Cabinet
Affairs |
10:19 1
2 T H E C A B I N E T
3 S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
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Representing:
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INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
6 STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
7 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
8 TRUSTEES OF THE INTERNAL
IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
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10 The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Chiles
11 presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
12 February 13, 1996, commencing at approximately
9:44 a.m.
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16 Reported by:
17 LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
18 Certified Court Reporter
Notary Public in and for
19 the State of Florida at Large
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22 ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
23 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
904/878-2221
24 1-800/934-9090
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 Representing the Florida Cabinet:
3 LAWTON CHILES
Governor
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BOB CRAWFORD
5 Commissioner of Agriculture
6 BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
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SANDRA B. MORTHAM
8 Secretary of State
9 BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
10
BILL NELSON
11 Treasurer
12 FRANK T. BROGAN
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
February 13, 1996
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1 I N D E X
2 ITEM ACTION PAGE
3 INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION:
(Presented by John Douglas,
4 Interim Executive Director)
5 1 Approved 5
2 Approved 6
6
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
7 (Presented by Robert L. Bedford,
Deputy Commissioner)
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1 Approved 7
9 2 (Substitute
Amendment) Approved 43
10 (Rule Amendment) Approved 44
3 Approved 44
11 4 Approved 44
12 ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION:
(Presented by Gale Sittig,
13 Deputy Director)
14 1 Approved 45
2 Approved 45
15 3 Deferred 45
4 Approved 46
16 5 Approved 46
17 FLORIDA LAND AND WATER
ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION:
18 (Presented by Gale Sittig,
Deputy Secretary)
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1 Approved 53
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
February 13, 1996
4
1 I N D E X
(Continued)
2
ITEM ACTION PAGE
3
BOARD OF TRUSTEES,
4 INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
5 (Presented by Virginia B. Wetherell,
Secretary)
6
1 Approved 55
7 2 Approved 55
3 Approved 55
8 Second
Substitute 4 Approved 56
9 5 Approved 56
Substitute 6 Approved 56
10 7 Approved 57
8 Deferred 57
11 9 Withdrawn 122
10 Approved 159
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 160
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
February 13, 1996
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:21 a.m.)
10:19 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: And now we'll start with
10:19 4 the Information Resource Commission.
10:19 5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion on
10:19 6 minutes.
10:19 7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:19 8 MR. DOUGLAS: Good morning, Governor,
10:19 9 members of the Cabinet.
10:19 10 Item number 1, the minutes.
10:20 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: They've been moved.
10:20 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
10:20 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
10:20 14 Without objection, they're adopted.
15 MR. DOUGLAS: Item number 2, Governor, I'd
10:20 16 like to make a couple of comments on. It's our
10:20 17 annual report that we have dramatically
10:20 18 redesigned for brevity and ease of use.
10:20 19 We're attempting to develop an annual
10:20 20 report that people will want to use. It
10:20 21 includes State Agency and IRC accomplishments in
10:20 22 the area of reengineering, communications to
10:20 23 connectivity, the movement from mainframe to
10:20 24 distributed computing systems, and the
10:20 25 implementation of new technologies.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
INFORMATION RESOURCE COMMISSION
February 13, 1996
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10:20 1 It shows how the State has spent
10:20 2 $326 million last year on managing its
10:20 3 information resources. It has a complete
10:20 4 technology inventory, and includes new
10:20 5 acquisitions. The contents of this report will
10:20 6 also be on the IRC's Internet Web Site for
10:20 7 public access.
10:20 8 We recommend and request your approval of
10:20 9 this report.
10:20 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move
10:20 11 approval.
10:20 12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
10:20 13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:20 14 Without objection, the report is approved.
10:21 15 MR. DOUGLAS: Thank you, Governor.
10:21 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
17 (The Information Resource Commission Agenda
18 was concluded.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:21 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: State Board of Education.
10:21 2 MR. BEDFORD: Governor Chiles, members of
10:21 3 the State Board of Education, good morning.
10:21 4 Item 1, quarterly reports for the quarter
10:21 5 ended December 31st, 1996.
10:21 6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
10:21 7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
10:21 8 GOVERNOR CHILES: It's been moved and
10:21 9 seconded.
10 Without objection, it's adopted.
10:21 11 MR. BEDFORD: Item 2, rule 6A, dash,
10:21 12 4.0021, Amendment, Florida Teacher Certification
10:21 13 Examination deferred from the January 23rd,
10:21 14 1996, State Board of Education agenda.
10:21 15 I think at the last meeting we presented to
10:21 16 you -- the Standards Commission made a report,
10:21 17 and you asked to have this item deferred until
10:21 18 this meeting.
10:21 19 We have several people that have requested
10:21 20 permission to address the Cabinet.
10:21 21 Florence Brainerd from the Florida Reading
10:21 22 Association will be the first speaker.
10:21 23 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, can you --
10:21 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
10:21 25 TREASURER NELSON: -- can you refresh our
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:22 1 memory? What is the posture we're in?
10:22 2 The rule that is before us for adoption or
10:22 3 modification is what?
10:22 4 MR. BEDFORD: The rule that we are
10:22 5 presenting to you today is the exact same rule
10:22 6 that we had on the agenda at the last meeting.
10:22 7 TREASURER NELSON: And the two
10:22 8 controversial items there was a B or a C
10:22 9 required of teachers, and then what was the
10:22 10 other controversial point?
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: The recency --
10:22 12 MR. BEDFORD: The recency of credit,
10:22 13 whether the courses had to be taken in the last
10:22 14 five years or not.
10:22 15 TREASURER NELSON: Thank you.
10:22 16 MS. BRAINERD: Good morning, Cabinet. I'm
10:22 17 Florence Brainerd, and I represent the Florida
10:22 18 Reading Association. And the Florida Reading
10:22 19 Association represents over 9,000 members who
10:22 20 are actively interested in reading and writing
10:22 21 instruction.
10:22 22 The Florida Reading Association supports
10:22 23 the rule brought to the State Board of Education
10:22 24 by the Department of Education that provides
10:23 25 teacher certification applicants an alternative
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:23 1 method for demonstrating mastery of general
10:23 2 knowledge.
10:23 3 We believe the Department of Education's
10:23 4 proposal is fair -- a fair alternative for those
10:23 5 who cannot pass the CLAST but want to show a
10:23 6 level of expertise sufficient to meet the
10:23 7 standards of becoming a Florida teacher.
10:23 8 The proposal requires them to take an
10:23 9 affirmative step in order to earn a teacher's --
10:23 10 becoming a teacher in Florida.
10:23 11 The proposal requires them to take an
10:23 12 affirmative step in order to earn the teaching
10:23 13 certificate, and to do less would devalue the
10:23 14 long hours and hard work put by -- put in by the
10:23 15 teachers who have already passed the CLAST.
10:23 16 We need to maintain the highest standards
10:24 17 of professionalism in education, and the
10:24 18 Department of Education's rule accomplishes this
10:24 19 goal.
10:24 20 Thank you.
10:24 21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
10:24 22 MR. BEDFORD: The next person to address
10:24 23 the State Board of Education will be Tom Denmark
10:24 24 from the Florida Council of Teachers of
10:24 25 Mathematics.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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February 13, 1996
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10:24 1 MR. DENMARK: Governor Chiles, members of
10:24 2 the State Board of Education, my name is
10:24 3 Tom Denmark, and I represent both the Florida
10:24 4 Association of Science Teachers, and the Florida
10:24 5 Council of Teachers in Mathematics.
10:24 6 These organizations have asked me to convey
10:24 7 to you their support for the use of alternatives
10:24 8 to the CLAST. They also asked me to convey
10:24 9 their assessment that the proposed rule provides
10:24 10 reasonable alternatives to the CLAST.
10:24 11 They look at the criteria for certification
10:25 12 as very much similar to the graduation
10:25 13 requirements for college. You have a general
10:25 14 studies component, which everybody is expected
10:25 15 to meet, and you have the major requirements.
10:25 16 The certification criteria are similarly
10:25 17 divided. You have a generic skills part that is
10:25 18 expected of all teachers to meet, and then you
10:25 19 have the criteria that is related to a
10:25 20 particular teaching field.
10:25 21 It is their position that all applicants
10:25 22 for a teaching certificate in Florida should
10:25 23 meet, as a minimum, the criteria for graduation
10:25 24 from college as currently in State Board of
10:25 25 Education rules.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:25 1 We believe that the proposed amendment
10:25 2 provides sufficient flexibility to meet the
10:25 3 needs of individual teachers; and at the same
10:26 4 time, maintains high teaching standards.
