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T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
VOLUME I
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
March 13, 2001, commencing at approximately 9:17 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
TERRY L. RHODES
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer
CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education
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March 13, 2001
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 6
3 Approved 6
4 Approved 7
5 Approved 8
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Deferred 9
2 Denied 109
Substitute 3 Withdrawn 110
4 Deferred 110
5 Approved 110
6 Approved 110
7 Approved 112
8 Approved 115
Second
Substitute 9 Presentation 116
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 190
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March 13, 2001
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 10:00 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Education.
4 MR. PIERSON: Good morning.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
6 MR. PIERSON: Item 1 is minutes of the
7 meeting held on January 23rd, 2001.
8 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
10 COMMISSIONER CRIST: -- could I interrupt?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
12 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I forgot to notice
13 some people that are very important to your
14 mentoring initiative who are here with us
15 today.
16 (Discussion off the record.)
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion on the
18 minutes?
19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Yes.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Moved.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is delegation of
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March 13, 2001
1 authority by the State Board of Education to
2 the Agency Clerk, Department of Education.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion?
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: One of you want to move the
6 thing, and then the other --
7 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH:
9 (Indicating.)
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
11 Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved
13 (Discussion off the record.)
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 3.
15 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is adoption of a
16 resolution authorizing the competitive sale of
17 not exceeding fourteen million five hundred and
18 eighty thousand dollars, full faith and credit,
19 State Board of Education Capital Outlay Bonds.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Little out of sinc.
21 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, approved.
25 What is that noise back there?
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1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: What is there, a radio
2 in here?
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You can't hear anything?
4 Am I just --
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: No, I hear it.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- hallucinating or
7 something?
8 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I hear it, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's gone now.
10 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think it's
11 yours.
12 MEMBER OF THE MEDIA: No, it isn't.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You up too
14 late?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, I didn't get --
16 I'm sorry. It was a little distracting.
17 Item 4.
18 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is repeal of several
19 State University rules.
20 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is a revision of
25 Rule 6C-6.0105, Student Conduct and Discipline,
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1 State University System.
2 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER RHODES: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 Thank you.
7 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
8 concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
2 Mr. Secretary?
3 MR. STRUHS: Yes. Good morning.
4 We're asking to defer Item Number 1, sir.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion to
6 defer.
7 COMMISSIONER RHODES: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer.
9 Is there a second?
10 COMMISSIONER RHODES: Yes, sir.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, the
12 motion is deferred.
13 MR. STRUHS: Item 2 is the issue of
14 Brickell Key Marina/Swire Properties, an item
15 that has been deferred a number of times.
16 We are today bringing that forward to your
17 consideration, and recommending a denial. As
18 you are well aware, the Biscayne Bay Aquifer
19 Preserve is a -- is a unique statutory
20 structure that sets a very high bar for these
21 kinds of projects.
22 We do have a number of individuals though
23 who are here speaking in support of the
24 project, and I'd like to invite them, at their
25 request, to speak to you, including
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1 Mr. Jack Peeples, Mayor Carrollo,
2 Attorney Frank Matthews, Sergeant Serig, and
3 Paul Larsen.
4 If you could all come forward, please.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning. Welcome.
6 Jack, you going to start us off?
7 MR. PEEPLES: Yes, sir.
8 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Oh, that's a map.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Careful.
10 COMMISSIONER CRIST: It's going to hit --
11 hit the roof.
12 MR. PEEPLES: Can you see it all right? Is
13 it --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I can see it. It's pretty
15 big.
16 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I can't see it,
17 Governor.
18 MR. PEEPLES: May it please the Governor,
19 and members of the Cabinet, my name is
20 Jack Peeples.
21 And I am counsel to Swire Properties, the
22 co-applicant with the City of Miami for a
23 marina park, along the lee shore of
24 Brickell Key, this area right here.
25 I'm going to attempt to conserve your time
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1 by having a series of very brief presentations
2 to deal with the issues that remain before you
3 today to be resolved.
4 I'm going to first make a very brief
5 overview of the orientation, remind you of the
6 physical setup in our city.
7 Then Mayor Carrollo is going to make a
8 presentation.
9 Following that will be Frank Matthews to
10 discuss the legal and regulatory issues
11 involved.
12 Then we have Sergeant Arthur Serig, the
13 Chief of the Miami Marine Patrol, who will
14 speak to you briefly; and then Paul Larsen, an
15 environmental engineer, will discuss some
16 details.
17 First I want to have all of you look for a
18 moment and see -- as I say, remind yourself of
19 the situation we have in our city.
20 In the first place, on the left side of
21 this aerial photograph, you'll see the main
22 north-south arterial roadway in our community.
23 This is the only limited access roadway east of
24 the extension of the Turnpike into Palmetto.
25 It is our primary road for access north and
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1 south.
2 You will notice a very -- major
3 intersection there, which intercepts the
4 traffic and takes it to Watson Island and to
5 the beach, and also receives traffic coming
6 from the airport into I-95.
7 It continues on down, and this, of course,
8 is the most essential intersection we have in
9 our city. This is the intersection which
10 brings all the traffic into our city.
11 Unfortunately, when the traffic comes into
12 this point, it arrives at the major problem we
13 have had in our community, and the Mayor's
14 effort to revitalize it, and that is the total
15 lack of any utilization of the core of our
16 city.
17 There are 10 acres here that have remained
18 undeveloped for the last 30 years, principally
19 because of some private litigation not germane
20 to your issue. And, of course, there's a
21 vastly undeveloped -- or improperly developed
22 resource here, and the -- and the Dupont Plaza
23 Hotel.
24 So when someone comes and enters our city,
25 they -- they -- that's what they enter to.
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1 And you're going to hear from the Mayor,
2 the plans that he has for energizing this
3 area -- infrastructure area, and getting our
4 city revitalization plan moving.
5 Now, from here, I -- I need to get you to
6 get some point of reference. This is
7 Brickell Key. The perimeter of this key is
8 almost exactly 1 mile. So to give you some
9 point of reference, this shoreline would go on
10 here -- from here to there. This shoreline
11 would go from here to the north end of the
12 Bicentennial Park.
13 So now you have some frame of reference on
14 this -- on this map.
15 Now, moving north from here, I need to
16 identify these, because the -- the -- the
17 representations that the Mayor's going to make
18 to you require you to focus for a moment on the
19 setup that we have in our city now.
20 If you go all the way to that point, you
21 will find the area that we normally think of as
22 the northern bookend of our downtown. It is
23 the site of our soon to be constructed
24 performing arts complex.
25 Of course, that's the Omni area there, and
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1 people in that area would quarrel with me that
2 that's -- they should also be included. But
3 essentially this is the -- the northern
4 boundary of our downtown.
5 This is Bicentennial Park, this is the
6 American Airlines Arena, this is the
7 Miami Marina, this is Bayside, this is the
8 Bayfront Park, and this is the Intercontinental
9 Hotel.
10 And, of course, we're now back down to
11 our -- basically our problem area, which is the
12 core of our city, which is totally undeveloped,
13 and lacks any infrastructure.
14 Now, when you cross the river, the first
15 thing you'd notice -- and the Secretary of
16 State would be upset, I'm sure, if I didn't
17 mention this as the most significant asset we
18 have south of the river -- and that is the --
19 the park which she recently came down and
20 dedicated for us. That's our Circle Park.
21 As you cross -- as you cross this --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Has the County -- how are
23 we doing on the fund raising for that?
24 Miami Circle.
25 MR. PEEPLES: I'm -- I'm really not
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1 familiar with that.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
3 MR. PEEPLES: I'm -- I'm surprised I
4 haven't been asked to -- to assist in it.
5 But at any rate, when you -- when you --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well --
7 MR. PEEPLES: -- when you --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- we're
9 asking now, sir.
10 MR. PEEPLES: Okay.
11 When you cross the river, we have three
12 bridges crossing the river here. We also have,
13 as all of you know, I think, our people mover
14 moves around, has -- circles here, and also
15 continues all the way down now into the
16 Brickell area to service this area also from
17 the people mover.
18 The Metro Mover, it also crosses the river
19 here, and brings the people from the south --
20 have the ability to come directly into the
21 downtown station and connect up to the
22 people mover.
23 So we have in our community essentially
24 almost a -- a seamless -- a seamless situation
25 here on the river in terms of the
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1 interrelationship in our city.
2 And as you cross the river and come to the
3 south, after the park, you will recall that
4 this is the --
5 (Treasurer Gallagher exited the room.)
6 MR. PEEPLES: -- area that General Milligan
7 has been so -- so helpful in -- in assisting us
8 into turning it into the -- emerging as the --
9 as the number one international financial
10 center in the world, and certainly now clearly
11 the financial capital of the Americas.
12 Also here we have an emerging, very
13 interesting project called Brickell Village.
14 It has been -- being developed under the
15 leadership of me began Megan Kelly of
16 Swire Properties.
17 And it is our intention that this village
18 will function very much like Coconut Grove and
19 South Beach to create a downtown entertainment
20 area.
21 The end of the City, most of us would say,
22 in terms of downtown, is just about in this
23 area. And -- and so, therefore, this,
24 of course, as -- as I started off to say, is
25 absolutely dead center in our city.
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1 Now, if you take the two intersections
2 here, and the interstate, and you recognize how
3 they -- it flows -- the automobile traffic
4 flows, you will find that if you take those two
5 intersections, and this north-south artery, and
6 bring it over with respect to marine traffic,
7 we replicate right here exactly that situation.
8 All east-west boat traffic in our county
9 is -- is on the Miami River.
10 There is -- it's a huge port. As you know,
11 there are arguments about whether it's fifth or
12 seventh largest port. I don't know. It's a
13 very large port. It's very active.
14 On the initiatives of the Governor and
15 others of you on the Cabinet, we are very
16 hopeful that the -- the new initiative is going
17 to assist us in -- in -- in bringing this river
18 into the -- into the valuable resource that it
19 is for us.
20 But this river exits here, and then the
21 Intracoastal Waterway, which obviously begins
22 in Maine, and comes right on down here, and
23 comes at this point, and hugs the shore of this
24 island, and continues on down.
25 Therefore, this intersection for boats is
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1 exactly like this intersection for automobile
2 traffic.
3 Now, we have over 60,000 boats in our
4 county that the State has registered. And I'm
5 not absolutely sure, but I'm almost sure, that
6 if you stopped any segment of those
7 60,000 boaters out on the bay, where I am
8 almost all of the time, you will find -- and
9 ask 100 of them, I am certain that all 100 of
10 them in their boating activities will come past
11 that intersection.
12 Why? Because any boat coming from the
13 south, attempting to exit to the ocean, is
14 going to come up the Intracoastal Waterway.
15 Unfortunately, after it has been loaded
16 on -- it has been put in by a -- on a -- on a
17 boat ramp, and moved out across the flats here
18 to get here, it will come up to here -- to --
19 to exit to the ocean, or to go north for the
20 activities up there.
21 Any boat coming down from the south, there
22 is no other access north-south waterway until
23 you get to the ocean, which is an unprotected
24 ocean. As you all know there, there's no reef
25 or anything to give you any protection.
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1 So all of the boat traffic has to move
2 here.
3 So this is an intersection that would --
4 that would remind you of any great intersection
5 of any place in the world where almost all of
6 the traffic must come past that.
7 So -- so it is important to notice that any
8 vessel berthed here is already at the point
9 that almost all of those 60,000 vessels, when
10 they are launched, are eventually going to get
11 to that point, one way or the other: By going
12 north, by going up the river, by exiting the
13 river, or going out to sea.
14 Boats to the south may go out the -- the --
15 the Cape Florida Channel, they may go out
16 Still Still Channel (phonetic) -- it's not too
17 desirable in either instance -- or they may go
18 north and exit out through Bakers Hollow.
19 But essentially this is our intersection.
20 I want to reserve a moment to -- when we
21 close, to discuss one other issue with you.
22 But I want to move forward quickly now, and
23 ask you to -- to receive our Mayor, who is now
24 going to discuss -- discuss the public interest
25 aspect of this application.
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1 Mayor Carollo?
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Mayor.
3 MR. CAROLLO: Thank you, Governor.
4 Good morning, Governor, and members of the
5 Cabinet.
6 Let me begin by thanking you for the
7 opportunity to address you this morning.
8 I come today on behalf of the co-applicant
9 for the submerged lands lease, and I seek your
10 approval in this project on behalf of the City
11 of Miami.
12 The City and Swire Properties have forged a
13 private-public partnership in developing this
14 public project to implement critical public
15 improvements for the health and safety of our
16 citizens, and the resources of the Biscayne
17 Aquatic Preserve.
18 This marina will be the gateway to downtown
19 Miami. It will provide critical boating access
20 to a coastal community, desperate to utilize
21 its waterways.
22 The marina is the critical redevelopment
23 and revitalization component of our downtown
24 plan, and the expected economic benefits will
25 provide us critical resources, which, in turn,
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1 will help us to provide essential services.
2 The tax revenues already realized from
3 Brickell Key have allowed us to make essential
4 municipal purchases, such as badly needed
5 firefighting equipment.
6 For example, most importantly, this project
7 concentrates the marine law enforcement
8 resources at the mouth of the Miami River.
9 The dedication of six wet slips and the
10 establishment of a high visibility,
11 fully-manned police presence at this location
12 is a critical linchpin in crime prevention,
13 boating safety, and manatee protection in the
14 Miami River, and the entire Biscayne Bay.
15 The City supports the revisions which --
16 which have been discussed here today involving
17 the reduction in slips in the reduction in the
18 preempted areas requested.
19 And we believe this proposal responds to
20 all of the concerns which have been identified.
21 We are convinced that the revised proposal
22 greatly advances the public interest, the
23 public health, and the public safety.
24 Any questions which have arisen regarding
25 public necessity should be fully satisfied by
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1 the economic redevelopment, law enforcement,
2 and recreational benefits which are a direct
3 result of your approving this submerged land
4 lease application.
5 The City Commission is unified in its
6 support for this project. And the citizens of
7 Miami respectfully request your favorable
8 consideration to this application.
9 I will be happy to answer any questions
10 that you may have on any other aspects of this
11 proposal, now or at -- at another time.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
13 MR. CAROLLO: Thank you very much.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Maybe we should hear the
15 rest of the presentations, and -- and then
16 we'll have time for questions.
17 MR. CAROLLO: Thank you, Governor.
18 MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Governor, members
19 of the Cabinet. I'm Frank Matthews, with
20 Hopping, Green, Sams & Smith, here on behalf of
21 both the co-applicants, the City of Miami and
22 Swire Properties.
23 My job is to try to simplify the policy
24 issue, which we present here with this
25 application.
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1 Basically, I wouldn't approve it if I was
2 going by the agenda item before you. The
3 comments contained within the agenda item
4 indicate an absence of public necessity, that
5 the public project does not achieve the
6 benefits required under the aquatic preserve
7 standards.
8 I want to just recount as quickly as
9 possible that we do, in fact, meet all of the
10 environmental resource permitting criteria. I
11 don't think that's an issue with anyone.
12 We meet all of the Federal regulatory
13 criteria as expressed by the Fish and Wildlife
14 Service, the United States Corps of Engineers.
15 We also basically have been concluded as
16 having no adverse resource impacts in the
17 Biscayne Aquatic Preserve. There --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who --
19 MR. MATTHEWS: -- is no subaqueous
20 vegetation at this location, the depth of the
21 drafts available for the boats to be moored
22 here is absolutely exceptional. And there is
23 no question that there is no environmental
24 adversity created by the location.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Frank, just a second.
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1 Did -- is -- did you say that someone
2 validated that?
3 MR. MATTHEWS: Yes, sir.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who was that?
5 MR. MATTHEWS: It was the Fish and Wildlife
6 Service, the United States Fish and Wildlife
7 Service as --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: That there was no
9 environmental --
10 MR. MATTHEWS: That is correct.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
12 MR. MATTHEWS: And, in fact, the summary
13 that they've reached, Governor, is that
14 unbalanced, this project is a positive impact
15 on the manatee, which is obviously the
16 endangered species of their concern.
17 And they found that by what we're doing in
18 relocating the headquarters of the
19 Marine Patrol Unit, as Sergeant Serig will
20 speak to, we are providing the on-water
21 law enforcement that absolutely everyone agrees
22 is the response necessary for manatee
23 protection.
24 And, in fact, they have done a calculation
25 demonstrating 364 additional hours annually
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1 being brought to the waters of Biscayne Bay as
2 a result of this proposal.
3 So, in effect, we're sitting here today
4 wrestling with public necessity.
5 And I just want to lead you briefly through
6 the fact that the -- the hardship requirements
7 of the Biscayne Aquatic Preserve state that
8 inherently -- inherently, a public project,
9 which is being constructed with improvements to
10 achieve the public necessity by safety and
11 health advances for the public, accomplishes
12 satisfaction of those criteria.
13 And as -- as we've alluded to, and as the
14 Mayor has spoken to, the project provides
15 concentrated law enforcement for criminal
16 deterrence, boating safety, manatee protection.
17 We provide recreational amenity in a
18 three-and-a-half acre park. We also provide
19 economic revitalization, which will allow the
20 City to accomplish all of its economic
21 objectives in the downtown revitalization
22 effort.
23 What we've got then is, how much is too
24 much? How much can we introduce and meet that
25 public necessity test?
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1 We originally proposed 153 slips. The
2 proposal before you is 112 slips. Since the
3 Aides -- since the Aides meeting --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead.
5 MR. MATTHEWS: -- and I'll conclude as
6 rapidly just to describe the project before
7 you.
8 We have proposed a 70-slip marina, 48 slips
9 south of the brid-- 42 south of the bridge,
10 28 north of the bridge.
11 Under any scenario that anybody has
12 discussed with us, the -- Dade County Manatee
13 Protection Plan would permit eleven powerboat
14 slips, if this was a purely commercial marina.
15 If this was going to be used by fishing
16 charters and water taxis, who had repeated
17 daily trips generated at this marina, I think
18 it's unquestioned by everyone that the baseline
19 would be eleven powerboat slips, and as many
20 sailboat slips as logical to locate at this
21 location.
22 So what we have proposed is a 70-slip
23 marina, at this point, six slips dedicated to
24 the law enforcement effort at the confluence of
25 the Miami River, and then the remaining
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1 64 slips to be utilized on a commercial, slash,
2 support facility for the hotel, the
3 700,000 square feet of commercial space, we
4 have restaurants there, we have facilities that
5 will be augmented by access by boat.
6 We then will have a multifamily residential
7 component at this location, which we estimate
8 to be in the 39-slip area.
9 So what I have before you I believe is the
10 tough job of deciding --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's over and above the
12 70?
13 MR. MATTHEWS: No, sir. That's --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's included in the --
15 MR. MATTHEWS: -- contained within the 70.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
17 MR. MATTHEWS: So -- so I think what we
18 come here today looking for your divine
19 guidance on is how to balance the -- the policy
20 objectives of this aquatic preserve, which have
21 as one of their goals how to utilize this
22 waterway for recreational, fishing, boating,
23 and swimming.
24 This waterway will absolutely benefit from
25 the location of this marina proposal. And what
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1 we're asking from you is about 3.2 acres of
2 preempted area represented by the fingers
3 provided by the slips.
4 So -- so I hope we've been able to
5 demonstrate, and that the City and Swire can be
6 applauded for bringing a joint private-public
7 partnership here to achieve an overall public
8 project.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we'll see how much
10 applaud -- applauding will go on in a little
11 bit. But any --
12 MR. MATTHEWS: I'm going to -- Art Serig
13 is --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
15 MR. MATTHEWS: -- Miami Marine Patrol can
16 speak to the law enforcement issues.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, sir.
18 MR. SERIG: Good morning, Governor,
19 Cabinet.
20 My name is Sergeant Art Serig. I'm with
21 the City of Miami Marine Patrol. Been a
22 law enforcement officer for 28 years in Miami,
23 and been assigned to the marine unit for
24 eight years.
25 The first thing I'd like to do is
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1 thank you, Governor, for your new initiative on
2 the Miami River. Thank you for your support
3 and your insight, your commitment to helping us
4 in Miami. It's a -- it's a big help. I've
5 noticed a difference already. And I -- I think
6 this project'll also help.
7 The construction of the six wet slips and
8 the relocation of the headquarters to
9 Brickell Key --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Where are you -- where are
11 you located now?
12 MR. SERIG: I'm at Watson Island on the
13 second floor of the Miami Yacht Club.
14 This improves all the services that we
15 could deliver to the citizens of Miami, the
16 crime protection, the boating safety, and the
17 environmental protection, the manatee
18 protection.
19 It's centrally located, and it quickens our
20 response to all areas of the city. It puts us
21 right in the central part of the city, and the
22 busiest part, and the busiest boating area in
23 the City of Miami.
24 Law enforcement can sometimes be just like
25 real estate, it depends on one thing, it
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1 depends on your location. This is an important
2 location to me. We spend a lot of time on the
3 Miami River.
4 We're one of the only agencies that patrols
5 it on a -- on a -- I'd say a daily basis, and
6 we're committed to the Miami River because of
7 the business opportunities that are there, and
8 the money that's generated on the Miami River.
9 Policing the Miami River is critical to
10 performing our mission on the
11 police department. And I don't think there's a
12 better alternative to accomplish this mission,
13 than to concentrate our resources there on the
14 northwest corner.
15 It's a location that everyone goes by, and
16 they see law enforcement there. Where I'm at
17 now, I'm sort of hidden, and I have boats up --
18 that are all over the city. I have boats at
19 Dinner Key now, I have boats at Bayside, and I
20 have boats there.
21 So my downtime for my officers to drive to
22 those vessels are time that will be made up if
23 they are at an office where they can get on the
24 boat and get out on the water faster.
25 The visibility at this location is
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1 invaluable to us. It really is.
2 In addition, the on-water law enforcement
3 time is very -- is practical, and it -- it
4 improves our ability to respond to the citizens
5 and their request for service.
6 Swire Property has already provided a bi--
7 the bicycle unit with the Miami Police
8 Department, a location on the island, and they
9 have shown to be a very cooperative partner
10 with us.
11 Law enforcement needs this facility badly.
12 I don't have a world class facility. I think I
13 have a world class operation, but I don't have
14 a world class facility.
15 I'd like to see this project go forward,
16 and it would benefit the citizens of Miami;
17 and, of course, law enforcement; and the
18 initiatives on the Miami River.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
20 MR. SERIG: Thank you very much.
21 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Commissioner.
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Sergeant, I'm curious.
24 Could -- if it's possible, could you point on
25 that big map behind you where you're located
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1 now?
2 MR. SERIG: Yes, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Please, sir.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: He can't.
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Can't do it.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: It's a bit higher.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's -- it's west -- east
8 of --
9 COMMISSIONER CRIST: It's off the map.
10 MR. SERIG: This is the location right now.
11 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Yes, sir.
12 MR. SERIG: We are located over here, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay. Thank you, sir.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: And you have boats you said
15 in -- in Bay--
16 MR. SERIG: It's a little --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Bayside, which is just
18 north of the river.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Will you point out your
20 other locations of boats?
