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                               T H E   C A B I N E T 
                          S T A T E   O F   F L O R I D A
                        VOTE IN RE:  RESOLUTION RECOMMENDING
                           STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
                              BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
                           INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
                              STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
                        The above agencies came to be heard before 
               THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush 
               presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, 
               The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, 
               July 11, 2000, commencing at approximately 9:17 a.m. 
                                    Reported by:
                                 LAURIE L. GILBERT
                          Registered Professional Reporter
                              Certified Court Reporter
                            Certified Realtime Reporter
                             Registered Merit Reporter
                              Notary Public in and for
                           the State of Florida at Large
                         ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
                                  100 SALEM COURT
                             TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301

2 APPEARANCES: Representing the Florida Cabinet: JEB BUSH Governor BOB CRAWFORD Commissioner of Agriculture BOB MILLIGAN Comptroller KATHERINE HARRIS Secretary of State BOB BUTTERWORTH Attorney General BILL NELSON Treasurer TOM GALLAGHER Commissioner of Education * * * ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
4 July 11, 2000 I N D E X (Continued) ITEM ACTION PAGE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND: (Presented by David B. Struhs, Secretary) 1 Approved 11 2 Approved 96 3 72A Approved 103 72B Approved 103 4 Approved 110 5 Approved 144 6 Approved 93 7 Approved 93 8 Approved 96 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION: (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson, Deputy Commissioner) 1 Approved 145 2 Approved 154 3 Deferred 155 4 Deferred 155 5 Approved 193 6 Approved 193 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 195 * * * ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE RE: MANAGEMENT STUDY/PAROLE COMMISSION 5 July 11, 2000 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:37 a.m.) 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We have a -- a resolution 4 recommending a Management Study for the 5 Parole Commission. 6 General Butterworth? 7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'll move 8 the resolution, Governor. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is Mr. Henry here? 12 MR. HENRY: Yes. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jimmy, do you want to 14 comment briefly about this, or as long as you 15 want. 16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: As long as -- 17 MR. HENRY: Thank you -- 18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- it's brief. 19 MR. HENRY: -- Governor. 20 Thank you for your consideration of my 21 letter requesting this study. Be assured that 22 the Parole Commission stands ready to cooperate 23 with the Corrections Commission, and to provide 24 any requested information. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
VOTE RE: MANAGEMENT STUDY/PAROLE COMMISSION 6 July 11, 2000 1 There is a motion and a second. 2 Any objections? 3 It's approved. 4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I just -- 5 would just add that I hope that the Commission 6 does get input from the Parole Commission as 7 they deliberate, and if they have a consultant, 8 that that would be a part of it. 9 MR. HENRY: Thank you. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely. 11 (The Vote In Re: Resolution Recommending 12 Management Study for Parole Commission Agenda 13 was concluded.) 14 * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: The next Cabinet meeting 2 will be Tuesday, July 25th. 3 And now we have our agenda, the State Board 4 of Administration. 5 Tom, how are you doing? 6 MR. HERNDON: Good, Governor. 7 How are you this morning? 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Life's good. 9 MR. HERNDON: Two items this morning. 10 The first is approval of the minutes of the 11 meeting held June 26th, 2000. 12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move the minutes. 13 TREASURER NELSON: And I second. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 15 Without objection, it's approved. 16 Item 2. 17 MR. HERNDON: And the second is to bring 18 back for your consideration the item that we 19 deferred from the last agenda, which was at 20 that time to report on the potential 21 availability of two financial products that we 22 have been exploring and analyzing. 23 In the intervening period of time since the 24 last Cabinet meeting, we did have an 25 Advisory Council meeting at which time the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8 July 11, 2000 1 Advisory Council voted to not recommend the 2 purchase of either of these two reinsurance 3 products. 4 And the staff of the SBA transmits that 5 recommendation to you, and concurs with that 6 recommendation. 7 And, Governor, I don't believe that 8 officially it would require any action, because 9 your decision to not do anything essentially 10 just moots the issue, and -- and we don't have 11 to do anything further. 12 So -- 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Any comments? 14 Commissioner, you happy? 15 TREASURER NELSON: (Nodding head.) 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General? 17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. 19 MR. HERNDON: And that completes the 20 agenda. 21 Thank you. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. 23 (The State Board of Administration Agenda 24 was concluded.) 25 * * * ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND/WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 9 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Florida Land and Water -- 2 and I'll never be able to pronounce this. I'm 3 going to try it again. 4 -- Adjudicatory -- 5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: There you go. 6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You got it. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Commission. 8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the 9 minutes. 10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 12 Without objection, it's approved. 13 MS. TINKER: Item 2, recommend approval of 14 the proposed final rule establishing the 15 Sampson Creek Community Development District. 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion. 17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 19 Without objection, it's approved. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thanks, T2. 21 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory 22 Commission Agenda was concluded.) 23 * * * 24 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 10 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees. 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the 3 minutes. 4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees. 6 Is anybody here from -- 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Trustees? 8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Looks like there's 9 some job openings. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Most people -- 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. I move that 12 we eliminate -- 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth -- 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the Trustees -- 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- mentioned that -- 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- from this 17 meeting. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- perhaps that was the 19 25 percent that didn't show up. Is that -- 20 Well, this is a first. 21 How about if we move to the State Board of 22 Education while Jose gets on his portable and 23 finds Struhs -- 24 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: He's in the 25 cafeteria. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 11 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's in the cafeteria? 2 Well, let's go -- 3 Commissioner -- Commissioner Gallagher. 4 Never mind. Here he comes. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll be glad to 6 move -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. 8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- right on 9 through the agenda. But we do have the minutes 10 at least moved -- 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and seconded. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and 14 second. 15 Without objection, it's approved. 16 Item 2. 17 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 18 Sorry for the delay. 19 I've -- I've been advised, gentlemen, 20 Madam Secretary, you would like to take the 21 items out of order this morning, and perhaps 22 begin with Items 6, 7, and 8 regarding 23 fiber optic cables. 24 Is that your pleasure? 25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you want to. I ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 12 July 11, 2000 1 don't think we care. 2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That'd be fine. 3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I could care less. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. 5 MR. STRUHS: It is? Okay. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's fine. That'll 7 prob-- clear out the room probably. 8 MR. STRUHS: If that's your pleasure then. 9 Allow me to -- to just give a -- a quick 10 overview, if I might, of these three items. 11 Six and seven are two authorizations -- or 12 recommended authorizations of private easements 13 for fiber optic cables. 14 Item Number 8 is seeking approval of a 15 response to a petition to initiate rulemaking 16 on how the Board of Trustees will ultimately 17 regulate this industry and their use of public 18 land. 19 One of the things I -- I would suggest you 20 may want to consider is perhaps listening to 21 the members of the public in more of a general 22 discussion of all three items combined, because 23 they are, in fact, very related. 24 And a lot of the comments, I think, are 25 going to be similar. And, indeed, a lot of the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 13 July 11, 2000 1 members of the public have signed up to speak 2 on all three items. 3 That may be more efficient, to do it 4 altogether. 5 If I could, just to -- a word from the 6 staff who's been studying this. It's a 7 tremendously exciting opportunity for Florida. 8 Florida has the opportunity to become a 9 nerve center for the communication system of 10 the new century. 11 And on the one hand, we certainly don't 12 want to create any artificial barriers to 13 allowing that to occur; but at the same time, 14 seek to be fully protective of the environment, 15 and also eager to make sure that Florida is 16 fairly compensated for the use of public trust 17 lands. 18 I believe that the staff recommendations 19 are prudent interim measures. They are 20 pro-competition and pro-business, but I also 21 believe fully protective, and would serve well 22 until the Board of Trustees can ultimately 23 adopt permanent policies and -- and 24 regulations. 25 What's your pleasure though in terms of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 14 July 11, 2000 1 hearing from the public, Governor? 2 All together, up front? 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Does anybody -- 4 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. The other thing I -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I think the issues 6 basically -- 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is there anybody 8 against it? 9 I mean, I don't think we need to hear 10 about -- a whole bunch of people talk about why 11 they want to do it, if we already know that. 12 MR. STRUHS: The other thing we have 13 available is a power point presentation that 14 can do a very quick overview of what 15 fiber optic cables are, and what they look 16 like, and how they work. 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, they gave us 18 one, right? Now we know. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, you in a 20 hurry? 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, you want to 22 wait till you get to the charter school. 23 You're going to know why. 24 MR. STRUHS: We don't have to do this, but 25 it's there if -- if you would like it. And it ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 15 July 11, 2000 1 would take probably -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Look, if anybody wants to 3 speak, they're more than happy to speak. 4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Absolutely. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's the rules of the 6 game here. So -- 7 MR. STRUHS: Okay. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that the -- 9 MR. STRUHS: We'll pass on the 10 presentation. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- unless -- unless you all 12 disagree, the issues are -- are similar between 13 the items. And if we can get a sense of why 14 this is important from the people that have 15 traveled up here, I think they ought to be able 16 to speak. 17 MR. STRUHS: Okay. With that then, allow 18 me to -- to start calling folks forward. 19 I'm -- I'm taking it you want to pass on the 20 Power Point presentation? 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. 22 MR. STRUHS: Okay. The -- and I'm just 23 taking -- I'm calling these out in the order in 24 which they appear. 25 So the first one is Ms. Catherine Creese ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 16 July 11, 2000 1 from the Tyco Company. 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That doesn't look 3 like her. She sure -- 4 MR. EARLY: I know you'll -- 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- has changed. 6 MR. EARLY: -- find this hard to believe, 7 but I'm not Catherine Creese. 8 My name -- 9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's a good thing. 10 MR. EARLY: -- is Gary Early, and I 11 represent Tyco. And Ms. Creese called me last 12 night about 8:30 after she'd been on a plane on 13 the runway at Newark International for 4 hours. 14 She's currently on route (sic). I suspect 15 she'll be here, walking in. 16 But -- but I think I'm next on the -- on 17 the list anyway, so I can -- I can speak for 18 Catherine. 19 Governor Bush, members of the Cabinet, I 20 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you 21 today. 22 I do want to express Tyco's appreciation to 23 the efforts of the DEP. I kind of thought we'd 24 have a little presentation. But they've done a 25 very good job in this. It probably didn't go ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 17 July 11, 2000 1 as quickly from the time we submitted our 2 application to today, as we would have liked. 3 But I think given the -- the circumstances 4 that they were facing, I think they did a very 5 good job, and we are very appreciative of 6 them -- of their efforts. 7 We -- we do understand the interests of the 8 State in ensuring that the -- that the 9 State of Florida receives just and equitable 10 compensation for the use of its sovereignty 11 lands, and we do support the staff 12 recommendation fully. 13 It appears to us as though there are two 14 questions that are -- that are driving the 15 issue, both from the Department's standpoint, 16 and I believe some of the public interest 17 groups that are out there. 18 Those are the -- the -- the public-private 19 interest dichotomy as to whether these types 20 of -- of activities should be considered public 21 uses or private uses. And the other is the 22 issue of a fee. 23 We believe that -- that the -- the Cabinet 24 can today approve the staff recommendation and 25 allow both Tyco and Atlantica to commence their ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 18 July 11, 2000 1 projects and to move forward in this very 2 exciting and -- and high tech project, and then 3 address these issues in a more dispassionate 4 context through the con-- through the 5 rulemaking process. 6 And we would ask that the recommendation of 7 the Department to initiate rulemaking to come 8 to a final resolution of -- of public versus 9 private interests, and the issue of a -- of a 10 fair and equitable fee be dealt with in that 11 forum. 12 We have submitted our application as a 13 private easement. We are willing to accept 14 being treated as a private easement for 15 purposes of -- of this application pending 16 upcoming rulemaking. 17 We also have agreed to accept the 18 Department's recommendation of a $5 per linear 19 foot interim enhancement fee, again, with the 20 understanding that we will be allowed to 21 participate in the rulemaking process. 22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Can I ask 23 you a question as you go, or do you want to 24 wait till -- 25 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 19 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you're through? 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please. 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Most of the -- 4 most of the leases that we have for usage of -- 5 of submerged lands are -- are on an annual fee 6 basis. And -- and I notice that some of the 7 other states have annual, some have fixed. 8 You're not locked into one way or the 9 other; is that correct? 10 MR. EARLY: That's correct. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. 12 MR. EARLY: The fee that we're paying now, 13 the $5 per linear foot, is a one-time fee -- 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, wait now. 15 MR. EARLY: -- that will -- 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You -- 17 MR. EARLY: -- ultimately -- 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you -- this is 19 one you're going to pay in lieu of rules that 20 are going to set up what it's actually going to 21 be. 22 MR. EARLY: The -- this is -- we -- we have 23 agreed to -- to be subject to whatever fee 24 arrangement is ultimately determined by the 25 State through the rulemaking process. This is ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 20 July 11, 2000 1 an interim fee. 2 We would hope that -- that if the -- the 3 ultimate fee is less, or -- 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You'll get credit. 5 MR. EARLY: -- if it comes up at a 6 different structure, that we be allowed to -- 7 to credit or structure our payments to -- to 8 fit the rule. 9 But we have agreed, as part of our easement 10 conditions, that -- that whatever is -- is 11 ultimately resolved in the rulemaking process, 12 we will be subjected to. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: General? 14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So, 15 therefore, you're saying here today that -- 16 that no matter what the fees are determined by 17 the rule, you will not appeal that rule. 18 MR. EARLY: That's correct. 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 20 MR. EARLY: We will -- we will be engaged 21 in the rulemaking process. 22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well -- 23 MR. EARLY: We expect to be -- be there. 24 But -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: First. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 21 July 11, 2000 1 MR. EARLY: -- but we have no anticipation 2 that we would -- that we would object. As long 3 as it's a -- again, a competitive -- we want it 4 to be a competitively neutral rule. And -- and 5 I've advised my client that -- that they can 6 expect the -- the activities of the State to -- 7 to treat everybody in an evenhanded manner. 8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, just on 9 that point the -- the Commissioner raised, and 10 maybe this -- David could respond to that. 11 It seems to me like the -- the other 12 alternative would be to hold all fees in 13 abeyance until you go through the rulemaking, 14 so you don't have to come back and adjust. And 15 we know there's going to be fees. 16 And while I think the Department made a 17 good faith stab at what, you know, one -- some 18 of them should be, David, I don't know if -- 19 what you might think about hold-- holding the 20 fees in abeyance until you actually get through 21 the rulemaking, which would then establish the 22 fees. 23 MR. EARLY: I think that's clearly an 24 option. We do have an interest in ensuring 25 that the -- that the public interest groups ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 22 July 11, 2000 1 leave this room today satisfied that the 2 Cabinet has protected the interests that 3 they've expressed. 4 And as long as they feel that they have 5 a -- a say in the process, I guess either way 6 is fine, although I believe that -- that -- 7 that they would -- they would be -- 8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 9 MR. EARLY: -- happier with the staff 10 recommendation. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I don't think 12 anybody here is -- 13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Question. I'm sorry. 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- thinking that 15 there's not going to be a fee. 16 MR. EARLY: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, I think we 18 recognize the use of public lands. It is a 19 profit making operation. 20 MR. EARLY: Certainly. 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And, therefore, 22 we're going to charge something. But we -- 23 MR. EARLY: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I think we need 25 to figure out what and how, whether it's annual ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 23 July 11, 2000 1 or once or -- 2 MR. EARLY: Yeah. We're not going into the 3 rulemaking process with the -- with the 4 expectation that -- that -- that there will not 5 ultimately be a fee assessed. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine. 7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question just 8 concerning the fee. 9 I don't know -- it was really David Struhs, 10 or maybe even you can answer. 11 Are there going to be -- if we had no 12 fee -- it seems like there is -- there is an 13 opportunity to create a disincentive for those 14 who might speculate and be placing cable that, 15 you know, before they really had gotten their 16 financing and other, so I think there is -- is 17 some benefit. 18 I'm not sure about a fee either. I mean, 19 I think that needs to be discussed. 20 But is the rulemaking going to take so long 21 as that -- I mean, we could always -- 22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Six months. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, why don't you 24 describe -- 25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Six months? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 24 July 11, 2000 1 MR. EARLY: I would expect that -- that the 2 rulemaking -- 3 Do you want -- 4 My experience with rulemaking, if the 5 Department files its notice to commence 6 rulemaking expeditiously, then -- then that's 7 something that should be able to -- to go 8 through fairly quickly. 9 It's not a -- a -- a technical issue in 10 which you're going to have battling experts 11 deciding how many parts per million fish can 12 live in. I mean, it's -- it's -- it's really a 13 policy driven, almost purely legislative issue 14 as to -- as to what the appropriate fee should 15 be. 16 So I -- I think it's some -- you know, some 17 workshops would probably be appropriate. But 18 I think the actual rulemaking process should go 19 within a matter of a couple of months. 20 SECRETARY HARRIS: How many applications 21 could we expect in the next six months? 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, why don't you -- 23 MR. STRUHS: Sure. 24 Excuse me. 25 Thank you. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 25 July 11, 2000 1 Mr. Early -- thanks. 2 The -- the rulemaking process would, at the 3 outside, take a year; and optimistically, would 4 be maybe five or six months. 5 It would depend a lot on the kinds of 6 reactions we would get from members of the 7 public. As you know, Florida runs a very 8 transparent and open consultative process, and 9 we try to give everybody as much time as they 10 need. 11 But my -- my best guess would be about five 12 or six months -- 13 SECRETARY HARRIS: And how many 14 applications would you anticipate receiving? 15 MR. STRUHS: Probably half a dozen. 16 About -- about half a dozen. It's hard to 17 predict because -- 18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Half a dozen, what, 19 over the next year? A half a dozen? 20 MR. STRUHS: Probably, yes. 21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But we -- we are 22 just really seeing the tip of the iceberg on -- 23 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on this 25 requirement. And -- and it isn't just about ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 26 July 11, 2000 1 fees here. There are other issues. 2 There's a -- whether we should use a 3 corridor approach, for example, which has 4 tremendous merit, I believe, to be part of the 5 consideration. 6 So we don't want to just say we're hung up 7 on fees, because I -- I'm certainly not hung up 8 on fees. I'm sure we can sort that out. 9 MR. STRUHS: That's right. 10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's a lot of the 11 other policy issues. And -- and you say you'll 12 get this done within a year on the outside. 13 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 14 One of the -- if you -- if I might. A lot 15 of it will depend on ultimately what the 16 Trustees choose to accept as -- as their means 17 of -- of -- of regulating this. We will only 18 make recommendations, and ultimately, you -- 19 you choose which ones you like. 20 Some of the perhaps more innovative kinds 21 of things that you would want to consider, 22 however, if I -- if I could just take a second, 23 would be to, in fact, establish up front where 24 these corridors are. And you design them in a 25 way where you limit or -- or -- or -- or void ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 27 July 11, 2000 1 environmental harm. So we can route them in a 2 way where we don't hit the coral or -- or other 3 sea grass or anything else. 4 And then design them large enough where 5 within that -- within that corridor, you can 6 site multiple cables. And then perhaps 7 something as innovative as -- as not 8 establishing a fee at all, but instead 9 auctioning access to that corridor off. 10 So that, in fact, we're not setting the 11 fee, but we let the market decide what the 12 value is to that public land and let the -- the 13 businesses bid on -- on what the value to them 14 is for a 30-, 40-, whatever is appropriate, 15 50-year lease to that corridor. 