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T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
VOTE ON PAROLE COMMISSION
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
September 12, 2000, commencing at approximately
9:16 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
3
September 12, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
VOTE ON PAROLE COMMISSION:
Approved 6
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 8
2 Approved 8
3 Approved 9
4 Approved 9
5 Approved 10
6 Approved 11
7 Approved 11
8 Approved 12
9 Deferred --
10 For Discussion 15
11 For Information Only 19
12 Approved 21
13 For Information Only 21
14 Approved 25
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 27
2 Approved 32
3 Presentation 36
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by James A. Zingale, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 40
2 Approved 46
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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September 12, 2000
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 47
2 Approved 58
3 Withdrawn 58
4 Approved 59
5 Deferred 59
6 Approved 60
7 Approved 61
8 Approved 64
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by David B. Struhs,
Secretary)
1 Approved 65
2 For Discussion 65
Substitute 3 Deferred 92
4 Deferred 92
5 Reconsideration 120
Deferred 122
6 Approved 122
7 Approved 124
Substitute 8 Withdrawn 124
9 Deferred 136
Substitute 10 Deferred 137
11 Approved 138
12 Approved 153
13 Approved 154
14 Approved 154
15 Approved 155, 157
Substitute 16 Approved 157
Second
Substitute 17 Approved 199
18 Approved 199
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 201
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
PAROLE COMMISSION VOTE 5
September 12, 2000
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:30 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We now have a vote for the
4 Parole Commission. And there are three
5 candidates: Monica David, Maxine McConnell,
6 and Calvin Ross.
7 And I've not done this before, so I assume
8 we just --
9 We've got the ballots.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Ballots.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Pass down the
12 ballots.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Pass them out.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Thank you.
15 Is that it -- wait.
16 Here we go.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You can't
18 have any more than seven.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If there's more
20 than seven, there's a problem.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's right.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Four to four.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Although in Fort Lauderdale
24 and Miami-Dade --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I wasn't supposed
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PAROLE COMMISSION VOTE 6
September 12, 2000
1 to fill out those two you passed down?
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Former Cabinet
3 members vote.
4 (Discussion off the record.)
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: The vote was five for
6 Monica David, and two for Calvin Ross. So
7 Monica David is now on the Parole Commission.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
9 Governor, just for the record, that will not
10 take effect before October 1st, will it,
11 because I think the person there now has to --
12 has to be in it until at least October 1 in
13 order to get her number of years.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Right. So it'll be the
15 next parole -- not this upcoming meeting, but
16 it'll be October 1st or 15th --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Whatever the
18 date is, Governor. Why don't we --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- we can
21 bring it up with her.
22 (The Parole Commission Vote was concluded.)
23 * * *
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. The next Cabinet
2 meeting will be a -- at the home of our
3 illustrious Comptroller in Panama City,
4 Tuesday, September 26, at the City Commission
5 chambers there in City Hall.
6 And -- and I've asked Colleen, I believe,
7 that the other Cabinet Aides have agreed with
8 this, that we're going to -- instead of having
9 an agenda that is as fluffy as possible, we're
10 going to actually have a regular Cabinet
11 meeting so people can see what we do.
12 So -- and so hopefully, there'll be some
13 interesting things that people in Bay County
14 will get to see that we do, other than pass
15 resolutions and take pictures.
16 State Board of Administration.
17 Good morning, Tom.
18 MR. HERNDON: Good morning, Governor,
19 members.
20 Item Number 1 on the agenda is approval of
21 the minutes as amended from the meeting of
22 July 25th, 2000.
23 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8
September 12, 2000
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
3 a fiscal determination of an amount not
4 exceeding nine million six hundred fifteen
5 thousand dollar tax exempt, and two million
6 six hundred and thirty thousand dollar taxable,
7 Florida Housing Finance Corporation Housing
8 Revenue Bonds for Ashton Pointe Apartments in
9 Volusia County.
10 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move that item.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll -- I'll second
12 it, Governor.
13 I -- I continue to have concerns about the
14 kind of the rubber stamp operation that we have
15 on these Florida Housing Corporation bonds.
16 I know they do look at them, Tom. But you
17 accept basically the input that they provide.
18 So by law, we're doing this. But it really is
19 almost a rubber stamp. And -- and I'm just
20 expressing my concern about it.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of
24 a fiscal determination of an amount not
25 exceeding thirteen million three hundred and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 9
September 12, 2000
1 seventy thousand dollar tax exempt, and
2 four million five hundred thousand dollar
3 taxable, Florida Housing Finance Corporation
4 Housing Revenue Bond, Series 2000 for the
5 Cobblestone Apartments in Osceola County.
6 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move the
7 Item 3.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is approval of
12 a fiscal determination of an amount not
13 exceeding eight million eight hundred and
14 sixteen thousand five hundred dollar tax
15 exempt, and three million nine hundred and
16 one thousand dollar taxable, Florida Housing
17 Finance Corporation Housing Revenue Bond, for
18 the Grande Pointe Apartments in Orange County.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Motion on the item.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5 is approval of
24 a fiscal determination of an amount not
25 exceeding eight million ninety-six thousand
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 10
September 12, 2000
1 four hundred dollar tax exempt, and two million
2 nine hundred and sixty thousand dollar taxable
3 Florida Housing Finance Corporation Housing
4 Revenue Bonds for The Park at Palm Bay
5 Apartments in Brevard County.
6 And, Governor, members, let me just note
7 for the record that the original resolution
8 that typically is certified prior to this step
9 in the process has not been received. We've
10 got a minor glitch in just paperwork transfer.
11 It does not change the fact pattern upon which
12 the fiscal determination is based.
13 But I did want to make you aware of that
14 fact. We should have that original resolution
15 tomorrow. Just a delay in -- in Fed Exing.
16 But for the record so that you know that.
17 TREASURER NELSON: Move it.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second it.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6 is approval of
22 a fiscal determination of an amount not
23 exceeding ten million two hundred and
24 eighty-five thousand dollar tax exempt, and
25 three million three hundred and ninety-five
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11
September 12, 2000
1 thousand dollar taxable Florida Housing Finance
2 Corporation Housing Revenue Bonds for the
3 Raintree Apartments in Lake County.
4 TREASURER NELSON: And I'll move the item.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 7 is approval of
9 a fiscal determination of an amount not
10 exceeding fourteen million dollar tax exempt,
11 and 1.2 million dollar taxable Florida Housing
12 Finance Corporation Housing Revenue Bonds,
13 Series 2000, for the Summer Palms Apartments in
14 Hillsborough County.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move it.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 8 is approval of
20 a fiscal determination of an amount not
21 exceeding 75 million dollar, Florida Housing
22 Finance Corporation Affordable Housing
23 Guarantee Revenue Bonds, all taxable, for
24 Series 2000A to further capitalize the
25 Affordable Housing Guarantee Fund of the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 12
September 12, 2000
1 Housing Corporation.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll move it.
3 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 Tom, before you go forward, just to comment
7 on the -- the General's comment, I had asked
8 Mark Kaplan to come today, the new
9 Executive Director, and he was out of town.
10 But I think it'd be appropriate to -- for
11 him to come at one of the next meetings to give
12 a report on -- on the -- the audit that was
13 done, and -- and answer your concerns also
14 perhaps about the -- the pricing of the bonds
15 and how they do it so that -- and there was a
16 lot of very in-depth criticism of the -- of the
17 Corporation. And I'm confident that he has
18 grabbed ahold of the issues that were -- that
19 you -- your report showed.
20 And I think it'd be appropriate to have him
21 come and give us a briefing on that, if you
22 don't -- if y'all don't mind.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I think it's a
24 very good idea, Governor. And I've had a
25 chance, as my staff has had a chance, to meet
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 13
September 12, 2000
1 with the new Director, and I feel very
2 comfortable with the direction he's going.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
4 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 9 is styled as
5 adoption of a proposed series of performance
6 criteria for the Public Employee Optional
7 Retirement Plan for the implementation phase of
8 this project.
9 And I know that it may seem a little out of
10 sequence in the sense we had this item, plus
11 the Investment Policy Statement traveling
12 together. It is not essential that this be
13 approved today.
14 It has been reviewed by our consultants,
15 Mercer and Associates, as well as visited by
16 the Investment Advisory Council a couple times.
17 But, you know, if the -- if the members
18 would prefer to take this all as a package,
19 then we can defer this till the 26th. There's
20 certainly no harm done. And we do intend to
21 bring the Investment Policy Statement to you in
22 Panama City --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Panama City?
24 MR. HERNDON: -- on the 26th, so that
25 should generate some interest.
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September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: To my point.
2 MR. HERNDON: Yes. Exactly.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I --
4 TREASURER NELSON: You will --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I would --
6 TREASURER NELSON: -- pack the place.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: The --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I think the --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- occupancy rates in
11 Bay County may go up significantly.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I think it'd be a
13 good idea to postpone this until the -- the
14 Advisory Committee, the PEORP Advisory
15 Committee has had a chance to look at it --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are they meeting on
17 Thursday, is that --
18 MR. HERNDON: That's correct. They are
19 meeting on Thursday.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And -- and either
21 bring it back in Panama City, or some
22 subsequent meeting, because this is not really
23 super time sensitive at this --
24 MR. HERNDON: That's correct. It is not.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So whenever it's an
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September 12, 2000
1 appropriate time, Tom.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
3 MR. HERNDON: That's fine. We'll -- so
4 it's deferred?
5 Item Number 10 is simply a discussion of
6 the Investment Policy Statement to bring the
7 members of the Board up to speed with respect
8 to the Advisory Council meetings that have
9 taken place.
10 As you've pointed out, Governor, the new
11 Advisory Council is scheduled to meet on
12 Thursday. And thanks to General Milligan, I
13 believe we do now have five members again. And
14 we're looking forward to briefing all of them
15 on Thursday. We've got a full day session
16 scheduled.
17 We did put in the minutes, just so that you
18 know, I think a fairly faithful recap of the
19 testimony that was provided at the meeting in a
20 summary form so that you just have that
21 information available to you in terms of how
22 the various parties viewed the proposed draft.
23 It is not our intention at the meeting on
24 the 14th to alter our recommendations at this
25 time. In other words, we're taking the
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September 12, 2000
1 original set of recommendations to the
2 Advisory Council so they'll see the same
3 thought process that we've put before the
4 Investment Advisory Council.
5 And then based on their comments and input
6 and so forth, we'll bring a new recommendation
7 to you on the 26th.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you give us a hint?
9 MR. HERNDON: That would be spoiling the
10 surprise, Governor.
11 There's obviously been a great deal of
12 consternation about the -- the institutional
13 flavor of the investment line-up. We recognize
14 that there are different points of view on that
15 subject.
16 We would like very much to hear what the
17 Advisory Council has to say on Thursday. And
18 then with our consultants' comments and
19 so forth, we --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, can we have a little
21 bit of discussion about it today, just the --
22 MR. HERNDON: Absolutely. By all means.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, I -- I have a -- a
24 belief that -- I mean, this is a huge deal, as
25 you know, Tom, and you all -- your whole team
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September 12, 2000
1 is working very hard on it. And there's a lot
2 of interest, a whole lot of interest.
3 And my hope is that what we end up with is
4 something that reflects the incredible
5 diversity of the membership of the Florida
6 Retirement System, and that I understand
7 enough -- not enough probably -- but I
8 understand that, if you have too many choices,
9 it may overwhelm people, and, therefore, not --
10 the people will just opt out of -- or -- or
11 stay in the defined benefit plan.
12 But I think, given the fact that we do have
13 a very diverse group of people with diverse
14 needs, and diverse aptitudes about -- and --
15 aversions to making investments themselves,
16 that we -- we ought to make sure that we have
17 enough options for people without overwhelming
18 them.
19 And -- and I think if we do that, we'll
20 probably accommodate all of the folks that take
21 a real active interest in this as well.
22 So that would be my only humble suggestion.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: If I could,
24 Governor --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
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September 12, 2000
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the -- there has
2 been a tendency through all these discussions
3 to really focus on the defined contribution
4 side of this argument.
5 And clearly we have, the three of us
6 collectively, responsibility -- fiduciary
7 responsibility by law, for both the
8 defined benefit, and the defined contribution.
9 In that regard, I -- I asked Tom to look at
10 the impact on the defined benefit side as we
11 transition --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Uh-hum.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- resources and --
14 and -- and -- and really broaden the scope of
15 our activities.
16 He has done an initial at least look at
17 that, which he sent me a response to it, copies
18 to your staff. And I -- I would recommend that
19 you look at it, because it does define better
20 some of those concerns that we need to have for
21 the defined benefit side of the house.
22 And --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I assume that there's
24 some costs associated --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: There are. And it's
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September 12, 2000
1 interesting. As you look at the approach that
2 is currently in the Investment Policy
3 Statement, versus the approach that is being
4 discussed as possible modifications to that
5 Statement and the costs -- additional costs
6 associated with it.
7 So I -- I would just recommend that --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I will --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- you --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- look at it.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- look at --
12 remember, we have a responsibility to
13 defined benefit, which, by the way, is better
14 than 80 percent of the FRS when this is all
15 over. And -- and we can't lose sight of where
16 our responsibilities lie.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Tom.
18 MR. HERNDON: Okay, Governor.
19 Item Number 11 is our monthly
20 implementation status report on the transition
21 of the DB plan to the DC plan. It -- it's
22 pretty straightforward. It -- we made good
23 progress, and by in large are on track.
24 All of the working groups have been
25 empaneled, they're all working, they're all
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September 12, 2000
1 meeting, they've got draft RFPs under
2 consideration as staff groups and so forth.
3 And so -- I mean, but basically the -- the
4 bottom line of the report is that things
5 look -- look good from a -- from a day-to-day
6 implementation point of view. There's no
7 action that's required of you on that -- on
8 that point.
9 Item Number 12 is a little bit of an
10 unusual item, and I don't recall having brought
11 anything like this before you in the past.
12 But as it turns out, in the case of one of
13 the members of our Investment Advisory Council,
14 Mr. Bill McBride, and one of the members of the
15 Advisory Council to the new DC program, we have
16 conflicts of interest that have been declared.
17 And under the statute, and under previous
18 Ethics Commission rulings, the parties may
19 continue to participate in discussions
20 involving the matters where they have a
21 conflict, if they get a waiver of the prior
22 statutory requirements by the appointing
23 official. But it must be done in public.
24 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
25 MR. HERNDON: And so this is the forum for
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September 12, 2000
1 that.
2 Mr. McBride, who is Commissioner Nelson's
3 appointee, had indicated that he does not wish
4 a waiver. He's simply going to recuse himself
5 from any discussion that involves matters where
6 his firm represents particular -- particular
7 clients.
8 So I don't believe there's any specific
9 action that the Board or Commissioner Nelson
10 would need to take.
11 In the case of Ms. Cariseo, her conflict is
12 a -- an endorsement relationship with
13 Nationwide Insurance Company.
14 Governor, that is your appointee. And
15 effectively, you would need to authorize or
16 grant a waiver of the applicable conflict of
17 interest statutes under Chapter 112 this
18 morning by simply acknowledging that -- that
19 that's your preference, and then we can move
20 forward.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: That is my preference.
22 MR. HERNDON: Thank you. All right.
23 That takes care of Item Number 12.
24 Item number 13 is --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excuse me.
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September 12, 2000
1 MR. HERNDON: Yes.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom, there's also -- is
3 there any issue with the new -- I can't -- I
4 don't remember the acronym, what it stands for,
5 so I won't say it.
6 MR. HERNDON: Advisory council?
7 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, no. Not the Investment
9 Advisory Council. The --
10 MR. HERNDON: Right. The PEORPAC, the
11 Public Employee Optional Retirement Advisory
12 Council. That's --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: That one.
14 MR. HERNDON: -- that's the worst one,
15 Governor.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
17 MR. HERNDON: Wish we had --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tops it off as --
19 MR. HERNDON: Yeah.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: With -- with --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I discussed -- I
22 discussed this with Alex Sink. And it -- her
23 indication was, no, that there would be no
24 conflict.
25 But she was going to look at it. And --
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September 12, 2000
1 and I believe Tom will be talking to her about
2 it.
3 MR. HERNDON: Yes.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I will be
5 talking about it again with her on Thursday.
6 MR. HERNDON: Right.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just to be -- you know, so
8 that will be cleared up prior to --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Absolutely.
10 MR. HERNDON: Right.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Fantastic.
12 MR. HERNDON: Right.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
14 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 13 is the monthly
15 fund activity analysis report for the month of
16 June 2000 submitted for information.
17 Governor, that officially completes the
18 State Board of Administration agenda.
19 And with your leave, we would like to call
20 under Item Number 14, the Florida Water
21 Pollution Control Financing Corporation to
22 order, and have an agenda item in this case.
23 In -- in this instance, the Board of
24 Directors, per the statute, is
25 General Milligan; Commissioner Nelson;
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September 12, 2000
1 Ms. Arduin, who is your representative as a
2 member of the Board; and Mr. Struhs, who is the
3 fourth member of the Board.
4 And I know Mr. Struhs is here --
5 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Donna's here. Can you
7 come up?
8 And in this particular instance, as you'll
9 recall at the last meeting of the -- the
10 Cabinet, we sought your authorization to
11 pre-release some RFPs to circulate the Articles
12 of Incorporation, and so on and so forth so
13 that we didn't lose that intervening month of
14 August.
15 So this morning, what we would like to
16 encourage is a motion by one of the members of
17 the Board -- the two assembled here, or the two
18 up there -- to elect the officers, to adopt
19 Articles of Incorporation, to adopt the bylaws,
20 a corporate seal, and to ratify the RFPs that
21 have been disseminated, and direct the
22 Secretary to reflect these actions in the
23 minutes.
24 And that can be done as one motion if the
25 members of the Board would care to do so.
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September 12, 2000
1 So if anybody --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I
3 certainly would move Items 2-A through F,
4 except I think it needs to be articulated as to
5 the chairperson and the other members of the
6 elected officers.
7 And we are proposing that Secretary
8 David Struhs be the Chairperson, with the
9 President being Executive Director Tom Herndon,
10 Treasurer being Coleman Stipanovich, and
11 Secretary being Tom Beenck.
12 MR. HERNDON: Correct. And if --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So I would move
14 those -- all -- all of those items if we can do
15 that, Tom.
16 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
17 There's a second to the motion, then --
18 MS. ARDUIN: Second.
19 MR. HERNDON: There's a second from
20 Ms. Arduin.
21 MR. STRUHS: So all in favor?
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Aye.
23 MS. ARDUIN: Aye.
24 MR. STRUHS: Thank you very much.
25 MR. HERNDON: That completes the business
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September 12, 2000
1 of the Corporation. If there's a motion to
2 adjourn the Pollution Control Financing
3 Corporation, we'll be done for --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm not a member of the
5 Board, I guess, right?
6 MR. HERNDON: You're not a member of this
7 particular board, Governor.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Excellent.
9 MR. HERNDON: So if there's a motion to
10 adjourn --
11 TREASURER NELSON: Move to adjourn.
12 MR. HERNDON: Move to adjourn and --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
14 MR. HERNDON: And I know Mr. Struhs has
15 adjourned.
16 So -- so presumably that meets with his --
17 his stead.
18 And that completes both agendas, Governor.
19 And thank you for your patience.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Tom.
21 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
22 was concluded.)
23 * * *
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 27
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Florida Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 Item 2.
10 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 2 is the request
11 to transmit the Department of Law Enforcement's
12 budget for 2001-2002. And as I do that,
13 probably a couple of comments would be in
14 order.