10:26 5 Thank you.
10:26 6 MR. BEDFORD: I believe that is the last
10:26 7 presenter. The others have declined.
10:26 8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, just a
10:26 9 comment.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
10:26 11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And I will try to be
10:26 12 brief, because I know we talked about this at
10:26 13 the last meeting. But I think as
10:26 14 Commissioner Nelson mentioned, it is important
10:26 15 that we reset the stage.
10:26 16 Just a couple of thoughts: One, that we're
10:26 17 talking about a required alternative through
10:26 18 legislation that has been created for those who
10:26 19 have been unable to pass one subset of the CLAST
10:26 20 test on multiple administrations.
10:26 21 We did accept much of the recommendation of
10:26 22 the Standards Commission, which is included in
10:26 23 our proposed rule; the creation for the
10:26 24 administration of the Praxis test, which is an
10:26 25 alternative test to the CLAST; as well as the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:26 1 parts of the rule that are being discussed
10:26 2 today, which is the use of college level
10:26 3 course work with a grade of a B, and that
10:27 4 course work having been taken in the last
10:27 5 five years, the recency issue, to also be
10:27 6 another way to demonstrate proficiency as an
10:27 7 alternative to the CLAST.
10:27 8 In the thousands and thousands of
10:27 9 administrations of the CLAST since 1984,
10:27 10 I believe, when it was first administered in
10:27 11 this state, to demonstrate basic skills in
10:27 12 reading and writing and mathematics, we're in
10:27 13 actuality talking about a handful of persons who
10:27 14 would avail themself of this alternative.
10:27 15 And as pointed out at the last meeting, and
10:27 16 it is absolutely correct, another part of the
10:27 17 rule is the fact that along with the
10:27 18 course work, all teachers, including the
10:27 19 teachers who would fall into this category, must
10:27 20 demonstrate generic teaching competencies in the
10:27 21 area of pedagogy, whether they pass the CLAST,
22 or whether they use the alternative method to
10:27 23 CLAST -- to pass CLAST.
10:27 24 So regardless of the avenue that someone
10:28 25 uses to ultimately seek initial licensure in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:28 1 state of Florida as a professional educator,
10:28 2 beyond that step, which is passing the CLAST,
10:28 3 which a significant number of states require
10:28 4 some sort of a demonstration of minimal skills
10:28 5 competency in the areas of reading, writing, and
10:28 6 math, all professional educators seeking that
10:28 7 initial licensure must also go through a
10:28 8 verification of teaching skills.
10:28 9 So I think there may have been some
10:28 10 confusion in the past that this is the hurdle to
10:28 11 be jumped by professional educators, when,
10:28 12 indeed, this is one of several that must be --
10:28 13 must be fulfilled in order to seek and gain
10:28 14 initial certification as a professional educator
10:28 15 in the state of Florida.
10:28 16 We'd be glad to take any questions that the
10:28 17 members of the State Board would have, Governor.
10:28 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question.
10:28 19 TREASURER NELSON: I'd like the person from
10:28 20 the Education Standards Commission who was
10:28 21 listed here to speak, to come up and to answer
10:28 22 the question for me.
10:28 23 Apparently on the question of the recency
10:29 24 requirement and also the grade requirement,
10:29 25 there was a difference between the Department of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:29 1 Education, and the Education Standards
10:29 2 Commission. And I'd like to know about those
10:29 3 differences.
10:29 4 MR. BEDFORD: Ms. Charlotte Minnick Boroto.
10:29 5 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: Good morning,
10:29 6 Governor, and members of the Cabinet.
10:29 7 Yes, there was a difference.
10:29 8 The Standards Commission did not recommend
10:29 9 the recency --
10:29 10 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
11 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: -- requirement.
10:29 12 One of the reasons for that was that they
10:29 13 would, indeed, have to demonstrate those
10:29 14 competencies to a team that would consist of the
10:29 15 principal, a peer teacher, and a person from the
10:29 16 district level before that district would send
10:29 17 in that they were eligible for their
10:29 18 certificate.
10:29 19 TREASURER NELSON: And how about the
10:29 20 grade?
10:29 21 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: The grade. The grade
10:29 22 was determined to be a C in each course that
10:29 23 would be required, number one, because that was
10:29 24 consistent with the Gordon requirement; and
10:30 25 secondly, because they would have to demonstrate
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:30 1 this in addition to getting the grade.
10:30 2 TREASURER NELSON: And how was that
10:30 3 different from the Department of Education
10:30 4 position?
10:30 5 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: The current rule in
10:30 6 front of you has a recency requirement, and that
10:30 7 is that the courses would be taken within the
10:30 8 last five years, and it requires a B.
10:30 9 TREASURER NELSON: Okay. Thank you.
10:30 10 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: In the course work.
10:30 11 TREASURER NELSON: Thanks, Governor.
10:30 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Any other questions?
10:30 13 MR. BEDFORD: Thank you, Charlotte.
10:30 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
10:30 15 MR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
10:30 16 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor, I'd move
10:30 17 approval of the rule as forward.
10:30 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Been moved and --
10:30 19 TREASURER NELSON: And I have an amendment.
10:30 20 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
10:30 21 Is there a second first?
10:30 22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I'll second it.
10:30 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
10:30 24 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I move that we
10:30 25 amend this rule to require a C grade in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:30 1 college course work, and eliminate the 60-month
10:30 2 recency requirement, which is consistent, as the
10:31 3 lady stated, with the report of the Education
10:31 4 Standards Commission recommendations.
10:31 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. You've heard
10:31 6 the amendment. Is there discussion?
10:31 7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I'd like to at
10:31 8 least comment. I think on principle, I
10:31 9 certainly support what the Commissioner of
10:31 10 Education is trying to do, and that is to raise
10:31 11 the standard.
10:31 12 I have a little bit of a problem though
10:31 13 with the idea that there is no flexibility left
10:31 14 in the hands of the leadership that is involved
10:31 15 with a particular teacher.
10:31 16 So I -- I cannot support the idea of being
10:31 17 a C. I can support the idea of being a B, I can
10:31 18 support the recency.
10:31 19 But I'd like to see some flexibility
10:31 20 built in so that the leadership can, in fact --
10:31 21 that know the teacher, can make an assessment,
10:31 22 and could accept that teacher with perhaps a C
10:32 23 passing grade based on their personal assessment
10:32 24 of their ability in the classroom.
10:32 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: I --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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February 13, 1996
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10:32 1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So I'm trying to not
10:32 2 bypass what the Commissioner has proposed. But
10:32 3 I think it's important that before we go
10:32 4 directly --
10:32 5 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
10:32 6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- to a C, that we
10:32 7 at least acknowledge that there may be something
10:32 8 in between going to a C and having a B as a
10:32 9 standard.
10:32 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, refresh my memory.
10:32 11 I thought the -- the standards -- the Commission
10:32 12 had also a third sort of way that if you went
10:32 13 before a certain peer group. Was that an
10:32 14 alternative for the six months, or was that an
10:32 15 alternative grade?
10:32 16 There was a piece in there that seems like
10:32 17 it would --
10:32 18 MR. BEDFORD: Yeah. We're bringing
10:32 19 Charlotte back up to --
10:32 20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: As -- as is part of
10:32 21 the rule before you today, Governor, you're
10:32 22 right. One of the -- as a part of the
10:32 23 alternative, it is a peer review process that is
10:33 24 included, but it also includes taking and
10:33 25 passing courses as a part of that total
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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February 13, 1996
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10:33 1 package.
10:33 2 So not only if someone fails the CLAST
10:33 3 would they have the alternative to take a
10:33 4 different test, they have the alternative of
10:33 5 using college credit combined with a peer review
10:33 6 process at the local district level.
10:33 7 And let me -- let me point out to you, too,
10:33 8 because I think there's some -- there's some
10:33 9 miscommunication on this issue. I'm not
10:33 10 suggesting that we make the standard more
10:33 11 difficult for those who opt for this particular
10:33 12 alternative.
10:33 13 As I pointed out at the last meeting, this
10:33 14 is my definition of an alternative which is
10:33 15 equal to that of the CLAST.
10:33 16 So I -- I think the fact that some people
10:33 17 might believe that we're trying to make it more
10:33 18 difficult by using this alternative, we're just
10:33 19 simply suggesting that the B in the course work,
10:33 20 and the recency of the last five years, in my
10:33 21 opinion, would be an equal-to alternative to the
10:33 22 CLAST, not more difficult.
