The Governor and Cabinet - Florida Department of State

THE CABINET

STATE OF FLORIDA

_____________________________________________________

Representing:

ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
STATE BOARD OF TRUSTEES
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION

The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush presiding,
in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03, The Capitol,
Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday, May 7, 2002 commencing
at approximately 10:00 a.m.

Reported by:

SANDRA L. NARGIZ

Registered Professional Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301 (850)878-2221

2
APPEARANCES:

Representing the Florida Cabinet:

JEB BUSH
Governor

KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State

ROBERT F. MILLIGAN
Comptroller

CHARLES H. BRONSON
Commissioner of Agriculture

BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General

CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education

TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer

* * *

3
I N D E X

ITEM ACTION PAGE
ADMINISTRATION COMMISSION
(Presented by Teresa Tinker)

ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 4

STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
(Presented by Wayne Pierson)

ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 5
2 Remanded 29
3 Remanded 29
4 Approved 30
5 Approved 30
6 Approved 31

STATE BOARD OF TRUSTEES
(Presented by Eva Armstrong)

ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 32
2 Approved 32
3 Approved 33
4 Approved 33
5 Approved 34
6 Approved 35
7 Approved 35
8 Withdrawn 35
9 Approved 63

STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
(Presented by Tom Herndon)

ITEM ACTION PAGE
1 Approved 64
2 Approved 64
3 Report 65
4 Report 67
5 Approved 71
6 Approved 73
7 Approved 74
8 Withdrawn 74

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 76

4
1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (The agenda items commenced at approximately

3 10:00 a.m.)

4 GOVERNOR BUSH: The Parole Commissioner vote

5 will be deferred.

6 The next Cabinet meet be will be held May

7 21, 2002.

8 Administration Commission.

9 MS. TINKER: Good morning. Item 1, recommend

10 approval of the appointment of William Large to

11 serve as the Administrative Law Judge in the case

12 of Audrey Randolph versus of Division of

13 Administrative Hearings.

14 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Move.

15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.

16 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a

17 second. Any discussion? Without objection, it's

18 approved.

19 MS. TINKER: Thank you, sir.

5
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.

2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1 are minutes of the

3 March 12 Cabinet meeting.

4 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: So moved.

5 COMMISSIONER MILLIGAN: Second.

6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

7 objection, it's approved.

8 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 and 3 are both charter

9 school appeals for the same county. We would like

10 to take them together, if possible.

11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are they the same basic

12 issue?

13 MR. PIERSON: They are the same applicant in

14 the same county.

15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.

16 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is the Polk Charter

17 Foundation Academy High, and item 3 is the Polk

18 Charter Foundation Richfield Academy. They are

19 both versus Polk County School Board.

20 The appeal is brought to the State Board

21 pursuant to Section 228.056. The board has the

22 option of accepting the appeal or remanding it

23 back to the school board, or denying the appeal

24 and accepting the opinion of the school board.

25 Representing the charter school is Debbie

6
1 Hanley, and Wes Bridges is the school board

2 attorney for Polk County.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Big file. I hope we are not

4 going through all that.

5 MS. HANLEY: Good morning. I am Debbie

6 Hanley with the law firm of Tripp Scott, and I am

7 here today on behalf of Polk Charter Foundation.

8 Polk Charter Foundation filed two

9 applications on October 1st with the Polk

10 County School Board. Those applications were

11 denied on December 11th.

12 I can give you a brief recitation of the

13 facts if you would prefer or I could go

14 directly -- yes?

15 We started working, our client started

16 working on these applications back in April of

17 last year and initially had submitted a

18 multi-school, multi-year application in August

19 of 2001. The school board had requested that

20 we scale back the applications to two schools,

21 and we subsequently submitted two applications

22 on October 1st.

23 We supplemented the applications on

24 October 10th at the request of the school board

25 with regard to grade configuration and school

7
1 location. That was as a result of a work

2 session on October 9th.

3 On December 11th the school board voted to

4 deny the applications, and they sent a denial

5 letter setting forth their reasons for denial

6 on December 19th.

7 We brought our appeal mid January, 30 days

8 after we received the denial letter.

9 We initially filed our appeal, and we were

10 asked to resubmit it for procedural errors; so

11 this is basically the second time we brought

12 this appeal.

13 Those are the facts. And we are basically

14 requesting that the State Board of Education

15 remand the applications to Polk County School

16 Board with a written recommendation that the

17 applications be approved. And we are

18 requesting that on the basis of three factors.

19 First, the Polk County School Board failed

20 to approve or deny the applications within 60

21 days of their submission date of October 1st.

22 Second, the Polk County School Board

23 failed to deny the applications on the basis of

24 good cause.

25 And third, the Polk County School Board

8
1 failed to evaluate the applications on the same

2 basis used to evaluate other charter school

3 applications.

4 I am going to let you kind of guide me as

5 to how much time you want me to spend. I can

6 get into details on each of the three factors.

7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Bronson has a

8 question. We are pretty free-wielding around

9 here.

10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I want to know, how

11 many other places -- are you operating schools or

12 is your organization operating schools in other

13 areas of the state?

14 MS. HANLEY: The Polk Charter Foundation is

15 just those two schools. Charter Schools USA,

16 which is the management company, does operate

17 schools in other locations.

18 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Where are they

19 located?

20 MS. HANLEY: We have schools in Broward,

21 Miami-Dade. And this is Lisa Art from Charter

22 Schools USA.

23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I know they operate two

24 charter schools in two cities in Broward County.

25 MS. ART: Right. We also operate in Dade,

9
1 Broward, Lee County and Bay County currently.

2 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Did you have any -- I

3 saw what the school board had written down as a

4 denial. Did you have any of these problems in any

5 of those schools in the other counties that you

6 are operating out of?

7 MS. ART: No.

8 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Okay.

9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions? Perhaps

10 we should hear from the Polk County School

11 District representative, and stay close.

12 Good morning.

13 MR. BRIDGES: Good morning, Governor Bush,

14 Commissioner Crist, Members of the Cabinet, Wes

15 Bridges for the School Board of Polk County.

16 I do have a couple of issues. First off,

17 I would like so introduce Carolyn Finch, who is

18 our Director of School Choice for Polk County,

19 and arguably one of the very finest advocates

20 of choice in the State of Florida and does

21 charter work all over the state.

22 Actually I think the appeal that was filed

23 in this case was twofold, not threefold. It

24 did reference failure to approve or deny, or

25 failure to deny for good cause.

10
1 This is the first time that the issue of

2 failure to evaluate on the same basis as other

3 schools has been raised, and I am not sure what

4 the basis for that might be. I would certainly

5 categorically deny that.

6 But essentially, when this comes to you,

7 and from reading the materials that were

8 submitted, if their position is that they

9 submitted applications on the 1st of October,

10 then respectfully you as the State Board of

11 Education should send us all home and tell us

12 to get to work on next year.

13 Why is that? That is because if, in fact,

14 those applications came in on October 1st, we

15 had 60 days to act on them; didn't act on them

16 within 60 days, and they had an appellate time

17 after that. That appellate time ran and they

18 didn't file an appeal, and we are out of here.

19 So if the argument is we did not take action,

20 then we should not be here at all.

21 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you didn't take action,

22 wouldn't that be mean they would be granted the

23 charter?

24 MR. BRIDGES: No. Under the statute, if the

25 school board either denies or fails to act, the

11
1 failure to act is deemed a denial and the

2 appellate period runs during which they can appeal

3 from the State Board of Education. And that

4 appellate period would have run as of the end of

5 December.

6 So if that is the case, we have no basis

7 for being here and we should all go home and

8 get to work on it for next year.

9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why don't you want this -- a

10 lot of this stuff is technical; there must be a

11 practical reason as well, or if not, that would be

12 interesting to know.

13 MR. BRIDGES: Yes, sir, there are very

14 practical reasons and they are set out in the

15 materials that were provided.

16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you describe them?

