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THE CABINET STATE OF FLORIDA _____________________________________________________
The
above agencies came to be heard before Reported by: SANDRA L. NARGIZ
Registered Professional Reporter
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
JIM SMITH
ROBERT F. MILLIGAN
BOB BUTTERWORTH
CHARLIE CRIST
TOM GALLAGHER * * *
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
1 Approved 7
1 Approved 9
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
1 Approved 30
1 Approved 31
1 Approved 32
STATE BOARD OF TRUSTEES
1 Deferred 47
FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT INFORMATION BOARD
1 Approved 128
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
1 Approved 160 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 169
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:20 a.m.) 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We need a motion on the 4 scheduled meetings of the Governor and Cabinet for 5 the year 2003. 6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the schedule. 7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. 9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: (Inaudible.) 10 You might complain about the Executive 11 Branch. 12 Moved and seconded without objection, the 13 item passes. 14 I can't wait to see that. 15 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would never complain 16 about the Executive Branch. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, you will. You are in 18 the Senate, you will. You will drink the Cool 19 Aide like the rest of them. 20 The next Cabinet will be held Tuesday, 21 September 10, one year from -- one year and a 22 day less when we were at the Hermitage, the SBA 23 offices where our Cabinet was. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Which is also the Bond
25 Finance's office.
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
2 the minutes. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance. 4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Item 1 6 is approved. 7 MR. WATKINS: Item 2 is a resolution 8 authorizing the competitive sale of up to 9 $10 million in parking facility revenue bonds for 10 Florida Atlantic University. 11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion. 12 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 14 objection, the item passes. 15 MR. WATKINS: Item 3 is a report of award and 16 the competitive sale of $100 million in PICO 17 bonds. The bonds were awarded to the low bidder 18 at a true interest cost of 44.752. 19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Move. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 22 objection, the item passes. 23 This is the lowest interest rate? 24 MR. WATKINS: We went back and looked in
25 1985, Governor, and this is the lowest rate in the
2 at a point in time where interest rates are very 3 attractive. So if you are going into debt, now is 4 great time to be borrowing money. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's on the record, Ben. 6 It's a policy shift. 7 MR. WATKINS: As far as refinancing 8 activities, we are -- we continually review all of 9 the particular candidates that are economically 10 feasible to refund, but we are challenged right 11 now because of the Federal Reserve's active 12 engagement through monetary policy and lowering 13 the federal fund rates creates a situation for us 14 in refunding called negative arbitrage. 15 That's simply the difference between the 16 rate that you are borrowing at and the rate you 17 can reinvest at until you can call the bonds; 18 and that's adversely impacting our ability to 19 achieve the normal level of savings that we 20 would like to see. 21 So there are not as many candidates that 22 are available for refinancing, but we are 23 actively engaged in evaluating the feasibility 24 of those on an on-going basis.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
2 and Motor Vehicles. 3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes. 4 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 6 objection, item 1 passes. 7 MR. DICKINSON: Item 2 is the accomplishments 8 for this fiscal year past on performance contract 9 for the executive director. 10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move the item. 11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Any 13 discussion? 14 MR. DICKINSON: I would like to point out, 15 Governor, we did accomplish all of our goals, some 16 of them more than others. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Need to raise the goals. 18 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, sir, we have in this 19 next item, by the way. Submission of the 20 2002-2003 performance contract. 21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move. 22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Any 24 discussion?
25 Without objection, the item passes.
2 format for a new performance contract, and we 3 interpolated and integrated a lot of the numbers 4 and goals set by our legislative process through 5 our PD-squared and the long-range budget planning 6 process. 7 Now for the fun of the evening, I would 8 like to introduce three new tags we have. 9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah, we need more 10 tags. 11 MR. DICKINSON: New College, President 12 Michalson is here, if he can come up. New College 13 would be the first one. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning, Mr. President. 15 PRESIDENT MICHALSON: Good morning. I don't 16 mean to run you off here. 17 MR. DICKINSON: See if that will set up for 18 you. 19 PRESIDENT MICHALSON: Governor Bush, at lunch 20 a couple of weeks ago you, with all the 21 presidents, you asked me how the New College 22 football team was doing, and I am proud to stand 23 before you today and give the same answer: We 24 remain undefeated. I suspect that will be the
25 case for sometime.
2 College, I think it's a moment to celebrate for 3 all the citizens of our state because of the 4 way New College represents the wide range of 5 options available to our citizens seeking 6 higher education. 7 We are distinctive in a lot of ways. And 8 one way is the way we are producing leaders in 9 the State of Florida. As I hope most of you 10 know, Congressman Lincoln Diaz-Balart as is his 11 brother, Jose, which leads to the question 12 whatever happened to Mario? 13 Senator Bob Johnson is chairman of our 14 board; he would have loved to have been here 15 this morning. Among other things, he is the 16 proud grandfather of a third-year student at 17 New College, spent most of Sunday afternoon 18 accompanying her move into her new dorm space. 19 He sends his best regards. 20 Final thing I would like to point out is 21 that as small as we are, I think New College is 22 a case study in one best practice, which is 23 public/private partnership in supporting higher 24 education. Since we went public in '75, as the
25 residential liberal arts honor college of the
2 College Foundation has brought over a hundred 3 million dollars to our campus, a lot of that in 4 the form of state matching funds which are, of 5 course, triggered by the generosity of private 6 donors. 7 I think our ability to leverage those 8 private monies is even stronger now that we are 9 independent and look forward to a lot more 10 success stories on that front. 11 Finally, the entire campus would like me 12 to extend our thanks to you, Governor Bush, 13 with the appointment of such a strong Board of 14 Trustees, beginning with our chairman Bob 15 Johnson. 16 Things are going fine in the governance 17 area. This is no time to change governance in 18 higher education. We feel very strongly about 19 that. You heard all the presidents underscore 20 that feeling, Governor Bush. 21 And no one feels more strongly about that 22 than us at New College because of our good, 23 warm, strong working relationship with our 24 Board of Trustees.
25 Final word of thanks to Senator Lisa
2 and to Paul Sanfield of Fred Dickinson's shop 3 helping us get the colors right. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir. You are the 5 only, I think out of the 1,364 license plates in 6 the State of Florida, you are the only one that 7 actually has Latin on it, except for the Marine 8 plate. 9 PRESIDENT MICHALSON: Well, mean and lean 10 folks know how to stick together. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. 12 MR. DICKINSON: Governor, do we need a 13 translation of that in Latin? He briefed me on it 14 earlier. I think you got it. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think it's probably 16 Florida's New College or New College Florida. 17 MR. DICKINSON: New College Florida. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: What a scholar I am. 19 MR. DICKINSON: Do we want to vote 20 individually or take them collectively at the end? 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we can probably take 22 them collectively. I doubt there is going to be 23 massive opposition to this. 24 MR. DICKINSON: The second tag is the United
25 We Stand and Senator Buddy Dwyer, one of the
2 Scott Case; and then finally Diane Kramer I think 3 wants to say a few words. 4 SENATOR DYER: Governor, Members of the 5 Cabinet, it is a pleasure to be with you today. 6 This is the first Cabinet meeting I have ever 7 attended; hopefully there will be a few more in my 8 future. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good TV ad, by the way. 10 SENATOR DYER: Thank you, Governor. 11 It's really a pleasure to be here. You 12 have before you the final design for the United 13 We Stand license plate which was a plate that 14 was created by the legislature last November. 15 And a portion of the proceeds from the 16 sale of this plate will go to the Rewards for 17 Justice Program which, in turn, will turn over 18 a hundred percent of the money raised to the 19 U.S. State Department's Rewards for Justice 20 Program which will be used for reward payments 21 in the capture of known terrorists around the 22 world. 23 The remaining dollars will be used for 24 airport security here in Florida.
25 Scott Case, who is one of the co-founders
2 just a minute about his efforts and that of his 3 group. 4 I just want to conclude my remarks by 5 saying we are quickly approaching the first 6 anniversary of those terrible attacks. And 7 while it is important that we remember that day 8 vividly and the lessons we have learned as a 9 result of those attacks, it's also important we 10 moved forward to ensure that September 11 is 11 never repeated. 12 I am happy and proud that Florida was the 13 first state to pass legislation creating a 14 license plate that allows all Floridians to 15 voluntary contribute to the War Against 16 Terrorism. 17 As a result of the work for Rewards for 18 Justice Fund, four additional states have 19 passed similar legislation. Today my hope is 20 you will approve the design and the plates will 21 be on the shelf by September 11. Thank you. 22 Scott Case. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Scott. 24 MR. CASE: Good morning, thanks for having me
25 here.
2 days following the September 11 attacks my 3 colleague, business colleague and I, were 4 watching like so many others about the attacks 5 on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon; and 6 we established the Awards for Justice Fund as a 7 way for every American to contribute to the 8 fight against terrorism. 9 Within weeks, thousands of Americans had 10 contributed to our fund, which is a unique 11 partnership between the U.S. State Department 12 and a private, nonprofit organization, The 13 Rewards for Justice Fund. 14 In December, Secretary Colin Powell 15 reintroduced the Rewards for Justice Program 16 that's been run by the State Department for the 17 last 18 years, and stated it was one of the 18 most effective tools in the War Against 19 Terrorism and that our fund was an excellent 20 opportunity for every American to participate. 21 As Senator Dyer pointed out, Florida was 22 the first state in the Union to create this 23 specialty tag. And thanks to his leadership, 24 Governor Bush, and the legislature, we now have
25 this plate available before September 11.
2 states have followed Florida's leadership in 3 creating specialty license plates, including 4 Virginia, South Carolina, Connecticut and most 5 recently New Jersey. We have legislation 6 pending in several other states as well, and we 7 expect a dozen or so more over the next 18 8 months. 9 And really as thousands of Floridians 10 began to register their plates in September, we 11 are hoping that Florida can also lead the 12 country once again by being the first state to 13 sell 100,000 license plates. 14 And given some of the indications from the 15 Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles 16 and some of the other license plate programs in 17 past, we think that's very achievable. 18 Echoing Senator Dyer's comments, nearly a 19 year ago our nation was shocked by horrific 20 attacks, unimaginable. Americans were 21 frustrated, angry, and many of us felt very 22 helpless. 23 But now, thanks to the work of the people 24 in this room, I want to point out this is one
25 of the first times in the history where private
2 contribution towards a government program. 3 The Rewards for Justice Fund is that 4 vehicle. And by putting one of these license 5 plates on your cars, it not only sends a strong 6 message, but it also engages in a very specific 7 way in the Fight Against Terrorism. 8 So what has been accomplished today in 9 Florida is profound, and I don't want that to 10 be lost; so I want to congratulate everyone 11 here; this is quite an achievement and I want 12 to thank you. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir. 14 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a question. I 15 have a question here. I would assume that this 16 plate, that a lot of people who may want it also 17 as a front plate. 18 Is there a way, even if it's not 19 numbered -- I don't think you want "sample" on 20 it, but if you have something on it -- just 21 somebody might have another license plate on 22 their car, it still has a year to go but they 23 can still come in and buy a front plate to put 24 on the front of the car, if there is a way of
25 doing that?
2 that authority several years back, so we can 3 market those. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: How would it look? Would it 5 have the same plate? 6 MR. DICKINSON: It will be a sample tag; it 7 will say "sample" on it. 8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Couldn't it be 9 something other than that? 10 MR. DICKINSON: We can probably pick 11 another -- that's a case of first impression for 12 us. 13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: "Sample" just doesn't 14 get it; maybe come up with something better than 15 that, it would be better to leave it blank. 16 MR. DICKINSON: Dorothy would have liked 17 "sample." 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: God bless you. How many 19 people remember her? 20 MR. DICKINSON: That was a blast from the 21 past. We'll work on that and see what we can do. 22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: USA, anything, but 23 please not "sample." 24 MR. DICKINSON: We'll be working on that.
25 There was some question --
2 If you sell a tag like this, how much would you 3 sell it for? 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Same price? 5 MR. DICKINSON: Same price, less the tax. 6 $25. 7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: For $25, and a dollar 8 or two to produce it? 9 MR. DICKINSON: $10 for the tag itself, the 10 25 goes to the group, then $2 service fee and the 11 10-dollar tag fee. 12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Wait a minute now, this 13 is the one for the front we are talking about? 14 MR. DICKINSON: Yes. 15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So you are still 16 charging all those fees? 17 MR. DICKINSON: No, we are not charging taxes 18 for the vehicle. We are charging everything but 19 the tax for the vehicle. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: If you don't have to 21 have one, why are we charging anything but $25 22 plus what it costs to make it? 23 MR. DICKINSON: That's exactly what we are 24 charging.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: How much does it cost
2 MR. DICKINSON: The statute says 10 bucks. 3 You get $2 a year -- 4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Then the statute says 5 you do what with the $10? 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Fund his programs. 7 MR. DICKINSON: Put it in our trust fund. 8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But see, that's not -- 9 you got enough in your trust fund from tags people 10 have to buy. 11 MR. DICKINSON: No, sir, we do not, but 12 that's another issue for another day. 13 Let us do a little work on this, come back 14 to you with a better game plan. 15 There were some questions about the groups 16 that are getting this money and where the money 17 is going. I am told a hundred percent of the 18 money generated by the sales of the tags goes 19 for where it is intended; there is zero 20 administrative cost. 21 Scott, you want to speak to that, maybe 22 some, accountability. 23 MR. CASE: When we established the fund in 24 September of last year, we committed to fund the
25 operations and administration of the fund through
2 money, whether it be donated through our website 3 or whether it be given to us via check or whether 4 it would be through the sale of a specialty 5 license plate, all is earmarked as reward payments 6 and is used and administered by the State 7 Department's Rewards for Justice Program. We are 8 administered as any regular 501(3)(c) and our 9 books are opened to the public, et cetera. 10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I do have a question. 11 I think it's great that we do the Rewards For 12 Justice Fund. I have a hard time figuring out why 13 we ought to be -- that we ought to be selling tags 14 to enhance airport security. 15 MR. CASE: That would be a question for the 16 legislature. Senator Dyer. 17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: We got all the security 18 I can handle at these airports right now. 19 SENATOR DYER: That was a compromise that was 20 made on the floor of the Senate in terms of other 21 people who wanted to support the tag, but also 22 wanted to make sure that some of the money stayed 23 here in Florida. So that was an amendment that 24 was added to the bill during the course of the
25 process.
2 it. Thank you. 3 MR. DICKINSON: Diane Kramer would like to be 4 heard. 5 MS. KRAMER: Thank you. I am just a shorty. 6 It's a pleasure and an honor to be here, thank 7 you. 8 I created and actively pursued the United 9 We Stand license plate endeavor following the 10 terrorist attacks last September as an 11 incentive to lead our country forward and give 12 America a chance to team up to fight terrorism. 13 While emphasizing our patriotic commitment 14 through a united stronghold. 15 I would not have achieved the success that 16 we did without the help of all citizens 17 throughout the state and the media and, of 18 course, Senators Dyer and Debbie 19 Wasserman-Schultz. 20 And though I lost my job as a result of 21 the terrorist attacks, I put this on the 22 forefront; this was my priority, no matter, and 23 I am proud of all the work that's been done. 24 And I want to thank everybody here for their
25 help.
2 endeavor to cross all borders around the United 3 States, and while continuing to merge America 4 through a united wave of recovery and on going 5 perseverance. And I just wanted to say: Let's 6 keep this endeavor moving forward and across 7 our country. Thank you. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. Thank 9 you for being here. 10 MR. DICKINSON: All right. That's pretty 11 much the serious nature. Now it's golf time, 12 Governor. 13 We have a number of representatives here 14 and Ronnie Brook is organizing this, so this is 15 Ronnie Brook Production. He is fresh off 16 shooting down in Miami Beach for the movie, 17 what was the movie you are shooting? 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Bad Boys Two. 19 MR. DICKINSON: Fresh from that, he's here in 20 Tallahassee to put this production together. 21 Ronnie, I really appreciate, I know there has been 22 a lot of back and forth with you, and I appreciate 23 this. I know Governor and many Members of the 24 Cabinet enjoy this sport, this game, this
25 business, and I am pleased to present the golf
2 I believe James Kiely is the first speaker 3 on this. He is the golfer whose silhouette 4 appears on the tag, as a matter of fact. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: So much for being a secret 6 here. 7 MR. KIELY: I brought the tag just in case 8 they didn't bring one, because of the 1,165 tags 9 there are, there are none with a golfer on them. 10 So there you go. 11 Governor and distinguished Cabinet 12 Members, this my first Cabinet meeting, and I 13 wanted to thank you for the opportunity to be 14 here today. 15 We are thrilled that this tag has finally 16 got to this stage. I know it's been a two-year 17 process and we lost out last year because of a 18 transportation package. It was part of a 19 bigger package. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sorry about that. 21 MR. KIELY: Unfortunately there were some 22 issues that we understand you didn't agree with. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: You don't have to bring it 24 up. Move on.