10:34 23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But if I understood
10:34 24 you, Commissioner, that the peer group review
10:34 25 does not have the option of saying, well, you
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:34 1 have a C, and, therefore, will qualify.
10:34 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That is correct.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You don't have --
10:34 4 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That is -- that's a
10:34 5 part of the --
10:34 6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's right.
7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- peer review --
10:34 8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- it's B --
10:34 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and --
10:34 10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and a
10:34 11 peer group --
10:34 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: And, not or.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- which you --
10:34 14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
10:34 15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I guess I just come
10:34 16 from a different school where you don't
10:34 17 necessarily have everything be a cookie cutter
10:34 18 approach, that you need to give leadership the
10:34 19 opportunity to have some flexibility.
10:34 20 And that's why I don't support the C as
10:34 21 being the answer, I support the B as being the
10:34 22 appropriate goal. But I think there ought to be
10:34 23 some flexibility in the leadership.
10:34 24 And that -- I just wanted to make that
10:34 25 comment before we --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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10:34 1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
10:34 2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- worked on this --
10:34 3 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: One of the issues
10:34 4 that we wrestled with in terms of the peer
10:34 5 review without the grades is the fact that you
10:34 6 would ultimately have a scenario where people at
10:34 7 the local level were certifying the teacher for
10:35 8 statewide purposes at the local level.
10:35 9 In other words, if we use an alternative,
10:35 10 which is simply a peer review, and a person is
10:35 11 allowed to use the peer review in lieu of
10:35 12 passing tests or in lieu of demonstrating
10:35 13 competency of the CLAST or its alternative
10:35 14 through graduate cour-- or college level
10:35 15 courses, you, in essence, see a system set up
10:35 16 whereby a local school system could ultimately
10:35 17 issue licensure for a person who could then take
10:35 18 that teaching certificate --
10:35 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay.
10:35 20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and move from --
10:35 21 GOVERNOR CHILES: That's --
10:35 22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- district to
10:35 23 district.
10:35 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- that's saying that
10:35 25 the -- and I guess that was correct, that there
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
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10:35 1 was an alternative method of the peer review
10:35 2 that could have disregarded B or C, and
10:35 3 disregarded residency, and still -- is that
10:35 4 right?
10:35 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir. But that
10:35 6 was never a recommendation from my office or
10:35 7 the -- or the --
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I'm --
10:35 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- Standards
10:35 10 Commission.
10:35 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- I'm trying to get it
10:35 12 clear.
10:35 13 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: That was not a
10:35 14 recommendation from the --
15 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
10:35 16 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: -- Standards
10:35 17 Commission.
10:35 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- are you saying that
10:36 19 you object to having a -- you get a C. Or you
10:36 20 have not done your work in the last X number of
10:36 21 years.
10:36 22 Do you object to a peer review being able
10:36 23 to say, well, even if you got a C, we still
10:36 24 think you're competent to test?
10:36 25 That's not a statewide certification.
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February 13, 1996
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10:36 1 They've had to do the C, they've had to take the
10:36 2 test. But there is this stopgap that the
10:36 3 Commissioner's talking about that you would
10:36 4 allow some -- you know, somebody look at, is
10:36 5 this a daggum good teacher, are they doing good
10:36 6 work? You know, whether they test out or
10:36 7 anything else, what is the fruit of their work.
10:36 8 I think a lot of us want to see that,
10:36 9 because I think a lot of us have had teachers
10:36 10 that, you know, if you looked at their formal
10:36 11 scores or anything else, didn't score so high,
10:36 12 but they had a way with kids, they motivated
10:36 13 kids, and they taught kids. And, you know,
10:36 14 I think we're all for that.
10:36 15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Well, I understand.
10:36 16 And as I say, incorporated in this rule is an
10:37 17 and situation, college credit and peer review.
10:37 18 We've not put forward --
10:37 19 GOVERNOR CHILES: But --
10:37 20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- an or situation,
10:37 21 which is just a peer review.
10:37 22 In that event, in my opinion, with all due
10:37 23 respect, you might as well eliminate the
10:37 24 standard. There's no sense in having --
10:37 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: But that's -- my question
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10:37 1 is: Will you --
10:37 2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
10:37 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- object to have -- if
10:37 4 you get a C rather than a B, there could be a
10:37 5 peer review to decide that you're still a good
10:37 6 teacher.
10:37 7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's included in
10:37 8 the rules. But not as a stand-alone part of the
10:37 9 rule. That's incorporated with the college
10:37 10 course work and the grade B.
10:37 11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, let me --
10:37 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: But with a B.
10:37 13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Right.
10:37 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: You've got to have a B.
10:37 15 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
10:37 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: You're not allowing that
10:37 17 to be done with a C.
10:37 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's correct.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
10:37 20 Or allowing that to be done with a short --
10:37 21 with a residency requirement. It might go
10:37 22 two months over, or something else.
10:37 23 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
10:37 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well --
10:37 25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, if I
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10:37 1 could, there's a --
10:37 2 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
10:37 3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- I wanted to -- I
10:37 4 could see -- let me make this suggestion,
10:37 5 that -- because I kind of -- I agree with --
10:38 6 I think I agree with the -- we need more of a --
10:38 7 some subjective evaluation here that would be a
10:38 8 force, but yet you might need a statewide
10:38 9 standard for even that subjectivity, would be
10:38 10 for the -- if the -- if the applicant -- the
10:38 11 teacher did not make the B, but had the C, but
10:38 12 also had a strong peer review recommendation,
10:38 13 that the Commissioner then could waive the B
10:38 14 based on his evaluation of the -- of the peer
10:38 15 evaluation itself.
10:38 16 So you'd then have the ability to have some
10:38 17 subjectivity, but it'd be on a -- on a statewide
10:38 18 basis.
19 Just to make --
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Would the
10:38 21 Commissioner make the --
10:38 22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Have the
10:38 23 Commissioner -- give the Commissioner the
10:38 24 authority to waive the B, if all the other
10:38 25 evidence is compelling that it's a good teacher,
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10:38 1 even though they only made a C.
10:38 2 That's a thought.
10:38 3 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
10:38 4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
10:38 5 TREASURER NELSON: -- may I just say --
10:39 6 you know, I may as well just give you the
10:39 7 reasoning. I mean, you never want to be cast in
10:39 8 the posture where you're saying you want lower
10:39 9 standards.
10:39 10 But what are we talking about? You know, I
10:39 11 remember when I was at Melbourne High School,
10:39 12 they offered -- because the principal had to
10:39 13 bend all the rules in order to get a qualified
10:39 14 teacher that was a medical missionary from
10:39 15 China, and they taught Chinese, one of the first
10:39 16 times a Florida high school had ever taught --
10:39 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Did he make a B?
10:39 18 TREASURER NELSON: That's -- that's the
10:39 19 point.
10:39 20 If that teacher had had -- he was a medical
10:39 21 missionary. If he had had to pass a CLAST test
10:39 22 and, say, he didn't have a gift in math, and he
10:39 23 would have had to have gotten a B, and that
10:39 24 required training within 60 months, I mean, we
10:39 25 can just tie ourselves up in minutia here.
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10:39 1 We've got to have some common sense in this
10:39 2 thing.
10:40 3 Take, for example, teachers transferring
10:40 4 into this state. We bring a lot of teachers in
10:40 5 here that have Master's degrees, but they hadn't
10:40 6 taken a math course in the last 10 to 20 years.
10:40 7 Well, you know, what -- what are -- what
10:40 8 are we going to put them in, in a kind of
10:40 9 straightjacket?
10:40 10 So that's where I'm trying to get some
10:40 11 flexibility in the rule.
10:40 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, what I'm really
10:40 13 worried about is the retired generals and
10:40 14 admirals that we have that are going to want to
10:40 15 teach.
10:40 16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Never could do math.
10:40 17 But I -- I like the sense of what
10:40 18 Commissioner Crawford is proposing in that it
10:40 19 does provide some flexibility.
10:40 20 I'm a little hesitant about elevating the
10:40 21 ultimate decision to the highest level. I think
10:40 22 we ought to be pushing decision making down, not
10:40 23 elevating. But the sense of what
10:40 24 Commissioner Crawford has suggested I think is
10:40 25 kind of on target.
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10:41 1 And if -- if he could put that in the form
10:41 2 of a motion, I think we ought to address that.
