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T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION SITING BOARD
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES
VOLUME I
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
July 25, 2000, commencing at approximately 9:15 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
2
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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July 25, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION:
(Presented by Tom Herndon,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 5
2 Approved 6
3 Approved 6
4 Approved 6
5 Approved 7
6 Approved 7
7 Approved 8
8 Approved 8
9 Approved 9
10 Approved 11
11 For Information Only 11
12 Approved 12
13 For Information Only 12
14 Approved 16
15 Deferred 17
16 For Information Only 17
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE:
(Presented by J. Ben Watkins, III,
Director)
1 Approved 20
2 Approved 21
3 Approved 22
4 Approved 22
5 Approved 23
6 Approved 23
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS:
(Presented by Robin Higgins,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 24
2 Approved 24
3 For Information Only 27
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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July 25, 2000
I N D E X
(Continued)
ITEM ACTION PAGE
DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT:
(Presented by James T. Moore,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 38
2 Approved 38
3 Approved 42
4 Approved 42
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE:
(Presented by James A. Zingale, Ph.D.,
Executive Director)
1 Approved 44
2 For Information Only 44
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION:
(Presented by Wayne V. Pierson,
Deputy Commissioner)
1 Approved 71
2 Withdrawn --
3 Approved 73
4 Approved 73
5 through 14 Withdrawn 73
15 Approved 74
16 Approved 79
17 Approved 80
18 Approved 80
19 Approved 81
20 Approved 81
21 through 27 Approved 82
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
SITING BOARD:
(Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
1 Approved 83
2 Approved 83
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 85
* * *
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 5
July 25, 2000
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (The agenda items commenced at 9:53 a.m.)
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of
4 Administration.
5 MR. HERNDON: Good morning, Governor,
6 members of the Board.
7 Item Number 1 is approval of the minutes of
8 the meeting held July 11th.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move the minutes.
10 TREASURER NELSON: And second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: You moved it already?
12 I'm sorry.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Yes.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 2 is approval of
17 a fiscal sufficiency of an amount not exceeding
18 220 million dollars, State of Florida, full --
19 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
20 MR. HERNDON: -- faith and credit, State
21 Board of Education Public Education Capital
22 Outlay Bonds.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 2.
24 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 6
July 25, 2000
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 3 is approval of
3 a fiscal sufficiency not exceeding twenty-four
4 million four hundred thousand dollar State of
5 Florida, Board of Regents, bond series for
6 Florida Atlantic University.
7 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 3.
8 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 4 is approval of
12 a fiscal determination of an amount not
13 exceeding twelve million two hundred thousand
14 dollar tax exempt, and two million
15 three hundred and fifty thousand dollar,
16 taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation
17 Housing Revenue Bonds for Broward County for
18 the Villa de Mallorca Apartments.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 4.
20 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 5 is approval of
24 a fiscal determination not exceeding
25 ten million ten thousand dollar tax exempt, and
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 7
July 25, 2000
1 six million two hundred and sixty-- two hundred
2 and seventy-five thousand dollar taxable,
3 Florida Housing Finance Corporation Housing
4 Revenue Bonds for the Sundance Pointe
5 Apartments in Duval County.
6 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 5.
7 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 6 is approval of
11 a fiscal determination of an amount not
12 exceeding seven million two hundred thousand
13 dollar tax exempt, and one million
14 eight hundred and thirty thousand dollar
15 taxable Florida Housing Finance Corporation
16 Housing Revenue Bond for Indian River County
17 for the Walker Avenue Club Apartments.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 6.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 7 is approval of
23 a fiscal determination of an amount not
24 exceeding eleven million forty-five thousand
25 dollar tax exempt, and five million six hundred
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 8
July 25, 2000
1 and sixty-five thousand dollar taxable Florida
2 Housing Finance Corporation Housing Revenue
3 Bond for the Sabal Chase Apartments in
4 St. Lucie County.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 7.
6 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
8 Without objection, it's approved.
9 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 8 is approval of
10 a fiscal determination of an amount not
11 exceeding fourteen million two hundred thousand
12 dollar Florida Housing Finance Corporation
13 Housing Revenue Bonds for the --
14 Pinellas County for Riverside Apartments.
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 8.
16 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 9 is approval of
20 a fiscal determination of an amount not
21 exceeding twelve million nine hundred and
22 sixty-five thousand dollar tax exempt, and
23 six million three hundred and twenty-five
24 thousand dollar taxable Florida Housing Finance
25 Corporation Housing Revenue Bonds for
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 9
July 25, 2000
1 Seminole County for the Stratford Pointe
2 Apartments.
3 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Move Item 9.
4 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 10 is to
8 recommend for your consideration proxy
9 guidelines for our international portfolio.
10 As you'll recall, members, we have had
11 proxy voting guidelines for our domestic equity
12 holdings for many years. And as the size of
13 the international portfolio has grown, we've
14 been working on developing these same kind of
15 guidelines for those in --
16 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
17 MR. HERNDON: -- in the international
18 managers with the international portfolio now
19 approximately 12 percent of the total Board
20 assets, or about 12 billion dollars. We did
21 propose these.
22 We did submit an amendment after the fact
23 governing some tobacco related matters,
24 Governor. But other than that, I believe
25 they're ready for your consideration.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 10
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: What are the tobacco
2 related matters?
3 MR. HERNDON: Well, frankly, through an
4 oversight on our part, we just didn't have any
5 guidance in there on international tobacco.
6 As you'll recall, when the Board divested
7 of tobacco -- directed the divestiture back in
8 1997, we did not divest on the international
9 side. And as a consequence, we had no policy
10 on international tobacco.
11 And we just inserted a policy here to
12 encourage our international managers to be
13 mindful of the fact that we are less than
14 enthusiastic about tobacco holdings
15 domestically, and to bear that in mind.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom, the question of these
17 guide-- this -- this guidance, this is all
18 secondary to prudent investment decisions?
19 I mean, if --
20 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- in terms --
22 MR. HERNDON: As part of the corporate
23 governance process of the Board, we're
24 primarily interested in shareholder values. So
25 we adopt a series of guidelines, principally as
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 11
July 25, 2000
1 it relates to our equity holdings, where you
2 have shareholders, that provides guidance to
3 our outside money managers about how they might
4 vote on various shareholder matters that come
5 up. And they've been very successful.
6 It's a practice that's commonplace
7 throughout the pension fund community.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
9 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I'll move Item 10.
10 TREASURER NELSON: And I second.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. HERNDON: Item Number 11 is the
14 information -- is for information and review.
15 It's the Fund Activity Analysis Report for the
16 month of May.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: That's for
18 information, I think, Tom?
19 MR. HERNDON: Yes, it is.
20 Item Number 12 is requesting approval for
21 the Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund for
22 Rule 19-8.013 to implement statutory changes as
23 a result of the 1999 and 2000 legislative
24 session.
25 This proposed rule clarifies the question
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 12
July 25, 2000
1 of when bonds can be issued, and how you
2 calculate the amount that is available in the
3 trust fund balance as of December 31st.
4 We've had Advisory Council hearings on
5 this, and a rule hearing on July 18th.
6 And recommended for your approval.
7 TREASURER NELSON: I move it.
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
10 Without objection, it's approved.
11 MR. HERNDON: Item 13 is the first formal
12 status report that we're providing as it
13 relates to the implementation of the
14 defined contribution plan.
15 As you'll recall, Governor, you
16 specifically asked about this as well. And it
17 will be our practice to at least once a month
18 put on the agenda a formal report that
19 basically just transmits a lot of the formal
20 activities that the Board has gone through.
21 And I'm not going to belabor it this
22 morning by going through each and every one of
23 the items. I'm very pleased with our progress
24 to date.
25 And unfortunately, as I note, even though
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 13
July 25, 2000
1 there's quite a bit accomplished, the -- the
2 dryness of the paper report doesn't really
3 convey all the homework and everything else
4 that's been accomplished by the Board staff.
5 So we're very pleased with our progress,
6 and our first major milestone, if you will,
7 occurs this Friday when we present the draft
8 staff report on the investment policy statement
9 to our Advisory Council.
10 And we're looking forward to that
11 discussion. And we'll be briefing the various
12 Cabinet offices, Trustee offices, during the
13 course of this week.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any discussion?
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: No. I think they've
16 been moving forward quite aggressively, and --
17 and I think you're on the right track.
18 Not an easy task.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, it isn't.
20 MR. HERNDON: Do you want to adopt that
21 report, Governor; or we can just leave it for
22 information, if that's your pleasure.
23 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I would prefer to
24 leave it for information. I think --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 14
July 25, 2000
1 MR. HERNDON: That's fine.
2 All right. Item 14 is a review of the SBA
3 performance for fiscal year 1999-2000. We're
4 very pleased with our year just completed.
5 We had very good performance
6 across-the-board. The Board staff added about
7 1.6 billion dollars in value as a result of
8 outperforming our benchmark. We were able to
9 lower our costs for outside managers, as well
10 as an additional rebate to our clients of about
11 4 million dollars. So we're very pleased, all
12 things considered.
13 We could have had other items in here. We
14 transitioned through the Y2K scare quite
15 smoothly, and we were also successful in
16 concluding our soft dollar transition to
17 Commission Recapture Program.
18 But on balance, we tried to provide you
19 with what we thought was the -- the real
20 highlights of the year. And I think we would
21 certainly commend the staff and the folks that
22 participate with the SBA in this regard.
23 TREASURER NELSON: Governor, I'd like to
24 just say that the staff and the
25 Executive Director have done a -- another
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 15
July 25, 2000
1 outstanding job in this past year.
2 They have implemented the two stage,
3 one billion plus Chiles Endowment Fund, they
4 implemented an alternative investments assets
5 class with no new resources, they reduced the
6 fees charged by outside managers by 15 million
7 dollars, and they won an exemplary State agency
8 award from the Davis Productivity Awards.
9 So congratulations, Tom, to you --
10 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
11 TREASURER NELSON: -- and the staff.
12 MR. HERNDON: Thank you.
13 It's a team effort, as has been pointed out
14 earlier today.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Tom, the -- can you refresh
16 my memory what your benchmark is? Is it a
17 series of benchmarks that -- that --
18 MR. HERNDON: Yes.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- run together?
20 MR. HERNDON: It's a composite that is
21 constructed of benchmarks for each of our
22 individual asset classes. So domestic equities
23 has a benchmark, in this case, it's the
24 Wilshire 2500, and then we weight each asset
25 class's benchmark to produce a composite.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 16
July 25, 2000
1 This year, it was -- it called for about a
2 15.4 percent return on average. And we
3 outperformed that benchmark by about a
4 percent-and-a-half. And that is what produced
5 that one-and-a-half billion dollar alpha to
6 the -- to the fund.
7 So --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
9 Is that -- do we need approval of that, or
10 is that another information --
11 MR. HERNDON: It's -- it's up to you,
12 Governor. It's on for your information.
13 Certainly if you'd like to approve it, that's
14 fine. But --
15 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Part of the process
16 includes a merit pay increase for Tom. And --
17 MR. HERNDON: Yes, sir.
18 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- and I think it's
19 appropriate to move this for approval.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
21 TREASURER NELSON: I second it.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. HERNDON: With your permission,
25 Governor, and members, we'd like to defer
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 17
July 25, 2000
1 Item 15, which is the performance contract for
2 2000-2001.
3 I'd like to try a little bit different
4 direction with this, and go back to some
5 earlier discussions that we've had with the
6 Trustees about compensation based on
7 performance objectives and so forth. And I'd
8 like to bring back in September a little bit
9 different approach to this that I think you'll
10 find interesting.
11 So --
12 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: I move deferral.
13 TREASURER NELSON: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and -- to
15 defer and second.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. HERNDON: The last item on the agenda
18 is a little bit unusual in the sense that we
19 are providing information for the Florida Water
20 Pollution Control Financing Corporation.
21 In this particular instance, Governor,
22 we're going to ask at the next meeting of
23 the Board for you to convene yourselves as the
24 Corporation.
25 But the Corporation is not formed yet. But
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 18
July 25, 2000
1 we are, nevertheless, essentially providing you
2 with the information and notice to all parties
3 that it is our intention to file the corporate
4 paperwork, and to release the RFPs and so forth
5 so we don't lose that -- that month-and-a-half
6 of time during which we can go ahead and get
7 that worked up.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
9 MR. HERNDON: Governor, if I might take one
10 additional second to make a small presentation.
11 And I won't trouble you to -- to bring it up
12 there.
13 But I know that all of you have had at
14 times past some difficulty trying to figure out
15 your role as a DB Trustee, and as a DC Trustee.
16 So they make these, and they're commonly
17 available at all convenience stores around, and
18 you can see that this is a DB and a DC Trustee
19 in the Florida Retirement System.
20 We thought we'd give each one of you a
21 Trustee hat so that you'll know which -- which
22 one you're wearing when the -- when the dilemma
23 approaches.
24 And I'll leave this with your Aides so that
25 you can wear them later.
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STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION 19
July 25, 2000
1 Thank you very much.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thanks for thinking of us.
3 Thank you, Tom.
4 (The State Board of Administration Agenda
5 was concluded.)
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 20
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Division of Bond Finance.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
5 Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 2 is a resolution
8 authorizing the issuance of up to 428.3 million
9 dollars in PECO bonds. That's a 2000-2001
10 appropriation, and additionally authorizes the
11 competitive sale of up to 220 million dollars
12 of that appropriation.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: You just asked for a
14 resolution for approval of six hundred and
15 forty-eight million dollars, I think, didn't
16 you?
17 MR. WATKINS: Issuance of four hundred and
18 twenty -- or issuance of four hundred and
19 twenty-eight, and we're going to sell
20 two hundred and twenty-eight of that
21 appropriation --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Ho-hum.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 21
July 25, 2000
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's only money,
3 Governor.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I know. It just --
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, it does
6 raise --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: It just --
8 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- the issue of the
9 bond status of the State. And I think Ben is
10 going to provide us with an updated assessment
11 here shortly, is that right, Ben?
12 MR. WATKINS: Yes, sir. Coming up this
13 fall.
14 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This -- this is
16 just a little bit of money that builds schools,
17 guys. Smaller classes, all that kind of stuff.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: I guess I'm still new
19 enough to the job to think that six hundred
20 plus million dollars is a lot of money still.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'll get over it.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But when you get
24 to it --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead.
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 22
July 25, 2000
1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- it's not a lot
2 of schools.
3 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 3 is a resolution
4 authorizing the issuance of seven million
5 seven hundred seventy thousand dollars in
6 hous-- in parking revenue bonds for
7 University of Central Florida.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 4 is a resolution
13 authorizing the issuance of up to 9 million
14 dollars for housing revenue bonds for
15 Florida State University.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 4.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 5 is a resolution
21 authorizing the competitive sale of up to
22 24.4 million in housing revenue bonds for
23 construction of a dormitory at Florida Atlantic
24 University.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 5.
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DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE 23
July 25, 2000
1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
3 Without objection, it's approved.
4 MR. WATKINS: Item Number 6 is a report of
5 award on the competitive sale of thirty million
6 six hundred ninety-five thousand in housing
7 revenue bonds for the University of Florida.
8 The bonds were sold at competitive sale and
9 awarded to the low bidder at a true interest
10 cost of 5.76 percent.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
14 Without objection, it's approved.
15 Thank you.
16 MR. WATKINS: Thank you.
17 (The Division of Bond Finance Agenda was
18 concluded.)
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 24
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of
2 Veterans' Affairs.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item 2.
9 Robin, how you doing?
10 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you. I'm doing well,
11 Governor.
12 Item Number 2 is approval of our quarterly
13 report for the third quarter of 1999-2000
14 fiscal year.
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 Do you want to highlight anything there, or
20 just move right on?
21 MS. HIGGINS: I think we can move right on,
22 unless --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
24 MS. HIGGINS: -- you have some questions.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: No, that's fine.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 25
July 25, 2000
1 MS. HIGGINS: Great.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Normally you like to brag.
3 I just thought maybe you'd want to do that --
4 MS. HIGGINS: Well, we've been doing good
5 things. But I will be bragging on something as
6 soon as I talk about -- I understand that since
7 I submitted the agenda, General Milligan wanted
8 me to brief -- give a short brief on the
9 Inspector General -- the -- excuse me, the
10 auditor report on the Inspector General's
11 Office?
12 Did I --
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, you don't need
14 to brief it. My only concern is that we have
15 follow-up on this, and that we've got our arms
16 around these Auditor General reports. I know
17 these agencies that we are responsible for.
18 MS. HIGGINS: Uh-hum.
19 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And talking to the
20 Auditor General, apparently historically, there
21 is no real tracking of the recommendations.
22 And I want to try to help him in those areas
23 that we have some cognizance.
24 And so it's --
25 MS. HIGGINS: Yes, sir.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 26
July 25, 2000
1 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- really a question
2 of ensuring that we follow up on these, and
3 some sort of status report --
4 MS. HIGGINS: Uh-hum.
5 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- when these things
6 are completed and when the findings have been
7 taken care of.
8 MS. HIGGINS: Uh-hum.
9 Well, this was for the period of January
10 through December of 1999. Generally the
11 finding was that the -- the Office of the
12 Inspector General is generally adequate to
13 reasonably ensure compliance with professional
14 auditing standards, policies, and procedures.
15 There were two small items -- two items,
16 and -- both of which have been corrected, or in
17 the process of being corrected.
18 The first is that they noted that the
19 office had not implemented a continuing
20 education program to meet the standards. And
21 already this year the Inspector General has --
22 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
23 MS. HIGGINS: -- over 40 hours of
24 continuing education. All the future
25 requirements are going to be closely monitored
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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July 25, 2000
1 and documented by the Inspector General.
2 The other was that follow-up activities to
3 determine the status and implementation of some
4 of his internal audit findings and
5 recommendations had not been adequately
6 performed, and the Inspector General is now
7 instituting a new policy to generate a report
8 called the Recommendations and Action
9 Management System, which will much more
10 carefully require reviews of the applicable --
11 applicable investigations and corrective
12 actions taken.
13 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Is it safe to say
14 then that you have taken the action necessary
15 to satisfy the Auditor General?
16 MS. HIGGINS: Yes, sir.
17 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Okay.
18 MS. HIGGINS: The -- the third and final
19 item I have, and I won't be talk-- I'll try not
20 to talk too long -- is just an informational
21 item, and I'd like to update you all on the
22 status of the Florida World War II Memorial,
23 which is a huge project.
24 As -- as many of you know who have talked
25 to me on this, I've been around the state, and
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 28
July 25, 2000
1 I've talked to veterans as we decided what this
2 was going to -- what form this was going to
3 take.
4 And part of the reason that World War II
5 veterans don't already have a monument or a
6 memorial is that they never asked for one.
7 They wanted to come home and build their
8 families and their country and their state, and
9 they did that.
10 So what they wanted was a living memorial
11 to -- not a -- not a stone in Tallahassee is
12 what I was told.
13 And so I put together a team -- and,
14 in fact, two of them are -- are here with me
15 today.
16 One is -- and I'd like to thank the
17 Department of State and the Department of
18 Education for being real partners in this -- in
19 this effort to create a living memorial.
20 Dr. Jan Matthews especially is -- is here
21 this morning. And I'd really like to -- to
22 thank her. I know that all of you know her.
23 She's the Director of Division of Historical
24 Resources and the State Historic Preservation
25 Officer.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 29
July 25, 2000
1 Dr. John Wiegman, who's not here today,
2 from the Department of Education, has also been
3 part of our team.
4 I've prepared a -- a one-page fact sheet
5 which you all have, and -- and I've since
6 basically sent this to all the state commanders
7 of the veterans groups in the state, many of
8 whom have written and called me saying that,
9 you know, they will offer their full support.
10 This summer, in fact, at their state
11 conventions, the Disabled American Veterans,
12 the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and the
13 American Legion, passed resolutions in support
14 of the project the way we've envisioned it and
15 laid it out, this -- this true living memorial.
16 The -- there are basically going to be,
17 you know, four components, and it can change,
18 and it's going to change as we come up with new
19 ideas and as we begin to raise a little money,
20 and as we begin to put these things into
21 fruition.
22 But basically it involves a central museum
23 in Tallahassee, and it will be, in fact, in the
24 R.A. Gray Building, which is the Florida Museum
25 of History. So we're pretty excited about --
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 30
July 25, 2000
1 about that.
2 It will also entail a statewide network of
3 World War II resources, both on the Internet,
4 other resources, and one that I'm particularly
5 excited about is that the Department of State
6 is going to prepare for us one of these books
7 in their series of the Florida Heritage Trail.
8 This happens to be the -- the Black
9 Heritage Trail book. And it's a very exciting
10 book. In fact, the Fessenden Elementary School
11 is in this book, because it was -- it was built
12 at a very historic time during the Depression.
13 So, you know, as many of you know, and as
14 the -- the folks, Dr. Matthews, and others from
15 the Department of State, have pointed out to
16 me, Florida is what it is today because of what
17 happened during and quick-- and soon after
18 World War II, the road network, the -- the
19 military installations, many counties and
20 communities already have smaller museums and
21 events and historical buildings.
22 And we're going to try to capture all of
23 those in this statewide network of World War II
24 resources.
25 The third part will be a major traveling
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 31
July 25, 2000
1 exhibit which will travel to major Florida
2 museums around the state for about three or
3 four months at a time to bring this experience
4 out into the state for those people who are not
5 able to travel to Tallahassee, and otherwise
6 don't have any knowledge of -- of the war.
7 And then the fourth part, this is where the
8 Department of Education is helping us, we're
9 going to have a full range of educational
10 materials, including a supplemental curriculum,
11 for K through adult.
12 So we're pretty excited about that.
13 As far as fund raising efforts and
14 activities, everyone asks me that. We
15 anticipate that this project, the way it's
16 currently envisioned, will be about 2 million
17 dollars. We're throwing in about 600,000
18 additional for ongoing costs which, you know,
19 when you build a -- a granite rock or a
20 monument, you don't have those ongoing costs.
21 Certainly this living memorial will require
22 that.