21 MR. SERIG: I have -- I have one slip
22 here --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: And then one down --
24 MR. SERIG: -- I have three vessels here --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: One at the bottom.
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1 MR. SERIG: -- at Watson Island. And
2 Dinner Key, you can't see it. It's -- it's
3 further south than -- I have a boat down there.
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: So you would be right
5 next to the Miami River at this location; is
6 that correct?
7 MR. SERIG: Over in here I would have an
8 observation post to watch the Miami River, any
9 activity going in, any activity coming out,
10 which is sort of crucial.
11 In the last eight years that I've been
12 involved with the Miami River Commission, one
13 of the most important things that they've asked
14 for, and a lot of the studies that have come
15 forward is that they wanted a law enforcement
16 presence on the Miami River.
17 U.S. Customs now has their -- their
18 operation, which we call Papa 100. But the
19 marine unit has moved. The marine facility is
20 not there. It's at Homestead Air Force Base.
21 So they've taken the marina -- they keep
22 some of their vessels there. And they -- and
23 just added some marked vessels there.
24 But the fact that they're manned, and
25 they're there, and they're able to respond to
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1 the Miami River, U.S. Customs doesn't usually
2 do that. That's my responsibility.
3 But we -- we work with them on the seizures
4 on the Miami River and on the drug aspect. But
5 to have local law enforcement be there
6 basically a 24-hour operation, because we're on
7 call, and we would be there, and the boats
8 would be there, and they'd be seen by people
9 coming in and out.
10 And at that intersection, which are the two
11 major thoroughfares of the water community, it
12 would be a big benefit to all of us.
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thanks, Governor.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Sergeant, how many boats
15 do you have now that cover that area?
16 MR. SERIG: Well, I have nine, ma'am. But
17 I couldn't tell you that I have nine in the
18 water.
19 I have -- I have four that are in -- in
20 disrepair, and we're trying to put those -- I
21 have new engines ordered, and we're trying to
22 have a fleet of about nine. And that would
23 include some smaller vessels, some jet skis.
24 But boats that would actually do the
25 major -- majority of the patrolling would be
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1 seven.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: And so --
3 MR. SERIG: And a --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- would you keep --
5 MR. SERIG: -- seven-man unit.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Would you keep your
7 posts, like, on Dinner Key as they're spread
8 out right now?
9 MR. SERIG: I would -- I would keep the
10 majority of them there. I might keep one down
11 there for an emergency if there was an incident
12 and somebody was coming from home, they could
13 have the boat down at Dinner Key.
14 But the officers and the boats that they
15 would patrol in, I would keep there --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Keep there --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Keep at --
18 MR. SERIG: -- at --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Brickell Key?
20 MR. SERIG: At Brickell Key.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. And how many --
22 do you -- I mean, right now, do you have in
23 your budget to have the six boats that will be
24 there?
25 MR. SERIG: I already have the boats --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: The boats. And you're
2 going to consolidate off --
3 MR. SERIG: They need to be repaired, and
4 that's in the process now.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. And when did you
6 start working on this project for Brickell?
7 MR. SERIG: Well, I've been in the
8 Marine Patrol for eight years, and this project
9 has been talked about at least for five or six
10 in the community about moving my operation --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: And this particular
12 project that we're talking about now, when did
13 you start working on it?
14 MR. SERIG: I'm going to guess, ma'am, and
15 say, probably in the last -- real heavily in
16 the last two years, year-and-a-half, two years.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: And is there any other
18 land that you -- that you're aware of that the
19 City or State owns, like across -- exactly
20 across the way, or anything else along that
21 area?
22 MR. SERIG: That the City owns? The City
23 does own some more land, that I'm aware of,
24 up --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: I can talk -- I can ask
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1 the Mayor. But --
2 MR. SERIG: -- up the -- up the river.
3 There's some parks and some locations like
4 that.
5 But to be, you know, at a point right
6 there -- and not only that, but to have another
7 entity build the facility right now at the --
8 the way the budget is in the City, I don't know
9 that there's the money to build a Marine Patrol
10 facility, and this is going to be provided for
11 us.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: So they've committed to
13 build the facility -- it talks about a
14 temporary facility in the next nine months.
15 But -- but there will be a facility in their
16 plans, and --
17 MR. SERIG: Yes, ma'am.
18 My understanding is that they will make the
19 temporary facility that we could move into
20 right now. And we're ready to move in as soon
21 as -- as they're ready to have us move in. And
22 the -- and the slips would be built. We'd have
23 to have the slips there also.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: And the permanent
25 facility?
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1 MR. SERIG: The permanent facility, you'd
2 have to ask Swire when the last building's --
3 or that building is going to be built on the
4 corner.
5 Because the -- the project was to build an
6 observation post so that from our offices,
7 where the officers and where I sit, we can
8 watch the Miami River.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: And that includes their
10 building the observation tower as well, or
11 deck, whatever it is?
12 MR. SERIG: Either that, or having the
13 ability to watch from the office itself.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
15 MR. SERIG: Thank you.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
17 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Not --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: If I'm hearing you
20 right, it sounds like this would give you the
21 opportunity to have a 24-hour -- you know, be
22 able to stand watch over where there's a
23 significant drug infusion problem in south
24 Florida.
25 MR. SERIG: That was the gist of all the
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1 other studies that have been -- they want a
2 24-hour marine operation, observation post at
3 the -- at the entrance to the Miami River.
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay. Thanks.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, David.
6 Anybody else have any questions?
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: One last question.
8 When did you get -- when did you do the
9 bicycle route on --
10 MR. SERIG: I -- I believe our bicycle unit
11 has been on there. And they use it as a -- a
12 storage place for the bikes for the -- the bike
13 unit. And they also use it I think as a
14 headquarters for the supervisors to do
15 paperwork.
16 But the actual bike unit themselves are
17 assigned to different areas. They just use
18 that as a meeting point.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thanks.
20 MR. STRUHS: Mr. Larsen is also speaking on
21 behalf of the applicant.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you could be brief, sir.
23 The little red light went off a while back.
24 I'm not sure they gave you notice that we were
25 trying to put a restriction on you.
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1 MR. LARSEN: I'd like to discuss as much --
2 First of all, my name's Paul Larsen. I'm
3 an environmental engineer working with Swire.
4 And I'd like to discuss why I believe
5 manatees are better off with the project than
6 without.
7 And the primary reason is because of
8 law enforcement and educational features of the
9 project vastly outweigh any possible detriments
10 of the docks and the boats.
11 There's more boats registered in
12 Miami-Dade County than in any other county.
13 I think it's up to 60,000 now.
14 And of these, only a relatively small
15 fraction, like eight or nine thousand, are
16 larger than 26 feet. Most of the boats are in
17 the category of 16 to 26 feet.
18 These are the fast, high-powered boats that
19 threaten manatees with blunt trauma and with
20 propeller damage.
21 Of the larger boats that are primarily kept
22 in marinas, about half are sailboats. So
23 considering the high speed boats that threaten
24 manatees, about 80 percent of them are kept on
25 trailers, or launched in government-owned
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1 ramps, or kept in dry storage facilities;
2 12 percent are kept in wet slips at private
3 docks behind houses; and only 8 percent are
4 kept in wet slip marinas and multifamily
5 marinas.
6 In other words, closing down all the wet
7 slip marinas in Dade County would have a very,
8 very small effect on boat traffic in
9 Dade County, and have little effect on reducing
10 manatee boat collisions.
11 It seems that the theory behind the
12 Manatee Protection Plan focus on restricting
13 wet slip marinas is to reduce powerboat
14 activity in the bay by making boating
15 inconvenient.
16 And that's like trying to reduce traffic
17 accidents in highways by not allowing
18 construction of parking garages.
19 Instead, we all know that the way to reduce
20 traffic accidents is to build safe roads,
21 educate drivers, and enforce traffic laws?
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you think we ought to
23 get rid of all the manatee protection plans in
24 the state?
25 MR. LARSEN: No, sir. I'm saying that in
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1 the context of all the efforts that we do to
2 protect manatees, the wet slip component is a
3 small one.
4 And to focus on that to the exclusion of
5 other things, like the boats that are kept
6 in -- in -- boats that are launched at
7 launching ramps is basically -- winds up being
8 ineffective and futile.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: So -- so, therefore, I'm
10 asking again. If -- if -- I don't think the
11 manatee protection plans have much of an impact
12 on the 92 percent of the -- the boats that are
13 registered in Dade County, as you stated, that
14 aren't in wet --
15 MR. LARSEN: No. Actually the Manatee
16 Protection Plan does cover those -- those
17 elements.
18 However, there doesn't seem to be much
19 focus on those elements in the plan. And we
20 believe a balanced plan should recognize the
21 fact that a very small percentage of the boats
22 in Miami-Dade County are kept in wet slips at
23 marinas.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: How would you do it? How
25 would you focus on -- you're going to shut down
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1 public boat ramps, would that be the way to do
2 it?
3 MR. LARSEN: No, sir. The focus has to be
4 to have -- provide law enforcement that covers
5 all the boats, not just to try to restrict wet
6 slips.
7 So my -- I -- I see that the -- the red
8 light's on here.
9 But the -- I believe that the way to
10 protect manatees in this county is to focus on
11 law enforcement, boater education so that all
12 of the people then are regulated in -- and --
13 and are -- and are -- and we promote safe
14 boating, and safe boating in terms of manatees.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
16 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Would you -- Governor,
17 I --
18 I once introduced a bill to put prop guards
19 on all propellers for motor boats, and the
20 industry went bananas.
21 But -- it's an idea.
22 Have you ever thought about that?
23 MR. LARSEN: I think that what happens --
24 and I haven't given that a lot of thought. But
25 the -- most of the boats, the powerboats,
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1 the -- the outboard boats, become very
2 inefficient with a prop guard.
3 And I believe that what we can say though
4 is that legal boat operations don't jeopardize
5 manatees.
6 In other words, the people that are
7 observing the speed limits, and we can enforce
8 the speed limits. And theoretically, we should
9 have a safe co-existence between boats and
10 manatees.
11 And so that the best way to go is with
12 law enforcement.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
14 Secretary Struhs?
15 MR. STRUHS: Governor, members of the
16 Cabinet, as -- as -- as staff to you as the
17 Board of Trustees, it's extremely frustrating
18 to have now before us an entirely different
19 proposal than the one we had on the agenda.
20 And I think to be fair, we've got to
21 recognize that this is an agenda that has
22 appeared before you six times since July of
23 last year.
24 And while there may be some very positive
25 aspects of what has been presented here, it's
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1 not at all what was on the agenda, or what we
2 originally brought to you for your
3 consideration.
4 So just be aware of that.
5 I think it's also probably worthwhile if we
6 could invite Mr. Brad Hartman from the Florida
7 Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to
8 speak specifically to the issues of the
9 manatees from their perspective.
10 And then we have three individuals who
11 would like to speak on the opposing point of
12 view.
13 I would also add that the issue of citing
14 slips for law enforcement is an issue that can
15 obviously be dealt with in -- in a variety of
16 ways, and, indeed, one that we probably have
17 some of our own ideas that could be helpful to
18 the City.
19 I'm thinking that issue, while perhaps
20 related to this proposal, is not necessarily
21 the only solution to accomplish that end.
22 MR. HARTMAN: Governor, members of the
23 Cabinet, I'm Brad Hartman. I'm Director of
24 Environmental Services with the Fish and
25 Wildlife Conservation Commission.
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1 We've been involved with this project for
2 some time now.
3 We have leaned pretty heavily on the
4 Manatee Protection Plan for our guidance, and
5 we were also involved in the development of
6 that plan.
7 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
8 MR. HARTMAN: The Manatee Protection Plan
9 has this entire area an essential manatee
10 habitat. It has -- it has no provisions in it
11 for commercial traffic or commercial marinas at
12 this facility.
13 The plan does identify specific places
14 where -- where they are encouraging commercial
15 marinas, or allowing commercial marinas without
16 any restriction on powerboats.
17 In this particular location, what the
18 Manatee Protection Plan called for is allow
19 riparian access for multifamily residence, and
20 allowing up to one powerboat per 100 feet.
21 And it also does allow for water taxis.
22 Mr. Matthews mentioned that -- I think that
23 there's commercial water taxies would be
24 allowed at a density of one per 500 feet, or
25 the ten or eleven that Mr. Matthews mentioned.
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1 This is an area that -- that -- the reason
2 this is in essential habitat, and the reason
3 this has not been identified as commercial
4 area, is because it is -- there's such a large
5 amount of manatees in the area, in the
6 Miami River, coming out of the Miami River,
7 feeding on the grass flats in this area --
8 (Treasurer Gallagher entered the room.)
9 MR. HARTMAN: -- and it's not where we want
10 to see, or where the County wants to see in
11 their plan, the development of --
12 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
13 MR. HARTMAN: -- commercial marinas, or
14 additional boat ramps, or additional other
15 access for watercraft.
16 We disagree with the Fish and Wildlife
17 Service on this particular one, and we don't do
18 that very often. The Fish and Wildlife Service
19 went through a fairly complicated formula for
20 determining an increase in -- in
21 law enforcement effort that would result from
22 this.
23 We're not sure -- we don't see that as --
24 as important. We see it as more important
25 that -- that where we finally get a Manatee
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1 Protection Plan in place, and everybody agrees
2 to it, that we -- we stick to what that plan
3 calls for.
4 Be glad to answer any questions.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, sir.
6 MR. STRUHS: Okay. The three speaking on
7 the other side are Jerry Karnus, Save the
8 Manatee Club; Nancy Brown, Friends of the
9 Everglades; and Charles Lee, Florida Audubon.
10 If you could all cue up and keep things
11 moving, please.
12 And we're limiting, Jose, to what?
13 MR. BOSCAN: Three minutes.
14 MR. STRUHS: Three minutes a piece?
15 MR. KARNUS: Good morning, Governor,
16 members of the Cabinet.
17 I had -- woke up this morning, and I had a
18 horrible dream. It was that I was a sixty year
19 old environmentalist working here, and that I
20 was preparing myself for what I really thought
21 was going to be the D-day for Brickell Key.
22 This product has been 25 years in the
23 making in some form or another, and I know that
24 the venerable and wise Nancy Brown has been
25 there for every single one of those years.
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1 And it -- you know, we -- we say a lot in
2 the environmental community, that sometimes
3 projects don't -- just don't go away, they keep
4 coming back.
5 This -- this project is in -- as Brad
6 said -- essential manatee habitat. It's a
7 vital manatee corridor.
8 And the aerial survey data that I supplied
9 to y'all actually in July of last year was
10 truly compelling. The manatees hang out right
11 where they want to put these docks.
12 And although we have a -- a recommend-- a
13 new proposal here that would suff--
14 dramatically limit the number of powerboat
15 slips, we can't forget that added traffic in
16 this area, whether it be from sailboats or
17 powerboats, will, you know -- will really
18 change the manatees' activities in this area
19 that they use as a travel corridor and a
20 resting place.
21 A couple things I'd like to address here
22 is, one, the Corps permit has been suspended.
23 That is -- and upon denial from the DEP, it
24 will be revoked. They now understand that
25 they -- that they were in error, it was
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1 suspended yesterday, and they --
2 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
3 MR. KARNUS: -- notified the DE-- the DEP.
4 Basically the Fish and Wildlife Service,
5 because this product has gone through so many
6 permutations over the years, it was really
7 unclear as to what they were advising on.
8 And basically they looked at this project
9 as if it was solely a residential marina, not
10 as a commercial marina, which we now know today
11 that it is.
12 So --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: What difference would that
14 make?
15 MR. KARNUS: Well, excuse me?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: What difference would that
17 make?
18 MR. KARNUS: Well, according to the Manatee
19 Protection Plan, there -- there is a -- they
20 allow for residential marina at the -- at this
21 site.
22 Whereas, a commercial marina would be
23 limited to the one to five hundred shoreline to
24 boat rat-- powerboat ratio, or to the one to
25 100 ratio for the residential and multifamily
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1 slip dock.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Would that --
3 MR. KARNUS: So --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- would -- if this was
5 residential, would this marina, as it's amended
6 here, would that comply?
7 MR. KARNUS: It --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Nope.
9 MR. KARNUS: If it was purely for
10 residential purposes, yes, it -- it would
11 comply with the plan.
12 They would be all-- be allowed to have
13 46 powerboat slips, because there is
14 4600 feet -- linear feet of shoreline.
15 So --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, how about eleven --
17 MR. KARNUS: Well, eleven will --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- powerboats?
19 MR. KARNUS: Well, yes, eleven would comply
20 with the plan. But what I'd like to highlight
21 here is that this is extremely confusing.
22 You know, obviously we received this this
23 morning, so we really --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand.
25 MR. KARNUS: -- can't comment on it.
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1 But I -- just a couple things jump out at
2 me.
3 And one is, if there's 25 set aside for
4 short-term rentals, how can we enforce that
5 those 25 are going to be not powerboats?
6 It doesn't make any sense.
7 If the eleven powerboat slips are for --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a good point.
9 MR. KARNUS: -- the -- the special
10 family -- special mixed use, which would be
11 1 to 500, they -- you know, those are for
12 either charter boats, or for water taxis. It's
13 clear in the plan that that's what it says.
14 So then what about these other short-term
15 rentals?
16 I don't see how that's enforceable.
17 The other issues I'd like to talk about
18 today is -- is that the enforcement
19 relocation -- it's a mere relocation. We --
20 we're not getting any net benefit of
21 enforcement officers, they're not keeping their
22 site at the Watson Island right -- right now.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: See that red light?
24 MR. KARNUS: Oh, am I on -- am I --
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It's been on awhile.
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1 MR. KARNUS: It goes so fast.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know. It's amazing.
3 Can you close?
4 And be around for questions.
5 MR. KARNUS: I'll -- I'll close on that.
6 Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 Thanks.
9 MR. LEE: Governor, members of the Board of
10 Trustees, Charles Lee representing Audubon of
11 Florida.
12 And also asked to speak here this morning
13 on behalf of our largest Audubon chapter in
14 Florida, the Tropical Audubon Society from
15 Miami.
16 We fully support the staff recommendation
17 of denial for this project. We don't think
18 that the changes offered late by the applicant
19 make a material difference, and would move this
20 out from under the recommendation of denial.
21 (Commissioner Crist entered the room.)
22 MR. LEE: We think denial is the
23 appropriate response.
24 There are at least three levels to that:
25 One, the manatee issue as that has been
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1 discussed by Mr. Hartman of the Fish and
2 Wildlife Conservation Commission, and
3 Mr. Karnus of Save the Manatee.
4 Also the fact, as is specified very clearly
5 in your agenda item, this does not meet the
6 other tenets of necessity and extreme hardship
7 that exist in the Biscayne Bay Aquatic Preserve
8 rules.
9 Biscayne Bay, Governor, and members of the
10 Board, is different. It's deliberately
11 different. It was made so by the Legislature,
12 after projects like this proliferated along the
13 shoreline and threatened to take up the rest of
14 the shoreline and the bay.
15 The only way to get to it was to put on a
16 statutory, very tough test.
17 And the tough test in this case, as we
18 think accurately interpreted by your staff,
19 says appropriately, no.
20 I find it disturbing that instead of the
21 primary thrust of this marina being advocated
22 for its commercial and -- and other docking
23 purposes here today, that what the advocates
24 for this project seem to try to set this up as,
25 and face you all as Trustees, and us as the
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1 public off against, is a choice that involves
2 law enforcement.
3 And I just suggest to you respectfully that
4 there is not a law enforcement choice
5 associated with this project that is a
6 legitimate choice. If you're familiar with
7 this area, you know that the Watson Island site
8 is just a very couple of minutes away from this
9 location.
10 If you're familiar with the habits of law
11 enforcement and interception, you know that the
12 thing that people look out for is not a guy
13 standing on the shoreline or sitting in an
14 office on the shoreline, but a boat in the
15 water ready to intercept.
16 A boat in the water can be ready to
17 intercept at this location, and any other
18 location on the Miami River, regardless of
19 where the shore station is located.
20 And further we would suggest, if there
21 really is a need for a shore station at this
22 location, that instead of hitching up a -- what
23 is essentially a -- a commercial marina
24 facility is the reason to do it, let's do a
25 hard look at other potential sites at the mouth
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1 of the Miami River for a law enforcement
2 facility.
3 I don't think that anybody has set out on
4 that mission with any kind of deliberacy or --
5 or -- or commitment until this particular
6 marina project came along, and that was allowed
7 to be offered as sort of another ball to hang
8 on the Christmas tree, if you will, as a reason
9 to suggest that it ought to be done.
10 We don't think it ought to be done, we
11 think your staff has recommended the right
12 thing. We think the manatee is at stake.
13 And we also think a very critical precedent
14 for the continued protection of the
15 Biscayne Bay Aquatic Preserve is at stake, and
16 we think you ought to say no, as your staff has
17 recommended.
18 Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Charles.
20 Yes. Commissioner.
21 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thank you.
22 Charles. If I could ask a question.
23 Hi. Right here.
24 I want to make sure I understand the
25 manatee issue. I'm from St. Petersburg. My
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1 parents live on the water, they have a dock,
2 manatees hang out by the dock.
3 Do you think that having slips will have
4 manatees not hang out there anymore?
5 MR. LEE: Commissioner, I don't think the
6 question is whether they will hang out or not
7 hang out. I think the question is the degree
8 of danger they will be in while hanging out.
9 And if you are familiar with this location,
10 and it happens that our Audubon state office is
11 actually located in a building where we can
12 look over this area which Mr. Peeples described
13 as an intersection, which we would choose to
14 describe as our bay, it is one of the highest
15 areas. If you're up eight floors, as our
16 office is, you can look out and see a
17 tremendous amount of manatee activity in that
18 location.
19 The Miami River is one of the more
20 traditional places for manatees to go in, and
21 it -- it receives some of the highest activity
22 in the entire south Florida area.
23 So it's not a question of them being unable
24 to hang out, it's the fact that the more of
25 these kind of commercial slips you put in
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1 there, the greater you intensify the attractive
2 nuisance situation, and risk the manatees
3 being -- being destroyed in the process.
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Does it mitigate at
5 all in your mind the fact that there are going
6 to be mostly sailboats, as opposed to motor
7 boats? Or doesn't that matter?
8 MR. LEE: The -- first of all, I -- I would
9 have a lot of questions, based on experience
10 around the state, about who's going to be out
11 there enforcing rigorously that position.
12 I think it's probably pretty impractical to
13 enforce.
14 Larger -- larger motor boats don't go fast,
15 but they swing much larger propellers. And if
16 you look at the manatee statistics in terms
17 of -- of the manatees that are killed by
18 propellers, they're more often killed outright
19 by the huge slash of a large boat's propeller,
20 than they are a small boat's propeller.
21 There also is the problem of some of these
22 boats rocking and pinning manatees against the
23 sea wall when a -- when a wake throws them up.
24 So there are a lot of -- lot of issues
25 associated with commercial marinas, which is
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1 why, as an overarching matter, the plan does
2 not recommend them in this location, and why we
3 think your staff was justified in saying no.
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: And final question on
5 the manatee issue, do you think it's relevant
6 that if law enforcement is there, that the
7 rules regarding manatees and their safety
8 would be more readily enforced; or do you think
9 that the closeness or proximity of
10 law enforcement there is irrelevant in that
11 instance, just as you think it's irrelevant to
12 drug interdiction?
