Cabinet
Affairs |
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
_________________________________________________________
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
_________________________________________________________
The above agencies came to be heard before THE
FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Chiles presiding, in the
Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol, Tallahassee,
Florida, on Thursday, June 13, 1996, commencing at
approximately 9:40 a.m.
Reported by:
SANDRA L. DiBENEDETTO-NARGIZ
Registered Professional Reporter
Certificate of Merit Holder
Notary Public in and For
the State of Florida At Large
_________________________________________________________
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301
904-878-2221
1-800-934-9090 (FL)
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES,
Governor
4
BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
7
SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
13
14
15
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17
18
19
20
21
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24
25
3
1
I N D E X
2
3 STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
4 (Presented by Barbara Jarriel,
Acting Executive Director)
5
6 ITEM ACTION PAGE
7
1 Approved 11
8 2 Approved 11
3 Approved 11
9 4 Approved 12
5 Approved 12
10 6 Approved 12
7 Approved 13
11 8 Approved 13
9 Deferred 18
12 10 Approved 19
11 Deferred 19
13 12 Approved 21
14 DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
15 (Presented by Ben Watkins and Susan Leigh, Executive
Director, Florida Housing Finance Agency)
16
17
ITEM ACTION PAGE
18
1 Approved 22
19 2 Approved 22
3 Approved 23
20 4 Approved 33
21
22
23
24
25
4
1
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
2
(Presented by Wayne Pierson, Deputy Commissioner of
3 Planning and Budgeting)
4
ITEM ACTION PAGE
5
6 1 Approved 35
2 Approved 37
7 3 Approved 37
4 Approved 38
8 5 Approved 38
6 Approved 38
9
10 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
11 (Presented by Gale Sittig,
Deputy Director)
12
13
ITEM ACTION PAGE
14
1 Approved 39
15 2 Approved 39
3 Approved 39
16 4 Approved 40
5 Approved 40
17 6 Deferred 40
7 Approved 40
18 8 Approved 41
9 Approved 41
19 10 Approved 41
11 Approved 42
20 12 Approved 42
13 Approved 42
21 14 Approved 42
22
23
24
25
5
1
2 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND:
3
(Presented by Kirby Green, Deputy Secretary)
4
5 ITEM ACTION PAGE
6
1 Approved 44
7 2 Approved 44
3 Approved 44
8 4 Approved 45
5 Approved 45
9 6 Approved 45
7 Approved 45
10 8 Approved 50
9 Deferred 50
11 10 Approved 51
11 Withdrawn 51
12 12 Approved 122
13
14 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 123
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25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:40 a.m.)
3 THE GOVERNOR: We need to approve appointments
4 to the Parole Commission. We have developed what we
5 hope will be a fool-proof procedure here. It will
6 work like this.
7 On the first ballot, the Governor and each
8 Cabinet member will cast three votes, casting one
9 vote for each candidate. The three candidates with
10 the highest vote totals would be the new
11 commissioner.
12 In the event there is a tie for third, then
13 there will be a run-off vote for that spot.
14 After the three members are selected, there
15 will then be a vote for the six-year term; and again,
16 the three members would be -- we vote for one of the
17 three on that. If there is a tie, then there would
18 be a one-vote run off.
19 Next will be a vote for the four-year term; and
20 when that is decided, then the two-year term will go
21 to the remaining person, the third person.
22 After the three commissioners are selected, it
23 will be necessary to approve the new commissioners by
24 a motion and a majority vote. And then there will be
25 a vote for the chair and the co-chair, and this could
7
1 be done by the nomination process.
2 The statute requires that one of the
3 commissioners be a minority, and write-in candidates
4 are allowed.
5 So I think everybody has a ballot that has the
6 names of all of the sitting commissioners plus a
7 space for a write-in candidate. So we'll proceed now
8 to vote.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Do we sign the ballot?
10 THE GOVERNOR: I ask you to sign the ballot.
11 (Short pause.)
12 THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Mr. Fuchs, you want to
13 tally these votes? Anybody that wants to look over
14 your shoulder, that's fine.
15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: While they are tallying,
16 let me say at the risk of sounding like I am paying
17 lip service, I think everyone on this dias would
18 agree this is not an easy chore. These are six very
19 fine individuals, very fine professionals. We are
20 doing this via change in the legislation, and trying
21 to cull from six good people to three good people is
22 not an easy thing for any of us to do. And I want
23 all six people to know how much I've appreciated
24 working with each and everyone of them. I know my
25 staff feels the same way, as do I am sure all of
8
1 yours.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Well said. I think that you are
3 right. Having to select three from six that are very
4 competent and very professional and have done an
5 excellent job is a difficult task for all of us to
6 do.
7 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: This is fortunate, if one
8 of them decides to run for the legislature, it would
9 have been three out of seven.
10 THE GOVERNOR: If this is going to take any
11 time, we'll go forward.
12 THE GOVERNOR'S AIDE: Why don't you go ahead and
13 do the resolutions?
14 (Resolutions off record.)
15 THE GOVERNOR: All right. Maurice Crockett
16 got five votes and Edward Spooner got five votes.
17 Patricia Grogan got four votes and Judith Wilson got
18 four votes.
19 So there will be a run off between Patricia
20 Grogan and Judith Wilson.
21 (Short pause.)
22 THE GOVERNOR: It's four to three, Judith
23 Wilson is selected.
24 Let's see. Now we need a ballot. You have
25 ballots?
9
1 While we are doing that, why don't we do the
2 resolution on the Girls State.
3 (Resolution off record.)
4 THE GOVERNOR: Do we have a ballot?
5 Edward Spooner is selected for the six-year
6 term. And we have a ballot for the four-year term.
7 Judith Wilson is selected for the four-year
8 term. Now, the floor is open for nominations for the
9 chair and vice-chair.
10 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I nominate Ed Spooner as
11 the chair.
12 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
13 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded.
14 Are there further nominations?
15 If there are no further nominations, as many as
16 favor selection of Ed Spooner as chair, signify by
17 saying aye.
18 THE CABINET: Aye.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Opposed, no.
20 And that is done.
21 I think also we should have a motion to select
22 the new commissioners and a vote on that so that we
23 make sure we have a clear majority.
24 This is not the vice-chair. This is a motion
25 for the selection of Commissioners Ed Spooner, Judith
10
1 Wilson, and Maurice Crockett.
2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I move.
3 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
4 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded.
5 All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
6 THE CABINET: Aye.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Opposed, no.
8 That motion is carried unanimously.
9 Now nominations, is there a nominations for the
10 vice-chair?
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I move the
12 selection of Ms. Wilson for vice-chair.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
14 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded
15 that Ms. Wilson be vice-chairman. Are there further
16 nominations?
17 As many as favor the motion, the nomination,
18 signify by saying aye.
19 THE CABINET: Aye.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Opposed, no. That motion
21 carries. So Mr. Spooner is chair, Ms. Wilson is
22 vice-chair, and we have fulfilled the obligation.
23 (Announcements off the record.)
24
25
11
1 THE GOVERNOR: State Board of Administration.
2 MRS. JARRIEL: The first item of business is to
3 approve the meetings of the May 14 meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
5 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Seconded.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded on
7 amendments. Without objection, the amendments are
8 approved as read.
9 MRS. JARRIEL: The next item, it's an approval
10 of fiscal sufficiency on Florida Housing Finance
11 Agency Multifamily Housing Revenue Bonds and
12 Overplaced Project.
13 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection it's approved.
17 MS. JARRIEL: Next item are recommendations to
18 approve fiscal sufficiency of Florida Housing Finance
19 Agency Revenue Bonds Caribbean Key Project.
20 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Seconded.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
23 objection, it's approved.
24 MS. JARRIEL: Fourth item, recommendation to
25 approve fiscal sufficiency Florida Housing Finance
12
1 Agency Revenue Bonds, Sterling Palms Apartments
2 Project.
3 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
6 objection, it's approved.
7 MS. JARRIEL: Recommendation of approval of
8 fiscal sufficiency, Florida Housing Finance Agency
9 Multi-Family Revenue bonds, Spinnaker Cove
10 Apartments.
11 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
14 objection, it's approved.
