Reported by:
KRISTEN L.
BENTLEY
Certified Court Reporter
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
2894 REMINGTON GREEN
LANE
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32308 (850)878-2221
.
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB
BUSH
Governor
CHARLES H.
BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture
CHARLIE
CRIST
Attorney General
TOM
GALLAGHER
Chief Financial Officer
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
3
I N D E X
DIVISION OF BOND
FINANCE
(Presented by BEN
WATKINS)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
5
2
Approved
5
3
Approved
5
4
Approved
6
5
Approved
6
6
Approved
6
OFFICE OF FINANCIAL
REGULATION
(Presented by DON
SAXON)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
7
DEPARTMENT OF
REVENUE
(Presented by James
Zingale)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
8
2
Approved
11
3
Approved
12
4
Approved
12
5
Approved
17
HIGHWAY SAFETY AND MOTOR
VEHICLES
(Presented by Fred
Dickinson)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
18
2
Approved
19
3
Approved
20
4
Approved
22
5
Approved
22
6
Approved
25
7
Approved
28
DEPARTMENT OF LAW
ENFORCEMENT
(Presented by Heather Smith)
1
Approved
30
2
Approved
30
3
Approved
31
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
4
ADMINISTRATION
COMMISION
(Presented by Teresa Tinker)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
32
2
Approved
65
FLORIDA LAND AND WATER ADJUDICATORY
COMMISSION
(Presented by Teresa Tinker)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
66
2
Approved
66
BOARD OF
TRUSTEES
(Presented by Colleen Castille)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
67
2
Approved
74
3
Deferred
109
4
Approved
79
5
Approved
80
6
Approved
86
7
Approved
91
8
Approved
95
9
Approved
96
10
Deferred
97
11
Approved
101
12
Approved
104
13
Approved
108
STATE BOARD OF
ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by Coleman
Stipanovich)
ITEM
ACTION
PAGE
1
Approved
109
2
Approved
109
3
Approved
109
4
Approved
110
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE -
9/21/04
5
1
PROCEEDINGS
2
THE GOVERNOR: The next cabinet meeting will be
3 Tuesday, October 5th,
2004.
4
Division of Bond Finance.
5
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on the minutes.
6
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
7
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Item 1
8 is approved without
objection.
9
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 2 is a resolution authorizing
10 the competitive sale
of up to $100 million in PECO bonds.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
12
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
14 objection, the motion
passes.
15
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 3 is a resolution authorizing
16 the competitive sale
of up to approximately $364 million
17 of Turnpike revenue
bonds.
18
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
19
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
21 objection, the motion
passes.
22
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 4 is a resolution that does
23 two things.
First, it authorizes the competitive sale of
24 up to 12 and a half
million dollars of new money bonds for
25 a parking facility at
University of South Florida. And,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE -
9/21/04
6
1 secondly, it
authorizes the issuance and competitive sale
2 of up to $3.9 million
in refunding bonds for debt service
3 savings.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
5
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
7 objection, the motion
passes.
8
MR. WATKINS: Item No. 5 is a resolution authorizing
9 the redemption prior
to maturity of Jacksonville
10 Transportation
Authority bonds.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
12
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
13 objection, the motion
passes.
14
MR. WATKINS: And Item No. 6 is a report of award on
15 the competitive sale
of $200 million in PECO bonds. The
16 bonds were awarded to
the low bidder at a true interest
17 cost of approximately
4.60 percent.
18
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.
19
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
21 objection, the motion
passes.
22
Thank you, Ben.
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMISSION -
9/7/04
7
1
THE GOVERNOR: Financial Services Commission. Office
2 of Financial
Regulation.
3
Good morning, Don.
4
MR. NORTHAM: Good morning, Governor, members of the
5 cabinet.
Adoption of Amendments to Rule 69V-40.205 and
6 69V-40.225, Florida
Administrative Code.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on Item 1.
8
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
10 objection, the item
passes. Thank you, sir.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
8
1
THE GOVERNOR: Department of Revenue.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Item 1
5 is passed without
objection.
6
Item 2.
7
DR. ZINGALE: This is going to go a little slower.
8
THE GOVERNOR: That's fine.
9
DR. ZINGALE: We have four items on the agenda today.
10 The four items
primarily deal with planning, budgeting,
11 capital facilities,
and our performance contract. I've
12 got a small little
intro and then we'll take up No. 2.
13 Glasses are
required.
14
We spend about four months going out and critically
15 evaluating our
planning system, our measurement system,
16 our budgeting system
with some of our friends in the
17 private sector.
That caused this kind of a
18 characterization of
each of those documents that we have
19 in here. We
felt after that evaluation that our budget
20 system was pretty
solid. We were identifying minimal
21 critical needs that
needed to be brought forward. Our
22 capital facility plan
is no big deal, not a whole lot of
23 effort is put into
it. It's kind of minimalistic at best.
24
Our strategic plan that's embedded in here is pretty
25 weak. Our
operating plan, what is usually used in the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
9
1 private sector to
transform your strategic plan down to
2 where the employees
are doing the work didn't exist. And
3 our measurement
system, while adequate, really didn't
4 challenge the
organization to move forward in a direction.
5 What we were doing
very well is we did have really strong
6 strategic initiatives
that didn't really flow from the
7 planning
process. We looked at the big things we wanted
8 to get done and we
broke them out as strategic initiatives
9 and we really planned
by strategic initiative.
10
We took most of the last six months, knowing that the
11 plans in front of you
today are for '05/'06. Budget for
12 '05/'06 has to be
taken in front of the Legislature. But
13 the underlying
planning framework is really nine months
14 away with an internal
goal to try to dramatically revamp
15 each of these pieces
so that when July 1 of next fiscal
16 year starts, we will
have meaningful stretch goals in all
17 of our
programs. It will go down to line employees so
18 they know what their
contribution is. And we will be
19 rolling out the first
ever operating plan in the
20 Department of Revenue
so we can have some assurances that
21 site managers and
line employees know what we are doing.
22
We're kind of enthusiastic about the outcome of that
23 undertaking.
You will see that as we go through this year
24 knowing that most of
what you see in here doesn't take
25 place until July 1 of
'05/'06. So with that background as
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
10
1 it is, we're going to
take up Item No. 2 which is our LBR
2 request for next
year.
3
The overall LBR request last year is slightly less in
4 total dollars than in
the previous year both in terms of
5 general revenue, down
about .3 percent, about a half a
6 million less.
And in total spending, about $300,000 less.
7 Our key priorities,
the top five all have to do with
8 technology. The
remaining two-and-a-half years on our
9 SUNTAX transformation
is in this mix and phase one and
10 phase two of our
child support system, the entire child
11 support system is
funded by either federal dollars or
12 federal incentive
dollars. So there is no general revenue
13 embedded in that.
14
Six through ten are very small items and I wouldn't
15 count them as very
critical. The last four are really
16 things that are
partners, the SDU and our Dade County
17 child support office
down there that's run by the state
18 attorney down
there. These are really issues we have to
19 put in our budget for
other agencies. I would like to
20 push a little help
for Dade County. They're asking for
21 some space and they
are asking for some positions. They
22 do need some help
down there. But our budget requests are
23 primarily, like
you've seen from us the last few years,
24 very, very slight
reductions, highly driven by technology.
25 We hope in a very
short period of time us coming back
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
11
1 again for some more
position reductions. So with your
2 permission, I would
like to see the budget request
3 approved or do you
have any questions?
4
GENERAL CRIST: Motion on 3.
5
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion.
6
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
7
THE GOVERNOR: And a second. Any discussion?
8
GENERAL CRIST: Thank you, Governor. I just want to
9 commend Dr.
Zingale. Our office has the opportunity to
10 work with the
department on child support enforcement
11 which we think is
awfully important. The work you people
12 do in conjunction
with our office we are very grateful for
13 and appreciative
for.
14
DR. ZINGALE: Appreciate that. Thank you.
15
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. All in
16 favor say aye.
17
(Aye.)
18
THE GOVERNOR: I abstain so I can submit my own
19 budget. I think
that's what I'm supposed to say.
20
DR. ZINGALE: Item 3 is our long-term capital
21 facility plan, really
thick document. Again, only two
22 things in this very
long document. One is an anticipation
23 that maybe with the
final repeal some day of the
24 intangible tax at
least some of our improvements, we
25 expect to see fewer
Department of Revenue employees as we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
12
1 go through time.
But our major issue that's in here is
2 we've been working
with Mr. Simon from DMS in the hopes
3 that sometime in the
next three years our site here in
4 Tallahassee, Tax
World, that probably wouldn't have
5 withstood a
90-mile-an-hour wind coming through last week,
6 will be collocated and
moved out to Southwood and we've
7 been working with Star
Buck Enterprises in terms of making
8 that happen. We
have some DRI things going forward.
9 That's the only thing
of any significance in the long-term
10 plan. If there
is not any questions, I would request
11 approval of Item
3.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
13
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
14
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Any
15 discussion?
Without objection, the item passes.
16
DR. ZINGALE: Item 3 is that --
17
THE GOVERNOR: Item 4.
18
DR. ZINGALE: Oh, excuse me. Item 4 is our
19 long-range
plan. And this was the document I referred to
20 as fairly weak in
terms of something we hoped to be
21 showing you as this
year progresses. So I'm primarily
22 only going to
highlight in this document the major
23 initiatives that are
undergoing now and will continue out
24 for the next couple
of years. On the general tax side,
25 the new computer
system is fully matured. To date we have
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
13
1 spent $61.1 million
over the last five years. We've got a
2 return on investment
today, FTE savings, revenue
3 generation,
productivity increases, 280 million while
4 we've been building
the system. The phase that we are
5 entering in now is
moving into the data warehouse, the
6 case management
tools. And we expect to see each year's
7 annual investment
produce three to four times rate of
8 return on that
investment since we're back into dealing
9 with the enforcement
systems and the management tools that
10 will let us get more
productivity out of our employees.
11
So on the general tax side, it's primarily all driven
12 by technology.
On the child support side, we are looking
13 at fairly radical
initiatives down the road that shift
14 from judicial back
into administrative, that leverage the
15 benefits of CAMS 1
(phonetic), the backend enforcement new
16 computer system, to
free up resources that we can deploy
17 to the front end of
the system.
18
You see an extension of the initiatives that have
19 been going around for
some time, produced a billion
20 dollars worth of
collections last year, that's a
21 substantial increase
in 11 percent last year. So we
22 expect those
initiatives to continue to get us as we
23 pledged in a very
short time to the top five in the
24 country.
25
On the property tax side, a difficult task at best,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
14
1 where our job is to
regulate property appraisers in terms
2 of the quality of
their role that they bring forward, this
3 last year and this
next year coming up, we are continuing
4 our effort on both of
our in-depth and non-indepth roles
5 to expand the number
of statistical tools we have
6 available. We
used to have one statistical tool for the
7 in-depth side, one
statistical tool for the non-indepth
8 side. Kind of
boring stuff. We have seven tools now on
9 both of them to apply
to the roles. And we have a major
10 initiative coming up
to work on quality control in our
11 field work.
12
If you would look at all of our programs, I think we
13 have identified a
major initiative is this total revamping
14 of our planning
system and our measurement system in a
15 manner where we can
come in front of you with some very
16 aggressive long-term
goals. Not some, Let's limp forward
17 next year and do a
little better than we did, but very
18 aggressive in all of
our programs, with meaningful
19 measures that will
drive down into our organization.
20
We have going underway right now, taking the measures
21 that we have come up
so far and driving them down in the
22 line employee
performance evaluations, something we
23 observed in the
private sector but haven't been able to
24 achieve yet in the
Department of Revenue.
25
So you have a plan that is going to go through a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
15
1 major revision between
now and '05/'06 starting. And we'd
2 be more than happy to,
as that development wants to work
3 with you collectively
or individually, to show you the
4 progress. We'll
have to sell a lot of that to the
5 Legislature if they
are going to allow us to proceed in
6 that direction.
We are the only agency that I do know
7 that is funded by core
business process. And so we're
8 kind of hoping these
tools will allow the Legislature to
9 want to have us be
managed in this direction. So with
10 your permission, I
request approval of Item 4.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
12
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Any
14 discussion?
15
Without objection, the motion passes.
16
DR. ZINGALE: Item 5 is the annual performance
17 contract. And I
hate to say it, but I think I kind of
18 branded this one also
as weak. There are good measures in
19 here, not nearly
enough measures that I believe we could
20 give you a clear
picture of what's going on. You can kind
21 of see on the first
page of the measure we do have a
22 measure that says,
The dollars collected voluntarily,
23 because our primary
goal is to try to get taxpayers to
24 voluntarily pay the
correct amount of tax as a percentage
25 of total dollars
collected. This is always one of those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
16
1 strange ones. As
SUNTAX got substantially more efficient
2 at the enforcement
side, our taxes that come in from
3 nonvoluntarily
compliance went up. We brought in about
4 300, $258 million more
money this year from our
5 enforcement efforts
than we did in the prior year. And
6 when you do that, that
causes this measure to be slightly
7 below standard,
nothing to do with performance. It had to
8 do with the economy
and how well we are performing. If
9 you look further down
the line, one that we got behind on,
10 which is below
standard on the average number of days to
11 resolve a dispute
from an audit, we had been making major
12 progress. We
moved in the opposite direction. We have an
13 action plan to bring
that in goal fairly soon.
14
The only other one below standard, I don't consider a
15 very good
measure. But it was only .3 percent under and
16 that measure had to
do with the number of stratum that a
17 property appraiser
presents in excess of 90 percent. Most
18 of these measures, to
be honest with you, were fairly easy
19 to achieve.
20
THE GOVERNOR: You're an honest man, Zingale.
21
DR. ZINGALE: Well, we want to do better than that.
22 They were chosen in
negotiation with the Legislature and
23 were fairly easy to
achieve. We want to hopefully present
24 a measurement system
this year that's very difficulty to
25 achieve but is
challenging and we're working hard to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE -
9/21/04
17
1 present that and we'll
report back to you in terms of how
2 the Legislature takes
that. So with your permission, I
3 would like my
performance contract approved.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
5
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
7 Without objection, the
motion passes.
8
Thank you, Jim.
9
DR. ZINGALE: Thank you very much.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
18
1
THE GOVERNOR: Department of Highway Safety and Motor
2 Vehicles.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes of the February
4 26th, March 9th, and
March 30th --
5
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
6
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second on
7 Item 1. Without
objection, the motion passes.
