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S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
August 24, 1999, commencing at approximately
9:12 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
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August 24, 1999
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 5
3 Approved 6
4 Approved 6
5 Approved 7
6 Approved 9
7 For Information Only 9
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 12
2 Approved 12
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Donna Arduin,
Secretary)
1 Approved 13
2 Approved 14
3 through 6 Approved 15
7 and 8 Approved 15
9 Approved 15
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 16
2 Approved 17
3 Approved 17
4 Approved 17
5 Approved 18
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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August 24, 1999
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS:
(Presented by Robin Higgins,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 20
2 Approved 20
3 Approved 26
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by John A. Stewart, Ed.D.,
Deputy Commissioner for Educational Programs)
1 Approved 32
2 Withdrawn 32
3 Approved 33
4 Approved 33
5 Approved 57, 88
6 Approved 89
7 Approved 89, 90
8 Approved 90
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 92
2 Approved 93
3 Approved 93
4 Approved 93
5 Approved 96
6 Approved 129
7 Deferred 130
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 131
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5
August 24, 1999
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:25 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
4 Administration.
5 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 1 is approval of
6 the minutes of the meeting held on August 12th.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could I have everybody's
8 attention, please?
9 Could --
10 TREASURER NELSON: And, Governor, I will
11 move the minutes.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
14 Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
17 a fiscal determination of an amount not
18 exceeding eight million six hundred and forty
19 thousand dollar, tax exempt Florida Housing
20 Finance Corporation Series 1999, for the
21 Deer Meadow Apartments Project.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
23 TREASURER NELSON: And second.
24 THE COURT: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6
August 24, 1999
1 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of
2 a fiscal determination in an amount not
3 exceeding five hundred and fifty thousand
4 dollar taxable Florida Housing Finance
5 Corporation housing revenue bonds for the
6 Raceway Pointe Apartments Project.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
8 TREASURER NELSON: And second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is approval of
12 a fiscal determination of an amount not
13 exceeding ten million one hundred and
14 thirty-five thousand dollar tax exempt, and
15 four million six hundred and five thousand
16 dollar taxable Florida Housing Finance
17 Corporation housing revenue bond for the
18 Woodridge Apartments Project.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move it.
20 TREASURER NELSON: And second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5, approval of a
24 fiscal determination of amounts not exceeding
25 nine million dollar tax exempt, and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7
August 24, 1999
1 two-and-a-half million dollar taxable Florida
2 Housing Finance Corporation housing revenue
3 bond for the Seminole Ridge Apartment Project.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
5 TREASURER NELSON: And second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6, Governor, and
9 members, is a status report and recommendations
10 on the Lawton Chiles Tobacco Endowment Fund
11 that we're submitting, (A), for your
12 information as to the -- the status report; and
13 the recommendations following up on our last
14 discussion 60 days ago.
15 At your direction, we deferred that
16 proposal at that time, went out and hired an
17 additional consultant who prepared a report for
18 us, and made some additional recommendations.
19 We then had a teleconference about 10 days
20 ago with our Investment Advisory Council
21 members; solicited the comments that we could
22 from them, and have attached their comments,
23 those that chose to submit them; and then the
24 staff has prepared a second set of
25 recommendations.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8
August 24, 1999
1 And essentially, the recommendations are to
2 go to 60 percent on the equity share, and
3 correspondingly reduce the cash share from
4 25 percent to 5 percent.
5 So it would be 60 percent equities,
6 35 percent bonds, and 5 percent cash.
7 We would anticipate then coming back later
8 this fall with further recommendations
9 regarding the possible reallocation, because
10 we'll get another tranche of dollars late in
11 December, and then we'll get another one the
12 following three -- each of the following
13 three years.
14 So we would anticipate coming back to you
15 with respect to specific recommendations on how
16 that next tranche perhaps should be invested.
17 The consultant has made some
18 recommendations, the Advisory Council has --
19 several of the members have asked additional
20 questions about some of those follow-on
21 recommendations that the consultant made.
22 And so that's basically the posture that
23 we're in this morning.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any -- any comments?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I had a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 9
August 24, 1999
1 chance to listen in on your conference 10 days
2 ago or so, and -- and certainly the sense I got
3 from the IAC members that were participating,
4 which I believe were four of the --
5 MR. HERNDON: Correct.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- of the six, that
7 there was really little disagreement on the
8 60 percent issue, plus or minus 5 percent for
9 maneuver room; and that there was some
10 discussion in some other areas, including
11 international.
12 MR. HERNDON: Right.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and, frankly,
14 based on what I heard then from those four IAC
15 members, and your consultant, I'm quite
16 comfortable with -- with the recommendation.
17 So I would recommend that we approve it,
18 and so move it.
19 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 7 is a status
23 report on pension reform activities.
24 Governor, you had indicated at the last
25 meeting your interest in this continuing topic.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 10
August 24, 1999
1 This is just submitted for your information.
2 It briefly highlights the current level of
3 activity in the House and Senate, principally
4 at the staff level. We're participating in
5 those -- those discussions as -- as and when
6 we're invited. And we will, of course, keep
7 you posted and schedule individual briefings --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you just say you
9 were -- you're participating in these meetings
10 as you are invited?
11 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does that imply that you're
13 not always invited?
14 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's what I thought.
16 Can I help in that regard?
17 MR. HERNDON: Well, perhaps.
18 I mean, there's not been any reluctance
19 to -- to necessarily invite us. But they've
20 had different purposes in -- in mind for some
21 of their meetings.
22 And so we -- if we run into a problem,
23 we'll certainly send --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
25 MR. HERNDON: -- up a red flare.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11
August 24, 1999
1 That -- I think, Governor, just in terms of
2 the specifics, if that report could be
3 submitted for information, and that's all
4 that's needed.
5 And that completes the agenda.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. Thank you.
7 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
8 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
9 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 12
August 24, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 1 is approval of
3 the minutes of the June 22nd meeting.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 2 is a resolution
9 authorizing the issuance of up to sixty million
10 three hundred forty thousand of
11 Board of Regents revenue bonds for a student
12 housing facility for the University of
13 Central Florida.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
21 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
22 concluded.)
23 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 13
August 24, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Administration Commission.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Item 2.
8 MS. ARDUIN: Good morning, Governor,
9 Cabinet.
10 The first item is approval of the minutes
11 for the meeting held August --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: We just did it.
13 MS. ARDUIN: -- 12th.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We did it.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion, Item 2.
16 MS. ARDUIN: I'm sorry. Can't hear.
17 The next item is a transfer of the Dep--
18 for the Department of Agriculture and
19 Consumer Services to replace an aircraft used
20 for dog fly and mosquito control.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Get those
23 mosquitos.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second it.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 14
August 24, 1999
1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is
2 Bobby Bowden --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Crawford,
4 would you like to just tell us what -- how you
5 can only -- you can selectively strike
6 dog flies and mosquitos, and nothing else?
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, it's -- it's
8 not easy, but after nine years of training, we
9 finally have got it down pat. So --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Does
11 Bobby Bowden use this plane --
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah, it's the same
13 plane that Bowden uses. So --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
15 second.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MS. ARDUIN: The next one, two, three,
18 four items are transfers for the
19 Department of Education, if you'd like to move
20 them together.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move Item 2
23 through 5 -- 6. Two through six.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION 15
August 24, 1999
1 second.
2 Without objection, they're all approved.
3 MS. ARDUIN: The next two items are
4 transfers for the Department of
5 Law Enforcement.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 7 and 8.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion and second.
9 Without objection, they're approved.
10 MS. ARDUIN: Next item is transfer --
11 actually approval of an administrative rule
12 change for the Department of
13 Management Services.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 9.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 Thank you, Donna.
20 MS. ARDUIN: Thank you.
21 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
22 concluded.)
23 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 16
August 24, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
4 MR. FUCHS: Item 1 is -- the minutes of the
5 June 22nd, 1999, meeting.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved -- moved and
10 seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is a request for
13 approval and authority to file with the
14 Secretary of State proposed amendments to
15 Rule 12A-1.0911.
16 This is a taxpayer friendly rule initiative
17 that allows companies such as Amway and Shaklee
18 that have a lot of independent sellers to
19 file -- register and file on behalf of all of
20 them, instead of having all of those
21 individuals have to do it --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, okay.
23 MR. FUCHS: -- by themselves.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 17
August 24, 1999
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. FUCHS: Item 3 is a request to file a
5 repeal of Rules 12B-7.001, 7.002, 7.007, 7.009,
6 and 7.023. These rules are unnecessary as they
7 parrot the statute.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. FUCHS: Item 4 is a request to repeal
13 Rules 12E-1.007 and 12E-1.010. These
14 provisions are also contained in
15 Florida Statutes and are redundant.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. FUCHS: And Item 5 is a request for
22 approval and authority to enter into a contract
23 with Baca, Stein and White & Associates for
24 Electronic Data Interchange, and
25 ACH-Debit Services.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 18
August 24, 1999
1 This is a very successful program,
2 Governor, and members of the Cabinet. EDI was
3 debated in the Legislature a number of years
4 ago, but I can report to you that in the last
5 month, we received 47,000 returns, and
6 six hundred and ninety million dollars
7 paperless through this mechanism.
8 In the last year it's just under
9 500,000 returns and 7.4 billion dollars without
10 taxpayers, or the Department of Revenue, having
11 to process any paper at all.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: What percentage of the
13 revenue is that?
14 MR. FUCHS: Sir?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: What percentage of the
16 revenue --
17 MR. FUCHS: We collect --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is --
19 MR. FUCHS: -- 23 billion annually. So 7.4
20 is, what, about 30 percent.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 19
August 24, 1999
1 Thank you.
2 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
3 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
4 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 20
August 24, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of
2 Veterans' Affairs.
3 Colonel.
4 MS. HIGGINS: Good morning, sir.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
6 minutes for March 23rd and September 23rd, 19--
7 how can September 23rd, 1999, be a --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: '98.
9 MS. HIGGINS: '98, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: '98. That's
11 better.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- be approved.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, they're approved.
16 Item 2.
17 MS. HIGGINS: And the Item 2 is the accep--
18 I recommend acceptance of the quarterly reports
19 for the third and fourth quarters of 1998-99
20 fiscal year.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MS. HIGGINS: Item Number 3 is the -- I
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 21
August 24, 1999
1 recommend approval of the site selection
2 criteria for the site for the next state
3 veterans' nursing homes.
4 In the mid-1980s, the Division of
5 Veterans' Affairs was directed by
6 Chapter 86-177 to conduct a study of Florida's
7 needs for nursing home care for veterans.
8 In December of 1986, the Division of -- of
9 the Florida Department of -- Division of
10 Veterans' Affairs released their study, which
11 concluded that the 1985 veterans population of
12 1.44 million justified a need for eleven state
13 veterans' nursing homes, with a total of
14 1,320 beds.
15 With today's veterans population of
16 1.7 million veterans, of that 600,000 of them
17 alone are World War II veterans, the need is
18 even greater and more urgent.
19 Subsequently, Florida embarked on an
20 ambitious program to conduct -- construct a
21 total of six state veterans' nursing homes.
22 They include a veterans' domiciliary home
23 in Lake City, and five state veterans' nursing
24 homes.
25 Currently, the domiciliary, and two
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 22
August 24, 1999
1 veterans' nursing homes have been constructed,
2 and are operating.
3 Construction of the third commenced with a
4 groundbreaking ceremony last week in
5 Pembroke Pines.
6 And, Governor, thank you very much for
7 being there, and making it so special for all
8 of us.
9 By the fall of 2000, Florida will have
10 provided, with substantial Federal assistance,
11 four facilities that include 360 veterans'
12 nursing home beds, and 150 domiciliary beds.
13 One hundred and twenty of those nursing home
14 beds will be dedicated for Alzheimer's
15 patients -- Alzheimer's residents.
16 The Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs
17 remains committed to providing quality care for
18 our state veterans.
19 We have completed the pre-application
20 process to the U.S. Department of
21 Veterans' Affairs for two additional nursing
22 homes originally envisioned in the long-range
23 plan.
24 The VA, as most of you know, construct --
25 provides 65 percent of the construction
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 23
August 24, 1999
1 funding, which is approximately 10 million
2 dollars per facility. Florida provides
3 35 percent of the funding, which can be a
4 combination of State and local funds, or State
5 funds -- or just State funds.
