STATE OF FLORIDA
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
STATE BOARD OF TRUSTEES
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding,
in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol,
Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, May 7, 2002 commencing
at approximately 10:00 a.m.
Registered Merit Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301 (850)878-2221
the Florida Cabinet:
Secretary of State
CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
Commissioner of Education
I N D E X
(Presented by Teresa Tinker)
1 Approved 4
BOARD OF EDUCATION
(Presented by Wayne Pierson)
1 Approved 5
2 Remanded 29
3 Remanded 29
4 Approved 30
5 Approved 30
6 Approved 31
BOARD OF TRUSTEES
(Presented by Eva Armstrong)
1 Approved 32
2 Approved 32
3 Approved 33
4 Approved 33
5 Approved 34
6 Approved 35
7 Approved 35
8 Withdrawn 35
9 Approved 63
BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by Tom Herndon)
1 Approved 64
2 Approved 64
3 Report 65
4 Report 67
5 Approved 71
6 Approved 73
7 Approved 74
8 Withdrawn 74
OF REPORTER 76
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
agenda items commenced at approximately
BUSH: The Parole Commissioner vote
next Cabinet meet be will be held May
TINKER: Good morning. Item 1, recommend
of the appointment of William Large to
as the Administrative Law Judge in the case
Audrey Randolph versus of Division of
BUSH: There is a motion and a
Any discussion? Without objection, it's
TINKER: Thank you, sir.
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
PIERSON: Item 1 are minutes of the
12 Cabinet meeting.
BRONSON: So moved.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
PIERSON: Item 2 and 3 are both charter
appeals for the same county. We would like
take them together, if possible.
BUSH: Are they the same basic
PIERSON: They are the same applicant in
PIERSON: Item 2 is the Polk Charter
Academy High, and item 3 is the Polk
Foundation Richfield Academy. They are
versus Polk County School Board.
appeal is brought to the State Board
to Section 228.056. The board has the
of accepting the appeal or remanding it
to the school board, or denying the appeal
accepting the opinion of the school board.
the charter school is Debbie
1 Hanley, and Wes Bridges is the school board
for Polk County.
BUSH: Big file. I hope we are not
through all that.
HANLEY: Good morning. I am Debbie
with the law firm of Tripp Scott, and I am
today on behalf of Polk Charter Foundation.
Charter Foundation filed two
on October 1st with the Polk
School Board. Those applications were
on December 11th.
can give you a brief recitation of the
if you would prefer or I could go
started working, our client started
on these applications back in April of
year and initially had submitted a
multi-year application in August
2001. The school board had requested that
scale back the applications to two schools,
we subsequently submitted two applications
supplemented the applications on
10th at the request of the school board
regard to grade configuration and school
1 location. That was as a result of a work
on October 9th.
December 11th the school board voted to
the applications, and they sent a denial
setting forth their reasons for denial
brought our appeal mid January, 30 days
we received the denial letter.
initially filed our appeal, and we were
to resubmit it for procedural errors; so
is basically the second time we brought
are the facts. And we are basically
that the State Board of Education
the applications to Polk County School
with a written recommendation that the
be approved. And we are
that on the basis of three factors.
the Polk County School Board failed
approve or deny the applications within 60
of their submission date of October 1st.
the Polk County School Board
to deny the applications on the basis of
third, the Polk County School Board
1 failed to evaluate the applications on the same
used to evaluate other charter school
am going to let you kind of guide me as
how much time you want me to spend. I can
into details on each of the three factors.
BUSH: Commissioner Bronson has a
We are pretty free-wielding around
BRONSON: I want to know, how
other places -- are you operating schools or
your organization operating schools in other
of the state?
HANLEY: The Polk Charter Foundation is
those two schools. Charter Schools USA,
is the management company, does operate
in other locations.
BRONSON: Where are they
HANLEY: We have schools in Broward,
And this is Lisa Art from Charter
GALLAGHER: I know they operate two
schools in two cities in Broward County.
ART: Right. We also operate in Dade,
1 Broward, Lee County and Bay County currently.
BRONSON: Did you have any -- I
what the school board had written down as a
Did you have any of these problems in any
those schools in the other counties that you
operating out of?
BUSH: Any other questions? Perhaps
should hear from the Polk County School
representative, and stay close.
BRIDGES: Good morning, Governor Bush,
Crist, Members of the Cabinet, Wes
for the School Board of Polk County.
do have a couple of issues. First off,
would like so introduce Carolyn Finch, who is
Director of School Choice for Polk County,
arguably one of the very finest advocates
choice in the State of Florida and does
work all over the state.
I think the appeal that was filed
this case was twofold, not threefold. It
reference failure to approve or deny, or
to deny for good cause.
1 This is the first time that the issue of
to evaluate on the same basis as other
has been raised, and I am not sure what
basis for that might be. I would certainly
essentially, when this comes to you,
from reading the materials that were
if their position is that they
applications on the 1st of October,
respectfully you as the State Board of
should send us all home and tell us
get to work on next year.
is that? That is because if, in fact,
applications came in on October 1st, we
60 days to act on them; didn't act on them
60 days, and they had an appellate time
that. That appellate time ran and they
file an appeal, and we are out of here.
if the argument is we did not take action,
we should not be here at all.
BUSH: If you didn't take action,
that be mean they would be granted the
BRIDGES: No. Under the statute, if the
board either denies or fails to act, the
1 failure to act is deemed a denial and the
period runs during which they can appeal
the State Board of Education. And that
period would have run as of the end of
if that is the case, we have no basis
being here and we should all go home and
to work on it for next year.
BUSH: Why don't you want this -- a
of this stuff is technical; there must be a
reason as well, or if not, that would be
BRIDGES: Yes, sir, there are very
reasons and they are set out in the
that were provided.
BUSH: Can you describe them?