15 What you have before you there today
16 represents the continuation of several
17 long-term projects that you've previously
18 endorsed as the head of the Department of Law
19 Enforcement, and a couple of select items that
20 are compliant with one of our guiding
21 principals, and that is the use of -- maximize
22 the use of technology as we deliver our public
23 safety services.
24 These items that are before you there
25 represent our best judgment of what we need to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 28
September 12, 2000
1 continue the success we've had in supporting
2 local law enforcement in the state of Florida
3 in making Florida a safer place.
4 Let me emphasize as well, that those items
5 are based in large measure upon some very
6 strong input from local law enforcement who are
7 our key enterprise partners in this effort.
8 Now, what you don't have before you,
9 Governor, and members of the Cabinet, is our
10 final product in complying with the legislative
11 budget instructions, which as you know, calls
12 for 1.6 -- or 1.5 percent identification of
13 positions, and positions that could possibly be
14 reduced, reprioritized, or redirected in your
15 organization to help support some of the issues
16 that we've laid out here.
17 Nor do you have the requirement in the
18 long-range planning process that's a matter of
19 law now, and the Governor's direction that we
20 identify the balance of 5 percent FTE and
21 dollars to make sure that we're prioritizing
22 everything we're spending in our budget,
23 including that in the -- in the base, toward
24 the priorities of -- of our effort here.
25 That's not finished for a couple of
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 29
September 12, 2000
1 reasons. The -- not the least of which again
2 is this continuing dialogue we're having with
3 local law enforcement. We're going to -- we
4 welcome this, as a matter of fact. It's not a
5 new endeavor for us in the Department. We've
6 done this for a number of years, and I think,
7 humbly, quite successfully.
8 But I want to make sure we don't have
9 unintended consequences as we go in those
10 80 program areas and start prioritizing. To
11 that end, we're having a lot of discussion,
12 continuing discussion with our -- with our
13 constituencies.
14 It's complicated a little bit more by the
15 fact that the Legislature this past session
16 picked to go first the Department of Law
17 Enforcement and the Department of Revenue in
18 the zero based budgeting exercise.
19 We have a product -- a product due to them,
20 and to the Governor's office, October 15th,
21 that lists all of our 80 major activity areas
22 that we have in our 248 million dollar budget.
23 And we prioritize and identify those
24 expenditures down to the dollar to get you and
25 the other policymakers in a position to -- to
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 30
September 12, 2000
1 make some priority choices about what we --
2 we're doing.
3 So I thought it important to bring you
4 these new issues that -- that we have at least
5 to this point in compliance with -- with what
6 at least my understanding of the law is, and
7 your capacity as the head of the Department of
8 Law Enforcement.
9 And as I mentioned to you in my letter of
10 September 1, as we finalize these areas for
11 reductions, and I hope redirections and
12 reexpenditure in the Department of Law
13 Enforcement, we'll certainly share those with
14 you, we'll agenda them, or what-- agenda them,
15 or whatever your pleasure might be, to -- to
16 bring this process in for a landing.
17 But at this point, I'm requesting
18 permission to transmit those new items with
19 those conditions to the Legislature.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there --
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a second?
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I
25 may --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 31
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I -- I certainly
3 appreciate Tim explaining his situation, which
4 I think is very important.
5 Of course, we have several other agencies
6 that we are responsible for. And I certainly
7 think it's important that we have these issues
8 brought out in the sunshine. I think it's --
9 it's good for what you're trying to do, and I
10 fully support that.
11 And it -- and it needs to be illuminated
12 properly. And so as we move forward, not just
13 with his department, but with the other
14 departments we are collectively responsible
15 for, I think those issues need to be agendaed,
16 and -- and properly brought before the Governor
17 and the Cabinet.
18 So I second -- or certainly support the
19 motion. But I would like to amend it to ensure
20 that we have these discussions in the sunshine,
21 which is one of the great things about this
22 process that we are involved in.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
24 There's a motion and a second.
25 I'm abstaining my vote on this item in
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 32
September 12, 2000
1 order to make my own budget recommendation.
2 Without objection, other than my
3 abstention, the item is approved.
4 MR. MOORE: Governor, Item 3 --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we just go back to
6 the -- again -- I'm sorry.
7 When -- when would be appropriate to have
8 presentations -- the --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I do
10 know -- I do know that the Department of
11 Revenue is prepared to discuss it -- and I see
12 Jim here. I didn't know he was going to be
13 here this morning.
14 But I do know he's prepared to talk about
15 it in Panama City. I don't know about
16 Veterans' Affairs, I don't know about
17 Highway Safety. But --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: We can --
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I think sooner,
20 rather than later, because these are policy
21 issues that -- of course, core functions that
22 may be -- need to be addressed, and I think
23 need to be brought out in the sunshine.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, we'll -- we'll do
25 them progressively, starting -- if -- if
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 33
September 12, 2000
1 Director Zingale's ready to go in Panama City,
2 we'll -- we can start there, and -- and try to
3 complete them over the -- the next two or three
4 meetings.
5 Is that enough time?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah. That -- that
7 would do fine, as long as we get them out there
8 where we know what -- what's going on.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Are you including
11 Education in this?
12 I mean, do you want us to do it, too?
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I think
14 it's probably appropriate.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I mean, I don't
16 have any problem with that. I just need --
17 just need to know.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, the -- since
19 we are not meeting right now as the Board of
20 Education, I won't comment. But it's
21 probably -- the Board of Education, would
22 probably be interested in it also.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, when we get
24 to that one, I guess you can bring it up.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 34
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: You can do it in advance,
2 if you like.
3 No. We'll -- you know, it's the -- the
4 legislative budget requests will be out this
5 week. And your zero-based budgeting exercise
6 will be completed by October 15th. So it's
7 more than appropriate to discuss this and
8 receive input.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's -- it'll be public
11 already by next -- by the next Cabinet meeting.
12 MR. MOORE: With the understanding,
13 Governor, as you -- as you know, that some of
14 those things might change as we -- as we finish
15 that process with --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
17 MR. MOORE: -- your budget office, and with
18 the legislative staff on that ZBB exercise.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Right.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But, again,
22 you know, we have a responsibility,
23 for example, the Florida Department of Law
24 Enforcement, that there are a lot of
25 core programs that we have looked at -- I have
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 35
September 12, 2000
1 been looking at for over five years now.
2 And -- and -- and frankly have been pleased
3 with the way that all of them have done. But
4 FDLE has got a lean program. And -- and
5 something may have to give the -- in the
6 core program. Whether it's education, which he
7 has a fabulous education program, or whatever
8 it may be.
9 I -- I think we ought to be able to know
10 what it is, and -- and provide our guidance as
11 appropriate.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
13 This is a critically important discussion
14 because my guess is that this year -- this
15 year's budget won't have the luxury of the
16 abundance of revenue that came in from general
17 revenue sources, tobacco revenue -- it means a
18 little slimmer year.
19 And so this prioritization process will --
20 it's not an exercise. It's actually something
21 that --
22 MR. MOORE: Exactly.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in order to meet the
24 needs of the State, we're going to have to do.
25 So the more -- the more discussion about it,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 36
September 12, 2000
1 the more light shining on it, the better it is.
2 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor.
3 Item 3 deals with the presentation of the
4 Department's third reaccreditation status by
5 Mr. Sylvester Daughtry, who's the
6 Executive Director of the Commission on the
7 Accreditation of Law Enforcement Agencies.
8 You'll recall that several years ago, now
9 about ten years ago, FDLE, with your strong
10 support and leadership throughout the years,
11 was the first statewide investigative agency in
12 the country to be accredited. And we've
13 maintained that commitment over time, again
14 with your leadership and support.
15 And I'm very proud of that, and the men and
16 women in the organization who make that more
17 than just something on a plaque on a wall.
18 I'd like to ask Sylvester Daughtry to come
19 forward -- they already have -- along with our
20 Inspector General, Mike McHargue; and our
21 Senior Management Analyst, Adrienne Lucas, who
22 is -- was instrumental in this whole process.
23 Mr. Daughtry.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, Mr. Daughtry.
25 MR. DAUGHTRY: Thank you, Governor.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 37
September 12, 2000
1 Governor Bush, members of the Cabinet,
2 Commissioner Moore, members of the Florida
3 Department of Law Enforcement, ladies and
4 gentlemen, it is an honor and a privilege for
5 me as Executive Director of the Commission on
6 Accreditation for Law Enforcement agencies to
7 be here today to present the certificate of
8 reaccreditation to the Florida Department of
9 Law Enforcement.
10 I bring you greetings from our Commission,
11 who is chaired by Chief Bill Miller of Elgin,
12 Illinois. We have a 21-member governing body.
13 And I am happy to announce, and to remind you,
14 that your Commissioner, Commissioner Tim Moore,
15 is one of those 21 members.
16 The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
17 was initially accredited in 1990. And this
18 represents, as he indicated, the second time
19 they've been reaccredited since their initial
20 accreditation.
21 In April of this year, we sent a team of
22 professionals into the Department to do what we
23 call an on-site review. These are
24 law enforcement professionals from outside the
25 state of Florida.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 38
September 12, 2000
1 And their collective opinion is that the
2 Department is in excellent shape, managed and
3 operated quite well. They were 308 of our
4 standards that applied to the Florida
5 Department of Law Enforcement.
6 And of that 308, 55 were what we call other
7 than mandatory standards, meaning that the
8 Department could elect to not comply with
9 20 percent of those other than mandatory
10 standards.
11 And I'm happy to report to you that your
12 Department complied with each and every
13 standard that was applicable to them, not
14 exercising their 20 percent option.
15 The assessors found that you have several
16 programs here that are worthy of mentioning,
17 and should be held out for examples for other
18 law enforcement agencies.
19 Your Criminal Justice Net that shares
20 information with other law enforcement and
21 criminal justice practitioners, DNA technology
22 is certainly -- is one of the leading programs,
23 and certainly ranked among the best in the
24 country.
25 Leadership training center.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 39
September 12, 2000
1 Their final quote was: The performance in
2 all categories of concern are excellent.
3 And if I might end up by saying, Governor,
4 that the State of Florida is a leader in this
5 professionalism of law enforcement agencies.
6 Over 50 agencies in your state are accredited
7 by the Commission on Accreditation for
8 Law Enforcement agencies, and we're happy that
9 they are leading the way for other states.
10 And we now have an initiative that we hope
11 to begin very soon, working with the Florida
12 Commission on Accreditation in an alliance.
13 So, Mr. Governor, we're happy to be here to
14 present this certificate.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mr. Daughtry.
16 You going to bring it up? Should we do
17 a --
18 MR. MOORE: We'll bring it up.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's take --
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: All right.
21 (Discussion off the record.)
22 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
23 Agenda was concluded.)
24 * * *
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 40
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Item 2.
8 DR. ZINGALE: Governor, with your
9 permission, I'd like to give a quick status
10 report on the unemployment comp transfer.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Please.
12 DR. ZINGALE: The program, unemployment
13 comp, as you all know, October 1 will be
14 transferred to the Florida Department of
15 Revenue. That's a couple of months ahead of
16 schedule.
17 They had 444 authorized FTE. We have
18 advertised 360, and as of late last night, we
19 have offered 240 jobs so far, with 19 more days
20 to go in the month to those employees. So
21 240 are in the GTA program.
22 Today we will be initiating with the
23 Department of Labor a procedure to identify who
24 specifically is remaining out of those 135.
25 Some of those will have retired, some of those
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 41
September 12, 2000
1 will have gotten jobs in other agencies. We
2 think a few of them actually have gotten jobs
3 in our Child Support Enforcement Program.
4 So we will be working intensively this week
5 to try to find out specifically who hasn't
6 matched up and been offered a job in Revenue;
7 and then those people, we will work an
8 individual at a time to try to figure out
9 whether we can fit them in, or whether we can
10 work with another State agency.
11 We have hopes that, in the remaining
12 19 more days this month before that transfer
13 takes place, we will be successful in placing
14 all of those employees in some employment.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jim, I really appreciate
16 your hard work on this. And this is a good
17 example of how -- how, if we work together as a
18 team, the -- the changes brought about by
19 reorganizations can be minimal, or not at all.
20 I mean, we'll -- we'll -- this is a good test
21 case on -- on how this works.
22 But as I understand it, can you -- can you
23 tell me how many people were working in the
24 function --
25 DR. ZINGALE: Well, 444 were authorized.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 42
September 12, 2000
1 Now, they haven't been -- fully filled those
2 positions in quite some time. We --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: And how many will you --
4 DR. ZINGALE: Three hundred and six.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: You'll have 306 authorized?
6 DR. ZINGALE: And 306 we will be filling.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: So -- and -- and you're
8 confident that you'll be able to do this even
9 more efficiently --
10 DR. ZINGALE: And we're blending a bureau
11 into business process structure. We've got a
12 lot more automation than they do. We already
13 have taxes that are covering a similar type of
14 taxpayers.
15 So --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: So that's about a 20 --
17 it's more than a 25 percent cut in the numbers
18 of people working on a particular service for
19 government, and you've placed them at least --
20 I'd like for you to do it to your -- to my
21 fellow Cabinet members, that you will do it
22 more effectively and efficiently than it was
23 being done before, with 25 percent fewer
24 people.
25 DR. ZINGALE: Well, and that's not
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 43
September 12, 2000
1 artificial. We went business process at the
2 time. This is an example. You know, they had
3 stand-alone auditors doing, you know, the
4 audit. We've already had corporate auditors in
5 the same business, we would expand the audit by
6 about an hour-and-a-half, we could expand
7 coverage with substantially fewer people to
8 perform just that function.
9 Our front-end automation, as you all know,
10 is some of the best in the country. We will
11 bring them in under that new environment.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: And then if -- if you could
13 come back in maybe a month and give us an
14 update on the -- where -- what has happened to
15 the -- the people in the Department of Labor
16 that were working in this function, how many
17 ended up actually working at the Department of
18 Revenue, how many went to other agencies, how
19 many retired, it would be I think a good -- I'd
20 like to see it. I know the Cabinet members
21 would like to see how this works.
22 It -- it may lessen some fears that can be
23 stoked quite easily by looking at this in a --
24 in a static kind of way.
25 So I -- I appreciate what you're doing.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 44
September 12, 2000
1 And -- and you've responded -- I don't know if
2 my fellow Cabinet members know that, at first,
3 this was to be done by January 15th I believe,
4 or something like that. And I asked the
5 why-not question, and Zingale delivered.
6 So you -- you sped up the process, and
7 you've done a great job.
8 MR. ZINGALE: Well, we've got a group of
9 people -- not that I want to toot their horn
10 too much -- but --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, go ahead.
12 DR. ZINGALE: -- 306 FTE we advertised, we
13 had 7,600 applications for those 306 jobs. So
14 the staff had to work seven days a week for
15 two days to review all the packages, schedule
16 the interviews, and get that done to be able to
17 hire that 240.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Seven days a week
19 in two days; is that what you said?
20 DR. ZINGALE: Seven days a week full days.
21 They were --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Full days.
23 DR. ZINGALE: -- working till late nights
24 to get there. It was quite an effort on their
25 part. But -- a ways to go yet.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 45
September 12, 2000
1 And the 90 days to fully get this program
2 up and running and totally transferred over
3 will not be easy. It'll be a lot of another
4 long nights, and difficult process to go
5 through.
6 We will be bringing our LBR and our plan to
7 the next Cabinet meeting in Panama City. We'll
8 give you your first quarter status report on
9 the ad valorem implementation that we promised
10 in October, which will be that date.
11 We have two Cabinet -- two requests for
12 approval of amendments for two child support
13 enforcement rules. These are small.
14 One deals with the procedures dealing with
15 consumer reporting agencies and our sharing of
16 information.
17 The other deals with the payment recovery
18 process we have when a disbursement issues in
19 error to a child support enforcement family.
20 Request approval.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 46
September 12, 2000
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Jim.
4 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 * * *
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 47
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1 is minutes of the
3 meetings of June 26th and July 11th.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item 2.
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is a district charter
10 proposal for Hillsborough County. Betty Coxe
11 will introduce the Hillsborough County --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Beautiful Betty.
13 MS. COXE: Good morning, sir.
14 Governor, members of the State Board, it's
15 a pleasure to be with you today. It's an
16 exciting day for us in education. We're here
17 today to present to you --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Every day's --
19 MS. COXE: -- for your --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- exciting in education,
21 Betty.
22 MS. COXE: That's right.
23 We're here today to present to you for your
24 consideration our second statewide charter
25 school district proposal. And we'd like to
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 48
September 12, 2000
1 take just a second to comment about it a little
2 bit.
3 It has been in development for several
4 months now. And our compliments go to the
5 Hillsborough County School District for the
6 completion of a wonderful product.
7 This particular item seeks your approval of
8 a charter school district proposal from the
9 Hillsborough County public schools, and to
10 enter into a performance contract with them.
11 This plan seeks to increase student
12 achievement by calling for 85 percent of the
13 schools in Hillsborough County to earn a grade
14 of A or B, and for no school in
15 Hillsborough County to earn a grade less than C
16 within three years.
17 Performance goals pursued progressively
18 higher results on State and national
19 assessments, and deal with all student
20 populations. They also address teacher
21 quality, student conduct, and school
22 flexibility.
23 In fact, one of the exciting components of
24 the Hillsborough plan is a promise to have a
25 minimum of six conversion charter schools
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 49
September 12, 2000
1 within three years. So we're really looking
2 heavily in this particular pilot into the
3 flexibility factor.
4 To assist the District in meeting these
5 goals, perceived regulatory barriers have been
6 specifically identified, and the District will
7 receive exemption, with your permission, from
8 these laws and rules.
9 The District will annually report to you
10 its progress.
11 And without further adieu, I'd like to
12 bring up now Superintendent of Schools for
13 Hillsborough County, Dr. Earl Lennard, who's
14 going to tell you a little bit more about the
15 plan and its specifics.
16 And congratulations to Hillsborough County
17 for a great job.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is the same
19 Dr. Lennard who didn't get a 5 percent pay cut
20 this year.
21 MS. COXE: That's --
22 DR. LENNARD: Right.
23 MS. COXE: -- right.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But he's always
25 willing in case somebody slips.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 50
September 12, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: They --
2 DR. LENNARD: My family sure is happy.
3 If I could, Governor, members of the
4 Cabinet, I would like to introduce our
5 School Board Chairman,
6 Mrs. Carolyn Bricklemyer.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
8 MS. BRICKLEMYER: We're a team.
9 Good morning.
10 My name is Carolyn Bricklemyer, and I'm
11 presently the Chairman of the
12 Hillsborough County School Board, and it's a
13 privilege to be here with you today.
14 I bring greetings from our School Board,
15 and we want to thank you for this opportunity.
16 We're stepping out into new ground, and we're
17 aware of that. We're doing this willingly, a
18 little bit nervous about it, as I'm sure you
19 are, and excited as well.
20 You're not nervous, because you're not
21 having to do it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
23 MS. BRICKLEMYER: I don't know if you
24 recall, but a couple of years ago, you were in
25 Hillsborough County at an elementary school,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 51
September 12, 2000
1 and a couple of School Board members had a
2 conversation with you about what if a charter
3 school district. And here we are today.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
5 MS. BRICKLEMYER: Our Board has been
6 working very hard to make it possible for all
7 students to achieve their academic success. We
8 are also working to improve our budgeting
9 process, and are taking steps to link our
10 expenditures to our programs in an effort to
11 determine the most cost-effective approaches to
12 meeting our goals.