6 By 2004, with the addition of these two new
7 state veterans' nursing homes, Florida will
8 have provided 600 nursing home beds, and
9 150 domiciliary beds for Florida veterans.
10 Of note, the VA -- the Federal VA pays a
11 per diem rate of $42.93, which represents
12 approximately 34 percent of the daily cost of
13 care for each veteran resident of the nursing
14 home.
15 This, of course, represents a significant
16 savings to the State in the operating costs of
17 the housing and care of these aging veterans.
18 Currently, due to -- specifically to the
19 placement of earlier homes, the areas of the
20 state with the most need now are north Florida
21 and southwest Florida.
22 Over the past several months, we have
23 refined the state's -- the site selection
24 criteria used to select the earlier sites. In
25 the interest of efficiency, we're also seeking
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 24
August 24, 1999
1 to select the next two sites simultaneously.
2 We have conducted two public -- public
3 meetings, one in Jacksonville in June, and a
4 second in St. Petersburg earlier this month.
5 At these meetings, public comment was
6 solicited, and where appropriate, the criteria
7 were modified to accommodate the public
8 concerns.
9 Although much of the criteria remains the
10 same, as in earlier selections, there are some
11 key differences that I'd like to highlight for
12 you this morning.
13 First, this set of criteria clearly defines
14 the boundaries and counties encompassed in the
15 two eligibility areas.
16 Using the VA criteria for the radius of a
17 market area, which is 75 miles, we have clearly
18 defined the areas needing the next set of
19 facilities.
20 Second, in the area of acreage, the
21 criteria is expanded from a minimum of
22 12 acres, to 12 to 15 acres, to accommodate
23 providing adequate land, not only for
24 buildings, but also to provide an open
25 environment around the facility.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 25
August 24, 1999
1 And finally, we have added a section which
2 requires localities to fully describe all
3 public and private nursing homes already
4 operating in the area. This will ensure
5 placement only in an area of strong need.
6 Our intent is to select the site in each
7 area that provides the best suitable piece of
8 land for these homes, and which is located in
9 the area of greatest need.
10 The Site Selection Committee will be
11 composed of seven Floridians: Four are from
12 the Department of -- the Veterans' Affairs,
13 including our committee chairman; one will be
14 from the Department of Elder Affairs; one from
15 the Department of Management Services; and one
16 is a veteran outside of State government who
17 resides outside of the area of consideration.
18 This morning, I request your approval of
19 the site selection criteria which I have
20 submitted.
21 As we go forward, I want to ensure you that
22 we intend to conduct the process fairly,
23 objectively, and as efficiently and effectively
24 as possible, so have -- so as to have those two
25 sites to recommend to you at the February
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 26
August 24, 1999
1 meeting.
2 I have included a request for the State's
3 initial increment of funding for these two
4 homes in the capital improvement plan of my
5 Department's 2000-2001 LBR.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any comments?
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I just -- I just
8 would comment, I appreciate the really strong
9 effort that -- to really refine the criteria.
10 And --
11 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you, sir.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and I thank you
13 for that.
14 And -- and I move the -- move the item.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MS. HIGGINS: I have one informational
20 item, sir.
21 Thank you for doing that.
22 And that is at my last meeting, I said that
23 the dedication of the Korean War Memorial was
24 going to be November 11th.
25 As you know, and I think General Milligan,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 27
August 24, 1999
1 I've already spoken with him, but I thought it
2 was important to mention today that due to the
3 concerns of the veterans that I've talked with,
4 the dedication for the Korean War Memorial will
5 not be November 11th.
6 They were concerned that they participate
7 very much in their local activities on that
8 date, and had asked that we move it up to
9 another date.
10 Right now we're looking at December 11th.
11 I think that's going to work out very nicely,
12 and I'll make sure that all of you know exactly
13 when we -- when we pin that down.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, a quick
15 question of the Madam Secretary.
16 I've heard a couple of comments, and read a
17 couple of articles on the transfer of the
18 179 acres for the Bushnell cemetery.
19 I'd just be interested to know what the
20 status of that is.
21 MS. HIGGINS: Yes, sir. I'm glad that --
22 I'm glad that you asked that.
23 There has been a request -- for those of
24 you who don't know, and I know the Governor is
25 familiar with this as well.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 28
August 24, 1999
1 There has been a request by the
2 U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs for
3 179 acres to be transferred to the Bushnell
4 National Cemetery to expand that cemetery.
5 Right now, the cemetery has enough land to
6 accommodate the full range and the full
7 spectrum of veterans burials until the
8 year 2016.
9 This 179 acres will allow the cemetery to
10 increase its accommodation -- its availability
11 until -- for another 15 years, until about the
12 year 2030.
13 There are some concerns, I understand, from
14 some environmental groups. And while I, and my
15 Department, and the veterans groups understand
16 the need to be good stewards of public land,
17 I think the 179 acres is small -- a small
18 amount of land based upon the total environment
19 of the park, which I understand is about
20 144,000 acres.
21 Right now, it's -- the -- the issue is
22 being discussed at public meetings, and with
23 the LAMAC, I guess. That's the Land
24 Acquisition Management Advisory Council. They
25 have a meeting on September 2nd, and I
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1 understand will be briefing you for your
2 recommendation and approval on the transfer of
3 that land at -- right now, the October meeting
4 is the schedule that they're briefing you.
5 And I would request now, and I request --
6 at that point, I will request also your serious
7 consideration for approving this transfer.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Colonel, one -- one other
9 thing.
10 Can you give us a -- a brief update on the
11 South Florida National Cemetery efforts, and
12 what we can do to help in that regard.
13 MS. HIGGINS: Yes, sir. Thank you for
14 asking that as well.
15 As -- as you know, south Florida is -- is
16 in dire need of receiving a -- another
17 national cemetery.
18 They actually have been on the list with
19 the U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs for
20 15, 20 years now to receive a national
21 cemetery.
22 The National Cemetery in Bushnell, while a
23 beautiful cemetery, and -- and fulfilling a
24 wonderful need for Floridians, is too far to
25 accommodate the needs of the -- the huge number
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1 of -- of veterans in south Florida.
2 I've testified in Washington, we have
3 gotten some wonderful support, we have a bill
4 working right now in Washington which would
5 allow for the initial construction costs to be
6 placed in the Department of -- U.S. Department
7 of Veterans' Affairs to start preconstruction,
8 or research into looking for adequate land and
9 developing that in south Florida.
10 And I hope to push that along.
11 Governor, you've already written a letter,
12 and I'll probably ask you in the future for
13 your help. And certainly we will continue
14 to -- to fight on all -- on all -- we're
15 getting good, nonpartisan, both sides of the
16 aisle, both Houses support for that.
17 So -- so I think that's an important effort
18 as well.
19 Certainly south Florida is still very far
20 from Bushnell. So the -- the transfer of land
21 is still needed. And although that south
22 Florida cemetery is something that I think we
23 all are going to fight very -- very hard for,
24 it's been a dream for 20 years, and may
25 continue to remain a dream as well.
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1 So we need both the transfer of land and
2 the south Florida cemetery.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
4 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you, General, for ask--
5 thank you, Governor, for asking that question.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Robin.
7 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you, sir.
8 (The Department of Veterans' Affairs Agenda
9 was concluded.)
10 *
11
12
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14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 DR. STEWART: Governor, members of the
3 Cabinet.
4 Item Number 1 is approval of the minutes of
5 the meeting held on June 22nd.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 DR. STEWART: Item Number 2 was voluntarily
12 withdrawn by the applicant.
13 Item 3 is amendment to Rule 6A-4.00821, the
14 Florida Education Leadership Examination.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, motion
16 to withdraw on 2, Governor.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and second
20 to withdraw.
21 It's approved.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And motion
23 on Number 3.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 Item 4.
4 DR. STEWART: Item 4 --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor, I'd like
6 to talk a little bit about the --
7 No, this is the residency program, isn't
8 it? Let me figure out --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Not there yet, Tom.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Go ahead,
11 John.
12 John, you're on.
13 DR. STEWART: Item Number 4 is repeal of
14 Rule 6C-10.013, Certification Residency for the
15 Appropriated Programs.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 DR. STEWART: Item Number 5, the revised
21 Rule 6C-8.009(1), Definition and Process for
22 Establishing Educational Sites.
23 We have a number of speakers.
24 First is --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Before you --
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1 before you -- we get into that.
2 Governor, this particular issue has a
3 number of speakers. Most of those speakers are
4 here to speak not specifically on the rule, but
5 what would result if the rule passed.
6 But I think that we should look at the --
7 what -- what could result if the rule passed,
8 and take care of that issue first.
9 And that particular issue is one that most
10 of us are aware of. And that is the campus for
11 the University of South Florida in
12 St. Petersburg.
13 There are presently 30 students there.
14 There are presently about 700 students that
15 attend the University of South Florida from
16 Pinellas County. And the community is very
17 interested, as you will hear, if they all get
18 up and speak, in having a campus there.
19 I would like to do this: I think most of
20 us probably agree with the Board of Regents
21 that that is a good place to have a campus for
22 the first two years.
23 And so rather than have the issue of that
24 campus drive the rule that we're going to be
25 talking about, I would like, if I could, to
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1 make a motion that we, as the State Board, vote
2 to preapprove, and, of course, saying that we
3 will approve when, in fact, it would come back
4 to us, that the campus for the University of
5 South Florida at St. Petersburg be approved.
6 And that would be my motion.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is there a
8 timetable, Governor?
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's already
10 there. So as soon as they can come back with
11 the method for us to review it, what we're
12 saying is that we'd approve it. Then we'll --
13 then we'll talk about the rule on timetables.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: So, in other words, the
15 Board of Regents would have to have a meeting,
16 they would --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They have a
18 meeting scheduled in September. At that
19 meeting, they were planning on approving this
20 campus. So they have not approved this campus
21 yet at the Regents. They have a rule pending
22 approval.
23 So what I'm saying is that if they choose
24 to -- there's going to be some alternatives
25 that could come back to us.
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1 One, they could come back with the rule
2 that they have pending. And what I'm saying is
3 that we're sending a message that we will
4 approve it.
5 The other is that they would send back a
6 different rule than they have here today that
7 would allow them to make the decisions on these
8 campuses themselves, with a 30-day appellate
9 process for us, as opposed to us actually have
10 to do a rule.
11 Anybody that wouldn't like the decision
12 made by the Board of Regents could appeal it to
13 us within 30 days. If they didn't, then,
14 of course, it would automatically -- that
15 campus would be approved.
16 That way, we eliminate potential battles
17 between the community colleges and universities
18 and the private colleges, and everybody else
19 that has an interest in where campuses are
20 located.
21 So that's the second issue. Though right
22 now, I would like to let the people in the
23 audience know where we stand in regards to this
24 particular campus.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: A question on -- on
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1 the first issue.
2 I -- I'm under the impression that there is
3 a ceiling on the -- an agreed to ceiling on the
4 number of students that would be participating
5 in this campus?
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I think that
7 the Regents should be able to make the decision
8 on what that is. And I personally feel
9 strongly that --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- they should not
12 have any alternate admits at that campus. And
13 they have about 30 students there now, and
14 I think their goal was about 50.
15 But President Castor could --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, there are --
17 there are concerns, I understand, by those
18 outside of the South Florida campus, as to the
19 ceiling, and also some of the course subjects.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And there apparently
22 have been some agreements. I -- I think if
23 there have been agreements, they ought to be
24 out on the table and on -- and -- and on
25 record.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I -- I don't
2 disagree with that. I think those agreements
3 should carry forward from the Regents when they
4 make that decision.
5 But --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: When it --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you'd like to
8 hear what those are, I think that's a good time
9 to hear them.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I would
11 like to hear what they are.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: But we could still separate
13 this though and do the --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. This --
15 we -- let's talk about right now the campus --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, that's what
17 I'm talking about.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right. And then
19 we'll --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I am not talking
21 about --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I know.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the second part.
24 I'm talking about the first part.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, if I --
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August 24, 1999
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- could, as it
3 relates to that issue, Commissioner, just --
4 will this action today delay South Florida's
5 opening of the campus?
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: South Florida's
7 campus --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're already open.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: They're open.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- is open --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Been open.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- delay them in
13 what they're trying to do.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They are --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: This is --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- operating on
17 the edge we should say.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Easier to be
19 forgiven.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's where we
21 are --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's what I told the
23 students.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Would you --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: They agreed.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- would you
2 please -- maybe we could have either
3 President Castor or the Chancellor explain to
4 us what the agreements are for the Comptroller.