25 MR. KIELY: But it passed in a stand-alone
2 I wanted to thank Ron Brook again for his 3 efforts in lobbying this program and this tag. 4 I want to thank the sponsors of this bill, 5 Senator Ron Silver and Representative Roger 6 Wishner who sponsored the bill and got it 7 through from bill to law. 8 I want to thank the transportation, 9 Department of Transportation, Dave Russell, 10 Representative Russell and Henry Como who 11 helped us a lot. Sherry Slepin, Paul Stanfield 12 and Fred Dickinson, who are going to help us 13 now create these tags. 14 And I did want to recognize individuals 15 that are here today from an organization such 16 as the PGA Tour, Richard Bowers, organizations 17 such as the First T that was started by the PGA 18 Tour, the LPGA Tour, PGA of America and the 19 Master's of Augusta, members of Augusta. That 20 is Joe Lewis Barrow, Jr. who is executive 21 director of this facility -- this organization; 22 also Andrew Crabtree is here representing the 23 Florida State Golf Association, which is an arm 24 of the United States Golf Association.
25 So there are some powerful companies that
2 are golfing companies. And on the onslot of 3 Tiger Woods' success as a junior golfer, there 4 has been an explosion of junior golfers and 5 certainly in the State of Florida with the golf 6 courses we have. 7 The problem being is there is not 8 operational dollars to sustain some of these 9 programs. So that's the purpose and intent of 10 this tag, is to provide much needed funds to 11 sustain existing and create new programs. 12 And talking to Joe Lewis Barrow just 13 recently this morning, he mentioned they have 14 an aggressive plan throughout -- First T 15 programs throughout the State of Florida, which 16 would expose a lot more junior golfers to the 17 program. 18 I am a product of junior golf. I went 19 through the Dan Amateur Golf Association in 20 1963 with Charlie DeLucca. I later became a 21 member of the PG Tour and later became a member 22 of the PGA of America, the class now the 23 business sector is marketing and advertising to 24 executives, and I still use golf; it's touched
25 my life, it's a game of a lifetime. I use it
2 So we just want to touch a lot of young 3 individuals in this state, give them an 4 opportunity to play where they couldn't afford 5 that opportunity in the past. And this plate 6 is going to do that. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Commissioner. 8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Just for everyone to 9 know, this money that's going for the Junior Golf 10 is going for both the young men and women who are 11 in the Junior Golf Program. 12 MR. KIELY: Yes, and Kids with Disabilities, 13 but I had to introduce Charles DeLucca. He is the 14 Godfather of Junior Golf. 40 years of his life 15 has been dedicated to Junior Golf and today is his 16 birthday. 17 MR. DeLUCCA: I just want to say thank you; 18 and I am 40 years old, I want you to know, today. 19 And I want to introduce my son, his birthday is 20 tomorrow. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: You all want some pictures? 22 MR. DICKINSON: Yes, if we could. 23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the tags. 24 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded, without
2 (Picture taking.) 3 MR. DICKINSON: I know it's late, and I am 4 finished, but can I do one personal thing and call 5 Paula Stanfield. This is who put all these tags 6 together for us. And I would just like a round of 7 applause for Paula. 8 (Applause.) 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's your position on the 10 tag business? You think we ought to raise 11 standards, lower standards or keep them just as 12 they are? 13 MS. STANFIELD: No, comment. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. You had your chance. 15 I think we need -- I think we need to -- my 16 personal opinion -- and I really do want to get 17 your views on this -- I think it ought to be the 18 same way to get a tag, but a little bit higher 19 standard of sustainability. My own personal 20 opinion. Maybe we'll look at the legislative 21 process to change that. 22 MS. STANFIELD: We'll be reviewing it. Thank 23 you much. 24
25
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move the minutes. 3 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, the item 5 passes. Item 2. 6 MR. ZINGALE: The Department of Revenue 7 provides certified training for property 8 appraisers, their staff, and anyone that wants to 9 do mass appraisal fee appraisal work. 10 We are under contract with the 11 International Association of Assessors to 12 provide this training. There is really no 13 other competitors out there. It's a paid for 14 itself business, they pay tuition, it covers 15 the cost of the program. This is to extend the 16 contract out five years. 17 Request for permission to go forward with 18 the contract. 19 SECRETARY SMITH: Move. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any discussion? Moved and 23 seconded. 24 Without objection, it's approved.
25
2 MS. SAFELY: We have two items. Item 1 is the 3 appointment of Angela P. Williams to the Education 4 Practices Commission, replacing Deborah 5 Orr-Castro, for a term ending September 30, 2004. 6 Item 2 -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hold on a second. 8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Moved. 9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Wait a second. Moved and 11 seconded. Without objection, the item passes. 12 MS. SAFELY: Item 2 is the appointment of 13 Deborah Shepard to the Education Practice 14 Commission, replacing Diane Porter, for a term 15 ending September 30, 2006. 16 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Moved. 17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 19 objection, the item passes. 20 Thank you, Robin. 21 22 23 24
25
2 Adjudicatory Commission. 3 MS. TINKER: Good morning. Item 1, recommend 4 approval of the minutes of the June 12, 2002 5 meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Move. 7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 9 objection, the item passes. Item 2. 10 MS. TINKER: Item 2, recommend approval of 11 the proposed final rule establishing the Bartram 12 Springs Community Development District in the City 13 of Jacksonville. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion? 15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Moved. 16 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Any 18 discussion? 19 Without objection, the item passes. Thank 20 you, T. 21 22 23 24
25
2 MR. STRUHS: Good morning. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning. 4 MR. STRUHS: Nice tie, Governor. 5 I would like to recommend deferral on 6 item 1 to October 8. 7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move. 8 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 10 objection, the item passes. 11 MR. STRUHS: Item 2, this is going to go very 12 quickly, but we do have a presentation for you on 13 item 2. 14 It has become a tradition and, in fact, 15 it's a requirement of law here in Florida that 16 we provide you an annual update on how we are 17 managing the Florida Keys National Marine 18 Sanctuary. And we have got four individuals, 19 Fritz Wettstein from our office, Billy Causey, 20 who is the federal administrator, Nancy 21 Klingener and David White. 22 And they will go very quickly but we would 23 like to give you a little update on the 24 tremendous progress we made over these last
25 several years in managing the Florida Keys
2 It's a great federal/state partnership. 3 Fritz, are you ready? 4 MR. WETTSTEIN: Yes, we have to power up the 5 computer and we'll be ready to roll. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: I did a site visit this last 7 week and the sanctuary from my perspective looked 8 pretty good. 9 MR. STRUHS: Glad to hear that. 10 MR. WETTSTEIN: Good morning, my name is 11 Fritz Wettstein. 12 The department has prepared a five-year 13 evaluation of the sanctuary management plan in 14 cooperation with our partners in the National 15 Marine Sanctuary Program and NOAA. 16 We have also prepared an annual report. 17 For five years we have been coming to you with 18 this annual report. 19 Five years ago, after six years of plan 20 development, you all approved the sanctuary 21 regulations to be in effect within state 22 waters. This was done through a resolution 23 that contained 14 conditions stipulating 24 actions that NOAA and the state must take in
25 order for the regulations to be in effect. And
2 regarding a fear of a federal takeover. We can 3 report now that there is widespread public 4 support. 5 We can also report that all the conditions 6 of the sanctuary -- of the your resolution have 7 been satisfied and fully complied with. 8 As we are going to see, the management 9 plan has been successfully implemented and it 10 is effective. One of the conditions was that 11 we prove to you all that this management plan 12 and regulations, such as the no take zones, 13 actually work; that we have to come back in 14 five years and demonstrate the effectiveness or 15 there is kind of an up and down on the next 16 step of the sanctuary program. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to undo the fuzzy 18 stuff there, Bruce? You want to get a faster 19 computer? 20 MR. WETTSTEIN: Something that's not in my 21 slide, but may as well share with you, there has 22 been a recent study by economists of the reefs of 23 Southeast Florida, including Palm Beach, Broward 24 Dade and Monroe Counties. In that survey they ask
25 people what they thought about the Marine
2 vote, fish and dive on the reef supported the 3 marine reserve concept and marine reserves in the 4 Keys. So we think we've come along way. 5 Talked about the resolution. 6 This was one of our management plan 7 activities. We have installed over 400 8 moorings on the reef. By the diver or 9 fishermen tying up to these buoys, they are not 10 dropping the anchors on the coral and damaging 11 the coral. 12 The T motion has been a very successful 13 activity, providing information and outreach, 14 not just in a brochure in a shop somewhere but 15 actually on the water, at the reef itself, 16 providing assistance. 17 Law enforcement: We have moved from 18 having seven law enforcement officers covering 19 the Keys to 17 with the assistance of the 20 Office of the Governor and the Florida 21 Legislature. 22 We have implemented a no-discharge zone 23 that was initiated Year 2000 at the request of 24 Governor Bush.
25 The Tortugas is a success story, as you
2 Tortugas Ecological Reserve, and now we are 3 enforcing it, making cases and we are managing 4 it, putting moorings out there and managing 5 access. 6 We have seen a reduction in the numbers of 7 major ship groundings on our reefs. We believe 8 this is in part attributed to innovative 9 technologies, such as RACON beacons which warn 10 the ships of the reef's track on their radar 11 screens. 12 As I said before, the scientific 13 monitoring demonstrates the effectiveness of 14 the marine reserve concept and sanctuary 15 regulations. We are finding more fish, such as 16 yellowtail snapper; we are finding more and 17 larger lobster in these protected areas. 18 Long-term water quality monitoring shows 19 that overall, the water quality is good in the 20 Keys, but still we continue to identify 21 pathogens in our nearshore waters. 22 Long-term monitoring of coral shows that 23 after years of decline, we are starting to see 24 stable trends.
25 Likewise, seagrasss are stable. We have
2 between 5- and 600 boat groundings in the Keys 3 each year. From those we are making a lot of 4 cases. 5 With the funds we are recovering from 6 those cases we have restored five large and 7 nine small vessel-grounding sites in the Keys 8 just in the past five years. 9 Now I would like to turn it over to St. 10 Joe's superintendent, Billy Causey, to give you 11 an update on where we are on the management 12 plan revision. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good, morning, Billy. 14 MR. CAUSEY: Good morning, Governor, and 15 Honorable Cabinet. Thank you very much for this 16 opportunity. 17 One year ago we came before you with the 18 fourth year review of the sanctuary and the 19 status at that time. We told you that we were 20 in the process of conducting scoping meetings 21 throughout the Keys in regards to getting input 22 from the public on the revision of the 23 management plan. 24 I want to point out that in the years
25 past, when we held those scoping meetings, we
2 meeting in the Keys is an incredible event; 3 it's something to celebrate sometimes. 4 But definitely when we held these scoping 5 meetings, it was a very positive environment. 6 We had a lot of people coming out to give us 7 good input. 8 We took that input and then we used our 9 Sanctuary Advisory Council, which is a group of 10 stakeholders, 21 people put together through a 11 process that involves the Governor's office, 12 DEP, the U.S. Department of Commerce, Secretary 13 Don Evans and my bosses; and that advisory 14 council helps us enormously in directing us and 15 advising us on the implementation of the 16 management plan. 17 They helped us review the comments from 18 the public, and then they helped us develop the 19 early part of the draft management plan. 20 In October of 2001, the advisory council 21 met with us several times and gave us direct 22 input into the draft plan. We have now taken 23 that information and are drafting the plan. We 24 have turned it over to an editor writer, and we
25 plan to have that draft revised plan on the
2 of the year, January of 2003. 3 When we started through the process, we 4 did not have any proposed regulatory changes. 5 Any changes that we would make would come to 6 you for approval prior to implementation. 7 However, two things have come up on the 8 state side that we want to be consistent with 9 in federal waters, and that is the no discharge 10 zone that we would want to extend into federal 11 waters and also the Fish and Wildlife 12 Conservation Commission has a ban on fish 13 feeding in state waters that we would want to 14 make consistent in federal waters. 15 Those are the only two things. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Billy, can you explain fish 17 feeding to me? 18 MR. CAUSEY: Well, there has been an issue of 19 people feeding fish for attraction purposes. And 20 it has created some concern on the part of 21 fisheries' managers and others throughout the 22 state and this is large scale. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Chum? 24 MR. CAUSEY: Chum is a different matter. You
25 can still chum. This is hand-feeding fish under
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: I might have some opposition. 3 MR. CAUSEY: -- to attract them. No, we are 4 not talking about chumming. 5 So we plan to have that plan out sometime 6 right after the first of the year. Any 7 regulatory changes or proposals will come back 8 before you as the Governor and Cabinet. 9 Now I would like to introduce one of our 10 sanctuary advisory council members, Nancy 11 Klingener, who is with the Ocean Conservancy is 12 here to speak to you briefly. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning, Nancy. 14 MS. KLINGENER: Good morning, Governor and 15 Cabinet Members, it's a real honor to be here 16 representing the Sanctuary Advisory Council. 17 As Billy told you, it's 21 people. All of 18 us are people who live in the Keys and it's a 19 real diverse group of stakeholders, including 20 recreational and commercial fishermen, 21 scientists, conservationists, tourism industry 22 representatives, some citizens at large. And 23 as any diverse group in the Keys, it's pretty 24 unusual to get a unanimous consensus but last
25 week we unanimously passed this resolution
2 sanctuary. And I will just read the hight 3 points of it. 4 Whereas the United States Congress passed 5 the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary and 6 Protection Act to protect the marine resources 7 of the Florida Keys, and President George H.W. 8 Bush enacted this legislation into law by his 9 signature on November 16, 1990; and whereas the 10 Governor and Cabinet of Florida adopted the 11 Sanctuary Management Plan on January 20, 1997, 12 thus including into the sanctuary the state 13 territorial waters that comprise approximately 14 65 percent of the 2900-square nautical miles of 15 state and federal territorial waters within the 16 boundaries of the sanctuary; and whereas the 17 board approved the designation of the Tortugas 18 Ecological Reserve in state territorial waters 19 on April 24, 2001, which has been cited as the 20 model for ocean governance and the protection 21 of ocean wilderness around the world; and 22 whereas the Sanctuary Advisory Council, as 23 representatives of citizen of the Florida Keys, 24 publicly acknowledges the many successes of the
25 sanctuary to protect marine resources and also
2 support by our constituents for the sanctuary 3 and its management program, therefore, be it 4 resolved the Florida Keys National Marine 5 Sanctuary Advisory Council does hereby commend 6 the Governor and Cabinet of the State of 7 Florida, sitting as the Board of Trustees, for 8 their commitment, leadership and support for 9 the protection of the unique, natural and 10 cultural resources of the Florida Keys National 11 Marine Sanctuary. 12 Thank you very much. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. Thank for coming 14 up. 15 MS. KLINGENER: And I would like to introduce 16 my boss, David White, the regional director of the 17 Ocean Conservancy. 18 MR. WHITE: Good morning, Governor, Members 19 of the Cabinet. My name is David White, I am 20 regional director of the Ocean Conservancy, 21 formerly known as The Center for Marine 22 Conservation. The Ocean Conservancy is America's 23 largest not-for-profit conservation organization, 24 dedicated solely to protecting our oceans.
25 Through science-based advocacy and public
2 inspire and empower citizens to help protect 3 healthy marine echosystems, marine wildlife and 4 to ensure sustainable fish populations for this 5 and future generations. 6 Although we are headquartered in 7 Washington, much of our work takes place in 8 regional and field offices along our coasts 9 around the country. 10 Our Southeast Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico 11 regional office is located in St. Petersburg. 12 And we maintain a field office in Key West. 13 You just met Nancy Clinger who does our 14 work on the Florida Keys National Marine 15 Sanctuary. 16 In the 1980s we advocated for the creation 17 of the Florida Keys Natural Marine Sanctuary, 18 and since that time we worked to help shape its 19 management plan, its governance and its 20 boundaries; and Nancy, of course, sits on the 21 Sanctuary Advisory Council. 22 We are also a member, an organizational 23 member of the Everglades Coalition, and I serve 24 as the team leader for the Coalition on Florida
25 Bay and Florida Keys issues.
2 nationally, and over 10,000 members in the 3 State of Florida, I would like to take this 4 opportunity to thank you, Governor Bush and the 5 Cabinet, for your vision and leadership in 6 protecting the natural, cultural and economic 7 resources of Florida Keys' National Marine 8 Sanctuary and for your unanimous vote last year 9 approving the Tortugas Ecological Reserve. 10 We believe the Tortugas Ecological Reserve 11 will not only serve as a worldclass model for 12 how to protect marine resources and critical 13 habitats, but also as a world class example of 14 how dedicated people, representing a diverse 15 range of interests and involving government 16 agencies and government staff at all levels can 17 work together to arrive at a consensus to leave 18 a legacy for future generations. 19 It was an extraordinary effort and one we 20 hope that can be duplicated in other parts of 21 the state and other parts of the country to 22 ensure that our children and their children 23 will be able to experience the wonderful 24 diversity and abundance of marine life that
25 past generations have always taken for granted.