BRIDGES: The school board sent a
document in support of their denial of
application. Some of the bigger factors in
are, first off, this applicant does not seem
give any or much consideration as to which
they serve, where they are served or how
applications that came in, we
had seven; they came back. And not
1 at our request by the way; the school board had
them some feedback and they elected to
back and reduce their initial number of
from seven to two.
those applications came to the school
and were discussed, the school board
to them about where is the need for
in Polk County. Where would it be
to have schools?
came back, made some changes of their
volition and to their credit, but the
when they came back, had some of
same problems they had always had.
1, there is no provision for
in these applications. We don't
where they would be. They propose to
schools, there is no funding for sites,
it takes time to build a school. There is
way, based on these applications, that these
could be up and running this fall when
charter school would be required to open
last year's cycle.
is an issue obviously in all
schools. Money is tight.
1 Transportation is expensive. It's more
in sight of what's happened statewide
nationwide regarding desegregation. We
a lot of money on transportation. It's a
in Polk County we have been
to work with many of our charter schools,
we have many, to work with them and
with them to provide transportation.
of these schools are small. The
that are proposed are big. We do not
the capacity to contract with these folks
application does not show any
that would lead us to believe they
have a likelihood of being able to
thing with food service.
CRIST: Can I ask a question?
you're transporting the students somewhere now,
you already paying for the transport of
numbers of students?
BRIDGES: Yes, sir, but there is a
there; where we have zone schools and
can control where buses go and make sure that
1 we can run them optimally with full capacity. And
we have to work with bell schedules and which
start at what times.
yes, there are dollars involved here,
it has been demonstrated to our
and our assistant superintendent
transportation has developed figures to
that the costs are simply such that we
not absorb them. We just don't have the
to continually increase.
every time we open a charter school,
have to go back -- if we end up providing
we have to go back and realign
provide the transportation into these
once again, they don't have a zone
Students come from hither and yond
we have to go back and add additional
to the calculus.
BUSH: Does the school district have
requirement that they only bus for more than one
less than three, or something like that?
BRIDGES: We have the same requirements
fall -- that's a statutory matter, Governor
and in general you have the 2-mile radius
1 from the school within which students would walk
the road conditions are hazardous. So we
-- our standards are the same as other
BUSH: If they are drawing from a
not from your zone area, but a broader
BRIDGES: Right, it increases the costs.
BUSH: Also you don't have to
transportation. If parents choose it,
make accommodations, don't they, to get their
BRIDGES: Some parents do, but we are
-- in this case what we are talking about
a situation, public schools where they have --
of the charter schools, and certainly in Polk
contract with the district for that
And the legislature, I think, spelled
some time ago their philosophy that if you are
providing transportation, you are really not
choice. It's part and parcel.
GALLAGHER: How many charter
do you have approved?
BRIDGES: We have 15.
GALLAGHER: How many?
1 MR. BRIDGES: 15.
GALLAGHER: 15 have been approved?
BRIDGES: Yes. I believe -- let's see
We have 17 that are approved; I believe we
15 that are up and running.
GALLAGHER: Okay. In my opinion,
I have visited the schools that this company
in Broward County, and I can tell you
are very fine institutions, doing an
I have looked through the department's
the technical assistance paper done by
Penn-Williams, and pretty much as I read
here, each one of the issues -- mission
purpose -- it gives the school's
by describing their qualifications;
the second one says academic design and
for learning, curriculum appears to be
and vertically aligned with
standards. Student performance
applicant has set forth
academic achievement goals and
governance and management,
delineates a plan and assures Polk
representation on the school's governing
1 boards; operations, again meets criteria.
facilities, allows the sponsor to
into a 10-year contract with the charter
and the district requires only a
budget in its application criteria.
applications on that, methods
be used, proposing to provide the school
with a format of their choosing.
financial hardship on the district,
that's not withstanding the dollar amount,
not a just cause for denial.
across the board in the technical
paper, the recommendation from the
of Education is that we recommend
these two schools be remanded to the
and the district approve them.
recommend for approval. And so it's my
to make that motion at this time.
BUSH: Is there a second?
HARRIS: I have a question. Have
seen this paper by Dr. Penn-Williams.
HARRIS: Because I would like that
1 In the past I think that we were very
with this company and their track
Is there a unique -- in terms, you
the two, Polk County --
BRIDGES: Yes, ma'am, I think first off
two schools with which I am familiar with this
has administered were done in partnership
municipalities. And to me, that is a
of community support which does not
in this case.
have come in clean and started up.
started out with a variety of locations
grade structures, and they have moved with
facility from community to community,
structure to grade structure, without
us any evidence that the communities
in fact, the Haines City proposal,
high school proposal there, was originally
to the City of Haines City; they
expressed an interest in that. But
their financial gurus got to looking at it
realizing that 14 percent of the dollars
going to be funnelled out for management
and whatnot, Haines City started their
1 own commission, their own education commission
city and county governments as well
local business, and they are interested in
a charter high school in Haines City.
their feeling, my understanding of their
is that they would like to do it
so they didn't lose 14 percent of
revenues to an operating company.
yes, there are distinctions between
is being done in these other areas, and
also my understanding that at least the
school in Lauderdale has been running
in the red; and also, that they have had
host of applications either declined this
or which they have voluntarily withdrawn
look for next year.
all is not rosie with this
HARRIS: When was this analysis by
Penn-Williams completed, do you know? I would
interested in that, to hear your response
it sounds so conclusive; and I understand
are very comfortable having worked with this
school in the past, but there some may be
that haven't --
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: May 2nd, 2002, I think; at
it says that on the back page.
HARRIS: It's unfortunate that you
had a chance to see it to be able to
BUSH: Can I ask a question of the
you all have a site -- if you haven't
building because you haven't gotten
charter, it seems like it would be next to
to have 1,200 students in a 900
school ready to go by August.
ART: It would be extremely difficult;
from our perspective.
BUSH: Impossible if you are
from scratch, right?
ART: Actually, I actually have done it
I opened another charter in Polk County
1997. They got approved actually the 1st of
and opened August 2nd.
