Cabinet
Affairs |
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2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
6 DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
7 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
8 MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION
TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
9 IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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The above agencies came to be heard before
11 THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Secretary Mortham,
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
12 The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
June 25, 1996, commencing at approximately 9:41 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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22 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
23 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
24 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
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BOB MILLIGAN
5 Comptroller
6 SANDRA B. MORTHAM
Secretary of State
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BOB BUTTERWORTH
8 Attorney General
9 BILL NELSON
Treasurer
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FRANK T. BROGAN
11 Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
June 25, 1996
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
4 Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Approved 5
6 3 Approved 6
4 Approved 6
7 5 Deferred 8
6 Approved 7
8 7 Approved 7
9 DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
10 Executive Director)
11 1 Approved 9
2 Approved 9
12 3 Approved 11
13 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by L.H. Fuchs,
14 Executive Director)
15 1 Approved 14
2 Approved 14
16 3 Approved 15
17 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Robert L. Bedford, Ph.D.,
18 Deputy Commissioner)
19 1 Approved 23
2 Approved 19, 24
20 3 Approved 20
4 Approved 21
21 5 Approved 21
6 Approved 22
22 7 Approved 22
8 Approved 22
23 9 Withdrawn 23
10 Approved 23
24 11 Approved 23
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
June 25, 1996
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1 I N D E X
(Continued)
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ITEM ACTION PAGE
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ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
4 (Presented by Robert B. Bradley, Ph.D.,
Secretary)
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1 Approved 39
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MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION:
7 (Presented by Russell S. Nelson, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
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A Approved 40
9 B Approved 40
C Approved 41
10 D Approved 41
E Approved 60
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BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
12 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
13 (Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
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1 Approved 61
15 2 Approved 61
3 Approved 61
16 4 Deferred 62
17 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 64
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
June 25, 1996
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:04 a.m.)
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: We will move on to the
4 Division of Bond Finance.
5 Okay. While we're getting ready for the
6 Division of Bond Finance, let's take note that
7 our next Cabinet meeting will be held on
8 July 9th.
9 We're ready.
10 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of
11 the minutes of the June 13th meeting.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Without objection, it
15 passes.
16 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is adoption of
17 a resolution authorizing the issuance and
18 competitive sale of not exceeding two hundred
19 and seventy-five million for Department of
20 Transportation right-of-way acquisition.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Without objection,
24 passes.
25 MR. WATKINS: Item number 3 is adoption of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
June 25, 1996
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1 a resolution authorizing the issuance and sale
2 of not exceeding 19.1 million dollars of capital
3 outlay bonds for education.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, approved.
9 MR. WATKINS: Item number 4 is adoption of
10 a resolution authorizing the competitive sale of
11 not exceeding two hundred and twelve million
12 dollars of Public Education Capital Outlay
13 bonds.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it passes.
19 MR. WATKINS: Item number 5 is a resolution
20 authorizing the use of excess proceeds from
21 several series of prior bond issues for a
22 Florida facilities pool project for additional
23 renovations to the Knott Building.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary, I'm
25 going to ask for this one to be deferred, if I
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
June 25, 1996
7
1 might.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And I agree that it
3 needs to be deferred.
4 MR. WATKINS: Item 6 is a resolution
5 authorizing the negotiated sale at the request
6 of the Florida Housing Finance Agency of
7 9.7 million dollars for a multifamily project.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, approved.
12 MR. WATKINS: Item number 7 is a report of
13 award of 40 million dollar Florida
14 Housing Finance Agency single family housing
15 revenue bonds. The bonds were sold at
16 negotiated sale on June 10th at a true interest
17 rate of approximately 6.28 percent.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, is approved.
22 We need to go back to Item 5, and we need a
23 motion for deferral.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So moved.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
June 25, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Without objection,
2 we've deferred number 5.
3 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
4 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
June 25, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 Thank you very much.
4 MR. MOORE: Good morning, Madam Secretary,
5 Members of the Cabinet.
6 Item 1 is the minutes of the December 12,
7 '95, Cabinet meeting.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
11 It's approved.
12 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is our quarterly
13 progress report for October through December of
14 '95.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, approved.
19 MR. MOORE: Madam Secretary, Item 3 is a
20 quarterly progress report for January through
21 March of '96. And if I might point out a couple
22 of things that I'm extremely proud of on behalf
23 of our men and women and local law enforcement
24 in this state to your attention.
25 During the last session, we received --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
June 25, 1996
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1 session before last, we received the funds and
2 the appropriations to target 2400 violent felony
3 fugitives that were on the streets in the state
4 of Florida.
5 Working very cooperatively and closely with
6 both local law enforcement and the marshals in
7 our state, we have to date recaptured 799 of
8 those felony fugitives, 269 of which were
9 extremely violent. And I'm very proud of that.
10 And that's, again, a compliment of local law
11 enforcement, as well as our efforts.
12 A second thing that I'm proud of on behalf
13 of our men and women in our forensic system, our
14 laboratory system, that, as you know, will
15 handle about 100,000 pieces of evidence in
16 criminal proceedings on an average year, we have
17 been able to reduce our turnaround time, of
18 which you will recall, was one of the
19 performance contract items between you as a body
20 and myself.
21 We've reduced that turnaround time on the
22 average exhibits, nonDNA exhibits, from 63 days
23 to 31 days, and we're continuing to go down.
24 And that's a good product of hard effort by
25 the men and women in our -- in our forensic
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
June 25, 1996
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1 department and the agency. And I'm real proud
2 of that.