5 MS. CASTOR: Governor, members of the
6 Cabinet, it's a -- it's a thrill to be back
7 here again.
8 Actually this is my first Cabinet meeting
9 since I left some time ago. And it's --
10 there's a ring of familiarity about resolutions
11 and things like that.
12 This -- this is a proposition that we bring
13 to you this morning that we have brought
14 previously to the Board of Regents to expand
15 our St. Petersburg campus to permit lower level
16 students, first- and second-year students.
17 Today -- we opened our doors yesterday, as
18 did all of the State University System. I can
19 assure you, our enrollment was fantastic. We
20 have more freshmen, first time in college
21 students, than we have had in the history of
22 the University of South Florida.
23 That is, in part, as you know, from the
24 mushrooming high school graduates.
25 Commissioner Gallagher, we actually have
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1 probably four times the number of students from
2 Pinellas County in all of our programs.
3 But at the freshman level yesterday, we
4 admitted -- we admitted probably about 700,
5 I think probably at least 500 freshmen out of
6 Pinellas County came directly to USF.
7 What they do is, for the most part, they
8 drive 40 miles to the north Tampa campus. Even
9 though we have the capacity at St. Pete; we
10 have the faculty at St. Pete; we have
11 enthusiastic students, many of who got up this
12 morning at 2:30 and 3:00 to -- to come up to
13 let you know how enthusiastic they are about
14 the expansion of the program.
15 Those students -- we would like to simply
16 make it more convenient, and to give students
17 throughout Pinellas County an opportunity to
18 attend those first two years at the USF campus.
19 Yes, we have, General Milligan, a -- a plan
20 that we have produced that is available to all
21 of you, and to your -- I think your Aides
22 have -- have received it.
23 Our expansion will begin in a small, but
24 determined way. The courses that we will offer
25 are unique. They are learning communities.
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1 The students study together, all of their --
2 take all of their courses together with the
3 same faculty members. It's kind of like a
4 school within a school concept.
5 The programs that we would launch at the
6 campus relate to our strengths at the upper
7 division. We would plan next to have a cohort
8 of education majors who actually start in their
9 first year and matriculate to graduation on
10 that campus.
11 We would also -- we have also proposed --
12 we have a cohort of business majors.
13 Pinellas County, we have worked diligently with
14 the business communities, and our plan is
15 supported by the chambers in south county as
16 well as north county.
17 The Mayor is here, Marty Normile is here
18 from the business partnership; Gus Stavros is
19 here representing our foundation.
20 The areas of greatest need are in
21 management information systems, in finance, and
22 accounting. We would propose to develop
23 learning communities that would start on our
24 campus, and matriculate to -- to graduation.
25 We can't, and do not propose, that we
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1 simply launch into all of -- all programs. We
2 would build on the strengths that already exist
3 on that campus.
4 Our first proposal would be to increase our
5 learning community to about 150 students; then
6 semester by semester, we would add.
7 But I think it's a thoughtful developmental
8 program for that campus, and would meet the
9 needs of Pinellas County residents.
10 I would like to introduce a few of the
11 people who are here today: Bill Heller, who is
12 the Dean of the campus, who has really been out
13 there giving good leadership.
14 Connie Cone is here, who is a former
15 City Council member, and also now a member of
16 PEPC.
17 And I think that there are several people
18 who would like to speak, including the Mayor,
19 David Fischer; as well as Senator Sebesta, who
20 has been -- who has been one of our supporters.
21 But I'd be happy to try to respond to any
22 questions that you might have.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Then you're saying
24 that there really is no limit on the
25 matriculation in -- to that campus.
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1 MS. CASTOR: Well, I -- we have set our own
2 limit. I don't know that there is any -- that
3 you would want to impose on us a limit that
4 none --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I'm not --
6 MS. CASTOR: -- of the other
7 institutions --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I'm not
9 suggesting --
10 MS. CASTOR: -- in the state have. But we
11 have set our own limit --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. I'm not
13 suggesting that a limit should be imposed.
14 MS. CASTOR: Yeah.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But I was led to
16 believe that there had been some agreement as
17 to a limit. Perhaps I was misled.
18 I also understand that there was an
19 agreement with Eckerd College that certain --
20 certain programs would not be taught at the --
21 at the campus.
22 MS. CASTOR: I -- I made that commitment.
23 And --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'd --
25 MS. CASTOR: -- we have put that --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I would just
2 like --
3 MS. CASTOR: -- in our --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- to know what that
5 is --
6 MS. CASTOR: -- proposal. Yeah.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- on -- for the
8 record.
9 MS. CASTOR: Yeah.
10 We have included that in our -- in our
11 proposal. One of the programs of strength at
12 Eckerd College is marine science. And even
13 though we have a graduate -- an outstanding
14 graduate program in marine science, we have
15 committed that we will not develop a
16 marine science program.
17 We do not want to compete with
18 Eckerd College. About a third of their
19 students are enrolled in that program, so we're
20 not going to do that.
21 They are also interested -- they have
22 strength in international business. And I
23 assured President Armacost that we would not
24 develop a program in international business.
25 He seemed satisfied with those commitments,
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1 and we've put it in writing. Although we don't
2 have an interlocal agreement or anything, but
3 we have made that commitment.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- if I could,
8 Madam President, if -- if we do as the
9 Commissioner has said, which I -- I tend to
10 think he's on the right track, basically defer
11 this -- this rule today, come back with a
12 different rule that's kind of a compromise, but
13 also have a -- I guess a conceptual vote here
14 today to -- to approve what you're asking, does
15 that, in any way, give you a problem, or --
16 MS. CASTOR: It will make me very happy,
17 and I think it will make our students and the
18 campus --
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
20 MS. CASTOR: -- community --
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Just wanted to make
22 sure.
23 MS. CASTOR: -- very excited.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we ask the other
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1 selected numbers of people we -- since you've
2 traveled so far, and started so early, maybe a
3 couple of the students that may have an opinion
4 or two.
5 MS. CASTOR: Oh, they would love to speak.
6 Yes.
7 Dean Heller.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: You don't have to, if you
9 don't want to.
10 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: They'd love to,
11 Governor.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know that the politicians
13 will speak. I know that I don't have to ask
14 the Mayor and the Senator to speak. But --
15 MR. LENAHAN: Good morning, gentlemen.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Give your name.
17 MR. LENAHAN: My name is Tim Lenahan. I'm
18 the recently elected President of our campus of
19 student government.
20 I'd -- thank you very much for the
21 opportunity to -- to appear here before you
22 today. And I appreciate your consideration of
23 our question.
24 We are extremely enthusiastic about the
25 opportunity of being able to expand from a -- a
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1 two-year to a four-year university for a lot of
2 different reasons. Initially and foremost,
3 it's good for us. It'd give us the opportunity
4 to bring a lot of life to our campus.
5 Traditionally as a -- a two-year upper
6 division school, we have a lot of commuter
7 students and a lot of students who are of a
8 nontraditional age, which kind of takes a bit
9 away from -- from what you might consider the
10 traditional campus atmosphere.
11 And bringing some -- some younger, newer
12 students like -- such as our -- our learning
13 community and the proposed freshmen onto campus
14 would give us an opportunity to expand some
15 traditional activities and so forth that we'd
16 really get a lot out of. Also to expand in
17 other ways.
18 Our -- our campus is -- is devilishly
19 underused when you consider the -- the
20 overcrowding that they've experienced at
21 Florida State and UF, and so forth, with --
22 with full classrooms and people sitting up
23 against the walls, it's almost hard to believe
24 that we have empty classrooms for, you know,
25 most of the day and evening.
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1 So that's definitely one of the
2 considerations that we have in mind.
3 We'd -- we'd also love the opportunity to
4 be able to provide the educational services
5 that we feel are necessary in Pinellas County
6 as one of the fastest growing counties in the
7 state. It's the largest county, as far as I
8 know, without a school of -- of considerable
9 size, as far as a four-year school goes.
10 And we have a lot of -- lot of fast growing
11 technical and upper level jobs that could be
12 served through our being a -- a four-year
13 institution.
14 President Castor mentioned that you have
15 a -- a 40-minute drive from -- you know,
16 40 miles from -- from where we are up to Tampa.
17 And it's not only the -- the 40 miles, it's
18 also a big geographic difference from
19 St. Petersburg to Tampa. You have to actually
20 cross the Howard Franklin Bridge, which is a --
21 a nightmare in traffic, for anyone who's been
22 down in that area.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did Senator Sebesta bring
24 that up -- tell you to bring that up?
25 MR. LENAHAN: They're probably looking for
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1 road money, or something also.
2 It's -- and you can count on an accident
3 every day. And it's an utter disaster.
4 And -- and a lot of -- a lot of students,
5 like I -- like I mentioned, from our campuses
6 are nontraditional students. So a lot of us
7 work during the day. And trying to make
8 6:00 o'clock classes in Tampa when you leave
9 work at 4:30 or 5:00 in St. Petersburg through
10 that nightmare of a traffic situation that
11 we've created is -- isn't a lot of fun.
12 We can do that, we can -- we can have a lot
13 of opportunities to ease some of the -- some of
14 the pressures on the rest of our state
15 universities --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent.
17 MR. LENAHAN: -- and hopefully we'll --
18 with your support, we'll be able to do it.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
20 Would you like to say something?
21 MS. LEITNER: Sure. I was just going to
22 wait till he --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just push him out of the
24 way.
25 MS. LEITNER: Hi. My name's
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1 Jennifer Leitner. Thanks for letting me speak
2 today in behalf of USF.
3 I just want to let you know that -- how
4 important this campus is to me. I'm one of the
5 first freshmen there in the learning community,
6 and going there has been a wonderful
7 experience.
8 I've been able to stay at home because
9 I'm -- I'm younger than most of the people that
10 go to the campus. I've been able to hold down
11 a full-time job, and I also hold the student
12 government -- an office in student government
13 there.
14 It's been a wonderful experience. I love
15 the campus. There is a lot of different ages
16 there, so it has a really good mentoringship
17 there. I get a -- I have really good contact
18 with older students, and they can give me a
19 perspective on college life.
20 I think that this would be the best thing
21 for the University, and Pinellas County in
22 general because -- since Pinellas County being
23 one of the largest in the region, we don't have
24 the four-year comprehensive opportunity.
25 So making USF the four-year would give us
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1 an opportunity -- we do have the two plus two
2 program. But I know -- it was my choice, I
3 wanted to go to a four-year and stay in the
4 same school.
5 I think that's really important. I think
6 that's how you stay away from being just a
7 number, and you actually get a name at your
8 campus.
9 Okay. Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
11 MS. DUNN: Hi.
12 Thank you also for letting me speak.
13 My name's Erin Dunn. I'm former student
14 government president. Just graduated.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
16 MS. DUNN: But I'm one of those, in
17 contrast to Jenn.
18 USF St. Petersburg has a -- a real
19 diversity of students there. And as we have
20 continued to grow, and as we -- we continue to
21 welcome the freshmen and the sophmores onto the
22 campus, like Jenn said, she's got a chance to
23 interact with older students.
24 But it's also been a -- a balance for those
25 of us who have returned back to school after
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1 many years.
2 I am one of the ones who have transferred
3 from the junior college. For me, that was my
4 choice. If I was given that choice again, I
5 would do it again.
6 But we need to have that opportunity for
7 the freshmen who do not want to travel that --
8 that distance, and also for freshmen who don't
9 want to go out of our area. And it -- it makes
10 a difference.
11 And what we're trying to do is give back to
12 our own community. We're finding out the needs
13 from our business community, who are very
14 supportive of us, what they are asking for, and
15 we're just asking for the opportunity to be
16 able to give it back to them.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
18 MS. DUNN: Thank you.
19 MR. PATTERSON: Excuse me.
20 My name is Thomas Patterson and I am a
21 freshman this year. And I have just joined the
22 learning community. There is 50 other students
23 with me.
24 This was the only way that I could get out
25 of making that long commute across the bay was
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1 to join the learning community.
2 If I would have known, and had the
3 opportunity just to attend as a freshman at the
4 University of South Florida, that would have
5 been taken. And a lot of my friends feel the
6 same way.
7 They've asked me to come here today,
8 present that. Because there is a lot of people
9 that they don't have the financial need to go
10 all the way over to Tampa, to pay for housing
11 and everything. So they were forced to go to
12 JC.
13 Well, they would rather have -- spend
14 four years at one university, than keep
15 switching back and forth.