BUSH: Did you build a building?
ART: I renovated an existing building.
BUSH: I am just talking about the
unless you are -- are you going to
an existing building in this case?
1 MS. ART: We would like to.
GALLAGHER: For a thousand people?
BUSH: Kids? Where are you going to
ART: What we planned to do, because of
delay, because of the necessity for this
is we would like to open -- we would like
open with a smaller number of students, and
scale it up next year when we can get into a
we have done that in several of our
In fact, we are doing that, we have a
in Lee County that will be 900 students
year; it will be 360 this year. We worked
the district for a roll up, for their
as much as ours. Just for
that's not a municipality
CRIST: Governor, one of the
that the attorney for the board mentioned
the facilities issue. Have you been able to
a facility that you could renovate?
ART: I looked at several facilities in
City and examined what the zoning,
zoning was, and got some bids on some
then when the applications got denied,
put that on hold to see what would happen.
also at one point had a developer who
offering up to lease us or to donate a
of land at no cost.
CRIST: I can tell you,
I visited the high school, Haines City
School, and it's pretty crowded. And in
with some people in the community there,
were very interested in additional
am not saying specifically that they
this alternative, but I know they are
with the facility and would like to
why I seconded Mr. Gallagher's
GALLAGHER: Let me also mention
-- and I want to give Polk County credit
credit is due for bringing in school match
good get a good look at and an unbiased look at
happening in Polk County schools because
do an excellent major. And Lake Ledger had
article on Sunday that sort of spelled out some
1 of the things that they found. They didn't name
schools, but I am sure the Department of
will do that when they do the grading
what they found that there is some
ineffective schools, and at the
time there is a handful of the worst
and at the same time there are some
great schools that really outperform.
you have Haines City High School, which
been trying to raise itself from a D; it
some very low numbers in the school report
reading, the 10th graders ranked 23 in
where an acceptable rank is 59.
the school officials, of course, point
schools that are turning around the low test
which is great.
just I want to congratulate Polk County
doing that because I know it will make a
in the counties that have done that
School Match does a great job and
do a great job.
I made the motion earlier because I
feel that there is a plus to having
charter schools. And I think just to
1 turn them down because you are worried about
too many or too many run by one company
those kind of things is not a good enough
to do it.
I am ready to take up the motion.
BUSH: Any other discussion? This
a -- personally, I think it's going to be a
of a challenge, even if it's remanded back
you all approve it, to set up a school from
having tried to do one myself, to get it
in the summertime, two months to hire the
recruit the students and all that, it
be a real challenge.
that's going to be between --
on what we do here, that will be
you and the school district. Any other
HARRIS: I have one more question.
GALLAGHER: I just want to point
one thing; that even if we remand it the way
is, the school board is going to go ahead and
it anyway. So unfortunately these people
going to get a chance this year to open a
most likely. But that doesn't mean that we
1 shouldn't send it back with a positive
so they can get open.
BUSH: That's right.
GALLAGHER: And work on it in the
HARRIS: I think this company has
an excellent track record, I think we are all
by that. We have seen good performing
think in this case it sounds uniquely
having listened to Polk County. On
other hand, Polk County has an incredible
at opening charter schools. I don't
it's because they didn't want more or
else. I didn't hear any testimony to
based on the recommendation of Dr.
I am going to vote for this. I
think -- I don't see how it's going to
be possible to open a school prior to
not at all with the due process and
that occurs when it goes back. But
least we'll be supporting of charter
is the process now, Commissioner?
1 What happens now if we remand it back and they
have time to open?
BUSH: They don't open.
GALLAGHER: It won't get opened,
the idea is that the school board will have to
this issue up again.
certainly -- their setup, according
the technical assistance paper we have, most
questions have all been answered, and they
be able to get up and running next year,
they wouldn't let them start a small one
I expect that a small one this year
happen, but I really do feel strong about
a message back and hopefully they will
it up. The law is getting changed, so if
don't approve it next year, the other
state school board will have the
to set it up.
it will be a different, a whole
issue next year. So I recommend they
started rather than get it hammered on
BUSH: General Butterworth.
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just a
1 technical question about the technical assistance
is something which is not in the
and I guess the school board is just
out about it today. So we are
going outside of the record in order
make a determination.
I think what you are doing is you are
the school board a very good appeal
here, just basically because as the
stated, since she determined her
on Dr. Penn-Williams' paper here, I
that just makes this thing very, very
I am not quite sure we are not going
where we should be. But if what
Gallagher is saying, they are
to appeal anyway, it doesn't make any
HARRIS: General Butterworth, in
future -- and again, it will be a different
next year, but it seems when we do ask for
kind of technical assistance, that it should
done in a timeframe so they have an opportunity
respond, because that's so conclusive, and it
1 would have meant a lot more to me if I could have
the discussion on the other side of why they
agree or not agree.
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a
GALLAGHER: Is somebody telling us
this paper was not given to Polk County?
HARRIS: I asked; they did not
GALLAGHER: But these technical
papers don't get given to the school
HARRIS: I don't know the answer to
but it wasn't today.
BUSH: You didn't receive it?
HANLEY: Neither party received it.
BRIDGES: We had no knowledge of its
BUSH: It's a summary of what's in
record, but it's part of the record if it's
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I suggest it's
If we make a decision up here, whatever
you make up here, you are better off not
to this document. If you refer to this
1 document, I think -- I am just a country lawyer,
it could be a problem.
HARRIS: My decision was solely
on that document.
GALLAGHER: Let me restate for my
if I may restate my motion. I would like
move, based on my understanding of this issue,
my motion is to remand it to the board for
BUSH: Is there a second? There
is a second. This is on item 2 and 3.
in favor say aye.
BUSH: All opposed?
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
BUSH: Two no's.
HARRIS: I am going to say no, too.
BUSH: Three no's. Very good.