3 And I wanted to share those two
4 accomplishments particularly with you as we move
5 Item 3.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I -- is there --
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 I think everybody would like to just add
12 that you've done a wonderful job over there in
13 FDLE.
14 Commissioner Nelson?
15 TREASURER NELSON: Madam Secretary, I want
16 to commend Mr. Moore for the great job. And I
17 want to give -- this opportunity to give you a
18 report on the Marianna church fire.
19 As you know, our arson lab and our
20 Fire Marshal people did the investigation. It
21 was attempted arson. The accelerant used was
22 gasoline. Very fortunately, the fire burned
23 itself out on the pew and the floor. And so the
24 little Marianna church was not a total victim.
25 We -- we were quite concerned because local
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
June 25, 1996
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1 law enforcement in Jackson County had discovered
2 several days after the fire a body wrapped in
3 some kind of wrapping material that was about
4 100 yards from the church.
5 What we just found out yesterday is they --
6 they caught the perpetrator, there was a
7 confession to the murder, and we determined that
8 it had no relation whatsoever to the attempted
9 arson in the church.
10 We have had in our Fire Marshal's office,
11 through their experience, a number of tips that
12 we've tried to pass around to the
13 African American churches in the state. And
14 it's my understanding that the Attorney General
15 was just up in Washington, and -- in that
16 conference, maybe you can tell us.
17 But Mr. Moore tells me that we're all going
18 to be having a series of meetings with regard to
19 trying to proactively be ready to, number one,
20 prevent this in the future of happening in
21 Florida; and number two, swing into action if it
22 does.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
24 Madam Secretary --
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Uh-hum.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
June 25, 1996
13
1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- all the
2 law enforcement agencies in the state, the
3 state, local, and federal level are working
4 together.
5 And as Commissioner Nelson stated, within
6 the next few days, we'll be having a meeting
7 with local law enforcement, the three
8 U.S. Attorneys, and also leaders of the various
9 churches in order to make sure that this will
10 not happen in Florida.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Great.
12 Thank you very much.
13 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Madam Secretary.
14 (The Department of Law Enforcement Agenda
15 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
June 25, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Department of Revenue.
2 MS. YEOMANS: Good morning. Larry Fuchs
3 had to be out of town this morning. I'm
4 Lorraine Yeomans.
5 Item 1 is a request approval of the minutes
6 from May 29th.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, approved.
11 MS. YOEMANS: Item 2 is a request for
12 approval of and authority to enter into a
13 contract with the Florida Association of
14 Broadcasters for a public service campaign to
15 increase child support enforcement payments.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
20 seconded.
21 Without objection, approved.
22 MS. YOEMANS: Item 3 is the request for
23 approval and authority to enter into contracts
24 with GeneScreen, Inc., and Laboratory
25 Corporation of America Holdings, for genetic
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
June 25, 1996
15
1 testing services for our child support
2 enforcement program.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, approved.
8 Thank you, Lorraine.
9 MS. YOEMANS: Yes, ma'am.
10 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
11 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Education, and
2 Commissioner Brogan.
3 DR. BEDFORD: Members, State Board of
4 Education, good morning.
5 Item 1, minutes of the meeting held
6 May 14th and May 29th, 1996.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2, Amendment number 7
10 for Florida Learning Support Systems with
11 Encyclopaedia Britannica Education Corporation
12 for the data flow controller.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 TREASURER NELSON: I've got a question
16 here.
17 I really commend you all, Frank, for this
18 kind of stuff. This new educational software is
19 going to really help us. And --
20 I need to ask you a question.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
22 TREASURER NELSON: Given the fact this is
23 going to enhance the integration of information,
24 what about -- there was the elimination of the
25 school year 2000 staff and your Bureau of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
17
1 Technology.
2 How can -- what is the ability for us to --
3 to keep ourselves going in the adaptation of
4 technology to the classroom with the elimination
5 of those two areas?
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The -- and that's a
7 good question, Commissioner.
8 The -- the way that Florida is now moving
9 forward on, not just educational technology, but
10 all things technology, we think is very forward
11 thinking with the creation of the Florida
12 Distance Learning Network.
13 There was a great belief on the part of
14 many that we were throwing a great deal of money
15 at the whole issue of technology. Not that you
16 don't need money for technology, but a real
17 feeling that a more concerted and focused effort
18 was necessary.
19 Last year, during the legislative process,
20 there was created the Florida Distance Learning
21 Network, which brought to the table not only
22 public schools, but community colleges, state
23 university, libraries, public and private
24 providers as well. People from the
25 telecommunications industry are at the table in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 this network.
2 We have developed a strategic plan that we
3 will be using in the state of Florida. And it
4 will give us the ability to continue to pilot,
5 we think, some exciting educational
6 opportunities, but also dovetail those with
7 what's going on in the rest of the public and
8 the private sector on all things technology.
9 When you say Florida Distance Learning
10 Network, many get the stereotypical belief that
11 distance learning only means what some of us
12 think of as interactive television. But it has
13 been redefined basically to capture any movement
14 of information technologically. And that might
15 be via cable or satellite or microwave or
16 computer or phone lines, whatever it happens to
17 be.
18 It is rapidly being recognized as one of
19 the most forward thinking approaches to
20 integrating technology in the state and the
21 country. So it is going to give us the ability
22 to identify through program grants some of these
23 kinds of initiatives that we've begun, would
24 like to continue, such as the data flow
25 controller; but also some new innovations that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
19
1 we would like to see piloted around the
2 state of Florida at all levels of education.
3 In our own shop, we will continue to do
4 what that Bureau did most of, and that was
5 teacher training. That was one of the primary
6 functions of our own bureau. We still will have
7 a shop designated for technology, and it will
8 continue to house most of the training
9 coordination activities that go on within the
10 area of technology.
