T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
October 26, 1999, commencing at approximately
9:14 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
*
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
3
October 26, 1999
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 40
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Sandra Sartin,
Policy Coordinator)
1 Approved 42
2 through 5 Approved 42
6 and 7 Approved 43
8 Approved 43
9 Approved 43
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 45
2 Approved 45
3 For Information Only 46
4 Deferred 110
5 Approved 110
6 Deferred 111
7 Approved 111
8 Approved 112
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
4
October 26, 1999
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 113
Substitute 2 Approved 116
3 Approved 117
Second
Substitute 4 Approved 184
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 185
*
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 5
October 26, 1999
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:36 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Going to announce
5 the next Cabinet meeting?
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: The next Cabinet meeting is
7 November 9th, Commissioner Gallagher.
8 Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
11 You ready, Ben?
12 MR. WATKINS: Yes, sir.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion on the minutes.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move them.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Item 2.
19 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a presentation of a
20 Debt Affordability Study we conducted.
21 As you all know, we have been in the
22 process of studying the State's debt. And what
23 we call this is a Debt Affordability Study.
24 And -- and I believe each of you has a
25 presentation in your book, so you can follow
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 6
October 26, 1999
1 there, or on the screen.
2 You might ask yourself, what is debt
3 affordability? Well, debt affordability is
4 more of a process. It's an analytical approach
5 to evaluating the State's financial position.
6 And -- and what it results in is a financial
7 management tool to assist policymakers in
8 evaluating the long-term impacts of financing
9 decisions based on standard industry benchmarks
10 in the form of debt ratios.
11 And at the end of the process, what we have
12 developed for providing information to
13 policymakers is a financial model to calculate
14 what the State's theoretical bonding capacity
15 is, based on two different variables.
16 One is reasonable borrowing levels measured
17 by debt ratios, and the second is the amount of
18 State revenues available to make our debt
19 service payments.
20 Well, what I would like to do is walk you
21 through the methodology that we used in
22 conducting the debt affordability analysis so
23 you can understand how we arrived at the
24 conclusion, and how we developed the model
25 to -- to provide information to policymakers.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 7
October 26, 1999
1 The first thing we did was catalog all
2 State debt. And it includes our major
3 financing programs, PECO, P2000.
4 It also includes other financing programs
5 that are not necessarily -- that are not
6 administered through the Division of
7 Bond Finance that are typically one-shot deals
8 created through the legislative process where
9 the -- where the bonds are sold away from the
10 Division of Bond Finance.
11 The third thing that we did was calculate
12 our debt ratios. And then we compared the debt
13 ratios to both national medians, as well as
14 medians of our ten-state peer group.
15 And based on that comparison, we
16 established guidelines for calculating what our
17 theoretical debt capacity is, we calculated the
18 debt capacity within the guideline range
19 established, and we performed a sensitivity
20 analysis on the ratio in order to determine the
21 relative volatility of the ratio based on
22 different economic climates.
23 The State has a total of 16.8 billion
24 dollars of debt outstanding. And of the total
25 outstanding, approximately 8.8 billion, or
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 8
October 26, 1999
1 53 percent of all State debt relates to
2 education, funding of education facilities,
3 with PECO being the mainstay of the financing
4 program for educational facilities.
5 Approximately 4.6 billion, or 27 percent of
6 State debt, relates to transportation
7 facilities -- transportation. And that's
8 primarily toll roads.
9 And the third major component in terms of
10 programmatic area is 2.8 billion dollars of
11 debt, or 16.4 percent of State debt relating to
12 the acquisition of environmentally sensitive
13 land. And that's primarily the implementation
14 of the P2000 program.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ben --
16 MR. WATKINS: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Can I ask a
18 question as we go?
19 MR. WATKINS: Absolutely.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is this debt all
21 guaranteed by the State, or is some of it just
22 based on revenues from, say, tolls, or revenues
23 from some other set place that is, you know,
24 made specifically -- in other words, the debt's
25 based on that -- on the revenues coming in, as
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 9
October 26, 1999
1 opposed to the State assigning full faith and
2 credit?
3 MR. WATKINS: Right.
4 There are two different types of debt
5 outstanding that we have. And the -- and the
6 relative -- the -- the categorization from a
7 credit analyst standpoint is net tax supported
8 debt, which is considered State debt proper and
9 secured by tax revenues; and then
10 self-supporting debt.
11 And of the 16.8 billion dollars,
12 approximately 13.1 billion is net tax supported
13 debt. And -- with the remaining 2.--
14 3.7 billion being self-supporting debt. And
15 self-supporting debt is primarily toll roads,
16 with some dormitory facilities included in that
17 for the State University System, as well as
18 parking garages.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, when you
20 take, for example, the PECO dollars, that's --
21 that's a tax. But is only the utilities tax
22 that covers PECO, is it locked into receipts
23 from that tax, and not other taxes, or are we
24 signed up to cover it on any taxes that would
25 come in?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 10
October 26, 1999
1 MR. WATKINS: It's only -- Florida has a
2 very unique credit structure in the sense that
3 we have a dedicated revenue stream serving as
4 primary security for all of our debt. With the
5 State general obligation -- or the State's full
6 faith and credit standing as a -- as a back-up
7 to any shortfall in the revenue stream.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: This -- this is an
9 important point, I think, because when we're --
10 when Ben and I talked about this, we're being
11 compared with our peers, many of whom are
12 general --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- are -- are admitting
15 debt into the marketplace under a general
16 obligation basis.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, that's sort
18 of where I'm heading here.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: I knew you were. I just
20 wanted to get to it.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You wanted to get
22 me there quick.
23 Okay.
24 Okay. I've been undermined. Go right
25 ahead, Ben.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 11
October 26, 1999
1 MR. WATKINS: So, in effect, what we have
2 when we -- when we go through these debt
3 ratios, and it becomes especially important
4 when we try to compare ourselves to other
5 states, and the peer group, and to -- to be
6 mindful of the fact that we -- we in Florida
7 have a unique credit structure, in that there's
8 a self-regulatory mechanism built in place in
9 terms of constitutional requirements, and
10 statutory limitations that are tied to each
11 specific revenue stream that supports that
12 particular financing program.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: And that's the -- and
14 that's Tom's point I think he was making, and
15 it's a very good one, that does distinguish us
16 in the top ten. How many other states have
17 this conservative approach to debt?
18 MR. WATKINS: The -- typically -- there's
19 some other states that have revenue bond
20 programs where they just have the revenue
21 stream securing repayment of the debt without
22 the State's full faith and credit backup.
23 To my knowledge, Florida is really the only
24 one that uses that methodology in terms of a
25 finance structure as a matter of course. And
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 12
October 26, 1999
1 most states pay their -- pay their debt
2 directly out of general revenues.
3 And so you're subject to swings in economic
4 cycles, and the amount of revenues you then
5 have left over to provide other governmental
6 services.
7 So repeating myself, Florida is unique in
8 that respect, and so you need to be mindful of
9 that when comparing ourselves to other states.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And when you look
11 at -- at the other comparative states, I think
12 they're doing it strictly by population, as
13 opposed to other methods.
14 MR. WATKINS: And that's --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: In other words --
16 MR. WATKINS: -- correct.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and it --
18 because of the way they compare us -- because
19 of the way we're compared, we're compared at a
20 disadvantage with states that have an income
21 tax, where we don't have one, and with the
22 income tax are using that as the basis for
23 their bonds whereas we don't, one then, have
24 the income tax; and, two, we have other income
25 streams that are dedicated to the paying of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 13
October 26, 1999
1 those bonds.
2 And so there's major differences between us
3 and our --
4 MR. WATKINS: That's correct.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commissioner.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This is my prelude
7 to getting some additional bonding money --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know where it's --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- for education.
10 I --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- going. I just --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- just want you
13 to know where I'm heading. In case
14 anybody's --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know where you're going.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- wondering.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- in
18 income tax, Tom?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. We let you --
20 your party handle that.
21 MR. WATKINS: Looking at the 16.8 billion
22 dollars in debt, that only gives you a snapshot
23 at a point in time.
24 And from an analytical perspective, it's
25 very important to evaluate trends over a period
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 14
October 26, 1999
1 of time in order to get a better picture of
2 where the State of Florida has been, and where
3 we're going with respect to our debt profile.
4 At -- the total debt outstanding over the
5 last ten years has increased 10.9 billion
6 dollars, from approximately 5.9 billion in
7 1989, to approximately 16.8 billion in 1999.
8 That's a total increase of 285 percent. So
9 we've nearly tripled the amount of debt that we
10 have outstanding over the last ten years.
11 However, there are no real surprises in
12 terms of the investment that the
13 State of Florida has made in its
14 infrastructure. Four point six billion dollars
15 of the increase was attributable to PECO;
16 2.7 billion dollars was attributable to the
17 implementation of the P2000 program, which is a
18 ten-year program, 300 million a year, and
19 commenced in 1991. So we've got nine years
20 worth of PECO -- I mean, P2000 under our belt.
21 And thirdly, the expansion of toll
22 facilities accounted for approximately
23 2 billion dollars of the increase.
24 So of the -- there are -- there are no
25 surprises in terms of the tremendous investment
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 15
October 26, 1999
1 that the State has made with respect to the
2 dollars that were generated through the
3 borrowing. And the aggregation of these three
4 different programs accounts for 9.3 billion
5 dollars of the 10.9 billion dollar increase, or
6 85 percent of the increase that's attributable
7 to those --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just as an --
9 MR. WATKINS: -- three investments.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- editorial comment about
11 the State's role in -- in the first two
12 programs at least, is -- isn't it correct that
13 we spend -- we pay as a percentage of capital
14 outlay dollars going to schools, the State of
15 Florida, at least among the larger states,
16 pays -- has the highest percentage of any of
17 the states.
18 And, in fact, nominally last year, we had
19 the most investment in -- in schools, capital
20 outlay dollars going to schools of any state.
21 And I would assume that Preservation 2000,
22 that program is probably the most aggressive as
23 well, or near the top for any state as well.
24 MR. WATKINS: Well, to -- to give you a
25 sense for that, New Jersey recently passed an
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 16
October 26, 1999
1 initiative for a 500 million dollar program,
2 and that was -- that was a tremendous deal
3 nationally and got a lot of press.
4 So that gives you an idea of the order of
5 the magnitude and the commitment that the
6 State of Florida has made in acquiring and
7 setting aside environmentally sensitive lands,
8 vis-a-vis other states.
9 These are real dollar -- well, these are
10 nominal dollar growth terms. Even when you
11 deflate these dollars based on a CPI Index of
12 3.3 percent over the last ten years, it's still
13 more than double the amount of debt that we
14 have outstanding in the investment and
15 infrastructure.
16 The next thing that we evaluated is the
17 growth in the annual debt service requirements,
18 the amount necessary to make our debt service
19 payments on an annual basis.
20 And actually, that measure is more
21 important from a budgetary perspective than is
22 the -- the total amount of debt that we have
23 outstanding.
24 And it gives you an indication of our
25 long-term fixed costs associated with running
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 17
October 26, 1999
1 the state. You assume debt comes off the top,
2 like for most of us. Then the money left over
3 is -- is the amount that we have for
4 policymakers to provide all the other
5 governmental services that the State sovereign
6 provides.
7 So the higher the level of debt service,
8 the less money we have left over to provide
9 critically needed services.
10 And this -- it gives -- has an impact on
11 your prospective budgetary flexibility. So to
12 the extent that you build up your annual
13 requirement, it inhibits your ability to
14 redirect resources to other policy initiatives
15 in the future, because this obligation
16 continues for the next 20 to 30 years.
17 As you can see, the -- the -- the annual
18 debt service requirements have increased
19 approximately 717 million dollars over this
20 ten-year period, from 354 million dollars to
21 just over 1 billion dollars.
22 The increase in the annual debt service
23 payments mirrors the increase in the -- in the
24 amount of debt that we currently have
25 outstanding. And it represents a 202 percent
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 18
October 26, 1999
1 increase, as opposed to a 285 percent increase
2 for total debt outstanding.
3 And that's primarily attributable to the
4 historically low interest rates that we've
5 experienced over the last ten years, and the
6 significant amount of refundings, or
7 refinancings we've done on existing outstanding
8 debt over the last ten years.
9 We have executed 39 refundings,
10 approximately 5.9 billion dollars of
11 refinancing. So that's basically a third of
12 our portfolio has turned over and been
13 refinanced at lower rates, generating gross
14 debt service savings of approximately 780
15 million dollars, and present value savings of
16 450 million dollars.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ben, what -- what is the
18 typical debt service coverage ratio for
19 these -- the main bond programs we have?
20 MR. WATKINS: The minimum coverages vary,
21 depending on what the program is and the
22 stability of the revenue stream, or the
23 perceived stability of the revenue stream.
24 For example, the coverage on PECO is 1.11.
25 So it's a one eleven cover. But on P2000, with
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 19
October 26, 1999
1 the more volatile doc stamp taxes, which are
2 highly dependent on economic cycles, the
3 coverage is a one fifty or one --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: One fifty?
5 MR. WATKINS: -- point five zero.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Lots of room.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Man.
8 MR. WATKINS: So it depends on which
9 program we're talking about in terms of the --
10 either the statutory coverage requirements, or
11 coverage requirements embedded in -- in the
12 bond resolution.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You have to think,
14 when you have a turndown in our economy, those
15 real estate transactions just stop.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, you can look at the
17 PECO dollars and be -- be a little worried
18 about --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's utilities.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- deregulation.
21 I know.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah -- oh, yeah.
23 That -- that is a concern --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, you --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- with --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 20
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I was -- I'm not going
2 to tell the bond writers how to underwrite.
3 But historically --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is it --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- our doc stamp revenues
6 have been pretty steadily upward, and it
7 flattens out during tough times, not --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Is that -- is that
9 set by statute, or is that just done by our
10 method to -- for underwriting?
11 MR. WATKINS: Constitutionally -- some of
12 the programs are constitutionally -- if it's a
13 State GO Program, then those constraints are
14 embedded in the Constitution.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So is PECO
16 embedded in the Constitution, or is that --
17 MR. WATKINS: Correct.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- and what
19 about the P2000?
20 MR. WATKINS: P2000 is set by statute.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Statutory?
22 MR. WATKINS: Correct.
23 The next step in the process was to
24 calculate Florida's debt ratios, and compare
25 those debt ratios to both national medians and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 21
October 26, 1999
1 the medians of our ten-state peer group.
2 This -- the three standard measures used by
3 the municipal industry are debt service as a
4 percentage of revenues, debt to personal
5 income, and debt per capita.
6 And Florida exceeds both the national and
7 peer gro-- our peer group medians in both of --
8 in all three of those ratios. And the growth
9 rate in those ratios over the last ten years
10 has exceeded both the national medians, as well
11 as the ten-state peer group median.
12 So basically what that means is we have --
13 we are incurring debt faster over this ten-year
14 period in Florida than the national medians in
15 our ten-state peer group reflects.
16 But in order to get -- these -- these are
17 very macroeconomic measures in statistics. So
18 in order to get a better indication of how
19 Florida ranks relative to its peer group, the
20 next thing that we did was to compare our
21 ratios to our peer group, which is considered
22 the -- the ten most populous states.
23 And based on this comparison, you can see
24 Florida ranks second in debt service as a
25 percentage of revenues, and -- behind New York,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 22
October 26, 1999
1 and third in debt to personal income and debt
2 per capita behind New York and New Jersey.
3 To give you a better indication of the
4 relative ranking in relation to the 50 states,
5 for the last date that the ratio was
6 calculated, Florida ranked 16th in debt service
7 to revenues, which is what we consider to be
8 the most important measure from a financial
9 management perspective, to use as a benchmark.
10 However, despite Florida's apparent
11 relatively high debt burden, these debt burdens
12 and these ratios are considered moderate by the
13 rating agencies.
14 No -- no analysis of the State's debt
15 position would be complete without some sort of
16 explanation about what our -- what our bond
17 rating is.
18 The State of Florida has a very strong
19 general obligation bond rating. We're AA, Aa2,
20 AA+. And what that means is the highest credit
21 rating you can get is a AAA. So we're two
22 notches below a AAA rating by two of the rating
23 services, and one notch below a AAA bond rating
24 by Standard & Poor's Corporation at a AA+.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ben, I see on the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 23
October 26, 1999
1 group of ten states, Georgia's the only one
2 that has a AAA.
3 Are there other states that have AAA?
4 MR. WATKINS: There are nine other states
5 that have AAA credit ratings.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: The market though
7 underwrites our bonds close to a AAA; does it
8 not?
9 MR. WATKINS: That's correct.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just want to make sure
11 for these -- all the writers writing script,
12 write it down --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Interest rate.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- here, make sure the
15 story's --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- based on the
17 interest we pay.
18 MR. WATKINS: Florida's considered a
19 specialty state because of the tremendous
20 in-state retail demand for our debt. And
21 normally we trade five to ten bases points off
22 a AAA high grade scale.
23 So it is -- it is received in the
24 marketplace -- our bonds are received in the
25 marketplace at better than the rating agencies
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 24
October 26, 1999
1 are -- are rating us.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
3 MR. WATKINS: There's one important thing
4 to understand, is that there's not a direct
5 correlation between debt burden and credit
6 rating. There are a number of other factors
7 that the rating agencies evaluate in terms of
8 assigning a credit rating to a governmental
9 issuer. And those are financial condition,
10 economic factors, and administrative or
11 management factors.
12 So regardless of the answer that we
13 generate pursuant to this analysis, the mere
14 fact that the State of Florida is evaluating
15 its debt and -- and taking a more active role
16 in managing its debt will be received very
17 positively by the rating agencies.
18 The next step in the analysis was to
19 designate a benchmark debt ratio to use in
20 order to -- as a guideline for future debt
21 issuance. And to perform a sensitivity
22 analysis on the ratio in order to see how that
23 ratio -- to assess the relative volatility in
24 that ratio during different economic cycles.
25 So what we did was to lay out the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 25
October 26, 1999
1 historical growth and -- the ratio that we
2 designated was debt service as a percentage of
3 revenues available to pay debt service because
4 the State is largely in control of both of
5 those variables where the other two benchmarks
6 are more mac-- macroeconomic measures.
7 So the base case scenario uses the Revenue
8 Estimating Conference revenues to project what
9 we expect our revenue collections to be over
10 the next ten years. We developed a more
11 pessimistic scenario, which takes that revenue
12 growth rate and cuts it in half.
13 And then we developed a more optimistic
14 scenario, which is based on the ten-year
15 average growth rate in State revenues.
16 And you can see the red line is the
17 pessimistic scenario, the blue line is the
18 base case scenario, and the green line is the
19 optimistic scenario.
20 These projections also include 9 billion
21 dollars of additional bond issuance that we
22 expect over the next ten years under the
23 State's existing programs.
24 So you can see, we exceed 6 percent in the
25 near term because of the -- completing the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 26
October 26, 1999
1 Lottery Revenue Bond Program, which was
2 recently authorized, and the pace of our debt
3 issuance in the near term outstrips our revenue
4 growth.
5 But then the revenue growth in the out
6 years exceeds the -- the expected level of
7 issuance of debt and the ratios decline
8 somewhat.
9 The last step in the process is to
10 calculate what our theoretical bond capacity
11 is, based on this targeted debt ratio.
12 We've set -- have suggested guidelines of
13 6 percent as a -- as a target debt ratio, and
14 8 percent as a -- as a cap.