2 living laboratories free from human 3 exploitation but open to human exploration, 4 your vision and leadership will allow future 5 generations the opportunity to study and enjoy 6 a true ocean wilderness experience. 7 As a token of our appreciation I would 8 like to present you with a plaque acknowledging 9 your efforts to protect marine resources of the 10 Florida Keys. 11 The inscription reads: Presented to the 12 Florida Governor and Cabinet in appreciation 13 for your leadership and vision for protecting 14 Florida's Coastal and Marine Resources in the 15 Florida Keys, National Marine Sanctuary and 16 Tortugas Ecological Reserve, August 27, 2002. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, David. Thank you 18 very much. 19 David, is that the end of the -- 20 MR. STRUHS: That's the end of the item 21 number 2, which provides you that five-year 22 management review and report. 23 We do need a vote just asking you to 24 accept the report that you just received.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Moved.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The motion is to accept the 3 report. Moved and seconded. The motion passes. 4 Can I go back to item 1. I want to ask 5 the minutes, there were no minutes. The motion 6 was to defer. 7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I move to defer to 8 October 8. 9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. There is a motion 11 and second to defer. Without objection, it 12 passes. 13 MR. STRUHS: Moving on to item 3 then, I got 14 four bad scenarios for you to consider, and you 15 get to chose which one you want to pursue. 16 We are recommending a settlement agreement 17 on this case, which you heard on at least two 18 other occasions. The settlement would cost the 19 State of Florida $900,000, which is the 20 appraised value plus settlement costs. 21 There is also the option to litigate, and 22 there are three potential outcomes in the event 23 we would litigate. 24 The first would be sort of a worse case
25 scenario where it would cost the state in the
2 dollars. 3 There is sort of a more likely outcome, 4 which according to our risk analysis shows 5 settlement of about $2.5 million; that would be 6 in the event that we lost the inverse 7 condemnation claim. 8 There is a third outcome, of course, and 9 that is we would litigate and win, in which 10 case we would owe $0. 11 The issue there, of course, is what 12 happens is we may win that, but then we get 13 into the issue of trespass, and the owner there 14 could perhaps and likely would pursue a case 15 under trespass. 16 Estimated costs for the past trespass 17 would be about a million dollars and it puts 18 the state in the position of ongoing payments 19 going forward until the Rodman Dam might 20 eventually be removed and the land restored. 21 So those are the scenarios. Given that, 22 our best legal advice is to approve the 23 settlement that's proposed in this agenda item. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, was the property --
25 this property was purchased -- was not fee simple
2 equal to the fair market value; we purchased this 3 once in effect? 4 MR. STRUHS: Our predecessors chose to enter 5 into an easement. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: The purchase price for that 7 easement was equal to fair market value for the 8 property? 9 MR. STRUHS: Right. Reminds me of the 10 fellow -- 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- same property again? 12 MR. STRUHS: Right. It's like the fellow who 13 goes to Avis and rents the car and he keeps the 14 car for a year and pays the rental; and then when 15 it comes time to turn the car in, he says: I paid 16 you enough to pay for the car. Don't I own it 17 now? And according to Avis, the answer is no. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's right; so what you are 19 saying is you are disavowing what our 20 predecessors -- 21 MR. STRUHS: Yes, I am. 22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Why we would have done 23 it, easement for fair market value, which is 24 absolutely ridiculous?
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: In the event that the river
2 relates to the river? It's under water right now? 3 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir, a portion of it is. 4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Where would it sit? 5 MR. STRUHS: It would sit along -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Along the river or what? 7 MR. STRUHS: On the river. 8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: We own, under the river 9 is owned by the state; and so what we did is we 10 flood it by putting a dam in it. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All the flooded property will 12 be along the river. You have a lake, a pond, a 13 thing on your front view. 14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And it's going to go 15 down. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's going to go down, there 17 is going to be property along the rivers. 18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: These people own the 19 property all the way down the river, so you filled 20 it and flood their property; we paid them for that 21 lease. Now we are going to buy it again. And 22 when it goes down, they are not going to own the 23 land on the river anymore; we are. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I got that part as long as
25 it's along the river. It's not all property --
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: There is -- right now 3 there is some high uplands, there is a river, 4 where the pond is. When it goes down, the river, 5 that's the dam -- the property the state owns gets 6 bigger; the item gets bigger and we still own the 7 river bottom. 8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, this is 9 something that's happened more than once in the 10 State of Florida. It's like the example David 11 gave. 12 If I go rent a duplex for four or five 13 years and decide I like it so well that I am 14 going to buy it, the rental monies -- they 15 really don't count under the legal terms and, 16 therefore, you end up having to pay full price 17 for the duplex when you decide to buy it. 18 That's what happened here. The rental 19 agreement or the lease agreement on the 20 property has got us into a situation where all 21 we were doing is leasing the availability of 22 that property, now you are going to have to pay 23 for the property. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Here's the thing that
25 bothers me. This lease agreement was basically
2 was going to be there forever. When it got -- the 3 barge canal got deauthorized -- which I helped 4 push the bill through on that and finally getting 5 our good Congressman who put it in the first 6 place, took him over in a helicopter, showed him 7 that there really wasn't a barge canal and it was 8 never going to get finished and finally agreed to 9 deauthorize it -- we blew it big time, because 10 deauthorizing it, at the same time should have 11 turned that property easement over to the state 12 which was already paid for. 13 And it didn't happen. So all of a sudden 14 the courts in Florida have said: Oh, well 15 okay, look, that easement doesn't exist anymore 16 because Cross-Florida Barge Canal is 17 deauthorized. Therefore, these people get 18 their property back. 19 And so not only do they get their property 20 back, but we owe them rent from the time since 21 the barge canal was deauthorized because we 22 have been using it because the water is sitting 23 on it. 24 Not only that, if you want to buy it, you
25 have got to pay the now current fair market
2 being flooded. 3 So this is the worse of all possible deals 4 for the state and the best deal in the world 5 for Peter Miller, et al. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: General? 7 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: David, how many other 8 parcels are similarly situated like this? 9 MR. STRUHS: I would have to call on some 10 assistance here to answer that question, but I do 11 know there have been at least two other similar 12 situations where the Cabinet has agreed to similar 13 types of settlement. 14 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Those two have not gone 15 through the court system yet, have they? 16 MR. STRUHS: They have not. 17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, my 18 legal staff advises me that the other two cases, 19 we may be in a better position to be able to get a 20 different result in court. And I would ask, 21 David, that you also use my eminent domain section 22 to assist your lawyers on that. 23 MR. STRUHS: I am sorry, on the -- 24 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I would offer my
25 eminent domain staff to also assist you with the
2 in a better situation with those than we are on 3 this particular case. Even though I have to hold 4 my nose and vote for this thing, I feel we have no 5 choice. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we have a legal question 7 on the first two purchases? Is that -- I thought 8 we purchased -- 9 MR. STRUHS: Let me introduce Christine 10 Guard. 11 MS. GUARD: Good morning. We have done about 12 six other litigation settlements involving the 13 Rodman Reservoir area. Y.C.K., Ray Miller 14 McClure, Joe Miller, Ardrenn Suttlemyre and 15 another, Douglas and Barbara Miller. 16 We also did some straight acquisitions in 17 this area to avoid lawsuits. 18 I think six items, including Life of the 19 South and the Connor settlement which was a 20 subset of that, have come to the Trustees in 21 the past. We have two other cases pending in 22 the area; one involving Life of the South, 23 because of some issues with the settlement 24 there; and then another one on an adjacent
25 parcel, which is located right next to that red
2 That parcel is what we refer to as the St. 3 Johns Community College Trust Fund parcel. 4 That one is also in active litigation at this 5 point in time, as is the yellow box number 24 6 on your screen. 7 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: The question I have: 8 Were reverter clauses on all of these properties 9 or only on some of the properties, so that if the 10 canal was not finished, that the reverter back to 11 the original owners took place? 12 MS. GUARD: Most of the easements in the 13 Rodman area contained reversionary language. They 14 contained for the barge canal operation 15 maintenance purposes only. There were some fee 16 simple acquisitions in this area where we were 17 able to condemn fee simple title. 18 In this particular case, as in a number of 19 these because they were originally part of a 20 larger parcel, we were only able to condemn an 21 easement and we took that all they way up to 22 the Supreme Court level. 23 SECRETARY SMITH: Other than the three or 24 four situations you mentioned, do we have more of
25 these coming or does that wrap it up?
2 virtually at the end, especially in the Rodman 3 area, with those two. 4 SECRETARY SMITH: That's good. 5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: This case went all the 6 way to the Supreme Court, or did it not? 7 MS. GUARD: No, sir, the Miller case that we 8 are here on today is still in circuit court. It 9 has not gone up. 10 There have been decisions that have gone 11 up dating back to the 1980s and even before 12 that that extinguished the flowage of 13 easements, which is what puts us sort of where 14 we are today; the Mainer case, which I cited 15 for you in the materials, did go all the way up 16 to the Florida Supreme Court. 17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So we are settling this 18 before it moves any further? 19 MS. GUARD: Yes. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You want to go ahead 21 and refresh my memory on why we ought to do that? 22 MS. GUARD: The court has already ruled on 23 this particular case in partial summary judgment, 24 the flowage easement is extinguished, meaning we
25 no longer have the right to have our water sitting
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: What would happen if we 3 condemn just the part where our water is sitting? 4 MS. GUARD: That would be virtually all of 5 this particular parcel. We also have some 6 structures built by the Army Corps of Engineers 7 outside the taking line, including a concrete 8 bathhouse structure and part of a campground that 9 we have been occupying. 10 So virtually all of his parcel has been -- 11 would be a part of the taking claim. 12 As the Secretary has indicated, we have a 13 number of litigation options, and there is 14 shortcomings and weaknesses and good points and 15 bad points to each of those, which I would 16 greatly prefer obviously not to get into in 17 public because of the damage it could do to our 18 case. 19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: For clarification, if 20 I could, Governor, to make sure that Commissioner 21 Gallagher does understand. 22 There were other cases similar to this 23 that higher courts have ruled in favor of the 24 landowner in previous cases, and that's why
25 this one is moving in that direction, even
2 If they move it up, they will probably use the 3 other court cases to settle this in the same 4 way, is that correct? 5 MS. GUARD: Certainly they would use the -- 6 we have had some positive outcomes, but we haven't 7 litigated the trespass issue because you all 8 settled all those cases sort of as we went along 9 on those issues. 10 But for instance, the Mainer case, Ocala 11 manufacturing in the late '70s, which was a 12 little bit different issue but the Mainer case, 13 is a very, very similar issue with this one and 14 went up to the Florida Supreme Court. So there 15 have been substantial litigation in this area. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? 17 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I move that we go with 18 I believe it was option two, David, was the one 19 you were saying? 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think the option was to 21 purchase. 22 MR. STRUHS: My recommendation is the agenda 23 item, which is the settlement. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Item 3, settle.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I move that we settle.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Any 3 other discussion? Without objection the item 4 passes. 5 MR. STRUHS: Item 4 -- I have to complement 6 Christine who has does a remarkable job. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, absolutely, Christine, 8 she brought clarity where there was none. 9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: For some reason she 10 appears very relieved that we did this. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was for the tie comment, 12 Secretary. 13 MR. STRUHS: We are very proud of some of the 14 new legal recruits we have been able to attract to 15 state service. Christine is one of them. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: May you stay 59 years. 17 MR. STRUHS: Item 4. 18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer. 19 MR. STRUHS: To September 10, please. 20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. The 22 motion is to defer. Moved and seconded until 23 September 10. Without objection, it passes. 24 MR. STRUHS: Item number 5, recommend
25 approval of this item.
2 get two and a half million dollars of federal 3 money to help with our restoration efforts at 4 Estero Bay and Rookery Bay. 5 The only string attached to that federal 6 money is to have on the record here that we 7 will actually use the land for what we said we 8 would use it for, which is conservation. 9 We recommend approval. 10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5. 11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 13 objection, the items passes. 14 MR. STRUHS: Item 6 is pretty much a 15 housekeeping item. 16 This is something you have dealt with 17 before. These are a few minor easements that 18 need to be picked up for the work on the 19 Florida Gas Transmission Line. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move item 6. 21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 23 objection, the item passes. 24 MR. STRUHS: Item 7, recommending approval of
25 this item.
2 owner, because of a storm, lost their utility 3 connection. This item will allow the family to 4 restore their utility -- 5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on item 7. 6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 8 objection, it's approved. 9 MR. STRUHS: Item 8 we are seeking a deferral 10 until October 8. 11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer until 12 October 8. 13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 14 MR. STRUHS: Item number 9, this is sort of a 15 complicated transaction, but I can boil it down 16 for you. 17 It's simply a fact where the Department of 18 Transportation has built a reststop, travelers' 19 reststop that is owned, the underlying land is 20 owned by the Board of Trustees. This would 21 transfer title to the Department of 22 Transportation. We recommend approval. 23 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Moved. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Seconded.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without
2 MR. STRUHS: Item 10, we are simply seeking 3 your acceptance of our five-year plan for the 4 Florida Forever Program and to approve the Florida 5 Forever Priority List. 6 We do have a couple of speakers who want 7 to speak specifically to one of the many items 8 that are on that Florida Forever Priority List. 9 And I believe they are being represented by 10 Mr. Harry Durham from an organization known as 11 the River Ranch Property Association. And I 12 Would introduce Mr. Durham, if he is available, 13 please. 14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I need to, if I can, 15 to indicate here -- and I notice some of the 16 properties that are on this, and I believe one of 17 them, the Big Bend Holopaw area, it could be that 18 properties that are now under the ownership of my 19 brother and I could be a part of that Big Bend 20 Area, and I was asking for clarification -- that 21 is a possibility, I want to make sure that even 22 though this is not a purchase situation, that 23 that -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: You own so much land, you
25 don't know?
