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3 T H E C A B I N E T
4 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
5 Representing: 6 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES 8 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION 9 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION BOARD OF TRUSTEES, INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND 10
11 The above agencies came to be heard before THE FLORIDA CABINET, Secretary of State 12 Sandra B. Mortham presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on 13 Wednesday, September 9, 1998, commencing at approximately 9:40 a.m. 14
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT Registered Professional Reporter 18 Certified Court Reporter Certified Realtime Reporter 19 Notary Public in and for the State of Florida at Large 20
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23 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC. 100 SALEM COURT 24 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301 850/878-2221 25
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 BOB CRAWFORD Commissioner of Agriculture 4 BOB MILLIGAN 5 Comptroller
6 SANDRA B. MORTHAM Secretary of State 7 BOB BUTTERWORTH 8 Attorney General
9 BILL NELSON Treasurer 10 FRANK T. BROGAN 11 Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 9, 1998 3
1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION: (Presented by Barbara L. Jarriel, CFA, 4 Chief Investment Officer)
5 1 Approved 6 2 Approved 6 6 3 Approved 6 4 Approved 7 7 5 Approved 7 6 Approved 8 8 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE: 9 (Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III, Director) 10 1 Approved 10 11 2 Approved 10 3 Approved 11 12 4 Approved 11 5 Approved 12 13 DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR VEHICLES: 14 (Presented by Fred O. Dickinson, III, Executive Director) 15 1 Approved 13 16 2 Approved 13 3 Approved 19 17 4 Approved 20 5 Approved 22 18 6 Approved 23 7 Approved 23 19 8 Approved 24 9 Approved 24 20 10 Approved 30 11 Approved 31 21 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE: 22 (Presented by L.H. Fuchs, Executive Director) 23 1 Approved 32 24 2 Approved 38 3 Approved 39 25 4 Approved 41
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
September 9, 1998 4
1 I N D E X (Continued) 2 ITEM ACTION PAGE 3 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER 4 ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION: (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D., 5 Secretary)
6 1 Approved 43 2 Deferred 43 7 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION: 8 (Presented by Wayne V. Pierson, Deputy Commissioner) 9 1 Approved 45 10 2 Approved 45 3 Information Only 45 11 4 Approved 59 5 Approved 59 12 6 Approved 62 7 Approved 62 13 8 Approved 63 9 Approved 63 14 BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE 15 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND: 16 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell, Secretary) 17 1 Approved 64 18 Substitute 2 Approved 64 3 Approved 87 19 4 Approved 88 Substitute 5 Approved 88 20 6 Approved 89 7 Approved 89 21 8 Approved 90 9 Approved 90 22 10 Approved 90 11 Deferred 106 23 12 Approved 107 13 Approved 108 24 Substitute 14 Approved 171
25 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 173
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 9, 1998 5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:02 a.m.)
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. We're moving
4 right on to the State Board of Administration.
5 General?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you,
7 Madam Secretary.
8 And I believe Barbara Jarriel's here today
9 in place of Tom Herndon. I -- I'm not so sure
10 why Tom isn't here, but it's not because the
11 market went down a little bit, is it, Barbara?
12 MS. JARRIEL: Well, we actually got it back
13 up a little bit yesterday.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah, I know you
15 did. Good.
16 Item 1.
17 MS. JARRIEL: Okay. And, of course, in the
18 absence of the Governor, we request that
19 General Milligan preside over, and chair the
20 meeting.
21 Item 1 is approval of the minutes of the
22 meeting of July 28.
23 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
25 And without dissent, approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 9, 1998 6
1 MS. JARRIEL: The second item relates to a
2 technical error in a previous transcript for our
3 meeting of July 14th. Inadvertently, an amount
4 in the amount of ten million one hundred
5 thousand for Florida Housing Finance Corporation
6 was put into the transcript as ten billion
7 one hundred thousand.
8 We'd like to request readoption of the
9 minutes with the correction to ten million
10 one hundred thousand.
11 TREASURER NELSON: I move the correction.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
13 And without dissent, approved.
14 MS. JARRIEL: The third item is a
15 recommendation to approve fiscal sufficiency in
16 an amount not exceeding two hundred and
17 thirty million dollars State of Florida full
18 faith and credit State Board of Education PECO
19 refunding bonds, 1998.
20 TREASURER NELSON: And I move that.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
22 Without dissent, approved.
23 MS. JARRIEL: The fourth item is an
24 interest rate exception. The Housing Finance
25 Authority of Miami-Dade has submitted a request
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 9, 1998 7
1 to approve an interest rate exception and
2 approval of negotiated sale on an issue not
3 exceeding a million dollars.
4 We recommend that the Board approves the
5 negotiated seller bonds, and authorizes an
6 interest rate not exceeding 9 percent.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
9 Without dissent, approved.
10 MS. JARRIEL: Item 5 relates to the Prepaid
11 College Program. In compliance with
12 Florida Statute, the State Board is required to
13 approve any changes to the Prepaid College
14 Program's Comprehensive Investment Plan.
15 These changes have previously been approved
16 by the Florida Prepaid College Board on
17 June 3rd, and we recommend that the Board
18 approve these changes as required.
19 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
21 Without dissent, approved.
22 MS. JARRIEL: And the last item is our
23 submission of investment performance and fund
24 balance reports.
25 We recommend that you accept these reports.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 9, 1998 8
1 TREASURER NELSON: Was that Item 5,
2 Prepaid College?
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Item 5 was just
4 approved. This is Item 6.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Oh, Item 6. Okay. I
6 didn't see it here. Okay.
7 MS. JARRIEL: Sorry.
8 TREASURER NELSON: That's your report.
9 Okay. I move that.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And we move it, and
11 I second it.
12 And without dissent, approved.
13 I notice that we really didn't fare too
14 badly --
15 MS. JARRIEL: Not at all.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- considering the
17 volatility of the market. So --
18 MS. JARRIEL: That's correct. We've been
19 doing a little bit of rebalancing to react to
20 the market volatility, and it's worked very well
21 for us so far.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. It seems to.
23 Thank you, Barbara.
24 MS. JARRIEL: Thank you.
25 TREASURER NELSON: And so the total amount
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION September 9, 1998 9
1 is now a hundred and three billion dollars.
2 MS. JARRIEL: The total amount, including
3 all types of funds, retirement system, and
4 otherwise.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Yeah. That's something.
6 MS. JARRIEL: Thank you.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
8 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
9 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 9, 1998 10
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Division of
2 Bond Finance.
3 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
4 the minutes of the July 28 meeting.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection.
9 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a resolution
10 authorizing the issuance and competitive sale of
11 up to two hundred and thirty million dollars in
12 PECO refunding bonds.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection.
17 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is a report of
18 award of the competitive sale of two hundred and
19 fifty million dollars of new money PECO bonds.
20 The bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a
21 true interest cost of approximately
22 5.07 percent.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 9, 1998 11
1 Without objection.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is a report of
3 award on the competitive sale of two hundred and
4 twenty-four million five hundred ninety-five
5 thousand of PECO refunding bonds. The bonds
6 were awarded to the low bidder at a true
7 interest cost of 4.36 percent, and resulted in
8 gross savings of approximately 22.4 million
9 dollars.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 That's a great rate.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And seconded.
15 Without objection.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is a report of
17 award of a refinancing of seventy-five million
18 three hundred and eighty-five thousand of
19 Save Our Coast refunding bonds. The bonds were
20 awarded to the low bidder at a true interest
21 cost of approximately 5.39 percent, resulting in
22 savings to the State of approximately
23 7.2 million.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE September 9, 1998 12
1 And I just will comment. I think you and
2 your staff need to be complimented on the
3 refunding efforts, and the money that you are,
4 in fact, saving the State of Florida. The --
5 obviously the low interest rates are the
6 reason. But your timeliness is -- is
7 recognized.
8 MR. WATKINS: Well, we've been very
9 fortunate to have very favorable market
10 conditions. And thanks to this Board giving us
11 the flexibility, we've been able to take
12 advantage of those opportunities when they
13 present themselves. And assuming rates continue
14 to move our way, we'll have additional
15 opportunities.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Thank you --
19 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- very much.
21 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
22 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 13
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Highway Safety and
2 Motor Vehicles.
3 MR. DICKINSON: The first item is approval
4 of the minutes from the July 14th Cabinet
5 meeting.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And seconded.
10 Without objection.
11 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is our quarterly
12 report for the period ending June of '98.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. DICKINSON: Item 3 is a repeal of some
18 administrative rules. It's a former CRP
19 program -- Certificate of Right of Possession --
20 that I know the Attorney General was
21 instrumental in getting off the ground. And I'm
22 afraid it became probably a product of its own
23 greatness, because it drove some business out of
24 the state. And some of our port people got
25 involved in the Legislature and repealed the law
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 14
1 in '91.
2 And when we come to you before -- before
3 you with these rules, we're kind of looking to
4 clean up some rules. So this is part of our
5 cleanup effort.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I find it
7 kind of unique, Madam Secretary, if I can just
8 comment on this. Some of our ports were
9 concerned because in order to ship an automobile
10 out of the state of Florida, you had to get a
11 certificate to do that from an employee at the
12 Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
13 Of course, an awful lot of stolen cars were
14 being shipped out of the state. We noticed that
15 a number of stolen cars were obviously
16 captured. But the shipping of cars then went to
17 other ports, and some in other states.
18 So, therefore, in order to -- in order to
19 help out the auto theft people, we decided it's
20 best in the state of Florida not to inspect
21 vehicles on their way out, causing a lot of our
22 rental car companies to find their cars
23 literally all over the world.
24 I know that you're not as in favor of
25 stolen cars going out of the state of Florida,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 15
1 and you're not repealing this -- this rule
2 because you also want to help out the automobile
3 thief.
4 But we do have a program here in the state
5 of Florida, Fred's the Chair of, which -- which
6 working with local jurisdictions, and with
7 Customs and other people in order to identify
8 these various auto thefts and -- and to do
9 something about it.
10 And hopefully the legislative package may
11 be amended at a point in time in order to get us
12 back on the right track, as opposed to we wonder
13 why is Florida number one in automobile thefts
14 in the state, and every county that has a port
15 just happens to be the -- the county that has
16 the most thefts, whether it be Broward, Duval,
17 or especially Dade County.
18 So this is -- this is a very serious
19 issue. I cannot understand why the Legislature
20 did what they did. But having never served in
21 that branch of government, I -- I don't --
22 MR. DICKINSON: Fortunately, General,
23 the -- technology is helping us out right --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
25 MR. DICKINSON: -- now. We've had -- got a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 16
1 gamma ray program going on at the Dade port.
2 And it's about a $270 issue per gamma ray.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
4 right.
5 MR. DICKINSON: And I think what we'd like
6 to do is go to the Legislature and see if we get
7 four or five of them around the state.
8 The problem -- it escalates. I mean,
9 when -- when we push the bubble here, it goes to
10 Savannah, and that's where the -- that's where
11 they start exporting from. So --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, if
13 they let them export all the stolen cars they
14 want from Savannah, but every -- when we lose,
15 what is it, 140,000 vehicles a year?
16 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary, let me
18 just amplify.
19 I have gone to see this new machine, which,
20 by the way, the gamma ray machine that Fred is
21 talking about is a spin-off from the nation's
22 space program and our gamma ray observatory,
23 which is one of the great observatories in orbit
24 right now, looking into the far reaches of the
25 universe.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 17
1 But this machine is a very cost-effective
2 machine. It does not have the harmful effects
3 of x-rays, but, in effect, they get the same
4 picture. They drive a truck up between two
5 poles, they take a picture of it, and they can
6 see the stolen automobiles inside the truck that
7 does not have automobiles on its manifest.
8 And that way they've got a huge deterrent
9 against automobile theft, and it's being tried
10 out at the Port of Miami.
11 The Insurance Commissioner's Trust Fund
12 gave $850,000 for this specific machine to try,
13 and then we're going to go to the Legislature
14 and try to expand this in the other ports in
15 Florida.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would like
17 to put a vote on this, Madam Secretary, for us
18 to also suggest to the Legislature very strongly
19 that they get back into this program and fund
20 it. Because if it's only $270,000, we have some
21 vehicles that are leaving here that probably
22 have a worth of over $50,000 each.
23 So really this is a -- a program that we
24 really have to get into --
25 MR. DICKINSON: Not to mention the large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 18
1 equipment -- construction equipment that goes
2 out in a larger --
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
4 MR. DICKINSON: -- volume than --
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Which --
6 which --
7 MR. DICKINSON: -- you know, most cars do.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So I would
9 move the item, Madam Secretary, with the -- with
10 the amendment that we also request the
11 Legislature to fund the program, and also have
12 Fred amend his legislative package, which is
13 later on in this particular item, to -- to
14 include the funding of those -- of that.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Question of
16 curiosity, Madam Secretary --
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- while we're
19 drilling this thing.
20 Can you -- be used against containers, too,
21 I presume?
22 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And is it useful in
24 the -- countering narcotics, anti-drug effort?
25 MR. DICKINSON: I'm sure it could be. Most
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 19
1 of that's on the --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Probably income --
3 MR. DICKINSON: -- import instead of the
4 export.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- but it's support
6 nevertheless.
7 MR. DICKINSON: I think there are --
8 I think they use the gamma rays in all the cargo
9 holds now when they have the availability of
10 it. It penetrates the lead, so that's why it's
11 so favorable.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. Thanks.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved
14 and seconded to have the recommendation for
15 approval with the amendment as indicated by
16 General Butterworth.
17 All those in favor, say aye.
18 THE CABINET: Aye.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Those opposed?
20 Okay. That's approved.
21 MR. DICKINSON: Item 4 is a rule on
22 delegation of authority. It tracks what,
23 I think, the workshops on the -- with the
24 Department of Revenue have -- have produced.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 20
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection.
4 MR. DICKINSON: Madam Secretary, I might
5 want to point out that there is a -- some
6 language change that we will finalize as soon as
7 we get the revenue final language that's not as
8 reported in this -- in this item, but it'll be
9 changed to reflect the written request.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
11 MR. DICKINSON: Item 5 is a motor vehicle
12 emissions reinspection facility and
13 self-inspection rule which allows for
14 reinspection facilities outside the inspection
15 county, but within a half mile of the reinsp--
16 of the inspection facility.
17 We did not anticipate that we would --
18 I did that well, didn't I? That was a
19 tongue tier there.
20 We did not anticipate that a -- that any of
21 the counties that don't currently inspect, that
22 there would be any vendors outside the county
23 that would be interested in this business.
24 But we had a few, I think, in Hillsborough;
25 and we've got somebody either in Polk or one of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 21
1 those outlying counties that's right across the
2 line that -- that sees a business opportunity.
3 They would be precluded under the old
4 rule. This would allow them to go ahead and get
5 in business -- in the reinspection business.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And why do we want to
7 do that?
8 MR. DICKINSON: I think we're trying to
9 serve our public better. Those cars that may
10 come out of the facility and want to find a shop
11 close to the -- to the inspection facility.
12 Just because the county line is there, we
13 felt like they ought to have the opportunity
14 to --
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So this is just
16 broadening the ability to have inspectors in
17 other areas than in the --
18 MR. DICKINSON: That's correct.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- is it six counties
20 or seven --
21 MR. DICKINSON: Yeah, that's correct.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
23 Okay. Do we have a motion?
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move, Madam Chair.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved.
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DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 22
1 This isn't a real hot item.
2 MR. DICKINSON: No. I can tell.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second it.
4 But, you know, I hope people will look at
5 that half mile and really decide what this -- I
6 know half mile is just a number. But, you know,
7 why not 2 miles, why not 5 miles, why not a
8 quarter of a mile?
9 MR. DICKINSON: I'm not sure that we
10 have --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, there --
12 MR. DICKINSON: -- any restriction --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- ought to be some
14 logic to the -- to the distance, Fred, that's
15 all I'd say.
16 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
17 Item --
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So with that
19 being said, it's been moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. DICKINSON: Item 6 is a rule on
22 exemptions and waivers from the requirements of
23 our annual emissions program. This would delete
24 the suspension order for failure to inspect
25 within 30 days after you get a waiver. We'll
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 23
1 catch them on the next go-round.
2 And it also deletes the 25 percent
3 improvement threshold upon reinspection.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 MR. DICKINSON: Which we don't have
6 authority for --
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 MR. DICKINSON: -- in the first place.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection.
11 MR. DICKINSON: Item 7 is a rule on special
12 requirements for licensing of a franchise
13 motor vehicle dealer. This expands -- it allows
14 for the motor vehicle dealer to expand his
15 dealership to a contiguous property without
16 having to get a -- another license, a
17 supplemental license.