15 And then for each of the scenarios, we laid
16 in an additional 9 billion dollars of debt
17 issuance, and calculate what the theoretical
18 bonding capacity is based on each of these
19 scenarios at both the 6 and the 8 percent
20 level.
21 And you can see based on the 6 percent
22 target level, in addition to the 9 billion
23 dollars of expected issuance, there's
24 3.3 billion dollars in additional debt capacity
25 over the next ten years. And if the ratio is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 27
October 26, 1999
1 pushed up more to the 8 percent level, then we
2 have 12 billion dollars in additional debt
3 capacity available.
4 And under the more pessimistic scenario,
5 the 6 percent level because of declining State
6 revenues, the model would indicate that we have
7 no theoretical bonding capacity available; and
8 at the 8 percent level, 5 billion dollars of
9 bonding capacity available.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me just throw
11 out something for whatever it's worth.
12 I -- this is -- I mean, we're a very
13 conservative state when it comes to debt, in my
14 personal opinion, spent the last 25 years
15 involved in it.
16 If you look at the allowable debt for
17 individuals in long-term debt, such as
18 purchasing a home, which is what most
19 individual's long-term debt is, that sets in a
20 very high percentage, compared to 6 percent.
21 It's usually in excess of 25 percent.
22 So we -- in looking at a -- how
23 conservative is 6 percent, I think that it --
24 that we can say it's pretty conservative. And
25 it ought to be. Don't get me wrong. I'm not
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 28
October 26, 1999
1 advocating going to 25.
2 I just think it -- it's good to put it in
3 perspective, and let everybody realize how
4 conservative that truly is, compared to what
5 banks and credit agencies, who are purchasing
6 the mortgage backed securities that are backing
7 most of the mortgages that are done, and
8 they're sitting at 25, 30, 33 percent, some
9 cases higher, income ratios for the individuals
10 that are -- that are assigned on the debt.
11 MR. WATKINS: The -- the --
12 TREASURER NELSON: Ben, how do you get a
13 6 percent debt service to revenue as a target,
14 and how do you get 8 percent as a cap?
15 How do you arrive at those figures?
16 MR. WATKINS: There's -- there's not an
17 analytical process. I mean, it was through the
18 analytical process and assessing the volatility
19 during various economic cycles.
20 The external measures that we have to go by
21 indicate that from the rating agency's
22 perspective, once you reach 10 percent, it's
23 considered excessive; 5 to 10 percent is
24 considered moderate; and below 5 percent is
25 considered low.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 29
October 26, 1999
1 So it's really based on our best judgment
2 based on the analysis and the relative
3 volatility establishing the 6 and 8 percent as
4 guidelines.
5 It -- you never want -- once you get to
6 10 percent, you've obviously gone too far. In
7 my judgment, when you get to the 8 percent
8 level, we're -- we're talking about some very
9 negative rating implications potentially.
10 So the 6 -- and the 6 percent is our
11 current level of expected investment in debt
12 service. So it seemed reasonable based on
13 those parameters to establish the guidelines at
14 6 to 8 percent, but it's not a scientific
15 process.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ben, if -- you
17 started in 1989. It seems to me though that it
18 dropped to, like, two-and-a-half percent
19 I guess in 1990.
20 Back in the '70s and '80s, do you know --
21 have an idea what the ratio was? I mean, that
22 was before some of the constitutional
23 amendments passed that allowed additional debt
24 other than the original PECO debt. That was
25 about the only thing that was allowed back
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 30
October 26, 1999
1 then.
2 Do you know what the percent -- were we
3 sitting about 1 or 2, or some number like that?
4 MR. WATKINS: It's -- it's got to be low.
5 I mean, the phenomenon of debt issuance is not
6 unique to the State of Florida. I mean,
7 increasing the amount of debt, both for
8 governmental and from a personal standpoint.
9 There is a lot more acceptance and
10 liquidity in the credit markets, and -- and
11 people are using debt to their advantage.
12 The State of Florida has prior -- back in
13 the '70s, I don't know what the ratios were.
14 But they had to be less, simply because we
15 didn't have any constitutional authorization to
16 issue debt. And in order to pledge taxes in
17 the State of Florida, you have to have a
18 constitutional referendum.
19 And so it's really in the last ten years
20 that we've seen this tremendous investment in
21 infrastructure through the use of debt.
22 Although we had debt outstanding, it was not of
23 the magnitude that it is today.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think the other
25 thing that has to be looked at is in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 31
October 26, 1999
1 infrastructure that we've been financing
2 primarily in roads has been new, as opposed to
3 replacement and fixing.
4 Like, many of the northern states in what
5 they call the rust belt have a tremendous
6 backlog in necessary fixing of roads, fixing of
7 bridges, they're -- you know, they have --
8 they're old, they need to be replaced. And
9 we're not to that point yet. But we're going
10 to face that soon ourselves.
11 And I don't know what kind of planning
12 we've been doing for that. But if we look at
13 our sister states in the north, if you don't
14 plan for that, you're going to end up in the
15 critical place they're in without dollars to
16 replace that infrastructure.
17 MR. WATKINS: Well, largely our
18 infrastructure needs have been driven by
19 population growth in the state obviously, and
20 they relate to new facilities in schools and
21 roads and acquisition of environmentally
22 sensitive lands being the major programs.
23 So that it's -- the -- the model that we're
24 suggesting is timely in the sense that we're
25 now taking a more active role in providing
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 32
October 26, 1999
1 information to policymakers about our -- our
2 relative debt burden so that they can take that
3 information into account in formulating policy
4 initiatives and in -- in prioritizing capital
5 spending.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: One of the things that's
7 important to -- to recognize, that 9 billion
8 dollars is in the pipeline, in essence.
9 It's -- it's monies that have been committed,
10 correct?
11 MR. WATKINS: That's correct.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Programs that have been
13 committed.
14 So not -- not doing anything, we will have
15 close to a net 9 billion dollar increase. And
16 then if you consider ideas that have been in
17 the political realm being discussed right now:
18 Restoration of the Everglades, the unmet
19 transportation needs of the state, seaports,
20 airport issues that -- that may have some State
21 role to play --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Education.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- education and the -- and
24 the needs for continuing, you know, to -- to
25 lead the nation, and -- and the State's
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 33
October 26, 1999
1 commitment to building more schools. And this
2 policy is -- is overdue.
3 I mean, it is -- or it's timely. Let's
4 just say it's timely to factor this in, because
5 we also have current obligations that --
6 that -- I mean, if we lined up the needs of the
7 State -- or the wants of the State, at least,
8 there's significant pressures on general
9 revenue now.
10 We're -- we're close to the debt service
11 capacity of the doc stamp revenue. We can't
12 expand it much more in the out years, we get
13 below that 1.5 coverage ratio. So we're --
14 we're beginning to see some constraints because
15 of the doubling of our debt.
16 And it's a -- it's all intertwined with our
17 growth management issues that are being looked
18 at over the next couple of years, and -- and
19 the -- the adequate level of reserving for the
20 State, and the adequate level of spending for
21 the State on an ongoing basis.
22 One thing I think I'd love to see is a
23 balance sheet for the State as well, what we
24 own, an actual balance sheet of assets so that
25 we could have a little bit more comfort that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 34
October 26, 1999
1 this debt is -- is also being, as Tom said,
2 being invested in things of value that we own,
3 and -- and look at asset management as part of
4 this strategy as well, because the State does
5 not manage its assets. We don't even know what
6 we have.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- Governor, if I
8 may.
9 You know, we have been required now to,
10 in fact, get our arms around the assets. And
11 that certainly will either help or hurt our
12 rating on the street.
13 But that is one of the reasons why our
14 rating is, in fact, what it is, is largely
15 because of asset management.
16 I -- I was -- I'm glad you threw a little
17 water on what I was beginning to think was a
18 very optimistic view of where we are, because
19 Ben and I have been at this now for several
20 years.
21 In fact, back in '97, when he did the first
22 of these efforts, very few people paid much
23 attention to it. And -- and frankly, it wasn't
24 so bad because we were probably at about -- a
25 little over 4 percent I think at that time,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 35
October 26, 1999
1 four-and-a-half percent, somewhere in that
2 region.
3 And certainly my knowledge of benchmark
4 debt ratios of 5 percent was always in the --
5 in the -- in the world of economics and in the
6 university is 5 percent was always considered
7 kind of the -- the cut line.
8 And, of course, we are now well above that.
9 And if we do nothing, we are at worse, going to
10 be moving up if we have a slight cut in growth,
11 and hold our own if -- if we continue to grow
12 at the rate we're growing.
13 So I -- this is a very serious situation,
14 not one to be optimistic about what we can do
15 in anything in terms of bonding. You know,
16 my -- my view of his 8 percent is it's too damn
17 high, if you want to know the truth.
18 I don't think 8 percent is the ceiling we
19 ought to have. But, nevertheless, it's for
20 policymakers to try to talk about this, and
21 it's certainly important to get it out on the
22 table. And I think --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's good.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that's the best
25 thing that is happening here is it's now being
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 36
October 26, 1999
1 talked about, where we couldn't get any
2 conversation on it two or three years ago.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, just -- I
4 just want to make a couple of comments, since
5 we're kind of making some general comments
6 here.
7 That I think it's good we're taking a
8 long-term look at this, and where we're going
9 and -- and where we need to be. Where we've
10 been, I -- I feel very comfortable with that in
11 that as many people have said here, that the --
12 I think a lot of this -- the borrowing has been
13 smart.
14 When I see the -- the increase in the debt,
15 and it kind of, like, alarms me, it may alarm
16 taxpayers. But I think taxpayers can be
17 assured that -- and take comfort in that we
18 don't borrow money in the State of Florida
19 for -- to meet operational expenses, never
20 have, and I hope never will.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Here here.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And -- and,
23 secondly, all these increases that you've
24 delineated in debt have been debt with
25 dedicated revenue sources to, in fact, retire
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 37
October 26, 1999
1 that debt. So that makes it a very
2 conservative way of -- of moving forward with
3 debt.
4 And then thirdly, as -- as mentioned, this
5 debt was issued to purchase capital assets that
6 have tremendous value that would likely
7 increase with inflation. So it makes it wise
8 to make those kinds of investments for the
9 State.
10 So I think we're better off today because
11 of that. And I think taxpayers can take
12 comfort in that what this state has been doing
13 has been smart, and not dumb. Like maybe the
14 Federal government gets into borrowing for
15 operational expenses, we don't do that. And
16 I think that's -- that's the underpinning of --
17 of a solid financial strategy for the State.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ben.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Actually when we
20 do borrow for operational expenses, we borrow
21 from ourselves. So it doesn't go --
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's right.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But each year, we
24 do -- we do have a few months at the very
25 beginning of a year where we do have a cash
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 38
October 26, 1999
1 shortfall. But we borrow against our existing
2 money, so it doesn't -- it's not a big deal.
3 MR. WATKINS: Of the 9 billion dollars in
4 additional debt, Commissioner Gallagher,
5 three-and-a-half billion is for PECO, and
6 one-and-a-half billion's for the Lottery
7 Revenue Bond Program.
8 So that's 5 billion dollars in additional
9 debt devoted to education. And then we have an
10 additional 3 billion dollars expected under the
11 Florida Forever Program.
12 And so those are the major components of
13 the 9 billion dollars of expected debt issuance
14 over the next ten years.
15 In conclusion, Florida's debt ratios have
16 risen sharply over the last ten years, but are
17 still manageable at their current level. Debt
18 ratios and estimated debt capacity are
19 significantly affected by revenue growth.
20 And what that means is economic cycles do
21 have a -- a dramatic impact on our estimated
22 debt capacity. What we're recommending here is
23 that we integrate debt management policies with
24 the capital budgeting process.
25 So that this debt capacity model can be
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 39
October 26, 1999
1 used at the front end in formulating budget
2 recommendations, and information considered by
3 policymakers so that they have information
4 available to them about the long-term impact of
5 financing proposals when they're formulating
6 their capital spending plans.
7 And by doing this, you have a more
8 systematic way to prioritize capital spending
9 and develop capital spending plans. And the
10 model is -- is dynamic, it's not static. It
11 can be updated for information with respect to
12 the amount of debt issued, as well as future
13 revenue estimates.
14 So it -- it should be updated annually, and
15 should be evolved based on the facts -- the
16 best information that we have available at the
17 time.
18 And this information ought to be made
19 available to policymakers to guide them in
20 prioritizing capital spending, and in
21 formulating the capital budget for the State.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any comments?
23 We're -- I guess we have a -- a motion to
24 accept this --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to accept
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 40
October 26, 1999
1 it.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to accept,
4 and a second.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think this is
6 a --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
8 approved.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- at least
10 annually.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ben, I commend you for
12 your -- for this --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Good job.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- effort. It -- it was
15 really well done, and very appropriate and
16 timely.
17 MR. WATKINS: Thank you very much.
18 I'd like to thank my staff publicly for all
19 the hard work that they put together in
20 assimilating the data.
21 What you see here is really just the tip of
22 the iceberg in terms of the data that was
23 assimilated and analyzed in coming up with a
24 recommendation and establishing some -- the
25 guidelines that we've used here.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 41
October 26, 1999
1 Thank you very much.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
3 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
4 concluded.)
5 *
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 42
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Administration Commission.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item 2.
9 MS. SARTIN: It's a request for a transfer
10 of general revenue for Department of Children
11 and Families.
12 Also Items 3, 4, and 5 are requests for
13 transfers for Children and Families.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you get a little closer
15 to --
16 MS. SARTIN: Yes.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on Item 2
18 through 5.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MS. SARTIN: Thank you.
24 Items 6 and 7 are requests for a transfer
25 of general revenue appropriations for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 43
October 26, 1999
1 Department of Corrections.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 6 and 7.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, they're both --
7 MS. SARTIN: Ite--
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- approved.
9 MS. SARTIN: Item 8 is a request for
10 approval of a temporary loan for the Department
11 of Business & Professional Regulation.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 8.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion.
14 Is there a second?
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MS. SARTIN: Item 9 is a request for
19 approval of proposed rule revision to the
20 Florida Administrative Code for the Department
21 of Management Services.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 44
October 26, 1999
1 MS. SARTIN: Thank you.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Sandy.
3 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
4 concluded.)
5 *
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 45
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Thank you,
3 Governor.
4 We need a motion on the minutes.
5 I'll move it.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
7 Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 Item 2.
10 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is distribution of
11 100 million dollars from general revenue to
12 fixed capital outlay for restroom facilities
13 for K to 3 students. This item has been
14 deferred from previous meetings.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Does anybody want
16 to --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- speak on this?
19 Okay. Motion.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
23 approved.
24 Okay.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It went through a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 46
October 26, 1999
1 few --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It did. I --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- minor changes.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I thought you'd want to
5 show your scars or something at least.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Everybody is
7 putting up with the way it is.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Everybody's happy? No
9 one's here to --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No. Everybody's
11 putting up with the final decision.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, okay. There is a
13 difference, I guess.
14 MR. PIERSON: They're not all happy.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's right.
16 They're not all happy.
17 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is a report by
18 Escambia County Schools on progress of the
19 failing schools. Andrea Willett from the
20 Department will introduce the presenters.
21 MS. WILLETT: Good morning.
22 I came before you in June with the
23 Escambia County School District. And I'm back
24 again for a very brief introduction to their
25 report on what they have been doing.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 47
October 26, 1999
1 I wanted to walk you through your green
2 packet.
3 On the left-hand side, you have a copy of
4 the transparencies that you will be seeing very
5 shortly.
6 Behind that, you have Escambia County's
7 analysis in July, what they presented to their
8 own Board of -- of the number of students where
9 their -- where their students were, what they
10 needed to do, and the focus that they had for
11 the students that they were working with.
12 On the right-hand side, you have a copy of
13 the District Assistance and Intervention Plan
14 Update for Spencer Bibbs Academy.
15 Behind that, you have an update of the
16 Department recommendations from Spencer Bibbs
17 Academy.
18 Behind that, you have the District
19 Assistance and Intervention Update for
20 AA Dixon, and the Department recommendation
21 updates for AA Dixon.
22 A lot of material to read through, and so
23 we thought we'd kind of give it to you in -- in
24 very brief form through the Power Point
25 presentation. But we wanted you to know we had
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 48
October 26, 1999
1 the backup material for you.
2 In general, let me just remind you about
3 the school and where we are with these two
4 schools.
5 Escambia County is currently having
6 85 students attending a different public school
7 in Escambia County. They have -- in your
8 packet it says 56, but we've just updated that
9 to 53 students on opportunity scholarships.
10 Currently their class sizes at all grade levels
11 are approximately 1 to 22, or a little less.
12 They have addressed the attendance zone
13 issues by making sure that they reduce the
14 mobility by transporting children back to
15 wherever they originally enrolled in school so
16 that students are not moving from school to
17 school due to the parents moving because of
18 changes in residence, they're staying at the --
19 at the home school.
20 Ongoing parent teacher conferences have
21 been held starting in July, and they -- they
22 continue, although they're very formal in some
23 cases, they're also very informal. And
24 probably almost every day, there will be a
25 teacher and a parent talking.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 49
October 26, 1999
1 The school year has been extended. The
2 staff changes, there have been some staff
3 changes again made this school year. And
4 additionally, AIPs are being implemented and --
5 and just as a reminder, that's --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are AIP?
7 MS. WILLETT: -- education jargon for
8 Academic Improvement Plans.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
10 MS. WILLETT: It's an individual plan for
11 each individual low performing student,
12 Governor.
13 The State has an obligation here, and our
14 State support with these schools, we have
15 provided, and are continuing to provide on-site
16 assistance.
17 And the highly accomplished professional
18 you see working this computer is Jane Selman,
19 who is the team leader for this area, and has
20 been working directly with them. And we
21 couldn't do it without her, and her partner,
22 Jenne Palmer.
23 District level collaboration has occurred.
24 The District has formed a collaborative
25 assistance team for both of these schools.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 50
October 26, 1999
1 We -- the Department is -- are members of the
2 team, as well as District folks, people from
3 out the area. And they work directly with the
4 school, they support the school, do a lot of
5 tutoring with the students.
6 There is a regional support network of
7 groups that are funded by contract with the
8 Department of Education. They include the
9 Panhandle Area Educational Consortium;
10 certainly some Title 1 services; the Panhandle
11 Area Center for Educational Excellence funded
12 through the Department of Education, and the
13 Department are part of this regional support
14 network to reach out for additional people or
15 resources that they can use for these schools.
16 Certainly the District and the schools have
17 received additional grant opportunities. CSRD
18 is Comprehensive School Reform Demonstration
19 Program, a Federal project. They've gotten --
20 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
21 MS. WILLETT: -- local innovations money,
22 Line 134 in the budget.
23 Dixon Elementary has a School to Work
24 grant, and this year it was over -- over
25 $3,000.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 51
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What does an elementary
2 school do with a school to work grant?
3 MS. WILLETT: They begin a Career
4 Preparation Program using reading to read about
5 other things. But it -- reading about careers.
6 Reading is obviously the focus of what
7 they're doing, and they have reading grants.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: So --
9 MS. WILLETT: Yes, sir.
10 They have extended the school year. And
11 the Panhandle Area Educational Consortium has
12 also put in some grant money for staff
13 development opportunities.
14 And, Governor, the School to Work also does
15 staff development on reading issues as well.
16 Additionally -- additional funding, as you
17 can see by the slide, eight schools are getting
18 currently throughout the state $100 per
19 unweighted FTE per student in the school.