2 they are considering in the Big Bend Area. The 3 Big Bend Area is quite a big area but -- 4 MR. STRUHS: Can we assist? Are we all set? 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: He wanted to clarify that he 6 may have a conflict. I don't know what that 7 means; either you do or don't. 8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Don't know. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are going to recuse 10 yourself? 11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Yes. I don't have to 12 recuse myself on this, but if it comes up later, I 13 have to. 14 MR. STRUHS: Governor, on the issue of time 15 management, if you can give us some advice in 16 terms of how much time you would like to spend on 17 this? 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many speakers? 19 MR. STRUHS: We have Mr. Durham. How much 20 time would you require? 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Wrong answer. 22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: How about three minutes 23 per person? 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many people are here to
25 speak? You are just here to represent the larger
2 If you speak for three minutes, that would 3 be great. The key to this is not to repeat 4 what someone already said, so if you would just 5 add value to the conversation, it will be 6 wonderful. We welcome you here, and you came 7 all the way, so you are going to speak. Go 8 ahead. 9 MR. DURHAM: Good morning, Governor and 10 Troops. My name is Harry Durham. I represent 11 River Ranch Property Owners Association. And this 12 is my partner, Scott Fitzpatrick. He is also the 13 attorney representing the group. And we are 14 basically trying to get the Bombing Range Ridge 15 area off the A list, and we'll try and explain why 16 as quickly as we could. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. 18 MR. FITZPATRICK: Thank you, distinquished 19 Governor, Cabinet and Aides, it's a pleasure to be 20 here today before you. I am with the law firm of 21 Kiefner & Renaldo out of the Tampa Bay area, and 22 the River Ranch Property Owners Association is not 23 only my client, but I am a third generation 24 property owner within River Ranch -- within the
25 River Ranch property, which is included in the
2 that property. 3 My grandfather purchased this property 4 originally in 1978 or '79. My father owns 5 property, and I own property in there. 6 Just to go over briefly into the history, 7 the original grantor of this property was Golf 8 American Corporation, GAC, who went into 9 bankruptcy in the late '60s. GAC developed an 10 idea, and they marketed this property where you 11 could go into this property, buy a minimum of 12 an acre and a quarter -- some people bought 13 much more -- and you could utilize the 14 remainder of the property for recreational 15 purposes. 16 After GAC's bankruptcy, the River Ranch 17 Property Owners Association was formed and has 18 successfully managed this property for 19 approximately 30 years. 20 There are currently 3500 current active 21 members of the River Ranch Property Owners 22 Association who own anywhere between 1.25 acres 23 and 10 acres each. And then we have several 24 thousand inactive members for, who reasons of
25 being elderly or they may live out of state,
2 yearly basis and enjoy the active membership. 3 Each year the RRPOA spends over $250,000 4 protecting, managing and conserving all of the 5 properties located within River Ranch; not to 6 mention the value of thousands of volunteer 7 hours that are spent each year. And this is 8 done by a private, nonprofit corporation, the 9 River Ranch Property Owners Association, at no 10 cost to the state. In addition, we pay 11 property taxes, so the state receives benefit 12 from the taxes that are paid. 13 I would like to show you here on the list 14 we have a map of -- this property is divided 15 into two sections, what I will call the north 16 section and the south section. It's divided by 17 Highway 60. 18 This is the northern section of the 19 property. We haven't shown you a map of the 20 southern section because we are not sure that 21 it's even at issue. We have learned that the 22 focus is on purchasing the northern section. 23 We have many more members that own 24 property in the southern section exponentially
25 than we do in this section. But as you can see
2 northern section. As you can see this map, the 3 orange color will show the Avitar's property, 4 which we believe is a willing seller in this 5 project. The green property will show you -- 6 it's belongs to a fellow by the name of Ervin 7 Wheeler. 8 The white pieces of property that you will 9 see inbetween we argue are unwilling sellers, 10 they are members of our association, and they 11 have no desire to sell this property. They 12 have managed it effectively for 30 years now 13 and they have done a good job. 14 That is also reflected -- we have a report 15 here today for the Cabinet, if anyone would 16 like to see it. It's a report that was 17 conducted by the University of Florida and 18 several other universities around the country. 19 I believe the report date spans from 1994 to 20 1998 on certain species of endangered 21 woodpeckers, and they will -- the report shows 22 that River Ranch has actually done a better job 23 conserving this property, because there are 24 more of these animals in River Ranch than they
25 are in the Bombing Range, which is our
2 by federal biologists. 3 I think that's speaks to the care these 4 people have given and dedication these people 5 have given this property for 30 years. 6 Also, we have systematically every month 7 sent hundreds of forms of people who own 8 property within this project asking their 9 property to be removed from this list. I have 10 a copy here for the anyone in the Cabinet that 11 wishes to look at it. And in the box here we 12 have about a thousand forms signed by unwilling 13 sellers who wish to have their properties 14 removed from this list. 15 This project as it stands today is 16 unmanageable. We have been arguing against 17 this since 1998. Governor, we were before you 18 in February of 2000; so you may be somewhat 19 familiar with our problem. 20 This project wasn't feasible in 1998, and 21 it's not feasible here in 2002. 22 We ask the Cabinet to remove this project 23 from the list once and for all and let the 24 River Ranch Property Owners Association
25 continue in managing, protecting and conserving
2 Also, I like to share with the Cabinet, we 3 have letters from several law makers within the 4 State of Florida who have written letters in 5 support of River Ranch, who have investigated 6 the matter, and who have concluded that they 7 have done a good job taking care of this land. 8 This land is in no danger of development. 9 It is in no danger whatsoever, which is the 10 intent of the Florida Forever Project and the 11 Coral Program, as I understand it. 12 In addition -- if you will, Harry, if you 13 can share with them copies of our -- I would 14 like refer you to just a couple of points in 15 these letters. 16 We have a letter from Senator Pruitt, it's 17 dated July 31, 2002. In his letter Senator 18 Pruitt states: Over the last 25 years, the 19 members of this association have been able to 20 maintain River Ranch's natural condition while 21 also keeping it open for public recreational 22 purposes. To say the members of the 23 association have been good stewards of the land 24 would be a considerable understatement. This
25 land is not threatened by development and is
2 state. I would urge you to resist efforts for 3 the state to purchase this property. 4 Representative Putnam also wrote a similar 5 letter which we attached here. And just one of 6 the high points in closing on Representative 7 Putnam's letter he states: It is inexplicable 8 to me why this is even considered for purchase. 9 In addition, I would like to raise, 10 pursuant to Florida Statutes 259.1097(b)(2): 11 Before a project is to even be considered by 12 the Council to be included, it is to meet 13 certain requirements. One requirement is as 14 follows: Proof that property owners within any 15 proposed acquisition have been notified of 16 their inclusion in the proposed project. 17 I submit to this Cabinet that the property 18 owners within this property have not been 19 notified individually by the DEP or anyone else 20 with the State of Florida or the Nature 21 Conservancy. 22 We have brought with us today many 23 unwilling sellers who are also members of River 24 Ranch, who I would like, if I may, have you
25 stand, please.
2 project and would like to continue the 3 protection and the management they offered this 4 land for 30 years. 5 I would submit to you that the statutory 6 requirements for this project to even be here 7 today have not been met because adequate notice 8 has not been given. And there are thousands of 9 landowners out there who did not even know we 10 are here today and cannot even show to voice 11 opposition because statutory notice was simply 12 never given. 13 And for these reasons, we would ask the 14 Governor and the Cabinet to strike the Bombing 15 Range Ridge Project from the 2002 Forever List. 16 Thank you. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you. Do you have other 18 people that would like to speak? 19 MR. DURHAM: I wanted to say a few things, if 20 I could. 21 Let me explain a little bit about the 22 River Ranch Property Owners Association. It's 23 a family-oriented group, and it's passed on 24 from generation to generation. And in this
25 group here we have people that are third
2 coming here. It's utilized, it's respected, 3 it's taking care of. 4 We also have our treasurer who can tell 5 you how much it costs to have the trash picked 6 up, for our fire department that's in place, at 7 no cost to the state whatsoever, the food plots 8 that we put out there. 9 This agreement for purchase, when you buy 10 a piece of ground in that area originally, came 11 from the Gulf America Corporation, and in their 12 rules and regulations, when you purchase this 13 piece of property, it states clearly that it 14 is -- I have everything here in case anybody 15 would like to review it, but for expediency's 16 sake, it states that it is nonbuildable land. 17 The county will not issue a permit to put a 18 permanent structure in this area. 19 As far as access to the rest of the 20 property, regardless of who owns it, it is in 21 the deed restrictions that if, in fact, if any 22 one of you wish to belong to the property 23 owners association, it would flow something 24 like: Okay, what can I do, what can't I do?
25 You must adhere to all state and federal laws.
2 The Fish and Game Commission. You hunt 3 when it's hunting season. You can camp year 4 round, where the other facilities that are 5 utilized by -- that are controlled by the state 6 now factor that out. You cannot go to these 7 facilities year round. You cannot go horseback 8 riding whenever you want. You can't go 9 camping. 10 There is some lady is here -- Angel, I 11 don't know if she is here, Paula, she is not 12 any relation to Mr. Powell there is an A after 13 the name. She has been there since -- if she 14 could come up just for a second and explain her 15 point of view. She takes her grand kids there 16 now. These are year-round activities. At any 17 point in time you can come down on a weekend, 18 and you will find 500 to a thousand people. 19 This is not -- I don't like to be referred 20 to as the club or the hunt club or whatever. 21 It is not. This is a year-round facility 22 maintained by private ownership. 23 And by the way -- I get speech 24 impediments -- if, in fact, you wanted this
25 piece of property, then you can't build on it.
2 for your camp site, especially during any 3 hunting season because we don't govern the Fish 4 and Wildlife. They set the seasons; we do not. 5 If, in fact, you wish to utilize it, you 6 have access to everyone else's property, which 7 has been a bone of contention to a few people. 8 How can you grant access to someone's property 9 that you don't own? 10 Because in the original deed restrictions, 11 it states that if, in fact, you buy this, it 12 gives -- it affords you the opportunity to use 13 it all. And that's etched in stone. 14 So irregardless of what you own, you can 15 use it all. And when they get this, they got 16 it. Go ahead. 17 MS. PERALLA: Thank you for your time. I am 18 a River Ranch property owner. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could you state who you are 20 for the record. 21 MS. PERALLA: Angel Peralla, I am from 22 Bartow. I have five children, six grandchildren, 23 and we take them to River Ranch. We don't 24 consider River Ranch a club; we consider it a
25 family.
2 gatherings where we have taken our children, 3 our grandparents, our great grandparents; we 4 played games with our children. 5 Some of the property owners don't have the 6 money to take their children to Disney World, 7 Epcot. This is their vacation area. We taught 8 our children how to protect the wildlife. We 9 taught our children how to protect the 10 wetlands. 11 This is very close to our heart; this is a 12 family; this is not a club. This is family and 13 we are all tight. That's why we are here. 14 Where are we going to take our children if 15 we don't have that? I don't want my children, 16 or my grandchildren, have that taken away from 17 them. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming up, 19 ma'am. Anybody else like to speak? 20 MR. STRUHS: I think Mr. Fountain from the 21 Nature Conservancy would also like to speak to 22 this issue. 23 MR. FOUNTAIN: Governor, Cabinet members, 24 thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
25 Keith Fountain with the Nature Conservancy at
2 I am going to start real quickly and do a 3 brief history of this project that seems to be 4 revisiting you on occasion. 5 As was mentioned previously about five 6 years ago, this project was put on the Call 7 List and year after year ranked fairly highly. 8 Then the Florida/Federal Program came on board 9 ranked it as an A ranked project. 10 About two years ago I believe the property 11 owners association referred to December of 12 2000, they showed up at the Governor and 13 Cabinet meetings when this list was for 14 approval. 15 And since that time, I am a little 16 disappointed we are back here today because 17 since that time, the Conservancy has taken 18 great steps to work with the property owners 19 association, in consultation with them, and the 20 state managing agencies, the Division of 21 Forestry and Division of Wildlife Commission, 22 to design an acquisition project which you see 23 before you right now to come forward to the 24 Governor and Cabinet later this year.
25 We have worked in an area north of state
2 design an acquisition area that will be as 3 least disruptive to their activities as 4 possible. 5 You will note the area -- let me explain 6 to you what you see before you here. This map 7 has been prepared in anticipation of an agenda 8 item that you will probably see in a couple of 9 months when the contract with the Nature 10 Conservancy comes before you for consideration. 11 What we have proposed to DEP and the 12 managing agencies, we sat down with the board 13 of directors of the property owners 14 association, is that the Conservancy buy the 15 land within the red dashed line. What you see 16 there is there are three major owners in that 17 block that have all been colored green with 18 anticipation of our contract coming in and us 19 having those three under contract. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you show me State Road 60 21 on this? 22 MR. FOUNTAIN: State Road 60 is running 23 diagonally. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
25 MR. FOUNTAIN: It's about another section or
2 What we have proposed to DEP and agencies 3 to do is this. The Conservancy will come to 4 you with a contract for us to buy the three 5 major landowners and the individual landowners, 6 those that we can, within this block of land. 7 I am a little disappointed, there was a bit of 8 misrepresentation earlier in their presentation 9 in that this is the case: The white blocks you 10 see there, the white and yellow, are 11 third-party ownerships. 12 Now in my meetings with the hunt club they 13 indicated to me and they have seen this map 14 that they have -- their members own 31 lots in 15 this area. We are now talking about a project, 16 we are talking about 500 lots per section of 17 land, and they own 31 lots in the project area. 18 We have -- 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: 31 on -- in the -- of all the 20 properties that are inside the red dashed -- 21 MR. STRUHS: Right. 22 MR. FOUNTAIN: Right, these are 23 one-and-a-quarter acres lots, we have under 24 contract with Preservation of Natural Florida --
25 which is Mr. Wheeler that you heard about -- about
2 Lightsey family over 200 acres; and we negotiated 3 with Avitar for the purchase of almost 400 acres. 4 We have also done a mass mailing, Governor, to the 5 individual owners out there. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: There are more than 31 lots 7 depicted in this picture here, though. Who are 8 the other property owners, if they are not people 9 that are represented here today? 10 MR. FOUNTAIN: They are individuals that we 11 mailed to. This map was prepared about two months 12 ago, and the yellow squares are at that time 13 people that have responded back to our offer to 14 purchase with deeds or other written 15 correspondence indicating they accept our offer. 16 And I think the number of yellow squares, 17 there is about 150; that number is up closer to 18 200 right now with continuing responses. So 19 all of the third-party owners are not in 20 opposition to this project. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am sorry. There are a lot 22 more white lots than yellow lots, and if there are 23 only a small number of -- I assume those are the 24 white colored lots -- that are represented here
25 today, only a small number are inside this area,
2 MR. FOUNTAIN: Third-parties. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: They may not want to sell? 4 MR. FOUNTAIN: They may not. We do not know 5 which 31 lots are owned by members of the hunt 6 club or the property owners association. They 7 showed us their map with them colored in, but they 8 did not let us reproduce that. 9 But the individuals that you see -- and I 10 am getting all types of responses. I am 11 getting responses from people that accept our 12 offer; I am getting responses from people that 13 say it's not enough right now; I am getting 14 e-mail responses. 15 But the point is is that they represent a 16 group of people that is in the vast minority in 17 this project. I did a little number 18 calculating this morning. I looked at the 19 people like Mr.Wheeler and Avitar that want to 20 sell; I look at the 2500 names that have 21 responded to me on postcards that they are 22 willing sellers which I provided to your office 23 yesterday. And the area contemplated by those 24 owners is over 15,000 acres.
25 Your partners in this project, the South
2 County, have already bought over 4,000 acres. 3 That puts us more than halfway home in a 4 project of about 37 or 39,000 acres, but I 5 think the point is that -- 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am sorry. Go ahead. I cut 7 you off. 8 MR. FOUNTAIN: They represent 31 people that 9 are in this acquisition area which we have gone to 10 great lengths to design in consultation with them 11 that doesn't uproot the camps and the weekend 12 retreats that you are hearing about today. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: It doesn't? 14 MR. FOUNTAIN: It doesn't. They are heavily 15 concentrated in this region right here, along the 16 lake. We have cut that out of our acquisition. 17 Even though you will see the blue in this map is 18 owned by Avitar. Avitar wants to sell that land, 19 but we are not buying that land. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: The nice lady that came all 21 the way up here from Bartow said this was a 22 family -- something important beyond just owning 23 property, that her kids and grandkids share the 24 outdoors with other people, that have a common
25 purpose, they are not going to be impacted by
2 MR. FOUNTAIN: No. In fact, Governor we have 3 represented to the hunt club -- to the property 4 owners association in conversations with them -- 5 under the scenario I am describing here, the 6 Conservancy is going to buy this land and have a 7 contract with the state to transfer it to you all 8 a couple years down the road. We are going to try 9 to consolidate as best as possible. 10 I represented to them to work with them 11 make sure they have dedicated access into that 12 region where their camps are. 13 We are not buying south of State Road 60, 14 out of deference to the large number of camps 15 they have down there. 16 The other thing that's occurred is -- this 17 is working in consultation with the property 18 owners association -- is that the major 19 landowner, Mr. Wheeler, has agreed to work with 20 members of the property owners association that 21 are in the project area to exchange them out of 22 the project. That way they maintain an 23 ownership interest, they maintain their 24 membership, but they are out of the
25 conservation area that the state is purchasing.