8
MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is our quarterly report for
9 the quarter ending
March of this year. It's a pretty good
10 start to our calendar
year. We had a big increase in our
11 number of driver
license and motor vehicle customers in
12 the offices, on the
Net, and on the phones. Increased
13 emphasis on motor
vehicle dealers. Inspections and the
14 mobile home
inspections that we performed statewide for
15 every mobile home
that's either constructed here in
16 Florida or offered
for sale in this state. That was
17 fairly timely with
what we've been through the last two
18 months.
19
We started a new program that requires 80-year-olds
20 or anybody over the
age of 79 to be vision-tested every
21 time they renew, not
only when they come in the office.
22 Today everybody that
comes in the office is vision-tested.
23 But those that renew
by mail, phone, or Internet do not do
24 the vision
test. We have now put together a plan where
25 they also provide us
with a vision test and we put a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
19
1 little web-based plan
for the doctors to submit to us of
2 that testing.
The doctors for the elderly are also
3 elderly and they are
not computer literate and have told
4 us in no uncertain
terms they're not going to use it. But
5 fortunately in that
quarter only 258 were revoked. About
6 86 percent were
approved and just 13 percent had to be
7 referred for new
prescriptions or whatever. So it seems
8 to be working.
We have not heard any complaints.
9
For that quarter, we had less fatalities and we
10 started our Operation
Safe Ride which is a statewide burst
11 we're going to do
every so often to try to target
12 aggressive driving
throughout the state. Those are some
13 of the highlights
from the first quarter, Governor.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
15
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
17
THE GOVERNOR: There is a motion and a second to
18 accept the
report. Without objection, it is accepted.
19
MR. DICKINSON: Item 3 is our quarterly report for
20 the quarter ending
June '04. More customers again. We
21 also began the
rollout of our new driver's license that
22 has been before you
on more than one occasion. We are now
23 doing central
issuance process, those that come through
24 the Internet or those
that are noncitizens that come in
25 our office and go
through that 30-day delay. We're
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
20
1 processing over 7,000
a day. It is working well. We
2 should be doing our
performance testing starting next week
3 or in the coming weeks
and roll out through the fall. And
4 in addition, we had 18
troopers recognized by MADD as
5 members of the 100
Club. Those are troopers who make 100
6 or more arrests in the
previous calendar year. And Ronald
7 J. Evans made 300
arrests, one of our troopers. You know
8 how many days we work
in a calendar year. So to make 300
9 DUI arrests in a
calendar year is pretty spectacular.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: Would you tell us which roads he's
11 covering so --
12
(Laughter.)
13
MR. DICKINSON: Polk County. Imperial Polk County,
14 excuse me.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
16
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
17
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
18
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second to
19 accept the report,
quarterly report, for the quarter
20 ending June
2004. Without objection, the report is
21 accepted.
22
MR. DICKINSON: Governor, Item 4 is the performance
23 contract for this
year past. The good news is we did meet
24 50 of our 67
standards, about a 75 percent goal. And as
25 you're well aware,
some of our standards are not totally
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
21
1 within our control but
we are pleased to report that the
2 death rate, that's the
fatality per 100 million miles
3 traveled, dropped to
an all-time low in Florida of 1.7.
4 The national rate is
1.5 but we've always been about .4 to
5 a half a point above
the national rate. So we're
6 shrinking that
difference. That is good. That is
7 substantially lower
than the goal we set of 1.85.
8
The crash data had some very positive trends. We had
9 just under 3 percent
less crashes, 3 and a half percent
10 less injuries and 3
percent less property damage. We did
11 have more people,
unfortunately, were fatals on our
12 highways than ever
before. But as that tells you, we just
13 got more people
driving.
14
Alcohol-related crashes were up a little bit. As I
15 said, fatalities were
up about 8 percent. Increase in a
16 lot of our fatalities
are pedestrians and motorcycles.
17 Motorcycles up 23
percent. Pedestrians up almost a little
18 over 5 percent.
We lead the nation, unfortunately, in
19 pedestrian and
bicycle deaths and we're working with DOT
20 on that as we
speak. Pretty much met most of our other
21 standards. Seat
belt compliance at an all-time high of
22 72.6 percent.
Standard we were trying to achieve was
23 67 percent. So
we did well in those categories.
24
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
25
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
22
1
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
2
THE GOVERNOR: Motion and second. Without
3 objection -- Item 4 is
accepted. The report is accepted.
4
MR. DICKINSON: Next year, I'll probably lump these
5 up like Jim Zingale
did, but this is the next year's
6 performance contract
or I guess the current year. We
7 developed this in
conjunction with the legislative
8 appropriation staff
and other budgeted entities as
9 approved in the past
by the Legislature and signed by the
10 Governor under the
General Appropriations Act.
11
Several standards were changed from the prior year or
12 eliminated. But
basically, we're trying to reflect some
13 trends and some
budget forecasts that are coming that we
14 are trying to comply
with.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
16
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion.
17
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Motion and second. Without objection,
19 the report is
accepted.
20
Item 6.
21
MR. DICKINSON: Item 6 is our legislative package,
22 Governor, and we have
not had success in the legislative
23 package that we have
in some other areas. We haven't been
24 able to get our
legislative bill through for the last two
25 years. So it
really looks the same as I've been before
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
23
1 you the last two
years. I would like to point out -- I
2 know Commissioner
Bronson will be interested in this -- we
3 have a problem with
Class D licenses when you're driving a
4 vehicle with a gross
vehicle weight rating of over 8,000
5 pounds.
Currently -- what has happened, basically,
6 Governor, is the
weight of these vehicles has increased
7 more than our ability
to keep up through the licensing
8 process. We're
suggesting to eliminate the Class D, as in
9 dog, license which is
the chauffeur's license, the old
10 chauffeur's
license.
11
It really doesn't serve any purpose in today's world.
12 We will still have
our commercial driver's licenses plus
13 your Class E license
and all the Class Ds would slide back
14 in that
category. But if you're driving a truck or an SUV
15 of over 8,000 pounds
DVWR, which is a Ford 250, a Chevy
16 2500, a Hummer, these
are the cars that are over the 8,000
17 pounds, for your
personal convenience, if you drive it,
18 you do not need to
get the Class D driver's license. We
19 had that in the bill
last year. It did not pass. And I
20 think, quite frankly,
there's going to be a separate bill
21 in addition to the
Department bill that will fly on this.
22 And from what I hear,
a number of legislators are
23 interested in doing
it quite early.
24
THE GOVERNOR: Yeah, the ones that have cars like
25 that?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
24
1
MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir.
2
THE GOVERNOR: Representative Johnson going to
3 sponsor it? I
always drive by his Hummer --
4
MR. DICKINSON: We don't have a problem with
5 sponsors.
They're coming out of the woodwork on it.
6
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: If I could, Governor, the
7 thing that brought
this to my attention was we had people
8 who had little one and
two-horse trailers hooked to their
9 vehicles were being
stopped, and many of them by DOT
10 officers, and
ticketed. And that's about $173 ticket for
11 not having a Class D
license. The big problem here was
12 and what I talked to
Fred about was I don't know a single
13 car dealer who sells
an Escalade or one of the more -- the
14 bigger SUVs are
telling anybody they got to have a Class D
15 license to drive it,
whether you hook a trailer to it or
16 not. And so a
lot of housewives are getting a lot of
17 tickets because they
don't have -- and wives of farmers
18 and so forth who
drive these bigger vehicles to haul
19 supplies back and
forth to the farm are getting ticketed.
20 And I just didn't
think it was fair if they weren't being
21 warned ahead of time
that they've got to go take a special
22 test just to drive
that vehicle.
23
So I appreciate Fred working with us on that. I
24 think it will solve
that problem.
25
THE GOVERNOR: Is there a motion?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
25
1
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
2
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
3
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second to
4 accept the legislative
package for the Department 2005.
5 Without objection, it
is accepted.
6
MR. DICKINSON: Item 7 is our Department LBR,
7 legislative budget
request. Governor, this is about a
8 4 percent increase
request over the current year. And
9 most all of it is for
technology or very few personnel.
10 You're probably
familiar with most of it, the funding on
11 the nonrecurring
monies is for driver's license contract,
12 which is a little
higher than the old one, trooper
13 overtime, motor
vehicles, and gasoline and maintenance.
14 And the last couple,
I'd like to reflect on a moment.
15
DMS has a standard, if you will, for 75,000 miles for
16 pursuit
vehicles. We have an inordinate amount of
17 vehicles over
that. And I think all of you -- and you-all
18 have law enforcement
under you -- are running into the
19 same problem.
With the gas price going up and right now
20 we are only budgeted
for a buck 58 at the pump. And so
21 you see how long ago
that was changed. We're asking for a
22 little added money
there. But I am alarmed at how much
23 our maintenance costs
have gone up. And we're asking for
24 just about as much
money in increased maintenance costs as
25 we are for the
increased gas. And that is all lumped in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
26
1 with our budget
request.
2
This year we were fortunate enough to get some,
3 couple million, to
handle that. But we're getting to a
4 point where I think it
probably needs to go into the base.
5 But every year we do
have to request that. Our fleet is
6 growing older and less
reliable. Maintenance costs, as I
7 mentioned, sky
high. We do have a salary adjustment.
8 We're asking you,
Governor, for a critical class
9 acknowledgement of our
motor services people. These are
10 the folks on the
front line who are making a whopping
11 $20,000 a year and
serve 50,000 customers a day. And this
12 is -- they have been
hit hard since 9/11.
13
Quite frankly, our times, our waiting times, are a
14 little longer in our
driver's license offices and we are
15 trying to address
that. You've given us, through your
16 leadership, some
go-ahead for some technological changes
17 that will be coming
on board the latter part of this year.
18 But we'd like to
recognize those folks. We have some
19 fixed capital outlay
issues that we'd like to address that
20 are also embedded in
there.
21
And we do have the funding sources, Governor, we've
22 tried to stay away
from the general revenue drain. As a
23 matter of fact, our
trust fund has been used to try to
24 help in those
deficits over the last five or six years.
25 So we hope to
continue to do that.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
27
1
The hurricanes have changed the landscape for what's
2 going on right
now. Our numbers are not going to look
3 near as good, none of
them are next year, and we all know
4 that. Our guys
have been stretched pretty thin as all of
5 yours have. I
was out on a tractor yesterday,
6 Commissioner Bronson,
and I just mowed this pasture a
7 couple of weeks ago
and it's amazing how the ant hills
8 were back up in it and
that's what we've got out there is
9 an army of ants, not
only at our local EOC, but out there
10 in Pensacola, in Gulf
Breeze and in all of these towns.
11 And I'd just like to
say thanks to you for your leadership
12 and thanks to all our
people who are out there. Our guys
13 had about a one-day
break between Charley and Frances and
14 about two or three
days between this last one. Everybody
15 is a little bit weary
but they look like ants. I mean,
16 we're rebuilding, the
waves may wash us away but we're
17 going to rebuild that
ant hill as quickly as possible.
18
Like I said, we're asking for a little flexibility in
19 this budget to where
we can anticipate for some of those
20 contingencies in the
future.
21
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Motion on 7.
22
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
23
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
24 Treasurer?
25
CFO GALLAGHER: I have a question. Not on 7.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
28
1
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. There's a motion and a second.
2 All in favor say
aye.
3
(Aye.)
4
THE GOVERNOR: I abstain for purposes of submitting
5 my own budget to the
Florida Legislature.
6
Yes, Treasurer.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: My question is on your dealings with
8 certain HAZMAT
licenses, we have a clemency case coming up
9 on Thursday where an
applicant has three prior felony
10 arrests, arson
convictions. He recently flipped a
11 tractor-trailer
containing 40,000 gallons of milk yet he
12 still has a valid
HAZMAT endorsement. And I'm concerned
13 that maybe we should
have some legislation that would sort
14 of keep that from
happening here in Florida.
15
MR. DICKINSON: Treasurer, we have a new HAZMAT --
16 actually, it was an
outcropping, if you will, of the
17 Patriot Act.
And July 31st of '05, we will begin the
18 federal HAZMAT
program which means a background check,
19 fingerprint, the
works, the vetting, through several
20 agencies. That
legislation does include the ability for
21 our state to come in
and take action in instances such as
22 this.
23
Quite frankly, when it was brought up by your staff a
24 little earlier, we
were wondering why this wasn't covered
25 and we probably
should have passed something in the past
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPARTMENT OF HIGHWAY SAFETY -
9/21/04
29
1 to cover this.
But it's always been a federal program
2 that we've relied
upon. If we don't have the legislation
3 right now, we know we
have the authority, we think the
4 federal legislation
knocks that particular case and others
5 out. And I'll
have you a little more detailed report
6 later in the week on
that. But right now it looks like he
7 will be knocked out
under those set of facts.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Fred.
9
MR. DICKINSON: Thank you, Governor.
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT -
9/21/04
30
1
THE GOVERNOR: Department of Law Enforcement.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
5 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
6
Item 2.
7
MS. SMITH: First, let me send regrets from
8 Commissioner Tunnell,
he is in Pensacola with the recovery
9 efforts there,
including our office building, all 90
10 employees are having
to be relocated into, right now the
11 Escambia County
Sheriff's Office, about 4800 square feet
12 of space. He
expresses apologies for not being here.
13
THE GOVERNOR: That building -- that may be an
14 opportunity rather
than a problem.
15
MS. SMITH: Absolutely. Item No. 2, we respectfully
16 submit for approval
our '03/'04 annual performance report
17 and our contracts,
purchases, and agreements over 100,000,
18 for the period April
1st through June 30th, 2004.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on two.
20
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
21
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
22 Without objection,
the item passes. Would you like to say
23 something about it or
are you just --
24
UNIDENTIFIED: I think this is running very smoothly,
25 thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
DEPT. OF LAW ENFORCEMENT -
9/21/04
31
1
(Laughter.)
2
THE GOVERNOR: We're good to go then. Thank you.
3 Item 3.
4
UNIDENTIFIED: Item 3, we respectfully request
5 approval of our FDLE
proposed legislative budget for
6 '05/'06.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
8
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
9
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. All in
10 favor say aye.
11
(Aye.)
12
THE GOVERNOR: I abstain for purposes of submitting
13 my own budget to the
Florida Legislature. Thank you.
14
UNIDENTIFIED: Thank you.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Well done.
16
UNIDENTIFIED: Appreciate that.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
32
1
THE GOVERNOR: Administration Commission.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
5 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
6
Item 2, Teresa. Good morning.
7
MS. TINKER: Good morning. Item 2 in the
8 Administration
Commission, request authorization to enter
9 the draft final order
and we have speakers on this issue.