HARRIS: I changed my vote based on
fact, because I was basing my vote on that
and if you don't want to refer to the
then I wouldn't have voted for it
BUSH: Thank you all for coming and
1 continued success.
was smart. That was right. You
that very well.
PIERSON: Item 4 is the appointment of
R. Lancaster as a member of the District
Of Trustees, St. Johns River Community
succeeding Virginia H. Steinmetz, for a
ending May 31, 2006.
BUSH: There is a motion.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
PIERSON: And 5 is the reappointment of
B. Sloan as a member of the Board of
St. Johns River Community College, May
BUSH: Moved and second. Without
PIERSON: Item 6 is the reappointment of
H. Cone as a member of the District Board
Trustees, St. Johns Community River College,
1 term ending May 31, 2006.
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Seconded.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
PIERSON: Thank you.
BUSH: Thank you.
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
ARMSTRONG: Good morning, Eva Armstrong
the Department this morning. The
is out of town this week. He extends
1 is the final rule repeal for
18-8. This was a rule that was in
when we had Preservation 2000 and CARL
just felt with our acquisition, how we
the projects we are going to work on.
are repealing it because under Florida
it required us to do a new rule which
already have in place with Florida Forever.
a housekeeping item.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
ARMSTRONG: Item 2 is a nonexclusive
wide easement for private access and
GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
1 MS. ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 3 is an
agreement for an acquisition within the
County, Archipelago, Florida Forever project.
GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
BUSH: Is there a second?
WITNESS: Moved and seconded. Without
ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 4 is an
agreement for an acquisition within
Critical CREW Project. This is a little
in August of 2001, you delegated
the authority to make offers up to
percent of appraised value or $5,000 per
whichever was greater. The Water
District is doing these acquisitions
your behalf and they bring this at
GALLAGHER: Motion on substitute
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
ARMSTRONG: Item 5 is an application for
1 a five-year sovereignty submerged land lease.
is in Brevard County; it was before you one
before and we withdrew it from the item, the
then because there was some pending
over the Brevard County Manatee
have completed the litigation which
required that there be posting of new speed
signs. Those will be in effect before
2 of this marine goes in place.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
ARMSTRONG: Item 6 is.
BUSH: That's good. We didn't have
big, long debate; no people opposing, nobody
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If you want a
BUSH: No. Trust me, I get enough
the e-mail on this particular subject in this
ARMSTRONG: Item 6 is an application for
10-year sovereignty submerged land lease. This
1 is in Duval County.
GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
on this one.
ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 7 is a 30-day
IV Special Event sovereignty submerged land
for a temporary boat show.
GALLAGHER: Motion on 7.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 8 we are
GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw.
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
BUSH: Motion to withdraw and a
Without objection, item is withdrawn.
ARMSTRONG: On item 9, this is an
to the prohibited water bodies list for
is known as deadhead logging.
have a series of speakers this morning.
have Mike Sole, who is the Bureau Chief of
and Wetland Resources to give a brief
1 outline of the issue and then introduce the
SOLE: Good morning. This item requests
of amendments to Attachment B of the
submerged land use agreement for
of precut submerged timbers, also known
B is the list of prohibited
bodies for removal of precut timbers.
water bodies are identified based upon
pristine nature or environmental
that would preclude deadhead
logging has a considerable
with the Board of Trustees. Late
early 1900s in the heydays of timber
loggers would frequently use the
bodies in the northern portion of our
to transport these logs. Approximately
percent or a small percentage of these logs
sink and often would be abandoned or left
time, the value of these submerged
increased to a point where it was
viable to actually recover or
1 harvest them.
until 1974, the Board of Trustees
a lease program authorizing recovery
these logs. But at that time in 1974, due
concerns raised by the predecessor
the Fish and Wildlife
Commission, deadhead logging was
longer authorized by the Board of Trustees.
in the years to follow, unfortunately
logging went unabated and efforts of
were relatively unsuccessful.
occurred or continued up until about
1998 when the issue of deadhead
was again brought before the Board of
And based upon concerns or
of concerns of the Fish and
Conservation Commission, the Board of
did again authorize recovery efforts.
this point we really get to the
of this item. In 1999, a gentleman
the name of Mr. L.C. Pinson applied to
timber from Newnan's Lake, which is a
in Alachua County.
month later, immediately after his
a moratorium was established on
1 acting on any new applications. This
was established based upon a concern
some timbering or some deadhead logging
and the environmental harm that was
Board of Trustees directed the
to reconvene the Technical Advisory
and also improve BEST Management
that were established for this
Department did so and came back before
Board of Trustees in April of 2000. And at
point deadhead logging, based upon these
BEST Management Practices, was again
after that lift of the
Mr. Pinson's application and use
was acted on in May of 2000.
important to note that at the time
we received the application, there was
in the lake. But due to the four-month
the lake bed actually went dry due to
severe drought that we were having at the
issuing our permits, we issued the
1 permits based upon the conditions at the time
was a dry lake bed. Mr. Pinson began
deadhead logs immediately after we
the permit. And simultaneous to his
a local high school, Eastside High,
conducting an archaeological research
And lo and behold, they uncovered a
number of canoes in the northern
of the lake.
Pinson continues his efforts and
with the high school to make sure
the resources were protected. However,
significance of the find became a little
better known, and the Department of State
a professional archeologist to the site.
at that time there was also some
that Mr. Pinson's activities were
destroying or damaging some of the
upon the Resource find and some of
allegations, the Department requested that
Pinson cease his recovery activities and he
thereafter, we investigated the
both the Department and Fish and
1 Wildlife Conservation Commission, and found
were no substantiations to those
However, the significance of the
was still well-known and identified.
fact, in March 2001, a 682-acre portion
the northern portion of the lake was
listed on the National Register of
Places. I think 93 or estimated at
time at that time 93 canoes and artifacts
been identified, and the important note was
canoes or in situ or basically in their
of rest and undisturbed.
carbon dating of those canoes
their ages to range from 500 to
also important to note that while
a portion of the lake was identified on
list of Register of Historical Places,
canoes had been found throughout the
and that includes on the southwest, east
northwest portions of the lake.