16 TREASURER NELSON: Governor. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner. 18 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I think there are 19 some very important public policy questions 20 here. And I'm quite intrigued, David, with 21 what you said about auctioning the corridor 22 off. 23 And what I would not want us to do today, I 24 would reflect the comments of 25 Commissioner Crawford and Secretary Harris, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 28 July 11, 2000 1 that we start setting a fee and set the 2 precedent here. This is such a sensitive 3 issue. Taken to its logical extension, we're 4 talking about a tax on -- on the Internet. 5 Because if we suddenly set a high fee, 6 ultimately you know who is going to pay it. 7 It's going to be the user, and a lot of the 8 users are going to be Internet through these 9 fiber optic cables. 10 And my concern is that we set a precedent 11 from a base fee, which is very nominal, of 12 $2,800, and then you set an enhanced fee that's 13 more than that. And then there's the 14 consideration of a future cable fee that I 15 would prefer to see this discussed in a 16 workshop. 17 And I'm quite intrigued by your idea of 18 auctioning off these corridors. 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- I've 20 got a comment on the corridors. I'm not sure 21 that -- that we should start setting what the 22 corridors are. Because I think that's one of 23 the competitive natures of this business, is 24 that one might want to have a different entry 25 point than we would want to pick for them. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 29 July 11, 2000 1 MR. STRUHS: Uh-hum. 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, all of a 3 sudden we've got Boca Raton as one -- that's 4 been picked. But maybe somebody wants to go 5 into Cocoa Beach or Key West, or who knows 6 where. That's a competitive advantage I think 7 we should let companies make. 8 Also from security-wise. If all the cables 9 go through one corridor, somebody wants to mess 10 them all up, that's a -- 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think -- 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- one good place 13 to do it. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, I think -- at 15 least in my conversations with 16 Secretary Struhs, we were talking about more 17 than one corridor. And it really relates more 18 to the environmental aspects of this. 19 Over the next four or five months, we'll 20 get a good indication from the dozen or so 21 entities that are interested where they want to 22 enter the state. 23 So I -- I think -- I think -- I think we're 24 on the right track. I don't quite -- I'm sure 25 there's a business reason why everybody's ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 30 July 11, 2000 1 interested in the fee or no fee, and I missed 2 the -- missed the point. 3 Since, as I understand it, this rule allows 4 for a change in that at the end through the 5 rulemaking process. 6 MR. STRUHS: Right. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does it relate to the user 8 of the -- of one of the appli-- 9 MR. STRUHS: Governor, I -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I don't know what the 11 deal is. But -- 12 MR. STRUHS: -- I think I might be able to 13 answer that point. 14 Under the -- the current rules, if a 15 company's deemed a public utility -- 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's free. 17 MR. STRUHS: -- there is no fee. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that. 19 MR. STRUHS: And -- and -- and these two 20 applicants have agreed that they are not -- for 21 the purposes of these applications, not seeking 22 to be assessed as a public utility -- or not 23 assessed as a public utility, but, indeed, as 24 a -- as a private venture. 25 A lot of the deliberation I think will ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 31 July 11, 2000 1 focus on whether or not the Cabinet believes 2 there will be public telecommunication 3 monopolies in the future, or not. 4 And -- and if you believe not, then 5 arguably the fees and the -- the policy that 6 you set out here today will send a signal to 7 the telecommunications industry as a whole. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- what is faster? 9 No fee and allow it to be part of the 10 process, or a fee that could be modified 11 through the process? 12 MR. STRUHS: You -- you may actually 13 benefit more from hearing from the audience 14 than from me. 15 But I think Mr. Early made a -- made a 16 point, which is speed is important. And -- and 17 one of the reasons -- I'm surmising why these 18 two applicants are willing to agree to a fee 19 that will then be adjusted later, depending on 20 your policy, is that they want to be able to 21 gain the -- the support of the other advocacy 22 and interest groups. 23 Or at least -- or at least maybe not gain 24 their support, but at least -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think in this field of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 32 July 11, 2000 1 endeavor, six months, compared to a year, is 2 real important, not only for the companies, but 3 from my perspective, for our state. 4 We are -- we are the gateway in the old 5 economy to Latin America, we sure as heck 6 better be the gateway in the new economy. 7 And -- and that means that we need to be wired. 8 We've just gone through an extensive 9 process of -- of leasing out the -- creating an 10 easement for fiber optic cable where the State 11 is going to benefit tremendously in our 12 interstate system. Other companies are 13 privately doing the same thing. We need to 14 connect with the rest of the world. 15 And this is real important. I mean, this 16 is not something that should take time and get 17 tangled up in -- in -- 18 MR. STRUHS: Right. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- lobbying, frankly. 20 I mean, this is something that is an economic 21 development interest, and we need to protect 22 the environment. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we can -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- someone tell me what the 25 quickest way that this can be -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 33 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- done, balancing the 3 interests of the State. That's -- 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we can make 5 it emerg-- do it on an emergency rule basis, 6 and that -- that way they can move it real fast 7 and bring it back to us, you know, in the first 8 September meeting. 9 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. Mr. -- Mr. Gallagher, 10 the -- we can do that. And, indeed, that is 11 one of the -- that's Item 8, which is one of 12 the petitions. And you'll -- you'll hear about 13 that shortly. 14 We'll caution you that under the current 15 rules, regulations developed under emergency 16 rulemaking are effective only, I believe, for 17 60 or 90 days. 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ninety days. 19 MR. STRUHS: Ninety days. 20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Secretary. 22 SECRETARY HARRIS: For -- for the 23 Department of State, this is a -- this is a 24 real passion. You've been the leader -- we're 25 going to be -- Florida wants to be the leader ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 34 July 11, 2000 1 in e-commerce, and -- and in the digital 2 community globally, worldwide 3 telecommunications. 4 We -- we've been working closely with 5 Governor Bush's IT Florida Task Force. We had 6 an ITFLA Task Force for IT 7 Florida-Latin America. And this is -- so speed 8 and timing is absolutely crucial. 9 I -- I guess the -- in terms of the fee, 10 and especially because you're going to go 11 through rulemaking, and you could at the end of 12 the day decide for no fee. 13 One of my concerns has been the number of 14 speculators that might get in that couldn't get 15 their financing, but would have the opportunity 16 to do so right now if -- if there were no fees. 17 So I think the advantage of, quote, a fee 18 up front right now during rulemaking has its 19 advantages that maybe would keep out some of 20 the speculators. 21 But would it be possible -- when we were 22 briefing yesterday -- to have something like a 23 creative solution. And I don't know what the 24 Governor thinks, or anything else, because we 25 just talk about these things here. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 35 July 11, 2000 1 But instead of having a fee at all -- and 2 maybe you could look into something like this, 3 that could be a win-win situation for 4 everybody. 5 -- have the companies, whether it's Tyco or 6 Atlantica, do something extremely -- if -- if 7 this fee turned out to be 500,000 or a million, 8 whatever it is, look at -- look at what the 9 most important project DEP may have underwater 10 opportunities, whether it's coral reefs or what 11 have you, and have -- have these companies 12 actually cre-- do those projects. 13 I mean, if it were an artificial reef, 14 whatever, and it was going to be the amount 15 of a fee we were going to charge. In that 16 vein, these companies could do something very 17 proactive for the environment; Florida could be 18 a leader not only in telecommunications, but 19 also environmentally. 20 And I don't know how the rulemaking would 21 proceed. But if you looked at something that 22 was a very exciting project that -- that they 23 could participate in, that they could create, 24 then maybe there would be even Federal tax 25 incentives to look at it. Something such that ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 36 July 11, 2000 1 across-the-board environmentally would win; 2 we'd far -- we'd more than exceed the 3 mitigation opportunities, we'd actually be 4 doing something very exciting. 5 But then in the same vein, they'd be -- 6 they'd be -- you know, because 7 Commissioner Gallagher said, we would have a 8 fee, this is a profitable venture. Well, why 9 not have them do something very -- very 10 exciting and proactive, rather than charge a 11 fee, so that Florida could be the leader and 12 not have fees at all, but, indeed, we would 13 still be gaining something extraordinary 14 environmentally. 15 And I -- it's a creative solution. It's a 16 little different. But I think it could be 17 win-win across-the-board for everyone if the 18 companies were interested in -- in doing 19 something that way. That way, it would keep 20 out speculators and the speculation, but we'd 21 also have a stellar environmental situation on 22 the coastal areas. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, we may have put the 24 cart before the horse here, starting to ask all 25 these questions. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 37 July 11, 2000 1 Maybe we could get a few people that -- 2 that -- the applicants could -- 3 MR. STRUHS: Right. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- speak a little bit so 5 that -- and then -- 6 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we'll open it back up to 8 questions so -- 9 MR. STRUHS: I'm -- I'm sorry. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we get all the 11 information. 12 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry I took so much time. 13 I didn't intend to. 14 Mr. Tammaro -- Tammaro -- 15 MR. TAMMARO: Tammaro. 16 MR. STRUHS: -- Tammaro, I'm sorry, from 17 AT&T. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're not finished yet? 19 MR. EARLY: I pretty much am. 20 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry. 21 MR. EARLY: I just wanted to reiterate 22 that -- that -- that we do have an interest 23 in -- a significant interest in making sure 24 that this project goes through. 25 We are in the process of bringing cable up ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 38 July 11, 2000 1 the coast of Brazil as we speak, and -- and 2 there are some time exigencies, but -- that we 3 hope that the Cabinet is sensitive to and 4 will -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are they? 6 MR. EARLY: -- realize. 7 Pardon me? 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are the time 9 sensitivities? 10 MR. EARLY: We -- we would like to be able 11 to lay cable, and have the system under the 12 ocean floor before the real heart of the 13 hurricane season hits in September. 14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Wow. 15 MR. EARLY: So we're -- so we're on a -- 16 about a -- about a month schedule. We have 17 the -- the -- the structure is ready to 18 install. And so that -- that's our 19 circumstance -- 20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: As soon as they 21 get approval here, they start drilling. 22 MR. EARLY: As soon as -- that's about -- 23 that's -- that's -- probably not that day, but 24 pretty darn close. 25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So in base of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 39 July 11, 2000 1 that -- for that you need the ease-- easement. 2 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right. 4 MR. EARLY: Yes, sir. 5 And so we -- we do ask that -- that 6 the Board give favorable consideration to the 7 staff recommendation. We do support it. We 8 will participate in the rulemaking and -- and 9 go forward from there. 10 Thank you very much. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 12 Welcome. 13 MR. TAMMARO: Good morning, Governor, 14 members of the Cabinet. 15 My name is Michael Tammaro. I'm with 16 Carlton, Fields law firm. I represent AT&T. 17 We have a little different perspective 18 today than these two immediate applicants. By 19 way of background, our client, AT&T, has been 20 installing or laying -- landing international 21 facilities in Florida for 100 years. It was 22 telegraph; fiber optic cable; and now, 23 of course, it's -- or excuse me -- coaxial; and 24 now it's fiber optic cable. 25 Governor, you asked what would be the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 40 July 11, 2000 1 fastest thing to do here. We, as an entity, 2 our client has relatively little difficulty 3 with moving forward to explore the concept of 4 fees. We understand why staff is under 5 pressure in this way to come to these 6 recommendations. 7 The fastest way would be to approve these 8 two items today; direct rulemaking, as was 9 proposed several years ago by the Trustees, to 10 look at utilities generally, linear facilities 11 for utility generally, because that was the 12 question that was put to them that they 13 ostensibly are following to bring back to you. 14 We are very, very concerned about 15 characterizing these as private -- this 16 tortured method to get to the assessment of 17 fees. 18 For 40 years, over 80 individual 19 precedential decisions right up to last year, 20 when AT&T's Hollywood landing facilities were 21 approved, these have been treated as public 22 purpose projects. Because that's what the rule 23 says, public easement is the appropriate form 24 of authority for public purpose projects such 25 as utilities, bridges, and roads. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 41 July 11, 2000 1 Now, I know that there are a lot of issues, 2 and Mr. Gallagher had raised some of them, 3 concerning whether these are now characterized 4 more as public or private in nature; whether 5 fees should be assessed for necessary -- not 6 just desirable, but necessary navigable water 7 crossings. 8 We think the rulemaking process is the best 9 way to explore those. 10 Highways, public road rights-of-way in this 11 state are open to telecom and power companies 12 for use. Those are held in trust for the 13 public. 14 But 100 years ago, the decision was made 15 that if we went telecommunication and we want 16 power, that this is clearly within the public 17 trust for the highway purposes. It's merely an 18 evolution in form. 19 And we think that same analogy applies to 20 the highways of commerce the public trust 21 document was designed to protect, and that's 22 the waterways of the world. This is a common 23 principal in democracy. Communication is just 24 as protected now, we believe, as it was when 25 communication was carried by ships. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 42 July 11, 2000 1 But that's all for later. We'd be glad to 2 go into the rulemaking process with these 3 arguments that there should not be any fee, 4 there should be a big fee, there should be a 5 small fee. 6 In the end, the fees are passed on to the 7 consumers. I mean, it's not -- you know, these 8 applicants are going to pass them on to their 9 consumers, we're going to pass it on to our 10 consumers. 11 And if there's a little piece of e-mail 12 that comes to the state of Florida, you know, 13 that's a policy decision that y'all are going 14 to have to make. 15 We don't want to sound greedy or overreach 16 on this, we think there's a principal there -- 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I -- 18 MR. TAMMARO: That's all. So -- so I would 19 suggest -- 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's -- let's be real 21 clear here. 22 If the implication is that by suggesting 23 that our property is deserving of some income 24 for the right of its use, that that is taxing 25 the Internet, which is what you just said, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 43 July 11, 2000 1 that's just wrong. That's just -- it -- I -- 2 MR. TAMMARO: Well, sir -- 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That argument is -- 4 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir. Our view -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is a false one. 6 MR. TAMMARO: -- not that it's -- we think 7 there's an argument -- a policy argument. 8 It's not necessary that they're not 9 deserving of some fees. Many states have 10 adopted fees. They adopted fees to address 11 matters within their programs, resource 12 conflicts within the Trustee's programs. They 13 have tied it to the program's administration. 14 But no state has suggested that, as has 15 necessarily been characterized here, to get to 16 the issue of fees, that it's enhanced profit, 17 it's percentage of profit, it's these kinds of 18 things. 19 This is the problem we have fundamentally, 20 philosophically. Not that we issue and we go 21 down the road to look at fees, you know, 22 because there are policy issues either way. 23 We think that it's the method. And the 24 fastest way to get through this process today, 25 in our view, would be to simply approve these ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 44 July 11, 2000 1 items, because we've been through -- AT&T 2 doesn't have a current project in front of you, 3 but we've been here before. When our 4 appraisals for use of State parks come in at 5 $60,000 and we're negotiating with the State, 6 we know the importance of speed and getting to 7 market and having to agree. 8 I think these applicants would necessarily 9 agree to just about anything to get approved 10 today. We're going to live with the 11 ramifications of this, as a state, as the -- as 12 an industry. You know, the issues on fees, is 13 it a signal, is it a subtle signal; you know, 14 how does it affect how the State is viewed in 15 the larger context of e-commerce? Is it worth 16 the couple hundred thousand dollars a year to 17 send this kind of signal? 18 All of these are going to come back to you 19 in a rulemaking form. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Couple hundred thousand a 21 year? Where did you get -- 22 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that number? 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's all this 25 would be for this one. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 45 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. It's not a year. 2 It's -- 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. One-shot 4 actually. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: One shot. 6 SECRETARY HARRIS: For 20 years. 7 MR. TAMMARO: Well, as we expect -- AT&T 8 expects, sir -- I'm sorry -- that -- and all 9 these issues, we expect about one or two cable 10 systems landing in Florida for the next 11 ten years based upon projected demand. 12 So essentially you would be receiving this 13 fee, 100,000, 200,000, if this is -- if the 14 current proposal is -- is -- for about the next 15 ten years. 16 And we don't know where it'll go from 17 there, because these cables that you have in 18 front of you, they increase in capacity in a 19 logarithmic rate. We may not need -- ten years 20 from now, we may not -- may not need any more 21 cables. That's the issue there. 22 So -- 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I've got a 24 question. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 46 July 11, 2000 1 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think that the 3 reason that we weren't charging, and -- and -- 4 is that these utilities were -- were monopolies 5 that -- that there wasn't any competition on. 6 And what we're talking about now, in all of 7 our -- is a highly competitive marketplace. So 8 I think -- 9 MR. TAMMARO: That's -- 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- things have 11 changed. 12 MR. TAMMARO: Well, they have changed. And 13 it's interesting, because the PSC distinction 14 is one that staff has made. And we understand 15 why they're trying to get to a rationale for 16 this. 17 But long distance and international 18 facilities have never been regulated by the 19 PSC. Never. And we have 40 years of history 20 in Florida approving them under this rule. 21 They've never -- they're not subject to 22 PSC jurisdiction. 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But how many 24 companies were competing for these? There was 25 one company laying cable, right? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 47 July 11, 2000 1 MR. TAMMARO: Well, no, not necessarily. 2 There's -- there are members of consortiums. 3 Each one of these cables has 50 to 100 members. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, no. I was 5 talking about AT&T in the past. They're -- 6 MR. TAMMARO: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- they're the 8 only ones that were put-- they hired people to 9 do it, but they were the only ones laying any 10 cable internationally -- 11 MR. TAMMARO: That's true. 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- weren't they? 13 MR. TAMMARO: Well, they -- they contract 14 with other entities to lay the cable for them. 15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right. 16 MR. TAMMARO: They're one of the members. 17 But the point on competition, so that I 18 may, is that there is a certain old think, 19 you know, that -- that PSC regulation imbued 20 with the public interest. 21 But we now have the Florida Statute that 22 governs telecommunication, states that 23 deregulation and pursuit of competition is in 24 the public interest. We're now trying to 25 pursue that as a public interest. Rather than ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 48 July 11, 2000 1 be contrary to the public interest, we think 2 the Federal government's incentives here -- the 3 Federal government and the State governments 4 are passing legislation as fast as they can get 5 it on the books to speed deregulation, speed 6 competition. 7 So we would -- you know, we have this 8 argument -- again, we'll save it for 9 rulemaking. We don't want to do it now. 10 I'm -- 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 12 MR. TAMMARO: -- suggesting that -- 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- but -- but 14 now -- let me tell you what -- 15 MR. TAMMARO: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- what's 17 happening now is going to drive the rulemaking. 18 So, I mean, to -- to hold off and think 19 you're going to do it later -- the things that 20 we're talking about here are going to influence 21 the beginning of this rulemaking. 22 MR. TAMMARO: Well, yes, sir. 23 And, you know, there -- it's complicated. 24 I mean, we could talk about it all day long. 25 But I think that the public -- to come back ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 49 July 11, 2000 1 following a rulemaking proceeding with a public 2 record of comment from industry, from the 3 environmental groups on, (a), whether a fee is 4 appropriate; and (b), how that shou-- fee 5 should be characterized, you will have a more 6 complete record. 7 And all I'm suggesting today is that 8 this -- the Trustees accomplish what staff has 9 asked, approve this item, assess an interim 10 fee. That's a big jump, assessing interim fee. 11 Do it now, subject to rulemaking. 12 That's essentially what -- 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're -- 14 MR. TAMMARO: -- the -- 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you're coming here in 16 support of these -- 17 MR. TAMMARO: Absolutely. Absolutely. 18 I -- you know, we want you to approve these -- 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But not the fee 20 necessarily. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. 22 MR. TAMMARO: I'm sorry. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. 24 MR. TAMMARO: We want you to approve this. 25 You know, we're in support of going to ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 50 July 11, 2000 1 rulemaking and building a public record on the 2 issue of fees. Again, we don't like it. We 3 don't -- we think it's a little bit of small 4 thinking, and not big picture thinking. 5 But in the end, if a universal fee -- a -- 6 a reasonable fee attached to all utilities 7 necessary, navigable water crossings, you know, 8 you want us to stand up here and say that's 9 something we're going to fight till, you know, 10 whatever freezes over. You know, we're not 11 going to like it. We'll -- 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 13 MR. TAMMARO: -- build the site how to 14 approach it, our -- 15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So are you -- 16 MR. TAMMARO: -- clients will. 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- are you 18 planning to go into rulemaking arguing that 19 there should be no fee? Is that what -- 20 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.) 