17 MR. BRIDGES: The school board sent a

18 multi-page document in support of their denial of

19 this application. Some of the bigger factors in

20 this are, first off, this applicant does not seem

21 to give any or much consideration as to which

22 students they serve, where they are served or how

23 they are served.

24 The applications that came in, we

25 initially had seven; they came back. And not

12
1 at our request by the way; the school board had

2 given them some feedback and they elected to

3 come back and reduce their initial number of

4 applications from seven to two.

5 When those applications came to the school

6 board and were discussed, the school board

7 talked to them about where is the need for

8 schools in Polk County. Where would it be

9 advantageous to have schools?

10 They came back, made some changes of their

11 own volition and to their credit, but the

12 applications, when they came back, had some of

13 the same problems they had always had.

14 Number 1, there is no provision for

15 facilities in these applications. We don't

16 know where they would be. They propose to

17 build schools, there is no funding for sites,

18 and it takes time to build a school. There is

19 no way, based on these applications, that these

20 schools could be up and running this fall when

21 a charter school would be required to open

22 under last year's cycle.

23 Another big, transportation.

24 Transportation is an issue obviously in all

25 public schools. Money is tight.

13
1 Transportation is expensive. It's more

2 expensive in sight of what's happened statewide

3 and nationwide regarding desegregation. We

4 spend a lot of money on transportation. It's a

5 big thing.

6 Historically in Polk County we have been

7 able to work with many of our charter schools,

8 and we have many, to work with them and

9 contract with them to provide transportation.

10 Most of these schools are small. The

11 schools that are proposed are big. We do not

12 have the capacity to contract with these folks

13 to provide transportation.

14 Their application does not show any

15 evidence that would lead us to believe they

16 would have a likelihood of being able to

17 transport students.

18 Same thing with food service.

19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Can I ask a question?

20 If you're transporting the students somewhere now,

21 aren't you already paying for the transport of

22 those numbers of students?

23 MR. BRIDGES: Yes, sir, but there is a

24 distinction there; where we have zone schools and

25 we can control where buses go and make sure that

14
1 we can run them optimally with full capacity. And

2 also we have to work with bell schedules and which

3 schools start at what times.

4 So yes, there are dollars involved here,

5 but it has been demonstrated to our

6 satisfaction and our assistant superintendent

7 for transportation has developed figures to

8 show that the costs are simply such that we

9 could not absorb them. We just don't have the

10 resources to continually increase.

11 And every time we open a charter school,

12 we have to go back -- if we end up providing

13 transportation, we have to go back and realign

14 and provide the transportation into these

15 schools.

16 And once again, they don't have a zone

17 population. Students come from hither and yond

18 and we have to go back and add additional

19 factors to the calculus.

20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does the school district have

21 a requirement that they only bus for more than one

22 mile, less than three, or something like that?

23 MR. BRIDGES: We have the same requirements

24 that fall -- that's a statutory matter, Governor

25 Bush, and in general you have the 2-mile radius

15
1 from the school within which students would walk

2 unless the road conditions are hazardous. So we

3 have -- our standards are the same as other

4 districts would use.

5 GOVERNOR BUSH: If they are drawing from a

6 broader, not from your zone area, but a broader

7 area --

8 MR. BRIDGES: Right, it increases the costs.

9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Also you don't have to

10 provide transportation. If parents choose it,

11 they make accommodations, don't they, to get their

12 children there?

13 MR. BRIDGES: Some parents do, but we are

14 required -- in this case what we are talking about

15 is a situation, public schools where they have --

16 most of the charter schools, and certainly in Polk

17 County, contract with the district for that

18 purpose. And the legislature, I think, spelled

19 out some time ago their philosophy that if you are

20 not providing transportation, you are really not

21 providing choice. It's part and parcel.

22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: How many charter

23 schools do you have approved?

24 MR. BRIDGES: We have 15.

25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: How many?

16
1 MR. BRIDGES: 15.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: 15 have been approved?

3 MR. BRIDGES: Yes. I believe -- let's see

4 here. We have 17 that are approved; I believe we

5 have 15 that are up and running.

6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. In my opinion,

7 one, I have visited the schools that this company

8 operates in Broward County, and I can tell you

9 they are very fine institutions, doing an

10 excellent job.

11 And I have looked through the department's

12 summary, the technical assistance paper done by

13 Alex Penn-Williams, and pretty much as I read

14 through here, each one of the issues -- mission

15 and purpose -- it gives the school's

16 credibility by describing their qualifications;

17 and the second one says academic design and

18 support for learning, curriculum appears to be

19 horizontally and vertically aligned with

20 sunshine standards. Student performance

21 accountability, applicant has set forth

22 measurable academic achievement goals and

23 objectives; governance and management,

24 applicant delineates a plan and assures Polk

25 County representation on the school's governing

17
1 boards; operations, again meets criteria.

2 Financing facilities, allows the sponsor to

3 enter into a 10-year contract with the charter

4 school and the district requires only a

5 three-year budget in its application criteria.

6 Technology, applications on that, methods

7 to be used, proposing to provide the school

8 district with a format of their choosing.

9 And financial hardship on the district,

10 and that's not withstanding the dollar amount,

11 it's not a just cause for denial.

12 So across the board in the technical

13 assistance paper, the recommendation from the

14 Department of Education is that we recommend

15 that these two schools be remanded to the

16 district and the district approve them.

17 I recommend for approval. And so it's my

18 desire to make that motion at this time.

19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?

20 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.

21 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question. Have

22 you seen this paper by Dr. Penn-Williams.

23 MR. BRIDGES: No.

24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Because I would like that

25 response.

18
1 In the past I think that we were very

2 comfortable with this company and their track

3 record. Is there a unique -- in terms, you

4 said the two, Polk County --

5 MR. BRIDGES: Yes, ma'am, I think first off

6 the two schools with which I am familiar with this

7 company has administered were done in partnership

8 with municipalities. And to me, that is a

9 manifestation of community support which does not

10 exist in this case.

11 They have come in clean and started up.

12 They started out with a variety of locations

13 and grade structures, and they have moved with

14 great facility from community to community,

15 grade structure to grade structure, without

16 bringing us any evidence that the communities

17 are interested.

18 And, in fact, the Haines City proposal,

19 the high school proposal there, was originally

20 pitched to the City of Haines City; they

21 originally expressed an interest in that. But

22 when their financial gurus got to looking at it

23 and realizing that 14 percent of the dollars

24 were going to be funnelled out for management

25 purposes and whatnot, Haines City started their

19
1 own commission, their own education commission

2 involving city and county governments as well

3 as local business, and they are interested in

4 starting a charter high school in Haines City.

5 But their feeling, my understanding of their

6 feeling is that they would like to do it

7 themselves, so they didn't lose 14 percent of

8 the revenues to an operating company.

9 So yes, there are distinctions between

10 what is being done in these other areas, and

11 it's also my understanding that at least the

12 high school in Lauderdale has been running

13 deeply in the red; and also, that they have had

14 a host of applications either declined this

15 year or which they have voluntarily withdrawn

16 to look for next year.

17 So all is not rosie with this

18 organization.

19 SECRETARY HARRIS: When was this analysis by

20 Dr. Penn-Williams completed, do you know? I would

21 be interested in that, to hear your response

22 because it sounds so conclusive; and I understand

23 we are very comfortable having worked with this

24 charter school in the past, but there some may be

25 aspects that haven't --

20
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: May 2nd, 2002, I think; at

2 least it says that on the back page.

3 SECRETARY HARRIS: It's unfortunate that you

4 haven't had a chance to see it to be able to

5 respond to it.

6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask a question of the

7 applicant?

8 If you all have a site -- if you haven't

9 started building because you haven't gotten

10 your charter, it seems like it would be next to

11 impossible to have 1,200 students in a 900

12 student school ready to go by August.

13 MS. ART: It would be extremely difficult;

14 optimal from our perspective.

15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Impossible if you are

16 starting from scratch, right?