15 MS. JARRIEL: Next, recommendation for approval
16 for fiscal sufficiency for Florida Housing Finance
17 Agency Revenue Bonds, Praxis of Deerfield Beach,
18 Phase III Project.
19 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Seconded.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Seconded. Without objection,
22 it's approved.
23 MS. JARRIEL: Next item, an interest rate
24 exception for Julington Creek, Plantation Community
25 Development District, not to exceed $11,225,000; a
13
1 request not to exceed 9 percent per annum.
2 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, approved.
6 MS. JARRIEL: The next item has two
7 subcomponents relating to the Florida Hurricane
8 Catastrophe Fund. The first is a request that the
9 Trustees approve the premium formula for the 1996-97
10 contract year.
11 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
12 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded on parts 1
14 and 2 of the proposal. Without, objection it is
15 approved.
16 MS. JARRIEL: And that second portion was to
17 reappoint Jack Nicholson as the chair of the Florida
18 Hurricane Loss Projection Methodology Commission.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and --
20 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: And seconded.
21 THE GOVERNOR: -- and seconded. Without
22 objection, it's approved.
23 MS. JARRIEL: The next item on the agenda is
24 the SBA budget for fiscal year 1996-97. And I would
25 like to take this opportunity to provide some
14
1 clarification, since I understand there have been
2 some questions on the part of the Trustees.
3 As you know, our primary mandate is investment
4 services for the state of Florida. We have
5 continually been a cost-effective manager for both
6 pension fund beneficiaries as well as for local
7 governments, the counties and municipalities in
8 Florida through the local government investment
9 pool.
10 Our performance has been stellar. We earned 27
11 and a half percent last year for the pension fund,
12 and the local government fund has consistently
13 performed its counterparts in the private sector.
14 Our concern has been that we continue to retain
15 quality staff. The option for us would be to utilize
16 additional external manager services.
17 On a cost comparison basis, we manage funds at
18 two bases points on assets under management, whereas
19 at a minimum, external fees for managers typically
20 run 20 plus basis points.
21 I would like to also clarify that the amount
22 that we have in the budget this year is not a 7
23 percent across the board. Rather, it's targeted
24 specifically at entry and mid level investment
25 management staff. This was done after an extensive
15
1 review of salary rates in the private industry and
2 the targeted market from which we are required to
3 hire, which is basically specified geographic areas
4 in the southeast.
5 We did want to clarify that the 7 percent is
6 not across the board; and in the past when the
7 Trustees have given us merit money, we feel that you
8 have been comfortable with the manner in which it was
9 used to reward excess performance and to retain
10 quality staff. So the budget has been submitted for
11 approval.
12 THE GOVERNOR: Discussion? Motion?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I will make a motion.
14 THE GOVERNOR: It's moved. Is there a second?
15 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Let me ask, how would --
16 explain to me the 7 percent increase.
17 MS. JARRIEL: Basically, Commissioner, what we
18 did is go through position-by-position and determine
19 what salary increases would be required to retain and
20 recruit quality staff. The 7 percent was simply the
21 mechanism to attain that.
22 We took the total dollars that were required,
23 the 7 percent on the gross salary base results in the
24 absolute number of dollars required to target those
25 particular positions. We'd be happy to provide more
16
1 detail if you would like.
2 COMMISSIONER NELSON: How does that interface
3 with the typical 3 percent increase for normal
4 employees?
5 MS. JARRIEL: We would provide a 3 percent
6 across the board to our employees as well. The
7 excess amount is the amount that's required to
8 provide the correct beginning and mid level salaries
9 for our professional investment staff to retain them.
10 COMMISSIONER NELSON: So everybody gets 3
11 percent, and then that additional 4 percent that
12 would be applied to everybody is used at the
13 discretion of the management in rewarding various
14 employees?
15 MS. JARRIEL: That is correct, for performance
16 and to adjust the salaries as needed to prevent the
17 loss of professionals to private industry which has
18 occurred over the last few years.
19 COMMISSIONER NELSON: I am not prepared at this
20 point to second it, Governor.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Maybe we need to study it some
22 more. I just would point out we are dealing with an
23 agency we just complemented the fellow that's leaving
24 because he's about doubled the investment portfolio.
25 Highly specialized people, competing, and we are
17
1 losing Ash Williams because he is going to make
2 probably three or four times as much money as he was
3 making before. We may have to pay more money to get
4 somebody to take his place.
5 So I just think you -- I understand that we've
6 got a situation which we are trying to run, and we
7 don't want other state employees to feel like they
8 are being treated unfairly. But the whole idea of
9 some merit raises -- maybe what we need to do is see
10 more about how the merit raises are selected.
11 It makes sense to me, if you look at our
12 universities and you see how we pay, you look at our
13 medical schools and you see how we pay, there are
14 many areas in which we pay on the basis of the need
15 and competence and merit. And if there is an agency
16 that is making a fair return on our money, I would
17 say it's this agency.
18 COMMISSIONER NELSON: I agree with all of that.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I, too, Governor, share
20 the concerns of perception and really thought about
21 this a long time before agreeing to go along with
22 it. And really what it turned on was the fact that
23 the incentives are really going to entry level and
24 mid management. Those are the areas that they have
25 difficulty retaining. And unfortunately, we lose a
18
1 lot of good people unless we are willing to pay the
2 price to continue the excellent performance of the
3 trust fund.
4 MS. JARRIEL: Our goal was actually to continue
5 to build the next senior management staff. And the
6 only way we'll be able to do that is to continue to
7 retain the entry level and mid level talented young
8 professionals that are coming in today. And with the
9 7 percent included, we're still on a total budgetary
10 basis managing the assets which are 50 too big for
11 pension and another 15 or so for local governments
12 and other activities at that two basis point on
13 assets charge, which is tremendously lower than the
14 cost to the state through private industry which
15 would be the only other alternative could we not
16 retain those professionals.
17 THE GOVERNOR: I assume that we'll defer this
18 item then.
19 MS. JARRIEL: The next item actually has two
20 components as well. The current acting executive
21 director for the SBA is operating under a delegation
22 of authority from the previous director which expires
23 today. We request appointment of the acting
24 executive director until such time as a permanent
25 director can be selected.
19
1 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Move it.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I second that
3 portion of it.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded for the
5 appointment of Barbara Jarriel as the acting
6 executive director.
7 Without objection, that's approved.
8 MS. JARRIEL: The other item is the initiation
9 of the search and selection process for a permanent
10 executive director, and it's my understanding that
11 the Trustees would like to agenda that item for the
12 July 9th meeting.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Without objection, deferred to
14 the July 9th meeting.
15 MS. JARRIEL: The last item we have attached
16 for your review, the reports of the acting executive
17 director which include investment performance and
18 bank designations.
19 COMMISSIONER NELSON: I move it.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I second it.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and second. Without
22 objection, the report is accepted.
23
24
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Bond Finance.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Excuse me. A question
3 was just raised as to deferring that one item to the
4 9th of July? No, next meeting. And whether or not
5 we will have authority to even act upon it based on
6 attendance of the Trustees?
7 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Well, I will be there the
8 9th.
9 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: When is the next
10 meeting?
11 THE GOVERNOR: June 25.
12 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: So if we delay it until
13 June 9, which means we'll not be able to start the
14 new year with pay raises, although we can retroactive
15 --
16 COMMISSIONER NELSON: As far as I am concerned,
17 we can do it at the next meeting. The next meeting
18 is fine with me.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's a nonproblem. I am
20 sorry I brought it up.
21 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Well, is it going to be
22 June 25 or July 9?
23 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Going to have to be
24 July 9.
25 THE GOVERNOR: So it's July 9. All right.
21
1 Another thing has been pointed out to me. We voted
2 just to continue that item. We need a vote to
3 continue their budget, which would terminate on July
4 1. So I think we should have --
5 COMMISSIONER NELSON: I move it.
6 THE GOVERNOR: So this will be sort of like a
7 continuing resolution.
8 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Yes.
9 THE GOVERNOR: -- to continue the budget until
10 we meet on the other.
11 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: I second that.
12 THE GOVERNOR: That's moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's adopted.
14 (The State Board of Administration was
15 concluded.)
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1 THE GOVERNOR: Division of Bond Finance.