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you're telling 22 us? 23 MR. TAMMARO: We're going to go into 24 rulemaking arguing what we've argued to you 25 through our correspondence that went out for ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 51 July 11, 2000 1 the last several weeks, maybe months, that we 2 think that navigable water crossings by 3 communication is a protected interest under the 4 public trust doctrine, that a reasonable fee -- 5 a per foot, reasonable, one-time fee is 6 definitely a preferable alternative to glomming 7 on to an -- or attempting to get into the 8 enhanced revenue or profit on the theory that 9 these companies are -- are making money off use 10 of submerged lands, because they're not. It's 11 necessary. 12 You can't come from Spain and get to 13 Florida without getting across that last 14 3 miles. 15 So we're going to argue -- yes, sir. We're 16 going to argue -- 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They don't have to 18 come across Florida. They can go another way. 19 MR. TAMMARO: They could go to another 20 state -- 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right. 22 MR. TAMMARO: -- yes -- yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They don't have to 24 come to -- 25 MR. TAMMARO: But every other state has the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 52 July 11, 2000 1 same doctrine Florida does, public trust 2 doctrine. So they'd be faced with the same 3 arguments. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. They -- 5 you're saying -- if what you're saying is true, 6 they could go to another state, if we charge, 7 and get in free -- 8 MR. TAMMARO: The fee's -- 9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- is your 10 argument. 11 MR. TAMMARO: You know, in all honesty, 12 sir, the fees are not going to drive -- 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly. 14 MR. TAMMARO: -- the sites -- 15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And we're talking 16 a couple hundred thousand dollars in a 17 multibillion dollar -- 18 MR. TAMMARO: Right. And that's why I'm 19 saying, it's a signal. It's -- you know, this 20 is the -- the -- you know, the issue of whether 21 Florida -- 22 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.) 23 MR. TAMMARO: -- wants to get a piece of 24 the pie is an issue that needs to be developed 25 in rulemaking. It's just a fee -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 53 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: So your concern -- 2 MR. TAMMARO: -- and that's all it is. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- your concern relates 4 more to a suggestion that somehow we get 5 a piece of the -- a piece of the deal. 6 MR. TAMMARO: Our concern is characterizing 7 these -- 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. I don't think that's 9 been even -- 10 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: None of us have 12 looked at we want a piece of the deal. We're 13 looking at -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now that you've brought 15 that suggestion up, I'm sure someone will look 16 at it. But I don't think that's ever -- 17 MR. TAMMARO: No. It's -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- under consideration. 19 MR. TAMMARO: It's brought up -- if you -- 20 in the background material, the private 21 easement, the basis for assessing fees under 22 the Department's private easement rules is 23 enhanced -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Put aside -- well, I -- 25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, how about -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 54 July 11, 2000 1 look at this, a boat dock, okay? We don't look 2 at how much money the guy's going to make 3 docking the boats. We charge the same amount 4 for everybody on a square foot basis that 5 they're going to be using. 6 MR. TAMMARO: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, if they can't 8 rent it, not our problem. If they rent it and 9 get ten times more than anybody else gets, 10 because everybody wants to have their boat 11 there -- 12 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that doesn't 14 affect us. 15 MR. TAMMARO: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We say, you're 17 using State, publicly owned land, you pay a fee 18 for that. And what we're saying here is that, 19 if you're going to use the public land, you pay 20 a fee for it. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's not too -- 22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's not based -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- moronic to have -- 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- on how much -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- government -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 55 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- profit you're 2 going to make -- 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- invest in take -- take 4 risk. It's -- it's just -- I would -- if that 5 was presented to me, I would -- I would -- I 6 would vote no about taking a percentage of 7 someone's upside in any business for the right 8 of using whatever property that we -- 9 MR. TAMMARO: What we do though -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- have is -- you guys -- 11 I mean, the real world does it all the time in 12 the risk taking world. We're not in that 13 business. We're in the -- 14 MR. TAMMARO: Well, the current lease -- 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- protection of -- of the 16 assets that as Trustees, the Constitution has 17 given us. And that -- I don't think it's ever 18 come up. I don't -- 19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think everybody -- 20 MR. TAMMARO: The State does get a 21 percentage of revenue on leases for marinas. 22 That's how they're charged now. And that's 23 because they're considered private, 24 exclusionary uses which preempt traditional -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is something that's -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 56 July 11, 2000 1 MR. TAMMARO: -- something -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- far different than that. 3 This is in a whole new world. 4 MR. TAMMARO: I agree. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anyway. 6 Any other questions? 7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question -- 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Before we go to the next 9 speaker? 10 Yep. 11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thanks. 12 More than anything, we want to see this 13 become the digital bridge of the Americas. And 14 I think everybody in the audience is going to 15 breathe so much easier after the Governor 16 clarified that we're not interested in getting 17 a piece of the pie. 18 We're looking at the sovereign submerged 19 lands and that kind of fee structure. 20 New Jersey charges over 12 -- $12 a foot. 21 But how would you feel about the -- my 22 question, if instead of a fee, that you could 23 in a proactive way AT&T could do something very 24 positive for the environment so that you could 25 use that -- in your public relations so that ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 57 July 11, 2000 1 you could use that, and not -- and, therefore, 2 Florida wouldn't be charging a fee. 3 I mean, would that be something that -- 4 MR. TAMMARO: Well -- 5 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- you would find -- 6 MR. TAMMARO: -- it actually -- we would -- 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's worse. 8 MR. TAMMARO: It'd actually be -- 9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Worse? 10 MR. TAMMARO: -- comparing apples to 11 oranges. I mean, the environmental -- the 12 Department does a very good job of addressing 13 the environmental issues under its existing 14 program. 15 AT&T dropped a million dollars on 16 mitigation costs down in Hollywood coral reef 17 enhancement and artificial reef programs, 18 et cetera. 19 We would obviously be concerned that if any 20 fee was ultimately adopted, it would stay 21 within the Trustees' budget. I mean, it's -- 22 it would -- I mean, it -- it's -- it's 23 indirectly related. We hate to see a fee that 24 was adopted that would go into the general 25 revenue. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 58 July 11, 2000 1 And philosophically, a reasonable fee that 2 helps the Department and the Trustees do its 3 job, you know, it's not going to be -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions? 5 MR. TAMMARO: That's it. Thank you, sir. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we have other speakers? 7 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 8 We -- we may want to suggest, in the 9 interest of time, to -- to try to keep the 10 remarks limited to -- to new issues, and -- and 11 maybe limit them to -- to 3 minutes? 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure. 13 Or if -- if they don't want to speak, 14 because it's already been said, that's a good 15 thing, too. 16 MR. STRUHS: Okay. Mr. -- Mr. Benedict 17 from Asset Channels. 18 And then after that, Mr. Steve Medina from 19 Public Employees for Environmental 20 Responsibility. 21 MR. BENEDICT: Governor, members of the 22 Cabinet, thank you for the time to speak this 23 morning. 24 My name is Thomas Benedict. I'm 25 Vice-President of Asset Channels, Incorporated. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 59 July 11, 2000 1 We do not have a project before you today. We 2 do -- excuse me -- we do have an application 3 pending at the DEP. We expect it will be 4 before you within the next three to four months 5 at the latest. 6 Therefore, listening to what was said this 7 morning about the time frame for rulemaking, 8 I'm very concerned about the policy 9 applications of what occurs today prior to the 10 completion of any proposed rulemaking. 11 And I agree with a lot of what Mr. Tammaro 12 said, representing AT&T, and I'd like to speak 13 specifically to two issues that are before you 14 today. 15 On the agenda in Item 6, the recommended 16 approval of staff's general recommendations on 17 fiber optic telecommunications, cables, and 18 utility easements. 19 If you look specifically at page 12 of your 20 agenda today under Item 6, in the second full 21 paragraph, they are recommending that in the 22 interim time frame, as we go forward, all 23 fiber optic cable shall be treated as private 24 projects, not public projects. 25 What this appears to do is redefine what a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 60 July 11, 2000 1 public utility is. Currently, public 2 utilities, being an entity that is registered 3 and regulated by the Public Service Commission, 4 are exempt for -- from fees for public 5 projects, by definition. 6 The staff is asking that this be rewritten 7 and say that the subset of public utilities, 8 being fiber optic cables, in the future be 9 subject to fees. 10 I believe the rule currently says that 11 fiber optic cables and utilities are not 12 subject to fees. If after rulemaking that 13 changes, so be it. 14 But they're asking to change the rule 15 through your action today without a formal 16 rulemaking process. 17 We are very concerned, because our project 18 has seven landings in Florida, and we are a 19 public service regulated company in the 20 State of Florida. 21 So inasmuch as we will be before you before 22 the completion of any rulemaking, I would ask 23 that you hold in abeyance the staff's 24 recommendation, especially this one, until the 25 completion of a rulemaking. Because this would ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 61 July 11, 2000 1 greatly affect us before any rulemaking is 2 completed. 3 And as, Governor, you said, timing is of 4 the essence. It is very critical for our 5 project that we move forward. 6 Questions? 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. 8 MR. BENEDICT: Thank you. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Next. 10 MR. MEDINA: Good morning. 11 My name is Steve Medina. I'm Florida 12 counsel for Public Employees for Environmental 13 Responsibility. 14 We were on the list to address all three 15 items. I'll try to make my remarks 16 consolidated into 3 minutes, but that is going 17 to be a little bit difficult. 18 I'll take them in order that -- 6, 7, 19 and 8. 20 First was Tyco. I have a few specific 21 comments about the Tyco application. However, 22 we just broadly want to reserve all our legal 23 and other rights about that. 24 We certainly are going to be against any 25 deferring of payment of fair market value. We ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 62 July 11, 2000 1 think that the fair market value fees ought to 2 be paid up front. 3 We're even concerned -- we're very 4 concerned about the $5 linear foot number that 5 the staff chose, which was basically the 6 midrange of the states. And we would ask you: 7 Why should Florida, even on an interim basis, 8 be at the midrange with all of our fragile 9 coral reefs and other natural resources. 10 For instance, I bring your attention to 11 a -- a California lease where $116,000 per year 12 was assessed for a single line, plus there were 13 measures put in place to protect fishermen and 14 other -- and other competing interests. 15 Will there be a later potential for 16 downward reduction? It sounds like there will. 17 So we're also against and concerned about that. 18 We disagree with the possibility of later 19 on, if these applicants agree to payment of the 20 $5 linear foot, that they could later on have 21 it reduced. 22 We certainly don't think that that sends a 23 good signal. 24 Generally we question going forward with 25 new fiber optic cables until the corridors that ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 63 July 11, 2000 1 the Governor, and others, have -- are -- are 2 mentioning here are established. 3 We especially question where there is no 4 existing need. On two of these six conduits 5 with respect to Tyco, there's no existing 6 contracts for them. So the -- the four 7 additional ones are basically for future 8 purposes. So we question where the need is. 9 On a positive note, we want to give credit 10 where credit's due, and that Tyco, and also 11 Atlantica that I'll mention in a second, they 12 are agreeing to private easement treatment. So 13 they -- they should be applauded for that, 14 because that allows some protections to be in 15 place. 16 Generally, with their White Paper, we see 17 some good points, but we have some concerns 18 particularly on an interim basis. 19 With respect to Atlantica, I would 20 incorporate the same comments as to Tyco. We 21 reserve all our legal and other rights. 22 The only thing I would add on Ty-- on 23 Atlantica is, we would question the water 24 dependency of that project. 25 Under 18-- under Rule 18-21.004(1)(d), ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 64 July 11, 2000 1 activities on sovereignty lands must be limited 2 to what are dependent activities, unless the -- 3 the Board determines that it is in the public 4 interest to -- to allow an exception. 5 Essentially with Atlantica's, you have a 6 north to south -- from New Jersey to Florida 7 line coming down. They're locating it out in 8 the -- in the waters, including State waters, 9 because that's the cheap -- cheaper route, 10 rather than land basing it, as I understand the 11 proposal. 12 So we would question whether that's water 13 dependent, and we question whether that can be 14 approved without a specific Board determination 15 that it's in -- in the public interest to make 16 an exception. 17 And that -- we also are concerned, if it is 18 determined that that is a water dependent 19 approach, and, therefore, can -- can get around 20 the water dependent requirement, then we're 21 going to have that coming up with -- because -- 22 because we understand there's another 23 north/south Atlantica application pending where 24 the applicant does not want to agree to the 25 private easement status. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 65 July 11, 2000 1 So in that situation, not only would the 2 water dependent rule not apply, but no other 3 rules would apply as well. 4 Briefly about the PEER petition. Public 5 Employees for Environmental Responsibility 6 filed an emergency petition because we thought 7 that emergency rules needed to be put in place 8 now, not waiting until you have a problem 9 that -- that could come up. And I'll explain 10 that in a -- in a second. 11 But we believe there is a substantial and 12 continuing imminent risk from not clarifying 13 that fiber optic installation will generally 14 require private easements. We're trying to 15 ensure adequate BOT -- Board of Trustees powers 16 under its rules, as well as protect the public 17 trust. 18 We are concerned about an approach that 19 relies upon DEP only -- in terms of a 20 regulatory review. We recently filed a 21 petition for a special prosecutor in Bay County 22 in the Panama City area. 23 We -- we -- with the Governor last month. 24 We haven't heard anything back from that. And 25 we would certainly like to get some idea about ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 66 July 11, 2000 1 when a response will be given on that. 2 But the point is is that there are problems 3 from a regulatory perspective and how DEP is 4 doing things. Some very serious problems, as 5 that petition points out. 6 But back to this petition. 7 Another problem is that DEP does not 8 traditionally consider where you put things. 9 They only apply their regulatory balancing 10 tests. They do not consider citing type 11 considerations. 12 The 1800 Atlantic case was the 13 First District Court of Appeal case, and 14 basically said that you can mitigate your way 15 out of virtually anything. 16 So what that -- what that says from a 17 permitting perspective with DEP, is that there 18 is no coral reefs too sacred, that you just 19 couldn't put up some artificial reefs out 20 there, and somehow mitigate for that. 21 And we do not think that is what the Board 22 of Trustees needs to do, because this is public 23 property, this is not private property. 24 Now, my -- my core point as to why this is 25 an emergency -- and I'll try to wrap this up. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 67 July 11, 2000 1 I apologize. 2 -- there are provisions under the public 3 easement -- under the private easement rule 4 that are simply not under the public easement 5 rule. 6 So next -- next week or next month, if you 7 have one of these applicants that doesn't want 8 to, like, Tyco and Atlantica, cooperate in 9 terms of this private easement classification, 10 you are highly likely to not have any -- any 11 authority to protect the environment in that 12 situation. 13 And we will be dependent completely upon 14 the regulatory side of DEP. 15 We do not think that is adequately 16 protecting the public trust in exercising your 17 duty. 18 We are also concerned with the payment 19 later strategy. In general, we think that 20 the -- the signals ought to be given up front. 21 And we're concerned about when this rulemaking 22 is going to take place. 23 The potential that there will be everybody 24 lumped in together, and that water and sewer 25 lines by county to go across wetlands will ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 68 July 11, 2000 1 price -- be priced the same as major players in 2 the international telecommunications market 3 going across coral reefs. 4 We certainly think that you ought to price 5 in a very high way things that are 6 unquestionably bad for Florida's natural 7 resources. 8 As a final note, these things are going to 9 be down there a long time, and we believe that 10 this is a very serious issue. 11 And long after we're -- we're gone, these 12 things are going to be down there. They're 13 going to have to be serviced over time, they're 14 going to have to be replaced from time to time, 15 so we think that this is a very important 16 issue. 17 And just urge your -- not rejecting our 18 petition as being not an emergency, because we 19 think there is an emergency when an applicant 20 next week or next month is going to say, you 21 don't have the powers to protect the State. 22 I haven't even talked about their fees 23 really, but you need to get the right fees, 24 too. 25 Thank you. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 69 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 2 MR. MEDINA: Sorry for going so long. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: No problem. 4 I'll -- give me your telephone number so I 5 can give you the response on the 6 special prosecutor thing. 7 I apologize. I didn't know that it was -- 8 MR. MEDINA: Yes, sir. 9 850-- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. 11 MR. MEDINA: --664-0-- --7856. 12 664-7856. 13 Thank you, sir. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 15 MR. STRUHS: Steve Lewis. 16 MR. LEWIS: Governor, members of the Board, 17 my name is Steve Lewis. I'm with the law firm 18 of Lewis, Longman & Walker, and we represent 19 Atlantica, which is Item 7 on your agenda. 20 It's a fiber optic system that's going to 21 run from the northeast, in New Jersey, all the 22 way down to Boca Raton; and then on to the 23 Americas, including Venezuela, Brazil, 24 Argentina, and probably even further. 25 It's a 700 million dollar fully financed ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 70 July 11, 2000 1 project. But it is a compet-- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Seven hundred million, is 3 that what you -- 4 MR. LEWIS: Seven hundred million, which is 5 a lot of bucks. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. 7 MR. LEWIS: We would respectfully request 8 that you approve our item as recommended by the 9 DEP staff. 10 We don't object to receiving this as a 11 private easement. We are comfortable with all 12 of the conditions the DEP has recommended in 13 the permits, including going into minimization 14 in the mitigation that's required. 15 We do not object to an interim fee of 16 $5 per foot. And we are committed to work with 17 the Department and the Board on rule 18 development in addressing fees, and perhaps 19 developing a clearer distinction between what 20 should be a private or public easement. 21 I would raise one point. The corridors 22 have been looked at by a number of 23 jurisdictions. And to date, we're not aware 24 that any jurisdiction has implemented a 25 corridor concept. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 71 July 11, 2000 1 But that doesn't mean that you can't 2 develop in the rule a filtering process or a 3 way to focus generally where these types of -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we can just -- 5 MR. LEWIS: -- to go. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- deny them. If they're 7 not in the corridor, right? I mean, be an easy 8 way of dealing with the issue. 9 MR. LEWIS: The other point that I'd like 10 to make is, is that it was raised -- there was 11 a question raised about the water dependency 12 issue. And this is an international cable 13 system. We have to go through international 14 waters. 15 And we are having a very difficult time 16 understanding why something like this would not 17 be water dependent. 18 The bottom line is is that we're 19 comfortable with DEP recommendations. We think 20 they've tried to balance all the various -- the 21 issues that are out there, and really would 22 respectfully request that you approve our item. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. 24 MR. LEWIS: If you have any questions. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 72 July 11, 2000 1 Any other speakers? 2 MR. STRUHS: We have two, Governor. 3 Susan Langston and then Barry Richard, and 4 then we're done. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Susan. 6 MS. LANGSTON: Good morning. 7 Good morning, Governor, Cabinet members. 8 My name is Susan Langston. I'm 9 Executive Director of the Florida 10 Telecommunications Industry Association. 11 The FTIA is a trade association 12 representing the telecommunications industry in 13 Florida. Our membership consists of incumbent 14 and competitive local exchange providers, 15 long-distance carriers, and wireless providers. 16 In addition to AT&T, our membership 17 includes BellSouth, GTE, Sprint, Alltell, MCI, 18 Progress Telecommunications, Covad, and a 19 number of other telecommunications providers in 20 Florida. 21 I'll be very brief, members. 22 It's -- the issues that have been raised 23 before you today are important issues to the 24 telecommunications industry. We agree with 25 many of the points raised by Michael Tammaro on ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 73 July 11, 2000 1 behalf of AT&T. 2 We think that the issues of the 3 public-private treatment of utilities is one 4 that's important in payment of a fee as well, 5 and we would like to see that go through 6 rulemaking. 7 We also support approval of the petitions 8 that are before you today. 9 I'd be happy to try to answer any questions 10 that you may have. 11 Thank you. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions? 13 Thank you very much. 14 MS. LANGSTON: Thank you for your time. 15 MR. RICHARD: Governor, Cabinet, my name is 16 Barry Richard. I'm with Greenberg, Traurig law 17 firm. And I'm here representing Telefonica, 18 which owns the two cables that would 19 immediately be laid over the easement that Tyco 20 has applied for. 21 My client's sole interest here today has 22 been to eliminate any controversy with regard 23 to those cables, to those applications that are 24 before you today. 25 Those cables are part of a loop that will ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 74 July 11, 2000 1 connect Florida to Puerto Rico and eight other 2 countries. It's critical that that loop be 3 completed as soon as possible, in the interest 4 both of this state and of commerce throughout 5 South America and the United States. 6 We have consequently agreed to an 7 unprecedented interim fee. We have agreed that 8 that fee is not binding upon this Cabinet, it's 9 subject to any rulemaking that the Cabinet 10 subsequently makes. 11 We have agreed to virtually every 12 environmental concern of mitigation that 13 anybody has had, or could have. In fact, we've 14 adopted the very best management methods known 15 to the industry to protect the environment. 