10 The first speaker is
Robert Gardner, Jr., representing the
11 Petitioners.
12
THE GOVERNOR: Do we have some time? How many people
13 are going to
speak?
14
MS. TINKER: We have five people to speak. And I'll
15 ask that they limit
their time to two or three minutes
16 each.
17
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Good morning, sir.
18
MR. GARDNER: Good morning, Governor, commissioners,
19 ladies and
gentlemen. My name is Robert P. Gardner, Jr.
20 I reside at 1529
Oakhaven Road in Jacksonville, Florida.
21 I'm here to speak on
the Wal-Mart issue. I'm co-counsel
22 with Mr. Ansbacher
who was unable to attend this morning.
23
For purposes of the record, I was handed, just
24 moments before I
walked in here, a revised draft final
25 order totally
different from the one that we received in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
33
1 advance. I
haven't had a chance to even look at it or
2 respond to it and at
this juncture I'm told there is a
3 possibility that Mr.
Sanders may or may not offer it. On
4 the chance that he
might, I would object to it under due
5 process requirements
of notice and at least a right to
6 respond. He's
had more than two weeks. And to hand this
7 to me one minute
before I walk in the door is
8 unacceptable.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Teresa, can you come back?
10
MS. TINKER: Just to clarify, Governor, the proposed
11 draft that he's
talking about is not the staff's
12 recommended
order. The staff's recommendation is to
13 basically adopt the
Hearing Officer's findings and
14 conclusions and the
Hearing Officer's recommended order.
15 There is another
order floating out there. We just
16 received it ourselves
this morning, have not had a chance
17 to look at it.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Well, that's -- go ahead.
19
MR. GARDNER: Procedurally, for the record, I would
20 object to it, but I'm
going to go ahead and I don't know
21 how to respond to it
because I haven't had an opportunity
22 to even read
it. However, it's our position that this
23 proposed zoning is
wrong. It was from the outset. It is
24 today. And I
think it would be in the future. Based
25 specifically on the
fact that there is a church that's
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
34
1 more than 100 years
old immediately adjacent to the
2 property in
question. From the site plan that was
3 presented, the back of
this Wal-Mart store would butt
4 right up to the
church. The church would look at a
5 Wal-Mart loading dock
and garbage receptacle. We say
6 that, in of itself
makes it not appropriate. It's also
7 not appropriate for
our neighborhood.
8
Ironically, a similar zoning, which was directly
9 across the street
diagonally was turned down by the zoning
10 commission. It
was for a residential piece of property
11 that they were
seeking to have rezoned for professional
12 office space which is
a less restrictive than the
13 neighborhood
commercial that they are asking for the
14 Wal-Mart. I
would submit to you that Judge Alexander,
15 after a two-day
hearing, he took testimony and evidence of
16 witnesses, including
experts. He's an erudite judge who's
17 been on the bench,
I'm told, 18 years, very knowledgeable
18 in zoning
matters. He ruled in his recommended order that
19 the City did not
comply with their own 2010 comprehensive
20 plan.
21
I would submit to you that it was remanded. An issue
22 arose, the City
reclassified Bartram Road as a collector.
23 At the time the
initial hearing was had, it was a local
24 road. It was
remanded. Judge Alexander considered that
25 road a revised order,
same result. It's not in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
35
1 compliance. I
would urge the commission to follow the
2 judge's recommended
order and I thank you.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you very much.
4
MS. TINKER: The next speaker on behalf of the
5 Petitioners is
councilwoman Lynnette Self of the City of
6 Jacksonville.
7
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
8
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Good morning, Governor and
9 cabinet and thank you
for this opportunity. This has been
10 quite a volatile
issue in our district. But I just wanted
11 to state a few
things. Number one, I support your staff's
12 recommendation.
The land use for this property is as it
13 should be today, it's
RPI. RPI land use in Jacksonville
14 is for professional
offices, could be for apartments.
15 What we're asking
here is for a 24/7 use. That is the
16 wrong use, I don't
care if it's a Wal-Mart, I don't care
17 if it's a
Winn-Dixie. It's not the person, it's not the
18 zoning, it's the use
of the land. Our comprehensive plan
19 states that the
developed or developable land areas of the
20 confluence of
collector or highway classified roadways
21 which are suitable
for medium to high densities. Your
22 judge, the DOAH
judge, stated that this particular piece
23 of property is not
suitable. It's not suitable to
24 increase the
intensity of it.
25
When this comprehensive plan was put together back in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
36
1 early '90s, a line was
drawn at Bartram Road. And that
2 line says, This is
where we stop with the intense
3 commercial use.
That's what I'm here to oppose today,
4 that we do not bring
any more of an intense use past
5 Bartram Road. I
too just received this draft for an
6 amended recommended
order and do not agree with it. I
7 believe there are some
things in it that are not true,
8 that they are taken
out of context. I would respectfully
9 disagree with this
amended order if it is put in. I would
10 ask you, Mr.
Governor, and cabinet to please listen to
11 your staff's
recommendation and to deny and not allow this
12 land use to go
through.
13
Again, it's a land use issue. It's not a zoning
14 issue. But if
you do look at the site plan, if a
15 developer has to give
up 150-foot buffers, I would say it
16 doesn't fit on that
piece of property. You're trying to
17 put a square peg into
a round hole and it just doesn't
18 work. Hopefully
we'll have a chance to speak to this
19 order if this is
taken up, the new revised one, because I
20 do have some notes in
the small amount of time I've been
21 able to look at
it. But thank you very much for your
22 time.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Treasurer?
24
CFO GALLAGHER: You're on the Jacksonville city
25 commission?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
37
1
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Yes.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: And did they take this item up at
3 all?
4
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Yes, we did vote on it.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: What was that vote?
6
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: There were two opposed. I
7 believe there were two
that had to abstain. I'm sure that
8 Mr. Sanders had
that. And the rest were in favor of it.
9 He had 19 total -- he
had 15 -- it was either 15 or 13 to
10 two, I think.
11
THE GOVERNOR: Thirteen, I think.
12
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Thirteen to two.
13
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I have a question as well.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Yes.
15
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: You were saying this area was
16 not suitable for 24/7
for a business of this type but then
17 you said it would be
suitable for apartments and so forth.
18 That would be 24/7 as
well, wouldn't it? That doesn't --
19 I can't compute what
you're saying there if there's going
20 to be apartments
there and people living there, coming in
21 and out 24/7.
What's the difference between the two?
22
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Well, you have a lot more of an
23 intensive use with a
development such as this land use,
24 what we're proposing
for a store. You do have also your
25 deliveries that come
in. It's much more intense use.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
38
1 With apartments, you
still have the dumpsters and that but
2 you don't have the
deliveries coming in and the large
3 trucks, you don't have
that. And an apartment use is
4 really not as intense
as people coming in at different
5 times of the hour of
the day, going into a grocery store
6 buying
something. Your lighting is more intense. There
7 are a lot of
differences between apartment living and
8 between a 24/7
commercial use.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
10
COUNCILWOMAN SELF: Thank you.
11
MS. TINKER: The next speaker is councilwoman Suzanne
12 Jenkins representing
the City of Jacksonville.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
14
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Good morning, Governor, and
15 cabinet
members. I am Suzanne Jenkins, District 4. This
16 is in my district and
I'm going to put a picture up here.
17 I know there is some
magic camera.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Got to turn it on.
19
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: This large area right there
20 that you see, the
large road, that is Atlantic Boulevard.
21 The site that's built
is the Publix that is there, the
22 strip mall. And
then across from that is the open field.
23 This area is the
area. (Indicating.) This is the buffer
24 they are proposing
here for the community and the church.
25 And this is Bartram
Road and this is Atlantic Boulevard.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
39
1 Everything on this
side is my district. Everything on
2 this side is
Councilwoman Self's district. And I'm here
3 representing my
constituents today who were involved. I
4 set up a citizen
advisory that worked with the developer.
5 This is an infill of
an old hospital site. It's located
6 on the corner of a
six-lane arterial road with a collector
7 road. You'll get
the counts of that, people who are
8 following me.
9
When a developer comes in to bring me infill, I
10 always want to trade
up because a lot of times in the old
11 neighborhoods what's
left doesn't work with what was zoned
12 15 years ago or what
the land use was. Our city is
13 dynamic and it's
changing. As I said, there was citizen
14 involvement.
They worked through the issues and they came
15 up with this site
plan and I'll show you that.
16
Our area is on the left with the trees. You can see
17 the buffers that will
be left. All of that was negotiated
18 by citizens.
The liquor -- there's no liquor. There's no
19 gas going to be sold
there. There will be a police stop
20 station was agreed to
inside. And a majority of the
21 citizens who served
on this and my constituents are okay
22 with this. They
said if they had to choose between what
23 we have now, what
would be allowed by right or this, they
24 chose this and that's
why I'm here today and that's why I
25 supported them at our
city council meeting when we took up
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
40
1 the vote of 13 to 2
and 2 and two were absent.
2
I feel that this is a balanced approach and it comes
3 down to two things, a
technicality that has been resolved
4 and a 24/7 national
policy of Wal-Mart. Now my business
5 is to look at zonings
and legislations and land use. But
6 I'm not in the
business of telling business how to do
7 their business and
refuse to support them in asking them
8 to not do their
business at 24/7. That, I do not feel, is
9 my right as a local
legislator to ask a national company
10 to change their
national policy because if they do it
11 here, then it goes
nationwide. I'm not going to be party
12 to that.
13
But I would ask you, and this is very important to
14 me, we debated
this. It was hotly debated and
15 Councilwoman Self and
I are usually in lockstep on every
16 issue just about in
this kind of zoning or land use. This
17 is probably the one
time that we are totally on opposite
18 sides. But I
have to represent my constituents and this
19 is what they
chose. So I'm here asking you-all to respect
20 what we did at
council, the time we took, the effort we
21 gave, and our final
recommendation was to support this
22 land use change to
allow this to be built there so that
23 this community can
have some resolution and some assurance
24 on how this corner is
going to play out in the future.
25 Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
41
1
THE GOVERNOR: Councilwoman, you mentioned a
2 technicality.
What was the technicality you're referring
3 to?
4
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: The one thing that was --
5 Bartram Road, at the
time that this passed, was not a
6 collector road.
But there was legislation introduced
7 during that time that
made it a collector road. So by the
8 time they went and had
this first hearing with the
9 officer, the judge, it
was not a collector road at that
10 point. It had
not been designated.
11
THE GOVERNOR: You mean the --
12
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Bartram Road.
13
THE GOVERNOR: The recent ALJ ruling?
14
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Not the recent one, the first
15 one.
16
THE GOVERNOR: The first one.
17
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Since then, that designation
18 has gone
through. I believe Bartram Road carries like
19 3,500 trips.
20
THE GOVERNOR: So why did the -- what's your opinion
21 of why the ALJ ruled
the way they did?
22
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: I wish I knew. I can tell you
23 as a local
legislature, we hate when that happens because
24 it takes us out -- I
mean, we heard the issues, both
25 sides --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
42
1
THE GOVERNOR: We're not -- thank God you-all do the
2 land use work, let me
just be clear. I appreciate the
3 patience it requires
and the intensity of these decisions
4 and I always wonder
when we have disputed administration
5 commission meetings
why the heck are we here?
6
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: It feels strange to be
7 standing before
you.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Yeah, I mean, this is just an odd
9 quirk of
history. Maybe it will be changed one of these
10 days. But the
question at hand is, correct me if I'm
11 wrong, but we took
your position once and we were
12 summarily slapped
back in essence. And so you're asking
13 us to do the same
thing again. I'm just confused. Maybe
14 Teresa could explain
one more time what exactly our role
15 is here. I
mean, certainly it isn't to site Wal-Marts.
16
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Absolutely. I believe it's
17 about the commercial
note. In our comp plan, the
18 definition of a
commercial note is with an arterial road
19 and a collector road,
and that is what you have at Bartram
20 and Atlantic.
21
THE GOVERNOR: But we've already -- hasn't that
22 already been --
hasn't that --
23
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: But the first time it was not
24 designated a
collector road even though it was functioning
25 as one. It had
not been designated. It has since that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
43
1 first one came
out. And when you all sent it back to the
2 judge and said, Okay,
here's new evidence. It's a
3 collector road and he
still hasn't changed, I don't
4 understand why.
I wish I could tell you. But I'm here
5 asking you to support
the local legislators on this at 13
6 to 2 who supported
it. I wish I could answer for the
7 judge. I really
don't know.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Well, I shouldn't have even asked you
9 that. Judges
sometimes can be mysterious.
10
COUNCILWOMAN JENKINS: Thank you very much.
11
THE GOVERNOR: Thanks a lot.
12
MS. TINKER: The next speaker is Carl Sanders
13 representing Wal-Mart
stores.
14
MR. SANDERS: Good morning.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
16
MR. SANDERS: My name is Carl Sanders. I'm with the
17 law firm of Edwards
Cohen in Jacksonville and I'm pleased
18 to be here this
morning and it's been a long journey and I
19 think both sides are
ready to see some closure here.
20
Governor, if I may, I had some notes written out here
21 but I think I'm just
going to jump right into your
22 question that you had
for Councilwoman Jenkins which is
23 the legal issues that
you-all are looking at today. The
24 initial order that
came out from the administrative law
25 judge concluded that
this particular parcel was not
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
44
1 located in what's
referred to as a "node" which is a
2 planning term of
art. It's a term of art that is defined
3 specifically in the
City's comprehensive plan.
4
Based upon his initial order, we took the position
5 the first time that we
were before the cabinet that he
6 erroneously construed
that definition by placing form over
7 substance, if you
will, that the fact that it was --
8 Bartram Road was
labeled as a local at road at the time of
9 the hearing should not
-- should not require turning a
10 blind eye to the fact
that it was actually functioning as
11 a collector
road. And our position was if you make that
12 finding, that finding
of fact, and recognize that, in
13 fact, it's a
collector road, there's only one conclusion
14 that you can reach as
a matter of law and that conclusion
15 is that this parcel
meets the clear and unambiguous
16 definition of a node
as set forth in the City's
17 comprehensive
plan.
18
As lawyers and judges do sometimes, we disagreed.
19 The administrative
law judge, when it went back to him, we
20 briefed the issues
again, and his revised order said that
21 that he still thought
that this parcel was not located
22 within a node.
Our response to that is more fully set
23 forth in our
exceptions that we filed and argued and
24 briefed with staff
and it's basically this: That the way
25 that the judge reads
the plain and unambiguous terms of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
45
1 the definition of
"node" in the City's comp plan is
2 directly contrary to
that definition. That is a question
3 of law. It's not
a question of fact. We're not asking
4 you to reweigh the
evidence or second-guess his decision
5 in that regard.