20 These two schools right now are -- have
21 received in excess of about 500 dollars per
22 student for the additional monies that we have
23 put into there. And you'll see them listed
24 below.
25 And I --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 52
October 26, 1999
1 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
2 MS. WILLETT: -- need to turn around here
3 just a moment.
4 The extended school year dollars were put
5 in for both of the schools. The reading
6 initiative was $25,000 per school; $50,000 for
7 each of the schools for CSRD, Comprehensive
8 School Reform.
9 And those combined really are over 500 per
10 student for D and F schools. And this is
11 occurring across the state for -- for the lower
12 performing schools.
13 The State Board of Education and Department
14 recommendations to the school. The District is
15 implementing its assistance and intervention
16 plan as they said they would, going a little
17 bit farther. There are District people
18 tutoring students on their own times at these
19 schools.
20 And for the Department recommendations at
21 the school level, they again are doing what it
22 is we expect them to do, looking at each
23 particular student at each grade level and
24 working very diligently with them. And
25 supplying a great deal of extra help to lower
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 53
October 26, 1999
1 performing school -- students.
2 That's a big overview. I would like for
3 you to hear the actual Depar-- Department --
4 District report and hear what they are doing,
5 and hear it from their mouth, because all the
6 information in the packet is from
7 Escambia County schools.
8 Superintendent May will be speaking to you
9 now.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome,
11 Mr. Superintendent.
12 MR. MAY: Thank you very much.
13 Jane, you want to give a little hand signal
14 or something?
15 Governor Bush, Honorable members of the
16 Cabinet, thank you very much for the
17 opportunity to come present to you this
18 morning.
19 If you would please allow me just a quick
20 introduction, I would like to introduce two
21 people who accompanied me here this morning.
22 First of all is Gene Pettis. He is the
23 Assistant Superintendent for Curriculum and
24 Instruction, a man who really is the mover and
25 shaker behind any reform issues with these two
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 54
October 26, 1999
1 schools.
2 Then Barbara Fry, who is the Director of
3 Information Services. And, Barbara, thank you
4 for coming.
5 Would like to begin by saying to you, first
6 of all, how much we've appreciated the
7 assistance of the Department of Education,
8 various members of the staff, Andrea Willett,
9 and others, have truly been a champ in working
10 through some very tough times for all of us.
11 And before we actually begin the report, I
12 know this is going to sound really strange for
13 anybody in education to talk about their local
14 newspaper.
15 But I'm going to just mention quickly my
16 local newspaper. The reporter's here, and it's
17 about time I get some good press, so I thought
18 I'd do this.
19 But this is the paper that has been
20 distributed for the last three days in
21 Escambia County. And what they have been
22 doing, they have done a special section, which
23 I would like to provide to all members of the
24 Cabinet in its entirety. Because it talks
25 about the baseline, talks about the behind the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 55
October 26, 1999
1 scenes of what's happening with students at
2 both AA Dixon and Spencer Bibbs.
3 I think what it does, it gives you a feel
4 for those students' lives. And nothing that I
5 can say to you here this morning means nearly
6 as much as going out and living the life of a
7 student who goes to one of those two schools.
8 And so I would ask your indulgence before
9 we leave to give you the distribution of that
10 newspaper. It's one of the finest articles
11 I've -- I've seen in a long time.
12 Okay. The -- you will see up there quickly
13 is just our District aims. And then we will
14 move to the Activities for Implementation.
15 Those activities -- and the way that we
16 have presented this to you, we basically took
17 the two schools and talked about the various
18 activities which we agreed upon together. That
19 was the staff development and staff meetings.
20 The next one is common planning time for
21 the various teams.
22 And the third one then is implementing
23 alternative deliveries of classroom teaching
24 and coaching.
25 If we move to the next slide, this is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 56
October 26, 1999
1 another area upon which we agreed, and that
2 was, we're going to try to reduce the
3 absenteeism among our students.
4 I know, Governor, when you -- you made your
5 visit to our county, that you actually visited
6 the home of a kindergarten student. And I'm
7 sure that gave you a real good feel for what
8 it's like trying to get some of these students
9 to come to school.
10 It truly is an effort, and it truly has
11 been just major hard work by the teachers and
12 principals.
13 But --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: How's it going?
15 MR. MAY: Sir?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: How's the attendance?
17 MR. MAY: The attendance has -- has
18 basically improved, but only slightly. But --
19 but I think the slight improvement is due to
20 those efforts of everyone, including yourself.
21 The next --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't --
23 MR. MAY: -- thing would be --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- won't get much credit I
25 don't think. That's -- the day I went, the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 57
October 26, 1999
1 child didn't go to school. It took your
2 principal going back and -- heroically the next
3 Monday to do it. So she deserves all the
4 praise.
5 MR. MAY: Well, thank you for saying that.
6 And, of course, I could go into that and
7 talk about that, and -- and probably that's
8 what I need to be talking about instead of
9 these things.
10 You know, we -- we have a principal, and
11 both of those principals, when kids have not
12 had their immunizations, they pick up those
13 children, take them to the Health Department,
14 and arrange for those things to be done.
15 I think that's the part that will be
16 missing in my report is the heroics of all
17 those people and what they do on a daily basis.
18 And -- and I wish I could do better at
19 that. But I thank you for bringing that up,
20 Governor.
21 The -- the next item, of course, is the
22 daily calls to parents. We are waiting
23 delivery still of our automated phone system.
24 But there are pluses and minuses to any phone
25 system in the classroom, because they do cause
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 58
October 26, 1999
1 disruptions. In the last one, we are referring
2 the students with lots of absenteeism to the
3 Child Study Team.
4 I will also assure you, Governor, that as
5 has been passed in the House Bill 751
6 legislation, I will be pressing charges against
7 those parents who do not bring their students
8 to -- the child in excess of those 20 days.
9 As a matter of fact, the day after that
10 went into effect, I filed three sets of
11 charges.
12 The --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There's one other
14 thing that I want -- I might want to mention
15 here.
16 MR. MAY: Sure.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There's also a
18 provision in the law that -- that states that
19 welfare payments that are collected by parents
20 whose children don't show up in school are at
21 risk. And we haven't done a very good job in
22 this state in enforcing that.
23 So I think that's something else that we
24 need to look at jointly, Governor, in letting
25 parents know that if their children aren't in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 59
October 26, 1999
1 school, and they are collecting money through a
2 welfare program, that they are at risk of
3 losing it.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Give the
5 check to the child to take home.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That may be one
7 way to do it.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: For the
9 report card. If the child's not in school, he
10 doesn't -- he doesn't get the check.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But right now, we
12 haven't -- we haven't very well coordinated
13 absenteeism with -- with payments, but we need
14 to do that.
15 Sorry. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
16 MR. MAY: No -- no, that's -- that's fine.
17 I think that's an excellent point. And,
18 of course, there's a catch-22 with that.
19 When you have kids who come to school
20 hungry, you know, you wonder about that issue,
21 too.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't think the law
23 provides for taking benefits away from the
24 children.
25 MR. MAY: Okay.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 60
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: In fact, this -- wasn't
2 this law, Tom, passed as -- before WAGES --
3 before the welfare to work? Because now we
4 don't have welfare, we have --
5 MR. MAY: Right.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- women are -- are -- have
7 to spend at least 30 hours working or going to
8 school.
9 So it may be a little different now than it
10 was, but maybe not. I don't know.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There's still a
12 connection that we've got -- I think we can
13 work that out.
14 MR. MAY: Okay. The -- the next part,
15 which we agreed upon, was to return students to
16 their home schools from anywhere in the County
17 where they might move. We have been doing
18 that, and that has already been occurring.
19 And we're hoping that that will be a real
20 plus, because it will provide a continuity of
21 education that hasn't been there before.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much -- how --
23 Superintendent, how many students have been
24 impacted by your mobility policy?
25 MR. MAY: At this time, only three. But --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 61
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: In the two schools? Or --
2 MR. MAY: That's correct.
3 But they were three students who will be
4 tested. They -- they are in the fourth and
5 fifth grades, which will be a part of the FCAT
6 testing.
7 The next item, of course, was to give the
8 principal and School Advisory Councils the
9 ability to create budgets on their own.
10 And as you'll see at the next one, we've
11 had staffing requisitions, purchase orders,
12 lots of additional things spent to enhance
13 instruction. So we're -- we're pretty proud of
14 that.
15 The next thing again that we had agreed
16 upon was to have school-wide conferences for
17 each grading period. And you can see that the
18 conferences are held each grading period, and
19 reports are given to parents on the next --
20 Yes.
21 And then, of course, the third thing is, we
22 have weekly conferences, home visits, phone
23 calls. I think that's the thing that has
24 impressed me the most about the -- the staff.
25 And -- and not just teachers, the entire
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 62
October 26, 1999
1 staff -- would be the number of calls and the
2 number of visits they keep making to homes in
3 hopes of enhancing these students' education.
4 The next thing is the after school tutorial
5 programs. And we are trying to target, as you
6 might well guess, reading, writing, and
7 mathematics. We have an extended day program
8 and a neighborhood learning program.
9 And, of course, the -- the next one is
10 we've extended the hours of operation from 9:00
11 to 12:00 on Saturdays for what they call a
12 Super Saturday.
13 I can give you those numbers if you'd
14 actually like to know --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many kids are
16 participating?
17 MR. MAY: At Dixon, we've had 63 students
18 participating; and at Bibbs, 47.
19 The next item, you can really see something
20 about the number of community volunteers that
21 have been participating in these two schools.
22 I just want to share with you these numbers,
23 because to me they're -- they're truly
24 incredible.
25 We have over 400 just business partners.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 63
October 26, 1999
1 And I'm just talking business partners, I'm not
2 talking about the individual partnerships.
3 Those business partners alone volunteered
4 over 500,000 hours last year. And I think
5 that's pretty incredible, and it tells me
6 something about the community, and the way that
7 they've rallied around. They haven't
8 forgotten, they haven't trashed, they haven't
9 discarded these schools. Basically they have
10 rallied around them, and I'm very proud of
11 that.
12 The next item is some of the technical
13 assistance, which --
14 And let's just go ahead and go on through
15 those, Jane.
16 Lots of technical assistance, which we've
17 provided. You can see all of those items. And
18 I'm not going to cover them, because I think
19 you're well aware of them.
20 Moving to the next slide, we're going to
21 talk about some District facilitation. Those
22 District facilitators have been meeting on a
23 weekly -- or, excuse me, biweekly basis where
24 they talk about best practices and items that
25 have worked.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 64
October 26, 1999
1 And -- and another thing that I'm, again,
2 very proud of is that we have given all --
3 Escambia County School District employees
4 1 hour a week to volunteer at those two
5 schools, and they do -- there are quite a
6 number of them that do that. We've actually
7 reduced it to about a 1 and 1 ratio during that
8 1-hour time. So we're very proud of that.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you doing any
10 assessment of the students' reading and math --
11 MR. MAY: Absolutely. Yes, sir.
12 And I was going --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to --
14 MR. MAY: -- to get --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- give us --
16 MR. MAY: -- to that.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
18 MR. MAY: Well, no. I can do it now if
19 you'd like.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. No. I --
21 MR. MAY: Okay.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you're going to get to
23 it, that's fine.
24 MR. MAY: All right.
25 Again, more of the collaboration that has
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 65
October 26, 1999
1 occurred with the community, state, and
2 regional. And -- and, again, I just want to
3 say how much we've appreciated -- I know that
4 the Commissioner has offered --
5 Commissioner Gallagher, since we have a room
6 full of commissioners.
7 But Commissioner Gallagher did offer even a
8 grants writer to come sit with us and help us
9 to -- to figure out other ideas and methods.
10 And, of course, Andrea Willett, again, has been
11 just wonderful in working with us.
12 Next slide, please.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Nelson.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Superintendent --
15 MR. MAY: Oh, I'm sorry. You probably want
16 to go back to that one, if we could, Jane.
17 I --
18 TREASURER NELSON: No. I'm just -- I want
19 to ask a general question.
20 First --
21 MR. MAY: Yes, sir --
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- of all --
23 MR. MAY: -- Treasurer Nelson.
24 TREASURER NELSON: -- I'm -- I'm very
25 impressed about what you're doing.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 66
October 26, 1999
1 MR. MAY: Thank you.
2 TREASURER NELSON: And I think it's clearly
3 one of the consequences of trying to reevaluate
4 this whole question of -- of our educational
5 system.
6 Do you have any way of quantifying what you
7 estimate a cost per student of additional help,
8 as you have been outlining in this
9 presentation, will be for these students in
10 those two F schools?
11 MR. MAY: I would not be at all
12 surprised -- and, by the way, I know you and I
13 had the opportunity during your visit to talk
14 briefly about these things. And I do
15 appreciate your coming and showing that
16 interest, and thank you very much for that.
17 But if -- if I give you a figure, which
18 I think I can, it's going to be a guess, and I
19 wouldn't want you to realize that it is a
20 guess.
21 But -- but I think that we can well say
22 that we've added in the neighborhood of 1,000
23 to $1200 cost per child at those two schools.
24 TREASURER NELSON: And that's on the basis
25 that there's, what, several hundred in each of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 67
October 26, 1999
1 those --
2 MR. MAY: There are 800 students in those
3 two schools --
4 TREASURER NELSON: And is that --
5 MR. MAY: -- combined.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- 1,000 to $1200 per
7 child --
8 MR. MAY: Extra.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Extra.
10 Is that resources that you have found
11 within Escambia County, or is that resources
12 that have come from the outside. Just tell us
13 about that.
14 MR. MAY: Well, DOE, once again, I want to
15 be fair about it, has been quite good about
16 helping us to find additional resources.
17 And I would say they have certainly covered
18 around 50 percent of those additional resources
19 through their many grants and through their
20 other initiatives that they've assisted us
21 with.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Do you have other
23 schools in Escambia County that are rated F?
24 MR. MAY: Yes, we do. We have seven other
25 schools.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 68
October 26, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: Is -- and -- and what
2 distinguishes them from Bibbs and Dixon is the
3 fact that Bibbs and Dixon has been on for
4 two years.
5 MR. MAY: That's correct. That's correct.
6 TREASURER NELSON: Is similar kind of
7 assistance being given to those other seven
8 F schools?
9 MR. MAY: That's absolutely correct.
10 Yes, sir. What we have done is many of the
11 exact same assistance plans, with the exception
12 of the 210-day school year, have been
13 implemented at both -- or at all -- at the
14 other schools.
15 So we're using the same kinds of plans, had
16 the same kind of district intervention, have
17 the same kind of district facilitation at the
18 other schools. And we fully expect to see them
19 make some major movements. But that's an
20 excellent question, and I thank you for asking
21 that.
22 TREASURER NELSON: And is the approximate
23 same amount of financial assistance per child
24 1,000 to $1200, being rendered to those other
25 seven schools?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 69
October 26, 1999
1 MR. MAY: Actually, no, not the exact
2 amount. Because we are not doing the 210-day
3 school year, and that's the major difference.
4 Everything else is the same: Class size,
5 intervention strategies, reading grants. All
6 of those kind of things are the same.
7 The difference is the 210-day school year.
8 TREASURER NELSON: And is that a major part
9 of that $1,000 or 1200?
10 MR. MAY: Yes, sir, that is.
11 TREASURER NELSON: The 210-day you --
12 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
13 TREASURER NELSON: -- mentioned.
14 MR. MAY: Okay.
15 And -- and, again, excellent questions,
16 because we do not want to slight one over the
17 other. And, of course, I'm a -- I'm a big
18 believer in the 210-day school year, and wish
19 that we could do that for all students.
20 Unfortunately, when you start raising
21 funding by one/sixth, sixteen and two-thirds
22 percent, you're going to find that it's
23 probably beyond all of our budgets.
24 TREASURER NELSON: As you look to the
25 future on the question of the budgets, in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 70
October 26, 1999
1 confronting F schools in Escambia County --
2 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
3 TREASURER NELSON: -- and then confronting
4 D schools and so forth, what does this do to
5 your budgetary planning?
6 MR. MAY: Well, it -- it has been a strain
7 on the budget. And I -- I will not tell you
8 different. It's been a strain on the budget,
9 it's been tough.
10 But, again, we've got to -- we've got to
11 take a look at those four aims with which I
12 began. And if highest student achievement is
13 truly our number one aim, then we've got to put
14 our money where our mouth is, and that's what
15 we are trying to do, Mr. Nelson.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you, Governor.
17 MR. MAY: Okay.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 MR. MAY: Okay.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: All of that was just words
21 of wondrous beauty for the Attorney General in
22 defense of our lawsuit. We appreciate the
23 conversation.
24 MR. MAY: Well, I've got to be honest with
25 you, Governor, that was not what I was trying
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 71
October 26, 1999
1 to do.
2 Okay.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me just
4 mention that we've gotten a lot of editorial
5 criticism that -- that we have been giving
6 A schools, and those schools that have shown a
7 large amount of improvement, $100 a student,
8 which we just passed out on September 28th, and
9 there-- thereabout 28 million dollars.
10 And at the same time, I think what
11 information just came out of this conversation
12 that you just had, that the truth of the matter
13 is that there are people have been complaining
14 that those schools that were not performing
15 weren't getting the same help that the
16 A schools were getting, and the schools that
17 improved a lot were getting.
18 The truth of the matter is that resources
19 have been rightfully moved to these schools by
20 the districts to help them. We in the State
21 have given them priority in grants, as you have
22 taken advantage of that, and that's happening
23 across the state.
24 And this is a prime example where there was
25 more than $100 per student coming into these --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 72
October 26, 1999
1 these schools that needed that help.
2 And so I think we need to point that out so
3 that everybody doesn't think we're just taking
4 care of the schools that have, you know,
5 continued to do well, and -- and are As, or
6 have shown great improvement.
7 We want to continue to reward them.
8 I think that's a very important part of the
9 entire educational system.
10 At the same time, we are very interested in
11 assisting the districts with those schools that
12 need help.
13 MR. MAY: Okay.
14 If we can move along --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner --
16 MR. MAY: -- then and --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excuse me.
18 MR. MAY: -- go ahead and --
19 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. May, let me just ask
20 you --
21 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- perhaps you can't
23 answer this. But I would be curious on -- on
24 the basis of your presentation with regard to
25 Escambia, have you conferred with other
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 73
October 26, 1999
1 superintendents, are they doing like things in
2 other districts with regard to the F schools?
3 MR. MAY: To be honest with you,
4 Mr. Nelson, that would be a guess on my part.
5 Yes, I have talked to other superintendents.
6 But I -- I really can't tell you that answer.
7 I'm sorry.
8 Moving to the next area, we want to show
9 you just sort of -- and, Governor, this was one
10 of your questions -- the diagnostic assessments
11 of -- first of all, we'll talk about reading as
12 it would relate to FCAT data. You can see that
13 they're ongoing.
14 And moving through each of those things, I
15 just want you to see that we're -- we're using
16 a variety of assessment instruments, and a
17 variety of techniques of -- any of which I
18 would be glad to discuss with you.
19 But unless you do have questions about
20 specific techniques, I'll just move on.
21 I do want you to see what those assessments
22 are, and there have been additional assessments
23 which were formed that I'll probably talk about
24 in a minute, too.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I was -- I was very
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 74
October 26, 1999
1 impressed with the implementation of the direct
2 instruction technique I guess that would be, of
3 reading. It was --
4 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I've been to schools
6 where they say -- the principal and teachers
7 say they have direct instructions, but it's not
8 the core of their -- of their teaching.