11 And as you all -- we've all talked about
12 this before. You can have all of the technology
13 that you want to have. Unless people are
14 trained to use it and use it well, you're
15 probably going to have a lot of dusty equipment
16 out there.
17 So we're not only going to continue with
18 innovations and pilots via Florida Distance
19 Learning Network, but we in the Department will
20 continue to coordinate the staff development
21 activities surrounding all things technology for
22 the state of Florida's educational system as
23 well.
24 And it just came to my attention, I forgot
25 that I'm supposed to run this part of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 meeting. That -- I apologize. That's why Kathy
2 was up here trying to get my attention from the
3 Secretary.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So I think that I'll
5 make the motion.
6 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you,
8 Madam Secretary.
9 I have a motion. Do I hear a second?
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Without objection,
12 item passes.
13 DR. BEDFORD: Item 3, approval of contract
14 to conduct the annual Cost of Living Market
15 Basket Survey.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
19 Discussion?
20 Without objection, item passes.
21 DR. BEDFORD: Item 4, adoption of a
22 resolution authorizing the public sale and
23 delivery of not to exceed two hundred and
24 twelve million dollars of State of Florida, Full
25 Faith and Credit State Board of Education,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 Public Education Capital Outlay Bonds, 1995
2 Series F.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: A motion and a
6 second.
7 Discussion?
8 Without objection, item passes.
9 DR. BEDFORD: Item 5, adoption of the six
10 supplemental authorizing resolution to the
11 master authorizing resolution adopted on
12 February 4th, 1992, authorizing the issuance of
13 one or more series of not to exceed 19.1 million
14 dollars State of Florida, Full Faith and Credit
15 State Board of Education Capital Outlay Bonds,
16 1996 Series B; and a resolution authorizing the
17 public sale and delivery of not to exceed
18 19.1 million dollars of the --
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: A lot of authorizing
20 in this particular item.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
24 Discussion?
25 Without objection.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 DR. BEDFORD: Item 6 is an amendment to
2 Rule 6C, dash, 1.005, Meetings.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
7 Without objection, item passes.
8 DR. BEDFORD: Item 7 is an amendment to
9 Rule 6C-5.900, State University System General
10 Personnel Policy.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
14 Discussion?
15 Without objection, item passes.
16 DR. BEDFORD: Item 8 is an amendment to
17 Rule 6C, dash, 6.001, Admissions.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
21 Discussion?
22 Without objection, item passes.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Item number 9, we wish to
24 withdraw.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move withdrawal.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
3 Without objection, we'll withdraw.
4 DR. BEDFORD: Item 10 is the appointment of
5 Senator Phil Lewis to the Board of Regents, and
6 the continuing appointment of Sha'Ron James, the
7 student regent, till September 1st, 1996, for
8 Sha'Ron James; and until the year 2002 for
9 Senator Phil Lewis.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
11 DR. BEDFORD: To the State Board --
12 excuse me -- to the Florida Board of Regents.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I second.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
15 Discussion?
16 Without objection, item passes.
17 DR. BEDFORD: Item 11 is appointment and
18 reappointment to Valencia Community College and
19 Gulf Coast Community College Board of Trustees.
20 You have the reappointment of Jan Lackey and the
21 appointment of Leon Bloodworth.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Motion and a second.
25 Without objection, item passes.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Thank you, Secretary.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
3 Administration Commission.
4 DR. BEDFORD: We have a question raised by
5 the reporter.
6 Items 1 --
7 COURT REPORTER GILBERT: Items 1 and 2 were
8 not properly --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
10 COURT REPORTER GILBERT: -- with --
11 DR. BEDFORD: Item 1, minutes of the
12 meeting.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'll move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Without objection.
16 DR. BEDFORD: Item 2 was Amendment number 7
17 for Florida Learning Support Systems with
18 Encyclopaedia Britannica Education.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I will move that one.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Without objection,
22 item passes.
23 DR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
June 25, 1996
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1 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
2 concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
June 25, 1996
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Mr. Bradley.
2 DR. BRADLEY: Item number 1 is a request
3 authorization to enter the draft order for
4 Administration Commission case 96-001.
5 There are three individuals who would like
6 to speak, Madam Chair: Stephanie Gehres of DCA;
7 Patrick Boyes from the Historic Gainesville;
8 Marion Radson, the City Attorney for
9 Gainesville.
10 The property owners in this case,
11 Mr. Bodine and Feiber, did not want to speak.
12 So we have these other people here for you.
13 First is Stephanie Gehres from Department
14 of Community Affairs.
15 MS. GEHRES: Good morning, Commissioners.
16 My name is Stephanie Gehres. I'm General
17 Counsel for the Department of Community Affairs.
18 Now, this case involves about a half acre
19 parcel on the edge of the historic district in
20 Gainesville. And the plan amendment at issue
21 changed the land use on this two-parcel section
22 from a primarily residential land use to a land
23 use that would allow some commercial in addition
24 to residential.
25 The Department of Community Affairs
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
June 25, 1996
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1 initially found the plan amendment to be in
2 compliance. And a group of citizens in the
3 community -- several groups, actually,
4 petitioned the Division of Administrative
5 Hearings for a hearing on the -- whether the
6 plan amendment was, in fact, in compliance.
7 This case exemplifies the citizen
8 participation in their local comprehensive
9 planning process, as it is the citizens group
10 that brought this issue to you today.
11 A hearing was held at the Division of
12 Administrative Hearings, and the hearing officer
13 determined that the plan amendment was not in
14 compliance.
15 The issue then comes back to the Department
16 of Community Affairs for the issuance of a final
17 order. In this instance, the Department
18 reviewed the record and the recommended order.