23 So our goal is to try to raise 2.6 million
24 dollars. And we have been helped in this a
25 great deal by Bill Hebrock, who's here as well.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 32
July 25, 2000
1 He's going to coordinate a -- a major
2 corporate and private funding activity for us.
3 That will be led by a gentleman by the name of
4 Mr. Andy Hines, who I think most of you know.
5 He's a very well-known and widely respected
6 Florida businessman, the former CEO of Florida
7 Progress.
8 He lives in St. Petersburg currently; and
9 he, in fact, is a World War II veteran. And
10 one of the things we really just found out,
11 because he never talks about it, is he was also
12 a prisoner of war during that -- during that
13 war, held by the Germans.
14 So we're very excited to have him on board,
15 and -- and he will be leading this for us.
16 We also expect the Commission on
17 Veterans' Affairs will lead their own fund
18 raising activities, and they will try to also
19 coordinate with Bill on this.
20 And their primary -- primary goal, since
21 they are stretched around the state, is to
22 approach the counties, municipalities, and the
23 local governments and communities to see what
24 they might want to do to participate, since
25 this is truly going to be a statewide effort.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 33
July 25, 2000
1 And, of course, the veterans groups,
2 especially now that they've passed these
3 resolutions, are all excited about raising
4 money to help us coordinate this.
5 So I appreciate your support, all along,
6 especially the Secretary of State and the
7 Commissioner of Education. I look forward to
8 working on this exciting event.
9 And I'll try to keep you informed as we --
10 as we progress.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Katherine.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- I just wanted to
14 compliment Colonel Higgins for moving so
15 quickly and so steadfastly. You've been
16 tenacious, and by any standards, it's going
17 great; and particularly by government
18 standards.
19 I want to thank Governor Bush, because he's
20 been such a champion of this vision.
21 And another thing that they've done is --
22 that's so dynamic, rather than building a new
23 facility, one of our passions was to convert
24 the Gray Museum into some-- the Gray Building,
25 the Museum of Florida History, into something
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 34
July 25, 2000
1 vibrant.
2 And so this is going to help fulfill this
3 mission, and carrying it on obviously with
4 education is -- is really, really key.
5 I -- I especially want to thank Dr. --
6 Dr. Matthews for her vision in helping and her
7 enthusiasm; and Governor, and Colonel Higgins
8 also for your looking at the historic
9 preservation aspects of the military sites
10 across the state. It's going to be a very
11 dynamic nexus and the kind of interaction.
12 I -- I'm just extremely grateful, and I
13 think our veterans are going to be immensely
14 grateful for -- for Colonel Higgins, for your
15 and the Governor's vision.
16 Thank you so much.
17 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Katherine.
19 This -- I want to thank Bill Hebrock for
20 signing up to -- on a pro bono basis to help us
21 raise money. We have -- now that we have the
22 vision, and it's more or less priced out, we're
23 going to go out and make it happen.
24 And Bill's about as good as -- as someone
25 can be to help us in that effort. And we're
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 35
July 25, 2000
1 thankful, Bill, for your help.
2 I want to tell you just a quick story.
3 I was -- we were in Brazil,
4 Commissioner Gallagher and -- and
5 Secretary Harris and I were in Brazil this last
6 week. And I was visiting the Embraer factory,
7 where they manufacture planes.
8 And someone came up and said, your father
9 flew out of the hangar that curr-- that we
10 currently occupy in Fort Lauderdale. And the
11 Fort Lauderdale International Airport exists
12 because of the World War II effort.
13 Similarly, if you go to Pensacola, the
14 whole community would not be as vibrant as it
15 is today, were it not for the fact that young
16 pilots, like my dad, flew -- get -- got their
17 wings in Pensacola.
18 And you can go all across this state, and
19 you will have examples of that, how our
20 infrastructure was built and our culture was
21 enhanced because of the incredible dedication
22 of men and women of that generation.
23 So we've kind of come full circle where you
24 have a Brazilian aircraft company that we're
25 trying to get to expand their operations here
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 36
July 25, 2000
1 to create more prosperity for Floridians, being
2 based in a place that -- that exists because of
3 World War II.
4 So it's not just -- it's more than just
5 paying tribute to people who -- who serve their
6 country, it really relates to the essence of
7 Florida, I think.
8 MS. HIGGINS: It does. And, in fact,
9 you know, we -- I wanted to let people know, as
10 I speak with them, that this is not going to be
11 called the World War II Veterans Memorial,
12 although certainly that's really where our
13 focus and our tribute needs to be, on those men
14 and women who fought.
15 But it also needs to be on those people who
16 stayed at home and -- and -- and kept the
17 factories going, and -- and, you know, and --
18 and got orange juice and -- and those kinds of
19 things that developed in the state to support
20 all those men and women around the world who
21 needed our support.
22 And so this is a terrific way -- as far as
23 I know, we're the only state to be doing
24 something like this, and I think it's right
25 that we do.
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DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS 37
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
2 MS. HIGGINS: Thank you for your support.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Robin.
4 (The Department of Veterans' Affairs Agenda
5 was concluded.)
6 * * *
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 38
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Law
2 Enforcement.
3 No Power Point presentations, Commish?
4 MR. MOORE: No, sir. We're going to do it
5 fast today --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
7 MR. MOORE: -- I hope.
8 Item 1's the minutes from the May 23rd --
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion --
10 MR. MOORE: -- meeting, Governor.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- minutes.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a --
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- second?
15 Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. MOORE: Item 2 is the review of the
18 Department's performance, our annual
19 performance report for last fiscal year,
20 1999 through 2000.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 2.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, it's approved.
25 By the way, I --
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 39
July 25, 2000
1 MR. MOORE: Governor --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- commend you for your
3 efforts as it relates to contracting with
4 certified minority businesses.
5 MR. MOORE: Well, I was real pleased to see
6 that progress reported in today's paper. And
7 ours pales by significance to a lot of the
8 others.
9 But we're 31 percent above our goal, and
10 that's -- for our little --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Nothing wrong with --
12 MR. MOORE: -- part of the --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- that.
14 MR. MOORE: -- that's significant. And
15 I'm --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Just have to --
17 MR. MOORE: -- proud --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- raise the goal.
19 MR. MOORE: I'm very proud of that.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: There you go.
21 MR. MOORE: Also, if I could, by way of
22 just a -- a commentary, Governor, on that
23 annual report, I'm very proud of the men and
24 women in the agency. They've done a -- another
25 good job this year.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 40
July 25, 2000
1 We've met and exceeded 100 percent of our
2 performance outcomes in investigation, well
3 over 75 percent of all the measures in the
4 agency were completed at least at the
5 90 percentile level. And I think that speaks
6 volumes about the men and women there.
7 And it also speaks volumes about, Governor,
8 your leadership and support, along with the
9 Cabinet, of the Department of Law Enforcement.
10 And I'm proud of that.
11 Our performance based comp plan that we've
12 had in place now for the second year is making
13 a difference. We're doing a better job of what
14 we have.
15 And we've been able to reprogram a lot of
16 technology offsets into other parts of the
17 organization without having to come ask for
18 additional resources.
19 And that'll only be enhanced by the efforts
20 you unveiled yesterday on MyFlorida.com, as we
21 continue to do better with getting our services
22 out to the people.
23 Finally, I'm real proud of the fact that --
24 that our client base, citizens, and other
25 members of the criminal justice community,
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 41
July 25, 2000
1 consistently rated our services in excess of
2 95 percent State -- Department-wide.
3 And that's a pretty critical survey, and
4 face-to-face review mechanism as well. And I'm
5 real proud of that.
6 And thank you for indulging me to -- to
7 brag on the men and women just a bit.
8 Item 3 is -- is the performance contract
9 between myself and you as the governing body
10 for the Department of Law Enforcement for the
11 coming fiscal year.
12 You'll notice there, there are 60 -- round
13 number, 60 specific outcomes that are in the
14 law that we're now responsible for delivering
15 on your behalf to the citizens.
16 You'll notice also that -- that those
17 outcomes and those measures were increased this
18 year over last. Because in those areas where
19 we met them and -- where we met the -- the
20 objectives and exceeded them considerably, we
21 raised the outcomes there. Again, that's
22 because of technology and other added benefit
23 that we can put to play on what we're doing
24 now.
25 I'd recommend approval of that contract for
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 42
July 25, 2000
1 2001-2002.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 3.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. MOORE: Item 3 is a series of -- of
7 rules that are partic-- that are principally
8 housekeeping in nature.
9 You'll recall that these rules were
10 presented in their entirety to your Aides back
11 in May of this year, consistent with the
12 rulemaking process.
13 They've also been subject to public hearing
14 and request for written comment, and we
15 received none on either.
16 They're the product of a lot of the
17 Commission and Council's exercise in public
18 meetings that we have had. There's essentially
19 no substantive changes here.
20 They're housekeeping, as I said, in nature,
21 and I'd recommend their approval to you.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT 43
July 25, 2000
1 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Governor, Cabinet.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Tim.
3 (The Florida Department of Law Enforcement
4 Agenda was concluded.)
5 * * *
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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 44
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Department of Revenue.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
3 minutes.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 Without objection, it's approved.
7 Item 2.
8 DR. ZINGALE: This is a correction,
9 Governor. This is an information item. We
10 have no agenda today.
11 The item is basically to give a status
12 report on the Department's oversight of the
13 property tax administration process.
14 You can remember back in I think it was
15 December when we met in Coral Springs, we had
16 public testimony that raised issues and
17 concerns about that oversight process.
18 I'm going to try to give you progress over
19 the last six months, and an action plan for the
20 remainder portion of this year.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: You're going to have to go
22 real slow. This is the most complicated thing
23 I've -- I'm sure General Milligan understands
24 this, but I'm just -- I got about halfway in
25 it, and I got lost.
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 45
July 25, 2000
1 So --
2 DR. ZINGALE: This is --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- don't assume that we all
4 just understand everything about required local
5 effort formulas, and how it's implemented.
6 DR. ZINGALE: When we came back from
7 Coral Springs, I spent the majority of January
8 and February sitting down with staff doing a
9 detailed examination on this oversight process.
10 We reviewed the 1997 Auditor General's
11 recommendations, and I'll go over these in more
12 detail. But we accelerated the things that
13 were in progress.
14 We developed the first comprehensive
15 documentation. And if you really want to go to
16 sleep, it's about a 35-page document that lays
17 out what that in-depth review process is.
18 We went -- in working with the
19 Attorney General's staff, we did a
20 comprehensive review of the legal framework,
21 the Constitution, the statutes, the rules; more
22 importantly, how the courts interpreted our
23 duties and responsibilities.
24 About three months ago, two months ago, we
25 created a fairly comprehensive Property Tax
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 46
July 25, 2000
1 Advisory Council, full representation of all
2 the constitutional authorities, private sector
3 representation in both the commercial and
4 housing industry.
5 Upon creation of that, we had one meeting.
6 They've identified six areas of interest, and
7 we are about ready to break into -- into action
8 teams with that membership.
9 We're going to be meeting next month, our
10 second meeting, and likely going to expand that
11 membership. There was some concern that we had
12 left out some sectors, and it's going to be
13 expanded.
14 We have identified and accelerated a number
15 of improvement issues that will be in our
16 workplan. And I think as importantly, we
17 rolled up our sleeves, because we were in the
18 middle of a 1999 audit from the
19 Auditor General. We told the staff and
20 instructed the staff to aggressively and
21 actively support that Auditor General's
22 recommendation.
23 About midway through that, I got personally
24 involved. I've had numerous meetings over the
25 last six months with the Auditor General's
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 47
July 25, 2000
1 staff, sharing both this documentation.
2 I want to say today that last week, we
3 received the Auditor General's 1999 tentative
4 findings and recommendations.
5 Normally an agency would have about 30 days
6 to respond. It would typically be a
7 tit for tat examination of each of the
8 13 recommendations and a counterpoint
9 situation.
10 Instead, we have been so actively involved
11 with the Auditor General, that I'd like to
12 announce today that we fully concur with all of
13 the Auditor General's recommendations, and have
14 developed an aggressive action plan to
15 implement all of those recommendations as soon
16 as possible.
17 A plan is a plan. We all know plans, if
18 not implemented and executed, or if not
19 responsive to the recommendations, are
20 worthless.
21 So last week, I engaged a conversation with
22 our Auditor General, and I asked for help.
23 Instead of taking our 30-day review period and
24 examining the recommendations, I offered to
25 work with the Auditor General staff concerning
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 48
July 25, 2000
1 our plan, get feedback from the staff
2 concerning the plan so we could provide some
3 public assurances that the plan is responsible
4 to the Auditor General's recommendations.
5 Got to read these words, because the
6 Auditor General and I kind of worked on them
7 last night to make sure I don't misquote the
8 situation.
9 The Auditor General has agreed to allow his
10 staff to review this plan, and provide feedback
11 to the plan's responsiveness to the
12 Auditor General's recommendation.
13 As far as I know, this is the first time
14 any Auditor General has ever made that kind of
15 commitment, and I really want to thank
16 Bill Monroe for doing that. This is the kind
17 of program -- as you said, it's complicated,
18 it's difficult for people to understand.
19 Our staff and their staffs are the experts
20 right now. I feel when this -- this remaining
21 30 days is up, and we get the feedback from the
22 Auditor General's staff, you can have some
23 assurances that the plan will be responsive,
24 and I believe will collectively be in the mode
25 of being able to monitor the progress and
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 49
July 25, 2000
1 execution of the plan.
2 With that general background, I'd like to
3 give you a highlight -- and this is where it
4 may get a little slow, and we're dealing in
5 statistics and econometrics, not property
6 appraising.
7 The 13 recommendations that I'm going to
8 highlight, and I'm going to try to give you
9 some indication of the things that have already
10 been done, since we've been working on this
11 intensively over the last six months.
12 But the 12 findings are kind of categorized
13 into the first two. And this is -- I'm going
14 to go even slower.
15 A -- a responsibility on the
16 Department of Revenue is to ensure that the
17 work product of 67 property appraisers is in
18 substantial compliance to the law. Okay? It
19 is a general term. Substantial compliance to
20 the law.
21 We go through a roll approval process that
22 we're going through right now where the
23 Department has one of a few choices: It can
24 either approve a roll; it can disapprove a
25 roll; or it can approve a roll with defects in
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 50
July 25, 2000
1 it, which is a notice and intent that the
2 Department will possibly turn down a roll if
3 the defects aren't fixed between now and the
4 next review period.
5 It is a once a year event. The staff and
6 the property appraisers work all year long
7 assessing property as of January 1st, at the
8 beginning of a year, as to what the value of
9 8.3 million parcels of property are as of
10 January 1. Our staff works on a schedule to
11 ensure that they are in substantial compliance
12 with the law.
13 The first two findings deal with the
14 statistical approach that an agency can use in
15 terms of ensuring that substantial compliance.
16 Here we're entering the world of
17 statistics. IAAO provides two general tests.
18 One is a very narrow based one. But those that
19 have been in the campaigning business have
20 learned what a statistically valid random
21 sample is. Statisticians sit there upon
22 polling evidence and be able to forecast the
23 outcome of an election on very small samples.
24 The Department for a lot of years used
25 statistically valid random sample techniques to
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 51
July 25, 2000
1 go in; do individual fee appraisals of county
2 property; and based on a very small sample,
3 forecast what the sales ratio was for that
4 county, and, therefore, whether they should
5 approve or disapprove the roll.
6 Another accepted practice, but it's a
7 little vague, it has some assurances of -- of
8 size, but it has some problems with respect to
9 representativeness, is actually using the sale
10 price that occurs on a parcel of property.
11 Just to give you an example, using all
12 sales data in the current year's review,
13 Orange County in the single family residential
14 strata had 21,231 sales; Leon County, a much
15 smaller county, 3,815 sales; Charlotte,
16 4,785 sales.
17 Pretty decent sized population to be able
18 to forecast. However, we would typically, if
19 we were doing a statistically valid random
20 sample, may be only looking at 40, 50, or
21 60 parcels within single family residential in
22 those counties.
23 That is the statistical test, and one that
24 the Auditor General would say is a valid one.
25 The Department a few years ago started
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 52
July 25, 2000
1 shifting away from that statistically valid
2 random sample, and into using the all sales
3 approach.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Jim, I'm sorry. But --
5 DR. ZINGALE: Yes, sir.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- how could -- how could
7 40 -- a 40-parcel sample be statistically
8 valid? You brought up the campaigning analogy.
9 No -- no -- no politician in this table would
10 accept a poll of 40 people.
11 The margin of error would be so high that
12 it would be --
13 DR. ZINGALE: You're not --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- invalid.
15 DR. ZINGALE: -- doing that on the whole
16 8.3 million, you're doing that by county by
17 strata.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: So you're taking the --
19 DR. ZINGALE: Yeah.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- it -- the 40 --
21 DR. ZINGALE: You go into a county, you
22 subdivide the county into value groups; you
23 subdivide the county into -- into single family
24 residential, commercial, multifamily, vacant
25 land, lot, you break those down, and within
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 53
July 25, 2000
1 that grouping, you are doing statistically
2 valid random sampling. But that is the case.
3 Okay? The Auditor General comes in, says
4 that we need to improve our methods in terms of
5 sample size.
6 The second recommendation deals with sample
7 size. It asks us to document that methodology
8 to be able to justify using statistics that
9 that sample size is adequate to forecast the
10 population.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
12 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
13 room.)
14 DR. ZINGALE: Flip over to the other side,
15 because it sounds a lot better; 21,000
16 observations in Orlando sounds a heck of a lot
17 better than 40 to 50 to 60 testing that
18 population.
19 Using that technique though, which we have
20 now used substantially, that is the substantial
21 method we are using, the Auditor General noted
22 that, well, sales is not necessarily a total
23 representation of what is happening in that
24 county.
25 And they have raised some issues that you
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 54
July 25, 2000
1 need a different set of tests to make sure all
2 sales are representative.
3 With respect to our plan on those two
4 findings --
5 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
6 room.)
7 DR. ZINGALE: -- which is representation
8 and sample size, is by far the most complex and
9 the most important of the Auditor General's
10 recommendations.
11 We've laid out a plan to address both of
12 those. That plan, we will sit down very
13 intensively over the next three weeks because
14 we have to set that workplan for the coming
15 year by September.
16 And we will give you some assurances and
17 safeguards that will be responsive to both the
18 sample size and the use of sales in terms of
19 generating a statistical valid inference to the
20 population.
21 Again, I'm stuck with -- statistics isn't
22 something that everybody is comfortable with.
23 We've got a consultant; they've got a
24 consultant; we've gotten the two together, and
25 they have argued at length over what is the
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 55
July 25, 2000
1 valid approach.
2 I'm at the point right now of sitting down
3 there and saying, we're going to go implement
4 the right approach.
5 Not that it isn't that way today. A lot of
6 the issues do deal with statistics and
7 inferences.
8 But those two are very important. They're
9 very important to me personally. My background
10 is in statistics and econometrics, and did that
11 for a lot of years. I get a little more
12 comfortable with those kind of inferences than
13 I think a property appraiser or a citizen
14 would.
15 But I can assure you that we've got both
16 professionals looking at it, Auditor General's
17 got professionals looking at it, and we're
18 going to give you an implementation plan
19 that'll be responsive to those two
20 recommendations.
21 The other three -- the next three deals
22 with the quality of the field appraisal work.
23 Here the Auditor General says, you do have
24 a documented procedure --
25 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 56
July 25, 2000
1 DR. ZINGALE: -- but it is fragmented, is
2 not updated. We have been working on this one
3 for awhile. About 50 percent of our staff
4 guidelines are on the Intranet, in a computer.
5 Between now and September, we expect all those
6 guidelines to be in one place, and subject to
7 an independent review.
8 We are going to have our
9 Inspector General's Office review those
10 guidelines.
11 The fourth finding has to do with how well
12 our field appraisals -- when you do do the
13 statistically valid random sample, you do have
14 field appraisers that go in and physically
15 inspect those properties.
16 The Auditor General had some concern about
17 the validating techniques. Sometimes samples
18 are voided, that we document the reasons for
19 voided -- when you're dealing in very, very
20 small samples, you want all of those
21 observations to be perfect.
22 The Auditor General had concerns about our
23 validation, our documentation of the
24 validation. We have put in our plan,
25 procedures to go through a massive retraining
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 57
July 25, 2000
1 of the staff between now and October when
2 they're going to be doing the field work along
3 these instructional guidelines. We're bringing
4 them up for a two-day seminar.
5 We're going to have our Inspector General's
6 Office in mid-year go in and do a random sample
7 of the quality of their work to ensure that
8 this year we're getting the best observations
9 we can.
10 After the fact, there's the
11 post-documentation. The Auditor General wanted
12 to see a lot more documentation in terms of
13 what actually was done in the field.
14 I believe all three of those will be in
15 place between now and December, and will be
16 responsive to the Auditor General's
17 recommendations.
18 With respect to roll approval. This will
19 happen again next year, and is happening right
20 now. We are using a substantially wide array
21 of tighter statistics this year to kind of look
22 at the overall roll.
23 The Auditor General recommended increasing
24 tightness on factors such as the coefficient of
25 dispersion, the price related differential,
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 58
July 25, 2000
1 price squared tests.
2 We have adopted those in this year's
3 review, and are giving notice to the property
4 appraisers that they are going to be the
5 standards that we're going to be held to in the
6 future.
7 Tests such as alternative ratios are being
8 performed on this year's study, tests that are
9 designed to look at sample chasing. They are
10 being done for the first time in response to
11 the Auditor General's recommendations.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's sample chasing?
13 DR. ZINGALE: Sample chasing: Take all
14 sales. You're over here in Panama City --
15 that's not an example. This is a hypothetical.
16 We don't want to take real data right now.
17 And 90 percent of the sale is out on the
18 beach, and only 10 percent of the sale is
19 across the beach inland.
20 If a property appraiser goes in and simply
21 increases assessments on all the parcels that
22 sold, and nothing else, then he's understating
23 the roll in terms of the quality of what is in.
24 We had a number of tests in place, the
25 Auditor General proposed a better one. We're
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 59
July 25, 2000
1 applying it for the first time this year in the
2 roll approval process.