16 So all I've got to say is, we have a
17 private school, which is Eckerd, we have a JC,
18 we even have a techischool -- technical school,
19 which is P-Tech. We don't have the four-year
20 university. St. Pete needs one of those now.
21 Thank you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
23 Any -- anybody else? I was just joking
24 about the politicians not wanting to speak.
25 Mayor, if you -- would you like to come
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1 speak?
2 MR. FISCHER: Thank you.
3 Thank you, Governor, and Cabinet members.
4 I'm in your business, too, and so I know when
5 things look like they're going okay, you don't
6 want to say too much.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Jump out the
9 window.
10 MR. FISCHER: But -- but I just want to
11 tell you that I'm armed with the -- with
12 letters and desires of every Mayor in
13 Pinellas County. The Chairman of our
14 County Commission hand carried me a letter in
15 case it didn't get faxed to you in time.
16 They're all just real high on this, because
17 they know that our citizens really deserve the
18 opportunity, which you just heard a minute ago
19 from these students here.
20 We are the only county that doesn't have
21 this opportunity. And a public four-year
22 university experience is just paramount to us.
23 So to keep it short, I really appreciate
24 your consideration in this, and appreciate your
25 time.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
2 MR. FISCHER: Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
4 Senator?
5 SENATOR SEBESTA: Sure.
6 Good morning, Governor, Cabinet members.
7 Couple of points that I was listening very
8 intently and did not hear today. One are those
9 high school seniors in Pinellas County, in both
10 north and south county, but particularly in
11 south county that don't have any means of
12 getting over to Tampa to USF.
13 If you think about this for a second, those
14 kids -- many kids do not have automobiles. So
15 they must rely on public transportation. I
16 can't imagine taking a bus from south
17 St. Petersburg all the way to north Tampa.
18 That would be a bloody nightmare. I just can't
19 imagine doing that.
20 And the other thing that might be
21 interesting is with this campus in
22 St. Petersburg, which obviously is in great
23 demand by high school seniors throughout
24 Pinellas County, both north and south, it may
25 very well open the door to some educational
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1 opportunities in Manatee County, because that
2 is just across the bay. And you could drive
3 from Bradenton, as an example, to the campus in
4 St. Petersburg, probably in about 20 minutes.
5 So this is a good move. We urge your
6 support of this. And thank you very much for
7 your time.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And, Governor, to
10 clarify what my motion is. This is a
11 conceptual approval for the University of
12 South Florida to offer low level classes at its
13 St. Petersburg campus.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
16 second.
17 Any more discussion?
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay. Now --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all for coming
21 up.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And now --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now the --
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we have --
25 This -- the rule that is before you now is
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1 a rule that came from the last Regent's meeting
2 which took place on -- I think the 15th and
3 16th of July.
4 And it is a rule that basically has the
5 power for lower level freshmen/sophomore year
6 campuses to be set by the Board of Regents
7 without coming to the Cabinet for rule changes,
8 which is what exists today.
9 Today it is required that all the campuses
10 that have been approved, with the exception of
11 this one that's open, have been required to
12 come with a rule change from the Board of
13 Regents to us.
14 This particular rule that is before us
15 right now basically, if we approve this, we are
16 abdicating the responsibility and the oversight
17 of the State Board of Education to the
18 Board of Regents to let them set what campuses
19 they want open for the freshmen/sophomore
20 anywhere they choose to do it.
21 Now, I have a -- sort of a -- a real
22 mixture here. And the mixture is that as a
23 member of the Regents, I'm in favor of this.
24 As a member of the Community College Board,
25 I'm concerned about it.
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1 As a member of this Board, I'm also
2 concerned that when, in fact, there is a
3 disagreement between the private colleges,
4 which we just talked about from
5 General Milligan, and -- and there's maybe a
6 threat or a perceived threat with the community
7 colleges, which is why I'm concerned being a
8 member of that Board -- that if we eliminate
9 the ability for an appellate process to take
10 place at this State Board of Education, I think
11 we're going to end up with battles that take
12 place for good, or for bad, in other venues,
13 probably legislative.
14 And I don't think that's necessary.
15 I think in most cases, the Regents will be
16 responsible and move campuses, much like this
17 one, that are needed and -- and make a lot of
18 sense, and will make the appropriate
19 adjustments that will see to it that everyone
20 is served correctly.
21 However, when, in fact, an entity, be it
22 the private college system or the community
23 college system, feels that they didn't get
24 treated fairly, I think they need to have a
25 place wherein which they can make that
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1 argument.
2 And so my desire here would be that we have
3 a rule change -- other than this one, that just
4 immediately gives that power without any review
5 to this Board, a look-see.
6 Now, we're in a little bit of a rock and a
7 hard place here, because Rule 240.203 states
8 that with respect to the State University
9 System, the State Board of Education shall,
10 one, approve all rules adopted by the
11 Board of Regents before they are filed with the
12 Department of State.
13 However, if any rule is not disapproved by
14 the Board of Education within 60 days of its
15 adoption by the Board of Regents, the rule
16 shall immediately be filed with the Department
17 of State.
18 And so we're sitting here with the 60 days
19 ending prior to the next scheduled Regents'
20 meeting, and also prior to -- prior to the next
21 meeting that we have.
22 So I do think that it's possible for us to
23 refer the rule back to the Board -- our lawyers
24 tell me that we could refer the rule back to
25 the Board of Regents for their reconsideration,
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1 and -- and ask them to bring it back to us to
2 the next Cabinet meeting on September -- we'd
3 bring it up on September 28th.
4 And so I would like to also recommend that
5 we add a -- to the rule that they have, a
6 30-day appellate process wherein any citizen
7 that would have -- believe they have a reason
8 why, which would -- could be community
9 colleges, private college, or any one -- why
10 the campus should not be opened, would have the
11 opportunity within 30 days to file an
12 appellate -- a request with -- with us at the
13 Department of Education, and we would put it on
14 the agenda, and this Board would take it up for
15 final approval.
16 I think that -- that way we allow the
17 Board of Regents to do what I think they should
18 have the right to look at, and approve campuses
19 that make sense, but also cover the other
20 colleges and universities that exist in this
21 state to see to it that they get treated fairly
22 also.
23 And so I guess it's open for discussion on
24 what -- what you all want to do, and I'll be
25 glad to -- after we have some discussion, make
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1 the motion that I choose to. And we may have
2 some people that like to speak to it.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sure we -- I'm sure we
4 do.
5 Commissioner Gallagher, are you talking --
6 when you say any person, or -- is that what you
7 said, or any entity?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I mean, we
9 could -- we could fine-tune it. But I --
10 I think you -- when you -- it's one of those
11 things that if someone wants to speak to the
12 issue to the appellate board, I think you
13 almost have to open it up to anyone.
14 So it's --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: So any --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's one of
17 those things that it'll happen within 30 days.
18 We'll schedule it almost on an immediate basis,
19 and so we're not going to have any long -- it's
20 not like rulemaking. Whereas rulemaking, it
21 could take three or four months.
22 This is one thing that, bottom line is, the
23 person appeals it, 30 days is up, it'll be at
24 the next meeting that we'd have, and we'd hear
25 whoever wanted to discuss -- discuss pros and
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1 cons, and -- and act accordingly.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sure the Chancellor
3 wants to speak, and there may be others as
4 well.
5 But can you explain what the current law is
6 as it relates to these other --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the private colleges I
9 assume can do what they want, because they're
10 in the -- the marketplace. But the community
11 colleges, for example, is there a -- an
12 appellate process to review their activities?
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, it's -- it's
14 an interesting situation. The -- the
15 community colleges, when they want to offer the
16 top two years, are required to -- to go and
17 have a hearing in front of PEPC.
18 I wouldn't have a problem if the-- if their
19 rule was changed, and there was an appellate
20 process to come here also.
21 But the reason there isn't is because when,
22 in fact, a university chooses to open the lower
23 two years, that is a cost factor to the state,
24 because we subsidize the education of our
25 students, whether they're in freshman,
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1 sophomore, junior, or senior.
2 When, in fact, a community college makes a
3 deal with another outside university for the
4 second two years to be used at their campus,
5 there really isn't a cost to us. We don't
6 subsidize those other two years. We may offer
7 class space, and things like that, and a place
8 to register. But it's not a -- an actual cost
9 per student to us.
10 So that's sort of the difference.
11 Now, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't
12 oversee and make sure that it's not a paper
13 diploma you're getting or something like that.
14 But it's not to the community college's
15 advantage to be having paper diplomas there.
16 But I wouldn't have a problem -- and
17 I think it probably should be a responsibility
18 of this Board to have an appeal in regard to
19 those also.
20 I -- I think that what's good for the goose
21 is good for the gander. I think there's a --
22 there's a movement, in all honesty, which I
23 disagree with -- I'm in the same exact -- or
24 the same opposite position serving on the two
25 boards when it comes to having bachelor's
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1 degrees issued by the community colleges.
2 There are community colleges in this state
3 that are adamant about their ability to issue
4 bachelor's degrees. In other words, their last
5 two years.
6 Personally, I think as much as too many
7 campuses of the first two years is a detriment
8 to our two plus two system; too many campus--
9 or any campuses on the -- on the other side, in
10 my opinion, as a member of the
11 Community Colleges, I'm against the community
12 colleges offering bachelor's degrees.
13 So I'm sort of the bad guy on both ones --
14 on both boards, trying to have them balance
15 with each other, and not end up in what I would
16 call a range war in regards to who's going to
17 grab what students.
18 And the bottom line is, when you're talking
19 about these things, you're talking about money
20 and you're talking about who -- who attracts
21 the students.
22 So that's sort of where I come from on it.
23 And --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- I hope that
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1 answers your questions.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Chancellor Herbert, would
3 you like to speak?
4 DR. HERBERT: Thank you, Governor.
5 Governor Bush, and members of the Board of
6 Education, I do appreciate the opportunity to
7 make a few comments about this issue. It is
8 one that is of extreme importance to our
9 system.
10 And let me just, if I could, briefly place
11 all of this into context for you, and so that
12 you understand what it is we're trying to do.
13 And I'd like to respond also to the -- to
14 the fundamental question that has been raised
15 about the importance of having arbiters in the
16 process.
17 The existing rule, which we ask you -- have
18 asked you to amend, was developed by the
19 State University System over 12 years ago as
20 the Board of Regents sought to provide a
21 framework for meeting both its programmatic
22 planning, and also its coordination program
23 development responsibilities.
24 The rule provided a vehicle for
25 categorizing the sites on which we would offer
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1 a wide array of degree programs to meet the
2 higher education needs of Floridians, again,
3 throughout the state.
4 The Board of Regents believes that the
5 unnecessary rules and regulations that many
6 agencies have to deal with stifle efficiency,
7 creativity, innovation, and also the
8 responsiveness of our agency as well as others.
9 And one of the things that we have
10 attempted to do over the course of the past
11 several years is to take a very hard look at
12 all of our rules, and -- and make a hard
13 decision as to which ones are absolutely
14 essential.
15 We have eliminated one-third of our rules,
16 we have revised another 13, we have gone
17 through and rescinded 25 percent of our
18 administrative policies. Again, all of this
19 with a goal to -- to assuring that our system
20 is more responsive to the people of Florida.
21 Our strategic plan has now become the
22 guiding document for setting forth the
23 long-range plans of the State University
24 System. Our Board rules and policies have been
25 guided to -- have been adopted to guide
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1 day-to-day operations.
2 As in the private sector, we've taken these
3 steps, again, to enhance our capacity to adapt
4 to rapidly changing needs of both citizens and
5 communities that we serve.
6 So what is the issue before you?
7 In my view, it is really the response to a
8 very simple question related to how the State
9 University System responds to expanding and/or
10 shifting community needs, such as those in
11 Pinellas County.
12 The question is: Should the
13 Board of Regents be able to fulfill its
14 decision making responsibilities about the
15 location on which lower division programs and
16 courses will be delivered without State Board
17 of Education review of a rule change.
18 Our proposed rule revision would allow the
19 Board of Regents, as you have heard, to approve
20 a university's request to offer lower division
21 courses at a branch campus, provided that the
22 request meets new and specific criteria related
23 to need, and also to delivery capacity.
24 The request then must be reviewed by PEPC;
25 consultation, as you have heard today, with
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1 area community colleges and private
2 institutions must be conducted. With
3 implementation of these new and stringent
4 planning policies, which are currently not in
5 place, we believe that -- that there is -- is
6 much less room for conflict over the long-term.