13 We have begun implementation of our most
14 recent three-year strategic plan. The goals
15 and strategies in that plan are linked to the
16 proposal for the charter district and the terms
17 of the proposed contract.
18 We think that the benefits of becoming a
19 charter district will greatly assist our
20 District as we implement our strategic plan.
21 We want to thank you again for your
22 consideration of our proposal and your
23 assistance and support of the
24 Hillsborough County School District.
25 And with that, I will give you Dr. Lennard,
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1 who will give you more details of our plan.
2 Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
4 DR. LENNARD: Please, Governor, members of
5 the Cabinet, on behalf of the School Board, and
6 you heard Mrs. Bricklemyer, our Chair, I want
7 to thank you for this opportunity, because,
8 indeed, Hillsborough County thinks it is an
9 exciting opportunity.
10 And we've been working continuously with
11 your staff, and our staff in
12 Hillsborough County, to answer any of the
13 questions that may have come up, because as
14 you know, we've been in this process for a
15 length of time now. And -- and that now has
16 come to conclusion.
17 And also would like to thank Volusia County
18 for their cooperative spirit and the sharing of
19 information in development of the Volusia and
20 the Hillsborough plan.
21 We focus on priorities to improve academic
22 achievement, enhance, and ensure our District's
23 future workforce, and the academic achievement
24 of our students specifically. We believe that
25 this District charter plan will allow us to
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1 continue doing that. And our students continue
2 to consistently score above the national and
3 the State average. And we believe that this
4 will help us to focus even greater results in
5 those areas.
6 Our School Board took major steps toward
7 becoming more performance focused when, in
8 1996-97, they adopted specific grade level,
9 student performance standards, and grade level
10 benchmarks.
11 At that time, we increased graduation
12 requirements above those mandated by the State,
13 and eliminated social promotion by requiring
14 the attainment of the benchmarks as a condition
15 of promotion.
16 The implementation of the A+ plan --
17 A+ plan after the 1999 legislation was a
18 relatively easy transition for Hillsborough
19 since we had already started along those lines
20 of accountability and performance driven
21 measurements.
22 Recent impressive improvements in the
23 grades achieved by our schools and the absence
24 of any F graded schools, despite the
25 demographic prediction that some of our schools
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1 should have been F schools -- and we are very
2 thankful for that -- this demonstrates the
3 commitment of the District to the high academic
4 standards and focus on student achievement that
5 are features of the total commitment of the --
6 of our State Department of Education, as well
7 as this Cabinet.
8 We first discussed, as Mrs. Bricklemyer
9 said, this concept with the Governor at one of
10 our local elementary schools, and the concept
11 eventually found its way into law.
12 And we see the charter school district
13 aiding us and giving us more tools, one more
14 tool for the District improvement. But we
15 recognize, it alone will not carry us to the
16 level we seek as the premier school district in
17 the nation.
18 It is, however, a concept that promises to
19 assist us along that --
20 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
21 room.)
22 DR. LENNARD: -- along that way.
23 And we believe that -- that becoming a
24 charter school district offers the following
25 features and benefits to our students, and to
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1 the taxpayers of the state of Florida, and the
2 Hillsborough County School District.
3 Our proposed charter school contract
4 increases our flexibility to design and
5 implement instructional programs that support
6 high student achievement, proposed waivers in
7 elements of the management plan increase our
8 flexibility to define high school credits,
9 tailor middle school student programs of study,
10 adopt and acquire instructional materials, and
11 design and implement student program planning
12 and placement tools in ways that will increase
13 individual attention, and improve student
14 achievement.
15 Finally, we know that this approach takes
16 both the School Board of Hillsborough County,
17 and the State Board of Education into
18 unexplored territory. Neither of us can
19 guarantee that this journey will produce
20 greater improvements than we would have
21 achieved had we retained the more traditional
22 approach.
23 But these provisions provide appropriate
24 checks and balances and safety nets to protect
25 the interests, and assure us the cooperation of
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1 the State Board of Education, and the
2 School District in making this happen.
3 So once again, we have an opportunity today
4 to forge that new partnership, and we in
5 Hillsborough County thank you for considering
6 us as a charter district.
7 We are now open to any questions that
8 members of the Cabinet may have.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you describe some of
10 the rules that have been waived, or you don't
11 have to comply with from the State, whatever
12 that term is?
13 DR. LENNARD: Some of the things that we
14 have asked to be released from include various
15 State statutes, including some of the ways in
16 which we certify teachers and some of the ways
17 in which we deal with the management of our
18 HRMD plan. We're asking that we be allowed
19 more flexibility in that area, and a waiver for
20 that.
21 We're also asking for additional waivers in
22 the securing of instructional materials, the
23 manner in which we do that, and the flexibility
24 for those instructional materials, as well as
25 also in our middle school program, to tailor
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1 the middle school course of study so that it
2 more directly focuses on what we believe in
3 Hillsborough County is -- is needed by our
4 middle school youngsters.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And let -- let me
6 mention that I want to especially thank the
7 Secretary of State for participating and going
8 over this prior to attending here, and
9 contributing to the betterment of this entire
10 plan.
11 And you know everybody got this, and looked
12 at it, but they -- she and her office really
13 gave us some good input.
14 So I want to thank them for that.
15 DR. LENNARD: We would -- I would like to
16 also thank the -- each of your staff members.
17 You know, our folks met with them last week --
18 or have been meeting with them continuously for
19 a number of months now. And they've been very
20 helpful. Some very tough questions. But
21 they've been very helpful --
22 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
23 room.)
24 DR. LENNARD: -- and we appreciate that
25 very much.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
2 Is there a motion for approval?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Thank you very much, Madam Chairman,
8 thank you -- Chairwoman, Chairperson, thank you
9 for coming. Good luck. Let us know how we can
10 help.
11 DR. LENNARD: Thank you.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to
13 withdraw Number 3, Governor.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion to
15 withdraw?
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's withdrawn.
21 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is adoption of the
22 Twentieth Supplemental Authorizing Resolution
23 to the Master Authorizing Resolution adopted on
24 July 21st, 1992, authorizing the issuance of
25 not exceeding four hundred and twenty-eight
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1 million three hundred thousand dollar State of
2 Florida, Full Faith and Credit, State Board of
3 Education, PECO Bo-- 2000 series, and sale
4 thereof.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to approve.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's a pretty
8 fast way of spending four hundred and twenty --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- million bucks.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's breathtaking.
12 Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 MR. PIERSON: Item 5 is deferred until
15 September 26th.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 The motion is deferred --
20 MR. PIERSON: Item --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- without objection.
22 MR. PIERSON: Item 6 is an amendment to
23 Rule 6A-1.0014, Comprehensive Management
24 Information System.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. PIERSON: Item 7 is a new rule,
5 6A-6.09091, Accommodations of the Statewide
6 Assessment Program Instruments and Procedures
7 for Limited English Proficient Students.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can we -- can you describe
11 what this is for me?
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This -- the rule
13 establishes procedures whereby appropriate
14 accommodations may be made for limited English
15 proficient students who are participating in
16 statewide assessment testing programs.
17 Procedures define the type of accommodations
18 that may be provided for each student.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are these --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The LEP students.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- high standards, low
22 standards; are we lowering, highering, raising?
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's
24 accommodations for them to be able to
25 participate in this -- in the FCAT, if -- if
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1 they need it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Shouldn't change
4 the standards any.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. There's a motion and
6 a second.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item --
9 MR. PIERSON: Item 8 is an amendment to
10 Rule 6A-10.044, residency for tuition purposes.
11 And we have a speaker, Vincent Tome,
12 Miami-Dade Community College has asked to speak
13 on the rule.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome.
15 MR. TOME: Thank you.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Before -- I'll --
17 let -- I'll move the items before he speaks, so
18 it'll at least be on the table.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Please. Welcome.
22 MR. TOME: Governor, members of the
23 Cabinet, I bring you greetings from Miami-Dade
24 Community College and, Governor, from your
25 hometown.
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1 I just want to speak briefly --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher's
3 hometown, too.
4 MR. TOME: Commissioner Gallagher's
5 hometown as well.
6 I want to speak briefly to the importance
7 of -- of this rule to south Florida in
8 particular. And I'll start by mentioning that
9 when we started talking about making changes in
10 this rule, one of our major backers was the
11 Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce.
12 Because they understood that this rule
13 is -- it's about economic development. And
14 they understand that a less educated work
15 force, especially in south Florida, means a
16 less productive work force.
17 And what this -- what this rule will
18 address will be several problems that caused us
19 to deny in-state tuition to immigrants who have
20 lived here for many years, have paid State and
21 Federal taxes, and they've often graduated at
22 the top of their class. But when it comes time
23 to apply for a state community college or a
24 state university, under the rule, because it's
25 vague or because it's unclear, we often have to
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1 charge them out-of-state tuition.
2 And for them, the choice is not in-state
3 tuition, versus out-of-state tuition; for them
4 the choice is either in-state tuition, or not
5 enroll at all.
6 So we have a huge class of -- of immigrants
7 who have been living here for -- for many years
8 and call Florida home, who want to be
9 productive, and can be more productive if they
10 get a chance at higher education.
11 And I -- I urge you to adopt this rule for
12 economic development, and for economic
13 opportunity.
14 Thank you for your time.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
16 Any discussion?
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor?
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah, Katherine.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I support the -- this
20 change. I know that there are economic
21 consequences with the budget, too, that we'll
22 have to take a look at.
23 But as Florida continues to be this gateway
24 between the Americas, and -- and certainly a
25 launching place for other nations to -- to use
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1 as an economic base in these markets, I think
2 it's really crucial in terms of our workforce
3 and technology, all the opportunities that we
4 have, for this kind of expansion.
5 And it's -- it's a -- it's a good rule,
6 it's important, and I think it's going to --
7 it's a -- a rule that's long due, to make sure
8 that we can ensure the -- the proper education,
9 encourage these -- these people to participate
10 in our process, learn more not only about the
11 education issues, but democracy, and I think
12 hopefully export some of those great ideas back
13 to their countries of origin.
14 Thanks.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
16 There's a motion and a second.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Thank you.
19 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
20 concluded.)
21 * * *
22
23
24
25
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes for June 26 and July 11th meetings.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, the minutes are
7 approved.
8 Item 2.
9 MR. STRUHS: Item 2, ladies and gentlemen,
10 is a discussion item. There's no decision to
11 be made today.
12 But it was recommended that we bring in
13 representatives from the Fish and Wildlife
14 Conservation Commission to give you an update
15 on the Manatee Protection Plans for the
16 13 coastal counties that are required to have
17 them.
18 We're fortunate this morning to have
19 Dr. Allan Egbert here. And he's also brought
20 along some of his manatee staff.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: These are manatees that are
22 actually part of the staff?
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Manatee staff.
24 MR. STRUHS: These are -- these are staff
25 who are experts on manatees.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
2 DR. EGBERT: Actually, Governor, we're
3 counting them every chance we get as part of
4 the manatee population.
5 Governor, members of the Cabinet,
6 good morning. Thank you for having us.
7 We don't intend to take up too much of your
8 time this morning, but we do appreciate the
9 opportunity to talk to you about the status of
10 manatee protection plans.
11 And to do that, I'm going to do a typical,
12 bureaucratic thing, and hand it off to a person
13 who knows a lot more about the issue than I
14 am -- than I do.
15 But before I do, let me please acknowledge
16 that the Governor's leadership on manatee
17 protection plan development has significantly
18 ramped up interest in the subject.
19 We now have one proposed plan in hand, we
20 know that another one is on the way, and there
21 are also quite a number in the process of being
22 developed.
23 I should also take this opportunity to tell
24 you that, despite what some of you may have
25 read or heard in some media outlets, my
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1 Commission is not considering, nor are they
2 even contemplating, nor have they even
3 discussed the possibility of down listing or
4 delisting Florida manatees, or changing in any
5 way the status.
6 That erroneous report came about apparently
7 as a result of a misunderstanding of a
8 discussion the Commission was having of
9 criteria that would be necessary for manatee
10 change in status to even be considered.
11 In fact, it involved a discussion of a
12 manatee -- redraft of a manatee recovery plan
13 being contemplated by the U.S. Fish and
14 Wildlife Service, of which we are members.
15 What this points out is that manatee issues
16 are very sensitive. We knew that. We learned
17 a lesson, and we intend to be more careful in
18 the future and make sure that there is no
19 misunderstanding.
20 And I do apologize for any --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: At this point --
22 DR. EGBERT: -- heavy --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- has there been a -- a
24 communication with the newspaper that --
25 DR. EGBERT: With every --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- misunderstood?
2 DR. EGBERT: Yes, sir. With every
3 newspaper we can -- we can reach.
4 We tried -- we -- we issued a -- tried to
5 issue a correction the next day. Frankly, we
6 were unaware of it until we saw the headlines
7 the next morning that that came out that way.
8 And we do apologize for that -- any
9 problems that might have created with anybody.
10 We -- we will try to be more careful in the
11 future and be more cautious.
12 With that preamble, if I may, I'd like to
13 introduce to you Mr. Brad Hartman, who's the
14 Director of our Office of Information -- of
15 Environmental Services -- sorry -- which
16 includes the Bureau of Protected Species, which
17 includes manatees.
18 Brad will get you up-to-date on where we
19 are with manatee protection plans.
20 And thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, sir.
22 MR. HARTMAN: Governor Bush, members of the
23 Cabinet, this is going to be a brief overview
24 on manatee protection plans, where we are, and
25 where the different counties are at this time.
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1 Manatee protection plans were created by
2 Governor and Cabinet action in 1989 that
3 endorsed and approved a -- a wide array of --
4 of conservation recommendations by the staff of
5 the DNR.
6 It's oriented towards trying to reduce boat
7 mortality by actions of local government by the
8 County. Thirteen counties were identified in
9 1989.
10 It's a holistic approach, and -- and looks
11 at actions that would have both a short-term
12 and immediate benefit to manatees, and also
13 those actions that have a much longer term,
14 less immediate benefit to manatees.
15 These manatee protection plans have a
16 number of different components. They have
17 about four major components. One of the -- one
18 of the more important ones is education.
19 Almost every Manatee Protection Plan looks hard
20 at what the educational opportunities are in
21 that county, both in the school system, and on
22 the dock, so to speak, in trying to get signs
23 and -- and information out to the boaters.
24 Education is -- is -- tends not to be
25 highly controversial.
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1 We also are able to -- to support education
2 by the local governments with our advisory
3 council on environmental education grant
4 program. And the education component has been
5 a -- a pretty successful element.
6 A second element of manatee protection
7 plans is law enforcement. Local governments
8 have a considerable opportunity to protect
9 manatees through their own water patrol and
10 law enforcement, and many of the -- of the
11 counties have taken advantage of that
12 opportunity.
13 A third and more controversial element of
14 the manatee protection plans is the creation of
15 manatee boat speed zones, regulations to define
16 how fast and -- and what places boats can
17 travel.
18 This has a statutory basis under 370.12,
19 which allows both the local government and the
20 FWC to pass regulations on boat speed.
21 All 13 counties that are -- that we
22 identified back in 1989, which all identified,
23 have -- have speed zones at this time. In all
24 cases, there are speed zones by the State of
25 Florida, the old DEP, and now the FWC, and in
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1 many of these cases, there are ordinances by
2 the local governments in place regulating boat
3 speed for the sake of manatees.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: So can I just ask a
5 question?
6 MR. HARTMAN: Yes.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm -- I'm -- as you might
8 imagine, I'm getting a little bit of -- I'm
9 getting a few e-mails and letters regarding
10 this.
11 MR. HARTMAN: I'm -- I'm aware of that.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: The -- the -- the boat
13 speed regulation is already in place,
14 irrespective of whether or not these manatee
15 protection plans have been completed?
16 MR. HARTMAN: They are independent. Yes.
17 We --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: And they're -- and they're
19 all in existence right now?
20 MR. HARTMAN: There are -- there are all --
21 there are 13 -- all 13 counties have speed
22 zones at this time created by the State; and in
23 some cases --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: So --
25 MR. HARTMAN: -- also created by that
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1 government.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- so with the creation of
3 a -- of a -- an approved Manatee Protection
4 Plan, would there necessarily be increases in
5 areas that -- where -- where boats would have
6 to slow down?
7 Or that's already in place, and it doesn't
8 require any additional --
9 MR. HARTMAN: They're in place. Now --
10 now, we as a State agency are constantly
11 reviewing those zones to see if they need
12 updating and improving. Local governments go
13 through the same process.
14 A Manatee Protection Plan is -- is not
15 going to provide major breakthroughs in --
16 in -- in the boat speed zones on its own. The
17 major area where the manatee protection plans
18 are going to have an effect is in the boat
19 facility siting area, which I'll be getting to.
20 In fact, one of the problems with trying to
21 do your boat speed zone rules through the local
22 government process, through the MPP, is that
23 these are often very contentious, difficult
24 issues; and it often gets tangled up with the
25 development of the boating facility site plans,
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1 which are one of the key elements of -- of
2 these MPPs.
3 With that, let me just get into the
4 boating -- the boat facility siting component.
5 The idea here is to try to get the local
6 government to plan where they want to put
7 their -- their marinas and their boat ramps,
8 and where they want to expand those facilities,
9 and put them in places that will have the least
10 impact to manatees that are either traveling
11 through an area, or feeding in an area.
12 This is a very difficult area to resolve
13 sometime. As you might imagine, there's a lot
14 of money involved, a lot of -- a lot of
15 people's interest and their land are involved.
16 And it's a -- it -- it is not a -- it's not as
17 easy to develop an acceptable plan to all
18 parties.
19 We do not have a statutory basis for
20 creating the -- the -- the marina siting
21 element or the boating facility siting element.
22 And this has pretty well forced us to try to
23 work on a consensus-building approach in
24 developing this element of manatee protection
25 plans.
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1 Consensus-building sometimes works, and
2 sometimes it doesn't when things get a little
3 too controversial.
4 As a result of the way we've tried to work
5 with each county and -- and look at each county
6 differently, and -- and take a look at its own
7 peculiar situations, and -- and environment,
8 the boating facility siting plans differ in
9 their format and the way they function from
10 county to county.
11 And we see no problem with that general
12 approach in trying to fit the -- the needs of
13 the County and the needs of the manatee, and --
14 and not get locked into a -- a format that we
15 have to live by.
16 I -- it was the intent I believe in 1989
17 that, when a county develops its Boating
18 Facility Siting Plan, and gets it approved,
19 that it incorporate these into its own actions,
20 either through the Comp Plan. And one of the
21 counties that has had -- had an approved
22 Manatee Protection Plan just directly and --
23 took their plan and put it into the Comp Plan.
24 The other counties that have had their
25 man-- their Manatee Protection Plans approved,
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1 have tended to implement those through their
2 codes and through their ordinances.
3 One of the problems that counties face in
4 developing the -- the plan is -- is that there
5 are other cities and other areas within the
6 county that the County doesn't have direct
7 authority over. That requires some more of
8 this consensus-building I mentioned before.
9 That's a little background of just what the
10 manatee plans are. Here's -- here's how we
11 stand so far. Out of the 13 counties that
12 originally got this charge, four of these
13 counties have had -- have had manatee
14 protection plans approved with all the -- all
15 the elements. That's Dade, Collier, Citrus,
16 and Duval County.
17 We have two more that are kind of cl--
18 getting -- getting close. We're not sure
19 exactly how close. We've received a Manatee
20 Protection Plan proposal from Indian River
21 County. Initial staff review of it, it looks
22 pretty favorable. So we'll be trying to come
23 up with an evaluation and an approval of that
24 within the next couple of weeks.