16 In short, these applications present 17 nothing to this Cabinet that commits the 18 Cabinet to any position that would tie your 19 hands with regard to the big picture later down 20 the road. 21 And so although I think that many of the 22 issues that have been raised today for purposes 23 of discussion are interesting and are critical, 24 they have nothing to do with these 25 applications. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 75 July 11, 2000 1 And, in fact, if you think about it, 2 nobody, including PEER, has presented to you -- 3 to you this morning, or during the days that 4 we've been involved in this process -- anything 5 that specifically suggests that you ought not 6 to go forward and -- and -- and approve these 7 applications. 8 The one thing that we don't want from the 9 standpoint of our company, and that you don't 10 want from the standpoint of the State of 11 Florida, is for this state to be the glitch in 12 the completion of that loop. 13 And so I -- I urge you to -- to approve 14 these applications, and then permit us to go 15 forward to -- to work on the bigger picture for 16 the future of this state and -- and -- and 17 technology leadership. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir. 19 MR. RICHARD: Thank you. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs? 21 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to -- 23 MR. STRUHS: That -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- wrap -- 25 MR. STRUHS: -- concludes -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 76 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- this up? 2 MR. STRUHS: -- that concludes the 3 speakers. 4 And I suppose you're now ready for the 5 Power Point presentation? 6 No, actually -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that that wry 8 New England humor again? 9 I think so. 10 MR. STRUHS: No. If -- if you -- if you 11 would -- 12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We've had enough of 13 that -- 14 MR. STRUHS: -- if you would like, we can 15 just go through these then in -- in order. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. 17 MR. STRUHS: I'll -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- good idea. 19 MR. STRUHS: -- give you the staff 20 recommendations, and you get to vote. 21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Excuse me, Governor. 22 I've -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- got a question. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, General. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 77 July 11, 2000 1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm obviously 2 interested in the fee process, but I'm sure 3 that'll be resolved as a result of the 4 rulemaking. 5 There are other issues under the 6 rulemaking, one of them being the corridor 7 approach as a possibility. 8 We have two applications right now, one of 9 which is making six entries, I believe, into 10 our coast. Another one is making one entry. 11 I believe Atlantica is only doing one. 12 There are obviously several others in the 13 wings that will want to make entries into our 14 coast. 15 MR. STRUHS: Right. 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If we go forward 17 with the proposal today, are we foreclosing the 18 option to really have a corridor approach? 19 MR. STRUHS: An excellent question, and 20 one -- one that I asked myself. And -- and 21 I think it might be useful to take a minute and 22 allow Mr. Coram from our staff to -- to address 23 that. 24 MR. CORAM: That's a good question. 25 And you'll see part of your item is a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 78 July 11, 2000 1 recommendation that while we evaluate the 2 corridor concept, we only authorize projects 3 for which an applicant can demonstrate that a 4 cable is coming. 5 So in that effort, we're -- we're -- we're 6 trying to get out sort of the speculators that 7 may want to get a project approved and don't 8 have cables coming in. By only authorizing 9 projects for which a cable can be demonstrated, 10 we think we can continue to evaluate the 11 corridor concept. 12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Would there be some 13 merit for -- in terms of the corridor business 14 particularly, less so the fee, in -- in going 15 along with the emergency rule approach to try 16 to define the corridor business, if -- if we 17 want to do it at all? I'm not saying that we 18 necessarily want to do it. 19 But I -- I certainly wouldn't want to see 20 us foreclose that option by having to wait as 21 long as perhaps a year and -- and a number of 22 additional requests for cable entry landings 23 I guess is the right term? 24 Would it be useful to perhaps consider the 25 emergency rulemaking? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 79 July 11, 2000 1 MR. CORAM: We'll have to let our Office of 2 General Counsel address some of the specifics 3 of -- of emergency rulemaking. What you really 4 need when you're in emergency rulemaking, to 5 put the language out immediately. I mean, you 6 can't really have a debate over what that 7 emergency rule should say. 8 On the corridor concept, you know, one is 9 we continue to evaluate the environmental 10 impacts of any cable coming in on a 11 case-by-case basis while the corridor concept 12 is being fleshed out. 13 And so with those two things, one is only 14 approving projects which a cable can be 15 demonstrated, and being able to look at the 16 environmental impacts of each project on a 17 case-by-case basis, we're not precluding, I -- 18 I don't think the corridor -- 19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I look at 20 the Tyco system, for example, which is -- has 21 six entries, two of which, as I just thought I 22 heard, are -- are going to be operative, the 23 other four are not, someone else implied that 24 at least. 25 Again, six entries along -- just along the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 80 July 11, 2000 1 west coast, let alone -- excuse me, along the 2 east coast, let alone, along the west coast, 3 future entries, I think -- I -- I'm not so sure 4 that we aren't -- haven't really tied our hands 5 and -- and foregone the option to even consider 6 a corridor approach. 7 MR. CORAM: Okay. I -- I understand -- 8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, I recognize 9 you're going to apply good -- your good 10 engineering and environmental concerns. 11 But with that said, and I appreciate that 12 you would do that -- with that said, I -- I 13 still see that we may very well no longer have 14 that corridor option, if it's a good option. 15 And I'm not even saying that that's necessarily 16 a good option. 17 But are we, in fact, foregoing it? 18 I think the answer is yes -- or damn near. 19 MR. STRUHS: I -- I think the answer is 20 we're -- we're trying to -- to balance the 21 desire to not create unnecessary barriers to 22 entry. 23 We -- we wanted -- see these -- I mean, I'm 24 assuming the Cabinet wants to see these things 25 do business in Florida and get the cable laid, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 81 July 11, 2000 1 and -- and be on the cutting edge. And we -- 2 we want to advance that agenda. 3 But at the same time, you're -- you're 4 right, General, preserve the option of at least 5 examining on the merits the advantages of -- of 6 a -- of a corridor approach. 7 So it -- it's -- it is a -- it is a bit of 8 a trade-off, but I think -- 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, are -- is there -- 10 is it possible to give a yes or no answer to 11 the General's question? 12 Are we -- are we -- I mean, that's -- 13 MR. STRUHS: It's -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that's the question. 15 MR. STRUHS: No. I mean, it's an excellent 16 question. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's the third time we've 18 heard that. What's the -- what's the excellent 19 answer? 20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How about an 21 excellent answer? 22 MR. STRUHS: The -- the answer is if -- 23 if -- if two or more of these projects are 24 authorized on -- on -- as -- as we are pursuing 25 the development of a corridor option, it may, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 82 July 11, 2000 1 indeed, affect the nature and shape of the 2 corridors that we might ultimately adopt. 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me ask -- let 4 me ask a question. 5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The answer is yes. 6 I mean, there is no question that we are 7 foregoing the flexibility of going to a 8 corridor option that would best serve our 9 interests. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I think what David's 11 saying is that it limits -- it will by 12 definition limit the -- the -- 13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- flexibility of the 15 corridors. But the concept is a good one. 16 And I believe there's a consensus that we 17 should study it very hard, because we don't 18 know what the future looks like, we don't know 19 how many applications we're going to have. 20 There are serious environmental aspects of 21 this, maintenance and other things that we need 22 to look at. 23 So -- 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, if I -- if I 25 thought that we could get this thing done ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 83 July 11, 2000 1 rapidly, instead of the twelve-month outside 2 that I've heard -- 3 MR. STRUHS: Right. 4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- then, you know, I 5 would be more comfortable with the idea that 6 perhaps we won't see a -- a real plethora of 7 requests -- 8 MR. STRUHS: Right. 9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- for -- for cable. 10 MR. STRUHS: Right. 11 If -- if I -- if I might, on a -- on a 12 related point, the -- the DEP really doesn't 13 have any quarrel with the PEER petition in that 14 we recognize, as I think most of us do, that 15 there is a sense of urgency about this. 16 So there's no quarrel over that. The 17 sooner we get clear rules in place, the better 18 off everybody is -- 19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I guess I'm 20 trying to find out, is the PEER emergency 21 approach that they have requested, would that 22 help resolve -- 23 MR. STRUHS: Right. 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the corridor 25 issue -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 84 July 11, 2000 1 MR. STRUHS: Right. 2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- in a more timely 3 fashion. 4 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. And that -- that's -- 5 and that's where I was going. 6 I think we agree that there is a sense of 7 urgency. We can't recommend that there's a 8 sense of emergency. 9 And -- and I think the difference being 10 that if we pursue an emergency rulemaking 11 petition, under the law, we're obligated to put 12 the rules out there immediately for 13 promulgation. 14 And the point is, we don't know what those 15 rules are going to look like because we want to 16 go through this deliberative process first of 17 examining whether or not things like corridors 18 make sense. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, Tom. 20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm a little 21 disappointed here. This -- these applications 22 have been sitting around for a long time. 23 This issue is not a brand new one to the 24 State of Florida, knowing that fiber optics 25 cable was going to be the thing, that was going ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 85 July 11, 2000 1 to get laid across continent, et cetera. 2 Why weren't we working on rules before we 3 have somebody that hurries up and wants to lay 4 a cable? I mean, why weren't we doing this 5 last year? 6 MR. STRUHS: I -- I don't know. 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, we got -- 8 now somebody wants to lay a cable, so now we're 9 going to come up with a rule that takes 10 six months to a year. 11 When they first applied, somebody should 12 have said, we better get rulemaking started 13 right now, because they've applied. And if we 14 work it right, by the time they go through what 15 they're supposed to do, we'll have a rule 16 ready. 17 Instead, they've gone through all what 18 we're supposed to do, and we don't have any 19 idea how we're supposed to charge them, or 20 whether we're supposed to charge them, or -- 21 I mean, to me that's -- that's the real 22 question. 23 How many other things like this do we have 24 floating around? 25 MR. STRUHS: I -- I -- I apologize to you, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 86 July 11, 2000 1 and -- and to the entire Cabinet that perhaps 2 we didn't do as good a job as we might have in 3 anticipating this. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I mean, when 5 the applications came, was there not a question 6 about it being charged or a rule needed? 7 That never came up? 8 MR. STRUHS: I don't know. I -- I only 9 learned about this issue within the last couple 10 of weeks. I wasn't aware of it. 11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, one -- one 12 of our -- 13 MR. STRUHS: But we -- 14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- principal -- 15 MR. STRUHS: -- can learn -- we can learn 16 from this experience obviously. 17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: One of our principal 18 obligations is as Trustees of -- of the public 19 lands. And -- and, frankly, the idea of 20 closing out options, to me, is not a -- really 21 a healthy way of doing business, regardless of 22 the timing. I mean, we -- obviously it's 23 ill-timed. 24 But it -- it -- it does concern me that we 25 are closing out options in terms of our ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 87 July 11, 2000 1 responsibility to protect the -- the public 2 lands. 3 And, again, I'm not even saying that the 4 corridors is a good thing, because I don't 5 know. 6 MR. STRUHS: Right. 7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But I -- I hate to 8 see us just gap it off, which is what we are 9 going to be doing by allowing these things to 10 go forward right now without some consideration 11 in that regard. 12 So I -- I don't know what the answer is. 13 I -- I've asked the question, you've answered 14 it kind of -- a little on the weasely side. 15 But I got -- I understand it, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, if -- if -- 17 you know -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: If I could -- 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- here's the 20 thing. If -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just -- I've got to 22 defend my -- my brother here. 23 I don't think it was weasely. I think he's 24 pointing out that there is -- sometimes in 25 life, there's not yes and no, that sometimes ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 88 July 11, 2000 1 there's something in the middle. 2 And, yes, this will limit the options. 3 There's no -- no question about it. But I 4 don't think he's trying to -- 5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- say something -- 7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I don't have 8 finite diagrams, but I do have a diagram that 9 shows the Tyco -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. 11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- system. And -- 12 and if -- and if that doesn't establish 13 corridors, per se, I don't know what does. 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- yeah, 15 but -- 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And are they the 17 right corridors? 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: What it does is it 19 establishes a corridor to their advantage, 20 because they're going to be running four or six 21 of these conduits, and they're going to use two 22 of them. 23 So bottom line is, if we end up saying this 24 is the corridor, I'm going to go to them and 25 use one of their conduits, instead of trying to ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 89 July 11, 2000 1 put my own in. 2 MR. STRUHS: Right. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And you know what, the 4 State of Florida will benefit. And that's the 5 good news. I mean, we're -- this is important, 6 because we have a responsibility. 7 But the broader issue here is that we're 8 moving to a new economy, we have a network 9 access point that I hope we can put together 10 that will -- will consolidate our position as a 11 state with the rest of the world in a dramatic 12 way that will create income potential for a 13 whole lot of Floridians. 14 And we shouldn't lose sight of this by the 15 fact that this may not be a perfect process. 16 If we slow this down, there are others that are 17 in line that will gladly replace us. 18 I'm going to Atlanta, for example, today. 19 I guarantee you that Georgia is poised to do 20 the exact same thing. There are folks over in 21 Texas that are interested in doing this. 22 And -- and they know the -- the key -- the 23 critical nature of -- of this infrastructure 24 that's in place. 25 So I hope whatever we do, we don't delay in ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 90 July 11, 2000 1 a way that would put us in a -- in an 2 uncompetitive position. 3 MR. STRUHS: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, if 6 I can -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. General. 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you, 9 Governor. 10 David, is it possible to approve the item, 11 but if it turns out that one of these entry 12 points is not a good corridor, that it -- that 13 it can be turned down? 14 How can we -- 15 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. 16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- 17 in essence -- 18 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Man, they're going 20 to start drilling. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, that's 22 the problem. I mean, I -- I don't know. 23 MR. STRUHS: On -- on this issue of 24 corridors -- and I -- I tried to address your 25 question through -- through this answer. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 91 July 11, 2000 1 I think there's three points: One of the 2 reasons we like the idea of corridors is 3 because it provides a better environmental 4 protection. We can say up front where they 5 make sense, and where they don't, and then tell 6 the companies where to put the cable. 7 Another reason I think we like the idea of 8 corridors is that it actually provides more 9 certainty to the applicants in the future. 10 So that as we see more applicants coming in 11 the future, we don't have to start fresh with 12 every application. As long as it's going into 13 that corridor, we know that a lot of the work 14 has already been done, and we'll get these 15 things built faster with less transaction 16 costs. 17 The third potential advantage of -- of the 18 corridor approach is that if the Cabinet 19 determines they want to go down a path where 20 in -- in lieu of a fee, you simply allow access 21 to the corridor on a market basis in terms of 22 an option basis, the corridor provides for the 23 boundaries of that -- that kind of market 24 mechanism. 25 So I think those are the three advantages ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 92 July 11, 2000 1 of the corridor. 2 The specific question you asked is in the 3 interim, if projects are going to be authorized 4 before the establishment of corridors, can we 5 be assured that it's done in a way where we are 6 fully protective of the environment. And the 7 answer is clearly yes. 8 And -- and I can assure you, we'll be 9 vigilant in -- in doing that. 10 I think the answer to -- to 11 General Milligan's question is yes. I mean, 12 it -- it is -- it is going to limit the 13 flexibility. 14 But as long as the siting and the -- the 15 establishment of the interim cables is done 16 correctly, it should not conflict with any 17 future efforts to establish corridors. The 18 future corridors can be established around 19 things that are already permittable because 20 they're protective of the resource. 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But this will 22 certainly be one -- 23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you. I 24 understand that. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 93 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- 2 TREASURER NELSON: Are we ready for action? 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're getting close 4 I think. 5 TREASURER NELSON: Well then, I would move 6 the staff recommendation, setting no precedent, 7 and go to rulemaking. 8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I'll second that. 9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: For 6 -- 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and 7 and -- 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, let me ask 13 you a question. 14 Is that saying that you're putting $5 on 15 it? 16 TREASURER NELSON: The staff 17 recommendation. Yes. 18 MR. STRUHS: And we -- we have three 19 recommendations, obviously, on -- on three 20 items, 6 and 7 being authorizations, and 8 21 being response to the petition. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let's do 6 and 7 23 first, since they're -- or you want to do 24 them -- let's do them separately. 25 Let's do Item 6. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 94 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Do a motion -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner -- 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- on 6 then. 4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor, say aye. 6 THE CABINET: Aye. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed? 8 Number 7. 9 MR. STRUHS: Substitute Item 7 is 10 Atlantica USA. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 7. 12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been moved and 14 seconded. 15 Any objections? 16 It's approved. 17 Will you describe Item 8 for us, David? 18 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 19 Item 8 is the petition from Public 20 Employees for Environmental Responsibility in 21 which they seek to initiate both emergency 22 rulemaking, and standard rulemaking, again, 23 because of the agreed upon sense of urgency 24 surrounding this issue. 25 We believe that at least this -- this may ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 95 July 11, 2000 1 not -- this may not sound -- sound right. But 2 we believe that it's actually not appropriate 3 to utilize these tools, that we agree with PEER 4 in terms of the sense of urgency, but we're not 5 prepared under the emergency rules to actually 6 put regulatory language on the table today. 7 We think that we have to go through the 8 deliberative process with all the parties, 9 including PEER. 10 So we would seek your approval to deny 11 their petition, but to then engage them 12 wholeheartedly in -- in this discussion. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion? 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- 15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I so move. 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. What -- 17 what years -- you're moving that you just 18 discuss and go ahead and make rules? 19 That's what your proposal is? 20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Deny. Deny. 21 MR. STRUHS: We -- we believe that all the 22 speakers you heard from today agreed that 23 they -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Deny it. 25 MR. STRUHS: -- want to participate -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 96 July 11, 2000 1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's 2 right. 3 MR. STRUHS: -- in the normal public 4 process. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, the motion is to 6 deny the petition; is that correct? 7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's -- 8 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That'd be my 10 motion. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded. 14 Any -- any discussion? 15 Any objections? 16 It's approved. 17 Got a lot of work ahead of you. 18 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. It'll be fun. 19 Item 2 is the Zemel option agreement, 20 Charlotte Harbor Flatwoods. 21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion. 22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 24 Without objection, it's approved. 25 MR. STRUHS: Item 3 is the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 97 July 11, 2000 1 Tolle/Fitzpatrick option agreement, Florida 2 Springs Coastal Greenway. 3 Sandra Clinger from Save the Manatee Club 4 had asked if she could speak to this issue. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. 6 Sandra. 7 MS. CLINGER: Good morning. 8 Good morning. 9 I'll keep my comments very brief. 10 I'm just here to speak in support of the 11 acquisition in that area. Crystal River and 12 the Kings Bay Refuge Area have been shown to be 13 one of the most successful areas for manatee 14 protection in the state of Florida. 15 It's one of the only areas where we can 16 clearly demonstrate protection measures are 17 working, and working well. We actually have 18 demonstrated an increasing manatee population 19 in that area. 20 We support this acquisition because we 21 believe it will ensure protection of that 22 resource, and the ecosystem as a whole. 23 Thank you. 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could I ask her a 25 question, Governor, please? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 98 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please. 2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How does that 3 5.5 acre piece, which is on the corner of 27 4 and some other street I guess, or proximate to 5 one, and how does that fit in to the protection 6 of the manatees? 7 MS. CLINGER: I'd have to see a map. 8 I'm sorry. 9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, I thought you 10 were familiar with the property. 11 MS. CLINGER: I'm familiar with the area. 12 I've just been asked to speak in support of it 13 for the Club. 14 I -- I personally only -- 15 Do you have a map? 16 MR. STRUHS: We have a map. 17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, so you don't 18 really know what impact having or not having 19 this piece of property, this 5.5 acres, might 20 mean. 21 MS. CLINGER: I know the upland area 22 surrounding Crystal River are very important to 23 maintaining the integrity of the ecosystem -- 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum. 25 MS. CLINGER: -- as a drainage basin for ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 99 July 11, 2000 1 the system. 