18 It's a 200 foot requirement, and it does
19 not allow them to go across the street, but
20 allows them to go across an easement.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second it.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. DICKINSON: Item 8 is submission of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 24
1 accomplishments from our 97-98 performance
2 contract for the Executive Director for
3 Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second it.
7 We've been kind of nit-picking here a
8 couple of these items. But this is a
9 significant set of accomplishments, Fred, and
10 I think you and your Department deserve praise
11 for what you have accomplished this past year.
12 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, sir.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. DICKINSON: Item 9 is submission of our
16 98-99 performance contract for the upcoming
17 year.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. DICKINSON: Number 10 is our
23 Legislative Budget Request for '99-2000 for the
24 purpose of transmitting to OPB of the Office of
25 the Governor.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 25
1 You'll see a 14 percent increase, I believe
2 it is, in the expenditures, and a slight
3 increase in personnel. All the personnel are
4 law enforcement related, and our expenditures
5 are technology, trying to enhance our public
6 service out there.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I'll move
8 approval.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second it.
10 And, you know, this -- a good deal of this
11 budget increase is law enforcement related for
12 the Florida Highway Patrol. And -- and I think
13 we need to make sure that the Legislature is
14 given a little push on this issue also, that
15 they fail to generally support the Florida
16 Highway Patrol at the level it needs to be.
17 And -- and we ought to make our druthers
18 known, and that we do support this increase in
19 personnel, Florida Highway Patrolmen. I think
20 it's 176 --
21 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Florida Highway
23 Patrolmen, and -- and replacement of a large
24 number of their vehicles that are -- been passed
25 for the past several years.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 26
1 So I would recommend that we add a little
2 amendment to this that we encourage the
3 Legislature to support the Florida Highway
4 Patrol increases.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'd support the
6 General's amendment.
7 TREASURER NELSON: And, Madam Secretary, I
8 certainly support that, too.
9 And just want to recall back on the
10 quarterly report that was made that another
11 significant achievement is that in our attempts
12 to bring down the number of uninsured vehicles,
13 we had this pilot program going on in three
14 counties whereby repo men could go out and take
15 the tags. And over five quarters, 11,320 tags
16 have been taken from uninsured vehicles.
17 But what that did was that the word got out
18 that you might get your tag taken if your
19 vehicle is uninsured. And as a result, it
20 increased by about 5 to 7 percent statewide, not
21 just in the three counties, where the pilot
22 program is going on, it increased the number of
23 insured drivers by 5 to 7 percent.
24 So we're going to try to get that expanded
25 to all 67 counties in the next legislative
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 27
1 session.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
3 Madam Secretary, if I can, just one thing.
4 Sorry.
5 Fred, on this issue of the 800 megahertz
6 radios, which has been a long-time issue, are we
7 still having a problem with a number of the
8 troopers in the rural areas possibly not having
9 handheld radios, and possibly walking out of
10 their vehicle without any -- any communications,
11 or has that been corrected?
12 MR. DICKINSON: No, sir. The task force
13 adopted two years ago the handheld radio
14 standard. So it's raised the price a little
15 bit, but you know as well as I do, that that's a
16 necessary evil in the business. We've got to
17 have that communication link.
18 And we saw it in Lake City where we had the
19 old system. A trooper was down in the bank, and
20 a couple of guys came by, a couple of troopers
21 came by, and one of them pulled off and said,
22 didn't you hear the response -- the call for
23 response?
24 And he said, no, I didn't.
25 And the car up on the berm had full radio
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 28
1 contact, but the trooper was down about 3 feet.
2 And just that 3 feet, he had lost total radio
3 contact with his dispatch. So --
4 TREASURER NELSON: You know --
5 MR. DICKINSON: -- it's needed.
6 TREASURER NELSON: How long -- how long --
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I want -- just one
8 second now.
9 You wanted also to make sure that this
10 budget included your previous comments on the --
11 on the issue of the containers and the --
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
15 Madam Secretary.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This would
18 be the appropriate place to put it, that'd be
19 fine.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'd move
22 that amendment.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. We've got a
24 couple of amendments here.
25 Commissioner Nelson, did you have --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 29
1 TREASURER NELSON: I was just going to say,
2 how long, General, has it been that we've been
3 talking about getting the communication
4 equipment so that all law enforcement can talk
5 to each other. And lo and behold in -- last
6 summer, in the fires, we were having the very
7 same communication problem between the various
8 fire departments as we were battling all those
9 fires.
10 MR. DICKINSON: The -- the fires gave us a
11 great experience though. Those law enforcement
12 that came in from the non800 megahertz areas, we
13 brought some spare radios up, worked like a
14 dream. So we were -- we're fortunate in that
15 respect.
16 Unfortunately, we've got two-fifths of the
17 state covered in our phases, and hopefully the
18 Legislature will see fit to -- to fund the rest
19 of it.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We did have
21 a very enlightened Executive Director of this
22 agency back about 15 years ago was it, Fred, who
23 started that program.
24 I'm glad to see it's going so well.
25 MR. DICKINSON: Same issues, Mr. General.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 30
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved
2 and seconded with the amendments.
3 And my only comment is we can talk about it
4 up here, but if you don't go to the Legislature
5 and -- and let it be known -- and I'm talking
6 about each one of the people on the Cabinet,
7 you know, having it in the minutes isn't going
8 to mean a diddly squat.
9 Okay. It's been moved and seconded.
10 All those in favor, say aye.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is
13 diddly squat one or two words for the --
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I think it's two.
15 It's passed.
16 Moving right along.
17 MR. DICKINSON: Item 11 is request approval
18 of a contract with Sierra Research,
19 Incorporated. This is a -- we did a competitive
20 bid pursuant to the statutes. This group will
21 come and give us a -- bid specifications for our
22 next emissions contract. They're also looking
23 at any alternatives we may have as a state to go
24 forward and keeping cleaner air.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move approval.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY/MOTOR VEHICLES September 9, 1998 31
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
3 seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 MR. DICKINSON: Thank you,
6 Madam Secretary.
7 (The Department of Highway Safety and
8 Motor Vehicles Agenda was concluded.)
9 *
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18
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 32
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: All right. Revenue.
2 MR. FUCHS: Good morning.
3 Item 1 is a request for approval of the
4 minutes of the June 24th, 1998, meeting.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, approved.
9 MR. FUCHS: Item 2 is our request for
10 permission to submit the Department of Revenue's
11 1999-2000 Legislative Budget Request to the
12 Executive Office of the Governor, and to the
13 Legislature.
14 This budget request has a personnel
15 increase of only one half of 1 percent. The
16 highest priority on the dollar side is a fund
17 shift actually to general revenue from the
18 Child Support Enforcement Trust Fund.
19 Due to welfare reform, which was a success
20 on both the federal and state level, and there
21 was an article in today's Democrat indicating
22 how much of a windfall this has been for the
23 states on the Health and Human Services side,
24 there has been a decrease -- corresponding
25 decrease in the number of cases in child support
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 33
1 enforcement on the welfare side.
2 There has been an increase that matched
3 that on the nonwelfare side. So the -- the
4 number of cases in child support enforcement,
5 the incoming cases has remained relatively
6 stable.
7 But the federal funding is based only on
8 the public assistance cases. Therefore, we have
9 lost tens of millions of dollars in federal
10 funding due to our own success.
11 The number one priority issue for us in
12 this budget is a fund shift of 15.2 million
13 dollars from the Trust Fund to general revenue
14 so that we can maintain the current level of
15 service.
16 The second highest priority, or the second
17 priority issues, are strictly continuation
18 needs, price level inflationary increases,
19 building rental increases, the kinds of things
20 that happen every year.
21 And then finally, within that general
22 priority category are mandated legislative
23 contracts -- or contracts the Legislature has
24 mandated with the Florida Association of
25 Court Clerks to comply with Federal law on
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 34
1 central case registry and State disbursement
2 units.
3 We have added a small number of staff
4 primarily to improve the revenue distribution
5 process so that we can get money out to the
6 counties, and to various other State agencies
7 more quickly, and with greater accuracy; and a
8 few increased administrative needs that have
9 been neglected, frankly, as we've grown the
10 agency by better than 50 percent over the last
11 four years, and have not kept pace on the
12 administrative side.
13 Finally, there's one huge item in the
14 budget, 90 million dollars, which, frankly, I
15 don't think the Legislature is going to give us
16 all in one year.
17 But we're asking for a building complex out
18 at the Southwood location on Capital Circle,
19 Southeast. We currently are housed in a -- for
20 the most part, in a -- what I'd call
21 euphemistically, retired discount shopping
22 center. Tin buildings with flat roofs.
23 We have within that complex the most
24 sophisticated imaging and scanning equipment in
25 any government agency in the United States,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 35
1 including the IRS; and we process something like
2 90 million dollars a day through that system,
3 and through the checks that -- that flow through
4 there.
5 We have as well the ordinary computer
6 systems that -- that any large organization
7 currently uses, roughly 5 million dollars in
8 hardware alone.
9 And our fire suppression equipment in these
10 buildings is the old-fashioned sprinkler
11 systems. So when we have a fire drill, our
12 employees are taught to grab huge sheets of
13 plastic, Visquine, and run and try and cover up
14 these multimillions of dollars worth of
15 sophisticated equipment that we have bought with
16 the taxpayers' dollars.
17 Make a long story short, I think one of
18 General Milligan's old perhaps souvenir
19 sea ration openers would get into these
20 buildings. There's no windstorm protection, no
21 fire -- real fire protection, no protection from
22 the criminal element. And we simply need the
23 kind of building complex that many, many other
24 states have provided for their revenue agencies.
25 So we've put a 90 million dollar budget
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 36
1 item in to raise the consciousness of the
2 Legislature, and begin, we hope, the process
3 of --
4 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
5 MR. FUCHS: -- design and construction of
6 these buildings that would -- we need five of
7 them out at the Southwood complex.
8 And request approval, as I said earlier, to
9 submit this budget.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move approval.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's such
13 a dynamic presentation. There -- I mean, you
14 can see all the media that came out here to look
15 at this. Look at all the media that came out
16 for you.
17 Is there anybody in the media out there?
18 Yes. Yes, there's one person there.
19 Thank you. Thank you. Do appreciate him
20 showing up.
21 That was dynamic. That was fantastic.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Does that mean you
23 second it?
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
25 I want to hear it again.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 37
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Actually, I have a
2 question.
3 In your budget, could you tell me about
4 your privatization issues?
5 MR. FUCHS: Yes. We -- we continue to
6 strongly advocate and support privatization. We
7 currently have a privatization contract with two
8 large national providers in child support
9 enforcement to handle 193,000 backlogged cases.
10 The contract I mentioned earlier with the
11 Florida Association of Court Clerks shifts the
12 responsibility for collection and disbursement
13 of roughly 570 million dollars in child support
14 collections --
15 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
16 MR. FUCHS: -- from the Comptroller's
17 office.
18 I think you're printing about 10,000 checks
19 a day, General Milligan, and -- and the
20 Department of Revenue, into the private sector.
21 We anticipate that the Florida Association of
22 Court Clerks will actually contract with a
23 private provider to -- to mechanically do the
24 work.
25 We are continuing our privatization
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 38
1 contracts with the Florida Institute of CPAs,
2 doing both contract auditing and the newly
3 approved in the last section, certified audit
4 program, which will expand the use of private
5 sector auditors, CPAs, to conduct tax audits, or
6 certify compliance with the tax laws in lieu of
7 using State personnel.
8 I -- I continue to believe that
9 privatization where it supplements, rather than
10 supplants State employees, unless they -- you
11 can prove a cost benefit basis for it, is an
12 excellent way for us to conduct government
13 business, particularly in those areas where
14 adding personnel on short-term projects would
15 just leave us with a liability that'd have to be
16 dealt with later. It's much smarter to continue
17 to use private personnel.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Thank you.
19 Okay. It's been moved and -- I'm sure that
20 one of you would like to second this budget.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. FUCHS: Item 3 is -- Item 3 is
25 essentially what I explained with the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 39
1 buildings. It's our -- it's a request for
2 permission to submit our Agency Capital
3 Improvements Program to the Executive Office of
4 the Governor and the Legislature. And the
5 cornerstone is the building complex that you
6 just approved in the -- in the budget proposal.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. FUCHS: I hope everyone will notice
13 that I've tried to euphemistically call our
14 agency a -- an organization involved in the
15 processing of revenue, rather than the
16 collection of taxes.
17 But I would like to report to you that
18 tax-free week was an outstanding success in
19 every place but the minds of the editorial
20 writers in the state of Florida.
21 I can stand here --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's all right.
23 Actually that's fine.
24 MR. FUCHS: I can tell you that I know of
25 no -- as I stand here, I know of no incident
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 40
1 anywhere in the state where there was a
2 significant problem. It went off --
3 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
4 MR. FUCHS: -- without a hitch.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's great.
6 Okay. Is there a motion?
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
8 MR. FUCHS: No.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 Thank you very much.
12 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: FLAWAC.
14 MR. FUCHS: I -- Madam Secretary --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: We call it another
16 name. FLAWAC is another one of the agencies.
17 MR. FUCHS: Madam Secretary, I think
18 formally we have an Item 4 that is approval and
19 acceptance of my performance contract.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. I thought we did
21 that. But --
22 MR. FUCHS: I may -- I perhaps confused
23 everybody.
24 There were eight measures in last year's
25 performance contract. We met all of those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 41
1 goals. For the Legislature, we met 15 of 19 of
2 our goals for general tax administration, and
3 11 of 14 goals for property tax. This year,
4 we're adding seven new measures.
5 Overall we've had a 7.5 percent increase in
6 collections while keeping our expenses at about
7 a 3-- 3.2 percent increase. And that includes
8 all of our capital and automation expenditures.
9 The -- the other success I'd like to report
10 is that our EDI program is now processing about
11 38,000 returns, 570 million dollars a month
12 paperless, which your office, Madam Secretary,
13 has been very supportive of trying to move into
14 the 21st century.
15 All of our accomplishments have been
16 possible through the support of the mission that
17 you all have given us in allowing us to operate
18 in the most businesslike fashion possible.
19 So I -- I ask for acceptance of next year's
20 performance contract.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved --
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Still second.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it is approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE September 9, 1998 42
1 MR. FUCHS: Thank you.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
3 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
4 concluded.)
5 *
6
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION September 9, 1998 43
1 DR. BRADLEY: Good morning.
2 Before I begin, could I just note for the
3 record that all the items on the
4 Administration Commission agenda, Items 1
5 through 9, have been deferred, due to the
6 absence of the Governor.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That'd be wonderful.
8 DR. BRADLEY: Thank you.
9 On the FLAWAC, Item number 1, request
10 approval of the minutes of the July 28th, 1998,
11 Commission meeting.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 2, request
17 deferral to the September 23rd, 1998, meeting.
18 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move deferral.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded that
23 we have deferral.
24 Without objection, that is approved.
25 Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION September 9, 1998 44
1 DR. BRADLEY: Thank you.
2 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
3 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
4 *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 45
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. State Board of
2 Education.
3 Commissioner?
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, ma'am.
5 MR. PIERSON: Good morning.
6 Item 1, minutes of the meetings held on
7 June 24th and July 14th, 1998.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Have a motion and a
11 second.
12 Discussion?
13 Without objection, item passes.
14 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is a contract for
15 architectural services for State Prototype
16 Primary Learning Centers and Elementary Schools.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Need a motion.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I have a motion and a
21 second.
22 Discussion?
23 Without objection.
24 Item 3?
25 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is a briefing on
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 46
1 Florida's Community College Information
2 Technology Training.
3 David Armstrong, the Executive Director of
4 the Florida Community Colleges will introduce
5 the briefers.
6 MR. ARMSTRONG: Thank you, Cabinet
7 members.
8 I'm David Armstrong, the Executive Director
9 of the Florida Community College system. My
10 first opportunity to appear before you.
11 And I'm pleased to be here to announce to
12 you a wonderful partnership that we have
13 developed recently with CISCO Systems, a major
14 networking corporation in the nation, as well as
15 with our public schools, our public
16 high schools.
17 Recently we announced in a press conference
18 in conjunction with the Governor and
19 Commissioner Brogan's office --
20 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
21 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- that we had formed this
22 partnership to provide each one of our
23 28 community colleges equipment, training, and
24 curriculum through CISCO Systems to become
25 regional training academies.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 47
1 In addition to that, CISCO Systems is going
2 to be working with us to work with public
3 high schools to establish them as local training
4 academies.
5 Through these academies and these programs,
6 what will happen, Cabinet members, is students
7 will be --
8 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
9 MR. ARMSTRONG: -- provided with the skills
10 and training to be able to fill one of -- what
11 is estimated to be as many as 175,000 open
12 positions that cannot be filled in the
13 information technology arena nationwide. And
14 that's the most conservative numbers that we
15 have.