13 MR. LEE: I don't think it's irrelevant to
14 drug interdiction, and I don't think it's
15 irrelevant to manatee enforcement either.
16 But in either case, the person in the boat
17 ready to write a ticket, or ready to pull a
18 suspicious party over, the boat on the water is
19 the issue, not a shore station.
20 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thank you.
21 Thanks, Governor.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
23 MR. STRUHS: There -- there is one last
24 speaker, Nancy Brown, from Friends of the
25 Everglades.
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1 I unfortunately had to step out for a
2 moment, and I apologize for that.
3 But I understand that while I was out,
4 there was a question raised as it may relate to
5 property rights and riparian access.
6 Just to -- to clarify --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't think so.
8 MR. STRUHS: No?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Was there a question about
10 riparian rights?
11 Someone was just kidding you.
12 MR. STRUHS: They do that sometimes.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: What -- what --
14 COMMISSIONER CRIST: They do it to us, too,
15 David.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: What was the question?
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: What were you going to
18 say?
19 MR. STRUHS: I was going to say, if --
20 if -- if this were residential property --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, okay. That was the
22 question.
23 MR. STRUHS: -- if there was residential
24 property, there is a riparian right to access
25 to the water for a pier, as opposed to a
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1 commercial facility where there's no ownership
2 of the upland.
3 That -- that would be the point.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, if my -- if -- if
5 this is a commercial development of residential
6 property. Which one is this?
7 Just a second. Hang on a second, ma'am.
8 MR. STRUHS: I'm -- I'm advised that it's
9 commercial. It's not residential.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Even though residential
11 people live there principally?
12 MR. STRUHS: The marina is a commercial
13 marina.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: See, no -- no
16 individuals own the dock. Maybe if the
17 condominium wanted us to do it, it would work.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, ma'am. Welcome.
19 MS. BROWN: Nancy Brown with Friends of the
20 Everglades.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to turn those
22 microphones back towards you?
23 MS. BROWN: Happy to see you all here
24 today. All --
25 I was just reminded to --
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1 (Commissioner Rhodes exited the room.)
2 MS. BROWN: -- remind you all that the
3 manatee mortalities take place to the north of
4 this area, north of Watson Island, in fact,
5 more so than they take place in the southern
6 area of the bay.
7 That may be significant, but, you know, I
8 have my own concerns about that. I think that
9 it is not the absence of manatee speed zone
10 signs that kill manatees, it is the props and
11 the hulls that, as Charles Lee pointed out,
12 injure, kill, and crush the manatees. And this
13 is an area of tight manatee activity.
14 I'm just going to speak to you, however, on
15 the statute itself.
16 You all are here today, not just because
17 we're talking about the potential for a lease
18 of sovereignty submerged land, but because the
19 Biscayne Bay Aquatic Preserve Act requires that
20 you all consider two things when you think
21 about the project and the lease of this land,
22 and that is that there must be an extreme
23 hardship on the part of the applicant here.
24 And I really haven't heard much about their
25 hardship, and I -- but I can tell you that
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1 their financial hardships are not part of that
2 hardship.
3 This is -- that is not a legal hardship,
4 according to the Act, and to the rules.
5 Let me read you just a little bit though
6 from the statute. Says extreme hardship -- and
7 this is sort of important, because the
8 applicants here have wrenched out some language
9 from one part of the rule, and the Act, and
10 tried to plug them into another section.
11 And that's called, you know, sort of a
12 violation of statutory construction. And I'm
13 sure that, you know, these applicants here
14 have -- know all about the statutory
15 construction, because they have, in fact,
16 constructed quite a few bills in the
17 Legislature.
18 Okay. Extreme hardship is a significant
19 burden that says -- but down at the bottom of
20 that definition of extreme hardship, it says:
21 The term may be inherent in public projects
22 which are shown to be a public necessity.
23 When you look at another section here --
24 and -- and I am not wrenching out of context, I
25 promise. I don't do that.
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1 (Commissioner Rhodes entered the room.)
2 MS. BROWN: -- there are eight projects in
3 which sovereignty submerged land may be
4 requested.
5 One of them is the creation of a commercial
6 industrial dock, which is what we're dealing
7 with here.
8 Down at the bottom of that list of eight is
9 something that says, other projects. Now,
10 other is to me an exclusionary word. It
11 doesn't include other things --
12 -- other projects which are a public
13 necessity -- and I'll just stop there. A
14 public necessity, because there's an or in
15 there.
16 But both of them must be consistent with
17 the act in this chapter.
18 So then you look at the definition of
19 public necessity -- and let me just finish
20 that.
21 Public necessity is not what the City of
22 Miami wants; or what the applicant wants; or
23 what representatives of, you know, Dade County
24 want. That is not important.
25 Public necessity by the definition in the
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1 rules of 18-18 mean works or improvements
2 required for the protection of the health and
3 safety of the public, and for which no other
4 reasonable alternative exists.
5 And this, friends, does not include a
6 marina. That is not a public necessity by any
7 twist of the words of this definition.
8 What that is is what Friends of the
9 Everglades themselves did by suing the DEP --
10 pardon me -- by suing --
11 Sorry about that.
12 -- suing Dade County and failing to
13 maintain its water and sewer system, they had
14 to replace a major sewage pipe across
15 Biscayne Bay, because it was leaking badly.
16 And before it became a shower in
17 Biscayne Bay, it was approved for replacement
18 without having to go through any of the
19 rigmarole of extreme hardship because it was
20 exempted for the reasons listed here in 8, that
21 it was necessary for the public welfare and
22 safety.
23 And that is the only thing that it applies
24 to.
25 Thank you very much for your time.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
2 MR. STRUHS: If it would be useful to the
3 Cabinet, we do have, as a resource available,
4 a -- a lawyer from the Department who could
5 opine on the high bar that is set by the
6 Biscayne Bay Aquifer Preserve Statute, if
7 that's -- if that's useful to you?
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: That'd be useful.
10 I think --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
12 MR. COSTIGAN: Good morning, Governor, and
13 members of the Cabinet.
14 I'm John Costigan, Deputy General Counsel
15 with the Department of Environmental
16 Protection.
17 In his opening comments, Secretary Struhs
18 noted briefly that Biscayne Bay Aquatic
19 Preserve is unique, and that there was a high
20 bar in order to use sovereign submerged lands
21 in this particular aquatic preserve.
22 That is true, I think, like all aquatic
23 preserves, it first requires any lease or use
24 of sovereign submerged lands requires a finding
25 that it is in the public interest by you
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1 sitting as the Board of Trustees.
2 That is no different from any other aquatic
3 preserve. And in that context, you've heard
4 discussion here this morning and the agenda
5 item speaks to a balancing test of costs versus
6 benefits.
7 So when you discuss the impact on manatees
8 and the question of law enforcement, or
9 resource impacts, the presence of sea grass,
10 and other resources, those are all in the
11 context of the public interest, and the public
12 interest test.
13 The unique test in the Biscayne Bay Aquatic
14 Preserve stems from its own statute by which it
15 was created. And it does, as Mrs. Brown noted,
16 require a finding -- or first an affirmative
17 showing by the applicant that their -- their
18 application is necessary because it's an
19 extreme hardship not to grant them this use.
20 Now, if you'd looked at a flow chart on
21 this, you'd then take extreme hardship, which
22 is defined as a significant burden unique to
23 the applicant, and not shared by others in the
24 area.
25 Now, it then says that the term extreme
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1 hardship may be inherent in public projects
2 shown to be a public necessity.
3 And that's where much of the discussion has
4 centered this morning, and that -- that
5 discussion gets down to significant -- the term
6 may be inherent in public projects.
7 Now, a public necessity is a work
8 consistent with the Act, needed for protection
9 of the health and safety of the public, and for
10 which no reasonable alternative exists.
11 So in -- in determining whether or not
12 there's an extreme hardship here, or whether
13 that test has been met, you -- you consider
14 that definition.
15 One of the things in that definition is --
16 is the caveat that a public project, which is a
17 public necessity, may be by itself -- it's
18 inherent that that would be a sufficient
19 showing of extreme hardship.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Could I,
21 Governor?
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: General?
23 MR. COSTIGAN: You have to plug everything
24 you've heard this morning, and everything in
25 the agenda item into this framework.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: John, has
2 Miami-Dade County Department of Environmental
3 Resource Management taken a position on this
4 particular issue?
5 MR. COSTIGAN: It is my understanding that
6 they have. They've come out in opposition. I
7 think that is reflected in the agenda item.
8 I'm -- I'm not directly familiar with that.
9 But I think Melissa Meeker probably is,
10 or --
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Is that
12 because it's --
13 MR. COSTIGAN: -- or Secretary Struhs.
14 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- it's
15 inconsistent with Miami-Dade County Manatee
16 Protection Plan?
17 MR. COSTIGAN: I believe that's in the
18 agenda item also.
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
20 Has the Florida Fish and Wildlife
21 Conservation Commission taken any position
22 on -- on this issue?
23 MR. COSTIGAN: I believe they have, and I
24 think you heard from them this morning.
25 They're in opposition also.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What have
2 you heard as a lawyer, because you're -- may be
3 defending this -- what have you heard where --
4 of where the public interest is?
5 MR. COSTIGAN: Well, the public interest
6 is -- is the test that I've not concentrated on
7 as a lawyer. I mean, that's the same test you
8 have in your rules, and in the --
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Right.
10 MR. COSTIGAN: -- statutes on aquatic
11 preserves. That is a balancing test.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Of course,
13 you're going to have to -- if we happen to go
14 for this, you're going to have to -- you're
15 going to have to defend this in -- in court.
16 MR. COSTIGAN: Yes, Your Honor.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: What I've
18 heard so far today, I'll -- I'm not going to be
19 staying next to you second chair, that's for
20 sure.
21 MR. COSTIGAN: I understand.
22 Thank you.
23 Any other questions?
24 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I do.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: If I understand this
2 right, then we're coming down to, I think, two
3 interests away: Environmental interests
4 obviously; and a law enforcement interest,
5 apparently.
6 Is that fair to say?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ung-ugh.
8 MR. COSTIGAN: Well, I don't know that
9 that -- that is exclusively --
10 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I mean, people can
11 have other conclusions. I'm just trying to --
12 MR. COSTIGAN: Right.
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: -- cut to the chase.
14 MR. COSTIGAN: Well, the test is -- is in
15 finding whether or not something is an extreme
16 hardship that can -- that can cover a myriad of
17 circumstances.
18 In this particular instance, I think the
19 applicant is saying that this is a public
20 project because they have included the City in
21 this project. And they have created or
22 satisfied the public necessity test by placing
23 law enforcement and doing the other things
24 they've described today, both that were in
25 their application for, and the new additions to
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1 the application.
2 So I believe, and -- and Frank Matthews,
3 I mean, can better describe his client's
4 position than I.
5 But to me, it appears that they're trying
6 to satisfy the extreme hardship test by taking
7 the last caveat in the definition of that test,
8 and saying that this is a public project, and
9 is a public necessity.
10 That's -- that's the hook upon which
11 they're arguing to you that they satisfy
12 extreme hardship.
13 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay.
14 MR. COSTIGAN: And in doing that, they
15 raise questions about the law enforcement
16 presence and the other things.
17 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Right.
18 Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Has there -- has there been
20 a -- a case in the Biscayne Aquatic Preserve
21 where the -- an applicant came to this Board
22 and proved extreme hardship?
23 Prior -- I mean, it hadn't been since I've
24 been here. I'm just curious, in the past, has
25 there been --
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I can't
2 recall.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, let me ask
4 this --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- specific.
7 We --
8 Governor?
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Way back in probably
11 the early, mid-80s, Floral Island -- I think
12 Governor Graham was in office -- tried and
13 tried and tried and tried to get some boat
14 docks.
15 Were you around for that?
16 MR. COSTIGAN: No, sir, I was not.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think we have a --
18 someone that --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Maybe somebody was?
20 And finally -- maybe it was after Graham
21 left his office. But finally, I -- I don't
22 know what the procedure was, but there's --
23 there's docks there. So something happened.
24 Maybe somebody could tell us how.
25 MS. MEEKER: Melissa Meeker, Southeast
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1 District Director.
2 I'm not familiar with the case that you're
3 describing. However, I can say within the
4 last, I'd say, two months, I approved under
5 my -- the delegation that I have at my level --
6 a multislip facility for a sailing school for
7 disadvantaged students --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Coconut Grove.
9 MS. MEEKER: -- associated with the County.
10 Yes.
11 So we do -- they do --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: And why did it meet the
13 test? Just help us put -- this is all legal
14 talk.
15 I'm trying to get some --
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Public
17 interest.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- why -- what -- why -- it
19 was an extreme hardship because of the
20 public -- I mean, it --
21 MS. MEEKER: Because of the --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- passed the test?
23 MS. MEEKER: -- public interest, we felt
24 that they -- that they made the argument and
25 met --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: And was it located in a
2 place where the Manatee Protection Plan allowed
3 it to be located?
4 MS. MEEKER: I'm sorry. I'm -- I would --
5 I would think so. It's in a -- it's in another
6 area that would allow -- there were similar
7 types of facilities in that area. So --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You know what it is?
9 It's -- it's between Miami --
10 MS. MEEKER: The name of the --
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- Marina and
12 Monty's Marina. It's a -- right between those
13 two. And it's -- it's for the handicapped to
14 sail. And they've --
15 MS. MEEKER: The name of --
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- they've been
17 operating there.
18 MS. MEEKER: -- the project is Bayside.
19 MR. STRUHS: The Bayside project is the
20 name of it.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secre--
22 MR. STRUHS: I think -- I think one of the
23 things that -- that we're all struggling with
24 is that if this were your normal aquatic
25 preserve, it would, in fact, come down to
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1 I think what Commissioner Crist accurately
2 described as a balancing of -- of competing
3 needs and interests.
4 And, you know, the -- the issue is that
5 this law was written differently, and it was
6 written not as a balancing act, but rather a --
7 a -- a high test of --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Threshold.
9 MR. STRUHS: -- extreme hardship, which is
10 inherent in public projects.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary --
13 Thank you.
14 Secretary Struhs --
15 MR. STRUHS: Yes, ma'am.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- whenever we get an
17 unfavorable recommendation from DEP, you -- it
18 usually gets deferred or worked out.
19 I understand this is 25 years in coming.
20 And -- and we are -- we're visiting it again.
21 But -- and your staff has spoken. But
22 for -- it always means so much hearing from
23 you.
24 Can you -- can you kind of codify why,
25 because I always -- I've alw-- I always trust
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1 your judgment on these things, and I don't hear
2 what you're saying. And you gave us an
3 unfavorable recommendation, and I'd really like
4 to hear in your words why -- why not.
5 So far I don't see -- I mean, I -- I'm in
6 favor of marinas, and I think it's great. But
7 we had this huge issue in Sarasota which DEP
8 had said, this is a fine site, for even an
9 expansion of an existing marina.
10 And at that point, it just all blew up
11 and -- and -- and the Governor was so strong
12 about protecting manatees, I think he even
13 said, I for one, am not going to be responsible
14 for the extinction of the manatee.
15 You know, and so from that, we had this big
16 summit.
17 MR. STRUHS: Right.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: So now we're talking
19 about something quite different, and it --
20 and -- and the manatees are an issue. And
21 I guess what I'm not understanding -- again,
22 I'm -- I'm pro-business, and always want to see
23 these things happen, but -- but I'm -- I was
24 very cognizant of what happened at that time.
25 And now, all of a sudden, this is not a
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1 balancing test, and the law enforcement issue
2 just seems -- I mean, I don't know what the
3 Miami Circle site is, I don't know if there's
4 room, but there are other sites.
5 And extreme hardship, we have -- we're
6 covering that area in the water it seems. I
7 don't know what an observation tower really
8 does in terms of a deterrent. I don't know.
9 There might be another location that that
10 would be great to have. And if this is a
11 public interest project, and we were here
12 before the Cabinet approving the six slips for
13 law enforcement, that might be a tough call,
14 but we would -- we could do it.
15 I don't -- I could live with that.
16 I guess what I'm having a hard time with
17 is, that seems the extreme hardship -- if
18 there's an extreme hardship, put the site there
19 for the Marine Patrol.
20 What I don't understand is in aquatic
21 preserve, which has severe -- a strong loss in
22 terms of saying, there -- they give these not
23 balanced tests, not matching needs, but extreme
24 hardship, I don't understand that.
25 And so maybe you can help me with that, or
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1 explain why you took a negative position.
2 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- I, first of all,
3 appreciate your confidence, and --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate you putting him
5 on the line.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: I'm glad -- I mean,
7 that's his -- he does it very well.
8 MR. STRUHS: I -- I -- I read the -- the
9 legal standard, the legal test for this, and it
10 is clearly different than that that is applied
11 to the other aquatic preserves in Florida.
12 There will always be opportunities to
13 debate as to whether or not something is or is
14 not I think extreme hardship, particularly as
15 it relates to a public project.
16 And I think what Mr. Costigan was trying to
17 frame for you earlier was the applicant, in
18 this case, attempted to portray this, or
19 represent this, as a public project by creating
20 a partnership with the City of Miami, and did
21 that through -- through a legal means.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: About two months ago?
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think February?
25 Yeah.
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1 MR. STRUHS: The -- the issue, of course,
2 is -- is -- is it just a -- a paper shell, or
3 is there actually, indeed, a -- a legitimate
4 to -- public role in the project.
5 And I think that -- that's -- that's the
6 hard question that you now have before you.
7 The other thing, just to go back to a
8 previous comment that I made, is I am a little
9 bit frustrated that, having had this on the
10 agenda six times now, or seven times, to come
11 before you again -- I'm a little embarrassed to
12 come before you again, and -- and not have it
13 better locked down.
14 But, in fact, the project that was
15 presented to you this morning was not the one
16 that your Aides were briefed on, or I was
17 briefed on, as late as yesterday.
18 So --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, but the change is
20 that there are more --
21 MR. STRUHS: Right.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- sailing slips. So
23 would that have changed your recommendation?
24 I mean, that's not -- that's a nuance
25 change. But, I mean, would that have changed
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1 your recommendation?
2 MR. STRUHS: I guess part of what I'm
3 considering is, we have a proud tradition of
4 deferring this item.
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, I hate to break
6 a tradition.
7 MR. STRUHS: And -- and --
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just -- I'm
9 uncomfortable making a decision that -- without
10 real clear direction from you. You always give
11 us pretty clear --
12 MR. STRUHS: Well --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- direction.
14 MR. STRUHS: And I'm -- and I'm loathed --
15 I'm loathed to be a wimp and -- and -- and say
16 that we should defer it again.
17 But -- but given -- but given the fact that
18 the proposal presented today is different than
19 what we were all briefed on prior to the
20 meeting, given the fact that I think we should
21 be able to respond to the issue as to whether
22 or not inadequate law enforcement presence can
23 be made available at the site, with or without
24 this facility, to separate that out.
25 And, third, perhaps revisit the legal
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1 relationship between the project applicant and
2 the City of Miami, because there are probably
3 some things that they might do there that would
4 potentially affect the application in the
5 future.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, Governor, in --
7 in order to let them do their work, I'll move
8 to withdraw it. But I -- I -- or to defer
9 it --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's just see if there's a
11 consensus first.
12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- but I'm not sure
13 it's going to --
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Can --
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- fly.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- can I just ask --
17 well, I can't ask another question. It'll be
18 on --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Please.
20 Go ahead.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary Struhs,
22 this -- this is what -- this is what I'm having
23 a hard time with.
24 This is -- it -- it's a tough test. And
25 I'm -- and I'm not sure what -- what the change
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1 created in terms of your presentation. But I
2 need to understand that.
3 And again, I mean, I've always been,
4 you know, pro-marine industry, boating, all
5 those kind of things. I think it's great.
6 I'm very concerned that it's -- it's in the
7 area that is the aquatic preserve; I'm
8 extremely concerned when we really focused on
9 manatees, that the Miami-Dade County Division
10 of Environmental Resource Management was
11 negative about this, that they say it doesn't
12 meet -- meet the Manatee Protection Plan of
13 Miami-Dade, and that's a question that we
14 always ask.
15 And -- and then finally, on this extreme
16 hardship, or the public necessity test, is that
17 no other site -- no other alternative is
18 available --
19 I mean, it seems like arguably, there --
20 Watson Island is available, arguably there may
21 be other sites. I don't want to hurt our
22 Miami Circle, our favorite project here at the
23 Cabinet. But that's land right there across
24 the bay.
25 I mean, there might -- it just doesn't
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1 seem -- it seems like we're making a decision
2 here, because all of a sudden this -- this --
3 the presence, and arguably the presence of
4 having something right there is -- is a
5 deterrent, or because it's more convenient,
6 what have you, if that's a public purpose.
7 But if that's really important, why aren't
8 we focusing on how we can accommodate that?
9 It just seems so strange. I just feel like
10 these two issues are -- are separate, and we're
11 combining them to try to make a decision on
12 something that we've -- that's been denied
13 25 years.
14 And I'm open to new reasons why it should
15 be approved, but not from a standpoint of an
16 agreement made two months ago. I haven't heard
17 the economic development benefit, I haven't
18 seen how the 25 slips that are going to be
19 available for an hour or more use is going to
20 revitalize the retail or restaurants on --
21 on -- on the island.
22 I just don't -- I just have a lot of
23 questions that aren't answered yet, and from --
24 in terms of the legal test.
25 MR. STRUHS: I think it -- I think it may
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1 be helpful, Madam Secretary, to -- to work
2 through the legal logic that -- that flows from
3 the statute that created this aquatic preserve.
4 It -- it sets the standard at extreme hardship,
5 and then it defines it as a significant burden
6 unique to the applicant, meaning it's not
7 shared by others in the area.
8 And -- and I think that's --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, can we ask
10 Mr. Matthews to --
11 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just to come and perhaps
13 talk about it from the perspective of the
14 applicant? We've been -- I think he's anxious
15 to do it, and it might bring --
16 MR. STRUHS: Yes, he is.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- it might bring some
18 clarity. It might not.
19 Who knows? We'll find out. He's pretty
20 good.
21 Passes all the laws in the Legislature
22 apparently. So --
23 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was a pretty good
25 endorsement.
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1 MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Governor.
2 I have cards in the back.
3 We're as frustrated as you are, because
4 there's -- there's no number. We've been
5 asking for a number. You know, is this number
6 of slips the critical question here. And --
7 and that's what we've not heard from Fish and
8 Wildlife Conservation Commission, or DEP.
9 We -- we've tried to do a combined project.
10 And when you have a public-private partnership,
11 everybody's got to get something, or you don't
12 have a partnership.
13 The City will not get six slips, they will
14 not get a headquarters for Marine Patrol
15 enforcement at this location, unless we can
16 combine it with some element of a commercial
17 revitalization, which is what we've suggested
18 under any criteria, eleven powerboat slips.
19 And I think you heard Brad Hartman say it.
20 I know DERM has said it. Yeah, 1 in 500 is the
21 lowest possible standard they could apply.
22 So what we've tried to introduce, since the
23 Cabinet Aides meeting, is a conversation about
24 some component of commercial revitalization
25 where people can come into the hotel, come into
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1 the restaurant, come into the shops.