9 And in both schools, I thought that it was
10 really the central element of teaching. And
11 I think it's -- it was -- I just got a sense
12 that it's -- it's going to be very effective.
13 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Have you gotten any kind of
15 early indications of the focus of using that
16 means of reading?
17 MR. MAY: Yes, we have, as a matter of
18 fact. Particularly in the students at
19 AA Dixon, at the end of last year, we found
20 that all of our first grade students were
21 tested at grade level.
22 And I think that's --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's --
24 MR. MAY: -- incredible. And the reason
25 that I say that's so incredible, Governor, and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 75
October 26, 1999
1 I want to just say this to you.
2 There is a correlation between poverty and
3 achievement. I mean, we're not -- we're not
4 trying to make excuses. And I believe all
5 children can learn with all my heart.
6 But I want you to know, I believe there is
7 a correlation between what kind of
8 interventions occur in a child's early life,
9 what kind of dendrite connections do occur,
10 what kind of just pure experiences -- does that
11 parent sit and read that child a book, do they
12 ever listen to music, on and on and on. Do
13 they just take time to talk with them?
14 Well, what we find through the KSI, which
15 is the Kindergarten Survey Instrument, is that
16 these kids will come to us developmentally
17 equal to three year olds. And -- and that puts
18 us behind the 8 ball. All kids do not start
19 the same.
20 And so that's why we were so ecstatic when
21 we saw these first graders that were actually
22 reading. Now, that doesn't mean their math was
23 up to par or their writing was up to par.
24 But -- but I believe that anyone sitting in
25 this panel would first of all agree with me
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 76
October 26, 1999
1 that reading is basic to anything else --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
3 MR. MAY: -- that's going to occur.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If I -- if I may
5 just say one quick thing. I think that your
6 statement is right in regards to has been. It
7 has been a correlation.
8 And I think that we, and you are showing,
9 that there's an opportunity now to break that
10 excuse and belief that because of the
11 background of a child, that they are hindered
12 in where they can go in regards to their
13 education.
14 Taking these children in first grade and
15 having them all read at first grade level,
16 they're now in second grade, hopefully they're
17 staying right with it is a sign that it is not
18 a truism that background relates to educational
19 capacity.
20 It's a lot more work, it's a huge
21 challenge. These schools are living up to this
22 huge challenge. I think you're right, and
23 we're working on readiness. It's a very
24 important part of it.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 77
October 26, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But I think we
2 need to look to the future as -- instead of
3 saying, that's just the way it is, I think we
4 need to say, that's the way it might have been
5 perceived in the past. Because we're showing
6 major changes in these schools of yours.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
9 Governor.
10 I'm really very impressed, and everybody
11 is, what you are doing, and the -- the
12 principals and teachers are doing.
13 And I think when we heard a presentation
14 last year, we were finding that most of the --
15 of the children in these two schools were not
16 ready for school. We were literally starting
17 75 yards behind, and asked to run 100 yard dash
18 for everybody else.
19 Are you able to put any other -- any more
20 effort into that school readiness for your --
21 for your feeder neighborhoods into your
22 F schools, or are you basically still doing
23 what you have in the past?
24 I mean, are you able to still go into
25 there, or -- even though it's not your
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 78
October 26, 1999
1 responsibility, but -- you want them ready for
2 school. And -- and -- or you're going to have
3 to continue to have F schools and D schools and
4 put this extra emphasis on.
5 And if you just put -- if you just break
6 that cycle early on before they get to you, do
7 you have anything in place that's going to help
8 you do that?
9 Or do you have any suggestions for other
10 superintendents?
11 MR. MAY: Yes, yes to both of your
12 questions. And I will say that you're right on
13 target. That -- that the key to this whole
14 process is to break that cycle early in a
15 child's life.
16 And we do have neighborhood learning
17 centers that we have presented around both of
18 those schools, and many other schools in our
19 area. We're a poor county. Escambia County is
20 nearly 60 percent free and reduced lunches.
21 That's a poor county by -- by any standards in
22 the state of Florida.
23 We have certain core pockets where we do
24 have these neighborhood learning centers going
25 on where we have lots more than that. We have
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 79
October 26, 1999
1 the pre-K centers, the head start programs, the
2 whole early childhood coalition, as you know,
3 that was recently formed, and I am a part of
4 that committee.
5 And -- and I could not agree with you more,
6 Attorney General Butterworth. This is the key
7 to us being successful. If those kids are
8 going to -- and this is proven. I mean,
9 research shows that if by the time they're
10 three years old, we haven't give them these
11 kinds of star-- given them these kinds of
12 starts, that they're probably not going to
13 catch up, because there will be connections
14 that don't occur.
15 So I couldn't agree with you more; and,
16 yes, we're stressing it; and, yes, we believe
17 in it with all of our hearts.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But how can
19 you get parents or a parent to drop their child
20 off at a child learning center? I mean, do you
21 have any -- any mechanism, or is there any
22 way -- maybe there isn't a way.
23 But is there any way of knocking on doors
24 and basically --
25 MR. MAY: Well, we absolutely do all of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 80
October 26, 1999
1 that.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
3 MR. MAY: Yes, sir. Absolutely we do it
4 all.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jim, are you using the --
6 I'm going to -- I forgot what the name of the
7 527 million dollar fund, the --
8 MR. MAY: Supplemental.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the new --
10 Supplemental. Is -- is there -- are there
11 any new strategies that you're using -- using
12 that money to finance, if you will?
13 MR. MAY: Well, Governor, the -- the
14 supplemental fund -- and you're probably going
15 to be sorry you asked me this question --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It --
17 MR. MAY: -- because --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it didn't get
19 much.
20 MR. MAY: -- the supplemental fund in the
21 past has been used for dropout prevention, for
22 summer school programs, for remedial programs,
23 for these kind of programs, and everything
24 else.
25 When we took the sum total of what we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 81
October 26, 1999
1 received in -- in all of those programs, it was
2 11.3 million. The new supplemental dollars
3 actually amounted to 9.3 million.
4 So there was a 2 million dollar difference.
5 And actually what we've cut out are the summer
6 school programs.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: How does --
8 MR. MAY: And maybe --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how does that work --
10 MR. MAY: -- that's paid --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if we invest it --
12 MR. MAY: Sir?
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- at the State level,
14 there's a 70 million dollar increase --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on a 430 million dollar
17 base, the math doesn't work very well in
18 Escambia.
19 How does that --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's formula
21 driven.
22 MR. MAY: Oh -- and I'm glad you're asking
23 this.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And it is -- it
25 is -- it is a problem for certain counties.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 82
October 26, 1999
1 And we've -- we've --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's something we can look
3 at adjusting to --
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, it's very
5 hard to get -- should it be? Probably yes.
6 And as you know, the Legislature is looking
7 at the whole FEFP, Florida Educational Finance
8 Program. But it is highly political.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, yeah.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- and one of
11 the problems is that --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I'm not sorry I asked
13 it because I --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No, it does need
15 to be looked at.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: The whole focus, and this
17 may come as a surprise to you, Mr. May, but the
18 whole focus of this effort of greater
19 accountability comes with -- with it more money
20 for you to accomplish the task of defying
21 conventional wisdom.
22 So we're --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It should.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we've proven that.
25 MR. MAY: And I appreciate your asking me
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 83
October 26, 1999
1 the question. And I'm going to hand this out,
2 because I think it's an excellent question --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Looks like you were ready
4 for it.
5 MR. MAY: But I think it's important that I
6 share it.
7 I've never been up here. This is a great
8 place. What a view that you have.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You can see the
10 world from here.
11 MR. MAY: I tell you. Wonderful spot.
12 And the reason that I -- I pass that out to
13 you, I want to show you some things about
14 finance --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There'll --
16 there'll be --
17 MR. MAY: Do you like it better here?
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a couple of
19 openings --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There's a
21 couple of openings over here next year.
22 MR. MAY: Oh, okay.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You might
24 want to --
25 MR. MAY: And I'm not going to touch that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 84
October 26, 1999
1 one.
2 But I want to share with you, since you
3 asked me the question about funding, and I'm
4 going to cover this extremely quickly, because
5 I know this is not the reason I'm here.
6 But I want you to look at the comparison of
7 generated FTE, which is the tax millage. And
8 this basically just shows you how poor our
9 county is. We've compared our county to other
10 districts.
11 And you'll see that we earn, with our
12 tax millage, okay, the discretionary millage,
13 we earn $80 per child, compared to counties
14 like Collier and Sarasota, that are well over
15 300.
16 Turn to the next page, the FRS savings, how
17 much? You know, we talked about increasing the
18 budget. The final conference report said that
19 our district would get 9.537 million. The
20 actual amount was 7.62. That's a difference of
21 almost 2 million. And you can see the reasons.
22 And it wasn't anybody's fault, and I'm not
23 placing blame.
24 It's just simply when it was computed out,
25 the Senate used total retirement savings on
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 85
October 26, 1999
1 salaries paid from all sources. But since that
2 included food service, Federal programs,
3 categorical funding and projects, it was re--
4 it was an impact of 1.9.
5 Turn to the third page --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's amazing that you put
7 so much money into these schools with this
8 shortfall.
9 MR. MAY: I'm doing great, aren't I?
10 I mean, maybe you ought to consider me for one
11 of those two jobs next year.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I -- well, you can look at
13 it two ways: You could -- you certainly have
14 done great as it relates to this year. But one
15 would question what happened last year?
16 MR. MAY: That's right.
17 Moving to the -- moving to the district
18 cost differential. When you figured in the
19 DCD, you know, we --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's --
21 MR. MAY: -- talked about the base student
22 allocation going up this year.
23 I want you to know that with the DCD
24 figured in, we actually went down $12.30 last
25 year on the amount of dollars per student.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 86
October 26, 1999
1 And I've already talked to you about the
2 next page, which was the supplemental
3 instruction. We -- and -- and I just think
4 it's important, since you brought up the
5 question about finance, that I share those
6 figures. And if it's all right, I'll --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate it.
8 MR. MAY: -- stop and get back to the
9 report.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep. Thanks.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, let me ask
12 you a question though. You should have been
13 held harmless on a decrease.
14 MR. MAY: No, sir, we were not.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Why weren't you?
16 MR. MAY: But I would be glad to get $12
17 for 46,000 students.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I understand. But
19 I thought that the formula held a -- held
20 harmless on -- on decreases.
21 MR. MAY: No, sir.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can we make
24 a motion?
25 MR. MAY: Yes. I would be glad to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 87
October 26, 1999
1 entertain a motion here, Governor, if --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's a lot more
3 complicated than that, unfortunately.
4 MR. MAY: Oh, okay.
5 Well, you know, it's worth trying. I made
6 the trip over here.
7 Develop and implement Individual Academic
8 Improvement Plans. I think that you're very
9 well aware of this, and we'll just go on
10 through that, unless there are questions.
11 Now, this is, I think, pretty significant
12 under the reading programs, as you look at the
13 things that we're actually doing. Common
14 90-minute block.
15 And then moving through the different
16 things, you can see that we're using all the
17 way through accelerated reader and a variety of
18 different ideas, thoughts. And some of them,
19 as you've said, Governor, the direct
20 instruction.
21 Moving to the next one, Sing, Spell, Read,
22 and Write. If you've ever -- and if I'm not
23 mistaken, both of you had an opportunity to sit
24 in one of those classrooms as they were going
25 through that?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 88
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Uh-hum.
2 MR. MAY: That's very interesting, and
3 we've seen some incredible gains. Dixon, as I
4 said, actually brought their kids up. They're
5 using it at the first grade level now, and
6 they're finding that those kids are coming up
7 to grade level.
8 Okay. Moving to the next slide.
9 School-wide reading across the curriculum
10 strategies. And you can see that both schools
11 are using special area teachers, and not just
12 the reading teachers, to teach reading every
13 day in every class. And I think that's a very
14 important component.
15 Next slide.
16 Extended learning year. And we've -- we've
17 basically discussed this, so I'll just go ahead
18 and move on through that one, too, Jane.
19 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a --
20 MR. MAY: Yeah.
21 TREASURER NELSON: -- question?
22 I -- I didn't --
23 MR. MAY: Oh, I'm sorry, Treasurer --
24 TREASURER NELSON: Mr. May, I didn't follow
25 up earlier. I was just curious.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 89
October 26, 1999
1 Of that 1,000 and 1200 that you said was
2 applicable --
3 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- that you're putting
5 the resources together per child for Bibbs and
6 Dixon, you said the same would be applicable to
7 your other seven F schools.
8 MR. MAY: With the --
9 TREASURER NELSON: With the --
10 MR. MAY: -- exception --
11 TREASURER NELSON: -- exception of the
12 210-day extension.
13 MR. MAY: That's correct. Yes, sir.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Can you quantify that so
15 that I'll know how much that you're spending
16 per student on those other seven schools?
17 MR. MAY: You mean how much is the 210-day
18 school year --
19 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah.
20 MR. MAY: -- coming out?
21 TREASURER NELSON: You said it was a -- my
22 question was, was it a big part of that; and
23 you said, yes.
24 MR. MAY: Yes, it is.
25 TREASURER NELSON: Give me an idea.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 90
October 26, 1999
1 MR. MAY: And -- and you will remember,
2 again, that this is my guess.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Sure.
4 MR. MAY: Okay.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Sure.
6 MR. MAY: I would say that it's at least
7 five to six hundred dollars of that.
8 TREASURER NELSON: So you're looking at
9 500 or $600 then that's -- that -- resources
10 that you've pulled together per student for
11 each of those other seven --
12 MR. MAY: Yeah.
13 TREASURER NELSON: -- F schools.
14 MR. MAY: And I -- and, again, I want to be
15 totally up front and honest about what I'm
16 saying here. We also included some Federal
17 dollars and Title I dollars in that which were
18 enhancements.
19 TREASURER NELSON: And -- and what made --
20 MR. MAY: Of course, they -- the dollars
21 have to come from somewhere. Yeah.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah. What made it
23 eligible? What -- what -- why did you get the
24 Federal dollars for this?
25 MR. MAY: Well, we basically have set a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 91
October 26, 1999
1 criteria in our county -- well, it's Title I
2 schools, which, of course, are poverty schools.
3 And remember I said earlier in the
4 presentation that our county is 60 percent?
5 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
6 MR. MAY: Well, what we have done is take
7 any school with over 65 percent poverty, and
8 put those additional dollars. Because, quite
9 frankly, whether you agree with the correlation
10 or not, every one of our D or F schools has a
11 greater than 80 percent poverty level.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Right.
13 MR. MAY: I mean, every one of them. That
14 is the correlation.
15 TREASURER NELSON: My question is, that is
16 an eligibility that is there regardless --
17 MR. MAY: Right.
18 TREASURER NELSON: -- of whether it's D or
19 F or C or whatever. That Title I money is
20 there.
21 MR. MAY: But the amount is what's
22 variable, Mr. Nelson. And we have put -- put
23 more dollars into those schools. That's what's
24 variable is the amount you choose.
25 In other words, some --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 92
October 26, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: Do you have the
2 discretion on that --
3 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- Title I money --
5 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- as to which school it
7 goes into?
8 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
9 TREASURER NELSON: I see.
10 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
11 And that's only a part of it. I mean,
12 regular FTE, categoricals, food service, I
13 could go on and on and on.
14 Every single one --
15 TREASURER NELSON: Sure.
16 MR. MAY: -- of our budgets in
17 Escambia County, and every one of our FTEs in
18 each of the myriad categories that you're all
19 well aware of, have transferred dollars to
20 these students.
21 Is that --
22 TREASURER NELSON: Fine. Yes.
23 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you.
25 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 93
October 26, 1999
1 TREASURER NELSON: Just final question on
2 this subject is --
3 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- the pot of money that
5 you get on Title I for your school district --
6 MR. MAY: Uh-hum.
7 TREASURER NELSON: -- is determined on what
8 criteria?
9 MR. MAY: The -- the pot of money from
10 Title I?
11 TREASURER NELSON: That you've been
12 distributing out to these schools, that pot of
13 money from which you draw is determined how?
14 MR. MAY: It's a Federal funding formula.
15 And it's --
16 TREASURER NELSON: Based --
17 MR. MAY: -- based on --
18 TREASURER NELSON: -- on poverty --
19 MR. MAY: -- number of poverty students
20 that we have in our District. Yes, sir.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
22 MR. MAY: Is that --
23 TREASURER NELSON: (Nodding head.)
24 MR. MAY: Okay?
25 All right. Moving along then with the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 94
October 26, 1999
1 slide presentation, you can see which one --
2 which ones of these things, and you can see the
3 various procedures that we're using. And,
4 again, I'm not going to spend a lot of time.
5 We're going to go to the math section next.
6 And in the math area, you'll see that again
7 we've done diagnostic assessments of each
8 student's skills. And we use not only FCAT and
9 local data, but we also have County
10 assessments, which have been aligned to both
11 the Sunshine State Standards and to the FCAT
12 test itself.
13 We have purchased a new math reading
14 series, Blast Off. And these things all
15 perfectly align. Plus Dr. Pettis has created
16 an item called Essential Curriculum
17 Requirements which aligns it even further, and
18 develops 14 different categories at every grade
19 level for every subject.
20 And just -- as I said, it's -- it's a total
21 aligning everything with one giant arrow that
22 says, this is what we're going to concentrate
23 on, and that --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: So how do you --
25 MR. MAY: -- is the --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 95
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how do you think --
2 MR. MAY: -- Sunshine State --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you're doing?
4 MR. MAY: How do I think we're --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Given --
6 MR. MAY: -- doing?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the fact that
8 Pensacola's --
9 MR. MAY: Well, I -- I'll get to that, if
10 you'll allow me. But I can -- I mean, I can
11 stop now and do it. But if --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Given the fact you're close
13 to -- you're closer to Biloxi and the casino
14 gambling halls than any other part of the
15 state.
16 So if you're a gambling man, how do you
17 think -- when the FCAT tests are
18 administered --
19 MR. MAY: Okay.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how do you think we're
21 doing?
22 MR. MAY: I think that's a fair question,
23 but you again may not like my answer.
24 My answer is basically this: That will I
25 be able to stand up here and guarantee the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 96
October 26, 1999
1 members of the Cabinet that kids who begin at a
2 readiness level of a three year old will be
3 able to have overcome any hurdles by the time
4 they're at the fifth grade, when 62 percent of
5 them have already been moving to many schools
6 throughout the district? Because, remember,
7 we've only been doing this one year.
8 Do I think that they will pass?
9 I can't give you that answer, Governor.
10 But the answer that I can give you, that I
11 think is an important answer is that I believe
12 these students will experience one year of
13 learning for one year of school.
14 I think they will show that kind of
15 achievement. They showed that kind of
16 achievement last year. And to me, that should
17 be somewhat of a bottom line with what I
18 expect. If we get over one year of
19 achievement, I'm proud of those schools and I'm
20 proud of those teachers for having done that.
21 Moving to the --
22 TREASURER NELSON: On that point --
23 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
24 TREASURER NELSON: -- that, I think,
25 underscores a very important policy question,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 97
October 26, 1999
1 what you just said. And that is the -- what
2 you said, as I understood it, is that measured
3 on a per child basis, that you're going to get
4 an advancement of one year's work for one
5 year's of effort.