25 We've also received a proposed Manatee
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1 Protection Plan from Volusia County, or -- or
2 we're -- we think we're going to receive it in
3 the next week or so. They approved it at their
4 meeting.
5 This will bring up -- this one will not
6 have a Boating Facility Siting Plan in it.
7 We're going to have to try to work with
8 Volusia County on that.
9 The remaining seven counties don't have
10 something to us, or -- or on the -- or in the
11 mail. But I want to just go briefly through
12 some of those counties, and -- and try to tell
13 you where they are.
14 Brevard County has been one of the most
15 difficult counties we've had in trying to
16 develop manatee protection plans. There's been
17 an ongoing effort for -- for many years of
18 trying to come up with this.
19 The problems seem to be this -- both the
20 combination of the speed zone and the Boating
21 Facility Siting Plan. The education,
22 law enforcement, all that goes pretty smoothly.
23 The -- Brevard County submitted plans to
24 the DEP back in '96 and '97 that has never
25 gotten approval, and has never quite worked out
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1 all the details. And they've been meeting with
2 the DEP and now the FWC regularly, right up
3 almost to present.
4 We suggested recently that they not do a
5 boating speed zone component in order to focus
6 their attention on Boating Facility Siting
7 Plan. We're -- we're in the process now of
8 reviewing Brevard County's --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sir, I thought you said
10 that there was -- all of these counties had
11 boating speed zones in place. So why would you
12 ask them to do it again?
13 MR. HARTMAN: We are not. In fact, I'm
14 asking them to -- let's -- let's let that one
15 lie, let's move on with other elements because
16 it is in place, and the State is -- is now
17 reviewing those regulations to see if they need
18 any adjusting.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Since 1996?
20 MR. HARTMAN: Since -- that's correct.
21 They -- they have done some --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's --
23 MR. HARTMAN: -- rulemaking --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- incredible.
25 MR. HARTMAN: -- back in 1992. And their
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1 latest revision was in 1998 on a small area.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
3 MR. HARTMAN: Broward County, back in 1992,
4 had a -- had a proposal they submitted to DEP.
5 But Broward County did not include a Boating
6 Facility Siting Plan. Again, this is a
7 difficult area to try to get hammered out.
8 We -- we've had indications of interest
9 from Broward County to -- to get back on track
10 and pursue that boating facility plan.
11 Lee County -- Lee County has been active in
12 manatee conservation, but they have not
13 developed an MPP at this time.
14 They did do some shoreline, parcel, and
15 marina facility identification work back in
16 1995. And we currently have a grant to them
17 from a legislative appropriation for that
18 purpose to try to update that, redo the --
19 their survey and their analysis of the marina
20 situation, and try to -- try to get the Boating
21 Facility Siting Plan completed.
22 In Martin County, we've had a lot of
23 trouble because of high staff turnover, made
24 the development of an MPP difficult.
25 However, in the last year, we've had
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1 renewed interest from Martin County. And in
2 February of this year, we also gave them a
3 grant to try to develop this Boating Facility
4 Siting Plan.
5 That report will be due in -- is due in
6 December. We hope to give them another grant
7 for next year to finish this off and get us a
8 final Boating Facility Siting Plan by
9 December 2001.
10 Palm Beach County, there was a lot of work
11 done on identifying locations of suitable
12 marinas, a lot of work done on identifying
13 grass beds. However, it never jelled, there
14 never was a proposal to the DEP or the FWC on
15 an actual MPP that had -- on an actual
16 protection plan that had this Boating Facility
17 Siting element.
18 Sarasota County, another county that has a
19 reasonably active manatee conservation program,
20 but very little work has been done on the MPPs.
21 I don't have very much more on that.
22 In St. Lucie County, the last of the 13,
23 this -- also this February, we -- we gave them
24 a grant to work through the Treasure Coast
25 Regional Planning Council, analyze the marina
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1 situation in their county, and the boat ramp
2 situation, and come back with a report this
3 December.
4 Again, like Martin, we hope to extend their
5 grant for next year with the idea of completing
6 that Boating Facility Plan.
7 That's a -- that concludes the summary
8 of -- of where we are with the different
9 counties and with the program.
10 I'd certainly be glad to answer any
11 questions.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
14 In terms of the MPP, would you explain to
15 me one more time, because I -- I see that you
16 have a separate marina siting study, the
17 boating activity study, and then the manatee
18 protection rules that -- that everyone has
19 adopted.
20 And if the Manatee Protection Plan doesn't
21 include the speed zones or law enforcement
22 issues, those kinds of things, because that's
23 all handled locally, what exactly does the
24 Manatee Protection Plan do?
25 Because I -- it says in the book, siting
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1 plan, that that's when you look more at the
2 docks and the interaction of manatees.
3 So can you tell me specifically what the
4 Manatee Protection Plan covers.
5 MR. HARTMAN: Okay. It -- it's a -- it's a
6 product of a local government, first of all --
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
8 MR. HARTMAN: -- on how they want to run
9 their county with regard to manatees in the
10 areas of education; law enforcement; boat speed
11 zones; and most importantly, boating facility
12 siting, which means where to put the marinas
13 and where to put the -- the docks and the boat
14 ramps.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. All right. But
16 you said also, in addition to that, that
17 already the local and state governments already
18 have taken care of the -- the law enforcement
19 and the speed zones, whether they have the
20 manatee plan or not; is that --
21 MR. HARTMAN: The big --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- correct?
23 MR. HARTMAN: -- hang-up in all this is the
24 Boating Facility Siting Plans.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
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1 MR. HARTMAN: That's the area that's been
2 last to be developed in most of these counties,
3 and it's the area --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: And the most difficult.
5 MR. HARTMAN: It's the most difficult.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: The Boating Facility
7 Siting Plan, is that the same as the separate
8 Marina Siting Study?
9 MR. HARTMAN: That's correct.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: So those are just
11 synonymous -- synonymous with --
12 MR. HARTMAN: Correct.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: When you say there's no
14 statutory authority, what, basically the
15 State's role in this is right here?
16 MR. HARTMAN: That's correct. Yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees is the --
18 MR. HARTMAN: Is --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the place where we can
20 make a difference in accelerating or
21 decelerating any siting of marinas.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: But -- that was my
23 next -- that was my next question.
24 If -- if we -- we do have statutory
25 authority for the Manatee Protection Plan, and
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1 right now, you have us to help with regard to
2 the separate marina siting study, do you think
3 that -- are you trying -- are you pursuing
4 statutory authority through legislation that we
5 could move along so we could help assist in
6 terms of the separate marina siting study
7 issues?
8 MR. HARTMAN: We have been discussing that
9 with -- with folks, what kind of opportunities
10 will be there, whether or not there might be an
11 opportunity under some growth management --
12 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
13 MR. HARTMAN: -- language.
14 But at this point, we don't have anything
15 very definite we want to do. We're kind of --
16 kind of hold off until the -- the summit that
17 the Governor is proposing, and to give that a
18 little bit more thought.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: When I'm looking at
20 these different studies that -- that come from
21 the information from your office, is the -- is
22 the separate marina siting study, is that only
23 four out of nine counties have approved that
24 separate marina siting study.
25 Is that, in your opinion, one of the most
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1 important issues?
2 MR. HARTMAN: It, in my opinion, is clearly
3 the most important issue, because it's
4 completely in the hands of the local
5 government, and it's their plan.
6 When we go to speed zones, we can do it.
7 The State can do it. We don't -- it's -- it's
8 nice to work hand-in-hand with the counties,
9 but we don't absolutely need that.
10 The local government is the only one, at
11 this time, that can pass and create its own
12 plan for what it wants to do with marinas and
13 boat ramps.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: So -- one last question.
15 So from your perspective in terms of our
16 participation, and it is legislated about the
17 Manatee Protection Plan, would you like to see
18 us really focus on the separate marina siting
19 study, since that's one of the most important
20 components, and that's something where we can
21 directly react, which only -- again, only four
22 have -- have done that, which seems to be the
23 most difficult piece.
24 MR. HARTMAN: I think that would the -- the
25 logical area to focus. It's the most directly
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1 tied also to the Trustees' function of -- of
2 leasing submerged lands.
3 And I would propose that we -- we focus
4 almost exclusively on boat facility siting.
5 The rest of the plans seem to be working along
6 and -- okay. This is the area we need the
7 help.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments,
10 questions?
11 MR. HARTMAN: Thank you.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
13 We -- the -- for -- for those interested in
14 the -- the summit that we've proposed, the date
15 has been changed to October 19th. It's going
16 to be in Tallahassee.
17 MR. STRUHS: That -- that concludes the
18 presentation from the Fish and Wildlife
19 Conservation Commission.
20 And Colleen Castille would like to speak.
21 MS. CASTILLE: I'm sorry, Governor.
22 I -- I have to correct the record here.
23 The -- we do have -- the -- the local
24 governments do have authority in Chapter 163
25 for an optional element in their comprehensive
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1 plans for marina siting.
2 And -- and we're -- we're doing -- we're
3 looking at the statute right now to give you
4 the specific citation.
5 So there -- there -- I -- I've been looking
6 at this issue for two months now, and -- and
7 we've got -- the -- the local governments do
8 have that authority. I'll give you the
9 specific citation --
10 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
11 MS. CASTILLE: -- as soon as we find it.
12 MR. STRUHS: The question to the Board of
13 Trustees then is: Are you interested in -- in
14 hearing comments from some of the folks who
15 have come here today and are in the audience?
16 And if so, we might want to recommend
17 limiting that discussion in recognition of the
18 fact that on October 19th, the manatee summit
19 will offer a full day for a more detailed
20 discussion.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Yeah.
22 MR. STRUHS: Well, what's the pleasure of
23 the Trustees?
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Anybody have a pleasure?
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We may be better
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1 off doing it there than here.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- again on
3 the 19th.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. I -- I appreciate
5 the large interest in this. That's a good
6 sign.
7 But from my perspective, I'm -- I hope that
8 we can use the 19th and leading up to it to --
9 to build a consensus to -- for -- for an action
10 plan.
11 My -- I -- on the other hand, I always -- I
12 don't think I've ever shut off anybody that
13 wants to come talk. So --
14 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're going to hear it
16 again. I mean, it's going to be -- it may be
17 somewhat --
18 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- repetitive.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- a
21 non-action item. It's a --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. This is just
23 discussion.
24 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. It's just discussion.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's true.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you want to
2 speak, here it is.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead. Let's do it.
4 Let's just be brief.
5 MR. ROSE: Yes, sir.
6 Well, the first thing I want to do -- I'm
7 Pat Rose, Government Relations Director for
8 Save the Manatee Club.
9 The first thing I want to do is thank you,
10 Governor, and members of the Cabinet, for
11 taking this issue, and bringing it back to the
12 forefront where it needs to be.
13 I think you're aware that I was the
14 administrator in charge of these Protected
15 Species Programs in 1989 when we brought these
16 prior programs to the Board of Trustees for
17 those actions.
18 I want to applaud Governor Martinez, and --
19 and also including members that exist today
20 that were there and recognized this problem as
21 the severity of what it was, and -- and it
22 really is. And I'll be very brief. But I want
23 to give you an overview quickly.
24 We were on the right track. The right
25 issues were being addressed, the -- the right
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1 people were being brought together, the right
2 emphasis was being given to this to avoid the
3 dilemma that we find ourselves in today.
4 We did very good from 1989 to about 1993.
5 We're being very effective. The counties were
6 cooperating, they were doing what needed to be
7 done the way it needed to be done. The will
8 was lost.
9 I see that will being returned to this,
10 Governor, with your leadership, and the
11 Attorney General, and -- and others in --
12 Treasurer Nelson, and -- have been very strong
13 supporters of manatees throughout this time.
14 So I just urge you that we can make this
15 summit be what it needs to be. And I won't
16 take issue with things that maybe I disagreed
17 with that were said today, because we'll wait
18 till the summit to do that.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
20 MR. ROSE: And I thank you very much for
21 your leadership.
22 And I know we can resolve these things if
23 we quit avoiding the problems, because Florida
24 is growing, it's going to grow, we know we want
25 to have manatees around, we know we're going to
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1 have boats around. So let's get together and
2 use the leadership you're exerting, and let's
3 solve this.
4 Thank you very much.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
6 Anybody else like to speak?
7 Mr. Hopping, how are you, sir?
8 MR. HOPPING: I'm fine, Governor.
9 Made me put on a tie today.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: I apologize.
11 MR. HOPPING: I appreciate the
12 opportunity --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We had to.
14 MR. HOPPING: -- to be --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Exactly.
16 MR. HOPPING: I represent the National
17 Marine Manufacturers Association, and have been
18 asked to also say a word or two for the
19 Association of Florida Community Developers,
20 and others.
21 We're very glad you're having this summit.
22 We're also very glad that you've -- and the
23 Game Commission and others have enhanced the
24 on-the-water enforcement.
25 My experience with comprehensive planning
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1 and other planning is that plans don't always
2 end up making something happen. And this is a
3 case where we have a growing population of
4 boaters, and a growing population of manatees.
5 And we're going to have to figure out some
6 innovative, maybe technological ways of making
7 the water compatible.
8 Boating is a big business in Florida. A
9 hundred and fifty-eight thousand jobs are
10 connected with the boating industry. It's a
11 10.5 billion dollar job a year. You'll hear
12 all that at the summit.
13 I think you're on the right track with the
14 summit. I think it's the right thing to do.
15 And -- and I hope, as you move forward through
16 this process, we'll look at things other than
17 these plans, because, you know, you've got
18 Growth Management Study Commission going now
19 that's seeing what's happened with all that
20 planning we did years and years ago, and what
21 it has and hasn't produced.
22 So -- but I think there's some action steps
23 that have been taken. And so we -- we support
24 where you're going with the summit.
25 Fortunately for those who participate, I'll
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1 be in Wales when that happens, but --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a pretty tie though,
3 Wade.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm sure --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- you'll have
7 somebody fill in for you.
8 MR. HOPPING: Yes. Several somebodies.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Would anybody else like to
10 speak?
11 MR. STRUHS: Thanks, Wade.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
13 MR. STRUHS: Okay. Thank you.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, David.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to defer
16 Item Number 3 and Item Number 4.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motions to defer and
19 seconds.
20 Without objection, they're deferred.
21 MR. STRUHS: Governor, and members of the
22 Cabinet, on Item Number 5, there's been a
23 proposed change to this item which is -- was
24 negotiated just this morning between the
25 applicant and members of the Department and the
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1 Save the Manatee Club.
2 The item you have before you has -- has
3 three different considerations. There would be
4 a -- another one added. It would insert
5 language with the following condition -- and
6 it's very brief, I'll just read it to you.
7 Hawkins Avenue Corporation shall install,
8 when technologically and economically feasible,
9 prop guards on all tugboats associated with
10 this facility in order to minimize potential
11 adverse impacts to manatees.
12 So if I could please ask you to -- to
13 consider the item with that proposed --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on
15 Item 5 --
16 MR. STRUHS: -- amendment.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- including the
18 proposed changes.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection as amended, it's
22 approved.
23 MR. STRUHS: With that -- with that then,
24 we would recommend approval of this item. We
25 do have a member of --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just got it.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It just happened.
3 You're on Item 6 now.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I think there are
5 some people opposed to it.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you have people opposed?
7 MR. STRUHS: Well, we -- I -- I apologize.
8 I thought that what you were doing was just
9 sort of agreeing to adopt that amendment, but
10 not to actually adopt the whole item.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We did the whole
12 thing. Is there something we shouldn't have
13 done?
14 MR. STRUHS: Well, we would have
15 recommended -- we -- we --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I thought you said there
17 was an agreement.
18 MR. STRUHS: There is. But there were a
19 number of residents in the area who had some
20 concerns about erosion that they wanted to
21 bring to your attention.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let them --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Bring them on.
24 MR. STRUHS: We've got Rebecca Khan,
25 Vernie Hodges, and --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't want to be --
2 MR. STRUHS: -- Lorraine Kratz.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- something that's already
4 been done. But --
5 MR. STRUHS: Sorry about that.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, next time, if people
7 are going to speak, don't let me pull the
8 trigger so fast.
9 Please, come and -- welcome.
10 MS. KRATZ: Thank you, sir.
11 My name is Lorraine Kratz, and I am one of
12 the property owners near the proposed site.
13 We -- one of our main concerns is erosion.
14 But on the manatee issue, I would like to say
15 that in the letter that I had received that
16 indicated that this was not a manatee
17 aggregation area -- and I'm not exactly sure
18 what all that means. But I know that there's
19 family pods of -- of sea cows, manatees that go
20 right up and down that site and feed along the
21 same area that -- that they're proposing to do
22 this project.
23 Governor Bush, and Honorable Cabinet
24 members, erosion has always been a concern for
25 riverfront property owners. And although we
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1 are not directly opposing the industrial
2 development of the area, the potential for loss
3 is too great to let go without comment.
4 It is for this reason that we've taken the
5 time and effort to -- to appear before you --
6 and I'm sorry I'm so nervous.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're doing fine.
8 MS. KRATZ: Erosion of the sandy soil that
9 makes up our banks is a fact of life. And
10 throughout time, our shores have seen much
11 depletion, greatly due to the fact that the
12 channel is maintained for ships to be able to
13 get to the electric plant on down the river.
14 Other factors would be a steady flow of
15 tugboats and ships that visit the Blount Island
16 marine terminal all the way on the other side
17 of the river.
18 If these factors at a distance have been
19 such a detriment, how much more of -- of an
20 impact would the proposed development make,
21 given a close-in dredging operation, and the
22 added turbulence kicked up by tugs and barges
23 also operating right at our shorelines?
24 Erosion is not an issue that has just
25 suddenly become -- that we've become concerned
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1 about. My mother, recently within the last
2 two years, tried to take steps to slow the
3 erosion process, but was heavily fined by the
4 EPA in order to remove the material that she
5 had put in to protect her property.
6 It seems that the State has a $57,799
7 vested interest in making sure that the
8 submerged land lease is granted. And as there
9 is a potential benefit to the State, we feel
10 that the State has a responsibility to take
11 measures to protect the rights and the
12 properties of those who stand to lose the most.
13 I respectfully ask this group to afford us
14 a modicum of protection by having our
15 properties bulkheaded, either at the expense of
16 the State via the profits made from the
17 consideration -- excuse me -- or at the expense
18 of the company seeking the permit.
19 Our reasonable expectation is not that we
20 would gain any additional land, only that the
21 State would protect and preserve the land for
22 the future now, while there's still something
23 to protect.
24 I thank you for your time and your
25 thoughtful consideration of this matter.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, ma'am.
2 Would anybody else like to speak?
3 Good morning.
4 MS. KHAN: I'm Rebecca Khan, and I
5 appreciate this opportunity to speak. I
6 understand this was rescheduled from a July
7 meeting when we did not receive notification.
8 I own property directly adjacent to the
9 Hawkins Avenue Wood-Hopkins proposed
10 dredging --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Get --
12 MS. KHAN: -- dredging --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Perfect.
14 MS. KHAN: -- and docking project. And,
15 again, I do not oppose the development
16 outright.
17 I do, however, have concerns that this
18 development will negatively affect adjacent
19 property. Most urgently --
20 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
21 MS. KHAN: -- the most urgent concern is
22 erosion along the waterfront. And this is a
23 historical concern.
24 This property has been in my family for
25 three generations. It was purchased by my
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1 Great Aunt, Annie Marie Stein, over 75 years
2 ago, and I spent my childhood and young
3 adulthood along the river shores.