2 If this was all multifamily residential
3 slips, you've heard people, all of them,
4 I think, come up here and say, we're entitled
5 to one powerboat slip for every 100 linear feet
6 of shoreline on Brickell Key.
7 And you started, Governor, to ask us, what
8 difference does it make to the manatee whether
9 or not that would be a multifamily residential
10 slip, or a commercial slip?
11 So we're all locked down by the definitions
12 here. We've tried to present a balanced
13 proposal which achieves the public interest of
14 recreation, three-and-a-half acre linear
15 Riverwalk Park is part of the proposal;
16 $500,000 for manatee education and awareness,
17 part of the proposal; six law enforcement
18 slips; one law enforcement headquarters.
19 You can't do it, Madam Secretary, somewhere
20 else on the river, or at Watson Island because
21 nobody's going to build it for them.
22 The City doesn't have the funds to go ahead
23 and make it a reality. Swire came to the table
24 and said, we wish to be your partner to ensure
25 that it does happen. We'll build it.
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1 It's a turnkey law enforcement benefit from
2 the Swire Properties perspective. We're
3 providing the slips, we're providing the
4 headquarters, we're making the improvements in
5 the park.
6 So -- so that's how the public -- and what
7 do we get? Well, we hopefully will get eleven
8 commercial motorboat slips, and 59 -- we
9 suggest 59 sailboat slips that will be utilized
10 by the multifamily residential unit owners.
11 We have over a mile of shoreline --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: The --
13 MR. MATTHEW: So clearly --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 25 -- the 25 short-term
15 rental slips are all sailboat?
16 MR. MATTHEWS: They would be a mixture
17 under our scenario. If you go eleven --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: But only eleven.
19 MR. MATTHEWS: -- motorboat --
20 That's right. Only eleven could be
21 motorboats. So it'd be, for lack of a better,
22 eleven motor, fourteen sail during the
23 short-term in and out for the hotel, for the
24 shopping.
25 So, you know, it -- it really is a tough
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1 act from our end to achieve the public
2 necessity. Clearly we hang our hat on
3 inherently a public project under the law meets
4 the extreme hardship test if the required
5 improvements meet the safety and health
6 dictates.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: So how do you get --
8 overcome the other issue, which is the Manatee
9 Protection Plan does not allow citing a marina
10 here --
11 MR. MATTHEWS: It -- it does. It allows a
12 one in 500 commercial --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: As it --
14 MR. MATTHEWS: -- slips.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commercial?
16 MR. MATTHEWS: It does allow 1 in 500
17 commercial slips at this location.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think -- well, that was
19 not what we heard. So can we get that
20 clarified?
21 MR. MATTHEWS: I mean -- yes. I'd love to
22 have that clarified, because I've had
23 Susan Markley tell us that --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, clarify it, please.
25 MR. STRUHS: Is Mr. Hartman here?
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Or someone from --
2 MR. STRUHS: Brad --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- y'all's --
4 MR. STRUHS: Where's Brad?
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Does Kirby
6 have the answer on that one?
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kirby?
8 I'd like someone from our Department to be
9 able to answer that.
10 MS. MEEKER: Can I?
11 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. Go ahead.
12 MS. MEEKER: Two points.
13 First, the item that staff reviewed to get
14 here was for 112 slips, which was not
15 consistent with the Manatee Protection Plan.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that.
17 MS. MEEKER: The sheet of paper you have in
18 front of you reduces the number of power slips
19 to eleven.
20 My calculations on what the Manatee
21 Protection Plan allows is about 9.4 slips,
22 powerboat slips that have --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: In a commercial marina.
24 MS. MEEKER: They have a criteria in there
25 for 1 to 500 square -- 1 to 500 linear feet
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1 for --
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: So --
3 MS. MEEKER: -- powerboat.
4 But, again, that -- that just addresses the
5 size of the marina that would be allowed. It
6 doesn't address the sailboat side. It's just
7 powerboat, 1 to 500.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: If I could ask --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Tom.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: The Marine Patrol
11 doesn't use sailboats. Are you counting their
12 six slips?
13 MS. MEEKER: No. We would keep those
14 separate, because we see --
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Public interest.
16 MS. MEEKER: -- the public nature of the
17 six marine vessels.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So no matter what you
19 do, you're going to be at least six more slips
20 than we normally would allow on manatee
21 protection because of law enforcement.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: So -- so are you saying
23 there can be nine motorboat slips that would
24 keep it in the Manatee Protection Plan, that
25 that could be approved. Motorboat slips.
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1 MS. MEEKER: If we address the public
2 necessity.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. If you address
4 the public necessity.
5 So that means that the 25 hourly rentals
6 could never be for motor boats.
7 MR. MATTHEWS: Nine could.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Nine --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, at any given
10 time --
11 MS. MEEKER: Again, you're -- you're
12 talking about the Manatee Protection Plan, and
13 I would feel more comfortable if Dade County
14 DERM or the Commission addressed those.
15 But that was --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: We've been so strong on
17 these Manatee Protection Plans. Really until
18 they can say it's compliant with Manatee
19 Protection Plan, and we have a new plan here --
20 sorry, there are eleven powerboat slips --
21 you -- you think there need to be nine to
22 comply.
23 But then there are -- how many --
24 25 short-term rentals that could be motorboats.
25 MR. MATTHEWS: It's an overarching. The
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1 nine would be an absolute. So if you allowed
2 25 short-term, you'd have to have sixteen of
3 those be sail.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: But if -- if you can
5 only have nine, then it seems like anything
6 over that -- anything over that for the
7 motorboats would be in violation.
8 Help me.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: It will.
10 MR. MATTHEWS: The Plan only speaks to
11 motorboats. I mean, the whole Manatee
12 Protection Plan by Dade County is silent.
13 When it speaks of these requirements, it's
14 one slip per 500 linear feet of shoreline for
15 motorboats. So it does not prohibit a
16 short-term sailboat occupancy.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: No, I'm not talking
18 about sailboats. But, in other words, you
19 could have nine motorboats, powerboats --
20 MR. MATTHEWS: Yes, ma'am.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- but none of the
22 temporary, short-term, could be used by
23 powerboats, because anything over nine --
24 zero powerboat slips -- anything over nine
25 would be in violation.
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1 So in your rentals, even your hourly, which
2 I -- is -- I mean --
3 MR. MATTHEWS: Once --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: I'm trying --
5 MR. MATTHEWS: -- once time --
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- to get there with
7 you. But I'm -- I'm not clear.
8 MR. MATTHEWS: And I appreciate it.
9 If nine powerboat slips come in to have
10 lunch --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: No, no. You have your
12 nine dedicated boat slips in this --
13 MR. MATTHEWS: Yes.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- new proposals --
15 MR. MATTHEWS: And -- and if they're occ--
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: You had eleven. You had
17 eleven.
18 MR. MATTHEWS: And if they're --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
20 MR. MATTHEWS: -- occupied by
21 nine motorboats, then you can't have any more
22 motorboats stored at the location.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right.
24 And how are you going to enforce that? I
25 mean, to me -- I think --
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1 MR. MATTHEWS: There's the --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- it seems like you're
3 caught.
4 You're caught between commercial and what
5 you're trying to do that doesn't work, unless
6 you bring in the City of Miami-Dade.
7 But then you're also trying to apply
8 residential standards. But -- but they're not
9 wo-- it doesn't seem like it's working.
10 I just don't see how you're going to get
11 there. I'm hav-- and follow the law.
12 I mean, I -- I'd love to help you out, but
13 it's -- I'm not getting how it's -- I don't
14 understand how it follows the law.
15 MR. MATTHEWS: It's clearly a multiuse --
16 multifaceted facility. But these are absolute.
17 Whatever motorboat prohibition number you
18 arrive at, whether it's nine or eleven, we --
19 we could not introduce any more than that
20 motorboat slips at the location.
21 So if someone wanted to come to have lunch,
22 and they weren't in a sailboat, we'd have to
23 turn them away.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: That doesn't sound like
25 it's helping economic development.
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1 MR. MATTHEWS: Well, I agree with you.
2 That's why our original proposal was
3 46 motorboat slips.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Drop your anchor.
5 MR. MATTHEWS: But -- but, again, you -- as
6 you achieve suppliance with one criteria, you
7 bump up against another.
8 The lowest common denominator, in our
9 opinion, is the 500 linear foot of shoreline
10 limitation. And we maintain there's 5500 total
11 linear feet of shoreline, and that's how we
12 arrived at the eleven motorboat slip limits.
13 That's what's driving the lowest common
14 denominator. And I suggest to you, in all
15 conversations I've had, everybody agrees that,
16 yeah, that --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
19 Governor.
20 This is reminding me of my City Commission
21 days when I was Mayor of the City of Sunrise,
22 we'd -- and we'd --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: It wasn't that bad.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- go to
25 2:00 o'clock in the morning.
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1 The -- what we seem to have before us,
2 Governor, and -- and Cabinet members, seems to
3 be an entirely different project than was here
4 yesterday.
5 I would suggest that we deny this -- that
6 we -- that we go with staff direction, and let
7 them -- let them reapply with the new plan.
8 And I make that as a motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
12 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Commissioner.
14 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Could I ask the
15 Sergeant one question before we vote?
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
17 Sergeant, come on up.
18 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thank you.
19 I'm curious. Do you think there's a
20 significant drug problem and importation of
21 drugs into the Miami River?
22 MR. SERIG: There definitely is, sir.
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: I would have thought
24 so.
25 Do you think that having a facility at the
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1 mouth of the river would be a significant
2 factor in slowing down the importation of drugs
3 to our young people?
4 MR. SERIG: Not only do I think that, a
5 grand jury thinks that. I forget when that
6 grand jury -- but it was several years ago.
7 The Miami River Commission thinks that, the
8 citizens along the Miami River think that.
9 COMMISSIONER CRIST: And do you think this
10 is the best location or proposal that you have
11 seen in your -- I think you said 28 years, to
12 be able to address this issue, and now it's
13 available to you if we permit it?
14 MR. SERIG: Yes, sir. I do.
15 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Thank you, Governor.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I have a --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I find
18 that's --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- question.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Commissioner.
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Where you park the
22 boats to me doesn't make a whole lot of
23 difference on what interdiction you're doing.
24 Interdiction is done either when the boat that
25 you're -- that you're suspicious of docks, and
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1 you board that boat.
2 Very seldom do you stop a boat in the
3 Miami River; is that correct?
4 MR. SERIG: What type of boat?
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: On a -- on a drug
6 suspicion.
7 Do -- do y'all pull them over on a drug
8 suspicion coming in the --
9 MR. SERIG: We have --
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- Miami River?
11 MR. SERIG: -- operations where we work
12 right off the Miami River.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. You are --
14 they're moving up the river, and you stop them
15 on their way up the river.
16 MR. SERIG: Either that, or we follow them
17 if they're larger vessels --
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
19 MR. SERIG: -- you follow them toward --
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You follow them and
21 they dock.
22 MR. SERIG: Correct.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And then you have
24 somebody meet you on the land, and inspect the
25 vehicle -- the boat.
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1 So where your boat dock is, whether it's
2 over at Bayside, or whether it's here, I mean,
3 you're 5 minutes difference, aren't you?
4 MR. SERIG: Well, not necessarily
5 5 minutes. But the fact that if your -- if
6 your office is in one location, you have to go
7 to a boat, then you have down time getting back
8 and forth to it.
9 But I think the most important question
10 here is that the -- the presence of a -- of
11 a -- of a facility there, we could -- there's
12 no law enforcement -- Customs, Coast Guard, no
13 one sees those boats going up the Miami River.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, could we --
15 MR. SERIG: Nobody sees the -- the
16 different vessels that are coming from Haiti
17 and is watching every one of those --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, wait a second. Now,
19 we're stopping them now.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: A quarter mile from
21 the entrance of the river is -- is a Customs
22 building.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're requiring them to
24 stop.
25 MR. SERIG: Right.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're -- we're watching
2 them.
3 MR. SERIG: Excuse me?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, the -- the
5 Operation Riverwalk now has changed that --
6 MR. SERIG: It has.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- what you just said.
8 MR. SERIG: It has. But that's -- that's
9 a -- that's a plan that I hope is going to
10 continue. I don't --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: It will.
12 MR. SERIG: -- I hope it is.
13 But I still say that having an observation
14 area and a facility there is going to benefit
15 the Miami River, and all of the other entities
16 that I've dealt with in the eight years that I
17 have said that, and they've wanted that.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So --
19 MR. SERIG: They want a -- a permanent
20 uniform presence on the Miami River.
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: So you're telling me
22 that that little building, that police office,
23 is going to have somebody sitting in there
24 looking out the window, watching every boat
25 come up the river.
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1 Is that what you're telling me?
2 MR. SERIG: I'm telling you that it's going
3 to be a lot better than it is now, because
4 there's nobody doing it now. I mean, Customs
5 is in and out of their office.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any -- any other questions?
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes.
8 Governor, one thing.
9 I -- I spent a little time in a past life
10 dealing with drug smugglers, dealing with my
11 own Marine Patrol in a lot of other ways, and
12 I -- I certainly hope you're not saying,
13 Sergeant, that by parking a couple boats or
14 having an observation tower is going to stop
15 the drug problem in Miami.
16 MR. SERIG: No. I think it's -- it can
17 only help it.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I
19 don't know how much it can help. But I -- I
20 agree with Commissioner Gallagher that you
21 should put your boats, you should put your
22 undercover officers, you should actually have
23 somebody sit on a wall -- have somebody with a
24 cane pole sitting on a -- on a -- on a sea wall
25 or something fishing.
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1 I mean, to say that -- that this Cabinet
2 should vote in favor of this issue solely
3 because you think it will help. I mean, I -- I
4 just think that -- that just -- I mean, I -- I
5 don't want to -- I'm not going to say what I
6 want to say.
7 But I've been in that business, and what
8 you're saying is not -- is not accurate.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments?
10 Sergeant, we appreciate you being here. We
11 really do.
12 MR. SERIG: Thank you.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
14 second to deny the request.
15 Any other comments, questions?
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That -- that included
17 allowing them to come back with --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- a new deal.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah. Absolutely.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that a -- is that --
22 does that -- that needs to be part of the --
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yes, sir.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That was part of it.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Can I find out a
2 time frame we're talking about, how much of a
3 delay are we putting in this thing, to have it
4 come back by denying it?
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That'd be up to them.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- what --
7 how long's the process?
8 If they reapply --
9 Mr. Struhs, if they reapply, what's the
10 time frame of the process?
11 MR. STRUHS: Given -- given our record on
12 this in the past, I'm not too optimistic, sir.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, neither am I.
14 MR. STRUHS: I -- I think a lot of it
15 depends on -- on -- on what the applicant
16 proposes.
17 And maybe Mr. Matthews can speak to that.
18 MR. MATTHEWS: I -- I think a denial adds
19 at a minimum six months to -- to reintroducing
20 the issue and revising the proposal.
21 I -- I'd ask you in the storied history to
22 do a deferral so that we don't have to start
23 from scratch.
24 Clearly we haven't articulated the -- the
25 issue very well here, and -- and rather than
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1 have a denial, which does force us to go back
2 to the Federal agencies, and start all of the
3 dual processes all over again, I'd urge a
4 deferral to allow us to come for one last
5 chance at -- at approval.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Can --
7 MR. STRUHS: There -- there -- I'm --
8 I'm sorry.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just wanted to ask one
10 question.
11 This is -- this is what I'm having the hard
12 time with.
13 The Manatee Protection Plan, it means that
14 you can only have nine the first stage. That
15 means in your temporary as well.
16 In the second stage, it means that you have
17 to meet the public necessity test, and, (a), we
18 have to -- and the -- the extreme hardship.
19 We have to decide how important that
20 observation tower is, and that office right
21 there at the river, what it's really going to
22 mean in terms of public necessity, how
23 important it is to drug interdiction.
24 And -- and if it is that important, is that
25 the only location, because along with that
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1 location is your partnership that you're
2 binding the marina.
3 I'm in favor of marinas, but I'm just -- I
4 really don't -- it's an aquatic preserve, so
5 there's a -- a strong legal standard that we
6 have to match.
7 MR. MATTHEWS: And my only answer is that
8 it is the only location to have a turnkey
9 operation where the private party is going to
10 provide the resources to make it immediate and
11 operational.
12 Anything else is going to take you many
13 years, I suspect, to find the right property
14 ownership and the right contribution to offset
15 the budget deficiencies that -- that the City
16 would otherwise have to incur, which this
17 applicant has proposed to incur.
18 MR. STRUHS: I wanted the opportunity to --
19 to -- to respond to General Milligan's
20 question, which was an assessment of the time
21 that would be required.
22 I hesitate to -- to give you a specific
23 answer because it is something that's done at
24 multiple levels of government.
25 And one of the questions I think we need to
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1 put to the applicant is, are there -- the
2 status of their applications with -- with the
3 County and -- and the city and the local
4 governments, because I'm not sure those --
5 those are in place.
6 MR. MATTHEWS: We have every approval
7 required, except for a Type I construction
8 approval, which Dade County would have to
9 issue.
10 So there is a subsequent permit we would
11 need if you would -- did approve this project
12 from Dade County.
13 MR. STRUHS: But -- but there's -- and
14 there's an --
15 MR. MATTHEWS: The Corps suspended the
16 permit because 401 water quality certification
17 is necessary. The only suspension --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's stay focused --
19 MR. MATTHEWS: -- that you have enacted --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on the issue at hand.
21 MR. MATTHEWS: I mean, the Corps has
22 expressed its intention to issue this permit.
23 They simply need as a prerequisite the
24 underlying ERP --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's --
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1 MR. MATTHEWS: -- issue.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: To answer your question, I
3 think the answer was, it'd take a minimum of
4 six months.
5 That's the answer to your question.
6 MR. MATTHEWS: Sorry.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: One other quick
8 question.
9 The marina that's across the way, is that a
10 commercial marina, or a residential marina?
11 MR. MATTHEWS: It's a commercial marina
12 before Ambassadors Hotels I'm told.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Right.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yep.
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It's sitting right
16 there -- it's formed by -- that's not on the
17 drawing, but it's there.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, there is a -- is
19 there a willingness to defer this, or -- we
20 have a motion on the floor --
21 MR. STRUHS: I think the motion to --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to deny.
23 MR. STRUHS: -- the motion was to deny.
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: And allow them to
25 reapply.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. All in favor of
2 the motion to deny, say aye.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Aye.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Aye.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
7 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Aye.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three? Three nos?
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: (Nodding of head.)
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who said no?
11 COMMISSIONER CRIST: The General and I
12 said --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two nos. Okay.
14 Didn't hear you.
15 Which way were you?
16 COMMISSIONER RHODES: Positive.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. It's denied.
18 MR. STRUHS: Item 3, we're asking --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw.
20 MR. STRUHS: -- to withdraw.
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to withdraw 3.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
24 second.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Item 4, we're requesting it to
2 be deferred.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's deferred.
8 MR. STRUHS: Item 5, we're recommending --
9 recommending approval.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve.
11 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. STRUHS: Item 6, we're recommending
16 approval.
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve.
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. STRUHS: Item 7, we're recommending an
22 approval.
23 And I'd like to pause for a moment, if I
24 could on this, and note that we have some folks
25 who traveled a great distance to be here this
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1 morning for this historic item.
2 And apparently I've misplaced their names.
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's a very
4 important project and --
5 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
6 MR. STRUHS: Eva, could you help me out
7 with this, please?
8 There were some folks that --
9 There -- there were some folks who worked
10 very hard on this. And -- and for the record,
11 we wanted to -- to -- to note their presence.
12 MS. ARMSTRONG: Right.
13 It is Betsy Donley with The Nature
14 Conservancy. She negotiated the deal for us.
15 It's a great deal.
16 And we have our Federal partners from the
17 U.S. Fish and -- from the U.S. Forest Service
18 which are Chris Zajicek, if you would stand,
19 please; and the two forest managers for Osceola
20 National Forest, and the Okefenokee.
21 And we thank you.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve.
24 MR. STRUHS: Thank you, Eva.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're also happy to have
4 Rayonier as a corporate citizen of Florida.
5 Moved their corporate headquarters from
6 Connecticut to Jacksonville.
7 I'm for that, too.
8 MR. STRUHS: Item 8, we're recommending
9 confirmation of the previous approval, and to
10 proceed with the closing of the exchange of
11 property with Future Farmers of America.
12 A Florida resident from Brevard County,
13 Dr. Broussard, is in attendance, and would like
14 to speak to this item.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is the item that we
16 had in --
17 MR. STRUHS: Tampa.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Tampa, right?
19 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Tampa.
20 MR. STRUHS: Right.
21 Yes, sir.
22 DR. BROUSSARD: Governor, members of the
23 Cabinet. Thank you.
24 Excuse me.
25 I spoke to you about this issue a month
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1 ago.
2 After a personal on-site visit; and
3 speaking with the State biologists involved in
4 the exchange; and having a report from the
5 Audubon biologist, Yvonne Babbs, I now agree
6 that this exchange --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we keep it down a
8 little bit?
9 Thank you.
10 DR. BROUSSARD: I now agree that this
11 exchange produces a -- a net environmental
12 gain, and I withdraw my objections with the
13 following recommendations:
14 The twelve-and-a-half acres traded to the
15 FAA are developed in a strict
16 environmentally-sensitive manner.
17 For example, care should be taken to avoid
18 significant alteration to the drainage pattern
19 around the cutthroat seeps that are present on
20 the land; and also protect the seasonal ponds;
21 and as much as native plant life as possible
22 should be preserved.
23 If care is taken in development and
24 management, nature trails on the property would
25 be a significant plus for the guests that
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1 appear there.
2 I think very careful implementation of any
3 wastewater management is very important to
4 protect the tub lakes that are nearby. These
5 are crystal clear, beautiful, small lakes. And
6 wastewater management is very important in
7 protecting those.
8 Steps should be taken through statute or
9 regulation change to avoid trivializing the
10 language no longer needed for conservation,
11 which in this case, certainly does not apply.
12 I'm told by Eva Armstrong that there's
13 already underway something to try to correct
14 this problem.
15 When the State is planning a significant
16 action affecting property, the acquisition of
17 which involved private -- a private benefactor,
18 it'd be a good idea, I think, if that
19 benefactor were involved in the decision making
20 early on, rather than just at the very last
21 second.
22 So with that, I -- I withdraw my objection,
23 and I appreciate very much your attention, your
24 interest --
25 (Commissioner Crist entered the room.)
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1 DR. BROUSSARD: -- and your help.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate your involvement
3 in this.
4 Secretary Struhs, the -- the staff
5 recommendation includes the -- I mean, are
6 you -- we've complied with all of those
7 suggestions.
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
9 And -- and Dr. Broussard deserves an
10 enormous amount of gratitude from all
11 Floridians for making a substantial financial
12 commitment of his own resources to this larger
13 acquisition in exchange for property.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
15 Is there a motion?
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
18 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor, I just wanted
22 to say one thing on Item 7.
23 We just went through and approved it really
24 quickly. But it's really an exciting project.
25 I want to commend DEP, because this is going to
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1 actually connect the Okefenokee National
2 Wildlife Refuge, with the Osceola National
3 Forest.
4 It's -- it's real exciting. It's going to
5 be about -- it's going to be larger than the
6 size of Rhode Island. All of that habitat
7 together for black bears, and all the others.