7 So why should you seriously consider the
8 Board of Regents' proposal?
9 I believe that there are some very simple
10 reasons. First is that our proposal enhances
11 the capacity of the Board of Regents to fulfill
12 its academic planning responsibilities at all
13 levels in a timely and more structured fashion.
14 Keep in mind that the Board of Regents now
15 makes decisions about the establishment of new
16 undergraduate, Master's, and doctoral programs
17 without rule changes. It determines the sites
18 on which these programs will be offered,
19 without rule changes; it can close campuses,
20 without rule changes; it can eliminate degree
21 programs, without rule changes.
22 In fact, because of its own decisions a
23 decade ago, the only academic programmatic
24 decision for which the Board of Regents must go
25 through a rule change process is in the limited
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1 lower division branch campus area.
2 Our argument is that this self-imposed
3 reduction of Board of Regents' authority no
4 longer makes sense when placed into the context
5 of the total number of students served on our
6 branch campuses, the limited number of such
7 campuses, which are practicable from a cost,
8 from a need, and delivery capac-- perspective.
9 And also the ability of the Legislature and
10 the Governor to impact the implementation of
11 lower division delivery decisions annually
12 through the budget process.
13 Second, the proposed Board rule provides
14 for a system of checks and balances and reviews
15 which our current rule does not offer.
16 It provides, as I indicated earlier, a PEPC
17 review. All of our discussions are held in
18 public, there are clear safeguards that are
19 sure that the Board of Regents will analyze and
20 make thoughtful decisions.
21 The third is that there really is an
22 arbiter right now in the State University
23 System's current lower division decision making
24 process. And we -- our Board thinks that
25 another's not necessary.
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1 Specifically, the Legislature and the
2 Governor are now, and will always be, the
3 arbiters as to whether expanded lower division
4 enrollment growth will be supported on one of
5 our branch campuses.
6 The Legislature appropriates; and the
7 Governor, through the option of the line item
8 veto, authorizes lower level student enrollment
9 growth in our -- in our system.
10 In the context of the annual enrollment
11 growth funds we receive, there really should be
12 very little concern that our system is going to
13 rapidly expand enrollments at our branch
14 campuses.
15 We hope that you will have confidence in
16 the judgment of our Governor and the
17 Legislature to continue playing this arbiter
18 role as the Board of Regents assumes its
19 responsibilities. We're convinced that they
20 will do so, and will take that responsibility
21 seriously, that they will listen to the
22 community colleges, they will listen to us,
23 they will listen to the independent
24 institutions, and also that they will listen to
25 the people of this state.
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1 And if I could just make one final
2 observation, and that relates to the importance
3 of looking at this whole issue in a broader,
4 higher educational policy context.
5 My hope is that you will do that.
6 Implicit in the arguments that you have
7 heard about this matter is the assertion that
8 what we're proposing is a threat to the
9 two plus two system. I must tell you that we
10 do not share that belief.
11 But if you do reject the proposition that
12 the Governor and the Legislature are natural
13 arbiters in matters such as this, if you're
14 convinced that the two plus two system is
15 threatened because of the Board of Regents'
16 proposal, the logical policy outcome -- the
17 logical policy outcome must be that the State
18 Board of Education should immediately take
19 action to assure that you review and approve
20 each of the following:
21 First, lower division programs that are
22 offered by the State University System on
23 branch campuses; second, all upper division
24 programs offered by independent and out of
25 state institutions on our community college
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1 campuses. And there are more and more of the
2 latter. And I think that there are some
3 serious problems with some of those
4 institutions.
5 And third, proposals from community
6 colleges related to their offering four-year
7 degree programs.
8 I would suggest to you that in the final
9 analysis, if you're serious -- if you're really
10 concerned about two plus two, the latter
11 two areas are even a greater significance
12 simply by virtue of the number of students.
13 And -- and one example. We have a brand
14 new university in Fort Myers, two years old.
15 And now what we're seeing occur on the
16 community college campus is the community
17 college inviting multiple universities, some
18 from -- some from out of state, to offer degree
19 programs on that campus.
20 If, in fact, that is the way we want to
21 provide education down there, we don't need to
22 have a tenth university. But this Board has
23 nothing to say about that at the present time.
24 And I believe that that is inconsistent
25 with the concern that -- that is being
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1 articulated about two plus two.
2 And so if this Board is serious about
3 fulfilling those obligations, I believe that it
4 must do so, it must make very clear that --
5 that we're going to -- to continue to make this
6 a matter of very high priority.
7 Thank you very much, Governor.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Chancellor.
10 Yes.
11 TREASURER NELSON: -- I agree with you,
12 Chancellor.
13 I think you have articulated it very well.
14 Now, let me ask to you, Governor, and to
15 you, Commissioner, would -- would changing the
16 appellate process so that it would come from
17 PEPC to the Board, would that accommodate the
18 Chancellor's concern?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: On -- on the
20 community colleges or on --
21 TREASURER NELSON: On the --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- this rule here?
23 TREASURER NELSON: -- community college.
24 In the Fort Myers situation, as he just stated.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, I have --
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1 you heard me say, I'm -- as much as I'm sort
2 of -- differ from the Regents on this issue, I
3 also differ from the community colleges on --
4 on this other issue.
5 So I do think that those upper division
6 agreements that are made with community
7 colleges, even though they don't necessarily
8 cost us as a state money, should be reviewed,
9 and maybe primarily to see that they are real
10 and quality institutions that we're allowing on
11 our campuses. I mean, there should be somebody
12 oversee those.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner, could I ask
14 someone from the community colleges if they're
15 here?
16 Maybe we can --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Send --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- take the Chancellor's
19 very good last statement about policy issues --
20 Yes.
21 MR. FURLONG: Governor, I'm Tom -- and
22 Cabinet members, I'm Tom Furlong, the Academic
23 Office of the State Board of Community
24 Colleges. Thank you for the opportunity as
25 well.
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1 I -- I mean, two or three quick things.
2 The -- we agree with the Commissioner's
3 approach of splitting the issue on USF and --
4 and the rule. I mean, one thing that's been
5 clear in the Regent's vote to move forward with
6 the USF proposal was that it would go to PEPC.
7 And they're considering it on September 13th.
8 We just got the proposal this week. A lot
9 of the safeguards we had talked to them about
10 are in that proposal. But we'll have that
11 opportunity to look at it and make -- and be
12 part of the recommendation process to you.
13 I think you've got it scheduled for
14 September 28th. So I think that's a separate
15 issue.
16 On the issue of the rule, however, the --
17 we -- we support the PEPC recommendation you
18 have in front of you and the Commissioner's
19 recommendation really to go -- for this to go
20 to the Board and to have an appeals process.
21 We understand the desire to have a --
22 because of the time it takes to adopt a rule,
23 to streamline that somewhat by having this
24 appeals process, rather than a full-blown rule
25 step after the Regent's action.
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1 But the examp-- one example I'll give, and
2 it's a very positive example, is if we're
3 working with the University of Central Florida
4 and Brevard Community College and Palm Bay or
5 in Brev-- in Cocoa Beach, and we're building a
6 joint library and we're building joint student
7 services center, and we're doing all this work
8 together to make that a true two plus two, not
9 just what we've always bragged about. We've
10 always been the best in the country on two plus
11 two, I think.
12 But now we're really trying to make it as
13 seamless as possible on a local community so
14 you don't have that commute to Orlando,
15 et cetera.
16 If in the middle of that process, the rules
17 were to change, and we were to say, okay,
18 really that's going to be a lower division
19 operation of the University of Central Florida
20 as well, you can see where the joint planning
21 could be thrown out of kilter.
22 I think we'd work with the Regents, and
23 that would not occur. So, therefore, the rule
24 is okay. But what if it did occur, we'd have
25 an appeals process so --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What about the --
2 MR. FURLONG: -- it's a pretty --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- quest--
4 MR. FURLONG: -- essential stuff.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: What about the --
6 MR. FURLONG: The private --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, what about the
8 question -- I can see why you might be in favor
9 of the Board of Regents having --
10 MR. FURLONG: I understand.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to go through this.
12 MR. FURLONG: I understand.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: But what about the
14 community colleges having to do the same thing
15 for their --
16 MR. FURLONG: I --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- affiliations with
18 out-of-state colleges --
19 MR. FURLONG: Two --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- as was mentioned, or the
21 expansion to four-year degrees? Would you also
22 accept a similar kind of process where the
23 State Board would --
24 MR. FURLONG: I think -- I think we'd have
25 to work the specifics out. But the answer
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1 would be yes.
2 And in -- in the bill that passed,
3 Senate Bill 765, which is the only place where
4 there was going to be dollars to work with the
5 private colleges, that the dollars were vetoed.
6 But the -- the bill passed, as you know,
7 Governor.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, I know.
9 MR. FURLONG: And -- the bill -- the
10 bill -- the bill stayed in effect, and the
11 Commission -- Dr. Proctor is here today -- the
12 Commission is looking at -- will be looking at
13 proposals this year to put together part of the
14 package for next year's budget request.
15 That bill provides that any proposal from a
16 community college for a need for baccalaureate
17 in their area would go to PEPC, PEPC would work
18 with the University System and with private
19 colleges to attempt to address that
20 baccalaureate need. And the dollars would only
21 flow if, indeed, that process occurred. And
22 PEPC, of course, is an advisory body to you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Uh-hum.
24 MR. FURLONG: There's another thing out
25 there that the Chancellor mentioned, and
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1 I think it's fair to be brought up is if it's
2 just a facility deal -- if Stetson University
3 comes to Daytona Beach and asks the college
4 there, instead of renting a Holiday Inn for
5 class space, can we rent your place for class
6 space, that's where we do have the authority
7 without coming forward.
8 On the other hand, if those are going to
9 become a major thing in the state, and there
10 are ten or eleven community colleges doing that
11 now, clearly that needs to become part of the
12 planning process for enrollment.
13 And we -- we would support that.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: All right. We
15 probably should hear from PEPC.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
17 MR. FURLONG: Yes.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: The middleman.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The middleman.
20 DR. PROCTOR: Thank you very much.
21 We raised the issue because of the impact
22 on all sectors. I want you to know that we are
23 now collecting all the agreements that
24 community colleges have with anyone offering
25 programs on their campuses.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Good.
2 DR. PROCTOR: I met with the community
3 college presidents at their last meeting.
4 We're getting those -- I'd be glad to bring you
5 a summary at your very next meeting of those
6 agreements so you can take a look at what is
7 currently going on.
8 I think the Chancellor has a good point,
9 and we need to look and make sure that there is
10 quality assurance for the -- for the students
11 in our state. Some of these are very
12 entrepreneurial, and we may have a concern with
13 them. But we are already in the process of
14 doing that.
15 We raise this issue on the rule because
16 there's only one statutory coordinating body
17 for public education in the State of Florida,
18 and that's the State Board of Education.
19 The rest of it is -- I won't say totally
20 fragmented, but could be somewhat fragmented as
21 we approach the future in higher education.
22 We raise that for your consideration.
23 Since you are the State Board, we wanted to
24 make sure you were aware of the ramifications
25 of the rule change.
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1 I think the suggestions that have been made
2 here today are very good, and very productive
3 suggestions relative to how we operate higher
4 education in the university system, and with
5 the community colleges also.
6 I'll be glad to answer any questions that
7 you have.
8 And let me just kind of on the record. We
9 treated this as two totally different issues.
10 We just received the same proposal, and like
11 was mentioned earlier, we have scheduled a
12 meeting so we can get our input to the
13 Board of Regents in a very timely fashion, as
14 we discussed at the last meeting with the
15 Chancellor and the Commissioner.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
17 TREASURER NELSON: As I understand the
18 gentleman's comments, you think it would be
19 helpful for us to have a future discussion
20 as -- sitting as the State Board of Education
21 over the fact situation as outlined by the
22 Chancellor of -- in the case of Fort Myers, of
23 having a -- a clash of competing interests
24 between the tenth university and the
25 community college there.
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1 Is that what your recommendation is --
2 DR. PROCTOR: I think --
3 TREASURER NELSON: -- to bring it --
4 DR. PROCTOR: -- so also --
5 TREASURER NELSON: -- back to the Board?
6 DR. PROCTOR: -- that I -- I've talked,
7 and -- and we have not been able to arrange a
8 summer schedule. I've talked with the
9 Executive Director of the Community College
10 System and the Chancellor about sitting down
11 with the folks in Fort Myers.