I've got lots of nice pretty pictures I
6 can show you guys and
I think everyone here will agree
7 that it's a nice
development, it's a good-looking
8 development and the
argument is whether or not this is the
9 right development for
this particular parcel.
10
Our position is that as a matter of law it is because
11 it falls within the
definition of a node. Let me explain
12 why it is that we
take that position. And, again, these
13 are all set forth in
our exceptions that we filed to the
14 revised recommended
order. First and foremost, the
15 definition of a node
requires a couple of things. One,
16 that you be a -- that
the subject parcel be a developed or
17 developable land
area. Certainly, we are that. Second,
18 that you be located
-- the parcel be located at the
19 intersection of a
collector and an arterial roadway. We
20 now meet that
criteria as well.
21
And here's the problem. The problem is in the
22 revised recommended
order, I want to point out that
23 specific paragraph,
Paragraph 10, the revised recommended
24 order. The ALJ
draws this conclusion: Given the
25 character of the
neighborhood, the Bartram property is not
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
46
1 suitable for medium or
high densities or intensities of
2 the type authorized
under the neighborhood commercial land
3 use category.
There are at least three things wrong with
4 that conclusion as a
matter of law. And I just want to
5 address a couple of
them.
6
First and foremost, the character of the neighborhood
7 is not the issue for
the land use amendment proceeding.
8 That's not the issue
in the definitions section. The
9 definition is very,
very clear. It says: Are you a
10 developable land area
and are you located at the
11 intersection of a
collector and arterial. The remainder
12 of that sentence
which says, comma, which, which parcels,
13 which developable
land areas are suitable for medium to
14 high densities and
intensities of use. The question is
15 what does that
mean. Does that add a third criteria or a
16 third element to the
definition? We think clearly it does
17 not.
18
And our position is that this particular parcel
19 already has a
commercial land use classification that's
20 known in Jacksonville
as RPI. In RPI, you can do limited
21 commercial retail
developments and it's debatable as to
22 whether you can do
the proposed grocery store in RPI. We
23 take the position
that you can and the judge noted in his
24 initial order that
that may, in fact, be a debatable
25 issue. In
addition to RPI you also have -- I know the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
47
1 time is coming up --
you can also have institutional uses
2 like the hospital that
was here before, 24/7 hospital.
3 You can have 24/7
apartments and the like.
4
We take the position that because the city council,
5 the City of
Jacksonville, I'll sum up with this, has
6 already made the
determination that this parcel of land
7 is, in fact, suitable
for medium to high densities and
8 intensities of use
that, as a matter of law, it meets that
9 prong of the
definition and there was no opportunity for
10 the ALJ to review
that as a question of fact and take it
11 into
consideration. And for those reasons, Governor, and
12 members of the
cabinet, we would respectfully request that
13 you reject those
conclusions of law set forth in the
14 recommended order and
revised recommended order.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you.
16
MS. TINKER: The next speaker is A.C. Skinner
17 representing Bartram
Atlantic.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Good morning.
19
MR. SKINNER: Good morning. I'm Chester Skinner.
20 I'm one of the owners
of the property at Bartram and
21 Atlantic. The
property was purchased from the Morse
22 Foundation who is the
owner of the previous hospital
23 located on the
site. I'm not going to spend a lot of time
24 talking about a lot
of things that have been covered
25 previously. But
I just wanted to tell you that when we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
48
1 acquired the property
and two transactions in 2000 and
2 2002, the main
interest in the property was from
3 commercial
interest. There is very little interest. It's
4 not an office market
location. It's a very heavily
5 traveled road, there's
something like 38,000 cars a day
6 going by it.
It's really not a very suitable location for
7 residential either,
quite frankly.
8
But the interest came from the commercial sector and
9 we worked very closely
with Councilwoman Jenkins through
10 the citizens'
committee meetings trying to create a
11 development that
would be suitable and compatible and
12 benefit an older area
that needed some revitalization. I
13 feel personally very
comfortable with the development and
14 the work that
Wal-Mart has done to try and accommodate the
15 interests of the
neighborhood and I just ask that you
16 respectively support
the City council's 13 to 2 ruling and
17 the support of the
planning staff and approve this
18 development.
Thank you.
19
THE GOVERNOR: Thanks a lot.
20
MS. TINKER: Governor, we have a couple of citizens
21 that have asked to
speak. Former Representative Jim
22 Tullis (phonetic) and
Maryanne Sadee (phonetic).
23
REPRESENTATIVE TULLIS: Good morning, Governor, good
24 morning, cabinet
members. I just want to use Ms. Jenkins'
25 picture here.
I'm here this morning -- you don't know how
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
49
1 to do it either.
Oh, we're in trouble. We're in big
2 trouble.
(Laughter.)
3
I'm here this morning, I don't live in the area. I
4 was on the council in
1990 when I was put to be chairman
5 of the comprehensive
2010 plan which was dropped down by
6 the State and wanted
to come in and really look at our
7 zonings and take it
out of the political realm. And we
8 didn't know how that
was going to be done and that was how
9 you-all got it.
The process was it was going to come back
10 to the state and make
it harder to start tearing our plan
11 up. Every plan
can be changed, we understand that. I
12 want you to realize
one thing, if you will. Nothing has
13 changed in this
neighborhood in 15 years. It was
14 completely built
out. The hospital you're hearing was a
15 polio hospital for
children, was there back when polio was
16 in. It was when
polio was cured, they came to us and
17 wanted to make it a
children's hospital. And we denied
18 the 24-hour emergency
ingress and egress because this is a
19 neighborhood.
20
Yes, we have a Publix on the west side. We studied
21 this issue very, very
long during the comprehensive plan.
22 We stopped any
commercial zoning and kept it east of
23 Bartram Road where
Publix is, not to allow it to come
24 across and into that
residential neighborhood. Yes, we
25 did call for
RPI. And anybody here that thinks you can
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
50
1 put a Wal-Mart in an
RPI, God help our zoning because we
2 might as well throw it
all out the window. That was the
3 thinking of our
planning director and she quickly backed
4 off that and they
decided to come for rezoning.
5
I will tell you, to go for this zoning will start
6 eroding a plan that we
spent two years and that this group
7 adopted in
Jacksonville. I understand there can be
8 changes but not
changes when the area has already grown
9 out. This is a T
intersection right here. This is a T
10 intersection.
(Indicating.) This is a commercial
11 intersection.
(Indicating.) This is the property we're
12 talking about.
(Indicating.) This is all commercial
13 (sic) with the
exception of a little plumbing shop that
14 was put in in the
'40s --
15
THE GOVERNOR: All residential.
16
REPRESENTATIVE TULLIS: All residential. I'm sorry.
17 Thank you,
Governor. This was all residential and all
18 this is back
residential. And it's up to government to
19 protect those
neighborhoods and where do we protect them?
20 The commercial
neighborhood came in with Publix right here
21 and Bartram was the
dividing road. Nothing has changed.
22 I tried to get the
traffic count back in 1990 because we
23 looked at that.
We called it a local road. They couldn't
24 come up with those
figures. But nothing has changed out
25 there. We have
a school at one end, a Publix at the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
51
1 other, and a school in
the middle. We had a school at one
2 end, a school in the
middle, and a Publix when we did this
3 plan in 1990.
It's just a gross tearing apart of a plan
4 that myself and six
other members spent two years working
5 with a lot of good
help and I just hope that you will
6 adhere to what the
Hearing Officer and what your aides
7 have said and find in
favor of the neighborhood.
8
Thank you, Governor.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you very much. Good seeing you.
10
Good morning.
11
MS. SADEE: I'm Maryanne Sadde. I'm one of the
12 Petitioners and I
have a map. And I have for you
13 individual maps, they
have been provided to your aides but
14 there are --
15
THE GOVERNOR: That's going to be hard. Maybe the
16 picture might work
better. What do you think?
17
MS. SADEE: First, to show you, I'd like to make two
18 or three comments
that are in response to some that
19 Councilwoman Suzanne
Jenkins and attorney Carl Sanders
20 have said. I
was on that citizens advisory committee.
21 And the citizens
advisory committee was a symbol of people
22 from the neighborhood
to find out what was going on. The
23 citizens advisory
committee did not approve -- the
24 citizen's advisory
committee was there to try to protect
25 our neighborhood and
find out what plans were going
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
52
1 forward. And so
now our having agreed to be there and
2 listen to what was
going on is being construed as
3 approving what
happened. That is not true.
4
I would say further that looking at this map, if you
5 look carefully, you
can see some little dots. And the
6 little dots, again, to
get it oriented, it's not oriented
7 properly here.
This position is the subject property so
8 if you have yours
oriented right, you can see there is a
9 larger property and
then a little square out at the
10 corner.
Something that has sort of escaped notice has
11 been that Mr. Skinner
did allude that there are two
12 properties
involved.
13
It's sort of under the radar screen that not only is
14 there proposed a
Wal-Mart neighborhood grocery, but this
15 out parcel has been
kept with we don't know what is going
16 to go in there with
the plan. If this land use is
17 approved for
neighborhood commercial, we're buying a pig
18 in a poke in terms of
what will go there. But the
19 neighborhood
commercial would grant the most intensive use
20 for fast food
operation or whatever. I can say I live
21 here, so I'm just
--
22
THE GOVERNOR: Where are you pointing? Don't point
23 at the screen.
That doesn't --
24
MS. SADEE: This is the subject parcel.
25 (Indicating.) I
live here. Now when you look at the --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
53
1 this little map
further and you see all of the dots, I
2 would -- you'll
remember that Councilwoman Jenkins said
3 that her constituency
were for this. Look at the dots and
4 you will see these --
Councilwoman Jenkins' district is on
5 this side of Atlantic
Boulevard. Councilwoman Self's
6 district is on this
side of Atlantic Boulevard.
7
All of the dots in here show you where the people are
8 who signed the
petition opposing this use of the property.
9 So petitions were
signed and you-all have in your
10 possession some 500
signatures of petitions signed and
11 these folks live in
the neighborhood. Those who are for
12 it, Ms. Jenkins'
district is wide and goes this way and
13 there are many people
who may be for this project but they
14 don't live in the
neighborhood. We live here. To make a
15 little more -- and I
don't want to overuse my two minutes
16 but the --
17
THE GOVERNOR: You're in overtime right now, ma'am.
18
MS. SADEE: I'm going -- all right. It's a picture.
19
THE GOVERNOR: Someone will hold that for you.
20
MS. SADEE: It's right side up now, I think. Again,
21 you're here on the
law, not on politics. I'm not a
22 lawyer, I'm a
citizen. But I can read and I can see this
23 is the node. It
is being proposed that this is the node
24 and you can very
clearly see that the commercial -- this
25 is the commercial
intensive designation and this is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
54
1 Bartram Road.
And as the land use was designated, this
2 was the dividing line
and this is the subject parcel that
3 was transitional
zoning. This is a church. And so
4 Bartram Road is a
dividing line for transitional zoning.
5 If you approve the
land use that has been approved by the
6 City Council of
Jacksonville, that is if you do not deny
7 the City Council of
Jacksonville's approval, then you will
8 have brought into this
neighborhood more intensive zoning
9 than this and now
we'll have hanging out this -- here's
10 the church. And
our neighborhood could -- that will have
11 been broken down, the
design planned for stability for the
12 reasonable use of
land in a neighborhood.
13
We have someone who bought the property knowing what
14 the zoning and land
use were. It was known at the time.
15 It was nothing
new. And we would ask you to hold to the
16 land use that has
been carefully, carefully considered.
17 You have already
raised the question why we are here. But
18 it has been carefully
considered by many minds over
19 extensive time.
Thank you.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you very much. I tell you what,
21 you did pretty good
for not being a lawyer. You can tell
22 you've had some
practice at this.
23
MS. TINKER: Governor, we have one last speaker,
24 Tracy Arkin, the city
attorney for Jacksonville.
25
MR. ARKIN: Good morning. I'm Tracy Arkin, the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
55
1 deputy general counsel
from the City of Jacksonville and
2 we support the
position of the applicant here. And I'd
3 like to begin first by
addressing the issue that has to do
4 with the line drawn in
the sand when the comp plan was
5 adopted. The
comp plan maps were adopted almost 15 years
6 ago now. And the
comprehensive plan is not a document
7 that is set in
stone. It lives, it breathes, it adjusts
8 to what happens in the
community.
9
At the time that the comprehensive plan was adopted
10 and the maps were
adopted, Bartram Road was not a
11 collector road.
It was a local street at that time. It
12 was not functioning
at that point 15 years ago as a
13 collector road.
And as a result, if you look at our
14 definition of a node
in the comprehensive plan, it would
15 have been
inappropriate to have designated this for
16 commercial use back
when the comp plan maps were first
17 adopted because it
was not land that would have been
18 located at the
confluence of collector or higher roadways.
19
What has happened in the meantime, the traffic counts
20 on Bartram Road have
gone to over 3600 cars a day. The
21 road has
appropriately been reclassified as a collector
22 road and as a result
it's appropriate for the
23 comprehensive plan to
be amended now to change the land
24 use classification at
the intersection to a commercial use
25 because it is at a
site which under the definition
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
56
1 qualifies as a
collector and as a suitable site that the
2 comprehensive plan has
determined is a location which is
3 suitable for medium to
high densities and intensities of
4 use.
5
THE GOVERNOR: How -- I'm sorry, I hate to ask this
6 question because it
may mire me into the land use
7 discussion which I
don't believe is our role. But here I
8 go. How can this
be a collector road if dead-ends into
9 Atlantic?
10
MR. ARKIN: I think what you need to see is it is
11 probably a broader
view and this may be too small a scale
12 to see. It's
actually a collector road in part because it
13 goes from Atlantic,
it comes down and then ties into
14 University
Boulevard. And along that road, you've got a
15 private school.
In fact, I think two private schools, a
16 public school and
then up by the other end it splits
17 between a shopping
center site, grocery store site down to
18 the proposed site
here.
19
So it actually serves, to some extent, as a
20 cut-through between
two major arterials in Jacksonville.
21 It's not a local
street that just heads south and stops.
22 It actually is a
collector that serves as a bypass to that
23 main intersection at
Atlantic and University Boulevards.
24 So it has functioned
over the years as a collector road
25 because of the type
of traffic it carries, the function it
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
57
1 serves and the traffic
counts are such now that it
2 qualifies as a
collector road from the standpoint of
3 volumes of traffic as
well.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Okay.
5
MR. ARKIN: The only other thing I would add is that
6 we believe the ALJ was
wrong in his interpretation of what
7 the definition of a
node is under the comprehensive plan.