16 This partnership is going to be sponsored
17 also by an organization that you heard from --
18 recognized a little earlier, Communities in
19 Schools, which will help support the
20 establishment of the equipment in the local
21 high schools, our teachers at the community
22 colleges will instruct the instructors at the
23 high schools, and we hope that this'll become
24 the -- what, in essence, will be the shop of the
25 21st century for Florida's high schools.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 48
1 Now I want to introduce to you a faculty
2 member who is from North Florida Community
3 College, Tom Moffses, who is leading the first
4 out-of-the-box regional training academy in
5 conjunction with CISCO Academies. And he's
6 going to give you a brief overview of what the
7 program is all about.
8 Tom.
9 MR. MOFFSES: Thanks.
10 Mr. Armstrong, I appreciate that
11 introduction. Members of the Cabinet.
12 It's an honor to be here to discuss the --
13 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
14 MR. MOFFSES: -- CISCO partnership that has
15 been established with the community college
16 system. A wonderful opportunity for
17 partnerships with both the high school and
18 technical school facilities.
19 I want to go ahead and just look at some
20 quotes that have come out dealing with
21 technology and education. Just quote here:
22 What CISCO's doing is helping our children find
23 a better future in this great land of ours.
24 And that's General Colin Powell, who's also
25 involved in the CISCO program with the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 49
1 American -- America's Promise Organization.
2 Here's some key numbers that we need to
3 look at. There are now approximately
4 346,000 unfilled technology positions in the
5 United States. This is from ITTA (sic), or
6 Information Technology Association of America.
7 Those are positions that we hope to fill with
8 our students.
9 From our press conference last month when
10 we announced this with CISCO, the Governor
11 mentioned that Florida's the second fastest
12 growing high tech state with more than
13 175,000 jobs, 7.3 billion in annual payroll
14 benefits. So we are a player in this industry.
15 Florida's community colleges fill a need
16 for technology. What has happened in the past,
17 schools have not had the resources or time to go
18 through the design of network architecture.
19 Because of that, the students are not
20 receiving the educational benefits of the
21 networking architecture. When they get out into
22 corporate America, they have to learn this on
23 their own if they want to participate in it.
24 Right now, which -- the big factor that's
25 showing up, we're not helping corporate growth.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 50
1 Because these individuals are not trained,
2 corporate growth has --
3 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
4 MR. MOFFSES: -- slowed. So we don't want
5 to do that.
6 What are some of the benefits? And over
7 the last six months, we've had an opportunity to
8 witness some of these benefits.
9 Community colleges are now able to partner
10 with a major industry, CISCO Systems. There are
11 other industries out there that we can partner
12 with, but this was the one that we're dealing
13 with right now.
14 Local area high schools. Some of the
15 community colleges, this gives them an
16 opportunity to reach out to the high schools,
17 and actually be a player with them and the
18 technical schools.
19 Students are prepared to work in the high
20 tech positions in Florida. We want to make sure
21 that we're a player in the technical industry.
22 Benefits for being a regional academy net--
23 regional network academy. We're allowed to
24 train the students so that they can go through
25 and design and build and maintain the networks
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 51
1 that most of you are using in your offices right
2 now.
3 It gives us the opportunity to certify
4 students in network administration. Okay? They
5 actually have a credential that they can go out
6 to obtain employment.
7 Some of the job opportunities right now
8 offers up to $35,000 a year just going through
9 this particular track of curriculum.
10 Shop of the 21st century. Most of you are
11 familiar with "Auto Shop." This is what we had
12 in the early part of the 1900s. It's
13 transitioned. The vocational skills now that
14 you're going to need for the 21st century
15 evolution, you're going to need the computer and
16 the networking technology background.
17 The academy curriculum is four semesters in
18 length. Each class is a prerec to the proc--
19 the following class. Hands-on training.
20 Multimedia instruction.
21 One of the benefits of this program. I
22 have a web server that has all the curriculum
23 listed on that. My students can gain access to
24 that from any Internet capable computer in the
25 world. So they can go through the curriculum,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 52
1 and then we can discuss the materials at a later
2 date. So it's wonderful.
3 The certification exam that's available,
4 the CCNA, or CISCO Certified Network Associate
5 exam. That's provided through a
6 Sylvan prometric testing center. That actually
7 gives them another credential that they can go
8 out and gain employment.
9 What students are saying. Bottom line,
10 students are excited. You have the opportunity
11 to go through problem solving skills. Not
12 necessarily strictly homework. They're able to
13 go through and problem solve.
14 More hands-on work. They have to actually
15 set up networks through the material, set up
16 routers, switches, hubs. And, again, they enjoy
17 the hands-on.
18 Teachers -- what teachers are saying.
19 They're excited about this program, too.
20 Because the students are excited, the teacher
21 energy level goes up.
22 Some of the educators that I've had a
23 chance to meet that are participating in this
24 program, they're actually having to run the
25 students out of -- out of the class at the end
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 53
1 of the day. So that's a wonderful problem to
2 have.
3 I can tell you the students that I have
4 right now, I'm running into the same problem. I
5 can't keep the labs open long enough to
6 accommodate all their needs. They want to stay
7 till 10:00 and 11:00 o'clock at night. So it's
8 a wonderful problem.
9 Okay. The instructors are now more excited
10 about what they're doing. They're out sharing
11 their opportunities. So it's exciting.
12 Now, here's the bottom line. Students are
13 prepared for the high tech, high paying jobs
14 that are out there, and hopefully that we can
15 provide for them.
16 So to give you an example of this,
17 yesterday I sat down with an individual,
18 actually out of Tallahassee, is aware of what
19 we're doing, runs an Internet provider; came and
20 is interested in hiring several students on
21 intern basis right now, as he is expanding his
22 business throughout the state of Florida.
23 So these are the type opportunities that
24 are out there, they're real. People are
25 interested in it, and we're very excited about
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 54
1 it.
2 Now, it's my pleasure to introduce one of
3 the students that I've recruited into the
4 program. This program is set up so that it
5 works as a dual enrollment with high school
6 students.
7 The student I'm going to bring up, he was a
8 dual enrollment student in a class I taught last
9 spring. Very good student, thought he would be
10 good in this program.
11 His name is Candido Perez. He's nineteen
12 years old. His home town is Jasper, Florida.
13 He's currently enrolled in North Florida in the
14 Network Academy Program, and also in the AS
15 program networking technology.
16 So I'd like to bring Candido up, and let
17 him say a few words.
18 Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Good morning,
20 Candido.
21 MR. PEREZ: Good morning.
22 Thank you, Mr. Moffses, Cabinet of
23 Florida.
24 I think this is an awesome program. It's a
25 whole -- I'm enjoying working with computers.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 55
1 I'm hooked onto them, and I'm pretty sure
2 everybody is. I mean, computers are awesome.
3 And, I mean, like the hands-on stuff that
4 we do, it's better than, like, mostly like
5 homework and stuff. We hardly get that. But we
6 can do that through the web -- I mean, through
7 the Internet. And it's better than having to go
8 home with all this writing stuff to do.
9 But we can work on computers, and that's
10 just awesome. I mean, it's great.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Now, you're headed
12 for a degree in --
13 MR. PEREZ: An AS degree in computer
14 networking.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Computer networking.
16 MR. PEREZ: Yes.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Great.
18 MR. PEREZ: Uh-hum.
19 And I just say it's great. I mean --
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you --
21 MR. PEREZ: -- I love it.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- very much. Sounds
23 like you like it.
24 MR. PEREZ: Uh-hum.
25 Everybody does. I mean, it's -- it's
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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1 awesome.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Candido.
3 MS. ARMSTRONG: Cabinet Members, in
4 closing, let me tell you that this is one
5 example of the kind of partnerships with the
6 private sector and with our public high schools
7 that we're going to try to increase in the
8 future to close a major skills gap that we've
9 got in this country.
10 Let me give you two statistics to finalize
11 this.
12 Enterprise Florida and other leading
13 business and industry executives are telling us
14 that we have got to give our students more than
15 a high school diploma these days. They've got
16 to have at least a one-year, two-year
17 certificate. The fastest growing occupations
18 for good jobs require at least that kind of a
19 training.
20 Compare that to a number that the
21 Commissioner and I have talked about, and we're
22 all concerned about. If you do a snapshot of
23 all nineteen year olds in the state of Florida
24 this past year, only 29 percent of the nineteen
25 year olds are going on to a postsecondary
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 57
1 education experience in this -- in this state.
2 We're 47th out of 50 states in the nation.
3 If we don't close that skills gap, our economy
4 is going to be limited. We're trying to close
5 that skills gap through programs like this,
6 partnerships with the private sector, and with
7 our public schools.
8 Let me finally introduce
9 Dr. Beverly Grissom, who's also here with us
10 today. She's the President of North Florida
11 Community College over in Madison, who led the
12 start-up of this program this fall.
13 Tom and Beverly were expecting 30 students
14 to enroll. He's telling me today, he's got more
15 than 60 students enrolled this fall. So it's a
16 growing program.
17 Thank you for letting us give you this
18 presentation.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, David, we
20 thank you. And I know this is for information,
21 doesn't require a vote.
22 But it is a very exciting partnership,
23 public-private, and I think that's the wave of
24 the future, is to bring business and industry in
25 as a partner, and provide some new opportunities
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 58
1 that we simply wouldn't be able to provide in
2 just the public sector alone, for a much
3 needed -- to fill a much needed void in service
4 in our country.
5 I also think I speak on behalf of the
6 State Board members, you're right, we haven't
7 had a chance to see you since you've taken over
8 as the head of the community college system, and
9 I know I speak for my colleagues when I say how
10 pleased we are to have you in that role, how
11 excited I am personally to know that we'll be
12 able to work with you, and our new Chancellor,
13 Adam Herbert, in defining, as Phil Lewis said
14 the other day, that seamless system that's so
15 important to the state of Florida.
16 So we're proud to have you, and all of your
17 colleagues here this morning, and proud to have
18 you in that role.
19 Thanks for the presentation.
20 MR. ARMSTRONG: Thank you. Appreciate it.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Item 4.
22 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is adoption of the
23 Fifteenth Authorizing Resolution to a resolution
24 adopted on July 21st authorizing the issuance of
25 not exceeding 230 million dollars in PECO bonds.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
4 Discussion?
5 Without objection.
6 Item 5?
7 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is a designation
8 change of the InterAmerican Center to the
9 InterAmerican Campus. And in the audience we
10 have the President of the InterAmerican Center,
11 Dr. Jose Vicente.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Will you come
13 forward, Doctor?
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And a motion.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And a second.
19 Discussion?
20 Without objection.
21 And, Mr. President, would you like to say
22 hello to the members of the State Board this
23 morning?
24 DR. VICENTE: Good morning, and thank you.
25 We are extremely pleased to have reached this
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 60
1 level as a campus. We serve more than
2 6,000 students at that particular site.
3 Actually we are larger than six of the
4 28 community colleges in the state. And
5 needless to say, in terms of our colleagues and
6 our community, this is a moment that we have all
7 been waiting for.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I -- I had the
9 pleasure of talking about this a little earlier
10 in my office, and I'm going to share a story the
11 President shared with me. The fact that that
12 site holds even more special designation for him
13 personally than it does most anyone else.
14 Not only is it one of the largest sites of
15 its kind in the state of Florida, and I think
16 will grow even more with this special
17 designation.
18 But when he came to Cuba at eleven years
19 old --
20 DR. VICENTE: From Cuba.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- from Cuba at
22 eleven years old, he began to sell newspapers as
23 an eleven year old boy on that street corner.
24 So that corner, and the buildings on it,
25 hold a very special significance. We're --
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1 DR. VICENTE: It does, indeed. It -- it --
2 I -- one of the things I shared with you, it's
3 like the Lord has somehow left that corner
4 especially designated for me.
5 But more importantly for the numerous
6 students that we serve in the community that
7 we're there for. And we're most appreciative of
8 your endorsement.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Didn't dream a few
10 years later you'd be heading up --
11 DR. VICENTE: I certainly --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- everything that's
13 going --
14 DR. VICENTE: -- didn't.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- on on that street
16 corner --
17 DR. VICENTE: Only in America. What can I
18 say?
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Can you -- can you
20 still sell a newspaper with the best of them
21 now?
22 DR. VICENTE: You could rest assured.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you very much.
24 And congratulations.
25 DR. VICENTE: Thank you.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
2 Item 6.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is an amendment to
4 Rule 6A-1.0014, Comprehensive Management
5 Information Systems.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Have a motion.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And a second.
10 Any discussion?
11 Without objection.
12 Item 7.
13 MR. PIERSON: Item 7 is an amendment to
14 Rule 6A-1.09412, Course Requirements for
15 Grades 6 to 12 Basic and Adult Secondary
16 Programs.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
20 Discussion?
21 Without objection.
22 Item 8.
23 MR. PIERSON: Appointments and
24 reappointments to the Education Standards
25 Commission: Scott Hebert, expiration of term,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION September 9, 1998 63
1 September 30, '99; Molly McGee; Janis Edwards;
2 and John Wiley Horton, all September 30th,
3 1999.
4 And reappointment: Patricia Horn, and
5 Gerald -- Gerald F. Lafferty, and
6 Stephen Bouzianas, all September 30th, 1999.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: A motion and a
10 second.
11 Discussion?
12 Without objection.
13 Item 9?
14 MR. PIERSON: Item 9 is appointment to the
15 Board of Regents, Michelle Oyola, September 1st,
16 1999, expiration of term.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Any discussion?
20 Motion and a second.
21 Without objection.
22 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
23 concluded.)
24 *
25
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Board of Trustees.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 1, minutes.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
7 Without dissension, it's approved.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 2, we're
9 recommending approval of Sunland Estate
10 settlement agreement.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3, a Halifax River
17 Yacht Club disclaimer. And when it's
18 appropriate, we have one speaker,
19 Madam Secretary.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have one
21 question first.
22 Madam Secretary, how many requests are now
23 pending that are similar to this one in your
24 department?
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: We have twenty--
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1 twenty-six? Twenty--
2 MR. MALLISON: Twenty-eight, I believe.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Twenty-eight.
4 Thank you.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. I think if we
7 have a speaker, let's --
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
9 Sam Bell would like to speak on behalf of
10 Halifax --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
12 MS. WETHERELL: -- Yacht Club.
13 MR. BELL: Very briefly, I came this
14 morning because I thought this was going to be a
15 routine item, and I could come and just watch it
16 happen, and learned that there was a proposal to
17 delay consideration of this item.
18 Halifax Yacht Club is a historic site in
19 Volusia County. We've been working for probably
20 two-and-a-half years to work this disclaimer
21 through the process.
22 And it's a historic site, it's been there
23 for over 100 years. This really is a routine
24 item, but for what I understand is a desire on
25 the part of the Attorney General to -- to delay
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1 the item for purposes of having a Supreme Court
2 determination as to what is appropriately
3 covered by the Butler Act.
4 We have no objection to that, of course,
5 but we -- we hate to delay and be dragged into
6 that issue. We came in good faith, we worked
7 through the whole thing, and we would ask
8 that -- that you take whatever steps are
9 appropriate with regard to the -- to the issue
10 before the Supreme Court, but that you let this
11 item go through.
12 I would submit to you that it has no legal
13 effect one way or another on the Supreme Court's
14 decision, or the decision even to hear the item,
15 and that there's no real reason to delay it.
16 And I would ask your help in -- in hearing
17 this item, and not get it tangled up in the --
18 in the broader issue. And that's the purpose of
19 my comment.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have
21 one --
22 MR. BELL: It's really --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- question.
24 MR. BELL: -- a routine item.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: You have a question?
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have one
2 question as to --
3 On this routine item, Mr. Bell, how many
4 times has this Board of Trustees in the past
5 recognized the position that a permanent
6 improvement can be achieved by a dock or a
7 structure?
8 MR. BELL: I'm sure there have been many.
9 I haven't done a survey of that. But you've
10 been considering these over a number of years,
11 and I'm confident that you've taken this action
12 in -- in other cases. So I --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Maybe --
14 maybe somebody on staff can --
15 Ginger, do you know how many?
16 MS. WETHERELL: No. But I can --
17 MR. ODOM: Fifty-one.
18 MS. WETHERELL: How many?
19 MR. ODOM: Fifty-one.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Fifty-one
21 times?
22 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
24 MR. ODOM: Since Jackson shipyards.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
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1 MR. BELL: So -- and that's the point.
2 Just -- one more is one more. It shouldn't have
3 any bearing one way or another on what's -- is
4 ultimately decided.
5 But if you delay it, the -- and this one
6 gets dragged into the Supreme Court procedures,
7 and so forth, then we would ask that you let the
8 yacht club folks sail on, and go on with the
9 greater issue.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
11 I'm -- Madam Secretary, I'm not opposed to
12 this. What I am concerned about -- and I don't
13 think 51 is the correct response.