3 I've looked at 39 roles so far, and only
4 approved six.
5 The other ones are being held until we can
6 do some more so we can look at how these tests
7 apply all across the roles.
8 There'll be a substantial increase in
9 notices to the property appraisers at the end
10 of this cycle in terms of the tighter use of
11 that data.
12 Those things go into place now, they're
13 used much more intensively a year from now.
14 Two other ones -- well, let me skip around
15 here.
16 The Auditor General looked at one of our
17 other primary roles, which is certifying these
18 assessment levels to the Department of
19 Education for adjustment to the required local
20 effort.
21 Again, a -- a fairly -- not fairly
22 well-known process that takes place, but
23 required local effort that is charged or levied
24 to support the public school system is a
25 collaboration between the Florida Legislature,
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 60
July 25, 2000
1 the Department of Education, and the Department
2 of Revenue.
3 The Legislature sets the amount of money
4 that goes in the public school system. There
5 is, based on the final roll, a required local
6 effort.
7 The Department of Revenue's ratio study is
8 used to kind of raise those that have low
9 ratios, to a slightly higher required local
10 effort; and those that have high ratios, a
11 slightly lower effort.
12 The Auditor General in '97, and again in
13 '99, identified a practice of capping every
14 appraisal over 100 as having no legal
15 authority.
16 I personally have met with the House, the
17 Senate staff, the Governor's staff, the
18 Department of Education staff. I can't find
19 legal authority to do that capping.
20 So a couple of weeks ago, I certified the
21 Department of Education those assessment levels
22 uncapped.
23 And I think that fixes --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: How's -- how's everybody's
25 pulse on that?
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 61
July 25, 2000
1 DR. ZINGALE: Well, so far -- I mean, it's
2 fairly routine. The Department of Education
3 cranks those through, and has I think probably
4 last Friday sent those millages out to cities
5 and count-- to school districts.
6 I think the overall level was under 6 mills
7 for the first time, which is a test of both the
8 growth and the efficiency and the process,
9 which I think everybody liked.
10 The deviation plus or minus amounts to, in
11 most counties, maybe $30 a year, plus or minus.
12 I mean, it's not a huge difference.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: What's the -- what's the
14 gross amount though?
15 DR. ZINGALE: Gross amount I think is
16 approximately 26 million dollars out of
17 4 billion.
18 A relatively small amount. But there is a
19 differential shift. There is no change in the
20 amount of money that goes to the public
21 schools. Public schools get exactly the amount
22 of money they did before.
23 It is a shift in whether general revenue is
24 supporting that school system, or whether
25 property tax is supporting --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Some counties --
2 DR. ZINGALE: -- that school.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- will lose, some counties
4 will win.
5 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
6 DR. ZINGALE: Some counties will -- put it
7 this way: Had we -- had we not -- had we
8 capped, there were some counties that would
9 have had a property tax increase for no legal
10 reason. And that's what caused me to clearly
11 look at that decision and feel like it wasn't,
12 so --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, that's -- that's one
14 way of looking at it. But the flipside is that
15 there will be counties that will have to -- to
16 put --
17 DR. ZINGALE: Yes.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- more in required local
19 effort --
20 DR. ZINGALE: Yes.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- because --
22 DR. ZINGALE: Using --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- there's no --
24 DR. ZINGALE: -- using the same
25 methodology, that's treating them all equally.
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July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
2 DR. ZINGALE: That's the FEFP.
3 There was another piece in that particular
4 recommendation that dealt with another whole
5 set of statistical approaches that are used to
6 approve roles.
7 Half of the roles are approved every year
8 based on those two methodologies I described,
9 and the other half of the roles are approved on
10 what the statute's called best available
11 information.
12 So we really only do an in-depth every
13 other year. There we are using econometrics.
14 I think if you will ask the Auditor General,
15 I think that both their staff and their help
16 didn't have an econometrician, but they raised
17 some concerns about the econometric approach.
18 In this year's roll approval, I've been
19 very fortunate. I kind of lucked out. I went
20 out to FSU, and they just have hired one of
21 their eminent scholar chairs in the Devoe Moore
22 Council out there. The gentleman is named
23 Keith Ihlanfeldt.
24 And he is a Ph.D. in economics, has an
25 urban and regional background, and especially
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 64
July 25, 2000
1 in econometrics.
2 And he has agreed during this roll -- this
3 roll review process, to sit down with the staff
4 and give an independent evaluation of our
5 econometric approach.
6 I'm quite pleased to announce that.
7 I think as soon as this cycle is over, we may
8 engage him, or somebody like him, to do a very
9 in-depth review of that econometric approach.
10 There are two -- there are four
11 recommendations that primarily deal with
12 guidelines and systems control. Two of them
13 have to do with computer guidelines and
14 controls. And I can assure you that today all
15 of those are in place.
16 Those two recommendations primarily dealt
17 with verifying the tape you got from the
18 property appraiser was the correct one. And --
19 and ensuring that you had enough controls and
20 separations on the computer system that
21 somebody couldn't get in, break in, override
22 the system, and play games with the numbers.
23 They're in place. And totally recommended.
24 The other two deal with an issue that was
25 raised at Coral Springs that deal with
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 65
July 25, 2000
1 guidelines.
2 There -- the process for developing
3 guidelines that had taken place prior to me
4 becoming the Executive Director had way too
5 narrow a group of people working on it. We had
6 property appraisers and department staff
7 developing those guidelines.
8 We've stopped that process and have
9 initiated a new one. The new process is going
10 to aggressively engage our advisory council to
11 do the -- to do fairly quickly over the next
12 three months that plan.
13 And then we have to go through and emulate
14 a -- a rule -- a public hearing rulemaking
15 process. While guidelines don't carry the
16 force of law, I have no authority as the
17 Executive Director to enforce guidelines. They
18 are guidelines.
19 But there is a substantial interest in
20 updating these. They haven't been updated in a
21 long time. I think there's been some concern,
22 because my forecast is going to be -- at least
23 it was said, going to take 18 months to do
24 that.
25 Well, I hope it doesn't take nearly that
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 66
July 25, 2000
1 long. But the problem is, if they're not in
2 place by January 1 of this next year, which is
3 only five months from now, then they can't be
4 fully in effect for another 12 months, because
5 they are only effective January 1 of each year.
6 Along that line, as we get them due, we'll
7 release them. But they're really not going to
8 be applicable until the 2002 roll, even though
9 they will probably be promulgated substantially
10 sooner than that.
11 Those are kind of the highlights -- those
12 are the recommendations. What I hope to
13 accomplish today was to give you some
14 assurances that this is important to the
15 Department, that we do have a very aggressive
16 plan, at least by my calculations, three --
17 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
18 DR. ZINGALE: -- of the recommendations,
19 three of the twelve are already in place. I
20 expect seven of them to be completed in this
21 review cycle. And the remaining two only deal
22 with guidelines.
23 And because of the public hearing and
24 testimony process, I'm afraid they're not going
25 to be effective until the -- the following
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 67
July 25, 2000
1 year.
2 But with that overview, are there any
3 questions?
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Governor, if I
5 could.
6 First of all, I -- I think we should
7 acknowledge the effort that Jim and his people
8 have been putting into this Property Tax
9 Administrator Program -- Administration
10 Program.
11 This has needed some focus, and some
12 illumination, and -- and certainly he has taken
13 the bull by the horn to try to get after it.
14 And, of course, the Auditor General added a
15 little impetus to that.
16 And I appreciate the plan that Jim has just
17 highlighted for us. While it's still, I guess,
18 being worked, I think it would be important,
19 Governor, and members of the Cabinet, that we
20 get over the next year, a quarterly report from
21 Jim.
22 Most of the things that he is trying to put
23 in place occur really over the next six months
24 to nine months. And if we could get a
25 quarterly report as to the progress he's making
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 68
July 25, 2000
1 in response to the Auditor General's findings
2 and the implementation of his plan, would go a
3 long way to help us stay on top of what's going
4 on.
5 So I -- I would recommend that we have a
6 quarterly report from Jim over the next fiscal
7 year, and then probably semiannual for the --
8 for the next year.
9 DR. ZINGALE: General, we've got --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
11 DR. ZINGALE: -- 21 days to get the input
12 from the Auditor General. At that point in
13 time, we'll finalize the plan.
14 Every three months thereafter, we'll come
15 back in front of the -- in front of y'all and
16 give you a -- a complete status report. You
17 can always call the Auditor General in to -- to
18 check if you choose.
19 I do want to say, this has been a -- truly
20 a -- a fun experience for me. It's late
21 nights, it's weekends, it's the kind of stuff
22 I -- I was doing in a prior career. I don't --
23 I don't exaggerate this. This has -- this has
24 honestly been fun.
25 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Well, it -- to Jim's
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1 credit, he was supposed to be in Alaska
2 I believe today.
3 DR. ZINGALE: Yeah, that's true.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: And he's here.
5 So --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Appreciate you --
7 DR. ZINGALE: Thank you.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- being here.
9 You leaving now?
10 DR. ZINGALE: That's all I had, unless you
11 have more questions.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: No. I just -- I'm not -- I
13 want to know if you're leaving for Alaska.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Alaska.
15 DR. ZINGALE: No, sir. I think I'll try
16 that next summer.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, really? Oh, that's too
18 bad.
19 After he's implemented all the
20 recommendations of the Auditor General --
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Then he --
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- then he might go to
23 Alaska.
24 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: -- Alaska.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That may not even
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DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE 70
July 25, 2000
1 be done by next year.
2 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
3 room.)
4 (The Department of Revenue Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 * * *
7
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9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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25
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 71
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: State Board of Education.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 1, minutes of June 13th,
3 2000, meeting.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 MR. PIERSON: Item 2 is withdrawn.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to
10 withdraw.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Withdrawn or deferred?
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Does it matter?
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- Governor, we're
16 not sure when this is going to come back. And
17 we've sent a memo out to your Aides basically
18 saying that we will bring this charter
19 application back to the State Board after the
20 School Board has approved it.
21 And it came to our attention last week that
22 the school district had not had an opportunity
23 to look at it.
24 There are numerous requests for waivers
25 that we found that -- that would be
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 72
July 25, 2000
1 unacceptable to the Board. And we're working
2 on those.
3 I mean, it's things like expecting students
4 to pay for books, expecting students to pay for
5 certain courses, and things, which just aren't
6 going to fly with us. And so --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a home school issue
8 as well, isn't there?
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: There's a
10 home school issue that's there that -- that --
11 that shouldn't be waived, in my opinion. I
12 don't think the rest of us would agree with
13 that.
14 So we've given the list of things that
15 they've asked to be waived, and told them that
16 they weren't going to fly.
17 And so this -- the Board in Sarasota needs
18 to look over this plan that the
19 superintendent's been working with us on.
20 Hopefully they'll do it --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
22 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- for the
23 September meeting. And if not, we'll bring it
24 to the Board as soon as they do give us
25 something we can work with.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 73
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Very good.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 3 is the 2000-2001
3 College Reach-Out Program Funding.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
9 room.)
10 MR. PIERSON: Item 4 is a resolution
11 authorizing the sale of 220 million dollars in
12 PECO bonds.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 MR. PIERSON: Items 5 through 14 are ESE
18 rules that are being withdrawn.
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to withdraw, and a
22 second.
23 Without objection, it's approved.
24 MR. PIERSON: Item 15 is a Board of Regents
25 rule, Revised Rule 6C-7.001, Tuition,
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 74
July 25, 2000
1 Fee Schedule, and Percentage of Costs.
2 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. PIERSON: Item 16 is a Board of Regents
7 Revised Rule 6C-7.003, Special Fees, Fines, and
8 Penalties.
9 And we have a speaker on that rule.
10 David Foy requests to speak to the rule.
11 MR. FOY: Good morning.
12 My name is David Foy, and I'm the
13 Executive Director of the Florida Student
14 Association. Thank you for having me here
15 today.
16 I'm here on behalf of the students of the
17 State University System who originally had
18 serious concerns with the Board proposed
19 Rule 6C-7.003.
20 The transportation access fee as originally
21 drafted by the Board stated: Each university
22 is authorized to assess a transportation access
23 fee. We worked very hard with Regent Uhlfelder
24 and President D'Alemberte of Florida State to
25 reach some consensus on the Board's language
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 75
July 25, 2000
1 that they passed last Thursday.
2 And what we originally had done is try to
3 come up with some language similar to 240.235
4 which deals with fees of activity and service,
5 athletic and health fees.
6 We had originally requested language that
7 stated that there would be half representation
8 like it's stated in the statute. We were not
9 able to get there. But we feel the current
10 language is -- is fair.
11 For Florida State, there was a problem with
12 their implementation of their fee in the fall.
13 So we worked with Regent Uhlfelder and
14 President D'Alemberte to get that passed.
15 However, the students still -- still do
16 have some concerns.
17 Some of the concerns are that the rule is
18 still a little nonspecific in to where the
19 funds would go, a little nonspecific in the
20 representation part.
21 But we respectfully request the Cabinet
22 approve the rule as currently drafted to assist
23 FSU and its students with its current
24 transportation, access, and parking problems.
25 We would also ask you to please assist us
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 76
July 25, 2000
1 in sending a request to the Board of Regents.
2 They mentioned at their last meeting that
3 they would take this up in November. And we
4 are going to try and get our current
5 language -- our -- our previous language that
6 we proposed to the Board back on their agenda
7 in November, and we request from you, if you
8 would help us in assisting us in that matter,
9 getting that agendaed for our November Board
10 meeting, we'd appreciate it.
11 And I would be happy to respond to any
12 questions you may have.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
15 Did the Board of Regents understand the
16 importance of getting this through immediately,
17 and that you're working with the Board of
18 Regents in asking for its approval now.
19 But did they indicate that at their next
20 meeting that they would work with you to pass
21 this language?
22 MR. FOY: They indicated that they would
23 address it at the November meeting. I don't
24 know if it was totally clear that they would
25 take a look at our language, which we feel if
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 77
July 25, 2000
1 it's good enough for statute, the 240.235
2 language would have student representation, we
3 feel that it's good enough for a rule.
4 We have -- we just have concerns, the other
5 nine institutions may not be as friendly and as
6 wonderful as President D'Alemberte, who did go
7 ahead and he initiated a half student committee
8 before the process.
9 So he did the right thing, and we're just
10 asking that the other institutions do the same
11 thing.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: I read the language,
13 and -- and I know this was a -- a big issue
14 when it was passed originally in statute.
15 But in your own words, just for the record,
16 would you just state why you think it's so
17 important that there is student involvement,
18 and why it should be part of what the
19 Board of Regents takes into consideration --
20 MR. FOY: Sure.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- and approved.
22 MR. FOY: Sure.
23 I think students know exactly what's going
24 on in their campus. And I think students deal
25 with all the issues on a day-to-day basis. And
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 78
July 25, 2000
1 they're affected, their pocketbooks are
2 affected, their parents' pocketbooks are
3 affected.
4 I'm actually a student mentor here in
5 Tallahassee at Godby High School, and I mentor
6 a student. And I think their input is valuable
7 and important in the process.
8 That's -- that's why I think those things
9 are in statute in 240.235, and I would hope the
10 Board would readdress this in November.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
12 MR. FOY: Thank you.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Also you want to make sure
14 that the money's going for the right thing.
15 MR. FOY: That's correct.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: If you've got a parking
17 problem in your university, you don't want the
18 lottery effect to kick in, you know, where fees
19 are used for things that -- if it's too
20 vague --
21 MR. FOY: Definitely. Definitely.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- students get the shaft
23 on that stuff.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Every campus has a
25 parking problem. Let me assure you.
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STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 79
July 25, 2000
1 SECRETARY HARRIS: And, Governor, I just
2 think students should have a -- a place at the
3 table. And I hope that we would ask the
4 Board of Regents to take serious consideration
5 of that language.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, let's talk to our
7 Board of Regent member.
8 Commissioner Gallagher. You going to be
9 on -- at the meeting in November?
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Absolutely.
11 Unless something happens, and I won't. But I
12 plan to.
13 I got a little worried about saying
14 absolutely there for a second. But I try not
15 to miss any major meetings.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well --
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I move Item 16.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 MR. FOY: Thank you.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 We'll -- we'll make sure that our
23 individual opinions are expressed to the Board
24 of Regents about the issue.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
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July 25, 2000
1 MR. PIERSON: Items 17 through 27 are
2 appointments.
3 Item 17 is appointment to the Postsecondary
4 Education Planning Commission,
5 Michelle Carlton --
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
7 MR. PIERSON: -- term ending February
8 4th --
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 MR. PIERSON: -- 2004.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
12 Without objection, it's approved.
13 MR. PIERSON: Item 18 is an appointment to
14 the Postsecondary Education
15 Planning Commission, Diane P. Leone.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. PIERSON: Item 19, appointment to
21 District Board of Trustees, Central Florida
22 Community College, Betty Strifler.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 81
July 25, 2000
1 Without objection, it's approved.
2 MR. PIERSON: Item 20, appointment to
3 District Board of Trustees, Edison Community
4 College, Kenneth J. Downing.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Can we move them
7 all at one time?
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: That's fine with
9 me.
10 MR. PIERSON: Works for me.
11 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We'll move them on
12 down to --
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- 27 --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- and seconded.
16 Without --
17 Let's do this one first.
18 Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move the rest
21 of the items down to Item 27.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
24 Without objection, Items -- which number?
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Twenty-seven.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION 82
July 25, 2000
1 It's the last --
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 21 through 27 are
3 approved.
4 (The State Board of Education Agenda was
5 concluded.)
6 * * *
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DEP SITING BOARD 83
July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hello, Kirby.
2 MR. GREEN: Good morning.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Oop. You didn't
7 announce which agenda --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are we -- which -- are we
9 on the Power Plant Siting Board?
10 MR. GREEN: The Siting Board.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
12 MR. GREEN: Item 1 is minutes of the
13 April 25 --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and --
15 MR. GREEN: -- 2000 --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- seconded.
17 Without objection, it approved.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 2 is consideration of an
19 order to -- adopting Administrative Law Judge
20 recommendation to the Siting Board granting
21 full certification to Gulf Power.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
DEP SITING BOARD 84
July 25, 2000
1 (The Department of Environmental Protection
2 Siting Board Agenda was concluded.)
3 * * *
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85
July 25, 2000
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 1 through 84 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 7TH day of AUGUST, 2000.
18
19
20
21
22
23
LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
24 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
25 850/878-2221
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
T H E C A B I N E T
S T A T E O F F L O R I D A
Representing:
STATE BOARD OF ADMINISTRATION
DIVISION OF BOND FINANCE
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS' AFFAIRS
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE
STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION SITING BOARD
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT TRUST FUND
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES
VOLUME II
The above agencies came to be heard before
THE FLORIDA CABINET, Honorable Governor Bush
presiding, in the Cabinet Meeting Room, LL-03,
The Capitol, Tallahassee, Florida, on Tuesday,
July 25, 2000, commencing at approximately 9:15 a.m.
Reported by:
LAURIE L. GILBERT
Registered Professional Reporter
Certified Court Reporter
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Merit Reporter
Notary Public in and for
the State of Florida at Large
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.
100 SALEM COURT
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32301
850/878-2221
87
APPEARANCES:
Representing the Florida Cabinet:
JEB BUSH
Governor
BOB CRAWFORD
Commissioner of Agriculture
BOB MILLIGAN
Comptroller
KATHERINE HARRIS
Secretary of State
BOB BUTTERWORTH
Attorney General
BILL NELSON
Treasurer
TOM GALLAGHER
Commissioner of Education
* * *
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88
July 25, 2000
I N D E X
ITEM ACTION PAGE
BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE
INTERNAL IMPROVEMENT
TRUST FUND:
(Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
1 Approved 89
2 Deferred 120
3 Approved 129
Substitute 4 Deferred 129
5 Approved 177
Substitute 6 Deferred 177
7 Approved 178
8 Approved 199
9 Approved 199
10 Approved 199
11 Approved 200
12 Approved 200
13 Approved 201
14 Approved 201
15 Approved 201
Substitute 16 Approved 202
Substitute 17 Approved 202
18 Deferred 205
19 Approved 176
Second
Substitute 20 Approved 206
Substitute 21 Deferred 206
Substitute 22 Approved 206
Substitute 23 Approved 127
Second
Substitute 24 Approved 156
Substitute 25 Approved 215
26 Withdrawn 215
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE & CONSUMER SERVICES:
(Presented by Kirby B. Green, III,
Deputy Secretary)
1 Approved 219
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 220
* * *
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July 25, 2000
1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Board of Trustees.
2 MR. GREEN: Trustees.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
4 minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
7 Without objection, it's approved.
8 Item 2.
9 MR. GREEN: Item 2 is an application for
10 modification of a five-year sovereignty
11 submerged land lease in Sarasota.
12 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
13 MR. GREEN: I have two speakers.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Anybody against it?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Two speakers?
16 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Are they -- are
18 they opposed to it, or for it --
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Of course.
20 MR. GREEN: The Manatee Club wants to speak
21 on the item.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Come forth.
23 MR. GREEN: Jerry.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you're here,
25 now's your chance.
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1 MR. GREEN: Jerry Karnas.
2 MR. KARNAS: Thanks, Kirby.
3 MR. GREEN: Uh-hum.
4 MR. KARNAS: Good morning, Governor Bush,
5 and members of the Cabinet.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
7 MR. KARNAS: Pat Rose, my boss, is sorry he
8 could not attend this meeting due to health
9 reasons.
10 My name is Jerry Karnas --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: How's he doing?
12 MR. KARNAS: Very -- very well. Yeah.
13 He's going to be --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
15 MR. KARNAS: -- just fine. Thanks for
16 asking.
17 I'm -- my name is Jerry Karnas. I'm
18 Government Relations Assistant for the Club,
19 and I will stand in his stead.
20 If it pleases the Governor and Cabinet, I'd
21 like to address the two items of concern to the
22 Club now. It will be easy to follow, because
23 the items are both located in Sarasota County.
24 And only a mile-and-a-half apart.
25 This -- items I'll speaking to are the Item
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1 Number 2, Sarasota Yacht Club; and Item 18,
2 Core Development, Incorporated --
3 (Commissioner Gallagher exited the room.)