Pinson, the Department and the
of State worked on a modified
to allow Mr. Pinson to continue his
efforts. But the concerns of these
1 resources definitely established a significant
of correspondence. And, in fact, the
received several written objections
the modified proposal.
objections were received from
Patricia Whitman, director of Anthropology
Genealogy, Assembled Tribe of Florida,
Billy Cypress, Miccosukee Tribe of
of Florida, the Sierra Club and
Robert Hutchinson, Alachua County
of County Commissioners.
based upon the significance of
culture resources identified and the
and objections raised, the Department
State also submitted correspondence to the
recommending that this issue be
before the Board of Trustees and
recommending in support of Chairman
Cypress that Newnan's Lake be added to
list of prohibited water bodies.
based upon this information that the
is recommending that we add Newnan's
to the list of prohibited water bodies for
removal of precut timbers, and we also need
clarify that this list may include added
1 water bodies that sustain or have significant
one final additional note, the
does acknowledge the discovery of
significant cultural resources has limited
Pinson's recovery efforts. And we have
with Mr. Pinson and agreed to expedite
permits that are in house that he has for
other water bodies, and I understand a
water body that he is pursuing.
it's also important to note that
Pinson was only allowed to exercise about
month out of the 12-month use agreement and
$5,500 that he paid for that, and we will
able to honor the remaining 11 months of
use agreement for any future activities
he plans to actually recover.
this time, I have a long list of
I would like to introduce.
BRONSON: I need to find out,
we get to the other speakers, on some
you gave us.
1, did I just hear you say that you
added any other water body that may have
1 How did you phrase that? Because any
water body since native Americans have
over this state for thousands of years,
water body is potential to have some
-- I need to clarify what you just
SOLE: I understand the question,
we would like to add to the list is
that would authorize the Department,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees, to
water bodies that have identified
now the list only allows for us to
water bodies based upon their environmental
nature and does not allow us to
add water bodies based upon identified
resources that need to be protected.
what we would like to do is modify it
that when we do identify cultural resources,
we can keep harvesting activities to
HARRIS: These are significant
activities. This lake in particular is
largest collection of prehistoric canoes
1 3,000, 5,000 years old, discovered in all of North
so this is extremely significant.
BRONSON: Certainly history is
of the things I that enjoy doing, and I am a
historian to some degree here. But to
a broad approach to this without coming back
the Board to give indications that there are
factors that --
BUSH: That's what they are saying.
BRONSON: Well, no, I think what
just said, unless I am misunderstood it, was
on their own initiative, if they determine
have those issues in that lake, they can set
lake aside without coming back to us. That's
way I heard it.
SOLE: And that's the way I said it,
BUSH: Also the same process existed
it's environmentally pristine. So I mean, we
delegated that authority to the Department.
BRONSON: I think, Governor, I
want to drag this thing out, but I have some
concerns here, too, and that is it's fine to
out and say we have all these historical
here, and I think it's wonderful that
1 they have been able to find this many canoes in
lake, and so forth.
if they are going to sit there in the
and oxidation and destroy themselves
being preserved, what have we
haven't heard what we are doing to
all of these --
HARRIS: Well, in some cases,
there is water, because of technology,
they have said the best thing to
is to leave it exactly where it is until we
that kind of technology to go in and preserve
it is. And that's what they have in this
BRONSON: Let me tell you, I
a little more about this than you may think.
that is, if this lake keeps drying up, there
not going to be any preserving because as that
dries out or that oxidation hits that wood,
going to deteriorate at such a rate that by
time you decide to do something with it, there
be anything there to do anything with.
BUSH: Can someone describe exactly
we are doing with the situation?
1 MR. SOLE: Yes, sir. Right now I think our
have been predominantly to protect the
The park patrol has increased surveillance
the area to ensure that activities are
on the lake that do not harm the
I think Secretary Harris pointed
sometimes it is best to leave them in place
actually keep them in situ as they are. In
only a portion of the canoes have been
and uncovered and a significant
I think remain in situ and cover which
be in a more protected state.
difficult to assert exactly what
to be done at this stage. I know there
people that are here to speak on this issue
would probably be better qualified to
BUSH: First of all, I want to
-- we came here with anticipation of having a
The applicant has withdrawn the
and the Department is hopefully going
accommodate his interests, given the fact that
did have a lease in other places that would be
1 So I doubt there is much concern about
aspect of it, and kuto's to the department
kuto's to the applicant for doing that.
know we have a lot of people coming to
support and we probably ought to hear
them, if they could be brief since my
is there is a consensus that -- this
not -- but I don't think there is a
I think we probably have a pretty
vote here to accept the Department's
based on that, using the old real
credo that "if you made the sale, don't
talking;" if you all could be brief so we
-- you have come far and wide to express
support for this. We are happy you are
proceed with that, and then we'll
back to Commissioner Bronson's questions
the larger questions, the policy
How about that?
SOLE: I would like to recognize Sam
to speak on this item.
ARDEN: Good morning, Governor and
of the Cabinet, my name is Sam Arden. I
1 am representing Mr. L.C. Pinson.
Sole adequately went over the
that's been reached between
Pinson and the Department and that we
that. We endorse the taking of the lake
the list and look forward to working with
was done as a sign of good faith from
to us, and us to them, and we appreciate
BUSH: Thank you, Sam.
HUTCHINSON: Good morning, thank you very
I am Robert Hutchinson, Chair of the Alachua
Commission, and I learned most of my life's
on Lake Pithlachocco, which is also
Lake. I've got some pretty souvenir
with a map on the back for you all to
at some canoes; it is an archeological find
wanted just to express my appreciation
the Miccosukee and Seminole tribes for the
they have shown, for the Florida
of Environmental Protection, the
of State, Secretary Harris spent a
out here on the site helping us dig up some
1 canoes, and for her office's willingness to
the National Register of the canoe
and for the Department of Historical
and all they have done.