2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. 3 Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm -- David, are 5 we getting this -- are we getting this property 6 back so that we can use it in trade again, or 7 what are we doing here? 8 Hmm? 9 MR. STRUHS: You're good. 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is this a 11 tradeable land, like, when we got a deal 12 working, we can just trade this again and buy 13 it back? Or what -- what's the deal? 14 MR. STRUHS: Well, I tell you, I -- I asked 15 the same question, Commissioner. It -- it does 16 seem odd that you would own something, and then 17 trade it, and then want to buy it back. 18 I -- I think though if -- if you look at 19 all the facts and -- and consider it carefully, 20 it's a deal that made sense at the time, and 21 it's one that we would probably do again. 22 But there is a map available in which you 23 can see the large quantity of acreage that was 24 gained by the State in terms of an even trade 25 of land with no additional dollar value ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 100 July 11, 2000 1 attached. 2 So it was -- it was a good trade, and it 3 made sense at the time. 4 Staff advises us that this parcel that we 5 now want to purchase for substantially less 6 than its appraised value actually, I think 88, 7 89 percent, will come -- comp-- complete in -- 8 and even out the -- the boundaries of this 9 property. 10 And even though this particular corner of 11 land is already disturbed in terms of not 12 having destroyed any natural value, that 13 because it is disturbed, it is the ideal spot; 14 and because it's at an intersection, to provide 15 the public access to the interior lands that 16 are set aside for conservation and recreation. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're building a parking 18 lot. 19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: For -- for a 20 million -- we're buying a piece of property for 21 a million dollars to build a parking lot. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: To access a pristine part 23 of the state where manatees are protected so 24 that we can go visit our fellow mammals, which 25 is the good news. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 101 July 11, 2000 1 But this is not -- this is not land that is 2 environmentally sensitive, this is land that if 3 we not -- if we don't purchase it, will be a -- 4 an out parcel next to a mall. 5 SECRETARY HARRIS: A gas station. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Across the street -- 7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- from a mall. 9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and, of course, 10 we will take that off of the tax roles. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep. 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- and the 13 mall can use the parking if they get 14 overflowed, because it's right next door, free. 15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Across the -- 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't -- 17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- street. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- know about that. 19 It's -- it's pretty far away. 20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I just -- I mean, 21 I -- I have less trouble with the other piece 22 of property, because it does make some sense -- 23 MR. STRUHS: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's why they -- 25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 102 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- put it 2 together. 3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- but together, I 4 have a little trouble with that little piece 5 there, and paying a million bucks -- over a 6 million dollars, to put a parking lot in there 7 for -- to support a trail that doesn't yet 8 exist. 9 So I -- I -- I just have difficulty with it 10 personally. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other conversation 12 about the item? 13 Is there a motion? 14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion. 15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second. 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'd -- I'd like to 17 have them handled independently, sir, if you 18 would, the -- 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, sure. 20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 27 -- 72A and 21 72B. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely. 23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Item 3, 72A. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion? 25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 103 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second? 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor, say aye. 4 THE CABINET: Aye. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed? 6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No. 7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Parcel 72B, is there -- 9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a motion? 11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you say no? 13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you say no loud enough? 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. 16 Yes. Yes. I did not say no loud enough. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes, you did say 19 no loud enough. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now you did. 21 There's a motion and a second. 22 All in favor, say aye. 23 THE CABINET: Aye. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed? 25 Thank you. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 104 July 11, 2000 1 MR. STRUHS: Item -- Item 4 is the 2 Save Our Everglades Golden Gate Estates South 3 CARL project. 4 The request is to -- I'm sorry -- it's 5 consideration of a request specifically limited 6 to the portion of the Save Our Everglades 7 Golden Gate Estates CARL Project lying south of 8 I-75. 9 What this item would do is it would 10 authorize the Director of the State Lands to 11 extend offers and approve any contract for the 12 sale and purchase of land pursuant to this law 13 at 5,000 over, or up to a 125 percent of the 14 appraised value, whichever is greater, when the 15 purchase price per parcel does not exceed 16 $50,000. 17 And, secondly, to offer up to 125 percent 18 of the appraised value when the purchase price 19 per parcel exceeds $50,000. 20 This is a project that I think you are all 21 very familiar with. It's something that we 22 called the mega multiparcel approach, where 23 it's a very large piece of property that has 24 been subdivided into very small units. 25 The challenge of -- of, first of all, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 105 July 11, 2000 1 identifying the owners and reaching them and 2 getting them to -- to respond is one that is 3 very time consuming. 4 We've had some good success, but have now 5 reached the point where in order to get more 6 takers and willing sellers, we believe it's 7 prudent to be able to offer this additional 8 incentive. 9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4. 10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I've got a question, 12 Governor. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. 14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- the purchase 15 of -- or -- or the utilization -- the intended 16 use of this property ultimately is dependent on 17 owning all of the property, as I understand it. 18 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And there are 20 96 parcels, as I understand it, that are -- 21 it's not sure perhaps as to the level of their 22 development. But -- 23 MR. STRUHS: Correct. 24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- some of them are 25 developed, some are used for business, some ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 106 July 11, 2000 1 have some sort of facility on it. 2 If you were to acquire these 4,000 I think 3 is the number that's outstanding, 4 4,000 parcels, or 4,000 owners, what do you -- 5 what can -- what confidence do you have in the 6 96 -- before we go to some great expense 7 here -- and -- and I guess, in some respects, 8 try to protect or utilize 15 million dollars 9 that we will lose if we don't use it -- what 10 are -- what are the -- what are the prospects 11 for the 96? 12 Are we -- are we in an eminent domain in a 13 policy that we have that we will not go after 14 someone's property if it's their dwelling -- 15 MR. STRUHS: Right. 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on an 17 eminent domain basis? 18 Are we -- are we in a catch-22 here? 19 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- I don't know if 20 it's a catch-22. But -- but we are sort of 21 midway through a process that was begun long 22 ago. 23 And it's probably worth pulling out this 24 map, if -- if you -- if you could, please. And 25 just bring it right up here. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 107 July 11, 2000 1 The green parcels are the ones already 2 acquired -- 3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum. 4 MR. STRUHS: -- I believe. Is that 5 correct? 6 MR. CORAM: That's correct. 7 MR. STRUHS: And -- and -- 8 Take it right up there, sir. 9 And -- and the white ones are -- are not 10 yet acquired. 11 Clearly we are -- we are well into this -- 12 this program. The desire, of course, is to -- 13 to not waste at lot of time and accelerate it 14 and -- and finish it out. 15 You -- you are correct, General, that there 16 are a number of properties that have been, over 17 the years, developed to some extent or the 18 other. Some legally, and -- and some perhaps 19 not. 20 The policy of the Cabinet as -- as you well 21 know, is to not use, as I understand it, 22 eminent domain, or -- or to condemn property 23 that has been homesteaded. It's a policy that 24 you can, of course, revisit as you see fit at 25 any time in the future. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 108 July 11, 2000 1 But we have been focusing primarily on 2 acquiring those parcels that are -- are not 3 developed -- 4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Where are the 5 96 located, are they scattered throughout, 6 or -- 7 MR. STRUHS: They -- they are scattered. 8 And I gave you a -- I tried to give you a 9 definitive answer to your first question when I 10 said yes. 11 There's always the possibility, as this 12 project winds down, that if some of those 13 parcels are in certain locations, that the 14 engineering could potentially be done so that 15 they could actually -- 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. 17 MR. STRUHS: -- stay on their site. There 18 may be others, however, just like a highway 19 project, where that would be impossible. 20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sure. 21 MR. STRUHS: And I -- I don't think we're 22 quite there yet. I think -- one of the things 23 I would suggest is when you look at a project 24 like this, if -- if this were simply acquiring 25 land for conservation, and it was homesteaded ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 109 July 11, 2000 1 and developed and people were living on it, 2 there was -- it's highly unlikely, I believe, 3 that -- that the Cabinet would consider 4 eminent domain to take somebody's property for 5 that purpose. 6 This is -- is really different in that it's 7 not just acquiring land for conservation. This 8 is really more a public utility. This is -- 9 this is creating a flowage easement. It's more 10 on par with building a bridge, or a highway, or 11 something like that. It's a place to -- to put 12 and move water. 13 So to the extent we can round out the 14 acquisition, design the engineering in a way 15 where we can save perhaps some of the -- the 16 homesteads that are currently out there, 17 they're perhaps on the outskirts. They're 18 recognized in the final analysis that maybe 19 some of the interior that -- that are going to 20 pose a problem. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions? 22 Is there a motion? 23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion. 24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 110 July 11, 2000 1 Without objection? 2 It's approved. 3 MR. STRUHS: And there is one more item. 4 Substitute Item Number 5, Whitley Marine. 5 This is a -- a marina that was 6 substantially damaged by two hurricanes. And 7 the applicant, the Whitley family, represented 8 today by Diane Whitley, would like to 9 essentially reconstruct what was there. 10 It would be the modification of a ten-year 11 sovereignty submerged land lease. And 12 authorization for the severance of 600 cubic 13 yards of sovereign material, and authorized -- 14 authorization for the placement of 192 cubic 15 yards of -- of riprap. 16 I would point out just a couple of 17 extenuating circumstances. The Whitleys are -- 18 are holding a FEMA loan to allow them to 19 rebuild. But the terms of that Federal loan 20 are time limited. So they are under some time 21 pressure there. 22 I would also point out that the City of 23 Cocoa, which is represented here, and would 24 like to speak to the issue, are willing to put 25 in for the first time some manatee speed zones ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 111 July 11, 2000 1 in this immediate vicinity, in an area where 2 they do not currently exist. 3 And they are also at this property 4 proposing to eliminate an existing boat ramp. 5 So you would actually have potentially fewer 6 launchings of boats from this particular 7 property. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Eliminate the only 9 boat ramp, or -- did you say? 10 MR. STRUHS: I think it's the only ramp at 11 this particular property. There -- there is a 12 public ramp nearby. 13 A number of speakers. 14 Sandra Clinger, from whom you've already 15 heard, would like to address this issue. 16 And then we also have the Mayor of the 17 City of Cocoa with us today, Judy Parrish; and 18 a Councilman, Michael Blake; the City Planner, 19 Gary Rogers; and then, finally, the -- the 20 owner of the property would like to speak, 21 Diane Whitley. 22 So if you could cue up in that order, 23 please. 24 MS. CLINGER: Good morning again. 25 My name's Sandra Clinger. Probably not the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 112 July 11, 2000 1 representative you're used to seeing from 2 Save the Manatee Club. I am the East Central 3 Florida Regional Coordinator for the Club. 4 Save the Manatee Club -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, so that's why you 6 didn't know about Citrus County. 7 MS. CLINGER: There you go. Yeah. I -- I 8 do Brevard, Volusia, and Indian River County. 9 Those are my areas of coverage. 10 And I'd like to thank you for the 11 opportunity to express our concerns with regard 12 to this project in Brevard County. 13 Save the Manatee Club's been following this 14 project for several months, due to its location 15 in the most important and most dangerous county 16 for manatees in Florida. 17 I apologize to the Governor and Cabinet and 18 their Aides for the short time frame given to 19 you to review our concerns. Save the Manatee 20 Club had received a commitment from the 21 Department of Environmental Protection, the 22 Director of the Central District Office, that 23 the recommendations of the Fish and Wildlife 24 Conservation Commission, Bureau of Protected 25 Species Management, which are included in your ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 113 July 11, 2000 1 package, would have been included fully in the 2 permit conditions. 3 This is reiterated in your agenda package 4 today, and it is not correct. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is not correct, 6 I'm sorry? 7 MS. CLINGER: It's not correct. The -- in 8 your agenda package, at the bottom sentence in 9 the background information, it lists the 10 Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's 11 recommendations. 12 And the last item says: These items have 13 been included as specific conditions in the 14 environmental resource permit. They have not 15 all been included. They've been modified. 16 As a result of that, Save the Manatee 17 Club -- Save the Manatee Club had been willing 18 to stay out of this one. We would have been 19 happy to stay out of this one, had those 20 conditions been met -- been incorporated fully. 21 In recognition of the hardship that the 22 Whitleys have faced due to the storm damage 23 from the -- from the storms last fall, we were 24 willing to compromise our position and stay out 25 of this, and go along with the recommendations ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 114 July 11, 2000 1 of the Bureau of Protected Species Management. 2 Since DEP has not lived up to that 3 commitment, we're having to present our 4 concerns and put together our concerns in a 5 very short time frame. 6 There's another error in the agenda package 7 you have presented before you. It indicates 8 that this project is in an existing manatee 9 protection speed zone. It is not. 10 It is at least 3 miles from the nearest 11 manatee protection zone to the north, and 12 almost 18 miles from the nearest manatee 13 protection zone to the south. 14 And while I -- I'm very pleased to hear 15 that the City of Cocoa is interested in 16 pursuing manatee protection, any manatee 17 protection boat speed zone proposed for this 18 project would have to be signed and implemented 19 and shown to be effective before we could -- 20 could see that it would offset the potential 21 impacts of this project. 22 Also, the City of Cocoa is limited to their 23 jurisdictional boundary, which is a very 24 limited area around the project, and does not 25 encompass the full boaters' sphere of influence ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 115 July 11, 2000 1 of the site. 2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a 3 question, Governor. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you, 6 Governor. 7 Ma'am, your -- your manatee aerial survey 8 data says -- well, first off, how many manatee 9 do we believe there are -- there are in Florida 10 at this point in time? 11 MS. CLINGER: The most recent minimum 12 count, which is a synoptic survey they do in 13 the winter, indicated 2,222 manatees in 14 Florida. 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Two thousand 16 two hundred and twenty-two. 17 MS. CLINGER: -- twenty-two. 18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 19 MS. CLINGER: Can you believe that? 20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The -- and 21 your note here says that within a 5-mile 22 radius, there were 1210 manatees observed 23 during 26 overflights. 24 MS. CLINGER: That's correct. 25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And as many ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 116 July 11, 2000 1 as 529 manatees have been observed in one day. 2 So that means that within a very, very 3 short distance of this marina is about 4 25 percent of all the manatee in the state of 5 Florida. 6 MS. CLINGER: I'm -- I'm getting to that -- 7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. So 8 I -- I just want you to get to it a little 9 quicker. 10 MS. CLINGER: I'm sorry. 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So, 12 therefore, at the recommendation I think 13 that -- that you're willing to go with 14 originally, was that there be only 59 15 power boats at this point in time. There'd be 16 66 total that can go on the outside, 59 power. 17 But there's also dry storage. And that dry 18 storage would not -- included -- that there are 19 any power boats in the dry storage, it would be 20 in addition to that 59. 21 So your concern is, let's take the 59 now, 22 then do the study, and if it shows that -- 23 that -- that there can be a number of 24 additional power boats in dry storage, you will 25 agree with whatever -- whatever that number is. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 117 July 11, 2000 1 MS. CLINGER: I'm sorry. I didn't 2 understand the -- 3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That -- 4 MS. CLINGER: -- last part. 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: After the 6 study -- 7 MS. CLINGER: Uh-hum. 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- that the 9 FEMA money now must be spent within a certain 10 period of time, or they lose it, and all of us 11 are sympathetic to that. 12 MS. CLINGER: Right. 13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Twenty-five 14 percent of the manatees are within a few miles 15 of this. 16 You are concerned that if there are more 17 than 59 power boats -- 18 MS. CLINGER: At the facility. 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- at the 20 marin-- at the facility, it would be a serious 21 danger to the manatee. That may or may not be 22 the correct number. There may be many more 23 that -- that could be added. 24 So you're saying that you would at this 25 point in time not want any more than 59. But ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 118 July 11, 2000 1 we understand also, there's going to be a 2 study; and after that study, it may very well 3 be increased to a higher number. 4 MS. CLINGER: We're -- we're certainly 5 willing to look at any additional information 6 that the applicant could bring forward to 7 establish that she presently has in the normal 8 course of business more boats existing at that 9 facility than she -- 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. And 11 also the Fish and Wildlife Commission also 12 agree with your position of 59; is that 13 correct? 14 MS. CLINGER: That's correct. 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 16 Thank you. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 18 Any other speakers? 19 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 20 We have the -- the public officials from 21 the City of Cocoa. 22 But -- but I would like to, if I could, 23 just quickly apologize and acknowledge the two 24 errors that were noted. 25 In your briefing, it says is there a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 119 July 11, 2000 1 manatee protection speed zone. The answer 2 there says, yes. 3 Indeed, the -- the answer is no, as I 4 indicated at the beginning of the presentation. 5 But the City of Cocoa has indicated their 6 willingness to -- to impose that speed zone, 7 and that was the reason for the mistake. 8 Later in the briefing, it -- it does talk 9 about the recommendations from the Bureau of 10 Protected Species Management at the Fish and 11 Wildlife Conservation Commission. And it says 12 that these items have been included as specific 13 conditions in the environmental resource 14 permit. That, indeed, is an error. They have 15 not. 16 And -- and I'd like to explain why that 17 error occurred. It was not malicious at all. 18 The -- the difference is there was a 19 confusion in the communications between the two 20 respective offices, because one office was 21 talking about slips -- spaces for boats on the 22 water, and the other was looking at the water 23 and spaces for boats on the land. 24 And it was a simple miscommunication. And 25 the folks who wrote this up believed that they ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 120 July 11, 2000 1 were representing it correctly. After it went 2 to press, it was discovered that there was 3 this -- this difference. 4 And, indeed, I think that difference 5 probably gets to the heart of the issue in 6 terms of what's on the table now is -- is 7 the -- the permit's ability to allow the dry 8 storage of boats on land. 9 But with that, allow me to introduce the 10 Mayor of the City of Cocoa, Judy Parrish. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Mayor. 12 MS. PARRISH: Hi. Thank you. 13 I'd like to thank you for allowing the 14 City of Cocoa to speak to you today, and for 15 the recognition of our Florida Solar Energy 16 Center. We appreciate that. That's also in 17 our city. 18 I'm Judy Parrish. And I'm here speaking on 19 behalf of the City of Cocoa; as well as our 20 Deputy Mayor, Michael Blake; and our City 21 staff, Gary Rogers, in our Community 22 Development Department. 23 The Whitley Marina -- just to summarize it 24 for time's sake -- the marina's importance to 25 our city, it represents a long established ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 121 July 11, 2000 1 small business in our community; it lends 2 economic viability to our quaint, historic 3 main street in downtown; it is a key part of 4 our redevelopment plan; and it ensures public 5 access and understanding of a wonderful natural 6 resource for our community. 7 It's been a key element in the history of 8 our city for hundreds of years. And this 9 marina has been a -- a vital part of that, and 10 we'd like to keep that. 11 We feel some of the issues being raised 12 are -- are local issues, and should probably be 13 decided locally. 14 And I'm going to defer any detailed 15 questions that you may have to the DEP or to 16 Mrs. Diane Whitley regarding the marina. 17 We did want you to know that the City 18 supports this, and hope that you will help us 19 keep this viable asset to the history of our 20 community, and approve the permit as 21 recommended, and restore this marina. 22 Thank you. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor. 24 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.) 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other speakers? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 122 July 11, 2000 1 David, any other speakers? 2 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 3 Michael Blake. 4 MR. BLAKE: Yes, sir. 5 Good morning, Governor Bush, Cabinet 6 members. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning. 8 MR. BLAKE: My name is Michael C. Blake. 9 I'm the Deputy Mayor of Cocoa. 10 I would like to speak in reference not only 11 as an elected official, but an individual that 12 was born and reared in the great city of Cocoa. 13 And the Whitleys have been an instrumental 14 icon in the great city of Cocoa. They've been 15 established there for 30 years, and we as 16 citizens of Cocoa is asking of your undying 17 support to support our issues and the Whitleys' 18 permits, please. 19 And I would be remiss if I wouldn't say 20 this, sir. In the big circle of life, there 21 are a inner circle. And in this inner circle 22 are people who does not include us. 23 But to me, to expand myself, I expanded my 24 circle to engulf all those individuals. So 25 we're asking you to be -- let us be a part of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 123 July 11, 2000 1 this. 2 And thank you for your support. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 4 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.) 5 MR. ROGERS: Yes. 6 Good morning, Governor, members of the 7 Cabinet, ladies and gentlemen. 8 I'm Gary Rogers. I'm the Development 9 Manager for the City of Cocoa. I simply wanted 10 to let you know that at the time when I 11 reinstruct, we were in the process of 12 completing a waterfront boardwalk on what I 13 will call the southern half of our downtown 14 area. 15 It was State resources that allowed us to 16 build that boardwalk. And at the time we were 17 literally in negotiations with the Whitleys to 18 secure rights to cross their lands to create 19 further public access by extending our 20 boardwalk some 900 feet northward. 21 Irene not only put the Whitleys out of 22 operation, they damaged the objectives of our 23 downtown redevelopment plan, and our successful 24 pursuit of public access for Florida's waters. 25 Because this project relies upon the permit ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 124 July 11, 2000 1 authority that you have here today, and because 2 there is additional future public access 3 assured by the approval we're seeking, I rise 4 today to ask you to please lend your support to 5 what's before you today. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 7 MR. STRUHS: The last -- last -- the last 8 speaker is Ms. Diane Whitley from 9 Whitley Marine. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Ms. Whitley. 11 MS. WHITLEY: Good morning, Governor and 12 Cabinet members. And thank you for the 13 opportunity to come here and speak before you 14 today. 15 And also I would like to say thank you to 16 Misty for that great speech which gave me 17 inspiration to be able to stand here and not 18 quaver. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's nothing to be 20 worried about. We're happy you came all the 21 way up. 22 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you. 23 I would just like to ask this body to 24 approve the permit as recommended by the DEP. 25 We have worked very hard with the DEP and with ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 125 July 11, 2000 1 many other people, the -- the Aides -- the 2 Cabinet Aides here, the DEP to bring forth a 3 very good project that will hold for the next 4 20 years hopefully without any hurricane 5 damage. And we feel it is very environmentally 6 friendly. 7 And we would appreciate your support. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 9 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you very much. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: General? 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have 12 one question, and it's not an unfriendly 13 question. 14 The -- how many power boats do you have now 15 in dry storage, or do you anticipate having in 16 dry storage? 17 MS. WHITLEY: Are you asking me how many we 18 have at this day at this moment, or what our 19 capacity is, or what we may have ever had at 20 one time? 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any of those. 23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Any -- any 24 of those. Just give me some idea. I mean, 25 I -- because from what I understand, you have ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 126 July 11, 2000 1 agreed that if there's a study done, and 2 X number of power boats can be there, whether 3 it be dry or wet, that you agree with that 4 number; is that correct? Or -- 5 MS. WHITLEY: No, sir. 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 7 MS. WHITLEY: That is not my understanding. 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 9 MS. WHITLEY: I -- I think that -- that 10 that leads to the question of placing some 11 limit on the uplands, whether it's eight boats, 12 twenty boats, thirty boats, or -- or whatever. 13 And I believe there are systems in place 14 that address limitations on the uplands. That 15 would be zoning; comprehensive use plan; and 16 also the process of the DRI, which affects the 17 uplands. 18 And so what I would be asking of this Board 19 is to allow the lease to go forward with the 20 limitations that the DEP has recommended. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They have no 22 limitations. 23 MS. WHITLEY: Yes, they do. 24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What are the 25 limitations? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 127 July 11, 2000 1 MS. WHITLEY: The limitations are a total 2 of 66 vessels. We used to be able to 3 accommodate a minimum of 74, and possibly more. 4 Forty-seven of those sixty-six vessels are 5 permanent slips. We used to have 50 permanent 6 slips, of which 46 were certified as being 7 available to the public on a first-come, 8 first-served basis. 9 And we have no limits whatsoever at this 10 point on our uplands as to what utilization can 11 be made of them. 12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 13 MS. WHITLEY: And I -- I would hope that 14 the occasion of our hardship created by the 15 hurricane would not be used to force 16 restrictions on us that don't exist, and 17 perhaps should come under another venue. 18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: My concern 19 is, Governor, and Cabinet members, that the 20 Fish and Wildlife Commission have -- have -- 21 have a great deal of concern here, it appears, 22 and -- and -- and that's my problem with this. 23 I -- I -- I have no idea as to how many 24 boats should be in the uplands. And as 25 Commissioner Nelson has stated, a lot of these ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 128 July 11, 2000 1 manatee cannot even get over to your -- your 2 part of the waterway. 3 But I just have a little bit of concern 4 with -- with it being unlimited. That's my -- 5 I mean -- and maybe unlimited -- 6 MS. WHITLEY: We're not unlimited, sir. If 7 you -- 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, yeah. 9 But -- 10 MS. WHITLEY: -- were to -- 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- but so 12 far as we're concerned up here, we -- we have 13 no more authority. Once we approve, it's over. 14 MS. WHITLEY: No, sir. 15 If we were to try to build the -- the 16 thing -- the thing I think that they fear most, 17 which would be a dry stack facility -- 18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right. 19 MS. WHITLEY: -- that would accommodate 20 many power boats -- 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right. 22 MS. WHITLEY: -- we would be subject to the 23 DRI process. 24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But 25 that's -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 129 July 11, 2000 1 MS. WHITLEY: A threshold limitation on -- 2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- compare 3 the -- 4 MS. WHITLEY: -- the uplands. 5 But also the -- the submerged land and the 6 uplands limitations join to create the 7 thresholds that would be -- that would come 8 into play. 9 So we would have to go through that entire 10 process. We couldn't simply just get a permit 11 from the City and go build an access point for 12 100 boats. 13 However -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much acre-- how much 15 upland acreage do you have? 16 MS. WHITLEY: We have roughly -- 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: A lot. 18 MS. WHITLEY: -- two-and-a-half acres. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two-and-a-half? 20 MS. WHITLEY: Yes. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: So how are you going to do 22 a DRI, just out of curiosity? 23 Isn't there a thresh-- 24 MS. WHITLEY: Well, we have no -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- isn't there -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 130 July 11, 2000 1 MS. WHITLEY: -- we have -- understand, we 2 have no plans to build a dry stack facility. 3 What we're asking is that you not limit 4 the -- the potential of our property and damage 5 its value by placing restrictions that may 6 never -- that may be a moot point. They may 7 never come into play. 8 We have no present intentions whatsoever of 9 increasing the power boat capacity, if you 10 will. 11 In fact, our goal is to step in another 12 direction entirely. What we're really saying 13 is that we would still like to have the 14 flexibility to utilize our property, or even 15 sell it to somebody else, for marine purposes. 16 And we feel that the protections that the 17 Save the Manatee Club is seeking are valid, but 18 adequately addressed through other processes on 19 the uplands. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: General. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I 22 have no doubt at all about what you're saying 23 is accurate, and -- and you have no intent 24 probably to -- to stack. On two-and-a-half 25 acres, you can do an awful lot of stacking. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 131 July 11, 2000 1 You've been here now for 30 years. Do you 2 plan on selling this facility? 3 MS. WHITLEY: We have been attempting to 4 market it for a number of years. There -- 5 unfortunately, marinas do not attract 6 investment dollars in the state of Florida 7 right now. 8 The limitations that are being placed on 9 them, and are attempted to be placed on them 10 are a factor that is driving investment money 11 away from us. We may be there until we are 12 forced to walk out on the docks with a walker 13 in our eighties, if -- if things continue the 14 way they are. 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What -- what 16 is the maximum number of power boats you've had 17 in wet and dry storage at any given time? 18 MS. WHITLEY: It -- it -- you know, until a 19 couple of weeks ago, I was never -- this 20 question was never brought to my attention. 21 It's not something that I have gone out and -- 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you -- 23 MS. WHITLEY: -- counted. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: But just a -- a guesstimate 25 of the capacity on the dry storage side. You ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 132 July 11, 2000 1 told us what the marina storage was. 2 What -- what is the current dry storage 3 capacity? 4 MS. WHITLEY: What size boats? 5 We -- we have -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: In numbers of units, how 7 about that? Just -- 8 MS. WHITLEY: Well, it depends on the size 9 of the boat -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Give me a range. 11 MS. WHITLEY: -- that we could put there. 12 We normally deal in very large boats. But 13 we also deal in some smaller boats. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think -- I think 15 Attorney General Butterworth is interested, is 16 it bigger than a bread basket, or is it a -- 17 I mean, it doesn't have to be the exact number. 18 Is -- just the scale and scope of what -- 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't want 20 to hurt you -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Help -- 22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- I -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- he's trying to -- 24 MS. WHITLEY: Are you asking me -- well, 25 see, you have to remember, 30 years ago we ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 133 July 11, 2000 1 started in business actually manufacturing 2 custom ski and racing power boats. 3 And then we evolved over the years into 4 retailing power boats, large trawlers and 5 cruisers. 6 Then we evolved away from the retailing of 7 power boats into the retailing of sailboats. 8 And now we're retailing even further away 9 from the marine business on the uplands. 10 But our -- our plans are not final, and we 11 don't want to lose -- we don't want to burn our 12 bridges behind us and have the flexibility and 13 use of our property denied to us for the marine 14 business. 15 But we are attempting to move away from 16 that usage on the uplands. 17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, 18 thank you. 19 I -- I don't want you to lose the FEMA 20 money. My only concern is -- and I have no 21 idea what the real number should be. 22 But when -- when our Protected -- when our 23 Bureau of Protected Species Management has real 24 problems, I personally have a problem. 25 I would like to offer a suggestion, that -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 134 July 11, 2000 1 how many do you have in there now? I mean, 2 you -- you probably have no boats there now, 3 because your facility is pretty much -- 4 MS. WHITLEY: Well, in the mar-- in the 5 water, it's fairly limited right now -- 6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right. 7 MS. WHITLEY: -- as to the number. But on 8 land, we do have a number of boats. 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How many do 10 you have on the land -- 11 MS. WHITLEY: To -- 12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- right 13 now? 14 MS. WHITLEY: -- to answer you 15 historically, both inside our building and in 16 our yard -- and, again, you would have to -- we 17 would have to know whether you're referring to 18 boats that were in storage; or boats that were 19 there for repair, because we also repair boats. 20 We're a boat yard. And boats that were there 21 in inventory that were being brokered and held 22 for sale. 23 But total number of vessels for all 24 purposes, I would venture to say 34, to -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 135 July 11, 2000 1 MS. WHITLEY: -- 40. Somewhere in there. 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you hear that? 3 Thirty-four to forty. Got an answer. 4 MS. WHITLEY: However, that is not -- that 5 is not the limit of the number of boats that we 6 could put there. That's -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand. I 8 understand. It -- 9 MS. WHITLEY: -- a mix of large -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the point -- 11 MS. WHITLEY: -- and small boats. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- your point has been 13 crystal clear, that you do not want us to 14 encumber the value of your property. That's 15 basically what you're saying. 16 But the -- the Attorney General was trying 17 to give you some slack by just getting some 18 real world considerations put into the 19 conversation about what you currently operate 20 in terms of dry boat storage; and you answered 21 it, and we appreciate it. 22 Thank you. 23 Any other questions? 24 Yes, Commissioner. 25 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I think ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 136 July 11, 2000 1 that -- well, first of all, I'd like to move 2 the staff recommendation by DEP. 3 And further that we direct DEP to sit down 4 with all the interested parties to discuss the 5 common ground that it can be reached so that 6 this marina can be rebuilt, and the needs of 7 the manatees in the area also be taken into 8 consideration. 9 And in moving the staff recommendation, I 10 want to thank the efforts of the Save the 11 Manatee Club; the Whitleys; the Fish and 12 Wildlife Commission; the staff; and 13 Mrs. Garfein, the District Director of the 14 DEP's Central District. 15 Governor, I believe the Whitleys have been 16 good stewards of the natural resources of this 17 area. I think they have expressed their good 18 faith. They were destroyed by a natural act of 19 the hurricane. 20 And yet, at the same time, we're concerned 21 also about the protection of the environment 22 and the endangered manatee. As the 23 Attorney General had mentioned, within this 24 5-mile radius, there are an awful lot of 25 manatee. But many of them on this map that has ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 137 July 11, 2000 1 been handed out are up in Sykes Creek and the 2 Banana River, which save for a manatee coming 3 across the barge canal, could not get into the 4 Indian River. 5 And yet, it is a unique situation. And 6 I believe that it can be favorably resolved for 7 all concerned here. 8 So I move the staff recommendation. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I second that. 11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have 12 one question, Governor, if I can. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please. 14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And that is, 15 the last thing you want is somebody to appeal 16 what's happening today. If they do that, 17 your -- your FEMA money is going back to 18 Washington. 19 So as I understand the Commissioner's 20 motion, it is for everybody to sit down and 21 work out some type of resolution. 22 Is that correct, Commissioner? 23 TREASURER NELSON: Yes. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Including the speed zone, 25 which was not -- which was committed to orally, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 138 July 11, 2000 1 but I didn't see it in the -- in the -- in the 2 actual -- 3 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I'd like to hear 4 DEP on that, because I didn't have a 5 specific -- 6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think the City -- 7 TREASURER NELSON: Ms. Gar-- 8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- was going to -- 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: The City was committing to 10 do that. I just -- shouldn't that be part, 11 since there was a commitment that the City 12 was -- 13 Yes, ma'am. 14 MS. WHITLEY: I would like to say that the 15 City was intending to offer that to the 16 Save the Manatee Club for a little flexibility 17 on their part, which so far we have not seen 18 any evidence of. 19 But we would hope that they would come to 20 this table with some open-minded -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I think they will. 22 MS. WHITLEY: -- flexibility. 23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Might -- might 24 trade the -- the speed limit for the appeal, 25 I guess. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 139 July 11, 2000 1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I don't 2 know. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You might want to hire 4 Commissioner Crawford -- 5 Any other discussion? 6 TREASURER NELSON: Well, let's -- let's 7 hear from DEP on -- 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. 9 TREASURER NELSON: -- your issue. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: On the speed zone. 11 MS. WHITLEY: Thank you very much. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Or the Mayor, for that 13 matter. 14 Yes, ma'am. 15 MS. PARRISH: DEP can also speak on this 16 issue. I just -- since it did pertain to the 17 City. 18 If granting a slow speed zone would help be 19 a solution to some of the concerns, we'd be 20 willing to -- to offer that, and have offered 21 that. And will stand behind it. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs? 23 MR. STRUHS: We would be happy to 24 facilitate a discussion between all the parties 25 to see if we can't resolve these -- these few ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 140 July 11, 2000 1 outstanding issues in a timely way. 2 There's another representative here from 3 the Save the Manatee Club who just tugged at my 4 sleeve, and -- and would like to -- to add just 5 a bit more to -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just a tiny -- 7 MR. KARNAS: Thank you. 8 Thank you, David. 9 Governor and Cabinet, I just -- a couple 10 things I wanted to address real quickly. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who are -- what's your 12 name? 13 MR. KARNAS: I'm sorry. Jerry Karnas -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jerry. 15 MR. KARNAS: -- Save the Manatee Club. 16 I'm Assistant Government Relations for the 17 Club. 18 There's a couple of issues here. 19 One is we that very much appreciate 20 Treasurer Nelson's, you know, motion to have us 21 sit down with -- with all interested parties 22 and try to resolve, you know, our differences. 23 One important aspect of that though, we 24 would like to see protected species 25 recommendation taken in that interim as the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 141 July 11, 2000 1 interim approval of their recommendation in 2 case of the fact that we cannot come to a 3 resolution. 4 In that case, the manatees are afforded the 5 protection that they so desperately need in 6 this area. And -- and in -- so that -- 7 that's -- that's our real stance on it. 8 We are willing to come to the table and 9 talk, you know, with all interested parties. 10 But without any assurance that the manatees in 11 this area are going to be protected, and that, 12 you know, see -- there's a -- been an influx of 13 new documentation here. 14 If Mrs. Whitley seriously does have more 15 boats than she's had in the past on her 16 property, we are more than willing to look at 17 that. But Protected Species made a 18 recommendation on what she furnished them. 19 So if there's a change in that, there seems 20 like, you know, this is another one of the 21 major flaws in the item. So we would like to 22 have Protected Species as an interim measure 23 approve their recommendation, and then we move 24 on and will have -- we will make our commitment 25 to discuss -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 142 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't even know what 2 Protec-- is this a division of some -- 3 MR. KARNAS: Yeah. Bureau of -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- part of our government? 5 MR. KARNAS: -- Protected Species. 6 I'm sorry, Governor. Bureau of Protected 7 Species. 8 -- take their recommendation. And then 9 we'll sit down with all parties, and -- and 10 then we'll make another recommendation for a 11 total number of boats. But, you know -- 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. 13 MR. KARNAS: That's -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 15 MR. STRUHS: The -- the Florida Fish and 16 Wildlife Conservation Commission, which is 17 where that Bureau of -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 19 MR. STRUHS: -- Protected Species now 20 lives, made -- made six recommendations for -- 21 for the DEP permit. 22 My guess, having heard the conversation 23 here this morning, is that five of those would 24 be acceptable to all the parties. 25 The one that is at issue, of course, is a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 143 July 11, 2000 1 limitation on the total number of power boats 2 allowed in both wet and dry storage to the 3 lessee. 4 And -- and this, in part, is a -- is a 5 result of an honest communications mistake 6 between two different organizations not 7 distinguishing clearly between wet and dry 8 storage. And -- and I apologize for that. 9 Before we -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion -- 11 MR. STRUHS: Before -- 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on -- 13 MR. STRUHS: -- before we go forward with 14 the motion, I -- I think -- I think we need to 15 know whether or not the Whitleys are going 16 to -- to agree to -- to the motion that would 17 adopt the Fish and Wildlife numbers as -- as 18 the interim -- 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, no one has made that 20 suggestion. It was a -- the Save the Manatee 21 made that offer. I haven't heard an amendment 22 to the resolution. 23 So you don't have to do anything. 24 MR. STRUHS: Okay. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion on the -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 144 July 11, 2000 1 on the -- we've had a motion and a second. 2 Any other discussion? 3 All in favor, say aye. 4 THE CABINET: Aye. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed? 6 Motion passes. 7 MR. STRUHS: We're done. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. 9 MR. STRUHS: Thank you. 10 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal 11 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.) 12 * * * 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 145 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, but 2 Education's still left. 3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. Thanks. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, it's important. 5 I've got a plane to catch. 6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Governor, 7 I'm ready to move the minutes for Education 8 here. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a -- is there a 10 second? 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- May 23rd -- 12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- meeting. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 15 Without objection, it's approved. 16 (Secretary Harris and Treasurer Nelson 17 exited the room.) 18 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 -- 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 2. 20 MR. PIERSON: -- is a district charter 21 proposal for Volusia County. This item was 22 deferred from the June 26th, 2000, meeting. 23 Betty Coxe will speak for the Department. 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And let me say, 25 Governor, that it's taken a while to get here, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 146 July 11, 2000 1 but it's pretty exciting, because Volusia truly 2 has worked -- worked well with us. And this 3 looks like we'll be the first charter district 4 in the whole country if we approve it today. 5 So, Betty. 6 MS. COXE: Governor, members of -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Betty. 8 MS. COXE: -- the State Board. It's good 9 to see you today. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: How are you doing? 11 MS. COXE: Fine, sir. It's an exciting 12 day. 13 Item 2 seeks your approval of a charter 14 school district proposal for the Volusia County 15 Public Schools, and to enter into a performance 16 contract with them. 17 At the last meeting, you heard a 18 presentation about this plan to increase 19 student achievement, and to enhance school 20 management flexibility. 21 The performance goals of this contract are 22 ambitious: They call for every Volusia County 23 school to earn a grade of A or B within 24 three years; they call for progressively higher 25 results on all state and national assessments ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 147 July 11, 2000 1 taken by Volusia County students; they call for 2 annual academic improvements for all students, 3 including those of disabilities; they call for 4 more rigorous scholastic school offerings, and 5 increased enrollments in college preparatory 6 programs. 7 To assist the District in meeting these 8 goals, perceived regulatory barriers have been 9 specifically identified, and the District will 10 receive exemption from these laws and rules. 