4 MR. KARNAS: -- the Ritz-Carlton.
5 As you all know, manatees are in crisis due
6 to the dramatic escalation of watercraft
7 related mortality over the past five years.
8 Unfortunately, relief is not yet in sight,
9 for we are in the midst of another record
10 breaking year. Current predictions show that
11 10 percent of the estimated manatee population
12 could be dead by end of summer.
13 As of mid-July of this year, 62 manatees
14 had perished from collisions with boats. This
15 number is higher than the annual total for
16 watercraft mortality for all the years since
17 records have been kept, except for two, 1998
18 and 1999.
19 Endangered manatees cannot sustain these
20 types of preventable losses.
21 Eleven years after the Governor and Cabinet
22 outlined Florida's plan for manatee protection,
23 mortality attributed to watercraft should not
24 be escalating in such a dramatic manner.
25 In fact, the current mortality crisis is
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1 the best example we have of how the State has
2 failed to back up its commitment to provide
3 manatees the protections they are afforded
4 under the Manatee Sanctuary Act and the
5 Endangered Species Act.
6 Of the 13 counties originally charged with
7 creating comprehensive county plans for the
8 protection of manatees, only four have
9 completed that task: Collier, Dade, Duval, and
10 Citrus. Of those four, only two have plans
11 that the Club has endorsed: Dade and Citrus.
12 This is an unacceptable situation.
13 In spite of the lack of comprehensive plans
14 for the recovery of manatees, marinas are still
15 permitted without due consideration to the
16 secondary and cumulative impacts these
17 facilities will have on manatees in their
18 habitat.
19 It is clear that the process of leasing
20 sovereign lands has not provided manatees
21 adequate -- adequate protection.
22 Now is the time for you as Trustees of
23 the -- for the people of Florida to address
24 these shortcomings in order to alleviate this
25 near emergency --
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1 (Commissioner Gallagher entered the room.)
2 MR. KARNAS: -- situation.
3 Speed zones are still absent from vital
4 manatee corridors, manatee preserves are too
5 few in number, and enforcement of existing
6 speed zones is grossly inadequate.
7 Given these facts, the Save the Manatee
8 Club has taken a stand, and we are asking the
9 Cabinet to join us. We are opposed to the
10 permitting of projects in manatee habitat
11 unless adequate protection measures are in
12 place.
13 Such measures should include appropriate
14 speed zones and signage, increased enforcement,
15 and additional manatee sanctuaries.
16 With that background in mind, I'd like to
17 move to Item 2, the Sarasota Yacht Club.
18 Sarasota has limited speed zones at best.
19 The channel leading from Sarasota Yacht Club
20 into open water, or Sarasota Bay, is in a
21 25 mile per hour channel, and slow speed
22 outside the channel.
23 In this -- in an area of this size, that is
24 much too fast. Many boats from the -- from
25 this facility will travel to Little
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1 Sarasota Bay and Sarasota Bay. There are no
2 speed zones into Little Sarasota Bay, and
3 extremely limited speed zones in Sarasota Bay.
4 Furthermore, the Commodore of Sarasota
5 Yacht Club told me that he was not even aware
6 that one speed zone existed in Sarasota at all.
7 Well, in fact, he has one right out his
8 back door heading south. This is due to lack
9 of boater education, or this is due to lack of
10 appropriate speed zone signage. If these --
11 these are facts the Cabinet should consider
12 before approving the expansion of this
13 facility.
14 Manatees are numerous in this area.
15 Five point one manatees are observed per aerial
16 survey. Mortality in this area is high as
17 well. Manatees have been killed within
18 5 miles -- 11 manatees have been killed within
19 5 miles of this project in the '90s, and two
20 manatees have been killed in Sarasota this
21 year. One of the animals was killed within a
22 mile of this facility a week ago.
23 Coupled with the construction of new, or
24 the expansion, of existing marinas should be
25 increased protection for manatees. We are
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1 asking that the Cabinet put this project on
2 hold until stronger protection measures are in
3 place.
4 Now I'd like to move to the Ritz-Carlton
5 item, which is Core Development, Incorporated,
6 Item 18.
7 On behalf of the Club, I'd first like to
8 commend staff, the Governor, and Cabinet, for
9 brokering what appears to be an excellent deal
10 for the people of Florida.
11 However, the Club feels that there could be
12 a simple condition inserted in the lease that
13 would make this deal near flawless. The canal
14 that this project resides in is an area that
15 manatees seem to enjoy. A manatee was observed
16 giving birth in this canal, and another manatee
17 was observed with a calf.
18 And from aerial survey data, which I
19 included in your packet, you can see that there
20 are four to five manatees in this canal per
21 aerial survey. The Ritz-Carlton plans a
22 constructed docking facility with one of the
23 parcels they'll purchase. It'll be for seven
24 slips and for boats 45 to 60 feet large.
25 These transient boat slips will be coming
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1 and going, greatly increasing the risk to
2 manatees.
3 As you leave this canal, it opens into
4 Sarasota Bay, the portion where there are no
5 speed zones.
6 We would ask the Governor and Cabinet to
7 include as a special lease condition that
8 construction of the dock will not begin until
9 adequate protection measures are in place.
10 This would include a speed zone in
11 Sarasota Bay, appropriate signage, and an
12 enforcement plan.
13 In closing, I'd like to ask the Cabinet to
14 look at these two projects in terms of their
15 combined impacts on manatees and how you as the
16 Trustees for the people of Florida can lessen
17 these impacts on Florida's official marine
18 mammal.
19 Thank you very much.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for sharing this
21 information.
22 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Could I ask him a
23 question while he's here, just a quick
24 question? I meant to ask this last time.
25 Just -- just out of curiosity, has the Club
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1 ever looked into propeller guards as a way of
2 avoiding some of these problems on engines?
3 MR. KARNAS: Well, the -- as part of the
4 Manatee Recovery Plan, the Fish and Wildlife
5 Service was charged with developing that
6 technology. And I believe that that technology
7 has mainly focused for larger vessels such as
8 tugboats and vessels like sea tractors.
9 But for smaller, you know, commercial
10 boats, it's -- I think that at this point,
11 it's -- we're very far off from that.
12 In fact, I mean -- but that still wouldn't
13 lessen the impact damage to manatees. That
14 would only solve part of the problem.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: What -- what is -- where is
16 the -- Sarasota County on its Manatee
17 Protection Plan?
18 MR. KARNAS: Well, they haven't completed
19 it. I -- I don't know how far along they are.
20 And I don't -- I don't --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kirby, do you know?
22 MR. GREEN: No, sir.
23 Back -- back when the Protected Species
24 Bureau was with-- within the Department, they
25 were in the process of -- of trying to finalize
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1 it and get it back to Protected Species for
2 their review.
3 I don't know that that's been completed at
4 this point. So I -- I know that they don't
5 have an approved plan. But we have funded them
6 to -- to help produce the plan.
7 And I think it's going back between the
8 Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission and the --
9 and the County on exactly the final --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do you have a time --
11 MR. GREEN: -- conditions of that.
12 No, sir, I don't. Not right now. I can
13 find out though.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I'm -- I personally
15 believe that that ought to be part of the
16 consideration here. I think the point that you
17 make is a very good one, that in a time of
18 crisis, we shouldn't be expanding marinas
19 without having -- using some influence to try
20 to accelerate these manatee protection plans
21 across the state.
22 I -- I don't know when this was -- the law
23 was passed for these plans, but I think it was
24 in the 1980s, wasn't it?
25 MR. KARNAS: '89.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: And yet there's only two
2 that have been approved. And I think -- that's
3 just inappropriate, because it's a tough thing
4 to do. I mean, it's not easy to get consensus
5 and to get a shared vision in communities, and
6 there's all these competing interests.
7 But I don't think it is appropriate for the
8 Board of Trustees to allow for --
9 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- the expansion of these
11 facilities without some indication that the
12 counties are sincere about working to develop a
13 plan.
14 MR. GREEN: And --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: So I'm going to vote no,
16 unless there's -- you can give me more
17 specifics about --
18 MR. GREEN: Okay.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- Sarasota's commitment.
20 MR. GREEN: Governor, the -- the biggest
21 issue I -- I think when we've looked at manatee
22 protection plans around the state are -- is the
23 component that deals with marina siting, and
24 where marinas should be sited with-- within the
25 communities.
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1 For -- for Item 2, it -- it's sited in a --
2 in an area that in a Manatee Protection Plan
3 would be one of the ideal areas --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: But, Kirby, there --
5 MR. GREEN: -- for a site --
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- is no Manatee Protection
7 Plan. That's the point. I mean, it --
8 MR. GREEN: Yes, sir.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- it would be -- and --
10 and I think the point -- I don't know if the
11 Save the Manatee Club would be supportive of a
12 marina expansion under any circumstance.
13 I've yet to see that happen. But I would,
14 if there was a Manatee Protection Plan in
15 place. You know, so --
16 MR. GREEN: Right.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we're gett-- putting the
19 cart before the horse I think.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Are there people here
21 from the Sarasota County Marina that are --
22 Yacht Club that wants to speak to this? Or --
23 MR. GREEN: Yes. We have one.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Maybe we could have some
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1 ques-- questions answered.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: I do want to ask one
4 question:
5 You said there were only two counties in
6 the entire state that have completed their --
7 MR. KARNAS: Yeah. Let me -- let me clar--
8 there actually are four. But in terms of
9 the -- we've only endorsed two. We feel that
10 the one in Collier and the one in Duval are --
11 are weak. But they're -- out of four out of
12 thirteen, and they were charged to do this
13 eleven years ago, 1989.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: I think that -- I'd like
15 to ask you another question. Because it -- it
16 does concern me, if not -- in 1989, that we
17 still aren't current and up-to-date.
18 But I can tell from the -- it has an
19 existing protection plan -- I boat
20 occasionally, and so I do know that there
21 are -- there are manatee zones in -- in
22 Sarasota County. But obviously it's still not
23 completed.
24 I guess my concern is -- and -- and, Kirby,
25 I'd like you both to play at this since we have
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1 been talking about these issues with other
2 marinas that are sited.
3 And, Kirby, you say that it is -- this
4 really is for the siting of marinas.
5 Do you feel that -- right now that this
6 project should be rejected, or do you think you
7 can work with -- it's kind of a local issue in
8 terms of there are -- completing -- the local
9 government completing the manatee plan.
10 Do you think that this -- this expansion of
11 an existing site should be -- should not be
12 approved until -- at whatever point the local
13 government finishes?
14 MR. KARNAS: Yeah. We wouldn't -- we
15 wouldn't be here today if the adequate
16 protection measures were in place for Sarasota.
17 So, I -- yeah, the answer is that -- is
18 that we'd like it to be put on hold until,
19 you know, what we feel and -- you know, and --
20 biologists from Protected Species and other
21 places feel is an -- is an adequate plan to
22 protect the manatees in Sarasota.
23 If you look at the maps I provided you, for
24 the one that the -- the speed zones, you see
25 that there are large portions of Sarasota Bay
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1 between Longboat Key -- actually the majority
2 of that map was without a speed zone.
3 And the -- many of the boaters from this
4 facility will go south from that little island
5 that -- to where they're located, and they'll
6 head up into Sarasota Bay.
7 Because according to the Commodore, they
8 have a very elderly clientele, they're slow --
9 slow going. So many of them probably are
10 not -- are not sport fishing in the Gulf. Many
11 of them are probably leisurely cruising through
12 the areas where there are no speed zones.
13 So, you know, if these boats are also
14 45 to 60 feet big -- I mean, large -- I mean,
15 in length, and so they -- you know, they have a
16 tremendous potential to, you know, hurt
17 manatees.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let's hear from the
19 Sarasota folks, how about that?
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Great.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there someone from
22 Sarasota County here?
23 MR. GREEN: No, sir. But there's a --
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh.
25 MR. GREEN: -- representative of the --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, the Yacht Club.
2 I'm sorry.
3 MR. GREEN: Ken Plante.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Hey, Ken. Welcome.
5 MR. PLANTE: Governor and Cabinet, my name
6 is Ken Plante. I'm standing here today for
7 Jeremy Craft, who had a conflict.
8 So I've got a couple of comments.
9 One, I appreciate the concern for
10 Sarasota County and the manatee plan, and -- or
11 the lack of it. And I don't think the
12 Sarasota Yacht Club is trying to do anything
13 that would hurt the manatees.
14 This facility has been there for years.
15 And the expansion of it, as Kirby said, is the
16 ideal location for a marina.
17 I think we're dealing with apples and
18 oranges here. If -- there are more boats,
19 there are going to be more boats, there's
20 always going to be more boats.
21 You never see all of the boat ramps that
22 are going in that don't require any kind of
23 approval at all that people can just put their
24 boats in. There are thousands of boats being
25 put in. We're talking about 24 slips.
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1 I would -- I think you have to look at them
2 differently, because if you -- if what I hear
3 you saying, Governor, is this is --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm saying, we're about
5 ready to -- there -- there's an endangered
6 species that's close to being extinct in
7 Florida's waters.
8 MR. PLANTE: Right.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: And I don't want to be part
10 of that. That's what I'm saying, to be --
11 MR. PLANTE: Well, the -- the Yacht Club --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- real blunt about that.
13 MR. PLANTE: -- doesn't -- does not want to
14 be part of that either.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, good. Then --
16 MR. PLANTE: I can assure you --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- then maybe we could use
18 this as a catalyst to push the State agency
19 responsible for this, and the -- the County
20 government to create a Manatee Protection Plan
21 so that we can have competing interests in the
22 waters where people -- you know, there's a
23 win-win.
24 MR. PLANTE: Well, what I -- if I may --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: And the idea that you're
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1 not -- you know, that if you -- if -- if we --
2 if your marina's not expanded, that somehow
3 there's going to be more boats in the water
4 kind of misses the point of our responsibility
5 I think.
6 MR. PLANTE: Okay.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You know, we don't have a
8 responsibility for every entry into Florida's
9 waters. But we do as it relates to marinas.
10 MR. PLANTE: I -- and I appreciate that.
11 And I didn't mean to suggest -- what I'm
12 suggesting is that I -- I don't think Save the
13 Manatee Club likes any expansion of anyone.
14 And if this -- this decision is basically a
15 moratorium on any expansion in Sarasota.
16 What I would suggest, if I may, is that
17 rather than denying this, that it be deferred
18 to the next Cabinet meeting to give the
19 Yacht Club members an opportunity to work with
20 the -- the staff of the Department, and get
21 with the County to see if we can come up with a
22 resolution that may satisfy the Save the
23 Manatee Club.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'll move to defer
25 to the September meeting.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: And that's good, because
2 there's an extra month. So --
3 There's a motion to defer.
4 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
6 Any other discussion?
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I -- yes.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
9 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Go ahead.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: I just had another
11 question of -- with regard to the manatees.
12 Only because in the past, I'm just trying
13 to develop my only -- my own outlook and
14 policy, and I'm very interested in saving the
15 manatees.
16 But along the way, we've been voting for
17 marina expansions. And -- previously in
18 Cabinet meetings. So -- but I'm very concerned
19 about these manatee plans.
20 And it seems like it -- it may a little bit
21 be apples and oranges, and I -- and I kind of
22 want to get -- I really appreciate what the
23 Governor said, because I -- I want -- I think
24 we must focus more on the manatee issue.
25 But in the meantime, some of these
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1 existing -- again, if this is the siting --
2 these manatee protection zones are really --
3 when we're looking at it, we're -- we've been
4 using that information with regard to new
5 marinas, instead of the expansions.
6 So I guess one of my questions, that we
7 would direct the -- if we could direct the
8 Cabinet Aides to get -- to get a lot more
9 involved, and get a lot more information
10 because I -- I kind of want to vote
11 consistently any time we're voting for these
12 expansions of existing marinas.
13 And I would like to ask one more question
14 concerning the Sarasota issue, because it's my
15 hometown and my home county, and I'm -- I'm
16 very interested. And I realize it's your --
17 your --
18 MR. KARNAS: My hometown --
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- perspective.
20 MR. KARNAS: -- too.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: So as this is an ideal
22 location, but in terms of the entire county,
23 what percentage of this Manatee Protection
24 Plan -- because I can see where it's --
25 you know, there -- there are certainly parts --
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1 more boating -- that it's very well -- there's
2 a lot of signage, and it's very well regarded
3 in terms of --
4 MR. KARNAS: Well --
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- protection. What
6 percentage are we completed with the plan?
7 MR. KARNAS: That would be a difficult
8 question to answer right now, because some of
9 the existing zones --
10 For instance, it's a little misleading.
11 You have to look at the actual map here.
12 Some of them are 25 mile an hour in the
13 channel, and slow speed outside the channel.
14 What I -- what I would envision is that maybe
15 that -- that some of those channels would have
16 to slow down.
17 And then also, there'd have to be buffers
18 along the shore and -- in which would be the
19 portion that -- where you don't see any speed
20 zones at all. And that would be the major part
21 of Sarasota Bay heading north along Longboat
22 up -- until you get to Manatee County.
23 So I would say that -- I don't know if I
24 can give an exact percentage, but I'd say it's
25 maybe 30 to 40 percent complete.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: And what -- and what
2 kind of success have you work-- had with
3 working with the local government in terms of
4 completing this plan?
5 MR. KARNAS: Well, I am new to the Club, so
6 I don't know the history of Sarasota's drive
7 to -- to get their plan in place.
8 But I -- I do know that it is very -- it's
9 a difficult process, there are many different
10 interests involved. And oftentimes manatees
11 come up on the short end when the final
12 decision's made.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: And obviously with only
14 four plans in place statewide, that -- we have
15 a lot of work to do.
16 MR. KARNAS: Yes.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
18 MR. KARNAS: Thank you.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: General.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Governor,
21 thank you for your leadership on this.
22 I believe this particular action today is the
23 most significant thing we've done in over --
24 probably a decade in -- in order to protect the
25 manatee. So --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: You got into me.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: -- so I --
3 really, I mean -- really, it's a -- it's a
4 very, very important issue.
5 And people -- people in the state seem to
6 have forgotten that maybe about 15 years ago,
7 we started to do a little bit of work with the
8 manatee. And then people started to get a
9 little bit complacent, and they thought that
10 this particular Board up here was going to
11 approve anything, no matter what.
12 So -- so what we're doing here today I
13 think is one of the most significant things
14 we've ever done for the manatee.
15 So -- so thank you, Governor.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, General.
17 Commissioner.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: A ques-- a question
19 for Kirby.
20 Knowing the ins and outs of these manatee
21 zones, do you think the County could get one in
22 place by September?
23 MR. GREEN: No, sir, I don't. It --
24 really -- you have speed zones that -- that we
25 adopt by rules. Now the Game and Fresh Water
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1 Fish Commission adopt by rules, and you have
2 the Manatee Protection Plan, which is a
3 document that's adopted by the local government
4 through ordinance, and -- and then we approve
5 it.
6 They -- the Manatee Protection Plan
7 includes statements about where -- where speed
8 zones should exist, and -- and general
9 conditions about the way that you should site
10 marinas in those areas. But they don't
11 establish the speed zones themself.
12 So it -- it -- it's a multiphased process.
13 Those will have to go through a hearing
14 process at local government. So we won't be
15 ready with in-place speed zones by September to
16 move forward.
17 One other thing I -- I would -- I don't
18 want to leave you with the indication though --
19 or the -- the impression that the counties have
20 not been working on manatee protection plans.
21 In -- in 1989, the Governor and Cabinet
22 said that we should establish manatee
23 protection plans in 13 of -- of the counties
24 around the state. And -- and the Department of
25 Natural Resources then, and now the -- the
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1 Fish and Wildlife Commission are -- are
2 committing money and staff to those counties to
3 help them prepare those plans.
4 They haven't been completed yet. Most --
5 most of the time it's because there are one or
6 two issues that the local -- the local citizens
7 are -- are very vocal about. And -- and the
8 county commissions are trying to work through
9 those issues and address both manatee
10 protection and the concerns of their citizens
11 while they develop those.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's tough.
13 MR. GREEN: So it's --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's no question about
15 it. But if there's no consequence to making a
16 decision and not making a decision, by its very
17 nature, the way the government process works,
18 whether it's local or state, there's no
19 decision going to be made.
20 MR. GREEN: That's right.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: I mean, we have to come to
22 grips with this.
23 MR. GREEN: I --
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Governor, I --
25 MR. GREEN: -- don't disagree.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- think, too --
2 MR. GREEN: I just wanted to make sure that
3 you knew that the counties were working.
4 They -- they're -- they're not just sitting
5 back doing nothing about this issue.
6 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I guess the only
7 other thing I'd say is just -- just in -- I
8 rode by the site, I guess, when we had the
9 Cabinet meeting in Sarasota, and it looked like
10 the hotel was just barely under construction.
11 So it's going to be quite a while before
12 they're actually going to need the slips.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: That's right.
14 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So I think we've
15 got time. Even if September is not the
16 adequate time to get a full plan in place,
17 I think by then, maybe we could see some
18 substantive movement to get to where we need
19 to --
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's a different --
21 that's a different issue than where we --
22 MR. KARNAS: That's --
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- are right now.
24 That's 18 I think --
25 MR. KARNAS: But --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- with the --
2 MR. KARNAS: -- but it is good that you're
3 looking at them together, because they are only
4 a mile-and-a-half apart.
5 But if -- if you are considering the -- the
6 Ritz-Carlton at this point, it's a very
7 important project to Sarasota.
8 And if anyone can really have a strong say
9 in a -- in a parti-- speed zone outside of that
10 canal, I believe that the Ritz-Carlton would
11 have a -- a strong voice in that matter.
12 SECRETARY HARRIS: But your concern on the
13 Ritz-Carlton, is it not correct, has more to do
14 with the boat slips, and not to do with --
15 MR. KARNAS: Well --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- the expansion?
17 MR. KARNAS: Oh. Well, you see -- well,
18 that -- that's going to be a new -- a new
19 docking facility. And -- so the -- the
20 Ritz-Carlton isn't being expanded. They'll be
21 creating new -- seven new docks.