10:41 3 We haven't I guess handled, Governor, the
10:41 4 proposal by Commissioner Nelson. But
10:41 5 Commissioner Crawford's suggestion I think is a
10:41 6 good one.
10:41 7 TREASURER NELSON: Well, do you want me to
10:41 8 amend my amendment?
10:41 9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could you do that,
10:41 10 sir?
10:41 11 TREASURER NELSON: And, Bob, would you
10:41 12 state the essence -- you want some kind of peer
10:41 13 review that would look if a B is not achieved,
10:41 14 that there would be enough waiver.
10:41 15 And would you also have that peer review
10:41 16 look at the recency requirement as well?
10:41 17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think both. And
10:41 18 then make a recommendation to the Commissioner,
10:41 19 at which point the Commissioner then, on his
10:41 20 own, an even more far-reaching evaluation, could
10:41 21 evaluate the entire scope of the teacher's
10:41 22 performance and abilities.
10:41 23 And then based upon his -- his own
10:41 24 evaluation -- his or her own evaluation, could
10:41 25 then waive those two components if it was being
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10:42 1 warranted under the circumstances.
10:42 2 That way you have -- you don't have the
10:42 3 problem of just all of a sudden we've lost a
10:42 4 great teacher because they couldn't get that B,
10:42 5 or you have the recency problem that it's just
10:42 6 a -- and yet -- yet we do keep it a statewide
10:42 7 standard so that it's fair to all different --
10:42 8 all districts.
10:42 9 So --
10:42 10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Okay. I think the intent
10:42 11 of the amendment would be that the rule would
10:42 12 say that you need a B, you need the six months,
10:42 13 but would include as part of the peer review
10:42 14 that you could seek to take that to the peer
10:42 15 review group. And if they recommended that they
10:42 16 still be certified, that would have to be
10:42 17 approved by the Commissioner.
10:42 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Governor --
10:42 19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's right.
20 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- could I --
10:42 21 in fact, I'm not trying to help you all with
10:42 22 your amendment, because I disagree with it.
10:42 23 But I -- at the risk of making this more
10:42 24 complicated than it really is, let me offer a
10:42 25 potential solution to you.
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10:43 1 The rule that we've recommended today, as
10:43 2 you've suggested, Governor, has an alternative
10:43 3 to the CLAST that exists within it that would
10:43 4 require college credit plus a peer review. That
10:43 5 would then be forwarded to the
10:43 6 State of Florida.
10:43 7 And ultimately I have to, as Commissioner
10:43 8 of Education, on these cases determine whether
10:43 9 my signature goes on that teaching certificate
10:43 10 or not, based on the recommendation of the
10:43 11 people at the local level.
10:43 12 It would appear to me that just by
10:43 13 change -- or amending the rule that we've
10:43 14 brought to you today, you could accomplish what
10:43 15 it is I think you're trying to do with some very
10:43 16 simple wordsmithing of the rule that we brought
10:43 17 to you today.
10:43 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think --
10:43 19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
10:43 20 MR. BEDFORD: That's what we're doing.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- what we're told --
22 that's what -- we were --
23 MR. BEDFORD: That's what we're --
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- talking about amending
10:43 25 the rule brought to us today by those simple
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10:43 1 words.
10:43 2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor, I think all
10:43 3 you have to do is change an and to an or.
10:43 4 I think there's one --
10:43 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: Because the Commissioner
10:44 6 already has the chance to --
10:44 7 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: In other words --
10:44 8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct.
10:44 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- make it college
10:44 10 course work or peer review --
10:44 11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct.
10:44 12 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- or to the
10:44 13 Commissioner of Education.
10:44 14 Now, that's assuming, Secretary, that the
10:44 15 members agree that the alternative should still
10:44 16 be a B instead of a C --
10:44 17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Correct.
10:44 18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: -- and five years
10:44 19 recency.
10:44 20 But based on what you're about to do,
10:44 21 that's of little or no consequence, in my
10:44 22 opinion, at this point.
10:44 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, but aren't we
10:44 24 talking about the ultimate decision by you would
10:44 25 be based on whether it was a B or a C, more than
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10:44 1 the residency or not.
10:44 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That if you made --
10:44 3 or they could use either -- either the B and the
10:44 4 five-year recency; unless you want to amend that
10:44 5 and make it a C, and no recency; or the peer
10:44 6 review.
10:44 7 MR. BEDFORD: My -- my problem --
10:44 8 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's at your
10:44 9 discretion.
10:44 10 MR. BEDFORD: -- that I wanted to make sure
10:44 11 we understand is if you insert the word or, then
10:44 12 you no longer need this peer review.
10:45 13 And if you insert the word or, you would be
10:45 14 bypassing -- I think one of the parts I heard
10:45 15 from just about everybody was you wanted the
10:45 16 peer review to be the one that was making the
10:45 17 recommendation --
10:45 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: You know, it would seem
10:45 19 to me that if the votes are here, that somebody
10:45 20 could sit down and draft this thing to say that
10:45 21 if you had a -- you know, if it was either --
10:45 22 either of the C or the residency -- peer review
10:45 23 wanted to recommend it to the Commissioner, the
10:45 24 Commissioner could then sign it if he wanted
10:45 25 to.
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10:45 1 Or you've got --
10:45 2 MR. BEDFORD: I hesitate to ever try to do
10:45 3 this publicly, because you can only lose.
10:45 4 But it seems to me that what I'm hearing
10:45 5 some of you say is that there would be a (C)
10:45 6 section; the (A) section being what it is, the
10:45 7 peer review; (B) section being the grade of B;
10:45 8 and a (C) section in absence of the grade of B,
10:45 9 or the recency of credit requirement, the peer
10:45 10 review would be allowed to recommend
10:45 11 certification to the --
10:45 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
10:45 13 MR. BEDFORD: -- to the Commissioner.
10:45 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: You've got it.
10:45 15 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I'd like to
10:46 16 get Charlotte's comment on this proposed
10:46 17 so-called compromise.
10:46 18 You're the one who came forward with the
10:46 19 recommendations.
10:46 20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Well, I think that goes
10:46 21 back to --
10:46 22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It goes back to
10:46 23 that direction.
10:46 24 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: I believe it does go
10:46 25 in the direction. The Commission did include a
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10:46 1 peer review, along with a grade, and then they
10:46 2 would -- they did not have the recency credit.
10:46 3 The peer review would be looking at the
10:46 4 demonstration of those competencies that they
10:46 5 did not pass in the CLAST test. So they would
10:46 6 be looking at the demonstration of the math, or
10:46 7 the communication, whether it be writing or
10:46 8 reading.
10:46 9 So I believe a peer review would be
10:46 10 essential to looking at the application of these
10:46 11 skills in the real world setting.
10:46 12 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a question,
10:46 13 Governor?
10:47 14 Under the -- under the Department of
10:47 15 Education's proposed rule, if -- if a history
10:47 16 teacher that has come into the state with a
10:47 17 Master's degree that has a tremendous record as
10:47 18 a classroom teacher, fails, for example, the
10:47 19 math part of the CLAST test, under the
10:47 20 Department of Education's proposed rule, they
10:47 21 have to have a B in that course in order to be
10:47 22 certified, and that course has to have been done
10:47 23 within the last 60 months; is that correct?
10:47 24 MS. MINNICK BOROTO: That is correct. For
10:47 25 that teacher though, there is another option.
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10:47 1 There is something called the Fast Track program
10:47 2 in the state of Florida.
10:47 3 And if that teacher is certified in the
10:47 4 same area in Florida that they come from Texas,
10:47 5 Florida has the same certification area, and
10:47 6 they have demonstrated satisfactory performance
10:48 7 in their teaching in that state within the last
10:48 8 five years, then there -- the superintendent
10:48 9 from San Antonio, Texas, can sign off, and, say,
10:48 10 yes, they've demonstrated this performance, and
10:48 11 they then do not take any of the tests that are
10:48 12 required of the state of Florida.
10:48 13 So that person might fit into a category
10:48 14 where they don't take it at all. There's a
10:48 15 waiver.
10:48 16 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, we're going to
10:48 17 get ourselves so tied up in so many rigmarole,
10:48 18 putting ourselves in a straightjacket, what does
10:48 19 the math test have to do with a great history
10:48 20 teacher?
10:48 21 Let's move forward with some common sense.
10:48 22 I move my amendment to the rule.
10:48 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Now --
10:48 24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Which one?
10:48 25 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- is that your
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10:48 1 amendment, or is that --
10:48 2 TREASURER NELSON: My original amendment.