12 I have some concerns about what is going on
13 there. You know, that is the newest
14 university, and we're building down there. And
15 certainly, you know, that's a very important
16 part of higher education in the state of
17 Florida.
18 And I'll be glad with everyone, to go down
19 and sit down with the entities down there and
20 kind of explain the situation.
21 TREASURER NELSON: Could we have a
22 discussion in the future on that, Governor,
23 then --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely. And I --
25 TREASURER NELSON: -- put it on the agenda?
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think the Chancellor's
2 point is very well taken. But there is some --
3 there are some responsibilities attached to
4 this. If we are going to accept this
5 responsibility, we need to take it seriously.
6 And my only concern would be that we don't
7 create another layer --
8 DR. PROCTOR: Right.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- of approval, that --
10 that we -- that there -- that the process be
11 when there are disagreements --
12 DR. PROCTOR: Right.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that we would --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- somehow be in play.
16 Because we have a Board of Regents, we have
17 a community college board statewide, and
18 each -- each community college has a board.
19 We're trusting them to shape the policies.
20 Only when there is disagreement it seems should
21 we -- should we come into play.
22 And I -- I would hope that all this stuff
23 could be resolved before we would do it. I --
24 I mean, I -- I -- I -- one -- I do disagree,
25 Adam, a little bit about the Governor,
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1 obviously, has some role in this.
2 But to line item veto the entire university
3 budget, which would be what I would have to do
4 to influence the policy.
5 After what I did last -- three or four
6 months ago, I hope I don't have to ever come
7 close to doing that again.
8 That's an influence such like saying that
9 you've got a nuclear weapon in the silo,
10 you know, for -- for a nose bleed.
11 So --
12 DR. PROCTOR: Thank you very much.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor, let me
14 just let everybody here know what this rule is,
15 and what I would recommend.
16 The rules -- the new language is that the
17 lower division courses are offered only on the
18 main campus of each university, unless the
19 university receives specific Board of Regents
20 approval to offer lower division courses at a
21 branch campus center or site.
22 Approval will be based on a consideration
23 of the following.
24 And I will say that the Regents did -- the
25 language I'm about to read right now did add
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1 that at my request. So -- and I -- I --
2 hopefully they didn't think I was going to just
3 say, okay, that's fine, and now -- when I'm on
4 this Board I'm for it. And if that was the
5 impression, I'll stand corrected.
6 But they -- they did agree to add:
7 Approval will be based on consideration of the
8 following.
9 It didn't originally have this in there, by
10 the way.
11 The university's mission and assessment of
12 student demand, availability of necessary
13 facilities, equipment and faculty, discussion
14 with the educational institutions impacted by
15 the proposed course offerings, and PEPC's
16 review of those course offerings.
17 Now, what I think I'm hearing here is that
18 we should ask the Regents to do the following,
19 add the following to that -- that's the
20 existing rule.
21 I would suggest that we send it back and
22 ask them to add to that: The Board of Regents'
23 decision may be appealed to the State Board of
24 Education within 30 days of the decision.
25 If no appeal is filed, the proposal shall
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1 become effective 30 days from the date of the
2 Board of Regents' decision of approval.
3 That really does nothing to these
4 decisions, except the 30 days after that date
5 it goes into effect, or there's a meeting which
6 we will have within two weeks of that.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And so if we have
9 a consensus there, I'll be glad to make a
10 motion that does that.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I just have
12 one question.
13 What happens during the recess? We have a
14 30-day recess where we're out for, like,
15 six weeks during the -- this year it was --
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, then -- then
17 they'd have to wait six weeks instead of 30 --
18 instead of four.
19 They are recognizing that we do have
20 30 days off every year would probably mean they
21 get it to us before that.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
23 There is a motion.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let -- let me
25 clarify so that we know that the motion is.
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1 And that is that I move that we refer the
2 rule back to the Board of Regents for their
3 reconsideration, and that they bring it back to
4 the Cabinet on September 28th with the added
5 language.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
7 could we ask the Chancellor what he thinks
8 about this?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Chancellor, do you want to
10 tell you what -- tell us what you think about
11 it again?
12 DR. HERBERT: I think it's a wonderful
13 recommendation, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
15 Is that satisfactory?
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
17 Pretty straightforward.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
19 Is there a second?
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor of the motion,
22 signify by saying aye.
23 THE CABINET: Aye.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
25 It's approved.
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1 DR. STEWART: Item Number 6 is 6--
2 6D-16.002, the Human Resource Management and
3 Development.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Go ahead.
10 DR. STEWART: Governor, Item Number 7 is
11 the appointment to the Board of Regents,
12 Mr. J. Collier Merrill, Pensacola,
13 Escambia County.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 Where is Collier?
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Mr. Merrill is
21 here.
22 He's caught in the back of traffic there.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Collier, we welcome you.
24 You have your first duty, I guess, at the
25 next Board meeting to hopefully come back with
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1 us with an amended rule.
2 MR. MERRILL: I heard.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You need to have
4 the vote on that.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And a second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: And a second.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 Congratulations, Collier.
10 DR. STEWART: Governor, Item Number 8 is
11 reappointment to the Board of Regents,
12 Mr. Thomas F. Petway, III, Jacksonville,
13 Duval County.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Governor, I'd like
15 to make the motion on that, and tell you that
16 he's done a great job in his first two
17 meetings, and it's good he's getting
18 reappointed again.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's helpful.
20 Is there a second?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 DR. STEWART: That concludes our agenda.
25
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees of the
2 Internal Improvement Trust Fund.
3 Secretary Struhs, good morning.
4 MR. STRUHS: Good morning.
5 Item Number 1, we're seeking approval --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: You don't have minutes?
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No minutes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
9 MR. STRUHS: No minutes.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I've done that
11 before. This time I didn't get caught at it.
12 MR. STRUHS: Item 1, we're seeking your
13 approval for issuance of a quitclaim deed for a
14 reclamation of a small parcel of land lost to
15 artificial erosion and avulsion.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 2, we're seeking
21 your approval to modify a nonexclusive utility
22 easement to Clay Electric Cooperative.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. STRUHS: Item 3, we're seeking approval
3 for the authorization to acquire a 100 percent
4 interest in 302.79 acres within the
5 East Everglades CARL Project.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. STRUHS: Item 4, we're seeking your
11 approval for authorization to acquire an
12 undivided 50 percent interest in 300 acres
13 within the Atlantic Ridge Ecosystem CARL
14 Project.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. STRUHS: Item 5, we're seeking approval
20 for the purchase agreement to acquire .09 of an
21 acre for the benefit of the Florida Board of
22 Regents and Florida State --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many?
24 MR. STRUHS: -- University.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much?
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Point zero --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: What'd you --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- nine.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just say?
5 MR. STRUHS: Point zero nine acre.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: For
7 fifty-eight grand?
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Why is there --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: I thought we had new rules,
10 Secretary --
11 MR. STRUHS: No. Actually the -- the
12 purchase price is fifty-three.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh, fifty-three.
14 That's right.
15 MR. STRUHS: The appraised -- the appraised
16 value was fifty-eight.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Sorry.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Just out of cur--
19 didn't we go through a process where we got
20 approval for not having to come to us with
21 purchases of that size, or am I missing
22 something?
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, this is
24 the -- this is --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's not --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- those I think
2 were --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- a CARL project.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- CARL projects,
5 and this is a Board of Regent, FSU purchase.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
8 the first item, we bought 277 square feet.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: But we -- we didn't buy it,
10 did we?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. Just
12 quitclaim deed.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: They -- they paid
14 us.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We sort of throwed
16 it over there --
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We sold it.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's a good deal.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: We can work with that one.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, that --
21 this is kind of an interesting --
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Make two grand at
23 this point.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- piece of
25 property. You know, the -- the -- the size of
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1 the property, I don't see how it supports a
2 1200 square foot house. If I do --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we have --
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- my mathematics --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a title problem?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If I do my
7 mathematics --
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Could be
9 two stories.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- could be about
11 400 square feet in the property.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Can be two,
13 three stories, you know.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It must be a helluva
15 tall place.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Two hundred
17 square feet per story.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection.
23 Only curiosity.
24 It's approved.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: By -- by the way,
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1 they are turning this into a parking lot.
2 I think it'd be one -- one car.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's how you solve the --
4 the square footage problem, you just tear down
5 the building.
6 Item 6.
7 MR. STRUHS: Additional Item 6, an item
8 regarding Lake Tohopekaliga --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well done.
10 MR. STRUHS: Thank you. I practiced.
11 It's an option agreement to acquire
12 131.59 acres within that lake's fish management
13 area by the Florida Fish and Wildlife
14 Conservation Commission.
15 And Brad Hartman is here from -- from the
16 Commission to speak to the item.
17 MR. HARTMAN: Governor Bush, members of the
18 Cabinet, I'm Brad Hartman with the Fish and
19 Wildlife Commission.
20 And I would like to briefly summarize the
21 rationale that we've used in -- in acquiring
22 this parcel, and also address a couple of the
23 issues that have come up.
24 I'd like to introduce a couple of staff
25 people that I have that are going to back me up
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1 in case we have questions.
2 Mr. Ed Moyer is the Director of our
3 Division of Fisheries who's also -- has a long
4 personal history with the Lake Toho area;
5 Mr. Gary Conchran, I think you met last
6 meeting, is our Land Acquisition Agent.
7 We also have with us -- in case there's any
8 questions about value of the property, we have
9 Mr. George Goodman, who is one of the
10 appraisers on the property; and
11 Mr. Frank Catlett, who is the review appraiser
12 for the property. They are available for
13 questions.
14 I'd also like to hand out a -- a map that
15 shows Lake Toho and the islands and the
16 relationship to the system.
17 Basic-- in our conventional Inholdings and
18 Additions Program, we attempt to buy lands that
19 solve management problems, either access, or
20 something that will allow us to control burn
21 a piece of property.
22 In those lakes that we have designated as
23 fish management areas, we've also had the
24 opportunity to solve management problems in our
25 management of those lakes through the
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1 inholdings and additions program. This is our
2 first acquisition to attempt to do this.
3 I want to draw your attention to
4 Lake Tohopekaliga on the map. This is the --
5 this is one of Florida's flagship management
6 lakes. It's at the very headwaters of the
7 entire Kissimmee/Okeechobee/Everglades
8 watershed and system.
9 And it has a -- a long and exciting
10 management history. Because of its location,
11 it's -- it's suffered a lot of abuses in the
12 past from pollution. A lot of these have been
13 addressed through a lot of work put in by -- by
14 State and Water Management District folks.
15 It's one of the first areas that we -- we
16 initiated drawdowns as a management tool to try
17 to enhance or maintain the fishery in the face
18 of -- of nutrient problems.
19 It's also one of the first areas that we've
20 done mechanical muck removal to try to -- to
21 restore the -- the bottoms of the -- of the
22 lake and enhance the fishery. And it's a very
23 good choice, I think, to try to -- to try to
24 use the inholdings and additions program to
25 help protect the lake.
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1 Management on the lake has many obstacles,
2 and -- and drawdowns have obstacles. There's a
3 lot of reasons that people don't like drawdowns
4 at different times.
5 The potential -- one of the potential
6 problems we see with the two islands is if they
7 get developed, there is going to be one
8 additional urban population who will probably
9 not appreciate the aesthetics of a drawdown.
10 But probably more important is that
11 there'll be access problems across the lake to
12 get folks out to the -- their properties and
13 their homes on -- on the island. And this'll
14 be definitely a problem if we do a dramatic
15 drawdown, and there's not enough water out
16 there.
17 We're currently working on two islands in
18 Lake Tohopekaliga. The island that shows as
19 Makinson Island in the north end of Lake Toho
20 on the map is the Cypress Island that we're
21 talking about here today.
22 And just north of that, there's another
23 island called Paradise Island, which is also on
24 the Fish and Wildlife Commission's Acquisition
25 List.
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1 We're working both islands. They were both
2 put on the list at the same time.
3 We've got -- we've made further progress
4 with the Cypress Island. First of all,
5 we've -- we've had some turnover in ownership
6 that made us realize that this was probably an
7 eminent potential being developed.
8 There was also brought -- when -- when the
9 man who owned Cypress Island also bought land
10 on the shore as a -- as a launching point for
11 traffic back and forth, that made it that much
12 more serious that we had a potential
13 development problem here.
