanimous vote.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion.
         21              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I'll second that.
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Second.  Any other discussion?
         23         All in favor say aye.  All opposed.
         24              Sheriff, you want to come up and speak?
         25         Congratulations.
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1              (Applause.)
          2              SHERIFF TUNNELL:  Good morning.  Obviously this is
          3         a very exciting and important day in my life.  Needless
          4         to say, a few of my friends are here today and I'd like
          5         to take the liberty to introduce them.  I think, like
          6         me, although for probably different reasons, they are
          7         having a hard time believing that this is actually
          8         taking place this morning.  So if I may, I'd like to
          9         introduce my lovely wife, Patty.  And I'd like to ask
         10         the other members of my family who are here to stand,
         11         please.
         12              (Applause.)
         13              I'd also like to ask my extended family, many of
         14         the fine men and women of the Bay County Sheriff's
         15         Office, my sheriff's office, who are here this morning
         16         to support me to stand too, please.
         17              (Applause.)
         18              And certainly last but not least, I brought my
         19         heavy handers with me this morning.  A number of my
         20         fellow sheriffs are here and I'd certainly like to
         21         appreciate them for their support and being here.
         22         Thank you.
         23              (Applause.)
         24              Governor, thank you so much for this opportunity
         25         and the confidence you placed in me in making this
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         nomination.  Gentlemen of the cabinet, Commissioner
          2         Bronson, Treasurer Gallagher, General Crist, thank you
          3         too for your support.  I look so forward to working
          4         with you, gentlemen, and your staffs, your respective
          5         staffs in the job that has to be done.
          6              Obviously my predecessor, recently retired
          7         Commissioner Tim Moore of the FDLE, is a class act.  A
          8         tremendous leader, proven leader.  Definitely I've said
          9         this, if I've said it once, I've said it a hundred
         10         times in the last 48 hours, his shoes, as big as my
         11         feet are, will be difficult to fill.  But I pledge to
         12         you, along with the fine men and women of the FDLE, to
         13         endeavor to do the very best job that I can, to raise
         14         the standard for public safety for the citizens and the
         15         visitors of the great state of Florida.  God bless you
         16         and thank you so much.
         17              (Applause.)
         18              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Treasurer?
         19              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Let me mention that this is
         20         the first time in a long time that we've had a head of
         21         FDLE that has come -- actually, the first time ever, I
         22         think, that's actually come from the Florida sheriffs
         23         and with the support of the Florida sheriffs.  And I'm
         24         thrilled that you chose one of the Florida sheriffs
         25         because there's always been a little bit of contention
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         between the two and I think this is going to eliminate
          2         that.  And, in fact, I don't think, I know it will.  I
          3         think that's a really good thing for law enforcement in
          4         Florida.  And I know Guy is going to do a great job in
          5         having a good relationship with his whole team and the
          6         different sheriffs throughout the state.  That's going
          7         to be a really good thing for Florida law enforcement
          8         and for the people of Florida.
          9              I know that they'll also work with our respective
         10         agencies.  You have quite a few law enforcement that
         11         work in different -- for your secretaries, Commissioner
         12         Bronson does, I do.  Charlie, you have some, I think,
         13         sworn deputies that do certain things.  So it's going
         14         to be good for all of us.  So you've made an excellent
         15         choice.  We thank you.  I know the sheriffs, they
         16         wouldn't be here in the large quantity if they didn't
         17         fully agree to that.  So I thank you for the choice you
         18         made.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, Tom.  And I'd also like
         20         to thank Darryl McLaughlin for doing a great job in the
         21         interim.  FDLE is a great organization with really
         22         highly trained, capable people.  And Darryl has done a
         23         fine job in these months and I have enormous respect
         24         for him as well.  So I'm excited about this.
         25              Next we have a presentation for -- from the
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         Florida Reliability Coordinating Council.  Ken Wiley is
          2         here.  And Lila Jaber who's the chairman of the PSC.
          3              Sheriffs, you don't want to stick around and hear
          4         about how our grid is much better than the rest of the
          5         country?
          6              (Laughter.)
          7              Apparently not.  It's a riveting subject.  I'm
          8         just shocked that you want to leave.
          9              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I think the celebration is
         10         starting now.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  This is an important subject given
         12         what happened with the blackout.  I don't know if
         13         anybody has seen the satellite picture of the blackout
         14         night where there was a chunk, a third or maybe a fifth
         15         of the country, almost in a triangle form that was
         16         totally black.  And the rest of, thankfully, Florida,
         17         was totally lit.  So it's important to get a review, I
         18         think, of where we stand and why is Florida a little
         19         bit different than Ohio.
         20              MS. JABER:  Thank you, Governor Bush and members
         21         of the cabinet.  We appreciate the invitation to be
         22         here certainly.  And I think the request is timely.
         23         And we hope that between Ken and I we can give the
         24         appropriate assurances and be available to answer
         25         whatever questions you may have.  Recognizing the
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
          1         amount of work you have to do after this, we will keep
          2         our comments brief.
          3              I wanted to try to answer the obvious question
          4         everyone has, Can the kind of blackout that the
          5         northeast encountered be possible for Florida.  And
          6         while Ken and I are not going to say that anything is
          7         100 percent reliable or 100 percent guaranteed, I think
          8         that there are, as the governor mentioned, some factors
          9         that exist within the state that make it far less
         10         likely for the kind of blackout that the northeast
         11         experienced to occur in Florida.
         12              The first and perhaps the most important factor to
         13         point out is just the very geography of the state of
         14         Florida.  We are a peninsular state which means quite
         15         frankly that our import capability from other states is
         16         limited.  We are connected to what's called the eastern
         17         inner connection grid by a series of transmission lines
         18         into Georgia.  But the reality is we only have an
         19         8 percent import capability in the very optimal
         20         conditions and that equates to about 3600 megawatts.
         21              Because of that, Florida has had to be
         22         self-sufficient, self-generating.  And there is a
         23         reasoned, incremental, very thoughtful approach to
         24         understanding how much generation the state needs.  And
         25         we do that as an organization, as the commission, and
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          1         with conjunction of and the assistance of the
          2         utilities, DEP, and the Florida Reliability Council, by
          3         looking at a ten-year plan that we require the
          4         companies to submit every year.  And that ten-year plan
          5         gives us not only the demands and the generation
          6         facilities for the year that we're looking at, but also
          7         ten years out in the future.
          8              That's a very thoughtful approach to understanding
          9         population growth, impact on electricity from other
         10         factors such as industry, just people moving to Florida
         11         generally.  And we look at the ten-year site plans
         12         every year.  We have, the Florida PSC, has a statutory
         13         authority to require improvements or construction based
         14         on whether we believe the plan is adequate.
         15              In addition to that, but related to those two
         16         topics, is the notion that Florida utilities have
         17         agreed to a 20 percent reserve margin, an excess
         18         capacity that goes to serve load during peak times.
         19         Now the national normal is 15 percent.  But Florida
         20         utilities that contribute to 75 percent of the state's
         21         electric needs, Florida Power & Light, Progress Energy
         22         Florida and TECO, have agreed to a 20 percent reserve
         23         margin.
         24              The third point, but also equally important,
         25         relates to the transmission infrastructure.  The
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          1         Florida companies have roughly 6,700 circuit miles of
          2         transmission capacity and these are 230 kv lines or
          3         higher transmission lines according to the Florida
          4         Reliability Council load and resource plan.  Peninsular
          5         utilities -- those are the three largest Florida
          6         utilities -- are planning to add another 500 circuit
          7         miles of high capacity kv lines over the next ten
          8         years.  The PSC recently approved for Florida Power &
          9         Light a 240 kv line that's making its way to the
         10         governor and cabinet.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is that -- what percentage
         12         increase is that in terms of our capacity that's being
         13         planned for the next ten years?
         14              MS. JABER:  I don't know what the percentage
         15         increase would be, Governor.  We can certainly look
         16         that up and get back to you.  But that in and of
         17         itself, Governor, is probably not the complete picture.
         18         What I did yesterday, to try to understand more of our
         19         transmission infrastructure upgrades, I asked FP&L to
         20         give me just a rough estimate of what they've spent in
         21         the last couple of years on upgrades and that will give
         22         us a better picture.
         23              FP&L has invested $420 million the last four years
         24         on transmission facilities.  The next four years, they
         25         expect to spend another 750 million.
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          1              Gulf Power, I asked the same question.  And for
          2         the year 2000 they spent 180 million.  And for 2002
          3         they spent 37 million.  These are important numbers
          4         because if you recall reading some of the fallout from
          5         the blackout in the northeast, the accusations are that
          6         the companies are not spending any money on upgrades
          7         and infrastructure construction.  So our companies are
          8         doing both.  Certainly we'll get back to you in terms
          9         of what that adds in percentage numbers to capacity.
         10              Finally, complicated systems like power grids,
         11         it's very, very important to design a system where a
         12         single disturbance won't affect the rest of the
         13         customers that are served by other Florida companies.
         14         This has been tested in Florida just last year.  JEA
         15         had a major power outage in their area.  The Florida
         16         Reliability Council, again, with the assistance of the
         17         Florida investor-owned utilities, were able to spot
         18         that quickly.  They shut JEA down in terms of access to
         19         the grid and the problem was isolated to that area
         20         alone and no other customer in the Florida area saw any
         21         effect of the outage.
         22              Just to give you an idea of generation capacity
         23         added, Governor, similar to the question you just asked
         24         on transmission, the Florida PSC in the year 2002, we
         25         approved an additional 2700 megawatts of generation
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          1         capacity.  And the governor and cabinet sitting as the
          2         siting board approved those.
          3              And the year before that we approved collectively
          4         almost 1800 megawatts and we intend to keep looking at
          5         those costs and those constructions prudently, again,
          6         in the context of a planning process which we are
          7         finding out other states really don't have.
          8              With that, I'm going to introduce Ken Wiley from
          9         the Florida Reliability Coordinating Council for a more
         10         detailed presentation.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good morning.
         12              MR. WILEY:  Good morning, Governor and Cabinet.
         13         Thank you, Chairman Jaber.  The fact that Lila and I
         14         are standing here together at the podium talking to you
         15         about reliability in this state is indicative of the
         16         fact that this industry and the Florida Public Service
         17         Commission have been going hand in hand over the past
         18         two to three decades worrying about and watching out
         19         for the reliability of the transmission system in this
         20         state.
         21              I know the question in the forefront of our mind
         22         here today is, Can this happen in Florida?  And as Lila
         23         indicated, we're not going to say it never can, but I'm
         24         hoping to give you some assurances today that we at the
         25         Florida Reliability Coordinating Council and the Public
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          1         Service Commission have been diligent and are diligent
          2         in looking after this affair.
          3              First, let me explain who the Florida Reliability
          4         Coordinating Council is.  Acronym is FRCC.  It's all
          5         the players that utilize the electric transmission grid
          6         in peninsular Florida.  We have 29 members' companies.
          7         We're a non-profit corporation.  Our membership
          8         includes all the investor-owned utilities, the
          9         municipal utilities, the electric co-ops, the power
         10         marketers and generators, independent generators.
         11              We have existed in one form or the other for four
         12         decades.  Our responsibility is primarily to set the
         13         reliability standards for the transmission grid in the
         14         state and to set the policies and procedures that all
         15         users of that grid must follow whenever they operate in
         16         peninsular Florida.  We have an extremely close
         17         relationship to the commission as you're aware.  They
         18         have the statutorial responsibility over reliability.
         19              One way that they -- we and they work together is
         20         that their staff participate in the day-to-day type
         21         activities when we're discussing reliability and
         22         operating matters in this state.  They don't vote, but
         23         they certainly have their input and they hear what
         24         we're doing and we have very close coordination with
         25         the commission staff.
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          1              You've probably read in the news lately that in
          2         Congress there's a big push for Congress to enact some
          3         national reliability legislation.  That's one of the
          4         titles in the energy bill that is now in the conference
          5         committee in Congress.
          6                The purpose of the reliability section is to
          7         empower a national organization known as North American
          8         Electric Reliability Council -- you've read that in the
          9         news, NERC is the acronym -- with the ability to set
         10         the standards and to have the mandatory capability to
         11         enforce the compliance with those reliability
         12         standards.
         13              The enforcement mechanism that they would utilize
         14         is to delegate to the ten regions such as the FRCC in
         15         North America the power to enforce the particular --
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Doesn't that bill also require us
         17         as taxpayers to subsidize in essence the utility
         18         companies in areas of the country where they've not
         19         made the same kind of investment in capacity and
         20         transmission lines?
         21              MR. WILEY:  I'm speaking specifically to the
         22         reliability title.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I'm speaking about since we
         24         invest -- you-all have invested in capacity that goes
         25         into the rate base and transmission line investments
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          1         have kept pace in our state -- contrary to what
          2         happened in other places -- we've paid for that
          3         investment as ratepayers and now the solution to do
          4         something is that we all, and as a nation, are now
          5         going to have to pay for the places where that
          6         investment didn't take place.
          7              MS. JABER:  Governor Bush, there are aspects of
          8         the bill that absolutely the Florida Public Service
          9         Commission has sent comments to the Florida delegation
         10         and other members of Congress that have participated in
         11         that bill.  And absolutely, you're right, there are
         12         places where it calls for cost shifting.  We've opposed
         13         that.  We've sent alternative language.
         14              With regard to the reliability part of the
         15         legislation, the Florida PSC has said, We have to
         16         preserve our state jurisdiction in that regard.  While
         17         the goals are admirable with regard to a national
         18         reliability standard, you have to defer to the state's
         19         jurisdiction because quite frankly, we can impose
         20         stricter standards and more efficiently.
         21              So absolutely, it's not a perfect bill.  We
         22         understand that some parts of the bill may be
         23         compromised out.  We're anxiously awaiting to see what
         24         parts.
         25              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.
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          1              MR. WILEY:  Actually, there's been some discussion
          2         of taking the reliability section of the bill and
          3         pulling it out of the energy bill and passing it
          4         separately.  But at this point there's a lot of
          5         speculation of whether or not that will happen.  And
          6         certainly the FRCC has been fully supportive of the
          7         reliability part of the energy bill and that's the only
          8         thing that we get involved in.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  But, I mean, we already have it.
         10         So why would you want to federalize something that we
         11         already do and we do apparently well enough to avoid
         12         the problems that the midwest and the mid Atlantic
         13         states faced?
         14              MR. WILEY:  Well, I'm hoping the remainder of my
         15         discussion here will tend to answer that question,
         16         Governor.  But we certainly do not want anything to
         17         happen at the national level that preempts Florida.
         18              As a matter of fact, I've personally been involved
         19         in drafting that national legislation just for the
         20         reliability part of it and we have insisted and insured
         21         that no preemption of state's authority, such as we
         22         have in Florida, would ever happen.