19 And under the requirements of Chapter 120, the
20 Department is required to find the -- must find
21 whether the recommended order is supported by
22 competent substantial evidence.
23 And our review of the record and the
24 recommended order found that the recommendation
25 that the plan amendment be in compliance --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
June 25, 1996
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1 excuse me -- be not in compliance is supported
2 by competent substantial evidence in the record.
3 So the Department issued a determination of
4 noncompliance that was sent to the Cabinet,
5 acting as the Administration Commission, for the
6 entry of a final order.
7 The City of Gainesville, and their
8 representative is here today also, filed some
9 exceptions to the recommended order. Ultimately
10 they withdrew those exceptions.
11 They've also withdrew any -- you know --
12 they have -- no longer object to the entry of a
13 final order that finds the plan amendment not in
14 compliance.
15 So we would submit that the Commission
16 enter an order finding the plan amendment not in
17 compliance, ruling on the exceptions as they are
18 enumerated in the draft final order.
19 And I believe that the City Attorney is
20 here, and also the City -- the groups -- the
21 citizens' group that participated in the hearing
22 below are also here to address you.
23 Let me also stress that the Department
24 attempted to try to settle this matter as
25 amicably as possible. We met several times with
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1 the citizens groups and the City's and the
2 Department's representatives.
3 And this plan amendment, again, exemplifies
4 the process, and how important it is for public
5 participation to be heralded.
6 And with that, we would request that the
7 Commission enter a final order finding the plan
8 amendment not in compliance, and ruling on
9 exceptions as you have before you in your
10 package, the draft final order.
11 Be glad to answer any questions.
12 Thank you.
13 DR. BRADLEY: Ms. Patricia Boyes from
14 Historic Gainesville is here.
15 She's going to give you a -- a few words.
16 And I think she also has a couple people she'd
17 like to introduce to you.
18 MS. BOYES: Good morning. My name is
19 Patrice Boyes. I represent the petitioners in
20 this case, and they are primarily Historic
21 Gainesville, Incorporated; the Duckpond
22 Neighborhood Association, Incorporated; and
23 several named individual petitioners.
24 I'm here simply to ask you to adopt the
25 draft final order as staff has written it. If
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1 you do so, in so doing, you will be helping to
2 preserve a very unique historic residential
3 neighborhood, which we know as the Duckpond
4 Neighborhood in Gainesville.
5 It's a neighborhood where families enjoy a
6 very close-knit quality of life. You will also,
7 if you vote to adopt the recommended order, be
8 recognizing the hard work of citizens, who for
9 two-and-a-half years, have worked very hard to
10 make the process work in this case.
11 And at this time, there are approximately
12 ten of them who have traveled here from
13 Gainesville here this morning to meet with you.
14 I'd ask them to stand briefly.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The ones with the
16 ducks.
17 MS. BOYES: Yes, ma'am.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Mighty Ducks.
19 MS. BOYES: Thank you.
20 At this point, I'd like to introduce to you
21 Mrs. Jane Myers, who's been a resident of the
22 Duckpond neighborhood for approximately
23 25 years. And she is a former president of
24 Historic Gainesville many years ago.
25 She will be followed by Thomas Sputo, who
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1 is a consulting engineer and a relative newcomer
2 to the neighborhood.
3 Thank you.
4 MS. MYERS: Good morning. I'm Jane Myers,
5 a 25-year resident of the Duckpond
6 neighborhood.
7 To live in a neighborhood for a quarter of
8 a century is to watch history repeat itself.
9 When I first moved to the neighborhood, a
10 gentleman had the idea to convert an historic
11 home to an insurance office. The neighbors
12 gathered in the City Commission meeting, and
13 somehow convinced the commissioners that this
14 was not an appropriate use.
15 We won that night. But we knew that that
16 was just the beginning of many such battles,
17 unless we as a neighborhood did something.
18 We formed a nonprofit organization,
19 Historic Gainesville, Incorporated, not just for
20 preserving our neighborhood, for the -- but for
21 the preservation of historic neighborhoods and
22 buildings throughout Alachua County.
23 One of the first priorities was to have our
24 neighborhood designated as a national registered
25 historic district. We brought stability and
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1 reliability to a neighborhood at risk.
2 Through the last two decades, we have had
3 continuing confidence in the stability of the
4 neighborhood for home buyers and renovators.
5 But, as I originally said, history has
6 repeated itself. And the neighborhood has again
7 been threatened with the pressure of converting
8 a residence to an office.
9 The rest is history. We had to do this for
10 our neighborhood. We followed the process, and
11 won, using the political process to change the
12 face of the City Commission.
13 We have the support of the administrative
14 hearing officer; the backing of DCA; and
15 finally, the blessing of the City Commission.
16 It has taken us two-and-a-half years, and
17 we are here today to respectfully request that
18 you honor the process, vote to accept the
19 recommended order, and preserve the residential
20 quality of the Duckpond neighborhood for the
21 future.
22 The Mighty Ducks thank you.
23 MR. SPUTO: Good morning. My name is
24 Thomas Sputo. And in contrast to Ms. Myers, I'm
25 one of the relative newcomers to the Duckpond
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1 neighborhood, residing here for just shy of
2 three years.
3 I'm also somewhat typical of many people
4 who call themselves Gainesvillians. When
5 permanently settling down became a priority, the
6 Duckpond was the one and only choice of
7 neighborhoods on my and my wife's list.
8 My business dealings have taken me through
9 many of Alachua County's neighborhoods. It was,
10 however, the character and feeling of the
11 Duckpond neighborhood that made the difference.
12 It was a feeling that this was like in many
13 ways my boyhood neighborhood; it was neighbors
14 helping neighbors; people knowing their
15 neighbors; and above all, people concerned about
16 their neighborhood.