8 So I know we approve these things, I know
9 it's -- we all support it. But I just wanted
10 to comment it, I think it's exciting.
11 Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
13 MR. STRUHS: Thank you for that.
14 Too often we get focused on the details,
15 and fail to step back and look at the big
16 successes, and this is one.
17 The last item, for our agenda anyway, is
18 Item Number 9. And it's a fairly complicated
19 issue.
20 There is no decision that needs to be made
21 today. It's simply a status report on our
22 efforts to provide an attractive and
23 predictable business climate for the
24 fiber optic cable industry, which, as you know,
25 is very eager to expand its presence here in
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1 Florida.
2 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
3 MR. STRUHS: As a banking, business, and
4 information hub of the Caribbean and
5 Latin American rim, southeast Florida has
6 emerged as a highly desirable area for cable
7 expansions.
8 And while we are, as your staff, developing
9 recommendations for all of Florida's coastal
10 waters, the interest today is all centered on
11 the southeast coast.
12 So today's discussion is going to focus on
13 state waters off of Dade, Broward, Palm Beach,
14 and Martin Counties.
15 Our goal is simply to make it as simple and
16 inexpensive and as predictable as possible for
17 the private fiber optic cable companies to gain
18 easy access to this market by providing them
19 direct access through the public's offshore
20 water resources.
21 There are two key things that we can do to
22 make this happen. The first is to provide this
23 industry guaranteed access for fiber optic
24 cables through these public waters.
25 And when we talk about guaranteed, we mean
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1 guaranteed with speed and certainty, free from
2 any kind of arbitrary or unpredictable
3 bureaucratic delays.
4 It is true that we have an obligation to
5 balance competing uses for these public waters,
6 including commercial and recreational fishing,
7 diving, tourism, beach renourishment, shipping,
8 military installations.
9 But our recommendation to you is that we
10 must accommodate an expanded cable access
11 alongside these other existing interests.
12 Just as we have guaranteed certain coastal
13 areas for beach renourishment, or diving,
14 shipping, and military uses, we must offer, we
15 believe, the same protected access for
16 expanding the cable industry into Florida.
17 As you know, this is challenging, because
18 North America's only coral reef is precisely in
19 the same area that the cable industry is most
20 eager to --
21 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
22 MR. STRUHS: -- locate.
23 Having said that, we have become convinced
24 that we can work under, over, and around the
25 reefs. And I'd like to touch on this very
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1 briefly.
2 When we talk about going under the reefs,
3 through directional drilling, under some reefs,
4 environmental damage can be avoided.
5 And, in fact, drilling technology is
6 advancing. And we may some day soon see the
7 possibility of making landfall with these
8 cables, without any environmental harm
9 whatsoever to the reef system.
10 If we keep that in mind, I think our vision
11 for the future is a vision where there is no
12 regulation, and no fees at all, because they
13 can simply be bypassed by going underneath.
14 Until that becomes completely reliable and
15 possible, however, we have to go over the reefs
16 or around the reefs.
17 As we talked about going over the reefs,
18 it's important to make sure we're locating new
19 cables over reefs where disturbances have,
20 indeed, already occurred by previous
21 installations.
22 And, finally, the best of all options,
23 going around them, wherever possible, taking
24 advantage of natural openings in the reef
25 system, and locating them where reefs are very
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1 narrow, or of a lower quality.
2 With this as our guide, we set out the
3 establishment and proposal to you of
4 establishing three areas in which we can
5 provide guaranteed access.
6 We are not -- and this is important -- we
7 are not saying that these are the only areas to
8 which new cables will ever be allowed.
9 Any applicant can, at any time, petition
10 the Cabinet for any easement anywhere. But
11 these would be three areas in which we can
12 guarantee that other interests will not prevent
13 or unnecessarily delay new cable installations,
14 and we can, indeed, be protective of the
15 coral reef.
16 The first and best location is at the
17 Palm Beach/Martin County line. Remarkably, the
18 coral habitat abruptly ends, coincidental with
19 this county line.
20 The location where the water begins to cool
21 and the hard bottoms give way to sof-- softer,
22 sandy bottoms, is precisely where that county
23 line happens to be.
24 With the use of improving repeater
25 technology, this site provides very
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1 environmentally-friendly access to the
2 southeast coast, while causing no damage to --
3 to the reef.
4 The second best location is an area from
5 Atlantic Avenue in Delray Beach, going south
6 through Boca Raton. This area has a natural
7 opening in the reef system, and the reef
8 systems there that do exist are very narrow.
9 There are also ten permitted, and four
10 existing cables already in this area.
11 The third best location is near West Palm
12 Beach. While the reefs here are a bit more
13 extensive than the previous one, the coral
14 quality is diminished, and there are again
15 seven existing cables already there.
16 So to recap this point, the first thing we
17 can do to provide a guaranteed, no hassle
18 access point to this very new and important
19 market, is to create these three locations.
20 The second thing we have to focus on is
21 getting the fee structure right. And getting
22 the fees right means first realizing that the
23 fees are not about the money. At least not as
24 it relates to generating revenue for the State
25 of Florida.
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1 Our belief is that Florida's economy, and
2 the State's revenues are far better served over
3 the long run by offering inexpensive access
4 that encourages this industry to grow.
5 The reason we charge fees, and the reason
6 we need an accurate fee structure, is for two
7 reasons.
8 First, it's an acknowledgment that these
9 are, in fact, the public's waters. And while
10 we are pleased to provide these easements, make
11 them available to the private companies for
12 their profit, we are not in any way
13 transferring them any permanent property
14 rights.
15 That's one of the reasons we'd like to have
16 some nominal or token fee.
17 There is a good argument that there is an
18 advantage to an annual token rent, as opposed
19 to a one-time lump sum, and it sort of drives
20 this point home.
21 But, again, the fee could theoretically be
22 a dollar. But as long as it is there as a
23 token to serve -- make it clear that we're not
24 transferring a property right on a permanent
25 basis, that's the reason for that fee.
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1 The second reason to get a fee structure
2 right is to create market oriented price
3 signals. The key is to establish enough of a
4 price differential to encourage fiber optic
5 development in these preferred access areas,
6 and not to compete in other areas with other
7 environmental and in other economic interests
8 along the coast.
9 If we can establish a very nominal rent in
10 the preferred access areas, and a substantially
11 larger fee for other alignments, the State
12 continues to keep all options available to the
13 industry, but gets the incentives correct to
14 focus in these predetermined areas.
15 Determining what the size of that
16 differential is, and the fee, is not an
17 arbitrary process, and it's not one that is
18 based on something that sounds fair, but rather
19 needs to be done on good, solid, economic
20 analysis to determine what level of costs would
21 make a material effect on their decision making
22 to keep -- in preferred locating these sites in
23 the predetermined areas.
24 This is going to obviously require an
25 economic understanding of the value of the
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1 asset that's being cited, and we're going to
2 have to clearly work closely with the industry
3 on this.
4 You may reca-- may recall that back in
5 July, the industry indicated that they
6 anticipated making no objections to any fees,
7 as long as they are competitively neutral, and
8 everybody is treated in an evenhanded manner.
9 So allow me to recap.
10 We would propose using nominal rents, and a
11 guaranteed, no hassle access points that are
12 protected for the fiber optic industry; and at
13 the same time keep all other sites optionals
14 open, but to set the bar high enough to
15 minimize the number of excursions from these
16 predetermined areas.
17 We believe there are a number of benefits
18 that derive from this strategy. The first is
19 it keeps fees low. And this is good for
20 consumers, it's good for our economy.
21 It promotes Florida as being IT friendly;
22 it uses a market oriented approach to
23 regulation, rather than mandates; it follows
24 the advice of IT Florida's report to the
25 Legislature by using regulation that is the
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1 least intrusive possible; it establishes
2 Florida as the easiest state in America in
3 which a new cable landing can occur; and it
4 will obviously adequately protect the larger
5 public interest, particularly the important
6 environmental resources in this area.
7 So thank you for your indulgence in
8 allowing me to frame the question.
9 We have a variety of individuals who want
10 to speak on the status of our work in this
11 area, some for, and some against.
12 I think we'll invite the three members who
13 are here from the industry to go first:
14 Mr. Paul Shorb, Lin Gentemann, and
15 Michael Tammaro.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Could I ask a
17 question before you --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, please.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- get there.
20 It looks like when a -- some fiber optic
21 cable was laid down in the Virgin Islands to
22 Saint Croix, AT&T was putting it in, and they
23 got a 1.8 million dollar fine -- they settled
24 the lawsuit basically because they had made
25 environmental damage two ways, one in drilling
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1 under, I guess they released a lot of
2 lubricants into the water --
3 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- and the part that
5 they drilled out, obviously, was sediment that
6 started to go across the coral, and -- and
7 killed some conch, et cetera.
8 Are -- are we -- have a process to see to
9 it that these things don't happen on our shore?
10 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
11 And the process, rather than taking a
12 conventional regulatory approach, would instead
13 get in front of the problem, identify those
14 areas that provide them a guaranteed low cost,
15 no hassle access points to our coast in the
16 areas in which the coral resources either don't
17 exist, or are -- are minimal existence, or have
18 already been disturbed.
19 We think that that way, we create this
20 appropriate balance. We don't want to put
21 ourselves in the position where we say, no,
22 never, to any possible proposal that might come
23 before the Cabinet in the future.
24 But if we get the economic signals right by
25 creating the no hassle, low cost alternative in
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1 the area where the resources can easily be
2 protected, or minimally affected, and then
3 create a high enough bar to discourage the
4 location of these resources in -- in other
5 resource rich areas, that we can avoid that
6 kind of -- of -- of damage.
7 Now, it -- nothing is risk free --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: But either way, if
9 you're going to be drilling, you're going to
10 have -- there -- there's lubricants used for
11 the drilling, and those kind of protections
12 I'm --
13 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- is what I'm sort
15 of concerned about.
16 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
17 Obviously nothing is risk free, but that we
18 would deal with through the normal regulatory
19 process in terms of proposing --
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Permitting and --
21 MR. STRUHS: -- certain limits for
22 behavior.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- environmental
24 watching, et cetera.
25 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
3 MR. STRUHS: And -- and we -- and we do --
4 I mean, all things being equal, while there are
5 some -- some -- some examples -- the one from
6 the Virgin Island being probably the most
7 recent, where there have been problems, there
8 have been -- damage has occurred, we do,
9 in fact, like the idea of the directional
10 drilling technology, because it allows us more
11 opportunities in the future to make these
12 landfalls, and -- and avoid the -- the coral
13 resources.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's have the speakers.
15 We got the 3-minute rule here?
16 MR. BOSCAN: Three minute.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Being from the private
18 sector, I'm sure you can efficiently make your
19 comments in 3 minutes.
20 MR. SHORB: Thank you. I will try.
21 Good morning, Governor, Honorable members
22 of the Board of Trustees. My name is
23 Paul Shorb. I work for AT&T.
24 I also am here speaking on behalf of the
25 trade association that we belong to, the
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1 North American Submarine Cable Association.
2 I'm going to, in my 3 minutes, speak to the
3 geographic restrictions element of the
4 proposal, and Lin Gentemann from 360 will speak
5 to the fee issue.
6 The short presentation, we made ten slides.
7 For those audience who didn't get the handout,
8 you can see it on the wall.
9 Of course, we welcome your questions
10 before -- I mean, throughout or afterwards.
11 The proposal that was described just now
12 is, of course, entirely different from what is
13 the agenda item. And I would say that we
14 definitely appreciate the -- the -- the
15 intention that we heard expressed, to try to
16 make -- that provides sure access and speedy
17 access.
18 However, our concern remains that -- well,
19 the devil is in the details, in short. And our
20 concern remains that the State will -- may not
21 be able to fully deliver on that promise, using
22 a corridor idea.
23 One reason, of course, is because you've
24 got two layers of approval necessary. There's
25 the State approval, and the local government
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1 needs to approve these projects.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: What does the local
3 government have to do, what part?
4 MR. SHORB: Typically we need a permit from
5 any of the counties, Broward County,
6 Palm Beach --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: When you bring it
8 on-line -- I mean, bring it on land?
9 MR. SHORB: Correct. Correct.
10 And there's essentially overlapping
11 jurisdiction, which we deal with on a
12 project-by-project basis.
13 And in addition, the -- in addition to the
14 County for the upland construction --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: But you'd have that with us
16 anyway. I'm -- I'm --
17 MR. SHORB: Excuse me?
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I'm missing something.
19 You'd have that for us anyway. You have
20 to --
21 MR. SHORB: That's correct. That's --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: So there's no --
23 MR. SHORB: -- correct.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- no change there.
25 MR. SHORB: Correct.
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1 The -- the change is to restrict us to
2 corridors, and then say, guaranteed access.
3 I'm not sure that it would be possible to
4 guarantee access, because what if the County
5 wants to be very strict, or the City wants to
6 be very strict, or take advantage of a --
7 for example, a City's monopoly position in
8 terms of pricing.
9 The upland owners -- there's just a lot --
10 still a lot of hurdles we would have to get
11 over, and -- from our point of view, and I
12 think the point of view of many municipalities,
13 some who -- who want to preserve their freedom
14 of choice, some municipalities would like to
15 have cables land. Some would not.
16 You know, there are -- you know, except for
17 the kind of zoning they want or whatever.
18 So that's one major problem we still see
19 with the corridor idea, even though I
20 appreciate that it's intended to be more,
21 you know, industry-friendly than the earlier
22 version of this idea.
23 So I want to address basically the -- the
24 environmental issues and the geographic
25 problems, and then we'll address the fees.
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1 The main concern we have of the corridor
2 idea, apart from what I just expressed, is that
3 we still just don't see the need for it in
4 terms of protecting the environment.
5 We're not going to have the spider web of
6 hundreds of cables that some people thought
7 awhile ago. There's only eight or so cables
8 expected through 2009.
9 But the current --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Keep going.
11 MR. SHORB: The current regulatory
12 framework does work very well of protecting the
13 environment. There's best management
14 practices, which is specifically do this, do
15 that, which we've helped draft during the
16 permits.
17 There's a general requirement in the
18 permitting regime that you should do everything
19 to minimize and mitigate your impacts once
20 you've picked your landing point, all practical
21 means.
22 We've actually measured the impacts on the
23 coral, which I understand is like the driving
24 environmental consideration here in the -- in
25 the last four landing points that have been
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1 developed.
2 And --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You can have cable over
4 coral, and not have an impact?
5 MR. SHORB: No. There will be some impact.
6 But, for example, the TyCom project
7 developed in -- in Boca Raton, because,
8 you know, adjusting to changing times, they
9 look for a narrow point in -- in the -- narrow
10 pinch in the reef, they crossed not very much
11 reef.
12 And these reefs, remember, are not solid
13 coral. They're, like, scattered, you know,
14 1 percent coral coverage, more or less.
15 So they actually have measured, as
16 required, by the DEP permit all the -- the
17 points to the square inch of where coral was
18 touched, permanently, or scraped, or shadowed,
19 and it's all distilled down in a formula, which
20 is required --
21 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
22 room.)
23 MR. SHORB: -- because, based on that
24 formula, we then provide artificial reefs as
25 mitigation for that small impact where the Navy
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1 sub ran aground -- actually overcompensate.
2 So, for example, three -- a square 3 inches
3 on a side would embrace all of the coral
4 injured by the TyCom projects.
5 I mean, that's how much coral was touched
6 or scraped or shaded with some discount for the
7 shading, which is, you know, the way to do it.
8 So that's a very small impact.
9 So there just isn't the environmental need.
10 You multiply that times a relatively small
11 number of cables that we don't see to combine
12 the number of corridors.
13 There will -- there are still -- as I guess
14 I've expressed the main concern we have with
15 the corridors, which, what if the localities
16 for the corridor herds us to -- don't --
17 you know, (a), don't want us, go about their
18 own perspective on things; or, (b), the upland
19 owners want to take advantage in terms of
20 monopoly pricing.
21 It's -- it's -- to us, it's like a zoning
22 requirement that all shops in a town shall be
23 placed in the --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's not the proposal
25 though. The proposal is simply saying that
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1 there should be a differential between where
2 these corridors that have been proven out to
3 be --
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Safe.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- safe for reefs --
6 MR. SHORB: Right.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- on our land, and other
8 places where you had every right to apply for
9 as well.
10 MR. SHORB: No. You're right. You're
11 right. I accept that correction.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
13 MR. SHORB: You're right.
14 But as I understand it, the pricing would
15 be set, and the fees would not -- there's no
16 specific steepervoles as I understand the
17 paperwork now.
18 But they would try to set it high enough --
19 that the pain threshold be high enough,
20 whatever that may be, to push you there. So
21 it's --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
23 MR. SHORB: Right.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: And the --
25 MR. SHORB: And our concern is, we don't
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1 see the need for it. And it would cause some
2 pain.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
4 MR. SHORB: So, therefore, we don't think
5 it is consistent really with the -- the spirit
6 and -- and the specific recommendation that
7 IT Florida reports. We say, for example,
8 regulation by the least intrusive means.
9 From our point of view, the least intrusive
10 means would be the kind of regulations that are
11 on the books now. Let us pick the landing
12 point if you want to zone out some areas that,
13 you know, you should never land cables, because
14 the -- you know, the City plans to excavate
15 sand for beach renourishment, or something like
16 that. You could zone out certain areas, as
17 long as they're not countywide in size.
18 Say that when you land, you should do
19 everything you can to minimize your impacts by
20 squeezing your cables as close together,
21 for example, say if you did it at Hollywood.
22 There we've got a public easement for
23 nine cables, five have been installed.
24 And partly in response to the environmental
25 concerns expressed by one of the groups in this
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1 area, we said, okay, we'll squeeze them
2 together as close as we can there. So that's a
3 corridor as we cross the reef.
4 And -- so those kind of things can be done,
5 and we think will minimize the environmental
6 impacts appropriately, and that would, to us,
7 be the least intrusive means.
8 Next slide.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we -- can we -- are you
10 about finished?
11 MR. SHORB: That's -- yes. Thank you.
12 So bas-- our bottom line is, we still would
13 prefer no government mandated corridors. I
14 understand, as you point out, that these are
15 not strictly speaking mandated, there are --
16 would be strongly encouraged, a little bit of
17 arm twist to the fee.
18 We would still prefer not to have that,
19 because we don't see the need. It will add
20 costs and burdens, and it's contrary to
21 Florida's policy, as I understand it, wanting
22 to present itself as IT-friendly. You know, in
23 a coast without international cables landing on
24 it seems like it doesn't -- some-- the picture
25 doesn't set.
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1 But, if I may, I'll turn it over to Lin to
2 address the fee issue.
3 But -- oh.
4 And --
5 Thank you. A reminder.
6 Commissioner -- Treasurer Gallagher, if I
7 may respond to the -- the AT&T and the
8 Virgin Islands matter, because I was involved
9 with that.
10 The good news is that even in that project,
11 which was -- had a very large drilling mud
12 release, even in that case, the mud did not get
13 on any hard bottom of coral, because at least
14 the emergence point was in a sandy bottom area
15 between reefs, which is how these projects are
16 typically planned.
17 So even if a mistake like that happens,
18 typically the mud doesn't land on coral. So
19 far as I know, it has never happened that
20 I've -- an accidental mud release has ended up
21 on coral.
22 And we do know how to keep that from
23 happening again.
24 Thank you very much.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 MS. GENTEMANN: Thanks, Paul.
2 Lin Gentemann with 360 Networks, Inc.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry?
4 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Pardon me?
5 MS. GENTEMANN: Lin Gentemann with
6 360 Networks, Inc.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 MS. GENTEMANN: So I'm going to handle the
9 fee issue.
10 What's a reasonable fee?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you speak up? I'm --
12 MS. GENTEMANN: Sure.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: You need to get the
14 microphone closer --
15 MS. GENTEMANN: Sorry.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- to you.
17 MS. GENTEMANN: I'll speak up.
18 So what's a reasonable fee?
19 Understandably, the DEP wanted to canvass
20 what other jurisdictions were doing in order to
21 establish its fee recommendation. It retained
22 the services of DMG-MAXIMUS to survey the
23 market and render its findings.
24 DMG found that of the four states -- that
25 of the seven -- of the -- I guess about
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1 15 states were --
2 (Treasurer Gallagher exited the room.)
3 MS. GENTEMANN: -- actually polled.
4 The ones that replied, four states charged
5 an annual easement fee, seven states charged a
6 one-time easement fee. And there are four
7 states that actually do not charge an easement
8 fee.
9 I'd like to preface the discussion by
10 saying, of course, this is -- the easement fee
11 is just one of -- of several costs to us. We
12 do pay an application fee that covers the DEP's
13 costs.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: What is that -- what's the
15 application fee?
16 MR. STRUHS: $200.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 MS. GENTEMANN: Yes.
19 Okay. And we, in addition, pay several
20 million dollars in -- in costs to comply with
21 the best management practices that we have
22 worked with DEP to develop. And these measures
23 are designed to ensure minimal environmental
24 impact.
25 And I think we can all agree that they've
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1 been very successful to date.
2 Of the four states that charge an annual
3 easement fee, Maryland ranks the lowest at
4 45 cents per linear foot.
5 California, based on the DEP's comments in
6 today's agenda, come in at high -- the high
7 range of an average of 3 to $5 per linear foot.
8 This fee is based on a fair market
9 valuation approach --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: These are one-time fees?
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Annual.
12 MS. GENTEMANN: These are annual. Annual
13 fees.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 MS. GENTEMANN: Okay. The California fees
16 are based upon a fair market valuation approach
17 that is very complicated, time consuming, and
18 highly controversial.
19 My company, 360 Networks, faced the
20 prospect of a Calif-- this California fee in
21 terms of our trans-Pacific landing, and had to
22 make the economic decision to move our landing
23 north, because the cost was viewed as too
24 prohibitive.
25 I'm aware of another cable system that also
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1 moved its trans-Pacific U.S. landing north out
2 of California due to the high costs of
3 operating and doing business in California.
4 I need to note here as well that the DEP
5 proposed fees involve a -- an annual $5 per
6 linear foot fee. But that's when you're in the
7 corridor.
8 The fees jump up, based on DEP's high
9 estimate, to $50 per linear foot annually.
10 I wanted to note our company's experience,
11 and this other company's experience in Florida,
12 because I do think --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead.
14 MS. GENTEMANN: -- it -- it directly
15 illustrates the point that costs do drive
16 corporate behavior.
17 Of the seven states that impose one-time
18 easement fees, Texas clearly ranks the lowest
19 at 61 cents per linear foot. Interestingly,
20 this easement conveys a grant of an easement
21 that's up to 50 feet in width.
22 This points up -- and -- and the Florida
23 easement conveys a 10-foot width easement.
24 This points up the issue of how do you come
25 up with fair comparables?
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1 How do you do a true apples to apples
2 comparison that will make sense, and be fair to
3 both sides?
4 I think the New Jersey and the New York
5 fees -- I don't have New Jersey up there, but
6 I'm going to speak to it.
7 I think the New Jersey and New York fees
8 really underscore the point that you can't just
9 take a number and say this is a comparable.