2 guys? 3 MR. DURHAM: Yeah, should I go up? 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please. 5 MR. DURHAM: I have a few things. 6 The 37,000 acres that is referred to, of 7 which allegedly we only have 31 parcels, that 8 30 some thousand acres is the south side also. 9 I do not see that 37,000 acres reflected on 10 that north side, if I am not mistaken. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: How about the 31 parcels 12 inside the red? 13 MR. DURHAM: There are more than 31 parcels. 14 If you will note, the white parcels also are 15 inactive members. We have 3500 active members 16 approximately, and we have approximately another 17 5,000 that are inactive because they no longer 18 attend or go to the activities, so forth and so 19 on, they also have property in that area and are 20 nonwilling sellers. 21 But I wanted to reiterate one thing that 22 was done -- that was said at the Cabinet aides 23 meeting last week. 24 Ms. Armstrong had stated that the first
25 acquisition would be on the north side, and
2 the south side. 3 So it's not limited to the north side as 4 what's being portrayed here. It is inclusive 5 of all north and south side on their agenda and 6 on their future plans. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: South side of what, State 8 Road 60? 9 MR. FITZPATRICK: Governor Bush, I would like 10 an opportunity to refute many of the points that 11 was just made by the Nature Conservancy, but I 12 understand we have a brief amount of time, so I am 13 going to keep it very, very short. 14 Governor, I do not have an undergraduate 15 degree in management or state administration or 16 anything relevant, but I think even a lay 17 person can look at the Nature Conservancy's map 18 here and look at the white spaces and look at 19 the yellow spaces and ask yourself: Is it 20 feasible for any state agency to manage that 21 property when every one of those private 22 landowners have a right to visit their 23 property, to recreate? As a member of our 24 organization, not only your family has a right
25 to use your property, but all the other members
2 Governor, I would submit to you that this 3 project is not feasible. And in addition, I 4 was here for the August 7 Cabinet aides meeting 5 and I sat in the back, and I listened to a 6 representative from DEP state the following in 7 regards to some property in Miami. He stated 8 that: 11 state-owned lots located in Miami 9 should be sold by the state because they are 10 noncontiguous lots, and noncontiguous lots are 11 problematic and nonmanageable; that was his 12 quoted words. 13 Now they have before you today a project 14 of noncontiguous lots that are problematic and 15 nonmanageable. 16 And also I would like to remind the 17 Cabinet, this is -- the area you see in red is 18 not the total Bombing Range Ridge Project. 19 This is a very small portion of it. 20 We believe that any purchases that are 21 made, they will continue to grow and grow until 22 eventually the River Ranch Property Owners 23 Association will be squeezed out of managing 24 any of this property which they have managed
25 for the last 30 years.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. 3 MR. FOUNTAIN: I would like to address one 4 point quickly, and while these gentlemen are up 5 here I would like to get some consensus on this 6 issue. 7 Once again, within the red hatched area, 8 which is the target acquisition, the green lots 9 are owned by Preservation of Natural Florida, 10 Lightsey Cattle Company and Avitar, all of who 11 have agreed -- two of which have signed 12 contracts with the Conservancy to sell. 13 The white lots are owned by other parties, 14 typically individuals. They have represented 15 to me in the past that they -- their members 16 own 31 of those lots. 17 It is a continuing misrepresentation to 18 sit here and refer to the white squares, or the 19 yellow squares for that matter, as being people 20 that are unwilling to sell or that are past or 21 present members of the association. That is 22 absolutely not accurate. 23 Another thing I would also point out is 24 this. This project is not all River Ranch
25 acres. The light blue on this map is a
2 parcel desired by the Division of Forestry. 3 And we have a letter of intent on that piece of 4 property for the sale of that, subject to the 5 working out of contractual terms. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does that go down into the -- 7 I have this -- this is a different map. I 8 happened to come from a meeting yesterday, and we 9 were talking about the Bombing Range and its new 10 mission because of the -- I told them we would 11 come back and take an active interest in this in 12 terms of encroachment issues. 13 You see that shape that goes down into 14 the -- along the river right there -- that 15 part -- is that part of what you just 16 described? 17 MR. FOUNTAIN: That's part of the River 18 Ranch. The ranch that I am describing, the 19 5,000-acre ranch, is a mile north of the east west 20 portion of State Road 60 that you see on that map. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: So your members also own 22 property down along the river down further south 23 near the Bombing range? 24 MR. FITZPATRICK: The best I can tell
25 referring to this map, our members own property
2 of Highway 60; and in addition, the areas depicted 3 in 10 above Highway 60 up to upper regions. I am 4 not sure if there is -- there may be a block of 5 land there owned by someone else; but the majority 6 of that tan piece, we have members who own land 7 scattered throughout that. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. 9 MR. FOUNTAIN: That is accurate, Governor, 10 except for that ranch. 11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Mr. Durham. 12 Mr. Durham: I want Mr. Dawson to come up and 13 he wanted to say a couple of words. That article, 14 if you could put that right here. This is what we 15 are all about. This is just one instance we 16 happened to find in the paper, last Sunday's 17 paper. 18 MR. DAWSON: This is an achievement award 19 given to this student in Avon Park High School. 20 She was voted by her principal and her teachers, 21 and I don't think you can read it. Let me read it 22 to you. It stated what she likes to do is -- has 23 her name, which is Allison Mackin, her age, the 24 best subject, worse subject, what drives you
25 crazy, what makes you happy, favorite book, what
2 says what do you do for fun? Cheerleading, having 3 fun with my friends and going to River Ranch. 4 This was in last Sunday's Sebring paper. 5 Mr. Durham: This is typical, it runs 6 throughout our association, it's a family -- 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am missing the point about 8 this because if you are not a willing seller, you 9 are not going to be bought. And whether it's 10 owned by the Nature Conservancy or the state, we 11 are going to have to provide access to your 12 property. 13 So irrespective of the point you made 14 about -- and apparently the DEP person made 15 about another property in Miami, that there is 16 management problems with a configuration like 17 this, you still have access to your property, 18 right? 19 MR. FITZPATRICK: Governor, we would 20 appreciate to always have access to our property, 21 but our point we have tried to make is we have 22 done our best over the years to protect and 23 conserve, as it was originally set up by the 24 original grantor, this entire piece of property;
25 we have gone a good job with it for years and
2 If the state purchases these lands it will 3 drastically affect the ability of this 4 nonprofit corporation to do what they have done 5 in the past. There are many more, much more 6 deserving projects on the B list of the Florida 7 Forever Project and also on the A list. 8 This is a project that has been opposed 9 for years. There has been no notice to all the 10 landowners as required in the statutes. And we 11 hope we always have access to our property, but 12 we would like to continue what we have done in 13 the past. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Which is to manage all the 15 property? 16 MR. FITZPATRICK: Yes. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: To cut to the chase, this is 18 related to that. 19 Mr. Durham: As was laid out when it was 20 purchased individually, having access forever. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Refresh my memory. I thought 22 maybe we talked about last time you all came up 23 here, about the possibility of doing some venture 24 where there would be shared management. Would
25 that --
2 would love to work with anyone. We are open, we 3 would like to talk. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that just my own 5 imagination or did we discuss that? 6 MR. STRUHS: That was Commissioner Crawford's 7 recommendation. Commissioner Crawford made that 8 recommendation. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Crawford. I 10 think I was supportive of it maybe. 11 Mr. Durham: We also have our treasurer in 12 case you would like to ask him any questions as to 13 how much it is for fire equipment, how much we 14 have, and so forth. 15 We came prepared to explain and try to 16 defend our position. This is at no cost to the 17 state. The tax revenues on the property we are 18 talking about in the white, on the south side, 19 exceed -- and each time we say wait a minute, 20 these are tax generating dollars that's in 21 excess of $600,000 a year just in this one 22 section. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you don't want to sell, 24 you don't have to. That part is --
25 Mr. Durham: 600,000 -- I don't mean to
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: I interrupted you. Don't 3 worry. 4 But have you all seen these pictures we 5 all got? These are pictures of properties 6 apparently under your management that don't 7 depict the management in a favorable light. 8 MR. FITZPATRICK: I would like to remind the 9 Cabinet, those are selected pictures which I never 10 seen before today. And I am not sure where they 11 were taken; I am not sure there is any evidence as 12 to where they were taken, although I would like to 13 point out that several legislators have 14 investigated this property on their own and we 15 provided copies of these letters and these 16 legislators have concluded that they have done a 17 very good job over the years. We also pointed out 18 the report from the University of Florida earlier 19 which showed the endangered species. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you haven't seen the 21 pictures? 22 MR. FITZPATRICK: No. 23 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I guess, 24 since Forestry has been put a little bit into the
25 middle of this and it is one of our divisions of
2 Service, one of the things that we have been 3 concerned with as well is how do we work on the 4 natural resource aspect of forestry dealing with 5 all the property owners in here? 6 Of course, Nature Conservancy, we have a 7 number of proposals with them on forests, to 8 help them on forest resources and prescribed 9 burns and those types of things. 10 But to be able to -- to get into this 11 fully with private landowners is going to be a 12 lot tougher, because we are going to have to 13 somehow work out agreements that not every 14 private landowner is going to want on 15 management issues with the department. 16 So it has our hands tied as well to some 17 degree, although we are willing to try to work 18 it out as best we can with all parties 19 concerned. 20 But can I ask one question here? Since 21 you have, according to what we have heard, 31 22 members that still have pieces within the green 23 area of the orange outlined area, are those 31 24 members -- do they hunt the whole area or do
25 they only just go to their piece of property or
2 Conservancy do you have on those pieces? 3 MR. FITZPATRICK: Commissioner Bronson, we 4 dispute that number of 31. We believe it's far 5 more than that. 6 With that being said, it is much broader 7 than hunting. I would say recreation, there 8 are all types of recreation that takes place on 9 this property. 10 Recreation -- if you own property in 11 there, you are entitled to use the entire 12 parcel. That's the way it was originally set 13 up by GAC in the '60s, and it's the way it 14 continues until today. So these people who own 15 property on the north side are allowed to use 16 for recreation the entire piece of property 17 which I believe is 56,000 acres. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does that change? 19 MR. FITZPATRICK: That will change, Governor, 20 if this plan goes through. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why? 22 MR. FITZPATRICK: Because that area is 23 currently being utilized for recreation for these 24 people who will not have that availability.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, why does it have to
2 still have -- maybe I am wrong, but wouldn't the 3 department still -- 4 Mr. Durham: Unmanageable. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Except the management. 6 MR. FITZPATRICK: We are not sure at this 7 point what restrictions would be placed on the 8 property, what uses would be deemed acceptable by 9 different departments. Right now we know that 10 they can use the entire piece for recreational 11 purposes, that will -- that potentially could be 12 eliminated. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much is your budget to 14 manage this property? 15 Mr. Durham: Approximately $250,000 a year is 16 taken in, all of which -- and if you got two 17 seconds, Vic is quick -- 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just wanted to get the 19 scope. 20 MR. FITZPATRICK: We have our treasurer. He 21 can recite specific numbers, but approximately a 22 quarter of a million dollars a year in funds are 23 turned around and spent on conservation protection 24 of the property, and in addition, as I said,
25 thousands of volunteer hours a year, which if you
2 could amount to a very large number. 3 Mr. Durham: The trash pickups, the food 4 plots, the fire equipment, the road equipment, the 5 check stations; the checking stations, that has 6 been a bone of contention, they said -- we heard 7 someone was denied access to this property. 8 No. No, one ever denied access to this 9 property. If, in fact, Governor or anybody 10 here wanted to come over, it's a courtesy thing 11 that's -- 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: If we were to. 13 Mr. Durham: -- it's a safety issue. Okay. 14 How are you doing. All right. You want to sign 15 here. Okay. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: If we were to manage this 17 property, or if the department was, you wouldn't 18 have to assess your members that 250,000, correct? 19 MR. FITZPATRICK: Right. Our members are 20 glad to pay that and would pay more to continue 21 their devotion and dedication. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Your concern, since private 23 property rights -- I mean, there is no taking 24 here; we are not using eminent domain; we are not
25 doing any of that.
2 you still have access to it. Your concern is 3 knowing what you have, which is you manage the 4 property for a quarter of a million dollars, 5 versus the uncertainty of not knowing how the 6 department or the Nature Conservancy would 7 operate it? 8 MR. FITZPATRICK: In addition -- 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that a fair assessment? 10 MR. FITZPATRICK: It's a fair assessment. In 11 addition -- 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am trying to get to the -- 13 SECRETARY SMITH: What I am trying to 14 understand, this was before the Cabinet and it 15 went back and now they are back? In this the 16 first time it's been here? 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: This was on the same list 18 last time, wasn't it? 19 SECRETARY SMITH: What I am trying to get at 20 is it seems to me if there is supposed to have 21 been a process where the people at the state level 22 and maybe the Conservancy and these private 23 landowners were going to talk to each other, that 24 hasn't been done very well.
25 And all I am suggesting is maybe there is
2 through an exercise where there is a real 3 effort for everybody to sit down and try to 4 understand what it is we are trying to 5 accomplish. 6 The end result may well be one that you 7 don't like, and the public policy may be that 8 it's better to go ahead and do this. But all I 9 am saying is the government ought to be honest 10 with these folks say: Your life may change. 11 The management plan may be such that you don't 12 like it. And we may try to accommodate you or 13 we may say that's tough. 14 But it just seems to me that somebody 15 hasn't done a very good job in sitting down 16 with our citizens and trying to talk about what 17 the management plan would be like, what rights 18 they would have and how this thing might work. 19 And frankly this is to me a pretty good 20 example of how government is not working very 21 well, and we ought to try to do something about 22 it. 23 They may not like the end result. We may 24 decide we are going to go ahead and run over
25 them, but at least I think it's at least going
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: What the Secretary meant to 3 say was -- 4 SECRETARY SMITH: Those folks were here 5 before -- this is the way I have always been. It 6 seems to me we ought to get it all on the table, 7 let's know what we are dealing with. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's exactly I think the 9 point that I was inarticulately trying to make. 10 Mr. Durham: You said that once before, and 11 which we did try to. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly, this was the same 13 conversation we had and it appeared like maybe 14 there wasn't as good a faith effort as we needed 15 to make. 16 The second question that I would like to 17 throw out to my fellow Cabinet members is, here 18 put aside the issue of management and the 19 unique nature of the ownership mix here. 20 Is this property a property that is 21 valuable for conservation for the state? In 22 other words, even if it was just a single 23 landowner, put aside all that, is this worthy 24 of being on the A list?
25 I would suggest personally that it is.
2 Kissimmee River Watershed, and we have been 3 buying land all around here. If it isn't, then 4 someone better tell us because right above that 5 is the island we bought on the dang lake for 6 eight zillion dollars, and all around, we are 7 buying very pristine property all around here. 8 I am assuming that this is something that 9 we would want on the list, it just has these 10 unique management considerations. 11 Mr. Durham: By the same token, if it's 12 working, don't fix it. If it's already 13 unbuildable according to the county, no one is 14 ever going to issue a building permit, it's 15 illegal to put a home there, and there are a few 16 that were put under the guise of irrigation -- 17 yadda, yadda, yadda. And guess what? Our people 18 went up and said: Wait a minute, you just issued 19 a permit, there is a house there now. So then the 20 county comes back and states: Wait a minute. 21 Move it. And you shut off their electric. So why 22 preserve it -- 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's ask Secretary Struhs to 24 answer that question. Why, if it's not broke, if
25 it ain't broke, why fix it?
2 Commissioner Crawford recommended that we try to 3 do something similar to what Secretary Smith just 4 proposed, the agencies did engage in that 5 discussion. 6 And it's not just the DEP; it's also the 7 Fish and Game Commission and also the 8 Department of Forestry. They would most likely 9 be the land managers in the event the state 10 acquired it. 11 And the reason those conversations did not 12 bear any fruit is because the homeowners 13 association frankly did not like the idea of 14 public access and as the public agency, using 15 public resources -- 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: It appears like -- 17 MR. FITZPATRICK: We have cooperated with the 18 Division of Forestry in the last year. And I 19 believe there are people here that can shed more 20 light on this than I can, but we have cooperated 21 with the Division of Forestry. We have fought 22 fires alongside of them. We have had classes 23 where or some type -- 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Answer the public access
25 question.
2 policy is we deny public access to no one. We 3 have a sign-in gate, which is for safety purposes 4 only because it's not mandatory. We cannot 5 require anyone to sign up or do anything before 6 they enter the property. That's been ruled on by 7 a Polk County judge and that's been our long 8 standing policy. 9 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, there needs 10 to be some clarification here. Are you saying you 11 deny access to -- even people who don't own any 12 properties in this piece, you let them go out 13 there too, or only those who actually are owners 14 of the property within the piece we are talking 15 about? 16 MR. FITZPATRICK: We deny access to no one, 17 because we have no authority to do so. A Polk 18 County judged ruled a few years back as long as 19 there was property in there that was for sale, 20 then we could not. So we have not kept people out 21 of there. 22 MR. STRUHS: I need to -- I need to address 23 this, and I am starting to lose my patience a 24 little bit because, in fact, what the judge found
25 was that the association was using armed guards to
2 denying them access to property that they owned. 3 And one of the bedrock principles that we try to 4 bring to this is an appreciation for private 5 property rights. 6 And one of the private property rights we 7 have to protect is people's access to their 8 property, and also the right to sell their 9 property if they choose to, to whomever they 10 choose. 11 I think that's what the question is here. 12 In fact, if you go back and look at the legal 13 record, the association was found by the judge 14 and ordered to stop spreading nails in a dirt 15 road to prevent other property owners from 16 accessing property that they rightfully own. 17 I think what is being represented here is 18 frankly a little bit misleading. And I think 19 our record proves we only buy property from 20 willing sellers. And, in fact, we reserve for 21 the Trustees the opportunity, once the whole 22 package comes together, to look at it in a 23 fresh light and determine then whether or not 24 this is a parcel you do or do not want to
25 accept in the way it comes before you. You
2 But the fact of the matter is there is a 3 lot of people here who have a lot of property 4 rights, who have been very willing and eager to 5 sell their land to the state. And I think we 6 need to respect that property right as well. 7 In terms of the resource value, just to 8 echo what you said, this is one of Senator 9 Laurent, former Senator Laurent's project. 10 Senator Laurent was one of the key leaders in 11 getting the Florida Forever Program, along with 12 then Senator Bronson, law. 13 One of the reasons Senator Laurent was 14 such a big proponent of Florida Forever is 15 because he felt this in particular was an 16 example of kind of an acquisition that we, as a 17 State, should be making. 18 I would also point out that this is 19 something that the Air Force, following up on 20 the base commanders' meeting, is very 21 supportive of. They look at this as exactly 22 the kind of partnership between our 23 conservation, recreation and national defense 24 interests that come together.