17 I believe that our neighborhood has worked
18 as hard as any neighborhood to preserve these
19 qualities that make it special. It has been a
20 long process which began about two-and-a-half
21 years ago, and we are looking forward to
22 closure.
23 I believe that through this all, one of the
24 most important lessons to be learned is the
25 importance of local government. And the most
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1 local and most important government unit is a
2 neighborhood that actively knows what is best
3 for its present, and what is best for its
4 future, and how it wants to be managed.
5 This is growth management at its most basic
6 level: Citizens voicing their opinions and
7 working through the system to ensure that their
8 desires and dreams are heard and acted on in a
9 responsible manner.
10 Who else knows better how to manage growth
11 than those who are most directly affected, the
12 residents themselves.
13 I stand here confident in the future of the
14 Duckpond neighborhood, and ask that you share my
15 confidence by voting in favor of the recommended
16 final order.
17 Thank you.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
19 DR. BRADLEY: Finally, we have
20 Marion Radson, the City Attorney of the Gaines--
21 of the City of Gainesville.
22 MR. RADSON: Good morning. My name is
23 Marion Radson, I'm the Gainesville
24 City Attorney.
25 As has previously been correctly stated,
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1 the City Commission recently did vote to
2 withdraw the exceptions that had previously been
3 filed in this matter.
4 We have reviewed the draft final order, we
5 agree with its terms, with -- with -- especially
6 with the corrections to the exceptions that have
7 been noted by your staff.
8 We concur that no remedial action is
9 necessary, because the plan amendment by its
10 very own terms in the ordinance did not take
11 affect, and would not take affect until this
12 Commission found the plan amendment to be in
13 compliance.
14 Since the plan amendment has never been
15 made effective, we also agree with your staff
16 that no sanctions are appropriate under the
17 circumstances. If the draft final order is
18 approved, a certified copy will be filed in the
19 City Clerk's records.
20 Thank you.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Commissioner Brogan.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Is that all the
24 speakers?
25 DR. BRADLEY: Yes, sir, that's all the
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1 speakers.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I would move the
3 entry of the draft final order.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
6 seconded.
7 Are there any comments?
8 TREASURER NELSON: I have a --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Commissioner Nelson,
10 question.
11 TREASURER NELSON: I have been looking
12 through this, and I take it -- color Xerox of a
13 number of the homes in the area, and these are
14 just beautiful.
15 And I'm looking and seeing, the only thing
16 unattractive on all of these photographs are the
17 City Hall building and the chiller for the
18 City Hall.
19 And I'm curious, give me the relationship
20 of the existing law offices on First Street,
21 which are quite attractive, to this subject
22 parcel -- two parcels.
23 How far are they away, and where are they
24 in relationship to City Hall?
25 MS. BOYES: City Hall is across a four-lane
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1 street to the south of the subject parcels. The
2 subject parcels sit on the southern edge of the
3 historic district, that portion which is zoned
4 residential.
5 The western boundary of the historic
6 district is First Street, and that's where the
7 law offices are located. Those law offices are
8 located within the historic district, but within
9 a section of the district zoned for office.
10 So the critical difference here is the line
11 between office and residential zoning.
12 TREASURER NELSON: Are they on -- they're
13 not on the same street.
14 MS. BOYES: No, sir, they're not.
15 TREASURER NELSON: One's on First Avenue --
16 on First Street.
17 MS. BOYES: Second.
18 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. I see it here.
19 And these that are shown here are across
20 from City Hall on First Street?
21 MS. BOYES: North and west.
22 TREASURER NELSON: North and west.
23 Sitting across the street from the -- the
24 historic district.
25 MS. BOYES: There -- they form the western
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1 boundary of the historic district.
2 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Where -- where on
3 this map are the two subject parcels?
4 MS. BOYES: If you -- you see where City
5 Hall is? Directly --
6 TREASURER NELSON: Right there?
7 MS. BOYES: -- where your finger is. Right
8 there.
9 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Okay.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Any other questions,
11 comments?
12 This may be a perfect example of allowing
13 local people to come before their local
14 government, maybe make the changes they need to
15 make in that local government, and then the
16 State Board -- and the Cabinet, rather, actually
17 complies with the local's desires.
18 All those in favor, say aye.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Those opposed, no.
23 Passes unan--
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yeah, Ducks.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: What?
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yeah, Ducks.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Passes
3 unanimously.
4 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 *
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15
16
17
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Marine Fisheries
2 Commission.
3 DR. NELSON: Good morning, Madam Secretary,
4 members of the Cabinet.
5 Item A on the agenda is an emergency rule
6 suspending special acts closing certain portions
7 of the waters of Bay and Okaloosa Counties to
8 shrimping.
9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
12 seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 DR. NELSON: And Item B is an emergency
15 rule modifying current mullet regulations prior
16 to the coming roe season.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, approved.
21 DR. NELSON: Item C is essentially a
22 technical amendment confirming our Atlantic king
23 mackerel regulations to the Federal regulations
24 governing the same stock of fish.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, approved.
4 DR. NELSON: Item D is a series of rule
5 deletions which remove prima facie designations
6 within Marine Fisheries Commission rules.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, approved.
11 DR. NELSON: All right. And then Item E,
12 we have three individuals who'd like to speak
13 on.
14 This is a rule of the Commission which will
15 continue with a plan that we have been working
16 on for the last five years, which is to replace
17 regionally -- until we get around the entire
18 state -- the current regulations of minimum
19 sizes, which require shrimp to be of a set
20 minimum size without any guidance as to where or
21 when those shrimp are of such a minimum size.