10 You can't say, New York represents at fourteen
11 eighty-one a linear foot, the high end.
12 You need to look underneath the number, and
13 unfortunately you have to examine the
14 easement --
15 (Treasurer Gallagher entered the room.)
16 MS. GENTEMANN: -- elements to understand
17 whether it -- it constitutes a true comp.
18 The New York easement creates a 30-foot
19 width easement, and the owner of that easement
20 has the right to install an unlimited number of
21 cables.
22 Again, in the Florida --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many cables --
24 MS. GENTEMANN: -- situation --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- can you -- how many
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1 cables can you lay in term -- I thought they --
2 they sway a bit.
3 MS. GENTEMANN: There is -- when there's
4 suspension, they -- there may be a slight sway,
5 but not of the nature that you're speaking like
6 this.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: So how many could you put
8 in a 30-foot easement?
9 MS. GENTEMANN: Unfortunately, Governor,
10 I'm not a technical person. I can't give you a
11 precise answer. But I'd be happy to get back
12 with you on that answer.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I guess three times more
14 than a typical easement.
15 MS. GENTEMANN: I'm not sure on that.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Three times one and
17 one --
18 MR. SHORB: Not that easy.
19 MS. GENTEMANN: Not nec--
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Not necessarily?
21 It's not that easy, is it?
22 MS. GENTEMANN: But I -- but I -- my point
23 is that, in our view, if you want to use the
24 New York figure as a comp, you need to divide
25 it by three, because our easement is of a width
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1 one-third of New York's easement width.
2 That gives you a figure of $4.94 per linear
3 foot.
4 In New Jersey, they charge $4.97 per linear
5 foot for the first mile of their easement; and,
6 thereafter, $2.50 per linear foot for the
7 remaining 2 miles.
8 Again, in that instance, the owner of that
9 easement secures the right to lay up to five
10 cables.
11 So I have a figure of four ninety-four in
12 New York, and a figure of four ninety-seven in
13 New Jersey.
14 And when I looked at those numbers, last
15 year, we could justify coming in at an interim
16 $5 Florida fee, because even though it was
17 at -- now created a new high end benchmark for
18 one-time fees, it made sense, particularly
19 in those circumstances.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Those New York fees are per
21 annum as well?
22 MS. GENTEMANN: Yes, sir.
23 No, those are one-time fees.
24 This is just a discussion of a one-time
25 fee.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
2 MS. GENTEMANN: Okay? Which is what the
3 interim fee is, it's a one-time $5 per linear
4 foot fee.
5 That's why we could get our arms around
6 that figure last summer, that's why we could
7 justify it.
8 We are struggling mightily with the DEP's
9 proposal, which I'm not sure shifted today.
10 Perhaps it has. I'm very encouraged by their
11 language that they want to assess a nominal
12 fee.
13 But their proposal that -- to date has been
14 a $5 per square -- or per linear foot annual
15 fee. That increases our current fee from
16 hundreds of thousands of dollars, to millions
17 of dollars, and that's when we're lucky to get
18 into a corridor.
19 If we're outside that corridor, again, it
20 comes up to a $50 per linear foot fee, which we
21 think probably fairly reflects what the values
22 will be when they do the -- the appraisal --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Great.
24 MS. GENTEMANN: -- on the Florida coast.
25 NA-- NASCA believes that the $5 per linear
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1 foot annual fee proposed by the DEP is
2 excessively high, it's not supported by the
3 bulk of the data when you dig through the
4 details in the DMG report.
5 And with all due respect, we feel it's
6 unreasonable, particularly in light of all of
7 the important IT initiatives that are currently
8 taking place in Florida.
9 To sum up, NASCA would respectfully request
10 that the Cabinet direct the imposition of a
11 one-time $5 per linear foot private easement
12 fee, would reject the notion of a government
13 mandated corridor, and continue to rely on the
14 DEP's proven ability to effectively regulate
15 cable landings in a way that minimizes
16 environmental impact, and steers clear of areas
17 that are designated for specific uses, like
18 aquatic preserves and beach renourishment
19 projects.
20 Paul and I are available for questions.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have one.
23 I wish we had on our charts some of these
24 scenarios that you've played to really help us
25 arrive at what that cost linear or per square
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1 foot.
2 Another issue that I thought might come
3 into play that I -- I wanted your input on is
4 the type of natural resources that you had to
5 contend with, because we have a unique
6 situation with coral, and unique environmental
7 scenarios when -- when, for example, you've
8 explained the -- the -- the one-time fee in
9 New Jersey or New York, do you have the same
10 coral issues that you have to contend with as
11 you're laying the cable?
12 These -- these kinds of things are --
13 obviously contributed to the costs, and I just
14 haven't seen -- you know, I need some input on
15 the natural resources as well.
16 MR. SHORB: I guess every place that our
17 company's tried to land cable, the use --
18 competing uses need to be considered.
19 In some cases, it's fishermen; in some
20 cases, it's coral; in some cases, it's
21 I guess -- there's other environmental issues
22 that people have -- worry about in California.
23 So there's always something we have to work
24 with, work around.
25 The -- Florida is different in that coral
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1 is the issue. Our -- and our point is that
2 even with the special coral resources of
3 Florida, we've found ways to -- to truly
4 minimize the impact.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: How -- can -- we just
6 got these articles passed around that -- that
7 showed an 8 million dollar settlement, and a
8 1.8 million dollar settlement. We don't want
9 that to happen in Florida.
10 Can you address that issue, AT&T and the --
11 and the islands in the Caribbean?
12 MR. SHORB: Yes.
13 I think that's -- that what I said before
14 to the Treasurer was -- would be the answer I
15 would give to what you're raising now.
16 In other words, what happened in the
17 Virgin Islands was a large mud release, due to
18 contractor error and miscommunication.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
20 MR. SHORB: Right.
21 We -- we know how to keep that from
22 happening.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who's the next speaker?
24 MR. STRUHS: Mr. Tammaro. The --
25 MR. TAMMARO: Actually, Governor, I -- in
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1 the interest of time, I think it's been
2 covered.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're a great American.
4 MR. STRUHS: Now there are -- there are
5 about four speakers with an opposing point of
6 view.
7 And if you could all cue up so we can be
8 quick about it: Charles Lee, David Gluckman,
9 Paul Johnson, and Steve Medina.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Charles, welcome back.
11 MR. LEE: Governor, it's a pleasure to be
12 here. Thank you.
13 Just like to say that we like very much the
14 innovative approach that Secretary Struhs is
15 offering to try to make these decisions a
16 little bit easier, and to be science- and
17 resource-driven, rather than driven by a
18 case-by-case difficult analysis.
19 We can -- we can make these -- these
20 decisions easier by letting the science say
21 where the cables ought to go.
22 And if economic incentives are part of that
23 package, that's -- that's probably appropriate.
24 But the last thing we would like to see is
25 a situation where companies that want to lay
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1 these cables are putting a spiderweb of them in
2 locations that have the necessity of -- of
3 people being concerned about Florida's coral
4 reefs and other precious resources.
5 And -- and I think that the idea that the
6 Department is offering here is let's --
7 let's -- you know, we -- we have ship channels
8 for ships, we have highways for cars, and we
9 have pathways in the sky for airplanes to fly.
10 We try to direct them --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now you're using the
12 analogy that you rejected in the first agenda
13 item, if you recall.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: How's that?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Remember the intersection
16 of Miami River and the Intracoastal?
17 MR. LEE: No. That -- that was --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was -- oh, that was
19 someone else?
20 MR. LEE: That --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: That was the Biscayne --
22 MR. LEE: -- that --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that was the aquatic
24 preserve then.
25 MR. LEE: Yeah.
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1 That -- well, that's a good case, because
2 we have a plan that says there ought not to be
3 a commercial marina there either.
4 But we ought to make these decisions
5 easier, and -- and above all, we ought to make
6 them driven more by science than -- than --
7 than by other things.
8 And -- and I think that the Secretary's
9 recommendation tries to do that. And if -- if
10 you can lay out a path where the resource
11 impacts will be minimal, and then tell these
12 cable companies, go at it, go to that path, you
13 are going to be much more conservative of
14 resources, both in terms of the natural
15 resource area.
16 And, frankly, I think you're going to be
17 much more conservative of resources in the
18 public resource area in terms of the kind of
19 analysis and -- and -- and detailed debates
20 that you have to get into in the land
21 management and regulatory sector.
22 Let's -- let's paint a picture and let
23 people become very IT-friendly by knowing, if
24 you follow this path, you will both protect the
25 natural resource, and you will also have a
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1 minimum of regulatory difficulties.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Charles.
3 Who's next?
4 MR. STRUHS: We have -- we have another
5 great American. Mr. Gluckman has -- has --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please come forth and
7 acknowledge your greatness.
8 MR. GLUCKMAN: Yeah. It's difficult,
9 Governor.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're a great American.
11 MR. GLUCKMAN: Thank you.
12 Governor --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We need a
14 resolution.
15 MR. GLUCKMAN: I'm -- my name is
16 David Gluckman.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Great American.
18 MR. GLUCKMAN: I'm a great American
19 appearing on behalf of the Florida Wildlife
20 Federation to support the Department's
21 recommendation.
22 We think this is a good idea. It's almost
23 a no-brainer, and we would like to see you
24 support that.
25 We thank you very much, Governor.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
2 MR. JOHNSON: Good morning.
3 My name is Paul Johnson, and I'm here
4 representing Reef Relief, a nonprofit
5 organization out of Key West, Florida,
6 dedicated to the protection and preservation
7 of coral reefs.
8 I was -- also been asked to speak on behalf
9 of the Caribbean Conservation Corporation, a
10 nonprofit organization based out of
11 Gainesville.
12 And their major interest is sea turtles,
13 which are very dependent on marine habitat,
14 such as coral reef, for their continued
15 existence.
16 We're in agreement with the Department's
17 status report on fiber optic cables. We
18 believe that their recommendations for
19 preestablished corridors, to site these at an
20 assessment of an annual assessment fee, is --
21 is reasonable for this.
22 It just makes good sense and management to
23 lead people to where their activities are going
24 to be the best they can be, than to allow
25 things to be occurring throughout the whole
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1 Florida offshore shell as -- as Mr. Lee has
2 mentioned.
3 We believe that the Department needs to
4 look at it very closely, and where these --
5 where these corridors are located.
6 Some of them may even be located where
7 existing cables have been laid, because,
8 especially some of the new ones, potentially
9 the cable companies have done a good job in
10 siting those locations.
11 We don't think that they need to be all
12 over the place. Three seem -- three or four
13 seems to be a reasonable number.
14 As far as the impacts, there are documented
15 impacts from this. It would seem that just
16 laying a 2- or 3-inch cable across the shelf
17 would not cause a problem.
18 But reading from a newspaper article
19 regarding the AT&T settlement in the
20 Virgin Islands, the discharge, the -- the
21 drilling mud covered marine species, smothered
22 sea grasses, and created sediment in the water
23 around coral reefs in an area the size of one
24 to three football fields. So you can have
25 problems.
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1 Anything you put in the sea is going to
2 break, get lost, or get sick. And these
3 particular pipelines will have a problem, so
4 we'd like to site them in appropriate
5 locations.
6 Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
8 MR. STRUHS: Last speaker.
9 MR. MEDINA: Honorable Governor, members of
10 the Board, my name is Steve Medina on behalf of
11 Public Employees for Environmental
12 Responsibility.
13 PEER commends Deputy Secretary Ballard and
14 the staff for doing a commendable job in
15 recommending that you address this important
16 issue.
17 PEER strongly supports the establishment of
18 corridors. It is PEER's position that the
19 siting of fiber optic cable is primarily an
20 environmental decision.
21 In terms of size, the state of Florida's
22 one of the largest telecom markets in the
23 country. As such, Florida, like New York and
24 California, is optimally-situated when it comes
25 to choosing the terms it wants to set.
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1 And in addition, as Secretary Harris
2 pointed out earlier, we have some very
3 sensitive environmental resources.
4 For the use of switching systems and
5 repeater technologies, fiber optic companies
6 may land where it is environmentally-efficient
7 for the State of Florida. Unlike highway
8 systems or railway systems, fiber optic systems
9 move at the speed of light.
10 An environmentally-efficient solution to
11 cable landing sites would allow for an -- an
12 unhampered communications infrastructure
13 build-out which does not adversely affect those
14 industries which depend on healthy
15 environmental resources, such as tourism and
16 fishing sectors.
17 PEER would not oppose multiple corridors
18 being established in the -- in the state of
19 Florida. We are willing to support six
20 corridors total statewide.
21 We believe that six corridors would provide
22 more than enough competition to prevent
23 bottlenecks, especially for a commodity that
24 moves at the speed of light.
25 One of those corridors would be a
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1 grandfathered corridor in south Florida. The
2 other five corridors, we believe, should be
3 based on one criteria alone, which should be
4 the -- what would have the least impact on
5 Florida's environmental resources.
6 We do not object to an opt out provision
7 which allows for the laying of cable outside
8 the five designated cables, and the one
9 grandfather cable in south Florida.
10 But the costs of private easement outside
11 the corridor should be sufficiently high so as
12 to provide the funding necessary to replace in
13 its entirety the effected environmental
14 resource.
15 As to the width of the corridor, that
16 should be determined on a case-by-case basis.
17 And basically the -- the wider the width, there
18 should be higher fees associated with it.
19 We provided some details suggesting as to
20 pricing. I'm not going to go through those
21 here.
22 But we respectfully do suggest that we
23 don't agree with the concept of just merely
24 having a token fee, even within the corridor.
25 We think that items such as the cost of
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1 monitoring and diving, and as Secretary Harris
2 was saying, the unique resources in Florida,
3 would cause us to not want to simply have token
4 price differential, but we do against largely,
5 and we -- we applaud the staff for the concept
6 of having a large differential.
7 The final thing I would state is that
8 the -- on the east coast of Florida, the reef
9 resources that are important to the
10 state of Florida are not simply below
11 West Palm Beach.
12 We have the Oculina Bank reef, which is a
13 unique and fragile coral reef that goes all the
14 way up to Daytona Beach.
15 We would suggest that if there is going to
16 be another landing outside of south Florida,
17 the grandfathered one, that it take that into
18 account.
19 And lastly, we have -- Florida's coastal
20 environment is under assault by land and sea.
21 This predictable assault must be managed in a
22 way that protects Florida's environment,
23 Florida's future.
24 Florida's public employees are the first
25 line of defense, and we ask that you give them
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1 the authorization to follow through with
2 rulemaking in keeping with your public trust
3 responsibility, and ask that this process be
4 expedited.
5 Thank you.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
7 Secretary Struhs?
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why is there not a -- a
10 cable laid -- you've explained this to me, and
11 I've forgotten -- why -- why Miami-Dade is
12 excluded from this.
13 MR. STRUHS: For a variety of reasons.
14 One is in our conversations thus far with
15 the industry, they haven't indicated a peculiar
16 interest in locating in Dade County.
17 We -- we suspect --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There seems to be a
19 disagreement.
20 MR. STRUHS: Well, that's -- that's --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you want to -- can
22 you --
23 MR. GLUCKMAN: I don't mean to --
24 MR. STRUHS: Let me finish --
25 MR. GLUCKMAN: -- interrupt, but that --
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1 MR. STRUHS: I'll finish --
2 MR. GLUCKMAN: -- it's a
3 misunderstanding --
4 MR. STRUHS: I'll finish -- I'll finish my
5 answer, and then obviously --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
7 MR. STRUHS: Previous conversations and
8 previous public records in terms of meetings,
9 they haven't indicated an interest in locating
10 them there.
11 The reason we believe is because of the
12 high level of -- of shipping traffic in and out
13 of some of those ports, that it would put
14 the -- the optic -- fiber optic cables at an
15 unnecessary risk, and that getting them just
16 north of there is -- is -- is good enough.
17 So that was our belief going into this, and
18 one that we continue to believe is -- is -- is
19 true.
20 I think it -- it -- it highlights what
21 ultimately this whole subject is about, which
22 is balancing competing uses for the public's
23 water resources.
24 But I think the analogy of using shipping
25 channels and beach renourishment areas, and
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1 others is -- is --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I ask the -- if you
3 don't mind, could I ask someone from the
4 industry to answer that?
5 If -- if you disagree and -- how this
6 impacts the network access points --
7 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, sir.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the -- your proposals,
9 I'd be curious.
10 MR. TAMMARO: Yes, Governor.
11 My name is Michael Tammaro. I'm with
12 Carlton Fields. I represent New World Network.
13 We just completed, or under construction
14 with an 8600 kilometer Caribbean South American
15 ring system which lands in northern
16 Dade County.
17 I think what the industry said at the
18 workshops and in the past is that the industry
19 wants to land wherever it makes economic sense,
20 and that tends to be driven by a whole host of
21 factors that we're glad to work with your staff
22 to work out the parameters of.
23 I think there must be some misunderstanding
24 about Dade. We all know Dade's importance in
25 the -- not only the Latin American thing, but
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1 the IT thing.
2 So every time we put a line on a map,
3 Governor -- every time we put a line on our
4 map, there are issues, both offshore and upland
5 to consider.
6 And that's what the cable companies do when
7 they made the land. For instance, Palm Beach,
8 West Palm, sounds like a wonderful idea. But
9 you've got to come through Palm Beach before
10 you get to West Palm.
11 And AT&T's experience there made -- made
12 them sure never to do that again.
13 Martin County, Jupiter Island -- if anybody's
14 familiar with Jupiter Island --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
16 MR. TAMMARO: -- it's also a similar
17 enclave.
18 So we'll be glad -- there are competing
19 policies here we know.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
22 MR. TAMMARO: Yes.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: The existing corridor is
24 the one that -- that they're proposing.
25 Are -- do those make sense?
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1 I mean, is -- are there some standards?
2 I mean, I -- I know you don't like to say
3 corridor.
4 But are there some standard places where it
5 does make sense?
6 MR. TAMMARO: To mandate a corridor?
7 I don't think so. Not from the industry's
8 perspective.
9 Thank you.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, are you -- are you
11 seeking some guidance, just some underlying
12 principles to go forward on? Is that --
13 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- what we're here for?
15 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
16 The -- the Board of Trustees instructed us
17 to pursue this idea of developing corridors,
18 and in the process of working with the industry
19 and other groups, to come up with some concepts
20 where our -- our thinking has matured.
21 And -- and I think we have realized that we
22 probably never want to take away any
23 applicant's ability to come before the Cabinet
24 and seek an alignment that might be peculiarly
25 important to them for some economic reason.
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1 So we don't want to restrict them only to
2 certain areas.
3 Having said that, there is a -- a
4 preponderance of evidence that these things can
5 and -- and should be located in predetermined
6 areas that provide, not only environmental
7 protection benefits, but balancing it with
8 other competing uses --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you seeking --
10 MR. STRUHS: And also --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- some guidance from us
12 today? Or you just --
13 MR. STRUHS: We're seeking guidance on the
14 concept on the track we're on --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we're going to give
16 you something now.
17 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question for
19 Secretary Struhs.
20 If there's some areas where there's --
21 you know, there's not the coral or not the
22 issues that we have, could those be sort of
23 more inclusion zones, inste-- more zone --
24 I mean, can we look more at zones when there's
25 not coral or something else there, instead of
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1 designating absolutely a corridor?
2 Does that make sense?
3 MR. STRUHS: I -- I think we -- we -- what
4 we've proposed here for your consideration has
5 essentially the same effect. Not creating any
6 exclusion zones, indeed, saying that, you know,
7 the entire coast is open for any applicant.
8 But making it sort of the no-hassle,
9 guaranteed, simple, cheap access to those areas
10 where we can ascertain up front that there is
11 no significant environmental damage, or
12 conflict with other private or public uses of
13 these offshore resources.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: In all those areas that
15 are -- that have the -- the kind of detriment
16 penalty, or the extra surcharge, if you will,
17 because it's not a -- a, quote, corridor, are
18 there any areas along the coastline that --
19 that are in that specific distance that don't
20 have coral reefs, that there really aren't
21 environmental problems?
22 In other words, it seems like there --
23 there are certain areas in our state that it
24 wouldn't be problematic to lay cable, not just
25 to do the existing ones --
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1 MR. STRUHS: Right.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- but other areas all
3 together.
4 MR. STRUHS: That's a -- that's a good
5 question. At the beginning, I tried to -- to
6 point out that our assignment was to look at
7 all Florida coastal resources for the entire
8 state.
9 We wanted to limit this discussion today to
10 southeastern Massachusetts for two reasons --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Southeastern Massachusetts?
12 Come on, boy.
13 MR. STRUHS: Florida.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: You've been down here for
15 two years now.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: He reverts back
17 quickly.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: Take the boy out of the
19 country, but --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: This isn't Cape Cod.
21 MR. STRUHS: I'll never live that one down.
22 It's been a long day.
23 -- southeastern Florida, because the
24 resources here are -- are unique, and, indeed,
25 it's the area that the industry is most eager
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1 to -- to acquire access to.
2 I would actually suggest that we may
3 conclude in the end that the development of
4 corridors in other parts of the state may not
5 be as relevant a public policy tool as they are
6 in this corner of the state where coral
7 resources are so prevalent and so important.
8 Having said that, I mean, one of the ideas
9 that we do like about the corridor concept is
10 that it provides a guaranteed assurance for
11 this industry to have access in key areas.
12 For example, if one of our economic
13 priorities is to make sure that the military
14 bases in the panhandle continue to have access
15 to any kind of resource that they might need in
16 terms of high speed data transmission, that may
17 make a lot of sense working with the military
18 to make sure those corridors are established
19 for those -- for those very purposes.
20 But again, the corridors in that sense are
21 really more about competing uses than they are
22 about the protection of any peculiar or unique
23 natural resource.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: I understand we were --
25 asked you to come back on corridors. But
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1 I guess from my perspective, what I was saying
2 last time, I want Florida to look very
3 aggressive, very competitive in the IT arena,
4 particularly with this, number one; number two,
5 I want us to -- to balance that -- I mean, I --
6 I think we can balance that with really
7 exciting environmental interests, and that's --
8 you know, where we'd say, we -- I said, we
9 should put this into an environmental fund.
10 I mean, maybe it wouldn't even be in the
11 Internal Improvement Trust.
12 I mean, maybe we could -- and we could say,
13 it all goes there.
14 But I guess my concern is, I know you're
15 talking about corridors. But in terms of
16 exclusion zones, does -- how -- and I -- I'm
17 not familiar with the resources in terms of
18 where specific coral is.
19 But are there areas that can be excluded
20 because -- because of coral zones, you know the
21 exclusion zones, and then have everything else
22 rather open so you're being as flexible and
23 open to industry as possible
24 MR. STRUHS: I think if you -- if you look
25 at the -- I think you may have a smaller
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1 version of this in front of you.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes.
3 MR. STRUHS: The center map identifies
4 the -- the coral resources and -- and other
5 activities.
6 What -- what you'll find is -- is a --
7 essentially an unbroken band of coral resources
8 that works its way, remarkably, and
9 coincidentally, up to the -- the
10 Palm Beach/Martin County line. What we've
11 tried to do is to reflect on the fact that that
12 is a resource unto itself, and it is a
13 peculiarly challenging one to -- to work
14 through.