2 MR. WATKINS: Item number 1 is approval of the
3 minutes of the May 29th meeting.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Moved.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Seconded.
6 THE GOVERNOR: -- and seconded. Without
7 objection, approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item number 2 is a report of the
9 award of a 11.2 million dollar bond issue for the
10 Board of Regents for construction of a student
11 apartment facility at Florida A&M University.
12 The bonds were sold at competitive sale on May
13 30 and awarded to the low bidder at a true interest
14 rate of approximately 5.77 percent.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Good interest rate.
16 MR. WATKINS: Thank you. Item 3 and 4, I am
17 going to turn over --
18 THE GOVERNOR: Let's get item 2 approved
19 first.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Moved.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Seconded.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Move and seconded. Without
23 objection, it's approved.
24 MR. WATKINS:Items 3 and 4 I am going to turn
25 over to Susan Leigh, executive director of Florida
23
1 Housing Finance Agency.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So moved.
3 MS. LEIGH: I appreciate the opportunity to
4 present my things in person today.
5 The first item on the agenda is adoption of
6 resolution authorizing negotiated sales of following
7 Housing Revenue Bonds on behalf and at the request of
8 the Florida Housing Finance Agency.
9 Item A is Praxis Deerfield Beach and item B is
10 Spinnaker Cove.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I believe it's moved.
12 Secretary, did you --
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I will second it.
15 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MS. LEIGH: Item number 4, I have spoken with
18 all of you, I think, except for Commissioner
19 Crawford, individually about this issue. It is
20 something -- and I have had several questions as to
21 why we are presenting this to the Cabinet this
22 morning.
23 And the board, my board has asked me to
24 represent to you that we heard your concerns a year
25 ago or in the last couple of years, that you would
24
1 like us to look at how we do business and perhaps
2 address it in different ways or to get people
3 comfortable with the way we do business or to change
4 the way we do business to do away with any perception
5 of anything going on other than the best thing for
6 the State of Florida.
7 What we have done over the past year is work on
8 the specific issue of competitive versus negotiated
9 bonds. And I think part of the concern comes from
10 the fact that everyone else that comes before you
11 does competitive transactions, and the Housing Agency
12 continually comes before you to do negotiated
13 transactions.
14 Unfortunately, that has been a nature of the
15 type of transactions that we do, being housing versus
16 other lesser complex transactions. All be that the
17 case and what you will find in the report that your
18 staff has and that we have presented to you is a
19 compilation of information, not only from
20 professionals within the industry, but people that
21 don't make money off of this agency in the industry,
22 which I think is very important; with the Government
23 Finance Association and the Municipal Finance
24 Journal, you will find several articles that kind of
25 explain when do you do competitive and when do you do
25
1 negotiated.
2 I am happy to report that the board has
3 authorized staff to move forward on a competitive
4 transaction for the fall in September. We will be
5 doing a single family transaction which we think is
6 the easiest and the one that makes the most sense and
7 will be efficient for the state.
8 We have chosen or we are in the process of
9 choosing a structuring agent to help us with that.
10 We are working with the Division of Bond Finance to
11 try to figure out if there is a better way for us to
12 go through this process that will address everyone's
13 concern with it.
14 We are willing and able to, if anybody has any
15 suggestions or ways to make the process better, we
16 want to incorporate that into this process. Those
17 decisions will be made over the next month.
18 There is still time to incorporate anything
19 that anybody needs in there that would make them feel
20 it was more successful, because we intend, the board
21 intends and staff intends to make this a successful
22 transaction.
23 And then from there, we will look at in the
24 future how we evaluate, so that we have a true
25 evaluation of whether we should be doing negotiated
26
1 or competitive.
2 I will say that all housing transactions in the
3 state, even though they do not come before the
4 Cabinet, are done as negotiated transactions. It
5 just so happens you get to hear about ours.
6 We also have information about what other
7 states do, if people want to look at that in greater
8 detail. Our bottom line is that we are supposed to
9 provide affordable housing for the citizens of the
10 state, and we have to do that in the most efficient
11 and effective method because we have no general
12 revenue. We do not have the full faith and credit of
13 the state of Florida behind our bonds. And we have
14 to structure each transaction so that it actually
15 cash flows on a deal by deal basis.
16 And the other thing I think that it's important
17 to understand is that the agency five years ago
18 implemented an ethics rule prior to the division,
19 prior to SEC regulations, that said if you do
20 business with the agency, you cannot make
21 contributions to the Governor or Cabinet, the
22 individuals that would look at our transactions; and
23 also, that there is a -- the Division of Bond Finance
24 sets the fees for these transactions, and the board
25 picks who participates in them.
27
1 So there is a separation that the agency does
2 not have the ability to set fees for those
3 individuals that work for us in terms of the bond
4 business.
5 Are there any questions?
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Just a couple of quick
7 questions. Susan, you mentioned using a single
8 family versus multifamily for purposes of this first
9 go around. And let me also say that I applaud you
10 for hearing our concerns and wanting to take a
11 different look at this, and I appreciate it and I am
12 sure all the members do.
13 What specifically makes the first go around
14 more important to move for single family versus
15 multifamily?
16 MS. LEIGH: In these transactions, the
17 developer on the multifamily side is the ultimate
18 user of those bonds. And they -- what happens in
19 that process and how we structure that deal, most the
20 housing bonds are what you call story bonds. You
21 have to go out and say this is what this is about.
22 We don't have full faith and credit, but look, we got
23 this kind of coverage on the transaction.
24 One of the transactions that you approving
25 today has 1.35 deck coverage. We have to make each
28
1 transaction very specific, and that has to be sold
2 and talked about in the market to get your best rate.
3 The developer pays the fees.
4 In a single family transaction -- so there is a
5 failure in that process, there is an individual that
6 is hurt in that process.
7 In a single family, the state is issuing the
8 bonds, and we are setting the fee structure based on
9 what it's going to cost us to do the transaction. We
10 have done several single families recently that we
11 think that this one will be fairly similar to -- the
12 market is familiar with this transaction, so
13 therefore, it's not as important to discuss it in the
14 market. And it should sell because they should be
15 able to look back and see the last two we did were
16 Triple A or Double A. And it should sell fairly
17 quickly.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Would it be your intent
19 then to try for a multifamily in the future,
20 understanding what you said, but also understanding
21 it's half a loaf?
22 MS. LEIGH: Right. One of the things we are
23 looking at is we were looking at structure agents for
24 the agency, was what other types of experience that
25 they had, and there are several firms that have some
29
1 very specific experience in multifamily. And so
2 there are things we considered doing this summer that
3 I think we are going to try to work with them on to
4 see if we can do that.
5 So our intent is not to just say we are going
6 to do the single family, we are not going to think
7 about it again. Our intent is to create a situation
8 in which we can take an honest look, have somebody
9 that has that type of experience working with us to
10 help us get there.
11 So then you're evaluating each particular
12 transaction, whether it's multi-or single, but we
13 started with the single.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: You mentioned making the
15 process better. I don't know if this will or not,
16 but I sense what we are going through here -- and I
17 think if you want to call it pilots, we can to see
18 how it works. You have finance managers that you
19 work with as a member of your team when you do these
20 things?
21 MS. LEIGH: What we have had in the past, by
22 statute, the agency is not permitted to hire a
23 financial advisor, or they can but they cannot do
24 business with the agency again in terms of purchasing
25 bonds for two years.
30
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Would it be appropriate
2 -- and I am throwing this out for the members as much
3 as you. Is it a potential that we could use one of
4 the contracted financial managers through the
5 division to sort of sit as a member of this team as
6 we go through these pilots?
7 MS. LEIGH: Absolutely.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: To sort of be able to
9 monitor for the Cabinet?
10 MS. LEIGH: Absolutely. We welcome -- the
11 division is notified when we first start a
12 transaction. They can participate at any point
13 forward from there to the extent they can sit in on
14 every conference call and everything that's involved
15 in it to the very end. They do the pricing, they do
16 the fees. They are more than welcome. We'd welcome
17 their participation in reviewing this. The more
18 eyes, the better.
19 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's certainly not an
20 integrity issue, it's just one of liaison as we work
21 through this because it is new.