4 I have a copy of a letter written by my
5 Great Aunt, which I can provide for the record,
6 in which she describes in 1926 that erosion was
7 a problem then, and that was due to shipping
8 traffic and dredging, which was occurring in
9 the vicinity.
10 As I understand it, until now, the dredging
11 has always been in mid channel or on the
12 opposite side of the river along Blount Island.
13 Nonetheless, over time, dredging and water
14 traffic, especially during times of high water,
15 have had devastating effects.
16 By the 1930s, my Great Aunt had to move her
17 house to prevent it falling into the river.
18 Around the time the house was moved back,
19 my Great Aunt also attempted to slow down the
20 erosion by installing a row of barrels at the
21 edge of the bluff.
22 I have a photograph of that, too, which
23 clearly shows the contour of the river, and how
24 it has eroded from the time the barrels were
25 placed to where the bluff is now. It's about
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1 35 feet of additional erosion.
2 The bluff is sandy, and our fear is that
3 having seen what happened in the past, that
4 nearby dredging with increased shipping traffic
5 and resulting wakes will do irreparable harm to
6 our properties.
7 Property that is lost to erosion cannot be
8 replaced. And we ask that your decision in
9 this matter reflect the name of your
10 department, environmental protection. It is
11 only fair that our property also be protected.
12 We ask that you take necessary measures to
13 ensure protection of our property and
14 resources. Ultimately, it will not only be in
15 our -- the property owners interest, but it
16 will be in the best interest of the State to
17 ensure that these properties remain intact and
18 viable for future development.
19 In closing, we ask that, if you approve the
20 permit, you will ensure protection of our
21 properties.
22 And I thank you for your consideration.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
24 MR. STRUHS: Ms. -- Ms. Kratz now?
25 MS. KHAN: Ms. Hodge.
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1 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry. Hodge.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
3 Thank you for coming.
4 MS. HODGES: Good morning.
5 My name is Vernie Hodges, and I reside at
6 4517 Irving Road in Duval County, or
7 Jacksonville, Florida.
8 And as the prior speakers have said, we do
9 have an erosion problem on our side of the
10 river.
11 And as far as the manatees goes, there's
12 plenty of them comes up and down the river, and
13 mostly in the wintertime. They do that because
14 of the warm waters that's coming from JEA, and
15 they kindly congregate in that area.
16 So -- and they do feed on the short marsh
17 grasses that's along the bank. I have been
18 there at that particular place for 28 years.
19 And I've been watching the erosion on my bank.
20 I put in some tiles to hold it. And -- well,
21 the Department of Environmental Protection told
22 me to take it out.
23 So they made me take it out at my own cost.
24 It cost me $1600 to get that tile removed from
25 the bank. And that's where I'm at. I'm trying
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1 to protect my -- I'm trying to protect my
2 property, and they would not let me. They made
3 me take it back out at a cost of $1600 to me.
4 And I am on a fixed income. I cannot
5 afford that kind of money. And $1,000 may not
6 be much to some people, but it was my life
7 savings.
8 So due to the fact that that's all I have,
9 that's my home, and I think that we should be
10 protected from erosion on our bank.
11 I think we should have the -- the privilege
12 to -- when we can afford it, to bulkhead our
13 properties, or have it bulkheaded some way or
14 the other, to avoid all this erosion. And I
15 thank you very much for your consideration.
16 I have maps to prove that we have had bad
17 erosion on it. And I can show them to you at
18 any time, now if you prefer to look at them.
19 But we just can't keep going on like this,
20 and everybody being protected that's got money,
21 but the people that don't have money is not
22 protected too well.
23 And I thank you very much.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, ma'am.
25 Thank you very much.
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1 Secretary Struhs, do you have any comments
2 about the erosion and what impact this lease
3 will have?
4 MR. STRUHS: Sir, yes.
5 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
6 MR. STRUHS: We're fortunate to have
7 Mr. Ernie Frey --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are there other speakers?
9 I'm sorry.
10 MR. STRUHS: -- with us this morning.
11 Mr. Frey runs the DEP's office in
12 Jacksonville, and has more personal familiarity
13 with this.
14 His conclusion, the Department's
15 conclusion, is that this agenda item, if -- if
16 constructed, would not increase the regular
17 rate of erosion on that river at that site.
18 Specifically as it relates though to
19 Mrs. Hodges' issue regarding the removal of
20 some material she put on the shore, that's
21 something that we're not familiar with, but we
22 will certainly look into that.
23 Mr. Frey.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you could answer the --
25 the -- how -- if there's anything that --
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1 that -- that we can do to help the people that
2 came here to speak about the erosion problem,
3 irrespective of this lease, I'd -- I'd be
4 grateful.
5 MR. FREY: Well, you know, sir, property
6 owners have the right to reclaim areas that
7 have been eroded as -- when they come to the
8 Department and ask for that, we obviously go
9 through the activity of -- of permitting any of
10 those things that we can help them with.
11 But there is a permit that's required, as
12 you're -- as you're aware for activities
13 that -- that may -- may take place.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. But what --
15 but they have to pay to do it. All you do is
16 let them do it.
17 MR. FREY: There is a minor fee for the
18 permit, yes, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And it -- no, I'm
20 not worried about the permit. That's --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's cost of installation.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- once they get
23 the permit, we don't reclaim the land for them.
24 They have to do it themselves.
25 MR. FREY: Yes, sir.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And if one
2 property owner was to do it, I don't think it
3 would last very long because the erosion would
4 take it -- I mean, you'd have to -- everybody
5 would have to do it.
6 MR. FREY: Sir, if I could -- if I could
7 clarify a little bit on the channel that we're
8 talking -- the water that we're talking about
9 here. This is not the main channel of the
10 river. This is the back river. It is the old
11 river channel.
12 The Corps of Engineers has cut a -- a new
13 channel for shipping that goes in front of
14 Blount Island. So that is the main area of
15 current that occurs within this particular area
16 that transports the water from the tidal action
17 up the river.
18 There is activity along this, but from the
19 staff's review, and -- and visits to the site,
20 they're seeing that actually sedimentation is
21 actually occurring along the shoreline, not an
22 erosion occurring in this particular area.
23 Now, there is some erosion that may occur
24 from wave action because of tugboats and -- and
25 boat traffic that goes down through there. But
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1 from a regular, natural erosion, that's not --
2 that's not the problem in this particular area.
3 In the -- in this permit, what we've
4 requested is that the applicant remain 25 feet
5 from the riparian line so that there'll be a
6 minimum of impact to the adjacent properties,
7 and also that the slope of the basin that's
8 going to be dredged will be at a 1 to 4 slope
9 to minimize any erosion for slumping that may
10 occur into the -- into the dredged basin that
11 they need for their barge storage.
12 So we -- we are anticipating that there
13 will not be any adjacent -- any additional
14 erosion if the -- if any is occurring on
15 these -- because of this particular activity.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
17 MR. STRUHS: Governor, Lorraine Kratz,
18 who -- who's already appeared before you, would
19 like to amend her earlier comments, or add to
20 them.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
22 MS. KRATZ: I just wanted to say one thing:
23 There's a section of property that is all
24 bulkheaded, and then there are three
25 property owners, and then the Hawkins group.
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1 And so if the Hawkins group is bulkheaded,
2 and the properties on down the line, which a
3 number of years ago was bulkheaded by the State
4 because I think the property owner was a
5 light keeper or something, then that'll leave
6 just a small cove, a small section of three
7 properties that are not bulkheaded.
8 And so our contention is, all this wash
9 comes in and washes us out, and the added
10 turbulence is going to add to it.
11 I'm not an engineer, I don't claim to be.
12 But it seems to me like that, either we should
13 be allowed to bulkhead, or that it should -- if
14 the State is going to -- to benefit something
15 from it, that it should also be bulkheaded as
16 well, and make the entire portion bulkheaded.
17 Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Question,
20 Governor.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: David, if --
23 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- if -- I think
25 we should -- if -- if what your staff in
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1 Jacksonville says is true, that basically it's
2 building instead of eroding --
3 MR. STRUHS: Right.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we should have
5 the staff make a measurement on where it is
6 today. And if, in fact, we find that there's a
7 large amount of erosion because of the use
8 of -- of this property we're getting a lease
9 to, I think the company and the State have an
10 obligation to do something about it.
11 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And -- and so I --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'll tell you what,
14 you're --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- modify the
16 lease --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- not an engineer. You
18 sure sound like one.
19 I -- I mean, is there an engineer in the
20 house that would dispute that? That sounds
21 like a pretty good description of what will
22 happen. I --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, if it does,
24 then I think that --
25 MR. STRUHS: Right.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and I don't
2 know that it will, but it appears to me that it
3 could. And if it does, I think there's an
4 obligation by the State for giving the lease,
5 and by the company for causing the erosion, to
6 do something about it.
7 MR. STRUHS: Right.
8 Well, let -- let me just reiterate. Our
9 analysis of that particular situation is that
10 we will actually see accretion, not erosion;
11 but what we will commit to today is -- is to
12 get another team out there --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, it's not a
14 matter of what we think will happen. What I
15 I'm talking about is what --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: What --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- actually
18 happens.
19 MR. STRUHS: Right.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And if it -- if it
21 accretes, then, hey, nobody has a complaint.
22 MR. STRUHS: Right.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If it erodes,
24 then -- then these people have a valid
25 complaint, and it ought to be fixed.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Right.
2 And we -- we will take that recommendation,
3 and -- and implement it and get some
4 measurements out there to actually prove or
5 disprove one way or the other what's actually
6 going to happen.
7 I would just, if I could, please, inquire
8 as to whether or not Mr. Ricky Mitchell is
9 here?
10 MR. MITCHELL: Yes.
11 MR. STRUHS: Did you want to speak, sir?
12 Mr. Mitchell is the President of
13 Wood-Hopkins, and representing the -- the
14 applicant.
15 Thank you, Commissioner.
16 MR. MITCHELL: Thank you.
17 My name's Rick Mitchell. I own
18 Hawkins Avenue Corporation, along with my
19 children.
20 I am a native Floridian. I presently live
21 in Georgia. I appreciate the opportunity to
22 speak.
23 We're very -- very, very aware of the
24 adjacent property owners. You've got to
25 realize that there's ship traffic in this
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1 channel now. The -- it's directly across
2 from -- from Blount Island. There's routine
3 traffic.
4 We've just finished a 12 million dollar
5 wharf for the JPA right across from here. I
6 don't know how you would measure any additional
7 traffic in this channel.
8 What we intend to be is -- is good
9 neighbors. I have spoken with Mrs. Craft (sic)
10 on occasion. I am not prepared to buy her
11 property. I can't afford it. It's going to
12 take everything we can to develop this
13 property.
14 And we will protect our neighbors. I have
15 a plat and a plan showing shrubbery,
16 landscaping in between, and we intend to
17 improve the property.
18 It's zoned IW. We cannot do anything else
19 with it.
20 Thank you.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Have I -- I have a
22 question.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine?
24 MR. MITCHELL: Yes, ma'am.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: If -- thank you.
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1 If you're -- if you're committed to
2 protecting your neighbors and -- but not buying
3 their property, would it make sense in the
4 lease that it would, you know, as we measure
5 down the road, since -- since you'll be
6 accruing the benefits, that, indeed, if there
7 is erosion, that you would attend to the
8 bulkheads or whatever that would help to
9 diminish that.
10 MR. MITCHELL: If you could define how you
11 would measure that. You've got to realize that
12 there's ship -- there's ongoing ship traffic in
13 this channel presently.
14 I don't know how you would -- I don't know
15 if it's measured. I'm not -- I don't know if
16 it's measured daily, weekly, or monthly.
17 If you could determine that we are a cause
18 of an action, then we're responsible for a
19 cause of an action. But I don't know how you
20 would determine that in this case.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thank you.
22 Could I -- could I ask -- talk to
23 Secretary Struhs?
24 Is there a way to measure erosion over
25 time? I mean, it -- wouldn't there be a way to
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1 measure it?
2 And my question, more to the point is: Do
3 you have a historical measurement to know that
4 there has been that kind of historic erosion
5 because of shipping and -- and that, indeed,
6 this could increase, I mean, or --
7 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- decrease it?
9 MR. STRUHS: Yes. We -- we know that
10 historically there has been erosion. The
11 analysis shows that going forward we'll see
12 accretion.
13 What we will commit to is -- is to go out
14 there and actually place some measures that can
15 be monitored.
16 We will -- we will know -- should the --
17 the pace of change here is something we will
18 determine within a year. Within a year, we
19 will know with certainty as to precisely what
20 the effects are going to be, either erosion or
21 accretion.
22 And we'd be happy to commit to come back to
23 you in that time period and -- and specifically
24 report to you what's happening. And, indeed,
25 if there is an erosion problem, commit some
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1 resources to address it.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: But would that be on the
3 shoulders of the State at that point, or on the
4 shoulders of the lessee --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's up to us.
6 MR. STRUHS: What -- what I would -- what I
7 would -- would -- I'm sorry.
8 What I would recommend in -- in terms of
9 the -- the -- the cost and the -- the
10 requirements to do the monitoring, that's
11 something that the Department would just take
12 on and do.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Right. In terms of the
14 monitoring.
15 But if there are any consequence in terms
16 of needing to build a bulkhead or not, would
17 that accrue to the lessee or to the lessor?
18 MR. STRUHS: That would be subject to some
19 negotiation.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think -- I just think
21 that's an important issue to -- to discern, or
22 to agree to before we go forward.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: General Butterworth.
24 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Thank you,
25 Governor.
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1 David, you said it's subject to
2 negotiation. Aren't you in a better position
3 to negotiate now than in the future?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I think that
6 should be negotiated before we -- maybe we take
7 a final vote on this.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: How much -- how much does
9 the -- it's a good -- good question without a
10 need for an answer.
11 How -- how much -- how much does a
12 bulkhead -- would they -- would it cost?
13 Anybody have an estimation?
14 No?
15 Do the neighbors -- do y'all have a guess?
16 MS. HODGES: I have no idea, except for the
17 fact that it would be 450 foot of property that
18 would have to be bulkheaded to --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is that just your property,
20 ma'am, or is that everybody's?
21 MS. HODGES: That's everybody's.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Four hundred and fifty?
23 MS. HODGES: All but the property --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I used to know how much it
25 cost per foot.
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1 MS. HODGES: -- the -- the Hawkins property
2 and where we're at.
3 MR. STRUHS: Governor --
4 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
5 MR. STRUHS: -- the -- this is just very
6 rough, but the -- the -- the current cost
7 approximately for doing this kind of
8 bulkheading work runs -- depending on the kind
9 of material and how strong you build it --
10 between 100 and -- and $500 per foot.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: So --
12 MR. STRUHS: And -- and I'm sorry, I don't
13 have handy the -- the linear dimensions here.
14 It's 495 feet.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Four fifty.
16 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: That's
17 absolute minimum.
18 MR. STRUHS: No, actually -- we just don't
19 have the dimensions. We don't -- we don't know
20 what the -- what the property is.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Somewhere between
22 forty-five and two twenty-five.
23 MR. STRUHS: We -- we don't have the
24 frontage -- river frontage of the three
25 property owners here.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
2 MS. KRATZ: Four hundred and fifty foot.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. We got the size --
4 we got the linear feet. Four hundred and
5 fifty.
6 So it's -- so it's 45,000 to $100,000.
7 MR. STRUHS: Right.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- if I -- if I may,
12 there has been continuous erosion there now.
13 If we didn't have this before us, there would
14 be continued erosion.
15 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I mean, the
17 fact that this is being put in place is not
18 going to really change what situation exists
19 right now.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, it might.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: It could escalate it, or
22 there would be accretion.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh -- well, we don't
24 know. We -- we don't even know what
25 historically -- we can guess perhaps, we can
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1 look at some photographs --
2 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- but we'd have a
4 hard time, even historically, determining what
5 the rate of erosion is.
6 And -- and, frankly, there are so many
7 conditions that impact on this, that even one
8 year's time doesn't necessarily give you a good
9 handle.
10 So I -- I mean, we're -- we're really
11 getting in some interesting waters here, and --
12 and --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: So to speak.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- I think we need
15 to be careful.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
17 Governor --
18 Secretary Struhs, it looks like, if there's
19 450 feet, it'd be somewhere between 45,000 and
20 225,000. And, again, if we move forward --
21 to -- to create the bulkhead.
22 If we move forward, then it -- it just --
23 it's -- it -- it may even be more than that.
24 I mean, if you're talking in linear feet for
25 height and width, I don't know.
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1 But --
2 MR. STRUHS: That's right.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- if we're going to
4 move forward with this, we should be decid-- we
5 should decide -- attribute the kind of
6 responsibility in percentage, because as
7 General Milligan says, if there's already
8 erosion, how much are we escalating, how are we
9 not, you know, whose responsibility is -- is it
10 really.
11 But I'm -- I guess I'm somewhat
12 concerned -- I'm supportive of -- of this
13 project, but I'm somewhat concerned with --
14 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- with this piece of --
16 of the lease, that it's not determined prior to
17 our -- our vote.
18 MR. STRUHS: Right.
19 What -- what -- what -- what I would
20 recommend, based on a very accommodating
21 applicant, Mr. Mitchell, would be to defer this
22 item.
23 Actually you've already acted on it. We
24 would need to revisit it --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: How do we do that? How do
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1 we undo what we did?
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Move to reconsider.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Move to
4 reconsider.
5 MR. STRUHS: And -- and what
6 Mr. Mitchell --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to
8 reconsider.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in -- anybody opposed
13 to it?
14 All in favor, say aye.
15 THE CABINET: Aye.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
17 Okay.
18 MR. STRUHS: What we will -- what we will
19 do is we will bring the applicant, and these
20 three property owners together, and come up
21 with a plan so the next time you deal with this
22 issue, it will have been resolved.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, let me ask a
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1 question --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Now there's a motion --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: How much -- how
4 much is this -- is this a problem for the owner
5 who thought -- this has been deferred a couple
6 times already.
7 MR. STRUHS: Well, Mr. Mitchell is here,
8 and you could ask him directly, although
9 he's -- he's indicated that he's comfortable
10 with this course of action.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: He can -- he can
12 wait another meeting?
13 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And when are --
15 when are you going to bring it up?
16 On the 26th?
17 MR. STRUHS: We -- we -- we may or may not
18 want to do this in Panama City. If not -- if
19 not, then certainly the next Cabinet meeting.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
21 MR. STRUHS: October.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion -- is
23 there a motion to defer?
24 MR. STRUHS: Octob-- if we could defer to
25 October 10, please.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer to
2 October 10th.
3 Is there a second?
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's --
6 the motion has been deferred.
7 Thank you very much.
8 Thank you, sir, for your accommodation.
9 And thank you all for coming.
10 It does prove that people come, they show
11 up, even after the thing is already approved,
12 that they can --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They can change
14 them.
15 Flexible. Flexible.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 6.
17 MR. STRUHS: Item 6, we're recommending
18 approval, subject to special lease conditions
19 and the payment of --
20 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
21 MR. STRUHS: -- $7,718.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 7, recommending
2 approval, subject to special conditions and
3 payment of $34,483.
4 And I will point out that Mr. Pat Rose has
5 indicated an interest in speaking to this item.
6 Also just to -- to point out the obvious, this
7 proposal is in Collier County, one of those
8 counties that does have an approved Manatee
9 Protection Plan.
10 And all the conditions and recommendations
11 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation
12 Commission have been adopted in the proposed
13 permit.