Everett and Steve Reside did a great
they are world class archaeologists now.
I want to thank Mr. Pinson for his
to withdraw his application.
County agrees with the proposed
and we will promptly refund
Pinson's application fees to us for the
approval for the site.
also agree with the other staff
with putting Newnan's Lake on
list and protection of other cultural
think it's important to note that
it's easier for a bureaucracy to
an initial decision that may not have
the right one, and I think it took a lot
courage on the part of people within state
and other agencies to recognize that
is a need for a change of position here,
the compromise we have today is the right
1 The maps that you have got on the back of
diagrams show the incredible partnership
going on between the State of Florida,
Water Management District and the city and
county in terms of land acquisition. And
you will notice is that a large portion of
Newnan's Lake area is either protected now
slated for protection.
was in Washington last week for three
talking to the National Park Service and
National Endowment for the Humanities, both
which have exceptional interest in providing
to protect these resources.
that, I will conclude my comments and
let you know that county staff and myself
available to answer any questions.
BUSH: Out of curiosity, on this
it says State HRS?
HUTCHINSON: The State HRS, actually part
the Cocklacholee site for the developmentally
owns a big chunk of land out there, that
used forestry proceeds to help fund health
BUSH: Really? We changed the name
while back though.
1 MR. HUTCHINSON: That's probably how it still
up in our deed.
BUSH: We may change it back now
Thank you for being here.
HUTCHINSON: Thank you.
SOLE: Sir, I would like to clarify
Commissioner Bronson brought up a
and I might not have pegged it as well as I
second item that we are recommending
this is just to add cultural resources to
issues that can be reviewed in determining
a lake or a water body should be added
a prohibited water body list.
are not amending or changing an
delegation in any way. We are just
instead of just environmental issues,
it could also be cultural resources or
cultural resources that are
GALLAGHER: I tell you, but I think
does change the delegation in a big way. I
not against it, but I think you need to say
does change the delegation; it adds a
to you. Right?
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: The question is do you have
SOLE: Right. The easy answer, if there
an issue of significant cultural resources, we
would bring it back before the Board of
before we added a water body.
GALLAGHER: Okay. Then I will make
motion to add Newnan's Lake to include water
with cultural resources as a criteria for
list and have them brought back to us for
That's my motion.
BUSH: Is there a second?
BUSH: Further discussion? I know
have people coming.
SOLE: Dr. Jana Mathews.
MATTHEWS: Good morning, Governor,
Members. As Governor Bush, the state
preservation officer, I just wanted to
very quickly this morning that Newnan's
Pithlachocco as defined by the National
Preservation Act of 1966 is on the list
D is a category that indicates
this significant property will yield
1 information in the future. Like an Indian
it is that future information that
would like to point out a couple other
that over this period of time, in
law and state statute, we have gone
micrographic history, George Washington's
to the history of everyday man, all of
lake is a perfect example of future
that may be available about how
man operated from 5,000 years ago to
Purdy, who would have been here
morning, has spent 40 years studying water
like that lake, lives near Gainesville,
been very involved and did offer a written
on the significance of the lake and how
fits in context with wetlands of the State
have a lot of good speakers who can
very eloquently about the significance of
lake. I only add one thing, that is a
event; is that I have had the honor of
appointed by Secretary of Interior Gail
1 Norton to the National Park System Advisory
Director Fran Mainella, said I could
to you that I am going to chair the
on National Historic Landmarks.
I want you to know that I am sure that with
Mainella's help, we can work very hard
get more national historic landmarks in
listed than we currently have, 35, and
this should be an among our top
BUSH: Very good. Congratulations.
DAYHOFF: Good morning, Governor and
and we want to thank you all for letting
have a moment to speak here. I am the cultural
for the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians
BUSH: Can you state your name,
DAYHOFF: Fred Dayhoff. And the Chairman
his regrets that he couldn't attend, but
had some conflicting schedule.
getting to the point -- and I saw you
at your watch several times, so I know
are ready to go somewhere.
BUSH: No. I've got nothing going
DAYHOFF: We agreed basically with this;
the resources in Newnan's Lake are too
value of one canoe cannot be replaced
a hundred logs if you were to were to remove
And there is no value to the county
County or to the state or anyone else
to the logger taking these logs out.
is a very significant cultural site
the native American people. And it may have
significance than just a place where old
are. It could mean much more. Study may
agree with this, and the thing we are
pleased with is mentioning the
bodies of water because we, through our
history, already know that Orange Lake and
also contain old canoes; and not just
the oral history of the Miccosukee
but my people lived in Cross Creek in
and they used to use the old canoes that
would find, they would latch them together
Catamarans and mount punt guns on them
big cannons to shoot ducks on those lakes
1 to sell to the railroad when the railroad came
So those canoes were found both in
Lake and Lochloosa.
that will be our other fear, is that
save Newnan's, but this moves on to another
and we hope you look at that very
BUSH: Yes, sir.
DAYHOFF: And my colleague, F.K. Jones
Steve Terry, may want to say a brief word
BUSH: Thanks for coming.
TERRY: Governor Bush and Fellow Cabinet
I am Steve Terry. I act as a travel
preservations officer for the Miccosukee
are glad to see that the Department of
has decided to come out and support
Lake to be added to the list of state
bodies for which this type of logging is
and also support their position to
significant cultural resources as a concern
decide whether to list a water body on this
are pleased to see this. We thank you
1 for your support and hope that you come through
this and do the right thing.
BUSH: Thank you, sir.