14 But the -- this issue may very well be
15 before the Supreme Court, and we'll finally get
16 a determination from them as to what constitutes
17 a permanent improvement under the Butler Act,
18 and its predecessor, Riparian Act of 1856.
19 The issue is before the Supreme Court if
20 they take the case. We'll know that very, very
21 quickly. And that -- I believe that after the
22 Court sheds light on the meaning and the intent
23 of the Butler Act, that will be the time for us
24 to resolve this issue.
25 I'm very concerned about doing it at this
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1 point in time, because it -- I believe it is --
2 we do not have the authority to do it. It's
3 just simple as that.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So -- so your -- what
5 is that, a motion to do something?
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I -- I just
7 motion to -- to see what the Supreme Court's
8 going to do. I don't want to stop.
9 And, in fact, if it took legislative
10 authority to do this, I have no problem going to
11 the Legislature, along with all the other issues
12 today, to have them declare this to be an
13 appropriate facility under some other
14 exemption. But I have a hard time using the
15 Butler Act to -- to do this.
16 I -- I do not believe we have the authority
17 to do that, and I hate to get a challenge. I'd
18 rather not be challenged at a later time, and
19 we'll lose this issue and the other ones.
20 I think there's other ways of resolving it, and
21 a better way.
22 I'm not -- I'm not against your project,
23 sir, at all.
24 MR. BELL: Well, and I would, in response
25 to that, say, that we have come through the
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1 process in good faith; we're here today; we
2 learned today that you and -- were going to
3 request that it be delayed.
4 I would submit that it has no legal bearing
5 whatsoever on the Court's decision one way or
6 another whether you approve this item. And you
7 won't be setting any precedent, because whether
8 it's 51 or 31, you've acted many times on
9 exactly this issue in the past.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: How long -- may I
11 ask a question?
12 How long --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Absolutely.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- how long will
15 this process take, General?
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If the Court
17 does not take it, it's very quick. Then there
18 is no problem. If the Court does take it, this
19 could be about a six-month issue.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: How long do they -- how
21 long has the Supreme Court had this already?
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Probably --
23 not that long. It's coming up from a Palm Beach
24 case.
25 Mr. Odom, how long -- how long has it
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1 been?
2 MR. ODOM: About a month or six weeks.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. And
4 they should let us know pretty soon whether or
5 not they're going to accept the case or not, I
6 would assume.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: They haven't even
8 accepted the case yet?
9 MR. ODOM: Well, they have discretionary
10 jurisdiction whether to accept it or not. It's
11 been certified to them, and then they have to
12 make a determination whether they will accept
13 and hear the case on its merits. They have not
14 yet made that determination.
15 Now, understand, part of this time it's
16 been up there, they've been in vacation. The
17 Supreme Court is in recess I think during the
18 month of July. And so that's part of the delay
19 up there while they were in recess.
20 MS. WETHERELL: And, General, I think we
21 need to correct something. Perry was just
22 telling me that the 51, there are 14 of those 51
23 that were structures, and the balance of those
24 were fill.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So -- so
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1 it's only 14 then --
2 MR. ODOM: Yes.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Fourteen of the --
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- that
5 passed.
6 MS. WETHERELL: -- fifty-one that actually
7 had structures.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And the
9 other ones had -- were fill, which is the way
10 that many of us believed that the law was -- was
11 intended to -- to read.
12 My only concern is -- like I say, I'm not
13 opposed to this, but I would just rather do it
14 right, not only for Mr. Bell's client, but for
15 the 30 -- or 28 that are also pending also.
16 I think it'd be inappropriate for us to
17 just take this one, and take the action, and
18 then leave the other 28 sitting out there.
19 I think we should treat them all the same.
20 And I'd rather resolve it as quickly as
21 possible. But I'd rather get a determination
22 from the Court as to just what's included under
23 the Butler Act disclaimers.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The other 28 obviously
25 haven't gone through the whole process. I mean,
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1 is --
2 MS. WETHERELL: Correct.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Or they'd be here, too.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Correct.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, I think that
6 that's -- you know, that's the other part of the
7 issue, is that I'm sure that this has been going
8 on for awhile.
9 How long does this process take?
10 MS. WETHERELL: Well, of course, it varies
11 with each one, depending on --
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: How long has your
13 client been involved?
14 MR. BELL: We have been engaged in the
15 process for more than two years.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And -- well, I mean,
17 there isn't a motion.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I -- I think
19 that since the process has moved this far, it'd
20 be the fair thing to go ahead and approve this,
21 and maybe ask the Secretary to maybe hold off on
22 the other ones till we get indication what the
23 Court's going to do.
24 MS. WETHERELL: Okay.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So I would -- move
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1 the project.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Madam Secretary,
3 just to remind you, it takes five votes for the
4 disclaimer. It would take four on the policy,
5 and five for the disclaimer.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So it's been
7 moved.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll second the
9 motion.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And there's a
11 second.
12 Now, I have a question of
13 Commissioner Crawford.
14 TREASURER NELSON: And I have a question,
15 too, Madam Secretary.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Commissioner Crawford,
17 when you made your motion for approval, was it
18 strictly for approval, or was it also to direct
19 the Secretary to shut down these other
20 28 cases?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, if I could
22 get a vote out of my -- one of my two
23 colleagues, I would do the -- I would do that.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, I'll be honest
25 with --
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1 TREASURER NELSON: I would --
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- you, because --
3 TREASURER NELSON: -- suggest you --
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- I think it's
5 unfair -- I think it's unfair to people that
6 have in good faith been going through the
7 process.
8 So all I want to know is, I want to know
9 what your motion is.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, my motion
11 would be to -- to approve it. We need five
12 votes. If there's some concern that we should
13 wait on the other ones, I'll be -- I'm certainly
14 open to that.
15 I would -- I would like to go ahead and
16 just approve it. But if we need five votes for
17 this thing, then I'd like to see that happen.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So your -- your
19 motion is strictly for approval.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right. I'd be open
21 to an amendment to the motion if somebody wanted
22 to do that.
23 TREASURER NELSON: And I so amend.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And you what?
25 TREASURER NELSON: I would offer an
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1 amendment that would hold in abeyance the --
2 You've got to give me the technical wording
3 here. What would it be?
4 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Are you offering a
5 motion to --
6 TREASURER NELSON: I am offering --
7 MS. WETHERELL: -- Mr. Crawford, or --
8 TREASURER NELSON: -- an amendment to
9 Commissioner Crawford's motion.
10 MS. WETHERELL: All right.
11 TREASURER NELSON: Which would hold in
12 abeyance the 28. What is the technical
13 terminology that should be used?
14 MS. WETHERELL: You might just say all
15 other pending applications for disclaimers.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So --
17 MS. WETHERELL: Excuse me just a second.
18 Perry --
19 MR. ODOM: To hold in abeyance, it takes
20 four votes; to approve takes five. They
21 should --
22 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. We're back to the
23 problem of the number of votes that it takes.
24 So to approve the disclaimer for Halifax
25 requires five votes. You know, to hold in
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1 abeyance Mr. Attorney General's motion would
2 take four votes.
3 So I think what you're saying is it's
4 separate --
5 TREASURER NELSON: No. No.
6 MS. WETHERELL: -- separating it makes it
7 easier.
8 TREASURER NELSON: I think you're confusing
9 the two.
10 Commissioner Crawford has offered in a
11 motion to approve this application.
12 MS. WETHERELL: That's what I understand,
13 yes.
14 TREASURER NELSON: I have offered an
15 amendment to his motion that would approve this,
16 but hold in abeyance until we get an indication
17 from the Supreme Court on the remaining 28.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
19 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But -- but what her --
21 what her comment is is that it takes five votes
22 to approve, it takes four -- four votes to make
23 a policy change.
24 MS. WETHERELL: We're saying --
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: This is going to be --
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1 I mean, it isn't a problem.
2 MS. WETHERELL: No. If you --
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, it would --
4 MS. WETHERELL: -- took five votes --
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- seem to me that we
6 should have two separate motions here.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But I mean, if you want
9 to --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think you
11 do need volunteer motions. Or try the first
12 one, if you get five, there's no problem.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's true. That's
14 true. Well, that's where I was kind of moving
15 in the first place.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's
17 exciting.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- more votes.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We should
20 send the Governor out of town more often.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So we want to
22 stay with that amendment, is that the --
23 TREASURER NELSON: (Nodding head.)
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So we need four
25 votes -- actually since it's an amendment to the
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1 original, I think we need five votes to pass the
2 amendment.
3 And I'm getting shaking of heads, so we're
4 going with that determination.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me -- let me
6 muddy the waters one more bit here.
7 Now we really want to abate all of these
8 disclaimers, or only those that deal with
9 structures?
10 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, sir. That's I think
11 what you're trying to do.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I mean, I think we
13 need to make that clear, that the concern is
14 with abating structures, not abating landfill,
15 is that correct, General, what --
16 MS. WETHERELL: Those applications that are
17 for strictly fill, which is -- which you believe
18 is the appropriate interpretation of the
19 Butler Act, would move forward to you for
20 approval.
21 But those that are pending that deal with
22 improvements we would hold in -- we would hold
23 until the Supreme Court makes some kind of
24 decision.
25 Is that what --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. I have a
2 question then.
3 Someone tell me how many of these
4 28 applications are imminent?
5 MS. WETHERELL: I need Pete --
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, like in the
7 next four months.
8 What was the answer?
9 MS. WETHERELL: I'm sorry. He doesn't know
10 how many are imminent.
11 Is there someone --
12 MS. MIKLUS: There's -- excuse me. There's
13 about three. Three or four.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And I might ask who you
15 might be?
16 MS. MIKLUS: I'm sorry.
17 MR. MALLISON: Kathy Miklus with
18 Title Section --
19 MS. WETHERELL: Kathy Miklus works in the
20 Title Section, Division of State Lands.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So you think
22 there are about three.
23 MS. MIKLUS: Yes. There's not that many
24 right now imminent.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And those are
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1 structures?
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I -- and those
3 are structures?
4 MS. MIKLUS: Yes.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Well, I think --
6 I mean, I'm just going to make my -- my own
7 comment. I just think that if somebody's worked
8 for two years on a -- on a project under the
9 scenario that they could come before the
10 Cabinet. And I -- you know, if it was one or
11 three or, you know, ten, I think they ought to
12 be able to do that.
13 So I'd be opposed to the amendment.
14 But we're ready.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let me
16 just --
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: We've got --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- ask one
19 question.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes. Absolutely.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What
22 concerns me is what takes two years?
23 Why does this process take two years?
24 I mean, that's -- that's an awful long time.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This is government.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's a horrible time.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is
3 government --
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This is government
5 you're talking about.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You're
7 getting all the government you're paying for.
8 Is it that the applicant didn't do what the
9 applicant was supposed to do, or was the -- is
10 the agency so overworked to where it takes years
11 and years and years and years for this to
12 happen?
13 I mean --
14 MS. WETHERELL: Can we let the lady who
15 deals with this part of the agency try to answer
16 that?
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes. But if
18 we need more people for that agency, maybe we
19 can add that to our legislative list today.
20 But -- but it's --
21 MS. MIKLUS: Hi. I'm Kat-- I'm
22 Kathy Miklus. And I work in the Title and Land
23 Records Section, the Bureau of Survey and
24 Mapping. And I work on the disclaimer
25 applications.
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1 Generally, it's getting the survey approved
2 that takes the longest. And then other concerns
3 are getting all the necessary items, the
4 affidavits and aerial photographs that are
5 needed.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah. But
7 that's -- the applicant must do that.
8 MS. MIKLUS: Yes, sir.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So this
10 is -- so it's the applicant that takes
11 two years, it's not your process that takes
12 two years.
13 So it's Mr. Bell's client that took this
14 two years. It could have been done in one day
15 if, in fact, his client would have put
16 everything on the desk.
17 I mean, that's -- that's what I'm getting
18 at, that --
19 MR. BELL: That's a chance.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think this
21 is unfair to this -- to have this agency -- that
22 I think's a very good agency -- having all of us
23 in this room believe it takes two years to do
24 something, whereas it doesn't.
25 And that's what I -- I just want to get
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1 that clear. That was all I -- just -- I know
2 you do a much better job than that. That's why
3 I --
4 MS. MIKLUS: Well, we just have a small
5 delay trying to get the agenda item. You know,
6 that takes time for reviews and processes and --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's our
8 fault, I guess then.
9 MS. MIKLUS: That's toward the end.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Towards the
11 end. Okay.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Madam Secretary,
13 would it serve a better purpose to really
14 separate these two issues, and --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Oh, yes.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- address first the
17 disclaimer issue, and then this -- the amendment
18 as a separate motion?
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I thought so.
20 But they didn't want to -- they didn't want to
21 remove the amendment. So that's -- that's --
22 I mean, the person offering the amendment has
23 to -- has to decide to do that.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: All right.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So with that
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1 being said, we will vote on the amendment, which
2 would be to put on hold all those with a -- a
3 structure; is that correct?
4 MS. WETHERELL: An improve--
5 MR. ODOM: Excuse me.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Commissioner Nelson?
7 TREASURER NELSON: Is that the
8 terminology? Structural improvement?
9 MR. ODOM: Excuse me. May -- let me
10 clarify, if I may, Madam Secretary.
11 I think what the General's saying is if
12 it's on fill land with a structure, that's
13 properly a matter for Butler Act disclaimer.
14 But what you want to hold in abeyance, if I
15 understand it, are those structures, like docks,
16 for example, that are not on fill lands.
17 So you don't -- you should not just hold in
18 abeyance all structures. Hold in abeyance those
19 structures that are not built on filled land.
20 Is that correct, General?
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's correct.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
23 I think he's correct in that. But I think all
24 of us understand that.
25 TREASURER NELSON: I asked for the
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1 clarification, and -- from a technical
2 standpoint, so I accept the gentleman's
3 clarification. And that would be the nature of
4 my amendment.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just part of
6 the inquiry, are we voting on them separately,
7 or together?
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: We are definitely
9 voting on them separately.
10 Okay. So we're going to vote on the
11 amendment first --
12 TREASURER NELSON: Does it require a
13 second, Madam Secretary?
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I thought we did
15 have a second actually. But --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second it --
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- so we have one.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So we do have a
20 second if we didn't.
21 All those in favor of the amendment, say
22 aye.
23 THE CABINET: Aye.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So I believe
25 that was 5 to 1, which would pass, correct?
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1 Everybody heard aye, except mine?
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So the amendment
5 passes.
6 And now we're on the original motion, which
7 would be to approve the Halifax River Yacht Club
8 disclaimer.
9 TREASURER NELSON: As amended.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: As amended.
11 All those in favor, say aye.
12 THE CABINET: Aye.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: All those opposed?
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
15 And the reason is I can't argue -- I can't
16 vote one way here, and argue the opposite
17 position across the street in a few weeks.
18 So my vote's no.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. That was my
20 reason for voting no the other way.
21 Okay. So it passes 5 to 1 also.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Yes. Thank you.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Fortunately
24 there's very little press here, so the
25 Supreme Court might not read what we did today.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let's hope they
2 don't.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Moving right
4 along.
5 MS. WETHERELL: All right. Item 4 is a
6 Dade County conveyance.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without discussion, it's approved.
11 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute Item 5 is a
12 policy for stilthouse structures.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
14 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Need a motion.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And a second.
18 Without dissension, it's approved.
19 MS. WETHERELL: And --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Item 7.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Item --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I saw
23 Latvala's out there. If you could, maybe we
24 should have him come up anyway and
25 acknowledge --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: He just wanted to
2 leave so --
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: He knows a good thing
4 when he sees it.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let's hope
6 the former Speaker has so little to say --
7 SENATOR LATVALA: Thank you.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 6, option
9 agreement for Archie Carr CARL project.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
13 It's approved.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Item 7, three option
15 agreements for the Wekiva-Ocala Greenway CARL
16 project.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
21 Without discussion, it's approved.
22 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8 is an option
23 agreement for Lake Wales Ridge Ecosystem
24 project.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
3 Without dissension, it's approved.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9 is an option
5 agreement for South Savannas CARL project.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
9 Without discussion, it's approved.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Item 10, six option
11 agreements and three purchase agreements for
12 Corkscrew Watershed project.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
16 It's approved.
17 MS. WETHERELL: Item 11, an option
18 agreement for Grayton Beach Recreation and Parks
19 Addition, and a --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I have --
21 MS. WETHERELL: -- waiver of survey --
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I have a question,
23 Madam Secretary, if I may.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Question.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm interested in
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1 the process here.
2 Apparently this property was purchased by a
3 group in March, and this piece of property I
4 presume has been on the CARL project list for
5 some time.
6 And then the property was offered to the
7 State as part of a purchase under the project.
8 And I guess I'm -- I'm wondering, what effort do
9 we go to to -- to get to owners of that -- the
10 previous owners of that property?