22 The -- the Sarasota Yacht Club is 24 -- is
23 a 24 slip expansion. And the -- in fact, where
24 the Ritz-Carlton is located, the -- that's
25 where there's absolutely no speed zones at all.
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1 So that's what we -- you know, that --
2 that's where I was saying we'd like as a
3 special lease con-- I mean, a special sale
4 condition, construction on the dock would not
5 begin until the speed zone was in place.
6 But if you -- if you look at the map for
7 the Yacht Club, Little Sarasota Bay has no
8 speed zone there. And that -- that would be
9 one place to start for -- you know, in terms of
10 next September's meeting for the expansion of
11 the Yacht Club.
12 If there was a speed zone there, it would
13 make things a lot better. Because that meant
14 that people going up into the intracoastal
15 waterway would have -- you know, would have to
16 at least go slow before they got to the --
17 you know, the cross-over bridge there to go to
18 St. Arman's (phonetic).
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: While you're here, I do
20 want to clarify, when you've jumped to Item 18,
21 part of what we're approving today is -- is not
22 only the docks, it's -- it's a deck, it's
23 gardens, it's all those other things, and they
24 need to have that --
25 MR. KARNAS: Well, actually --
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- that current.
2 MR. KARNAS: -- you're -- I -- the dock is
3 not before you today. So I didn't want -- I
4 didn't want to mislead you in any way on that.
5 It's just the sale, and we -- you know, we
6 don't -- we're not opposing the sale. We just
7 would like to see something -- some reassurance
8 that before that dock is -- is -- is completed,
9 that there would be a -- a -- a manatee zone
10 outside of that canal.
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Secondly, I know that
12 there is a meeting in Sarasota tonight among
13 the residents who are opposed to that
14 expansion.
15 Are you going to get to be a part of that
16 meeting?
17 MR. KARNAS: Yes. We've been in contact
18 with their attorney, Dan Lobeck, and we're
19 keeping -- we're very -- we're spread thin
20 right now, but we're going to try to keep as --
21 as --
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: Finally, Governor. I'm
23 sorry to be dwelling on this so much. It's an
24 important issue to me.
25 And this is for Kirby.
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1 I guess my only concern, and this is really
2 what I want to focus on when you come back, at
3 least from my understanding, we're voting every
4 Cabinet meeting on two or three marina
5 expansions, and we haven't really gotten into
6 all this, and we've been consistently doing
7 that for existing sites. This is supposed to
8 be an ideal site.
9 So, you know, if we're going to move -- if
10 they're going to move forward, maybe they can
11 start looking at -- at that adjacent site. I
12 just want to make sure that we're consistent
13 in our policy, and we're not just singling
14 something out to -- to make -- to make a
15 statement.
16 MR. GREEN: Yeah.
17 One -- one other statement from the
18 Department's perspective.
19 As we do these reviews, we -- we do consult
20 with the Protected Species group, and -- and
21 get their approval before we move forward
22 with -- with an approval on a -- on a marina,
23 and -- and make sure that there's -- those
24 conditions are reflected in -- in the
25 conditions of the permit.
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1 So those things do occur. And, in fact, on
2 this one, with the conditions that we currently
3 have in -- in place for the permit and the --
4 the submerged land lease, the Protected Species
5 Bureau have -- have signed off on that.
6 So it's not that we -- we don't take that
7 into consideration.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's a -- that's an
9 important --
10 MR. GREEN: This is a heightened --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- it's an important
12 issue. And I think that perhaps even by the
13 level of conversation that's gone on today,
14 hopefully local governments throughout the
15 state will recognize in coastal areas that we
16 really do care about this issue and that they
17 need to be more aggressive in the plans.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. So where are we
19 here? Item --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Four.
21 COMPTROLLER MILLIGAN: Two.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- 2, is it still --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Well, we're --
24 MR. GREEN: We need to finish up Item --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Did we --
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1 MR. GREEN: We're going to defer it I --
2 I believe --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah.
4 Did we move -- have we already approved
5 that? I don't think we have.
6 If there's a motion to defer, and a second.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
9 approved.
10 MR. GREEN: Governor, President D'Alemberte
11 is -- is here, and would like to take up
12 Item 23 out of order, if possible.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh, I don't know.
14 Okay.
15 MR. GREEN: Okay. Item --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Mr. President, how are you
17 doing? Come on up.
18 MR. GREEN: Item 23 is consideration of an
19 option agreement to acquire --
20 (Attorney General Butterworth exited the
21 room.)
22 MR. GREEN: -- 50.04 acres by the
23 Board of Regents.
24 And it's -- second is a 50-year lease to
25 the Board of Regents; three is a 50-year
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1 sublease to -- from the Board of Regents and
2 the Florida State University School, Inc.; four
3 is a 25-year ground -- ground lease between FSU
4 and the City of Tallahassee.
5 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Governor, members of the
6 Cabinet, I think you've been pretty well
7 briefed on this.
8 I'll answer questions that this is a very
9 important project for us. An awful lot depends
10 on this going forward. We've managed to put it
11 together in probably the most complicated way.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm glad you're honest
13 enough to --
14 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: And I know that's --
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- admit it.
16 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: -- added to the amusement
17 of your Cabinet Aides and others. But this has
18 been thoroughly bedded by the Board of Regents,
19 and by our counsel.
20 Again, looking back on it, I wonder if we
21 had to give everybody quite as much
22 entertainment as we gave them, looking through
23 the details.
24 But this does work, it's got the safeguards
25 in it, and -- and I hope the Cabinet will
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1 approve it.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, Tom.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: At -- at this
4 point, I'd like to just put on the table, I'd
5 like to make a motion to approve this item with
6 two stipulations for this agreement, and a
7 clarification regarding this type of financing
8 for charter schools:
9 Number one, as a condition for approval,
10 the construction document must be approved by
11 the Department of Education's Bureau of
12 Educational Facilities, using the State
13 requirements for educational facilities --
14 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- as the building
16 code.
17 Two, also I'd like to reaffirm that a
18 Certified Uniform Building Code Inspector must
19 provide inspection.
20 I've been told that the charter school
21 corporation intends to do this, and I think
22 it's a good idea, so I'd like to -- just to
23 confirm that requirement.
24 And, three, finally, this issue indicates a
25 need for a comprehensive policy to specifically
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1 address funding for charter schools, and this
2 financing structure is not what we want to
3 duplicate in the future. There are unique
4 circumstancing -- circumstances surrounding
5 this school that we wouldn't expect to see
6 again from another school. It's a lab school
7 and a charter school.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Except for maybe FAMU.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's part of a new
10 development at Southwood; it's located next to
11 a State office complex; there are contributions
12 being made by a third party, et cetera.
13 So I don't want -- and I don't believe we,
14 as a State Board of Education, want this to be
15 perceived as a setting of any kind of
16 precedent. And I just want to clarify that for
17 the record.
18 With that said, I move to approve this
19 item, with those conditions.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: It's moved and seconded.
22 Mr. President, does that --
23 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: We -- we appreciate that.
24 And my understanding from the Commissioner's
25 office, that they're willing to do the
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1 architectural review within a couple of weeks,
2 and we think that's -- that will be very
3 helpful to us.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Could --
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: We --
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- will do this --
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: Sorry.
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- we'd like to --
10 like to let you know, we do -- will give you a
11 two-week turn-around, and probably one week.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: There you go.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: But we'll commit
14 to two weeks.
15 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: I'd like that one week
16 twice as much as two weeks.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Our staff likes it
18 half as much, but we're willing to do it.
19 TREASURER NELSON: Governor --
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let me also add
21 that as opposed to local governments, we will
22 approve in stages as you go along so that it
23 helps the construction process move quicker.
24 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Exactly.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: So with those two
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1 caveats, I -- I'm sure it'll make it a -- a
2 faster project, as opposed to slower.
3 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Thank you.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Nelson, and
5 then Secretary of State Harris.
6 TREASURER NELSON: What are you planning to
7 put in the place over there on your campus of
8 the high school?
9 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Commissioner Nelson,
10 and -- a range of things. First of all,
11 there's a 50 million dollar basic science
12 medical school building that will go there; a
13 new psychology building that has been funded;
14 and a chemistry building which we raised,
15 in part, private dollars will -- will -- will
16 go somewhere in that vicinity.
17 We still haven't got the final plan. I
18 intend to look at that next week.
19 I wanted to make sure we had the land to
20 put it on before I spent time -- spending too
21 much time planning what's going on.
22 But it's -- it's critical for us. As you
23 know, we're the smallest campus in the
24 State University System, and we really need
25 that 24 acres.
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1 TREASURER NELSON: The areas along Gaines
2 that you've been redoing are really looking
3 very nice.
4 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Thank you. I -- I'm
5 really proud of the people that have been
6 working --
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Absolutely.
8 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: -- on that.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine?
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you, Governor.
11 Just two -- one question, if you could just
12 clarify that we have adequate assurance. I
13 think Ben Watkins said that -- concerning the
14 general cred-- the general credit, or the lien
15 structure that he was -- it was relatively
16 sound, and that -- that qualification made me
17 just a little nervous.
18 I appreciate the Commissioner of
19 Education's, you know, saying we don't want to
20 typically do this.
21 But do we have adequate assurance that the
22 land structure and the general credit's going
23 to --
24 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Yeah.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- be sound.
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1 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: I think after the
2 Legislature put together legislation which
3 changed some of the funding formulas, I think
4 we're really quite -- quite good shape. I -- I
5 feel very comfortable with it.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Do any members of the
7 Cabinet have any complex esoteric questions to
8 ask the General Counsel of FSU, who's just
9 joined President D'Alemberte, so we can haze
10 him?
11 Hearing none.
12 Any other discussion?
13 There's a motion and --
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Thank God.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- a second.
16 Without objection, it's approved.
17 We appreciate --
18 DR. D'ALEMBERTE: Thank you very much,
19 Governor.
20 Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- you coming.
22 MR. GREEN: Back to Item 3.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Item 3.
24 You know, if we're going to go out of
25 order, there have been a lot of people here
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1 that are probably -- if I had to guess, they're
2 neighbors related to the Blair Stone issue,
3 I believe. Is that right?
4 You all are part of that -- all that big
5 group in the middle?
6 No?
7 MS. RASMUSSEN: They're all outside.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: They're all outside?
9 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. You want to
10 take --
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a big group?
12 Why don't we -- if -- you know, if --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If we're --
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- we're going to let --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Let's do one, and
16 let them come in while we're doing the --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- next one.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
20 MR. GREEN: It's Item 24 is where we're
21 going to be going after this -- this item.
22 Item 3 is consideration of an application
23 for a five-year sovereign submerged land lease,
24 authorization to dredge 800 cubic yards of
25 material, and waiver of severance fees.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a motion?
2 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Okay.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer
8 Number 4.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion to defer and a
11 second.
12 Without objection, the motion is -- the
13 item is deferred.
14 MR. GREEN: Okay. Item 2-- the Second
15 Substitute Item 24 is consideration of
16 conveyance of 15.99 acres to the City of
17 Tallahassee; the issuance of a perpetual
18 nonexclusive easement to the City of
19 Tallahassee, over 22.46 acres, and the
20 acknowledgment that the proceeds from the sale
21 of the 15.99 acres will be split between the
22 Department of Health and the Department of
23 Children and Family on a 50/50 basis.
24 And we have a number of speakers, Governor.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
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1 Here we go.
2 MR. GREEN: And --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: If we could be --
4 (Attorney General Butterworth entered the
5 room.)
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- if we could just --
7 the -- the speakers could be as brief as
8 possible so that we can get all the
9 information, but not be repetitive, it would be
10 great.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
12 MR. GREEN: Representing --
13 (Commissioner Crawford exited the room.)
14 MR. GREEN: -- first, I'd like to repres--
15 recognize Mayor Scott Maddox. I think he wants
16 to speak last from what I've been told. So
17 we'll keep that request.
18 Dan Dayhoff, Neighborhood Environmental
19 Preservation Coalition.
20 MR. DAYHOFF: Governor Bush, honored
21 members of the Cabinet. We thank you for this
22 opportunity to speak before you today.
23 My name is Dan Dayhoff, and I'm
24 Vice President of the Neighborhood
25 Environmental Protection Coalition,
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1 Incorporated, an alliance of neighborhood
2 associations, family land holdings, and
3 individual citizens who wish to address the
4 potential impacts of continued development in
5 the Leon County area on both established
6 outlying neighborhoods, and the environment in
7 general.
8 Today we come before you to bring you some
9 additional information, as we did to your staff
10 aides last week, relative to what we believe
11 could be a potential long-term environmental
12 problem with the Phillips Road Pond Project as
13 it relates to the building of the
14 Blair Stone Road Extension.
15 (Commissioner Crawford entered the room.)
16 MR. DAYHOFF: We will now bring forth our
17 geological expert to testify to you.
18 MR. PRICE: Governor Bush --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
20 MR. PRICE: -- members of the Cabinet, I'm
21 a little nervous to be in front of you. I've
22 never gotten this high up in State government
23 before.
24 But I'm a geologist in the state of
25 Florida, registered, been a geologist for
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1 26 years. I've worked in the mining industry
2 and exploration, mapping.
3 I've worked for DEP in their
4 Water Management District, Suwannee River Water
5 Management District, for 10 years; and I've
6 been working for myself as a consulting
7 geologist for the past six years.
8 And the citizens had asked me to review the
9 data and give an opinion -- review the data
10 that had been produced that concluded that,
11 number one, their area was not a sinkhole; and
12 to see if I agreed with that finding based upon
13 the information that was given.
14 And I can see in the -- the issue statement
15 that you are looking at here that -- that
16 you've had -- the City has conducted
17 engineering and geological studies which have
18 concluded that impacts would be negligible.
19 Well, there's some -- if you -- I don't
20 know if you have this report in front of you.
21 I -- you know, it's -- it was passed out to
22 you.
23 But anyway, there was a -- a geotechnical
24 study involved the drilling -- involved the
25 drilling of three monitor wells in this basin.
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1 And that was the extent of the drilling that
2 was done to conclude that this was not a
3 sinkhole.
4 And I've been in the business for a long
5 time. And if somebody had asked me to evaluate
6 whether something was a sinkhole or not, it
7 wouldn't have been done with three holes in the
8 bottom of the sinkhole, it would had to have
9 related to the entire surrounding area, the
10 location of the limestone, and how it relates
11 to the basin that you're in.
12 So I -- I had a -- a real problem with the
13 lack of information that was used to produce
14 that statement in the -- in this EGS report.
15 And in that report, in these three
16 monitor wells, they had measured the water
17 level in the monitor wells in the -- in the
18 sedimentary type of a basin. And one of the
19 monitor wells showed a water level of 9 feet
20 below surface, and the other ones were 45 feet
21 below land surface.
22 And I don't -- it wasn't brought out in the
23 report, but the bottom line -- what that really
24 means is that there is some rapid movement of
25 water through that system. Otherwise, you
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1 couldn't have had that sort of a mounding
2 effect.
3 And the pressure gradients, you know, were
4 never brought out in that report. So there's a
5 question there as to why wasn't that evaluated?
6 The sediments themselves in the pile were
7 never classified as clays, they were always
8 classified as sediments, sandy silty sediments,
9 and not clays. They did a sieve analysis, and
10 the sieve analysis generally showed that
11 50 percent of the material was above 200 sieve;
12 and minus 200 sieves, a very, very fine,
13 talcum powder size stuff, that would be silts
14 and clays.
15 So there wasn't sufficient clay-like
16 material in there to -- you know, to call that
17 thing plugged with clay, which is what --
18 generally what was said.
19 Tom Kwader's report, you know, with
20 Woodward-Clyde, generally agreed with the data
21 that was presented in that first report.
22 You know, from my perspective, reading his
23 report, I got the sense that he was kind of
24 walking around the issue and saying that if
25 this information is accepted, then -- you know,
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1 then I conclude what it says is true. Except
2 for one major difference.
3 The EGS report said it wasn't a sinkhole,
4 Woodward-Clyde's report said it was definitely
5 karst related. Karst related is generally
6 sinkhole related or subsidence related. But,
7 anyway, your land forms are formed by your
8 dissolution of the limestone.
9 It's also stated that the basin itself was
10 a subsidence basin and not a collapsed basin.
11 You know, I don't -- I'm not trying -- I'm not
12 trying to get too technical with this thing.
13 But the bottom line is that they're stating
14 that this is not a collapse sinkhole, it's a
15 subsidence sinkhole, which is a general
16 subsidence into the limestone.
17 And the -- there's a U.S. -- there's a -- a
18 Florida Geologic Survey Bulletin Number 47, and
19 it traces a lot of fracture systems in
20 Leon County.
21 And in -- and in that -- and also in that
22 report, they state that above a certain point,
23 any sinkhole that occurs generally is going to
24 be a collapse type of a sinkhole.
25 And this particular pond, Phillips Road
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1 Pond, falls within this area where only
2 collapse sinkholes occurred. Now, after the
3 sinkhole occurs, you start widening it up and
4 you get subsidence.
5 But the initial formation of this thing is
6 through collapse.
7 And this is a picture of the sinkhole area,
8 or the Phillips Road Pond area. And because
9 it's in black here, this is the area also.
10 Those three monitor wells were drilled in here
11 in the bottom of that pond.
12 And the information would tend to lead you
13 to believe that there's a rapid movement of
14 that groundwater as it enters that pond down to
15 the aquifer, which is only 45 feet below --
16 these things were made below level, which is
17 the distance across this room here probably.
18 And I -- you know, if you can't impede that
19 water flow through that pond, then you're not
20 really filtering out the contaminants.
21 My main purpose in here is to tell you
22 that, indeed, it is a sinkhole; and more than
23 likely, by any -- you know, studies that I have
24 seen done, it was formed through a collapse and
25 not a subsidence.
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1 The sediments in it are definitely sands,
2 or not a clay, as DEP had suggested in one of
3 their reasons for issuing a general permit.
4 And -- and in that FGS bulletin, it clear--
5 you -- you can -- I don't know -- it's in front
6 of you there, but clearly shows that there's a
7 fracture trace going through Lake Jackson, all
8 the way through Lake Lafayette.
9 Well, it doesn't show it going through
10 Lake Lafayette, but it states it in the report
11 that it does.
12 But anyway, that Phillips Pond Road, that
13 pond there falls right in line with this
14 fracture system. So there's really no doubt
15 that it's -- the pond is directly over a
16 fracture system.
17 And if -- in talking about major fracture
18 systems or major subsidence basins, all of
19 these big lakes: Lake Jackson, Lake Iamonia,
20 Lake Miccosukee, Lake Lafayette, they're all
21 formed the same way this area here is forming,
22 too.
23 And they all are controlled by sinkholes,
24 which breach those sediments in that pond and
25 drain down to the aquifer. So --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
2 MR. PRICE: -- that's my --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
4 Thanks for coming.
5 It wasn't that tough, was it?
6 MR. PRICE: Well, I don't know.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You did it pretty good.
8 MR. PRICE: It's done though.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: He was nervous when he
10 started. He shouldn't have been nervous.
11 MR. DAYHOFF: Just to briefly close for our
12 side, the -- Mr. Tom Tomasello, who's our
13 counsel, is in the -- in the room in case
14 anyone has any questions for him now, or at a
15 later point in time.
16 And also with -- the -- the Blair Stone
17 Road project in various lifes -- life spans has
18 been around probably for about ten years.
19 We don't want to see at this point a rush
20 to judgment on this transfer, given all of the
21 different sides that we see coming forth on all
22 these geological opinions.
23 At -- at best case for us would be a -- a
24 refusal of the transfer. But at a minimum,
25 we're asking for perhaps a stay of another
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1 Cabinet cycle so that some independent people
2 can be hired that everybody agrees on --
3 in fact, are independent and they're not State
4 employees and geological employees, et cetera,
5 et cetera.
6 And that we could use that time period to
7 go about that investigation so that we can
8 assure ourselves that our water quality will,
9 in fact, be maintained.
10 While we don't believe that our elected
11 officials would deliberately go forward with
12 something that would be hazardous to any of us,
13 we do believe that there are some quantifiable
14 risks that may be willing to take here on their
15 side. And we don't agree with the quantity of
16 that risk at this point.
17 Thank you very much for your time.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
19 Who's next, Kirby?
20 MR. GREEN: We have a State geologist if
21 you want to ask questions of another geologist
22 about sinkholes.
23 If not, Mayor Maddox.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: We've got --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor --
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: -- the report.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Can I --
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine, please.
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Maybe it was the
5 breakfast I had at your house this morning.
6 I'm sorry.
7 I'll never get invited back.
8 Can -- may we hear from the State geologist
9 that you just -- you just mentioned?
10 MR. GREEN: Yeah. Walt Schmidt.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: You shouldn't be ashamed of
12 doing your job.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Good morning.
14 MR. SCHMIDT: If I have a couple minutes, I
15 can give you a summary; or if you'd --
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: That'd be great.
17 MR. SCHMIDT: -- prefer, I'll just take
18 your questions.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: No. I -- what --
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is it a sinkhole?
21 MR. SCHMIDT: It's clearly a karst feature.
22 I would --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: A what?
24 MR. SCHMIDT: -- say in a summary, it's a
25 sinkho-- it originated as a sinkhole, it is no
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1 longer mature, we have no data to suggest it's
2 active.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Let me ask you
4 this. I took notes.
5 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Will you explain karst
7 activity, so I can understand what that means.
8 MR. SCHMIDT: Yes. Karst is a -- is a land
9 form type which results from a type of rock in
10 the subsurface that has pores -- has
11 pore spaces.
12 In Florida, for example, limestone.
13 Limestone dissolves with groundwater that is
14 slightly acidic. As it dissolves, it creates
15 voids in the rock.
16 If those voids are near the surface, you
17 will have material in the soils, and it'll fall
18 into it.
19 Those voids, if they're near the surface,
20 and the groundwater pressure is high, it may
21 allow water to come out in the form of a
22 spring.
23 If the water -- if the water -- groundwater
24 is low, it may let water go in in the form of a
25 sink, a cascade.