22 MS. LEIGH: We welcome it.
23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I don't know what kind of
24 an act that would take, if it's appropriate.
25 THE GOVERNOR: I think she said we are looking
31
1 at the procedure, we hope that could be incorporated
2 into the procedure that you are talking about.
3 Susan, you mentioned that back in '91 I think
4 that we made some changes in regard to
5 contributions. That was again to make sure that we
6 were protecting ourselves and protecting the state so
7 that in the future, there couldn't be any problems.
8 So I think we continue to look for things that were
9 preventive problems, but also would give great
10 credibility to what you are doing and what we are
11 doing and what the public sees we are doing here.
12 And I applaud you for what you are talking
13 about now. I would think that looking at something
14 like a little further separation, saying the Division
15 of Bond Finance would be selecting some of the fiscal
16 advisers or fiscal agents for these housing things as
17 opposed to the authority itself would again be one of
18 those steps, just like we took in '91 in regard to
19 contributions, to just signify that we are concerned
20 and are going to continue to do everything that we
21 can to protect the integrity of the process.
22 MS. LEIGH: I think the agency has been a
23 leader in that and would go -- will always be the
24 first one ahead to try to do that. Because we
25 understand the perception problems that occur. And
32
1 with the kind of money that we deal with on a
2 day-to-day basis, it's a constant concern of ours,
3 too.
4 THE GOVERNOR: The other thing I would say, I
5 am delighted that you are moving towards a sale on
6 the bid sale. Every argument that we are hearing
7 now, that we have continued to hear, we heard on the
8 basis of all our sales back in the time we did it.
9 And all sales virtually by most people, other states
10 even, were done, the kind of sales that we were doing
11 were done on a negotiated basis. That had been the
12 history of Florida forever. And there were a lot of
13 doom sayers as to what would happen.
14 Now, it's sort of infrequent, but sometimes we
15 have a negotiated sale, and we think that is the best
16 thing; but almost all of our sales are on the basis
17 of the public offering. And over the period of time,
18 we have done very well in our interest rates. I
19 think we are ahead of most other people doing that.
20 MS. LEIGH: One of the individuals we chose
21 did the first deal in Alabama for the Housing Agency
22 there, their first competitive. So we are hopeful.
23 The board is very enthusiastic and has made it very
24 clear that that's where we are going.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Again, I don't have the
33
1 expertise to know whether single family is the best
2 thing you should do or multiple family, but I hope
3 you would get the best advice you can get as to what
4 is the best way to have a good experience on that.
5 MS. LEIGH: I would also like to report to you
6 that one of the things, as I said, we are supposed to
7 address need. We have built 190,000 units, 36,000
8 single family and 14,000 multifamily, over the past
9 15 years.
10 The need right now is by the year 2000, 180,000
11 multifamily and on single family, about 400,000.
12 With one of our single family transactions, $40
13 million is usually about 600 families.
14 So we have a long way to go to try to meet some
15 of those. But we are moving down that road to try to
16 build a sense of community in the state and work with
17 the local governments to do that.
18 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you. Did we have a motion
19 on the report?
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: I move it and ask that we
21 include the issue of the financial manager through
22 the Division of Bond Services.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
24 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved. Thank you.
34
1 (The Division of Bond Finance concluded.)
2
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7
8
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35
1 *
2 THE GOVERNOR: State Board of Education.
3 MR. PIERSON: Item one is minutes of meeting
4 held August 21.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
8 object, approved.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is statewide programming
10 contract for Florida's Public Television Stations.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Seconded.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Can I raise a question?
15 Tell me a little bit about the contract. I have a
16 little information on it. Apparently it was a
17 directed contract.
18 MR. PIERSON: It was directed in proviso
19 language in the appropriations bill.
20 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Directed that it had to
21 go to a specific agency?
22 MR. PIERSON: Yes.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I find it interesting
24 that the agency that it went to is an active Florida
25 nonprofit corporation run by a particular individual
36
1 or registered agent, particular individual. And that
2 just recently, a nonprofit or for profit corporation
3 was formed, and that same individual is the
4 registered agent. Does that cause you any concern?
5 MR. PIERSON: I wasn't aware of it personally,
6 sir. Erick Smith is here who is the agent that's
7 administering the contract.
8 MR. SMITH: The nonprofit corporation is made
9 up of Florida's Public Radio and Television
10 Stations. There are some ventures that they were
11 looking at because of the demise of other funding for
12 public broadcasting.
13 The advice of counsel was that if they got into
14 any of these other ventures, they should form a for
15 profit corporation. The corporation has been
16 formed. It's not active in its operation at this
17 time.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you know, we just
19 finished discussion on negotiated versus competitive
20 contracting. And I just find this to be a little bit
21 unusual.
22 MR. SMITH: I can answer the reason for the
23 contract language. The legislature selects, has
24 selected this organization to produce Today In The
25 Legislature. They used the same facilities in the
37
1 Capitol, the same equipment, and it's just not set
2 up so that two separate organizations could use the
3 same equipment and work out of the same facilities.
4 That's the reason they directed that the same
5 contractor be employed for both contracts.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Generally the legislature works
7 in mysterious ways. It's wonders to perform.
8 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: I appreciate that,
9 Governor, and I thank you for your answer. And at
10 this point, I will just march on and see what
11 happens.
12 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Up the hill?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Up the hill.
14 THE GOVERNOR: Without objection.
15 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: I do object.
16 THE GOVERNOR: All right. We note with an
17 objection, it's approved. Item 3.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is an amendment to state
19 board rule 6A-1.0014 on the Comprehensive Management
20 Information System.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
24 objection, it's approved.
25 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is a State University
38
1 system item on eminent domain which we'd request you
2 withdraw from the agenda.
3 THE GOVERNOR: Without objections, withdrawn.
4 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 are appointments to the
5 Edison Community College District Board of Trustees.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
8 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
9 objection, they are approved.
10 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is appointment to the Polk
11 Community College District Board Of Trustees.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
13 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and second. Without
15 objection, it's approved.
16 (State Board of Education was concluded.)
17 *
18
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39
1 THE GOVERNOR: Administration Commission.
2 MS. SITTIG: Item number 1, recommend approval
3 of the minutes of the meeting held May 14, 1996.
4 SECRETARY MORTHAM: So moved.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, minutes are approved.
8 MS. SITTIG: Recommend the transfer of general
9 revenue appropriations under items A and B in the
10 Department of Health and Rehabilitative Services.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move.
12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
13 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
14 objection, A and B are approved.
15 MS. SITTIG: Item 3, recommend the transfer of
16 general revenue appropriations in the Justice
17 Administration Commission.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So moved.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
21 objection, it's approved.
22 MS. SITTIG: Item number 4, recommend the
23 transfer of general revenue appropriations in the
24 Department of Juvenile Justice.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
40
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
3 objection, it's approved.
4 MS. SITTIG: Item number 5, recommend the
5 transfer of general revenue appropriations for the
6 Agency For Health Care Administration.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
10 objection, it's approved.
11 MS. SITTIG: Item number 6, request deferral of
12 this item until the June 20 meeting.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move.
14 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Second.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Motion to
16 defer is granted.
17 MS. SITTIG: Item 7, recommend the transfer of
18 general revenue appropriations in the Department of
19 Corrections.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
22 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
23 objection, it's approved.
24 MS. SITTIG: Item number 8, recommend the
25 transfer of general revenue appropriations in the
41
1 Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, it's approved.
6 MS. SITTIG: Item number 9, recommend the
7 transfer of general revenue appropriations under
8 items A and B in the Department of Health and Human
9 Services.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move items A and B.
11 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
12 objection, A and B are approved.
13 MS. SITTIG: Item 10, recommend the transfer of
14 general revenue appropriations under items A and B in
15 the Justice Administration Commission.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
19 objection, A and B are approved.
20 MS. SITTIG: Item 11, recommend the
21 establishment of three positions in excess of the
22 number fixed by the legislature in the Agency for
23 Health Care Administration.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
25 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
42
1 objection, it's approved.
2 MS. SITTIG: Item 12, recommend the transfer of
3 general revenue appropriations in the Department of
4 Health and Rehabilitative Services.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
8 objection, it's approved.