15 So what we've done is we've identified
16 those areas in that band of coral where there
17 are either natural openings, or where the coral
18 is not as high a quality, where it is narrower,
19 or where there has been some previous
20 disturbance already.
21 And I think what we've done is -- is find
22 where those -- where those opportunities are.
23 I shared with you the three that we would
24 think would be --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah.
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1 MR. STRUHS: -- the most -- most important.
2 There -- there would -- there could potentially
3 be a fourth --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, I mean, would you
5 consider Miami, since there's already an
6 existing one there, and -- and obviously the --
7 the audience is interested -- I mean, it seems
8 natural for Miami-Dade?
9 MR. STRUHS: Well, I -- we -- I went back
10 to check the record, and -- and -- and there --
11 there had been no previous indication of
12 interest in Miami-Dade, we believe, for the
13 shipping. Now, maybe that's changed.
14 There is arguably in another --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Shipping comes south of
16 there. It comes right in Government Cut.
17 MR. STRUHS: There -- there's -- there's
18 arguably another opportunity here for a -- for
19 a potential sort of easy access entry point,
20 and that is in Hollywood where there is a large
21 collection of AT&T cables that are currently
22 sited.
23 The -- the issue there, of course, is that
24 you've got the disturbance of cables that are
25 already in place --
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Cut through one of
2 those --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Huh?
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Cut through one of
5 those and see what happens.
6 MR. STRUHS: There's actually nine there
7 already, with a potential for 15.
8 We could -- we could possibly designate
9 that as a -- as a corridor as well.
10 The issue, of course, is that the coral
11 resources there are -- are highly -- highly
12 desirable, as opposed to the -- the three
13 others that we identified for your
14 consideration.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, the last issue is
16 just I have the concern -- well, two -- two
17 things finally.
18 I have the concern that we're designating
19 where they can go, but -- well, they indicated
20 one location that they found it not very
21 conducive once they got on land.
22 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: So I don't -- I think
24 it's inter-- I don't -- I think government
25 needs to be careful not to say, this is where
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1 you have to be if it's not conducive once they
2 hit land.
3 The second issue you mentioned earlier
4 about drilling underneath the coral, and then
5 it's -- do you have any idea when that kind of
6 technology will be sufficient to -- to move
7 forward with it? Time frame?
8 MR. STRUHS: Several answers to that.
9 One is I -- I believe the -- the -- this
10 issue of local jurisdictions is a bit of a
11 red herring. I -- I don't think it's -- I
12 don't think it's a serious issue.
13 The other thing I want to --
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: So you think we can tell
15 them which way to come in, and we're -- they're
16 not going to -- it's --
17 MR. STRUHS: I -- I really -- well, I
18 haven't seen or heard anything that would lead
19 me to believe that it's a serious permitting
20 barrier.
21 I would also point out that the --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think -- I think they
23 just -- the folks just went through it and said
24 they'll never do it again, in the West Palm
25 corridor, if it's --
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1 MR. STRUHS: The other thing I would add is
2 that if the corridors that we're looking to
3 establish are 5 miles wide.
4 I mean, these -- these are not -- these are
5 not narrow bands of -- of -- or strips. We're
6 looking at something that gives you 5 miles
7 of -- of options in terms of where that land
8 will actually occur.
9 So --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
11 MR. STRUHS: -- totally, if you add them
12 together, what we proposed here is 15 miles.
13 And that gives you quite a bit of --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner --
15 MR. STRUHS: -- possibility --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Crist, do you have a
17 question --
18 MR. STRUHS: -- where the landfall occurs.
19 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Just a comment.
20 I -- I guess if we're --
21 MR. STRUHS: I -- just -- to fini-- but to
22 finish answering your question in terms of
23 the -- the -- the drilling underneath,
24 I believe with directional drilling, we can
25 currently -- 3,000 -- we can apparently go
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1 3,000 feet now with -- with directional
2 drilling with some degree of success.
3 The expectation, as technology improves,
4 that that will -- that will potentially get to
5 the point where we can actually go through --
6 or go underneath the entire reef system without
7 having to pop up in the troughs in between --
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: What's the time frame?
9 MR. STRUHS: -- the reefs.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Having done a little
11 research on that, 10 kilometers now is quite
12 achievable. And so they're -- they're drilling
13 diagonally out to 10 kilometers and beyond now.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
15 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Governor.
16 Thank you.
17 I think in -- in the interest of looking
18 for guidance, it seems to me -- well, one
19 question first.
20 The size of the cables are about -- maybe a
21 little bit greater in diameter than a
22 garden hose?
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
24 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Yes.
25 MR. STRUHS: Big garden hose.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- do garden hose.
2 A fire hose.
3 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Fire hose?
4 MR. STRUHS: Fire hose.
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay.
6 Cool. Thanks.
7 All right. It seems to me then, if we're
8 interested in free enterprise, and free
9 markets, and we want to continue to create jobs
10 in Florida, we want to encourage technology, we
11 want to have e-commerce in our state, we want
12 to have the Internet involved as much as we can
13 in education, then I think we ought to have as
14 few governmental restrictions and impediments
15 in this area as possible, and lower fees
16 then -- the lowest fees we can.
17 And I don't know if this is the time for a
18 motion, but I'm prepared to make one, Governor,
19 if you --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't think -- this is
21 just for discussion right now.
22 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Okay. Well, that's my
23 guidance. For whatever it's worth, that's how
24 I feel. I just think --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anybody else --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRIST: -- you know --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- have any --
3 COMMISSIONER CRIST: -- we ought to
4 encourage.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom?
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I like the idea of --
7 of letting people go where they want, but
8 having it cost a little more when it -- when it
9 has environmental damages, which is one of the
10 things that you talked about.
11 In other words --
12 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- within the
14 corridor, outside the corridor, you can still
15 do it, but it -- you have to make the business
16 decision on whether that is worthwhile, and how
17 much it costs.
18 And I think we've established $5 is -- as
19 our base for wherever it goes, and then the
20 other ones could cost more.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I haven't established that.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, we did it --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: If I was going to --
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- our first one.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if someone was going to
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1 ask my opinion about this, I think it ought to
2 be as close to zero as possible on the places
3 where you have established these corridors.
4 There -- this is such a powerful industry,
5 and it -- and it's so mobile, it is so easily
6 moved, and it -- it's changing so fast, and we
7 have such a golden opportunity, particularly --
8 and I appreciate the fact that we're starting
9 here in south Florida. The same principals
10 would apply to other parts of the state.
11 But what's happened in the last year --
12 in -- with the creation -- in south Florida,
13 with the creation of the NAP, is without any
14 government involvement, I might add, I mean,
15 not a penny, we passed a law saying we support
16 it, basically, that was our involvement --
17 is -- just shows how quickly the world works,
18 compared to how quickly we work up here.
19 And I think the first -- if you're looking
20 for some guiding principals, the first guiding
21 principal would be, do no harm -- do no harm to
22 the environment, but do no harm to this
23 industry that is the lifeblood of south
24 Florida.
25 And I -- I just -- I -- I think we ought to
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1 have -- if zero -- well, a dollar -- couldn't
2 be zero because of the legal question --
3 MR. STRUHS: Right.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to me, I would like to
5 be one of the states that says zero in the
6 places that you've established.
7 We should be as competitive, or more
8 competitive than any state entry point in
9 the -- in the country.
10 And then make sure that these corridors
11 aren't just exclusively based on the -- the
12 environmental policy, because if you're going
13 to go over Jupiter Island or West -- or
14 Palm Beach, where you know that there's a
15 tradition of opposition to it, for example,
16 or -- or whatever the circ-- maybe there are
17 other municipalities, too.
18 But there needs to be some thoughtfulness
19 about these corridors in the entry point,
20 because, as was correctly pointed out, these
21 folks, once they get to -- to the land, they've
22 got to get it to the place -- they have to --
23 they have to connect it to the existing grid.
24 So that would be a second principal.
25 MR. STRUHS: Uh-hum.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: And then somehow there
2 needs to be some form of mitigation I think for
3 environmental issues.
4 And maybe, General, the technology's
5 already there. I don't know. I mean, if it's
6 already there, maybe we just make that the
7 requirement, and -- and we lessen the
8 environmental costs, and not worry about
9 reserving or pricing this out in a way that
10 would have that differential.
11 I mean, if you have one place where the
12 cost of entry is less because the environmental
13 issues are negligible, and you have another
14 place where the cost is higher because we're
15 going to require, now that we know what we
16 know, and technology's moving quicker, the cost
17 of -- of construction of the -- of the cable is
18 higher, that may be enough of an economic
19 margin, which is a good principal that you've
20 expressed here. That may be enough, I don't
21 know.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: I completely agree with
23 the Governor.
24 But I think it can't be prohibitive on the
25 side -- you can deal with mitigation, but it's
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1 almost like it's a penalty to go somewhere
2 else.
3 If you make these corridors so highly
4 competitive of any other state, I -- I think we
5 should have the lowest fees, I think we should
6 be known for that, if any fees at all.
7 But then where it is going to go in, as the
8 Governor said, miti-- mitigate, make sure that
9 it's handled as effectively with the
10 environment as possible.
11 But they can't be -- in terms of the fees,
12 they can't be prohibitive. We have to make
13 sure -- I think the mitigation issues are the
14 expensive part with something substantive
15 there, but not -- not prohibitive where they
16 can't enter.
17 MR. STRUHS: And that's where our toughest
18 challenge will be, because we need to make sure
19 that the -- the fee is material enough where it
20 will actually effect decision making, but not
21 so much that it is a barrier to entry to
22 Florida, as opposed to other markets.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: The other point I would
24 make is that we -- we need to recognize -- I --
25 I'm assuming that there is demand here, and
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1 we've -- we may have deferred people's decision
2 making to try to create these corridors. And
3 maybe I'm wrong.
4 But if we're going to go at our speed when
5 the -- when the world is moving at warp speed,
6 we may miss opportunities that could go other
7 places.
8 So I would hope that there'd be a sense of
9 urgency of trying to develop these corridors.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary, do we have a
11 sense of where all the different companies want
12 to come in actually, how much it costs, how
13 difficult it would be on the environment?
14 Do we have their optimal scenarios?
15 MR. STRUHS: Their optimal scenario I think
16 they've expressed very well, which is to have
17 no rules --
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: But I mean --
19 MR. STRUHS: -- in place.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- specifically, I mean,
21 and maybe that's a competitive knowledge issue
22 where they don't want to say where they want to
23 go in.
24 But I just think if we could look at it
25 holistically, because, I mean, I think then you
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1 have to also say, how much would it cost them
2 to go to Atlanta? Because every -- you know,
3 because that's always competitive.
4 And if it -- if it works out that it's less
5 expanse, there -- there's got to be a cost
6 differential there, I think we, not only need
7 to be the most competitive in the country, but
8 understand that we don't have a lock on the
9 market geographically.
10 MR. STRUHS: Although -- although I would
11 argue that, you know, servicing Miami is --
12 will always be cheaper through Boca Raton than
13 it will through Atlanta, Georgia.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: But servicing Miami from
15 Miami might be better.
16 I don't know. I'm not an expert at this.
17 But I -- it sounded like there were some people
18 that might have thought it'd be better.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah, it did.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: So I know we directed
21 you --
22 Governor, we directed them to take a look
23 at corridors. And what do we -- I mean, is --
24 there must be some other scenarios.
25 I'm sorry we just limited you to corridor
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1 only, so that we couldn't get a lot of input in
2 the other -- I think it's valuable to know --
3 and, again, I don't know if this is a -- a
4 secretive kind of thing, but to know where
5 people want to -- where the industries wanted
6 to come in, and see if there's -- they might be
7 creating unique corridors that are specifically
8 important to the industry.
9 MR. STRUHS: Right.
10 I -- my -- my -- my caution there is I'm --
11 given the fact that it is a dynamic industry,
12 and things do move more quickly in the private
13 sector, I'm not sure it's fair to impose that
14 requirement of the industry to predict with any
15 kind of certainty precisely where and when they
16 might want to build --
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: But you've got an input
18 from them in terms of the general regions.
19 MR. STRUHS: We -- we have. But -- but I
20 don't -- I mean, I just -- I think their --
21 their judgment and economies are going to
22 change --
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: They probably want to
24 go where the people are.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Or the costs are lower.
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1 Go ahead.
2 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Yeah.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: You want to say something
4 to comment on this, then we'll probably close
5 it up here, because --
6 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we've got a couple other
8 interesting subjects still.
9 MR. EARLY: I'll try to be brief. I've not
10 signed up to speak, and I am, so I guess that
11 makes me not a great American, and I apologize
12 for that.
13 But my name is Gary Early, and I represent
14 TyCom.
15 We went in in Boca Raton -- and to kind of
16 give you an idea of the -- of the thought
17 process that went into that, we have
18 constructed a major financial center in
19 Boca Raton, Florida.
20 So it made sense for us to come into
21 Boca Raton. That's where our people were,
22 that's where our offices were, that's where our
23 infrastructure had been built out.
24 So we looked around in that area, and we
25 limited -- we looked up and down the coast, and
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1 we were able to find an area, off of
2 Boca Raton, within the vicinity that we wanted
3 to be, that was a very, very advantageous area
4 to go in. The reef narrowed, it was in between
5 two beach renourishment areas, and it worked
6 for us very well.
7 Where we located our cables, and that type
8 of environment is not unique up and down the
9 coast. I don't think you can -- to -- to
10 designate a 5-mile area is going to eliminate
11 areas that are equally as advantageous as the
12 one we chose, and that we chose for very sound
13 and legitimate business reasons.
14 So that -- that's kind of the -- the
15 thought process that goes in. It's not
16 necessarily -- it's not an arbitrary decision
17 as to where these businesses choose to site
18 their facilities.
19 Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
21 Would you like to speak?
22 MR. SHORB: Thank you.
23 If -- if I may briefly.
24 I just wanted to respond further to the
25 good question about where does industry want
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1 corridors, if there were going to be corridors.
2 And the answer I would say is that I don't
3 think it'd really be fair to put that burden on
4 the industry, because we are now a competitive
5 industry.
6 That's a good thing in terms of bringing
7 lower prices to consumers and innovation that
8 is happening.
9 Everybody is in a different posture.
10 For example, my company has a public easement
11 for conduits, you know. We're in pretty good
12 shape.
13 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
14 room.)
15 MR. SHORB: Some other company has,
16 you know, a different background they're trying
17 to link to. Everybody is trying to do things
18 the way that's most cost effective for them,
19 get a jump on the other guy sometimes, offering
20 lower prices to consumers.
21 So everybody is -- is differently
22 situated --
23 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
24 MR. SHORB: -- and companies are changing
25 fast over time. So that's why we think that
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1 the guiding principal ought to be, as I say,
2 first do no harm. Don't restrict the
3 corridors, unless there's a sufficiently
4 compelling environmental reason, which we think
5 the data doesn't support.
6 Thank you.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Have we got you totally
8 confused, Secretary Struhs, or are we --
9 MR. STRUHS: No. I have it very clear.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, good.
11 MR. STRUHS: I think we're ready to
12 proceed, and we will continue to work --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, is there -- is
14 there a consensus that is -- that this
15 concept's worth pursuing, the corridor concept?
16 General, you're silent and stoic today.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I'm -- I'm
18 having a hard time dealing with it. It is a --
19 a tough decision to -- to make on the part of
20 the industry, on the part of the protection of
21 the environmental resources.
22 And, you know, when we first looked at this
23 some time ago, the idea was, well, let's take a
24 look at corridors, see if that's a viable way
25 of doing business.
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1 And that's, I think, what they've been
2 trying to do.
3 I'm not sure that industry has had enough
4 of their oar in the water just yet. And so
5 I -- I think we need to let it ferment a little
6 bit longer, and let industry get involved, and
7 public hearings are appropriate, whatever way
8 that you can best get industry to input I think
9 is what we need to do. And --
10 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and just march
12 on. I think that's the sense of where we're
13 going. So --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine?
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: It seems also from
16 industry, if there's other kind of consensus,
17 or a more creative idea in terms of where we're
18 going, then please bring that back as well.
19 I mean, we don't -- you know, the corridor,
20 I suppose, if that's the way we're going, it
21 can be maybe broader than 5 miles.
22 I don't know what the answers are. But
23 as -- General Milligan said, I think we have to
24 have more input from the industry.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
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1 Well, pursue. I hope there's not any
2 pending applications that are being delayed
3 because of our inability to reach a consensus
4 on this.
5 There are no pending applications?
6 MR. STRUHS: Not that I'm aware of, no.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Good.
8 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate everybody's
10 patience as we muddle through this stuff.
11 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
12 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
13 * * *
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, do hereby certify
8 that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
9 at the time and place therein designated; that my
10 shorthand notes were thereafter translated; and the
11 foregoing pages numbered 1 through 190 are a true and
12 correct record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 24TH day of MARCH, 2001.
18
19
20
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
21 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
22 850/878-2221
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND CONSUMER SERVICES
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
VOLUME II
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
March 13, 2001, commencing at approximately 9:17 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT COX
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
192
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
TERRY L. RHODES
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
TOM GALLAGHER
Treasurer
CHARLIE CRIST
Commissioner of Education
* * *
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March 13, 2001
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
AND CONSUMER SERVICES:
(Presented by Sherman R. Wilhelm, III,
Division Director)
1 Approved 194
Substitute 2 Approved 198
Substitute
Additional 3 Withdrawn 195
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 199
2 Approved 200
3 Approved 200
4 Approved 201
5 Approved 201
6 Approved 201
7 Approved 202
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 204
2 Approved 205
3 Approved 205
4 Approved 206
5 Approved 206
6 Approved 206
7 Approved 209
8 Approved 228
9 Approved 227
10 Approved 228
11 Approved --
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 234
* * *
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March 13, 2001
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Okay. Agriculture.
3 (Commissioner Crist entered the room.)
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're finished with the
5 Board of Trustees.
6 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yeah. Department of
7 Agriculture --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I thought --
9 Oh, that's right. Okay.
10 The Department of Agriculture.
11 MR. WILHELM: Yes, sir. The --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Agriculture.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
14 minutes.
15 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Item 2.
19 MR. WILHELM: I would like to take Item --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Could we leave silently?
21 MR. WILHELM: I would request that we --
22 could we skip that, and go to Item Number 3
23 first?
24 We're going to request a withdrawal of this
25 item.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry, request a what?
2 MR. WILHELM: A withdrawal of this item so
3 that we can --
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Move withdrawal,
5 Number 3.
6 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
8 second to withdraw the item.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. WILHELM: Back to Number -- Item 2.
11 Just -- for the benefit of some members of
12 the Cabinet, and to give just 2 minutes of
13 history, six years ago, clam farming in the
14 state of Florida consisted of 41 farmers, and
15 had a farm gate sales of 1.2 million dollars,
16 roughly.
17 Today, there's 350 farmers, and the
18 farm gate sale is 16 million dollars annually.
19 For the last six years, the Cabinet has
20 played a major role in that by creating
21 aquaculture use areas, and by providing
22 training to displaced fishermen because of the
23 net ban.
24 What we have before you today is an
25 applicant seeking 1.3 acres for an aquaculture
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1 support facility lease, and accompanying water
2 column in Indian River County for the purpose
3 of creating a hard clam nursery off-loading
4 area for farmed clams and storage for the
5 applicant's vessels.
6 The applicant has met all the requirements
7 and the conditions that the Florida Fish and
8 Wildlife Conservation Commission, DEP, and the
9 Department of Agriculture has required, which
10 has included changing their design of their
11 dock, and extending it an additional 165 feet
12 from the water to avoid sensitive areas.
13 As a matter of fact, this -- the applicant
14 even has agreed to add three additional
15 restrictions onto their lease that they worked
16 out with the Save the Manatee Club as of this
17 morning.
18 So we will be adding three more restrictive
19 items on their lease.
20 Staff believes that this is the best place
21 in Indian River, and with -- given the
22 restrictive covenants that we are placing on
23 this lease, we believe that it is still very
24 viable for the applicant, and staff would
25 recommend approval of this lease request.
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1 The applicant is here, as well as
2 Charles Lee has asked to speak, and Kay Young
3 of the Florida Aquaculture Association, if you
4 would so desire.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. Anybody that
6 wants to speak has a right to do it.
7 I don't see Charles.
8 Mr. Sembler, would you like to speak?
9 Where's Charles?
10 MR. SEMBLER: Governor, I'm reading the
11 town. I'm going to try to be a great American.
12 I would just simply ask you for your
13 consideration. This will certainly help our
14 family's clam farm out. Our family's business
15 will be 100 years old this month.
16 So this is a -- our last link to the past,
17 and this will help us greatly.
18 And we appreciate your consideration.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Charles.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Like to move Item 2,
21 with -- with the consideration that --
22 agreement they've made with the --
23 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Secretary.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just know that some of
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1 the guidelines, we haven't real-- fully
2 developed in terms of rulemaking.
3 Will it be the case that when we approve
4 this early that they'll also comply with them
5 once -- once they move forward?
6 MR. WILHELM: Yes, ma'am.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments,
9 questions?
10 There's a motion and a second.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. WILHELM: That's all we have.
13 Thank you very much.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
15 (The Department of Consumer & Agriculture
16 Services Agenda was concluded.)
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Bond Finance.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll second the
7 minutes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 Is there a Division of Bond --
11 Ben, are you coming?
12 MR. WATKINS: Oh, sure.
13 I'm sorry. I was --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 2.
15 MR. WATKINS: -- asleep, Governor.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Been a long day, baby.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: He's getting ready
18 for the 2:00 o'clock.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Woke him up. Woke
20 him up.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
22 MR. WATKINS: I'm well rested now.
23 Item Number 2 is a resolution authorizing
24 the distribution of a solicitation document,
25 and the award of a master equipment financing
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1 agreement for the State's Consolidated
2 Equipment Financing Program.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Item 3 is a resolution
9 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
10 fourteen million five hundred and eighty
11 thousand dollars of capital outlay bonds for
12 local school districts and community colleges.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: We're a little out
16 of sequence on this, since we've already
17 approved it at the next level.
18 Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 4 is a resolution
22 authorizing the competitive sale of up to seven
23 million seven hundred seventy thousand dollars
24 in parking facility revenue bonds for the
25 University --
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
2 MR. WATKINS: -- of Central Florida.
3 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 5 is a resolution
7 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
8 11 million dollars in parking facility revenue
9 bonds for Florida State University.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 6 is a report of
15 award on the competitive sale of
16 200 million dollars in lottery revenue bonds.
17 The bonds were awarded to the low bidder at a
18 true interest cost of 4.75 percent.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
20 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 7 is a report of
24 award on the competitive sale of 9 million
25 dollars in Florida State University housing
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1 revenue bonds. The bonds were awarded to the
2 low bidder at a true interest cost of
3 4.99 percent.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRIST: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. WATKINS: Thank you very much.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Ben.
10 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
11 concluded.)
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now, we've never done this
2 before. The State Board of Administration is
3 last. Is that so that our fellow colleagues
4 can go back --
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That's --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to work?
7 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That was a
8 suggestion, and we all agreed to that. So let
9 them --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just wanted to let the
11 record show, we're trying to be collegial.
12 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We're not
13 walking out.
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Collegial.