14 Oh, he had to leave?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: He's running for office.
16 He's got to go out and shake hands.
17 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
18 Well, Mr. Rose is not here.
19 Does anybody else want to speak?
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Would anybody like to
21 speak?
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
23 MR. STRUHS: Well, our -- our
24 recommendation --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there --
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1 MR. STRUHS: -- stands.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a motion?
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 6.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Substitute Item 8, we're
8 seeking --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Was that 7?
10 I'm --
11 MR. STRUHS: That was 7.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Correct me. That
13 was a motion on 7.
14 MR. STRUHS: That was 7.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's what I
16 thought.
17 MR. STRUHS: Substitute Item 8, we're
18 seeking to withdraw that.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to
20 withdraw.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's been withdrawn.
24 Item Number 9, if I could explain this one
25 in -- in a bit more detail, please.
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1 There's actually two items here. One is
2 the Board -- seeking -- the Board of Trustees
3 to disclaim any State interest in 9/100 of an
4 acre of --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nine?
6 MR. STRUHS: -- privately-owned land.
7 The second item would be to delegate
8 authority to the Secretary of the DEP, or
9 designee, to issue these kinds of disclaimers
10 in the future.
11 There are only about, on average, one or
12 two of these that occur in any given year.
13 And -- and the -- the issue is -- again, it's
14 the difference between erosion and avulsion.
15 Avulsion being --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary of State Harris
17 is our ex--
18 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- living -- expert on this
20 subject.
21 MR. STRUHS: Yes. I -- I recognize that.
22 So this is actually doing two things.
23 And -- and if you're comfortable doing them
24 together, that's fine. Or we could separate --
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm -- I'm not --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- comfortable with
3 doing them together.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No? Okay.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll certainly
6 support the first portion.
7 MR. STRUHS: Okay.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
10 first portion.
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- that, to be
12 specific, is the disclaimer on the .09 --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on that.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And I'll second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
17 Without objection, it's approved.
18 Now --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now the delegation
20 of the rule.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Delegation of the rule.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, we just
23 went through an interesting evolution where
24 people had a chance to come forward and -- and
25 even on a very minor -- relatively minor issue
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1 in terms of amount of land involved and
2 so forth. And I think it's good to keep these
3 things in the sunshine.
4 You know, we -- we're trying to move things
5 along certainly, and -- and cut some
6 bureaucracy.
7 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: But at times I think
9 we're sacrificing one of the real beauties of
10 the state of Florida, and that is, getting
11 these issues out in the sunshine.
12 MR. STRUHS: Right.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And giving people an
14 opportunity to express their views.
15 So I -- in the interest of retaining things
16 in the sunshine, not out of the sunshine, I am
17 opposed -- even though it's a minor issue, I'm
18 opposed to delegating it.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Now, I -- I'm
20 going to argue the other side.
21 And I would agree with you, General, if,
22 in fact, we didn't specifically say in this
23 delegation of authority that any applications
24 that are controversial or questionable would
25 come to us and on our agenda. That means, if
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1 some individual person has a problem with that,
2 we would hear it.
3 And these -- these minor things are -- are
4 really nothing more than permission to -- to
5 straighten something out that's usually
6 happened by a quick storm or something that
7 comes in, and gives the people a chance to go
8 right back and fix it, rather than wait till it
9 has to get agendaed on our -- on our items.
10 So -- if it was -- if it's going to be
11 large, or anybody -- it's controversial or
12 questionable by any neighbors, then, of course,
13 it would have to go through the process and get
14 here.
15 But otherwise, I think DEP should be able
16 to go right in and -- and give the people a
17 chance to --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And that --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- to come --
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and that's
21 terrific. But we just saw an example of the
22 interest of moving things along rapidly. And
23 we had to walk the cat back.
24 And, you know, there's only about one or
25 two --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sorry.
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- of these a year.
3 This is not a big deal to have them on the
4 agenda. And -- and obviously if it's an
5 emergency, it can be done very rapidly.
6 So I -- it's just the problem of -- of what
7 are we about, doing things in the sunshine, or
8 not doing things in the sunshine? And this is
9 just another example.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- Governor, I
13 just -- I agree with Commissioner Gallagher.
14 I think it's -- it's not really a sunshine
15 issue. It's really --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: This -- this
17 particular issue is not. It's the --
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- principle I'm
20 talking about.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yeah. And it's a
22 valid principle. And I support -- I support
23 your concept.
24 A good question, I guess, where you draw
25 the line. And we can do -- differ on that.
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1 But for the sake of efficiency, I would
2 draw the line here, and -- and say, this is
3 something reasonable to del-- to delegate.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
5 Yes, General Butterworth.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: In my few
7 years here on -- on the Cabinet, and especially
8 Board of Trustees, these items usually take
9 such a short period of time, that really I just
10 think it's in the best interest when we're
11 talking about the lands of the state of
12 Florida, and we sit as the Board of Trustees of
13 those lands, it's -- it's best to do it in the
14 open.
15 I think it -- it makes us really look much
16 better. And -- and many times somebody might
17 not even get notification and just find
18 something that affects them already happening.
19 So even though the words are in there,
20 controversial or questionable, I don't know who
21 determines whether or not it's controversial or
22 questionable, but I think it's -- it's just
23 best -- I agree with -- with General Milligan,
24 it's best to do it right here.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me just -- I'm
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1 not worried about the time it takes here.
2 That's certainly not the thing.
3 But when did -- let's just use an example.
4 The -- the avulsion of property on Little Palm
5 Island, when did they first come to us and
6 apply for this?
7 MR. GOODWYNE: In '96.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: In '96?
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: In '96?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, how's that
11 for an example of why --
12 MR. GOODWYNE: That was not the Board of
13 Trustees' fault. It was -- it was the
14 applicant surveyor.
15 It took years to get the survey right, and
16 I dealt with it on a day -- you know, weekly
17 basis.
18 I think once the survey was right --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Come on up if you're going
20 to speak.
21 Welcome.
22 MR. GOODWYNE: Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who are you?
24 MR. GOODWYNE: My name's Owen Goodwyne, and
25 I practice law in Tallahassee with
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1 Bill Roberts' law firm.
2 The storm occurred in March of '93. The
3 applicant hired a hydrographic engineer that
4 didn't know anything about avulsion or
5 disclaimers.
6 And it bumbled around a little while, a
7 year or so trying to get permits. And then
8 they came to us and we realized we needed to
9 get an avulsion disclaimer. So that
10 application was filed I think somewhere in '95
11 or early '96.
12 And I would say it took -- well, almost
13 four years to get the survey right. And I --
14 I think that the -- the State asked for a lot
15 of things on the survey, like, you know, lineal
16 feet -- lineal feet of riprap and whatever.
17 But it was information that could have been put
18 there.
19 And I can say that once our survey was
20 correct, the Board of Trustees -- or the
21 Department of Environmental Protection moved
22 with it quickly, and it came before you.
23 So I would have to say that it was more the
24 applicant's failure to be able to produce what
25 was asked than it was the State's fault, or the
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1 delay.
2 It came quick after we got that survey.
3 I'd say within three months we were here.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three months.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, yeah,
7 three months sounds real quick when you started
8 in 1996. But if somebody got a storm hit --
9 if --
10 MR. GOODWYNE: Like I say --
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- if somebody had
12 a storm him them --
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: I agree.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- this summer,
15 and they'd like to fix it right away, you know,
16 three months is --
17 MR. GOODWYNE: Well, they --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- a long time.
19 MR. GOODWYNE: -- they need to hire a good
20 surveyor that gets right on it. And it --
21 that's hard to find sometimes in the Keys.
22 When this person's done all your surveys for
23 year after year, and you don't want to go
24 somewhere else, but he just doesn't have time
25 to do it, and -- it just got strung out a long
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1 time.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary Struhs, on an
3 aside, is there something we can do on your
4 website that would help to expedite the process
5 just in terms of information or linkages to
6 surveyors, avulsion experts, any of those kinds
7 of things so that somebody doesn't have to wait
8 from a storm in '91 -- or '93 to get to 2000?
9 MR. STRUHS: I -- I suspect there's
10 probably something we could do. Although
11 I'm -- I'm hesitant to commit to any particular
12 course of action here. I just don't know how
13 we would -- how we would make it work. But
14 I'm --
15 SECRETARY HARRIS: Just in terms of
16 improving access to information. And it's
17 just -- that seems outrageous, that it could
18 take seven years in the process.
19 But --
20 MR. STRUHS: Right.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: I -- yes, I have one
23 more thing.
24 Sorry, Governor.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Katherine.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: In terms -- these issues
2 you said -- you said you only -- how many a
3 year do you have that come before you?
4 MR. STRUHS: One -- one or two.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: One or two a year?
6 Split the baby. I mean, one or two a year,
7 it's not that difficult, three months. On the
8 other hand, they're trying to expedite their
9 issues. It's not something that's coming
10 before you that's controversial that you're
11 making a decision if you can -- assist the
12 public --
13 MR. STRUHS: Right.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- in a -- in a -- in a
15 much more efficient manner.
16 MR. STRUHS: Clearly you're right. I mean,
17 we -- we don't have any strong feelings about
18 this. We were just proposing it really as a
19 means of improving convenience for the
20 applicant. But --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tell you what, David.
22 I -- I appreciate Commissioner Crawford,
23 and Commissioner Gallagher's position on this
24 because we -- because we are trying to make
25 government more efficient.
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1 But why don't we do this: Why don't we
2 defer this so that you can actually talk to the
3 Cabinet members and develop a plan that
4 protects the people's right to access the
5 Cabinet, and also protects property owners'
6 right for efficiency?
7 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, it is unfair to
9 keep people waiting when they have -- when they
10 have certain problems. But there's enough
11 discussion about this that I think it's
12 appropriate to -- to vent it further with --
13 with each member of the Cabinet.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move to
15 defer.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion to defer
19 and a second.
20 Without objection, approved.
21 Thank you.
22 MR. STRUHS: Thank you.
23 Substitute Item Number 10, we're seeking a
24 deferral so we can actually have -- have that
25 on the agenda for the Panama City --
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 10,
2 defer.
3 MR. STRUHS: -- Cabinet meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's deferred.
7 We're going to have a great Cabinet meeting
8 on -- on --
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Make --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: We've gone from --
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- it reservations.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just doing resolutions,
13 actually we're going to have a couple of
14 food fights it looks like.
15 TREASURER NELSON: It's going to be a long
16 one, too.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know. Going to make
18 adjustments to the lunch.
19 MR. STRUHS: On Item 11, we're recommending
20 approval of a purchase agreement for one
21 thousand three hundred and twelve-and-a-half
22 acres in the Etoniah Cross Florida Greenway
23 CARL Project.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Could I ask a
4 question, please, Governor.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, sir.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- I know that
7 we are moving slowly, but eventually, to
8 eliminating the Rodman Reservoir.
9 Is that correct?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
11 MR. STRUHS: That -- that is our position,
12 yes.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
14 If we -- if we didn't have the reservoir --
15 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and we were
17 trying to do this Cross Florida Greenway, would
18 we be buying this piece of property?
19 MR. STRUHS: Yes. The answer is -- is --
20 is clearly yes for a variety of reasons.
21 Clearly it's in the State's interest based on
22 previous court determinations to settle these
23 cases in inverse condemnation, rather than
24 taking them through litigation.
25 There's clearly an issue here of trespass,
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1 given the fact that the Federal deauthorization
2 of the project back in 1991 allowed for the
3 expiration of those easements.
4 So it's -- essentially the State has been
5 trespassing --
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So we're -- we're
7 kind of in a catch-22.
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And we don't --
10 MR. STRUHS: I wouldn't --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- really have any
12 choice.
13 MR. STRUHS: We -- we -- we really don't.
14 And this is -- is -- is the most prudent from a
15 fiscal point of view.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
17 MR. STRUHS: Beyond that, it is also a part
18 of the previously approved CARL project for
19 the -- for the Greenway. So it's something
20 that we would be seeking --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, no. And I --
22 and I appreciate that. But that -- that -- the
23 Greenway was driven, to some degree, in its
24 design by the existence of the reservoir.
25 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And so my question
2 really was: You know, would we be doing this
3 in the greenway sense, if the reservoir wasn't
4 there.
5 But we're really driven on a catch-22 basis
6 here to --
7 MR. STRUHS: Right. I -- I think the
8 answer is -- is probably yes -- in fact, it is
9 yes to both of your questions.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
11 MR. STRUHS: Yes to the --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: All right.
13 MR. STRUHS: -- mitigation strategy and --
14 and also for the acquisition strategy.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
16 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 12, we have
17 Mr. John Carnaghi here from Florida State
18 University and Mr. Andy Miller from the
19 Seminole Boosters who would like to speak to
20 it.
21 We're recommending approval of this item,
22 which is two purchase agreements to acquire
23 1.73 acres for the benefit of the Florida
24 Board of Regents and Florida State University.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move the item
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1 so we can discuss it.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
4 Welcome.
5 MR. CARNAGHI: Good morning.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
7 MR. CARNAGHI: If I may -- and I do promise
8 to be brief -- I think I have to give you a
9 little background, because this goes back to
10 trying to -- our desire to comply with Title 9
11 requests, as well as NCAA certification
12 requirements, and certainly to meet the needs
13 of our female student athletes.
14 With the improvements that you're aware of
15 at University Center, which revolves around our
16 football program, we can no longer just
17 promise.
18 (Commissioner Gallagher exited the room.)
19 MR. CARNAGHI: We needed to deliver in
20 terms of women's programs.
21 Thus we made the women's soccer/softball
22 project a campus priority, and assembled the
23 student leadership and the Booster organization
24 to help us.
25 Our campus Master Plans show that the
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1 existing intramural fields were the most
2 efficient place for us to locate a women's
3 soccer/softball complex.
4 But it lead us to another problem, and that
5 was, we needed to relocate the thousands of
6 on-campus students who participated in
7 intramural programs who were using these
8 fields.
9 Again, turning to our campus Master Plan,
10 it was proposed that we convert an old cement
11 plant site that we owned to the new intramural
12 fields. And certainly the students
13 enthusiastically endorsed this. And if you've
14 been by our campus at Woodward and Gaines, you
15 can see we have an outstanding intramural
16 complex.
17 But there was a problem: One-fourth of
18 that property was being used to house the
19 library processing facility, a unit that's
20 critical to our library services on campus.
21 So while the students were willing to
22 invest some of the CITF money they have into
23 the new intramural complex itself, we needed a
24 way to fund the acquiring of land --
25 (Commissioner Gallagher entered the room.)
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1 MR. CARNAGHI: -- the construction of a new
2 library processing facility.
3 And what we did was choose a -- a blended
4 funding approach, with both using the Boosters,
5 as well as the PECO funding.
6 And so this project was put both on our
7 PECO list, and in the appropriations bill for
8 authorization by the Boosters to participate in
9 this project.
10 And we were encouraged to proceed even
11 after the Governor vetoed the PECO request that
12 it wasn't a priority, and we did so, with the
13 Boosters assuming --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who -- who encouraged you
15 to proceed?
16 MR. CARNAGHI: Pardon?
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who enc-- out of curiosity,
18 who encouraged you to proceed?
19 MR. CARNAGHI: Board of Regents, as well as
20 members of the Governor's staff.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, after I vetoed it?
22 MR. CARHAGHI: It just -- it just -- it
23 just wasn't a priority.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Insurrection in the ranks.
25 MR. CARNAGHI: It -- it was a good project,
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1 but not a priority.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: No names, please.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'll talk to you later.
4 MR. CARNAGHI: But we did proceed.
5 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
6 room.)
7 MR. CARNAGHI: We -- we asked the Boosters
8 to assume the full financial costs, with the
9 understanding that we would someday purchase
10 this facility, because it doesn't make a whole
11 lot of sense for the Boosters to own a library
12 processing facility.
13 We now have an effective library processing
14 plant that employs, in fact, these very --
15 faculty very much appreciate. We have
16 excellent facilities for both our women's
17 intercollegiate, as well as our students
18 intramural programs. In this regard, this was
19 truly the most successful solution to our
20 problem.
21 That's -- that's it.
22 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I've got a quick
23 question, if I may, Governor.
24 The original scheme then was for -- and --
25 and that's my term, scheme, not yours.
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1 The original --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It was a scheme.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- scheme was to --
4 for the University to purchase the land.
5 MR. CARNAGHI: Eventually, yes, sir.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And then the
7 Boosters would build a facility on that land.
8 I mean, I say that because --
9 MR. CARNAGHI: We were -- we were under
10 the -- it was a time-sensitive project. So
11 we -- we actually wanted the Boosters to
12 purchase the land and build it, yes.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: As I -- I'm,
14 you know, reading some correspondence,
15 for example, this letter from Adam Herbert in
16 January '98 says this project will be added.
17 And -- let's see.
18 Any subsequent lease between the
19 Seminole Boosters -- this now for the facility,
20 not for the land -- any subsequent lease
21 between the Seminole Boosters and the
22 University for the use of the facility.
23 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
24 room.)
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I get the impression
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1 that the idea was that the University would own
2 the land, the Boosters would build the
3 facility, and would lease it back to the
4 University. That was not the scheme.
5 MR. CARNAGHI: No, sir.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Despite what it says
7 here in this letter.
8 MR. CARNAGHI: Well, it was actually
9 intended to be a lease of the entire project,
10 the land and the building. And I think that
11 letter -- I don't have it before me -- goes on
12 to say, at such time, the State will then
13 purchase the --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Land.
15 MR. CARNAGHI: It was intended to be land
16 and facility.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: All right.
18 MR. CARHAGHI: Again, for the obvious, the
19 Boosters have no need for a library processing
20 plant.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did you guys make any
22 profit on this?
23 MR. CARNAGHI: Profit?
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: You bought the land, you
25 built the building, you're selling it --
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1 MR. CARHAGHI: The --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- to us for the same
3 amount that you put into it?
4 MR. CARNAGHI: The fact is, the Boosters
5 are assuming about a $60,000 loss. We had it
6 appraised, and we're paying the appraised
7 value.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Would you have built
10 a similar facility if you built it yourself?
11 MR. CARNAGHI: Yes, sir.
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You would have built
13 an identical facility.
14 MR. CARNAGHI: Yes, sir.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay. This is not a
16 gold watch facility?
17 MR. CARNAGHI: No, sir. It's a --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Not a Cadillac when
19 we needed a --
20 MR. CARHAGHI: It's --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Ranger pickup?
22 MR. CARHAGHI: -- it's -- it's a Butler
23 building that has a little brick on the front
24 to make it look nice. But it's a very
25 effective library processing plant.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Just -- I mean,
2 so -- the way I see it, there was a -- a letter
3 to Charlie Reed, I guess they -- in January, a
4 very short time before the -- the letter from
5 Adam Herbert, so I guess they sort of
6 crisscrossed a little bit.
7 But what the end of that letter says that
8 came from Sandy D'Alemberte was that the
9 Boosters have the funds from the private sector
10 that are available then for the purchase. And
11 upon completion, these facilities would be
12 leased by the University until they could be
13 acquired by the State.
14 So they always had --
15 MR. CARNAGHI: Right.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the plan was
17 let them build it, expedite how fast it would
18 get built, the State buys it when they can.
19 MR. CARNAGHI: Yes.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: And -- and I vetoed exactly
21 this -- I vetoed a line item in the budget that
22 was -- that went around the PECO process or
23 something?
24 MR. CARNAGHI: No, sir. This was vetoed by
25 the former Governor.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Section -- but --
2 MR. CARNAGHI: This project -- this
3 project, I believe, was vetoed in '98 --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh. Good.