9 MS. SITTIG: Item 13, recommend the temporary
10 transfer of funds in the state treasury to the
11 general revenue fund in the Department of Banking and
12 Finance.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, it's approved.
17 MS. SITTIG: And item 14, recommend the
18 temporary transfer of up to $154 million from the
19 trust funds in the state treasury to the county
20 revenue sharing trust fund and up to 27 million to
21 the municipal revenue sharing trust.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
23 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
24 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
25 objection, it's approved.
43
1 MS. SITTIG: Thank you.
2 (Administration Commission was concluded.)
3 *
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44
1 THE GOVERNOR: Board of Trustees.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 1, minutes of the April 23
3 meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
6 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, it's approved.
8 MR. GREEN: Item 2, consideration of adoption
9 of a policy on the use of eminent domain policy.
10 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I would like to
11 move this item, and also congratulate staff. It just
12 appears to us that you've heard all the concerns and
13 all the questions that have been raised on this issue
14 over the past months, and we appreciate the hard work
15 and it looks good.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
17 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and second. Without
18 objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 3, consideration of a request
20 to purchase 575 square feet.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
24 objection, it's approved.
25 MR. GREEN: Consideration of a purchase
45
1 agreement, item 4.
2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
4 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Item 5, consideration of an option
7 agreement.
8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
9 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
10 objection, it's approved.
11 MR. GREEN: Item 6, consideration of an option
12 agreement.
13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move it.
14 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
15 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
16 objection, it's approved.
17 MR. GREEN: Substitute item 7, consideration
18 request to terminate an option agreement.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Move.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
21 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
22 objection, it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 8, consideration of
24 authorization to acquire.
25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
46
1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
2 MR. GREEN: George Wilson would like to speak
3 to the board for a second.
4 MR. WILSON: Governor, Members of the Cabinet,
5 thank for you for the opportunity to speak today.
6 Because of Preservation 2000, nearly every month you
7 have the opportunity to vote on a conservation
8 project that's really of national significance, and
9 it's getting almost routine.
10 On this one I have been asked to speak. A lot
11 of people have put a number of years of work in on
12 this and wanted me to make a few comments about the
13 good work of your department and of the South Florida
14 District.
15 Your vote on this project gives final approval
16 to the purchase of the largest single ownership on
17 the Kissimmee River. It begins the transfer to
18 public ownership of one of Florida's best privately
19 managed natural areas.
20 These lands are the product of 60 years of
21 excellent private land stewardship and wildlife
22 conservation and will pass to the joint custody of
23 the South Florida Water Management District and the
24 Trustees for restoration and preservation.
25 It's a significant challenge to both the
47
1 District and the State Park System.
2 On behalf of the Nature Conservancy, John
3 Flicker with the National Audubon, we would like to
4 recognize the extraordinary work of the South Florida
5 Water Management District staff and DEP, Division of
6 Recreation and Parks, in their work with landowners,
7 elected officials, the business community and the
8 citizens of Okeechobee County in the creation of this
9 river restoration and park opportunity.
10 Some 13 years ago I represented DER in the
11 final hearings for the restoration on Kissimmee
12 River. Because of the way the landowners were
13 whipsawed back between public priorities that the
14 ditch was good for you, the ditch is bad for you, it
15 was hard for a lot of landowners to really believe
16 government and what was good or bad for the
17 restoration of the Kissimmee.
18 I wouldn't have given you a plug nickel of that
19 time for the opportunity to be able to work with the
20 Latt Maxcy Corporation like this on a park of
21 national significance. But unique opportunities do
22 come along, and the district and the DEP were able to
23 coordinate the programs and were able to work with
24 the owners of the 128,000 acre ranch and cherrypick
25 48,000 acres and all the riverfront out of that ranch
48
1 to cut the ranch off from the river from some of the
2 traditional uses and basically preserve one of the
3 largest areas of rare Florida prairie and four unique
4 tributary streams to the Kissimmee River.
5 It's a very significant natural area. Because
6 of the program coordination, we are able to bring you
7 this transaction without costly condemnation suits
8 and a below-market sale at a bargain sale.
9 Governor, the people you appoint at the South
10 Florida Water Management District and the people that
11 all of you supervise in the DEP have done an
12 excellent job in coordinating their programs. We
13 have a landowner who is satisfied. We have a
14 tremendous amount of people in Okeechobee County that
15 are going to be happy to have a park.
16 There were two CARL projects you approved in
17 February that had a timeliness that had to be done in
18 a certain quick time period. One of them was Camp
19 Helen, Lake Powell. The Division of State Lands
20 closed that last Friday, and very successful and on
21 time. And this project should close on time also
22 with the help of the district.
23 We also -- the project participants would
24 especially like to recognize the project mentoring we
25 received from the long-time Okeechobee County
49
1 resident, landowner, cattleman and South Florida
2 Governing Board member, Sonny Williamson, who has
3 been especially helpful in this and also Nat Reed.
4 I would like to close by sharing the closing
5 remarks of the Okeechobee County chair, Cliff Betts,
6 who chaired a special joint county commissioner this
7 spring, meeting of the Chamber of Commerce, the
8 Economic Development Council of Okeechobee County, to
9 look at the tax ramifications of taking such a large
10 piece of land off of the tax roll in Okeechobee
11 County, and to also look at the river access
12 opportunities for the people of the county, for
13 tourists, and to look at the economic opportunities
14 of echo tourism by making a park here.
15 Chairman Betts' final remarks in supporting the
16 park concept was that this park may be the best thing
17 that ever happened to Okeechobee County. A very,
18 very positive meeting, and that positive work was
19 because of the really good work of the park staff and
20 the South Florida staff and in working with the
21 locals to find out what they wanted here.
22 On behalf of the Nature Conservancy and a broad
23 spectrum of environmental groups, we thank you today
24 for your vote to protect both the Kissimmee River and
25 to restore it. We thank you very much for the
50
1 opportunity to speak.
2 THE GOVERNOR: We thank you very much for your
3 appearance and for your kind words. We hear a lot of
4 things about why echo management doesn't work and all
5 of the failures that we are making. It's very, very
6 nice to hear something, and it is obvious that an
7 awful lot of people worked very hard for this. This
8 is going to be very meaningful for the state of
9 Florida.
10 Again, looking at what happened to the
11 Kissimmee over the years, and how it looked like we'd
12 never untangle it. And even when we started, it was
13 said that we would never be able to do anything to
14 get the river back and put it back or have it be
15 anything like it was before. It's nice to see this
16 project, but very nice to have your supportive words.
17 MR. WILSON: Thank you for the opportunity.
18 THE GOVERNOR: It's been moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. GREEN: Item 9, recommend deferral until
21 the July 9 meeting.
22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move to defer.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
24 objection, it's approved.
25 MR. GREEN: Item 10, consideration of an
51
1 application to modify a five-year sovereignty
2 submerged land lease.
3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
4 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
6 objection, it's approved.
7 MR. GREEN: Substitute item 11, request
8 withdrawal.
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move it.
10 THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
11 objection, it's approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 12 is consideration of a
13 five-year sovereignty submerge land use in Palm Beach
14 County, the Juno pier item.
15 Governor, we have a number of speakers on each
16 side today. This item has been before you three
17 other occasions. I would recommend that we give 20
18 minutes per side to make presentation.
19 THE GOVERNOR: Very well.
20 MR. GREEN: The county will start or the
21 applicant will start, and they have asked their --
22 some of their time be reserved for rebuttal at the
23 end of the meeting. And then the opposition will
24 make their presentation.
25 Commissioner Warren Newell.
52
1 MR. NEWELL: Good morning. You know, it's a
2 pleasure to be here today. And you know it's an
3 important issue when I get on a small airplane in the
4 middle of the summer, with those big thunder boomers
5 out there behind my house.
6 Sometimes we talk about the pier as being a
7 local issue, maybe a regional issue in the north part
8 of the county. But I can tell you that it's a
9 countywide issue.
10 Our commission is supportive. Ken Foster,
11 chairman of the commission, is also supportive. In
12 fact, Commissioner Erinson had written you a letter I
13 think just recently supporting it.
14 When I took office, I had all these questions
15 about visions and things about the county. And my
16 families lived in Palm Beach County for over 80
17 years. And my vision has always been creating a
18 better place for my family to grow up and giving more
19 opportunities for my family to recreate.