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1 You may have submerged rivers, you may have
2 lowered ground that is like a prairie, or you
3 have different shapes of sinkholes.
4 So it's a result of ground having voids in
5 it accepting material from the surface.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Do you think this is a
7 major fracture system?
8 MR. SCHMIDT: No.
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
10 MR. SCHMIDT: The --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: Why?
12 MR. SCHMIDT: -- the report that he
13 described was -- was mapping what is called
14 surface lineaments.
15 And that helps geologists and
16 hydrogeologists locate features in the surface
17 of the earth that may assist in groundwater
18 mapping, whether it be recharge, or discharge,
19 or contaminate migration, or whatever.
20 There were surface lineaments maps on
21 various topographic maps and aerial
22 photographs. And that's the -- that's the
23 database that he was referring to.
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: Do you think -- I mean,
25 and my biggest concern about this, and I -- do
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1 you think there's rapid movement that will
2 impede water flow of -- that -- from the pond
3 so that it -- we won't have the opportunity to
4 stop the contaminants.
5 I mean, that seems to be the -- their
6 biggest concern.
7 MR. SCHMIDT: Yes. And I -- and I think
8 that's a -- a fair concern. That's the first
9 thing you look at when you look at a feature
10 that is a closed depression that would be
11 accepting water into the earth, as opposed to
12 surface drainage off. And that is what gives
13 you the definition of a sinkhole feature.
14 Clearly we have that type of feature in
15 this area.
16 However, what you have to do is, we look at
17 the big picture. And what I did in reviewing
18 the data with my staff and myself, reviewing
19 the topographic maps and the -- the data and
20 the interpretations from the consultants, the
21 geotechnical engineers, and the geologists, was
22 look at the subsurface quarry and cutting
23 information also.
24 That area of Tallahassee, that area of
25 Leon County has many, many features analogous
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1 to that one throughout the area. There are
2 many structures, there are many roads in these
3 other features that have existed for many, many
4 decades. I would -- I would be so bold as to
5 say, prior to a century ago or more.
6 So the point is that the feature itself
7 originated as a karst feature as an early
8 sinkhole. That's how it was formed.
9 Has there been any -- any action in -- on
10 the sinkhole accepting sediments in a
11 catastrophic way or a slowed seepage way in the
12 last many decades?
13 We have no evidence of that in any of the
14 features in the area. One -- one intuitive
15 observation you could make is we have the 40 or
16 50 feet of clay sands above the lime rock,
17 which what's called the Hawthorn formation,
18 which is clay sands and sandy clays.
19 As the geotechnical engineer tested and
20 said it was -- it was low in permeability,
21 well, the intuitive evidence of that is the
22 feature is quite typically wet. There's water.
23 It's a -- it's a pond. The topographic map, a
24 lot of the aerial photos show water standing.
25 Water will stand if it's not seeping through.
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: Got you.
2 MR. SCHMIDT: If it's going through, that
3 might be suggested as a -- high levels of
4 permeability and seepage, it won't be sitting
5 at the surface. There's a significant
6 thickness of low permeability sands there.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I guess the reason I'm
8 asking all this, I don't think the Cabinet
9 should be a forum for us to decide by listening
10 to experts if it's a sinkhole, or if it's not a
11 sinkhole. That's not our expertise. That
12 seems to be -- should be decided by the experts
13 and at the local level.
14 My only concern is at this point, because
15 it's been brought up by the residents, that I
16 don't want to make a decision -- or be a part
17 of a decision because overall I like the
18 project, but I don't want to contribute to
19 something that is not going to adequately
20 filter these contaminants.
21 If, indeed, it -- I mean, is there a system
22 that will be in place that we can -- obviously
23 your argument that the water is standing seems
24 like that it isn't -- you know, there's not
25 rapid whatever.
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1 MR. SCHMIDT: Infiltration into the ground.
2 SECRETARY HARRIS: Infiltration.
3 Thank you.
4 MR. SCHMIDT: Okay.
5 SECRETARY HARRIS: New word. All new
6 concepts.
7 But, you know, I just -- I just think that
8 we have to be serious about this. And I don't
9 want to make a decision that's going to in any
10 way be harmful to their environment.
11 And -- and so I just wanted to have that
12 clarified. I wish we could come to some
13 agreement with the geologists.
14 But that -- those are all my questions.
15 MR. SCHMIDT: Un-- unfortunately, we
16 geologists can do good work, but we don't have
17 x-ray eyes, so we have to make interpretations
18 from known data points. Therefore, there's
19 always opportunity for disagreement.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
22 MR. SCHMIDT: Thank you.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
24 Who's next, Kirby?
25 MR. GREEN: Mayor Maddox.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
2 MR. MADDOX: Thank you, Governor.
3 Thank you very much, Trustees.
4 I just want to give a brief presentation.
5 We also -- I also have Commissioner
6 Steve Meisburg and John Paul Bailey here
7 present today to answer questions. And you'll
8 hear from three citizens immediately following
9 my statements.
10 Building a road is a difficult decision,
11 especially difficult decision if you are as
12 environmentally sensitive as the City of
13 Tallahassee is. We are known throughout the
14 state for having very stringent environmental
15 standards. And that is evidenced by our canopy
16 roads and our pristine lakes that exist today.
17 It is such a tough decision that the City
18 of Tallahassee has not built a major connector
19 road in over 25 years.
20 Well, I don't want to talk about my age,
21 but I'm thirty-two. So we probably haven't
22 built a major connector road since I've been
23 born.
24 I found a memo dating back to when I was
25 ten that said it was crucial that we extend
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1 Blair Stone Road. We have agonized over this
2 decision, and we have gone to the public and
3 asked them what they thought on it.
4 The project was included in the 1989 local
5 option one cent sales tax referendum which
6 Leon County voters passed by 61 percent.
7 In 1994, the City of Tallahassee did a
8 resident opinion survey, of which 71 percent of
9 those that had an opinion on the project
10 favored Blair Stone Road.
11 After ten months of a corridor study, a
12 community advisory committee, composed of
13 representatives of neighborhoods along the
14 corridor and other impacted and interested
15 parties, recommended the currently designed
16 route to the City Commission.
17 The route skirted adjacent neighborhoods
18 without splitting any along the route. During
19 the corridor study for the project, 17 meetings
20 were held to obtain citizen input, 39 were held
21 during the design phase, a total of 56 meetings
22 for citizen input on the project.
23 Because of that, and because of us
24 acquiescing to what the neighbors wanted, what
25 all the interested parties wanted, the cost of
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1 the roadway soared. And we're willing to pay
2 that price because we want a road system that
3 is environmentally friendly, that is
4 aesthetically pleasing, and that it helps the
5 wildlife and the neighborhoods in the area.
6 So we come to the end of this tough
7 decision that we've agonized on in local
8 government for a long time, and we're here
9 before you today.
10 And I think Secretary Harris hit the nail
11 on the head when she said that she doesn't feel
12 comfortable as a member of the Cabinet talking
13 about sinkholes and -- and whether or not a
14 local road decision was made correctly.
15 I think that the elected officials did
16 their very best to make the best decision that
17 could be made in this case, and we have. And
18 what is before you today is, in effect, a land
19 swap that I think on its face merits your
20 support, and I would urge you to support it.
21 I think Blair Stone Road, as far as the
22 merits of the road, will be a good roadway for
23 our citizens. It is overwhelmingly supported
24 by our community; it'll serve at large the
25 community as a whole; will open up concurrency
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1 for areas that we need concurrency in,
2 especially on the south side; and will be a
3 very good roadway project whose time has
4 certainly come and cannot take any further
5 delays.
6 With that, I'm going to introduce three
7 citizens to speak briefly, the first of which
8 is Henree Martin. She is the Chair-Elect of
9 the Tallahassee-Leon County Chamber of
10 Commerce, member of the EECC Committee that
11 developed the Blueprint 2000 and Beyond Plan,
12 and owner of Henree Martin Realty, resident of
13 Tallahassee for many years.
14 She'll be followed by Jack Buford, who is
15 president of Tallahassee Land Company, a member
16 of the City Commission's Community Advisory
17 Committee who picked the routing of
18 Blair Stone, and attended almost every meeting
19 over the ten months of the committee's review,
20 a lifelong resident of Tallahassee.
21 And finally Carrol Dadisman, a retired
22 publisher emeritus of the Tallahassee Democrat.
23 Carrol followed the project closely while the
24 publisher of the Democrat, and since then has
25 written several columns analyzing and
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1 supporting the -- the project.
2 After we hear from them briefly, we'll have
3 our experts. If you have any questions
4 whatsoever, we'll be glad to answer them.
5 Ms. Martin.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning.
7 MS. MARTIN: Good morning, Governor, and
8 Cabinet. I'm very pleased to be here today.
9 I would like to just add to what our Mayor
10 has said. It's time for us to get -- move
11 along with this road and get it built. A
12 comment was made a few minutes ago that there
13 was no need to rush.
14 In 1989, the citizens of Leon County were
15 willing to step up to the ballot box and agree
16 to add one penny to all the sales tax collected
17 in our community. And the reason for that was
18 to build roads.
19 It is now 2000. We have failed to do what
20 the citizens asked us to do by casting that
21 vote, because we have not built the roads.
22 Why have we not built some of those roads?
23 Because there will always be people who are
24 concerned about how a road is going to be
25 built.
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1 As the Chair-Elect of the Chamber of
2 Commerce, we are faced with trying to add jobs
3 to our community, to help the economic
4 stability of our community. And yet we have a
5 reputation of being one of the communities in
6 this country that is the slowest to get
7 progress in place.
8 Eleven years, it's time for Blair Stone
9 Road to be built.
10 I have questioned our officials at the
11 City, and I know they have worked hard with
12 DEP. I am convinced that this is a safe
13 alignment of this road. And I am convinced
14 that the citizens of Leon County would ask you
15 today to cast a vote in the affirmative to do
16 the land swap so that they can see their
17 dollars that have been collected spent on this
18 roadway.
19 I appreciate your time.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
21 MR. BUFORD: Good morning still,
22 Governor --
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Good morning still.
24 MR. BUFORD: -- members of the Cabinet.
25 I'm Jack Buford. I'm a residential developer
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1 here in Tallahassee. I've lived in Tallahassee
2 all of my life.
3 I at one point served two terms on the
4 local Tallahassee Leon County Planning
5 Commission; I served on the Apalachee Regional
6 Planning Commission for one term; served
7 eight years on the State Environmental
8 Regulation Commission; and more recently, about
9 four years ago, I served for not ten months,
10 but 18 months on a citizens committee that
11 reviewed the proposed alignment of
12 Blair Stone Road.
13 It wasn't our task to review whether or
14 not -- or to make a recommendation as to
15 whether or not this road should be built. It
16 was our task to recommend where that road
17 should go.
18 But in the process, repeatedly, the -- the
19 local planning department and -- and the City's
20 consultants were asked, why are we building
21 this road, is this road necessary?
22 And I -- I can assure you that -- that with
23 an open mind, what we found, that this road is
24 absolutely essential, is an essential part of
25 our -- our transportation system, and is very
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1 badly needed.
2 In -- in -- whether you're siting
3 power lines or -- or new schools or -- or new
4 roads, there -- there are always an -- an
5 element in the community that -- that's going
6 to have concern, and -- and perhaps objection.
7 And the process is good, it -- it makes us look
8 at all of the -- all of the things that we
9 should look at before these decisions are made.
10 But this is a road that's badly needed,
11 it's well located, it's sensitive to the
12 environment, it's well designed. And as a
13 citizen of this community, I'd ask that you
14 support this -- the City's request.
15 Thank you very much.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
17 MR. DADISMAN: Good morning, Governor, and
18 Cabinet.
19 My name is Carrol Dadisman.
20 Thank you for the opportunity to come and
21 speak as a private citizen of Tallahassee and
22 Leon County.
23 I think most of the points have been made.
24 I would just like to reenforce that I and the
25 overwhelming majority of people in this
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1 community would like to see this road built.
2 You've heard the figures from the Mayor,
3 from the surveys, and other surveys have been
4 made. I don't think there's ever been any
5 indication that a majority is opposed to this
6 road.
7 On the other hand, an overwhelming majority
8 is in favor of the road.
9 I had an office that overlooked
10 Magnolia Drive for 16 years, and I had an
11 opportunity to see every afternoon the
12 overcrowded conditions of Magnolia, which is
13 one of the roads that would be relieved by this
14 new north-south corridor.
15 And I can tell you that not only was the
16 overcrowded conditions on Magnolia an
17 inconvenience, but also a hazard to those
18 drivers.
19 So let me just say that many of us in the
20 community, I think, arguably an overwhelming
21 majority, want to see this road built.
22 So we hope that you will sell the land to
23 the City.
24 Thank you very much.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 Any questions?
2 Is there a motion?
3 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
6 All in favor, say aye.
7 THE CABINET: Aye.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
9 It passed.
10 MR. MADDOX: Thank you.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you, Mayor.
12 MR. GREEN: Governor, if we could go to
13 Item 19.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes. Please.
15 I'm sorry. I was trying to identify the
16 group of people that are in the middle to go
17 first, and we messed up.
18 So Item 19 is the Suwannee County prison
19 deal. And you're here.
20 Welcome.
21 MR. GREEN: Item 19 is an option agreement
22 to acquire 316.75 acres for the Department of
23 Corrections in Suwannee County.
24 First I'd like to represent -- introduce
25 Representative Stansel who has some comments,
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1 and I think he wants to introduce the
2 County Commission.
3 MR. STANSEL: Good morning, Governor, and
4 Cabinet.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Representative Stansel, how
6 are you doing?
7 MR. STANSEL: It's always good to be in
8 Tallahassee, and it's always rewarding to be in
9 the Capitol.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Particularly when the
11 session -- Legislature is not in session.
12 MR. STANSEL: That's true.
13 I come this morning in support of DEP's
14 decision, and also in support of the issue.
15 (Treasurer Nelson exited the room.)
16 MR. STANSEL: Obvious reasons.
17 First of all, I've supported these -- some
18 of DEP's decisions and positions on some other
19 issues that was controversial. But I believe
20 they make their decisions based on good
21 science; facts; and what I believe, and a lot
22 is common sense.
23 Probably many of you doesn't know it, but
24 many years ago -- for many years, I was in the
25 crop dusting business in north Florida. And
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1 most of the farmers -- or a pile of the farmers
2 that I flew for today are employed at
3 correction facilities.
4 They just absolutely could not remain on
5 their land. They have disposed of their land.
6 Most of -- they do retain their homes. They
7 have decent jobs, they -- they've supported
8 their families. And it's been some good
9 benefits to our community.
10 In District 11, I represent seven
11 institutions, six of them is run by the State,
12 and one of them is run by a private
13 corporation.
14 This would be the eighth facility. So
15 obviously it has a tremendous impact on -- on
16 our district. There's two real reasons: One
17 is jobs that I've spoke a little of.
18 The second is the ancillary services that's
19 provided by a prison. One -- number one is
20 vending. Doing business with our local --
21 local vendors, the economy, we need that.
22 Second of all is the work crews that assist
23 our small counties. I --
24 (Governor Bush exited the room.)
25 MR. STANSEL: -- represent the smallest
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1 county in the state, too, by the way,
2 Lafayette. And they are -- they are just
3 drastically dependent.
4 And they recently received a letter that
5 the work crews were going to be cut back. And
6 for what reason, I absolutely don't know yet,
7 but we probably will know in the future.
8 And probably the third reason is the
9 support jobs that -- that -- that the
10 correction facilities provide, jobs in --
11 finance jobs in purchasing, jobs in the
12 administration facilities.
13 Right now, there's obviously some turmoil
14 in Corrections in our area, some concern about
15 people's -- about people's jobs. And if
16 there's not enough jobs in our area, maybe this
17 facility will -- will -- will enhance the job
18 market.
19 We're continually turning out new -- new --
20 new groups of people who need jobs. We're
21 growing as -- obviously, as you know. There's
22 people moving -- we say from south Florida to
23 north Florida -- moving in our area that needs
24 jobs. And this is a major employer in
25 District 11.
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1 And I certainly ask -- encourage you to
2 look favorable upon it.
3 We want to keep a lot of these jobs in our
4 communities, too. You know, we have technology
5 today that's available that can leave these
6 jobs -- even though we are going to some
7 centralized positions on some things, we can
8 leave these jobs in our rural communities.
9 When we lose 25 or 30 jobs in our community,
10 it's a major impact.
11 And most of these jobs that's being
12 considered to be losses now are working moms
13 who just absolutely can't afford to lose their
14 job.
15 So for these reasons, I encourage you to
16 support the issue, and enter into this
17 partnership with Suwannee County. And let's
18 move forward and -- and be progressive in
19 north Florida.
20 If there's any questions, I'd certainly be
21 glad to answer some.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: Are there any questions
23 for the Representative?
24 MR. STANSEL: Okay.
25 At this time, if I could, I'd like to
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1 introduce the County Commissioners that -- that
2 is here: Mr. Don Odom, Mr. Jerry Scott, Mr. --
3 Mr. Robert Taylor, and Mr. -- Doug Udell, and
4 Mr. Barry Baker. We have all five of the
5 Suwannee County Commissioners here today.
6 We also have the County Coordinator,
7 Mr. Ed Harvey. And we have quite a group of --
8 group of citizens here to support the issue
9 also.
10 (Governor Bush entered the room.)
11 MR. STANSEL: Is -- if there's anyone else
12 that wants to speak?
13 MR. GREEN: Yeah.
14 MR. STANSEL: Okay. Fine.
15 Thank y'all.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
17 MR. GREEN: The next speaker is -- is
18 Secretary Moore.
19 MR. MOORE: Good morning.
20 Sound like y'all are real busy today.
21 I think there's probably a question as to
22 why the agency was looking at acquiring
23 additional lands.
24 And I think there's a question that -- in
25 our planning a five-year plan, are we using
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1 available State lands that we have.
2 And -- and I wanted to inform the -- the
3 Cabinet that there's about ten sites that are
4 in the five-year plan and in various stages of
5 either dirt work, construction, or they're in
6 the five-year plan to obtain.
7 One thing that -- with the Criminal Justice
8 Estimating Conference on our numbers, it's
9 estimated that we will need about 11,000 beds
10 in the next five years.
11 Eventually we will need this site. We need
12 it now to -- to get it in the planning stage.
13 And it's a good site. The -- there's been a
14 long history of work with Suwannee County since
15 the early '90s in this process.
16 And so it is -- it is needed in additional
17 capacity as our population and -- and our
18 prison systems do grow.
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have another question.
20 I have --
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- a question.
23 Thank you.
24 I had -- just want to confirm this. I'm
25 not sure if it's correct or not.
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1 But the Little -- Little River tract that's
2 on the districts, there's -- on the Florida
3 Forever Potential Acquisition Products --
4 Projects, there's a Middle Suwannee -- it says
5 Suwannee County Little River.
6 Is -- is this tract part of that -- in the
7 Florida Forever Act, do you --
8 MR. MOORE: I'm going to --
9 SECRETARY HARRIS: -- know?
10 MR. MOORE: -- have to --
11 SECRETARY HARRIS: I -- because I haven't
12 been able to get a confirmation --
13 MR. MOORE: It is not.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Let Kirby answer that.
15 MR. MOORE: No, ma'am.
16 SECRETARY HARRIS: That's -- I'm sorry.
17 We'll ask --
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Moore's not in
19 charge of Florida Forever yet.
20 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Let Kirby answer
21 that.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Kirby, can you answer the
23 question?
24 MR. GREEN: The answer is, no, it's not.
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay. Thanks.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
2 Who's next to speak, Kirby?
3 MR. GREEN: Svenn Lindskold.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, back.
5 MR. LINDSKOLD: Thank you, Governor. It's
6 a pleasure to be here.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: You brought more friends
8 this time.
9 MR. LINDSKOLD: Well, some of -- some of
10 each.
11 I'll keep my remarks short, if I can.
12 We're not here to oppose a prison, or to
13 make any determination about the need for jobs
14 in Suwannee County. This also is not an issue
15 involving a private party seeking development
16 rights. This is a public project.
17 It's an opportunity for the State to set an
18 example as to where major installations should
19 be sited.
20 I have submitted quite a bit of material to
21 the file. You have maps and photos of the site
22 and of the adjoining area. You have received
23 letters from organizations such as the Audubon,
24 Sierra Club, Clean Water Network, the
25 Center for Wetlands, the University of Florida.
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1 This particular site may not be within the
2 Middle Suwannee Little River acquisition area,
3 but it is adjoining it. And it is north and
4 flowing to that site, and it is --
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: How close -- when you say
6 "adjoining," how close would that be?
7 MR. LINDSKOLD: I can't tell you in -- in
8 feet. It's -- it's probably within a couple of
9 miles. Mile or two. And it's all entire wet
10 system.
11 And also the Suwannee County Comprehensive
12 Plan has in it the designation of much of this
13 area by the North Central Florida Regional
14 Planning Council as an environmentally
15 sensitive area.
16 This site, in other words, sits at the
17 center of a system. Flowing north from this
18 site is the Rocky Creek, which flows
19 approximately 8 miles to join the
20 Suwannee River.
21 Heading south from this site is a system of
22 wetlands connecting to Crab Creek. Crab Creek
23 ultimately connects to Little River; and then
24 Little River flows into this area of concern;
25 ultimately goes underground as we move down
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1 through Suwannee County; and then ultimately
2 the Little River is described as appearing as
3 Little River Spring, which now again is on the
4 Suwannee River to the south, an area that is a
5 County park.
6 So that's why I say it's the center of a
7 system. We feel that there's been inadequate
8 review of this project because what -- what the
9 regulations require is a valuation of whether
10 stormwater can be captured, detained, and then
11 appropriately released from this land.
12 That is really not the issue, the central
13 location to the system is the issue.
14 There are options. We don't have to spend
15 major sums on doing extremely extensive
16 engineering, changing elevations, developing
17 berms and retention ponds. That money might be
18 better spent in acquiring an appropriate site
19 within Suwannee County.