8 We think that in
writing the plan if you are at that
9 intersection, if you
are developable land, you are thereby
10 suitable for a
development such as this and that he erred
11 as a matter of law in
his interpretation of the
12 comprehensive
plan.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you very much.
14
MS. TINKER: Governor, that concludes the speakers.
15 Again, staff is
recommending a final order that adopts the
16 findings and
recommendations of the administrative law
17 judge.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Let me ask you, Teresa. If we vote
19 to -- vote with the
staff's recommendation, what's the
20 next step? My
problem, maybe I should ask -- I mean, is
21 this -- are we going
to court? This is going --
22
MS. TINKER: District Court of Appeals most likely.
23
THE GOVERNOR: District Court of Appeals. If you
24 guys don't win,
you're going to appeal it. And if you
25 aren't allowed to
develop property, you're going to appeal
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
58
1 it. Why are we
here?
2
So what -- Shanta, tell me, maybe you can help on
3 this. What
difference does it make what our view is on
4 this if it's certain
to be appealed. Do we have certain
5 weight because -- if
we change our mind now and reverse
6 ourselves from the
previous position that the State --
7 that the
Administration Commission took which was out of
8 deference to local
decisions being made locally, if we
9 reverse our decisions
now and follow the staff
10 recommendation, does
that somehow give the courts some --
11 do they defer to
us?
12
MS. COMBS: Not necessarily, Governor, no.
13
THE GOVERNOR: We just spent an hour and a half --
14
MS. COMBS: You, as the Administration Commission,
15 have a very narrow
standard of review on this. You can
16 only reverse the
findings of fact from the administrative
17 law judge if you find
there's not competent substantial
18 evidence to support
those findings of fact.
19
You can reverse the conclusions of law if you find
20 your conclusions of
law are as reasonable or more
21 reasonable than the
conclusions of law that the ALJ made.
22 I've read both
volumes of the transcript from this
23 hearing. It was
my legal determination that there was
24 competent substantial
evidence in the record to support
25 the ALJ's findings of
fact. Even if you want to change
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
59
1 the conclusions of law
as Wal-Mart and the City recommend,
2 you still cannot
change the findings of fact without a
3 finding of lack of
competent substantial evidence. Even
4 if there's evidence
that supports what you guys want to
5 do, that's okay.
But you still have to find that there is
6 not competent
substantial evidence in the record to
7 support what the ALJ
did. And when the Court gets it -- I
8 know, Governor, I'm
sorry. (Laughter.) That's how I felt
9 at the Miami, Florida
State game. Getting you back.
10 (Laughter.)
11
THE GOVERNOR: Commissioner?
12
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I didn't want to stop her
13 train of
thought. But I do have a question for her.
14
MS. COMBS: My point is if the District Court of
15 Appeal finds that
there is competent substance evidence
16 for what the ALJ did
and still finds that there is
17 competent substantial
evidence for what you guys want to
18 do, the Court is
likely to go with what the ALJ did
19 because the ALJ sat
and listened to the evidence. Sat and
20 listened to the
credibility of the witnesses and that's
21 the ALJ's role.
Now you-all have a role by statute, the
22 Legislature has given
you this role. Once it's gone
23 through the city
commission process, through the ALJ
24 process, it's given
you a role to make a determination but
25 the District Court of
Appeal has its role as well.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
60
1
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Commissioner?
2
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, I've got to tell you, I
3 have some concerns
here and whether it's a Wal-Mart or any
4 other -- whoever the
business is in this area where the
5 City has gone through
the process of looking at this and
6 made a determination
by a vote, a substantial vote, that
7 an administrative law
judge, after the City says, Well, if
8 the problem is that
they don't believe it's a collector
9 issue has now gone in
and said it truly is because of the
10 traffic flow, a
collector road, if that was one of the
11 substantial issues in
the original determination by the
12 administrative law
judge, it was carried back and the law
13 judge says, Well, I
understand it's a collector road now.
14 I understand you
voted to do this. But I'm still going to
15 rule the way I ruled
before, then in my opinion, and this
16 is strictly my
opinion, then the administrative law judge
17 did not look at the
fact that this local delegated elected
18 commission voted with
the idea that the collector road is
19 a collector road now
and decided just to go ahead and say
20 I've already heard
this once. I don't care if it's
21 changed, I'm not
going to change my opinion. That bothers
22 me a little bit and I
tell you why. Because development
23 in Florida now is
becoming so keyhole-oriented as to who
24 is going to attack
it, why it's being attacked. You can't
25 have enclaves, you
can't have sprawl -- now you have --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
61
1 now you have an area
where you have homes and businesses.
2 I'm sure it didn't
hurt you too bad.
3
(Laughter.)
4
The point is now you got an area that is developed,
5 you have an area
that's got homes around it, it's got
6 businesses around it,
now you don't even want a business
7 to come into an area
where the people living there can use
8 the business or make
it comfortable for them to travel to
9 a business without
having to travel across town or
10 whatever. This
thing is getting to the point now where I
11 guess we're going to
scrutinize every single issue that
12 comes before every
city and every county and it's all
13 going to be brought
back to us as referees. And quite
14 frankly, it reminds
me of the school issues when I was
15 first on the cabinet
here when we were having to go in and
16 try to delegate on
the school issues as to who ought to
17 have a school, who
shouldn't, and who should have a
18 charter.
19
I mean, to me, this board cannot be the one who makes
20 the determination
where local voters and businesses and
21 commissions and
elected people to try to overrule every
22 time an issue comes
up. I just believe that the
23 administrative law
judge, in my opinion, did not consider
24 the fact that the
Commission did say it was a collector
25 road. He just
decided to go with his first move and that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
62
1 was it. So I
have a problem with that.
2
MS. COMBS: One thing I'd like to respond to that is,
3 first of all, I
appreciate your frustration with the
4 issue. Secondly,
the Legislature has said that the ALJ's
5 standard of review is
preponderance of the evidence as
6 opposed -- in other
words, the ALJ does not have to give
7 deference necessarily
to what the City Commission did. If
8 the process of the
Legislature is laid out, the City
9 Commission has the
first bite at the apple. The ALJ has
10 the second bite of
the apple, according to the
11 Legislature.
The ALJ does not have to give necessary
12 deference to the City
Commission and then it comes to
13 you-all for review
and they've given you a very limited
14 standard of
review.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Treasurer.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: I'm very impressed at your lawyering,
17 now would you please
give us Bronson's side of the issue.
18
MS. COMBS: His side of the issue and how we can make
19 it work to
develop?
20
CFO GALLAGHER: Yeah.
21
MS. COMBS: We have to state with particularity in
22 our order why we want
to reject the findings of fact that
23 the ALJ made.
Now, I know that Wal-Mart and the City will
24 say, We don't even
have to touch the findings of fact.
25 But if we adopt their
legal conclusion as to what the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
63
1 definition of a node
is, and that's ultimately what the
2 issue is, is what is
the definition of a node, if we adopt
3 their legal definition
of that, we still -- there are
4 findings of fact
related to suitability of this property,
5 whether or not this
property is suitable to be developed
6 as a Wal-Mart.
There are findings of fact in the record
7 about that suitability
analysis. We have to state with
8 particularity why we
are rejecting those findings of fact
9 as to suitability,
that's how we get there.
10
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Anybody else want to say
11 something?
There is a -- does anybody want to make a
12 motion?
13
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
14
MS. COMBS: And I'll be happy to work with anyone of
15 your-all's staffs to
discuss it as well as the parties.
16
THE GOVERNOR: Motion. Is there a second? (Pause.)
17 Okay. No
second. How do I do this if I want to -- can I
18 give the second?
19
MS. COMBS: I think you can.
20
THE GOVERNOR: Hand the chair over to General Crist.
21
GENERAL CRIST: Is there a second?
22
THE GOVERNOR: Yes, I second.
23
GENERAL CRIST: Motion is seconded.
24
CFO GALLAGHER: Draft an order finding the plan
25 amendment --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
64
1
(Inaudible. Microphones not on.)
2
CFO GALLAGHER: It would be to offer the substitute
3 directing staff to
draft an order finding the plan
4 amendment in
compliance.
5
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'll second the substitute
6 amendment.
7
THE GOVERNOR: All right. Now, there is a substitute
8 amendment and a
second. Let me clarify one other thing
9 here since we have
this crazy four-person commission.
10 Does the Governor
have to be in the --
11
MS. TINKER: Not for this particular issue before the
12 Administration
Commission, Governor. It is a simple
13 majority vote.
If it's a tie the side that the Governor
14 votes on
prevails.
15
THE GOVERNOR: That's what I thought. Wanted to be
16 clear. All
right. Any other discussion?
17
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Only had one other one like
18 this, I think.
19
THE GOVERNOR: All in favor of the substitute motion
20 say aye.
21
(Aye.)
22
All opposed. No.
23
GENERAL CRIST: No.
24
THE GOVERNOR: Now we're backed to the original
25 motion. Do we
accept the staff's recommendation. Any
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION -
9/21/04
65
1 other
discussion? All in favor say aye.
2
(Aye.)
3
Opposed.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: No.
5
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: No.
6
THE GOVERNOR: There you have it.
7
MS. TINKER: Just to clarify for the Petitioners and
8 the audience,
Governor, the staff's recommendation that
9 adopts the Hearing
Officer's recommended order prevailed.
10
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you all very much.
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
FLORIDA LAND & WATER ADJUDICATORY COMM
9/21/04
66
1
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. You back? Back up?
Florida
2 Land and Water
Adjudicatory Commission.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
5
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
6 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
7
Is that all you got?
8
MS. TINKER: Item 2, request approval of the proposed
9 final rule
establishing the coastal lake community
10 development district
in Walton County.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
12
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
14 Without objection,
the item is approved.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
67
1
THE GOVERNOR: State Board -- what are we doing here?
2 Board of Trustees.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
4
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
5
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
6 Without objection,
Item 1 passes.
7
Item 2.
8
MS. CASTILLE: Item 2. Item 2 is the Department of
9 Management Services
item on disposal of state-owned
10 property in
Tallahassee. And this is the initiative for
11 asset management for
the state's properties which would
12 maximize usage and
minimize the cost to maintain property.
13 And Secretary Bill
Simon from the Department of Management
14 Services is here to
give a short presentation.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Secretary.
16
MR. SIMON: Good morning, Governor and cabinet, I
17 will be brief.
We do not want to put any Wal-Mart on the
18 former state
properties.
19
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Bill. You've been holding
20 that back for like an
hour, haven't you?
21
(Laughter.)
22
MR. SIMON: It was funnier when the room was full.
23 The project has had a
lot of press recently and we thought
24 it would be a good
idea to make sure we had on record a
25 briefing, although
I've spoken with most of you and your
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
68
1 staffs
separately. The project was initiated by the 2002
2 Legislature to review
our utilization -- the utilization
3 of the State
facilities pool. The primary objective of
4 the State facility
pool, of this review, is for efficient
5 and effective use of
the properties with a focus on
6 putting agencies and
state employees in the highest
7 quality buildings we
can. We have many situations where
8 employees are not in A
and B class space. They're in
9 buildings that are
substandard.
10
And, finally, to move, if we reach the recommendation
11 to this group that we
will dispose of properties that move
12 in a measured and
coordinated manner with the City and the
13 State and the County
as we brief them. And up before you
14 are an example of
four of the properties we're talking
15 about. It
seemed at some stage in the '70s the State was
16 interested in buying
former motels because there are three
17 of them that are here
that are currently being used in
18 various states of
uses, offices and day cares and such.
19
The good side of having an office in one of those is
20 you get your own
bathtub in your office. Not sure what
21 you're going to do
with it, but there is one in some of
22 those. The top
right building is a former gas station
23 that has been used as
a paint shop. Some of these
24 buildings have been
vacated. Some of them will be
25 vacated. But in
most cases, these are not properties that
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
69
1 the State needs to
maintain. We're in the process of
2 doing reviews,
evaluations of the properties. In fact,
3 two of these
properties, the Chevron gas station and one
4 located at 319 West
Madison, make up an entire city block
5 in the downtown area
along with some parking. And there
6 are better alternative
uses than what sits there today.
7
So as we move forward with this project, we'll be
8 back probably in the
November time frame, early December
9 with a recommendation
of potential candidates for
10 disposition.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: All right. So what are we here for
12 now?
13
MR. SIMON: Information.
14
CFO GALLAGHER: All right. Let me put out some
15 information.
There are some things here that I'm sure
16 you're aware of, for
example, the boiler for the Fletcher
17 and the Larson
Building which are two buildings that we
18 inhabit is in the
Collier Building. I'm sorry, in the
19 Collins Building.
20
MR. SIMON: Uh-huh.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: So where would one put the boiler
22 because there is no
room in the Fletcher or Larson for it
23 if you sold the
Collins Building?
24
MR. SIMON: Again, Treasurer, this is a review of the
25 properties. If
we're going to make a determination --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
70
1 when we make a
determination that we are going to
2 recommend we make a
move, we'll adjust the facilities, the
3 buildings, the people
that go with them. In many cases
4 we'll make a
recommendation that we leave some buildings
5 and renovate others
that are on -- that are in this
6 review. So it's
entirely possible that some of the
7 buildings that are Cs
and Ds that we occupy now can be
8 made into As and Bs
and will be utilized that way. So
9 it's difficult to
answer that question until we reach the
10 final one.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: Now what's a C? Is that get rid of
12 or keep?
13
MR. SIMON: It's a "not good". Cs and Ds are bad.
14
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: (Off-the-record comment.)
15
MR. SIMON: That would be a D.
16
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. You got the parking that
17 people in the Larson
and the Fletcher Building use as a C.
18 So nobody has enough
parking in this town and you're
19 looking to get rid of
a parking lot?
20
MR. SIMON: Looking to review it, Treasurer, to make
21 a determination that
we may keep, again, one entire city
22 block, turn it into
downtown parking that can accommodate
23 and relieve all the
parking issues which would then
24 provide an option for
utilizing some of the surface
25 parking that exists
which is an inefficient use of space
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
71
1 as --
2
CFO GALLAGHER: This particular one is multi-level.
3 It's not just single
level.
4
MR. SIMON: Uh-huh.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: So what do you plan on doing? This
6 is your overall plan
you're letting us know about. And
7 then you're going to
-- I mean, obviously, wouldn't want
8 to sell all this stuff
on the market right away and we
9 flood the thing and we
don't get any money for it.