17 MS. ART: Actually, I actually have done it

18 before. I opened another charter in Polk County

19 in 1997. They got approved actually the 1st of

20 June and opened August 2nd.

21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you build a building?

22 MS. ART: I renovated an existing building.

23 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am just talking about the

24 practicality, unless you are -- are you going to

25 take an existing building in this case?

21
1 MS. ART: We would like to.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: For a thousand people?

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kids? Where are you going to

4 find a facility?

5 MS. ART: What we planned to do, because of

6 the delay, because of the necessity for this

7 process, is we would like to open -- we would like

8 to open with a smaller number of students, and

9 then scale it up next year when we can get into a

10 bigger facility.

11 And we have done that in several of our

12 schools. In fact, we are doing that, we have a

13 school in Lee County that will be 900 students

14 next year; it will be 360 this year. We worked

15 with the district for a roll up, for their

16 purposes as much as ours. Just for

17 clarification, that's not a municipality

18 school.

19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor, one of the

20 things that the attorney for the board mentioned

21 was the facilities issue. Have you been able to

22 identify a facility that you could renovate?

23 MS. ART: I looked at several facilities in

24 Haines City and examined what the zoning,

25 appropriate zoning was, and got some bids on some

22
1 renovation.

2 And then when the applications got denied,

3 we put that on hold to see what would happen.

4 We also at one point had a developer who

5 was offering up to lease us or to donate a

6 piece of land at no cost.

7 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I can tell you,

8 Governor, I visited the high school, Haines City

9 High School, and it's pretty crowded. And in

10 meeting with some people in the community there,

11 they were very interested in additional

12 facilities.

13 I am not saying specifically that they

14 mentioned this alternative, but I know they are

15 frustrated with the facility and would like to

16 have some relief.

17 That's why I seconded Mr. Gallagher's

18 motion.

19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Let me also mention

20 that -- and I want to give Polk County credit

21 where credit is due for bringing in school match

22 to good get a good look at and an unbiased look at

23 what's happening in Polk County schools because

24 they do an excellent major. And Lake Ledger had

25 an article on Sunday that sort of spelled out some

23
1 of the things that they found. They didn't name

2 the schools, but I am sure the Department of

3 Education will do that when they do the grading

4 this year.

5 But what they found that there is some

6 extraordinary ineffective schools, and at the

7 same time there is a handful of the worst

8 performing and at the same time there are some

9 really great schools that really outperform.

10 So you have Haines City High School, which

11 has been trying to raise itself from a D; it

12 had some very low numbers in the school report

13 In reading, the 10th graders ranked 23 in

14 reading where an acceptable rank is 59.

15 And the school officials, of course, point

16 to schools that are turning around the low test

17 schools, which is great.

18 I just I want to congratulate Polk County

19 for doing that because I know it will make a

20 difference in the counties that have done that

21 before. School Match does a great job and

22 consultants do a great job.

23 But I made the motion earlier because I

24 really feel that there is a plus to having

25 these charter schools. And I think just to

24
1 turn them down because you are worried about

2 having too many or too many run by one company

3 or those kind of things is not a good enough

4 reason to do it.

5 So I am ready to take up the motion.

6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion? This

7 is a -- personally, I think it's going to be a

8 heck of a challenge, even if it's remanded back

9 and you all approve it, to set up a school from

10 scratch; having tried to do one myself, to get it

11 done in the summertime, two months to hire the

12 teachers, recruit the students and all that, it

13 will be a real challenge.

14 But that's going to be between --

15 depending on what we do here, that will be

16 between you and the school district. Any other

17 discussion?

18 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have one more question.

19 But go ahead.

20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I just want to point

21 out one thing; that even if we remand it the way

22 it is, the school board is going to go ahead and

23 appeal it anyway. So unfortunately these people

24 aren't going to get a chance this year to open a

25 school most likely. But that doesn't mean that we

25
1 shouldn't send it back with a positive

2 recommendation so they can get open.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's right.

4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And work on it in the

5 future.

6 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think this company has

7 such an excellent track record, I think we are all

8 influenced by that. We have seen good performing

9 schools.

10 I think in this case it sounds uniquely

11 different, having listened to Polk County. On

12 the other hand, Polk County has an incredible

13 record at opening charter schools. I don't

14 think it's because they didn't want more or

15 anything else. I didn't hear any testimony to

16 that accord.

17 But based on the recommendation of Dr.

18 Penn-Williams, I am going to vote for this. I

19 don't think -- I don't see how it's going to

20 feasibly be possible to open a school prior to

21 August, not at all with the due process and

22 everything that occurs when it goes back. But

23 at least we'll be supporting of charter

24 schools.

25 What is the process now, Commissioner?

26
1 What happens now if we remand it back and they

2 don't have time to open?

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: They don't open.

4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It won't get opened,

5 and the idea is that the school board will have to

6 take this issue up again.

7 It's certainly -- their setup, according

8 to the technical assistance paper we have, most

9 the questions have all been answered, and they

10 should be able to get up and running next year,

11 if they wouldn't let them start a small one

12 this year.

13 And I expect that a small one this year

14 won't happen, but I really do feel strong about

15 sending a message back and hopefully they will

16 take it up. The law is getting changed, so if

17 they don't approve it next year, the other

18 school, state school board will have the

19 authority to set it up.

20 So it will be a different, a whole

21 different issue next year. So I recommend they

22 get started rather than get it hammered on

23 next.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth.

25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Just a

27
1 technical question about the technical assistance

2 paper.

3 This is something which is not in the

4 record and I guess the school board is just

5 finding out about it today. So we are

6 basically going outside of the record in order

7 to make a determination.

8 So I think what you are doing is you are

9 giving the school board a very good appeal

10 right here, just basically because as the

11 Secretary stated, since she determined her

12 decision on Dr. Penn-Williams' paper here, I

13 think that just makes this thing very, very

14 appealable.

15 And I am not quite sure we are not going

16 outside where we should be. But if what

17 Commissioner Gallagher is saying, they are

18 going to appeal anyway, it doesn't make any

19 difference.

20 SECRETARY HARRIS: General Butterworth, in

21 the future -- and again, it will be a different

22 process next year, but it seems when we do ask for

23 this kind of technical assistance, that it should

24 be done in a timeframe so they have an opportunity

25 to respond, because that's so conclusive, and it

28
1 would have meant a lot more to me if I could have

2 heard the discussion on the other side of why they

3 would agree or not agree.

4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have a

5 problem --

6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Is somebody telling us

7 that this paper was not given to Polk County?

8 SECRETARY HARRIS: I asked; they did not

9 receive it.

10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But these technical

11 assistance papers don't get given to the school

12 district anyway?

13 SECRETARY HARRIS: I don't know the answer to

14 that, but it wasn't today.

15 GOVERNOR BUSH: You didn't receive it?

16 MS. HANLEY: Neither party received it.

17 MR. BRIDGES: We had no knowledge of its

18 existence.

19 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's a summary of what's in

20 the record, but it's part of the record if it's

21 provided.

22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I suggest it's

23 not. If we make a decision up here, whatever

24 decision you make up here, you are better off not

25 referring to this document. If you refer to this

29
1 document, I think -- I am just a country lawyer,

2 but it could be a problem.

3 SECRETARY HARRIS: My decision was solely

4 based on that document.

5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Let me restate for my

6 motion; if I may restate my motion. I would like

7 to move, based on my understanding of this issue,

8 and my motion is to remand it to the board for

9 their approval.

10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second? There

11 already is a second. This is on item 2 and 3.

12 All in favor say aye.

13 THE CABINET: Aye.

14 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?

15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.

16 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: No.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two no's.

18 SECRETARY HARRIS: I am going to say no, too.

19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three no's. Very good.

20 SECRETARY HARRIS: I changed my vote based on

21 the fact, because I was basing my vote on that

22 paper; and if you don't want to refer to the

23 paper, then I wouldn't have voted for it

24 otherwise.

25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all for coming and

30
1 continued success.

2 That was smart. That was right. You

3 handled that very well.