22 We are replacing this management regime
23 with a regime of closing substantial nursery
24 areas which harbor majority of small fish, and
25 then leaving open the waters that we believe --
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1 and if science has shown us -- to contain mostly
2 large fish that would generally be of legal
3 size.
4 The problem's been in the past that even
5 the waters where you would expect to find legal
6 size shrimp, there are occasions where you find
7 small shrimp, and a fish -- a shrimper who is
8 out on those waters and sets his nets is subject
9 to the law, depending on what comes up.
10 And we have already put this in place
11 three years ago from Pasco through
12 Wakulla County; on the east coast, we put this
13 in place just recently in a rule you approved a
14 couple months ago for the northeastern section
15 of the state. It has been working very well.
16 This would extend this regime to waters of
17 Franklin, Wakulla, and portions of Gulf County.
18 Now, we have three individuals who would
19 like to speak on the rule. The first is
20 Mr. Ray Pringle.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary, I'm
22 going to ask that, with all due respect, this
23 item be deferred. I think it needs some more
24 discussion.
25 Of course, the speakers are up to you. But
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1 I would ask for it to be deferred.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Are these three
3 speakers from out of town?
4 DR. NELSON: Well, Wakulla and
5 Franklin County is out of the county.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. That's out of
7 town.
8 I think we ought to, unless somebody
9 objects, allow the speakers to speak since
10 they're here.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, ma'am.
12 DR. NELSON: Yes, ma'am.
13 Mr. Pringle.
14 MR. PRINGLE: Good morning,
15 Madam Secretary, Honorable Cabinet members.
16 Greetings.
17 I'm Ray Pringle, the Executive Director of
18 the Wakulla Commercial Fishermen's Association.
19 The Wakulla Commercial Fishermen's
20 Association opposes a no-count rule that would
21 close a major portion of Wakulla County without
22 an adequate or proper biologically sound
23 management plan.
24 The Association also would support a
25 no-count rule if the rule was backed by a
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1 biologically sound management plan that would
2 protect all the resource.
3 Thank you.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Any questions?
5 Okay.
6 DR. NELSON: Now, the -- we have
7 Mr. Ted Forsgren, who is not from out of town.
8 But he is -- he's asked to speak, and --
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's fine.
10 DR. NELSON: Mr. Forsgren?
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Have you ever been
12 out of town, Mr. Forsgren?
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: He's been
14 out to lunch a couple of times.
15 MR. FORSGREN: Thank you, Madam Chairman,
16 members of the Cabinet.
17 I'd like to first state that we support the
18 concept of the rule and the concept that the
19 Commission is moving towards with eliminating
20 the count law and incorporating sanctuaries and
21 closed areas. We think that's worked in other
22 parts of the state, and we support the direction
23 that they're going here.
24 And we've been working cooperatively and
25 reasonably with the Commission watching and
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1 viewing how they've been dealing with the
2 shrimpers. Marine Fisheries Commission and this
3 Governor and Cabinet has worked cooperatively
4 also.
5 We had no objections to this rule up until
6 last Wednesday afternoon. That's when we
7 discovered that a local judge had issued an
8 injunction based upon the request of the
9 shrimpers to prevent the Marine Patrol from
10 measuring the length of shrimp trawls.
11 And it came about as an incident on an
12 arrest where an individual was using a net that
13 was essentially twice as large as what is
14 allowed under the constitutional amendment, and
15 twice as large as what is allowed under the
16 formula that's already been litigated all the
17 way to the Florida Supreme Court.
18 Our feeling is that there's just something
19 not right about this whole situation in terms of
20 putting together this plan, and then having the
21 ability to use nets which are twice or three
22 times, or whatever, the size allowed under the
23 constitution.
24 So, you know, we were going to urge a
25 deferral of this issue for two reasons:
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1 Number one, to determine how long it's going to
2 take to resolve this judge's decision. I
3 understand that a stay has been requested, it
4 may be automatically granted.
5 But the question is: Are the shrimpers
6 still going to continue to use the larger nets,
7 is this judge going to dismiss cases that come
8 up.
9 And number two is that this rule is kind of
10 a balance between allowing shrimping in certain
11 areas with particular nets, and closed areas.
12 And when the Commission adopted this rule,
13 they were under the impression that the nets
14 would be restricted as proposed -- and as
15 agreed, under the constitution and the
16 Supreme Court decision. And now we have a
17 situation where that may not be the case.
18 So I think that a deferral to examine these
19 issues is appropriate, given the context of last
20 Wednesday's decision. So we would support that.
21 Thank you.
22 DR. NELSON: And the final speaker is
23 Mr. Bruce Millender.
24 MR. MILLENDER: Hello. My name is
25 Bruce Millender. I'm glad to be here today, and
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1 to speak on behalf of the Florida Shrimp
2 Association.
3 And first I want to commend the Marine
4 Fishery Commission. They do an outstanding job,
5 having all the workshops in Franklin County and
6 Wakulla County, spending hundreds of hours
7 getting this plan in position.
8 And first I want to address the problem
9 that -- that Mr. Forsgren was talking about that
10 was just a misunderstanding. The industry
11 thought that we was just going to be -- we were
12 reduced to a 66 foot circumference net. And
13 that's just a misunderstanding, which is a whole
14 separate issue.
15 The issue -- County issue, and net issue is
16 two separate issues here. And that's been
17 resolved at this time. We're working together
18 to resolve that.
19 Due to the fact we're right on the heels of
20 another season, and we were stopped last year --
21 due to the fact we were stopped last year due to
22 the count situation, we're looking at starting
23 our season in July, and we're -- here we're
24 looking to get it tabled again for a couple of
25 weeks.