11 How did this process work?
12 MS. WETHERELL: How did -- I'm sorry. I
13 don't understand the question.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well --
15 MS. WETHERELL: How did we work with --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the property was
17 bought from the original owners in March, and
18 then offered to the State --
19 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- a month later or
21 two months later. It was bought for 100,000 --
22 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and now we're
24 paying 140,000.
25 I'd like to -- I'd like to get in on those
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1 kind of land deals. And I'm just curious as to
2 how -- how the original owners were notified
3 that this piece of property was going to be
4 purchased by the State.
5 MS. WETHERELL: Well --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If they ever were.
7 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
8 Well, I think, you know, that this probably
9 happens, you know, more frequently than -- than
10 you probably realize, in that our whole
11 acquisition process is a very public process,
12 except for the negotiation piece.
13 But the lists are all public. Y'all
14 approve the project list in February --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: True.
16 MS. WETHERELL: -- where everybody knows
17 what's on the list, and what the priority is,
18 and what can be bought.
19 In this case, you have an individual who
20 purchased this property. I think they said that
21 the -- it was kind of a fire sale, that the
22 person on the property needed money, they sold
23 it to this person for a good price.
24 So this current owner apparently got a good
25 deal on it. The appraiser came in --
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The previous -- the
2 previous owner didn't know that the State was
3 interested in this property?
4 MS. WETHERELL: I'm sure they must have
5 known, because it's been on the list for a long
6 time. It's a public list, and it wouldn't be on
7 there if they didn't want it.
8 Because if -- if the owner doesn't want
9 their property on the list, we will take it
10 off. So they must -- must know.
11 And we notify everybody that's on the list
12 that their property is being considered to be on
13 the list.
14 Is there something I need to add?
15 MR. MALLISON: Well, I would add,
16 Mr. Comptroller, that the -- this property is
17 not actually on a CARL list, it is on the
18 inholdings and --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
20 MR. MALLISON: -- admissions list of the
21 Division of Recreation and Parks.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I accept that.
23 MR. MALLISON: And many of those
24 acquisitions are sort of acquisitions of
25 opportunity.
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1 And as I understand it, as the Secretary
2 indicated, that the -- the previous owner
3 apparently was in a position where they needed
4 to sell the property fairly quickly.
5 And our process is not really geared up to
6 do it in that kind of a time frame. And that
7 was why we were not able to purchase it from a
8 previous owner.
9 MS. WETHERELL: And, you know, I think the
10 most salient point though is that, you know,
11 the -- the independent appraisers go out and
12 make these appraisals. We -- you know, we
13 ourselves are out making the appraisals --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand that.
15 MS. WETHERELL: So, you know, we're buying
16 it for, what, 20,000 less than what it was
17 appraised at. So this previous owner just
18 simply made a good deal.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Sure did.
20 MS. WETHERELL: And, you know, he did.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
22 Madam Secretary, if I can just maybe add
23 something here.
24 It only took a couple months from -- from
25 the time this is purchased till it came before
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1 us. So it's much quicker than the Butler Acts
2 obviously.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The -- I
5 would assume then what happened here is that the
6 new purchaser knocked on your agency's door, and
7 said, I want to sell you something that you want
8 to buy.
9 Is that probably what happened? Or did
10 somebody knock on the new purchaser's door from
11 your agency?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I would ask the
13 person who's running that program if -- how --
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Because how
15 do we know that that person wanted to sell
16 that --
17 MS. WETHERELL: Well, if it's on any list,
18 whether it's Recreation and Parks' additions
19 list, or Game and Fish Commission list, or CARL,
20 then, you know, folks know that their property
21 is on the list.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
23 MS. WETHERELL: So --
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- there's
25 got to be a way -- if, in fact, it takes you too
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1 long to come before us --
2 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- for us to
4 buy the property, there has to be a way to
5 short-circuit that, especially for the
6 inholdings, because this allows for a cottage
7 industry -- more than a cottage industry --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- to come
10 up --
11 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- find out
13 what's on your list, find out what you want to
14 buy, hire somebody that knows how this -- how
15 this thing works, and just knock on your door.
16 So I think we could probably streamline
17 this, Madam Secretary, to where we should be the
18 one saving the $40,000. And we should be the
19 one making the -- making the good deal.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I don't think
22 there's any question. But I think what you're
23 saying is is that this happens pretty
24 frequently.
25 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I don't know that
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1 it's real frequent. But the bottom line is
2 that, you know, this is a public process, and
3 people know it.
4 The risk they're taking if they do that is
5 that they don't know what the appraisal is going
6 to come in at. So they've -- they've got a
7 certain level of risk when they try to buy the
8 property early.
9 They don't know what the appraisal is, or
10 will be. And so it is a risk to them. In this
11 case, this individual apparently, you know, like
12 I said, bought it in kind of a fire sale. The
13 people really needed money.
14 In this case, he lucked out, because the
15 appraisals came in at a hundred and sixty,
16 and --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You know,
18 Madam Secretary, it may be he didn't luck out.
19 What if we were not to buy this?
20 I don't know how important it is to the
21 scheme of things in that particular area. What
22 if we don't buy it? What if we renegotiate the
23 price?
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, and I think --
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Prior to --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- the -- I mean, we're
2 talking about just over a half acre. I mean --
3 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- what's -- what's
5 this half acre going to make -- what's this
6 half acre going to make a big difference in the
7 scheme of the life of the citizens of the --
8 MS. WETHERELL: Well, you know --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- state of Florida.
10 MS. WETHERELL: -- I wish -- I'm sorry. I
11 wish I had somebody from the Division --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's --
13 MS. WETHERELL: -- to say --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Really, in my
15 mind --
16 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- in my mind,
18 Madam Secretary --
19 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- it's not the
21 half acre, it's the principal that we're
22 dealing --
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- with here --
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- correct.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- in trying to make
2 the process --
3 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- work in a manner
5 that, in fact, saves the taxpayers as much as
6 possible, while we, in fact, acquire land that
7 we would like to provide to the citizens of the
8 state, and -- and in an environmental sense.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Unfortunately, this
10 is -- this is not an issue that is just a
11 Cabinet issue. We have the same exact problem
12 with local governments. They have to negotiate,
13 and they have to put their information out to
14 the general public, which immediately raises the
15 price of land purchases all over the
16 state of Florida.
17 And -- I mean, I think that you're
18 absolutely right, it is the principal of the
19 thing. And I think the question is -- is: Is
20 this piece of property going to make a
21 significant difference to the state of Florida?
22 Maybe it is. I mean, maybe somebody could
23 say why this is important, and maybe we need to
24 just defer this till the next meeting, and have
25 somebody let us know that.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I have
2 a couple questions that might help or --
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure. Go ahead.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Who owns
5 this piece of property now?
6 MS. WETHERELL: The man's name, the
7 owner's --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: The man's
9 name.
10 MS. WETHERELL: -- name? Is --
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It says
12 Butler Properties.
13 MS. WETHERELL: Van Ness Butler.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Does he hold
15 any public office as far as you know?
16 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, he does.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What public
18 office does he hold?
19 MS. WETHERELL: He's a County Commissioner,
20 I believe.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Which
22 county?
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Walton County.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Which county
25 is this land in?
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The same.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Who was the
3 agent that came to your office on this case?
4 MR. MALLISON: Jim McFarland.
5 MS. WETHERELL: Jim McFarland.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Did he ever
7 hold any position in -- in your agency?
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, he was --
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What
10 position did he have?
11 MS. WETHERELL: -- previous State Lands
12 Director.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Prior to Pete Mallison.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Thank you, General.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
18 General, for bringing the issue up.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So what's the pleasure
20 of this Board?
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, let me just
22 say: This has been an ongoing problem since,
23 you know, the seven or so years I've been here.
24 I don't know how you get around it. You have to
25 have -- it's a public process. And I don't --
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1 you can't change that. Shouldn't change that.
2 And there's going to be speculators out
3 there, entrepreneurs. Maybe shouldn't be doing
4 it, maybe they should. I think we've identified
5 a problem, but I don't think we've identified a
6 solution. That would be one thing.
7 So the second thing, as Secretary Mortham
8 says, you know, how important is this purchase.
9 I assume it's somewhat important, or it wouldn't
10 be on the -- on the list.
11 So I don't -- I don't want to stop a
12 project because we see a flaw in the system,
13 unless somehow stopping the project would change
14 the system.
15 And I don't see the change occurring,
16 because it's a public -- it's got to be public.
17 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So unfortunately --
19 every once in awhile we actually do get a good
20 deal. It's rare.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And it's -- it's
23 just unfortunate. But --
24 MS. WETHERELL: And --
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- if Walt Disney
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1 had to disclose that they were purchasing all
2 that land in central Florida when they came,
3 probably they wouldn't have got good deals
4 either. But they could do it privately. We --
5 we can't do that.
6 MS. WETHERELL: And there has been this
7 discussion, you know, and I know exactly what
8 you're saying. And it is aggravating.
9 We've had this discussion in the halls of
10 the Legislature. I've been involved with P2000
11 since day 1, and this has been discussed, and
12 people do know this -- this is a potential
13 problem.
14 They've weighed in favor of the totally
15 open public process, with the exception of the
16 appraisals being confidential, and that being
17 something that lowers the risk of this
18 happening.
19 But I know exactly what y'all are saying.
20 And I can cert-- I'm sorry, I apologize we don't
21 have somebody from the Division here today --
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary,
23 when --
24 MS. WETHERELL: -- can bring --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- when we do Cabinet
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1 prep --
2 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- we regularly get
4 into this same discussion. FSU is a prime
5 example.
6 I was driving my brother back to the
7 airport this weekend, and we drove through the
8 campus of FSU, and were looking at the campus
9 and some of the surrounding property.
10 And he just piped up and said, gee, a smart
11 guy would buy up a bunch of these old buildings,
12 because it's obvious FSU is going to have to
13 ultimately spread its wings.
14 And I said, yeah, why didn't we think of
15 that? And we deal with that all the time.
16 And it always brings us back to the three
17 options that you have, period, game over: You
18 can either accept the negotiated price and know
19 that you're dealing in the public arena with
20 these things; you can send staff back and say,
21 I think we can do better. We've done that on
22 some occasions. FSU again, a good example. We
23 say, get back in there and fight and see if you
24 can get it down even lower.
25 Or the third -- and I think the General
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1 alluded to that -- is all is recognized that we
2 have the ability to look staff in the eye and
3 say, do we need this piece of property.
4 And in the final analysis, if it doesn't
5 pass the smile test, and sometimes if you take a
6 pass on a piece of property that you just don't
7 have to have, then that can send a bigger
8 message to -- to the sellers out there than
9 virtually anything else that you can do.
10 And we're -- we're here today. You either
11 accept the negotiated price; you send them back
12 in and say, pound on them a little harder and
13 see if you can get it down; or you -- or we make
14 a determination based on input from staff that
15 we don't need the piece of property, at least
16 that badly, and we let it go.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think it's
18 very ironic that Walton County is the county
19 that used to come in here -- until the property
20 values went sky high -- used to come in here,
21 and every time we would purchase land and take
22 it off the tax rolls, they'd be here complaining
23 about it. Seriously complain about -- and maybe
24 rightfully so.
25 Now, we have a sitting Commissioner asking
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1 us to take land off the tax rolls.
2 I believe it's best just to defer this
3 item. I suggest we defer this item, let the sun
4 shine on it for the next few weeks, and maybe
5 then we can maybe vote on it.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Is that a motion?
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That would
8 be -- I know how I'd vote on it today. Just
9 vote, no, and send a real clear signal. But I
10 think maybe we should look at it for a couple of
11 weeks.
12 I move we defer the item.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Moved and
16 seconded to defer.
17 All those in favor, say aye.
18 THE CABINET: Aye.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Opposed?
20 Okay. Unanimously deferred.
21 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 12 are
22 six purchase agreements for Cape Romano, and
23 waiver of survey.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm afraid to
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1 second.
2 What's everybody think?
3 How do they look?
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll second.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Without -- without
7 discussion, it's approved.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: There's a
9 Brogan in a chain of title I see here.
10 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Item 13, purchase
11 agreement for Greenways and Trails.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Be careful on this
13 one now.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: This one is a good
15 one. I'll move -- I'll move this one.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll sort of second
17 it.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. We've got a good
19 one. So --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I need to make a
21 comment though, Madam Secretary.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes, sir.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, we've --
24 we've been down this railroad track before.
25 And -- and, you know, you talk about what
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1 we've been trying to deal with in this piece of
2 property in Walton County. And -- and if you
3 recall, we did take exception to the previous
4 railroad deal that we had at, as I recall,
5 $82,000 an acre, and drove it down somewhat.
6 And I'm pleased to see that this came in at
7 $30,000 an acre. So, you know, you can send a
8 signal.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's right.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You can have an
11 impact. And --
12 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and so I think it
14 is important what we did with Fort Walton in
15 making -- in sending the right signal.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Any other
17 discussion?
18 Okay. And without dissension, it is
19 approved.
20 MS. WETHERELL: All right. We're on
21 Item -- Substitute Item 14. We do have two
22 speakers.
23 This is the eminent domain for the
24 Rotenberger CARL project condemnation
25 resolution, and the delegation of authority.
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1 I have two speakers, Madam Secretary, who
2 want to speak in opposition to the item.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
4 MS. WETHERELL: So if I could call on first
5 Peggy Hamilton representing the Parker Family
6 Trust.
7 MS. HAMILTON: Thank you.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
9 MS. HAMILTON: Good morning.
10 I'll try not to take up as much of your
11 time as I did last week.
12 My name is Peggy Hamilton. And I was --
13 I'm representing the Parker Family Trust.
14 And we oppose the -- going into the
15 eminent domain on our particular property at
16 this time. We don't feel like the Department of
17 Environmental Protection has, in my opinion, and
18 in -- all my brother's opinions, have acted in
19 good faith and given us bona fide offers.
20 And they are wanting to take 40 percent of
21 our property, whereas, in fact, it will
22 definitely economically adversely impact us.
23 Our land is in -- is in sugar cane production.
24 We have 1276 acres approximately total.
25 They have grouped us in with a bunch of
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1 other lands that as -- it's my understanding
2 that are natural habitat.
3 And out of the 246 or -- that it says here,
4 but it was my understanding there were
5 236 parcels still opposed to the eminent domain
6 at this time.
7 There's only three of us that are actually
8 in farmland, as my understanding, as -- ours is
9 the largest section of it to begin with. But --
10 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
11 MS. HAMILTON: -- I'm been negotiating with
12 Kathy Keys of the DEP since January 30th when we
13 received their first offer.
14 And I made them very well aware that we
15 have a very substantial ironclad lease on this
16 land that is good to the year 2007.
17 In all of my correspondence I've received
18 back from the DEP, I have never -- that issue
19 has never been addressed, that issue is not
20 going to go away. And for those reasons, I
21 really don't feel like that they have given us
22 bona fide offers, because there's -- we've
23 talked about it on the telephone. But there's
24 never anything in writing that says that they're
25 acknowledging that we have this lease when
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1 they -- I have my certified receipts showing
2 that they have received the lease as early as
3 February -- I think it was 19th or 20th of this
4 year.
5 So I thank you for your consideration,
6 and --
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary, if I
8 might -- I'm not trying to cut you off --
9 MS. HAMILTON: That's all right.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Ms. Hamilton.
11 I'm sorry.
12 MS. HAMILTON: Go ahead.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Okay. I will -- want
14 you to kind of stay put, but I wanted to ask --
15 MS. HAMILTON: Okay.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- a question by you
17 to the Secretary. Because this is a rather
18 complicated issue, and I want to make sure that
19 I understand it.
20 My understanding is, is that based on the
21 size of some of the parcels of property, that
22 there is almost a Catch-22 in the negotiations
23 process relative to bona fide bids on the
24 property.
25 That precludes you from being able to go to
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1 certain levels of negotiation because the
2 property is of a particular size, much larger
3 than some of the smaller properties which allow
4 you that flexibility, that in this particular
5 case, if by moving to eminent domain, if that is
6 a determination of the Board --
7 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- that this would
9 then give you the flexibility to further
10 negotiate and have a greater latitude in the
11 price range with which you negotiate.
12 Am I -- am I correct?
13 MS. WETHERELL: Well, obviously with -- we
14 would continue to try to negotiate. And her
15 situation is very unique from the others in that
16 her property is divided by the Miami Canal.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Uh-hum.
18 MS. WETHERELL: And one side of her
19 property is in the boundary of what we're trying
20 to buy, what Florida law says that we must
21 purchase. And the other side of her property is
22 not. But she has a lease that covers both sides
23 of the canal.
24 MS. HAMILTON: It covers all of it.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Uh-hum.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: And so she -- she does have
2 a unique situation.