6 If you measured progress that way, on a per
7 child basis, as opposed to a -- comparing that
8 school to all the other schools, which is
9 measured on a bell curve where some fail and
10 where some exceed, is there a policy question
11 that begs to be asked here?
12 MR. MAY: I don't know if I want to get
13 into that or not, Mr. Nelson.
14 I can tell you that I believe there --
15 there need to be some variances allowed for
16 with the FCAT grading system. I don't know
17 that this is the place. If you'd like me to
18 answer it, I certainly would. Because I do
19 believe that there are variances that we need
20 to examine, and such things as free and reduced
21 lunches, such things as school size.
22 In fact, if I have a high number of ESE
23 gifted students in my population, I think the
24 bell ought to even be raised for those kinds of
25 items.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 98
October 26, 1999
1 So -- so I believe if I was the CEO of a
2 major organization and I was going to take a
3 look at the profit margins for each one of
4 those organizations, I would take into account
5 that not every school and every child is
6 exactly the same, that there are going to be
7 variances.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I --
9 MR. MAY: And I can't expect sales to be
10 the same in each of them.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Superintendent, this is an
12 appropriate conversation, because in December
13 we're going to have -- based on the passage of
14 the A+ law, we will factor in a year's worth of
15 knowledge as -- in a year's time as a -- as
16 a -- as a -- under consideration at least.
17 MR. MAY: Good.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: And the law --
19 MR. MAY: Good.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- which hasn't been
21 adequately reported, allows for this.
22 It also allows for a focus on how schools
23 do with the bottom 25 percentile. To get back
24 to your correct concern that certain children
25 learn -- come prepared to school and -- and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 99
October 26, 1999
1 they come prepared to school in different ways.
2 The law factors that in. And so as
3 the Board of Education, the rulemaking process
4 is underway, your input here, as well as in any
5 other possible way that you'd like to, would be
6 invaluable for us to craft meaningful changes
7 as the law requires us to do to change the --
8 the system that was created prior to us
9 arriving.
10 And I -- I want to bring you back to
11 December of last year when the law -- when
12 the -- when these rules were -- about grading
13 schools was passed. I wasn't here.
14 Commissioner Gallagher I guess was -- you
15 were -- you weren't here. Everybody else may
16 have been here -- or, no, Secretary Harris
17 wasn't here.
18 But it passed unanimously that we said as a
19 state that there are certain assessments that
20 we will undertake to measure real world
21 standards. And we have high expectations of
22 all of our kids, no matter what level of income
23 or family structure or color of their skin. We
24 will not abandon that.
25 No state in the country is moving away from
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 100
October 26, 1999
1 high expectations of their kids. The standards
2 movement is nationwide, Democrats and
3 Republicans alike, believe in it passionately.
4 And I believe that the Board of Education last
5 year was correct in setting those standards up.
6 Now we have the chance, because we've moved
7 to a grading system testing grades three
8 through ten where we can begin to assess
9 individual student performance on a
10 year-to-year basis to take into consideration
11 your concerns. And I think it's well worth the
12 effort to do so.
13 MR. MAY: Well, and -- and if I could
14 expand on that point just a tiny bit, Governor,
15 and then --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
17 MR. MAY: -- I promise I'll get back to
18 this.
19 When we go to the Stanford 9, which is the
20 test that you're speaking of now, that is a
21 test that is a normative based test. And
22 whenever you do normative testing, we're going
23 to have this huge bell curve with probably
24 60 percent, 70 percent of our students
25 somewhere right there inside that bell.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 101
October 26, 1999
1 And -- and -- but we're always going to
2 have a 25th percentile one way or the other.
3 And -- and if we understand that if I tested
4 the people in this Cabinet who are the
5 brightest people in the state of Florida, if
6 I --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now, wait a second.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Here here.
9 MR. MAY: Well, okay. Almost the --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a wide bell --
11 MR. MAY: -- brightest people --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- but I can --
13 MR. MAY: The brightest people on the dais.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All we did is get
16 more votes than the other guys running against
17 us.
18 MR. MAY: Yeah. All right.
19 But -- but the point I make is this: When
20 you do normative testing, there will always be
21 percentiles, and we need to understand that.
22 Someone's going to be there.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
24 MR. MAY: If we did it with -- as
25 intelligent as everyone is --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 102
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's just --
2 MR. MAY: -- in this room --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- our objective, which
4 is --
5 MR. MAY: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- mutual, is to move that
7 bell curve forward towards higher --
8 MR. MAY: The mean.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- student achievement.
10 MR. MAY: Yes, sir. We want the mean to be
11 able to move up.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
13 MR. MAY: But I don't care how far that
14 mean moves up on a raw score, that bell curve
15 is going to remain the same. And that's
16 important to understand that.
17 Okay.
18 Moving along to the next section.
19 You can see that -- that we have AIP plans
20 for any student below the 35th and -- below
21 percentile in mathematic (sic).
22 I want you to see that -- on the next
23 slide, you'll see that we go to a minimum of
24 60-minute time blocks for math, and a variety
25 of different strategies, which include again
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 103
October 26, 1999
1 the mentoring programs by lots of different
2 people.
3 Okay?
4 Across the curriculum, you will see that
5 there are other strategies that we are using.
6 And the AIMS strategies, which is Activities in
7 Grad-- Integrating Math and Science is used at
8 all grade levels.
9 We want to --
10 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
11 MR. MAY: -- explore the extended time.
12 And even though I've covered this once, I just
13 wanted you to see that we're also doing that
14 for math, and the writing, too, you'll see in
15 just a minute.
16 The Saturday program, I see we have that.
17 Moving to the next slide.
18 You'll see that we have the Sunshine Math
19 Superstar Training, the Lightspan, many
20 different other ideas that we believe are going
21 to help to enhance those math scores.
22 And then we go to the Florida Writes
23 portion. The Florida Writes portion, you'll
24 see that we've conducted diagnostic assessments
25 of our first through fifth grade students'
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 104
October 26, 1999
1 writing performance.
2 And we -- we put together a writing
3 program -- you may or may not know this, that
4 JoAnn Cawley is the person who does the scoring
5 for the State of Florida. She's a former
6 Escambia County principal.
7 She assisted us in putting together a
8 Florida Writes Program that helps us to assess
9 that program very closely to what the
10 Florida Writes itself is. And you see that
11 there.
12 Again AIPs for each of those students that
13 are scoring below Level 2.
14 Then you'll see on the next one, a variety
15 of techniques that we're using to increase that
16 proficiency in writing.
17 I think one of the things that I would
18 share with you about writing that -- that we've
19 just made a commitment to is that we now write
20 every day in every class. And I think
21 that's -- that's a huge commitment to writing.
22 We write every day in every class.
23 And that's one of the reasons that we're --
24 we're hoping that that will show proof that we
25 are making that progress.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 105
October 26, 1999
1 Some more of those strategies.
2 Again, you will see that we're involving
3 some other agencies, the PACEE Program, the
4 DOE, the -- the rubric itself that we use,
5 observations at high scoring schools. We've
6 actually had some of the high scoring writing
7 schools come in and do presentations to the
8 faculty on methodologies that they use. So a
9 variety of those things.
10 Okay. Here we talk about the options. And
11 I'm going to go through this quickly, because I
12 know this Cabinet's well aware of all of these
13 options.
14 You'll see that a letter was sent to notify
15 parents. Then, again, we sent another two
16 letters to let them know their rights to avail
17 themselves of opportunity scholarships.
18 Then again, we notified the parents of
19 transportation; kinds of student services;
20 State testing requirements; all of those things
21 that would be associated, even though that they
22 were leaving our public school system.
23 We identified budget issues for the
24 information campaign. And you'll see this is
25 what it basically costs to mail out this
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 106
October 26, 1999
1 information.
2 The next slide that -- that I just
3 wanted -- and this is an information piece. We
4 are -- we are looking at implementing a
5 controlled choice plan for our entire county in
6 the school year 2001 and 2002.
7 We have already put together a committee of
8 School Advisory Committee Chairman's
9 appointees. We have our School Attendance Zone
10 Committee, which is a Board committee.
11 Within the next two weeks, we will be
12 sitting down with the School Board itself doing
13 what we call a quality function deployment to
14 find out what their values are for offering
15 controlled choice, and what things --
16 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
17 MR. MAY: -- they feel are important to
18 their constituents.
19 And from that, we will be creating a matrix
20 which will help us to move forward with this
21 controlled choice plan. But I figured that --
22 that you would have an interest in that.
23 Any questions about that before I go on?
24 Okay. The -- the next slide is one about
25 dreams. And it says something about what we've
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 107
October 26, 1999
1 been speaking this morning.
2 And it really says: Taxpayers are -- they
3 have grown to expect accountability. And that
4 really does mean we understand rolling out the
5 numbers.
6 What percentage of our kids go to college,
7 what's our average ACT and SAT college entrance
8 test scores, how did we perform on the
9 Stanford 9 or the FCAT test, how do we compare
10 with other counties and schools, and what's our
11 attendance rate.
12 And -- and you'll see that -- that I put
13 something else up there. But I want to give
14 you some points just -- just to think about.
15 Escambia County is the 89th poorest
16 district in the United States. We have nearly
17 60 percent of our kids on free and reduced
18 lunch, and our mobility rate is in excess of
19 60 percent.
20 If you took a look at the A+ criteria,
21 which I think is a fair assimilation, and you
22 gave our county a score for the entire county,
23 we would have scored a C at the elementary
24 level, we would have scored a C at the middle
25 school level, and we would have scored a C at
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 108
October 26, 1999
1 the high school level.
2 Our SAT scores were 60 points above the
3 State average, and 42 points above the national
4 average. Every year we go to the history fair,
5 and last year, which is not atypical of our
6 county, we won 7 out of the 14 first place
7 awards in the State History Contest.
8 Our students received 1.5 million dollars
9 just last year in the Bright Futures
10 Scholarship Program, while at the same time,
11 they earned over 12 million dollars in
12 additional scholarships.
13 I say all of this to you to lead into what
14 I believe are dreams. We have an IB program,
15 which is ranked among one of the top five IB
16 programs, not in the state, not in the country,
17 but in the entire world.
18 We have students who are fulfilling their
19 dreams. And I think that when you contribute
20 to a picture of a county, that one of the
21 things that you can't leave out -- and I don't
22 know if there'll ever be a test that tests
23 this -- is where is that section that reports
24 the number of dreams that were fulfilled. And
25 I think that's important.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 109
October 26, 1999
1 That's what I would leave you with, in --
2 in my presentation. How can we talk about
3 dreams that were met, how can we talk about
4 good citizens that were made, and where do we
5 measure that?
6 I believe that's important. I believe in
7 student achievement. I think all kids can
8 learn. And I thank you for allowing me to make
9 this presentation this morning.
10 I would like to hand you out these
11 newspaper articles. And certainly, I would
12 also like to answer any questions that you
13 might have at this time.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
15 Thank you, Mr. Superintendent. It's good
16 seeing you again.
17 MR. MAY: Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I guess we'll see you back
19 here one more time in the -- are you -- aren't
20 you all coming back in the spring, I guess? Is
21 that --
22 MR. MAY: We will wait for your directions,
23 Governor. And when you direct us, we will be
24 back.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 110
October 26, 1999
1 MR. PIERSON: Item 4, we'll recommend
2 deferral.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move deferral.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to defer.
6 Second.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is an amendment to
9 Commissioner's Rule 6-2.001, Educational
10 Facilities, which is presented for information.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we have
16 some people that want to --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: What?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We don't?
19 MR. PIERSON: We don't.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We don't have any
21 people that want to talk.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
24 MR. PIERSON: Item 6, we recommend deferral
25 until November 9th.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 111
October 26, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move defer.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to defer.
4 Second.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. PIERSON: Item 7, appointments and
7 reappointments to the Education Standards
8 Commission: Trent Daniel, Terry Curry,
9 Carey Stidham, Sandra Robinson,
10 Marguerite Atkins, Martha Pepper,
11 Rosa Harvey Pratt --
12 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
13 MR. PIERSON: -- Rebecca McBride, and
14 John Long.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. PIERSON: On Item 5, was for
21 information only, there shouldn't have been a
22 vote.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Doesn't matter.
24 It won't hurt it having a vote.
25 MR. PIERSON: It--
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 112
October 26, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No extra charge.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 8, appointments and
3 reappointments to Education Practices
4 Commission: Thomas James, Steven Brodie,
5 Ana Rasco, Margaret Wolf, Clarissa Coddington,
6 Renier de la Portilla, and Jayne Palmer.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion --
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 Thank you.
14 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
15 concluded.)
16 *
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 113
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Trustee of the Internal
2 Improvement Trust Fund.
3 Is there a motion on the minutes?
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved --
8 Is there a second?
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and -- moved and
11 seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I've been
14 here 12 years, Governor. That's the first
15 time --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's the first time it's
17 happened to me.
18 Item 2.
19 MR. STRUHS: Good morning.
20 Substitute Item Number 2, an option
21 agreement to acquire nine hundred and
22 seventy-six-and-a-half acres adjoining the
23 Tenoroc Fish Management Area to be acquired by
24 the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation
25 Commission.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 114
October 26, 1999
1 And we do have Ms. Judy Hancock from the
2 Sierra Club who asked to speak for just a
3 minute to this subject.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
5 Good afternoon -- good morning.
6 MS. HANCOCK: Good morning.
7 Good morning. My name is Judy Hancock --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Judy, can you move the mic
9 down a little bit?
10 MS. HANCOCK: Okay.
11 I'm here representing the Florida Chapter
12 of the Sierra Club, and I've been asked to read
13 a brief letter from the Sierra Club Polk Group.
14 Dear Trustees, the enhancement of the upper
15 Peace River Basin in Bone Valley is an
16 important issue for the 500 plus members of the
17 Polk Group of the Sierra Club.
18 We request your thorough consideration of,
19 and support for, the purchase of the 970 acre
20 Bridgewater property, which is located in the
21 upper Peace River Basin.
22 The resources of this Polk County site in
23 east Lakeland would be an outstanding addition
24 to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation
25 Commission's Tenoroc facility.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 115
October 26, 1999
1 We are fully aware that the Bridgewater
2 property has been mined and reclaimed, but have
3 no qualms about enthusiastically supporting its
4 acquisition for both ecological and
5 recreational reasons.
6 This proposed addition would provide the
7 citizens of our rapidly urbanizing area an
8 esthetically pleasing, open space, and
9 nature-based recreation opportunities,
10 including fishing on 12 lakes, hiking,
11 canoeing, picnicking, and wildlife viewing.
12 There is also an excellent opportunity for
13 the incorporation and management of some good
14 quality scrub parcels that were conserved under
15 the Bridgewater development of regional impact.
16 The merging of these properties with
17 Tenoroc will create an impressive, diverse
18 habitat that is just minutes away from the
19 200,000 residents of the Lakeland area.
20 The acquisition and management of this
21 tract would exemplify the Florida Forever goals
22 of ecosystem restoration, preservation,
23 management, and recreation.
24 It would be a legacy that the people of
25 this area will treasure for generations to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 116
October 26, 1999
1 come.
2 And this letter is co-signed by
3 Genny Jacobs, the Group Chair; and Marian Ryan,
4 the Conservation Chair.
5 And I would add that these two ladies,
6 along with many others in that area, have been
7 working for years and years to protect the
8 Peace River Basin and the Bone Valley area.
9 Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I so move, if
12 we need a motion.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's been moved and
15 seconded.
16 Any discussion?
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 3 is consideration
19 of the annual land management review team
20 findings.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: When it says acceptance,
24 doesn't mean we have to -- we have to move it,
25 or just -- we move to accept?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 117
October 26, 1999
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Accept the report.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
3 MR. STRUHS: Accept the report.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
5 approved.
6 MR. STRUHS: The Second Substitute Item
7 Number 4, regarding the U.S. Department of
8 Veterans' Affairs, and the expansion of the
9 Florida National Cemetery in Bushnell, into the
10 Withlacoochee State Forest.
11 We're seeking approval to do three things,
12 and -- and the sequence of them is important.
13 First, to determine that 137.81 acre parcel
14 of State-owned lands in Sumter County no longer
15 needs to be preserved for conservation
16 purposes; second, a determination that that
17 acreage is surplus to the State's needs; and
18 third, that the conveyance of these 137.81 acre
19 parcels to the Federal government can occur.
20 And I'd like to make just several notes
21 regarding this, please, to inform the
22 discussion.
23 You may very well have before you the
24 number a hundred and seventy -- 179.81 acres.
25 It has been reduced by 42 acres to the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 118
October 26, 1999
1 137.81 number.
2 That is in full agreement with the
3 Department of Veterans' Affairs, and the State
4 of Florida. There is an environmentally
5 sensitive sandhill community in this parcel.
6 And as part of the efforts to make this work
7 for all the parties, the Veterans'
8 Administration agreed that that was something
9 that they could do without. So that is why the
10 number is -- is reduced.
11 Secondly, I'd also just like to note for
12 the record that the State of Florida did offer
13 the land first to Sumter County, as required
14 under the State rules, and that Sumter County
15 declined any interest in the par-- in the
16 parcel.
17 Thirdly, in terms of the price that we're
18 selling the land to the Federal government,
19 that is all controlled again by -- by State
20 rules. And we are meeting that legally
21 required formula to determine the sale price to
22 another government agency. So we're -- we're
23 free and clear there.
24 Fourth, this has gone through the
25 prescribed LAMAC review process. So we've
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 119
October 26, 1999
1 touched that base.
2 The LAMAC approved this item with three
3 conditions: One was the preservation of that
4 sandhill community that I mentioned earlier.
5 In fact, we've done more than just agreeing to
6 preserve it. They've actually carved it out of
7 the original request.
8 Secondly, the condition was that the VA
9 would support us in our efforts to get the
10 U.S. Forest Service to convey mineral rights to
11 the State of Florida in the Withlacoochee State
12 Forest. And they have already met that
13 expectation, and we're making good progress on
14 that.
15 And thirdly, the Veterans' -- Veterans'
16 Administration agreed to not make any future
17 requests to expand the cemetery into the
18 Withlacoochee State Forest.
19 And my fifth and final point is that you
20 should have all been provided a draft copy of
21 the quitclaim deed. You will notice in that
22 deed that the conveyance of this property is
23 conditioned, and it is conditioned in a number
24 of ways:
25 The first being that the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 120
October 26, 1999
1 Veterans' Administration would not seek any
2 additional State-owned land in the future;
3 secondly, that any revenue generated from the
4 removal of the timber from that land would stay
5 with our Division of Forestry; thirdly, that
6 the cemetery would be designed in such a way as
7 to preserve and allow public access to the
8 existing horse trail, equestrian trail that's
9 there; fourth, that in the event that the
10 grantee should choose to sell or convey any of
11 the lands, that they would first offer it back
12 to the State at the same price to which we --
13 that we sold it to them; and finally, the
14 fifth item, is a reverter clause saying that
15 if any of these conditions aren't met, the land
16 would revert back.
17 I -- the reason I go through these items,
18 gentlemen, and -- and Madam, is simply to point
19 out that these conditions were all fully agreed
20 to by all of the parties involved in these
21 negotiations.
22 As is often the case though, in the last
23 24 hours, the lawyers got involved. In
24 particular --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me clarify one
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 121
October 26, 1999
1 thing before you finish that.
2 You said that there would be no further
3 conveyance to the Federal government for any
4 uses of a cemetery. You mean for this
5 expansion on this cemetery. And I think you
6 need to clarify --
7 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that.