25 So for all those reasons, I would say stay
2 decision that's already been made, and I think 3 made in a public forum, which is to keep it on 4 the list. 5 Things haven't changed. If anything, it's 6 only gotten better because we actually made 7 real progress in consolidating these properties 8 in a meaningful way. 9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? Is 10 there a motion? 11 GENERAL MILLIGAN: I move we accept the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and second. 14 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I would, for a little bit of 16 discussion and then we'll move on; but I would 17 urge the Department and the Nature Conservancy, 18 maybe with -- I would urge further discussion. 19 I just I think Secretary Smith is 20 absolutely right; that it's incumbent upon us 21 to go the extra mile. And maybe there is a way 22 to create a true win/win that would make 23 Senator Laurent even happier in terms of this 24 property, because it's not just the ownership
25 of the land; it's also the management of the
2 conservation programs excellent. 3 If the objective is just to buy all the 4 land in the state, well, that ain't going to 5 cut it. That's not what the Nature Conservancy 6 wants. I know that's not the policy of this 7 Governor and Cabinet. 8 So based on that, I think we need to make 9 a more concerted effort to reach out and 10 determine whether or not there is a more 11 creative way of dealing with this. 12 It will impact my feelings about the 13 purchase of the lands as they come forward, I 14 promise you. 15 SECRETARY SMITH: The only thing I would say 16 to you folks, I think recognize that it's going to 17 be different. It's not going to be like it has 18 been. And so you need to approach the folks from 19 the Conservancy and the State I think with an 20 attitude that, hey, we know the world is changing 21 and let's see if we can't come back here and 22 everybody feel better about the situation, because 23 it's going to be different. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
25 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Governor, I also --
2 our Division of Forestry or DEP or whoever the 3 state agency is -- needs to sit down and say: 4 Under these conditions, this is what we are going 5 to have to have or the way we are going to operate 6 the properties or whatever, and just come on out 7 and get it out and work those issues out, instead 8 of playing games and saying: Well, we'll do this 9 now, but then somebody else wants to change the 10 plans later. 11 That's what has everything so confused 12 here. I think everybody just needs to step up 13 to the plate saying under these specific 14 conditions, this is what is going to happen and 15 level with everybody, so they know what they 16 are dealing with up front. 17 I think that's the proper thing, to work 18 with private landowners in the state if we are 19 planning on doing state lands or whatever we 20 are doing; just level with the people and let 21 them know what's going to happen. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. There is a motion 23 and a second. All in favor say sigh aye. 24 THE CABINET MEMBERS: Aye.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. Thank you, sir,
2 MR. STRUHS: Item number 11, recommending 3 approval of an acquisition. 4 This is a remarkable partnership with the 5 federal government. It's about two and a half 6 acres, a little over two and a half acres that 7 is immediately adjacent to the very popular 8 Topsail State Park on the Florida Panhandle. 9 This is an example where the federal 10 government is being more than generous with an 11 83 percent match, the state would pay 12 17 percent of the land value, for a total of 13 $450,000. 14 I wanted to make a point on the record 15 prior to your consideration of this item, and I 16 think it's important, that the neighboring 17 subdivision does not have any covenants or 18 restrictions that are attached or follow this 19 property. 20 So upon its being acquired and 21 incorporated into the management of Topsail 22 State Park, it would not be subject to those 23 covenants and restrictions. And, in fact, the 24 public does have access to this property
25 through the existing park.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, what's a subspecies of 3 a beach mice? Are they kind of cousins or 4 something? They all look alike to me. Is that 5 what we are protecting here, these subspecies? I 6 normally get in trouble by bringing this up. 7 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Let me jump in the frame. 8 I am going to pass down a piece out of the 9 appraiser's book that better describes, I think, 10 this two and a half acres that we are buying for a 11 million dollars an acre. 12 And on that first page you will see -- on 13 the first page there it shows you what piece of 14 the property is really available to be built 15 upon. And then the next page it happens to 16 show you where the coastal construction line 17 falls. 18 And so we are buying two and a half acres 19 of land at a million dollars an acre, of which 20 only a very small piece can be used in a 21 development sense. 22 It would appear to me that we would be a 23 lot better off in wanting to protect this mouse 24 by maybe buying all but that piece that is
25 developable, that can be developed, than buying
2 majority of it, for a much less price than a 3 million dollars an acre. 4 I just have a lot of problems with what we 5 are paying for it and with what we are getting 6 for it. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: If we don't buy it and there 8 is these rats -- or whatever -- mice on the 9 property, can they develop it? 10 GENERAL MILLIGAN: They can only develop a 11 very small piece of it. One house can be built on 12 it. Granted, it would be an expensive house, but 13 one house. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Not there, not with this 15 property. That's market. The property -- it's 16 expensive, but it's not -- people buy those 17 properties. 18 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Absolutely, but I am not 19 saying that somebody won't buy it. I just don't 20 think we should buy it for two and a half million 21 dollars. 22 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If there is federal 23 money we are using, you must pay hundred percent 24 of value.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we pay 17 percent.
2 are putting up some of the money; that's 3 taxpayers' money, too. 4 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think we must pay a 5 hundred percent of assessed value if in fact any 6 federal monies are involved. 7 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Yes, I understand that. 8 MR. STRUHS: That's correct. 9 GENERAL MILLIGAN: My point is, what are we 10 buying? 11 We are buying a piece of property, paying 12 a very high price to protect a mouse, and only 13 a very small piece of it is really developable, 14 can be developed. 15 If somebody were to put a house on there, 16 I don't think it would adversely affect really 17 the remainder of the property, even if they 18 owned it. 19 And additionally, that piece that drains 20 from the lake probably meanders all over that 21 property anyway and from year to year or decade 22 to decade will change. 23 So I just think two and a half million 24 dollars is an awful lot of money to spend on
25 this piece of property, and I just can't
2 good portion of it out of our taxpayers' 3 dollars. 4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am not going to bring up 5 the mice thing again. 6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: How do you separate it 7 out? You just want to buy the part they can build 8 on and let the guy keep other part? 9 MR. STRUHS: We looked in the item in terms 10 of the developability of the parcel, and according 11 to the program that runs the Coastal Construction 12 Control Line, they can build up -- I believe it's 13 the 15-foot contour, which is actually seaward of 14 that coastal construction control line. 15 GENERAL MILLIGAN: I was just showing what 16 the appraiser was talking about. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? 18 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If we buy this, I think 19 we should make sure that no cats are allowed on 20 the -- 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I have been trying to hold 22 back, and the Attorney General just unleashed. 23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah, but here's the 24 deal. If the cats get on there, then we won't
25 have to go protect the mouse, and we can sell it
2 they don't build a house and we wait a few years, 3 then we'll buy it back from them because the cats 4 all died and the mouse come back. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: We done lot of focus groups 6 down in that senatorial district, and there are a 7 lot of people that believe in these mice. You may 8 have made a huge mistake for your Senate race. 9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I would bet you there 10 are more cats in that senatorial district than 11 there are mice. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are probably right. 13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And lots of rats. 14 MR. STRUHS: Governor, we are fortunate to 15 have Gail Carmady, who is the manager here in 16 Florida for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. 17 If you would like to invite Gail to address the 18 natural resource issues, not just the mice, but 19 all the other values. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please, yes. 21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I have a question. How 22 is anybody going to get -- this is almost in a 23 gated community, isn't it? 24 MR. STRUHS: Yeah, access would be through
25 the existing Topsail Park.
2 to go around the beach to get it? 3 MR. STRUHS: Yes. 4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: What's -- let me 5 just -- I am looking at this little map here that 6 came to me. The two sides of this property, there 7 is houses already there on both sides? 8 MR. STRUHS: On one side. 9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: On one side. You want 10 to tell me -- I am looking at the map -- which 11 side? 12 MR. STRUHS: East side. 13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. There is a house 14 east and there is no house west? 15 MR. STRUHS: Correct. 16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Topsail is east or 17 west? 18 MR. STRUHS: West. 19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So it abuts Topsail. 20 What's going to happen is Topsail is going to move 21 on over into this gated community. Yes? 22 MR. STRUHS: It's adjacent to Topsail Park, 23 yes. It's contiguous. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Looks to me like we are
25 buying a piece of Stallworth Boulevard. At least
2 MR. STRUHS: I don't have that map. 3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: We got a few of them up 4 here. 5 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Kind of interesting when 6 this gets down and you note the price that it's on 7 the market for. 8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I am working with the 9 other map. Is that the part that can be built on? 10 Let's look at this one. 11 You see where that little circle is, up 12 righthand corner? That's Stallworth Boulevard. 13 We are buying the road up to that little circle 14 on Stallworth Boulevard, I guess, right? 15 MS. CARMANDY: No, we are just getting the 16 lot, not buying the road. 17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: What's that line mean? 18 MS. CARMANDY: The circle on the road? 19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I am talking about the 20 big square. I thought that's the property lines. 21 MR. STRUHS: Let me ask Gail to speak to 22 this, please. 23 MS. CARMANDY: Thank you, Governor and 24 Cabinet.
25 It's our understanding that that part that
2 easement and not specifically part of the title 3 to this property. 4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So we are not buying 5 the road there? 6 MS. CARMANDY: No. 7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But we are buying up to 8 the road because the road is an easement on this 9 property? 10 MS. CARMANDY: Correct. 11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And they keep that 12 road. 13 So the people that live in this gated 14 community, they can drive around this little 15 road and use this right on to the beach as they 16 got their own private little beach now. 17 And anybody else, the public wants to get 18 there, they've got to come through Topsail and 19 walk down the beach -- or can't drive there, 20 they've got to drive down the beach. But if 21 you live in the gated community, you can park 22 right there and walk down to the beach. That's 23 a great deal. 24 MS. CARMANDY: This development I believe is
25 14 lots. Several have been combined, so there
2 beach access themselves. 3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: They are all east of 4 this property? 5 MS. CARMANDY: Correct. 6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: In a row pretty much. 7 MS. CARMANDY: Correct. 8 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to tell us about the 9 endangered critter? 10 MS. CARMANDY: There are five subspecies of 11 beach mice, Florida and Alabama, that are 12 distinguished. Because of the barrier island 13 system, they evolved in a way -- you can't, when 14 you see them one against the other, you can see a 15 difference in them. 16 This particular one is a Choctawatchee 17 beach mouse. We believe we have a strong 18 opportunity to recover this mouse, and at least 19 reclassify it from endangered to threatened 20 with some commitments of public and private 21 land management. So this is an important piece 22 to the recovery of the Choctawatchee beach 23 mouse. 24 SECRETARY SMITH: There is going to be
25 development all around this site probably or
2 MS. CARMANDY: Currently at the Stallworth 3 Preserve, the small development that's to the 4 east, that development has an incidental take 5 permit under the Federal Endangered Species Act, 6 which requires specific conservation measures that 7 will protect the beach mouse and its habitat in 8 the developed area. 9 SECRETARY SMITH: I am just really trying to 10 understand, and I guess what you are telling me is 11 that it's that important that a piece of land 12 seemingly this insignificant, what may be going 13 around and around it, is going to make a 14 difference. Are these mice hanging at peoples' 15 houses? Help, I am not trying to be funny about 16 this. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 17 MS. CARMANDY: I understand. And in the 18 places where there is coastal development, it 19 requires some specific management in terms of 20 native vegetation. The Stallworth Preserve has, 21 each lot has a specific footprint in order to 22 minimize the amount of habitat impact. 23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Following up on Secretary 24 Smith's comment, you could create a management
25 plan for this parcel that would allow for the
2 protection for the Choctawhatchee beach mouse? 3 MS. CARMANDY: There has been potential 4 buyers that have investigated that of this 5 property. We believe that public ownership offers 6 us the greatest long-term flexibility in terms of 7 habitat management there. 8 However, a landowner can come to us and 9 request an incidental take permit, and we can 10 develop a habitat conservation plan for that 11 particular parcel. 12 But the law does require mitigation. And 13 it's getting -- just as this piece of property 14 is expensive, it's getting harder and harder to 15 find suitable mitigation for that future 16 developer. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: But I mean, I asked this 18 question earlier on in this conversation; that if 19 someone bought this property and wanted to develop 20 it and there was the threat or possibility of an 21 endangered species on it, wouldn't that impact 22 their development? Wouldn't they have to come to 23 you and develop -- 24 MS. CARMANDY: Yes.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. So --
2 in the corner. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: So to use the footprint that 4 General Milligan showed, the majority of the 5 property would remain intact if you decided that 6 was the appropriate way to develop it? 7 MS. CARMANDY: The situation with, for 8 instance, in the property appraiser's review where 9 a house might go is still part of beach mouse 10 habitat; that's important in times of a hurricane; 11 that as a hurricane is coming in, the beach mouse 12 retreat further back into this scrub system. And 13 if we placed a house there, that would eliminate 14 that type of habitat at that location. 15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Because the beach mouse 16 -- 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: They run into the lake. 18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: He is going down 19 Stallworth Boulevard, because if he goes too far 20 straight north, he is going to end up in the lake. 21 If they build a little mouse hut -- 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: We are, as you can tell, a 23 little troubled by the pricing here. And you tell 24 us people can actually afford to live on
25 properties like this.
2 administration recognize that. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: This could make 20/20 if we 4 don't watch it. 5 MS. CARMANDY: Where there is -- where there 6 is suburban/urban interfaces is important for the 7 recovery of many species, and that is why we have 8 these federal programs, to help the states partner 9 towards recovery. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a major inducement when 11 you put up 83 or 85 percent of the money. 12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Here's the thing. 13 Governor, is there any mice down in front of these 14 people's houses? 15 MS. CARMANDY: I am not sure; is that 16 Stallworth Preserve? 17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: This is the 18 advertisement for $3.4 million for 2.63 acres. I 19 don't know why we are buying 6.1. 20 There are houses that are already built on 21 the middle, but if you look here, this is the 22 property that we are buying and there is that 23 Boulevard. And this is Topsail. And there is 24 obviously mice living down here, Topsail; you
25 tell me there is mice here. Is there mice down
2 MS. CARMANDY: Yes, the monitoring that was 3 required as part of our permit found mice in that 4 developed area. 5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So all these mice down 6 here are going to go through these guys' yards 7 right up to where they go when the hurricane 8 comes, right? 9 I don't know why these mice can't do the 10 same thing. 11 MS. CARMANDY: It's hard to think like a 12 mouse. 13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I think we are getting 14 there, though. 15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You guys are the one 16 that monitor these mice; not us. 17 SECRETARY SMITH: I think if we keep talking 18 about mice, we are going to destroy the market. 19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Everybody is going to 20 be worried about the mice getting in their house. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? Is 22 there a motion on this agenda item? 23 GENERAL MILLIGAN: I move to reject. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? Can I do
25 the second? I forgot how that works. Can I
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: There is no second. 3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I want to second it, or are 4 you are saying you don't want to vote on it? Is 5 that what you are saying? 6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: No, but if there is no 7 second, there is no motion and somebody else has 8 to make one. If you second it, you got to turn it 9 over to Smith to second it. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary? 11 SECRETARY SMITH: I am not going to give you 12 that gavel. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am going to give it to you. 14 I second General Milligan's motion. You are in 15 charge now. I gave it to you. 16 SECRETARY SMITH: We have a motion and 17 second. All in favor say aye. 18 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Aye. 19 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Aye. 20 SECRETARY SMITH: Aye. 21 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Aye. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Aye. 23 SECRETARY SMITH: Opposed? 24 GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: No. You got five to
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did everybody vote? The 3 answer is no, five to two. 4 MR. STRUHS: Item 12, I would like to 5 recognize Mary Kaufman Maxwell. I believe she is 6 still here. 7 We have been working with the Maxwell 8 family and is Curt -- if you have any 9 questions, they would be happy to answer them. 10 It's a fairly simple and straightforward item. 11 Recommend approval of it. 12 This is a nice piece that fits within 13 existing state ownership on Key Largo Hammocks 14 Florida Forever Project. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion? 16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Move it. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: You came all the way up for 18 this. We are happy to have you here. 19 MR. MAXWELL: Bring it to a conclusion. 20 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and second. 21 Any other discussion? 22 Without objection, it's passed. Thank 23 you. Hope you enjoyed your time at the 24 Cabinet.
25 MR. STRUHS: At this point, she is feeling
2 Item 13, recommending approval of this 3 item. 4 This is a great opportunity where the 5 Water Management District and South Florida 6 Division of State Lands and the private 7 landowner have worked pretty cooperatively 8 together. 9 In a way that's going to allow us to 10 advance the restoration of the Kissimmee River, 11 create important connectors with existing state 12 properties, and doing it in a way that will 13 allow for the long-term management of the 14 wildlife interests in this area. 15 To the extent that some of the land will 16 not be ready for restoration for a couple of 17 years, they have as part of the deal on the 18 water management district side worked in a 19 profit sharing arrangement for the two 20 remaining harvests of the saga that's grown on 21 this property. Recommend approval of the item. 22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 13. 23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and second.
25 Any discussion?
2 that I heard today or heard yesterday or sometime 3 through my staff that part of the, I guess, 4 consideration on this property would be the 5 possibility that maybe the Parks and Recreation 6 will have control and, therefore, maybe part of 7 this would be a preserve; David, is that not 8 correct, that it would be kept as a preserve? 9 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's beautiful property. 11 MR. STRUHS: If I could just add a little bit 12 to that, Commissioner. 13 Our vision of this is that the water 14 management district will use the part along the 15 waterfront for the river restoration, as you 16 are well familiar with that. 17 As you go landward and the Division of 18 State Land picks up the management 19 responsibilities for more of the upland 20 properties, the goal is to make sure it would 21 do that in a way that's completely integrated 22 and that we preserve this through natural 23 quality there now. The last thing we want to 24 do is divide it up with fences.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? There
2 Without objection, the item passes. 3 MR. STRUHS: Thank you. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
2 Information Board. 3 MR. YOUNG: First one is approval of the 4 minutes of the February 12 meeting. 5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes. 6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second. 7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 8 objection, the item passes. Item 2. 9 MR. YOUNG: Item 2 is an update on the FLAIR 10 and Cash Management System Replacement Project, 11 but it is going to take about two to three minutes 12 to get the computer booted up. 13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Perfect. We are taking a 14 break. 15 (Brief recess.) 16 MR. YOUNG: If we could move to item 3 and 17 come back to item 2. 18 GOVERNOR BUSH: How long is this going to 19 take? 20 MR. YOUNG: Won't take that long. 21 Item 3 is to accept the report on the 22 state university initiatives to acquire and 23 implement a new financial management system for 24 the period January 2002 to June 2002.