5 MR. CARNAGHI: -- by Governor Chiles.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oh. You
7 thought --
8 MR. CARNAGHI: I'm sorry. I didn't mention
9 which Governor.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Vetoed --
11 MR. CARHAGHI: The Governor vetoed --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Vetoed by a Gator.
13 MR. CARNAGHI: Not you, sir.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Move the project.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I feel better now.
16 MR. CARNAGHI: Sorry. Wrong Governor.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Seems to be a kind
19 of a shaky way of doing business.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, there was
21 a -- I -- you know, this was a -- an authorized
22 by the Legislature function that you see --
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, wonderful.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Doesn't --
25 you know --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's not the problem.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm not sure it's
3 the best way to do things. I'll have to --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're losing --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- say. But --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's a ringing
7 endorsement apparently.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, the -- like
9 it or not, they still set the policy on how
10 things can or can't be done. And --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: They do.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- and House --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, you're
14 a former Legislator --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- 4201 --
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Just to -- to make
17 sure the record is clear, they authorized the
18 Boosters to do this, they didn't say the State
19 should buy it.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, my concern is -- is
21 if this was part of some planning process that
22 this was a priority in our capital outlay
23 dollars being spent. And it looks like --
24 MR. CARNAGHI: Well, it certainly was
25 with --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is a different way.
2 MR. CARHAGHI: -- the University, and it
3 was with the Board of Regents, and it was with
4 the Legislature, and the Governor chose not to
5 fund it, but encouraged us to do the project
6 because we -- we had problems to deal with.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: The normal way of doing
8 this though, wouldn't it be to go through the
9 PECO process?
10 MR. CARNAGHI: Yes, sir.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Definitely.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's my point.
13 MR. CARNAGHI: Yes, sir. And we did. That
14 was blended. We went --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Part of it.
16 MR. CARNAGHI: -- both -- yes, sir.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. So you're half --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Some years when
19 there's less money in PECO, and more projects
20 that need to be done, I guess we found that the
21 universities have --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I was told by some Seminole
23 supporters that -- in -- in defense --
24 passionate defense of this project that the
25 University of Florida's Booster Club does this
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1 regularly.
2 Is that true?
3 MR. CARHAGHI: I --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I've not seen it as a --
5 MR. CARNAGHI: I don't know.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: But I'm new to the job.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I sure wouldn't be
8 surprised.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I think -- I
10 would think they do.
11 But I think it's -- it's like the
12 Nature Conservancy that advance purchases land
13 that we don't have the money for, ties it up,
14 makes it a good deal for the State.
15 And I think the same thing here, they were
16 able to move forward at the expansion of
17 women's athletics, which is important.
18 And so I think the Boosters really did a
19 favor to the State, take a little bit of loss.
20 So I -- I think it's -- all in all, it's a
21 good project.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well,
24 Governor, just for the record, the -- the
25 Gator Boosters also purchased an airplane, and
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1 the airplane is bigger than yours.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But -- but the F--
3 FDLE just confiscated a Leer jet we have our
4 eyes on.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Exactly.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And that is a
7 good -- we ought to have a discussion about
8 whether we ought to keep that for the State's
9 use or not.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Is there any doubt?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Next meeting maybe in
12 Panama City.
13 Any other -- any more discussion?
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Lucy finally got
15 something.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: You totally lost me.
17 There's been a motion and a second.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
20 approved.
21 Boy, something in the water today.
22 MR. STRUHS: Thanks, John.
23 MR. CARNAGHI: Sure.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for tolerating
25 our meeting today.
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1 Item 13.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Are you sure
3 you want to take us on the road, Governor?
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: We'll be better behaved.
5 MR. STRUHS: Recommending approval of
6 Item Number 13.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. STRUHS: I would point out, we're real
14 pleased with the fact we were able to do that
15 at 81 percent of the appraised value.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good work, David.
17 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 14, recommending
18 approval of that.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 14.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 15, recommending
25 approval.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 15.
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor, I would just
6 like to comment.
7 This seems like -- or ask the question of
8 Secretary Struhs --
9 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- how you were able to
11 do such a good negotiation on -- on that
12 purchase price looking at the two -- two
13 appraisals on Item 15.
14 MR. STRUHS: On Item 15?
15 Yes.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: That seems like we're
17 going in the right direction.
18 MR. STRUHS: Yeah. I think -- actually one
19 of the things that -- I don't know what kind of
20 paper you have in front of you. But what
21 they've done for me is -- is on every one of
22 these items show the percentage of appraised
23 value. So it's -- it's easier to keep a
24 running score.
25 But -- but a lot of them are coming in at
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1 under 100. In fact, most of them are.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: What percentage was that
3 one?
4 MR. STRUHS: This -- I'm sorry. This --
5 Item 15?
6 Well, 99. Ninety-nine --
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: It says --
8 MR. STRUHS: -- point seven.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- it says in my notes
10 here, the purchase price was four
11 seventy-three, when you had appraisal at
12 675,000 and 660,000.
13 MR. STRUHS: Right.
14 Well, what I could -- what I could do for
15 the --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: It was just a comment.
17 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's fine. It -- just
19 appreciate that you're moving in that
20 direction.
21 MR. STRUHS: What we can do for the
22 Cabinet, and -- and I'm sorry we haven't done
23 it sooner, is -- is on your briefings, actually
24 show percentage of a --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's great.
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1 MR. STRUHS: -- appraised value so you're
2 aware of that.
3 Thank you for raising it.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 16, we're
7 recommending approval of this item.
8 Mr. Greg Rivers from IFAS is available if you
9 have any questions.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 16.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
13 Without objection, it's approved.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Comment, Governor.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. Yeah.
16 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Just to follow up on
17 the Secretary of State's comment, what we do on
18 staying below the appraisal.
19 There's another way of solving the problem,
20 too, and that's to increase the appraisal. And
21 I note that the appraisal on this piece of
22 property doubled in -- in three years.
23 The original appraisal in 1997 was 200,000.
24 And now it's up over 400,000.
25 So there's more than one way of skinning
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1 the cat is what I'm --
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Early.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We'll see who's
4 getting skinned.
5 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry. General, were you
6 talking about Item 15 or 16?
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I was talking about
8 Item 16.
9 MR. STRUHS: Sixteen. All right.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: These are the same
11 people, by the way, that we sold that property
12 for very cheaply not too long ago on Highway 27
13 and -- and the Turnpike.
14 We sell cheap and buy high, I guess. Same
15 philosophy.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, you know,
17 it's interesting because we were trying to buy
18 it from the City, and they felt that the
19 changing market conditions were not reflected
20 in the offer. So basically they thought it was
21 too high then -- or too low.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Too low.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Whatever.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Just an observation.
25 That's all.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, General.
2 What item are we on?
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Sixteen.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sixteen?
5 Has there been a motion and a second?
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: And without objection, it's
9 approved.
10 Thank you.
11 Item 17.
12 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 17, we're
13 recommending approval of this item. And the
14 Chairman of the Brevard County Commission,
15 Nancy Higgs is here. Also Mr. Keith Fountain
16 of the Nature Conservancy.
17 If -- if it would be useful to the members,
18 I can give you a brief historical synopsis of
19 this item, or -- or not, whatever your pleasure
20 is.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I would move the
22 item.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I -- I need to make
25 a comment, Governor.
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1 We -- we're going to have a discussion --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- let people
4 talk --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. We're going to have
6 discussion on this one.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm with you.
9 MR. STRUHS: Let -- let me -- let me begin,
10 if I -- if I -- if I might, please, with giving
11 you sort of a -- a historical rendition of how
12 we got to where we are. And then -- and invite
13 Chairman Higgs to come forward.
14 Back in 1995, Brevard County accepted a --
15 as -- as a donation, a one-half undivided
16 interest in this island property.
17 Mr. John Downey, a private citizen, held the
18 other one-half undivided interest.
19 In 1997, Mr. Downey asserted his intentions
20 to partition that property, and went to court
21 to come up with an equitable partition.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Partition or plat --
23 what -- what do you mean by "partition?"
24 MR. STRUHS: Because Brevard County was
25 given a undivided one-half interest --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
2 MR. STRUHS: -- in this property --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: I got you.
4 MR. STRUHS: And -- and -- and when the
5 other party wanted to separate out, they went
6 to court to seek what -- what would be an
7 equitable partition.
8 At that point, Brevard County entered into
9 mediation discussions with Mr. Downey. The
10 result was a negotiated acquisition price of
11 one million eight hundred and fifty thousand
12 dollars. For that amount, Brevard County would
13 acquire the -- the second half from Mr. Downey.
14 At that point, the County, Brevard County
15 approached the Board of Trustees, brought to
16 our attention that this acquisition is about
17 one part of a larger, on-going, bargain shared
18 CARL project, and that at this -- and,
19 of course, in those instances, we're seeking a
20 50/50 match with local and State funds. And he
21 pointed out that, at that point, that the State
22 had not yet contributed.
23 The Division of State Lands proceeded with
24 that, and secured an appraisal of the entire
25 parcel, both -- both halves, the full
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1 182 acres.
2 The appraisal came in at one million five
3 hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars,
4 which would give to the State, through the
5 Board of Trustees, a 100 percent interest in
6 all of that acreage.
7 This clearly raises the issue of -- of the
8 difference between the one million five hundred
9 and seventy-five thousand dollars that the
10 State would pay to acquire the 100 percent
11 interest, and the one million eight hundred and
12 fifty thousand dollars for which Brevard County
13 would acquire the land from Mr. Downey -- or
14 has acquired the land from Mr. Downey.
15 Indeed, the -- the way this has worked out
16 is, if it's approved, the Board of Trustees
17 would take the title for the lower figure, for
18 the appraised value, and Brevard County would
19 pay the difference, which is --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Three hundred and
21 something --
22 MR. STRUHS: -- $285,000 to Mr. Downey.
23 So thank you for giving me the chance to
24 make that statement.
25 And then Chairman Higgs is -- is available
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1 to speak to us.
2 Thank you.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good afternoon. Or good
4 morning still.
5 MS. HIGGS: Good morning.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are your County Commission
7 meetings as -- as interesting as our Cabinet
8 meetings?
9 MS. HIGGS: Absolutely.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Great.
11 We'll come down and visit.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'm sure they are.
13 MS. HIGGS: I -- I felt right at home, and
14 glad you were up there, and I was down here.
15 I'd be happy to respond to questions,
16 Governor, or to anyone on the Cabinet who would
17 like to ask questions.
18 I think the questions that are -- are most
19 relevant to you all are in regard to price.
20 We -- and if I might just explain very briefly.
21 As Secretary Struhs stated, the
22 Brevard County Commission, pursuant to
23 settlement of the litigation involving the
24 petition, is interested in acquiring the parcel
25 at 1.8.
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1 The State -- that -- that price that we are
2 acquiring represents one-half of the average of
3 the appraisals. So it is less than the average
4 of the appraisals that we had pursuant to that
5 litigation.
6 So the -- the --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's less than?
8 MS. HIGGS: The --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: But higher -- but higher
10 than our appraisal, I guess.
11 MS. HIGGS: That's correct.
12 Involved in the litigation, settlement
13 negotiations, appraisals were obtained. And
14 the 1.8 represents less than half the average
15 of the appraisals that were attained in that
16 process.
17 The appraisal you have is the 1.57. And
18 that is the price at which we would sell the
19 entire parcel to you all.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I have one
21 question, Governor.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
23 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I -- I
24 don't -- Commissioner, you're saying that --
25 that the 1.8 is less than one-half the
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1 appraisal, which means that the appraisal was
2 more than 3.6 million?
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
4 MS. HIGGS: Yes, sir.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: And our --
6 and our appraisal, David, for the whole thing
7 is 1.5?
8 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Wow.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, did -- was
11 there a use allowed on this -- on these islands
12 that was looked at included in it when the --
13 the other appraisal was done? I mean, the
14 developable --
15 MS. HIGGS: The appraisals were based on
16 similar assumptions in directions to the
17 appraisers.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does this property have any
19 development rights on it?
20 MS. HIGGS: I'm sorry?
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there any development --
22 underlying development rights to this property?
23 MS. HIGGS: Yes, there are development
24 rights to it.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- and they were --
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1 they -- when did they -- when did the owner of
2 the property get those development rights?
3 MS. HIGGS: The -- there is a zoning on the
4 property that would allow development on the
5 property. So those development --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: When did that --
7 MS. HIGGS: -- rights --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- when did that take pl--
9 was that a long time ago, was that --
10 MS. HIGGS: Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: So the -- so the -- the --
12 the owner purchased this property with
13 development rights in hand.
14 MS. HIGGS: The owners -- the original
15 owners, of which Mr. Downey was one, purchased
16 the properties many years ago. And they
17 originally had proposed that a large
18 development -- currently the zoning on the
19 property would allow approximately 17 to
20 18 units, depending on the acreage and --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: The reason I ask that is we
22 had a case where -- in -- as I recall, it was
23 Pinellas County where we were the basic --
24 I mean, the way I read it, I'm not sure
25 everybody agreed with me, we were bailing out
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1 the County Commission for granting development
2 rights, and then increasing the value because
3 of that, and then we came in and bought the
4 property at that higher price, which was --
5 it -- you're not -- you're not doing that here.
6 MS. HIGGS: No, sir, we're not. The -- the
7 process that has occurred over the many years
8 that the discussions occurred about the islands
9 have -- there's actually been a -- a decrease
10 in the zoning from what would be a GU, a
11 general use, to an environmental, which went to
12 one to ten units per acre.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The -- when this
14 original appraisal was done at the -- the
15 appraisals were based on the critical
16 assumption that building permits could be
17 obtained to develop at least 18 residential
18 home sites --
19 MS. HIGGS: Yes, sir.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- on these
21 islands. So that's a big difference from not
22 being able to develop them at all.
23 MS. HIGGS: Well, not --
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Oh, no. That's not
25 right.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- appraisal was based
2 on that as well.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Ours is still on
4 the 18?
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Absolutely.
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's the
7 same way.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- could --
11 Commissioner, could you explain the difference
12 in why your appraisal would come in more than
13 twice as much as -- as ours?
14 Do you know --
15 MS. HIGGS: If I were able to tell you what
16 goes on in all of the appraisals on islands in
17 the state of Florida, I would probably be in a
18 different position than I am today.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: It's amazing.
20 MS. HIGGS: It -- the -- the appraisals
21 that -- that we have seen on islands vary
22 considerably. And perhaps your staff could
23 speak to -- and State lands could speak to that
24 variance better than I. I'm certainly not an
25 expert on that.
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1 But, Secretary Harris, those -- those
2 values vary considerably throughout the state.
3 And even on the east coast of Florida, not too
4 far south of here, there's considerable
5 discussion on some islands that I think you all
6 have been involved with on Lost Tree, and those
7 appraisals -- you have similar kinds of issues.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes, Commissioner, I've
9 never seen one come in twice as much as -- ones
10 that come in twice as much as another though.
11 That's just really interesting.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: David, can you explain the
13 difference, not that the -- that islands have
14 different valuations, because that's -- that's
15 very accurate, I'm sure. But the difference
16 between the valuation of two appraisals that we
17 had, and the appraisal of the County on this
18 island.
19 That -- that's the question.
20 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
21 I'm going to ask that Mr. Keith Fountain,
22 who actually was intimately involved in this
23 from the Nature Conservancy, speak to these
24 issues, if -- if that's all right.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: If he can answer the
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1 question about appraisals, that'd be great.
2 That's my question.
3 MR. STRUHS: Specifically as it relates to
4 this island, the State of Florida, as a
5 government, was not involved at all in the
6 discussions, the mediation, between the two --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that. But
8 the --
9 MR. STRUHS: -- shareholders.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we have two appraisals
11 that I see here, Mr. Boyle and Mr. Rex, at
12 one three and one five.
13 And what we're saying is -- I mean, the --
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Three six.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the County's was what?
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Three six.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Three six.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: At least we're on
19 the low end of it.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. But we're -- we're
21 paying on the --
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Usually we're --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- high end though.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- the other way
25 around.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We're paying high
2 end.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're paying on the
4 high end, and we're appraising on the low end.
5 I'd just like an explanation of why it is.
6 MR. STRUHS: Well, Governor, actually
7 Mr. Fountain can do that better than I.
8 But the -- the County in -- in negotiating
9 with Mr. Downey to acquire the other half
10 interest in the 182 acres got a number of
11 appraisals, some that I think were in excess of
12 6 million dollars.
13 That was a discussion, negotiation, between
14 two half-shareholders to determine how the
15 County could take over --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand.
17 MR. STRUHS: -- full interest.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm asking a simple
19 question about why our appraisals would be
20 half, as I understand it, of what the -- what
21 the County's appraisals are.
22 Is that correct?
23 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: And we're paying --
25 MR. STRUHS: Less than.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- full price. It's just a
2 basic question, that if we can answer that
3 accurately, we might be able to go have lunch.
4 It's a --
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: I --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- simple question.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- I have a question on
8 that, too.
9 And that is: If you were acquiring an
10 undivided interest, and you were -- it might
11 have more to do if this -- if the entire
12 property was valued at 6 million, and half of
13 it was donated previously in 1995, what was the
14 value of that donation?
15 I mean, if the donation was -- you know,
16 3 million, I mean, it's just interesting how
17 these -- all these eval-- how these valuations
18 occur.
19 What it was accounted for -- what --
20 you know, to what -- what that donation was
21 attributed at I guess would be the question.
22 MR. STRUHS: I'm sorry if I'm not being
23 clear. But -- but the -- the proposal that
24 came to the State, as part of this CARL
25 project, was to acquire it. And the Division
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1 of State Lands typically goes out, gets two
2 appraisals, and then we follow the rules, and
3 we -- we -- we take the highest approved
4 value --
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: Tell you what, if you
6 could just answer the Governor's question,
7 or -- or have whomever can, that'd be great.
8 MR. STRUHS: Maybe I don't understand the
9 question, sir.
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Maybe somebody else
11 could answer the appraisal that --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Can you answer the
13 question?
14 Please come in. Do it. It'd be great.
15 MR. STEELE: Governor, honorable members of
16 the Cabinet, it's a simple answer in that --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Why don't you just for the
18 record say who you are.
19 MR. STEELE: My name is Jason Steele. I am
20 the broker for Mr. and Mrs. -- Mr. Downey.
21 There was two -- two sets of instructions
22 given to the appraisers. The appraisers that
23 did the original appraisals for the County were
24 given the instructions that they were, in fact,
25 developable islands, which they are developable
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1 islands.
2 The instructions --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Bas--
4 MR. STEELE: Yes, sir?
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Based on --
6 MR. STEELE: Based on all of the data that
7 the County --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: How many units?
9 MR. STEELE: For 18 units --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Eighteen.
11 MR. STEELE: -- sir.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Eighteen units.
13 MR. STEELE: Yes, sir.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: So that's -- so that was
15 the --
16 MR. STEELE: That were the instructions.
17 The instructions that were given to the
18 other two appraisers for the State, they went
19 out and did their independent study. Their
20 independent study said there was no island
21 ordinance in effect. Therefore, you needed a
22 bridge.
23 However, that is not accurate. So what
24 they did is they said, well, unless you build a
25 bridge there, you couldn't per-- you can't --
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1 you can't permit 18 units, which is not the
2 case, because within 500 to 1,000 feet of this
3 island, there are other islands that have been
4 developed and been permitted without a bridge.