9 MR. STRUHS: That's correct.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Because that's not
11 what you said. You said no --
12 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
13 MR. STRUHS: That's correct.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Thank you.
15 MR. STRUHS: For this parcel and this
16 cemetery.
17 The Department -- U.S. Department of
18 Justice has indicated that they're not
19 comfortable with the Veterans' Administration's
20 commitment to not seek future expansion in
21 Withlacoochee, having that tied to the reverter
22 clause.
23 So the decision you have before you,
24 in part, as to whether or not you want to
25 simply stay the course that we're on with this
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 122
October 26, 1999
1 draft quitclaim deed, or amend it.
2 And a possible amendment that might resolve
3 this issue, and allow this to go forward, is to
4 strike that first item, and simply add it as
5 language at the end of the document on page 2
6 with language that would read:
7 Furthermore, the grantee agrees not to
8 request any additional State-owned lands for
9 the expansion of the Florida National Cemetery
10 in Bushnell, Florida.
11 That accomplishes what the intention is,
12 which is to memorialize this commitment. But
13 it doesn't go so far as to actually tie it to
14 the reverter clause in -- in this -- in this
15 deed.
16 I'd be happy to attempt to answer any
17 questions that you may have. But I would also
18 point out that there are numerous speakers who
19 would like to speak to this today. And I would
20 look forward to introducing them to you.
21 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: Go ahead and call the
23 speakers.
24 Are there any questions?
25 MR. STRUHS: Shall we call the speakers?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 123
October 26, 1999
1 I'd like to begin, just in -- in terms of
2 protocol, introducing my colleague in State
3 government, the Executive Director of the
4 Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs,
5 Robin Higgins. And she, in turn, will
6 introduce Mr. Bob Holbrook, who's here from the
7 VA Administration out of Washington, D.C.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Colonel, how you doing?
9 MS. HIGGINS: I'm doing well, sir.
10 In 1988 when the Florida National Cemetery
11 opened its doors, it was the ninth largest
12 national cemetery in terms of acreage.
13 At that time, no one ever foresaw that it
14 would become the third busiest national
15 cemetery system in the country; and, in fact,
16 the number one fastest growing national
17 cemetery in the country.
18 Several years ago, not anticipating
19 building another --
20 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
21 MS. HIGGINS: -- national cemetery in
22 Florida in the foreseeable future, and seeing
23 the accelerated use of the cemetery, the VA
24 asked Florida for 180 acres, or thereabouts, to
25 extend the cemetery.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 124
October 26, 1999
1 Today, after seven years of -- of work, we
2 finally have reached this spot today, and the
3 final set piece is conservation. The discourse
4 has become extremely divisive, and emotions are
5 running very deep on -- on all sides.
6 But I think we're talking about the same
7 thing here. Webster defines conservation as a
8 careful preservation and protection of
9 something, especially planned management of
10 natural -- of a natural resource to prevent
11 exploitation and destruction.
12 It's my belief that the very best possible
13 use of this land is to turn it over to the
14 careful guardianship of the national cemetery,
15 to conserve both the natural beauty, and the
16 core values on which the -- this country was
17 built.
18 These are not mutually exclusive. I harken
19 back to the father of the country -- of this
20 country, George Washington, who said that the
21 willingness with which our young people are
22 likely to serve in any war, no matter how
23 justified, shall be directly proportional as to
24 how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars
25 were treated and appreciated by their nation.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 125
October 26, 1999
1 Indeed, the treatment that we can bestow on
2 our veterans by a positive vote today is a vote
3 for conservation of the core values of this
4 country, the natural resource that these men
5 and women here today, preservation of honor, of
6 pride, and of the commitment on which this
7 country was built.
8 This is not a precedent setting break of
9 faith with environmentalism. It is, as Webster
10 says, careful preservation and protection.
11 One of the many arguments that I think
12 we've all heard from opponents of the transfer
13 is that it's Washington that's let the veterans
14 down, not those who would rather save this
15 precious land for the longleaf pines and the
16 gopher tortoises and the horse trails.
17 Washington should have more national
18 cemetery space for Florida's 1.7 million
19 veterans, more land in south Florida, in north
20 Florida, in all regions of the state so that
21 the remains of veterans distanced from the
22 third busiest cemetery in the nation wouldn't
23 have to arrive at Bushnell totally
24 unaccompanied by family because loved ones just
25 can't afford to make the trip to see our heroes
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 126
October 26, 1999
1 buried.
2 But Washington didn't, they don't, and
3 maybe they won't. And shame on them. But
4 shame on us if we have it in our power to open
5 our arms to United States veterans who choose
6 to live out their remaining years in our state,
7 if we have it in our power and we turn them
8 down, and turn them away.
9 Shame on us if we say to these heroes, not
10 here, here we have tortoises, trees, and
11 horse trails, go somewhere else.
12 We have looked at the dismal remains of a
13 highway project that is so-called, or
14 Alternative B. It is simply not the best site
15 for expansion of the cemetery. It would not
16 allow continuation of the wonderful
17 environmentally sensitive design of the
18 cemetery that now exists.
19 The VA originally chose this primary site
20 for obvious reasons of continuity, ease of
21 access, and minimization of expansion costs.
22 Those basic reasons still remain very
23 valid. The original VA requested site is
24 clearly the best site for Florida's veterans.
25 A reward to the cemetery for being good
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 127
October 26, 1999
1 stewards of the land, and to the veterans for
2 their sacrifices should not be leftovers.
3 I am in a -- a responsible American. I
4 served 20 years in the United States
5 Marine Corps, believing that what I did helped
6 others to live in a safe, secure America.
7 My Marine husband was killed on active
8 duty, believing that his sacrifice would make a
9 difference. He is buried in a national
10 cemetery. And when my time comes, I will join
11 him on that hallowed ground.
12 I take my job as a senior State government
13 executive very, very seriously. It is crucial
14 that we be skillful managers of our assets, and
15 conscientious stewards of public lands.
16 I don't want to give away 1 inch of our
17 pristine, valuable State land if we don't
18 absolutely have to. But this is one of those
19 occasions. We absolutely have to.
20 We have been waiting for 12 years for
21 Washington to build our veterans another
22 cemetery in south Florida. But it hasn't
23 happened. Year after year, we see the VA's
24 budget dwindle; and year after year, there is
25 no cemetery for south Florida.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 128
October 26, 1999
1 Governor Bush and I have made it a national
2 priority of our administration to make
3 Washington commit to one. With the signing of
4 the VA HUD appropriations bill last week, we
5 are closer today than ever before in having a
6 national cemetery in south Florida. But we are
7 not there. And if Washington commits today to
8 build one, it won't happen for another
9 seven years.
10 However, we have the population in Florida
11 that even if and when a national cemetery is
12 built in south Florida, that both Bushnell and
13 south Florida will remain vibrant for many
14 years to come.
15 A national cemetery in south Florida is a
16 necessity, and is an adjunct to, not a
17 replacement for, a national cemetery in
18 Bushnell, which is 250 miles away.
19 We have 1.7 million veterans in this state,
20 the second largest veterans population in the
21 entire country. We have over -- we have over
22 600,000 World War II veterans alone, and
23 300,000 Korean war veterans, the number one
24 population in the entire country of older
25 veterans.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 129
October 26, 1999
1 And while nationally, we're losing
2 1,000 World War II veterans a day, the
3 population in Florida is expected to remain the
4 same for the immediate future. One hundred
5 veterans a day from all over the country are
6 moving here, and choosing to live out their
7 final days in Florida.
8 Will you be the ones to tell them to say,
9 yes, come here, we offer warm climate, pristine
10 beaches, State parks and forests, we're
11 improving our schools, and deterring crime.
12 But don't expect to be buried here, because our
13 national cemetery will be closed by the time
14 you die.
15 The VA has committed to us that they will
16 protect the small percentage of the 180 acre
17 tract that is home to the -- to the
18 sandhill community. In fact, that portion of
19 which is now going to be actually withheld from
20 transfer.
21 Land use will consist of trees and trails,
22 of perfectly aligned marble headstones and
23 manicured lawns, of quiet and solemn
24 ceremonies, and of visits of school children to
25 learn about the men and women who gave their
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 130
October 26, 1999
1 lives that they should live free.
2 Winston Churchill once said: A nation that
3 does not honor its heroes will soon have no
4 heroes to honor. That's the kind of
5 conservation that I'm talking about.
6 The proposal that you have here today is
7 the result of a lot of hard work, even as of
8 9:00 o'clock this morning, on the part of a lot
9 of people.
10 And I'd like to personally thank each of
11 your staff and your Aides; a lot of hardworking
12 folks from DEP; veterans and their supporters
13 from all over the state; and, yes, even
14 Mr. Fuller and Mr. Lee and others from the
15 environmental groups.
16 The rhetoric was often ratcheted up very
17 high and the emotions were very high, but I
18 think we all never lost sight of the goal, to
19 do what is right for the people of Florida.
20 So I urge you to send a message of strong
21 support this morning to Florida's veterans, one
22 which also recognizes the need to preserve the
23 heritage and the history and, indeed, the land.
24 Vote in favor of the transfer before you here
25 today.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 131
October 26, 1999
1 I'd like to introduce and turn the podium
2 over to Bob Holbrook, who is here from
3 Washington, representing the National Cemetery
4 System Administration to speak a little bit
5 about the conservation of the land; about
6 the -- the transfer; and then, of course, if
7 you have any questions, we'll -- we'll be --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Robin.
9 MS. HIGGINS: Yes, Governor.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. Holbrook.
11 MR. HOLBROOK: Governor Bush, members of
12 the Cabinet, I'm Bob Holbrook. I represent the
13 Department of Veterans' Affairs, National
14 Cemetery Administration.
15 I'm also proud to come here this morning
16 representing our nation's veterans, and their
17 commitment to this state and to this nation.
18 If I could digress just for a moment,
19 sitting this morning through the Cabinet
20 hearing, I -- I formed several good opinions,
21 I think.
22 One, it seems as though this state has very
23 strong fiscal management, concern, and
24 accountability.
25 It seems as if investment in Florida State
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 132
October 26, 1999
1 bonds would be a good thing to do when I get
2 back home.
3 And third, I guess, having heard the
4 educational testimony, I think I'd be proud to
5 have my children attend schools in the state of
6 Florida.
7 So my compliments to the program, to the
8 Cabinet, and to the progress being made by the
9 state. Just as a byline, by the way.
10 I'd like to talk a little bit about the
11 past, and also about the present, and about the
12 future.
13 I'd like to first thank the
14 State of Florida for the generosity already
15 shown to our nation's veterans through the
16 donation of 400 acres of State land that led to
17 the creation of the Florida National Cemetery
18 at Bushnell. This cemetery was opened in 1988,
19 and as Mrs. Higgins said, has grown to be the
20 third busiest in our entire nation.
21 This year they would supplant over
22 5,000 interments.
23 In addition to the 1.7 million veterans who
24 reside in Florida, their spouses are also
25 eligible for interment, and any dependent
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 133
October 26, 1999
1 children that they may have.
2 So a very large percentage of the State's
3 population would receive a service by this
4 cemetery, and any other national cemetery
5 within their proximity.
6 The Bushnell cemetery consists of 400
7 acres. I'd like to stress, however, that only
8 230 of these acres have been, or will be, used
9 for actual disturbed purposes, for either
10 interment, for roadways, for administration
11 buildings, or other features on the cemetery
12 grounds. A hundred and seventy acres is left
13 undisturbed.
14 We develop our cemeteries, both here and
15 throughout the nation, in strict compliance
16 with environmental laws, both the national and
17 at the state level. Wetlands are preserved,
18 endangered species are protected, any impact on
19 the environment is mitigated, and we have
20 certainly sandhills in the current area of the
21 cemetery that have been preserved and
22 protected.
23 We develop our cemeteries carefully,
24 because not only do we bury our nation's
25 veterans, but we're committed and required by
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 134
October 26, 1999
1 law to maintain our cemeteries as national
2 shrines. We take great pride in this.
3 The Florida National Cemetery I think is
4 one of the most beautiful in our system, having
5 won awards in several years for both their
6 beauty, their efficiency of management, and
7 their skill in operating it.
8 The Florida National Cemetery only several
9 years ago entered into a joint project with the
10 Florida State Department of Corrections where
11 we're using reused water, treated water from
12 the prison system to help with our irrigation,
13 to reduce the consumption of groundwater, to
14 use this as a win-win situation, both --
15 benefitting both the prison and our cemetery.
16 The point I wish to make is that we are
17 developing in compliance with environmental
18 protection. And I think other than leaving
19 a piece of land in its pristine condition, what
20 we do in the development and operation of a
21 national cemetery is considered conservation in
22 the truest sense of the word.
23 The preservation of our land and of the
24 natural resources --
25 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 135
October 26, 1999
1 MR. HOLBROOK: -- is of importance to us,
2 as well as it is to the environmental groups.
3 What are we proposing? We're proposing for
4 the transfer of additional State land to expand
5 this cemetery.
6 Many options have been considered. We have
7 looked at other pieces of land, and concluded
8 that the piece requested represents in many
9 ways the best interests, both of the State and
10 of the veterans.
11 It is proximate, it is an extension of the
12 cemetery, it can easily be incorporated, and
13 I think its harmony and commitment to our
14 nation's veterans will be preserved.
15 Additional alternatives that have been
16 looked at have many drawbacks to development.
17 They have -- one particular area has a large
18 borrow pit, or approximately 40 acres of
19 removed soil that was used to create part of
20 the interstate system.
21 This, and the number of wetlands, and also
22 being across a road would pose limitations to
23 an alternative site that has been proposed.
24 As has been mentioned, we need the land
25 because of the rapid growth of the cemetery.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 136
October 26, 1999
1 We expect to deplete the current number of
2 burials within approximately 10 to 15 years,
3 depending upon the rate of utilization that we
4 receive.
5 At that point, what would happen?
6 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
7 MR. HOLBROOK: If we had no additional
8 land, the cemetery would close and could
9 receive no further interment of our nation's
10 veterans.
11 We're looking ahead, we're planning in the
12 long-term, we're seeking to expand this area,
13 and 137, '39 acres would provide anywhere from
14 65,000 to 100,000 grave sites, depending upon
15 the way it is laid out and developed.
16 We feel this would be a significant
17 extension of the useful life of this cemetery,
18 and is a very strong move as our commitment and
19 your commitment to our state and our nation's
20 veterans.
21 The question has been asked of us, well,
22 why didn't you ask for more land at the
23 beginning? Part of our theory of development,
24 especially in the 1980s was, we didn't see the
25 massive utilization of this cemetery that has
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 137
October 26, 1999
1 occurred.
2 From 1988 with zero interments, to today,
3 the third busiest in our nation, has been an
4 unprecedented growth. This represents one of
5 the most rapid growths in any cemetery
6 throughout our system --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Not -- excuse me. I don't
8 want to cut you off. I'm here -- can you see
9 me?
10 Right here.
11 MR. HOLBROOK: Okay. Thank you.
12 There?
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: No.
14 MR. HOLBROOK: I'm sorry.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right here.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor. The
17 Governor.
18 MR. HOLBROOK: Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just -- I was just making
20 the point for you --
21 Yeah. Put those on, that'll be better.
22 MR. HOLBROOK: There you are.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: The -- the reason why we
24 are frustrated with Washington -- we have a
25 couple of reasons. But one of them is this
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 138
October 26, 1999
1 very fact, a by-product of having a lot of
2 people -- increased demand that you didn't
3 estimate is also that we don't get enough
4 Federal money for the veterans that are here.
5 So -- I'm not going to prejudge what
6 happens on this particular decision. But if
7 there was one thing that you could go back to
8 Washington with would be a realization that our
9 veterans haven't been getting their fair share
10 of -- of veteran benefits because we've had an
11 increase in population that has created this
12 over-use, if you will, of the cemetery, or
13 over-- over estim-- you know, underestimation
14 of how many people are using the cemetery.
15 MR. HOLBROOK: Yes, sir.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thanks.
17 MR. HOLBROOK: I hear your message.
18 We feel the same way. I can't speak for my
19 counterparts in VA, certainly for medical --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know.
21 MR. HOLBROOK: -- care, for benefit
22 programs --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: You could lobby on our
24 behalf though.
25 MR. HOLBROOK: I certainly will.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 139
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
2 MR. HOLBROOK: I certainly will.
3 As we look at the options also, one option
4 that was mentioned, could the State possibly
5 retain title to this land and lease it to the
6 Federal government. Regrettably, no, sir, that
7 would not be an option that was looked at. We
8 cannot bury our nation's veterans on lands that
9 we do not hold title to as a Federal
10 government.
11 So I just wish to stress these things,
12 because there were options considered.
13 I wish also to extend my compliments to the
14 environmental groups that we've worked with,
15 Mr. John Blanchard, Manley Fuller, the --
16 Mrs. Hancock, and also Charles Lee. We've
17 talked with each of those, and involved them in
18 the process.
19 They've offered very constructive and
20 positive comments regarding alternatives,
21 regarding use of the cemetery. They have
22 visited the site, they have looked at what we
23 have done with the current cemetery, they've
24 looked at what we proposed doing with the new
25 land.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 140
October 26, 1999
1 And I feel that we have made great inroads
2 with their involvement in looking at options
3 and being able to move toward hopefully an
4 accommodation of everyone's concerns.
5 Finally, I'd like to conclude by stating
6 that the number of veterans in this state, the
7 World War II veterans, over 600,000 of them,
8 over half a century ago, were away from this
9 area, away from this nation, defending their
10 nation, far away places.
11 Over 45 years ago, our Korean veterans were
12 in the cold, icy areas of the north of Korea
13 and the south of Korea.
14 Over 25 years ago, our Vietnam veterans
15 were in the jungles of Asia.
16 And more recently, in the Persian Gulf and
17 in Kosovo and in parts of Europe, we've seen
18 the commitment of our troops.
19 Regrettably, we live in a hostile world.
20 We have to maintain a standing military force.
21 Our projection is that this nation always will.
22 The best deterrent to tyranny is continual
23 vigilance and strength. I think this will
24 continue.
25 I regret to say that in my judgment, we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 141
October 26, 1999
1 have not had a period of a decade in this
2 nation's history that our men and women were
3 not committed somewhere on the earth's surface,
4 involved in hostile combat, or in harm's way.
5 As I looked out this morning and saw these
6 fine young men of the Babe Ruth League, I know
7 that some of those men will grow up and serve
8 in this nation's military. I know that they
9 will wear the uniform of our service, that they
10 will serve in someplace away from their home.
11 They may be involved in combat, they may lead
12 others into combat.
13 As I look in our audience today, I see the
14 hats of our service organization, the men and
15 women who have worn these uniforms before, and
16 proudly hung them up, and taken on other roles
17 as veterans' advocates.
18 As I see this, I know it's a commitment we
19 as a nation make, it's a promise that we need
20 to keep.
21 We value many things in our society: We
22 value the environment, we attempt to develop
23 our cemeteries in harmony with this
24 environment, to protect them, and make them
25 beautiful places.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 142
October 26, 1999
1 I know that each of these men and women who
2 come before you today, when they served long
3 and far away places many years ago, there were
4 two things that kept them going. They could
5 picture their family, their friends, people to
6 come back to.
7 They could also picture their home, the
8 tranquil areas, the beaches, the areas of -- of
9 forest, and the other areas that they grew up
10 and loved.