10
MR. SIMON: Correct. Again, the process --
11
CFO GALLAGHER: I mean, listen, there certainly are
12 some pieces here we'd
do a lot better off selling them and
13 letting somebody else
have them. I fully agree with that.
14 I could pick a few of
them out real quick. But I don't
15 think we want to just
sell them all at once because I
16 don't think we'd make
any money doing that.
17
MR. SIMON: Exactly.
18
CFO GALLAGHER: And it would probably hurt us more
19 than help us.
So this is the plan and then you're going
20 to start figuring out
what to sell first.
21
MR. SIMON: And then we'll be back in front of the
22 Board for our
recommendation through the normal process
23 through State Lands
and the Trustees.
24
CFO GALLAGHER: One -- a couple of buildings at a
25 time?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
72
1
MR. SIMON: Yes, sir.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Like in November, you're not going to
3 say, Okay, sell all
these?
4
MR. SIMON: Yes, sir.
5
THE GOVERNOR: The other -- this is also part of just
6 the overall review of
the office space needs of
7 departments.
When the initial review was done, you know,
8 we're talking about
inefficiencies that cost us tens of
9 millions of dollars in
terms of rental costs. I don't
10 know if you-all saw
the Department of Revenue real estate
11 review in the agenda
this morning, they have
12 1,400,000 square
feet. And if they are occupying
13 350 square feet per
employee, and the private sector
14 standard is 180 or
even 150 in some cases, then they are
15 paying double perhaps
what the cost could be in terms of
16 occupancy costs that
could be going into investing in
17 technologies to
improve child support or anything else.
18 So I think as we
modernize our occupancy issues what we're
19 going to find is
there is going to be some private sector
20 opportunities to
provide some property taxes to Leon
21 County.
22
MR. SIMON: Yes, sir.
23
THE GOVERNOR: But this will be -- the Treasurer's
24 point is well
taken. We wouldn't want to sell anything
25 and depreciate the
values of the properties. It needs to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
73
1 be done
strategically.
2
MR. SIMON: Yes, sir. We plan to market these
3 buildings to the best
of our ability, one at a time, in
4 the most effective way
to generate the best revenues we
5 can.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Also recognize that once we put this
7 thing out and it's
public, which it is, now everybody is
8 going to sit around
and say, Well, let's see, I'm going to
9 just wait and get this
piece. So you may not sell the
10 first piece as much
as you could get. So you got
11 problems when you're
trying to --
12
THE GOVERNOR: Thing about this is the Tallahassee
13 Democrat will
editorialize what a bad guy I am for
14 suggesting this or
Bill, maybe you'll --
15
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, you can tell them that Lawton
16 Chiles started it all
off by building Southwood. It's all
17 his fault.
18
THE GOVERNOR: They wouldn't believe it. (Laughter.)
19 Being out there a lot
though, it's pretty convenient.
20 Southwood is pretty
nice.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, it's a long walk from the
22 Mansion, isn't
it?
23
MR. SIMON: I wasn't going to tell you about that
24 Mansion relocation
project.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: That's it. That's the ball house out
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
74
1 in Southwood is going
to be the new Mansion. That will be
2 the rumor. Start
that rumor.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Any other questions? There's a
4 motion. We have
to, I guess, accept this. Is there a
5 motion?
6
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
7
THE GOVERNOR: And a second?
8
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
10 objection, the report
is accepted.
11
MS. CASTILLE: Item 3 is the Department of Children
12 and Family's American
Habilitation services sublease.
13 These, Governor, and
cabinet are subleases -- are leases,
14 subleases from DCF to
developmentally disabled cluster
15 homes. The
request before you is a request to approve a
16 12-year sublease
between Department of Community
17 Services --
Department of Children and Families and
18 American Habilitation
Services.
19
Secondly, a determination that the proposed use is
20 not contrary to the
public interest. And thirdly, a
21 delegation of
authority to the secretary of DEP to approve
22 future subleases of
DCF cluster facilities. This is an
23 attempt to get all of
the cluster facilities under lease.
24 These are companies
that currently take care of
25 developmentally
disabled groups of people, generally in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
75
1 homes and
subdivisions.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: I have a question.
3
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, sir.
4
THE GOVERNOR: DCF owns these homes?
5
MS. CASTILLE: Technically speaking, the Board of
6 Trustees own the home
and we lease to the children --
7
CFO GALLAGHER: And we got these by buying them in
8 the communities?
9
MS. CASTILLE: I believe we probably had them built.
10 Is DCF here?
Yes, we had them built specifically for
11 developmentally
disabled.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. And we are letting this group
13 of American
Habitation Services -- are they going to
14 manage the
property?
15
MS. CASTILLE: Currently, the habilitation services
16 manages the homes and
the people in them. They have a
17 contract with the
State to do that. So there is already a
18 contract in place but
we also want them to have
19 responsibility for
the property as well which they
20 currently do.
They just haven't been operating under a
21 lease. The
purpose of putting them under a sublease is to
22 make sure that we
don't have tenants at will but we have
23 tenants who have
specific rights and responsibilities to
24 upkeep the
properties.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: All right. If for some reason, a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
76
1 management change, an
ownership change, or some reason
2 American Habitation
Services doesn't do such a good job
3 with these people that
they are taking care of and want to
4 fire them, okay, how
long is their contract? Do they have
5 a 12-year contract or
do they have an annual contract with
6 us?
7
MS. CASTILLE: Does the sublease have a clause in
8 it --
9
THE GOVERNOR: Not the sublease.
10
MS. CASTILLE: One moment. Does the sublease have a
11 clause in it that
runs concurrent with the contract and so
12 that if the contract
is lost by Habilitation Services --
13
THE GOVERNOR: Could you state who you are for the
14 record?
15
MR. WYGODSKI: Harvey Wygodski, Department of
16 Children and Families
design and construction. Right now,
17 we have a provider
that is in this building and a sublease
18 would take it to
--
19
CFO GALLAGHER: How long is the lease or how long is
20 the contract with the
provider? Is it annual?
21
THE GOVERNOR: It has to be.
22
MR. WYGODSKI: Yeah, it's updated until 2012, I
23 think.
24
CFO GALLAGHER: But it's subject to appropriation?
25
MR. WYGODSKI: No. AHCA pays the providers and --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
77
1
CFO GALLAGHER: So the contract is with AHCA.
2
MR. WYGODSKI: Yes.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: To take care of the kids.
4
MR. WYGODSKI: Correct.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: And it's an annual contract? This is
6 the contract to take
care of the kids. Forget the
7 building they are
in.
8
MR. WYGODSKI: Right.
9
CFO GALLAGHER: It's a contract to take care of the
10 kids.
11
MR. WYGODSKI: Yes.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: It's by AHCA? Under Medicare,
13 Medicaid?
Medicaid?
14
MR. WYGODSKI: Correct, yes.
15
CFO GALLAGHER: And it's a one-year contract,
16 five-year
contract?
17
MR. WYGODSKI: It's from year to year.
18
THE GOVERNOR: So the question is: Does your lease
19 have a clause in it,
your sublease have a clause in it
20 that if the contract
is cancelled that the lease is
21 cancelled.
That's what the Treasurer is asking.
22
CFO GALLAGHER: That's where I'm heading.
23
MR. WYGODSKI: We can do that, yes.
24
THE GOVERNOR: We have to do it. I assume --
25
CFO GALLAGHER: No, they didn't do it yet. That's
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
78
1 the problem.
That's why you have to ask these questions.
2
THE GOVERNOR: Come on, you're kidding me.
3
MR. WYGODSKI: Yes. No, it's in the sublease that we
4 can -- yes, that if --
if we're not happy with their
5 service, we can give
them notice and change them, yes.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Are we confirming that back
7 there?
8
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, we are.
9
THE GOVERNOR: You're good to go if that's the case,
10 right?
11
MS. CASTILLE: It gives the lessor the right to
12 terminate the
sublease immediately in the event that the
13 sublessee opts out of
the provider agreement.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Well, that's not --
15
CFO GALLAGHER: That's their side opting out. What
16 about our side?
17
THE GOVERNOR: Exactly. What happens if they're not
18 in compliance with
the performance elements of the
19 contract and they're
not renewed?
20
(Pause.)
21
THE GOVERNOR: Tell you what. Why don't you guys
22 figure out where it
is in the contract. We'll come back
23 to this item.
24
Kent, can you work with them just to identify it, the
25 lease? We will
table Item 3 and move to Item 4.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
79
1
MS. CASTILLE: Item 4 is the City of Palm Bay letter
2 of consent. The
consideration of a proposed dredging of
3 approximately 2,000
cubic yards of material for the
4 temporary sediment
sump in the Turkey Creek Tributary of
5 the Indian River
Aquatic Preserve. Aquatic preserve rules
6 prohibit dredging
except for certain minimal activities
7 and this is a one-time
authorization which meets the
8 criteria under the
rule.
9
The sump is intended to capture sediments that flow
10 from the upstream
portion of Turkey Creek and is a
11 temporary solution to
some upstream engineering changes
12 that are being made
to the C-54 canal -- I mean the -- I'm
13 sorry, I forgot the
name of the canal in the western
14 portion.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Western portion of what?
16
MS. CASTILLE: Of Indian River County.
17
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. There is a motion. Is there a
19 second?
20
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
21
THE GOVERNOR: Motion and second. Any discussion?
22 Without objection,
the item passes.
23
Item 5.
24
MS. CASTILLE: Item 5 is a request for approval of
25 amendments to Chapter
18-23 of the Florida Administrative
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
80
1 Code. This is a
rule that is for the coastal and aquatic
2 managed areas.
It is a clarification, the changes are
3 clarification of DEP's
law enforcement process with regard
4 to speeding tickets
for and other violations in the
5 aquatic managed
areas. And what it does is allows the
6 local courts to have
jurisdiction in the event of a
7 contestment of the
violation. It also allows the coastal
8 and aquatic managed
areas to collect park entrance fees
9 for the Guana River
State Park and the adoption of the fee
10 schedule for
environmental education centers in Rookery
11 Bay and Guana
Tolomato Matanzas National Estuarine
12 Research
Reserves.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
14
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
15
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
16 General?
17
GENERAL CRIST: Just a question on the fees. Are
18 they commensurate
with what they are in other --
19
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, with other parks, yes.
20
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
21 Without objection,
the item passes.
22
Item 6.
23
MS. CASTILLE: Item 6 is the Florida Keys National
24 Marine Sanctuary
annual status report and Billy Causey is
25 here from the marine
sanctuary to give his presentation.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
81
1
MR. CAUSEY: Thank you very much, madam secretary.
2 Governor, honorable
cabinet members, thank you very much
3 for this
opportunity.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Good to see you, Billy.
5
MR. CAUSEY: It's great to be up here again.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Evacuation worked out pretty good?
7
MR. CAUSEY: It is phenomenal, Governor.
8
THE GOVERNOR: Even with that lousy U.S. 1. All the
9 extra lanes you
want.
10
MR. CAUSEY: Yeah, the last three days.
11
THE GOVERNOR: I read that article about how every
12 time you see me you
were supposed to be talking about the
13 widening of U.S.
1.
14
(Laughter.)
15
THE GOVERNOR: Look good in a suit by the way.
16
MR. CAUSEY: Thank you. First of all, I want to
17 point out I'm very
proud to be here to brief you on this
18 seventh annual status
report for Florida Keys National
19 Marine Sanctuary
which you all know we manage through a
20 cotrustee agreement
with the State of Florida. And my
21 partner Kacki Andrews
from DEP is here with me today.
22
We are very honored to be able to present this. But
23 also, one thing I
wanted to point out to all of you is the
24 fact that we -- the
president's ocean commission report
25 came out and
recognized a need around the nation for
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
82
1 improved ocean
governments and we've been doing it here in
2 the state of Florida
for a lot of years. We have a
3 state/federal
partnership with DEP, with FWC. And we also
4 even have agreements
with Commissioner Bronson's staff on
5 aquaculture leases in
the Florida Keys.
6
So this state/federal partnership is something that
7 has actually caught
the attention of the president's
8 marine protected area
committee who are using our example
9 of interagency
coordination, interagency relationships, as
10 a case example, a
case study, around the nation as a model
11 of success. And
I think it's something that we can all
12 celebrate and I want
to thank my partners with DEP, with
13 FWC, and with
Department of Agriculture for the tremendous
14 relationship we've
had over the years and all the
15 leadership that you,
Governor, and the cabinet have shown
16 for the Florida Keys
National Marine Sanctuary.
17
The report has a number of items in it. It's a
18 pretty hefty
report. I think it's full of some good news
19 and some status
reports. First, on the coral reefs, we
20 did have a decline in
our coral reefs in '97 and '98
21 during massive
bleaching events. These were global
22 bleaching events and
we lost about 35 percent of our
23 corals in the
Keys. But this happened around the globe at
24 that same time.
25
What we've seen since then is in 1999 until present,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
83
1 as a result of our
long-term coral monitoring project as
2 funded by EPA and NOAA
and the State, we have seen that
3 decline level
off. And, in fact, we have not seen any
4 appreciable decrease
since 1998.
5
The bad news is that we're not seeing it start to
6 improve. And
that's what we're hoping to see. Places in
7 the Indo-West Pacific
like Palau off Australia, New
8 Guinea, areas like
that, did see an improvement. Our sea
9 grass have remained
somewhat stable in the sanctuary. And
10 one thing we also
report on in this annual report,
11 Governor, is
something I know you've been paying a lot of
12 attention to and
that's the U.S. Navy redredging project
13 of Key West
Harbor.
14
That project started in 2003 and has been progressing
15 quite well.
They're into Phase 2 now. They were using a
16 hopper dredge
originally and the hopper dredge came in and
17 took out some of the
settlement and now they're starting
18 to do their pinpoint
dredging. We did have some early
19 problems with the
hopper dredge getting out of footprint
20 of the dredge basin
but those have been corrected and
21 we're working with
the Navy and the contractors to
22 mitigate for
that.
23
We also, during that exercise, the Navy was proposing
24 to do some
construction along their seawall and we went in
25 with our team, the
state team and the federal team, and we
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
84
1 moved 3,500 coral
colonies. And we have them in nursery
2 areas, we have
scientists all over the U.S. now using
3 them. We have
them in the Florida aquarium. They're all
4 over the country and
we'll be bringing them back
5 eventually, some of
them, to retransplant to other areas.
6
Another thing I know that you've been paying a lot of
7 attention to or had
around the state are the concept of
8 no-motor zones.