3 We're just in kind of a -- between a rock
4 and a hard place, because the west side of her
5 property is in the project, the Rotenberger
6 project, which the law says that we must
7 purchase.
8 So, you know, she feels that we have not
9 made the kind of effort that we should make to
10 try to also buy the east side as well.
11 MS. HAMILTON: There hasn't even been any
12 acknowledgment in writing about our lease. And
13 that cannot be ignored. It's on record.
14 MS. WETHERELL: And so I think that's the
15 heart of the matter.
16 Our problem though is that we must purchase
17 the Rotenberger parcel. And she's got a unique
18 situation here.
19 And, you know, if -- if you would like to
20 hear from the staff who --
21 Pete, who do we have here --
22 Ed that could maybe talk about his staff
23 that has, you know, actually dealt with this
24 lady.
25 But, you know, it is unique, and I
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1 understand where she's coming from.
2 MS. HAMILTON: Well --
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well --
4 MS. HAMILTON: -- pardon my lack of
5 confidence -- pardon my lack of confidence in
6 the DEP, but when you don't receive anything
7 back in writing, and you talk with them verbally
8 on the telephone, and what you get in writing is
9 totally different, you just don't have much
10 confidence in them.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: But, Ms. Hamilton,
12 I'm just trying to --
13 MS. HAMILTON: No, I understand. I --
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- I'm just trying --
15 MS. HAMILTON: -- understand --
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- to understand
17 the --
18 MS. HAMILTON: -- what you're saying.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- basics of the --
20 MS. HAMILTON: Right.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- of the problem
22 that we face in this particular case. That what
23 we appear to have here is a unique situation in
24 itself. And then even within that, your
25 particular parcels of property, based on the
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1 fact that they are divided, create an even more
2 unique -- if that's not --
3 MS. HAMILTON: Actually --
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- redundant --
5 MS. HAMILTON: -- they all may be in within
6 the Rotenberger tract. But it's very --
7 How would you say it?
8 I don't think it's right to be able to
9 group three parcels that we farmers that are
10 farming sugar cane land in with a bunch of
11 natural habitat land. And most of those tracts
12 are all 5 acres. The only ones -- 5 to 10 acres
13 possibly.
14 The only ones that I understand that are
15 larger parcels are myself, with the Parker
16 Family Trust; Mr. and Mrs. Guerrys, and
17 Mrs. Stuckeys. And we're all right there
18 together.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Uh-hum.
20 MS. HAMILTON: So we were a little
21 surprised that we were all grouped with all
22 these little 5 and 10 acre parcels --
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, Secretary, could
24 we hear from Ed, because I guess he's the one
25 kind of in the middle of this --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- please.
3 MR. KUESTER: Hi, Ms. Hamilton.
4 MS. HAMILTON: Fine. How are you?
5 MR. KUESTER: Ms. -- Ms. Hamilton and I
6 have gotten to know each other the last couple
7 weeks.
8 MS. HAMILTON: Yes, we have.
9 MR. KUESTER: You're right, Commissioner,
10 this is a complicated parcel, probably the most
11 complicated we're going to have to deal with.
12 And perhaps the -- the vehicle of
13 eminent domain will provide us an opportunity to
14 sit down and try to resolve something. It may
15 mean coming back to the Trustees and asking for
16 a boundary amendment to include --
17 My meter just expired.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Or maybe not.
19 MR. KUESTER: Or maybe not.
20 -- to come back and ask for a boundary
21 amendment.
22 Actually, there's been -- in some of -- of
23 her confusion and our communication with her,
24 has been over the last few months, we've also
25 been talking with Federal negotiators who are
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1 working on the Talisman purchase and the -- and
2 the sugar lands which her lessee is part of --
3 of that situation.
4 They had indicated an interest in -- in
5 acquiring the land on the east side. Apparently
6 that may or may not come -- come to be.
7 But that's what we would intend to do is to
8 work with the -- with the Federal government
9 and/or the Water Management District to see if
10 there's a buyer for the other side.
11 But what really has complicated our
12 negotiations is the fact -- the lease. We look
13 at the lease and the property as two interests
14 in this property, a fee interest and a lease
15 interest.
16 And while Mrs. Hamilton would prefer that
17 we separate those two and deal with her
18 separately, in fact, the two are intertwined and
19 can't be separated. We really --
20 MS. HAMILTON: I never said that, sir.
21 MR. KUESTER: We really are not in a
22 position to work out a settlement or some type
23 an agreement with her, unless it can also
24 include the lease.
25 Our offers to her, in the opinions of our
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1 appraisers, were that the value of the property
2 is for unencumbered fee simple title, and
3 that's -- and that's what our offers had been,
4 an offer of an amount of money if she could
5 deliver the property free and clear of the
6 lease.
7 Now, obviously she has a difficulty doing
8 that, and that's part of what this process will
9 deal with, is the -- is a resolution of the
10 leasehold interest.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes.
12 And if I may, Madam Secretary, then back to
13 where we started.
14 Let me know why moving to eminent domain
15 would give you, and, I think, Ms. Hamilton, much
16 greater latitude in continuing these
17 negotiations than what we've got right now
18 without it.
19 MR. KUESTER: Well, it will allow us to
20 perhaps separate those interests. It may be
21 necessary, for instance, to -- to litigate the
22 leasehold interest separate from -- from the
23 fee interest.
24 So, you know, I just -- I think it provides
25 us more flexibility in trying to work out an
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1 agreement with all the parties involved.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, of course, you
3 understand from a potential seller standpoint,
4 the words eminent domain create a certain degree
5 of terror because it's looked at as a
6 nonnegotiating position, potentially.
7 MR. KUESTER: Yes. But, of course, the
8 courts mandate that we mediate. And, in fact,
9 our own goal is, you know, a jury trial or
10 taking this to the -- to the jury trial
11 situation as is really not our goal. It's a
12 last resort.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, it sounds to
14 me what she's saying is that you're offering her
15 value for a property, but because she's got the
16 lease, it diminishes that worth to her. So
17 she's not really getting the value for her
18 property, and she wants you to recognize that
19 and recognize the lease. Seems reasonable to
20 me.
21 But -- you know, it's -- when you're taking
22 something from somebody, you need to pay them,
23 you know, a fair amount for what you've taken.
24 And the lease is -- is harming that, and --
25 I think in her eyes, and I think it's right.
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1 But it doesn't sound to me like if we do
2 this, you're going to get any more willing to
3 look at that. Talking about litigating the
4 lease separately? That doesn't sound very --
5 MS. HAMILTON: You can't do that.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- doesn't sound
7 like something I'd want somebody to say if they
8 were talking about my land.
9 You know, it sounds -- that doesn't sound
10 like a negotiation. That sounds more, I
11 don't know, hostile or something.
12 Am I -- am I off track here, or what?
13 MR. KUESTER: Well, we -- you know, and
14 we've talked earlier in the earlier item about
15 our appraisal process and what we bring to you.
16 The current appraisal we have, which is based on
17 two separate appraisals, gives a value for the
18 property, combined with a leasehold interest.
19 That's not a price that Mrs. Hamilton and
20 her family are willing to accept. And even
21 though the amount above that appraisal may be
22 something that -- that might be agreeable, it's
23 still -- the appraisal's based on the property
24 being free and clear without a lease.
25 So we have to figure out a way to separate
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1 the lease from the property.
2 If we were in the, quote, unquote, real
3 world, we would not be acquiring this with the
4 idea of eliminating the lease. The lease is a
5 market lease.
6 And, in fact, she had encouraged us to
7 acquire the property subject to the lease, and
8 continue to reap the revenues of the lease
9 payments off the property, but that's not what
10 our public mission -- our goal is here, is to
11 acquire the property. And we must remove the
12 lease because the -- the -- our long-term public
13 goal is for rehydration of this area for
14 restoration of the Everglades.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And yet she holds the
16 lease, which adds a degree of significance to
17 the asking price.
18 I mean, let's face it, if she didn't have a
19 lease, she --
20 MR. KUESTER: Yeah.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- wouldn't be asking
22 as much as she probably is for the property,
23 because it wouldn't have as much worth to it as
24 it does with the lease that's good till --
25 MR. KUESTER: In the opinion of two of
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1 our --
2 MS. HAMILTON: 2007.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- 2007.
4 MR. KUESTER: In the opinion of our two
5 appraisers, the value of the property and the
6 leasehold interest.
7 For instance, when DOT acquires property
8 with leases, they -- when they go through a
9 corporate -- and they run into leases every
10 day -- they deposit funds for -- based on that
11 appraisal, a registry of the Court and the fee
12 holder and the leaseholder then argue the
13 distribution. You know, what's the fee hold
14 interest, what's the leasehold interest worth.
15 And it's actually -- it's, you know, a
16 divvying up of those -- of that value.
17 We believe between --
18 MS. HAMILTON: I don't think that's going
19 to work in this case. But we'll see.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: What -- what would
21 work?
22 TREASURER NELSON: Well, may I ask a
23 question?
24 Yeah. And I'd like to ask your question,
25 too. What would work.
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1 But if -- if there is a dispute of value
2 here, and if Mrs. Hamilton is saying that her
3 land is worth more because it has a lease for
4 farming for sugar cane --
5 MR. KUESTER: Uh-hum.
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- then why isn't that
7 an issue that would be addressed by the
8 appraisers?
9 MR. KUESTER: And it was. The appraisers
10 were aware of the lease, and took the lease into
11 consideration in their appraisal. And the
12 amount of value that they came up with is -- is
13 less than what Mrs. Hamilton is asking for her
14 fee interest alone.
15 MS. CASTILLE: But more than just the land
16 alone.
17 MR. KUESTER: But more than just the land
18 alone.
19 TREASURER NELSON: And -- and how many
20 appraisals have been done on it?
21 MR. KUESTER: Two.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Two.
23 And both of those came in at approximately
24 the same amount?
25 MR. KUESTER: Yes.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: How long is
2 this lease for?
3 MR. KUESTER: Seven -- about seven more
4 years?
5 MS. HAMILTON: It's a 15-year lease. It's
6 good until April 30th of 2007.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: 2007?
8 MR. KUESTER: Right.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: When is
10 your --
11 MS. HAMILTON: It's a renewal lease that
12 we've had before. It was --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: When was it
14 renewed?
15 MS. HAMILTON: It was renewed --
16 let's see. It would have been April 30th of
17 '92.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Got a
19 problem?
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Is there any way
21 you -- that you could keep it in farming until
22 the lease runs out?
23 MR. KUESTER: Well, it --
24 MS. WETHERELL: Well, I think the
25 problem -- you'd have to have the
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1 Water Management District here to speak to
2 that.
3 But the reason that the law says that we
4 must purchase it has to do with the -- you know,
5 trying to rehydrate the Everglades. And so they
6 would have to look at it from that standpoint.
7 And it -- you know, I think one of the
8 things we were hoping is that once we moved on,
9 we would be able to try to find a partner that
10 could purchase on the other side.
11 Now, I don't know still whether that
12 resolves her lease problem. But that's part of
13 her issue is that she wants to sell all --
14 MS. HAMILTON: May I interject one other --
15 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
16 MS. HAMILTON: -- thing while we're all
17 here then.
18 The other thing that is very important to
19 interject in this issue is that in our lease,
20 the lessees have the right of first refusal to
21 purchase and to renew the lease.
22 So -- you know, that -- that's not going to
23 go away either.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Secretary Wetherell,
25 I've got one -- one question.
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1 Is this the first time that the proposal's
2 come forward for eminent domain to be used in
3 the Everglades area?
4 MS. WETHERELL: The Water Management
5 District has used eminent domain for
6 Everglades. We had -- when we negotiated the
7 EFA, the Department had said that we would
8 handle this particular tract, because we already
9 own some land here.
10 The Game and Fresh Water Fish Commission is
11 the managing agency, so we said we would handle
12 the purchase of this tract.
13 The Everglades Forever Act says that we --
14 we or the Water Management District shall
15 purchase this property, for purposes of
16 Everglades restoration.
17 So, you know, this is a -- it is really a
18 unique situation we're put in. I'm sure the
19 Legislature didn't contemplate this tangle that
20 we would be in. It seems to me though that,
21 you know, you almost have to get to a court
22 situation, given these circumstances, to be able
23 to resolve it.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The -- I'm sorry.
25 I was just going to ask: The legislation
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1 requires purchase by what date certain, if any?
2 MS. WETHERELL: Well, we have -- we're
3 supposed to have purchased by the end of this
4 year, this calendar year, in order for the
5 Water Management District to be -- begin to be
6 able to operate STA 5, Storm Water Treatment
7 Area 5. This land is part of STA 5.
8 So this is an important piece to be able to
9 acquire by this fall in order for STA 5 to move
10 ahead.
11 And I've got the language from the
12 statute. And it says that by the time of the
13 completion of the project, the STA, the State,
14 District, or other governmental authority shall
15 purchase the inholdings in the Rotenberger, and
16 blah, blah, blah.
17 So, you know, that's -- that's why we're
18 here in this tangle.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So you read that to
20 say that all of the pieces of the property that
21 are in Section 5 must be purchased and nailed
22 down by January 1.
23 MS. WETHERELL: All those --
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- to comply with the
25 law.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
2 And specifically the Legislature has said
3 the inholdings of the Rotenberger property. We
4 already own a good bit of the Rotenberger
5 property, and these are the inholdings that they
6 contemplated that they needed in order to be
7 able to restore the Everglades. This is part
8 of --
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And that
10 particular --
11 MS. WETHERELL: -- that process.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- tract of property
13 is --
14 MS. WETHERELL: It's in that project --
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- reverts to --
16 MS. WETHERELL: -- boundary.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- is a part of that
18 property.
19 MS. WETHERELL: The west side.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Not -- not -- yeah.
21 The west side, not the --
22 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- east side.
24 MS. WETHERELL: The west side of the
25 Miami Canal.
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The west side.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But hers -- hers is
4 just one property that you're asking
5 authority --
6 MS. WETHERELL: Correct.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Would it be --
8 would it be possible that we approve what you're
9 asking for, but accept her property and defer
10 that as a separate issue that we come back to at
11 a -- our next meeting, and maybe have a chance
12 for people to work on that?
13 MS. WETHERELL: You can certainly defer the
14 eminent domain piece of it. Our problem though
15 is that, you know --
16 MS. HAMILTON: The construction.
17 MS. WETHERELL: -- we are -- yeah.
18 -- we're under this construction
19 time line. And so what we do is we throw the
20 Water Management District off when we don't
21 perform.
22 But, you know, I think if -- that that's
23 just something that we have to recognize --
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Uh-hum.
25 MS. WETHERELL: -- that we can't keep up
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1 with the time line if we don't proceed now to
2 eminent domain.
3 We've made the necessary two offers in
4 order to be in the posture of still allowing
5 some time for the eminent domain in order to try
6 to stay on track. I believe we're going to be
7 off track a little bit as it is, quite
8 honestly. I don't know how we can get through
9 the process in a timely manner now, but we're
10 going to try.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, it would seem to
12 me -- I don't see where a deferral is really
13 going to solve any problem here.
14 It seems that the Legislature had specific
15 intent for the purchase of this property. And
16 I'm sure that there were discussions during the
17 legislative process and why they picked this
18 particular area.
19 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And it -- it further
21 seems to me that this is only the first of many
22 that the Cabinet's going to be dealing with.
23 So, you know, I think that, you know, they
24 probably need to -- to be prepared, because if,
25 in fact, the Legislature's intent is to further
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1 protect the Everglades, they're going -- they're
2 going to go forth and -- and basically let the
3 Executive Branch purchase this property.
4 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So I -- I think that we
6 need to --
7 MS. WETHERELL: May I --
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- need to make a
9 decision here.
10 Now, you've got one more speaker?
11 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, I do.
12 And may I make just one other point.
13 Kirby was just reminding me that you may
14 want to consider -- if you want to defer just
15 this one particular piece of property -- that
16 you may want to consider giving us the authority
17 to exceed the appraised value in order for us to
18 continue to try to negotiate --
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Without --
20 MS. WETHERELL: -- this owner.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- without utilizing
22 eminent domain? Do we have --
23 MS. WETHERELL: If you --
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the ability to
25 separate --
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1 MS. WETHERELL: -- if you don't --
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- the two?
3 MS. WETHERELL: -- want us to use
4 eminent domain in this case, then our only hope
5 at that -- at that point would be to be -- to be
6 able to negotiate and purchase the land.
7 Otherwise we can't comply with the law.
8 We either have to buy from a willing
9 seller, or we have to use eminent domain.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Secretary --
11 MS. WETHERELL: So --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Mortham, another
13 question that -- because I know we have another
14 speaker.
15 Aren't there two hundred and some odd other
16 persons in that area that we've not heard from?