20 This site is perched in a northeast section
21 of the County, which is wet. It is
22 characterized -- if you look at any of the
23 maps, characterized by lakes, creeks, the
24 formation of rivers, an extensive system of
25 wetlands, and it has been passed over from the
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1 beginning for development. That is why it is a
2 remote site. It's not a developable -- a very
3 readily developable site.
4 Furthermore, not only do we have the money
5 that could be saved from all this site
6 preparation work, there is at least one private
7 buyer who is out there ready to acquire this
8 property, place a conservation easement over
9 it, and let the State and the County move in a
10 slow, deliberate way to determine an
11 appropriate place to locate this project.
12 And that's what I recommend, that there are
13 years in the plans of Corrections before this
14 project should be begin -- begun, and those
15 years can be used to do some careful planning,
16 and the location of an appropriate site.
17 Thank you.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
19 MR. LINDSKOLD: Surely.
20 MR. GREEN: Ron Moss.
21 MR. MOSS: Good afternoon, Governor,
22 members of the Cabinet.
23 Just have a couple of points today relative
24 to the -- the total issue.
25 First off, I certainly am not against
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1 building a prison in Suwannee County. And I --
2 I -- I understand the Commissioners and the
3 County officials' effort to -- to -- to get
4 jobs in the -- in the area of the community.
5 I'm -- I'm certainly not against that.
6 But I am against placing -- placing this
7 facility on the site that -- in -- in question.
8 I just feel that there's more appropriate
9 sites, number one; and, number two, I have been
10 a part of engineering a plan that could put
11 this property in private hands, and put an
12 easement over it, a conservative guardianship,
13 if you will, over the property, and -- and I
14 would be happy to -- to accept the challenge of
15 finding another appropriate site.
16 In fact, I think -- I think one thing,
17 if -- if anything is on our side at this
18 particular point, it's time, based on the fact
19 that we have at this point adequate facilities,
20 prison facilities, realizing, of course, that's
21 an industry that has growth.
22 But we do have -- we do have some time,
23 and -- and I certainly would -- would -- would
24 accept being a part of a plan that would divert
25 this site, divert this project to -- to a
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1 totally different site within Suwannee County.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for coming back.
3 MR. MOSS: Thank you.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Who else is going to speak,
5 Kirby?
6 MR. GREEN: David Fisk with the Suwannee
7 River Water Management District.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: We missed you last time.
9 MR. FISK: Yes, sir.
10 Apologize for not being here.
11 My name is Dave Fisk. I'm the Assistant
12 Director at the Suwannee District.
13 We did issue a permit for this facility in
14 1997. And I understand some of the questions
15 at your last meeting involved some of the
16 issues around wetlands protection on the site.
17 Just in summary, it's a little bit less
18 than 320 acres. It's about 25 percent west --
19 wetlands, about 75 percent developable uplands,
20 give or take.
21 The permit that our agency issued in
22 consultation with Department of Corrections
23 provides for no wetland impacts. There is
24 avoidance of all impact to the wetlands. The
25 wetlands were determined by a joint
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1 jurisdictional boundary between my agency and
2 the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. There is no
3 dispute of the wetland boundaries.
4 I'll be happy to answer any other questions
5 you might have.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
7 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
8 I'm very supportive of a prison in
9 Suwannee County, and I'm very supportive of the
10 economic development. And I think that's real
11 important, and they should get to have a
12 prison.
13 My only concern are some of the issues that
14 were addressed about the location. One has
15 been addressed that it's not in the potential
16 acquisition list for Florida Forever. That was
17 very important. That was one of the issues.
18 The second issue is this, but I don't -- is
19 an engineering perspective. I've been told
20 that the cost to build this -- this prison are
21 going to be excessive, because -- but you have
22 to explain this to me -- because there's a
23 hardpan layer 6 to 8 inches deep.
24 It's a geological question -- below the
25 soil --
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: You are a resident expert
2 now on geology.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: And nets. And nets.
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Secretary of
5 Geology.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: We have a Secretary of
7 Barbecue.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Lord.
9 Onward.
10 SECRETARY HARRIS: Okay.
11 So -- that's supposed to make it more
12 expensive than would be another site.
13 So I just want an explanation so that we
14 can feel comfortable in doing this. If --
15 you've assured us it's not going to impact the
16 wetlands, because this is supposed to be a wet
17 site.
18 And that -- if that's certainly true,
19 then -- then I feel comfortable with that, it's
20 not in the Florida Forever.
21 But I am concerned about the expenses if --
22 if this is really the proper site due to this
23 6- to 8-inch hardpan layer.
24 Will you tell us what that is?
25 MR. FISK: This -- this is -- this site is
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1 fairly typical of north Florida pine flatwoods.
2 There is a fairly high water table, as is just
3 fairly standard for pine flatwoods in -- in
4 north Florida.
5 There are trade-offs in the development
6 scenario. In -- in the engineering side in a
7 pine flatwood, high water table environment
8 like this, there may be some additional
9 engineering, some -- some custom design work
10 that go into the retention and detention
11 facilities.
12 In other areas of the state, you've talked
13 about a karst area earlier, your design issues
14 are put into advanced water quality treatment.
15 My judgment call in looking at these kind
16 of projects in our 15-county region is this
17 facility would be no more expensive to develop
18 than any other development in a pine flatwoods
19 environment.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: And you don't have any
21 concerns that Mr. Lindskold expressed
22 concerning the industrial pollution, or -- or
23 some of these other issues.
24 You think that they're going to be
25 adequately addressed. It's not going to affect
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1 wetlands.
2 MR. FISK: No, ma'am. This facility meets
3 or exceeds all of our permitting criteria,
4 which are identical to the other parts of the
5 state.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 19.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
10 Anybody else want to speak?
11 MR. GREEN: Commissioner Doug Udell wants
12 to finish up.
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You for it or
14 against it?
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Are you for it, or against
16 it?
17 MR. UDELL: I'm 100 percent plus for it,
18 sir.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Good. It's
21 moving.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: I think --
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Don't slow it
24 down.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I don't -- you're --
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1 you're in that vulnerable place now where if
2 you speak, you might --
3 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- hurt it more
4 than help it.
5 MR. UDELL: I might what?
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Hurt it more than
7 help it.
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Make it -- make it
9 quick.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Make it quick.
11 MR. UDELL: I'll be very brief. Extremely
12 brief, I promise you.
13 I don't want to -- I don't want you guys to
14 have a bad feeling about this.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, that's the point.
16 MR. UDELL: I won't, I promise you.
17 I was up here a week ago, and I told
18 your -- your Aides all about this thing
19 Mr. Lindskold and Mr. Moss is talking about.
20 And I gave them the facts.
21 And the folks in Suwannee County sent me
22 again today to tell y'all the truth. So I'll
23 tell you the truth again.
24 The issues that Mr. Lindskold brought up
25 about the Rocky Creek, these headwaters,
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1 Little River Springs. First of all, Little
2 River Springs is 25 miles away. He don't know
3 how the water gets there, and I don't either.
4 No scuba diver knows either. And I don't want
5 to even find out myself, because I'm not going
6 to go underground 25 miles.
7 This here Rocky Creek he talked about, my
8 little boy the Sunday before last threw a rock
9 across. He's only six years old. It's a wide
10 little thing, narrow thing.
11 And he waded across it, didn't even get his
12 shorts wet. Just his -- it's dry. These
13 headwaters Mr. Lindskold talk about, I gave
14 some of the old-timers a copy of your minutes
15 of your first Cabinet meeting.
16 And they asked me, said, son, said,
17 where -- where is this place to build a prison?
18 I said, it's down there on Highway 90.
19 Said, must be moved to Everglades and
20 Okefenokee Swamp, because that place, dry.
21 So I went out there myself and looked. You
22 got some little hog wallows about half big as
23 this room here, a few cypress trees in it. The
24 frogs done moved, sir, they're gone it's so
25 dry.
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1 The rice won't even grow out there. It's
2 just dry.
3 The -- out of this -- this tract of land,
4 out of 16 sites the County looked at, the
5 highest and best use of this site is a prison.
6 And this prison they have proposed will not
7 affect these purported wetlands at all the way
8 it's designed.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
10 Thank you very much.
11 MR. UDELL: Do the right thing for us,
12 please, sir.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right, sir.
14 Any other --
15 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: If you keep --
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- discussion?
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: -- talking, we're
18 going to --
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: All in favor of the motion,
20 say aye.
21 THE CABINET: Aye.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed?
23 Motion passes.
24 MR. GREEN: Item 5.
25 (Applause.)
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all.
2 MR. GREEN: Item 5 is application for
3 authorization for a -- a 20-year sovereign
4 submerged land lease, placing fill on sovereign
5 submerged lands, and an after-the-fact
6 authorization on two previous --
7 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
8 MR. GREEN: -- parcels.
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 6 --
13 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to defer.
14 MR. GREEN: -- is deferral.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded to
17 defer.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 7, submittal of the
20 Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary's
21 Annual --
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Motion.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to accept.
24 MR. GREEN: -- report.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Motion and second.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. GREEN: Item 8 is conceptual approval
4 of a public-private partnership for utilization
5 of approximately 500 acres of the Cross Florida
6 Greenway for recreational activities, and
7 waiver of competitive bid requirements.
8 We have some speakers, Governor.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right.
10 Representative Argenziano.
11 Is she here yet?
12 Not here?
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: I don't see the
14 Representative.
15 MR. GREEN: Okay. Steve Rich.
16 Larry Rhodes.
17 Steve Rich?
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Somebody better
19 get something moving here.
20 MR. GREEN: Come on.
21 MR. RICH: Good afternoon, Governor Bush,
22 and Cabinet members.
23 My name is Steven Rich. I am
24 Vice President of Rapid Pursuits, Incorporated.
25 We are the entity that is proposing this
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1 particular project.
2 This is a shining example of a
3 public-private partnership in which everybody
4 would benefit. We think we have found the
5 perfect place to build this facility, and the
6 perfect partner to do it with, the Greenways
7 and Trails.
8 What we have here is a two-phase park. The
9 first phase -- it's a white water kyacking
10 and -- and rafting venue. The first phase, the
11 smaller phase, would be a competition kyacking
12 course that would not only be used just for
13 competitions, but would be designed
14 specifically so that it could host
15 international and national competitions.
16 The second phase would be a rafting phase
17 which would be much longer. It would be
18 between two-and-a-half and 3 miles long, that
19 would provide the necessary length and time for
20 the -- the amusement of the -- the clients.
21 What we basically have here also in regard
22 to financing is, because it is a two-phased
23 project, we do not need the entire financing
24 all at one time up-front.
25 The first phase is only about a 10 million
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1 dollar phase. We basically are in a little bit
2 of a quandary in that to get -- we have a lot
3 of people that have approached us and are
4 interested in financing this.
5 But they're basically saying, this is a
6 great idea, it's wonderful, we'd really like
7 to, you know, help you out. Come back to us
8 when you've got something a little bit more
9 concrete, you've got proof that you have a
10 place to build this, and you have a little more
11 engineering and permitting under your belt.
12 The team that we have put together is
13 probably one of the best teams I've seen in
14 quite a while to put this project together.
15 Myself, I have a lot of environmental
16 background.
17 I was the biologist for the Orlando
18 International Airport for about five years with
19 input in permitting, planned development,
20 construction, and construction oversight with
21 multimillion dollar projects, some of which
22 were -- the 25-year build-out of the -- airport
23 was a 1.5 billion dollar expansion project.
24 The architects that we have chosen,
25 John Anderson and the McLaughin/Water Group,
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1 have an outstanding resume as well.
2 They were the ones that actually designed
3 and created the 1996 Olympic white water course
4 in the Ocoee River in Tennessee.
5 They also have a -- one in Dickerson,
6 Maryland, that is an Olympic class facility
7 that's up and running.
8 They have smaller facilities in about nine
9 or ten other states. They have international
10 consulting experience in the realm of these
11 white water parks. It's basically their area
12 of expertise.
13 We also have a wastewater treatment
14 facility company, Utilities, Inc., of Florida,
15 which is the largest private utility company in
16 the United States. They're in 16 states, and
17 have 53 facilities just in the state of Florida
18 alone.
19 They are working very closely with us to
20 come up with some new, innovative, and
21 environmental things that might provide some
22 additional environmental lift to the area,
23 instead of a detriment.
24 The legal counsel that we have chosen is an
25 interesting, wide, and varied variety of
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1 different counsels. The one in particular, my
2 sister, is the -- the -- is senior deputy --
3 was the senior deputy legal counsel for Amtrak,
4 and spent most of her time as the acting
5 general counsel.
6 She retired last year and is an enthusiast
7 of this project. And her area of special --
8 expertise is contracts, specialties in
9 international deals, multibillion dollar
10 international deals for Amtrak.
11 Then we have Larry Rhodes, my partner,
12 whose area of expertise is, he is a -- he owns
13 a kyack shop, and -- an up and running kyack
14 shop, and is also an enthusiast, like myself,
15 of many years.
16 What we would like -- what we are proposing
17 is that we will return in one year with a firm
18 commitment with the financing for Phase I. And
19 at that point in time, we will also have an
20 update available with the engineering and the
21 permitting which is necessary to concrete and
22 cement the -- the financing -- the comfort
23 level of the finance people to do this.
24 We do not want just anybody's money. We
25 want somebody that thinks the way we think, and
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1 we want to be picky. We were picky about
2 choosing the site, and we were picky about
3 choosing our partner.
4 And I think we've done a wonderful job, and
5 I think it's going to be a wonderful thing for
6 the state and the local residents.
7 We are not asking for any money at any time
8 from the State. This is going to be entirely
9 privately funded, not only the construction of
10 it, but the operation and maintenance of it as
11 well.
12 At -- at this point in time, I would like
13 for my partner, Larry Rhodes, to come up.
14 Thank you very much.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
16 MR. RHODES: Good afternoon, Governor, and
17 Cabinet.
18 My name is Larry Rhodes. As Steve
19 mentioned, I own a kyack shop actually in
20 Casselberry, Florida, just outside of Orlando.
21 I'm a native Floridian, born in Palm Beach,
22 raised in the Stuart area. I've been over in
23 the Orlando area for about 18 years now.
24 (Treasurer Nelson entered the room.)
25 MR. RHODES: My -- my kyack shop started
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1 very small. I now sell more kyacks than anyone
2 in central Florida. Very proud of that. We
3 have a nice shop there.
4 Now, the whole concept of a white water
5 park in Florida, I think most people would
6 agree, it's kind of like the Jamaica bobsled
7 team. There's no white water in Florida, just
8 like there's no snow in Jamaica.
9 We don't have white water. What we do have
10 is we have the world's best year-round climate.
11 And the white water areas every else (sic) in
12 the country, they shut down after about three
13 or four months' worth of use. That's all you
14 can use them during the year. And we want
15 something that's year-round.
16 Besides that, it'll be the largest, the
17 biggest -- this park actually has to be the
18 biggest, most spectacular, and safest
19 white water park in the world. The reason for
20 that is it's got to be that to be a commercial
21 success.
22 From day one, that's where we're after --
23 what we were after.
24 Now, I love kyacking, I love white water
25 rafting, it'd be nice to have this here. But
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1 on the other hand, this is going to be a
2 commercial success. It has to be a commercial
3 success. That's why we're so confident in it.
4 The reasons being is because it will be the
5 best and the biggest man-made white water park
6 in the country. And again also the safest. A
7 place where people can start out and learn
8 kyacking, right here and in a very safe venue.
9 It's going to offer a lot of different venues.
10 Now, as Steve mentioned, in keeping in the
11 concept of public-private partnership, we never
12 entertained the thought of asking the State for
13 money. I mean, we're absolutely confident that
14 we can get the financing. We have several
15 choices. We've already generated a huge
16 interest in people that want to invest in the
17 park.
18 And we realize if the State supplies the
19 land and the money, that's not a partnership.
20 You guys are doing it all. We want to be
21 partners. We want to be good partners.
22 Now, the problem is, this concept should
23 have begun five years ago. We've got a
24 time line here that is real tough. It's very
25 short.
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1 And that is, if this park is to be a
2 legitimate possibility to attract the 2012
3 Olympics, time's a wasting. 2012 Olympic
4 committee is, as stated by the letter, they're
5 considering our site, among others. But this
6 is going to be very important, and that is to
7 attract the Olympics.
8 Also hosting different championships. And
9 also if this course -- we do want to have an
10 Olympic training site. We want to train people
11 for Olympics even before the 2012 Olympics. We
12 need to get this park up and running.
13 Now, in closing, before I introduce
14 Todd Bishop of the Dagger Kyack Corporation, I
15 would like to stress, my partner and I are
16 totally confident that we're the best team for
17 the job, got the best chance of seeing this
18 project through.
19 We have the knowledge -- kind of a unique
20 knowledge -- first of all, being from Florida,
21 we see the things that have happened in our
22 state, the other tourist venues. We're in a
23 little bit of a competition at one end, we're
24 in no competition on the other end. It's a
25 different class of people that'll be using this
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1 park.
2 Combine that with the knowledge that we've
3 gained from our research. We found out things
4 that will not be commercially viable. And we
5 have found the things that will make money, and
6 make real good money at it, and we know the
7 difference between the two. And that's what
8 it's going to have to be. It has to be a
9 success, a commercial success for this to work.
10 And that again is our main thing. We want
11 this a commercial venture. Personally, I think
12 it'd be a real kick that if some day, there
13 would be a Floridian there at the Olympic
14 white water competition. I think that'd be
15 real neat.
16 Again, at this time, I'd like to introduce
17 Todd Bishop of the Dagger Corporation,
18 manufacturers of kyacks.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, sir.
20 MR. BISHOP: Thank you.
21 Good afternoon, Governor Bush and Cabinet.
22 My name's Todd Bishop. I work in the
23 industry. I'm a sales representative for
24 Dagger canoes and kyacks, and also Harmony
25 accessories. We're a smaller company. Our
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1 parent company is Watermark, also known as
2 Perception; Mainstream, and a few other small
3 companies in the industry.
4 It's kind of interesting, the past
5 two years -- or last, the kyacking industry, as
6 a whole, including the canoes also, has pretty
7 much exploded.
8 The five to eight major companies have been
9 bought up by three large corporations, which
10 have, in turn, put money back into it and
11 created a lot of revenue. Right now as it
12 stands, Watermark is one of the largest, if not
13 the largest in the world, producer of canoes
14 and kyacks and accessories out there.
15 We're extremely interested in what Larry
16 and Steve are doing with the park, and their
17 efforts, and eagerly awaiting what's going to
18 happen next.
19 There's a lot of possibilities between us
20 and them from sponsorships on up to actual
21 involvement with the design and -- and interest
22 of the park in the direction it goes in.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
24 MR. BISHOP: Thank you.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
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1 MR. GREEN: Governor, last night we held a
2 meeting in the -- the Citrus, Levy County area
3 to discuss this with -- with the citizens.
4 Debbie Parrish from our staff is here to report
5 on what happened at the meeting last night.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Sure. Bring her up
7 briefly.
8 MS. PARRISH: Very briefly.
9 The -- we had about 100 people attend the
10 public hearing last night. There were people
11 who came to the meeting with their minds up --
12 made up about the project.
13 Some of them were for the project; some of
14 them were, you know, let's hear more about it;
15 and there were many that were concerned with
16 growth management.
17 Many of them moved from Miami,
18 Broward County, Orlando, Tampa, to
19 Sleepy Hollow, and they want it to stay that
20 way.
21 There were people that were -- you know,
22 have been there for generations, who have
23 indicated, well, we like the way it is, too,
24 but we need jobs.
25 And there were some young people who also
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1 testified that said, you know, I've been here
2 for generations, my family's been here, and we
3 want to stay here, and this is an opportunity.
4 There was a mix of support and opposition
5 or concern about growth. Most of the growth
6 concerns had to do with, you know, the impact
7 of visitors, the impact on infrastructure.
8 And we assured them that this was only a
9 conceptual approval, that there were many other
10 hoops that it had to go through, there were
11 many opportunities for public hearing, there'd
12 be DRI process, comp plan amendments, and
13 regulatory permitting.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
15 Any questions?
16 Katherine.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: Not a geological
18 question.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Oh. Oh.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Actually, I have a
21 passion for kyacking. I started in my early
22 teens, so I've always car-- actu-- not in
23 Florida. I only like white water, so I think
24 conceptually this project's exciting, the jobs
25 are good, and ecotourism for Florida is
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1 fantastic.
2 One of my concerns was, you've been doing
3 it --
4 Sorry?
5 Well, I'm very involved with the Olympics,
6 and we think that's very important for Florida.
7 In reviewing the notes from Cabinet Aides,
8 you were anticipating some $400,000 a year in
9 terms of receipts that you would -- would get.
10 So once the park was open, if it's -- if it's
11 going to cost -- or was it 400 million.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Million.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Four hundred million.
14 Well, sorry. You know, in Cabinet, we -- we
15 deal with three zeros at a time all the ti--
16 okay.
17 Four hundred million.
18 Does that anticipate the Olympics being a
19 part of that?
20 Because I know -- we called Ed Turanchik
21 yesterday -- we've been real involved in this.
22 And he said that no formal approvals have been
23 issued, and probably won't till August.
24 And what percentage would that be in terms
25 of the Olympics and generating that 400 million
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1 annually?
2 MR. RICH: Actually -- actually those
3 numbers have nothing to do with the Olympics.
4 Whether the Olympics come or not, this is what
5 we're anticipating.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Great answer.
7 MR. RICH: The numbers were derived from
8 information from the U.S. Forest Service and
9 Tennessee Valley Authority and their
10 evaluations and studies that they did on the
11 Ocoee River and the Gauley River and other
12 rivers, and we just extrapolated those numbers.
13 SECRETARY HARRIS: Fantastic.
14 Thanks.
15 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to move
17 Item 8.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Like to move it?
19 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yes.
20 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: For conceptual
22 approval.
23 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: There's a motion and a
25 second.
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1 I'm going to vote no, just to set the
2 record here. Because I don't think that the
3 plans of this project, the financing, the
4 equity, the local input merits a -- even a
5 conceptual approval.