         23              The FRCC region does not cover the entire state of
         24         Florida.  It covers the peninsula.  The area over in
         25         the Panhandle which is where a few co-ops and Gulf
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          1         Power serve are a part of the Southern Company which is
          2         another reliability region.  And electrically, they're
          3         just not tightly tied to the peninsula.  They are very
          4         tightly tied to the north.  And that's why they're not
          5         a part of the FRCC.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Can I just simplify this?
          7              MR. WILEY:  Yes, sir.
          8              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Tell me if I'm wrong.  If we
          9         continue to invest in capacity and transmission
         10         infrastructure at a rate that is equal to the growth
         11         and demand which continues to be a significant issue,
         12         and if we import roughly 5 percent or less of our
         13         energy from the north of us through transmission lines,
         14         in other words, we're taking care of, at any given
         15         time, 95 percent of our needs, and if we have a
         16         120 percent capacity to peak load demand ratio and if
         17         we keep doing that, we're not going to have a problem
         18         like Ohio had.  That's -- I just want someone to
         19         confirm that to give people peace of mind in Polk
         20         County.  I'm really worried about Polk County right
         21         now.
         22              (Laughter.)
         23              (Applause.)
         24              GOVERNOR BUSH:  What I'm worried about, these
         25         girls have been sitting in a very uncomfortable
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          1         position for now over an hour.  Is that --
          2              MS. JABER:  Governor, the only thing I would add,
          3         because it's certainly a message we all collectively
          4         want to get out is I would add the need to continue
          5         proactive conservation measures to reduce that level of
          6         demand.  That's the only thing I would add to your
          7         statement.  But you're absolutely correct.  We're doing
          8         it right.  We need to do the conservation piece better.
          9         But certainly the projections are there and taken care
         10         of by these responsible utilities.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  And the second question is, Do we
         12         have one of the issues that exist in -- up north is
         13         that it is increasingly difficult to site transmission
         14         line capacity and I would imagine it's fairly difficult
         15         here.  I mean, as I fly over the state, which I do
         16         three or four times a day -- a week, you know, where
         17         these transmission lines exist typically go through
         18         wild Florida.  And I don't know, had we not sited those
         19         a long time ago how easy it would be to do it now.
         20              So the other question is, Even if we have the will
         21         and we have the system and we have, you know, a
         22         commitment to this, are we focused on siting of
         23         transmission lines to maintain the grid.
         24              MR. WILEY:  Well, the short answer is yes we are.
         25         However, subject to the environmental and the siting
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          1         problems that we have and one of the concerns that I
          2         have right now is that with this recent blackout, I
          3         think we're going to see a very big new push at the
          4         federal level to have FERC have the siting capability
          5         for transmission lines that cross state lines.
          6              Now my opinion is we need to watch out for that
          7         kind of language at the national level to ensure that
          8         any type of legislation in Congress does not preempt
          9         the transmission line siting laws that we have in this
         10         state because they have been working.  I think going
         11         forward they're going to need to be tweaked, however.
         12         Because those things were written -- those laws were
         13         written back in 1974 or five and I think that one of
         14         these days when we determine that a transmission line
         15         that needs to be built for reliability purposes, and
         16         generally those are long distance lines, we're going to
         17         find it extremely hard to cross a lot of lands, a lot
         18         of state-owned lands which you all control.  And I
         19         think that we're going to need some legislation
         20         eventually to recognize a more streamlined transmission
         21         line siting act when it's only for the purpose of
         22         liability.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Commissioner Bronson and then
         24         General Crist.
         25              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Thank you, Governor.  One
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          1         of the issues that put me at odds as chairman of
          2         natural resources in the Florida senate with some of
          3         the environmental groups that were just so adamantly
          4         against allowing transmission lines to go over state
          5         lands was you can still have a clean power source and
          6         protect the environment.
          7              But the point of buying that land, even though it
          8         was environmental and to have that much land available
          9         for the public hopefully one day to all go to, was that
         10         that land should never be discounted for the general
         11         good of the public if power lines need to go there to
         12         support the infrastructure of the state of Florida
         13         which includes businesses, homes, and schools, that we
         14         should leave open the opportunity, if it arises, under
         15         the right conditions to put those transmission lines
         16         where needs be to support the public.
         17              And it put me at odds with some people, but I felt
         18         like we were looking at a head-on train wreck if we
         19         didn't at least leave the opportunity open.  And I hope
         20         the Legislature will maintain that thought pattern when
         21         it comes to those issues.
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  General?
         23              GENERAL CRIST:  Yeah, I just had a couple of
         24         questions.  Is there any consensus as to what caused
         25         the blackout in the northeast and the midwest?
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          1              MR. WILEY:  At this point it's still under
          2         investigation.  I was on a conference call with some of
          3         my peers yesterday and they just have not found -- they
          4         are not ready to discuss exactly what the cause was and
          5         the sequence of events.  It's truly a very complicated
          6         matter to go back and get all of these data points that
          7         they have and reconstruct the sequence of events.  We
          8         have done that before, as you're aware, many, many
          9         years ago, thank goodness.
         10              So I expect by Friday of this week that nationally
         11         we're going to have a pretty good idea of what caused
         12         and what the sequence of events are.
         13              GENERAL CRIST:  And, you know, the obvious reason
         14         for the question is to try to find out what the cause
         15         was so we might be able to avoid it for our citizens.
         16              I guess secondly, I've been informed that there
         17         are two primary lines that bring energy from outside of
         18         Florida, one near Jacksonville, one in the panhandle
         19         area.
         20              MR. WILEY:  Yes, sir.
         21              GENERAL CRIST:  Would it be at all advantageous to
         22         extend that further or do we produce enough energy
         23         within the state that is sufficient?
         24              MR. WILEY:  I would like to comment on your first
         25         question and perhaps that will answer your second one.
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          1              What happened in the northeast, some of what
          2         happened in the northeast, will not happen in Florida.
          3         And the reason is Florida is a peninsula.  We have
          4         electrical connections just to the north.  We're able
          5         to, through our control systems, we're able to control
          6         the power that comes into this peninsula and the power
          7         we ship out.  We have total control across our
          8         boundary.
          9              When you get up in the middle, in the eastern
         10         inner connection or in the midwest, northeast, you have
         11         a Florida region -- you know, a region sitting here
         12         with other regions on all four sides as an example,
         13         even up through Canada.  And sometimes you'll have one
         14         region shipping to a noncontiguous region and the power
         15         flow goes through parties that are not -- another
         16         party, a third party who is not part of that
         17         transaction.  Well, that middle party, while it has
         18         excellent control of its region, it does -- it has less
         19         control over through-flows that other regions push
         20         through it.
         21              GOVERNOR BUSH:  So what percentage of energy would
         22         be -- I mean, if we're at five percent that flows from
         23         the grid north of us, a state like Ohio or New York,
         24         what percentage of their electricity is interdependent
         25         upon this web that exists?
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          1              MR. WILEY:  Well, it's not necessarily the
          2         dependency upon other capacity.  It's this aspect of
          3         other people sending power through their region to
          4         another region that has the ability to overload their
          5         facilities.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, we're saying the same thing.
          7         I mean, it's the interdependence is what creates the
          8         vulnerability.
          9              MR. WILEY:  That's correct.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I mean, we're blessed to live in a
         11         peninsula for all sorts of reasons, but this one is one
         12         that no one really thought of until ten days ago when
         13         the blackout occurred.  This gives us much more safety.
         14              And I don't know, Lila, it's something you may
         15         want to look at, to do a review on, is the economic
         16         development message that we can -- I mean, I hate to
         17         take advantage of the misfortune of others but this is
         18         a huge selling point for businesses that have to have
         19         reliable sources of consistent energy, high-quality and
         20         consistent energy for their business process, or
         21         manufacturing process.  I'd like to know what types of
         22         industries are most dependent upon this stability
         23         because it will go out and shamelessly promote the
         24         state.
         25              MS. JABER:  Absolutely, Governor.  We'd be
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          1         remissent (sic) in not mentioning one other selling
          2         factor for the state which is on top of being a
          3         self-generating state and approving these plants for
          4         construction, we've managed to maintain some of the
          5         lowest rates in the southeast region.  Our average is
          6         7 cents per kilowatt hour.  And in terms of attracting
          7         the industry and frankly residential consumers, that's
          8         a very good electric rate with a very good reliable
          9         system.
         10              GENERAL CRIST:  Do we need to be approving any
         11         more plants?
         12              MS. JABER:  We have an RFP that's pending that we
         13         expect next summer.  So the answer to your question is
         14         yes, to meet ongoing demand, absolutely we'll be
         15         looking at new plants.  The Florida PSC approved a
         16         brand-new competitive bidding rule last year that we
         17         look forward to its implementation with this new RFP
         18         and that may bring fuel diversity.  We're hoping it
         19         attracts fuel diversity.  So the short answer to your
         20         question is yes.
         21              GENERAL CRIST:  We're growing like a weed.
         22              MS. JABER:  We are growing like a weed.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  We're looking at renewable energy
         24         sources as well.  We have some exciting initiatives
         25         hopefully that will become more public in the next few
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          1         months.  So it's good to be in Florida.
          2              MS. JABER:  It's good to be in Florida.
          3              (Applause.)
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  That will be the last time you
          5         guys get an applause, by the way.
          6              (Laughter.)
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                  STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  State Board of Administration.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes.
          3              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded without
          5         objection.  The item passes.
          6              Item 2.
          7              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Request for approval of fiscal
          8         sufficiency of amount not exceeding 300,000,000 State
          9         of Florida, full faith and credit, Department of
         10         Transportation, right-of-way acquisition and bridge
         11         construction bonds, series 2003A.
         12              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion.
         13              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         15         objection, the item passes.
         16              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Request approval of fiscal
         17         sufficiency of an amount not exceeding 16,800,000 State
         18         of Florida, Florida Education System, Florida State
         19         University parking facility revenue bonds, series
         20         2003B.
         21              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         24         objection, the item passes.
         25              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Request for approval of fiscal
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                  STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION, August 26, 2003
          1         sufficiency of an amount not exceeding 180,000,000
          2         State of Florida, Department of Environmental
          3         Protection --
          4              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on four.
          5              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          7         objection, the item passes.
          8              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Request approval of fiscal
          9         sufficiency (sic) of an amount not exceeding 7,500,000
         10         tax exempt and 2,000,000 taxable Florida Housing
         11         Finance Corporation multifamily mortgage revenue bonds,
         12         2003 series.
         13              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.
         14              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         16         objection, the item passes.
         17              MR. STIPANOVICH:  That's it, Governor.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  You have Item 6.
         19              MR. STIPANOVICH:  Oh, I'm sorry.
         20              Request approval of fiscal determination of
         21         amounts not exceeding 16,300,000 tax exempt and
         22         1,945,000, taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation
         23         multifamily mortgage revenue --
         24              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on six.
         25              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
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                  STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          2         objection, the item passes.
          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Thank you, Coleman.
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                    DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Division of Bond Finance.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes from
          3         August 12th.
          4              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          6         objection, Item 1 passes.
          7              MR. WATKINS:  Item 2 is a resolution authorizing
          8         the issuance and competitive sale of up to $180,000,000
          9         in Florida Forever Refunding Bonds.
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on two.
         11              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         13         objection, the item passes.
         14              MR. WATKINS:  Item 3 is a resolution authorizing
         15         the competitive sale of up to $300,000,000 in
         16         right-of-way acquisition bonds for the Department of
         17         Transportation.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on three.
         19              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         21         objection, the item passes.
         22              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 4 is a resolution
         23         authorizing the competitive sale of up to $16.8 million
         24         in parking facility revenue bonds for Florida State
         25         University.
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                    DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE, August 26, 2003
          1              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          4         objection, the item passes.
          5              MR. WATKINS:  Item No. 5 is a resolution
          6         authorizing the distribution of an RFP for underwriters
          7         and bond council --
          8              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on 5.
          9              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second.
         11         Any discussion on this?  Without objection, the item
         12         passes.
         13              MR. WATKINS:  Item 6 is a report of award on the
         14         competitive sale of $200 million in PECO bonds.  The
         15         bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a true interest
         16         cost of 4.83 percent.
         17              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on 6.
         18              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         20         objection, the item passes.
         21              Ben, just for all the taxpayers out in the room,
         22         and everyone here is one, how much money did we just
         23         obligate the State for in a matter of two minutes, ten
         24         seconds?  About 600 --
         25              MR. WATKINS:  316 -- well, the refunding -- I'm
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                    DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE, August 26, 2003
          1         not counting the refunding because that saves us money.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  You got Item 6, that counts.  Or
          3         is that a refunding?
          4              MR. WATKINS:  Well, that was a report of award.
          5         So just a rough estimate, Governor, about $750 million.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.
          7              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Million here, million there.
          8              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, Ben.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Department of Revenue.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes from
          3         June 26th.
          4              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second.
          6         Without objection, Item 1 passes.
          7              DR. ZINGALE:  Item No. 2 is a rule that addresses
          8         the forms and procedures for the Department's rewards
          9         program.  Request approval.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is there a motion?
         11              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on two.
         12              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         14         objection, Item 2 passes.
         15              DR. ZINGALE:  Item No. 3 provides definition
         16         during the course of an audit for adequate records and
         17         voluminous records.  These definitions afford us an
         18         opportunity to aid a taxpayer by doing statistical
         19         sampling and collecting the data.  Request approval.
         20              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on three.
         21              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         23         objection, the item passes.
         24              DR. ZINGALE:  Item No. 4 concerns rules dealing
         25         with 2002 and 2003 legislative changes that implement
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         the Department's expanded EFT and EDI program.  Request
          2         approval.
          3              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 4.
          4              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          6         objection, the item passes.
          7              DR. ZINGALE:  Item No. 5 is a very
          8         taxpayer-friendly rule.  Going to take a little bit
          9         more time than the previous ones have.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Do you have speakers on this one
         11         too?
         12              DR. ZINGALE:  We have two speakers.  I'm going to
         13         give about a quick five-minute historical overview.
         14         The two speakers will be introduced.  We have gotten an
         15         agreement from a larger group of people to defer their
         16         time to those two speakers.  We've kind of -- but it's
         17         your discretion -- requested them to limit their time
         18         to five minutes apiece.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Very good.
         20              DR. ZINGALE:  There's one amendment on the table
         21         that they've agreed to that we can take up and then you
         22         can choose to go forward or not with the rule.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.
         24              DR. ZINGALE:  The quick history, property
         25         appraisers have a daunting job every year to value
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         every parcel of property in the state of Florida.  The
          2         result of that year-long work ends approximately
          3         August 24th with the issuing of a trim notice to every
          4         taxpayer telling that taxpayer what the value that a
          5         property appraiser has put on that property.