10:48 3 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. So many as
10:48 4 favor the motion, signify by saying aye.
10:48 5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Could we have some
10:48 6 more discussion on that before --
10:48 7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Sure. Sure.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is there a second?
9 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Is there a second to
10:48 10 his amendment?
10:48 11 MR. BEDFORD: I need to --
10:48 12 What is the original amendment?
10:48 13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Is there a second to
10:49 14 his amendment?
10:49 15 MR. BEDFORD: No.
10:49 16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: The original
10:49 17 amendment?
10:49 18 GOVERNOR CHILES: There was not a second on
10:49 19 the original amendment?
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No. There
10:49 21 was no second on --
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: I mean, I --
10:49 23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- Brogan's
24 amendment.
10:49 25 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Just for a --
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1 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: There was no second
10:49 2 on my original amendment.
10:49 3 Yes, there was. Secretary of State
10:49 4 seconded --
10:49 5 GOVERNOR CHILES: There was a second.
10:49 6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: To the original motion.
10:49 7 MR. BEDFORD: To the original motion. But
10:49 8 not to the amendment.
10:49 9 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: My -- my motion.
10:49 10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: To permit -- yes.
10:49 11 So what are we discussing at this moment,
10:49 12 that's my question.
10:49 13 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: That's what I --
10:49 14 that's what I'm about to try to do.
10:49 15 I think it's important that y'all are
10:49 16 abundantly clear on what it is that you're about
10:49 17 to do. Because there have been some
10:49 18 alternatives --
10:49 19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: But what are --
10:49 20 Governor, what are we --
10:49 21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Which happens when
10:49 22 you create alternatives.
10:49 23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Which amendment?
10:49 24 GOVERNOR CHILES: We are discussing right
10:49 25 now whether Commissioner Nelson's amendment has
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10:49 1 a second.
10:49 2 SECRETARY MORTHAM: That's what I --
10:49 3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But I'd like to
10:49 4 offer an amendment to the amendment. That would
10:49 5 be what the Governor described.
10:49 6 GOVERNOR CHILES: You want to second it
10:49 7 first so it would be in order for the
10:50 8 amendment?
10:50 9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay. We'll get a
10:50 10 second.
10:50 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Now, it's in
10:50 12 order.
10:50 13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: All right. Well,
10:50 14 the amendment as was repeated to the amendment
10:50 15 with --
10:50 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: That would be a
10:50 17 substitute that you offer --
10:50 18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay. Well,
10:50 19 that -- substitute to the amendment.
10:50 20 And I think --
10:50 21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Does everybody
10:50 22 understand where we are at this point?
10:50 23 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Is there
10:50 24 discussion on the substitute?
10:50 25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Yes, sir.
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10:50 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
10:50 2 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Very quickly.
10:50 3 I just want everyone to understand that
10:50 4 while it appears as though the Department is
10:50 5 possibly being tougher than we ought to be,
10:50 6 I think we need to be clear on this.
10:50 7 And I agree with Commissioner Nelson, we
10:50 8 need some common sense on this issue.
10:50 9 What we're talking about is something that
10:50 10 the vast majority of states require, a test or
10:50 11 some demonstration of a skill level, in this
10:50 12 particular case, at a tenth grade high school
10:51 13 level in reading, writing, and mathematics.
10:51 14 A teacher comes to Florida, who begins to
10:51 15 teach, can start on a temporary teaching
10:51 16 certificate for a two-year period of time. And
10:51 17 during that two-year period of time, have the
10:51 18 ability to take a variety of approaches to how
10:51 19 they want to demonstrate that mastery of their
10:51 20 ability to read and write and calculate
10:51 21 mathematically at a tenth grade high school
10:51 22 level.
10:51 23 In my opinion, by creating -- just to set
10:51 24 aside an alternative that suggests that only a
10:51 25 peer review would be necessary after multiple
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10:51 1 failures of one test; multiple failures of
10:51 2 another; the inability to demonstrate competency
10:51 3 through using minimum college course work in an
10:51 4 area and demonstrate competency through a B, in
10:51 5 my opinion, what we are doing is providing a
10:51 6 difficult circumstance where people out there in
10:51 7 the local level who now have to look at someone
10:51 8 after a two-year period of time, and that person
10:51 9 having failed every other avenue, give that
10:51 10 person -- or request that that person be given
10:52 11 licensure, and still not able to demonstrate, in
10:52 12 my opinion, as did 70,000 other people since
10:52 13 that test was first administered in 1984, a
10:52 14 clear ability to read, write, and count to the
10:52 15 tenth grade high school level.
10:52 16 The reason that we stayed away from a set
10:52 17 aside alternative was because we believe that
10:52 18 there is ample opportunity during that two-year
10:52 19 period of time for someone to take and pass the
10:52 20 college courses, for someone to take a
10:52 21 remediation course if that determines that
10:52 22 they -- that would help the situation.
10:52 23 But, again, what -- what -- the reason that
10:52 24 I've brought to you what I've brought to you is
10:52 25 not in an attempt to be obstinate, and it is not
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10:52 1 an attempt to create a higher standard for a
10:52 2 very small number of individuals.
10:52 3 It's in an attempt to try to recognize that
10:52 4 70,000 people have complied with that
10:52 5 prerequisite to demonstrate that they can read
10:52 6 and write and calculate mathematically at a
10:53 7 tenth grade high school level.
10:53 8 And I simply believe, Commissioner Nelson,
10:53 9 that whether you're teaching history, whether
10:53 10 you're teaching social studies, whether you're
10:53 11 teaching art, that you ought to be able to read
12 and write and calculate mathematically if you
10:53 13 want to be a professional educator at at least
10:53 14 the minimum level that we expect of our
10:53 15 high school students.
10:53 16 And I think, as you heard me say at the
10:53 17 last meeting, one of our problems in education
10:53 18 is we are pigeonholing people to death. We are
10:53 19 creating people who are so specialized in only
10:53 20 one area, that we're not writing across the
10:53 21 curriculum, we are not reading across the
10:53 22 curriculum, and we are not calculating
23 mathematically across the curriculum.
10:53 24 And, in part, it's because I believe that
10:53 25 we only teach math in math class because that's
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10:53 1 what that person is required to do; teach
10:53 2 reading in reading class, because that's what
10:53 3 that person is supposed to do.
10:53 4 And I think we need to make certain that
10:53 5 all professional educators hold the same
10:53 6 proficiency level in reading, writing, and math
10:53 7 we would expect of a tenth grade high school
10:54 8 student, to see to it that they can offer that
9 kind of information.
10:54 10 So with that, I now understand the
10:54 11 amendment, and appreciate the clarification.
10:54 12 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
10:54 13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Governor --
10:54 14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
10:54 15 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- I'm not sure I know
10:54 16 what the amendment is. So if -- if --
10:54 17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Why don't you restate --
10:54 18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- Mr. Crawford would
10:54 19 state --
10:54 20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
10:54 21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: -- the substitute.
10:54 22 GOVERNOR CHILES: We'll ask -- if you could
10:54 23 restate.
10:54 24 MR. BEDFORD: I think what I paraphrased
10:54 25 for you, that there would be a subsection (C) on
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10:54 1 page 6, if you have the same that I do, that
10:54 2 there would be an (A) where the applicant would
10:54 3 have the peer review; there would be a (B) where
10:54 4 the applicant demonstrated with a B average; and
10:54 5 then a (C) where there would be in cases in
10:54 6 absence of the C grade -- excuse me -- absence
10:54 7 of the B grade or absence of the recency of
10:54 8 credit, a peer review could recommend to the
10:54 9 State Commissioner of Education that the person
10:54 10 be certified.
10:54 11 GOVERNOR CHILES: Still reside with --
10:54 12 MR. BEDFORD: Is that what --
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- the Commissioner of
10:54 14 Education.
10:54 15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: That's correct.
10:54 16 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. I think we
10:54 17 understand it now.
10:55 18 Let's call the role on the substitute
10:55 19 amendment.
10:55 20 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
21 Commissioner Brogan.
10:55 22 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No.
23 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
10:55 24 Commissioner Crawford.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
February 13, 1996
43
1 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
2 Commissioner Nelson.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Yes.
4 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
5 Comptroller Milligan.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
7 COURT REPORTER GILBERT:
8 General Butterworth.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
10 COURT REPORTER GILBERT: Secretary Mortham.
11 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Yes.
12 COURT REPORTER GILBERT: Governor Chiles.
13 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
14 All right. By your votes, you've adopted
15 the substitute amendment.