14 We were also able to have a -- we had a
15 landowner who made it very clear to us that he
16 wanted to sell, but he wanted to sell fast.
17 And we got the Trust for Public Lands to help
18 us out with this, and -- and proceeded on that
19 tract a little faster than we've been
20 proceeding down the Paradise Island tract.
21 However, Paradise Island is not only on the
22 list, it has appraisal mapping being done at
23 this time, and we're currently working with the
24 Department to try to get the contracts out for
25 the appraisals themselves, which will lead to
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1 the negotiation.
2 There was an auction at which the present
3 landowner got the parcel for a -- a lower price
4 than what we're paying. I wish we could have
5 bought the land at that auction.
6 There are two reasons why I don't think
7 that -- that it was an option for us.
8 First, I'm not at all confident that State
9 agencies in the Inholdings and Additions
10 Program have the opportunity to -- to go to
11 auctions and try to make those sort of
12 purchases because of the constraints we have
13 from the appraisal systems and the review
14 processes in place.
15 If we had -- we could have gotten a
16 not-for-profit perhaps to go out on a limb
17 and -- and -- and take a chance and buy it for
18 cash --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why can't -- why can't the
20 State purchase property like other property
21 owners?
22 That's just -- that's a sad statement.
23 Why -- what -- what are the impediments for us
24 to be able to act as an opportunistic
25 purchaser?
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1 MR. HARTMAN: Primarily the impediments
2 are -- and I'm not sure that they're all bad
3 impediments -- but that we have to go through a
4 rather arduous appraisal process, we have to go
5 through a fairly arduous review process. And
6 this process almost invariably takes a
7 considerable amount of time to -- to get to
8 that. I -- I certainly think the concept of
9 trying to be able to take advantage of these
10 sales is something we would love to take
11 advantage of.
12 MR. STRUHS: Let me just -- if -- if I
13 might.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Struhs.
15 MR. STRUHS: Thank you, sir.
16 Governor, I obviously share that same
17 concern, as do all of us who are in the land
18 acquisition and land management business.
19 And when I learned of this particular
20 situation, we put our heads together to figure
21 out why the State and its agencies aren't
22 better at being more opportunistic in -- in
23 identifying these opportunities.
24 And the simple case -- simple fact in this
25 case is that we didn't know about it. And --
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1 and nobody told us about it.
2 One of the ideas that our really excellent
3 staff at DEP has come up with just recently to
4 try to avoid this situation in the future --
5 and I'd give the credit to Kirby Green and
6 Eva Armstrong -- is to actually explore the
7 possibility of paying finders fees to
8 real estate agents who bring these parcels that
9 are of interest to the State to our attention
10 when they are put up for auction.
11 It's -- it's -- it's a simple matter of not
12 knowing about it. If we had known about it, I
13 suspect the Commission or the DEP would have --
14 would have jumped at the chance.
15 It's simply a matter of making sure that we
16 have our -- a better system in place for
17 identifying the opportunities that, in fact, we
18 can operate in a more opportunistic fashion.
19 MR. HARTMAN: We hope -- in any event, we
20 hope to bring Paradise Island to you in the not
21 too far distant future. This will allow us,
22 I think, to have a considerably better position
23 from which to manage Lake Toho in the future.
24 And we urge that -- urge your approval of
25 this purchase.
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1 I'd be glad to answer any questions, or
2 have my staff or the two appraisers --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: But,
5 Governor, I -- I guess in my 13 years here, I
6 see this happening time and time again where we
7 miss a -- at the opportunity to -- to get
8 something at a -- at a lower price, or at a
9 good price.
10 And then staff comes to us, and we always
11 have the same conversation time and time again.
12 And we always approve the item.
13 I'm surprised that -- a real estate agent
14 already has a finders fee. They have a -- if
15 they have someone who wants to sell land and
16 they're going to get a percentage of it. I'm
17 surprised the real estate agent didn't contact
18 the State here in the first place.
19 Even if they had, I'm not quite sure we
20 would have responded. We would have gotten
21 some bureaucratic response like, gee, we really
22 can't take it up the line because it's not on
23 some list, or this type of thing. We always
24 find a whole lot of reasons as to why things
25 can't be done.
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1 We purchased Port Washington right here on
2 this -- on this dais one after-- one day
3 when -- when it was given to us literally at --
4 by the RTC, and we just took immediate action.
5 I don't know what the right thing is,
6 Governor. I'm sure this piece of property is
7 needed, but maybe if we turn a couple of these
8 things down, maybe -- maybe we'll -- we'll get
9 some -- some attention.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I appreciate
11 General Milligan stopping us from going through
12 the mechanical approval process last time we
13 were to together, to bring this to my -- our
14 attention.
15 And I have a few questions. And --
16 First of all, this is being sold, it
17 appears, at the -- on the -- on the basis of
18 lots being developed one unit per 5 acres, as I
19 recall, on an -- on an island with no access
20 other than a -- a boat.
21 Maybe someone could describe what the
22 development rights are inherent in both these
23 islands, because I'm -- I'm curious to know how
24 someone -- you know, what the ease will be for
25 someone to get a permit to build on an island
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1 that is the basis of this incredibly high
2 valuation.
3 MR. HARTMAN: I'll start off with that, but
4 I may -- I may turn to my -- to the appraisers
5 as far as how they valued the parcel based on
6 this real estate potential.
7 But we have worked with Osceola County and
8 DCA over the years to try to effect land use
9 controls on those islands that would either
10 remove or -- or at least minimize this type
11 of -- of a problem.
12 What we think we have concluded over the
13 years unfortunately, that there -- there are --
14 are no ways that you can assure long-term that
15 there will not be development out there, as --
16 as -- as comp plans change, as -- as different
17 kinds of needs of -- of the community change.
18 Exactly what kind of development the
19 appraisal was based on, I will turn that over
20 to --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'd like -- I need to know
22 that.
23 MR. GOODMAN: Good morning.
24 My name is George Goodman, and I'm an
25 appraiser. I did the work for the State of
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1 Florida, DEP.
2 These two islands are -- are -- are both
3 sort of unique, because they represent a
4 specific future land use plan that's specific
5 to those two islands that -- that have a --
6 you know, a fairly well-defined stated use.
7 The island in question, Cypress Island, had
8 a -- an approved PUD several years ago that
9 fell through because of something other than
10 the property itself, some other requirements
11 that were -- were placed on it by the State.
12 And the -- as I recall, the -- the approved
13 density was extremely high, and the -- the
14 development included some time-share units,
15 condos, a golf course, and very extensive
16 development.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: As we -- as we stand right
18 here, does that PUD have any standing?
19 MR. GOODMAN: No, it --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: It expired.
21 MR. GOODMAN: -- does not. No.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
23 MR. GOODMAN: It expired --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: So the property that we're
25 purchasing has no development rights attached
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1 to it?
2 MR. GOODMAN: It does, Governor.
3 The development rights are one unit per
4 5 acres right now.
5 Myself and my staff, we talked to the
6 Planning Commission, Osceola County. They
7 would like to see development limited on this
8 island, and they have -- they -- they pretty
9 much told us that as of right now, the maximum
10 development that could be on that island was
11 one unit per 5 acres, and turned out to be
12 about 25 -- 25 lots right now.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's the value that you
14 place on 25 lots on an inaccessible island in
15 the middle of -- well --
16 MR. GOODMAN: Well, it's --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Actually not --
18 MR. GOODMAN: -- it's not exactly
19 inaccessible. If -- you can -- we -- you can
20 go all over the state, Governor, and -- and
21 there are many islands around the state that
22 have been developed with -- with boat access
23 only.
24 There are -- there are people who really --
25 who prefer that, because of security reasons,
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1 privacy, et cetera.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The value of the purchase
3 price is 4 million dollars?
4 MR. GOODMAN: That's --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, you -- you appraised it
6 at four three.
7 MR. GOODMAN: Four three, yes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's that per lot?
9 MR. GOODMAN: It works out to -- well,
10 including the -- the shore parcel, it's between
11 a hundred and forty and a hundred and
12 fifty thousand dollars.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Per acre or
14 lot?
15 MR. GOODMAN: Per lot.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: So these homes are going to
17 be the -- theoretically, would be built for
18 three hundred, four hundred, five hundred
19 thousand dollar homes?
20 MR. GOODMAN: At least. Yes. Yes. The --
21 it -- the lakefront property in -- in central
22 Florida, in -- in the Orlando area -- and you
23 have to look at this as -- as the Orlando area.
24 I live in Orange County. I live in
25 northwest Orange County. I can get from
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1 Orlando International Airport to this property
2 quicker than I can get to my own house in the
3 same county.
4 And it's not much different from downtown
5 to the northwest part of the county, and down
6 to Osceola County because of -- of the -- the
7 traffic patterns and the development patterns
8 in -- in the area.
9 Lakefront property in central Florida, in
10 the Orlando area specifically, it's just
11 disappearing. People are buying existing
12 houses and tearing them down just to get --
13 just to get property on the lake. And we're
14 talking --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: But most of that property's
16 on the outside of the lake though. That's my
17 point.
18 MR. GOODMAN: It is. It is. But it's
19 still lakefront property. It's still -- it --
20 it has that appeal to people to -- to be on the
21 water.
22 And -- and -- and there are a certain
23 percentage of people who even prefer being on
24 an island, as I said, because of security and
25 privacy reasons.
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1 A 5-acre -- you know, lakefront lots --
2 it's hard to find a lakefront lot in the
3 Orlando area for under $300,000. And we're
4 talking about a postage stamp lot with a --
5 with a house, you know, 10 feet away.
6 On this island, you're talking about a
7 5-acre estate lot --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: All of them have water
9 access?
10 MR. GOODMAN: All -- all of them would have
11 water --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you've --
13 MR. GOODMAN: -- access.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- seen the plan.
15 MR. GOODMAN: Well, it doesn't matter what
16 the plan is. I did not appraise the property
17 based upon a specific plan. I appraised the
18 property based upon the fact that here is an
19 island of X number of acres that could be
20 developed with 25 5-acre lots.
21 Twenty-five lots -- you know, to sell
22 25 lots is not very difficult, even for
23 expensive lots. There are small lots over in
24 southwest Orange County that sell for that much
25 money, and they sell 50 a year.
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1 I just can't believe that an island with
2 that much waterfront -- frontage, that close to
3 the Orlando metropolitan area, that close to
4 the Orlando airport, could not sell 25 fairly
5 expensive lots.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: He may have his chance.
7 The Paradise Island, how many lots are --
8 how many -- how large is that island?
9 MR. GOODMAN: Well, that island is -- it's
10 fairly similar in size. I think it -- it might
11 be slightly larger -- I can't remember exactly.
12 But --
13 MR. CATLETT: A hundred and six acres.
14 MR. GOODMAN: I'm sorry?
15 MR. CATLETT: A hundred and six acres.
16 MR. GOODMAN: Yeah. It's 106 acres, so
17 it's a little bit smaller. But -- but it --
18 the development plan on that is -- is much more
19 intense than --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there -- are there
21 development rights on that?
22 MR. GOODMAN: Yes.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do they have a permit or
24 are they --
25 MR. GOODMAN: Well, I don't think
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1 they're -- they're not permitted, but
2 they're --
3 MR. CATLETT: No.
4 MR. GOODMAN: No, they're not permitted
5 yet.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I have a question,
7 if I could, Governor.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I don't -- I think
10 you're right about the value of lakefront
11 property in central Florida. It's definitely
12 as -- as -- it's as high as over on the Gulf
13 coast.
14 My question, I guess, is the fact you have
15 to take a boat to this island, I guess. Is --
16 are there other lakes that have islands that
17 have had similar developments that have been
18 successful?
19 MR. GOODMAN: I don't think that I've --
20 I'm not aware of any lakes, but I'm aware of --
21 of several islands in -- in various rivers --
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Uh-hum.
23 MR. GOODMAN: -- in the state that are
24 accessible only by boat.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Where -- where
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1 would that be, just --
2 MR. GOODMAN: Well, there's several down in
3 the southwest part of the state, down on
4 Don Pedro Island, Little Gasparilla. There are
5 a couple of islands over in the Indian River in
6 Brevard County that are accessible only by
7 boat.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Uh-hum.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And a very high
10 priced island in Key West, I might add.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. That's --
12 yeah.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions or
14 comments?