4 Item 4.

5 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is the appointment of

6 Larry R. Lancaster as a member of the District

7 Board Of Trustees, St. Johns River Community

8 College, succeeding Virginia H. Steinmetz, for a

9 term ending May 31, 2006.

10 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Move.

11 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion.

12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.

13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

14 objection, it's approved.

15 MR. PIERSON: And 5 is the reappointment of

16 Preston B. Sloan as a member of the Board of

17 Trustees, St. Johns River Community College, May

18 31, 2006.

19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Moved.

20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Seconded.

21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and second. Without

22 objection, it's approved.

23 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is the reappointment of

24 Barbara H. Cone as a member of the District Board

25 of Trustees, St. Johns Community River College,

31
1 term ending May 31, 2006.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Moved.

3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Seconded.

4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

5 objection, it's approved.

6 MR. PIERSON: Thank you.

7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.

32
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.

2 MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning, Eva Armstrong

3 representing the Department this morning. The

4 Secretary is out of town this week. He extends

5 his apologies.

6 Item 1 is the final rule repeal for

7 Chapter 18-8. This was a rule that was in

8 place when we had Preservation 2000 and CARL

9 and just felt with our acquisition, how we

10 select the projects we are going to work on.

11 We are repealing it because under Florida

12 Forever, it required us to do a new rule which

13 we already have in place with Florida Forever.

14 It's a housekeeping item.

15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.

16 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

18 objection, it's approved.

19 MS. ARMSTRONG: Item 2 is a nonexclusive

20 30-foot wide easement for private access and

21 utility services.

22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.

23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

25 objection, it's approved.

33
1 MS. ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 3 is an

2 option agreement for an acquisition within the

3 Dade County, Archipelago, Florida Forever project.

4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.

5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?

6 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.

7 THE WITNESS: Moved and seconded. Without

8 objection, it's approved.

9 MS. ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 4 is an

10 acquisition agreement for an acquisition within

11 the Critical CREW Project. This is a little

12 different.

13 Back in August of 2001, you delegated

14 staff the authority to make offers up to

15 125 percent of appraised value or $5,000 per

16 parcel, whichever was greater. The Water

17 Management District is doing these acquisitions

18 on your behalf and they bring this at

19 110 percent today.

20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on substitute

21 item 4.

22 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Seconded.

23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

24 objection, it's approved.

25 MS. ARMSTRONG: Item 5 is an application for

34
1 a five-year sovereignty submerged land lease.

2 This is in Brevard County; it was before you one

3 time before and we withdrew it from the item, the

4 agenda then because there was some pending

5 litigation over the Brevard County Manatee

6 Protection Plan.

7 They have completed the litigation which

8 has required that there be posting of new speed

9 zone signs. Those will be in effect before

10 phase 2 of this marine goes in place.

11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Moved.

12 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Seconded.

13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

14 objection, it's approved.

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Item 6 is.

16 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's good. We didn't have

17 a big, long debate; no people opposing, nobody

18 coming to fight.

19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: If you want a

20 fight --

21 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. Trust me, I get enough

22 on the e-mail on this particular subject in this

23 particular county.

24 MS. ARMSTRONG: Item 6 is an application for

25 a 10-year sovereignty submerged land lease. This

35
1 is in Duval County.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.

3 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Seconded.

4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

5 objection, it's approved.

6 Ditto on this one.

7 MS. ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 7 is a 30-day

8 Class IV Special Event sovereignty submerged land

9 lease for a temporary boat show.

10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on 7.

11 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Seconded.

12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

13 objection, it's approved.

14 MS. ARMSTRONG: Substitute item 8 we are

15 asking for withdrawal.

16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw.

17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to withdraw and a

19 second. Without objection, item is withdrawn.

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: On item 9, this is an

21 amendment to the prohibited water bodies list for

22 what is known as deadhead logging.

23 We have a series of speakers this morning.

24 We have Mike Sole, who is the Bureau Chief of

25 Beaches and Wetland Resources to give a brief

36
1 outline of the issue and then introduce the

2 speakers.

3 MR. SOLE: Good morning. This item requests

4 consideration of amendments to Attachment B of the

5 sovereignty submerged land use agreement for

6 recovery of precut submerged timbers, also known

7 as deadhead logs.

8 Attachment B is the list of prohibited

9 water bodies for removal of precut timbers.

10 These water bodies are identified based upon

11 their pristine nature or environmental

12 sensitivity that would preclude deadhead

13 logging in them.

14 Deadhead logging has a considerable

15 history with the Board of Trustees. Late

16 1800s, early 1900s in the heydays of timber

17 harvesting, loggers would frequently use the

18 water bodies in the northern portion of our

19 state to transport these logs. Approximately

20 10 percent or a small percentage of these logs

21 would sink and often would be abandoned or left

22 in place.

23 In time, the value of these submerged

24 timbers increased to a point where it was

25 economically viable to actually recover or

37
1 harvest them.

2 Up until 1974, the Board of Trustees

3 maintained a lease program authorizing recovery

4 of these logs. But at that time in 1974, due

5 to concerns raised by the predecessor

6 organization, the Fish and Wildlife

7 Conservation Commission, deadhead logging was

8 no longer authorized by the Board of Trustees.

9 And in the years to follow, unfortunately

10 deadhead logging went unabated and efforts of

11 enforcement were relatively unsuccessful.

12 This occurred or continued up until about

13 December 1998 when the issue of deadhead

14 logging was again brought before the Board of

15 Trustees. And based upon concerns or

16 alleviation of concerns of the Fish and

17 Wildlife Conservation Commission, the Board of

18 Trustees did again authorize recovery efforts.

19 At this point we really get to the

20 specifics of this item. In 1999, a gentleman

21 by the name of Mr. L.C. Pinson applied to

22 recover timber from Newnan's Lake, which is a

23 lake in Alachua County.

24 One month later, immediately after his

25 application, a moratorium was established on

38
1 acting on any new applications. This

2 moratorium was established based upon a concern

3 of some timbering or some deadhead logging

4 efforts and the environmental harm that was

5 being caused.

6 The Board of Trustees directed the

7 Department to reconvene the Technical Advisory

8 Committee and also improve BEST Management

9 Practices that were established for this

10 effort.

11 The Department did so and came back before

12 the Board of Trustees in April of 2000. And at

13 that point deadhead logging, based upon these

14 revised BEST Management Practices, was again

15 allowed to continue.

16 Immediately after that lift of the

17 moratorium, Mr. Pinson's application and use

18 agreement was acted on in May of 2000.

19 It's important to note that at the time

20 when we received the application, there was

21 water in the lake. But due to the four-month

22 hiatus, the lake bed actually went dry due to

23 the severe drought that we were having at the

24 time.

25 In issuing our permits, we issued the

39
1 permits based upon the conditions at the time

2 which was a dry lake bed. Mr. Pinson began

3 harvesting deadhead logs immediately after we

4 issued the permit. And simultaneous to his

5 efforts, a local high school, Eastside High,

6 was conducting an archaeological research

7 project. And lo and behold, they uncovered a

8 significant number of canoes in the northern

9 portion of the lake.

10 Mr. Pinson continues his efforts and

11 coordinated with the high school to make sure

12 that the resources were protected. However,

13 the significance of the find became a little

14 bit better known, and the Department of State

15 sent a professional archeologist to the site.

16 And at that time there was also some

17 allegations that Mr. Pinson's activities were

18 actually destroying or damaging some of the

19 canoes.

20 Based upon the Resource find and some of

21 the allegations, the Department requested that

22 Mr. Pinson cease his recovery activities and he

23 did so.

24 Shortly thereafter, we investigated the

25 allegations, both the Department and Fish and

40
1 Wildlife Conservation Commission, and found

2 there were no substantiations to those

3 allegations. However, the significance of the

4 find was still well-known and identified.