          6              The taxpayer, upon receiving that notice of
          7         assessment, has the right to go in front of the value
          8         adjustment board to appeal that assessment.  Value
          9         adjustment boards are made up of three county
         10         commissioners and two school board members acting as a
         11         board.  The vast majority of the property appraisers
         12         have special master -- or value adjustment boards have
         13         special masters to help them with that deliberation.
         14              Prior to the 2002 legislative session, the
         15         exchange of information between a taxpayer and the
         16         property appraiser in front of that board was kind of
         17         one-sided.  The property appraiser had the right to
         18         compel a taxpayer to reveal their evidence prior to the
         19         hearing but the taxpayer didn't have the right to
         20         compel the property appraiser to reveal their evidence
         21         prior to the meeting.
         22              So in the 2002 legislative session, the
         23         legislators tried to balance that fairness and they
         24         passed a statute that required the taxpayer ten days
         25         prior to the hearing to reveal to the property
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         appraiser the evidence that was going to support the
          2         contention that the assessment was too high.  And five
          3         days upon -- after that, upon the property appraiser
          4         receiving that, the property appraiser would reveal the
          5         year-long work product that the property appraiser went
          6         through and exchange that information with the taxpayer
          7         so that both sides would see what each was going to
          8         bring in front of the value adjustment board prior to
          9         the value adjustment board meeting.
         10              That went into effect in 2002.  We started going
         11         through the rule promulgation process that fall and
         12         into the late winter, if you want to call that winter
         13         here in Florida.  A number of property appraisers were
         14         concerned with the length of time to respond.  So the
         15         Department, although we had gotten to this stage once
         16         before, requested the deferral of that item to give the
         17         property appraisers a chance to go in front of the
         18         Legislature to amend the law itself to provide for some
         19         extension or granting of time in those circumstances.
         20              Those attempts were unsuccessful in the 2003
         21         legislation, legislative session.  So we're at the
         22         stage again of bringing rules.  And the primary purpose
         23         of our rule is simply to provide standard procedures
         24         for every county and every property appraiser's
         25         situation to deal with this.  There's primarily four
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         fairly straightforward things in here.
          2              One isn't in controversy which is a description of
          3         what is the evidence that needs to be exchanged.  The
          4         second is the method that the information is exchanged.
          5         Is it going to be fax, it is going to be E-mail, is it
          6         going to be mail.  And if the two parties can agree on
          7         it, can that take place.  And what do you do if the two
          8         parties don't agree on how that information should be
          9         exchanged.
         10              The third deals -- and this is probably one of the
         11         more controversial areas -- deals with the definition
         12         of what a day is.  Is it a calendar day?  Is it a
         13         working day?  Is it some way we can expand the
         14         classification of what a day is beyond what the
         15         statutes say?  The Department, in this rule, adopted
         16         the APA model rule for counting a day.  If it's less
         17         than seven days, then it's a working day and you don't
         18         get penalized by the weekend.  If it's greater than
         19         seven days, then it's a straight calendar day.  We
         20         believe that definition, following the APA model rule,
         21         affords both of the parties the maximum extent of days
         22         allowed by the law.
         23              And lastly, there is a right on the part of both
         24         parties to explicitly, if you're a taxpayer, request a
         25         deferral.  If this information exchange doesn't take
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         place sufficiently or not correctly or there are some
          2         problems with it, the taxpayer has the right to defer
          3         the VAB hearing one time.  And it's implied that the
          4         property appraiser can request the VAB board to do an
          5         extension of one time.
          6              So it's a good government thing.  We're trying to
          7         get information in front of both parties prior to a
          8         hearing.  It's meant to provide for, in all honesty, an
          9         efficient resolution of a lot of these items instead of
         10         having to go in front of the VAB.  If the first time
         11         you ever saw the data was when you sat down in front of
         12         the VAB, you're going to wait until the end.  And we --
         13         there is some hope that a number of these will be
         14         settled.  But that's the highlights.
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I have a question.
         16              DR. ZINGALE:  Sure.
         17              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  It's my understanding, and I
         18         don't disagree with what the law is trying to do or the
         19         rule except that it's -- if you would just sort of
         20         touch base with me on -- some of the larger counties
         21         seem to have a problem with these time limits.  Could
         22         you discuss that a little bit?
         23              DR. ZINGALE:  It's only one large county that
         24         we're aware of.  During the course of the year or so
         25         deliberations, I think a lot of the problems had been
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         worked out.  But in a 12-month period of time, there's
          2         71,000 appeals statewide.  Two counties, Dade and
          3         Broward, have 44,000 of those 71,000 appeals.
          4         Twenty-two in Dade and 22 in Broward.
          5              A lot of counties have 1,000, 23, 56 appeals, and
          6         do it in a very concentrated period of time.  It's my
          7         understanding that Dade does it 12 months out of the
          8         year.  It's a year-round process.
          9              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I'm sure -- I hope it is.
         10         They couldn't do it in 30 days.
         11              DR. ZINGALE:  And so they expressed concern.  And
         12         I think that concern was expressed at the last
         13         legislative session.  There were bills flying around to
         14         repeal this.  There were bills flying around to exempt
         15         a county that had a certain size.  There were bills
         16         flying around to try to expand the number of days but
         17         none of them were passed.  So we are left with the
         18         basic law.
         19              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  We at the last session ended
         20         up with a very low number of bills actually getting
         21         through the process.  That's probably good as you look
         22         at things.  But it was a good 200 or maybe even 300
         23         less than what normally would pass in a session which
         24         includes little fixes of all kinds of things.  So I
         25         don't know whether that means something or doesn't mean
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         something.
          2              But the issue is, What do we do -- I mean, let's
          3         say Dade and Broward, do we want to put something on
          4         them that they can't do?
          5              DR. ZINGALE:  I talked to Broward this morning.
          6         They have no problem meeting their requirements.  Dade
          7         has a problem and they can express them to you.  There
          8         is an awful lot in this rule that is good.  There is
          9         maybe that one narrow piece.  I don't think anybody
         10         argues that exchanging information prior to a
         11         hearing --
         12              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  No, I think it's a good --
         13              DR. ZINGALE:  -- know what that is.  It's a good
         14         positive thing.  You can always -- and these are your
         15         choices -- you can always move this rule forward so
         16         that the majority of it goes -- all of it goes forward.
         17         You can always amend this rule down the road in terms
         18         of it.  You're in the cycle right now.  August 25th has
         19         occurred.  The notices have been mailed out.  The
         20         formal appeal process starts now.  This is the second
         21         year since the legislation passed --
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  When does the rule take
         23         effect?  Isn't it 90 days or something?  21 days for
         24         appeal?
         25              DR. ZINGALE:  If it's not amended today, 21 days.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         If it's amended today, it's 40 days.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  But say Dade wants to
          3         challenge it, then the whole thing gets held up.
          4              DR. ZINGALE:  Well, they wouldn't challenge it.
          5         It would go forward if you passed it today.  They can
          6         come back and try to work with us to amend it.  But I
          7         think we have a hard time amending in a rule something
          8         that exceeds legislative authority.  There were a
          9         couple of questions and inquiries of APA, you know, the
         10         oversight process, JAPC, to try to do some of that
         11         during this last year and we were expressly told by the
         12         committee that we couldn't in this rule.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Commissioner.
         14              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Governor, members, one of
         15         the things that came up to me last year and of course
         16         it's been over a number of years, it wasn't just last
         17         year.  But when we change the fact that through
         18         legislation that those who are going to claim
         19         agriculture exemption must claim on a yearly basis, not
         20         expect the tax assessor to automatically send out the
         21         fact that your land has been assessed, agriculture
         22         value and so forth.  There was great discussion and
         23         wringing of hands to the fact that there were a few
         24         assessors that refused to basically work with -- and
         25         I'm only talking about a few -- that would not work
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         with landowners under those circumstances and refused
          2         to give legitimate agriculture assessments in some
          3         cases, which means they're going to be arguing about
          4         that from now on.  Whether it's to the adjustment
          5         board, whether it goes to court after the adjustment
          6         board, that's going to be a big factor here.
          7              And the other issue that was important to me was
          8         whether you're talking about calendar days or workdays.
          9         Try to contact somebody in any government office on a
         10         Saturday and Sunday.  The chances are you're not going
         11         to get in touch with them, and holidays.  But to make
         12         it to where it's fair enough to the assessors that have
         13         to do this work based on the law and fair enough to the
         14         taxpayer who is going to have to pay it one way or
         15         another, whether it's the one that was assessed or the
         16         argumentative side of whether they should receive some
         17         type of exemption or not.
         18              This thing, hopefully, and I understand there has
         19         been some agreement on at least some version of this,
         20         this thing has gone on now, we deferred it, what, in
         21         January, and it's been going on.  It's been through the
         22         legislative process more than once, more than once
         23         while I was in the Legislature.  So there has to be at
         24         some point in time the end of the road here where we
         25         make a decision on what is the most fair for both sides
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         here to get this worked out.
          2              So I think delaying it again, if that's what the
          3         issue is, is not going to get us any further down the
          4         road than we've ever been.  It's better to go ahead and
          5         make a decision and then work on that decision if we
          6         have to.
          7              DR. ZINGALE:  One quick comment, then I'd like to
          8         introduce the speakers with your permission.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Please.  Yes.
         10              DR. ZINGALE:  The quick comment is, this is in
         11         front of a value adjustment board that has the ability,
         12         upon facts being presented to them or lack of facts
         13         being presented to them, to delay the meeting.  I mean,
         14         if there is overwhelming evidence that can be presented
         15         to a VAB that says, Please reschedule, the taxpayer has
         16         the right to do that automatically one time, so that if
         17         this data hadn't been ready in the appropriate form and
         18         format or hadn't been exchanged in the right way, can
         19         be delayed and rescheduled.
         20              Same thing from a property appraiser's standpoint
         21         if they have to make the case in front of the VAB.  But
         22         that is an appeal that's fairly easy to make in terms
         23         of presenting evidence.  And the law is really saying
         24         it's their responsibility to determine what that fair
         25         hearing should be like.  And I believe they have a
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         vested interest in wanting to hear both sides hear the
          2         accurate information in front of them.  So there are
          3         relief valves.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any other questions?  Let's hear
          5         the speakers.
          6              DR. ZINGALE:  The two speakers, the first one is
          7         Tom Logue who is an attorney from Dade County Property
          8         Appraiser's Office and he's going to talk to you about
          9         22,000 VAB appeals.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good morning.
         11              MR. LOGUE:  Good morning, Governor Bush.  It's a
         12         pleasure to see you, we've met before, and members of
         13         this cabinet.  My name is Tom Logue.  I'm assistant
         14         county attorney.  Joel Robbins, the property appraiser
         15         of Dade County, could not be here because his
         16         mother-in-law died.  But I have with me Frank Jacobs,
         17         the chief appraiser, if you have any questions.  I've
         18         come all the way from beautiful south Florida on the
         19         other side of this beautiful peninsula to ask you a big
         20         favor and that is if you could extend this -- allow us
         21         to have discussions for another two weeks.  And I'll
         22         tell you why I'm asking that.  Dade County has a big
         23         vested interest here.  We have 26,000 hearings a year.
         24         That's about 40 percent of all the hearings in the
         25         state.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Why is that?  What makes Dade
          2         County so unique?
          3              MR. LOGUE:  I think it's because we have a lot of
          4         valuable real estate.  I think it's because we're a
          5         little bit litigious.  I think it's because contingency
          6         fees are being used as a way to testify in these
          7         hearings.  In other words, testimony based upon
          8         contingency fees.  But that's a whole other issue.
          9              Governor, for about eight months a year we have
         10         1,000 hearings a week.  And if we get off schedule --
         11         that's for eight months -- if we get off schedule, it's
         12         going to become an endless process.  I'm a lawyer.  I
         13         love process, but, you know, process has got to end.
         14         And our concern here is we would like to make this
         15         regulation workable.  We like the exchange of
         16         information, we embrace it.
         17              The property appraiser of Dade County is spending
         18         a million dollars to make this work.  We've bought
         19         equipment, there's a fancy name for it, but basically
         20         what it does is it allows the scanning of documents and
         21         the queuing of them for E-mailing and faxing.  We've
         22         also got ten new staff positions so that we can have
         23         this exchange of information.  We think this can be
         24         win/win.  Because if we get a really meaningful
         25         exchange of information it's going to help us work out
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         cases.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Will it make it faster?
          3              MR. LOGUE:  The settlements will make it faster.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  So are you dealing with the
          5         paradigm in which you're in right now but the rules
          6         will change to accelerate the, you know, the solution,
          7         or the resolution of these issues faster, won't it?
          8              MR. LOGUE:  If we make this workable instead of
          9         just make work and here's our problem.  Let me just
         10         very quickly -- one thing is as of yesterday we were
         11         told DOR is proposing new language.  We thank them for
         12         their hard work because we've been working with them
         13         for a year and a half.  As of this morning, you know,
         14         some language was going to be put forward.  Again, we
         15         were told it's not going to be put forward.  We honor
         16         them working so hard.  But I think that's a signal that
         17         the work isn't done yet.
         18              But more importantly, Governor, our problem is
         19         this:  There's a problem of delivery by mail.
         20         Governor, under this regulation we're required to
         21         evaluate the taxpayer's proposal, and that is, by the
         22         way, that is something from south Florida.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes, sir, I'm listening.
         24              MR. LOGUE:  We're required, the property
         25         appraiser, Governor, has to look at their exchange
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         of -- has to look at the taxpayer's information,
          2         evaluate it, prepare a meaningful response and deliver
          3         it within three working days if the hearing is
          4         scheduled on a Monday or Friday.  We can't deliver it
          5         by mail in three working days.  We can deliver it by
          6         E-mail or fax but it is physically impossible to
          7         deliver it by mail and that's what this reg would
          8         require us to do.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, that's not a unique Miami
         10         problem, that's a problem all across the state, right?
         11              MR. LOGUE:  That's why we think the reg has got to
         12         be looked at.  In the DOR bulletin -- and again, I
         13         don't want to punish them for their good work.  But in
         14         their latest bulletin they actually recommend that
         15         because this can't be complied with, when the hearing
         16         is scheduled, you should immediately schedule a backup
         17         hearing because we pretty much figure that the first
         18         hearing is going to be rescheduled.  This is
         19         government -- I'm a government guy, I'm a career
         20         government guy.  This is government at its worst.
         21              GOVERNOR BUSH:  That would never happen in
         22         Miami-Dade County government.
         23              MR. LOGUE:  And I have to admit, we're asking you
         24         to reschedule.  But the thing is we have a thousand --
         25         you know, but with a thousand hearings a week, if we
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         start rescheduling, we're going to get into trouble.
          2         And the idea that we --
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  What's your proposal?
          4              MR. LOGUE:  Our proposal is --
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  You're welcome to talking more.