11 What we attempt to do in our cemeteries is
12 to create this, this tranquil environment, the
13 spirit of national shrine as a final resting
14 place to these men and women as they lay down
15 with their comrades.
16 It is with this request that we
17 respectfully seek the transfer of land to
18 expand this cemetery. We give you our
19 commitment this cemetery will be developed in
20 harmony with nature, with the environmental
21 protection, and with the beauty and sanctity
22 that we have evidenced in the cemetery already.
23 Thank you very much.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
25 MR. STRUHS: What I would recommend, if it
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 143
October 26, 1999
1 suits the Cabinet, is to identify four
2 representatives from Florida's environmental
3 organizations, and allocate to them a similar
4 period of time, and they can choose amongst
5 themselves how they -- how they want to use it:
6 Mr. Charles Lee, Mr. Manley Fuller,
7 Ms. Judy Hancock, and Ms. Mary Ann Ganginbock
8 (phonetic).
9 MR. LEE: Governor, members of the Board of
10 Trustees, Charles Lee representing the Florida
11 Audubon Society.
12 Good morning.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
14 MR. LEE: I've asked to have passed out to
15 you two items. Unfortunately one -- I only
16 have one of the photographs. But I have one of
17 the copies of the constitutional provision, and
18 the minutes of the LAMAC staff committee for
19 each of you.
20 This is a difficult issue, Governor, for
21 us, and -- and -- and I'd like to begin by
22 reiterating that I, too, believe that there's a
23 fundamental reason why we are here today, why
24 we have to be here today discussing this issue.
25 And that is the -- the unfortunate fact
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 144
October 26, 1999
1 that with regard to the provision for the needs
2 of veterans in the United States, and in
3 Florida in particular, Congress has not made
4 sufficient appropriations so that the
5 Veterans' Administration could identify and
6 acquire sites for veteran cemeteries in the
7 state of Florida.
8 And instead by -- by virtue of failing to
9 do that, they have set up a situation where the
10 Veterans' Administration must come to the
11 State of Florida, and ask the State to give up
12 pieces of its lands previously acquired for
13 conservation or preservation to that use.
14 The reason we're in that situation is
15 because Congress didn't put enough money on the
16 table so that the Department of
17 Veterans' Affairs could go and buy additional
18 cemetery sites that -- that would be -- be
19 useful for that purpose. And it -- and it's
20 regrettable that that has come to pass.
21 The picture that I have passed out is a
22 picture that I took of part of this site over
23 the weekend. And -- and I hope each of you
24 will get a chance to look at it, because
25 clearly the job that the Veterans' Affairs
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 145
October 26, 1999
1 Department has done with regard to the
2 development of the existing area of the
3 cemetery is exemplary.
4 And -- and I would tend to agree with the
5 gentleman who just spoke about there being a
6 viable integrated conservation use with regard
7 to the cemetery purposes, and the purposes of
8 protecting this land if it can continue to be
9 carried out in that way.
10 But, again, unfortunately, Governor, the --
11 the way we are here in front of you this
12 morning is a way where -- where unfortunately
13 we are looking at this issue in a fashion that
14 makes it very difficult to -- to deal with.
15 One of the things that happened in November
16 of 1998 was that the people of Florida enacted
17 an amendment to their Constitution. This is an
18 amendment that was not a factor of law at the
19 time the original 400 acres of this cemetery
20 was given to Veterans' Affairs in the -- in the
21 early 1980s.
22 The provisions of this constitutional
23 article are in front of you, and I would --
24 would ask that you take a look at the language
25 that I have highlighted. Because the legal
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 146
October 26, 1999
1 test for your making a vote by a two-thirds
2 majority to allow the disposal of this land is
3 only if you find -- if you determine that the
4 property is, quote, no longer needed for
5 conservation purposes, close quote.
6 And we would maintain that in spite of the
7 laudable purpose, that the Veterans'
8 Administration is seeking with regard to this
9 property, that you are in a very difficult
10 position to legally meet the criteria of this
11 test.
12 And I think the reason that you're in that
13 difficult position goes back to the factual
14 record that is existent in this case. And that
15 factual record, or at least a major part of it,
16 is the other sheet of paper that -- that I have
17 put in front of you, which is the consideration
18 of this item that was given by the staff of the
19 LAMAC committee, the Land Acquisition
20 Management Committee, that makes a
21 recommendation to you.
22 We generally believe that these decisions
23 need to be made on facts, not emotion. And we
24 think that the Constitution has now set up a
25 clear indication that there are facts at issue
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 147
October 26, 1999
1 that must be determined in order to allow a
2 disposition of these lands to occur.
3 And if you look at the factual position
4 that is taken by the technical staff of all of
5 the environmental agencies that came together
6 on the 19th of August, 1999, to decide what to
7 recommend on this issue, they unanimously
8 recommended against it.
9 And the specific terms of their
10 recommendation against it were that they found
11 that there was -- and I'll just read it:
12 Mr. Farr said the land was purchased for
13 conservation needs, and nothing tells him that
14 this land is -- no longer serves conservation
15 purposes. He cannot see any justification to
16 take this parcel out of the conservation realm
17 and convert it to another use.
18 That -- that I think is the narrow set of
19 facts, and -- that is presented to you, and
20 there are other facts in the record,
21 specifically the management plan of the
22 Division of Forestry for these properties,
23 which expressly says on its face that none of
24 this land is surplus, and that it's all needed.
25 Now, I recognize that the head of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 148
October 26, 1999
1 Division of Forestry has on his own endorsed
2 this agenda item, and said, yes, go forward
3 with it.
4 But the management plan the Legislature
5 told you -- or told your agencies to develop
6 says that none of this land is not needed for
7 conservation purposes.
8 The reason we bring this to your attention
9 is that we are now dealing with the first
10 impression case of the application of this new
11 constitutional amendment.
12 And the first impression case is very
13 important to us, not because the veterans'
14 cemetery is necessarily a bad idea for the
15 forest, but because of the findings you must
16 make, and the belief that we have that you
17 should only make these kind of findings if
18 there's a substantial factual record to back
19 them up.
20 And we're afraid that in this case, the
21 factual record to back them up is simply not
22 present to meet the constitutional test.
23 Now, that's the bad news. Let me try to
24 give you what I would describe as the good
25 news. And I think there's some -- I think
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 149
October 26, 1999
1 there's some good news available here.
2 The photograph that I -- I passed out among
3 you, in my mind, suggests that in order to
4 achieve a use of this property by the
5 Veterans' Affairs Department for this cemetery,
6 I -- I'm having trouble with the concept that
7 this land needs to be disposed of under the
8 terms of the constitutional provision that is
9 in front of you, in order to allow the
10 different use, but nonetheless, an allied
11 public, open space, park-like conservation use
12 that the Department of Veterans' Affairs is
13 proposing here to take place.
14 This is set up in front of you like it's
15 a -- a disposition in lands, like you're
16 getting rid of the land, throwing it away,
17 because you don't need it anymore.
18 I don't think that's what you're really
19 doing. What -- what I think is happening here
20 is more along the lines of a lateral transfer.
21 What you're -- what -- what is being proposed
22 is to take a piece of the State forest land,
23 and move it from one kind of management into a
24 different kind of management, which still in
25 the final analysis is going to carry with it a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 150
October 26, 1999
1 lot of the character of the conservation use
2 that this land was originally acquired for.
3 So we are concerned, Governor, and members
4 of the Cabinet, with the fact that you are in
5 the grips of what is the first threshold
6 consideration of this constitutional amendment.
7 Frankly, yesterday when your staff was --
8 the staffs of your various agencies were
9 discussing this issue, it seemed to us that
10 they had come up with a pretty viable idea.
11 And that viable idea was that it might not
12 be necessary to convey a fee simple deed to the
13 Veterans' Administration to allow the use to
14 take place, that through a management
15 agreement, or through the conveyance of a deed
16 that would be less than a fee simple deed, but
17 would nonetheless give them the perpetual right
18 to have a cemetery on the property, that you
19 could avoid having to deal with what appears to
20 be a sort of irrelevant test concerning the
21 disposition of land.
22 This land is not being disposed of to build
23 a power line acrossed it, or a canal acrossed
24 it, or it's not being disposed of to allow
25 somebody to put a prison on it, or some other
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 151
October 26, 1999
1 use that is potentially inimicable to the
2 conservation purpose. It's being shifted from
3 one sort of category of open space to another.
4 So in the final analysis, we have concerns
5 about the way that this is being proposed, and
6 we think that the factual record -- if this is
7 handled as a disposition, that the factual
8 record is not the kind of factual record that
9 as a matter of precedent we would -- we or you
10 would want to see justify the conveyance into a
11 disposition situation of vital public lands
12 that were acquired for preservation.
13 What we're suggesting is, Governor, and
14 members of the Cabinet, that you consider
15 taking a couple of steps back on this item.
16 You know, this is property that the Department
17 of Veterans' Affairs is saying it needs to be
18 able to use by the year 2016.
19 Now, I realize there's wrap-up time,
20 planning time, and construction time that they
21 have to expend between now and 2016, and I'm
22 not suggesting a 15-year delay.
23 But I am suggesting that perhaps if you
24 were to consider delaying this matter for a
25 couple of meetings, and seeking at the highest
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 152
October 26, 1999
1 levels with regard to the Department of
2 Veterans' Affairs, some alternative means to
3 accomplish this goal, you might well find a
4 better way of meeting this constitutional test
5 without setting up what might be a very weak
6 set of facts in order to sustain that test in
7 this, its first application that this Governor
8 and Cabinet, to my knowledge, have had the
9 opportunity to make of it.
10 The final thing that I'll say is that --
11 that we think the situation is made a lot
12 better by the decision that was made by the
13 Department of Veterans' Affairs, and by --
14 I think through the innovation of
15 Secretary Struhs and his Department to remove
16 the 42 acres of sensitive sandhill habitat from
17 the conveyance entirely.
18 I think that serves under the terms of the
19 discussion that happened in the record to make
20 this more defensible than it was before. But I
21 still think that -- that there is a problem.
22 So my recommendation to you would be that
23 you take steps to find a way to do this. That
24 does not confront the provision of the new
25 Constitution that was voted on by 73 percent of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 153
October 26, 1999
1 the voters in Florida who said they wanted to
2 set up special protections to preserve lands
3 like this.
4 We think that through some innovative
5 steps, or even, Governor, and members of the
6 Cabinet, through some findings you might make
7 today, some findings you might make today that
8 would make it clear that what you are doing
9 here is not really disposing of land.
10 But what you are really doing is committing
11 that land to a different kind of conservation
12 use under a different -- under a different
13 masthead, so to speak, that you might be able
14 to avoid the confrontation of that -- that
15 constitutional test.
16 The veterans' needs are legitimate, we
17 acknowledge them, we support them, we wish the
18 Federal government were appropriating money to
19 meet them in a more forthright way on its own.
20 But our concern here is -- is simply that
21 the provisions of Florida's Constitution that
22 provide new criteria for the disposal of these
23 kinds of lands be adhered to carefully, and we
24 think that it would merit taking some time to
25 do that, and maybe coming up with some more
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 154
October 26, 1999
1 innovative alternatives, even if those
2 alternatives are still focusing on this piece
3 of land that they want.
4 The quality of title that you convey may
5 make a very important difference with regard to
6 whether you confront that constitutional test
7 or not.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Charles.
9 Commissioner, you wanted to --
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes, Governor. If
11 I could, just kind of respond to some of what
12 Mr. Lee has said there.
13 I fully agree that, as Mr. Lee has stated,
14 we've got to be very careful about the
15 disposition of -- of conservation lands, and
16 I -- and I think we -- we always will be.
17 As it relates to the question of -- of
18 building a factual case to -- to comply with
19 the -- Section 18 of the Article X, Charles,
20 you -- you quoted one person's opinion, which
21 in and of itself I don't think necessarily is,
22 you know, conclusive as to evidence.
23 The -- to me what would be more controlling
24 would be the opinions of the people who have
25 been actively managing this property on behalf
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 155
October 26, 1999
1 of the State, which is our Department, our
2 Division of Forestry.
3 And -- and I've asked for their opinion,
4 and they've looked at it. And I can tell you,
5 our folks don't like giving up land. We like
6 expanding our forests, as -- as you support
7 very much.
8 But as they took a look at it, the
9 150,000 acres that constitutes the
10 Withlacoochee State Forest is a beautiful site.
11 The surplusing of this land, their conclusion
12 was that it would not in any way affect their
13 management plan or their ability to conserve
14 that property.
15 And these are people who love that land as
16 much as anybody. And -- and certainly, we
17 all -- we all do because it's so -- so
18 beautiful. I've been there twice I think in
19 the last six months.
20 So I think as it relates to facts
21 supporting a conclusion that we could, in fact,
22 dispose of this land, I think it meets the
23 constitutional test, in my opinion, and I hope
24 the opinion of the -- the Board.
25 MR. LEE: If I could -- if I could just add
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 156
October 26, 1999
1 one thing in response to that.
2 I agree with you, Mr. Crawford, that the --
3 that the head of your Division of Forestry has
4 rendered that opinion. I understand that.
5 The difficulty that remains though is that
6 the government's document for management, which
7 the agency had to adopt because the Legislature
8 mandated that you have a management plan, and
9 abide by the management plan. If you go to
10 that management plan today, it says on the face
11 of it that none of the land in this forest is
12 considered surplus.
13 And so what you have is you have sort of
14 the free-floating opinion, if you will, of
15 admittedly, I agree with you, a knowledgeable
16 person.
17 But on the other hand, the legal document
18 that the Legislature told the Division to adopt
19 to govern the management of this forest does
20 not really have room in it for the opinion that
21 he's expressed.
22 Now, you -- there's a process to go back
23 through and amend those management plans.
24 But -- but what I'm trying to say is that --
25 that the governing document that your agency
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 157
October 26, 1999
1 has adopted still says today, and -- and as far
2 as I know, will say tomorrow and the next day,
3 that none of this land is considered surplus to
4 the needs of -- of the environmental protection
5 and forestry purposes within the forest.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, could I
7 ask Mr. Lee a question, please?
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure, General.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Mr. Lee, what was
10 your position on the alternate proposal?
11 MR. LEE: If -- the -- I think -- I think,
12 Mr. Milligan, I -- I would -- I've looked at
13 the alternate proposal. It clearly has
14 potential to be used as a cemetery site.
15 It is not as convenient because it is on --
16 it is separated by a local road. And I think
17 that the environmental quality of the alternate
18 site would be -- is -- is infinitely less in
19 terms of preservation lands, a lot less in
20 terms of preservation lands, than the site that
21 the Veterans' Affairs Department has selected.
22 They -- there -- it -- from -- I understand
23 why Veterans' Affairs wants the site that they
24 have selected.
25 But on the other hand, in this world of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 158
October 26, 1999
1 compromise, I would suggest that with a little
2 more effort, they could make the alternate site
3 just as attractive as the site that they have
4 selected.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So the passage of
6 the alternate site to Federal hands would not
7 violate the -- this constitutional amendment
8 that you --
9 MR. LEE: I think it would be -- I think --
10 I -- let me say that I think it would be
11 much -- I think it would be much easier to
12 justify in terms of factual representations
13 about the habitat that's there.
14 And the sand-- the -- the -- again, let me
15 get back to the fact that the --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you've
17 answered my question. You will pick and choose
18 those things that you think are within the
19 Constitution --
20 MR. LEE: Well, I --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and those things
22 that are not within the Constitution,
23 regardless of what the use of the land may be.
24 MR. LEE: It applies, but it would be
25 easier to meet the test there in my opinion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 159
October 26, 1999
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You've answered it.
2 Thank you.
3 MS. HANCOCK: Hi.
4 Judy Hancock, representing the Florida
5 Chapter of the Sierra Club. And I'm the Public
6 Lands Chair, and have been for over ten years.
7 We would like to express our support for
8 the retention of the 140 acres of mostly native
9 sandhill community as State forest lands,
10 managed for conservation and recreation as part
11 of the Withlacoochee State Forest for the
12 people of Florida and out-of-state visitors, as
13 they have been for more than 40 years.
14 These lands were purchased by the State
15 from the Federal government for conservation of
16 natural resources, including endangered and
17 threatened species, and for compatible
18 recreation. Payments were made to the Feds for
19 these purposes for 25 years.
20 During that time, and subsequently, these
21 lands have been integral to the sandhill
22 community and the --
23 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
24 room.)
25 MS. HANCOCK: -- Withlacoochee. They have
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 160
October 26, 1999
1 been, and are, habitat to many species of
2 wildlife. These species depend on this habitat
3 for their continued existence in this area.
4 Our concerns, which we have stated on many
5 occasions, remain as follows: We have very
6 grave concerns about setting a precedent by
7 allowing the conversion of conservation lands
8 to another use.
9 There seems to be varying opinion as to
10 whether this is unconstitutional. And we do
11 not feel that any action should be taken until
12 this is adequately determined. It is highly
13 important that we adhere to the provisions of
14 Constitutional Revision 5, and that decisions
15 are responsive to the public mandate to protect
16 the State's conservation lands.
17 No criteria to best determine whether
18 certain lands are no longer needed for
19 conservation purposes has yet been developed.
20 Thus there is no factual determination that
21 this sandhill site is surplus to the State's
22 needs and no longer needed for conservation
23 purposes.
24 It is, in fact, unlikely that the site
25 would be considered as surplus in this regard,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 161
October 26, 1999
1 as it is composed mostly of imperiled sandhill,
2 with its compliment of endangered and
3 threatened species, and species of special
4 concern. It is contiguous to the longleaf
5 sandhill community on the Croom tract of the
6 Withlacoochee State Forest, and is highly used
7 for outdoor recreation, and is consistent with
8 the management goals and objectives --
9 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
10 room.)
11 MS. HANCOCK: -- identified in the land
12 management plan approved by the Land Management
13 Advisory Council in its 1996 review of the
14 plan.
15 In regard to the condition of some of the
16 sandhill community on this tract, the above
17 mentioned plan states that due to past
18 management practices, slash pine was wrongly
19 planted in areas which should have been
20 regenerated to longleaf -- with longleaf pine,
21 the species indigenous to the site.
22 The land management plan states that this
23 was a mistake shared by many land managers
24 during the late 1950s and early 1960s. The
25 plan states that many of the off-site areas
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 162
October 26, 1999
1 have been restored to the naturally occurring
2 longleaf, and that the remaining off-site areas
3 will be restored as one of the objectives of
4 the plan.
5 Approximately 100 acres of the expansion
6 request are in need of this type of
7 restoration.
8 Many of the lands that the State acquires
9 share this need in regard to restoration. This
10 is one of the goals of the program.
11 Florida is spending millions to acquire and
12 restore this imperiled ecosystem, which was
13 once abundant, and is now greatly diminished
14 from its original acreage by over 97 percent.
15 It is grim testimony to the endangerment of
16 sandhills that so many species that occupy this
17 community are at risk.
18 Through its land acquisition and management
19 program, the State is attempting to ensure that
20 these at-risk species will continue to survive
21 in Florida, and will not become extinct in this
22 state.
23 In closing, the State received a clear
24 message from the public in last year's
25 Constitutional Revision 5, which received a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 163
October 26, 1999
1 resounding 73 percent vote in support of land
2 acquisition and management, and protection of
3 remaining natural areas in the state.