5 In fact, in March 2001, a 682-acre portion

6 of the northern portion of the lake was

7 actually listed on the National Register of

8 Historical Places. I think 93 or estimated at

9 that time at that time 93 canoes and artifacts

10 had been identified, and the important note was

11 these canoes or in situ or basically in their

12 place of rest and undisturbed.

13 Also, carbon dating of those canoes

14 identified their ages to range from 500 to

15 5,000 years old.

16 It's also important to note that while

17 only a portion of the lake was identified on

18 the list of Register of Historical Places,

19 other canoes had been found throughout the

20 lake, and that includes on the southwest, east

21 and northwest portions of the lake.

22 Mr. Pinson, the Department and the

23 Department of State worked on a modified

24 application to allow Mr. Pinson to continue his

25 recovery efforts. But the concerns of these

41
1 resources definitely established a significant

2 amount of correspondence. And, in fact, the

3 Department received several written objections

4 to the modified proposal.

5 These objections were received from

6 Dr. Patricia Whitman, director of Anthropology

7 and Genealogy, Assembled Tribe of Florida,

8 Chair Billy Cypress, Miccosukee Tribe of

9 Indians of Florida, the Sierra Club and

10 Chairman Robert Hutchinson, Alachua County

11 Board of County Commissioners.

12 Recently, based upon the significance of

13 the culture resources identified and the

14 concerns and objections raised, the Department

15 of State also submitted correspondence to the

16 Department recommending that this issue be

17 brought before the Board of Trustees and

18 similarly recommending in support of Chairman

19 Billy Cypress that Newnan's Lake be added to

20 the list of prohibited water bodies.

21 It's based upon this information that the

22 Department is recommending that we add Newnan's

23 Lake to the list of prohibited water bodies for

24 the removal of precut timbers, and we also need

25 to clarify that this list may include added

42
1 water bodies that sustain or have significant

2 cultural resources.

3 As one final additional note, the

4 Department does acknowledge the discovery of

5 the significant cultural resources has limited

6 Mr. Pinson's recovery efforts. And we have

7 talked with Mr. Pinson and agreed to expedite

8 two permits that are in house that he has for

9 two other water bodies, and I understand a

10 third water body that he is pursuing.

11 Finally, it's also important to note that

12 Mr. Pinson was only allowed to exercise about

13 one month out of the 12-month use agreement and

14 the $5,500 that he paid for that, and we will

15 be able to honor the remaining 11 months of

16 that use agreement for any future activities

17 that he plans to actually recover.

18 At this time, I have a long list of

19 speakers I would like to introduce.

20 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I need to find out,

21 before we get to the other speakers, on some

22 information you gave us.

23 Number 1, did I just hear you say that you

24 have added any other water body that may have

25 significant historical value?

43
1 How did you phrase that? Because any

2 other water body since native Americans have

3 lived over this state for thousands of years,

4 every water body is potential to have some

5 significant -- I need to clarify what you just

6 told us.

7 MR. SOLE: I understand the question,

8 Commissioner.

9 What we would like to add to the list is

10 text that would authorize the Department,

11 acting on behalf of the Board of Trustees, to

12 add water bodies that have identified

13 significant cultural resources.

14 Right now the list only allows for us to

15 add water bodies based upon their environmental

16 pristine nature and does not allow us to

17 actually add water bodies based upon identified

18 cultural resources that need to be protected.

19 So what we would like to do is modify it

20 so that when we do identify cultural resources,

21 that we can keep harvesting activities to

22 protect them.

23 SECRETARY HARRIS: These are significant

24 cultural activities. This lake in particular is

25 the largest collection of prehistoric canoes

44
1 3,000, 5,000 years old, discovered in all of North

2 America; so this is extremely significant.

3 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Certainly history is

4 one of the things I that enjoy doing, and I am a

5 Florida historian to some degree here. But to

6 give a broad approach to this without coming back

7 to the Board to give indications that there are

8 some factors that --

9 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's what they are saying.

10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Well, no, I think what

11 he just said, unless I am misunderstood it, was

12 that on their own initiative, if they determine

13 they have those issues in that lake, they can set

14 that lake aside without coming back to us. That's

15 the way I heard it.

16 MR. SOLE: And that's the way I said it,

17 Commissioner.

18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Also the same process existed

19 if it's environmentally pristine. So I mean, we

20 have delegated that authority to the Department.

21 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: I think, Governor, I

22 don't want to drag this thing out, but I have some

23 other concerns here, too, and that is it's fine to

24 come out and say we have all these historical

25 artifacts here, and I think it's wonderful that

45
1 they have been able to find this many canoes in

2 one lake, and so forth.

3 But if they are going to sit there in the

4 air and oxidation and destroy themselves

5 without being preserved, what have we

6 preserved?

7 I haven't heard what we are doing to

8 recover all of these --

9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, in some cases,

10 whenever there is water, because of technology,

11 archaeologically they have said the best thing to

12 do is to leave it exactly where it is until we

13 have that kind of technology to go in and preserve

14 where it is. And that's what they have in this

15 lake.

16 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Let me tell you, I

17 know a little more about this than you may think.

18 And that is, if this lake keeps drying up, there

19 is not going to be any preserving because as that

20 mud dries out or that oxidation hits that wood,

21 it's going to deteriorate at such a rate that by

22 the time you decide to do something with it, there

23 won't be anything there to do anything with.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can someone describe exactly

25 when we are doing with the situation?

46
1 MR. SOLE: Yes, sir. Right now I think our

2 efforts have been predominantly to protect the

3 area. The park patrol has increased surveillance

4 of the area to ensure that activities are

5 conducted on the lake that do not harm the

6 resources.

7 Again, I think Secretary Harris pointed

8 out sometimes it is best to leave them in place

9 and actually keep them in situ as they are. In

10 fact, only a portion of the canoes have been

11 excavated and uncovered and a significant

12 portion I think remain in situ and cover which

13 would be in a more protected state.

14 It's difficult to assert exactly what

15 needs to be done at this stage. I know there

16 are people that are here to speak on this issue

17 and would probably be better qualified to

18 answer that.

19 GOVERNOR BUSH: First of all, I want to

20 just -- we came here with anticipation of having a

21 disagreement. The applicant has withdrawn the

22 application, and the Department is hopefully going

23 to accommodate his interests, given the fact that

24 he did have a lease in other places that would be

25 equally as good.

47
1 So I doubt there is much concern about

2 this aspect of it, and kuto's to the department

3 and kuto's to the applicant for doing that.

4 I know we have a lot of people coming to

5 express support and we probably ought to hear

6 from them, if they could be brief since my

7 guess is there is a consensus that -- this

8 maybe not -- but I don't think there is a

9 problem. I think we probably have a pretty

10 unanimous vote here to accept the Department's

11 recommendation.

12 So based on that, using the old real

13 estate credo that "if you made the sale, don't

14 keep talking;" if you all could be brief so we

15 can -- you have come far and wide to express

16 your support for this. We are happy you are

17 here.

18 We'll proceed with that, and then we'll

19 get back to Commissioner Bronson's questions

20 about the larger questions, the policy

21 question. How about that?

22 MR. SOLE: I would like to recognize Sam

23 Arden to speak on this item.

24 MR. ARDEN: Good morning, Governor and

25 Members of the Cabinet, my name is Sam Arden. I

48
1 am representing Mr. L.C. Pinson.

2 Mr. Sole adequately went over the

3 agreement that's been reached between

4 Mr. Pinson and the Department and that we

5 accept that. We endorse the taking of the lake

6 off the list and look forward to working with

7 the Department.

8 It was done as a sign of good faith from

9 them to us, and us to them, and we appreciate

10 it.

11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Sam.

12 MR. HUTCHINSON: Good morning, thank you very

13 much, I am Robert Hutchinson, Chair of the Alachua

14 County Commission, and I learned most of my life's

15 lessons on Lake Pithlachocco, which is also

16 Newnan's Lake. I've got some pretty souvenir

17 pictures with a map on the back for you all to

18 look at some canoes; it is an archeological find

19 of world significance.