16 Now, let's vote on the rule as amended.
17 So many as favor that, signify by saying
18 aye.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Aye.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
21 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Aye.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Opposed, no.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: No.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: The rule amendment is
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1 adopted.
2 MR. BEDFORD: Item 3, rule 6A, dash,
3 6.0311, Amendment, Eligible Special Programs for
4 Exceptional Students.
5 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval,
6 Governor.
7 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. BEDFORD: Item 4, appointment to
11 Hillsborough Community College Board of
12 Trustees.
13 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
14 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
15 Second.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 MR. BEDFORD: Thank you.
19 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
20 concluded.)
21 *
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
February 13, 1996
45
10:55 1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Administrative
2 Commission -- Administration Commission.
10:56 3 MS. SITTIG: Item 1, recommend approval of
10:56 4 the minutes of the meeting held January 23rd,
5 1996.
6 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
7 room.)
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
9 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and --
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 GOVERNOR CHILES: -- seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MS. SITTIG: Recommend the transfer of
14 general revenue appropriations in the
15 Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
17 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MS. SITTIG: Item 3 has been deferred until
21 the next meeting.
22 Item 4, recommend a transfer of general
23 revenue appropriations in the Department of
24 Health and Rehabilitative Services.
25 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Move approval.
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February 13, 1996
46
1 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 MS. SITTIG: Item 5, recommend the transfer
6 of general revenue appropriations in the
7 Department of Juvenile Justice.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, that's approved.
12 (The Administration Commission Agenda was
13 concluded.)
14 *
15
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY COMMISSION
February 13, 1996
47
1 MS. SITTIG: We're now on the FLAWAC.
2 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Florida Land
3 and Water Adjudicatory Commission.
4 MS. SITTIG: There's one item. Request the
5 authorization to enter the amended draft final
6 order.
7 (Secretary Mortham exited the room.)
8 MS. SITTIG: We have a few individuals that
9 would like to speak.
10 The first one is Edward de la Parte
11 representing Pinellas County.
12 MR. de la PARTE: Governor, members of the
13 Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission.
14 I appreciate the opportunity to appear before
15 you on this matter.
16 My name is Edward de la Parte, and I
17 represent the appellant, Pinellas County,
18 Florida.
19 Simply put, Governor, and members --
20 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
21 room.)
22 MR. de la PARTE: -- of the Commission, we
23 urge you to adopt the proposed final order
24 developed by your staff.
25 I have here today with us the Chairman of
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February 13, 1996
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1 the Pinellas County Commission, Sallie Parks,
2 who, with your indulgence, would like to address
3 a few remarks to the Commission.
4 GOVERNOR CHILES: Very well. Ms. Parks.
5 MS. PARKS: Good morning.
6 Good morning, Governor Chiles, members of
7 the Florida Cabinet.
8 I'm Sallie Parks, Chair of the
9 Pinellas County Commission. And I'm happy to be
10 here to speak about the most important issue in
11 Pinellas County and the entire Tampa Bay area of
12 water.
13 Within the 16-county Southwest Florida
14 Water Management District, there is an average
15 of 53 inches of rainfall each year. The total
16 water use for public supply in all of the
17 District is less than 1 inch.
18 As you know, Florida receives a great
19 amount of rainfall, second only to Louisiana,
20 among the states. This evidence, once again,
21 illustrates that Florida in many ways is water
22 rich.
23 With that said, Pinellas County takes pride
24 in its citizens' conservation of water.
25 (Secretary Mortham entered the room.)
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1 MS. PARKS: As County government, we
2 deserve credit for this careful conservation,
3 our most significant commodity, providing high
4 quality water to the residents of the most
5 densely populated county in the state, with
6 nearly 1 million residents.
7 We are proud of our citizens' efforts to
8 conserve and only use 116 gallons per day, as
9 compared to the more typical 150 gallons per day
10 average in Florida.
11 We have reached this level in
12 Pinellas County by carefully utilizing our water
13 resource allocation.
14 Our conservation measures include a major
15 indoor plumbing retrofit program in which almost
16 200,000 water saving kits were distributed to
17 homes, enforcement of lawn --
18 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
19 MS. PARKS: -- irrigation restrictions,
20 promotion of drought tolerant landscaping
21 principles, and numerous public educational
22 programs and proactive conservation programs.
23 Pinellas County also adopted a rate
24 schedule which encourages water conservation by
25 increasing the cost of water as consumptive
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1 needs exceeds an average amount.
2 We also have been pioneers in wastewater
3 recycling over and beyond the efforts of the
4 cities in our county. And we've committed
5 150 million dollars to that.
6 The City of St. Petersburg and
7 Pinellas County citizens receive all its potable
8 water from well fields in the northern Tampa Bay
9 area, in Pinellas County, Pasco, and
10 Hillsborough.
11 Overall, our conservation programs and
12 wastewater reuse programs have achieved the
13 remarkable lowest per capita use in this state.
14 Pinellas County's Comprehensive Plan adopts
15 a level of service standard, and a concurrency
16 which ties developments to the committed
17 capacity of its well fields so that growth will
18 never exceed its permitted use.
19 In a county that is essentially built out,
20 we will only require an additional 10 to
21 15 million gallons per day to meet the needs of
22 our residents by the year 2015.
23 The Southwest Florida Water Management
24 District has not established a minimum level in
25 the northern Tampa Bay area where
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1 Pinellas County's well fields are located.
2 Experts could argue with reasonable data as
3 to how much water can be withdrawn from the
4 region without significant harm to the water
5 resource.
6 Pinellas County is grateful and
7 appreciative that by proposing the final order,
8 the Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
9 Commission recognizes and acknowledges the
10 reasonable requests made by Pinellas County.
11 We also commend SWFWMD for their
12 willingness to submit to a schedule with
13 specific due dates for establishing minimum
14 levels and flows to the Department of
15 Environmental Protection for approval as part of
16 its district water management plan.
17 While Pinellas County supports water
18 conservation as integral to all water supply
19 plans, and believes that research and
20 development in the areas of alternative supplies
21 offer tremendous promise and opportunity for the
22 future, water is still a regional resource.
23 Artificial or politically defined
24 boundaries should not limit the options
25 available for consideration in planning future
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1 water supplies.
2 Therefore, we believe that although the
3 proposed final order does not directly specify
4 what type of minimum levels SWFWMD will
5 establish, Pinellas County advocates that only
6 regional minimum levels should be approved by
7 the Department of Environmental Protection.
8 Although the proposed final order does not
9 direct -- directly specify what procedures
10 SWFWMD will follow in establishing minimum
11 levels, Pinellas County hopes that the procedure
12 approved by the DEP will call for an independent
13 expert panel to resolve scientific disputes
14 encountered in establishing such minimum levels.
15 If SWFWMD can -- commits to establishing
16 independent scientific peer review for regional
17 minimum level in the northern Tampa Bay area
18 prior to cutting back the permitted capacity of
19 any of Pinellas County's well fields, you can be
20 confident that Pinellas County will dismiss all
21 of its pending permitted regulated litigation.
22 We in Pinellas County do not enjoy
23 participating in litigation which impacts not
24 only our own taxpayers, but all of us who also
25 pay taxes to SWFWMD.
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1 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
2 MS. PARKS: We are committed to a
3 scientific peer review process.
4 Again, let me repeat: If SWFWMD will
5 establish an independent peer review for
6 regional minimum levels in the northern
7 Tampa Bay area before reducing our permitted
8 capacity, we will dismiss all of its permitted
9 related litigation.
10 I will be happy to entertain any questions
11 for me, or for Mr. de la Parte.
12 If not, thank you very much for the
13 opportunity to appear before you.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you very much.
15 MS. PARKS: Thank you, Governor.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Is there a motion?
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
18 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move.
19 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved.
20 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
21 GOVERNOR CHILES: Seconded.
22 Without objection, it is adopted.
23 MS. SITTIG: That's it.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right.
25
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1 (The Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory
2 Commission Agenda was concluded.)
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February 13, 1996
55
1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Trustees of the Internal
2 Improvement.
3 MS. WETHERELL: Good morning.
4 Item 1 are minutes.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, minutes are approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Item 2 is a quitclaim deed.
10 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
11 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MS. WETHERELL: Item 3 is a surplus land
15 sale.
16 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
17 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, that's passed.
20 MS. WETHERELL: Second substitute item 4 is
21 an option agreement for Lake Wales Ridge CARL
22 project.