20 I still remember 25 years ago when I sat on
21 Juno pier and fished in the summer. My mom and dad
22 would bring me, drop me off with my neighbors, and
23 Juno pier was a small pier, a very safe pier. I
24 spent every summer on that pier. And not -- my
25 parents didn't worry about where I was or was I in
53
1 trouble.
2 And it was sort of neat, too, because I always
3 remembered those days, and I still remember them very
4 vividly today. And I remember those three snook that
5 sat in the bottom of the pier I used to throw rocks
6 at to try to get them to move. And if you are a
7 snook fisherman, you know what I am talking about.
8 You know, I guess it was last Tuesday I spoke
9 to the executive of the Wackenhut Corporation. And
10 if you didn't know, the national headquarters of
11 Wackenhut is now in Palm Beach County. And he stated
12 to me the number one reason that Wackenhut moved to
13 Palm Beach County was because how the community
14 presented itself with recreational activities,
15 especially using the water.
16 And he also stated the pier was very important
17 to him because his company was moving many, many
18 families to the north part of the county. You know,
19 this is a very important issue to many, many people
20 in the community. And I know and I appreciate the
21 time you all have taken, all the lobbyists involved
22 from both sides, and as an elected official sometimes
23 you have to get past all that lobbying and think
24 about what's correct and best for the community and
25 all the residents of Palm Beach County.
54
1 And I can tell you there are thousands waiting
2 to hear what your decision is. And I hope you give
3 Commissioner Roberts and Commissioner Marcus a few
4 minutes at the completion of both presentations to
5 sum up.
6 And again, thank you very much for this
7 opportunity.
8 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Commissioner.
9 MR. TWIGHTFORD: Good morning, Governor and
10 Cabinet members, my name is Tom Twightford. I am the
11 executive director of the West Palm Beach Fishing
12 Club. We have currently over 1300 members I am
13 representing here today. And I have also been asked
14 to represent the members of the Jupiter Inlet
15 Off-Shore Fishing Club and the Mako Owners Club, two
16 other clubs in Palm Beach County, that all support
17 the proposed pier.
18 I want to make it clear for starters that as
19 fishermen, we understand, accept and are aware of the
20 restrictions that this pier is to operate under. I
21 think as a whole, recreational anglers are custodians
22 of the resource. We care about turtles just as much
23 as anybody. We understand the restrictions. We
24 support them.
25 But somewhere buried underneath this turtle
55
1 issue the people issue has been overlooked. This
2 pier is for the people, people who can't afford to
3 own a boat, people who don't have the money to hire a
4 guide, people who fish for fun, people who fish for
5 food, people in the audience here that are holding
6 these signs. Look at them. These are people that
7 represent the cross section of our community, young
8 and old, people from all walks of. These are the
9 people -- they endured a long bus trip last night to
10 be here. These are the people who represent the
11 folks that are going to utilize this facility.
12 I also have with me here 4,651 signed petitions
13 of other people that couldn't be here today that
14 support the pier. And I would like to submit those
15 for the record.
16 Don't be fooled into thinking that there are
17 plenty of places for people to fish from shore in
18 Palm Beach County to catch marine fish. There
19 aren't. At one time when we had a population of
20 200,000 people, there were three piers that supported
21 that population. We are up to almost a million
22 people living in Palm Beach County, we are down to
23 one pier.
24 If you think that the bridges across the
25 intracoastal waterway, the several jetties that we
56
1 have that are still accessible are substitutes for a
2 pier, you are wrong. They are not. They are not
3 safe places for kids to fish. They are inaccessible
4 to many handicapped people. They are not safe places
5 for many elderly people. It's no substitute for a
6 fishing pier.
7 A fishing pier, this one, will extend almost
8 900 feet into the ocean. And what a pier does is it
9 gives anglers that don't have the boat a year-round
10 opportunity to catch fish and be more productive at
11 it and catch a greater variety of fish.
12 You are going to hear from other people that we
13 got all these miles of beaches that people can fish
14 from. At best, fishing off the beach is only good
15 seasonally. And again, it's not accessible to people
16 that are confined to a wheelchair, for example.
17 So don't be mislead. We need greater access.
18 We care about the turtles. But the need for this
19 facility greatly outweighs any impact, real or
20 perceived, that this structure is going to have on
21 the community or marine turtles.
22 We are asking you to do what's in the best
23 interest of the majority of the people and not a
24 vocal few. Thank you very much.
25 MR. McROBERTS: Hello, Governor and Cabinet
57
1 members, people for the pier and people for the
2 turtles, my name is Samuel J. McRoberts. I have been
3 a resident of Palm Beach County for 33 years, and I
4 spent some of the better times in my youth at the
5 Juno Beach fishing pier. I also went to Florida
6 State University and graduated with honors in the
7 business college.
8 I've got to say I saw hundreds of turtles lay
9 their nests, even some under the pier, and nobody
10 back then said anything about it. That pier was
11 there for 25 years and it hasn't survived. The
12 turtles have survived fine, though.
13 I have never seen a pier ever hurt a turtle,
14 that's never kept a turtle from laying its eggs nor
15 have I ever heard of a pier keeping hatchlings from
16 making it back into the ocean. The big problem are
17 boats, nets, and condominium lights.
18 The very people that are here against the pier
19 are the people from the Town of Jupiter and
20 condominiums that are on the west side of AIA.
21 It's a public beach down there, and the
22 property we are talking about is Palm Beach County
23 property. It's five acres, the parking is all
24 there.
25 Recently they made a trade to tear down the sea
58
1 grapes to a short height in order for the condominium
2 owners to replace the exotic trees that were there.
3 They knew then when they did this trade off, that
4 condominium lights caused turtles to get disoriented.
5 And it's in yesterday's local section that 15 nests
6 got disoriented and many turtles died. This is
7 the wrong thing for responsible government people to
8 do.
9 Anyway, my main point is here is there is 45
10 miles of ocean front in Palm Beach County. I am just
11 asking all of you up here to be responsible to the
12 children especially and also to the senior citizens.
13 All you are asking here for the people that are for
14 the pier are less than six inches per mile, or if you
15 factored it in one ten-thousandth of the ocean access
16 in Palm Beach County. It's not much of a
17 concession.
18 It's your duty to let common sense prevail
19 here, and don't take heed to the false alarm of the
20 people that are against the pier. There hasn't ever
21 been a pier even harm one turtle alone. Thank you.
22 MR. KENNEDY: Good morning. I am Michael
23 Kennedy, and this is the other part of my family.
24 All of us couldn't make it, like the many, many other
25 people in Palm Beach County who can't take the time
59
1 to come here.
2 But this family, like the thousands of other
3 people who have signed petitions since 1988 for this
4 pier, support this pier. And a lot of them live in
5 Jupiter. Look at the addresses, and please, please
6 look at the people. It's a broad cross section of
7 the people from our county and our town.
8 We also support these restrictions. And that's
9 what I am here to tell you about. That these
10 restrictions will protect turtles. I fished on that
11 Juno pier. I lived on that beach as a kid. I would
12 like these kids and the thousands and thousands of
13 other kids in our town to be able to do that. It's
14 better than hanging out at the mall, isn't it? Much
15 better.
16 You can give these kids a legacy, a chance to
17 go and fish, our handicapped, our elderly, poor
18 people who can't afford a boat, kids who want to go
19 fish on a summer afternoon. And these turtles will
20 be protected.
21 We are not against turtles. This family goes
22 to beach clean ups, and I am proud of that. We
23 fought for the net band, we fought for turtle
24 excluding devices on nets. We are not oblivious to
25 the concerns of turtles. This pier meets it. Your
60
1 recommendations meet it. Don't let us down, please.
2 MS. MURRAY: Good morning. My name is
3 Catherine Murray, and I am here with my daughter
4 Alison and her friend Megan, and I have an eight-year
5 son at home who wasn't able to make it.
6 We are proud to be natives of Palm Beach County
7 and support the Palm Beach County Juno Beach pier for
8 many reasons, most of all for the rich experience a
9 fishing pier provides for the young people. Spending
10 time in nature and interacting with the elements and
11 other people teach respect, reverence and stewardship
12 of our valuable resources.