20 I wanted just to express my appreciation

21 to the Miccosukee and Seminole tribes for the

22 leadership they have shown, for the Florida

23 Department of Environmental Protection, the

24 Department of State, Secretary Harris spent a

25 day out here on the site helping us dig up some

49
1 canoes, and for her office's willingness to

2 expedite the National Register of the canoe

3 site, and for the Department of Historical

4 Resources and all they have done.

5 Steve Everett and Steve Reside did a great

6 job, they are world class archaeologists now.

7 And I want to thank Mr. Pinson for his

8 willingness to withdraw his application.

9 Alachua County agrees with the proposed

10 settlement, and we will promptly refund

11 Mr. Pinson's application fees to us for the

12 development approval for the site.

13 We also agree with the other staff

14 recommendations with putting Newnan's Lake on

15 this list and protection of other cultural

16 resources.

17 I think it's important to note that

18 sometimes it's easier for a bureaucracy to

19 defend an initial decision that may not have

20 been the right one, and I think it took a lot

21 of courage on the part of people within state

22 government and other agencies to recognize that

23 there is a need for a change of position here,

24 and the compromise we have today is the right

25 way to go.

50
1 The maps that you have got on the back of

2 those diagrams show the incredible partnership

3 that's going on between the State of Florida,

4 the Water Management District and the city and

5 the county in terms of land acquisition. And

6 what you will notice is that a large portion of

7 the Newnan's Lake area is either protected now

8 or slated for protection.

9 I was in Washington last week for three

10 days talking to the National Park Service and

11 the National Endowment for the Humanities, both

12 of which have exceptional interest in providing

13 funding to protect these resources.

14 With that, I will conclude my comments and

15 just let you know that county staff and myself

16 are available to answer any questions.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Out of curiosity, on this

18 map, it says State HRS?

19 MR. HUTCHINSON: The State HRS, actually part

20 of the Cocklacholee site for the developmentally

21 disabled owns a big chunk of land out there, that

22 they used forestry proceeds to help fund health

23 care, basically.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Really? We changed the name

25 a while back though.

51
1 MR. HUTCHINSON: That's probably how it still

2 shows up in our deed.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We may change it back now

4 though. Thank you for being here.

5 MR. HUTCHINSON: Thank you.

6 MR. SOLE: Sir, I would like to clarify

7 something. Commissioner Bronson brought up a

8 point and I might not have pegged it as well as I

9 should have.

10 The second item that we are recommending

11 on this is just to add cultural resources to

12 the issues that can be reviewed in determining

13 whether a lake or a water body should be added

14 to a prohibited water body list.

15 We are not amending or changing an

16 existing delegation in any way. We are just

17 adding, instead of just environmental issues,

18 that it could also be cultural resources or

19 significant cultural resources that are

20 identified.

21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I tell you, but I think

22 that does change the delegation in a big way. I

23 am not against it, but I think you need to say

24 this does change the delegation; it adds a

25 delegation to you. Right?

52
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: The question is do you have

2 to come back?

3 MR. SOLE: Right. The easy answer, if there

4 is an issue of significant cultural resources, we

5 readily would bring it back before the Board of

6 Trustees before we added a water body.

7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. Then I will make

8 a motion to add Newnan's Lake to include water

9 bodies with cultural resources as a criteria for

10 the list and have them brought back to us for

11 approval. That's my motion.

12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?

13 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Second.

14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Further discussion? I know

15 we have people coming.

16 MR. SOLE: Dr. Jana Mathews.

17 DR. MATTHEWS: Good morning, Governor,

18 Cabinet Members. As Governor Bush, the state

19 historic preservation officer, I just wanted to

20 observe very quickly this morning that Newnan's

21 Lake Pithlachocco as defined by the National

22 Historic Preservation Act of 1966 is on the list

23 as Category D.

24 Category D is a category that indicates

25 that this significant property will yield

53
1 information in the future. Like an Indian

2 mitten, it is that future information that

3 becomes significant.

4 I would like to point out a couple other

5 things; that over this period of time, in

6 federal law and state statute, we have gone

7 from micrographic history, George Washington's

8 House, to the history of everyday man, all of

9 us.

10 This lake is a perfect example of future

11 information that may be available about how

12 everyday man operated from 5,000 years ago to

13 500 years.

14 Barbara Purdy, who would have been here

15 this morning, has spent 40 years studying water

16 bodies like that lake, lives near Gainesville,

17 has been very involved and did offer a written

18 comment on the significance of the lake and how

19 it fits in context with wetlands of the State

20 of Florida.

21 You have a lot of good speakers who can

22 speak very eloquently about the significance of

23 the lake. I only add one thing, that is a

24 recent event; is that I have had the honor of

25 being appointed by Secretary of Interior Gail

54
1 Norton to the National Park System Advisory

2 Board, Director Fran Mainella, said I could

3 mention to you that I am going to chair the

4 subcommittee on National Historic Landmarks.

5 And I want you to know that I am sure that with

6 Director Mainella's help, we can work very hard

7 to get more national historic landmarks in

8 Florida listed than we currently have, 35, and

9 that this should be an among our top

10 contenders.

11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good. Congratulations.

12 MR. DAYHOFF: Good morning, Governor and

13 Cabinet, and we want to thank you all for letting

14 us have a moment to speak here. I am the cultural

15 representative for the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians

16 of Florida.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you state your name,

18 please.

19 MR. DAYHOFF: Fred Dayhoff. And the Chairman

20 extends his regrets that he couldn't attend, but

21 he had some conflicting schedule.

22 We, getting to the point -- and I saw you

23 looking at your watch several times, so I know

24 you are ready to go somewhere.

25 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. I've got nothing going

55
1 on.

2 MR. DAYHOFF: We agreed basically with this;

3 that the resources in Newnan's Lake are too

4 valuable to risk.

5 The value of one canoe cannot be replaced

6 by a hundred logs if you were to were to remove

7 them. And there is no value to the county

8 Alachua County or to the state or anyone else

9 except to the logger taking these logs out.

10 This is a very significant cultural site

11 to the native American people. And it may have

12 more significance than just a place where old

13 boats are. It could mean much more. Study may

14 prove that later.

15 We agree with this, and the thing we are

16 particularly pleased with is mentioning the

17 other bodies of water because we, through our

18 oral history, already know that Orange Lake and

19 Lochloosa also contain old canoes; and not just

20 through the oral history of the Miccosukee

21 people, but my people lived in Cross Creek in

22 1880, and they used to use the old canoes that

23 they would find, they would latch them together

24 like Catamarans and mount punt guns on them

25 like big cannons to shoot ducks on those lakes

56
1 to sell to the railroad when the railroad came

2 through. So those canoes were found both in

3 Orange Lake and Lochloosa.

4 And that will be our other fear, is that

5 we save Newnan's, but this moves on to another

6 lake, and we hope you look at that very

7 closely.

8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.

9 MR. DAYHOFF: And my colleague, F.K. Jones

10 and Steve Terry, may want to say a brief word

11 here.

12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thanks for coming.

13 MR. TERRY: Governor Bush and Fellow Cabinet

14 Members, I am Steve Terry. I act as a travel

15 historic preservations officer for the Miccosukee

16 Tribe.

17 We are glad to see that the Department of

18 State has decided to come out and support

19 Newnan's Lake to be added to the list of state

20 water bodies for which this type of logging is

21 prohibited, and also support their position to

22 add significant cultural resources as a concern

23 to decide whether to list a water body on this

24 list or not.

25 We are pleased to see this. We thank you

57
1 for your support and hope that you come through

2 with this and do the right thing.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.

4 MR. JONES: Good morning, Governor and

5 Cabinet Members. I am F.K. Jones, I am the

6 wildlife director for the Miccosukee Tribe and

7 have been for the last 10 years.

8 Ladies and gentlemen, I am here to speak

9 for the animals. When Indian tribes get

10 together and there is something to be drawed up

11 to the Council that will affect the animals,

12 someone has to be appointed to speak for the

13 animals because they cannot speak for

14 themselves.