          6         But I mean if you had a magic wand right now in terms
          7         of timing, what would you suggest to be the solution to
          8         your problems?
          9              MR. LOGUE:  Five working days.  Give us five
         10         working days instead of five calendar days.  They gave
         11         us --
         12              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  We got a statutory problem
         13         with that, I think.
         14              MR. LOGUE:  Not with that change.  The real
         15         solution here is everything is triggered off a
         16         20-day -- 20 days before the hearing the notice of
         17         hearing is delivered to the taxpayer.  And
         18         everything -- that's the trigger date.  Everything has
         19         got to be done within the 20-day truncated period.  If
         20         the Legislature would push that 20 days out to 25 days
         21         or 30 days --
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  But we can't -- I mean, we're not
         23         going to have a special session today.
         24              MR. LOGUE:  So that can't be done.  But what can
         25         be done is, you know, government lawyer, career lawyer,
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         I teach Florida constitutional law at Miami and
          2         St. Thomas.  I think it's clearly within the
          3         Department's authority to go -- to interpret the
          4         statutory term "days."  The term "days" occurs in the
          5         statute.  They can interpret that as calendar days --
          6         I'm sorry.
          7              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  What if we just -- I mean,
          8         who has a problem with us changing five -- take the
          9         word "calendar" out and say, Five days prior to the
         10         date of such scheduled delivery in that sentence --
         11         first sentence under 5A.
         12              MR. LOGUE:  If we can just say five working days.
         13              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, how about if it just
         14         said five days and it didn't say working or calendar
         15         and then they're going to interpret, most likely,
         16         working days?
         17              MR. LOGUE:  Well, if they're going to interpret it
         18         as working days then --
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Let's ask Dr. Zingale.  If this is
         20         your main issue.
         21              DR. ZINGALE:  If you look at the first page of the
         22         rule, if you happen to have it in front of you, but
         23         this is what the rule reads today:  We adopted the APA
         24         model rule that said if the time frame workdays were
         25         less than seven, then you had to go to working days.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         And the last sentence says, In computing the five-day
          2         period prescribed in this section, intermediate
          3         Saturdays, Sundays and legal holidays shall be excluded
          4         in the calculation.  So the rule in front of you says
          5         five working days.
          6              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  But it doesn't.  It says
          7         five calendar days.
          8              DR. ZINGALE:  Are you reading the same sentence
          9         I'm reading?
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Okay.  I'm sorry, I got --
         11         it says -- right now it says five days.
         12              DR. ZINGALE:  But if you look at the rule under
         13         Section 3, last sentence.
         14              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Shall be excluded.  Okay.
         15         So it does what he's asking for.
         16              DR. ZINGALE:  Absolutely, and we've been saying
         17         that for awhile.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, he may have been stuck
         19         with the one I'm looking at that didn't say that.
         20              DR. ZINGALE:  This had been advertised, noticed,
         21         been out there for many, many --
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, believe it or not, I
         23         got it somehow.
         24              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Please continue on.
         25              MR. LOGUE:  Thank you for your indulgence.  One of
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         the things that DOR has done so much work on this.
          2         Governor, I'd ask you to look at Section 4B and
          3         Commissioner Gallagher, 4B.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  We got it.
          5              MR. LOGUE:  What they did is they worked really
          6         hard on this but it's become like a Band-Aid job.  In
          7         other words, there's been a tremendous amount of
          8         changes.  And at one point they did give us five
          9         working days but then they later took it back.  And to
         10         tell you the truth, this regulation probably could
         11         be -- once we decide what needs to be done, it probably
         12         could be written in much clearer form.
         13              I think your normal taxpayer is not going to be
         14         able to read this regulation and understand it.  And as
         15         you can see, even the director of the Department, I
         16         think, got a little confused there.  If you look at
         17         5 -- excuse me, Section 4B -- and I don't mean that to
         18         be -- pardon me if I was sarcastic.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  That was close.
         20              MR. LOGUE:  Forgive me.  And I ask the indulgence
         21         of the director.  4B, in other words, it says, We have
         22         to deliver our information to them five calendar days
         23         beforehand.  Oftentimes, that will result -- if the
         24         hearing falls on a Monday or Friday, we were actually
         25         going to bring in exhibits of calendars and everything
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         because appraisers are funny people, they're numbers
          2         people.  But we worked it all out.  If the hearing
          3         falls on a Monday or a Friday, we will have three
          4         working days to prepare a response and to deliver it by
          5         mail.
          6              Now Governor, here's the problem, here's our
          7         problem.  That's -- we can do it -- I mean, it's just
          8         make work, reschedule.  This will be a good thing if
          9         there is a meaningful exchange of information, if we
         10         have the time to look at their package and meaningfully
         11         respond to it.  And we're dealing with professionals
         12         like David Zackum, Bill Collum, Ben Phipps, Stan
         13         Price -- I mean, Stan Beck.  We'll work them out if
         14         it's meaningful.
         15              But if it's just like everyone doesn't have time
         16         to do the job so we're just going to do typical stuff,
         17         that's not so good.  Rescheduling is not in anyone's
         18         interest.  Although I say that, I would ask you if
         19         you'd see it -- sir?
         20              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I guess I ask Jim.  On this
         21         4B5 and 4B3 where it says five calendar days, why does
         22         it say "calendar" in those two places?
         23              DR. ZINGALE:  Two time frame works.  One, the time
         24         frame work that the property appraiser has to respond,
         25         which is the calendar days, I mean which is the
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         workdays.  And the other sets up the whole ten-day time
          2         frame work which we can't exceed.  I can't exceed the
          3         statutory ten days that the Legislature puts out.  So
          4         when the value adjustment board schedules the meeting,
          5         the taxpayer has ten days, okay, to present evidence.
          6              Okay.  That ten days is -- as we've interpreted
          7         that using the APA model language to be calendar days
          8         because it's greater than seven and there aren't
          9         weekend problems.  When property appraiser has to
         10         respond, okay, we have chosen to use, because it's less
         11         than seven days, that five-day response period, working
         12         days so that they don't get penalized by that holiday,
         13         they don't get penalized by that weekend.  So I can
         14         clarify the response.
         15              The property appraiser in this rule does not have
         16         to respond to what the taxpayer is giving them, okay.
         17         They don't have to respond back to the taxpayer in
         18         terms of what they said  They simply have to present
         19         the evidence upon which they base their assessment on.
         20         They have to go into their computer and say, Here's
         21         what we did to value that property.  And that was
         22         already a done deal.  They knew what the value of that
         23         property was the minute they mailed it out to the
         24         taxpayer.  So they don't have to go out and reassess
         25         the property.  They don't have to do anything but to
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         identify what that is.
          2              If that exchange isn't taking place right, we
          3         allowed -- or the rule says, If the property appraiser
          4         and the taxpayer can agree on an alternative method,
          5         E-mail or fax, to exchange that, a more efficient way
          6         of exchanging it, they can go ahead and do that.  If
          7         they can't agree, then it defaults to mail which is a
          8         slower process.
          9              So I'm bounded by the ten days.  We, using the APA
         10         rule, which we think is an excellent rule, tried to
         11         give them the maximum days that we could within there
         12         to deal with their response.  I believe their problem
         13         is with the 10-day limit on the whole thing.  It's them
         14         believing it's not sufficient time to do their job.
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  What if we loaded up the 10
         16         days with more than five days on the front and made it
         17         like seven or eight and then -- it says, Two days for
         18         the rescheduling.
         19              DR. ZINGALE:  It says -- the two dates that are in
         20         the statute are ten and five.
         21              GOVERNOR BUSH:  So put aside all this.  This is
         22         becoming numbing to be honest with you.  We have
         23         another speaker.  But tell me, are we passing a rule
         24         that we anticipate is going to create the need to
         25         reschedule an already overburdened workload?  I mean,
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         you know, the fact is, despite Miami's uniqueness, and
          2         we do sue too much down there and this has become a
          3         business for people.  Intermediaries are driving a lot
          4         of this because they get a commission, I assume, and
          5         they're making a good living off of it, God bless them,
          6         representing taxpayers.  For whatever reason, they've
          7         got a problem that if they can't comply with this rule,
          8         it's only going to be magnified because they all have
          9         to be rescheduled.
         10              So you're just creating -- the problem grows
         11         geometrically.  So if that is the premise on which
         12         we -- if you conclude like our friend from Miami-Dade
         13         government has, that this is going to be the end
         14         result, we can't be passing a rule that we
         15         automatically know is going to create that problem.  So
         16         why do you disagree that this won't create massive
         17         rescheduling?
         18              DR. ZINGALE:  "Massive" is a term I have no way of
         19         quantifying.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Lots of rescheduling.
         21              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Rescheduling.
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  More than a handful.
         23              DR. ZINGALE:  It has not appeared to have happened
         24         that way in any other county.  It has not seemed to
         25         happen that way in Broward that has the same, almost
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         identical, number of appeals that Dade County has.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  You don't anticipate this being a
          3         problem?  I just want you to be confident because we,
          4         you know, in terms of public policy, we don't want to
          5         implement a rule that is --
          6              DR. ZINGALE:  The rule is your choice.  You don't
          7         have to go forward.  Statute says 10 and 5.  They have
          8         to follow that anyway.  All this rule does --
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  You don't want to answer, do you?
         10              DR. ZINGALE:  All this rule does is in all those
         11         places out there where these efficiencies can help the
         12         process need to go forward.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Why don't we get the other speaker
         14         up.
         15              DR. ZINGALE:  The next speaker is --
         16              MR. LOGUE:  If I can just conclude, it's hat in
         17         hand.  Thank you very much.  I apologize if I went
         18         beyond the line.  Sometimes we do that in south
         19         Florida.  We get excited.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Close.  You're okay.
         21              DR. ZINGALE:  The next speaker is Bill Coleman
         22         representing the tax agents.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Mr. Coleman.  The tax agents or
         24         the tax --
         25              MR. COLEMAN:  Taxpayers' associations.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1              You know, when we started this process way back in
          2         2001 I had some hair.  Now it's completely blown off my
          3         head.  So if you think you're taxed, look at this head.
          4              (Laughter.)
          5              MR. COLEMAN:  We're here in favor of adopting the
          6         rules as they're written.  I represent the Florida
          7         Association of Property Tax Professionals, Inc. which
          8         is a taxpayer association which includes the big five
          9         accounting firms and we represent many, many thousands
         10         of taxpayers in the state.  We also -- today I'm
         11         speaking on behalf of the Florida Cattleman's
         12         Association, the Florida Farm Bureau, and the Florida
         13         Retail Federation.
         14              The law as passed -- this was a very popular law.
         15         And what we're trying to do is level the playing field.
         16         It's been antitaxpayer in this state for so many years
         17         and we finally got a pro-business atmosphere up here in
         18         the Legislature and a lot of the property appraisers
         19         don't like this now.  But the problem is the law is
         20         passed and Dade County is actually working under this
         21         law currently.  It already has affected the value
         22         adjustment boards that have been ongoing since January
         23         1st, 2003.
         24              So I know they want to change the dates.  But
         25         they're already working currently under the law as it's
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         written.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  With those same dates.
          3              MR. COLEMAN:  Exactly.  And it's going on right
          4         now.  I just went to hearings a couple of weeks ago.
          5         There's an exchange being made --
          6              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Why do we need a rule?
          7              MR. COLEMAN:  Well, the rule is going to codify
          8         the law.  There are other things in the rule, sir, that
          9         aren't necessarily just dealing with the time frame.
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, how about if we did
         11         the rule without the times because the time is already
         12         in the law?
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  The statute requires it.
         14              MR. COLEMAN:  I'm not an attorney so I better
         15         watch what I'm saying about legal stuff.
         16              (Laughter.)
         17              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Don't feel bad.  I do it all
         18         the time and I'm not a lawyer.
         19              MR. COLEMAN:  I'll defer that to my esteemed
         20         colleagues here.  If you have a legal question, you can
         21         ask Mr. Ben Phipps over here.
         22              But the problem is if we delay it -- since it's
         23         already ongoing in Dade County and Broward County, and
         24         I won't go through the whole history of this thing, but
         25         we were actually asked to speak for Broward County for
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         the clerks' association to explain how this exchange is
          2         going to go.  Anne Richards is the head of the Value
          3         Adjustment Board in Broward County.  They have just as
          4         many hearings in Broward as they do in Dade.  It's
          5         about 20 something thousand.  They've already
          6         adopted -- they've already made the rules themselves
          7         and this also will enforce the legislation.  Dade is
          8         currently operating under it.  And we delayed this
          9         process since last summer of 2002.  We had all the
         10         public workshops -- yes, sir?
         11              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Let me ask you a question.
         12         With Broward operating it, do you find that there is a
         13         lot of hearings rescheduled?
         14              MR. COLEMAN:  No, sir, there's not a lot, there
         15         are some.  And we're assuming that, in all deference to
         16         Mr. Logue here, if you can use E-mail, if they'll allow
         17         the exchange to go through E-mail or fax, that happens
         18         a lot faster than U.S. Mail.  What we're saying is if
         19         it's deferred -- if they don't agree, then it defers to
         20         the U.S. Mail.  There will be some rescheduling but I
         21         just don't see it as being a mass rescheduling process.
         22         They're already going through this thing 12 months out
         23         of the year.
         24              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Rescheduling doesn't do your
         25         profession any good.
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1              MR. COLEMAN:  No.  It doesn't do anybody any good.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Exactly.
          3              MR. COLEMAN:  We're all -- everybody really is
          4         working hard to get the information in.  It's just this
          5         is the first time that the taxpayers' eyes are actually
          6         going to see something prior to a hearing which is a
          7         good thing.
          8              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, I think all of us are
          9         very much in favor of all that.  What we're concerned
         10         about, if the difference is between five days and seven
         11         or eight days, you're going to get the information,
         12         you're not going to get a rescheduled hearing,
         13         everybody is going to be happy.
         14              MR. COLEMAN:  You can also agree to not exchange
         15         which we've done in Dade County this year.  We've
         16         agreed to not exchange information, let's just show up.
         17              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Just bring all the stuff
         18         before the hearing officer --
         19              MR. COLEMAN:  Yeah, bring it there.  I'll see you
         20         there, we'll see you there.
         21              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  The hearing officer may not
         22         even have time to look at it if he's hearing -- if
         23         you're hearing as many cases as there are until you
         24         actually get there anyway.
         25              MR. COLEMAN:  Right.  My opinion is -- and
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         Commissioner Bronson said it very well -- we've been
          2         through this.  This goes all the way back to 2001 when
          3         we came out with the concepts and the concepts came to
          4         you guys in November, December 2001.  Then it went to
          5         the session.  Then it was overwhelmingly passed.  There
          6         was debate about the days all during this process.