23 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
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1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MS. WETHERELL: Item 5 is release of funds
3 for an undivided 50 percent interest in
4 Sebastian Creek CARL project.
5 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Move approval.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
7 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Substitute item 6, we're
10 recommending acceptance of the '96 CARL annual
11 report and approval of the '96 CARL annual
12 priority list.
13 We have Greg Brock here from the Department
14 if you wish to get into any specifics of the
15 program of this report and of the priority list.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Don't seem to be.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move
18 acceptance and approval.
19 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: May I ask a question?
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, ma'am.
24 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Could you tell me,
25 having finished your public hearings around the
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1 state on the policy issue of the eminent domain,
2 when you plan to come back to us with that?
3 MS. WETHERELL: Yes, Secretary Mortham.
4 We are looking at bringing this item
5 back -- this policy back in March --
6 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Okay.
7 MS. WETHERELL: -- for your approval.
8 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Thank you.
9 MS. WETHERELL: Uh-hum.
10 Item 7 is modification of a submerged land
11 lease.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Item 8, requesting deferral
17 till March 13th at the applicant's request.
18 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: Need a motion,
19 Governor?
20 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes.
21 COMMISSIONER BROGAN: So move.
22 SECRETARY MORTHAM: Second.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MS. WETHERELL: Item 9 is a submerged land
2 lease for a proposed public fishing pier.
3 We have a total of twelve speakers. And if
4 you would like to set a time limit,
5 Mr. Chairman.
6 GOVERNOR CHILES: I would. Love to.
7 MS. WETHERELL: We also have a number of
8 speakers on the next item. So --
9 Would you like to suggest a time?
10 GOVERNOR CHILES: I'd -- how many do we
11 have on each side?
12 MS. WETHERELL: Well, we have seven in
13 opposition, and five to speak in support --
14 GOVERNOR CHILES: All right. Why don't we
15 say we'll set 20 minutes to the side.
16 MS. WETHERELL: Twenty minutes to the
17 side?
18 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yeah.
19 MS. WETHERELL: All right. And I'll ask
20 somebody to keep time for me. And we will --
21 All right. If those will remember that if
22 they speak a long time, they will eliminate
23 somebody on -- in their position.
24 So I'll start first with Dr. Michael Salmon
25 or Salomon, to come forward first.
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1 And to save time, in this order,
2 Cecilia Wolf, and Dave Homcy after that.
3 MS. HOMCY: Hi. We're having a little
4 change in order here. I was originally going to
5 speak to you all first.
6 My name is Jennifer Homcy, and I am here to
7 speak in opposition to the Juno Beach Pier
8 because of sea turtle nesting concerns, and
9 other related problems that might be caused from
10 the construction of a fishing pier in this
11 sensitive area.
12 I grew up in Palm Beach County. I am a
13 native resident. And I grew up in the old -- on
14 the old Juno Beach Pier.
15 And in addition, I am a former employee of
16 the Palm Beach County DERM and the Marine Life
17 Center of Juno Beach, and have a great deal of
18 sea turtle experience, especially in that area.
19 I want to acknowledge the significance of
20 this nesting beach in this area. It is stated
21 in the Federal Recovery Plan for four different
22 species of turtles, that all measures should be
23 taken to ensure a higher rate of hatch success
24 on all federal and state owned lands in key
25 nesting beaches, such as Jupiter Island,
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1 Hutchinson Island, Juno Beach, and
2 Melbourne Beach, Florida.
3 Though those areas are a very small area,
4 it has great significance in that it has over
5 1,000 nests per mile. And the impact that a
6 fishing pier would cause to this area are a
7 degree of magnitude higher than if it were to be
8 placed anywhere further south than this.
9 There are many different issues, including
10 possibility of hatchling mortality, and marine
11 debris poses a significant problem in terms
12 of -- in terms of hook ingestion and
13 monofilament entanglement and snaggings.
14 A lot of these issues have been addressed
15 by the DEP, and special conditions were
16 recommended. But we feel that the recommended
17 conditions of DEP, though they will do a lot to
18 protect sea turtles if a pier were to go in,
19 that we cannot afford to take the risk of
20 putting in a structure like this when the
21 environmental damage can be incredible --
22 astronomical actually in that we -- we just --
23 this area is so important to the reproductive
24 success of three different species of turtles,
25 we just cannot afford to take the risk of the
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1 damages.
2 We can't afford to take the risk of the
3 possibility of the restrictions being lessened
4 and reduced in time. The County is to enforce
5 themselves on this issue.
6 Though I have confidence in the Department
7 of Environmental Resource Management in their
8 abilities to enforce letting situations, I do
9 not have confidence that this will be handled in
10 a responsible manner because of the role that
11 economics is going to play in this.
12 And last, but not least, I definitely
13 wanted to acknowledge the fact -- and this is a
14 letter -- and I'd like to submit to the Board --
15 from Blair Witherington, who is a lighting
16 expert from DEP Tequesta Field Office.
17 And he confirmed in this letter that that
18 beach is relatively dark, and that there are no
19 existing lighting problems and disorientation
20 problems, and it is one of the darkest stretches
21 of beaches in Palm Beach County.
22 And that this -- and I quote: This could
23 explain why the beach there is so popular with
24 the turtles.
25 So if I can submit that.
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1 GOVERNOR CHILES: Fine.
2 MS. HOMCY: And I just ask you all to vote
3 no on this lease. I -- I really feel strongly
4 about this, that the effects to marine turtles
5 are going to be irreversible, and once we go
6 back -- once we go and take that step, there's
7 no going back.
8 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you.
9 MS. WETHERELL: If the next two speakers I
10 called on will come forward, it will save time.
11 Oh, you're here. Excuse me.
12 Come on.
13 DR. SALMON: My name is
14 Dr. Michael Salmon. I'm a professor at Florida
15 Atlantic University. My specialty is animal
16 behavior, and I also study sea turtles, and have
17 been involved in sea turtle research for a
18 number of years.
19 I should also add that I'm an avid
20 fisherman.
21 I work extensively on problems and -- with
22 the City of Boca Raton, which have to do with
23 managing sea turtle populations at an urban
24 beach. And what we have been able to accomplish
25 there is to considerably improve the lot of --
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1 of these animals at an area where they come into
2 abrupt contact with -- with cities, with people,
3 and with populations in general.
4 In spite of all the improvements that we've
5 made, and there have been a considerable number
6 of them, the fact remains that once you set in
7 place a situation where you've developed a beach
8 that's used as a rookery for these animals, it's
9 impossible to ever regain the kind of pristine
10 situation that exists on a natural beach.
11 We've improved the situation at Boca Raton
12 to the point where now nesting densities and
13 survival of these animals is probably the
14 highest in the state for any urban beach area.
15 And so I have then certain very strong
16 feelings about the inevitability of -- and the
17 consequences of trying to improve the situation
18 once it's been tinkered with. You can't go
19 back.
20 The situation at Juno Beach is one where we
21 have a relatively pristine beach, which is one
22 of the four areas in -- on the east coast of
23 Florida where sea turtles nest in densities of
24 about 1,000 nests per mile.
25 What we need to do, of course, is come up
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1 with a balance which allows people who have
2 interests in fishing, and allows the turtles
3 that have interests in breeding, to coexist on
4 this beach.
5 It seems to me that from a rational
6 perspective, the interests of people who want to
7 fish has already been, to a large extent, taken
8 care of.
9 There's an expansion program which I
10 understand will probably be improved for
11 Jupiter Inlet, which will increase the size of
12 the platform; allow people to fish there, both
13 day and night; and, in general, see to the
14 wishes of those folks.
15 What we need now is to consider a balanced
16 approach which looks to the interest of sea
17 turtles, and looks to the interests of the local
18 residents in Juno Beach who are most interested
19 in preserving their -- the pristine nature of
20 that area.
21 Thank you.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can I ask --
23 GOVERNOR CHILES: Question. Yes.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Are you
25 saying, Doctor, that we should not put any more
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1 piers anywhere, or just in this particular
2 location?
3 DR. SALMON: I'm saying that we shouldn't
4 put any piers at this particular location.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What
6 location would you suggest near this particular
7 location, if any?
8 DR. SALMON: Well, I'm not -- I'm not
9 familiar enough with the immediate area around
10 Juno Beach.
11 In thinking about this problem though, it
12 seems to me an ideal location for a pier of this
13 type would be at Delray Beach where you have A1A
14 already commercially developed, a large number
15 of restaurants, you have so many lights shining
16 on the beach, the turtles don't nest there.