15 The logs below the waterline in all times

16 are used for hiding places for young fish.

17 Probably some of the trophy bass caught in

18 Newnan's Lake have used these very logs to hide

19 from their predators; and the algae growth on

20 the log is also at the bottom of the food chain

21 and results in a lot of things being fed.

22 At certain times of the normal years, they

23 are exposed to the surface, and they are used

24 by turtles and alligators to sun themselves.

25 In cool weather -- of course we are in Florida,

58
1 we don't have cold weather, it's only cool --

2 they warm up. Egrets and herons also perch on

3 these logs, that way they can see their prey

4 swimming by.

5 And eagles perch there to spread their

6 wings so they can dry. The playful otters will

7 frolic there at night on these very same logs.

8 The animals think it would be better to

9 leave the logs where they are resting for so

10 many years, rather than pull them up and drag

11 them out in a way that would not only deprive

12 the animals of the logs, but the destruction of

13 surrounding habitat and prehistoric dugout

14 canoes.

15 Thank you very much. And in closing, I

16 would like to quote Chief Seattle who says:

17 Whatever happens to the animals also happens to

18 man. For without the animals, man would die

19 from great loneliness of spirit. All things

20 are connected.

21 Thank you very much.

22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much for being

23 here.

24 MR. BILLY: Good morning, Governor and

25 Members, I am not a Seminole tribe, I am not a

59
1 Miccosukee tribe; I am an independent,

2 traditional, Seminole nation of Florida.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you state your name for

4 the record.

5 MR. BILLY: Bobby C. Billy, they call me.

6 And I like to tell you about the history of our

7 people.

8 Actually we live in this land over

9 6 million years for generation to generation at

10 this time. What I saw earlier, your TV at the

11 beginning of the meeting, something happened,

12 maybe September 11. You have a history, you

13 preserved that. I see all of you crying. You

14 feel sad, and you preserve that.

15 That's one of our history. We want to

16 preserve that, because what happened that day,

17 it wasn't any good, as you feel happened to you

18 people. And you need to respect that.

19 Because early we make agreement, we need

20 to respect each other as to people when you

21 come into our land.

22 So we haven't had that respect. We

23 haven't had that freedom. We haven't had that

24 agreement we have made.

25 A lot of our history has been destroyed at

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1 this time. Acknowledge them. We gave you a

2 home. We give you the food. We give you what

3 you are today.

4 We you need to respect us, as the people,

5 as you are.

6 Also, you need to respect the natural

7 things, what the Creator have gave us, which is

8 water, and air, trees and animals, plants,

9 vegetables, give us nourishment. That's what

10 we live on. We need to acknowledge them.

11 Without that, we cannot live continuously.

12 And that's what all the wetlands does.

13 With that, I would like to support to save

14 out there. I went there five years ago. They

15 acknowledged the lake before everybody

16 disturbed it. And I went there a month ago

17 after the people disturbed that. The lake's

18 air dry, but it happens like that over the

19 years.

20 You are right, it continues drying. But

21 it will come back a couple years. It happens

22 like that certain times of the year, or certain

23 times it used to happen. It's a natural

24 creation. You can't control that.

25 So well water will come back. So don't

61
1 build houses down the wetlands, it will be

2 flooded.

3 So that's how I feel, because you are not

4 only cultures have the history. You are not

5 only cultures living on this earth that God

6 gave us. So you need to respect all cultures;

7 their way of life, their history of life. And

8 that's what God give us, rights to live and

9 survive of this land that God gave us.

10 So that's why I would like to say this to

11 you at this time. But right there, it end.

12 But I would like to give you something, what we

13 doing between us, whoever give them the

14 numbers.

15 With that, I thank you. I hope you

16 preserve that site. And thank you.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for being here.

18 Good morning.

19 MS. DEMING: Good morning, Governor Bush,

20 Members of the Cabinet. My name is Joan Deming. I

21 represent the Florida Archaeological Council. We

22 are a statewide nonprofit organization of

23 professional archaeologists practicing in Florida.

24 And the council advocates the conservation

25 of archaeological resources. And we discourage

62
1 the destruction of archaeological sites both on

2 land and under water.

3 In brief, for the Governor's benefit, we

4 came to support the protection of native

5 American canoes in Newnan's Lake which is

6 listed in the national Register of Historic

7 Places. And we are very pleased that the

8 permit issue has been resolved.

9 We join the Miccosukee and Seminole Tribes

10 in supporting the protection of significant

11 native American sites. And we also advocate

12 the future recovery of deadhead logs from

13 Florida's waters be accompanied by professional

14 archaeological involvement. We thank you.

15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for being here.

16 MS. GENGENBACH: Good morning Governor,

17 Members, I am Marianne Gigenbach and this morning

18 I speak for the Nature Conservancy, Audubon of

19 Florida, and Florida Wildlife Federation.

20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Wow. How did you get that

21 duty?

22 MS. GENGENBACH: I am not sure how I did that

23 but we are speaking, of course, in support of this

24 item. We commend the Department on all the hard

25 work they have done. You have a wonderful

63
1 opportunity this morning, as is your unique

2 purview, to preserve a very significant natural

3 and cultural resource for all the citizens of

4 Florida for all time. And we hope you do. Thank

5 you.

6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much. Any

7 other speakers?

8 There is a motion and a second. Any other

9 discussion?

10 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just want to say there

11 was an excellent editorial in the Gainesville Sun

12 over the weekend in support of this, and I just

13 wanted to thank the Department. We always tried

14 to focused on what's best for the State of Florida

15 and natural resources, and I think this will go a

16 long way to preserve that.

17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are there any objections to

18 the motion?

19 Without objection, it passes. Thank you

20 very much. Thank you all for coming.

64
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of

2 Administration.

3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes.

4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.

5 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a

6 second. Without objection, it's approved.

7 MR. HERNDON: Item 2 is approval of Treasurer

8 Gallagher's reappointment of Mr. Don Burton to the

9 Investment Advisory Council.

10 COMMISSIONER BRONSON: Moved.

11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.

12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

13 objection, it's approved.

14 We may want to pause here for a little

15 bit. By the way, Cabinet Members, you might be

16 interested to know that I commented on the art

17 work on the walls, how beautiful it looked, and

18 General Butterworth told me he thought it

19 looked kind of like the House and Senate

20 redistricting lines.

21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: The lines the Supreme

22 Court approved?

23 GOVERNOR BUSH: The lines the Supreme Court

24 approved.

25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Over his objection.

65
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just a light-hearted note.

2 Item 3.

3 MR. HERNDON: Item 3 is a statistical report

4 on where we are with respect to PEORP and the

5 implementation of the defined contribution plan.

6 I quickly call your attention a couple of

7 items. We have mailed out virtually all of the

8 employee kits to group one; that's the state

9 employees.

10 We have now have mailed out 233,000 kits

11 to a second group, which is the school board

12 employees. About 80 percent of the total

13 population of that group have now received

14 their kits.

15 And we are beginning to see a growing

16 increase as you would expect as volumes pick up

17 in enrollment, phone calls, decisions about to

18 go or to stay and the respective plans and

19 workshops schedules, and so forth. Again,

20 recognize that the enrollment does not

21 efficiently begin until June 1st.

22 So the 10,000 or so people who actually

23 made enrollment decisions out of this total of

24 about 445,000 that have received their kits are

25 doing it before the actual enrollment window

66
1 opens on June 1st and runs for three months for

2 state employees and then school board employees

3 come after that.

4 So by in large, we are pleased with what's

5 gone on. We are expecting, and let me just say

6 two comments with respect to PEORP; that

7 because of the nature of the way school

8 employees are funded -- some on nine-month

9 contracts, some on 10, some on 12-month

10 contracts, we are anticipating some disconnect

11 from time to time on some of the employee

12 benefit calculations, because we have not been

13 able to capture that information as clearly as

14 we might like. So we are going to get some

15 requests for duplicate kits to correct salary

16 calculations.