17 From -- in other words, in order to --
18 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- fulfill the
20 legislative requirement --
21 MS. WETHERELL: Right. Exactly. That's
22 why we're --
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- we're talking
24 about one or two parcels here today. But there
25 are some --
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Right.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- two hundred and --
3 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- thirty or so other
5 parcels of property --
6 MS. WETHERELL: Correct.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- that we're looking
8 at as well --
9 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- that would fall
11 under the eminent domain?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Right. In the Rotenberger
13 tract.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: In the Rotenberger
15 tract.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And your second
18 speaker, just so I can forecast where we're
19 going with all of this, is relative to which --
20 MS. WETHERELL: She is a small acreage --
21 5-acre tract that she would like to talk about.
22 She has a -- an unusual situation, too.
23 Do you -- would you like to hear from her
24 now?
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. We'll --
2 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like to ask a
3 question before we do.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Go right ahead.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary, would
6 this be a way out of our impasse right now:
7 That DEP could examine altering the call
8 boundary to include the Hamilton lands, which
9 are presently outside of the call boundary. You
10 need the additional land anyway.
11 So does that solve your problem?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Number one, yes, you
13 can amend the boundary and put the property on
14 the -- the east side into the boundary.
15 We don't need the property -- I think you
16 would need to -- we would need to ask the
17 Water Management District if they need the
18 property. But we don't need the property.
19 I would expect that it would be in that
20 boundary already if the Water Management
21 District needed the property.
22 Do I have anybody who knows that?
23 I don't think so.
24 MR. MALLISON: Chuck Rinaldi --
25 MS. WETHERELL: Chuck, do you want to
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1 address that?
2 MR. RINALDI: I'm Chuck Rinaldi with the
3 Water Management District.
4 The intent is to -- to acquire all the
5 property south of a given line that runs
6 east-west across the agriculture area. This
7 property is within that area I just described to
8 you, yes.
9 MS. WETHERELL: So you would -- you would
10 want the property.
11 MR. RENALDI: We would want the property
12 eventually, yes.
13 TREASURER NELSON: So does that suggest
14 that altering the call boundary solves your
15 problem, or does not solve your problem?
16 MS. WETHERELL: Well, we don't know whether
17 it solves it from the standpoint of the owner
18 accepting our offer of that property once it's
19 included in there.
20 I think what you're hearing is that we are
21 far apart in what we can offer.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just one
23 question.
24 You say that South Florida Water Management
25 District is buying some of the property, and
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1 you're buying some of the property by agreement.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Whereas they
4 could buy all this property --
5 MS. WETHERELL: They're buying --
6 Yes. They've been buying most of the
7 property for the --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So --
9 MS. WETHERELL: -- STA.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So why are
11 we involved in this one? Why doesn't the South
12 Florida Water Management District do it? They
13 have different rules and regulations, different
14 hoops -- maybe a different hoop to jump through,
15 to where if it's purchased through them, it
16 might be easier.
17 MS. WETHERELL: Well, two reasons.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: They have
19 more stacks of money than we do.
20 MS. WETHERELL: They still have the same --
21 they've still got the same issue though in terms
22 of, you know, their appraisals, et cetera.
23 There are two reasons why we're doing it.
24 One, during the negotiations, we agreed that we
25 would, since we were the principal land owners
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1 of the Rotenberger, that we would help them with
2 this property, that we would negotiate this.
3 It's a function of they've got all this
4 other property they're trying to acquire,
5 negotiate for the other STAs.
6 So we had agreed years ago that we would
7 assist them with this. And I think we have a
8 gentleman's agreement that we would do this for
9 many years. So we have been working that way.
10 MR. RENALDI: Could I make another
11 statement?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Sure.
13 MR. RENALDI: The property in the -- within
14 the Rotenberger project will all be rehydrated.
15 It's -- I guess nothing is impossible.
16 But it would be very difficult to leave out
17 a given property, because we're going to
18 rehydrate the whole area. So I urge you not to
19 delay this -- the acquisition of this property.
20 Perhaps you can give DEP some flexibility
21 to negotiate further in that failing to continue
22 on with the eminent domain.
23 But I urge you not to delay this
24 acquisition, because if you delay this
25 acquisition, we're not able to rehydrate the
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1 area.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I think based
3 on the legislation, that's not even an issue.
4 We -- we, according to the legislation, don't
5 have the ability to delay this. We've got a
6 date certain that we've talked about that we've
7 got to meet.
8 I think what we're trying to do, if I hear
9 the discussions and some of the questions right,
10 is see if, in fact, we can go forward as quickly
11 as possible with those areas that don't seem to
12 be in dispute, and recognize that this one piece
13 of property is essential to the -- to the
14 hydration process as a whole, and see if there's
15 a way to continue the negotiations process,
16 recognizing that we've got actually two pieces
17 of property, one on each side of the road, that
18 go together to make a whole.
19 And what I'm trying to figure, and I think
20 I'm hearing pieces of it -- Commissioner Nelson
21 I think may have offered one -- is to try to
22 find a way to separate this parcel, at least for
23 now, from the other parcels, and yet still
24 continue to give DEP the flexibility that they
25 need to rise in negotiations; or fall, based on
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1 the -- based on the process.
2 I'd like to go back and revisit -- I know
3 we have another speaker, Madam Secretary. And
4 it's up to you. If you want to go with the
5 other speaker first, we can go back and --
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I think we ought to at
7 least -- yes, I think we should hear from her.
8 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. Alice LaPresti.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Or him or --
10 Or she.
11 MS. LaPRESTI: Hello. My name is
12 Alice LaPresti; and this is my husband, Joe.
13 And unfortunately I've sort of been pushed
14 into this situation.
15 From my understanding, the DEP started this
16 in somewhere, like, October of 1996. I
17 purchased my land in April of 1997. Evidently
18 the prior owners knew what was going on with the
19 DEP, and did not disclose this to me.
20 I have 5 acres out in the Rotenberg area on
21 what is a 20-- 20 acre landing field. It's
22 called Matthews Airfield.
23 I purchased the land for $8,000 plus the
24 property taxes of -- for 1996. And I told a
25 gentleman here last week that I paid $8,000.
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1 Bottom line was I paid $8,294.22, which was $200
2 in 1996 property taxes.
3 In 1996, my -- when I purchased it for the
4 $8,000, my land value -- my taxable value was
5 $15,000, 10,000 of which was land; and 5,300,
6 which was a building.
7 Out of my whole area, Section 35, I am the
8 only property owner out there that is paying
9 taxes on what we call in our area a wilderness
10 lodge. And other people refer to as fishing
11 camps. But this is a wilderness lodge.
12 Now, in 1997, our property taxes went
13 down. Our land value was $10,000. And in 1997,
14 it went down to $2,000.
15 I mentioned this last week, and showed them
16 that my property taxes were $7300 for this
17 year. And in May of 1998, the DEP offered me
18 $2,812.50. And in July of 1996, they offered me
19 $3,375.
20 Number one, I do not wish to sell. I
21 bought this land so that my husband and my
22 family and I could go out there and enjoy
23 weekends.
24 We are on a runway, we are up high and
25 dry. It's my understanding that they want to
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1 flood the area a maximum of 18 inches. We were
2 just out there mowing lawns Sunday.
3 We have 12 to 14 inches right now. I could
4 live with the 16 inches. I'm up high and dry.
5 We're in the middle of processing -- we're
6 in the middle of rebuilding our building, and --
7 We have the map here, if you wanted to see
8 the map. When I contacted DEP and asked them
9 what were they going to do, they told us they
10 were going to restore the Everglades.
11 I'm sorry. To me, restoring the Everglades is
12 not digging another manmade canal.
13 I don't ever recall, out of all the stories
14 I've ever heard of how God created earth, that
15 the DEP or the Army Corps of Engineers was
16 involved. And I believe that restoring the
17 Everglades --
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: If they were, he'd
19 have rested more than one day.
20 MS. LaPRESTI: I think that restoring the
21 Everglades does not mean putting in another
22 canal. There's enough canals and dikes out
23 there now.
24 The DEP had no idea that there were --
25 there were buildings out there at all.
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1 And basically we oppose the eminant domain,
2 and we feel that the prices that we've been
3 offered for our land is not justified.
4 And that's really about it.
5 MR. LaPRESTI: There are other people out
6 there that do have wilderness homes. And they
7 haven't come in, but they were supposed to be in
8 here.
9 There are other places out there that
10 people do go to.
11 MS. LaPRESTI: Now, there are six -- they
12 state on here that there are six people that
13 oppose the eminent domain is what it states on
14 the bottom of the item.
15 And then they also state that there are
16 236 people that they haven't even heard from.
17 So there's a total of two hundred and forty
18 something people that six oppose and 236 people,
19 we haven't even -- you haven't even heard from.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary --
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
22 TREASURER NELSON: -- may I ask --
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Certainly.
24 TREASURER NELSON: -- a question of the
25 Department, if I may?
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1 Madam Secretary, if you could direct us to
2 one of your staff. I'd like a commentary by the
3 Department on the question of value with regard
4 to the story that the lady has just chronicled
5 for us in which in 198-- in 1996, she purchased
6 this land for $8,000, and the offer for
7 repurchase of the land is only at $3,000.
8 How can that differential -- typically
9 appraisals are all summed up by the phrase, the
10 worth of a thing is the price it will bring.
11 And if she, in fact, bought it for $8,000
12 only two years ago, how is it that she's being
13 offered $3,000 for it?
14 MR. SANTANGINI: John Santangini, Chief of
15 the Bureau of Appraisal.
16 These appraisals, Commissioner, were made
17 on a mass appraisal basis. That's a type of
18 appraisal technique commonly used by property
19 appraisers where unit values are determined on a
20 broad geographic area. And these appraisers
21 used that methodology in determining these
22 values.
23 The conclusions they reach were justified
24 in their reports, and were supported in those
25 reports.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Now, obviously
2 you have an iteration here from the mass
3 appraisals.
4 You've got a landowner that for an arm's
5 length transaction paid $8,000. So what is in
6 the mechanism for DEP, or anybody else, the
7 Water Management District, to adjust for those
8 kind of iterations?
9 MR. SANTANGINI: Well, what would have to
10 happen would -- we would have to go out there
11 and have an appraiser make an inspection of this
12 particular property, taking note of all of the
13 similarities and differences that this property
14 has with respect to other properties in the
15 market.
16 Under a mass appraisal format, properties
17 are generally categorized into groups that all
18 have common characteristics. And then values
19 are associated with those types of properties,
20 and placed upon broad groupings of those
21 properties.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. You know the
23 story now. Why has that not -- that alternative
24 procedure been availed for this lady?
25 MR. SANTANGINI: Well, we were asked to get
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1 an appraisal done as soon as possible, and do it
2 on a broad mass basis, a tremendous number of
3 properties. And this is the only technique that
4 we have to do that.
5 TREASURER NELSON: Well then, I think your
6 technique is faulty. If it is not compensating
7 somebody who just bought a piece of property
8 two years ago for 8,000, you're offering them
9 three, your appraisal methods are faulty.
10 MR. SANTANGINI: Well, we can --
11 TREASURER NELSON: As long as her
12 acquisition was in an arm's length transaction.
13 MR. SANTANGINI: Yes. We can go back and
14 have this property reappraised.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Well, how many more out
16 there are like this?
17 MR. SANTANGINI: I don't know.
18 MS. LaPRESTI: Maybe 236 that we haven't
19 heard from.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Ma'am, who did you --
21 Over here.
22 Who did you purchase your property from?
23 MS. LaPRESTI: We purchased our property
24 from a Nathan Allen, Orson Potter, a
25 Paul Diamond, and Charles Diamond. It was
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1 four men.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And did they own
3 more property than just your 5 acres?
4 MS. LaPRESTI: No, they didn't.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So it was just
6 your -- your tract. And you bought it just from
7 those four individuals. They had no other --
8 MS. LaPRESTI: Correct.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- property in the
10 area.
11 MS. LaPRESTI: No.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
13 Okay. Going back to the first speaker --
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary,
15 could I just real quick follow up with one --
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Certainly.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- question along
18 that --
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- same line?
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Was there a -- did
23 you say there was an appraisal done on the
24 property when you purchased it from the four
25 owners?
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1 MS. LaPRESTI: No, there was no appraisal
2 done on the property.
3 It's my understanding -- I brought this up
4 last week -- and I was told that the property
5 taxes are governed by the County in which the
6 property lies, which is true.
7 But I was also told that based on the
8 movement of land and the way the land is
9 selling, or being developed, or this or that,
10 raises or lowers the property taxes.
11 Now, the way I see the DEP taking their
12 appraisals is they had from October of '96, or
13 whenever they started this, until I was
14 originally contacted in May of 1997, to -- I use
15 the word, for sale, to buy properties under for
16 sale from individuals at a much lower value, and
17 that in its sense created the value in that area
18 to go down.
19 When they walked in there and they started
20 sending out letters telling everybody, we're
21 going to give you $200, and this is the way it's
22 going to be, and people just started signing
23 contracts and mailing it in to them, and they
24 started mailing out checks, well, of course,
25 West Palm Beach said, you know, wow --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Okay. But I'm trying
2 to -- the -- the significant amount of $8,000 is
3 not relative to the -- to the taxation on the
4 property. That's just what you paid an acre for
5 it, correct?
6 MS. LaPRESTI: Correct.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- $8,000 an acre,
8 which was an agreement reached by you --
9 MS. LaPRESTI: $8,000 for 5 acres.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: For 5 acres.
11 -- reached by you and the four sellers.
12 Not based on an appraisal that it was --
13 MS. LaPRESTI: No, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- an $8,000 tract of
15 property, just an agreement that you had
16 reached.
17 MS. LaPRESTI: Correct.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The DEP is now,
19 I think, suggesting, based on a mass appraisal
20 of property, that there is the possibility that
21 it would -- if someone had it appraised before
22 your purchase -- appraised it at significantly
23 lower. And I'm saying potentially this is
24 true. Potentially at a significantly lower rate
25 than the $8,000 that you paid for it.
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1 MS. LaPRESTI: Right.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm not saying you
3 got snookered for the parcel --
4 MS. LaPRESTI: No. What --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- of property. You
6 wanted it, they wanted to sell it, $8,000 was
7 the deal that you consummated. But I --
8 I'm not trying to defend anybody. I'm just
9 trying to see where you're coming from as the
10 Department.
11 And it appears to me it's a little bit like
12 a blue book transition on a car. If someone
13 sells me an automobile, and I'm willing to pay
14 $40,000 for it, and then look to turn it in and
15 sell it to a dealer, and the dealer wants to
16 give me blue book, which is $10,000, and I say,
17 gee, but I paid $40,000 for it, he's going to
18 say, sorry you did that, because here's the blue
19 book cost on it, and you probably should have
20 paid ten.
21 And I'm not -- I'm not trying to say that
22 that's right or wrong. But I think I see a
23 little more clearly at least how we got to this
24 podium today.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me -- let me --
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1 try and understand something that was said
2 earlier about the tax rolls.
3 That, in fact, you paid back taxes,
4 two hundred and some odd dollars. And -- and
5 then the tax assessor valued the property at
6 $10,000 did I hear you say?
7 And 5,000 for the building?
8 MS. LaPRESTI: Prior to my spending the
9 $8,000 to buy the land, I went to West Palm
10 Beach, and I pulled the tax records from the
11 property appraisers.
12 I noticed that the land value was $10,000,
13 and the building value was fift-- was $5,300.
14 So I said, I have --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I --
16 MS. LaPRESTI: -- $15,300, I'm going to
17 spend $8,000 for this piece --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand.
19 MS. LaPRESTI: -- of land.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I just wanted to
21 clarify the point that the tax appraisals had it
22 at $15,000. That's -- was my point.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Well, Madam Secretary,
24 may I ask one other clarifying question?
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: You know, why are we
2 reinventing the wheel? Why --
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
4 TREASURER NELSON: -- I mean, here we are,
5 going through all of this.
6 All six of us are sitting up here getting
7 involved in this thing. We've got to have the
8 property for the restoration of the Everglades.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
10 TREASURER NELSON: And so what we're
11 supposed to do is to adopt an eminent domain
12 procedure that allows us to move on.
13 But I think that there are serious
14 questions that have been raised here about the
15 adequate valuation of land.
16 So is not there in the eminent domain
17 process a mediation process which would adjust
18 for these different things?
19 MS. WETHERELL: Yes.
20 And -- and one thing that I wanted to say
21 is that I was back here talking to our
22 acquisition staff. And they've really just
23 known for about two weeks about this structure
24 that you have, and these improvements that
25 apparently this group appraisal process didn't
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1 find.
2 I asked if we've heard from any of the
3 other two hundred plus, and we've heard from one
4 other individual who says there is an
5 improvement that they don't think was perhaps
6 included.
7 So I think we should go back and take a
8 look at these. I mean, number one, we've made
9 offers based on an appraisal that was a group
10 appraisal.