6 I've not seen a -- I don't even know what a
7 conceptual approval means. But if the State's
8 going to do business on our land, I think it
9 ought to be -- we ought to have a pretty solid
10 deal before we go forward, even with giving you
11 some sense that it is appropriate.
12 So by saying no, I don't -- I want to make
13 it clear, and this is why I'm saying it
14 publicly, that it doesn't mean that this isn't
15 an intriguing idea, that y'all have every right
16 to pursue it.
17 But I just -- I don't see why we need to
18 give you conceptual approval for this for you
19 to get your business plan in place and get all
20 of the necessary parts worked out before we --
21 before we make any kind of commitment at all.
22 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor.
23 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
24 SECRETARY HARRIS: I have a question.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Can I ask a
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1 question?
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yeah. Sure.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Go ahead.
4 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: You say you
5 have all these people involved, like the
6 John Anderson architect.
7 Do you already have contracts with these
8 people, or is this just something that's --
9 that's out there? I mean, are there already --
10 are there already business agreements and
11 everything else?
12 I mean, is anybody here from John Anderson
13 architect or -- or Utilities, Incorporated, of
14 Florida? Are -- are you actually --
15 MR. RHODES: Well, with John Anderson
16 again, he was the designer of the Olympic area
17 in the Ocoee River. That was one of the main
18 reasons we brought him in. He's familiar with
19 doing something that would work for an Olympic
20 course. That was the main thing.
21 And plus his experience in building these
22 parks. He's built -- not man-made parks, but
23 man altered parks and rivers in other parts of
24 the country.
25 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: I guess my
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1 question is: Are -- are these partners, or are
2 these people that you're going to hire to --
3 MR. RHODES: These are people we would
4 hire.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Okay.
6 MR. RHODES: Absolutely.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
8 SECRETARY HARRIS: I guess -- I would like
9 to ask a couple of questions about what their
10 conceptual -- what they would plan to come back
11 with a conceptual project, what they need,
12 and -- and follow up on what the Governor
13 asked. Specifically, we haven't heard anything
14 about financing.
15 Why do you require our approval to move
16 forward at this point?
17 MR. RICH: The situation we're in when we
18 have had contact with potential financial
19 backers is that, again, they think it's a
20 wonderful idea, but until they get some sort of
21 level of comfort that we actually have a place
22 to build this, they are, like, well, come back
23 when you have more.
24 We can't even go forward with the
25 engineering, which is dreadfully expensive,
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1 hundreds of thousands of dollars, until we are
2 assured, or at least have some sort of
3 confidence that the State is at least willing
4 to consider using this site for this park so
5 that we can then come back and get the
6 commitment from them.
7 That's why we need the one year that we
8 will get all the information to you all,
9 because you will have then -- if you approve
10 this agenda item, puts forth some sort of a
11 commitment to us that we can take to the
12 finance people, and then come back and
13 report --
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: You --
15 MR. RICH: -- and have the financing in
16 place.
17 SECRETARY HARRIS: What seems difficult
18 based on that explanation is for to us grant
19 you conceptual approval to do all these things
20 that really will determine our vote, whether we
21 like the project or not, and you will spend
22 hundreds of thousands of dollars, and when you
23 come back, we -- we may not like the direction
24 at all.
25 I -- I guess that's what's so difficult for
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1 us right now in this preliminary stage.
2 MR. RICH: Well, that's correct. And,
3 again, we will be coming back once again to
4 revisit this issue. And if you at that point
5 in time do not like what you see or hear, you
6 always, of course, have the option of voting
7 against it.
8 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Exactly. That's
9 why --
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: So it's a question of
11 the -- what comes first, the chicken or the
12 egg.
13 MR. RICH: Correct.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Commissioner Gallagher says
15 the chicken, I say the egg. And we can have an
16 honest disagreement about that.
17 MR. RHODES: Excuse me. I was asked to say
18 something.
19 Now, regarding the 2012. One of the
20 reasons why is there -- there is a push on
21 this, again, it's a timeline. If this is to be
22 considered even as an option for the Olympic
23 committee, we're way behind. We should have
24 started this five years ago.
25 There is a point, if this thing has to be
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1 drug out to a point before somebody can
2 actually get a hard foot in the door, then we
3 will miss that Olympic timeline, and having
4 something available for something that they can
5 consider.
6 Now, the -- the people, the 2012, I have
7 met with them. They can't give a total
8 approval on any site at this point in time,
9 because they have several options, they have to
10 keep them open. They like our idea.
11 Of course, they'd like it if it was in Tampa.
12 But the -- but again, they can't pigeonhole
13 themselves into a point where they're locked
14 into this either.
15 So a lot of this has to do with the fact
16 that we're trying to get something done so that
17 if it is going to be used as a possible Olympic
18 venue, it's got to be up and running, or at
19 least in a serious design stage very quickly.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other questions?
21 There's a motion and a second.
22 All in favor, say aye.
23 THE CABINET: Aye.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: All opposed.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: No.
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1 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: No.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: The ayes have it.
3 Good luck.
4 MR. RHODES: Thank you.
5 MR. GREEN: Item 9, purchase agreement to
6 acquire 1432.8 acres in the Etoniah/Cross
7 Florida Greenway CARL Project.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: I'm sorry. What -- what
9 number are we on now?
10 MR. GREEN: Item 9.
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 9.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second on 9.
14 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
15 Without objection, it's approved.
16 MR. GREEN: Item 10, request to quitclaim
17 2.29 acres to Duval County.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
21 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
22 Without objection, it's approved.
23 MR. GREEN: Item 11, a disclaimer of
24 .01 acres of privately held lands --
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 11.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Point zero one acres, is
4 that what you just said?
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: It's --
6 MR. GREEN: Point zero one acres.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay. Is there a motion
8 and a second?
9 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Without objection, it's
11 approved.
12 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Big giveaway.
13 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: About the
14 size of this podium, Governor.
15 MR. GREEN: Item 12, a perpetual
16 nonexclusive easement containing .52 acres.
17 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
20 Without objection, it's approved.
21 MR. GREEN: Item 13, three option
22 agreements to acquire 663.1 acres in the
23 St. Joseph Bay Buffer CARL project.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
25 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
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1 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
2 Without objection, it's approved.
3 MR. GREEN: Item 14, an option agreement to
4 acquire 10.54 acres within the Washington Oaks
5 State Gardens.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
9 Without objection, it's approved.
10 MR. GREEN: Item 15, acceptance of an
11 assignment of an option agreement to acquire
12 8,840.9 acres with St. Joe Paper --
13 excuse me -- St. Joe Timberland CARL Projects,
14 designation of the Florida Fish and Wildlife
15 Conservation Commission as the managing agency,
16 and confirmation of the management policy
17 statement.
18 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 15.
19 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
20 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 16 is
23 acceptance of two assignments of option
24 agreements to acquire 356.1 acres in the
25 Perdido Pitcher Plant Prairie.
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1 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Motion.
2 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
3 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
5 Without objection, it's approved.
6 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 17, an
7 after-the-fact approval of an existing
8 three-year sublease to Ms. Hancock, and a new
9 sublease to Ms. Hancock --
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Hitchcock.
11 MR. GREEN: -- to ex-- Hitchcock,
12 I'm sorry -- to extend for additional
13 two years.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
15 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
16 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
18 Without objection, it's approved.
19 MR. GREEN: Item 18 is an exchange of
20 .23 acres of State-owned sovereign submerged
21 lands for 32 acres of privately held submerged
22 lands in cash payment of thirty -- $135,000.
23 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
24 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: So this --
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
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1 Someone want to just second, then we'll
2 have discussion.
3 You'll second?
4 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: I was just going to
5 ask a question.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Okay.
7 MR. GREEN: This is the --
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Now, they're not
9 asking for a marina, but there's a marina
10 coming; is that the idea?
11 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes.
12 MR. GREEN: That's correct. This item does
13 not include approval of -- of the docking
14 facility.
15 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, I guess, if
16 we want to wrap this all up into the same
17 issue, we probably could defer it till
18 September.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Well, I think this --
20 this --
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: This part's
22 different than --
23 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Okay.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: This is -- there is some
25 serious issues related to development of the
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1 hotel. And I think the hotel -- speak on
2 behalf of --
3 MR. GREEN: Jake Varn --
4 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- I think it has broad
5 support.
6 MR. VARN: Governor and members of the
7 Cabinet, having been present for the item
8 earlier this morning, we -- the -- the matter
9 before you does not involve the dock. It's a
10 land exchange.
11 There is, however, an application for a
12 dock pending before the Southwest Florida Water
13 Management District.
14 As a result of the action you took this
15 morning, we will amend that application and
16 eliminate the dock from the application so we
17 will not have the docks at this time.
18 We will -- we will simply proceed with
19 the -- with the land exchange and filling the
20 area involved in the land exchange, and we will
21 put off until all these manatee issues and all
22 are resolved with the other people until a
23 later date.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you very much.
25 Is there a second?
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1 SECRETARY HARRIS: Second.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
3 There's a motion and a second.
4 Without objection, it approved.
5 Thank you.
6 MR. GREEN: Okay. Substitute Item --
7 Second Substitute Item 20 is a 50-year lease to
8 the Board of Regents for the Florida State
9 Ringling Center.
10 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on 20.
11 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: Second.
13 Katherine, do you have any questions?
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: No. As it's written
15 now.
16 I do want to thank -- sorry.
17 I do want to thank Eva Armstrong for her
18 extraordinary leadership in this arena. You've
19 worked really hard. And we've wanted to
20 preserve that long-term integrity of the
21 museum, so I really want to thank her. She's
22 done a great job.
23 Thank you.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
25 Without objection, it's approved.
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1 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to
2 defer 21.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
4 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Defer 21.
5 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Defer 21?
6 Second.
7 Motion.
8 Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and --
10 Motion to defer and a second.
11 Without objection, it's deferred.
12 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 22, the
13 settlement agreement in the case of
14 John Henry Blackburn versus the West Coast
15 Navigation District and the Board.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion.
17 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Second.
18 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded.
19 Without objection, it's approved.
20 MR. GREEN: Substitute Item 25 is the
21 Cedar -- City of Miami/Dinner Key Boatyard
22 Lease and Disclaimer.
23 Governor, while we've been through the rest
24 of the agenda, Eva's been out working on some
25 last minute discussions with the City.
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1 And I think she needs to come up and talk
2 about some changes they want to make to how
3 they're going to make payment.
4 Eva.
5 I think.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I'd like to
7 maybe -- somebody, when they're explaining
8 this, can tell me how -- how -- why we
9 wouldn't -- or why we would -- whichever side
10 you want to take, have a -- a totally seabound
11 ownership by the City; and in between that and
12 the land owned by the City, a leased area.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: All right. I'm sure
14 there'll be someone that'll be able to answer
15 that question.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: I think we ought
17 to fix something in that. I don't know exactly
18 what or how. But something just ought to be
19 fixed.
20 MR. GREEN: Governor, Carlos Gimenez,
21 with -- with the City, would like to speak.
22 GOVERNOR BUSH: Welcome, Carlos.
23 You thought City of Miami Commission
24 meetings were fun.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: They're either --
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1 they're still worse than this, I guarantee you.
2 MR. GIMENEZ: Actually, there are some
3 parts of this that I kind of like. I mean, I
4 like pass, everything goes pretty -- pretty
5 smoothly.
6 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Okay, Joe.
7 MR. GIMENEZ: Good afternoon, Governor Bush
8 and members of the Cabinet.
9 We're here on behalf of the City of Miami.
10 My name is Carlos Gimenez. I'm the City
11 Manager for the City of Miami.
12 And with me today are Dianne Johnson, with
13 the Department of Real Estate and Economic
14 Development; Lori Billberry, Director of our
15 Asset Manage-- Management; and Ilene Temchin,
16 Assistant City Attorney.
17 We are joined by Felix Lima, Vice President
18 of Grove Harbor Marina and Caribbean
19 Marketplace, the City's partner in this
20 project; Alan Lima; Julio Rebull, also of
21 Grove Harbor; and Fausto Gomez of Gomez, Parker
22 & Associates, also representing Grove Harbor.
23 Mayor Joe Carollo had hoped to be with us
24 here today, but his schedule would not permit
25 it. To compensate, he has sent a letter by fax
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1 to each of you to express his support of this
2 project.
3 I have the original copies with me, and
4 will distribute them with your permission.
5 We'd like to thank the staff of the
6 Department of Environmental Protection and your
7 own Aides for working with us on this effort.
8 We are very grateful for the opportunity you
9 had given us to put to like issues before you
10 today regarding the use of the submerged lands
11 at this site.
12 The problems arise in part from a
13 misidentification of their property boundaries
14 dating back to the 1940s. We believe the use
15 of these lands for a recreational marina not
16 only has clear public benefit, but the loss of
17 this use, if we are ultimately unsuccessful,
18 will result in significant financial hardship
19 to the City.
20 We look forward to your support on this
21 issue.
22 Ms. Dianne Johnson is here to -- to answer
23 any questions and to make a presentation if you
24 so desire.
25 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you.
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1 MS. JOHNSON: Good morning, and thank you.
2 Rather than go through a lengthy
3 presentation, I think the confusion is
4 warranted. This is a rather confusing area
5 that we are dealing with.
6 To orient you a little bit, the project is
7 in Coconut Grove, some of you may know, in an
8 area known as Dinner Key. It was formerly an
9 island joined to the mainland.
10 It lies -- the property lies between some
11 familiar landmarks to you, we hope:
12 Monty's Restaurant and the Miami City Hall.
13 There are three distinct areas that are the
14 subject of this request today. The -- you have
15 a map before you, I trust, and there's a
16 duplicate of it in front of you. The area
17 outlined in green is a disclaimer area. This
18 is an area that is City-owned upland that was
19 filled many, many years ago. And pursuant to
20 the Butler Act, we are requesting the
21 disclaimer.
22 Recently this area was modified with some
23 additional bulkhead and riprap.
24 The confusing area to many of us is the
25 area that is outlined in pink, which I refer to
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1 as the lease area. This is an area that the
2 City of Miami, the State, Miami-Dade County,
3 and everyone, figured the City of Miami owned
4 until last year.
5 It was only doing some title work that we
6 discovered that the City did not, in fact, own
7 it, and that it is State-owned submerged lands.
8 This is the area that are we (sic) seeking a
9 lease pursuant to your administrative rules.
10 The last area is the blue area, which I
11 refer to as a waiver area. It is land that is,
12 indeed, owned by the City of Miami, and we were
13 given a conveyance by this Board back in 1949
14 for that particular property.
15 That area is subject to a use restriction
16 solely for public purposes, including municipal
17 purposes. So our request does include requests
18 for a waiver of that restriction.
19 As our City Manager has stated, and as is
20 indicated in your packages, we find that this
21 project does meet the test of public interest,
22 and economic hardship for the City of Miami.
23 If I've answered your questions, we could
24 entertain, you know, anything else that you may
25 ask, or I could go on in detail and explain to
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1 you why we feel that it meets the public
2 interest or the economic hardship tests.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any questions?
4 SECRETARY HARRIS: Governor.
5 GOVERNOR BUSH: Katherine.
6 SECRETARY HARRIS: Surprise.
7 Are there any -- do you know how the
8 manatee zones are doing in Miami-Dade County?
9 MS. JOHNSON: Yes.
10 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you for --
11 MS. JOHNSON: They're doing --
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- asking that.
13 MS. JOHNSON: They're doing very well.
14 Miami-Dade County is one of the counties
15 that has a Manatee Protection Plan that is in
16 place, that is endorsed by some of the
17 organizations you've heard from today.
18 And this particular area of Dinner Key is
19 an area where marina use and growth is allowed
20 within the adopted plan.
21 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
22 You're an example for the rest of the
23 state. I hope they'll take note.
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: So --
25 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
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1 MS. JOHNSON: So do we.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just -- just as an
3 aside, one of the items that was deferred was a
4 marina that was going to be built north of here
5 that was not part of the protection zone, and
6 may not have received the same support that
7 this one -- this one may.
8 Out of curiosity, is the Save the Manatee
9 Club supportive of this?
10 MS. JOHNSON: When we were here during the
11 Cabinet Aides meeting, we did have the
12 opportunity to discuss with them, and they had
13 no objection.
14 SECRETARY HARRIS: Kirby, have -- has
15 the -- has it been approved by the Bureau of
16 Protected Species?
17 MR. GREEN: Yes, it has.
18 SECRETARY HARRIS: Thank you.
19 MR. GREEN: Eva, you have some last minute
20 details?
21 MS. ARMSTRONG: There were two changes made
22 to the item in front of you today based on
23 requests from the City of Miami.
24 One was in the item we provided -- we
25 required them to provide an independent audit
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1 on --
2 (Secretary Harris exited the room.)
3 MS. ARMSTRONG: -- top of the one that
4 Grove Harbor is required to submit each year.
5 And the City asked that we just take the
6 Grove Harbor audit to calculate both the waiver
7 amount that we're going to be -- the amount
8 we're going to be getting for the waiver, and
9 for wet slip numbers.
10 And we agreed to that, rather than having
11 them do another audit on top of it.
12 GOVERNOR BUSH: But it's an independent
13 audit.
14 MS. ARMSTRONG: The Grove Harbor audit --
15 they do one that's independent. Rather than
16 also having the City do an audit --
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: I understand.
18 MS. ARMSTRONG: -- an independent audit.
19 And then additionally, we had in the waiver
20 that the payment -- up-front payment each year
21 would start in February of the next year, in
22 other words, February of '01. They wanted a
23 delay of a couple months.
24 We delayed to July 1st, which gives us the
25 ability to start it on our fiscal year. So it
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1 actually may good administrative sense.
2 So those are the two changes that are
3 recommended to the item as it is in front of
4 you.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion with a D--
6 on DEP as amended and recommended.
7 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
8 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
9 GOVERNOR BUSH: Any other discussion?
10 Moved and seconded.
11 Without objection, it's approved.
12 MS. JOHNSON: Thank you.
13 GOVERNOR BUSH: Thank you all.
14 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion to
15 withdraw 26.
16 MR. GREEN: Item 26, withdrawal.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Second.
19 GOVERNOR BUSH: Moved and seconded to
20 withdraw.
21 Without objection, it's approved.
22 (The Board of Trustees of the Internal
23 Improvement Trust Fund Agenda was concluded.)
24
25
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1 MR. GREEN: Governor, we have one more
2 item.
3 GOVERNOR BUSH: Yes, we do.
4 MR. GREEN: This is -- just to explain a
5 little bit about it.
6 This past legislative session, the
7 Department of Agriculture Communi-- Consumer
8 Services was -- was authorized to act as staff
9 for the Trustees for aquaculture leases and
10 activities.
11 This is the first item that they will bring
12 before you as -- as your representative, your
13 staff on these issues.
14 Mark Berrigan is their staff person to make
15 a presentation.
16 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Can we just move
17 to approve it?
18 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: Well, he's
19 practiced all day on his speech.
20 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Only -- only you
21 would say that.
22 ATTORNEY GENERAL BUTTERWORTH: Well, I'm
23 sure the Secretary of State has a question.
24 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Yeah. Listen, I'm
25 trying to get us out of here before we have any
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1 questions from next -- from your right.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: We have to wait -- we have
3 to wait till Katherine gets back just -- for
4 her to ask a question.
5 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Please.
6 GOVERNOR BUSH: Go ahead. This is --
7 MR. BERRIGAN: Governor --
8 GOVERNOR BUSH: -- just the way it is.
9 MR. BERRIGAN: -- members of the Cabinet,
10 my name is Mark Berrigan.
11 I'm representing the Division of
12 Aquaculture within the Department of
13 Agriculture and Consumer Services.
14 This item seeks delegation of authority
15 from the Board of Trustees to the
16 Commissioner of Agriculture to allow the
17 Department to act as staff to the Board and
18 take final agency action on actions related to
19 aquaculture on sovereignty submerged lands.
20 The request is consistent with the
21 legislative intent that the Department
22 administer aquaculture leases and other
23 activities related to aquaculture on sovereign
24 lands.
25 It essentially transfers the same specific
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1 delegation from the Department of Environmental
2 Protection to the Department of Agriculture.
3 The action completes efforts that were
4 initiated a number of years ago to bring all
5 aspects of aquaculture into a single place and
6 into a single agency.
7 And it places aquaculture among Florida's
8 other agri-businesses.
9 By placing the authority to --
10 (Secretary Harris entered the room.)
11 MR. BERRIGAN: -- manage aquaculture on
12 sovereign submerged lands within the
13 Department of Agriculture and Consumer
14 Services, the Board will complete the final
15 piece of a process that will be critical to the
16 development of aquaculture in Florida.
17 GOVERNOR BUSH: Secretary Harris, do you
18 have a question?
19 SECRETARY HARRIS: No.
20 I think it's a great idea.
21 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: You got those
22 manatees all taken care of where they're
23 growing all these shellfish?
24 GOVERNOR BUSH: I hope so. I hope so.
25 COMMISSIONER GALLAGHER: Motion on the
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1 item.
2 GOVERNOR BUSH: Is there a second?
3 Moved and seconded.
4 Without objection, it's approved.
5 Thank you very much for your patience.
6 MR. BERRIGAN: Thank you.
7 COMMISSIONER CRAWFORD: He waited all day.
8 (The Department of Agriculture and
9 Consumer Services Agenda was concluded.)
10 * * *
11 (The Cabinet meeting was concluded at
12 12:52 p.m.)
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220
July 25, 2000
1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5 STATE OF FLORIDA:
6 COUNTY OF LEON:
7 I, LAURIE L. GILBERT, do hereby certify that
8 the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the
9 time and place therein designated; that my shorthand
10 notes were thereafter translated; and the foregoing
11 pages numbered 86 through 219 are a true and correct
12 record of the aforesaid proceedings.
13 I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative,
14 employee, attorney or counsel of any of the parties,
15 nor relative or employee of such attorney or counsel,
16 or financially interested in the foregoing action.
17 DATED THIS 7TH day of AUGUST, 2000.
18
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20
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23
LAURIE L. GILBERT, RPR, CCR, CRR, RMR
24 100 Salem Court
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
25 850/878-2221
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