17 And we have known that going in;

18 unfortunately there is just nothing really we

19 can do about it.

20 Secondly, we did budget in the program

21 money for some advertising and public

22 information outreach initiatives as we started

23 to get closer and closer to the enrollment

24 period. And we are going to go ahead and start

25 working with Ketchum, our public information

67
1 media firm, to start bringing those to media as

2 we get a little bit closer. So we'll start

3 activating that in hopes that we can see some

4 increases in enrollment and workshop, sign up

5 and those kinds of things.

6 But by in large, the program is going

7 along smoothly and we haven't really run into

8 any significant problems as far as we know.

9 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.

10 MR. HERNDON: Item number 4 is also a status

11 report on the bundled providers and where we are

12 with respect to the contracts.

13 As you will recall, at the last meeting we

14 briefly highlighted some of the issues

15 associated with the bundled providers and the

16 stable value funds.

17 We have had continuing discussion with the

18 bundled providers who are offering stable value

19 funds. In the case of three of those bundled

20 providers, we believe we reached an agreement

21 in specific terms with them regarding the way

22 their stable value funds will operate inside

23 the program and have forwarded contracts to

24 them that include the stable value fund.

25 In the case of one provider, we were not

68
1 able to reach an accord when we mailed out the

2 contracts. We have since had an exchange of

3 correspondence with ourselves and that bundled

4 provider; and it does appear as if that

5 agreement is much, much closer to being

6 resolved and reached. And we have got a

7 conference call scheduled for Friday. We hope

8 to be able to nail down all the specifics then.

9 So we should be in fairly good shape with

10 respect to the operation of those four stable

11 value funds.

12 The only other item of consequence there

13 as it relates to the bundled provider contracts

14 is that ING Aetna small cap value product.

15 We are working with ING Aetna. They did

16 propose four substitutions. We are looking at

17 one that is a good product. Unfortunately we

18 have a little bit of a disagreement on the fees

19 that they want to charge for that product; so

20 we are negotiating with them, and hope to bring

21 back to you a report recommending substitution

22 of that product if we can get the fee structure

23 in line with the rest of the products that are

24 being offered.

25 So I think we are in fairly good shape

69
1 with respect to the bundled providers.

2 We still have other items to negotiate

3 with them. But once we clear this hurdle, it

4 will be a major, major hurdle. And it's

5 unfortunate it's taken as long as it has, but

6 contracts are difficult and complicated and a

7 lot at stake. So we have tried to work very

8 methodically through these issues.

9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Quick question,

10 Governor.

11 You talk about restructuring the bundled

12 and nonbundled into a single offering on the

13 money market and stable value products. How

14 would that work?

15 MR. HERNDON: What we were hoping might be

16 attractive to all of the vendors was essentially

17 the collapsing of their underlying products into a

18 single product; and different providers would take

19 different elements of the stable value product,

20 all of which then combined gave you a whole stable

21 value product.

22 It doesn't appear that there is really

23 much interest in doing that. We thought that

24 might be a reasonable way to strike a balance.

25 We really are not getting many takers on that

70
1 proposal.

2 And in lieu of that, the firms have said

3 they would rather have their own. And if we

4 can overcome some of the concerns you all have

5 expressed, Commissioner Gallagher, on some of

6 the liquidity restrictions, and so forth, then

7 we think we are home free.

8 By in large, those have been resolved. We

9 have got a couple equity/loss issues we are

10 still trying to work through, but we think we

11 are getting much closer.

12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?

13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move.

14 MR. HERNDON: It's just for your information.

15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I am sorry.

16 MR. HERNDON: The next item is to request

17 your authorization to go ahead and provide to all

18 of the clients of the State Board a two month

19 payment holiday. It's approximately $3.8 million.

20 We have operated on a 1.75 basis point fee for

21 some years. And depending on volumes and fees,

22 and so forth, that occasionally produces a little

23 bit more money in our Administrator Trust Fund

24 than we shoot for, which is a one-year operating

25 level. And that's the case in this instance and

71
1 we can provide all our clients with this

2 $3.8 million rebate if that's agreeable to you.

3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.

4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded. Without

6 objection, it's approved.

7 MR. HERNDON: Item number 6, pursuant to your

8 direction at the last meeting, where we discussed

9 the potential litigation against Alliance Capital,

10 there have been a number of activities that have

11 occurred since that time.

12 The lawyers for the State Board, Messers

13 Grady and Burns, have corresponded at length

14 with counsel for Alliance Capital.

15 There have also been a number of

16 conference calls that took place as recently as

17 last night at 5:30 and I had the opportunity to

18 meet with the CEO for Alliance Capital in New

19 York last week.

20 The sum and substance of all that -- and

21 counsel is here and happy to comment if you

22 would like -- but the sum and substance of all

23 that is Alliance Capital has shown no interest

24 in a settlement and shown no interest in

25 providing us with any information consistent

72
1 with the request that we had made going back

2 almost six months now.

3 As a consequence, my recommendation to you

4 is simply that we move forward and file the

5 complaint and initiate the litigation. I don't

6 see the value of waiting any longer. Alliance

7 has suggested we wait until after all the

8 litigation in Texas is completed.

9 I don't know that I will live that long,

10 and I would like to see this process started

11 and finished, if at all possible. .

12 So that's the sum of our recommendations.

13 We'll be happy to -- as I said, counsel is

14 here; they can give you further insight into

15 some of the discussions, and so forth, if you

16 would like.

17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I have been able to

18 talk to Tom and see some of the things that have

19 occurred. And while I would hope that these folks

20 would come to the table, doesn't look like they

21 are willing to come to the table. So I think we

22 ought to move on it with it and authorize --

23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: He took that as a motion.

25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes, that was a

73
1 motion.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.

3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and second,

4 emphatically endorsed by all three of us, I think.

5 We have been very patient. We allowed the

6 Attorney General's process to work out so as

7 not to conflict that.

8 We have given Alliance a chance to try to

9 reach settlement. Now it's time to sue.

10 There is a motion and a second. Without

11 objection, it's approved, if there is a need

12 for a motion.

13 MR. HERNDON: My expectation is that after a

14 little fine tuning, we'll probably be filing that

15 lawsuit late this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Great.

17 MR. HERNDON: Item number 7 is a report by

18 the executive director for the fund activity

19 analysis for the month of February 2002.

20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to accept.

21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second; not wild about

22 it but --

23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I move.

24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a

25 second to accept. And without objection, it's

74
1 approved.

2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I move to withdraw 8 at

3 this time.

4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.

5 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion to withdraw

6 and a second. Without objection, the motion is

7 withdrawn.

9 MR. HERNDON: Governor, as you know, there

10 apparently has been a whistle blower complaint

11 filed against the agency. I am not privy to the

12 details nor could I discuss them if I were.

13 But in light of that, it was our

14 recommendation that we postpone action on this

15 until the slate is clear and clean and you, as

16 Trustees, have full knowledge of events. And

17 so that's where we are.

18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think that's the right

19 approach. And since the whistle blower process is

20 confidential to protect the whistle blower, and we

21 need to be respectful of that process, deferring

22 this item is appropriate.

23 But I will tell you what: My own personal

24 opinion is Tom and Coleman, both of you have

25 done an outstanding job and are worthy of our

75
1 support. And you have mine.

2 Thank you all very much.

3 (The proceedings concluded at 11:18 a.m.)

76
1

2 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

6 STATE OF FLORIDA )

7 COUNTY OF LEON )

9 I, SANDRA L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR, certify that I

10 was authorized to and did stenographically report the

11 proceedings herein, and that the transcript is a true

12 and complete record of my stenographic notes.

13 I further certify that I am not a relative,

14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,

15 nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties'

16 attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I

17 financially interested in the action.

18 WITNESS my hand and official seal this 15th

19 day of May, 2002.

22 ______________________________

23 SANDRA L. NARGIZ, RMR, CRR
100 SALEM COURT
24 TALLAHASSEE, FL 32301
850-878-2221
25