When we passed the Florida Keys Natural
9 Marine Sanctuary Act
in 1990 and in 1997 when we
10 implemented our
management plan, we put into place 27
11 wildlife management
areas. Seven of those are
12 no-motorized
zones. This has turned out to be such a huge
13 success where we have
reduced the conflicts between
14 personal water craft
owners and other boat operators with
15 the flats guys that
the flats guys have gone to now asking
16 for more of them and
even off the city of Marathon they've
17 asked for a
no-motorized zone for us to come in and
18 establish
those. It's been such a success that Walt
19 Sterns with the
Saltwater Fly Fishing magazine in its
20 December/January
issue had a success story about the
21 no-motorized zones in
the Florida Keys and how they've
22 revived the
fishing. So this can be done and it can be
23 done to everyone's
enjoyment and success.
24
In June, Jim Conatan (phonetic) came down and helped
25 some of our NOAA
leadership. Jim Conatan is the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
85
1 president's chairman
for Council on Environmental Quality
2 and he came down and
did one of his first open water dives
3 to place a marker out
at Malasis Reef. He did a great
4 job, we were really
happy.
5
The no-discharge zone that you-all have supported and
6 helped pass has been
moving along successfully. We've
7 been getting good
compliance. In 19 -- in 2003 we
8 initiated an education
outreach program with all the
9 various agencies, the
county, the state agencies as well
10 as some of the local
grassroots groups such as Reef
11 Relief. And
we've been campaigning that no-discharge zone
12 and we're getting
really good compliance and people are
13 starting to really
pay attention to it. And it went
14 through with very
little controversy in the local
15 community.
16
The last thing I want to report on is our draft
17 management plan has
completed the NOAA review. We have,
18 in fact, given it to
the cabinet aides and we are going to
19 be bringing that in a
formal review within 30 days and
20 then we plan to wrap
up the draft phase with a series of
21 public
meetings. With that, Madam Secretary, I think I'm
22 finished with the
report.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you so much. Any questions?
24
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
25
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion. Is there a second?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
86
1
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
2
THE GOVERNOR: It's moved and seconded. Without
3 objection, the report
is accepted. Thank you so much for
4 all your hard
work.
5
MR. CAUSEY: Thank you, Governor.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Billy.
7
MS. CASTILLE: Item 7, the 2004 Florida Forever
8 interim report and
priority list. Before you, Governor,
9 and members of the
cabinet, is consideration of the
10 acquisition and
restoration council's 2004 Florida Forever
11 interim report and
recommendations as well as the interim
12 priority list.
13
The Florida Forever priority list is dictated by the
14 statute and
essentially has 34 goals and 11 criteria that
15 the acquisition
council applies in deciding what are the
16 most appropriate
properties. It is a process by which the
17 group goes -- that
many people come around to the State
18 agency and to the
acquisition council and make their
19 presentations.
The communities get very involved in it.
20 The non-profit
environmental groups get very involved as
21 well as the
representatives of multiple parcels.
22
So there are a number of issues that the acquisition
23 council considers in
determining which property goes on
24 the list. It is
-- there are a number of, you can say
25 "competing
interests", and the acquisition council does
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
87
1 their best in trying
to equally apply -- to equally
2 represent the
properties on the list. Some of the issues
3 that are -- some of
the elements that are required to be
4 in -- the land is
required to have before going on the
5 list include historic
and archeological properties, acres
6 for sustainable forest
management, acres for endangered
7 species, recreational
abilities, natural groundwater
8 recharge functions,
open space in urban areas, and to
9 participate in
programs that acquire space in the urban
10 core specifically as
well as open space in the urban
11 service areas.
12
A number of acres is also required for water supply,
13 including areas
critical to springs, sinks, and aquifers.
14 These are just some
of the elements that the acquisition
15 council considers
when determining which properties are on
16 the list. And
then the other element that comes into play
17 when deciding which
properties go on the list is how well
18 have we -- to either
take properties off or move
19 properties from an A
list to a B list, the acquisition
20 council considers
with the input of staff how successful
21 we have been in
negotiating some of the properties. And
22 when we get to a
negotiation impasse, that is one reason
23 why we either take
projects from an A list to a B list, it
24 puts a little bit of
pressure on the owners to decide if
25 they are going to
fish or cut bait so to speak. And it is
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
88
1 sometimes
successful. Other times it is not successful
2 and that is when those
properties come off both the A and
3 the B list and come
off the list altogether.
4
There are always more properties on the list than we
5 have money for and we
have a number of properties that are
6 large properties that
have additional -- large projects
7 that have additional
interests in them. For instance, the
8 greenway between Eglin
Air Force Base and the Apalachicola
9 River. Another
one would be the the springs initiative.
10 A third one would be
the Keys ecosystem. So there are a
11 number of competing
priorities that the acquisition
12 council attempts to
take into account when deciding what
13 priorities are
where.
14
So the list before you today has several properties
15 that were moved from
the A list to the B list, several
16 properties that were
added to the priority list, and then
17 decided whether they
should be on the A or the B list.
18 It's a complicated
process and the staff does a good job
19 in making it easy for
the acquisition council to take
20 those votes and make
those decisions. But it's always a
21 competing list and
there's always someone who ends up
22 lower down on the
list than others.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Treasurer.
24
CFO GALLAGHER: Governor, I'd like to move to approve
25 this item with the
direction for ARC to incorporate a
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
89
1 reevaluation of the
Florida Forever list for consideration
2 in March 2005.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Can
5 you explain the
caveat?
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, you know, I think there are
7 some people on there
that -- and some people on the
8 outside both that
really think some of the evaluations
9 should be looked at a
little closer and what's on A and
10 what's on B.
And rather than reject this to let them do
11 it, I'm going to let
this move ahead and just hope that
12 they will take a
good, long look at what's where.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Okay.
14
MS. CASTILLE: Treasurer, it would be helpful if we
15 could have some idea
of how you would like to have it
16 reevaluated.
Because if we ask them to evaluate it under
17 the same criteria
that they have in the law and in the
18 rules, I'm not sure
they would come up with a different
19 vote --
20
THE GOVERNOR: Well, you'll have ample time to figure
21 that out by
March.
22
CFO GALLAGHER: Yeah, I'll give you -- you want an
23 example? I'll
be glad to give you one. You took, say, I
24 think it was Bear
Creek and moved it to B list. And the
25 reason was due to
funding constraints. Now later on you
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
90
1 recommend another
project, Pine Island Slough, as an A
2 project. And,
you know, what happened in between is a
3 pension fund now is an
option -- reserved an option to
4 purchase Bear Creek
last week. So we may well lose Bear
5 Creek because it was
on the B list, not the A list. And I
6 don't know where Pine
Island Slough is or why it was there
7 but that's an example
of why I'm saying I'd like them to
8 take a long look at
all of these and if there's something
9 that's about to get
sold, it shouldn't be on the B list.
10 It ought to be on the
A list if we're interested in it.
11
MS. CASTILLE: It's not necessarily that it's getting
12 sold. It's the
type of property that it is. The Bear
13 Creek property is
much -- mostly in pine plantation. 80
14 percent of it is in
pine plantation. And we have -- what
15 percentage of our
land is pine plantation? It's the most
16 land that we buy is
pine plantation. So we feel like --
17 the acquisition and
restoration council felt like there
18 was a large
representative sample of pine plantation in
19 our assets already
and the Pine Island Slough has much
20 more cypress domes
and wetland strands and endangered
21 species on it.
It has a higher value for endangered
22 species.
23
THE GOVERNOR: Well, Bear Creek Forest has been added
24 to the priority list,
not taken off.
25
MS. CASTILLE: It was put on -- originally they were
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
91
1 all added to the B
list and ultimately what the
2 acquisition and
restoration council did was to vote Pine
3 Island Slough onto the
A list.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. Well, that's my motion passed
5 and hopefully you'll
--
6
THE GOVERNOR: Well, it's going to pass right now.
7
CFO GALLAGHER: I don't want to get in the middle of
8 the process. I
don't think that's my job --
9
THE GOVERNOR: There's a second. Motion and a
10 second. Without
objection, the item passes. Which
11 includes by March
2005.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: It may come back to us which is the
13 normal. But
we're not changing anything. Just let them
14 know --
15
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you, Treasurer. Colleen, can
16 you tell me why a
piece of property is called Battle of
17 Wahoo Swamp?
Sounds like a movie.
18
MS. CASTILLE: I can't but it probably has some
19 historic
archeological value for a battle.
20
MR. GLISSON: It was the second Seminole Indian war
21 site, battle
site.
22
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you. Learn something new every
23 day.
24
MS. CASTILLE: Item 8. Item 8 --
25
THE GOVERNOR: By the way, one other thing in your
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
92
1 report which you
failed to mention and it's your job as
2 secretary of the
Department to shamelessly promote the
3 activities of your
Department when they do something good,
4 this summer,
attendance at state parks exceeded 19.2
5 million
visitors. And for the first time, state parks are
6 generating over half
their operating costs while
7 contributing over $600
million per year in local economic
8 benefits.
9
MS. CASTILLE: That's right, Governor. Thank you for
10 reminding me.
11
CFO GALLAGHER: And it's even going to be higher next
12 year because the
people that can't live in their houses
13 are moving into the
parks because the hurricanes moved
14 them out.
15
THE GOVERNOR: That's subject to fixing the parks.
16 There are quite a few
that have been damaged.
17
MS. CASTILLE: There have been. We have --
18
CFO GALLAGHER: No, I mean, they're going to be
19 moving from their
homes to the parks.
20
MS. CASTILLE: The funds that the park is -- the
21 parks are making
through their entrance fees covers about
22 55 percent of the
parks operations and that's the highest
23 that we have been
able to cover cost of our operations so
24 far.
Unfortunately the hurricanes have hit us hard as
25 well and I think we
have seven parks that will be closed
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
93
1 for at least another
year in the southern part of the
2 state and probably
three parks in the Panhandle that will
3 be as well.
4
THE GOVERNOR: I also want to make note of the fact
5 that your sister,
Division of Forestry or cousin, I'm not
6 sure if it's cousin or
sister or brother.
7
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Distant kin.
8
(Laughter.)
9
THE GOVERNOR: Distant? He just disowned you. Madam
10 Secretary, I think he
just disowned you. Stepcousin. Has
11 generated in excess
of $12 million in revenues from
12 forest-related
activities, returning $1.8 million to 12
13 mostly rural counties
which the forest revenues were
14 generated from and 2
million people have visited Florida's
15 31 state forests in
the past three years. And I also want
16 to commend the
Division of Forestry for the awesome job
17 they've done in
distributing -- setting up logistics with
18 the National Guard
for ice, water, food. They are
19 everywhere.
They got to be a little tired but they're
20 doing great.
21
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, if I could also let
22 the Board know since
we are on these matters, we are
23 assessing right now
through the Division of Forestry the
24 damage of the natural
resources to our state forests and
25 we will work with
other agencies if we are requested to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
94
1 make a determination
of those timber pieces that have been
2 lost. We know
it's in the millions. Of course as cheap
3 as pinewood has been
lately, we're not sure whether that's
4 in the hundreds of
thousands, but we think it's in the
5 millions. But we
do know there are a lot of trees down,
6 North Black Water or I
should say West Black Water was
7 devastated by the high
winds and they are taking an
8 assessment of just how
much was lost. But we think, based
9 on preliminary, we
think it could be up to 50 percent of
10 our big pines were
lost in that storm. So Ivan did a
11 pretty good bit of
damage to us there and there are other
12 state parks and
forests that are damaged pretty heavily.
13 We'll have to get
back to you on that loss.
14
THE GOVERNOR: All right. Thank you.
15
Next item.
16
MS. CASTILLE: Item 8 is consideration of an option
17 agreement to acquire
77.4 acres within San Felasco Hammock
18 project. The
subject property is being acquired for $1.7
19 million or 22,000 an
acre. This particular project
20 contains an Indian
village as well as a Spanish mission
21 site. And the
Spanish mission of San Francisco de Potano
22 was located at this
site. It also -- San Felasco Hammock
23 State Park is also
one of the parks where we have the
24 cracker ponies that
we've continued the blood line thanks
25 to the Bronson
family.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
95
1
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 8.
2
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
3
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
4 objection, the item
passes.
5
MS. CASTILLE: Item 9. This is a consideration of an
6 option agreement to
acquire 74.3 acres within Tiger Island
7 and Little Tiger
Island Florida Forever project in Nassau
8 County. This
particular site is believed to be the only
9 location in the United
States to have been under eight
10 different
flags. United States confederacy. The United
11 States, the
confederacy, the Mexican rebel flag --
12
THE GOVERNOR: The Mexican rebel flag?
13
MS. CASTILLE: Rebel flag, yes, sir.
14
THE GOVERNOR: Which rebellion?
15
MS. CASTILLE: The U.S. confederacy.
16
THE GOVERNOR: Thought you said Mexican rebel flag --
17
MS. CASTILLE: Oh, I'm sorry, yes, the Mexican rebel
18 flag for one day.
19
THE GOVERNOR: One day?
20
MS. CASTILLE: For one day.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: Six guys that are going into Mexico
22 to take over.
23
(Laughter.)
24
THE GOVERNOR: Got lost and landed in Florida. Okay.
25
MS. CASTILLE: This is an island parcel across from
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
96
1 the Fort Clinch State
Park and it consists of uplands that
2 have 1. -- have an
entitlement of one unit per five acres.
3 The particular
property is similar to some property we
4 bought last year which
was called St. Martin's Island.
5 And there is no
vehicular access but it is quite a
6 developable piece of
property in the area where it is --
7 where there is
upland.
8
CFO GALLAGHER: What are the other three flags?
9
MS. CASTILLE: The Patriots of Amelia Island,
10 England, and the
colonial flag of France and the green
11 cross of Florida.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: I think I got the seventh.
13
MS. CASTILLE: I'm not going to make it up.
14 (Laughter.)
15
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 9.
16
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
17
MS. CASTILLE: Item 10.
18
THE GOVERNOR: Hang on a second. There is a motion
19 and a second.
Without objection, the item passes. I'm
20 just reading about
this Louis Aude who in turn hoisted the
21 Mexican rebel flag in
1817. Are you counting all these
22 flags, really?
Go ahead.
23
CFO GALLAGHER: Once we own them, we got to hang all
24 those flags in a
row.
25
MS. CASTILLE: The Palm Beach -- oh, I'm sorry,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
97
1 that's deferred.
Item 10 is a deferral until
2 November 9th.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
4
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
5
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion to defer until November 9th.
6
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.
7
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion to defer until
8 November 9th and a
second. Without objection, the motion
9 is deferred.