11 So I think we can go back in this case and
12 look at this, and look at the other individual
13 who's come forward, and said that they have an
14 improvement that they don't think was
15 recognized.
16 So we can do that.
17 But you're right, Mr. Treasurer, I mean,
18 the bigger issue is: How do we comply with the
19 law and move ahead, and either acquire these
20 from willing sellers, or through the
21 eminent domain process.
22 And we will go back and look at these two
23 parcels that have improvements that we did not
24 know about until within the last two weeks. We
25 will do that. And we will know then whether we
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1 can continue to negotiate with a willing --
2 hopefully, a willing seller. But --
3 TREASURER NELSON: Well, I --
4 MS. WETHERELL: -- the other --
5 TREASURER NELSON: -- I'll tell you,
6 Madam Secretary, then: What I'm going to do is
7 I'm going to invoke a parliamentary procedure
8 which will, in effect, allow this issue to be
9 revisited without holding it up.
10 I am going to vote yes on the
11 eminent domain, and I am going to preserve my
12 right to move to reconsider at the next Cabinet
13 meeting.
14 And in the meantime, I want to have the DEP
15 come to us and tell us what has happened with
16 DEP, or the Water Management District, in
17 resolving these valuation disputes that have
18 arisen.
19 MS. WETHERELL: May I --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Just for -- just for
21 the two people with structures, or for this --
22 for the first --
23 TREASURER NELSON: For the two people that
24 are before us, which is all that I know about
25 today.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, no, because
2 there's one that she's said that's got a
3 structure --
4 MS. WETHERELL: There's apparently one --
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- that's --
6 MS. WETHERELL: -- other individual that is
7 not here that has contacted our staff to say
8 that they have an improvement that maybe wasn't
9 considered.
10 May I make one other statement,
11 Madam Chairman?
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Certainly.
13 MS. WETHERELL: I mentioned a minute ago
14 that you may want to consider giving us the
15 authority to continue to negotiate. You may
16 just want to give us the authority to exceed
17 appraised value, and -- and then make us
18 accountable when we come back to you for what we
19 do.
20 That way in the first case, the -- the
21 Hamilton case, we would have an opportunity to
22 continue to negotiate.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I'd like to
24 comment to that.
25 If the Treasurer's motion was to come back
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1 and report on these three cases, and you came
2 back and you said that we wanted to go over the
3 appraised value by X, because of thus and so,
4 I think that would be acceptable, at least to
5 me.
6 MS. WETHERELL: I'm not sure we have --
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: However --
8 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- as a general overall
10 rule, I think that -- you know, you're --
11 I think that that is a very difficult situation,
12 because in the long haul, I mean, the Cabinet is
13 going to be responsible for buying an awful lot
14 of land in the Everglades. And the -- and I
15 do --
16 And I'm very sorry. I forgot your name.
17 But if you could come back just for a second --
18 MS. HAMILTON: Peggy Hamilton.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And you're --
20 you said you had how many acres?
21 MS. HAMILTON: On the west side of the
22 canal, we have approximately 513; on the east
23 side of the canal, we have approximately 763.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Seven hundred and
25 fifty-three. And you've got a --
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1 MS. HAMILTON: No. Seven hundred and
2 sixty-three --
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: --sixty-three.
4 MS. HAMILTON: -- for a total of 1276, more
5 or less.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. And it is -- it
7 is all under lease now?
8 MS. HAMILTON: All under the same lease.
9 It is a renewal of a lease that we've previously
10 had for 15 years --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That was -- that was
12 renewed in 1992.
13 MS. HAMILTON: And they have a right of
14 first refusal to purchase, and to renew the
15 lease.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, they couldn't
17 very well purchase it if, in fact --
18 MS. HAMILTON: Well, I just thought I'd
19 better mention it to you.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And that -- and that --
21 that lessee is who?
22 MS. HAMILTON: The Fanjul family,
23 Okeelanta Corporation.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. So is there
25 anybody here that wants to speak on behalf of --
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1 of FLO-SUN on this issue? Because I think
2 that -- I mean, obviously that is -- I mean,
3 we're talking a fairly large issue here.
4 Okay. So they -- they are perfectly fine
5 with whatever happens.
6 You know, I just -- I just want to make
7 perfectly clear what your motion really means
8 here.
9 TREASURER NELSON: No, I have not made a
10 motion. I have --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Oh, I thought --
12 TREASURER NELSON: No.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- I thought that
14 was --
15 TREASURER NELSON: No. I have stated my
16 intention to vote for the eminent domain, but
17 that I will preserve the right to move to
18 reconsider the vote by which the eminent domain
19 passed if I'm not satisfied by the next meeting
20 that they have come forth and in good faith
21 negotiated with these land owners, particularly
22 in this outrageous case where she pays 8,000 for
23 it --
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
25 TREASURER NELSON: -- and they're --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I understand.
2 TREASURER NELSON: -- offering her 3,000.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I understand your
4 motion.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Secretary --
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Or your lack of motion.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm sorry.
8 Secretary, does that -- does that motion
9 still give you the same latitude that your
10 recommended motion would provide you in the
11 negotiations process with the three parties that
12 are -- we're talking about today?
13 MS. WETHERELL: Well, the -- if it's -- if
14 it becomes a motion, I don't think it includes
15 the ability for us to exceed the appraised
16 value --
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Does not eminent --
18 does not the use of eminent domain afford you
19 that luxury?
20 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, eminent domain does.
21 If we -- if we know that it can be repealed. I
22 need to ask a lawyer whether or not we really
23 can move ahead if we know that it could be
24 repealed --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Because I think I
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1 understand your --
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, but we're talking
3 two weeks. We're talking about
4 September the 23rd is our next meeting.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I mean, the bottom
6 line, Secretary, is, is that the luxury afforded
7 by eminent domain, to be able to exceed the
8 current price, would be revisited -- the whole
9 of -- eminent domain issue would be revisted if
10 Commissioner Nelson opted to use his ability at
11 the next meeting in two weeks to say we didn't
12 get anywhere with it, so we want to revisit the
13 whole issue of eminent domain.
14 Correct?
15 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: It's just a
17 different -- a different way to get to the same
18 point in time, it appears to me, as long as --
19 TREASURER NELSON: It's the only --
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- we reserve that
21 right.
22 TREASURER NELSON: It's the only
23 parlimentary tool I have available.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Let me try
25 to explain this. Maybe I can explain a little
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1 something here.
2 What if we were to separate the Hamilton
3 case from all the other cases. Because what you
4 say about the Hamilton case, and Ms. Hamilton
5 just said that -- that FLO-SUN has a -- a first
6 right of refusal.
7 Now, that's pretty important. I'm glad you
8 emphasized it. Because if we give any more
9 authority to the Department, FLO-SUN's going to,
10 okay, we'll pay that. We're just going to be
11 chasing our tail.
12 So in that case, I don't see any -- any way
13 out, other than eminent domain.
14 Now, when it comes to the other issue with
15 the structure you have, I'm sure there are a lot
16 of other structures out there, obviously I think
17 a better approach would be to -- to pay you for
18 your structure, and offer you something that you
19 might really like before we do eminent domain.
20 It's like -- I'd like to see them both
21 separated.
22 And so at a point in time, Madam Chair,
23 when you want motions, I'll -- I'll just go in
24 the line and make mine, you know, when -- after
25 everybody else's.
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1 But I'd be leaning towards the separation
2 of these two very separate issues.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Well, we're --
4 we're in the -- a mode of a motion.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. I'll
6 make a motion limited to the Hamilton case that
7 we do authorize eminent domain at the request of
8 the Department.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Will you say that
10 again?
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I move staff
12 recommendation as it goes to the Hamilton case
13 only. And then we'll deal with the other issue
14 next.
15 TREASURER NELSON: And I second the motion.
16 MS. WETHERELL: And -- and do you not want
17 to include the other two hundred something
18 parcels? Are you saying --
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Oh, okay.
20 MS. WETHERELL: -- we're only going to move
21 ahead --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I --
23 I'm kind of wondering, how many of those
24 200 parcels have anything on it? Do you know?
25 I mean, is there a way of -- because if
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1 you -- there may be more than three properties
2 out there that have parcels on it.
3 MS. WETHERELL: We have -- we know of maybe
4 one other -- one other person has come forward
5 and said that there's something on their
6 property that they think we should consider.
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay. I --
8 MS. WETHERELL: So what if we were to carve
9 out --
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: All un-- all
11 properties without structures.
12 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So I'll
14 include in the motion all properties without
15 structures. And that may only be three or
16 four. Because there is a structure -- I mean,
17 after we --
18 MS. HAMILTON: May I say something for a --
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Pardon me?
20 MS. HAMILTON: May I interject something
21 else y'all may be aware -- not be aware of in a
22 few other parcels?
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Sure. Go ahead.
24 MS. HAMILTON: Okay. My two neighbors,
25 Mr. and Mrs. Guerry, who have approximately
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1 280 acres; and Mrs. Stuckey, who has
2 approximately 40 acres, if you allow the
3 eminent domain to go ahead, and from the
4 information that I have seen, they wanted to
5 take those properties by November 1st.
6 And if you do that at that time, and do not
7 allow them to get their cane off the property,
8 that's going to be a very expensive proposition
9 for the State, because harvesting sugar cane is
10 not cheap. And their -- their crops are due to
11 be harvested in January.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I'm sure the
13 Department can take --
14 MS. HAMILTON: I thought I'd --
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- care of
16 all that.
17 MS. HAMILTON: -- just mention that.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If we're not
19 busy, we can go and --
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yeah, I may have time.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: --
22 volunteer.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, I mean,
24 unfortunately --
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: We've been
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1 raising Cain for four years. What's --
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: You know, the
3 Legislature set a date for something to happen.
4 And it's incumbent upon this Cabinet to carry
5 out that action.
6 Secretary, do you have anything else on
7 that motion? Is there any misunderstanding --
8 MS. WETHERELL: I think you need to hear
9 from this attorney, who's our eminent domain --
10 MR. SCANLAN: I'm Bob Scanlan with the
11 Attorney General's Office, and we'll be handling
12 the condemnation.
13 When we go to acquire these properties,
14 we've got to prove three things to the Judge:
15 We've got to prove that it's necessary for a
16 public purpose; that we have a legitimate
17 appraisal, and that's -- we'll address one of
18 the issues about the appraisals.
19 The Judge won't give us the land if he
20 makes a determination we don't have a legitimate
21 appraisal. That's one of the things we have to
22 prove up when we go in front of the Judge.
23 As to the crop being left on the land or
24 not, that's another thing that -- under the
25 statute, the Judge has the authority to decide
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1 when possession actually transfers. Title may
2 transfer, but he may say, State, you don't get
3 possession of that land till January 30th when
4 the crop's in, or whatever.
5 So those are all things that the Judge will
6 consider in the proceeding that we can handle
7 and negotiate as part of the eminent domain
8 proceeding.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: In other words, any
10 objections that these people have could be
11 brought to the Judge. And I think they're
12 entitled to legal representation; is that
13 right?
14 MR. SCANLAN: That's right.
15 The State will pay for their lawyers as
16 well. That's right.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Okay.
18 MR. KUESTER: The District has indicated
19 their construction schedule. There's a letting,
20 and there's construction start, and ability to
21 work around.
22 Things like sugar -- you know, removal of
23 sugar harvesting, we -- they can work that into
24 their construction schedule. So obviously the
25 destruction of a valuable crop would not be
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1 something that would be -- that we would be
2 looking to do.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Any other
4 discussion?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Maybe I'm
6 complicating it further, Madam Chair.
7 But what if we just -- if it's okay with
8 the person seconding the motion, I would just
9 move staff recommendation based upon what
10 Mr. Scanlan stated. I believe they're going to
11 work out this issue --
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could I -- could I
13 just ask, because I know how complicated all of
14 this is. And I think it would be worthy, just
15 for no other reason than these good people, to
16 make sure we very carefully restate exactly what
17 it is we're about to do here. I think -- do
18 here.
19 Just so that they understand when they walk
20 out of the room what it's going to mean to them
21 individually.
22 So anybody that wants to take a shot at
23 that, feel free. But I just want to make sure
24 that they understand what we're about to do.
25 Secretary, you want to take a whack?
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1 MS. WETHERELL: If we're talking about
2 moving -- if the motion is to move staff
3 recommendation; is that correct?
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's correct.
5 MS. WETHERELL: Okay. What we would be
6 doing -- what the Department would be doing, is
7 that we will go back, and we will look at the
8 appraisals on those properties that have
9 improvements, people that come forward, or we
10 know, we'll go back and we'll look at that. And
11 we'll see if we can continue to negotiate then
12 with willing sellers.
13 If you give us the -- the motion would
14 include though that we will be given the
15 eminent domain authority, and then we would
16 proceed with that.
17 Meanwhile, working with those where we
18 still think there's a chance to negotiate
19 something with a willing seller.
20 The Court then would be in the posture, as
21 you heard from Mr. Scanlan, of being able to
22 deal with these peculiarities that we really
23 don't have the wherewithal or authority to
24 solve, but the Court can.
25 So that's the way I think it would proceed
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1 in a nutshell. And I --
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And then -- and then,
3 as I understand it, General, you were saying
4 that then we could take up the other issue
5 separately?
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No. No.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: This is --
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: There would be no
9 separate issue. Right?
10 MS. WETHERELL: Yeah. Mr. Odom wants me to
11 point out that it's a jury of their peers that
12 will decide, you know, what the award is, what
13 they will be paid and all. It's not just an
14 individual judge.
15 So I think there's more fairness built into
16 it perhaps. So --
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Okay. Does everybody
18 understand the process at this point?
19 MS. LaPRESTI: I want to ask one question,
20 because I'm a little confused. Because it
21 states down here on the bottom that the land
22 will be in coop with the South -- the
23 Florida Game and Fresh Water Commission and the
24 South Florida Water Management.
25 Now, to me, in reading that, that means
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1 that there will still be a hunting season,
2 because I know Game and Fresh Water Commission,
3 if they're going to exist, they're going to sell
4 licenses for hunting and fishing.
5 And the South Florida Water Management:
6 Now, if they're still in that area, and they're
7 still going to be coop owners in that area, and
8 they're still going to control; we're still
9 going to have hunting and fishing, which means
10 we're still going to have boats, we're still
11 going to have air boats, we're still going to
12 have buggies, we're still going to have tracks;
13 we're still going to have a hunting season and
14 everything else, why can't I have my 5 acres?
15 You're still going to let everybody in, and
16 there's still going to be public in there
17 hunting and fishing and everything else. Why
18 can't I have my 5 acres? I don't even hunt and
19 fish. I just go out to my property and relax
20 for the weekend.
21 MS. WETHERELL: You know, she -- she has a
22 good point. But unfortunately the law says that
23 we shall purchase this property, and the
24 property will be owned by the State.
25 The Game Commission has had a long-term
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1 lease on the Rotenberger tract. They do,
2 indeed, provide hunting on that property, and
3 they intend to continue, is my understanding. I
4 don't know if anybody from the Game Commission
5 is here.
6 But what I've been told for years is that
7 it is compatible to hydrate this property, to
8 put more water on it, and it's compatible with
9 hunting.
10 Is that the way you understand it? Is that
11 how the District understands it?
12 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary, just so
13 we get in the proper parliamentary procedure,
14 the General has moved, I will second the motion.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
16 TREASURER NELSON: And I'm going to call
17 for the question very shortly.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
19 MR. RENALDI: The Everglades Forever Act
20 included an area called Browns Farm, owned by
21 the State, managed by the Game and Fish.
22 The Everglades Forever Act directed that
23 substitute lands be acquired to mitigate that
24 because the Brown's Farm was open to the public.
25 It directed that the Rotenberger tract be
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1 acquired as part mitigation for the
2 Browns Farm. So the lady is correct.
3 Rotenberger tract will be open to the public.
4 To my knowledge, there will not be
5 improvements on the property. And any
6 recreational uses would be subservient to the
7 water uses, the reflooding of the area.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Thank you.
9 If there is no further discussion, we will
10 take a -- a vote.
11 All those in favor of the motion, say aye.
12 THE CABINET: Aye.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Those opposed, no.
14 Motion carries.
15 TREASURER NELSON: Now, Madam Secretary, I
16 will not make the motion to reconsider now,
17 because that would, in effect, hold in abeyance
18 the action that we just took.
19 But I will preserve my right to move to
20 reconsider at the next Cabinet meeting, subject
21 to us -- collectively us, the Governor and the
22 Cabinet -- being satisfied that these people are
23 being dealt justly with.
24 MS. WETHERELL: Thank you.
25 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you.
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1
2 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
3 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
4 *
5 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
6 12:27 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 172 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 21ST day of SEPTEMBER, 1998.
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR 100 Salem Court 20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301 850/878-2221 21
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