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1 And we need to quit wasting time, push
2 forward. We've got four generations of
3 experience here, and our livelihood is depending
4 solely on that bay. And we know what will and
5 won't work in this bay.
6 And we have -- we have really pushed, and
7 we're strained financially. And we really need
8 for y'all to have a sympathetic heart.
9 And we're asking y'all, and above all, the
10 Lord, to make sure this thing goes through,
11 because we feel like that this is a just deal,
12 and we thank you so much, and thanks to the
13 Marine Fisheries Commission.
14 We're looking forward to working with the
15 MFC and DEP on resolving the length measured
16 issue.
17 But let's don't confuse the two and cost
18 people their livelihoods.
19 Thanks.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Madam Secretary, I'm
21 very sensitive to the timing on this thing. And
22 with that deferral, would recommend that we
23 bring it back on the very next Cabinet agenda.
24 And I think by that time, probably have all the
25 concerns worked out.
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Is there a second to
2 that motion?
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved
5 and seconded to come back to the July 9th
6 meeting. And I would hope that by that time,
7 the Court would have acted. Because it would
8 seem to me that -- that that -- that does seem
9 to be the impediment at this point.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Let me -- let me ask
11 a question, if I may.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We've already
14 approved this approach in two other areas; is
15 that correct?
16 DR. NELSON: That is correct, Mr. --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Northeast, and to
18 the --
19 DR. NELSON: The Big Bend area.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and the south --
21 and southeast of Wakulla County line.
22 What is so terribly different here that
23 is -- certainly I agree that there's no
24 relationship between the length of the net
25 question, and -- and what we're doing here.
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1 And so I'm a little confused as to why we
2 are deferring.
3 Would you care to enlighten me,
4 Commissioner Brogan?
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I am not as -- as
6 entirely clear about the differentiation between
7 the net incident and what it is we're doing
8 here, as are some others.
9 And I think it's simply a matter of wanting
10 to feel completely comfortable that that,
11 indeed, is fact.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Does that mean that
13 we will go back and revisit the other cases that
14 we have already approved?
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I don't think it's
16 anything that complicated, General.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Uh-hum.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, and if I might,
19 I think in the other two cases, there was not an
20 injunction in court as to the size of the nets.
21 Am I correct or incorrect on that?
22 DR. NELSON: That -- that is correct,
23 Madam Secretary. There has been an injunction
24 that was passed through Franklin County by
25 Judge Russell. Despite the fact that there's a
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1 Supreme Court decision specifically mandating
2 how the length of a net should be measured,
3 Judge Russell found that he could decide that
4 length could not be measured.
5 There has been an appeal filed this
6 morning. There is a stay -- an automatic stay
7 to that injunction. So we are looking forward
8 to a resolution of that issue.
9 Frankly, I doubt if the Court will have
10 resolved the issue by the 9th. The stay will be
11 in effect. If -- if it is necessary, the
12 Commission will take action to establish
13 specific lengths relative to perimeters in
14 rule.
15 We -- we had hoped that we could go through
16 this without having to be so -- you know, so --
17 define things so narrowly.
18 Frankly, 95 percent of the shrimpers in the
19 state of Florida are using the new legal gear,
20 they're using it effectively, and they're using
21 it without undue trouble.
22 There is a small percentage of people who
23 have just decided that, be as it may, they are
24 going to resist or try to find loopholes, and
25 I'm not quite sure why, I don't even know that
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1 it's a technical advantage to them.
2 But that seems to be the case for at least
3 a few individuals or interests in the panhandle
4 area.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, we have,
6 I think, agreed that the approach that you are
7 pursuing, the plan that you have, which is not
8 to use a count, but rather to close on the basis
9 of when the juvenile shrimp are likely to be in
10 a particular area, we've agreed that this plan
11 is a good plan.
12 And now I hear that the length of the net
13 is some way affecting the plan. And I -- and I
14 don't understand the connection. If we agree
15 that we don't want to use a count as a basis,
16 that we want to use some sort of management
17 of -- of season as the way we do business, how
18 does the length of the net affect that plan?
19 I don't see the connection.
20 DR. NELSON: I don't know that there would
21 be a -- that strong a direct connection between
22 the length of the net and the plan. The length
23 issue is simply some people trying to find a way
24 to exceed --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. I --
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1 DR. NELSON: -- the constitutional
2 amendment.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I understand
4 that. I just -- I'm having a hard time
5 understanding count versus the season, and
6 connecting the net to this. I just -- I'm
7 having a hard time with it.
8 And I kind of have some empathy. Let's get
9 on with it. We have approved it two other
10 areas. I don't see any relationship at all.
11 And I say, let's get on with the decision on
12 this particular item.
13 So I, for one, oppose deferring.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, and --
15 I'm sorry --
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Go ahead.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Secretary -- to
18 the Chair.
19 It may not necessarily be critical that
20 there be a court resolution to this issue for me
21 to be in a position to support it at the next
22 meeting.
23 I know how courts work. And I know they
24 may or may not have a resolution to this by
25 July 9th or August 9th or September 9th. And I
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1 am again very sensitive to the timing on this
2 issue relative to the season.
3 I just simply, based on the fact that all
4 of this has unfolded in the last 72 hours, have
5 got some questions on my mind about the larger
6 issues. And again, I'm not so quick to separate
7 the two. And that probably is my fault, but
8 would feel more comfortable if we came back on
9 the -- on the next agenda with it.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Are there any
11 other comments?
12 All those in favor of deferral, say aye.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: All those opposed, no.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
17 TREASURER NELSON: No.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It will not be
20 deferred.
21 Well, actually, let's see. One, two,
22 three -- one --
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I think it's 3 to 3.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I think it is 3 to 3.