          7         Then we went to the rulemaking process.
          8              And Miami-Dade County, granted they were the
          9         biggest vocal opponents and we worked with them all
         10         during the workshop process.  We even -- the DOR even
         11         went so far as to delay that process January 2003 to
         12         let them try to get something done with the
         13         Legislature.  Tom's problem is with the legislative
         14         language, not with this rulemaking process.  He doesn't
         15         like the legislation.  They couldn't get something
         16         changed in the session this time.
         17              So my suggestion is, for the benefit of the
         18         taxpayers of this state, is to go forward, do not delay
         19         the rulemaking process because if you do delay it,
         20         you're going to affect the hearings that are happening
         21         right now that are going to kick off in the state
         22         within the next two weeks.  Otherwise laypeople are
         23         going to be making decisions.
         24              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I have another question.  It
         25         seems -- well, I guess I'm looking at the wrong --
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         you-all had some meetings and agreed to at least one
          2         change in the rule.
          3              MR. COLEMAN:  Yes, sir.  I'll defer that to Lisa
          4         Echeverri or Dr. Zingale.
          5              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Does that help Dade County
          6         in their thing at all, that change?
          7              MR. COLEMAN:  I think so.  I mean we're trying to
          8         help.  We've been bending over backwards for a long
          9         time during this process just so -- because there are
         10         other parts of the rule that are very good.  This is
         11         just one -- there are ten something paragraphs in this
         12         deal and this is only one paragraph.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.  Any other discussion?
         14              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I'd like the answer.
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Jim, will you answer that
         16         question?
         17              MR. COLEMAN:  On the change.
         18              DR. ZINGALE:  Yes, there was a provision in the
         19         rule that said, What happens if either party says, I
         20         didn't receive the information.  And there was an
         21         attempt to try to default back to a date something was
         22         mailed or something was sent to do that.  Both parties
         23         felt like they would prefer to take that language out
         24         and that amendment.  So both the Dade people and the
         25         property appraisers and the tax agents all agreed that
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                      DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, August 26, 2003
          1         that would be a good thing to do and that amendment,
          2         striking that paragraph, is in front of you.
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Any other discussion?
          4              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Let me do this, Governor, so
          5         we can get out of here.  I think we need to move ahead.
          6         This has been hanging around for a long time.  I'd like
          7         to move the amendment that everybody agrees to, to take
          8         that particular language out.  That's about as far as
          9         we can go and then move the approval.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Is that what you're requesting?
         11              DR. ZINGALE:  That's what we're requesting, if
         12         somebody would --
         13              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  I'll second it.
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There is a motion and a second.
         15         Any other discussion?  Any opposition?
         16              Without objection, the rule passes.
         17              DR. ZINGALE:  Thank you.
         18              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.
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                 FINANCIAL MGMT. INFORMATION BOARD, Aug. 26, 2003           72
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Financial Management Information
          2         Board.
          3              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes from
          4         August 27th.
          5              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          7         objection, Item 1 passes.
          8              MR. YOUNG:  Item 2 is request approval of
          9         information technology strategic plan.
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on two.
         11              GENERAL CRIST:  Seconded.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         13         objection, the item passes.
         14              MR. YOUNG:  Thank you.
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thanks for being here.
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                FL LAND & WATER ADJUDICATORY COMM., Aug. 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Florida Land and Water
          2         Adjudicatory Commission.
          3              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on the minutes from
          4         August 12th.
          5              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          7         objection, the item passes.
          8              Tsquare, how are you?
          9              MS. TINKER:  Good, sir.  Thank you.  How are you?
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Great.
         11              MS. TINKER:  Item 2, recommend approval of the
         12         proposed final rule establishing the Tomoka Community
         13         Development District in Flagler County.
         14              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion to approve.
         15              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         17         objection, the item passes.  Thank you.
         18              MS. TINKER:  Thank you.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Board of Trustees.
          2              MR. STRUHS:  There are no minutes to approve.  We
          3         can go right into Item 1 which is our request that you
          4         approve the 2003 Florida Forever priority list.  There
          5         are a number of items on the list.  One of them, of
          6         course, is today's main event and what I would like to
          7         do is to suggest, if I might, please, that there is a
          8         motion and perhaps even a vote on the list.  And then
          9         there is a number of people here who would like to draw
         10         your attention to one of those items in particular.
         11         And we did coordinate a list of speakers and I'll
         12         review the order of that list so that we can move this
         13         thing expeditiously.
         14              So if we could get a motion on Item 1, please.
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Excuse me?
         16              MR. STRUHS:  A motion on Item 1.
         17              GENERAL CRIST:  Motion.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Motion on Item 1 and now we'll
         20         have discussion.  Is that what you're saying or we
         21         want --
         22              MR. STRUHS:  I believe you can go ahead and
         23         approve it.  There are no objections to the list that
         24         I'm aware of.
         25              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  No, but you're going to have
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         a lot of people speak.  I think we ought to at least
          2         hear them before we vote.
          3              MR. STRUHS:  Yes, sir.  We can do it either way.
          4         What I'd like to do then is review the list of speakers
          5         on the Cypress Garden item.  This will be the order.
          6         Mr. Greg Chelius from the Trust for Public Land will go
          7         first.  Mr. David Siegel, second.  Mr. Kent Buescher,
          8         third.  Ms. Burma Posey will follow Kent Buescher.  And
          9         then we have Jamie Potter, Georgia Williams, Espen
         10         Tanberg, Sylvia Hitchcock Carson, Jean Reed and finally
         11         Senator Rick Danzler.  And I will give you a list of
         12         the names.
         13              So if we can begin with Greg.
         14              MR. CHELIUS:  Good morning again, Governor, and
         15         good morning, members of the cabinet.  My name is Greg
         16         Chelius and I am the Florida State Director for the
         17         Trust for Public Land.  We are a non-profit land
         18         conservation organization with a mission to protect
         19         land for people.  A few weeks ago, I was called by the
         20         Division of State Lands and Department of Environmental
         21         Protection to discuss the prospect of the Trust for
         22         Public Land becoming involved in the acquisition of
         23         Cypress Gardens.  Based on our discussion and
         24         understanding that the landowners were willing sellers,
         25         however, there was no site control of the property, I
                              ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         told the Division of State Lands and Department of
          2         Environmental Protection that we would be willing to
          3         sit down and meet with the owners to see if we could
          4         get site control of a portion or all of Cypress
          5         Gardens.
          6              Based on those discussions, we were able to place
          7         an option contract on 107 acres of the Gardens which,
          8         in essence, includes the very core of Cypress Gardens.
          9         And if I may, I would like to put a map that everyone
         10         can see.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  You're going to need someone to
         12         help you.
         13              MR. CHELIUS:  Yeah, I don't know exactly how that
         14         works.
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Eva's very good at it.
         16              MR. CHELIUS:  Not bad.
         17              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  You put it right smack on.
         18              MR. CHELIUS:  What we were able to do is we met
         19         with the landowners.  And as with any landowner, they
         20         were willing to sell us a certain amount of property.
         21         What we did was we were able to place an option on
         22         everything that's outlined in black which totals 107
         23         acres.  So it includes the -- clearly the Gardens area,
         24         southern corners, the Snivley Mansion, the Butterfly
         25         Conservatory and also the carousel.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              We understand that there are a number of people
          2         that would like to have the entire piece of property
          3         that the owners own.  I want to make one thing clear.
          4         When we did meet with them, what they did own was a
          5         total of 176 acres.  They never did own 200 or 230, or
          6         250.  That was the total amount of property that they
          7         did own.  They sold 6 acres on the west side of the
          8         property.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  That doesn't do much good when you
         10         point at that screen.  You have to point -- if you can
         11         or maybe Eva or somebody could help.
         12              You can go back over there.
         13              MR. CHELIUS:  Over here (indicating), I think it's
         14         right there, they have already sold that property.  I
         15         believe that's being residentially developed.  Then
         16         this property along Cypress Gardens Boulevard is about
         17         10 or 11 acres and that is under contract.  And then
         18         this property right here, the cutout into the property
         19         on the west side of Harding Road and this triangular
         20         piece, they have retained.
         21              Now one thing I wanted to make clear is that
         22         although we are appraising everything outlined in
         23         black, the 107 acres, we are also appraising the notch
         24         and the triangular piece which is about 35 to 40 acres.
         25         So we are appraising that property.  They have told us
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         they would entertain an offer but it is not part of the
          2         option contract that we have.
          3              So with that, what we have is 30 days right now to
          4         appraise the property, to appraise the 170 acres.  At
          5         the same time, we are appraising that additional 35 to
          6         40 acres.  We have a purchase price in our option
          7         contract that if the appraisal is at or above that
          8         price, we have the ability then to take four months to
          9         do our due diligence, work on maintaining Cypress
         10         Gardens, hopefully working with the community.  We're
         11         willing to place money into protecting the Gardens
         12         during our contract.  And at the end of four months, we
         13         would acquire the property.
         14              What we would like to do then is to work with the
         15         State of Florida who is interested in acquiring a
         16         conservation easement for the development rights off of
         17         the property.  That way, the property would be
         18         protected from ever being developed into a residential
         19         or commercial development.  So the State of Florida is
         20         willing to do that to protect the historic integrity of
         21         Cypress Gardens.  We would then own the underlying fee
         22         to the property.
         23              And at that point, we would be looking, over the
         24         four months, at many options, and nothing has been
         25         determined at this point.  But I think there are both
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         private and public or private/public solutions to who
          2         would acquire the underlying fee and then manage the
          3         Gardens long-term.  We don't have the answer.  I've
          4         only been involved in this for about three weeks.  But
          5         what I would like to do is take as much input as we can
          6         get and then work with the State and work with the
          7         community on the best long-term solution to the
          8         management and operations of Cypress Gardens.
          9              So with that, I would like everyone to really keep
         10         an open mind, keep a creative mind.  Hopefully we're
         11         successful in the next 30 days.  If our appraisals do
         12         not meet the landowners' expectations, we would hope
         13         that we could renegotiate with them.  If we can't, then
         14         the option would terminate and they would end up with
         15         the property again.  But keep your fingers crossed
         16         there.
         17              And I think our goals long-term are really to
         18         protect the historic integrity of this Florida icon to
         19         allow continued public access.  And as important as
         20         anything else, provide continued economic benefit to
         21         Polk County and Winter Haven.  Thank you very much.
         22              MR. STRUHS:  Is Mr. Siegel here?
         23              MR. SIEGEL:  Right here.
         24              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good morning, David.
         25              MR. SIEGEL:  Good morning.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              Good morning, Governor, and members of the
          2         cabinet.  I only want five working minutes.
          3         (Laughter.)  I don't know how you-all do your jobs.
          4         I've been sitting there for two hours watching
          5         democracy in action --
          6              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  We only have to do it twice
          7         a month so it works out okay.
          8              MR. SIEGEL:  I have a totally new respect for you.
          9         I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for a great
         10         Floridian.  Burma Posey, would you stand up, please.  I
         11         want you to be recognized.  (Applause.)  And all the
         12         people, all the former employees of Cypress Gardens,
         13         the water skiers, the Belles and all the Friends of
         14         Cypress Gardens, why don't you-all stand up and show
         15         that we kind of dominate this room.  (Applause.)  These
         16         people came a long distance from Winter Haven, Lake
         17         Wales and such to come up here to show their support
         18         for what is Florida's treasure.
         19              Today is a very historic day in the state of
         20         Florida.  We're here to save Cypress Gardens.  We're
         21         here to save all of Cypress Gardens, not 107 acres, not
         22         an easement, but all of the Cypress Gardens that these
         23         people have worked at and all of us have gone to over
         24         the last 67 years, many occasions, maybe not often
         25         enough to make it financially feasible, but that's all
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         going to change.  If the State sees in its wisdom that
          2         we should save Cypress Gardens, and I know you will,
          3         Cypress Gardens to Florida is like the World Trade
          4         Center was to New York.  Unfortunately, they couldn't
          5         save it.  We do have the option here to save Cypress
          6         Gardens.  It's our oldes tourist attraction.  It's what
          7         people think of when they come to Florida.  It's what
          8         the real Florida was before the Disneys and Universals
          9         and Sea Worlds and Busch Gardens came.  And it needs to
         10         be saved.  It's a beautiful park.  There's nothing else
         11         like it anywhere in the world.
         12              I travelled all over the United States recently
         13         and everybody is talking about Cypress Gardens, even in
         14         other states.  And I'm sure with my urging you heard
         15         from a few of those people.  But we're here today, not
         16         to make any great proposal.  I think it's been well
         17         publicized what I intend to do if I end up with the
         18         management of the Gardens.  We want to make it the
         19         Smithsonian of the south and bring in exhibits of all
         20         types from antiques to pageantry to automobiles, to
         21         concerts, to -- the Florida Sports Hall of Fame wants
         22         to move there.  I can go on and on but I don't want to
         23         take up your time.  I think you've already heard from
         24         Burma about all the plans for the Gardens.  If I ever
         25         need a press agent, I'll definitely hire Burma.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              But we're here urging you to save all of Cypress
          2         Gardens.  We think the Trust, what they have done, is
          3         just the down payment on the park.  We can't seem to
          4         agree whether it's 170 acres or 230 acres.  But
          5         whatever was there operating as Cypress Gardens, that's
          6         what we want you to save.  Some of it apparently has
          7         been sold off.  I know there was one piece that was
          8         illegally cleared.  The developer was fined heavily and
          9         now he's planning to build homes on it.  That was also
         10         once part of Cypress Gardens.  It's kind of beyond my
         11         imagination how you can do something illegally and then
         12         profit from it.
         13              But we don't want to save a park that is going to
         14         be surrounded by shopping centers and 7-11s -- I have
         15         nothing against 7-11, but just don't want to look at
         16         them as we're pulling into the park.  We want to leave
         17         it pristine.  Also, we don't want to lose our parking
         18         lots because we're planning to have big concerts, big
         19         events.  And part of the property that is not included
         20         in the trust is the parking lots.  And they're planning
         21         to line Cypress Gardens Boulevard with strip shopping
         22         centers and fast food restaurants and that is not what
         23         we envision for Cypress Gardens.
         24              In fact, according to this plan, we won't have any
         25         property left on Cypress Gardens Boulevard.  So it's
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         kind of ironic that the Trust has only agreed to take
          2         107 acres.  We want it all.  (Applause.)  My badge says
          3         "all".  Their shirts say "all".  What we're here for is
          4         to urge you to vote today to save all of Cypress
          5         Gardens.
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you, David.
          7              Since the day is long, and there is no opposition,
          8         please come forward.  I don't think anybody is going to
          9         be opposed to including this on the list and you-all
         10         have travelled so everybody has a right to speak.  But
         11         if you could just be mindful of the fact that -- David,
         12         being a great salesman, could appreciate this -- if
         13         you've already made the sale, you know, if you keep
         14         selling, you may not make the sale.