10
MS. CASTILLE: Item 11 is an assignment -- is a
11 nature conservancy
assignment of an option agreement for
12 Yellow River Ravines
and a Florida Forever project, with
13 Department of
Agriculture and Consumer Services Division
14 of Forestry at the
Black Water River State Forest
15 Additions and
Inholdings. This is -- this subject
16 property is being
acquired for $5.4 million which is
17 98 percent of
apprised value, at $1153 per acre. This
18 particular property
is right near the Black Water Forest.
19 We believe that there
is not much damage to this -- to
20 this forestry and to
the timber here.
21
But it is currently -- we are going a recruise on the
22 timber as we speak
today. The option agreement before us
23 has $2 million in the
project for timber and we have the
24 option to be able to
go back and renegotiate if there was
25 significant damage to
the timber which would affect the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
98
1 price.
2
THE GOVERNOR: Well, heck, the Commissioner just said
3 he estimated that
there would be a 50 percent reduction in
4 timber. And this
is definitely -- this is in Santa Rosa
5 County, isn't it?
6
MS. CASTILLE: Yes.
7
THE GOVERNOR: So that would be a pretty good chance
8 that there is -- why
would you want us to --
9
CFO GALLAGHER: Why is it our fault?
10
MS. CASTILLE: Well, we would like you to approve it
11 and then give us the
ability to go back and negotiate with
12 the owner.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Downward, I gather.
14
MS. CASTILLE: Down.
15
THE GOVERNOR: We don't know what we are approving.
16 You have to bring it
back to us, is that what you are
17 saying?
18
MS. CASTILLE: Well, we would like to not have to
19 bring it back to
you. But if you'd like us to, we can.
20
THE GOVERNOR: I think you ought to negotiate their
21 deal and come and
then we would approve it the way we
22 always do with every
property. I'm missing -- unless
23 there is some time
sensitivity or uniqueness to this.
24 Someone's nodding
their head. Someone's got something
25 going on here.
Tell me.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
99
1
MS. CASTILLE: The contract allows for us to go back
2 and renegotiate if
anything happens to the timber, either
3 if there's fire or any
damage to the timber, it --
4
THE GOVERNOR: What happens if a hurricane hits it?
5
MS. CASTILLE: Same thing.
6
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. So why don't you go renegotiate
7 it, get a price.
Please come up. Can you say who you
8 are?
9
MR. BROWNE: John Browne, Division of Forestry. This
10 is an acquisition
we've been pursuing for four or five
11 years and I certainly
understand your concerns about the
12 storm. The
timber value here is made up premerchantable
13 pine. The
owners took most of the merchantable pine off.
14 What we're finding,
and the commissioner is exactly right,
15 on the naturally
forested areas we are losing up to 50
16 percent of the seed
trees that were there. On the
17 premerchantable pine
and the smaller pine that hadn't been
18 thinned, we're not
losing nearly that much. We don't
19 think we're going to
have a tremendous impact here.
20
We have a relatively short closing time frame on
21 this. What we
would really like to do is go through the
22 same process we do on
any acquisition. Is that from the
23 point that the Board
approves this agreement we would go
24 and reevaluate the
appraisal, reevaluate the timber,
25 reestablish the
appraised value, and move on to closing.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
100
1 And should there be
any substantial differences, notify
2 the Board.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I don't have a problem with
4 that, but I do have a
question.
5
MR. BROWNE: Yes, sir.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Did this property get wind damage, do
7 you know?
8
MR. BROWNE: Yes, sir, I'm should it has some wind
9 damage.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: How about some water flow, high water
11 damage?
12
MR. BROWNE: No, sir.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: Okay. It's way beyond that.
14
MR. BROWNE: It's just wind damage.
15
CFO GALLAGHER: I don't have a problem if you don't
16 go above the
price.
17
MR. BROWNE: No, sir, it wouldn't go above. We would
18 base our new prices
on whatever the adjusted appraisal
19 would be.
20
CFO GALLAGHER: Usually, you get 90 days to close
21 after -- what these
contracts usually say is 90 days to
22 close.
23
MR. BROWNE: November 30th, sir, drop dead date on
24 this one.
25
COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I'll move the motion with the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
101
1 idea that they will go
in and reevaluate and renegotiate
2 if necessary.
3
THE GOVERNOR: All right.
4
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
5
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second which
6 is -- basically, it is
the motion is Item 11 as presented
7 and a second.
Without objection, the motion passes.
8
Thank you.
9
MR. BROWNE: Yes, sir.
10
MS. CASTILLE: Item 12 is the reaffirmation of the
11 Board of Trustees'
delegations to the secretary of the
12 Department for
certain activities. The delegations were
13 granted to the
Department of Environmental Protection by
14 the Board of Trustees
and they've had a significant impact
15 on the efficiency of
Florida's land acquisition program.
16 Namely, that the
average time from appraisal to closing
17 has been reduced from
440 days to 235 days, an improvement
18 of 205 days.
19
The delegations are vital to how we operate in the
20 Department and allows
us to move quickly when we determine
21 that there is a
particularly valuable piece of property
22 that we would like to
move forward with and they also
23 allow us to move
quickly on appraisals and the whole
24 process down the
line. When there are sales of lands of
25 5 acres or less or
the Murphy Act lands, all of those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
102
1 lands no longer have
to come to the Board of Trustees for
2 acquisition
approval.
3
So there are a number of efficiencies under The Board
4 of Trustees that are
provided in the delegations and we
5 request reaffirmation
of those delegations.
6
CFO GALLAGHER: Now the lease -- I mean the deeds
7 still have to be
signed, don't they, on Murphy lands?
8
MS. CASTILLE: The deeds still have to be signed,
9 yes.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I'd like to make a motion here
11 if I could in regards
to Item 12. And that is, Governor,
12 heightened public
concern is often triggered for
13 determining whether
actions that are delegated come before
14 us. The
determination of heightened public concern often
15 rests with the
district directors, meaning we sometimes
16 miss the issues the
public would like us to see, and I
17 move that the
determination of heightened public concern
18 for proprietary
issues be elevated to the secretary or
19 deputy
secretary. I'd also like to see how delegations
20 are implemented and
moved that the reporting of actions
21 under delegation be
made quarterly rather than annually.
22 Because you keep a
list anyway. You might as well give it
23 to us.
24
MS. CASTILLE: Yes, we do.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: And what we're doing is making sure
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
103
1 that you all are aware
of what's happening out in the
2 field. And then
if you see something that should come to
3 the attention of the
Board, you can bring it to our
4 attention. My
concern is that there is things happening
5 out in the field that
may not even get up to you.
6
MS. CASTILLE: Are you referring to -- which district
7 directors, water
management district directors or the DEP
8 district
directors?
9
CFO GALLAGHER: If both of them are involved --
10
MS. CASTILLE: Well, the DEP district directors do
11 work with us and come
to us and come to me specifically on
12 controversial
issues. So if we're talking about water
13 management district
and what we delegate to the water
14 management district,
those ultimately are joint permits,
15 IRC permits that also
have uplands associated with them,
16 upland projects
associated with them. And the upland
17 projects are
generally what the controversy is for the
18 most part and that
gets us back into the issue of zoning
19 and much like the
administration commission and the
20 FLAWAC.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, like them. But they become
22 heightened public
concern and I think at least our staff
23 should know about
those. That doesn't mean it has to come
24 in front of the
Board, it's just a matter of letting us
25 know that those
issues exist.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
104
1
MS. CASTILLE: Okay. We can do that.
2
THE GOVERNOR: All right. There is a motion.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: And a second. Any other discussion?
5 Without objection, the
motion is approved. I guess that's
6 item -- you're also
including Item 12 in there?
7
CFO GALLAGHER: That is included. It's added to 12.
8
THE GOVERNOR: So that was an amended motion.
9
CFO GALLAGHER: Now this delegation is for what
10 period of time?
Is this an open-ended deal?
11
MS. CASTILLE: Yes.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Well, I think it ought to be other
13 than
open-ended. So I think we ought to discuss --
14
MS. CASTILLE: How about the end of your term as
15 treasurer?
16
(Laughter.)
17
THE GOVERNOR: Did you just say that out loud?
18
MS. CASTILLE: Your term as treasurer, sir.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: I see you want my turn to be over.
20
MS. CASTILLE: Now why would I want that? I worked
21 for you for 17 years
now.
22
THE GOVERNOR: Did you say that out loud?
23
MS. CASTILLE: Well, to the end of the term of the
24 cabinet members
because everybody's term ends on the same
25 thing, December 31st,
2005.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
105
1
CFO GALLAGHER: Wouldn't they want to look at it one
2 more time?
3
(Laughter.)
4
THE GOVERNOR: All right, so --
5
CFO GALLAGHER: How about a year from now we'll look
6 at it because during
that period of time we will have seen
7 what comes
through.
8
MS. CASTILLE: That's a most excellent suggestion,
9 sir.
10
THE GOVERNOR: Nice comeback, Colleen.
11
(Laughter.)
12
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Good cause item.
13
CFO GALLAGHER: We didn't finish that motion with the
14 one year.
15
THE GOVERNOR: We've already approved the -- well,
16 the motion as
amended. Now we're adding another feature
17 which is the request
to review the delegation altogether
18 in September of 2004
--
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Five.
20
MS. CASTILLE: Five.
21
THE GOVERNOR: Five. Halfway through the end of your
22 term and mine.
Okay. If you got all that, you're doing
23 pretty good.
24
MS. CASTILLE: Could we go back to Item 4, the City
25 of Palm Bay -- I'm
sorry, Item 3, the sublease with DHS.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
106
1
THE GOVERNOR: Sure.
2
MS. CASTILLE: We have looked at the two clauses in
3 the lease that talk
about the opting out of the sublessee
4 and it is much too
one-sided. And so we would like to go
5 back and change that
language. Would you prefer to
6 approve it with
language --
7
THE GOVERNOR: No.
8
MS. CASTILLE: Then we will defer this item until the
9 October --
10
THE GOVERNOR: And we should review all leases of the
11 Department of
Children and Families if this basic
12 fundamental thing of
State property being tied up for a
13 long period of time
where there is a service relationship
14 it should be ironclad
that if the contract is terminated
15 for whatever reason,
could be that there is a budget
16 shortfall, could be a
variety of reasons, that the lease
17 is cancelled as
well. I mean, my gosh.
18
So when you come for the approval, I would hope we
19 also could ask the
Department to come and say they
20 reviewed the other
leases that may be similar to this.
21
CFO GALLAGHER: See, one of the things that exist is
22 when we lease
property from someone there is a mandatory
23 clause in there that
says any budget -- the Legislature
24 has a final say if
they change the budget. This is the
25 opposite. We're
leasing it to somebody else for a dollar
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
107
1 a year and we're not
covered because it's them paying us.
2 There's no legislative
language in there and that's why
3 there is not. So
I don't really know what to do about
4 that, but I think it's
something that we -- we have a huge
5 property that's out
there for a buck a year until 2032.
6 Isn't that what it
was, something?
7
THE GOVERNOR: Fifteen years, I think.
8
MS. CASTILLE: Twelve years.
9
THE GOVERNOR: Twelve years.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: Thought I saw 2032 in this thing.
11
MS. CASTILLE: We will work with the Department of
12 Children and Families
to have them review their leases and
13 we'll also make the
change on this lease and bring it back
14 on October 26th which
is the next time we have an agenda.
15
THE GOVERNOR: Okay. Thank you. All right.
16
MS. CASTILLE: Item 13 is consideration of a request
17 to approve a ten-year
lease with four 10-year renewal
18 options to the
Department of Management Services. It is
19 for 40 acres of
property which is commonly known as the
20 Doral property in
Miami-Dade County. The property has
21 been used for --
adjacent property has been used for the
22 building of -- a
building for South Com whose presence in
23 Miami generates in
excess of $107 million to the local
24 economy.
25
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
BOARD OF TRUSTEES -
9/21/04
108
1
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
2
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second. Any
3 discussion?
Without objection, the item is passed.
4
MS. CASTILLE: Great.
5
THE GOVERNOR: Thank you all very much.
6
MS. CASTILLE: Sir, on Item 3, we need a motion.
7
THE GOVERNOR: To defer?
8
MS. CASTILLE: A motion to defer until the 26th.
9
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion to defer until October 5th.
10
MS. CASTILLE: October 26th.
11
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion to defer until
12 October 26th and a
second. Without objection, the item is
13 deferred. Thank
you.
14
MS. CASTILLE: Thank you, sir.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION -
9/21/04
109
1
THE GOVERNOR: State Board of Administration.
2
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes.
3
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: There's a motion and a second.
5 Without objection, the
item passes.
6
Item 2.
7
MR. STIPANOVICH: Is a request for approval of fiscal
8 sufficiency of an
amount not exceeding 100,000,000, State
9 of Florida full faith
and credit, State Board of
10 Education, public
education capital outlay bonds.
11
GENERAL CRIST: Motion.
12
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
13
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
14 objection, the item
passes.
15
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 3 is a request for approval of
16 fiscal sufficiency of
an amount not exceeding 363,825,000
17 State of Florida
Department of Transportation turnpike
18 revenue bonds.
19
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
20
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
21
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
22 objection, the item
passes.
23
MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 4 is request for approval of
24 fiscal sufficiency of
an amount not exceeding 12,500,000
25 State of Florida,
Florida Education System, University of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION -
9/21/04
110
1 South Florida parking
facility revenue bonds.
2
GENERAL CRIST: Motion on 4.
3
CFO GALLAGHER: Second.
4
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
5 objection, the item
passes.
6
MR. STIPANOVICH: Final item. Request for approval
7 of fiscal sufficiency
of amount not exceeding 3,850,000,
8 State of Florida,
Florida Education System, University of
9 South Florida parking
facility revenue bonds.
10
CFO GALLAGHER: Motion.
11
GENERAL CRIST: Second.
12
THE GOVERNOR: Moved and seconded. Without
13 objection, the item
passes. Thank you, Coleman.
14
(Thereupon, the proceedings concluded at 11:35 a.m.)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION -
9/21/04
111
1
2
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
3
4 STATE OF FLORIDA )
5 COUNTY OF LEON )
6
7
I, KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court Reporter, certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at
the time and
9 place therein designated; that my shorthand notes
were
10
thereafter translated under my supervision; and the foregoing
11
pages numbered 1 through 110 are a true and correct record of
12
the aforesaid proceedings.
13
14
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee,
15
attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative
16
or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel
17
connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in
18
the action.
19
DATED this 1st day of October, 2004.
20
______________________________
21
KRISTEN L. BENTLEY, Court
Reporter
Notary Public
22
850-878-2221
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS,
INC.
.
Cabinet
Affairs