15 Collegial.
16 And you're not leaving us forever, huh?
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There is the
18 educational factor that --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's true.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You can
21 watch it on TV though.
22 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
23 room.)
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: You guys are dismissed if
25 you want to --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: We'll let -- leave you
2 to it.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- go -- go solve that
4 canker problem.
5 COMMISSIONER RHODES: I'm going down.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you?
7 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 1, Governor, is
8 the minutes of the meeting --
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
10 minutes.
11 MR. HERNDON: -- the 27th.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
13 General?
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There is a second.
15 Yes, of course.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 (Commissioner Crist exited the room.)
19 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
20 a fiscal sufficiency not exceeding 11 million
21 dollar, State of Florida, Florida Regents,
22 Florida State University parking facility
23 revenue bonds.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 2.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of
4 a fiscal sufficiency, not exceeding seven
5 million seven hundred and seventy thousand
6 dollar, State of Florida, Board of Regents --
7 (Secretary Harris and Commissioner Rhodes
8 exited the room.)
9 MR. HERNDON: -- University of Central
10 Florida parking facility revenue bond.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is approval of
16 a fiscal sufficiency not exceeding fourteen
17 million five hundred and eighty thousand
18 dollar, State of Florida, full faith and credit
19 State Board of Education capital outlay bond
20 for various school and community college
21 districts.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: To complete the
23 administrative backward approach, move
24 approval.
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5 is approval of
4 a fiscal determination of an amount not
5 exceeding ten million eight hundred thousand
6 dollar tax exempt, Florida Housing Finance
7 Corporation housing revenue bonds for the
8 Vinings at Hampton Village Apartments in
9 Broward County.
10 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6 is
15 reappointment of an Investment Advisory Council
16 by the Comptroller's office, Dr. Don Nast.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move approval.
18 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 7 is to request
22 permission from the Trustees to file
23 Rule 19-10.001 for adoption. This rule is one
24 of the first rules that you'll see on the
25 initial asset transfers between July 1st, 2002,
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1 and March 1st, 2003, for the defined
2 contribution plan.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can I just bring up a --
4 the General brought this question. We're --
5 since we're going to move the SBA after the
6 Division of Bond Finance.
7 Seriously, is there a --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I don't know.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I mean, is there a way
10 that --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I know --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we can --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- it is out of
14 sequence.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- subject to -- we have --
16 since I've been here, we've never -- did --
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I don't know whether
18 it's a big deal. But --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Maybe someone --
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, I tell --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- could put some --
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- you what we --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- thought to --
24 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- can do --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that, since this is
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1 going to be a regular occurrence now?
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, what we can do
3 is -- is when we do those, we'll do a motion
4 subject to approval by the SBA, and then --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we do that?
6 MR. WATKINS: At the end of the day, as
7 long as both items are approved by the
8 respective boards --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Who cares the
10 sequence.
11 MR. WATKINS: -- from a legal standpoint,
12 it's okay --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
14 MR. WATKINS: -- even though they don't
15 occur consecutively.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: And if they don't, then it
17 doesn't.
18 MR. WATKINS: We don't --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, one of them
20 backs off, it doesn't -- nothing going to
21 happen. It isn't --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- going to happen.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I just want to --
25 TREASURER GALLAGHER: That's happened --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sure --
2 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- never in my --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We'll buy that.
4 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- lifetime.
5 MR. HERNDON: Governor, you need to go
6 ahead and act on Item Number 7 then, which is
7 the asset transfer rule.
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 8 is the document
13 that we've described as a process document.
14 Essentially it lays out the steps that we're
15 going to follow and the timetable for the
16 bundled provider selection process.
17 I'd like to suggest, Governor, if you're
18 willing, that you look at Item Number 9 first,
19 which is the selection evaluation criteria,
20 and then we can come back to the time line.
21 I think it probably makes more sense that way.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to temporarily
23 pass 8.
24 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 9 --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
2 Okay. That's --
3 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 9 is the
4 selection evaluation criteria that we touched
5 on briefly at the meeting in Tampa.
6 This is the set of selection evaluation
7 criteria that we're proposing to use to select
8 bundled providers.
9 What I would recommend to you this morning
10 is if you are so inclined to provide your
11 provisional approval of the selection
12 evaluation criteria.
13 As you'll recall, we had a teleconference
14 last week with the members of the
15 Advisory Councils. The Advisory Council
16 members had a number of suggestions that they
17 wanted to see incorporated, all of which have
18 been incorporated, with one modification.
19 We also have reflected in this draft some
20 of the amendments from the industry that were
21 also proposed along the way.
22 We still have a couple of minor technical
23 issues that we've got to work through, and with
24 your permission, we'll continue to work through
25 that.
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1 But the Advisory Council at the
2 teleconference said, can we postpone adoption
3 of these until after the Advisory Council saw
4 the final engrossed version this Friday?
5 And my request of you today is to provide
6 provisional approval for that, because if the
7 Advisory Council then has no substantive
8 changes this Friday, rather than wait another
9 two weeks to come back for essentially a
10 pro forma at that point, it would be simpler to
11 just move on.
12 Now, if they do have substantive changes
13 this Friday that they want to recommend, we
14 would, of course, bring those back to you for
15 your consideration. That's always been the
16 intention.
17 I'm not aware of anybody who's here that
18 plans to speak on this. The -- the draft has
19 been out since last Friday with all of the
20 changes.
21 The one exception that I want to be sure
22 and -- and mention is that we are waiting for
23 some information from Mercer, our -- one of our
24 consulting firms, on how they propose to look
25 at this whole question of the services and
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1 education and recordkeeping and so forth that
2 bundled providers will provide to make that
3 judgment about added value.
4 But the point to bear in mind here is that
5 that's the second step in this process. The
6 first step that we're proposing is that the
7 vendors submit to Callan their proposed
8 investment products.
9 Callan would do an evaluation based on the
10 criteria that are in this document. And
11 products that don't pass that screen would not
12 be eligible for consideration as part of a
13 bundled provider's package.
14 Recall now, that one of the changes that's
15 been made is to give each bundled provider an
16 opportunity to provide up to 27 different
17 investment choices for consideration.
18 Quite frankly, if a vendor -- as was
19 commented to me by a vendor yesterday -- is
20 unable to come up with nine good ones out of
21 27 different chances, then there's something
22 wrong with our process at a more fundamental
23 level than -- than -- that what we're talking
24 about here.
25 But if the vendor passes that screen, then
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1 we move to the stage where the services and
2 education and so forth are evaluated. So the
3 absence of the Mercer material today I don't
4 believe is an impediment, because that process
5 won't even occur for another month-and-a-half
6 to two months.
7 So that's the position that we're in,
8 Governor. I apologize. I know that's a little
9 convoluted. But that's the position that we're
10 in today.
11 And we are going to move forward with our
12 Advisory Council meeting this Friday. As far
13 as I know, we have good attendance scheduled.
14 And we will postpone issuing the RFI.
15 Also a function of what happens at that
16 Advisory Council meeting, if the Advisory
17 Council meeting goes smoothly, we have no
18 significant changes, then we would plan on
19 probably issuing the RFI Monday or Tuesday.
20 If there are major substantive changes,
21 of course, we'll be coming back to you and the
22 RFI will be postponed for a couple of weeks.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I would assume,
24 Tom, that we'd be looking at a special meeting
25 of the Trustees?
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1 MR. HERNDON: Either that --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Or -- or otherwise
3 we'd be delayed another --
4 MR. HERNDON: Well, the --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- 10 days or so
6 after --
7 MR. HERNDON: -- the problem is, quite
8 frankly, that your meeting is already noticed
9 for the 29th. By the time we do the notice --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
11 MR. HERNDON: -- the 29th has come and
12 gone.
13 So we're better off just sticking with the
14 regular schedule, if we have to -- to defer it
15 for a couple of weeks.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, let me ask you
17 this:
18 We're a little -- we're a little out of --
19 out of sinc here, because the IAC and PEORPAC
20 should go over the whole written rule before we
21 get it, and that's what's happened in the past.
22 So I'm wondering what the problem is if we
23 could let them do that Friday, and we take it
24 up at the next meeting, which would be the
25 29th.
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1 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
2 And I -- and I appreciate your point. I
3 would say that this rule has been -- or this
4 proposal for selection evaluation criteria was
5 noticed publicly, we discussed it at the
6 meeting in Tampa.
7 We did have a teleconference with both
8 Advisory Councils last week. We had good
9 participation from both Advisory Councils.
10 They did make some suggested changes, and those
11 have been incorporated in here.
12 So what we'd be doing is going back to them
13 for a -- a second look, if you will. And you
14 have our commitment certainly that if there are
15 major changes, we would be bringing that back
16 to you.
17 It's only in the instance where there are
18 minor, if any, changes that we would move on.
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Was there --
20 If I may.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
22 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Was there any
23 discussion at that meeting, or since, that
24 those two committees would like to see the
25 document as a whole prior to moving it out?
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1 MR. HERNDON: Absolutely.
2 That was brought up and discussed, and we
3 committed to do that, and that's exactly what
4 we intend to do, is take it back to them this
5 Friday. We're going to have quite a bit of
6 discussion, I suspect, on it.
7 The only thing that I'm suggesting is, we
8 want to move forward with that process. But if
9 there are no changes, then rather than lose the
10 two weeks, let's move ahead. If there are
11 changes, we'll come back to you for
12 recommendation.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I can --
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I can -- I'm
16 comfortable with the conditional approval,
17 having looked at the document, and see what's
18 in it now. I can't see where there are going
19 to be any major hiccups on this thing.
20 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, my only thing
21 is when you have two committees that are
22 supposed to read a document and recommend to
23 us, we're sort of putting the cart before the
24 horse saying --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, they have --
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1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- this is --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- they have made --
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- what -- we
4 tentatively approved, now you guys rubber stamp
5 it type thing.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No. They -- they
7 have made a recommendation. They have made
8 recommendations already.
9 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And those
11 recommendations have been in the main
12 incorporated --
13 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- where they
15 haven't been incorporated, it's been so noted.
16 And so I -- I can't see that they're going to
17 make any major -- make any major changes.
18 And if this moves the process along, which
19 is what your concern is I think, Tom, not to
20 lose a couple of weeks, I -- I think we can
21 live with the conditional approval.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are the differences
23 now? We're getting --
24 MR. HERNDON: We're down to some fairly
25 minor issues with the industry. There is,
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1 of course, proposed legislation where we have
2 some fairly dramatic differences. And I'm not
3 sure, Governor, if that's what you're referring
4 to.
5 With the industry, the -- the issues
6 I think are -- are genuinely fairly minor.
7 I mean, we've got a couple of questions with
8 respect to some annuity language that we're
9 looking at, and our lawyers are going back and
10 forth with New York lawyers and so forth,
11 trying to get that all straight.
12 There really aren't a lot of significant
13 issues that I'm aware of now. It's primarily
14 more a question of just getting them pieced
15 together.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: And -- and the bundled
17 providers can make a -- a proposal without
18 knowing how we're going to factor in what's
19 being referred to as value added?
20 MR. HERNDON: Well -- and, again, let me --
21 let me reenforce this point, because I think it
22 goes directly to -- to not only your question,
23 but to the issue about deferring this.
24 Remember now that what we're proposing is
25 essentially a two-step process for the bundled
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1 provider.
2 Step one, which is the portion that is
3 delineated in this document in quite a bit of
4 detail, contemplates looking at the investment
5 products themselves that they propose. And
6 they go through essentially a screen, based on
7 the criteria in this document, and the best
8 products are picked out of that.
9 Then they move to step two, which is
10 looking at the services and education,
11 recordkeeping, and so forth, that they wrap
12 around those investment products.
13 Our feeling has always been that at its
14 core, what's important here is the -- is the
15 investment products themselves.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Doesn't it -- I'm just
17 trying to understand this, because I don't --
18 evaluate is a very nebulous term.
19 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: If convenience or security
21 are factors, and the bundled providers might
22 say that --
23 MR. HERNDON: Right.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you know, that they have
25 more expertise than the individual person --
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1 MR. HERNDON: Right.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that would be in the
3 defined benefit program, how do you -- I've
4 never understood how you would actually
5 measure -- I mean, that's a value that could be
6 added to someone in their decision making.
7 How do you factor that?
8 How do you -- how's Mercer going to look at
9 this?
10 And if they look at it going forward in a
11 way that dramatically changes what people would
12 offer in -- as an investment tool.
13 I would have thought that the way you
14 measure it is return. But there -- you know,
15 apparently there are other things that might be
16 considered.
17 MR. HERNDON: Well, certainly return is one
18 of the most fundamental measures of performance
19 for the investment products themselves.
20 It doesn't have a great deal to do with the
21 services that are provided as the wraparound.
22 And that's, as we envision it, kind of
23 the second stage.
24 Now, we tried in these selection evaluation
25 criteria to detail in -- in quite a bit of --
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1 of rigorous fashion, a variety of factors that
2 we thought were indicative of value-added.
3 We haven't added weights and so forth yet,
4 and that's the portion that we're waiting on
5 from Mercer. But that is, again, the second
6 stage of this evaluation as we see it.
7 And it's our feeling that the first and
8 most important step is that we determine which
9 one of these proposed investment products are
10 the best in class based on their investment
11 performance, and essentially only on investment
12 performance.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
14 Does -- does anybody in the industry want
15 to speak on this, or --
16 MR. HERNDON: I -- I wasn't aware of any --
17 Senator Kiser.
18 MR. KISER: Curt Kiser, representing VALIC.
19 Governor, and members of the SBA,
20 I think -- I -- to -- as I said to you back in
21 Tampa, a lot of progress has been made, and a
22 lot of things have been pinned down and
23 clarified that -- that help a great deal.
24 And at the -- at the meeting last week, on
25 the conference call, a couple of things were
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1 specifically asked. One was to be more
2 definitive about best in class.
3 We really would like to know how that's
4 going to be judged so that we know which of our
5 products are going to meet that criteria so we
6 could be sure to have them in the bid, and,
7 likewise, not have them in there if they're not
8 going to reach that criteria.
9 And they've made an effort, which happened
10 over the weekend, to put some of that down.
11 But it's still not as definitive, and the
12 weights aren't there, so you still don't really
13 know, and -- and just, you know, be right out
14 blunt, we still would prefer that that be
15 detailed a little further, and that the
16 Advisory Committee meeting on Friday have a
17 chance to chew on that a little bit.
18 I think there's good that can come out of
19 that from both sides, both helping to inform us
20 how they're going to be judged. Because
21 remember what we just said? I mean, once you
22 submit that bit, if we haven't figured that
23 right, if it hasn't been clear enough, and we
24 don't make that best of class category, you're
25 out.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 223
March 13, 2001
1 I mean, that's just how important that
2 first screening is, or you don't get to go
3 to -- to -- to second base.
4 And so we would still like to see that
5 clarified. I don't think it's going to delay
6 it that long to have that chewed on a little
7 bit more, and hopefully come up with a little
8 bit more definition.
9 For example, at the meeting last Friday, we
10 suggested the Morningstar rating service be
11 used so it would be something very definite so
12 you know exactly where you stand on that.
13 That sort of thing -- that sort of level of
14 detail has not been provided yet, and we think
15 it's in the best interest of you all to have
16 that, and certainly in our best interest so we
17 know exactly what we're bidding on, and we can
18 put our best products out there, know how it's
19 going to be rated.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Will it be --
21 MR. KISER: That level of detail we still
22 need.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Will it be provided by
24 the -- the meeting this Friday, is that when it
25 is, Tom?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 224
March 13, 2001
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, let me ask a
2 question. If -- before you go to that
3 question, if I may.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
5 TREASURER GALLAGHER: If we set a criteria
6 of using Morningstar, then we don't need to
7 have any bids or anything, we'll just pass a
8 rule, says we use Morningstar, pick out the top
9 ones of Morningstar, and -- and, you know, it's
10 all over.
11 So I'm not sure if that's where we want to
12 find ourselves --
13 MR. KISER: Commissioner Gallagher, I
14 didn't -- I --
15 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Unless you're --
16 MR. KISER: -- didn't suggest --
17 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- representing all
18 the top guys at Morningstar.
19 MR. KISER: I didn't suggest that that be
20 the only one. I suggested that there -- that
21 there would be -- that there's a combination of
22 things you look at.
23 But at least of those combination of
24 factors, they're definitive, and you know
25 exactly where you stand with those.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 225
March 13, 2001
1 We've never advocated, even last Friday,
2 that there be one standard. In fact, we
3 suggested that currently in the 457 program,
4 the SBA has their own developed best of class
5 criteria right down the line, about five,
6 six things you specifically look at.
7 We suggested, for example, you go to that
8 level of detail to tell us where we stand on
9 it. That's what we're suggesting.
10 Not just one rating service, but a
11 combination of factors. And that's the thing
12 that we're still kind of looking for, to make
13 sure we can put our best bid forward.
14 Thank you.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom, can you answer the
16 question about when this would be established?
17 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
18 As it relates to the investment products
19 themselves, and making the determination about
20 what constitutes the best in class on the --
21 essentially the sole grounds of the investment
22 product performance, those criteria are in the
23 selection evaluation criteria.
24 And that's -- and that is, in fact, the --
25 the criteria that we are proposing. And we can
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 226
March 13, 2001
1 go to that if you'd like, and -- and look at
2 those.
3 The portion that is not here is that second
4 step portion which relates more to the services
5 and the education and the recordkeeping
6 services that a bundled provider wraps around
7 those investment products.
8 So -- and that's the portion that we're
9 missing. We expected to have it here already,
10 it's not.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Would it be there --
12 MR. HERNDON: But it will be here by
13 Friday. We're certainly anticipating that
14 that's --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: And what you're saying is
16 if there's any change --
17 MR. HERNDON: If there's any substantive
18 change, we'll bring it back; if there isn't,
19 we'll move forward.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think I concur with the
21 General then.
22 You okay with that?
23 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Two to one makes it
24 pretty okay.
25 I concur, too, then, I guess. I can count.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 227
March 13, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: All righty then.
2 MR. HERNDON: All right. If -- if you'd
3 like then to move back to Item Number 8,
4 Item Number 8 is the process document, and --
5 and essentially it outlines the sequence of
6 steps that we propose to follow which -- pretty
7 much just described.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did we just -- should I say
9 there's a motion and a second --
10 MR. HERNDON: I'm sorry.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There -- there is a
13 motion to -- on the --
14 TREASURER GALLAGHER: On -- on 9, right?
15 MR. HERNDON: On Item 9.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: To conditionally
17 approve.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Want me to second it?
21 TREASURER GALLAGHER: No, I'll do it. I
22 see the handwriting --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
24 approved.
25 Unanimously approved, I might add.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 228
March 13, 2001
1 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 8 is the process
2 document that we temporarily passed earlier.
3 And -- and given your action here, those
4 dates and so forth are congruent.
5 However, again, we recognize, if it
6 changes, we'll be back to you, and we'll have
7 to change that -- that document. But it's
8 primarily for guidance.
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 10 is appointment
14 of an Advisory Council member of the Florida
15 Hurricane Catastrophe Fund.
16 This is an appointment by the State
17 Insurance Commissioner's office, Jim Woodside,
18 Tampa. And I believe you have his --
19 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion.
20 MR. HERNDON: -- resume and so forth.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and seconded.
22 Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. HERNDON: And that completes the SBA
25 agenda.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 229
March 13, 2001
1 We now move, Governor, with your
2 permission, to the Florida Water Pollution
3 Control Financing Corporation.
4 And Secretary Struhs is President; and
5 Comptroller and Treasurer are members of the
6 Board; and, Governor, your designee --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm finished?
8 MR. HERNDON: You are finished.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, he shouldn't
10 be allowed to go until --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'll sit and watch.
12 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Donna is supposed to
13 be here.
14 MR. STRUHS: This -- this should be brief.
15 Donna Arduin, I -- I'm afraid is not going
16 to join us.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 MR. STRUHS: But we do have a quorum with
19 the three of us. So I would call to order a --
20 a meeting of the organization of the
21 Corporation.
22 And alert you to the fact that the
23 resolution before us specifically accomplishes
24 several things:
25 It approves the forms of a Master Trust
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 230
March 13, 2001
1 Indenture Loan Agreement Service Contract
2 between DEP and the Corporation, and a series
3 2001 Supplemental Trust Indenture; authorizes
4 validation of the bonds; selects a trustee
5 registrar paying agent; authorizes the
6 negotiated sale of no more than 50 million of
7 the corporation's bonds; and authorizes the
8 Chief Executive Officer to take all actions
9 necessary to sell and deliver the first series
10 of bonds in the maximum principal amount of
11 50 million dollars.
12 You will recall that the statute that
13 created the corporation laid out for us the
14 authority to issue 50 million dollars worth of
15 bonds in year one; seventy-five in year two;
16 a hundred in year three.
17 This resolution recognizes the total amount
18 of 225 million, and then authorizes the actual
19 sale of the first 50.
20 Next year, and in year 3 when we deal with
21 the next increment of seventy-five and a
22 hundred, it will come back to the corporation
23 for your further consideration.
24 So with that, I'd entertain a motion to
25 approve the resolution.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 231
March 13, 2001
1 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve it.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and I'll
3 second it.
4 I -- I need to comment, you know, this has
5 been an issue that was a tough struggle a few
6 years ago. And I compliment you and your staff
7 for where we are with this program right now,
8 because I think it's on the right track.
9 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I might mention --
10 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
11 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- that this all came
12 about back when I was in this job before, and
13 a -- a fellow asked me about -- whether -- was
14 it true that they could get these 18 percent
15 bonds that the State of Florida was
16 guaranteeing, and he -- he had heard this in
17 Canada.
18 And so I said, I don't know, but we've got
19 Treasury money I'll put in if the State's
20 guaranteeing 18 percent. So I'm going to find
21 out about it.
22 And I checked with the Comptroller's office
23 back then, and sort of got to the bottom of it.
24 And there was a lot of hanky-panky going on in
25 that operation.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 232
March 13, 2001
1 And --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Previous Comptroller.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: -- and this all came
4 about.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. It was a
6 previous Comptroller.
7 But -- but --
8 TREASURER GALLAGHER: It wasn't him doing
9 the hanky-panky. It was --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But this -- this
11 was -- this was a tough program to get on
12 track.
13 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Yes.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And it -- and it is
15 on track.
16 TREASURER GALLAGHER: Well, look how long
17 it's taken.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I -- I just
19 compliment David and his staff for making that
20 happen.
21 MR. STRUHS: General, you're very kind. I
22 will -- I've read the history though, and I
23 know that it is a better, workable program
24 today because of your diligence some years ago.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Good.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 233
March 13, 2001
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's for sure.
2 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
3 TREASURER GALLAGHER: I think so.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do we have a vote?
5 I didn't hear the vote.
6 Will you please see that there was --
7 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
8 was concluded.)
9 * * *
10 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
11 1:16 p.m.)
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
234
March 13, 2001
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
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5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, do hereby certify
8 that the foregoing proceedings were taken before me
9 at the time and place therein designated; that my
10 shorthand notes were thereafter translated; and the
11 foregoing pages numbered 192 through 234 are a true
12 and correct record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 24TH day of MARCH, 2001.
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LAURIE L. GILBERT COX, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
24 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
25 850/878-2221
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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