         15              So -- we do want to hear from you, but if
         16         everybody could be as brief as possible, I would really
         17         appreciate it.  I'm the only guy, David, by the way,
         18         unlike my colleagues in the cabinet, that has to sit
         19         here because they can all go over there where the
         20         restroom is.  But since I preside, I have to be here.
         21         So I'm begging you to be sensitive to all of our needs.
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  He's afraid what will happen
         23         if he dares to get up is what it is.
         24              (Laughter.)
         25              MR. BUESCHER:  Governor Bush, members of the
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         cabinet, it's an honor and a privilege to speak to you
          2         today.  My name is Kent Buescher.  I'm the president
          3         and majority owner of Wild Adventures Theme Park in
          4         Valdosta.  And like all of the folks in the room today,
          5         we were saddened to hear about the closing of Cypress
          6         Gardens.  And I immediately thought that it could be an
          7         opportunity to create, once again, a great and mighty
          8         Cypress Gardens and have worked for the last four and a
          9         half months meeting with members of the DEP staff who
         10         have been working diligently to find a solution to
         11         allow that to happen.
         12              And I got to tell you, first of all, that your
         13         folks have done a wonderful job, moved immediately to
         14         try to put a plan in motion that would allow that to
         15         happen.  We are in concurrence with the idea of using
         16         an environmental easement to ensure that the lands are
         17         preserved and saved.  And like all the folks here
         18         today, we want to make it go.  We do have some
         19         differences of opinions on what Cypress Gardens should
         20         become.  But if we have the opportunity, ultimately
         21         Wild Adventures and hopefully working with the Trust
         22         for Public Lands and the State to become the operator
         23         of the park, then our goal is to make it relevant for
         24         families once again.
         25              You know, I have an 11-year-old daughter and she's
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         had the opportunity to go with me down there on several
          2         occasions.  And she's like, Let's go, Dad, it's boring.
          3         And what we've created at Wild Adventures is, first of
          4         all, the only theme park in America that's grown in the
          5         last three years.  It's the fastest growing park in the
          6         nation.
          7              We've grown since we started our inception in 1996
          8         when we opened to the public with less than 100,000
          9         guests to this year, about 1,400,000 guests.  And we've
         10         listened to the public, we've listened to what they've
         11         asked for.  And our principal marketing vision is to
         12         serve families.  If we have the opportunity at Cypress
         13         Gardens, that is what we intend to do.  What's been
         14         missing from Cypress Gardens is, is that we've somehow
         15         missed out on what I think are the kids and the young
         16         families and the static things of yesterday.
         17              I remember going as a child and it was great and
         18         marvelous and the ski show was just wonderful.  And
         19         those should be preserved.  And if we have the honor of
         20         ultimately of being a part of it, then we will preserve
         21         those things.  And that is our plan to do that.  But we
         22         believe that there need to be other attractions added
         23         to the Gardens and we would do that as well.  And, yes,
         24         this would include rides because the idea is to bring
         25         kids to the Gardens.  If they don't want to go, then
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         mom and dad don't want to go.  So I thought it was
          2         important today.  And I understand, I think we're at a
          3         foregone conclusion that we're going to get this thing
          4         on the list and that's wonderful, we want to do that.
          5         And we look forward to working with the DEP staff and
          6         the TPL and anybody else that may need to come forward
          7         in this process.  Because like everybody in this room,
          8         we hope that we can make Cypress Gardens, once again, a
          9         viable place for today and for the future.  Thank you
         10         for your time.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.  Good morning, Burma.
         12              MS. POSEY:  I first would like to commend that
         13         wonderful teacher that was here earlier, Janet.  What
         14         an amazing example she is for us all.  And I like the
         15         fact that she said she wanted to have a funeral every
         16         year for the word "can't".  And I think at Cypress
         17         Gardens we'd like to have a celebration day every year
         18         for the word "all".
         19              I'd like to thank Tom Gallagher for your kind
         20         words for our Belles too, they appreciate it.  These
         21         young women lost their jobs with three days notice.
         22         And this is their fourth trip to Tallahassee.  They've
         23         made arrangements for babysitters and are financially
         24         hurting but they love their Gardens so they are here
         25         for the fourth time.  And I'd like to thank Attorney
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         General Crist and Commissioner Gallagher and
          2         Commissioner Bronson.  Your faces are well known
          3         through our E-mails in all 50 states and now in 14
          4         nations because they've gone out in thousands and
          5         thousands and thousands of newsletters.  But before, I
          6         would like to emphasize that I feel we are most
          7         fortunate to live in the state of Florida with a
          8         governor who actually takes the time to read the
          9         E-mails and learn the needs of his constituents.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Can we slow them down a little bit
         11         though?
         12              (Laughter.)
         13              MS. POSEY:  I'd like to thank him for being
         14         overloaded with the cares of the Cypress Gardens
         15         people.  On the first -- the day before the Gardens
         16         closed, I wrote to Governor Bush and told him what was
         17         happening and asked would he consider the State saving
         18         this and he wrote back immediately and said he would
         19         consider it.  So my daughter and I woke up our printer
         20         the next morning and we had him print 20,000 flyers
         21         with Governor Bush's personal E-mail address.
         22              (Laughter.)  We handed out 14,500 of those.  And
         23         do you know what?  Those people went home that had
         24         never been involved in the political process before and
         25         didn't think their voice had significance, but we told
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         them we had a governor who cared and they wrote to him.
          2         And our great governor went on television the very next
          3         day in Tampa and said because so many people love this
          4         park and because of its historical and cultural
          5         significance, he would pursue investigating the State
          6         purchasing it.
          7              And if it weren't for Governor Jeb Bush, right now
          8         at Cypress Gardens they would be bulldozing the
          9         property.  So thank you so much, Governor Bush.
         10              (Applause.)
         11              After that, we formed the Friends of Cypress
         12         Gardens.  We're a grassroots organization.  I've
         13         received over 3,500 letters from 112 cities in Florida,
         14         from all 50 of our states.  And now we've received --
         15         we have members in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Egypt,
         16         England, Germany, Holland, Japan, New Zealand,
         17         Scotland, Wales, Italy and Africa.  Cypress Gardens is
         18         loved all over the world.
         19              We have members that are from age 7 to 84 and
         20         everything in between.  They're all races and all
         21         genders and all economic backgrounds.  But the one
         22         thing all of these people have in common is their
         23         genuine love for this sacred piece of land that we call
         24         Cypress Gardens.  Out of those 3,500 letters plus, I
         25         have only received two letters that wanted to save part
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         of the Gardens.  Everyone else unanimously wanted to
          2         save all of this property.  I'm glad the map is still
          3         up because I'd like to point out -- if I could go over
          4         and point to that.
          5              This is Cypress Gardens Boulevard.  And the
          6         property that Mr. Maxwell has wanted to keep from day
          7         one was all this property that he hoped to get
          8         commercial zoning for so that he could do a Wal-Mart or
          9         Target or whatever he's going to do.  That was all of
         10         the property that's used for parking.  The 107 acres
         11         preserves the park and it leaves us no parking.  If you
         12         have a successful venture, you got to have a place to
         13         park the guests.
         14              We anticipate having 20,000 people a day so you
         15         have to have a place to park the cars.  So it's
         16         imperative that we save all of this land.  The owners
         17         planned a development over the entire property as long
         18         as a year ago.  I saw their professional architectural
         19         drawings that were dated 2002 and they planned to
         20         develop the entire property.  I think that it is quite
         21         appalling that they gave their employees, the 529
         22         employees, some of them that had worked there for 20 to
         23         30 years, some that were second and third generations,
         24         three days' notice.  They should have given them 60
         25         days' notice to make their plans.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              I think it's appalling that they sold annual
          2         passes to sweet senior citizens that are on limited
          3         incomes that scrimped and saved to buy annual passes
          4         three days before they closed their gates.  I think
          5         that the owners have wanted from the very beginning to
          6         save the commercial property.  And as sweet as it seems
          7         that they're working with Public Trust Lands, I think
          8         that they still have the goal of saving this property
          9         and getting a commercial zoning for it and we want to
         10         save all of this property for Cypress Gardens so that
         11         we can make it.
         12              The owners were not good in the way they marketed.
         13         And the city leaders have from day one supported saving
         14         only part.  First they only wanted to save 36 acres,
         15         then 75.  And to be quite honest, I can understand this
         16         because living there they saw Cypress Gardens fail for
         17         so many years it's hard for them to imagine it being
         18         successful.  But I've lived in Florida for 33 years,
         19         and central Florida, the tourism capital of the world.
         20         And I know how important marketing is.  You have to put
         21         it in front of the tourists' face for them to know it's
         22         there.
         23              So with proper management and marketing, we
         24         believe we can make this a world class destination.
         25         And the spillover is going to benefit the businesses in
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         all of Winter Haven and in all of Polk County.
          2              In closing, because -- and we have a film that's
          3         five minutes long, that you might can go next door on,
          4         Governor Bush.  On behalf of the thousands of people
          5         who are here at this very moment while we're in this
          6         meeting, these thousands of people around the United
          7         States and around the world, Governor Bush, right there
          8         they're at home on their knees in prayer for you-all,
          9         for you to have wisdom.  And we humbly beg that you
         10         declare the entire property the easement and that you
         11         save all of Cypress Gardens for us.
         12              Thank you very much.
         13              (Applause.)
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Burma was going to sing for us.
         15         She has a beautiful voice and I'm sure it would have
         16         been great.  Appreciate you being here.  And I
         17         appreciate your grassroots involvement in all this.  It
         18         really has made a difference.  One of the best -- the
         19         E-mails that we have, the stories that people tell
         20         about their experiences at Cypress Gardens, are truly
         21         remarkable.  The one I like the most was your mom that
         22         E-mailed me last week and said how proud she was of you
         23         and your active involvement in trying to save Cypress
         24         Gardens and she's justifiably proud of you.
         25              Hello.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              MS. POTTER:  Good morning.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  We've been hearing at least one of
          3         those little critters.
          4              (Laughter.)
          5              MS. POTTER:  Good morning.  It's an honor to be
          6         here and I'm very humbled and at the same time, I'm
          7         very saddened to be here, even to need to be here to
          8         discuss this.  I'm Jamie Potter and this is my family.
          9         My husband, Tim Potter.  My daughter, Cypress, and my
         10         other daughter, Lily.  And --
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I thought you were going to say
         12         Garden.  That would have been too much.
         13              (Laughter.)
         14              MS. POTTER:  Our connection with Cypress Gardens
         15         began when we were married there in 1996.  And at that
         16         time, we knew it was such a beautiful place.  But when
         17         we had our children, we not only commemorated our
         18         wedding, but we also celebrated the whole entire
         19         experience and the park.  We named our children after
         20         the park.  When I think of the park and I think about
         21         whether or not we're looking at saving part of it or
         22         we're saving all of it, I really think about my
         23         childhood experiences and I remember as a child going
         24         to Mount Rushmore.  I remember my family taking me
         25         there.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              And I think now about if I took my children there
          2         what would it be like if they only saw part of the
          3         presidents' heads.  All of a sudden they decided to
          4         take some of them off and they weren't going to keep
          5         all of the park.  The whole entire park is so vital to
          6         the entire experience.  And when I heard about other
          7         plans and about young families and about children and
          8         if they didn't have rides, they wouldn't come, I'm here
          9         to stand up for those young families to say, We will.
         10         We want the wholesomeness that the traditional Cypress
         11         Gardens represents.  Thank you.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you very much for being
         13         here.
         14              MR. STRUHS:  We can save a little time if Georgia
         15         Williams and Espen Tanberg and Sylvia Hitchcock Carson
         16         and Jean Reed were all to queue up now, please.
         17              MS. WILLIAMS:  I'm Georgia Williams and Burma
         18         asked me to talk.  I talked in June.  And I'm going to
         19         cut it short and cut really to the chase.  The reason
         20         she asked me to come back is I'm a flight attendant.
         21         I've been a flight attendant for 33 years.  I've flown
         22         hundreds and millions and thousands of people to
         23         Florida over the years to come for vacation.  I was
         24         directly affected, all of us were, September 11th and
         25         the only joy we had for those months afterwards was
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          1         there's still people that wanted to come to Florida to
          2         get away from the stress of their daily lives.
          3              I do agree children love to go to rides and
          4         everything, but they also, my memories, my dad drove me
          5         to Cypress Gardens, but I still remember the Belles and
          6         I think I was seven, and the ski show and all those
          7         beautiful trees and flowers.  I do think that we have a
          8         valid reason to keep the traditions as they are and
          9         save all the park.
         10              Recently, I have had some of the most exciting and
         11         most unique experiences in my career because in the
         12         winter we went to war.  And I signed up to do the craft
         13         military charters to Kuwait.  And in the early part of
         14         the war, it was not too much fun taking our soldiers
         15         over there to fight.  But in June, it was quite
         16         wonderful to start bringing them home.  I brought over
         17         a group of Marines.  I brought them back to home in
         18         June and these were the men that were making the news.
         19         They had not seen the news but they were embedded and
         20         they had risked their lives for several months.  Some
         21         of them happened to be from Florida.
         22              And I met a young man and he lived just down the
         23         road from me and we got to talking because I was
         24         wearing my Cypress Gardens, Save All of the Gardens
         25         badge.  He could not believe that part of his home was
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         being forgotten and lost while he was over there
          2         fighting for his home.  He was going to come home and
          3         take his son, sure, to go see the mouse with his kid.
          4         But he said, I want my son to be able to go to the park
          5         on a field trip like I did.
          6              We do need to keep the Gardens.  Since then I've
          7         done other military men and women coming home.  I've
          8         met many more Floridians.  They're all amazed that the
          9         Gardens were ever in jeopardy.  And they are so
         10         thankful that we have had this effort to save it,
         11         whatever it is, it does represent home.  And they are
         12         glad to be returning to it.  Thank you so much.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you for being here.
         14              MR. TANBERG:  Governor, members of the cabinet.
         15         My name is Espen Tanberg.  I own and operate a dinner
         16         cruise ship inside Cypress Gardens, which is desolate
         17         now but we are still sailing.  And we are excited about
         18         everything that's happened here now especially with
         19         Greg Chelius coming up front.  We want to applaud Bob
         20         Ballard and Burma, of course, for keeping us in the
         21         forefront and also the task force.  I think everybody
         22         has made this such a key issue, especially you,
         23         Mr. Governor.
         24              We're obviously concerned that it happens quickly.
         25         It's very difficult to operate within a theme park
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         that's not opened and time is of the essence to say the
          2         least.
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  How do you do that, out of
          4         curiosity?