11 Additionally, the District agrees to exempt 12 its schools from certain local procedures and 13 policies -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Here, here. 15 MS. COXE: -- that may stand in the way of 16 progress. And the District will annually 17 report its results to you. 18 Y'all, it's an exciting day for us at the 19 Department and for all of our offices that have 20 worked collaboratively to make this happen, and 21 especially for Volusia County Public Schools. 22 And we would like now to ask their team to 23 come forward, including their Superintendent, 24 Bill Hall. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Bill. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 148 July 11, 2000 1 MR. HALL: Thank you, Governor Bush, 2 members of the State Board of Education and 3 Cabinet members. 4 Two weeks ago when we were here, we 5 presented a proposal to you that had some 6 questions concerning the 29 ambitious goals. 7 Governor, we went back and talked about 8 those 29 goals, and decided that perhaps we 9 needed 35. 10 But we're going to stick with 29. 11 Let me thank you for allowing us to be 12 here. And let me introduce, first of all, the 13 team that appeared with me two weeks ago, and 14 that's still here. 15 First of all, Tim Huth, our 16 Deputy Superintendent. And next to him is 17 Dr. Chris Colwell, our Assistant Superintendent 18 for Curriculum and Instruction. And this is 19 the best Deputy Superintendent and the best 20 Assistant Superintendent for Curriculum 21 Instruction in America. 22 We also have Rich Kizma, our staff 23 attorney; and Dr. Mary Bennett, who is our 24 Director of Governmental Relations -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're not the best in the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 149 July 11, 2000 1 country? 2 MR. HALL: Yeah, the best. 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I -- I know 4 that -- I know that they're -- they're probably 5 soon going to be the best of every charter 6 district in the country. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's for sure. 8 MR. HALL: By far. 9 This is, indeed, for Volusia County and for 10 the State of Florida, one historic moment in 11 time. 12 A year ago when we started this process of 13 looking at becoming a charter district in the 14 state of Florida, we searched the Internet, we 15 sent out a number of letters, we made a number 16 of phone calls trying to find a district in the 17 United States that was a charter district. 18 We found none. We found a number of 19 charter school consultants, but no charter 20 district consultants. 21 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.) 22 MR. HALL: So we believe, along with 23 Commissioner Gallagher, that we are the first 24 charter district in the United States. At 25 least we're the largest. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 150 July 11, 2000 1 Now, of course, when Hillsborough County 2 receives the same status, they will be the 3 largest at that point. 4 We appreciate what this Cabinet has done, 5 what you've done, Governor, to allow us to try 6 something that's innovative and creative for 7 our students. 8 And I'm not standing here because I'm 9 building a resume. As I told you two weeks 10 ago, my resume is built. I will retire as the 11 Superintendent of Volusia County at some point 12 down the road. 13 We're doing this because we think it is 14 best -- 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: We all will. 16 MR. HALL: We're doing it because we think 17 it's best for students. And our goals are 18 ambitious -- 19 (Secretary Harris entered the room.) 20 MR. HALL: -- they are high expectations, 21 and we will reach them. 22 At the last State Board of Education 23 meeting, Commissioner Gallagher held a press 24 conference prior to the start of the Cabinet 25 meeting, and he released the FCAT scores. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 151 July 11, 2000 1 And during the meeting, we were counting 2 and analyzing the Volusia County results. We 3 have already met the 2001 goals that we set for 4 ourself. We just fell one school short of 5 meeting the June 2002 -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: We haven't raised the 7 standards yet, Mr. Superintendent. 8 MR. HALL: That's okay. We're going to -- 9 we're going to raise them. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good. 11 MR. HALL: We had standards before anybody 12 else set standards, and we're going to continue 13 to do that. 14 But we are proud of our district, we're 15 proud of our teachers, and our local school 16 leaders, and our parents, and our community 17 members. 18 We want to thank the School Board of 19 Volusia County, because they gave us the 20 freedom to search, to analyze, and to go 21 forward with this venture. 22 We want to thank, of course, our 23 Volusia County community. 24 And as I said two weeks ago, it is our 25 belief that this charter district legislation ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 152 July 11, 2000 1 will allow us to accelerate student learning 2 and achievement, accelerate it beyond our 3 highest expectations. 4 And that's what we're about when we teach 5 children. 6 And with that, I want to say a special 7 thanks to your Cabinet Aides and to 8 Tom Gallagher's DOE staffers. We have worked 9 long and hard. 10 There were some 11th hour discussions 11 yesterday on a couple of matters that came up. 12 We worked through them, and we believe that we 13 have an agreement that everyone can work with. 14 And you will see tremendous results coming out 15 of Volusia County. 16 We're open to any questions. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions? 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd just like to 19 say that they have not come looking to measure 20 by any other measurements than our State 21 standards; and our FCAT exams; and our State 22 accountability process, which I think is good. 23 And we had others that wanted to redo the 24 accountability process. 25 And it's been great working with -- with ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 153 July 11, 2000 1 your District. And I think that -- that you're 2 going to do things. 3 And so I'm very supportive of it. I'm glad 4 that we're here today. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: I commend you. 6 I'm really excited about this. We don't 7 get a chance to close our eyes and try to 8 visualize -- or dream about doing things 9 differently very often. 10 And in the constraining world of government 11 and politics, you all took -- took up the 12 challenge and did it the right way by getting 13 parents involved and teachers involved and -- 14 and your bureaucracy involved. And your 15 leadership has made a huge difference. 16 And I'm -- I'm excited that you've accepted 17 the opportunity to waive some rules, and you're 18 doing the same with the rules that you create 19 on your schools. 20 And I hope that you keep doing it. I hope 21 that we liberate the incredibly fine teachers 22 and principals that exist, and move to a 23 performance oriented child center system. 24 And the world's going to be watching what's 25 going on in Volusia County. And I know we are ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 154 July 11, 2000 1 excited to help you in any way. 2 I just -- I'm really excited about this, 3 and proud of what you've done. 4 MR. HALL: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to move 6 the contract between the State Board of 7 Education and Volusia County School Board in 8 regards to them being a charter school 9 district. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 13 Any other discussion? 14 Without objection, it's approved. 15 Thank you very much. 16 MR. HALL: Thank you. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Congratulations. 18 (Applause.) 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And, Governor, 20 Hillsborough's coming right behind them. They 21 weren't quite ready, but we'd like to hold that 22 off until the 26th meeting. 23 And I'd like to move to -- 24 MR. PIERSON: Hillsborough is 25 September 12th, sir. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 155 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, we're -- 2 I'm sorry. September 12th. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: September 12th? 4 MR. PIERSON: Yes, sir. On Item 3 -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 3? 6 MR. PIERSON: -- on Hillsborough, we'd like 7 to defer until September 12th. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second. 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer and a 12 second. 13 Without objection, it's approved. 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And then Item 4, 15 we'd defer that till July 25th, which is 16 Sarasota's, at their request. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion. 18 Is there a second? 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 22 Without -- to defer -- without objection, 23 it's approved. 24 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is the Chance Charter 25 School appeal versus -- versus the School Board ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 156 July 11, 2000 1 of Alachua County. 2 The State Board of Education considers 3 appeals of denials of charter school 4 applications pursuant to 96-186, Laws of 5 Florida. 6 As prescribed by law, Florida School Boards 7 are given authority to grant approval to 8 applicants who wish to operate charter schools 9 within a district. 10 A further provision of the law allows an 11 applicant who has been denied a charter, the 12 right to appeal the School Board's decision to 13 the State Board of Education. 14 Based on the written record and oral 15 argument presented at this meeting, the 16 State Board must vote to recommend acceptance 17 or rejection of the appeal to the School Board. 18 The vote requires a simple majority of the 19 members, and by law is not subject to the 20 provisions of the Administrative Procedures 21 Act. 22 The rule governing the appeal process was 23 unanim-- unanimously adopted by the Cabinet, 24 sitting as the State Board of Education -- 25 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.) ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 157 July 11, 2000 1 MR. PIERSON: -- on December 10th, 1996. 2 (Governor Bush exited the room.) 3 MR. PIERSON: It clearly states how this 4 hearing must proceed, and it specifies the 5 following limitations, which must be respected 6 by the applicant, the District School Board, 7 and their representatives. 8 The Notice of Appeal must be based on 9 errors the applicant charges the School Board 10 made in its decision to deny the charter. 11 The written arguments submitted by the 12 applicant to the State Board is limited to 13 discussion of those errors. 14 The record of this proceeding is limited to 15 the written arguments, the charter school 16 application itself, and transcripts of meetings 17 before the District School Board. 18 At this hearing, representatives of each 19 party may give oral argument. Oral argument is 20 limited to a summary of the written arguments 21 previously submitted to the State Board. Each 22 side has been requested to limit its summary to 23 10 minutes. 24 After the summaries are presented, a vote 25 will be taken, and a written recommendation of ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 158 July 11, 2000 1 the vote will be returned to the District 2 School Board. 3 Representing Chance Charter School is 4 Jackie Garrett. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me just 6 mention to the other Board members, while I 7 have it here. 8 I -- I don't want to have 9 Hillsborough County mad at me because -- saying 10 they weren't ready. 11 They had a previously scheduled 12 School Board activity that conflicted with 13 today's meeting. And for that reason, they 14 asked to reschedule on September 12th. 15 So just want to clarify that. 16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thank you. 17 Okay. You ready? 18 MS. GARRETT: As ready as I'm going -- 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. 20 MS. GARRETT: -- to get. 21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Commissioner Gallagher. 22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. He -- 23 he chairs it. 24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Oh, I'm sorry. 25 I'm sorry. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 159 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's okay. 2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- he chairs 3 it -- 4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: You lost your 5 chance in -- 6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just trying to -- 7 my only chance, you know. 8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Lock the 9 door, General. 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right. 11 (Governor Bush entered the room.) 12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Too late. 13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Too late? 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's over. 15 You're recognized. 16 MS. GARRETT: Yeah. I want -- I want 17 Governor Bush here. 18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We've got a 19 struggle for power here, Governor. 20 SECRETARY HARRIS: I turned it over to you, 21 but I'll turn it back over to the Governor now. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. 23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Ask if he wants to 24 turn it over. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 160 July 11, 2000 1 MS. GARRETT: My name's Jackie Garrett -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been a long morning. 3 MS. GARRETT: Yeah. Really. 4 Not as long -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three cups of coffee. 6 MS. GARRETT: -- as last time though. We 7 were behind the fiber optic people last time. 8 My name's Jackie Garrett. I'm the 9 Executive Director and a founding Board member 10 of Chance Charter School. I'm also the parent 11 of three children who attend Chance Charter 12 School. 13 I have written and destroyed about six 14 presentations to this Commission over the last 15 several weeks. 16 As simplistic as it sounds, we're here 17 basically because we have not received 18 equitable funding from our District. We have 19 received no IDEA funds for the entire 20 three years of our charter. 21 We have also not received services 22 delivered in the same manner that they were 23 delivered to other public schools within 24 Alachua County. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you stop a second? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 161 July 11, 2000 1 MS. GARRETT: Sure. 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: How could you not have 3 received IDEA funds? 4 MS. GARRETT: They didn't give them to us. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Don't they run legally with 6 the child? 7 MS. GARRETT: Should. Yes. 8 We were not even allowed to have a copy of 9 the IDEA grant until we made a public records 10 request, and had to pay $8 to get the copy of 11 the grant to see if we were even eligible for 12 any of the -- the funding or services that were 13 applied for by the Alachua County School 14 District. 15 Now, we have operated in the red for 16 three years. If you look at the amount of 17 money that we've operated in the red for the 18 three years that we've been in operation, that 19 it -- it pretty much equals the amount of money 20 that we surmise we should have received from 21 our IDEA funds. 22 We have provided all of our own evaluation 23 services, speech and language services, 24 occupational therapy, physical therapy, and 25 nursing services out of our general revenue ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 162 July 11, 2000 1 fund for three years. 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is only -- 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So -- so -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So when -- when 6 you do a -- an assessment, you're doi-- you're 7 doing it in-house, you're not having anybody 8 outside do it? 9 MR. GARRETT: We contract privately, and 10 have a psychologist come in and do it for us, 11 and pay -- 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I just want to -- 13 MS. GARRETT: -- them privately. 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- make sure I 15 understood what you were -- 16 MS. GARRETT: Now, our District -- 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- saying. 18 MS. GARRETT: -- has -- has stated that 19 they have provided IDEA services to us in the 20 form of administrative services. 21 In reviewing the charter law, our position 22 is that those adminis-- administrative services 23 should have been covered under the 5 percent 24 ESE administrative fee that's deducted from all 25 of the charter schools prior to us getting our ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 163 July 11, 2000 1 monthly disbursal. 2 All we have received from our District is a 3 staffing liaison that comes out and judges 4 whether a child meets specific staffing 5 criteria for program placement or not. 6 We have had some data entry from ESE. 7 That -- but that has been very problematic 8 as -- as well. We've received no site-based 9 services, as far as students are concerned. 10 And -- I mean, the only help that we've 11 received at all, as far as ESE is concerned, is 12 just the -- the staffing liaison. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: And this has been going on 14 for three years without resolution? 15 MS. GARRETT: For three years, yes, sir. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Seems odd. 17 MS. GARRETT: Yes, it does. 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, sure we'll 19 hear -- we're going to hear another side of 20 this issue. So -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, I imagine so. 22 What -- how many students are at the 23 school? 24 MS. GARRETT: We finished the year with 72. 25 We had -- we're -- we're capable of handling, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 164 July 11, 2000 1 numbers-wise, according to our charter, up to 2 100. We moved last year though, and -- and our 3 building did not hold -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How -- how -- is there any 5 differentiation between the State ESE money and 6 the IDEA money? 7 Is that separate and distinct funding 8 sources? So when you say "IDEA," are you 9 referring to a direct funding from the Federal 10 government that is not related to our funding 11 formula? 12 MS. GARRETT: Not related to the WFTE 13 dollars, correct. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: And your -- your -- I have 15 a letter here from the Department of Education 16 to the superintendent regarding the ESE FT-- 17 ESE FTE money -- 18 Boy, I'm sounding like the thing I'm trying 19 to avoid. 20 -- which says that there was a 21 differential, but a very small one for $1400. 22 MS. GARRETT: That was, I believe, matrix. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right. 24 MS. GARRETT: We had some -- 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you don't have a -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 165 July 11, 2000 1 I mean, your -- your concern does not relate to 2 the basic funding formula the State and the 3 District provide. 4 MS. GARRETT: That is -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: It relates to Federal 6 money. 7 MS. GARRETT: That's part of the issue. 8 But the -- the majority of our problem has been 9 related to not receiving -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. 11 MS. GARRETT: -- IDEA funds. 12 We've also -- Danny Wheelock has agreed to 13 work with us if we -- if our appeal is 14 approved, and handle all of our business 15 consulting for next year, which I would be more 16 than happy to turn over to him. 17 He sent us a memo stating that there were 18 18 Federal and state grants that it looked like 19 our District was receiving funds for, that we 20 may or may not have been eligible for. But 21 it's been very difficult for us to get guidance 22 from our District as to what funds we -- we are 23 able to tap into. 24 That information has not been readily 25 forthcoming from District finance members. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 166 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm -- I was -- was not in 2 the room when you introduced who you are, and I 3 apologize. But can you -- 4 MS. GARRETT: I'm Jackie Garrett. I'm -- 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jackie, are you the -- 6 MS. GARRETT: I'm the director. I'm -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Director? 8 MS. GARRETT: -- I'm a parent, and also a 9 Board member. 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Founder. 11 MS. GARRETT: And janitor. 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And founder. 13 MS. GARRETT: And founder, right. 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, the -- the 15 Dan-- the Danny Wheelock she's talking about is 16 a consultant person that we sent in to work 17 with them on summer school FTEs back in '98. 18 MS. GARRETT: And he was able to -- our 19 first year, he was able to recoup a significant 20 number of dollars for us for ESE transportation 21 funds that were withheld our first year, just 22 from going through our budget and -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions? 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm not -- I'm not 25 sure that he's agreed to do -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 167 July 11, 2000 1 MS. GARRETT: Well, he's agreed to work -- 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- all their 3 financial -- 4 MS. GARRETT: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So -- 6 MS. GARRETT: He has agreed to work with 7 us. He's starting a private consulting 8 business, and he said that he -- he would be 9 willing to help us, if possible. If not -- 10 I mean, it would be another consulting firm. 11 We're turning the business aspect over to 12 someone that handles business. 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you're still 14 around, I'm sure that's -- 15 MS. GARRETT: If we're still -- 16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- what you're 17 going to be doing. 18 MS. GARRETT: -- around. 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's definitely 20 going to have to happen. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could I ask a question? 22 The -- what I recall is that this is a 23 pretty serious deficit that you're confronted 24 with. It's several hundred thousand dollars; 25 is that right? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 168 July 11, 2000 1 MS. GARRETT: The District's -- I think 2 their last figure was 110,000. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: A hundred and ten thousand? 4 MS. GARRETT: What we actually -- and 5 that's, like, from different fund bases. What 6 we actually owe -- I mean, if I were to sit 7 down and pay every bill that we owe right now, 8 it's less than $50,000. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: And that's over and above 10 any money that you received. So -- 11 MS. GARRETT: I haven't been able to get a 12 clear-cut idea from our District yet how much 13 money they do still owe us. I mean, they have 14 agreed that there's a -- a -- 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, put it this -- I'm 16 asking the -- the inverse, which is that you 17 have -- you -- your -- your Board -- 18 MS. GARRETT: Uh-hum. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I assume is liable for 20 obligations that amount to $110,000; is that 21 correct? 22 MS. GARRETT: I'm not sure yet. 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, today you 24 were asked what debt existed that is not 25 included in the ninety-nine thousand five ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 169 July 11, 2000 1 hundred and fifty-eight deficit. And you said 2 there's probably about 45,000 more not 3 reported. 4 MS. GARRETT: That is how much -- if I were 5 to sit and -- and pay bills right now. That 6 does not include funds owed back to, like, 7 SIT fund or capital outlay monies. To pay off 8 every person that I owe right now would be less 9 than $50,000. 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well -- well, but 11 you have a $99,000 deficit. 12 MS. GARRETT: That -- we borrowed money 13 from our capital outlay -- 14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right. 15 MS. GARRETT: -- expenditure to pay bills 16 with. And that's what part of that deficit -- 17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We used SIT money 18 for expenses, which is -- 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: A bad thing. 20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's a bad 21 thing. It's an illegal thing. 22 So -- I'm still -- you reported a deficit 23 of 99,000. Okay? 24 And you -- that is before you pay the SIT 25 money back, or after you pay it back? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 170 July 11, 2000 1 MS. GARRETT: I believe before. 2 Now, we've also -- we just received a 3 capital outlay expenditure -- or check in April 4 that we need to go back and rebalance some of 5 the account, because we can adjust funds out of 6 that account for maintenance services that we 7 couldn't take out of SIT fund accounts, and for 8 some of our transportation monies we can 9 readjust out of those fund balances. 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. I guess we 11 need to hear from the other side here. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, ma'am. 13 MS. GARRETT: Okay. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. 16 MR. WITTMER: Good morning. 17 My name is Tom Wittmer. I'm here to 18 represent the School Board of Alachua County in 19 this proceeding. 20 I have with me our Director of Charter 21 Schools and School Improvements, Sue Griffith; 22 and also our Director of Finance, 23 Richard Trainor, if you have any specific 24 questions for them. 25 But if I could just take a minute to review ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 171 July 11, 2000 1 the -- the way that the State of Florida funds 2 the -- the schools, there is a formula, it's 3 complicated, there's lots of different factors. 