13 In my youth, I had the opportunity to spend
14 many enjoyable days fishing off the Juno Beach pier,
15 and I encourage you to support this proposed pier in
16 Palm Beach County, which our community also
17 supports.
18 Today, I can take my children to the beach, I
19 can teach them about the water, the weather, the sea
20 life and sea turtles, but we need to have a safe
21 place for our children to fish and provide the needed
22 opportunity to grow Florida style.
23 MR. BREWER: Governor, members of the Cabinet,
24 actually Trustees, my name is Chester Brewer. I am
25 here on behalf of and represent the board of the Palm
61
1 Beach County chapter of the Florida Conservation
2 Association. With me is Ted Foresgren on behalf of
3 the statewide board of the Florida Conservation
4 Association.
5 Members of our board have been involved with
6 the issue. I've got to tell you when it started,
7 there was no issue with regard to a pier. Everyone
8 wanted the pier. We are aware of the pros involved,
9 and we are very aware of some of these I guess lately
10 voiced cons with regard to this pier.
11 We have been involved since the beginning. We
12 urge you, please let northern Palm Beach County have
13 its pier. It's been a 10-year process that we have
14 been going through, and this entails probably the
15 last necessary step.
16 MR. FORESGREN: I know our time is running
17 short. I will be very brief.
18 The Florida Conservation Association, I myself,
19 have personally looked at all the issues involved in
20 this pier. And the issues are difficult ones; they
21 are ones that are properly before you as Trustees,
22 on both the marine resources and the public resources
23 of people of Florida. But we believe that a fishing
24 pier, with the stringent conditions that have been
25 imposed, which are far more stringent than any
62
1 conditions that have ever been proposed for any pier
2 in the state of Florida, we believe that you can
3 strike a balance between the need to provide some
4 recreation for the average citizen, the person who
5 can't afford a boat, and the real long-term
6 protection of marine sea turtles.
7 I, too, have fond memories when I was growing
8 up. My family could not afford a boat. When I was
9 fortunate enough to have my father home on weekends,
10 we would go to the Balast Point Pier in Tampa, and
11 that was big game fishing for me at that time.
12 So I know that this type of recreational
13 opportunities is important. We also know that
14 protection of sea turtles is important. But we
15 believe that this proposal with the stringent
16 conditions, which we very firmly support, will
17 provide the proper balance.
18 And we urge you to approve the lease. Thank
19 you.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
21 MS. FLETCHER: I am Ellen Fletcher, the turtle
22 lady of Juno Beach. I was the first and only permit
23 holder, 006, in 1969.
24 For 15 years, I worked, I call it turtling,
25 night, day and Sunday, for 15 years, and the pier was
63
1 in the middle of the highest nesting records and is
2 still is without the pier.
3 But -- we had a green turtle -- we had many
4 turtles underneath the pier, where before it reaches
5 the water was a nice pier. We must replace that.
6 It's for everybody. The restrictions are not bad.
7 We didn't open nights. If they ran it, if they run
8 it, with the same rules as the old wooden pier, it
9 will be excellent, just excellent.
10 And it covers the children and the elderly.
11 And I know how much it means to those, and the school
12 children. I went to the schools. The children in
13 the schools, they must -- the worse restrictions are
14 from the turtle people, protection and all that,
15 conservation.
16 But those people have not even dug a nest.
17 They haven't even had the experience the kids have
18 had for the last 27 years. So we need that pier for
19 all people. Thank you.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
21 MR. YOUNG: Thank you, Governor and Cabinet.
22 My name is Lorenzo Young. I work with the community
23 base group out of Jupiter called the Limestone Creek
24 Community Development Corporation. And as we were
25 looking at strategies to help revitalize our
64
1 community, one of the major things that we looked at
2 were the amenities that would help youth, those who
3 were we considered troubled or at-risk. And we
4 looked at the Juno Beach pier as an opportunity, not
5 just for people of Palm Beach County, but part of the
6 strategy that we would also like to see come about.
7 I think a key thing here to look at is
8 youth needing things to do and places to go. This is
9 an opportunity that a family can take their kids and
10 enjoy the amenities of Palm Beach County.
11 For low to moderate income people, who may not
12 be able to afford a motor boat of their own, this is
13 an excellent opportunity. And I think fishing is one
14 of the greatest resources that Florida has to offer.
15 So when we come as a community -- and there is some
16 other residents of our small community, which mostly
17 the minority -- we are very excited about the
18 opportunity.
19 And we hope that the Governor and Cabinet take
20 a real serious look that we, as part of our strategy,
21 have opened up our community with the Greenways
22 project. And we know a lot of times that it might
23 not be what we want it to be, but it's doing the
24 right thing.
25 I think we need to look at that as being a
65
1 serious issue here rather than succumbing to the
2 interest of a few. I think the consideration of the
3 turtles is there. And just look at what's best for
4 Palm Beach County. Thank you.
5 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
6 MR. BERRY: Good morning, Governor and Cabinet
7 members. My name is Jim Berry. I am with Palm Beach
8 County Environmental Resources.
9 As an environmental permitting agency, we have
10 really worked hard and long, and we tried to address
11 head on all of the turtle issues that really have
12 been brought before you.
13 With that and to that extent, we have placed
14 specific conditions on this permit that are more
15 stringent than any fishing pier in the state of
16 Florida, and as far as I am aware, any fishing pier
17 in the world.
18 Other piers in the state of Florida have
19 turtles, but nothing of the magnitude that we have
20 placed on this pier with the specific conditions.
21 All of the professional permitting agencies --
22 the National Marine Fisheries, U.S. Fish and
23 Wildlife, Army Corps of Engineers, DEP -- all agree
24 that with the prudent and reasonable measures that we
25 have placed on this pier, we will not -- underline
66
1 the word not -- have a significant impact to marine
2 turtles.
3 That doesn't mean to say that they haven't
4 written in that there will be some take. There will
5 be absolutely minimal take. That's not -- that's a
6 tremendous trade off for the recreational advantage
7 we are getting here.
8 We have gone to the extent to hire two outside
9 consultants, gave them our information, said take
10 it. Don't try to read into it one way or the other.
11 We want to put a pier here. Give us your information
12 and see what your results will come out as.
13 Both of those came out supporting the pier,
14 specifically tagging in specific and reasonable
15 prudent conditions that we have placed on this pier.
16 So you can verbalize all you want. You can
17 rant and rave, but the agencies are all behind it.
18 And if we thought for a moment as an environmental
19 permitting agency ourselves that we were going to
20 create a problem for turtles, I can guarantee you I
21 would not be here and the agency would not be here
22 trying to get a permit for this pier. Thank you.
23 THE GOVERNOR: We have a question.
24 COMMISSIONER NELSON: You represent the
25 environmental department in Palm Beach County?
67
1 MR. BERRY: Yes, sir, I do.
2 COMMISSIONER NELSON: And you made the
3 statement about all the different agencies that
4 support this. See if you can comment and help me
5 understand this.
6 I have a letter here from the National Marine
7 Fisheries, and I quote: However, we believe that
8 operation of the pier and associated activities may
9 adversely affect loggerhead, green, leatherback and
10 hawksbill turtles during the nesting season.
11 Then I have a letter dated -- from National
12 Marine Fisheries a couple of weeks ago -- May 31,
13 that says the Juno Beach fishing pier biological
14 opinion and included incidental take estimate that
15 even with all protective measures prescribed in the
16 opinion, one green, leatherback or hawksbill turtle
17 and two loggerhead turtles will be taken each year as
18 a result of the pier project, end of quote.
19 MR. BERRY: That's correct.
20 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Now, give me your comment
21 on that.
22 MR. BERRY: I am not standing before you right
23 now telling you there will not be a single turtle
24 impacted. That would be an absolute ridiculous
25 statement to make.
68
1 And I am in agreement with those statements,
2 that they are; but what the agencies are all saying
3 that they will permit, is that that is too an
4 absolute minimal level.
5 You have 100 or more turtles at piers at Lake
6 Worth, for example, with no specific conditions on
7 it. You have a Jupiter inlet district thing that was
8 just permitted with no specific conditions on it.