25 This report indicates that all 11
2 their own new financial management system by 3 July 12004; actually five universities will be 4 transitioning by July 2003; the other six will 5 be by July 2004. 6 The legislature this past session did pass 7 some new provisions, essentially having each of 8 the universities develop a transition plan. 9 That transition plan is to be done in 10 cooperation with the Comptroller's CFO; that 11 plan, the guidelines are being worked on right 12 now by the Division of Colleges and 13 Universities along with staff in the State 14 Comptroller's office. 15 But anyway, the long and short of it is is 16 that right now we've got 11 universities saying 17 they can get off the statewide accounting 18 system by July 2004. 19 That was under the old process. A new 20 process is going to begin as soon as we get the 21 new guidelines out to them; they will go 22 through a process of responding to guidelines 23 that we give them as to how to develop those 24 transition plans. And they will tell us
25 somewhere in the period of January to March of
2 how long it will take them to do that. 3 Anyway, that's what I am to resolve about. 4 We are just asking for an acceptance of the 5 report. 6 GENERAL MILLIGAN: I move acceptance, but 7 this is a big deal I think for universities, and I 8 have working with the universities and I am 9 comfortable that they will meet their deadlines. 10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: The guidelines that 11 they are set for is that they produce periodically 12 data points that are acceptable into the 13 comptroller's system, whatever it is, so that that 14 whole statewide accounting can be produced? 15 MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir, it's part of the 16 initial process this board approved. The 17 universities were supposed to develop a chart of 18 accounts that would be consistent with the chart 19 of accounts used by the state and also consistent 20 with our statewide accounting reports that we do 21 each year. 22 The universities have all agreed to do 23 that as they develop their transition plans, 24 that would be one of the items that they will
25 have to address.
2 together will be having the same chart of accounts 3 for the same accounts, so that they will 4 consistently deliver -- if you want to deliver a 5 university system accounting, everyone will be 6 using the same account numbers for different 7 items? 8 MR. YOUNG: They probably won't use the exact 9 same account numbers, but the chart of accounts, 10 when it's time to report, there will be a 11 transition table for them to be able to 12 essentially report altogether in the same way. 13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Is there a reason why 14 we wouldn't require the same account numbers? 15 MR. YOUNG: The main reason is each of the 16 universities have gone their own way as far as 17 developing and acquiring their new financial 18 management system. Essentially six of them are 19 looking at a Peoplesoft application; another three 20 are looking at what's called SCT Banner System, 21 and there is I guess two others that are still 22 trying to decide. 23 The bottom line is we don't want to tell 24 them that you have to use a six-character code
25 to identify salaries and benefits, if the
2 picked only accommodates a four-digit 3 character. 4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah, but we may need 5 six digits down the road, which is what happened 6 with e-mail and everything else. They only had 7 eight digits allowed. And why wouldn't we accept 8 one of the standards be at least six digits, if 9 that's what the state is going to be using? If 10 the software can't do six, maybe they shouldn't 11 buy it. Or did they already buy some that only do 12 six? 13 MR. YOUNG: Three of the universities -- 14 actually more than three -- 15 MR. SIMON: There would be a problem, they 16 wouldn't be able to go -- 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Would you say who you are for 18 the for record. 19 MR. SIMON: Art Simon, deputy comptroller, 20 chair of the FMMIS Council. 21 It would be a problem. The universities 22 have been given the authority to move ahead, 23 and they are making decisions based on 24 available technology and the authority that's
25 been given to them by law.
2 account code as we are going to have would have 3 to hold them up; it would have to hold them up 4 until we have the account code structure in 5 place. 6 We will get the information we need in a 7 fashion whereby the account code can be 8 produced and the analysis can be performed; we 9 can be assured of that. 10 But to impose any additional requirements 11 on them at this time may run contrary to their 12 statutory authorization and also would 13 necessitate a delay of on-going projects. 14 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Some of them also already 15 have in place systems that will allow them to be 16 expanded to accommodate the accounting side. They 17 already bought systems, software. 18 MR. YOUNG: Some of them already have HR 19 systems that they would be expanding to add county 20 models to; so they are kind of locked into a code 21 structure already. 22 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. 23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second. 24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion to accept
25 the report and a second. Without objection, the
2 Who is going to go to the dentist? Good 3 luck. 4 MR. YOUNG: Item 2 is an update and 5 presentation on the FLAIR and Cash Management 6 System Replacement Project and we have got Art 7 Simon who is investment control and department 8 manager for that project. 9 MR. SIMON: Good day. We have been asked to 10 provide a brief presentation on the underlying 11 premises, current status, and overall 12 implementation plan for the FLAIR and Cash 13 Management Replacement Project. 14 Also present here today are several 15 members of the core management group for the 16 project, including Mr. Doug Darling, who is the 17 director of the division of accounting and 18 auditing; Mr. Raymond Marsh to my right who is 19 the director of the division of information 20 systems; Mr. Bruce Colander from the treasury. 21 Also we have two representatives here from 22 Maximus, the independent project manager, 23 Mr. Scott Brown and Mr. Charles Brady who is 24 president of the infrastructure division of
25 Maximus who is with us today to answer any
2 I will try to move through quickly in the 3 interest of time. 4 Just by way of introduction, the Florida 5 Financial Management Information Systems known 6 as FFMIS is statutorily constituted as five 7 distinct subsystems. Subsystems are COPES, the 8 Cooperative Personnel Employment System, the 9 State Purchasing System known as SPURS, Cash 10 Management Subsystem, the Florida Accounting 11 Information Resource known as FLAIR, and LASPBS 12 Legislative Appropriation System and Planning 13 and Budgetary subsystem which deals with 14 budgeting issues. 15 The current FLAIR -- the current FFMIS 16 system is approximately 20 years old. And over 17 the last 10 years in particular there have been 18 increasing concerns regarding deficiencies in 19 the various subsystems. 20 Consequently, in the fiscal year '99-2000, 21 the legislature authorized an extensive 22 business case study of replacement options for 23 the FFMIS subsystems. It was contracted by 24 Department of Management Services and was
25 performed by KPMG Consulting.
2 COPES, SPURS, the cash management subsystem and 3 FLAIR be replaced with Enterprise Resource 4 Planning Software. 5 A number of deficiencies were noted with 6 respect to COPES and SPURS and the Cash 7 Management System and FLAIR. I just I think we 8 ought to move to these slides. 9 Suffice to say I believe that the board is 10 already familiar with deficiencies that were 11 identified with respect to the COPES system, 12 and indeed in part that is what precipitated 13 the decision to outsource the human resources 14 function and replace COPES with an outsource 15 solution. 16 Why don't we just move on quickly in the 17 interest of time to slide 7. 18 FLAIR's deficiencies particularly noted by 19 the business case study: The current system 20 cannot perform cost accounting; the current 21 system cannot perform program accounting, 22 services or activities accounting; to be able 23 to obtain detailed analysis of expenses and 24 revenues, cannot be easily obtained. The
25 overall system is a legacy system, it was
2 this application, has been changed 3 substantially over the years, that operates as 4 a free-standing system which really is not 5 interoperable with the other systems. 6 The biggest problems, of course, are the 7 same problems that were identified with respect 8 to the COPES system, and that is the lack of 9 skilled staff to continue to support the 10 system. People who did the code over a period 11 of years are working their way out of the 12 system and we really have a great concern about 13 the potential risk of failure. 14 For the convenience of the board members, 15 we have also provided you with an attachment. 16 I won't go into it, but it sets forth with 17 greater specificity some of the identified 18 deficiencies that were found by the business 19 case study with respect to FLAIR and some of 20 the benefits to be derived by replacement of 21 the FLAIR with the new ERP system. 22 Overall, the state goal has been for 23 replacement of the FFMIS subsystems, and that 24 this goal is clearly in furtherance of the
25 State's goal, the State's long-range plan to
2 system for the State of Florida. 3 This long-range plan was first approved by 4 this board in 1998 and has subsequently been 5 reapproved each year thereafter. 6 More specifically, the project goal here 7 is replacement of the outmoded accounting and 8 cash management systems with a robust 9 commercial off-the-shelf Enterprise Resource 10 Planning Software solution. 11 Next slide, three years of due diligence 12 have gone into this project, three years with 13 due diligence precipitated legislative approval 14 of the FLAIR and Cash Management System 15 Replacement Project. 16 First, as I mentioned, in the fiscal year 17 '99-2000, the legislature authorized the 18 Business Case Study and also the legislature 19 authorized a pilot prototype that was actually 20 constructed and implemented at the Public 21 Service Commission for purposes of 22 demonstrating how the new system would work, 23 and it was run based on actual data, realtime 24 data, to show the feasibility of the ERP
25 solution.
2 desirability of modernization of the FFMIS 3 subsystems and the pilot project demonstrated 4 the feasibility of the ERP Solution, and it was 5 successful and well received. 6 Consequently, in the following year, 7 provision was made for the initiation of what 8 was known as the IFMS, standing for Integrated 9 Financial Management System, and a study of 10 core business processes which would be 11 incorporated into a new chart of accounts. 12 $19 million was appropriated in that 13 fiscal year. About $15 million was to come 14 from general revenue and about 4 million from 15 trust funds. 16 However, the project was discontinued in 17 January of 2001 in part because of the 18 initiative which was announced to outsource the 19 human resources component which would have been 20 a major part of the IFMS project. 21 Once a decision was made to outsource the 22 human resources component, it made sense to 23 stop, pull back, look at what we were doing and 24 decide what makes the most sense going forward
25 at that point.
2 recommendation was submitted to the legislature 3 for replacement of the FLAIR Cash Management 4 and LASPBS systems. I refer to this as the 5 Limited IFMS. It was a 45 million-dollar 6 recommendation in the budget. $45 million was 7 to be derived, in part $15 million from savings 8 to be generated from the HR outsourcing 9 initiative; about $7 million from trust funds 10 and $25 million from general revenue. 11 The legislature did not approve that 12 recommendation because they wanted an 13 additional study. The legislature commissioned 14 the Gardner Group to perform additional study 15 regarding the proposed FLAIR replacement and 16 CMS replacement initiatives. 17 In addition, the legislature also 18 appropriated a million dollars to complete what 19 then became as known as Services and Activities 20 Project, which is just a continuation of the 21 core business processes analyses which was an 22 essential prerequisite to the new chart of 23 accounts. 24 Separately the Department of Banking and
25 Finance commissioned KPMG Consulting to do an
2 Case Study that was done, looking at the 3 question of whether it made sense to go forward 4 and just replace the FLAIR subsystem and also 5 the Cash Management System. Likewise, Deloitte 6 Consulting came in and looked at the same 7 question and both of those studies were 8 favorable. 9 Consequently, this year, this fiscal year 10 the General Appropriations Act calls for 11 replacement of the FLAIR and Cash Management 12 Systems and $36 million has been provided in 13 the budget. 14 In summary, the estimated completion time 15 of the project as presently constituted is two 16 years. The estimated completion cost is about 17 $72 million, plus financing. 18 This compares favorably with the estimated 19 cost and time of completion of the IFMS project 20 which would have been in its entirety something 21 in the magnitude of $270 million and would have 22 taken four to five years to complete. The 23 Limited IFMS project that was recommended two 24 years ago would have been a project
25 approximately two to three years in duration
2 dollars. 3 This year's appropriation of $36 million 4 includes only $2 million of general revenue. 5 The rest of the money is to be obtained through 6 financing, specifically through the 7 Consolidated Equipment Finance Program. 8 To date, significant progress has been 9 made since July 1st when technically the 10 appropriation became operative. The 11 independent project manager -- an independent 12 project manager, that being Maximus, has been 13 retained, and we have had three to four people 14 from the Maximus Group that are working full 15 time on the project. 16 A governance structure has been 17 established and is presently operative. It 18 includes the Core Management Group I referred 19 to previously, a Project Management Advisory 20 Group that also includes representation from 21 the universities, from the Department of 22 Management Services, from the State Technology 23 Office, in order to assure that issues of 24 interface are given the proper level of
25 attention at the highest level in the
2 We have a Financial Oversight and Policy 3 Group consisting principally of the budgeteers 4 from the Appropriations Committee and also from 5 OPP that we meet with on a monthly basis that 6 reviews the status of the project and closely 7 scrutinizes what we are doing and not doing. 8 We also have something called Team FLAIR. 9 Team FLAIR consists of 30 subject matter 10 experts from our department principally and 11 also the Department of Insurance that are 12 working on the project and will be involved in 13 various stages of the project. 14 All of them are not working now at the 15 same time; but once we get into the 16 implementation stage, many of them will be 17 working full time and this will be their 18 number 1 priority. 19 We have completed the first draft of a 20 detailed operational work plan that will soon 21 be submitted to the financial oversight and 22 policy group. We are in the process of 23 developing the new account code structure that 24 will be necessary and is desirable for the new
25 system.
2 that was attended by 40 persons on each day 3 participating in the development of the new 4 account code structure. 5 Functional requirements for the system, 6 which are also functional requirements that are 7 necessary for the ITN that would be issued for 8 the major procurements, are presently under 9 review by stakeholders and system users. This 10 is a multiagency effort. 11 The FLAIR User Group, which consists of 12 approximately seven people from various 13 agencies, has been looking at these, in 14 addition to our own internal work group, our 15 Team FLAIR people, and more recently we have 16 constituted an interagency work group really 17 that has been formed pursuant to a letter that 18 the board members issued to the various 19 agencies asking for agency coordinators to be 20 designated. 21 We had a meeting recently of this group, 22 60 people roughly were in attendance. They 23 will be participating in helping us develop the 24 necessary requirements. They will be involved
25 in some of the evaluation challenges we will
2 be actively involved in training and in 3 transition as we moved to the new system. 4 We have looked at a number of different 5 options regarding software procurement, and at 6 this time I could say that it is our present 7 intention to proceed with a highly competitive 8 joint procurement of software and 9 implementation of a vendor that will be based 10 on the presentation of detailed software 11 designs, based on detailed sets of requirements 12 and specifications and a fixed price. This is 13 consistent with the suggestion that was given 14 to us by Treasurer Gallagher. 15 Remaining milestones: We would like to 16 have completed in October the new account code 17 structure and the functional and technical 18 requirements, and would hopefully be in a 19 position to commence the procurement process 20 for the major cost drivers for the project in 21 October. 22 Presently we are hopeful that we could 23 complete the procurement process of the 24 software and the implementation vendor by the
25 end of this fiscal year. There is no magic to
2 time or additional time anyway to do the 3 implementation process. 4 It may be that we are going to take some 5 more time at the front end to make sure that we 6 have a detailed and careful procurement in 7 order to assure we reduce any risks at the back 8 end that the project is not going to be 9 developed precisely to meet our needs and 10 precisely on time and within budget. 11 So it may be that we are going to extend 12 the procurement process beyond -- it may be 13 necessary to extend the procurement process 14 beyond the end of the year into the first two 15 months of next year. But when that process is 16 completed, by taking the additional time now we 17 think we are going to save a lot of time and 18 reduce a lot of risks going forward for the 19 remainder of the project. 20 Ideally, by December of 2003 we would like 21 to complete implementation and quality 22 assurance testing and begin user training to 23 allow for roughly a six-month period for 24 training and transition, with an eye towards
25 going live on July 1st of 2004.
2 does call specifically for a two-year 3 implementation period which is why we have 4 established the dates of these milestones. 5 Having said that, I would be remiss if I 6 did not mention that some concern has been 7 raised by members of the Financial Oversight 8 and Policy Group regarding these time lines. 9 And in part, it is because of the other 10 initiatives going on. 11 This is an aggressive schedule, and 12 standing alone it could be accomplished, it can 13 be accomplished. 14 That having been said is not standing 15 alone. We have the HR outsourcing project 16 that's going to require a significant amount of 17 interface requirements, and also it raises 18 technical issues and will require a significant 19 training. 20 The procurement issue is also going to be 21 coming on line, and that is going to require 22 significant interface challenges and also 23 significant training. Something that we really 24 need to be giving some thought to is how we are
25 going to simultaneously train 25 to 30 to
2 We also have the issue of the 3 universities. As was stated by Mr. Young, the 4 universities are scheduled to drop off the 5 FLAIR System on or before July 1, 2004. Some 6 of them will be dropping off on July 1, 2004. 7 If there should be any problem with them 8 getting their systems up and running in a 9 timely fashion, there is the risk that we would 10 be compelled to continue to maintain the FLAIR 11 System at the same time we're pushing real hard 12 to get the new system on line. 13 So there has been some suggestion that it 14 might be advisable to think in terms of 15 spreading out somewhat the time period for 16 completion, which frankly would be more 17 consistent with what our original proposal was. 18 That would go a long way towards reducing 19 any risks that would be associated with trying 20 to do too much, too soon, and it would further 21 assure that the left hand and the right hand 22 are working together in implementing the 23 enterprise approach which has been the really 24 overriding objective to be accomplished here.