25 DR. NELSON: This may be a de facto
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1 deferral.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll just go ahead
3 and vote again. Defer.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, actually --
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: It's 4 to 3 now,
6 Secretary.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Pardon me?
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's another one
9 of those Mighty Duck moves.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Well, actually on a
11 3-3 --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I make --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- it fails anyway.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I make a motion that
15 we approve the -- Item E.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved.
17 Is there a second?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. It's been moved
20 and seconded.
21 Are there -- is there discussion on the
22 approval?
23 I'd like a comment from you on the
24 approval.
25 DR. NELSON: Madam Secretary --
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: What -- what is your
2 feeling about the Court as it relates to this
3 issue?
4 DR. NELSON: Madam Secretary, I am not an
5 attorney. I have been involved in fisheries
6 in --
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Nor am I.
8 DR. NELSON: -- for eleven years though. I
9 have -- I know that we have a Supreme Court
10 decision that says this is how you shall measure
11 the length of a net in order to determine if
12 it's 500 square feet.
13 It's my feeling that no local judge, no
14 circuit -- county judge is going to be able to
15 overturn the Supreme Court and say that it's --
16 we cannot measure the length of a net.
17 If necessary, I know that we have the
18 authority, can and will put into effect clear
19 specifications in a rule which sets up a length
20 for every perimeter. It's something we thought
21 we could do with an advisory.
22 My concern over the resolution of the
23 length issue is not great. I am very confident
24 that we will keep nets within the legal
25 500 square feet as defined by the Supreme Court
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1 decision.
2 Sometimes that takes a little bit of time
3 in court, as Commissioner Brogan well
4 understands.
5 But I am fairly confident that we can
6 handle this problem. I understand the
7 concerns. The Commission is, you know, very
8 strong in its determination to allow the
9 provisions of that constitutional amendment to
10 achieve their goals while trying within those
11 provisions to allow the fishery to -- to operate
12 in an effective manner.
13 So I think we can handle it.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, Secretary --
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'm sorry. -- you
17 need to know, I have been inclined to support
18 this since the day it hit the agenda. That's --
19 that's never been an issue here.
20 Mine was only one of trying to clarify some
21 issues which -- which have become somewhat
22 confusing. If, in fact, we're going to move
23 forward with this today, you do need to know
24 that I'm ready to support it today.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: And I'd just like to
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1 add, I'm in the same boat. I have -- I've been
2 for this from the beginning also, until the
3 issue of the court came up.
4 And I guess the only -- I think the one
5 thing that we have in our favor is if, in fact,
6 the Court were to do something that would not
7 allow us to be in the position that we are in
8 the other two parts of the state, then I think
9 we could, in fact, bring this back --
10 DR. NELSON: You can --
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- and address it at
12 that time.
13 DR. NELSON: Absolutely. I would be
14 perfectly happy to go back and express your
15 concerns to my Commission.
16 Perhaps we should go to work, revise the
17 rule to specifically include the lengths and
18 perimeters so that everybody knows exactly what
19 the ground rules are. That, upon approval by
20 this body, would -- regardless of the resolution
21 of this court case.
22 And, again, I'm optimistic that this court
23 case is going to be resolved in our favor. But
24 regardless of that resolution, our rule would
25 again become effective, and you'd be in a
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1 position to approve that.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, and I --
3 Madam Secretary, I would agree. I think this
4 Board has -- has pretty much philosophically
5 agreed with what you've said about not
6 over-ruling on many of these things.
7 I'd hate to see us be in a position where
8 we had to do just that. That was one of my
9 concerns with all of this is a court ruling that
10 might throw us into that posture. I hope it
11 doesn't come to that.
12 I hope that the few individuals -- and
13 there will always be a few individuals who, for
14 either lack of education, or just outright
15 flaunting it, are going to violate what everyone
16 knows you shouldn't do.
17 But I hope we don't get into a position
18 where we have to over-regulate this whole
19 issue. I think the vast majority of the
20 industry has done a very credible job of working
21 with you and us in -- in trying to deal with a
22 very complicated issue, and do it with a great
23 deal of integrity. And I hope we don't have to
24 come to that.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay. Any other
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1 comments?
2 With your explanation of what you're
3 intending to do, all those in favor say aye.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Aye.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Those opposed, no.
10 Passes unanimously.
11 DR. NELSON: Thank you.
12 (The Marine Fisheries Commission Agenda was
13 concluded.)
14 *
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1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Trustees.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 1, minutes of the May 14th
3 meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, is approved.
8 MR. GREEN: Item 2, two option agreements
9 to acquire approximately 43 acres.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
13 seconded.
14 All those -- I guess without objection,
15 it's approved.
16 MR. GREEN: Item 3, consideration of an
17 offer to purchase RICO property in acceptance of
18 the highest and best offer.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: It's been moved and
22 seconded.
23 Without objection, is approved.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 4, recommend deferral.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Till when
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1 would that be?
2 MR. GREEN: The next meeting.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I'll move it.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move deferral till
6 July 9th.
7 All those in favor, say aye.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Aye.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Thank you.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Is this a record?
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Close.
15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: No.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. If
17 Brogan wouldn't have spoke so long, it
18 wouldn't --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You are right.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you all.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Sure. Blame me.
22 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
23 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
24 *
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1 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
2 10:54 a.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA:
5 COUNTY OF LEON:
6 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
7 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
8 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
9 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
10 pages numbered 1 through 64 are a true and correct
11 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
12 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
13 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
14 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
15 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
16 DATED THIS 28TH day of JUNE, 1996.
17
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19 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR
100 Salem Court
20 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
(904) 878-2221
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