JONES: Good morning, Governor and
Members. I am F.K. Jones, I am the
director for the Miccosukee Tribe and
been for the last 10 years.
and gentlemen, I am here to speak
the animals. When Indian tribes get
and there is something to be drawed up
the Council that will affect the animals,
has to be appointed to speak for the
because they cannot speak for
logs below the waterline in all times
used for hiding places for young fish.
some of the trophy bass caught in
Lake have used these very logs to hide
their predators; and the algae growth on
log is also at the bottom of the food chain
results in a lot of things being fed.
certain times of the normal years, they
exposed to the surface, and they are used
turtles and alligators to sun themselves.
cool weather -- of course we are in Florida,
1 we don't have cold weather, it's only cool --
warm up. Egrets and herons also perch on
logs, that way they can see their prey
eagles perch there to spread their
so they can dry. The playful otters will
there at night on these very same logs.
animals think it would be better to
the logs where they are resting for so
years, rather than pull them up and drag
out in a way that would not only deprive
animals of the logs, but the destruction of
habitat and prehistoric dugout
you very much. And in closing, I
like to quote Chief Seattle who says:
happens to the animals also happens to
For without the animals, man would die
great loneliness of spirit. All things
you very much.
BUSH: Thank you very much for being
BILLY: Good morning, Governor and
I am not a Seminole tribe, I am not a
1 Miccosukee tribe; I am an independent,
Seminole nation of Florida.
BUSH: Can you state your name for
BILLY: Bobby C. Billy, they call me.
I like to tell you about the history of our
we live in this land over
million years for generation to generation at
time. What I saw earlier, your TV at the
of the meeting, something happened,
September 11. You have a history, you
that. I see all of you crying. You
sad, and you preserve that.
one of our history. We want to
that, because what happened that day,
wasn't any good, as you feel happened to you
And you need to respect that.
early we make agreement, we need
respect each other as to people when you
into our land.
we haven't had that respect. We
had that freedom. We haven't had that
we have made.
lot of our history has been destroyed at
1 this time. Acknowledge them. We gave you a
We give you the food. We give you what
you need to respect us, as the people,
you need to respect the natural
what the Creator have gave us, which is
and air, trees and animals, plants,
give us nourishment. That's what
live on. We need to acknowledge them.
that, we cannot live continuously.
that's what all the wetlands does.
that, I would like to support to save
there. I went there five years ago. They
the lake before everybody
it. And I went there a month ago
the people disturbed that. The lake's
dry, but it happens like that over the
are right, it continues drying. But
will come back a couple years. It happens
that certain times of the year, or certain
it used to happen. It's a natural
You can't control that.
well water will come back. So don't
1 build houses down the wetlands, it will be
that's how I feel, because you are not
cultures have the history. You are not
cultures living on this earth that God
us. So you need to respect all cultures;
way of life, their history of life. And
what God give us, rights to live and
of this land that God gave us.
that's why I would like to say this to
at this time. But right there, it end.
I would like to give you something, what we
between us, whoever give them the
that, I thank you. I hope you
that site. And thank you.
BUSH: Thank you for being here.
DEMING: Good morning, Governor Bush,
of the Cabinet. My name is Joan Deming. I
the Florida Archaeological Council. We
a statewide nonprofit organization of
archaeologists practicing in Florida.
the council advocates the conservation
archaeological resources. And we discourage
1 the destruction of archaeological sites both on
and under water.
brief, for the Governor's benefit, we
to support the protection of native
canoes in Newnan's Lake which is
in the national Register of Historic
And we are very pleased that the
issue has been resolved.
join the Miccosukee and Seminole Tribes
supporting the protection of significant
American sites. And we also advocate
future recovery of deadhead logs from
waters be accompanied by professional
involvement. We thank you.
BUSH: Thank you for being here.
GENGENBACH: Good morning Governor,
I am Marianne Gigenbach and this morning
speak for the Nature Conservancy, Audubon of
and Florida Wildlife Federation.
BUSH: Wow. How did you get that
GENGENBACH: I am not sure how I did that
we are speaking, of course, in support of this
We commend the Department on all the hard
they have done. You have a wonderful
1 opportunity this morning, as is your unique
to preserve a very significant natural
cultural resource for all the citizens of
for all time. And we hope you do. Thank
BUSH: Thank you very much. Any
is a motion and a second. Any other
HARRIS: I just want to say there
an excellent editorial in the Gainesville Sun
the weekend in support of this, and I just
to thank the Department. We always tried
focused on what's best for the State of Florida
natural resources, and I think this will go a
way to preserve that.
BUSH: Are there any objections to
objection, it passes. Thank you
much. Thank you all for coming.
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes.
BUSH: There is a motion and a
Without objection, it's approved.
HERNDON: Item 2 is approval of Treasurer
reappointment of Mr. Don Burton to the
GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
may want to pause here for a little
By the way, Cabinet Members, you might be
to know that I commented on the art
on the walls, how beautiful it looked, and
Butterworth told me he thought it
kind of like the House and Senate
GALLAGHER: The lines the Supreme
BUSH: The lines the Supreme Court
GALLAGHER: Over his objection.
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just a light-hearted note.
HERNDON: Item 3 is a statistical report
where we are with respect to PEORP and the
of the defined contribution plan.
quickly call your attention a couple of
We have mailed out virtually all of the
kits to group one; that's the state
have now have mailed out 233,000 kits
a second group, which is the school board
About 80 percent of the total
of that group have now received
we are beginning to see a growing
as you would expect as volumes pick up
enrollment, phone calls, decisions about to
or to stay and the respective plans and
schedules, and so forth. Again,
that the enrollment does not
begin until June 1st.
the 10,000 or so people who actually
enrollment decisions out of this total of
445,000 that have received their kits are
it before the actual enrollment window
1 opens on June 1st and runs for three months for
employees and then school board employees
by in large, we are pleased with what's
on. We are expecting, and let me just say
comments with respect to PEORP; that
of the nature of the way school
are funded -- some on nine-month
some on 10, some on 12-month
we are anticipating some disconnect
time to time on some of the employee
calculations, because we have not been
to capture that information as clearly as
might like. So we are going to get some
for duplicate kits to correct salary
we have known that going in;
there is just nothing really we
do about it.
we did budget in the program
for some advertising and public
outreach initiatives as we started
get closer and closer to the enrollment
And we are going to go ahead and start
with Ketchum, our public information
1 media firm, to start bringing those to media as
get a little bit closer. So we'll start
that in hopes that we can see some
in enrollment and workshop, sign up
those kinds of things.
by in large, the program is going
smoothly and we haven't really run into
significant problems as far as we know.