          5              MR. TANBERG:  Excuse me?
          6              GOVERNOR BUSH:  How do you do it?
          7              MR. TANBERG:  Well, very difficultly.  It's
          8         difficult to work with the present owners.  They have
          9         no intention of anybody coming to the property.  There
         10         is nothing really maintained there.  And one of our
         11         fears, of course, about two years ago around Halloween,
         12         we had a major freeze.  Most of the botanical gardens
         13         needs to be protected.  There's over 128 species of
         14         different plants in there.  If they're not heated or
         15         warmed, they will die.  If the Gardens dies, well,
         16         there's not much more to save.  So time is really of
         17         the essence.
         18              Of course everybody gets disappointed when they
         19         walk through and see this beautiful place like it is.
         20         So time is -- my concern is time is really of the
         21         essence to get in.  I think everybody should be
         22         applauded for how quickly they worked.  But really
         23         needs to even work faster.  We maintained our
         24         employees.  It's been very difficult.  Our captain, as
         25         a matter of fact, is a Mexican-American from the city
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         of Leon and wanted to say hello to your lovely wife.
          2         So, I don't know if that helps.  (Laughter.)  We do
          3         appreciate everything.  But once again, it's very
          4         concerned (sic) and we have six years left on our
          5         contract there and a great expense.  Brought this
          6         authentic river crew ship, one of only 22 in the United
          7         States, to Cypress, to Cypress Gardens.  It was brought
          8         in sections.  It can't come back out of there.  And the
          9         more that is saved, the more likely it will be
         10         successful.  So we thank you for your time.  And once
         11         again, speed is of urgency.  Thank you.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Say hello to your captain.
         13              MR. TANBERG:  I will.
         14              MS. HITCHCOK CARSON:  Thank you, Governor, and
         15         your cabinet members.  My name is Sylvia Hitchcock
         16         Carson and back in 1967 I won the title of Ms.
         17         Universe.  I started out representing the great state
         18         of Alabama.  But I must tell you, all my formative
         19         years, and 55 years, has been here in this great state
         20         of Florida.  And I can't tell you being raised in Miami
         21         how much that meant to me.  We went to the Everglades.
         22         These are the things I do not find boring.  I do not
         23         find that my children should find this boring.  I have
         24         always presented them to what Florida has had to offer,
         25         its natural resources, and I feel that's what we should
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         offer them tomorrow and today and for all generations
          2         to continue.
          3              Florida has so much to offer to their tourism.
          4         Burma has worked so hard with her staff.  And these
          5         beautiful Belles have come here and I'm just feeling
          6         that Cypress Gardens -- you know Dick Pope and Julie
          7         and the entire family has worked hard for what Cypress
          8         Gardens is today.  And I see Dick Pope Junior here and
          9         I know his involvement.  The Gardens is so important to
         10         the state.  It's important to our tourism.  It's
         11         important to our revenue and it's important to our
         12         future to keep our land intact and not to be developed.
         13              I was raised in Miami where I saw the banyan trees
         14         and the beautiful coconut trees and the pine trees that
         15         I loved as a child, along the beaches, disappear.
         16         Crandon Park is all that I see now.  So I'm just
         17         telling you please help us preserve all of Cypress
         18         Gardens.  We need it to further Dick Pope and Julie's
         19         endeavor to save and nourish and keep our state what it
         20         is, the beautiful state that it is.  Thank you very
         21         much.
         22              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.
         23              MS. REED:  Good morning.  My name is Jean Reed.
         24         I've been in Florida for 20 years.  And one of the
         25         reasons we moved to Florida was -- and settled in
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         Winter Haven was because of Cypress Gardens.  Many of
          2         my friends could not be here today.  Many people in
          3         Winter Haven were unable to attend, but they have
          4         signed this and this is their way of being here and
          5         knowing and telling you that they care about what
          6         happens to Cypress Gardens and asking you to save all
          7         of Cypress Gardens and we appreciate what you've done
          8         so far and we look forward to enjoying Cypress Gardens
          9         in the future.
         10              I'd like to flip this over for a minute.  I just
         11         want to tell you quickly that the children love Cypress
         12         Gardens.  Not one person, not one child did not jump
         13         for joy to sign this and be represented as saying they
         14         love Cypress Gardens.  They can't wait to get back
         15         there and we hope that you will help fulfill their
         16         hopes and dreams.  Thanks so much.
         17              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.
         18              SENATOR DANZLER:  Thank you very much.  Governor,
         19         members of the Cabinet, my name is Rick Danzler.  And
         20         since April I have been the chairman of the task force
         21         operated through the Winter Haven Chamber of Commerce
         22         on the future of Cypress Gardens.  And I'm here today
         23         to offer a few comments about the issue.  But before I
         24         do that, let me recognize a few people in the audience
         25         first.  And there is a reason why they might be here.
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          1         Between them together, I'm sure they can answer any
          2         question you may have about Cypress Gardens and its
          3         history.
          4              First of all, Sylvia mentioned that Dick Pope
          5         Junior was in the audience with us.  And let me
          6         introduce him.  He is the 1950 World Water Ski
          7         Champion.  He was the national water ski champion more
          8         times than I can count.  He was the chairman of the
          9         board and president of Cypress Gardens for many years
         10         and my father-in-law.  So I don't know if that helps or
         11         not.  But I'm very proud of him.  I'm not sure he's
         12         proud of me all the time, but I'm proud of him.
         13              And, Governor, someone mentioned a personal story
         14         that may help and let me mention mine.  He is wearing a
         15         tie clasp that was given to him by your father.  And if
         16         that helps, I wanted to offer that.  (Laughter.)  And
         17         at the time your father gave him that tie clasp, he had
         18         just caught his first tarpon on fly.  And so Dick gave
         19         your father a silver tie clasp shaped in a tarpon.  So
         20         who knows.  We're doing anything we can do for a vote,
         21         aren't we.  (Laughter.)
         22              But let me introduce Bert Lacey also.  Bert was
         23         the director of public relations for the Gardens for
         24         many years and he wrote this 60th commemorative edition
         25         that celebrated the 60-year anniversary of Cypress
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         Gardens.  So he, I'm sure, can answer any question that
          2         you might have about Cypress Gardens.  And Bob Garner,
          3         he's the executive director of the Florida Chamber of
          4         Commerce, but he's also the unofficial city historian
          5         for the city of Winter Haven and he understands the
          6         context of how Winter Haven and Cypress Gardens have
          7         had this synonymous relationship for all these years.
          8         And Jennifer Schwank is here.  She is the four-time
          9         world barefoot champion and she can certainly provide a
         10         perspective of the water skiers as well as others in
         11         the audience that I know and recognize and we're really
         12         glad they're here.
         13              Before I offer a few comments about the issue, let
         14         me recognize State Representative Baxter Trouttman.  He
         15         would like to say a few words.  Representative
         16         Trouttman has Cypress Gardens within his legislative
         17         district so he has a great interest in the outcome here
         18         and I'd like to recognize him at this point.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Sure.
         20              SENATOR TROUTTMAN:  Governor, members of the
         21         cabinet, thank you.  Obviously there is a lot of
         22         passion in this room.  This is very important issue to
         23         Polk County and to Winter Haven.  And, Governor, like
         24         you, I have also been in the cross hairs of Burma's
         25         E-mails and all the recipients --
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          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I told her to E-mail you.
          2              SENATOR DANZLER:  Thank you.  I appreciate you
          3         adding me to that list.  (Laughter.)  As I started
          4         this, there is a lot of passion here.  But more
          5         importantly to me as kind of a pro business individual,
          6         there's -- if you get to the economics of this issue,
          7         to our area, it's very important.  We laugh and we joke
          8         and we're having a good time and that's important, but
          9         to be move it to a little bit more serious of a note,
         10         500 jobs in our county and in our city is a big deal.
         11         We are not Orlando, we are not Tampa.
         12              The economic impact of the hotels and the
         13         restaurants and the surrounding businesses that work
         14         off and, if you will, feed off of Cypress Gardens is
         15         very important.  You've heard from one of those
         16         business owners here today.  I believe that for me to
         17         weigh in as to how the Gardens should be run in the
         18         future, be it the gentleman from Georgia or the
         19         gentleman from Florida, I understand now there's yet a
         20         third party who's interested.  I don't know necessarily
         21         that it's your job, it's certainly not my job to weigh
         22         in and decide on which one of those parties should run
         23         that Gardens.
         24              If you do decide to preserve all the Gardens, I
         25         think that the open market will take care of that.  But
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         in summary, I just wanted to be here today to share
          2         with you that it's very important, it's very critical
          3         and I would strongly urge your speedy decision on this
          4         issue because it's already been four months.  It's
          5         going to take more time.  And in the Gardens,
          6         Commissioner Bronson, you understand agriculture, it
          7         doesn't take long for your plants and animals to get
          8         away from you.  So thank you very much for your time.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you.
         10              SENATOR DANZLER:  Governor, the mayor of Winter
         11         Haven was going to be here today but they had a late
         12         city commission meeting last night and he called.  And
         13         frankly, I suggested that he not drive five hours in
         14         the middle of the night to be here.  But I do want you
         15         to know that he wholeheartedly on behalf of the City
         16         endorses the announcement that Florida Communities --
         17         the Trust for Florida Public Lands made yesterday and
         18         greatly appreciates your support and involvement in
         19         this as well as DEP and all of those who have had a
         20         hand in this.
         21              The chairperson of our county commission is here,
         22         though, Randy Wilkinson, and he would like to say a few
         23         words as well.
         24              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good morning, Randy.
         25              MR. WILKINSON:  Good morning, Governor and
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         cabinet.  I have a long speech here but since you
          2         pleased us with your purchase or the purchase by the
          3         National Trust, I'm going to put that away and just say
          4         thank you.  Thank you, Governor and cabinet.  Thank you
          5         on behalf of the five county commissioners, the 500
          6         employees of Cypress Gardens, the 500,000 residents of
          7         Polk County, the 1.5 million visitors who spend the
          8         night in hotels, motels in Polk County, the 500,000 who
          9         spent or 5 million I would say that spend at least the
         10         day in Polk County visiting attractions such as Cypress
         11         Gardens.  We thank you from the bottom of our hearts
         12         and we want to applaud your efforts.  Let us know how
         13         we can help in any way.  Thank you very much.
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Randy, there is one way -- thank
         15         you for being here.  There is one way, maybe you could
         16         help.  The one thing I've not quite completely
         17         understood is what development rights are embedded in
         18         this property today and what are these actual -- has
         19         the property been rezoned or has it been zoned for
         20         development rights or is there an implied value because
         21         of the surrounding areas, there may be development
         22         rights of certain densities, and what role would the
         23         county commission have if that's the case that use its
         24         powers to make sure that we don't create a situation
         25         where we're maximizing value while the intent of the
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         community is apparently not to have the property be
          2         developed for a Wal-Mart or a Target.
          3              MR. WILKINSON:  Thank you for asking that
          4         question, Governor.  And I was told yesterday that
          5         there is an offer on the table already for the ten
          6         acres along Cypress Gardens Boulevard, along the
          7         highway at $450,000 per acre.
          8              GOVERNOR BUSH:  What's the property zoned for
          9         right now?
         10              MR. WILKINSON:  Well, it's all zoned for the
         11         recreational.  And the county commission has discussed
         12         this.  As long as it is county property, we do know the
         13         City perhaps --
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Do you know where I'm going with
         15         this?  I mean, if the property is zoned recreational,
         16         is zoned theme park or whatever the term would be, and
         17         someone has plans to build a shopping center that would
         18         have inherently a higher value for that property, is it
         19         the proper role for the State to buy the property at
         20         the to-be-zoned price or for --
         21              MR. WILKINSON:  Well, let me first get
         22         clarification.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  We have this topic of conversation
         24         all the time just so you know.  It's not our job to be
         25         having to pay for decisions made at the local level
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         about development.
          2              MR. WILKINSON:  Those 10 acres may be zoned
          3         commercial at this time.  The rest of it, I believe, is
          4         the recreational which we would preserve.
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Can you put the map back up so I
          6         can get a sense of where those ten acres are?
          7              SENATOR DANZLER:  Governor, if I could clarify
          8         that point.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Perfect.
         10              SENATOR DANZLER:  There is a contract that exists
         11         over approximately 10 acres.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Can you show where that is?
         13              SENATOR DANZLER:  Eva is showing that now.
         14              GOVERNOR BUSH:  That's 10 acres?
         15              SENATOR DANZLER:  And I just confirmed with staff
         16         that that is already zoned commercial.
         17              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Okay.  And what about the bigger
         18         chunk that has the platted -- no, the blank area where
         19         the parking lot is and below.  All of that is zoned
         20         what?
         21              MS. ARMSTRONG:  This is zoned commercial and this
         22         is either single family back in here or multifamily,
         23         Rob?  This is commercial corridor.
         24              MR. LOVERN:  All of it is marked tourist
         25         commercial corridor except for the southern --
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.  We'll have this
          2         conversation later.  I just want to be on record --
          3              MS. ARMSTRONG:  This is commercial.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I'm putting my friend Randy on the
          5         spot a little bit.  I don't want -- what would be
          6         unfair is if the City or the County accepted a comp
          7         plan amendment or a rezoning that maximized the value
          8         and then everybody comes up to Tallahassee for us to
          9         write a big check.  If this -- and I appreciate your
         10         being here and showing support for maintaining this as
         11         is, if that's the case, then please don't take actions
         12         locally that would maximize value and put us in a
         13         position of having to pay for something that we
         14         shouldn't have to pay for.  Does that make sense?
         15              MR. WILKINSON:  I can assure you that is our
         16         intent.  I misspoke, but we do plan to keep the zoning
         17         at the current categories and you want to retain -- our
         18         goal is to retain as much of the park as possible.
         19         105 acres is good.  If we could do the whole park, that
         20         would be even better.  But we thank you for what you've
         21         done.
         22              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Governor, if I could.  This
         23         is going to be historic if we vote to put this on the
         24         list which it appears it may be going this way.  But it
         25         is historic to some great deal because now we're going
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          1         back to try to pull in the park which has some
          2         preservation -- definitely some preservation hold to it
          3         and combine that with the parking area and the
          4         commercial side of that whole acreage.  And we know,
          5         we've had to buy whole parcels to buy the piece that we
          6         really wanted to save before.
          7              But I do hope with the county and with cities in
          8         that area, with the tourism aspect of it, that the
          9         public/private partnership of this thing comes out very
         10         strong.  So whatever endeavor comes into this area as a
         11         private partnership and whatever the county can head up
         12         as far as tourist development tax to help the county
         13         side of this so that the whole package is put together
         14         to save the whole park but it's done with a
         15         public/private partnership.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Good point.
         17              SENATOR DANZLER:  Governor, just to finish the
         18         discussion about the 10 acres because there's been some
         19         misunderstanding about what that is.  There is an
         20         existing contract over approximately ten acres for
         21         approximately $5.4 million.  That's 540,000 an acre.