17 Where the fishability is probably as good as it
18 is anywhere else on the coast.
19 Picking a site like that would cause no --
20 as far as I can tell -- environmental harm.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And how far
22 away in miles is that; do you know?
23 MR. SALMON: About 35 or 40 miles to the
24 south.
25 MS. WOLF: My name is Celia Wolf, and I'm
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1 an eighth grade student at the Benjamin School
2 in Palm Beach County.
3 I have lived in Juno Beach all my life and
4 have been involved with the sea turtles since I
5 was very young.
6 I was given my first real responsibility to
7 help the turtles when I was eight years old, and
8 would ride my bike down to the Center every
9 morning to write the new nesting turtles on the
10 beach blackboard.
11 Today I give talks to other school kids and
12 visitors at the Marine Life Center. I also help
13 with the turtle rehabilitation.
14 Over the years, I've learned a lot about
15 the problems that the sea turtles face, and have
16 become very dedicated to their survival. I feel
17 honored to be a part of a community that shares
18 its beach with these threatened and endangered
19 creatures that have lived there for many years.
20 We are very fortunate to have these species
21 living in our county and state. We should be
22 honored and privileged to be their guardians,
23 and I know that I am.
24 On behalf of the young people of
25 Palm Beach County, the State of Florida, and
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1 this planet, I just don't understand why they
2 would choose this last remaining pristine beach,
3 second only to Amani in the Indian Ocean for
4 loggerhead nesting.
5 We are charged with the responsibility to
6 manage and protect these resources. Why are we
7 willing to compromise their future existence?
8 My friends and I don't understand why.
9 The young people of this planet trust you
10 to make the right choice. Don't let them put
11 this pier on Juno Beach. Alternate sites exist
12 that would not impact the sea turtles as much.
13 Pier supporters just want a pier if you go
14 anywhere, so why put it where there is the
15 largest amount of turtles?
16 My friends and I think a pier would be fun,
17 too, but not at the expense of threatened and
18 endangered species.
19 Do those in support know that there is a
20 plan to close the pier for most of the year?
21 If you're concerned about the feelings of
22 the people of Florida on environmental issues,
23 please remember that in last year's net ban
24 referendum, nearly 72 percent of this state's
25 voters voted to ban the marine nets. This
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1 represents nearly 3 million votes. In
2 Palm Beach County, 84 percent of votes were yes
3 to ban nets.
4 The citizens of this state are obviously
5 overwhelmingly environmentally conscious and
6 concerned.
7 Maybe it would be best to put this issue
8 before the voters. I can tell you confidently
9 that the young people of Palm Beach County would
10 most definitely vote against putting a pier at
11 this location.
12 You have the power today as the guardians
13 of my future to leave a legacy that would make
14 the present and future citizens of this state
15 proud.
16 Please insist on an alternate site, or just
17 vote no. Please, please have the courage to
18 make the difference for our present, and my
19 future.
20 I also have some signatures to submit from
21 the faculty and students of the
22 Benjamin School. Mr. Kehl, the Headmaster, is
23 the first signature on the petition; and
24 Greg Norman's family also signed. And I
25 highlighted those signatures for you. There are
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1 a total of 78 signatures representing north
2 county families.
3 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, ma'am.
4 MS. WETHERELL: I think we have about
5 9 minutes left, so I'll ask the remaining four
6 speakers to come on up. Evan Abrams,
7 Dave Homcy, David Godfrey, and Don Daniels,
8 please.
9 MR. HOMCY: Thanks.
10 My name is Dave Homcy. I have been a
11 teacher and a fisherman in Palm Beach County for
12 nearly 30 years. I've fished the beaches, the
13 jetties, and the back waters of
14 Palm Beach County during that time.
15 And my children grew up fishing on the
16 Juno Pier. They cut their teeth fishing on the
17 Juno Pier. David and Jenn love that place.
18 I've also witnessed in that 30-year period
19 the tremendous environmental and ecological
20 damage that has taken place with waterfront and
21 beachfront development.
22 I've become a good deal more enlightened
23 because I am a conservationist, and an
24 environmentalist, become a good deal more
25 enlightened about the potential effects of
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1 placing the -- the pier at a pristine location
2 like Juno Beach. It's the last stretch of beach
3 that is virtually untouched in Palm Beach
4 County. And the -- the nesting density there is
5 higher than in any other part of -- of the
6 state.
7 I like to fish. But I also recognize that
8 there are -- that there is a higher good to be
9 won here, and that all of the creatures in an
10 ecosystem are -- are affected by what happens to
11 any one of those.
12 I strongly advocate the -- that you vote
13 against the development of this pier in
14 Juno Beach, Jupiter.
15 Thank you.
16 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
17 MR. DANIELS: My name is Don Daniels, I'm
18 an elected town council member of the town of
19 Jupiter.
20 Jupiter's a community of 30,000 residents.
21 We abut the proposed pier site. The site is
22 nestled in between the town of Juno Beach and
23 the town of Jupiter. It's a very natural beach
24 area.
25 On the turtle issue, I have brought a
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1 little turtle with me. I'm not allowed to
2 handle the real turtles because they are
3 federally endangered. And only certain people
4 are qualified to do that. So I thought I'd
5 bring one that I could handle.
6 The town of Jupiter is solidly against this
7 site. We are solidly for the fishermen. We
8 have a lot of fishermen in our community that
9 use our beach all the time.
10 They have an excellent fishing opportunity
11 that is available now at the inlet. It is now
12 being improved. That will extend 300 feet into
13 the ocean. There's plenty of parking.
14 We would like to see another pier in the
15 county if that's what the county desires, but
16 not at this site. This is the exact wrong
17 site.
18 This site was selected prior to any studies
19 being done on the -- on that site, or any other
20 area. And the studies have been retrofitted to
21 fit that site.
22 We do not wish to give man preference over
23 turtles. However, there is other sites nearby,
24 it's not 45 miles. There's other sites nearby
25 that man could easily use to fish.
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1 So we are definitely in opposition to this
2 pier as proposed, this pier site. The
3 conditions that are to be placed on the -- the
4 site by DEP --
5 The other chart, please.
6 -- would virtually make the pier
7 unfishable.
8 I think the fishermen are being sold a
9 long, tall fish story on this. As you can see,
10 the green part of the pie is the fishable time
11 that the pier would be able to be used.
12 I appreciate your time on this, and I
13 really would appreciate a total denial on this
14 site.
15 Thank you.
16 TREASURER NELSON: May I ask a --
17 GOVERNOR CHILES: Yes, sir.
18 TREASURER NELSON: -- question?
19 Commissioner, since you're an elected
20 official of the City, earlier there was --
21 someone said that there ought to be an expansion
22 of the existing pier at the Jupiter Inlet.
23 Would you give us your comments about that.
24 MR. DANIELS: There is already a planned
25 extension. It is -- it will be constructed
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1 shortly at that site.
2 TREASURER NELSON: And that is not a
3 place -- an inlet is not a place where the
4 turtles nest?
5 MR. DANIELS: No, sir. Charts that we have
6 from Broward County -- in fact, this picture
7 that we have shows that wherever there's an
8 inlet or a pier -- and Broward County found this
9 out by studies -- that the fishing nesting is at
10 zero. I mean, zero. And we're talking very
11 pristine nesting areas here.
12 So the fishing platform planned at the
13 inlet will not impact the -- the turtle nesting.
14 TREASURER NELSON: And how far is that
15 Jupiter Inlet pier from the proposed Juno Beach
16 pier?
17 MR. DANIELS: It's approximately 2 miles.
18 And it's in the middle of our town of Jupiter.
19 And we endorse that fishing platform
20 100 percent, we always have. Jupiter Inlet is
21 the one that proposed it, and the town of
22 Jupiter is 100 percent behind it.
23 Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR CHILES: Thank you, sir.
25 MR. GODFREY: Good morning.
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1 My name is David Godfrey. I'm here on
2 behalf of the Caribbean Conservation Corporation
3 and the Sea Turtle Survival League, who asks you
4 to deny the submerged land lease requested.
5 CCC was founded over 35 years ago by the
6 late Dr. Archie Carr for the purpose of studying
7 and protecting marine turtles around the world.
8 One thing that three decades of research
9 have taught -- has taught us is that nesting
10 beaches with the densities like Juno Beach are
11 really becoming a rarity around the world.
12 And the gradual chipping away at these
13 important nesting sites is probably one of the
14 most serious threats to the long-term survival
15 of these species.
16 A new fishing pier located right in the