4 No criteria has been developed on which to
5 base determinations regarding whether some
6 parcels are no longer needed to meet the
7 State's conservation and recreation goals.
8 This site has imperiled sandhill contains
9 increasingly rare species of plants and
10 animals, and is a vital component of the
11 Withlacoochee State Forest. There is a
12 critical need to preserve and protect Florida's
13 areas for natural -- natural areas for future
14 generations.
15 It makes sense to retain and protect and
16 manage natural areas which are already
17 acquired, and to seek alternative sites for
18 nonconservation uses.
19 We ask that this request be deferred until
20 the constitutional issues are thoroughly
21 addressed, until criteria for surplusing lands
22 is developed, and alternative sites for
23 cemetery needs in this part of the state are
24 pursued.
25 I would like to just make one final
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 164
October 26, 1999
1 statement. We need to recognize clearly that
2 approval of the transfer of this tract, whether
3 by surplus or other means, constitutes approval
4 of the conversion of one of our most at-risk
5 habitats to a different type of system
6 entirely.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 MR. FULLER: Governor and Cabinet,
9 Manley Fuller, Florida Wildlife Federation.
10 I'll be brief.
11 We share concerns that the previous
12 speakers have -- have expressed. We were
13 hoping yesterday after some good meetings that
14 a less than fee conveyance of the property for
15 another type of open space use, a perpetual
16 lease to the Federal government for the
17 portions of the property that would be
18 developed as the cemetery site could -- could
19 avoid potentially setting that case of first
20 impression regarding our new constitutional
21 language.
22 But that -- that's -- that's -- that's,
23 in essence -- I want to make that comment
24 regarding comments that Mr. Lee had made.
25 The Florida Wildlife Federation recognizes
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 165
October 26, 1999
1 the need for expanded facilities for veterans
2 to be buried in Florida. Our questions about
3 this were that we thought that there are other
4 al-- there might be other alternatives that
5 could be looked at.
6 Those alternatives have not been well
7 received. We -- we would like to see
8 consideration given to a site such as the
9 2100 acre Federally owned property which lies
10 about 8 miles from the site, not as -- as to
11 perhaps a means of meeting future veteran needs
12 beyond 2030 in central Florida because our
13 population will continue to grow.
14 And there's -- there's a 2100 acre research
15 ranch, which is in pasture land now, but it's
16 owned by the Federal government approximately
17 8 miles from this existing cemetery.
18 So we've urged consideration for those
19 kinds of alternatives.
20 But I want to make it very clear that we in
21 no way are saying that veterans don't have --
22 that this isn't a societal need, and it should
23 be -- and it's a need that should be met.
24 But -- but our alternatives have -- have
25 not been -- have not been considered viable.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 166
October 26, 1999
1 We would like to -- what they have
2 indicated is they would like to expand this
3 facility, subject to your conditions, and that
4 they would like to move aggressively into south
5 Florida, and to develop a facility there.
6 In that -- in that situation, we -- we'd
7 like to get involved earlier in the process,
8 and we'd like to work with the
9 Veterans' Administration, whoever we need to.
10 And consideration of south Florida sites, we'd
11 urge the VA to consider locations such as
12 Homestead Air Force Base, or the A.G. Holley
13 Hospital site near Lantana. There are others.
14 But we'd like to be involved in that
15 process so that we don't get into this sort of
16 situation regarding that issue.
17 Beyond this issue, and that having to do
18 with the -- the cemetery, we do have general
19 concerns, because you will be receiving in the
20 future other proposals for other types of clear
21 public purposes that society needs to meet.
22 And you will receive proposals from local
23 governments and other people that these are
24 desirable and necessary things for society to
25 provide.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 167
October 26, 1999
1 But we really are concerned, and we know
2 you are -- would share this, too, that these --
3 that our conservation lands not be regarded as
4 a land bank for these other necessary societal
5 objectives.
6 And that's part of our concern about this
7 issue. The specifics of this issue have been
8 covered by the other speakers, and we share
9 those. But there are other proposals that may
10 come to you.
11 And so to address these concerns, we'd like
12 to make the following suggestion or request of
13 the Trustees: We'd urge the Governor and the
14 Cabinet prior to surplusing of properties
15 managed for conservation, one, to carefully
16 review your rules in light of the new
17 constitutional amendment, and to establish
18 procedures for public input early in the
19 process.
20 We believe particularly that the no longer
21 needed for conservation purposes determination
22 required by the Constitution should be rigorous
23 and biologically based.
24 So that concludes our remarks.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 168
October 26, 1999
1 MR. FULLER: Thank you, sir.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs, would you
3 like to comment on that last suggestion?
4 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
5 I -- I agree that given the new
6 constitutional amendment, that it's appropriate
7 for the Department to review its -- its rules
8 of engagement when it comes to surplusing, and
9 we've -- we've begun that process. And I'd be
10 happy to provide a report to the Cabinet at a
11 later date.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think it'd be very
13 useful.
14 I just -- let's -- I'm not sure anybody's
15 going to show their hand.
16 But are we going to get sued?
17 Charles, is there a lawsuit in our future?
18 MR. LEE: I -- Governor, I don't think from
19 us you're going to see that. But I --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Putting you on the spot.
21 But --
22 MR. LEE: But my problem is, I don't
23 control the whole world.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand.
25 MR. LEE: Not from us, I don't think.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 169
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: You come close to
2 controlling the whole world though.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just the
4 environmental world.
5 MR. FULLER: Governor, I'd like to respond
6 to your question.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
8 MR. FULLER: My Board and my legal
9 committee has said they wanted to evaluate what
10 came out -- came out of the process, and -- and
11 were this -- were this a different type of
12 public purpose, I think our answer would be
13 yes.
14 We are -- our Board will carefully consider
15 and weigh these circumstances in making that
16 determination.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's fair. Thank you.
18 Yes, General Butterworth.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would just
20 say, Manley, this is not the case to go on.
21 And -- and I think everyone in this room knows
22 that. And --
23 MR. FULLER: I'll convey your -- I'll
24 convey your best to our Board.
25 MR. STRUHS: If -- if I could, please, just
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 170
October 26, 1999
1 note we have six more speakers who would like
2 to speak on this issue, all in support,
3 including County Commissioner Karen Krauss from
4 Sumter County; and then five different
5 representatives from various veterans advocacy
6 organizations.
7 We're willing to recommend that they be
8 allocated probably somewhere in the
9 neighborhood of 2, certainly no more than
10 3 minutes a piece, if that's -- if that's --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Brevity is good.
12 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: When you're ahead.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good afternoon.
15 MS. KRAUSS: Good afternoon. It's not
16 fair. Last time right before I got up, they
17 gave me 3 minutes.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: On a 3-minute
19 program.
20 MS. KRAUSS: I am here today representing
21 the Sumter County Board of County
22 Commissioners. They elected to send me here
23 today to let you know that we are in full
24 support of the expansion.
25 I also have a letter with me from
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 171
October 26, 1999
1 Representative Everett Kelly. I talked with
2 Everett twice last evening. He did have a
3 situation come up, and asked that I please give
4 his apologies. But we do have a letter of
5 support from him on the cemetery expansion.
6 A couple things that I would like to go
7 over, and probably from a little diff-- little
8 bit of a different angle.
9 I'm a resident of Sumter County, and I'm a
10 County Commissioner of Sumter County. So I
11 didn't just go down there yesterday and look
12 around and pick up a few tidbits of
13 information.
14 To start out with, as far as it being
15 something that would set a precedent, I don't
16 believe that this Cabinet and the Governor's
17 going to let that happen.
18 We have a good Board of County
19 Commissioners down there, we have a good
20 comprehensive plan. We have no plans of coming
21 to you and asking you for any of these lands.
22 The State lands that are there are in our
23 county, and we're going to protect those.
24 But we do support this expansion because
25 the cemetery is already there, we're not
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 172
October 26, 1999
1 putting something else out there. We're
2 expanding and enhancing what we have.
3 Item 2 would be that it is contiguous. We
4 are to be good stewards of the money that we
5 collect from the people. I do not believe that
6 we would be doing that if we put it in another
7 location. It is going to cost a lot of money
8 to start over without that infrastructure.
9 Item 3, speaking as a Commissioner, in
10 1995, '96, and '97, Sumter County flooded
11 drastically. I was out there in my waders with
12 FEMA during the flooding, after the flooding,
13 assessing damage. The property, the 180 acres
14 is the best piece of property for that
15 expansion. Believe me.
16 You do not want to go south, you do not
17 want to go east, it floods. I have been
18 through every nook and cranny. The further
19 south you go, it's in my district, I know it.
20 It is not -- option B is not the best option.
21 Fourth thing -- and I'll kind of wrap this
22 up -- is that as far as the animals out there,
23 people go out there at daybreak, they go out
24 there at dusk just to park and watch the deer,
25 the wild turkey, and all the other wildlife out
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 173
October 26, 1999
1 there.
2 If you approve this, and I hope you will,
3 not only will you be giving the veterans the
4 expansion that they need, but you will also be
5 giving those animals a preserve to live in
6 peace. Right now they are hunted around the
7 boundary lines of the present cemetery. You're
8 giving them another 180 acres of preserve.
9 It's the -- it's a win-win situation.
10 So I would like to ask that you would
11 approve this today --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Commissioner.
13 MS. KRAUSS: -- our veterans deserve it,
14 and we've been through so much for it, and
15 please, personally, I would make a heartfelt
16 plea that you do this.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming back
18 up.
19 MR. STRUHS: Gentlemen, you may all want to
20 come up at the same time: Mr. Giese,
21 Mr. Linden, Mr. Manfrey, Mr. Price, and
22 Mr. Wheeler.
23 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
24 MR. STRUHS: And -- and please sign your
25 names.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 174
October 26, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good afternoon.
2 MR. LINDEN: Good afternoon, Governor and
3 Cabinet. I will be very brief.
4 My name's Al Linden. I'm the
5 Executive Director of this Disabled American
6 Veterans, the State of Florida for the past
7 12 years.
8 I'm also the moderator of the Joint
9 Veterans Planning Group, and I'm a combat
10 wounded veteran of Vietnam. And I could have
11 gotten up here faster, but I lost my leg over
12 there, so I couldn't run quite as fast as I
13 used to.
14 But --
15 Moving right along, as I've said, my
16 relatives have told me that they would like the
17 rest of my body to reside in Florida when I
18 die, and in a Federal national cemetery. So
19 I -- and that's the majority of my family in --
20 are here in Florida, and -- and I'd like that
21 to occur.
22 As you know, and we've gone through it,
23 don't need to repeat, we have 1.7 million
24 veterans. And many of those veterans are
25 choosing Florida.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 175
October 26, 1999
1 As I told LEMAC, that was because they made
2 it so well, so pristine, such a nice state that
3 all these people from the north, when us
4 veterans retire --
5 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
6 MR. LINDEN: -- we come down here, and this
7 is where we want to finish out our -- our last
8 years, and we also want to be buried here. We
9 even drug some of our family down here now, and
10 they want us to be buried down here so they can
11 visit us.
12 So I think these are important factors.
13 I -- I listened to Robin's definition of
14 conservation. And I think that the ultimate in
15 conservation would be a Federal -- the
16 expansion of this Federal cemetery there.
17 I myself have unfortunately had to go there
18 to bury some of my fellow comrades, and I've
19 seen wildlife. I've almost hit a deer. So I
20 know that wildlife exists there on it. So I
21 can't see why we're -- this would affect the
22 wildlife in Florida. But I'm not an
23 environmentalist, per se.
24 Finally, the many benefits that the State
25 has offered has caused all of these people,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 176
October 26, 1999
1 including the younger family members to come
2 here.
3 And this is where they're going to choose
4 to be their final resting place.
5 And we have the oldest and most severely
6 disabled --
7 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
8 MR. LINDEN: -- population in the country.
9 I believe that you couldn't find a better
10 purpose of conservation than expanding the
11 national cemetery into this property. It seems
12 to be financially sound.
13 And as many of the previous people said, we
14 would never get another Federal cemetery in
15 central Florida if we were not -- didn't expand
16 this. So we would -- those of us in central
17 Florida could forget about being buried at
18 Bushnell when the time came.
19 So I would just urge your passage of your
20 proposal, and your favorable consideration, and
21 thank you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
23 Good afternoon.
24 MR. GIESE: Good morning, Mr. -- or is it
25 afternoon already?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 177
October 26, 1999
1 Good afternoon, Mr. Governor, Cabinet.
2 It's a pleasure to be here. And on behalf
3 of the 70,000 members of the Disabled American
4 Veterans, I rise in support of the expansion of
5 this cemetery as we are proposing.
6 As a 35-year veteran of the Army -- and I
7 know, Mr. Milligan, we were -- you were a
8 Marine -- but I cannot -- I cannot emphasize
9 enough the importance of this expansion to the
10 present cemetery.
11 To delay any further the decision to expand
12 this cemetery would be an injustice to the
13 brave men and women who so unselfishly defended
14 the cause of freedom. We were there when you
15 needed us, and now we need you, and your vote
16 today to make this project a reality.
17 When you speak of conservation, only one
18 needs to look at the present cemetery. And it
19 becomes very evident what the cemetery has done
20 for the ecosystems in that area.
21 To see the deer wander through the forests
22 and hear the turkeys cackle at night is -- is
23 just a beautiful sight.
24 And you speak about endangered species.
25 I'll tell you who the next endangered specie is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 178
October 26, 1999
1 in America, and it's your veterans of this
2 country. They're the next endangered specie.
3 So let's not let that happen.
4 We have a chance here right now to have a
5 rightful burial spot in Florida. I'm one of
6 those that came to Florida ten years ago, and
7 now decided to be buried here at the Bushnell
8 cemetery.
9 Please allow me the place to be buried at
10 Bushnell.
11 So I strongly urge you to adopt this
12 proposal, and deed this land over to the
13 Veterans' Administration.
14 Thank you for your time.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
16 MR. PRICE: Governor, and members of the
17 Cabinet, I'm Charlie Price. I represent the
18 Vietnam Veterans of America.
19 I'm not going to give you a flag waver
20 today. I just want to say a couple of things.
21 The 1.7 million veterans of the state of
22 Florida is a very large group of people. We
23 are in the tax base system. We have supported
24 the taxes to buy this public land. We feel the
25 veterans, as a group, has equal or superior
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 179
October 26, 1999
1 interest in that land. And I would say I think
2 the veterans have a few lawyers, too.
3 And we would say -- we would say that two
4 legal considerations would be met today to meet
5 the statutory means of the Constitution. If
6 what you do is fair, and the use of that land
7 is economically efficient, you have met the
8 standards. We believe you will.
9 And thank you very much.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Colonel.
11 MR. MANFREY: Governor Bush, and Cabinet
12 members, my name is Eugene R. Manfrey. I'm the
13 Legislative Chairman for the Veterans of
14 Foreign Wars on a state and national level.
15 I represent 85,000 members, an additional
16 47,000 members of the ladies auxiliary.
17 As a veterans organization, we are
18 concerned about the expansion of the Bushnell
19 National Cemetery for two reasons: One,
20 Bushnell cemetery is the only cemetery that we
21 have that has case -- casket burials.
22 Barrancas, Bay Pines, St. Augustine are the
23 only cemeteries that take crematory burials at
24 this time.
25 It is a fact that by 2010, Bushnell
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 180
October 26, 1999
1 cemetery will be full, which leads us to the
2 necessity to act now, not ten years from now.
3 With the influx of families moving to
4 Florida, brings it -- the veterans also with
5 the State that we invited -- that we invited
6 these people --
7 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
8 MR. MANFREY: -- to our state.
9 As our vet-- as our veteran population
10 dying faster than we can keep up with it, I am
11 a veteran of World War II, and a Korean
12 veteran. My age is sixty-nine, and I'm getting
13 older.
14 Plus the fact that the burial and cemetery
15 lots in the private sector has gotten so out
16 of -- far out of reach monetary, that they
17 are -- many of our veterans are depending on
18 the National Cemetery.
19 It is a known fact, there would be a
20 minimum of eight to ten years before the first
21 burial would be put in by 2010.
22 I was recently in Washington, D.C.,
23 lobbying for the veterans benefits. I got to
24 see Bill Young, the Appropriations Chairman;
25 Mike Bilirakis, member of the veterans
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 181
October 26, 1999
1 committee; Jim Davis, who's a member of the
2 committee; and a good friend of mine from
3 Pennsylvania, George Gekas.
4 And, Governor, I like that attitude that
5 you said if you'll lobby for us. I'm lobbying
6 today, too.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: It sounds like it.
8 MR. MANFREY: Our mission is to talk to the
9 Legislature about the underfunding of the VA
10 budget. And also about the national
11 cemeteries, especially the Bushnell cemeteries
12 which I reported to them.
13 I'm happy to report that House
14 Resolution 2684, the VA HUD bill, has been
15 passed by the House, and signed by the
16 President, which funds future national
17 cemeteries.
18 So that all remains, Governor, is that the
19 Governor -- the Cabinet gives its approval.
20 Being a World War II veteran, a Korean
21 veteran, I am the spokesman for those people
22 who couldn't be here. I speak for all the
23 mothers, the dads, the brothers, the sisters,
24 and the -- of those deceased veterans.
25 And for those of the POW and MIA who may be
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 182
October 26, 1999
1 sent here and want to be buried in -- or would
2 rightfully be buried in the national cemetery.
3 I would not like to be the person who would
4 have to tell a family of a veteran who wanted
5 to be buried in the national cemetery, sorry,
6 we have no space available because the
7 Legislature did not approve the expansion of
8 our cemetery.
9 I urge that the -- the committee approve
10 the expansion of the national cemetery.
11 I thank you very much.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
13 Good afternoon.
14 MR. WHEELER: Good afternoon, Governor.
15 Governor Bush, and members of the Cabinet.
16 Being a W, Wheeler, I always end up last place.
17 But this gave me an opportunity to scratch two
18 pages -- four pages down to about two
19 paragraphs.
20 So I'll be very short.
21 I represent officially today the Florida
22 Commission on Veteran Affairs. Unanimously,
23 the members of that Commission early on said
24 this is the place to go. This is the way they
25 wanted it done.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 183
October 26, 1999
1 I'm one of the newer members so -- Florida
2 as well as that Commission. But I have two
3 brothers, and we represent 94 years of military
4 service. I think that qualifies me both ways
5 to say, this cemetery is essential.
6 We're some of the ones also that came down
7 late.
8 I would say only one more thing. They have
9 said several times, don't let emotions enter
10 your decision.
11 To me, and to most of the military, emotion
12 and cemeteries is a -- synonymous. We visit
13 lots of them, we help families, we put our own
14 away. And I can't think of anything else that
15 should be more emotional than a decision on a
16 military cemetery.
17 Thank you very much.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I'd
20 like -- like to move the staff recommendation,
21 if that's all the speakers.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
24 second.
25 Are there any other speakers, David?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
TRUSTEES/INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 184
October 26, 1999
1 MR. STRUHS: No. We're finished with --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any discussion?
3 MR. STRUHS: -- all the speakers.
4 I -- I just would note --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: With -- with the
6 change adding that --
7 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- that provision
9 at the end.
10 MR. STRUHS: Thank you --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to --
12 MR. STRUHS: -- Commissioner.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- add that.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's all right.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
16 second.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Thank you all very much for coming.
19 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
20 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
21 *
22 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
23 12:18 p.m.)
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
185
October 26, 1999
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 184 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 5TH day of NOVEMBER, 1999.
18
19
20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
|
Cabinet
Affairs