         22         And the value of something is whatever someone will pay
         23         for it.  Now there is a clause in that contract that
         24         allows the State or anyone else to buy that contract
         25         for five to ten percent of the purchase price.  So if
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         you wanted that 10 acres badly enough, you have the
          2         ability for 5 to 10 percent of the purchase price.  You
          3         would have the ability to buy that contract.
          4              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  You mean above that price?
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  A 90 percent discount or
          6         10 percent above?
          7              SENATOR DANZLER:  No, 10 percent above.  But what
          8         I'm -- you would be able to buy the contract, but then
          9         there would also be a 5 to 10 percent price on top of
         10         that that would cost you in order to assume the
         11         contract.
         12              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I've tasked the Department to
         13         really give me a briefing on the development rights
         14         that exist.  Rick, we've had -- this is kind of, my
         15         fellow cabinet members know, I'm a little obsessive,
         16         perhaps, about this.  But local development decisions
         17         have impacted us at the state where we have bought
         18         property at higher prices because of those local
         19         decisions.  I'm as pro private property rights as
         20         anybody in this room.  And I'm not suggesting that we
         21         take property rights that are already embedded in the
         22         property away.  I'm just suggesting that we don't make
         23         local decisions that will enhance it.  And I don't know
         24         if this 10 acres fits that or not.
         25              So we will pursue that, but the commissioner gave
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         the right answer.  I appreciate it.
          2              SENATOR DANZLER:  And I support that as well.
          3              GOVERNOR BUSH:  And I assume Winter Haven is in
          4         the same -- the city is in the same situation since
          5         they make the decision, don't they, not the county, are
          6         they in the same --
          7              SENATOR DANZLER:  Well, the property is in the
          8         county.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Oh, it's in the county?
         10              SENATOR DANZLER:  Yes.  It would have to be
         11         annexed into the city and I haven't had any
         12         conversations with the commissioners, the city manager
         13         about what their long-term plans are.  But in any
         14         event, that 10 acres is out there, that's an issue.
         15         The point is, if you want it badly enough, you can get
         16         it.  The existing contract allows that.
         17              And the task force, I hope you keep this in
         18         context.  When Cypress Gardens made the announcement on
         19         Thursday that it was going to close the following
         20         Sunday, we had no idea if there was going to be any
         21         interest on the part of the State in stepping in to
         22         assist.  And frankly, Governor Bush, when you stepped
         23         forward at the first of that week and said that you
         24         would like to pursue at least the alternative or the
         25         opportunity of the State to assist in some way, that
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          1         breathed life into this and we wouldn't be here today
          2         if you hadn't done that and thank you very much.
          3              But we had our first meeting as a task force the
          4         following Thursday to try to get some feel for what we
          5         might be willing to do and able to do.  And the
          6         recommendation before you, you have it in writing, and
          7         we submitted our report, but let me be absolutely
          8         clear, if the State wants to buy the entire park, that
          9         is great.  We do not object to that.  But what the
         10         legislative delegation had asked us to do,
         11         understanding that we might not be able to buy the
         12         entire park, but identify the part of Cypress Gardens
         13         that really is its heart and soul.  And at the end of
         14         the day --
         15              (Audience sighs.)
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Please, please, please.
         17              SENATOR DANZLER:  That's what I was told by the
         18         legislative delegation.  That's what I thought my
         19         charge was.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Well, I appreciate you saying
         21         that.  And I think whatever happens, as Commissioner
         22         Bronson said something I want to repeat because it's
         23         really important.  That is, the ultimate solution of
         24         this, we'll find out over the next 60 days as the Trust
         25         for Public Lands pursues whatever options are
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         available.  I would urge that the passion that has been
          2         expressed today and the community support, Rick, of
          3         your task force really be evidenced by the
          4         public/private support on an ongoing basis.  I mean, I
          5         have no idea where we're going to end up with this.
          6         But in order to make this a tremendous win, it's going
          7         to require everybody's active involvement in the city
          8         and in the county, irrespective if there's an operator
          9         that comes in to run the park again.  It's really going
         10         to require a lot of help.
         11              For example, if the Gardens are at stake right now
         12         because nothing has been done and we're moving into
         13         cooler season, is it possible for us to be able -- if
         14         we have an option or you-all have an option, can you
         15         access the property now?  Well, there may be some
         16         community projects to do a little weeding, for example.
         17         I mean, there needs to be some support.
         18              SENATOR DANZLER:  I assure you there is an army of
         19         volunteers that is willing to step forward and assist
         20         in this regard.  I've had people that I don't even know
         21         send me checks wanting to help with Cypress Gardens in
         22         some sort of preservation effort that I've had to send
         23         back because we didn't really have a way to deal with
         24         that but we do now.  And the announcement yesterday
         25         from the Trust for Public Lands, I think, is a grand
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         slam home run.  It stops the bleed, it allows us to
          2         begin maintaining the property again, it keeps the
          3         properties or the buildings from falling into disrepair
          4         any more.  So this was a great thing.  And frankly, it
          5         couldn't have happened without the kind of creative
          6         work on the part of your staff and I want to commend
          7         them again publicly.  They've done a great job.  And
          8         thank all of you for your assistance.
          9              GENERAL CRIST:  Governor, could I ask a question?
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Yes.
         11              GENERAL CRIST:  David, I wondered -- are you done,
         12         Senator?
         13              SENATOR DANZLER:  Yes.
         14              GENERAL CRIST:  Thank you for being here.
         15              I was curious, David, if you could just make it
         16         clear to us.  The project as proposed to be included
         17         under the Florida Forever Act, would that, in fact,
         18         include all of the property of Cypress Gardens?
         19              MR. STRUHS:  Attorney General Crist, we designed
         20         this item on this list so it would give you and the
         21         cabinet maximum flexibility.  We've crafted it so it
         22         includes potentially the entire 176 acres under
         23         conservation easement.  Obviously, any other
         24         arrangements that might come forward over the next 30
         25         or 60 days would also be allowable.  But we felt, to
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         give you the maximum ability, we would put in the full
          2         number.
          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Governor, I don't know if there is
          4         a motion on the floor, but if there is not, I would
          5         like to make the motion that it would include all of
          6         the property for Cypress Gardens.
          7              (Applause.)
          8              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I think that is the motion, isn't
          9         it, the flexibility?  It's there on the list and we
         10         have the ability --
         11              MR. STRUHS:  Yes, that's how the list was
         12         prepared, to include the full acreage.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.  There is a motion.  I
         14         think we already had a motion and a second --
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  -- we've had ample discussion
         17         which we appreciate people coming up to provide added
         18         insights.  Is there any other discussion?  Is there any
         19         objections to this list?  Which, by the way, for the
         20         folks that are exclusively interested in Cypress
         21         Gardens, our state leads the nation in the purchase of
         22         pristine preservation lands.  It's something that we
         23         all should be very proud of.  We buy more land -- this
         24         list is a reflection of that -- than the federal
         25         government even.  More than California.  More than New
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         York.  More than Texas.  More than Alabama.  And it's a
          2         great bipartisan tradition that, I think, is one of the
          3         great success stories of state public policy.  So
          4         you-all participated in something a little broader than
          5         just the Cypress Gardens inclusion on the list.  It's
          6         the list itself that we're approving.  And without
          7         objection, the motion passes.
          8              (Applause.)
          9              All right.  We have a little bit more work to do,
         10         the rest of our agenda.  If you guys -- I don't think
         11         it's going to take long.  I don't want you-all to sit
         12         back down again though.  (Laughter.)
         13              MR. STRUHS:  The third substitute item, No. 2,
         14         Governor, is a land exchange with the City of Lakeland.
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on two.
         16              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
         17              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         18         objection Item 2 passes.
         19              MR. STRUHS:  Item 3, Governor, I would like to
         20         take just a moment and introduce the City of Miami
         21         Beach commissioner, Jose Smith, who is here.  There you
         22         are.
         23              MR. SMITH:  Hello, Mr. Governor, members of the
         24         cabinet.  I'm Jose Smith, a member of the Miami Beach
         25         City Commission.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Thank you for being up here.
          2              MR. SMITH:  My pleasure.  And on behalf of our
          3         mayor --
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Could we have everybody's
          5         attention, please?  We're still fighting through our
          6         agenda here.  Thank you.  Thank you.
          7              MR. SMITH:  And on behalf of our mayor, David
          8         Dermer, who sends regards, and my colleagues on the
          9         commission, I'm here to express our gratitude and our
         10         thanks for your support on this very important issue.
         11         This Altos Del Mar Park, which is part of the North
         12         Shore Open Space Park, is one of our most beautiful
         13         resources.  It's the most beautiful park.  It's in the
         14         North Beach area where I live and the City of Miami
         15         Beach has $2.9 million in GEO bond proceeds that we're
         16         going to be spending to beautify this park.  And,
         17         again, thank you very much for your support.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on three.
         19              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         21         objection, the item passes.  It's probably the most
         22         expensive state park -- or park land on the east coast.
         23              Thank you for being here.
         24              MR. STRUHS:  The second substitute, Item No. 4, is
         25         an exchange with the Board of Trustees in the
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         St. John's River Water Management District.
          2              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on 4.
          3              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
          4              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
          5         objection, the item passes.
          6              MR. STRUHS:  We recommend approval of Item 5 which
          7         is an option agreement for two-tenths of an acre for a
          8         pharmaceutical school at FAMU.
          9              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Motion on 5.
         10              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Second.
         11              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         12         objection, the item passes.
         13              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer No. 6.
         14              MR. STRUHS:  No, actually --
         15              GOVERNOR BUSH:  No, we want to approve Item 6.  I
         16         deferred it last time.
         17              MR. STRUHS:  We're prepared on Item 6 if you are.
         18              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  I guess I don't have any big
         19         problem with it.
         20              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I misspoke last time.
         21              MR. STRUHS:  On Item 6, if I could just very
         22         quickly ask Chilton Hines -- where is Chilton?  If you
         23         would stand up.  Please rise.  This is Mr. Chilton
         24         Hines.  Chilton is the new director of our Bureau of
         25         Appraisals for state government.  And he's well aware
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         of your interest, Governor, and the entire cabinet, of
          2         the issue of appraisals.  He's new to Florida.  We
          3         hired him from the outside.  He's going to bring some
          4         fresh perspectives to those efforts.
          5              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I hope you came from a state that
          6         had low property appraisals.
          7              MR. HINES:  Alaska.
          8              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Alaska.  Oh, I guess that depends
          9         on where you are.
         10              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Just a lot of property.
         11              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion to approve 6.
         12              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         13              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         14         objection, Item 6 passes.
         15              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Move to withdraw 7.
         16              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         17              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to withdraw and a
         18         second, Item 7.  Without objection, the motion is
         19         withdrawn.
         20              MR. STRUHS:  Recommend approval of Item 8.
         21              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on 8.
         22              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         23              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         24         objection, the item passes.
         25              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion to defer 9.
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
          2              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion to defer Item 9
          3         and a second.  Without objection, the item is deferred.
          4              MR. STRUHS:  We recommend approval of Item 10
          5         subject to special lease conditions and payment of
          6         $14,475.10.
          7              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Motion on 10.
          8              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
          9              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Without
         10         objection, the item passes.
         11              MR. STRUHS:  Item 11 is the rules, the adoption of
         12         rules for telecommunications.  We recommended approval
         13         of this item and I'm prepared to discuss it if you
         14         wish.
         15              GENERAL CRIST:  Second.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Moved and seconded.  Any
         17         discussion?  Without objection, the item passes.  Do
         18         you have any speakers?
         19              MR. STRUHS:  No.  I know that Commissioner
         20         Gallagher has something to say on this.
         21              GOVERNOR BUSH:  Oh, you do have something to say.
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  After that's approved.  Now
         23         that we approved the telecommunications rule, I'd like
         24         to have us direct staff to contact Florida Teleport
         25         advising them of our action, our rule.  And if Florida
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         Teleport makes the business decision to renegotiate the
          2         terms of their easement to be consistent with the rule,
          3         Florida Teleport should be allowed to, without having
          4         to go through the three-to four-month application
          5         process, to reapply.  I think this will fulfill the
          6         desire of our approval, that Florida Teleport does not
          7         create an advantage or a disadvantage for them.  So I'd
          8         like to move that they get that opportunity.
          9              COMMISSIONER BRONSON:  Second.
         10              GOVERNOR BUSH:  There's a motion and a second.  So
         11         this is an addendum to the --
         12              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  Well, this is separate.  The
         13         rule is the rule is the rule. and this allows them to
         14         come back and take advantage of the rule if they choose
         15         to.
         16              GOVERNOR BUSH:  It's very fair.  Without
         17         objection, the resolution passes.
         18              MR. STRUHS:  Appreciate that very much.
         19              GOVERNOR BUSH:  I just want to pause.  I got
         20         really excited because -- how long have we been doing
         21         this?
         22              TREASURER GALLAGHER:  A long time.
         23              MR. STRUHS:  I would like to invite you to stay
         24         for just one minute, if I could, please.  I have an
         25         issue that's not related to Board of Trustees.  But
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          1         last fall -- and the reason I'm doing this, by the way,
          2         is you began the meeting with a conversation about
          3         electricity in Florida and that prompted me to remember
          4         that we are prepared at the department, over the course
          5         of the next couple of weeks, to issue an operating
          6         permit for Florida Power & Light's facility in Manatee
          7         County, in Parrish.
          8              The Siting Board approved this in the fall of
          9         2002.  And at that time, you asked me to come back as a
         10         courtesy and advise you when we as a department at the
         11         regulatory level were prepared to issue the permits.
         12         We're prepared to do that over the course of the next
         13         couple of weeks.  One thing we are doing as part of
         14         that is holding a public meeting in Manatee County so
         15         that the residents there have an opportunity to review
         16         and comment on the draft permit.
         17              But, again, as a matter of courtesy and keeping
         18         the promise to you, we wanted to circle back and let
         19         you know we're prepared to do that at some point in the
         20         next couple of weeks.
         21              GOVERNOR BUSH:  All right.  Thank you very much.
         22              (Thereupon, the proceedings adjourned at
         23         12:20 p.m.)
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                        BOARD OF TRUSTEES, August 26, 2003
          2                      CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
          4    STATE OF FLORIDA    )
          5    COUNTY OF LEON      )
          7              I, KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter, certify
          8    that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
          9    time and place therein designated; that my shorthand notes
         10    were thereafter translated under my supervision; and the
         11    foregoing pages numbered 1 through 122 are a true and
         12    correct record of the aforesaid proceedings.
         14              I further certify that I am not a relative,
         15    employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am
         16    I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or
         17    counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially
         18    interested in the action.
         19              DATED this 4th day of September, 2003.
         20                              ______________________________
         21                             KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter
                                        Notary Public
         22                             850-878-2221
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