BUSH: All right.
HERNDON: Item number 4 is also a status
on the bundled providers and where we are
respect to the contracts.
you will recall, at the last meeting we
highlighted some of the issues
with the bundled providers and the
have had continuing discussion with the
providers who are offering stable value
In the case of three of those bundled
we believe we reached an agreement
specific terms with them regarding the way
stable value funds will operate inside
program and have forwarded contracts to
that include the stable value fund.
the case of one provider, we were not
1 able to reach an accord when we mailed out the
We have since had an exchange of
with ourselves and that bundled
and it does appear as if that
is much, much closer to being
and reached. And we have got a
call scheduled for Friday. We hope
be able to nail down all the specifics then.
we should be in fairly good shape with
to the operation of those four stable
only other item of consequence there
it relates to the bundled provider contracts
that ING Aetna small cap value product.
are working with ING Aetna. They did
four substitutions. We are looking at
that is a good product. Unfortunately we
a little bit of a disagreement on the fees
they want to charge for that product; so
are negotiating with them, and hope to bring
to you a report recommending substitution
that product if we can get the fee structure
line with the rest of the products that are
I think we are in fairly good shape
1 with respect to the bundled providers.
still have other items to negotiate
them. But once we clear this hurdle, it
be a major, major hurdle. And it's
it's taken as long as it has, but
are difficult and complicated and a
at stake. So we have tried to work very
through these issues.
MILLIGAN: Quick question,
talk about restructuring the bundled
nonbundled into a single offering on the
market and stable value products. How
HERNDON: What we were hoping might be
to all of the vendors was essentially
collapsing of their underlying products into a
product; and different providers would take
elements of the stable value product,
of which then combined gave you a whole stable
doesn't appear that there is really
interest in doing that. We thought that
be a reasonable way to strike a balance.
really are not getting many takers on that
in lieu of that, the firms have said
would rather have their own. And if we
overcome some of the concerns you all have
Commissioner Gallagher, on some of
liquidity restrictions, and so forth, then
think we are home free.
in large, those have been resolved. We
got a couple equity/loss issues we are
trying to work through, but we think we
getting much closer.
BUSH: Is there a motion?
HERNDON: It's just for your information.
BUSH: I am sorry.
HERNDON: The next item is to request
authorization to go ahead and provide to all
the clients of the State Board a two month
holiday. It's approximately $3.8 million.
have operated on a 1.75 basis point fee for
years. And depending on volumes and fees,
so forth, that occasionally produces a little
more money in our Administrator Trust Fund
we shoot for, which is a one-year operating
And that's the case in this instance and
1 we can provide all our clients with this
million rebate if that's agreeable to you.
GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
HERNDON: Item number 6, pursuant to your
at the last meeting, where we discussed
potential litigation against Alliance Capital,
have been a number of activities that have
since that time.
lawyers for the State Board, Messers
and Burns, have corresponded at length
counsel for Alliance Capital.
have also been a number of
calls that took place as recently as
night at 5:30 and I had the opportunity to
with the CEO for Alliance Capital in New
sum and substance of all that -- and
is here and happy to comment if you
like -- but the sum and substance of all
is Alliance Capital has shown no interest
a settlement and shown no interest in
us with any information consistent
1 with the request that we had made going back
six months now.
a consequence, my recommendation to you
simply that we move forward and file the
and initiate the litigation. I don't
the value of waiting any longer. Alliance
suggested we wait until after all the
in Texas is completed.
don't know that I will live that long,
I would like to see this process started
finished, if at all possible. .
that's the sum of our recommendations.
be happy to -- as I said, counsel is
they can give you further insight into
of the discussions, and so forth, if you
MILLIGAN: I have been able to
to Tom and see some of the things that have
And while I would hope that these folks
come to the table, doesn't look like they
willing to come to the table. So I think we
to move on it with it and authorize --
BUSH: He took that as a motion.
MILLIGAN: Yes, that was a
BUSH: Moved and second,
endorsed by all three of us, I think.
have been very patient. We allowed the
General's process to work out so as
to conflict that.
have given Alliance a chance to try to
settlement. Now it's time to sue.
is a motion and a second. Without
it's approved, if there is a need
HERNDON: My expectation is that after a
fine tuning, we'll probably be filing that
late this afternoon or tomorrow morning.
HERNDON: Item number 7 is a report by
executive director for the fund activity
for the month of February 2002.
GALLAGHER: Motion to accept.
MILLIGAN: Second; not wild about
GALLAGHER: I move.
BUSH: There is a motion and a
to accept. And without objection, it's
GALLAGHER: I move to withdraw 8 at
BUSH: There is a motion to withdraw
a second. Without objection, the motion is
HERNDON: Governor, as you know, there
has been a whistle blower complaint
against the agency. I am not privy to the
nor could I discuss them if I were.
in light of that, it was our
that we postpone action on this
the slate is clear and clean and you, as
have full knowledge of events. And
that's where we are.
BUSH: I think that's the right
And since the whistle blower process is
to protect the whistle blower, and we
to be respectful of that process, deferring
item is appropriate.
I will tell you what: My own personal
is Tom and Coleman, both of you have
an outstanding job and are worthy of our
1 support. And you have mine.
you all very much.
proceedings concluded at 11:18 a.m.)
OF FLORIDA )
OF LEON )
SANDRA L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR, certify that I
authorized to and did stenographically report the
herein, and that the transcript is a true
complete record of my stenographic notes.
further certify that I am not a relative,
attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
am I a relative or employee of any of the parties'
or counsel connected with the action, nor am I
interested in the action.
my hand and official seal this 15th
of May, 2002.
L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301