25 In conclusion, the project is on time and
2 is achievable. 3 That having been said, we are closely 4 reviewing and will continue to be reviewing 5 time constraints consistent with the 6 fundamental premises that we know we ought to 7 do, we know how we want to do it; we want to 8 make sure we do this in the most cost efficient 9 manner that can be obtained, consistent with 10 the other outstanding initiatives so they all 11 will work together for the common purposes that 12 are intended. 13 I will be glad to answer any questions 14 that any members of the board may wish to 15 present. 16 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Before we maybe get into 17 some questions, I at least would like to comment 18 on the cooperation that we have gotten from 19 agencies throughout the state, and it's been 20 extraordinary, I think, Art, and certainly we 21 appreciate and Art appreciates and the people that 22 are trying to get their arms around this thing 23 appreciate the great support we had from all state 24 agencies has been terrific.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: The beautiful part is
2 manage what government is purchasing for both the 3 Governor's Office and Management Budget and 4 Legislative Budget people as well as individual 5 managers of the departments, to really know where 6 their money is going and how, which is just 7 impossible today. 8 We start off with a continuation budget in 9 every single budget item and nobody knows 10 what's in those holes. And this will allow 11 that knowledge, and that's going to make it I 12 think much more efficient. 13 I would be willing to bet there -- I can 14 bet on 1 billion, but there is probably more 15 that than that -- most of us would look at and 16 say why are we doing that, and there is 17 probably no good reason, but we know it's 18 there, which is pretty tough. But we have to 19 face that fact and it's going to take this kind 20 of system to be able to figure out where it all 21 is. 22 I am real excited. I am interested in 23 seeing it move as fast a method as we can. 24 I appreciate, Art, your working with the
25 proposal that I made. It was my goal to start
2 just wondering, we are working pretty close 3 with Maximus on doing this. Is their job sort 4 of to write this -- I don't know whether would 5 it be a request for proposal at this point? 6 You have been saying discuss -- 7 MR. SIMON: We are starting tomorrow morning 8 at 8 o'clock. We are meeting with your staff and 9 our staff and the Maximus staff, and we are going 10 to start right away to see how much we can 11 accomplish. 12 We are going to have to do this in 13 conformity with the procurement laws in 14 Florida, so we are going to be looking at with 15 your staff and your attorneys and our staff and 16 our attorneys to find a way to move this as 17 quickly as we can but still to stay within 18 those confines. 19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Right. How long -- the 20 writing of the document, Maximus is going to help 21 us on that? 22 MR. SIMON: Yes, we already have a team in 23 place that is starting to work on what I call 24 contractual issues. We are talking about
25 preparation of an ITN and also a proposed
2 we already have people working on. 3 The one that we spoke about recently that 4 may take up a little bit more time is the 5 requirement specification, because when we 6 issue this out to bid, we want a fixed price 7 coming back. 8 And to get the fixed price coming back we, 9 we really have to tell them with specificity 10 what we want them to build. And that is still 11 in the process, and that in part is what we 12 have representatives from all these different 13 agencies providing input on so we don't start 14 building it only to find out that an agency 15 comes back and says: Well, you forgot to do 16 this or you didn't do that, or you didn't 17 consider this, you didn't consider that. It 18 may take a little bit more time, but it will be 19 time well spent and we can make up the time on 20 the long-term. 21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: My thought was that we 22 would take the software provider, as you 23 mentioned, with whoever they pick to be their 24 implementer, because software is about 8 million,
25 9 million in implementation, so it's huge; the
2 together as opposed to separate, because separate 3 is when it doesn't come off on time or correctly, 4 and all of a sudden you have implementer pointing 5 at software, software pointing at implementer, and 6 we got nobody to blame. And I just want us to 7 have one person to blame. It's the software and 8 implementer together in a contract with us. 9 And so, I appreciate you going there. 10 Also, in the competition of designing the 11 architecture of this system, it was my goal 12 that we have two or three competitors doing 13 this all at once, with us putting input as they 14 go on a weekly basis. And it looked to me like 15 many of these issues that you are talking about 16 trying to -- I am nervous that we have a -- we 17 think we have a final deal of what the 18 expectations are, when we should be getting 19 input from the providers, and we should be 20 giving them input over this what, I perceive to 21 be about a 12-week period, so when we get to 22 the end of that 12 weeks, which would be in 23 December, we would have learned a lot on what 24 they can and can't do by their architectural
25 designs, and we'll learn from each one. They
2 all of our agency people on what's needed. 3 Because I know that even if we thought we 4 did it all today, because we got all the input 5 from everybody, when you start going into the 6 architecture of this system, you are going to 7 learn more things that somebody forgot, we 8 didn't know they could do it, whatever. 9 And so I don't want to really start this 10 project with a this-is-it, period, and this is 11 when we want to price it in. I think we need 12 to be learning as we go and at the very end 13 say: Okay, now this is the architecture that 14 we want and this is the provider; we want the 15 final prices from you all, that type of thing. 16 So I don't know whether I am consistent or 17 inconsistent. 18 MR. SIMON: If I may. We understand what 19 your vision and what your model is. We think a 20 model of that nature certainly can be implemented 21 and is highly desirable. 22 We think that, based on the initial 23 analysis that has been provided to us by 24 Maximus and based on our initial review of some
25 of our procurement constraints we have to
2 time to do it, but we think it would be time 3 well spent. 4 We are going to start immediately tomorrow 5 morning to start flushing out those issues and 6 I will report back to you on a recurring basis 7 as we are developing it to see how fast we can 8 get it going to accomplish what you want us to 9 do and what we want to do as well. 10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Art, you used the term 11 request for proposals. Commissioner Gallagher, 12 Treasurer Gallagher, described something I would 13 define as an invitation to negotiate. 14 MR. SIMON: We are thinking in terms of an 15 invitation to negotiate, which would be a 16 competitive process, but -- 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Work in progress to the 18 point -- 19 MR. SIMON: Yeah, it would not require the 20 degree of specificity that a request for proposal 21 would. It would allow us some flexibility during 22 that invitation to negotiate, to work our way 23 through some of these type of issues we are 24 talking about.
25 But it is a competitive process and still
2 specificity that those who are bidding on it 3 are each bidding on the same thing on a true 4 competitive basis. 5 So that's really what -- our next 6 objective is to sit down and start working 7 through the design of the invitation to 8 negotiate so we can get started on this as soon 9 as we can. 10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: We have some people 11 from Maximus here. Can we hear from them? 12 MR. SIMON: Yes. Mr. Gray. 13 MR. GRAY: Thank you, Governor, members of 14 the board. 15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I would like -- are you 16 familiar with a memo I sent out? 17 MR. GRAY: Yes. 18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Could you give me an 19 idea of how long you think it takes to put 20 together this kind of proposal? You guys have 21 done this in other states? 22 MR. GRAY: Not exactly that method, but we 23 are familiar with that method from working with 24 other states.
25 And I think the issue that we are trying
2 be on what Art is referring to as the statement 3 of the requirement. We agree with you, we 4 don't want to have this detailed exercise. 5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I don't want to lock us 6 into something and people say: You didn't tell us 7 you wanted this. I want it to grow as we give 8 input and they give us input, and over 12 weeks or 9 so everybody learns a heck of a lot from 10 everybody. 11 MR. GRAY: That's exactly so. What we are 12 trying to do now is draft the language of the ITN 13 within the Florida procurement statutes. 14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Which is a challenge, I 15 am sure. 16 MR. GRAY: And define just enough specificity 17 so the vendor knows who to bring to the party. Do 18 they need to bring their procurement guy, 19 interface guy, who do they need to bring? 20 They bring their team in for what we call 21 teamwork sessions, for lack of a better word; 22 that's a term they used in Michigan. And we 23 have this weekly discipline process where we 24 work through the chart of accounts week one;
25 accounts payable, week two; general vouchers,
2 state's requirements, and they design their 3 blueprint of the system, if I may use that 4 term. 5 At the end of the process, they present 6 their blueprint, to you if you like to see it, 7 to the operating -- the core management group, 8 and they present their implementation plan and 9 a fixed price schedule. 10 At that point I think we'll have as close 11 as we can to an ironclad contract and statement 12 of specifications, to protect the state from 13 any unknown requirements that are suddenly 14 discovered later in the process. That's the 15 goal. 16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You are comfortable 17 with being able to work with this? 18 MR. GRAY: Yes. 19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Great job, Art. 21 I think we are -- I am excited about it. 22 I really hope that we are able to continue with 23 the funding of it because it -- every year we 24 hold off is less chance to get into the budget
25 and figure out how much savings it really is.
2 it is a hundred million dollars almost. 3 GENERAL MILLIGAN: You have to really also 4 recognize that this is a system that's literally 5 being held together by bale and wire. 6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Around 20 years ago we 7 were working on -- I think we were like looking 8 into the future of maybe a 20 billion-dollar 9 budget. Now -- 10 GENERAL MILLIGAN: It's under stress, 11 surviving, but you never know, Tom. 12 GOVERNOR BUSH: June 2004. There is a motion 13 to accept the report. 14 MR. YOUNG: It was just a presentation. 15 We are on to item 4 now which is an item 16 we do need to get approval on; request approval 17 of the FFMIS Information Technology Strategic 18 Plan. 19 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Move. 20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second. 21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 22 objection, the item is approved. Thank you. 23 24
25
2 Administration. 3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the minutes. 4 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Seconded. 5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 6 objection, item number 1 is approved. 7 MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 2 is request for 8 approval of fiscal sufficiency of an amount not 9 exceeding 10 million, State of Florida, Florida 10 Board of Education, Florida Atlantic University 11 parking facility revenue bonds. This item is 12 recommended for board approval. 13 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Move. 14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second. 15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without 16 objection, the item passes. 17 MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 3, Florida State Board 18 of Administration requests approval of a budget 19 amendment for 2OO2-2003. The purpose of the 20 request is to add a new position, inspector 21 general, and expenses related to the creation of 22 Office of Inspector General of the State Board of 23 Administration. 24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
25 GENERAL MILLIGAN: Second.
2 objection, the item passes. 3 MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 4 is the DC status 4 report. This is our 19th report, which includes 5 DC statistical report; it's for information only. 6 I would just like to tell you that the 7 report does summarize DC implementation today, 8 and it's just difficult -- the report has been 9 updated through August 24. There are 10 11 percent of the electors who have chosen the 11 investment plan, bringing in a total of 12 65 million in assets from state employees in 13 this first phase. 14 Also, activity is increased through our 15 increased efforts through August. We now have 16 25 percent state employees who have made 17 elections, and we expect a very busy week this 18 week. 19 Ernst & Young and City Street are actually 20 going to be open for business on Saturday, 21 which will be the last day of enrollment for 22 state employees. 23 As of yesterday, we received a thousand 24 calls, Ernst & Young did, and 2,000 election
25 forms were received; so it's picking up through
2 And a final reminder did go out last week 3 with pin numbers for all employees that have 4 not filed elections. Both City Street and 5 Ernst & Young will open again for business on 6 Saturday night. 7 The school district outreach is continuing 8 workshops through September and 125,000 mailbox 9 stuffers are being delivered by the Florida 10 Education Association, and workshop 11 registration has commenced. 12 That's the update on the Define 13 Contribution Implementation. 14 Item number 5, is a report by the 15 executive director, which is the fund activity 16 analysis for the month. 17 GOVERNOR BUSH: We need a notion? 18 MR. STIPANOVICH: No, information only. 19 Item 5 is the report, executive director 20 fund analysis report for the month of June, 21 information only. 22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Accept the report. 23 MR. STIPANOVICH: Item 6 is Public Funds 24 Investment Protection Principles.
25 Public Funds Investment Protection
2 protect state taxpayer and public pension funds 3 from the risks of conflicts of interest and 4 make corporations more accountable. 5 As public institutional investors 6 responsible for the safekeeping of taxpayer and 7 retirement funds belonging to millions of 8 Americans, states are joining together to adopt 9 these principles because of deception and lack 10 of integrity that have shaken the confidence in 11 our financial markets. 12 These Investment Protection Principles are 13 important steps in the right direction because 14 it commits public pension funds, which control 15 more than a trillion dollars, to use our power 16 in the marketplace to bring about strong and 17 meaningful changes and reforms. 18 At the appropriate time, if you adopt the 19 principles, the State Board Administration will 20 work with other states as never before to 21 demand integrity among corporate executives and 22 board of directors, to deter unscrupulous 23 business practices, strengthen the 24 accountability to investors and shareholders,
25 and bring about a renewed faith in the
2 The SBA staff is currently seeking to 3 identify problematic areas so that we may work 4 with other states to promote consistency in the 5 application of these principles to the fullest 6 extent possible, without compromising fiduciary 7 responsibilities. 8 We expect to have a recommendation for you 9 to act on at the next Cabinet meeting. Today 10 we are simply presenting this agenda for item 11 discussion only until we complete our analysis. 12 Today with your aides, which we completed 13 late last night, I dropped off a briefing book, 14 and this is the briefing book, that you all 15 will now have. 16 We have met with our consultants. As you 17 have seen from a previous memo we have met -- 18 we have talked to and sent out letters to our 19 broker/dealers and our investment managers and 20 we also plan tomorrow morning to meet at 10:30 21 with Don Saxon and the comptroller's office, 22 Financial and Securities, as well as the 23 Attorney General's office, and I believe 24 Richard Durling is going to be involved in that
25 meeting.
2 before we make the recommendation. And again, 3 we'll have more interaction with these 4 investment bankers, money managers and other 5 states before we move forward. 6 Essentially, what you have is two sets of 7 principles. The first part, as you see in the 8 Investment Protection Principles that was 9 forwarded to you in the form of an attachment 10 to a memorandum, deals with the broker dealers. 11 And there seems to be no push back and that 12 doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of moving 13 forward and adopting those principles. 14 More importantly, the New York Stock 15 Exchange and NSD has recently adopted rules, 16 promulgated rules and regulations, that pretty 17 much cover the gamut as these principles go, 18 and that will be fully implemented as of 19 November of this year. 20 However, it still speaks volumes if we 21 were to endorse those principles because of the 22 magnitude of money that we do manage and run 23 through these accounts, to send them a message 24 that: If you are going to do business with the
25 State of Florida and other states around the
2 full disclosure, without conflicts of interest, 3 or it's going to hit you in the pocketbook; as 4 well as you may go to jail because of the NSD 5 and Securities Exchange and New York Stock 6 Exchange. 7 The second set of principles which deals 8 with the money managers, we have identified one 9 principle, and it's really kind of the first 10 principle that is most problematic, and that's 11 something we think we can work around, but that 12 has to do with confidentiality of clients and 13 disclosure of their names. But we think we can 14 figure out a way to work around that without 15 violating that confidentiality agreement. 16 We have that in our contracts, so that is 17 certainly nothing unusual. 18 And that's pretty much it. Principles 5 19 and 6 again is another one that's a little bit 20 of a push back, but again, we think we can work 21 through that. 22 And that just really has to do with 23 governance issues, where they are a little 24 uncomfortable in terms of trying to take on
25 these third-party responsibilities to kind of
2 they say. Again, that's being addressed at 3 another level with what is being required of 4 what the CFOs and the CEOs sign in terms of 5 this document. 6 And finally, we will be looking at ways to 7 enforce this, to have compliance so that this 8 dog has teeth and can be successful. 9 So that's where we are. And we will be 10 coming back to you all with a recommendation, 11 but this is certainly the right step in the 12 right direction in protecting investors and 13 restoring confidence in the financial markets. 14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any comments? 15 GENERAL MILLIGAN: I appreciate the efforts. 16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I agree. 17 MR. STIPANOVICH: We did meet, as you know in 18 the memo sent to you and an article, we did meet 19 in New York. There is a list of public funds that 20 were attendance -- 15, 17 public funds -- where we 21 met at the invitation of Comptroller Carl McCall 22 in New York and Phil Angelides, the Treasurer in 23 California, and the treasurer Richard Moore in 24 North Carolina, who have adopted these principles
25 and are encouraging other states to adopt these
2 in New York and there was a statement that was 3 released, which we signed onto, generally just the 4 spirit of moving forward in this direction. 5 That's the end of the item number 7. 6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much, Coleman. 7 (The proceedings concluded at 1:22 p.m..) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25
2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 3 4 5 6 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 7 COUNTY OF LEON ) 8 9 I, SANDRA L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR, certify that I 10 was authorized to and did stenographically report the 11 proceedings herein, and that the transcript is a true 12 and complete record of my stenographic notes. 13 I further certify that I am not a relative, 14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties, 15 nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' 16 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I 17 financially interested in the action. 18 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 3rd 19 day of September, 2002. 20 21 22 ______________________________
23 SANDRA L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR |
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