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- since I
16 was kind of the one that surfaced this issue,
17 I -- my concern really was as much how we
18 missed the opportunity to buy it at -- at the
19 fire sale.
20 And, you know, I -- I wasn't around when
21 you did Topsail Island, for example, that --
22 that particular buy. But that was done
23 essentially with the snap of the fingers to get
24 somebody over there on the courthouse steps to
25 bid on it and buy it.
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1 And it just seems to me that we have to
2 really work on -- on improving the process
3 to -- to take advantage of these opportunities,
4 instead of winding up paying what the property
5 is probably worth. I -- I'm not arguing the --
6 the value of the property. I think it probably
7 is worth in the 4 million range.
8 But it does concern me that we once again
9 missed a good opportunity to purchase a piece
10 of property that --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- clearly would
13 help us.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: And, General, to make
15 matters worse, by buying -- and I'm going to
16 vote no on this -- by buying this property,
17 we're also establishing a value to -- to buy
18 the next one.
19 And I think that this is the wrong approach
20 to take. I really do believe that the State,
21 with its awesome power of millions and millions
22 of dollars, needs to behave in a more
23 entrepreneurial fashion as we purchase land,
24 and not be suckers. And that's what we are too
25 many times.
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1 And so maybe this is a symbolic statement,
2 but at this Cabinet meeting, I've made this
3 point four or five different times, and we've
4 made some progress in the process that we go
5 about purchasing our land, but we have not
6 gotten to the point where we take advantage of
7 these opportunities.
8 And then we end up spending 2 million
9 dollars more on this, and maybe two or
10 three million dollars more on the next, and
11 pretty soon, you know, a million here, a
12 million there, it starts adding up.
13 And this is -- this is -- these are the --
14 this is the peoples' money. We don't have --
15 now we're struggling to figure out how we're
16 going to come up with a dedicated source of
17 funding for the Everglades. And if we just
18 fritter away on the general purchases of land,
19 it's going to be very hard to do.
20 So I'm off the soapbox, but I'm voting no.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If we can
22 find out from staff whether or not this needs
23 five votes or four votes because we don't have
24 the --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Four they're all saying.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Four votes.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that --
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's getting --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: This going to affect your
5 vote?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No, but I --
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah, but I -- I
8 would agree with that.
9 I -- you know, it's not really a question
10 are we going to spend this money to buy
11 important land. If we don't buy this property,
12 we're going to find other property to buy,
13 because it -- we've got a lot more endangered
14 and important environmental lands out there
15 than we have dollars.
16 So by saying no to this, we -- we'll --
17 we'll definitely put the money to good use, so
18 we can just move on to the next project.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I'm not -- I'm not --
20 I'm not trying to influence people's decision,
21 I'm just a little angry.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
23 I -- I agree with you. I think we all share
24 the anger of -- of having to pay more now than
25 later.
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1 If we can also have staff come up with some
2 way of being able to be notified, have -- some
3 way to get the incentive out there.
4 I know David wants to do it -- everyone
5 wants to do it to -- to be able to -- to know
6 when these things are happening.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I agree. We'll work on it,
8 and be -- work harder at it.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's all of
10 our responsibility.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
12 MR. STRUHS: If -- if -- if I might have
13 your indulgence, Greg Chelius, who's here from
14 the Trust of Public Lands and was also
15 involved --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
17 MR. STRUHS: -- in this transaction. If he
18 could have a few words.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: He's holding the
20 bag.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He's -- he's
22 there, right on it.
23 MR. CHELIUS: I'm holding the bag.
24 Good morning, Governor Bush, and members of
25 the Cabinet.
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1 My name is Greg Chelius, and I am the
2 Director of Projects for the Trust for Public
3 Land here in Tallahassee, and in Florida.
4 When I listened to the tape of your last
5 meeting, it appeared that you would like to
6 shed some sunshine on how this project came to
7 be.
8 And I was involved early on, probably
9 three-and-a-half years ago, when a gentleman by
10 the name of Dick Dickerman owned
11 Cypress Island, a very interesting individual
12 who saw a program about the Trust for Public
13 Land early on a Sunday morning, Charles Osgood
14 Sunday Morning.
15 And he gave us a call, and said, I've heard
16 about the Trust for Public Land and your
17 purpose being to protect land for people. And
18 I have this very unique island. It's 17 feet
19 above the water in Lake Toho. I've talked to
20 people about developing the island. And -- I
21 would like to preserve it, however. I think
22 it'd be something good for the people of
23 Florida.
24 So I went down and took a look at the
25 island, and it is -- it is a special place.
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1 There's -- there's no doubt about it. And went
2 to the Osceola County Commission, and also the
3 City of Kissimmee and presented the island to
4 them as a possible public acquisition.
5 Unfortunately, they did not have the money,
6 but were very enthusiastic about acquiring the
7 island and protecting it.
8 When that failed as far as them being able
9 to acquire the island, it really kind of died
10 on the vine. And it was unfortunate, but we
11 told Mr. Dickerman we didn't have the ability
12 to acquire the island.
13 And I would say, oh, six months later, I
14 received a call from Mike Hulon with the
15 Florida Game Commission at the time, and he
16 informed me that the property was going up for
17 auction.
18 I at the time called Dick Dickerman; and
19 Dick told me he had gotten into financial
20 trouble, and he did need to sell the island,
21 and he listed it with Higgenbotham auctioneers.
22 I called Higgenbotham, and I tried to stop
23 the auction. And unfortunately they had put in
24 so much money at the time, they -- they were
25 unwilling to do that.
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1 I wanted to take it off the market, really
2 to bring it to the Commission, and perhaps the
3 Governor and Cabinet, in hopes that we could
4 expedite a process.
5 And really what it would take is getting
6 appraisals done quickly, having them reviewed
7 and approved, and then set a limit of what
8 could be bid at an auction.
9 The Trust is willing to take risks. We've
10 actually tried in a couple of cases for the
11 State, but the limit was just so low, we were
12 beat out by other bidders.
13 If we did have a clear view of where that
14 limit was, we could certainly bid and -- and
15 write a check that day. So we're more than
16 willing to do that, and -- and are -- and are
17 glad to work with you on that.
18 But in this case, I couldn't stop the
19 auction.
20 What had happened is at the auction, there
21 were three bidders. It was a terrible tropical
22 storm. Mr. Hock, who acquired the island, had
23 a representative who did bid the 2.1 million
24 dollars, and he was successful in acquiring it.
25 He, in addition to acquiring the island,
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1 did have to acquire shore property at a cost
2 of, I think, five hundred and thirty or
3 five hundred and forty thousand dollars.
4 I have submitted a letter to you, in fact,
5 that when you add all Mr. Hock's costs together
6 to date, he has about 3.1 million dollars into
7 the property.
8 What we did, once he acquired the property,
9 we knew that the -- the Governor, Cabinet, and
10 the Legislature was looking for ways to stretch
11 the preservation dollars by utilizing
12 conservation easements.
13 And what we did was to contact Mr. Hock and
14 presented him -- if he was going to develop the
15 island, presented him with a concept of perhaps
16 we could utilize conservation easements in
17 protecting the water quality of Lake Toho,
18 allowing the Game Commission to drawdown the
19 lake, to keep the lake clean, and yet he could
20 go on with some type of development on the
21 island.
22 He liked the idea. In fact, we began
23 negotiations, and he flew down to Tallahassee.
24 In fact, when he flew here, Mr. Hock had never
25 heard of Preservation 2000, of any land
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1 acquisition program that the State had.
2 When he bought the island, he clearly
3 bought it to develop it. He's a successful
4 developer from Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina.
5 But we began negotiations with him, and --
6 and the Game Commission. And we were kind of
7 an intermediary trying to work out a
8 conservation easement.
9 And I would say after three or four months,
10 unfortunately those negotiations just
11 completely broke down. What both sides wanted
12 just could not be agreed to.
13 And I remember it was late on a Friday
14 night that Mr. Hock was on the phone, and I
15 informed him that unfortunately the State is
16 just not willing to allow him to have a
17 golf course, not allow any access to the
18 property. He wanted his cake, and he wanted to
19 eat it, too. And we just couldn't allow that
20 to happen.
21 He said, well, where do we go from here?
22 And I said, well, the only avenue that I
23 can think of right now is, are you willing to
24 sell the island?
25 And he said, what would that take?
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1 And I said, well, it would take a process
2 whereby the Trust -- we would do an appraisal
3 on the property, and -- and that appraisal
4 could set a purchase price. However, the final
5 purchase price would be set by the State's
6 appraisals.
7 He had a desire to close on --
8 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
9 MR. CHELIUS: -- the property in 1998 for
10 tax purposes if he was to sell the property,
11 and we began negotiations, and ultimately ended
12 up in TPL having an appraisal done by Boutin,
13 Brown & Butler here in Tallahassee. They came
14 up with the value of 4 million dollars.
15 And in December of '98, we closed in escrow
16 with Mr. Hock. The deeds have not been
17 recorded. And our promise was, the day the
18 Governor and Cabinet approve the project, we
19 would write him a check. And we actually have
20 a closing set for tomorrow.
21 That pretty well is the story. Once we
22 began negotiations, the Game Commission looked
23 at both Paradise Island and Lake -- and
24 Cypress Island, they went through their
25 evaluations. Obviously it went through their
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1 Commission, and those properties were put on
2 their list and approved a couple of months ago.
3 So I just really wanted to come here and
4 give you an overview, the background of the
5 project. We think it's a good project, we
6 think it will protect the long-term quality of
7 the water.
8 And one other thing. We -- we work real
9 hard in trying to save the State money, because
10 the more money we can save, the -- the more
11 property we get to acquire.
12 And I'd just like to -- to share with you,
13 the last five projects we closed on with the
14 State of Florida, we acquired for
15 twenty-two million four hundred and
16 eighty thousand dollars.
17 Those properties were worth
18 twenty-five million six hundred and
19 ninety-eight thousand dollars. Or essentially
20 we were able to convey them at 87 percent of
21 the fair market value.
22 Some of them in Jacksonville, their next
23 regional park, Julington Creek, we were able to
24 convey at 72 percent of fair market value.
25 So we try the best we can to get the best
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1 value and -- and deal for the State. In this
2 particular case --
3 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
4 MR. CHELIUS: -- we had a seller that was
5 not overly generous.
6 And so that's where we stand. We -- we
7 certainly think it's a good project, and I
8 encourage you to protect this, as we also have
9 a willing seller letter from Paradise Island.
10 Those appraisals are set to begin fairly soon,
11 and we think we'll succeed there, too.
12 And with that, the State will avoid any
13 litigation; when it comes to drawdowns, the
14 lake will be protected. And, in our opinion,
15 they're very -- very good acquisitions for
16 Preservation 2000.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Out of curiosity, do you
18 have money at risk?
19 MR. CHELIUS: If you don't approve it
20 today, we will -- we're at risk right now for
21 about $140,000.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Again, I --
23 you know, I think that -- I'm glad I raised
24 this issue, on one hand --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You sure did that.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and -- and I --
2 and certainly would do it again.
3 But, you know, I think we really have
4 gotten to the -- to the root cause of the
5 problem, and that really is our inability to
6 take advantage of good opportunities.
7 And -- and I hope with the leadership that
8 we have there now over in DEP, and in the land
9 acquisition, that maybe we can fix that
10 problem.
11 And -- and on that basis, I frankly am
12 supporting this project --
13 MR. CHELIUS: Thank you.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- even though I --
15 I wish we had gotten it at a better deal.
16 But I think we are paying a fair market
17 price for it, although we could have bought it
18 for half of that if we had had our act in one
19 bag a year ago, or a little longer.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that a motion?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That is a motion. I
22 move that we -- that we accept the -- approve
23 the --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- project.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor.
3 THE CABINET: Aye.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
5 I'm opposed.
6 So it is --
7 Tom, where were you on that? I didn't hear
8 you.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll buy it.
10 Aye.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Five to one.
12 You'll buy it. Privately or --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: He can probably
14 handle it.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: He wanted to
16 buy --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: For the people --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- one
19 lot --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- with the
21 peoples' money.
22 Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That was a
25 very good closing argument.
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1 MR. STRUHS: In -- in closing, gentlemen,
2 we are asking to defer Item Number 7 until
3 Secretary Harris returns.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to defer?
7 Second?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
9 Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it is
11 deferred.
12 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
13 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
14 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
15 *
16 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
17 11:16 a.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 130 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 3RD day of SEPTEMBER, 1999.
18
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20 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
21 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
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