9 Those will be takes, too.
10 If you look at the entire area of fishing, if
11 you said let's look at fishing along the Jupiter to
12 Juno area and you said the issue was whether we are
13 going to have fishing or not fishing -- that's
14 certainly not the issue right now -- but National
15 Marine Fisheries would have to come back and write
16 that same kind of comment because somebody could
17 potentially hook a turtle. I am not saying there
18 won't be any.
19 COMMISSIONER NELSON: Is the Lake Worth Pier
20 Beach area, is it a high concentration nest area like
21 Juno Beach?
22 MR. BERRY: No, sir, it is not.
23 COMMISSIONER NELSON: And the Jupiter Beach
24 inlet, which you referred to as a pier, are there
25 nesting turtles there?
69
1 MR. BERRY: About 200 per mile, yes, sir, not
2 anywhere near to the magnitude that there are at this
3 one.
4 COMMISSIONER NELSON: At Juno Beach?
5 MR. BERRY: That's correct. We have about
6 1100 per mile at Juno Beach. We have about 200 per
7 mile per at the jetty. We have about 100 per mile at
8 Lake Worth Pier.
9 (Attorney Butterworth exited the room.)
10 COMMISSIONER NELSON: And how many at Juno
11 Beach?
12 MR. BERRY: About 1100 per mile.
13 COMMISSIONER NELSON: 1100 nests per mile at
14 Juno Beach?
15 MR. BERRY: Nest per mile, that's correct. And
16 higher north of that, about 1700 nests per mile on
17 the other side of the jetty at Jupiter Island.
18 THE GOVERNOR: Yes.
19 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: One person before you
20 stated that were some sea grapes cut down or
21 something? I know you were explaining about in Juno
22 they cut down some sea grapes?
23 MR. BERRY: Yes, sir, the Town of Jupiter
24 permitted 1800 lineal feet of sea grapes be cut down.
25 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is that in a high turtle
70
1 nesting area?
2 MR. BERRY: That is exactly the same area we
3 are talking about, just a little bit north of it, the
4 same nesting, 1100 per mile or higher, or whatever.
5 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And there was some
6 comments made that that had the effect of taking
7 about 15 turtles? What was that?
8 MR. BERRY: The Marine Life Center did the
9 monitoring on that, and they showed disorientation,
10 total nest disorientation of 17 nests that were
11 totally disoriented. All the juveniles went the
12 wrong way through light that was let in from that
13 cutting.
14 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Who let the cutting
15 happen?
16 MR. BERRY: The Town of Jupiter.
17 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Town of Jupiter?
18 MR. BERRY: Yes, sir.
19 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So the county has no
20 control over that. The city has control.
21 MR. BERRY: No, sir, we lost that control.
22 That ordinance was taken away from us, yes, sir.
23 THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, sir.
24 MR. GREEN: For the opposition, Dr. Peter
25 Pritchard with Florida Audubon.
71
1 DR. PRITCHARD: I am Dr. Peter Pritchard. I am
2 vice-president of the Florida Audubon Society. And I
3 have to bring the board vote of 39 to 1 in opposition
4 to the Juno Beach pier.
5 And I personally am a sea turtle specialist,
6 and I've worked worldwide on sea turtles and sea
7 turtles issues and conservation and science for about
8 30 years.
9 We have a number of speakers, and I hope they
10 won't get carried away. We are going to try to keep
11 them in the available time.
12 Important to remember that Florida protected
13 sea turtles first. They did it several months before
14 the Feds did in the early 1970s. And since then, the
15 Feds have recognized Florida's expertise in the field
16 by delegating responsibility for turtle management
17 and conservation to the Department of Environmental
18 Protection and various antecedents.
19 Juno is famous worldwide. It is a place where
20 loggerheads nest in almost unprecedented numbers.
21 The only comparable numbers would be a little north
22 on Jupiter and in the areas of the Indian River
23 County and South Broward County that are slated to be
24 the Archie Carr Refuge.
25 We have taken the Archie Carr Refuge very
72
1 seriously at the state, local and national levels.
2 Tens of millions of dollars have been spent for a
3 target of 100 million dollars expenditure to make
4 sure that beach is safe and included in the refuge
5 system.
6 We are not suggesting that Juno be acquired
7 inch by inch by the state or anyone else and included
8 in the national refuge system. But we would consider
9 it as sort of almost a bazaarly opposite treatment
10 that would make little consistency or sense to allow
11 it to be developed with a thousand foot pier right in
12 the middle of it.
13 (Attorney General Butterworth enters the room.)
14 DR. PRITCHARD: The issue was discussed among a
15 gathering of international sea turtle
16 conservationists and scientists at Hiltonhead, South
17 Carolina, earlier this year. There was a caucus
18 meeting to decide on a policy. And basically, 400
19 signatures were gathered in opposition to the pier.
20 THE GOVERNOR: Excuse me, for interrupting you,
21 but what position did you all take before the City of
22 Juno in regard to the cutting of sea grapes?
23 DR. PRITCHARD: We didn't take a position on
24 that. We would have done --
25 THE GOVERNOR: You didn't have 400 scientists
73
1 meet on that and you didn't do that? This is the
2 world's best turtle beach, you just told me?
3 DR. PRITCHARD: I agree. We have incomplete
4 coverage of the issues. Some come to our attention
5 and some we don't learn about in time. And many
6 things get by us. And I am not saying that the Juno
7 pier is the worst thing that ever happened to sea
8 turtles. It's simply the issue before us today.
9 But certainly we were distressed to hear about
10 the cutting at Jupiter. Twenty-six countries,
11 representatives from 26 countries signed this
12 petition and about 10 Fish and Wildlife Service and
13 Natural Marine Fishery Service biologists signed it
14 as well in their capacity as private individuals.
15 But these are the people in the federal government
16 who know most about turtles.
17 We are disturbed about the pier for a number of
18 physical reasons -- the lighting that will be
19 necessary at the end of the pier is still not being
20 completely defined. We heard there will be one
21 light; we heard there will be three. There have to
22 be some lighting on the coast guard regulations just
23 so boating doesn't collide with it at night.
24 And if I may allude to maybe titles of various
25 films, I think titles have Basic Instinct and there
74
1 will be a Fatal Attraction with those lights out
2 there.
3 We don't have Sharon Stone to testify on our
4 behalf, but as the turtles come out of their nests,
5 they orient strongly towards light because that's the
6 only way they can decide what is the right way to
7 go.
8 And when they reach a light, whether it be a
9 port hole of a boat illuminated or light on the end
10 of a pier, they will swim up to it and continue
11 swimming right there rather than continue on past
12 it.
13 (Commissioner Milligan exits the room.)
14 This being the case, they become very
15 vulnerable to the concentrations of predators that
16 gather under -- the fish predators that gather under
17 piers and other what they call topographic submarine
18 complexity.
19 The turtles are making fragile recoveries. The
20 numbers are getting better each year. We protected
21 them for 20 years now. The fishing industry had to
22 go to enormous lengths with TEDS. Many things have
23 been done. Hatcheries have been operated, and thank
24 God we are getting some recovery. The species are
25 picking up, but it's a fragile recovery. And if we
75
1 allow development in the middle of the nesting
2 beaches, we'll set it back.
3 I am aware, too, that for the Trustees to issue
4 a permit for development of submerged sovereign
5 lands, this is not anybody's right. This is a
6 privilege extended under special circumstances when
7 you are totally convinced that it is in the public
8 interest. It's not something that simply you are
9 obliged to issue to someone who used the right form
10 to make the application.
11 There seems to be no dissent that there will be
12 an impact on endangered and threatened turtles.
13 Rehabilitation has been proposed. Fish and Wildlife
14 and National Marine Fisheries have projected some
15 anticipated numbers, rather small numbers of the
16 number of turtles they feel will be impacted.
17 My problem with them is that the numbers are
18 frankly pure speculation. My friends at the agency
19 concede that. They had to put numbers down. Here
20 are some numbers.
21 The question is: What happens when the quota
22 is reached? And I would put to you that there is no
23 mechanism in hand for removing a pier or stopping
24 operations or anything else when a quota is reached.
25 We saw this with the Texas shook fishery and they had
76
1 a permit for a certain number. The number was
2 exceeded three fold, four fold, five fold. And