5 So that's the reason why the appraisals
6 came in twice as high on the original
7 appraisers, and half what those appraisals
8 were, because one appraiser basically took the
9 approach that there was no permitting for a
10 bridge there, because there was no island
11 ordinance in effect --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, two appraisals
13 didn't --
14 MR. STEELE: Yes, sir. That's correct. So
15 that's the reason for it.
16 And unfortunately -- unfortunately, what's
17 happened is is that one appraiser basically
18 took the approach that, since there was no
19 island ordinance in effect, that, in fact, that
20 the islands were undevelopable --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
22 MR. STEELE: -- which is not accurate.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, I -- I guess
24 I'd like to know why we gave our appraisers
25 that instruction. I mean, why are we doing --
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1 MR. STEELE: I think he did that
2 independently, sir.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let -- let --
4 MR. STEELE: I don't think the instructions
5 were given to him.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jason, let the --
7 MR. STEELE: I think he did it
8 independently.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let the Secretary or --
10 MR. STEELE: Yes, sir.
11 MR. FOUNTAIN: Governor, Cabinet members,
12 Keith Fountain with the Nature Conservancy. I
13 wish I was an appraiser right now, maybe I
14 could answer this question.
15 I also find myself in a little bit of an
16 uncharacteristic position. This is not a
17 Nature Conservancy deal.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
19 MR. FOUNTAIN: This is a Brevard County
20 Commission deal. They are settling a lawsuit.
21 But I think I can shed a little bit of light on
22 this.
23 First of all, we are the land acquisition
24 services contractor for Brevard County
25 Environmentally Endangered Lands Program, the
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1 EEL Program.
2 After the lawsuit appraisals were obtained,
3 the EEL Program had the desire to go appraise
4 the property, using your standards, so that
5 those -- to get appraisals that the EEL Program
6 and the State could use, the Division of State
7 Lands. That generated the 1.575 number that
8 you have before you today.
9 I think the question -- or the answer,
10 Governor, to your question is, we're looking at
11 the nature of the beast here, and that these
12 are islands, and that the opinions of value are
13 all over the place.
14 What you've got is this: In the lawsuit,
15 two appraisals were obtained, one by the
16 landowner, one by the County. Both of them
17 assumed existing zoning, and boat access
18 islands. I think this put aside this idea of
19 bridging right now.
20 Boat access to the islands. The two
21 numbers were, I think, off the top of my head,
22 3.14 million dollars, and 6.44 million dollars.
23 So you average those two, and it's less
24 than half of that is what the County's buying
25 their property for.
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1 Now, that was all generated before the
2 EEL Program went and got its appraisals.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: How big are these lots?
4 MR. FOUNTAIN: They would be 10-acre lots.
5 The islands are 187 acres, 153 acres of
6 uplands. They're substantially upland.
7 You're talking about 18 units, one unit per
8 10 acres. And you --
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
10 MR. FOUNTAIN: Any -- any more questions?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. I was looking -- it's
12 starting to come into --
13 Any other discussion?
14 I still -- I still don't understand how the
15 State started with a flawed premise on its
16 appraisal. I mean, I can understand why the
17 valuations may be different. But why would
18 we -- why would we start with a premise that --
19 that we had to have a bridge when we didn't?
20 MR. FOUNTAIN: The -- the State's
21 appraisals, Governor, do not assume that. The
22 appraisers on the State side looked at this
23 also as a boat access island.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: So it was done on
25 the same basis as far as you know.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: Well, and -- and
2 Secretary Struhs said -- Secretary Struhs said
3 that the criteria were -- were virtually
4 similar.
5 MR. FOUNTAIN: Yes.
6 The three appraisals -- if you look at
7 the -- the high one in the litigation assumed
8 it as-is zoning, and I believe off the top of
9 my head, boat access.
10 I know the one the County obtained for
11 3.14 million dollars, boat access, he was
12 actually at 17 units. Because they had a
13 different area figure.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yeah.
15 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
16 MR. FOUNTAIN: The ones that were obtained
17 by the EEL Program assumed 18 development
18 units, and boat access. All the same thing.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: You know, we -- we
21 need to try to resolve this issue, and I'm not
22 sure I can support it the way it is right now.
23 But this is a -- a bargain share.
24 There is a price tag of 8 -- 1.85 on this
25 thing. If the State was willing to go
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1 50 percent on it in the bargain share basis, I
2 could probably live with this thing.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But we're buying
4 the whole thing.
5 MR. STRUHS: The -- General, if I -- if I
6 could respond to that, because this has to be
7 considered in -- in the larger context. The
8 bargain --
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
10 MR. STRUHS: -- shared project --
11 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I understand.
12 MR. STRUHS: -- at this -- at this point,
13 the County --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm trying to -- I'm
15 trying to get out of this dilemma, because this
16 is -- you know, we wind up, once again, here's
17 a -- here's a guy that's got a piece of
18 property that's appraised at approximately
19 800,000. And we're going to pay him 1.8.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But we're not.
21 He's settling a lawsuit with the County, and
22 the County has agreed to buy this land for 1.8.
23 We're not involved in that at all.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes. But we're
25 underwriting 1.4 of it.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
2 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Or 1.5.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Madam Chairman, can I ask
4 you a question?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They've got to buy
6 it either way.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Got a -- can you -- what
8 will happen if we vote no here, just out of
9 curiosity?
10 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
11 MS. HIGGS: It will move forward in the
12 legal process to petition.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They'll have to
14 buy it, sooner or later.
15 MS. HIGGS: And to divide the property, and
16 then the County will have a certain part of it,
17 and the land owner would have the other.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, let --
19 let me take one crack at it here.
20 The question is is -- is -- is the
21 appraisal at 3.6 million a val-- you know, what
22 it's worth. If you take 18 lots, 10-acre lots,
23 in probably one of the most beautiful places in
24 the world, on the water, could you sell them
25 for 200,000 a lot.
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1 I think the answer is yes.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Sure you could.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So it is probably
4 worth 3.6.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well then, we need to go
6 get our appraisers to get upgraded on the
7 realities of --
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I agree
9 with --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- real estate prices on
11 east central Florida.
12 I mean, I --
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, and I
14 think -- I think appraisers make certain
15 assumptions when they're doing an appraisal.
16 And -- and I -- apparently the assumption that
17 was made here was some of them were not --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I --
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- all that good.
20 But it's -- I don't know.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Here's the deal. I mean,
22 we just -- we -- we had 85 percent of the
23 appraised value and -- three items before, and
24 we were all very proud of that. And this one's
25 200 percent of appraised value, and I've got a
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1 problem with that.
2 I just -- I -- we do look like -- I just --
3 maybe I'm wrong, and maybe it's only anecdotal.
4 But I just get the sense that we do -- whoever
5 said that we -- we -- we buy high and we sell
6 low.
7 MS. HIGGS: Governor, if -- if I might add,
8 in this case, the -- the presentation earlier
9 that Commissioner Crawford made in terms of
10 profit, the County is actually buying at the
11 1.85, you're buying at the appraised value.
12 We will leave on the table 275,000. So the
13 profit -- we're not making a profit. We're --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know you're not.
15 MS. HIGGS: -- actually losing, and you're
16 becoming the 100 percent owner at the appraised
17 value.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: But -- but that's -- it's
19 still a piece of property, and it's still
20 overall, together, we're paying significantly
21 more than what our appraisal said.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, is
23 there a chance that we can just get it
24 reappraised? I mean --
25 MS. HIGGS: No, sir, we're not.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Governor, maybe I did a poor
2 job of -- of -- of explaining this. And if I
3 could try again.
4 We are -- we -- we went through the normal
5 State-approved process for determining the
6 value of the land. The approved value came in
7 at one point-- one million five hundred and
8 seventy-five thousand dollars. We're
9 recommending it here for approval at that
10 price.
11 So it's -- it's actually 100 percent of the
12 approved appraised value.
13 The -- the earlier higher appraisals, in
14 terms of what the land was arguably worth, was
15 done without any State involvement between the
16 two half-interest owners, the -- Mr. Downey
17 and --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand that.
19 But you were asked the question, was the --
20 whatever the number was, three eight or
21 three -- the -- the doubled appraised price --
22 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- was it an apple to apple
24 comparison to the million five appraisal you
25 got; and you said, yes, it is.
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1 MR. STRUHS: They used similar assumptions.
2 But obviously --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's an apple to apple
4 comparison.
5 MR. STRUHS: But the --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's --
7 MR. STRUHS: -- but the -- but the
8 appraisers came back with obviously very
9 different --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're valuing the same
11 property.
12 MR. STRUHS: Correct.
13 So actually from -- and -- and maybe I --
14 maybe I'm missing something. But I think it's
15 actually a -- at worst, it's a fair deal; and
16 at best, it's a good deal.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Uh-hum.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, let me take
19 another crack at it here.
20 On my sheet here, it says the approved
21 value is based on our two appraisals,
22 1.575 million. And we're paying -- and the
23 seller's purchase price is 1.8. So --
24 MR. STRUHS: No. No. The --
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: And the Trustees'
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1 price is 1.5.
2 MR. STRUHS: The way this item is supposed
3 to read, and I -- I think it does, is -- is if
4 you approve the item, you would agree to
5 purchase the property at the State-approved
6 value.
7 We -- we -- we used the State process to
8 determine what the value is, we determined it
9 was one million five hundred and seventy-five
10 thousand dollars, we bring the item to you with
11 a recommendation that you acquire it at that
12 price.
13 All the activity prior to that was between
14 the two --
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right.
16 MR. STRUHS: -- half-interest holders.
17 Brevard County in those negotiations, came up
18 with appraisals that were substantially higher.
19 To the extent that there would now be a
20 difference, that difference is --
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We're paying the
22 lower.
23 MR. STRUHS: Yeah, we're paying the lower.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think the
25 Attorney General had the -- when he did the
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1 analysis a while ago, was saying that -- that
2 we're paying 3.6, when, in fact, we're -- we're
3 paying 1.5.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: You're actually paying a
5 hundred --
6 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- thousand --
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: We're paying
9 1.5, but the -- but --
10 MR. STRUHS: The -- the difference will be
11 swallowed by Brevard County.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Right.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: And I don't think
14 everybody understands that. I think --
15 MR. STRUHS: Okay.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- what we may
17 have here is that the first appraisals were
18 done on a retail value of these lots sold
19 individually for 8 -- 18 individual lots. And
20 when the State buys it, we do not buy it on a
21 retail level, we buy it on the wholesale level.
22 And the -- our appraiser instructed to do
23 it on a wholesale level.
24 And when the other -- when you're only
25 talking 18 lots, I think you can have -- find
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1 that kind of a difference. So that may well
2 explain why we are seeing the first appraisal
3 be so high.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions,
5 comments?
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Again, my math is
7 rather rudimentary, I suppose. But the --
8 Mr. Downey on a basis of our appraisal should
9 be paid approximately half of 16 --
10 1.6 million.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. I think --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: On -- on the basis
13 of our appraisal. Half of the property.
14 That's all we're buying. That's all the --
15 that's all -- not what we're buying. That's
16 what the City --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We're not --
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- is buying.
19 Just a minute.
20 The City is buying a half of that island.
21 Based on our appraisal, they should pay him
22 approximately $800,000, based on our appraisal.
23 However, they are paying him 1.8 million
24 dollars. And that doesn't make a whole lot of
25 sense to me.
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1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'm -- I'm sorry.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: It's the
3 City's problem.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Regardless of the
5 fact that we're buying the whole island from
6 the City for our appraised value. It just
7 doesn't make any sense to me.
8 MS. HIGGS: You're buying the entire parcel
9 from Brevard County at your appraised value.
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: The -- the
11 taxpayers. The taxpayers of this state are
12 buying it.
13 MS. HIGGS: And the -- and the taxpayers of
14 Brevard County, in -- pursuant to the settling
15 of the litigation on the partitioning went
16 through appraisals, and those appraisals
17 indicated the two values, the average of which,
18 one-half, we are paying to Mr. Downey.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: But, David, just -- I want
20 to make sure -- I -- now, I think we may have
21 gotten a little confused.
22 Are we -- are we paying -- we're buying
23 100 percent of this island.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Uh-hum.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Right.
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1 MR. STRUHS: Yes.
2 MS. HIGGS: Islands.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Islands, excuse me. For --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: One point --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- for --
6 MR. STRUHS: One hundred percent appraised
7 value.
8 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Appraised
9 value.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: For -- no, for your appra--
11 the -- not the appraisals that were given by
12 our state, which is our responsibility to look
13 at. We're paying double what that appraisal --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No, no.
15 MS. HIGGS: No.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: We're paying --
17 MS. HIGGS: You're paying --
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: No.
19 MS. HIGGS: -- your appraised value.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, when I asked you the
21 question about 30 minutes ago and we started
22 down this path, it would have been a lot easier
23 to -- to maybe get this resolved.
24 MR. STRUHS: I'm -- I -- I apologize if --
25 if I was not clear. I -- I attempted in -- in
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1 going through that historical rendition before
2 we got here, address all those issues --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other comments?
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secretary Struhs, we are
5 buying the entire property -- the entire
6 property is being purchased 100 percent at
7 1.8 of --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
9 MS. HIGGS: No, ma'am. No, ma'am.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: What -- no. At --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Total price.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: Wait, wait, wait. Let
13 me -- let me just --
14 -- at 1.8, of which 1.5 is the State's
15 responsibility.
16 MS. HIGGS: No.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No.
18 MR. STRUHS: No.
19 MS. HIGGS: No, ma'am.
20 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
21 MS. HIGGS: You're buying -- you're buying
22 100 percent from Brevard County --
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
24 MS. HIGGS: -- at 1.57, which is the
25 appraised value --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: You say it is --
2 MS. HIGGS: -- your appraised value.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: And you're -- and you're
4 doing -- and the County is doing --
5 MS. HIGGS: The County is going to buy the
6 other interest at 1.85.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: The County owns
8 half --
9 MS. HIGGS: And -- and will leave -- leave
10 about 280,000 on the table in the process.
11 We're bringing --
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We're going to
13 settle --
14 MS. HIGGS: -- to you --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- a lawsuit on
16 ownership.
17 MR. STRUHS: Another -- another way of
18 looking at it, if -- if I might, is --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: I still say we're doubling
20 the --
21 MR. STRUHS: -- we -- with all -- with all
22 due respect to -- to Brevard County, we don't
23 really care how Brevard County and how
24 Mr. Downey did or didn't --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
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1 MR. STRUHS: -- transfer these interests.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: So -- okay. So for the
3 whole island for the -- for the 18 lots, we're
4 paying 1.5, which means that it's actually
5 going to be less than 100,000 a lot, instead of
6 what we all agreed that 200,000 for 10 acres
7 would be a reasonable price.
8 The State of Florida is actually paying
9 1.575 --
10 MR. STRUHS: Right.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- for 18 lots, which is
12 going to be less than 100,000 a lot, right?
13 MR. STRUHS: Right.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. That's what I
15 thought. And it's -- and whatever Broward --
16 whatever Brevard does is --
17 MR. STRUHS: So -- so whatever -- whatever
18 the --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's what I thought.
20 MR. STRUHS: -- arrangement was between
21 Mr. Downey and Brevard County is -- is -- is
22 immaterial, because the --
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Still taxpayers. But --
24 MR. STRUHS: -- the item -- right.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, but -- but,
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1 David, on the appraisal by the State --
2 MR. STRUHS: Yes, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- at 1.575, was
4 that for a half interest?
5 MR. STRUHS: But we --
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: No.
7 MR. STRUHS: That's the full interest.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Full interest.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You may
10 not -- you may not buy it.
11 MR. STRUHS: You're -- you're getting
12 100 percent of the interest for 100 percent of
13 the appraised value. And we're using our
14 appraisal, which is --
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: But the County's
16 paying, again, you know, the 1.8, I guess. So
17 the total purchase price is really the 3.6, or
18 something like that.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yeah. The State's
20 getting a --
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We're getting --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- good value, but the
23 taxpayers are taking it.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: The County's
25 picking up the rest.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor, I
3 just want to -- here to me, just something
4 seems fairly flawed.
5 I mean, with -- with one appraisal being
6 40 percent of the other appraisal, David, is
7 there a chance that the State appraisers
8 thought this was what we thought it was, and
9 that was a -- what do you call it, a bargain
10 price where the County pays half, and the State
11 pays half?
12 And -- and, therefore, it gets on the
13 agenda quicker, where the appraiser just
14 appraised half of the value, as opposed to --
15 MR. STRUHS: No.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. Well, we're --
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: So then --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we're -- I think
19 we've -- we've made it clear that we're -- when
20 I got -- everybody said no, I think I'm still
21 accurate to say that the government, County
22 government and State government, the taxpayers
23 of the state of Florida, are paying double what
24 our State appraisal said.
25 And that, I'm going to vote no on, unless
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1 you can figure out a better way to come do it.
2 MR. STRUHS: No, I -- Governor, I -- I --
3 I think -- I think maybe I should start over.
4 You know --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, because I think the
6 majority of the members of this Cabinet believe
7 that we are paying -- we're buying for
8 3.6 million dollars --
9 MS. HIGGS: No, sir. No --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- total --
11 MS. HIGGS: Abso--
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- total --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: No.
14 MS. HIGGS: May I --
15 MR. STRUHS: Yeah.
16 MS. HIGGS: -- try one more time.
17 We will settle the -- the partitioning
18 litigation with -- with the owner -- other
19 owner at 1.8. We will turn around in a
20 simultaneous closing with the State of Florida,
21 you will receive the total value of the
22 island -- that you'll receive all of the
23 islands at the appraised value that -- that
24 your appraisers have said.
25 MR. STRUHS: Another -- another way of
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1 putting it is Brevard County -- well -- well --
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's the
3 difference --
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Did you say --
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- between 1.850,
6 versus 1.575 is --
7 MR. STRUHS: It's a diff--
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- what you're --
9 MR. STRUHS: -- it's a difference of --
10 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- what you're
11 eating --
12 MR. STRUHS: -- what, $285,000.
13 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- at the County.
14 MS. HIGGS: And -- and we will pay that.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So a couple
16 hundred --
17 MS. HIGGS: But it's not being paid twice,
18 Governor, it's being paid --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, thank you.
20 MS. HIGGS: -- one time.
21 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I've got it.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: So we still end up
24 paying about $100,000 a lot. That's it.
25 MS. HIGGS: Yes, ma'am.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Yes. Total. Okay.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good God.
4 All right.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So it's a good
6 deal for us, even though it was a bad deal for
7 the County.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: It's probably a
9 good deal for --
10 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: It's a very -- very
11 good deal for Mr. Downey. He is the man that
12 is --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But --
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- making out.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- but, you know,
16 we -- I'm sure it is.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I think I'd take --
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- no doubt about
19 it. But it's -- it's land we want to acquire.
20 And it's a -- and it's a fair price for us to
21 acquire that --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- other
24 purchases.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: There is a motion and a
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1 second, I believe, isn't there?
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Yes.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor, say aye.
4 THE CABINET: Aye.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
8 The ayes have it.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Onward.
10 MR. STRUHS: We have one more item,
11 Item Number 18.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming.
13 MR. STRUHS: Item Number 18, we're
14 recommending approval of the acquisition of the
15 2,292 acres of land, and partial settlement of
16 pending litigation under the terms of the
17 proposed settlement agreement.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second?
21 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 Thank you all very much.
25
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1 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
2 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
3 * * *
4 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
5 12:16 p.m.)
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1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 200 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 22ND day of SEPTEMBER, 2000.
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23 LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
100 Salem Court
24 Tallahassee, Florida 32301
850/878-2221
25
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