4 The Legislature establishes some of those 5 factors every year. 6 Basically when a student is in a special 7 program such as ESE, and within that, a certain 8 type of program; or receiving a certain level 9 of service, as defined by the -- what we call 10 the matrix in this discussion, it results in a 11 weighted factor that is then applied to the 12 base student allocation, which is an annual 13 amount set by the Legislature. 14 And then with some other adjustments, that 15 becomes the base student funding. That's the 16 primary way that the State of Florida funds 17 public schools. 18 And every charter school, including all the 19 charter schools in our district, receives 20 their -- their direct proportional part of 21 that -- of that weighted FTE funding from -- 22 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.) 23 MR. WITTMER: -- the State. 24 The Chance Charter School in -- as of 25 April 30th of this year, Chance had received ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 172 July 11, 2000 1 three -- over three hundred and seventy 2 thousand dollars in -- in that type of funding, 3 FEFP, for education finance funds. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, are you -- 5 are you saying that -- that that's the total 6 amount that they received that had a -- part of 7 the matrix, or are you saying that's above the 8 base level for -- 9 MR. WITTMER: It's -- 10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- driven by the 11 matrix? 12 MR. WITTMER: -- it's the -- it's the -- 13 it's the base student funding, including all 14 the matrix weights, yes, sir. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excluding Federal money? 16 MR. WITTMER: It did not include Federal 17 money, it did not include some other 18 categoricals, which are in there. 19 If you look in the Appendix C to our appeal 20 document, it has a lot of different schedules 21 in there, and a lot of different kinds of -- 22 their accountant provided that to us. That was 23 as of April 30th. 24 We haven't received anything yet for May or 25 for June to finish out the year. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 173 July 11, 2000 1 There was some question about the matrix 2 values, and we -- we worked with the school 3 through that. We had meetings; we made 4 adjustments; we've sent the documents off to 5 the DOE, and got some input from them. 6 And it's my understanding now that we're 7 down to about $8,000 of differences, and we can 8 work that out. Those -- it's really, as 9 Ms. Garrett said, a fairly minor amount at this 10 point. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does this boil down to the 12 right of this -- these students to access 13 Federal money? 14 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir. And I -- I want 15 to -- 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that where the deficit 17 comes from? 18 MR. WITTMER: -- I want to speak about the 19 grant fund in just -- right after this. 20 I -- the -- there -- as far as State 21 funding goes, we believe the school received 22 everything that they were entitled to, with 23 those few adjustments possibly for a few 24 students still that we got back from DOE. 25 Now, the -- the IDEA grant is -- is a -- a ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 174 July 11, 2000 1 specific grant that comes to the states, and 2 flows through to the districts, which are 3 called local education agencies. This is a 4 Federal law. It's -- it's intended to provide 5 for the needs of the -- of the programs over 6 and above whatever this particular State funds. 7 Obviously it doesn't fund for everything. 8 But it comes in, and -- and it does depend on 9 the amount -- the number of students in the 10 district. That's how this -- this 11 Department of Education calculates that as it 12 distributes it out to the districts. 13 But there is no requirement that the -- 14 that the grant funds be then distributed by the 15 local education agency to the schools on a per 16 student basis. 17 And I would refer to the transcript at -- 18 at pages 67 and 68 where they talk about the 19 recent audit. We had our ESE department 20 audited recently. 21 Also, there was a letter from the 22 Department of Education interpreting the 23 regulations that way. The Federal regulations 24 basically say that we're supposed to distribute 25 those IDEA funds in the same manner as we ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 175 July 11, 2000 1 distribute them to all the other schools in the 2 district. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And you -- stop you. 4 Just -- I think this is the point of -- of the 5 problem. 6 Are you saying that these students -- the 7 seventy plus students that are going to this 8 charter school, aren't part of the public 9 school system, so, therefore, should not 10 receive the IDEA money? 11 MR. WITTMER: No. No, sir, we're not at 12 all. 13 We recognize that the charter school is a 14 public school. 15 What -- 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why would you -- 17 MR. WITTMER: I think the -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- why would you receive 19 this money, and not proportionately give it out 20 based on the need that is the intent, I think, 21 of the law, which is that this is a civil 22 right. 23 If children with exceptionalities have 24 rights to services, they -- they build their 25 own individual achievement plans, and there's ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 176 July 11, 2000 1 Federal money, while meager, compared to the 2 demands that they place on us, they still give 3 us Federal money. 4 Why wouldn't that money flow with the child 5 based on their need? 6 MR. WITTMER: The money does not flow to 7 any school in our district based merely on the 8 number of students. It's allocated based on 9 the particular needs of the school or the 10 program. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Then what -- 12 MR. WITTMER: In this case, the unique 13 needs of this school were for intensive, direct 14 ESE support services to the staff to help in 15 the writing, the staffing of students that 16 direct the writing of the ind-- individual 17 education plans, and the development of the 18 matrices. 19 The matrix came in the second year the 20 school was -- was operating. So everybody was 21 on a learning curve. 22 At the beginning of this last school year, 23 there were no personnel at the school who 24 were -- who were trained and qualified to do 25 either the IEP or the matrix. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 177 July 11, 2000 1 And that's in the transcript at page 74. 2 What -- by -- I want to give you a 3 comparison. In our district, we have 4 Gainesville High School, which is a large 5 school with over 1,000 students. 6 We provide one person from the district a 7 day a month to do staffing specialist type of 8 activities at that school. 9 At Chance, by comparison, with 72 students, 10 the same person was at Chance one or even 11 two days per week throughout the school year. 12 And you can see -- that's in the transcript 13 at page 69. 14 The District believes that this was the 15 essential use of IDEA funds for this school. 16 And it -- it assured that the school was in 17 compliance with the law, that the students were 18 getting staffed and served appropriately, and 19 that they -- that the school was getting the 20 proper levels of funding. 21 It -- it took an intense and continuing 22 kind of attention from the District. And that 23 is how the District has allocated the IDEA 24 funds for this school. 25 And you can find the chart in the -- in ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 178 July 11, 2000 1 the -- 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you give me an estimate 3 of what the Federal dollars per student would 4 be so that we can -- 5 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- get a sense of what 7 the -- that -- that service that you're 8 suggesting was -- fulfilled the obligation of 9 the District with the school? 10 MR. WITTMER: The Appendix D, as in -- 11 and -- in dog, to the appeal document shows 12 that the federally allocated dollars per 13 student ranged from the first year to $393, to 14 the last year it was 547. 15 And the dollars figures there is showing 16 the -- a number of students. And -- that was 17 based on the count in December. They take a 18 special count in December for this. It isn't 19 the State count. 20 SECRETARY HARRIS: D. 21 MR. WITTMER: I'd just like to review real 22 quick for the Cabinet members, if I could, what 23 efforts this District has made to try and help 24 this school and be successful. 25 In 1999, when it became apparent that there ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 179 July 11, 2000 1 was a continuing problem with the deficit after 2 the Auditor General had reviewed the records 3 the first year, the District paid for an 4 independent audit in May of 1999 by the 5 Davis, Monk firm. 6 We also paid for a review by Nancy Boyd, an 7 independent outside expert, dealing with the 8 matrices and the values for students in the 9 summer of 1999. 10 The superintendent gave notice to the 11 school in July that the continuing deficits 12 were unacceptable, and demanded that they be 13 corrected. 14 And the District increased the ESE support 15 services to the school, and maintained them 16 throughout the term of this contract for 17 three years. 18 There was a corrective action plan that 19 came into being in August of 1999, and there's 20 a lot of District support in there and -- in 21 the areas of personnel and student services and 22 rec-- student records, as well as the ESE. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I -- can I ask a 24 question? I'm sorry. 25 The -- the number -- on the Exhibit D, you ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 180 July 11, 2000 1 have the number of students is 38 in the 2 December '99 count? 3 MR. WITTMER: That was the count, yes, sir. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How does that compare with 5 the 74, 75, that the applicant -- or the -- the 6 Director of the school said is the student 7 population? 8 MR. WITTMER: I don't -- I can't answer 9 that directly. I think it may have to do with 10 who is qualified for ESE -- 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Some of the students -- 12 MR. WITTMER: -- services at -- 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- aren't -- 14 MR. WITTMER: -- that time. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- aren't ESE? 16 MS. GARRETT: We would include the -- so 17 not all of our students are ESE. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh. Okay. 19 MR. WITTMER: There's just been a -- a lot 20 of -- of extensive communications and technical 21 assistance over the years with this school. 22 I don't want the Cabinet members to feel 23 that there's ever -- this is an orphan school 24 or a school we've allowed to languish. 25 This is a school we have worked with, ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 181 July 11, 2000 1 and -- and tried very hard to make successful. 2 As I said, the -- the financial reports are 3 as of April 30th. We don't know about May or 4 June yet. We also don't know about other 5 obligations the school may have. 6 I believe Ms. Garrett mentioned something 7 under 50,000. That would -- that would -- 8 would not be included in any figures that -- 9 that you have. 10 Our Board and superintendent felt very 11 strongly about this, and they -- they 12 emphasized at the hearing and -- and 13 reluctantly took this action, but they felt it 14 was their duty as elected officials. 15 And I just wanted to let you know that -- 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth. 17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Sir, if I 18 could just ask one question here. 19 Other than the issue of finances, is there 20 an issue of quality of education in this 21 particular school? 22 MR. WITTMER: That's not part of this 23 appeal, no, sir. 24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. 25 MR. WITTMER: Nope, that's not. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 182 July 11, 2000 1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Not at all. 2 Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Are you finished? 4 MR. WITTMER: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. 6 The -- we have worked very closely with 7 this charter school. I have a technical 8 assistance log that's one, two, three, 9 four pages. The District has worked very 10 closely with this school, and the parents have 11 worked very closely with this school. 12 And -- and on the IDEA funds, the -- the 13 school has filed a formal complaint with us. 14 It's about two weeks old. And it's on fast 15 track. 16 We will analyze and see whether or not 17 their complaint is correct. And we hope to get 18 something back by the beginning of August on 19 that. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: What happens if it is found 21 to be correct? 22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Then they -- then 23 we do a -- I do an order, and the -- and the 24 District has to fund the money. 25 GOVERNOR BUSH: But if -- is that -- is it ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 183 July 11, 2000 1 premature to make a decision today on that 2 before you -- 3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. We can't do 4 that. That's another -- that's an issue that's 5 being investigated. 6 And we just -- we just don't -- I mean, 7 their allegation is that they didn't get any 8 money. And the District says we've given them 9 the services in kind, at whatever, and -- and 10 we need to -- 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you see what -- 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- investigate 13 that. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if we -- if we denied it 15 today, and you came back and -- and found 16 that -- that the school had not gotten the 17 proper amount of support -- 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And all of a 19 sudden that was in the black? I don't think 20 that'll happen. But -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, not -- 22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's possible. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in the black. But they 24 didn't the -- they didn't get, by what the 25 Federal law requires, the assistance that -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 184 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Uh-hum. 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that they should have 3 gotten. 4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I'll -- I'll 5 make a recommendation to y'all if you'd like to 6 hear it. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep. 8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is -- this is not an 10 easy one. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It isn't easy. 12 And we've worked very closely with them, and 13 I'd -- I'd like to make this. 14 And that is that -- that I've heard the 15 presentations, and I've received six letters 16 from parents. And I sympathize with their 17 wanting to keep the school open. 18 I could support that only if the following 19 actions became a part of the school's contract 20 for next year: 21 Number one, the charter school's governing 22 board would immediately begin a concerted 23 effort at fund raising to abolish the current 24 debt, and build a base for future fiscal 25 viability. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 185 July 11, 2000 1 Two, the charter school's governing board 2 would engage the services of a financial 3 management organization or consultant with 4 authority over the revenues, expenditures, 5 bookkeeping, and reporting. 6 Three, the Director and financial manager 7 would provide twice monthly updates to the 8 charter school's governing board and 9 Alachua County's district staff on the progress 10 being made as measured by: Student performance 11 data, full financial disclosure showing 12 additional funds raised, funding received and 13 expenses incurred and paid appropriately, full 14 and complete records for student IEPs and 15 fiscal issues. 16 Number four, the Director and the school 17 staff will make visits to at least three other 18 charter schools. 19 Five, the school will abide by, and 20 continue the corrective action plan in force 21 because of the Commissioner's order. We have 22 one. 23 Six, based on the results of the current 24 DOE investigations of the complaints before it, 25 if any monies are due to the school, the ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 186 July 11, 2000 1 District would forward them within 15 working 2 days of receipt of the investigation findings. 3 That's it. 4 And I would make a motion that we would 5 allow this recommend-- we can hear -- if she'd 6 like to answer that, I'd be glad to hear it. 7 Jackie? 8 MS. GARRETT: As the Executive Director, I 9 would agree fully with all of your 10 recommendations. 11 We had also discussed the possibility of 12 one of our administra-- administrative 13 positions has been done away with to cover, if 14 Danny does come on board, the costs that would 15 be incurred by -- by using those consulting 16 services. 17 I would also be willing to work myself for 18 free to get our -- our school back in the black 19 again. 20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, it's got to 21 be run in the black, or it's going to get 22 closed. 23 MS. GARRETT: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And we know 25 that -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 187 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you know -- 2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you've worked 3 very hard with the students, you care a lot 4 about them, they mean a lot to you, you have 5 your own children there. So I know how 6 important it is to you. 7 At the same time, we have responsibility, 8 as does the school district, to see to it that 9 it operates, you know, as a -- as an ongoing 10 institution -- 11 MS. GARRETT: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- which means it 13 can only operate on the money that's allocated 14 for it. 15 So with your emphasis on students, you have 16 sort of let the other side go. We're going to 17 make you take care of the other side, if the 18 rest of the Board agrees with it. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, can you 20 elaborate on how this impacts the possible use 21 of capital outlay dollars from the State for 22 operating costs? 23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Those have to be 24 reversed as soon as possible. That -- that 25 obviously can't happen. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 188 July 11, 2000 1 And they do have some capital outlay that 2 they've now made for some portables and some 3 other things that I think can be -- 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Reimbursed? 5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I think that 6 they can reimburse the funds and get it done 7 correctly. Although that's what they need this 8 twice monthly report, and to have this 9 financial management organization or 10 consultant, to make sure that all does get 11 straightened out. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we -- 13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Commissioner -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is it okay to get the -- 15 the School -- 16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Sure. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Board? 18 Okay. Well -- 19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just had a question 20 for -- for the Commissioner before the 21 School Board comes up. 22 This is the first time I've heard about the 23 investigation I guess you briefed this morning. 24 What is the substance of the investigation, 25 just in terms of the IDEA funds? ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 189 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the 2 complaint just came in to us two weeks ago. 3 We -- we get complaints that deal with 4 exceptional students quite often. There's a 5 process they go through. And we then issue an 6 order to the school district on what -- what 7 the -- what our investigation has come to the 8 conclusion, and they're bound by that. 9 This falls into that type of process. And 10 we do have to spend some time investigating. 11 That's -- 12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Is there -- 13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's -- 14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- is there anything 15 more we should know, I mean, in terms of making 16 a decision today operating with the full 17 information, since we didn't know about it. Is 18 there anything else from that, or -- 19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, there -- 20 there's other -- we have had -- we've been 21 working with them for a long time. And there's 22 a long list of -- of complaints and allegations 23 that have been made, and orders that have been 24 issued during this past three years. 25 I think the best thing to say is that ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 190 July 11, 2000 1 I think that the -- that the -- the school and 2 the people in the school have worked very hard 3 to take care of their students. 4 I don't think any -- you have not heard a 5 complaint anywhere -- I think the one thing we 6 do worry about is -- is a school operating 7 without the students, and we've had some of 8 those here where the students weren't doing so 9 well. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That is not an -- 12 an allegation here. The allegation here is -- 13 is a fiscal management more than anything else. 14 And so we're hoping maybe that can get fixed. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Like to just get your 16 opinion on the -- Commissioner Gallagher's 17 res-- 18 MR. WITTMER: I haven't talked with anybody 19 back at our Board about it. We certainly do 20 understand the recommendation though, I think 21 all the terms of it. 22 And -- and there is a corrective action 23 plan, like you said, Commissioner, that will be 24 in effect at least for another year if -- if 25 there is a -- ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 191 July 11, 2000 1 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many charter schools do 2 you all have? 3 MR. WITTMER: Eight. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, it's an integral 5 part of your -- 6 MR. WITTMER: Oh, yes, sir. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- of your -- 8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. They're very 9 pro charter schools -- 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So this is not a 12 county that's trying to figure out how to close 13 them. They're -- they're working -- 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just -- I want to commend 15 you, because we've -- we've had these cases 16 where there's clear hostility by the school 17 districts and the charter school applicants 18 where, whether we approved it or not, it was 19 clear that there were going to be some rough 20 sailing, just because school districts can kill 21 little -- little schools that are 22 undercapitalized if they want to beat them down 23 with 1,000 bureaucratic cuts. 24 And I get the feeling that that's not the 25 case here, which I -- I commend. ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 192 July 11, 2000 1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And let me just 2 add this, that in my opinion -- and this is my 3 opinion -- that the school district looked long 4 and hard about wanting to shut this down and 5 send it to us. Because truly this school is 6 taking care of some students and parents that 7 haven't always been happy with Alachua County's 8 district, have been down there every meeting 9 complaining. 10 And when they had this option, they quit 11 coming down to the District and complained, and 12 have worked very closely with Janet to make 13 things work out. 14 So when they did this, they realized that 15 most of the parents are going to be back down 16 at that School Board complaining about what's 17 happened to their children. 18 So if we can get this school in a good 19 fiscal shape, they're going to take care of the 20 kids, and good things are going to happen, 21 which is what's supposed to happen with charter 22 schools. 23 So I'm glad to hear both sides are willing 24 to look at it, and we'll continue to work with 25 them, and hopefully we'll get it on financial ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 193 July 11, 2000 1 solid ground. 2 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion. 3 Is there a second? 4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? 6 Without -- without opposition, it passes. 7 We have more? 8 MR. PIERSON: One last item, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Congratulations, 10 Jackie. 11 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is a rule -- 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all very much for 13 coming. 14 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is an amendment to 15 Rule 6A-10.024, Articulation Between 16 Universities, Community Colleges, and 17 School Districts. 18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion. 19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 21 Without objection, it's approved. 22 (The State Board of Education Agenda was 23 concluded.) 24 * * * 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 194 July 11, 2000 1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at 2 12:17 p.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
195 July 11, 2000 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 4 5 STATE OF FLORIDA: 6 COUNTY OF LEON: 7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that 8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the 9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand 10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing 11 pages numbered 1 through 194 are a true and correct 12 record of the aforesaid proceedings. 13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, 14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, 15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, 16 or financially interested in the foregoing action. 17 DATED THIS 21ST day of JULY, 2000. 18 19 20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR 100 Salem Court 21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301 850/878-2221 22 23 24 25 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.